Patriots Catch-22 1/29: Senior Bowl Updates/Observations, NFL Draft Talk, Conference Championship Recaps

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Bart.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it, joined as always by
our bar gap match no risk.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barr. Fifteen.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's like two percent of the entire entirety of the
plays that they called, right. They called a.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Thousand offensive plays.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm not very good at math, but I can tell
you that that's like two percent, right whatever.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
This point at this point was probably Microsoft Exel's sponsor,
given how often we talk about them, although the way
I talked about him, I don't know how well that
would work. It's Alex Bart in the host chair today
on Catch twenty two. A little bit of a shotgun
start here. That's uh, you know, partially on me, but
we are off and running on a senior partially on me.
We are often running on a Senior Bowl edition of
Catch twenty two. It wasn't Evan's fault, that wasn't MA fault.

(01:00):
I'm just gonna say it was partially my fault. But
we are underway here. It's Alex Bart in the host
chair because Evan Lazar is down in mobile at the
Senior Bowl. That's gonna be the heavy majority of the
show today will be Senior Bowl topics. We'll get you know.
There are a couple more coaches that were hired the
last couple of days. Drake May is going to the
Pro Bowl. We can get to that as well. Your

(01:20):
calls eight five to five, Pats five hundred. But before
we get underway, I let people know our show is
brought to you by Toyota. Hey, Patriots fans. If you
want to see Toyota's best offers, including those Nazeen on TV,
go to buy at toyota dot com. It's Toyota's official
website for deals from the official vehicle of the New
England Patriots, Toyota, Let's Go Places and bud Light, Easy

(01:41):
to Drink, easy to Enjoy. Bud Light, the official beer
sponsor of the New England Patriots. So two days down
in mobile, two practices down, one to go tomorrow and
then the game on Saturday. So things hardly in the
books yet a lot of time for things to change.
But I think let's start here, Evan, because the Patriots,

(02:03):
you could argue, their biggest need on both sides of
the balls in the trenches we kind of knew when
you looked at the rosters going into this week. They
always do a good job of putting together complete roster,
but this year specifically, it felt like the strength down
there is in the trenches. And I think that that
just big pick trum curious if you're agree seeing it
in person. I think that's held up through two days.

(02:23):
On both sides of the ball, for the most part,
a couple of the players here and there, for the
most part, the best players at the Senior Bowls here
are offensive lineman and defensive linemen.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, I would definitely say that's true on the defensive
side of the ball, the defensive line group, and I
want to get into individual players here with you. We
can just kind of get through both rosters and I'll
just start throwing names at you that have stood out
to me here. But just watching this defensive line group
for both teams, but especially the American team, there's been

(02:55):
some dominant, dominant stretches of practice for this defensive line
and this is cutting off that. You know, there's no
Abdul Carter here, right, you know, like we're cutting off
the top of the class and really starting to talk
about you know, the kid from Texas A and m
is probably the best mastiest rated player. Yeah, are Green
from Marshall, Right, Like those are those are the two

(03:17):
top guys here that are fringe first round pick. So
we're not even talking about the top of the top.
And it's been a dominant group. Your boy Dion Walker
has some things to work out, but he's looked really
good in terms of his size and his strength and
all that translating. And there's a couple offensive linemen though
that I would agree. I mean, as Zabel kid from

(03:38):
North Dakota State is outstanding, He's fantastic. Some of the
tackles I think I've been up and down. We can
get to that here in a minute. But overall, my my,
my big picture of takeaway about the tackle group. You know,
I'm just curious about your thoughts. I think just getting
the general feeling down here about it. It seems to

(03:59):
me like there is some trepidation about this tackle group,
especially at the top of the draft. And we've discussed
this many times, like as Will Campbell tackle is the guards.
Kelvin Banks truly one of those types of guys, And
then you were kind of hoping that Ursery and Connorly
were going to take that next step this week of
putting themselves into that like top twenty top twenty five conversation.

(04:22):
And I think it's been a little bit up and
down for those too. So I'm not saying that there
aren't any good tackles in every draft. There's always gonna
be players. But in this draft, it definitely feels like
the tackle sweet spot might be closer to the Patriots
second round pick than their first round pick. And now
it just comes down to how do you divvy that
up right? How do you sort of figure that out

(04:42):
from there?

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I think, I mean, we can start with the tackles.
I think that's probably what a lot of people are
interested in. I thought Erser and Connorley specifically, I thought
they were both pretty good yesterday. I thought yesterday you
more or less saw what you wanted to see from
them today. And they're both together on the national team.
They did that thing yesterday in the national team coaching
staff where they they cross trained everybody, and you know,

(05:06):
the left tackle spent a lot of time on the
right side, the right tackle spent a lot of time
on the left side. We obviously saw that here with
Alex van Pelt last year. Now it's it's a completely
different setting, and I understand why they do it, you know,
because teams want to see these guys on both sides
and figure out if these guys can be swing tackles.
And some guys took advantage of that opportunity. I don't
want to say like everybody struggled, but there's obviously the

(05:27):
clip going around of Josh Connolly getting blown up by
Mike Green. Arianta Ursery struggled a little bit as well
in that setting, but that's at right tackle. So you know,
the big takeaway for me from today is Connorley a
Nursery aren't right tackles, Which, okay, it's fine, Like, you know,
I don't think you're drafting them a play right tackle.
I don't think anybody. It's good to see and if

(05:49):
you're you know, if you're an evaluator, you definitely want
to see it. But I don't put and I maybe
this comes off as just me defending players I like,
but like, I don't put as much stock and a
guy that has played left tackle his whole career that
I'm looking to draft as a left tackle getting blown
up on one rep at the right tackle at a
showcase game.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, I would also mention, and not to take anything
away from Mike Green, who I thought was dominant today.
The rep that's going around of him bull rushing Connorly,
it's a fantastic display of power. It doesn't do a
whole lot for me, though, because if you watch the rep,
Mi Green ends up on the ground too. Yes, you
just kind of took you yourself out of the play

(06:30):
as much as anything as well, Like, yeah, you showed
off that you got some real human strength, which is great.
But let's if you're playing that in the game and
both guys go down and that's an arrow. If you're
playing Drake May and he sees that the right tackle
gets you know, bench pressed back into the pocket, but
the guy rushing on him falls to the ground. I

(06:51):
know what Drake May is doing. He's going right outside
the right right, you know, like he's just gonna run
right outside the pocket in that direction. So stay on
your feet. That that's the one thing that always you know,
balance and all that stuff is great. But I agree
with you that both those guys showed much better at
left tackle yesterday, just starting with Connory. I think the

(07:12):
one thing that really stands out to me with him
is that he's just got a really great urgency out
of his stance, just really quick, explosive, choppy, you know,
I should say opposite of choppy, fluid movements, like right
out of his stance, can get to the set points,
can get to his landmarks in the run game really effortlessly.

(07:32):
He's the one thing that just eye test wise and
just looking at him in person. He's not overly big,
and I'm not talking about that. He's Isaiah Winn right, Like,
he's not that small, but he's six four three ten
three fifteen, he's got the length, he's got thirty four
inch arms that that's not the concern, but just in
terms of you know, in the opposite side of the spectrum,

(07:54):
Ursery is a mammoth, right Like, he's like six six,
three hundred and thirty five, three hundred and forty pounds.
Talking about two really really different players, like Connorly is
more the athletic, you know, dancing bear type, whereas Ursery is.
If you want a guy that's gonna block downhill and
in the run game and move people and move bodies

(08:14):
at the tackle position, then Ursery is your guy. Like that.
That's the type of guy that's going to be able
to do that. Connorly, I think is a higher level
ceiling in terms of pass protection just because of his
movement skill with ersery. He's just a people mover. He's
a monster of a man that sticks out right away.
How big he is, just tall, stocky, you know all
the way through, very very powerful. But he does play high.

(08:38):
You know, he plays with higher pads and a wider
hand carriage too, that he's going to have to get
inside of those edge rushers that are going to try
to get underneath him and stuff like that. But both guys,
Like I'm not writing off either guy. I think both
guys have that potential. I just think again it comes
back to where do you find that sweet spot to

(08:58):
be able to target one of the those players? Is it?
Are you able to wait till thirty eight? Are they
gonna fall to you? Do you have to train up
from thirty eight to land one of those players at
the back end of the first round. Let's say, you know,
do they go into that Tyler Goeitton type range?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I think he went like twenty five or twenty six
last year. You know that that's a big question with
this tackle group because I don't think that there's a
lot of depth to this tackle group either. There's two
guys that have stood out here, and I'm sure you
you you feel the same way for a lot of people.
Benton from NC State has been solid. He might I

(09:39):
don't know if he's going to be an inside guy
or an outside guy at the NFL level. Might be
a little bit of both. I haven't been overly drawn
to the game from Boston College. I should know names. Yeah, yeah,
I haven't been overly enamored by him. I think he
plays pretty tall, and I doesn't have a whole lot

(10:00):
of bend and the lowers to kind of get down
and block guys that are going to be speed rushers
off the edge against him. But he's got all the tools,
he's got a good size to him, and he did
pretty well in one on ones yesterday and today, especially today.
So those two guys have popped in terms of like that.
Now we're talking early day three, mid day three, you

(10:21):
know that type of thing. I would say maybe late
day two if they sneak in there. But it's an
interesting group, you know, when you take Milom out of it,
He's gonna play guard or center at the NFL levels.
Able's gonna play guard or center at the NFL level.
Like those are two guys I think a lot of
people were hot on and I think Emery Jones might
play guard at the next level too. So you had

(10:44):
to take all three of those guys out of day
two in terms of what you look at at tackles,
and it bends out a little bit.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
I'll just just to go backtrack real quick. I mentioned
there were some guys that I did have success on
the cross trading day and you just named both of
them in Belton and Pillow. And Belton in particular fascinates
me because he's probably gonna go late day to early
day three. So it's not you know, you're not using

(11:10):
top fifty pick on him. And I know I'm the
guy that for two years has been so anti moving tackles.
So this is gonna come as a little bit of
a surprise to people. But well, well, let me explain.
On one hand, no, let me it's it's a fair coritique.
Let me explain. On one hand, I think going from
left to right is easier than going from right to left.

(11:30):
On the other hand, I think for this specific scenario,
where are you gonna get him right? If you get
a guy like Belton and to the third top of
the fourth, okay, and you bring him in and you
instantly start training him on the right side and just
kind of keep him, you know, let him do enough
at left that he's comfortable, but you start training him

(11:51):
on the right side. Now you have a guy that's
a developmental player that even if he's not ready to
start the ear you still have Kayden Wallace right and
get you basically have him and Kane Walls competing for
that right tackle spot. Well, he's also a guy that
can give you a backup on the left side. And
his ability to do both of those things, like best
case scenario, he's better than can Wallas, he's your starting

(12:14):
right tackle and boom. Even if not even if he's
a little worse than that, well, now you have a
pretty good swing tackle. Now you have a pretty good
third guy who can give you depth in both spots. Which,
as much as we've talked about them needing starters at
the tackle position, they also need backups. They might not
have backups at either spot. So Belton, for if he
was going to go in the top fifty, I would

(12:34):
say no, I'd say it's too much for that value
of the pick. But if you can get him at
one oh four, well that you know, that changes the
math on it. And now suddenly a guy like that
makes a lot more sense to me. So I was
hoping one of the big things I was going to
be looking for was if we saw Belton on the
right side. The fact he's played inside of guard too,
I thought he was maybe one of these guys that

(12:56):
was too big to play guard. And I guess Makai,
Beckton and Philly of proven that maybe that's a myth. Yeah,
you can be too big to play guard, because that
asked me the vision right when you move him inside,
that's what you're looking to replicate. But I think, you know,
pound for pound again, I think Connolly Nursery have been fine.
They've had their issues, but they're not issues that worry me,
particularly in terms of being a guy you're going to

(13:17):
take at the end of the first or the beginning
of the second round. I'm not worried there. But I
think pound for pound, Belton might be having the best
week of any tackle down there. Zabel's been the best lineman,
and I don't think it's close. Yeah, Zabel's been unbelievable,
but I think Belton's really really helped himself out.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, and you mentioned backing up at tackle. I also
would throw out there that look good. They could need
to fill left guard also, Yeah, I just I'm not
saying that I am prioritizing left guard in this draft.
But if you draft a guy like Belton fourth rapped,
let's say, you know, he's there for you in the fourth.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
One four is probably if you're the Patriots, it's probably
where you're taking them, unless he has like an awesome
combine and now maybe maybe he's in the conversation seventy seven.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, if you take Belton at one O four the
fourth round, and best case scenario, he's a tackle, right
and you develop him that tackle and maybe he plays
the right tackle in the Patriots system, specifically with McDaniels.
Worst case scenario, maybe he's a starting guard right in
the league too. And I know the worst case scenario
is that he's not in the league, right, Like I

(14:24):
understand that, I'm just saying, let's say it pans out
and right it works out for him somewhere, you know,
Belton eventually could play guard too or tackle. So now
you kind of have this player that can play both
inside and outside for you if Landon Robinson doesn't work out,
if Cole Strange doesn't work out, if they're giving up
on City. So you know, we've been over this, like

(14:45):
they have multiple spots to fill on the offensive line.
You can never have too many of those types of
guys that can play, you know, all over the offensive line.
It just is really valuable. Now, the other guy that
I want to mention who I think has been awesome
even though he wasn't on really anybody's radar. So like
props to Jim Nati and the Senior Bowl for bringing

(15:06):
Carson Vision here from from Alabama, A and M.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I mean I wanted to bring him up. I think
he's been good.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
It's spelled v I N S O N. So I'm
gonna go with Vincent, right, I don't know, Uh, well,
we can look that up. But yeah, he's uh he's
a really really intense guy. And that's something that I
think is always cool about being here and being able
to see in between plays and like what happens and
stuff like that. One of the cool things that you

(15:37):
hear a lot of the scouts chatting about is just
watch this guy's demeanor, Like watch watches his him after
the play, and this guy is always always you know,
going crazy, and he had yesterday. They do that showcase
like thing at the end of the each practice session
where they put everybody at the fifty yard live and
they do one on once. It's wide receiver dB, it's

(16:00):
tight end safety, it's pass rusher, offensive lineman doing you know,
one on one pass blocking. And uh, Vincent got a
one on one against and absolutely walled, just like completely
shut him down and he was amped up afterwards. And
this is a HBCU prospect, small school guy. Yeah, not

(16:22):
somebody that is on a ton of radars, like on
the consensus board that we use. He's like considered like
a fringe draftable player.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
I don't think he looks like the draft simulators looking
for that to the a couple of guys that weren't there.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, I think he's he's looked draftable to me, you know,
obvious saying you're him in the first round, But he
looked draftable.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
To let me ask you what position because they moved
him around quite a bit. You think he's a tackle.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, I think he's a tackle. I think it, you know,
best case, you know again best case, worst case, like
probably a swing tackle uh in the league. But I
think he's got enough athleticism, uh to play left tackle.
And he's he's he's built like he's a really built
out guy, a really athletic build to him as well,
and like I said, just nasty, just a really physical guy.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Any guards that stood out to you just before we
wrap it up on the line, you mentioned those showcases
at the end. Clay Webb has had wins in those.
I think I'm back to back days now. The guard
from Jacksonville State, he stood out to me. He's held
his own really well. Obviously Zabel, but he's probably gonna
go higher than the Patriots and realistically take a guard.

