Patriots Catch-22 4/16: "My Guys" on Defense, Latest Draft Buzz

Tune-in as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth go back a forth sharing their favorite draft prospect at each position in the 2025 NFL Draft class. They talk about the latest buzz surrounding the NFL Draft, wager the likelihood of a trade back, and consider how this year's QB class could effect how the Patriots move. Plus, they share their thoughts on Mike Vrabel's pre-draft press conference.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Barth.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
And Lazar.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined as always by our Bara.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bar Okay, so let's
do early day three and late day so you can
get to that. Ted Johnson is I still believe. I
will not quit Tesz Johnson. I will not quit.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Right there, I will not quit.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I won't quit test Johnson like I'm gonna's strategy. I'm
gonna go down with the ship with Ted Johnson. I'm
not wrong until I'm wrong, right. Isn't that one of
your your shows like that, that's one of your your
staples committed.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
That's big vulgar thing. R Waiver on Michael Pennox last
year and read me the Riot Act.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
But until you're wrong, you're not wrong. That's a big take.
I know Felger sometimes has, so I'm just saying I'm
not wrong yet. On tedes Johnson, he could be really
good in the NFL. We don't know yet. Yeah, and
that's the case with all these guys, I suppose. But hello, everybody,
welcome in Patriots Catch twenty two, eight days, eight days,

(01:22):
ago till the NFL. Who's counting, Alex, I am counting
at this point, Let's get there, let's get the picks made,
and let's figure out who's going to be Patriots out
of this class. But eight days to go to the draft.
It's very exciting time with the draft. I feel like
all the hay is almost there. We're almost in the
barn at this point, I would say, and we get

(01:44):
to the point now where we just are in the
middle of reading body languages at press conferences and lying
season and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
So well, as Mike Rabel said yesterday, like he talked about,
they're going through their running simulations to figure out what
they're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
They refuse to call them mock drafts, even though that's
exactly what they are.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, I think they're I think they're a little more involved.
They're not they're not putting the PF. Maybe they are
putting the PFL, but like you know, setting up certain trades.
But I mean, we we used to on our old show,
we used to do that exercise all the time, and
please this is ridiculous. Yeah, well we're now we're not
doing it to the same extent. They are, but it's
a it's a good sparing.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Ourselves to the actual in GMS. Okay, but I do
love how every single GM gets up there and says, yeah,
we're we're running simulations. And I was like, you can
just say that you're doing mock drafts like that, that's
what simulations, that's what.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
You're doing simulation. If they're not gonna call them mock drafts,
maybe all start calling my mock draft simulation. Yes, paytris
to the simulation three point Patriots draft simulation.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
There you go. Now we're now, we're in the business.
We're in the know. Anyways, before we get rolling here,
support the home team. Join New England's events staff here
at Jilted Stadium. Seasonal positions available in food and beverage, parking, insecurity.
Visit www dot thecraft group dot com, slash careers and
apply today. Alex, you were a vendor at one point,

(03:12):
weren't you.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I was in high school as a hawker.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You were a hawker here? That was my first explain
what that means. I don't know the hawkers.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Are you see him out there? The guys in yellow
shirts that are so I didn't work in one of
the concession stands. I would have the bag of pizza
or water or whatever. I didn't sell beer. I wasn't
old enough when I worked here to sell beer, but
the bag of whatever over the shoulder. Get pizza here.
It wants pizza. And it was games concerts. That was
the first of three times I worked for.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
That's a that's incredible. That's a that's a great story,
you know. That's that's right up there with mister Kraft
being on the bleachers at the old Page Well, uh Sullivan,
you know whatever? What was it called again, shaffer Staium?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
That was?

Speaker 3 (03:53):
That was my first Patriots game that I went to.
I worked as a hawker. Was what season did they
open it would have been I think it was twenty ten.
Did they open against the Bengals? It was an opener
against the Bengals. That was my first game and I
was working.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
That's fascinating. Were you ever on the on the bleachers
at the old Foxborough Stadium? Did you get to a
game before they.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Got for a Patriots game?

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (04:17):
I went for revs. Game and I think like maybe
why I was younger, maybe one or two other events,
but not a Patriots game.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay, So I My very first game was at the
old Foxborough Stadium. It was a night game. I can't
tell you if it was Sunday or Monday night or whatever,
but it's a night game in the pouring rain against
I believe Aaron Brooks's New Orleans.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
There you go, that's a poll.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, and it was pouring and I remember, you know,
I couldn't have been more excited. I didn't care at
the time, but my parents were very worried about about
the weather and about you know, me getting soaked at
you know, at four or five years old. But it
was a good time. Anyways, enough down memory lane, let's
get in.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Hang on. I found the game. It was against the Bengals.
I was right, twenty ten against the Bengals. Patriots won
thirty eight twenty four. I just want to see how
Brady did. Brady was twenty five to thirty five, two
fifty eight, three touchdowns, no picks. Ho hum, oh yeah, exactly.
Home Wes Welker caught a couple of touchdowns. Good day.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
I know that there's there's some helmet news today that
is I didn't even think we're gonna get in Tom
Brady adjacent.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Wait, hang on, Carson Palmer. That came thirty four of
fifty three hundred and forty five yards.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Two touchdowns, fifty attempts.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
It was a duel. There was some helmet news.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
There's some helmet news, but there Today is also the
twenty fifth anniversary of the day the Patriots drafted Tom Brady.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Thought there was yesterday.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I think it's today in the in the sixth round.
But regardless of it is today or yesterday, Oh.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
To day, because it's Belichick's birthday twenty.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Five years ago.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, so, and it's also Bill belichicks o old man.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
So happy birthday to the coach.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Birthday to Bill.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
There all that and all the pleasantries are out of there.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
We we got a little installed generally.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Let's get into the pre draft press conference yesterday. Both
of us were there with Mike Rabel at the podium,
and that was a pros pro press conference. He to me,
I know that everybody wants to read into everything and
read between the lines and look at body language. I
know is his left tackle answer. There's a lot of
body language doctors out there that are trying to decipher

(06:18):
what exactly his mood was towards the tackles. The way
I read it was that that was a pros pros
press conference. He gave nothing away a lot of words.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well so nothing I would push back on. He gave
nothing away, very little. I think we learned a lot
about his big picture draft philosophy, and some of that
might just be because it's the first year we're covering
him doing a draft. And yeah, there wasn't much to
learn about Bill's draft loos fy at the end because
there was twenty years of data to go through, but
we didn't really get anything about this draft. These press

(06:52):
comms is the last few years, whether it was Elliot
wolfor Matt grow I remember walking out last year. I
think I said this to you when I wrote it
at the Times, you can go and find it. I
came out of that saying they're going quarterback, receiver, tackle,
those are the whatever, whoever it is, that's the order.
Because Wolf he talked about the depth of the tackle
class and said they liked the group they had. He

(07:12):
kind of hyped up their receivers and like I remember,
he kind of laid it out the year before. They
talked about more in so many words, reliance on the
combine and what did we get we got a very
combine based draft. Yeah, so the last two years. This
press conference was very indicative, very telling. I felt like
we got quite a few answers to the test coming

(07:33):
away from that, I don't know that I again, I
think I have a better understanding of the way Rabel
viewsed roster building as a whole. But there's not much
and some of it is the way this draft is structured.
There's not much that applies to this specific draft. The
only thing I think that does. I don't know if
you want to start here or start somewhere else. I
want to jump the gun. But was his answer about

(07:55):
like taking a risk on a player who's maybe not
a personality fit if the guy's talented.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, that that is kind of where I did want
to start, because I thought that was the most important
answer to come out of the press conference yesterday, because
you know, just coupling this with all the buzz about
Jalen Walker lately as it pertains to the Patriots at
four overall, and you know, Jalen Walker just being that
type of guy. You know, I've compared him in the past,

(08:24):
both playing style, perspective and leadership to Dante high Tower,
just like one of those guys that is going to
be a captain, is going to be a leader, is
going to ooze football and tangibles and character in your
locker room. And I look at Rabel's answer yesterday where
it was Mikey already who asked the initial question about,
you know, basically drafting good guys, you know, football high

(08:47):
football character players, and he said he kind of stopped
him and was like, well, talent comes first, right, like
they gotta be good at football. And then he also added,
you know, just to get the direct quote, so I
can I can quote him directly. We can't can't do
what we want to do with just a bunch of
good dudes. That's not going to get it done. So essentially,
you know, I read at as him saying it's not

(09:10):
enough just to be a good guy. He also had
to be a good football player.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
So I interpreted that a little differently. I took that
more about Abdul Carter. And there's been that's obviously in
the news too, with Shuder meeting with the Giants again
and all of that, but that the Bob McGinn report
that you know, not the guy's not the there's just
some questions about his work ethic. Basically, not that he's

(09:33):
the worst person in the world, there's some questions about
his work ethic and is that the kind of guy
Vrabel's gonna want to bring in? And we talked about
I think we talked about this last week. I talked
about with Felger last week about this is part of
the reason why you build a strong culture, and that
was part of that question that it was she already
right specifically mentioned Morgan Moses and said when you have
guys like Morgan Moses and other leaders, does it help you?

(09:56):
You know? And builded this for years, builded this for years,
I would say more successes than failures. It wasn't all successes,
but the majority were successes. But it's a lot easier
to do that ten years into building the culture than
year one when you're trying to establish it. But what
I kind of interpreted that as from Vrabel was basically,
you know, if a guy's good enough, he's good enough,
and we'll make it work. And you don't want he

(10:17):
talked about you know you're gonna meet with him. You
don't want a guy that you think is irredeemable. But
all right, if a guy's not Matthew Slater, he's not
Devin mccordy, but he's a really in terms of leadership.
Obviously those guys are good football players, but if they're
not those guys in terms of how they operate in
the locker room, but he's a really good football player.
Will you need good football players first, and then you

(10:38):
bring them in and you work on it from there.
So there had been some questions about would the Patriots
rule out abdul Carter because of some of those mental
red flags. One, I think those are a little overblown,
but for what they are, and this team has put
culture at a premium throughout the offseason. I kind of
took that Vrabel answer to mean, as long as they

(10:59):
think he's within a realistic realm, which the stuff that's
been reported I don't think is anything egregious. Yeah, it's
maybe not what they want, but it's not egregious. I
kind of took that to mean, like Abdul Carter, that
stuff's not going to be disqualifying for him getting drafted
by the Patriots.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I think I think we're saying the same thing, just
through two different players. And the reason why I brought
up Jalen Walker was one because I don't feel like
we've necessarily totally unpacked Jalen Walker on the show as
a potential Patriot, because I haven't felt until recently that
he was really in this conversation, you know, I have him.
I'll look it up in a second to be exactly,

(11:35):
but I have him like eight or ninth on the
board right now, in the top ten. Certainly a top
ten player in this draft, but I don't necessarily see
him as a top five talent in a class like this,
even in a class like this, I should say. But
there's been a lot of scuttle but and this is
you know, mostly coming from the media obviously, that Jalen

(11:56):
Walker's character and his intangibles and his lead ship would
maybe push the Patriots to draft somebody like him, maybe
even over someone like Abdul Carter. And the way that
I took Vrabel's answer, just taking it at face value,
is I think the football player comes first, like who
what they are on film, and the talent of the
player has to come first. And I like Jalen Walker

(12:20):
as a player. I like the complete package that he
brings to the table, as we've been talking about. But
I have some reservations about picking him that high as
a tweeter, Like he's really not a guy that's going
to have a full time position. He's gonna be somebody
like High Tower that first and second down you're gonna
play him off the ball. Third down and obvious pass situations,

(12:41):
he's gonna be rushing the passer, probably off the edge.
You're gonna have to move him around. He's gonna have
to be a chess piece on the defensive side of
the ball. I don't think he's a natural fit at
either spot in terms of full time usage off ball
linebacker or at edge. He's also six and forty pounds
to lay the edge with that length and with that

(13:02):
size at you know, a seventy percent clip is probably
going to be unrealistic.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
No, he's gonna be a primary linebacker, like High Tire's
gonna be a primary linebacker. Even Bentley kind of and
Bentley's obviously bigger, but John Bentley kind of did that
a little bit. Yeah, I think you talk about the
talent coming first to me, it's more And Vrabel talked
a little bit about this yesterday. Was it you asked
this about like what's the tiebreaker if the players are
greated similarly, which is a great question for this draft specifically.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Try to get him. I think he knew what I
was going He knew he were going.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
For Yeah, but no, but he said some of the
things we've said, right, Yeah, position is a tiebreak. I
think he said that, right, Samium utility and premium position
is a tiebreaker. Combine testing, combine testing is I think
he didn't say it, But if I were to project
or just how I would approach it if I was
in that spot, and what does that matter? I don't know.
I'm not there. I would think though, like personality, leadership approach,

(13:56):
mental approach, I would think that applies as a tiebreaker
as well. So I don't know that it's you know,
Carter and Walker being the same player, like if they're close,
if they have Carter and I'm just pulling numbers out
of my ass here, Yeah, they have Carter graded as
an eight point five, they have Walker graded as an

(14:17):
eight point three. Are those leadership and tangible things? And
the questions about Carter's work ethic are those worth point
two right or point three? Does that put car? I
think that's more the conversation rather than like, well, they're
graded the same in Walker as I think it's about
does that how they view that couldn't be enough to

(14:38):
close the gap between the two.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Players, right, And just my opinion, like just going from
predictive mode to just my take on the players. I
don't think that those two players are particularly.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
I don't think they're that close either. But if they
have them, are they close in the Patriot's eyes because
the leadership makes them close or are they close on
tape and then the leadership comes in and puts Walker
over the top.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Because I just feel like, and it's not I hate
that if the draft discourse makes us do this, like
it sounds like I'm dumping on Jalen Walker because I'm
making an argument for Abdull Carter, But it's not the goal.
I'm not trying to dump on him. But I think
there's little things that are getting overlooked when we say, oh,
these guys are kind of just comparable players. Abdull Carter

(15:22):
is two inches taller and ten pounds heavier than Jalen
Walker is. I would also just say that he's a
lot more explosive and a lot more dynamic off the
ball than Jalen Walker is. As a pass rusher like
Abdull Carter has all the tools to be like a
Von Miller Micah Parsons level pass rusher. Jalen Walker is
going to have that in his back pocket that he's

(15:43):
a decent on the line edge rusher, but he's a
linebacker like He's truly an off the ball linebacker in
terms of the position, I think he's gonna lock the
most snaps at I would say it's probably gonna be
at the second level in the box. Now, unlike High Taler,
like High Tower had the side in the power and
and just the overwhelming, you know, sledgehammer of play straight

(16:05):
that off ball linebacker Walker has closing speed like Walker
is a very good open field bursty, closing speed type
of player that he can chase down guys in the
open field. I don't know if that was necessarily High
Towers game, but when I watch you know, Walker playoff
ball linebacker, I see a lot of the same, like
compressing space, you know, plugging gaps, firing downhill at the

(16:28):
line of scrimmage. You know, that's sort of his game,
is just clogging the middle of the field. And then
when you get into those pass rushing situations. You know,
he can rush off the edge a little bit, he
can rush over the guard or the center and use
quickness on the inside. So similar type of players. But
you know, Abdual Carter to me is in a different
tier completely the Jalen Walker. So it would be disappointing

(16:50):
to me a little bit if Jalen Walker was the
pick at for I'm not saying it would be the
worst pick in the world. We're not talking about, you know,
a cold, strange level react from me here, but it
would not be my pick like that would not be.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Fav I've used this line a lot in the for
this year's class, and I know it kind of sounds
like a cop out, but I think it's fitting. It
was my Mason Graham line for months. It still kind
of is. Yeah, I think Carter would be I don't
think Walker would be a bad pick. I don't think
he's the best pick they could make. Yeah, he's not
a bad pick. He's a good pick, but they would
be leaving there there are better players of it. And

(17:26):
some people may say, well, then that means he's a
bad pick because they didn't make the best pick. I mean,
there's what I mean by it is like there's ways
you can justify it where there there is a path
I think to Jalen Walker having a better career in
New England than Abdull Carter would. There is a path
to that. It's a much tougher path to get to, though,

(17:49):
than the path to Carter's peak. It would path to
Carter being better than want and it would have.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
To be like work ethic related, Like it would have
to be work ethic football character related.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, well that's why physical sales, that's why we're having
the conversation.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
But like, yeah, that's so they can he can get there,
they can the pick can be justified. Yeah, it's just
going to be you need a lot to go right
for that. Yeah. I mean you need a lot to
go right for any draft pick to be to work out.
It's not an easy process, but relatively speaking, there there's
more projecting you're doing with Jalen Walker, and this would
apply to other guys.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well. I wanted to kind of get to that because
to me, I feel like this draft has turned into,
you know a little bit Abdul Carter versus Jalen Walker,
which again I don't think is particularly close, but that
that's the conversations we're having.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
I think the real conversation to have is Carter and Walker.
And what I mean by or sorry is is Campbell
and Walker. Yeah, And what I mean by that is,
I think if Carter's there, you take him. And I
think if Carter's there, they will take them. So that's
That's not a conversation in the sense that we can
discuss the top three. But it's not we're not debating prospects.

(18:58):
It's not a conversation relating to the PA. It's just
wait and see if Carter's gone and Hunter's gone. Obviously
putting that qualifier in there, I think Carter or Campbell
and Walker is where you get. If I had a guess,
it's just me guess. There's no inside information. If I
had to guess, those are the top two players on
their board, and I don't know which one would be

(19:20):
one and two, but I would guess it's those two
and then everybody else.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
So the other answers that he gave that people are
dissecting a little bit here are are, obviously his response
about left tackle and the fact that he sees starting
caliber left tackle. Some people took that as him being
a little bit lukewarm, you know, not coming out and
saying this is the next Jonathan Ogden. I don't think
he would say that even if there was another Jonathan

(19:43):
Augda in this draft. But it did stand out to me.
And this is something that I've tried to reiterate a
little bit about this draft at tackle, because I think
there's some concern that if they don't draft a tackle
at four, then like last year, they're kind of gonna
miss the boat on true star arding upside at left tackle.
But he made it sound like he has a group

(20:05):
that there's a group. Now it could be Campbell, Membu
and maybe Calvin Banks end of group, right right. But
I think we've talked a little bit about and I
and I I see them as this, you know, the
ariantisies U, the Josh Connerley's of the world. You know.
I took that response and I don't want to do
body language doctor, Like, if you think his body language

(20:27):
was off on that answer and he's you know, out
on the tackles, then that's your prerogative. I don't look
that much into body language. I'm not a scientist in
that respect.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
He kind of he just kind of is the same
body language across question.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Wouldn't look too much.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Into that, just how he is when he's dealing with
the media.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
But is there you know, I still think that it's
very much in play that they draft who they feel
is just the best player available at four, regardless of position,
and come back up for a Josh Simmons and Arianisery
and Josh Connery or maybe hope one of those guys
foster them the thirty eight.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Uh, I think that's possibility. Like to me, there's two
ways to read that, and don't do you still transcript up?
I can pull it up, but.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
No, but I can.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I just I described that one the full answer. Look
at two phones. Thles are over here, Okay, the full answer.
He So he gets asked specifically, is there a tackle
worth taking it for him?

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:21):
And he kind of rather than answering whether or not
there's a tackle worth taking it for, he kind of
gets into what he thinks a player worth the fourth
overall pick is. Yeah, and he talks about a player
in an impact position who can make an impact as
a starter right away. And then he says, I think
there are multiple starting tackles in the draft.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
All right, So I got it. So I think that
that's really what you start to look for impact players
when you start picking that high. What they're going to
do for you, what's the impact, what's the position? You
talk about premium positions. That's where you weigh saw the
circumstances to be.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
He's not just talking the questions about tackles, but he's
not just talking about tackles there. I think that's his
philosophy for the fourth overall pick. And then he says,
I think they're yes, I think they're starting tackles in
this draft. Starting tackles in this draft doesn't mention four.
So you can read that one of two ways. Is
his qualifier for the fourth overall pick instant starter, in
which case starting tackles in fourth overall pick tackles would

(22:19):
mean the same thing. And we do know he talked
highly about Campbell and armand Membu at the NFL Owners Meets.
That's one way you can interpret it. The other way
you can interpret it is we yeah, they're starting tackles
in the draft. It doesn't just have to be at four,
So you can go one way or the other. I
kind of heard it as the former. Maybe that's me
going in with some preset bias about what I want

(22:39):
them to do. I'll admit that, but I'm with you
if there are starting tackles past the fourth pick. There's
not a lot We've talked about how fast this thing
drops off after arianta Ursery. Does he get to thirty
eight maybe, I really don't think Connorly's getting there now.
If Simmons gets at thirty eight, it means his knee
is bad, which I am. You guys know how I
am on that. I'm very worried about that. I'm not

(23:01):
against them not taking a tackle at four. They can't
let it come to them though, like last year, because
they will miss the run. I really think there's gonna
be a run on tackles again this year. And I'll
say I think there's gonna be a run on tackles
next year. I think this is going to continue to
happen until the tackle shortage is over, which is going
to take a few years to get there. So I
think they have to be ready to move up. They
have the ammunition to do this, and on the tackles too.

(23:23):
When we're talking about Simmons, it wasn't a tackle specific answer,
but he was asked by Andrew Callahan what lessons he
learned just from his top draft picks in Tennessee and
wasn't asked about injuries, but he mentioned just kind of
factoring in injuries when you look at a player, And
so with Simmons, who has an injury that is tough

(23:46):
to come back from, and there are long term not
just short term implications. It's not just about when will
he be healthy as a rookie, but will his knee
hold up structurally in the long term or will it
be long term to her ability issues because of this injury.
That is something that they're going to consider. Caleb Fairly,
I know, is the name that some people pointed to.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
There was also the Georgia tackle I'm blanking on right now,
his name Wilson. I think Wilson.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
He was here for like a second so practice.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
He was a late later first round picked in Fairly,
but they took a real chance on him both injury
and football character, and that that goes down as not
to pick on Vrabel, but that goes down as one
of the worst first round picks of the last decade.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah he got there.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, he didn't even really play for the Titans. So
they took on some risk with those picks, and both
of those guys had injury red flags, fairly had huge
injury red flags. Was a top fifteen, top twelve talent
in his draft just based off the film, but was
significant injury red flags, and neither one of those players
weren't out.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
So his was a back. Yeah, Failies was a back.
Wilson's it was I think it was an ankle. I
don't remember exactly what it was.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
There was also with and there were there were some football.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Character issues, but part of it too was he had
an injury that was was chronic, which means that it's
not something that Seltzer's going through this right now with
Jaalen Brown. It's not something that you heard it, it
heals and you're done. It's not like a broken arm, right,
It's something that is just going to kind of last
and always be an issue. I'm not a doctor, but

(25:22):
from what I've seen, like medical people say, this injury
that Simmons has can have not guaranteed, can have some
lasting impacts.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
So if that's the guy you're going to draft a
left tackle, I've made the comp before Malcolm Mitchell. When
Malcolm Mitchell was healthy, he was a good player, and
I think when Josh Simmonson is healthy, he's a really
good player. Is it gonna be healthy enough to justify
a first round pick? That's what I worry about. I
haven't seen the medicals. I wouldn't know what to make
of them if I did, but you know, you gotta.
I think he's one where I think sometimes teams really

(25:54):
like a player and maybe the doctors tell him be careful,
but you know, they see the tape and they sim
as the player. I'd hope they listen to the doctors
on And it sounds like Rabel from his experience in Tennessee,
understands that.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, especially early, I guess one thing to take an
injury flyer on a guy later.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Oh yeah, no. And I mean this is coming from
the same guy who has said, you know, I want
them to take Seth McLaughlin. Yeah, who's torn achilles. That's
no joke of an injury either. That's in the fifth round,
have fun with it. In the top fifty. It's a
very different conversation, all right.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
So the last thing that stood out to me from
this press conference, and then I want to move on
to my guys segment, on defense this week was obviously
the very answer at the very very end about Joe
Milton in the trade of Joe Milton, and I think
the if you just take his answer at phase value,
and look, he's not going to come out and say
that Joe Milton is a bad locker room guy and

(26:45):
it's not a good fit with Drake May. I don't
think he would come out and say that publicly. But
if we just take the answer at phase value about
the reps, I kind of understand where he's coming from. That.
When you go into a camp with an entrenched starting
quarterback that is not in an open competition of any
kind with anybody else, you go into that camp giving

(27:07):
like ninety percent of the meaningful reps to that quarterback,
especially when the quarterback is a second year guy, like
especially when it's a young quarterback in the league like
Drake May. So in order to continue to develop Joe Milton,
you know, I think he was just saying that they're
just outside of maybe preseason games where they you know,
they wouldn't want to play Drake May. They wouldn't want
to risk injury with Drake May. There wasn't a ton

(27:28):
of reps to go around. If you just take that
at face value. I think the only thing that I
took away from that, because I've kind of closed the
book on Joe Milton he's not here anymore, is that
them drafting another quarterback at least in the top one
point fifty that they might have some investment in and
they might feel compelled to develop. It just doesn't seem

(27:50):
realistic if they're going into this saying Drake May is
going to get ninety percent, Josh Dobbs is our true backup.
You know, he's our QB two as the veteran backup.
This sounds to me more like, Okay, if there's a
quarterback in the seventh round, they have two seventh round picks.
If they really like a quarterback at the end of
the draft and the seventh round, sure, you know, take
a fly or whatever. But I think they're kind of

(28:13):
looking more towards that like Camp arm territory of like,
let's just get some a third quarterback in here for
trading camp.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
They need, you need three quarterbacks operate, Yeah, you probably
need four. Really ideal you force they're gonna add quarterbacks,
but yeah, it's gonna be super late in the draft. Udfa.
But it goes back to something I talked about after
the trade, and I think kind of qualified it. I
think a lot of people are looking at it as well,
why would you trade your backup quarterback if Drake Mayge's hurt.

(28:41):
They viewed him as the third string right, he was
going to be the third string quarterback, emergency game day quarterback. Again,
Dobbs was going to be the backup. And so because
I think some people were confused, why would we request
a trade if he wants a chance to compete and
he goes to Dallas where Dak Prescott is ingrained as
the starter, because he wants he just want a chance
to compete for the backup job, which I don't think

(29:01):
they were going to give him here. He should beat
out Will Greer in Dallas and be there and Dak
gets hurt, so like you know, who knows. But I
don't think they viewed it as they were trading their
backup quarterback. They were trading the third string guy. They
were trading the emergency game day guy. Whether now, whether
you think that's right or wrong, that's another story. I
would have had him as the backup over Josh Dobbs.
I think Josh Jobs there in a room, experienced guy

(29:22):
like another coach. I would have had Milton as the backup,
and you know, assuming he continued to progress and all
that showed it on the field and kept up. But
I think they viewed him as the third quarterback.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, it just just looking you know how it pertains
to the draft. I think there are just some mock
drafts out there that I've seen with you know, a
Riley Leonard for example, or you know, we did a
mock draft yesterday before the Vaible Press or that I
took Curtis Rourke in the seventh round, you know, just
as a as a flyer. I think that's still on
the on the table. Potentially Curtis Rourke makes a loss sense. Yeah,

(29:53):
got a good two seventh round picks at the end.
You're really just trying to get ahead of undrafted free
agency at that point. Maybe they I'll do it at
that point in the draft, But I just look at
that quarterback spot as truly the third quarterback spot. Like
you're saying, and I was taking a step further, it's
basically just a camp arm as somebody that they can
maybe stash on the practice squad all year. Long, so

(30:14):
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be making any more
real investments at quarterback, you know, in terms of top
one fifty picks at that position. So did you have
any other big things that I missed? I mean those
were kind of my.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Pretty much again, like we didn't get as much out
of that as we usually do it. And it's not
me complaining. Yeah, right, Rabel has a different style.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, we didn't.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
The running back thing was a little interesting. All had that.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, I mean he definitely left the door open there
for gent, Like he didn't close it and say, no,
you know, we're analytically driven, we don't, we don't care
a running backs like you know, I would.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Have said, well, well, he did give a whole answer
on analytics. Yeah, yeah, which I know you love.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
But he did say you got to go back to
the film. You got to confirm it all with the film.
Which as long as you're doing that.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
I've always said, but that that the way that he
talked about analytics is allway, is how the way that
I think that you should apply your.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Way vouch for that community. You have to vouch for
the entire community.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
No, I don't yes, you do.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
It works.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
The analytics is a way in football. I'm not talking
about other sports. I don't know enough about it.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
This is like you pinning uh Dan Campbell on me
for being like a football guy.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Analytics are are a way to provide context to what
you're seeing on tape. So you watch the film, just
like Rabel said, you watch the film and you say,
this guy seems to be really good after the catch, right,
like that that's the strength of his game. Well you
might say that, and then you might look at the
analytics and he's you know, twenty fifth out of twenty

(31:41):
six qualified receivers in the draft and yards after the
catch per reception, and so then you just have to
go back to the tape and say, well, where's the
disconnect here? Was it the routes he was being asked
to run? Is it the scheme? Is it you know
where he's playing on the field? Like, why is the
juice that I see after the catch not translating to
the numbers? Whereas sometimes you might say this guy's really

(32:02):
good after the catch, and then the numbers say he's
really good after the catch, And now we have a
guy that we can say is a lead after the catch.
You know Luther Burden, Sure, Kyle Williams, you know someone
like that. Great that that's all it's all about. Uh
I did. I thought his answer about you know, the
injury prediction was really interesting. Yeah, I don't know as
much about that stuff as I do about like the

(32:23):
nerd math.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
But like you're talking about the one about Tennessee.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Uh, well he's he mentioned that they they have ways
predictive models about a durability and how and if guys
have prior injury in college, Like are those injuries you know,
to your point about you know Simmons's knee, like, are
those injuries going to linger into the pros? Do that?
Does that set up potentially injuries down the road? That
stuff is newer, I would say, in terms of the

(32:48):
sports science. But it's cool, like it's it's uh, it's
some innovative tech that's actually working in medicine.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
You want to use all the math you want the medicine.
I have no problem with that. Yeah, that fine, go
for that. But they're back to the running back thing.
I thought it was interesting because the question was like,
do you have a philosophy on like running backs in
the top ten? They basically said, no, I don't, but
they have to be able to do all these things,
and he basically just described Ashton Genty.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
But then the last thing he said was and what
the team's prior convictions are. So he basically said. The
question was do you believe a running back should go
in the top ten? And he basically said, if a
running back is really good, if a team is comfortable
taking them in the top ten, they should so yeah,
Like he kind of the answer for me was, well,
if they're like, if they're he was like ash And

(33:36):
the answer is basically, if a running back was going
to go in the top ten, ash and Genty is
that kind of guy. Yeah, I don't think they'll do it,
but it's something to remember if like Genty becomes a
free agent in a few years or request a trade
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
The interesting thing to me about his answer was that
he mentioned a receiving upside and like pass catching. Yeah,
and not that he's a zero as a pass catcher,
but like Derrick Henry is not necessarily James.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
He didn't take Derek Henry in the first round. Yeah,
And they remember, they repeatedly when Henry was there, brought
in smaller backs to catch the football. Deon Lewis there.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, well that's sort of My point is, like, so
Derrick Henry, and I know it wasn't a first round pick,
but Derrick Henry was their offense in Tennessee rightfully, so
they built the entire thing around him. Now, the one
thing that Derrick Henry I I think separates him from
other running backs that we've seen is there's a clear

(34:29):
correlation between play action success and Derrick Henry being on
the field. Like the Titans numbers with Derrick Henry in
the backfield on play action were just insane for like
a three or four year period because you know, obviously
defenses are stacked.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Running sets up the past.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
What a concept when you have Derrick Henry, sure, and
you have you know, just you know, Joe Schmoe running
back behind the quarterback, it's not.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Just say so, it's it's worth investing in a good
running back, I.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Would say Derrick Henry. My point was that Derrick Henry
is kind of his own thing in that.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Regard or the Eagles. What were the Eagles play action
numbers this year? I actually don't know.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
If thought my head, well, the guns here, it's different,
that's true, but yeah, they sure fine. But I thought
that was interesting that he included pass catching. I did
go back, you know, semi recently and watched you know,
some agent's twenty twenty three tape to get the pass
catching feel for him a little bit at a lot
more in twenty three. I still think that he's more

(35:24):
of like an underneath uh, you know, sneak out into
the flat, you know, check down over the middle type
of pass catcher. I don't know if he's a dynamic receiver,
like I don't know if you're gonna be mismatch aligning
him in the slot or out wide or having him
run all these vertical routes from the back, you know,
wheels fitting into the scene, things like that. Like, I

(35:46):
don't know if that's necessarily his game, but he certainly
is a a an adequate receiver.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
I would say, you know, for the basic wide receiver,
for the basic running back pass catching skills you're looking for,
he's go, yeah, like he's really good at that stuff.
But he's not a guy like I wouldn't put in
the same categori as a guy like Burshard Smith or
the Quinn Allen or Woody marks where you're gonna kind
of use him as a hybrid wide receiver like that
James White stuff. But for the the base stuff, you're

(36:15):
gonna ask a running back to doing the passing game
both as a receiver and as a blocker. I would
say he's not just baseline. He's better in those areas.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
All right, let's transition into my guys here and then
those second hour of the show will open up the
calls in the email, So just bear with us here
for a few more minutes. Hey Patriots fans, if you
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(36:44):
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(37:06):
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All right, let's get into my guys on defense. We
changed it a little bit up this week to get
a little bit faster through these guys. We spent a
lot of time on this last week. Well, this is

(37:27):
like the draft previous, I know, but I'm trying to
move it along a little bit quicker. So we do
have the five positions here, you know, interior, defensive line,
edge linebackers, cornerback, and safety. No we don't, Yes, yes
we do.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
They're going to take a kickers, So let's hold us
last week. Let's start week.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Let's start with the defensive line. Uh my, my first
guy on this list. I tried to do early late
I kind of cheated in. I tried to do that
as well.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
We don't know who the first round guys are on defense.
It's Carter and it's.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
And yeah, so my my defensive lineman on Day two,
Alfred Collins from Texas. I feel like, is your kind
of guy.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
He is? He was that was gonna be mild. I
had a couple, but he was going to be my pick.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
So six six yeah, three thirty yeah, thirty six inch
arms like this is just an absolute monster, monster of
a man. Now, if the Patriots were in a traditional
Belichick two gaping defense, like Alfred Collins is a two
gapping three four end is like exactly what he fits.
So I'm not sure it's an exact system fit for

(38:35):
what the Patriots are going to do now, but I
still look at him in the patriots a current defense
with Vrabel and there's in their new system like can
you play nose tackle?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
At that time they played that Jeffrey Simmons.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Role is a three technique. I mean, like maybe, but
I think that Milton Williams is going to play that role.
But like what I look at with Alfred Collins is
put him, you know, in the shade, in the A
gap and just let him hold the A gap for you,
like he's not going to be moved. I mean, that
guy's an app mammoth. Like he's huge, he's got great length,
he knows how to use it. I think the one
thing that really stood out to me though watching his

(39:06):
film that it was exciting that got me really excited
about the player. His motor like he's he's.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
A loves his calary.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
He runs hot and and to be that big and
play that hard for that many snaps in a game
is sometimes a question mark. And he is just a
mean dude.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
So obviously not it's not Rabel. Like oddly we've made
all these Tennessee comps with Rabel. I'm gonna this might
be a first for this offseason. I'm gonna make a
Tennessee comp that doesn't involve like Rabel. Okay, Simmons next
to Devandre Sweat because he's got some Toandre Sweat in
his game. He's playing that role in that Texas defense, right,
he's the next guy up?

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Like is that Milton Williams and Alfred Collins.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I really like Alfred Collins a lot I do. I
just thought that he can't teach size, he can't teach power,
and you can't teach effort and he checks all three
of those boxes.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
So since you went to him, yeah, I should go
Dion Walker. He's really falling now. That one sucks. I
was so ready to be he plays standing up at
three hundred and forty pounds like.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
That one but that's the problem is he like literally
and figuratively, he plays standing up his pad level.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
He plays like a player sign like fifty pounds smaller
than he is, and that is that is both a
good thing and a bad thing.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
He's got to get his pass down.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
You know. Sometimes there's like those cats that grow up
in a house with all dogs and the cat or
the doges the house all cats, and the dog just
like thinks it's a cat. Yeah, that's kind of like
like he he plays like a two hundred and eighty
pounds speed rusher. Yeah, but he's three hundred and forty pounds.
It's anyway. So instead of that, I'll go similar guy,
Jamark Caldwell. Yeah, similar, Probably gonna go a little bit

(40:40):
later Ben Collins. But same thing. One of these hyper
athletic uh three. I think he I don't think he's
three thirty. I think he's in the three twenties. Yeah,
but a guy that can kind of do some similar things.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Wide body just just a big butt.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Well you know that Bill Belichick Kirby Smart story about
the forty right, No, oh, have you not heard that?
Might have so, Kirby Smart told us at a coaching
clinic This was a few years ago, but it's on
Twitter if you want to go find it. And I
don't remember.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
If Kirby was with Bill the big butt.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, Bill wanted to stand. This is a Bill starting
line at the forties.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
This is a Bill Parcells thing.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Oh is it to see which lineman of the biggest
ass when they get down in the in the stands?

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah? No, that this is that started with Parcels. Who
by the way, Parcels. I mean, people know this, but
I'm not breaking any news. Parcells is an amazing talent evaluator,
like one of the best talent evaluators.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Pretty good for the grocery.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, that's out there. I mean, obviously he's going into
the Patriots Hall of Fame and uh and a big
reason why is because he drafted a lot of the
first pillars of Dynasty one point zero. You know, he
drafted most of those guys. He was he was the
first guy to talk about the behinds and making sure
that those linemen have having a big, big butts and

(41:51):
they cannot lie. All right, My next guy here, Day three,
interior defensive lineman Tim Smith. Tim Smith from Alabama. I
really thought he stood out at the Senior Bowl, downed
Mobile back in January. He's been on my list ever
since then. Heavy handed, aggressive, up the field, interior rusher.
I can stop, to run, can shoot gaps, can beat

(42:13):
guys latterly to the to the spot, really good upper
body strength. I feel like he's another one of these dudes,
like Alfred Collins is kind of like the second round version.
Tim Smith is to me the Day three version if
the Patriots are looking for that true interior run stuffer
and a pair next to Milton Williams and Barmore and
Keon White and just add to the rotation Tim Smith.

(42:35):
I've been trying all draft season mock draft big board
to find a place to write and talk about it.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Always one guy that like I want to get into
mock drafts and I don't.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, it just hasn't worked out. But I think that
Tim Smith is a Patriot type player for sure.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
So my Day three Alfred Collins guy. Day one's Kenneth Grant,
Day two's Alfred Collins. Smart Caldwell is Cam Jackson from Florida. Yeah,
another guy Senior Bowl. But I'm gonna go with J. J.
Pageese Pilgrim Mats big Board pick he's a project player.
He's a project player. He's not a guy that might
make an impact right away. He's supposed to go on
Day three, so that's okay. But really really good athlete

(43:13):
for his size, So I was trying to look. He
measured in at three twenty at the Senior Bowl, but
then was three zho nine at the Combine. So I
don't know where he's gonna play in the NFL. I
would like him to play around three fifteen three twenty,
but I think part of the reason he took some
of that size off is in addition to playing on
the defensive line, and he can play multiple positions.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
That's probably his best trade.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Well or is it the fact that they would you
and you think, all right, So I'm gonna say they
played him on offense. You're thinking three hundred and twenty
pound guy on offense, lead fall back like the Patriots
used to use Richard Seymour. No, they use him as
a running back. They use him as a short yarded
running back. He had twenty one carries last year. Eighteen
of them went for first downs, including seven touchdowns. He
can carry the football. He ran some routes at the

(43:59):
Combine in he didn't look out of place. So if
you put some weight back on, who knows where that's at.
But can he give you like a Patrick Ricard kind
of thing. And I know I've compared Robber Huts to
Patrick McCard, but this is much more similar with the
body type. And I think he has the potential to
be a multi positional, three down rotational player on defense.
He's got a ways to go to get there. Like

(44:19):
he's winning on pure athleticism right now. The technical part
of his game needs to be refined certainly, but this
coaching staff is good with that. And if you give
him a year or two, I think he can be
a really, really fun piece. I think he can be
a guy you can get really creative with and can
make an impact on both sides of the ball.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, I like it. His versatility was the number one
thing I wrote down, yeah, just in my notes about him.
I really felt like his speed to power was kind
of a foundational move for him. Though. You know, he's
got that ability to really roll his hips and convert
speed to power in the pass rush, and that's going
to give him a nice foundation. Maybe you add like
an armover or swim or something. Like that to just

(44:56):
compliment that I liked his tape a lot too, as
you know, an early day three, mid day three kind
of guy, impressive player in terms of the movement skills.
All right, let's go to the edge. I kind of cheated.
I put two day two edge guys. Gotta like them
bowl so much I couldn't decide. So my first one
is Femiola Daejo from UCLA. I just feel like he's

(45:16):
a Rabel type of player. Explosiveness, play, strength, effort, finish, versatility,
played off the ball early on in his career at UCLA,
then moved to the edge this past season, a great
Senior Bowl week. That's another one of those guys that
got on my radar down in Mobile. But what I
really liked about him effort, finish, explosiveness off the ball,

(45:40):
And I just am clamoring for the Patriots to give
Torell Williams and Mike Rabel one of these balls of
clay on the edge, Like I don't necessarily need their
edge pick to be an early, you know, top fifty
selection on a guy that's an already finished product, like
I'm okay with taking on some development upside there at

(46:01):
that position. I think Oldeho, the guy I compared him
to his boy Mafi out in Seattle, like you give
him a year or two to develop underneath Rabel and
Terrell Williams and Harold Landry and Chase On and Anthony
Jennings and Keon White are going to be playing a
lot of the snaps there in twenty twenty five, by
twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven, Like ol Day, who

(46:22):
might be one of the better Day two edge rushers
out of this class. He's got a ton of tools.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
I'll go to the opposite for Day two. I'll go
with the guy that's ready, Jack Sawyer.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
I've been on this since the beginning. They're kind of
guy culture, tone setter, physical. What's the word they've used
to describe their defense so many times? Violence? Yeah, right,
plays with violence.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Both these guys playing violence. You know.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Yeah, He's a guy you can put opposite calevon Chase
on your speed rusher. He's power on the other side,
the Ohio State thing, all of it. He just he's
he's such a fit. He is everything that this offseason
has kind of been pointed towards.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Absolutely the last one I had here and I can't.
I can't get this guy out of my head, even
though I don't think he's necessarily a great system fit anymore.
But Josiah Stewart from Michigan just twitched up rusher, really
undersized for the position, probably pigeonholed into like a three
four outside linebacker situational pass rusher type of role, which

(47:17):
is why maybe he doesn't make as much sense anymore
for the Patriots. But I just loved watching Josiah Stewart
at the Senior Bowl against USC last year, just absolutely
eight up the USC tackles, a great first step, exposed
in this great bend. Just an absolute twitched up mover.
I think he's gonna be a good proble. I think
he's gonna outplay his size, Like you know, Marcus Jones,

(47:38):
we had him in here on Patriots Unfiltered yesterday, Like
he's like the defensive back version of this. Josiah Stewart's
gonna be like the edge rusher version of a guy
who's undersized. So he'll probably go in like the third
or fourth round because of that. But it's gonna just
be a really good football player regardless of the size.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
All Right, you want the Day three version of that guy,
then sure. Colin Oliver Oklahoma State. Yeah, really productive for
the Cowboys for three years, miss most of last year.
I think it was a foot injury, right, yeah, foot injury.
So he's another one. There's an odd number of players
in this draft, like more than usual that missed significant
time last season, like in the season leading up to

(48:14):
the draft. So there's value there, right, and he's gonna
have to come back. He's another He's undersized. I have
it here. He is six two forty with thirty inch arms,
but he flies off the edge, great speed, good bend,
and he's had the production, so like he's kind of
proven it. He's probably never gonna be more than just
a third down rusher. But if you want a guy

(48:34):
develop in that package, he's gonna go later because it's
a deep class and he was hurt. And by the way,
there's spoiler alert, he's not the only Oklahoma State player
that fits this description. There could be some value there
and he could be an interesting find for them.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
I think I know where you're going. It might be
at the next position.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
It is at the next but the other guy, I'd
give you two How much have you done on Kaimon Rucker.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
He's on my list. I have like a couple of
more guys to go.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
I'm not sure what to make of him. I really
liked him in college, but it's tough for projecting him.
I thought i'd like it, like because when I watch
him in the fall and watch him as a college player,
mostly like I'm mentally filing it away. But like it's
tougher to project him to the NFL than I thought
it would be.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, I have like five or six more edge guys
I want to get to before the draft.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Maybe we'll cover that next.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Baron Sorel from Texas, Savion Jones from melosu Kay Robinson
from Alabama, who's getting some love now, you know as
a just an edge rusher, you know, pure speed edge rusher. Yeah,
so there's a couple more of those guys. All right,
let's move over to linebacker. My day two linebacker Demetrius
Knight from South Carolina. Yeah, shot out of the cannon,

(49:41):
just an explosive downhill trigger his game, his game against Alabama,
like had it all like just chasing down Jalen Milroe,
you know, and uh and closing from from depth on
Jalen Milroe and just tackling him in space, Like there's
not a whole lot of guys that can get Jalen
Milroe on the ground, like you watch Jalen Miller as
a runner is a leade elite, and Demetrius Knight's able

(50:03):
to do that. Like I said, physical downhill striker, take
online lineman at the point of attack. I run guys
down in the flats. You know, when he's moving downhill,
he's moving at a great speed, And I just love
his aggressiveness, his attack mindset. I think he's gonna fait
right in in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
So I feel like I've talked about a lot of
these guys. You guys know, I like Knight, I like
Chris Paul, I like Danny Stutsman, I like Beart Carter
Vrabel's gonna love Stutsman. Yeah, like Sutsman could be Patriot.
But yeah, I'll go I'm gonna give you two day
three guys. So one, this is what I was in
at Nick martin Oklahoma State. So it's a little different.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
They had him in here for thirty they did.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
It's a little different than Oliver because Oliver had played
he was a three year starter. He played a lot
for three years. I don't know he was a starter,
but like he had a regular role. Martin really didn't
play like at all until twenty twenty three. He was
freaking unbelievable one hundred and forty tackles all over the field,
looked like one of the best athletes on the field,
whoever the opponent was. I mean, he was flying around regularly,

(51:00):
get into the football, making plays on the ball, three
down player, all of that, and then two games into
the season last year he gets hurt and he was
the rest of the season. I don't know if you
have his injury ev and I don't have it pulled up,
but Mick Martins, yeah, so yeah, you talk about a
ball of play, Rightney, Okay, So, like I, I the

(51:25):
guys that just have one year of experience, whether it
be injury related or something else, it always worries me because,
as we've seen in the past, you can have one
really good year in college football the piece hasn't come together,
and that can just be kind of it. So, like I, I,
this isn't me telling you he's gonna be a great player.

(51:47):
This is me telling you there's a lot there that
I like that I'd like to see them work with
and the fact that he's a projected like fifth sixth
round pick, that's where you should be taking a guy
like yeah. So people are gonna hear this and say
Cameron mcgron and roll their Yeah. He is kind of
similar to Cameron mcgroun, if anything, is litt less experienced
than Cameron mcgron was.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
I got a lot of heat for liking Cameron mcgron.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
I'll take that flyer every time. If you take that
flyer four times the pick or five times, you get
one stud player out of it. And I'm talking about
in the fifth, sixth, seventh round.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, I'm fine.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
You want to take one flyer like that a year,
especially if you have like day of what eight picks, yep,
nine picks, go for it. So Nick Martin is a
guy put on that list, especially because the fit. I
think they're in a position where for And that was
the weird thing about mcgroen. He wasn't their kind of linebacker.
He didn't fit into their defense. I think Nick Martin
fits really well given the linebacker editions they've made, Like

(52:41):
he plays the position the way they want it played.
There's gonna be less of a growing curve for him.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
He was my fifty first guy on my Big Boy. Really,
I wanted to get him on there because I tried
to get everybody that they had in for a thirty visit.
Reportedly had in here a thirty visit. He's one of them.
And to your point, the way that they the body
type that they've looked for at line, it's nick more the.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Body and the athleticis. Yeah, he's a really good appen Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
He checks all the boxes for them.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
The guy that I had on day three was Jack
Kaiser from Notre Dame because I just think he's like
a throwback linebacker. Yeah, you know, he's just one of
those guys that's gonna, you know, move lad early, follow
the ball, good instincts, gonna be around the football a
lot as a tackler, going to clean up in the
run game. I believe that Jack Kaiser is gonna be
a tackling machine at the next level. He might not

(53:26):
be the most impactful linebacker, Like he's not gonna be
someone that's gonna make splash plays all over the field
like a Demetrius Night might. But Jack Kaiser, I think,
is gonna be a guy that's gonna rack up tackles
just being in the action.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Also team captain, and I think any any line as
we go, edge rusher's, linebackers, corner safeties, like yeah, when
you're getting a Day three that special teams experience is important.
He has a ton of special teams experience. Ye King's guy,
My Day three linebacker Sean Dolak from Buffalo. I don't
know how much you know about Sean Dorry. I don't
because that is the kind of guy that would be

(54:00):
a little off your board here. So Sean Dolak tell
me this sounds like a Mike Vrabel player. Sean Dolac
began his career at Buffalo as a walk on. Now
five years later he is a consensus All American. The
production is absolutely insane. I think he had one hundred
and sixty tackles last year, had one hundred and sixty

(54:22):
tackles two years before that. He was heard in between.
He's kind of undersize six five. You know, he's not
necessarily as big and as strong as some of these
guys are, but plays with great instincts, plays with a
great motor. Again, captain walk on to All American. That
whole thing he might not get drafted. He might be
u DFA. You talk about a guy that can come

(54:44):
in and be a core special teamer for years, certainly
has that projection, and then maybe he fills in a
little bit of linebacker as well. When we talk about
a Vrabel guy, like I kind of said before, Jack
Sawyer is everything that the sauces has been pointing towards
Sean Dolac. The tiebreaker there might just be Ohio State
because Sean Dolak has that as well. Isn't necessarily gonna

(55:06):
be like a big defensive weapon, but he seems like
the kind of guy they're gonna wan on the football team.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
All right, Corners, I'm sticking with the Notre Dame theme here.
I mean going with Ben Morrison from Notre Dame as
my I did too.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
He's there's great value there.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
He's injury, which I think is is a little bit
why he's not getting as much buzz as some of
these other guys at the cornerback position. But his man
coverage tape, like his ability to stick to receivers in
man coverage. I'll take that against pretty much any non
Travis Hunter corner in this class. Like I thought his
game against Stanford in particular. Was it was great. I

(55:41):
mean he was just in everybody's hip pocket for four
straight quarters. Feisty man coverage corner, extremely sticky and glued
to the route break at all times. He is a
pattern matching machine. Like, he's not someone that's gonna necessarily
make a ton of plays on the ball. He's just
gonna take this guy out of the game and you're

(56:01):
not gonna be able to throw him the football. I
am surprised, and maybe it's just a type thing. I
also think it's you know, a flavor thing. And I
think it's also you know, this time of year, a
lot of people tend to gravitate towards guys that have
big interception numbers or pick sixes or whatever the case
may be. You know, I'm a man coverage guy. It's
probably just from being a you know, a Patriots person.

(56:23):
But I look at Ben Morrison as as one of
the top top man coverage corners in this crowd.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Well he was. He was a first round pick until
the hip injury. Yeah, so he's another guy. It's another
guy where like the medicals are gonna be a part
of the evaluation. Yep, I should probably go Darien Porter
or Chevon Revel, Like that's so my kind of corner. Yeah,
I think I saw Revel komped to h Tarik Wolan.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, I was a little disappointed with Revel a tad.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
How there's nothing to see. He's played like fourteen games,
I know, but I you got to watch something and
he's a pure projection.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah. Uh, he's a little stiff, like he's he's a
big stiff dude, but he's a literally explosive guy. Like
I could see it.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
In like the right matchups. Right, he's his own corner,
which is tough.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yeah, I just didn't necessarily love the transitions, Like I
thought he was a little stiff in the hips, but I.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Think that's something you learn as you play. And he
just hasn't played a lot of football. Yeah that's possible,
like the injury this year killed him. So those are
those of the guys I'd usually go towards Sevon Revel,
Darian Port, I means six three two a what random
four to three, he's just like ninety years old. And
another guy that's his own corner, yeah, Jacob Parrish, Yeah,
Jacob Parrish. There's a lot of John Jones there. Yeah,

(57:33):
there's a lot of John Jones can play the slot
like he'll be primarily slot corner. The NFL can play
the boundary, can play safety, plays bigger than a size, physical,
really smart football player. That's just kind of guy you
want your secondary. I think versatility all right, versutill He's
probably more important on the offensive line than anywhere else.
After that, I think versatility in the secondary is more important.

(57:54):
The more you can do in the secondary, not only
does it help you keep depth, it helps you just
guy's coverage it right, because if a guy can line
up anywhere and realistically play any of those spots, the
defense doesn't know what to expect or the offense doesn't
know what to expect. So I think Parish can come
in here give them depth in the slot. Could potentially

(58:14):
start if Marcus Jones leaves. He's in a contract here.
I'd like them to keep Marcus Jones, but you know
he gets hurt a lot too, write that sort of thing,
and I just think he can be useful player for them.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
I had one corner on my big board. Yeah it
was Jacob Parish. Like I feel like Jacob Parrish to
play this.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
I had one corner on but he said to the
visits they met with Blalcomb and it.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Was Jacob Parish who also they reportedly had a visit,
and I just you explained it. He's Jonathan Jones to
point out to me and to play the slot. Carlon
Davis and Christian Gonzales on the outside, Jacob Parrish in
the slot makes a whole lot of sense. I think,
you know, Jonathan Jones is probably the right colm. There's
a little bit of Trent McDuffie in there if you

(58:57):
want to go ceiling, like if you want to be
a hot really on the player. But that's the archetype, right,
a guy that's probably at his best, you know, playing
inside or moving around the formation with like a a
Z receiver, you know, the pure route runner of the
of the group, and then you know, occasionally play on
the outside. But I love Jacob Parrish's film. He also

(59:18):
puts his nose in there in the run game at
his size pretty well and scrappy guy too, So I
was really high on him too. U Day day three
cornerback Mac McWilliams, Yes, UCF had.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
That's kind of Day three. I was literally about to
say the other John Jones comp John Jones.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I kind of see a little Jack Jones in him too.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Like I said, there was somebody I think was Kobe Bryant,
I saw like Jones.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah. So Mac McWilliams is again, a slot corner, probably
a nickel at the NFL level, maybe a safety, even
nickels safety if you want to call it that.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
He played a little deep safety at Yeah, he.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Can play man to man in the slot though. I
had a really good Senior Bowl week. Was really feisty,
really sticky and coverage, play man to man, you know,
run around with slot corner slot receivers. I should say
all day long. I really liked mc McWilliams and mobile.
I thought he came in with an edge. I thought
he came in with some fires and competitives, that alpha
corner mentality, like he'd break up a pass and you

(01:00:16):
let him hear about it. I like those types of guys.
It doesn't hurt to have those types of guys. Ever,
So if you know Jacob Parrish is kind of the
day too version of this, I would say Mac McWilliams
is the day three So.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
I and you covered it all there, and I love
his ability to play safety too. Yeah, I am curious
what you thought. We talked a little about a bit
about him last week of Denzel Burke.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah, so Denzel Burke to me was I had some
questions about his top end speed, his long speed to
carry verticals on the outside a lot. It kind of
reminds me a lot of Sean Waite like in terms
of his career path. And maybe it's just the ohigest
very similar.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
It was a really high projected player early on in
his career, had an injury, had some issues.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Well not just projected. He was a freshman All American.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Yeah, so he was.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
He was the first true freshman to start again to
start the season open for Ohio State since former Patriot
Andy Katzimware.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Oh that's an interesting stat.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
I just want to get Andy Katzman. Yeah, I know
there and the show of like three years you've never gasl.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Burke is one of those guys that's gonna play in
the league for a while. But he might not ever
be like a standout player, but he's going to be
able to play a lot of snaps. A comp that
I came up with with him was kind of like
a Jalen Mills type, right, Like he's just that sort
of player, like not necessarily exactly the style of play,
but just like the usage of like, Okay, this is

(01:01:40):
gonna be an NFL defensive back for a while, But
is he ever going to be like a number one corner.
Probably not, but he's he's going to belong on an NFL. Yeah,
that those are your corners.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
I mean, if I had to give another one, it
I like blal Cone. I don't know how much sense
he makes for them at this point. They need slot guys.
They're actually pretty good on size. But who's the I'm
laying you on the name now there is another slot guy.
Oh Jabar Muhammad. Yeah, Morgan played on the boundary exclusively,
almost exclusively in college. Was part of both the Washington

(01:02:12):
Or and Oregon teams that went to the playoff. He's
gonna move in the inside of the next level really good.
When the ball's in the air, he you know, he's
not the stickiest cover corner, but he's fine. But he
does a good job of recovering. And then when the
ball's in the air and at the catch point, especially
for guys' size, is very very competitive. So I think
there's some real UNTAP patent if you can improve his

(01:02:33):
cover skills and kind of get him, you know, in
the film room and recognizing patterns and things like that,
and just maybe work on his footwork. I don't know
exactly what it is that his cover skills aren't there.
Those are just a couple of things that can you
can do to improve it. Like I think there's some
real untap potential. But he is small. He's gonna have
to play in the slot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Okay, safety, See this is a good pace, all right.
He didn't take an hour and a half to get
through all the different positions. Is nice already. Kickers.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
I don't care if say we're doing kickers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
My day two safety might be the same as yours.
But I just love this player so much I had
to give him the hype. Andrew from Texas is just
the absolute dog.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
That's the That's the guy I've been screaming about them
getting for two years now retired. Is that not the
exact guy? He so?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
For whatever reason, like I feel like I'm much higher
on him than a lot of other people.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Are, Like every week, what are you people looking at?

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I think it's because of the size, Like I would think,
like he's not the biggest guy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
I'm not super word. How big was devinc Cordy? I'm
not super fine. Can you cover ground? That's all I
care about all but like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Just absolute uh shot out of a cannon trigger to
the football, whether it's ranging over the top, you know,
fill in the alley in the run game, screen game,
whatever the case may be. That interception that he made
against Georgia was just ridiculous, uh, insane ball skills, Like
has that ability to rotate, you know, down into the

(01:03:57):
robber role or play the deep part of the field,
or play split safety. I just think that he's gonna
be a hell of a football player. That another one
of those guys that might not have like the size,
speed measureables that everybody you know goes ooh and ah over,
but it's gonna vastly outplay the physical tools that that

(01:04:17):
are at his disposal, with instincts and just you know,
feel for the game and and uh and just talent,
you know, in terms of football talent. So I can't
say enough good things about Andrew mccooba. I think he's
a heck of a safety. And I put Billy Bowman
like kind of in the same sort of bucket. Guy
with those two guys. I thought both those guys were
awesome watches.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Yeah, mccoob was one of my favorite players in this draft, like,
not like one of the best, but I think he's
really good at what he does. And the fact he's
getting slept on since you took him for Day two.
I'll just throw Xavier Watson there another guy that I
think could play the back end for them. Yeah, but
I I like mccoomba and Bowman. I Bowman now is

(01:04:59):
getting Day two looks. Apparently. I thought he was like
one oh six great, but now I guess some people
think he could go on day two. I think Bowman
is a little different Bowman played. He's he's shorter, but
he's like he's got more muscle on him, a little
bit more. I think he plays the game more physically,
more with an edge. He's more to me that hybrid.

(01:05:20):
He's kind of similar to Mac McWilliams, where I think
they're both hybrid slot corner deep safeties. But I think
McWilliams is more primarily a corner. I think Bowman is
more primarily a safety like Andrew mccoob. But we've talked
about this.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Put mccooba as a playmaker that is gonna be around.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
So, like, we've talked about this deep safety role for
a few years now, and we talk about it every time.
We talk about it in two ways, Devin mccorty and
Deron Harmon. And there's the guy that's gonna be out
there and you're gonna play single high a lot because
this guy's on the field seventy eighty ninety percent of
the time Devin mccorty was leading the Patriots and snaps
every year. And then there's also, all right, if you

(01:05:57):
don't get that guy, can you get a guy like
Drawn Harmon who can come on the field and just
play it situationally when you're in clear passing situations, two
minute trail, third and long things like that. So, to me,
like Billy Bowman is a situational deep safety. Billy Bowman
is not gonna be a guy who's gonna play ninety
percent of your defensive snaps. It's gonna be out there
fifty to sixty percent of the time. He's gonna play

(01:06:18):
the role really well, but you're not gonna want to
overdo it. Andrew mccooba, I'm fine if Andrew mccoop maybe
not as a rookie, but like Andrew mccooba, to me
is a guy that can full time play the Devin
mccordy role and be on and not come off the field.
Bowman to me is more situational. So the guy that
I looked at and I say rotational in that situation.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Yeah, I have been pumping this guy's tires as sort
of the Deron Harmon Day three pick is Malchai Moore
from Alabama. Yeah, who has similar you know, range and
instincts and ball howking ability in the deep part of
the field. I think he's one of those guys that
is exactly the Deron Harmon role, like third down in
eight and you gotta have it, like you just put

(01:06:59):
him in the deep middle. He's going to cover the post,
He's going to cover over the top. He's gonna, you know,
take advantage of those arm punts that every once in
a while Dron Harmon would take advantage of the closer
right and go and make those types of plays. Is
he Ed Reid in the middle of the field. No,
like's not. He's not that kind of impact player, but
he's a guy that can come in and play that

(01:07:20):
role and allow Kyle Dugger and Jabriel Peppers to do
their thing closer to the line of scrimmage. And we've
been talking about this a lot, and I feel like,
you know, every single year, and some people push back
on it, but I really feel strongly that they got
to get those guys Dugger and Peppers back into their
natural spots, especially yes when the game is on the
line and when they're really in those money situations. Get

(01:07:43):
Kyle Dugger out of the middle of the field, get
him closer to the box, get him moving forward again,
get him blitzing, get him covering tight ends, you know,
like that sort of thing. I think there's so they're
much better players when Dugger and Peppers are doing those
types of things versus asking them to play free safety.
So even if it's a guy that comes in that's
only going to play thirty five forty percent of the

(01:08:03):
snaps fifty percent of the snaps, but it's allowing those
guys to play where they should be playing. I think
that would really complete this secondary like puzzle completely to get.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
We're back to the Javon Holland talk based all right,
do you have any more safety Day three? Deep Safety Uh,
Dante Trader from Maryland.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
I loved him at the Senior Bowl. I thought he
was a really good player.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
This is Bill's guy. You know, he was a top
ten lacrosse recruit coming out of high school.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Yeah, he was. He he moved up the board a
little bit. I think maybe the Senior Bowl helped him.
He had a good week down.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Big Tom lacrosse player and football player.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
And you know, I was just going to get to
focus on football. Rob like again too, sport athletes like.
He's athletic as hell. He's one of the most truly
athletic players in this draft to me, hyper athletic safety.
At the very worst, you're getting a plus special teams player.
And for a guy that's projected to go I mean,
I think could probably get him one seventy one would

(01:09:00):
be the earliest I think you need to take him.
You might be able to get him with those two
hundred picks. A guy like that to make good, that'd
be good solid pick.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah, he's kind of a hybrid safety to me, just
at least the way I used him at the scene.
But I think he's he can play a little bit
in the box and cover tight ends and also played.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
He's still so raw. I like him as a coverage player.
He's still so raw. You've got to turn him into
whatever you want him to be. I don't know that
he has a skill set at this point that it's
like he needs to play here, he needs to play there.
He's just an athlete. Stick him somewhere and let him
learn the position.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
In mobile he played, they had him doing one on
ones against tight ends for a lot of the week
and he did a really good job. Like I think
he was one of the better safeties in respects of,
you know, covering some of those tight ends down there
at the Senior Bowl. So definitely a guy on my
list as well. All Right, we're going to get into
all your lovely calls and emails here. We've got tons
of emails rolling in alex So as you can expect,
you know, eight days before the draft. You know the

(01:09:52):
people you want to be heard from. But before we do, wait,
we we more position.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
You almost stuck down by me. Yes, give me one kicker.
Give name a kicker in the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Ryan Fitzgerald.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
All right, why Ryan Fitzgerald flories state why big Leg Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Can hit from fifty plus? Made a fifty nine yarder
against Georgia Tech.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
I heard.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
I read that on NFL dot Com.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Yeah I did. I think that was an islands.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Yeah, big leg cut it through the Foxborough winters, got
good ballflight, you know, the ballflies high, which is what
Jeremy Springer was talking about. I got to cut it
through the wind in the air here in Foxborough. Ryan Fitzgerald,
I still like Sauls. I think they're gonna take Borgallis is.
The other thing Springer talked about a.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Lot was consistency. So Sauls had a really good twenty
twenty two. He had an excellent twenty twenty four. He
kind of slipped in twenty twenty three. He took a
step back. He didn't have a good year. Borgallis has
been steady all four years, has been a starter at Miami.
I think that's what they're gonna value more than the
bad weather.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Yeah. Fitzgerald, at least from what I read, again, did
not do any homework on the Kickers, besides reading NFL
dot COM's scotting report. Yeah, like forty to forty nine
range is a little iffy for him, but he's like
money from inside forty and then he's got the big
leg to kick fifty plus, but those like intermediate kicks
were a little bit of a up and down roller
coaster for him, And I feel like that might take

(01:11:11):
them off the board, you know, that might put them
in a different category.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
So then the guy you're probably looking at, if you
value that, is Tyler Loop from Arizona. Loop seven of
eight from forty to forty nine last year, but also
was six of nine from fifty plus, including Evan a
sixty two yard sixty two.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Get the all right, you good? Now at your.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Kickers, there's like just numbers wise forget talent. There's not
a lot of kickers in this draft.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
No, no, but it's but there's in like there's some
draftable kickers. Yeah, I just named the couple.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Pork also get drafted. I think fitzals and Fitzgerald might
be Yeah, Loop, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Patriots Catch twenty two is sponsored by Massachusetts two fifty campaign,
commemorating a history of possibility, Plan your revolutionary weekend at
Massachusetts two fifty dot org and easy to drink, easy
to enjoy. But like the official beer sponsor of the
New England Patriots. All right, let's get to your phones.
Into your emails. Thank you so much for waiting on
the line. I know you guys have been waiting for

(01:12:05):
a while. Patty is an aguam. What's up, Patty?

Speaker 5 (01:12:09):
What is going on?

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
Jon?

Speaker 6 (01:12:11):
How we doing doing great today?

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Man?

Speaker 6 (01:12:14):
Eight days to the draft. I just wanted to express
one of the things that's been Somebody brought this up
and I can't remember who brought it up, but like
the facts are not the fact, but like the hypothetical,
if we were to pick genty at number four, what
are the odds that, like he signs a second contract?
And just let me rank here for a minute. Alex,

(01:12:35):
I'm in agreement with you because I think you were
one of the first two people to bring up I mean,
our first three round guys. You know, they they have
to contribute, they have to play, they have to contribute,
maybe not even start. But to me, the bigger picture
thing with this draft, because it doesn't look like it's
gonna happen with what's the last year's draft, is I

(01:12:58):
want all three of those picks, all four of those picks,
I'm sorry, in the first three rounds to be able.
I want guys that are going to sign second contracts
because how long did we go without signing a first
or second round guy over the last ten years? I
think Duggar was like the last one last year, right,
And I don't even know the answer to the question.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
I remember looking it up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
It it was.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Yeah, it'd been like five or six years.

Speaker 6 (01:13:22):
And I think, I mean, anyway, not only do they
need to hit, they need they need guys that they're
going to sign second contracts and be part of this
nucleus in this in this rable era. That's all I got,
That's all I had to get off my JAD. But
I'll tell you guys next week next week with my
predictive picks.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
Awesome, love it, Pattie, Thanks for the call. It was
a while that in between guys. It was like Dante
high Tower was like the last one for like a
really long time in between guys that they drafted in
the first round and signed the second contracts. I think
Juwan Bentley might have ended the run technically for overall
draft picks yeah, which.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Is uh, yeah, I've never and Jennings knows and Jennings
for top one hundred picks before them, it was if
you don't count, if you don't count, Joe Toney's franchise
tag it was Oh, that's right, it was Logan Ryan
and Deron Harmon. Yeah, so they had a get there.

(01:14:17):
As for Genty in a second contract, I mean it's
a fair question. It's obviously a position where durability is
more more of a question than usual gent you're not
drafting gent d. I don't want to say you're not
drafting Genty with a long term outlook. I don't want
to say this, like I think one of the big
boosts for drafting Genty if you're drafted, the part of

(01:14:40):
the conviction for drafting him. He's an immediate chart shot
in the arm of the offense. This is not a
guy that needs to develop. This is not a guy
that needs to grow. He's going to step on the field.
Does he have just all things, even Evan, Yeah, he has.
He has a quicker path to make an impact. He's
a better chance to make a massive impact more than
any other player they'd take it for.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Yeah, if you know, Travis Hunter and Abdol Carter aren't there.
I think that what you're trying to say with Gendi
to me at least, is like you just inherently expect
running back to have a little bit of a shorter
shelf life. Yeah, and I think his career, I've said
this in the past, I think would probably mirror something
like Zeke Elliott's career, where the rookie contract is phenomenal,

(01:15:25):
Like he's like an All Pro player every single year
of his rookie contract, but then once you get into
the second contract, you're five year six, year seven, you
just see a precipitous drop off like you did with Zeke.
I think it's similar because Zeke also carried the ball
out at Ohio State and was like a featured back
at Ohio State, and then he came into the NFL
and was the best player from his rookie class. Is

(01:15:46):
his rookie year, I would say, and was awesome for Dallas,
Like Dallas was a wagon that year and had him
in the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
I just think if you're drafting genty, part of the
reason you're drafting him is to get the offense going
as quick as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
Yeah, that's probably so you think the Dallas was probably
you know, they didn't know that Dak was going to hit,
but they had a similar kind of plan for sure
with the Cowboys. All Right, Todd is in North Carolina.
What's up, Todd, Todday, Todd?

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
What you got.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
Three?

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
Two one?

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
All right, Todd? We had you on hold for a while.
Give us a call back if you want. Randy's in Providence.
What's up, Randy?

Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
Hey, how's it going? Guys? I had a quick draft
question for you and a couple of names I wanted
to throw at you, but I first Alex had been
talking about working at the stadium to open the program,
and I wanted to share a quick story, if you
don't mind, when I worked there in the warehouse in
like two thousand and five and two thousand and six,
that was the year Teddy Brushy was coming back. And

(01:16:45):
the warehouse they like stock up concession stands and food
locations and stuff. And back then, the security CSC guys
had like a food rum right by the mouth of
the tunnel, and I was stalking that up when Teddy
Brushy came out onto the field. And I mean he
was at the podium all the time. He tea him
on TV, and he looked like a totally regular dude.
You know, he looked like someone's dad. He's very conservative,

(01:17:07):
mild mannered, et cetera. But I remember watching him run
past me, and he just looked like a madman. His
eyes were so intense it was it blew my mind
that it was the same guy that I had seen
on TV. So I don't know, I thought it was
a fun story to share with you. But the Travis Hunter,
he came out with the CBS basically saying like I think,

(01:17:31):
directly saying, if he wasn't allowed to play full time
both sides of the ball, he would essentially retire. And
I wonder how you guys think that's going to affect
his stock, not just with us, but just like with
the rest of the league, and not even just in
that he wants to play both sides of the ball
full time, but the idea that he can come in

(01:17:51):
making such a demand might offset some coaches or ruffle
some feathers and so puts. And then the couple names
that after he guys is uh, I don't think I
heard you mentioned either Omar Norman Law or J. J.
Pagays good penetrating tackles. And then one guy on offense.
Have you guys seen any lamb laris and tape? The

(01:18:12):
guy is it's it's wild stuff. I mean, one hand
to catch it as well. He's breaking tackles, hurtling players
left and right. It's really entertaining, highlight, real stuff to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
So thanks, thanks for the caller. Any good call to
the first point? Uh what was the first place? Travis
Hunter saying Travis Hunter, Yeah, that's what I want. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
So for he didn't say he'd retire if he couldn't
play both ways full time. The full time was not
a part of that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
Also, go ahead, dude, like, don't play football. I I
don't think it's gonna impact it that much.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
I don't think it impacts it at all.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
No, he he wasn't talking about playing full time. And
I do think he'll play whatever, and he's gonna play
wide receiver primarily. I think wherever he ends up, I
do think he'll still mix in a little bit on defense.
And I again i'd call his block right, say you know,
all right, finding go cover kicks. You want to be
on the football field, so bad, go cover kicks.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
I don't think it's gonna matter one. No, I think
that this kind of stuff never really truly matters to
prospects status. I mean, he's obviously extremely unique in terms
of what he can do, but I think he's going
to be a Cleveland Brown, And I don't think there's
really much that he could say outside of like pulling
like an Eli Manning and saying I refuse to play
for the Cleveland Browns. Right, that would stop him from

(01:19:29):
being a Cleveland Brown. So I don't necessarily look too
much into any of that kind of stuff. And I
am with you, it's not necessarily that he's saying that
he has to play one hundred percent of the snaps
on both sides of the football. He just wants the
opportunity to potentially play both sides. And I keep mentioning
it because he was with us yesterday. But you know,
Marcus Jones has played both sides of the ball. Obviously

(01:19:50):
not at a high clip on offense, but he technically
has played both sides of the ball. So I don't
think it's going to be too hard for a team
to pease Travis hunt Her in that respect. You'll get
them snaps on both sides of the football eventually. All
right here he is Eldred's in North Carolina. What's up? Eldred?

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
There we go, Hey, fellas, how y'all doing good? I
got a question, really too okay, uh, every mock draft
and then some of the chat sports or NFL Rush
Patriots or whatever you know podcast be listening to why
everybody want to keep getting splot receivers when all that

(01:20:30):
we got is a bunch of slot receivers, not an X,
not a true EG. And the stuccest question is what
round do because I can't finding on PFF. Do they
got Jordan uh selected to go in and Jalen Smith
and John Giles if they're coming back or they just

(01:20:53):
camp body and I.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Take it off their Thanks fellas, Thanks Eldrid. I think
those last two guys that you mentioned they were on
the Patriots roster are our practice squad, you know, camp
tryout types. Dante Thornton I think is probably gonna be
mid day three, you know, fifth or sixth round up there.
He is a complete project, Like he doesn't have very

(01:21:14):
many branches to his roundtree. He's got you know, catch
point issues that he's going to have to work out.
He is a size speed project. And you know, if
he goes to a team that knows how to develop receivers,
like if he goes to Pittsburgh for example, and trades
a trains underneath dk Metcalf, who is like probably the
apex of his archetype. Then maybe Dante Thornton can turn

(01:21:36):
into something.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
The reason it's a good question about you know, there's
a lot of conversations about Jalen Knowle or Kyle Williams
or Luther Burden, you guys that play in the slot
versus outside. And I would just say, there's not a
ton of pure x receivers in this draft at the
top of the draft. But outside of Ted and Jenden Higgins,

(01:21:58):
if it's not one of those two guys, maybe Trey Harris,
you know, would probably be like first, second, third round.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
And so those are the three guys that really that
I can think of unless you're an a man or
guy who can play a little bit on the outside
maybe full time and you know, obviously like Day three guys.
But that's what I think. The enticing guys is the
point I'm trying to make. You know, Noel Williams, Burden,
like Buka, Matthew Golden, even like those guys are more

(01:22:28):
move you know, Z flanker type of receivers uh than
the pure x guys. And that's just the type of people,
you know, the type of receiver that people are looking for.

Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
Well, I would also push back on the idea that
all the Patriots have are slot guys. I don't think
that's at least not proven. Uh, you know I, Pop
Douglas is not. You gotta we gotta go back to
that McDaniels offense. That's the other reason we're talking so
much about the slot. This is not an offensive passing
game that runs through the X receiver. It's an offense
that runs through the slot receiver in the tight end.

(01:22:58):
So Pop Douglas is a good player. Like I have
nothing against Pop Douglas. He's not a Josh McDaniel slot player.
He's gonna be more in that Chris Hogan role. He's
gonna line up in the slot, but he's gonna go
more vertical. He's not a chain mover. He's not a
guy you can throw the ball two one hundred twenty
times a season. He's just not built for that. Jalen
Polk is more that prototype. But is he a guy

(01:23:20):
that you're comfortable putting into that spot without any real
competition this year? After that, Baker's gonna play primarily on
the outside. Booty is a z outside guy. I think
Bourne is a true Z. Maybe you're gonna play Steph
Diggs in the slot, but I guess I should have
included him in there. If they're comfortable with Diggs is

(01:23:41):
that guy. I don't know that that's the best uses
of him, though I want him as the Z. To me,
ideally it's Diggs. Digs is the full time Z. Pop
Douglas is kind of your fourth receiver, your big play.
You know he's not gonna play a lot. When he's
on the field, he makes an impact. He's Dan Avindla, right,
And then you gotta get at an X in a slot.

(01:24:01):
And I don't even know that they need. Like, if
they want to throw Booty out there at the X, fine,
if they get a really good slot receiver, I think
that would work. Or you have Booty and Born and
Baker all compete, what have you? Like, I do think
slot's a need because this is a slot heavy offense.
They don't have anybody proven there. Pop Douglas to me
is a proven player, but he's not a guy you
can put in that role in this offense for what

(01:24:22):
that players asked to do well.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
So the question is really and coming off the injury
is with Diggs, it's his dig's going to be able
to be a high volume receiver next year. Because if
he's a high volume receiver next year, then he is
the Z receiver in this offense that gets fed to targets.
That's the Edelman Welker, you know, Dion Branch, Troy Brown

(01:24:44):
type of receiver in this offense. Like he's the chain mover,
he's the engine of the offense. My big question with
McDaniels just in general, you know, and we get to
talk to him a little bit more like his offense
is historically now not so much the Raiders because they
ended up getting DeVante Adams and they kind of pivoted
away from this, But historically speaking in New England, they've

(01:25:05):
had a sacrificial X receiver whose job is literally just
to draw coverage away from where they're actually trying to
throw the football. So is he always going to have
an X receiver that's just doing wind sprints on the
outside and occasionally if he gets behind the defense he'll
see targets. Or are they going to try to revamp
the offense around a X receiver that is the high

(01:25:27):
volume guy in the offense. You know, they did it
in Vegas, DeVante Adams. They obviously did it here with
Randy Moss, but that's DeVante Adams and Randy.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
Moss and even those two guys. Even those two guys,
Moss was here with Welker. Yeah, Moss wasn't catching a
hundred passes, right, Welker was to a lesser extent in Vegas.
Kobe Myers, yeah, was in that role. So you need
a guy in the slot that you're comfortable targeting one
hundred to one hundred and twenty times in the season.

(01:25:55):
It's that guy on this roster right now. I don't
think so.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
So you don't think it's Steph Diggs because I think
it might be.

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
He probably is the best shot. Yeah, I wonder with
the injury, if that's how they want to use him.
You also don't have him at the beginning of the year,
like you don't know where he's at. Fair Enough, he
is the best shot, But I don't feel great about
Pulp being that guy. I like again, I like Pop
as a player. That's not his role, that's not where
he's going to be at his best. Maybe who else
is even really in contention, like has the skill set

(01:26:24):
for that?

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
Yeah, I think that's their vision for Diggs, assuming that
he's healthy, is to really be the chain mover and
be the engine of the offense.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
And I want to see him in was in in
twenty one before he got sick, like Peek Bourne in
twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
That's a I mean it's adjacent like where.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
It's adjacent, but he was he was playing off of myrons.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Yeah, but Bourne was like in a catch and run role,
you know, like I think Diggs is a true like
it's thirty eight, I'm gonna get you nine ten eleves.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
Yeah, but I don't have a problem with that being
part of diggs role. I want to see him at
all three levels. I think he can still make plays
at all three levels. So I'm talking about the guy
that you're gonna have go, you know, run return route
at the sticks. Yeah, and that's what he's doing. He's
gonna do really well and he's gonna pick up yards
after the catch. But that's like his assignment. I want
that can be part of what Diggs does, and he

(01:27:14):
can function in this role at times, but I want
him doing more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
So I agree, I could see that. I think that
the role you know that you're probably talking about they're
probably envisioning for pop Like I think Douglas is going
to be, you know, to peer like number three inside
of Haas that's running the juke series and things like that.
You know, Diggs is probably gonna be running the seams
or whatever. You know, I I could see that. I
think that, you know, when you look at the McDaniels

(01:27:39):
offense and the receivers that typically you know, have played
the X in his offense, Like I think Trey Harris
from Ole Miss is exactly the type of X receiver
that they would target. That is a that he is
a sacrificial act?

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
Was he the one you compared to Lafel? Yeah, well
you can do a little more than that, like sacrificial
get no offense because you know, I like this players
jimir Berg or.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
De mere Bird and Nelson or like extreme examples of
what I'm talking about. But yeah, like that's the role.
But that made some plays though, Yeah, and I think
Trey Harris would make some play, you know, like I
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
That that's but you need to take that guy in
the second round.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
No, I think that that's probably someone you take it
the third round or maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
At one O Sick can Dante Thorton do that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:19):
Maybe in a couple of years that if he develops.
You know, Dante Thornton is a is a one trick
pony without very many other tricks.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
When you say sacrificial, I'm thinking just windsprints.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
I think when I say sacrificial, I mean like a
guy on the outside that again is not Randy Moss,
Like he's not really dictating coverage plan, but you have
to at least respect the fact that he's on the field, right,
Like we're not talking about a complete We're just not
even gonna worry about this guy being out there. But
it's not a high volume role, and it's a role

(01:28:53):
that is a lot of clear outs, you know, taking
coverage out of the way, occupying the post safety in
the middle of the field, like that sort of stuff,
Like because they're trying to hit you know, different areas,
you know, between the numbers at the first and second level,
you know, with tight ends, slot receivers, running backs out
of the backfield. Uh so you have to have somebody
that is there to take the top off. But that's

(01:29:14):
not necessarily a guy that's gonna see a whole lot
of targets. I think Trey Harris is probably the best
in this draft, and you know, the third round range
as somebody that could purely do that. Now if it
was me to your point, a little bit like Jalen
Nole can come in and be like the true slot
right in this off Yeah, Kyle Williams might be able

(01:29:37):
to do that too and play a little bit more
on the outside and kind of play almost like digs
where he has like a little bit of inside outside versatility.
So I just think those guys offer a little bit
more whereas if you're taking Trey Harris or if you're
taking a o manor if you're taking even Dante Thornton later,
like you're taking them to play that role for the

(01:29:57):
rest of their career, right like that that's what they're
gonna I'm going to do.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
Is one most point. At what point you look at
it and just say that's mac Collins and they don't
take an X.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
That's kind of where I'm at right Like, it's like,
would you would you do that when you could have
Kaishan Boody do that, or you could have MATC Collins
do that? Like would you really waste a top one
hundred draft pick on something that Kaishan Boody is is
capable of doing. You know, every once in a while,
when Kaishan Boody gets a match up and he has
a good release, he's going to get a go ball.
I mean it's like football ash yeah, right, like you

(01:30:29):
know that, do you have to use another top one
hundred pick on a guy that can just is just
gonna do that?

Speaker 3 (01:30:34):
I I want them to prioritize the slot. That's what
I I you need that guy that can and and
you're right, it's tigging. I I er, it's it's it's nol.
I even wonder about Kyle Williams in that role a
little bit, just because like he's not a big guy either.
He strikes me as more of a ze than like
a McDaniel's slot. Yeah, yeah, he's just a great are you?
Are you done with Restreppa?

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
Pretty much like if I'm drafting Rostreppa, though I'm drafting
him like to push or replace Pop Douglas, Like he's
like the fourth guy in this mix.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
To me, I do very different things yet not really though,
Like I.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Think that if you fast right, but they're both in
my mind guys that they're gonna have running quick hitters,
like you're gonna have Ristreppa running the juke route. You're
gonna have Rastrepo, you know, finding soft spots over the
middle of the field and zone like that would be
the one thing that I would say he probably is
better at than Pop, Like Pop doesn't have a great
feel for zone right now yet, and like kind of

(01:31:28):
finding those pockets and making himself available and things like
that and settling and all that good stuff, Like Rastreppo
could probably do that a little bit better already. But
Pop is obviously way more dynamic, you know, as a mover,
you know, Rostrepo. To me, I still think is is
a Danny Amandola type, Like I still think that that's
a decent time.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
I don't think he is the burst for that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
But I you're saying, yeah, all right, let's get to
some of these emails. We have a lot of a
lot of emails rolling in. So, uh, this is an
interesting question, and I think it's something that we've talked
about a little bit. But this is Steven from Crown
Point and he did a lot of homework. I don't know,
we can't really translate this to Radio Steven, So I apologize,
but basically his his argument is, you know, Will Campbell

(01:32:12):
obviously has a lot of talk about his arm lane
thirty two and five minutes thirty combine thirty three at
his pro day, and he mentioned all of the he
did the homework of all the pass rushers that Will
Campbell faced and our top one hundred guys that he
faced in twenty twenty five and wrote down all of
their their arm lights and basically made the point that

(01:32:35):
he's been winning against guys with longer arms than him
for yeah, three years in the SEC.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
Those guys are going to the league.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Yeah. So the one guy that I looked at when
I wrote my film review of Will Campbell, which published
today on Patriots dot Com, was a Shamar Stewart who
has over thirty four inch arms.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
And now I'm not the biggest Shamar Stewart fan, so
maybe it's a little bit. You know, I already kind
of have some concerns about Stuart as a player, and
I kind of pumped up Campbell using Stewart as an example.
But Stewart is a has thirty four inch arms and
is a bull rusher, Like that's a power, linear, down
the hill bull rusher with great arm light and great

(01:33:15):
raw measurables, and Will Campbell had no problem whatsoever anchoring
against Jamar Stewart in that game. So I use that
as an example. You know, it's a great point. It's
a great point about Will Campbell's arm length and something
that I feel like we've touched on a little bit.
This is another question about tackles from Larry, and he

(01:33:36):
just wanted us to give like the best case and
worst case scenario for Will Campbell and armand Membo. Now
I always put this caveat in there. The worst case
for any draft prospect is that they stink in their
out of the league, right, That's the worst case. But
let's let's talk about, you know, realistic worst cases. And
I think you know the answer for Will Campbell's obvious

(01:33:56):
he's either a best case, great franchise left tackle or
worst case he's a left guard, starting left guard in
the NFL. With Membo, I think it's either a franchise
left tackle or right tackle.

Speaker 3 (01:34:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
I think that's the one case for the pro Membu
people that I don't hear enough of pro Membu people make,
is that worst case scenario. If we're gonna give Will
Campbell that he's gonna be a good guard no matter what.
Then why would we not give Membu that he's gonna
be a good right tackle no matter what?

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Like that just stands to reason.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Because the Patriots don't need a right tackle, and there
is an argument not to need a left guard immediately.
But I would I would structure that differently, like who
has the quicker path to the worst case And I
think it's Membo. Yeah, that move is so tough, and Campbell, Yeah,
he doesn't have the longest arms, but they've they're not

(01:34:49):
uncharacteristically short, despite what some people think. He's at thirty
three inches, the same as Rashawan Slater. And mostly he
doesn't have to learn anything new. He gets to play
the same position he's played a entire life armand Membu
is to come in and play a position he's never
played in his life. Like that's a major variable that
doesn't get talked about, Like people talk about, oh, well,
you know it's arm length versus position switch, and they

(01:35:13):
just go to arm length because it's physical. But it's like, okay,
but one guy has gotten here despite that shortcoming the
other guy, we have no clue what it's going to
look like yeah, and so there's much more unknown there.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
So the question is is that, yeah, I guess the
pro membuah thing is okay, Morgan Moses is thirty four
years old, right, So if we try him at left
tackle as a rookie and worst case scenario he fails
at left tackle as a rookie, how long are we
really expecting Morgan Moses to keep playing? So is there

(01:35:46):
a chance that in twenty six armand Membu is just
our starting right tackle. Now you're back to the driving
board at left tackle and you have to do that
whole thing all over again. But you would be in
the same spot at right tackle too. If Morgan Moses
this decides, I'm retiring at thirty five years old, like
you also are going to need a right tackle. So

(01:36:06):
in some ways, like again, like we talk about backstops
with the Campbell being left guard, I don't know our
guard in general. I don't understand why nobody just says
the backstop for Membu is right tackle, right.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
It's just it's fair. But again, then the question I
ask is who is who is more likely to get
to the worst case, who has a tougher path to
avoid that worst case.

Speaker 1 (01:36:27):
Yeah, I would probably say, you know, Membo is is
probably more likely to play right tackle long term than
left tackle, just based off of what I see him
on tape. You know, his body type and his obviously
his experience on that side.

Speaker 3 (01:36:42):
So instead of assuming the worst case scenario, yeah, let's
actually look at which player is a better chance of
avoiding the worst case scenario. And I think that's Campbell.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
That's a fair point. I just think it's funny how
like everybody's like asked that question about Membo. It's like,
it's it's right. The answer is right there. It's just
a natural position, which is right tackle. All right.

Speaker 3 (01:37:03):
You could argue his natural positions guards soon he's recruited
as coming out of high school, he's built more like
one physically.

Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
Yeah, but he's so athletic and he's got the lank tackle.
I don't know why you would move him.

Speaker 3 (01:37:14):
Inside, because every tackle should always be moved inside to guard.
We should have no tackles because nobody's good enough at it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
So two questions from fill in North Carolina that are
good ones. One shout out to you. I'll get to
that in a second. But this first question is along
the same lines of what we're just talking about. We
brought this up a couple of shows ago about J. C.
Latham and him trying left tackle as a rookie and
now they get him back to right tackle, and he
just asked, you know, what's the difference between Membo and

(01:37:41):
J C. Latham. I think there are different types of players.
Latham's a pham booth player. Latham's a power player. He's
someone that has got incredible power at the point of
attack and people moving skill. Membu is a much better
athlete than JC Latham is, and that gives you a
little bit more hope about him switching to the left side.
So that's a short answer there.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
The other question that Phil had or just a guy
that he is gravitating towards as a sleeper is Isaac Tesla,
who we got up a couple of shows ago as well.

Speaker 3 (01:38:13):
There's a slot for you and I.

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
I had just watched Tesla semi recently to is it Tesla?
Tesla like Thatla.

Speaker 3 (01:38:22):
That's how they was saying that at the combine, you
don't have to be that ridiculous with.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
Isaac Teslaw sounds funny. It sounds think of like.

Speaker 3 (01:38:31):
Think like it's like t apostrophe s instead of the
imagine feels like that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
What I was impressed by him, uh well, first of all,
the the athletics, athleticism. His relative athletics score as RAS
was off the charts, Like really good athlete. Another one
of these like Day three developmental guys that's got a
ton of physical talent. But what I was really impressed
with with him was was how good he is after
the catch, like on screens and stuff like that, Like

(01:38:57):
he's a true catch and run threat. Not in necessarly elusive,
but he's one of those guys that just h is
you know, got great contact balance.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
Six four twelve, he gets moving bounce off of Yeah,
I like his billy tracked the ball to downfield like
he does a good job with that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
Yeah. I kind of put him in a similar bucket
as Thornton Dante Thorton just because they're both like a
little raw but have great great uh size, speed, weight measurables.

Speaker 3 (01:39:23):
So I hadn't really thought of this. With the slot.
We talked about all these guys to play on the
boundary in college and move inside just slaw heavy heavy,
heavy slot receiver. Is he a guy that can move
outside at the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
Could he be the X potentially, But I like, I
feel like with him, you know, he's such a ball
of clay in terms of his technique, like his releases,
and especially if you're going to play the X and
play a lot of like backside coverage, you're gonna see
a lot of press man, so you have to be
able to release at the line of scrimmage. Like that's
the number one thing. I know. There's not a lot
of evidence. It's not that I don't think he could
do it, more of a projection. Yeah, there's just not

(01:39:55):
a lot of it on tape. Yeah, what's a lot
of what's him of him on tape is screens, seam routes,
you know, underneath crossers, you know, shallows where he's just
catching run with the football. But I thought some of
the screen stuff that he was doing was really impressive.
Like he's going to be a true gadget player right
out of the gate. I have a great comp for him,
But I just feel like that that was interesting. I

(01:40:17):
wasn't expecting that. I was expecting a little more craft
nonetheless explosiveness. He's actually the opposite. He's a rock.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
He's a. He's a boomer He's a boomer bus player.
He's gonna catch that really short stuff and then the
go ball.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Yeah, all right, Curtis in Saint Louis.

Speaker 3 (01:40:30):
Wait, was there's something else in that email that was it?
It was?

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
Yeah, he's said, because you brought up Tesla. Yeah. Uh,
Curtison Saint Louis has two questions, uh that are both
good ones. First one, is there a pick the Patriots
can make it for that would make you pull your
hair out or left feeling underwhelmed? He has his, but
I I'll reveal it after reveal ours.

Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
Sure, Okay, come on, I know it's it's a weird draft.
There's a lot of play. Again, there's a lot of
players that like are fine picks. I can see the path.
I definitely have my preferences at four. I mean, if
we want to go nuts, like if they take like
the second best player to a position, right, So if

(01:41:17):
they took like if they took like Kelvin Banks right
with Will Campbell and in Membo still on the board,
if they took it's tough to even say a receiver
because I Matthew Golden, like I wouldn't necessarily be super
upset if they took him over Ted. I don't know
I'd love either guy at four, but that would make

(01:41:37):
sense if they took like Walter Nolan over over Mason Graham,
right like, I think it would probably have to be
something like that. There aren't that many players in this
draft that is outright hate for them. They're really aren't,
at least at the top.

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
So I feel like I am contractually obligated to say
Ashton Dante, but I don't think I would be like
that pulling my hair out. I probably would be underwhelmed
by them taking Gent because I'd have all the reservations
about taking a running back that high, but he's so
talented that I wouldn't be like, what a horrible pick,
Like it's that that would not make sense, Like that's

(01:42:11):
not what you know I know.

Speaker 3 (01:42:12):
Who would be and no offense to the player is
more about them. Will Johnson, Yeah, I just don't He's
a fine player. There's better players on the board, and
taking a boundary corner that high for the setup they have,
that would make no sense that I couldn't even think
of one because he's not even on my radar. For
the fourth overall pick, Will Johnson would make no sense
to me.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
So the pick that I would probably uh be pulling
my I don't think i'd pull my hair out for anybody.
But the pick that I'd probably feel the most underwhelmed
by would be Jalen Walker.

Speaker 3 (01:42:42):
Honestly, like I just I think I'd be more underwhelmed
by like Mason Graham.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
So his was Mason Graham, Colonel said Mason Graham.

Speaker 4 (01:42:50):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
Maybe it's just the way that I have the like
the my top ten is set up like I have
Mason Graham with the higher grade. Like I just think
Mason Graham is a better player. I don't know. I
just I don't love the idea of Jalen Walker at four.
I don't love the idea of Mason Graham at for either,
And I don't love the idea of gent Like. Those
are the three guys that if they took it for
I would be underwhelmed. Would I be cold? Strange? Like

(01:43:12):
to bring back what I said earlier, I don't think
I would have a meltdown on the air about them
taking any under those players, But I would be.

Speaker 3 (01:43:19):
Underwhelming, you know what? You know what would it would
really be for me? It's not even a player. If
they're so determined to trade down that they trade the
pick for less than what it's worth just so they
can trade down, that that would bother me. Be it
for a couple of reason One, get what it's worth
to new Ish front office, like don't set the don't
set the standard that you can be had in the

(01:43:41):
trade just to move like, don't don't be that team.
And that tells me they don't like anybody on the board.
And whoever they take it nine, they probably don't like
that much. So it's not me saying don't trade down.
Let me be clear, if they get like real value,
do it trade down if you get what the pick's worth.
If they trade down for if they go from like

(01:44:02):
four to nine, four to ten, four to twelve for
like a third round pick, I'd be pretty disappointed.

Speaker 1 (01:44:08):
Yeah, that's a fair point. And I feel like there
is a lot of people out there that are just
trade down at all costs, Like even if it's for
pennies on the dollar. No, just trade down and set
that precedent. And I'm with you, it's the president's bad.

Speaker 3 (01:44:22):
And I also get the better player, agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
I don't think that it's that leveled off of a
top ten. Yeah, that we're really saying that they're all
the same player. I just think that that's oversimplifying it.
I do think there's a difference between these players.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
And I think when you look at it for them specifically,
right Campbell, Membu, Jalen Walker, like how far back are you?

Speaker 2 (01:44:47):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
Yeah, all right, Ted McMillan, Mason Graham, Tyler Warren, it
could work. I think those three it's not a full tier,
it's like a half tier. So Hunter and Carter or
tier one. I would say, Walker, Campbell, and Membu are
Tier two A, and then the rest of those guys
are to B. So like I if you don't have like, yeah,

(01:45:10):
I could be convinced to go to to B, but
you got to convince me to do it. I don't.
I'm not just gonna do it to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
Yeah, No, I'm with you. And it's funny because I
feel like we said that thing about nine and forty yeah,
and then like everybody ragged on us and said, oh,
like you wouldn't do that, You're crazy, And then it
like resurfaced when the Saints with the Derek Carr news
and how everybody wants this King's ransom and I was like,
what happened? I thought that nine for forty was that
was part that was.

Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
Part of that take was like, if the team's moving
up to get a quarterback, make them pay the quarterback tax.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
Yeah, one hundred percent. All right, a couple more emails.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
Here, we'll get back on my future pick.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
We get back to the phone calls. I gotta you
gotta be a little bit greedy. Like I'm not saying
that you want to be like crazy where you get
you know, a bunch of hang ups, you know on
the old phone when you're trying to make the trades.
But yeah, it's gonna be a little bit greedy with
some of these, you know, along those same lines. You know,
just uh, Tom from Jersey was asking if you would

(01:46:05):
roll the dice on Will Campbell you know, do you
because by trading down uh and uh and seeing if
he makes it to you? And he said, you know
he's not a guy that he's like running the card
up for kind of guy, and Uh, I think where
I've come to, you know, in conclusions, still another show

(01:46:26):
this week, And I wrote this on in my thing
on Patriots dot Com, is do I think that He's
a perennial future Hall of Fame all pro you know,
Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Joe Thomas like level prospect. Uh No,
But when I look at him, you know, I see
a lot of Jake Matthews. I've made that comp before.

(01:46:47):
I know other people have made the Bernard Raymond comp
with the Colts and Bernard Raymond the last couple of
years has been like a top Tennish tackle, a left
tackle in the NFL. I think, you know, as much
as uh, you're gonna say, wow, you're saying this as
corny and cliche as some of that stuff is, Like,
there's something about Will Campbell that just like his intangibles
and his character and his demeanor and just his attitude

(01:47:10):
and what he's about dog that just kind of tells
me that, like he's going to break through a ceiling potentially. Yeah,
And I'm I'm for trading down for at the right price,
like we were just talking about in a draft like this,
But I'm not like so gung ho about it that
I'm willing to lose out on Will Campbell for pennies

(01:47:32):
on the dollar. It'd have to be a trade where
we all see the return and we're like, yeah, like
they had.

Speaker 3 (01:47:39):
Again, I go to first round pick, second round pick,
and then depending how far down you're moving like a
future top fifty pick, Yeah, somewhere in there. That that's
where I'm That's where I'm settling. Like I'd obviously start higher,
but that's that's ultimately I think what would get it done.
I lets you moving way down like the twenties, but
how far down can you move? For Campbell, it's tough.

(01:47:59):
The thing that would make me nervous is Miami lurking
at thirteen. I don't think you're necessarily if you're moving
back beyond thirteen, you're not gonna get them. But I
also and the Bears at tend to like those are
teams that it makes a lot of sense for him
to go to that have ammunition to move up. So
you may look at it and say, we can go
back to call it eight with Carolina, right, or I'll

(01:48:21):
just do nine because that's what we're doing this week.
You may look at it and say, okay, there's no
tackle teams between four and nine. We can move back
and get them, and now, uh oh, here come the
Bears up to seven, Here come the Dolphins up to
eight and now you got jumped. That's what you gotta
be worried about. When they did the move back for
Gonzales in twenty three. The thing that they had that

(01:48:42):
we didn't know at the time that it's reported, they
knew two of those teams weren't going to take a corner,
and they knew Washington really liked Emmanuel Forbes for whatever reason.
So they they had it. But there was still the
risk that somebody was gonna move up. Like there's always
that risk. So that's what I worry about with Campbell.
I don't think realistically, were you moving down. There's a

(01:49:03):
ton of tackle teams there, the Bears and Dolphins, and
maybe there's some others too that I'm missing, but like,
there are teams lurking that can move up and jump
you to take the tackle. That would be the bigger
concern for me.

