July 9, 2025 • 41 mins
Watch as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth answer listener questions about the offseason, expectations for Drake Maye, potential improvement of the offense, impact of head coach Mike Vrabel and much more.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Bars from Lazarre.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, everybody, nailed it, Joined us always by our bark.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello everybody, and welcome into a special pre taped edition
of Catch twenty two. If you're wondering why Alex and
I are wearing the same exact clothes that we were
wearing last week, it's because we pre taped this show,
so we are not live. This is us coming to
you about a week before I'm about to tie the knot,
so I'm going to be off getting married, which is
(00:41):
why I Am not going to be here for a
live show in our typical spot. But we didn't want
to leave you guys completely hanging. We wanted to give
you some Patriots content while I am on a vacation
on our honeymoon. But Alex, we wanted to do this
training camp heavy because when I come back, this.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Is our last day is going to be rolling. It's
easy to think about it.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, I can't believe summer is already over. We're gonna
spend July fourth on the beach, and then I'm getting
married and then our honeymoon, and then training camp is
right there, so we're we're three weeks away as we
tape this from training camp. So before I should say,
we also asked for a bunch of male bag questions
from you guys on the X machine, and I really
(01:23):
appreciate it. We got over thirty responses to that tweet
that I just tweeted out this morning, so we got
a ton of responses. We're gonna go We are terrible
at rapid fire, but we're gonna rapid fire through these.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Responses here there are, and I'll try to get through
all of them as I possibly can't, because we really
do appreciate all these questions from you guys.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So that's the show today. We're gonna start with the
big picture thought from each of us on training camp,
and then we're gonna get into your mail bag questions.
But let's start there, Bartha, what's on your mind about
training camp? Kind of big picture that you're looking forward to.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I mean, I think the two big things, and we
just talked about this in the show we finished wrapping up.
I'm gonna put the offensive line to the side, because yes,
we're gonna be interesting. How will Campbell looks or he'd
be interested to see the battle left guard. That doesn't
really gear up until the preseason, so like just training
camp right. The two things one Drake may obviously what
(02:19):
does the year two leap look like? Does he look
more confident? Does he look more comfortable? How is he
picking up the new offensive system? Does he pick up
we left off in the spring? And is he taking
care of the football? Just everything we've talked about Drake
made this offseason, all that he had an encouraging rookie
year butt. Everything that comes after that butt is what
we're looking at. The second thing defense Schematically, we have
(02:39):
a general idea of what this is gonna look like
right under Mike Vrabel, just based on his time in Tennessee.
But there still are a few loose odds and ends.
How are they gonna use Kyle Dugger and Jabrill Peppers
after Duger missed the spring due to an injury, Does
Anthonny Jennings fit in? Where does he fit in? What
are they gonna do about the linebackers who's primarily playing
(03:00):
next to Robert s Blane. There's just still a how
much are they gonna use that big slot? There's just
still a few scheme questions schematically for this defense that
I don't think we'll get answered one hundred percent because
obviously they're not gonna show everything before they get into
the regular season. But I think we'll get some big
picture answers to that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, there's a lot of really good stuff there, I
would say the defensively, just looking at that for a second,
how they defend the slot and how they defend tight
ends is something that I'm not entirely I don't feel
like I have a great grasp quite yet of how
they're gonna do that, because in a Belichick style defense,
it was very obvious they like to have the Jonathan
(03:40):
Jones Marcus Jones type of true nickel corner in the
slot that could play man to man against shifty receivers. Yeah,
that was typically their slot. And then they had the
hybrids playing against the tight ends, you know, the Chungs,
the duggers, those types of players. How they decide to
do that is a little bit of an unknown under vlabel.
(04:02):
In Tennessee they did it a little bit differently. They
did also have guys towards the end, especially with like
a player like a Moni Hooker, who was a little
bit more in that mold of like a chunk, but
it wasn't always the same. You mentioned the big slot
when you have a corner, and I really like Marcus
Jones as a player, But when you have Marcus Jones
who's five 'ot nine, right, that's a very big difference
(04:25):
between the big slot and Marcus Jones. So how do
they kind of find that happy meeting in there. Your
Drake May point is really good as well. I want
to go even further up for a second. This is
a little Felger and Mas for you go true bird's
eye view on it. There's a lot of talk about
Drake May his year two leap, what he can do individually,
(04:48):
performance in the clutch, cutting down on turnovers, carrying over
the good things that he did from his rookie season.
My question when we go into training camp, because I
don't know if we're truly going to answer has Drake
made made the leap until we get into them.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
We can there will be early indication.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
There'll be early indications, and I promise you we will
break down every little early indication one way or another.
But big picture, my thought is have the Patriots done
enough to support Drake May. Do the Patriots have enough
of an infrastructure around Drake May that he can truly flourish,
Because I don't think we're in a world anymore where
(05:28):
it's enough to just expect, especially a second year quarterback, yeah,
to just pull the truck all by himself. Like, I
just don't think you can really ask him for that.
Last year, even though he had the flashes, even though
we came out of his rookie season feeling really good
about his upward trajectory, there was clearly a failure organizationally
(05:50):
around him, the coaching, the infrastructure, personnel wise. Have they
built up the offensive line enough? Do they have enough weapons?
Is Mike Rabel and Josh McDaniel's this as of coaching
upgrade that we think it is on paper? Defensively? Can
they get back to the level that they were twenty one,
twenty two to twenty three where he doesn't have to
score thirty a game to win, you know, win all
(06:11):
the time? Have they done enough to help Drake May?
Because I'm of the belief, because you know, I'm a
Drake May guy. Yeah, I'm the belief that if everything
around Drake May is at a level of a standard
of just competent to above. I think Drake May is
gonna be a franchise quarterback. I think Drake May is
(06:32):
gonna do the rest. But you can't expect Drake May
in the second season in the NFL to take a
team that is undermanned and turn them into a good
football team all on his own. So in your mind,
have they done enough on paper and now we have
to go from paper to actually performance to really set
(06:52):
him up to succeed in year two because it's.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
As much on them as it is on him to
set him up. I think for year two they still
need to do more long term the answers. Maybe like
on paper they did, but it hinges on Will Campbell
and hinges on Stephan Diggs, and you're talking about a
rookie and you're talking about a thirty old guy coming
off with torn AZL. So that's if those guys both hit. Yeah,
(07:15):
I think May's in a really good spot. If neither
of those guys can play at a starter level, you're
not quite back to where you were last year, but
you're definitely not a great place.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I just feel as though there's been a lot of
talk about this about Drake, about him taking the year
or two leap, about him individually succeeding, and him is succeeding.
Maybe the only other thing I hear frequently about that
is Josh McDaniels, right, Josh McDaniels' role in Drake succeeding.
But to me, making a quarterback work is an organizational thing. Yes,
(07:49):
it's a top down organizational thing. Are you doing all
the right things to point the bus in the direction
of making your quarterback succeed. It's not just enough for
Drake May to be good on his own vacuum. It's
not good enough for him to have a good play
Calier in a vacuum. He needs to have the talent
around him and the support around him, and that to
me is a question mark. But it's also not totally
(08:11):
out of the realm that they did enough. But I
just have to see it. We have to see it now,
some of these win totals we hear ten and eleven,
twelve wins. If they're really going to reach that, it's
not going to just be Drake May. It's going to
be all of it. All of it's going to be better.
The defense is going to be better, the offensive line
is going to be better, the receivers are going to
be better, the situation will play, and coaching is going
to be better. All your stuff, you know, end a half,
(08:32):
end of game, how they handle clock and all that
kind of stuff will be better. So I put as
much of it on the organization, on Elliott Wolf, on Vrabel,
on McDaniel's on the players around Drake May as they
do on Drake May. So I'm curious to see where
they're at with that. So those are our big picture thoughts.
Let's get to your questions here. Start here with Andrew.
(08:53):
He's at Nest PGS. I'm sure a lot of you
people follow him out there. He said, Aside for maybe
a pass rusher and a tight end, what position do
you have in the back of your mind as a
sneaky need early in the draft next year?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Pass rusher and tight end? I mean wide receiver. I
guess isn't sneaky.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Right, I think that's no. That's the offant the right.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I'll go back to old reliable deep safety, real free safety.
Like that, real free safety. I'm gonna stay on that
one until you get that guy.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I'm gonna go linebacker, off ball linebacker, I really like
Robert Splane. I think they're higher on guys like Jack
Gibbons and Christian Ellis and Tavia potentially as well as
maybe some of the fans are, some of the outside
observers are. But they set themselves up nicely. Where Drake
may is the you know, obviously the twenty four draft,
(09:43):
the twenty five draft, you go left tackle, wide receiver,
like you go premium position yep, at the top of
both of these drafts. So in theory, the third draft
here with Elliott Wolf should be able to be some
of these other things right free safety, off ball linebacker,
guard like positions that aren't quite as valuable as left tackle, quarterback,
(10:05):
wide receiver. But if you have to keep repeating that
cycle of drafting receivers and left tackles, and you've done
something wrong in the previous drafts. So in order to
project and hope that they're building someplace of success, it's
there going in that direction of now they can hit
on an off ball linebacker, now they can hit on
(10:26):
free safety, now they can hit on tight ends. Like
these are not necessarily those types of positions that one
Boston fan he asks, well, we finally beat the Dolphins
this season after all their moves. Can't remember the last
time we beat them. So they beat the Dolphins at
the end of twenty twenty two. We talked about this
on last week's show. It was a Scoop Huntley Tyler,
(10:46):
what's there? Skyler Thompson Scoot Huntley game. It wasn't scoop
or snoop snoop Puntley. I thank you, Snoop Huntly game.
