Patriots Catch-22 7/23: Day 1 Training Camp Recap and Standouts

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Bars, Bizarre and Lazarre.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
He everybody nailed it, joined us always by our bark.
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars. So starting with
the defensive line, we always joke about this. You get
into the weeds of what's a defensive lineman? What's an
edge defender? Do you even like the term edge defender?
Now you hate it?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Who? This year Madden put it in the game.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I figured since Mad, since Madden put it into the.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Game, that's why not.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Because I've been telling you it exists for like five years.
But now that it's in Madden, it's finally on your roster.
I'll tell you honestly why I did it. And this
is how I've always felt about edge. I think where
edge is when you go through the draft. There are
guys that, depending on what team drafts them and what
system they'll be playing in, do you have to call
them an edge because you don't know. The thing that

(01:08):
always bugged me is once they're on a team, you
know what position they're playing because you can put them
in that system.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
So it makes it a little clearer. But we don't
exactly know how this Vrabel system is going to use
certain guys, So this might be one year thing for me.
I might go back next year when we have a
better look at this defense. But for the time being,
it can go either way. So I felt, why I
use it? This year?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
We are back. Football is back. I am back, the
show is back. Everything's back. This week. I love it.
I love it. Patriots football. Can we say officially unofficially?

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
First day of training camp. So Patriots football.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Is we do this like four or five times a year.
We will try not to do this. I know we
do it for this. We do it the preseason opener,
we do it for the opener, and then we do
it for the home opener Hall of Fame game. Well,
there's like football. Okay, So here's the thing. There's two
Football's back, which is today, especially now that what is
this now three or four years the league has done
this where every team starts the same day. Used to

(02:11):
be kind of scattered. Yeah, the Hall of Fame team
started a little bit. But there's two Football is back days.
There's three. There's today, which is football is back. There's
football is back on TV, which is the Hall of
Fame game, and then I'll give you another Football's Back
for week one.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I would say, there's in my mind, there's two. Football
is back. Today is definitely football is back training camps
like that's the meat and potatoes at the end of the.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
I would saying to people the other day, it was like,
I'll foot like practice starts tomorrow. I'll see you again
on April twenty sixth exactly, which is the day after
the third round of the draft.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Of course you would know that already. But anyways, we're back.
Football is back. We're gonna be breaking down the Patriots
first day of training camp of the twenty twenty five
season with you for the next couple of hours. We
were late because of Alex. It's Alex fault.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
He was late.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I was ready to go. You had to be a
little bit delayed because you had your your big sports
I told you there's.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Gonna be too. Ten to twelve. I was on with Zoe.
I think Zoe, it's somewhere to go to. Zoe was
very instant. We had a good ninety five Sports of
YouTube channel, me and zo of a practice breakdown up there.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Very good. So uh, that's why We're a little bit
of a late uh tip off here, so apologize for that,
but this is probably gonna be just some bookkeeping. This
will probably be our time slot barring any unforeseen practice
conflicts in terms of scheduling for training camp, So at
least for the next let's call it a month or so,

(03:37):
we're probably going to be here in this two to
four time slot. Once football tells us what the end
season schedule is going to look like come September, we'll
adjust or not adjust. Hopefully we can leave it here,
but if we have to adjust again and we will
adjust again. So that's uh, that's the housekeeping items there.
So thanks for holding on with us here for this
little bit of a late start, but we're good to

(03:58):
go now, and uh the page, it's are good to go.
Day one of camp. Nice day, beautiful day out there.
We had dogs everywhere. I'm sure you love that, Alex.
You know Jess was asking me to adopt a dog
and bring.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, they're mostly mostly puppies. But that was a great event.
And I know the Stefan Diggs clip of him chasing
the dog around has gone viral. We're gonna talk a
lot about Stefan Diggs. Today, I want to start off
with two things. One, we we have to throw the
caveat out there that we we saw one ninety minute practice,
non padded that had two team drill sessions. So we

(04:39):
saw Drake may drop back to pass nine times today.
So this was not exactly a high sample size. Next week,
a week from now, we'll have a much larger sample
size to work with where we can talk a lot
about everything that goes into this. Now we have a
show to do today, so we're still gonna tell you
everything that we saw.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
We just take it with that learned today. It's not
to sday. Today's practice was entirely irrelevant if you call
in asking like if we think Will Campbell looked competitive today?
Like that, you know, we're gonna wait till pads come on.
But right there was stuff that definitely things take away
from today.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
So the other bookkeeping item house keeping item that I
wanted to get to, which I think is really probably
the most important thing this time of year on day
one is attendance and who was and wasn't present yep
for this practice. So the good news for the Patriots
in terms of the NFI list Carlton Davis no longer
on NFI. He was a full participant. It seemed like

(05:35):
today in practice. So you had Carlon Davis opposite Christian
Gonzalez for the majority of practice today during eleven on
elevens and what we did see of eleven on elevens.
So Carlon Davis good to go. Off the list. The
guys that remain on the list that I have PUP,
Austin Hooper, Verderian Lowe. They remain on PUP. That means

(05:57):
Jelanie Devai also off PUP. Right, So Carlon Davis, Jalani
Deva good to go. Josh Minkin's the undrafted rookie. He
remains on NFI. And then the two guys that you
have to get some clarity on one of them. We
were trying to kick it out three well, Jalen Polk Collins.

(06:18):
Did you say Hooper and law Yeah, pay yep. So
Jalen Polk was a straight absence like Jalen Polk. Oh,
he was present? Yeah, d m P I should is
I think a better way.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
To you know, I would say he did not participate
in practice. He did not participate in practice, but he's
not on. He is not on a list, so that's
just an absence. Matt Collins was here but was not participating,
but he was on the field in a uniform, but
not in full uniform. So this is gets into all
the technicalities of is that off up not off up?

(06:53):
The most important thing to know about Matt Collins is
he also did not participate. So your two d MPs
were Jalen Polk and Mac Collins. I think he's still
on I because he wasn't wearing shoes like when you
say in uniform. He was in sweats just like he
was offspring, but he had the jersey kind of rolled
up over the sweatshirt. He was not wearing shoes. He
did not have a helmet. To me, that amounts to
because we last year when like Pop was on PUP,

(07:15):
he'd come out in you know, the tank top and
shorts and just kind of hang around right to me,
it was that and somebody probably told him, Hey, when
you do that, you can't wear a jersey. So I'm
gonna guess he's still on PUP.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I'm going to guess he's still on PUP too. That's
my understanding of PUP is that until you actually get
in on a drill and you were actually running a
drill and taking a rep in practice, actually stretching going
through the beginning party.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
I think Cole Strange came out in his uniform last
year too, didn't he When he would come out, I
think he had a jersey on.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
So the biggest thing to me, as far as I
know about PUP is that you have to have at
least actively participated in a portion of practice. It might
just be stretching, but you have to do something you can't.
What Matt Collins was doing was was a whole lot
of nothing.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
So you say, just like you was in spring, he's
kind of hanging around, he's talking to guys, right, so,
but he didn't he didn't even stretch. That was confusing
that he was out there for stretch.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
So basically the guys that did not participate in practice
just a wittless all down. So it's not as confusing
as I just made it. Jalen Polk, Mac Collins, Austin Hooper,
Vederian Lowe, Josh Minkins. They remain out in some capacity,
whether it's on a list or not on the list,
whatever the case may be. So those guys remained out.
But I want to get to that in a second.

(08:29):
But I want to kind of start with the positive
here a little bit if we can. The biggest takeaway
I had from today, and the biggest positive for the
Patriots is that Stefan Diggs is a full go and
looked great. Yeah, and Steffon Diggs caught the very first
pass of practice. You're probably gonna hear that a lot
over the next twelve hours until we have another practice.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Very first eleven on eleven two a practice.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Or twelve they say, twelve twenty four, I'll come.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I'll come for two A in practice.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I know you would field the very very first play
of twenty twenty five Patriots training camp, the first live rep. Well,
I'm going I'm going positive. I'll get to it. I'm
going positive.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
This was after a fall start. But if it's I'm
not worrying, it's more remoses. I'm not worried.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
The very first rep that actually counted was a Drake
may pass completion, just Stefon Diggs on a shallow crossing
route coming over the middle of the field, and the
crowd erupted. It was one of those moments where when
you signed Stefan Diggs in March. Those were the types
of plays and the types of passes that you envisioned
Stefon Diggs and Drake may connecting on when you made

(09:38):
the signing and right out of the shoot, they wasted
no time. They already got on the board. Digs caught
a pass later on in practice as well, so he
looked very good. That's off and running. That connection is
off and running. I think that's huge. It's important this
time of year for those two guys to build that
chemistry and build that camaraderie and have it just be

(09:59):
second nature to throw to each other and to connect
with each other like that. So hopefully that's signs of
things to come. But they worked a lot on their
base offense. There are you know, first and second down
install today as a carryover from the spring. And on
that play, you know Diggs got the shallow then there's
like a deeper crossing route right behind it and you
call it like levels right and you know one two,

(10:21):
and it was just exactly how it's drawn up on
the whiteboard. You hit the underneath level based off the coverage,
get the ball out quickly. That was That was a
good sight to see, it's good to see Diggs out there.
He's a full go he said it after practice, and
he feels great. Very first play that gets off connects
right over the middle with Drake may on a crossing route,

(10:42):
so all systems go first to fon Diggs, which is
good to see.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, yeah, he he looks. I mean, week one is
a real conversation at this point. I don't know. It's
an unfair to call it the expectation. I mean, I'm
not a doctor, but.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, I mean he's out there full go unless he
has a setback, which is knock on what he doesn't
I don't see why.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
And I mean the big thing, I think what people
don't understand it. It's he even said today he's still
kind of like working through it.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Is he gonna be one hundred percent for week one?
Exactly the guy he was last year in Houston. I
don't know physically if he's eighty percent of that guy,
he's still probably their best receiver.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
But the big thing about him being out there right
now and not just being out there, but taking part
in these full speed team drills. He's working on the timing,
he's working on the placement, all that. With Drake May,
he's building chemistry. And this was the thing with Kendrick
Bourn last year because he tore his acl you know,
he was on the same essentially clock obviously a year behind,
but same timeframe. And there remember they kind of said,

(11:37):
like Bourne probably could have played week one, but they
gave him those four weeks to get in like football shape.
So that's the difference. Born came in having not worked
in camp and so he had to get on the
same page. And then there was a quarterback change which
made it even tougher. But like Stefan Diggs's gonna be
on the same page with Drake May week one, So
even if he's not totally back physically yet, that will
do a good job of kind of helping close that gap.

(11:59):
That's what the biggest thing is to me is these
guys gonna be able to work together day in and
day out leading up to the season. That's the most
encouraging thing absolutely.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
And I go back to a Brady quote on this
when one of our first years covering the team, Tom
Brady was talking about it was the year that Edelman
was coming back from the injury and then got suspended
and Edelman was finally coming back, right, Yeah, And Brady
was talking about how with Edelman he knew early on

(12:26):
in the route if Edelman was going to get open,
and just based off of how Edelman moves, like his
body language and his mannerisms and just the motion of
his body, he was able to just read it and
he could understand when Edelman was putting his weight on
this foot or you know, leading this way or leading
that way. He just knew second nature which way Julian

(12:48):
Edelman was going to break. Now that takes years and years, right,
I'm not saying Stevan Diggson and Drake Mayer are going
to do that already this season, but the things that
you're talking about is starting to build towards them. When
Stefan Diggs, you know, feels the defender inside of him,
where does Digs like the ball? Does he want it
back shoulder? Does he want it up? Does he want
you know?

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Where?

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Does he want Drake to throw it? Where? Does he want?

