Patriots Catch-22 6/4: OTA Observations, David Andrews Retirement Ceremony, Minicamp Preview

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Barth. Everybody Nailed It, joined us always
by Alex Barth. Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barth. So
this is.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
A very long email from Robert, very well thought out. Robert. I,
I apologize that I can't read.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
The whole email.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
So the summarization of this email is about a concept
that you and I have kicked around many times on
the show, about an NFL developmental lead. But we have
this concept nailed, so we're available. We will come in
and we will tell you. We will lay you, lay
it out for you and tell you exactly how this
can be done. We are the sickos that on a

(00:57):
random day in March when the Spring League is going on,
the two of us have this nails like, we know
exactly what needs to be done, we know exactly how
to get there. Maybe we need some suits, some lawyers
to come in and help us, like figure out the
injury settlements and all that good stuff. So we have
this concept nailed, so we're available. Hello, everybody, We're we

(01:18):
are always available always. Evan Lazarre and Alex bart Patriots
Catch twenty two. Here with you for the next couple
of hours. Alex behind the glass as well. It's Alex,
Alex and Evan. Were all too many alex Is around
me right now. I need to have nicknames or something.
But let's get Alex Francs going here. Oh yeah, we
can have an Alex off. Who's the best Alex that

(01:41):
is connected to Patriots dot com? Not all of you know,
all the way for some of us over there, but connected. Anyways,
we are going to get into Patriots OTAs. On Monday,
we were out at OTAs, so we'll discuss Drake may
Stefan Diggs being at Patriots practice. I also want to
touch on after we do the OTA observations, I want

(02:04):
to touch on David Andrews retirement ceremony, which we were
both at, which I thought was just a really awesome event,
awesome forty five minutes or so there celebrating the career
of David Andrews. But I want to start with OTAs,
and I know that's what everybody's really on their minds.
We're going to get the digs and how he looked
at practice yesterday, but the place I want to start

(02:26):
was what I thought was Drake May's best practice of
the spring. And I understand that that kind of sounds crazy,
like we're grading every single practice in spring. Can I
get if you sit here and say, relax, right, it's May,
it's June. How much does this stuff really matter? But

(02:48):
just looking at it through what we saw out there
on Monday, Alex I felt like Drake looked the most
comfortable that he has in the three practices that we've seen,
and we started to see some of those high level
throws that we saw from him last year on a
couple of plays, and then he had a real run

(03:08):
of eight or nine completions in a row at one
point where he looked really sharp throughout team drills. So
we started the show in the last two weeks about
maybe a learning curve or or some developmental things going
on with Drake May in this offense. I thought it
was only fair to start with the fact that he
had a good practice the other day and showed some

(03:29):
signs of progress within the framework of this system.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, and this is where you know it's tough because
it's not linear. It'll be linear from here on out.
We'll see three mini caamp practices next week and then
it's on a training camp at the end of July,
so they won't practice again without us there to some
extent for the rest of the season. Yeah, but you know,
it's tough to say, yeah, he's making progress, he's building
towards something, just because you know, we didn't see what

(03:53):
happened in between the practices they've had one. They had
one since then. I think again today right as their
last ota. Yeah, they had one yesterday and today. I
might be tomorrow. I don't think they have three days
in a row. Okay, they might be tomorrow then, but
like they'll have one more. So you know, it's it.
You can't say definitively like he's moving training in the

(04:13):
right direction, but in front of us, he's training in
the right direction. Yeah, and that's what you want to
see this time of year. It's just about progress, it's
just about getting better. And again, I can't say for
sure yesterday was his best practice of the spring in total,
because we haven't seen all of them. It'd be hard
to imagine he did better than that. That's exactly what
you wanted to look like in the spring. They were
moving to smooth operation in and out of the huddle,

(04:33):
no wasted time at the line of scrimmage, ball's not
hitting the ground smooth, smooth and comfortable, is the best
way I could put it.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, I think there's always when with all these practices,
we're watching the practice, but we're not hearing the practice,
and we don't know the practice script. So there's always
questions in my back of my mind that I try
to keep in mind about. We don't know what's being
coached right. We don't know if they're in the middle
of a period where they're doing a lot of you know,

(05:03):
short yardage third down stuff and that's why the ball
is not getting pushed down the field, or they're telling
the defense, hey, let's let's stay off the quarterback here
in terms of the pass rush, and let's tone it
down a bit so that we can get some true
passing in here without the effect of him having to
you know, take a sack or what have you. So

(05:23):
you never know any of those types of context is
but a couple.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
The interesting thing yesterday was Josh McDaniels told us they
were going to be running some stuff they hadn't done before,
so we know there was at least and I think
that's a lot of spring practices, so maybe it's not
that big of a deal, but like that element was
in play.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I made that point yesterday on Unfiltered, and I
think it's it's also another piece of context to this.
When you practice against the same defense over and over again,
and both sides are practicing right now, they're basic installation,
like they're foundation of their offense and defensive schemes and systems.
So when you practice week in and week out and

(06:01):
you're now on practice number six, seven, eight nine of
OTAs and things like that, when you have veteran players
and good players on the defensive side, they start to
recognize plays and they start to kind of cheat plays
a little bit. I thought last week when we were
out at practice that Robert Splaine just was all over
several plays that they were running, and it dawned on

(06:22):
me and I thought, maybe, Okay, he might just he's
a really good processor and a really good play diagnoser,
so maybe he just has seen this play run like
six times already and he's like, all right, you're not
gonna get me this time on this. So the element
of Josh McDaniel's telling us before practice that he was
going to call some plays they haven't run yet in practice.

(06:44):
Was not lost on me because maybe that uncertainty, you know,
kind of put a little bit of doubt in the
defense right where the defense didn't know exactly what was coming,
like they might have been prior practices. So that's a
factor of it too, But just in an individual throw basis,
what I thought was most I guess encouraging about Drake
May was that when Drake May is at his best,

(07:08):
he's just ripping it right. There's not a lot of
thought that's going into his throws. There's not a lot
of hesitation. You know, Greg Bdard talks a lot about
the hitch or you know, the kind of double pump
if you will, Like, you don't see any of that.
You just see him playing free, playing loose and letting
it rip. And then also on top of that, you
see a lot of the extra quarterback stuff like coverage manipulation,

(07:31):
you know, pumping the safety off or moving somebody with
his eyes, or throwing off platform obviously you know, extending
the play, throwing off platform. And I thought a couple
of the throws that were really stand out throws to
me had all of those elements and that's when I
know that Drake May's feeling it like, that's when he's
in the groove. So the whole shot to Kishan Boudi

(07:53):
on the corner route right, that's he eats up cover
two and they play that coverage and you have the
split safeties in the corner underneath. He's gonna pump off
the corner underneath and then he's gonna rip.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
The whole shot.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
And he did that exact thing to Kishan Boudi on
that play, and I said, you know that that the rhythm,
the timing, even the manipulation, like all that is Drake
May when he's at his best, when he's the most comfortable.
The wheel route to Hermandra Stevenson, little off platform, you move
to the left, drop down the arm, angle a little bit,
and just rip it like that. Those are the types

(08:27):
of plays that you see him make that you you
really are excited about in terms of his future in
this league. So those were the couple that stood out
to me as sort of like the highlight plays of
the day for him. But all those throws again or
getting back to this playmaker mode of Drake May and
what he's able to do from the pocket and manipulating

(08:51):
coverage and moving coverage with his eyes or pump fakes
or body language, and you know, being able to throw
off platform and make plays off platform. That's what the
Patriots have when he is at his best. And so
that was very encouraging to see. And I have another
thought on that, But what were some of the things
that stood out to you just specifically about his day.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, again, I'll go back to what I said before.
I just think he looked more comfortable. Right. We talked
in the last show about just a little hesitation, you know,
was he totally comfortable with what he was looking at
and all that, And this just felt more picking up
where he left off. It didn't feel that's what was
so surprising about McDaniels. For practicing, they're running some new things,

(09:34):
none of that felt new. Yeah, you know, if McDaniels
hadn't say that said that, I might be sitting here saying, well,
you know, it helped out for Drake May that it
seemed like they were doing a lot of stuff he
was comfortable with because he looked and you know, maybe
he's comfortable with the new stuff, but he looked very
comfortable with all of it. So I just think is
he we know, he's more of a like that that

(09:54):
Josh Allen type. Right, He's just gonna kind of see
and go. He's not somebody that's going to compute all
the different things and it's just sort of read and
react to it. And I think he was more in
that mode in playing more free and was more of
that had more that gunslinger mentality as much you can
have in a spring practice. Granted, I think he was
playing more with that mentality, which he's in his comfort

(10:16):
zone when he's doing that, which is good. This was
part of the worry about Josh McDaniel's offense and people
worrying with the Brady offense, right, are they going to
tailor it too much to that and take away some
of what Drake may does. Well, this was him being
able to do what he wants to do, what he
does best in the context of that offense.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
So I think that's an important point of all this.
And there was a lot of talk before practice with
the assistant coaches and then you know that carried into
practice about these new wrinkles that the Patriots are supposedly
adding into this offense. And it should be said that
this is the foundation of this scheme is still the
Josh McDaniels playbook, right, that is the roots of the

(10:54):
of the offense. But they have a lot of they
have a melting pot. They really have a melting pot
of coaches that have been in different systems and have
been in different places that they can pull from and
pull ideas from. I think chief among them being Thomas Brown,
who's got that pass game coordinator title as well as
being the tight ends coach, and he comes from Sean
mcvay's tree. He also coached under Frank Reich as well,

(11:16):
who's West Coast oriented. Different branches of the West Coast offense,
and I was really curious to see as we get
into the season, like which fork did they go down,
Like which path did they go down within the West
Coast tree, Because you have the West Coast offense going
all the way back to like Bill Walsh in the
forty nine ers in the eighties. But then you have
like the traditional West Coast coaches, which is what Alex

(11:39):
van Pelt was part of, you know, Mike Holmgre and
Alex van Pelt, Mike McCarthy, those types of guys. Then
you have the Shanahan tree of the West Coast offense.
You know, Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan of course at the top,
Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Mike McDaniel, all those guys, anybody
I've yelled about life. Yeah, and you have the Andy

(12:02):
Reid iteration of this offense, which has really been called
you know, Michael Lombardi always calls it like West Coast College, Right,
it's really a a more air it's adaptive of the
air raid and in the West Coast offense kind of
coming together to fit the quarterbacks of today. And Frank
Reich is obviously offshot on that Andy Reid tree. So

(12:22):
all these guys are connected in that they speak similar languages,
and they have similar core philosophies of how they want
to move the football. But they all have a little
bit of twist on all of their versions. And you
know there's North Turner two, which is a whole Kevin
O'Connell and whatever.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
So like the Kevin O'Connell wan the best.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, So the Kevin O'Connell one is a similar I
would say to the Shanahan tree. I think there's a
lot of similarities. But what I'm getting at is is
the the West Coast College the West Coast you know,
mash with the air Raid is, in my opinion, where
I would rather see them go with Drake May which
is what you know, Patrick Mahomes is obviously running in

(13:02):
Kansas City. They're running a version of it in Philadelphia
with Jalen Hurts, and that The main reasons are one,
it does a nice job of using the quarterback's mobility
to leverage the defense. So whether it's RPOs you know,
read options in the case of Philadelphia, and just in general,
just using the quarterback as a guy that you have

(13:24):
to account for. The Other reason why I really liked
that part of the tree for Drake specifically is that
it's predominantly shotgun.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
And I didn't break down.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
His plays on Monday based off of under center verus
shotgun splits. I didn't get that into it, but last
year as a rookie, there is no doubt that there
was a split between shotgun and under center. That makes sense.
He didn't really play much at all under center in college,
and I bet you he didn't do it much in
high school either, because you just don't do it at
the high school and college level as much as they

(13:57):
used to. So what I'm getting at is that Tree
is gonna be like eighty to eighty five percent shotgun.
And I'm talking mostly about neutral situations like fourth quarter,
end of game and you're just trying to run out
the clock. Everybody is gonna probably be under center when
that happens. But when when we're talking about, you know,

(14:19):
in the middle of the game, when the game is
being decided, you know, Philadelphia is like eighty five ninety
percent under center or excuse me, shotgun. And when they
go under center, it's because they're doing the push push,
it's not because they're actually running a you know, a
playbook from under center. Now, when we talk to the
coaches and then some of the reporting that I've seen

(14:40):
from other people on the beat about where they might
be going, it sounds more like they're trying to put
in McVay style stuff. Now McVeigh style stuff would be
under center, wide zone duo runs from under center with
boots and motion of course, you know, motion at the

(15:02):
snap of jet motion, things like that. So if that's
where they end up going with it, and again I'm
not saying that it is or is and it's just
speculating here. If that's the way that they end up
going with it, he's gonna be under center a lot more.
And Josh McDaniels has notoriously been under center a lot more,
just in his career as an offensive coach. So I'm

(15:24):
interested to see where that goes. Like, I'm not concerned
that it's not gonna go well. I just I'm not
certain that it's gonna go well, and so we'll see
what happens.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Now.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
I'm encouraged by the fact that maybe you know, Boots,
I think would be good for him. I think that
he's got great athleticism, a great ability to throw on
the run. You get him outside the pocket, which helps
the offensive line. Now you're not traditionally past blocking all
the time too, so that makes it easier in theory
to protect the quarterback if you can sell it, and

(15:55):
he can pick up yards with his legs himself if
there's nothing open down the field, and just eat up
the underneath stuff. So you almost don't even need to
put a guy in the flat because he kind of
is the flat, right, He's going to influence the flat
defender to take him.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
It keeps teams honest in the run game too. Yeah,
they're still gonna be running the ball one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
So if the plan is wide zone boot and trying
to do that, I look, they've been trying to do
that since twenty twenty two and failed. They've been trying
to run a wide zone boot scheme or incorporate more
of that stuff for eons, like it feels like, but
maybe they can kind of get it done this time
with the coaches that they have on staff, with McDaniels,

