Patriots Catch-22 2/5: Coaching Staff Updates, Senior Bowl Leftovers, Offseason News

Tune-in as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth discuss recent coaching staff rumors/hires, Senior Bowl leftovers and takeaways, and recent offseason news around the league.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it?
Joined us always by our bar.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bar.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm gonna have to have our listeners grade are our
read skills?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
You don't want to want You don't want that answer
I've seen in the comments. You don't want that answer.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I want to know.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Unless you want to be done with the responsibility of it.
You don't want that answer in the chat. Who's better
at the ad rads?

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I gotta redeem myself today. I'm back in studio and
I gotta be.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I don't know. I saw the comments last week.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I think the people decided.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I saw the YouTube comments last week.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
And this is an ongoing This is an ongoing thing.
It's not over. It's not over. It to seven game series.
That was just game one.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
So do I get a redemption shot for answering the phone?

Speaker 1 (00:55):
You know you were terrible at that. You're horrible at it.
You're done? Evan Lazar, Alex Bark Patriots Catch twenty two.
Here with you for the next couple of hours. Back
in studio, back from the Senior Bowl. Had a really
fun trip down there to Mobile. We'll talk a little
bit of Senior Bowl leftovers today. I am sure a draft.
I know all you guys want to want to chat

(01:16):
with us about that I'm doing. I'm getting I'm getting
some headway with my draft prep right now. Between the
Senior Bowl and the Combine, it's usually a little bit
of a lull from a news perspective with the team,
and I really try to hammer the top fifty or
so so that I'm set up for the Combine in
a good spot. And I feel like I'm starting to

(01:37):
make some headway.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
So I've got some recncy bias takes, bias players.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
I've got some you know, just some draft takes that
in my mind. But I do want to talk a
little bit off the top here about some of the
coaching staff updates. We didn't talk about it last week
because we focused on the Senior Bowl, but a lot
of you know, Thomas Brown, Doug Moron, Todd Downing like
these high have happened either when I was in Mobile

(02:02):
or over the last week or so. So we'll get
to that. And I also have to get something off
my chest about this Super Bowl week, and I will
get to that here in a second as well, but
before we do, Hey, Patriots fans, if you want to
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website for deals from the official vehicle of the New

(02:24):
England Patriots, Toyota Let's go places and easy to drink,
easy to enjoy, but like the official beer sponsor of
the New England Patriots. Okay, So can I get this
off my chest real quick about the Super Bowl? And
you don't have to partake, because I'm gonna take a
little subtle jab at your station maybe in this rant.
But I just got to say, and this is not

(02:46):
about me being a butt hurt Patriots fan, that the
Chiefs are getting all these flowers this week. They're in
the Super Bowl, They're a dynasty. They deserve their flowers.
I just gotta be honest. I do not find it
at all entertaining to discuss Patriots Chiefs, Belichick, Reid, Kelsey, Gronk, Mahomes,

(03:08):
Brady and comparing the dynasties over and over and over
and over again. We did it yesterday on our show,
So it's not just your station, it's everywhere and right
now in this Super Bowl week, and just as a consumer,
I just don't think that it's entertaining. Like I don't
find any real entertainment value from comparing these two dynasties.

(03:29):
I don't understand why we have to constantly do it.
It's nauseating. There's other things to talk about in this
town right now. The Patriots offseason is in full swing.
They have a new head coach, They have a lot
to do roster wise, they have a high draft pick,
they have a lot of cap space and free agency.
The Celtics and the Calves played a great basketball game
last night. The Bruins I have no idea what's going

(03:51):
on with them in terms of which direction they're going
to go in, But they keep on sucking me back
in with games like last night and then throwing me
back out because they'll we lose again tonight with the
way that they're going.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
But don't forget the right Sox were in like week
whatever of the.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, oh yeah sure, and pictures and catchers as soon.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right, it's probably like in a week or two.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
You remember when like truck Day used to be like
a mask earlier this week. Yeah, I know it doesn't
matter anymore. My whole point about though, with the Chiefs
in the we don't have to do this constant comparison thing.
We don't. We don't have to do it, and I
feel like we do it for the main reason of
just trolling Patriots fans, because you know that Patriots fans

(04:32):
are just gonna get sensitive about it, and then you
just start trolling them about it, and you're trying to
incite that side of things, because in reality, it doesn't matter.
It's not gonna take away from either team. Whether you
think the Patriots run was better or the current Chiefs
run is better, it doesn't take away from either team.
It's just no one's gonna move. Everyone's going to have

(04:52):
their take on it. I just I don't understand why
it's such a big topic. I don't.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I mean, look, even if the Chiefs do, Mahomes
would be at four, which is just over halfway to Brady.
So all right, you're just coming out of the locker room,
you know, the Patriots, and this is what gets lost
in the Mahomes Brady stuff. It's what gets lost in
the Patriots Chiefs stuff. Is sustainability and his longevity And
I know, oh longevity, merchant. You realize how hard it

(05:17):
is to have a longevity like career in the NFL.
I don't think people understand how difficult that is. So
even if the Chiefs win, like, congratulations, you matched pick one,
you matched oh one to four, you matched fourteenth to
nineteen or fourteen to eighteen, you matched one of those.
So you've got a whole other half assed the dynasty
to go right. So you know, but to your point,

(05:39):
what else are you talking about from this game? What
else are you gonna talk about? Like we did? But
we just did this? What we just did Chiefs Eagles
two years ago?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, well that but that was my whole take about
the game in general, is that I just thought this
was the worst possible outcome. It was, it absolutely was,
But I just think that again, it just we keep
on having to come back to this comparison between the
Chiefs and the Patriots, and I just don't I don't
find it compelling, Like I don't, I don't find it compelling.
I think that there's really it's premature in a lot

(06:09):
of ways, like you just mentioned, but it's also just
significantly different. Like it's a different way, it's a different approach.
Like you have a coach and Andy Reid who is
a offensive minded players coach by most accounts, versus Bill Belichick,
who is the total antithesis of that. I just I
don't understand it. I think it's it's not Chiefs Catch

(06:30):
twenty two, right, I think I all have some Chiefs
sun filtered. It's not the ninety eight four five the
sports of the home of the Kansas City Chiefs, right, Like,
we got to move on. We all have to move
on and stop stop talking so much about the Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
That's the reality. It looks like, I'll give him this.
If you're there, you're getting talked about, and they're there,
and that's why we all have Chiefs fatigue because they
keep being there. Your boy Josh Allen could have prevented this.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
He didn't know I wanted him.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Lamar Jackson had his chance to prevent this. Mark Andrews
dropped that, but well, I guess he turned ball of
a couple times too. But like you know, the Bengals
could have prevented this. They didn't lose to the Patriots
in Week one. Right, everybody's had their chances. Maybe the
Patriots are in the mix next year, hopefully they're in
the mix of teams that can prevent this. I think
they're probably still a year or two away from that overall,
But like until somebody beats them, it's gonna keep being

(07:16):
a thing. So somebody's gotta beat these guys already got it.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
It's not even about the Chiefs still, Like I don't
even care, Like it's not I'm not sensitive about the
Chiefs being good. Like, no, I understand what this is
what people talk. I don't think it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, I think people felt this way about the Patriots,
Like the Patriots go back to Super Bowl and it's, oh,
we're gonna do Brady and Belichick Legacy talk again for
a week. Like I get it. I like you if
you're there that much. There's the fatigue that the Warriors.
We were all fatigued with the Warriors because they were
back there every year, and it's just that's what happens.
Felger did this. I don't know if you heard this
part of it yesterday, but I thought it was an

(07:50):
interesting conversation. Are dynasties good for sports? So?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
And Felger's think a villain is good for sports.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
A villain is good for sports with the villain and
does not equal with dynasty. And there's a tipping point there,
and I think they are and they aren't. I don't
think you can make a blanket statement about it, but
it's an interesting case that if you have one team
dominate the league for an extended period of time, is
that good or bad? You always hear this with like
yukon women's basketball, right, we heard it with the Patriots

(08:18):
for years, with the Patriots good for the sport? What
they were doing, what the Warriors were doing, Were they
good for the sport? You hear that with these teams,
and I think there is a tipping point where you
stop becoming a villain and there becomes a fatigue to it.
And it's you know, that's not to say I don't
like that the Patriots dynasty happened. I obviously loved it.
But that to me is the more interesting conversation this week.

(08:39):
Are the Chiefs good for the NFL? Like three years
and years, is Alabama football good for college football? And
you had all these people that were turned off by
college football because the same teams every year, and you
look at what happened this year when you've got new teams,
and it was a very exciting season. So that's the
more interesting conversation to me this week, you know, and
if the Chiefs lose, maybe that kind of changes it.
But like is it good and it's you don't want

(09:01):
teams to just be alternating good and bad, good and bad.
You want some sustained success because you want people to
be familiar with the elite teams. But I do think
there's a tipping point where again that fatigue kicks in.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, all right, we spent nine minutes on this. That
was nine more minutes than I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
We are a football show, super Bowl, we should.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
I just keep coming back to the same thing, and
I'll throw a little straight at your show, at your station,
which I listened to your your station a lot, Like
I'm a fan of your station, so this isn't me
coming at it like screw sports radio. I love it.
I listened to it all day in the car. But
the thing that I'm I come back to is as
in the car driving home from here yesterday, for forty

(09:41):
five minutes, they spend forty minutes talking Chiefs Patriots dynasty comparison,
I can't do it. I just I can't do it.
I can't do it. Well, yeah, if we wrap it
up all.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because you didn't really answer it, I'm gonna throw question
Felger's question back at you. Yeah, our dynasty is good
for sports, our dynasty for like leagues.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I would say yes, because greatness is good. I think
if there's too much parody, then it brings how good
really are these teams down?

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Can't be great without being a dynasty.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
It depends on your definition. I guess of dynasty, but
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I would say three or more championships in a five
year span.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Okay, so I disagree with with that. I suppose maybe
a little bit, because I think you can be I
don't know if I would necessarily call it a dynasty.
But like, if you win multiple titles in like a decade, right,
like you're still a great team of that decade, is
that a dynasty? Like it could be broken up.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think what I'm saying, I think you can be
great without being a dynasty. There have been great teams
that weren't dynasties, like I think one of the most
you know, look at the two thousand Ravens, and that
defense was great. I know that shortcoms on offense, that
defense was great. That team was a dynasty, and that's
still held up as an example of greatness, right, or
the you know who are some of the other teams
like a Super Bowl or even just went and kind

(11:01):
of disappeared. They lost. But the twenty fifteen Panthers, that
was a great football team. They had Cam Newton who
had one of the best quarterback seasons in recent memory.
Greg Olsen was awesome that year. That defense was amazing.
That was a great football team. Sure, obviously it was
not a dynasty. They didn't even win one, but you
can people will call that team great and they should.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Were they great?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
I'm trying to think of a better example.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
I don't know. I think that there are a lot
of teams that were like that. I have a great team.
That's not a dynasty. To me, it is like the
greatest show on turf. Right, They won one super.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
That's true, they came up short. That's a better example
than I went to the Panthers.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
They went to a second one. Obviously, as we know
very well. Yeah, they were in a dynasty in but
they're one of the best teams of all time.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
All right, how I got another one for you? Yeah,
Kyle Shanahan forty nine ers.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
No, they haven't won anything yet, so you.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Wouldn't say that's a great team.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Uh. I think they've had great teams, but they haven't won.
So there's they're not.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
So this might like you can be great. You can
be great without being a dynasty. You can be great
like and so I yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Might as swayed me, but that's you. You you tricked
me there.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
I know I had to.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I had to say they were.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Great, honestly, honestly, greatest show on turf is a is
a perfect example of this. Who is who is the
greatest show on turf?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Really?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Haven't had a team like that that like kind of
hung around briefly. It was amazing for a short period
of time. Yeah, I don't know who would that be.
I mean, I get maybe if the Eagles lose this
one and then kind of fall off, but I don't
think they're gonna fall off, Like they have a ton
of talent.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
It depends on how you view the Eagles in terms
of their regimes. Right, because Doug Peterson was the coach
of this team that won the Super Bowl, it was
Carson Wentz and Nick Foles that were the quarterbacks. So
the quarterback and the head coach for this iteration of
the Howie Roseman Eagles has is different, but it's still
Howie Roseman running the show. I would say, like a
lot of the players are still the super Bowl appearances

(12:59):
in a ears, like even if they win this one,
three super Bowl appearances in eight years, you win too.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Is that a dynasty? Know? Is that a great run? Yes? Absolutely? Yeah,
So that's what's good, Like, that's what's good. You want
a bunch of teams like that. Yeah, But I think
when you get to the Chiefs or again to go
back to the Warriors or the you know, Alabama football,
Yukon women's basketball, like that's where I think you maybe
start to lose people because there is an element of

(13:27):
all right, we know what happens. There's an element of predictability.
And not to take anything away from anybody who's a
part of those teams, like like the Patriots, Like again,
I love that it happened as a Patriots fan. The
people were part of those teams be proud of it.
They should not feel like they let the sport down.
But it's just it's an interesting just juxtaposition.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
So the one thing that I always look at in
the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Is, oh, from the YouTube comments, Legion to Boom Seahawks
is exactly the team we were looking for.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Sure what I They're very similar to the Greatest Show
on Yeah, exactly one one went to another didn't win,
probably the last team that The what I always look
at with the Super Bowl matchup is the how did
we get here? And what can we learn from it? Yep,
in terms of roster building and team building, because that's
what we all all both of us nerd out about

(14:13):
twenty four to seven. So the Chiefs model is, in
my opinion, you can't expect to replicate because you have
the greatest, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all Like
the Patriots, We're we're not gonna luck into Patrick Mahomes, right,
That's just not gonna happen. Drake may might be great,
he's not gonna be Patrick Mahomes. He's not gonna be

(14:34):
Tom Brady, right, So do you have that element of
it with the Chiefs. With the Eagles, I look at
a much more replicable model of how they've done this,
and I think Howie Roseman is one of the best
general managers in sports right now because of the way
that he has his tentacles on every single avenue of

(14:55):
roster building, every single way of finding talent. Trades, free agency, draft, undrafted,
free agency, like they do it all in Philadelphia. They
traded for a J. Brown, They drafted blue chip players
at the top of the draft from big time programs,
you know, Georgia Alabama with DeVante Smith, free agency with

(15:17):
sa Kwon Barkley. Right like, they went out and they added, added,
added in all avenues around a good quarterback. But I
wouldn't call Jalen Hurts a great quarterback, right He's a
good He's a good quarterback, and he's good in that
offense and what they ask him to do. And in
a lot of ways. You know, we always talk about
the net neutral quarterback or making it easier on the

(15:38):
quarterback in general. I know people hate that term, the
net neutral quarterback when we use that one, but the
just making it easier on the quarterback in general. And
I look at what Philadelphia has done, and I think
they've done a masterclass of that. Excellent Hurts, excellent building
the offensive line. Now, a lot of that pre dates
Jalen Hurts. You know, Lane Johnson was there before Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Remember, they didn't go through a period where they were
in the quarterback carousel. They thought they had their franchise guy.
They drafted Jalen Hurts as a plan B. Franchise guy
didn't work out. So they were always building it around
like there was no in between period. There was no
what for the Patriots would be like twenty to twenty
twenty three.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right, So, Lane Johnson's a future Hall of Famer in
my book. He is a fourth overall pick I think
in his draft, but that was quite a bit of go.
Jordan Mylotta is really the find. You know. He's a
former rugby player that converts to NFL football and was
a sixth or seventh round pick, late day three guy, Yeah,
something like that because of his Was he the pathway player?