Speaker 1 (13:10):
You know?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
If he's you know, leading the one way, is he
faking or is he actually breaking that way? Like those
are the types of things that they can work out
this time of year and hopefully hit the ground running
come week one. But my excitement level is increasing rapidly
for Stefan Diggs in New England, like I am, really
I feel like I was reserved about it because of

(13:32):
the injury at first when they made the signing back
in March. I didn't want to get too over zealous.
He's thirty two years old, he's coming off of torn
acl He's already not necessarily like the big play guy
he was early on in his career. He's more of
a chain mover. I tried to be calm about the situation.
Now that he's a full goat for this first day

(13:53):
training camp, and he's making catches already from Drake May
in practice, and he looks a little different than some
of the other receivers that they have on this team,
or have had on this team the last couple of years.
I'm starting to get pretty jazzed up about Stefan Diggs
in New England. I really feel like there's no reason
to think that he can't be the guy he was
in Houston last year, which was on pace for one
hundred yard one hundred catches in two thousand yards. I

(14:16):
just don't see why we should have anything other than
that expectation, not to say, you know, not to set
him up for failure, but that's a great thing for
this team if it all goes to plan, right.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
I mean, we've been down this road so many times
the last ten and fifteen years with these receivers that
like you don't want to allow yourself to believe it.
But outside of that one, you know, he's been great.
He's been great. He's given you really everything you want
to look at you you're looking for, and a guy
that's coming in that situation, he's a thirty two year
old receiver or he's going to be thirty two, So

(14:48):
there's expectations that come with that. You know, you're not
getting the guy, like you said, not that big play
threat that he was in Buffalo early on, but we
know what a chain mover, how dangerous that guy can
be in this offense, especially if some of these other
guys we can talk about what some of the other
receivers did today, if some of these other guys can
step up as the big play threats, and he's the
guy you're having to stay honest on underneath, like I
think he's in if if he's moving as well as

(15:10):
he is now throughout the season he's in a position
to thrive in that role.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, And the last thing on Diggs, and then I
want to talk about some of those other receivers. And
I'm gonna I'm gonna compliment Sandwich this this recap of practice,
and then we'll get to all your phones and emails,
I promise, But I do want to have us talk
about practice and what we saw. First. The last thing
on Diggs seeing him in the role that they might
have in mind for him. I know everybody these days

(15:36):
gets caught up in X Z slot, like where is
he gonna play all these you know alphabet and all
that numb you know letters and things like that. I
don't know yet. It's one practice. I don't know yet
if he's gonna be the at the X or he's
gonna be at the Z, or whatever the case may be.
But some of the things that I did see that
he did that I was really excited about were some

(15:56):
of those like short motions and things like that. They
bring him in closer to the formation and then he
releases off the line out of like a stack, a
two receiver stack that gives him that bubble of space
to get off the line of scrimmage and there's not
going to be press coverage in his way or anything
like that. And those are those little, you know, package
type plays that they used to run with Julian Edelman

(16:18):
or Wes Welker or Jacobi Meyers even a little bit
towards the end there with Brady in the mac Jones
zero like that. Those types of plays are a great
sort of just scheme for Josh McDaniels, Like they're very
successful scheme. And I really watch what they did with
Diggs today and what they did with him the little
bit that we saw in the spring, and I just

(16:40):
fully expect him to be that guy in this offense,
just like we've seen in the past out of that role. Now,
a lot of people call it a slot receiver. I
don't know if it's all a slot receiver role, Like
it depends on what you want to identify it at.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's a little more involved, that's part of it.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
But yeah, but it's it's a hot it's the high
volume role in the offense. It is the straw that
stirs the drink of the offense. And that is who
he's going to be. And that to me is also
an exciting element to this because Josh McDaniels is going
to move him around, he's going to bring him in motion,
he's going to put him in positions where he is

(17:17):
going to be able to separate and create leverage, and
all those different types of things that allow receivers or
help receivers to get open off the line of scrimmage quickly.
And I can't emphasize enough, and I said this on
our show earlier, how just the weight off the quarterback
shoulders that happens when they have a receiver in their
arsenal that they can just trust and have confidence in

(17:41):
that is going to get open in high leverage situations
when it's third and five, when it's third and six
and the game is on the line. When you have
a guy that you go to the line of scrimmage
and you already feel like this is where the ball
is going, and I feel pretty good about this guy
getting open, the quarterback just kind of relaxes a little bit,
a real weight off the shoulders for a QB. And

(18:04):
I think Digs can be that for Drake, but I
also think Hunter Henry can kind of be that for
him as well. And so now maybe you actually have
two of those guys. Now we'll get to it, like
we'll talk about the big plays down the field and
the guys on the outside, Like that's still a major
question mark with this team, but they seem to have
two guys at this point that I'm starting to feel
more confident about that can just move the chains for

(18:24):
the offense and then hopefully the big plays will come
from elsewhere.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I to your point about the safety blankets though, and
I think we saw in the spring Drake made it
was a very safety blanket reliant on Hunter Henry and
then Pop Douglas. And there's nothing wrong with that in Spurts,
but something that was really encouraging to me for him
to day, Like you said, we only saw him drop
back nine times. He completed eight passes. Nobody had more
than two catches. That was only two guys. It was

(18:48):
Stefan Digson, was Kytt Williams. He was spreading the ball today.
Everybody got a touch and that is paramount and the
Josh McDaniels offense. As much as people talk about that
slot guy being high volume role, and it is just
because this is a high volume offense, all five skill
position players need to be a threat to catch the
ball at any given time. You need to be able

(19:10):
to establish that with the defense in order for this
offense to work at the highest level. So you can
have your safety blankets, and obviously Brady had them, and
even mac Jones had his, and Cam Newton had his
that year, right, But they can't they can be safety blankets.
There's a fine line between them being safety blankets and
becoming overly reliant. You still got to prove that you

(19:30):
can get the ball to the other guys at times
to keep the defense honest. And look, again, they want
a training camp, right, But after a spring where it
was very highly concentrated to two or three guys, I
liked how Drake may spread the ball out today.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, it's a good point now to complete the compliment
side of things. Yeah, the other guy that I thought
really stood out today and I'm sure you'll hear a
lot of headlines about him as well as Kyle Williams.
Got you just mentioned. So Kyle Williams third round pick.
Obviously the Patriots rookie first day of training camp, catches
two passes, makes two plays, caught a back shoulder fade,

(20:02):
an isolation on the backside against Christian Gonzales, which is
great to see you finished through some contact.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
There as well as say he won a hand fight.
That was kind of my industry.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, I think it's not contact this time.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
No, it wasn't like a jump ball. It was a
comeback and they kind of got they kind of got
tied up at the top of the route and it's
one of those things like in a game. All right.
They both probably pushed a little bit, so you just
keep the flag in the pocket. And nothing was egregious.
But Kyle Williams between the hand placement all that won
the leverage and he created the separation to get the ball.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
It's good to see him do that because that's not
necessarily his game and it's kind of the knock on him. Frankly.
If it doesn't work out for Kyle Williams in the league,
it's going to be because of strength at the catch
point and being able to make those types of plays.
That was a standout play because of that. But the
other play that he made, the underneath crosser, he ran

(20:55):
right away from robertsplane like I was standing up the top.
We were doing our show and Roberts Blaine did not
have the angle on him like he was not catching him,
he was turning up the sideline, so you see those
catching runs. I like that play from Drake too, because
it seemed like he read the progression through and got
down to the checkdown. He kind of went, you know,
from deep to check down there on that play and

(21:16):
almost like a full field read and and Kyle Williams
is just on a shallow crosser underneath the formation there,
just won a foot race against Robert Splaine over the
middle of the field and turned up field and had
some yards after the catch on that play as well,
So you got a little bit of both. You got
him lining up on the outside on the backside against
Gonzo and making a play in some tight coverage, and

(21:38):
then you also had the wheels, you know, the burst
after the catch there too.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
I still think though, just based off what we saw
today again early, we shall almost change that lower third
to just say again or disclaimer one practice, right, But
it kind of feels like you're setting up Kyle Williams
to be the X and maybe he's going to do
some not X type things from that spot. And we've
talked about this. Brandon Cooks deon Branch like it's happened

(22:03):
in McDaniel's offense before. But it does feel like they're
they're kind of lining things up for him to be
the X.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
One.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Other standout catch, got to give credit to Kendrick Bourne.
It was a good probably at the catch of the day,
goes up over. It was Craig Woodson right, and it
was Josh Dobbs underthrew him. It shouldn't have been a
jump ball. It became a jump ball and just ripped
it away from got up the ladder, ripped it away
from Woodson, held on through contact as he hit the ground.

(22:32):
Nice play, all right.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
So that was all the positives, at least on the offense.
I think defensively today there wasn't a ton to glean
except for where guys are playing and Davis being out
there was good to see. But the compliment Sandwich, I'll.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Just say this for the defense. Here's my one thing
with the defense, Like the speed thing is real. We
talked about them adding this speed and explosiveness on defense
and that felt like it was a focus this offseason
and they it looked like they did that. Like the
uh Harold Landry, Milton Williams, Robert Splane these guys are
flying around. Now. The question is we do this with

(23:09):
receivers all the time?

Speaker 5 (23:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Does that speed still play when the pads come on?
So we'll see that in three or four days, whatever
it is. But no, they're I mean this, it looks different.
There's another level of explosiveness on this, specifically the front
the secondary they've always had. I mean, Devin mccordy's incredibly fast.
I was at speeding secondary the front like it's a
different It's so clearly a different prototype of player than

(23:33):
what we've seen here for a long time. And again
now it's just when the pads come on. We've talked
about this. The run defense is probably my big concern.
We're not going to get to see that for another
couple of days. But I liked what I saw today
in terms of the get off of the defense.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
So that that would be the plus side was that
I thought the defensive front really controlled practice in this
game for a long portions of the team drills that
we did see. So you can take that one of
two ways. And I know people will, I know your
your station, will right your station? Will?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I don't care negative, I really don't care what happens
up front until the pads come on good or bad.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
I really don't care that's fair, but based off of
what we saw, because we have to talk about what
we saw today, it's all we can do. I don't
necessarily know where I stand with charting practice sacks because
I feel like practice it's so it's really hard to
determine whether or not it would truly have been a
sack or not. You don't know if he's going to

(24:27):
get the quarterback on the ground. It's live bullets and
you're just trying to watch it all and digest it
all without the benefit of reviewing the practice tape after
the fact. It's really hard to say sometimes if they
were truly sacks or not. But let's just call it
for what it was. There was pressure on the quarterback
when Drake May was out there. You Milton Williams, Keon White.
I saw Harold Andre Chason got on there, got in

(24:49):
there one time off the edge. There was probably four
or five times where the pocket broke down on the quarterback.
And this is a conversation that we're not paid hit
againty panic buttons this early on. But I understand it's
going to strike a nerve for some people because here
we go again, right with the offensive line and the
blocking up front. But I want to mainly talk about

(25:10):
not necessarily the results because like you said, no pads,
Like we'll get to the results as it is, but
there still seems to be some moving parts as we
expected on the interior of this offensive line, and this
to me really is where they could improve significantly the
upside of the line, and that is, you know, Jared
Wilson aren't getting some reps at center. And it's no

(25:33):
disrespect to Garrett Bradbury at all. He's a veteran player,
he's been around. If he's the starter come week one,
it makes sense. It's similar to like breaking in a
young quarterback, right You don't want to just throw Jared
Wilson to the Wolves right away. But Jared Wilson, it
was Garrett Bradbury got like the first round of reps
with Drake May and and then Jared Wilson got Drake

(25:54):
May's second time through in the team periods. So Jared
Wilson's at least starting to mix in. That's a positive
in my mind for sure, just because we didn't see
him at all in the spring really doing teams so
he's doing team now and he's already starting to mix
in a little bit at center. So the line, even
though it's much younger, in an experience, you do feel

(26:15):
like the talent overall elevates if Jared Wilson's the center
and not Garrett Bradberry.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Like I told you, I've been saying this since the draft.
I think he's in the conversation for week one, I do.
And what you saw today was a guy that that's
a battle. One guy went, then the other guy went,
and we're not at the stage where we're evaluating it.
I guess with centers, pads or no pads. You want
to look at the snaps. I didn't see any bad snaps.
I don't know if I missed one, but.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Woolridge dropped one. But I don't think that.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Was That wasn't either of those guys. So okay, So
that's a real position battle. That's a competition. That's what
that is. One of those guys is going to start one, isn't.
They're both getting shots with top offense. The other three
spots or three of the other spots are relatively settled.
Morgan Moses was switch switching out. I think that's probably
load management as much as anything else. Now, it does
tell us to mantre Jacobs is probably the favorite to

(27:07):
be the backup right tackle, which makes sense when we
see Kayan Wallace working at guard as much as we
did today, and well, but that's on the right side.
Varian Low anyway, well we've seen him on the right side.
But you know, Cole Strange didn't rotate out, did he
with the tok room.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
No, the top group, but you know, was pretty consistent
those scores just the center.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
So maybe the battle may. I wouldn't be surprised if
Strange he gets competition at some point. That won't be
I don't think that'll be soon. I think that'll be
when the pads come on, if he starts to stumble
a little bit. But you know, four of those five
spots are set, and if Jared Wilson wins out, I
feel good about that. It's not going to be the
best offensive line in football, but it's not going to
be the worst either, And it's you know, I think,
probably somewhere closer to the middle, which if they can

(27:50):
get to average from where they were last year, there's
still work to do. But if they can get to
average in one offseason from historically bad. I think you
feel good about that, but no that I was telling
you that Jared Wilson one's going to be one to watch.
That kid can play. I know he's young and he's inexperienced.
He's incredibly athletic for that small spot. It's really smart.
Plays what he plays with a little bit of nasty,

(28:10):
which will help him. Kid can play. I'm excited to
see what he can do.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
It's fun to think about some of the things that
they can do with him on the move as a center.
Like it's so he's a rare athlete for that position,
and when you have a rare athlete at the center position,
it just makes your entire line faster as a group.
And so the way that you can reach outside you know,
on a stretch player outside zone play, you know, if
he can overtake you know, someone in the a gap

(28:36):
or you know a three technique or something like that.
Like that's a hard block to make, but certain guys
that are explosive in ours athletic as he is, might
be able to make them. You know, talking about getting
him and like Will Campbell out in front of a screen,
right like those two guys in space that they can
chop guys down and they can cover ground and they
can do those different types of things toss plays, you know,

(28:57):
getting him up to the second level of the defense
on a run play as well. That that's something that
I think is potentially a really exciting, you know, kind
of strength of Jared Wilson. So maybe this this settles
with Jared Wilson at center. Maybe that makes everybody feel
a little bit better on paper. Again, I when it

(29:17):
comes to this time of year, there's two things, Like one,
you can't really block anybody, Like you're not like really
being physical, you know, you're kind of like sliding your
feet like it's basketball and just like trying to stay
in front of your guy as a defender in basketball
would this time of year. And the other thing is
is that you're not there's not really a thread of
the run, like you're not really like going in a