(16:36):
and be able to pull it off this time. So
we'll see. But that that's where I think, you know,
everybody's sort of guessing that they're going is more towards
that McVeigh influence and being under center and using motion
to undress the defense and manipulate the defense, and then
you know, having boot legs and half boots and all

(16:57):
that good stuff. But I do kind of hope that
they they don't completely ignore some of the stuff that
Thomas Brown could bring in from the Frank Reich school. Sure,
and you know some of that stuff as well, from
the gun runs and the RPOs and and things of
that good nature. So we'll see, you know, they have
to put it on film first, I think you know,

(17:18):
watching these practices, you can glean some of the things
that they're gonna do schematically, but it never really takes
hold until you can break it down on tape and
see exactly what they're doing. So, right, do you have
any other thoughts on that or should we move on
to the next thing.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think you covered it. Okay, I'll just say this
because we do this every year, we have this conversation
and it's probably not going to go anywhere, but I'll
do my part and say it pistol pistol, Like that's
the happy medium between under center.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
And chock gun pistol. So we brought it incorporate some pistol. Sure,
and we've talked about the pistol a lot, and the
coach that one of the coaches you hate. Really what
I think is probably Mike McDaniel's best what's the word
like schematic twist is that he took the Kyle Shanahan
offense and adapted it to fit TUA by running all

(18:09):
of the same concepts that they run in the Shanahan
offense from the pistol.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
I've never said Mike McDaniel is not a good offense
coordinator because I think he is. Yeah, I just don't
think he's a good head coach, fair enough, but he
So this goes in the offense coordinator.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Get him because Tua is not as comfortable under center.
He's also a shorter quarterback, so that hurts him from
under center as well. So they run all of the
same actions, wide zone boots things like that, but they
run it from the pistol with the quarterback and then
the running back directly behind the quarterback. And they do
a little sidecar stuff too with the full back right next.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
To the Q. Get in like sort full house. Yeah. Yeah,
Which if you're gonna have Spencer Larsen at Spencer Larson, Wow,
that's a throwback.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I don't know where that came from.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
When was he the full back like two thousand and six?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, I don't know. You're talking about Brock Lampy.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Lampy, thank you. Yes, if you're gonna Brock Lampy or
maybe even jaheem Bell and like those guys are gonna
p a role on the offense like that's or even
Land Larrison, who's he's not a full backsize, he's a
bigger running back and can embrace the physicality yeah, you
could have a lot of fun with those pistols, sort
of mini full house.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yes, yeah, I'm all for the pistol, you know that.
But my whole thing, and I know we've talked about
this at nauseum and people I.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Spencer Larson has not been on the Patriots since twenty twelve.
He hasn't played in the NFL since twenty thirteen. Well
you got Spencer Larson on your mind. I don't apparently,
I don't know where that came from. If anything, I
thought i'd say a long snapper, so I he didn't
even play a game here.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
You're just in Madden mode over there, I think is No,
it's not even related. I don't know where that came from.
A million texts about this new Madden thing, Madden thing.
We'll get to that maybe, yeah, in the second hour.
But what was like going must have been a number
forty six thing. The last thing I was gonna say
about the pistol.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
We're talking about the full house. So yeah, you know,
with the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
And I feel like I'm in the minority when it
comes to designing ways for Drake May to run. I
don't think a lot of people want to do that.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
He got banged up a little bit last year. At times,
he's the franchise. People want to be careful with him.
But the big reason why I continue to be in
the minority on that point is that I don't think
that you're gonna max Drake may out unless you let
him run around a little bit. I truly don't, and
I don't want to turn him into Lamar Jackson.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
No. So that's the thing I'm not totally anti. Don't
confuse the people who say he shouldn't run and you
shouldn't have designed runs with You got to be careful
about how much you run him, because those are two
different things. They do need to run him designed a
bit because that's just that's just the game now. And yeah,

(20:50):
you have it's a huge benefit if you have that
quarterback run element in your back. But and then you've
heard me talk about this with Josh Allen all the time,
like there's an equilibrium. Yeah, you don't want to run
him so little that you lose that chess piece in
that factor that has keeped the defense honest. But you
don't want to run him so much that he's getting
banged up and he's becoming less of a player both

(21:11):
as a runner and a passer.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
And it's not easy.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
There's no like thirty carries boom like, there's no exact
number from game to game, season to season that defines that.
I think it's really one of the harder things for
an offense coordinator and a team to figure out. But
the Patriots, now one of these teams is going to
kind of have to find that equilibrium. And there might
not be one there honestly might not be one, but
they're gonna be one of the teams now with Drake
may just like the Bill's been doing for years with

(21:34):
Josh Allen, that has to find that.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
So I'm not advocating for Drake made to be them
designing runs for him a ton in the open field
like between the twenties, as part of like the core
tenants of their offense like a Baltimore and Lamar Jackson,
not even like readoption stuff. I would be okay with
that from the gun, But I'm not saying that I
want him to run the ball like one hundred times

(21:57):
a year, right like Cam Newton did in twenty twenty,
asking for that. But the things that I think are
important for him to incorporate his legs on are short yardage,
high leverage situations, right third down and two third down
and one goal line. You know, those are the types
of things that just having the quarterback account for somebody

(22:18):
or the defense have to account for the quarterback in
some capacity, just as it's such a schematic advantage to
the offense that makes it so difficult to defend you
that I you kind of have to do it if
you have that ability as the quarterback. Like if you
don't have a mobile quarterback, then obviously you're not going
to do it. You know, if you have Kirk Cousins,
you're not going to be running zone reads on the

(22:39):
goal line. But with a guy like Drake May, you
absolutely can. And the only time that he keeps is
when it's like a clear path to the end zone
and ideally he's not even getting hit, right, he's just
waltzing into the end zone like he did in the preseason.
I think that was what Week two of the preseason
last year where he scored that rushing touchdown and he
just kind of waltzed into.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
The end zone. He had one of the regular season
two did he was it against Houston? He had one
last year he was in the throwbacks. Okay, I remember that,
I'll pull it up. But so, and that's just what
we're on. The drake may like another thing they can
do and maybe this isn't the setting to do it.
Figure out what his I don't even know what probably
is a technical phrase for it, but like how he's

(23:19):
gonna terminate his runs right and ideally if he's by
the sideline, he gets the sideline, or if he can score,
he scores. But like is gonna because we went through
this last year where like is sliding the best thing
because in the action of the slide, you leave yourself exposed,
even if you're giving yourself up.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
And yeah, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
A penalty people like diving for like head first, right
you can talk and cover and like kind of figuring
out how they want him to do that is something
else that should be on the to do list this offseason. Absolutely,
all right, let's move on.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
The next thing I wanted to talk about here on
the Old Rundown is Stefan Diggs being out at Patriots
practice on Monday. Our first look at Stefan Diggs out
of Patriot practice, and I gotta say I'm excited I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
How can you not be excited watching a receiver of
that caliber in a Patriot uniform in a Patriot practice,
even though it was against air. Catching passes from Drake
may on routes against air is still something that we
haven't seen yet and I was really excited.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Thing.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
The two things that stand out are obviously how far
along he is physically, and you know, we don't have
any inside information on truly what his timeline is or
anything like that, but he based off of what we've
seen from other players, and the one that we a
lot of people have gone back and compared it to
because its recent is Kendrick Bourne's recovery from his ACL

(24:42):
a couple of years ago. And Kendrick Bourne tore his
ACL in October. Stefond Day to his ACL in October,
so it's like kind of the same exact timeline. And
we never saw Kendrick Bourne in a practice until he
was on the field on a game.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Like you.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
He was out there in a T shirt and shorts,
just kind of walking around. Yeah, we never saw him
do positional drills. We never saw him do jogg thrus. Obviously,
Stefan Diggs did not do team periods, but this is
already further along than a lot of guys that we've
seen in our experience on the Beat Beat at this point.

(25:23):
And again, I don't want to put necessarily put timelines
on it, but I can't help but feeling like his
goal of being back for week one is not totally
out of sight. Like when you look at him moving,
there might be a little bit still of like his
gait is like maybe a little bit of a limp,
like it's not one hundred percent yet, But he was
looking really good. I mean the routes he was running.

(25:43):
When he was actually running the route, he was looking explosive,
he was looking fast. And the other thing that stood
out to me is just the type of swagger and
confidence that a true superstar receiver like Stefan Diggs brings
to a practice and brings that kind of two at practice.
They haven't had a guy like that in quite some
time that comes on the field and is like all right,

(26:06):
like you know the alpha is here right, like that
sort of thing. And I know he's older, I know
he's coming off the injury, but this was extremely exciting
to me to watch this unfold and the fact that
they're already getting him into some of these walkthroughs. Tells
me that they're thinking that maybe this timeline is going

(26:26):
to be you know, accelerated compared to other ACL recoveries
as well, because other you know, they're trying to get
him in on the plates, right, they want to get
him running and get him in on the places. So
what did you see from Stefan Diggs? I was super
excited about what I saw.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, I mean you hit on a lot of it,
just the way he was moving. And this was the
big unknown when they signed him, was this is a
guy that's what thirty one years old right coming off
of torn ACL. You don't know if he's gonna look
the same and what's the timeline look like. And he
didn't do any of the competitive team stuff, right, He
did individual positional stuff. He did some of that walk

(27:03):
through stuff that was offensive'us defense and that was it.
And then he was over on that side field with
Jalen Polk was also rehabbing. But like for for what
he did, I don't want to say he was full
go because he didn't do every drill, but when he
was on the field, like it looked like he was
running one hundred percent and planting and cutting one hundred percent.
Like in that sense, he looked good to go. Clearly

(27:23):
there's some other checkpoints he has to hit, which isn't
surprising given the timeline. Like you mentioned to, Mike g
already reported yesterday that he's still not one hundred percent.
He hasn't been fully cleared, which is what we saw.
But if he's doing that now, can he start to
be involved in some of the team stuff in camp. Yeah,
and if he can do that well, now week ones

(27:45):
realistic because he'll be on the same page as Drake
may because that's part of.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
With Kendrick Porne too. Last year, remember is it wanted
some lead up time? Yeah, it was game shape, it
was up time, that sort of saying. It wasn't that
he wasn't structurally healthy, He just wasn't.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
He wasn't football. It wasn't in football shape. So if
that's something Digs can work out and camp now week
ones on the table.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
So look, I don't know what the inside his knee
looks like.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
I haven't seen the X ray. I'm not a doctor.
I wouldn't know what to make of it if I did.
But just the way he's moving out there. You usually
don't see guys that recently off in ACL moving like that,
so you have to figure that he's ahead of schedule.
And Kendrick Bourne last year, I think that the talk
and this was externally. We don't know exactly, but it
was kind of like he probably wouldn't have needed to

(28:31):
miss all four games he had a missed by opening
on PUP, but he would have missed a couple so
it just made more sense put him on PUP and
give him the ramp up time and like. And that's
not uncommon for guys coming off with torn ACL. But
let's say realistically, like Bourne could have gone in week
two or three, it looks like Diggs is more than
two or three weeks ahead of where Kendrick Bourne was.
Yeah so. And I don't think Bourne was slow by

(28:53):
any means in his return. That was about what everybody
was expecting. Yeah So's it was definitely encouraging just to
see how well Diggs was moving.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I really feel like Stefan Diggs and assuming that everything
goes well with him, you know, in terms of his
buying and things like that, I really feel like Stefan
Diggs is going to be a huge impact player for
this team based off of what we saw the other day.

(29:24):
I know it's only one practice, but I'm also basing
it off of what he looked like in Houston before
he got hurt last year, what he's looked like in
some of these videos that he's posted on social media
of his work, probably workouts away from the facility that
he's been doing to me, but you know, just off
the eye test, like he looks like Steffan Diggs, Like
he looks like a guy that is moving with purpose,

(29:46):
like explosive cuts in and out of breaks, you know,
changing directions on a dime, running routes, like the technician
that he has been in the past. And when you
start to think about the ways that he can be
used in a Josh McDaniel offense, and how they can
put him different spots in the formation, whether it's out
wide or in the slot, or in a bunch or
in a condensed split, or whatever the case may be,

(30:08):
they can find all these different ways to get him
off the line of scrimmage and into good matchups and
his whole career and even last year in Houston, he
was on pace for another one hundred catch season, he
was gonna have one hundred catches over a thousand yards
for the Texans last year before he got hurt. If
Stefan Diggs is healthy, Stefan Texas catching a hundred balls

(30:29):
like that's just that's the reality, especially in this offense. Yeah,
they're gonna use him the way we think they're gonna
use it. So I don't see any reason to believe
on you know, June fourth, which I get is were
ways away from actually playing games. If he's healthy, I
don't see any reason to believe that he's not going
to be one hundred balls like he is every other
year of his career. So that that's an extremely incouraged.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
The bigger question than me, And this goes more to
the structure of his knee because it's it's more yards
after the catch. He Oh yeah, he has caught a
hundred passes every yr going back for year in Buffalo.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, thousand yards.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, that's I think what we're because Edelman is still
the Patriots last thousand yard receiver, right, yep.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, eight hundred would be like Jacobe Myers, Kendrick Bourne.
I think a clip stayed on him like seven hundred
yeast year, right, yeah, last one thousand yard receiver is
Edelman in nineteen I think.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Is he also the last hundred cat allo?

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, I think that's definitely in play. Now I've said
it before with Diggs, I'll say it again. The one
thing that I would, you know, I think fans should
prepare for is that the Stefan Diggs towards the end
in Buffalo and the Stefan Diggs in Houston before he
got hurt last year was a possession receiver. This is
a middle of the field, first and second level possession receiver.

