Patriots Catch-22 7/30: Key Observations Through Seven Days of Training Camp, Depth Chart Overview

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, I look at it. Tr Trump Brown's about I
don't know. Trump Brown's so inconsistent, yea than thirty five
year old, more than Moses.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
On when you and Mason, I'd probably give it to Mason.
I think Mason was a better player, but I don't
think it was like World's better.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's not a massive gap.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
We're not talking about like you know, Zach Martin here
like a good player, Jack Mason Center, definitely David Andrews
obviously left guard, Harris versus Strange. I probably give that one.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
To Harris, maybe that Max's line is better, and then
I give I say Will Campbell, I say Campbell too,
But like that's so the one guy we're giving it
this year. But also so the weird thing with that
line was it took forever because that wasn't the line
from the start of the season two.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, if you're wondering why it's just me to kick
off the show today, it's because they're waiting on a
very popular Alex Barth, who just is needed everywhere producer
Alex these days. He's just he's so popular that we
have to wait on him, you know, to come down
here to do the show. He's got bigger fish to
fry over at the official flagship station of the New

(01:09):
England Patriots ninety five the sports Up. Alex will be
here in a second. He'll be along in a moment.
I believe he's on with Felger and Mass wish him
well on that endeavor. So he's going to come down
here in just a second and he'll join me here.
But that was a good open for what I wanted
to talk about off the top of the show, because

(01:29):
I wanted to go offensive line. You all knew I
was going to go offensive line. Let's face it, everybody
could probably see that coming from a mile away, because
you have to imagine as a guy that likes to
talk a lot about the offensive line and has had
a tough time watching the offensive line the last couple
of years around here. To have not one but two

(01:52):
rookies that are already pushing in the second week of
training camp for starting jobs. That's like me on Christmas More.
I got two rookie linemen that are doing this already.
I mean, this is fantastic news for me, but also
for the Patriots most importantly, and I don't think it
should be undersold how big of a development. It is

(02:13):
that Will Campbell and Jared Wilson in the first week
of pads here have acclimated well, have looked a part,
have looked a part of left tackle of course for
Will Campbell, and we'll get to that here in a second.
But Jared Wilson, a third round pick, not coming out
of nowhere, I wouldn't say I think that a lot
of us could have seen this coming. I didn't know

(02:35):
how quickly it would be for him because he only
had the one year of starting experience at Georgia and
he's only twenty two years old. But Jared Wilson rave
reviews for him, Rave reviews for his just knowledge of
the game and his technique and his athleticism, but how
quickly he's grasping things. So those are all great things

(02:58):
to hear for the Patriots offensive line, which we knew
was the biggest weakness on this team going into last offseason.
And if you drafted two guys that can start on
the line, that can upgrade this unit, you are in
much better shape than you were a year ago. So
that's the great news on the offensive line. We are
going to go position by a position today once Barth

(03:21):
eventually graces us with his presence, we will go position
by a position on the roster, and I'm told that
he's coming down right now from the ramps, so he
should be here within the next few minutes. On the roster,
just top storylines or not, we're gonna try to mention
as many players as we possibly can. I'm not going
to promise that we're gonna mention all ninety one players

(03:43):
on the roster. I don't know if we'll quite get there,
but we're gonna try to mention just the high level
stories but also storylines, but also the little things because
you know that we pay attention to all the details
here on Patriots Catch twenty two. So my opening takes
on the offensive line, positive development there. And you know

(04:03):
what I'm gonna do is, I'm actually going to read
some emails. Maybe I'll take these calls while we wait
for Barth to, you know, wander on in here at
some point. But there's a lot of offensive line questions
right in the in the emails right now, so we'll
just give it a whirl. And the first one here
is from Jeff from LA and he said, given that

(04:24):
we've seen multiple seen multiple cold strange seasons, and he's
yet to demonstrate that he can pass Bock at a
legitimate NFL level. I tend to root for Wallace to
win that job. As Wallace demonstrated that he might have
a higher ceiling at left guard, this assumes Wilson has
the highest ceiling at center and those two rounds to
around out their best five. Okay, I got you, Jeff.
So that's another development here on the offensive line. What

(04:49):
does this all mean for Cold Strange? With Jared Wilson
seeing first team reps at left guard, what does that
mean for Cold Stranger's future? Who is working with the
second unit today at center? First time we've seen cold
Strange center. Now, it should be mentioned that Garrett Bradbury
did not participate in today's practice after he got banged
up yesterday towards the end of practice.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Bradbury not out.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
There today, So the Patriots moved Ben Brown to the
starting center position, and then Jared Wilson was out left
guard with Cold Strange.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Oh there he is.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Wow, Look who it is? How did it go? How
did it? How did it? God? Did everything go okay?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Up there?

Speaker 3 (05:31):
For you? Zoe didn't pick on you too much? Did he?

Speaker 4 (05:36):
No?

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Me and are having a ton of fun. Me and
I had to do. I was on felburn, Mez, you
think after today, I'm not gonna go set the record
straight on Will Campbell.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, so we'll talk about that in the second. But
my opening take, and I know to your your point there,
I know Will Campbell had a little bit of an
up and down day today, but my opening is really
down and then up right, my opening take of the show.
As a guy that loves himself some offensive line play.

(06:08):
I'm just so encouraged for this team and for the
offense that they might have drafted two starting caliber offensive lineman,
not just one. And for a group that last year
by every metric across the board pass blocking, run blocking
win rates PFF grades thirty second in the league, and
all of them on the offensive line. The fact that

(06:30):
they might have drafted two starters in the top one
hundred and Jared Wilson and Will Campbell is a huge
development for the team.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Like I don't think I can undersell how big of
a deal that.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Is for where their offensive line was they needed it and.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Not on top of that, you know, if you assume
that Jared Wilson after today now, I know Bradberry wasn't
out there, but based off the movement that they had
without Bradberry, it seems like they're looking at from left
to right, Campbell, Wilson, Bradberry on when new Moses as
their best five right now with Bradberry at center and
Wilson at left guard. So that means that four out

(07:06):
of five starters on the offensive line will be new
and the only incumbent holdover is the best guy from
last year, Mike Gonuenu.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
So that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
If you had the worst offensive line in football, you
should have four new starters the following year. And it
appears that the Patriots are going to potentially have four
new starters the following year, which is a great sign
to me in all avenues. I want to get into
like the minutia of all of that, but that was
my opening take. Do you have an opening take?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
How long are you going before I came down here?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
At the best, like seven minutes maybe?

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So you started you started before two thirty No?

Speaker 3 (07:41):
No, no, yes you no, I did it. It's two
thirty nine and I started.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Honestly, I will say people wanted to check it out.
Ninety five Sports on YouTube Patriot Felger was actually asking me,
like some insightful offensive line.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Questions, how many plugs are you going to do for you?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
I'm just saying like it was a good you would
have enjoyed it. It was a good offensive line to Okay,
what did he ask about? You know, the outside inside
move that's hard to counter. Just kind of some alignment
stuff moving between center and guard, things like that. Jared
Wilson's a good opening take. I'll say this, on a
day where the offensive line was not at its best,
Drake may might have had his best day. Yeah, which

(08:14):
is encouraging. He handled pressure very well. He talked earlier
in camp. I think it was like the first day
or two. He mentioned that one of his big focuses
this year is he wants to remain a passer longer.
When he scrambles, he doesn't just want touch the ball
and go. He wants to look to create downfield. He
had a few chances today. I thought when the pocket
was breaking down, whether it was one lineman losing or

(08:36):
just the thing kind of collapsing, to scramble, and it
wouldn't have necessarily been the wrong decision, but it wouldn't
have been the best decision, and instead he kept his
eyes downfield. The Kyle Williams touchdown was one of them
where the pocket kind of came in a little bit,
reset his feet, boom downfield, forty yard touchdown. So the
other thing I liked about Drake May today there were
a lot of days at the start of camp where

(08:58):
it was Drake May. And this is an offense take,
not just Drake May. I guess you know, Drake Man,
the offense started rough, but bounce back. You know, started
slow but made up for it. And look, you want
to see him bounce back. That's good, that's obviously good,
but especially for a team that started slow at times
last year, you want to kind of see him start
straw right. Instead of Drake May having a bounce back day,

(09:18):
it was where is the day that we're just like, hey,
Drake May was good wired to wire? He was good.
I think Drake May was good wired to wire today.
That happens to be on the day where the offensive
line gave him probably the least help they've given him
all summer.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
So I like that take as well. I what I
am most encouraged about with Drake May right now is
his timing in structure within the offense.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
It doesn't look like a guy that is learning a
new offer.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
He looks very comfortable.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
He looks very comfortable, he looks confident in his reads.
He's making good decisions with the football. I don't want
to jinx some solid knock on some wood. He has
yet to throw an interception in this training camp. He
had one dropped like this second pass. But I's been great.
I didn't see him get lucky a little bit. But
he has yet to throw a true interception to the defense.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, I think that in camp. Yet I bring that
play up because again that was his what second third
throw camp? Yes, he really hasn't even put them. Don't
even know how many times he's been lucky since then, hasn't.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Put I want to say that there's one for sure
that Jail Pepper has dropped like the first.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Day cap was like the second or third throw.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, and then there's maybe one other one that I
can remember off the top of my head where I
think Robert Splaine might have had two hands on one
that he it's a linebacker though, trying to make a
play on the ball. But I thought it was May
But maybe I'm this remembering it's starting to blend together
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Here, a little bit. I'd ask somebody would say the
week it was today.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
At the same time, if I told you was worth
seven practices in now seven practices, that Drake May hasn't
thrown an interception yet in camp, you would ask, you'd
either be over the moon excited or the one like
negative Nancy take that you could have would be like, well,
is he throwing the ball down checking it down? Yeah,

(10:59):
he's checking it down, he's being conservative, YadA, YadA, YadA. Well,
today he threw a absolute dime to Kyle Williams for
about a forty yard touchdown on a go route down
the right sideline, like going away from the hill on
the Patriots practice facility. That would have been pff markstacting
down as a big time throw instantly, right, that's a

(11:21):
real time.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Big time throw. He had one of those today.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
He drove another one down the field to Stefan Diggs
today on a cross or that was another muddied pocket
like you were talking about, where I thought he was
stared down the barrel stood in there, made the throw.
Now he's in a red jersey and he knows they're
not actually gonna hit him, but still he still stood
in there. There's a free runner right in his face
and he just drilled it right to Stefan Diggs. So

