Patriots Catch-22 2/26: Davon Godchaux Trade Report, Eliot Wolf Reaction, Latest Buzz from NFL Combine

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Barth Blazarre and Blazarre. Everybody nailed it.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
He joined us always.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Buying our bark.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Here's Evan Lazar and Alex bars in Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
In said Kevin Byard. For years was rabel and say
that again.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Kevin Byarn tired, Yeah to buy art on the A.
Why do you harp on that?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Does it make?

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I have never heard of I'm rolling here, you.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Said his continue Kevin Byrn, Whatever you want to go on?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Right? Yeah. I love it when I know in the moment,
and I knew last week, Oh this is going to
be the teaser for next week. I love it when
I guess it.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
People say we bicker too much, but to me, that's
the best part of the show. That's the whole as
you just made you. Are you settled? Are you settled
in your your your laptops plugged in? Everything? Is I
am all good looking for Bradley, just like jump through
hoops for you.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I don't know why I scheduled like the the nerdiest
thing drafting I was gonna do right before the show,
because of course it was gonna run long. Uh, interview
with the land Zerline from NFL dot Com. Coming to
the Sports Up later. But uh, it's been fun and
I'm ready to go. Let's do it. Catch twenty two
from the Combine.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Talk about talent. That was a talent move right there. Hey,
can you plug this in for me? God brutal.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I would have done nor the plug store. All right,
you guys have a much bigger table in Weed. You
got this whole setup. It's nice, helmet, it's nice.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
I like it all right. Well, obviously we are live
here from the Indiana Convention Center at the NFL Scouting Combine.
This is pretty cool. This is pretty cool. This is
another look mom, we made it moment right now doing
a live show from the Combine. This is right in
our wheelhouse obviously, where.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
We've done live shows from now so we've done previous employer,
super Bowl, previous employer Yeah right, yeah, Shrine bol grind Bole.
I feel like there's one more or am imagining that.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't know which we got it next year, Senior Ball,
I'm speaking that into.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
That would be great.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I spoke to you coming to the Combine to exist.
You're not going to do that for the Senior Bowl
next year, so we have a lot to talk about.
We actually just had a little bit of Patriots breaking
news right off the top of the show, so we'll
get today here in a second, and uh, just a
lot to talk about over the last couple of days.
We don't have phones today, so just if you're calling in,
you're not going to hear from us. Sorry, you don't

(02:31):
have phones, but we do have emails, so hit us
up on the emails at podcast at Patriots dot com
if you want to tune in on the emails and
weigh in, I should say on the emails, we can
do it that way for this week. But before we
get really rolling here, it's our favorite ad read of
the week. Hey Pats fans. If you want to see
Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV, go

(02:53):
to buy Atyota dot Com is Toyota's official website for
deals for the official vehicle of the New England Paige.
It's Toyota let's go places and easy to drink, easy
to enjoy, but like the official beer sponsor of the
New England Patriots. So I was gonna start with.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
This looks good by that I just finally pulled up
my com He's got a great job.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Good they do a good job. So I was gonna
start with Elliot Wolf, who we just heard from about
an hour ago or two hours ago, I guess now,
And we got to talk to him here at the
table as well, and that will be up on Patriots
dot com here shortly. So that was an exciting conversation
really quickly, total NERD moment for me. With Elliott here

(03:32):
at the table, I asked him a question about Travis Hunter,
and one of the questions I asked, what I was
asking him specifically about, was do you have to do
two different scouting reports for him, like one as a
corner and one as a receiver and fill out a
completely different form for each. And he actually said that's
exactly how they did it. They had their scouts in

(03:54):
Colorado mentioned Macro in Colorado scouted Travis Hunter and had
submitted two different scouting reports on travel.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
I mean that makes sense. Maybe eventually these kinds of players,
because I think this is going to become I don't
know that it will be ever common, yeah, but I
mean Travis Hunter is a nobody's played two ways like
this in a long time. Maybe you'll start getting like
three or four of these guys in the nation every year.
And you know, I don't think Hunter's gonna play both
ways in the NFL full time. I don't think anybody
can play both ways full time in the NFL. But

(04:23):
it is going to you saying that if you'll allowed
me to nerd out for this whole thing is just
nerding out.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, welcome to the combat.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I do wonder if if you know, because Travis Hunter
is gonna inspire more kids to play this style football,
and how does that impact the scouting process? Like I
thought it was interesting, Elliott Well said today, and we're
the only two people on the planet who would find
this interesting besides maybe him. Yeah, but it was an
interesting point. He was asked about just the landscape of
nil and in current college football, and he said, well,

(04:49):
you know, when guys transfer, we actually get more data
on the players because it used to be you'd ask
one coaching staff and you were to take that one
evaluation for what it was. Now you're gonna hear from two, three,
maybe four different coaching staffs about a player, So you
get a wider range of information. You may be able
to get confirmation you able to be able to get
conflicting reports, which allows you to go deeper. So I

(05:10):
thought that was that was interesting on a I don't
know how much it impacts the Patriots. I don't know
what that means. They're gonna draft more transfer guys. Most
guys are transfer guys at this point. I don't think
you'd be picking in that regard. But I thought that
was interesting from him today too.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
So we'll get some more takeaways here about Elliot Wolf
and Mike Rabel yesterday speaking to the media basically doing
like a media car wash. He was available for essentially
like an hour of time between all the different things
that he's stacked together there in that short period of time.
So we'll talk about that too. But before we get
into all of that, the breaking news right now from
Ian Rappaport NFL Network. I'm gonna just read the tweet

(05:44):
because I find the way it was phrased Alex to
be really interesting. Here, the Patriots have given defensive tackle
Devon Godshaw permission to seek a trade, sources said. This
is according to rap Sheet. There has been contact with
interested teams, and this is a line that I found
really interesting. The veteran is likely on the move given
the team's defensive scheme shift. So they got a lot

(06:07):
about this on the show. I tried to ask Rabel
about this yesterday. He didn't want to necessarily commit himself
to one direction in terms of four to three, three four,
all that different kinds of things. But use the word
he used to describe defensive coordinator Torell Williams yesterday was aggressive,
that he coaches aggressive defensive lineman. Now, I guess you

(06:30):
could look at that and you could be aggressive with
your hands, you could be aggressive with power, you could
be aggressive in different ways. But the way that I've
taken it, and then obviously we've discussed the Tennessee tape
and going back to Tennessee and looking at the four
to three, the one gapping, the different things that they
did in Tennessee, it does sound like Godshaw a prototypical

(06:52):
three four Belichick two gapping nose tackle, that base eater,
that is a space heater. Great way to put it.
That's not going to be a fit in this scheme.
To put that line in there, particularly about the scheme shift,
I found really fascinating.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
And it's funny we were just talking about was this
two hours ago, we were talking about Devon gottshat because
I talked to Cameron Jackson, the defensive tackle from Florida
we've talked about on the show. Was that the Senior
Bowl guy like and we were kind of arguing. I
was like, Oh, he's a defensive lineman. You guys like, no,
he's just like just a defensive tackle, the nose tackle.
But he he is, I guess, but he's he's not
the same kind of player as Barmore. He plays with

(07:27):
more athleticism, he's more rangy, he's not quite as powerful,
even though he's like three hundred and thirty five pounds.
And I think it is that tone shift towards the
I mean, let's do it day one, day two, day three,
Mason Graham, Deon Walker, Cam Jackson, Right, that's what we do.
That kind of player is gonna be a fit, whereas
your true nose tackles now maybe aren't. Yeah, and I

(07:48):
just one more thing, yep, I do like I think
it is getting ahead of them for a team. And
Ellie Wolf talked about this earlier where they put players
in bad situations at times last year gotchaf They are
making this change, probably not going to be in a
good situation New England schematically, they're giving an opportunity to
get out rather than try to make it work, try

(08:09):
to put the square peg in a round hole and
potentially have a problem down the line.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
That's a good sign. Yeah. So usually you know in
their four to three in Tennessee at least they played
a lot of overfronts right where you have a three technique,
so that's a player that's gonna line up over the
outside of the guard right right outside of his on
his outside hip, and then you would play with a
one technique which is shaded into the A gap, so
instead of straight up on the center, you're now off

(08:33):
into the A gap a little bit in between that
gap there. And when you look at that type of player,
typically you do talk about somebody that's more aggressive, that
gets up the field, that's shooting the gap right versus
just trying to hold the point of attack and build
that wall and mirror and react to the movement of
the running back. So you look at this class and

(08:55):
you do start to think about some of these guys
that might be fits in more in that penetrating fund
and you know, maybe granted like in terms of order
and all that. I don't know if all these guys
are gonna be available where the Patriots could pick them,
But obviously Mason Graham at the top I think fits
that mold.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Actually give me a interesting nugget I just got from
Uzzer Line. Yeah, he has Walter Nolan ahead of Mason Graham.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
So I was gonna bring up Walter Nolan next. I
I think there are some things about Walter Nolan I
don't love. I think when he gets uh, he stalls
out sometimes in his pass rush and his bull rush
because he gets too high, and he's kind of one
of those guys that's you know, he's either gonna hit
it and you know, fire off the ball and he's
gonna be immediately in the backfield, or he's gonna get
stood up and that's gonna be the end of the

(09:37):
rep for him. I don't typically like I like those
guys that have that like second reaction ability that they
can kind of keep going and have that motor. Mason
Graham is I think a motor guy in that respect,
but Walter Nolan is the next name I was going
to go to. You know, one of those types of
players that can really get up the field really shoot gaps,
you know, and we can go on down the line here.
There's there's so much talent on this defense to line class.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Where where do you put Dion Walker in this? Because
he's built like the three fourteen gaping nose tackle, but
he doesn't play like it.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
So I Deon Walker if I had to just think
about a Patriot comp a little bit, He's not. He's
a tough player to con He's not built exactly the same.
I'm just talking about roll right specifically to roll. Like
remember when they tried to make Danny Shelton into like
a two gapping nose tackle and that just wasn't really
great for him, and he was more of, you know,

(10:28):
play a primary gap and either shoot it or hold
it or whatever at that primary gap. I look at
Dion Walker as a similar type of player.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
He's quicker though, uh.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Maybe Danny Shelton was.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Was am I underestimating Danis.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Shellon maybe a little bit? I mean not not like
not saying that Danny Shelton was Vince Wolfe.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Or you know how I feel about Dean Walker.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I think that I see what
you're saying that, Yeah, you know, you think of a
player like that, and you think of him being not
a finesse player necessarily, but not as agile or as quick,
but more powerful and you know, block eating or space
eating as you said earlier. I could definitely see that
one being a part of it. You know, just a

(11:09):
couple of other guys, uh Peebles from UH was in
Virginia Tech, right, Yeah, you know those types of players.
You know, those guys can really get up the field
and get off the ball and fly off the ball.
I think this is a welcome thing for the Patriots,
I really do. I think, you know, for two reasons.
Primarily one, early down pass rush. If you're gonna two

(11:30):
gap and you're gonna read and react and hold up
blocks and things like that, you're inherently gonna have a
hesitation to pass rush. And with the amount of pass
rush or amount of passing that teams do on first
down nowadays, whether it's play action or just straight dropback,
that I do really think, you know, SAPs the pass
rush ability of your early down pass rush because you

(11:52):
have to hold up you know, you're holding the block
and then you're reading pass and then you're probably ripping
through or something like that. To get to the quarterback.
So there's that little bit of hesitant. The other thing
I would say that I like about, you know, one gap,
being more aggressive. You see all around the league now
the Shanahan outside zone, wide zone team offenses, and when

(12:12):
you look back at that Super Bowl against the Rams
in twenty eighteen, the line that Belichick kept using on
the sideline is get vertical, right. You have to penetrate
against that kind of scheme. You can't try to hold
up blocks against wide zone. That's playing into the strength
of the scheme. What you want to do is get
up the field, penetrate the backfield, and throw off the

(12:33):
rhythm and the timing of the blocks that way. So
with all these wide zone teams across the league, and
with all these teams throwing a ton on first down,
I like being more aggressive. I think this is the
right way to go.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
I think so too, And I guess along similar lines,
like when we talked to Rabel yesterday, he was asked,
you know, about his blitz philosophy, and he said, it's
more about when you do it than how much you
do it, which is code for, among other things, you
don't plan on blitzing a ton if you don't plan
on blitzing a ton. You have to get home with four,

(13:06):
which is something where the Patriots, they were either worse
in the league or among the worst in the league
last year at getting home with.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
There were twenty ninth in overall pressure rate and thirty
first or thirty second and four man.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, so it was down there. So to Von gotcha,
there's a lot of things he does well, that's not
an area where he's gonna help you. So if you're
gonna be doing more of that, yeah, you need a
more dynamic player in that spot.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, a couple more names just to throw out there
at this spot because now if Godshaw's on the move,
they're reinventing this defensive line here on to fly, I.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Really what's left him. Most of these guys are free agents,
that's true. Although the one guy I look at who
is who I would bring back from the group is
a free agent. Is I almost said, Danny Shelton, Danny Aquala,
Daniel quality. He fits this.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, so you look at this, you know this defensive
line class. I think everybody you speak to, and Elliott
Wolf said this to day as well on the podium.
It's the strength of the class, the defensive line class.
I think there was something like forty two guys or
something like that here today that talk to us at
the podiums like it's the strength of the class. And
with that in mind, you know Day two is gonna

(14:14):
have a lot of starting talent. Daniel Jeremiah right now
has twenty four starting grades on defensive linemen, So that
means that you're gonna get defensive lineman that can start
in the NFL into Day three of the draft. And
that's why I've said over and over again that I'm
not the biggest fan of the Mason Graham pick at four,
not because I don't like the player, but because it's

(14:34):
such a deep class that I think you're gonna get
players that can make an impact on Day two. You know,
I'm gonna butcher his name probably, but JJ Peguez from
Old miss is another one. I mentioned Peebles, Darius Alexander
from Toledo. But these are the types of guys that
are those one tech three techniques and that can do
these types of things.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I'll even say on the like that extends to the
edge too. Yeah, and a guy I was really impressed
with today is Princely umin me, Yeah, from Ole Miss.
We talked to him today and he kind of broke
down his process and how he approaches you know, the
the chess match with tackles and things like that, and
talked about being aggressive and those sorts of things. So
I'm with you, Like Mason Graham certainly a good player,

(15:15):
but the drop off for Mason Graham to the guy
you're gonna get later on, even if you move up
right into the twenties and you take a guy like
Jack Sawyer or you take a guy like Darius Alexander,
whether you want to go edge, mid or whatever, right right,
that drop off is not nearly as significant as all right,
like you didn't take well Campbell, How high up do
you have to go to get Ursery or Connery?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
And then what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like I like Anthony Belton, but Anthony Belton's really raw
and he might be a right tackle, he might not
be a left tackle. You're like, the Anthony Belton equivalent
on the defensive line probably isn't going till day three.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
It's a better player, right Well.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I'm saying that caliber of play here.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, yeah, all right, So that's a devon Godshai can
obviously wait and on that and the emails. Like I said,
but just the news off the top of the hour
here the Patriots have given Devon Godshaw permission to seek
a trade and as Ian Rapaport put in his tweet
scheme shift and also look sounds like this might get done,
you know, like there might be a trade partner here.