(31:40):
The days of him being like the explosive take the
top off the defense, you know, really take chunks out
of the defense type of guy. I don't know if
that is still his game, like I and that's not
a bad thing. It's just that he's gonna be the
chain mover, the engine, the possession guy in this offense
when he's healthy, and they've got to find and we

(32:01):
can talk about some other guys in that room like
we got. They got to find the explosive place like
they're gonna have to find that I think still someplace else.
Not saying that Diggs isn't gonna have any explosive places,
because I'm sure he'll have some, but that's not where
he was last year with Houston. It's not where he
was in his last season in Buffalo. You know, his
last year in Buffalo and last year in Houston. It's

(32:22):
you know, third and six, We're gonna find Stefon Diggs
over the middle for eight or nine yards like that.
That was his game and that's a ton of value
to have that kind of you know, safety net for
a quarterback. I'm not saying that there's no value in
that by any means, but just that that's the one
thing I would prepare for with Diggs.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
All right, die, here is this right, Julian Edelman. So,
Julian Edmind's the only got with one hundred catches since
I went back ten years, Yeah, twenty fourteen. He only
did it once in that span.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
I could believe that because you know, the Edelman had
some injury, right, So I went back twenty to fifteen.
He was probably on pace for his best season and
that's when he got hurt.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Right, So I went back to the year, so we
caught one hundred and thirteen. The ninety two sixty one
was fifteen. He got hurt. He had ninety eight in
twenty sixteen, So he was right there. Seventy four caught
one hundred and nineteen, and then he just caught twenty
one that last year. So they've only had one guy
catch one hundred balls in the last decade.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, that's crazy. But so Diggs maybe did James White
never did it.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
No, So James White I think peaked at seventy. Okay,
I have a James White adjacent take if you want
to talk about the running backs, but I want to
find a one thousand yard receivers first.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
What's your what's your take? I was the last thousand
yard receiver.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Edelman in nineteen, also Cooks in seventeen, Gronk and seventeen
Man that offense was awesome. Edelman in sixteen, Gronkin fifteen,
Gronkin fourteen.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Not to go on nostalgia and when we have stuff
to talk about, but the fact that we never got
to see Cooks, Gronk and Edelman on the field together
is such a bummer.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
They're just going to.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Ruin in my day right now. Well, that's what we're doing.
It's just such a bummer, like that offense. That offense
felt like it had I didn't say, oh, seven potential,
but like had the potential to be one of the
one of the better offenses of the entire twenty.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Eleven potential maybe, Yeah, like sevens off for twenty ten,
that's what I meant. Yeah, twenty ten. Yeah, I that's
that's one of my big second guests of the Dynasty.
And look, they obviously were very successful, but like.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Well, they literally won the Super Bowl the next.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Year with them. I know, I wish they kept Cooks, though.
I also just always really liked him as a player.
That's so I had a hot take at the time
because do you remember why the Saints traded Cooks Because
him and Michael Thomas were both upset and they were
getting the balling off, and they basically had a trade
one to meet the other happy. I said at the time,
they traded the wrong guy. And this was right at
the peak hype of slant Boy. Michael Thomas had just

(34:51):
caught like one hundred and thirty five Fastes or something like,
you're nuts, Brandon Cooks is just fast whatever. Yeah, in retrospect.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, if Brandon Cooks had a great Brandon.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Cooks had a much better career than Michael Thomas. Did.
Brandon Cooks was a very good player. He's still a
bad play ya, He's still had a bad player. Not
what he was, but he still had a bad player
as enough. Brandon Cook's reminiscing, but I'm always down to
do more if you guys want to call him talk
Brandon Cooks. James White peaked at eighty seven catches in
twenty eighteen seventy two the next year. So my take
on this is, I think a it's going to depend

(35:21):
how they split the snaps right and obviously health, but
looking at how they're using the running backs in the
spring and still early, but looking at how they're using
their running backs in the spring, not just who's out there,
but some of the formational stuff they're doing, the pairings
they're doing with these guys, I think a running back
finishes and I I'm not ready to say who, but

(35:42):
I think a running back finishes top three on the
team in catches this year, maybe even top two if
Diggs is fully healthy, Digs will be one. There's I
think there's a real chance of running back as second
most catches. And again you'll.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Definitely think there's a chance that Trayvon Anderson is.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
That Yeah, you look at the last couple of years
of Josh James Flight really kind of took over the
role in twenty sixteen sixty catches, fifty six, eighty seven,
seventy two, and then he was hurt the last two
years forty nine to twelve. But in the peak there's
anywhere from really sixty to seventy catches, and then got
up to eighty seven that one year. So my thing
with Henderson is like, how are they gonna split the carries?

(36:18):
Is gonna be on the field enough if it truly
is just Travion Henderson in the James White role. Yeah,
Travion Henderson's gonna be top three in the team catches
if he stays healthy.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
So there's two ways to look at what at this take.
The one way is in a positive that Trayvon Henderson
is a difference maker and they're just trying to find
ways to get him.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Before the balls. I think you're gonna there's two things
behind this take. That's one of them.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
The other one is is that we just drafted this
running back in the top of the second round and
we need to get him touches.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Oh no, there's another part of the takedown so that's
because I'm a worry ward Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
If the one thing that I worry about with Trayvon
Henderson and a little bit based off what we've seen
in these practices too, is that like the swing screen
in the flat to Travion Henderson is just gonna be
spammed all season long, whether it's working or not, because
they're trying to make Travon Henderson happen well like and
it brings me back a little bit to like John
and Smith in twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
So but like they've been good about it too, Like
they when Damien Harris, who was not picked his eye
as Travan Henderson was top one hundred pick like, when
it didn't work with him right away, they sat him.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Now they had other options. I'm not worried about it
not working because Henderson can't make it work.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
It's just are they just one of them one of
overdoing it?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
And like one of the little faults of Josh because
you know, I love McDaniels, but one of the little
faults that he has at times is you know, force
feeding targets and touches on like you know, the same
play screenplay.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Like yeah, ad time, So here's The thing with with
Henderson though, for me, like if you were just gonna
rank as his potential because a lot of these guys
we havent seen him yet. But like if you were
going to rank explosive playmaking ability, big place threat from
their skill position players, he's number one probably. I think
he's number one. I don't think he's number one, He's
up there. I really in terms of a guy that

(38:08):
has skill position, not running back skill position, So the
best skill on the team currently, that has the best
breaking express you know, the ability to tilt, you know,
flip the field right with his speed. Yeah, I would
say probably to be Travon Henderson.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, I'd put Pop ahead of him, But I mean maybe,
I mean tray Van Henderson hasn't played yet in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
That's part of it.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
If we're just going off of pure game breaking speed
and play in space, like I I.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Popped, you feel strong. So that was part of the
other reason I gave that take is like McDaniel's the volume,
Like he has certain guys that he just wants to
feed the ball. Yeah, I would imagine tray Van Henderson
is gonna be on that short list, Like they don't
have how many volume receivers do they have? Digs can
bait certainly Kyle Williams. Maybe I'm I I still like

(38:55):
to pick. I'm still not entirely sure how they're gonna
use him. I'm interested to see what that's gonna look like.
So he could be depending on his role, but the
X isn't usually a volume role in Josh McDaniel's offense,
and then Hunter Henry, so there's not in Remandre Hermandre
is gonna get his fair share the pass game, though maybe.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Not in the past. I'm saying, like throwing the ball
in general, he's gonna get.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
But I just I think Henderson's probably on the short
list of guys that McDaniels is gonna want a volume roll.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah, it's it's probably, you know, maybe closer than from
between him and Pop And I made it sound but
if I had to say, who's the most uh the
most dangerous player on the field on their roster right now,
I think it's probably Travon Henderson already.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
I mean the big play guys to me, and this
is not knowing where Diggs is that after the knee
and you said before he's kind of this more possession
receiver now, uh, it's it's it's in whatever order. Travon Henderson,
Pop Douglas, Kyle Williams, and two of those are unpotential
because their rookies. But like those are those are your
big play threats, Hunter Henry really good player, really good player.

(39:57):
They're more of a chain movie, right. I still think
Rmandreis Evens is a good player. Chain mover, maybe not
as much in the past game. You know, Mac Hollins
chain mover, digs at this point, really good chain mover,
chain mover.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Those are your big play guys. Okay, So moving on
to the next item here I had on my list
Jelanie Devai going down with an injury during practice was
always those things are always a tough scene. You know,
players were huddled around him on a knee and things
like that, and it looked worse than luckily at least
what the reporting is. I think Ian Rapaport was first

(40:32):
on it yesterday saying that it's an injury that's significant
enough to knock him out of mini camp or the
rest of the spring. But that's really just mini camp
at this point. But it's not.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Well, it's also it said the report said that he
should be back by he said he's out until training camp. Yeah,
so that means like maybe some individual stuff he was
going to do in the offseason he won't be able
to do. He might be you know, is he a
guy that opens on pup because he's off on that
side field and has to get back into football shape
for the first week or whatever.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, So based off the reporting, it's a it's a
calf injury for Jelani to Vuy and and when you
when I heard that report, it made sense to me
why the reaction was the reaction because that could be achilles, right,
and so when everybody was looking, you know, worried and
concerned about Jelanie to Vai, we didn't really know what

(41:22):
it was. It looked like a leg injury, but we
were just looking from across the practice field and really
had no idea. So when the calf injury came out
then and then the achilles, uh would make sense. Is
what people were worried about around him. You know, his
teammates were worried about that it was and those calf injuries.
As we've all become experts, I'm sure on achilles tendentis

(41:45):
for other reasons in this region. Uh, the the calf
is obviously sometimes a prerequisite to blowing in achilles, So
you have to be careful that you don't come back
to early. Happened with Kevin Durant, Uh that he came
back too early, came back for the NBA Finals. What
are you doing over there? I didn't do any came

(42:06):
back for the NBA Finals and uh and ruptured his
achilles after trying to play on a calf injury. So
I'm not you know, I don't know a bunch of
Lyne deVie situation.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Just just put it on the ground. I just want
to work.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, you think the tape gave out breaking stuff. But
I think that the bigger thing with July Diva is
not necessarily you know his timeline and return from injury,
because we're still ways away from playing any games to
help him out over there. He's just comes into our
studio starts breaking things. I am doing it fell uh

(42:41):
and Uh the biggest thing.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Making sure to not break things. I was swinging the
micro earlier to get more or less tension on the court.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
I think there's two things that come from the Diva thing. One,
I don't necessarily think that his job security is one
hundred percent safe on this team. Like, I'm still I
think Devi is a perfectly good football player, but I'm
still trying to figure out his role in this defense
and well exactly he fits within the scheme that they're
trying to run currently. And then the second thing is

(43:09):
is Julyant Devis played a lot of snaps for this
team over the last couple of years. If he is
not there, how do we feel about their other options?
Obviously Splain is going to be a big part of
that linebacker mix, but how do we feel about it
being Christian Ellis and Jack Gibbons and maybe my guy Marte.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
I wanted to get to that, Like finally three years later,
you're seeing Marte mop who play some linebacker.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
How do you feel, well, coaching staff that's willing to
actually pay fast guys and athletic guys at linebacker are
seeing that it's more of a stylistic Yeah, he can
fit there, but we've had a lot of questions about this,
I feel like on on our shows about linebacker depth
and people not being crazy about their options at linebacker,
and if this coaching staff does have a vision of

(43:54):
how to use Tavia if Tavia is now not in
the mix, that really should bring those questions up even
I would think. So first part of the question will
start there, what do you how do you view Julani
Tavai right now in the scope of this roster.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, he's right there on the bubble. Yeah, and I
think there's a role for him. And we talked about
this the other week. A guy that comes in goal line,
short yardage and still gives you that thumping downhill, big
physical linebacker that you're probably not gonna have on the
field nearly as much as they used to, but twenty
five thirty percent of the time is a guy you

(44:28):
might want to have in your back pocket. And then
you'll play on special teams as well, right to justify
the roster spy, So that could be a role. Is
that a role that they maybe feel like they have
to have, or maybe you sign somebody the practice squad
that you can elevate for certain games, Like I don't
think Devia has to be that guy. I don't think
he's unique in playing that role. So I think he's
on the bubble. And if he's gonna miss time in camp,

(44:49):
that obviously doesn't help. I don't think it's something he
can't overcome if he's just gonna miss the first week,
you know, especially with that role be back when the
pads are on right, we don't need to see in coverage.
So but I I think he's right there on the bubble.
He's one of these kind of situational guys that this
is what the at large roster spots come down to.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Would they rather have that guy.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Versus maybe it's keeping him to stop the run versus Okay,
well we want to keep a third height end and
a full back. They want to keep c. J. Deprie
and brock Lampy, not Spencer Larson brock Lampy. Right, Maybe
it's you know, keeping that sixth wide receiver is the
difference there. Maybe it's a third quarterback. We go on
on fourth running back, right, So I think that's probably

(45:28):
where he's competing. He's going to be in for one
of those at large spots.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
So my view on it with Tovay in terms of
his fit in the defense, there is definitely sound reasoning
to think if they put Robert Splaine and now it's
different defenses, but just you know, stay with me, if
they put Robert Splaine in like a Jawan Bentley type
role where that's he's truly the mic and he's truly
like the tackle you know guy that that's playing at

(45:55):
the point of attack and is reading out run trying
to funnel everything to him. Then you and then you
put to Vie back into that hybrid fixer role I
think is what they used to call it in the
old defense. Like if you put him back in that
like weak side hybrid role, that's what he played at
a really high level at a couple.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Of years ago. Yeah, so I could see the.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Vision of well, if Spolaine is going to really be
the Simon sound funneling the ball to him in the
run game, he's gonna plug the a gaps like that's
Splaine's role in the defense. Then to VI's back to
kind of roaming like he was in twenty three and
here with the Patriots. Then yeah, maybe you could go
back to seeing the good version of Jelanie Tavia last

(46:36):
year when he was trying to play the Juwan Bentley role,
he was overmatched. But maybe if you go back to
that role a couple of years ago, you could see it.
But when I watched these practices him and Anthony Jennings
just stand out to me as guys without a home
right now. I just don't really feel they want to
get smaller, they want to get faster at linebacker. If
you're gonna play weak side linebacker in a defense like