(29:39):
in a drill or in a team period where the
defense has to like be honest about that.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I was actually gonna say because usually this time of year,
you know, you run ten reps, you throw nine, and
they might mix a run play in there just to
keep the defense honest. Even if it's you can't really
do anything with it. I felt like they were mixing
the run. I don't know the last time I saw
a run mixed in that much in a non padded product.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, each guy got like each quarterback, I mean, got
maybe two or three runs.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Per That feels like more than what we've usually seen
right in that little bit.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
And one of the things that stood out to me is,
I thought, and getting it just one day, so we're
gonna have to see the whole look of it once
it we move forward here by a lot of zone running,
a lot of stretch outside zone. There was a couple
of you know, full back elements as well, but a
lot of outside zone. I think that that's going to
be a bigger emphasis of this version. And this is

(30:28):
just my opinion, like it's not informed in anyway, but
this is gonna be more of an emphasis emphasis in
this version of Josh mcdaniels's offense than what we've seen
in the past because Drake can move right, so you
don't have Mac Jones or Tom Brady back there. You
have a mobile quarterback that is really really good on
the move and is actually a strength of his game
is getting outside the pocket and throwing on the run.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
And I kind of liked what he said. Today after
practice he was asked what's new in the toolbox this year,
and he said he want what was the exact what
was like remaining a pass remaining a passer when he runs. Yes,
it's not just running to scramble, it's running to extend
the play. Keep the defense honest. I mean the guys
that play this way at a high level, your guy
Josh Allen, like, that's that's the.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Things when they're the most andous.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
If you're gonna keep the defense honest, that you can
still throw the ball. It's all about putting guys in conflict, right,
there's no better way to put the defense in conflict.
Then you're outside the pocket. You're almost to the numbers,
but they still can't commit and come get you because
they know you're just gonna throw the ball right behind him.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
So we'll see if today was just like a zone
running day and tomorrow we'll get back to getting on
double teams and leading full backs and like, you know.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
Do that.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I would also say, if you are going to mix
in the run just for the sake of mixing and
the run in a non padded practice to keep the
defense honest. It makes more sense to call zone than.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Powerless, especially not in paths because like if you're trying
to get on like a double team or something like that,
and these types of practices, like what are you really accomplishing?
Right Like the Yeah, outside zones much more of like
a athletic graceful exactly. Yeah, it is a power movement.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
So we'll see. They could still come out that first
day full payah, smash and heads.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, So that was that was There was good and
bad there with the offensive line. The positive though of it,
to kind of bring it back is at this defensive line,
at least the front you know, the the front line,
defensive players on the dead line of scrimmage. There's still
I still feel really confident that this group is going
to be a force to be reckoned with, you know,

(32:23):
Milton Williams, Barmore, Keon White Landry uh Chase On probably
for now, maybe that's Braydon Swinson, maybe that's Elijah Ponder
down the road, if one of those rookies can start
pushing for that third down pass rush specialist type of role.
But Milton Williams was disruptive I thought, you know, Keyon White,

(32:44):
they have him playing mostly end in this system, which
I like. Barmore Actually I saw a couple of times
kicking outside to end as well to try to give
them some more flexibility to get you know, a Tonga
inside or a ke On White more inside the formation
as well. So there's gonna be a lot of there's
gonna be some impact players on that defensive line. The line,

(33:06):
not to take Landry off the field on purpose, like
you know, he's a good player too, but like when
you start to think about you know, bar More Tonga
at the nose tackle, Milton Williams is somewhere at the
three technique or whatever, and Keon White like as like
a true defensive end. You know, we talked earlier about
and have talked about like run defense, and if we
have any concerns about run defense, which I have had some.

(33:28):
That's a much more beefier, more stout. Yeah, that's a
more stout group. And bar Moore is if he can
be more flexible and maybe kick out side a little
bit further. He's played some three to four end in
his career, you know, some over straight up over the
tackle type of stuff. So it's not that it's totally
foreign to him or impossible for him.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
He has the athleticism too, Like at a certain point
you can fall back on athleticism, Yeah, when you're just
that skilled.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah. So I'm I'm pretty bullish on that group. But
the flip side, as I'm sure some people will take it,
is that the blocking could have been better. The blocking
up front could have been better.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
They could have stonewalled them today. They could allowed one
hundred sacks today. I just I don't care until the
pads come on. I know, I'm just saying my part.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, because like now let's say we have a show
to do today.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Let's say Will I know, but let's say Will Campbell
is a really good first day in pads, right, Yeah,
everybody's gonna say, well, I didn't you talk about when
he sucked before, Like because I don't care.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Well, I didn't think it was and the verse too.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
He could have a great I'm just using him as
an example because I like Will Campbell. There's some people
that don't, that still hate that pick get over it,
but there are so you know, I don't. I you know,
I got to set myself up so when I give
that Tate. Was it gonna be Monday, the first day
of pads. Other way too, he could be awesome. He
could be awesome and talk about he's awesome. Oh well, yeah,
you were just waiting because he sucked the first few days. No,

(34:46):
I don't care. I I let me see who's out
there together. If it's a sack because of a blown assignment,
I care about that because pads are no should be assignments.
Sound right, and I'll give you the the center snap
in the ball right, clean snaps, don't put balling. Oh well,
you know this swim move really gave them trouble. They're
not in pads. I don't care. It's not real football.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Well it's fair.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
You're right, were show you today, But that's my take. Today.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Your station's gonna be the one that's doing it.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
I know. And if I was on with them today,
I would say, look, this is I like you can
put stock into it. I'm choosing not to. If the
same thing happens when the pads come on. If we're
still talking.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
About this in ten days, then we have a problem.
Right one day, I don't have a problem yet. I'm
with you on that. I actually the best compliment that
I could probably give Will Campbell with the caveat of again,
like I wish I did, But I don't have access
to the practice film, so I'm not watching it back.
I'm watching this live and trying to pick up as
much as I possibly can. The best compliment I can

(35:45):
give Will Campbell right now is I don't notice Will Campbell.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
That's what I was gonna say. Again, I'm using him
as an example. Thinking back on it, I don't know
how much today I was like, oh, we'll like I
think it was like one play. Yeah, I don't even know.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
There was one rush where I thought Chazon got the
corner on that's what and Drake May had to step
up in the pocket. But you know, Drake May, as
long as there's a good interior of Drake h, he
could have just driven by him.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
It wasn't like Will Campbell was beat so clean that.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
We talked about this. Somebody called in the offices was like,
what's the successful season for Will Campbell? And I think
I remember my answer was we mentioned that he's the
Week one starter and then we don't say his name
again until he's named in All Pro. Yeah, like that's
a successful season.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
So all right, So that's that's pretty much practice. Again.
It was only a ninety minute session, two team periods,
mostly individual drills and just easing back into things here.
Was there anything else that stood out to you? We
also had press conferences, so we mentioned Drake May's comments
about remaining a passer longer. I love that, you know what,

(36:47):
that's great. That was exactly I didn't necessarily think that
he did. It was a detriment to him last year,
Like I didn't necessarily have that takeaway from last year
that oh he left some plays on the field by
taking off a little bit too prematurely, maybe a couple
of times, but nitpicky things, you know. I think it
was totally terrible. But the good news is that he's

(37:09):
established that he's a really good scrambler. So now teams
are going to start to respect him as a scrambler
and he might be a you know, have more gravity
towards him.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Pit's development, it's it's play development, like it's that simple.
Other things that stood out to me. Talked about Drake
May spreading the ball. I like that, talked about the
line rotation, We talked about speed on defense, oh digs.
So his press conference right, Yes, it was all very measured.
He was asked about rehabbing from the knee and talked

(37:41):
about it. You know, it takes time to come back
from this. He's got to work through it. He's asked
about learning the playbook and he said, yeah, you know,
I'm still studying as much as I can, and I'm
excited for it. Receivers have had success, but I'm still
working on it. Chemistry with Drake may you know, that's
going to be a process that's not going to happen
in one day. We're gonna have to work on that,
spend time together on the field, off the field. And
then I think his last answer was just like a

(38:01):
very general like kind of advice to young players. Don't
ride the roller coaster, you know, stay balanced, trust the
process all that night and day. From what we heard
from the wide receiver room last year, and I just
think that approach is going to be important in that room.
Let's not get too high, let's not get too low.
Let's handle this on a day by day basis. You know,

(38:22):
when Diggs was signed, a lot of the talk was
not just what he was gonna bring on the field,
but as a leader, and that's exactly what you're hoping
to hear from him is just a more baseline, nuanced,
less extreme mental approach to all this. And there's other
guys in that room that probably need that, and you
hope he's imparting it on them, and you hope they're listening.
But I thought it was you know, it would have

(38:43):
been really easy for him to come out and say, yeah,
me and Drake are doing great. You know, I love
playing with him, blah blah blah whatever. Give us the
sexy SoundBite that we all want to know is yeah,
you know, we're starting to work together, but it's day
one and we're gonna have a lot more work to do.
Like that's a mature answer, and I think it's a
lot closer to the truth. So I loved what he
had to say after practice. I thought that stuff was excellent.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Oh so, there's one other thing I wanted to get
to before we move on, and we opened it up here.
Jalen Polk.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
So, Jalen Polk ended last year with the shoulder injury
technically on injured reserve. He was on injury re serve
for one year. He had he had surgery in the
off season on the shoulder. We saw him and Digs
working a lot together in the spring off to the
side on the side field when they were doing full
team drills, just running routes against the air. And then
he comes out there today. He's not on the list,

(39:32):
he's not on NFI or PUP, but he's not participating
in practice here today. And on the one hand, I
want to give Jaalen Polk a little bit of grace
because it's again we're gonna keep saying it's one day
for everybody, it's one day for him, like he could
be out there tomorrow, yeah and whatever, but it's not
tracking that way for him. And right now he needs

(39:53):
to prove it, right, Like he needs to go out
there and prove he belongs in this league quickly because
this frank like this regime doesn't know him anything, right,
like Mike Rabele didn't draft him, Like it's not his guy.
I think they like him, but as a person and everything, Like,
I don't think they dislike Jalen Polk by any means.
But at the same time, you can't make the club
from the tub. He's still not on the field. It's

(40:15):
it's hard, it's it's a hard look, right, now.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
No, he's played ketchup. He has to play ketchup. It's
that simple, and you're not doing that from you know,
the rehab field.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, I hope that he gets out there because you
want to see everybody compete. You want to see everybody
compete for roles. But you know, Matt Collins, I think
his role and or his vision of his role is
sort of locked in, as you know, a fourth or
fifth receiver and a special teamer and a leader and
like a veteran presence in the room. You know, Kyle
Williams and Stefan Diggs are going to be here. I

(40:44):
believe that that Pop Douglas is as close to a
lock as you possibly.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
He has to be. They just don't have the speed.
They don't have speed without him.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
So that's four guys, right, there's.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
One or two spots, right, Diggs, Williams, Pop In Hollins.
So are they going to keep five or six? A
lot of people have projected them to seven, myself included.
I kind of did that to make a point. I
don't know how realistic that actually is. So there's one
or two spots, and that's including kender Porn, that's including
Kishon booty. That's including Fton Chisholm. Yeah, so he's got

(41:15):
even if it's seven. Even if it's seven, he has
to pass at least one of those guys. Based on
what we saw in the spring. I don't know that
he's ahead of any of those guys right now.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, he's got to get out there, and he knows it.
Like I'm not telling him anything, saying anything that I'm
sure he's not thinking himself. But we're going to open
up the emails and the phones now. But before we do, Hey,
football fans, enter the Patriots Road Trip Raffle for your
chance to travel to New Orleans as the Patriots take
on the Saints on October twelfth. One lucky fan will
receive two tickets on a private charter to the game,

(41:45):
tickets to the game, hotel, accommodations, and much more. Enter
for a chance to win for just ten dollars. All
proceeds benefit the Patriots Foundation. To purchase your tickets to
visit www dot patriots dot com slash community. So this
is the trip to New Orleans and so where the
Patriots are going to play the Saints. I said this
earlier as well. I keep repeating that but whatever, Uh,

(42:05):
the Saints, the New Orleans game, in the Tampa game,
or the two games I have circled on my calendar
as my the road trips I'm most looking forward to.
That is going to be a fun time in the
Bayou in Nola and the.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Other crazy thing we I think we did this during
the offseason. That's as far west as they go, right,
what's further west?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I believe New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
So that's as far west as they go.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Well, it's gonna be a good trip. That come on
like preason a weekend on Bourbon Street. From everything I heard,
the restaurants down there are fantastic.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's gonna be a good time to go to New
Orleans and drunk.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I just
said it's going to be a good time, and I
have not. You want me to humble back again. I
have not been to New Orleans since Super Bowl thirty six,
so so it's it would be fun to go as
an adult I was. I was nine years old the
last time I was in New Orleans. So enter to
win that raffle and you two can be going to

(42:58):
New Orleans to watch the Patriots play the New Orleans
Saints plus no offense New Orleans Saints. I kind of
think that's dub like I'm kind of marking that one
as w.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
I mean that team's objectively not great.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, that team is not very good on paper. All right,
you guys have been waiting on the phone line, so
let's get you started here. Nate is in Connecticut. What's
going on, Nate?

