Patriots Catch-22 8/14: Key Takeaways and Observations from Joint Practices with the Minnesota Vikings

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two Podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex bart.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Bazar and Lazarren. Hello, everybody nailed it? Joined us always
by our bar.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bart Or did you
have to like control yourself when Tatum walked out to practice?
We'll talk without anything.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I want to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
In the second great question of Drake made by the
way good football talk listen.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
As every once in a while as a team employee,
I have to serve up the softball, all right?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
As about the Duke un c raveries not a softball
of those guys, haven't. That's the real deal.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Okay, So I want to I want to stick on
the topic hand Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I don't know how much basketball talk we're gonna get
into today. It is is Alex Bart in the host
chair on today's episode of Catch twenty two. Evan Lazar
in Minnesota for joint practices between the Patriots and Vikings.
So changing it up here a little bit today, We'll
still have plenty of Patriots content for you over the
next two hours plus. If you want to call, I
actually don't have the number in front of me. Evan

(01:17):
you know the.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Number five hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean you, I just have burned into my brain
six one seven seven seven nine zero ninety eight five.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
I don't want to start mixing up numbers there because
they'll give out the wrong number. Like one of my
big fears is giving out my personal number on the air.
I've never done. Hope I never do. But if you
want to join us eight five five Pats five hundred.
I also, I think I have access to the emails here.
I do Patriots podcasts at patriots dot com. If you
want to email in and talk to us, we can

(01:47):
do some of that as well. But I just kind
of want to touch base with Evan and get started
here on the joint practices in Minnesota. The second of
two just wrapped up, so we'll keep it pretty general.
Between the two. It kind of sounds like it was
a tale of two days. Patriots won the day on Wednesday,
Vikings came back, had a much better day today. So
not trying to avoid the conversation of today. I just

(02:10):
think we purposely are doing this show later in the week,
later in the day than we usually do, so we
can look at the picture as a whole. But just
to catch anybody up who wasn't following along. Evan, your
quick summation of what today.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Was, Yeah, what you just put it a tale of
two days. I think that's a really fair way to
point to put it.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
And I think overall, like that's kind of.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Positive, right that the Patriots were able to win a
day against a team that won fourteen games last year
and has aspirations for the playoffs once again here in Minnesota.
So I still come out of it overall feeling positive. Now,
with that being said, we have to be honest about
what we saw out there today, and I don't think
anybody was too thrilled coming off the practice field with

(02:53):
how the Patriots played today so offensively to me, at
the more, if you want to look at the glass full,
it's that Drake May seemed to carry himself well and
perform well against a really creative and exotic Brian Flores defense.
I thought he kept his head and saw the field
pretty well, which is good to see. No turnovers, no

(03:15):
uncharacteristic mental errors from Drake May, So that was good
to see. But the two big things that we talked
so much about Alex with this offense are receiver separation
and pass protection. Right, are they going to be able
to check those two boxes? And I thought today the
Vikings defense had great coverage, sometimes they had great pass rush,
and they really were able to control practice.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
The one thing about that and something that stood out
to me and we talked about after the joint practice
practice with Washington, was I, you know, it was a
great day. I don't want to take away from what
that day was because I think that the team had
a really good day. I think overall, the offense looked
better than what you'd probably see if he went back

(04:00):
and combed through the film, because I think Drake May
elevated the situation at times, whether that was fitting the
ball in the tight windows, throwing guys open, creating windows
where he was placing the ball, whether that was him
maneuvering in the pocket and being his own best pass protector.
I felt like that was a theme throughout that day.
And I know I heard you on with Matt McCarthy
and Mark Dunderrow on the Sports before this. It sounds

(04:22):
like Drake May did some more that, maybe more so
on Wednesday than today, but I think between the two
days did some more of that.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
In Minnesota, Yeah, I would agree with that, And like
I said, I thought he just saw the field well
against a really creative defensive coordinator and a guy that
even Vrabel talked about more yesterday than today. Just the
amount of stuff that Brian Flores throws at you the
front of you know, the multiple fronts and the coverage
rotations and all the creative stuff that Floras did. So

(04:50):
the fact that Drake May was mentally able to have
a grasp on it and stay sharp in that respect
again was an overwhelming positive. And there weren't couple of
throws that were close today to Pop Douglas. In particular,
one that was a drop, a clear drop. One went
off one of his hands and was maybe a little
bit in front of him, but I think still could

(05:11):
have been taught that. If he catches those two passes,
and there are two big plays that we can look
back on, maybe that makes us feel a little bit
more optimistic overall about how the day went. But I
still feel overall on Thursday that we have conversations now
about pass protection and maybe not as much about receiver separation.

(05:33):
Like the big thing that yesterday brought Alex was that
the Vikings were getting home with the pass rush on
both days, But yesterday the Patriots had a couple that's
called him four or five plays where they were able
to block it and Drake May was able to hang
in there, and those were big, big plays down the field, right,
Like I know a lot of people have probably seen

(05:54):
some of the clips of Trayvon Henderson on the wheel
route or Matt Collins getting behind the defense, So it
was almost like two sides that were exchanging haymakers back
and forth. Whereas today we didn't see as many of
those punches back by the Patriots offense outside of that
Kishan Bouti throw at the end of it of practice.
So I feel like maybe today we saw a little

(06:17):
bit more of the Vikings defense leaning on them. But
Drake May, again, I think he handled it pretty well.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, it sounded like, I mean maybe some of those
yesterday were broken plays, which look, you want them taking
advantage of defensive breakdowns. There were times last year where
they didn't even do that, So that's encouraging when the
offensive line did have its tissues, And it should be
noted no Jared Wilson today, I unless I missed something
when I was driving here, Evan, I don't know if
you've seen that. There's no update, right, I know he

(06:45):
was at practice, he left early, but it wasn't you know,
he didn't clearly get injured. He just left and it
was Ben Brown in for him. Right, I'm not missing
any part of that story. Okay, So should be noted
they didn't have their starting left card today, Morgan Moses.
I believe practice both days, right, correct? So okay, So
so still five of five one day four or five

(07:05):
the other Ben Brown was in their left card today
when it didn't work for the offensive line, in your mind,
what went wrong? Was it just guys getting powered? Was
it more of those line games giving them trouble like
in the game against Washington last week? Like, what what
were the pros and cons for the offensive line this week?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
I thought yesterday most of the breakdowns that I saw
on the offensive line were mental of Flora's just spinning
the dial upfront and getting free runners to the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
And that's gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
That those scheme brushes, especially from Flora's, that that's going
to happen today.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
There are probably some more physical.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Like one on one breakdowns, and really looking at the
left side of that line with Campbell and Ben Brown,
And I do wonder here if Wilson does miss any
sort of time with whatever he's dealing with, is Ben
Brown entrenched as the top in tier back up? Because
that's what we found out today a little bit. You
know that Ben Brown is currently the top interior.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
So I was going to ask you that, like what
does that mean for Cole Strange?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Right? Like?

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Do we does that hold though? Moving forward? Do they
give a look to Cole Strange? Do they give a
look to City sew or Leyden Robinson. I actually think
Makay Butler has really acclimated himself pretty well, had some
standout reps in one on one. So is it are
they set in stone with the five that we've seen
most of camp and then Ben Brown is that top

(08:26):
interior backup?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Is that one hundred percent what it's going to be?