(46:59):
that like this, there's two things that you have to
really be able to do. One thing is you got
to be able to chase the ball right, because you're
gonna be doing you know, a lot of fitting and
then spilling right. So you're gonna have the guys at
the point of attack are gonna try to get the
ball to bounce outside the numbers, So you need to
have somebody that can go across the field and make
that tackle when the ball bounces. Is that really Jelani

(47:21):
Devi's game.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Maybe he can lose some weight and get down to
a faster or more sleek version of himself to be
that way. And the other thing is when you roll
into zone coverage, you know, the weak side linebacker has
a lot of a really high stress zone assignments, especially
in cover three defenses when he's playing like the week Cook,
where like you might have to pick up a crossing
route or something like that from the opposite side. So

(47:45):
there's a lot of athleticism that it usually takes to
play that kind of role in this a true even
front mechanic type defense. So we'll see what if that's
to buy Like, it definitely feels like it's a little
bit more Christian Ellis, Jack Gibbons, you know, one of
those types of guys. Maybe it's Marte mop who finally

(48:06):
clicks for him and it's sort of his type of role.
Maybe it's you know, dugger in the box right and
he's the one that's really playing that kind of weak
side role. So it'd be interesting to see where that
goes in terms of his fit. Because Jennings stand up edgsetter,
this is a four down defense, Like, that's not really
a role anymore in this defense. To vise, you know,

(48:29):
that big hybrid linebacker, that's not really a role too
much in this defense either. So whenever we watch these practices,
those two guys just look to me like solid football players,
guys that can contribute and certainly can deserve to be
on teams. But where do they fit on this football team?
I'm still not entirely sure. How do we feel about
their debt behind to vide behind Splaine. This is again

(48:53):
a question that we get all the time, you know,
asking questions about that linebacker position.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
I wouldn't sleep on Jack Gibbons, you know. I don't
think he's Splaine, but he's somebody that people in Tennessee
were high on, kind of surprised that he was let go,
and I think he's in the opportunities he's gotten. He's
looked good. And Marte Mapu in the picture as well.
It's not their deepest position. I don't know that it's
a spot that I'm super worried about, because again, Tavai
wasn't like if Spalaine goes down right, and if you

(49:23):
or Gibbons right, you're trying to plug somebody into that role.
That's not a role you're plugging to Vay into that
ideal because he plays it the game completely differently. So
could they use another linebacker maybe, Like I wouldn't be
against that, and that might be a guy you can
just get on waivers or something. Yeah, you know, down
the road. But I don't know that I felt any

(49:44):
better or worse like depending on Tavai. He's in a
different category to me.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yeah, I either way, I feel is not any worse
really about it either, because I don't think that they're
gonna play a lot more than two linebackers at a time.
And then when I say linebackers, I mean like true
off linebackers, like their base defense will have two off
ball linebackers. But I don't envision them playing very many
linebackers to begin with. On third down. I don't know

(50:10):
if they're going to be playing any of those guys. Well, so,
and I mean, you know, I'm sure situationally third and short.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
So that's where I think. Well, no, I say third
and long like Christianellis we saw last year after in coverage.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Right, But is Christianelli's gonna play or are they gonna
do like you know, are they going to add another
pass rusher onto the field and still are pure pass.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Well, the other thing I was gonna say is they
can you know, they have safeties that can do some
linebacker type and Peppers and and Doug It.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
I just I just wonder if nowadays, when you look
at a third down defense, and I'm talking about like
third and medium to long, you know, third and five plus,
a lot of defenses play like five rushers and then
six defensive backs and there's like really no middle there's
no middle layer to that. If they run the football,

(50:58):
then the safeties are just coming from depth and filling
like their linebackers. They really have done away with the
mid range there of a defense, right, like that doesn't
really exist anymore. It's five guys up up top, you know,
across the line of scrimmage to rush the quarterback, and
then it's the six guys in the back end. And
so at that point, I don't even know if Splain

(51:19):
is gonna necessarily be on the field a ton on
like third and eight, right, Like, I just I don't
know if that's necessarily going to be where he plays.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
So I.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
In my mind, I'm saying they need like three linebackers.
They need three linebackers for the season that can have
that they feel comfortable playing at a high volume because
someone will get hurt, right Unfortunately, that's just the nature
of the beast. Well, is that Splain, Gibbons and Ellis?
It could be, It could be. I think there's a
really good possibility that it is, or you know, maybe

(51:49):
it's ends up being a spline to vay in Ellis
and then Gibbons is kind of like the fourth guy,
that's an a special teamer slash, you know, depth piece.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
But that's more what I think Tavay is. Yeah, because
if you want again, he's not a one for one
swap with Spline or even Ellis where Gibbons is. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Fair enough, all right, a couple more items on Ota
s UH here and then we'll open up the phone
lines eight five five Pats five hundred is the phone
number if you want to jump in. We have a
bunch of emails coming into UH that we'll get to
here starting in a second. But I gotta ask you,
Alex June fourth, are we no not yet? Are we
buying or selling our chism stock right now? Are you

(52:30):
buying this efton chism hype?

Speaker 1 (52:32):
So I don't think I'm as hyped as most people.
Here's our Matt with eftin chism and this is a
very this is very much not a we have a
show to do today take.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
But we talked about this last year.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
You're gonna be You're gonna sit on the fence. We've
been before, right, it's not sitting on the fence. It's
not quite sitting on the fence. Okay, I don't think
is a Udfa or is anybody really you can win
a roster spot in June. I just don't think you
can do it. Football's played in pads, are not in pats.
That being said me, and you have seen what it
takes for Udfa, even at that position, to make a

(53:03):
roster push and make the team. We saw that Jacobe
Myers obviously do it. Even other guys who made the
team and maybe didn't have as much of an impact,
a guy like Christian Wilkerson. Right, we've seen what it takes.
And ft and Chisholm right now is laying as good
of a foundation as he could possibly lay to go
into camp with the stage set for him to win

(53:25):
a roster spot. The two things that stand out to
me about e Fton Chishlm Number one, really good hands catcher. Yeah,
And as much as the Patriots have struggled assimilating wide
receivers into Josh McDaniel's offense stortally, not just in the
draft free agents, right, there's not and the ones that
have hit, there's not necessarily a ton of carryover between them.
It's not all one similar guy, but one thing they

(53:48):
all have in common. From Dion Branch to us welcome
to Julian Edelman, even Rob Gronkowski, they're all really good
hands catchers. What that means is you can go outside
your frame and get the football. You don't need to
bring it in, you don't need to cradle it off
your body. It's just two hands. Like remember those old
NFL Fantasy football commercials. I think it's Chris Cooley like

(54:09):
punching through the wall to catch the football, right, Like,
that's what you think of when you think of hands catching.
I once heard a coach say, like, catching the football
is not a passive activity.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
It is an active activity.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
You attack the football, you go out, you go get
the football. And part of this too, is another layer
to this. And this was a big Randy Moss thing
and Rob Gronkowski thing. Not to put Chisselm in the
same category.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
As those guys, That's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Late hands right, you don't want as soon as the
ball is thrown, go like this because the cornerback's covering you,
especially in man where he's not looking at the quarterback.
All right, hands are up, balls coming. You watch some
like prime Randy Moss. The last second, it's just just
real quick with the hands, put the ball out and
he's been doing that so one strong hands catcher, which
generally works with Josh McDaniels too. It's been unbelievable the

(54:54):
top of the route, his ability to set up, stack
the defender, break off in an open space, it's consistent,
it's clean every single time. So I love that he's
doing all that. I got to see it in pads
because what happens when the corner and I know, I
legal contact blah blah blah, but there's aways a little
pushing and shoving right at the top of the route.
What happens in the corner can get his hands on
him at the top of the route. What happens when

(55:14):
he's getting off the line of scrimmage? What about how
good are his hands through contact? Right? So I'm not
I've seen people be like Efton Chisholm and Roster Locke territory.
Yet no, he's not. You can't be. Nobody, no Udfa
can be at this point of the year. It's just
not realistic. But he's doing everything he needs to do
at this point that when we get to August and

(55:35):
the pads come on, like, we're not just going to
be learning about He's set the stage. He's built the foundation.
So we always talk.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
About Maurus Harris as the number one poster child for this.
I'm gonna give Marius Harris a break here today and
talk about somebody else.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Well, it's a little different because Maurice Harris was more
straight line speed.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
And he was also more of a veteran player. But
the guy that I wanted to bring up today was actually,
do you remember, I want to say it was twenty two.
Trade Nixon had a really nice spring. Yes, Trade Nixon
had a really like I had a really nice spring.
Trade Nixon was a seventh round pick by the Patriots.
I don't believe so I think he retired. Actually, oh
that's right. Yeah, he's a seventh round pick by the Patriots.

(56:16):
He was Ernie Adams's pick. It was there his last draft.
He drafted Trade Nixon. Bill gave him the pick, drafted
Trade Nixon, and Trade Nixon was a speedy, shifty UH
receiver inside receiver mostly, and he had that skill set
and for the spring portion, UH he was lighting it

(56:39):
up with Mac Jones. Like him and mac Jones had
a rapport. It looked like that was going places. And
then to your point, the pads came on in August
and we never heard of trade Nixon again.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
It just completely dropped off.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
He also battled injuries throughout his career, nagging things that
just kept on derailing his development and to that, and
you know, we've just built up scar tissue over time
here with these types of examples with our time on
the beat of knowing when you just can't overreact to
guys this time of year. But I would say you
especially can't overreact to guys this time of year that

(57:14):
are really nifty route runners, like guys that really know
how to separate, because you can't get your hands on people,
you can't be physical. There's no threat of the safety
coming down in clocking. You're not that they do that
in practice necessarily anyways, but there's just not a whole
lot of resistance and physicality to the game right now,
so we have to see it when the pads come on.

(57:35):
That being said, the one thing I am buying with
Defton Chisholm that makes me think that he has a
clear path to making this roster is that he just
fits the mold, like he fits the suit of what
Josh McDaniels looks for in that slot position, and you
mentioned the hands catching and attacking the football. That's a
big part of it. Another big part of it is
you know, finding those pockets of space and being able

(57:58):
to navigate high traffic areas over the middle of the
field and just knowing when to settle, knowing when to
sit against zone, knowing how to break off option routes.
And when you start talking about the slot position and McDaniels'
offense over the years, one of the things that always
is important too is that it's a very high IQ
position because you have a lot of options to your routes.

(58:19):
Every route you run is going to have conversions or
options where if it's zone, you're doing this. If it's man,
you're breaking away. If it's zone, you're sitting here. If
it's too high zone, you're sitting there. If it's one
high zone, you're sitting here. Like there's all sorts of
different intricacies to playing that specific position. We all know
probably about the Juke series with host juke and all

(58:40):
that kind of stuff, where it's different breaks and different
sort of things based off the coverage. It's not a
coincidence that Julian Edelman, former quarterback Kobe Meyer's former quarterback.
Like the guys that we've seen recently succeed at a
high level in that role have all had backgrounds as
for quarterbacks. Now, Efton Chisholm doesn't have that, But when

(59:03):
I watch ft and Chisholm play in here so far
in the spring, he has that high IQ or that
innate ability to just find those areas of the field.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
So it's not I'm not so much.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Over the top about e ft and Chislm individually in
a vacuum, but I am seeing, Okay, this is a
Josh McDaniel slot receiver. And we talked about in the
draft whether it was like Xavier or Estreppo or any
of those types of guys. This was just kind of
like small school Xavier restrict. Yeah, like that's what they

(59:38):
kind of did here with Chishm, and that archetype has
a role on this team.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
So I again, it's not to say, you know, we're
kind of coming in here and really talking down on
the kid.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
It's not to say we don't think he can do it.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Like I still put together, like I'll do a ross
projection after many camp next week, I'm probably gonna have
him one yeah, like I think he's on pace to
do it, and the things we've seen him do he's
done well again finding space, creating separation at the top
of the route, catching the football.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
But that's not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
There are more things he's going to need to prove
he can do in order to make the team. It's
not that he's failed at them, they just haven't come
up yet, because that's how this process works. So he's
just got to check a couple more boxes that he
hasn't even gotten to, and he's on track to make
the team. But to say he's you know, a roster
lock right now or trending in that direction, it's just

(01:00:27):
entirely too early.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
So if you're I know it's stereotypical to talk about
Ethan Chisholm in this way, But there's a reason why
every single time a Ryley McCarron or An Austin Carr
or any Braxon Barrios, when those guys start came through
here in the Dynasty years and the Brady years, there's
a reason why everybody latched onto those guys as there's

(01:00:50):
a possibility this player can make the roster. And I
say that they you know, I feel the same way
about Chisholm, Like, I think that Chisholm just has that
mold and has that skill set that just fits the role.
And Drake May in college and a lot of people
have brought this up with Pop Douglas, and I think
it is relevant with Pop as well. His most productive
receiver in college was Josh Down Yeah, and that's a smaller,

(01:01:14):
shifty slot receiver. I still think and I talked about
this yesterday when I was on with Felger and Maz like,
people need to stop putting Pop Douglas and Efton Chism
together as if it's one of the other, because it's
not there. They play differently. There are different types of
and you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Felger's take yesterday was Chisholm on Pop off, to which
I'd say, if Pop's not making the team, and we
sort of talked to those fourth the running backs, they
can't afford to give up on that speed. Not for
guy with that with the ability that he has, it's
already not a fast room. And if you move on
from Pop Douglas. So I look at it like Chisholm

(01:01:52):
is more than that Edelman Jacobe Myers mold.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
He's built more like Edelman.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I think his skill set is probably closer to Myers,
but he's just not as big Pop Douglas. To me,
I'll keep going back to this is Danny Amandola. Pop
Douglass is built like a slot receiver, but he plays
more vertically, and he has more of that straight line
speed that allows you to keep a defense honest vertically
rather than a guy like Edelman or Myers who stretches