(11:45):
my point being is that I don't think he's being
ultra conservative. I do think there are moments where he's
pushing the ball down.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
It was just that one day. Besides that, it's it's
bitten fully at.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
His disposal and he is he has looked on the hole.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
I think the only thing you know, we go into
I wanted to get into. I really I just love
the variabel, the good, the bad, and the in the
s that gets you bleep line.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
That's what we can't swear on here. That is a
I might be able.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
I got adjusted, well, the coach said it, I got
adjust from from swearing.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Was fantastic, fantastic way of looking at a great line
from the head coach. The bad for Drake may has
been those occasional sprays that you'll see time and time,
and you know, every time, every so often, try to
get those words out. Every so often you'll see you know,
he had one yesterday where he had Hunter Henry. It

(12:34):
looked like he had him in the corner of the
end zone for a touchdown and he sailed it.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
He had one.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Uh you know, just on occasion, he'll have those. But
that's just to me, that's just the bad Like that's
not that doesn't get you beat. Like the turnovers get
you beat.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
As long as you're not doing it on third down, fine,
but the turnovers get your beat. Sure, Uh, you know,
the the strings of incompletions will get your beat. If
you can't move the ball at all, you're obviously going
to get beat. We're not seeing any of that kind
of stuff. We're seeing the occasional spray from Drake May,
which is customary of his skill set and his positives

(13:08):
and negatives as a player. We are also seeing, i
would say, from Drake, which I really like. We're seeing
a lot of things that involve his mobility, whether he's
going to have the option to run, whether they're moving
the pocket, the pob Douglas throw obviously with you know,
out of structure, off platform, those types of things. But

(13:29):
the main thing that I keep coming back to though,
because I've read some other reports, because this time of
year sometimes like all thirty one teams love their team
or all thirty two, I see other thirty one. Teams
love their team, right, everybody's going to win the Super
Bowl on July thirtieth. You know, the rookies look great,
the quarterback looks great, the coaching staff looks great. If

(13:51):
you go read some of the things about some of
the other younger quarterbacks in the league that have changed
coaching staffs and have changed hands in terms of systems
and coordinated, a lot of those guys are going through
some growing paints of learning a new system. Like Ben
Johnson was talking about Caleb Williams openly playing slower than
they would like mentally. It's been like kind of a

(14:11):
mess with that, right, Yeah, playing slower at the helm.
We'll do that another time.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
And I don't see that with Drake. I don't see
him playing slower. No, I don't see him having trouble
with processing or decision making or whatever the case may be.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
No, what that's great. We saw it in the spring,
and that's okay because he was going to learn it right,
But it's it's a credit to him and the coaching
staff that they've they've gotten on the same page as
quickly as they have.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
So that's encouraging.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I like what we're seeing out of the McDaniels, saying
after Vrabel made fun of friend Mike Giarready this morning
about talking about the plays of practice, I'll be a
little bit careful, but I like what we've seen from
McDaniels and what they're gonna do now. It looks similar
like it's the Josh McDaniels offense. Like they don't run
fool yourself. This is not a wholesale change of what

(15:00):
they're doing, you know, in terms of the offense or
in terms of the passing game in particular, I think
the drop back passing game is pretty much carbon copy
of what they used to do. But with that said,
you know, like we've talked about in the past, they
do have a mobile quarterback. Now they have a guy
that's a dual threat. We're seeing some movement pockets, We're
seeing some options with his legs that are involved in

(15:20):
him as a runner being involved, especially in some of
the red zone work that we see. So it's like
the old Josh daniels offense with like a sprinkle of
mobile quarterback right Like right, that's basically what we're going
for here, which I like, I think all this is positive,
it fits, It's all great. Now, that doesn't mean everything's great.
We're gonna get to some of those things that I

(15:41):
don't feel are not so great about what's happening. But
Drake May, Josh McDaniels, the two rookies on the offensive line,
I think these are all you have to come away
feeling positive about it.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
And you may have already touched on it just to
get on the same page as you With Jared Wilson, Yes,
he's starting left guard now, right.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Unless he does something to lose the job. I don't
see why do you think.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
That's more because they think he's better at left guards
because of the two fumbled snaps early on.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's a combination, I think, on one hand, so it's
not just that, right, we do this all the time,
like they might like Bradbury more than they're like Strange
it so.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
I guess that's what I'm asking. Is this okay, Bradbury's
better than Strange or is it Wilson's better at guard
than center? So what do you think is more driving here?

Speaker 2 (16:30):
The way that I look at it from Wilson's perspective
alone is that as a rookie, not only is the
center would be a rookie, a twenty two year old rookie.
By the way, you would also have a twenty two
year old quarterback in his second season standing behind him. Yeah,
and in baseball they call what the battery, right, like

(16:51):
the catcher in the pitcher, like the battery of like
the center in the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I think it is also called that in football.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Being both like under twenty three years old and both
first and second year players in the league, it's just
a lot to ask out of the gate for Jared
Wilson to be a starting center in the league with
really only one year of starting experience in college at
center at Georgia at his age, with a young quarterback.

(17:18):
So having Bradbury in there at center to just be
a veteran voice and have that veteran experience, I think
they're probably thinking that's gonna help Drake a lot.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Well, so then here's my well, you do still have
the two rookies on the left side there, here's my
second part of that. Cole Strange would only played guard
in this camp to this point. Garrett Bradbury goes down,
that's the center. Okay, you don't want Jared Wilson at center.
Ben Brown becomes the starting center, Cole Strange goes from
being the top guard to the backup center. Yes, Like,

(17:51):
do they do you think they don't trust Cole strangers center?

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, haven't seen it, so it'd be hard to trust
him because they haven't seen him saw last year. They
saw it on tape last year, but they haven't. They
haven't seen.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
They having hands on yet.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, and in their system.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I just I just thought that was notable because I
remember I was talking to Fort Camp like, don't write
off Ben Brown. A lot of people wrote him off.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
I am not writing off Ben Brown.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I'm not right off Ben, He's said yesterday.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
I'm pu that I'm not ruling out Jared Wilson and
Brenton Brown as your center depth chart.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
I'm not ruling it out.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
What do you so I'm not. I'm not saying I
have that's hit No Geart Bradbury, that's it. I'm not
saying I have any Ben. So that would mean Ben
Brown is the starter. Then if they like Jared will
adding to that take with today.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Or Jared Wilson eventually becomes the starting center and then
they throw somebody else in.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Card I get what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, I'm not ruling it out. That's just me talking.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
I said this, I wonder if Garrett Bradbury, because you
see this sometimes the guys first round pick seven years
all as a starter in this league, is he going
to sit here and back up a rookie or will
he say, you know, I want to go somewhere because
you know, players get hurt and stuff. Lisa, I want
to go somewhere. I have a chance to start.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
If you had to ask me today, I still the
five isolated out. Yeah, Campbell, Wilson, Bradbury on one who
moses feels like the group today?

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah, long way to go.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
But if they do even if they do that, I
wouldn't be surprised if they keep Ben Brown. Oh yeah,
because they don't want to move Wilson. Right now, you're
scares talk about this, Billy's talk about this. You essentially
have two backups in because Jared Wilson is your backup center,
Well you also have a backup guard. That was the
other thing I was going to say to you.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
We were on the same page here. Dante Scarnekio would
tell you, if you want the rookie to be at
left guard, you keep Jared Wilson at left guard, and
you put Ben Brown at center, because then when Bradbury
comes back, but.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Ben Brown for today's practice, why not cold Stranger at center?
Why Why does Ben Brown get the bump over Cold Strange?
Unless they don't believe in strangers the center.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
They don't either don't believe in strangers the center, or
they simply just felt like Ben Brown was better equipped
to do.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think their top lineman, like, if we're gonna do
a little mini Ross projection type thing here, right, Moses Wilson,
brad Berry if he's healthy? Own when who in Campbell? Right? Yes,
Demontree Jacobs is clearly the back top backup tackle Cole
Strange in Ben Brown that gets you to eight usually

(20:13):
carry nine right, nine or ten. So the only thing
with that group is you don't have a backup left tackle. Now,
I don't know who that's gonna be. And that's a
whole other conversation.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Until Valarian Low gets out there and we start to
see anything from him, I don't know how you could
know it's gonna.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
So well, Venerian law or some sort of backup tackle
like that feels like the group Laydon Robinson's still buried.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, sorry no. Kiten Wallace has been
with the talk group. Kan Wallace is in the mix
there left at left guard. But I'm saying like, if
we were to count that group, so it's Campbell, Wilson, yes,

(20:47):
Brad Burry, Moses, and then your top backups are Strange, Wallace, uh,
Montre Jacobs, Demontree Jacobs, and now Ben Brown. So that's nine.
So if you carry a tenth left tackle, just maybe
Cole Strange right well, if he's not going to be
the starting guard and we have Jared Wilson and Kane
Wallas gonna be the backup guard, is that leave Cole

(21:08):
Strange on the outside looking in. I feel like the
just Demantra Jacobs gets bumped if they find a swing tackle.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Out of that group. I think the question comes down
to two things. What can you do?