(16:41):
I don't think so. I think he was a draft pick.
I think he was drafting the seventh round. I want
to say so. Jordan Mylott is now one of the
best left tackles.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
In seventh round, but he was a pathway player.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Okay, I didn't know you could be both seventh round pick.
Turns out to be the best left tackle in football.
Are one of the best, probably not the best, but
top five. Yeah, at the position that that right there
is fantastic. Look at their center position. Jason kelce retires,
one of the best centers of our era. Yep, and
uh and they handed over to Cam Jurgens, who is

(17:12):
really good too. Not Jason Kelcey, but he good player.
They haven't really missed a beat there. Uh. So you
look at the way that they've built their offensive line,
McKay Beckton, you know, taking a flyer on McKay Beckton,
putting him at guard instead of tackle. That's really worked
out for them. That that's really paid dividends. Uh. Saquon
Barkley at running back, free agency, signing AJ Brown a trade,

(17:33):
Dallas Goddard, second round pick, DeVante Smith first round pick.
That offense and the way that offense is built is
the mechano me, like, that's the that's the dream is
you have all great protection, great blocking, great running back,
great skill players all around.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
The dream for you is a great running back. Can
we clip that so I have it?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Well? The point is is that really, what does Jalen
Hurts have to do? And I don't mean that he
doesn't do anything. But I'm just saying that's about as
good of a situation as any quarterback could be put in it.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
It's not so much what does he have to do,
but it's paint by number, so he doesn't have to
overextend himself right right. The whole thing. Remember with Drake
May this year, me saying, like his whole game, it
felt like he was playing with an inner monologue of fine,
I guess I'll do it myself. Yes, where when you
have to do that constantly, bad things are gonna happen. Yeah,

(18:24):
So Jalen Hurts can for lack of a better word,
he can almost relax. Yeah, he can just go out
there and kind of let loose and he doesn't have
so much to worry about because you know, his clock's
not getting sped up, he knows the receivers are in
the right spot. He knows that you know, they can
go to the run game if they need to do it.
And it just takes so much off his mind mentally

(18:45):
and physically. He's not taking a bunch of hits behind
that line that it allows him to play a lot
more freely.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
And allows him to hit the easy button a lot
in terms of scheme and what they do. You know,
they do a lot of early down RPO stuff. They
do a lot of zone read and things like that,
where Jalen Hurts has just put in these situations where
he has a lot of answers and puts the defense
in a lot of schematic binds and really makes it
easy for the quarterback. When you have a really good

(19:11):
play action passing game, a really good RPO package for
a quarterback like Jalen Hurts, not a lot of the
game gets put on him in obvious dropback situations where
it's like third and eight and he's got to make
a play. Ye you know, you maybe can whittle that
down to four or five plays a game where it's
truly on his shoulders to go out there and make

(19:31):
a play. And then obviously it helps when you have
aj Brown and DeVante Smith on the outside and God
Hear too to help him with all that stuff. But
I see with the Eagles, and you watch them in
the NFC Championship game too, how much they rpo that
defense to death and they are just able to really
just let Jalen Hurts kind of be a point guard,

(19:51):
like he's just kind of a sidecar to what they're
really doing offensively, and in a lot of ways, I
would say Drake May has a higher ceiling than Jalen
Hurts as a passer. I think Drake May has more
physical talent in terms of his throwing ability, So maybe
he doesn't need all that help. But I just why not, right, Like,

(20:11):
why not build the offense around that and why not
have that much help. It's obviously takes a while to
build out, but I think the way the Eagles do it,
the way that they allocate their resources, the way they
spend over the cap, the way that they bring in
guys in all avenues, I think if you're trying to
model yourself after one of these franchises, it's absolutely the

(20:33):
Philadelphia Eagles. And what Howie Roseman's done with Dad in mind,
I want to segue to the coaching staff a little
bit and talk some patriots. We'll take some emails, Oh, take.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Some talk about this tremendous defense they've built Phillies.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, now, I'm not that interested.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
The defense is unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's good defense. I don't know if it's unbelievable, it's
good defense.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
That front's awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Man, come on, it's good front. They've done a nice
job and obviously Vig Fangio has really put it all
together for them. I would say that, you know, some
of the bigger players that have stood out to me
from the Eagles though, is in their back end. You know,
Quinjon Mitchell has been an awesome rookie for them. Cooper
dejen a guy that all of us liked a lot
in the draft, has been very very good. And Zach Bond,

(21:15):
who's going to be a free agent, has really put
it all together in terms of the middle of the
field for them at linebacker. You know, can cover, can
cover a lot of space from that linebacker position, whether
it's dropping back in coverage or it's going sideline to
sideline against the run. And obviously they have the guys
up front, but they always kind of had the guys
up front. To me, Yeah, they always had had good

(21:36):
defensive lines in Philadelphia, even going back to the when
the Patriots played them in the Super Bowl in twenty eighteen.
But they've now evolved, I think, to having a much
stronger secondary, so that yeah, they have a great well.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
I guess my point is, you know, you went, you
broke down how they built the offense. Gadian Mitchell first
round pick, Jalen Carter first round pick. But you have
you know Zach Bond, who was a fine free agent.
You know you have to It's that same thing with
Josh Sweat was kind of a fine Where did he
get He was like, what third fourth round pick?

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I have to look at? I always get him in
Montese Sweat confused.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Montes first round pick. Check that. But it's like, by
the way, Josh Sweat free agent, you're not gonna get you.
There needs to be a balance. You can't build the
entire thing through splash and free agency. You can't build
a fourth round pick eighteen. So he's been around for
a while well because draft and develop. Yeah, and I
know people probably don't want to hear that phrase as

(22:31):
it relates to the Patriots, but they were able to
hit on first round picks immediately. They were able to
get mid round guys to grow into their roles. They
were able to get big name free agents to step
in and make plays, and they were able to find
guys in free agency too. That's how you're gonna do it.
So as we go through this offseason and talk about
like you know, if the Patriots are gonna really accelerate this,
It's not just gonna be all right. We signed Josh

(22:52):
Sweat and Tech McMillan free agency, and we drafted you know,
Will Carter and Jayan Higgins at the top of the draft. Right,
you are going to have to find guys in free
agency in the draft. That shouldn't be your plan. You're
playing going in shouldn't be all right, We're gonna get
all these sleepers. But like, you have to be able
to do that. Belichick was amazing at that. Guys like

(23:12):
Kavin Noy's a trade but I'd consider him like a fine, right, Yeah,
Vin Noy was a guy that was a fine. Getting
Wes Welker in the nature they did was a fine.
Guys like that, You're you're still going to need to
be able to do that in order to really hit
that apex. If you want to speed this thing up,
and you have to be able to focus on both
sides of the ball. You can't just hammer offense. You

(23:33):
can't just hammer defense. There needs to be a balance,
and you hope you get guys, you know, with premium
assets that can carry their side and give you that
time to spread the assets out more.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
And I also think at this point with the Eagles too,
you get to a point where you're such a well
oiled machine, and we know this with the Patriots as well,
that now they can take some risks, like Jalen Carter
was a risk right where they especially where they drafted him.
You know, he felt these probably should have been the
number one overall pick in his draft, and he fell
because the off field stuff. But that was a risk
like that could have gone either way, and if you

(24:04):
don't have the infrastructure to support that kind of player,
then that could go the bad way, right like that,
and maybe he's you know, not on the team anymore
because he gets into another situation and now he's one
of the best defensive tackles in the league, and that
goes a long way too. With some of these flyers
that teams like the Eagles can afford to take, I

(24:24):
would also put in a much different way, but in
a similar category, like paying a running back like Sakwon
Barkley is a luxury item, and you can do that
when you're a team like the Eagles. When we talk
about the Patriots moving forward, like this is why I
won't even entertain a running back. When we discuss running
backs like Ashon Dentji, I won't entertain it because you

(24:45):
can't be taking luxury items when you're the Patriots. You
need to be taking players that are foundational elements of
this team. Dropping Sakwon Barley because you've made fun of
me for saying great running back earlier. Dropping Saquon Barkley
into that team is how you maximize a great running back.
That's how you truly have a great running back. Makes sense? Well,

(25:07):
I Missian McCaffrey with San Francisco forty nine ers like
it's the same situation.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Also meant that you acknowledging that running backs can be
great instead of saying they're all interchangeable.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I think they can be great, but I don't think
they move the needle unless they're put into situations like
McCaffrey and San Francisco, Barkley with the Eagles, I mean, right,
another good one, Derek Henry with the Ravens. And that
is where I feel like the league is caught up
in understanding they don't have zero value, but they just

(25:35):
have to be put in situations where they can make
an impact, like like the examples that be just named
all right, let's talk a little coaching staff and then
I will open it up to your phones eight five five,
pats five hundred. We got plenty of emails coming in
as well at podcasts at Patriots dot com. I want
to start with Thomas Brown. I think you know, and

(25:58):
again I should put this out there. This is all
reportedly that none of this is official, All these titles
or reports, none of it's official yet with the coordinators,
just the coordinators, So we're all going off of reports
here in terms of titles. But it sounds like Thomas Brown,
who is the interim coach for the Bears last year,
interim play caller for the Bears last year as well

(26:19):
midway through the season taking over there in Chicago, has
been an offensive coordinator, has been an assistant head coach,
has been an interim head coach, is going to be
the past game coordinator and tight ends coach for the
Patriots under Josh McDaniels and Mike Rable on the offensive
side of the ball. What I'm interested about with this
Thomas Brown higher is which tree of West Coast the

(26:43):
offense that he's been involved in is he tapping into.
Is he trying to bring Shanahan McVay elements from his
RAMS days with Sean McVay, Or is he trying to
bring Frank Reich Andy Reid elements from his time in
Carolina with Frank Reich. There's only one year barely with
Frank Reig. I don't even think he made it the
full season right in Carolina Thomas Brown, so I don't

(27:06):
know how much experience he really has in that. But
the one element that I look at with Thomas Brown
that I'm hoping for is that he is going to
bring some of those Kansas City, Philadelphia Frank like Andy
Reid elements to this offense. Because I do think that
Drake May is at his best in the gun I
don't think he's at his real comfort level as an

(27:30):
under center quarterback. When you talk about a lot of
the elements that you bring in from a Shanahan West
Coast offense, you're talking a lot of under center elements,
you know, outside zone boogleg motion, play action, that kind
of stuff. I would like to see a lot more of,
like the Philadelphia Kansas City version of RPO, you know,

(27:51):
gun run, that sort of thing with the motion and
window dressing than the McVeigh offense necessarily, and I am
hoping that maybe that's where Thomas Brown comes in with
Josh McDaniels. And we've heard a lot of Josh mcdaniels's
offense is gonna bow all the doors all of our
socks off here with all the new innovations and things

(28:12):
like that. But what are your thoughts on Thomas Brown
and what he's gonna bring to the table here, So
just you.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Know, to what you said, I based on the other
people they've hired and talked to, doesn't it seem like
it's going to be the Frank rag Andy Reid direction
of things. So, yeah, the report right now is that
Thomas Brown's gonna be the pass game coordinator. Yeah, And
so I wonder if and I like that they're doing that.
He's the first, you know, pass or run game cordinator
in the history of the Patriots. They've never done that before.

(28:40):
If he's going to be the one kind of helping
to tie the traditional McDade like tie that stuff to
the traditional McDaniel stuff, and if he's going to kind
of end up being we use this term a couple
of weeks ago, that translator right for for Drake may
to help tie the two together. So yeah, I think
he's a good hire. I think my big reaction was, like,

(29:01):
he has an impressive resume, and obviously the last few
places he's been it hasn't worked out. But by all
accounts that was it didn't work out, Like it wasn't
because of him that it didn't work out, right, So
this is a guy that you would think is gonna
have another shot at being a coordinator soon and for
for all we talked about when we did the Mike
Rabel Ben Johnson thing about you know, you don't want

(29:23):
a coordinator that's gonna jump ship right away. You want
you know, and McDaniels gives you that stability. The flip
side of that is when you have a coordinator that's
kind of a roadblock, it can be harder to hire
positional coaches because they know there's no room to move
up internally and you can always go elsewhere and get
a new job at who likes to move right there?
You know there's room to move up internally. So to

(29:45):
get a guy like Thomas Brown, who has that runway
ahead of him, and it's not down the road, it's
right there, has that runaway ahead of him, to get
him to come here. With Josh McDaniels in place, I
think speaks very strongly to Mike Vrabel's program. It tells
you that this is a program what he's selling, whatever
it is he's saying in these meetings that guys want,

(30:06):
and I think to Drake it speaks to Drake may
Two like guys want to be here. Guys feel like
this is a good situation and even if that immediate
advancement isn't in front of them internally, they still feel
like this is the right place for them to be.
So I think being able to hire a guy like
Thomas Brown and as impressive as Thomas Brown is for
who he is and his resume and all of that,

(30:27):
I think speaks to what Mike Grabil is pitching and
coaches and players are different. But is that something that's
maybe indicative of what's ahead and free agency?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, it definitely feels a little bit like Thomas Brown
is overqualified for the Jets, That's.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
But he's here but pass reportedly, Yeah, pass game coordinator
and tight ends coach though, is a pathway to offensive coordinator.
Tommy Reaves had that title with the Cleveland Browns last
year and now he's their offensive But it's not.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
You know, pending something crazy that's he's not going to
be able to do that here, correct.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
But he's going to interview I would think next cycle,
next year, he'll have interviews for offensive coordinator jobs. And
this title keeps him in that pipeline, whether it's here
or it's elsewhere. He's gonna his name is going to
continue to be in that pipeline. But what I go
back to again, just schematically with all this, because he
is going to be the past game coordinator, is can

(31:19):
they bring in some of those Kansas City Chief Philadelphia
elements to this offense and get some of that stuff
in here?