(16:17):
There there is some interest across the market. Let's get
into Elliott Wolf. He spoke here today, Like I mentioned,
that's up on patriots dot com and on our YouTube
channel if you want to check out the full press conference.
Just right off the top before we get into some
of the specifics about what he said in terms of
free agency in the draft, I couldn't help but notice
sort of a mirroring to Robert Craft's press conference at

(16:39):
the end of the year, and that is just right
off the top opening statement ownership of.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
We messed up. We got we I I I messed up?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah right, And I thought the line obviously that was
harrowing was him saying every single time Drake may or
Jacoby brissetid took the hit, he felt responsible, you know,
and I think he shares a lot and what the
fans are thinking I understand it doesn't make every fan
feel better about the fact that, you know, he's still
empowered here in this organization in the front office. He's
still gonna have his detractors, and he's still gonna have

(17:09):
people that don't want him in a position of power.
But with that being said, I think that's the right
thing to say in his position. There's really nothing else
you can't say besides that.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
No, there isn't. And I'm glad he said it. And
I don't remember if we talked about this last week
on the air, off the air, whatever. Yeah, Like one
of the big things I was looking for coming into
this week, coming into today was if Eli will still
his final say, which sounds like he sort of has
a version of it. What did he learn from last year?
You have to look at last year and say, I

(17:39):
need to do this differently, I need to do this differently,
I need to do this differently, I need to do
this better, I need to do this more, I need
do this less right, and on and on and on,
And I kind of figured it was going to be
a read between the lines, like the kind of thing
Felgre and Mascow nuts for right, Like we're gonna read
between the lines as he was really saying, Nope, he
gave it to us.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
He gave it to us.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Talked about player development with the rookie class Jalen Polk,
He said that, he literally said they stunted his growth
with Jalen Polk. Talked about missing intel, bad intel on
the free agent class Chooks, A kor Force on a
Taki Taki, kJ Osborne, things we talked about this year.
Those players, well two of them were not who the
Patriots thought they were when they signed him. Another guy

(18:19):
was an injury and maybe something happened with the medicals
something like that. Yeah, the injury on Taki Taki is
a good point in terms of that detail, in terms
of the background. So now look, how often do I
say this about anything they do saying the right things. Great,
you gotta do something about it. But he basically came
out and laid out, here's everything I did wrong in
twenty twenty four. And you don't do that unless you're

(18:41):
gonna change your approach, or unless the team's gonna change
its approach. Right, And maybe some of that is the
influence of Rabel, Ryan Cowden or even Stretch Right, but
he came out and said things that we've talked about
and fans have talked about, and we were like, they
did this wrong. He came out and I did this wrong,
And you don't see that often.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, in terms of the thoroughness and the free agency class,
I do think that that's an area that Ryan Cowden
is going to be involved in and is here for,
is to add another guy that basically has a general
manager resume and that can come in and be able
to evaluate pro talent and be able to help put
together those types of scouting reports and evaluations and things

(19:24):
like that. So I thought that was very interesting. The
Jalen Polk line, I thought was also fascinating from a
team building roster building perspective with Batman one, which is yeah, yeah,
but that's what we get into a lot in this
show in terms of the roster building, right, And I
asked him a follow up about it in our interview
about sort of the the old cliche and football of

(19:46):
you address needs in free agency and you draft best
player available, and when you get to the draft, and
the takeaway that I had from the Jalen Polk statement,
which was we probably put too much on his plate
too early was they didn't go out in free agency
or in the veteran market and add a high enough
talent to starting caliber receiver that they didn't have to

(20:09):
throw Jalen Polk right into the into the fire as
a second round pick. This is not Marvin Harrison junior, right,
This wasn't a top five, top ten talent in this draft.
This was a second round pick and a cluster of
wide receivers and they basically, you know, into his Dark
Knight analogy, it kind of expected him to be the hero, right,
to come in and save the day. When you look

(20:31):
across the board at their their approach last offseason from
the draft, free agency to the draft, you could say
that at quarterback that Drake may had to be the hero.
You could say that at wide receiver that Jalen Polk
had to be the hero. And you could say that
about left tackle with Kayden Wallace. Like they kind of
left it all up to the draft, and I think
they definitely recognized so they recognize it, but like you said,
you have to go out there and do it.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
I remember talking about this last year. We were doing
the whole draft and develop thing right with the Packers,
and it was that works really well. Like you can
do that over time, because if you've been doing it
for long enough, you build up this foundation and you
have a security blanket you can go from there. You
can't really start from scratch with draft and develop. You
need to use free agency to create a base. Get

(21:15):
that floor, get those first guys in so you can
develop behind them, and then ideally from there if you
don't want to be big players in free agency, or
you just want to rely more on the draft, which
by the way, is what most teams do is rely
primarily on the draft. Now it's okay, Well, the guys
we drafted and developed five years ago were developed and
they're now up top, and we're gonna bring guys in
behind them. We're gonna bring guys in behind them, and

(21:35):
you create the pipeline. But it has to the pipe
has to sit on something. Yeah, and there was no
base for it to sit on last year. And you know,
we've made the comp and I've heard other people this
week make the comp when I've asked about what would
you know a realistic successful offseason be for the Patriots
not they signed the top seven free agents, right, realistic?
And I've had you know, more than half of the

(21:56):
people have responded with some form of you look at
what Washington did right where they signed seven to ten
what somebody called them, I think nuts and bolts free agents.
These guys weren't superstars, but they were keeping everything together right.
They were foundational. They were stabilizing presence guys, quality starters,
quality solid players. Not superstars, but those kind of guys

(22:18):
that seems to be especially in this class where there
aren't those superstars, and the free agent class keeps shrinking
every day. We're here with T Higgins and Ronnie Stanley
and and those guys expected to go back to their teams.
John Schneider laughed yesterday when asked about DK Metcalf. So
that hurt me a little bit, But like, that's what
the Patriot's gonna have to do. It's gonna have to

(22:39):
be meat and potatoes. Get that floor set, and then
you hope that you develop guys and elevate them where
you know they're your leaders in two or three years,
and now you're trying to draft guys to fill in
the pieces around them.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah. I look, we all kind of bring up the
Washington comp a lot, and I get that it's probably
a little bit of a broken record, but you just
look at what they were able to do and bring
in six, eight, ten, just quality NFL veterans. Again, we're
not talking about future Hall of Famers all pro level players.
That'd be great if they could land all one of

(23:11):
those T. Higgins type or whatever, but we're just talking
about quality NFL players that way. There, when we get
into the draft, if a drafted tackle on Day two,
it's not they're not expecting that tackle to be the
starting left tackle on day one of the season. You
know they have a Cam Robinson or an all Rector

(23:33):
Baun exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
I you want your second round pick to be an
impact player. You can't have a repeat of Jalen Polk.
But the only guy I talk about this sometimes where
there's year one starters, right, and there's Day one starters,
and that's different. You're the only guy that you you
really are banking on being a Day one starter as

(23:56):
your first round pick, especially picking as high as they
are this year, right, Day two guy should be a
year one starter. He should be a key contributor by
the end of the year. But you usually want to
have a little wigger room with those Day two guys, right,
and then Day three guys are project players, but they
need to do more. It shouldn't be the rookie class
supporting the free agents, or it shouldn't be Yeah, it

(24:18):
shouldn't be the rookie class supporting the free agents. It
should be the free agent supporting the rookie class.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I think, yeah, you got that.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
I think right.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I think he got it all right. The other couple
things that stood out to me, and then obviously you
can add on if there's things that I missed from
Elliott Woolf. I think the other big topic and discussion
is what the heck is gonna happen in the top
three of this draft, because last year, not only did
it feel like it was, it made as much as

(24:47):
we might have talked about Marvin Harrison Junior and other
options for the Patriots at three overall. Last year, Let's
face it, we did that because we had a show
to do today and there was time to film, right,
That's why we did it. If we really got down
to brass tacks, that made more all. Drake may or
a quarterback there, whether it was May or Daniels, was
kind of always going to be the pick.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
I remember JJ McCarthy days.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
It was I was kind of always going to be
the pick in my opinion, looking back, we're not taking
a quarterback.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
So this year they took the right one, which is good.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Not only is there uncertainty about the top three and
who's going to go ahead of them on the board,
there's also not a lot of consensus about who they
should actually take it for. So this is a completely different,
open ended type of year.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think one of those fuels the other right, because
you still have groups of people and I'm not even
talking like just regular fans. I see people in the
media still putting Abdual Carter at four, still putting Travis
Hunter at four. Hunter maybe a little bit, we can talk.
Carter's not getting a four. I know he gets there
in a PFF simulators. Sometimes he's not getting the four.

(25:54):
So like this, this is what I this is. That's
why I think there there's kind of debate because when
you put those aside, when you put Carter and Hunter aside,
which unfortunately I think we need to do. This is
not me saying they shouldn't draft them. They're good players,
but if you put those two a side, it's campbellin Graham,
and there's that Ted McMillan camp. He's gonna test this week.

(26:17):
It seems like like.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
This few guys. I mean, we'll see when he talks,
I guess, but one of the few guys. Just to
sidetrack real quick, there's a lot of guys not testing
that are in the top ten.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Which I guess right now, especially in this class.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Whether it's injury related. You know, Abdua Carter is still
getting over an injury from the College Football Playoff. It
sounds like Mikel Williams might be in the same boat.
Jalen Walker today said that he's gonna hold off until
his pro day. So a lot of these guys are
not testing.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
But when it comes to McMillan as again, as of
right now, what he is it like three thirty. Yeah,
on Wednesday he is. That's the one guy I thought
wouldn't test because he's not he doesn't win with athleticism. Yeah,
that's not a Krent trade and that's all the combine it.
Unless he thinks he's gonna go out there and run
routes that make scouts cry, which maybe he will, maybe

(27:07):
they're that crisp, but he like it's it's gonna make
or break when when he works out right, because either
gonna run like a four four five and we're all
gonna be okay. Hello, And Mike Vrabel yesterday talked about
contested catch when he mentioned receivers first thing he mentioned
contested catch, or he's gonna run like a four to
seven and we're gonna start calling him a tight end.

(27:29):
So the debate really, to me, I actually think there
is some clarity to go back to the original point
when you take the Carter and Hunter part out of it,
which realistically we probably should be doing. It's Campbell and Graham.
That's the debate. We know they want to go trenches.
We know they need to go trenches. You probably you
have what is the big the best player at the

(27:51):
biggest need on the board, and you have the best
player at a non premium position on the board. And
I I think that's really the debate. Now it gets
really crazy, Evan and I don't know if we'll see
this gets really crazy. Like I said, we shouldn't earmark
neither of those guys to fall right, we're pushing those
guys in the top two, but we're also kind of

(28:13):
penciling in a quarterback for that third spot. Who's the
third pick? If there's no quarterback in the top three,
Is there a chance they don't get to choose between
Campbell and Graham?

Speaker 2 (28:25):
No, I don't think so. I hear what you're saying
in terms of like going through scenarios.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
But I'm saying like, that's more like it's more likely
to me at this point. And I know I'm going
back on what I said a couple of weeks ago,
and I'll probably go back on it again in two
weeks because that's how weird this quarterback class is. Yeah,
right now, I still think there's one. I still think
it's gonna be exactly one quarterback in the top three.
But if i'd ask you, is it more likely to
go in the top three or it's more likely none

(28:49):
go in the top three?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Which would you pick two or none?