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Because I didn't think that Ben Brown had a great
day today, So maybe that's the spot that they look
at and maybe they make a change. But overall, you know,
I think a lot of the pressure today was the
Vikings front Dallas Turner Jonathan Grenard certainly had his way
a little bit with Will Campbell.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Those were the things that we were seeing out there.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
All right, talk to me about these receivers. It sounds
like pretty much across the board, the receivers had a
good week. I didn't see too much about any The
receiver is not having a great day. The big thing
to me, my big receiver takeaway from the week, admittedly
not being there, was that. Mike Vrabel today was asked
to clarify some comments Todd Downing made on Monday back

(09:13):
here about with Stefan Diggs. The big thing with him is,
you know, when he doesn't get the ball, still understanding
he's doing his job when the volume's not there. And
we can get to that comment itself if you want.
I think Diggs is going to get the ball in
volume in this offense. We've talked about this. He's probably
gonna be their big sluck guy. But within that answer,
so Rabel's asked about that comment with he kind of says, yeah,

(09:36):
you know, it's it's really about the process of this
time of year, not as much as the results you're
getting open or you're creating such a separation even if
the ball is not coming your way, and unprompted, he
brings up Kyle Williams as an example of that. It
mentions Kyle Williams has been doing a lot of what
they like, even if the ball's not coming his way,
And it sounded like, ironically the ball came his way
more today after Rabel said that. But like I heard

(09:58):
that as that's just on the TI off his mind, right,
guy who's having a good camp even if the production's
not there. I need an example, Oh, Kyle Williams. So
I know some people have questioned where has he been
at The reports have been kind of quiet. It is
tough when you watch these practices and we can't go
back over the film to kind of highlight guys that
aren't maybe around the football as much. And when you

(10:20):
know it happened in the game, right the game, we
had that opportunity. We went back, we looked, we talked
about it. I called it maybe the best game I've
ever seen a wide receiver play where he didn't catch
a ball. So that was my big wide receiver takeaway
just from the week and all that. What about yours?

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, So I think it's sort of twofold, Like one
is the roster conversation who's going to make this team?
And then the other is just how they actually went
out there and performed in the practices. So I'll start
with the performance it was. I thought Diggs yesterday, Look,
this is this is old stomping grounds for him. He
obviously Minnesota is the team that drafted him, the team

(10:57):
that traded him.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
So there's a lot of you know, there's.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
A lot of feelings I'm sure for Stefon Diggs when
he comes back here, both positive and negative.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
So he showed out yesterday.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yesterday was one of the best days of practice that
Stefon Diggs has had in my mind since the Patriots,
since he got to the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
So that was really good to see.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Bob Douglas had his moments, you know, he had a
couple of drops or the balls go off as hands
to day that you know, maybe could have been completions,
but I thought, again, was getting open a decent amount
on both days, so that's a positive. And then that
third spot is really currently a battle between MATC Collins
and Kayshawn Booty as to who's gonna be that true

(11:40):
outside X receiver for their starting offense. And that dovetails
into like do they start to have the conversations of
Kyle Williams potentially competing for that role here soon moving forward.
So I thought, like you said, it was a better
day for Kyle Williams, or shouldnt even say better, it
was a more noticeable day for Kyle Williams.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Today.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
He caught two passes from Joshua Dobbs, who, by the way,
Dobbs had.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
A really nice pea.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I wanted to get to that.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
But he caught two passes from Dobbs in red zone,
one little snag route for a short completion, but a completion,
and then the other was an incut on the goal
line for a touchdown. And it was ironic or funny
that Rabel brought that up today. And then Kyle Williams
flashed a couple of times in eleven on eleven.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
So a better day for him.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
You know, they were better in sevens than they were
elevens in terms of the starters. But I did think
that at times there was some really tight coverage by
the Vikings and the Patriots. You know, top flight receivers struggled,
especially in the red zone periods to get separation. Now,
the last thing I got to mention, because the island
is expanding for Efton Chisholm.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Okay, why is it an island? Forton Chism? That is
a cornerback thing. That is a quarterback thing.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
The island is expanded, but it's not an island.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
He's not a paper. That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
People are building houses, people are moving in.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
There's moving truck.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I'm sorry, I'm not there. I'm not on the in
on the inside joke, but like you gotta come up
with another analogy.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
No, I'm not coming. That's that's the analysess, not a cornerback.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
But I have no idea what that has anything to
do because that's the the island thing is associated with cornerbacks.
It always has been, it always will be.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
This is to This is honestly a Bill Simmons thing,
like Bill Simmons talks about players all the time, like
he like he's a big, big guy with certain players
that are under the radar or whatever.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Afton Chisholm. Regardless you want to get mad, I'm calling
it an island.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I'm not saying it. I just think it's analogy.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
They're actually they're buying land and then they're building houses.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
So if you want some land on ft chishom Island alls, you.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Better start to purchase right now because it's getting a
little crowded over there. He he was the best receiver
with the twoes today by a country. Like the second
string defense by Minnesota had his hands full with Defton Chisholm.
Now it's the twos on the twos right, So we're
not talking about him going up against like a Byron

(14:10):
Murphy for example, with true starter reps. I don't know
how we get there because the Digs and Pop Douglas,
who both had really good camps, especially Pop has really
emerged as a consistent threat.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
So I don't know how you're getting Chisholm.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
You know, maybe they have that Edelment Ammondola thing going
on right where both of them kind of play in
passing situations. But I'm getting to the point now where
with Defton Chisholm that I have a hard time in
envisioning a scenario where he doesn't make this team. Like
he's playing his way onto the roster, and it just
seems like he keeps getting better and better every single day.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
You know, we can talk about some of the individual plays.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
I thought the best one that he had was a
corner route in the back pylon of the end zone
from Joshua Dobbs Or. Not only did he create a
window or some separation there, but then he also finished
through some contact at the catch point. So you see
some physicality or play strength there to be able to
shield the catchpoint and finish through contact. He'd separated on

(15:08):
a wheel route that was more schemed open than it
was like a great route, but still like his understanding
of concepts and space and all that good stuff has
been present.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
He was just he was open.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
You know, he was open consistently throughout the entire practice.
And like I said, I don't know how they get
reps for him with Drake May like who had.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Why do you think he's not running more with the ones?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Because I think I think that's why.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Like you know, if you're if you're the one, like
right now you know digs and is forward of that
Z roll and pops the slot and like are you
gonna take Like I guess you could take those guys
off the field sporadically to give Chisholm. You know some
sprinkled in one reps, right, but it's hard. I think
it's I don't think that they are in a spot
yet with him where he's better than those guys. So

(15:58):
I hear you like, it's in interesting and I would
love to see it. I would love to see him
with the ones to maybe get it, just to get
a look at how he does that's a.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Position, just to get a look. And we were here
for Jakobe Myers when he was a UDFA and he
did this and it would like it looked good and
he was beating the twos, but it didn't really become
real until suddenly he's out there catching passes from Brady
and it was Okay, this is the real deal. And look,
Ultimately that wide receiver room did not amount to being much,
but it was crowded. It was crowded, just like this

(16:28):
one is. So I'm not saying toism's not gonna make
the team. I think he is. I just like to
kind of see him start one, see him against the
top corner, se him against Marcus Jols, right, and just
start building that chemistry with Drake may. I think that's
important too. Is seven wide receivers in play for you?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think it asked to me because I thought Jayvon
Baker had another nice day today too, you know, I
thought he made some plays two the two's like really
as much as I had concerns about the ones, and
I know we all really only care about the ones,
but the twos hadn't had a much better day than
the ones today if you're looking for positives, and Jay
Von Baker made a couple plays. He's been consistently contributing

(17:09):
on special teams, and they're making a lot out of
the fact that he's contributing so much on special teams.
So that's a big element to that as well. So
I do think that you're in the conversation now maybe
keeping seven wide receivers.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
I'm with you though on Chishlm.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Like I, it's to the point now with Chishm where
they have to start to think about sprinkling some reps
with Drake May and maybe after this practice today, if
he has another preseason game like he had against Washington,
we go back to Foxborough next week and efton Chishlm
is running with some with the ones, right, I could

(17:47):
see that totally happening. But it's it's been impressive to
watch his really that Commander's preseason game. I feel like
the light kind of came on right, he had a
decent game. He had some in the second half of
that game, and then this week he's just been Joshua
Dobbs's go to guy on that second unit.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
So I could definitely see that.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
So it was funny if Abel was asked before practice
if there could be a battle for the second quarterback job.
He kind of shot it down, Like he didn't entirely
close the door. He kind of shot it down. But
I think it was interesting he was asked that and
then josh Dobbs comes out. I'm not saying like Josh
jobs hurt it and got motivated, but.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Right, I'm sure in the meeting rooms, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Right, exactly, good day for Josh Dobbs, which I think
he kind of needed.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, I would agree. I would agree with that.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Else, we're on the Travon Hendr like just Trayvon Henderson.
That's how real is this. He's been awesome this summer.
We've seen player and I don't I'm not wishing this
on or anything. We've seen players have great summers and
then not you not one hundred percent translate, but this
one feels pretty real, doesn't it.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, under I mean Alex for getting old says, our
is our eighth training camp.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well you're seventh because you were back and forth to
New York in twenty eighteen.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
I was mostly here eighth training camp and the this
is the best skill player that I've seen them get
through the draft in my time easily covering this team
and your boys on on the sports ub today. I
think it was Don Daro asked me, like, when's the
last Like since when?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Right?

