Patriots Catch-22 2/12: Super Bowl Recap, Pre-Combine Draft Tiers, Initial Mock Drafts

Tune-in as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth share their thoughts on the Eagles blowout Super Bowl win over the Chiefs. Plus, they go full offseason mode with an initial mock draft and pre-combine draft tiers.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex bar Blazar and Lazarn.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined as always by our barat.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
With that in mind, I want to segue to the
coaching staff a little bit and talk some Patriots. We'll
take some emails. Oh, take some.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm gonna talk about this tremendous defense they've built.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Phillies.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, now, I'm not that interested in The defense is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
It's good defense. I don't know if it' unbelievable. It's
good defense.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
That front's awesome, man, come on.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
It's good front.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh no, Evan, why are you saying because you were
just gonna pass by talking about that defense last week?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Because I don't care. I still don't care.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
They had one of the greatest performances in Super Bowl history. Relax,
they had one of the that was one of the
best defensive performances in recent Super Bowl history. Who else
is up there?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Really? I mean the Patriots against the Rams in twenty
eighteen for one, Okay, the Broncos against the Panthers twenty
fifteen better, greatest Super like, let's let's all relax. It's
just slit. That's all just.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's a good front. It's a good front, fifty pressure
rate with no blitz. Yeah, they're good.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay against a calm down against a backup left tackle
and a backup left guard and Patrick Mahomes playing terrible
in the game. It's a great want me to say.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
I want you crazy, I want there were a great
want to say there was a great defense and give
them recognition instead of blowing by him like you tried
to do last week.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Oh my god, I didn't like you think that this
is all premeditated, like it's not that deep.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
No, I honestly totally forgot about that clip, But boy
did that sound great coming back from that game.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Got them very fired up right out of the gate
there marine with that opening. My goodness.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Not unless you just respect that defense, especially when because
we're gonna talk about like four those like everything has
to be like, oh, this is the greatest thing of
all time.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Like everybody claims that I have this like bad recency bias.
This whole world has a terrible recency bias, Like can
we all just calm down? We did the same thing
with Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid, And no, it wasn't Paul,
it wasn't the Oh, it was just this chapter versus
Brady's first. No, there was genuine conversation going into the

(02:32):
Super Bowl about whether or not the Chiefs dynasty was
better than the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Fact fact, And they got punked. So let's give credit
to the group who punked them. Two things. One, we're
gonna talk about like three or four guys on that
defensive front is potential Patriots today, So let's let's give
them their credit.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
And I have a I have a take on that.
That that okay.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
And two you mentioned rec bias. We're doing recency bias
players today. Might two that are gonna get right under
your skin.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
We might.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
I know you have one of them, very interested.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
I gotta take a breath. We just started out. We
came in hot today. I don't even know why we
just did. You just got so excited over there about
your little, your little moment in the sun for defense
that mattered. Hey, Patriots fans. If you want to see
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(03:24):
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All Right, so we were together for the Super Bowl.
We watched the Super Bowl together, and I will have
I will say that I didn't really feel like I
had a rooting interest going into that game. As the

(03:45):
game unfolded and as I watched that absolutely beautiful massacre
of everybody's darling, the Kansas City Chiefs, I had a
lot of fun watching the Eagles kill the Chiefs. The
DeVante Smith touchdown. I definitely got excited out of my
chair for that one. That was like nail in coffin No.
Twenty eight to three reducts, like this game is over

(04:07):
over when that happened, and we talked a little bit
about it last week. I was annoyed last week about
all the talk about comparing the two dynasties and comparing
Brady and Mahomes and Reid and Bill and all this
kind of stuff. And I feel vindicated. And I don't
think Patriots fans. Don't let them figure wag you into
this victory. Lap, like, take your victoria here, take it to.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
What Jim Murray said on the Sports of this Week.
We had to hear this crap for the last two weeks, correct,
you know, Oh, well, you know, if you're so good
and you're so secure, be the bigger man, act like
you've been. No. No, we got finger wagged for the
last two weeks, called fanboys for Oh, you don't know
what you're talking about. You're just emote. First of all,
you could be emotional about that team for a lot
of us, that's like what we grew up on. Second

(04:52):
of all, Yeah, when we had to hear things that
were wrong non stop for two weeks, we're gonna be
a little annoyed. And now that we've been proven right,
like we knew we were going to be, we have
a right to enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, that I agree with. And then they moved the
goalpost and they changed the argument to oh, actually was
just comparing Mahomes's first seven seasons right as at seven seven,
eight seasons with Brady's first you know chapter and.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
No, no, no, no, you were him the greatest of
all time. Yeah, And people even say, well, no, that's
not what we were saying. No, that is exactly what
you were saying. You were saying he was going to
pass Brady historically, and that this is the whole thing about.
When the goat conversation is over, it should have never begun.
That's the point. Having it at this stage is so

(05:40):
ludicrous because the longevity matters. And to not include that
part when when you were all saying, oh, you can't
give Brady props for being a longevity merchant, you absolutely
can in the National Football League playing over two decades.
When you were all down playing the whole longevity thing,
this is exactly why we were telling you to shut up,

(06:00):
because it matters what you do over the entirety of it.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
So you're you're going crazy right now over this. This
was your station's doing. This was your stations doing, Jim Murray,
this was your station's doing.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
It was not just a sports time no, but.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Every single guest that they had on during Super Bowl
Week last week, that those were the questions they were proposing,
Bill or Reid, Brady or Mahomes I think Helsey or Gronk,
Chiefs or Patriots, Which one's better, which one's more impressive?
All this and again not to this point, there was

(06:38):
legitimate conversations about this being a competition overall that were
way premature, And when you really look at it now,
for Mahomes, he's twenty nine years old, going to be
going into his age thirty season here. If he were
to catch Brady, he'd basically have to win a Super
Bowl every other year for the next decade, yep, to

(06:59):
catch Brady, And that in itself, I think is totally
far fetched that that is going to happen. Are they
gonna have a puncher's chance as long as Mahomes is
healthy and Mahomes is upright? Yeah, absolutely, they'll be in
it every single year, just like the Patriots were in
it every single year. But to expect them to now
not have any drought like the Patriots had. The Patriots

(07:20):
went a decade without winning one. Now they were in
a couple, but they went a decade without winning one.
Expecting Patrick Mahomes to rattle off another five Super Bowl
wins to pass Brady and then that next ten years
of his career, assuming he makes it that long to
begin with, is why this was all crazy to begin with.
And I can't believe how much of a conversation it

(07:42):
was last week.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
And for all the renegging on the Mahomes Brady conversation,
which is absolutely appropriate. I actually think Sunday was a
worse look for Andy Reid than Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I could see that.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
And that's not say it wasn't a bad look for Mahomes,
but the guy. I mean, if we're going to talk
about him in the same breath as Belichick, Belichick's the
greatest defensive mind in the history of the game. Andy
Reid has to be the greatest offensive mind in the
history of the game to be in that conversation, and
I mean, I can see if you want to start
going down that road, but on the biggest stage. And
Is Felger called it this week the Final Exam, which

(08:16):
I think is true. We were allowed to grade these
games more than other games. We are absolutely allowed to
put more weight on these games, positive and negative than
other games. We got stopped. And did you see any
sort of real adjustment in there, any sort of creativity. Yes,
the offensive line was not good. Move Joe Tooney back
into guard. Try that mix in a screen. Do some

(08:39):
you rpo something to counter the offensive line struggling? That
was not the same creative Chiefs offense we've seen at times.
I did not see the appropriate adjustments in there that
you would expect from a coach with Reed's pat agree,
it was a rough look for Andy Reid. And he
has plenty of good games too that are on his resume.
But that one is going to sit there as a knock.

(09:00):
That one is absolutely gonna sit there as a.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
So I agree, now, just to be objective a little
bit sure, and be fair a little bit. I also
watched the Philadelphia Eagles in twenty seventeen go up and
down the field against the Patriots defense. Yeah. Now, granted
that was a Malcolm Butler situation that was maybe a
little bit actenuating circumstance what is but there was no

(09:23):
adjustments that night. There was no there. There was no
Belichick masterful stroke.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
And you know what happened after that. A lot of
people came out and started saying, maybe Belichick isn't the
greatest of all time. A lot of people that Bill,
and I'm not saying they're right, but Bill still has
to wear that game, I think more than any game
in his career.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
So if that was the case for Bill, this is
this Bill one out of his way to sabotage that game,
it is a little different, and Andy Reid might not
have had that option of Oh, we have this, you know,
potential silver bullet.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
In our back pocket and we're just not gonna play it.
Like I maybe that is makes it a little bit different.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Doesn't that make it work for Reid? He couldn't come
up with an answer. Bill had an answer, he didn't
go to it.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, we couldn't come up with that, I guess. I mean,
I just think if you're gonna hold it against Reid
in terms of you know, adjusting, lack of adjustments and
no answers and all that kind of stuff. I mean,
there were games, especially that one, where defensively the Patriots,
you know, Bill's side of the ball had no answers
for an opponent. And then offensively there were games where,

(10:27):
you know, the two Giant Super Bowls, where they really
didn't play a great offense in those games. Now, that's
not Bill's side of the ball, so I guess you
don't hold that directly against him in the same.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Also, they never got blown out like that, No, it
was never as lopsided that that I think was really.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
What stood out. And then we can kind of talk
about sort of the rosters and things like that. But
I think one of the main things that stood out
from this perspective, the Patriots Chiefs thing was just the
Patriots always stayed attached, like they always found a way
to keep the game close, whether it was you know,
the second Eagles Super Bowl where Brady throws for six
hundred yards and basically goes round for round with the

(11:04):
Eagles offense to keep the Patriots in the game, or
the Patriots defense you know, basically in two thousand and
seven keeping it a game for a period of time.
You know, they were able to always stay close and
attached on the scoreboard, where they had the leads in
fourth quarters, they had possessions where they could take the
lead in fourth quarters, you know, things of that nature.

(11:25):
And they never let anybody get away from them on
the scoreboard, which is just extremely impressive in something that's
a feather in their cap. You can't deny that they
were never embarrassed on the biggest stage twice. Now this
Chiefs dynasty has been embarrassed at the Super Bowl twice,
So we'll see. And you know, to all the comments

(11:47):
I see a lot from Chiefs Kingdom and those you
know that Brady will go lost to the Ravens in
the divisional round like all of a sudden, the nine
divisional round is making a comeback, ye or was that
the wildcard round?

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Part? We're allowed to say that game means more in
both directions.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
In both directions, I think it's just funny that we're
now going back like fifteen years to like a random
wildcard loss to now find a way to like compare
it and with that season, you know, there's context, Like
Brady was coming off to torn acl in two thousand
and eight, so he wasn't completely at his peak of
his powers coming back from the injury. As we all

(12:26):
know around here. Wes Welker blows out his knee in
a meaningless Week seventeen game in Houston. I will never
forget that. I was devastated at the time. I couldn't
believe it. I was like, oh my god, Now that
didn't Wes Welker wasn't going to tackle Ray Rice Like,
that's not It wasn't all because of that, but that
obviously took the air out of the balloon a lot
for the Patriots offense and their ability to match what

(12:48):
the Ravens were doing offensively that day without their best
player at that position at that point.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
And it's just different in the Super Bowl. And if
you look at the games, has had really one great
Super Bowl. Even in some of the wins he's been pedestrian.
He has multiple interceptions in three or five he has
a seven to six it's I think is it's seven
to six or eight to seven touchdown interception ratio aided
by that ridiculous stat adding performance at the end of

(13:16):
the game. Yeah, which robbed us of Carson Wentz super
Bowl snaps first the Eagles, which would have been hilarious. Uh,
we're allowed to get those games count more. We're allowed
to count those And it goes both ways. If Mahomes
comes out, you know, down the road and throws her
five hundred yards in a Super Bowl, that will mean
significantly more than you know, if he did it in
you know whatever, the thirteen second game. Yeah, it means

(13:39):
a lot more than that. So those Gateway it's a
what have you done for me lately? Sport? And I
will say on the flip side, I'm always somebody who
says when people are like, oh, Brady, you know the
eighteen Super Bowl, Brady sucked. You know, it's all about
you know, what are you doing that game? No, it's
winning a super Bowl is about the whole season and
not just that one game. So it will be fair there.

(14:00):
Patrick Mahomes did have another good season. It wasn't as
good as some of this bed another good season. But
you want to take the discussion to that level, you
want to talk about the greatest of all time, not
just great, but the greatest of all time. Those games
are tie breakers, and I don't think Brady needs the
tie breakers he had over Mahomes. But if we get
to that point, or Belichick needs it over Read or

(14:23):
Gronk over Kelsey who was non existent. Yeah, if we
get to the point where those games do come into
the conversation actually come into the conversation as tiebreakers, we
are absolutely allowed to weigh those more than I'm sorry,
the nine wild card, regardless of what the circumstances were
in that game.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, if you really look at it, at this point,
Patrick Mahomes has had up until twenty eleven. For Tom Brady, right,
he's been to five Super Bowls, he's won three, he's
lost two, and I know that Brady, you know there's
a longer period of time for Brady than Mahomes. But essentially,
Mahomes has had Chapter one. And I think what a

(15:00):
lot of people forget or just didn't give enough credence
to is that Brady had this whole second chapter with
the Patriots from twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen where he
won three more and then went to another one and
then one again in Tampa Bay. Like he had two
Hall of Fame careers, Mahomes has one right now. He

(15:20):
has a one Hall of Fame career. He's gonna be
a first ballot Hall of Famer, as he should be.
But right now, Patrick Mahomes, the comparisons for him are
Joe Montana and you know, John Elway and Peyton Manning
and Troy Aikman. Troy, He's a better quarterback than Troy Aikman.
But I just mean the three Super Bowls.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
I think he's past Peyton I'll give him that. I
think he's past Peyton Manning because of his two Super
Bowl wins, one of which he was undoubtedly carried to
right like, he didn't have a ton of success in
the postseason. Beyond that, Mahomes has been much more consistent.
I'll put Mahomes ahead of Manning at this point. I
said that last year, so this isn't a new take.