Speaker 2 (31:27):
For say, RPOs, you're talking about RPOs?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, why why does it matter because you.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Got all excited about RPOs? What was it last week
two weeks ago?

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Love RPOs?

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, Drake?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I just I think the biggest reason why I liked
him for Drake May is just watching teams like Kansas City,
watching teams like Philadelphia, watching teams like Buffalo. It always
puts the defense in a position where they have to
guard six guys, right, they have to guard the five
skill players and they have to guard the quarterback. So
you're putting the defense in this position where now all

(32:01):
of a sudden, everybody on the field that's eligible to
touch the football is a threat. And that is really
intriguing to me. I understand that it's not it's not
a cure all. They're not gonna all of a sudden
start running a bunch of RPOs and be the number
one offense in the league, right, That's not what I'm
getting at. But until they start to really leverage Drake

(32:21):
May's athletic ability, whether that's moving pockets, whether that's RPO,
whether that's readoption, whatever the case may be. And I
get to I hear like a lot of pushback on
this about keeping him healthy, and my rebuttal to that
is is this is how he's got to play like
if he he's got to figure out a way to
keep himself healthy. That's ultimately what it comes down to,

(32:42):
because if you take away this element of his skill set,
then he's playing left handed, like he's playing with one
hand tied behind his back. So in order for him
to be great, I do think that he's got to
have these types of elements within an offense. That doesn't
mean you have to turn him into Cam Newton and
turn him into a battering ram and have him run
inside the tackles ten times a game. You have the

(33:03):
Joe Milton package for that, sure, but you just you
have to you have to be cognizant of what you're
calling and in terms of that kind of stuff. But again,
I go back to that Eagles, this Eagles offense. Go
watch the Eagles in the NFC Championship game, or go
watch the Eagles what we're going to see on Sunday
in the Super Bowl, and watch, like, how many real
hits Jalen Hurts takes on these types of schemes. I'm

(33:26):
not talking about hits in the pocket, you know, when
he's under pressure, but real hits in terms of running
the football. In terms of running these type of schemes,
it's not as many as you think. So as long
as Drake May is cognizant of it, and they're cognizant
of how they're where they're putting him into those types
of situations, then they'll be all right. I in a

(33:47):
lot of ways, I think it's better than having him
just run around scrambling like he did at times last
year because it's it's planned right, It's it's coordinated. There's
a scheme to it of where he's going to be
going and what direction is going to be going in.
So I think that's big, and I just I keep
coming back to how to you maximize his skill set?

(34:07):
The only way to maximize his skill set is to
use them like all these quarterbacks. Use them like Hurts,
use them like Allen, use them like Mahomes.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Like.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
If you don't do those types of things, I just
don't think you're going to get the most out of
the players. So it's on everybody to keep them healthy.
But I think you have to if you're really going
to get this offense going where it needs to go.
Next one Doug Maroon offensive line coach. It sounds like
gonna be his title, or at least that it's going
to be where most of his involvement's going to be in.

(34:35):
I know there are some mixed reviews from his last
couple stops Alabama, New Orleans with the Saints. Wasn't great
in either one of those stops, But this is another
veteran coach that's been around football for one hundred years,
that's coached offensive line for a very, very long time.
So this isn't going to be a guy that's new
to the gig. This is not Scott Peters who's never

(34:57):
coached an offensive line room before, experience coach. I understand
that maybe his track record recently is spotty, but everything
that I've heard about Doug Moron is overwhelmingly positive about
his ball knowledge. Just his knowledge of the game is
knowledge of offensive line play and all those types of things.
And I don't think it's a small thing that how

(35:18):
dealing is also coming with him who is coaching with
the Titans, with Rabel, who's also been a head offensive
line coach. So you're essentially going to have two guys
in that room now that have both run the room before.
So I feel like that's really a lot of brain
power to coach the offensive line. And there is a
tie there with Josh McDaniels with you know, through Bill

(35:40):
O'Brien with Doug Moroon, and that's big in this offense.
You have to have the coordinator and the offensive line
coach in unison in sync because a lot of this
offense is this is how we're going to design the
game plan, how are we going to block it up?
And the coordinator and McDaniels is going to rely a
lot on Doug moroone to help him with the schematics

(36:02):
of how they're gonna block things and all that kind
of stuff. So it's an important relationship. I think that's
the most important in my mind in this system especially,
is offensive coordinator an offensive line coach.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah, and I think he's a good higher.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Look.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
I think Peters did a good job last year, but Marone,
like you said, he's experienced. He can't have a ton
of talent to work with the New Orleans that last stop,
like it's gonna come down to if they don't give
him any talent, it's not gonna look good, just like
it did with Peters. But as a guy that's been
around a long time, he's done it in the track
record speaks for itself. So I thought that was a
good hire. We'll see if like you had said, you know,

(36:37):
is he gonna be the offensive line coach, is gonna
be a consultant working with the offensive lineman something like that.
We'll see, but we know he can do it. They
just got to get him the talent to work with.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah. Yeah, I come back to with him. I think
that Doug Moroon is probably going to be more big
picture schematic x's and o's again, and this is the
game plan, this is the opponent, these are the runs
we want to put in, These are the past plays
we want to put in. How are we going to
block these things? I think that's where Doug Moron's expertise

(37:10):
comes in. Jason Hodling is gonna probably be the assistant
offensive line coach, but might be the offensive line coach
with Doug Moron as like a senior assistant. We'll see
how that all shakes out. He to me is going
to be the technique guy, like I think he's going
to be the guy that's going to be trading up
Will Campbell or is going to be training up Arianta
or Soi or whoever ends up being the pick for

(37:32):
the Patriots and Cayden Wallace and the leftovers from last year.
Like those guys, I feel like from a technique standpoint,
are going to more work with Howdling and Doug Moron
is going to be more in terms of the big
picture overseer. And I think the similar thing with the
wide receivers coach Todd Downing is the reported higher for
wide receivers coach. I have some reservations about this one.

(37:54):
I think you do too. Yeah, this is probably my
least favorite hire of the entire staff so far, with
doubting it's not necessarily because of his reputation as a
play caller, because I don't really care because he's not
going to call plays. In fact, I think he's probably
at best third in line to call plays if God forbid,
the worst case scenario happens, I would assume that Thomas

(38:15):
Brown would be.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
I mean, he has a coordinator title, he should be.
I also wonder if even Doug Moron would be out
of him.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, So I'm not too concerned about him touching that
aspect of it. What I am concerned about is his
lack of experience coaching wide receivers specifically and just in general.
They have really struggled with the development of that position,
not just the mental development, but also in a lot
of ways physical development as well. So a guy that's

(38:41):
never coached wide receivers before is now going to come
in here and he's going to have Jalen Polk, He's
maybe as Javon Baker, depending on if he makes a team.
He's probably going to have a draft pick that they
use a pretty high draft pick on a wide receiver
as well. My expected vision with Todd Downing McDaniels' offense

(39:02):
is very conceptual. They run a system that has a
lot of conversions. There's a lot of options, there's a
lot of sightedjusts and reads and things like that that
are involved in this route tree. And then there's also
a lot of concepts, Like you know, you have to
know who the what the other guys in the concept
are doing. Everything has sort of a domino effect on
each other. It's not just go run a nine route, right,

(39:25):
you have to understand what the guy next to you
is doing. My guess is that Downing, with his coordinator experience,
is probably coming in to teach the concepts of the
system and teach the big picture kind of like we
were just talking about with Doug Morone. And maybe there's
another shoot a drop in terms of a hire that
has the technique expertise the Taekwon Underwood type higher, right,

(39:46):
is it Wes Welker? I would love that. I don't
know if Wes Welker needs to take a demotion of
that magnitude going from a wide receivers coach with Miami
to now basically an assistant wide receivers coach, But I
would like to still see them bring in somebody that
has an expertise in technique fundamentals at the wide receiver position, releases,

(40:07):
top of the route, catch point, all that kind of stuff,
and then allow Todd down and to kind of run
the room.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, I'm with you right there. Like, this is a
team that has struggled with wide receiver development for a
long time. It's been quite the roadblock, So you'd hope
that they get somebody with experience in talent development. Downing
teaching the offense makes sense, but you need a player
developer in the building working with those guys, especially if

(40:35):
you play on taking a wide receiver high in the draft.
I've said this, and this higher kind of reinforces it
for me. As things stand right now, I don't know
that I want them to take a receiver in the
top one hundred because I just don't know that the
pieces are in place to bring that guy along. It
doesn't mean they don't need a receiver. They absolutely do,
but it has to be in the veteran market. It
has to be a guy that has already developed has

(40:55):
proven himself in the league can come in on Day
one and be ready to go. And there's not a
receiver in this draft that's going to be able to
do that, even Ted McMillan or Travis Hunter. So like
if they were to add like a Wes Welker as
an assistant, that changes it a little bit for me.
But they need somebody who can who has experienced developing

(41:16):
players at that position. They've kind of used that coach
through multiple head coaches here now in different iterations as
sort of a schematic guy. That's not a coach where
you want a schematic guy for where this team is
at right now. You need a teacher, and they they've
got to find somebody to be that assistant who can
be that guy.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
It's a good point really with McDaniel's going back, you
had Mick Lombardi, had Chad O'Shea. You had to your
point they had schematic guys in that role.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Remember was it Nick at one point?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Maybe going back aways? And Joe Judge was there.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
For I know Joe Judge while being the special teams
coordinator made no sense.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Michail Harry's rookie season. I don't Casario, I might have been.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
That's they had some fun office guy who was like
also the wide receivers coach for a season, So yeah,
it was Nick Cassario in two thousand and seven while
he was mac Oys. But yeah, I think there was
one other job, might be forgetting better So.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, but you're right, it is notoriously been eschematic coach,
like a guy that's coming in to coach the x's
and o's of the passing game. Almost they almost used
that role judge by the way, Yeah, you're almost used
that role in a lot of ways, like as like
a pass game coordinator, right, And they never gave that
official title out like you mentioned, but in a lot

(42:31):
of ways, that was what the wide receivers coach was here,
especially with Chad O'Shea, who was basically their red zone coordinator,
like he did a lot of the red zone work
when he was in New England. So I think they
can kind of ran into a little bit of some
roadblocks with some of these hires. Some of the guys
that were McDaniel's guys are under contract with other teams,

(42:53):
and I think that that did potentially add some kind
of roadblocks or issues with staff. I do think they
would have had interest in Chad O'shay coming back, but
he's under contract with the Browns, seems happy in Cleveland,
you know, didn't want to move Carmen Brisillo with the
Giants running the offensive line with the Giants right now
under Dable. He obviously wasn't available contractually as well. So

(43:18):
guys like that maybe were part of the reason why.
And I'm interested with those two in particular. I bring
them up because we don't know what the future is
for Dabel or Kevin Stefanski in their head coaching position.
So is there a chance that this is what they
do this year and then come next year those guys,
their head coaches get blown out and then they end
up coming back and being McDaniel's guys. I think that's

(43:39):
definitely possible. I want to move over to the defense
side of the ball with one hire in particular that
I thought I was worth bringing up, Scott Booker, who's
the reported safeties coach secondary coach. I'm not exactly sure
what his title is going to be, but Scott Booker
was in Tennessee with Mike Rabel and Terrell Williams for

(44:00):
basically the whole time. I believe that those guys were there.
And I look at Scott Booker, who was with Buffalo
last year by the way, coaching up their nickel corners
and their secondary He to me is tying now together
the front end and the back end. We talked about
this a little bit with Terrell Williams. Terrell Williams a
front seven guy, He's a defensive line guy. Those types

(44:21):
of guys don't usually get super involved in coverage and
things like that. It looks to me like Scott Booker
is being brought in to basically be the pass game
coordinator of the defense, and then you're gonna have Terrell
Williams running the front seven and running the pressures and
things like that. So those two guys working together on
marrying back end and front end, you know, coverage with

(44:42):
rush and things like that, I think is your brain
trust a lot with Rabel on the defensive side of
the ball. So I think Scott Booker is an important
higher I think that's a name we should all know
in terms of essentially, I wouldn't be surprised if he.
I think he had a senior assistant title in Buffalo,
so I wouldn't be surprised if he has a pretty
high title here once it gets announced.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that sets up.
I like his experience working with multiple spots in the
secondary because they have so many guys in that secondary
that play multiple positions. I think he's the kind of
guy that can kind of maximize they need to add,
but the personnel that they have, I think he's a
good fit for the personnel that they have. And yeah,
you have that through line of experience from Rabel to

(45:23):
Williams to Booker and everybody should be on the same
page day one.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
It's cool that side of the ball is getting the
band back together from Tennessee essentially in more or less,
and I think that's a good thing for the Patriots.
I think Vrabel's gonna now be able to truly run
his defense. It's gonna be a lot like what we saw,
i'm sure from the Titans over the years when he
was there, and he's got his guys, Unlike on offense,
where it's a little bit more of a mixed bag