Speaker 6 (43:21):
Not much, you guys. Hey, So my question for you
guys is about the intensity during the training camp today
compared to the other years. How would you say Mike
vay Bo's approach to the intensity of this camp was
was it fast paced or would you say it was
more chilling and relaxed. And how would you say the

(43:44):
intensity dictated the competitiveness, like if if it was high intensity,
high competitiveness, and if it was like low intensity and
it was just a chill practice.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Thank you guys, No problem, Nate. I would say it's
probably a better question to ask us in like a
week from now, but I would I would say, just
in general, going back to the spring, there's been an
intensity to practice, like there's it feels a lot more
and this is not a shot, but it feels a
lot more like a Belichick practice where there's not as
much wasted time in between plays, like it's play play

(44:18):
play play. It's very game like in that's in that scenario.
And also you know, just watching like them break huddles
and stuff like Mike rabel is like the first he's
sprinting across the fields like to the next thing. He's
a he's a maniac. Like, the guy's an absolute maniac
on the practice field. So he sets a tone to
have a pace and have a tempo to practice. That's

(44:38):
game like feel, So I would if I had to say,
I I think it feels more maybe not endo Belichick
and the Belichick got a little got a little soft frankly,
like there was there is a little bit of like
you know, trying to like not be as much of
a hard o to the veteran players and things like that.
But what I remember of like early Belichick for me,

(45:00):
you know, like eighteen nineteen, that time, uh, that dis practice.
These practices feel more like that.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, last year it was a lot more just get
into eleven's and go. I think there's more instructional periods
this year. It is that game likes a good way
to put it. And he kind of talked about it.
For Abel did before practice today, like, you don't have
all this time in between plays in a game, so
I take it in practice when it comes to substitutions
and breaking the huddle and getting lined up. I actually
didn't see. I meant to look. I don't think they

(45:29):
had a play clock set up out there. I'd like
a big one, but I wouldn't be surprised if Rabel
or maybe Stretch or you know, one of those other
coaches or staffers is keeping one like on a stopwatch,
right making sure they're out in forty seconds.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
There's absolutely an emphasis on making a game like where
you run a play, yeah, and then you run immediately
back by run a play.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
He talked about, you know, it's not all we're gonna
run the play. We're gonna talk about what we liked,
what we didn't like, that we're gonna run the next play.
He said, Like you can do that all on the field,
get out there and run the place. And that's they
fit a lot in. Like it didn't. It didn't feel
as like when they got done, I was we're already done.
Like it felt like a lot longer than it was.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
So it's right into the time that they had.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
I think it it increases by fifteen minutes until it
gets to two hours.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
That sounds right at this point.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
I think you can actually technically might be able to
go two hours and fifteen once we really get into
the meta training camp. But right now today was ninety
I think tomorrow they're permitted for one oh five and
then like it kind of keeps going right from there.
So it was a quick practice today, but the practices
will get longer and obviously the pads will come on
and they'll get tougher as well. Patty is an aguam.

(46:41):
What's up Patty?

Speaker 5 (46:43):
What's up?

Speaker 7 (46:44):
Ken?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
How are we doing.

Speaker 7 (46:47):
Doing all right?

Speaker 8 (46:49):
First off?

Speaker 7 (46:50):
Non well sort of footballer Jason Alex site, I enjoy
listening to you Sundays when you're on when you're on
the Hub.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, and thank you.

Speaker 7 (46:58):
One of the things that I love that you slip
in as though subtle, it's always funny in Philadelphia references.
I didn't know you were a fan, And yes, I
love that show.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Nothing on the New Seas, don't tell me anything on
New Season. I haven't seen it yet, but yeah.

Speaker 7 (47:10):
Fan either.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, that's one of like the few things that haven't
actually a fun show.

Speaker 8 (47:15):
Yeah, all right, So just going back to football, the
two guys I want to ask questions about was I'm sorry,
I plead ignorance on this, was there anything wrong with
Austin Hooper during the spring workouts that that made him
fill on the list.

Speaker 7 (47:30):
And is there anything out there as to that's being
reported as to why DL and Poke didn't practice today?
And I'll take it out there, guys.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Thanks Patty. So Austin Hooper undisclosed injury. I don't think
anybody's reported the exact injury yet, but I do remember
him tweaking something in the spring and uh and not
practicing towards the end of the spring, or at least
being extremely limited in the spring practices. So when he
opened the camp on PUP I wasn't surprised. I do

(48:00):
remember that happening. So I don't know what the injury is.
I don't think there's a report out there on exactly
what the injury is that he's dealing with, but no
positive news I would say is if Rabeled yesterday did
say that he didn't feel like anybody was going to
miss like significant training camp time that was on a list,
so hopefully that includes Austin Hooper, and it won't be

(48:22):
long until he gets back out there. Because Hunter Henry
in a nice catch today up the scene. He continues
to be Hunter Henry, and we know Hooper can be
a really steady and reliable backup. But after those two
guys at tight End, Alex, I don't have a whole
lot of confidence in anybody else in that room yet. Now,
hopefully somebody makes some plays and starts to flash, or
whether it's Westover, Jane Bell or one of the undrafted

(48:46):
guys you know, Dupre or g Scott. But right now
I feel like that no one's really taken that tight
end three position by the Horns quite yet. Now it's
way early, but it just hasn't happened.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
No, it'll it'll be. I mean, star Wars getting most
of the run, so you figure he's probably the leader.
There's still that lingering thing with CJ. Dupree. If they
want a blocker, he fits, but he's gonna have to
like show it right when pads come on. But they
I still think there's a real chance they just keep
two tight ends and then it's practice squad elevations for
the first month or so of.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
The season and Lampia, of course, I can't forget.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Well, he's a full I think he's just gonna play
full back.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Well he won't play full back, but yes, he will
be on the I think he will be with the
tight ends with Jalen Polk. It's the show. It's got
to be the shoulder. I don't know what I prognosed.
There's no reason to believe anything else.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
So when he was out there in the spring, like,
he was running routes pretty full speed, so I can't
imagine its lower body.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Right.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Then again, Diggs was running full speed and that was
an a C L So maybe that doesn't try it.
But like we didn't see I didn't see him wearing
any sort of brace or sleeve or like outside of
the ordinary. Right, So yeah, I would.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
I would speculate, obviously, but speculate shoulder. It's the shoulder,
and no one knows. There's no timeline of when exactly
he's gonna be and practicing again. All right, Randy is
in Providence. What's up, Randy?

Speaker 5 (50:06):
Hey guys, how's it going to that?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Hey? Good?

Speaker 3 (50:10):
So I had a couple of quench questions for you,
real quick off the top, I was wondering how you
guys thought the defensive coordinator. Terrell Williams looked like I
know Rabel and a lot of his coaches really get
actively involved, and I was wondering if he was that way.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
He was a little more kind of relaxed and not
as not as active.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, thanks for the call, Randy. So just to put
some background on that, Terrell Williams is here, he's with
the team. He was coaching today. He was not in
the spring due to a health issue. Thankfully for him,
it seems like that is he's been cleared and and
you know, good to go, as Rabel joked yesterday, is
not on pup or whatever, so that's good news. I

(50:55):
don't think that Terrell Williams is as hands on of
a coach as Mike Rabel is, just based off of
what I've heard about Terrell Williams, Terrell Williams does seem
like more of like to sit back and observe and
make corrections later type of guy. So that's how I
would say it. But it was one practice like I
wouldn't put too much emphasis on that, but it was

(51:16):
good to see him back out there. I just think
in general, it's a little not a concern, but like
a little bit of an unknown. What exactly his play
calling style is going to be, how exactly they're going
to handle third down? Like, are they gonna be blitz heavy?
Are they gonna be are they going to be a
coverage team? Like? Is he a drop eight guy? Is
he a send the house guy right?

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Like?

Speaker 2 (51:38):
I don't know yet? Is he both? Is he a
mix and match guy? Is he a two high guy?
Single high guy? Like? These are all things that I
am interested to see from Terrell Williams because he doesn't
really have a whole lot of play calling experience in
his coaching history. We know Rabel can call plays on
the defense, but Terrell Williams hasn't done a ton and
according to Rabel, it's gonna be Terrell Williams that's gonna

(51:59):
call the defense. So we don't necessarily get that in
practice per se. But the Terrell Williams of it. All
the good news is that he's here and that he's
actively coaching in practice, but it's still an unknown, a
little bit of what exactly he's going how exactly he's
going to coordinate this defense.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah, I agree with all that there's nothing to say, like,
how does he look.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
It's not a player, so yeah, he can't.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Really do that, especially this early. But it's good.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
He's back.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
It's good, he's back.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, Yeah, it's good. All right. Emory is in Virginia.
A lot of calls. I love it.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
What's up, Emory, Good afternoon, gentlemen, football as well. He
excited about camp. A kid that I'm interested in is
Alex Austin cornerback. Give me some positive feedback on that kid, please.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yeah, thanks for the call, Emory. Alex Austin is an
interesting one because there's two I was on with our
buddy Taylor and Mike had like on the ceiling this
podcast the other day. We were talking about this, and
there's a world where Alex Austin's body type fits the
slot cornerback role. That that big slot that Rabel has

(53:07):
said is going to be more prominent maybe in this
defense than the Patriots have had it in the past.
But I really have always viewed Alex Austen as like
a rotational outside cordner where maybe you're in a matchup
where you know their best receiver is really like a
Z or an inside receiver. So Christian Gonzalez is playing
more that week on the inside because he's shadowing somebody

(53:28):
inside a lot. And so now you need like a
third outside corner that has some size and that can
hold up in a high volume outside role. And then
you don't have to put like a five foot eight
Marcus Jones out on the boundary right because you have
a six foot Alex Austin to put out there. That's
the way I view Alex Austin. We've talked about it

(53:48):
a million times, like more like in that Jason mccordy
type of archetype where it's like he's the third corner.
He's gonna play a lot in certain matchups. He might
not play as much in other matchups. But then there
are other people that I kind of wonder if you
could play a little bit in the slot.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
So I do both. I wonder if he can do
both and just kind of be like a Swiss army
knife backup. I mean, I was putting a lot on
the kid, but you know, he's smart player. Think he
could handle it. If you want something on him from today,
I don't know if you want to put any stock
and the guys that were leading the stretch lines early
in practice. So this is a little different under Vrabel.
It's like a high school style stretch where the team's

(54:24):
kind of in a grid and the guys at the
front by the coaches are backfacing the rest of the team.
You know what I'm talking about. Yes, So the guys again,
we'll see, maybe this will change day to day. And
obviously these players are on slightly different standing as I
go through this list, But the players leading the stretch
lines today I had, so maybe I missed somebody, but
I had Stephan in no particular order, well it was

(54:44):
the order, just they were by position, Stefan Diggs, Antonio Gibson,
Drake May, Morgan Moses, Jalen Hawkins, Robert Splane, Alex Austin
and Jalen Hawkins twice, Christian Gonzalez, Garrett Bradbury City, So
Hunter Henry and Truman Jones. So Alex Austin leading a
stretch line. Make of that what you will. I don't
know if that'll rotate or if that'll be the same

(55:05):
thing every day. But I didn't notice him doing that,
and so like him, Truman Jones City, so kind of
different standing than some of those other guys. Hunter Henry
Morgan Moses even step on Diggs. So I don't know
what to make of that, but he was doing it.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
So I think the reason why I kind of stray
away from him as a slocky for me particularly is
just the strength to me of Alex Austin's game is
playing the deep part of the field. Like I think
he's really good at playing the deep ball. He's good
at winning a down the field at catch points, making
plays on the football down the field. I don't know
if like he's he's like a little high like cut in.

(55:42):
I don't know if he has that true like change
of direction to handle like a jitterbug slot right, Like
if you're going to be inside and you're going up
against like a quicker you know, edel Midwelker mold type
of receiver, I like, that's Marcus Jones.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, so that's I think that that's probably the idea
is you know, you would think that the coach staff
they're gonna kind of tailor that. So against the Dolphins, right,
you're gonna have Marcus Jones out there. But when you
played the Bengals with Andre Yoshavas, right, who's that bigger,
more physical guy. Because the other thing about Alex Austin,
even if he's not that ideal cover fit, part of
the reason you use a big slot is to be

(56:15):
better against the run, which I think he can do
because he's physical, right, he doesn't mind contact, So I
think in certain matchups it makes sense. And that's why,
Like he's your he's your backup in both spots. He's
your backup boundary corner and he's your backup slot corner,
so you can kind of use him as a matchup
piece wherever you think he's best. Now, when guys get hurt, right,

(56:36):
I don't know that. Let's say you don't have Marcus
Jones for the Dolphins game. Now you might have to pivot.
Now do you look at a guy like Marcellus Dial
or even Isaiah Bolden. But as a matchup guy, I
don't hate him in the big slot in some situations.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
So the last thing on Alex Austin that I wanted
to say, which, of course now I'm totally forgetting what
it was. So let's go to Eldred and I will
remember it well. I you know, right far here, all right, Dred?
What's up? How are we doing.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
There?

Speaker 2 (57:02):
He is in the truck love it.

Speaker 5 (57:04):
Hey tell us that y'all doing to day and I
did take congratulations They have.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Him right, thank you, yes, thank you?

Speaker 7 (57:12):
Yeah, yeah, okay, question my doune cast is a jun jow.

Speaker 5 (57:18):
I know you've been on a practice squad.

Speaker 7 (57:20):
I know he'd been doing this and that. But he
said he did pretty good at Spring, but he didn't
catch nothing gets made.