Speaker 2 (21:19):
You feel feel like you can get Ben Brown to
the practice squad. I'm iffy on that.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
I don't a guy that started with ten eleven games,
but most people don't carry Most teams don't carry backup
centers that don't have any any flexibility to play guard.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
That's true at one position. Backup at center is pretty rare,
but can you get Ben.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Brown though it's not McDaniels has done it.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
The other question is.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
What are they doing at tackle outside of the Mantre
Jacobs to back up their starters. So, in my opinion
that the way you just laid out, Yeah, Cole Strange
being on the outside looking in, so that of Adarian
Lowe or a Marcus Bryant or a fourth tackle makes
the team would make the most sense.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Unless it's so to me, it's either then Brown's the
odd man out because he can only play center, but
I don't hate them keeping a center only player in
this offense because it's so complex. Cole Stranger is the
odd man out because he can only play left guard, yes,
or Demantra Jacobs being the odd man out because they
find a swing tackle so they don't need him now

(22:24):
because they have guys who play left and right, and
Caden Walls in a pinch, can play right tackle if
you need him to. I think at this point they
view him primarily as a guard. But he's done it.
I think if it, you know in game, you'd go
down to your fourth tackle. Okay, we can throw Kayden
Wallace out there for the rest of the day and
then you add another you know, tackle in the in
before your next game kind of thing. I'm interested, but
that that kind of feels like, yeah, you know, I

(22:47):
don't think Layton Robinson's in the mix. City s got
hurt today.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Those two guys I don't think are in.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
The Yeah, they don't seem like they. He didn't seem
that he was in the mix before he got hurt.
You see her Durant didn't really look Marcus Bryants would
probably be the next guy up. And maybe it's can
Marcus Bryant beat out Demntre Jacobs because he is a
swing tackle. He can play at least in theory. He's
got to prove it in theory he can play both sides.
And now you don't keep Jacobs, you'd keep Marcus Bryant.
He's going to back up both tackle spots. And there

(23:14):
you go.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
So a couple of things I want to unpack.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Let's just stick on the offensive line for now, because
that's where we started anyways, and I feel like we
talked enough about where Drake is at. A couple of
things I want to talk about at tackle. Let's just
go to Will Campbell now. Yeah, So here's my take
on Will Campbell. I personally believe that Will Campbell has

(23:39):
come as advertised because coming into this when he was
drafted and if you watched him at LSU and you
listen to US or other programs during the draft, but
hopefully US during the draft, we talked about elite college
run blocker. So so pass protector has some warts as
a past protector that he needs to die now.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Specifically that outside inside.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
To me, that's exactly how it's been.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
And I will just say this because I have to
be a little bit positive about my guy.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
It has been a like, honestly a pleasure to watch
that man run block.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Like is he's ferocious.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
It's incredible, It's un it's awesome. It is awesome to
watch that man run block like we're we're talking about
like forget about like the physicality and the finish, because
oh that's great, right, but everybody can throw their weight around,
Like if you're six six, three hundred and thirty pounds,
you can throw your weight around that that that stands with,
you know, without mentioning his ability to work up to

(24:39):
the second level, he is on the second level in
an instant. His down blocks cave in the line of scrimmage,
like he's literally taken out guys on the line of
scrimmage already down blocking.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
He's got Fulda mill Williams over twice in that first
patter pe.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
He's got the reach in the and you know, the
athleticism to reach landmarks on the front side of run plays,
whether he's sealing the edge to get the you know
to on a toss play, or he's front side reaching
on outside zone to hook the edge, you know, to
get that corner for the running back.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
He finishes, He's nasty, he's physical, he moves people.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
He is a day one I would say almost good
to maybe potentially great run blocker, like right out of
the gate. So with that with Jared Wilson, who I
also think is a very athletic and could excel as
a run blocker, and then what you got brewing on
the right side, with Morgan Moses and Mike on Wenhu.

(25:36):
I am really optimistic that they're going to be able
to run block and there might actually be able to
have a productive, effective running game. And we argue all
the time about the importance of that, but I think
the main thing to me, the big takeaway is if
you can run the ball, the things that you can
do off the run game are just as important as

(25:58):
actually running the ball right. So if you can come
into games and teams.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Oh my, did Evan just suggests running sets up the pass.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
If teams have to respect the fact that you can,
they can come off the ball and they can get
Mike on Winnu and Morgan Moses on the double team,
and they can move some bodies right and they can
run to the left side with actual range and athleticism
with Jared Wilson and Will Campbell, you know, getting up

(26:24):
to the second level, or like I said, you know
hooking the outside, reaching the front side of a play
to get the corner, you know, Trayvon Henderson, scooting around
the edge like they can do all those things. Now
you can play action. Now you can boot, you can
move the pocket off of that. That's how you can
protect the quarterback. And not only are you protecting the quarterback,
but you're protecting the pass protection as well, because you're

(26:45):
doing these things schematically that give the defense pause and
and force the defense to respect the run and respect
the actions in the backfield. All of these things limit
the true pass sets that you see from from the
tackles right like the actual drop back passing game, which
will allow you to maybe protect those tackles a little
bit if they are a little bit weaker. Because I

(27:07):
think Moses has had his issues too at right tackle
and pass protection as well. So so let me just
get to stra all of these things. I'm like, I'm
like a kid on Christmas, like this is awesome.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Let me just get this straight. Yes, you're talking about
the run setting up the pass.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
For now, it's not where I want to be. It's
not like the end goal. It's not the end.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
But you're acknowledging the run can set up the pass.
That whole argument we had this week are about me
saying being tough on the line of scrimmage and pushing
the defense around initially can benefit you later in the game.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I am acknowledging that run actions mean more than just
running the football. You can run the ball and then
you can action off of that. Whether it's play action
is whether it's.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
That run action going to be as effective as the
defense can respect it as much. If you don't prove
you can run the ball out right, No, it's not.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
No, it's not I'll concede that point to today because
I'm excited and I'm going to allow myself to be excited.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Excited about the Patriots ability to run to set up
the pass.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
I am excited about their running game mark the Dayton time.
I think their offensive line is built for it. I
think their offensive line is built to be able to
run the ball. I think they have backs. I think
Rimandra Stevenson and Trevion Henderson are going to be bad
in factor backs we talked about we will in a second.
I think they're gonna be able to run the football.

(28:27):
And Josh has always been able to run the football,
So I think they're gonna be.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Able to run it.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
You got to get it, got to get a new fullback,
got figure out what's happening there.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
But I think they're gonna be able to run the ball. Which, again,
if you're only if you're running the ball and your
play actioning, and that's like your base offense, like that's
your first and second down offense. Now you're whittling down
those like true past protection reps where the guys are
on islands at tackle and things like that. Now it's
only like situational, it's only third down. It's only two minutes, Like,

(28:56):
you're not doing that for the entire game, where guys
are just teeing off on Cam and Moses for four
straight couarders. You can stay ahead of the chains, you
can stay in the game on the scoreboard, and you
don't have to put those guys expose them to like
thirty pass sets per game. That's better that you can
work with that. Now, that's not to excuse the fact

(29:17):
or to like to hide from the fact that Will
Campbell's pass protection in practice so far has been a
mixed bag.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
There's no doubt about that.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
On the true pass sets, yes, he's been fighting, holding
up on the play actions and stuff like the true
it's really that, I know people don't like it when
we bring this up, but I'm going to bring it up.
The Drake may Fore interception practice in the spring, Yes,
it was four picks and six throws, and then he
was fine after that. This was like he allowed to
sacks today and a pressure is in the span of

(29:48):
like four snaps, right, And then I thought the rest
of the day he was fine. There was nothing glaring.
So it's just it's concerning because it wasn't such a
short window and he's beat on that same move. That's
what I want to ask you to go back to
what we're talking about, amble and kind of coming as advertised.
We knew I mean the arm length thing aside, and
I guess it's loosely related to the arm length. But

(30:09):
how do you how do we knew we need to
get better at that outside in move and just protecting
the inside right? How do you like? What is the
coaching point? What do we look for to see he's
improved other than just okay, he's blocking it? Like, what
do we look for to see how does he adjust
to being better against that move?

Speaker 3 (30:26):
So if we.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
If we go class glass half empty on this and
we tie it to the arm length, which it could
be tied, it.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Is loosely related. So it's not it's not his arms
are too short he can't reach out there, but.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think it is so most of the time when
this happens, it's because he'll face like a guy like
Chase on ur s Winston who's got some speed off
the edge, and in order for him to get his
hands on those types of guys, he might need to
take an extra be he leans a little bit right
to get out there because he doesn't have the length

(31:04):
to just reach him. So he's over compensating, right, he's
reaching out further to the outside and he's getting his
weight over here. And then they're just swimming across inside
back inside. So all of these things could be tied.
If you want to be glass half empty about it,
they could be tied to the arm light. Now, how

(31:24):
do you work around that? I think it's there's two ways. Obviously,
every guy inside outside you want to set inside out.
You want to protect the inside first and make the
guy go the long way home.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
And he has done a good job. He does this
against Keon White today when he gets beat outside initially
he has good recovery. Yeah, so he can. It's not perfect,
but and I was talking to Felgrin Maz about this.
I don't know. I didn't even mean to plug it again.
I'm sorry. Something that great offensive lineman can do. And
you can speak to this better than me. But it's

(31:57):
just kind of how I've always felt. Nobody goes a
whole season without getting beat. You're gonna get beat. The
greats get beat a handful of times. But there's getting beat,
and there's getting beat right, you can kind of lose.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
The rep today against Bandon Swinston.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
So that was a blowby, right, that was not just
to beat those blowby like being better at getting beat
initially and then recovering and kind of making it so okay.
Drake has to like getting beat, so Drake has to
step up and reset versus getting beat. So Drake gets
out right sacked are obviously two different things, sure, and
so I think there's some of that where like if

(32:31):
you get when he's getting beat to the outside, it's
not it's not like leading the sacks, it's just kind
of moving the pocket, right.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
So what I see from him is that in order
for him to reach those out those high side rushers,
those guys that are testing his edge with speed, he's
got to be aggressive. And so he comes with both
hands and he just wants to fire his hands because
he wants to end the rep as quickly as possible.
He's got great grip strength and great base power, so
if he gets his hands on you, the rep is over.

(33:00):
So his goal is to get his hands on people
quickly and be more aggressive. Whereas like if you're a bigger,
longer tackle, you can kind of just sit.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Back and catch guys.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Trent Brown, he is trying to go get him, and
because of that, when he whiffs, he whiffs badly. So
being more patient in his sad and kind of trusting
his feet more than anything, I think is really the
starting point of where I would think that the coaches
are out with him because he's got great athleticism and
he's got great feet. So trust the fact that you

(33:29):
can move your feet. Instead of coming out and getting
over extended and throwing that punch with two hands, try
to sit back a little bit more, try to be
a little bit more patient, wait it out for an
extra beat, and try to use your feet to recover.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
That's what I would coach you. But I'm not Doug Muro.
I'm not offensive one. I'm not trying to pretend to be.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
So that's what I would some of it too. And
I don't know how much you do this with practice,
but like just on film, this is when guys will
go to that move. This is the looks that will
come with that move, and like if you know it's coming,
you can better, Like can film help with that?