(45:50):
of who experiences and places that people have been in
things like that. I'm not overly concerned about that part
of it from the offensive side, but it is worth noting.
I think that that there is a little bit more
of a mixture there. Defensively, this is Rabels guys, this
is his staff on that side.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Which I'll go back to what I say when they
hired Williams, I wanted to be Mike Rabel's defense. Yeah.
It's not to take anything away from Williams, like he's
a good coach, but at the end of the day,
this was one of the things with girod Mayo we
talked about when when it got rough, you know, you
hired Drod Mayo in theory because the job he did
on the defensive side of the ball. Would he step
in and correct the ship that's we want a defensive
coach to do. He never did it. Rabel seems like

(46:28):
he's just going to be hands on with it from
day one, and then that's sets up Josh McDaniels to
run the offense. And I think this is essentially the
setup they wanted last year. But now they have guys
who have done it, yeah, and it's just gonna make
it a whole lot easier.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Last thing on the coaching staff, Greg Madard had something
out there as well about the I think it was
Greg that Rabel could call plays on defense, and I'm
interested in that element of it because Terrell Williams has
never called plays at least that I know of, on
the defensive side of the ball. Rabel has obviously at

(47:01):
Ohio State and in Houston as their defensive coordinator. How
would you feel of Rabel was the primary play caller?
Do you like that? Do you like the CEO approach?
Because you just brought it up, and I think it's
a great point. Girod Mayo never took ownership of that defense.
He never took ownership. Last year, we pounded the table
on this show early, early, early, early, like first month

(47:22):
of the season. Why isn't Girod calling the defense? Why
isn't Girod calling the defense? Now? Rabel has that experience
to tap into as a former head coach to be
the CEO. He certainly has more chops and experience in
that regard to pull it off in that respect. But
you look at the way that a lot of these
models are working now. There's a lot of that going

(47:43):
on where even if you're a defensive guy, you're a
defensive guy calling your defense and you have the Josh
McDaniels head coach offense, calling the offense and running the
show on offense. How would you feel of Rabel's calling
the defense.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
I'd be okay with that. I don't know a problem
with Like I said, I wanted to be his defense,
so that's definitely him putting his mark on it. I
wonder if it's a situation where maybe he does that early. Yeah,
and maybe eventually Terrell Williams, you know, and when I
say eventually, I mean over the course of a couple
of years. Terrell Williams or somebody else is kind of
groomed to that, so verybel once this thing's really built out,

(48:20):
can focus more on the play to play of it,
and you know, on both sides of the ball, but
to get it started, I have no problem with it.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah, I would actually entertain it. I think there's a
lot to be said about having experience as a play caller.
I think it's a tough job, and I think it's
a unique job in this sport that not everybody is ready.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
For, especially on defense.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
It's very unique.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Actually think it it might be harder to call defensive
plays and offensive place Well, you're reacting right exactly offensive
plays like you're setting the tone calling defensive plays is
almost purely reactionary.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, A lot of what's cool about colin plays early
on in games is that most of the time the
offense the script like the opening script. A lot of
people always chalk the opening script up to like, what
are the best game plan plays that you have to
get off to a fast start, And that's certainly an
element of it. But a lot of the opening script

(49:17):
from the offensive standpoint is information gathering of how the
defense is gonna it's gonna handle things. So if we
show this formation, if we show this motion, if we
show this look, how is a defense gonna cover that?
How are they gonna react to that? And if they react,
if they do A, then do we have what's B? Right,
do we have a counter to that? Or if they

(49:38):
do B, can we counter with A? And so coordinators,
good offensive play callers will call plays early on in games,
and every play that you want you call, you want
to work. Like I'm not saying that they're calling plays
to have them not work, but a lot of coordinators
will call plays early on in games and it might
not necessarily go off great, right, it might not necessarily

(49:59):
be a great play, And to the fan, you might say, well,
why the heck did they call that play? But they
might have called that play early in the game just
to see what the defense was going to do and
how they were going to defend it so that they
could call a compliment to it later on. And that's
what you get into that chess match, and defensively that
that can be difficult. You know, you're reacting a lot
to defense. On defense, to personnel grouping formation, and then

(50:24):
obviously play design and on offense, you're kind of dictating
those terms, right, all right, anything else on the coaching
staff stand out to you, and that's pretty much.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I just want to see who that other wide receivers coaches.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Yeah, I do think that that would be good for them,
if they can hire a true technique assistant offensive assistant
to Todd Downing. I'm trying to get this the.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Oh, it's not so easy, is it. Huh? The freaking
works not so easy to answer?

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Okay, well, it's not my fault. I don't have a mouse.
Maybe maybe Marine can pull up the calls for us,
because this thing is not working. Apparently, is it turned on?
I can't hear you.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Is it turned on?

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yes? I flipped the switch the other way too, to
see if it will turn on that way, and hello, Hello,
can you pull them up and we'll figure out the moss. Patty?
I pull up, Patty. What's up, Patty? How are we doing.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
Good?

Speaker 6 (51:15):
How you guys doing this? Afternoon? I been? I get
a task for you. Okay, you have to convince the
rest of the TU guys that will Cable is a
good pick.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
At number four.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
I think that's going to be difficult, Patty.

Speaker 6 (51:33):
I know, but just from my perspective, I mean I
don't know who's going to be there. I don't know
who we're getting in free agency. I mean this this
whole thing is hung up on or contingent upon, like
what we do in free agency. But I think, uh,
you know, the line's bed's so bad. I think you
gotta do the what is it the draft one? Draft one?

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, ye, our company slogan.

Speaker 6 (52:00):
But also like what I when I failed to stay
last week, when I called it the PEU was like
what Jeremiah said? What he is right up on him?
Like there's I don't think there's another guy, like another
national draft guy that's out there whose opinion I respect
more than the Jeremiah's you guys obviously too, but you
guys aren't really national guys. But I really just wanted

(52:20):
to see what you guys thought of were really Alex,
because everdon I know, you kind of went over thoroughly
which thought of Will Campbell if he measures out you
want him, And That's kind of where I'm at right
now to I just wanted to get Alex's perspective on
him and just.

Speaker 7 (52:36):
What would be.

Speaker 6 (52:37):
Probably his biggest drink playing in this offense, and what
would be his biggest weakness. And I'll take it off there, guys.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Thanks, Thanks, I'm.

Speaker 6 (52:45):
Picking the I'm picking the Eagles to win thirty one
to twenty.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Nice. Yeah, nice, Well, I ended on a prediction of
the Super Bowl. Thanks for the call of Patty. So
Will Campbell, I've gone back and forth with Will Campbell. Yeah,
I'm trying to be consistent. I'm starting to really believe
in Will Campbell as an option for the Patriots, not
that I didn't before, but I'm trying to be consistent
this year with it. And the main thing that I

(53:13):
look at with Will Campbell that would give me any
concern about playing tackle is that he does have a
tendency to overshoot his landmark in his passet and then
open up the inside. We see that a lot with
like inside counters getting to him and giving up that leverage.
But how much of that is coachable? How much of
that is him overcompensating for the lack of length and

(53:34):
him having to get out to those poles?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
How much of that is having a quarterback that has
zero consistency your pocketbus?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Right? Those are the high level questions that people that
are more nuanced with offensive line play than me need
to answer in this organization, Right, how much of is
that coachable? Is that correctable? Is that compensation for lack
of length? That's where the lack of length, to me
shows up with Will Campbell. I don't see a big
issue with him in terms of like establishing first contact

(54:02):
and things like that being a major concern. I don't
see that with his film. What I see is is
that he gets out of his set aggressively, overcompensates, and
then gets beat to the inside by those twitched up
pressures that he's going to see at this level. There's
the one time that Kyle Kinnard got him in that
South Carolina game was with a little crossover to the inside,

(54:22):
So that that's an element that if you wanted to
be anti Will Campbell, that you'd have to point to.
But there's so many pros with his athleticism and his
makeup that I feel like if it's if it's correctable,
if it's coachable, then it will get corrected and fixed.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
And this isn't a guy that is like proportionally small.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Right right right, Like yesterday, not to cut you off, yesterday,
Paul got under my skin as he normally does, because
he brought up Isaiah Win, and I'm like, this is
a totally Noah.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Isaiah Win was a guard in college.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Isaiah Win was tiny by by NFL standards, inside, outside, whatever.
Isaiah Win was a small human handle six six three
twenty yeah, something like that.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
So no, he like he's big, he's powerful, He's so
advanced technically for his age, which, to your point, Evan,
if that issue is coachable, this is a guy that
can take coaching. This is a guy that knows how
to improve his game. You mentioned that Kyle Gnard move
that beat him in the South Carolina game. That was
I remember for his first play, but his first drive,

(55:25):
he comes back and he adjusts and he handles that
move three or four more times later in that game.
He is a quick learner, which you want at that position.
So does he come without faults? No? But if I
were to tell you right now, Will Campbell's arms are
thirty three quarter inches and you're sprinting that card up
at four, I don't even know you're trading down. You're

(55:47):
sprinting that card up at four. We'll see what the
number is. If if he comes in at thirty two
and a half, okay, we'll have another conversation. I would
even say, like the tough one. So this is what
it's gonna because, is gonna be anoy thirty two and
seven eighths.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I'm in, I'm in two. If you're if you're getting
all caught up on one eighth of an inch of
arm length and you're missing the plot, it's.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
It's Rashawn Slater, right. It was like it was thirty
four inches for years. Yeah, and then Rashaun Slater with
thirty four inch arms came in and was great, and
then all the all the people who just stick to
the spreadsheet, well, oh no, it was always thirty three.
There was just never anybody good enough and if Will
Campbell's thirty two and seven eighths and he comes in,
you'll hear a bunch of people saying, oh no, it
was always thirty two and a half. There was just

(56:31):
never anybody good enough. So this team needs a left tackle.
I don't care where he would have ranked in last
year's draft. I don't care, you know the standing of
these other guys. Look, Abdull Carter's not gonna be on
the board. Yeah, If Abdul Carter's on the board, it's
probably one guy take ahead of Campbell, Travis Hunter two.
But I don't think either of them are gonna be
on the board. I think it's gonna be one quarterback,

(56:52):
Hunter and Carter or Hunter Carter and maybe Mason Graham, Yeah,
or maybe Ted McMillan. So this team needs a left tackle.
They need a left tackle. You know my little spiel
that I like to give here. We've covered the two
of us. This is our eighth off season. We have
never once done an off season, and don't don't focus

(57:13):
on that part. We have never once done and off.
The first show we ever did together.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Yeah, you know what it was, Do you remember what
it was? It was the sixteen draft.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
No, it was nos later that it was reacting to
the Isaiah Win Draft.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Okay, literally the first show we did I was living
in New York at the time.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
The first show we did together back in the day
for ce L and Hass was hoping that the Patriots
had found their left tackle for the next ten years.
Here we are eight years later, and we are that
guy was not the answer, and nobody since has been
the answer. They need to fill this spot. Will Campbell
is a quarter to a half an inch away from

(57:54):
being a franchise left tackle. And there's no assuming Carters
off the board, assuming Hunter off the board, there is
no other clear cut player that you're taking him over.
I think he has to be the answer, assuming his
arms checkout.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
I have no notes like I totally agree. I I
just feel like in this draft, in particular, you're looking
to solve problems. Right. You have major problems on the
offensive line. You have major problems. You could argue in
terms of wide receiver and defensive line help as well,
but nothing is more painstakingly obvious than the need on

(58:32):
the offensive line. And you have a guy in Will Campbell,
And I know people don't want to hear this but
I'm gonna say it anyway. He's gonna be a great
offensive lineman. I don't even down, but he's gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
It's just giving. I know, the worst case. Now he's
a guard, but he's.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Gonna make the line better no matter where he plays.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
He really is and people, So you're gonna take a
guard at four it I know you create. You started
it with all these people about the anti guard different look.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
That would That was what we were talking about.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
It's it's so easy in this draft to knock down
any potential pick because it's not a great class. And
there are legitimate arguments against Will Campbell. There are legitimate
arguments against Tet McMillan. There are legitimate arguments against Calvin Banks.
There are legitimate arguments against Travis Hunter, against Abdull Carter,
against Mason Graham, a missing one. Who am I missing?

(59:23):
Will Johnson, any of them? I think with somebody else
any there's legitimate arguments against all these guys. And we did.
This was a couple months ago. We were texting as
you were kind of getting familiar with the top of
the class, and you know, you're talking about Will Carter's
arms and Kevin Bank, Kelvin Banks, Power and Teed McMillan's
speed blah blah blah. And it's like I think I
said to you, they have to take somebody. You can't

(59:44):
just say no, thanks, we'll take you know, we'll pick
fourth overall next year. Instead.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, nice?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Right, all right, so you want to just trade the
pick for a future for like, no, no, you you.
I don't want to hear the idea that, well, you
know this is where these guys would have ranked this year.
Well look at them in next year's clut You didn't
have the fourth overall pick. Last year, you don't have
the fourth. Maybe you will, but for now, you don't
have the fourth overall pick. Next year, you have the
fourth overall pick in this draft. To say, oh, well,

(01:00:11):
you know, none of these guys are worth a fourth
overall pick in twenty twenty four or in twenty twenty one,
or in twenty twenty six or in twenty twenty six.
That's not the draft they're in.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
No one's gets them so funny because it's it's annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I don't it's such a lazy taste.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
So so here's my here's my not even rebuttal but
here's my response to that, because I do I have
done that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
You can only take the players that are on the board.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
So if I'm only if I can only take the
players on the board, because I can, that's the only option. Like, look,
I'm hitting it down the fairway, right, That's what I'm doing.
And my point about bringing up Will Campbell and that
he's gonna be good and no matter where he plays,
is that I don't I don't see a bust like.
I don't see a bust factor with him where they're

(01:00:58):
going to be put in a situation where in an
admittedly down year of a draft, especially at the top,
and in a year where there isn't those types of
blue chip talents, the safest thing to do is to
just take the guy that's hitting it right down the fairway, right.
So I look at Will Campbell and I think he's
gonna be able to hit it down the fairway no

(01:01:18):
matter where you end up playing him on the offensive line.
I don't think you can say the same thing about
some of the other guys that we've tossed around at
number four, Carter and Hunter aside.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
But like for they even have their questions.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Yeah, I don't have any questions about those two. But
those two aside Mason Graham. I know he's kind of
getting a lot of buzz right now on Patch Twitter,
like he's the popular guy right now. My biggest concern
with Mason Graham concerns I have two. One is I'm
not as high on Mason Graham as a run player

(01:01:53):
as everybody else is. I think he makes plays against
the run, and he flashes against the run, But if
you're gonna ask him to consistently hold the point of attack,
take on double teams, and play a three down role,
I don't necessarily watch him do that consistently with his
pad level and with his ability to anchor in the trenches.