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Like we know it's it's the best skill player they've
drafted in the last four or five years, But like
how far back are we really going? And when you
start to think about it, like do you have to
go all the way back to the Grand Crenandez draft,
Like do you have to go that far back?

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Like you might?

Speaker 3 (19:40):
I mean, so, the one thing he's special talent, Like
he's a special like his speed is different, he's physical,
his past protection is unbelievably good. He's I just don't
really have anything that I look at him as a
running back besides the fact that he's not you know,
the size of like a Derek Henry right, Like he's

(20:00):
not a big back, yeah, but for the skill set
that he has, like that he's he's big enough and
he's strong enough. I'm just running out of reasons to
not think that this is real, or I think it's
just different because he just looks different.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
I think so I heard that question, is like impact
from a rookie as a whole in their rookie year. Ironically,
my mind went to Jack Jones because he had a
decent year as a rookie. But I mean, going back
before that, you talk about impact in his rookie year,
Sony and not Sony Michelle. Ramandra Stevenson in twenty twenty
one had a pretty good rookie year. But then you

(20:36):
go back, like Sony down the stretch that's twenty eighteen,
and then before that, you know, is it if we're
just doing any rookie I think it's Chandler Jones and
Dante hi Toower.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
In terms of thinking, yeah, right, I was a skill position. Yeah,
you're you're you're probably going that far back. I mean,
Sony Michelle had an impact. I would say he had
a pretty significant impact. It was different because he wasn't
a big play threat, right, but he had a tremendous
impact on that team. You can't say he didn't.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, he had an impact.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
For sure, but I would just you mentioned it just there,
like it's the big plays, right, you know. Even today,
which wasn't a great day for the offense. You know,
they were working out of maybe from like the ten
to twelve yard line, and they opened up a little
bit of a crease for him on an outside zone
run and he just exploded through the hole and just
ran right into the end zone. It was like the

(21:31):
cleanest run that they probably had over the two days.
And you just see the speed. You know, the wheel
route's going to get a lot of attention. But there
was actually a play earlier on a similar kind of
route where he had a defender on him and he
was able to go up and get the ball and
finish through some contact. At his size, he's got ability
to win at the catch point as well. And then

(21:52):
the pass protection, like I mentioned before, he had he's
had some ridiculous pass protection reps over the last two days.
He took a guide today that kind of was jumping,
you know, in the air to try to back down
and Drake may pass and traveon Henderson. They all, you know,
with offensive lineman, they always say punish jumpers, right if
the guy's gonna jump in the air, then you should

(22:13):
get your hands on him and you should throw him
to the ground one hundred and whatever ninety five pounds.
Travion Henderson takes a linebacker who's jumping in the air
and just throws him down into the ground, and like
you're just like, this guy is just he's just really
good at football.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
He's just a really good football player.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Now, it's practice, it's preseason, like all those things aside,
but you can see it, like you can you know
the difference. And frankly, like we've seen skill players that
they've drafted early that don't have that kind of juice,
and we know what that looks like. Probably a little
bit too much, right, Like, we know what that looks
like a little bit too much on the flip side
of this. So when you see a guy like Trevion

(22:52):
Henderson do what he does, you can tell that it's different.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Anything else on the offense from you from the the
last couple of days.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
I would you know, the tight end position was a
little quiet, I thought.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yesterday west the top full deck.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, so Jack Westover was still in there.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
He's Jack Westover's usage is actually kind of interesting for
us nerds because he's with the ones, he's running at
full back, and then they're also still sprinkling in some
tight end you know, pure tight end reps with the two's,
so they maybe have a plan or a role in
mind for Jack Westover. I could see that sticking. And

(23:30):
you know, Hunter Henry didn't practice yesterday.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
He was back today.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Him and Hooper caught some touchdowns in red zone that
were probably some of the better eleven on eleven plays
that the Patriots had today, So that that was good
to see. I go back to the offensive line though,
because it's just such a sticking point.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
For this team.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
I just think everything for them offensively starts an end
with the ends.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
With the line.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
I think Drake may is gonna be good. I think
Josh McDaniels is gonna get guys open if they're able
to block, if they're able to hold up up front.
McDaniel's gonna scheme it up like he'll get guys separation,
He'll get guys open. He'll use play action, he'll use picks,
he'll use stacks and bunches, he'll use motion like, he'll
do different things to help these receivers get off the

(24:14):
line of scrimmage and get open. I have no doubt
about that. I think the questions that you just have
are really the middle of the line. You know, how
does that solidify itself? Garrett Bradbury, Jared Wilson or wherever
he's at left guard, and then Campbell? You know Campbell today?
You know Grenard, Grenard had the advantage. You know, there's

(24:34):
no doubt about it. You know, some of these sacks
you don't know right, Like he kind of taps Drake
May on the way by, Like what do you have
sacked him in a game?

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (24:43):
But that's really where I'm at, And it's kind of
like where I've just been at, I guess, And really
it's where just keep going in circles with this with
the offensive line that it's It's just that's the sticking point.
If they can block consistently, then I think they're gonna
to be a pretty good offense.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Just real quick on westover to go back. I actually
talked to Thomas Brown on Monday about him, and he
said one of the things that stood out to him
is that versatility, the ability to play full back and
play why and play f tight end. So if you're
the Patriots, Right, and you want to keep a third
tight end and you want to keep a full back, Well,
Westover maybe saves you a roster spot because if he
can do both, well, now, maybe that's where the seventh

(25:24):
wide receiver comes from, or that's where a tenth offensive
lineman comes from, or another corner or something like that.
And look, when you want to go super heavy, right
and you want three tight ends and the fullback, you
just put Caden Wallace whoever, up on the line of
scrimmage and he begins your third tight end. So I
think Westover's probably and I don't Again, I haven't been

(25:44):
there this week, so you we're gonna have to fill
in the blank blank. From the last two days, it
feels like Westover's going to make the team and be
the fullback. At least that's what it felt like to
me before they left for Minnesota.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, I definitely think that that's where we're at now.
The question that I have with Westover is the fullback
not on the roster?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Is there a waiver a guy that gets placed on
waivers or cut on cutdown day?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Does a team not that they.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Were going to have a traditional fullback and then they
got into camp and realized that they kind of wanted
to pivotwa pivot away from a traditional fullback, and you
could trade for one or just acquire one somehow from
a different avenue because Westover's had some good blocks. He
caught a team touchdown from Joshua Dobbs in the one
minute drill to end practice today. That was a nice moment.

