Patriots Catch-22 12/3: 3 Up/Down vs. Giants, Drake Maye, Playoff Picture

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Barth.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Blazarre and Lazarn. Hello, everybody nailed it, joined us always
buy our bark Gable.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
The Giants on paper have a pass rush that you
should fear. You know, Abdul Carter, Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence
rushing in the middle. It's a good group. They have
widely underperformed and that's why they're head coaching. Their defensive
coordinator no longer have jobs. I would say that's the
main reason they have the second highest payroll in the

(00:43):
NFL on defense, including a third overall pick Rookie and
Abdul Carter all invested in their defense, Bibodeaux, Carter, Burns, Lawrence,
and with that group they are twenty third in pressure rate.
One of the keys to this game, Alex, was how

(01:03):
well the Patriots offensive line played against this Giant's pass rush.
Really just across the board, a really good game, and
we're going to get to all of that here in
a second when we break down this win over the Giants.
A really impressive win I thought from the Patriots and
I have some thoughts on that. I'm going to try

(01:23):
my best to not upset the entire state of Colorado today.
I don't know if I'm going to be able to
accomplish that, even with my opening take of the day
might upset some of those people. So if you're watching Hello, Welcome,
you can hear some more of that here today. But
it's Evan Lazarre, it's Alex Barth, it's Alex behind the glass.

(01:44):
We are going to be rolling with you guys here
for the next couple hours. No game to preview Barth
for next week, so we'll definitely have some more listener involvement,
I think in today's show here in the second hour.
But we'll start with Patriots, will start with paid giants
breaking down this game, and I'll just start with this.

(02:05):
You know, I have been very tried to be very
reluctant about crowding the Patriots too early and really crowding them, frankly,
before they have truly accomplished anything like being the number
one seed in week thirteen doesn't throw you any parades,
right like that. That's not the end goal here for
any team in the NFL. With that being said, though,

(02:29):
the Patriots played a couple of weeks ago on Thursday
Night Football. They played this week on Monday Night Football.
So I've had an opportunity to watch a lot of
the league the last two or three weeks and a
lot of the AFC, and coming off this game against
the Giants, I feel pretty confident, pretty comfortable saying that

(02:50):
I think the Patriots are the best team in the conference.
I think the Patriots the best team in the AFC.
I think that they should be the favorite, the front
runner to represent the AFC in the Super And I
think the main reason why I feel so strongly about
that is that, of course the MVP at quarterback. But

(03:10):
the second thing is in what I just came away
so impressed by this game, in particular, was the energy
that they played with on Monday Night. I did not
think they had enough gas in the tank to play
the way they did in the first half and to
fly around the field like that and to hit like that, Like,
when's the last time you saw a modern team, you know,

(03:33):
a team in the twenty twenties come out and lay
the wood on a team like the Patriots did on
Monday Night against the Giants. Then they don't you don't
play like that anymore. A lot of that's because it's
been legislated out of the league. But the Patriots did
it right on the line. They were clean for most
of it, with a lot of those hits, and they

(03:55):
came out with a energy, with a physical with an
aggressiveness that you just don't necessarily see a whole lot
in the NFL anymore. So when you put that sort
of aspect to it, which of course a lot of
that is related to the head coach and Mike Vrabel
and his attitude and his energy, and then you add

(04:16):
in a quarterback playing at an MVP level. That is
a really, really good formula to have. And the last
thing I'll just say to open it up this team,
this team's got it like they've got some magic going.
And the last thing that I kind of wanted to

(04:36):
see from the Patriots because I'm not a big schedule guy,
because I don't think you win ten straight games in
the NFL by accident. Well, I don't care who you're playing, No, No,
it's the one last thing. The thing that really I
wanted to see is what happened when the injury started
to pile up, and was this team. And granted it's

(04:57):
only been one game, but was his team going to
be able to overcome injuries to frontline players at key
positions like left tackle, like your best defensive player, arguably
in Milton Williams, And to put that performance on tape
against the Giants without Milton Williams, without Will Campbell, without

(05:17):
Jared Wilson, without Kiris Tanga like that is that was
really where I was questioning them, is whether they going
to have enough layers of deck behind that, And they
went out there and proved it to me. So this
is this is it, Like I think the Patriots, you
should all out there, all Patriots fans, all out there,
should feel like you have a real chance here to

(05:40):
make a run out of Super Bowl. This is not
fluky anymore. This is the real thing.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
I'll just say this on the schedule thing, and that's
a that's a hell of a statement. I don't necessarily disagree.
That's a hell of a statement. I think when it
there's two things with the easy schedule to me, because
it is it has been objectively easy, like they have
not played they played mostly bad teams, but when they've
played bad teams, and this is where this game comes

(06:05):
into it. You know, you look at what the Broncos did.
I don't know how much your analysis about the Patriots
trus the rest of the league goes into that Sunday
night game. But you look at the Broncos and yeah,
they're winning a lot, but they're kind of going toe
to toe with a lot of these bad day commanders.
Team's not in a good way right now. I know
they were good last year, they got a lot of injuries.

(06:26):
They're not a good way right now. And that thing
went down to the final play of overtime for them
to win that. The Patriots have had a week schedule,
but they're blowing doors against whatever you want to call
the Panthers. I don't know if the Panthers are good
or bad. It depends on the week you get them, right.
But Saints Titans, Browns, and it had gotten a little
closer recently. The Falcons game obviously fell close than it
needed to be. That Bengals game fell closer than it

(06:47):
needed to be. I said this on Sunday Kickoff, and
I kind of said it as a joke, and it
got a reaction that it maybe wasn't so tongue in cheek.
But I was like, aren't they kind of due for
a blowout? Like if they really are at that level,
and what do we get? I would I know it
ended up as like a close three score game, but
I'd qualify that game as a blowout. So I think

(07:09):
there's that element of it with the schedule that you
can only play who's on your schedule. And we know
from the last two years what it looks like when
a bad team plays a good team, and they flipped
the script on that, and it's they're not eking out
these wins. They're winning these games convincingly, which is what
you want to see.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's not college football.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Style points don't matter, there is no committee, you're not
trying to impress. But and we can get to the
style points of this game in a little bit, because
I do have a take on that. The other thing
about the easy schedule, when we went back and did
the schedule predictions at the beginning of the year and
people had ten, eleven, twelve wins, whatever, shout out of Taylor,
Kyle's thirteen wins. A Taylor is a big old victory
lap coming. It's gonna make some of my victory laps

(07:50):
look like nothing.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
I hope he got a little cold feet about it, though.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, you got to stick by your take. Yeah, that's
if the Felder has taught me that time and time again.
You gotta stick by a tape.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
He put it out there and they got a lot
of we don't need to make this about Taylor.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
But the point being, no, I want to give him flowers.
But the point being, like, so I had them at
nine wins, and I think I remember saying, like there
were eleven games on their schedule they should win. But
consistency in the NFL, You guys, if you've listened to
the show for a long time, you know I Consistency
is my thing. That's always what it comes down into me.
That's what separates the good teams from the great teams.

(08:26):
You consistent and all right, well, you know it's a
young team, there's a lot of new pieces. Okay, there's
eleven games they should win, but like, realistically, over the
course of the season, you would think, okay, they're gonna
sleep walk into one of these They're just gonna have
one game where they're sloppy and they're out of it.
And look, they still have four games left, So who's
to say that that's not to come. You could argue

(08:46):
they had one at the beginning of the year against
the Steelers, which was a game that some people had
as they should win. At the beginning of the year.
The Raiders went as well, But I just chalked that
up to Week one being weird. We've learned anything the
last two years. Don't buy into anything that happens week one.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
A lot about that Raiders loss that happened in the
very first week of the season with the brand new coaching.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Staff and hearing a lot about that Raiders and from Broncos.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Oh and like like thirty five new players on the
roster and a brand new coaching stugg just in week
one of the season. And then oh, by the way,
the Broncos on Thursday Night football barely beat the Raiders
in one of the ugliest games of the season. Yeah, anyways,
keep going.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
But my point being, like, well, first of all, whatever
I think is going to have I'm just going against
my gut instinct week one next year across the board.
But yeah, part of it, what makes it so impressive
is is, Okay, they're beating bad teams, but a lot
of teams play stretches of bad teams, and it's it's
the NFL. You're kind of supposed to slip up here

(09:46):
and there, and good teams have bad games. It happens
to win ten in a row. This is now I
think the second longest winning streak in franchise history, or
tied for third.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, depending on how you do winning st like if
you see in sason, like over two seasons, it's kind
of difficult. I think that might.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
But it's like, you're not regardless of who they're playing.
This is my final point. Then I'll go back to you.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
No, it's fine regardless of who they're playing.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
This kind of sustained success doesn't happen in the NFL.
That's it's kind of structured against that. So they deserve
credit for that regardless of the opponent.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing in terms of all
that and the schedule, because you asked me like maybe
this is based off the rest of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
They tied for the third longest winning streak and franchise history.
It is the longest without a guy named Tom Brady
playing one. Yeah, that makes sense obviously sixteen game one
and then they won twelve in a row.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh three, Yeah, so I think it's twofold one. I
had a tiny bit, and I know it sounds crazy
at two and eleven, but I had a tiny bit
of respect for the Giants because they just blown so
many big leads in games that they should have won.
And the last three weeks leading into this game, the

(11:09):
Giants were in three one score games. Like this is
a Giants team that was in overtime against Detroit the
week before.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Again, it's it's even these bad teams sometimes play close games. Yeah,
it was Detroit was one score game.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Three good teams that they were in one score games against,
and they should have won in some of the instances.
You know that the kind of choked in a lot
of those games. So I looked at the Giants, I
looked at the Patriots, and this kind of goes back
to the whole mindset thing. The Patriots were literally and
figuratively limping into this bye week. They had Will Campbell

(11:51):
on injured reserve, Milton Williams on injured reserve, a bunch
of dudes inactive that were ruled out with injuries. I
think what three or four, right, if you count Schooler
Wilson School or Tonga, Harold Landry has a knee.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
You count school what Why wouldn't you count schooler?

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, we'll get to that. Tonga Landry has a knee
issue that has clearly been related to that injury scare
in Week six in New Orleans, and he hasn't been
the same since. You know, it's clearly banged up. Guys
are are banged up. They've been going at this every
single week really since July, if you're being honest about it.

(12:30):
I think the last know, other than the mini bye
week after the Thursday night game, which is after a
Thursday night game on a short week like Labor Day weekend,
is probably the last time that they really had a
break from football. And they looked like a team that
was limping into their bye week. And usually you don't

(12:50):
see a team like that capable of blowing doors like
that's not usually a formula when you have a bunch
of guys hurt and you're tired and you're worn down
after thirteen straight game like you don't normally then go
out and have a thirty to seven lead at halftime
like that, Right, that's not normally a formula for success.
So I think a lot of people on both sides

(13:12):
Giants and Patriots. Media were picking either a one score
game or even some people were taking the Giants in
this game on Monday night. So I don't think that
this was you know, as much as we can look
at the Giants record and say that they stink, I
don't think this was a layup that the Patriots were
going to blow doors on Monday night. I think a
lot of people thought that this was going to be

(13:33):
a tighter game than it may be, like closer to
what happened in Cincinnati, right where it's kind of a
one score game, but the Patriots kind of had control
at the end of the game, that sort of thing.
And the other thing is, and I don't, you know,
want to completely rail on all the other teams like
I did yesterday. But the other thing is is that
I just look around the AFC and I see a

(13:55):
lot of teams that also have some flaws like the Patriot.
It's that could be fatal or could not be fatal.
You know. I look at the Denver Broncos and I
see a team that offensively is average, you know, an
act they have a great defense, but they're an average offense.
You know, their thirteenth in scoring bo Nicks's twentieth in QBR. Like,

(14:16):
they're not a great offense right now. They don't have
a great running game. They don't have great passing game either.
I look at the Indianapolis Colts now suddenly kind of
in a dogfight for their division with the Jacksonville Jaguars
and with the Houston Texans. The Colts have a quarterback
who has a broken fibula and is going to play
through it. So as much as their run first operation,

(14:40):
you know, their quarterback is compromised at this point. And
he's already a guy in Daniel Jones that was doing
the whole Sam Darnold reclamation project thing to begin with,
So he was probably going to turn back into Daniel
Jones at some point anyways, just like Donald did last year,
and now he's hurt. I look at an AFC field
right now. Buffalo is the seventh seed in the AFC.