(17:29):
Any other interior guys, especially for the Patriots, that have
stood out to you.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, Well, just really quickly on Zabel because I just
have to dusch about Zabel for a second. I mean
that guy is just fantastic, Like just plays with great
leverage and great power and his strikes and just great
balance to his body control as well. And we're talking
about a player that played tackle in college. And hasn't
repped a ton in the interior, and I think he

(17:57):
can play all three interior spots, you know, put him
at guard, put him at center, wherever you want to
play him. You know, not to like pick on him,
but I didn't think it was as smooth for Wyatt
Mylom who moved inside here this week. Yeah, and hasn't
been really very consistent. Zabel, on the other hand, has
been dominant at times, and it just moves extremely well

(18:17):
off the ball in the run game and has held
his own in pass pro like I said, despite the
fact that he hasn't bought a ton on the interior
where things are quicker, powerful, more powerful things like that.
So he's looked really spectacular. I think he's If it
was me, if you're looking at a guy like Zabel,
I would play him at left guard. I just think
that's where you probably get the most bang for your buck,

(18:40):
you know, make him, make him a Joe Toney right like,
you know, put him at left guard, and and have
a really high level pass protector at left guard who
played tackle in college is moving inside that whole thing,
which is similar to what happened with Tony Uh the
other gut one I would mention I was Jalen Rivers
from Miami. I thought he's been really solid, especially yesterday.

(19:03):
Uh he's playing guard here. Uh he looks really really good,
A strong guy, a good lower center of gravity, can
absorb power, Uh, can move a little bit. I think
he's been really solid. I thought he was definitely, uh
you know, a winner yesterday, having you know, looked at
him much today. Uh, since you know, I was looking

(19:23):
at some other players, a.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Couple of missus today. He had a couple of misses today.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
But okay, yeah, he's been he was really solid yesterday.
Uh Membu the Missouri guard slash tackle he didn't practice. Uh,
so he didn't see him, which was disappointing. But overall,
I look at this group and I come back to
you know, how how do we kind of split this

(19:48):
baby here? I you know, you need to target tackle
an offensive line? You know where do you want to target?
It is important and we have to talk a little
bit at some point. I know he didn't was not inmobile,
But uh about Travis Hunter, who I think is like,
what what do you think of Travis Hunter right now?
If he's a corner or if he's a receiver was

(20:08):
a big topic and discussion here in Mobile. It just
kind of fun, like everybody has a little bit of
a different take on it.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Just like we you know you and I am right.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
So it's it's an interesting one, but we can save
that after we get through all the players that are here.
But in terms of the offensive line, I thought Ursery
and Connorly just to sum it up, I thought both
those guys did enough. Like I wasn't oh wow, now
these one of these guys gonna drop, you know, be
drafted in the top ten or top fifteen. I didn't

(20:36):
necessarily get there, but I thought that they were okay
enough and they weren't complete liabilities that it was a problem.
And I would probably say in terms of the sleepers
like Belton was probably the most impressive.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
I still think Connorly or and you mentioned Tyler Guitton earlier,
like I think we're right back into that spot. That
was the guy last year. It was all right, trade
up from thirty four and hit your tackle, and they
obviously didn't do that. There's some reports out there that
they tried, but they always didn't do that. I think
we're gonna be having that same conversation again, they're gonna
pick whoever unless they take Campbell or Banks at the

(21:09):
top of the board. Right, if we're we're sitting there
April twenty, what is it, twenty fourth, twenty fifth, and
they take Travis Hunter or they take Tech mcmillany, like
they trade back to take Tech McMillan, right, something like that,
they take Mason Graham, We're gonna kind of be sitting there.
We're not. We're not gonna We're not gonna be done
for the night. We're not. And when I say we,
I mean I think you have to have an eye

(21:31):
on for people following the team. Is their move back
up the board. Are they gonna try to squeeze the
second pick in the first round, because I think those
tackles are probably worth it Elsewhere on offense wide receiver,
I think this is where we're gonna disagree a little
bit on a couple of players. The player to watch
coming in, especially for the Patriots with Xavier or Streppo,

(21:53):
who kind of profiles as that ideal Patriots slot. Not
only does he have the quickness, but he is the
tough to be a volume guy. You see, he's built
for it. He's built a little thicker, a little more
dense to absorb some of those hits. I think he's
done what he needed to do so far through two practices.
I don't have you know, it hasn't really any been

(22:15):
anything that stood out that did you worry about for
me from him. I know you were texting me that
you maybe had some concerns about his long speed in
that position. I don't really worry so much about straight
line speed. I'm gonna be running in a straight line
that much. And if he is, he's pulled away from defender,
which is great. I'm really high in what I've seen
from Rastreppo this week.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, I wanted to really fall in love with Rastreppo,
and I don't know if I necessarily got there with him.
The thing that it stands out to me though with
him is the build. Like yesterday, as soon as I
saw him, I was like, all right, that he's built
like a running back and runs routs like a receiver,
which is what you want if that's the role that
you're gonna play, if you're gonna be a volume slot

(22:57):
in that Julian Edelman khalilis here, you know, like that
type of role and I see a little bit of
shakier in him. She hears a little bit taller, a
little bit bigger. But in terms of Restreppo, I do
see some comparisons there, and a big element of it is,
you know, you don't see a ton of after the
catch in these practices, so if he plays in the game,

(23:19):
maybe we'll see a little bit more of that. But
like you did, you're watching these guys run routes, you're
not necessarily watching what they can do with the ball
in their hands. And I think that's a big part
of Restreppo's game. You know, he's returning punts this week,
you know he's working out of the slot, he's doing
all those types of things. So I definitely think that
that's a big element to his game. He's the first
and second level route runner, though, like there's not going

(23:40):
to be a whole lot. He tried a couple of
times this week to run the slot, fade and take,
you know, get deep on a defender, and he just
doesn't have a whole lot of pull away speed. And
he's got really short stride length as well, because he's
like five eight five nine and he's five to nine,
so that that's a part of it too, So I
don't think you're going to get much of a vertical

(24:02):
element from him playing in the slot. But again, you know,
like we've been saying with him, if you want to
move the chains, if you want to get that quick
twitch guy on the inside that can create separation, I
still think he can do that. I just see a
lot of it coming at the first two levels, especially
the first level of the defense, and maybe some of
the like screens and scheme touch type of stuff as well.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
And I'm I'm not too worried about that because we
know they probably need more than one receiver and can
you go get the vertically divertical guy elsewhere, right or
I for what he is, I still think he's a
good player. But I know you're maybe a little more
interested in Tess Johnson.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, Tess Johnson is a fascinating one because you can
just say it, are we doing Taekwon again? Right?

Speaker 1 (24:46):
You know where it will well significantly shorter Taekwon Thornton right.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Which is to me that's part of it. Though. Like Taekwon,
Taekwon's issues were that he wasn't just underweight, he was
also rail thin, like he was a stop he was
a stretched out one hundred and eighty pounds, if you
get what I'm saying. Like he he was a tall,
lean individual like that. That that was his big thing,

(25:14):
and so he was he was frail, like he just
didn't have the body to withstand the the NFL in
terms of staying healthy and also just the physicality of
the NFL too, at least to this point. Ye, So
with Teses Johnson, I still have some of those concerns, like.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Fifty six pounds.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, he's tiny, you know, he's one hundred and fifty
six pounds, there's no doubt, But it's a little bit more.
The way he carries it is a little bit more natural,
if that makes sense, because he's not six one six
y two right like he's He's built a little bit more,
you know, Like Take Dell, you know like that, that's.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Take much bigger than he is. No, to me, the
comparison is Devin Tompkins. And I know you're gonna say
too too at well, but.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, to two outlaws. Like another one that came to
mind is Take though that much bigger. I mean, I'll
look it up. I don't remember Tank Dell being that
much bigger. But maybe I have it wrong. I mean,
take Dell is five eight one sixty five at the combine,
so he's he was ten pounds heavier I suppose than Johnson.

(26:16):
So the way that he's run routes down here though,
it just reminds me of evolved that I wasn't at
that Senior Bowl when when Tank Dell came out, but
I remember all the us and ohs about Tank Dell's
route running and we watched on TV and stuff like that,
and he put on a show. And I don't know
if Taz Johnson quite did the Tank Dell. But Tate

(26:36):
Tell had an incredible week in mobile to his draft cycle.
But he was really really good today in team in
one on ones. He can't cover him. You know, if
you're not going to be able to be ultra physical
in the safety's not going to come down and knock him. Probably,
Like those are all things that you have to think
about in practice. It doesn't necessarily translate to the game.

(26:59):
But he's fast that he's quick on his feet, he's
got all the separation ability in the world. He's just tiny.
Like so I understand if you're a Patriots fan and
you're a hard no on a player like that, because
of what we've seen with Taekwon, I totally get it.
I'm not going to necessarily argue with you, but just

(27:19):
what has happened with what I've seen with my eyes
over the last two days, there's no question that he's
been the best separator in Mobile.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
No, But it's it's more than just that to me,
because what like, he's gonna be a top one hundred pick.
If you could get him later on day three, I'd
be more interested. But he's gonna be a top one
hundred pick. So that's a guy you need a plan
for immediately. What is his assuming we think Josh mctamale's
gonna run it, and we know we talked about this

(27:47):
last week, there's gonna be different wrinkles too with Drake maybe,
but like the same core concepts right, same corps offense.
What's the role for Ted Johnson? It's not the slot
because he can't get one hundred and twenty targets in
a season. He's just not physically, he's not gonna be
able to do that. He's not nacks probably like is
he a Z? But if he's that kind of speed
Z that you know Chris Hogan, Danny Amandola Role. We

(28:12):
already have Pop Douglas, so you're either to me, if
you draft Tes Johnson, it's to move on from Pop Douglas,
which when you have all these other needs and Pop
Douglas is one of your better players, using a top
one hundred pick to replace Pop Douglas doesn't It doesn't
move the needle for me. I think that's a redundant

(28:33):
pick and they need to be adding, not replacing, in
the top one hundred.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
It's a valid point. And I look at Tess Johnson
as a receiver that I would say is a runway player,
Like you want to set him up on crossers, on
go routes, on slot fades, anything that you can possibly
do to get that guy in a foot race like that.
That's exactly what you're gonna try to do with him.

(28:58):
You're gonna move him around, you're gonna put him in
you're gonna put him in stacks and bunch alignments and
things like that so he doesn't get pressed, and you're
just going to get him off the line of scrimmage
and let him run like that. That's just ultimately what
he's gonna be. He's shown a little bit more of
you know, horizontal uh, you know, lateral agility than I
thought he had in that tank, Dell Mold. But I

(29:20):
hear you like I I definitely see some similarities in
terms of usage with Pop. I think he's a little
bit longer than Pop, like his catch radius is a
little bit bigger, but he's a similar player overall. And
if you're the Patriots, yeah, if you're worried about that
type of redundancy. Now, I will say I do think
that they're trying to get away from role specific scouting,

(29:43):
you know, just looking at it as this is the
guy's a slot receiver, this guy's a third down back,
that guy's a situational pass rusher, this guy's a mic linebacker.
I do think they're trying to get to more of
a best overall talent type of system and what they're grading.
Elliot Wolf has talked about this on the record before.