Speaker 2 (34:01):
It can, especially if like a guy has a go
to move and then like a go to counter off
that move, because what's gonna end up happening my guess
is is that guys are probably going to speed speed
speed for like three quarters yea, and they'll save the
spin or the inside move until it's like a third
down in the fourth quarter and it's like a big
moment in the game. You know, Max Crosby, if he

(34:24):
does rush over the left side a little bit on
Will Campbell, I don't expect Max Crosby to go to
the inside move the first time he faces Will Campbell.
He'll try to sequence it together and build up to
it and then set it up for a big moment.
So there's a little bit of that like anticipation of
like when it might come as well. But the other
thing is, and I know people don't want to hear
this about a fourth overall pick, but he's a rookie

(34:45):
at the end of the day. There obviously are schematic
things that you can do to help him protect the
outside a little bit better. You know, you can chip,
you can put a tight end over there, give him
a little forearm, a little get a slab going over
there with Hunter Henry or Austin Hooper. You can have
the backs chip out of the backfield, and then he
can compensate for the chip right and kind of set
a little bit more to the inside anticipating the chip,

(35:08):
and then you can feed the player onto him so
that he's a little bit easier for him to block
the guy. I know people don't necessarily want that, like
they want him to be able to pass protect on
an island, like he's Joe Thomas. I get that, but
out of the shoot, if they have to do stuff
like that, if it's third and ten and it's a
long down and distance and the defense is going to
pin his ears back and they have to chip or

(35:29):
they have to help, you might have to do that.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
It's not his whole career. It's things you're doing to
help him as a rookie get along while he builds
up the ability to play more on an island.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Again, I would stress to him if it were me,
I would stress to him like, you have great feet. Yeah,
you're quick, You're nimble on your feet. You can slide,
you can set out, you can mirror pass rushers, you
can recover, Like, just sit back just a little bit
longer and just trust your feet and don't be as
aggressive as he tends to get at times, and I

(35:59):
think he'll be all right again. Like I would still
give him a passing grade for the camp. And I
think his run blocking is like an A plus out
of the shoe.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
His run blocking's legit. Yeah, it's he's again. I said
the word before, I'll say he's vicious.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
So on the other side, with Morgan Moses, I'm a little.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I'm small seat concerned. Is that allowed to be said?

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Uh, why are you? And then I'll say yes or no.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's two reasons. One, I think it was better today,
so I'll give him that. Maybe maybe it was too
premature for me to jump to this conclusion. I've seen
speed give him some problems, protecting the corner against speed rushers,
getting out of really getting out of his stance, and
like getting his hands on some of those guys. I

(36:45):
think it's been a little bit of a problem. The
other thing is, and maybe this is just a twelve
year veteran that they're easing in and they're managing and
all that good stuff. But I can't help but think,
is he really going to play seventeen games and hopefully
for this team this year?

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Like more than seventeen?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Right?

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Like you're hoping that they're going to play eighteen or
nineteen games twenty Hell, let's go for it.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Is he gonna be able to do that?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
And if is not a Moses problem necessarily, I mean,
the durability is a Moses problem, but he's thirty four.
It's it comes with the territory at times. You no offense.
But I don't particularly love what they have backing him up.
So like, if he's missing a month of the season,
then that's a month of Trey Jacobs, Vederian Lowe, Marcus Bryant,

(37:33):
whoever it is at right tackle. That's a problem that's
not good enough.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
So that's not being concerned about more like I don't durability, right,
I guess yeah, No, the backup tackles. We talked this
a lot over the you know, over the off season,
like it's a question. They relatively answered their starting tackle questions.
We know who they are. At this time last year,
we had no idea who the starting left tackle is
going to be. It was either gonna be the rookie

(37:59):
right tackle, they were going to move over the borderline
starting right tackle they signed from Pittsburgh who got caught
who they were gonna move over or Vederian Lowe, and
then it ended up being low who I think was
like the third option there and the right tackle. We
didn't know who that was gonna be, and that guy
ended up at this time last year being on the
Denver Broncos. So it's they answered to an extent. The

(38:19):
starting group, it's a house of cards, like if it
is Campbell, Wilson, Bradbury owned went ww Moses. I feel
okay about that. It's not gonna be a top five
unit in the league, but I think that that's representative.
But that can fall apart real fast because you lose
one or two guys and it's the depth is not there.

(38:40):
And look, they had a lot of needs this offseason.
I understand why, you know, back up right tackle maybe
wasn't on the top of the list, but it's something
that probably went under address. Same on the left side.
So unless you really believe in Marcus Bryant, he's the
one guy that's kind of an unknown. So I won't
I'm not gonna say you know what you have in
him because you don't. Uh, you know, Andre Jacobs, we

(39:00):
know who he is. He's a career back up kind
of fringing player Darian Lowe. He runs hot and cold,
but when it's cold, it's really not good. I'm concerned
about their tackle death as the durability. He's thirty four
years old.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
I mean, that shouldn't be und in hand, right, Like
I'm not saying it's news to me. I just watching
these practices and like he's in and out of practice,
and then he's in, then he's out again, then he's out, and.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
So I be more worried about that if it wasn't
clear that they were making that point of emphasis for
a lot of their veterans. Right, I'm not worried about
the condition. Harold Landry's in. He got a veteran day today.
Carlon Davis will see he's been out. But like they're
kind of doing the veteran day thing for quite a
few guys. It was just and I don't know, maybe
this is a dumb way to look at it by me.

(39:45):
Maybe it's just being too optimistic. If it was Jess
Morgan Moses, I'd be like, oh, there's something wrong. I
kind of look at it in the fact that Vrabel's
openly talking about it. They're just kind of trying to
make sure some of their veterans are in the right
shape for the start of the season.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
So he was better.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Toda, he was better, And I think he didn't rotate
with the mantra Jacobs today, right.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
No, And so maybe feel a little bit better watching
him in one on ones and team I thought he'd
protected the edge a lot better today. So maybe that
you know, a lot of offensive line Bay two is
just like rhythmic and time and all that. So maybe
getting the snap counts down and getting his feet and
his like you know, reaction time and all that jargon
like down so that he can be a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
We'll say this. I don't know if it's concerned with
Morgan Moses, just something to watch for. You know how
these tackles now, like they're trying to jump the snap
the same way defensive players are trying to jump the snap.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
And he does that.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
That Washington game last year, they are called like five
fall starts in a row. Yeah, No, he's he's right
there trying to jump. He's gonna get called for a
few fall starts early on because that's he's that's.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's part of like, Okay, is he doing that to
overcompensate because he's.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Not a lot. I think a lot of veteran guys
do that. I think, now that's just like the thing
to do.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
They try to be smart.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, but I don't think it's a it's like a
veteran trying to compensate because what's his name, Trent Williams
does it. Yeah, but I guess he's older too. It's
bad exactly, I know.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
But like I hear what you're saying. I said, I
think what more like my concern level is less about that.
I think like Morgan mos is going to be like
a bust of a signing.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, it's more worried about his availability.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
I'm worried about his availability and the fact that they
really don't have anything that you feel good about behind him.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
That's that's with a thirty four year old player. That's fair.
I think I'm more concerned. It is a dumb take.
I think I'm more concerned about what's behind him than
his durability. And I get there intertwined.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
But like, right, because you only knew what's behind him
if he's hurt.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Right, but he's played at least fourteen games, yes, every
year of his career.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Right, so yes, but for a team that we're projecting
to go like eight, nine to nine to eight and
be like, right.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Those two or three games, couldn't I yeah, yeah, I
get what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
All right, So I think that's enough on the offensive line.
I think we just spent forty five minutes on the
offensive line, which is our show. And that's not surprising.
You mentioned Trayvon Henderson. You wanted to talk about Travon Henderson.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
And I did too. He's on my list.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
The main thing here I had written down for him
just pass game impact, Like I think he's gonna be
an impact receiver out of the gate, just an impact
playmaker in general. But you see in the passing game
when he runs like a wheel or like a vertical
route out of the backfield, that's going to be a
hard foot race for a lot of linebackers to hang

(42:36):
with him. We've seen him run some routes detached from
the formation as well, like outside the formation too. I
think those short little option routes that we saw James
White live an entire Patriot Hall of Fame career on,
I think those are in his bag as well. Today
I saw him throw a chip block that landed a pancake,
which was cool to see see that pass protection a

(42:57):
little bit. He has come as advertised as well, I
would say, from explosiveness, sub game, pass game contribution. My
only question with Travion Henderson after watching him since the spring,
is not ability. It's workload, like just managing workload. He's
not the biggest guy, he's not the biggest running back.

(43:19):
It doesn't make sense to make him a volume running back.
So how exactly do they strike that balance of this
guy's a dynamic playmaker, but we also don't want to
overuse him at the same time.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
That's the only question at this point.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, no, I still think Rimondre's getting a brunt of
the workload in terms of the overall snaps. Now, the
big moments right third down, two minute drill. I think
that's where you see Henderson. The thing that stood out
to me, and we'll need to look at this more
when the games come around, because it's not a perfect
gauge in when they're not tackling, but man, when he
gets to the outside. There was a run today and

(43:52):
he had one yesterday. It was the same thing. Yesterday
was a toss. I think today was a stretch. The
one yesterday, like he has tossed the right side and
the defensive line comes down and caves it in and
it's like he's got nothing, like it should have been
blown up and he had a little sliver angle and
when he hit the top gear ended up being a touchdown.

(44:12):
Like his ability to create something from nothing by getting
the right angle and using his speed the fast and
take right. Okay, he's fast and his ball carrier vision,
but not just identifying the hole but being able to
time up, like when to run full speed. So on
that toss play for instance, right, if he just run
full speed right away, he would have lost the yards

(44:34):
because the blocking wouldn't have developed and the defense would
have gotten to him. He waited up. He was patient,
and then he knew when to hit the speed and
what angle to hit. I go back to the screen
touchdown against Texas in the college football playoffhere.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
If you watch that to be there, right, if.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
He runs full speed as soon as he catches the ball,
it's like a fifteen yard game, which isn't bad, but
you know it's the play's not developed. He's patient, he waits,
the blocking develops, he identifies the hole, he hits it
and then boom, he hits that top gear and pulls
away his ability to identify when he needs to run
full speed when he kind of needs to slow up
to be patient to visualize the blocks developing. All of that,

(45:09):
he is very impressive and it's a couple times now
he's created something from nothing, which we talked about this
offensive line. There might be a few cases here where's
running the ball it looks like nothing. So if you
can get something out of that, that's going to be
a major boost for this offense.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
He's fast, there's no doubt about that. That speed.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
He's fast, and that speed translates instantly, like you can
see it.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
It's palpable, you can feel it.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
He's he's faster than other people on the field and
and he's a I think he's gonna be a pretty
good receiver now. The only thing that like is holding
him back if anything at receiver is just like landmarks
and like kind of figuring out like how exactly Drake
wants him to run certain routes in terms of like
where he ends up.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Ye, look, get there, they'll get their typical rookie staf right.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
They'll get there with that with you with Remandre I
have no reason to believe that he won't be a
lead back for this team on early down, lead back,
whatever you want to call that. I until today, Landlerson
got some reps today with the top offense with some
other frontline guys with Drake, But I thought Antonio Gibson
had been pretty much holding everybody off for that third