(15:04):
Kansas City and Cincinnati aren't in the playoffs if they
started today. Baltimore's in but limping, and I don't think
Lamar Jackson looks exactly the way that he has prior
to all these injuries that he's accumulated this year. So
you look at all these different things and all these
different factors, and I'm like, all these teams are a

(15:26):
little bit flawed. There probably isn't an elite team in
the conference this year. So which team's flaws can you
live with? And looking at the Patriots, you know their
flaws right now are their run defense is faltered a
little bit here, their pass rush is okay, mediocre probably
is the best way to put that. And they're inconsistent

(15:50):
in the red zone offensively. Those are their flaws. But
those flaws, in some ways, and we'll get to it,
are fixable. I don't. You can't fix Daniel Jones's fibula.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
You're right, and not before the playoffs start, and you can't,
you know, Daniel, you know the Broncos offense and bo
Nicks is going to be, you know, kind of a
sidecard to their defense.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
If their defense carries them, their defense carries them. But
that's gonna be how that team wins in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
There's been all these questions about like this Patriots versus
the twenty twenty one Patriots, and okay, that team started hot,
young quarterback came out of the bye, fell apart, turned
out to be fools. Gold, Aren't the Broncos more of
the twenty twenty one Patriots than this Patriots team is.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
A little bit, I don't know exactly, you know what
comparison the Broncos are. I just look at the Broncos
as a team to me that has a great defense
and has a average at best offense. And I guess
where I'm getting at with the Broncos is like, I
don't know if you can fully win with that formula

(16:58):
anymore in the NFL. I think you do need to
have I don't know if you need to have like
a Hall of Fame quarterback, but I think you need
to have a good quarterback in this league to win.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
You have a good quarterback. I don't think you have
a great quarterback especial if you have a run game, you.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Can win, right But they don't have a running game.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
But they don't. That's okay, That's I'm just saying big picture,
Like if.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
You're the Eagles and you you built it that way,
in theory, you could do that. But I think the
Eagles are kind of an exception, not the rule, because
the Eagles were so loaded around Jalen Hurts like that,
that's two superstar receivers, a superstar running back, a great
offensive line, like that's not the Denver Broncos, right, And
so I I just think that all these things kind

(17:38):
of point to the Patriots. Yes, maybe being in a
crop of AFC teams that are not juggernauts that are
this isn't like the prime Chiefs or the prime Patriots
or you know, one of those years where you're right,
I think that out of all the teams, the Patriots
look the best. And and my take has always been
the same about in terms of, like you know, we

(17:59):
want to get into like who do you fear in
the AFC or who do you not want to play
in the AFC? My take has always been the same
is that my biggest concern would be one of these
MVP caliber quarterbacks Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes. Like
one of these guys figures it out at the right time,

(18:20):
right and they flip a switch in January, just like
some of the Patriots teams at the end with Brady
did you know twenty eighteen? Is always the one I
point to is that that would be my biggest fear.
Wouldn't be playing Daniel Jones or bon Nicks or Trevor Lawrence,
you know, or whatever. My biggest fear would be Josh
Allen gets hot, Josh Allen has an MVP performance and

(18:44):
there's nothing you can do, and it's divisional round weekend
and you just you get bounced by a quarterback that
scores six total touchdowns and throws for three hundred and
fifty yards, right, or you know, Mahomes and the Chiefs
figure it out, or Lamar squeaks in or Joe Burrow
squeaks in to the playoffs and and they get hot
at the end of the year. Let's not forget they
still have a month of the season to go.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
So that's the thing, Like if you're Patriots fan, you're
you're rooting against some of these teams, making it like
if Buffalo lost the Steelers, I think they'd be out today.
They're seven seeds.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, they're currently the seventh seed. And you know, I
know that the age doesn't exactly line up, but just
from an analogy standpoint, you know, we covered the twenty
eighteen team and that team was dead to rights after
the Miami miracle, like that team was buried. They had
lost to Pittsburgh and then they lost to Miami on
the Miami Miracle, and it.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Was well, they weren't dead. They were still going to
make the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, but they were. They were dead to rights, yeah,
they and the feeling it was that this was it
was over and they just were great. They they captured
greatness one more time and they went on a run.
And I don't know why any of those other teams
with those elite quarters couldn't do the same thing.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
They have elite quarterbacks, but they don't have the guy.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's fair. That's fair. All right, Let's get to the good,
the bad, and the stuff that gets you beat. Not
a whole lot on the negatives from this game, So
a lot of good to discuss here from Monday night.
Let's start with the quarterback. Let's start with Drake May.
You know, I thought that he had a little bit
of a down performance in Cincinnati. I think we all did,

(20:25):
you know, especially early, you know, didn't start very well
this game. You know, I think what stands out to
me about all of it with Drake May is, especially
against you know, some of these defenses that aren't quite
as good watching how in command he is of the
offense at this point, is really cool to see. It
does looks easy. It doesn't look like he's, you know,

(20:47):
struggling to find open receivers or struggling with things, you know,
in terms of reads and and all that different type
of stuff. And he's just distributing the football at a
really efficient and high level. And they just he knows
where the matchups are, he knows where the openings are
going to be in the coverage, he's getting through progressions

(21:08):
like it's just a complete command of this offense and
zero turnover worthy plays in this game. So yeah, he
didn't put the ball at Harm's way. He made a
couple again like he does every single week, a couple
of really high level throws. This was just Drake May
in the zone, like he was just in complete command
in this game. And I thought he was for the

(21:30):
most part. We'll get to some of the nippicks in
the red zone, but for the most part, I thought
he was terrific.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, the big thing that stood out to me, and
I'll go back to something we talked about when Drake
May was on that heater at the beginning of the year,
and I don't know if you remember I gave that
take that was like I can't wait till we get
to the point where Drake May has a big game
and it's not news, right, And I compared her to
you know, if Tom Brady had thrown for two hundred
eighty yards and two touchdowns against a bad Giants team,

(21:57):
we wouldn't have come in here and be like, Wow,
that's tom Brady, he's got it going on. I would
have been like, that's that's what he does. Yeah, it's
tom Brady. Are we there with Drake May?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Like we're getting there.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
That's that's Drake May. At this point, I think it's
expectation and that's not to diminish what he did. He
played well, but we're kind of expecting him to play
like that now. The no turnover worthy he plays certainly
is nice. The big thing that stood out to me
though eight different players targeted, Yeah, all caught at least one,
past seven caught at least two. Nobody caught more than four.
He was spreading that thing around. He got everybody involved.

(22:30):
He forced the defense to defend every blade of grass.
That can be a nightmare for a defense when all
five guys in the pattern are a whip and at
any given time. That was my big Drake may takeaway
from this game was how well he spread the ball.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Out and that that's always an indication to me that
a guy's feeling it and that he's running the offense.
Like Josh McDaniels' offense. Is that kind of offense you
throw to the open guy. I know it's cliche, but
that's really the truth. And all of it is about,
you know, formationally, in spacing wise, like how can we
create favorable matchups for our playmakers and let's find those

(23:04):
matchups and hunt those matchups. And so that could mean
that the play and the read takes you to Kyle
Williams on a touchdown, or that could mean that, you know,
they ran on the opening drive, they ran host Duke,
they put Stefon Diggs inside, they got him on a linebacker,
and Drake Maye took it for thirteen yards. It wasn't
the most sophisticated throw of all time, it wasn't the

(23:25):
best throw he's ever made, but it was just easy,
conventional offense. And this team's being able to do that,
I think is the biggest difference between the offense that
we've watched the last couple of years and the offense
that we've watched this year is that they're they're winning
in the traditional drop back game where it doesn't have

(23:45):
to be you know, pulling teeth. They're not in long
down in distance a lot, and they're not having to
like do this smoke and mirrors thing where everything is
just kind of you know, disguised and you know they're
motioning or they're doing different trick plays or whatever. That
was a little bit more not all the time, but
like that to me was a little bit more what
was going on in twenty twenty one was that it

(24:08):
was a lot of scheme. You know, the scheme was
really doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this offense.
It just feels like they're able to run conventional traditional
Josh McDaniels, staples and just win, you know, whether it's
the receivers winning or Drake May winning or Bowl. So
that that's been really good to see continuing and just

(24:29):
you know, to kind of segue this into this next point,
I don't think that they necessarily did anything that they
haven't been doing all year to manage the offensive line.
I thought that that was something that we might see,
but this wasn't like a quick game special like this Yeah,
they ran the offense and they were able to do so. Now,
Drake May had his second fastest time to release of

(24:52):
the season in this game. So he did a really
nice job. And I think this is another you know,
feather in his cap for this game. I thought that
his kind of just like mindset or you know, internal
clock in the pocket was really good in this game. Yeah,
and I think he knew, you know, they have two
really good edge rushers. I can't sit here and hold

(25:13):
the ball all game long. And I thought that his
poise and sort of him managing the rush as a
quarterback was really really good in this game, which to
me is is sort of next level type of stuff,
Like that's like the Brady stuff where it's like, all right,
this is you know, we got a backup left tackle.
They have these two really good edge rushers. I'm not

(25:33):
gonna sit here all day and hold the ball, and
they'll be able to kind of help out your guys
that way. Speaking of that, the offensive line got to
give them flowers. Got to give flowers to Vederian low
and Ben Brown. Started off a little slow for Vederian Lowe.
I had three hurries allowed early on in this game.
Two to Carter, one to Burns, but then really from

(25:55):
like the middle of the second quarter on, he was
clean the whole rest of the way. Really good performance
from him. You know, Ben Brown got called for the
hold on Carter. You know, Carter rushed over him on
one play and he got called for a hold. But
other than that, I thought that he was really solid
in this game as well. They had these guys ready
to play, and that's another testament to McDaniels, to Doug Moron,

(26:19):
to Coog's, to Jason Hotling, the offensive line coaches. You know,
those guys did a great job getting Vederian Lowe and
Ben Brown ready to play, ready to go. Ben Brown
is is quickly turning into this Patriots version of Ted Carris.
Like he he's a starting caliber player, I think maybe
on the interior, but he's probably best as like a

(26:42):
super sub, you know, as a sixth offensive lineman. And
that's an extremely Now Ted has gone on to be
a full time starter and be a really good player
in Miami and Cincinnati. But for now, like for Ben Brown,
that's a really valuable piece to have. You know, I
don't know how long Jared Wilson's to be out, but
it doesn't sound like it's going to be as long

(27:02):
as Will Campbell, so he's going to come back. But
to have a guy like Ben Brown that can spot
start for two, three, four games and it doesn't really
have a huge drop off. Not every team has backup
interior play like that in the league. So he's been
really solid.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
No, he's been important player for them. The Ted Kerris
comparison is apt and he I believe he's on a
one year deal right or knows he's still an RFA,
Like he's somebody who's probably gonna get a chance to
go somewhere and start in the future, maybe here, you know,
if they be okay, he's a left guard, you move
Jared Wilson inside, maybe somewhere else. But he's been good.
Vedarian Low stepped up again. I think it helps that

(27:40):
the right side is in better shape than it's been.
He is a ERFA by the way, Ben Brown, so
he can be back next year.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
No, those guys deserve a ton of credit for coming
up the way they did. Like you said, it's one
game they're gonna have to do it against you know,
Buffalo pass Rush next week. That's gonna take things to
another level. But yeah, I get to the end of
that game and I I you know, going through my takeaways,
and I like almost forgot to put the offensive line
because they were what you want the offensive line to be,
out of site, out of mind, down two starters, the

(28:09):
third guy hurt. You're not expecting them to be out
of site. You're expecting that to be a talking point.
And they played a very clean game.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, they were really uh, they were really solid in
this game. I thought they saw some pressures pretty well
as well on the left side, which I was a
little bit worried about with two guys that haven't practiced
a lot next to each other. Yeah, and I thought
they they were able to communicate through.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Not just how much did they practice against each other.
David Andrews brought this up on our podcast a couple
of weeks ago. When you have two rookies starting, you're
going to maximize their reps. Yeah, so even more than
maybe or even less than the average backup. Like, how
many opportunities did those guys really get in practice before
last week?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
And you know, going back to training Campearian Lowe was.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Hurt, that's right, right, he missed like most of the.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Summer for a lot of training camp. He was hurt,
so you know, really kudos to them stepped up. Like
you said, you know, Buffalo and Baltimore coming up like
it's it's just one game, and they gotta you know,
you gotta do it more than just once. But if
this is the level of play, I don't know if
Vaderian Low is going to be quite this good. He
was really good in this game. But if it's close