(26:36):
So it's not that he has no plus plays or highlights,
whatever you want to call it to think about. But
I don't know if, like I had on my Bengo card,
that Jack Westover was going to make this team. And
I don't necessarily think that it's like an Efting Chisholm
situation where he's really just coming on strong to make
the roster.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
So we'll see.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
But your point about his versatility is really what it
is is if he can do that, if he can
kind of be a jack of all trades, then that
might be enough.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Again, we'll go We'll go pretty phone and email heavy
today eight five five, pass, five hundred. I want to
hit on a couple more things from the joint practice.
I also realized we haven't had a show since the game,
so we should probably talk.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
A little bit about that. That's true.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
I know how tough it is with these joint practices
when they're on two fields at once and he can't
watch everything, and it sounds like you're watching mostly the offense.
So all just like like big picture thoughts on the defense.
It sounded like they had a better day yesterday than today.
How much did JJ McCarthy suck? Like, what'd you see
from that unit?

Speaker 3 (27:33):
So I wish I could report that JJ McCarthy had
two terrible days.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
No, I'm just kidding, but I you know, we both.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I know he had won. I know from seeing the reports,
I know he had one.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Felt about JJ McCarthy he had a good day today
all by all accounts, And I'm comparing notes with Deuce
and other people that were watching defense. It wasn't it
wasn't a lot, right, but everybody that had two people here,
it felt like they divided and conquered over the last
couple of days.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
But I would you look at the defense.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
I think there was some pressure on McCarthy, which is
good to hear. You know, Christian Barmore was back out
there today. Sounded like early on in the practice he
was able to get some pressures and get in the backfield.
Yesterday it was Landry and Williams that were sort of
ups or stars of the day on the defensive side
of the ball getting in the backfield. So it does
sound like, even though McCarthy kind of you know, punched

(28:24):
back today, so to speak, that the defense and the
pressure had was impactful or noticeable. I think the things
that defensively that were you know, there are things that
just stir on my mind and I want to well,
let's go one at a time, because I think there's
a lot to unpack. The biggest thing that's on my
mind right now is how they're going to cover tight ends? Yeah,

(28:46):
and I don't just mean that who's going to cover
the tight end? I mean literally how like, what's the
game plan, what's the scheme, what's the x's and knows
of how they're going to go about covering tight ends
in this defense because we knew with Belichick man to
man defense, they had those tight end stopps, you know,
the safety hybrids that they would use a lot on

(29:06):
the tight ends. But in this camp and these joint practices,
even going back to the one in Foxborough with the
commanders that you can speak to more with Ertz, like
Ertz has given them problems last week, and Howkinson has
given them problems this week. And we all know who's
coming here week one with the Las Vegas Raiders and
brought Bowers. So I want to get to ahead of

(29:28):
ourselves to start talking about week one.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
But how are they going to cover them? What's the
schematic wrinkles?

Speaker 3 (29:34):
And who is equipped in this defensive back room to
cover them? Because yesterday they primarily put Jabriel Peppers on TJ.
Hockinson and that didn't go so well. Today it sounded
like it was a lot of Marcus Jones on TJ.
Howkinson and that didn't go particularly well either. So what
are they doing there?

Speaker 1 (29:55):
So there were two things I want to ask them.
They both kind of relate to this. What it was
Carl Davis more involved.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Today, Yes, the outside?

Speaker 1 (30:04):
How did he look? Does he look healthy? Does he
look good?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah? He looks he looks normal. He looks like Carlton Davis.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
You know, I didn't think that his guys were really
the primary guys honestly, and I don't mean to pick
on him, but the guy that that really got picked on,
which kind of is my second thing here, was Marcus Jones.
You know, Marcus Jones was the one that they were
really targeting.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
But but one of these things, well, so okay, and
I want to get back to that. And there's another
part of this that we need to mention too, obviously
if you're we'll get to him. Was this because this
happens with Marcus Jones every once in a while. Did
Marcus Jones struggle because he was out of position and
he was getting beat on leverage and he wasn't reading

(30:43):
routes right? Or did Marcus Jones struggle because he's five
eight and they're asking him the guys to they're asking
him to cover guys that are six five because the
second one, okay, so that one doesn't bother me. Just
and look, I like Marcus Jones. He's a good player,
and I think he plays with tremendous physicality for his size.
I do, It's part of what makes I'm a good player.
There's still a limitation to that in terms of height.

(31:04):
Like I remember when they had him, I think it
was twenty two. Was it twenty one or twenty two? Well,
he was in the twenty two drafts, It wouldn't have
been twenty one. The Bengals came here in like November,
and they had him covering T Higgins and he was
on T Higgins for most of the game, but they
just started throwing T Higgins jump balls and at the
end of the day, I mean they both have elite verticals.

(31:24):
You start at six' five versus started five to, eight
one guy's gonna. Win so that that doesn't bother me so.
Much Like Marcus jones shouldn't be covering tight. Ends you
shouldn't be asked to be doing that just size. Wise
it's not a. Fit Carlton davis could be an. Answer
the other guy who probably is not an answer here
based on what we've seen this, camp BUT i wonder

(31:45):
if he was supposed to be a part of the
answer to that question and it hasn't worked, out Is
kyle Dugger and for people who have missed, It Kyle
duggar's running with the twos today With Jabrill peppers, out
it sounds like he was still with the twos and
it was Del pettis moving, up if that's. Correct, Devan
was that the, Case.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, yeah that was the.

Speaker 6 (32:05):
Case.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah like With, douger let me be, clear, boy that
they're Not douger's usage is not reflected of a player
who's outright. Cut that, Is AND i don't mean to
pick on the guy because you, Know i'm a fan of.
His That Anthony jennings is being used like a player
who's not gonna make the. Team Avery jennings is on
the scout. Team that's. It he played till the end
of the preseason. Game, like that's indicative of a player
who they don't play. On keep picking. AROUND i hope

(32:26):
they can trade. Him it would really suck to have
to cut a player that has his talent but he's
not a fit for the. Defense, FINE i get. It you,
know maybe you can find him a, Role BUT i get.
It Kyle duggar is being used like a bubble. Player
Kyle dugger's being used like a player who's you, know
if you were to rank the roster one to ninety
fifty three guys make, it he's probably fifty four to fifty,
five fifty, six, right so or fit between fifty and fifty,

(32:50):
six just on or just. Off what complicates it is
he's on a fourteen million dollar contract that they really
don't save a lot of money this. Year if they cut,
him they save, money they trade, him they save money
for the. Future but you could also cut him after
this year and still save that. Money so do you
keep a fourteen million dollar? Woid essentially would be a,

(33:11):
Backup and there are some questions that go into. That
how would he handle? That you, know what are your other?
Options so JUST i guess putting that all on the.
Table what have you seen For kyle From Kyle, Duggart
where do you think this? Goes?

Speaker 3 (33:26):
WELL i would just take From Kyle, DUGGART i would
just Take Michael mike rabel At fay's value here when
he says it's. Sad his answer yesterday to The dugger, question,
yeah was that it's mostly, mental, right it's, system it's
a scheme. Change and even though there's a different coach
here last, Year Kyle duggar has only ever been in

(33:46):
The belichick defense since he got. Drafted so when he
comes in here and now he's in a whole new
defense and he's learning not to pick on where he
went to. School But Leonora ryan was probably not running
AN nfl, defense, Right and so like we're really talking
About Kyle DUGGER'S nfl experience all being in The belichick,
playbook and now you put this new defense in which

(34:09):
is a lot more split, safety it's a lot more quarters.
Based there is still Manton, man but it's just. Different
and so the guys that are getting, Run Craig, Woodson Jalen,
howkins like those guys are pure free.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Safeties they're. PRIORITY i Think.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Craig woodson's a pure free safety or more of a,
TWEENER i, see it's.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
MORE i think he's a pure free.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Safety SO i think would you put him on tight
ends Or?