(30:03):
Somehow you know, breaking any news here, but that I
do believe is is what they're trying to do with
this new grading.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
But there has to be a balance there otherwise you
end up with like ten guards. There has to be
a balance there, and especially if it's a guy in
the top one hundred. Like, it's not just we've talked
about it. It's not just best player available. It's best
player available for the football team, for your specific football team.
And if you think Tess Johnson's a great player, and
then you you know, you get to camp and you're
you're putting the offense together and suddenly you don't have

(30:33):
any place to put them. How's that the best player
available if you don't have a way to get them
on the field, or you're you're now taking Pop Douglas
off the field, who's one of your better players. I
just think that has to be considered.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, I definitely agree it has to be considered. But
my my rebuttal to that, because you know, I just
I got a need for speed.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
You just want you just want to track team.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
You just want any guy that can any guy that
can separate. I am on board.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
So here's what you do, because go go to Oregon's
track practice and just convince all those guys after the draft.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Oh, is that what they did with Tess Johnson? Because
it's possible that Oregon just did that for me by
putting Tess Johnson on their football team. But just the
last thing i'd say about Tess Johnson just as a
rebuttal teerpoint, because I hear where you're coming from. I
worry that, you know, looking at last year's draft, for example,
we've heard a little bit of this coming out with

(31:29):
reports and things like that that they passed on lad
Mconkey because they felt like he was a slot only
player and that they had that already with Pop Douglas, right.
And I'm not saying that that's necessarily exactly what it was,
but that there's been some reporting out there that that
was the mindset, that they thought that a guy like
Jalen Polk could play a little bit more on the

(31:50):
outside and be a little bit more versatile and all
those types of things. I would just hate to see
them miss out. And I'm not necessarily saying this is
tes Johnson, but maybe it's Luther Burden, maybe it's you know,
somebody else like in this mold as well. I would
hate to see them miss out on that type of
receiving talent simply just because they're sitting there saying, well,
he's redundant to the.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Guy, Yeah, I think Luthor Burden can do more. That's
a different conversation you're gonna get a lot more out
of Luther Burden yard of Tess Johnson. I just think
if I get the Lad McConkey thing, but it shouldn't
be Lad McConkie or Jalen Polk's. It doesn't have to
be one or the other. It's Lad McConkie or Jalen

(32:30):
Polk or Ady Mitchell or Tovandre Sweat or Brandon Coleman,
or like any of these other players that are available. Right,
you could look at it like, all right, so I'm
trying to remember exactly where the board was at that point.
I think Tavandre Silt was still on the board when
they traded down, right, if I remember correctly. I know

(32:51):
he went the pick before, but it was the pick
before they actually took Polk, not the pick before they traded, right.
So anyway, the point being, like, let's say it was
just for the sake of argument thirty eight, Okay, so
they had a chance to take Sweat when they traded down.
So Andandre Sweat's a great player, and they needed a

(33:14):
defensive tackle this year badly. They needed a player like that.
So you know it's not just oh, well, you know,
we don't think this wide receiver is a fit for us,
So we're gonna take a lesser wide receiver. If anything,
it speaks more to the best player available thing. You know,
all right, we think this player is good, but this
player and no other position is also good. And if that, like,
whether or not you have a role for the guy

(33:35):
should absolutely be a tiebreaker. So I if they draft,
if they were to draft Tess Johnson, they're gonna end
up burying somebody. And they just don't have the roster
where they can afford to bury guys. They need to
spread the talent. I get it's like, yeah, we think
this guy can do this. I'm more so approaching it
from from the It's not it's not so much. Yeah, Okay,
they already have a guy that can do this, so
they shouldn't draft Ted Johnson. It's they have so many

(33:58):
things that they the other things that they need filled
that can we look at another position, Can we look
at another skill set? Maybe it's an X receiver right
in that spot that I think they need to consider.
And sure any other wide receivers stand out to you.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, we can move on from from our Tess Johnson
debate that will probably have fifty hundred more times. So
I thought both Iowa state receivers were decent, Noel and Higgins.
Both those guys I thought stood out for different reasons.
Noel I think is smooth at the top of the route.
It doesn't waste much movement, gets in and out of

(34:34):
the brakes pretty cleanly. You can see that that second
level separation there from him there. And then Jayden Higgins
I thought was really smooth for his size. Like he
came in at six foot four. He's a tall, bigger
receiver six foot four, two hundred and fifteen pounds, and
he's really really smooth for that size. We do this

(34:58):
a lot, and I think it's applicable here. A couple
of years ago. Was like Za Flowers, Josh Downs, Pop
Douglas right right, I would say Teed McMillan is like
that the the what's the word, like the high end
apex prospect for this type of body type and skill set.
Jayden Higgins is like day two TEP McMillan, right, Like

(35:19):
he's he's the guy that's got the size that but
has that size and runs routes like a smaller guy,
but can use that size when called upon, Like it's
not He's not Mike Evans, Like, he's not going to
go in and moss people and stuff like that. It's
not necessarily his game. But I do think he can
use his length and his catch radius when needed. But

(35:41):
he's more a route runner, you know, and that tech McMillan,
Drake London type of mold.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Do you think there like part of conversation around him
this week was he's gonna get type cast is a
big slot in the NFL. Do you think he's broken that?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
I don't. He had a really good one on one
rep today on the outside. Awesome, you know, if you
want to be realistic about the type of player that
he used and not get too crazy with the cops.
Yoshiva's on the Bengals is like one guy that kind
of stood out to me as that type of player,
and I think Yoshiva's played a lot in the slot.
But he also had Higgins and Jamar Chase, you know,

(36:16):
on the outside taking up reps there, so maybe that
was just the situation, but those are the types of
guys that I look at for Jid and Higgins. I
don't think that he's a pure plot only guy, but
I can see why people think that that would be
advantageous matchups for him inside. You know, again, if you
can get him on a slot corner who might be

(36:37):
a little bit smaller, and get him on a safety
where he now can win that foot race versus trying
to stack a corner on the outside, I could see
those types of things being advantageous for him. But I
don't think he is just a slot guy because of
his size. Like I think he's got enough size to
play on the perimeter, but you're probably talking about a
piece you're trying to move around. But for all the

(36:57):
reasons why people love tech McMillan to call into our
show all the time and talk about Ted, this is
a tech McMillan. But on day two of this draft,
and I know a lot of people are sick of
doing that, you know, trying to shop at the at
the dollar store or the discount store instead of just
going out and buying the brand name. But I definitely

(37:18):
could see Jayden Higgins playing a similar type of role
in the NFL and doing it pretty well.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
You can only take one player top of the draft,
so if it's you know, you got to know who
these guys are later because if it's not if you're not.
If it's not you know, day two Tech mc millan,
and you're looking for day two Abdual Carter or day
two Will Campbell or whatever. Right, I'll give you one
more rector I like. And this is another guy I
like for that volume slot role, although I think he
does have some zero receiver potential. And that's Kyle Williams.

(37:46):
I'll be honest. I was kind of late to him.
I was doing some research before the game and I
was just looking at the roster and I'm looking all
these guys and I start looking at him, and I
start watching him. I think, I text you, I text
some other people and like hyper productive with really bad
quarterback play Washington State. The thing that stands out to
me is not just his ability to accelerate. Not just
his acceleration, is deceleration. He can go from full speed

(38:08):
to a stop like that, and then you can go
from a stop to full speed like that, and it
makes him really dangerous at the top of the route
and off the catch. So I'm looking at him and like, look,
he's a little undersized, like five ten one ninety. He
played in that Pack two didn't have the strongest competition,
But I'm like this, this guy looks like a top
one hundred receiver foringy top one hundred receiver, And I
go to our big board and he's at like eight hundred.

(38:31):
He's I think he's eight thirty. He was the last
ranked receiver on the big board. And then I start
looking out these things to change right right. Well, then
I start like trying to google him and looking on
Twitter and nobody's talking about him, and I'm like, did
I just did I imagine this guy? And it got
to the point where even during the broadcasts today, every
time he was up for one on one, they cut
away like they're gaslighting me into believing this guy exists.

(38:52):
But from what I've seen, he's looked very good. I'm
curious what you think, but I've been very impressed. You
want to talk about like a true sleeper. Again, they
won't even show was once on the broadcast, but you
know they cut back to it later. I see people
in the media posting clips and it looks pretty good.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah. I wrote down his name a couple of times today.
I thought he had some good moments today. Didn't really
see much of him yesterday, didn't really flash a Ton
in the first day of practice, but I thought today
definitely had some good moments. And I would say him
and then the other guy I was going to bring
up to you too is it is Jack Beck from TC.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, very different players, but he's been good.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah. Both those guys, though, I think did a nice
job this week of finishing through some contact and being
able to just kind of be strong and sturdy with
at the catch point.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Well is like a total catch point monster, like he dominant,
is a monster.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
He's a big dude.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
He gives me some some Jake Bobo vibes.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, Yeah, that's a good colm. With Kyle Williams too, though,
I thought I saw some of that, and and I
think that's such an underrated skill in the scouting receivers,
is being able to finish through contact, especially.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Start cut out, especially for a guy like just to
separate them becks like what six two two ten two
fifteen like Williams is a much smaller receiver doing that.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, Yeah, and I definitely think that there's some of that.
You know, some of these guys get into the NFL
level and you just you can't finish the catch at
the catch point because you're always gonna see good coverage
at the NFL level. It's not gonna be like college
where you're you know, no one's within five yards of
you right at some points, like there's always going to

(40:38):
be somebody in your back pocket and you're gonna have
to finish through contact. The other guy that I thought
that that really well today was Arian Smith from Georgia,
who looked like a Georgia player playing at a college
showcase game today. You know, I had those moments where
it was like, all right, this is like a you know,
four or five star recruit out of high school, like
that type of alpha athlete. Had a great down the

(41:00):
field in one on ones in the end zone where
he climbed the ladder and was able to go and
get the ball. So those types of guys always stand
out to me in these settings, like I love the
Tess Johnson's I just talked about him for five minutes.
But at the end of the day at the NFL,
you know you're gonna have Christian Zalez in your back
pocket and training camp, and the question is, you know,
can you finish the job at when the ball is

(41:22):
targeted when you're throwing at the football. And I thought
I saw a little bit of that from those.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Guys tight ends. The big story arguments. One of the
bigger stories of the week has been Elijah Royo, And
for me coming in, you know, I didn't really know
what to expect from him. He had a good season
at Miami, but there's a lot of attention played to Ristrepo.
Teams are doing, you know, they're blitzing cam Ward or
spine kim wardon things like that. A lot of his
production felt like, I don't want to say, a byproduct

(41:48):
of other people getting attention, but it was all right,
what does he look like when he is the guy?
Like he was the guy to me. We try not
to use one on ones too much, but he's a
guy that I think one on ones are big for
and he's been excellent. He's just been dominant and he's
the guy that's gonna fly up draft boards. But for
a team that you know, day three developmental tight end,

(42:10):
if he stays on day three, certainly feels like he
checks that box.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah. Here. He reminds me a little bit enough as
Jared Wiley last year from TCU, just like an athletic
past catching tight end. I'm not sure I see a
ton of blocking up side there with him. But he's
gonna be able to run routes and he's gonna be
able to get open, you know, with that body type
is rare. He's got great straight line speed too.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
I mean he's yea and all of he's fast.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
These analytic all these analytic models that they're they're trying
to pump up here at the Senior Bowl are all
giving him really high mark so he can really run. Uh.
You know, some of the one on ones have definitely
been you know, stick nod like double move type of
routes and things like that, where you know he's shaking guys.
But you see that ability, you know, the change of
direction skill there, and the strength line speed to be

(43:03):
a productive pass catching tight end potentially. I definitely think
he's a move like, you know, uh type of tight end.
I don't think you're going to put the hand of
the dirt and have him block very many defensive ends
or outside linebackers at the next level. But if you're
looking for that that developmental tight end with some athletic upside,

(43:23):
with some receiving upside, Arroyo definitely fits that bill. I think,
you know, there's been a lot of really good tight ends.
The one guy that is hasn't really popped a ton
of fan in though you know, I thought he would
be a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
He he looks more like a big slot receiver at
this point.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, he hasn't done a ton like I think that,
you know, with the really the entire national roster, the
early practice for people watching it on tv U, the receivers,
both tight ends and and wide receivers. You know, the
pass catchers have just been a lot better on that team.
I would say, uh, they're just better on paper even,
but I would you know, Terrence Ferguson from Oregon, I

(44:02):
think is the guy that stood out as like the
number two guy behind a Royo and in this tight
end group here in Mobile. You know, I don't think
it's been fannin which I don't know, maybe he just
trust the tape on the guy like that. But when
he goes when you go to Bowling Green and then
you come up here, you're playing against yeah, better competition,

(44:22):
and Ferguson I thought, has done a lot of really
good things as well. And I think he can maybe
block a little bit better than the Royo can, but
probably doesn't have the straight line speed and athleticism, but
he's certainly a good athlete and he's got a lot
of those same skills. You know, big guy, good catch radius,
finishes through contact, runs, good routes, you know, clean route runner.

(44:45):
I like him too. I mean it's a good class.
It's a good class it is.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I like Mason Taylor. I think he's been really good
if you want that. Just like blocking tight end. I've
kind of looked at this too. Do they just go
on Day three and say we want a third tight
end we can put in on the goal line, put
in when we want to go heavy. And Jackson Hawes
from Georgia Tech, he even got a call out today
when they did those one on ones at the end,
like it was all offensive lineman and then Jackson Hawes

(45:10):
and I think he lost the rep. But like just
the fact that the edge rushers, because I think the
players get to call each other out, right, Like you
want to go against the lineman. You'd thinked in order
to set yourself up for the biggest pop. But I
want to go up against this guy. And I thought
this was interesting. Here's what you thought of this. Somebody
on the broadcast today, don't remember who it was. Somebody
on the broadcast talking about Gavin Bartholomew from pitt and

(45:32):
called him a Jason Witten starter kit.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Okay, let's calm down.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
He said starter kit. He said starter kit?

