Patriots Catch-22 3/12: Analyzing Patriots Reported Moves, NFL Draft Talk

Tune-in as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth go down the list of the Patriots reported signings at the beginning of the legal tampering period. What is their overall grade for the moves, which signings made the most sense, what areas still need improvement, and how should the Patriots staff handle their next steps? Plus, they discuss the NFL Draft with the context of this week's reported moves.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex bar Blazar Lazar, everybody nailed it.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
He joined as always by our Bara.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Because I can't quit.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, my Tes Johnson love.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
He tested exactly the same as Tantut.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
But he didn't he did. He didn't. He did he
did not because he didn't he did.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
He ran a four or five one. Tant Del ran
a four four nine.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
That's different. Take out tank dell to hundredths of the
that's what the combine is. That's absolutely tank tank tank.
Deel's also are twelve pounds heavier. Tes Johnson, they showed
it was.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
He was on my downs list. You don't have to
ran this on my.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Don list player in the history of the combine.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
It was not good. Oh it was not good, but
you know it was good. It was a good couple
days for the Patriots. It was a I have a
little pep in my step today and I thought it
was a really solid start. I'm not going to come
in here and blow too much smoke and say that
it was like this unbelievable A plus first day of

(01:18):
free agency, but I would call it a really solid start.
I'm pleased with what the Patriots have done so far
and I'm excited about it. So we're gonna talk about
it here today, Alex barth Evan Lazar Patriots Catch twenty
two for the next couple of hours, and I want
to go player by player and give our takes on
each individual player. But I obviously want to start big

(01:40):
picture first and talk about our overall thoughts of really
what's been one day, because they haven't really done much.
I think there's some things that are balls up in
the air that maybe they're waiting to see where they
fall to start a second wave here, Cooper Cup, we'll
get to that and we'll camp. Yeah, we'll get to
that in a little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
The show would be great. If they're listening up stairs,
you want to give us some reacting during the show,
appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
The next two hours. We'll yeah, sooner the better, and
we'll keep morel here a little bit longer if it
happens in LA or we'll keep it going anyways. I
think my big picture thought on the free agency so far,
and I feel like everybody that's commenting on this so
far is putting in the caveat of they still need

(02:26):
the wide receiver, and they still need the left tackle,
and I think we're all aware of that. But I
look at what they've done on defense and think two things. One,
I'm really glad that they didn't ignore how just bad
I'm just trying to find the right word, wasn't good
on defense last year. And anybody that thought it was

(02:50):
just an offensive minded free agency or off season that
all they needed to do was out on offense, I
don't think that that was really looking at it objectively
of just how that defense fell apart, especially upfront and
in the middle, right just right down the spine of
the defense. When you talk about into your defensive line play,
linebacker play, safety play, it just wasn't good enough on

(03:14):
any level last year. At times we came in here
every single week and did three up, three down. And
how many times did I just lament about the linebacker
play last year, And just how those linebackers once Bentley
went out, just didn't make any plays at the second
level of the defense, didn't get golf blocks, didn't make tackles,

(03:34):
just didn't make any plays. So you add a game
wrecking three technique with Milton Williams. You had an edge
defender that's stout and plays their style football, can get
up the field a little bit. And Harold Landry and
my guy Robert Splaine is one of my favorite signings
of this whole class because that is a tackling machine.
Like this guy is always around the ball, He's always

(03:56):
going to make tackles. He's always going to do that.
Carlton Davis out on the perimeter kind of shores up
that cornerback room, you know, puts everybody where they're supposed
to be at the cornerback spot. So my big picture
takeaway is that I'm someone and I'm going to give
credit to all three. The Big three is what I
like to call them. Vrabel, Cowed, and Wolf looked at

(04:19):
that defensive side of the ball and in my mind,
understood the flaws and understood where they needed to address
the roster on that side of the football. So they
made calculated moves. They made moves for guys that fit.
They make moves for guys that play a certain way.
And that is encouraging because I feel like someone is

(04:41):
looking at this like a like a football guy and
recognizing that these are these were our holes on defense.
This is how we fix it. Let's go out and
execute a plan to do so on the first day
of free agency. So long way to go on the
offensive side of the ball. But that's encouraging that we
are not to throwing money at big names or you know,

(05:02):
we're gonna sign the top three defense of free agents
because that's what we need. No, they they made some
really nice, calculated moves to upgrade this defense.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I they didn't address the
big the two biggest needs, but I think they've done
a good job of checking off so far. The majority
of the other boxes they you know, left tackling wide
receivers still the big ones. The other one i'd put
out there is guard and then safety. But you know,
people are gonna compare it to twenty twenty one. Twenty
twenty one. Maybe there was more overall talent, but that

(05:32):
was more of just a blunt approach. If we're just
gonna go out and sign player after player after player,
and you know how much consideration was there A fit
Some guys worked, some guys didn't. To your point, I
think every guy they signed, it's it's a very targeted
like you can project the role instantly for every single
one of these guys. We kind of wondered, you know,
where's John new Smith gonna fit. How's he gonna play.
Jalen Mills, you're gonna play corners, You're gonna play safety.

(05:53):
And you know you can have a couple of guys
that you maybe want experiment with. That's fine, But early
on they needed a guy. You know, best case scenario,
wrecking tandem in the middle, worst case scenario, if they
don't have bar More, they have that guy who can
penetrate from the inside, which they need to play the
style of defense. They got a guy who plays their
style on the edge. They got a bigger, physical man

(06:14):
corner on the outside. I know we talked about zone
last week. I think we maybe need to rehab that
rehab that conversation. They needed a guy who plays sideline
aside on the linebacker position. Got that, got one of
the tackles they needed, like it all just all five
or six, just instant boom, spot them starters, even kiris Tanga,
who's not the biggest name and who knows how much

(06:35):
he'll play. But after trading Davon Gotschad, they needed a
guy who's just gonna sit and you can put on
the field on second and one or third and one
sitting down in the middle and have them stop the
run and boom, he plugs right into that role. So
I think it was a very disciplined approach. Mike rabel
I think it was Rabeler Wolf one of them said
at the combine, We're not going to sign players just
to sign players, right. They talked about getting aggressive but

(06:56):
not being reckless. I thought they walked that line perfectly.
And when they were maybe gonna lose out on Milton
Williams just based on how the reporting went, they kind
of went back in and you saw that aggressiveness turn up,
but they didn't go all out on players that they
didn't need to go all out on.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, I agreed. And you mentioned Carlton Davis and maybe
talking a little bit more about them still playing a
lot of man'sonman coverage, which I agree with, But I
also just look at Carlton Davis and how long have
we been saying, you know, Jonathan Jones, Marcus Jones, Miles
Bryant when he was here, good players, but just not
outside corners, right like they need to be playing the slot.

(07:34):
They don't have the size, they don't have that ability
to go up against you know, those outside guys. They
get a guy like Carlton Davis in here, and again
it's not just the player, it's also the skill set
of the player. You know he has he's six foot one,
he's two hundred pounds, he has an incredible length in wingspan.
I think he's ninety fifth percentile in the wingspan when

(07:56):
he came out of the draft. So you have a
body type now that projects to fit well on the outside,
opposite of Christian Gonzales. So again, you know, they recognized
we have slot corners playing outside, and those guys are competitive,
and those guys are feisty cover corners. So they've held
their own to their credit. But this obviously isn't how

(08:19):
it should be. Like we're playing these guys out of position.
And so you go out there and you sign Carlton Davis,
and now Marcus Jones projects as a slot. Maybe you
do bring Jonathan Jones back here still on a reasonable
contract and play him at nickel or safety or something
like that in the middle of the field, and everybody
just back there kind of starts to fit where they're
supposed to be, so that was it was encouraging that

(08:42):
they were able to identify their holes on defense and
go out and sign guys that fill those holes. You know,
Harold Landry left defensive end, Milton Williams three technique, Carlon
Davis number two corner, Splaine. I think they're going to
try to play Splain and Bentley next to each other
on early downs. I don't know for a fact if
that's going to be the case, but if I had

(09:03):
to guess, I would say that the plan would be
to play both those guys on the field together. Not
Splain replacing Bentley, but Bentley and Splain as a duo.
So we'll see how that all works out. You mentioned
you know Morgan Moses, and I think it's similar. Morgan
Moses is going to be your right tackle next year.
You have that spot filled at least for the twenty

(09:25):
twenty five season, and you know, there's a long way
to go on that offensive line. It's probably the biggest
concern I have right now. Still. I think they're down
let's call it, two starters at least, and then there's
obviously a decent amount of you know, stuff out there
about what's going to happen at center and what's not
going to happen at center, So we'll see what transpires there.

(09:49):
But your at least two thoughts still to fill at
left guard and left tackle, so we can get to
that here in a minute as well. And we'll take
your phone calls eight five to five p that's five hundred,
and you can reach out on email too at podcasts
at Patriots dot com if you'd like to do that
as well. But I want to go through all these
free agents that they the additions by just go one

(10:13):
by one as we tend to do on this show
and get really into it. So let's go in order
of just sort of you know when they were signed
if you will a little bit here. So obviously the
first one is is Harold Landry on Sunday night, as
we're all on our couches probably not thinking that anything
is going to happen until the morning, they sign Harold

(10:34):
Landry to a three year deal. And you know, this
one's obvious. Big connections with Rabel goes back away as
a draft. Rabel draft pick is very first draft in Tennessee,
second round, second round pick for the Titans.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
After Shan Evans was their first round pick.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
That ye right, it sounds right. He doesn't Harold landers
you know, his his pass rush win rate. I know
that's a number that's going around a lot from PFS.
PFF is pretty harsh on it. Sounds like ESPN's is
a little bit nicer. But neither one of them are
glowing about his season last year in terms of pass
rush productivity. You hope that maybe that was scheme related.

(11:14):
You know, he was in a different scheme for the
first time in his career. Now that he goes back
to playing with Rabel and Terrell Williams, maybe he goes
back to being a productive player in the pass rush.
But I think the number one thing that stands out
to me with Harold Landry is the run defense is
really solid, A really good run defender, but a different style,
not an Anthony Jennings style. I wouldn't say he's a

(11:35):
guy that can get up the field, that can you know,
shoot gaps and really set the edge by getting a
downhill at the line of scrimmage and use that burst
in that bend that he has to make plays in
the backfield. And I would also say in the pass rush,
if you're counting on the fact that you're gonna get
a lot of interior pressure up the middle. Then he's

(11:56):
someone that I do think can kind of clean up.
Like I don't know if he's necessarily at this stage
of his career going to be a one on one
winner that's going to get sacks all on his own,
But if Milton Williams is pushing the quarterback towards Harold
Andry's side of the line of scrimmage, I think that
he can be the guy that gets the quarterback actually
on the ground.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah. Good complimentary rusher, good secondary rusher, and they needed that.
Now you may say, well, okay, who's the primary That's
what we still need to wait and see, and maybe
that guy comes in the draft, Maybe that guy comes
next year. We all knew they weren't getting get everything
in year one, but a good solid piece in the defense.
I meant to say this in the opening take, like this,
we talked a lot about the Commanders model. That's what

(12:34):
this is. A guy that's not a superstar, but he's
going to give you kind of a floor and he
will help just kind of shore up that defensive front
and just raise the level by being steady and consistent.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, that's a great point, and I wanted to pull
up and we can do it in a second. The
Commander's free agency last season. Now, the Commanders didn't go
out and make a Milton Williams signing at the top
top of the market, but a lot of these guys,
the Landryes, the Davis's, you know, these mid level to
to you know, let's call it mid level to maybe

(13:08):
you know, three quarters level if you want free agents
where a lot of what the Commanders did, you know,
they signed a lot of those types of guys.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I think that does it.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
With Landry.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I think we you know, kind of got that covered.
Milton Williams is obviously the big piece, you know, just
get right to him. I think that with this defense
and with this scheme and what they're gonna try to
do with Rabel and be more aggressive. You know, he's
to use that word multiple times to describe how they
want to play defense, especially on the defensive line. Aggressive play.

(13:40):
On the other side of the line of scrimmage, the
three technique or the player that lines up over the
outside shade of the guard right is Jeffrey Simmons in Tennessee.
It's a massive, massive role to fit this whole puzzle together.
A game wrecker that can defeat blocks in the run
game and make splash plays in the run game and

(14:02):
get after the passer. If you're going to run this
kind of system, you need the interior penetration. You need
those guys that can do that. So I can totally
understand and I express some of my doubts or you know,
just concerns about Milton Williams before free agency, because you know,
when you play on that defensive line in Philadelphia next

(14:22):
to Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Josh Sweed, Jordan Davis, you
do worry about if it's going to continue when those
guys aren't around you, right, and you don't have Jalen Carter,
especially on the interior and he only played fifty percent
of the snaps last year in Philly. When you pay
a guy this kind of money, he's going to play
a lot more here than that. But with that being said,

(14:43):
the role in the defense that he's going to play
is extremely important in this system, and he can play it.
He definitely has a tape that he can play it
at a high level. And they clearly made this a
non negotiable, like we have to walk out of free
agency with Milton Williams. And I think a lot of
that goes back to the type of defense they want
to play.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, and I think ideally you have two of those guys,
yeah right, in him and Christian Barmore, and that's going
to be among the best defensive tackle duos in the
National Football League. Yeah, we'll see where they're at with Barmore.
It kind of sounds like nothing definitive has been made
of that yet and doesn't need They don't need to
make a definitive decision right now, right, So it's not surprising.
But if you get those two guys going in the

(15:25):
middle and with Landry coming off the edge, and you know,
you maybe throw a Day two draft pick in there,
completely reworked front, night and day from where they were
at last year.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
It's extremely athletic too. Just I know some of those
guys are a little bit older, like Landry, so maybe
this doesn't quite apply. But if you go back to
look at all these guys in the combine, they're all
elite athletic testers. Out of the combine, Landry, Milton Williams,
we should mention Keon White you know, another guy, high

(15:56):
end athlete, bar More, high end athlete. So all this
sud in a front that was typically space eating, you know,
run stuffers like Devon Godshaw's of the world. Now all
of a sudden, he's got a bunch of athletes that
get up the field. So you can see the vision
of what they're trying to build in that respect as well.
Look at Milton Williams. I see a lot of the