(29:17):
to the level of play that you're going to get
from Ben Brown and Vederian Low until Campbell and Wilson
come back, that they're going to survive this, like they'll
weather this with those two guys down, which is really cool.
I wasn't sure about that. I full hand up, admit.
Now it's one game, let's see it for multiple but
I wasn't sure if they were going to be able to,
you know, survive this without Campbell. If this is what

(29:39):
they get from Low, they will And he was really
solid in this game as well. A couple more standouts
on offense and we'll talk some defense and special teams.
I've got to talk about the Kyle Williams touchdown. Yeah,
that is a hell of a release. At the line
of scrimmage by Kyle Well, he before we even get
to that.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
I just want to give him credit to play before
Kaisham Bouti catches a comeback. It was second and long,
and yeah, I don't know what he did. He did something.
He actually leaves the game and he ended up on
the sideline. Didn't have to stop the game, but he
goes over to the sideline, sits down, and like the
training staff comes over to him, and he was obviously fine.
You know, he came back in the game later whatever,
But like he got hurt on that play. So that's

(30:18):
that play's not designed for Kyle Williams. That's not like
the Kyle Williams package that they had in the game.
He has to come on the field moments notice, you know,
as the backup for Kashun Booty. And then he, like
you said, he makes an unbelievable play for a guy
that you know, we've wondered, is he on the same page?
Is he in tune with the rest of the offense
as much as he needs to be to have a

(30:40):
moment like that. It's not everything, but I think that's
really encouraging and credit to him for staying ready, being ready,
getting there in the moment and then boom, he's thrust
into the game unexpected, goes out and makes play. Credit
to Drake May two for trusting him in that situation.
But I think that's a good sign that maybe things
are trending in the right direction for Kyle Williams, because
that's not easy to do, come and cold and make
a play like that, and he did it.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, So the Giants were really hoping that Paulson had
a bio being back was gonna be good for their defense.
He's one of their starting corners that's been out the
last couple of weeks. And Kyle Williams just dusts Paulson
at a bio at the line of scrimmage with a
little you know, one step, you know, stretch crossover release
and he just he just burned up. And when you

(31:22):
are well, first of all, you know, Drake may when
they were kind of like running a like a mable
like cover three type of coverage on the play where
they're zoning the passing strains those three by one, you know,
three receivers to the right, one to the left, and uh,
they're they're playing zoned to the passing strength of the
formation on the right hand side, so they're just playing
it like spot drop cover three essentially, and the backside's

(31:44):
man to man. They're they're your backside, you're locked man
to man on the backside, so it's eye to bio
versus Kyle Williams. When Drake May sees that from coverage,
whether it's you know, post safety quarters whatever, if your
backside man to man without safety, hell, he's he's hunted
like that. That's a deep ball every single time. And
it's kind of a lot of teams play those types

(32:06):
of coverages, but it kind of blows my mind, like
teams keep doing it against the Patriots because Drake May
has thrown that touchdown pass now, especially in that spot
of the field to kaish On Booty and now Kyle
Williams at least half a dozen times.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
How many of them two have been specifically in that
corner of the stadium, And Yeah, I feel like he
keeps doing it in that corner of the stadium Cleveland,
it was on that corner of the stadium to kaish
on Booty coupled in New Orleans, they did twice in
New Orleans, Miami. In Miami and Week two he threw
a touchdown to Booty on backside one on one uh

(32:44):
the uh left to right far side.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, Titans in Tennessee. Yeah, he threw a bomb to
Booty again for a touchdown on the same kind of coverage.
And then now to Kyle Williams. That's, off the top
of my head, that's five touchdown passes that he's thrown
against that type of coverage. So if you keep doing
that against Drake May, he's just going to keep hitting
you with the go ball and they're going to keep
winning down the field. So I just put the safety

(33:08):
over the top of it on that side of the field. Okay,
stop doing that if you're a defense. But a really
good release by Kyle Williams. Now, yeah, the seventy two
yard touchdown in Tampa, he has a thirty three yard touchdown.
It's the one catch he made in both games. Right,
So it's not all the way there in terms of volume,
but these little flashes are at least more than what

(33:31):
we saw from some of the other high draft pick
receivers of the Patriots over the last handful of years.
Like this is more than we ever saw from Nikhil Harry,
Taekwan Thornton, Jalen Polk, you know those types of players.
So how encouraged are you right now about Kyle Williams,
who's also in his defense is you know these behind
vets like they're playing digs, they're playing Matt Collins, they're

(33:53):
playing booty. But I think Kyle Williams is starting to
really show out here, and this is around the time
where rookies start to emer you know, Tayon Henderson's doing it,
Kyle Williams is doing it as well.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
No, I think that again, it's encouraging that to come
on in that spot and make that play, I think
shows a lot of growth. Do you have a little
bit of Patriots breaking news here?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft are both among the finalists
announced for the Hall of Fame class at twenty twenty six.
Belichick obviously from the Coaching committee, Craft from the Contributor committee,
Stanley Morgan hit but up from the Seniors Committee. He
is not among the finalists, of course.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Not so those are two separate committees. Yeah, so they
could go in together, just to clear the way it works.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
There's the modern era, which is the main ballots. Everybody
knows about and then they changed this last couple years
of news the Coach Committee, Contributor Committee, and Seniors Committee,
So the coach and contributor each get one finalists, the
seniors get three, and then the modern era I think
is twenty six finalists all those people, or no, I
think it's nine finalists. I think twenty six is where
they're at now. All of those people then go on

(34:59):
to one big ballot at the end that all the
committees vote on it. It's anywhere between four and eight,
so they don't have to pick somebody from any of
the committees, like the Seniors Committee does not have to
be represented like I think last year the coaching finalist
was Holmgren, Yeah, who obviously didn't get in, so they
don't have to pick each one. But these are Bill

(35:20):
and Robert on the final final ballot.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
So both deserve to get in. Of course, this night,
though NFL honors twenty twenty five, it would be in
twenty twenty six technically, but then for the Class of
twenty twenty six, yeah, for the twenty twenty five season.
In the Class of twenty twenty six is all the
ap postseason, the war accolades, all the awards, MVP player,

(35:46):
you know, Offensive Player of the Year, Coach of the Year.
All of those awards are presented at the NFL Honors
the night before the year, the couple days before the
Super Bowl, Yeah, Thursday usually, and then so is the
Hall of Fame class, right, so there is a chance
that on that night, Mike Rabel could win Coach of
the Year, Drake May could win MVP. Robert Craft and

(36:07):
Bill Belichick could get into the Hall of Fame, Adam
Van Terry could get into the Hall of Fame, Rodney
Harrison could get into the Hall of Fame. Like, this
could be Patriots Palooza, and that also is an including
Josh McDaniels as potential assistant Coach of the Year, Stefan
Diggs nominated for Comeback Player of the Year like the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Also, you left somebody out. There's three. I mean, there's
a couple of other guys who are here for a
cup of coffee, but the three guys on the modern
era that are waiting for the next cut. Rodney, you said,
Vin Terry, Big Vince, Yeah him too, thro Big Vince
in there.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah. So we're talking about a night and I know
we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, and we'll
get back to this giant's breakdown. But we're talking about
a night at NFL Honors in February that could literally
be a Patriots I mean that could be.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
We've talked about the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
I know what the word is. I don't want to
use it on the air, but I know what the words.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Well, well, let me put this. We've talked about the
Patriots being back right in the national adult film Well
all right, yes, but also we talked about the Patriots
being back in the national sense. Ye think about this.
They go in and take over NFL Honors when they're
potentially on their way to the super Bowl, like, you
can't you can't hide at that point. I think there's

(37:15):
some people that are still closing their eyes and trying
to hide it all.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
It'll be over soon.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
They are a young team week scheduling the bounds to
the playoffs. If we get to that point, past present, future,
it's all there. You can't hide a Scott Zolac said
America's Nightmare would be fully back if that were to happen.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, it's uh.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
And by the way, I do think I mean Bill's
gonna get in first ballot hopestly. I mean, I feel
the modern era class is not as strong as it's
been the last few years. So there's some guys obviously
that are going to get in. But I this does
feel like more of a year where like the Seniors
Committee and the you know all that maybe get a
little more weight.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah. So, I mean, obviously Bill should be in first ballot, right,
but you know, just decide really quickly if Vinitary doesn't
get in the sky.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
It's just I was furious last year. I'm still kind
of mad.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
I don't really understand it. I'll get over it if
they let him in this year, but it should be
a slam dunk home run that Minitary's a Hall of Famer.
Back to the Giants game, a couple of other skill
players that I thought were really good in this game.
Hunter Henry just continues to be just an awesome player
for this football team, really really good. You know, the

(38:25):
thirty six yarder explosive was a great bit of you know,
coverage manipulation. Little pump fait by Drake may to open
the passing lane, but Henry's right where he's supposed to be.
A couple of big third down catches as well that
were kind of sneaky important in this game to get
this lead built. Henry's just awesome, just continues to be awesome.

(38:47):
He also, you know, the Williams touchdown was one of
the you know, handful, small handful of times where they
really load up protection and they went with seven blockers
and the protection and they left Henry into block and
they had just an incredibly clean pocket for Drake may
On the Williams touchdown, You're just like he was having
a picnic back there throwing that ball. So Henry was

(39:10):
in that protection as well in the last one. You know,
this is the emergence. And again this kind of goes
the same with Kyle Williams. You often see this with
with rookies where the back half of the season they
start to come on and you get the player you expected.
Travon Henderson is really starting to emerging. Eighty six total
yards from scrimmage fourteen touches. He was by far their

(39:32):
most efficient, you know, highest yar per carry average runner
between him and Ramandra Stevenson. I understand that people want
to see Henderson out snap and really take over this backfield.
I will just say what I've said all year long,
and that is I want them to continue to manage

(39:52):
Travon Henderson a little bit. I don't want him to
be a bell cow. I don't want him to, you know,
get worn down. It's a long season. The playoffs are coming.
You want him to be your Jamiir Gibbs, your dynamic
weapon come playoff time. Is fine, it's fine. They're gonna
beat teams like the Giants. They're gonna beat teams like

(40:13):
the Dolphins and the Jets with platooning these backs. When
the time comes and it comes to those big, you know,
sort of moments and big drives, yes, I would like
to see Travion out there and being an impact player
for them. But for right now, I'm you know, let's
let's keep Travion Henderson fresh and let's not ride him

(40:33):
into the ground.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Hopefully, by the time they get to Miami and the Jets,
like we see a bigger dose to Treel Jennings or
maybe somebody comes up off the practice part or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
He was but Henderson was really good and I thought
that in particular, what was really good about Henderson in
this game is that last field goal drive that made
it a three score game. Again, they they really you know,
he had the twenty six yard run, which is his
big run of the day, but he also grinded out
some really tough, like kind of dirty yards on that drive,
and that that's what you want. That was a twelve

(41:02):
thirteen play six minute clock killing drive. Let's kick the
field goal to make it an eighteen point game. That
was like one of those like let's put this game
to bed type of drives, and they really kind of
did it on the back of Trevon Henderson.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I'll say too, Like I thought Ramondre ran well
in this game. Obviously Henderson was good, but we talked
about the physicality the defense. Let's not lose track the
physicality offense. I have not seen Ramondre Stevenson run that
hard in a minute, and you know, maybe got a
couple weeks off deal with the tow injury. Just overall
physically was able to reset a little bit. I thought
both backs looked good in this game.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, the running game was not good situationally, but they
did have some success between the twenties and they were
able to run the ball a little bit in this game,
as you would expect against the Giants defense. Just quickly.
On the Patriots defense, I have some nitpicks here in
the bads, but I thought the pass defense was really
good in this game. The coverage I thought was excellent

(41:58):
for most of the game. Richian Gonzalez looked like he
was in cruise control like these receivers for the Giants.
Just it was light work for Christian Gonzalez, Wandel Robinson
and Darius Slayton no offense, but it was like he was,
you know, having a stroll in the park for this
entire game. He was dominant, dominant in this one as well.