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Okay, does that mean?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Like?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (45:44):
I assume that means like he has all the tools
to be Jason Witten, but he needs to be coached
up into it.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
He has all the tools to be a Hall of
Fame tight End got it all right.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
So you disagree. I thought it was a little strong.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah, it's a little it's a little strong. I think
the three guys that we mentioned that that position have
been the ones mostly that have popped for me at
tight End. Ferguson Arroyo, Mason Taylor, who I think has
been solid from LSU, Gunner Hilm today, I haven't seen
a ton of Gunner Helm. I don't think he practiced.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Might he might have opted out. I've been trying to
keep track of ye.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah, yeah, and the other bringing stool from cleansing. I
wouldn't say I'm like overlaid into it, but he has
those three guys Taylor, Arroyo and and Ferguson have been
the three best tight ends. But when you put that
on top of you know, the guys that were at

(46:40):
the Trine, Yeah, obviously Tyler Warren. Like you know, it's
a really good class. It's a really good class.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
All right. I haven't say something nice about one of
the running backs or more than one if you want.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
I gotta admit there's been two running backs and you're
gonna love this. There's been two running backs that I liked.
I guess that I've been pretty you can. I don't
know if you'll get it right, but.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
I think one of them has got to be Donovan Edwards. Yeah,
because of what he's done. There's people are saying, like
draft him as a slot receiver, which I think is
a little bit too far, but he's been really good.
I would love for the other one to be Ollie Gordon,
but it's not. I'm just gonna guess my favorite receiving
back there, which is Quinn Allen.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
I know it's not, but yeah, but that's a that's
a good shout. Like, He's definitely had a decent week.
I I it wasn't him, So Edwards is definitely one.
Devin Neil from Kansas to the other you like, do you.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Like a five eleven, two hundred twenty five pound running back.
I would not have seen that.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Look at look at me, look at me, look at
the growth right now and pressed Devin. Neil had him
run today where he had some space, but he was
one on one with a linebacker and he just went
right up the sideline around.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Oh, I know what you're talking about. That was good.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, I turned it into a really nice run and
I was like, all right, there's some juice there for
a bigger compact guy. That. That was what I liked
about Edwards and about Neil the most is that I
think both those guys are built like NFL running backs,
like guys that can withstand yeah, some some volume, you know,
and and be able to tote the rock a little
bit and and not have to worry about a ton

(48:16):
of injuries like I think. You know, Marx from USC
has has been solid as Brishard Smith has had some
moments from smu uh, you know, he's been a kay.
Marcus Yams from Delaware has had some moments. But those
two guys, to me, Neil and Edwards look like they
are our dudes that that could really take it and

(48:37):
and be a volume ish back or at least being
a committee of running backs. And this group hasn't disappointed.
I mean it's a great running back class. Uh, and
it hasn't disappointed. I think all these guys have had
their moments for the most part. But I really like Edwards.
I think Edwards is h is a really nice player. Uh,

(48:57):
probably a complimentary back to you know, in the platoon
or something like that. But you know, there's some really
good running backs that have been here in the last
couple of years, and he's one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Well, if they're gonna go back to that early down,
passing down back dynamic, right, I think you mentioned what
he marks the Quinn Allen if we're gonna do the
whole next James White thing, those are guys that kind
of profile that way. Donovan Edwards is like, stick with
me for this comparison. He's kind of like a souped
up Rex Burkhead. And what I mean by that is
rexor rex Burkehead could go. He was one of the

(49:30):
few guys that could go back and forth. He could
play an early down role, he could be a receiving
down role. And you know, if you're gonna draft Donovan Edwards,
I wouldn't he could bat like so the way they
haven't set up now right, Ramondre is probably gonna be
the early down back, and you figure Antonio Gibson is
going to be your passing down back, and then if
you were to draft on of An Edwards, he can
be the backup for both, whereas if not, you need

(49:52):
to get a backup for each spot. So I like
Edwards in that role, but I'm looking at some of
the early down guys too. I still can't quit Olie
Gordon Evan. He was just so good in twenty twenty three,
and I think there were forces outside of his control
that led to the depth he had this season. He
he looks like an edge rusher. He looks like he
should be lining up and rushing off the edge. He's massive,

(50:14):
and yeah, we know Mike Rabel has now He's not
Derek Henry, He's not two hundred and sixty pounds with
all the muscle. But we know Mike Rabel has experienced
with kind of those oversized running backs. And I just
I think somebody's gonna get a steal because Ollie Gordon
with this class is gonna fall to day three and
somebody's gonna get an absolute steal with him and you
know him platooning with Ramandra Stevenson in that early down role,

(50:38):
I think would be electric before we wrap up the offense.
Unless you have any other thoughts on the running backs.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
No, I think I've done enough on running back.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Right well, no, now we're gonna do it. Now, we're
gonna do the one you really want to talk about,
which is quarterbacks. To one big quarterback takeaway for me
and I said, going in for Patriots fans, what you're
watching at quarterback is does anybody have that ride? Does
anybody have that push up the board? You know, Will
Howard didn't end up going, which I get, so you know,
is it Jalen Millrow, is it Jackson Dart? Was somebody
gonna push their way up the board, maybe into the

(51:08):
top ten, change the value of that fourth overall pick. No, No,
that's that has not happened to this point. It has
been a rough couple of days for the quarterbacks. Although
my guy el Gerzma is hanging in there. He's made
a couple of throws.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
So I this this quarterback group. I'm sorry. I don't
like to say this about players because I try to
be nicer. But this quarterback group has been awful.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
It's been real, it's been awful, and some.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Of it, you know, I get it. I didn't think
that Michael Pennix or Boon Nicks was awesome down here
last year either, because it's you never worked with these receivers.
You're in these like abbreviated offenses that you're learning on
the fly. The timing, the rhythm of the passing game
is there's no way it's gonna be there. There's just
no way. But that being said, Joe Milton was better

(52:01):
last year down here. And I don't say that as
like a knock on our boy Joe Milton. I'm just
saying like that he would have been the best quarterback
in Mobile this year based off his practice performance last year, Right,
Like that makes any sense? Uh, It's just been really
really rough for the entire Like, I can't really think
of one notable throw. I think Riley Leonard has probably

(52:22):
been the best, which is not saying much.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yesterday, Okay, your boy, you're give me give me one
thing cause I'm not there, Like I can't watch everything.
Give me one thing on him.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
He made a really nice throw rolling right on the
sideline that you texted me about when it happened because
they were so excited and that that was a really nice.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Because I know you're not watching him, so I to
make sure you notice it.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Jalen Milroth throws a really nice ball like he can
really rip it but doesn't know where it's going, and
it's not he can rip it, but he's not Joe
Milton rip it right like it's not Zuka. It's it's
a good arm though he's got he's got plus arm talent,
there's no doubt about that. And when he has no
pass rush and he's just throwing one on ones, Jackson
Dart's the best, the best pass like if you do

(53:11):
if you took away the pass rush and he took
away the part of the that he has to read
the field and go through progressions and all that kind
of stuff and you just have him throw go balls
one on one, then Jackson Dart can can sling it right,
he can, he can twirl it, but he's he's got
no all the other elements of the game or lost
on and.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
That's that's all the ole miss offenses. Go balls. So
as these guys get ready for their NFL shot. I
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these guys are to.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Have our listener's grade. Are our read skills?

Speaker 1 (54:21):
You don't want You don't want that answer I've seen
in the comments. You don't want that answer unless you
want to be done with the responsibility of it. You
don't want that answer in the chat. Who's better at
the Adreids? Uh? Before we get to the defense, Patty
and Sean Havevan hanging on for a while. I gotta
remember how to take these calls. It's the one all
the way on the left, right, Matt. I don't want
to hang up on these people. They've been on on

(54:42):
on long enough. But this says air air okay, so
I'm on. I can't read that from here. The text
is tiny and I'm even wear my glasses on the show.
So maybe I'm better at the area. But Evan's better
at answering the phones. That's undoubtable. Patty and Ago on,
what's up? Patty?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
What's up? Guys?

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Than you doing good? Hey, Evan, Alex told you months
ago to take a look at are at the nursery,
and now you're you're getting a front row speed you know. Yeah,
that's awesome. He's one of the guys that intrigues me.
But you guys kind of hit the kind of hit
what I wanted to ask you guys about, which is

(55:22):
like I want to We're obviously not going to get
one of the top two tight ends off the board,
but I wanted I want to just you know, you
went over Elijah Royo, but also I wanted to ask
you about Mason Taylor, which is thought of him? And
do you think he would be a good fit here?
And I had another question, but damn it, I can't
remember it. But that's it. I'll take it off their guys.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
We'll get in next week thanks to the call, Patty Evan.
Any anything more on Mason Taylor. We did kind of
just glide by him. He's looking like a top one
hundred picks, so that still maybe a little high for
the Patriots at tight end, but if they really like him,
you know, it could make some sense, especially if Austin
Hooper leaves in free agency suddenly, that that pick makes
a lot more sense. Mason Taylor at maybe like seventy seven.

(56:04):
Your your thoughts on him? Also, just seeing Jason Taylor
there talking about him made me feel old and I
hated that.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Oh god, he didn't even put that connections.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Jason Taylor's son.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Oh my good Yes, okay, I know that hurts, right,
that hurts. That makes me a little bit queasy. Yeah. No,
he he had a really good day today, a really
good day today. Catches everything really really good. You know,
tough guy over the middle can separate a little bit,
kind of is a little bit. He's cheeky about it, right,

(56:37):
Like he he pushes off, but he doesn't push off,
you know, he kind of uses his body to box
out and make that a little bit of separation at
the top of the route without getting penal eyed for it.
There are refs here throwing flags, so.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Like, oh, they're they're throwing those flags all right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Oh yeah, there are lots of flags. So yeah, no,
I like what I saw to him. I would like
to see if he plays, assuming you will while playing
the game, maybe I can really watch that more closely
on the tape and see his blocking. But in terms
of the receiving, there's something there. I think there's some
upside and it makes sense. You know, Dave was really
athletic guy that he's a pretty athletic pass catcher, So

(57:16):
I don't know. You know, when you look at this class,
it can go one of two ways, saying with the
running backs, like, either there's like an insane run in
the top one hundred on all these tight ends and
they all get drafted high, or you know, the depth
of the class pushes some guys down. I guess it
depends on which way it goes.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Sean in Vancouver has been hanging on, Sean, what's going on?

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Hey, guys, I want to talk about the coaching. I've
been looking at some of the coaching and listening to
some people talk about some of the offensive coaches have
a bit of a West Coast background, and I'm wondering
about the schemes. I'm wondering if Josh mccannel's will we'll
stick to more of the gap downhill run schemes with

(57:59):
the Marriswell play action, or is it gonna mix in
more of the zone blocking that we've seen in the
past couple of years, which I think was kind of
a miss on a scheme fit, Like I don't think
the players really were able to execute that as well.
So I'll leave you for that answer.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Thanks, Sean. Evan, what do you think on that? And
also just your reaction to any of the recent coaching
hires or guys that are reported moving on.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Yeah, it's a fair question. I think. What's where I
come at it with this West Coast thing is I
feel like the West Coast offense you have to talk
about the two branches, and we've talked a little bit
about this on the show already, but you have like
the Shanahan Tree right, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt Lafore.
You have that side of the branch, which is under center,

(58:48):
outside zone, moving pockets, bootlegs, you know, shots down the field,
off play action like that. That side of it that
that dresses that all up with motion and all that
kind of stuff. And then there's the other side of it,
which is more like Dandy Reid, Doug Peterson, Frank Reich
version of the West Coast offense that really is more

(59:08):
of like a spread offense, like it's you know, I
think Lombardi likes to call it West Coast College right,
like it's a West Coast boot roots. Mike Holmgren likes
all of this goes back to Bill Walsh, like it's
that side of it, but it's got a lot of
spread elements where the quarterback is in shotgun and they're
running gun run and they're running RPO and they're running

(59:31):
motion off that and all that kind of stuff. So
a guy like Thomas Brown, who is just reportedly right
now a Patriots higher not official, but a guy like
Thomas Brown has done both. He was obviously with the
Rams for a little while with Sean McVay worked a

(59:52):
couple different positions. There was the assistant head coach at
one point for the Rams, but he's also worked with
Frank Reich in Carolina, uh and you know has done
that side of the of the tree as well. So
are they bringing in a guy like Thomas Brown who's
supposedly gonna have the pass game coordinator title. Are they
bringing in that guy to be to Shanahana the offense

(01:00:16):
or are they bringing that guy into Andy Reid the
offense right again, that's gonna be the big question. My guess,
just based off of Drake May is that they're bringing
him in to Andy Reid the offense, and they want
to build something that looks a little bit more like
what we see in Kansas City what we see in
Philadelphia with the quarterback and the shotgun and a lot

(01:00:36):
of that early down option stuff that those teams do.
I don't know if you people notice, but in the
AFC Championship game last week, the entire opening script from
Kansas City was RPO like right down the field.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I think it was like nine of the first twelve
plays something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, just just rp O them to death zone team
and you expect in Buffalo you're gonna play a lot
of zone coverages and let's just mess with the linebackers,
right and you know, play with their eyes. That that
was their entire plan to open the AFC Championship game.
So that's where I would go. I hope was where
they're gonna go because Drake, you know, Drake May is

(01:01:13):
to me is at his best as a gun quarterback,
So I don't necessarily want to live with him under
center like McDaniels has done in the past, or like
that that side of the tree does. But I think
we're too quick and I'm not saying Sean, but just
in general, I think we're too quick right now to
label all West Coast as Shanahan right, like all of

(01:01:33):
it is outside zone, under center, bootlegs, things like that,
when there's this whole other branch of the West Coast
with Andy Reid and with Doug Peterson and Frank Reig.
So that's what I'm hoping for. But we'll see, We'll
see what they end up doing. I talked to Brabel
yesterday the pieces up on Patriots dot Com to want
to read it, and he hammered that that there's gonna

(01:01:54):
be this is not going to be the Tom Brady offense.
You know, there's gonna be differences. There's gonna be I
think he called new innovations, you know, to this scheme.
And one of the things that really encouraged me about
that interview and about what he said about McDaniels is
that he went into the interview process and they discussed
all these things in depth about Okay, this is what

(01:02:14):
you're he called it your history, right like, this is
what you've done in the past, schematically, this is where
we want to go, and you know, how are you
going to get us there? And he point blank said
this quarterback is different from other quarterbacks that they've had here.
You know, this is not Mac Jones, right like, this
is a different type of quarterback and they want to

(01:02:35):
do different things with Drake May than maybe what Josh
McDaniels did with Brady or Mac or Derek Carr or whatever.
So I'm encouraged by a lot of things that they
that Rabel had to say about Josh. I think their
head is in the right place in terms of trying
to change this offense and update it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
And I think just to the Color's point, specifically, when
you talk about you know, how's that going to work
with gappern Zone Run. Like Thomas Brown, the Reporter is
pass game courting, right, So maybe more of that stuff's
in the past game than in the run game. And
obviously it's got to be married together. You can't be
running Gap Run and then all your play actions built
off Zone. But you know, maybe the idea is to
kind of try to blend those two things together whatever

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All right, let's get back to the Senior Bowl defense.
Let's just start up front, because it's there's been a
lot of overlap UH defensive tackles, defensive ends outside linebackers.
Who from that group has has wowed you the most?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Who has?