(01:02:18):
you horizontally. They can both be on the roster. Frankly,
they can both be on the field at the same time.
Not all the time because he can't be that small
all the time, but there is absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Room for both of them. I don't think it's in
one or the other.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
I don't really think they're comparable players if it had been,
if they had drafted Jalen Noel. He's more comfortable to
Pop Douglass to me, because he has more of that
game breaking speed. He's faster, he's more a vertical player.
I don't think Chisholm and Pop there's some similarities, not
entirely different, but I think to say, you know, oh, well,
they have these receivers guys like Pop Douglas and Fton Chisholm.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Those are two different players.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
That's like saying, yeah, they have a bunch of running backs,
guys like Sony Michelle and James White, both good players.
Sony Michelle and James White are not the same, Like
they don't do the same thing. Yeah, there's some overlap
between pop and chism, but I don't think it's nearly
as much as people are making it. I agree, And
I don't know about Ammon Doola, Like when I watch
pop though, I don't know if he's ever going to

(01:03:18):
get to the volume that Dion Branch got to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Yeah, but but that's sort of the type of I
thought Kyle Williams movements. I just feel like, I don't know.
I I feel like Kyle Williams is more what I
am starting to see with him is more Brandon cos
that's on Branch. But like that that's the way that
I just look at pop just because of the the
the quick twitch ability, Like Dion Branch was also very

(01:03:43):
quick and has that like those explosive shifty movements, and
that Pop Douglas has. Pop Douglas also, I think, you know,
to your point about them being different, Pop Douglas can
be a scheme touch guy like Pop Douglas can be
a screen merchant. He can be a jet sweep guy.
You know, you can get him the ball near the
line of scrimmage in some space and he can run
with the football. That's not eft Chism's game. Aft Chism

(01:04:05):
does not have juice like that. After the catch, He's
going to get caught from behind. He's not going to
stretch the field horizontally on a jet sweep.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Efton Chishm is going to be that Julian Edelman Wes
Welker type of slot receiver that's just going to you know,
eat up middle of the field coverage, right Like, that's
gonna be at Chism if he succeeds, if he pans out.
So they are different in that sense. Pop Douglas is
much more explosive than Afton Chism. Is The difference to
me though with Pop compared deft and Chishlm is that

(01:04:34):
I think Efton Chisholm has a little bit more of
feel an instinct. He's a better out runner of the game, yea,
not just the physical technique but the mental size.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Like Pop Douglas is a great man to man beater
because he's just he's just runs away. Hell yeah, right,
and it's just hard to cover him in a phone booth.
But he's not necessarily the best at like fueling out
coverage and understanding where to sit and understanding where the
voids are and finding the space. If he developed that,
then I think Pop Douglas could be like in a
thousand yard receiver in this offense. I don't know if

(01:05:06):
he's ever going to develop that now that we're going
into year three, I don't know if that exists in
his We'll see how they use him, we'll see how
they work with him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
But again I just I don't think him And like
the guy Chisholm is really competing with for me is
Jaylen Polk, Like that's the similar and again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Paul Kendrick Bourne those types of things.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
But I think Polk especially because again that's that Polk
got all the comps to Myers, right, that's the guy
that isn't necessarily fast, but is going to get open
at the sticks. And then again what Polk was supposed
to be not what he was last year, but we
talked about him in the draft. He's gonna get open
at the sticks. He's gonna find space in the defense,
He's gonna sit down and his own things like that.
That's the guy that plays more like Chisholm in theory

(01:05:49):
is Polk. That really, to me is the big competition.
Those two guys are more redundant than Chisholm and Pop.
Chishm and Pop are just they have similar builds.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yeah, the word that I've heard Joshua Daniel's using the
past is like he brings energy, like he puts energy
into the offense. Pop Douglas puts energy like. That's what
he does now efton Chisholm, I'm not sure if that
he's gonna do that right, but he's also I think
he's gonna have a little bit more a feel for
the the for coverage and for the game in general.

(01:06:18):
All Right, moving on now to another thing that's just
really on my radar with his team, and then I'll
give you a second to talk about the kickers before.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
We wrap this up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
But this is and I know we've been pretty offense heavy,
but this wasn't really a big It wasn't a big
defense practice, to be honest with you. But the one
thing that's really squarely on the radar for me right
now is what's going on at left guard. I really
feel like they're searching for a left guard. I'm not

(01:06:47):
saying there is a guy, isn't a guy on the
roster that necessarily I'm not saying that they're they're in
trouble with that spot yet. But you have a guy
like Wes Schweitzer, who we've talked about in the past,
kind of like a Michael Jordan from last year, right
where it's a veteran guy. He started some games in
the league, but he's not necessarily you don't necessarily feel

(01:07:10):
awesome if he's the starter. Let's just put it too
that way, you don't necessarily feel awesome. Then you have
some younger guys that either haven't lived up to it,
like Cole Strange and he was asked point plant the
other day frankly, you just haven't lived up to being
a first round pick. And he kind of knows it right,
you know, he didn't shy away from it. And then
you have you know, citysow Leyden Robinson, who we haven't

(01:07:32):
really seen as much of getting those opportunities with the
top group. I knew Tyrese Robinson did last week when
we were out there, but whatever reason, and I don't
know what the reason is, but it doesn't feel like
Leyden Robinson is necessarily catching on. Just based off the
reps and what we're seeing out at practice, it doesn't
seem like he's really the in that mix yet for

(01:07:55):
that spot. If it's Schweitzer, I feel I don't feel
great about that in terms of, you know, just overall
getting your best five out there and top end talent
type of thing. But maybe he could just kind of
be at least a steady presence there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
For George. We did this a couple of weeks ago,
but he's got to be better than Michael Jordan's I
know he did, but can he be Teddy Carris but
the guy that started with ten games in the last
three years. So no, no the answer, But I'm not
saying it's right. But I didn't we to have this debate,
like a couple.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Of weeks ago about him being Michael Jordan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Be in it and don't rule out, don't rule him out.
I think it's wide open. I think they're gonna let
it be settled when the pads come on. I think
that's what it's gonna come down to. And this goes
back to us not seeing all the practices. Right, We've
seen West Schweitzer, we've seen Cole Strange, We've seen I think,
did city still have a left guard day or was
here right I saw?

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
We saw somebody else. We saw Robinson as he was.
He wasn't there the other day. But like who there's
probably a Laydon Robinson day behind closed doors, you know,
just clods into a day behind closed doors. So a
day behind closed doors, who knows. We'll see a little
bit next week because we'll be out there all three days.
But like I think it's gonna be when the pads
come on, it's wide open. Somebody will have to get
the first snap, just because somebody's got to go yeah,

(01:09:13):
and maybe that'll be Schweitzer, just based on what we've seen.
But lightly, lightly, lightly penciling that in, I don't think.
I think they're far from decided.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
It's it's something that's worth talking about. We talked about
on this show. I know for a fact, signing a
veteran left guard that was maybe a little bit more
proven and a little bit more stabled in West Schweitzer
in free agency or possibly drafting somebody high to play
left guard. You know, we talked at nauseum about guys
like Wyatt Milam and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
It sounds like they might have thought about it. It
reports he had fallen thirty eight. Yeah, so you know
those types of guys. We still haven't seen Jared Wilson
participate in full yet, so maybe Jared Wilson eventually gets in.
And I think that's the reason why I keep going
back to Jared Wilson potentially playing some guard as a
rookie is because I just don't feel great about that

(01:10:04):
spot right now, and if he's the best for it,
then by all means, let him play. The big concern
is not just that it's a potential weak link. It's
also the guy that's going to be playing next to
Will Campbell. So like Will Campbell is going to be
a rookie and he's going to be out there, and
if you don't feel great about who's that left guard,
you know that that's a weaker side of the line

(01:10:26):
in pass protection, especially that potentially that's a concern. You know,
Garrett Bradbury, I'm not sure Garrett brad what Garrett.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Bradbury has left yet. You know, is he going to
be a high end center like he was a couple
of years ago, or is he going to be the
guy he was last year in Minnesota, which is a
guy that was on the outside looking in for the Vikings.
They signed Ryan Kelly to move on from Garrett Bradbury.
So I wish I could sit here and say, and look,
I'm not trying to be alarmist. Certainly, it's June fourth.

(01:10:55):
We still haven't seen any of these guys in pat
so there's a long, long way to go here. But
I still feel like the offensive line, the only part
of the offensive line I feel one hundred percent good
about is the right side, Like and Morgan Moses, I
think are going to be a good right side. The
rest of it I think is still up in the air.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
I mean, you have to feel kind of good about
Will Campbell. He's an unknown because he's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
A Rookieel good about Will Campbell and his future. Yeah,
Will camp rookie is going to have some bumps.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Now get what you're saying out well, and then it's
if Jared Wilson wins the starting job, left cards between
two rookies.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Right, and then I again, Brad that's fine, but it's
not that's a high end center.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
It's a pressing thing, and it's not one of these
like they've had the last few years, some of these
and it's not unique to them, just the way these
practices work. But like the last few years they've had
some of these offensive line battles continue into the season. Yeah,
continue in a September. You really don't want to be
doing that next to a rookie with the second year quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Yeah, you really don't.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
You didn't want to be doing with the rookie quarterback
last year. By the way, let me be clear, like
they screwed up last year too, I shouldn't say too.
They haven't screwed up yet this year. I won't punish
him for something done. But that's something you got to
know when you cut down the rosters, who you're starting
left card.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Is Yeah, it's definitely on my mind. Okay, uh, here's
your kicker minute. It was another good day for Andy
burgallis correct? Yeah he's rolling. Yeah, Yeah, he's rolling.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
It looks good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
I think they're gonna keep Parker Romo love it because
I think one they want to keep the pressure on
borgas the camp two. I think they're gonna want to
keep him on the practice squad as a backup, just
in case, more so injury than anything else. But Borgollis
is looking like a guy who was drafted, which is good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
So they haven't always had that. The last couple of
draft picks have not gone well. I won't bring up
the first one. A couple of even make the teams
all right, No, and then Chad Ryland, of course, you
know a couple of yearsly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
A good start. Yeah, he went good in camp and
then he fell off because he beat out Nick Folk.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
It's not it's not. My point is it's not a
guarantee that it goes well, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
And well, And it's not a guarantee goes well from this,
Like kicking so fickle, it's not guaranteed at any point.
But like so far, so good from Andy, borgallis not
not worried about anything.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Love it all right before we open it up, I
promise you will hear in a second, I just want
to talk a little bit about David Andrews's retirement ceremony.
Awesome ceremony on Monday afternoon after the open ota that
we've just talked about, and a couple of things. First
of all, I think that one of the coolest things

(01:13:21):
that we do is those video montages of all the
former teammates that ye come in and give a message
to David Andrews on his retirement from Brady Gronk Edelman
his offensive line like it hit me in the feels
a little bit, just a nostalgia Patriots fan.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Well, there are some deep poles in there too. Yeah,
we can get to those and explain them a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Nate Solder, Joe Toney, Shaq Mason, and I don't think
Sea Bascot in there. Marcus Cannon, So you know that
that was the line, right like that, like when they
were rolling and they were winning Super Bowls in Andrews'
career and you know, sixteen and eighteen, that was that
was mostly the group.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
And really it's because Cannon no offense. Marcus Cannon, he
came in earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Yeah, I don't know if did him and SeaBASS overlap
now I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
I don't think they did.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
I think Sebastian retired before David Andrews. David Andrews were
twenty fifteen, right Volmer, was they overlapped for oh?

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
They overlapped for two years, okay, but it was that
that interior of Shaq Mason, Joe Toney, David Andrews. They
all came in within like a year of each other,
and it was they all kind of went right into
starting roles and like that, that three man interior was

(01:14:38):
rock one of the best in football. While they were together,
one of the best in football. And all three brought
different things. Toney was just a technician and a great
athlete and just a high level player at left guard
that could do a bunch of different things. Shaq was
a bulldozer like he was you know, pulled shack Mason
through the hole was a staple play for them, and
he he was an absolutely elite run blocker in his prime.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
David Andrews was a snarl. He was the attitude. Yeah,
he was the tone setter. They all brought it. I
was gonna say Drake may Tom Brady's shelf was kept
clean for for four or five years ago there with
that group. Like the it feel like up the middle
was never an issue. Even when Aaron Donald in the
Super Bowl, they're just you know, keeping him at bay
with those.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Is that Dante Scarnecki's masterpiece.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Probably, yeah, you know, it just was in general that
by the way. Yeah, Scar was there, which was very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Not in the red jacket though, which I I you know,
I would just walk around with that thing on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
He doesn't seem like that of guy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
No, that's what I would do. But yeah, like I
mentioned a bunch of different players in that video, James
White was in it, Doron Harmon, both mccordy's were in it.
Some of the deep cuts, so Jared Stidham was in it.
David Andrews and Jared Sidham are tight, really tight. Their
wives were really close as well when Jared Sidham was here,
So that one is playing by relationships. You know, that's

(01:16:02):
a good friend of David Andrews's. Aj Derby similar thing, great, Paul, Yeah,
aj Derby, Yeah, so I think to some people were
sitting there and like, how did aj Derby and Jared
sit him get in this video? So you know that
those are really good personal friends of David Andrews.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Yeah, and he said he lived with aj Derby. I
think their rookie year. Yeah, they were that same class
real quick aj Derby minute. Yeah, so he was here
the year that Brady was suspended. Jimmy got hurt in
that second game, right, and then Jacoby tears his thumb
and they have to go into that game. If I'm

(01:16:40):
remembering correctly, maybe it was a different game. They were
going into some game where they were super thin on quarterbacks.
AJ Derby was a college quarterback. Yeah, he was here
for those twenty sixteen Yeah. I was so convinced we're
going to see j Derby play quarterback for the poder Man,
even if it was just like a wrinkle trick play
something Josh drew up because again their quarterback, the one
quarterback on the roster. His throwing thumb didn't work. He

(01:17:02):
was a rookie, rookie fourth round pick, like you gotta
put a wrinkle in. I really thought we were gonna
see a J Derby play place now for the Patriots.
He hung around the league for a little bit. I
didn't really see Howny around as long as he did
good for him. Yeah, cool, cool moment. Always with that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
I just love not to get all weird, but I
love watching the player watching it like David Andrews like
watching it and just like huge smile on his face
the entire time, And that that was awesome. I'm sure
it feels great to hear that from all your teammates.
And then David Andrews just raw emotion from the jump

(01:17:35):
in his speech. The second he got up to the
podium and started trying to read the speech, he was
starting to break down already, and you just could see
and we knew this just being you know, fans following
his career from the outside, us being a little bit
on the inside and being able to talk to David
Andrews over the last handful of years. Football is everything
to that guy. You know, he's invested in the sport

(01:17:58):
and you could tell by his speech and just a
great a lot of great speech, you know, words in
his speech about you know, the sacrifices of not only
his family, but also just you know what the game
of football meant.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
I loved that he thanked the game of football. Yeah,
I thought that was so cool. And you know, he
opened up talking about he wanted to express gratitude and
I think gratitude and reverence, yeah, for the game itself.
And I and this come for me, like I don't.
I wish I love football half as much as David

(01:18:33):
Andrews does. Like that football guy through and through. That's
it was awesome. It was awesome just to see and
it was great for him to get to thank so
many people that his whole family is everything. His parents
are there right, his wife's kids. Just thinking the sport itself.
I thought it was so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Yeah, it was really cool. And his sons were there,
two young sons, And I think David Andrews would be
a great coach if he wanted to into coaching. He
could definitely coach an offensive line room someday if he
wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
His son Ford and Worth are both like three under three.
The Worth is a baby, so I can totally understand
if he wants to live life with them for a
little while and not. He said he said that, Yeah,
he said he wasn't looking to get a coaching Yeah,
because coaching is an eighty ninety hour a week maybe
more during the season type of job, and and that

(01:19:29):
you know, takes you away from your family even more
than playing does in a lot of ways. So I
don't know if that's necessarily on in his future because
of that, but I would venture to say that just
based off of what he said the other day and
also what he said in the past when it's been
kind of clear that retirement might be in the thought
process towards the ends of some of these recent seasons.