(42:18):
And then you know, I thought that they tried to
dial up some shots the Giants did, especially off of
under center play action when the Patriots had it covered.
They had some good kind of covered drinkles to handle
some of the two and three man route combinations out
of you know, cover three and quarters in this game
as well. So really the other thing too with the
pass defense, not necessarily that I thought it was great

(42:42):
per se because they gave up a thirty yard touchdown
on a cover zero. They're clearly trying to get some
get their exotic Blitz pat Blitz package installed and practiced
in game settings, and I think that that's something that
they're going to want to have at their disposal come

(43:03):
playoff time. Is being a little bit more exotic in
terms of bringing pressure and simulating pressure where you line
up a bunch of guys in the line of scrimmage
and who's coming, who's going. Sometimes you bluff out of
it and you drop out of it, sometimes you bring it.
That's been clearly something that they're trying to get some
game reps out of. Like even at the end of
this game, it's thirty three to fifteen, the last two

(43:24):
plays of that Giant's final drive there cover zero blitz,
you know, And I think the reason why it was
not because they necessarily felt like they needed to make
a play. It was thirty three to fifteen at that point.
But I think they want to try to get that
thing going and try to make that something that they
can lean on come playoff time to generate pressure. But
the coverage in this game I thought was really good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, Now, I mean it's the Giants again, They're going
to step up of the Bills don't have much at
the wide receiver position either, but now fuck Gonzales. Yeah,
lowering the shoulder on Wandale Robinson. Yeah, I see him
hit like that.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Well yeah, I mean like I was gonna mention that too.
I'm glad you brought it up. Even the corners tackle
like you know, like Carlon Davis threw a dude to
the ground for a three yard loss. Gonzalez is tackling now,
was like he's doing it as like the flat defender
and cover too. It's like the easiest tackle to make, but.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
He's still healing, but he he put a little more
into it and.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
He's not his game and he's Yeah, you know, they
only they even got the corners tackling.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
They played fu football. That's what that was. That was
f U football. I hope we see more of it.
That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Okay, we gotta talk a little bit about the special teams. Uh,
mar Marcus Jones ninety four yard punt return. I think
that Marcus Jones might be the I mean, Devin Hester's
Devin Hester. He might be the second best punt returner
I've ever seen. You know, Devin Hester's in his own category.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I mean, it's it was a very brief window. Let's
not forget Dante Hall. Dante Hall was electric.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Dante Hall was electric. He's but he's.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Like entering that. Look, statistically, he's the best in NFL.
His Yeah, highest average by like two yards, I think
by two yards per return. So that punt return, give
me a second here, because you're gonna like, I'm gonna
say that was, you know, really impressive punt return all
things considered, Well, yeah, of course it was. It was
a touchdown. Like even as far as punt return touchdowns go,

(45:14):
like sometimes as you make a guy missing the coverage
screws up or you know, the blockings all there and
you just get a clear runway, you got to you
just have to go that the punter out kicked his coverage. Like,
even if you were to rank just the touchdowns, just
the punt return touchdowns, that one would be towards top
of the list for me because it's it's so many
the boxes you look for in an elite returner. He

(45:37):
used everything in the toolbox. Yeah, the patience, the vision,
the speed, the balance. I mean, look, I know it's
the punter, but Jamie Gillen's not a small guy to show.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Also, it was like rugby Aussie rules, like he's also
like a former like it might be Gaelic football but
he's like a former Gaelic football player, I think it is.
And like those guys have to tackle that sport. So
this is not a guy that doesn't know how to
tack to.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Get him to shake him along the sideline as close
to the sideline as he was balanced and body controls
a huge part of that job. Yeah, and so that
and he almost broke another one later too. Just tremendously
and pribably. He is the best punt return in the
league right now. You know, we want to get in
historic context, Devin Hester. You know, we could talk about
that Dante Hall the human joystick, but it's even as

(46:28):
far as touchdowns go, that was a high level punt return.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, it was really good. So you know, he's he's
one of the best I've ever seen do it. He
continues to just do it at an extremely high level,
Like even little things like that fair catch that he
had before halftime in the two minute drill, like he
runs like fifteen yards to make sure the ball doesn't
bounce and he fair catches it, which instead of the

(46:54):
ball bouncing and then rolling into inside the twenty, it's
a fair catch at the twenty three. Like that's that's
ten fifteen yards. That's important yardage in that situation. So
he's even like does like the little detail things like
that as a punt returner, you know, bluffing you know,
the ball going over his head and going into the
end zone when it's a touchback, right like, and you

(47:16):
know selling that to the defense fair catches to avoid
the ball rolling on him. You know, obviously house and punts.
You know, he had a seventeen yard return on top
of the ninety four yard return as well in this game,
so just excellent. They also and this kind of goes
back to the whole thing of like, you know, tough
teams cover kicks and like when you dominate on special

(47:36):
teams like the Patriots did on Monday night, like you
are just the more physical, more you know, locked in,
tougher football team. And they had the big return on
the kickoff, thirty nine yard return by Terrell Jennings on
a kickoff, and then of course they recovered a fumble
on a Giants kickoff as well. In all sincerity, I
hope Gunneralschewski is okay, but they recovered the fumble that

(48:00):
as well. And then of course we had Young Wayku
having one of the worst kick attempts I've ever seen.
All putting all this together, the Patriots special teams just
thoroughly dominated. So this was really like a three phase
domination offense, defense, and special teams. We're all super dominant
in this game for the Patriots. All right, let's get
to some of the nitpicks and I'll say, like, this

(48:22):
is all nitpicky like stuff to work on. Yeah, it's
if I think that one's in the stuff that gets
to beat category. If we're on the same page, the
Patriots run defense is worrying me not a lot, because
not I say, I should say not a lot.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
The Browns that designated to Shaun Watson return of oh.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yeah, that was coming. The reason why it's not I'm
not in like any sort of panic about the run
defense is because Tonga and Milton Williams are supposed to
be coming back, right, So big part of this is
that you're missing your three hundred and thirty five pound
nos tackle and you're missing your best defensive lineman. So

(49:07):
if you get those two guys back, then in theory,
your run defense should come back around. But after really
having an excellent first nine weeks of the season, the
Patriots run defense. In the last four games of the season,
alex are allowing a fifty five point one percent success
rate that is dead last in the NFL. They're the

(49:27):
worst run defense in football the last month of the season.
They are twenty fifth in EPA, they're dead last and
success rate, they're allowing almost five yards to carry. It's
like four point eight or four point nine yards of
carry during that stretch of time. So that's Tampa, Cincinnati,
the Giants, and the Jets are doing that to the
Patriots run defense right now. The Giants, you know, four

(49:48):
point seven yards a clip against the Patriots on Monday Night. Really,
we're able to run the ball pretty well and effectively.
Now again they're getting their guys back. But go to
come on your side of the street a little bit
with this take. This is kind of a sneaky run first.
AFC Field, Buffalo, Baltimore, Indy, Jacksonville and all built on

(50:12):
their run game.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Denver's gonna need to be able to run the football
to win. Maybe they're not built on the run game,
but they're gonna to be able to.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
See Yeah, and I think the Chargers run game would
be better if they had their linemen healthy, like if
Joe All comes back. But all four of those teams
that I just named, Buffalo, Baltimore, Indie, Jacksonville are very
very good, all top ten in rush EPA. But also
just that's their engine of their offense is their run game.
So in the playoffs, when you get to the postseason,

(50:38):
it's always a styles wind fight, you know, boxing kind
of analogy where it's like weakness versus weakness or strained
versus weakness. One game playoff, you know, if you don't
get your run defense in order, let's not even jump
to the playoffs for Buffalo and Baltimore. Buffalo just ran
for two hundred and fifty yards against Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Well, so I would like to think the paid adjust
after the Bills run the same play five or six
times in a row.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I would like to think so too. But you know,
run game, it's mentality, and at some point, like you
just aret getting dog walked in the run game and there's.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Just no they're gonna need to be better.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
They're gonna need to be a lot better in the
run game. I'm more concerned about it in a short
term sense because of Baltimore and Buffalo coming right off
the bye week and Milton Williams won't be back for
those games, one hundred percent won't be back. There is
a chance they're gonna get Tongo back, and I think
maybe resting him in this game was part of that.
You know, let's arrest him, give him the bye week

(51:35):
as well, and then let's get him back for Buffalo
and we're really gonna need him. But James Cook is
gonna is going to torch this run defense if they
play run defense like they have the last month of
the season.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, No, they're gonna need to be better, and that's
you know, getting Tongo back would be huge. I thought
Cory Durden played okay in this game, even with all
their run games struggles, but you'renna need him to take
another level. And then the linebackers too, and you know
those guys coming downhill and trying to make contact earlier. Agree,
they've got a lot. They got a lot to fix there.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
They need to run it. They need the linebackers to
play better as well. I'm glad you brought that up
because I think they're a little bit late to trigger
to some of these combination blocks and like if you're
getting double teamed in the inside, and that's what teams
are doing because they don't have Milton Williams or Tonga.
So like third in Farmer Gregory, uh, the farms, those
guys are seeing a lot of double teams on the inside.
They're just running like inside zone or duo with those

(52:30):
combination blocks. And those linebackers like Ellis Gibbons plaint that
you have to trigger downhill at the line of scrimmage
to get the double team off the defender. Otherwise they're
just gonna move the ball, you know, move them off
the line of scrimmage. Run defenses is one, you know,
sticking into the similar you know, line of scrimmage thing.
Their third and short offense is sneaky not good. Sneaky

(52:53):
not good because they're so good in third and long
that it's kind of washing it out so that their
third down average over is pretty good. Yeah, so right now,
and this is like so bizarre land, they're thirtieth in
the league on third and one. They're fourth in the
league on third and seven plus, so when they're actually

(53:14):
almost just as good on third and long as they
are on third and one, Like the percentage wise, they're
almost just like that shouldn't happen, right, Like you should
be much with.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
The goal line stuff, and just they're not really get
that push in those short yard situation.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah. So in terms of full short yardage, which is
considered like zero to three yards, they're twenty third in
the league in conversion rate, But if you look specifically
at just third in the yard or less, they're thirtieth
in the league at fifty percent. So they all of
a sudden, It's like when they're in third and nine,
I have all the confidence in the world that they're
going to somehow convert, but when they're in third and one,

(53:50):
I have zero, Like in that.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
I mean it was encapsulated in that game they have
the third and one. I think it was in the
third quarter right where Remandre gets stuffed. Now, I don't
think it should have been a fourth and five. I
think he had ford momentum in the rest. That was
a terrible spot, but it was. I think it was
actually fourth and six, right, you know, third and one,
big run and stuff, fourth and six, they're going for it.
I'm not looking at the mats, so I don't know
what the math says, but like in my mind, I'm like, yeah,

(54:15):
that makes sense. And then I was like, that's absolutely
crazy that that makes sense. Yeah, not, it's absolutely crazy
that they're doing it because they're so good at it.
And I'm like, and I remember thinking before the Blake
digs is gonna sit down somewhere in the middlefield and
Drake's gonna hit him. Like it's just it's wild.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yeah, they're they're they're top five in the league and
fourth down conversion rate. I do kind of want to
talk about that and in the second half of the
show because I have some opinions on this whole fourth
down thing, as you can imagine, and maybe we'll talk
a little bit about going for two up nine or
down nine, I should say as well. But yeah, the
third down short offense, you know, third and short offense,
excuse me. On the bats, like needs to be better

(54:52):
than it has been. They were actually kind of good
at it early, like they had that one third and
one run early that game eight yards they ran out
And I so should add to this, like they are
kind of starting to try to empty the clip a
little bit on some new things in this game. They
ran a couple of plays out of an unbalanced line.
They actually put Austin Hooper at left tackle and Vederian

(55:12):
Lowe played the jumbo tight end next to Morgan Moses
on the right side. A couple of times they try
to play it was second down, but they try to
play in wildcat with ramondre Stevenson as well, so they
know and like, this isn't like they're just gonna, you know, say,
oh well, like we're just not good at it. Like
they're starting to try some new things. But I have
some thoughts and when we get to the stuff that

(55:32):
get to beat on, like maybe what might be coming
that's missing the last thing on the bads before we
get to that. Though, as good as the return units were,
Borgals missed a forty five yarder. Yeah, I didn't think
he kicked the ball particularly well in this game either,
And Berenger like, I don't know what's going on with him.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah he hadn't know the shank, Yeah, twenty two yard miss.
I mean, I don't know either. Butody had another shack.
But luckily for them, neither one had the worst kick
of the night. I mean, that's an all timer. Yeah,
that's I never seen anything that was the worst kick
of the century.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
It wasn't it. Wasn't a kick because you can kick it.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
I've watched a lot of attempt I've watched a lot
of football in my life, I would like to think Evan,
as you know, I've watched a lot of not top
tier football in my life. So true, I've seen twice
I've seen the kicker kick the ball into the long snapper. Yeah,
just like line drive it right into his back or
in the back of his head.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
I've seen that.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
That probably hurts, uh, yeah, probably.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
I've never seen the kick. That's like the worst whip
I've never seen. And I've seen the kicker fall down,
but when he falls down, he hits the ball. I've
never seen a miss the ball. Let me ask you,
there are two. There were two plays in that game
that were just like excellent rewatchable replays. What's the more well,
I know you because you don't care about special teams,
what's the more rewatchable replay. I'll throw it out to

(56:52):
the YouTube chat the young Wayku miss or the Christianellis
hit on Jackson Dart.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
So I'm going I mean the hits out there and
it's just like the way Dark kind of flails after
he gets hit just makes it so good. But I mean,
there's gonna be a lot of people that watched that
non kick over and over and over too.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
That was rough, and Dart's reaction was pretty good too,
all right, And.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I liked it just to circle back, Yeah, I liked
the Christian Elis when he was asked about it after
the game, was like, yeah, I get why the Giants
came after me. Like, I get it. We do the same.
For Drake, like good for him, laid out a big hit,
clean hit, but didn't like, well it was a clean hit.
I don't know whether to retali blah blah blah, like
he had a quarterback like that the Patriots, right exactly.