(46:14):
running backs body. Gibson's actually and maybe it's just a
veteran thing versus a rookie, but He's gotten some reps
over you know, in front of I should say, or
ahead of Trayvon Henderson even at times this summer. So
I still think Gibson is is okay, Like, I still
think he's probably on this team and has a role.
He's been returning kickoffs too in special teams with Henderson

(46:36):
that's been like the top duo returning kickoffs. Let's talk
about the receivers, because I know this is another hot
button topic. My other like take other than the offensive
line and how just jazzed up I am about the
fact that they have two rookies that can play. I'm
also trying to like manage my excitement level for Stefon Diggs,
Like my excitement level for Steffonde is pretty high. And

(46:59):
I'm just trying to keep it in perspective and like,
you know, take the hose and like put put me
out a little bit about this, because I understand that
the bar is not very high with what I'm about
to say, but it's still true. He's the best receiver
I've seen in Patriots camp since prime edilement. And it's
not particularly close. Like you just see like the efficiency

(47:23):
of his movements, the quickness of his movements, how good
he is his hands, like he has magnets for hands,
and like his ability to finish at the catch point,
and even when he's like in a crowded, contested catch
kind of situation, his ability to finish through contact and
keep the play, uh, you know, keep the ball in
his hands.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
He just he's a professional receiver.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Like he just looks different than everybody else on this
on the field. Uh, It's it's really impressive to watch him.
I just if he's healthy and he's a go and
everything's fine, which it appears to be. Like I just
don't see a world where he doesn't catch a hundred
passes in this offense. It's like I just can't really
fathom how that doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah, he's gonna be in that role, and he's gotta
stay healthy.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
He's gotta stay healthy.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
But I and look, it could be like I've said before,
it could be one hundred catches for a thousand yards,
like it might only be like ten or eleven yards
per catch. I don't know if he's gonna be truly
a big play down the field burner anymore, but he is.
He's as advertised. And like I said, I I think

(48:26):
over the last four or five years, you've seen some
other veteran receivers, whether it's Nelson Agalore and Kendrick Bourne
and DeVante Parker and those types of guys, and you're like, like,
you know, Bourne's fine, but like those other two, it
was like, I don't know, you know.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I don't know about this, right. I don't feel that
way about Stefan Diggs. I feel like Stefan Diggs looks
like Stefan Diggs and that's a that's fun. Like, that's
a great development for them, and I think he's gonna
be a real player for them. They the Patriots might
have a Fantasy relevant wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
And Josh mctangiel's offense you never know, but no, he's been.
He had that one day where made a couple of drops.
Besides that, he's clearly one of my favorite targets. What's
really impressive is how advanced their chemistry seems to be already,
considering he wasn't really on the field with him in
the spring. Yeah him, I mean the clear top four
is him, Pop Booty and Kyle Williams. Yes, and then

(49:17):
after that, you know, where's Kendrick Bourne stand, where's Jalen
Polk stand? All that? But those four there's a different
kind of talk about speed. It's different kind of speed
to that unit. I think they all have good chemistry
with Drake May already you mentioned Kyle Williams. Your boy.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Big catch today go out from Drake May exactly as advertised.
He caught another one yesterday too in high red zone
where he just ran by the guy the defender on
a go rounde to and d Drake dropped that one
in the bucket as well. The one today was not
that it was like a bad play by Kyle Williams.
It was a beautiful throw though, Like that was you know,

(49:52):
Kyle Williams really hadn't run past I think it was
DJ James that was in coverage. He hadn't really run
past him yet, and Drake just kind of layered it
or laid it out there for him, and Kyle Williams
ran underneath it and Drake kind of threw him open,
like he just kind of What I was happy about
with Kyle Williams on that play is that he kept running.
Like at first I thought maybe he was going to

(50:13):
shut it down and like run a back shoulder or
something like that, but he knew what Drake was going
for and he kept running and Drake ended up throwing
him open. So it's a great connection there. The back
shoulder timing still needs a little bit of work like
that seems like it's still a little off. I'm not
one hundred percent sold yet that. Like in press Man,
the first and second level routes, I don't know if

(50:34):
he's going to where his separation level is with that.
But he can run a go route, that's for sure.
And if you start there and maybe expand as we
go here, then that's that's good news for Kyle Williams.
Is he pushing Kisehan Boody? Is there a world where
Kyle Williams is starting for this team. Do you still
feel like Booty's got that job, you know, locked down?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Where do he? Where's that competition for you right now?

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah? You know, booties gonna make the team with how
involved he is. I wonder if it's one of those things,
and we've seen them do this in the past where
the veteran starts the year and then it's not one
major switch, just over the course the rookie slowly and
slowly gets more involved. I also think we know McDaniels
isn't afraid to rotate and have four or five key guys,
and you know there isn't necessarily a default eleven personnel.

(51:22):
There might be that one guy it was Edelman, it
would probably be Digs in this scenario that's like always
on the field, but the other guys are moving around,
especially when a guy like Digs has the flexibility he
does to play xy and slot. So yeah, you wonder
with Kyle, I wonder if it's just gonna be an
outright forman rotation.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, and you wonder with Kyle Williams too, Like I
just mentioned, maybe it's like a limited route tree for
him to start and so in certain packages, certain calls,
like certain times of the game you might want, you know,
the go route specialist on the field, right, which might
be when he is to kind of start his career
and then he plays in those situations. I don't know

(51:59):
if he's though, from just like an all around game perspective,
like is he ready to be like the starting X
receiver and like playing in all packages and all that
kind of stuff. Probably not, but he can definitely have
a role as like like you said, like kind of
like a wide receiver three slash four where he's rotating
with Booty and sometimes you know, in certain situations it

(52:20):
might be Booty, like maybe in like a twelve personnel
when they want like a more experienced run blocker and
somebody that like knows those elements a little bit better.
But then when they get into those eleven packages and
they just want to get their best playmakers on the
field and their most speed on the field, like then
maybe it's a Kyle Williams. The last thing on the receivers,
I wanted to mention where you had to take about

(52:41):
Javon Baker the other day on on my old program
on Clintis that had our friends talking on the beat
about your take about Javon Baker.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Were people talking about it, really little.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Chatter about Javon Baker, not just from oh just in
the group chat.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, no, no, no, one like yeah, but Javon Baker.
Is there any chance for Javon Baker, because so if
you had to stack like his highlight reel catches. Yeah,
in this camp like he has as many highlight reel
catches as anybody. That doesn't mean that it's a consistency issue,
is my point. Like he makes once a day, he makes.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
But you know what, the lows aren't as low as
they like. There was one instance where he didn't line
upright and it was right after me.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
That Alex has talked about this already.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
But well, okay, here's the thing you talked about being
lowercase C concerned right about Morgan moses to borrow that
parlance lowercase G Goods start to camp for Javon Baker,
lower case GE gets sorry, Look, you know this is
how I do camp, right. I'm a credit where credit
is due, guy, I actually have another credit where credits
do take that we can do after this. But Javon
Baker came out he wasn't even working with the ones

(53:48):
he was working with the twos and threes, and he
was getting open regularly against twos and threes. Now he
dropped one and Josh Dobbs overthrew him a few times,
so he didn't have any catches. The overthrows and ours fall.
That drop is well, it's not his faulty. No, you're
the one where Doms missed him by like fifteen yards.
It's actually impressive as far Dobbs through the ball. But
like he's getting open, okay, credit, What more is he

(54:09):
supposed to do when he's with If he's gonna make
the team, he's got to show he can compete against
top unit. In order to get the reps with the
top unit, he has to show that he deserves them
by winning against lower units. And I think he did that.
You know, he's gotten a little bit more with Drake
may here he caught the big bomb from him the
other day. Ye had that toe tap catch? Was that
from mayor Dobbs and near the tow tap on the

(54:30):
sideline today Dobbs, that might have been Dobbs. He's still
working mostly with Dobbs. But like, look, this is again
this is how I do camp. I don't think I
still don't think Jayvon Baker is making the team. I
still think he's far away and there's too many guys
ahead of him, and all that lower case G goods
start to camp credit where credit due. He's done pretty much.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
As he's done what he could have possibly.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Right, He's doing as much as he could realistically do.
He's making the most the opportunity he's getting. So lowercase
G goods start to camp for Jaymon Baker realistically, you know,
like realist good situation, And because there are so many
receivers ahead of him, if they let's say, like they
hadn't signed stuff on Diggs, right, this may be a
more serious conversation because there's probably one or two guys

(55:10):
in the way, especially when mac Hollins comes back, or
like let's say just like they had less you know,
Polk was still hurt. Whatever, it might be more serious conversations.
Probably not. So You're just like, realistically, if he's gonna
have this kind of success against twos and threes that
he is, throw him out there in the second half
of preseason games, let him take over and maybe get
like a six round pick for him.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
So what I I think he has so along with
just like the highlight Yeah, the flashes. The other day
you mentioned the seven on seven catch where he just
basically blew by the entire defense and caught a deep
off from Drake May. Yesterday he high pointed the one
in the in red zone period where he went above
the corner.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
I can't remember who the corner.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Was, but he Moss the guy Mott was I want
to say Marcellus Dial.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Yeah, he went right like he was on.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Javon Baker went to the tenth floor and the corner
could only get to the seventh floor, and he won
right right won the ball. He has a skill set
and I would like he has a skill set plus
a body type that's different from Booty and Kyle Williams. Yeah,
Javon Baker runs like a gazille. Like Javon Baker's got
long strides, he got great build up speed, like he

(56:18):
pulls away from the defense a little bit better than
a Kasehan Boody does. And then he's got better size
than a Kyle Williams. So that's what he does. Going
for him is that he's a specimen. Like he is
a physical specimen. He's six' to two with four to four,
speed four or five speed, maybe BUT i think he's
probably in the four. Fours like he's got good, speed

(56:39):
especially long, speed and he's got good size for the,
position and those other two GUYS i don't think necessarily
check those. Boxes So Javon baker's got that going for.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
He ran a four or five.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Four, SEE i feel like he's faster than, That but
maybe that's just LOWERCASE.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
G good. Start we'll see what happens if he Get
like here's the. Thing if he's making catches like this
on a regular basis in preseason, games he's probably not
going to get to the practice. Squad so it's just something,
too you, know if you, know it's obviously not ideal
for round a year?