(16:18):
same style of pass rush moves when we talked so
much about Mason Graham and the draft. Very violent with
his hands, likes to use his swipe, likes to use
an arm over. To compliment that he can bull rush.
I don't think it's his number one go to, but
he can do it if you want him to try
to push the pocket up the middle. And then at
two ninety is his quickness in the run game is

(16:41):
really stands out. You know, he's got that ability to
just cross over and you know, get on the edges
quickly and get into gaps quickly, and guys on the
offensive line just don't get over there quick enough to
like overtake those blocks. So that's all over his tape.
Fantastic playoff run for Philadelphia yea last year as well.
So this is a guy that performed well in the

(17:02):
biggest moments for the Eagles last year. So a lot
of pros about the player. I just you know, I'll
keep on saying it. I just I hope that it's
not a product the Jalen Carter.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
We'll see it's a lot. That's that's gonna be the
big question. You know, he's gonna he only played what
about fifty percent of snaps in Philly, right, so he's
gonna be playing a bigger role here. How does he
adjust to that? And that's why. Look, Christian Barmore is
not Jalen Carter, but again, you get the two of
them together, and that's going to be something I think
that could be really special.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, And I do wonder too if if Kean White
is in more of a rotational role and he's kind
of like a third down interior pass rusher type of guy,
and maybe he even goes into in terms of snap
count and stuff like that, and even where he's rushing,
like into what Millan Williams was last year for Philadelphia, right, Like,
you know, someone that is only playing fifty to fifty

(17:52):
five percent of the snaps, but is really effective rushing
the passers. So if it's not bar More, that's get
that's eating, you know, when Milon Williams gets double teamed,
or Williams eating when Barmore gets double team Like, maybe
that's key on White next year. Is the guy that's
getting all the one on ones with Milton Williams in
the middle. Carlon Davis, I know this is your favorite signing. Yeah, bunch,

(18:14):
You've been a big Carlon Davis.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I've been telling you that he made sense. You know,
they needed size on the boundary, they needed physicality on
the boundary. And I'm not gonna lie when you said
and I don't think you're necessarily wrong in the point
you were making, But when you said that, it felt
like maybe they were gonna go a little more zone
heavy on defense. I was kind of disappointed. Yeah, Like,
I just think that. Look, I think if everybody could
play man all the time, they would. I think man's better,

(18:37):
but it's also a lot harder to execute, and that's
why teams don't do it as much. But if you
can play man heavy with your corners, I think there's
a massive advantage in being able to do that. And
they now have two solid, really like, that's one of
the better cornerback duels in the league. Two good, really
good man corners on the outside, guys that you can

(18:58):
kind of pick and choose your matt ups. Gonzalez is
a little more athletic, little more agile, a little more crafty.
Davis can do that stuff, but I would categorize him
as more of a bully. And the other thing is,
and let's not lose sight of this. Everybody talks about
all right, well they you know, Milton Williams, Harold Landry, Kiris, Tonga, Robertsplane,

(19:19):
like they worked on the front, they worked on the rush.
Carlton Davis I would put him in that category two
because in theory, if you have Gonzales and Davis on
the outside, you should be picking up more coverage sacks. Now, right,
those two, those two guys are Davis with Gonzalez. Adding
Davis to Gonzalez helps the pass rush as well. So
I just think, not just a good player, it's not

(19:40):
so much. I think Carlton Davis is an unbelievable player.
I think he's a really solid player. But what he does,
what his skill sets are, what he brings also a
guy that has won at a high level, won a
chip with the Bucks, made a run last year with
the Lions. Kind of running out of those guys. Only
have five guys left here who won a Super Bowl here,
and we haven't had to think about this in New
England for a long time, but this is what the

(20:02):
other thirty one franchise had to do for years. You
kind of want to have a guy or two in
the room who's won a Super Bowl just to kind
of give that experience. Obviously, they still have a few left.
But Carlton Davis, the guy, he's won at a high level.
He plays physically, he plays on the outside. He gives
them size, he gives them physicality. The way he fits right,
the way he fits what they need to me. Makes

(20:22):
a good player, a great signing because he's gonna make
It's gonna help Christian Zales, it's gonna help the pass rush.
Like he just kind of elevates what they already had
in place.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, physical corner, pressman corner. Yeah, really good at the
line of scrimmage. You know, he has great length and
physicality to just smother releases in press man and make
receivers work through contact. And all that good stuff. First
and second level routes are really tough against him. He's
really good at those, especially in breakers. You know, if
you're gonna run a slant, you're gonna run a dig,

(20:53):
You're gonna have to finish through some contact and make
some contested catches against the guy like Carlon Davis. His
one other than Durabil over the years has been up
and down. He doesn't have great long speed, so he
can get beat deep sometimes. But when you have Christian
Gonzalez on the other side, like maybe the safety help
goes to the Carlon Davis a little bit more often.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
And this is where I'd like to see them ad
that true free safety. Yeah, on the back end, because
if you can allow both Gonzalese and Davis to play
more aggressive in the shorter intermediate, you're gonna turn two
guys who are primarily locked down corners maybe into kind
of ball hooks.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah. So I watched I watched a couple games of Davis's,
but I watched him against Christian Watson with the Packers
because I wanted to see him against a real speed receiver.
It's a tough matchup for a guy like him. And
he did really really well outside of two plays, but
those two plays went for like sixty yards apiece. Because
he does sometimes lose some of those foot races down

(21:46):
the field. You know, Watson ran by him on a
go ball on one and then you know a crossing
route where he got caught up in some traffic. I'll
give him that, but you know, just going across the field,
those types of foot races can be a little bit tough,
especially if he's playing off coverage and not playing up
on the line of scrimmage where you can get his
hands on guys. The go ball was like soft press,
so he wasn't really jamming, he was just kind of

(22:07):
mirroring and and Watson ran by him. So if you
manage his matchups though, and you put him against you know,
the bigger bodied guys, or you put him against the
guys that aren't quite as dynamic down the field, and
Gonzalez he's just, you know, can run with anybody, and
runs with Tyreek Hill, so he can run with anybody.
You know, he covers the true speed guy, then you're

(22:30):
in good shape. And it's not exactly the same, but
it kind of reminds me of Revis and Browner, where
like Revis was, you know, this guy that could cover
anybody he wanted, and I think Christian Gonzalez is that
type of dude, and Browner was just that physical you know,
jam and macnidean type of player. And as long as
you kept Browner in the right matchups, he was really

(22:50):
really effective. And I think the same thing is going
to be true with Carlton Davis.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
So I love it.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
I love the size on the outside, I love the
physicality he brings, the edge that he brings. This is
what they've been missing for multiple years now at that
second cornerback spot, Gonzo's rookie year. I'd be really going
back to twenty twenty two. I would say they've been
playing Miles Bryant, Marcus Jones, Jonathan Jones out on the

(23:16):
boundary at of necessity. So they have a guy now
in Carlton Davis that belongs out there, that belongs playing
in that spot. So that's exciting.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
And when they face some of these faster teams, like
we'll see what happens with Jonathan Jones, it still mix.
Maybe that's a game where Carlton Davis plays a little less,
Jonathan Jones plays a little more, they get another speedier corner
on the outside, is kind of an alternate to Carlton
Davis like they have they had They didn't need a
lot of corners, They just needed one guy to slot
everybody incorrectly. Bring Jonathan Jones back or some other speedier

(23:45):
you know, backup slot corner, and now you're in good
shape and you have a ton of options with how
you want to pick your matchups.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Right, they have Marcus Jones under contract, and I like,
just let's call for what it is. We're really talking
about Miami, right, And like when you go up against
Miami and you have Tyrak Kill and Jalen Wattle, we
know Gonzales can stay with Tyreek Hill, so he's probably
gonna cover Hill. Does Marcus Jones cover Jalen Wattle in
that matchup instead of Carlton Davis. I love the idea

(24:12):
potentially of Carlton Davis then playing more of like a
nickel role in that kind of game. Yeah, and having
some size inside when they go twelve personnel, they go heavy.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
And that's another thing about Davis. He's really good against
the run.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, you can play him against the run. He can
play tight ends like potentially like receiving tight ends. Like
I think that he has a size and the ability
to guard those types of players too inside, So maybe
in those types of matchups they move him around a
little bit to get him off of those speedy receivers.
I think that that could really be huge for them
if that's what they're able to do and those types

(24:45):
of things. All right, Robert Splane probably my favorite signing.
I know it sounds that's weird for me to be
that into an inside linebacker, but the linebacker play on
this team last year just drove me bananas. Yeah, I
just would pull my hair out every single Monday watching
the film back of their linebacker play last year. And

(25:06):
Spalane is one of those guys that just is all
over the ball all the time. I mean, he had
one hundred and fifty six tackles last year, and I
know tackles. Some people don't like the stat anymore, but
you don't make one hundred and fifty tackles by accident, right, Like,
if you're around the ball that much, good things are
happening when you're out there. Really underrated run defender, he's
sneaky good in zone coverage, like he's kind of got

(25:28):
like a nose for the football. Is five picks over
the last two years, mostly in zone coverage.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I think he had seventy nine pass breakups last year.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, I wouldn't put him in Manton man against like
tough assignments like if you have a pass catching running
back or dynamic tight ends and things like that. I
wouldn't necessarily say that he's smooth enough in terms of
that in coverage, but he's got a really good knack
over the middle of the field for those, you know,

(25:56):
those short zone drops, just kind of feeling out those
routes and being able to jump routes from those underneath spots.
He's two hundred and thirty pounds, so he's a little
bit more undersized, a little bit faster, a little bit
more sidelined to sideline to him than what they've had
in the past. But most of all, I just think
he plays like a maniac. Like I think he plays
with his hair on fire. He plays physical, he plays

(26:18):
through blocks, and that's something that they just didn't have
last year.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Old school line old school mentality, modern linebacker skill set.
Does that make sense? Like he is, he's I'm sure
he's a very nice guy, but on the field, mean
plays a nasty flies around, always near the football, doesn't
miss a chance to deliver a big hit. But he
can move. He can move, he can get sideline a sideline,

(26:42):
he can explode in the backfield when he needs And
the other thing is like a lot of these linebackers.
So the initial report was that the Patriots were in
on Jamien Sherwood. Yeah, Jamien Sherwoods two hundred and sixteen pounds. Yeah,
And that worried me a little bit. And I don't
like Sherwood's twenty five Splain's twenty nine. So there's something
to be said for upside and all that. But Splaine
six to one, two nine, Like, he's not small, he's

(27:02):
not big. He's not the two hundred and sixty pound
linebacker we're used to seeing here, you know, like Juwan Bentley,
but he still has some size to him and he
can still handle some of those old school linebacker roles.
So I I don't know, looking back on it, like,
did they almost end up better off? We're sure we're
going back to the Jets and ending up with Splaine.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
They definitely ended up with the more physical player. Yeah,
and Splaine and I also think that, you know, he's
one of those guys that plays with energy and plays
with like a joy to him a little bit. That
not saying that Surewood doesn't play with energy, but I
don't know if like Spolaine is gonna be one. I'm
telling you he's gonna be one of those guys that
is gonna get this place going a little bit. You know,

(27:43):
Like I think that he's gonna make some plays and
he's gonna get up out off the pile and be
screaming and stuff like that. He just has like an
edge to him.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
This is still unlike you forget. They don't show that
on the All twenty two.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
You know how bad the defense in the middle of
the field was last year.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
I couldn't they don't. This is what I always say
when you watch the All twenty two. You lose the
stuff in between the whistles, you lose penalties, you lose
like body language, emotion. But he is not a lot
of it on there.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
You know what it was.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
And I don't me wrong. I like that you have
the stage.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I like the player. I I mentioned this yesterday
on Unfiltered, but last year, you know me, I'll find
myself on a Monday night. Tuesday night when I'm doing
all my film stuff, for some reason, I'm watching The
Raiders Defense. Like no, no one knows why, Like why
did I end up here? I couldn't tell you, but

(28:34):
you know there's cross tape or whatever, and like they're
playing an offense and played the Raiders and I'm just
ending up here. Okay, So I'm ending up here on
the Raiders Defense. And every time you turned on the
film with the Raiders Defense, even over the last two years,
I would say this blame guy just keeps flashing, like
he keeps making plays.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
He just shows up.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
He's always around the ball and and he's he's sort
of like the film junkies, like the guys on Twitter
that are always posting clips and stuff like that. We
all kind of just love Splaine. Like I don't know
what it is. It just is one of those guys
that is underrated. And I set it off the top
of the show that it feels like somebody's paying attention again,
which is nice. I feel like somebody's watching the tape. Right.

(29:15):
We're not We're not just going out there and oh
I heard that guy right, Like we're actually going out
and watching film and understanding who these players are. And
Splaine is one of those guys. To me, that shows
that someone did some homework, Like this is a this
is a good poll, like this is yeah some you know. Oh,
like Zach Bond's a free agent, so we're just gonna
give Zach Bond.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
It's been underrated. It came into the league as Udfa
played two games with the Titans, went to Pittsburgh, started
off as he like a primary special teamer, worked his
way in rotation or all. He started all seventeen games
last few years for the Raiders. Like this is a
guy that built his way up quietly.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yep, absolutely all right, Uh that was the defense most Yeah,
that was. I want to talk about Tonga. So Tonga
a space eater, right, Like Tonga is a space heating
nose tackle.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
And so just when you're worried, I think you had
texted me this, yeah that, like you know, these are
good signings, right, they're bringing good players, nothing wrong with that,
but like, are they getting a little too small on defense?

Speaker 2 (30:13):
They were one big boys short yep on the defense.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Six foot four three eight pound chiris Tonga shows Yeah, every.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Once in a while, I got a feel for the league,
you know, every once in a.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
While, So you knew when you texted me that.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
No, I didn't say that.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Because it was like five minutes before they signed thex
SO Tonga, Like you said, space eater, big dude, gonna
clog rushing lands, great short yardage player.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
What I really like about the Tonga signing though, and
this is this is where my nerdom comes in. Like
they moved Von Godshaw who was a good player but
probably overpriced for what the role is that he was
going to play, especially in this defense, and they get
a significantly better value in Tonga and he's probably gonna
play the same apps that Devon Gotcha was gonna play.