(57:41):
You got to know that's coming, and you know it's coming,
and it still shouldn't stop you from delivering that hit.
So I did credit to Christian Ellis. I thought it
was awesome after the game that he was just like, yep,
I hit their quarterback should have slid, didn't slide. I
hit them. They came after me. That's football. We move on. Like,
I loved that was a great answer. I love that
answer him. I just wanted to get that in there.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
The YouTube is saying hit Yeah, it hits hit hit
hit his entire like family generation into that hit.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah it was. I mean there's people and I don't
mean this in like a negative way or a mean way,
but like if you just started watching football in the
last four or five years, that's like the biggest hit
you've ever seen like that, oh yea, because they don't
hit like that anymore. So, like you didn't see like
Sean Taylor laying guys all so I will said Brandon Meryweather,
like taking guys out over the middle. Like you didn't
see that.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
There was a similar hit when the Patriots played the
Bucks on Drake a few weeks ago. It was it
wasn't dat exs but but like they also didn't flag
that one, and they're starting to not flag. There was
one on Allen two that probably should have been flagged
against the Steelers. Uh he's slid instead of going out
of pantters. But it's right on that border line there. Yeah,
they're starting to not throw that flag as much, which

(58:49):
look obviously player safety. You want to protect the players,
but it had gone so far in the other direction
where and this is not knocking Patrick Mahomes credit to
him for knowing what he can get away with an
otherquarterbacks are doing this too, but it was kind of
them home special. They knew when they got near the
sideline the defender was going to pull up because they
didn't want the flag, so they tiptoe for that extra
five yards right, right, So it had gotten too far.

(59:12):
They're starting to not throw that flag. And now quarterbacks
have to earn the corner if they want to turn
the corner. I think that's a good thing. So I'm
not say that's your runner, you're runner, right, But they hadn't.
They hadn't called it that way, and now they're being
consistent a little more about Hey, like Drake took that hit,
Alan took that hit. Now Dart takes that hit. No flag. Yeah,
you want to try to milk every yard you can get.

(59:33):
You're gonna get hit sometimes that needs to be the
cost for it. And look, if quarterbacks are like, fine,
I'll take the hit, it's going to annoy a lot
of coaches, but okay, that's your prerogative.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Basically what Dart said after they right.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
And other quarterbacks may be like, you know, you know,
look if it's the fourth quarter, if that's third down, yeah,
you want to go for it that was gonna be
third and one early in the game. I like that
they're making quarterbacks think more a little more now if
they want to turn that corner and get those extra
couple of yards.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
I saw a little. I gained a little bit of
a respect and all sincerity for THEO Johnson and the
Giants that they reacted the way that they did.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
You know Johnson in that sense and just the way
he played. He was probably the one player in the
Giants that I came away with really impressed in this game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yeah, that's how you should react, just across sports real quickly,
like I am. I am big on that in hockey
as well. Like we watch a lot of hockey in
our house, as you know, and when somebody comes after
pasta and the Bruins don't react to it, it pisses
me off. I'm like, no, you don't get to come

(01:00:34):
out ahead, hunt the best player and not have repercussions
for it, right, like you know, Caslick or somebody's got
to fight the guy, right like that. That's just the
way it is in hockey. That's the way it is
in football. Like if Drake May got hit like that
on the sideline. I would fully expect the entire sideline
to want to kill the guy. That's how it goes, like,
that's quarterback, that's how it goes. All right, onto the

(01:00:57):
stuff that gets to beat. The one thing that got
could get the Patriots beat the red zone offense. Man,
we're in a slump. We're in a slump. So as
of right now, you know, they weren't this bad at
the beginning of the year in the red zone, so
their red zone efficiency is like middle of the pack,
it's not awful, but the last like you know, a

(01:01:18):
month or so of the season, it's not been good.
One in five in the red zone this week. And
when I look at it, because you know a lot
of people ask like, what's wrong with the red zone offense,
I don't think you can just point to one thing.
I think it's a whole thread. Like once you start
pulling the thread, it's just there's a lot going on
with the red zone offense. I think the three main

(01:01:40):
buckets though that I can probably put into this that
you know, I see one. They're thirtieth right now in
red zone rushing success. They can't run the ball down there.
And we talked about this last week. Running the ball
in is the easiest way to score once you get
inside the five yard line. There's just no there's no

(01:02:01):
other way to put it like that is the easiest
way to score down there. And they can't run the ball.
They can't get the push on the line of scrimmage.
They can't even get a yard on the goal line. Yeah,
so they can't run the ball down there in the
red zone.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
It's funny. They can get to the one. They'll run
from the five or the four to the one and
then they get tackled with the one and they can't
get that next yard.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
So they can't run the football down there. Fixing that
is easily number one on the list of ways to
fix this problem, Like if you can start running the
football effectively down there. And I have some thoughts on
that in a second, but I just want to pull
you know, what's going wrong first? That's number one. Number two.
The one sort of like nitpick last frontier for Drake

(01:02:41):
May in my opinion, is processing in the red zone,
and most of it it's pre snap processing in the
red zone. And I and I want to just say this,
like he's a second year quarterback and we can't lose
sight of that. Like he's a twenty three year old
second year quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
I want to ask you this along those lines, would
you say, is further ahead pre snap processing or post
now processing?

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Post snap? He's really good at processing post name.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
It's interesting because I doesn't usually go the other way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
I don't know. No, I would say it goes this
way because pre snap it's hard, like it's hard to
be able to look at the shell of the defense
and anticipate what everybody's going to do on a play.
And you might think you know, but are you one
hundred percent? And I think what happens sometimes with Drake
May and I don't know. This is just my opinion.
I've never asked him. I don't know, but sometimes I

(01:03:30):
think that he just kind of goes with I'm just
going to run the play. Yeah, and I don't know
one hundred percent, but I'm just going to run the play.
So I'll give you one example. I put it in
after further of you. It's kind of hard for me
to describe it on the air if you want to
see the visual, but it was the incomplete pass on
third down to Stefon Diggs in the corner of the
end zone and the Giants show cover zero pre snap,

(01:03:52):
so they have man to man across the board cover zero,
no safety. It was like the three yard line, so
there's no point in putting the safety. And then they
were gonna bring the house. They're gonna bring pressure, and
Drake May calls Hunter Henry in to stay in to
block on the play. So by default, when you know,
as a quarterback, the tight end is blocking, his man

(01:04:16):
defender now becomes a free player, right because he doesn't
have to cover Hunter Henry because Hunter Henry's blocking. So
there's one of two things that could happen. Either that
guy's gonna blitz and he's gonna you know, green dog
it and he's going to join the rush, or he's
going to drop into like a robber zone. Right, But
either way, that player is now he's public enemy number

(01:04:37):
one now, right, Like he's your issue, he's your problem
that you have to solve. So on the play, they
have two routes to Drake's right in one route to
Drake's left backside route by Kishawan Boody. So on the
right hand side they just run like a classic like
slant corner, you know, smash type of concept that you
see in the red zone all the time, and Hunter
Henry's guys on that side of the formation and he

(01:04:59):
just drops right into the slant window. So now you
have to throw the low percentage corner fade to the
back of the end zone, just Fawn Diggs. So now
you know, just from a numbers perspective, you have three
Giants defenders covering two Patriots receivers on that side of
the field. On the backside of the formation, you have
Kaishan Boody who's just one on one with his man.

(01:05:20):
So when you look at this shell pre snap, you know,
I would like to see Drake may get to the
backside of that because he's going to have the numbers
even on the backside one on one, whereas on the
other side that help defender that free defender that falls
off Hunter Henry has now become a problem. So now
instead of just being able to throw the slant to

(01:05:41):
Matt Collins for an easy touchdown, now you have to
go over the top and you have to throw the fade,
which is obviously a low percentage throw. So those are
the sort of the little things in terms of like
his uh pre snap and kind of understanding whereas the
easiest throw to make down here that I think that
he could probably improve upon. That's not to say he's

(01:06:02):
the only problem. That's not to say he's not great.
He's not the MVP. I'm just telling you, like, these
are little things that are happening under the hood with
him on tape right that you know, he could improve
on again as his second year guy, Like, he's not
We're not ten years into this. He's not Tom Brady, right,
So he's not going to come to the line of
scrimmage and dominate pre snap at the line of scrimmage

(01:06:23):
as a second year quarterback. Neither was Brady in two
thousand and one. I promise you he was not, you know,
being the chess master that he ended up being. So
it's it's a process. It's a process. So there, and also,
you know, processing down by the red zone is probably
one of the hardest things to do because it happens
so much faster right than it does in the middle
of the field. So that is easily the hardest thing

(01:06:46):
to do as a young quarterback in the NFL. Is
there is red zone processing. So putting those two things together,
Alex I can't run the ball. Drake May is probably
final frontier, you know, his final hurdle as a quarterback
is you know, and pre snap processing down in the
red zone. So the one thing that I think that
could kind of solve all of this, not solve all

(01:07:09):
of it, but help.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Oh and sorry, last thing. They don't have Tonga, so
that to me is a big part of this too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
I'm sorry to somebody about this the other day, you
know who they I don't even know if miss is
the right word, but like brock Lampy injury kind of
looms a little bit and they need a fall back.
I've seen people ask like do they need to fall
back this offseason? It'll be interesting to see, Well here's
the thing, do they need one or do they look
at it and be like, well, we're gonna get Lampy
back and he's the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Sure, So I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Mean just remember that we get to the although they
need a full back, they still at brock Lampy, at
least they for now they still do, but they they
miss somebody in that role like Jack west Over trying
to adjust. Yeah, he's just not that kind of player.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Yeah, So hopefully when they get Tanga back. You know,
that will also help because he's a battering ram and
he can you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
He'll probably the closest they have.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Yeah, So that those are the three buckets of things
that I look at with the red zone offense is like,
what is going wrong with the red zone offense? Now,
let's fix it, you know, in terms of the fixes.
One thing, just looking at their run game without getting
into some of the bells and whistles that we can discuss.
I don't think that this is an offensive line, that

(01:08:23):
it is very good at vertical displacement, like running downhill.
So I wouldn't mind them trying to run more outside
and kind of using the offensive lines athleticism instead of
its power in some of these situations. And Trayvon Henderson's
athleticism too right in his speed to the edge. So

(01:08:43):
I wouldn't hate like some tosses, some cracked tosses, you know,
those misdirection flips like things like that. I think maybe
is better for this group than other groups, because they're
probably a little bit better moving laterally than they are
moving vertical, clean up the field and trying to win
with power the other elements. You know, I do think

(01:09:06):
there could be a little bit more window dressing down there.
You know, the Chiefs and other teams like that are
really good at using like those return motions where the
guy comes in and he goes back out and you
have to pass it and figure it all out defensively,
Like they could try to go smoking mirrors yea down
there and just dress everything up with window dressing and
just try to confuse the crap out of the defense.