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Ago where credits do as? WELL i think he's made
some nice.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Plays CAN i give you one more guy? Credit where credits?
Do maybe this lessens the take On Javon. Baker, okay
you know what else? Said like a sneaky solid couple
of days, here it's just regularly showing. Up caught a
couple of touchdowns last few.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Days, Gee, scott SO i was going to get to
the tight.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
End so go, okay go, Ahead well So Hunter Henry
Austin hooper the top two tight. Ends, obviously still nobody's
emerged for that third tight. End Jack westover is getting
most of the third tight end. Reps he was the
second tight end up When hooper was on, pup but
he hasn't really done much with, it at least from
my point of. View you, know blocking, WISE i don't
know That scott stood out at, all But Josh dobbs
likes throwing. Him he's been a volume target and the

(57:48):
one thing that stands out to me is he can
catch the ball with the defender hanging on his back
catching and it's not like he's going up mossing, guys
but on the crosser right when the corner is like
a hand on your shoulder and he's trying to turn,
you or he's got a hand underneath under your. Waist
like he's still catching all those. Passes so he's not getting,
open but he looks. Open how often he's catching. These

(58:08):
he's got strung kill so and, look he was a
highly ranked wide receiver prospect who went To Ohio, state
and obviously he's since become a tight, end so things have.
Changed but AGAIN i don't know that G scott's going
to make the. TEAM i still think they probably want
to blocking third tight, end especially if they're not gonna
have a, fallback which we can get.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
To i'm about to get.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
To but credit where credits? Do if we're everybody was,
waiting you, KNOW i keep getting, questions who's third tight,
end who's? Emerging who stepped up through seven practices from that? Group, Westover,
Bell dupre And. SCOTT i Think scott's been the best.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Guy he's been the most. Noticeable James bell had to
catch today he. Did it was the first TIME i
feel Like i've Said James bell's name are Written James
bell's name.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Down But. Scott IF i had to say who has
a merger who has flashed the, Most i'm with, YOU
i would Say. Scott AND i think, Again dobbs seems
to really like throwing, him so we get into these preseason.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Games he could be somebody that puts up some.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Numbers so you mentioned the full back and we're gonna
this is gonna get somber here for a. Second, Yeah so,
really it doesn't he get that?

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Song it's. Upsetting it is, upsetting but it's not it's
Still it's not.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Forever so The patriots yesterday Plays Brock lampy on injured.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Reserve you, know still call Him Spencer. Larson the other
DAY i said that To Mike riso is very embarrassed
you called Him Spencer. Lars, YEAH i REMEMBER i did,
That LIKE i didn't called Make Greece Spencer, lars AND
i Called lampy, space which he's not even like the
number forty. Six BUT i did that on a show
during the off season. TOO i don't know WHY i
kept doing.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
That so The patriots Plays Brock lampy on injured. Reserve
his season is.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Over, yes it's not the kind of ir you can
come back. From he is done for the.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Year so The patriots do not have a traditional fullback
on the roster. Anymore not to like Gloss over for
sucks For, lampy like tough, obviously, yeah because he was
gonna make the. Team he was running with the top.
Unit he was gonna make the. Team, yeah so stinks For.
Lampy but just from a moving forward, PERSPECTIVE i have
to imagine The patriots are gonna kick the tires at

(01:00:03):
some point. On some full backs Like Mike reese will
have a list of like The patriots had five guys
in for a workout and four of them will be
full backs like or something like, that right, RIGHT i
have to imagine that there's Also Hunter brosio, waivers like
in roster cut down, day and if a team decides
that they're not gonna go the full back direction with their,
offense like maybe they wave a full back or they

(01:00:24):
cut a full back and The patriots sign a full.
Back Maybe josh McDaniels Calls Nick casario and begs For Yakub,
Johnson LIKE i don't, Know LIKE i think they're gonna
pull a full back out of.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
SOMEWHERE i would have to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Imagine it's not like we're asking them to pull a
starting left tackle out of, somewhere, Right like this is
a full, back They'll it's different in, that like if
left tackle gets, hurt you have other left tackles on the,
roster and you have to have a left. Tackle it's
just hard to imagine they would go From, okay we're
gonna have a fall back and he's gonna be involves
and then one guy gets hurt and suddenly you change

(01:00:54):
the entire offense because of. It like you, said you
can find a full back that seems easier than changing
the Off SO i think, that, uh that they'll find
a full back. Elsewhere but for right, now they don't
have the full. Back but like you, said they were
using a full back up until this, point like the
full back was, Involved, yeah meaning Brock lampy was involved
up until this. Point one padded practicing out, though is

(01:01:17):
a tough bee for Brock. LAMPY i feel for him,
because like you, said he was going to make the. Team, so,
uh we're on the same page with the full. Back
they'll find a full back at some point here in
the next, MONTH i would, assume AND i still, believe
they'll have a full back on the.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Roster.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Uh and they'll use a full back, now could A
jack West, Over Jean bell G scott, like could they develop.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Their H they're, not that's not the guy you want
me in the lineback with.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
You SO i think that they will probably sign another.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
So back again IF i can make the, pitch And
i'm not entirely sure like. It sometimes it's hard to
find information on these. Guys he may have gone back to,
school but they didn't see him sign. Anywhere. Uh Hunter
brosio was not Only North Dakota state's full, back and
that's that's a school to run the damn ball. Right
not only was he there starting, fallback he was also
An All american long, Snapper so you have your, backup

(01:02:08):
you'd have your, fallback and you'd have a backup long
snapper if you need.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
One so that's no comment on. That, No, OKAY i
feel like that's a good wrap on the. Offense we
have to end a little bit early, today SO i
don't want. TO i think we did a good job
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Defense SO i said earlier THAT i was small sea
concerned About Morgan. MOSES i feel a little bit better after.
Today it's it's maybe like it's in like eight point.
Font now you know we're really.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Small, well the size of the font has nothing to
do with whether or not letters are capitalized or.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Not good, point good, Points BUT i try, to, LIKE
i here out a different way to say. It CAN
i say that you might be the same WAY a
little bit About Milton.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Williams, yeah, well just one aspect of his. Game SO
i still Think Milton. WILLIAMS i mean he's clearly, powerful,
explosive quick as a pass, rusher AND i think him
And barmore it's clearly Have Kem that's gonna be a
ton of fun and this EXPANDS i get it's not
so much a concern About Milton, WILLIAMS i, guess as
it is their front as a, whole and it's nothing.
New we talked about, this. Uh part of getting quicker

(01:04:09):
and faster and more explosive upfront this offseason meant getting.
Smaller and this is a team that already struggled to
stop the run last. Year So Milton williams did not
have a great first few days in pads against the. Runs,
specifically it's fine pass. RUSHING i don't think he was
great against the. Run and it, was you, know a
QUESTION i, had they're going to be smaller. Now Maybe
Kyris tonga ends up playing a bigger role THAN i

(01:04:29):
was expecting because it kind of looks like that based
on what they've, done and he's been really.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Good he's only done the team that he can eat
space like truly eat space Like barmore eats space in
his own. Way but if you're really talking about like
a space eating nose, tackle It's. Tonga he's one of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
One, Yeah roy's done it a little. BIT i don't
know he was in with the first team Because barmore was.
LIMITED i don't know that he ultimately makes the team
when it's all said and. Done BUT i just Look
miltwilliams playing a new role. Here he was a situational.
Player he was a passing down player In philly because
they had all that. Depth never played more than four
eight percent of the snaps in his career before coming.
Here him and Were able talked about that introductory press

(01:05:04):
Conferce he's gonna play a bigger. Role that means stopping to.
Run they need him to be able to stop the.
Run so not you, know it's just a few, days
plenty of time to turn, around but not a good
first couple of days for. HIM i thought on run.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Defense so your bigger picture concerned about the run defense
as a. Whole In Milton williams's role in that is
is totally.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Valid, Yeah i'm not overly shocked that he's not like
a glitzy practice player because of the style Of russier
that he, is Like Melon williams is a speed to power,
dent the pocket move the guard type of pass. Rusher,
Right SO i WHEN i, see, like for, instance when
you watch one on, Ones like the fact That Millon
williams isn't dominating one on ones is not a surprise

(01:05:45):
to me and doesn't worry me at all because it's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Just not the type of pass rusher that he.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Is he is somebody that likes to convert speed to
power and he wants to go through, people and, like
you're not gonna see that unless he puts somebody on his,
Butt like you're not gonna see it right in. Drills
it's just not going to come to fruition the same.
Way AND i would also just, say LIKE i think
that that's a guy that plays the best when in real,
Games LIKE i think he's a game, player not necessarily

(01:06:10):
a practice. Player So i'm not worried About Milon williams
because of. That BUT i hear what you're saying in
general about the defensive line and his role in the run.
Defense they are going to you, know he said it.
Today this is all about get. Off it's about your
first three, Steps like they want to fly up the
field off the ball in this. Defense so in a
lot of, ways and this is a deuce, Parlance i'll

(01:06:32):
steal it from. Him they are going to stop the
run on the way to the, quarterback like they are
going to fly off the, Ball and the hope is
is that when they shoot their gun that they shoot
it right into the running, back Right, like that's the.
Hope but if they don't and they, miss then it's
going to be a little bit. Leaky, now the one
guy that hopefully will prevent it from being too leaky

(01:06:54):
is fourteen standing behind, Them Robert, Splane, like that's going
to be his job.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Is to fix.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
It is gonna make them right and put them back
into plays and make sure that, those you, know leaky
moments don't turn into like fifty yard runs right, right
that's gonna be On. Spline but at the same, TIME
i don't think that this is gonna be a very stout.
Front this is gonna be a splash play.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Front so, yeah and you mentioned it Being, Splaine he's
gonna be a big part of. That Where i'm just
coming from is LIKE i assuming everybody's, healthy and obviously
they're a little banged up in the secondary right, Now
but assuming everybody's, Healthy, Gonzales, Davis doug Or Pepper's Joe Marcus,
jones AND i get that's an, If but assuming everybody's, healthy,
RIGHT i actually think they're gonna be relatively tough to
throw the football on between that. Secondary they don't have
a great pass, rush but like they've got some dudes

(01:07:39):
up there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
On, yeah we'll GET i think're gonna be tough.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Throw the ball. On what concerns me is that if
that's the, case we remember what The jaguars did to
them last year In. London All, right we're just gonna
run the ball seventeen times in a row and they
at least need to be good enough to deter. That
that's the baseline for.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Me it's fair moving to the, addressers as you just mentioned,
him is it fair to say That Kalvon chason has
been the best defender In patriots training.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
CAMP i think you could argue he's been the best
player on the field since The pats came. On he's
been saying.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
That, YEAH i think that there's a good argument for
that as.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Well he's it's beyond flashing at this. Point it's like
he's just in the backfield every other. Play now you
could look at that, again you could look at the
negative side of that and, say, well who's blocking? Him
then you, know like what's going on with the offensive.
Line BUT i Think chason's just been, Great LIKE i
think he's just been, explosive and he's you, know fits
this scheme really well and he looks at home in.

(01:08:35):
It you, know this is a guy who's a former
first round. Pick AND i went through it this morning
BECAUSE i was trying to jog my memory of his.
Career he was drafted by The jaguars in twenty twenty
in the first. Round that Was Doug morons last. Year
Doug maroons here, now So i'll be gentle with What
i'm about to. Say they won one. Game let's just
stick to the. Facts they won one. Game it wasn't

(01:08:56):
a good. Season the next year Was Trevor lawrence's rookie.
Year it was The myer year In, jacksonville train, wreck
right for the entire. Organization then he played on Some
Doug peterson. Teams he goes To carolina for a. Year
then he goes last year To vegas where he had
like a josh U ja type season right where, like,
yeah he's playing Opposite Max, crosby takes advantage of some,

(01:09:18):
matchups he racks up from, sacks things like. That but
there's still a first round talent in there, somewhere and
it is there a Chance And i'm not saying he's
going to turn into like a three down game, wrecker
Like i'm keeping it within reason, here but is there
a chance that he's like a really really good player
in his role With BIG, t With Terrell, williams With Mike,

(01:09:39):
rabel with a scheme that fits, him with the coaching
staff that knows what it's. Doing, Like i'm just saying
that he hasn't had the easiest road in THE nfl
to this. Point he hasn't been on the best, teams
and he hasn't had the easiest. Road so maybe at
this Point Calebon chason can kind of find himself in
THE nfl with The patriots because he's just looked, Terrific
like there's no other, way.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
And this is the coaching staff that's had success kind
of turning these guys. Around he's still, Young he've an
he's been in the leagues in twenty. Twenty he's only twenty,
Six SO i don't know that they Found Miles garrett
out of, nowhere but, yeah if he can be a
more productive pass rusher and kind of play up a
little closer to that. Traffic it'd be. GREAT i think
there is some Josh uche there where it's gonna come

(01:10:22):
in spurts and you look at the flashes and you,
say how real is? This like let's say he had
like a twelve sax, season, right how quickly are people
going to start talking About Mark anderson and THAT i
would Take Mark.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Anderson he's absolutely so weird that you just said, that
because the first name that came to my mind WHEN
i was like doing some research On chase on this
morning was, like is he gonna be like A Andre
Carter Mark anderson, type right that like comes to The
patriots for a year and has DOUBLE?

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Digitsudt it Was Mark anderson had twelve sacks as a.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Rookie, yeah Like Mark anderson, Had is the exact comp
THAT i was thinking, of like the exact kind of
player like?

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Everything, yeah, no if He BUT i would take A
Mark anderson in year just let The bills be the
ones to pay him after, Again BUT i would take
A Mark anderson.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Here but the point being With chase on AND i
had the same point With landry in terms of The
Mark anderson, stuff like If Keon white In barmore And
Milon williams are moving the quarterback off the spot because
they're just disrupting and they're just wrecking stuff in the
interior and bodies are flying. Around we've talked about they
need somebody to, finish, Right they needed somebody that's actually

(01:11:26):
going to get the quarterback on the. Ground and there's
NO i have no reason to believe that that can't be.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Chasing, YEAH i think he can be a. Finisher it's
been encouraging. Storry then the real next test for him
is gonna be those joint, Practices like let's, See i'm
not exactly putting in the ticket for Calebon chase On
Defensive player of The year just, yet but it's.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
Been can you clean? Up that's?

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
It you, know of all their free agent, signings that
was not a guy that was like particularly high on
my radar of, like, oh you, know maybe potential breakout
guy could be a. Steal not THAT i thought he's gonna.
SUCK i just he. Wasn't he kind of flew under
the radar there in free. Agency he's been their best
free agent edition so far in camp Maybe Robert. Splane
he's also been really, good just not by the nature
of his, position not the same number of impact plays

(01:12:06):
because the way they play in. Practice but, boy if
he's a fine that changes a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Lot it's just if he's the fourth guy like you
said about you know oocha and those types of, comps
like if you have to worry About Milon, williams you
have to worry About, barmore you have to worry About Keon.
White if those guys are worth worrying, about right those.
ARE i don't know if like all three of them
will Be tuesday players, truly but like they're their. Guys
teams are scouting and having plans for that leaves. It you,

(01:12:33):
know we've talked About landry in that role as well.
Before but that fourth, rusher you, know whether It's chason
or It's, Landry like that guy is gonna just see
one on ones on the back side of the formation all,
day every, Day Like chaison's is gonna get a one
on one against the tackle and if he wins his
one on, one then he's gonna get a bunch of.
Sacks like that's just the nature of the beast, there

(01:12:54):
AND i don't have any reason to believe that he
can't do. That so he's been incite. Exciting he's been
one of the best players on the, field like you,
said for The patriots through seven. PRACTICES i initially wrote
That swinson's been, quiet but he had the one on one,
today so credit to him. THERE i actually Think Elijah
ponders had some flashes and one on The, yeah he's
been doing well on. That so those two, Rookies, uh

(01:13:17):
coming on a little bit. Here swinston's been quiet up until,
today BUT i thought today was one of his better
days at.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
LINEBACKER i, mean there's not.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
A ton to say other than you, KNOW i Think
Robert splaine is obviously locked. IN i Think Christian ellis
is pretty locked into the spot next to him at this.
Point If Gilyant devi is not out, there he's on
the pup, list so that that's a. Factor but maybe
we hear a little bit From Jack gibbons as well
as like, where yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
He's at the, screen Yeah. LARUS i mean he got
to the. Ball he got he got To larison before
the ball did From dobbs like he read. It, so,
Uh Lane, larrison just to, Backtrack Land larrison caught his
first pass From drake main teams. Today there you. GO
i don't know if you put any weight in. That
but that, Happened that did.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Happen it was a nice little screen too good blocking
Hunter henry.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
AND I i did a LITTLE udfa checking in my notebook.
Today very, nice uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
Aside from like the occasional one like the one today
For laris and just quick, ASIDE i think the least
successful plays in practices of screens LIKE i feel like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
The defense never, bites the defense never.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Cares there's no reason of biting this.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Right there's no reason to bite in the setting is exactly.
Right and The patriots obviously want to have the screen
game be a big part of the. Offense i'm not anti.
Screen some people are anti. Screen i'm not anti. SCREEN
i think a lot of really good teams. Screen you,
know The eagles and The chiefs said The, chiefs Especially
Andy reid is like a screen game, wizard, Right he's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Probably the best at.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
It The chiefs are always near the top of the
league in screen usage and there if it's good enough
for The, chiefs and it's good enough for everybody in my,
mind BUT i feel like they never work.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
In but they're not not working because they're designed. Poorly
they're not working its.

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
Work the defense doesn't bite on, him.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Right because there's no reason. To you don't want to
get caught out of position to, like there's no upside to.

Speaker 4 (01:15:07):
Not.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Yeah so at, corner we know That Christian gonzales And
Carlton davis are missing in and out of, practice maintenance
whatever you want to call. It For Carlton davis And
gonzales reportedly has the. Hamstring my concern level For Christian
gonzalez is less than. ZERO i am absolutely not worried
about his hamstring injury at. All, uh as far As i'm,

(01:15:30):
concerned And i'll continue to SAY i said this yesterday
ON PU i will See Christian gonzales week one Against
Las Vegas, raiders AND i do not care if he
practices one more time in the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Summer, yeah they can take their.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Time, Yeah i'll see it against.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
The keep that same energy With Jason.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Tatum, uh that's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Different, no it's. Not, no it's really. Not it's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Different it's basketball against. Football it's totally.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Different it's it's the star, player it's the best player
on the, team it's the guy wearing number.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Zero BUT i said that he can't miss any regular
season games if he starts to miss regular season games
also have to be worried about.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
It For Christian, Gonzalez i'm.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Just, saying keep that, patience keep that patience.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Out Jason, Tatim but more importantly from a camp, perspective
Because gonzales And davis have been, out which is an, Ideal,
like no one's saying that that's what they want to,
happen but we have seen opportunities from the depth corners
and we're starting to figure out this depth chart and
cipher through. This So, Alex, Austin, Marcella's dial AND Dj
james are obviously the guys that are benefiting the most from.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
This what have you seen from those? Three, like who
have you liked the most out of that?

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
GROUP i Mean AUSTIN'S i think the third, Guy like
that's pretty, clear and he's been good to another couple
of pass breakups. TODAY Dj james been. IMPRESSIVE Dj james
has just shown up and he seems like he makes
a player two every. DAY i think he's been the
better of the two Than. Dial, Now die was a
core special teamer for them last, year so you have

(01:16:53):
to factor that in in terms of Can james replace
him in that? Role because somebody else replacement that role
and want to keep them for special. Teams maybe they
can keep bold excuse, me depending on how the rest
of the roster shakes. Out but he's been. GOOD i
am a little surprised you haven't seen More Isaiah, bolden
Like i'd like him to Get it's in what is
his three years? Now of can we see some more
From Isaiah? Bolden and they haven't done a ton of

(01:17:15):
kick RETURN i don't think he's really done much when
they have done kick return, Stuff so he might be
on the outside looking. In But i've been impressed WITH Dj,
James SO D.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
J james have been, active you, know lock pass.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Breakups MARCELLO'S i don't know If marcelli's dial is the
best outside corner in terms of coverage, Ability LIKE i
don't know if he's a true cover, corner BUT i
do like his, physicality AND i like his play, demeanor
AND i like his, speed AND i like his tackling.
Ability Is marcella's dial maybe more like a nickel safety
at this level than like an outside boundary corner like

(01:17:47):
it plays in the slot plays maybe a little bit of.
Safety he made some plays on the first day at
pads against the, run that like really stood, out, like,
yeah firing, downhill you, know filling, gaps filling you, know
whole going through wide receivers who are trying to block
him and just going right through him to the. Football
SO i wonder If Marcella's, dial BECAUSE i don't think
he's the. BEST i don't think he's the best cover,

(01:18:09):
Corner LIKE i when he has to turn his back
to the quarterback and really run with the receiver down the,
Field i'm not sure that that's where he's more most.
Comfortable but if he plays that nickel spot and he
can play the, run he can be strong, side you,
know edge, setter second force defender against the, run and
then you also have him and maybe cover some tight
ends which might be easier for, him you, know do

(01:18:29):
some zone drops and things like. That like maybe that's
a role For marcello's don because his physicality.