(01:19:50):
He loves the game too much not be around. He's
gonna be around the game somehow.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
He's doing the podcast, maybe around media wise, but David
Andrews at some point wouldn't surprise me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
A local media presence, not too different from our friend
Zolac or something like that, is not out of the question,
I don't think for him.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
So, you know, him being around in that he was good.
So he right after he was like two weeks I
think after he was cut, he did an hour with
that with Zolac and Purtrade. He was good. He was good.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Yeah, I could definitely see that for him. And that's
obviously way less time consuming than coaching, So you know,
he could definitely do something like that. But a really
cool moment. It's one of the players and that we
actually got to spend a lot of time covering. Yeah,
some of these guys we weren't around for as long.
But David Andrews started in fifteen, I started in eighteen,

(01:20:44):
seventeen eighteen.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Him and Cardona where we start in eighteen, Him and
Cardona were the last two guys that we like didn't cover. Yeah, right,
Like I watched David Andrews the last game. I so
I like tangentially covered the team when celing As was
starting up in twenty seventeen, Like yeah, I would, you know,

(01:21:06):
write about the games and did podcasts and stuff, but
I was doing it from home. It was a side thing.
Like I wasn't credentially, I wasn't down here whatever. The
last game, like I watched not covering the game is
twenty eight three. Yeah, so the only two guys in
that game, or the last two guys in that game
that we're still here, we're Andrews in Cardona. So we've
now seen since we've been you know, down here every day,
we've now seen the entire locker room turn over. I

(01:21:27):
don't know if that's a good thing, are bad. It
makes me uncomfortable, it makes me feel old. Well, I
don't hate I don't love that. I'm like because we
start I was twenty four year, twenty five our first year.
So like guys are getting drafted and we're like, you know,
they're same age as us, Like there's some relatability and
we're older than what seventy eighty percent of the roster
now at least especially now they got they're getting so

(01:21:50):
much younger here, yeah these last couple of years. Yeah,
so you're still getting older for some reason.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
I would put David Andrews on a personal in terms
of guys that I just enjoyed covering the most, not
necessarily like my Matt Rushmore are best players or but
the guys that I deserved that I really liked covering
the most. I put David Andrews on my personal Mount
rush More up there with Devin mccordy, with Matthew Slater.

(01:22:17):
I think those you know, I know, Matt rushfires four,
but I think that those three kind of stand alone
for me as just perfect Patriots, Like just perfect on
and off the field.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
I'll throw in there too. And this was one of
the first guys we ever talked to was Dante high Tower.

Speaker 2 (01:22:32):
Yeah, he was great too.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Do you remember so we he had that corner locker
right all the way in the back drif the locker,
you know, big imposing guy, and you wanted to ask
him something. Is when I had the camera and we
go back and he like he's he definitely knew how
how much we didn't know what we were doing. Yeah,
he was like, you get one question, yeah, something like that.

(01:22:54):
He's like, you can talk to me once a week
or something. Yeah, it was like it was funny. He
was always really good to us. It's just kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Was that's a good you know, yeah, given us a
little rookie moment. Yeah, he would do that, and he
was he was kidding, but he's also not kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
But like we didn't know because we never So he
tell me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
That I could ask him one question once a week
and it had to be good and it has to
be good, and I wouldn't answer. I remember one time
I tried to ask him another question a couple of
days later, and he remembered. He said, You've already asked
me your question this week. I'm not answering. He was kidding,
but yeah, he's he's definitely was. Yeah, he's definitely on
that list as well. So really cool moments for David Andrews.

(01:23:30):
The last thing I wanted to say about that, there's
a big lockjam. It's probably you know, he needs to
wait four years as it is, but it's probably gonna
take even longer. He's gonna wear a red jacket.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
At some point, Skark can wear the red jacket when
he gives David Andrews.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Yeah, I have a really good feeling that that's going
to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
You know, Edward been going in this year.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Gotta get Gronkowski in, Gotta get Vinetarian.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
You know, then there obviously will be other guys like
Devin mccordy and Slater and uh, players like that from
this sideration. High Tower himself definitely needs to get in. Yeah,
those types of guys, so might it might not be.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
We've done this before, We've done a year. High on
Welk or I'm high on Moss, Yeah, the guy who
was here a little bit longer. You put Steph Gilmore in, No,
I wouldn't if you're not going to put Randy Moss in.
I don't think you can say that Randy should be in.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Yeah, but I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
I mean, I I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Think there's an argument more so than like Revis. I've
definitely yeah, I mean, Gilmore had the pass break up
in seventeen in the KFC Championship Game. He had the
interception of the seal of Super Bowl in eighteen and
had great year in eighteen and then defensive, so that
I mean, that's a good resume. It just was short lived,
you know, but yeah, but he packed a lot in there. Yeah,

(01:24:44):
it's a good resume. And maybe at some point if
we're a decade, yeah, maybe down the road right to
run out of guys a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
Whose next corner you're putting in?

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
Next corner I'm putting in? Yeah, it's a good question,
cause they've had a lot of good corners.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
But oddly enough, like you're probably not putting a key
to Leeban and I love the key to when he
was I think we all did. Yeah. Uh, Malcolm Butler
is an interesting one. Yeah, he does have arguably what
one of the five biggest plays in franchise history.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Maybe the biggest play in franchise history.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
I still think some of those Vanitary kicks.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
I mean, you could definitely make the case.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
You can make the case. I almost said biggest. It's
like he was here for a couple and he was good.
Besides that, Vanitary's.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Kick in thirty six is probably the biggest. Is the
first Super Bowl? I think it's the Snowball. Well, the
snow Bowl is the harder kick.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
All right, just for the iconic moment, but like Butler's
right there on the fence, Gilmore, I don't think Reeves
is getting in. That was just one lay. That is
too short. But like you think about some of the
great corners they've had, and like none of these guys.
Maybe it's maybe it's Christian Zaliz.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
Yeah, maybe hopefully. So you know, Edelman's going in this year,
Gronk obviously has to go in, probably Gronk, Edelman, Vanity.
Then you have James White, Yeah, Matthew Slater or Devin mccordy,
then Matthew.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
So that that'll be the It's almost like groups of threes,
right because Edelman, Gronk, Invententario retired around as well, and
territired from the NFL around the same time. Yeah, Slater, White,
mccordy all retired around the same time. Yeah, and then
you'll get into like David Andrews.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Yeah, and then you start I mean, then you start
to get into the territory and maybe we're just forgetting
somebody off the top.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
Well there's Bill, but Bill will be his own thing.
I'll pause it for your like, and then but then
you're getting into the territory of it. Fitting out maybe
a little bit, and you either going back to the
Dynasty years and like somebody that was overlooked, like a
Wes Welker maybe or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
You have to put Gostowski in.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
He is the franchises all time leading score, he won
multiple Super Bowls. He was here for a long time,
not before Venitarian, not for some of those other guys.
Doesn't have the clutch ness his his He had some
big kicks early in his career at the end, I'm
not in. Also, the video of him being in the
stands drinking spiked hot chocolate in a snow dog legendary. Yeah,

(01:27:09):
I'm not trying to crap on the guy, like cool
guy and and good patriot. I just I don't know
you're gonna down blame because he special teams. He put
Joe cardonaan No, of course not. You're gonna put Joe
Cardona in the patriotsoll soon.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
But what do you mean, what are we doing Gustavski?

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
He's the franchises all time leading If that doesn't mean something.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Stick to the Goskowski take that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
That doesn't mean yeah, I know, I was just yeah,
if being a franchise all time score doesn't mean something.
I don't know what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
So like if we you know, and I just you know,
we're in the second hour here in June, so just
what we do.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
I think people like this stuff, if the chat likes it.
Somebody asked me to put a Sante Samuel.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
In No so the guy that I was thinking about
because I'm trying to think of guys, Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Who the next corner is, Okay, I was only thinking
boundary corners is Jonathan Jones.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
Oh yeah, he could be in there, Jonathan Jones. So
I'm trying to think of guys that maybe came in
like Dynasty one point zero. Yeah, that we're overlooking because
they just it's a log jam and there's a lot
of guys and what it starts thin out Antoine Smith,
I think Corey Dillon has has a case Corey Dillon.
So Corey Dillon would be a good one. It was
like two or three years, but like he has doesn't
he have the single season rushing record for the franchise.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
I want to say those guys from the sixties has it.
He might have it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
I'll pull it up, like oh, three or four, he
had like sixteen hundred yards didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
He Yeah, you're right, he does. It's it's him, Curtis Martin,
Jim Nance, Steven Ridley is fourth.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
So that again, this is what you know ten years
from now when it starts to thin out. Yeah, but
once it starts to thin out and you start to
talk about some of these guys that you wouldn't consider
over Julian Edelman or Adam vine Terio or Rob Gronkowski,
but you might consider on a weaker valid I feel
like a guy like Corey Dillon just because of the peak,
so of how good it was. Well that that's kind

(01:28:53):
of my argument with Gilmour or Moss.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
Yeah, well those guys and guys. The thing that's interesting
with Dylan, we know that they use this as an
opportunity to kind improp guys up for Canton. Yeah, and
I don't know how many ballots Dylan has left, so
maybe the.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Timeline doesn't work out.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
But if you look at the comparable numbers he statistically
him there's actually three former Patriots enter on this list.
Oddly enough, him, Steven Jackson and Fred Jackson are like
the three most productive running backs in NFL history that
are not in And look, somebody has to be the

(01:29:30):
best player that's not in the Hall of Fame. I
think it was Jim Plunkett, right for years, was like
the best player that wasn't in, So somebody asked to
wear that distinction.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Corey Dillon is right there on.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
The short list of the best running backs who are
not in, who are eligible, right whatever. But like you know,
if they ever really wanted to make that push, that
would be a way to do it. Yeah, there is
another player from that era that should be maybe not
the Patriots Hall, but Larry Centers should be a hall.
Ridiculous Larry Centers is not in Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (01:29:59):
Insane, ridiculous that Stanley Morgan is not in the pit.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
Stanley Morgan is a good Stanley Morgan's the Patriots off
not in ProFootball, He's in the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Yeah yeah, so yeah, no, that that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
I think, like, I think it's minimum five hundred catches.
I think he's like the all time leader in yards perception.
I believe that five hundred. That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
It's a it's an interesting conversation. Not it's an interesting
conversation to begin with the Patriots All Fame, but it's
also really interesting more interesting to me when we start
talking about, Okay, ten years from now, post Dynasty's obviously
been a little bit of a lull here, So going
back and maybe revisiting Mary Dillon, revisiting a Logan Mankins,

(01:30:40):
Logan Mankins, I should definitely be in at some point,
like those guys are all also, you know, Logan you're
gonna have We just talked about that interior. Are you
putting Joe Tune in? Maybe you're put in Jack Mason.
I'm an offensive line guy, so I'm the wrong way.
I was gonna go Nate Solder next.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
But maybe Tony two needs at least a h and
I don't mean any disrespectful to those other two, but
like too needs at least a good enough player.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
Well, so here's justifying.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
I just don't know if he has like the Patriot accolades.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
But he's gonna be in the Profoleball of Fame. He's
probably gonna be first ballot Pro Football. I don't know
about that. It's really hard to get in as offensive line,
especially Joe Toney. It is wrong if Joe Toney is
not a first ballot Pro Football of Fame. I think
he'll get into the pro football game. I don't second ballot.
He's a top two guard of his errate. It's him
and Quentin Nelson. Is anybody else on that list? Brandon Sheriff,

(01:31:34):
Zach Martin, aren't those guys like kind of the era before?
Aren't a little older?

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
Maybe Zach Martin is the best offensive lineman I've ever seen. Okay, well,
Joe Toney should be first ballot, all of him.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
I'll say that a guy you drafted that when multiple
Super Bowls here that is in the Pro Football Hall
of Fame should probably be in your team hall of Fame.
I compared to like Haynes, Like Mike Haynes is probably
and I don't know entirely like is Mike Haynes. I
think is a lot of more is a raider than patriot, right,
but he's great patriot. He's a great patriot and he
and I think he is in the Patriots Hall of Fame.