(01:02:14):
So I don't know if he's an all purpose player,
like I don't know if he's an every down player. Now,
maybe in their defense that they're gonna go to with Rabel,
that's gonna be more four down and be more aggressive.
He will be. But the comparison that I keep making
with him and I is it Fisk or Fisky. This
is gonna drive me up. But Braiden, I'm gonna say

(01:02:36):
Fisk because Deuson Paul made fun of me yesterday. Marine
and said that I say it wrong. So I'm gonna
say Braden Fisk with the Los Angeles Rams, who came
in this year with the Rams and was one of
the most prolific, efficient interior pass rushers in the NFL
as a rookie, just excellent rushing the passer as a rookie.
But he's not a run player, at least not yet.

(01:02:58):
Like he's not consistently good against the run. Same thing
with Christian Barmore, like it took him a few years
to develop as a run player as well. Mason Graham.
That element of it worries me a little bit. The
second element that worries me a little bit with Mason
Graham is more big picture, and I think we're in
agreement on this, the value add of adding another interior

(01:03:19):
pass rusher who is more disruptor than he is production, right,
Like who's getting the quarterback on the ground. The interior pressure,
I get it, Hurt Brady. We hear it all the time.
Pressure at guy's feet, pressure up the middle, all those
types of things. I'm not saying it has no value,
but if you're building your team and you're building your

(01:03:41):
defense around two interior pass rushers in Christian Barmore and
Mason Graham. If you go out in free agency, you
absolutely now need to find the finisher. You need to
find the Matthew Judon, the guy that's actually gonna have
the double digit sax season. Maybe that's Josh Sweat. I
don't know, like maybe that guy exists. But if Mason

(01:04:02):
Graham is your plan at four, and this is why
everything connects from free agency to the draft, if that's
your plan is that you're gonna build with two inside
guys that are gonna push the middle of the pocket,
and that's how you're gonna build out this defensive front,
then you have to have somebody on the edge that's
gonna finish the play. And so that means going out
in free agency and finding that guy through free agency.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Yeah. No, I agree with you on all that. But again,
just to get back to the point, like we can
nitpick all these guys and we're gonna do it. That's
what we do. But they got to take somebody. They
can't unless you want them to trade down so far
that they add a future first, like or like a
valuable future first, something like that, which they need talent now,
they can't do another year I'm okay with them doing

(01:04:47):
that moving down to like fifteen sixteen.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Yeah, I'm okay with them doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
And you need players, you need to start building this
thing up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
And yeah, but how's that?

Speaker 7 (01:04:58):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
You you are building this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Thing like I because they need to turn it around
now they can't do why?

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Like what what's the rush?

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Is there a huge drop off between in this draft
who you're gonna get in foreign who you're gonna get
at twelve?

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
I think Abdul Carter or it's Will Campbell. Yes, they're
absolutely sure.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Like I'm not making that trade ahead of the draft
because I want I want to see how the board
shakes out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
What's the difference between Campbell and Ursery?

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
But but you're not talking about Ersery at twelve. If
you're going down to twelve, you're still in range for
a Calvin Banks, you're still in range.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
You Thinkvin Kelvin Banks gets out of top ten?

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I think you will. I I've kind of gotten when
I was down at the Senior Bowl. I I talked
to some people down there that know way more about
offensive line play than me, and I I think that
we and and and the outside might be a little
bit higher on Calvin Banks.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
I just think, look, they need impact players. Are those
players are gonna get at twelve good prospects? Yes? Are
they impact players?

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
It's not this draft depending on way to board falls like,
is a guy at four going to be an impact player?

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
I think Campbell can be, yes, Carter obviously can be,
Hunter can be. Like, it's not you got to take somebody.
You have to take somebody and they can't do another year.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
I'm not saying don't take anybody. I'm just saying that
I'm not in a hue.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
So okay, But to your point, is some if it's
not a quarterback. If it's a quarterback, that's different. If
there's a team down there that wants a quarterback and
it's going to give you multiple future first fine, is
a team going to give you the package you would
want to move down outside of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
The top ten, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
And that's a fairst draft, right, You're not going to
get it, so you can't. It's as you know the
Coley micktweet that I love. You can't tell Roger Goodell
you're drafting Jeremiah Smith fourth overall and tell them to
meet you in the parking lot right, you got to
take somebody in this draft, and this is a team
that needs impact players. There's not that many of them
in this class.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I just wonder why not. I'm not in any huge rush,
and I understand that we're all starving to see a good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
They need to They need to be a little urgent.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
They need they why Like they just hired Mike Vrabel
Drake Mayson the year two like what they what?

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
They've made the playoffs once in the last five years.
They haven't won a playoff game since February twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Sure, but they all wasn't built in a day. You're
not gonna all.

Speaker 6 (01:07:16):
I know it was.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
And I'm not saying they need to contend for Super
Bowl this year, but they need to win more than
four games.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Of course, they need to win more than four games.
But I think they're gonna win more than four games,
just because Rabel's is a much better coach than girod Mayo. Like,
I think they're gonna get there organically.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
The roster needs significant improvements.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
If they want to be if they want to be frisky,
then the roster needs significant improvements. They just want to
win more than four games.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
I think they need to be closer to that frisky category.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Sure, I hear that, but they're not firing Rabele after
one year.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I know they're I know, I know, but that shouldn't
mean complacency.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
I'm not saying complacency. I just I look at this
draft and it's not a strong draft at the top.
I don't know what the big drop off is there
necessarily if Hunter and can't and Abdul Carter off the
board in the first three picks, Like, is there a
huge drop off from four to twelve, from four to eight,
from four to ten, Like, I'm not advocating for them

(01:08:11):
to go down to twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Are you gonna get the pick that justifies it? Are
you gonna get the return that justifies it for a
team that needs premium positions in the reality like you're
in You're in a position right now to draft a
left tackle who is a premium prospect at that position,
right Yeah, And like you said, they're gonna win more
games this year. Just Mike Rabel's better there. You know,
it sounds like they're gonna make some mosing free agency

(01:08:33):
things like that. You you punt on that position again,
you're not gonna be at the top of the draft
to draft.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
If not, why do you why are you automatically punting
on that position? Again?

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Who else are you getting?

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Like there's not you can go into free agency and
Ronnie Stanley's going back. You can sign like an Aleric Jackson,
who's a solid NFL left tackle. Is he a stud?
Is he gonna come in here and be a top
five left tackle in the league. No, but he's gonna
be a service NFL f tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
And I just then they they have to get that guy,
like you you understand.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
I'm not saying bring Venerian lowback.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
There's there's gonna be one, maybe two left tackles in freegency, right,
It's gonna be Jackson and Robinson. Yeah, and that's it.
Like you can't with on those guys. Then if if
that's and I guess the orders backwards because freedencies first,
but like you can't leave that position unaddressed. And by unaddressed,
I mean like not all right, Here's three guys who
are all fringe starters, and you know one of them

(01:09:30):
is moving over from right tackle and one of them
is really a guard, and you know maybe no, no,
no one's saying a top contract, top pick.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Why can't they go out and sign alerc Jackson If
they don't love any of these times, right, they also
any of the options at four? Like, I don't understand
why you're you're so anti trading down, Like I think
this is a team that needs as many bites at
the Apple.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
I'm not anti trading down. I'm not and I've said that,
like they need more than one good player. I think
moving so far down in a weaker draft, like you
you still need you have to get the return that
makes that worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Sure, but I think the rebuttal to that is is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
That I can't believe I talked myself into being the
anti trade down guy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Well, but the real thing in your point of who
what is a team trading up for? Is a fair right? Okay,
But let's just operate in a world where let's say
it goes Carter Hunter and then the quarterbacks start, right,
and so a team is looking is sitting there at four,

(01:10:28):
The Vegas Raiders are sitting there at four, you know,
looking at the patents on the clock at four, and
they want to make sure that they get youa door Sanders,
All right, then, okay, or let's let's let's push it
back just a little bit, just for the argument's sake. Right,
Let's say Saint set nine, the Saints at nine call
up and say we're not We've got it's gone far enough.

(01:10:48):
We're not taking any more risks, because I do think
there's a really good chance that that cam ward picks
up a lot of steam. Now, could it end up
being twenty twenty two all over again, where Malik Willis
is looked at as a top five pick until a
day before the draft like that, that's absolutely possible. But
there's a lot of love right now for cam Warden
being a top five pick in this draft. So if
you do get you're probably not gonna get like the

(01:11:09):
RG three trade. It's going to be a discounted version
of that. But if you get that kind of trade package,
then you go from four to nine and a draft
that I believe is deeper than it is top heavy,
and I don't think it's a great draft in general.
But if there's a strength of the draft, it's in
the depth, Like it's in the fact that there is
a decent run of players I would say, from like

(01:11:31):
fifteen to sixty or so that are all kind of
comparable and all pretty good in certain ways. I would
just much rather do that and try to get a
pick next year and have all this AMMO to move
around or to trade the one of the picks for
a player.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
So I guess what pick, Like, are you getting the
Saint's future first? Then I'm in if it's the future.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Second, if you're trading down in there, take it's a
quarterback pick, you're trading a quarterback pick, then you're expecting
to get a future.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
So I would say so if it's you know, like,
if it's all right, we're gonna give you nine this
year second and future second, No, that's not worth the drop.
I just I think the idea that and then at
nine people are gonna have the same complaint. This was
more my point, right. It wasn't because I'm not against
trading down. I'm not. Let me be clear, I'm not.
I'm just said I'm gonna be clear I'm not. But

(01:12:21):
you can't trade down and then complain they got the
lesser player. Like there, it was more you have to pick.
I kind of threw that comment in and I didn't
think it out right. There are people who were just
like not gonna be hat you did. There are people
who are not gonna be happy with whoever they take
in the first round because blah, bad draft.

Speaker 7 (01:12:41):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Yeah, I was more so saying like, you can't just say, no,
we're not gonna pick this year, just book mark us
for the fourth, fourth overall pick and we'll make it
next year.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
When the draft patter, why like, why are you defaulting
to that? Nobody is saying that they're not gonna make
a I.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Know they're not saying that, but I feel like that's like,
deep down, people are in this pretzel of they don't
like any of the players, so they're just not gonna
be happy with whoever they take, and they're just gonna
call it a bad pick whoever they take, because they're
gonna say he's not a prospect worthy of the fourth
overall pick. Is that is the guy you take it
nine gonna be worthy? And I think this is a
dumb thing to do because everybody's in different drafts, but
to use your kind of benchmarks, is the guy you

(01:13:16):
take at ten gonna be worthy? Or the guy you
take it nine gonna be worthy of the ninth pick
in this generic NFL draft that people like to talk. No,
not necessarily, but so is there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Some more comfortable to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Is there something to be said, Well, if I'm not
gonna get the guy who's worth the value of the pick,
I'd rather pick lower and get future assets. That's where
I'm like, Okay, fine, if that's what you want to do,
trade down. But to say, well, you can't take Will
Campbell at four because he wouldn't have gone fourth overall
last year, or you can't it take at nine because
he wouldn't have gone ninth last.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Year, But that's a thousand either or, right, Like, would
you rather so take Ted McMillan at nine, but then
you have a future first round pick, another midday pick.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
So sure if you if you want to, and this
is where this is where I framed it poorly. Yeah,
that either or is fine, and we're gonna spend a
lot of time on that on the next four months.
If you're just gonna tell me individual prospects aren't the
Patriots shouldn't take them in the first round because they're
not actually slated for that spot in this generic universal draft,

(01:14:20):
Well then then you're not gonna be able to Then
then all right, let the clock run out like the
Vikings did, and just wait, I guess just wait until
you're I would just.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Feel I would feel a lot more comfortable. But a
lot of these players taking them a little bit laer.
That's fine. Like I feel like people think that I
don't like Tech McMillan as a prospect. I don't hate
Tech McMillan as a prospect. I just don't think that
I don't like taking him at four. So if I
took him at nine, I'd feel a lot better about
it because I'm taking him and I'm getting the package

(01:14:51):
from what I traded down.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
So honestly, my ideal world, my ideal world is assuming Hunter,
and my deal world is take at Carter. But assuming
Hunter and Carter go in top four, you move to six,
you get Campbell at six, and you get.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
I don't, So it'd be a smaller package.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
It's a smaller package the one I looked at. And
you know, I love to do this. I go back
and look at the pass trades and try to find
what the equivalent would be. There isn't a great one
in recent memory. The closest is the twenty eighteen trade
when the Jets moved from five to three to get
Sam Darnold. Yeah, and if we were there. Now, the

(01:15:29):
Jets had two second round picks that year, which the
Raiders don't have, so you have to kind of get creative.
But you also have to consider the level of prospect
that Donald was vers Sanders, and that there were other
quarterbacks on the board the closest equivalent to me. You
go from four to six, you get thirty eight, and
you get the Raiders future seconds. So you don't get

(01:15:51):
the future first in this one. You're only moving down
too spots. But the beauty of that trade is you
now have thirty seven and thirty eight. You now have
two seconds and two two thirds. I'm gonna package one
of the seconds, thirty seven or thirty eight. I'm gonna
package that with one of the thirds, and I'm gonna
move up into the into the twenties. And that's the
ideal scenario for me. Now, who can you still get

(01:16:12):
Campbell at six? That would really put the bow on it.
If not, now it becomes another conversation. Maybe you trade
down again. So I'm not anti trading down, but just
understand they're gonna take somebody in the first round. You
said he didn't probably gonna be slotted over where they
were habit take somebody at four, and I'll have to
take somebody at four me, I have to take somebody
in the point is making you don't trade Like, Let's

(01:16:33):
say somebody came to you. I guess here's the hypothetical
that these people might like, and this is we're getting
nuts here. Let's say, and I hate when I do that,
such a pretzels. Well, no, because I say I say
these people, and then people on Twitter think I'm talking
about them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
You people.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Let's say, who's all right, the Saints at nines perfect example,
or no, who's a quarterback team that's even lower? The Steelers?
Where Steelers picking like eighteen nineteen something like that?