(01:09:28):
But the last thing that I think is coming I
do when the games get higher stakes, they're not really
running Drake down in the red zone yet, and they're
not really using his mobility to leverage it against the defense.
Like every once in a while they'll run his zone
read just to have him hold the backside, but it's
not really he's not really keeping it yet, right, So

(01:09:52):
is that the last element? You know? More you know,
zone read, more rpo, and when it comes playoff and
you're in the playoff game and you're in the fourth
quarter and you're at the two yard line and you
need a touchdown, you know, then you start to unlock,
like letting Drake run.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Yeah, I mean they've said they'll do it to win games.
They didn't they they tried one I think against Cincinnati
or was it a busted play. There's one that looked
like a designed run, but it might have been like
for a late flip. I've said this before. I think
that you'd rather run him not enough than too much.
You'd rather err on the side of caution. But I

(01:10:30):
don't think that number needs to be zero. And if
it's just in the red zone, so be it. They
had one where they spread out, they went five wide,
and the Giants were so last week they tried to
run the ball ton in the red zone. This week.
I don't know if it was being discouraged about the
run game whatever personnel. There was more like a run

(01:10:51):
pass split when they got close to the goal line,
and I think the Giants were sitting on that. There
was one where they came out five wide and the
Giants to spread it out and I was like, oh,
QB draw, here you go like that and then they
motioned remandering and I think that was the one where
they end up throwing it tim in the flat for
no gain. I think it was from like the three
yard line. Yeah, Like, even just something as simple as that,

(01:11:12):
you don't need to do it a ton, but maybe
when you get to like third and goal from the one,
and you've exhausted everything else, like they should try to
mix it in.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I have been waiting all season because they ran it
and look, he's a different kind of athlete, but they
ranted a bunch with Cam. I've been waiting all season
for them to motion the running back and to create
empty and then to run QB power downhill at the
line of scrimmage. I've been waiting all year to see
them do that. Now, Drake May is not two hundred

(01:11:38):
and forty five pounds like Cam Newton was, right, so
running him inside might not be something that you want
to do on a regular basis because he's not built
like that. But if you get the defense off guard,
like he's gonna just waltz in, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
They it feels like they've more than set up the draw,
the shotgun draw.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
And maybe that's something that they're trying to put on tape,
is the setup. And then you know when they play
Buffalo and they can win the division in week fifteen
by beating Buffalo and it's the fourth quarter and it's
a tie game and you're inside the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Five right now, you pull it out. Yeah, I think
that that's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
But adding Drake May's mobility into their low red zone
and goal line package I think would And I'm not
talking about sneaks. I'm talking about like design quarterback runs
that I think it would go a really long way
to fixing this thing. So they have some The good
news about the red zone offense, Alex is that they
have some options, Like they have some things that they

(01:12:33):
still could do that they haven't done yet that I
think could help. And so that's always good. Like when
you use exhaust all options and you still can't score
down there, that's that's when all weary.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Hat and T shirt game division rival coming up off
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Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
All right, we got to pay the bills. We'll be
right back after the break and we'll open up the
calls and the emails.

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(01:15:32):
to find your errands. All right, let's get to these calls.
I know you guys have all been waiting for a while.
Jared is in New Jersey. What's up, Jared?

Speaker 4 (01:15:41):
Hey, what's up?

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Guys? How we doing?

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Just got a good just got a couple of things here.
Just want to shout out to two guys that I
noticed just.

Speaker 8 (01:15:49):
Doing it weekend week out.

Speaker 7 (01:15:51):
Christian Barmore. He's just an amazing player. He's a true
football player.

Speaker 8 (01:15:55):
Matt Collins. Also this guy, you thrown the ball, he
catches it.

Speaker 7 (01:15:59):
You ask him to do something, he'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
I just love him.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
Two guys that I just think are great for this team.

Speaker 6 (01:16:06):
My last thing, it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Free agency question.

Speaker 6 (01:16:08):
Might not be able to get to it.

Speaker 8 (01:16:10):
But zach Ertz, this guy's killing it on the Commanders.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
Daniels and Mariota love him.

Speaker 8 (01:16:15):
Do you see him as a fit maybe next year, maybe.

Speaker 7 (01:16:18):
Coming in a free agency.

Speaker 8 (01:16:21):
Yeah, that's basically it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
Thank you, guys, he said zach Ertz. Yeah, yeah, so
zach Ertz is interesting. That guy's like the guy that
he's agent like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Fine Wise is another one of these ageless players.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know if he's a fit, you know, Like,
I don't mean that because I don't like him as
a player. I just they have Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper.
I think they kind of need to move in the
other direction at tight end, you know, would just get
younger at the position and not get older. Yeah, Barmore
is a good shout out. Like Barmore is now the
guy on that defensive line. He's seeing all sorts of
double teams. He's still making plays. I thought he was

(01:16:56):
really really good in this game for the most part.
Couple of double teams, like everybody that he got pushed
around on a little bit, but had some really high
level reps, even reps that like led to plays for
other guys that were He's plugging gaps and you know,
moving guys and then allowing his teammates to finish up
the play. So yeah, Barmore is he's doing his best

(01:17:17):
without his without his wingman there. You know, it's it's
hard without Melon Williams. He's doing his best, all right.
Randy is in Providence. What's up? Randy?

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
Up?

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
All right? Call back, Randy. You were on hold for
a while. If you're still there, Patty, what's up? Patty,
how are we doing?

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
What's up?

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Guys?

Speaker 7 (01:17:42):
They So, I just wanted to kind of piggyback on
one thing that Alex said, but before I do that,
this team kind of reminds me of a couple of
Patriots teams from the past. One of them is the
ninety four Patriots team, which I didn't get to watch
a lot of because that was in Marine Corps boot
camp and sy subsequently. But that team had a you know,

(01:18:06):
second year Drew Bledsoe, who kind of went off, but
it also had a team they signed Mary and Butts
to come in here and be kind of dead that
sledgehammer running back and just never lived up to fruition.
And the three team, which just kept finding ways to
win no matter what I mean they had. They had
a few ugly games. They want to shootouts, they want

(01:18:26):
to blowouts. Kind of reminds me a little bit of
this team. But Alex, what you said earlier about consistency, Yeah,
I said, just a couple of weeks ago, like there's
a few teams in the league. Actually there's really only
two that just weekend week out just find ways to win.
It's it's Austin, the Broncos and Evan, I know, I

(01:18:47):
know you're not scared about going into Denver, but uh,
kind of give props to my man Speed. It's just
it's one of those places like Miami. It's a house
of horrors. Even when we had Brady, even when we
had Blood, so we just we couldn't Patty oh All
one was his last year.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
So yeah, I don't know if he's going to be
suiting up for the Patriots in the playoffs.

Speaker 7 (01:19:14):
Huh okay, but a little fun fact, a little fun fact,
and then they've never won a playoff game in Denver ever. Yeah,
and I know, like, actually the worm has to turn
and it has to change if we get to play
them this year in Denver. You know, I'm I'm hoping
that they take it, and I think this team will
find a way to win if that happens. So even

(01:19:37):
though I'm giving props to my man Speed, I'm I'm
kind of in your camp too. I'm not at this
point right now, at eleven and two, I'm I'm really
not afraid to play any team. And that's all I got, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Thanks. I don't want to fully do the whole Denver
thing again, but like I think the problem that I
have with the whole, like it's like a house of horrors.
Thing is like first of all playoff games in Denver.
So the AFC title game against Peyton that was what
twenty thirteen or fifteen oh fifteen? Yeah, they played them

(01:20:09):
twice though, didn't they. Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
I think one might have been divisional. No, they're both.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Change and they lost both of them. Yeah, so that's
twenty fifteen and twenty thirteen, I want to say, and
then uh, the Jake Plumber the game, right, Yeah, that's
two thousand and five, right, so first Brady's first playoff loss.
So we're just going off of the like that's we're
talking about a three game sample size. I just and

(01:20:36):
I don't want to do this whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
Yeah, altitude is something that doesn't mean the Patriots can't win,
but the altitude is something.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Okay. The second thing that I would just say about
the whole, the whole Denver thing, you know, one of
that thing is that it's a tiny, little sample size, right,
the little The other thing is is like we just
named the three games. It was twenty fifteen to twenty thirteen,
two thousand and five. I believe it was might have
been No. Six technically, but oh five, Yeah, that was ten, twelve,

(01:21:06):
twenty years ago. So what relevancy does the fact that
Tom Brady lost his first playoff game to Jake Plumber
on a stupid Saturday night where Ben Watson clearly uh
you know, got the ball out of champallis like, what
relevancy does that have to this point?

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Relevancy there? I think it's just people trying to prove
the point that, hey, going to Denver is never an
easy task. That's just the reality of it. It's one
of the better between the elevation, which is a thing,
and also credit to that crowd they show up. It
is one of the tougher, right and then you know
it's gonna be cold, it's gonna be nasty. Yet it
is one of the tougher visits in the NFL. I

(01:21:45):
think that doesn't mean they can't go and win there,
but you could, like so the problem with that we
talked about a couple of weeks ago. Would you rather
go to Denver or Indy? Like Indy such an easier.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
Yes, but the problem the problem with that, that thing,
yeah is like the like than like anecdotally listening to
players talk about playing in Denver. Yeah, in terms of
like Denver's record at home over the last really going
all the way back to John Elway, Denver has been
one of the better teams in the league. So obviously

(01:22:16):
their record is better at home than most of the
teams in the NFL. Just like if you looked at
the Patriots record, okay at home over the last twenty
five years, it's gonna be really really good. And I
don't know if this is some great home field advantage
or if they just had Tom Brady for twenty years
and they just were great and so he went at
home a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
But you look at I have to find the exact number.
I forget, but like I think they want their the
difference between their home winning percentage and road winning percentage
is bigger than average.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
I just feel like this is like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
I looked this up that I text you this last night.
They're like, I think, ninth in home wins.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
So there's like eight teams that are better at home
than Denver, and we're acting like it's.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Just like, well, players say it's hard to play there,
and that's an anecdote. It doesn't matter, Like why why
can't we listen to the players who've played there. They have,
we haven't.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
I didn't say we can't and.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
They've You kind of just dismissed it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
No, I didn't just say ye anecdotally other than you,
you know how I feel about it. It's an element.
It's managing an element, just like managing, but it's a
snowstorm or managing a rainstorm, or managin a crazy winded
but it's a tougher it's an element.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
It's a tougher element to manage than many of the
other places you'd end up going.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
Sure for maybe for the Patriots just because they they
don't play in elevation here, but like when they're when
the Chargers come here and they lose in the playoffs
because it's twenty five degrees, what do we say about
the Chargers?

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
We say, what a bunch of horses, right, because they
can't it's an element that they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
We go and they and they and they lose. And
in Denver the.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Chargers also come here and are non competitive.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Okay, but they don't just lose. If we go to
Denver and they say.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
They should not get their doors blown off by the
Broncos because.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
Of the action happen, right, So then what are we
talking about. The better team on the TA will win.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Its just more to manage. It's more to it, just
the better team. Yeah, but if they're close, it can
be a deciding factor.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
I guess it can be, as we're not going to agree.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
I just like nobody is saying, Okay, it's place to
play in the league.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
You're gonna lose in Denver. You're acting terrified of the Broncos.
All right, I lay down my stored Okay, yeah, it's
a horrible, horrible, horrible outcome of the Patriots have to
get you're acting.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
I don't want anything to do with People are saying, well, okay,
it's at altitude, so they're gonna lose by Forting. We
all have to be okay with that. That's not how
anybody's looking at it. It's another variable. It's another factor
in the game you have to deal with. You want
to you want them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
It's not the most important one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
What's the fact. But if it is a close game,
those little things start to matter.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Let's hope that the Patriot just get the number one seed.
So I don't need to argue with people about this
for three weeks and you know, leading up to a
potential AFC Championship game in Denver because I'm tired a
diary of argument.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Watch what's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
But it's just we can agree to disagree. Hang on,
so the Broncos, I we we can agree to disagree.
We're not gonna We're not going to Neither one of
us is gonna budge on this one. Although I am
laying down my sword and I am saying that I
don't want to play the Broncos. Everybody else is right
and I'm wrong and I don't want to play the Broncos.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Here here evan wait to be the bigger man. Yeah,
all right, so I'm done here. You said, oh this
is going nineteen sixty? Give me, give me what do
we want to say? Nineteen on the ground it's done eighty? No,
I'm not You all are right, I'm not battling. Well, no,
I'm gonna I'm going to actually give you the tangible.
I just got to put the years in, but I'm
going to give you the actual tangible, Like how much

(01:25:51):
better are they at home than on the road? Since
two thousand? At home, the Broncos are one thirty two
and seventy six on the road, they are ninety five
and one oh three. That's actually a pretty significant swing.
I just so they're I think that what I think

(01:26:12):
this is what it all stems from. And I and
I kind of wanted to talk about something this stuff.
And they're sixty games over five hundred at home since
two thousand. Yeah, if I did this correctly on Pro
Football Reference, sixty games over five hundred at home, twenty
games under five hundred on the road, you're talking about
an eighty games swing that is relevant, that statistically relevant. Okay,
it doesn't mean it's to be all end all, it's

(01:26:33):
statistically right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
I don't I still don't know if this is correlation
or causation. And I think that's what it comes back
to to me. I don't know if this is just
because the Broncos have been pretty good for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
But if they're pretty good teams win on the road too,
good teams go like yeah they were, their record at
home is going to be better than on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
Again, you're talking about like an eighty game swing from
when when? What? Since two thousand? Okay, you want me
to go further back and include out way?