(01:32:05):
Right he should be, I would assume, so I would
kind of put him. And this is meet Mi Canes
played before was alive. So maybe I'm a little bit
off here, but that's just my thought.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
So I didn't u last thing. I will take some
of these phone calls. Yesterday I got to meet Steve
Nelson for the first time, which which was really cool.
It was kind of like a fan boy moment. And
I know, I you know, I'm young, and I didn't
Mines isn't the Patriots. I didn't get to see him play. Yeah,
you know, we weren't born yet and stuff. But it's
still kind of cool to meet one of those guys.
And Duce is working on something on the eighty five

(01:32:37):
Patriots team and that's gonna be a lot of fun.
And you know, I thought about this and I was
glad Duce was already kind of working on this project
and kind of beat me to it. But you know,
I got into Celtics City, as I'm sure a lot
of Celtics fans did. The Patriots don't have the success
in their history like the Celtics too, obviously with all
the championships that the Celtics have won. But to me,

(01:33:01):
there's not enough. And I and I hope people uh,
you know, watching or listen, I think, listen to to
Douce his things so that we can keep doing it.
And you know, the proof is in the in the
putting with the numbers, right to back it up, because
there were some intermittently really good pockets of Patriots history.
I mean that's seventy six team, seventy six, eighty five,
obviously the ninety six team.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Basically like every prior to the dynasty, like once every
ten years, they would have a really good team.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
Yeah, and and a really good group of players. You know,
we're talking to Stanley mork and Mike Haynes, John Hannah,
Steve Nelson. You know, those guys could play man like.
Those are really good football players. And you know, obviously
Tip you know as well. So hopefully I think it
would be serving the fan base in a lot of
ways on that team too, right, Yeah, serving the fan

(01:33:48):
base in a lot of ways, to educate a lot
of the younger fans about those teams, because in a
lot of you know, a lot of the time you
hear about the Patriots history and it's looked down upon,
like all they were like the laughing stock of the
league or something like, you know, exaggerated like that. But
they had some really good individual players. They had some
really good pockets and really good promising teams that now

(01:34:11):
that we're out of the dynasty and we see how
hard it is to win, and we see how hard
it is to make a super Bowl and put together
teams that are winning playoff caliber teams. My guess is
that a lot of younger Patriots fans or fans that
latched on when the dynasty started will start to appreciate
that more because of how hard it's been the last
couple of years to watch this team. So a lot

(01:34:33):
of those guys like, we would definitely take an Andre
Tippett right about now, but also like we would love
to an eighty five season. Yeah, they got killed in
the Super Bowl by the Bears, but they made it
to a super Bowl Like that was a great accomplishment
and it should be celebrated. So I'm glad that Duce
is doing that. Was cool to meet Steve Nelson yesterday.
I totally forgot to do any read So I'm gonna

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A T S.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
Were you the one that told me that the workers
working on the practice facility or fans of the show, Yeah,
shout out to them.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
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Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
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There you go, All right, let's get to the phones.
All right, I'm looking forward to this call because this
call yesterday got got uh some fireworks going on Patriots
on filters. So Christians in La, what's up?

Speaker 3 (01:35:52):
Christian Evan Evan Evan see I owe you and Mia call.

Speaker 4 (01:36:00):
And I'm mad enough to stand up in front of
Patriots World and say it. I got triggered when I
heard Kendrick Bourne's name and it's not you, it's got
Solac who I'm I'm I'm mad at so I had
a whole bunch of other stuff to talk about. I
just got so triggered by it that I went hard
at you, and I'm mad enough to apologize and say,

(01:36:21):
even though you are a Kendrick born homer, you're not
the main homer.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
That's okay, Christian, you don't have to apologize, But I
do want to ask you, like, sincerely, you know, what
what do you like, what do you have against Kendrick Bourne?

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Like, what's what's the problem here?

Speaker 4 (01:36:38):
Yeah? Seriously, as a person, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
You know, no, no, I know it's not personal.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
I just mean in terms of the football, yeah, And
in terms.

Speaker 4 (01:36:45):
Of football, I get set up with players who have
this potential thing right that like, oh this guy, yeah,
he did this one time and he's got potential, and
we got to hang on to him because you know,
once his knee gets right or once he gets to
the right coaching. Lots of teams do that. I get it.
Kendrick Boyne is the guy on our team now that
we've been doing that with, and I think he does

(01:37:08):
have some value and we should use that value now
just you know, get rid of him, maybe get a
seventh round pick the next year or something. But I
don't think we should keep this thing of like, Okay, yeah,
he's got the potential. We need somebody, so let's just
keep this guy who's clearly overpaid and just hasn't really
done anything. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (01:37:27):
Sure? Yeah? Absolutely, yeah. I think where we all stand
with Kendrick Bourne, you know, and I don't want to
be for Alex, but for me personally, I don't think
that Kendrick Bourne is a number one receiver by any means.
You know, we're talking about a guy that we just
think can be productive in that like number three receiver
role or number two receiver role. Potentially, you know, maybe
a little bit too high at number two, but maybe

(01:37:48):
he's a solid, complimentary receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
He's paid like it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
I think his base salaries like five million dollars this
year or.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
Something like that. And look, I'm the first one ever,
you know this. I'm the first one to get annoyed
when people talk up a player on potential when we
did this this one time and blah blah. But there
are there is a reason that people look for that,
because it does happen. I think Kendrick Bourne is an
example where you know, there is a realistic line between
he had that great season and twenty one. Okay, then

(01:38:14):
he goes in the doghouse with Patrician twenty two, which
we know, maybe isn't the most dis qualifying thing based
on other team was run. That year comes out as
a great start to twenty three. Tears the ACL the
long history of guys maybe not being as good the
year after torna a SILS, two years removed, and here
we already's back with the coordinator.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
He had the great season within twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
I don't think it's exactly grasping of straws to say
there's more to Kendrick Bourne than we've seen the last
few years.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
Is he going to be the number one receiver?

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
No? Probably not. They need complimentary guys too, because that
room's not very deep, and he's a guy that's proven
he can do it in this league to some extent,
and they don't have a lot of guys that can
that have done that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:48):
Right, Yeah, yeah, we have, we have we have no
one that we can really count on. He's a five
million dollar possibly number three. Just say that to yourself
out loud. A five million dollars a year, possibly three? Ye,
number four.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
Rather, it's about right, it's the going rate for it
at least.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Now what else do you got?

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Christian?

Speaker 4 (01:39:07):
That's that's really I just want to apologize you can
get back and right standings with my guys and go,
you know, have a good week and you guys love it, love.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
The path you two.

Speaker 2 (01:39:17):
Christian, no problem, You don't have to apologize. I love
the fire. I love it when people call in and
bring some passion to the phones. Not that anybody doesn't
do that, but I I liked the call yesterday, Christian,
no problem.

Speaker 1 (01:39:28):
Max is in Vermont. What's up? Max?

Speaker 3 (01:39:32):
Hey, guys, in question about the wide receiver room. It
seems like Diggs will probably play a lot of slot
reps and eleven personnel you know. To me, that means
Pop Douglas might feature, you know, more of the true
role player than an every down guy, you know, like
a wide receiver four type on third and ten. I'm
curious what you will see as the best version of

(01:39:54):
Pop's role on this team and if he projects more
as like a receiver for lost snapped out guy, you know,
could he be a trade candidate rather than guys like
Boody or Born you know who may be more likely
to see the field in love and personnel.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Yeah, thanks for the call.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
Mass.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
I think this is you know, it's a question that
seems to get picking up some steam with Pop Douglas.
I feel like that, you know, maybe he's not one
hundred percent secure here in terms of maybe it's trade
or whatever. I still am with you on this with Pop.
I mean, look, we I like Pop. We saw him
at the Shrine Bowl right before, yeah, before his draft.

(01:40:33):
I kind of felt like I was early on him then,
So he's kind of one of my guys. I was
really excited when they drafted him. I still think there's
a role for him. I don't know if he's ever
going to be a true high volume like this guy's
gonna catch eighty plus passes in a season consistently type
of player, but the way that he moves is different.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
I still believe that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:53):
I still think he's the most one of the more
explosive players they have on the team. I still think
that he's got that ability, like I said earlier, touches,
jet sweeps, motions, screens, things like that that he can
be impactful on. But maybe you know, to use a
comparison that from another team somewhat recently, I remember when
the Chiefs had Tyreek Kill and me Cole Harmon, and

(01:41:14):
tyreek Kill was the guy and me Cole Harmon was
kind of in the same mole, but sort of the
secondary guy right to that mix, Like maybe that's Pop
Douglas's future is like Kyle Williams is sort of not
necessarily Tyreek kill good, but like Kyle Williams or Stefan
Diggs or someone like that is truly the number one
option in the offense. And then Pop Douglas is just

(01:41:35):
a kind of energizer bunny. That's a secondary guy within
the framework that might be where he's best, like a
super sub receiver. I just might be his bet.

Speaker 1 (01:41:45):
I don't think they can afford to part ways with speed,
not that position out right now.

Speaker 2 (01:41:50):
I just don't think they can fair enough. All right,
let's get to some of these emails. This one is
from Jordan Patriots Nation is his thing, and that gave me.
I was like, oh, okay, I don't know what that is,
but it sounds interesting. Jordan from Ohio. He asks, uh,
give me your breakout player on offense and defense for

(01:42:10):
the Patriots. So offense first, you have a breakout player
for this season.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
I mean, I think it has to be Drake made
by default, right, you need that year two jump for
them to take the leap. You know what, screw, I'll
just go with theme to day Pop Douglass. I think
it's gonna be a good fit in Josh McDaniels offense,
and uh I think we you know he improves on
last year.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
Yeah, I hope it's Drake May. Like, if this is
headed in the right direction, it should be Drake May.
It's kind of not unfair, but just like, I don't
know if rookies really qualify for this sort of thing.
I think they do, so I think if I didn't
say Drake May, I'd have to say one of the
skilled players Henderson Henderson or or Kyle Williams. Yeah, what
about on defense?

Speaker 1 (01:42:48):
A breakout player on defense? I'm gonna go with. I mean,
Pop does can't waite, that's litterally who I said last year?
You know what, I'm gonna go with Robert Splain. I
just think that signing kind of went under the radar
because they signed Milton Williams a few.

Speaker 2 (01:43:04):
Hours later and all that. But I think people are
gonna be really impressed with Robert Splain.

Speaker 1 (01:43:08):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
I think the splaying is gonna be a hair on
fire type of guy that people are really gonna like.
Can I say, Keon White, like as Kean White already
broken out.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
He's another level he can get to.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):
I wonder if there's another level that he can get
to as well. And I'm excited to see him in
this defense because I think this defense is going to
uh correct for his aggressiveness. Like it's not gonna be
aggressive without outside the scheme. It's gonna be aggressive inside
the scheme because they're gonna want him to be inherently aggressive,
and then other people are gonna be assigned to make

(01:43:43):
him right when he is over aggressive and he does
shoot a gap or he does come out of a
rush lane or something like that. So I I I
want to I think Keon White will have another level
because I think he's a better scheme fit within what
they're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (01:43:56):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
Uh, this question is from Emmer and he said, Evan,
were you the reporter who asked McDaniels yesterday about putting
more on Drake's plate at the line of scrimmage. I
was the reporter that asked him that question, actually, And
then he said, I know that has been a concern
of yours, and I'm curious to get your take on
McDaniel's saying it was overblown.

Speaker 1 (01:44:16):
Yeah, he did say that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
In response to that question, I asked him, what is
the approach not necessarily about it being right around, but
what is the approach in terms of building up to it?

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:44:28):
Like, you don't want to all of a sudden go
into a practice and think Drake May is going to
be Tom Brady and you're sixteen and like put everything
on his plate? What to build up to? You know,
what's the build up to it. The two things that
McDaniels said that stood out in his answer. One, Yeah,
he did say that he thought it was kind of
an overblown talking point about his offense and about this offense,

(01:44:49):
I've said that someone would have to do it, whether
it was the center or it was the quarterback. It's
going to be on somebody's plate to make the calls, right,
So they're gonna have to teach somebody how to do it. Now,
I would counter with center, it's probably a little bit easier. Uh,
there's maybe a little bit less on your plate than
that court of not maybe there is a lot less
on your plate than that quarterback, but not here nor there.

(01:45:11):
The other thing that he said that I thought was
interesting was that he feels like Drake May has kind
of already got it, like he's grasped it quickly and
is learning it quickly, and he feels pretty comfortable with
where he's at with that. So that was me though.
I asked that question, how do how do you feel
about that whole thing? Am I making too much out
of it? I mean, it's factor, It's a fact. I

(01:45:32):
think it's still early.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
Yeah, but it's a factor. Yeah, I agree. I actually fine.
I asked Ashton Grant's same question.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
What did he say?

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
Uh, pretty much same thing. McDaniel said, Yeah, overblown. Well
the second part about it, he's picking it up and
it's not getting the wraps and blah blah blah. Yeah, okay,
all right. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
Logistical question here from Connor from Saint Paul, Minnesota, and
he was wondering if the joint practices in the Twin
Cities will be open to the public. And the answer,
as far as I know, and this is not I'm
not saying that I know for a fact by any means,
but just based off experience, I would think, yes, those
practices have always in my experience, those have always been

(01:46:12):
open to the public.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
I would assume it's However, the Vikings, I don't know
how the Vikings do training camp. I would assume it'start
with the Vikings user do training camp for the fans
my because I know some plate like here it's free, right,
some places you have to actually get a ticket or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
Oh yeah, we're entered like a lottery in Buffalo or whatever.
I again, I have no idea the defenditive answer to
that question. But I've been told in the past that
joint practices are considered training camp and because of that,
it's always open to the public. So usually that that's
been the case. We had a great was it last

(01:46:44):
year we were it was two years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:46:45):
We were in green Bay.