Speaker 3 (34:33):
NO i don't think, so BECAUSE i think the biggest
issue that they had With hockinson.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Today, hey and.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
And maybe you KNOW i watched a little bit more
of it today than, yesterday is that it's not that
they're guys that there are covering him are getting. Dusted
it's catch points, stuff, Right And Greig woodson doesn't have
a great length and armspan, Either so like that's the
biggest issue is, that you, Know Marcus, jones you mentioned
the five foot eight. Thing it's not just that he's

(35:00):
only five foot, eight it's also that his reach just isn't.
Great so when he gets on the back of a
tight end and the tight end is just able to
just box him. Out like it's not even about, elevation
it's also just about catch, point you, know ability to
reach into the cookie.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Jar there and get the ball when he's.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Targeted SO i just look at this like schematically to
talk about it From max's nose, Standpoint is it just
as simple as when you face a really good tight
end like A hockinson or like A, bowers that you
have a primary man to man, defender but you also
are either bracketing, him or you have robber help or

(35:41):
low hule, help or he's playing off of help to
the middle of the field so that it's helping him
take away certain routes and he can just kind of
focus on covering the seams and covering you know that
type of. Thing, Right we've seen that in the past With,
belichick that he would do that against you, know number,
ones you, know really good. Receivers but then like the

(36:01):
other side of that is is when they go in
against an offense that has you, know other playmakers where
you might not be able to commit all those resources
to covering a tight, end and then there's really one
on one matchups with the tight, end, Right, like then
what do you do because, right now Like ERT's last,

(36:22):
week it was kind Of Kyle, dugger and that's sort
of what started this whole thing With Kyle. DUGGER i
think is That ERT's had a lot of connections With
Jayden daniels in the joint practice with The. Commanders you,
know this, Week conkinson has picked on some guys. Too
so my, QUESTION i guess to you and just to
for the sake of, conversation like Because Alex austin get

(36:43):
into this mix at some, point maybe like that's the
only other guy THAT i can think, of because you're
gonna Have Christian gonzalez And Carlton davis as your primary.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Corners Alex austin's had a nice.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
CAMP i think he's AN nfl. CORNER i think he's
a third corner in this. League but maybe in order
to get him on the field and to get some
size on those tight, ends like maybe you could not fully,
convert like you can still play some outside, corner but
maybe in certain game, Plans Alex austen is the guy
that on third down is covering the tight.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
End, well, look If rabel comes from that That belichick,
background where we Know bill would look at elite tight
ends and treat them like wide. Receivers he called them wide.
Receivers so is it you're Calling Alex austin a safeter
or is it you're calling Brock bauers a wide, receiver
BECAUSE i think it might be more of the. Latter and,
YEAH i MEAN i don't Hate Alex austen as a

(37:37):
tight end, stopper you, know with. HELP i think with The,
raiders and we've talked about, this you can probably Use
Carlton davis because they don't have the wide receiver depth right.
Now you, know when you play The steelers and they
HAVE Dk metcalf and why AM i blanking on their
other outside?

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Guy it's Not George pickens.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Anymore, NO i know it's. Not that's WHAT i almost.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Said we're we're both playing king on it at the.
Moment keep. Talking i'll.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
LOOK i almost Said Matthew golden BECAUSE i REMEMBER i
Mocked Matthew golden to, them and that would have been
a sneaky fun pick if they'd done.

Speaker 6 (38:09):
It.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah so the reason why we can't think of it
is because it's, like it's not.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Great they don't really have. Anybody, YEAH i thought they
had another.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Guy all, Right Robert WOODS i, Mean i'm A Roman wilson,
guy but he's more of a.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Whoever whoever they face that has a good tight end
and two outside, guys, Right like then maybe It's Alex.
AUSTIN i still don't Hate Carlton davison in that. Role you,
know has anybody thrown out The Carlton davis that keep
to leap comp? Yet or AM i the first ye to?

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Do AND i do agree with, that but like if
they if you play a team AND i know it's
not every team that's built this, way and and Justin
jefferson wasn't practicing today but or, Yesterday but like the
WAY i think about thought about it with This vikings,
Matchup like if you're playing The vikings in a regular
season game and their offense was fully, healthy you Have

(38:54):
jefferson And, addison, Right so like you're not going to
put That dollas Or davis On. Hockinson but how many
of those teams are they going to? FACE i mean
in the, division you at least Have, miami, right you.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Know miami is Different. Miami you can Use Marcus jones
on the. Outside, yeah that's, Fair so that frees Up
Carlton davis that's.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
FAIR i, yeah it's JUST i guess it's more like
it's two. Full it's a blind spot to, ME i
think in terms of how this scheme handles tight ends in,
general because we were so accustomed to how they did
it Under belichick THAT i still don't one hundred percent
have a great feel for what they want to. Do you, know, practices,

(39:36):
practice like they're running their base coverages and things like.
That they're not going to like game PLAN. Tj hockinson
for a joint. Practice so that's one.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Thing so just real quick to go through. It Like,
raiders No, dolphins No, steelers No. Panthers, no they don't
have like they don't have in, McMillan even we don't
know what he's going to. Be The bills don't have
to elite outside. Guys they do have a good tight
BUT i think you Can Carl davis on tight. End There,
saints No, titans No, brown's No, falcons probably. Not who's

(40:08):
their guy Opposite london at this.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Point, Oh Darnell. Mooney he's a good, player.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah but he you can Put Marcus jones On Darnell. Mooney,
Yeah like just for the, Record So, tampa Although. Tampa
Who's Tampas titan is still, Uh Who's Tampas?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Titan?

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Oh oh, man we're really quizzing ourselves right now on THE.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I, MEAN i know most of. THESE i feel good about.
It most of THESE i have off the. Time it's
THE nfc teams that tripped me. Up So tampa has
the two great outside, guys but they're starting Tight, okay
It's Kate. AUGHTON i don't know WHY i Thought Kate
aughton was like older than. That Kate hughton's only twenty,
six WHILE i thought he'd been there for a few
years When brady got. THERE i guess not like you're
not worried About Kate aughton like you're worried about Brock.

(40:49):
Bauers so that's one where they have the two outside,
guys but you're not worried about what's going on at tight.
End The jets know The. Bengals maybe if everybody's healthy
at that, point because you're gonna Have obviously there are
two big guys on the, Outside yoshavas and the, slot
and They're gasiki's been good for this, Solved so, Okay

(41:11):
november twenty, third you got to come up with a
plan By thanksgiving, basically and Then Giants. Bills The ravens
would be another, one and then The jets and The.
Dolphins so you have two games where this kind of
layout might actually be a problem three if you want
to count The bucks if you're a big fan Of Kate.
Otten none of those games are Till, november so it

(41:34):
is something to figure, out like in the short, term,
Though i'm Not i'm not against putting carl And i'm
sure we missed one of people yells yell at us
in the, comments but there's clearly not that, MANY i
think for a good amount of the. Season if you're
worried about facing an elite tight, end you can Move
Carlton davis inside or not, inside but against the tight,
end and some of those tight ends line up on the.
Boundary and, yeah when you get To november twenty third

(41:56):
and you're playing The, Bengals i'm sure we'll talk a
lot about it on that. Show hopefully by that, point
Either Kyle duggar's figured out the defense Or Craig woodson
has shown you some more chops in coverage or. Whatever right,
Something it's a long. Season things. Happen just to put a.
Ball on the, conversation, though what do you think ultimately
happens With Kyle.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Dugger, YEAH i don't.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Know it's it's an expensive, backup, RIGHT i, mean if
that's the role for, him, yeah but it.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Is but they there's not this massive crunch for roster,
Spots like he still is probably one of the fifty
three best players on the, team and they have the cap.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Space SO i.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Think the biggest Thing they're not a team that's prohibited
from keeping expensive.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Backup SO i think that the thing THAT i see
With Kyle duggart that first of, all just off off
the top Of Kyle, dugger, Like i'm A Kyle dugger.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
GUY i kind of have been an apologiest for him
over the last couple of.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Years he's had highs and high highs and low lows at.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Times you, know he does give up plays and, coverage
but when.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
He's at his, best he's makes a handful of just,
dynamic splast plays on the, ball and that those can
be really. Valuable you, KNOW i will always go back
to him jumping that screen against The raiders and just
walking into the end, Zone like those types of plays
that he would make or were rare Plays but the
thing With Kyle, dugger in my, mind is a combination

(43:20):
of is his athleticism sapped by that injury last year
and he's not all the way back because this was
an explosive, Athlete like he was a great combine tester coming.
Out he was an explosive athlete for the first couple
of years of his career until last year when he was,
hurt AND i thought he was gonna come back and
be the guy that we saw two years, ago, hopefully

(43:42):
and he just.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Hasn't he doesn't move as well right? Now? Now is
that also like long witted, answer but, like is that also? Mental?