Speaker 5 (57:26):
Any can't you beat home without just any chant?

Speaker 7 (57:32):
I know he's thirty one, needs the guys hurt whatever,
but it's a young movie I'm looking at.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yeah, that that's a fair question. Fair question. Eldred, thanks
for the cause always and h We did a guess
the picture thing yesterday where like we had our callers
sending pictures of themselves. All of us got Eldrick correct.
We all knewho Aldred was. So that's how you know
how much of a religious caller Eldred is because we
all recognized him. John Giles is. Paul Perrillo actually threw

(58:03):
his name out earlier today on our show, which I
was shocked at because Paul always likes to joke that
like he doesn't really know the back of the roster
very well, and all of a sudden he's just pulling
out John Giles. But John Giles is I love like
the size in the speed combo that he has, Like
he's got he's got like that tool you know in

(58:23):
his belt of He's a big dude that can move
pretty well for his size. Yeah, But to me that
projects to like a scout team role, right, where like
he's gonna be a scout team X, he's gonna be
somebody that you know, we're going up against his six
foot three, like a DK Metcalf type, right, And this
is like we have John Giles, who's obviously not DK Metcalf,
but we can sort of mimic what DK Metcalf does

(58:45):
with John Giles. That's how I view John Giles currently.
Maybe he'll change my mind. I just don't know if
i'd view John Giles as a roster guy. I kind
of view him as a practice question.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Yeah, I mean there's still some of his game that
he's rounding out. He had a drop today. Like you said,
he's a good player to have in the building, but
probably more of a practice squad guy.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Okay, So here's what I remember what I was gonna
say about Alex Austin. One of the things that's been
on my mind about this defense in general, and we're
kind of we're opening up to anything you guys want
to talk about. You can email us as well at
it always changes. It's podcast at Patriots dot Com. You
can email us there too if you want to get
in on the emails we don't have. I feel like

(59:23):
we've put a bow on today's practice. I don't have
much more to add, but just as a general thought
on the team moving forward, I've been thinking a lot
about like how they're going to cover tight ends, And
I don't know if Kyle Dugart or Jabriel Peppers has
ever been great at covering tight ends in man coverage.
Like not to pick on them. I think they're good
in different things, but I don't know if that's an

(59:45):
area of strength for either one of those guys. And nowadays,
you know, you go through their schedule, even week one,
right out of the shoot, you're gonna have brock powers
right coming here. There's these tight ends that are really
just jumpbo receivers, Like they're just big, slow brought Bowers
as a receiver, like brop Owers is not gronk, like
he's not putting his hand in the dirt and blocking

(01:00:05):
people at a high level. He's a receiver. He's a
really good one. Obviously, they have guys like Kinkaid and
Buffalo who they're gonna see twice a year, like another
one of those types of guys. I wonder if some
of these corners are in the mix in terms of
covering some tight ends as well. Like Alex Austin seems
like a guy it's got some size, got some coverage ability.
Maybe in certain matchups if you're playing a more receiving

(01:00:28):
tight end like a brock Ours, maybe it's it's a
guy like Alex Austin. We've seen them do this in
the Belichick years in the past. Gilmour had a couple
of games against like high level tight ends that he
would take the tight end. I remember J C. Jackson
did it in the AFC Championship game for a while
against Travis Kelce for a good part of that game.
So maybe that's something that they could explore with Alex Austin.

(01:00:51):
Maybe it's you know, Austin. Isaiah Bolden's another one there.
Maybe it's Carlton Davis like covering some tight ends too,
as a guy that's a little bit bigger and a
little bit more physical. I just don't know exactly how
they're gonna do it because it was so easy to
predict how a Belichick defense was going to handle a
tight end. You know, that could really impact the game.

(01:01:11):
How do you feel about them covering tight ends and
like how they might go about that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
So, Alex Austin's won and I was gonna bring that
up before when we were talking about It's actually funny
you said that. I also think Craig Woodson is probably
guy that's in the mix there. He seemed to have
some success with that in spring, had some success that
it in college, especially like Marcus Apps was back at
it today. Jalen Hawkins remains involved. So if those are
your deep safeties, look I get it now, you're putting
Ford safeties on the field. These guys aren't always gonna

(01:01:38):
be on the field at the same time. Or maybe
this is instead of the slot corner or whatever. Right
you're with that big nickel is a big nickel safety.
I'm gonna be interested to see Craig Woodson once we
get into one on ones working on Hunter Henry and
hopefully Austin Hooper's back, and how he does against those guys,
because I think he's got a pretty good profile for it.
You just got to see if he can do it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yeah, I wonder if some of those corners get in
that mix, because Craig Woodson, I agree, could do some
of that thing. That stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I watched some of his tape covering tight ends in
college when they drafted him, like the Syracuse game against
Gats and the tight end like but Gatson, it didn't
go so well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
So yeah, I wouldn't put him on like a brock
Bowers type, and that Gats is obviously not brock Bowers.
But the idea that Gatson literally was a wide receiver
right until I think last year, but the more traditional
inline guys I think he could he might be able
to hang with.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Yeah, I could see that, but maybe it's one of
those corners. The other thing that I've been randomly thinking
about because I just randomly think about these types of
things sometimes. Although I tried not to on my honeymoon.
Don't worry all.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Right, that was the one time and I was not
worried in eight years that I probably that I think
I managed to not think about football twenty four to seven.
But the one other thing that I've been thinking a
lot about Kean White, Christian Barmore, Milton Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
I can see how you can get all three of
those guys on in like more of like a base
Nickel type of look, like a four down on look
with all three of those guys, but at the same time. Ideally,
especially on third down, all three of those guys are
best rushing over the guards right like they like all
three of them are guys that you want as interior

(01:03:14):
pocket pushers, like pass rushers on the inside, especially Keon
Like I think Millon Williams and Barmore fit that too.
But just my I guess where I'm going with this,
Like how do you get all three of those guys
in in their sweet spot at the same time, and
how do they go about doing that? How does Terrell
Williams go about doing that? Is going to be an

(01:03:34):
interesting thing because all three of those guys I think
are too good to take off the field on third down.
Like you want all three of those guys rushing on
third down. But does that mean that one of those
guys is rushing kind of not at their best spot,
Like maybe it's Kean White and he just has to
rush over the tackle or outside the tackle, even though
he's not really naturally bendy or like meant to do that.

(01:03:56):
It's an interesting problem to have, Like it's not even
a problem, it's just kind of like it's a puzzle
of trying to fit that all together. I'm really curious
of what their fronts look like because I think some
of their fronds when it comes to like there's no rules, right,
you can do whatever you want. I think some of
their friends, not that they're going to reinvent the wheel,
but they might be kind of exotically. It might be

(01:04:17):
kind of fun, like to just chart them and look
at them and see what they do week to week
in terms of that, because they have three guys that
ideally are from zero to three technique on third down,
whether you know Williams, bar More, Keon White, and how
do they manage to get all three of them on
the field all at once on third down is gonna

(01:04:38):
be like a fun little wrinkle. It's kind of like
a challenge, honestly for the coaching staff. Do you see
what I'm saying? Because it's kind of redundant, right, Like
all three of those guys together are a little bit
redundant in some respects.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Yeah, but like you said, I think that works in
this defense because there's no rules. It's kind of just
pin your ears back and going. At that point, I
think you're looking at individual ability more than like the
fit there is who's behind them. You want to have
a linebacker that fits with them. If those two guys
can get home, those three guys can get home, or
four guys can get home, it doesn't really matter who
does it. As long as there's somebody behind them, we
can clean up. It's just look, we're all gonna have
to adjust. This is all new.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
It's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
It's very I like it. I like it. It's good.
So I was it's funny. I was like explaining it
to my brother the other day, and so I was like, yes,
it's like more aggressive and there's less about containing. He's like, oh,
so guys are gonna get blown by I'm like, no,
that's not how Like, it's just different. It's not better
or worse. It's a different philosophy. This thing executed at
a high level is better than that thing executed at

(01:05:35):
a low level. That thing at a high level is
better than this at a low level. It's just do
you have the personnel to fit it and can you
execute it? And they overhaul the personnel this offseason and
bar Moore is just so good he can fit anything.
So it's gonna be interesting to see how it goes.
But yeah, it's gonna be an adjustment period because again
it's not you're not looking all right, well, this guy's
gonna two gap and then this guy's gonna occupy the edge.

(01:05:56):
Just go. It's just get out of your stance and go.
And you're more worried about the linebacker handling the finer points,
whereas in the other one it was those guys having
the details and you're telling the linebacker just go, just
pick a hole and go and get downhill and clog
it up. It's it's basically the same. It's just inverted.
The whole thing's just inverted.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
So I do wonder with Barmore. Yeah, there's some guys like,
you know, not to put him on this expectation, but.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Like Chris Jones, Yeah, with the Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Chris Jones plays a lot of defensive end for Kansas City.
He's not a pure tackle tackle. Yeah, he's like a
hybrid guy that plays a lot outside or over the
tackle is like a five technique or whatever. I could
see bar Moore evolving into that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
I see Milli Williams doing that too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
See I think Millon Williams, like I could see him
doing it because he's talented. He could probably do anything.
But like, I think they really want to put Millon
Williams at his natural position at the three technique Jeffrey
Simmons style and just let him eat well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
The other thing about it is when you're in this setup,
when you're in a three four, even if you're playing end,
you might be a three four end lined up in
a spot where a four to three tackle would be.
So Christian Barmber can be an end in that he's
uncovered on the defensive line, but they could do that

(01:07:14):
from a narrow split and like he's still taking on
at guards outside shoulder, which he might be doing as
a tackle if they're playing the end out wide in
a four to three, So you can mimic some of
that stuff. I think it's kind of the break outside
the tackle, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, we talk about techniques like five techniques straight up
over the tackle. Four IY is like inside shaded.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Like how much are you playing even if he's playing end,
is he playing end wider than a five tech.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
No, but I think he might play a lot more
of that four I five.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
But there are times whereas a defensive tackle, you're playing
four in a four to three, not a three four,
but in a four to three. Uh, because you're gonna
put Maybe because there I'm going on mixing defenses here,
but like you're gonna put Ninkovic out in a five
wide right, and he's the defensive end. You're gonna put
him all the way out there. So maybe you're your defense.
It's a tackle right, Vince will Fork, that's your nose.
You're not gonna put. And I don't know why I'm

(01:08:05):
using an old defense to do this with bar Moore.
I'm just thinking the players who played the roles. Yeah,
you're not gonna put bar more you know, half a
gap over from the nose. That just doesn't make any sense.
So some of it still translates.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
What it really comes down to is not like we
don't have to get caught up in the minutia of
the techniques. It's the gaps right, like are you playing
the A the B or you're playing the edge right? Like,
which what are you doing? Gap wise? So you can
line up bar More in a couple of different spots,
and technically he still has the B gap right, whether

(01:08:39):
he's a three technique, whether he's a four, I, whether
he's a five up over the tackle like five's usually
are more of like a two gapping role, like you're
playing both of it, and that's what the four.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
And he has a linebacker over his shoulder, he probably
isn't gonna be responsible for the edge. It's gonna be
that linebacker unless they're having like a twist or something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Right, So I've meant to see what they do with
bar Moore because I think that his role is going
to be pretty versatile in terms of kicking out a
little bit further to free up opportunities for key On
White to rush a little bit more inside.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Well, then there's a key. I think key On White's
the real chess piece. I can't white and play anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Yeah, he has played everywhere. I assume that that's going
to continue as well. Alex's bind the glass. We have
any emails, I feel like we don't have it. We
don't have any emails.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
I am shocked by They just want to talk about practice.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
They just want us to talk about practice. All right, Well,
I'm going to talk about YouTube. I noticed that there's
no emails, and I am so surprised. I usually we
get tons of emails. What's going on out there? All right?
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pa ts and you know I'm gonna for old times sake.

(01:10:08):
Hey Patriots fans, if you want to see Toyota's best offers,
including those nazeen on TV, go to buy a Toyota
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official vehicle of the New England Patriots, Toyota Let's go places.
I feel like I haven't read that one in a while,
so I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
I mean, we haven't been You guys got a show
two weeks ago, but that was pre recorded we haven't
done a show in like three weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
I know it's been a while. All right, Colleen is
in Texas. What's up colleing?