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
That's a good answer.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
This is what a group like, what a what a
fun group to watch? I just think that there's across
the board this group has just been outstanding. Like if
we just start with the Interier defensive line Peebles from
Virginia Tech, Darius Alexander, your boy Dion Walker, I think
all those guys have been good. Cam Jackson from Florida

(01:04:22):
had a nice day today. Walter Nolan got hurt. It's
i think during practice today, so they didn't practice, but
it was was decent yesterday. If you want to look
at Interier guys and one of the things that fascinates
me about how you know, we move forward here. I
wrote a little bit about this earlier in the week
before I came down here, about you know, the four
to three defense and the Patriots being a little bit

(01:04:43):
more one gap, you know, single gap up the field,
you know, trying to make more plays behind the line
of scrimmage and be more aggressive. I think this group
had even though you know Dion Walker is certainly the opposite, Like,
this group had a lot of those types of guys
you know if you wanted that type of player. I
think that Alexander Peebles, Walter Nolan, I think all three

(01:05:05):
of those guys fit that mold of like let's shoot gaps,
let's get up the field, let's make plays behind the
line of scrimmage, And all three of those guys looked
really good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Yeah, I think that that interior group, especially I'll just
say on Walker, because I spent a lot of time
last week hyping him up. I think you've more or
less gotten the full picture with him, and you see
why he's so hyped, but why he's not a first
round pick, and why those concerns are there. He has
all the physical tools in the world, but using them correctly,

(01:05:36):
using them consistently, Like he still gets beat at times
by players who really don't expect him to get beat
by the guy that's really impressed me. So if we're
gonna do again the draft heres thing, Mason Graham is
your first round this aggressive penetrating interior alignment. Dion Walker

(01:05:57):
is the day two guy. Cam Jackson from is probably
the day three guy in that regard. Sixty six then
came into three P. Fifty three if I remember correctly,
and he's been awesome. He's been great. And his explosiveness
and quickness, his ability to win initially and then quick
movements with his hands and feet to you know, turn

(01:06:17):
what might be an early edge into a full on
dominant win really stands out for a guy his size.
He's not just out there bullying people. He can do it.
We've seen him do it. It's in his bag. But his toolbox,
at least from what I've seen this week, is a
lot more developed than what I was expecting from him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, Dion Walker, I mean he plays a little high,
like his paths definitely get up. I know that's been
a criticism for him across the board, and you can
see that and that probably SAPs some of his power
that should be there at his size that isn't always
there consistently. But he had a running team drills today
where like three four plays in a row he was
just wrecking stuff, you know, like he was just in

(01:06:58):
the backfield and making things happen. And then he's so
strong and in his upper body that when he gets
extended and he starts walking guards and centers back into
the line, uh, you know, back into the pocket, it's
it's over. Right, you know, you're on, You're on, You're
on the tracks like it's done. Uh yeah, I thought
Cam Jackson was really good today too, in a similar mold.

(01:07:18):
But all these guys on the interior, I think I've
had their moments for the most part. Uh you know,
just looking at the group and it's it's really impressive.
And I thought, especially during the American practice, but there
was not a lot. There wasn't really a pocket and
there was not a lot of running room on the
interior for the American offense against the American defense. So

(01:07:39):
I'm interested to see because I think the national offense
has better offensive linemen than the American the group does.
Uh So in the game on Saturday, I'm interested to
see it that carries over. If connorly plays, a Versary
plays a Belton plays on the National sides able, you know,
do they still control the line of scrimmage like they
did in practice because the American group just dominated the

(01:08:01):
defensive line.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
How about the stand up guys? I know as Iraku
is so many people around here, like Princelyalimian, maybe I'm
gonna work on that. I'll have that down by the combine.
He's been unreal to watch because he's so big and
so physically dominating. All the old miss guys have been

(01:08:24):
pretty good on the edge, I'd say as well anybody
from that group.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
So Mike Grad's been was the best player on the
field today I thought for either either team. Really, he
was great. From Marshall fringe first round guy. Probably if
he has this is sort of it, you know, if
this is his last sort of pitch to NFL teams
until the combine, I think he's probably a first round pick.

(01:08:50):
I think he's kind of locked that up to this week.
Just been fantastic. I personally, I like what I've seen
from from Azeruku from Boston College, Like I think there's
something there. I know, you know, we kind of get
Oh he went to BC, you know that's interesting. But
the guy that's really stood out to me is Josia
Stewart from Michigan. I just the way that he plays,

(01:09:13):
the first step quickness, the way he gets off the line.
And we're always with these Michigan guys. They're always really
good hand fighters, and they're really well versed in their
pass rush repertoire already because they basically run a pro
system down there in Michigan. So you know, all these
guys that from Michigan tend to come into the league
really polished with their technique as pass rushers and have

(01:09:34):
multiple moves. And I think that Josiah Stewart is another
one of those guys that has that. And I just
looked it up quickly yesterday. It's not a perfect size
measurables kind of comparison, but the knock on him is length.
Like he's not overly tall or overly long, but he
does have some of the same measurements as like Harold

(01:09:55):
Blandry if you want to come up with like a
Vrabel comp. Right, So that's the guy that I think
you know could be on their rail on this type
of system.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Is the Joshua comp lazy because he played that same
role in Michigan's defense.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily lazy. I think there's
some of the same concerns in terms of his run
defense and and this week is definitely a really heavy
on rushing the passer versus stopping the run in these practices,
So you don't see a ton of that. I think
you can see that because he doesn't have no length, right,
So he's not going to be able to set the
edge and do all that kind of stuff. That's what

(01:10:32):
you're they're still looking for, and he's not their guy.
Like if they're still looking for Anthony Jennings types, you know,
like that type of mold, he's not for them. But
if you're looking for somebody to rush the passer, I
think he is for you. Uh. He hasn't been consistent,
but uh, femi Ola deeo, I'm gonna say that, that's

(01:10:53):
how you say it from U c LA.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
The one thing that talking to count and especially this
week for the piece. Uh he he mentioned effort in finish.
We're like the two big sort of cliche type things
that they look for, right not we're not talking skill
sets and all the details and right now just effort
and finish. Those two things were really big for them.

(01:11:17):
And that guy has been motor hot the entire week. Right.
You just see that type of ability. It's not always
been consistent, he's been he's been stymied a few times,
but I think that he's been really a high effort,
high motor, intense competitor type. And then the kids from
Texas has been good too. Currell Baron Currell. I think

(01:11:39):
he's similar. He had that Emery Jones showdown at the
end of practice today, which was cool. They went, Yeah,
they went three straight reps in a row because they
they went the first rep and it was a stalemate,
like Cerell beat him initially, and then Emery Jones actually
recovered really well, really well. Then it seemed like, you know,

(01:12:02):
they went the second rep that I think Emery Jones won.
I think Crell said, I want another one. They wanted
they wanted a time. Yeah, they they went again and
uh and I think Emery Jones beat him. But Sorell
was was good for the another one of those like
in the type of mold right, like he a little

(01:12:23):
bit more undersized, a little bit of a screamer off
the edge. But Shamier Stewart, that guy's a dude. He's
gonna be a first round pick. I would assume. H.
Kyle Canards has been okay in moments, he's flashing moments.
Just a great group, just a deep, deep group of
edge rushers, you know, throughout this draft, as everybody anticipated,

(01:12:45):
and I think it's lived up to the bill.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Do you see Canard as one of those patriots like
fits I did.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
And it's an interesting spot, right, Like, if they don't
go edge in round one, it's not ab dual Carter
in the first round. Is Canard in play thirty eight?
I would say he probably is in play at thirty eight.
He's he's a twitched up guy, like he's not. He's
he's gonna again. It comes down to if they're going

(01:13:11):
away from this Belichick stuff of you know, too gap
and hold the point of attack and set the edge
and be disciplined and stay in your rush lanes and all.
If that's if they're going to allow guys to kind
of color outside the lines a little bit more to
try to make more plays that I think Canard fits.
I don't think he fits if he's gonna if they're
gonna run sort of the old style of defense.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Well, if they are going to go to that more
aggressive defense, they need to get smaller and more athletic.
Not I shouldn't say smaller, they need to get quicker
and more athletic a linebacker. So that's a you know,
I don't. I don't know that it. Linebacker is one
of the stronger positions the Senior Bowl overall. But I
will say if you're a team that's looking for that
kind of three down coverage east to west linebacker that

(01:13:53):
seems to be who most of these guys are, you
know coming into the week. I like Demetrius Knight, another
South Carolina guy. I think a guy that he's big
for a guy that can move. He moves at two
forty seven, so you kind of get the best of
both worlds. Nick Martin from Oklahoma State, a guy that
missed a lot of time last year due to injury.
I feel like we haven't seen a lot of the

(01:14:14):
off ball linebackers because they're not really doing the rush trails.
But we haven't seen them a ton of one on ones.
And again there's not a ton of run defense. It's
really just the team stuff. Who stood out to you
from from linebacker?

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Yeah, Night's a good a good one. Shamar James from
Florida and Eugena Sante. Those two guys, by.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
The way, Eugena Sante is such a like he should
be playing safety if he comes here or defense comes
in right. Eugena Santa.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Yeah, both those guys have stood out a little bit
just because of their versatility, like I've seen them.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Do a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
Yeah, in terms of coverage and you know, play off
the ball against the run. What's what's Jack Kaiser's deal
from Notre Dame. Here's another guy that I thought really
played the run very very well, like not the most athletic,
but very very good in terms of like reading his
keys and playing laterally to the line of scrimmage and

(01:15:08):
you know, kind of mirroring guys and squaring running backs
up and things like that. I thought it was interesting,
you know, him and and rj Oben who had some
moments to the Notre Dame edge rusher. Like, both those
guys still coming here, I thought was interesting. I know
Ryley Leonard's here too, but he's a quarterback and he's
wearing the red jersey and all that stuff. But both

(01:15:29):
those guys just played in the National Championship game like
a week ago, but nine days ago, and uh, and
they're here right. So that tells me something like that,
those are contact positions. They're coming here to hit people,
They're coming here to be physical and to do all
those types of things. A lot of the of those
guys dropped dropped out, you know, the Ohio State guys
and Notre Dame guys, Penn State guys, like the lot

(01:15:52):
those guys dropped out for And I'm not pulling it
against them, but I do kind of think it's cool
that that some of them did show up. You know,
open And and Kaiser were two guys that fit that
out of you just looking for and I don't I
don't know if they're necessarily these guys through and through,
but if you're looking for guys effort, finish, you know,
just football players, right like I D tells you something

(01:16:14):
that they still came even though they were just playing
a game nine days ago.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Anybody else up front?