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Right is it also that he's not protesting the game
quick enough because of this this scheme change and the
difference in the, Defense like that's also possible, Too SO
i just, wonder you, know you brought Up Anthony. JENNINGS
i feel a similar way About Jelanni, Tovai like Is kyle?
Hurt that's IT'S i, know BUT i But i'm also
just thinking about, like, like is it is A Jelawnie

(44:13):
devis style.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
LINEBACKER i get what you're, Saying, okay a fit in this?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Defense like does that does do they have a role
for that kind of player in this defense.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
As a, backup, probably but it's not a significant.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
ROLE i don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
WHERE i don't know If Kyle dugger is a schematic
fit in the defense that they want to. Run and
maybe that's not a this year thing because you can't
turn over the entire roster in one offseason and you're
gonna have guys that are going to be holdovers from
a different.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Scheme but it just long.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
TERM i look At Kyle dugger and, say maybe this
just isn't it's not the right defense for.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Him, YEAH i get trust did roster turnover things? Big
i've been playing madd and it's hard to get the
whole roster turned oversquising. ON i Have madden codes by
the way On, twitter if you want to go check that.
Out uh real, Quick, Evan i'll you submit to win
A madden. Code, okay your Favorite and a lot of
people have not read the directions Because i've gotten quite
a few answers that say The Malcolm butler interception or

(45:10):
The James white. Touchdown but if you read the, DIRECTIONS
i asked for people's Favorite patriots regular season. MEMORY i
almost did regular season touchdown AND i THOUGHT i thought
too many people would just Say Campbell. TOMPKINS i wanted
the wider, gap And i've gotten some good. Ones it's
gonna be a tough. Choice i'm going to decide tomorrow

(45:31):
because they haven't actually sent. Me they'd send you the
codes like twenty four hours. Later but favorite regular Season patriots,
MEMORY i have. MINE i have. TWO i, like one's
my personal favorite and ONE i just think was like
my favorite.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Game, okay SO i have.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Two, okay naturally that's how this show would.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Go AND i have a difficult time, deciding okay between
these two BECAUSE i think both of.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Them i'm trying To i'm.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Not asking you for the best, game like your personal.
Favorite there's pert. Like So i'll give you one for
me is the fifty nine to nothing snow game against The,
titans because that's a whole. Game that's not A I
i'll count as a. Moment it's kind of Wide i'll
count as a. Moment that's. Fair the REASON i like
that game IS i don't remember, why but my parents

(46:17):
and my brother had something like they were. OUT i
used to love it when it, SNOWED i like had
the house to. Myself it was a snowy day AND
i just sat down and watched The patriots go belt
to ask like that was just a that WAS i
just had so much fun watching that. Game that's always
a fund. Memory and then the the the twenty four
point comeback against The, BRONCOS i think was just like,

(46:38):
Exhilarating like.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
That was just. ELECTRIC i was at.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
That you were you were at every game THAT i
WISH i was.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
AT i was at that game sitting on the fifty yard.
Line thank you to my.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Uncle one other, one, TOO i gotta give you Is
David patten's.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Cycle, okay SO i have two that stand out for.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Me maybe these an't just because of how iconic they
are On patriots.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Is. Yeah the first one Is Randy moss breaking the
record With Tom.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Brady and that has been a popular. ANSWER i, mean
that's that's gotta be near the. TIME i, mean SO
i probably wouldn't have been able to do this prompt
if they win That Super, bowl because that would across
the board be the. Answer the only reason that's not
the greatest regular season moment In patriots history is because
of what comes after.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
It breaking the records simultaneously on one throw and having
it be a Vintage, moss you, know Just Tyreek kill
putting up the peace sign like that is.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
And let's not forget number. One not only to break
both their, records it essentially locked up that game to go.
Sixteen and, yeah and they tried the same play the snap.
BEFORE i Think brady overthrew them right or something like
they missed the times didn't stop, it they missed. It
they go back to the huddle AND i think it was,
LIKE i forget the, story but Like moss says To

(47:55):
brady or someone's, like do it, Again let's do it,
again and then they run it back because they wanted that.
Moment they wanted it to look like. That what's your other?

Speaker 3 (48:01):
One so my other, ONE i think is that's the
biggest moment THAT i can think.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Of but this ONE i think is your personal.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
Favorite, though uh THIS i don't know if it's my personal, favorite,
okay but this this, ONE i would, say The moss
one is probably my personal. Favorite, Okay but this ONE
i think is probably maybe the most, important and that
Is Troy brown's walk off touchdown In.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Miami you know nobody, ELSE i don't, Think and, Look
i've been on the. Show i've kind of been looking
at them While i'm on the. SHOW i just tweeted
this out BEFORE i drove down. HERE i don't Think
i've seen a single person say, That so If i'm.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Not picking on, anybody we are both young when that.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Happened, yeah that might be the age demographic of our.
Audience Troy brown's walk off touchdown Against, miami which by the,
way is an extremely Underrated Tom brady throw like, That, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
That's a heck of a.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Throw and they hadn't won In miami And, eon and
it was a moment where that that team clearly stated
that they were a different, team, RIGHT i think they
were no longer gonna go down To miami and get
their butts. Kicked that was back WHEN i think The
dolphins the baseball diamonds like on the field and Try

(49:18):
brown's running through, it belichick headset thrown up in the
air like on the sideline like that was at the
at the. Time that Was, HONESTLY i know this is
kind of, sad but like that was one of the
bigger wins In patriots history at the time.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Because they couldn't win The MIAMI i, mean they don't
win The. Miami, yeah as.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Terms of regular like obviously they, won you, know an
eighty five against The dolphins THE Afc championship. Game you,
know that's a huge one before, that BUT i would
say that's one of the biggest regular season wins In
patriots history because it's kind of blouses after, That like they're.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Just dominant for twenty years from that.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Point that was before we expected them to win that
game like. That that's back when it was so. SURPRISED
i just pulled it up some wild. Ones the first
ONE i pulled up The Marcus jones walk off punt
return against The.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Jets, no that was.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Fun that was.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Fun that Was.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Ellis one hundred and eight yard kick return, touchdown a
sneaky good. One the Drawn harmon pick on the goal
line Against. Pittsburgh, yep The Jesse james caught.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
It, Game yeah he got. It, yep.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yep twenty four Nothing, broncos The, brady The moss is?
There how About moss going up over the three. Defenders
that one's. There, yeah but fumble has been a popular.
Answer dan connolly kick return is a good one, Anyway
those are up. There. Yeah so like if you're Saying
Malcolm Butler's Super bowl, Interception, like you didn't read the,

(50:40):
directions so just read the. Directions it's not that hard
back joint practices anything. ELSE i think we covered everything
from the defense, there, right or DID.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
I guess the other one THAT i would just say,
defensively you? Know, YEAH i think that it kind of
goes hand in hand with the tight end take is
that nickel?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Corner and maybe this.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Is just reasons he, biased but they've talked so much about,
everybody and the organization has talked so much about the big,
nickel right and wanting.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
To have a guy that has some. Side isn't That?
Austin is It? Austin?