(31:02):
So is it maybe a little bit worse of a player.
I guess you could make that case. But now they
have Milton Williams, now they have Harold Landry. And this
is just from a math standpoint or a financial standpoint,
Like to me, this is a shrewd move, like you
trim salary with Devon Gotshaw, but you still have a
Devon Godshaw type player in tongue.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah, yeah, they because he's just with Gosh Gotcha played
over fifty percent. Last year they played like fifty five percent.
This guy probably thirty percent of the place. Right, He's
just gonna be on the field when they need to
stop the run. That's it. You didn't need to pay
that guy they opened up this year. It's minimal, but
next year eight million dollars in gap. Uh, you didn't
need to be paying that for what that role is
gonna be and and and and tongs of the player.

(31:43):
He's gonna take up space and and that's what they needed.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
They needed another big body. I want to get to
what we still think they needs. I don't want to
keep on.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
I know we were gonna end up leaving off one
guy that no, no, no, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
I just meant like, I have a couple more they
still need, but on defense. But we'll to that in
a second. I want to do that separately, all right. Offensively,
Morgan Moses, who is like a agent like fine wine,
like he's an agent. Wonder his best years of his
career last year. Yeah, he plays for the most part,
he plays every game for like eleven straight years. Yeah,

(32:18):
it's pretty incredible. The durability. This was exactly what we
were talking about on the offensive line going into free agency,
just give me somebody that is an NFL player at
the position right And we were talking more about about tackle,
but I think you mentioned guard, and I've been big
on a left guard as a potential hole here. But
in terms of right tackle, just give me somebody who

(32:40):
is an NFL player at that position, uh not, not
someone that is off the scrap heap or off someone
else's you know, practice squad, an NFL player. And that's
exactly what Morgan Moses is. He's a people mover in
the run game, really really physical blocker. I think him
next to Mike gon When, who was a great run
blocking right side offensive line. Those guys on double teams

(33:02):
and gap schemes and things, they're gonna move some people
on that side of the line of scrimmage, which is good.
I think that's what Josh McDaniels wants. I think that's
what his offense wants. I always go back to his
ideal right side of Marcus Cannon and Shaq Mason, like
you just want two bulldozers over there that can really
move the line of scrimmage. I think they have that again,

(33:23):
and I watched Moses against Chop Robinson because that was
the one thing I had concerned kind of like with
Davis was speed. Just on the other side, I was
worried about the twitched up guys, like are those speed
rushers like a Chop Robinson at thirty four years old,
is he still meeting them, you know, at the junction
point of the rush, and is he still able to

(33:43):
protect his edge against Chop Robinson. And chop Robinson got
him a few times. But I thought that he did
pretty well and held up pretty well, really good, you know,
out of his stand still. I think he gains plenty
of ground. There still blocks inside out, so you're not
seeing a lot of like really quick losses on his tape,
and that's encouraging. It's you're not gonna get those like

(34:05):
blowbys where it's just no contest. So I know, think
he's the most fleet of foot at this point. He's
not a great uh lateral, you know, redirect athlete, so
he's gonna have some issues with those types of guys sometimes,
but again, he's not gonna get blown by consistently, at
least professional player, professional solid player a little bit older.

(34:26):
I doubt he plays the whole three years of the contract,
but they just needed somebody to get them the level
at one of those tackle spots, and he'll do that.
It's not a position, and we're not gonna at least
one spot we know we're not gonna have to go
into camp when tackle spot that we know we're not
gonna have to go in to camp and be like,
all right, well, this guy's the favorite, but this guy
could win the RP.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
No Morgan Moses. If Morgan Moses is losing that spot,
something probably went unexpectedly wrongly. Yeah, that's his job. Yeah,
solid player. Gives them another year to develop Kane Wallace
if they want, although maybe they end up moving him
to guard or something like that, but gives them some
flexibility there, walks Mike O and whnu Wint right guard

(35:05):
for the first time in his NFL career. Mike went
who can spend the entire offseason preseason just focusing on
one position? Right, should spend the entire offseason? Uh, preseason
focusing on one position. You talked a lot about pass
pro there. I think you're gonna have a lot of
fun running off that right side between on When and
Morgan Moses. I think there's a lot of potential there.

(35:27):
Solid signing, solid signing. Not you know, nobody's doom cart
wheels or anything, but like box checked for sure, that
box is checked. Good right tackle for this year, not
a question.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah. How relieving is that to have a good spot
to not have to go into the camp and well
it could you know they've drafted Wallace in the third
round and you know they have you know, this veteran
that's Riley Reef over there gets waved.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
And yeah, no not not not at right tackle. We'll
see that left. Yeah, not doing that at right tackle. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
The last thing on Moses that I really like talking
to Brandon Thorne, who's kind of my my O line
guy that I like to pick his brain a lot
about this kind of stuff. And uh he he did
point out that really good in the room, like a
really good leader. He's going to take these guys that
they draft, you know, they draft a rookie left tackle,
Caden Wallace in his second season, Laden Robinson in his

(36:22):
second season. Uh, he's going to take these guys under
his wing. He's going to show him the ropes. He's
going to teach them how to be professionals. And I
think that that's important. I think that's a good part
of that as well. Good culture guy experienced steady Brandon
Nudd every year does a O line rankings and he
had he had everybody in tears, and uh, Moses was

(36:46):
in his average NFL starter tier, which I think is
exactly what he is. You know, he's a steady, reliable,
average right tackle in the league, which is so much
better than what they had last year. So we're in
proving there in that spot as well. And you know,
we'll get to the rest of the line here in
the second which is still a big question marking a

(37:06):
big concern Mac Collins. This one is I'm okay with it.
I know it's not what everybody wants out a wide receiver.
I know that a lot of people, you know, I
posted some clips of him on Twitter and everybody was like,
don't try to convince us that this guy is a
wide receiver one. You know, no one's trying to convince

(37:26):
you that Matt Collins is the cure to all their
ills at the wide receiver position. But similar to what
we were just talking about with Moses, this is a
professional receiver that goes about things the right way. From
everything that everybody has talked about and in terms of
that side of it. How much of a mess that
receiver room was last year on and off the field.

(37:48):
This is a guy you're not gonna have to worry
about in terms of the off field locker room stuff.
And I actually think that he's got some sneaky juice.
Like it's not great, Like I'm not again, no one's
trying to convince you that Collins is the answer. But
some of the stuff that I saw on film, I
took me by surprise a little bit. Like he's got

(38:08):
a little bit of speed and some juice off the
line of scrimmage, you know, really good accelerator off the line,
and he's got some wiggle against press. He's got size,
you know, in the red zone. He's six foot four,
kind of five touchdowns last year for Buffalo. So I
do think that he is a guy that can be
used in the red zone as that type of player,
especially if he's gonna run routes out of that like

(38:30):
big slot role. Right you put him inside almost like
a tight end and have him, you know, run seams
and and cuts and stuff like that down by the
goal line. He's got a nice catch radius and size
to him. It plays on special teams. You know he's
gonna be a four down player for you. I had
really good production with Josh McDaniels.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Solid, solid depth, Yeah, solid on spectacle. I saw a
lot of people felt strongly about this one one way
or the other, and I just I couldn't find it
either way. Like, he definitely checks and boxes they need
to check six four two twenty one because you size
in that room. He is probably is his safe stays
the only true X on the roster. I know they

(39:08):
played Kishon Booty out there, but that's because they don't
have anybody else, right.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, No, he's He's the guy that can definitely play
the X. I think he's better as a big slot,
which I feel like as we say that a lot.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Well he hasn't, but he hasn't done that a lot
in his career.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
No, but I thought that, you know, in Buffalo last year,
I was I thought that was his best tape was
playing inside. I think that that way there. You know,
his speed in his size against nickel corners or safeties
is a lot harder to defend for guys that play
full time on the outside at defensive back, Like when
he gets into the inside part of the field. I

(39:42):
at six foot Fouries, he's got some girth. You know,
he's got some size to him.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
I guess they need somebody to play the X. And again,
either way, he brings size that they didn't have. He
bring experience. Uh, he brings that veteran leadership, and he
can play on special teams. They still need to do
a ton oft receivers. This doesn't really answer any of
the talent questions, but they needed depth in that room.
They needed somebody to push some of these younger guys
and bring in competition for them for more rotational roles.

(40:07):
I think he does that, but I mean this is
not a replacement for metcalf or Higgins or any of
those guys.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
No, and it will be interesting and uh when we
talk about, well, you know what's going on, what's gonna
happen next here they have bodies at receiver, I'm not
saying they have any answers. And I want to keep
putting that out there until somebody eclipses and says, oh,
he said that they're fine at receiver. No, they have
a lot, a lot of They need a lot more
at receiver. But all of a sudden, I was texting

(40:37):
you last night about the you know, potential depth charts
and things like that. Uh, you know, what are you
gonna do with Booty? I actually even throw Kendrick Bourne
in this category, right, Kendrick Bourne, Booty Polk, Baker, like
those four guys, Yeah, because you're gonna have I would

(40:57):
think another draft pick at wide receiver, I would think, uh,
that's gonna make the.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Roster unless unless it's a high draft pick. Do you
need one? Like, like, what good does it do them
to take another receiver in the fourth round?

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Well, this is my point, right is like you know
everybody's throwing out there, you know, sign Cooper Cup, draft
Ted McMillan. Like, I'm not saying don't, but I'm not
saying don't do those things. Yeah, I'm just saying that
when you start to really think about it, there's the
numbers there. You're gonna be giving up on on a
young player there that you just drafted, and probably Javon

(41:30):
Baker is probably the most likely guy. But still like
that that foursome of Bourne, Polk, Booty Baker. If you
go into the season thinking that right now, MATC Collins
and Pop Douglas I think are on the team yes, right,
And my guess is that they're gonna either sign or
trade or draft one more receiver that's gonna be on

(41:50):
the team. So you're really talking about two or three
spots that are left over there. MATC. Collins is already
sort of your fringe wide receiver for a special team guy, right,
So that spot's kind of already taken up. So you're
talking about two more true receivers that aren't gonna just
be kicking game contributors, making the roster out of four guys.

(42:11):
So someone between that foursome is gonna be is gonna
be out, And maybe that's for the best. Like I'm
not saying that that's necessarily a bad thing. It's just
something to consider when you start hearing, oh, they need
to double dip out receiver again, or they need to
sign this guy and draft that guy, like they're starting
to get the numbers are starting to get a little crazy, right, Yeah,

(42:33):
So I'm just interested to see how that all pans out.
But we'll get to more of that here in a second.
Let's wrap this up, Josh Dobbs, is the last move here,
and how are you feeling about the Manhattan Project Because
we're starting to get a little bit sweaty about this,
alex that your guy's not going to be here. Joe
Milton is who we're talking right.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
If they get a good return for Joe Milton, he
goes somewhere, he's gonna have a chance to start, like,
I'd be incredibly happy for him. Yeah, and I think
it validates what Alexander did and what they did last
year taking them probably that was always the point. Right
when they drafted Joe Milton, we said, like, best case scenario,
you have a couple of showcase games, warm in the
preseason or late in the season, and he goes out

(43:12):
and you get back more than you drafted him. So
I'd be happy for him if they're able to do that. Now,
I'm not rushing that guy out the door. I think
there's value in having a good backup quarterback, and his
value I think can still go up and maybe you
get more. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
For anything less than one hundred and the top one
hundred pick, I just think you're spinning your tires to

(43:33):
what to go ahead and draft Brady Cook in the
seventh round and just start the process over. So I
wouldn't They definitely have more flexibility now because they have
another backup quarterback in place if they do trade Joe Milton,
if somebody blows them away. That being said, I would
not rule out the idea that they want to keep
three quarterbacks. Yeah, so what most teams do now when
you have that emergency quarterback rule on game days, teams

(43:55):
want to take advantage of that. It's not like they're
going to have a roster crunch. They're still kind of
building this thing up. And Josh Dobbs gives you a
veteran in that room. This is a guy that's the
Patriots or is eleventh NFL team? Yeah right, he's he
he's only played what five six NFL seasons, but there's
a lot of experience packed in there, and he's gonna
be a good mentor not mentor, but like good veteran

(44:18):
voice in the room for Drake May and Joe Milton.
He gives you an opportunity to have that third emergency
quarterback on game days. Stylistically, he's a fit with the
other two, so you're not gonna have to really have
him do things differently. What better you have two guys
with rocket arms to have a rocket scientist teach them
how to go about their their game.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Right, So how long have you been rehearsing that one?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I came up with it about ten minutes after they
signed him. Yeah, they like could they It makes it
Joe Milton trade easier. And maybe that's down the road.
Maybe that's at the end of camp, some team gets antsy.
Maybe I mean, at the time we're doing this podcast,
Rogers is still out there, Wilson's still out there, and
we'll see what happens with Kirk Cousins. Then you have
the draft. Maybe you get a team that you know,

(45:00):
get shaky and says, you know what, we we got
to give up more than we want because we've got
to come out of this with a quarterback. We're missing
on everybody. But so maybe maybe it gives them the
flexibility if the right offer comes along. But I don't
think they're going to north Should they just rush Joe
Milton out the door? What I said the other night
on Twitter, don't just trade Joe Milton for the best
you can get. Trade Joe Milton because somebody is giving

(45:22):
you a reason to trade Joe Milton, right if the
best offer is still not like significant, you really don't
need to be in a rush to trade him. And
the other thing I'll add to this just the Dobbs
signing as a whole, Like he got two years, eight million,
which is solid. It's not starting money, but it's solid
backup quarterback money. Sam Darnold got a hundred million dollars.
You saw somebody give up a fifth round pick for