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
I guess none, but.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I go no, That's what I'm saying. But I think
it's gonna be one. So the Browns. All the reporting
here right now is that the Browns are are zeroing
in on quarterbacks at two and at three.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
The Giants. The wild card is Matthew Stafford, in my opinion,
with the Giants.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Who apparently was hanging out with Tom Brady.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Right. So if the Giants Matthew Stafford, then that obviously
takes them out of the quarterbacks run. If the Giants
don't and the Raiders land Matthew Stafford behind them, then
that takes the Raiders out and makes the Giants probably
even more willing to take a quarterback there when you

(29:31):
look at you know, to go kind of in order
here of what you were saying. When it comes to
Ted McMillan, I don't think that there's a lot of buzz,
especially relative to the last couple of years here in
Indy with the combine about this wide receiver class. I
feel like this is as subdued of reactions as I've

(29:54):
ever seen about who do you like in this receiver class?
You know, who excites you in this class? I do
think that if Luther Burden didn't have the season he
had last year, Thank you, Brady Cooked, and then he
would be a more exciting prospect of people. But for
what I have, you know, put together here, there's just
not a lot of people that are they light up

(30:16):
when you start talking about the wide receiver class.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
I feel like every day we've been here. The wide
receiver class has gotten worse in terms of what I'm hearing.
Like I talked to somebody today actually liked McMillan, actually
really did, but said he had no other receivers graded
in the first two rounds. Yeah, like he's saying, because
I asked him about it, Buca, Golden, and Burton. Yeah,

(30:40):
And I said, like, you know, who do you like
from that group? He was like, you know, honestly, I
have them all greatest third round picks. So it's people
are really doom and gloom to the point where I've
kind of been wondering, not for the Patriots, but you know,
the league as a whole. This draft is, meanwhile, so
deep at tight end. Are there gonna be teams that
look at this and just when you pass Catcher gonna

(31:00):
take a tight end. I think that that's gonna be
the thought process for at least some teams that need
a wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
It's definitely possible. I just look at this entire receiver
class and I think everybody has their question mark, which
is what makes people pause. You know, obviously Ted McMillan
is explosiveness speed, downfield speed, top end speed especially, I
think Ted McMillan. When he gets going, can build up
speed to a decent level, but he's just not an

(31:28):
instant accelerator and he's not going to run through defenses
because of that. He's not going to win against press
on the outside consistently over the top because of that.
Then you get into burden. Who's got this. Everybody's just
trying to figure out what happened last year? Was it?
Brady Cook? I think both of us kind of feel
like that had a lot to do with it.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I'll tell you it reminds me of Jordan Addison.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, his this some of the I don't want to
I guess antics on the sideline, like I don't he.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Got I would call it. He got visibly disengaged at times.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, it taken himself out of games.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
I think I saw. I think Zeroline had in his
NFL dot Com scouting report talks about like he got
bored with the offense.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, let me see. I think that was so uh
A Mecha Abuka is a really solid, well rounded wide receiver,
can block, has great hands, uh, knows how to run
rouse understand spacing and zone concepts and things like that.
But he's not a dynamic round runner. He doesn't have
great speed, he's not a great separator. You know. The

(32:28):
comp that I kind of settled in on with him,
I kind of see some Jackson Smith and Jigba there. Yeah,
but if I also kind of see a little bit
of like you know, prene issues Juju Smith Schuster, Right,
that's just that kind of solid, well rounded guy. But
that's not a guy that you take in the top
ten or top twenty and expect to change the dynamic
of your offense. And then with with Matthew Golden, you're

(32:53):
really banking on his college football playoff run being the
player that he's going to be for the rest of
his career. Like that, that's what you're thinking, is that
those four games where he went off from the championship
with SEC championship, right, I forget what Yeah, well he
was he was good before that too, just wasn't as consistent, right,
So they asked the championship done stringing games together on

(33:14):
is I think one hundred and thirty yards per game
for him in those games and he was just off,
you know, insane production.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
By the way, zerline on Luther Burden, I haven't here
and I'm just reading part of it here he takes
snaps off in short circuits routes if he's not the
primary option, but can separate and succeed on all three
levels when it's his time. And then he has a
quote it was from an NFC scout. I think he
got bored with that offense. His playing styles like Jerry Judy,
but with Alman Ross, Saint Brown's hands and toughness.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Interesting comps. Yeah, I uh, that's definitely what I hear
a lot about here. You know in India about this
wide receiver class is that there's just everybody's got a
flaw and everybody's got some concerns about this class. So,
just talking out Wolf again, I asked him, you know,
is there a coverage dictating receiver? Is that number one

(34:05):
wide receiver for you guys? Uh in this draft? And
he was kind of lukewarm about it. And that's sort
of the reaction and I get that. Yeah, And so
if it's not T Higgins, you know, where did the
Patriots turn? I think is an interesting question. Uh, what
was the other thing that you said? I had a
thought on that. I don't know if I said a
bunch of things. And right, just we're we're rolling here

(34:26):
is what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'll say, to your point, where do the Patriots turn
at receiver? I'm okay if they don't add that guy
this offseason. And I know nobody wants to hear it, right,
but they were never gonna get this whole thing built
up all the way in one off season. It's too much,
too much to do. Just realistically, they weren't gonna get
it done. It's I would rather them instead of throwing

(34:49):
good money after bad and being like, all right, T
Higgins isn't here, Chris or is a bit Stefan Diggs
the best receiver available. Yeah, he's thirty one coming off
a knee, but we need to get the best receiver available,
because that's what we wanted to do coming in. Just
get the best receiver and like overpay and commit yourself
long term to Stephan Diggs. Rather than doing that, I
would rather see them Neither of these are ideal, but

(35:10):
I'd rather see them looking at it and say, the
receiver he wants not in free agency, the receiver he
wants not in the draft. Schneider's laughing when people are
asking about DK Metcalf. Let's just hammer the trenches. Yeah,
let's build up this offensive line, defensive line, linebackers, let's
add another corner, let's get a safety. Right, and now
next year, say they have eight nine boxes to check them,

(35:31):
pulling those numbers out of thinner right, all right, we
got seven of those checked. Now we can go all
in next year. And whether it's giving up a bunch
of picks for wide receiver who's available via trade, or
flying up the boards to get one of these receivers
and what projects to be a much better wide receiver draft.
Now you can do that because all these other issues

(35:51):
were taken care of. It's gonna be frustrating watching again.
And they still should do something. Can you get a
guy like Darius Slayton or Chris Godwin on maybe a
one year deal? Right? Or maybe there's somebody who you
don't love the floor in the third round, but you
feel good about the ceiling, you feel good about Todd
down and coaching him, and you're like, we'll take the
shot here, but not burning a premium asset on a

(36:15):
position when you know, all right, we'll we'll just spend
like crazy eat this next year when we have more options.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
I hear, I agree with a lot of what you said.
Let me throw this one scenario just to just to facilitate.
As Felger likes to say, right driving the bus, would
you be out on thinging a little bit outside the
box that wide received? Hate this? Am I and taking
a risk on a veteran guy. And I have a

(36:40):
couple of examples who come with some concerns. I'm gonna
hate this, but are in that pre agent year and
then if it works out, maybe you pay them. And
you don't pay him right away. I mean, who's the
player like Chris Alave No, Christian Watson with Green Bay?
Oh what am I giving up for Watson? Second round

(37:02):
pick this year? Maybe something else? No?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
You think you do Barmore for Watson?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
No, not with the blood clots stuff.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's true. Not Barber, not Barmore, gotsha No, not straight up.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
But you'd have to get.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
More like godshot and a fourth for Watson.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think he'd have to take more than that.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
All right?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Then?

Speaker 1 (37:17):
No, I'm out on Watson. Jamo, Yeah, yeah, I take
a shot on jameson Williams. I don't know how well
he fits in McDaniel's old offense. Maybe if they're changing things,
like he's a better fit for if they're gonna bring
in some of the stuff Rabel did and some of
the stuff Todd Downing. Did you know I'm a big
Jameson Williams fan. I would take a shot on Jameson Williams.
You could sell me on that. We're talking like thirty

(37:39):
eight for Jamison Williams. Sure, if you get your tackle
and free agency are at four, Yeah, I would do that.
The reason why I bring that up is a because
that the listeners. Is there anybody else?

Speaker 2 (37:49):
There was one more? I'll look it up in a second.
The reason why I bring that up is because we
talk so much about t Higgins, We talked so much
about Ted McMillan, and just realistically, it just doesn't feel
like that's gonna be right for the Patriots with Ted
at four.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Overall, it just seems high, I think everybody, and not
just for the Patriots for anything, right exactly, It just
seems high for the player right now. You know, some
people have him as low as like twenty and then
you know twenty five.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
You know that range, like.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
He's a fringe top ten player in this draft.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Where like Zay Flowers and JSN and Addison and those
guys went a couple of years ago. I think he's
better than that, yep, to be fair, but regardless, it's.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Weird because he's so good. He really is elite at
a lot of things. Yeah, but it's just not athleticism.
And that's weird because in the last five ten years, like,
there's a lot of wide receivers who are just good
by being athletes and maybe aren't the most technically skilled receivers.
And that's kind of the way the league is gone.

(38:48):
So we're so used to looking at those guys. As
the example, you look at a guy like Tyreek Hill, who, like,
I don't know, is Tyreek Hill exactly like teach Tape
for a wide receiver the way he goes about it,
nor just but he's so dominant athletically, and that's been
the mold. That's all right, I'm gonna find a great
athlete and teach him how to play receiver. And now

(39:10):
here comes Ted McMillan, who's the totally antithesis of that,
who is very polished, who is very physically dominant, but
he's just not that top tier athlete that we're used
to these top receivers being.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Okay, I'll give you the last name, yep, George Pickens. No,
see Pickens is those are the four that I and
there's a lot more actually that are in this pre
agency class. It's a pretty good I always say, yeah,
it's not gonna it's a year before they're unrestricted. It's
this twenty two class, right, Yeah, that none of those
guys are actually gonna hit full. Alex Pearce that class too, right,

(39:47):
Alex Pierce, he might be you know DK you know
is on this list.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
He wasn't in that class now. But because of the
way Pickens to me is like he'll have like a
one hundred yards nine hundred yards in a season, and
five hundred of them will come in three games. Those
guys bug me like you need he's not reliable.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
You don't like that when he's on.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Well, ironically it's what Ted McMillan was last year. Yeah,
when he's on, he's on, but he's not reliable. I agree,
he's not reliable. But my point of bringing this group up,
they all have different like supercharged uh what's his name
from the Bills on the Jaguars now gave Davis George
Pickens just super charge game. Davis Supercharged gave Davis, I

(40:32):
don't those guys don't do it for me. That's the
number two. They're great, not as number one.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
So the reason why I bring those guys up, though,
is that there's hurdles for the Patriots at wide receiver
to make this happen. Not necessarily make it happen this offseason,
but just to take a swing. You know, where they
are in the draft, like, just doesn't make a lot
of sense at four overall in this class. The fact
that for the top flight, top of the market guys

(40:55):
T Higgins for example, if he does shake free, we
know how with Calvin Ridley and Brandon Nayuk right like,
they're not a draw right now for that player.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Oi Wolf did say they are more of a draw now,
we'll see.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I'll believe it.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
When he said Drake may is gonna be a significant
part of the pitch.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I buy that.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Who knows what he really wanted, but the reporting was
he didn't come here because he didn't know what the
quarterback situation was.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Sure, but at the end of the day, they're still
a notch below being like a top flight Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
So you look at these receivers, but sorry. Let me
just I don't think it's gonna be like AYUK where
they offer the most money and still don't get them.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
I just don't know that yet. Like I have to
see it to believe it, you know, like I I
don't know where.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
We think that they offer like four or five million
dollars a year to the next closest team. A receiver
would say, no, different positions might be different.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
It depends on who the other teams are.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
T Higgins gonna take a discount to go? I mean
who I get who has that kind of money to spend.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Everybody's got money to spend.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
There's a lot of caps space around the league. But
my point being is that that that group did I
do named. You know, they all have sort of you know,
a lava aid, you know who knows right, you know,
with the injuries. Jameson Williams has was hurt to come
into the league and has kind He's been good in flashes,
but hasn't been consistently great. Uh. Pickens is his own thing,

(42:15):
right with the attitude stuff and everything. Those are maybe
the types of high ceiling swings, you know, those dart
throws that they might need to throw at it. Don't
commit the money right away, right like you don't don't
sign them to that monster extension right away and make
them prove it a little bit. Right if it doesn't

(42:35):
work out their free agents at the end of the year.
You have some control there with the franchise tags or
whatever the case may be. And you you have an
upside player there in that room. You know, you have
a guy that has a real ceiling to him in
that room. I just I'm just saying as an unorthodox,
think outside the box approach because of the way that
this class ever received.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
You've been sell me on jameson Williams because one like
he had the gambling thing, and I think it was
tough to come back from that, but you hope that's
in his past, right, you do your due diligence on there.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
But I actually forgot about that. I was just thinking
about the play, like.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
When he stays he's inconsistent and different way that Pickens
is inconsistent. Yeah, he'll put together like consecutive of good
games and he gets hurt and then it takes him
a minute to get going again. And then he gets
hurt and it takes a minute to get going again, right,
but if you feel like you can keep him healthy,
he's a good player. The other thing they need above
all else, they need speed. They need speed on the
offensive side of the ball. And can I call Jamison

(43:32):
Williams the top five fastest receiver in the league?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, top ten. I'm comfortable. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
He's not Tyreek Hill, but he's up there.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah. So all right, that's the receiver take YEP of
the week for you. I just want to wrap up
Elliott Wolf here. Is there anything else that stood out
from Elliott Wolf that we haven't mentioned here yet?