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Hey guys.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
So I was wondering about the pup list. So if
Jalen Polk wasn't able to perform, why wouldn't he be
on that list? I guess, like, is there more to
it than that? And thanks for taking my call, No
problem calling.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
It's a great question.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
That's that's question.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
It's a very fair question. The pup list is made
for players like Jalen Polk, guys that experienced football injuries
in a football game or football practice at the facility
and are not able to practice. So I couldn't tell
you why they didn't place them on pup I don't know.
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
And you can activate him anytime you I mean until
the season starts, you can activate him any time you want.
Like was on it and then he was off the
bit between him getting placed in the first practice, he
was taken off. So no, that's a good question. I
was a little surprised that Polk wasn't on there that
if he can't participate, unless they thought he was going
to be able to participate today and something happened.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Yeah. I don't really understand that one either, So we'll
see what goes on with him tomorrow. Or like you said,
maybe it was they anticipated that he was going to
be a good to go and they got out there
practice and he just wasn't ready. I have no idea.
It is an interesting thing I would also want to
put out there. I want to talk a little bit

(01:11:52):
more about the left guard position now. I have some
emails coming in and we can get to those as well.
But we mentioned Cole Strange was with the top unit
for most of it. We did see Kayden Wallace a
little bit at left guard. We basically saw everybody a
little bit at left guard, like Caden. And I don't
mean with the top group, but I just mean in
general within practice. So cole Strange right now has got
the inside track. I think that he's gonna think you

(01:12:13):
said it earlier, like something's gonna have to go wrong
probably for Cole Strange shall lose that job, like he's
gonna ye, his performance is going to have to really suffer.
So Cole Strange, Caden Wallace was in there as well,
which is interesting. I did see Jared Wilson take a
few reps there at left guard, and Leydon Robinson took
a few as well. Now this isn't just with Drake,

(01:12:35):
with all the different quarterbacks, but I still remain interested
in the Kayden Wallace experiment of moving him inside. But
it does really feel like left guard is is Cole
Strange's job to lose.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
That feels more secure than center right now. Which again
I was the one saying there was going to be
a center battle, but I didn't think it was gonna
be this quick, this much.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting thing. All right, Let's get
to some of these emails. So Zach is in South Carolina.
He emails in he says, where does mac Collins fit
with this offense? Along with to Von Diggs and Hunter Henry,
I feel like his name isn't mentioned as much. He
seems like you'd be a great playmaker. Along with his
costumes he wears every Sunday. He does wear some great

(01:13:18):
fits every Sunday. So Matt Collins, I actually really think
MATC Collins. Maybe I have Matt Collins like more closely
to a lock than other people do, I guess is
the best way to put it. Yeah, I feel like
some people have thrown him out there as like a
surprise cut candidate. The reason why Zach he hasn't been
talked about is because he's not practicing. Like it's hard

(01:13:39):
to talk about a guy that's not practicing. But I
just look at MATC. Collins as like it's just the
overall role on the team. A guy that's a veteran
is known as a leader, is known as a guy
that's a good example for younger guys that room needed,
like a culture shit. Ye, And he's like a culture
kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Guy that he can play in the kick game. They
gave him just enough money where it's worth mentioning. They
gave him enough money that like if they walked away,
wouldn't be the end of the world, would be notable.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
I think it's like four million dollars, right, I think
he's gonna be here. Uh kind of related on YouTube, Bunts,
it not Brunson, So don't worry Buns. And would you
be surprised if Baker makes the team over Polk.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Yes, But I think with Javon Baker, the issue for
him is like is he at best like the third
string X right now? Because like if you consider Stefon
Diggs and Kyle Williams are probably gonna play a little
bit in that spot, you know, at least split it
or whatever you want to call it. They're gonna play

(01:14:44):
a little bit there. Kayshan Boody's gonna play, I think
is gonna make the team, and he's gonna play there,
or at least as ahead of Javon Baker from making
the team right now. So Javon Baker, it's just more
in a lot of ways, I just feel like there's
a lot of there's bodies in front of him, as
well as the fact that he was only a fourth
round pick and had a second round pick, and he

(01:15:04):
still has some of the similar issues in terms of
performance that we've seen out of Jale and Polk. So
I still feel like I give Polk a little bit
of of an edge there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
I still think with Polk there's a chance he maybe
opens on ir if he's not fully back or so
what they could do. So, I don't remember the last
time this happened. I know you can do it, but
I remember the last time it happened with the Patriots.
So you're ineligible for pup once you practice Polk technically
didn't practice today? Could they put him on pup tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
I guess they wanted to if he didn't officially practice,
and I suppose, yeah, you can't. Only the rules is
you can't go on people once you've actually.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
So I remember Barmore last year, like they couldn't put
him on pup because he stretched once, right, So I did,
because then you save the IR spot, like I if
Polk so behind, I because I Diggs. We talked about
like where he was in the spring to where he
is now, he made progress. Polk doesn't feel like or
I mean, this is what he was limited in the spring.

(01:16:01):
He didn't do any real team drills in the spring.
He's not doing it now. There is no progress there.
Maybe there's progress within that, but it's not a lot.
Do they put him on pup or do they wait
till the end? It can't put him on IR and
do you want to count that as making the team
or not? But like not on the initial fifty three
but still here?

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Yeah, agreed? All right? David and Span emails and he
has a bone to pick with me, which I know
you love when people have bones suspected me. He does
love our show. I know you do, David, you're a
longtime listener. I appreciate that. So this is going back
to the draft. So we're putting training camp to the
side for a second. We're going back to the draft.
And this is a little long, So do you bear
with me here? So he says that I have a
huge bone to pick with Evan about the Henderson versus

(01:16:41):
Luther Burden debate, which is a debate like that they
could have picked either one of those.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
They were never drafting Luther Burt, but they will discuss the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Two even even I hate when people do that, and
I just did it to myself. Evan said that if
Burden became a star player, people would forget about the
circumstances and quotes why the Patriots didn't pick him, and
the culture problem in quotes again, which is a big
sea concern pre draft, and I call it bs Evan.
I still stand by that. If let me finish the email,

(01:17:10):
then we can we can Rebut if it was a
perennial playoff team that drabbed him, then I would understand
your point. But it's no other than the Chicago Bears,
another team with the first year head coach and a
culture problem, especially in that wider serier room with the
attitude of DJ Moore. Okay, if Burton becomes a star,
he'll be considered a better pick than Henderson due to
positional value, and there are no excuses. I love Henderson

(01:17:31):
and still believe he's a great pick, but that is
the reality of the Chicago has rolled the dice that
the Patriots chose not to and the outcome has not
been seen. Okay, I don't really understand the point here
that he's made.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Right, No, it sounds like he agrees with you, Like
you know, if Burton's good, people are gonna harp on that,
just like they harped on them. They forgot with Lad mccaukey.
Lad mccaukeye at a back injury, yeah, Ladd mccaukee at
a history of injury issues like chronic injury issues that
I don't I can't sit here and tell you that's
why the Patriots didn't take him. I don't know. I
wasn't in a room. That's part of the reason he

(01:18:01):
fell as far as he did. And there were teams
that had him ranked much lower because of the injuries. Yeah,
but we forget about that because he's a good player.
Because it worked out. So yeah, no, same thing's gonna
happen with Burden. I forget which side of it you
were on, but that's how.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
I was on that side. Yeah, Like I said that,
if the one the comparison I always come back to
because to me, this is the one that that grinds
my gears the most is George Pickens.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Like George Pickens, George Pickens would not have worked here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
It's a different time period of Patriots football, a different era,
but it's the same thing. Like George Pickens came into
the league, he was hurt. First of all, he had
an injury. That's different from Luther Burden. But George Pickens
had towards a cl in college. He didn't play a
ton of college football. But on top of that, he
also had some concerns about character. He had some characters.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
I mean, he also didn't play because he got suspended
a couple.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Yes, they were a legit character concerns, which by the way,
pretty much followed him to Pittsburgh too. But like I know,
he's productive when he plays, but he kind of wore
it as welcome in Pittsburgh as well, and that's why
he's not there anymore. So all that being said, Uh,
nobody looks at the George Pickens draft and says the
Patriots were right to pass on George Pickens because if

(01:19:11):
his attitude problems or his character concerns, they only look
at the production that George Pickens has had in Pittsburgh
and will probably have in Dallas and use it against
the Patriots. It's like this big thing. That's what I
was saying about burden. It burden goes on to be
George Pickens in Chicago and he's a he's a you know,
brand name. I don't know if George Pickens is a star,
but like he's a good player.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Uh that tackle on Thorne.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
We are going to be taught and Treyvon Henderson could
be equally as good. And maybe this will go away.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
I will because a running back versus receiver. But people say,
what would you rather have the star receiver start running back?
But it won't be as loud, it won't But and
but at least for me, I don't want to speak
forre you for me, it's not to excuse it, it's
just you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
I hate.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
You can't grade the draft. I don't want to say
you can't grade the draft. Retroactively, but like, you can't
ignore that. You could argue, oh, they shouldn't care so
much about these character things and they should have taken them,
But you can't sit there and say, why didn't they
take them? We know why they didn't take George Pickens.
We were pretty good idea why they didn't take George Pickens.

(01:20:15):
Were a pretty good idea why they didn't take Luther Burden.
If you want to say that they're weighing certain things
more than they should be weighing them, that's a fair argument.
But you can't say, oh, you know, they thought he sucked.
You know, they blew the evaluation right, because that's not
by all reporting, that's not what happened. Yeah, they we
do this all the time. At the draft, they didn't

(01:20:35):
believe the guy. So I feel like the medical.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
Misunderstood or because misheard me. I don't know, maybe I
did a bad job of explaining it. I was saying
that if Luther Burden goes on to be a star player,
nobody's going to care that Luther Burden had character concerns
coming out of college. It's going to be the Patriots
passed on another star receiver, and it was Luther Burdon.
We're gonna be putting him in the category of AJ

(01:20:59):
Brown and a DK Metcalf and Terry McLaurin and George
Pickens and like all the other ones that everybody always
talks about all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Yeah, that's it. I'll a get I'll even throw Latin
Conky in her. I was hasn't about Latin Conking, not
because I thought he couldn't play because he the injuries. Yeah,
he had pretty significant and maybe they still come up.
Malcolm Mitchell had a really good first year, right, right,
And I'm not talking much better for it, right and
I'm not rooting for it. But like, you gotta go
back to the moment the pick was made. You can't

(01:21:29):
just throw away I get it. We see what these
players do and ultimately you're gonna look at that retroactively.
You can't throw away all the contact, all the contacts
that existed when the pick was made. Either. That's not fair.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Okay, So some more bones to pick with me. Today.
It was a big day for dogs, big day for dogs.
I think like twenty dogs got really good. I think
something like that. Twenty dogs got adopted.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
So when I Vrabel took that was it uh neat.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Yeah, yeah, I looked like anything like that. Stefan Diggs
certainly liked the dog he was dogged in, Like, so, uh,
Paul is not a dog guy, okay, and I'm a
big dog guy. As you know, Fred is a dog guy.
He has a dog, and Duce just adopted a dog
a couple of months ago, so he's adopting a dog
lifestyle as well. So Paul is the only curmudgeon that

(01:22:16):
doesn't like dogs. So today we were talking about what
would be the best breed of dog to give to
Paul because Paul was a very much you know, he's lukewarm.
He's not gonna get a dog, but hypothetically he would
be lukewarm on the idea at best if he did
get a dog. And plus, like I think for Paul,
the key dog for him would be like a low

(01:22:38):
maintenance dog because he's a first time dog owner, so
you can't give him And not trying to brag, but
like if you get an Atlas, like you get a
ridge Back like that's not a beginner dog like they do.
You have to really love dogs to have dogs like that, right,
So I said that he should get a lab or
a retriever because labs and retrievers to me are low

(01:23:00):
maintenance type of dogs. Now, the emailer here says Evan's
dog advice is disastrous. Yeah, and he said labs and
retrievers are high energy dogs, not the highest but definitely
on the high end of the spectrum.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Golden retrievers are higher energy dogs. That is true.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Great Danes are loafers. Yes, Great Danes are loafers. Giving
a first time dog owner one hundred and thirty pound
dog is not the right There's a difference between high
energy and high maintenance, yes, so right, So high energy
to me is also like there's different and I know
it's not dog show, but high energy to me is
also different. Like there's different definitions because maybe like on

(01:23:34):
the spectrum of energy here for dogs, labs and retrievers
might might be awake for longer than other dogs, right,
which would maybe consider them to be higher energy. But
like Atlas needs to be exercised, like you need to
take that dog on walks or to play out in
fields and parks and things like that. Like retrievers and
labs like they're just kind of they're kind of just
chilling around, right, Like they might be up.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Now, I like to jump right. Golden Retrievers. They over
run around and it's high maintenance.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
How is it high maintenance for the.

Speaker 4 (01:24:05):
Exact same reason that you got to take care of
at list. It's gotta be the energy has to be spent.
We gotta take My girlfriend takes her to the gym
every day, so that's the only thing that calms her down.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
She's a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
That that that I mean, Alice gets along really well
with with Labs, maybe because they can match the energy
of each other. But like to me, like you know
that that that was what I more meant was like,
Paul needs a beginner dog, like the energy thing. People
are getting caught up in that. Maybe I misspoke on that, but.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Tricks.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
Oh yeah, now Paul's not getting a dog, Like there's
no way. But I'm just saying, you know, if I
had to give Paul a dog, it would be one
of those types of dogs. Anyways, there's your dog minute,
because we had to because you know, dog day. Here, okay,
here's an email from Stevie. Stevie Steve. He said, how
would you compare Mac Jones to Drake Man the offensive line?