Not a too a game. But the Dolphins have beaten
the Patriots eight out of the last nine, and we
know that Tua has their number. Do they finally beat
the Tua Dolphins this year?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I don't know that Tua has their number so much
as the defense did. Like the Dolphins haven't scored a
ton of points in a lot of these games. They
scored timely touchdowns. You go back to the open up
one last year except for one last year. But like
the I remember crunching the numbers before the first game
last year, so maybe last year changed it. But the
Dolphins were scoring like below average against the Patriots. But
(11:27):
the Patriots offense was just non existent against the Dolphins,
and obviously some of that goes back to Brian Flores
who's a great defensive coach. But the Dolphin we talked
about this in the last show. The Dolphins defenses or
the Dolphins roster is not good, and the Patriots might
have a better roster on paper. You also have the
benefit of your playing Miami here or there early, here late,
(11:48):
both of which should be advantageous to the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It is.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It is set up for them to at least split
with Miami this year.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
The Miami game in Week two in Miami scares me
always will A. That's just a house of horrors for
the Patriots. Yeah, B it's terrible weather to hit Miami.
That's it's gonna bee hundred degrees. It's gonna be Miami
hot down there. And one of the things I give
the Dolphins a lot of credit for this. I don't
give the Dolphins credit often, but them putting the road
(12:16):
team in the sun when the home team sideline has
the shade, very very smart. So it's hot as balls
down there. So we're in the side like like we're
gonna shut the ac off and turn the hot water
off in the road team locker room. Uh, it's good stuff.
The Dolphins Week two of the season two is probably
gonna play by the end of the season. I don't
(12:38):
know if it's gonna be the quarterback right week two.
I feel pretty good about Tua being the quarterback for
the Dolphins, so that game worries me a little bit.
But the one here at the end of the season,
you would like to think the Patriots, that's gonna be
where they're gonna find their stride and they're gonna be
a second half team this year. We don't know what's
gonna happen with Miami. That could go upside down. And
then two, it might not be the quarterback, so if
(12:59):
he's hurt, so I like them winning the game here
later on in the year. Uh. This is from Jeremiah
He Jeremiah Vasquez. He asked in y'all's opinion, what does
a successful rookie season look like for Will Campbell?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Uh? I mean baseline, he stays at left tackle. Obviously,
city doesn't look like out over work. I don't know
starting caliber left tackle. Yeah, to put a number on that.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I don't even I don't think. I don't think there
needs to be a number. I think starting caliber left
tackle looks the part.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
You know what it's successful season is rookie season is
for Will Campbell. We're not talking about Will Campbell. Could
that's a success. The less we say his name this year,
the better. If we get to the end of the
year and we're like, yeah, well Campbell was pretty good,
we didn't really have to talk about him much like
that would be great. I would love to not have
to talk about Will Campbell this year. You know, offense
to Will Campbell, but like you know, if he's if
(13:54):
he's a stud, you know, I'm going to talk about him.
That's true this show, we'll talk about him. I guess
say we will talk about him.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
See that? Did you see that poll?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
A successful season is ninety eight five? Is not talking
about Will Campbell.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There you go, good way to put it. I would
also just the one number that I would like to
see for Will campbeill be respectable as penalties. He did
have some issues at LSU with fall Stars, so.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
That was really just last year. Wasn't a problem his
first two years.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So I'm not like, it's not a it's a small
seat concern, right, It's that it's not a big seat concern.
But I I don't know if I have a number
in mind for sacks because that's so subjective. It depends
on the matchup, it depends on this game script, like
all that kind of stuff. It's hard to say. Uh,
but in terms of penalties, that's a controllable, like he
can control.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Getting that they have a gauntlet of pass rushers at
the gate. It's gonna be Max Crosby.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, who typically does Those two guys typically line up
over the right side. But maybe because the rookies.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I would think if any coach worthy, dam's gonna hunt them.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, I don't know anyways that's true.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Well, I'll be Carrol, I'll get Pee Caroll. No, it's
Pete Carroll and Mike Tomlin. Don't figure it out.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I don't know if there were not. They're great leaders, great,
great Raw Raw guys. You know how I feel about
the Raw Rock guys.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
What are your This is from Jason m longtime listener.
What are your favorite prospects coming into the twenty twenty
five college football season. This is a big barth question.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
My favorite prospect So we talked about one guy a
little bit last week, and that's Jordan Tyson, the wide
receiver from Arizona. Yep, I know Arizona State.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You keep on trying to get me to watch him.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So, first of all, not to kill Harry. Don't do that.
I'm not doing that this year. I know he went
to Arizona State. I know that's where na Kiel Harry went. Brandon,
now you went there too. I'm not doing that. I
really like Jordan Tyson. There's a couple pass rushers I
like in this draft, and he Dennis Sutton from Penn State. Yeah,
I don't know. I'm not I was saying to somebody
the other day. I'm not really at the stage where
(15:50):
it's like I'm having like these hard hitting draft takes.
I'm kind of just that boy nice at this point.
One guy I am really looking forward to watching. Oddly,
and I'm gonna be big Arizona State guy this year.
Forks up Sam Levitt from Arizona State. Their quarterback isn't
getting nearly enough attention. We've talked about this before. I'm
(16:11):
not a big believer in Arch Manning. I'm not a
big believer in Kate Clubnick. I'm not a big believer
in Garrett nuss Meyer. I'm not a big believer in
Drew Aller. These are a lot of the top, not
all but a lot of the top rank quarterbacks in
this draft. I think Sam Levitt could surprise a lot
of people this year. Could He's young, you know, he's
relatively raw. Last year he made some plays, but the
youth is a parent. But that Arizona State team and
(16:32):
Jordan Tyson's young too. Jordan Tyson's gonna be I think
a red yard sophomore. So I'm really excited. There's some
potentially really fun players on that team. So I get
I don't know, I guess just Arizona State.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
So I hope the Patriots aren't drafting high enough to
draft Caden Proctor. But that guy's a stud.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
So there's But here's the thing, Francis Moigoa, I think
it is in Spencer Finot. The next two tackles in
the draft both right tackles.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, so that's a good segue because our.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Next way, I got one more.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
No, No, we got Caleb down. Okay, fine, but we
gotta go fast camp down. We're already twenty minutes and
we've answered like three questions. This next question it goes
with that last point you were just making. You probably
recognize this account. Boom eight zero five one seven asks
do we have a future starting right tackle on our
roster at the moment? Really curious how you think they
(17:23):
view Caden Wallace. I love this question because the answer
today as we record this on July second, is no.
I don't believe that they have a starting right tackle
on this roster of the future. Morgan Moses is the
twenty twenty five starter. But of the future. That doesn't
mean it can't be Caden Wallace. He just has to
show it, like he hasn't proved that to me yet.
(17:44):
So to your point, is there a world and I
know it would be somewhat unfortunate to use back to
back first round picks on tackles, but is there a
world where Will Campbell looks the part at left tackle?
We feel really good about that. So then you draft
a college right tackle to play right tackle in the
NFL with a high draft pick.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It's absolutely a possibility. I mean, we'll see what happens
with Kayden Wallace, We'll see what happens with the draft
where they're picking. I'm not gonna sit here and tell
you that's what's gonna happen. I don't know that it
would be the worst thing in the world. You know,
have your quarterback, both tackles on rookie deals, they're all
growing together. Like I'd be into that. We'll say, but
if Cayden Wallace works out, great, that's one less need.
Obviously you'd rather fill it in house. But if they
(18:23):
have to go into the draft to get a right tackle,
I wouldn't have a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So I really think that Caiden Wallace has an NFL future.
I just don't know if it's starting caliber future, and
I don't know if it's at tackle. It might be
a starting caliber guard. And so with Kayden Wallace, I'm
really curious to see him in camp. I'm gonna be
looking hard at Kayden Wallace in training camp and hoping
it works out. So that's that's from Boom. From Jeff,
(18:46):
he asks everyone uses the Cam Newton offense when describing
how McDaniels uses will use May. I know May is
a way more talented player, but could it approach? Could
it be more like the Matt Castle offense in two
thousand and eight? So I was in high school. We
were in high school in two thousand and eight, So
I don't I'm not going to sit here and pretend
to know the ins and outs of the scheme that
(19:07):
they were running from Matt Castle in two thousand and eight.
But I do remember that they ran Matt Castle a
decent amount comparatively speaking, obviously compared to Brady. I could
see it. But I think with Drake May he has
so much more arm talent than Matt Castle did that
there's more, there's more available that you can order on
the menu with Drake May than with Matt Castle in
the passing game, So I could maybe see where he's
(19:30):
coming from in terms of the amount of true runs
like design runs like it's not going to be Cam Newton.
He's not going to design run the ball one hundred
times like Cam did in twenty twenty. So I could
see where he's coming from. But I don't remember Matt
Castle running read option, like I don't really think that
was a big thing in the NFL to begin with
back then, and I don't really remember him doing it
(19:50):
a ton from what I'm watching as a fan back then,
But it's not a I could see where he's coming
from because maybe the skill sets are a little bit
more apples to apples, where Cam was a two hundred
and fifty pounds battering ram like body type wise, Drake
may is probably a little closer to Matt Castle, even
though he's more talented.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, a serious coming from it's gonna be its own thing.
I think it's really just gonna be its own thing.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
All right. Uh. Jason asks, what is a realistic, realistic
floor or ceiling for this team in terms of wins?
I feel like this is a popular question. Hype has
people putting them at like twelve wins and I just
can't believe that. So what's your floor and ceiling for
this team?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I mean, the ceiling if everything goes right. Will Campbell
justifies that pick. He's a Pro Bowl caliber tackle. Stefan
Diggs is fully healthy, He's a thousand yard receiver. Duggar
Pepper's both fully healthy. They bounce back, you know, for
the there's gonna be injuries for the most part, they
stay healthy. That's the core al year with Mondrie Stevenson
gets back in shape. So your ceiling, yeah, twelve thirteen wins? Wow?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Really?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
If everything I mean, if everything goes right on defense,
there are top five defense.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Okay, what's your floor?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Five six wins?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right? So I'm with you on the floor. I still
I could still see a world because remember they went
four games last year. Yeah, so even if they are
at like six or seven wins, I know it's not
the improvement that everybody wants, but depending on how it
looks like, it still could be an improvement.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well, so here's my thing. They have ten games on
their schedule that they should win.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah that they now I would say they're ceiling is
ten or eleven.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Well, okay, but here's the think they have ten on
their schedule they should win. They had six or seven
on their schedule last year that they should have won
at this time, and they won really three throwing out
Week eighteen. Right, So it goes back to what Mike
Vrabel said. It is introductory press conference. They need be
good enough take advantage of bad football. If you want
(21:40):
to talk true ceiling, best case scenario, that means winning
all the games you should win and stealing one or
two you probably shouldn't. That's how I get to twelve.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So I went to I have more around ten or
eleven because I think some of those games that we
think on paper right now that they should win are
gonna flip, and then some of the other games that
we think are not are going to flip the other
one game balances out to around ten or eleven games.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, all right, but that's not a ceiling.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's my ceiling.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
But that's not a like a ceiling is like everything
best case.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
The ceilings they win the super Bowl, if we want
to go that, I guess like realistic ceiling. I think
eleven wins is asking a lot. That's almost three times
as if they won.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Every single thing goes their way, they can win twelve games. Wow,
I hope you're right every single well, but it's not
because that's not how life works.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay, Alexander asks, what's something you want Drake May to
get better at? Like, what's one individual thing? So I'm
with you.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
What else did you think I was going to know? Now?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I would say, but specifically to not turning the ball
over fumbles? Yeah, that's a good strip sacks, Like if
they can eliminate the strip sacks. You got to live
with some of the picks because he's a gunslinger and
you don't want to take away that aggressiveness from his game.
But protecting the football, not fumbling the ball on strip sacks,
Like if you can just protect the football a little
(22:58):
bit better in the pocket and that's gonna go a
long way to cutting down the overall turnover number, which
is what we're really getting at here. Uh V he asks, uh,
this is a good one, Like this is my favorite one.
I enjoy watching you guys have arguments about analytics. Not
everybody does. Yeah, I'm I'm glad that V enjoys it.
(23:19):
What are your top three to five favorite metrics? Like
he's talking to me, of course, give an explainer of them,
and does Alex agree with your usage? Why or why not? Okay,
So I'm not gonna give a full in depth explainer
because I don't want to beat a dead horse.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
E p A, DVA and expected something or other.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Okay, so you're two out of three, I'm gonna give three.
E p A yeah, which I think is the best
stat we have in football. Yeah, DVA also really good.
E p A to me, measures better which offenses are
more dangerous, like more explosive? What's more volatile? Like whether
more explosive or more detrimental?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
You can win games being explosive on offense, you definitely
can't check your way out.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So to me, I look at it like it's not
just explosive, it's like which offense would you fear the most?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
No, it's exploit you talked about last week. It's exclosive
which offense would you fear the most? Versus which offenses
actively lose themselves points by like turning the ball over
in negative plays and things like that. We have stats
for those. They're called turnovers and negative plays DVA.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I love for consistency, like who's the most play to
play efficient consistent football teams.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
With the secret formula?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And then my last one is QBR, which I think
ESPN's QBR right now, to me is the best quarterback
metric we have.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Isn't that another secret formula one?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It might be, yeah, okay, but it's the best in
terms of measuring quarterback efficiency. This is production bas This
isn't fugazi expected things that you hate. This is what
did they do on the field production wise.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
You can't tell me exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
No, But the thing that I like so much about
QBR is that it also factors in rushing for quarterbacks,
which I think if you're going to tell the full
story of the quarterback in twenty twenty five, you have
to include scramble yards, design runs, rushing, touch I'll.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Say this, I add quarterback rating, not QBR, like old
school quarterback rating antiquated and is a definitive number. There's
no expected it's stupid, it's random. I will stand with you.
I don't like quarterback rating, minor points, score, points allowed,
turnover margin. I'll tell you which teams are good, which
teams are bad. You show me those three things. H
(25:26):
point different let me do this, point differential, turnover margin,
third down conversion differential.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So I don't you show me those three things. I'll
tell you which I don't hate it. I don't hate
those necessarily. I love QBR. I think QBR is a
great sat. I also love the fact that QBR is
on a zero to one hundred scale that's based off
of win probability. So like, if you have a quarterback
that has a seventy QBR, you are expected to win
seventy percent of those games.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I think that word.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I think that's a great way to uh encapsulate quarterback
on field quarterback production, actual yards and touchdowns made by
your quarterback, and suffice the QB wins crowd at the
same time. Right, So if I, if it was up
to me, we would throw away antiquated passer rating. I
(26:12):
don't think anybody really uses pass I would never see
passer rating in an NFL box score ever. Again, do
you still see it in box scores?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
And we would only be using the ESPN box score
uses QBR their stats the better stats. I don't need either.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Room all right, quick asks, as the team is currently
constructed and realizing you're building roster, will take a few drafts.
Do you see Rabel and company using more high round
draft picks to rebuild the old line? So we kind
of answered this question already. I could definitely see that.
I think that they're gonna want to build from the inside.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
They're gonna they're gonna make that a priority.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
All Right. I hear a lot of they only won
four games last year, as from Will, why is there
so much comparison to last year's team? And besides like
twelve stars being between offense and defense, this team is
drastically different. So the fair point, I think the reason
why there's so much comparison is just it doesn't it
does happened that, oh, you know, one or two teams
(27:02):
a year ago, from Worris to first. We know that
the Patriots are definitely, possibly could do that. But there's
also the opposite, which is like a cyclical level of
losing where you see the same you know, the the Jaguars,
the Browns, the Titans, like these teams have been drafting
in the top five. It feels like for like ten years, right. Yeah,
maybe not the Titans because you know, if Rabel was there,
but recently with the Titans. So I think that that's
(27:23):
you know, the difference there. But it's a fair point.
I can't I don't really have a great rebuttal to that,
I think that's a It's a different team, there's no
doubt about that. Colin. He asks, what are three things
you're most excited to watch in training camp?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Three things? Well, we got to talk about Drake May.
See the defensive scheme and I guess see, I don't
know how much we'll see if Diggs, but see where
Diggs is at.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, I agree with that, Drake May. I would say
it's hard with the offensive line and defensive lines. But
Drake May whoever goes up against Christian Zales? Could any
receiver beat Christian Zales consistently in training camp? Because then
I might feel good about that receiver, Like if it's
(28:07):
Keishan Boodie, if it's Kyle Williams, if it's Stefon Diggs,
if that is like a true toe to toe, iron
sharpening iron type of matchup, will be excited about that.
In the offensive line, Drake made receiver, offensive line shocker?
Who will be this from Sasha? Who will be the
starting left guard to open camp? I'm saying col strange.
I'm saying col strange from Tim. Do you think the
(28:30):
Patriots offense will have a better year than the Dolphins offense? Yes,
I'm gonna say no. I still think the Dolphins have
too much skill talent, like a hill waddle they're running.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Who's not gonna play the full season? The line's bad.
The Dolphins offense will have higher highs over the course
of seventeen games. Which unit will be better the Patriots?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I think the Dolphins offense with two is still going
to be a really good offense.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
How many games are going to do ten? The Dolphins
seems to be the number all the time. Who averages
more points per game? Well, it'll be the Dolphins because
they'll have one game. Will they randomly score fifty?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I don't know. Probably Dolphins are gonna have games where
they're gonna be like like they were last year when
they played the Patriots. Like they're gonna have games where
they're knife hot, knife through, but.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
They're also gonna have gas where they can't. It'll be cold.
They'll be playing a team over five hundred, theyll struggle
to put up fourteen points. Fair enough, You're probably right
they'll be The Dolphins offense is much more volatile, and
I appreciate consistency, So I'll take the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Drew asks. Christian Gonzales took the leap last year to
all Pro caliber player. Who do do you who do
you think will be the player to make that jump
this year?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Say that again, who do you think the player would
make the jump this year? Like a Christian Zales esque
jump like Gonzales front from rookie good rookie to all.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Pro Keon White. I just I just think this defense
suits him so well. It's it's such a great spot
for him, It's a good coaching staff for him. You know,
there's gonna be a lot of attention on the in
the middle to Milton Williams and Christian Barmore. It's gonna
freem up, you know, will he be at the level
that Gonzales is relative to position. I don't know about that,
(30:05):
but you know, could key On White flirt with double
digit sacks this year? I could see it.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Karen White is the right answer. It's a good answer.
I don't know if like all pro's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
So I don't know that he's gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yah, I'm saying that about my answer, but I think
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So yeah, I don't know that he'll do it to
the extent that Christian Gonzalez did, but like he could,
I think he'll go to another level.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Is there another love for Tomorrow Douglas.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean he's just already pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
That one stands out to me just I was tempted.
There's still some trade chatter out there from our colleagues
on the beat. I saw Greg Bdard said that, you know,
he was one of the guys he listed his potential
trades out of that winer.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
They don't love that.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I just don't see that. I don't see it. I'm
not saying that the reporting is wrong.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I know that's the guy would hold on to. I
think he's a good player.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
This is a cool question from Elliott who is your
favorite Patriot player that didn't get enough recognition? He says
his is Kyle van Noy.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Here's Larry Centers.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
But like Larry Centers, it's think Larry Center should be
in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, but he by the
time he got to the Patriots, that was like the end.
I'm like somebody who didn't get enough credit with the Patriots.
Where do I start? You know the guy that I've
always said that they've they've been chasing this guy since
he left, Adrian Waddle. L Adrian Waddle was a true
(31:26):
swing tackle at a time they needed one. They've been
fighting tackle.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Disrespect. But Adrian Waddle is your answer.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
How many times does this team needed a serviceable swing
tackle in the last five years and he wasn't here.
Now he I think he had a career any injury
after he left. He's not playing anymore. But I remember
saying to you that next year when he left, we
were talking in the locker room and saying they missed
la Adrian Waddle, and you were like, that's crazy, but
it's true. I don't know why he's the first name
who came to mind. There's probably a better answer. Martella's
(31:55):
Bennett would be one super underrated Patriot. Loved having him here.
But I was just talking to somebody about this the
other day. They sneaky missed Ladrey and Wada when they
moved on. I bet I can think of it.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
So my biggest one, I don't know if he didn't
get enough recognition, but I don't think he got as
much high was Trey Flowers. Trey Flowers at his peak
with the Patriots was a darn good pass rushing. He
was really good. He's versatile, rush out on the edge,
you could rush over the center. He was like dynamite rushing.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Made me think of a couple. And maybe it's just
because this defense was so loaded. There were so many
dudes on that defense. Alan Branch was a really good
player and he was playing next Evince, and he kind
of came here late in his career, so I get
what I came.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Hicks were kind of like ones that got away a
little bit, like especially Hicks. Well Hicks Hicks went, but
that was like a scheme change.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Alan Branch came here when people thought his career was over.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Uncle Phil's nickname.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, because he looks like and he kind of turned around.
And then also from that defense, Kyle Arrington because he
got followed by Jonathan Jones, who's obviously been this incredible Patriot,
But Kyle Arrington was going, I'm trying to think back
to like the earlier, earlier teams.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Earlier teams like a lot of not not that they
shouldn't have, but a lot of those early Patriots teams.
All those guys got loved, I know, which they should have.
Like I'm not saying it shouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I mean, I don't like Roman Fifer Roman fight.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So what was I watching? Maybe it was just on Twitter?
And then we got to move on from this question,
but always do the rest to show on this they
were naming I want it was one of the early
two thousands defenses two thousand and one, three or four,
and they just I think it was four because I
think Vince was was already on the team.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yes, it would have been four.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Seymour, will Fork Warren.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And then when they got and I was like, okay, yeah,
it's stack dye line. Then they get to the linebackers
and they go Willie McGinnis to usc Teddy Bruski, Yeah, Arizona,
Roman Fifer, Mike Rabel, and I was just like, holy crap, Like,
how is this not talked about? Is like one of
the best linebacker rooms of the two thousands, So this
(33:58):
is insane.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I kind of him or I'll just bring this up
because we're in this conversation. I'm working on something with
Matt Doloff over at the Sports Hub. It actually might
be up by the time people see this. We haven't
recorded it yet, but again recording this show early. We
kind of want to do like an all sports sub
Patriots team. So the sports Sub started in two thousand
and nine, so but I want to do it as
(34:19):
like a fifty three man roster projection, So maybe not
the fifty three best players, but build out the roster.
Here's who I have to choose from a corner. This
is just since two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Okay, herr Yeah, because we're trying to keep this shorter.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Steph Gilmore, Malcolm Butler, Jonathan Jones, j C. Jackson, Christian
Zalez and keep to leave Drell Reeves, Jason mccordy, Kyle Arrington,
Jonathan Jones. It's tough group that's insane.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So we're talking to you're taking two.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Well, no, it's gonna be a fifth. We're gonna build
like a fifty three man, so you can have as
many as like five. So yeah, we'll probably have two
boundary guys, two slot guys, and then a tweener. So
like Gilmour is obviously on, I.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Think Gilmore Revis to lead law have to be.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Hon It's all sports ups. So two thousand and nine,
so those three, those are the four. But okay, but
like here's the thing, how do you weigh one year
of Darrell Revis versus like Jonathan Jones was here for
a decade and was really well, Johnthan Jones might be
your slot corner, that's true. One year of Revis versus
(35:20):
four years of Malcolm Butler who also had to pick
in Super Bowl forty nine. Me and me and Matt
are going to do this on a podcast. But that
what an insane run? Like Christian Zhaus at the bottom
of this list. Yeah, he's the last guy I put
on there. He's an all pro insane run.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Okay, So moving on, Rick asks, currently, I see the
Patriots top five wy receivers as Digs, Pop, Booty, Williams, Boorn,
to me, Digs and Williams are the only locks. My
question is do you trade Bourne to give Baker more
reps in preseason to see what they can do? So basically,
do you trade Kennrin Bourne.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I wouldn't. I also don't. If you'd want those two
guys to get reps, you can give him reps. I
don't think you need a trade anybody. These people forget
how long these preseason games are. Yeah, like you can
get them reps. I wouldn't trade Kendrick Bourne unless it's
in like we talked about last week, one of those
deals where all right, you know Terry McLaurin for a
second and born right, I would do that, But I'm
not rushing Kendrick Bourne out the door. He has chemistry
(36:16):
with Drake May, he has experience in Josh McDaniel's offense.
He's another year removed from that torn ACL so I
think he's gonna move a little bit better. I wouldn't
rush him out the door. And he's more proven, and
they need some proven commodities, even if it's not proven
at a high level. They need some guys who you
kind of just know what you're getting out of. That's
definitely not Polkin Baker.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, that's fair, all right. Tammy asks who hits six
six hundred and fifty yards from scrimmage first, Travon Henderson
or Kyle Williams. I'm going Henderson as well. I think
that's not really fair, No, because he's running totally differ
different because Henderson you can force feed the ball. Kyle
Williams has to get open and catch the ball. Yeah,
that's very different.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Nothing against Kyle Williams, but that's not it's not the same,
all right.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Rick asks after free agency in the draft, which position
group still is in need of a talent upgrade? So
my answer to this question is different. Like talent upgrade
versus which position am I most concerned about, I think
are two different things because I don't think you need
the Zach Martin of left guards, like I don't think
you need a stud at left guard. But if I
(37:21):
had to say what the biggest hole on the team
is right now, it's probably left guard just in terms
of starting caliber player. But the area where I feel
like they're the most talent deficient might be a little
bit different than that. I would say talent deficient. I
would more lean towards either receiver or edge rusher. I'm
with you, But in terms of where I think the
(37:43):
biggest hole is, it's still left guard, still the interior
offensive line. Quick asks, Could the Patriots take a flyer
on Zadarius Smith, Gabe Davis or Will Hernandez if they
get the veteran manhim, Will Hernandez guard played a little
bit in the league, was drafted by the Giants. Zadarius Smith.
I could see it, But like you already have Harold Randrey,
(38:03):
Harold Landry and Chase On Like those are kind of
your veteran edge rushers. I don't know if you need
a third one of those types of guys on the team.
So if I had to guess out of those three,
I'd say Will Hernandez or just you know, we talked
about Sheriff last week on the show. Want to say
Smith had nine sacks last year still, and I think
he has some between the Packers and Vikings, he must
(38:24):
have some overlap with the current car Oh and Mike Rablers,
with Mike Rable and Cleveland for part of last year.
I wouldn't hate Sindarius Smith again, You're you're creating a
little bit of a log jam that might not be
the worst thing in the world for how they're set
up right now, especially if they're planning on moving on
for me Anfredy Jennings, Yeah, I could see that all right.
Last one here, this is from Matt. How do you
(38:44):
think all the offensive line offensive mines, excuse me, offensive
mines in the room? Mesh. So I'm thinking he's talking
about the coaching staff. Yeah, there's a lot of guys
from different backgrounds. How do I think that they're gonna, Mesh.
Josh McDaniels is in charge, So I think they're gonna
as much as I want to have an open mind
(39:04):
and have you know, have McDaniels have an open mind
and hear out other people and bring in other ideas
and bring in fresh concepts. At the end of the day,
the way that you, Mesh, is that you recognize as
a positional coach that the offensive the buck stops with
the offensive coordinator. And I think that the onus is
on everybody for that. But I would say that there's
some bus on the positional coaches, like don't don't overstep,
(39:27):
like don't don't get too big for your bridges. You know,
you're the quarterbacks coach, you're the tight ends coach, you're
the receivers coach. You know, just do your job and
I think everything will be fine. But I that's not
to say live in an echo chamber, right, Like you
want to have those other ideas, but that if you
ask me how they mesh, they meshed by realizing that
Josh McDaniels is the guy in charge. Yeah, there we go.
So we did pretty good there. That was pretty rapid fire. Yeah,
(39:50):
right around forty minutes. So that's the show for this week. Sorry,
that's a little bit shorter, but I have some big
things going on, so I think I have a pretty
good excuse. But Alex and I will be back on
the twenty third, the first day of training camp. I
can't believe I'm saying that. That's absolutely crazy. So we'll
be back on Catch twenty two live on Wednesday, the
twenty third of July for the very first day of
(40:12):
Patriots training camp. So thanks so much for watching and listening,
as you guys always do. Big thanks to all the
male bag questions as well. Hopefully we got to all
of them and we'll see you guys in a few weeks.
Thanks for watching.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Hey, this is Deuce Thanks for tuning into the show.
If you really want to help us, make sure you
like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple Podcasts
or Spotify. Also make sure you follow us on the
New England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and
everything else that we do here at the Patriots. Thanks
a lot,
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Bars from Lazarre.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, everybody, nailed it, Joined us always by our bark.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello everybody, and welcome into a special pre taped edition
of Catch twenty two. If you're wondering why Alex and
I are wearing the same exact clothes that we were
wearing last week, it's because we pre taped this show,
so we are not live. This is us coming to
you about a week before I'm about to tie the knot,
so I'm going to be off getting married, which is
(00:41):
why I Am not going to be here for a
live show in our typical spot. But we didn't want
to leave you guys completely hanging. We wanted to give
you some Patriots content while I am on a vacation
on our honeymoon. But Alex, we wanted to do this
training camp heavy because when I come back, this.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Is our last day is going to be rolling. It's
easy to think about it.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, I can't believe summer is already over. We're gonna
spend July fourth on the beach, and then I'm getting
married and then our honeymoon, and then training camp is
right there, so we're we're three weeks away as we
tape this from training camp. So before I should say,
we also asked for a bunch of male bag questions
from you guys on the X machine, and I really
(01:23):
appreciate it. We got over thirty responses to that tweet
that I just tweeted out this morning, so we got
a ton of responses. We're gonna go We are terrible
at rapid fire, but we're gonna rapid fire through these.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Responses here there are, and I'll try to get through
all of them as I possibly can't, because we really
do appreciate all these questions from you guys.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So that's the show today. We're gonna start with the
big picture thought from each of us on training camp,
and then we're gonna get into your mail bag questions.
But let's start there, Bartha, what's on your mind about
training camp? Kind of big picture that you're looking forward to.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I mean, I think the two big things, and we
just talked about this in the show we finished wrapping up.
I'm gonna put the offensive line to the side, because yes,
we're gonna be interesting. How will Campbell looks or he'd
be interested to see the battle left guard. That doesn't
really gear up until the preseason, so like just training
camp right. The two things one Drake may obviously what
(02:19):
does the year two leap look like? Does he look
more confident? Does he look more comfortable? How is he
picking up the new offensive system? Does he pick up
we left off in the spring? And is he taking
care of the football? Just everything we've talked about Drake
made this offseason, all that he had an encouraging rookie
year butt. Everything that comes after that butt is what
we're looking at. The second thing defense Schematically, we have
(02:39):
a general idea of what this is gonna look like
right under Mike Vrabel, just based on his time in Tennessee.
But there still are a few loose odds and ends.
How are they gonna use Kyle Dugger and Jabrill Peppers
after Duger missed the spring due to an injury, Does
Anthonny Jennings fit in? Where does he fit in? What
are they gonna do about the linebackers who's primarily playing
(03:00):
next to Robert s Blane. There's just still a how
much are they gonna use that big slot? There's just
still a few scheme questions schematically for this defense that
I don't think we'll get answered one hundred percent because
obviously they're not gonna show everything before they get into
the regular season. But I think we'll get some big
picture answers to that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, there's a lot of really good stuff there, I
would say the defensively, just looking at that for a second,
how they defend the slot and how they defend tight
ends is something that I'm not entirely I don't feel
like I have a great grasp quite yet of how
they're gonna do that, because in a Belichick style defense,
it was very obvious they like to have the Jonathan
(03:40):
Jones Marcus Jones type of true nickel corner in the
slot that could play man to man against shifty receivers. Yeah,
that was typically their slot. And then they had the
hybrids playing against the tight ends, you know, the Chungs,
the duggers, those types of players. How they decide to
do that is a little bit of an unknown under vlabel.
(04:02):
In Tennessee they did it a little bit differently. They
did also have guys towards the end, especially with like
a player like a Moni Hooker, who was a little
bit more in that mold of like a chunk, but
it wasn't always the same. You mentioned the big slot
when you have a corner, and I really like Marcus
Jones as a player, But when you have Marcus Jones
who's five 'ot nine, right, that's a very big difference
(04:25):
between the big slot and Marcus Jones. So how do
they kind of find that happy meeting in there. Your
Drake May point is really good as well. I want
to go even further up for a second. This is
a little Felger and Mas for you go true bird's
eye view on it. There's a lot of talk about
Drake May his year two leap, what he can do individually,
(04:48):
performance in the clutch, cutting down on turnovers, carrying over
the good things that he did from his rookie season.
My question when we go into training camp, because I
don't know if we're truly going to answer has Drake
made made the leap until we get into them.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
We can there will be early indication.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
There'll be early indications, and I promise you we will
break down every little early indication one way or another.
But big picture, my thought is have the Patriots done
enough to support Drake May. Do the Patriots have enough
of an infrastructure around Drake May that he can truly flourish,
Because I don't think we're in a world anymore where
(05:28):
it's enough to just expect, especially a second year quarterback, yeah,
to just pull the truck all by himself. Like, I
just don't think you can really ask him for that.
Last year, even though he had the flashes, even though
we came out of his rookie season feeling really good
about his upward trajectory, there was clearly a failure organizationally
(05:50):
around him, the coaching, the infrastructure, personnel wise. Have they
built up the offensive line enough? Do they have enough weapons?
Is Mike Rabel and Josh McDaniel's this as of coaching
upgrade that we think it is on paper? Defensively? Can
they get back to the level that they were twenty one,
twenty two to twenty three where he doesn't have to
score thirty a game to win, you know, win all
(06:11):
the time? Have they done enough to help Drake May?
Because I'm of the belief, because you know, I'm a
Drake May guy. Yeah, I'm the belief that if everything
around Drake May is at a level of a standard
of just competent to above. I think Drake May is
gonna be a franchise quarterback. I think Drake May is
(06:32):
gonna do the rest. But you can't expect Drake May
in the second season in the NFL to take a
team that is undermanned and turn them into a good
football team all on his own. So in your mind,
have they done enough on paper and now we have
to go from paper to actually performance to really set
(06:52):
him up to succeed in year two because it's.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
As much on them as it is on him to
set him up. I think for year two they still
need to do more long term the answers. Maybe like
on paper they did, but it hinges on Will Campbell
and hinges on Stephan Diggs, and you're talking about a
rookie and you're talking about a thirty old guy coming
off with torn AZL. So that's if those guys both hit. Yeah,
(07:15):
I think May's in a really good spot. If neither
of those guys can play at a starter level, you're
not quite back to where you were last year, but
you're definitely not a great place.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I just feel as though there's been a lot of
talk about this about Drake, about him taking the year
or two leap, about him individually succeeding, and him is succeeding.
Maybe the only other thing I hear frequently about that
is Josh McDaniels, right, Josh McDaniels' role in Drake succeeding.
But to me, making a quarterback work is an organizational thing. Yes,
(07:49):
it's a top down organizational thing. Are you doing all
the right things to point the bus in the direction
of making your quarterback succeed. It's not just enough for
Drake May to be good on his own vacuum. It's
not good enough for him to have a good play
Calier in a vacuum. He needs to have the talent
around him and the support around him, and that to
me is a question mark. But it's also not totally
(08:11):
out of the realm that they did enough. But I
just have to see it. We have to see it now,
some of these win totals we hear ten and eleven,
twelve wins. If they're really going to reach that, it's
not going to just be Drake May. It's going to
be all of it. All of it's going to be better.
The defense is going to be better, the offensive line
is going to be better, the receivers are going to
be better, the situation will play, and coaching is going
to be better. All your stuff, you know, end a half,
(08:32):
end of game, how they handle clock and all that
kind of stuff will be better. So I put as
much of it on the organization, on Elliott Wolf, on Vrabel,
on McDaniel's on the players around Drake May as they
do on Drake May. So I'm curious to see where
they're at with that. So those are our big picture thoughts.
Let's get to your questions here. Start here with Andrew.
(08:53):
He's at Nest PGS. I'm sure a lot of you
people follow him out there. He said, Aside for maybe
a pass rusher and a tight end, what position do
you have in the back of your mind as a
sneaky need early in the draft next year?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Pass rusher and tight end? I mean wide receiver. I
guess isn't sneaky.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Right, I think that's no. That's the offant the right.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I'll go back to old reliable deep safety, real free safety.
Like that, real free safety. I'm gonna stay on that
one until you get that guy.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I'm gonna go linebacker, off ball linebacker, I really like
Robert Splane. I think they're higher on guys like Jack
Gibbons and Christian Ellis and Tavia potentially as well as
maybe some of the fans are, some of the outside
observers are. But they set themselves up nicely. Where Drake
may is the you know, obviously the twenty four draft,
(09:43):
the twenty five draft, you go left tackle, wide receiver,
like you go premium position yep, at the top of
both of these drafts. So in theory, the third draft
here with Elliott Wolf should be able to be some
of these other things right free safety, off ball linebacker,
guard like positions that aren't quite as valuable as left tackle, quarterback,
(10:05):
wide receiver. But if you have to keep repeating that
cycle of drafting receivers and left tackles, and you've done
something wrong in the previous drafts. So in order to
project and hope that they're building someplace of success, it's
there going in that direction of now they can hit
on an off ball linebacker, now they can hit on
(10:26):
free safety, now they can hit on tight ends. Like
these are not necessarily those types of positions that one
Boston fan he asks, well, we finally beat the Dolphins
this season after all their moves. Can't remember the last
time we beat them. So they beat the Dolphins at
the end of twenty twenty two. We talked about this
on last week's show. It was a Scoop Huntley Tyler,
(10:46):
what's there? Skyler Thompson Scoot Huntley game. It wasn't scoop
or snoop snoop Puntley. I thank you, Snoop Huntly game.
Not a too a game. But the Dolphins have beaten
the Patriots eight out of the last nine, and we
know that Tua has their number. Do they finally beat
the Tua Dolphins this year?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I don't know that Tua has their number so much
as the defense did. Like the Dolphins haven't scored a
ton of points in a lot of these games. They
scored timely touchdowns. You go back to the open up
one last year except for one last year. But like
the I remember crunching the numbers before the first game
last year, so maybe last year changed it. But the
Dolphins were scoring like below average against the Patriots. But
(11:27):
the Patriots offense was just non existent against the Dolphins,
and obviously some of that goes back to Brian Flores
who's a great defensive coach. But the Dolphin we talked
about this in the last show. The Dolphins defenses or
the Dolphins roster is not good, and the Patriots might
have a better roster on paper. You also have the
benefit of your playing Miami here or there early, here late,
(11:48):
both of which should be advantageous to the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It is.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It is set up for them to at least split
with Miami this year.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
The Miami game in Week two in Miami scares me
always will A. That's just a house of horrors for
the Patriots. Yeah, B it's terrible weather to hit Miami.
That's it's gonna bee hundred degrees. It's gonna be Miami
hot down there. And one of the things I give
the Dolphins a lot of credit for this. I don't
give the Dolphins credit often, but them putting the road
(12:16):
team in the sun when the home team sideline has
the shade, very very smart. So it's hot as balls
down there. So we're in the side like like we're
gonna shut the ac off and turn the hot water
off in the road team locker room. Uh, it's good stuff.
The Dolphins Week two of the season two is probably
gonna play by the end of the season. I don't
(12:38):
know if it's gonna be the quarterback right week two.
I feel pretty good about Tua being the quarterback for
the Dolphins, so that game worries me a little bit.
But the one here at the end of the season,
you would like to think the Patriots, that's gonna be
where they're gonna find their stride and they're gonna be
a second half team this year. We don't know what's
gonna happen with Miami. That could go upside down. And
then two, it might not be the quarterback, so if
(12:59):
he's hurt, so I like them winning the game here
later on in the year. Uh. This is from Jeremiah
He Jeremiah Vasquez. He asked in y'all's opinion, what does
a successful rookie season look like for Will Campbell?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Uh? I mean baseline, he stays at left tackle. Obviously,
city doesn't look like out over work. I don't know
starting caliber left tackle. Yeah, to put a number on that.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I don't even I don't think. I don't think there
needs to be a number. I think starting caliber left
tackle looks the part.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
You know what it's successful season is rookie season is
for Will Campbell. We're not talking about Will Campbell. Could
that's a success. The less we say his name this year,
the better. If we get to the end of the
year and we're like, yeah, well Campbell was pretty good,
we didn't really have to talk about him much like
that would be great. I would love to not have
to talk about Will Campbell this year. You know, offense
to Will Campbell, but like you know, if he's if
(13:54):
he's a stud, you know, I'm going to talk about him.
That's true this show, we'll talk about him. I guess
say we will talk about him.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
See that? Did you see that poll?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
A successful season is ninety eight five? Is not talking
about Will Campbell.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There you go, good way to put it. I would
also just the one number that I would like to
see for Will campbeill be respectable as penalties. He did
have some issues at LSU with fall Stars, so.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
That was really just last year. Wasn't a problem his
first two years.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So I'm not like, it's not a it's a small
seat concern, right, It's that it's not a big seat concern.
But I I don't know if I have a number
in mind for sacks because that's so subjective. It depends
on the matchup, it depends on this game script, like
all that kind of stuff. It's hard to say. Uh,
but in terms of penalties, that's a controllable, like he
can control.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Getting that they have a gauntlet of pass rushers at
the gate. It's gonna be Max Crosby.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, who typically does Those two guys typically line up
over the right side. But maybe because the rookies.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I would think if any coach worthy, dam's gonna hunt them.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, I don't know anyways that's true.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Well, I'll be Carrol, I'll get Pee Caroll. No, it's
Pete Carroll and Mike Tomlin. Don't figure it out.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I don't know if there were not. They're great leaders, great,
great Raw Raw guys. You know how I feel about
the Raw Rock guys.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
What are your This is from Jason m longtime listener.
What are your favorite prospects coming into the twenty twenty
five college football season. This is a big barth question.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
My favorite prospect So we talked about one guy a
little bit last week, and that's Jordan Tyson, the wide
receiver from Arizona. Yep, I know Arizona State.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You keep on trying to get me to watch him.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So, first of all, not to kill Harry. Don't do that.
I'm not doing that this year. I know he went
to Arizona State. I know that's where na Kiel Harry went. Brandon,
now you went there too. I'm not doing that. I
really like Jordan Tyson. There's a couple pass rushers I
like in this draft, and he Dennis Sutton from Penn State. Yeah,
I don't know. I'm not I was saying to somebody
the other day. I'm not really at the stage where
(15:50):
it's like I'm having like these hard hitting draft takes.
I'm kind of just that boy nice at this point.
One guy I am really looking forward to watching. Oddly,
and I'm gonna be big Arizona State guy this year.
Forks up Sam Levitt from Arizona State. Their quarterback isn't
getting nearly enough attention. We've talked about this before. I'm
(16:11):
not a big believer in Arch Manning. I'm not a
big believer in Kate Clubnick. I'm not a big believer
in Garrett nuss Meyer. I'm not a big believer in
Drew Aller. These are a lot of the top, not
all but a lot of the top rank quarterbacks in
this draft. I think Sam Levitt could surprise a lot
of people this year. Could He's young, you know, he's
relatively raw. Last year he made some plays, but the
youth is a parent. But that Arizona State team and
(16:32):
Jordan Tyson's young too. Jordan Tyson's gonna be I think
a red yard sophomore. So I'm really excited. There's some
potentially really fun players on that team. So I get
I don't know, I guess just Arizona State.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
So I hope the Patriots aren't drafting high enough to
draft Caden Proctor. But that guy's a stud.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
So there's But here's the thing, Francis Moigoa, I think
it is in Spencer Finot. The next two tackles in
the draft both right tackles.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, so that's a good segue because our.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Next way, I got one more.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
No, No, we got Caleb down. Okay, fine, but we
gotta go fast camp down. We're already twenty minutes and
we've answered like three questions. This next question it goes
with that last point you were just making. You probably
recognize this account. Boom eight zero five one seven asks
do we have a future starting right tackle on our
roster at the moment? Really curious how you think they
(17:23):
view Caden Wallace. I love this question because the answer
today as we record this on July second, is no.
I don't believe that they have a starting right tackle
on this roster of the future. Morgan Moses is the
twenty twenty five starter. But of the future. That doesn't
mean it can't be Caden Wallace. He just has to
show it, like he hasn't proved that to me yet.
(17:44):
So to your point, is there a world and I
know it would be somewhat unfortunate to use back to
back first round picks on tackles, but is there a
world where Will Campbell looks the part at left tackle?
We feel really good about that. So then you draft
a college right tackle to play right tackle in the
NFL with a high draft pick.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It's absolutely a possibility. I mean, we'll see what happens
with Kayden Wallace, We'll see what happens with the draft
where they're picking. I'm not gonna sit here and tell
you that's what's gonna happen. I don't know that it
would be the worst thing in the world. You know,
have your quarterback, both tackles on rookie deals, they're all
growing together. Like I'd be into that. We'll say, but
if Cayden Wallace works out, great, that's one less need.
Obviously you'd rather fill it in house. But if they
(18:23):
have to go into the draft to get a right tackle,
I wouldn't have a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So I really think that Caiden Wallace has an NFL future.
I just don't know if it's starting caliber future, and
I don't know if it's at tackle. It might be
a starting caliber guard. And so with Kayden Wallace, I'm
really curious to see him in camp. I'm gonna be
looking hard at Kayden Wallace in training camp and hoping
it works out. So that's that's from Boom. From Jeff,
(18:46):
he asks everyone uses the Cam Newton offense when describing
how McDaniels uses will use May. I know May is
a way more talented player, but could it approach? Could
it be more like the Matt Castle offense in two
thousand and eight? So I was in high school. We
were in high school in two thousand and eight, So
I don't I'm not going to sit here and pretend
to know the ins and outs of the scheme that
(19:07):
they were running from Matt Castle in two thousand and eight.
But I do remember that they ran Matt Castle a
decent amount comparatively speaking, obviously compared to Brady. I could
see it. But I think with Drake May he has
so much more arm talent than Matt Castle did that
there's more, there's more available that you can order on
the menu with Drake May than with Matt Castle in
the passing game, So I could maybe see where he's
(19:30):
coming from in terms of the amount of true runs
like design runs like it's not going to be Cam Newton.
He's not going to design run the ball one hundred
times like Cam did in twenty twenty. So I could
see where he's coming from. But I don't remember Matt
Castle running read option, like I don't really think that
was a big thing in the NFL to begin with
back then, and I don't really remember him doing it
(19:50):
a ton from what I'm watching as a fan back then,
But it's not a I could see where he's coming
from because maybe the skill sets are a little bit
more apples to apples, where Cam was a two hundred
and fifty pounds battering ram like body type wise, Drake
may is probably a little closer to Matt Castle, even
though he's more talented.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, a serious coming from it's gonna be its own thing.
I think it's really just gonna be its own thing.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
All right. Uh. Jason asks, what is a realistic, realistic
floor or ceiling for this team in terms of wins?
I feel like this is a popular question. Hype has
people putting them at like twelve wins and I just
can't believe that. So what's your floor and ceiling for
this team?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I mean, the ceiling if everything goes right. Will Campbell
justifies that pick. He's a Pro Bowl caliber tackle. Stefan
Diggs is fully healthy, He's a thousand yard receiver. Duggar
Pepper's both fully healthy. They bounce back, you know, for
the there's gonna be injuries for the most part, they
stay healthy. That's the core al year with Mondrie Stevenson
gets back in shape. So your ceiling, yeah, twelve thirteen wins? Wow?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Really?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
If everything I mean, if everything goes right on defense,
there are top five defense.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Okay, what's your floor?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Five six wins?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right? So I'm with you on the floor. I still
I could still see a world because remember they went
four games last year. Yeah, so even if they are
at like six or seven wins, I know it's not
the improvement that everybody wants, but depending on how it
looks like, it still could be an improvement.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well, so here's my thing. They have ten games on
their schedule that they should win.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah that they now I would say they're ceiling is
ten or eleven.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Well, okay, but here's the think they have ten on
their schedule they should win. They had six or seven
on their schedule last year that they should have won
at this time, and they won really three throwing out
Week eighteen. Right, So it goes back to what Mike
Vrabel said. It is introductory press conference. They need be
good enough take advantage of bad football. If you want
(21:40):
to talk true ceiling, best case scenario, that means winning
all the games you should win and stealing one or
two you probably shouldn't. That's how I get to twelve.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So I went to I have more around ten or
eleven because I think some of those games that we
think on paper right now that they should win are
gonna flip, and then some of the other games that
we think are not are going to flip the other
one game balances out to around ten or eleven games.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, all right, but that's not a ceiling.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's my ceiling.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
But that's not a like a ceiling is like everything
best case.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
The ceilings they win the super Bowl, if we want
to go that, I guess like realistic ceiling. I think
eleven wins is asking a lot. That's almost three times
as if they won.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Every single thing goes their way, they can win twelve games. Wow,
I hope you're right every single well, but it's not
because that's not how life works.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay, Alexander asks, what's something you want Drake May to
get better at? Like, what's one individual thing? So I'm
with you.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
What else did you think I was going to know? Now?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I would say, but specifically to not turning the ball
over fumbles? Yeah, that's a good strip sacks, Like if
they can eliminate the strip sacks. You got to live
with some of the picks because he's a gunslinger and
you don't want to take away that aggressiveness from his game.
But protecting the football, not fumbling the ball on strip sacks,
Like if you can just protect the football a little
(22:58):
bit better in the pocket and that's gonna go a
long way to cutting down the overall turnover number, which
is what we're really getting at here. Uh V he asks, uh,
this is a good one, Like this is my favorite one.
I enjoy watching you guys have arguments about analytics. Not
everybody does. Yeah, I'm I'm glad that V enjoys it.
(23:19):
What are your top three to five favorite metrics? Like
he's talking to me, of course, give an explainer of them,
and does Alex agree with your usage? Why or why not? Okay,
So I'm not gonna give a full in depth explainer
because I don't want to beat a dead horse.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
E p A, DVA and expected something or other.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Okay, so you're two out of three, I'm gonna give three.
E p A yeah, which I think is the best
stat we have in football. Yeah, DVA also really good.
E p A to me, measures better which offenses are
more dangerous, like more explosive? What's more volatile? Like whether
more explosive or more detrimental?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
You can win games being explosive on offense, you definitely
can't check your way out.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So to me, I look at it like it's not
just explosive, it's like which offense would you fear the most?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
No, it's exploit you talked about last week. It's exclosive
which offense would you fear the most? Versus which offenses
actively lose themselves points by like turning the ball over
in negative plays and things like that. We have stats
for those. They're called turnovers and negative plays DVA.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I love for consistency, like who's the most play to
play efficient consistent football teams.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
With the secret formula?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And then my last one is QBR, which I think
ESPN's QBR right now, to me is the best quarterback
metric we have.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Isn't that another secret formula one?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It might be, yeah, okay, but it's the best in
terms of measuring quarterback efficiency. This is production bas This
isn't fugazi expected things that you hate. This is what
did they do on the field production wise.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
You can't tell me exactly what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
No, But the thing that I like so much about
QBR is that it also factors in rushing for quarterbacks,
which I think if you're going to tell the full
story of the quarterback in twenty twenty five, you have
to include scramble yards, design runs, rushing, touch I'll.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Say this, I add quarterback rating, not QBR, like old
school quarterback rating antiquated and is a definitive number. There's
no expected it's stupid, it's random. I will stand with you.
I don't like quarterback rating, minor points, score, points allowed,
turnover margin. I'll tell you which teams are good, which
teams are bad. You show me those three things. H
(25:26):
point different let me do this, point differential, turnover margin,
third down conversion differential.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So I don't you show me those three things. I'll
tell you which I don't hate it. I don't hate
those necessarily. I love QBR. I think QBR is a
great sat. I also love the fact that QBR is
on a zero to one hundred scale that's based off
of win probability. So like, if you have a quarterback
that has a seventy QBR, you are expected to win
seventy percent of those games.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I think that word.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I think that's a great way to uh encapsulate quarterback
on field quarterback production, actual yards and touchdowns made by
your quarterback, and suffice the QB wins crowd at the
same time. Right, So if I, if it was up
to me, we would throw away antiquated passer rating. I
(26:12):
don't think anybody really uses pass I would never see
passer rating in an NFL box score ever. Again, do
you still see it in box scores?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
And we would only be using the ESPN box score
uses QBR their stats the better stats. I don't need either.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Room all right, quick asks, as the team is currently
constructed and realizing you're building roster, will take a few drafts.
Do you see Rabel and company using more high round
draft picks to rebuild the old line? So we kind
of answered this question already. I could definitely see that.
I think that they're gonna want to build from the inside.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
They're gonna they're gonna make that a priority.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
All Right. I hear a lot of they only won
four games last year, as from Will, why is there
so much comparison to last year's team? And besides like
twelve stars being between offense and defense, this team is
drastically different. So the fair point, I think the reason
why there's so much comparison is just it doesn't it
does happened that, oh, you know, one or two teams
(27:02):
a year ago, from Worris to first. We know that
the Patriots are definitely, possibly could do that. But there's
also the opposite, which is like a cyclical level of
losing where you see the same you know, the the Jaguars,
the Browns, the Titans, like these teams have been drafting
in the top five. It feels like for like ten years, right. Yeah,
maybe not the Titans because you know, if Rabel was there,
but recently with the Titans. So I think that that's
(27:23):
you know, the difference there. But it's a fair point.
I can't I don't really have a great rebuttal to that,
I think that's a It's a different team, there's no
doubt about that. Colin. He asks, what are three things
you're most excited to watch in training camp?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Three things? Well, we got to talk about Drake May.
See the defensive scheme and I guess see, I don't
know how much we'll see if Diggs, but see where
Diggs is at.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, I agree with that, Drake May. I would say
it's hard with the offensive line and defensive lines. But
Drake May whoever goes up against Christian Zales? Could any
receiver beat Christian Zales consistently in training camp? Because then
I might feel good about that receiver, Like if it's
(28:07):
Keishan Boodie, if it's Kyle Williams, if it's Stefon Diggs,
if that is like a true toe to toe, iron
sharpening iron type of matchup, will be excited about that.
In the offensive line, Drake made receiver, offensive line shocker?
Who will be this from Sasha? Who will be the
starting left guard to open camp? I'm saying col strange.
I'm saying col strange from Tim. Do you think the
(28:30):
Patriots offense will have a better year than the Dolphins offense? Yes,
I'm gonna say no. I still think the Dolphins have
too much skill talent, like a hill waddle they're running.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Who's not gonna play the full season? The line's bad.
The Dolphins offense will have higher highs over the course
of seventeen games. Which unit will be better the Patriots?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I think the Dolphins offense with two is still going
to be a really good offense.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
How many games are going to do ten? The Dolphins
seems to be the number all the time. Who averages
more points per game? Well, it'll be the Dolphins because
they'll have one game. Will they randomly score fifty?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I don't know. Probably Dolphins are gonna have games where
they're gonna be like like they were last year when
they played the Patriots. Like they're gonna have games where
they're knife hot, knife through, but.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
They're also gonna have gas where they can't. It'll be cold.
They'll be playing a team over five hundred, theyll struggle
to put up fourteen points. Fair enough, You're probably right
they'll be The Dolphins offense is much more volatile, and
I appreciate consistency, So I'll take the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Drew asks. Christian Gonzales took the leap last year to
all Pro caliber player. Who do do you who do
you think will be the player to make that jump
this year?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Say that again, who do you think the player would
make the jump this year? Like a Christian Zales esque
jump like Gonzales front from rookie good rookie to all.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Pro Keon White. I just I just think this defense
suits him so well. It's it's such a great spot
for him, It's a good coaching staff for him. You know,
there's gonna be a lot of attention on the in
the middle to Milton Williams and Christian Barmore. It's gonna
freem up, you know, will he be at the level
that Gonzales is relative to position. I don't know about that,
(30:05):
but you know, could key On White flirt with double
digit sacks this year? I could see it.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Karen White is the right answer. It's a good answer.
I don't know if like all pro's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
So I don't know that he's gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yah, I'm saying that about my answer, but I think
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So yeah, I don't know that he'll do it to
the extent that Christian Gonzalez did, but like he could,
I think he'll go to another level.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Is there another love for Tomorrow Douglas.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean he's just already pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
That one stands out to me just I was tempted.
There's still some trade chatter out there from our colleagues
on the beat. I saw Greg Bdard said that, you know,
he was one of the guys he listed his potential
trades out of that winer.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
They don't love that.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I just don't see that. I don't see it. I'm
not saying that the reporting is wrong.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I know that's the guy would hold on to. I
think he's a good player.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
This is a cool question from Elliott who is your
favorite Patriot player that didn't get enough recognition? He says
his is Kyle van Noy.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Here's Larry Centers.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
But like Larry Centers, it's think Larry Center should be
in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, but he by the
time he got to the Patriots, that was like the end.
I'm like somebody who didn't get enough credit with the Patriots.
Where do I start? You know the guy that I've
always said that they've they've been chasing this guy since
he left, Adrian Waddle. L Adrian Waddle was a true
(31:26):
swing tackle at a time they needed one. They've been
fighting tackle.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Disrespect. But Adrian Waddle is your answer.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
How many times does this team needed a serviceable swing
tackle in the last five years and he wasn't here.
Now he I think he had a career any injury
after he left. He's not playing anymore. But I remember
saying to you that next year when he left, we
were talking in the locker room and saying they missed
la Adrian Waddle, and you were like, that's crazy, but
it's true. I don't know why he's the first name
who came to mind. There's probably a better answer. Martella's
(31:55):
Bennett would be one super underrated Patriot. Loved having him here.
But I was just talking to somebody about this the
other day. They sneaky missed Ladrey and Wada when they
moved on. I bet I can think of it.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
So my biggest one, I don't know if he didn't
get enough recognition, but I don't think he got as
much high was Trey Flowers. Trey Flowers at his peak
with the Patriots was a darn good pass rushing. He
was really good. He's versatile, rush out on the edge,
you could rush over the center. He was like dynamite rushing.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Made me think of a couple. And maybe it's just
because this defense was so loaded. There were so many
dudes on that defense. Alan Branch was a really good
player and he was playing next Evince, and he kind
of came here late in his career, so I get
what I came.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Hicks were kind of like ones that got away a
little bit, like especially Hicks. Well Hicks Hicks went, but
that was like a scheme change.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Alan Branch came here when people thought his career was over.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Uncle Phil's nickname.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, because he looks like and he kind of turned around.
And then also from that defense, Kyle Arrington because he
got followed by Jonathan Jones, who's obviously been this incredible Patriot,
But Kyle Arrington was going, I'm trying to think back
to like the earlier, earlier teams.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Earlier teams like a lot of not not that they
shouldn't have, but a lot of those early Patriots teams.
All those guys got loved, I know, which they should have.
Like I'm not saying it shouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I mean, I don't like Roman Fifer Roman fight.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So what was I watching? Maybe it was just on Twitter?
And then we got to move on from this question,
but always do the rest to show on this they
were naming I want it was one of the early
two thousands defenses two thousand and one, three or four,
and they just I think it was four because I
think Vince was was already on the team.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yes, it would have been four.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Seymour, will Fork Warren.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And then when they got and I was like, okay, yeah,
it's stack dye line. Then they get to the linebackers
and they go Willie McGinnis to usc Teddy Bruski, Yeah, Arizona,
Roman Fifer, Mike Rabel, and I was just like, holy crap, Like,
how is this not talked about? Is like one of
the best linebacker rooms of the two thousands, So this
(33:58):
is insane.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I kind of him or I'll just bring this up
because we're in this conversation. I'm working on something with
Matt Doloff over at the Sports Hub. It actually might
be up by the time people see this. We haven't
recorded it yet, but again recording this show early. We
kind of want to do like an all sports sub
Patriots team. So the sports Sub started in two thousand
and nine, so but I want to do it as
(34:19):
like a fifty three man roster projection, So maybe not
the fifty three best players, but build out the roster.
Here's who I have to choose from a corner. This
is just since two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Okay, herr Yeah, because we're trying to keep this shorter.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Steph Gilmore, Malcolm Butler, Jonathan Jones, j C. Jackson, Christian
Zalez and keep to leave Drell Reeves, Jason mccordy, Kyle Arrington,
Jonathan Jones. It's tough group that's insane.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So we're talking to you're taking two.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Well, no, it's gonna be a fifth. We're gonna build
like a fifty three man, so you can have as
many as like five. So yeah, we'll probably have two
boundary guys, two slot guys, and then a tweener. So
like Gilmour is obviously on, I.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Think Gilmore Revis to lead law have to be.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Hon It's all sports ups. So two thousand and nine,
so those three, those are the four. But okay, but
like here's the thing, how do you weigh one year
of Darrell Revis versus like Jonathan Jones was here for
a decade and was really well, Johnthan Jones might be
your slot corner, that's true. One year of Revis versus
(35:20):
four years of Malcolm Butler who also had to pick
in Super Bowl forty nine. Me and me and Matt
are going to do this on a podcast. But that
what an insane run? Like Christian Zhaus at the bottom
of this list. Yeah, he's the last guy I put
on there. He's an all pro insane run.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Okay, So moving on, Rick asks, currently, I see the
Patriots top five wy receivers as Digs, Pop, Booty, Williams, Boorn,
to me, Digs and Williams are the only locks. My
question is do you trade Bourne to give Baker more
reps in preseason to see what they can do? So basically,
do you trade Kennrin Bourne.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I wouldn't. I also don't. If you'd want those two
guys to get reps, you can give him reps. I
don't think you need a trade anybody. These people forget
how long these preseason games are. Yeah, like you can
get them reps. I wouldn't trade Kendrick Bourne unless it's
in like we talked about last week, one of those
deals where all right, you know Terry McLaurin for a
second and born right, I would do that, But I'm
not rushing Kendrick Bourne out the door. He has chemistry
(36:16):
with Drake May, he has experience in Josh McDaniel's offense.
He's another year removed from that torn ACL so I
think he's gonna move a little bit better. I wouldn't
rush him out the door. And he's more proven, and
they need some proven commodities, even if it's not proven
at a high level. They need some guys who you
kind of just know what you're getting out of. That's
definitely not Polkin Baker.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, that's fair, all right. Tammy asks who hits six
six hundred and fifty yards from scrimmage first, Travon Henderson
or Kyle Williams. I'm going Henderson as well. I think
that's not really fair, No, because he's running totally differ
different because Henderson you can force feed the ball. Kyle
Williams has to get open and catch the ball. Yeah,
that's very different.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Nothing against Kyle Williams, but that's not it's not the same,
all right.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Rick asks after free agency in the draft, which position
group still is in need of a talent upgrade? So
my answer to this question is different. Like talent upgrade
versus which position am I most concerned about, I think
are two different things because I don't think you need
the Zach Martin of left guards, like I don't think
you need a stud at left guard. But if I
(37:21):
had to say what the biggest hole on the team
is right now, it's probably left guard just in terms
of starting caliber player. But the area where I feel
like they're the most talent deficient might be a little
bit different than that. I would say talent deficient. I
would more lean towards either receiver or edge rusher. I'm
with you, But in terms of where I think the
(37:43):
biggest hole is, it's still left guard, still the interior
offensive line. Quick asks, Could the Patriots take a flyer
on Zadarius Smith, Gabe Davis or Will Hernandez if they
get the veteran manhim, Will Hernandez guard played a little
bit in the league, was drafted by the Giants. Zadarius Smith.
I could see it, But like you already have Harold Randrey,
(38:03):
Harold Landry and Chase On Like those are kind of
your veteran edge rushers. I don't know if you need
a third one of those types of guys on the team.
So if I had to guess out of those three,
I'd say Will Hernandez or just you know, we talked
about Sheriff last week on the show. Want to say
Smith had nine sacks last year still, and I think
he has some between the Packers and Vikings, he must
(38:24):
have some overlap with the current car Oh and Mike Rablers,
with Mike Rable and Cleveland for part of last year.
I wouldn't hate Sindarius Smith again, You're you're creating a
little bit of a log jam that might not be
the worst thing in the world for how they're set
up right now, especially if they're planning on moving on
for me Anfredy Jennings, Yeah, I could see that all right.
Last one here, this is from Matt. How do you
(38:44):
think all the offensive line offensive mines, excuse me, offensive
mines in the room? Mesh. So I'm thinking he's talking
about the coaching staff. Yeah, there's a lot of guys
from different backgrounds. How do I think that they're gonna, Mesh.
Josh McDaniels is in charge, So I think they're gonna
as much as I want to have an open mind
(39:04):
and have you know, have McDaniels have an open mind
and hear out other people and bring in other ideas
and bring in fresh concepts. At the end of the day,
the way that you, Mesh, is that you recognize as
a positional coach that the offensive the buck stops with
the offensive coordinator. And I think that the onus is
on everybody for that. But I would say that there's
some bus on the positional coaches, like don't don't overstep,
(39:27):
like don't don't get too big for your bridges. You know,
you're the quarterbacks coach, you're the tight ends coach, you're
the receivers coach. You know, just do your job and
I think everything will be fine. But I that's not
to say live in an echo chamber, right, Like you
want to have those other ideas, but that if you
ask me how they mesh, they meshed by realizing that
Josh McDaniels is the guy in charge. Yeah, there we go.
So we did pretty good there. That was pretty rapid fire. Yeah,
(39:50):
right around forty minutes. So that's the show for this week. Sorry,
that's a little bit shorter, but I have some big
things going on, so I think I have a pretty
good excuse. But Alex and I will be back on
the twenty third, the first day of training camp. I
can't believe I'm saying that. That's absolutely crazy. So we'll
be back on Catch twenty two live on Wednesday, the
twenty third of July for the very first day of
(40:12):
Patriots training camp. So thanks so much for watching and listening,
as you guys always do. Big thanks to all the
male bag questions as well. Hopefully we got to all
of them and we'll see you guys in a few weeks.
Thanks for watching.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Hey, this is Deuce Thanks for tuning into the show.
If you really want to help us, make sure you
like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple Podcasts
or Spotify. Also make sure you follow us on the
New England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and
everything else that we do here at the Patriots. Thanks
a lot,
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