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Oh, I just I just don't know. I don't know.
I I give up. I give up. You all are right,
like it's a terrible It doesn't mean they're going to
lose the game.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
It doesn't mean they're going to lose the game. But
it's ideally not something you have to deal with. Going
back to nineteen eighty two fifty and one fifteen at home,
one's sixty four one ninety eight and one on the road,
I just gross.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
A tie again. I just don't know. I don't know
if where, I don't know if this is actually like, oh,
it's a true you know this home field advantage thing
that you all are telling me is terrible for the Patriots,
or if the Broncos have just had John Elway, they've
had Peyton Manning, they have a good team.

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
Now I haven't they won on the road at this
close to the same clip.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
You're just looking up what Denver is on the alone, like,
where does that rank it? Where is their road record
ranking relative to the rest of the league.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
Okay, I'll tell you hang on their road record relative
to the rest of the league.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
I've been wanting to nineteen eighty for like ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Well, no, we're having the conversation. Let's have the conversations.
They are do you eleventh?

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Exactly, so they're middle of the pack on the road,
and then at home they are ninth. Well, no, this
is since nineteen eighty. Last last night, I used a
different barometer, but you wont meet include John that way.
They are first at home since nineteen eighty. No team
has won more games at homes since nineteen eighty than
the Denver Broncos. I okay, and they were eleventh of
the road.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
I give up, I surrender.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
How many teams do you think have a winning record
on the road since nineteen eighty?

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
Four?

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
Any guesses? No, come on, play the game, No game,
I play the game.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
I'm not a sore loser. I just have been so
over this.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
One of the four teams that have a winning record
on the road since nineteen season. If you want to
include the playoffs here, the Patriots, yeah, the Steelers, yeah,
the Eagles, and the Niners.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
Okay, Patriots are three games away from having the best
road record in the NFL since nineteen eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
Since nineteen eighty, with two Hall of Fame quarterbacks, the
Broncos have been really good at home?

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
Is that that's the take the split between the home
and road. You never gonna get it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
No, I I told you I lay down my sword.
It's over. You are right. I am wrong, all right.
Denver is a tough place to play. I don't want
to play there. There we go.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Well, it's you would rather play other places than there?
Is the discussion. I'd rather yes, play there than not
be in it. But yeah, I'd rather go to Indy
rather go I would rather go to Indy too, probably
rather go to Baltimore. See how the Baltimore's tough? Right,
This is the difference between me and and I think
everybody else. I just look at the teams. I don't

(01:29:35):
know realistically where else they could go. It's really going
to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
I just look at the teams. I look at who
are the best teams? And I don't want to play
the best teams. That's fair. I don't look again, Oh
at this stadium or that home field, like Arrowhead is
an amazing home field, but the Pages aren't going to
go there. But right, But I'm just saying, like I
if the Chiefs.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Were in it's close. That stuff can matter. Case in point,
those as much as we love to laugh at them
blowing doors against Peyton Manning's Colts and the other two thousands,
like talent wise, those teams were close. You know what
made a big difference the snow, in the cold, in
the wind. When they would come here in January, paint
couldn't play.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
This is but this is my whole point. You're making
my whole point. The whole point is is that the
altitude is an element just like weather. So as a
mentally tough football team, which I like to think that
they are because the head coach, Mike Rabel is one
of the most mentally guys that'll ex handle it, I'm
with you and I should be able to overcome it.
If you are the better team.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
I trust them to have a plan to handle it.
It's a little different than weather because you get like
there's an actual biological.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
Well, okay, we'll leave on Friday.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
No, I trust it. They've had a plan for everything
so far. Trust and have a plan for it. But
some of you have to have a plan for.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Okay, So here's an you know, I wanted to talk
about this and sort of this kind of got me
thinking about it. Two things that stood out to me
from like those Thanksgiving games and some of the games
that I've been able to watch this weekend. I wanted
to talk a little bit about the Detroit Lions because

(01:31:05):
with the Patriots on a buy and so we can
talk a little bit about the rest of the league.
The Detroit Lions right now are this is our thing.
This is why I want to talk about it. The
Lions are going for it on fourth down at the
same rate as they always have gone for it on
fourth down. However, their fourth down conversion rate is dropping

(01:31:29):
off a cliff. So this goes back to the whole like,
you know, your whole thing is like they should adjust, right,
like they should stop doing it. So on Thanksgiving against
the Packers, they lost it to the Packers. The Lions
went for it twice on fourth down in that game,
and they're zero for two on fourth down over the

(01:31:51):
last month of the season. The Lions are only converting
like twenty five percent of their fourth downs, yet they're
still going for it when the mass says go, they
go yep. And the Patriots are also a team that
has been following the analytics a lot in these types
of decisions, but just looking at like their fourth down efficiency.
You know, they're one of the best fourth down teams

(01:32:13):
in the NFL. The Patriots right now are second in
the league and fourth down conversion rate at seventy seven
point eight percent pretty good. The Chiefs are number one
at eighty. So the Patriots are second in the league.
The Detroit Lions right now are eighteenth at fifty two percent.
The Lions last year with Ben Johnson were fourth in

(01:32:34):
the league. So, you know, this all kind of goes
back to all things we've all We've talked about a
million times. But Ben Johnson's doing great in Chicago. This
Detroit team is not winning in those margins like they
used to win when they had Ben Johnson as their coordinator.
Your thoughts on this, because I feel like this is
right in our wheelhouse, so that it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
Goes back to something else I always say about this.
The decision to go or not go is only as
good as the how you feel about your play calls,
only as good as the play you call. Yeah, right,
if you are confident in the place you have, I'm
find being a little more aggressive going for it. If
you're to go back to the Bengals game, here's a

(01:33:16):
great example that the second time they got stopped on
the goal line, they kicked the field goal on fourth down.
I think the math said go there, right, if I
remember correctly, the Patriots the patrio, Yes, yeah, but okay,
you can make it a six point game. You've been
struggling in this spot. You've now had like eight snaps.
I think it's actually like closer to ten snaps at

(01:33:37):
that point on the goal line. That's not working. The
play calls aren't working. You have to factor that in.
And they kicked, and I like that they kicked that
field goal, and kicking that field goal ended up making
a big difference in that game. So to give give
you your argument some credit here, it's almost like the
quality of the play calls has dropped off since Ben
Johnson left.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
That was exactly what I want.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
They haven't adjusted to it. So I stand by the
decision to go is only as good as the play
you called. There was one, oh, one of the Thanksgiving games,
there's like a fourth down, it's like fourth and one.
It was a long one and they lined up in
shotgun and it was like they're not just gonna hand
this hand this thing off up the middle because they've
done it the play before, and they did it, and

(01:34:19):
you're like, why even go if that's your play call.
They just stopped that exact same play. You haven't had
that push all night. And I think realistically, and I
don't remember the exact moment of this, but like, realistically,
in the flow of that game, it made sense to
go there. But if that's what you're gonna call, man,
just punt the ball. We just punt it. And I
think the Lions maybe and Dan Campbell have to have
kind of a moment of realization that we're not putting

(01:34:41):
Pinay Seul in motion and having him flip the ball
to the third string tight end anymore. Like the stuff
we're calling isn't working. We can't be as aggressive because
we don't have the ability to be as effective when
we make these calls.

Speaker 2 (01:34:52):
So I'm in agree with you because this supports my
Ben Johnson's good argument.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
So you never said that Ben Johnson wasn't a good
play call.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
I never said that, even though it doesn't. No, I'm
not saying that you said that. I was saying, you know,
anything that's pro Ben Johnson is good with me. I
would also just add, you know, with the Lions. One
of the sneaky weird things that's happened in the league
this year is Dan Campbell calling plays for the Lions offense.
And I'm not saying that Dan Campbell is like incapable

(01:35:20):
of calling plays, Like I'm sure Dan Campbell knows a
ton of football, and I'm sure his ex's knows mine
is pretty good. But I watched, you know that game
was it was against the Eagles a couple of weeks ago,
and you have Dan Campbell trying to out smart, out
wit Vic Fangio, and that could not have been a
bigger mismatch, right, Like you have maybe the best defensive

(01:35:43):
play caller in football against the guy that really shouldn't
be calling plays and the Lions. And this was exactly
what I was worried about with the Lions. So I'm
kind of a three lapping here a little bit. The Lions,
you know, have not replaced Ben Johnson, and now Dan
Campbell is being thrust into a play calling role that's

(01:36:03):
not a role he should have. Dan Campbell's a raw,
raw guy. Dan Campbell's a leader. Dan Campbell's you know,
biting knee caps like that's Dan Campbell him trying to
get into the play sheet, and all that stuff is
not is not it? And so he's not going anywhere obviously,
and shouldn't. Their GM isn't going anywhere obviously he shouldn't.
But they're going to hire an offensive coordinator at the

(01:36:25):
end of the year, like they're going to hire a
real offensive coordinator for twenty twenty six, no doubt about it.
The other sort of thing, in terms of the math
and all that stuff that's kicking around, I would say
this is the one spot where I deviate from the nerds.
I do not agree with the nerds on this. The
going for two down nine points at the end of

(01:36:48):
the game.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
See interesting. I actually don't hate that one. I disagree
with it depends how much time's left. I disagree with it.
And the main reason why.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
That I get the argument that you want to know
what you need, and I like I when I say
I get it, like I'm not dumb, I understand what
you're trying to tell me. I'm just not buying what
you're selling. So I still feel like making it an
eight point game and then all you need defensively is
one stop and then you go down, you score, you

(01:37:19):
get the two point conversion you go into overtime. I
still feel like that is the better strategy at the
end of the game than trying to get it. And
then most of the time it feels like teams fail
and then they just go down nine points and then
it's game over. Like the game's over because then you
have to stop touchdown on side kick recovery, like you
know what I mean, Like there's just too many things

(01:37:41):
that have to happen, but this is These are the
two things right now that are really kind of taking
over nerd analytics world. In football, doesn't make sense to
go for two down nine and fourth down and how
you treat fourth down? How do you feel about the
going for two down nine?

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
I think it has to do with how much times
left on the clock, because agreed, I do think there's
an element and I hear it. I get it. Well,
you know what you need, you can manage the game.
Do you need one possession? Do you need two possessions?
The part of that conversation I've never heard anybody have is, well,
now the defense also knows what you need, and they

(01:38:20):
can call the game differently and they can maybe be
a little more aggressive or conservative whatever the situation may be.
And also again the play you called, do you feel
good about your two point game? Do you feel like
you're gonna have a good chance to get at things
like that? I think there's more room for interpretation. If
let's say there's like eight minutes left in the game

(01:38:40):
right early fourth quarter, I don't hate it as much
because you're probably gonna have time for that extra drive anyway,
one way or the other. And okay, so you want
to know if you need one or two. I think
there's maybe more information there. If there's like four minutes
left in the game, three to four minutes left and
you need to stop, you're only gonna get one more drive.
Make sure that drive is for the game. That's kind

(01:39:01):
of where I'm at on it, like where in the
game are we? And then also again it comes down
to how good you are two points.

Speaker 2 (01:39:06):
I just think that what was the team that did
it this last time? I'm biking this last time. To
your point, there was not enough time in the game
right to get multiple possessions I think it was a
philly to get multiple possessions back. There wasn't enough time
in the game.

Speaker 1 (01:39:20):
You know what you need, Okay, But if you don't
get it, now, the game's over.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
It So as soon as they've went don't matter. As
soon as they failed the two point converted, the game
was over. You know what you need?

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
Okay, Well, now you know you're gonna lose. Yeah, so
you know again early fourth quarter, you can talk me
into it. I think there's maybe some validity to that.
Don't like dilute yourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
You're thinking you could still get two possessions the traditional way,
right with this and that or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:39:46):
It's like, all right, we're probably gonna have the ball
two more times, so because then maybe you know, okay,
well we're gonna get the ball back down seven. We
want to be a little more conservative on this drive.
We want to run some clock. We don't want to
give them too much time versus like, if you know
you're gonna need to be in scramble mode one way
or the other, make it a one score game.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
Yeah, okay, So a couple of things. Then we'll take
your calls to wrap up the show. Just thoughts on
the week fourteen Slate Patriots are on a buy. What
are you going to do? Slate? What are you going
to be watching? I don't believe that the Patriots can
clinch this week. I don't think, which, by the way,
is not quite so freaking weird, not quite there. They
can have eleven wins and not clinch the playoffs. Ryan Garvin,

(01:40:25):
who's my producer on Sunday Kickoff, look this up. You
found one of the websites that describes it. Yeah, they
or that lays out the scenarios.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
They described as a horrific set of tie breakers that
would occur if the Patriots were to lose out that
would not let them in the playoffs. So yeah, so
it's obviously one more winning they're in. But the Patriots
could at worst finish at eleven and six. And right
now the Bills are the seven seed at eight and four,
so they're only the only the teams in the playoffs.