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I mean we kind of talked about the the Jalen
Polk stuff. Yeah, I just to apply that forward, Like
all right, cause this how much do I talk about
this Drafting the right players only half the battle. You
got to develop them. And that's case in point. They
didn't put the player in a position to succeed. They
overwhelmed them. Ellie Wolton literally said, we stunted his growth,
use that exact phrase. So it sucks that happened, obviously,

(44:23):
but like, now you know what that looks like. Now
you know what the consequences are. They need to be
much more cognizant when they draft these guys, and even
guys they're already drafted, they didn't at least entirely stunt
Drake May's growth last year, but like they need to
be aware of And I guess it goes back to
what we talked about off the top about not putting
too much on the rookies. But like, you can't ask

(44:45):
these guys to save your franchise day one. You gotta
have a development plan for these players. You gotta be
able to move them along in a way that makes
sense or you're gonna have more busts. Yeah, so I
thought that was it goes back to we talked about
the beginning. It's this self awareness from Wolf I thought was.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Encouraging. I guess would be the word. Yeah, that's totally fair.
All right, let's uh, let's talk a little bit about
yesterday with with Mike Rabel as well. And uh, I
think one of the bigger questions too that we have
to tackle. And I hate talking about this kind of stuff.
I'm not gonna lie to you, but the final say
conversation is going to be a conversation on your station
and pieces like that, and uh uh, just knowing Elliot

(45:25):
Wolf's background with the Green Bay Packers and with his
father and all that kind of stuff. Uh. Typically speaking,
that relationship between coach and general manager is the coach says,
these are the types of players I need, you know,
I need. I need a receiver that does X y Z.
I need a one tech nose tackle that can shoot gaps.

(45:47):
I need this, I need that, And the general manager's
job is now to go to the grocery store and
go shopping for that. I don't think. My my point
being here is even though you might say an act.
We had Mike Greece on our Draft countdown podcast that
we're doing here at the Combine, and he said that

(46:09):
he said that you know from his sources that it's
in Elliot Wolf's contract that he has final say on
the roster. So that was a contract that was signed yesterday.
And again this is reporting. Just this just happened, oh
yesterday last year.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, those are two very different stories. They did that
yesterday like that, okay, last year. That makes a lot
of sense.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
So when he when he signed his contract last year
and they gave him the promotion and all that stuff,
it's been a long so when he signed that last year,
that was the wording Ese's sourcing. That was the wording
in the contract. So unless something changed drastically, then by

(46:54):
the letter of the law, that's how it would go.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Except I would say things did change drastically there's a
new coach.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Well, I'm talking about unless they rewrote a concert. But
here's the thing about final say.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
We don't talk about final say in the sense of
a dictator, right, it's more and different organizational structure differently,
but final say, especially in the collaborative approach they talked about,
and Frable and Wolf have both used the term collaboration
here last couple of days. That's not going anywhere. It's
more Okay, three of us want this guy, three of

(47:26):
us want that guy who's the tiebreaker, Right, it's the tiebreaker,
not the overseer. Yeah, if you have Mike Vrabel and
Ryan Cowden and you have Elliott Wolf, and two of
those guys come from the same background in tennessee things
the same way, how often do you need a tiebreaker?

Speaker 2 (47:44):
I guess it's a good question, and there's a lot
of ambiguity here, right, But I what I get back to,
and that I'm not trying to pour water on the
cold water on it right. But what I really do
like is that it's a situation where Rabel is the

(48:04):
one that's dictating the terms of their personnel. Right, this
is the kind of guys we need, This is the
kind of players I need, This is the type of
skill sets that we're looking for. And then Elliot Wolf
is going to go into the talent pool. He's going
to make a list of you know, here's the five, ten,
fifteen guys. Rabel and the coaching staff will watch it

(48:28):
and then it'll come to an agreement of this is
our this is our stack, right, Like, this is our list, right,
and I think that list is going to be let's
call it proof read by Mike Rabel.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
So who's making the final decision there in that process?
Which is the last decision? I would say that it's Rabel.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
In the sense that the ranking of the board might
be his final QC of the board would be Rabel.
And then it's Elliott Wolf's job to go and I
I know, to compile the board and I know some
people hate this word, but like to go find the
value right of like, okay, you know, can we get
this player that that you know where he's going to

(49:10):
go in the draft. Can we get this player at
that number?

Speaker 1 (49:12):
And that's what it needs to change if it's and
this is where the final say thing gets vague, right,
So okay, Elliott Wolf, it's up to him to decide, Okay,
well we can get this player for this much or whatever.
What if Mike Rabel goes to him and says, let's call,
off the top of my head, Jevon Holland, Right, yeah,
we need Javon. Mike Frable says, we need Jon Holland
on this football team for me to have execute the

(49:35):
plan that I want to execute. I need Javon Holland.
Go get me him. Pay over market? Right like there?
Does Li Wolf then go back and it's not really
the value we can get you know, this other safety
for more value? Or does Mike Rabel get to it? Nope,
this is the guy we're paying for, you know, talking
about being aggressive and free agency things like that. That's like,

(49:58):
I guess where it would be where would be interesting?

Speaker 2 (50:00):
I hear what you're saying. I just wonder if there can't.
I think it's easier to come to a consensus than
people realize they can't.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
I think it's that's all. I also think it's more
about so like Ellie Wolf said, he wouldn't force players
on Rabel, right, I think it's more about like he said,
Rabel is going to be the one who kind of
picks the pool right and and does the ring.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I would say that he's the one that narrows it down, right,
Like what Wolf is gonna look at the whole pool,
Rabel is gonna he's gonna give a list to Rabel.
Rabel if it's a defensive player, you know him and
Terrell Williams will watch the tape and say, this is
our guy, this is the guy we prefer, this is
our guy. If we don't get the guy that we prefer,
you know, tears or clusters of players. So like to
hear Javon Holland. Example, Let's say they they go in

(50:45):
on Javon Holland and they offer him a a competitive
market contract, but they just don't land the player. Right, Okay,
you know we cross him off. Who is the next
best freeze guy from Minnesota?

Speaker 1 (50:57):
I forget?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
But yeah, but like right, like that that's the type of.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
But I do wonder if Arabel can say, like, these
are the spots where we're not budget right, budget where
this is where I almost feel like it's to compare it.
You're gonna hate this to compare it to the Major
League Baseball draft. I don't even know if you know
how this works with why nodding. So you have based
on where you're picking, because you're not trading picks, like
everybody has the same picks in each round. Right, So

(51:21):
you're slotted X amount of dollars for the draft because
each slot is worth a certain amount of money.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah, and so what some teams will do.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
It's called drafting overslot or underslot because you hear ahead
of time what players are gonna want for assigning bonus
in each pick. And what teams will do is sometimes
teams will like underslot their first pick and then they
can pay all the rest of the guys more to
ensure they get them, because you don't you don't always
sign all your draft picks. Right. I wonder if there's
spots where Mike Vrabel looks at it and says, you know,
all right, this is what we budgeted for safety. Right,

(51:51):
we can take some money out of the guard budget.
Right right, if you want to go find your value guard,
go find your value guard. Safety is where if you
need a little more money, move other money, put it
to safety. That's we're going like who has who makes
that call? And that to me sounds like Rabel just
based off what he said yesterday.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Yeah. So the other element, and we just talked a
lot about wide receivers, and so I probably should have
segued into this. But the other element with wide receivers
that I still continue to hear from Rabel that that
really stands out to me is catch radius, contested catchability.
And I think when people hear contested catchability they think
it just jump balls. It's not just it's finishing in traffic.

(52:33):
It's finishing in tight covering, catching through contact. Right, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
It can be a thing where like that the corner
is wearing you on your back, right, all right, hands
to yourself, all right, grow it here.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
And and so you hear that a lot. He mentioned
again that he doesn't want Drake May to have to
be pinpoint accurate on every single throw. He wants to
have some accuracy erasers at the wide receiver position. The
player that he continues to describe as a J Brown.
He does every single time he describes a wide receiver.

(53:05):
He describes AJ.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Brown really does. Yeah, So obviously a J. Brown is
a J Brown top five receiver in the league.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Like he said, if you find one walking down the street,
let me know, right, you know, like they don't grow
on trees.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
I'm looking, Mike, I'm looking. I'm watching it. Then I
don't think you're here yet.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
But if you had to think of the archetype or
the mold of the type of receiver that Mike Rabel
continues to say he wants, it's a J. Brown, which
is obviously a good one to pick. Now to piggyback
off of that, he mentions AJ Brown, and he also

(53:39):
mentioned that typically you need to draft that player that
that player we all know it's not gonna come available
in free agency. Now that being said, he's not a J.
Brown after the catch, he doesn't move like AJ Brown.
But in terms of catch radius, accuracy, erasing contested catchability,
I mean, that's also T Higgins, right, So like I

(54:01):
would imagine that they would have a ton of interest
in T.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Well, that's also Tem McMillan. It's also Teed McMillan, who
has drawn some comps to I've seen like Drake London, right,
is the big one and that sort of receivers. So,
like I did perk up when I heard him say
contested catches. Tem McMillan, we'll be talking more about him
at four. Yeah, I don't know about that, but like, right,
so Trey Harris maybe is the guy who should talk

(54:26):
more about if that's what they're gonna prioritize.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
I just find it interesting. And I'm sure there's you know,
there's a list, like it's not I'm sure his only
prerequisite for drafting or signing a receiver is in contested catchability.
I'm sure there's other things on that list, but it's
not like speed or separation or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
That's the key. And I agree into an extent. But
you know what, because.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
If you just look at the stats and look at
the metrics, Yeah, so much of the of the targets
in the NFL are contested because of there's great cover
players like corners are really good. So in the league,
you're not gonna get to get all these wide open
gaps and zone coverages, and you're gonna see a lot
more man to man and you're gonna be in crowds
a lot more because that's the that's the talent level

(55:12):
that's on the field. So I think people here can
test the catches. They were all, oh, no, Nikhil Harry,
you know, something like that. But I do think that
you have to look at it and say, you know,
that's a lot of the targets in the league.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
And that kind of player stylistically is a really good
fit with Drake May. Yeah, like when you talk about
helping the quarterback, it's gonna allow you to maximize his
arm strength because he can test parts of the field
where you know, even if you're a great receiver, there's
just certain parts of the field you know you're gonna
get one on one coverage, you're not gonna have help,
you're not gonna have double whatever. And now it's all right,

(55:45):
maybe he's not wide open, but Drake May can access
those parts of the field. Most quarterbacks can't, and you
can trust the receiver even if he's not wide open,
to make a play on the football.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
All right, So that was wide receivers were the frable. Yeah,
it was there anything else I missed?

Speaker 1 (55:57):
There's a bunch, but vrabel I just loved the tone
of I like they didn't put a timeline when asked
about the rebuild. But said sort of in the same answer.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
I want to win.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Everybody wants to win. We're here to win, right, So
don't put a timeline on it because you don't know
what's gonna happen. But there is urgency, right. And I
also like the way he laid it out. He gave
kind of the classic we want to win our division,
we want to host playoff games, right, that sort of thing.
But they're two three years away from that. He added
one other thing. Somebody asked him at the very end
because he mentioned, you know, so, oh, you mentioned winning

(56:32):
the division, So how do you catch the bills? Like,
what do you do? I thought he gave a great
first step. He said, we need to win our home games.
We need to make sure Let's Stadium a tough place
to play. Patriots are seven and seventeen in the last
three years in home.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, they haven't been good enough home, they haven't been
good enough anywhere.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
No, But like the first step is the gimmes, you
gotta win at home. Yeah, you got how many games
are like well, this just should win game that they don't. Right,
Just win the should wins, and then you can get
to the mit wins, and and then you can get
to like the real tough ones. But most games at
home are should win games essentially. You look at their
home schedule this year, not difficult, not typical. They should

(57:11):
be over five hundred at home. Do they finish over
five hundred for the season.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
We've got a long way to go in this offseason,
but they should be over five hundred at home. And
I loved it Vrabel said that because I think that's
something fans feel, Like Chillette Stadium, It's never gonna be
what it was Brady and Bill and you drive in
on a Sunday night and you see the stadium come
up over the trees and all that, and you know,
Peyton Manning and other guys have told that story about
what it was like driving up.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
But very wax poetic of you.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
You've never heard like Peyton or I think it was
Ray Lewis talk about that like it just comes out
of nowhere. You're in like a neighborhood and then Boom
Stadium and it's like dark and five about lambeau Field,
I've heard about you too, But like I digress, winning
at home is a really good first step, like as
a year one goal, right, winning the division this year.
Be great, Be great, that's a big step. Finishing over

(58:00):
five hundred a home is like a solid realistic goal
in year one for Mike Rabel. I think, okay, so
a couple more things from Rail. I just pulled up
what I wrote yesterday so that we can get to
everything here. The other big sort of tidbit nugget right
off the top is that he is.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Planning on having Terrell Williams call the defense. So Terrell Williams,
Patriots defensive coordinator, He's going to call plays on the
defensive side of the ball. So Vrabel as expected, I
would say, going into that CEO head coaching style. Now,
I still think that he's gonna have a lot of
input on the defense, and especially with Josh McDaniels as

(58:37):
the offensive coordinator, where somebody as experienced as Josh running
the offense, I still think that he can kind of
pass that to him and focused on defense with Terrell Williams.
But it's another it's that style again, right where they're
gonna have an overseer, a CEO head coach in theory,

(58:57):
if you have a head coach, and I think this
is sort of where it missed the mark. And then
in terms of style with Gerrod Mayo, if you have
a head coach that can that can touch every aspect
of the team like Bill could and could really impact
every aspect of the team and have knowledge and have
uh you know, I think rabels that he feels like
he has a fundamental or a tip that he can
give to every single position group on the roster when