(45:44):
Kenny Pickett. Yeah, these teams are going hard into the
veteran quarterback.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Market because they're terrified of the draft class.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Which might be so glass half fall a glass half empty.
These teams are going hard into the veteran quarterback market,
which might be a good sign for the Patriot because
it means none of the teams like the quarterbacks, which
means they won't go at the top of the draft.
The bad news for the Patriots is all the teams
winning the deals for these quarterbacks and trading for them
are not the teams at the top of the draft.
So do they get desperate and take somebody or does

(46:14):
it show you that those teams maybe feel better about
the quarterbacks that are available.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
So I'm with you on Joe. I'm in no rush
to trade Joe Millen now if somebody comes in with
a second or third round pick, I would obviously strongly
consider a top one hundred, you know, value worth it maybe,
But I'm in no rush to trade Joe Millon. And
I look at Joe Millon the same way that I'm
sure in a lot of ways Bill Belichick looked at

(46:40):
Jimmy Garoppolo, or at the time, you're right over there
you get water Piper Jacoby Brissett, you know at the
time as well, like, don't trade them until you have
to trade them, right, if you.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Could get like a Phillip Dorset equivalent, actually that'd be great.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
But just don't don't be in any rush. Like you
have a affordable rookie cost controlled rookie contract, backup quarterback
with upside, So don't don't be in this huge rush
to trade him. Now. Again, if if a team blows
you away with an offer that's ridiculous, you know, like
a second round pick comes over, you know, across the table.
Of course, you do it, right, But I don't be

(47:16):
in any rush. I don't buy some of this stuff
out there that Joe Milton sees himself as a starter
and like it's going to like cause issues in the
room with Drake May. I don't necessarily think that that's
the type of guy Joe Milton is.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I think that's more like an eventually thing, like eventually
he'd like to go somewhere where he has a start,
a chance to start, which of course he does. Yeah,
but I don't think like it needs to be right now, because,
like you said, that's just not the kind of guy
that he is. The only team I wonder like if
he sees a chance to go to the Rams and
get back with the alex man Pelt and continue on
the development path he was on last year, and you know,

(47:55):
Matthew Stafford, who knows how much longer he's going to
be there, that might be something that enticing.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yeah. So last year when I wrote our feature on
Joe Milton, when they drafted him, and so I was
talking to some people down at the Senior Bowl about
him because he was down at the Senior Bowl, And
that was when I first started to get on the
bandwagon with you, if you remember correctly. So every year
at the Senior Bowl they hand out like a good
Guy Award, basically just one of the players that was

(48:22):
just above and beyond around around everybody. The re meeting
around the meeting rooms, the locker room. You're just a
great guy to be around.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Good.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, cool, Hang right, guess who won that award? Joe Milton.
So that you're telling me that that guy is now
going to start to try to strum up some quarterback
controversy between him and Drake May, I just don't. That's
not the vibe that I've gotten talking to people at
Michigan Tennessee, the Senior Bowl all throughout that process, that
he was the type of guy that was going to

(48:51):
do that. And I think that was part of the
reason why they felt comfortable double dipping and drafting him
last year because they didn't think that he was going
to cause a whole hullrible that he should be starting.
So I wouldn't be worried too much about that. But again,
if somebody blows you away with an offer that you
can't refuse, and you take it, but don't don't trade
Joe Millon for a fourth round pick just to trade him,

(49:12):
because then I think you have to draft another quarterback again, right,
and so then you're just using that pick to draft
another Joe Milton. So just keep Joe.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Milton, and there is not another Joe Milton in the draft.
There won't be another Joe Milton in the draft for
a long long time.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yeah, he's a unique time, he is. He is. All right,
let's got to do some of these atterides and then
we're gonna take your phone calls because I know you
guys have been waiting. I know, I know you guys
have been waiting. And I also know we're coming up
on another weekend without football. So why not spend the
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(49:44):
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(50:07):
of the New England Patriots, and bud Light Easy to Drink,
Easy to Enjoy. Bud Light, the official beer sponsor of
the New England Patriots. You are big on the I'm
just gonna randomly have this football around and I'm gonna
toss it to do.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
I do like to have a football around usually, just
because especially if I'm just like sitting on the couch
watching games, I just, you.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Know, are you visioning that you're you're gonna be playing
in this?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I mean, I'm always I know, I'm just always tempted
during the show to go take one of those footballs
off the wall and just kind of having my hands
during the show.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Our mouse is not working, manby, Marie can pull up
the calls. Mouse isn't working. Uh, you can pull up, Patty.
We'll just go in order.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
It's not on.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I turned it on and then I turned it off
and it still doesn't work. Oh, we got it. Okay,
you're there, all right, all right, my bad, All right now.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Screener, you definitely are hi, guys doing today?

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Good good?

Speaker 3 (51:05):
All right. I just want to give a couple of
quick shout outs and then I'll get to my question.
A big shout out to Chester and Portland. You know.
He he basically said I was an idiot for not
looking more into Mac Collins and when I did. The
guy is kind of a character, and you know, maybe
I didn't gi him as much credit as he was

(51:25):
giving him. And if you look like in twenty twenty
two he had his best year with Josh, so maybe
that's positive going forward with him. You know, I'm not
saying he's gonna be Brandon Lafel or you know, any
anything in that mold, but you know, maybe we can
get some good, solid production for him. And I think
this guy might end up being a fan favorite. And

(51:46):
and the YouTube comments, let me shout out old Man
Mob because that guy's always on point. Now let's get
to my questions. Guys. Do you guys The first question
is do you think with the moves that we made
with Robert Splane, do you think Juwan Bentley still has
a role on this team, Because if it comes down
between him and Jilanni to buy I I actually want

(52:08):
to buy off this team. Like I don't want him
on here. Call me petty, but I don't like what.
I don't like how he presented as fans last last season.
You know, we're the ones that pay his salary, and
sometimes football, you know, football players need to get that
through their head that we're the ones that come to
the games, We're the ones that buy the jerseys, We're

(52:29):
the ones that watched the games on TV that that
helped this you know, ad revenue go through and help
get these guys paid. So I want I just want
him gone. And my second question is this is kind
of crazy. Let's say something absolutely bonkers happens at the
top of the draft and Will Campbell, Abdull Carter, and

(52:50):
Travis Hunter are all sitting there at number four. Who
do you take.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Off your guys? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Twice about it. He's the best player in the draft.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah, I would take Abdul Carter too. In terms of linebacker,
I don't know if there's any plans of releasing Tavai
or moving on from Bentley or anything like that. I
still see that Bentley and Spoayne can play together. Yeah,
I think Bentley is your mic Splain's your weak side
linebacker playing you know, in a four to two in

(53:25):
this defense. Maybe that means to Vay and Spolayne are
kind of in a competition for who is the best,
you know, compliment to Bentley there. But I still see
a role for Bentley on this team.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Bentley will still have a role, might be reduced. I mean,
he was playing ninety percent of the stamps before I got hurt.
Lest year, like that's gonna go down like sixty five seventy,
I would think, But he still has a role for sure.
I don't know if there's a role for Jelanne to Vai. Yeah,
I just don't know, especially when you consider anything that
happened last year, you're going to keep that guy around
in a backup role where he's not playing a ton
where he's probably gonna get frustrated. You know. I don't

(53:58):
know that, like you said, is anything imminent, I don't know.
But when we get around a training camp, we're talking
about guys on the bubble. If he's still here at
that point, that's definitely somebody I'd put us on the bubble.
If i'd do a roster projection today, I don't know
that i'd have him on the team.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. DeShawn is in Virginia. What's up
to Sean?

Speaker 4 (54:18):
Oh gods, how do you guys doing?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Hate good?

Speaker 4 (54:22):
I want to talk about three thirds. First, is the
safety part or whatever I mean? I have a hard
time understanding and the reason why they need to try
to go out to read because like it's been all
of something they had a traditional safety I ring your
city like that could cover out in space from sideline
to sideline, you know, that could like defend the run
as well as the past. So I'm smartly didn't go
out to read because douggars stucks. And I've been saying
this for a long time that they should have traded

(54:43):
him last year. Now, when it comes to certain things
about like far as, like the live backer situation, whatever,
I feel like guys like Ellis Mapoo would benefit this
year because I have more help wanting to defend the
times so ecthetic resport I said, they could play there
respectable roles better because of that of them boosting the
defense like that. Now, when when it comes to the offense,
we want to talk about you know, uh Holland. But

(55:06):
a lot of these guys I feel like would be
great if they had a number one receiver because they'd
been a player respectable roles as well. At the same
thing was apply to the offense. But the probably they
don't have a number one receiver to help everybody refill
their respectful role. That's the issue that's basically going on.
That's all I wanted to say.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Thanks to Sean, thanks for the call. Yeah, I think
as safety where we're all hoping that a true center
fielder is coming. You know, it's not gonna be. It's
not gonna be John Jevon Holland obviously he's not. I
think he's mentioned Justin Reed, who Yeah, did he sign somewhere?

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, where'd he go? I don't know where he went.
I know he signed.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
So you know, those guys aren't gonna be it. But
I don't know as I could see a vision where
it's not a full time player Justin Reid went to
the Saints, but that dron harmon role of uh, we're
gonna play an obvious past, you know, third down, two minutes,
four minute offenses at the end of games, you know,

(56:03):
that sort of thing, which is usually factors into a
good chunk of the snaps when you really think about it.
In those scenarios, I definitely think that that player could
be had. Like you mentioned, what's it a Cuba, right, Andrew.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
So the two guys I look at, yes, right, if
they want to go in the first round, I guess
there'd be three. If they want to go in the
first round, it's Malachai Starks, but he's going to be
a top fifteen pick, so they it's not happening without
a ton of movement. Andrew mccooba from Texas in the
second round thirty eight might be a little rich, but
if they kind of hammer out some other needs here,
not totally out of character, Probably better off moving back

(56:40):
into the fifties and moving up from seventy to the
fifties for him. And then the Day three guys would
be early Day three probably at one oh six would
be Billy Bowman from Oklahoma. He is going to be
a true rotational player. I think mccuba maybe grows into
that guy that can play eighty five to ninety percent
of the time. Billy Bowman's gonna be rotational. You're gonna
be able to play him on the back end. He's
also going to be able to give you some hell
up in the slot. But I think he's a player

(57:02):
that could, certainly, if you're gonna do that situationally, fill
that role.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, I think that for right now. I don't think
they necessarily need anything more than a Deron Harmon in
terms of snap usage and playing over the top. So
I would be comfortable with like a mid round guy
like Billy Bowman in that spot. Starks is interesting to
me because I do wonder if his combine pushes him
down kind of like Brian branch treatment style.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
That bad? Was it?

Speaker 2 (57:29):
He didn't run very well?

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Didn't Brian Branch run like a four to six? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:33):
No, I would say Brian Branch was more in trouble
than him. Maybe, yeah, But Stark says, I still feel like,
if I can look it up, but if I remember
correctly off the top of my head, he had one
of those trust the tape type of combines, and there
are yeah, like there are some things on his tape too.
I didn't actually think that his tape was it didn't

(57:56):
blow me away.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Four or five flat thirty three inch vertical having two
three cone four four or five shots.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Yeah, it's not great. That's not great for you know,
a guy that's supposed to be playing in space in
the NFL. Right, So I would say that there's a
chance that Stark slips a little bit. Was he gonna
slip all the way to thirty eight? Like? Probably not,
but especially in a draft like this, But there's a
chance just because of that combine that you know, the

(58:23):
athletic testing knocks him down a little bit. Like when
I first started the process with the draft I it
starts was on my short list of guys because of
you know, top ten, top fifteen consideration. I didn't think
the tape was like that eye opening to me. I
wasn't blown away by what I saw. A good pursuit
player against the run has some versatility to you know,

(58:44):
he can play the nickel, he can play up top,
he can play in the box. He had some issues
with the angles and you know, tracking the ball down
the field from his perch, and it got beat badly
in that Texas game. I think it was I think
it was golden. That sounds right, yeah, and he just
he dove, you know for the ball and as it

(59:05):
over the top, missed it and then you know, sixty
yard touchdown right behind him. So there was some like
little things like that with his film that I didn't
think were It wasn't blown away, which was there, Like Branch.
Branch was a hell of a college player like that.
That was all overthink with the combine. If stars fell
a little bit, I don't think it would be as

(59:25):
much of an overthink for teams. So we'll see about that.
Paul is in Wallthams, I'd say, I don't know. I
just went blind for some reason. Paul, what's up?

Speaker 4 (59:34):
Thank guys.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
How you doing. I just got one quick question for
you coming out of this first few days of creagency.
What would you rank the three to four biggest holes
on the roster still and how would you rank them
in terms of we need this sorted by August first
we can try again next to season.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah. Thanks for the call, Paul. That's a great segue
because that's exactly what I wanted to talk about next.
So I think four is a good number. That's right
about where I'm at right now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
The two biggest are obviously wide receiver and left tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
You're going to order though I'd flip those.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Uh yeah, I probably would too. But I think the
difference is to me, is that at left tackle, like
if they signed, if they acquired, whatever way they go
about it, a Morgan Moses level talent to play left tackle,
I'd be okay with that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
That Cam Robinson.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Maybe it's Cam Robinson, I don't know. We can talk
about Cam Robinson here in.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Not Cam Robinson. I don't know who it is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
But my point is is that if they got NFL
average left tackle, I'd feel okay, whereas NFL average at
wide receiver. Isn't enough, right, they already have that. They
need better talent that wide receiver, Whereas I think you
can get away with having NFL average at the tackle spots,
so that that might be the one little difference in
terms of order there for me. But wide receiver left tackle,

(01:00:54):
I'm still gonna be pounding the table for an interior linement.
I whether it's a center, it's a guard. So sign
somebody that in this veteran market that has played the position. Again,
just like Morgan Moses, like, just give me someone that
has played the position at an NFL starting level.