Speaker 2 (01:46:46):
Those joint practices in Green Bay were awesome because they
have a great facility right across the street from lambeau Field,
and it's like it's almost like a high school stadium,
Like there's there's bleachers and everything, and there's a field
in the middle. It's literally like a high school football stadium.
And so it was like a raucous crowd, like it
was like hostile. You could feel that there was like

(01:47:09):
some hostility towards the Patriots, and uh, it is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
So that that was very cool. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
Uh, here's an email from Jeremiah, who I think is
on your side on the Gazkowski debate. H Alex so
Satan Kaszkowski shouldn't be in the Patriots all fame, dude
to not have memory kicks like Vinetaria. Understand, but statistically
Gazkowski was the best kicker for the Patriots. Yeah, that's true.
He has the stats.

Speaker 1 (01:47:33):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Uh, this is not anything against the early two thousands
Patriots teams who were obviously wagons, but they were scoring
at a much different clip once Kezkowski became the kicker,
like Gaszkowski has baked in there like the two thousand
and seven Patriots team. Yeah, still hit the kicks, he says,
twenty ten to twenty. Yeah, but how many of those
were extra points?

Speaker 1 (01:47:53):
Still hit them?

Speaker 2 (01:47:54):
This is oh okay, So we hit the old extra
point nod.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
When do they move back it?

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
Maybe later in his career. And I actually think when
they moved it back it was kind of a problem
for him, wasn't it. It was like a mental move.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
The extra point twenty fifteen. I thought it was much
longer than that. Yeah, that sounds right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
So that that's my biggest thing with like counting stats
for kickers, like points and you know that sort of thing,
is that a lot of that is predicated on the
offenses that you're playing.

Speaker 1 (01:48:22):
Still have to hit the kicks. You more opportunities to.

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
Mard extra point like like he's making a thousand of
those than not you're the leading scorer. Also, how they
calculate it is is just it's all. It's always going
to be a kicker. Does any team in the NFL's
leading scorer not a kicker?

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
I have no idea. Maybe maybe maybe either Ravens or
the Bills. Who are the Ravens are the Bills? Like quarterback?
Well quarterback? They don't count past Yeah no, maybe not.
I know Tominson led the Chargers. That one insane here,
But you still to hit the kicks. I don't know.
You still did the kicks, You da have many more
opportunities to miss your under that much more scrutiny. I
think it matters. I think it matters. I think there's

(01:49:02):
something to be said at that even at that position
for volume and longevity.

Speaker 2 (01:49:06):
I agree with longevity on any in any sport, at
any position. Longevity is impressive to me. But I just
I don't think. I think the answer to my own
question is all thirty two teams leading scorer in franchise
history has got to be a kicker, just the way
they calculate well, because kickers also play longer, right, But
it's just rushing touchdowns, receiving touchdowns and then kick it

(01:49:27):
like those are the only way that you score points
because they don't count passing touchdowns the same. So I
don't defensive scores, okay, but you're not gonna get enough
defensive scores to be the leading games. Oh my god,
stop it, all right, I want to play an over
under game while you look that up.

Speaker 1 (01:49:42):
Yeah, let's do it, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
So here's a little over under for Patriots, you know,
over unders and individual players. Milton Williams five and a
half sacks over under.

Speaker 1 (01:49:55):
Under because I think he's going to be more the
pressure pressure guy than the cleanup guy. Like I He's
gonna be impactful. That's the way they're gonna play defense.
That's a high number for that position. I'm gonna go
over because I'm gonna say he's gonna have six, So
I'm like it's a good number. It's like, right there,
six is a good night I think you're gonna see
more like calebon Chase on Cleaning Up the with Milton

(01:50:15):
Williams and Christian Barmore. Cause, yeah, give me, give me
like a pressure number for you for him, that's more
how I'm looking at. Yeah, fair enough, give me give
me a pressure number for him. Sixty.

Speaker 2 (01:50:25):
I think sixty is a good number. Ke White had
forty five last Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:29):
Okay, so yeah, like I think, I yeah, in that conversation,
it's not gonna if you're just reading a regular box course,
it's not gonna look sexy. I think he makes an impact,
but I don't think the stack number is gonna be
very high. Christian Gonzales one and a half picks. I'm
gonna pick sixes, sixes, sorry, you know over two? Pick
six is over.

Speaker 2 (01:50:47):
I'd say he had one last year, right, and then
he had to fumble recovery touchdown. Carlton Davis is going
to help him. I don't know if he was at
a fumbler recovery touchdown and a pick six, it might
have just beenumber. Christian Gonzales might have just been a
fubbler recovery touchdown last year touch against Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
But I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
I'll say over. I think I think Carlton Thing's.

Speaker 1 (01:51:07):
Gonna help him.

Speaker 2 (01:51:08):
Agreed, I'm gonna say over as well because the same
reason we talked about this, Carlon Davis hasn't been out
at practice the last couple of practices we've been at,
but he talked about this when he was out there
on that first one. Like having a guy like Carlton
Davis that in some games can just shadow an opponent's
top receiver that allows Christian Gonzalez to make more plays
on the ball kind of be more of like a

(01:51:29):
almost playing like free safety, but playing it as a
corner and seeing the ball more and making more plays
on it. I think is in play based off of
having Carlton Davis, and I think that would help him
make some more impact plays. There's obviously a ton of
value in him shadowing and taking guys out of the
game completely, but maybe a next step for Christian Gonzalez
is making those like splash plays on football and maybe

(01:51:52):
Carlton Davis allows him to do that. Roberts Blaine one
hundred and five tackles, so he had over this I believe,
like I mean had one fifteen right, yeah, well high
like an over one on five hours in that role
last year.

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
I'll say over.

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Yeah, I'm gonna say over as well. Defense points per
game allowed twenty one and a half, so this would
be like a top fifteen ish defense in the league.

Speaker 1 (01:52:14):
Yeah, I think they're like right at I So I
did a show in the Sports have recently r I
had them at twenty one, So I guess I have
to say under. But like, I also think they're gonna
play relatively up tempo. I think they might play some
games that did. Are you know they're they're not gonna
do much short in the game.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
Yeah, I'm gonna sit well over under.

Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
I think they allowed more than twenty one and a half
points per game, but it's like just barely.

Speaker 2 (01:52:36):
Yeah, I would say again, that's a good number. Twenty
two ishes mayly where I'm at with them, So I
go over Stefan Diggs eleven and a half games played,
I'm going over over.

Speaker 1 (01:52:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
I think he's gonna play more. Remondre Stevenson seven hundred
and fifty rushing yards.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
I'm gonna say it all depends, like if they don't
have leads, then it's not He's not gonna go over that, right.
What was it seven to fifty first Stevenson. Yeah, I'm
gonna say under under too much Henderson. Josh is too
good about balancing the workloads. I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
Under Henderson five hundred, five hundred fifty five receptions. Well,
I had that take earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:53:13):
That running back is going to be top three on
the team and he's probably got to do it, so
I think I have to say over. I'm gonna say
over as well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:19):
But that's another really good number.

Speaker 1 (01:53:21):
I think I think he's like fifty five sixty five
somewhere now range. That's another good number.

Speaker 2 (01:53:24):
A couple of Drake may One's here to wrap it. Uh,
thirty five hundred passing yards?

Speaker 1 (01:53:31):
What do you have last year?

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
Probably right around three thousand, but you'll play it. Didn't
play every game.

Speaker 1 (01:53:35):
I'll go over.

Speaker 2 (01:53:36):
I hope it's over. I'm gonna say.

Speaker 1 (01:53:39):
I'll say over. If that's a good tell me totally yards.
I'll definitely say over. That's a good number.

Speaker 2 (01:53:43):
Three thirty five hundreds, like right where the sweet spot,
I'm gonna say over. I'll be optimistic today. Four and
a half touch rushing touchdown rushing coalshounds over on that.
I hope it's over. I hope that that's in their.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
Back pocket going into a passing touchdowns didn't have passes,
Gonnas did not. I think they're gonna be running the
ball in from the five a lot. I don't think
he's gonna throw a lot of red zone touchdowns. I
think that's gonna be his touchdown pass are gonna be
the long ones when they get inside the ten. And
I know the red zones are twenty, but when they
get inside the ten, it's gonna be Romandre Stevenson behind
a full back and maybe Drake May behind a full back. Like,

(01:54:18):
I don't think they're throwing the ball a lot down there.

Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
Yeah, this is a good question from Jeff. We only
have a couple of minutes, but we probably could unpack
this even more. Yeah, but he you know, we were
talking earlier about buying some you know, West Coast influence
in this offense, and he was asking me about building, uh,
the scheme and like building plays off of each other,
sequencing plays off of each other, which has been a
criticism of mine at their offenses for a couple of

(01:54:41):
years now. And he makes a good point. You know,
if they're gonna run West Coast run schemes, duo outside
zone things like that. You know, those don't marry to
the gap play action plays, right, Those are different types
of play action plays.

Speaker 1 (01:54:53):
Right. It's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:54:55):
I wonder if that type of stuff, you know, is
always gonna be game playing, game plan, game plan with McDaniels.
So maybe one week it's it's more West Coast flavor
than another week where they feel like their biggest advantages
running right out of team and getting downhill. It might
be more that infused, but it will definitely be on
my radar end season when I'm watching tape of their offense,

(01:55:18):
you know, are they marrying gap runs with gap play
action and outside zone runs or zone runs with zone
play action, or how do they go about that that
That's a good question. They're in something that I definitely
look for, you know, on tape when I when I
watch offenses, I think the best offenses in the league

(01:55:38):
are the ones that run the same play for like
seventy five percent of the play and then all of
a sudden. The NFL it's something different though. That's what
the best play callers sequence together, That's what the best
play designers sequence together as well. That's where That's what
makes me always fall in love with the Shanahan offenses.

(01:55:59):
That's what they do best. Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt Leaflora,
and Green Bay, Like, those guys are absolute wizards at
this looks like it's outside its own looks like it
looks like it looks like it Oh, it's action. Yeah,
that's that's why that works. That's that's really how the
the crux of how that works. Question about from Barton Poland,

(01:56:22):
this one is a good question that I'm excited about
for our our show's purposes. Is Uh, you're talking a
little bit about the Vikings and you mentioned Kevin O'Connell earlier,
and he said do the Vikings have the best supporting
cast in the NFL? And his question then also follows
with JJ McCarthy and does he succeed in Minnesota?

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:56:44):
JJ McCarthy's success or failure, especially relative, you know, comparing
and contrasting to Drake May this show is that, you know,
our credibility is kind of on the line exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
We need JJ.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
I don't wish anything bad on JJ McCarthy, but we
kind of need JJ McCarthy to be bad. Say if
you're gonna draft J. J.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
McCarthy, you need to be someone with a good offensive coach,
strong surrounding cast and sit him for a year. They
were kind of forced into that third thing, kind of
exactly what they said, we said they needed to do
with him. So he's he got the best landing spot
of any of the rookie quarterbacks last year. He obviously
got hurt, but he should make the most of that opportunity. Yeah,
I I but he doesn't. It's Daniel Jones competing with him, right,

(01:57:25):
Like they brought in some comp They're not so Dan
Joe's an Indianapoa.

Speaker 2 (01:57:28):
Know who did they They brought in somebody like semi
legit to compete with.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
Yeah, I don't know who.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
Daniel Jones competing with Anthony richards That's what it was.
Anthony Richardson is his career might be as a starter
Samians Uh No, JJ McCarthy is gonna start in Minnesota.
And after watching what he, uh you know O'Connell did
with with Sam Darnold, like it's hard to imagine that
he's gonna stink, but.

Speaker 1 (01:57:49):
It's gonna be. I'm gonna garoppolo in San Francisco all
over again.

Speaker 2 (01:57:53):
Yeah, that's not a bad comparison. It was my comp
for he's got a little bit more than Jimmy mccaroppolo.
Jim garoppolo had the quick release and like the the
pillowy throws and stuff like that down, but I think
JJ McCarthy's got a little bit more of a cam.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
It's gonna be Jimmy g and so that that would
make Max Brosmer Brock perty, which would be very fun.

Speaker 2 (01:58:13):
You and h guy, Well, I I'm I'm just looking forward.
You know, he didn't get to see him last year
because he got hurt. It's a it's a great litmus
test for us as people that try to evaluate the
draft every year, and like, was I right or wrong
about JJ McCarty.

Speaker 1 (01:58:28):
So we've got a factor in he's throwing to Justin Jefferson, Yeah,
and Jordan Addison and they've got t. J. Hawkinson a
tight end with what's his name and left tackle Christian Darius.
Not exactly the same group Drake May was working with
as a rookie, No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
To answer the best supporting cast question really quick, I
think it's Philadelphia and it's not even particularly close. I
I I miss so it's got a good one. You know,
Jefferson's are arguably the best player in the league. You're
best receiver in the league, I should say, But Aj Brown,
DeVante Smith, Dallas Goddard, Saquon Barkley, mad with the best

(01:59:10):
offensive line in football, that's the best. Yeah, by fun,
that's yeah, all right, that's gonna do it for today's show.
Perfect timing there with that anything right there, so that
that's a pro timing right there. So we'll be back
next week. Uh, there is mini camp practice scheduled for
Wednesday of next week, so we might be later in
the afternoon like we were a couple of weeks ago

(01:59:31):
when there was an OTA, So make sure to follow
both of us or follow Patriots dot COM's Twitter handle
as well. We'll have you updated on times and all
that good stuff because we might have to move it
around a little bit to accommodate Mini caamp. But the
cool part about that is is that we'll have a
ton of talk about because we'll have hopefully three days
in mini camp to digest on the show, so that

(01:59:51):
that could be a two hour That could be.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
A meaty show.

Speaker 2 (01:59:54):
Yeah, that could be a full two hours of all football,
so we're looking forward to that. Until then, have a
great week, the rest of your week, great weekend, and
we'll see you guys then.

Speaker 1 (02:00:02):
Bye. Hey, this is Alex.

Speaker 5 (02:00:06):
Thanks for tuning into the show. If you really want
to help us, make sure you like us on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, make sure
you follow us on the New England Patriots YouTube channel
to see this show and everything else we do here
at the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
Thanks a lot,

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