(59:20):
and you hear stories about that, yeah, from him in terms.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Of the offensive line last year in Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
So when you have a coach like that, uh, then
that can be a really beneficial way to go about things.
But I would just what is your reaction to to
Terrell Williams calling to Spens a first time play caller.
I should mention that, sure, So I mean the fact that.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
It doesn't worry me because I think if if it
is too big for him, Mike Vrabel's right there to
step in, And I don't think Mike Vrabel would be
afraid of stepping in if he needs to. Not to
say that, I think he's gonna give Terrell Williams a
short leash. I think he's gonna let him learn. But
if it becomes clear that he's not the answer, I
could see Vrabel stepping in. I also just thought it
was interesting the way Rabel talked about it, because he said, like, yeah,
he's gonna call place. He's the defensive coordinator. He's coached

(01:00:02):
aggressive defensive lineman. I believe he said that in order.
It's like, Okay, coaching defensive lineman to be aggressive and
calling plays are two different things. But it's like, or
is this defense? Does that mean that the defensive style
is gonna be catered towards and built around aggressive offensive lineman?
And now we add the Devon Godshaw news here twenty
four hours later when I say offensive.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
It's been a long week. Yeah, uh James.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Devon god twenty four hours later, and it's like, okay,
So I think, and you see this all that, you
see this with offensive coordinators covering different backgrounds defensive coordinators, like,
you're gonna become an offensive coordinator. But if you started
as quarterbacks coach, your quarterbacks guy, start as a tight
ends coach, you're a tight ends guy, right, Start as
a linebackers coach your linebackers guy. I don't think Troll
William is gonna be an exception. That's kind of the

(01:00:44):
vibe by gott was He's gonna put his guys in
position to be the stars of this defense. They are going.
That doesn't mean Christian Zalz is going anywhere because he's
a star, but they are gonna build this around. We're
gonna get a bunch of studs up front and let
them loose, and we're gonna call it on those eyes
being able to be effective play in and play out.
Will they get to the full extent of that this year,

(01:01:06):
I don't know, probably need two offseasons to put that
thing together, but that's kind of it was another sign
that that's what the defense is going to be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Stylistically, Yeah, I just think, you know, in terms of
the scheme and things like that. Defensively, the one hesitation
I have with a guy like Terrell Williams calling plays
is that his background is basically solely in defensive line.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Right. Well, he was an assistant head coach, Andy was
a run game coordinator.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Yeah, but he has coached the front seven the defensive
line most of his career. So what you do worry
a little bit about is how well does he know
the back end and how well does he know marrying
coverage and rush and all those different types of things.
It's one thing to be able to draw pressure, right
like that, that's great, Like it's a big part of
football nowadays, simulated pressure as creepers, all that good stuff.

(01:01:56):
But how does he marry the back end in the
front end so that it all fits together and makes
sense and our coverages are matching up with our rushes
and we're not leaving ourselves schematically broken in that sense
when it comes to scheme and play calling. That I'm
not saying that I'm panicking about it, but that's what
I'll be watching early on in the season is how

(01:02:18):
well he kind of marries those two things together. Because vastly,
vastly different experience levels in the NFL, but a lot
of young defensive line coaches like a DeMarcus Covington that
turn into play callers struggle with that early on and
as play callers, right And you know, maybe Trell Williams
has done more play calling than I know of. You know,

(01:02:38):
I don't believe he's called plays at least at any
sort of consistent significant amount in the NFL. But maybe
that that I'm mistaken on that last thing here on
on VRABEL And then we have tons of emails coming
in and all that good stuff. When he was with
us yesterday here at the table, I asked them about

(01:03:00):
the the innovations and the scheme tweaks on offense for
the Patriots, and we talked a little bit about Drake
May and and mobile quarterbacks and sort of his stance
on running quarterbacks. And he said point blank that May
needs to prove that he can stay healthy. And he's
made a big deal about sliding and all that kind
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Posted or he talked about the Red Sox.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
The slip and slide, and he said that, you know,
they have to be cognizant of the volume of making
him the primary ball carrier, so not like holding the
backside or you know, just as a threat to run,
but actually being the primary ball carrier. But that said,
he said, they'll be design quarterback runs, they'll be moving
pockets like, they will amplify Drake May's mobility. They will

(01:03:47):
coach ways for his second reaction in his off script
playmaking to take hold and be impactful. So they are
not they're not harnessing it like they are harnessing it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
They're they're not afraid of it. Yeah, they're not holding
him back I do think, and I've talked to this
for it. I think there's a tipping point there. I
don't even go too far in that direction because now
you're reckless. So it'll be interesting to see what the
balance is. But I even said last year, like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
A thin line.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
They weren't even close to getting the line, Like they
had so much room to even get up near the
line in terms of running him too much. So we'll see.
That'll be interesting to watch, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
I think that does it on the on the vrabel
and on Elliott Wolf. So we'll take some of these emails.
We'll talk some prospects and stuff like that for the
second hour. But before we get into it, I got
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take a half days in the combine.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
I could use one of those comfortable like couches.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
A lot harder to do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Ready to put my.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Feet up, A lot of what is right? Like we
had to You know you do you probably need it
telling me playing act.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
I'm cleanly shaved for the first time, for which I
didn't want to do. My trimmer broke and now everybody's
seeing what was under there, and yeah I needed the steps.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Oh my goodness. All right. So some of these emails
here that we can get into. I wanted to start
here with Nick emailed in about Andrew Berry, the Browns
general manager, made some made some waves yesterday when he
said that they view Cleveland I've used Travis Hunter as

(01:06:25):
a wide receiver, and you know, he's kind of surprised,
I guess, and we've sort of been talking about this
a little bit that it's not more consensus given the
positional value. What did you think of Berry saying that,
because I think he's kind of the first top decision
maker to just come out and say I prefer him
as a wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
So, first off, combine moment for me talking about the
son a podcast by my table on Radio Row yesterday
went with Andrew Callahan. As I'm saying it, andrews eys
get kind of wide and I'm like, you know it
was Barry that said that, right. He goes, yeah, it
was just right behind you while you were saying it
that was fun. Doesn't surprise me because I think for
the Browns that makes sense. The they had like one
of the few positions that they're kind of set with

(01:07:03):
this corner they've Denzel Ward knew some. They got a
couple of good corners over there. They don't really have
a ton at receiver beyond Judy, so they need a
receiver more. He probably is a better fit for the
Browns at receiver. That makes sense. But if they're gauging
it that closely, every time it's doing their every team
is doing their due diligence. If they're gauging at that closely,
is that a sign that he's you know, maybe the Browns.

(01:07:25):
I know he said they might be locked in on quarterback,
but are they considering Travis Hunter. Yeah, they've gotten to
that point of the evaluation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
I think it's great that somebody, you know, because I've
been on the Travis Hunter wide receiver train for a while.
I think it's great to hear that from a general
manager because I do you watch the tape like he's
a dynamic impact wide receiver in my opinion, at the
next level, and they're not a lot of those in
this draft. We just mentioned that, but I think he
can truly be one of those guys that I would

(01:07:53):
put into a similar tier, yeah, as some of the
guys last year, you know, Roma Dune Day, Brian Thomas Junior.
I probably wouldn't put him in the neighbors Marvin Harrison
junior tier, but I have him right in that mix
for you wide receiver four, you know, wide receiver three,
something like that in that draft last year. And it's
interesting that somebody would say that. Now. The tricky part

(01:08:16):
is it's much easier in my opinion, to major in
corner and minor and receiver than he is to major
in receiver and minor in corner. So if you're gonna
play him at wide receiver predominantly and he's gonna major
in playing receiver, like, what's the plan to get him
involved on defense? Or you're just saying we don't need it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
So we've kind of talked about like two minute drills
right obvious past situation late in games, but so much
of playing corner is feeling out the receiver over the
course of the game, and you don't get to do
that if you're only playing at part time. So it
is worth considering that if he's playing corner, he might
just be be playing corner the one I wonder, and

(01:08:54):
I don't know if he would go for this. If
you're gonna play a part time at defense, he playm
at safety, And do you just tell him against certain
teams in certain spots we're gonna push up top because
he can play true centerfield. I think he can play
true single high. He doesn't really do it at Colorado,
but I just look at his athleticism, his instincts is
ball skills. I think it translates if you give enough
time to work on it and practice. Do you just

(01:09:14):
say you can cover the whole field right sideland a
sideline when we get into third and fifteen, when we
get into a two minute drill, when we get up
twenty one teams throwing, we're just gonna throw you back
there on the back end and have you patrol deep,
and then that allows us play ten up front.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
So you're essentially asking him to be like a more
souped up Deron Harmon.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
I was gonna say that, well, I was gonna go
too far. I was gonna say part time ed Reid.
But somewhere somewhere between the two, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
But those are two very far poles. But like Deron,
Harmon is the guy that on third and month he
was gonna play up top. Is Devin to play robber,
Patrick Chunk play in the slot and play tight ends
and things like that, And that's how they kind of
all got to their sweet spots in that defense, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
And when the Patriots, right, I just think if you're
gonna do it part time, because part of playing part
time alsome he's practicing a part time right, Yeah, I
feel like that's an easier role to just sort of
step into and get your individual assignment versus playing corner
where you really have to study, Like you don't you
still to study receivers, but like we hear, like great corners, right,
Steph Gilmore has talked about this, Christian has alwas talked

(01:10:18):
about this. Gilmore especially would talk about like, yeah, if
this guy's foot was at this angle when he was
lined up versus like two degrees differently this way, like
I knew what route he was running, right. That takes
hours and hours and hours to study. And Travis Hunter
is a film junkie. We know that he's talked about
that a lot. But you gotta study a lot of
film on offense too, because you're probably doing that for

(01:10:39):
the opposing corner. So to be able to do both
of those things, it's tougher is if you're at safety,
you're just kind of back reading the picture in front
of you. It's more big.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Picture, Okay, I could see that. All right. A bunch
of questions about this, and I'm glad that the emailer
has brought it up because, like we've been saying, my
mind kind of let it, let it slip when we
were on the breaking news part of the show. But
Harold Landry, it sounds like that he is going to
be on the trade block on the move that came
out earlier this morning, and obviously a very huge connection

(01:11:10):
to Mike. I think Mike drafted Herod land.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
I believe, I know Landry had the most sacks of
any Titan during Verble.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Ninety nine point nine percent. Sure that I think you're
pick uh now, some.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Of the the that's you know, sort of the pro
right of you know, familiarity with Rabel, familiarity with the system,
productive in the system still had I want to say,
nine sacks last year.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
I mean, not a big pressure guy last year, but
still cleaned up a little bit. Uh with the sack numbers,
so non sacks yep, and twenty eight years old, so
not not ancient, right, Like I you know, we were
talking about this earlier and I was like, isn't he
like really old?

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Thought he's forty?

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Okay, I was, I was obviously exagger.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Yeah, but even forty exaggerating means you think he's like
thirty three, thirty five.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Yeah, I thought he was like his into his thirties
because I just feel like I've been familiar with the
player for a long time. I guess I'm you know,
time flies. The downside, I suppose, is the seventeen point
five million dollars that he's due on his rest of
his contract over the next two years. He's I think
he's that's it's it's seventeen point five next year. I

(01:12:14):
don't know what it is in the second year. Regardless,
he's not a seventeen point five million dollars year player anymore.
And on top of that, if you're also giving up
some sort of trade compensation to make it happen. Now,
usually these stairdowns can end in just an outright release,
maybe post June one cut something like that when team,
you know, the team recognizes we're not gonna get anything

(01:12:34):
for him, or you know, we'll just let him lose.
So maybe that could be the case, and you know,
he just becomes a free agent and were able can
sway him to come here to play with him and
Terrell Williams again. But what are your thoughts overall now
that I laid it down on Harold Er?

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Yeah, I mean they need multiple pass rushers. Is he
their answer at the top, you know, the guy you're
building it around. Probably not. Is he a really good
second guy, really good clean up guys you like to
call it. Yeah, he would be. And he's a guy
we talked earlier about. You know how desirable the destination
the Patriots really are in free agency and sometimes you
know how many times we've done this with players last
couple of years. You can't just wait for him to

(01:13:10):
get cut. You can't just wait for me forree agency
because he won't sign here. You get a trade for him, Landry,
you can sell. They should be able to sell Landry
by putting him back, like you said with Mike Grabel
and Terrell Williams. Not worth paying seventeen million, especially if
you're giving up something on top of that. But he's
a guy that I feel pretty comfortable that if he
got to free agency, New England be his top destination

(01:13:30):
because to sell to him, like I say, he's a
younger guy, one year, come here to a system you
know you can succeed in. You've proven to have success
in sign a one year deal. We're gonna get you
going again. We're gonna get your double digit sacks and
boom you go next year and you get paid at
thirty here or somewhere else, right. That would be my
pitch to Harold Landry.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
So I do think there are maybe some injuries that
have piled up there for Landry to just you know,
a lot of usage, a lot of miles over the
last couple of years. But out of all the hypothetical
this you know name you know just became available via trade,
I kind of like this one the most, probably just
because of the familiarity with the scheme in freegel that
it just feels like we just talked about this off

(01:14:11):
the top of the show, that six eight, ten quality
veteran starter contributors in free agency or the veteran market,
that's what he is right now. That's what Harold Landry
is right now, that's a multiplayer. So you acquire Harold Madry,
maybe you restructure the contract for the year to make
it more digestible for the Patriots, not that they need

(01:14:32):
the cap space, but just from a value standpoint to
your point, maybe resets his value and now you have
a guy in Harold Landry that can play the role,
that can play the position, and you're not panicking that
you need an edge rusher in the draft necessarily. Now,
if abdual Carter falls to you, you still take Abdual Carter,
but you're not in this hole all got, you know,