Speaker 6 (01:01:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
It can be average, it can be adequate, but I
just want a body there that I can trust, sure
that I'm not putting all of my eggs in Cole Strange,
Leyden Robinson City. So Ben Brown, you know, to pull
out two starters from that group. Let's pull out one
starter from that group instead of two, And I feel
a lot better. On the defense side of the ball,

(01:01:33):
I still think they're an edge rusher short. I think
they need a pass rusher off the edge. It doesn't
they have enough, you know, Landry Anthony Jennings. They have
enough edge setters, somebody's just gonna pin his years back
third down Joshua Roll. You know, someone that's gonna be
a really good situational pass rush.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
But that like I don't know if we're just doing freegency,
Like I feel really good about finding that guy on daytieh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
No draft is open on this as well. I would
say that that's a draft pick, you know, whether it's
somebody h on Day two on the second round. I
mean as Iraku princely, I'm not going to try to
pronounce his last name, and there we go. Who I
really liked by the way I watched him, every little
bit of recency bias with him, but I watched him

(01:02:18):
recently but before free agency. He's a good player.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
He's in the YouTube check because they can literally get
josh Uchek.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm a free agent. Yeah, we've done that.
But those two guys, you know, I don't know if
as Iraku will make it to thirty eight. He might
be a late first.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
If this is a thing where there's so many good
edge rushers that guys get there's so many limits at
other positions like receiver even quarterback right that guys get
pushed down because teams are okay being patient.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Yeah, I'm not totally ruling out your Ohio State guys yet.
I don't think it's exactly what they need for the Yeah,
but I don't know if how much they're gonna trust
Keon White as a four to three n YEA canon
the dirt player. Jack Sawyer is definitely that, you know,
he's a hand in the dirt four three end. So
maybe if they look at it in terms of projecting

(01:03:09):
starting roles years from now, right like two years from now,
three years from now, maybe you could go in that
direction still, But I think we're all kind of gravitating
now more towards Princely Donovan Azarouki as a rock O
shore third round. You know my guy Josiah Stewart, you know,

(01:03:30):
just like a screamer off the edge like that I
think would go a long way. And and we've mentioned
free safety multiple times, like I feel like free safety
is still one of those positions that they can get,
they can get better at, and have somebody that is
truly comfortable playing center field.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
If I was gonna do like the Big four right now,
rank them left tackle wide receiver, but like a starting
wide receiver, not some guy that's gonna plug into the
middle of the depth chart right, muddy things further right,
left tackle unquestioned. Top of the depth chart. Wide receiver
would be two, free safety would be three, guard would
be four. And then I'll also just sneak in there.
And these are drafts specific. I do still want to

(01:04:09):
see them even though Austin Hooper's back, I do still
want to see them draft the tight end. I want
to see them tap into this class and get the
next guy in the pipeline because Henry and Hooper both
over thirty, and I do want to see them draft
a running back, get some more depth in that room,
and also maybe push Stevenson and Gibson on the depth chart.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Well that was you know, another good thing kind of
byproduct of what they did on Day one at free
agency is I feel like they still have enough picks
that they can make some of those luxury They have
some flexibility to do that because they don't need to
desperately sign or draft like three defensive linemen because they
didn't get anybody in free agency, or you know, get
a run stuffing linebacker in the draft, which I thought

(01:04:47):
was maybe like a sneaky need for the team. So
I look at you know, outside corner, another one.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Like that bus to check.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
They easily could have drafted a Carlon Davis type player
on Day two or or you know, middle rounds of
this draft because out of necessity, because they needed to
fill that hole. Now they don't because of the way
that they've handled free agency so far. So they can
take a running back over the top. They can take
a tight end you know, even still and add him
to that room. And maybe it's more of a competition

(01:05:17):
with Jahem Bell, you know, to make the roster there
at tight end, or maybe all four of them make
the roster.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
I again, forget about Robbie, you know full back. Would
you would you be in on them signing use check.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
I said this yesterday and everybody mocked me because I
think I called him Kyle. Then yeah, I called him
Kyle and say, you know, first name basis right, Kyle Shanahan. Uh.
It worries me that Kyle Shanahan thinks that he's cooked.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Like if Kyle Shanahan think that he's cooked, or they
just totally hitting the reset.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Button over there, Kyle, that's like a that's like Kyle
Shanahan's like fifth son, Like you're like, I don't how
many sons he had. I just made that number up
like that that. But you know what I'm trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
If Kyle Shanahan Robbie and is clearing the way, no,
I like, I remember.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
A couple of years ago. This was a long time ago.
You know, we're getting old. It's probably like around twenty nineteen. Yeah,
twenty twenty. I was at the Combine and this was
when Bill was still here. So Belichick never talked at
the Combine. So you never had any real Patriots stuff.
Well you know the drill now, so you never had
any Patriot stuff on that Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
So I would just you know, bounce around this guy.
Go to the Giants because Odell Beckham might get traded.
Go here because that guy might get traded. And of
course when Kyle Shanahan talked, you know, you know where,
I was front and center, and I asked him about
fullbacks and like his how he uses fullbacks, and this
guy wax poetic about Kyle used checking the full back.

(01:06:47):
And he told me at that time that he will
never have a roster that doesn't feature a fullback, like
he will always have a fullback on his team. Period.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
So everybody in Francisco forty nine at rob uotss coming, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Thinks Kyle used Check is probably the best fullback in football,
maybe in the history of football. And and you're telling
me that Kyle Shanahan is cutting that player like that.
That speaks to me then tells me that he might
be he might be cooked, he might be washed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
So is Deebo cooked? Then can we say that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
I think that's a little because I took him for
saying that, is it. Kyle Shanahan's giving up on him?
Apparently this is the rule's moving on from players they're
cold back like that. That's different.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
I I think you just got to take corner and
saying no.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
It's different. It's a different. It's not different, it's different.
I don't understand how. So Deebo Samuel might be washed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
That's all right? So well I got yelled at for
saying that. So this is what can we say Deebo's
watch Then if we're saying that, this means Kyle used
Check is washed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Before we go back to the funds, I want to
go back to those needs that we talked about to
start throwing some names out there. Well, let's start with
wide receiver. I think we have to talk about the
Cooper Cup of it all. Uh Cup check if you will?

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
How long even hold on an that one?

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
I thought of that one last night. I think we
have to we talk talk about it if we're honest
about the type of player that Cooper Cup is now.
And if you look at his advanced metrics, you know, separation,
yards after the catch, contested catchability, it is a precipitous

(01:08:23):
drop year after year from twenty twenty one his nineteen
hundred yards season. Right, yeah, we're from twenty twenty one.
Each year gets progressively worse in terms of the analytics
of it all is getting older. So you look at
all that and you look at a team like the Rams,
who won no offense better than maybe anybody, and maybe

(01:08:46):
the brightest offensive mine in the league running the team
in Sean McVay and two are one of the most
analytically driven organizations in the league. They are telling you
that Cooper Cup can't run anymore, is what I'm worried about.
Their metrics, their their science is telling you that he
has no more burst, or he doesn't have the same burst. Right,

(01:09:08):
that would be concerning to me, all these things are
concerning to me. With that being said, I'm coming around
to the idea of whether it's Cooper Cup, it's Stefan Diggs,
it's Amari Cooper, one of these aging star receivers for
a team like the Patriots that keeps striking out at

(01:09:29):
this position, you know, Godwin metcalf A, Yuke Ridley, Like
Dyuke's out there again. Apparently they might need to take
a chance on one of these guys, is my point.
And I think the hope would be that he is
able to still be like a wide receiver too on
a depth chart. Yeah, and then maybe in the draft,
and this is kind of my other big take about

(01:09:51):
wide receiver, maybe in the draft you go out and
get the guy, you know, the true number one receiver.
But at this stage of his career, can Cooper Cup
be the number two guy? Like? Can he be a
number two guy? I'm willing to take that chance if
the money is right. And I would also mention that

(01:10:11):
I think he's a really good fit in the slot
for Josh McDaniels. I think that he understands space and
he understands how to find soft spots and zones. I
think he understands how to run option routes. Certainly understands
how to run option routes. That's all he ran for
Sean McVay, you know, or those choice routes in their offense.
So he understands and has a great feel for the

(01:10:33):
middle of the field. Like I do think stylistically he's
a nice fit with McDaniels, Like if Godwin was like
the apex of this player that might be available, it
would make sense for them to pivot stylistically to Cooper
Cup And Okay, now you don't necessarily need to have
him via trade, right, you can just get him if
he's released at four o'clock. So I'm coming around to

(01:10:53):
the idea of just taking a flyer on one of
these guys and hoping that the fountain of youth, you know, delivers,
you know, for a year or two.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Yes, you know. I at this point, I'm kind of like,
all right, well, you choose between the age with Cup.
I'm done, I'm out of the Mari Cooper. I don't
think Mark Coop is gonna give you anything. Yeah, you're
choosing between the age with Cup and the injury concerned
with Stefan Diggs. I think those are your two options.
I am very much on the record. Just be nervous
about wide receivers coming off injury. I said about Godwin,

(01:11:20):
I said about Ayuk. Everybody knows how much I like Diggs,
how great of a player I think he is. I
think the character stuff's overblown. I mean, he was named
a captain last year in his first year in Houston. Like, yeah,
he's a littles center, Show me good receiver. That isn't right.
The guy clearly locked in when because the way then
the buffalo? But was that his fault? Or is everybody's

(01:11:43):
golden boy? Maybe not his gold and his play? Did
joel and beat m VP?

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
He I I don't know this.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
This isn't necessarily me saying sign Stefan Diggs because it's
coming off the torn a cl When will he be ready?
You've seen them try to do this with guys before.
But if it comes down to Diggs or Cup, I
think he can make as strong a case for either.
I don't know that I would say I would consider
Diggs as strongly I was as I would consider Cup.
But I don't know that. I'm I feel strongly one

(01:12:14):
way or the other. Like I wouldn't hate seeing them
at one of those guys at this point what things
have come to. But I don't know. You want to
tell me that a cut makes sense because he fits
more in the offense and he's at least healthy or
healthier and fine, you want to tell me Diggs is
the answer because he's more of what they need in
theory when he's healthy, and he has more upside as

(01:12:36):
that number one guy and he's not quite as old.
I could buy that argument too. I don't know I
could go either way on either one of them, but
I would consider them both equally.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Stefan Diggs was better last year, no doubt about it.
Like Stefan Diggs was still a top fifteen receiver in
the league when he was healthy last year, so he
certainly has a much higher ceiling. Like Stefan Diggs, you
could sign him and if he somehow bounces back with
no setbacks or anything like that from the ACL, he's
a number one receiver. Cooper Cup isn't at anymore. I

(01:13:04):
think the biggest thing that you see with Cooper Cup
on tape is he used to be a demon after
the catch, right Like he would catch the ball and
he'd be shot out of the cannon. He run those
like five to six yard option routes, you know, those
juke routes as wiggle routes over the middle, and he
would catch it and he would just be out of
the of the of the gates. He's not he doesn't
have that kind of juice anymore. So now on third

(01:13:27):
and three, when he catches that option rout over the middle,
he might get you four yards, yeah, but he's not
getting you fourteen, whereas in twenty twenty one he was
getting you fourteen twenty twenty twenty five yards after the catch,
and that was you know why he had such a
great season. But he's not that player anymore. He can
still move the chains, he's just not going to run

(01:13:48):
by anybody or run through anybody. Stefan des can still
be a number one receiver just because he's healthier and
you're not worried about the whole ACL recovery and all that.
I'd probably lean towards Scooper Cup just a little bit,
but I hear I I wouldn't I opposed to either.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
At this point, you're kind of crossing your fingers and
hoping either way, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Yeah, So but I think they're in a position where
they need to cross their fingers and hope, So why
not get the guy that may be hopeful a little
bit more just because I think he's gonna be available
to start the season. Like, I think that's big.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
And also, so here's the flip side of it. I
think you could argue that we broke this down before
and we were talking about mac Hollins, like you're gonna
have this roster crunch. Yeah, this is sort of what
they did with Kendrick Borne last year. Well, now you
kind of save a roster spot. You see in September,
who's who works in this new system from the young
guys who doesn't, and then Diggs comes in once you

(01:14:40):
kind of have that all figured out, like you're not
losing that much. So Diggs got hurt in October, right Halloween? Yeah,
so he again is the same time Kendrick Bourne did. Right,
So kenn Bourne came back and what he's a player.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Like he's not gonna So that means no off season program,
no training camp, no preseason.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Like you you start to build these things up, like
when's the first time that Stefan Diggs is gonna catch
passes from Drake may like it will be Halloween weekend
twenty twenty five right when he's back on the field.
So I just look at Cooper Cup and I think
healthier to start the season would help because now he's
in the room. Now he's doing all the intangible stuff

(01:15:20):
that I think people are doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Even for you are I'll say with Cup two last
three years, nine games, twelve games games, No, he's been
banged up. That's a guy you worry about being her production.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Is in his in his advanced metrics have catered like
or cretered. Excuse me, like he's not He's not the
guy he was anymore. He's not.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
I know. It's you're making valid points.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Again.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
I don't I wouldn't hate if they added one of them.
I don't know that I'm gonna if they signed one
of them, I would say that I should have had
the other. Right, I think you can make a case
for both of them. It's just sort of what you're
looking for, what you value in that signing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
All I'm making the case for because I agree with
that last point that you just made. All I'm making
the case for is that a team like the Patriots
has to take a fire on one of these guys.
That's all I'm making the case for. Take a fire
on one of them. At best, maybe you strike gold
and Steffan Diggs ends up going back to Buffalo. Stefan Diggs,
it is a great player for you. At worst, you

(01:16:14):
have a veteran adult in the room, been there, done
it at a high level who can maybe be like
a wide receiver two for a year or two and
teach some of the young guys and bring them along.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Can you have a receiver in the draft that your
comp was Diggs?