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Right, Oh god, that we're moving down. Well, no, hang on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
Let's say the Steelers come to you and say, we're
gonna we want to hold on to our first round pick,
but we want four. We're going to give you our
first round pick in the next three drafts. What do
you do that you don't get a first round pick
this year, you're picking at thirty eight, but you get
the Steelers next three first round picks. Yes, so that

(01:17:23):
might be the that's kind of the thing I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
The way I look at it and then we can
move on because we've gotten.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Honestly, now, the other thing about I might do that too,
But the way I.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Look at it is that in it to go back
to your your analogy of this generic NFL draft that
we always talk about, I feel like this draft in
a lot of ways is like starting at in a
good year like last year. We're really starting at like

(01:17:53):
four or five with the best players, right, like Abdul
Carter would have been after the quarterbacks last year, He's
probably like somewhere in that four to six rate into
that draft in the competition with like a Joe Alt
and the Milik Neighbors and all those guys. So if
you trade down into that five to ten range, you
are now taking a player in that range that probably

(01:18:15):
belongs somewhere in that range because you're cutting off the
top of the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
But are they gonna go like who's going ahead of them?
If there's nobody worth going ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Of them, well you're gonna lose out, probably on Campbell.
Like I'm not losing any sleepover losing out on Mason Graham,
So maybe that's just a meeting. I'm not eight, so
I'm not losing any sleep over that. So I guess
that that's where I'm at with that sort of Saints
pick at nine being where I would like to be
at because I think a lot of the times, once

(01:18:45):
you get to nine, ten, eleven, twelve, you are talking
about prospects that are not perfect, right, No prospects perfect,
but you know what I'm I'm getting at. So I
just like the idea that a lot. I like the
idea of trying to trade down in this draft to
put your self in a position where I can talk
myself into Ted McMillan at nine plus plus all the

(01:19:05):
picks that you got in the trade down, I can
talk myself into, you know, Will Johnson. I can talk
myself into a lot of guys at in this draft
that feel comfortable taking them there. Plus you get the
package from trading down. You know Tyler Warren, Like, you know,
is he available still at nine? I could, I would

(01:19:25):
be down with that. I just watch them the other
day at diet he was terrific. Like I I'd be
down with that. But I'm not taking Tyler Warren at four. Sure,
but it might take Tyler.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Warren at nine if you get the correct package. Yeah,
I could be into that I don't know if you're
in the package. We got to take some calls people
on YouTube that want to call in that the lines
are full.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
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(01:20:44):
let's get to these calls. Mike is in San Diego.
What's up, Mike? Mike is still there? Mike, Mike? All right, Mike,
call back in. Sorry for keeping you on hold for
so long. Jesse is in Virginia, what's up? Jee?

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Hey guys, A little long one here, but just two
thoughts that like your opinion on, or at least I
think it's worth discussing. So first, this idea that we
stick at four in take Travis Hunter, Okay, I'll play
with it for a minute. If your plan is to
put him at cornerback, because you, guys, get in the weeds.

(01:21:22):
I think you can appreciate this. Look down the road.
If you flex someone at four, you're planning on giving
them a second contract. Are we really going to put
two cornerbacks on with massive deals in a second contract
when you already have Christian Gonzales I just don't think
it's realistic, And a lot of people are saying he
had the higher ceiling at corner. I just don't know
why the Patriots would draft him and put him at

(01:21:43):
corner when you already have Christian Gonzales. If you're gonna
take him, you better well make him a wide receiver.
And two, I like this theory of hitting it down
the fairway finding starters in a draft that is deeper
than stacked with high level talent. Let me ask you
this question. In the scenario trading back with the Raiders,
would you trade back up and take a Gray Zabel

(01:22:06):
if I told you he was Patriot level Joe Sony
where you just solved the problem the left side of
the line with Will Campbell, who is a good Matt
like comp Andoe and crazed Abel who is a good
Joe Touny. Top question, what do you guys think?

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Thanks Jesse, thanks for the call. Uh yeah, I mean
that's a great start. Yeah, on your left side. I
mean you have to really nail some things in freedom.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
So you've got to get a pass rusher, you got
to get a receiver in the veteran market. But if
they were to like land those two and I think
offensive line is the hardest to add. And then you Yeah,
you move down a six and then you maybe it's
the trade I just talked about thirty seven, thirty eight,
sixty nine, seventy seven package two of those move up
you take Zabel at Yeah, I'd be in for that.
He also makes an interesting point there about Hunter and

(01:22:50):
that are you going to have two corners on big
contracts and you know maybe the Patriots and one of
these teams have used him as a receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Yeah, for that reason. Yeah, I've I've been pretty consistent
with Travis Hunter being a receiver. I would play him
at receiver.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
I just.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
To me, it's just a value thing, it's a value
add thing. I think he's more significant. He's going to
move the needle more for you being a great receiver
than he's going to be a great corner. And I
think his receiver tape is really good. I think it's
definitely good enough for him to play that position in
the NFL. So I look at it in too. The
caller's point not necessarily worried about Christian Gonzales and all

(01:23:29):
the contract side of it, but just like where you're
allocating your resources, you know, and I look at wide
receiver as a much bigger need for this team than corner.
I look at Travis Hunter as a pretty good wide
receiver prospect. I wouldn't necessarily I hate throwing around the
word elite, like I think elite is thrown around a
little bit too easily these days. But a high end

(01:23:51):
wide receiver prospect, let's put you that way, and I'm
willing to play him there. And if he wants to
play both ways, it's harder in that way. I would
say to play him, you know, maybe you play him
third downs on defense.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
I don't ye kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
It's harder. I think it's harder than having him play
full time corner and moonlight on offense, kind of like
Marcus Jones does. I think it's harder to do it
the other way. But if I was Travis Hunter, and
I've said this before, I would want to play receiver
because it maximizes my value in terms of gaining the
most money in the league.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
I don't know that it does that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Do you think it does well?

Speaker 4 (01:24:29):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
In short term? Yeah, but just with his build and
you know the Derbilly issues had in college, what's worth more?
Call it two wide receiver contracts or three cornerback contracts.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
Two wide receiver contract.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
He's gonna be in the league longer as a corner.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
He's going to be if he gets if he gets
paid twice at wide receiver, we're talking upwards of one
hundred and fifty million dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
And you don't think he can get that. Corners are
getting the cornerback.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
Contract sixteen eighteen somewhere around there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
That's no twenty million dollars Corners, You sure.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
That might be the very top of the market, but
there you're not gonna get five for twenty. Like you're
not gonna get a hundred million dollar contract playing corner,
Like maybe Patrick Surtan will, but like you'd have to
be that good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
Well maybe I think he's that good, maybe the corner
in the league.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
All right, Uh, let's uh say.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Jalen Ramsey and certain or twenty four av all right,
I thought it was a liar.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
Now, all right, Rob is in Virginia. What's up? Rob?

Speaker 7 (01:25:25):
Hey?

Speaker 8 (01:25:25):
Guys, can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
Yes?

Speaker 8 (01:25:28):
Hey? Starrya to uh keep going on with this with
this previst hunter talk. But I've had this thought for
a long time, and I was thinking, if we're gonna
play him, if you know, if he if he's allowed
to play both ways, why not play him as like
a deep safety. I feel like you maximize his value more.

(01:25:49):
You know, he's further away from the ball, you can
play longer in the NFL. You know, safeties play longer
traditionally than corners do. Again, if we're just talking about
season to play both ways, but I haven't heard anyone
ever bring that up, and I just I don't understand why. Yeah,
I mean, corner obviously, you know you have a more

(01:26:10):
direct impact on the game. But I mean again, if
we're talking about him playing both ways, I just feel
like the way to maximize both ways him on defense
and offense is to put him as like a deep safety.
So what do you guys think about that?

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
That's a good question, Rob. I think you hit it
though in your own response of value to the team.
Having a guy that shuts down his side of the
field or goes man to man all game long, like
Christian Gonzales does, it's just a lot more valuable. Unfortunately,
unless you're Ed Reid right playing up top at safety
seventy five percent of the game, you're not making an impact.

(01:26:47):
And I understand you are in conceptually in theory as
a help defender and all that good stuff, but you're
not around the ball and the game.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
One of Hunter's best traits is his ball skills, his
ability to win at the catch point, and then his
closing speed. You're you're not utilizing that at safety as much,
nearly as much as you are a corner.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Yeah. Yeah, It's not a bad point though, in terms
of like durability and all that. But I don't think
there's a ton of fear in my mind in terms
of attrition at corner, you know, I think it's the
attrition part of it. For Travis Hunter comes more in
at receiver. You know, when he goes over the middle,
when he you know, takes the big hits as a
ball carrier after the catch, Like, is he gonna have
the durability to do that and then also play a

(01:27:29):
little bit on defense? Like that's asking a lot? All right?
Don is in Philadelphia? What's up? Don?

Speaker 9 (01:27:35):
Big guys, third time caller, a long time listener here
love quick question for you guys. What is your ideal
off season in terms of specific players, in terms of
draft and free agency. You know, in draft, including first
round pick, second round pick, you could trade back up,

(01:27:56):
you could trade your second round pick, and then ideally,
who are you guys wanting to sign in free agency?

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
Thanks for the call, Don, That is a lot to
unpack on a radio show, but I'll just throw out
a couple of names in free agency. I mentioned Aleric
Jackson already. Alec Jackson to me is a target regardless
of what their approach to the draft is, because I
think they need two new starting tackles, and even if
he ends up playing on the right side, I think
he can start on either side of the line for you,

(01:28:25):
and so he's a starter somewhere on the offensive line.
I would look at signing him. I would definitely make
a run of T Higgins. I think you have to.
I don't think you can be picky there. You have
no choice.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
In my mind, what about some of the like the
trade guys, like like a DK Metcalf or something gaff
if whatever have A J. Brown's name has been thrown
out there. I don't see why he's requesting a trade,
but that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
I would. I would skew more towards T Higgins because
I don't love giving up the capitol. Like I don't
love having to give up significant draft capital in the
spot that they're in right now. What if if it's
a great and I like DK and you know that
if we're talking about it being a hot like a
Jamar Chase, then obviously you know you I'm opening it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
What if it's what if it's the Brandon I you
trade so second or fourth and call it a future pick.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
I think I'd rather have T Higgins.

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Oh, I'd rather have Metcalf. And then you do like
I said, you do that trade with the Raiders, you
move down from four to six, you get they have
what thirty eight? So you get thirty seven with the
from the Raiders. So now you've replaced that, You've basically
traded DK Metcalf. You've moved down two spots in the
first round to get DK Metcalf. You replace that pick
in that trade.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
I would I mean second, second, and fourth. I would
know it's a lot of moving parts. Like I don't
know if we if they could actually pull something like
that off. I guess maybe if you if you did
all of those things, then than sure, But I don't rather.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
You know what, even without that, you're gonna get a
bet player better than DK Metcalf thirty eight.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
I would just rather pay T Higgins like, oh, you're not.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
It's Metcalf's a much better. I think Metcalf's is like
a significantly better receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
I don't think he's as much better as you do.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
I think he is.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
I don't think he is. I think they're both good.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
He's been playing opposite Jamar Chase is over he.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
Has been playing Tyler Lockett and JSN aren't scrubs.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Like or not Jamar Chase. No, but they're he just
got with against that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
I think Higgins' injuries are overblown. I think Higgins this
past year didn't have any long term security on his contract.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
I'll give you this here. I agree with you on that,
but I just you know I feel about this. I
thought met Calf over Higgins for a while, and I'd
give up the draft asset.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
Yeah, but I I I think Metcalf in a vacuum
is probably a better player than to Higgins. But I
don't think it's so much better that I I want
to give up all this, all the draft picks to take.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Me all the draft kept picks. I'll give up thirty
eight and what is it like I'll do that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
I'm not sure Seattle will do that I don't know
what's in it for. I don't know if it's why
they're trading Dk Metcalf. I still don't get it because he.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
Needs a new contract and they're so why build the
English team? And are they like why why are they quarterback?

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
Why are they interested in trading one of their best
players on their team? I just don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
This is because this is what it is now, want
to new contract?

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
You request, But we haven't gotten to that point yet
where he's like disgruntled, Like we're not at the Miles
Garrett point.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
If I told you two weeks before Tyree Tyreek Hill
got traded that he's getting trade, he would call me nuts.
That happened like that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
I wouldn't say the whole pre agen agree. I think
Tyreek Hill's situation was different.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
It's the whole pre agent thing. But I think I
think Tyra Kill's situation was when when a but we've
seen it across leave with all these guys. When a
receiver is entering the final year in his contract, there
the team's always start taking offers and the idea is
he make him an offer good enough that they make
the deal.

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
Okay, I I just I look at DK Metcalf and T.
Higgins in a similar tier. I think DK Metcalf might
be higher in that tier, but I don't think that
they're like I don't think we are comparing like Jamar
Chase to T Higgins, right, I think we're comparing more
comparable players than that. And if it's just mister Craft's money,
they were just cutting check, right, we felt different.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
I think about Higgins then, but yeah, I want I
go for the better player.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
All right, Will is in New Jersey. What's up Will?

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Hey?

Speaker 7 (01:32:10):
Guys are hey?

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Good?

Speaker 5 (01:32:13):
Hey?

Speaker 7 (01:32:13):
I just got a question. While you guys are talking
about receivers, what do you guys think of Trey Harris
from Old Next I saw that he scared the Higgins
from Iowa State. Obviously old myth wonky offense is just
a sucker for a decent amount of games. But I
thought he might be like a good day two day
three prospect for him.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Thanks. Well, yeah, we got an email about Trey Harris too.
Where the email is just Trey.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
Harris's and is your question marker?