(01:14:53):
where's the pass rush coming from? The Other thing I
like about Landry just you know, looking at his stats
last year and some of the tape that I've seen
of him from last year, he's one of those guys
that's really good at cleaning up. Like he's not necessarily
gonna be the guy that gets the primary pressure. But
just assuming you know, fingers crossed, And I guess we
should talk a little bit about bar Moore two and
his status. You know, if you do have a Christian Barmore,

(01:15:15):
if you do have Keon White, they're gonna pick a
defensive lineman or a defensive front player in the in
the top one hundred, whether it's Day one or day two,
they're gonna pick somebody. So if you have these guys
that can all bring that immediate disruption, it is Harold
Landry the guy that can mop up and just get this,
get the quarterback, you know, on the ground. Nine Sacks
suggests that he could still probably do that. Yeah, so

(01:15:36):
I like all those things with Harold Landry. I'm for
this one. Like usually I'm not for these, like Cooper Cups,
Joey Bosas, like.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Those types of things.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Young enough, and yeah, I like this one a little bit.
All right, another email here, Bill and san Diego said,
you know, in order, you know, we were talking about
Hunter majoring and wide receiver and minoring in corner would
be a little bit challenging. He know, he he brings
up guys like Troy Brown. Now Troy Brown was at
a desperation. Yeah, that that was different.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
He played corner out of desperation, and if I remember correctly,
his wide receiver role decreased in those games.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
I would think so.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
But it wasn't like he was doing that. He had
a limit. What he was otherwise doing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
Yeah, it just feels like to me, uh, the examples
of like Troy Brown, uh, the example of Julian Edelman
even right, like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
M wasn't playing receiver at the time, but not full time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Those things were done out of desperation because the Patriots
were decimated by injuries at cornerback. Yeah, and so they
had they needed bodies. That that's not you're asking. You're
hoping that Travis Hunter is gonna make an impact on defense, right, Uh,
you know sort of like what when when Marcus Jones's
mood lights on offense? Right, like that that sort of thing,
the spark. Yeah, I I don't think that I get

(01:16:52):
what the email are saying that it's been done, you
know the other guy that it's it's been done. The
other way that some people bring up is like Champ Bailey, right,
who who it in college? Like Travis Hunter did and
then did it very minimally, but like did it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
A little bit like kind of like remember Champ Bailly
doing any NFL?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Yeah he has. And that's like a comp that some
people I've used for for Hunters in generally just overall
Champ Billy all right, A couple of prospect you know
type emails here getting in Mark from Connecticut, one of
our our very loyal listeners. Uh. He brought up Harold
Fannon Junior at a bowling Green And the reason why,

(01:17:31):
you know, I think it's a good topic is because
one of the three positions Elliott Wolf mentioned at the
podium that he likes in this draft, defensive line, was
kind of in its own tier, right. He was very
high on the defensive line, tight end, and running back.
So he kind of feels like the consensus I think,
I think that's pretty safe consensus sort of answer there.
But Harold Fannin's in that group with Elijah Royo and

(01:17:55):
Mason Taylor and gunner Helm gunner Helm that they're all
kind of us together there on day two. The thing
that scares me a little bit about Harrold Fannon is
him in this offense particularly. Yep, it's a little John
now Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
That's my comp form, I mean, regardless of the Patriots,
like overall, that's that's the come.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Yeah, I like you hear you know, a little bit
John new Smith, a little bit of Isaiah Likely like that,
you know, type of player.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Scheme touch player he is. He wasn't used that way
in college, but like in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
That yeah, you know you hear some crazy like, oh
he's kind of you know, got some Travis kelcey at
the top of the route, Like I, I guess no
one's Travis kelce Uh So I don't as Kelsey isn't even.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
The player people talk about Travis Kelsey.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
But the point being a I like the player in general.
You know, with Fannin, if I was just grading the
player for a generic football team, you know, like a
created team, I would say that I like the player,
but I do worry about that type of guy. Maybe
it's just some Johnny Smith PTSD.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
We've talked about, like for a long time, Josh McDaniels.
That's kind of been the blind spot is the scheme
touch guys. He hasn't figured him out. I also, and
I think this comp goes both ways. There's a little
Kyle Pitts in his game too, So.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Yeah, I could see that. I think Kyle Pitts is
more bigger and like more of like a receiver playing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
But like I fan in for the Patriots to me,
if they're gonna get a tight end, they should get
their kind of tight end. If you want to add
that element to the offense. Find a slot receiver or
find like get that guy later, get a guy like
Kevin Bartholomew. Where you're not wasting such a high pick
or not I should say wasting, but risking such a
high pick.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
Yeah, if I had to take a tight end and
not range of the draft, I'm not a I'm also
you know, I'm not a huge Arroyo guy, because I mean,
I think Royo is is a receiver playing tight end.
You know. I think that he can he can really
get up the seam. You know, he can really run
the you know, stretch the field vertically from inside the formation.
He can run crossers and run away from defenders that way,

(01:20:02):
especially in the middle of the field. Ye I see
this skill set, and I see what everybody's you know,
excited about with the Royo. But I'm a little bit
intrigued by Mason Taylor, Like I see a little bit
of everything there, like the body type. I don't think
he's a great blocker yet, but I think he's got
the body type to be a good blocker. And I

(01:20:23):
think he's got some receiving upside, athletic upside. I'm also
a sucker for the pedigree thing like with his father
and all that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
And I think everything you hear about him in the
LSU And I know we went down this road last
year and it didn't work out. But I do think
if there's one thing they're in a copy from last
year's draft, and people are probably rolling their eyes, but
if there's one thing you're in a copy, Remember we
came away from the draft like they drafted the leaders, right,
Jalen Polk for you know, the bad play. He was
supposed to be this guy that was, you know, a

(01:20:51):
little more mature than the average rookie. Obviously, Drake May,
Joe Milton, character guy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
It was a lot of these not the whole draft,
but a lot of these guys. You you know, people
raved about how they were in the locker room. You
hear a lot about that with Mason Taylor, that he
was like a big part of the culture at LSU,
which has always been a strong culture program even when
the team's maybe not that good. So I that, like,
I would like to see them continue to do that
because these players you're drafting this year are still foundational.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Yeah that's fair, all right. This is from Noah in Toronto,
that's saying that I underrate Drake London because Drake London
is usually my Teed McMillan co Drake London is a.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
Really good number two wide receiver, really really, so you know, he.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Has his stats here. I didn't realize he had thirteen
hundred yards last year. But it's also in seventeen games.
But who else they throw the ballt in nine touchdowns,
darnahld Moody. Don't disrespect Darnald this is one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Other guy, all right, Darnah Moody. They don't exactly have
a wide range of targets.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
Okay, So the way I look at it, and Noah
said he would be thrilled with Drake London at the
number four pick. He has a case this year that,
given the talent at the top of the draft is
what it is, you could make a case that a
Drake London type player is a good pick in this class.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
Well, you know, I'll be honest, that's the case. I've
been making a tackle, right. I've said, if Will Campbell
becomes Nate Solder, he's your starting left tackle for ten years.
And maybe he's not an All Pro, but he's like
solid and you don't need to replace him in whatever
in this draft, I'll take that guy at four. So
if I'm gonna say i'll take that guy at for
a tackle, I think I kind of have to say
I'll take that guy fo it receiver, right, you're a

(01:22:27):
little take corner. We'll take cornered now. But now that
being said, if I had to choose between that tackle
or that receiver, like equal caliber players, which position this
We talked about this, I think last week, right with
the tie breakers, yeah, give me the tackle. Yeah, if
they're the same caliber player, I will take the tackle.
But I can't say that, you know, Will Campbell being

(01:22:47):
Nate Solder would be this great success, while Teed McMillan
being Drake London would be a bust. I don't think
I can say that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
That's that's very noble you, that's very fair objective. Now
when I say that, I.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Don't get yelled at for being a hypocrite.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
When I say that about Drake London and Ted and
all that, I think I where I'm coming from is
if I'm taking a receiver at four, overall, I need
to be able to project Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson like
I need to be able to project.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
I don't think it's fairly.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
If you're going that high in the draft, like that
guy needs to turn into a Jamar Chase. Like you
need to be talking about a superstar receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
I mean, you just named who, just say Calvin Johnson
and Julio Jones and Jamar. Yeah, I'll give you Jamar
for like, all right, whatever, semantics.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
It's semantics, but you need to be projecting. In my opinion,
the ceiling there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Needs to be different between wide receiver and tackle. That's
a fair point.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
I didn't think of that, And now I'm taking covered
my I covered my ass now. I I just that's
the way I look at it with receivers.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Why why don't you look at that way?

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
I think i'll tell you why. I know why, I'll
tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
I don't know what to say. You're you're right, it's
a fair.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Point because you value tackles more than you value receivers.
I value tackles a little bit more. And I also
would say that there's different avenues to acquire receivers that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Have teed McMillan's skill level. It's tougher to get to tackle,
and I just I gotta be honest, and this is
probably not the best way to approach it, and this
is probably why I'm not in charge, and I shouldn't be.
But the bottom line is is that I'm kind of
sick of watching Drake may on his butt, like like,
you got the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Frame, that's value.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
There you go. You got the franchise, right, like you
need to protect the franchise now, You're right. Though, if
we're gonna say that we would take Will Campbell in
this draft even though he's not a joalt level prospect,
that we kind of have to say the same thing
about Drake London not being in Molik Neighbors level prospect
right or Marvin Harrison junior level prospect. But that's just
the way I look at receivers. Here's the next one
from Kyle and Pembroke, also a regular listener. Uh. The

(01:25:01):
other name it's being floated around the combine this week
in terms of veterans available on the trade market is
Jaiyir Alexander. I'll say this off the top, I love
Jay Alexanders. That guy's a dog. So do you remember
that guy's a great player, but he's been hurt and
that you know he's he hasn't really played like a Tony.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
He did and he got suspended for it, but I
loved it. He like they were playing back.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
I think it was.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
They were playing in Carolina, where he's from, and the
Packers like rotate. They don't have defined captains for all
six spots. They rotate guys or something like that. Yeah,
and he wanted to be a captain at home, but
he wasn't. But he went out for the coin toss anyway,
and they asked Hi about and he was like, I
decided I'm a captain. Like as nuts as that sounds like,

(01:25:52):
you need to think that way to be a corner
in this league. You need to have that level of
confidence to be an elite corner in this league. If
another position did that, I might feel differently. A cornerback
saying no, efitt, I'm a captain of this team. That
kind of rules. I'm sorry. That kind of rules so
healthy Gyre Alexander is a baller. He's only twenty eight

(01:26:14):
years old. Now here's the games that he's played in
the last four seasons.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Seven games. Seven games he played sixteen and twenty twenty two,
and he went to the Pro Bowl and was a
second Team All Pro four games, So three out of
the last four years he hasn't even made it half
the season, and at that price tag and for the
level player that he this is why he's available, right,
Like this is Russ is why he's available. So I
don't for that reason, I might be out. You know,

(01:26:42):
he's not healthy, he's not available, he doesn't play. But
I do love the player when he is healthy. So
I don't know if they did something like JayR Alexander
am I, I'm not going to be I'm not gonna
be mad at It's kind of like what I was
saying earlier about receiver with like a lave and Jamison Williams,
and like, if that's a swing that they take on
a veteran player and and hope that it works out,

(01:27:02):
then I really like he won that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Coins won that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
Uh he was he was. He was a clearly great
player in his draft like.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
That unbelievable player. I've always been a fan of him.
Unbelievable player, underrated.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
All right, Uh, Patty, Patty chimes in, So Patty, you
couldn't get him on the phone, so I got him
an email. Uh. His Dion Walker comp is Alan Branch
What do you think of that one.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
I think Alan Branch was more of like that true
nose tackle. Maybe I'm under selling Alan Branch. I don't
remember him being that athletic, good player, though underrated player,
underrated championship player for the Patriots. He's a big part
of that defense when they won the super Bowl with him.
But I don't know that i'd make that comp Yeah,
that's fair. Great player though great player. Not enough people
talk about Alan Branch and how much he did for

(01:27:49):
the Patriots. So good name Paul Patty.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Okay? Uh so, uh, Paul is is upset about Elliott Wolf.
This is not Paul Parillo. This is another an Paul.
Just just for the record, that wasn't as bad as
you know, me breaking news on behalf of my grease,
which was not what.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Yesterday signed a contract as Mike Grave was going to
the boat.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Okay, okay, let's not put it back out there and
confuse people more.