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Yeah, Mark Matthew Golden.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Yeah, draft Matthew Golden, So Digs he can teach them.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
So here's my other takeout wide receiver. I am coming
more and more to the to terms the wrong word,
but like around to considering a offensive skill player at
four overall on this drift because two things. One, I
can't get that quote from Vrabel out of my head

(01:16:57):
from the combine when we had the Yeah press conference
scrum and he mentioned that like a lot of the
time at that position, you have to draft your own Yep.
I can't get that out of my head. Like he's right,
you know, they're not going to have somebody gift them
a wide receiver one right, I hate that term. But
they're not gonna a top wide receiver, right, They're not

(01:17:19):
gonna gift him to you, Okay. And those guys don't
want to come here, like you can't get them to
come here. I don't know what the exact number was,
but they tried to aggressively pursue Gris God would and
pry him out of Tampa, and he took less money
to not come here, significantly less. Dk Metcalf I don't
think was ever seriously considering a trade to the Patriot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Sounds like they weren't considering it either.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
But I don't think that that was I don't think
he was taking your money. Brandon Ayuk wouldn't take your money.
Calvin Ridley wouldn't take your money last year. So all
these players are telling you it's just not a desirable
enough situation yet to land in New England. It just
isn't so what I would consider at four overall. If

(01:18:04):
it has to be four overall, we're talking Ted McMillan,
we're talking Tyler Warren. I don't think we're talking Matthew
Golden like I think that's really rich for Matthew Golden,
but he's getting a lot of you know, top receiver
in this class wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
Cling for Golden. Let's say you can trade down, you
trade down to ten. You're taking Golden at ten?

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
I might. Yeah, So I think we're talking those guys.
And because they made me yesterday, I'll put gent in
there too, like you do have to.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Yeah, and you can put them at the bottom of list.
How about this one though, Let's say they don't sign
the left tackle. Let's say they don't sign Cam Robinson,
and I don't feel great about, you know, any of
the other guys that are out there being a definitive answer.
Maybe they're competing with Darien Lowe and they win the job,
but they're not a definitive answer. After all of this, Yes,

(01:18:54):
after this, this whole freaking cycle, and I'm going back
to August when we were doing shows in that other
room when they were building the studio, right, Yeah, after
all this, is there a chance we come back around
to the conversation turning into Will Campbell versus Tat McMillan.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
I really am after all of this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
That was the two guys we said, it's either gonna
be the top left tackle in the draft, or the
top wide receiver in the draft. Those two were in.
This is assuming Carter and Hunter off the board. Those
were the two guys we were looking at at the
top of those respective positions. There's been some reporting that
the Patriots may still see Campbell as a tackle. To
your point, Mike Rabel said that thing about the wide receiver.
If McMillan's at the top of their board. We went

(01:19:35):
through Abdol Carter, we went through Travis Hunter, We went
through this weird phase where they were definitely trading down.
Then it was you know, well.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
Maybe this or maybe that six weeks ago. I mean,
we're gonna go through.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
No, but I'm saying, is there a chance that by
the end of this, because we're gonna do Ted McMillan
and Matthew Golden and Tyler Warren and Ashton Genty right now,
by the end of this, do we end up back
where we started at August, where it's Will Campbell, Ted McMillan,
who's your guy? And that's the conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
I feel like this happens every year. I mean, maybe
we're not. When they were picking lower we could really know,
but like we did this last year, Like we all
came out of the gate and said quarterback, quarterback, quarterback,
and then you know, everybody started to talk themselves out
of the quarterbacks and then.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
Not all of us, not all of us. But I'm
just saying this was a pretty consensus around them.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
You know, consensus for the most part too. Like, obviously
Travis Hunter would be the dream in this scenario that
I'm I'm picturing right now as as your top wide receiver.
But like when you look at that group, I think
it's it's a real strong consideration. You're not going to
get Abdul Carter, right, I think that's a that's an
absolute pipe dream.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
There.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
There's not a Joe Alt tackle in this draft. You know,
Will Campbell at four to be an absolutely gigantic arm
length wingspan outlier. Yeah, is a risky proposition. And my
point being with like, let's just say it's Tech McMillan,
because I think he's probably the best player out out

(01:21:15):
of this group to fit this this argument besides Travis Hunter.
With Tep McMillan. Okay, so let's say Tep McMillan is
really only should really be cast as as a second
wide receiver right, like he's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Just let's say he's Drake London. We'll go back to sure.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
Liket's say he's Drake London. Is say it's T Higgins,
like he's a he's a wide receiver too. Really, well,
if you're that much better in twenty five and he's
a really good player in twenty five, now in twenty six,
like you might be able to get DK Metcalf, you
might be able to get that true number one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
The Bengals got Higgins before they got chased, right, Yeah,
to have that timeline right right, that's a ssue what
you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Great point, right, like maybe your order operations isn't perfect,
but you just put a good enough product, Like you
get to that floor where you put a good enough
product on the field. Next year, Drake may takes those
next steps where now all of a sudden, in twenty
twenty six, you are a wide receiver destination and also.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
What looks like a mutt in long way out but
what looks like a much better wide receiver track.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
Sure, or you know someone comes free and via trade
again or or free agency again, probably trade and now
that player wants to come here, So I don't necessarily
even need Ted McMillan to be the answer to all
the problems. He might just be a step towards the end.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
But are you okay taking that guy at four? I
think there'd be people saying, well, if you take the
guy at four, he should be the guy at the
top the depth truck.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
But he still has a chance to be that. I
still think he has a ceiling that could be that.
But my point being is that it's not this end
of the world scenario if he's not that, Like, if
he's not that, then at least you still have a
really good high end wide receiver too, And in twenty
twenty six you go for the big fit should get Like,
what's so wrong with that scenario? Like why is that

(01:23:03):
such a bad?

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Hell? I don't hate that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
And the last thing I would just say about it
at the top of the draft is that I don't
see a lot of separation between these players, Like if
you throw Teed McMillan, Mason Graham, Will Campbell, mikel Williams,
Jalon Walker, Tyler Warren, like, I don't see the talent
level being all that different across these players. And I

(01:23:26):
keep saying the same thing, like this is gonna be
as much about fit for each individual team as it's
gonna be best player available. It's so easy to sit
here and just say, just draft the best player on
your board. This year's there's not gonna be a lot
of separation between these guys. There's not gonna be that. Okay,
you know, this guy's a blue chip prospect and this

(01:23:49):
guy isn't. Like that doesn't exist in this draft. Pass
Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter. So if I can easily
tell you that Travis or that Teed McMillan is going
to be as good of a player as Mason, like,
I think that that's an easy thing to pitch. So
I'm coming around to that because of what Rabel said
at the combine. I'm coming around to it because it
just what's the best pick for the football team might

(01:24:12):
be that, And just to finish that take, when we
get into the left tackle conversation, I don't hate the
idea of trading back up into the back end of
the first round to get the next wave of tackles, right,
Get Josh Connerly, get a Josh Simmons. Maybe at that point,
if you sign somebody in free agency like Cam Robinson
on a bridge contract that could make some sense. Arianti Ursery, right,

(01:24:35):
might start to make sense now at the top of
the second or late first, like, there are options like
that in this draft in that twenty to forty range
that you can still come out of the draft with
a guy that can play the left side, that has
the upside to be a starting caliber left tackle. So
it's not like you're completely missing out on the tackle either,

(01:24:56):
Like would you In my mind, I'm just getting to
the point now where you know, I've kind of written
off Will Campbell as a guard, Like, I don't think
that it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Why huge choice they have. That was more the point
I was making with the full circle regardless of what
we maybe, do you think they've written him off?

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Yes, I go inside information, Yeah, I just I don't
necessarily think that they would take a complete outlier at
four overall, right now, I don't think this regime has
enough built up like Cachet to take that kind of
pick and have him turn out to be a guard,
right and have it turned out to work that out

(01:25:34):
that way for them. So would you rather, and this
is the draft, would you rather? Tet McMillan, and let's
just call it because I think it's the most realistic
in terms of not trading all around the board Tech
McMillan and Arianta Ursery or Will Campbell and insert you
know day two wide receiver here, Jayden Higgins.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
Jaden Higgins. Sure, probably McMillan a Nursery.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
That's just the way I'm leaning right now, because I
at least I know those two guys are built to
play the positions we're going to try to play a
man right like you and you're not trying to put
a guard at tackle or you know, a right tackle
at left tackle or a left tackle at right tackle
like everybody ten. McMillan's an x arionte Ersery is a
left tackle, yes, and we're not messing around, and neither

(01:26:22):
of them are.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
Hurt, and neither of them are like they're just they're
ready to go. Yeah, high floor picks. That's essentially what
you're campaigning for here, high floor picks. Yeah, all right,
and then well, Ursery is the ceiling guy. I don't
want to put Ursery in that like he's not a
floor guy, but in the way you're phrasing it, yeah,
I think that's kind of what they need, right now right,
there a third one in there for you. Sure, there's

(01:26:43):
a little more maneuvering on the board, but this is
like the trade down trade up thing. Yeah, Matthew Golden,
Josh Simmons, Yeah, yeah, and I I know, but I'm
saying like that or McMillan a nursery.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
So here's my my other part of this take, right,
I'm also coming around to Obviously, Cam Robinson is not
having the market Cam Robinson was expecting to have. If
there was an offer out there for Cam Robinson for
three for sixty, he would be signed already right like that,
that would be done. So his market is maybe lukewarm.

(01:27:16):
And I know that there's been some reporting. I think
Breer added that there's some concern about motivation and just
effort and all those kinds of things with Cam Robinson.
So is it and I'm just kind of facilitating here,
is it a good scenario for the Patriots too? Maybe
you signed Cam robinsonto a one year deal that is

(01:27:37):
basically the deal that the Jets gave Tyron Smith last year.
It's one for like fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Issues significant money, but just for one year.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
And it's incentive laden. And at that point you at
least again have a player on the roster that has
played left tackle in the NFL at a starting caliber level.
And now you can draft Josh Simmons, where now you
can draft the high ups.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
You have to get Robinson to take the contract.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
But yeah, but I'm just saying that now that it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Would open that up a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
Like I know, I've been very anti them drafting Josh Simmons.
If he's not the first player they take and they
get a guy like Cam Robinson on the roster, I
don't know that it would be my favorite pick, But
it makes a lot more sense now.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
That that's another logical scenario for them. Yeah, because right
now the lev tackles in free agency, it's Cam Robinson.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
It's right, Like I know so many people like Jedrick Wills.
Just the way it ended last year in Cleveland, I'm
not sure that's the kind of guy they're looking to add. Now,
maybe you could say Robinson isn't neither, but Robinson's a
much more proven player, right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
So I think it's Robinson or busting free agency. If
I'm going to invest in Robinson again, I'm thinking of
one year deal, high money, high guarantee. It resets his value.
It gives the Patriots a safety net if their draft
pick doesn't work out.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
But you also have a draft you also want to
have a draft pick in the building to push him
one hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
Like, yeah, you still absolutely need to draft to a
left tackle in the top fifty. Like there's guy's not debatable.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Yeah, top one hundred. I'd call it top one, top fifty.
If you get like Anthony Belton, that's seventy seven. I
think that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Nope, no, higher disagree then Connerley Ursery, Josh Simmons, one
of those guys has to be on this roster.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Just the scenario, Well, we're kind of updating takes post
for agency, and we're on tackles. Membo, we're done with
for the Patriots, We're done with arm On Membo. I think, so,
I agree with you. He's a right tackle. He's a
good right tackle. Yeah, but he's a right tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
And yeah, it's probably only one year for Morgan Moses.
I'm not using a top ten pick to get a
future right tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
Like no, And I'm not out on like Ozzy Traprilo.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Sure, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
If you want to get the next guy right, you draft,
even the third round and he's the next guy.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
We don't want to do that afore right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
I we'll see where Covin Banks ends up. Yeah, I
think he's at Covin Banks is going to settle at
a top twenty pick. Like, I don't think that he's
gonna have this fall that some people think that he's
gonna have. But we'll see where he ends up. You know,
is there a chance that he I think Amarius Mims
went twenty last year exactly, Like if he's at twenty, Like,
can you make that trade? It's eighteen spots, it's a

(01:30:13):
big trade, but can you make it happen? Right? And
maybe you actually get Banks.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
I mean that's probably close to that's pretty close to
the trade when they moved back and got Dugger, Yeah,
which was twenty three for I think thirty six and
seventy one. Yeah, so you throw in like a future
day three pick. Maybe he gets it done. Yeah, yeah,

(01:30:37):
that would make it. And you're talking about Banks as
a left.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Tackle, correct, Yeah, yeah, that could work right, So you know,
you trade back up into the twenties and you kind
of put yourself on the board for Banks, potentially Connorly Simmons,
like all those guys at the back end of the
first round, I think that that's a viable option as well.
So that's left tackle, wide and wide receiver when it

(01:31:02):
comes to edge. I mean we've kicked some names around already.
I still think that you need you need somebody kind
of a similarly, you know, talking about safety nets like
I don't know if Harold Landry has the juice anymore
to be a really good, you know, third down pass
rusher like I does. The metrics aren't good. They're not
friendly to him right now in terms of that, So

(01:31:23):
maybe he's not that guy anymore. So you might actually
have to be taking some of these guys off the field,
like you might still be a little bit situational with
your rushers, So you need another really good pass rusher
off the edge. We mentioned free safety, so we kind
of threw out names already for those two positions into
your offensive line. Still a big need to me, I

(01:31:45):
am not counting on Robinson so and Strange Nope or better,
they can compete. I mean, I think they're good, and
I think at least like Ben Brown, he's your backup center.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
That's a pretty good situation. But I'm not having those
eyes and starting roles without competition, No like it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
Right now, if they had to play a game tomorrow,
they still have a Darian little left tackle, which is
not well.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
They don't have play game tomorrow, thankfully.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Right but just to play out the exercise, they still
have a Darian little left tackle, which is not okay
with me like that, that can't be it. And at
left guard they're still at you know, Leyden Robinson, Cole
Strange City, so competing. I would just like to see
the mat A veteran body there, you know, Josh Myers
is a center up pure center from Green Bay. He's
out there still. I watched a little bit of Tevin

(01:32:30):
Jenkins yesterday. I didn't think he moved very well last year.
Looks injured. I don't know. There's potentially chronic back issues
there with Tevin Jenkins, which would worry me right in
terms of his mobility. Uh so that would be maybe
a little bit concerning. And then a lot of the
other guys are are our right guards by trade, you know,
Kevin Zeitler's of the world, like those guys all are
right guards. But I still think that there's there's another

(01:32:53):
option there. Maybe it's a true center. Maybe it's it's
Jenkins to play the left guard spot. Uh. The one
that I would really now strongly consider is McKai Becton.

Speaker 1 (01:33:05):
You know, I think that side.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
Yeah, I think the guy Becton at left guard would
be perfectly fine. I really like the idea becked that
he might make a little bit too much money for
what they're willing to spend there. Uh, but I think
that McKay Beckton is what exactly what I'm looking for, right, Like,
you know, you've said it now, like you're that he's
your left guard going into next season. So those are
the spots or anybody else that that I didn't mention

(01:33:28):
that are worth mentioning before we go back? Agen, Yeah,
that's available. Any nobody else that stands out to you?

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
I think that's it all right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
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minutes here at all about you guys. We got a
bunch of emails, We got people on the phones, So

(01:35:09):
you guys are going to close us out here. Randy
is in Providence. What's up, Brandy?

Speaker 7 (01:35:15):
Hey? So, a couple of names I was thinking about
in the draft after a free agency late like day two,
maybe early day three, like aneas People's ty Robinson, Omar
Norman Lock guys at interior pass rushers, to like kind
of build up that spot in case Barmore doesn't come back.

(01:35:36):
Also Ola Daho, who is a great run stopper on
the edge. I also wanted to say Jaden Higgins in
the second round, right you said? Mike Brabel said you
need to draft those guys. He drafted aj Brown in
the second round. He didn't take him top five. I
think Ted McMillan's vastly overrated. But I also wanted to
ask you guys, because you guys were at the Senior Bowl,
right both of you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
Evan was yep.

Speaker 7 (01:35:59):
Okay, So I had heard a report. I don't remember
exactly where it was, but I heard somebody that was
there saying like it was kind of like a worst
kept secret sort of thing that Mike Rabel and staff
were absolutely in love with Will Campbell. Like thought he
was the best player in the draft, would take him
number one to play left tackle, didn't care about his
arm length, et cetera, et cetera. Mike Rabel, Now, I

(01:36:21):
haven't met the man. I'm not friends with the man,
but he just everything that I see he does in
terms of hiring, in terms of what I've heard reported
about him, is that, you know, he's kind of a
very loyal and maybe sometimes a little stubborn guy. And
I just wouldn't be surprised and maybe that was the
plan given everything that they haven't done at left tackle

(01:36:44):
and free agency you got did you hear that at
all at senior ball? Did you get that impression? Do
you think that could be the plan? And then what
do you think about Jaden Higgins in the second round,
because I think he's the best wide receiver prospect in
this draft personally, he's got better physical tooln't a comparable
production in a comparable situation.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
Thanks for the call, Randy appreciated. I didn't hear any
anything that definitive on Will Campbell. There's been a lot
of reporting that the Patriots weren't overly caught up in
the arm length stuff, right, Like I we have heard
that from multiple outlets.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
I'm right or wrong. I still think that there's maybe
a chance that they view Will Camberl in certain situations
as a tackle. I'm not totally writing that off.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
No, I'm not totally writing it off. I don't think
that they're that they were that set in anything.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Maybe maybe that strong, especially like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
To have that early, to have it that set in
January is pretty unrealistic to me, especially if they have
been on the job for like a couple of weeks
at that point. Like, I just can't imagine that they
have had enough intel to be that dead set on
anybody in this draft. Now that being said, I would
be absolutely floored if they had Will Campbell rated higher

(01:38:01):
than Travis Hunter like they have been. There's been reports.
We had Elliott Wolf on our draft podcast at the
Combine really excited about Travis Hunter. Like, I would be
absolutely shocked if they think that Travis that Will Campbell
is a better prospect than Travis Hunter, just from everything
that we've heard.

Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
Yeah, But all I'm saying is I'm not closing the
door on the idea that they view Will Campbell as
a tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
No, I'm not closing any doors to his point about
Jaden Higgins. I'm a big Jaden Niggins fan. I think
he plays slower than he tested. I don't think he
necessarily runs as well as I like that forty booty away.
I thought he was going to be mid four five's.
He was four four seven. I did not expect that

(01:38:48):
kind of speed out of him. He doesn't play to
that speed on tape. I'm usually a guy that is
a tape over combine forty time type of guy, like
I try to trust it and trust my eye in
that sense. When I watched Jaden Higgins on tape, I
thought more crafty than athlete. You know, explosiveness his combine

(01:39:09):
blew me away. I mean he was a great athlete
in terms of the testing. Yeah, and all walks, you know, agility.
I don't know if he did those, but explosiveness forty
times size like had it all. He to me is
more you know the guy that I would comp Jaden
Higgins too, is like a Michael Pittman in HINDI, where
like he's big bodied so he can win some of

(01:39:30):
those jump balls down the field. But he's really a
possession receiver. He's really a first and second level receiver.
I'm okay, like I like Jaden Higgins. I'm not saying
that I think he's a bad prospect. I actually one
thing that Randy said that he thought that Teed McMillan
is very overrated. I think we've gone too far in
that direction with Tet McMillan. Yeah, I think we have

(01:39:52):
now underrated Teed McMillan because everybody is saying that he
was overrated to begin with. I've said time and time
again that he isn't a Marvin Harrison Molik Neighbors Roma
Dunees a level prospect. He never was and he never
is going to be. I would probably have him in
that conversation in that next wave of last year's class

(01:40:13):
with like Brian Thomas Junior and Xavier Worthy and those
types of players. He's not Marvin Harrison Junior. He's not
Leak Neighbors. But now I feel like we've gone the
other direction where like he's he's stiff, and you know,
Jayden Higgins, who's gonna go on day two and Ted's
gonna go day one, is actually a better player, like,
I think that's we're getting a little crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
Yeah, No, I'm with you. He's still a good player.
He's just not We've had how many years of these
generational wide receiver generational I should say in air quotes
wide receiver prospects. If they're coming every year, they're not generational.
And now this year he's just not quite that guy.
Sobody thinks he sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
You have to be realistic about what you're getting. You're
not getting a field stretcher. You're getting a guy that's
gonna win with size and fluidity and and you know,
snappy at the top of the route at the first
and second level.

Speaker 1 (01:41:01):
He's he's not He's not Harry Like. I think that's
what so many people are.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Definitely a different player.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
Let me ask you this, this is a weird question.
If what is the comp for Teed McMillan if he's
a bust right, because it's not if he busts, he's
not gonna bust in the way Nikill Hary did.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
Yeah, you understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
Yeah, So, like what is maybe to get people to
understand this a little more like right ceiling middle floor comps? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (01:41:31):
I don't. Drake London is not t Higgins is probably
the ceiling comp.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Drake lenn had a
great year last.

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
Drake London is the mid, he's middle to high middle.
Who is the basement bust comp for tech McMillan. I
don't think it's Nakhill Harry.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
I have to think about that. I don't know, Like
I don't have a great one off the top of
my head. You know, big body receiver that just can't
get open would be it would be the game.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
Well, but people would tell you that's Nakhill Harry.

Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
But but Nikhil Harry was stiff, like to kill Harry
was robot. Nikhil Harry had too right, He's still like,
that's not Teed McMillan.

Speaker 1 (01:42:03):
Even if you drat, even if he's a bus, he's
still gonna have his physical traits.

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
TEP McMillan is just not super fast. I don't know,
was it Quentin Johnson? No, Quentin Johnson's fast. Quentin Johnson's
an explosive guy. He just can't catch.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
I'm just kind of looking back through. Oh, well, think
about it. I'll think about that. Bet john Dotson.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
No, not big enough.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
Not Cadarius Tony. I'm looking at like previous high draft
pick bus not Jalen Rager, Laviskas.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
Chanal, No, Laviskas. Hlt's like Corkal pattern.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
Oh, Chase Claypool.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Maybe that's not a bad one. Chase Coople was a
great athlete, though Chase Claypole could fly.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
I I always thought that forty was kind of like
you said about Higgins, like was he really that fast?

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
He was a good athlete, had a really good rook here.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
Cory Davis.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Not terrible. But no, let's think about it. Let's get
back to the phones, and we'll think about Will Fuller. Uh,
Kendall's in North Carolina. What's up, Kendall?

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:43:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:43:02):
I want to know.

Speaker 4 (01:43:03):
There's two quarterbacks to go four this year? And if
Russell Wilson goes to the Giants, do you think they
have still go quarterback?

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
If Russell Wilson goes to the Giants? Uh, thanks for
the call, Candle. If the Giants signed Russell Wilson or
Aaron Rodgers, I think they're out on quarterback at three.

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
If they signed Aaron Rodgers, definitely. If cam Ward gets
to three, does Brian Dave All look at it and say,
all right, I have Russ for a year or two,
and now I have my next guy in the pipeline
that wouldn't surprise me. He's he's a quarterbacks guy. And
Russell Wilson does see he went through that all justin
fields last year. Russell Wilson, I think, is the kind
of guy that might actually mentor the next guy. Rodgers

(01:43:43):
isn't doing that. Rodgers isn't gonna let you draft quarterback
at three. That's out the window. I could see them
double dipping if it's Russell Wilson.

Speaker 2 (01:43:49):
I think the only reason why I why I I
guess they could teams like the Giants or Cleveland if
they signed a Wilson or Rodgers could buck trends. Is
because of your boy, Michael Pennock, right, like, yeah, you know,
the Falcons draft Michael Pennix and it ends up working out,
you know, maybe not the exact way that they wanted
it to, but it worked, but it worked because you know,

(01:44:09):
really all the other things with the trends, like Shaudre
Sanders and cam Ward are older, like they're you know,
they're they've been in college for a while. Shouldur obviously transferred.
You know, cam Ward is is another four or five
year starter school.

Speaker 5 (01:44:24):
I know that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:25):
Yeah, yeah so he they both are are twenty four.

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
I want to say they're not that. Yeah, I think
they are now so but yeah, like the Michael Pennock
situation is not a bad copy.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
Cam Ward will turn twenty three in May. Okay, so
he's going to be twenty four, twenty three year old rookie.
Yeah you should just turned twenty three. Yeah, yeah, I
don't think was that old.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
Yeah, I'm always that.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
I forgot he's a Jackson State for two years.

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
Yeah, Jackson ar State.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
So he's at Jackson State, but I thought only for
a year.

Speaker 2 (01:44:52):
So they're older prospects. And I the only reason why
I bring that up because your boy Penis is kind
of thrown that like it doesn't matter, right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:01):
Well, you got Michael Pennicks a baller, Like, let's not
forget that. Yeah, the guy can I take Panics over
ward or Sanders under.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
But my point being with the age thing is actually
more that, especially in Shador's case, I think there's still
room to grow for cam Ward because he's toolsy enough
that I could see more upside there with the with
coaching and everything, I kind of feel like Shador is Shador,
Like I, he's sort of a floor quarterback to me,
Like I I, I don't necessarily look at Shador and

(01:45:30):
and see like a ton of physical upside there for
him as a player, Like I think that he's going
to be a guy that could probably start in the
league next year and and be a functional game management manager.
I think he's in that same category.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
Yeah, just because the line was so bad at Colorado,
I think there's maybe some room for him to grow there.
But I get what you're saying, Like, I don't think
that Shador is going to take these massive leaps in
the NFL, is my point. I'm with you there.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
So like if you're a team like the Giants or
the Browns and you draft Shador and now you sign
Aaron Rodgers, so at least for a year, you're gonna
sit a door on the bench for another year, Like,
I just don't see why you why bother again.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
I think you look what happened with the Falcons. You
sign one of these veteran quarterbacks, a guy who is
on the back end, and you want to be ready
if he drops off.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
I'm just having a tough time imagining it's.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
Not gonna It's not gonna happen with Rogers because Rodgers
won't let it happen. I just feel like I think
with Russell Wilson could happen. Yeah, it's a copycat league. Wait, hang,
I got a couple more receiver bus for you.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
I just think it's it's a copycat league and that
might change things. But to your point about Penis being good,
like Pennix might have just been so good that the
Falcons looked at it and were like, we can't pass
on this, trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
Tell people you can get them with the second row.
I will never stop with that victory. This is not
the point of the only one that's gonna be would
have been bigger is that the Vikings had signed a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
But right, like Penix was so good that they you
could maybe make that case. I don't think you can
make that case with cam warden Shador. Like if you're
a drafted I think you can make it for Kim
Warrdon if you're drafting one of those two guys and
you really have to believe in that guy, right and
like putting him on the bench for a year.

Speaker 1 (01:47:11):
I just well, I think some of it is too.
Like Kirk Cousins got that massive contract, right, he was
signed to be a definitive starter. Is Russell Wilson gonna
get that kind of money? Is Russell Wilson gonna have
that kind of job security?

Speaker 2 (01:47:22):
I don't know. No, he's not. He's not.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
He's not gonna be a It's not like you're coming
down from where from where Cousins was to. If we're
gonna comport to the Falcons, hang, I cut more receivers
from Okay, So this is again, if Teed McMillan is
a bust, what is his comp because we don't think
it's to kill harryt Okay, Will Fuller, no, Kevin White, No,
all right, I'm gonna give you one more. This is

(01:47:44):
super weird because people like this guy, but he's maybe
the most overrated wide receiver of his arrow because he
had one good year, two good years Michael Thomas. But like,
is Teed McMillan like post twenty nineteen Michael Thomas closer?

Speaker 8 (01:47:58):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:47:58):
Because Michael Thomas was really good at running slant routes
and then that was kind of it, and teams basically
figured out how to counter it, and they got hurt.
So because Tep McMillan is big, but he's also kind
of that guy where he's gonna be exposed a lot
to big hits because of his size.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
Closer, Okay, that's probably your closest one yet, honestly, you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
Could make you can make an argument in Ted McMillan's
ceiling middle Floor are a Michael Thomas. So I just
different stages of Michael Thomas.

Speaker 2 (01:48:26):
I actually thought when I was doing comps for all
the receivers, I actually thought of Michael Thomas with Jaden Higgins,
you know, like a guy that I think is gonna
really win at the first and second level and not
running by anybody and kind of be a slam boy
and like all that kind of stuff. I kind of
thought of that with Jayden Niggins, And I guess Jaden
Higgins is kind of day to teed McMillon. So maybe
like washed Michael Thomas is, like how he he is

(01:48:48):
a complete bust? All Right, That was a long way
to get to that point.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
Saint should have kept Brandon Cooks.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
Uh, Mike is in Virginia. What's up, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike?
All Right, Mike, Sorry about that. If you if you're
still there a callback in Eldred, what's going on Eldred?