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
And his tackling is is. Noticeable he's really good in.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
That you see on special, teams, right you see it
in special. Teams SO i would Say, Dial BUT i
understand why you picked Out james, There and it's also
just Something i've been thinking about. It we don't have
enough time for it, today but it's something to unpack
in the, future just like how they're going to cover
tight ends in, General i'm just not one hundred percent sure,
about AND i don't know of dial factors into that

(01:18:59):
we'll see at. SAFETY i just think the biggest thing
to take away from safety is the hunt for a
third safety is, on like they're trying to find the
right combination back. There AND i would even go as
far to say at, times like it might mean That
Kyle dugger And Jabil peppers aren't on the field together
all the. Time that could be a case where if
they want to get three corners on the field and

(01:19:21):
they want to be like a true three Corner nickel
or even like a four corner dime or something like,
that like they might play one of these more free
safety body types like An EPs Or hawkins Or woodson
With dugger Or peppers and take one of those guys
off the. Field LIKE i don't think it's a guarantee
that the two of them are gonna just be on
the field all the, Time so we'll see where that.

(01:19:42):
Goes but the third safety is clearly something they're looking,
for like they're trying to figure out their best combination back.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
There, YEAH i, Mean hawkins seems to be squarely in the.
MIX i feel like we've seen less Of Marcus EPs
after the first couple of. Days maybe that's because he's
still recovering from THE acl and the pads coming on
and all THAT i had. Cited Maybe Craig woodson is
that that tight end stop or he's kind of dropped
off after he had a strong. Spring, so, yeah the

(01:20:08):
search for that guy. Continues, YEAH i don't know if
they have that. Guy, yeah they might not have.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
It they might not have.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Him BUT i have noticed quite a few times, that
especially if they're doing like third, down when they're repping third,
down That peppers And dugger haven't always been out there.
Together like it's sometimes it's Been, epp sometimes it's Been,
woodson like it's been another guy that they're trying to
get into their safety involved. There All, right to wrap this,

(01:20:34):
up it's your time to. Shine, Yep i'm Gonna i'm
gonna hand the ball over to. You the ball is
now in your. Court tell me about The, kickers because
my one question about The. Kickers, yeah Has Parker romo
just take away that they Drafted borgolas and all that.
Stuff if you take away all the, context Has Parker

(01:20:55):
romo Outperformed Andy burgalas to this, Point.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
YEAH i mean by a slim. Margin, well so are
we concluding the spring or? Not if we include the,
SPRING i still Think borgolis is. Ahead romo has been
slightly better in. CAMP i think it's pretty much. Even.
OKAY i think not including the draft and tie is
going to go to the draft pick, right, Correct so
not including the draft pick factor and, EVERYTHING i would
say going back to the, spring it's a. Tie. OKAY

(01:21:20):
i do think it's interesting that After borgolis struggled with them,
alternating they went to two. Days, Okay romo's gonna kick
six and that's, it and Then borgolis is gonna kick
six and that's. It and then they went back to alternating.
Today so a little bit of a. Reset the end
stadium On friday is obviously a, big big one for.
THIS i Asked Bryce baringer about That Quinn nordin the
Quin it's where were you Moment Quinn nordin's nine for

(01:21:43):
nine in the end stadium. Practice we also remember where we.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Were we're gonna name A Quinn ordine award on the
show next. Week that's gonna be whoever won the in
stadium practice for the.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Kickers that might just be the annual The Quinn ordine.
Winner but, yeah, no it's. BEEN i think that the
other factor in this that you have to mention IS
i think That Julian ashby And Bryce beringer are still
building some chemistry as the snapper and. Holder punt snaps
have been, fine the field goal snaps are still. There
hasn't been any truly bad, snaps but there's still some

(01:22:15):
where you, Know berenger's reaching a little bit to get
it down and that can impact. It so the operation
as a whole is still coming. Together BUT i think
it's relatively neck. Connect but Again ty goes to the draft.
Picks so IF i had a pick, today It's. PORGALIS
i Think porgallis is going to have that kind of
slight built in. Advantage but we thought it was over
at the end of the, spring, right And romo's come
back and he's had a great hand of the thing

(01:22:36):
About romo is the way he hits the. BALL i,
mean even when he's hitting from forty, five he's not
just getting over the crossbar it's not lightly tapping that
field goal, net, Right he's hammering the crap out of the,
ball and that conna be good and. Bad. Right it
obviously helps you in, weather it helps you in, wind
you stick to your. Trajectory but those, guys when you
kick that, hard your mechanics really have to be down

(01:22:57):
because any minor issue in the mechanics is going to
be you, know, uh it's gonna have more of an
effect if you have a mistake because you're swinging so.
Hard so that's About. Romo borgalis had that rough first.
Day he's been good since you see him bounce.

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
Back what do you make of? Him is something that
we've talked.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
About yeah'm.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Puh we've noticed that Sometimes borgalis's kicks are not in
like they're not going end over. It, yeah they're kind
of they're. Knuckleballs what do you make of?

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
That if they go through ultimately it doesn't. Matter he's
had a couple so the ones going back to the,
spring like he had a mishit where it was still
good but it just didn't hit his foot, right WHICH
i think when you can mishit, it it still goes.
Through that to the opposite that speaks to how strong
your mechanics are that even if one thing's a little bit,
off the rest of it's still tied together and you're

(01:23:44):
in good. SHAPE i think that's just a consistency. Thing
they might be working on his form a little, bit
so that's why that's. Happening Like, romo if they were
going to tweak his, form they probably did it last
year when he was here on the practice. Squad it's
not something they'd be working, ON i would think heavily right.
Now call us obviously that's another. Story so as long
as they're going, through it's not a big. Issue but
it does tell you that there's something he's maybe working on.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Mechanically so you feel, like as of right now that
it's close enough that the tie goes to the draft.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
Picks, yes, Yeah i'm with you on. THAT i feel
the same. Way, so but it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
Over it's not over in stadium, practice preseason games that
those are all big.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Deals so that, position it'll be interesting seeing who they
have kicking the games and how many reps each guy
gets in the, games so that's usually pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Telling, yeah all, right so that's your run through the entire.
Roster hope you enjoyed. It we have a couple more,
minutes So i'm going to tell you. What we have
three callers that've been waiting on hold.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
For a really long.

Speaker 2 (01:24:36):
Time but you guys got to be fast because we
we got to get off your no pleasant another show
on this in the, Studio so be as quickly as you.
Can if you're still hanging on, Here patty and Agu,
on what's Up, Patty.

Speaker 4 (01:24:48):
I'm still hanging, on, Hey. Evan i'll tell you WHAT
i was ahead of the curve WHEN i thought WHEN
i asked you, GUYS i au if you guys were
excited About Jared wolfson coming back that he was on you,
know he didn't practice on the, spring and if you
guys thought he would want a starting, job guys kind
of tempered those, expectations but now those those are full.
Fledged so on that same, token AND i Know i'm

(01:25:11):
looking far, ahead why not Put Christian gondals on Brock
powers in week? One that makes the most sense to
me because if you look at their skill position, players
there's nobody that really as a game breaker other Than.
Bowers that's ALL i. Got i'll take it out, there, Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Patty SO i agree with you THAT i think it's
in play that one of the corners takes Brock, powers
especially on third.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
Down i'm with. YOU i Think Carlton, davis long, arms physical.
GUY i think he's more of a pure matchup for.
That BUT i will what one hundred, PERCENT i almost
expect him third, down, pass third and. PASS i expect
one Of gonzales Or davis to be On. BOWERS i
expect him to treat him as a basically as a wide.

(01:25:49):
Receiver riley is In. Phoenix what's? Up?

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Riley hey, guys how's it going?

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
Good?

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
Hey so two quick. Questions i'm not sure if you.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Already they're not my work, here so trying and.

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
Do my best to keep. Up but what are we
seen With Marcus epps And Marty.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Maphu, yeah thanks for the, Call. Riley so he Mentioned
depp's a little. Bit he's been in that third safety
free safety. MIX i don't think that's necessarily a role
where you're gonna see a lot of splash plays from that.
Position it's more of Like Toron harmon be in the
right spot kind of. Role but That's, epps map who's
been playing linebacker a. Lot would for now with the

(01:26:30):
second unit at, times but mainly THAT i would say,
that you, Know toby is not out, there so it's
hard to, say you, know If tavai was, here would
it Be gibbins And, tavai you, know as the next
two right on the field instead Of gibbons And. Mapu
but that's where they're. Repping at Least mapu made some
plays against.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
The run the other.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
DAY i marked him down for a couple of, stuffs
so he was in there a few. Times BUT i
wouldn't say either one of those guys has like, flashed you,
know to a point Where i'm like talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
Him he still feels like he's probably on the on the. Bubble,
yeah and Then epps's had played enough THAT i think
he's gonna make the, team but, yeah he hasn't necessarily
had any big standout.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
Place All, Right randy is In. Providence what's, Up randy going?

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Once?

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
Randy All, RIGHT i left those guys on hole for
like over an, hour So i'm not. Surprised all, Right
so that's gonna do it for today's. SHOW a little
bit of an abbreviated episode today Because alex is just
he's just a popular, guy like we just have to
compete for his time this time of, year and that's
hard to.

Speaker 3 (01:27:34):
Do so we all have a.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
Job we all have jobs we have to.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
Do, yeah that's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Fair next week we are going to be On. Thursday
the next two, weeks, actually we're gonna be On thursday
because of the joint practices that are coming. Up we
wanted to do the one In. Minnesota we wanted to
do it On thursday so that we can talk about
both days of practice instead of just one day of.
Practice and then next week again we have to Share

(01:27:58):
barth with the sports of his day job at, least
so we're gonna do the show On thursday for the
next couple of. Weeks so we'll be On thursdays for
the next two weeks After Patriots, unfiltered so two to
four ish for the next couple of weeks. There but
we'll keep you guys updated on all that good stuff
on socials and On patriots dot com and YouTube and

(01:28:20):
all those good. Things so you'll be updated on the
times in the, days but for the next two weeks
it'll Be, thursday Not. Wednesday but until, then signing off
For Alex bart For alex behind The, glass we'll see
you guys Next.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
Thursday, hey this is. Deuced thanks for tuning into the.
Show if you really want to help, us make sure
you like us wherever you get your, podcasts Like Apple
podcasts Or. Spotify also make sure you follow us on
The New England patriots YouTube channel to see this show
and everything else that we do here at The. Patriots
thanks a, lot

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