(01:24:58):
Mac had his rookie year and the offensive line Drake
may is projected to have this year. This is an
interesting question, so we've talked about this a little bit
in the past, but Mac Jones's rookie season, correct me
if I'm wrong, but that was Win, Carris, Andrews, Mason,

(01:25:19):
Trent Brown. Well, I want to say that was.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
The year that they switched it part way through with
Carris and benched on when who remember they.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
Game get it right when it was supposed to be
the projected left guard was supposed to be the starting
left guard and he did not have a great season
at left guard.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Right and so they moved it a runt hang on.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Home Teddy Carris went to left guard. I know that
David Andrews was obviously the center. I want to say
that was the year Trent Brown played right tackle and
not left and Isaiah Win was at left tackle because
they were still trying to make Isaiah Win a thing
and trying to get that to work. So I think
that was the group.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
So their most use offensive linemen that year were Isaiah Win,
Trent Brown, and Justin Haran kind of split as the
second can tackle that was close on whenu Shaq Mason,
David Andrews and Ted Carris, like, those are the guys
that played the most some combination of that. So I
want to say it was remember William Sherman.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Yes, I want to say it was like six snaps
that year from left to right, Win Carris, Andrews, Mason,
Trent Brown, slash Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
Just Justin Haran played almost as much as Trent Brown,
did they jeez? Okay, which I think was on the
right or no? Did he step in for Win when
he was hurt? I don't know this year, so Justin
Haran played good amountain.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
I know that that group was like the group when
everybody was healthy though, Okay, so that was that group.
This group is projected will Campbell, Cole Strange, probably Garrett
Bradbury to start, maybe Jared Wilson at center on w
Morgan moses that that's just year's group. I'm gonna say

(01:26:55):
this year's group has the potential to be better.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Has the potential. There's more variance because you have won
maybe two rookies. Because I look at and kind of
think that's a wash. Yeah, I look at it. Trump
Brown's better.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
I don't know. Trump Brown is so inconsistent.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
Yeah, than a thirty five year old Morgan Moses.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
On when you and Mason. I'd probably give it to Mason.
I think Mason was a better player, but I don't
think it was like world's better.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
That's not a massive gap.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
We're not talking about like you know, Zach Martin here
like a good player. Shaq Mason center, definitely David Andrews
obviously left guard, Carris versus Strange. I probably give that
one to Carris.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
Maybe that Max Shownes's line is better, and then I
give I say Will Campbell, I say, well, Campbell too,
but like that's so the one guy we're giving it
this year. But also so the weird thing with that
line was it took forever because that wasn't the line
from the start of the season. They kept moving players,
they kept moving pieces, and they didn't have the continuity.
So this year's group should have continuity. On paper, that

(01:27:55):
line may be better because the next year is when
it really fell apart, but this team has a bet
or left tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
And they had better coaching that year, Like that's the
your Carmen Brisilla was the offensive line coach. Well, I
think is a really good coach. Josh McDaniels was obviously
the offensive coordinator. So you would like to think that
they have a similar setup this year with Moron and
McDaniels that you feel good about the coaching side of it,
And that's a big part of it with the offensive line.
You know, how do you game plan, how do you scheme?

(01:28:21):
How do you solve problems? Like is everybody on the
same page? Are you seeing it through the same set
of eyes? If you can do those things and eliminate
all the unforced errors as an offensive line, you can
be a league average just by being getting out of
your own way as an offensive line. I think that's
what we all hope for this year's offensive line. And

(01:28:41):
I was watching Fortune Foxborough the other day, episode two,
which is now out on Patriots dot Com and YouTube.
They spend a lot of time with the offensive line,
and I know for some people that puts you to sleep,
and you're not offensive line people. But the Morgan Moses
post practice sessions and it was a great part of
this great stuff, and it's good to see all these
line coaches. And I think the thing that stood out

(01:29:03):
to me, you Morone is obviously a season coach. He's
been a head coach in the league he's been a
line coach in the league multiple times. Jason Howdling, who
got a lot of FaceTime on Fortune Foxborough as well,
he's been a chief offensive line coach as well, Like
he's run the room himself too. So you basically have
three guys if you want to count Kugler, who are

(01:29:27):
probably qualified to be offensive line coaches. And they're all
on the same staff. So that's a big change from
the line coaches they've had the last couple of years,
no disrespect. So I think that that's a really positive thing.
And when I look at the way that I envisioned
this being broken out, Doug Morone, I think is going

(01:29:47):
to be handling a lot of scheming type stuff like
high level you know, game planning, install weekly installed with
Josh McDaniels, and we want to we watched this defense
we're gonna face on Sunday hypothetically, and we want to
have these runs in you know, these are the runs
that we want to have in the installo. How are
we going to block them? You know? What are our rules?

(01:30:09):
That's where Doug Moron comes in. I think when it
comes to teaching technique and like really getting in there
and hands On, I think it's gonna be a lot
of Jason Haddling and Robert Coogler. I think those guys
are the guys that are gonna be really teaching, like
the minutia, you know, and taking guys to the side,
and like working on rookies and back end of the

(01:30:29):
roster development and things like that, whereas Moron, I think,
is gonna be more of like an overseer, almost like
a court offensive line coordinator. So I'm looking forward to
seeing how that comes together, because on paper, it's so
much more seasoned and so much more just just better
than what they've had over the last couple of years.
So hopefully that elevates that room as well. A couple

(01:30:50):
more emails here before we will take some phone calls,
and then we'll wrap it up here. I am a
long time listener from Mexico, says Alonzo when he says,
my question for you guys is based on the comments
I've seen on X, it seems that Kaishan Boody was
running as the top X receiver with the first team.
Why do you think the entire media landscape is so

(01:31:12):
low on Booty while the team seems to view him
hot quite differently. I don't know if the media is
super low.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
I don't think we're low. We're just not as high
as people want us to be.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
Yeah, I think that I'm not saying necessarily that he
can't get even better. Yeah, but I think a lot
of us feel that last year was Kasehan Boody's peak,
and that's not a bad peak. If he can maintain it,
that's an NFL player. Yeah, But I don't know if
there's another level for Kashan Boody necessarily than what we

(01:31:44):
saw last season. So in that respect, could they do
better at that spot? I think is really just the question.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
I think it's also I mean, he was brought up
in trade rumors before the start of the season, so
that tells you that maybe as high as the team
is on him, they could see him as the odd
man out. Also, his consistency with him, right, he has
really good individual days, but he's got a stack days.
That's what it's gonna come down to. So when he
has a great day, yeah, we talk about it, but

(01:32:13):
it also comes with, you know, to contrast him to
Pop Douglas, who was that same draft class. Pop Douglas
is coming out every single day and we were you know,
there were moments every single day that you were like, Wow,
this kid has it in Keisehan Boudia some of those,
but then he has some days where he kind of disappears,
and so that's what it comes down to for him.
He just has to be more consistent. I think fancy
the flashes and get very excited. And maybe this is

(01:32:33):
where the disconnect is with the media, But you know,
we're kind of watching more on a down to down basis,
and there's times where he disappears. So look for a
third receiver. Sometimes you're going off flashes and there's nothing
wrong with that. And I do think, like, I don't
think he's gonna get cut. I don't think the team
would cut him. I think they do like him. I
also think if there's a large jam and they can
get something for him, the wouldn't turn their nose up

(01:32:55):
at it. So that's kind of where I'm at on him.
I don't that we're that low. I think the expectations
for him because and look, maybe I'm partially at fault
for this because I really liked him in the draft
that year, like he he was such a good player
at LSU. The expectations room were so high coming from LSU.
You talk about that ceiling. I think some people, look,

(01:33:17):
I've kind of wondered, this is that breakout star freshman player.
And I mean, that's what five six years ago. Now,
it's been a long time, but is there still an
ability to tap into that? And I think some people
just see that And I'm not saying you're wrong to
do it, like we all do this with certain players. Again,
as a true freshman LCU ten games, forty five catches,

(01:33:38):
seven hundred and thirty five yards, five touchdowns, caught nine
touchdowns the next year in just six games.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
I mean he was his freshman year of LSU. He
was on track to be the next LSU receiver, right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:48):
He was supposed to be that guy. So I think
there's some people that look at that and just still
wonder if that's in there and if they can tap
into that. And I've wondered it too, and it would
be great. I just don't think you build the offense
around maybe we tap into this guy he was that
was twenty twenty, yeah, right, so you don't build the
offense around can we tap into this guy that he

(01:34:09):
was five years ago?

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
Yeah? And I you know, he had forty three catches
for a little under six hundred yards last year. Again,
that's not terrible production, that's NFL production. But that to
me feels like where he would about fill in right
like that in terms of a peak. Now, he might
maintain it for a couple more years, and that's great,
that's a good career. But I don't know if he

(01:34:33):
has another level there. So I think that's maybe where
the disconnect is there with the emailer.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
Right, it's does he have another level or not?

Speaker 2 (01:34:39):
Yeah, seanav Vancouver writes, and I'm glad he wrote in
this email because we should say rip to the legend.
I'm happy to hear that crazy Train remains as the
intro song. Sean said, Rip Ozzy go Pats, Yes, rip
to the legend Ozzy Osbourne.

Speaker 5 (01:34:55):
That was.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Bad news yesterday. That was tough, all right, this is
Do you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
See any of his favoritwell constantly? He still sounded good
right up until the end.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Really yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:06):
I was never like a huge Ozzy Osbourne guy, but
I mean that that's history, right. I checked out that
farewell concert. He did that impressive for a guy that's
up there and has had some health issues. I think
he's dealing with Parkinson's right. Impressive, I gotta say, uh not.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
I was kind of surprised he lasted twenty more years,
Like there was some rough moments there for Ozzy Osbourne
in like the five six range, you know, health wise,
and he held on for a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
Just to go back to Keishan Boutiga. And this is
kind of my point, like last year being his ceiling,
how does he get better again? It comes down to consistency.
So last year, forty six percent of his offensive production
in terms of yards came in just three games. In
one of those games when he had one hundred and

(01:35:55):
seventeen was the week eighteen game against Buffalo. He had
ninety five. In the other game against Buffalo fifty nine
against Houston. He never had more than forty seven outside
of that in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven eight.
In nine games he had less than forty yards.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
So I'm not saying he has to go going back
to that twenty twenty season at LS. You didn't he
have that one game was against like I want to say,
South Caros.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
Well, the team started just like throwing the library.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
I know, but wasn't there that one game where he
had like three hundred for three touchdowns, like he had
like one of those types of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
Yeah, but I don't think teams are shading Kaishawn Booty
in the NFL the way they were shading him at LSU. Like, yeah,
there were some games like he was the next guy.
There were some games you watch that was being covered
in the fact that he did anything. He had well
that had the Old Miss game at the end of
the year, he had fourteen catches for three hundred eight
yards and three touchdowns. But the games before that, he
had one hundred eight against Florida and he had one
hundred eleven against Alabama the game before that. Yeah, So

(01:36:48):
I mean that's pretty good. It's just gonna come down
and I'm not saying he has to have one hundred
and ten yards every game, but it is kind of
George Pickens ish, where George Pickens will put up a
thousand yards in a season, six hundred of those yard
will be in like four games, and then he'll have
games where he's entirely blanked. So you know, Kaishawn Booty
had more games this year where he had less than
twenty receiving yards that he had more than fifty. And

(01:37:10):
I get not every game has to be one hundred yards,
but you gotta be a little more steady than that
to play a you know, consistent role in the offense,
to be a top three receiver guy that's out there
sixty plus percent of the time. The way he's kind
of performed is he's the fourth guy you throw him
in and kind of try to hit shot plays. And
he's good at that, and there's a role for that,
and there's nothing wrong with that. I just he has

(01:37:32):
yet to prove he's more than that, and right now
the team has. I mean, that's what Kendrick Bourne is,
That's what MATC Collins is. The team has a lot
of guys like that. They don't necessarily have the guy
that's gonna go out. You can set your watch to Okay,
he's gonna have at least five catches, gonna have at
least eighty yards, he got a good shot, he's gonna
get in the end zone. They you know, you hope
that's Pop Douglas or Stefon Diggs maybe right, So that

(01:37:56):
that's if Diggs is gonna If not Diggs, if Booty's
gonna step into a bigger role. Right, he's probably their
top rotational guy right now. But if he's gonna step
into a bigger role, it's about the consistency, all right.

Speaker 5 (01:38:06):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:38:06):
David Man sends in a good email here about some
of the holdouts or ins or whatever the heck they
are across the league that are going on right now.
So he lists them all out and we can kind
of just talk about them in terms of the Patriots,
right the two he has a couple, al right, So
can you see scenario when England actually tries to trade
for one of these guys, one of these disgruntled looking

(01:38:27):
for contract players. The first one here, I think is
the most likely not to necessarily be dealt to New England,
but just to be dealt period, Trey Hendrickson in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (01:38:36):
So Tracks really doesn't think he's getting dealt Okay, I
trust Tracks, but I agree with you. I mean, it's
just the history of Cincinnati. Has they gave those those contracts,
the wide receivers. I could see the Patriots being interested
because that's what, like I just talked about, with the receivers,
they're missing that Lynchpin guy. Same thing with the pass rush.
Hair Lander's a good player, but he's probably a.

Speaker 2 (01:38:59):
Low Enderson's an elite player, right what he's an elite player, Hendrickson.

Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
Hendrickson No, So I'm saying, like Landry's the closest they
have to a lynch pin. But if he's a complimentary
guy to a player like Hendrickson, right now, you're like,
it's that coverage dictating, right, Henderson's going to dictate the
blocking scheme, and I think that, you know, Mike Rabel
wants a guy like that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
Henderson's a beast.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
I think if Hendrickson became available, I don't know if
the Patriots would match the pright now supposedly the issues
the Bengals want a first round pick, which I would
not do. I don't think anybody's gonna do. So that's ridiculous,
and maybe he just ends up not playing this year.
But all this back and.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
Guaranteed money, as it always does in terms of the
Bengals side of things.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
Well, but this is a little different. So it's not
about the amount of guarant just based on the reports,
I don't know the inside, but it's not about the
amount of guaranteed money. I mean, that's part of it.
But what Garrett Max Crosby they got guaranteed money into
the second and I think into the third year of
their deals. Right, yeah, right now, it sounds like the

(01:39:56):
Bengals are only guaranteeing money in the first year of
the extension. Just what Hendrickson's problem is he wants long
term security.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
Shocker in terms of the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
Yeah, playing hard, No, And I don't fall to Hendrickson
for wanting that, especially if those other guys got.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
It right, all right, this one. I gotta be honest
with you. I would be absolutely floored if Terry McLaurin
gets traded by Washington. That is, it's just not I
don't want to go crazy, like this is not what's happening.
I will say this, he's not getting traded. I didn't
think he was going to hold out. I thought he
might hold in. Yeah, I didn't think he was going
to hold out. I was genuinely surprised the fines. You know,

(01:40:31):
it's fifty thousand dollars a day. Now to us, that's
that's incredible, Like, oh my, that's crazy. It's like insane
to give up that kind of money. Now, he will
could go out and sign thirty million dollars per year.
So if he misses like a handful of practices and
he has to he has two hundred and fifty thousand
dollars in fine. I think the team's going to wave
like forty million dollars signing both. It's like it's not

(01:40:53):
going to matter, right, and he and teams could waive it,
you know, if they want to be you know, do
the right thing by the players.

Speaker 1 (01:41:01):
It's let in the negotiations. Yeah, right, and will wave
your you know, we'll wave your fine.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
The single dumbest thing that you can do as the
Washington Commanders in year two of Jaden Daniels, with all
the momentum that you had last year going all the
way to the NFC Championship Game, and Jadeen Daniels was
legitimately a top five quarterback in the NFL out of
the shoot as a rookie, the dumbest thing that you
could do is be trade Terry McLaurin. It's not if

(01:41:26):
this was five years from now, and I know mclaurin's like, ah,
doesn't line up with this, but just for the take,
this was five years from now and they decided to
trade Jaden Daniels's top receiver because Jaden Daniels has won
like three MVPs in a row, and he's gonna be fine.
It's kind of like what Buffalo did with digs right,
Like they finally said, Josh Allen's a made man. He's

(01:41:47):
gonna be fine. It'll be fine. But we're not there
yet with Jayden Daniels. Jaden Daniels had one year, Like
he's not anywhere close to that level yet, where the
consistency is there to deal a guy that is truly
his best receiver, That would be dumb. Is dumb. And
I don't think Scott Peters, Scott Peters, Adam Peters is dumb.
I don't. I think he's a good executive. I don't

(01:42:09):
think he's doing that now.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
I mean, I know it's different ownership that organization's had there.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
It's different ownership. It's different ownership. It's a different general manager,
it's a different head coach, Like it's a different vibe
in Washington the next one here. I can't. I can't
rule this out completely because it's Jerry, and Jerry does
what Jerry does. Like Micah Parsons is unhappy in Dallas.
I mean, I mean the owner's talking smack about him,

(01:42:36):
so you have to be again that is done with
the capitol, so that and B to trade maybe, yeah,
I think a top ten player in football, like regardless.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
Of now you're talking about multiple first round picks if
he gets.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
He's legitimately Like, let's take quarterbacks out of it, because
it's always hard when the value of a quarterback is
so high at non quarterbacks if we were just draft
non quarterbacks, like Micah Parsans is a top ten pick easily.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
Oh yeah, I mean it's him, it's Seul Garrett. Yeah,
it's probably wider some of the justin Jefferson j Yeah, yeah,
but yeah there, yes he is to stop doesn't matter.
That would be like multiple first round picks. I don't
think he's getting traded simply because like I don't think

(01:43:25):
a team's going to give up what he's worth.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Yeah, that one would be tough to give up enough
compensation for Dallas to truly move him, right, But Like,
the thing is that Jerry is saying ridiculous, and I
know it's shouldn't I shouldn't, I shouldn't, Like it's glass
Asse type thing, but like, what are you doing, Like
you're saying, oh, well, we might just because we sign him.
We might not have him because he got hurt last year,
Like everybody gets hurt sometimes, Like it's football, all right.

(01:43:48):
Last one here from David Maine. Shamar Stewart also with
the Cincinnati Bengals. So Shamar Stewart went back to school,
I believe, right, So they can't play.

Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
I think there's an internet rumors he's at Texas and practices.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
So he's not eligible to play college football anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:44:05):
No, he cannot know.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
But he could sit out the year with Cincinnati and
re enter the twenty twenty six draft. Yes, but he
would be out of football for an entire year, not
playing college or pro football for an entire.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
So I've been looking into this and I haven't gotten
the exact answer. I think he could go play in
the UFL.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
He's not under contract in the NFL, but he declared no.

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
They put in the UFL.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
Where which one is that?

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
There's only one left? It's the spring league.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like he can go and
play pro football.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
No, But so this this is which if I was him,
this is what I would do if he's not going
to play, is go to the UFL because he'll dominate
and then use that to because inherently his draft sock
is going to go down because he's another year older. Yeah,
it's been out of the game. It's going to go
way down, right well, because it's just this whole, this whole.
But if you go to the UFL and put up

(01:44:59):
a teen sacks.

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
In ten games, yeah, I dominate that level.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
Right, So that's what I'm saying. But I don't think
he's gonna get traded because if you're the bank, first
of all, if you're the Bengals, you trade Tamar Stewart,
you lose all your leverage with Trey Hendrickson. The Trey
Hendrickson hat thing has to be settled first.

Speaker 2 (01:45:14):
You can't draft a guy in the first round and
then have a contract dispute and then immediately trade the
guy like it's just such bad.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
They if they decide like, all right, it's just that
we're at an impasse, it's not gonna work. And I
mean that in itself is a fireable offense. You can't
do anything with Stuart until you do somee with Hendrickson
because if you move on from Stewart or you announced
or he announces without you, hey not playing this year
Trey Hendrickson's offer just went up by or Trey Hendrickson's

(01:45:43):
demand just went up by twenty percent, because you can't
lose both of them. Now they should be prioritizing Stuart,
but you can't. If it gets out that Stuart's not
gonna play, they lose it all with Trey Hendrickson and
now they're down both guys.

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
I'd be fascinated to see a player sit out the
entire year and then re enter the draft next year.
That would be cool.

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
I'm really interested to know.

Speaker 2 (01:46:08):
I'd get drafted on Day three, right. So I guess
it depends on like the optics from the from the
other thirty one teams. Do they think he was in
the right in this whole situation, because like there's gonna
be some people in the league. I'm sure that are
gonna think he's a headache right.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
Right, But it's it's you know, what do they think
of Do they know the details what the Bengals are offering?
I think does he keep the same agent or does
he change agents? Yeah, that would be a factor. Does
he go to the combine again? So I don't know
if you can play in the spring and be eligible
for the draft. I remember there was that corner two
years ago who played in Canada and got drafted after

(01:46:45):
not playing college football. So I don't exactly know how
that works. And if I don't know how it works,
it's probably a pretty complicated question.

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
If he went to I don't tell you a factor
in the spring league thing. I just know from what
I understand, if he doesn't play in the NFL next year,
he can re enter the point twenty I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:47:02):
But it's the amateur draft, right, So if you're in
the UFL and you get paid by the UFL.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
Oh, it's so silly because now nil exists, so nothing is.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
Oh, that's true, So maybe he could so I just
for reference here, Uh oh, I can't pronounce that peta
peta peta two taomo pinuu. I apologize out of Utah.
It was a six round pick in twenty seventeen. He
led the UFL in sacks last year. He had seven
and a half and nine games. Willie Taylor played ten games.

(01:47:31):
He had seven. Nobody else had more than five and
a half. How many you thinks schmar Stewart's getting in
that league?

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
Yeah? A lot?

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
Right? If he goes out and it's like the guy.
It would be like the guys that light up the
Group of five conferences and the D two conferences where
they get drafted, because yes, the numbers are going to
be better, but they're so sheerly overwhelming. If Shamar Stewart
really turns it up, I'll throw it out there. Twenty
sacks in ten games. Let's say it's two sacks a
game in UFL. There's no way he's going outside the
top one hundred, and I don't know that he can do.

Speaker 2 (01:47:58):
Maybe not outside the top one hund but I still
I don't think you can take that.

Speaker 1 (01:48:02):
You watched that league enough.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
You can't take that guy in the first.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
You've watched that I don't think he'd be a first
UND pick, but you've watched that league enough. Do you
think he get twenty sacks in ten games in that league?

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
I don't Know't he wasn't he didn't have great sack
production in college.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
Well that that's because Texas A and M's defense.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Was Maybe, but you're right, all right, let's get to
these calls and then we got to wrap it up here.
Jordan is in Ohio. It's up Jordan, Jordan, all right,
there you are go.

Speaker 8 (01:48:27):
For itylug and can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (01:48:30):
Yeah, go for it? What's up?

Speaker 7 (01:48:33):
Did you did you guys hear anything about Colin is
injury coming back?

Speaker 2 (01:48:38):
If he if he pulled, Yeah, thanks for the college Jordan.
Now he is a full go. He was out there today,
not on the list, not on pup. Uh, so he's
good to go. It seems like and uh, you know
out there in the team it was twenty three and
five back there at safety with the first team defense.
So Jabriel Pepper is Kyle Dugger back home out in

(01:48:59):
their charting roles as of right now. I'll continue to
say I don't let's not totally forget because the last year,
that two years ago, Kyle Dugger and Jabrill Peppers were
considered a formidable safety dandem, you know, probably top ten
safety deal in the league. That was just two years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:49:19):
I think they still can be. They weren't. Neither one
of them was healthy really had any point last year.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
Pepper said all.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
The Peppers had all the offense stuff on top of that. Like, now,
if they'll be healthy is a fair question. That's really
my lone concern with their secondary. If those two guys
are fully healthy. Between those two again, I think can
be a top ten safety duo. I love both those players.
I think Jabrill Peppers one of the most underrated players
in the NFL at this point. Obviously, Carlton Davis, Christian
is auz what they can do that speaks for themselves.

(01:49:45):
Marcus Jones a really good slot corner. I like Alex
Saustin is a depth I like Jalen Hawkins and Marcus
Eps's depth, and Craig Woodson seems like he might have
something going there. Yeah, the only question for me, because
it's legitimate, if like how healthy are Kyle dug and
Jabrill Peppers and how healthy will they stay this season
because both those guys every history injuries. But if those
guys are one hundred percent, they're game changers.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
There's inherently always going to be some boom robust to
Kyle Duggar's game. I don't think Kyle dugger is a
Devin McCarty type where he's going to be a Simon
sound on every single play and always in the right
place and never making glaring mistakes and all that type
of stuff. I just don't think that that's his game.
But going back to twenty three. Like he was a
turnover machine for a couple of years there, like pick sixes,
return touchdowns, getting his you know, getting his hands on

(01:50:28):
the football constantly around the football. He was a much
better player a couple of years ago before that ankle
injury last year. I think the ankle I think that
started to have his season snowball on him. Was the
injury was the main reason, but I think it also
snowballed on him mentally once he like couldn't move the
way that he needed to move, and then you know,
then from there his brain just got scrambled and he

(01:50:50):
just wasn't seeing the game fast enough and his game
fell apart. But I don't mean to like put it
all on the coaching staffs of last year and this year,
But Kyle Dugger and Jabil Peppers are two players that
I think I have a chance to both bounce back
and be the players that we saw two years ago.
Now that doesn't make them, you know, Rodney Harrison and
Ed Reed right, Like, no one's saying that, But if

(01:51:12):
they can be what they were two years ago, I
like their safety room, I like their duo as a
starting duo. I still think they can be productive players
in this league. All right, Eric is in Quincy. Wrap
it on, Eric, what's up Eric? Eric? Of course, the
last call we left us saying it's okay, Eric, maybe

(01:51:35):
you can call in next next week as well. So
that is gonna do it for today's show. Next week.
I feel like we're gonna have a lot more to say.
This was one practice I did.

Speaker 1 (01:51:44):
We'll have a padded practice or two under the belt
by then, right, should be two or three?

Speaker 2 (01:51:48):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:51:48):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:51:48):
So wait, it's I believe I believe, don't quote me.
I believe Monday is gonna be the first PATI.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
So it'll be Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, they're off on Sunday,
and then first padded practice.

Speaker 2 (01:51:59):
I believe are gonna get Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, paths.

Speaker 1 (01:52:01):
That's usually how that lines up.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
Yes, So next Wednesday, same time, same place. We will
have multiple practices and multiple padded practices, so have a
lot more to digest.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
Same time, by the way, means like two fifteen two ish.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
Yeah, yeah, and we're gonna have a lot more to digest.
So that'll be fun. That'll be good. But we wanted
to give you as much of a symnopsis as we
could of today's practice, not overreacting today's practice given the
fact that it was such a small sample size. But
next week we'll be back. We'll have some padded practices
under our belt to discuss, and training camp will be

(01:52:37):
fully underway a week from today, so we'll be good
to go. But until then, signing off for Alex behind
the Glass Alex Barth Evan Lazarre will see you guys
next week.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.

Speaker 4 (01:52:52):
If you really want to help us, make sure you
like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple Podcasts
or Spotify.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
Also make sure you follow us on the New England
Patriot JE channel to see this show and everything else
that we do here at the Patriots. Thanks a lot

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