(01:40:54):
The worst case scenario for Houston would be six losses
and so they could still tend There's so many tie
breakers that they don't have for whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
And yeah, it's because of their schedule.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Because of their schedule, and yeah, the fact that it's
with seven teams too. But anyway, what'll I be watching?
You definitely need two TVs for this one. I actually
think the best game is probably Bills Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:41:15):
I can't believe. It inflects that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:16):
I am a little surprised. It inflects that that's the
best game. You were right about this, Like the Bengals
are not out of it, No, I tell they're larking.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Well, and then you have so in conjunction with that,
you have Steelers Ravens. Yeah, so the Bengals can get
to five wins, the division leader is going to have seven,
and the Bengals still have the Ravens once more. And
oh no, they're done with the Steelers, but they split
with the Steelers. So yeah, like it's still open. I think, oddly,

(01:41:43):
if you're a Bengals fan, you're rooting for a tie
in Steelers Ravens. If I have that correctly in my head.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
The Bengals are playing better than the Bills right now. Yes,
I'm pretty convident in saying.

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
That I would agree with you. And then you have
Colts Jaguars, which is for the AFC South, and you
know you're looking at potential for first round playoff opponents
or first playoff game if the Patriots get divided divisional round? Right,
are the Colts going to Indy? Are the Jags. Are
the Colts going to Jacksonville or the Jags going to Indy?
Does that loss open up? And then I'll to get

(01:42:14):
to the game of the week. I'll jump ahead here
a little on the schedule. I didn't want to skip
the four o'clock window, but the game of the week,
so that was the game of the one o'clock window.
I think I said it's the game of the week.
Game of the one o'clock window. Texans Chiefs Sunday Night football,
Hell yeah, all that's gonna be awesome. But Holmes against
that defense, Texans heading in one direction, Chiefs heading in
the other. Will know what happened with that Colts Jaguars game.

(01:42:34):
The Texans might have a chance to jump back into
the division lead. I know they won't. Sorry, one of
those teams of nine wins, but like that Texans team
is right there. That game freaking rules. All four of
those games.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Bill's Bengals, Chiefs, Texans, Colts, Jaggs, Steelers, Ravens are gonna
be good games. The Broncos playing the Raiders well.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
And then in the NFC, so I was gonna get
to that. In the NFC, Bears Backers, the Broncos play
you care about your boy, Ben Johnson, I carry a game.

Speaker 2 (01:43:03):
Like watching it in terms of that, Yeah, I thought that, like,
what are the best games to watch now? Broncos Raiders,
Tom Brady now the Raiders. It was one of the
It was a Thursday night game. Yeah, it was super ugly.
It was ten to seven, like it was.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
It was bo Nicks in Hell in that game.

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
Yeah, it wasn't totally a non game. And you know,
this happens like that. Teams you play spoiler at the
end of the year. You know, the Miami Dolphins in
twenty nineteen beat the Patriots in Week seventeen to knock
them out of a bye. You know, it happens. I'm
not saying it's going to but it has happened. Yeah,

(01:43:40):
So Broncos play the Raiders is probably going to be
a win for the Broncos. But I'm really looking forward
to Bill's Bengals because the Bengals, I think their defense
is starting to kind of trend in a good direction.
I know that five turnovers kind of masked some things
in that Baltimore game, but they played better against the Patriots.
They caused five turnovers since the Ravens and now Burrow's.

Speaker 1 (01:44:02):
Back the potential. We'll see what happens against Josh Allen.
And Josh Allen's been He's been turning the ball over
a lot, but outside of that, he's been playing well.
He's kind of gone back to like covid Josh Allen. Yeah,
if they keep Josh Allen relatively in check. Yeah, the
splits that will have Bengals defense first eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
Weeks of the season. Is that game in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
No, it's in Buffalo.

Speaker 2 (01:44:25):
Okay. So the one other split that's really going trending
with the Bills is their home road split.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
Yeah, they've been very good.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
They're they've been and they've been bad. On the road.
They have like almost it's almost like a I think
it's a full touchdown.

Speaker 1 (01:44:37):
Would you say it's a broncos que home road split.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
Yes, it's almost a full touchdown In terms of points
scored at home versus on the road. They're averaging like
thirty three a game at home in like twenty five
or twenty six on the road.

Speaker 1 (01:44:48):
I'll just say this, if they hold Josh Allen, check
the splits on. Okay, here's what they did the first
eleven weeks and then you're gonna have potentially three MVPs
in a row Lamar Allen in May, and what they
did against those three guys would be very funny. I'm rooting,
not just like rooting against Josh Allen, rooting for it.
I like weird stuff. The Bengals defense being historically terrible,
then playing three MVPs in a row and being good

(01:45:10):
against them would just be awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
So this game is in Buffalo, so this is irrelevant,
but just for the Patriots in week fifteen. The Bills
right now are scoring thirty two and a half points
at home. They are scoring twenty three point seven, almost
ten point difference at home versus road, so that's an
interesting home road.

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
So their home games are Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans, the Patriots,
the Chiefs, the Bucks, and then their road games are
the Jets. They play some weak road games Jets, Falcons, Panthers, Dolphins, Texans, Steelers.

Speaker 2 (01:45:41):
And they lost the Dolphins and the Falcons on the
Bolls on the road and Texans.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
That's true. So they only have two road games left,
Patriots and Browns. The really quickly on the Bills. Yeah,
because I've watched a little bit of their tape this week. Yeah,
their offense, and to their credit, they did it on
Sunday against the Steelers and they ran for two undred
fifty yards.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
I can call out the plates that they're running. They
run like five plays. It's really kind of bizarre, and
I think a lot of it has to do with
the fact that they're their receivers. It's been such a
revolving door that they just right, they just haven't been
able to build.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
That's not fair. I do like Brandon Cooks.

Speaker 2 (01:46:18):
They haven't been able to build though, because the guys
haven't been in the building, so they haven't been able
to You know, Gave Davis is playing now and he
wasn't there to start the year. Uh, Brandon Cooks is there. Yeah,
So like they haven't had that time. Whereas like a
team like the Patriots has been going since training camp,
they can build over the course of the season and
add more into the playbook over the course of the season.

(01:46:38):
The Bills have not had that luxury. If it's third
and medium, they're running mesh. I'm telling you right now,
they're running mesh. It might be different kinds of mesh, right,
there's different variations, but they're running some variation of MESH.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
And have the Patriots been against mesh this year?

Speaker 2 (01:46:52):
Okay, they don't. They haven't seen the ton, but they're
running mesh on in the run game, they're running outside
zone weaker will. It's one of the two. And it's
like uncanny, how like these repeat players are just all
over their film and to their credit, you know, James
Cook and Josh Allen are really good players, and so
sometimes it works. But the Texans had them in hell

(01:47:13):
because they just knew what was coming, you know, And
it's over and over again. So Joe Brady's under a
lot of fire. He got crowned. You kind of It's
kind of like a Bobby Slowick fall from Grace going
on right now with Joe Brady, where you have one
really good year and then immediately follow that up with
a down year. So we'll see what happens with Buffalo.
But I think the Bengals have a really good chance
to win that game. I think so too.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
Speaking of looking ahead, give you one stat I found
this week? Yes, kind of looking ahead for when they
get back. Yes, Mike Rabel coming off the bye as
a head coach. Do you know what his record is
he told me, so, I know, I didn't think you'd
remember six and oh.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
I remember some things you told me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
Mike Rabel is six and oh coming off the by
Five of those wins have been by multi score margins.
He won twenty eight twenty three against the Falcons his
last year there with the Titans. But Mike Rabel has
never lost coming off the bye.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
I like that. I like that too, and I like
Buffalo's run game, and I think this is what's gonna
happen with Buffalo. Then we got to wrap this up. Buffalo,
I think, is going to kind of reinvent themselves into
a run.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
For We're going to try to do the twenty eighteen Patriots.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
Yeah, I think they are. And then they'll just try
to use Josh Allen as like an ultra efficient, you know,
big play hunter, you know, or and that sort of
thing which might work for them. Rich in Virginia, go quick, Rich,
what's up?

Speaker 8 (01:48:34):
Hey, what's up?

Speaker 2 (01:48:34):
Y'all.

Speaker 8 (01:48:35):
Let's see you guys every week. Appreciate you guys, love
the show. I have a just a quick question. It's
a little bit of away from what y'all are talking about,
but around quarterbacks, we obviously have our man. He is
the goat. Every day I'm watching clips of this guy highlights.
He's Drake May is the goat. I do wonder what
y'all think about backup quarterbacks. Obviously we have Josh Dobbs.

(01:49:00):
Josh Dobbs has played for US and he's been clutched
third down situations. He's great. I am a DeVito believer.
So obviously we will improve in the offseason and in
the draft. Hopefully we'll get the thirty second pick. We'll see,
But I'm curious what we think quarterback room looks like
going into next year. Do we think de Vito stays

(01:49:20):
around or do we think we keep Josh Jobbs and
then get maybe a third quarterback in the draft. That's
what I got for you, guys. Thank you so much.
Keep doing you guys. You guys are awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
Thanks. Rich called the Right show with that question.

Speaker 1 (01:49:32):
As a team at eleven and two, I love the mix.

Speaker 2 (01:49:34):
They half a quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
I think it's gonna be the same. Maybe there's like
a rookie UDFA that's on the practice squad hanging around, but.

Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
Yeah, haven't. I don't really feel this like big, and
I know some people do. I don't really feel this
big like need to upgrade the backup quarterback spot.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
Dov's on a multi year deal, so he said, But
I think to Vito's in RFA, so.

Speaker 2 (01:49:53):
I think the best thing possible is what Josh Dobbs
been doing for Drake May. That's what I want to see.
I don't really care about right, It's.

Speaker 1 (01:50:00):
Working for Drake, so so keep it as is. Yeah,
DeVito's at RFA.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
All right, Calvin and Florida go really quick.

Speaker 4 (01:50:07):
Calvin, and I just got a question, what do you
guys think Kayshaan Boody's extension will be because I don't
think there's any way they let him out of the
building with the way he's had a connection with Drake Man.
Just want your opinion on that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
Yeah, thanks Colin. It's an interesting question because he has
been productive and he has been the arrow has been
pointing in the right direction. However, and I just know this,
you know historically from the league you're standing in the
draft and what people thought of you during the draft
when you're not like, oh if it's not Pukinikua right,
it was a fifth round pick and is just an
absolute superstar. It kind of Lingers with you a lot

(01:50:44):
of the time in the league. So all the reasons
why Kaishan Boody fell to the sixth round a couple
of years ago, whether it's on the field or off
the field, all right, I would assume it might follow
him in free agency where some teams are just going
to be a little bit wary, you know, backing up
the Brinks truck for kashaon Booty. Right, So I do

(01:51:04):
think that he's going to be, you know, nowadays, like
that wide receiver to money market. So maybe we're talking
about like twelve ish million a year. Maybe it's fifteen
in today's world, right, but yeah, in that sort of catechy,
I don't think that we're all of a sudden going
to see somebody pay Kayshon Booty twenty million a year.
I don't think that that's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:51:26):
Yeah, his production isn't quite there, you know, the injury
probably set him back a little bit. But he'll get paid.
I mean, he'll get paid. Yeah, we'll getting contract.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Yeah, agreed. All right, that's going to do it for
today's show. We will be back next week. No game
to recap next week, so we're gonna probably talk a
lot about the rest of the NFL and do that
whole thing. We'll talk, of course about the Patriots and
the Bills. Hat and T shirt game right, Hat and
T shirt game for the Patriots against the Bills, chance
to clinch the AFC East Patriots Unfiltered, it'll be up

(01:51:56):
in eight minutes. We'll see you guys then, or I'll
see you then. We'll see you guys next week here
on catchwoin tube. Hey, this is Alex. Thanks for tuning
into the show. If you really want to help us,
make sure.

Speaker 6 (01:52:08):
You like us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you
get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
Also, make sure you follow us on the New.

Speaker 8 (01:52:14):
England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and everything
else we do here at the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (01:52:18):
Thanks a lot.

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