Speaker 3 (51:18):
PROBABLY i, mean at this point With marcel's, dial you,
know out for the, year it's really, no there's not
a ton of. Competition BUT i just, wonder you, know
If Marcus jones is their type of slot corner And
Mark jones is gonna be on the, team, Right and
don't get me, wrong he's gonna be a primary punt.
Returner he's gonna play a corner slot corner a, lot
and probably in certain matchups more than. Others BUT i

(51:40):
still think he's gonna be on the field a. LOT
i just wonder, if, like maybe there's a world where It's,
Gonzales davis And austin and those are your three guys
for all the reasons that we talked about with the
tight end, stuff you, know it's kind of all in
the same bucket for me in terms of just getting you,
know the type of body types that they really would,

(52:02):
prefer BECAUSE i don't, Know LIKE i, said maybe it's
just recency bias And Marcus jones had a tough day
today and that's just you know where it. Is but,
OVERALL i just wonder about that with them defensively because
there was just ALL jj McCarthy was doing. Today alps
was just putting the ball in a place That Marcus
jones simply just could not get to, Right and that's

(52:24):
JUST i wonder how much they're going to live with.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
THAT i think some of that's matchup pace. Too we've
talked about, this like when you play The, dolphins you're
probably gonna use More Marcus, jones when you play The,
bengals you're probably. Not, LIKE i think he's kind of
a matchup Play he's a good matchup, player BUT i
think he's kind of a matchup player all, right you
have to do this. Now for, me it was usually
the other way. Around, yes how did the kickers?

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Look so they didn't do a ton of killing, today,
okay WHICH i, thought WHICH i thought was. WEIRD i
thought they were going to do more special. Teams actually
did punt, today like live, punt which was. INTERESTING i
thought The patriots actually had a couple of good, returns
and Then gibson had a nice kickoff. Return so they
did a lot of live punt and live kickoff where

(53:06):
they were like actually punting and kicking the ball at now.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
The kickoff involves the kickers like. That Jeremy springer told
us last week that's a part of.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
It, yes, YEAH i would say though Yesterday borgalas handled
all of the field goals and they did kick six
field goals and he was five for six and they
gave him multi, Borgals so.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Take that for what it's. Worth that was, yeah that
that's how that went.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Yesterday and then today the special teams periods which they
mixed in to give you, know the starters breathers in,
between you, know eleven on eleven's they the special teams,
periods we were punt and kickoff return instead of field.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Goals so there you go real quick. Here before we
we're gonna go to the, Phones we're gonna go to the.
EMAILS i see a bunch of guys lined up eight
five to, Five pats five hundred or podcast At patriots dot.
Com we should touch on it because we haven't done
a show since the. Game it feels like it was
three weeks ago at this, point but they did play
a preseason game since our last. Show just any big

(54:06):
picture thoughts coming away from that game that you want
to get out?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
There big picture thoughts do? You just starting with the.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
OFFENSE i think we all had the same takeaway from that,
game which was that the pass offense with the starters wasn't.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Great you, know it wasn't exactly what you were hoping to.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
SEE i, Thought Drake, may you, know we haven't really
talked about the strip.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Sack you.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
KNOW i Asked Ashton grant about the read on the strip.
Sack he told me That Drake may's eyes were in
the right. Place SO i Guess i'll Take Ashton grant
as a coach on AN nfl, team So i'm going
to take his word for. It but the WAY i
saw it on the strip, sack AND i know everybody
sort of makes, THAT i, guess you, know just everybody

(54:49):
makes a lot out to do with the decision to
try to throw the ball while he was getting dragged
to the, ground which immediately was not a great, decision, Right,
LIKE i totally get. That but the WAY i look
at it is, like could he have avoided it all? Together, Right,
like is there a way you, know feasibly That like
we don't even get to that, point, Right. Yeah AND
i just look at that play and the commanders like

(55:12):
spin the coverage post snap, right they SHOW i want to,
say they showed one high and then they drop out
into too high coverage and he's got slant flat to his,
Left Treyvon henderson running releasing into the, flat AND i
think it Was Kishon boody on the. Slant you don't
want to throw slant fat into cover. Too it's just

(55:33):
not a Good it's not a good concept to throw
against that coverage because the the squatting corner on the
outside is going to pass the slant off to the
inside hook and then he's gonna take the flat Right
like they have two defenders on two receivers over, There
so you. Don't it's not a great concept to work
against too high coverage for that. REASON i, REMEMBER i

(55:56):
think it Was games With names With, edelman Like Ernie
adams went on a one time and they were talking
about Facing Peyton, manning and he said that they used
to run a lot of quarters Against Peyton manning because
All Peyton manning wanted to do his throw slants to
Like Dallas clark And stokely and those guys, right so
they would play too high and they would take away
those slant windows with those those inside. Zones And drake

(56:19):
sees that, rotation and he holds the ball because he
knows he can't throw the ball into the flat against
the squatting corner because it's going to be a pick.
Six and he can't throw the slant because there's a
linebacker sitting right in the slant. Window so long when
it answered to, say like the backside of the concept
was a vertical clear out and Then Pop douglas probably

(56:40):
on an, option had like a little stick or a
little out, route which is a much better concept to
work against that. Coverage SO i looked at it WHEN
i watched the film and, said is it too much
to ask for him to see that rotation in his
drop and start working the other side of the, field.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
And maybe it is Like grant said that it was.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Right he said that that wasn't the problem on the,
play And i'll take his word for. It BUT i
just knowing WHAT i know About josh mcdaniels's offense and
how pre snap and the reads and like the coverage,
indicator like all that stuff that McDaniels bakes into the,
OFFENSE i just.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Wonder if, YOU.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I hate to Say, brady but LIKE i just wonder
if like that was supposed to be the situation there
and he got kind of frozen in time because they
rotated the coverage and he wasn't he didn't get the
look that he thought he was getting pre. Snap SO
i look at that type of, stuff and you, KNOW
i look at the pass protection obviously that in the
same way as everybody. Else AND i look at the

(57:47):
practice that we saw today with The vikings better. PRACTICE i,
thought from a reads and mental standpoint From drake may
than maybe that those fourteen preseason snaps. Were but in,
general LIKE i still have concerns about receiver, separation pass,
protection and overall passing game, execution like could they be

(58:07):
good enough in that?

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Area so you broke that down pretty. Well i'll just
say My i'll give you a more niche takeaway from the,
game and like that play whatever it is can't, happen
whether it's those guys getting, beat whether it's It's Cambellen
wilson getting beat on the. Twist may like even if
he can't go, backside still taking the sack instead of
trying to throw the ball away right or, right something like.

(58:30):
That my other sneaky big. TAKEAWAY i mean some of
The Trayvon henderson looked, great, right that's one of. Them
Kott williams looked really. Good we kind of talked about.
That Kiris, TONGA i want to ask you about What
Chairo's tonga did actually In, minnesota because, he you, know
pound for pound compared to what the expectations were coming
in As Kiros tonga had the best camp of anybody
on The.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Patriots he's up.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
There his ability to to Look he's Not Aaron, donald
but his ability to be a factor on the pass
rush is important because of concerns about their ability to
stop the. Run he's a primary run, player but when
you get into tweet er downs second and, five third and, Two,
right can he still be out there or not be

(59:11):
a liability if they throw the. Ball and he's looked
far from, that far from any potential liability in those
situations so far in. Camp SO i thought that carried
over to the. Game i'm actually really excited About.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Kyrostanga, yeah, no that's a fair thing to be excited.
ABOUT i think what's taken me just really by. SURPRISE
i actually asked him about. IT i think earlier this
week or last. Week all these days are bunning. Together
his pass rush has just been really, Good like it's
been much, better much more effective bull. Rusher he's not
gonna win a lot with like fancy moves and stuff like.