Speaker 1 (01:28:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Anyways, uh you know, he he lays it out here.
I don't need to get in. We all know. The
particular is the draft wasn't good last year. Free agency
wasn't good last year. Wolf owned that today. So I'm
not breaking any News with that, but he asked the
million dollar question, which to be fair, you know, towards
the end there with Drod Mayo, we got the same question. Yeah,
you know, what does what does Elliott Wolf bring to

(01:28:36):
the table? You know what what makes you feel like
you know he's the right man for the job. I
think the one thing that I always go back on
with Elliot Wolf And when we were talking to him earlier,
this is his thirty first combine. Yeah, because he's been
coming to the Combine with his father since he was
a little kid, and he told a great story about
how his father had him tracking broad jumps one of

(01:29:00):
the combines that he was at when he was still
you know, a kid or teenager or whatever, and for
whatever reason, the the the official record keeper lost the
broad jumps that didn't have him. So the only person
that recorded every single prod jump at the Combine that
year was a young Elliott Wolf. So the NFL used

(01:29:21):
Elliott Wolf's broad jumps at the Combine. That's that's it.
It's the pedigree, right, It's the bloodlines and the fact
that out of everything that you could say about last offseason,
all that he he's been around it and he's got
a resume of an NFL general.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
And like any field sports are not, there's an element
of it that's political. And this is a guy that
has been around and knows people and when you want
to try to trade, when you're trying to you know,
navigate through the agents and the gms and this and that.
He's been on those roads. Ryan Cowden has as well,
but not for as long Mike Rabel has been a
head coach, so he's done it to an extent. Elie, Well,

(01:30:01):
it's been around the block with these guys. He knows,
he knows the ins and outs.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
Yeah, it's a it's a fair email, Paul like, yeah,
you know, it's a fair question.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
Is that he's out to prove himself right? Is that
all enough to give him like full control of the roster?
I don't think so, but I I he doesn't bring
nothing to the table.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
Yeah, yeah. Uh. Luther Burden question, uh yeah from Jeremiah.
You know with the buzz around the combine right now
that Luther Burden could fall out of the first round,
are you interested at thirty eight? Yes? Yeah, me as well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
I would be interested in slight trade up as well.
I think he's He's everything you've wanted them to having
a receiver for a while. Oh yeah, explosive, H three
level playmaker. It's got that attitude and in a good way.
I know it showed up in a bad way last year,
but in a good way. And I the quote from
the scout about he's you know, he got bored with

(01:30:53):
Missouri's offense assuming they use him in the role. I
think they would use him in and that guy's not
getting bored. And Josh mcdames, it's gonna be one hundred
running target if I was going to say thirty or
four hundred, thirty hundred and forty. So I really like
Luther Burden. There was a time where I considered him
the best receiver in this draft. I'm not quite there anymore.
I think the gap between him and McMillan, though for

(01:31:15):
me is small, is smaller than his for a lot
of people. Yeah, I think for the right I wouldn't.
I would need to know the team. I don't know
that he's a blanket first round talent, but I think
on certain teams he's certainly worth the first round pick
if you have certain infrastructure in place. But to get
him in the second at this point, if I'm any
team to get that skill set in the building, absolutely absolutely,
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
He with the right coaching.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
It's not going to step in day one and do it,
but I think with the right coaching, he can be
a game changer.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
He's when Luther Burden is right, or actually just say
twenty twenty three Luther Burden and he was right the
whole season. He's an easily top twenty, top fifteen talent
in this class. I think that that goes out saying
he's what I love about Luther Burden and that type
of receiver as you were talking about, just a three
level separator, Like you can hit him on quick hitters

(01:32:02):
over the middle of the field and he'll catch and
run with it for an explosive. And the route at
the top and he can catch and run with it
for another explosive. Like any route can be a touchdown. Yeah,
he's got that ability to dynamic playmaking ability everywhere on
the field. Yeah, all three levels of the defense, crossing routes, digs,
you know, big digs, things like that, verticals, quick touches,

(01:32:25):
scheme touches, you know, quick hitters, scheme touches, all of it.
I love the player he got thirty eight. I mean,
it's a no brainer to me because you're getting a
guy that's first round talent. That's when you pick those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
I will say he might fall throd that though if
he got further, like does he get if he falls?

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
If he falls further than that, then it's more than
just what happened last.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
Does he get the eighty Mitchell treatment?

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
Like he could?

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
That's what I'm saying, Like that wouldn't surprise me. And
that's there. I do have a roll thumb. At a
certain point where we hear some things, we don't hear everything.
The guy starts falling that far, it's like, all right,
somebody knows something.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
I'd yeah, all right, David and Madrid's got a couple
questions for us. But first before his actual questions, Uh,
he says he's loving watching Barth at the combine. He
said that you look like a kid in Disneyland. Uh. Hey,
we gotta like, we gotta, you know, talk about this
for a second, like what what what's your favorite part
so far that you're willing to share on here? What's

(01:33:23):
your favorite part so far about about your first combine?
This is big news, people, want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
So this is cool right now again, to talk to
lanzer Line was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
Yeah, that was super cool.

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
Uh And and some of the other other interviews that
I did Mark Ross this morning was awesome. Jeff Howe.
Yesterday I talked to some of the local guys as well,
do more talking about prospects. Interesting because I feel like
you can be looser with these guys than maybe you are,
like a guy that's already like it's not quite media
Monday at the Super Bowl where things get really off

(01:33:56):
the rails, but there is like I would surprised how
many college football writers are here and guys asking about
what can you tell us about your teammate? What can
you tell us about you know this guy? What can
you tell us about facing this guy? So like I
feel like that relaxed the environment a little bit, so
being able, Like I was asking a bunch of the
defensive linemen today. I know you're making fun of me

(01:34:17):
for asking him if they met with the Patriots, But.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
Did you see that guy? I'm sorry to interrupt you,
but there's a guy walking around that had a sweatshirt
on and said have you met with and then like
a fill in the blank and I really want to
buy one because after today, I don't know what the
Patriots no.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
But I that's not how So I was asking about well,
I asked a couple of guys, and I got some
good answers, like what is it like how different is
it when you meet with Mike Rabel or a guy
that's coached in this league, a guy that's played in
this league versus a guy that hasn't. And so that's
where like TJ. Sanders was telling me that he hasn't

(01:34:56):
met with the Patriots here, but he met with him
at the Senior Bowl, and Mike Rabel was literally coaching
up and telling him like parts of his game, like hey,
if you do this differently, this will improve. And you know,
obviously that's football coaching, but a guy that's played can
give that insight. I also really enjoyed asking some of
the linemen, like who is the best offensive lineman you faced?

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Yeah? Right, I do actually like that question, I was teasing.
I got.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
I especially made a point because he can't talk to
everybody who's like eight, ten, twelve podiums at once, so
it's tough to get to everyone. So I tried to
make a point to do that with the SEC guys.
A lot of Will Campbell, a lot of Calvin Banks.
Those are the most of the answers. Tyler Booker from
Alabama was a guy I got a couple of times.
The interesting one is a good note for the Patriots.

(01:35:39):
So I mostly asked the edge guys because I wanted
to hear about the tackles. But I did ask a
couple of interior defensive guys. I want to say it
was Nick Gordon who said this, but I don't remember exactly.
Cooper Mays, who's the center at Tennessee, who is the
brother of Cade Mays, who I really liked in the
draft a couple of years ago, son of coach. Patriots
might need a center on Day three, they might be
looking there. Cooper May's at A couple of guys, tell me,

(01:36:01):
interior guys, tell me Cooper Mason. Tennessee was a tough battle.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
So there you go. I actually did ask Kyle Canard, Canard,
you're the name guy. Yeah, I did ask Kyle Canard
about Will Campbell, his matchup with Will Campbell last year. Yeah,
he got him as good as anybody. Yeah, he got
him with a couple of times, crossing his face on
the inside. Those are like the clips that you see
of you know, he Will Campbell over sets. Like if

(01:36:24):
you wanted an example of that, a tangible clip example,
you go to that game and pull the Kyle Canard
l's that Campbell took. And he was kind of diplomatic
about it. You know, he didn't exactly, you know, go
too hard at Will Campbell, but he said its a
good battle and you know, just the iron sharp and
iron that type of thing. So I do like that question.
It is interesting, you know, ask the corners, the receivers,

(01:36:46):
the receivers, the corners, you know, the tackles with the
edge rushers, you know that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:51):
So there was one really interesting answer I got from
Princely woman me Ellen from Little Miss, who said Will
Campbell and I asked. He said he'd never seen a
tackle run block like that. And obviously we're you know,
we're talking about these guys, his pass boxers and protecting
Drake May. But he said he'd never seen tackle like
that aggressive and that ferocious in the run game. So

(01:37:11):
that was interesting perspective. Okay, give it what you will, but.

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
Do you have an all podium Honestly, this is big
at the combine he got to give an All podium on.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
So we've only talked to one group me. Ellen was
really good. Yeah, he had some good insight. He's very conversational. Yep.
Scrton was really good. Kind of talked about his background,
how he got here's the guy wh's played a lot
of different position. Gave some insight into that and Ben
SAAL's I got to talk. There was a line for

(01:37:42):
Ben Saws. I had to wait, No, you did it? Yeah, no,
there was a lot. Legitimately there was. I think he
was from Pittsburgh. The guy he must have been from
Pittsburgh got in front of me because I heard him
asking other players about Steelers. But yeah, I got like
three or four questions. Ben SAAL's intense guy. And if
they want like intense people, guy, don't get me wrong,
he was, but intense.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
We're getting this is a Bomber moment.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Yeah, the little Bomber moment means at the in the
college Bombers where we went to school.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Okay, mister Frog's behind the camera back there.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
He's you you gonna put a betch on your all
All podium team. So it's betch. I think it's batch.
Yeah that it's not bech, it's betch yeah. Uh anyway, anyway,
like you want your kickers to be intense, right and souls.
You know. I asked him what it's like to be
elected kicker, Like, turn't that many guys? He goes, I
just want to be a great kicker. I was like,

(01:38:35):
all right, I get that. And you know, I was like,
an answer, you kicked an a paraphrase, kicked an Akracher stadium, Like,
how does that help you in Lincoln? It's good for
my resume, it's you know, respect his dam like he
was just all business.

Speaker 2 (01:38:47):
I do have to mention this, and I don't. I
don't think he'll mind. But my favorite thing about the
combine is that like somebody that has not watched a
second of film will just completely judge a guy off
of his podium presence and just be like, I'm out,
so one no socks comes after Mason Graham goes at
the podium and we can't draft that guy. And I

(01:39:09):
was like, what do you mean. He's like, I won't
I won't go too much into what he said, but
that that's what he said. And I was just laughing
so hard, and I was like, I mean, other than
maybe Travis Hunters, probably the best tape in the entire draft.
And I will say this about Mason Graham though the
backup no socks, just a just a teeny weeny bit.

(01:39:31):
I he he came as advertised in terms of his
his demeanor and his personality. I don't necessarily think he's
he's not gonna be a ten year captain like Will Campbell,
right like, I don't think he's gonna be our big, raw,
raw guy speaking of the devil no socks on the
on the scene. I don't think that he's gonna be

(01:39:52):
one of those types of guys that's not necessarily a
bad thing. But I couldn't help but feeling when when
Mason Graham was up there that if Belichick was still
in charge, this is just one of those guys that
is going to quietly go about his business. He's gonna
be in the building at six a m. He's gonna
work his tail off, He's gonna be an excellent football player.

(01:40:13):
It's not the flashy pick. It's not you know, the
only difference between him and Gonzalz is Gonzalz was awesome
at the combine in terms of the workout. But he's
not going to be the best athlete. He's not going
to be a first off the bus guy. He's not
going to be a raw, raw vocal leader. But he's
just gonna get crap done. He's just going to be
a really good football player. If they still have any
of that Belichick DNA in terms of that sort of thing,

(01:40:34):
then I could see them gravitating towards Mason Graham. If
if Rayone wants guys like him, like like Rabel, then
that then that's not then it's Mike Campbell or yeah.
Uh the other the guy that I would say my
all podium guy of the day, Jalen Walker from Georgia.

Speaker 1 (01:40:50):
Yeah, I couldn't. He had bigger crowd anybody. I think
he had a bigger crowd than Graham. I couldn't get
close enough to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
I mean, I loved him already on tape, you know,
so I was already kind of swooning a little bit.
But listening to him talk about some of the conversations
that he's had with teams here at the Combine about
his role at the next level, and he just was like,
I can play four different positions on the defense, at
a high level. You know, he can play off the ball,
he can play edge. He said he thinks he can

(01:41:17):
play nickel if you want him to. And then you
know Nicol Sam yeah, you know, like a strong side
nickel player. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I believe them,
like like he's that kind of athlete you see, you hear,
you know, sometimes you hear some Jamie Collins, like in
terms of athletic freakish athleticism comparisons with Jalen Walker. He's

(01:41:38):
an excellent, like third down situational pass rusher. I don't
think that he's a full time edge player, but he's
an excellent situational passer. Then on early downs he can
play off the ball linebacker. So in that sense, you
have like kind of that high tower Collins, you know,
type of hybrid player. I get that it's probably not
the the need pick, you know, in terms of tackle,

(01:42:00):
edge rusher things like that with Jalen Walker. But I
just all those Georgia guys, you just get up to
the podium and they're so polished and yeah, so all
the NFL training has already gone through their veins in
terms of, you know, how to handle the media and
all that kind of stuff, and he's an awesome player.
He's gonna be a really good player in the league.
I think any other takeaways we talked about Mason Graham.

(01:42:22):
That was important. I wanted to fit that in there
than from today or yesterday before we talk about what's ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
We can get to what's said.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
All right, So tomorrow on Thursday, we have the defensive
backs and we have the tight ends. It's kind of
a sneaky big day.

Speaker 1 (01:42:36):
Bryson has bit ten am. That's the one I'll be
you know, I'll be around obviously for all of them,
but that's the one I'm interested. I think we're gonna
get some goo stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:42:42):
Sneaky big day, really really great tight end classes we
talked about a little bit today.

Speaker 1 (01:42:48):
You know who's on that list too. We could talk
to tomorrow and he's gonna be in the same spot.
Ben Salz was to Robbie Oots.

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
Robbie Oots full back, Robbioots.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
Is he listened as the fullback. I meant to check that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
No, he's listened with the tight ends.

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
Okay, he's a full back.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
Yeah, he's a full back.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
But he's like, I get we're talking about you want
that kind of hybrid guy that's going to play full
back but catch some passes and move around the formation. Yeah,
you could take Harold fann In at thirty eight. Yeah,
you want a lot less risk. I'm not going to
say the same upside, but like, you know, decent upside.
Go get Robbie Hoots in the six or seventeen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:21):
He so, Bill O'Brien used him as like a base.
O'Brien every as a full back. And I think I
can tell this story now because he's not with the
Atriots anymore. But Bill O'Brien, Alex and I were at
the Shrine.