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Uh no, I think we named all the guys that
sit out.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Did you say Tim Smith earlier? I thought he had
a good day today.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Yeah, yep, had had a good day today. Made some
plays in the run game today. I thought we're pretty good.
Him and Cam Jackson kind of tandemed a couple of
of periods today. Uh Dion Walker like at that one
flurry of plays and I think he shut it down
a little bit and was like, yeah, all right, I
did my thing. I'm good. Uh So, yeah, those two

(01:16:51):
guys had a good day today.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
At a corner, the guy I've been really interested in
all week, he had a really good day yesterday, he
was okay. Today took a little bit of a step back,
but I thought he was solid. Is balal Cone from
Western Michigan. Now, last year we saw Matt Corner come
to this event and have a great week, and it
was Quinny and Mitchell and obviously right door it up. Now,
I don't think ballalll Cohnes, Quinyan Mitchell is probably gonna

(01:17:13):
be a Day three pick, But for what the Patriots
need a corner, Like you're looking for somebody to play
opposite Christian Zalez, ideally somebody with some size because they
have a really small room. Cohen is his experience in
man in his own he can play physically, and I
think he's done a good job for the most part
sticking with these powerful receivers, which is kind of what
you want to see from him this week.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Yeah, it's funny because you know, last year was my
first Senior Bowl being here and Quinnon Mitchell just was
far and away the best player here last year. And
then he goes and gets drapped in the first round
and has like a rookie of defensive Rookie of the
Year type season for the Eels. Right, So you know,

(01:17:54):
that that's always stands out about those types of guys
that you just mentioning that I thought Cohan was good,
and I thought Quincy Riley from Louisville was really good today.
I think those two guys if you're looking exactly for
what you described, and then I also have really been
impressed by Mac McWilliams from UCF, Like I think those
three guys have covered really well. If you're they're still

(01:18:14):
gonna be man to man, you know, press man, sticky
guys on the outside. I think all three of those
guys have really competed. McWilliams had an awesome rep yesterday
in one on ones and basically ran the route for
the receiver and picked it up. Had another good rep today.
He's an picy guy. He's you can he lets you
know about it right like he beats you and then
he tells you about it afterwards. I always like those

(01:18:36):
types of guys at corner, especially opposite not you know,
obviously Christian Zalez, second team All Pro, fantastic player, but
opposite a guy like Gonzalez, it would be the worst
thing in the world to have a little bark on
the other side, right, have somebody that's in people's ears.
But I thought all three of those guys and Tom
Is from Florida State didn't do as well today, but

(01:18:58):
I thought he was okay yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
So that's gonna have about the guys. So those are
more depth guys that we just named. The top corners
are Maxwell Harrison from Kentucky, Asray Thomas from Florida State,
Terry and Porter. You know I love like the super
long corners, right Darian Porter from Iowa State. This is
we're just gonna do juju. Brent's all over again. Who
I really liked that year. Any of those guys, like

(01:19:21):
the top of the draft guys stand out is you know,
if the Patriots really want to get aggressive and build
that cornerback tand of not obviously it for it's Will
Johnson and guys that aren't here, but you know, at
thirty eight, a guy like Maxwell Harrison or Azrie Thomas.
I know Trey Amos got hurt today, but he would
also kind of be in that group if any of

(01:19:42):
those guys think maybe justify the Patriots going up and
really getting aggressive at corner.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
I thought Azray Thomas had a really good first day.
I wrote about him yesterday and my retap of the day,
I thought he was really good yesterday. Wasn't as great today,
but you can definitely see cover skills there and the
ability to play man to man and Maxwell Harriston had
like a couple of flashes, right. I don't know if
it was necessarily super consistent, but he had a couple

(01:20:07):
coverage reps where you're just like, all right, well that
guy was going nowhere, right, you know, I just strapped him.
So they both have some coverage ability. There's no doubt
about data. But I would say, I'm telling you, I
like to make Williams right. I don't know. There's something
about the attitude that I liked it. I like guys
that come here and compete, you know. I think there's
there are a lot of guys that come here and

(01:20:30):
it's you know about the interviews, it's about the exposure,
it's about all that of those elements. And there's other
guys that come in here to prove a point, that
come in here to make some money. And I thought
Williams did that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
He's been good. He's he's been really he's along the
smaller side, right, is he boundary corner?

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
I think he's got the length if I remember correctly
the look this up yesterday. I think he's got the
length to play on the outside. But he's not He's
not super big, no, you know five yeah, you know,
on the smaller side certainly, so you know, we'll see.
I'm trying to think that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
I'm not anti him. I would just like it's not like, oh,
he's too small to take him off the board. They
need multiple corners, but I do want to see them
add size at that position.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's because of the the GW that
made me think of Jack Jones, But okay, he's got
he's got a little bit of Jack, like you know,
Jack Jones, a lighter guy like this is not a
super big corner. You're just looking it up. He's five
ten seventy at the combine Jack Jones was and and
Mac McWilliams is five.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
You know, I'll take five, like the five eight guys
on the boundary having to cover like t Higgins and
Devanta Adams. It's more just like getting away from that.
But they do.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
If you want the if you want the big guy,
then but Billy L. Cohen has been the best, you know,
he's been the best in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
I also think, you know, there might be some guys
in the safety room that can help them out. So
I'm as we transition to safeties, I really want to
see Andrew mccooble because you know, I've been on this
campaign that they need to get another true free safety
in here to replace Devin McCarty, allow Kyle Dugger, allow
Jabill Peppers to play in the box, do what they
do best, and it's the rotation and playing. Solving that

(01:22:13):
problem by playing guys out of position, I think has
been proven to not work, at least with the personnel
they've had. They can maybe try again with another strong safety,
but at this point, just go get a guy. And
there's not a lot of these guys in the draft
because the way colleges play. I think mccooba can be
a true free safety. Maybe he's not a guy you're
gonna put single high seventy eighty percent of the time
the way you did with Devin mccordy, but he can
do it enough that I think he'd give that to you.

(01:22:34):
Now he's not there, so I go down to like
the next level guy that can maybe do that, and
Billy Bowman from Oklahoma is an interesting player because he's
kind of a tweener, but he's not a tweener. They
have a lot of tweener box safety free safeties. He's
more of a tweener free safety slot corner, and they
need that depth behind Marcus Jones, especially if Jonathan Jones

(01:22:56):
doesn't come back. He's depending free agent, So get guy
like Billy Bowman on day three who can give you
some true back end reps and also give you depth
in the slot. He's another guy too, to your point,
that I think has shown up and competed. You've seen
the effort, You've seen the compete level with him. He
had a really nice pass break up the other day
on like a deep It was a deep flag where

(01:23:18):
he initially got beat and just showed unbelievable recovery. So
I really liked him. I don't know how many other
safeties have stood out to me, but I think Bowmen's
been really good and definitely guy that should be on
the Patriots radar.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Yeah. Yeah, he's been good, and I think you see
him a little bit in that post safety role too,
being able to help over the top in terms of leverage, right,
Like you, lot of these guys you know, are using
him as a as a leverage defender and to play
on the outside and take away the go routes and
the quarners and things like that because they know they
have post safety help and he's been there a couple

(01:23:54):
of times. Then I've seen obviously these passing games are
not attacking the deep part of the field the time
because there's no rhythm to it and the quarterback steak,
so that that's a big part of it. But I
thought Billy Bowman's been pretty good, and I think Dante
Trader from Maryland has been probably the best of like
the Patriot box safety types, right, you know, if you're

(01:24:16):
looking for in this this group at least, you know,
for that type of player not as big, you know,
he's not as built as like a Kyle Duggar or
Marte Mapu or someone like that. He's only you know,
five eleven, two hundred pounds, but he's really covered tight
ends very very well all week. And you know, with safety,

(01:24:38):
the Titans obviously had Kevin Byern for a very long time.
You know, he was sort of a Devin mccordy for
them playing post safety. But they also drafted, like I've
always loved him as a player. Monti Hooker like that
type of guy that is like what you're talking about
with bowman rights. He can play slot, he can play safety,
and I do wonder if that role evolves to more

(01:24:59):
of that type of player. I'm like an the Moni
Hooker who's kind of a someone that can do a
little bit of both and uh and play that way,
and I I like bowmen for that role.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Uh. So they haven't shown again. I'm I'm I'm back
here in Boston. So I'm i'm uh. You know, at
the mercy of the TV broadcast, they haven't shown really
any special teams. They did show a little bit of
punting today. Jeremy Crenshaw was good. The Patriots don't need
a punter. I don't know if either these kickers or

(01:25:30):
Patriots fits if they're gonna stick to kind of what
they've done in the past of wanting guys from, you know,
inclement weather environments. Ryan Fitzgerald's from Florida State. Kiten Davis
was at Texas A and m transfer to Ole, miss.
But anything you're not you're not gonna have anything on
the on the kickers for me, are you so?

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Ro I shouldn't say the name because I'm not a
hundred I can't remember a hundred percent. Watch kicker shanked
one yesterday pretty badly. They're one of these two guys.
Helmet I think it was a gold helmet. I'm gonna
say so. Uh then, but Frenshaw's punted the crap out
of them all. You want to, Yeah, if you want

(01:26:08):
to get into punters and kickers, he is. He has
certainly looked the part.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
I mean, you know, I'd love to. But at the
end of the day, they have a good punter. They
have Bryce Bearinger.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Is he a good punter?

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
He had like a little dip in the middle of
the season, but he was.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Uh. Kreshaw definitely had some some uz and ohs at times.

Speaker 5 (01:26:30):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
I had some of that going on, which I thought
was interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
So I tried to get the stop Watch out, but
the angle they were showing it from I couldn't do
it any any anybody else that we didn't get to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
No, I think that was pretty pretty thorough. I think
that that was pretty much the group. I think that
a lot of these guys, though, were as advertised, which
is what you wanted to see. Yeah, I don't think
that you want to come into a week like this
and have somebody come completely out of left field on you,
and then yet like you're gonna change your entire opinion
on a player or a class or a position group

(01:27:03):
just because of what they did here that you're trying
to look at more confirming priors. I think the only
the one guy that because I admit I came in
and I tried. I tried alas. I tried to to
not do Taekwan again, like I tried to throw out
that type of mark, that archetype. I tried to talk,
he's not that hard. Don't not this time. Evan, you're

(01:27:25):
not falling for this track.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
You are.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
But Tess Johnson, that was the only thing that happened.

Speaker 6 (01:27:30):
All right, And I guess if he literally was like
you could not cover him, like if if you if
he was just okay, I promise you, I wouldn't be
doing this right Like if he was just okay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
But he wasn't just okay. He was he was great anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
And he's going to run like a four to three,
he was saying on the on the NFL Network broadcast
yesday he's going to beat the Savior worthy time.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
I don't know about that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Look, if he does, I just and I hate using
this because I was pushing back on it last year.
But the track record of those guys is not great. No,
it's not great because if you if you get what
I worry about, the guy like that is beyond the size,
you get so used to winning by pure speed. Everybody
in the NFL is fast and is his game. We

(01:28:20):
did this with Isaiah Bond, who I think people have
come back down to Earth on. But like, he's fast,
and he's fast, and because you can't run by guys
in the NFL the same way you can in college,
you have to. It's good to be fast, but you
have to have another tool of preferably multiple other tools
to win beyond your speed. So I get look for
the sake of the exercise, tes Johnson is fast and.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Fast, and john he can separate the toppler out. He's
a He's a better separator than I thought he would be.
And that's why if he was just running past people
in a straight line the whole week, I would have
been like our whatever, No, but there was some more
nuance to it in my opinion than I expected, because

(01:29:06):
I promise you when I was trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
I'll give you that. No, he has been he's a
little more shifty. I'll give you that. He's I think,
get like, if they are going to take that guy,
if we're you know, being honest, I'm I mite the
side still worries me. He's probably more technically impressive than
Isaiah Bond if we're talking about those kinds of guys.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
So I think Guysayah Bonds bigger.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Right, That's where I kind of hesitation.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
I'm just just looking at it up Like Worthy is
five to eleven, one sixty five. So the biggest thing
with with Tess Johnson is that he's five to nine right,
Like if he was that two inches matters for like
the catch radious thing is important, like that two inches matter.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
Yeah, you know you're worthy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
He's not going to win a ton of to catch point,
but we saw it the A's the championship game that
he can. I know not everybody agrees that it was
a catch, but like he went up and made it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
He was able to make a play on the foot.
He also is like and he has really long arms.
He his arm his what is it wingspan that's got
to be the equivalent of somebody who's like six one
sixty two, whereas Tesz Johnson is I think built more proportionally.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Yeah, so you know Worthy is five eleven one sixty
five with thirty one inch arms thirty one and one
eight inch arms, and Tenz Johnson's five to nine fifty
six with twenty nine and seven a's almost thirty in charms.
They we're talking about, like, yeah in an interest. So really,
to me, the the body type com is Tank Dell,

(01:30:36):
and I get that Tank Dell. If you want to
make the argument for it, it's that Tank Dell's been
great when healthy, yeah in the NFL. If you want
to make the argument against it is that Tank Hell
can't stay healthy again.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
That's that's why I go to Devin Tompkins, who was
and you know that would he was twenty two. I
was a big fan of Devin Tompkins coming out of
Utah State. He averaged like twenty five yards of catch
his last year in college because you so fast, and
he wasn't like detailed his release specifically, but in the
route he was good and he just pull away from everybody.
But he's five to nine, one hundred and sixty pounds.

(01:31:09):
He ends up up going undrafted, and he was in
Tampa for a couple years. Now he's in Carolina and
they use him as a kick returner and he's used
kind of sparingly as a gadget player. And if that's
what Tes Johnson is, if that's ultimately what he is, like,
I could be into that. I'm not taking that guy
in the top one hundred, which I think is what
they're gonna have to do to get Tes Johnson. I

(01:31:30):
guess I need to go figure out who Day three
Tes Johnson is. I don't know if thought my head,
we'll find out. I'm not totally out on test. I
shouldn't say we're doing Taekwon again with Tes Johnson. I
do think there are differences there. I just don't think
that player, how that player usually translates in the NFL
is worth where Tes Johnson's gonna go. I think, just

(01:31:51):
like what happened to Taikwan and what happens with other players,
I think teams are Gonnat caught up in the forty
and the fact that he was at Oregon Big School,
made a run all of that and probably end up
overdrafting him and then he ends up being You texted
me like two two at will as a comp which
two to out Well is not a bad player. I
don't think you need to take two too out Well
in the top one hundred, especially when you're already it's

(01:32:12):
too much.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
That is truly too much like Pop Douglas, right, I
think those two guys are aren't too Two out Well
and Pop Douglas are really similar. The thing with with Johnson,
I know are doing a lot on Johnson, but if
he runs well like Tank Dell is basically the same size,
you know, five eight.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
One Dell like have a bad forty whatever? Remember that?

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
So Tank Yeah, so Tank Dell ran a four four nine,
which is at that size was considered uh like that
was considered a flag. Now. I understand the forties not everything.
It certainly is nowadays it's becoming less and less important.
But when you look at Ted Johnson, to your point,
if he has the Senior Bowl week that he had,
he measures similarly to Worthy and similarly to to Tank Dell,

(01:32:56):
and then he also puts down like a four to three, yeah,
then you're probably right. Then we're probably talking about at
worse to a second round thing.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
So I just don't think that that's where they should
be taking that guy. No, not with all the holes
that they have.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
So can we talk about another potential wide receiver for
the Patriots?

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
Is it? We hang on? Is it a Senior Bowl guy?
Or no?

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
All right, So let me just put a rap on
this real quick, because you reminded me of the point
I wanted to make. As you consider all this and
consider it if you've hunger, I appreciate everybody who hung
around for an hour forty minutes or an hour thirty five,
so that was late. Consider this a disclaimer and basically
everything we said and this applies to the combine, and
this really applies the next four months. And I think
it's important to remember like this, we're evaluating these guys

(01:33:39):
as football players. We're evaluating them as eleven on eleven
pads on full contact sixty minutes. Right. These events are
more about confirming priors in tie breakers. I don't think
you look at what a guy does in this event,
and there's different variants for different players, right. A guy
like Carold Fannin is going to have some more variants
because he's coming from a smaller school. A guy like
Nick Martin is gonna have some variants because he only

(01:34:01):
has one full season under his belt and it was
two years ago because he was hurt last year. Right,
So those guys can maybe move a little more. But
you're not gonna take a guy who's a projected, you know,
not even in the top two hundred and suddenly say, Okay,
he's a top fifty pick because he had a great
Senior Bowl. You're not gonna take a guy who's a
projected top forty pick and say I wouldn't take him
till day three because he had a couple of bad

(01:34:21):
reps at the Senior Bowl. At the end of the day,
you need to look at what the guys did during
the year to figure out what kind of prospects they
are with. This is more about like we talked about
off the top, all right, ariantae Ersie and Josh Connolly,
similar players who like sort that thing out, right, Xavier
Estrepo Tes Johnson expected to go in the same area

(01:34:42):
sort that thing out. We're not And I know we
just kind of talked about test Johnson moving up draft boards.
We're talking about maybe fifteen twenty spots, which is pretty extreme.
But that's the guy who's having the best Senior Bowl
week and we think could have the best If he
runs sub four three, people are gonna call it the
best combine. So and that's worth fifteen or twenty spots, Max,
we're talking about you know, it's more how do you
set the board? You're gonna take all these guys in

(01:35:04):
the same range, you have a rank Similarly, it's that
ranking within the range is what this week is for,
what the combine is for, what things are like that
as for So, I just I kind of want to
I meant to say that off the top. Maybe I didn't.
I forgot. It's a long show, but I just kind
of want to put that caveat on all of it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's really true. And I think that you know,
the tackle one was a big one that I think
a lot of teams and scouts were trying to divvy up.
Is you know, where are Connery ery? Like, where those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
I don't want to hear, Like I don't want to
hear Connorley got bull rushed. You can't draft him in
the top one hundred anymore. Yeah, that's it was one rep,
which to your point was probably not as convincing of
a win as it looks on film or says it
looks like in the immediate but like, I don't know,
it's it matters. Yeah, and yeah, I would be worried

(01:35:56):
about Josh Connolly or right tackle, and you're not drafting
right tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:35:59):
So yeah, No, I definitely think that that that was
a big conversation was those fringe first round tackles like
you know, Ursery, Connory, where it was able gonna play
you know, all those types of things. How do those
guys look this week, and how do we then go
ahead and stab them, you know, and and and you

(01:36:21):
know who how do we feel about all of them
looking at them at the same time against similar competition.
It's especially nice that Connory and and Nursery or playing
the same.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Guys because they're right literally to back.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Yeah, which I don't think is a coincidence. I think
that was that, you know, Jim Nagy was asked to
probably do that by teams to put those guys together.
So it's a it's a good a good parometer to
try to separate those guys now moving forward, But along
with the tackles, you know, kind of that being sort
of the conversation. It was all it was really fun

(01:36:55):
this week, these last couple of days to talk about
Travis Hunter with with these people, and I gotta, I gotta,
I know you love this conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Is this the receiver you want to talk about? The
receiver you want to talk ye?

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
So the majority of people, I would definitely say, feel
like he's a corner, But there definitely are people that
think he can that he is a better receiver and
at least could make more it could be more valuable
for your team at receiver if I put it to
you that way, right, Like, if you it's it's a

(01:37:32):
great conversation, like would you rather have an A plus
corner or like a A minus receiver? And how does
that needle move in terms of positional value and like
all that good stuff, right, uh? Is uh is a
fun conversation. I just I think it's worth having because
I think that there's there's one thing that's very true,

(01:37:55):
and that is there is no question about the talent,
right Like every buddy is enamored with Travis Hunter, and
everybody is enamor with Dabdel Carter, Like those two guys
are are at the very very top of his draft.
It's like those two guys, where are the quarterback's gonna go?
And then everybody else? And that's right now is how

(01:38:17):
this draft is looking.

Speaker 1 (01:38:18):
Look, I'm still where I was with Travis Hunter. You
want to play him at corner, I think it'll work.
You want to play him at receiver. I think it
can work. But you gotta know, and that needs to
be discussed, Like is they can meet with it. I
guess they can't meet with him now. They can meet
with them at the combine, they can meet with them
at you know, when they have their meeting here or
every many meetings they can have with him out of

(01:38:39):
as many as possible if you think you're gonna take them,
and like you, it's not all right, we drafted Travis Hunter.
What are we gonna do? It's the coaching staff, the
front office, everybody needs to be on the same page
for what he is doing, and you need to make
sure that he is good being on that page. You
can't draft him, plan to play him why receiver and

(01:39:01):
then have him stewing because he wants to play corner
and I don't think it's realistic for him to play
both ways full time. I'm still sticking through that. Can
you maybe use him as like you know, all right,
he's gonna play receiver full time and then you know,
all right, two minute trail, we're gonna throw him as
in as an extra corner because we could use them.
They're like, yeah, you can, Like that is fine. He's not.
He can't play one hundred snaps the game in the NFL.

(01:39:22):
You just can't do it. So I'm not against him
drafting Travis Hunter. I just if you're the process to
prepare to draft him is different than the average player,
because he's not average. He's not normal rights, We're talking
about a different kind of animal. And and and he's
a tremendously talented football player. You need to know the

(01:39:44):
best way as a team to harness that talent. And
I don't think it can be something you decide on
the fly. I think it needs to be something you
need to go in with a plan, and maybe that
plan changes as you go and you get new information.
But I don't think that plan can be all right,
you know, we got him in here, we'll wing it.
We'll just we'll just see what feels right. No, I
think you got to know coming in this is what
he's gonna do, and you've got to make sure that
he's on board with that because if not, now you

(01:40:07):
you have a guy used top five pick on that's
instantly unhappy and that's really not good, especially for a
new coaching staff.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
Okay, I agree with a lot of what he said.
I think that the main thing though, is that you
need to make sure that Travis hunder is in the
right headspace with what he's gonna do at the NFL level, right,
Like you know, I said, he needs to understand right,
Like to me, it just comes down to when you
get into the interviews and you get into the thirty visit,

(01:40:36):
in the private visits on campus and all that good
stuff that's gonna come yeah, you know, combined and on
you know, brodes and things like that. Like what's his mindset?
Like if he thinks that he's gonna come in and
be a unicorn and be like the sho heeo Tania
football and playing both ways and do all this stuff
right like he's he's he's probably naive, like he's kind

(01:40:57):
of dreaming.

Speaker 1 (01:40:57):
So I guess here's my point because because I like,
I'm not saying you have to let him dictate it.
And I'm not saying you one hundred percent dictate it
to him. I don't think that would work. But you, like,
it doesn't have to be his favorite thing. But you
go and you meet with him, You lay it out,
this is our plan for you, right, and if he
says that's exactly what I want to do, awesome. If
he says, yep, I can see that working for me. Great.

(01:41:19):
If he goes, nope, I'll you know I'm not gonna
do that. Like, let's say he says I want to
play full time. Don't draft me if you don't planning me,
if you don't plan on playing me both ways full time,
you have to It becomes tough question, Right, do you
draft him and try to fit the square peg in
around hole and say Nope, we're just gonna play a
receiver and you're gonna have to deal with it, or

(01:41:40):
at that point till you move on, and like, if
his plan, if what he wants to do is something
you don't believe will be successful, do you still draft him?
Because at that point, I'm kind of looking at it
and saying, especially the recent history of this organization's had
in the draft, I kind of look at it and say,
and I'm not saying this will happen. I don't know
this will happen, but it's a scen area have to
be prepared for. I kind of look at it and say,

(01:42:02):
if we can't get to a point with him where
we can make it work, I'm using the I'm using
the pick elsewhere. I'm looking elsewhere because there's no point here.
You can't develop them.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
Yeah. Here. Here's the reason why I mainly bring it
up because the way that I see the board shaking
out right now is the reality is is that like
the blue chip players in this draft, of those two guys,
it's Carter.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
I think he's going to be on the board right
because I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:42:31):
So, I don't know. But if he's on the board
at four, and we're assuming that Carter is not on
the board, you are not taking the best player available
if you don't take DRAMs Hunter. But that's just if
you take Mason Graham in that spot, and even Will
Campbell and that's spot which would obviously make a lot
more sense, you know, just from a positional needs type

(01:42:53):
of thing, you're not taking the best player available. And
I think a lot of people, myself included, are all
about let's just stack talent onto this rock team. They
have so many holes. They need talent, they need top
end talent. And I get it. They need to have
a plan. They need to have a plan that he
agreed that everybody's on the same page. This is how
we're going to use you. I just think that, you know,

(01:43:15):
just being here, I just think that there are people
that think that he can be a great wide receiver.
That makes me think, okay, like in the league, there
are people that think that he can be a great
wide receiver. That was my take from him watching his
tape originally. So I'm just not crazy, right, Like I'm
not completely out of left field with that day. That's all.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
And if he wants to play receiver, great, If he
says I don't want to play receiver, it doesn't you know.
Now those people have to ask themselves a tough question.

Speaker 2 (01:43:44):
So just to play it out, Yeah, yeah, just to
play it out because we have a few more minutes
and we can.

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
Do there's a call in the line I want to
take to it. We'll do this, okay, Tennessee, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
I think Tennessee is going to take out dual Card.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
I think Tennessee is gonna take out Duel Carter.

Speaker 1 (01:44:01):
They're gonna give Will one more shot for some reason, or.

Speaker 2 (01:44:05):
They're gonna sign a bridge quarterback, they'll end up with
Sam Darnold or you know, something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
We'll get to Sam Donald, Sam Darnold factors and elsewhere.
Thisess equations.

Speaker 2 (01:44:14):
But Uh, they have an offensive minded coach uh in
Brian Callahan. Uh. They just changed GMS again, you know,
like they they're gonna understand that this is a little
bit more of a of a slow burn.

Speaker 1 (01:44:26):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
They have every Boy Bergonzi is there at GM and UH,
and they hired Dave Ziegler, old Patriot UH executive as
their assistant general manager. I think those guys are in
it for the long call. Like I think they're gonna
play the slow play. They are with Tennessee and just
take who they think is the best player in the draft.
And at Duel Carter with Cleveland, Uh, in the Giants,

(01:44:49):
I don't think Sudor Sanders is going to Cleveland, Like,
I just don't think he's gonna go on to play there.
I don't think he wants anything to do with the Browns.
I think the Giants, though, that makes a lot of sense.
We saw them kind of, you know, rubbing elbows at
the shrine.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
But you said you said Sanders would drafts Hunter go
to Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
I don't know. I don't know. I just I don't
think Door Sanders wants to go to Cleveland. That's just
my opinion. I'm just just my take on it. I
just don't think he wants to go to Cleveland. Are
they gonna draft Cam Woard like with the Browns, Because
the Browns could also be in a position where they
just say, there's no quarterback in this draft that we loved,

(01:45:29):
we're not gonna reach, so we're just gonna go Carter
Hunter one two, and then the whole thing is moved.
So the Browns conversation is really where it is to me,
because I think the Giants are gonna take the Door.
I think that's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
I think the Giants are gonna take a veteran quarterback.
I think they're more that same Donald team. Because it's
so didn't they just do that with Daniel Jones. No,
because they kept Daniel Jones and Daniel Jones was inherited
by Brian Daball.

Speaker 2 (01:45:56):
And this is but like in terms of talent level,
Like I know dartl had a much better year than
than Daniel Juns ever had in the league, but like
you're just talking about pure talent like and evaluated the
two players, like I just.

Speaker 1 (01:46:08):
But it's it's kind of thing I guess. But it's
also proven versus unproven, and I think that it for
for both Brian Table and for Joe Shane. It doesn't
it feel like they need to make the playoffs to
save their jobs and you're you're trying to capture lightning
in a bottle. You're trying to get what the Commanders
got with Jayden Daniels. For every Jade and Daniels, there's

(01:46:29):
how many, like even as good as Drake may was. Right,
look at where the Patriots ended up. So I think
the Giants are veteran quarterback team, and I think that
that team makes all the sense in the world for
Travis Hunter if they have a quarterback in place, because
it's it's New York, it's a big market, you can
sell them, you know him with Malik Neighbors is really attractive.

(01:46:50):
He's playing offense. If not, they need a corner. They're
in that division that has a ton of good receivers.
I think Travis Hunter makes a ton of sense for
the Giants. I ALWAYO almost think he makes enough sense
to the point where they would go out and get
a veteran quarterback in order to facilitate it. The other
thing that happens is we know the Raiders like Shudur Sanders,
and we've talked about the Raiders moving from six to four.

(01:47:11):
What about the Raiders going from six to two? And
maybe the Browns just say, right if they are that
team that says, you know, we want a quarterback next year,
and it maybe maybe Travis Hunter won't go there. If
you think the Sanders family has an issue with Cleveland,
and that's kind of been rumored that Dion may limit
where these guys can go. Maybe the Raiders move up

(01:47:31):
and say, fine, we'll take Shaudar, and the Browns look
at it and they get the ammunition to move up
and take the quarterback next year. So maybe the Giants
don't even get a chance at Shouldar Sanders.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
Well. Either way, I think we're both in agreement that
there's a real chance that Shador goes before the Patriots picked.
Which is which is the best case scenario for the Patriots. Yes,
they need the quarterbacks to.

Speaker 1 (01:47:53):
Go, but they need they either need both to go
or none to go. I actually think one going is
the worst case scenario because if both go, well, now
you get automatically Travis Hunter or Abdull Carter, right, you
get one of those two. If neither go, now, for

(01:48:13):
those quarterback teams that are a little further down, the
Raiders the Saints, now you're selling the object of choice.
And you'd say, well, if those guys like the quarterback
when they move up higher, well, now that's a little
more affordable. Now becomes more realistic, and now that fourth
overall pick has more value if one guy goes. Right now,
the Raiders at six, they know you're not taking a quarterback.

(01:48:35):
They know the Jaguars aren't taking a quarterback, and the Saints, no,
they can call your bluff and say, well, Jaguars aren't
gonna take quarterback. We'll trade with them, and it's gonna
be a cheating pick, right, They're gonna force you into that.
So to me, the worst case scenario for the Patriots
is one of the quarterbacks goes. I think you need
both to go in the top three, or neither to
go in the top three to maximize the value. I

(01:48:55):
think both going probably is the best outcome, but I
actually think it's better neither go than just one goes
because if it's quarterback Travis Hunter Abdull Carter, now that
pick has the least amount of value in the trade market,
and both blue chip guys are gone, and I wouldn't
roll out Carter and Hunter going in the top three.
I still think that's realistic.

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
Yeah, yeah, No, I think you're one hundred percent right.
I just I think we've almost flip flopped on this
because I am saying that these quarterbacks stake these quarterback
steak and I'm not saying that necessarily. I think that
it's a lot that one or two of them go.
But I just I come back to four, right, and
I just look at it, and I say, whether it's

(01:49:38):
Carter or Hunter, whichever one is right. You as the
Patriots in the position that they're in in terms of
this roster right now, needing just all kinds of talent.
I just need top of the roster talent. I just
think it's really tough pill to swallow, Like to what
you're gonna let Abdul Carter get the five in this,

(01:50:00):
you know what I mean, Like, I just I don't
see how if you're Elliott Wolf and Conten and Mike
Rabel and you're on the clot and one of those
two guys is sitting there and you don't draft that player.
Even if you don't even if you have concerns about
Hunter in terms of yeah, and you know which side
of the ball he's playing on, I don't know. I
don't know how you just don't draft that guy. Now

(01:50:21):
we might not be in this situation.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
So I get so, wait, hang on, because you said
we flip flopped on this, Just to backtrack, wasn't your
original case that Hunter was going to be on the
board for.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
No, My original case was that I don't think that
the I think the league is going to be smart
enough about these quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
That's my that's if that happens, the Patriots aren't going
to have Carter or Hunter because who if not if
neither quarterbacks go in the top three?

Speaker 2 (01:50:46):
Oh yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
You also maybe McMillan mixes it, maybe if like the
Browns are fascinated, But right exactly so, I think the.

Speaker 2 (01:50:56):
Only other guy is that good factor into any of
this conversations, right, now and yeah, January twenty nine, there's
a long fricking way to go. But the only guys
that can kind of, I truly factor in right now
to me are Campbell if he measures out of the tackle,
and Mason Graham. Like, I think those two guys are
the next closest thing to what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
If but if check out Jeremiah.

Speaker 2 (01:51:19):
You know, like in his top fifty that he dis released.

Speaker 1 (01:51:21):
He thinks Campbell's tackle right.

Speaker 2 (01:51:23):
But I'm just saying, like, looking at the rankings, yeah,
like you know, it's it's crystal clear that you know,
right now the consensus is Hunter and Carter are the
two best players in the draft. Sure, and then there's
a drop off.

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
If if Campbell's arms check out, would you call him
a blue chip player?

Speaker 2 (01:51:42):
Yeah, I probably would. I think he's I think everybody
feels confident about him making his sticking in the league.

Speaker 1 (01:51:49):
That's what we're talking about here, we're talking about we're
talking about different been a blue chip player and a
really good player. So, right, if Campbell's a blue chip
at you take a blue chip player at four if
he's there, if his arms check out, right, So, and
I guess here's my one other point to something you said,
and then I do want to get to your call, Ed,
and I know we're u against We're gonna do just kind
of quick you mentioned with where their roster is, they

(01:52:10):
can't pass on a blue chip player. I would almost
take the opposite case, especially if it's if it's Hunter
and you're not on the same page with him about
what his role is gonna be. They don't need one
good player, they need multiple good players. And if you
can move down and get a future first or get
an extra top fifty pick, or get like a second

(01:52:30):
round pick something like that, you get what I'm saying.
And it's a combination of those. Now you've turned the
ability to get one great player. Maybe you're going from
blue chip to whatever the step below blue chip is
and it's a green chip, right, Maybe you're going from
blue chip to green chip, but now you're getting like
three or four green chip players who are still cornerstone,
foundational players. I actually see more value in that because

(01:52:51):
they need more than one guy. It's not you're plugging
one guy in and fixing it. So I think the
potential to trade down is still very attractive. Real quick,
Ed and Western as has been hanging on. I want
to make sure I get you in here, Ed. What's
going on? Hey?

Speaker 5 (01:53:05):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (01:53:06):
Yep?

Speaker 5 (01:53:07):
All right, great, Thanks for taking the call. First, I
just want to remind you, Evan, when you first watched
Will Campbell's tape, you said he was a blue chip.
So if the arms measure out, he said he was
a blue tip from the start. The question I have
is about Travis Hunter. I actually am all set on him.
I know he's the best player in the draft, but
I'm curious where you would rank him positionally as a

(01:53:28):
wide receiver in last year's draft, so Harrison neighbors a
doom day does he slot in there? You put him
above one of those guys? And then for corners in
the draft that we got Gonzo, how does he slot
in with witherspooning Gonzo. I'll take it off there. I
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:43):
Yeah, Okay, So I guess I said Will Campbell's blue chips.
I'm gonna be consistent.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
I think you did. You did say it with the
caveat of the arm line, which is that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
There's no there's no debating Will Campbell in terms to
him being sticking in the NFL for the next decade
on an offensive line. It's just a conversation that he's
going to be inside a round.

Speaker 1 (01:54:06):
Well, I guess you know. Well, let me to go
back to your takes during the twenty twenty two draft,
which we don't need to rehash fully, but in your mind,
can a guard well, can a guard be a blue
chip player?

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Yes, but it's much harder, Like you have to be
Quentin Nelson. Do you have to be Zach Martin? Do
you have to truly move the needle, move the equation
like you.

Speaker 1 (01:54:36):
Have to do you think he's that kind of guard?
If he is a guard? I don't know you said
you said he was a blue chip player.

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
Okay, but we're talking when we're talking about Zach Martin,
we're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
You think do you think he has the potential to
be that kind of player? I'm not saying you have
to say this is what he will be. Do you
think he is the tool that that kind of player? Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
Yeah, and and the and I also just what I
all so think needs to be mentioned with Will Campbell
as the intangibles, you know, like I think he's got
he's got leadership, he's got effort, he's got finished, he's
got traits, right, like, if that's what they're looking for,
which is certainly what it sounds like based off of
what you know they told me this week and what
they've been saying like that, he checks all those boxes

(01:55:19):
for them, and and that's what makes him intriguing at
the top. What was the other thing that real?

Speaker 5 (01:55:25):
All? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
So he asked about I think in this class you
had Travis Hunter second to Tech as a receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:55:32):
Nope, I think Travis. I think Travis Center is the
best receiver and the best corner in.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
The Okay, last year's class. He asked last year's class
for a receiver. So it's it's Harrison, it's neighbors, it's
a Dooneesday and then Brian Thomas, I don't think you're
gonna have him below anybody beyond that. You're not gonna
have him below like Keon Coleman. So where where do
you rank him there as a receiver?

Speaker 2 (01:55:55):
Well, it's funny because we were all too low on
VTEJ is fantastic. I would probably say that he's in
the conversation with me, uh for with the dunes for
wide receiver three, I don't know if he would be
wide receiver three. I mean, I would really have to

(01:56:17):
think about it. But I think he's certainly in the
conversation as I think to me, Myrison and neighbors are really.

Speaker 1 (01:56:25):
Yeah, he's not. To me, he's not that level. But
I think he's at a Duneesa or maybe a little above.
He's probably closer to a Duneesa than the other two.
But I put him in there and then the question.
The other one was twenty twenty two draft corners, so
that was yeah, Christian Witherspoon. Yeah, I don't think Gonzales

(01:56:46):
is maybe as good of a cornerback prospect as I've seen.
I don't know that he's quite there. Maybe a touch below.
I'd put him head of Witherspoon. That's me.

Speaker 2 (01:56:57):
Yeah, No, I think I think he's definitely in the
conversation to be the top corner in any draft.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
Okay, Yeah, he's really good.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
He's a really good player, you know, he just I
don't know, I because I think a lot of us,
I know we have to wrap, but like a lot
of us have sort of been all over the place
on Travis Hunter, myself included, because he's such a unicorn
and it's Yeah, it's a tough it's a tough call.
Like it's a tough one to kind of figure out
which position is he gonna play? You know, all that
kind of stuff is difficult, uh to figure out. And

(01:57:28):
but I think at the end of the day, everybody's
sort of coming to the realization that he that is
just a really really good football player. I'm not gonna
call him generational or anything like that, but like, that's
just a really really good football player.

Speaker 1 (01:57:41):
If we're ever gonna call a player generational, tim because
generational means a player you only see once in generation,
once every twenty thirty forty years, you know, Travis Hunterson
one player you call generation. Sure, Yeah, that that might
be the best word I could think to describe him,
although it's going to be more common, you know, because
you're gonna have all these kids that saw him do
it and want to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:59):
So all right, oh, really really quickly, really quickly, last thing,
I promise. Yeah, your boy Josh Simmons was walking around
this week intervening with teams.

Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
That I think he's a good player. I just he
so I missed the report back in December. He's a
torn pteller tendon, right, that's what he had.

Speaker 2 (01:58:20):
Yeah, that's that injury.

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
That's the same injury Cole Strange has had. Cole Strange's
out twelve months, and I know he had some setbacks.
He was out twelve months. So Josh Simmons had his
in late October. So even if we call it ten months,
he's just getting back to it in August. And I
just for a team that desperately needs an immediate answer

(01:58:43):
at tackle, he's not going to be that because of
the injury and for the team they are at this time,
he doesn't make sense. There's other teams he might make
a ton of sense for if a team has an
older tackle and a one year deal or you know
something like that. Yeah, he makes more sense. He doesn't
make if you're draft If you're drafting, he's not probably
not gonna play at a high level until twenty twenty six.

(01:59:06):
At that point, I'll just take a tackle next year
that's fully healthy, because either player, you're gonna get him
at the same time.

Speaker 7 (01:59:12):
So yeah, for him, I'm glad he's talking to teams.
I think he's a good player. Don't get that twisted.
I don't have anything against the kid. I just think
for where the Patriots are at, a guy that's coming
off the injury he's coming off of is a misuse
of ass They need guys that can make an impact
like day one, and he's just unfortunately because he's heard,
he's not gonna do that.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
So it's not I don't think you can really talent
on him as the season right exact time he gets healthy,
he gets ramped up. Like we saw this with the
guys from this year. You know, like it's obviously an
end season injury, but I Candon Wallace basically lost his
entire season, and you know it just it's impossible.

Speaker 1 (01:59:49):
So to me at that point, if you're gonna use
a top fifty pick on a tackle, because thats where
he's gonna go. If you're gonna use a top fifty
pick on a tackle, use a top fifty pick next
year because you'll get the guy at the same time
either way. And now you've you know, you've added this
guy this year. So if he if he like falls
to Day three, I could totally be convinced of it
because I think with those picks you have a little
more runway. But that's just I feel bad, like I

(02:00:13):
I don't want to come across as ripping on the
kid or knocking him, like, do you.

Speaker 2 (02:00:17):
Want another another Josh Simmons connection here? For so, not
only is he like a value pick.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
Right, yea rabel Ohio State.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
Not only did he go to Ohio State, he is
a Drew Rosenhouse client.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
All right, Well that's that's a bygone era. So we'll
see if that's still places. But I guess maybe not.
I guess maybe not. Look, they're gonna take him, and
I'm gonna look like an idiot, But I'm just saying
I'd like guys that can play day one. I think
this team needs that.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
Uh fair enough because we're already over.

Speaker 1 (02:00:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're even over the time I missed, So
I apologize, Matt. We'll be back next week. We'll be
back at new next week. I saw some people confuse
that it does move around a little bit this time
of year because you have events like the Senior Bowl
and the Combine and all that. But for the most part,
off season shows are going to be noon on Wednesdays.
We will be back at that time next week. Evan

(02:01:11):
will be back in the host chair. In the meantime,
he'll have Senior Bowl recaps on Patriots dot com. I
let my Senior Bowl recap once the week is over
on ninety eight five the Sports dot Com. Next week
we will probably have the bulk of the coaching staff.
They made some more hires. We didn't get into it
this week, so we'll get into that more next week.
Maybe we have some titles things like that, and I'm
sure more more draft and fre agency stuff as well.

(02:01:32):
So until next week. Frev Lasara Malex part thanks tuning
in Form, mappine Glass, thank you, and we will talk
to you next week. Bye. Thank you for downloading this podcast.
Subscribe on Apple, google Play, and everywhere else you listen.
Like the show, Please rate and review us. Listener comments
and ratings help keep us high on the podcast rankings

(02:01:53):
so new listeners can find us. Be sure to check
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