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
Just nope, It just literally says let me find it.
It just says that's the entire email. Trey Harris that's it.
So a lot of Trey Harris talk here today. I
haven't done a complete review of Trey Harris yet, I
have seen a little bit of him. The one thing
that I did like about his game is that he
does separate at the top of the rat a little

(01:33:03):
bit better than I was expecting. He's got some build
up speed. He's not a burner per se, I would say,
but he's got some build up speed. But his hands
are really inconsistent. His ball tracking is really againstays. He
had a really really bad drop in the game against
LSU that I watched of his So I'm not anti
Trey Harris. On day two. I think that's the perfect
time for him. If he's the thirty eighth overall picked
by the Patriots, I'm not going to be, you know, angry,

(01:33:28):
Like I'm not going to be pissed at them for that.
But that's where about where it starts for me with
Tray Hairy.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
Yeah, I mean it goes back to the development thing
after that, Right, are they going to be able to
develop him? Who's the wide receivers coach? You're going to
hear a lot of people point out that the last
time Mike Rabel took one of these big, physical outside
receivers from Old Miss. It went pretty well for him,
and I think they're very different players. I think so too,
You're and hear a lot of people talk about that.

(01:33:53):
I'm worried about the development as a whole, just any
receiver thirty eight. I kind of already said that, but
Trey Harris doesn't treat.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
Yeah, I think that those two guys are very different players.
I don't see Trey Harris as the yak monster that
AJ Brown is like. You know, I think that Trey
Harris is more He's going to get his yards on
air yards. He's not going to get his yards.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
On A J.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
Brown viewed as that guy coming out.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Yeah, a J.

Speaker 9 (01:34:18):
Brown.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
I can never remember what A J. Brown's pre draft.
Everybody was in on Metcalf. AJ Brown was the other guy.
So A J.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Brown was always considered like a running back playing wide receiver.
Always very good in that way. I think a lot
of the draft conversations with him were actually against like
Nikhil Harry and Deebo Samuel because those members were pretty
similar in terms of their skill sets. Obviously it did
not go the Patriots way, but yeah, that that was

(01:34:47):
one of them, just really quickly. And I know we
got a lot of calls and I'm going to get
to all of them on this an email Jake emailed
in here, a very long winded email claiming that, yes,
I'm unfiltered. I said that I would take Will Campbell
over Travis Hunter if Will Campbell checks out as a tackle.

(01:35:07):
I don't remember saying that if I did. If I
did say that, then I misspoke or something like that.
So I'm not going to read your whole email, Jake,
which is very thorough. I appreciate that, because I'm just
gonna say that that was not the take. But I
would take Will Campbell at four of his if his
arms check out. But no, I have Travis Hunter and

(01:35:27):
Abdull Carter and a tear of their own in this draft.
Let's see, let's get to some of these emails, because
you know, we got emails and we got calls, so
there's a lot going on here. There's the other one
that I wanted to bring up. Oh man, all right,
So this person emailed and about Todd Downing. He said,

(01:35:48):
probably my least favorite higher of this is Todd Downing
and how hard this system is to coach wide receivers.
We went over that a little bit earlier on in
the show. I think we're we're both an agreement. I'm not.
We're not saying that. I think it's gonna be an
absolutely terrible hire necessarily, but if we had to pick,
if I had to pick, I would say that was

(01:36:09):
my least favorite higher of this class. All right, we've
heard a lot of this as well. I'm sure you
have as well, about trading Joe Milton and what the
Patriots could potentially get for Joe Milton. Where do you
stand on that? Do you see them shopping Joe Milton?
You know what's your temperature on that?

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
So I wouldn't be in a rush to do it.
I look, there's teams that want quarterbacks, and they have
their rankings, and you know, Sam Darnold's going to be
out there, we think, and Kirk Cousins might get traded
from Atlanta, and you got the guys in the drafts
and all that and slowly, but there's gonna be more
teams I think that want quarterbacks and quarterbacks available, so

(01:36:48):
teams are gonna have to go further down that list.
So wouldn't trade Joe Milton right away. I'd let the
market kind of set itself. If somebody were to offer
a top one hundred pick, which for Joe Milton, which
might sound out landish, but given the lack of quarterbacks
available this offseason, I don't think is impossible. If somebody's
gonna give you, like a third round pick for Joe Milton,
i'd probably do that. Anything less, I think i'd wait

(01:37:09):
another year unless there's maybe like a package or somebody's
gonna give you a bunch of picks because they.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
Need a back.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
They're gonna need a backup quarterback, Like that's still a
spot you need, and if you trade Joe Milton for
what a fifth round pick, you're probably just gonna end
up turning around and using that pick on a backup quarterback,
and I don't know that that's worth it at that point.
I'd hold on Milton developing for another year, and maybe
he gets another showcase game or just a really good preseason,

(01:37:36):
and now maybe trading him for a top one hundred
pick becomes more realistic. So I'd continue to let you
know that investment pay out, and I'd let Milton grow
because they're gonna need It's not like you know if
Jacobe was coming back, it would be another story. But
what are you using on a back? What are you
gonna use on a backup quarterback? If it's just a
pick you're getting for Joe Milton, that doesn't seem worth

(01:37:56):
it to me. I'd let the guy continue to grow internally.
And how what we think is a good backup for
Drake may So I'm not against it, but I'm not
against them doing it. And I think they should take
calls and consider it and all of that. But and
you know, I want to see Joe Milton go somewhere.
He's gonna have a chance to really start. But I
wouldn't be in a rush to move him either, you know,
if a team's gonna get desperate. Sure, I think if

(01:38:18):
you let this play out another year or two and
Joe Milton balls out in preseason, I do think you
can get a top one hundred pick for him eventually.
I think that's possibility. I don't think it's a guarantee,
but I think it's a possibility. I would take my
time and wait and see.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
I'm not trading Joe Milton unless I get absolutely blown
away by an offer. I think it's extremely valuable to
have two quarterbacks that you think can play.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
So would you trade him for a third.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
That one? I'd have to think about it. That's a
good question.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
So you're maybe even a little more hesitant than I am.
Somebody's gonna give me like the eightieth pick in the draft.
I probably do that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
So I want to table this with saying that I
don't think that anybody's gonna give you the AIH overall.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
I don't think so either. For I don't think so either.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
I think we're getting way ahead of our You said
blown away, I have to get blown away. Yeah, so
is that blown away? It's right on, that's like that,
that's over under, like that's like right there for me.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
Let me pull up the draft order, we'll see you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
I gotta be honest, and you know you know that
I I've sort of come over to this side of
the street. Uh, I'm not. I'm not a big draft
picks guy. Like I'm not as enamored as I used
to be because we go into in depth in the
draft as much as anyone. I've seen the Patriots. Just

(01:39:33):
how many times are they So we're gonna take the
eightieth overall pick, and he's gonna turn into Chase Winovich,
like I I'd rather I'd rather have Joe Miller. Right,
you know, we're gonna take the eightieth overall pick, and
he's gonna be Kaden Wallace, and I'd rather have Joe Mill.
I think you can.

Speaker 2 (01:39:46):
And now we're getting into kind of the NBA philosophy,
have it. You can package the picks. Let's see here,
so top of the fourth round, Cleveland, Tennessee, New York.
All they're gonna have a chance to get quarterbacks, though,
so they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
Let's see, he's still he's still an early Day three picks.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
The Saints at ninety three, Saints call off for ninety
three for Joe Milton.

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
No, I'm Joe Milton.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
The Jets at ninety two. No, I also would't trade him.
Who else needs a quarterback here? The Steelers at eighty three,
send them to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
No, I'm kipping them all right. I think it needs
to be. I think I think blown Away all right
is second or high.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
The Raiders at seventy three, The Raiders at sixty eight,
How about the Raiders of sixty eight? No, No, you're
you're staunching me. I want to find where you're lying
is hang on, Yeah, No, Panthers is a new quarterback.
What am I talking about? Steelers at fifty two would
be the next quarterback back.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
That's the thing, I'm att.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
So there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
There's so much value.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:46):
There's so much value in having a cost controlled backup
that you think has upside. Like I think that's the
that is the ideal backup quarterback rookie contract with upside. Yeah,
we're not talking about Chase Daniel, talking about a guy
that has a ceiling. And I think there's a ton
of value in that. And as much as I love
Drake May, we love Drake May, I'm not crowning Drake

(01:41:07):
May yet.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Right, So, And and the other thing is Joe Milton's
not going anywhere. Yeah, if he was, if he was
entering the final year of his contract.

Speaker 1 (01:41:16):
When we get to like the Jimmy G Jacolia Brissett
situation three years from now, then.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
We'll if Joe Milton's entering the final year of his
contract to be a very different conversation. If Matt Castle,
they held on to Matt Castle all the way through,
right he was, I think he had one or two
years left on his seal at that when I was
before the preset rookie contracts. But no, I'm with you.
I'd have to be I think you'd have to be
blown away more than me. But I have to be
blown away to trade Joe Milton. I'd take the calls.
I would take the calls, and I'm like, make calls,

(01:41:41):
but but not just giving him away.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
But to your point, then how are you addressing backup quarterback?
And wouldn't you at the end of the day, then
I have to just use another draft pick on a
backup if I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
Getting if I'm getting a third round draft pick, and
I can draft my backup in the fifth. Okay, So
I moved up two rounds like that, you know, you
move up seventy spots. Now I'm in if I'm trading
Joe Milton for a fourth and I'm getting a fifth back,
and then I'm taking the backup with the fifth. All right,
I moved up maybe thirty five spots if it's the

(01:42:14):
full round, like that's it. On day three, that's completely different.

Speaker 1 (01:42:18):
Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
So there is a point where it's like, oh, I
have to replace my backup quarterback. Final do it for
the pick you're giving me, yes, yeah, or maybe it's
what if you get like you know, so maybe this
is the way you do it. I get a third
and a fifth, so now I get the fifth to
replace my backup quarterback, and now I have the third.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
I just I I never give away quarterbacks that have upside.
If I'm a team, if I'm the GM, I'm doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
I'm with you, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
Steve here emails in and says that he's a little
bit concerned with all of the different philosophies and coaching
trees on the offensive side of the ball. We touch
on this briefly a little bit, you know, and he's
his concern, which I think is valid, is that he's
worried about wires getting crossed and you know, mixed signals
and things like that with with all the different languages

(01:43:08):
and things like that. So to that, Steve, I I
think that's a valid concern. Thomas Brown, West Coast guy,
Doug Morone, I would say, Sean Payton, you know, Bill.

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
O'Brien, like he's also just been in the league long
enough that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:21):
Yeah, that's he's had a lot of overlap with this
kind of offense. But Thomas Brown is the past game
coordinator is a West Coast guy, Ashton Ashton Grant, right,
the reported quarterbacks coach is coming from Cleveland. He's a
West Coast guy. I get all that this the buck
stops with McDaniels and Mike Rabel, Like this is on

(01:43:43):
those two guys, especially Rabel, to say, this is the playbook,
this is the language, this is what we're speaking. You
guys have to adjust like that. It's not on McDaniels
to adjust. It's not It's on Ashton Grant, and it's
on Doug Moron, and it's on Todd Downing, and it's
on Thomas Brown, and that's we'll see how that works out.
We'll see how that works out. But it's on those

(01:44:04):
guys to do that. And we also got an email
from Henry here with a couple of names that he
wants to throw out there, and one of them we've
talked a lot about, Mason Graham today, Josh Simmons, we've
talked a lot about. But one guy that he does
mention here too that I wanted to talk about was
Jalen Walker from Georgia, who I also watched in my

(01:44:25):
last batch of watching prospects I think that there's a
really windy road to get to the point where Jalen
Walker is a Patriot, Like it involves a trade down
and it evolves free agency getting hit out of the
park where you really don't have any holes, which is
hard to believe that we're going to get to that'd
be nice. And so there's a lot of different ways

(01:44:47):
and avenues and windy roads that you have to get
to to get to Jalen Walker. That being said, Jalen
Walker just in a vacuum really screams like a Rabel
Patriot linebacker because he kind of plays a little bit
like Mike Rabel, like he can play.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
On the line five the line, you're the third. So
I've only heard three comps for Jalen Walker from three
different people, and they've all been Patriots linebackers, but they
were all different. I heard grod Mao, I heard Kyle
van Noy, and now Mike Rabel.

Speaker 1 (01:45:16):
So if I had to comp him to a Patriots
linebacker from all avenues, it's grod Mayo. I think from size,
he's going to measure out roughly like girod Mao did,
and he can play inside, he can play on the line,
of scrimmage. He can blitz. From everything that you've heard,
he's like this very lauded leader and captain and all

(01:45:40):
that kind of stuff as well. Uh Rabel did did
it similarly to Mayo, but it was different eras kind
of and they got lighter and with Mayo than with Rabel.
So he's not gonna be as quite as big as
as Mike Rabel is. He's probably gonna come in at
like six two, six three and forty five pounds from
that standpoint, a lot like Gid Mayo, a lot like

(01:46:03):
Dante High Tower, just in terms of role. You know
where you're gonna play him on the defensive front. I
just look at a guy like Rabel though, and and
just everything that Jalen Walker can do for you defensively
in the front seven, play the edge, play in sideline, backer,
rush in line, blitz up the middle, drop into coverage,
cover running backs like that. Those types of guys are

(01:46:25):
the types of guys that typically, you know, Belichick guys
gravitate towards.

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
So I don't know if we're gonna do recency bias
players today, but I have one that I guess would
be day two. Jalen Walker. Yeah, I can give it now,
just give it. Chris Paul from Old Miss, who was
one of the best players at the Shrine Bowl, is
a little bit smaller. I think he came in and
he's like six one twenty six, so he's on that
smaller side. But if you're playing him next to Juwan Bentley, right,

(01:46:52):
this is a guy that can play sideline. A sideline
is a plus player in coverage. You can get after
the quarterback. He's not a great run defender, but he
can like be out there. Yeah, he's a second round
you know, projected second third round pick, middle of the
day two because just people don't take linebackers high anymore.
But I think he's tremendously talented. He might trying to think.

(01:47:13):
I feel like I'm missing somebody. He's definitely like a third,
top three to four linebacker in this draft. You know,
I wouldn't put him ahead of Walker, who else? I'm
blanking on a name, but I'll remember it. But I
think that kind of player works if you like Jalen Walker.
But like you said, just the how that works out
with where he's projected to go and where the Patriots
are is tough. Chris Paul is a guy to know

(01:47:36):
and then you know he was my recent guy a
couple of months ago. Barrett Carter from Clemson is another one. Yeah,
I was missing the kid from UCLA Swessinger.

Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
Those are probably the four best linebackers.

Speaker 7 (01:47:47):
In the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:47:47):
So Jalen Walker just to wrap it up on him.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
Yeah, if I had, oh, g Hod Campbell, that's why
I was missing g Campbell from Alabama.

Speaker 3 (01:47:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
If I had to pick a Patriot from the past
to content, it would be drawn. I think you was
a lot like Dirod Mayo, and it's probably gonna go
in a similar spot of the draft. Is Girod Mayo?

Speaker 7 (01:48:05):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
The other one that I had mentioned quickly from Georgia
is Mikel Williams, who again, if you're gonna do that
trade down to nine or ten, really raw, really raw.
Now Georgia always has that issue. I hate how Georgia.
Uh they they they new to their ed rushers at Georgia.
They don't let those guys rush. It's annoying, but they'll

(01:48:27):
line them up head up over the tackle, and it's
it's obviously tougher to get on the edge head up
over the tackle, so it hurt it hurt Trayvon Walker
a lot. It hurt Mikeel Williams a lot. But Mikeel
Williams is one of those guys that's really toolsy, really raw. Uh.
Not quite as as like freakishly athletic as Trayvon Walker was.
But in a similar mold, I would say to Trayvon Walker,

(01:48:50):
you give him to Terrell Williams and Mike Rable like
they they're gonna take that ball of clay and turn
him into a good player. Yeah. I know that, but again,
this is trade down scenarios. This is you know, things
fallowing a certain way to get to that point. One
last one about the current roster, and then we'll take
these last calls and we'll wrap it up. Uh. This
is a question from Sean and Vancouver, who's a big

(01:49:11):
time listener. I always appreciate that he says he's concerned
about Ramondre Stevenson and his fumbling. So what can the
Patriots do to help Rimandra Stevenson with his fumbling issues.
I'm not super concerned with Ramondre's fumbling issues because I
trust Frable. I think that they're going to recognize that

(01:49:31):
Ramondre Stevenson needs to be here. He needs to be
a part of their offense. He needs to be a
big part of their offense in terms of volume and
whether it's doing the Kevin fulk where you put the
arm the arm bands on or uh, you know, you
get him like the program and he's carrying the football
around the facility. A Damian Harris tried that whatever it is,

(01:49:54):
you know, holding the ball in a different spot, you know,
just in terms of where he holds the football. Remember
Tiki Barber used to hold it like weirdly, like all
the way up here, like whatever the case may be.
To get the fumbling issues out, I have confidence that
in this coaching staff that they're gonna kind of throw
the kitchen sink at that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:11):
I also think some of it, like it wasn't a
long time issue for Stevenson. He fumbled seven times total
over his first three seasons and like four hundred something carries,
and then he fumbled seven times last year alone, So
I think some of it's just workload. You know, I'm
huge on this that vermondra Stevenson's been overworked. McDaniel's always
very good about making sure his running backs are not overworked.

(01:50:32):
So I think that in in you know, some shape
or formal help take care of it. You just hope
it's not a mental issue at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
Yep. Agreed. All right, let's get back to the calls.
Andy is in Sudbury. What's up, Andy?

Speaker 5 (01:50:45):
Hey, guys?

Speaker 2 (01:50:46):
How are you hey?

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
Good?

Speaker 7 (01:50:48):
Good?

Speaker 2 (01:50:48):
Good?

Speaker 6 (01:50:49):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:50:49):
I just have a question about wide receivers in the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:50:54):
Sure, yeah, yeah, go gotch you go U.

Speaker 8 (01:51:01):
So, yeah, I have a question about wide receivers in
the draft.

Speaker 4 (01:51:05):
I mean I would I would like Ted McMillan with
the fourth overall picks, but I could stand trading down
to get him or one of Savion Williams, Jack Dick
or Pray Harris. What are your thoughts on them?

Speaker 1 (01:51:19):
Thanks guys, nice nice list. I I wish that save
On Williams participated in the Senior Bowl. I know he didn't,
which was a bummer. A lot of that depends with
Jack Beck, I think, in particular on what kind of
offense they're going to be. If they're really going to
try to like ramsify this offense and be that sort

(01:51:41):
of scheme, then Jack bec makes all of sense in
the world. Like the Rams putting Cooper Cup on the
trade block. A couple of days after Jack Beck had
a great week at the Senior Bowl. Does not get
lost on me. Like he is a RAMS wide receiver,
he is a Puka Nakua clone. I don't know if
he's gonna be as good as Puka is, but he's
built like that. He can block, he can play inside

(01:52:03):
in those type you know, formations and things like that.
He goes over the middle. He's good in at yak
he's good at at the catch point. Like he's a
RAMS types of a receiver, he's a Niners type of receiver.
So if that's the type of offense that you want
to run, then I think that he's a great fit
for it. I don't think he's a great fit for
the traditional McDaniels offense in what role, in either role,

(01:52:25):
because I.

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
Just don't think he could be that like Jacoby Meyers power.

Speaker 1 (01:52:28):
Slot maybe, but I don't. I don't look at his
route running as like precise enough. I think he's more
of what he's a power slot like. I think he
wins more with physicality and and with just overwhelming ability.
I think that's probably like the difference between him and
and Puka to me, Like Puka is a lot more
technical than what I saw to Jack Beck. Now maybe

(01:52:48):
Beck gets there, you know with training and things like that,
but yeah, I would say that that that he's more
in that mold. If that's the type of offense they
want to run. If they want to run the mcdani
annuel's traditional Patriots offense, they need IQ players, they need
great route runners, they need uh you know, like Diala
State guys like Restrepo, like Matthew Golden from Texas, Like

(01:53:12):
those are the types of guys that I would grab
some of them.

Speaker 2 (01:53:15):
I got Kyle Williams, who's still like eight hundred something
on the big bed for some reason.

Speaker 1 (01:53:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
And as for Savion Williams, love the player fascinates the
hell out of me. McDaniels is not does not have
a good history scheme touch guys.

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
So on a scale of one to Leviska chanal T,
where does he fall on that that scale?

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
Because he reminds me a little bit of isn't isn't
isn't the scale really on a scale from Nikhil Harry
to Cordero Patterson.

Speaker 1 (01:53:40):
Yeah good, Yeah, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:53:41):
So I guess that, like if you told me they
were gonna draft him as Cordero Patterson, they were gonna
use him as a running back and h you know,
slot receiver, I'd be a little more in if they
were going to try to turn him into like an X,
I'd be pretty worried. He's better than Leviska shanal Okay.
I just worry that he is one of those He's
a gadget player, He's a graduet. He's a massive popped
up clist basically.

Speaker 1 (01:54:02):
Right, because well, you read his scouting report and I
haven't done a ton of work on him yet, but
you just read a scouting report and like it's like, oh,
well he can play running back, and he can you know,
you can use him on scheme touches and so like,
Cordell Patterson is kind of the comp. I don't think
he's as explosive on kick returns and things like that
as Cordelia. Yeah, yeah, I think that there's that's the
comp all right. Uh feels like Mark in Connecticut. Mark,

(01:54:24):
I feel like you end the show as the last
caller every week. I like that.

Speaker 5 (01:54:30):
I appreciate you guys as always just had too quick,
just had two quick things for you. I am quite
surprised and shocked and I wanted to know if you
guys had any intel, why would the organization want to
relieve these two guys of their duties, Troy Brown and
Matthew Slater, which they have been great, I think, pieces

(01:54:53):
for this organization of all time, and I just don't
get why they would want to relieve them. And maybe
they're bringing to Wes Welker.

Speaker 4 (01:55:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:55:02):
I would love to see that. And then the other
thing is Josh Simmons. Would he be available at the
end of the first round if the Patriots try to
move up into the first round into the back of
the first round like they tried to last year. And
I appreciate you guys always.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
Thanks Matt Mark, We appreciate the call. So on the
first point with the coaching staff, Troy Brown had quite
the fall from grace. You know, he was on the
up and up, and wide receivers coach didn't go great
for him. I think he's a really good returners coach.
The Patriots have had good returners. Obviously, Marcus Jones is
a good returner in his own right, but I think
he's actually done pretty well. When Marcus joneses been hurt

(01:55:38):
and things like that, with developing returners, but wide receivers
coach didn't go so well for him and it kind
of stunted his growth from there. Matthew Slater is an
interesting one, but I don't believe that him and Rabel
ever really overlapped here, right because Rabel was gone by
the seven oh eight and then Slater came in as
a draft pick, so they don't have a relationship. Now.
Could Matthews Slater have stuck on his as a special

(01:56:01):
teams coach, Absolutely, but his role on Drod Mayo's staff
was a lot is more of like an assistant to
the head coach advisor type of role as well. He
was very involved in that sort of thing. And my
take on that is just I think Matthew Slater is
being replaced by people closer to Rabel and more confidance
of Abel, like a stretch John Striker or Ryan Cowden

(01:56:23):
in the front office or things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:25):
And I also wonder with Slater, like, I didn't he
say something before he retired to like he didn't think
he was going to go into coaching right away? Yeah,
and then obviously he did. We were all kind of
surprised by that, and maybe just wanting to take a
step back by the way you mentioned when you read
saving on William's scouting report. Yes, the thirty third team
just put theirs up. You want this, you want to
I'm just curious your reaction positives. Powerful frame offer, straight

(01:56:47):
line explosiveness and contact balance with the ball in his hands,
Supreme versatility as a direct snap backfield player, alignment at
running back and ability to split wide. Impressive contested catch
resume across entire body of work to win at the catchpoint. Negatives.
Drop rate exceeds ten percent for his career, some frustrating
lapses of routine opportunities. Refinement as a route runner requires

(01:57:10):
work played in a college spread system with plenty of
soft coverage. Does not illustrate desired run blocking contributions on
the perimeter that his frame may suggest. He's listed at
sixty five two twenty five unofficial pro comparison Cordero Patterson.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
So the only difference between that scouting report and what
Cordero Patterson turned into. Yeah, I wouldn't say Cordell Patterson's
a great contested catch guy. So if Xavion Williams is
going to add that on top of Cordero Patterson's skill set.
But again, I don't think he's as explosive as Patterson is.
But if that's the skill set, then I am more

(01:57:45):
intrigued by it. But the receiver that you just described
is anti Josh McDaniels.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
Its completely one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, like that is
not the guy that's thrived with Josh. Another one draft network,
diverse release package, explosive, great short area, quickness, position, versatile playmaker, concerns,
raw route runner concentration drops, lack of production. Do they
have a comparison, uh, comparison? They mentioned Deebo Samuel in

(01:58:15):
the right up, but not as a direct comparison. That's
probably the ceiling. And then I look Bleacher report as
a ton of plus and negatives. Their comparison Chase Claypool.

Speaker 1 (01:58:22):
Okay, I think Chase Claypool that would be better at
the catch point.

Speaker 2 (01:58:27):
That also, like that takes out the whole reason saving
On Williams has all this value is because of the versatility.
So he has Chased Claypool as a receiver. Like, I
can see that comparison, but there is more to him
than that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:40):
Yeah, okay, really quickly, super Bowl pick who you got?
Eagles Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (01:58:45):
It's just dumb the pick against the Chiefs at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:58:48):
But it is.

Speaker 2 (01:58:51):
Yeah, I you know, heart says Eagles, but I you know,
go birds and all that. But I think the Chiefs
are I've had fun saying go Birds. I slogan yeah,
like co Bird's big always sunny guy too. I yeah,
I think the Chiefs are gonna win. So this game,
to me, it's it's it's it's hard without Kyle Shanahan.
It's so easy when I can just be like, oh,
the Niners are gonna get a lead and then lose.

Speaker 1 (01:59:13):
Okay, all right. I don't know why Kyle Shanahan had
to take a stray.

Speaker 2 (01:59:16):
There, because that was my bet last year.

Speaker 1 (01:59:18):
The Eagles have a better football team.

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
They do.

Speaker 1 (01:59:21):
The Eagles have a better roster top to bottom. But
what this is going to come down to is two things. One,
can the Chiefs stop Sakuon Barkley. They're not gonna stop
Saquon Barkley. It's not gonna blow them down, slow them down.
And really what it is is can they limit the
explosives because Barkley's a really good at turning a ten

(01:59:42):
yard run into a sixty yard run When you're playing
the Eagles, you gotta get him on the ground. You
can't allow him to take those big runs like he didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:59:50):
It was like Chris Jones and Barkley's like the best
magic the first.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
The first play from scrimmage and the NFC Championship game,
he takes it to the house. You can't have those
types of plays against the Eagles. If you you can
get the Eagles into third and pass, then Steve Spagnolo
is gonna come after Jalen Hurts. We know that Jalen
Hurts is one of the worst passers in the league
under pressure in terms of how good he is that
when kept clean versus under pressure, that delta of those
two things one of the worst in the league at it.

(02:00:15):
So the game comes down to for the Chiefs, can
they get Philadelphia an obvious pass? Because if they can
get Philadelphia an obvious pass, Spagnolo can do his thing.
He can spin the dial in the pass rush and
he can get Jalen Hurts under pressure, and the and
the Eagles are gonna have a tough time. In conclusion,
I'm taking the Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (02:00:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00:36):
I think at the end of the day, too much.
Steve Spagnolo and too much, Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid.
The coaching I just trusted so much at this point.
It's so consistent, it's so good. I just don't see
how a Nick Siriani coaching staff, even though I love
Vic Fangio, I don't see how Nick Sirianni coaching staff
out coaches that that brain trust.

Speaker 2 (02:00:56):
I just don't Who wins the next Super Bowl next year? Yeah,
San Francisco forty nine ers? No, no way.

Speaker 1 (02:01:04):
And on that note, we will be back next week,
same time, same place. We might talk a little bit
about the Super Bowl on Sunday, which we're gonna watch together,
so you can get our notes on the super Bowl,
but we'll also get into heavy draft talking offseason, as
we always do. So thanks so much for listening and watching,
and we'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 5 (02:01:21):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
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Speaker 1 (02:01:28):
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