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
Bowl, can I can I tell this story first real quick? Yeah,
so I forget who you were watching. You were watching
somebody from Alabama. This was like two drafts ago, and no,
I was watching the Alabama offense because Bill O'Brien was
their offense. Oh that's what it was.

Speaker 2 (01:43:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:44):
Yeah, And you text me who's forty seven and on
the Alabama offense? This is one of those floaded Alabama teams. Yeah,
and I'm like, you're really texting me about like you
of all people, really text me about the fullback, Like, yeah,
Robbi Oats is great, but you're love you about you
were you were all exa. It's so because he's fun.
He's not your kind of player. He's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
I love fullback. So Alex and I are at what's
the name of the hotel again the the the the
beam with the beam Beam were the Luxor. So we're
staying at the Luxor Hotel at the Shrine Bowl and uh,
we're there, you know a couple of years ago and

(01:44:22):
Bill belichicking the coaching staff were at the Shrine Bowl
and we're walking into the main hotel lobby to the
doors and a car pulls up in front of us
and who gets out of the car below it's.

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
Bill O'Brien, Like a day or two after they hired
right Ray had.

Speaker 2 (01:44:36):
Just hired him as the offensive coordinator. He gets out
of the car to you know, join the coaching staff
in Vegas, and me, being you know, the big j
that I am, I was like, I'm gonna go say hi, right,
I'm gonna go say hi to Bill O'Brien. So I
go up to Bill O'Brien and I say, hey, hey, Bill,
you know Evan Lazar Patriots dot Com. Just wanted to
introduce myself. And he goes oh yeah, I I I know,

(01:44:59):
I know who you are. And I was like you do,
like you just got here, what do you mean and
he goes, yeah, I read, I read what you wrote
about my offense on the website. Don't do that again,
and and I was like okay, and he was like yeah.
He was like, you know, sequencing plays and like you
gave away too much. And I was I was like,
all right, yeah, noted. I will never do that again,

(01:45:21):
I promise. But the way that I figured out how
he was sequencing the plays was through robb uots because
his usage of about robbi oots was he was building
up to something with robb you oats and then they
ran like a bluff screen or something like that and
hit it for like a fifty yard touchdown later in
the game. And I was like, wow, that is a
tremendous sequencing of plays, Like that's awesome. So yeah, that

(01:45:44):
that's a little Bill O'Brien's story. So I have the
tight ends tomorrow, So oh yeah, don't do that again.
Just like that, I was like like I'm white as ghost.
I'm like, oh god, Tyler Warren tomorrow, Polston Lovelan, Uh,
those will be big. And then obviously at eleven am
on tomorrow. On Thursday with Group four A, we got

(01:46:06):
Travis Hunter at the post main event, so that would
be the main event. And I'm just fascinated. I'm really
interested to look at you to his get his answer
on the million dollar question.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
But like he's gonna say, he's gonna say he wants
to play both ways. He's gonna say, you know, I
feel comfortable playing both ways. Wherever the team needs me,
I'll go.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:26):
The real answer is gonna be what we hear out
of meetings. I think, yeah, it will be interesting to
hear him answer the question. I just wonder, you know,
he's gonna get up there. You're probably right, he's gonna
see I think he's gonna say he's not gonna close
any doors because he doesn't help himself if he closed
any doors.

Speaker 2 (01:46:40):
He's gonna say he wants to play both ways.

Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
Yep. And I think because he's but that he's but
that he's up for like he's comfortable with whatever. Yeah,
I I wherever the team needs him.

Speaker 2 (01:46:50):
I just wonder if if you know, he'll get asked, obviously,
why are you with the defensive backs? And I think
we both have kind of gone over on this show
about the schedule, logistics and stuff. Maybe it's as simple
as that, And yeah, I'm interested to see what he
says when he's you know, pressed on that a little
bit about what position he's gonna play. You know, we
mentioned some of the deeper tight ends today and we

(01:47:10):
got asked about Fanning, but you know, there's a little
his tight end class is great. You know, there's gonna
be a lot of good tight ends to talk to tomorrow.
Bryson nesbit at at ten am is a good shout
by you. That's a good one as well. Is there
any other you know corners safeties? And then I do
want to talk about the workouts tomorrow getting underway as well.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
Some of the Senior Bowl guys, just because there were
some guys that really wasn't as familiar with that stood
out at Senior Bowl. Mac McWilliams, who I know you
like from UCF. He's a corner, but I think you
think mac McWilliams could play a little free safet if
you need him too.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
Definitely could play Nickel.

Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
I don't know about free safety, but like they used
to move John Jones back there at times. Yeah, not
single high but like a split state. You think he'd
be a split safety. Maybe he definitely has the ball skills.
He reminds me a little bit of John Jones a
little bit. Yeah, he's a little bit longer, I feel
like than John Jones, Yes, looking at his body type.
But I hear but like Mac McWilliams, I want to

(01:48:04):
hear from uh, the Texas kid who's not getting enough
nearly enough tench for the Patriots right now, Texas long week,
the Texas safety. Oh boy, I'll look it up for you. Uh,
Andrew mccooba. Oh yeah, And mccob I just want to
kind of because he is a little bit of a
rarity in that you don't see that many guys that
were like true free safeties in college football anymore. All

(01:48:27):
these guys are coming out as highbrids. But mccouba kind
of was a true free safety. So how he views
himself coming to the league. He'd be a great fit
for the Patriots. And it if Schevan what time Chevon
Rebel talks, he where he's at. If he talks, he's
not gonna work out right like I would, just I
don't think. So he's at eleven twenty tomorrow. Okay, yep,

(01:48:50):
so just kind of see where because he's an I
don't know how much you studied him. I haven't done
as much as i'd like to. But from what I've seen,
physical guy like he well for he's my kind of
corner like reminds me you remember how much I love
TREEQ willen right six three long arms plays man plays press,
a small school guy transfer it he on tape. It

(01:49:10):
does not look like he should fall to thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
Doesn't look like it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
If he hadn't torn his ACL he wouldn't have he'd
be clear first round pick if he does fall to
thirty eight. You know, I've been pretty insistent when we
talk about Josh Simmons that the Patriots top three picks
need to play this year. But if Shavon Revel, you know,
if it's he'll be back in October, that's a really
interesting pick. At thirty eight, he might be the best

(01:49:33):
player on the board. That would be a really interesting pick,
assuming he's on the right track recovery wise.

Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
Yeah. So you know, defensive backs, I think the Senior
Bowl guys too are are you know? Obviously I watched
those guys up close, so I'm interested. I am interested
in a little bit just to hear, you know, from
Will Johnson, because I mean, I don't think it's right
for the Patriots, but I still, you know, just he's
actually going at the at the same time as Travis Hunter,
so that's gonna be tough. But with Will Johnson, I

(01:50:02):
just there's some questions there that probably wouldn't have existed
if he could have just came out after winning the
National Championship Game. You know, long speed, you know, man
to man ability, you know, to cover routes down the
field and vertical routes and stay attached and all that
good stuff. But I think a lot of that and
I you know, I mentioned I meant to say this
with Luther Burdon too, those young breakout players, and this

(01:50:25):
is a big feather in Luther Burden's cap, especially at
the receiver position. If you're a young breakout player and
you break out before your draft eligible, like the year
before your draft eligible, uh tip. You know, there's a
lot of examples of that junior season being kind of
a letdown, Like you know you're gonna go to the NFL,
you know you're probably gonna be a first round pick.
You just don't have the fire, like you just don't

(01:50:46):
have it. And I wonder a little bit of that
with Will Johnson. He's not as fast, I don't think
as he's not gonna run like Christian Gonzales did, but
he kind of glides like that, you know where it
doesn't look like he's kind of effortless, like he's not
trying sometimes, but I think he is. I'll get you
this one too. This will just be interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
I bet the majority of the big ten corners will
get asked what it was like covering Jeremiah Smith. Yeah,
and maybe some of the teams they play in college
football playoff too. And obviously Jeremiah Smith's not in the draft,
but I think we'll get some interesting answers from that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
Okay, So then tomorrow night or tomorrow afternoon, Yeah, starting
at three o'clock is the defensive line and linebackers are
gonna go through their authetic testing and on field drills.
Who are you looking for in that CLA just gotta
say like hunger down somewhere if you want to watch
the whole thing, because that's a big group the long night. Yeah,

(01:51:38):
but those guys are all really talented.

Speaker 1 (01:51:40):
Yeah they are. I don't know that there's any one
specific guy. I just think the group collectively has a
chance to impress. I guess I don't want to see
some of these linebackers and coverage Barrett Carter, Chris Paul,
guys I've talked about quite a bit, uh Bo, jeff
You know, you watch these guys cover in and they're

(01:52:00):
mostly covering running backs and they do a good job.
But the cover responsibilities for linebacker in college are generally
pretty different than they are in the NFL. And you know,
running backs aren't running that many routes in college, so
you get to see him against some more routes. You
get to see HM against guys that are truly specialized
in that we're not every college team has that guy.
So that's usually pretty telling to me from the linebackers, right,

(01:52:21):
is how do they look in the coverage drills.

Speaker 2 (01:52:23):
Yeah, Jeffrey Boss is an interesting player.

Speaker 1 (01:52:25):
But this a good lineback draft. You know, I'll give
you another all podium guy. Actually he was awesome, Johad Campbell.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
From alabab Because I would have forgotten.

Speaker 1 (01:52:33):
I'm also a big Jihog Tampbell fan, Like I really
like that player a lot too.

Speaker 2 (01:52:38):
And I like a lot of these linebackers are just
not like me.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
Well, you mentioned with and it's not but you mentioned
with Campbell, Johad Campbell that or you were mentioning her
like if Rabel wants the guys who are wired like him, Yeah,
Jehad Campbell, I think fits that. Listen Campbell Campbell, top
of the draft, sign me up.

Speaker 2 (01:52:53):
He's uh, he's one of those players that I think
is uh, you know, getting like knocked for certain things
in his film. Consistency, things like that, you know, play
in space and coverage. Like, I think he's a much
better player than some of the where I see the
ranges and the mock drafts and stuff going sometimes He's a.

Speaker 1 (01:53:10):
Guy that I wonder if the range is like if
it was ten years ago, yeah, and the nerds hadn't
devalued linebackers.

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
Yeah, he's had to get that shot in at the troupe,
just had to.

Speaker 1 (01:53:20):
He's a clear first round pick. Yeah, and now he's
like fringy first maybe second. To me, that's just the
devaluing of the position and nothing more.

Speaker 2 (01:53:28):
Okay, a couple of other guys, uh, just to mention
here in terms of the the drill tomorrow. Shamar Stewart
from Texas A and m is in my from everything
that you hear, Yeah, Shamar Stewart's about to put down
an insane, like Trayvon Walker esque combine. Okay, so he
is an absolute freak athlete and he's he's long, he's big,

(01:53:50):
and he's super charged. Right, so he's gonna put down
a great combine, and a lot of uh, you know experts,
you know, are predicting that it already kind of getting
ahead of it, that his combine is going to be
so good that all of a sudden, he's going to
be like a top ten pick, right, Like he's gonna
have that kind of freakish type of athleticism. The other
guy that I'm just interested in because like, you know,

(01:54:11):
big guy, move fast right, Yeah, Kenneth Grant from Michigan.

Speaker 1 (01:54:14):
So he's not getting nearly enough attention because everybody wants
talk about Mason Graham.

Speaker 2 (01:54:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Part of the reason Mason Graham looks so good is
Kenneth Grant playing next to him.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
Kenneth Grant from Michigan. I believe he was on was
on the freaks list, should be, Yeah, I from everything
that you hear and you see some of the pursuit
down the field and things like that that he has
on film where he chases guys down. He is gonna
have a ridiculous workout tomorrow and he's gonna be a really,

(01:54:43):
really freaky athlete.

Speaker 1 (01:54:45):
I'll put in. I always like watching the jumbo defensive tackles, right,
Dean Walker, Cam Jackson. Those have been my guys. See
what they do.

Speaker 2 (01:54:52):
So he's not as big, and I know he got
a rap, but he's not as big as Jordan Davis.
So it's not gonna be like downybody's Jordan Davis. It's
not gonna be that, you know, jaw dropping that that
guy that side. But he's a big, big boy and
he's gonna put up a great time. He's gonna run
really well shorten day of sub five, don't forget that.
So Kenneth Grant is my guy to watch other than

(01:55:13):
Shamar Stewart, But Kenneth Grant I just lasting on him.
He doesn't have the production that Mason Graham did, like
on the Ball production, but when you watch the tape,
he's he's doing a lot of dirty work, you know,
a lot of dirty work. He's a tough guy. To move.
He's really athletic, all right. So that does it here
today for this edition in Catch twenty two. We'll be

(01:55:33):
back in studio next week to recap all of this
stuff at the Combine and Free here in Indianapolis. We
gotta get you some shrimp cocktail.

Speaker 1 (01:55:41):
Yep, I know I've still done that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:43):
That's on the list. You can't leave India without some
shrimp cocktail. And I'm sure both of us are gonna
want one of these by the end of today. So
easy to drink, easy to enjoy. Bud Light, the official
beer sponsor of the New England Patriots. We'll see you
guys next Wednesday, back to our normal time in studio
well Atlets Stadium. But until then, have a good weekend. Bye.

Speaker 3 (01:56:03):
Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, google Play,
and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, Please rate
and review us. Listener comments and ratings help keep us
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Be sure to check Patriots dot com for more news
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty