Patriots Catch-22 5/14: Rookie Minicamp Recap, Roster Reset: Defense, Schedule Release Day

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Barth.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm Lazarre and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it? Joined has
always buy our gait match.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars The math coaches,
whether it be in football, whether it be in basketball,
certainly happens a lot in baseball. Ye refuse to adjust
from their strategy because the spreadsheet tells them this is
what you need to do to win the game. The
spreadsheet was created before the game, not when you're up
twenty points in the third quarter or two touchdowns in

(00:49):
the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. But they continue
to go bombs away when really, all you gotta do
with this big lead is just run out the clock.
And it's maybe not mathematically sexy, but it's how you're
gonna win the game. That's my big problem. Just go
to paint. But no, Kyle Shanahan has to Jimmy Garoffolo
throw the ball deep in the fourth quarter of the
Super Bowl up team scores because that's what the map says.

(01:10):
Strats killed me.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
It always comes back to that. With always, it always
comes back to Kyle Shanahan being minutes away from like
three time Super Bowl champion to zero time Super Bowl champion.
That's where it always comes, sixty minute game. No matter
what we do, it always comes back to that. Evan Lazar,
Alex Barth, Patriots Catch twenty two with you for a

(01:35):
couple of hours here on schedule release day. The schedule
will be released tonight eight o'clock. It is a marquee event,
because obviously with the NFL, what isn't a marquee event.
I'll just say off the top, schedule leaks, we're not
gonna touch on those. I know there's a lot of
things floating around social media right now, but we're just

(01:56):
gonna stick to the facts on this show and on
probably all of our So we're not going to sit
here and guess which leaks are accurate and which leaks
are not accurate and all that good stuff. So as
the schedule comes out tonight and then tomorrow on PU
we'll talk plenty about the schedule, and you'll be on
the Sports Hub, I'm sure, talking about the schedule and

(02:18):
all that good stuff. So you'll get our schedule reacts
in due time. But for today's show, we're going to
focus on Rookie Mini Camp. I know it's been a
minute since we were out at Rookie Mini Camp, but
it's our first show since Rookie Mini Camp, so we'll
discuss that. We'll discuss the defensive side of the ball.
Do our roster reset on defense. Have a few things
I wanted to bring up there, and I know that

(02:41):
people are going to call an email in about the schedule,
so I'm sure we'll give some takes about our theories
about the schedule. But before we really get into it,
support the home team. Join New England's events staff here
at Jiled Stadium. Seasonal position. Seasonal positions available in food
and beverage parking in sec You already visit www dot

(03:02):
thecraftgroup dot com, slash careers and apply today. All right,
Alex Well, I've had a worlwind of a couple of days.
As you can imagine, this has been a whirlwind of
emotions for your boy over here. Monday night, I was
at the Kendrick Lamar concert. I had a great time
with Jess at the Kendrick Lamark concert. He was fantastic.

(03:22):
He hit it out of the park. He played every
song that I wanted him to play. And I was
very excited about it. I mean, from top to bottom,
I just thought, Yeah, that is exactly what all of
us Kendrick fans wanted. I was a little concerned that
he was going to lean too much into the Drake
stuff like he kind of did on the Super Bowl
halftime show, and it was going to be too much

(03:44):
of a you know, an FU tour to Drake. But
it wasn't. He played a lot of his og hits.
It was fantastic. And then as I'm walking out of
the Kendrick Lamark concert, uh, you know, I'm looking at
my phone and Jason Tatum no longer has an achilles,
so you know, it was like the highest the highs
that you could go for to the lowest of lows.

(04:04):
So that was I will admit right now, I am
in seven stages of grief. And so we're gonna talk
about Patriots for the next two hours to totally ignore
all my emotions and feelings about the Celtics right now.
But the one little thing I have to say is
to get off my chest. The only to make this
Patriot related a Brady is the only thing I can

(04:28):
think of. It rises this to this level in our
you know time as sports fans slash reporters. I mean,
there's no other injury in Boston sports history during my
lifetime where the superstar player of the team goes down
with such a major injury that might wipe out an
entire season of his prime. It really feels a lot
like a Brady to me. And there's a lot of

(04:49):
parallels there are.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
You know, they were coming off of a historical season
in the context of the league, and you know, had
this super team built, and it's it's a significant injury
and an acl back then, And it sounds crazy saying
back then, this is what fifteen almost twenty years ago
now was a lot more significant, held a lot more
long term implications than it does now, kind of like

(05:13):
an Achilles does now. And obviously, and it's it's a
good parallel. Even though I was texting a buddy that
night who said I was being dramatic bringing that up,
but I was.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Your buddy in the denial stage of the seven stages,
agreed as.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Much as I tried to tell him that he was
being a little too positivem But no, there are a
ton of similarities. And I've actually been kind of looking
into you know, reading stories from around that time, and look,
we all know what happened. Brady came back. It took
a while, but he wins four more Super Bowls three
year cemented his status as the greatest player in the
history of the sport. But at the time there was

(05:48):
a lot of uncertainty. People didn't know. It was like,
are we gonna blow this core up? Is Brady gonna
play with Moss again? What's gonna happen here? Matt Castle
leads him to eleven wins. Now it's well, you know,
we don't.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Know who Brady's at, what happens and just will he
ever be the same player again?

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Or is this the beginning of the end? And is
that run that we got with him? Is that going
to be it? And it was, which should have been
a long career cut short. Obviously that's not what happened,
But these were some of the questions at the time,
and even Brady himself going back and reading some of
the quotes from him, not immediately after, but later on,
talking about how that changed the way he viewed football

(06:27):
and his interaction with football and a lot of the
stuff that he became very well known for. The TV
twelve method, pliability, avocado ice cream, not eating tomatoes right,
all of that. The genesis of a lot of that
is that injury in two thousand and eight.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, you're human, right for the first time, and it's
not it's not exactly apples to apples because Brady won
three and Jason Tatum's only won one. But if you
go back to that moment, right, if you go back
to that moment, it's very similar, very similar stages of
their careers. You know, was Brady's eighth year as the
Patriots starter, Tatum's eighth year in the NBA right now,

(07:06):
you know, both in the primes of their careers. Both
arguably one of the best players in the sport, if
not the best player in the sport in Brady's case.
So it's it's very similar.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
So I think if you're Jason Tatum, you go back
and you look at some of the ways Tom Brady
approached that or even maybe reach out to him. And again,
Brady talked about how it changed the way he approached
the game, and it'll be interesting to see how Tatum
attacks it and if he brings that similar mentality.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's the more I looked into it, because
I did want to bring it to Patriot Focus. This
is a Patriots podcast. The more I looked into it,
even though Brady was a little bit older, and you know,
there's different age brackets in terms of primes when they're
an NFL quarterback versus a superstar player in the NBA.
You know, Brady was thirty thirty one when he tore

(07:52):
his ACL. Jason Tatum's only twenty seven. But you know,
Jason Tatum came into the league at eighteen, nineteen years old,
and Brady was older. So the amount of time that
they had spent in the league at that point was
exactly the same.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
You know, Yeah, taking out two.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Thousand for Brady, so eight years is the starter eight
year career so far for Jason Tatum. You know, we thought,
I are just remembering my you know, kind of jogging
my memory of eight It was all about righting the
wrong of losing Super Bowl forty nine. Like that's really
what the focus was was, Okay, you went eighteen and oh,

(08:28):
you went sixteen to oh in the regular season, Like
no one wanted them really to try to do that again.
They just wanted to win it right again and would
just focus on winning the Super Bowl, and they had
by far were the betting favorites, and this was I
think the difference is to me that that makes this
one almost in some ways, you know, tougher is that

(08:50):
it kind of feels like two seasons are now impacted
by this Tatum thing because even though they were gonna
they were going down three to one no matter what.
Ye they were gonna lose Game four to the Knicks,
and they're gonna go down three one, no matter or what.
But crazier things have happened than the favorite with two
home games coming back from a three to one deficit
to win the series. So this season is now basically

(09:10):
over all intents and purposes, and then next season might
basically be over too because he might not play at
all in twenty twenty six. Whereas you know with Brady,
it was like, all right, the eight seasons a watch,
but Week one two thousand and nine, we know Brady's
gonna be out, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
And well, and then there's again that so next year
we'll see. Look, they still Jaylen Brown. I don't think
they're moving on from Jaylen Brown. I don't think they're
moving on from Derek White. So in the East is
it's terrible. It's really bad teams, right, Yeah, Like think
about how bad they'd have to be to not even

(09:46):
be in the playing in this conference. So they'll still
be decent, But like, what does the future look like
after that? This the roster's going to turn over next
time we see Jason Tatum on the floor, Yeah, it's
gonna be I would say more than fifty percent of
the roster is gonna be different. Who knows what the
coaching staff will look like all of that. So with Brady,
it was kind of the same thing where they hit
that breaking point and what happened was they used that

(10:12):
I don't know that that was solely the opportunity. Some
of it was just the time. And look, they obviously
get back to the super Bowl in twenty eleven, so
it was a little more of a drawn aut process
as it is in football compared to basketball. That's kind
of the demarcation of Brady being the young kid who
was on the rise, who was taking this roster of
veterans and maximizing things too. It really being the Tom

(10:34):
Brady Show, and he was the veteran and he was
the guy and everybody's looking up to him. This is
kind of the same opportunity for Tatum. It was Tatum's team,
Don't get me wrong, it was Tatum's team, but you
still had Al Horford and Drew Holiday as those veteran leaders,
and he was still I don't want to say like
up and coming. We knew who he was, but he
was considered like one of the younger superstars in the game.

(10:55):
He's coming back as like the veteran get on my back.
Here we go. It's you know, old head Jason Tatum
leading this group of young, younger players. I think that's
what it's gonna be when it comes back, which it
was for Brady. Right the twenty ten, twenty eleven drafts,
you get two thousand and nine, you get Edelman, Gronk, Slater, mccordy,

(11:15):
like that whole thing, the other tight end. That's what
I think the Celtics need to do here in the
next two years is have that kind of transformation like
the Patriots did in the early twenty tens.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
So the last thing I'll say about this, because I
know people are probably some people hate when we talk
about other sports on this show, so I'll just wrap
it up with this today is where we went from
denial last night was depression.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Finally to acceptance.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Last night was depression.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
What's your hobby? By the way, like flat.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
I told Alex that I was going to pick up
a new hobby because I just I still think anymore
at flat out depression last night anger slash depression. Today
is is acceptance slash? What's the word?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Just? Moving? Moving forward?

Speaker 3 (11:57):
No?

Speaker 1 (11:57):
But do we do now?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Just like ridiculous overconfidence that he's gonna come back sooner
than I think you're gonna be over.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Confident about anything. It should be the Celtics still winning
the season.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
No, I'm not over confident. I'm not any sort of confidence.
I think there's a better chance maybe, but not.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
I think there's a better chance the Celtics win this
series than there is of Tatum coming back, like to
play a meaningful game six season.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
So I this is why I disagree with you a
little bit. And this is totally cope, totally green team
or cope. But the green teamer take right now, I'll
say put it to you that way. He had the
surgery right away. Yeah, And a big reason why he
had the surgery right away is because it's like the quickest.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Path it's supposed to help recovery yet back.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Now, everybody says you miss a calendar year, but there
are guys that have come back quicker. He is twenty seven,
he's in peak physical condition. He's never been hurt before.
There's been it's been. There's a clean rupture and a
clean surgery from everything that we've heard. So it's not
totally out of the realm of possibility that by like

(13:01):
March or April of next year, he could try to
ramp it up to be make it for the playoffs.
And I'm not saying that they should do that, right,
I'm not saying that that's smart. I'm just saying that
it's not completely crazy to say that there's a chance
that let's say they are the Bridge Celtics, and let's

(13:21):
say they are pacing to win fifty games, which in
this Eastern Conference might be like the three or four
seed in the East. And then you see it, look
at it, and you say, well, he's good. You know,
he's ready to come back. You know, in late March
early April, we have ten more regular season games to
get him into some game shape. It's not crazy to

(13:45):
think that he could play at the end of next
year because of his age and because of the history
in terms of his you know, work ethic and all
that good stuff. That's total copium. That is an absolute
green teamer take. But I that's out there this morning
a little bit amongst us, you know, diehard Celtics fans
that it's not totally outlandish to think that he could maybe.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
If they're not a true contender, just let him rest,
maybe a couple games at the end of the year,
to get his feet back.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
No, I don't need him to play, and I think
I would probably prefer them to just treat next year
as a reset season.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
We'll see in October. What would it be, October twenty
twenty six, No, October twenty twenty seven, No, twenty six,
twenty six. Next year is the twenty five six, Yeah,
I'll see October twenty six. That's where I Matt.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I mean like I hear that. But at the
same time, if they're again, if they're the Isaiah Thomas
Bridgie Celtics and they're a fifty win team without him,
and they really feel like they could get hot at
the right time, I'm not rolling it out, That's all
I'm saying. I can't roll it out for my own psyche.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
I can't have this argument again next year, Ricky Minticamp,
Let's talk Patriots.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Sorry, thank you, I appreciate I had to you know,
I had the vent a little bit.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
I needed a little.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Therapy there, right to vent for a second about what
just happened to my team, Rookie Mini Camp. We were
out there. God, what was it Friday? About? All these
in a blaze at this point Friday watching Rookie Mini Caamp.
I think the biggest takeaway, And again we always preface

(15:21):
these things and as we should. Nobody is putting anybody
in the Hall of Fame, and nobody is putting anybody
in the bust category because of one day of Rookie
Mini Caamp practice. Like, none of these takeaways, none of
these opinions are are should be, or are anything crazy
in terms of expectations for any of these guys. But

(15:42):
I think everybody's biggest takeaway, just listening around to what
other people who were there were saying, was just more
about the coaching staff and about Mike Rabel and just
watching Mike Rabel conduct a practice and how hands on
he is as a coach, how active he is throughout
the practice, is the pace of practice I thought was
noticeably quicker, maybe even more noticeably than the end of Belichick,

(16:07):
I would say, and that's not what veterans. So we'll
see what happens when, you know, the experienced guys get
in there, maybe it drags a little bit more. But
it felt fast paced, it felt energetic, it felt loud,
like I just like felt like I heard a lot
of things now we were inside, So maybe that was
a fact that, but it just felt like it not
just Rabel, you know, all the coaches. It felt like

(16:29):
they really were setting a tone and an energy. And
then of course, you know, Mike Rabel is just every
single position is getting coached by Mike Rable, Like there's
not one one spot, from special teams drills, to receivers,
to tight ends to offensive line, defensive line, which is
what you would expect, you know, defensive line, and linebacker.

(16:50):
You know, he's playing like scout team linebacker. You know,
at one point in this practice, he it was impressive
to watch, Like I look at that and come away
personally exhausted from watching how adiv is and like asking myself,
is it truly realistic to do that for six straight months?
Like once training camp comes around, but he does it

(17:12):
like he has that kind of energy.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah. No, I think that's their plant. Like, I think
that's the way he's gonna do this is he's going
to be involved in every little bit of it. And
we heard from Milton Williams yesterday kind of a story
about how they were running it sound like they were
running gassers and Williams knew he was going to get
to line in time and he kind of pulled up
and Rabel called him out for it. It's the highest
paid free agent in you know, April or May on

(17:36):
one rep and Rabel stepped in and told him to
run it like he's watching everything. He's doing everything. He's
involved in everything. True CEO head coach. And we talked
about the salt the last years. That's not easy to do. No,
we kind of saw a little taste of it on Friday.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
He's going up to land lairs and correcting around. He's
going up to CJ. Dupree and making a correction. It
was and it was expected from my vantage point that
he'd be doing that kind of stuff with the offensive
and defensive line, like that's where his specialty is. Even
special teams and he mentioned it in his press conference,

(18:11):
like he played a ton of special teams throughout his
NFL career, especially early in Pittsburgh, So I had all
the expectations in the world that those were going to
be areas of expertise for him. But even going out
and like coaching you know, route like top of the
route technique and like being able to break that kind
of stuff down that that was impressive. You know, that

(18:32):
tells you a guy that knows every single detail of
a football team.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
And I think some of this is your And I
don't know if he was doing that in Tennessee or not,
but I think you're seeing the value of his I
don't know, what, do we want to call it a
gap year? Yeah, you know, being an exchange student in
Cleveland last year on the offensive side of the ball
and getting to work right now. He said he worked
mostly with the offensive line, but did some with tight ends.
Where this is relevant, I think you're kind of seeing
that where he has this more well rounded background than

(18:59):
maybe he had when he started coaching.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
So the other takeaway that I had on the coaching front,
I had known this because we had done some some
videos and stuff like that with him. But Josh McDaniel's
probably lost like one hundred pounds.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, he looks good.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, like we got felt McDaniel's like, this looks like
two thousand and five six Josh McDaniels. He looks like
another guy that he took the full year off. You know,
we're able didn't, but he took the full year off.
And now it feels like maybe revitalized, you were, rejuvenated,
you know, whatever word you want to use to describe it.
But we haven't got to see him up close with

(19:36):
Drake May yet that will be cool. But we saw
him coaching Kyle Williams up a little bit, you know,
just a vibrant Josh, rejuvenated Josh McDaniels, which I found interesting.
It looks like a like a totally different person, Like
he cut his weight in half and and that's a
I don't know if that means anything at all. It

(19:57):
just was an observation that he he looked like a
more energetic, spelt guy out there. Let's get to the players.
Will Campbell obviously started starting in order off the top
here at left tackle. There's no there's no Peter Skeronsky
going on here. We're not you know, cross training or

(20:17):
unsure or whatever the case may be. I know we
posted some pictures yesterday from UH practice with the veterans
with Drake May, and he's on Drake May's blindside at
left tackle right away. So that was the first takeaway
was just there's no question internally, I don't think about
is he a tackle? Is he a guard? At least
early on, He's going to be a tackle and there's

(20:38):
not going to be any debate about that. The other
thing that I just again, it's against blocking pads with
no pads on in a day one a rookie minicamp.
But you can see the power and you can you
can see the hands and the grip strength that we
talked a ton about during the draft process and the
way you know, he explodes out of his ants and

(21:00):
with a really good leverage and really good power from
the ground up and his hands, you know, his finishing ability.
You you could see that even just watching him, you know,
block against against the pads and things like that. You know,
there's a pop that he makes when he makes contact
with that pad. So I we you know, still don't

(21:22):
know about pass protection that that's gonna be the number
one thing with him. The length stuff and all that
stuff is going to impact him a lot more in
pass protection than it is in run blocking. But just
watching him move and watching him go through drills and
from a run blocking perspective, it was it was exactly
what I expected to see and it checked the box
for me one hundred percent that I wanted to see

(21:43):
out of a non padded thing. Like I compared it
when we were watching during practice. This is a pro day,
right like that. Yeah, this is what it looks like
for offensive lineman out of Pro day. This is what
you're gonna see. They're gonna be hitting blocking pads. They're
going to be executing different blocks on the line of scrimmage,
most likely you know, reach blocks, combos, doubles, you know

(22:04):
those types of things like that's what you're gonna ask
him to do in this kind of setting. And you
can easily see the athleticism, the exposedness, the power that
he has in his frame. How all that is going
to translate nicely to run blocking. Well, we'll see about
the pass pro but from the run blocking perspective, it
was cool to see to hear that that thud, to
hear it like hear how powerful and strong he is

(22:26):
into the blocking pads was. I watched it for like
a good twenty minutes. I was really impressed and into it.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah. And another thing like going through they actually weren't
using whistles. The coaches were just yelling whistle at the
end of each rep. But you know sometimes guy would
go through rep of your whistle and the guy would
just kind of stop. With Will Campbell, you'd hear whistle, whistle, whistle,
like just finishing every single rep, which obviously we've seen
him do on tape. There was this weird narrative out

(22:56):
there that he wasn't like physical and that he wasn't
that much of a bully leading up to the draft.
I don't quite know about that one. Yeah, no, I
you saw a little bit of that.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
You saw everything you wanted to see. And the last
thing I would say about Will Campbell just talking to
some of his coaches down at LSU for the future
that I wrote about him on the website, the one
thing that a lot of them mentioned was he's a
true tone setter of the offensive line. And again, no
one's fitting him for Red Jackets. There's a long way

(23:27):
to go. There's still a lot of question marks about
some of the things with his game. If he practices
that hard in May at a rookie Mini caamp, that's
when you talk about the culture stuff like, that's when
you talk about setting tones and being that kind of
guy and leading by example and all that kind of stuff.

(23:48):
He was blocking like it was game speed in day
one of rookie Minicamp in the middle of May. So
if you want to re establish a culture and re
establish a just a baseline work ethic in an offensive
line room, that's what that's what it needs to be. Like,

(24:09):
that's what your best player in the fourth overall pick
in the draft needs to do. He needs to practice
like that, right, And that was probably out of all
this other stuff we're talking about with Campbell, I would
say the effort was probably the number one thing to
take away from this kind of setting was just you
could see that it was tangible that, Okay, this guy

(24:29):
our fourth overall pick. If I'm Jack Conley right like
I'm an undrafted rookie trying to make the roster, and
the fourth overall pick is balking through the whistle and
taking every rep like a game rep in Rookie Mini Caamp, well,
I better up my game too. I better get to
that level as well. And you hope that that trickles

(24:51):
in even with veterans as we go here and the
guys that have been here, so that that was good
to see as well. From Will Campbell. Again, you know,
looks part, fills out the suit, whatever cliche you want
to use. We did not see Travon Henderson. He was
there for the rest of many camp. It looks right like,
but he just wasn't there for the day that it

(25:11):
was open to the media. So I'll skip Travon Henderson.
There's no more speculation needed about why he wasn't there.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
He was there on one of the other days they
put out pictures. Yeah, he was there at some point.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
I believe it was Saturday that they put out the
picture that he was there, and then he was there
yesterday or whatever. Those pictures were taken from Ota Is
taking handoffs from Jake May. So he's here, he's not.
There's no more, uh, you know, if there ever was
any concern about him not participating, he's participating now. So
Kyle Williams, I thought, again, moved well and just kind

(25:45):
of looked the part as well. So I'm working a
lot on the outside, which I think is tells you
a little bit about there are plans for him, at
least in the short term in terms of where he's
going to train and where he's going to fit in
right away. But there was there was a certain speed
to his game and quickness to his game that I liked.
They did a open field leveraging drill. They obviously aren't tackling.

(26:07):
There's no pads, so they're not tackling anybody, but they're
just angling, you know, to tackle people. And in a
phone booth he made a guy look silly like you
got dough for him and just completely missed and ended
up falling, basically dropping the guy to the ground. Right,
So you see some of the quickness in a phone booth.
You certainly see some of the separation ability and in

(26:28):
the team drills that we did get a look at.
So again, same thing, like I said with Bill Campbell,
just kind of a box checked for Kyle Williams. I
thought that he looked as a speed receiver should in
this kind of setting, I should come away and pressed
with well his speed, and I was pretty impressed with
the speed.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I'd agree with that it's it was tough for
a lot of the pass catching players because the quarterbacks
and a ton of help. But yeah, you're right, he
moved well and saw a lot of them on the outside,
which is notable.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
All right, So those were the draft picks.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Jared Wilson I thought, didn't do a ton in this practice.
You know, they had him snapping, he's playing center, like
those are the types of things you're looking for. But
you know, I didn't necessarily see him. You know, in
this kind of setting, the center is not going to
be super active in drills, so I wouldn't necessarily have
a big take about him. The two defensive linemen, Joshua
Farmer and Brandon Swinson. The biggest thing I just saw

(27:22):
with those two guys is that you know, they their
physical traits looked how I was hoping they would look.
You know, they they you know, Farmer is maybe a
little shorter than I was expecting just in person, but
the long arms were obvious, Like you could see that
he's got long arms and sort of a I would say,
like almost like a key on white build to him,

(27:43):
Like he's you can see sort of like a raw
tools the athletic guy out of his build. You know,
Swinson was that an athletic, you know, outside pass rusher,
you know, edge rusher looked to him, but that that
was farmer kind of looked a little bit like ke
On White to me. And interesting that practice is the
way the cut.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I think he's a little bit bigger. Yeah, but yeah,
I could see that.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I'm not saying that in terms of their playing style necessarily,
there's a ton of Simie right physically. Let's get to
the undrafted free agents.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
I don't I've won take on one more of their
draft pars. Yeah, Marcus Bryant, the tackle from Missouri, is
like insanely huge. Yea, Like he's he he was dwarfing everybody.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Like I saw him next to Will Campbell and I thought, like,
Will Campbell looked small, and then I saw them next
to everybody else and I was like, no, Will campbells
still the second biggest guy out here. Marcus Bryant is
massive and with his athleticism, man, if they can get
him going, if they can fix some of that technique stuff,
I don't know. Like again, I think he might almost
be too big, just in terms of the height and

(28:51):
leverage and stuff. But you just talk about raw traits
and a guy that has some tools you want to
work with. Yeah, he's really big, he moves well like that.
I can't believe he fell as far as he did.
I don't think he was gonna be like a top
to hundred pick or anything, or a top one fifty pick,
I should say. But like, there's some fun traits there,

(29:11):
there really are.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
He's he's a little high cut. I think that was
one thing that people had against him was long legs,
short torso, high cut frame, which typically tends to lead
to some issues with leveraging or pad level and your blocking.
When you're built like that, especially at tackle like it's
harder to get underneath guys, it's harder to get hands

(29:33):
on speed because you don't have the bend in that
flexibility in your lower halft to do that. There's good
tackles that have gotten away with it being high cut
like that and have had really good NFL careers, So
I'm not saying it's impossible. But he's an athletic guy,
there's no doubt about that. And he's a big dude,
Like yeah, yeah, and that's all we're looking for this
time of year in terms of the undrafted rookies. I

(29:56):
had some fun during practice with some of these guys.
You will one guy in in particular, Uh, and it's
not who you think. Some of it was kind of
tongue in cheek because like.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
It stuff was legit.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
I I like the cut of the of his jib,
as Paul Parrella likes to say, I was impressed, a
more impressed than I thought I was going to be
about Land Larison and just uh the burst that he has,
Like he's not I still don't think that he's going
to have great long speed right, Like, he's not a
top end home run hitter type of running back. But
for the role that I think he projects best into,

(30:33):
which is that James White, Shane Ververen, Kevin Falk, third
down running back type of role. He's got good initial quickness,
you know, out of routes and burst into the flats
and to the top of the route and things like that.
And he's got a little bit of juice at the
top of the route, like a little bit of wiggle
there to his game. So he's wearing thirty four. He

(30:57):
kind of looks like rexburg Head. He's playing like rex Burke.
I think that comparison still exists in my mind, at
least for land Larrison, but in general, that's where what
my takeaway with him was was like, you know that
movement skill that those traits like that lends that themselves
to that kind of role in the in this offense,
Like he at least has that baseline of Okay, he

(31:19):
moves the way that you need to move to be
able to succeed in that role.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's there's quickness to it. There's real quickness
and subtleness to his game. So that was impressive. I'm
surprised you weren't more impressed with Chisholm just gets open,
the subtleness of his ro out running, just really smart player,
The way he sees the field, create separation, things like that.
I mean, these are all things you see on tape.
You see it in person. You can see some more

(31:42):
of than nuance in the fort work and things like that. CJ.
DePree another guy that you know. Seeing him in person,
you see the list in size right, six five, two
fifty whatever, you see him in person, it's like, okay,
like he looks like a tackle. Yeah, he's built like
Nate Soulder kind Yeah, he's you know, forty pounds later,
but built like Nate Solder, moves better than I thought.

(32:04):
Guy that's going one hundred percent every rep. I think
it's the guys we've talked about, the one guy I
wonder And maybe this is just because they haven't really
done install They were using brock Lampy more as a
tight end than a traditional fullback. Maybe that's because they're
going through some very fine and he did do some
traditional fullback stuff. Maybe it's because that's not all installed
yet or whatever, But that was the one thing I
noticed that I was like, if if he's just gonna

(32:25):
compete mainly as a tight end, I don't think he's gonna.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Make the team. So there are there was some stuff
on his tape at Northern Illinois, you know, talking about
brock Lampy. Yeah, wing blocking, not as much in line
like hand in the dirt sixth offensive lineman type stuff,
more like h BAC move tight end.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Angles that he was taking that weren't true full back
backfield rep. So he has that in his back.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, But I just think if that's what you want,
jaheen Beale's better. We talked about this last week. If
you want.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Differently, so that like that's the only pushback I would
have on that because Lampy's what like six two fifty
two sixty, Like he's built like a mac truck, whereas
Bell is like an athletic tight end.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
But if you want if you want Kyle Yuschek, right, yeah,
it's it's Jean Bell. If you want the guy that's
going to be more tight end than fullback, would beyond
that hybrid, it's going to be Gene Bell. If you
want Yakub Johnson, James Devlin, that kind of guy, it's
Brock Lampy. You wanted the hybrid, you would have drafted
rob youts.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Well, the hybrid is sort of what I'm thinking is
maybe the role that they have in mind. And when
you watch Ravens tape or Chargers tape with their guys
that are more are bigger than Lampy, a lot of Yeah,
those guys are like converted defensive linemen that are now
playing as blockers for those two teams for the Harbas.
But when you watch them, they do take a lot

(33:48):
of reps as in that wing role, right, which is
like off the line tight end next to the Why
that's a little bit further out and there's a little
back on the line of scrimmage, and that role is
you know, there's a lot of different things you can
do within that role because of the alignment. You can
have him get out and block on the perimeter and
block corners and you know, slot corners and outside corners

(34:11):
on tosses or outside zone you can sift them, you know,
block across the formation, coming back to across the grain,
and like a split zone or a duo scheme, you
can have him insert up to the second level as
well in duo. So like there's a bunch of different
things that you can do from that position as well
as you know, having those guys to block as like

(34:33):
a full back if you want it, to move him
into that kind of role. So maybe that's more of
the role that this is evolving to under McDaniels. It's
definitely not so much with the chargers, but with the Ravens,
like it's more of like a wing t you know,
option offense role. So if they are thinking of putting
that kind of stuff in with Drake, may not to

(34:53):
run him like Lamar Jackson, but like just a little
bit of it and have a touch of it then
maybe that that's part of what their thought process is.
But I thought Lampy's blocking tape from the various alignments
is definitely better than gams.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Well, so that's what I go back to. If you're
gonna have that guy spend any sort of amount of
time meeting a linebacker in the A gap, yeah, it
has to be Broccolin. Yeah, and I think that I
don't think can do that. And they can pay base
I think right. And they can both make the team too,
It's not necessarily one or the other. Now that means
probably five wide receivers instead of six, or you're keeping

(35:30):
Marcus Bryant as your third tackle so you don't have
to keep low In Jacobs as direct positional backups. Maybe
they're keeping one less cornering come from anywhere, one less
running back. But they can both make the team. It's
just gonna come down to those those at large spots.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, yeah, no, I I I still won't. I will
believe that lead with the full back in the backfield
going up to the linebacker in the A gap is
going to be a in Josh McDaniel's offense until it
isn't like that is a day one Josh McDaniel staple.
It was in Vegas, it was with the Patriots, Like,

(36:05):
I just can't imagine that that's not gonna be anywhere
in the playbook, Like they're just gonna completely walk away
from that kind of stuff. So I have to imagine
that that's gonna be there. Now, could it be there
on goal line and short yardage? And you're using a
sixth offensive lineman as an eligible player because it's a
situational thing only like sure, I don't know if it's
gonna be in there first and ten from the twenty five, Like,

(36:29):
I don't know if that's like gonna be a base
offense type of thing for them or not, But I
it's gonna be in the playbook, like it's gonna be
in their installations and things like that. So it'd be
interesting to see where they go with that. Jack Conley,
there's another guy there, And I was encouraged by what
I saw at Boston College out of Jack Conley, what

(36:50):
I heard at his pro day about his versatility and
about some of the different things that he could do
from you know, playing guard, tackle, jumbo tight end, like
all across.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
UH.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
The offensive line certainly has size. You know certainly looks
the part like some of these other guys like we're
talking about. So, I mean I've seen let's not get
carried away with Jack Conley, Like no one's really giving
him a shot right now at left guard, I don't think.
I think we're a ways, a long ways away from
him being in a conversation of actually seeing the field

(37:22):
making the roster. But another one of those guys that
I thought just kind of stood out. I mean, he's
a big dude. Well he's bigger than Will Camp.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
We from a we just talked about tracking the roster spots,
and that's a guy that can maybe play four spots
yeah for you as a backup. So that's relevant. Just
along those lines, I was talking about this with somebody yesterday.
That left guard spot is probably the most wide open
right of any on the roster starting left guard, and
everybody's kind of thrown out three lead contenders. And we'll

(37:52):
get a better idea of what this looks like it,
you know, over the next couple of weeks ago. DA's
a mini camp but lighton Robinson City, so cold strange. Yeah,
what are the odds that the week one starting left
guard is not in that group of three because I
think it's bigger than people think. And that could be
Wes Switz, or that could be Taking Wilson, that can
be Jack Conley, could be this the other UDFA they

(38:14):
signed from Arkansas State who was with them on a
tryout basis, Like I don't know, I put it like
twenty five thirty percent.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
That high. Yeah, Jared Wilson definitely pushes it into a
possibility range, right, you know, he could he could definitely
come out in training camp and they could look at
it and say he's just too good to keep him
off the field, Like we need to find a spot
for him. Maybe it's out, like we talked about this
a little bit last week. Maybe it's that left guard

(38:43):
to start, so that you're taking the center of responsibilities
off of him as a rookie and make it easier.
I still think it's a long way or a long
way away from talking about a Jack Conley or any
UDFA pushing to start Schweitzer is interesting.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Well, just remember when I told you last year that
Michael Jordan had a chance started left guard. He told
me was gonna make the team.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Okay, but that shouldn't have been the case.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
No, he was the best left guard last year at
this point.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Which is an indictment on the roster.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's an indictment on the roster. But they go it's
the same guys.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
They're better now than they were then.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
It's the same guys they did not need to start.
I don't think he can win the starting jobs.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I think West Wwhitz are no offense, no no disrespect.
Men like West Sweitzer. To me, is Michael Jordan right
like that. He's a veteran guy that's kicked around the league,
that has some starts under his belt. But that's what
he in terms of the talent level of the player,
he's a He's a Michael Jordan.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
But it's the same guys. Well, I guess City so
has hurt. City would have started last.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Year because like Landon Robinson, is Cole Strange wasn't wasn't
there at that point last year. So it's not the
same guys. If they're in a position where they're starting
the Michael Jordan equivalent week one and left guard, things
went wrong fair enough, things went like multiple people would
I still think if.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Jared Wilson starting Week one, it's a center. I think
they want to keep Met center Mike Rabel kind of
said that last week.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
That's fair. That's fair. I just at some point it
get you get into the season and it comes about
winning five.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
I look, I think it's gonna be city. So I
know there was a picture going around yesterday from whatever
practice that was West Schweitzer. I think this time of year,
I would expect a lot of that when Tuesday we're
out there for the first time. Wednesday, Yeah, whatever it is,
I would expect to see a lot of that over
the first OTA practice or too, just because it's it's veterans.

(40:35):
Veterans generally get the nod this time of year. It's
like how Bailey's AFFI was repping over Drake May last
year when we started the spring, right, I would expect
to see quite a bit of that in the rookies.
By the time we get to Mini camp, I think
we'll see the rookies more involved.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
All right, So that's rooky Minichamp and I just love
and I see it in the chat. I'm sure we
got got some emails about it. I just love how
ten minutes of anything that's not Patriots sets all of you.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
We made it a little bit. We tried to make
it Patriots, Ralph.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
It's also may Okay, yeah, and uh and I'm sorry,
but I'm in a bad I'm in a bad place
right now. Okay, I'm in a bad place. It's a
dark time right now.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
What's your new hobby gonna be?

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I'll let you know. I'm still haven't.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Decided or any of my pitch is being considered.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
No, definitely not. You keep trying to pitch golf to me,
and I'm not going to golf, and he should golf.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
It's a golf is going to great escapism hobby.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Golf is like similar to how like when I hear golf,
it's similar to like remember when like CrossFit first became
really popular.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's so different and everybody just.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Like cross cross like golf is. It's it's like golf.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Has been around since like centuries out. I'm glad i'mrect
me more of a bird watching guy.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
I'm glad you enjoy it it works for you. Don't
try to make me golf. I don't want a golf.
I'm not interested in it. Bad take that's it. I've
done it. I've done it a couple of times in
my life, and I don't enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Right. So my one other pitch to Evan was he
should get into video games because if he gets into
video games, we could play CFB and Madden on Twitch. Yeah,
and if you're in the chat, would you want to
watch me and Evan talk Patriots when we played Madden
some sort of football video game. So because maybe we
can make that a thing.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
I'll say this Madden is a possibility because I've seen
some of the innovations of Madden, and like I do
feel like you when you know as much about football
like we do, like you can kind of coach the
team and like drop plays and like like you can
see shells a defense.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
So they really unlocked that last year. You can now
do like so before it was like if you were
in cover two lined up in cover two. They put
in a mechanic now where you can set a covered shell,
like you can open and cover one and then go
to cover two or whatever. You can do like custom
route stems now on offense. So the College one is
really where they unlocked that. So like just looking at

(43:06):
it and then you can play two K and you
can like sit playing with Jase table.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
So like, no, I can't do that.

Speaker 5 (43:11):
All right, I want to see you play sixty four
blitz where you can't do any of you can't.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
He's not gonna do blitz. You're not an NFL blitz guy.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
I was.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
I was as a kid.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah you're not now I know that.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
No. Like I mean, they literally don't call passing appearance.
It's like you can just tackle the gain.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
I'll still pitch. I'm pitching. I'm pitching mad in CFP,
and then in CFB you can start learning some of
the players for the draft.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
It's it's an option. And like I said, I think
the main reason is it's like I watch all this
film like it'd be kind of cool to put it
to the test, right right, Like if I'm playing quarterback
and I watched Drake May and I criticize him when
he like makes a wrong read, Like am I able
to actually on the fly, like notice a coverage rotation,

(43:53):
Like I d what they're in, know where my beaters are,
get to the beater, Like obviously I'm not making the throw,
but I can do the mental process of what I do.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Now, So you're not making the throw. But they have
like a throw meter now or like you have to
decide exactly how much touch you want to put on
the ball or how much zip so like, mentally you
have to decide like the vision very different than the visions,
very different. Think like think like a shot meter in
two K. But for past Okay, sorry, I'm put in
the chat. If you want to see me and Evan
play Madden or the college game, you can get.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
I don't even have a console. I get you on
the console. But if you want to see it, put
it in the chat. Maybe enough of us can convince
even to make this a thing, because I think we'd
have fun. Hey Patriots fans, if you want to see
Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV, go
to buy a Toyota dot com. It's Toyoto's official website
for deals from the official vehicle of the New England Patriots, Toyota.

(44:45):
Let's go places and uh this is tough for read
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Speaker 1 (45:28):
All Right, the chat likes any of us playing Madden,
but they think I'd win. So you've been calling.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Oh yeah, I mean you definitely been. I haven't played
Madden in like ten years.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
What we get, I give you like a run up
before it's like serious, before we really count it.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Okay, let's get into our roster reset here on the defense,
and maybe we'll do like a couple positions and then
we'll open it up because I know people are waiting.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
With pose less positions on defense and offense.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
So let's start with the defensive line. There are twelve
names to get through here, so bear with me. Milton Williams,
Christian Barmore, Kean White, Joshua Farmer, Kyrie's Tanga Jeremiah Farms,
Jacqueline Roy, Eric Johnson, Jumaine Jones, Javari Ritzy, Isaiah iiden

(46:10):
eighten I believe, and uh Wilfred Penny are your defensive
lineman right now. So in for the sake of facilitation,
I had two little things I jotted down here yep,
the first one and uh this one is the most
interesting thing to me. Uh just get the caveat of

(46:30):
the way Christian Barmore, like, is he gonna be available?
Is he not gonna be available that you know? Is
he gonna uh be one hundred percent go no setbacks
like last year when he tried to come back. All
that stuff is is definitely out there. But what's a
little bit more interesting to me just in terms of,
uh this defensive line outlook? Is there another level for
Keon White like I have? Is this the best key

(46:52):
on White is gonna be or is there another level?
And can Mike Vrabel and hopefully one sees you know,
his health is in better order, Torell Williams, Yeah, come
back and be able to get that out of him.
And because I go back and forth on Keon White,
on the one hand, there's a ton of raw talent there.

(47:14):
There's a really good pass rush production from last year,
But is he just a interior pass rusher that should
really be more used in a rotation sparingly situationally sparingly
is the wrong word? Situationally is the right word? Or
is there a three down player in there that just
hasn't been coached up properly?

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Well? I think some of its consistency because we've seen
flashes of it, but and some of that's due to injuries.
But like he you know, is there another level? I
think at times he's played at very high level. You
look at those first few games of his rookie year,
you look at that little stretch he had last year.
So I don't know that it's it's like he knows
how to do it, it's just can he do it
more often? I think if he's going to this, this

(47:54):
defensive system certainly should help facilitate that. I think it's
a better fit for somebody who plays the way he
wants to play. Talked last year about how you know,
at times he was limited because in the back of
his mind he's working more uncontained than being aggressive. That
shouldn't be as much of an issue this year, So
I don't know that it's I think we've seen him
play at a level where he can be a three

(48:14):
down player. I think we have seen that, but he
also goes through stretches where he can't, Like he struggles
too much against the run, he's not getting after the
quarterback enough, things like that. So I just think it's
about consistency, and consistency is usually the last thing to
come for any player, but that's what I'm looking for
with him more than anything else.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
So his role in this defense is interesting because if
you assume that Christian Barmer is healthy and Milton Williams
is the one hundred million dollar man, right and Christian
Barmore is a very well paid player too, both those
guys are not coming off the field a ton. They're
gonna play a lot, yeah, assuming health and all that
kind of stuff. So they're gonna be the three techniques.

(48:54):
They're gonna be, you know, the one shades, like they're
gonna be the guys on the interior for three downs
most likely. So that means that ke On White is
not going to be playing the three technique or playing
over the guard on an every down basis. So the
next step for him is being better on the outside. Now,
he's not going to be standing up like he was
in a Belichick defense. In a more odd front three

(49:15):
to four, he's not going to be out on outside
the tackle. He's probably gonna be in like a five
or a four eye, like right over the tackle. So
can he play that role? Is that better suited? He'll
be handing the dirt, he'll be more up the field,
which I think are things that are encouraging. But he's
openly talked about in the past that he's not a

(49:37):
great outside rusher. He's a great interior rusher, he's not
great up on his feet, he's not great outside of
the tackle. Like that's not an overall strength to his game.
So maybe kicking him inside just even a little bit,
like into that straight up over the tackle would be
a five four eye is like shaded a little bit
into the b gap over the inside shoulder of the tackle,

(49:57):
like those types of alignments, Like maybe that's just enough
inside that he still has that feel of rushing on
the inside. I think there's some optimism with that being
the case. And then in the system you mentioned, you know,
the upfield stuff. I think last year what they got
caught in Is. Early on in the season, he was
running past the quarterback a lot. He was shooting gaps

(50:19):
and being overly aggressive to make plays in the backfield
against the run. Teams are smart. It worked for the
first couple weeks of the season. They watch film two
and all of a sudden you look at it and
you see on key on White side, there's no contain right,
So if you run vertically up the field at Keon White,
or if the quarterback escapes out the pocket that way,

(50:39):
there's going to be open gaps. And that that's sort
of what got him into trouble last year. So in deary,
I think this defense is a better fit for him
if there's another level to his game. And this is
the reason why, big picture that I brought it up.
This defensive line has a chance to be really, really good.
You know, bar More, Milton Williams, Keon White. You know,

(51:02):
they'll probably have like a designated pass rusher and a
Harold Landry in a you know, maybe it's a Chase
On or Swinson or one of those guys will be
the nine or the seven that's all the way outside
of the tackle and really just getting up the field
and rushing. So this this group has a really good
chance to be especially those top three guys. I would

(51:26):
say borderline elite. If Keon White has another level, if
there's another sort of thing for them to unlock. The
other question that I had on the defensive line is
one that I had coming into the draft and was
wondering if they would address. You know, I think Tonga
is an okay player for the role that he's probably
gonna play. I still feel like they might be one
run stuff for short on the interior, like pure three

(51:49):
twenty pounds and movable object run stuffer. They they're counting
on plays on the other side of the line of
scrimmage a little bit right now, and that in the
past in Tennessee. Just watching some of those Titans defenses,
there's a little bit of boom er bust there with
that type of style, like you're gonna make some plays,
but you're also gonna give up some, you're gonna get
gashed some. Playing that way do they need? It's not

(52:11):
a full time role anymore, which is why guys like
Devon Godshaw are and here anymore. They're not gonna be
asking nose tackles to play forty to fifty percent of
the snaps. How much do you trust Toga? Are you
at all worried about the interior run defense being firm enough?

Speaker 1 (52:25):
A little bit? And you know at the second level too,
you know they're they're smaller. I wonder so some of it.
I think Williams is gonna play more against the run
than he did in Philly, right, and they're gonna count
on him to grow as a run stopper. I think
they drafted Joshua Farmer to be that run stopper. He's
just not built like it. Yeah, but I would not
hate it if they added another nose tackle at some point.
I do think it would be a good addition. I'm

(52:45):
kind of surprised they didn't even in the UDFA market.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, it's definitely a secondary concern. It's not like I'm
not saying that this is why they're gonna go four
and thirteen. It's because they don't have a nose tackle.
But it was something that I thought was a sneaky
need in terms of depth there and just maybe some
guys that can make some plays. You know, I don't
think Jeremiah Farms is really that guy either. You know.

(53:09):
I liked what I saw at last year.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
He might end up being that guy just because again
they don't have Bright somebody else.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
But I'm with you know, I think Milton Williams is
going to have to play a lot more against the run,
and they're expecting him to be a true three down
game wrecker. And then bar More coming back healthy and
then it's kind of like, if you know Kean White
can take that next step, Now you have three guys
that can kind of wreck games upfront, and that's the expectation.
Moving to edge, your favorite position title real, very real position. Hey, listen,

(53:37):
I talked to Brandon Swinson's edge coach at LSU. They
literally have a coach that is his position is edge.
So it's a very real position. It's coming.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
So he coaches deep but like not all edge. So
he's coaching the two hundred and ninety pounds defensive end
the same way's coaching two hundred and fifty pounds out.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
He was coaching asigh linebackers in your in your parlance,
he was coaching outside.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Line side linebackers. Coach. My whole thing with edge is
like edge. There are some players that, depending on the system,
might have a different position right where you don't know
what team they're playing for. Once they are on a team,
that's where edge becomes unnecessary to me because you know,
in this system, that's how I feel about it.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
It does have a purpose, right, So like, for instance,
Matthew Judon when he was a free agent, it might
be a defensive end some places, might be an outside linebackers.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Some places, how do you include me call him an edge.
I'm fine with that. Once he signed with Patriots, he
was going to be an outside linebacker. We call him
an outside linebacker. So you know, for LSU, he's outside
linebackers coach, they call it edge, but he's outside linebacker's coach.
In the draft, I'm fine calling Braden Swinton an edge
because he could play either spot.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
The other line of demarcation for me is like does
a guy cover. If he doesn't cover, he's a defensive end.
If he covers, he's an outside linebacker.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
That's fair. So these guys to me are kind of
tough because they're kind of they're kind of hybrids in
this system. This system, they're gonna be designated pass rushers.
Most of the time. They don't drop a ton off
the edge. They they will do it run through them.
And I'll tell you what I'd consider all of Harold
Landry linebacker, Uh, Chase on linebacker. Anthony Jennings, he's.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Right on that line. I'll call him a linebacker because
as we played at Alabama, but he's right on that line.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Brandon Swinson, I think he's defensive end. Elijah Ponder defensive
outside linebacker. Those are all just outside linebackers. So most
of these guys I would say, are in the outside
linebacker category. There's people call it key On White and Edge. No,
he's the defensive lineman, right, he's defensive end.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
They these guys to me are are also though gonna
play potentially a lot in a three point stance like
Harold Andry played in a three point a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, you can play. You can have outside linebackers three
playing a three point stances. So the McGuinness used to
do that.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Yeah sometimes probably, although I guess some people call it
with the mguinnis a defensive end. So the biggest question
I had with this group, Uh No, now that he
can digress on the name Edge, Anthony Jennings one of
the guys you know him and Tavai that are still
kicking around from holdovers from this front seven from last year.
There aren't aren't many of them, frankly, especially at these

(56:15):
two spots. What's Anthony Jennings is fit here? And you know,
like what's his future because I don't necessarily see a
great fit in the scheme that they want to be playing.
And I'm curious to see what their plan is for
him because he's still on the roster, so they obviously
have some sort of plan for him, and I'm curious
to see what it is.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
So I feel more that way about to Vy, like.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
With Devis with my linebackers.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Okay, so we'll get to that. I think with Anthony Jennings. Look,
when he was at Alabama, he played up the field
more than he did into England.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, but then he had the injuries and then kind
of sapted his explosiveness.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
One thing he's really good at or look we're going back,
was he twenty class of twenty twenty, right, he was
the COVID draft. Yeah, so they're going back five six
years now. But like, one thing he was really good
at Alabama that I thought they were going to take
more advantage of here. They didn't. I think think you
had like eleven batted passes his last year in college.
He led an Alabama team in pass breakups that had
just a loaded secondary. Yeah, an insane secondary. And so

(57:09):
to me, let him get up the field, let him
get into passing lanes, let him put his hands up.
That's I think the role is to allow him to
get more aggressive and be more power rusher on the
on the quarterback's throwing side, on the front side. So yeah,
that's how i'd use him, Like, I think you have
a bunch of guys Calebon Chason's a weak side rusher
to me.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yep, he's a third down pass right, but he's.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Gonna you're gonna put him opposite the left ackle You're
gonna put him on the weak side, right, who else?
Swinston's probably weak side guy.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, I think him and Chase on are competing for
this the right the designated third down pass. Landry can
go on either side, but he's probably a weak side guy.
I think Landry is a strong side guy.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Likes more strong side guy.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Well, that's what he did in Tennessee and so especially
towards the end. So I just like where I wonder
what Jennings like is Jennings's role just back up to
Harold Landry, which, look, Harold Andry is you know what
thirty Now, it's not crazy to think that there might
be some snaps here for him, But.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Well, do you also let Jennings. Maybe Jennings puts his
hand in the dirt and Landry's standing up behind him.
Maybe they do kind of turn Jennings in more of
a full time defensive end.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, I guess. I mean like they're gonna play four
down though, right and you're expecting it to be Yeah,
you know, Keon White, Milton Williams, Christian barr More, Harold Landry,
with Chason maybe coming in on pass rush situations, kicking
Kean even further inside and then putting Chason on the
outside as a designated pass rusher, or maybe that ends

(58:32):
up being Swinson, which is sort of my number two
is like, I'm very interested to see if Swinston can
push Chase on and right away, which I think is
possible because I think Swinson's a really talented pass rusher, Yeah,
like really high end pass rush skill, so there's a
chance that he could push him right away. I just
look at at Jennings as a traditional strong side Belichick

(58:53):
edge setting three four linebacker. That was a long way
to say that, but like that, that's the way that
I look at him.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Well, this goes back to your point of the edge.
Can he maybe be an early down run player as
a defensive end.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
A hand in the dirt guy. I just don't know
if he's big enough for that.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
He's pretty, isn't he like two six?

Speaker 6 (59:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (59:11):
I thought he's bigger than that.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
I don't know. I'm not trying to write off anybody
in this exercise in May. We haven't seen anything. I'm
just it's just something that I has stuck with me.
As they turn over this roster, they've gotten away from
a lot of the typical Belichick role player type, seeing
like a Juwan Bentley, Right, he's not here anymore. Anthony

(59:32):
Jennings is one of the guys that's still here.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
So that's part of the reason if he's still here.
I have to believe he's still here for a reason.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Yeah, and I'm curious to see what the reason is
because they know more than I do about this, so
they probably have a role for.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Him, and I think he might be an early down player.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
I think he'll be an early down player no matter what.
But is he really going to be a four to
three end, like it was his hand in the dirt,
and like, I don't know, I just I know if
I see it. Linebacker, this is off ball linebacker now
Robert Spollyne July and Devai, Jack Gibbons, Christian Ellis, Monty,
Rice cam Riley. So there's one more. The biggest thing

(01:00:08):
with this group I think is obviously Devia's future. You know,
is he going to be here he is at his
best as they used to call it, the fixer right,
it was you know, off ball slash on ball, hybrid player,
depending on the down, depending on the situation, depending on
the game plan.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Another guy that said his best is like a strong
side edgesetter.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
And he's a tweeter, Like he's a guy that needs
to be used in a specialized role that allows him
to stay away from certain things like coverage in space
as his own dropper. He's not a pure edge rusher,
you know, in terms of pass rush, So you don't
want to be using him a ton like that. So
like there's ways that you have to coach around some
of his limitations. What his future is here is along

(01:00:50):
with Anthony Jennings, two guys that are still hanging on that.
I don't know if they're exactly a fit for what
they're going to be doing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Yeah, it's a Vilan's fascinating because he's survived all these cuts. Yeah,
and you know last year, so when he first came here,
he struggled playing off the ball. They moved him to
the edge and he was much better. Last year, he
had to go back off the ball because of all
those injuries, and he struggled again. Like I would have
put him in your edge category, I think he's an
outside linebacker. I don't think he's not off ball linebacker.

(01:01:18):
I think he's kind of similar to Jennings. You're gonna
put him on the strong side on early downs. He's
gonna set the edge against the run. I think that's
where he's at his best. You know, you don't want
him a ton of coverage. It's not great at rushing
the passer. But he's a big, powerful guy that can
take on blocks and hold his ground. Yeah, but they
have Jennings to do that as well, and some other
guys they've brought in. So unless they're gonna keep playing

(01:01:38):
him off the ball where you know, well, they played.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Him as a weak side linebacker in the past, where
so you know they don't want to put him on
the side with the double team.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Well, whichever side they'll put him on somewhere to put
against the run. The thing for me is they bring
in all these smaller, more athletic linebackers in I kind
of figured, do you still want one guy that's like
two fifty five, two sixty that can play situationally, you know,
third and one right, Yeah, he comes on the field,
it's a run downhill, he's gonna plug a gap. Yeah,

(01:02:08):
And they don't really have a ton of linebackers right now.
They're gonna do that, especially not at that size. And
this guy's probably gonna play special teams as well. We
talked about some guys during the draft that's like, are
they gonna take a guy later on Day three? Maybe
he's just a very involved special teams player that all right,
you know he's he's gonna be in in a defensive
package with like Kiris Tonga and Jeremiah Farms. We've got

(01:02:30):
to stop the run, put him in, let him plug
a hole.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
I like that take because I thought they were gonna
keep Bentley around for that right. I thought that was
gonna be but I think they decided that he has
too much of a voice and too much of a
leadership role on the team, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
This is like a twenty maybe thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
So to push him all the way down the depth
chart like that and play him so sparingly as a
guy that's been a captain and been a leader of
the defense, that was gonna be a tough transition for
a lot of people. But with Tavia, maybe they feel
like they could they could do that sort of thing
and get away with it, you know, him coming on
the field for a Gibbons for an Ellis, you know,
in run stopping situations. That could definitely make some sense.

(01:03:07):
How what what's your what's your feelings? So overall just
about this linebacker group, because we've gotten a lot of
questions in the past, you know, do we like this
linebacker group? Is there any concerns about about it? You know,
it's it's not exactly like they have you know, Teddy Bruski,
Mike Rabel and William Lennis right, Like, this is not
a star studded linebacker group. This is much more of

(01:03:28):
a stylistic fit, lunch pale kind of linebacker group. You know,
do you feel like they have enough here at this position?

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Yeah, it's it's it's changed. It's definitely changed. Again, I
think that they have the ability to be more athletic
cover place sideline a sideline they needed that. I still
wouldn't and maybe it is to buy I would have
liked to see them keep that one guy that can
come in and play the run. But yeah, so it's
it's it's changed. It's upgrade, it's more modern, But I

(01:03:57):
still like just having that one old school linebacker.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
The next Yeah, you could be right. It's a good
take about to Via. Maybe that's Tavia overall about the
linebacker group. I don't have a ton of concern about
them not being talented enough or having enough in this room,
I'll say it. And I know everything right now is
very positive and everything's pointed in a good direction. Patriots
fans are gonna love Robert Splaine. Oh yeah, Robert Spulayne

(01:04:22):
is he's not Ray Lewis, Like, he's not primer lacker,
like he's not that kind of guy. Like I get that.
But they need somebody in this defense from the second
level that's just gonna clean up the trash. They're gonna
watch the defensive line to get up the field. They're
gonna watch those guys to make the splash plays. But
every once in a while, when the running back squeaks through,
you know who can make the tackle. So that's an

(01:04:43):
eight yard gain and not an eighty yard game, right,
And that's Robert Splaine. Like he's a firecracker out there.
He plays with his hair on fire. He's sidelined a sideline.
He's a great tackler at someone's birthday. I don't know
what's going on out there. So that's that's Robert Splain, Like,
that's the type of thing that he can do. So
I wouldn't sleep on Spolene playing a good player.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Sure, I'm actually seeing if Christian Ellis can take another step.
He was actual playing some pretty good football at the
end of year last year.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Yeah, I think he's got a third down role in him. Yeah.
I think he's a coverage guy and and a more
athletic guy in space that can maybe do those kinds
of things. All Right, we're moving at a good pace here,
so let's just knock these out right. Cornerback Christian Zales,
Carlon Davis, Marcus Jones, Alex Austin, Marcellus dial Isaiah Bolden,
DJ James Miles, Battle, Kobe Minor, Brandon Crossley or your cornerbacks. No,

(01:05:32):
so a lot of questions in this group.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
He's listed as a safety for some reason. Jordan Polk
is a corner.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Okay, so I have him as safety. dB call him that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Played mostly corner last year in Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
So Christigan Zales and Carlon Davis are your starter's day
one week one, like there's no there's no questions about that.
I actually don't hate their depth with Alex Austin and
dial In Bolden in terms of outside corners either, you
know those guys are gonna hold fully knock on wood.
He up a ton of snaps for them this year,
and Gonzo and Davis, and I think Alex Austin's a

(01:06:06):
capable third outside corner.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
I should he should have played. I know he was hurt,
but like they didn't give enough chances last year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
The question that I have is slock corner.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
And they do not have enough depth beyond Marcus Jones.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
So Marcus Jones is your starting nickel corner, Like if
you're gonna play a true corner body type and a
true corner skill set. Then it's Marcus Jones. Right now,
they've talked a little bit about playing a big nickel,
whether that's a third safety.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Or it's or probably Craig Woodson, right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Is it Craig Woodson? Is it? Uh? You know, Kyle Duggart,
Jabriel Pepper is kind of morphing into that hybrid role. Again.
Woodson's probably the best guy to do it in terms
of what he's done in the past. Isaiah Bolden, I'm
just not ready to really count on him in any capacity.
Like maybe he has a good camp and my opinion

(01:06:54):
changes there. Marcus Jones. I really like Marcus Judge as
a man coverage player. I like him maybe a little
bit more than some other people, but there's a ton
of size there. There's durability concerns with him always. You know.
I still think slock corner is one of those positions
that I have circled in camp as like what are

(01:07:15):
they going to do here? You know, what's the plan?
Because it's a high stress role. Nowadays, it's one of
the more it's evolving into, I would say a premium
position in the NFL because of the amount of time
that you're at the point of attack in the run game,
and because of all of the inside receivers that you
have to cover, you know, whether that that be slide

(01:07:35):
receivers or even like pass catching tight ends, it's a
massive role in an NFL defense nowadays.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
This is where I think you this could be where
so we talked about this, like, I know you like
Elijah Ponder, but the UDFA class leans a lot more offense. Yeah,
Ponder is a good player, but you just look at
the depth in front of them. If we're going to
get a UDFA on defense, I think this is maybe
where where we get. Now Kobe Minors in the midd
he's not a udfavant, he projects as a slot corner

(01:08:04):
as well, so, but between Kobe Minor, Jordan Polk, Brandon Crossley,
this could be a chance for one of those guys
to stick on the roster, could have to play special teams, right,
but add some depth in the slot. I think mineor
is somebody whould add itt both spots right, and I
think Crossley as well, But this could be a spot
where one of those udfa's or Kobe Minor steps.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Up and it is the new strong sidelinebacker it has
been for years, but it's it's becoming that more and
more to the point where a lot of teams are
really using safety body types as in the slot, to
get some size in there and to get some run
instincts in there. The slot. The dream slot for any
NFL team right now is Brian Branch. Like, Brian Branch

(01:08:45):
is the absolutely the quintessential slot player at this point
in the NFL. In Detroit, He's the best one in
the league. And he's more of a safety than he
is a corner man. Coverage and being able to cover
like that isn't as always as big of a pro.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
And this is the guy that has gotten completely forgotten
about this offseason. Is this where you know, should we
bring Marte Mapu into this conversation?

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Yeah, So here's the safeties. Kyle Duggar, Jabrill Peppers, Craig Woodson,
Jalen Hawkins, Marte Mapu, Marcus EPs del Pettis, Josh Minkins,
and I have Jordan Polk here, but you're telling me
he's not here, but whatever Jordan Polk.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Also, so my two bigger questions here were obviously that
third safety spot, Like is it are they looking for
a nickel safety or are they looking for the true
free safety because they want Dugger or Peppers to play
nickel safety. You know, how do they go about that?
I'm packing that puzzle and then the other thing. I
just think it's worth mentioning since we did with Jennings

(01:09:40):
and Tavai, Like, are Dugger and Peppers one hundred percent
and trenched here?

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Are they safe now as long.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
As they're healthy?

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
I think they are because contractually they just signed those
extensions and it's not easy to get out of them
this quickly. And all that kind of stuff as well
play as a factor here. But how do you how
do you view the third safety? Because this could be
a big determining factor in all this puzzle putting this
puzzle together. In the back end, you have Dougger, you
have Gonzo and Davis on the outside. To me, are

(01:10:10):
the two only guys in this secondary that I'm one
hundred percent certain where they're gonna play? Like all these safeties,
like I you could convince me of any different type
of combination of you know, Craig Woodson's gonna be the
free safety. Craig Woodson's gonna be the nickel Craig Woodson's
gonna be a box safety like and same thing with
Peppers and Dugger Like they could be anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Well, you know me, I want the true free safety.
I'm interested to see where Marcus steps is at health wise. Yeah,
and you know how he looks. He's played, you know,
some good football, but he's coming off torn acl Craig
Woodson if he's back there. If you're gonna put a
safety near closer to the line of scrimmage, it should
be Duggar Peppers. That's where those guys are. Better. Keep
those guys close to the line of scrimmage. Find somebody
else to play on the back end, whether it's Apps,

(01:10:50):
whether it's Woodson.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Yeah, I'm with you. I think Kyle Dugar and Pepper's
one of those two guys. They've both kind of done
it in the past and taken turn playing as like
a nickel safety. I think those two guys can be
really good players in that role. They can blitz, they
can set the edge against the run, they can come
downhill at the line of scrimmage, they can handle some
of the more stressful zone drops that like a linebacker type,

(01:11:13):
you wouldn't necessarily want to handle. You know, if they
have to drop into you know, a zone in cover
three right and they have to pick up the cross
or coming from the other side of the formation, like
they can do those types of things. They can play,
you know, in different roles, you know, run the shoot
right in a Tampa two or in a quarters coverage
if they if somebody goes to split the safeties right

(01:11:35):
up the middle in cover two, like I could see
Kyle Dugger being able to carry that safety. Okay, that
that tight end or whoever's running up the middle a
lot better than a linebacker. So I like them in
those roles. That would mean Craig Woodson most likely or
Marcus Epps potentially would have to then be the true

(01:11:55):
free safety. I think that's their best defense. Yeah, Dugger,
Pepper's in the slot, the other guys playing the strong
safety box role Woodson or EPs up top. Like, I
hope that's what we get to eventually with this group.
I'd feel pretty good about that secondary with Gonzo and
Davis on the outside of that group. In the middle,
you feel pretty good about it. Really quickly. On the kickers, yes, especially,

(01:12:19):
they have to cut you off.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I was getting ready to cut you off and be like, don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Forget Bryce Berenger, John Parker Romo, ye, Andy Borgolis and
Julian Ashby. So we know Berenger and Ashby are gonna
be your punter and long snapper Alex Bart Is there
a kicker competition?

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
I mean there is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
I don't think there is. Well, well, they drafted the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
They're gonna go through one, whether or not there's anything
behind it or it's just academic. Like I let me
put it this way, I think John Parker Romo is
gonna be on the team through the end of camp,
okay or club maybe they or before. But like I
last year, it didn't feel kind of neck and neck
going in last year, Yes, right like this, people were saying, well,

(01:13:04):
just you know, Ryland had an advantage because he was
on the team. Maybe a little bit. This to me
feels like Parker like it's Romo's job to or sorry,
it's it's job to lose, right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
I mean, Barguallace would have to be terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Right, he's starting ahead, And honestly, I think they want
to see maybe just how the kid handles some pressure.
Maybe just have another guy here see he handles it.
So it should be Borgollis. This is not as much
of a toss up as last year, but I think
they are still going to go through the exercise to
see how the kid handles it and just to make.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Sure, Okay, that's it. And then I have Brendan Schooler
as a cover Jase and I I believe, you know
kick covering special teams days.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Matthew Slater, I think he might still play. I wouldn't
Longhorn package stick around.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
It was effective. Yeah, I don't think that was like
the one wrinkle that I'm not coaching staff.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Last year that worked, so I don't think that goes
away entirely.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Now maybe it looks different, but he was able to
get heat, was aggressive and getting after the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
That's what they want from there. He was essentially playing
linebacker more than safety.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Yeah, I mean he was, and I say this a
little the tongue. Yeah, he was like legitimately one of
their best pass rushers. But it was effective, so it worked.
I kind of hope that doesn't go away entirely. It
might look different and it might not be as much,
but you know, keep that in place a little bit. Yeah,
I'm with you. I have him in the coverage area
right now, he's gonna be on the team, But I

(01:14:25):
just I do wonder this coaching staff tries him out
on defense at all.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
I do wonder. I mean, they've been pretty walked into
the kicker handling kickoffs the last few years. It's not
like that everywhere. I do wonder if they open up
open up for kickoffs between Borgolos and Baringer, they're both
bigger guys, they can both handle themselves and coverage, they
both have a big leg. I wonder if they open
that up or you know, you see some teams now
and the Patriots kind of flirted with this last year

(01:14:51):
in camp. I don't think it ever trying to remember
if they ever did in a game like because it's
so specialized now and all right, we want to put
the ball in this spot, on this trajectory. We want
to put the back here with this kind of kick.
If there is a Bourgalis kickoff package and a Bearinger
kickoff package just based on their ability to hit different kicks.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Interesting, all right, So that's the defense and the special teams,
because we had to get special teams in there. So
the last forty five minutes of the shows all you guys,
we got calls, we got emails, so let's start it off.
Hopefully is still there. What's up, Patty and aguam, how
are we doing?

Speaker 7 (01:15:26):
I'm still here, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
What's up? Patty?

Speaker 7 (01:15:29):
Not too much. I just want to go over a
few things. I'll make them quick, heavan. Maybe Alex can't
get you sold on golfing, but dude, I'm telling you
maybe once you're a little bit older, there's there's nothing
more relaxed and then grabbing a few beers, throwing them
in a cooler, getting on a golf cart and just
having a good time. You know, Because I don't know
about Alex. I don't really play competitively. No, just go

(01:15:52):
to play to have fun in it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
So that I think that's my problem, and I think, Patty,
you're right, maybe my older ages will go away. I
was a good athlete, I'll put that out there. But
I was extremely competitivele You know me when I golf
the part that frust up I stink, And you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Know me, I'm very competitive and I'm not good, and
I make it work. I make it more.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
I can't do like leisurely, like past time, like if
I'm playing a sport, I'm competing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
If you know, but if you go in knowing you're bad,
it's easier because you're just trying to get better. On
the other side, though, somebody in the chat did offer
to buy you a gaming console, so one step closer.

Speaker 7 (01:16:28):
Yeah, listen, you know if you if you game, dude,
I'll go buy Accountable. If you guys go on Twitch.
I've never been on Twitch, but if you, if the
two of you make that happen, I'll make it happen too,
just so I can, just so I can have more
of your context. Because Ny, when it comes to you
that the last two things I'll touch on, it's funny, guys,
we're going over roster reset. I don't think that the

(01:16:50):
roster construction is done by any means of course. I
mean they got to get through cuts and everything. But
I think the final fifty three, I think they're gonna
I'm I think they're gonna add a receiver somehow, some way.
But Alex, I think around last year, around this time,
and this is the last thing. I gave you a name, Mosey.
The last year, two years ago, I gave you the

(01:17:11):
name of Joe Griffon, junior from Boston College Wide receiver.
He didn't pan out, but I'm going to give you
another guy to look at. And I know it's way
too early to get into college football. And he shares
a name with with with another wide receiver. But Elijah Moore,
six foot four x guy, two hundred and five pounds,
plays from Florida State. He's I think he was a

(01:17:33):
red shirt freshman last year, but he's got a lot
of He's getting a lot of play right now. I
mean there's a lot of people are thinking that he's
gonna have a breakout year. And you know, maybe two
years from now.

Speaker 6 (01:17:45):
We don't.

Speaker 7 (01:17:46):
We're too good and we don't have enough capital to
trade for Jeremiah Smith. But that's the name to if
he has a big year, big couple of years to
look out. And that's all I got.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
All right, Thanks Patty, thanks for the call. Every buddy
is gonna try to get me into golf. I'm telling you,
it's like, oh, it's like Peloton, Like, oh, you gotta
try Peloton. It's not like you can't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
Drink well, I guess you could drink a drink Peloton.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
I'm not. I'm just I I actually would prefer to
Peloton then to golf. I'm not gonna lie, horrible take
I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 5 (01:18:21):
It takes a long time to get good at golf.
And if you are competitive, I'm the exact same way.
It's like, oh, I'm just gonna go hit the driving
range for you know, twenty bucks a pop for four
months before I could step onto a course.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
It's just like I get three or four holes in
and I I just I'm done, Like it's it's it's
just not for me.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
But it's not if you just don't expect yourself to
be that good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
It's not even realistic that though. It's like I'm terrible,
Like I'm like, I think this is ultimate lazy. Yeah,
like if I've never done it. Uh, I played one
round with a card. I played like probably like five
rounds of golf in my life. Four of them I walked,
and one of them, so I will say some of
those numbers are not used.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
I used to always walk. And then like two years ago,
has placed my buddies at a really hilly course and
we're like going up to the last holes, like this
big hill in the woods, and we were just like
feeling it. We got up to the top of that, we
looked each other and we're like, we're too old to
be walking. So like all occasionally walk nine. I play
with the cart most of the time. Now if I'm
playing eighteen, I'm absolutely playing with car.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I definitely could be swayed by the cart.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
I we'll get you out there this summer. This is
gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
No, Yes, Chris is in the original England, so across
the pond. What's up, Chris, Chris, you're there, all right,
give us a call back, Chris and we'll get you on.
All right, let's get to some of these emails. Lots
of emails pulling pouring in and I can't speak. You know,

(01:19:51):
this guy Brownie's emailing in my college roommates. Ok, you
knew Brownie back in the day.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Is this about the Eagles?

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
It's about the schedule release. But yeah, I assume that
Brad is like me with the Celtics, like I still
wear the Championship had for the Celtics. Yeah, I guarantee
you that he's still walking around in the Championship had
for the Eagles. So Brad's a big Eagles fan. Shout
out to my guys in PA. But what is your
favorite NFL stadium you have traveled to. This's a good question.

(01:20:21):
I do keep track. I think I'm like, this is
a humble brag, but I think I've been to like
twenty four.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
Do you have a running list?

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
I do keep track. I can pull it up real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
And how many have I been to?

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
It's probably h much easier at this point to tell
you the stadiums I haven't been to than the ones
I have been to. So I've been to twenty four.
I was right. So the stams I haven't been to
Carolina Bank of America and Carolina lumin in Seattle, which
is a bummer. I can't wait to get to that
one Energy in Houston. Never been there, Raymond James, and Tampa,

(01:20:56):
which I'll check off this year, which I'm excited about.
I never been to so far because it's so new.
I haven't been yet. So those are the the what, one, two, three, four,
five stadiums I haven't been to. So my answer for
my favorite is different from my I have two different
answers to this question. There's a difference between the my
favorite stadium I've been to and like the most historic,

(01:21:18):
like coolest venue I've been to. So the nicest stadium
in the league is in Vegas, and it's not particularly close,
like the Raiders Stadium is unbelievable. Like the only one
that's come close is is is Jerry World, Like that's
the only one that's even in the same stratosphere. I
would say the like Lambo's Lambeau, Like, yeah, like Lambo's Lambo.

(01:21:42):
It's it's it's just there's a feel to it, like
you walk. It's not an impressive stadium. It's it's a
little bit like Jillette. It's kind of just a stadium.
Uh But you go there and it's just you know,
you see Curly Lambo and Bart Starr and you know
all of the great Packers just like around Ring of Honor,
and you just know the history and you know, like

(01:22:03):
the players that have played in that stadium. There's absolutely
no other feeling besides uh No, I'd say Lamba is
probably in its own category in that regard.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
I think my favorite people are gonna be surprising when
me say this. I have two that are towards top Buffalo.
Well that same just stinks though, but it's that's what
football should be. It's loud, it's rowdy, it's metal bleachers,
it's open, it's old school.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
That's about the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
I know, it's a shame. That's that's a real football statement.
That's a college environment. And then Pittsburgh's really cool too.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
Pittsburgh's all right. I've kind of gotten over Pittsburgh as
we've been so many.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Times that that was it's the same thing again.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
I know that sounded.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
It's it's a cool stadium, elite, media spread, elite. But
it's also like it's a it's a cool building, it's
a historic building. All that. I know. My lead the
I actually can answer my least favorite easier than my
favorite release, met Life. Yeah, it's just it and I
understand why it's like this, but it's faceless.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
So I describe MetLife to people like, you know, like
when Lego has like football stadium, it's just the Lego
seen it's literally like football stadium, Like that's what I
would call it. Like that's it. That's all it is.
It is just generic football stadium.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
It's hard to get to. Yeah, we got lost one
year driving every work for sealing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
It's not good. So I would say, just.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
From a media standpoint, yeah, for one o'clock game, Yeah,
the sun comes right into the press box and you
get cooked.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
That is That's what those are. The type that you
tell me that I complain about things.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
That that's fair. Yeah, so well allegiant Honestly, anybody's sitting
in that corner, but yeah, allegiant. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
In at and T in Dallas and walking into Jerry
World and walking out into this just it's just huge
and it's it's impressive. It's an impressive stadium for the history.
I would say definitely Lambo is one of its own arrowhead.
It just the atmosphere arrows just off the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
Chuck Well that that that's me with buffal I haven't
been any of those I have been to. So Atlanta
was the same thing. Like I walked into Atlanta. Atlanta's impressive.
And I was there before the Super Bowl because I
went for Alabama Florida State when they were one and
three in the country a couple of years ago. And
it's like, I mean that is a football cathedral, Like
that building is so impressive. Absolutely, and then so I

(01:24:27):
haven't been for an event, but I went on a
tour when I was in college. Minnesota stadium is very
impressive too, and I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Like how that's a good shout.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
I'm pretty anti indoor stadium generally as a rule. I
love but I know because the nerds. But as far
as indoor stadiums go, look they don't let the weather
get in, which sucks, but there is a ton of
natural light in there compared to a lot of indoor stadiums.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Minnesota was one of the cooler environments. The one time
I've been to Minnesota, and we're gonna go back potentially
this year. But the one time that I went to
Minnesota was Thanksgiving night Hunter across the goal line and
they had a great in game presentation. The skull chant
hits it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
I want to see the skull chant like again. I
went for a tour. I wasn't there for a game fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Like it definitely, Uh it hits like, it's really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
Their intros were really cool. They they had fake snow
like coming down and like real cute. You had fake
snow coming down and he just you know, skull skull
like really cool and you know, mate, hopefully we get
there with like Drake may or something like that. But
when they do the individual player intros and you have
a player of Justin Jefferson's caliber, like in its inside

(01:25:41):
to the noises. I mean it is like God himself
just walked onto the football field. Like that's how it
feels like. And it was really cool that night. You know,
it's prime time Thanksgiving night. He was just coming off
that game in Buffalo where he made the crazy one
handed catch and justin Jefferson comes onto the field and
it is just the one of the loudest atmospheres you'll

(01:26:03):
ever be in.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
What was I gonna say, Indy was cool that that
Builly's huge?

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Yeah, and he's like, you know a lot of these domes, uh, Indy, Arizona,
you know, not necessarily like the most historic of places
or anything, but they're well designed. They're domes. They're indoors,
so they're big and impressive. You know, Arizona is one
of those places that it's so obvious why they hosted
super Bowls there, Like it's the weather, It's yeah, it's

(01:26:32):
it's just a really nice layout. All right, there's your
stadium minute. It's a good question for schedule release day.
Jeff emails in from La and he had we talked
about this. We touched on it briefly. Uh, why is
nobody giving West Sweitzer a chance that left guard. Cole Strange,
Light and Robinson and City so get named the most

(01:26:53):
and we never hear about Schweitzer. Well, he has started
more games than those guys, and that was what he
brought up, which is all all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
Fare, I think, all but what four or five of
those are pre twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
Yeah, I I used the comparison earlier. I stand by it.
You know, Wes Schweitzer, to me, is very similar to
Michael Jordan last year. If nobody is ready from that
younger group to play right away out of the gate,
then you start Wes Sweitzer the first month, you know,
five weeks of the season, whatever the case may be,

(01:27:26):
and you get you know, those guys ready, but like
you shouldn't be in that position. Cole Strange is going
into year three, Leydon Robinson's going into year two, City
sw is going into year two, year three, Cole Stran
going into year four, year two three, Jesus Christ two
twenty three four four, Yeah, he's twenty year four Jesus

(01:27:47):
So yeah, like those guys aren't rookies anymore where you're
worried about them being ready to play the position. So
I think that's why they shouldn't need Schweitzer. That doesn't
mean he won't make the team. They shouldn't need them.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
So Schweitzer started six two games in his career thirteen
of those all but thirteen were before we're twenty twenty
or earlier. He's only started two games in the last
two years, none last year. He's only played ten games
total in the last two years.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Yeah, Well, because he's he's really a career backup, Like
he's a nice backup to have. Like, those guys have value,
you know, sometimes nowadays they're they're veteran practice squad players,
but they have value because they've played games in the league.
They've been around. Like if you needed a spot start,
like would they spot start Wes Schweitzer over you know,

(01:28:34):
a rookie or a you know, Jack Conley or something
like probably right, you know, that's like the why those
types of guys are around. Chris has a question and
he We've gotten this question a bunch two as well,
just in all the shows, like Mac Collins and his
security on the roster. You know, Chris lays it out.
I'm not going to read the whole email, but you know,
why is Mac Hollins considered a lock. I think both

(01:28:57):
of us have sort of said he's a lock. I
lock might be strong. I think he's a probable player
to make the roster. I think there's a world where
he doesn't, because it's not like they have all this
money tied up into him that it's impossible. But I
think it's a couple of reasons. To me, they need
a glue guy in that room. And I know that
not a lot of people want to look into that

(01:29:17):
too much and don't like the culture stuff, but the
reality is that room last year was a mess and
they're trying to change the culture of that room, so
they kind of need that glue guy type. Matt Collins
throughout his career has been known to be that he
has familiarity and Josh mcdaniels's offense. He played with McDaniels,
had his best year under McDaniels in Vegas. We're talking

(01:29:38):
about Schweitzer as being a bridgie type player, like Matt
Collins to me, in terms of his role on the field,
is sort of a bridgie player to Kyle Williams, Like
if Kyle Williams is not ready to play the X
week one of the season right out of the Gate
in September. Matt Collins can go out there, he can
run the wind sprints, he can be the sacrificial X,

(01:29:59):
and they don't have to throw guys like Kyle Williams
directly into the fire right away if they don't want to.
Special teams stand out. I think that has to be
mentioned too. But I would just find it hard to
believe that MATC Collins isn't here. I know not. Everybody's
not super impressed with him as a player. I think
he's a little underrated. Like I'm not saying he's Randy Moss,
but like his year in Buffalo last year wasn't terrible,

(01:30:21):
like if you watched the film, like his film isn't terrible.
I don't think he's as bad as some people think,
but I understand that he's not the most exciting out
of this group either way. Where do you stand right
now with mac Collins?

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, he's maybe one step below
a lock, but he'd certainly be as surprised as a
as a cut like they need an AX. He can
play the acts. Like you said, the leadership stuff, I
think you pretty much nailed that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
So this is from Ashton in Canada. He is wondering
what we think Pot Douglas's steeling is and where does
he need to improve on to achieve his ceiling? These
things like I would say, are you good over there?

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
I think so. I want to make sure it's like
in the right spot, so he keeps all right, I mean,
where he's improved, just availability, right, He's been kind of
banged up his first couple of years, so staying on
the field and that that's the big thing to me.
Like on top of that, I think he can be,
you know, a really good secondary option. Maybe work on

(01:31:21):
his contested catch ability a little bit, but like I mean,
I think he is a legitimate top three receiver in
an NFL wide receiver room.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
His ceiling, I think he's close to it. Yeah, I
think he's right about there. He's a third receiver, like
he's a slot and eleven personnel, right, I don't think
he's a base receiver. It's gonna play in your base packages.
He's a slot only fifty sixty percent ideally, But when
he comes in, he makes an impact and he makes place.

(01:31:49):
His ability to separate against man coverage is good, it's
above average to really good. Trade of his I would
say the next step for him on the field is
really learning how to run routes against zone a little
bit more consistently. Sometimes when he sees zone, he doesn't
always find those pockets, right, He's not always very quarterback
friendly and doesn't find the pockets. And he's not the

(01:32:10):
biggest the targets to begin with, so that works against
him too. But you'll see, like last year a couple
of times where you know, the big one is obviously
the interception to end the game against the Rams, but
like just in general, where Drake may really wants him
to sit or settle in the zone and he's kind
of still running and like then he like kind of
comes back late to it and maybe has to make

(01:32:31):
an adjustment on a catch. You know that that's what
takes those types of slot guys from like what Pop
Douglas is doing right now over the first two years
of his career to being like Wes Welk or Julian
Edelman volume right, one hundred and twenty plus targets is
can you have developed that sixth sense and that ability
to find the openings when you do see zone. It's

(01:32:53):
not all going to be man to man and it's
not all going to be matchup base. You have to
be able to get open there. So I would say
that that's the biggest thing for him as well. All Right,
this question, I think is an obvious answer, but like
we can just kind of couch it like this, which
rookie do you think will have the biggest impact on
the season. Let's take Will Campbell out of it, because

(01:33:14):
I thinks OBUs.

Speaker 1 (01:33:16):
Should be Kyle Williams. Ideally it's Kyle Williams, like they need.
He's in a position where like there's not a ton
of of competition for him, especially if Dis isn't going
to start the year. You know, they should be throwing
the ball more with Drake May and he's an explosive player.
I'm gonna say, Kyle Williams, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
Gonna say I agree, But just for the sake of
being different, I think Travon Henderson is gonna have a
big impact. Okay, I think Trayvon Henderson has a chance
to be My guess is that it might not manifest
itself in him being the true number one running back
in the rotation and snaps or a volume standpoint, But

(01:33:54):
I think his big playability is just gonna be infectious. Like,
I think it's gonna be hard to keep him off
the field when they really need points because of how
he can flip the field. And I think that's gonna
be just huge for them in general. They just really
haven't had that here in quite some time, and I
think they might have it with Kyle Williams too, But
I feel better just in terms of actually being able

(01:34:18):
to take explosive plays, chunks out, whatever you want to
call it, Like I think Trayvon Henderson's gonna do that instantly,
whereas with Kyle Williams, like there might be more of
adjustment with the routs in the role and all that
kind of stuff, but both those guys should be able
to make an instant impact in terms of all of that.
All Right, this is another question here from Barton Poll
and that bart I'm sorry I haven't gotten to this

(01:34:40):
question sooner because he's emailed in like three weeks in
a row trying to get to this question. So I
wanted to ask about Will Campbell and his potential potential
transition to left guard, which he's not gonna do, but
it's okay. I know it's often said that it's the
worst case scenario, but he's said that he's heard multiple
people mention that his stance at left tackle might make
the transition up because he'd likely have to adjust his stance.

(01:35:02):
So he does have an at least at LSU, And
I don't know if he was coached this way. Emery Jones,
the right tackle at LSU, did it too, but not
quite as pronounced as Will Campbell. Will Campbell does have
like an upright stance. I'm not talking about how he
plays once this ball is snap, but like when he

(01:35:23):
actually gets the line of scrimmage, he does have like
sort of an unorthodox upright stance to him. But what
I think is really good about him is that once
the ball is snapped, like he's got great sink and
lower body flexibility to get his pass down instantly. It's
just the way he stands literally, just what he literally stands.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
It's like he got with the weird batting stands.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
Yeah, where the way the ball is snap now, is
that something that needs to be fixed or changed? I
don't know. I would tend to lean towards don't mess
with it unless it becomes a problem.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
It was kind of like how they would talk about
Drake May's throwing motion when we talked to them about that, Like,
if he starts to lose control of the ball and
we see a lot more of those sprays than maybe
you want to tighten it up and change you know,
the actual arm motion. But if his accuracy is fine,
and then why would you mess with it? Right, You're
just messing with it just to mess with it because
it doesn't look aesthetically great. I think the same thing

(01:36:15):
is true with Wilkes Well.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
I I would again I like the batting stands comparison
because a lot of these guys with weird bating stands
is right, like Kevin Euclis, he's all the way up
here and it's like, you know, his heads in his
arms or whatever. As the pitcher gets ready to throw,
you watch and he kind of sinks back into a
more normal stance standing that weighs more just like a
timing mechanism. And a lot of these guys name anybody

(01:36:37):
with a weird batting stance, right, Garry Sheffield, Gary Schiff,
well know Gary Sheffield section exception of this. But Chuck
Nawblock is what like he'd have the bat all the
way over there but gets in with position, whari, he's
more loaded up as the pitch is coming. Like, as
long as you can get into that position in time,
like you said, it's not an issue.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
That's the way I look at it now. I don't
know if that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
I'll give you another one. Tyreek Hill, Yeah, Tyreek Hill
just stands there before the snap. He does it. You
wouldn't coach or ash and Genty, you wouldn't coach you
got a stand like that. But they can get to
where they need to get to once the play starts,
and that's ultimately what you care about.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Ash and Genty is a good comparison because he has
that weird like upright, he just stand there, literally just stands.

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
I think Sheffield kept doing that thing until like he
was really ready to swing. Maybe I'll just remember it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
All right, let's get back to the phones. Brad is
in Ohio. It's up Brad.

Speaker 8 (01:37:28):
Hey, crew, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
How are you pretty good?

Speaker 8 (01:37:32):
I got a couple of quick questions, real quick. You
know you're all insightful, so so much so. Uh. I
just want to I want to ask, do you think
that it'll be McDaniels or digs that will help pop?
William or Polk kind of transcend to the next you know,

(01:37:53):
be able to like we were talking about get better,
you know, based on which one of those players do
you look making the largest lead or or benefit to
our team? And the first question I had and then
which guard given city sales and left guard? Like I
believe that Han said that before uh his position of

(01:38:17):
you know, originality and which one would fit best in
Josh McDaniel's offense with you know, given the three we
have that you have just mentioned, And then do you
think the fullback and depre because of the blocking blocking
ability in the way McDaniels structures the offense both have

(01:38:39):
an opportunity to make the team. And then my last
the question or you know statement was with with Diggs
and Born in the of the you know, the ones
that's going to teach mostly about helping the guys. Do
you think Baker out or will it be Booty in

(01:39:03):
your opinion?

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
Thank you, Thanks Brad that those were a lot of questions,
so we'll try to get to all of them. In
terms of receivers, you know, Polk, Baker, Williams. I think
we're all the most optimistic about Kyle Williams right now,
because he's the unknown guy or he's the rookie we
haven't seen before. I'm still and again, I the way
I would try to phrase this, I guess is like

(01:39:25):
I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the same out
of Jalen Polk. Like I hope that it works out
for him. I hope that last year. There's a lot
of excuses the wrong word. There's a lot of caveats
to last year for Jalen Polk. Wasn't a great coaching staff,
it wasn't a great situation for a rookie wide receiver.
There's a lot of reasons to point to it and
just kind of be willing to throw out Jalen Polk's

(01:39:48):
rookie season. With that being said, though, I just there's
not a ton of precedent for a player coming in
as a rookie, having such little production in so much
many struggles as a rookie, and then going on to
blossoming into being a true contributor. Like it just I'm
honest saying you can't be an NFL player, but to
go from that to being instantly like a good player

(01:40:12):
or the player that people projected coming out of college,
you know, Kobe Meyers, Tyler Boyd type of receiver. I
just think there's a long way to go for that
to be a reality. And I would say the same
thing about Javon Baker. I'm not writing them off. I'm
just not expecting anything. I think that's like, you know,
sort of the difference, Whereas with Kyle Williams, I kind
of have some expectations for him right now, and I

(01:40:33):
think Kyle Williams, they have a chance to really hit
with Kyle Williams, and I'm expecting them to almost in
a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
Yeah, I'll answer the guard one. To me, City Show's
the favorite because he is a true left guard, and
I think he plays the game more as more of
a maller than the other two, which is what they want,
which is what Josh McDaniels historically wanted in his guard.
So to me, like City Show's the best fit. Does
that mean he's the best player. We'll find out, But
remember he was. He had a good year as a rookie,
and he had really good summer last year before he

(01:41:00):
got hurt. He just never really bounced back from that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Yeah, it's definitely possible, and he's the biggest out of
the three guys, just from a measurable standpoint, which you know,
if they want to get back to those like mauling
guards and in the McDaniels, you know, downhill scheme. I
think Laden Robinson. He's smaller, like literally smaller, but he's
also kind of like a maler and has play strained
to him. Really. The only guy that I don't think
fits is Strange, like Cole Strange is his own guard.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
No, he's a center in this scene.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
Yeah, but he's he's I think both those guys Robinson
and and so mix it up in a run game
and like have a good solid foundational play strangth to
their game that would lend themselves to playing in more
of like a gap scheme or a downhill scheme like
we've seen from McDaniels in the past. Email here from
Dave and San Jose. His question is what trade value

(01:41:48):
if any do any of the wide receivers have even
a late round pick just talking about the log jam
numbers wise that wide receiver. I still think the guy
that has the most value, which is the reason why
he's been floated in rumors, is Kaishan Boody. Yeah, and
I think that's why his name is out there and
nobody else's name is out there. Kendrick Bourne is kind
of going into a season where he needs to, you know,

(01:42:11):
rebuild his stock in an NFL hierarchy, just because of
last year in the ACL two years ago. Kaishan Boody
to me, seems like the guy that maybe even they're
trying to sell, like frankly, like, you know, just with
all the rumors that have been out there, he's been
somebody that's just there's always a reason why the guy's
name's out there. And I would say it's not because

(01:42:32):
they necessarily don't see him being on the team or
having a role on the team. I think it's more that, hey,
if we can get a third or fourth round pick
for Kashan Boody, wouldn't it be a little bit crazy
not to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
Yeah, it's clearly him And I'll say this on Bourne.
If Bourne does enough this summer to prove that he
has trade value, they should probably be keeping him. Yeah,
because it means he's playing well and we know that
it works with him and Josh McDaniels.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
That's fair, all right. Uh, Jake says there would one
be an audience for Catch twenty two on Twitch playing
dynasty in CDB. Do you does that mean anything to you?

Speaker 1 (01:43:13):
Yeah? So, uh what is CDB?

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
Maybe he meant CFB CFB Yeah, so well so it
basically I think what he meant, because I've had people
ask me about this, like we're instead of playing against
each other, like we do a franchise and we build
the team.

Speaker 1 (01:43:28):
I'll let you call the place and me the quarterback.
I'll be the receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
So he said, Uh, what he would want us to do, yeah,
is to each build our own separate teams in the
same conference in college football and then play each other.

Speaker 1 (01:43:44):
See. I feel like it'd be better and Madden, because
then we'd be doing like free agency in the draft
and stuff. Because you're not You're not going to get recruiting.
That's going to frustrate you. I know that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
But is it like is it like do they have
like scenes? Like is it like you walk you walk
into something. It's like you have like make an elevator pitch.

Speaker 1 (01:44:02):
You can't actually see it, but so like they you
have a certain number of points, right, Yeah, And depending
on your coach and your school, you have different Every
school has a different number of points to work with.
But each week you use you like spend your points.
You could what is it you can DM recruits. You
don't get to choose what you say, but like these
are what you're spending your timeline. DM recruits talk to family.

(01:44:25):
There's one that's like set in the house, which is everything,
and I forget what the middle one is. I never
use that. But then there's also like you can like scout.
You can spend time scouting. You can spend time just
doing other things things like that. I'm out, Yeah I don't.
That's not for you. No, I think it would be
me versus you. We'd figure out some way to do it.
In Maden er CFB. But the people want to watch it.

(01:44:47):
The people do want to watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
Brownie emails back in as someone that has golfed with
me before, which is true. I think I've golfed with
him at least once. And he says, as someone who
has golf with Evan, and I would agree with him
better to stay off the course. But a cart would help,
is what he said. Yeah, I Brownie knows, he knows
how I have no patience for the game of golf.

(01:45:11):
Ryan is in Virginia, what's up, Ryan, You guys hear me?

Speaker 4 (01:45:15):
Yes, right, I got two comments and hypothetical that I'll
listen to go off there. I understand that, like you said, Mac,
college to see the blue guy. I know that in
the past people have seen Kendricks Born as.

Speaker 8 (01:45:28):
The blue guy.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
I also think that like my comments though, is that
he's a sneaky devices, especially with the Bailly zappy and
like mac Jones situation, I think he's like underfined a
lot of the room in the past, even though he
has like a mom thod. I just don't really like
I feel like he's not a good blue guy. By
other comment is I think there's heavily on Drake made

(01:45:50):
his development the sex year dump. So my hypothetical view
is to father, see Drake may have like a seventh
touchdown in turnover retio or he's down at like twenty
four touchdowns and keeps it overs underten O that off there.

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
Yeah, Ryan, that's a great call, because this is uh.
I'm curious about your answer to that.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
Yeah, you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
My answer to that is the load load turnover numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
The nerds they want to tell you turnovers don't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
Second probably so well that was why. I thought it
was a good question because I thought that this is
where we're but like you want them to score. Yes,
I that's a weird question. It's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
It's a weird question because all right, twenty four touchdowns.
Does Travian Hunt Henderson punch ten touchdowns in from the
one yard line? Right? Like I It's so dependent on
the context. Cutting down the turnovers is a big must
for Drake May this season. He's a turn He was
over turnover per game guy last year. Like that needs

(01:46:50):
to come down. I look at can you get through
the season at a turnover per game flat? Like as
a maximum? Can you get through the season with that?
But you know, if he's like twenty turnovers but he
throws close to forty touchdowns, that's pretty good. So it's
I mean, it's very But at the same time, let's
say he only throws twenty two touchdowns, but there were

(01:47:11):
top five offense in football because they keep getting inside
the five and just running the ball in which we
know Josh McDaniels likes to do. He probably had a
pretty good season even if the stats aren't there. So
cutting down the turnovers is important. I don't you know,
putting an exact number to the same thing. If it's
if he has less interceptions, if it's twenty two touchdowns
but ten interceptions, but he fumbles the ball another ten times,

(01:47:32):
versus if it's the seventeen interceptions but that's it and
he doesn't fumble. There's so much context missing there, it's
tough to answer that question.

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
Okay, so just to pull it up because you know,
you knew I was going to go here. So last
year Josh Allen had twenty eight touchdowns, a six interceptions,
one MVP.

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
The and that's not a lot of touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
Well there's a fake MVP, but but one MVP of
the league, fake MVP Joel Joel embid one MVP one time.
Oh my god, he did he also well, he also
had thirteen rushing touchdowns, saying so he had forty one
rushing touchdowns to six interceptions.

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
Forty one total touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
Yeah, sorry, forty one total touchdowns to six interceptions. He
fumbled five times, but I don't know if those are
all lost, but let's just call it forty one and
eleven was his reshie. That's why you win MVP of
the league, right, Like those are MVP numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:48:18):
Yeah, no, that would be well Lamar had more MVP numbers,
but sure, just just he was by default their MVP numbers,
he was first or second for the MVP. Can do
that great? I think just he's not gonna do I
know he's not gonna do that, but I think just
putting it on touchdowns interceptions removes a lot of content.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
So just but just for the sake of the discussion,
because I think that this is this is the volatility
question that's really being asked. So in twenty twenty three
where Josh Allen also had a really good season, but
he was twenty nine touchdowns passing touchdowns to eighteen interceptions.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Yeah, that's too many.

Speaker 2 (01:48:54):
So that that, right there is what I think I
could see Drake May doing in the ballpark of like
this season, right is a guy that's around thirty total touchdowns,
but I don't know if it's gonna be eighteen. But
I think the biggest worry that it's not even the
nerd stuff, Like obviously there's been a lot of recent studies,

(01:49:15):
you know, just to explain to people what Alex is
talking about, Like, there's been a lot of recent studies
in nerdom world about turnovers and how backbreaking are they
really and how important are they really? Obviously nobody wants
to turn the ball over, right like that, don't do that.
Nobody wants to turn the ball over.

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
Saying they're okay is very close to wanting it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
They're not saying it's okay. They're saying that. The old
coach speak is turnovers lose football games. Turnovers are are catastrophe.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
They do. There's no stat what is it? There's no
stat more indicative of wins and losses other besides final
score than turnover margin.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
Except passing EPA, which is a real stat, which is
what we're gonna go.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
Or did the nerds make up that stat because this
is what they do. All right, we really like Josh Allen,
but he's turning the ball over a lot. Let's pull
some formula out of thin air the sizes turnovers. This
all started happening with Josh Allen and a couple other
quarterbacks too. But like, they wanted to downplay the turnovers
so they could say that the guys they liked, so

(01:50:24):
some of them. So they created a formula that downplay
turnovers and said, see, look.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
Some of the things that they looked at. Uh, passing
EPA is probably the biggest one. And Ben Johnson has
famously said the most important stat other than the scores,
passing game EPAU, Passing game EPA is the big one.
Explosive plays is the other big one.

Speaker 1 (01:50:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
It's now been determined that essentially one explosive play a
drive is a scoring drive, to is a touchdown drive
on on the whole. Uh, you know, in terms of averages.
So what I'm getting at where we're all driving at
here in terms of all this is is it better
to hunt the explosives and hunt the efficiency and not

(01:51:09):
put as much emphasis on protecting the football as it is?
You know, the callers point like if Drake May has
a season, you know, Josh Allen's second season in the
NFL was twenty to nine. It's it's just so you
can sit there and say, only threw nine picks. That's
really good, but he also didn't have the upward of
the ceiling of the eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:51:27):
I just think it's so context dependent. What kind of
offense do you have, what are you trying to accomplish,
what kind of players do you have around you? Like,
I don't think there is a definitive answer to that,
because there's so many other variables. Here's the way i'd
put it. What would be more encouraging to you, Evan,
Drake May is and we're going to extremes here, but
like you all understand, we're going with this. Yeah, Drake

(01:51:49):
May is a top ten to fifteen quarterback, but the
Patriots finished top five in offense. Or Drake May is
a top five quarterback, but the Patriots finished top ten
to fifteen in scoring offense.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
So basically justin Herbert, because that's justin Herbert, Like you
can aesthetically say, Justin Herbert, it's like a top five
quarterback in the league, but maybe last year they crept
on but he enough, But that's justin Herbert.

Speaker 1 (01:52:14):
Don't use it nerd number here. I'm specifically talking about points,
because the idea being if Drake May is getting them
into scoring opportunities regularly, even if he's not directly responsible
for the scoring play itself, Yeah, that's more encouraging than
all right, well, Drake May threw a bunch of touchdowns,
but they didn't really have anything going besides that. I

(01:52:35):
have to see how I guess it's tough to because
like if it's man, what I'm saying, Yeah, like if
it's Mac Jones's rookie season, then I'm not I'm not.
I don't want That's kind of what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
I don't want to turn Drake May into that. And
that's my I'm not saying turn him into I'm not
saying that's my fear of like overstressing.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
I'm not saying the approach. I'm not saying necessarily that's
the internal approach. Let's just say it falls that way,
going the way that they want to go about it.

Speaker 2 (01:52:57):
My concern is and I'm not saying this is going
to happen, Yeah, I'm just saying, like, my concern with
this conversation is that they are going to put kid
gloves on him and put him on you know, training wheel.

Speaker 1 (01:53:10):
It's not even kid gloves, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:53:12):
They are gonna I don't want them to over emphasize
you cannot turn the ball over in uh trade for playmaking,
Like I'd rather him turn the ball over a little
bit more than you would like, but still make the
high end plays. But that that, again, is that's not even.

Speaker 1 (01:53:29):
Me really my point. I guess, Okay, so in what
year is this in twenty This is a bad cop
that I'm gonna make.

Speaker 2 (01:53:38):
It's Matt Johns's rookie season. Matt John's rooky season. They
were a top ten scoring offense, but they weren't an explosive.

Speaker 1 (01:53:43):
So it's more like this in twenty sixteen, right, Yeah,
and I'm gonna take turnovers out of it because he
was insane that year. But like Tom Brady threw twenty
eight touchdowns in twenty sixteen, that's as far as Tom
Brady goes a relatively pedestrian year, twenty eight touchdowns. They
still ran third in offense. Why le Garrett Blunt had
eighteen rushing touchdowns, Yeah, because they just got inside the

(01:54:06):
five all the time and hammered a home. That was
the year that like James White kept taking screens getting
pushed out of bounds at the two yard line. That
happened like seven or eight times something if I'm remembering correctly.
So like if it's like if Drake May throws twenty
touchdowns but they run for another twenty, Drake May played fine.

Speaker 2 (01:54:24):
But you have to remember and this is we can
move on after this. But like he's a playmaker, Drake
May is, He's a playman. I don't need it back.

Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
But here's my point, I don't even be a playmaker
inside the five. Run the run, the balling.

Speaker 2 (01:54:36):
No, I'm not even with him, but I'm just saying,
like you can't. He's a gun slinger, he's a playmaker.
Like that's the type of quarterback they drafted. They drafted
Josh Allen, they didn't draft Tom Brady. So like, if
you're gonna get him to the point where he's a
winning player like Josh Allen is now, you have to
let him make the mistakes because if you try to
rein him in and you try to limit, you know,

(01:54:58):
the suppressed the turnovers, that is also going to suppress
the playmaks.

Speaker 1 (01:55:04):
I just think we're making different arguments. I think they're
going to be more run heavy than they've been in
the past in the red zone, which is going to
impact his passing touchdown number. So I'm not looking at
that number as indicative and success, looking.

Speaker 2 (01:55:18):
At like the play style of the offense right exactly.
I would rather then allow him, like Josh Allen has,
like to figure it out as he goes here, to
get that turnover number down to the point where in
three or four years from now he is playing at
an MVP level. Then to try to suppress both, because
what they're gonna end up doing is if you say
to him, we like, we can't turn the ball over.

(01:55:41):
That's emphasis number one is don't turn the ball over.
He's not gonna make that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:45):
But you also can't be afraid when there are bad
turnovers to do things to correct him.

Speaker 2 (01:55:50):
Sure, all right, Uh, Eldred is in North Carolina? What's up?
Eldred to horn?

Speaker 6 (01:55:58):
But I'm in the parking lot without everybody, and I
can't do that. One ain't going down.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
Now, Okay, question Evan, Yes, sir, I.

Speaker 6 (01:56:07):
Man, and I would love to see you and bark
go ahad it. And like said, I've been playing Man
for about thirty seven years now and I still play
it and I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:56:15):
Sixty three.

Speaker 6 (01:56:17):
Still play Well, Uh yeah, I would try that. And
my question is, I'm like everybody else about Matt Hollins,
and I'm hopefully that one of the young guys maybe
they give jun jobs or shot at it, you know,
at the ax. But you keep thinking the is just
gonna be a sacrifice dummy, just run down the because

(01:56:38):
I'm pretty sure, uh, he ain't gonna keep doing that,
like the like the Brady outfit, he got to throw
a deep sometimes because Drake got the Army throw deep too,
and I take it off the air. Thanks Eelas, you
have a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:56:49):
Thanks Elger, Thanks for the call. Yeah, I definitely think
that that's say, uh something that you know Drake. Not
that Brady was a bad deep all thrower by any means,
but that's a strength of Drake that maybe wasn't a
strength of Max game as much that with Josh McDaniel's
in this offense, Like you want to see more of
those down to field drows, no doubt about it. And maybe,

(01:57:09):
uh maybe maybe that X receiver gets a little bit
more volume because of that. It's definitely possible. All Right,
our last call here, Todd is in Gardner. What's up Todd?

Speaker 3 (01:57:20):
Hey, guys, I got just a quick question for you,
and I'll give you my answer before I get off
there and take it. So, I'm wondering who's gonna mature
first into their into what they're going to be, the
defense or the offense. And I think it's gonna be
the offense because I think Drake. This is Drake May's
second year and there. I think with Josh McDaniels can
take what he's got and they'll be able to You'll

(01:57:42):
see the offense come into and thrown before the defense,
because I think the defense has got a lot of
new parts, a whole new identity they're trying to bring in,
and these guys haven't played before and it's together, and
I I just I don't know. Something just doesn't feel
like it's gonna come quickly. I'm not gonna say it's
not gonna come. I just feel like it's gonna take
more time to get the style of defense that Brabill
wants in place. What do you guys think?

Speaker 2 (01:58:04):
Thank you, that's a good question, Todd. So historically defense
is ahead of offense, right think, just in terms of training,
camp and all that kind of stuff. And I do
kind of lean a little bit towards defense just because,
for one, I still think their talent on the roster
is better on defense for now than it is on offense.
Until we see some of these rookies play and maybe

(01:58:24):
you know, Campbell and Kyle Williams and Trevon Henderson improve
the talent level of the offense beyond what it is now.
But until I see that happen. I still think the
defense is a little bit more veteran and a little
bit more established talent on that side. It's also Rabel's
side of the ball, So like, I lean a little
bit more towards defense, just because historically that's that's what
comes faster to most teams. But with McDaniels, like, it's

(01:58:47):
a big learning curve for a lot of young players.
On offense, it's a tough offense to grasp. It's a
young quarterback and another system. Your two different system. I
could see there being some growing pains on offense.

Speaker 1 (01:58:59):
Yeah, I think the defense one has more veteran players,
like you said, and also what you know in terms
of what they're going to become. I think more of
the long term personnel more. The core is built on
defense than offense. Yes, you have the quarterback on offense,
it's monumentally important. But on defense, you know, Christian Barmore,
Keon White's hopefully a part of this obviously, Christian Zalz

(01:59:20):
I know, kind of on the fringe, but you know,
Kyle Dugart's not old. He's not young, but he's not old.

Speaker 3 (01:59:24):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:25):
On offense, you have Drake May, you have Will Campbell,
Kyle Williams. I think ideally long term is your wide
receiver two, right, I still think they're going to make
a big splash at receiver one, if not two. Spots
on the offensive line are still going to turn over?
Are they committed to Mandre Stevenson long termers? There are
another back coming in with Trevon Henderson. What's how long

(01:59:45):
is Hunter Henry's runway? Like, I think the offense is
still going to change a lot around Drake, maybe between
now and when he gets into his prime at twenty six,
twenty seven, twenty eight years old.

Speaker 2 (01:59:55):
Yeah, I'd still I feel the same way. Yeah, that's
ultimately what it is is defense. I just feel like
they have more established players and like an NFL established like, yeah,
we know Christian Gonzales, we know Carlton Davis, we know
what Milan Williams is, we know what Barmore is when
he's healthy. We even know what a guy like Robert
Splaine is going to bring, you know, to the defensive
side of the ball. Offensively, I still think that you're

(02:00:18):
really hoping that the young talent Drake May, Will Campbell,
Kyle Williams, Traveon Henderson, maybe the guys from you know,
the twenty twenty four draft, like you're still hoping that
that young talent is gonna elevate your ceiling, and it's
kind of a little bit of a mystery of that
if that's going to happen or not. I don't necessarily
feel the exact that really with the defense, like even

(02:00:41):
defensively and we did today with the safeties like Peppers
and Kyle Duggar are NFL players, like I don't know
if they're great NFL players, are elite NFL players, but
we've seen them play at a starting caliber clip in
the past. We've never seen Kyle Williams be a starting
ex receiver in the NFL. I hope he's a great one,
but we've never seen it happen. So that's where that is.
It's a good question by Todd there at the end.

(02:01:04):
I'm not gonna you know, there's some Celtics questions in
the emails, but I'm gonna let it go because it's
two o'clock. We gotta cut it off. But I'm not
trading Jalen Brown. There was too many questions, too much
of that going on. But we'll be back next week.
I think we're getting to an OTA right next week,
I don't remember what.

Speaker 1 (02:01:21):
Day it's I think Tuesday, Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
Yeah, so hopefully we'll have an ota to talk about.
We'll obviously have the schedule officially to discuss as well,
and then we'll talk about the schedule plenty tomorrow on
Patriots Unfiltered, and Alex will be on the Sports Up
I'm sure as well to get schedule takes.

Speaker 1 (02:01:37):
So live show tonight starting at seven to fifty.

Speaker 2 (02:01:39):
There you go, So we'll have plenty of schedule takes,
but today stuck to Mini caamp and the roster reset.
So thanks for all the calls and emails there at
the end. I'm glad we were able to get to
all you guys, and we'll see you guys next week.
Thanks for watching. Hey this is Alex. Thanks for tuning
into the show.

Speaker 1 (02:01:57):
If you really want to help us, make sure you
like us on.

Speaker 2 (02:01:59):
Apple, podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Also
make sure you follow us on the New

Speaker 5 (02:02:04):
England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and everything
else we do here at the Patriots means a lot

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