Speaker 8 (01:49:06):
Hey, Evan, Alex, how y'all doing? Uhh? I think t
mac gonna surprise all of y'all. But if you come
with a buff, I'm coming with LaQuan Treadmill.

Speaker 4 (01:49:17):
Fred will uh used to be the Vices, then he.

Speaker 8 (01:49:19):
Went to the I think he went to the Steelers.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
Yeah six four. He's just like he was a raw
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
Yeah he also wasn't the mover that mcmillany.

Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
But yeah, big body receiver. You're on the right track.

Speaker 8 (01:49:34):
Yeah. My question is this, Uh, I got two questions
for you. Why ain't about talking about James Pearce as
a edge rusher because to me, doing that combine to
remind me of Gunzo Smooth everything you know, had a
good a good combine and all that. And then the
other one is uh Dante Thornton Jr. And Uh, I

(01:49:58):
know you talked about him earlier, but but experience, he
is sad to speed. He could he could play against
man Press. Don's stay still over the top. This weakness
just kind of slows him down with debt. Other than that,
he's good to get hand fighting, and he's good against
man coverage, and he is a six to four, four
to three receiver and they ain't got him lifted into
what round five? Round six?

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
Yeah? Yeah, thanks take it off there, Thanks elder buddy,
have a good one. Thanks for the cause always. Uh.
James Pearce is an interesting prospect. He was one of
the he was like a top five pick at one
point in this draft, right, like he was projected to
go super super high. James Pearce. Yeah, and then he
had kind of a rough year, not a rough year,

(01:50:41):
but just not the year that people were expecting at
Tennessee this past year. And Uh, to me, when I
see James Pearce, I think he's a very linear rusher,
Like he doesn't have a lot of agility or change
of direction to really challenge inside and outside. He's kind
of just like a speed to power, I'm gonna run
into the tackle and I hope I I kind of
make it work type of guy. I think he's raw,

(01:51:04):
and I don't think he's got a great like mobility, right,
you know, like ankle bend and hit fluidity and those
types of things that usually lend himself to a really
high sap production at the next level, Like, could he
be a pocket pusher, disruptor, you know, drop him into coverage. Hey,
look it's you uh to drop him into coverage like

(01:51:24):
that sort of thing. Yeah, Like I think that he
could be that guy, but I didn't see a lot
of bend in a lot of twitch to his movements,
which would worry me a little bit with him. But
like if he has like a draft day weekend fall
and he somehow finds his way to the second round,
which I think is crazy, but maybe, Like I'm not
saying like completely rulling him out as a Day two

(01:51:47):
guy for the Patriots, but I don't think he's in
the conversation to be a top ten pick anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
Yeah, he doesn't have He's a guy that has one
elite tool, but he doesn't have a lot of tools. Yeah,
Like that one tool is excellent, but he doesn't much
beyond that. He's not a first round pick in most drafts.
He is kind of that Josh Ucha sort of player
I think you're talking about. It's part of the reason
he fell was like he came into the year with
a lot of expectation and he because he had such

(01:52:13):
a strong twenty twenty three. He played well in twenty
twenty four, he didn't necessarily get better. He didn't stro
anything new. Yeah, and I think that's what has teams concerned.
So if you're somebody that believes in just kind of
the true speed rusher, yeah he has some value, but
he's not much more than that. And because he didn't develop,
you know, there's a quick teams have to ask himselves, now,
why didn't he develop? Is this all he's gonna end

(01:52:34):
up being?

Speaker 2 (01:52:35):
Yeah, that's fair. And then the Taekwon Thornton two point
zero receiver that he mentioned.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
Who was I couldn't hear him.

Speaker 2 (01:52:42):
I think his last name is really literally Thorton, right,
Dante Thorston junior. Yeah, but I mean he's like a
six foot three string being fourth fast, fast, and yeah,
that's why that's why he was going. You know why
he's not projected higher on boards right now is because
he's literally, hey, he's a track meat player. You know,

(01:53:04):
that's the type of guy that he is. You know,
it's a great athlete, a great combine. I would get
too caught up in forty times with players like that.

Speaker 1 (01:53:15):
So and I'm so glad I thought of that that's
going to come in handy for years to come.

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
Out here, and yeah, that's always my problem.

Speaker 1 (01:53:22):
All right, Well, you're gonna have to learn to You're
gonna have to be ready to answer the question when
you want to hype up one of these guys.

Speaker 2 (01:53:26):
So the president of Mason Graham's fan club, who is
Floyd and Redford Michigan, that might.

Speaker 1 (01:53:33):
Be the for all the free agency stuff, the only
guy that truly came off the board.

Speaker 2 (01:53:38):
So so Floyd says that we can't rule out Mason
Graham because I'm telling you he's Mason Graham's fan.

Speaker 1 (01:53:46):
That's something I would expect Mason Graha's biggest fancy say.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
He's not ruling out Mason Graham because of Christian Barmore's status,
you know, in terms of his health. There's definitely a
fair point there that they can't necessarily count on having
an available Christian Barmore. But I already had concerns about
Mason Graham holding up at two ninety ninety five as
it is, and now you want to pair him with

(01:54:09):
another guy who weighs two hundred and ninety pounds. I
just think that that's very, very light in the middle.
Of your defense.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
It's also are you willing to make your big free
agency signing and your top draft pick at the same position,
which is not a premium position. That's a tough sell.
That's a really tough sell.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
Yep, that's another great point. You know, it's basically redundant
skill set, same position. Yeah, same type of player, like
the ways that Milton Williams wins disruptive hands leverage, using
his like lower center of gravity to get underneath blockers,

(01:54:47):
first step of quickness into gaps, instincts, motor I just
describe Mason Graham. Yeah, so you have now you're gonna
just have two Mason Grams.

Speaker 1 (01:54:55):
With Milton Williams, or roughly to Milton Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:54:58):
Which like there's worse things to have have, but it's
it's kind of a luxury, not an absolutely necessity. Uh
So that's uh, that's amazing, Graham. It doesn't make me
feel like a little bit better than maybe that's off
the board, because you know, I wasn't in love with
it to.

Speaker 1 (01:55:10):
Be I always feel I feel bad, like the last
two years, like the guy I've kind of come out
is like the no no, no player has been a
Michigan guy, and people probably think I just hate Michigan,
like I need Michigan to come through with with the
guy that I can like really get behind to offset that,
because it's nothing against Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
All right, let's take these calls. Uh, Mark is in Connecticut.
What's up? Mark?

Speaker 6 (01:55:30):
Hey, guys, always appreciate you guys taking my calls. I
just had a quick one. If we strike out on
Cooper Cup Uh to Gooby Myers, what is the prediction
there of what he would uh what it would take
to get him in a trade, like you know, round wide?
What do you guys think on that?

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
Yeah, Mark, thanks for the call. That's a tough one,
I would say to to project because I don't think
he's really available. So yeah, you have to make the
offer to the Raiders that's enticing enough for them to
actually move him back to the Patriots so.

Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
They don't need a quarterback anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
Right, So I think that you would have to give
them a third or fourth round pick, which seems really high. Uh,
just giving the not necessarily like a knock on Jacoby Myers,
but just given the way that wide receiver market has
moved in trades, like a DK Metcalf only got like
a mid second round pick back, So, like, I just
in order to make it enticing enough for the Raiders

(01:56:26):
to actually trade him, it's gonna have to be something
worth it. Yeah, and so now I think you're kind
of overpaying for him.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
Like the moving down from four to six and getting
like Jacobe in a third round pick like that made
sense to me, but there's no incentive for the Raiders
to do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:56:38):
Yeah, So yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (01:56:42):
It's it's a tough one. I get why people want
to back he's a good player, yeah, but I just
I don't know that that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
If it comes out that he's on the block and
he can be had, you know, that's different. But if
you have to actually like aggressively pursue him.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
Yeah, it's probably not gonna be worth it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:56:57):
All right, Marvin is in Florida. What's up, Marvin?

Speaker 9 (01:57:01):
Hey fellows, how you guys doing good? I think is
why don't we trade Dugger for like maybe a third
round pick and it will Campbell like pick nine and
then trade up to get Golden or another top ar
receiver in the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
Yeah, thanks for the call, Marvin. I don't know what
Kyle Duggar's value is really right now. I don't think
it's a third round pick at all.

Speaker 1 (01:57:29):
That would all be not I also don't think you're
gonna will Camble at nine, even as a guard. I
don't think you're gonna get at nine.

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
I think your great thought. Yeah, I think you're you're
better off almost if you don't have Dugger in your
long term plans. I think you're better off him starting
the season here and hoping that he starts well, yeah,
and then maybe trading him at the deadline for something.
But you have to remember, they just paid him, so
they just gave him a big contract, so now you
know the team is acquiring the contract as well as

(01:57:55):
the player in a trade, and as we've seen across
the board, when that's the case, you just don't get
the value in the trade that you may think you would.
I think Kyle Dugger is unfortunately like kind of like
not worth anything like of substantial value.

Speaker 1 (01:58:09):
He's here, he's here for now, and that's just what
and that's why they need to get a free safety
so they can play him in the box and let
him do what he does best.

Speaker 2 (01:58:15):
Yeah, all right, last one here, then we'll wrap it up.
This is from a concerned fan from Chelsea and he says,
I'm going insane because for all the discussion around not
picking a non left tackle at four, no one is
answering the following question. The answering the follow up question
of who is going to play left tackle. Before a
free agency there was the Ronnie Stanley and Cam Robinson

(01:58:38):
comp out, but now that's gone and there are no
severable left tackles left. Well, Cam Robinson's not gone. Uh
in my mind, you have to gamble at Campbell at
four if he's a bust and ends up as an
elite guard. Oh well, so well, Cam Robinson's not gone.
First of all. Yeah, I think what you have to weigh,
And we talked about this earlier because I think this
is a fair point. It's a that is a the

(01:59:00):
question right now, and that's why I wanted to end
it on it, because that this is the philosophical question
that we're going to be having. Yeah, is are you
desperate to the point at left tackle where you're gonna
take Will Campbell And if he's a bust and you
have to move him inside to left guard, then so
be it. And you're willing to take that risk at
four overall, I personally would just say that I still

(01:59:24):
don't think it's a terrible option to sign Cam Robinson
to a short term contract and Josh and draft one
of those second wave guys like a Josh Simmons.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
Let's say, let's say you can't k Robson. Let's say
Robinson's often because that's obvious. Yeah, if you sign Cam Robinson,
you draft somebody later. That's easy, right, And I think
that's kind of what we'd hope they do from the beginning. Yeah,
let's say Cam Robinson signs elsewhere, because that that that's
really putting the pressure on because now, okay, you're not
like Vaderian Low's in the competition and maybe he doesn't
end up being the guy, but you're talking about Vaderian

(01:59:54):
low and equivalent players.

Speaker 2 (01:59:56):
Yeah, you're talking about Vaderian Lowe and Josh Connor in
a competition, or Darien at Ursery in a competition, or.

Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
Like, now I guess you have to talk about I
keep want to say Tristan Worst, Jedrick Wills, Jedrick Wills
or Tristan Worse's be great. Yeah, Jedrick Wills are one
of those other tackles is still available. Like at that point,
are you thinking about Will Campbell?

Speaker 7 (02:00:21):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:00:22):
Because I think you will.

Speaker 2 (02:00:24):
I think you are thinking about it in general. But
you have to be convinced, in my mind, if you're
drafting Will Campbell at four that he's he's going to
play high level tackle, I think you have to be
one hundred percent convinced that he's gonna play.

Speaker 1 (02:00:35):
Okay, so but forget what what you think? Right if
Cam Robinson, if Cam Robinson is not available, If Cam
Robinson is not available, yeah, what are you doing at
left tackle next year? That is the question.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
If I had to pick yes right now, I would
try to position myself to draft one of those second
wave tackles and put him in a competition with Vedarien Though. Okay,
I or signed Cam Robinson and put him in Cam Robins. Well,
this is Cam Robinson's off the board, right, Oh he's
off the board. Cam Robinson's off the board.

Speaker 1 (02:01:07):
What are you doing it? Left out?

Speaker 2 (02:01:08):
I would draft Josh Connery or Arianti Ursery and put
him in a competition with how high?

Speaker 1 (02:01:13):
How high would you draft him?

Speaker 2 (02:01:14):
Twenties?

Speaker 1 (02:01:15):
Okay, so you're moving up from Yeah, well I'm saying
like you can't just wait at thirty eight to see
which one falls and then neither fall, And now what
are you doing? Right? Yeah, okay, maneuver. Let me see
Will Campbell's pro day numbers.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
Why is that going to change me? He worked out
of the combine.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
Yeah, and the combine numbers are way off from the
senior in terms of everybody else. I'm like, yeah, all right,
all right, fair enough, I'm not closed in. I don't
think they're going to close the door on Will Campbell
being the answer that question. I really don't. No, I
don't think there's whether they should or not is another conversation,
like he very well may be a guard I think
he is, but it doesn't matter what me and you
would do because we're not up there or over there

(02:01:51):
wherever the office is. Right, it's what they would do.
I just I have this gut feeling that that door
is not totally shut yet.

Speaker 2 (02:01:58):
All right, that's gonna do it for this weeks. Catch
twenty two A lot to talk about today. That was
a good show.

Speaker 1 (02:02:03):
We need to get more fun from here.

Speaker 2 (02:02:05):
We'll be back next week. I think we'll probably do
an even harder reset of the draft board and all
the Patriots options and at the top of the draft
and throughout the draft next week, so we'll be here
and we'll break that down for you as well, and
there might be some more Patriots news I'm sure, as
signings and all that good stuff as well. So until then,
signing off for Alex Bartham, Evan Lazarre. We'll see you

(02:02:27):
next week.

Speaker 1 (02:02:27):
Bye. Thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple,
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Speaker 2 (02:02:34):
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Speaker 1 (02:02:36):
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