(16:03):
I think him in Montana is kind of the debate
right now.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
I always give Peyton a lot of credit, and I
think Brady gives Peyton a lot of credit for the
field general stuff. Yeah, like that that really changed the game.
Like quarterbacks, I don't think we're doing that where they
were making all the calls at the line of scrimmage
and audibling and checking into plays and really controlling the
chessboard like Peyton would and being that advanced in terms

(16:29):
of the pre snap reads and the pre snap processes
and all that stuff. Brady kind of added that onto
his game because Peyton was doing it right. You know,
it's another thing to master, to add to the skill set,
to add to the repertoire. And with Mahomes, he's he
kind of changed the game with his playing style. He's
an unorthodox quarterback. He doesn't have like the picture perfect

(16:53):
mechanics like Brady did, and he doesn't have some of
those what there's like cliche quarterback things. He changed the
game to dual thread and off script and off platform
and all that kind of stuff. Now being the in
vogue style of play. You know, That's what in a
lot of ways drew people to Drake May you know,

(17:15):
is that he has that ability to do those types
of things. What I wonder for mahomes and and I'm
really curious, like I'm actually genuinely curious to see what
he does here as those physical tools start to diminish
into his thirties a little bit, can he pivot to
being the Brady style quarterback. I think he's shown signs

(17:35):
of it. I think he's gotten a lot better at
reading defenses and pre snap and all that kind of stuff.
But I want, like that's going to have to be
the pivot, because you're not going to be able to
run around and make plays like that forever. And he
hasn't done it as much lately as maybe he did
early on in his career. But I wonder if he'll
have that ability, And I'm looking forward to seeing if

(17:56):
he can, because that's how he's going to prolong his career.
He's going to prolong his career by becoming a really
good pocket. Well.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
The other interesting thing is he's gonna have to do it,
at least some of that without Andy Reid, Like, if
he matches Brady, he plays twenty years. He's not gonna
do that all with any Reid. And I know Reid
said he'll be back next year.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, It'll be like a Bill Losh George Sefferts type
of situation.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right. So, and look, Brady did it all with Bill,
but there were different offensive coordinators in there, there were different iterations.
And then obviously he goes to tamp and reinvents himself.
So that's another feather in the cap that Mahomes needs
to have. Let's talk about I think that's enough, singer Wagon.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Let's talk about the rosters, because there are some interesting
things to polk here from the Patriots there for the
Patriots from a past perspective, the overwhelming narrative coming off
of this Super Bowl is the trenches, which you know, welcome,
like Glad's the glad we're here, right. But I feel
like that is something that we should talk about a

(18:53):
little bit more though, because the other shoe to drop
kind of off the Super Bowl, and I myself included
during the game, tweeted I took the bait too a
little bit, was well, let's just sign all the Eagles
defensive linemen that at free agency. Yeah, and I'm not
sure I would be weary of doing that. Not that
I am completely saying don't go out and sign Josh

(19:16):
Wet or Milton Williams, but you also can't pay those
guys top of market contracts and expect to get the
exact same production that they were getting in Philly. You know,
I don't know necessarily about Sweat. I think Sweat might
be able to kind of translate into different systems. But
like a guy like Zach Bond, for example, to me,

(19:37):
screams he was in a perfect situation for his skill set.
He had a great defensive line in front of him
to keep him clean, he had Vic Fangio using him
exactly how he was supposed to be used. I would
just personally be a little bit weary of over extending
for those players in free agency and expecting them to

(19:57):
come in and put up the same production and if
they did in the in the postseason run, there is
no Jalen Carter, right, There's not going to be a
Nolan Smith on the other side for Josh Sweat. There's
not gonna be a Jalen Carter clogging double teams and
stuff like that for Milton Williams, Zach Bond is the system,
Is it Fangio, you know, is it the defensive line
he's in playing in front of him, you know those

(20:19):
types of elements of it. I do think you have
to factor in here absolutely.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
And it's like you said, you know, Josh Sweat comes here,
He's going to get a lot more attention. Now you
hope Christian Barmore can come back. He's kind of that
guy getting some attention in the middle. You maybe draft
somebody on the other side, but you're building this thing up.
Josh Sweat's the one guy look at and look, can
you say that for just that any player? You know,
you put him in a new situation you don't know,
so it can't scary off entirely. Josh Sweat's the one

(20:44):
guy I look at and say, yeah, he I think
he's not gonna put up those massive numbers, but he
translates he can be a primary pass rusher, which they need.
He's arguably the best player at his position in free
agency this year. PFF has him as the second ranked
edge rusher behind Khalil Mack, who just doesn't make sense

(21:05):
for the Patriots at this point.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Game wonder.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, right, so Josh Sweat is the one guy I
would hammer in on. But to your point off the top, like,
I know, we've had people calling or I've had people
tweet at me and like, oh are we bringing back
Sodo Sign one Draft one attackle right, all that it's
not Sodo. It's Triple T this year. Trenches, trenches, trenches.
That is that is the theme for the off season.

(21:27):
Triple T trenches, trenches, trenches. We had. We went from
Sodo last year was QBA three. Yeah, and now it's
Triple T trenches, trenches, trenches.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
I would like to think that we were headed towards
Triple T. Anyways, given the fact that they were dead
last and now that it's nice Sason dead last and
pass block win rate dead last and run block win rate.
They've been dead last and pass block win rate two
years in a row.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, So and it's been like historically bad. It's not
just like their last the last year. Weren't they the
worst even like the last decade.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, it was bad, and I really would like to
think that it wasn't just the Super Bowl that swayed
them towards Oh now we have to address the offensive line,
like I would hope that we were already here well
before that point.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
That was the philosophy in Tennessee. And they didn't ultimately
get there. But you look at the way they kind
of built it up in Tennessee. It was when I
say trenches, we I include linebackers in that, like front
seven players, Right, That's kind of how they started building
it in Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, and I'm all for it, like I've been all
for it. The one thing that I would point at
though with this, with the way that they approach it,
is I do think accently relocate or allocation and value
and all that stuff does matter. And I think a
lot of people hear the word value and think of
Bill trading down and you know, Bill, you doing things that, oh,

(22:52):
we're gonna sign this player who's seventy five percent as
good as that player, but he's half the price. Like
that's not necessarily what I'm saying. All saying is is
you know what is the best approach in terms of
allocating resources based off of the board, like, for example,
in the draft. And we're gonna get into like the
tiers that I posted on Patriots dot Com this morning
and get into your mock draft too a little bit

(23:13):
as well. When you look at this draft, it's absolutely
loaded on the defensive line. They have defensive lineman through
the third and fourth round that have starter grades for
some people. Daniel Jeremiah CD he has twenty four starter
grades on defensive linemen in this try defensive tackles and
that's a huge number. So you have not a guy
that gives those easily either. Yeah, you have to look

(23:35):
at the the way you know the drop offs, right,
like where are the tiers, where are the clusters of players?
And it's an either or scenario. Would you rather a
Will Campbell at four? And then let's say, you know,
a tackle at thirty eight, you know, defensive tackle at
thirty eight, a pass rusher at thirty eight? Josh Sawyer

(23:57):
or or Jack Sawyer. I think it's like Josh Simmons
and Jack Sawyer, And for some reason, I like, I
like mix that up Jack, you know, Jack Sawyer, let's
just throw a name out there. Or would you rather
Mason Graham and Arianti Ursery?

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Right?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
You know, these are the conversations that are actually happening
inside a lot of buildings, maybe inside this building. So
there's that element of it. And then, like I mentioned,
I think Josh Sweat would be a nice pickup for
the Patriots, but I'm not paying Josh Sweat twenty million
dollars a year because I don't think he's a twenty
million dollar a year player. I think he's a good player.
I think he's better than what you have in that role.

(24:36):
But I would also say that if you're gonna do that,
like that has to come as a compliment to an
interior guy that's also going to rush the passer, because
what was happening with Josh Sweat is he's getting the
quarterback is funneled to him right, Like he's right. You know,
Jalen Carter and Milton Williams and Nolan Smith and all
these other guys are pushing quarterbacks in his direction. Like
you have to find ways to do that too if

(24:58):
you're the Patriots. He can clean it up, like I think,
you can get the quarterback on the ground, and he
can sack the quarterback and do all those types of things.
But he, to me, is not the centerpiece of your
pass rush. He's a complimentary.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, the other thing you have to remember is like
for everything they need to do they're not gonna do
everything they need to do this offseason. They can't. It's
too much. So do you pay Josh Sweat this year
knowing okay, like, we're gonna have an opportunity to get
that other guy next year, but this is our chance
to get this guy. We're gonna get them, Like, I

(25:30):
would just keep that in mind, that expecting them to
fill every single hole this offseason. I wrote about this
in my mock draft, Like I was pretty liberal with
some of the additions I made in free like hypothetical
editions I made in free agency. And even still I
couldn't get everything done that I wanted to get done,
because it's just they have so many needs and they

(25:51):
have a lot of resources. They have a lot more
than maybe any other team in the league. Yeah, but
it is a finite amount. Yeah, and they needs so
much that it's there. There might be a two year
plan and we're gonna have we might have to see that.
You know, if they add a guy like Josh Sweat
and then they don't, and then you know it's bar

(26:11):
More and then who's on the other side, Well, that
guy might be coming next year. That might be Dylan Stewart,
would be two years, but like that guy might be
down the road. But this is just how these are
the guys we can get right now. They fit into
our plan. We're gonna add them, and then we'll get
the rest of the pieces as we go. I think
with Sweat in particular, it's interesting because not only is

(26:32):
it a clear need, even if he's not the primary guy,
he fits the tight They had a lot of success
with Harold Landry and Tennessee, who's kind of an undersized guy,
and that's the big Sweat. That's the big knock on
Josh Sweat right now. He's maybe a little smaller than
you want that that edge rusher to be. But they
made that work with Landry into a lesser extent some
other guys. So if he fits the mold of what

(26:54):
they're looking for, even if they can't get the player
to compliment him right now, they may look get it
and say let's just get him in so we have
him because we have a chance to add the kind
of player we want to add. And then if we
don't get to address the other part until next year, well,
now we have this taken care of, so we can
put more attention on that.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
I definitely. I like Joshua as a player. I'll radiate
rediorate what I said. I just he to me cleans
up the trash, like he's the guy that is going
to get the quarterback on the ground. He's an athletic guy,
he can rush off the edge. Obviously he's gonna have
that ability to finish plays. But I don't think that

(27:35):
he's the one that is really starting to play right or.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I think you may be understelling him a little bit.
I don't think he's like a you know, sixteen sack
a year guy.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
I mean, I don't think. I think he's had one
double digit sack season his entire career.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
But how much of that, too is It's so funny
because you always talk about Georgia like this, and I'm
gonna apply it to the Eagles, which is all Georgia
guys up front. How much of that is There's only
so many sacks to go around for all of those players.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
It could be a piece of it. I I just
I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm underselling him. I just
I would be weary. I don't think I think a
lot of those guys, like look at look at the
Patriots history of teams poaching that type of guy from
a Super Bowl roster thinking that they're gonna get that
type of player, that type of production, and it often

(28:24):
didn't go that way.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, let me flip it and it you know, different
kind of style of play. But Matthew Judon came from
a very successful Ravens front, ye came here and was
elevated because now he was the guy.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I guess I just like the way I think. No, okay, no, right,
But like Judoon was already making Pro Bowls with the Ravens,
that's true. I just I think judonim is a better player.
But I look at Josh Wett and I think he's
a little bit better than than Kyle van Noy was.
But and kylevin Noy's had a great, uh kind of

(29:00):
resurgence here with the Ravens, by the way, So I'm
not trying to like throw shaite at Kyle van Noy.
But Kyle van Ney has this big breakout with the Patriots,
signs this huge contract with Miami in free agency, and
he wasn't the guy, Like, he wasn't the same guy.
And I just worry about what this Eagles front. I
don't worry as much about it with Josh Sweat as

(29:23):
I do with Milton Williams. I think Milton Williams is
a really fun player. But Milton Williams, you have Jalen Carter,
you have Jordan Davis, you have a lot of guys
on the inside. He's basically a three technique in the
B gap, one on one with the guard all day long.
Like that was he got that advantage. Now, if you're
gonna tell me that Christian Barmore is going to draw

(29:46):
these double teams like you know, like Jalen Carter did,
then sure, I mean, I guess you could make that
argument that Milton Williams is still gonna see those types
of matchups. But that, to me was a lot of
what led to Milton Williams' breakout.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
He he was kind of like the fourth guy you
know that teams are worried.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I'm with you on that, Milton Williams. And I'm not
saying there isn't a place for Milton Williams in New England.
There is, yeah, but for what he's gonna command, for
the role he's probably gonna play here like Josh Sweat's
the guy if you're gonna look at the Eagles for agents,
and who's most likely to come close to replicating the
impact on this defense that they had on the Eagles defense.

(30:25):
Josh Sweat. That doesn't mean Milton Williams wouldn't be a
good player here, But I don't think you're gonna be
able to get that guy.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Not anti them signing Milton Williams because they need guys
up the middle. Yeah, but he's not gonna be the
player he was in phil He's gonna have a different
role here.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah. I would agree with that, and we'll see what happens.
I just I wouldn't I wouldn't be overly upset if
they signed any of these guys. I again, it's just
the price tag thing for me. I just would be
weary of thinking, Okay, we're just gonna plug Josh Sweat
or Milton Williams or Zach Bond into our defense and

(30:57):
he's gonna play exactly like he did down the stretch
for Philadelphia. Like, I just don't know if that's going
to be the case. I mean, it's not quite like
this is the extreme extreme example, but like Cony ely right,
like as like the game of his life in the
Super Bowl for the Panthers and was never really heard
of from again. Do I think Milton Williams is gonna
be better than that post Super Bowl? Yeah? Probably, But

(31:19):
you know, those are the types of examples. I think
van Ney is probably a better example than that one.
You know, Malcolm Butler right like, has a great run
with the Patriots, signs this big contract with Tennessee. Isn't
the same player, right? You know that happened all all
the time with the Patriots and the dynasty years. There
is another eagle though, in the trenches that I would
be interested in. I was interested in him last year,

(31:41):
and I wish that the Patriots had been more aggressive.
I'm kind of in on mckaye Becton, like I would
be intrigued by McKay Beckton, probably to continue to play
him at guard, like, not at tackle. He played right
guard for Philly. I would play him on the left
side here. He played left tackle, you know, throughout his career,
so he's been on the left side before. But I

(32:02):
think that that's a player that had a really good year,
is hitting free agency. He'll probably get paid, but I
don't think he's gonna get like Tray Smith level money. Paid,
and that's a professional NFL caliber starting guard. And now
that's really where I'm at with the offensive line. I
bring up Tray Smith because he's also a free agent
with the Chiefs. We'll see if they let him get

(32:24):
to free agency. But I look at the Commander's model
a little bit more with this and say, just get
representable offensive lineman and free agency. I'm not expecting you
to go out there and sign you know, Joe Thomas,
Quentin Nelson, Zach Martin, right, just go out there and
get guys that can play in the league at the position,

(32:47):
and that just gives you a lot of flexibility about
what you do with everybody else. Like now, maybe Cole
Strange trains full time at center right and he's the
David Andrews replacement, or you know, Leyden Robinson. You're not
putting all your eggs in Laden Robinson's basket of having
a you know, year two leap and being a starting
caliber guard in year two, because I don't think he

(33:08):
was a starting caliber guard as a rookie. I think
he was a rookie guard as a rookie. So if
you get one of those types of players, a Makai
Becton type of player. It really just helps you in
a lot of ways. I think on the interior of
the offensive line. Just have respectable NFL caliber starters on
the line, and then maybe you can add some of

(33:29):
that that ceiling in the draft, you know it. Maybe
then it becomes a day too, you know, Josh Connerley
or three, you know, those types of guys that you
can kind of add to that ceiling of the group.
But I'm kind of Becton. I thought he had a
good year for them.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
The Becdan thing interests me. Copycat league, right, Yeah, how
many teams are going to go out and try to
find these like oversized tackles that failed, yeah, and kicked
them inside the guard. Yeah, and that doesn't mean like
they can all do it, But I'm trying to think
of because these are the tackles that I always liked
that I was gravitating, right, Yeah, Darien Canard, who's already

(34:06):
kind of done this, you know, if he doesn't catch
on full time as a starter in Cleveland, Dwan Jones
would be somebody I could see doing this. Maybe some
guys in this draft I thought was very telling that
Anthony Belton took some guard reps at the Senior Bowl.
Given the way McKai Beckton broke out, it's gonna be
really interesting to see these teams try to find the
next Mackai Becton. But yeah, if you're the Patriots, you
want to do that, go to the original call him.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah. I was in on Beckton on exactly the contract
that he ended up signing in Philadelphia last season, last offseason,
just that flyer, right, Like, I thought that out of
all the options that they had in free agency. Now,
I was thinking of him more a tackle obviously than
that card, but out of all the options that were

(34:49):
in the free agent market last year, at least there
was an upside there that, you know, a former first
round pick, still relatively young, really had his career derailed
with the Jets because of injuries more than any It
wasn't you know. When he was healthy, he was a
solid player in jazz in New York, right, and then
he goes to Philadelphia, goes gets with Stoutland and moves
inside and things look up for him. So I'm in

(35:11):
on Becton. I would be in on Sweat if I
was the Patriots. It's it's a little bit like a
t Higgins situation where you kind of have no choice
right to be in on Josh Sweat, but I'd be
wary of the money on those defenders in Philadelphia. All right,
So that that's the Super Bowl, I want to talk
a little bit draft. Now, we'll take your calls. Got
a lot of emails coming in as well. Eight five

(35:32):
five PATS five hundred is the phone number, and podcasts
at Patriots dot com is the email address. I always
want to say the old email address. I always forget.
It's the TPX hotline by the way, Okay, don't don't
say the old ones TPX hot line. But I want
to get into the tears that I posted today on
Patriots dot com, and I want to get into your

(35:54):
mock draft a little bit too as well. And these
are sort of our both of our kind of first like, yeah,
stabs at this.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Class, we gotta do recently buyas today too, because I
want you to talk about yours and then ones that
will annoy you.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Okay, So let's start with the tears though, And the
way I tried to break this up was basically the
guys that I would consider drafting, sticking and picking at
four overall and just taking this guy if he's there,
and then guys I would then consider if they were
to make incremental trade downs. I'm not anticipating them the
trade down from four to twenty, right, we're.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Talking about last week. You were all into that, but.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'm talking about four to eight, four to nine, four
to twelve, you know, something like that, a more realistic
trade down. So I had two top tiers. Tier one
was I don't know if they still do this in
the NFL draft. They don't think so, but I'm gonna
go with the old cliche. These are the two players
that I am running the card up to the podium, right,
I am no questions asked, We're running the cart up

(36:51):
to the podium. If these two guys, even if they
don't do it anymore physically, you still do it. You
still write down the name and spread to the stage
to make a point about how happy you are to happen.
So my number one player in the draft is Abdual Carter.
And and just for the record, I want you to
vouch I've been here for a little while. You you
were I have.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
You've been like a month ahead of everybody else, Like
when Carter was a mid first round sick. You were like,
you might be top ten, and then when he was
top ten, you were like, you might be top five.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
It might be top one.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Well, and then when everybody put him top five, you
were like, you might be the best player in the draft.
You have been like a step because you started watching
college football. Crazy what happened?

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I enjoyed it. It pulled me in it.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Did you know there's a whole.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Like four months because that's like that's like semi pro football,
Like that was like the top of the time.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
You don't you don't, I don't.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I don't need to watch like Apple Atch and State.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I want to watch, Okay, but there's like two to
three big games every week that are like playoff caliber games.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
So here's my argument for Carter over Travis Hunter, which
wasn't easy. Like Travis Hunter, I think is an exceptional prospect,
so it wasn't easy. But my biggest argument, which is
sort of on your side of the street, for Carter
over Hunter, is it's just so easy to project the role,
Like it's so easy to see the skill translate perfectly

(38:08):
into a you know, a weak side pass rusher in
the NFL, just a demon off the edge like that's
such an easy vision for this is how we're going
to use the player, Whereas with Hunter, as we know,
it's more complicated. It's a more complicated projection of exactly
how you're exactly going to move the player or use
the player at the next level. Abdul Carter is just electric.

(38:32):
He's in his electric through and through first step, explosiveness, bend,
turn the corner, ability, cross the face, inside the gap,
you know, whether it's a spin or it's just an
inside counter crossover. He can line up in line, rush
over the guards and centers, just like the guy I'm
about to compare him to. He can play a little
bit off the ball if you really want to do
that in certain matchups by quarterbacks, sideline to sideline, range, relentless,

(38:56):
modor hustle. Just an excellent player. I hate comparing, you know,
I hate comparing players to like future Hall of famers
or current Hall of famers, So I always try to
put that caveat in there, But it is really the
skill set and the type of player that he is
is Micah Parsons.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
So how much of the twenty twenty three stuff did
you watch from him?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I did watch a little because I wanted to see
more of his off ball line back.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
That's what I'm saying. Like the Micah Parsons comp to me,
comes with being more than a pass rusher. Yeah, he's
a guy that is going to be not just capable
in coverage, but a plus in coverage. Yeah, is gonna
be a guy that can line up in different spots.
I think he is a Micah Parsons level pass rusher.
I don't think the other stuff. He's not bad at it.
He can do it at the NFL. I don't think

(39:43):
he translates like Parsons does in that regard. I'm with you.
I have him top of my board for the Patriots.
That if the Patriots the first overall pick penning a trade,
that is who I would take, ye Abdul Carter. I
don't think, like out of who's the best speed rusher
in the NFL that's not Parsons. Yeah, I mean that
was the other Like, I just I don't know how

(40:04):
well that other stuff it'll transfer, but not to that
lovel that.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
That was the other thing that you know reasonable. So
I called him Micah Parsons light because I hate I
don't want to put that on him. That he's gonna
be Micah Parsons, so I called him Micaeh Parsons Light,
And I think that what really obviously the ability to
go you know, the two way go constantly right. He
can beat you inside or he can beat you outside
around the corner. But really what stood out to me
that made him so much like Parsons is how he

(40:27):
can line up over the interior and rush as like
an inline rusher. That's something that I believe, you know,
separates Parsons from a lot of guys, is that Parsons
can basically rush on all five offensive linemen and with
right which is a very very rare trait. He is
not just, you know, just an example. We're just talking
about him. Like Judon was very open about the fact
that he didn't really feel comfortable doing that, Like you know,

(40:50):
he wasn't really He tried to add that to his bag.
I think Dante high Tower tried to help him at
it to his bag. And he wasn't officially on the
staff at the time, but he studied high Tower and
he tried to add that to his back. Abdull Carter
is already doing those types of things. I think his
experience playing off the ball helps him see it through
that interior lens right, so that he can play on

(41:12):
the inside or he can play on the outside. And
just the last thing on him, he's just scratching the
surface because he only played one full season as a
full time edge rusher, so his instincts in his feel
for the position is only just sort of getting going right.
So once he really finds that groove of a pass
rush plan and counters and block anticipation and recognition and

(41:36):
instincts like, he's going to be through the roof. So
the fact that he's already this good at it, this
early in his development at that position tells you how
high that ceiling is and how good he could potentially be.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
You know, I'm always big on the position change players,
and that's why because if you change positions and you
do it at a high level quickly, it shows that
you have an ability to prove your game. You take
coaching well, you learn all of that. So that is
I would say Parsons' biggest enough part. Look at that,
I would say Carter's biggest question is also arguably his

(42:08):
biggest strength. With any play of the recently changed positions,
you're gonna just have questions about the technical side and
the development, but which are there for him. But the
fact that he developed as quickly as he did in
one year is also a plus in that it shows
that he's a quick learner.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
So Abdul Carter number one, number two in this tier,
we're still in the run the card up to the
podium tier Travis Hunter. So what I think is so
fun about Travis Hunter is that there's nobody that you
talk to that has any question about his talent and
or his ability as a prospect. But everybody kind of

(42:45):
has a different take on how they'd use him. So
I'm with you on this. There has to be organizational
symmetry of this is how we're going to use him
before you turn the card in, Like, he has to
be on board with it. You have to be on
word with it from the top down in the organization, GM, coach, whatever.
You can't get into it and just say we're just

(43:06):
gonna grab the talent and figure it out later. I
think there has to be a plan in mind. That
being said, I will continue to stress and continue to
pound the table. I think he's a better wide receiver.
I think he's a more valuable wide receiver, maybe not
a better wise he is a more valuable wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
That it's the it's the would you rather have an
A plus corner or an A minus receiver?

Speaker 2 (43:29):
And I'm taking the receiver. And I just think, you know,
Dante Scarneki did the interview. I think it was with
Chris Price with the Globe, right, and that quote is
kind of making the rounds of either draft guys that
sack the quarterback or score touchdowns. Well, if you put
him at corner, like unless he's picked six ing, he
ain't scoring very many touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Right, so you want you want to put him on
the edge.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
I exactly, I want to rush in the passer. He'd
probably bad at it when you watch when you watch
his game at wide receiver, and I kind of am
proud of myself for this comm I see a lot
of DeVante Smith in his game, Okay, because he's he's
got length, but he's he's slender, right, he doesn't have
the build, but he's he's got length and he's got size,

(44:09):
and he's really a great contested catch player for his size.
Especially he's a sixty five percent contested catch rate guy.
Last year at Colorado, Ted McMillan at six foot five,
two hundred and ten pounds was a sixty percent catch
rate guy. So but he beat Hunter a couple of times.
So yeah, like with like one handed grabs. But so yeah,

(44:31):
Like my point being, he's a much better contested catch
player than you would think. Uh. And I would also
say that his ability and his explosiveness with the ball
in his hands is electric like that that's a he's
a game breaking player. And if I'm an NFL team,
that's just that's still the golden goose to me, especially
for the Patriots, but just in general, Like you want

(44:53):
guys that are going to change the game, and I
think that he has that ability to really create big
plays all over the field from the wide receiver position.
And if you put him at corner the comparison that
I drew at corner with Sauce Gardner, I think you'd
be a really good corner. I think he's more of
his own corner than he is a man to man
corner because his instincts in his clicking clothes and read

(45:16):
and react on the ball is just next level, Like
his ability to see the ball get into passing lanes,
jump routes like intercept the football. He's a ballhawk like that,
that's his best trade as a cornerback. I think he
can play Manton Man. I'm not saying he's incapable of
playing Manton Man, but I do like that idea if
you're gonna be in this more Tennessee type of scheme,

(45:36):
like if you played Christian Gonzales on the boundary full time,
whereby in a lot of formations and looks, you're probably
gonna be man to man on the weak side, and
then Travis Hunter can kind of just roam on the
other side of the field. That's also very enticely like,
that's a very enticing duo. But I definitely feel like
if I was an NFL team, the value that he

(45:57):
brings to the team at wide receiver is just significantly
more at corner. And then you just hope that you
can develop some of the real details of the position
at wide receiver. Sure, all right, so here's my next tier. Yeah,
this is I would take him at four, but I'm
not doing cartwheels like I would do with the top two, right, Yeah,
but I'd still take him at four without a trade down.

(46:19):
So this is where I think I am different from
some people, maybe not you, but other people. I have
Will Campbell as the next player on this list at
number three. Pro comparison Ryan Ramchick, who also had issues
with length coming out thirty three inch arms.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
But he stayed at tackle.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
He stayed at tackle and was very very good for
the Saints for a long time. You know. Now he's
kind of getting up there in age and injuries and such,
but a good player for the Rams for a very
long time at left tackle or Saints. Excuse me, don't
know why I said Rams. The biggest thing that I
see with Campbell is that I think his footwork and
his base and his balance and his PAS sets is

(46:59):
good enough that he's going to be able to overcome
the arm leg. Now, if it checks in at the
combine and he's got thirty two inch arms and they're
really below threshold, then we're gonna have to change the
conversation a little bit. But as long as we're in
the range of thirty three inches, when I watch him play,
I see a stout, you know, crisp moving tackle and

(47:19):
pass protection that has excellent feet, excellent ability to mirror
guys on island. I just don't necessarily see the length
being the major issue. Now. He does drift at times
in his pas sets, and he'll overcompensate and kind of
commit to the outside and open up that inside counter
that's spin to the you know, the inside pathway to
the quarterback. That's something that they're gonna have to work

(47:41):
with him on technically, but it's.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Also something where if you have a three hundred and
sixty pound left guard and Mkay Beckton's standing there, he
can take up a lot of room. Yeah, it's gonna
help you out.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
I don't I don't look at anything on Will Campbell's
tape and say, you know, that's a deal breaker at tackle,
and given where the Patriots are on the offensive line,
giving where again, or you know, looking at the entire landscape,
giving what the options are for them to fill that
need at left tackle, I think that Will Campbell is
the best option on whether it's free agency or the draft. Like,

(48:15):
I'm taking Will Campbell over Cam Robinson. I'm taking Will
Campbell over Alaric Jackson. I'm taking Will Campbell over Calvin Banks.
I'm taking all across.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
If if he gets searched, I don't think he's going
to Ronnie Stanley.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
I probably take Ronnie Stanley in that scenario and then
draft somebody on Day two with upside. But at the
same time, I could be talking into either way with
Ronnie Stanley's agent Price.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I just I just wanted to ask you that question.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
But I think that looking at the realistic options for
left tackle, the cleanest way is sometimes just straight the
straight line right, and the easiest projection of you know,
the best player to fill that need is Will Campbell,
and I can't I can't get too far away from that,
Like you have to respect.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
How many years are gonna kick it down the road.
Like if you don't like Will Campbell, fine, what are
you doing at tackle? Ronnie Stanley's not gonna be We
don't think it's gonna be available. If you want to say,
you take a Layeric Jackson over him, maybe there's no
other better tackle. They can't kick this thing down the
road another year, especially not now that they actually have
a freaking quarterback. So yeah, I'm with you. So you

(49:20):
wouldn't take Campbell at four last week?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Though? What changed? Did I say that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:24):
We had that whole argument about the trading down thing,
and I don't know, you know, I'm not comfortable with
him at four, but I'm comfortable with him at six
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
And sometimes, like I say these things and then you
think about it some more and then you put it
pen to paper and your mind changes. I like I,
Like I said, I, the main thing that I can't
get around is if it's not Will Campbell left tackle,
then what is it right? And And that that, to
me is the scarier it's scarier right to just go

(49:52):
with and I know they can't, they're gonna get a
better player than choose the cor four, but to go
at the mystery box of like whatever you're gonna find
in free agency or whatever you're gonna find on Day
two of the draft. And it was one thing when
you and I think Doug Moron's a good coach, maybe
Doug Moroon can coach up a Day two pick at
left tackle. But it was one thing when you had
Dante Scarnekia turning every Sebastian Volmer and Marcus Cannon into

(50:15):
starting caliber tackles, Like you don't have that luxury anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
And it's also like the whole argument about oh, well,
you're overdrafting him, like people need to get over that.
They just you're not large league.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Right, So you look at Daniel Jeremiah, look at Dan Brugler,
like they all have him in the top ten. It's
not like you're drafting a guy that's projected, Oh.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Well, he should have gone six, and you're taking for
he's the number one player in the draft, assuming the
arms checkout. Yeah, number one player in the draft at
a premium position, out a position you need. It's not
an overdraft. Well, if you take a tackle top five,
he should be your franchise guy. If he's the top
ten left tackle in the league. Yeah, makes you know,
maybe one or two All Pro teams, couple of Pro Bowls.
But like for a decade, you have that position where

(50:55):
you can trust that guy, set it and forget it.
He's not Joe Thomas, he's not Pina Seol, but just
a set it and forget it left tackle for ten years.
That's not an overdraft to me, not in this class,
not for where the team thinks they are. If Joe
Walt was in this draft and they took him over Jolt,
yeah that would be an overdraft. But Joe Walt's not
in this class. Pine Soool's not in this class. If

(51:16):
you get it ten years, set it and forget it
left tackle, which we both think he can be.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, if you.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Get a ten year set it and forget it left tackle.
Fourth overall, Yeah, it's it's maybe not n A plus, it's
a solid B plus. And you know what sometimes you got.
I would have absolutely been happy with the B plus.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Sometimes you gotta hit that.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
I struggled with seven or eight.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Right, like you gotta hit it down the fairway sometimes.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Another good I would you know you hit how many
shots in her own of the woods? You put one
hundred and fifty yards dead? Miiddle, you're kind of gonna
feel good about that.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I don't know that. I don't know that from experience,
but I'll take your word for it.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Uh see, if you started golfing, you could actually make
more of these analogies.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Oh MANU. But that That's where I'm at with Will
Campbell right now. Again, I don't think his arm length
is his biggest issue. I think his biggest issue is
hitting his landmarks and drifting in his PAS sets. And
I think that that's coachable. I think that's correctable for
him to stick and tackle. And and That's where I'm
at with Bill Campbell. You know, other guys like Ramcheck

(52:13):
is the one that I picked just because I thought
their skill sets were similar. But like Matt Light, Taylor Decker,
you know, there's plenty of guys that played at Obviously,
Rashaun Slater is like the poster child for this right now.
That's why I didn't want to use him, because it's
kind of like low hanging fruit. But all those things,
all those guys thirty three thirty three and a half
inch arms, had length issues, had concerns about it coming

(52:36):
out of in as prospects, and we're all perfectly fine
in the league. Even Joe Thomas wasn't like the longest
guy in the world, and he is obviously one of
the best left tackles of all time. So there's plenty
of evidence that this has worked out for other guys.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
I still go back. If you could take Rashawn Slater
fourth overall in this draft, would you do it?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (52:56):
And I mean I don't remember. I didn't study the
line as closely that year, Like how would you compare
Campbell to Slater? And I know I just did that
whole rant about right, don't compare players between drafts, but
as comparable players, how would you compare Campbell as a
prospect to Slater.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Campbell's nastier. Campbell has a little bit more of a
mean finish to his game. Slater is more athletic. Okay,
So I think theered different players, which is why I
didn't want to necessarily use them as the cop But
I Rashaan Slater, I think fell a little bit in
the draft because the threshold was really thirty four inches, right.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
No, I remember doing this with Slavery that year. Everybody
was yelling at us to use a guard.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Yeah, so you know, he changed the game a little
bit in that respect. Last thing on Campbell, when I
was talking to Ryan Cowden at the Senior Bowl, the
Patriots assistant GM. Essentially, the thing that I asked him was,
you know, described to me a Rabel player. And he
obviously wasn't going to get into the weeds of you know,
all the details and all the nuances, but the quote

(53:55):
that he gave me was that Mike Rabel, the number
one thing that he looks for him player is effort
and Finishill Campbell that that is something that he wants
to instill in the program in Foxborough is effort and
finish and uh will Campbell is all of that, right Like.
He is a high effort, finishing, maueling offensive tackle who

(54:18):
also has extremely high end football character, right like, really
a projected decade long captain in the league. And as
much as you want traits and as much as you
want upside, and as much as you want all the
fancy stuff in this draft as well, I do think
they're trying to build a culture here, and they're trying
to build a program here, and we talk about that

(54:40):
a lot on this show. And Will Campbell is a
program builder, like that is a culture building pick.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
If there are two players in this there are two
players atop this draft, I think that are Drake May.
I don't want to say you start a culture with
because Drake May is a culture guy. To yeah, Drake
May is a program guy. It's Will Campbell, and it's
Travis Hunter.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
You go look at what Travis Hunter did at Colorado
with some of his teammates and things like that, and
the way Dion used him to sell that program. I
think that translates to the NFL. And you look at
the way Will Campbell's teammates talk about him and the
responsibilities he took on starting as a true freshman at
LSU and the SEC. Those are guys that know what

(55:20):
it's about to not just be a part of a
football team, but be the face of a football team.
I'm not saying Abdol Carter can't do that. I'm not
saying Mason Graham can't do that. I'm not saying Ted
McMillan can't do that. But they haven't. And you know,
like there's really good examples of Travis Hunter and Will

(55:40):
Campbell being guy you know, captains, leaders, outwards facing, front facing,
dealing with the media, things like that. There are not
a lot of tackles in college Hunters different. He's been
a superstar since he was like seventeen years old. Number
one recruiting country, right, But the tackles don't talk to
the media in college football. Campbell did. Will Campbell's a

(56:01):
guy that you can build this thing around. Travis Hunter's
a guy that you can build this thing around. That's
not the be all end all. That doesn't mean you
can't draft the other guys, but that certainly should hold
some weight.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
So the last guy I have in this tier, which
again is I take him at four without a trade down,
and this is.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
You want to Will breaking news here first, little Patriots,
just breaking news. We got Matt Patricia Yes has been
hired as the defensive coordinator at Ohio State. Oh wow, so.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Were's there's some Ohio State connections there. Certainly we have
Bill and Ryan Day and Chip Kelly and Vrabel. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
I can I give you now my number one wish
list item for the twenty twenty five college football season.
Sure Ohio State UNC playoff game.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Need oh come on, you don't want to see that.
I need it? No, need it, need it? Or you
know what whatever bowl game it's supposed to be thrown
away played at the Fenway Bowl. That is a new
England game.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Let's get back to the program now. Okay, you're good,
you're good. You got your map.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I just want to site. That was Pete Damilsinger finalizing
a deal.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Okay, so my last guy in this tier and then
I'll get to the next tiers and we'll go a
little bit faster. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, I will go
a little bit faster because we're taking a lot of
time on this. This is no trade down. There's no
other option. You have to make a pick, and for
some reason, the first three guys I said, are no

(57:25):
longer on the board. I don't know if that scenario
whatever happened. I mean to make a trade now, but
you can't trade down I would. I think Mason Graham's
talent wise is worth the fourth overall pick. I just
I am still in the school thought of positional value
with Mason Graham. It's why I don't have him above
Will Campbell. He is a very very good pocket disruptor.

(57:48):
He is a pressured guy, a high motor guy, a
hard charging defensive lineman. He's very violent with his hands.
He's got a couple of really good moves, you know,
swim move, arm over, two hands, wipe, gets into the creases,
gets into the gaps, quickly, explodes off the ball like
he is a high energy impact pass rusher. He's not

(58:11):
a finisher though he's a disruptor. He's not a finisher.
He's a disruptor. And I do have maybe more concerns
than other people do that I've seen with his run
defense and his film against the run gets a little
high with his pads. He doesn't get great arm extension,
doesn't have great length to get great arm extension, and

(58:34):
doesn't absorb double teams. Consistently all the time. So my
fear with him, with Mason Graham is, you know, he
gets into the league and because of his body type
and because of some of the deficiencies that he has,
that he's going to be a little bit easy to
move in the run game, which would be my one
concern with him being this three down force, right, this

(58:55):
three down player. Now projecting him as a three down player,
I think that the comp I see a lot of
is Christian Wilkins, right, like that sort of guy that
is a little bit stouter, you know, a little bit
shorter in terms of his arm length and his size,
but it's just really quick into gaps and really good
at defeating blocks with his hands and things like that.

(59:15):
So I like Mason Graham. I don't love Mason Graham
as much as everybody else. I do like him, and
I would take him if I had to write, if
there was no other option there, I would take him.
But I definitely worry about positional value, three down value
run defense, and more importantly we talked about it earlier.

(59:36):
Is it a huge drop off from Mason Graham to
what you could get at the top of the second
round at the same position. You know, is it a
huge drop off in this draft and do you need
that player, Like, do you need that player to be
a centerpiece player on the interior defensive line or do
you have that guy already in like a Christian Barmore

(59:58):
for example. And you're really just looking for the Milton
Williams like, you're just looking for the complimentary piece next
to Barmore. If you told me that Barmore is never
going to play football again because of the blood clot situation,
and Okay, maybe I change my tune a little bit
on Mason Graham, but I still don't. I still think
it's a luxury pick for a team that's not in
luxury mode.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
I'm with you on that, and the Barmore thing certainly
impacts it. But to me, I don't think he'd be
a bad pick. I don't think he would be a
bad pick. Yeah, but I don't think he's the best
pick they could make.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, that's a good way put it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
So you know, he's a good player, he'll be a fit.
You talk about needing somebody to kind of set things
up for a guy like Josh Sweat, Maybe he becomes
that guy. But he's not a bad pick, But I
don't think. I think getting a state and forget it
left tackle. I think getting a playmaker off the edge,
like a true playmaker off the edge. I think those

(01:00:49):
are going to impact the football team more than a
guy like Mason Graham will.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, it's a great way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Or trading back like I. So this is where I
differ from you. Again, I don't think Graham would be
a bad pick. Pick it for I'm seriously taking calls
at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
This is like the calls are crap.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
And also, are you the same for Campbell because you
had them in the same tier? Are they really two
different tiers?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
No, I'd say I'm probably in the same boat. Like
I'd still take calls if it's Campbell, you know, but
I think that i'd be a little bit more. I'd
be a little bit more gung ho about taking Campbell,
Like I'd probably pound the table a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
That's what I'm saying. It's different for me. Like Campbell,
I would take it for and feel good about it.
I'd still take calls obviously, but I you know, I
kind of have to be wooed a little bit ors
with Mason Graham if it's like all right, I'm gonna
have Mason Graham or I can have you know, I
don't want to spoiler alert, but if it's Mason Graham
or Tyler Warren and an extra second round pick, yeah,

(01:01:44):
you know, an extra top fifty pick, I think I'd
rather have Warren in the extra top fifty pick than
just Mason Graham. Will Campbell. I might need a little
bit more. I might need like a future first and
which I think you could get and I wouldn't lose
sleep over doing that, but I need a little more
to trade out of Will Campbell.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Last thing on Mason Graham. If you put Mason Graham
on the defensive line, and you put him next to
key On White, and you put him next to bar More,
and then you sign a guy like Josh Swede who
could come in and actually get the quarterback on the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Ground, A defensive lines now fixed.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
You have a great defensive line. But I don't think
Mason Graham is the finishing piece, right like, I don't
think he's the centerpiece of what you're doing. I think
he's a really good disruptor. I think he's a really
good pocket pusher. But you are going to have to
have somebody on the edge that's going to come in
and get double digit sacks and put the quarterback down.
I don't think that's gonna be Mason Graham. So to me,

(01:02:34):
you know, to go back to the scar thing like
the guys that sack the quarterback and guys that score touchdowns.
I would not put Mason Graham in the sack the
quarterback category. Disrupt the quarterback, affect the quarterback, certainly, sack
the quarterback, I don't know. So that's where I'm at
with Mason Graham. This next tier, my third tier, is
a bigger tier. This is like kind of a chunk

(01:02:55):
of this. Oh yeah, it's a good plug, good plug.
This tier is trade down tier, and I'm talking about
realistic trade downs, not four to twenty like we're like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Forded, like you were so excited about last week.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Like you know, for to like twelve is probably the
lowest I know, right, you know in that category for
these types of players. So here's where I had them
ranked within the tier at number five on my board.
Tyler Warren from Penn State. I love Tyler Warren. If
the Patriots are in a different spot and they had
the trenches and everything kind of short up a little

(01:03:32):
bit more and you were able to take more of
a luxury item. Tyler Warren is a lot of fun
baby gronk, Like he's the closest thing I've seen to
Gronk since we started doing this. He's not gronk, but
six six two sixty and moves well at that size.
Is gronkish right like that. There's not that many guys
that fill out the suit like that, that move like

(01:03:52):
Tyler Warren does.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I'm gonna be interested to see what he measures in at.
He doesn't look to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Sixty, that's what he's listed as.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, I'm gonna be interested.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
So he obviously has the ability to win above the
rim in the red zone. Us His body uses frame,
uses catch radius, versatility through the roof, like you can
line this guy up anywhere, even in the backfield. Played
wildcat quarterback for Penn State, and when you really watch
that Penn State offense, like he kind of carried that offense,
you know he was he was the guy in that offense.

(01:04:22):
And I look at Drake May, I look at Josh McDaniels.
You know, Drake May I think has already shown a
pension for liking tight ends and throwing the ball to
tight ends. I think he'd be comfortable with his tight
end being the number one targeted player and the offense hunter.
Henry probably was at number one targeted player last year
and h and Josh mcdaniels's experience with maximizing a tight
end with Warren skillset. So is he a watered down gronk. Yeah, absolutely,

(01:04:46):
everybody's watered down gronk in that body.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
He's not gonna be the biggest tight the best tight
end of all times, correct.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
But he's gonna be a very good player. The one
knock on him that I would give other than like
some technical stuff in blocking gets a little high, gets
pushed around a little, but sometimes in line blocking he's older.
He's an older prospect and he's gonna be twenty four
or twenty five as a rookie. I've sort of gone
back and forth of how much I care about that.
But when you really think about tight ends, like you

(01:05:13):
do have to consider how how much you know? How
long are you really gonna have the player for now?
I always feel like that's putting the car before the horse,
to worry about, oh, are you gonna get your eight
R nine year ten if you're at the point where
you want them at your eight r nine year ten,
you're in pretty good shape. So I'm not too concerned
about the age. But that is a factor that you
have to put out there. But Tyler Warren was a

(01:05:35):
lot of fun. He was a really fun study.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I think the bigger factor for me with Tyler Warren,
and I really like Tyler Warren too. I think he's
the best tight end in this class is what is like,
what's the plan? And I'm not saying there isn't one,
but I don't think you can essentially bench Hunter Henry.
And that's not saying don't take this great player because
you have a thirty year old tight end, But if
you're trying to like make things work for Drake May,

(01:05:57):
if you draft Tyler Warren, you our best offense is
a lot of twelve. And we know Josh McDaniels can
do that. But you kind of it almost like Travis Hunter,
where it's all right, we're gonna draft Traf, we're gonna
draft Tyler Warren and see what happens. Right, You got
to kind of know and if you have an inkling
that he could be the guy you're playing in free
agency sort of needs to reflect a team that's gonna

(01:06:20):
play a lot of twelve Yeah, so that's the one
thing for me with Warren. And I know people get
annoyed when you talk about fits with the first round pick,
like just draft the best player available. You can't draft
a guy that you're not gonna be able to use.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
So I just think that what makes me feel better
about that because I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
I'm not anti that. Like Josh McDaniels has had a
ton of success running offenses that are very heavy in
twelve personnel. They chased that for years, yeah, and they
can never quite get it. They went through like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
That the turns out and nobody is what was his name, Chandler,
Scott Chandler.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
They went through the Scott Chandler's of the world. Marty
Bennett worked for a little bit of time. I wish
he'd been here longer. One of my favorite Patriots. But
like we know Josh daniels can do it. But that's
something that like you kind of have to there's more
to it than that, and you have to be ready
to go in head first and say we're going to
be a twelve personnel offense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
So the thing that makes me feel a little bit
better about it is that I do think Tyler Warren
is so versatile that he kind of blurs the lines
between eleven and twelve. Now I'm not saying that he's
going to play outside receiver at a high volume, but like,
you can play him in the slot, you can play
him off the line of screamage, you can play him
out of the backfield. Like, there's different ways that you
can move him around in the formation and get different

(01:07:32):
looks out of him. So he's a really versatile, you know,
chess piece type of player. So it's not like you
have two y tight ends and you're running double y
offense all the time. You do have that ability to
move him around.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
So you've talked a lot in the past and in
a different context, but you've talked about, well, they need
to bring more of what the Bills are doing to
help Drake mey. Yeah, could he be your Dalton Kincaid
And then after Henry's Dawson.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
On Yeah, well we might get to Dalton Kincaid here
in a second, but yeah, yeah that I could.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
There's a better com for Dalton. Yeah, Okay, I mean
I think this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Guy's better than Dalton Kinkaid, but there's a better player
that is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
But like I'm with you, Like if they were to
draft Tyler Warren, that's what I would be pointing at,
Like what the Bills are doing right, Like, that's kind
of what I would want them to try to do.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Okay, So the next player here on my list, I
had to put him on because the guy's just a
straight up ballers is Jalen Walker from Georgia linebacker. I
don't think that the Patriots are gonna be in a
position where Jalen Walker makes a whole lot of sense
for them. I know a lot of people really love
him as an edge rusher. I think that he's like
a Jamie Collins Dante high Tower Girodmeo type where he's
playing on and off the line of scrimmage. I think

(01:08:37):
he's gonna have to play a little bit of both,
like a hybrid type of role. I don't know if
the Patriots are necessarily in a spot where that's the
player that you're gonna take. But Jalen Walker is a
dude like that guy is definitely a really good football
player and he fits sort of that pass Pats linebacker,
a role of you can play from really all three
spots right off ball, linebacker, in line rusher, edge rush, sure,

(01:09:00):
and just use him in different ways and things like that.
But I actually think he's a little bit more athletic
than like a high tower in space. So the combat
I used, Actually the guy would just talking about is
Zach Bond, who can play on an off line of scrimmage,
cover a lot of ground. Jalen Walker is a big
time player. He's gonna be a great football player somewhere.
I just don't know if it necessarily makes sense for
the Patriots, but he has to be on the list

(01:09:22):
if you're gonna talk about this list. The next guy
that I'm really serious about, though, who I just absolutely
was blown away by his Colston Lovelin with Michigan, who
I feel like is now everybody is in love. Like
Dame Bruger had him at eleven and his top one hundred,
his latest top one hundred. Jeremiah I think had him

(01:09:42):
at like seven, like really high, like top ten player.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Here's the top tight end coming into the season. And
then Warren had the year he had, But Loveland was
the guy that was getting all the hype really until
like November.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Yeah, so a couple of different combs for him. I
settled on brock Bauer's light because I think that that's
just the easiest one to for everybody to kind of understand.
There's a little Sam Laport, There's a little Sam laporta
there right, there's a little Dalton kink there. You know.
He is a receiving tight end. He is not a
necessarily a big time blocker, although I think he can
hold his own in certain matchups if you're going to

(01:10:14):
have him block on the perimeter and and block defensive backs,
like he's not going to dig out defensive ends, Like
that's just not going to be his game at two
forty five. But he is explosive, Like he is an
absolute explosive, big time playmaker at the receiver position, can
play out of the slot, can run routes in line.
You know, he gets into the scene in a hurry,
He gets over the top of the second level in

(01:10:35):
a hurry, really good at the top of the route.
Explosive player all over the film. He was awesome, Like
he was really fun to watch. A lot of the
same traits I would say as like a Bowers or
a Laporta or some of these tight ends that are
coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Yeah, I think he got lost in the wash during
the season because Michigan really only threw the ball like
ten times a game. Yeah, so he didn't have a
ton of any Like you said, he's not a plus blocker,
so he didn't have a ton of opportunities to show
what he can do. But now I think when go
back and they look like they're rediscovering them, there is
a projection because like you said, there's some really impressive
stuff on that tape. It's not a lot of tape. Yeah, Like,

(01:11:08):
how how long did it take you to watch him
versus watching Tyler Warren? Right? One guy was the centerpiece
of the offense.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
That like that, that entire Penn State offense. They had
Tyler Warren Adam lining up, a tight end, receiver, a
running back, quarterback, He lined up at center and caught
a touchdown on the same play, which was awesome. I
know you hated that, but it was sick.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
I don't know. It supports my argument now, so I'm
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
You hated it. Whereas Colston Loveland, they probably should have
used him more, but they couldn't because they just didn't
have the quarterback play to really have any semblance of
a pass game. They had to run the ball a ton.
That meant that, you know, they had to kind of
hide him as a blocker and things like that. There's
tremendous flashes, but you have to project some sort of
consistency because he was never given and I'm honest saying

(01:11:51):
he can't be consistent. He was never given an opportunity
to play in a volume role. And if you're drafting
a tight end as high as Coulston, Loveland is probably
gonna go, Yeah, it's gonna be in a volume rold
brock Bauers had what one hundred something targets last year. Yeah,
Colson Lovelin had nothing close to that in college. So
again it doesn't mean he can't do it, but you
have to be really confident in your evaluation because you

(01:12:12):
haven't seen him apples to apples in the role you're
probably drafting him into.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
So the thing that you know in terms of role
that really intrigues me about him is that I would
say his best route is like the quick post or
the skinny post right where he just runs right behind
the linebackers or runs away from a defender and off coverage.
And when you really think about Josh McDaniels' offense, like
those bang play action plays where you're pulling guards and
leading with the full back and you're getting those linebackers

(01:12:37):
to fall step up the field, and then Colson Lovelin
is just gonna burst right by that second level and
he's gonna be gone in a blur. He could really
really eat on those types of schemes, you know, those
Charles Barkley, you know, pull the backside guard, make it
look like power, and then have the linebacker come down
and all of a sudden, you have a four or
five tight end at two forty five coming across the field. Like,

(01:12:58):
there's not a lot of guys that are gonna be
able to recover and win that foot race. So I
look at Closon Lovelin in a gap scheme and a
downhill rush offense with a quarterback that's operating in the
gun and running gun action and RPO and all these
different type of things. I look at him as just
a really great fit in that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
So let me ask you this with him and Warren right,
you talked about with Mason Graham, and I agree with you,
this is an unbelievable defensive tackle class, and part of
the pause with Mason Graham is like, you're not worried
about going to that next level because you're still going
to get a playmaker at that next level. Would you
feel the same about Warren or Lovelan because this is
a really good tight end class too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Yeah, I don't because the need for that centerpiece playmaker
for the Patriots is so high, it's so important, and
I feel like those two guys can do that and
the next guy, I do have the receiver on my
listen next, Okay, so don't worry. Okay, But then I
feel like these two guys, these two guys, to me,

(01:13:55):
are the two best playmakers in the class on offense
other side, outside of Travis Hunter, who is this own unicorn.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
There's one more agree with me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
I that isn't a devalued position. Uh That that to
me is they're the two best pass catchers in this
draft and so that that that's important, especially if you
can find a way to hit the trenches in different ways.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
I would agree with that these are the two best.
You know, we we kind of put this disclaimer out
a couple months ago that we have. Travis Hunter is
the number one Travis Hunter in draft when we rank
the positions. He's kind of his own thing. I would
agree with you the two best pass catchers in the
TEW draft. I'm with you on that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Okay. So at number eight, finally, I know a lot
of people, I'm sure, where's Ted McMillan. All right, here's
Ted McMillan. And for the record, because I'm for the
cause and because I'm trying to be open minded, I
actually went back and watched Ted McMillan a second time
because the first time I was kind of underwhelmed.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
As you know, well it depends which games you watch
with him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
The second time I watched him again. I watched them again,
and I again, I tried, I try, and I see
a vision for him. But what I keep coming back
to is the cop which I just think is is
just a one for one, maybe the perfect comp for
any player in this draft. To me, he's just Drake London, right,
He's Drake London two point zero. Now, Drake London is

(01:15:15):
a thousand yard receiver with good quarterback play in Atlanta.
So it's not like he's a terrible player, right, He's
a very good player. But if Drake London is your
number one receiver, then you kind of have like a
low end wide receiver one as your top dog, right Robinson, Yeah, okay, fine,
you need a complimentary piece at least you need either

(01:15:35):
another one B or you need like the stud. And
he became, you know, the Jamar Chase, and he becomes
the T Higgins. If he's T Higgins to Jamar Chase
for you, he has a really good T Higgins right,
Like T Higgins, I don't think is a bad comp
honestly from a player standpoint, but if he's your Jamar Chase,
I still think that you are behind the eight ball

(01:15:56):
a little bit. The other thing I would say with Ted,
and I'll get to the positives. If you were to
put him in last year's wide receiver class.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Don't do it. You know how I hate this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
If you were to put him into last year's wide
receiver class, I think he's wide receiver five last year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
It's unfair though, because like, yes, this year's a bad
wide receiver class. Last year was generational.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
So my point by bringing that up though, isn't so
much like I hear what you're saying and I get
what you're saying. My point of bringing that up, though,
is that what you're getting at is that you're you're
gonna be reaching on this player at four, Like you're
just you are like this this player at four is
a reach. You know, you are really talking about him
probably comfortably in a regular draft class, being drafted someplace

(01:16:41):
in the teams right or maybe early twenties, and now
the Patriots because they have this glaring need at wide
receiver and he does fill the suit, You're you're gonna
just draft him at four because of the w R
next to his name, And that's risky, Like, that's a
huge risk. That's how teams bust on that position in
particular throughout the course of history in the draft is
by reaching on that position. The things I like about

(01:17:04):
Tet McMillan, he's a little bit misunderstood. I don't think
he's a contested catch artist. I think he's a very
good number.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
People see the size and they project him as he's
not bad at the catch point.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Yeah, it's not bad.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
But his what makes him different than these other like
six five, two hundred and fifteen pound receivers is he
makes plays with bal in his hands. Yeah, he's he's
a thread at all three levels because he can great
after the catch. That's what makes him special. That he
is as good at the contested catch point as you
would expect a six to five receiver to be. He's
not Rainy Moss. Yeah, but he's not completely inefty either.

(01:17:37):
He's solid. He's fine that that alone. Yeah, he'd be
like a Day two pick. It's what he does after
the catch that makes them special. My biggest concern about
Tet McMillan, though, is the consistency. Fifty percent of his
receiving yards last year came in four games, including the
what three hundred something against a really bad New Mexico.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Team, which a tape I have not watched and will
not watch.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
I understand that what you really got to do is
go watch his best game in college I think is
Colorado last year because he took it to Travis Hunter.
I don't know that the only guy that's had better
the only guy that had better success against Hunter as
a corner is Ao Manor from Stanford. And that was
really all in one half. And I don't know if

(01:18:20):
you've watched that one.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Yeah, I'm getting to You're gonna have a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Of fun with that tape. But like McMillan's interviews are
gonna be big because is that lack of that Arizona
team is not good? They were not good. Fafita is
a fine college quarterback. I don't think he's much an
NFL prospect. He's a fine college quarterback. They really didn't
have anything else there. So was it an issue of
teams just completely blanking him and taking away he was

(01:18:43):
getting the you know, the Calvin Johnson treatment. That picture
with the two defenders right there, Like, how did he
see it? I think that's gonna be very telling to
hear his side of why were these games different than
these games?

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I think he's a decent separator for his size. I
think he's a decent route runner. He's a sudden movere.
He can stop and start quickly and create separation. I
think his best route is probably like a comeback or
a nine stop where he just you know, vertically releases
and then stops down at the top of the route
and creates that separation. He's got a good feel for
zone over the middle of the field. Like, I think

(01:19:16):
he's a good route runner for his size at six
foot five, you know, he's a very good change of
direction talent type of player. So don't get it twisted
to think that this guy is like, you know, some
jump ball artist and that's how he made all of
his yards. I don't see him that way. My concern
with him is that he's not He really isn't a burner,
and he doesn't really change gears very well either. He's

(01:19:38):
kind of a glider and more of like that sort
of type of player.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
The way I've said it, he's not slow, yeah, but
you wouldn't call him fast either, like he is functional speech.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
So I don't think he's pulling away from anybody, is
my point. So when you talk about third level separation
and vertical separation and all that kind of stuff, that
stuff becomes important because you need the defensive back. I
respect the fact that he can go by you. Yeah,
And if you don't respect that, then all these comebacks
and nine stops and in cuts and all that kind
of stuff that's all over his tape, that's good. Like

(01:20:09):
now you're just gonna get those suffocated, Like those are
just gonna be the routes everybody covers.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
Well. He also didn't face press in college, so there's
an adjustment.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
So we'll see. I'm not like a hard no on
Ted McMillan. It has to come in a trade down
for me. And like I said, I think that he's
best suited as a robin in an NFL offense to
a true batman. And if they signed to Higgins and
it really doesn't make any sense. You know, it has
to be somebody that's gonna play the Z the slot,

(01:20:39):
you know, play inside off of him playing on the outside.
You know. Last thing I would say maybe one of
his better attributes in terms of if you want really
to get that vertical field stretching ability, he can run
routes from the slot and he does it pretty well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
He can play all three positions, which is kind of
cool for a guy that side. You can't see that.
That's where he's different than Drake Lindon. That is maybe
a little bit better. Yeah, that's pretty rare for guy
that side.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
He's not a first level separator there, Like he's not
gonna run juke routs and things like that. But if
you want him to run the seam, if you want
him to split cover two, like, he can get up
the field that way. And if you get him on
some linebackers and safeties in the middle of the field.
Then he can win those foot and this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Is like, you can put him even if you get
him on a slower corner, yeah, just or a smaller
corner because of the stride length. If you get him,
you don't need him to run a dig to separate
at the first level because he's so big and he
has those long legs. If you get him on a drag,
he'll pull away from the corner and boom. Now he
used the ball with room and run.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Yeah. Yeah again, I fine player, wouldn't take him at
four and would be eyes wide open to the fact
that he's probably not the answer. He's he's an answer,
but he's probably not the answer. All right, So let's
fly through the rest of these because I don't want
to take you one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
More guy on the list. No no, no, no, no,
no no. You had one more guy on that list.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
Yeah too, Oh you too, I remember one, oh at
the very bottom. Yeah, well that's different. Those are my
honorable mentions.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Oh okay, yeah, honorable mentions.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
I'll get to all out of your moment with that.
So my next guy on the list was Will Johnson
out the cornerback from Michigan who I thought was was good.
I think is his own corner. I think he plays
best in cover two, where as a cloud corner on
the flats and you know, ballhawking and off coverage where
he can pedal and read and react and see things
in front of him if he presses. I do worry

(01:22:23):
about his long speed and his ability to stay connected
down the field. But the corner that I compared him
to his Christian ben for with Buffalo, who was one
of the best zone corners in the league. Now i'd
see a little bit of that, see a little bit
of like prime Josh Norman to his game, you know,
like I think those guys are good comps. His tape
against Roma Dunsay and the National Championship game was it
was a good film for him. Had a couple of penalties,

(01:22:44):
but I thought overall was pretty solid against the Dunsa
So I did go back and watch that one. Like
Will Johnson, but not in love with him to the
point where I'm taking him over positions that the Patriots
need a little bit more than corner. But he's in
this conversation, in this trade down scenario, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Good Will Johnson. They have Christian Zalez. There's good cornerback.
He's not a bad position. Free agency, Like you need
a guy that can be a complimentary guy. I'm good.
I don't need them to take Will Johnson fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Last one Kelvin Banks. He came in at number ten
on this list again trade down scenario tier here with
with Kelvin Banks. I think the biggest thing that I
worry about with Kelvin Banks is when he has to redirect,
when he has to change directions and he has to
mirror guys, he tends to lose control and he gets
a little bit wild with his technique when those things happen,

(01:23:34):
and that leads to some really ugly quick losses, right,
which is the ones that you don't want to see
on film. But he's a really good run blocker. I
think he's already really good in that way. And he's
pretty good at protecting his edge, like I think he's
gonna make you take the long way home to the quarterback.
He's very good at, you know, playing inside out and
protecting the inside and making the guy go around the edge,

(01:23:55):
which is what you want and from an offensive lineman.
So I actually look at him and I compared him
to Darnell right with Chicago. You know, just a really
good run blocker who can pass protect. And I actually
wonder if he's best stuited to play right tackle in
the league, especially in this type of system. If he's
here with the Patriots with Josh McDaniels, if he plays

(01:24:15):
on the right side, and their gap heavy again and
they're doubling and they're pulling guards and all that good stuff,
you know, full backs and things. Him next to Mike Godwen,
it would move some people like that would be a
very very good right side. I don't know if he
has the body control and the talent to play on
an island at left tackle in the league. I don't
know if I would put him there, but I do

(01:24:37):
think that he's In this conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
I think you're under selling him a little bit. I
think his athleticism. People are underrating his athleticism and that
makes up for some of the other stuff he's also.
I mean, it's Josh McDaniels. We know they're gonna be
heavy with like screens and things like that. You get
him out in front, leading on a toss or leading
on a screen. Yeah, he's a menace. So I think
he has franchise tackle upside. Now there's a way to

(01:24:59):
get there. Yeah, Like Campbell is more ready plug and play.
I think Banks is more of a project looking closer
at him than maybe I thought during the season, But
I think he can be a set it and forget
it tackle in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
Yep, I agree. I don't know if it will be
on the on the left side, but I agree that
he's a starting caliber tackle in the league. All right,
So my honorable mentions here MIKEL Williams from Georgia. Another
guy that if they were in a different position and
they could take the ball of clay and work with
him and refine his skill set and all that kind
of stuff, Like he's gonna be a good player down
the road. It just might take a year or two

(01:25:34):
to get him there. He'd be fun. I really liked
armand Mambu from Missouri, but he has a little bit
too much Isaiah Winn vibes to me like short with
short arms and like doesn't really have the measurables to
play tackle in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
But if he doesn't play tackle, he's a right tackle.
He's not like you're not considering him on the left.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
Yeah, great, great feet for Membo. Josh Simmons, just a
little blurb on him that I wrote up in this
just if he was healthy, we'd be having a very
different conversation about Josh Simmons. But we'll never know. We'll
never know if he would have performed well in the
College Football Playoff. We never will never know what his
numbers and what his film would have looked like if
he had stayed healthy throughout the entire year. And that

(01:26:16):
injury torn Butteler tendon is the same injury that Cole
Strange had that keep him kept him off the field
for a calendar year. So he suffered that injury in
November against Oregon. That means that you're looking at Thanksgiving
of his rookie year best case scenario, So most likely
you're looking at a red shirt rookie season for Josh Lichens.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
They can't afford to have their first round pick.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Not play no, And he's a great candidate for like
the Niners, the Chiefs, like teams like that that are
are looking for the upside and can have and take
those chances. You know at the back end of the.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Page, and look, it didn't work out. I've compared him
to Dominique Easley. The Patriots tried that, however, many years ago,
because they were in the position to do it. It didn't
work out like that. You want a guy with that
talent later in the draft. That's how you get them.
Malcolm Mitch would be another one.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
Last one.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Do it? Say it?

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
Ashton Denty from Boise State my comp for Ashton Dent.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
I saw this. This was interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Maurice Jones Drew.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
I think he's a little more powerful than that, but
it's not a bad comp.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Low center of gravity, explosive, big playmaker from everywhere. He's
got that trunk right, He's got that that thick lower
body to run through on tackles.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
The Tampa running backer we call the muscle Hamster, Doug Martin.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
Doug Martin's much better.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
He's much better, but he's got that. He's the build.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
I love mj D. Shout out mj D. I think
I think he's got a little bit of MGD in
his game. I wish he was better as a receiver,
Like if he was if he was a true pass
catching back also, then like you could kind of get
that Alvin Kamara vibe did you watch.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
And he didn't watch any of twenty twenty three, did
you No? They used him a lot more in the
pass game last year.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
I wish I was a better receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
You think he's not Kamara, He's not CMC, but he's
a better receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
Right if he was with his contact balance and explosiveness
He's got like he's like the ball carrying running version
of Alvin Kamara, right, but he's not the receiver that
Alvin Kamara was. If he was both of those things together,
then like he would be in Matt McCaffrey. Like take
him in the top ten, and he's.

Speaker 1 (01:28:11):
Not a liability as a receiver though, Like he can
be a factor. You're not gonna build your pass game
around him, but he can. I'm trying to think of,
like who the comp would be for that, who like
wasn't a primary receiving back, but like factored in to
the pass get factors in the pass catching game. I'll
think about it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
So by the last line of this entire post, if
they take out Ashton Gentry in the first round with
their first pick, I will be on the side of
the Tobin Bridge and you will have to talk me
off the ledge so I'm not for it. I'm but
I had to mention his name.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
What I always say, Yeah, I have to talk about it.
You talked about it. I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
Did you like my tears?

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
I did? Those are good. I'm trying to think of
a running back now that's like that kind of Joe
Mixon would be a good one. We're like they would
throw the ball at Joe Mixon a couple times again,
like didn't build anything around it, both in Houston and
in Cincinnati. But like you weren't taking Joe Mixon out
of the game to throw the football.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
That's where I think is. So he's not as big.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
He's not as big, but like that kind of role
in the passing game.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
He's not as big as this guy either, But like,
is he like a souped up Ormandra Stevenson.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Uh. Yeah, he's a better blocker, and Steevens is a
good block That's the other thing. He's a really good
pass blocker.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
You're trying to sell it. It's not working.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
I'm just saying he's a good player. He's gonna be
a Cowboy. That's like the most obvious pick Ever's.

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England Patriots. All Right, I'm very sorry that we've been
keeping all these people on hold and all the emails.
So the last thirty minutes is all going to be
about you, guys. We got emails, we got calls. We're

(01:30:32):
going to start with Patty and Agoam. If he's still there,
what's up, Patty?

Speaker 5 (01:30:36):
I'm still here, guys going on not much. A few questions.
I'll run through them quickly because you know, I don't
want to keep the other calls on the line. But
question one top the draft, do the Titans really run
it back with Billy Jeans and take Abdul Carter Travis Hunter.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
I don't think those two things are mutually exclude. I
think they could go get another quarterback in the veteran
market or draft, you know, Jalen Milroe or Will Howard
on day two Kyle McCord uh to compete with Levis. Basically,
do I always go back to what the Panthers didn't
in I think it's two thousand and nine where they
drafted Jimmy Clausen in the second round. It might have

(01:31:18):
been twenty ten or on day two, and it was
kind of like a well, if he works, great and
if not, we'll have a high pick next you and
we'll actually get the guy and they get cammed, So
I there's a chance that they have a new quarterback
and don't take a quarterback first.

Speaker 5 (01:31:30):
Overall, all right, Question two to deez, do you guys
get to seed? I don't know if it's ruder or boiter,
but Chad Ruter's three round mac on NFL dot Com.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
I didn't see enough. But Chad's a good good I read.
What did he say?

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Oh? Did he have gent six?

Speaker 5 (01:31:50):
I don't know if he HADDENTI six. I just paid attention,
paid attention to the Patriots picks. So he had Carter
going four, He had Arianta Ers going with their second
round pick, and then Isaiah Bond and Henderson running back
from Ohio State, which I wouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
That would be awesome, decent draft.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
I would take that. I mean, I don't love Bond,
he wouldn't love Henderson. So we get some good debate,
but like overall, that'd be a pretty solid draft.

Speaker 2 (01:32:17):
Yeah. I like that one. Why don't you you're a
hater on Bond?

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
Last question.

Speaker 5 (01:32:24):
Before I get to the last question that I'll take
off there, I wanted to know what you guys thought
of this comparison too, because I see a lot of
like Mike Parsons comparisons with Abdul Carter, and he's been
my draft crush since, like I think the Wisconsin and
Ohio State back to back games, I was like, who
the hell is this guy? This guy is a freaking animal.

(01:32:44):
I think the more apt comparison with him that I see,
he's the same size, Dame build and everything is von
Miller because von Miller wasn't great against the run coming
out of college, but he was an absolute freaking animal
coming off the edge. And the last thing, I'll take
it off there, guys, what would you What do you
guys think or how do you feel if you watched

(01:33:07):
anything on him? About Malachi Carter? I think the safety
out of Alabama, who who's kind of like a proof
free safety. And if I got his name wrong, I'm sorry,
but I'll take that off there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Guys, Thanks bag, thanks for the call. Appreciate you waiting.
I don't mind the von Miller comp I hold von
Miller in really high regard, so I try not to
throw that that comp around for a lot of people.
But I guess Michael Parsons is also a pretty dark,
good player.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
I would say von Miller was much more technically advanced.
He had a deeper bag, he was more refined. If
you want to talk about a ceiling, like where does
Carter get to? Yeah, that's probably like if he maxes out. Yeah,
I think he's probably more Von Miller than Michael Parsons.
But it's not about him as a prospect. Like again,

(01:33:54):
Carter just really started playing this position full time last year.
You can see that there is still learning, active learning
going on. Anything on your Malachi Starks is gonna be
a top fifteen pick. I don't think they need to
take a safety that high. I think that's who he
asked me.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
Oh no, he has Malachi Moore more from my.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Yeah, he's not bad. I really like I'm kind of
familiar with him, Like he's fine. I don't know that
he's gonna be If they draft a free safety, I
want them to get a guy that's going to be
able to be on the field sixty seventy percent of
the time. I really like Andrew mccooba from Texas. Yeah,
he he his range is rare, he can cover so
much ground and the ball skills need work, but I

(01:34:33):
think that's coachable but right now he can get to
the spot, which I think is the harder ask. So
he's a you know, late day two pick. I like him.
I liked Billy Bowman at the Senior ball. Moore is
kind of in that same group. He wouldn't be a
bad pick, but there's other players I like better for
that role.

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
Yeah, fair enough, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
Also just that that maculate it. That would be so
perfect for this show. It's not gonna happen because Carter's.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
That's a decent lock, but I'm cool with it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
We get two players that we both love and Phil
needs and all that, and then we get Isaiah Bond
versus Travion Henderson. The debates we're going to have on
those two would be outstanding because I get my bully
ball running back and you get your fast and nothing
else receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
Okay, I think you're under selling one thing about Isaiah
Bond fast and answer the question even fast, And you
were right that he's just a speedster. You're right about that,
but he has built a lot different than like a
taekwondo okay, but like he's not he's not a string bean,
like he fast and fast?

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
That okay, So you still can't answer that question that
I have a need for. When's the next Olympics. That's
where you go.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
If you're just listening and you played, if you played
receiver and he started at Alabama and Texas and like
you're doing something.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
We want Matthew Golden. If we're getting Texas receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
All right, we might talk about Matthew Golden here soon.
All right, Brad is in Ohio? What's up? Brad?

Speaker 3 (01:35:52):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
How you guys doing good?

Speaker 6 (01:35:55):
Good?

Speaker 3 (01:35:56):
I just wanted to agree with Patty about the the
running back from Ohio State, the Henderson guy. Yep, yeah,
I'm you know. I'm a Michigan fan, so I do
agree he would be a great fit.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
Let me ask you this, who would you rather have
Henderson or quin Shawn Jenkins.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
I'd rather have Dave Donovan Edwards.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
That's a true Michigan fan right there. There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:36:22):
Well, no, no, no, I'm just saying I'm him and
a Patriots Josh McDaniel of all fans. I just think
that would really fit, guys, I don't, I really did.
I think Donovan will fit. There's a running back from
Iowa too, I think coming out Johnson and then I'm
just gonna spit out of a couple of names real quick,

(01:36:43):
because I know there's other callers. That way we can
get through these, because you guys can give me an idea.
Is this safety from Ohio State coming out Caleb Downs?

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
No, No, he is at the top of my board
for twenty twenty six. He's so freaking.

Speaker 3 (01:36:57):
Good, outstanding. Yeah, the guy's gonna be a breath. Coach
to Loveland is gonna him and Drake May together would
be a problem for any defense. I agree, you know,
Coach to Loveland against with J. J. McCarthy, that's when
he was actually ever ever able to thrive. And even

(01:37:18):
then they held him back. They didn't really let, like
you said, allow him to, you know, to kind of
transcend into what he should be. And then uh, Josiah
Stewart in the fourth rounds of that possible.

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
Uh yeah, yeah. I thinks for the call, Brad, we
just want to get to everybody. I Jasiah Stewart. I
think it's gonna be a top one hundred packs.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
But he's he's a lot of fun. Uh, He's that
type of guy you're gonna get a lot because he
went to Michigan and He's kind of a situational pass rusher,
like you're gonna hear a lot of But I think
he's his first step is better than was. I think
he's a little bit more explosive off the ball, uh
than Josh was. But he he's a lot of fun
and he was kind of that guy that got a

(01:38:02):
lot of those cleanup sacks and stuff with you know
Graham and the other guys who's the was it Grant
right the DT in the middle and there from Michigan.
So yeah, I really liked him at the Senior Bowl.
Watched his tape and saw a lot of the same things.
Go watch Josiah Stewart against USC last year. Just took
those tackles to freaking lunch, like eight quarterback pressures, two sacks, stripsack.

(01:38:22):
He was all over the quarterback in that game. So
he's a lot of fun. He's not going to set
the edge, like he's not Afroony Jennings. He's not going
to set the edge. But if you want somebody to
rush the quarterback and sack the quarterback on third down,
then Josiah Stewart can definitely do that. Let's go to
one of our favorites, Mark is in Connecticut. What's up, Mark?

Speaker 3 (01:38:41):
Hey, guys, I had a good one for you.

Speaker 6 (01:38:44):
So I am of the thing of moving down between
seven to ten because I think you can add a
second round pick, and by doing that, you can pick
up Kyler Warren. Because we've seen what Drake May. He
likes to throw at a big tight end and it's
just what Josh McDaniels. It's gonna be a great fit,

(01:39:05):
I really believe. And then with that additional second round pick,
you compare that with your third round pick and move
back up at the U into the back of the
first round and maybe get another tackle. If you don't
do that free agency, it's just want to get you
guys to take on that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
I don't hate the idea. Then I don't hate the
idea of moving down to moving back up, whether it's
for Warren, whether it's for somebody else. I like Warren,
and he laid out that's the argument Tyler Warren, Drake
May likes throwing a tight ends. Josh McDaniels is very
experienced with two tight end sets, with maximizing guys like that,
Like you want to talk about, I've shot down a
lot of guys because well, least he's gonna work here.

(01:39:42):
He's a good player, But is he gonna work here? Yeah,
Tyler Warren's the opposite. I think I feel better about
him than I would on a neutral you know, discussing
this neutrally league wide because there is such a clear
path for Tyler Warren in New England. I know it
sounded before like I was shooting it down saying, well,
you know you're gonna run a lot of at twelve. No,
like you're gonna run a lot at twelve with Josh McDaniels.

(01:40:03):
It makes sense. I just want to go back to
last caller too, because he asked about a couple other players. Yeah,
Caleb Johnson is basically your day two Ashon genty, bigger, back, physical,
but has some bursts. He's a good player, Probably gonna
go higher in the patch to take a back. And
then he mentioned Donovan Edwards, who I took in my
last mock draft for the Patriots on ninety five at

(01:40:24):
sports sub dot com. He's exactly right, Donovan Edwards in
a Josh McDaniels offense, if they're gonna go back to
early down and passing down right, and they don't want
to spend big on a running back. I think I
said this to you last week. He's Rex Burkhead. He's
gonna be able to play both roles, and he gives
you backup for Andre Stephenson. He gives you back up
for Antonio Gibson. He's a guy that can be a

(01:40:46):
factor week in and week out and do a variety
of things. So he is a fantastic Patriots fit. He's
currently being projected in the seventh round. I think that's
low but about right. But like grabbing him later on
day three, he fits tremendously into what I think they're
gonna try to do with their running backs.

Speaker 2 (01:41:03):
Yeah. My one question with the tight ends with Warren
and Loveland, and I kind of went back and forth
and had a tough time with this as well. There's
no doubt that Warren is the more well rounded and
more polished, just like you were saying earlier, Like there's
tape of him at a high volume carrying an offense
and all that kind of stuff. There's no doubt about
that with Warren. But even though he's more well rounded,

(01:41:27):
Loveland is definitely the more dynamic player, right, So, like,
which one do you gravitate towards as an offense is
gonna be an interesting conversation that I think is gonna
become closer and closer as the draft gets closer, because
you know, there's gonna be two schools of thought, like
one one school is gonna be you know, this guy
is gonna you know, Loveland is is a true chunk artist,
like he is a big play, explosive athlete at his size,

(01:41:50):
especially whereas Warren is is just a well rounded, polished
tight end prospect. And which one do you gravitate towards? Like,
I think it's a good conversation for.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
What they are right now, I'd probably go with Warren.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
Yeah, I have Warren a little bit ahead of Loveland too.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
I think there are teams where Loveland might make more sense.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
Yeah, and I think a lot of those, you know,
those teams you look at guys, you know, Brat Bauers
is kind of like a unicorn, but like you look
at like a Sam Laporta for example, Like if you
put him in that kind of exotic run, smash mouth
type of team that likes to play action and likes
to sneak tight ends out and all that kind of stuff,
then like having someone as explosive as Loveland. I think

(01:42:32):
it translates a lot like Sam Laporta in De Troit.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
You know, I could totally see Loveland Kansas City. Okay,
I can see that like as Travis Kelsey's replacement.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
Yeah, that's a good point. Andy is in Subbury. What's
up Andy? Hey?

Speaker 6 (01:42:47):
Guys?

Speaker 4 (01:42:47):
How are we doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
Good?

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
Good?

Speaker 4 (01:42:50):
So I'm completely in agreement with you. If either Hunter
or if either if either Hunter or Carter is THEREK
for you take him. Other than that, I would trade
down to about the six or seventh spot. And I'm
still a Teed McMillan guy. But I really was interested

(01:43:12):
in hearing you guys out on Tyler Warren because I
love him and like you said, Jess McDaniels is a
master with poo tight insects. I could see him with
Paul and with Hunter, Henry and Drake me.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
Thanks guys, thanks for the calling. He appreciate it. We
talked a lot about Tyler Warren earlier, but we're both there.
I think Tyler Warren is a guy that's on both
of our radars, probably in the trade down, but really
intriguing player. Do you want to get to some of
these emails. We got a bunch of emails. Can we
do rapid fire?

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
We can because I want to give.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
These guys. So Floyd email is in from Michigan. Floyd's
a regular listener, so I appreciate that, and he kind
of gets me here a little bit. This is a
good rebuttal to my Will Campbell over Mason Graham. He
said that I have said in the past that you
don't reach on need in the draft, that you take
the best player available. You don't reach on need. And

(01:44:05):
a lot of people have Mason Graham over Will Campbell.
So wouldn't taking Will Campbell over Mason Graham be reaching
because of the tackle position. I think my just one
kind of rebuttal. It's a good point. He kind of
got me there a little bit. Is just that I
have I look at Will Campbell Mason Graham as closer
as prospects than other people.

Speaker 1 (01:44:23):
I don't that's I understand not reaching for talent people.
Why are you reaching for Will Campbell? I don't think
I'm reaching. Now, let's see again city our measurement. But
in this interesting he's still training as a tackle. Yep,
Jeremy or as of like two three weeks ago. Yeah,
so he knows something maybe there, Like, I don't think
it's a reach for Will Campbell at four. I don't

(01:44:43):
I wouldn't reach for a player at four. I don't
think Will Campbell's all reach it for.

Speaker 2 (01:44:47):
Yeah, I agree with that. This is from Brian who
says that he's a listener since the Sealing s days,
so shut out there to clintis the Travis Hunter question
that I think we get a lot here?

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
Is is it like having two bites of the apple with
one player because if you try him out at receiver
and he fails, then you can move him to corner
or vice versa. Like, do you feel like that adds
value to that Travis.

Speaker 1 (01:45:11):
Underdill, because that's not really what it is, because he's
still getting older as you're going, and what at twenty six,
twenty seven, you're gonna have him start learning a new
position that he probably hasn't spent a lot of time
at the last few years. It honestly kind of reminds
me when I worked in minor league baseball and these
guys would come through after you know, four or five
years trying to be a catcher, trying to be a
shortstop couldn't get up to the system and that you know,

(01:45:33):
they go back to a ball and start trying to pitch.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:36):
So, and it's not a perfect comparison, but like, no,
your your development plan is what it is. If it
doesn't work, somebody else is probably going to try to
do that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:44):
Yep. So a couple of Josh Simmons questions. One person
pointed out that in the past Vrabel is taking some
risks on some injury guys, you know, Caleb Farreley like that,
those types of players back, and another one just asking it.
You know, didn't hear us talk about Josh Simmons. I
did mention him in my Honorable Mentions in my post
this morning on Patriots dot com. But I think the

(01:46:06):
biggest thing to me with a guy like Simmons is
just that we'd be having a different conversation. If he
was healthy and he played the same way throughout the
entire college football season that he did in the first
five games, then he would be left tackle ot one,
Like he'd be the top tackle in the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:46:22):
That's what I don't want to hear. Well, you know,
if he was healthy, but he's not. Yeah, we're not
drafting in a world where he's healthy, So you just
you can't make that argument because it's not the reality.

Speaker 2 (01:46:33):
YEP. Question from David, another regular listener from Madrid. He
mentioned that he read the breakdown I did on the
Rabel and Terrell Williams defense and talking a lot about
four to five defenses and even fronts and four to
three and that kind of stuff, And does that change,
you know, the way that they approach the draft, And
I definitely think it does. But I do wonder if

(01:46:56):
Rabel's a good coach, and good coaches are able to adapt, right,
and if he looks at it and he says, okay, well,
we could try to run the four down mechanics that
we ran in Tennessee. But that's a complete overhaul, like
defensive line linebacker room, like Jawan Bentley can't be here,
Jelani Tavai can't be here, you know, Devon Godshaw can't

(01:47:17):
be here, like these guys that have played a lot
of snaps for you and are important players over the
last couple of years. I'm not saying that they could.
They might, they won't take that approach, but I do
wonder if they kind of pivot or tweak, so they
don't have to completely throw everybody out at the bathwater, right,
because then you're getting into a position now where you're
talking about like a two or three year rebuild on

(01:47:39):
the defensive side of the ball, and you're in this
canoe and you have all these holes and you're taking
on water, and now you're just creating more holes in
the canoe by doing that. So I do think that
there's a happy medium there, like a balance that they
could strike. What that sort of thing? Yeah, all right,
do we have a lot of lengthy questions here, but

(01:48:03):
so this one of rumors, you know, free agency rumors,
AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, T Higgins, you know all the
name wide receivers you hear a lot about. I don't
think that the AJ Brown rumors are very realistic, do you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
I wish I'd like them to be. I don't know
that they are, but I'm gonna keep my hopes up.

Speaker 2 (01:48:21):
We do have some people outside of this show and
outside of you that are starting to talk a little
bit about DK Metcalf coming available. So maybe so.

Speaker 1 (01:48:29):
Let me address this. Let me address this one thing
on DK Metcalf. I know there was that clip he
was on with was it? Uh who was he on
with like a couple of weeks ago, Katie Nolan, Yeah,
I think and was asked, you know, oh, and he
said like, oh, I'd never live in Massachusetts. One, it's
always Rhode Island. That's not a bad commute. Two And
more realistically, like guys say that if you're gonna if

(01:48:51):
you know you might be negotiating a contract with the
Patriots down the road, Yeah, you're not gonna say yeah,
I'd love to play there, right, So you know he's
not gonna live here. There's a dollar amount that he'll
live here. And I think it's very important for the
Patriots to let it be known. For Metcalf, for Brown,
for any other wide receiver that's thinking that they need
their next deal, there is a big fat contract waiting

(01:49:11):
for them if they can make their way here. I
think that's important to be known. I'm not ruling Dk
Metcalf out because that comment he made with Katie Nolan,
not saying that it's not relevant. But everybody has their price,
you know, for for thirty million a year, come live
here for three four years. Yeah, Suddenly that conversation looks
a little different.

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
So I feel as similarly with T Higgins, because I
feel like a lot of people are they're not They're
not gonna get T Higgins. There's no way he'd pick
to come here if he's an unrestricted free agent. I
feel the same way a little bit with T Higgins.
Where is T Higgins? Is he Jamar Chase? No, he's
not Jamar Chase. But the Patriots are kind of in
a spot where they just have to overpay for talent

(01:49:51):
at this point. So I'm rolling out the red carpet
for T Higgins too if he's a free agent, and
I'm winning the bidding war, and a lot of these
players like they'll just take the highest. He will take
the money, They'll take the money. And I also think
you're in a little bit of a positioning. You have
an NFL caliber head coach. Now, you have a respected,
you know, high end coach and Mike Rabel, and you

(01:50:13):
have a quarterback, a young quarterback, but a quarterback that
I think a lot of receivers will look at and say,
I don't know if we're gonna win right out of
the shoot. I don't know if we're gonna be you know,
if we're gonna where exactly how long it's gonna take.
But he can get me the ball, Like, there's no
question about that. So if you're a receiver and you
get the money, you got a quarterback that can play,

(01:50:34):
you have a coach that knows what he's doing. It's
not the greatest situation, but it's not the worst situation
either anymore. I think there is right worse situations. So
I think that that that hasn't going for has they
have that going for them? And like I said, you
just just throw money at them. Just just you gotta try.
You gotta try. You gotta try to pitch te Higgins

(01:50:56):
on coming here. All right, we'll take this last call
and then we'll do some recency bias worry how about that?
All Right? William is in Philly? What's up, Willie?

Speaker 3 (01:51:04):
Hey?

Speaker 7 (01:51:05):
What's going on? How you doing? He could all right, Hey,
all right, I got I guess I gotta make this
showing brief because I don't call like that like I
used to when a So is this this a third
rebuild basically or is this.

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
Going to be the fourth? Uh?

Speaker 7 (01:51:25):
Second, it's the second? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
Well, because so like the Cam Newton year was a reset,
they tried the mac Jones rebuild. And now that like
I I market by quarterbacks. I guess if you want
to say it's by coaches, then he adds third, but
I go by quarterbacks, so it's second.

Speaker 7 (01:51:43):
Okay. The gentlemen, they gotta get they gotta get this right, seriously,
like Elliot wolfs got to get this right. I mean,
it's you had the due threat, the dual threat quarterback.
You have the coach, all right, you you let's go.
You know what I'm saying, like, let's go. Let's don't
play a round. Know who you want going for the
AC going to Drake, get your players that you're supposed

(01:52:04):
to have this build this put players around Trake. Make
you didn't do around Meg Jones, you really did. You
played around and s going on his rookie deal.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
This.

Speaker 7 (01:52:13):
Don't do that to Drake. Okay, And that's what I
have to say.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
Thanks, Thanks, William appreciated. Good to hear from you. Uh yeah,
look at I don't hold what Bill Belichick did against
this regime. I don't even really hold what happened last
year against his dream. I know Elliot Wolf's still here.
I know he has a prominent title, but they're they're
the Big Three, Mike Rabel, Ryan Cowden, Elliott Wolf. Two
of them have the same brain, and that's Mike Rabel

(01:52:38):
and Ryan Cowden. And when you get to that vote
and there's two against one on everything, like, who do
you think is going to win the battle? Right, It's
gonna be Mike Rabel. Mike Rabel is gonna have the
final say. So, I don't necessarily look at it like
it's the same front office, is the same setup. I
think it's pretty significantly different. So there's a new rebuild.
It's it's thanks they're basically on try number three. I

(01:53:01):
guess try number two. I would say, really, yeah, of
trying to do this whole thing all right, uh, recent bias,
what do you got?

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
I got two for you there. These are depth players
I'm getting really in the research now, Okay. Number one, Yeah,
Joseph Evans utsa geez so for all he was the
Shrine Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
Yeah, for all.

Speaker 1 (01:53:21):
We talk about, you know, Mason Graham and Dion Walker
and like these interior pressure guys, they also need to
get a true run stopping nose tackle. Doesn't need to
be in the top one hundred, but they need to
get a guy who can stop the run. Joseph Evans,
big physical think he's like six five three forty from Utsa.
Had an injury last year that cost the most of

(01:53:41):
the season. That's kind of knocked him down boards. He's
a late day three guy now. But we're gonna do that.
We do this every year. We find like a handful
of nose tackles we like late in the draft and
just try to throw them in mock drafts to be like,
that guy's gonna help address the run. So I just
did my first mock draft. I needed one of those guys.
Joseph Evans UTSA.

Speaker 2 (01:53:58):
Okay, roadrunner.

Speaker 1 (01:53:59):
Road Runner, that's right, next one, meet me my other one.
And I saw some people talking about this in the
chat earlier. Kicker is indeed, so I I finally went,
you like, looked at all.

Speaker 2 (01:54:09):
The cower in fifty five minutes into the show, Allow
a kicker minute.

Speaker 1 (01:54:13):
Go ahead, Well, under Bill, the kind of role thumb
was they wanted kickers with experience kicking in inclement weather,
which I think is a good idea. I would hope
they continue that. But I'm looking at this class. These
are all guys that kicked in the South. There's really
not a lot of guys with the experience kickers. One
is Joonahdalmas who was not good in the playoffs Softom

(01:54:34):
Boys and State. If there's one guy that fits better,
call Sauls. Ben Sauls from pitt He was what is it?
I think five of six from fifty plus last year
and a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (01:54:46):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
He's used to kicking the afterture at Heinz Field.

Speaker 2 (01:54:49):
Which is it's one of the toughest, if not the
toughest stadium for NFL kickers.

Speaker 1 (01:54:55):
I don't know that they're going to draft a kicker
this year. I think there's a chance that they bring
back Sly or another VAD and that guy competes with
Romo and maybe UDFA. Maybe Sauls is a u DFA.
I don't know. There's I'm okay not using a draft
pick or high draft pick on a kicker this year.
They it's not the class to do it. But if
they want a rookie kicker, to me, Ben Sauls is

(01:55:15):
the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
Ben Salts the kicker, there's your kicker. I am definitely
in a much different spot in my research than you, clearly,
so I'm still in the top one hundred and.

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
Hang out real quick, because I have his numbers six
of seven from fifty plus last year, twenty one of
twenty four total.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
Okay, there's your kicker minute Ben Saws. So a couple
of guys that I think, uh, you know, stood out
to me. One of them I think is gonna it.
Surprised you. I texted you about it this morning. I
was pleasantly surprised by Trey Harris from ole Mis. He
not a burner, definitely not a burner. Not your guy,
that's not your turn receiver. He can't run. He's probably

(01:55:51):
gonna run like a four five five like honestly, he's
He's definitely not fast.

Speaker 1 (01:55:55):
So he has an ad isaya bond. Doesn't have an
hand so he has quite.

Speaker 2 (01:55:59):
The end, but his is He's a very very good
route runner, very good route runner, like deceptive good salesman,
changes tempo, changes, speeds within the route, can separate at
the top break down at six foot three like to
be able to get in and out of a break
in the three steps and gain ground out of breaks
and create separation at the top of routes like that's

(01:56:20):
hard to do with that size. He has some catch radius,
he has some gantastic catchability as well. What I what
I was intrigued by is that, Okay, if we're talking
about third round, you know, the Atlanta pick or their
original third round pick, once he runs the forty fair
when we talk about those that range of the draft.
Like his skill set, he is a typical perimeter receiver,

(01:56:45):
Like he is an outside X receiver. Is he the
X receiver? No, but he is a X receiver. And
if they are going to you know, get some other options,
you know, fill some other holes elsewhere on this offense
to be bringing dine guys like, I think he fills
a role on the outside. So the comp that I
came up with was Brandon lafel Right, who also ran

(01:57:07):
like a mid four five. Wasn't a burner, but was
a good route runner, was good at the catch point.
I had some size to him, had some girth to
his body type, and that was just kind of heady, right, Like,
he's just kind of witty with his route running. And
I look at I look at Trey Harris's similar type
of player. I thought that I was going to get

(01:57:27):
into Trey Harris's film and see a slow, contested catch,
jump ball kind of guy and I thought that he
ran routes a lot better than what I was expecting.
So if we're talking about him in the third or
fourth round after he runs a four to six, then like, sure,
I'm in. I think I could be persuaded with that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:43):
I think realistically, and this is gonna sound counterdudive. That's
the highest they should be taking a receiver is like
late in the third because they need to go get
a veteran. They need to go get a proven guy,
and they're you can only have so many bodies at
the position, and these guys need to play. So you know,
let's say they add t Higgins. Yeah, him and McMillan

(01:58:03):
aren't gonna be on the field together. Now him and
Buka Mike might make sense, but yeah, you don't. There's
other positions where they need premium asslets. They have Pop
Douglas coming back, they have Kendrick Bord coming back like Kaishawn.
But you have depth guys, yeah right, you have depth receivers.
It's not like you have nothing in that room. You
need somebody at the top of the depth chart. And
that guy, unless you know it's Ted McMillan, who you're

(01:58:24):
you don't even sound convinced about would be that that
guy's probably not in this draft. So like a guy
in that range, like I really like Kay Williams from
Washington State who's probably gonna go around there maybe a
little later. That's about where they should probably be taking
a receiver. And in the Josh McDaniels offense, the X
is not as much of a factor, so just having
you don't need that, maybe you don't need that dominant X.
If they get one, great and McDaniels will adjust, but

(01:58:46):
it's not necessary like it is in some other offense.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
So I look at it like in the top one
hundred the tiers of that X prototype. So obviously Ted
is the is the top tier in this draft, right,
He's the top tier X. I think Jayden Higgins is
tier two. I think he's the second best X receiver
in this class. And that body type, you know, six '
three plus, good size, good catch radious, good ability to
win on the outside. And then I would put Trey

(01:59:10):
Harris as the third tier, right, So we're doing those
like rungs the tiers of player. I liked him a
lot more than I thought I was going to, so
I'm kind of in on Trey Harris. Now, last thing
I just look at, you know, a lot of those
Day two guys for Strepo, Jalen Noel, the kid from
Utahs Day. What's his name, Yeah, Jalen Royals. Those guys

(01:59:33):
are slots. Like those guys are kind of pure slot
maybe Z type of receivers and Royal's case. So there's
not a ton I would say true ex body types
on Day two other than Higgins and and other than Harris, Like,
those are the two guys that are kind of in
that mold. So I liked them. I thought he was
a good player. That's it. That's all I got, all right,

(01:59:55):
So that does it for today's show as a beefy show,
that's it. That was a catch twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (02:00:00):
Yeah, we got you wanted the draft, you gave me the.

Speaker 2 (02:00:02):
We were in the weeds on that one, and we
came out of the gate hot with some of your
super Bowl takes, your yours.

Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
I heard too much the last few weeks and not
take that victory.

Speaker 2 (02:00:11):
Listen. So we'll be back next week, do a little
combine preview combines right around the corner a week from
Mondays almost mark sec and maybe I won't be alone
maybe we'll see, we'll see. We're working on it, so
we'll be back next week, same time, same place to
break down the Combine, preview the Combine, talk about arm
length and all that good stuff, so I can't wait

(02:00:32):
for that. And one last time, Easy to Drink, Easy
to Enjoy bud Light, the official beer sponsor of the
New England Patriot. We'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 1 (02:00:39):
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