Speaker 1 (01:49:14):
Yeah, So Andrew and DC writes in about Will Campbell too,
and he just he said that he wasn't impressed with
him early on in the process. But me, Evan, you know,
gloating about Will Campbell or whatever I think he said, moting,
I don't know moning anyways about Will Campbell. He watched
the tape again and he said that he sees it

(01:49:35):
more of a technician now and you know, his pass blocking.
But the one thing he points out about Campbell that
he doesn't see is great finishing or raw power to
his game, and said that he thinks that Membo and
Banks have that more regularly. And I actually would agree
with that, Like, I don't think Will Campbell is a
true stack the pancakes kind of guy. He's more of

(01:49:56):
a technician. He's more of a positional run blocker athlete,
you know, and protection. I would just say that, you know,
he he just plays a different style than those two guys.
Those two guys are more you know, road graders. They
got a bigger size and weight to them as well.
They're more blocky, you know, wide bodied type of players
than Will Campbell is. But to me, you know, it's

(01:50:19):
pass blocking is the most important thing. Yeah, Like I
would put pass blocking in as the number one thing
for my you know, if I'm building a team, my
left tackle would it would be a very high level
pass blocker first and foremost. I think protecting the quarterback
and keeping the integrity of the pocket is the most
important thing that tackles do at the NFL level. So
I think he's the best pass protector out of the group,

(01:50:41):
and I think he has plenty of like snarl and.

Speaker 3 (01:50:44):
Toughness to and I was gonna say, let's see what
he looks like when he comes in after having to
hear about his freaking arms from form that, yeah, some
kind of edge he's playing with.

Speaker 1 (01:50:50):
Don I hear what he's saying. Though, In general, when
you watch the tape, amongst these three guys, I would
say Campbell is probably the least in terms, you know,
in terms of raw power, He's probably third on the list,
but it's just a difference of what you know you
want in the player. And again he asks like who
plays like that at the end of the level. And

(01:51:11):
this is this reason is why I keep going back
to the Jake Matthews comp because I don't think Jake
Matthews has ever been known for being like a true
road grader or a true people mover in the run game.
But he's just a very technically sound, very polished left
tackle that that doesn't get beat too often. And I
think that's what Campbell's gonna be. So Andrew, your your

(01:51:33):
eye is not totally off. I just I don't know
if I would prioritize, you know, he says his subject
line is Campbell isn't violent, you know, And I understand
that that's that's fun, right, and you can see that
that's tangible when you watch tape of offensive Linemanaer. Guys,
that finishes is fun to watch, But I don't know
if that's necessarily the most important thing when it's all

(01:51:55):
said and done. All right, let's get back to the
phones and I will wrap up the show here. Sean
is in Vancouver. What's up Sean?

Speaker 7 (01:52:02):
After pass over?

Speaker 1 (01:52:03):
Alex and Evan hopefully, thank you sir, you too.

Speaker 4 (01:52:07):
I have two things.

Speaker 7 (01:52:08):
One question I have is about a wide receiver who
was injured, but I've heard that he's good to go
now as Tory Horton. My concern though, is is this
frame too small? And then the other question I have
is is a hypothetical and what you guys would do yourself,
but what you think the Patriots would do if New

(01:52:30):
Orleans decides to make a trade and offer their second
round pick with the Patriots stay and just turn it
down and draft well Campbell, like assuming.

Speaker 3 (01:52:42):
That Carter and.

Speaker 7 (01:52:47):
Hunter and Hunter are gone, or would they make the
trade and they you know, and after that, would they
just keep picked at nine to thirty eight and forty
stay there or where they move around?

Speaker 5 (01:53:01):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:53:02):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:53:02):
I'll take it off there, thanks j Yeah, I hope
they'd ask for more in that trade. I think if
you end up with thirty eight and forty, especially after
moving back, you're definitely moving up. Should be What's the
first question? Is Tory Horton's brain too small? Frame frame?

Speaker 1 (01:53:15):
I heard brain at first too, but I was like,
he wouldn't say that. I heard that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
Well, that was like did he did he say spring
because he had a sprain ankle. You can have a
size sprain. He plays, he plays bigger than he is,
and he's got some room to put muscle on. I
don't think he can play. I'd have him put muscle on.
I don't think his current frame is where you want
him to play, but I think his frame you can
you can change that and get him to where you

(01:53:38):
need him to be.

Speaker 1 (01:53:39):
Yeah, I'm not totally out on Tory Horren. I don't
hate him as as somebody that they can pick him
the fourth or fifth.

Speaker 3 (01:53:44):
Round on a little bit. There's an AX for you.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
Yeah, I don't know, I didn't like necessarily, I wasn't
wowed by I actually watched him against Travis Hunter. Yeah,
and like most of his yards in that game where
like shallow crossers. Like so he's another on how much
twenty three did you? I think this was in twenty
three fins Travis Hunter. But look at a perfectly capable

(01:54:10):
flyer and then like to your point, is a guy
that was higher on the board, significantly higher or projected
to be higher and then got injured and and you know,
if you're looking to try to to try to do
that thing, you know where you you kind of buy
low on a player in the draft, and Tory Horton
is probably that at wide receiver, Like I think he's
probably the guy to be doing that at wide receiver.

(01:54:33):
And the other thing is quickly about the Saints. Nick
Underhill does a great job covering the Saints. I think
it's NOLA dot Football is his site, and he does
a fantastic job. One of the most plugged in guys
on the Saints. And he's been reporting pretty consistently that
he doesn't see the Saints drafting Shadoor Sanders, like that
they're not that's not They're they're not a Shadoor team.

Speaker 3 (01:54:56):
Well, maybe they want to trade up for Mason Graham.

Speaker 1 (01:54:58):
Evan I I just would pump the brakes because I
trust Nick and I trust is reporting with it. I
would pump the brakes a little bit on the nine
to four jump for Schador.

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
Maybe they want Mason Grimm. I've been saying, I've been
putting in my mock drafts the Saints taking Mason Graham
because it's Kellen Moore trying to recreate Jalen Carter and
Milton Williams with Tyler Bursey and Mason Grim.

Speaker 1 (01:55:20):
A very very worst version of Milton Williams and trying.

Speaker 3 (01:55:26):
Trying.

Speaker 1 (01:55:27):
I think the one thing too, about the quarterback thing.
Just quickly, all these teams, the Browns, the Giants, maybe Vegas,
maybe the Jets, maybe the Saints, maybe the Steelers. It's
like six teams. All of those teams are saying, we'll
just get the quarterback in the second round. Yeah, not
all of them can get the quarterback in the second round, right,

(01:55:49):
Like someone's gonna have like gonna be lose out on
the musical chairs if every single team is targeting Jackson
Dart and Jalen Milroe, and there's five teams that are
going after two players and three teams are gonna be
left without it.

Speaker 3 (01:56:02):
Well, the Raiders will get will happen. So what could
end up happening is we could see a run on
quarterbacks late in the first round. Where do you get
the Browns and these teams trying to trade up from
the early thirties, and that would impact the Patriots. The
question is in what way? On one hand, might make
it more expensive to trade up, because if you're trying

(01:56:23):
to move up to get a tackle and these teams
are trying to move up to get a quarterback, they're
gonna offer more. And if there's a team in their
dead set on taking a tackle and you can't jump them,
that makes it tough. Now, the flip side is if
maybe those teams aren't set, that's gonna push a tackle
or a receiver down to thirty eight. So maybe so

(01:56:44):
it'll be interesting. But if you need a tackle, you
need to tackle, it'll be interesting to see how that
plays out. I think we're gonna see a lot of
trades in the back half of this first round. I
don't think you're gonna see a ton at the top
once we get into the twenties, especially like if the
Steelers twenty one, right, so if the Steelers take a quarterback, yeah,
and the Browns and Giants don't, right, well, now here
cut the Browns and Giants start trying to move up,

(01:57:06):
and that's the range you're talking about the Patriots trying
to trade into for Josh Connerley and maybe Arianta or Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:57:11):
It's a great point because I there's a lot of
reporting out there about this Shador visit to the Giants,
and there's another thing I want to get to in
terms of news, but one second on this just there's
a lot of reporting out there and now it's kind
of getting walked back about this Chador one last private workout.
I guess they have a one last private workout with
the entire top of the quarterback class, like the Giants

(01:57:33):
I'm talking about. So they're going to Chadoor today, They're
going to Jaln Milroe on Friday or maybe it's Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
and they're going to Tyler Schuck at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:57:43):
You see that combine throw that went out there from.

Speaker 1 (01:57:48):
So they're they're doing they were planning on doing this
with all the quarterbacks. So this is not a unique
to Chador thing. But some of the reporting out of
the Shador stuff is that they might actually be looking
at Shador at the top of the second round, not
at the top of the first round. So all these teams,
the Browns, the Giants, uh, those teams that are have

(01:58:09):
been whispered to be connected to Shador Sanders might be
looking at Shador standers at the top of the second round.
But the problem with that is, I don't think Shador
Sanders is getting past the Steelers at twenty one. So
if you don't somehow jump Pittsburgh at twenty one, if
you're the Browns, are you're the Giants, you're not getting

(01:58:29):
Shador in my opinion. So it's just a weird thing.
Like it's a I don't really like Chador is gonna
go higher than thirty three or thirty four. I think
he's not gonna say a round, right, So like at
some point, you know, the slide's gonna stop, right, And
I feel like twenty one with Pittsburgh's to stop. So
that leaves them with you know, Milroe Dart Howard.

Speaker 3 (01:58:48):
You know that Pittsburgh gets nervous and tries to move
up in the middle of the first.

Speaker 1 (01:58:52):
Okay, really quickly. Then we'll take this last call and
we'll we'll end it. This is a question from Matt
in the OC on tja Oh. I guess is in
a contract dispute. I don't guess. You know, this is
what we're here in reports of this. TJ. Watt is
in a contract dispute with Pittsburgh. It seems like maybe
a trade would be in order. Are you in or

(01:59:13):
out on TJ Watt?

Speaker 3 (01:59:14):
I mean, what am I trading? I take the player's
a hell of a player. Yeah, I don't think he's
getting moved, but great player.

Speaker 1 (01:59:20):
Yes, in Yeah, I'd definitely be in. But he's he's
thirty thirty one years old. Like, I'm not trading in
the farm for TJ.

Speaker 3 (01:59:26):
Wait. I guess uh is Palazola right from Pim Pazzolo,
Steve Palasola round pick set a third round pick?

Speaker 1 (01:59:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:59:33):
What could be more poetic than trading the Matthew Judon pick. Now,
they probably asked for sixty nine and I'd give it
to them. Yeah, but if you can get a third
round pick, I might even do like second third pick swap.
I don't know what their third round pick is in Pittsburgh,
but thirty eight for what and whatever their third is?

Speaker 1 (01:59:48):
Can I just why do we have to make it
so complicated like we do all these trades now where
it's like every time we talk about trades, and I'm
not just picking on you, I'm picking on everybody. Every
time we do these trades. It's gotta be like, well,
the Ariots get their second round pick, their fifth round pick,
their seventh round pick twenty twenty nine, and then this
team gets this pick, and.

Speaker 3 (02:00:07):
Because that's how these trades happen.

Speaker 1 (02:00:09):
Like what we just say, like the value is like
a third round pick, that's it. Can we can we
just not get all complicated about it?

Speaker 3 (02:00:17):
Sorry?

Speaker 1 (02:00:17):
Okay, thank you? Uh what I would probably trade a
third round pick for TJ. Watt, Yes, but I wouldn't
give up much more. And I know that sounds crazy,
but like just the value of the player, the age
of the contract, like that's the world now.

Speaker 3 (02:00:30):
So this is so and then this is where that
kind of well, let's make it complicated comes from. If
the Steelers are making that trade, they're trying to get
tools to make sure they can move up if they
need to. And get your door. Yeah, quarterback, right, thirty
eight helps them significantly more than sixty nine does. So
that's where Okay, they're gonna want thirty eight, but you

(02:00:51):
don't want to give up that much. Okay, fun, you
give up thirty eight, but you get that third back.
Now you pair two of those thirds and move back
up in the second. You're back where you need to be. Well,
why wouldn't Pittsburgh just make the trade themselves? Because you're
helping them out and that's part of the deal. You're
making it easier for them.

Speaker 1 (02:01:06):
All right, John is in the high on the highway,
and so cow John, are you on the ten?

Speaker 6 (02:01:11):
Like?

Speaker 1 (02:01:11):
Which highway are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (02:01:12):
With the LA stuff? Give it a break.

Speaker 7 (02:01:15):
I'm on the five on.

Speaker 1 (02:01:16):
The five, Yeah, I was close.

Speaker 8 (02:01:21):
Hey, what's going on, guys?

Speaker 2 (02:01:22):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (02:01:23):
I just got a quick comment about Will Campbell.

Speaker 3 (02:01:26):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (02:01:26):
I think that we very well have won a couple
more games this year, like that Colts game and Miami
without two, we could have easily been picking seven, eight,
nine in this draft, and I think we'd be splamming
our fits against the table hoping Will Campbell fell to
us there. Yes, So I think that I think that
now that we're picking four. All these Pats fans are

(02:01:48):
turned off by Will Campbell. But you know, I think
it's gonna be our first pick anyway, with around the
same talent pool you'd get at seven, eight nine, So
I think, uh yeah, I thought, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:59):
John, great call, great way.

Speaker 3 (02:02:01):
It seems too easy, It seems too good to be true.

Speaker 1 (02:02:03):
Is that part of the hate for Will Campbell? It's
just too obvious I've made, I've made. I've said this
take a million times. I'll say it one more time
before the end of the draft, and I'm sure at
least once. But this is one of those drafts where
there's not a big talent gap. Once you get past
Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter. There's a little bit of
a drop off there in town and it kind of

(02:02:24):
levels off at the end of the day where the
player plays left tackle versus running back, versus tight end.
When you have Hunter Henry on the roster, you are
going to probably see a lot of teams that try
to marry up need with best player available, right, They're
gonna say these guys are our best players available. They're

(02:02:44):
all kind of similarly graded. Where are holes and the
Patriots have a giant void of left tackle. Will Campbell's
the best left tackle on the board. And that's why
at this point, I feel like everybody, whether they are
like us that have been on board pretty much the
whole time on Will Campbell, or they're now coping and
just saying it's gonna be Will Campbell. So let's just
all accept the fact that it's going to be Will Campbell.

(02:03:07):
We're all there. We're all there now because every mock
draft I read now is the Patriots taking Will Campbell.
We have reached the acceptance stage.

Speaker 3 (02:03:15):
Finally, of the week the draft used to be two
weeks earlier. They should like a whole week in here.

Speaker 1 (02:03:21):
We don't need I have an LA related take, but
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All right, we'll be back next week next Wednesday for
our official official Draft preview show because we haven't been
pre viewing the draft for the last six months, so

(02:04:01):
we have to have another show and call it the
Draft Preview Show. But we'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 3 (02:04:09):
Hey, this is Fred. Thanks for tuning into the show.

Speaker 4 (02:04:12):
If you really want to help us, make sure that
you like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple
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show in.

Speaker 3 (02:04:25):
Everything else that we do here what the Patriots. Thanks
a lot,