(59:42):
That he's a comrade at you kind of, guy but you,
know the bull rush has been much more. Impactful and
we know on first, down like if you can push
that pocket and you can debt the interior of the
pocket and not give the quarterback that room to step
up into the, pocket like that's. Big that can be really.
Impactful even if he's not technically like you, know glogging

(01:00:03):
quarterback hits or sacks or whatever the case may. Be
if he's just in the quarterback's lap a lot like
that can be really. Impactful and he talked a little
bit about sort of his maturation as a pass rusher
and how he's, improved and like he would, said he
was so focused on he knew he was a big,
dude so he just wanted to go plow straight through
guy right the bull, rush and so he would just

(01:00:25):
try to go right at the center of the block
or like right in the middle of his chest and
just push him. Back and then he's, realized, like, oh
IF i actually get on his edge first AND i
get kind of outside of him first and then bull
rush and transition into speed to, power Like i'm he
can't anchor as well as IF i just go try
to go right through. Him so it was like one

(01:00:47):
of those things that he kind of said that he
had like epiphany talking to. SOMEBODY i don't he didn't
necessarily specify, who but he said that he's been like
picking people's brains about pass rush and like somebody said to, Him,
hey like stop trying to go right through three hundred
and fifteen pound three hundred and twenty pound offensive lineman
and try to get out on the guy's. Edge a

(01:01:09):
little bit first and then try to go through him
and all of a, sudden like he comes into camp
and he looks like a pretty good pass.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Rusher so, YEAH i don't know what he said, it
he admitted. It he was, LIKE i don't know what
took so long for me to figure that, out but you,
know You're.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
I'm just glad he figured it. Out anything else from
the game, AGAIN i, know like we usually break the games, down,
Right it was just there's been so much since, THAT
i don't know how much people like and we've both
broken it down. ELSEWHERE i don't know if you have
anything else you wanted to get.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
To, no not so, much BUT i like just in
general from you, know coming off these joint, practices BECAUSE
i think the question For saturday is like how much
are the starters going to?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Play, yeah In saturday's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Game and the difference is is that last week they
only had the one joint, practice so sad the preseason
opener was kind of like a joint, practice you, know
glorified joint. Practice but at the same, TIME i just
come off the field today and got to, think, like
they don't want to Leave minnesota with this like sort
of being the taste in the mouth of the, starters,

(01:02:09):
right was the way that today went because they had
such a better day yesterday and it was kind, of you,
know one of those things like you said at the
beginning of the, show where it was a tale two.
Days SO i have to think That rabel's going to
watch some of this tape from the practice today and,
say we got stuff to work.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
On you, know we have a lot to work.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
On and next week it's going to be the last
couple of days The patriots On patriots training camp FOR
us and then The giants preseason game and then that's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
It It's, vegas.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Right SO i do wonder if they sorted to have
the same split as last, week where it's a driver
to you, know if a first, drive If drake may
marches them right down the field on the opening drive
of the, game then you pull the starters if it
goes like it did last, week and then you give
them a second. Series BUT i do think there might
be some value in having some of those guys play

(01:02:58):
On saturday after or the way that today.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Went what's the biggest thing you're looking for On?

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
SATURDAY i was that's a.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Good, question BECAUSE i don't know what like the plan
is For minnesota to like with their, starters if anybody's gonna,
play and all that kind of. Stuff BUT i would,
say like receiver. SEPARATION i was SO i came out
out of yesterday's practice being so optimistic about how open
some of the guys got down the field For Drake,
may and THEN i just didn't really see that out

(01:03:28):
there today and that was kind of a. Bummer so
like if they, today you, know yesterday they had guys,
open and then On saturday they can get guys open
for a couple of. Drives like maybe today was just
a you, Know minnesota is a good, team, right and
they had a better. Day but that was the biggest
THING i would say THAT i would look, for, is you,
Know Ken drake may find some completions down the field

(01:03:50):
like he did in practice.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Yesterday, Yeah i'm Gonna i'm just gonna, say however much
the starters do, play that continuation Of, May wilson And
campbell picking up some of the more complex stuff The
vikings defense does up. Front, now who knows how much
you're gonna play If wilson plays at, all you, know
that's a question as. Well but that's kind of the
big question for me going in.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Saturday all, Right i'm sure we'll get to more game
previews with these. Questions we've got a whole bunch of emails,
too but we'll start with. It DID i have to do?
Reads by the, way nobody gave me, READS i have
to do.

Speaker 5 (01:04:20):
Reads.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Probably, yeah if you want to run in the, READS
i can do the recess we're usually doing when we
do the. Transition but we'll take one phone call. First
we'll get to. That patty and a go, on get a, Started, Patty,
patty it's, up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Got.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
PATTY i will Put patty on. Hold, patty get back
to your, phone and we'll try you. Again how About
nate And? Connecticut, Nate, hey.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Guys all you guys Doing hey. Good so my question
for you guys is about Them. Chisholm, obviously he had
a really good preseason debut last, game and all the,
players Including Josh, Dobbs Mike, rabol they've been pretty they've
been praising him for how well he's. Done do you

(01:05:10):
think he is a? LOCK i personally think he. Is you,
know just to see his name on the fifty three
cut lists would be a really big. Disappointment He he's
shown some really big flashes and proved. POTENTIAL i just
don't see us cutting. HIM i, REALLY i really think
we're gonna keep, him AND i really think he's gonna

(01:05:31):
do well in the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
League thanks, Guys Evan chishom roster.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Luck i'm not ready to say that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
YET i think That, Diggs, Douglas Holland's, Booty Kyle williams
are all going to be, here and that that's five
guys THAT i just listed that are all going to be.
Here and until we have a better feel for how
many receivers and like how what their you, know minimums

(01:06:01):
are at each position Under, rabel it's kind of hard
to say that he's a lock because are they do?
They most teams are probably okay with keeping six if
it's that they're six worth. Keeping but if we're really
talking about, seven like that's that's an abnormal. Number, yeah
so we have to BE i don't know about, lock

(01:06:22):
but he's certainly playing his way onto the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Team he's on pace to be on the. Team LIKE
i think if he has a rough, game rough week next,
week maybe you start talking about practically, again we need
a term for whatever one step below A locke is
because he's, LIKE i think he's going to be on the,
team BUT i don't think He's i'm not writing it
in sharpie. Yet LIKE i think ULTIMATELY i think he makes.

(01:06:46):
Team it's not me saying he's not gonna make a. Team,
ULTIMATELY i think he's going to make the. Team BUT
i do think, again he's not running with the ones as.
MUCH i do think, they you, know maybe want to
see a little more before they get. There AM i?
Reading all these are just highlighted One she had done
this for the, show highlighted one of. Them pick. Too all,

(01:07:06):
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of The New England. Patriots and we're gonna get a
bunch of comments again That i'm better at the reads
than you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
See, yeah well, yeah it's because you're a radio.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Guy we'll get to these other. Ones let's grab the.
Phones david New, Hampshire, David.

Speaker 6 (01:07:52):
Hey, guys that's Going hey. Good first of, all it's
been a. While well then listen all the time, though
but you as a you, know AS i said last,
time which was like years, ago though that you, KNOW
i was asked about Khon booty as a part of
the you Know booty that band. Is that Was i'm.
GLAD i had been happy to see you know him
really perform well so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Far but my.

Speaker 6 (01:08:14):
Question For evan would, be you, know there's been a
lot OF i would mixed reporting on the day. Today you,
know some people saying. HORRENDOUS i just was listening to.
You it doesn't really sound like it was necessarily. Horrendous
my take there was from it was that The vikings
are you, know A Super bowl contending team potentially at

(01:08:35):
the very, least and if they do it'll be because
they were carried by their defense and their skilled, players
Although Justin jefferson obviously wasn't playing. Today so the fact
that The, patriots who we hope him be a playoff,
team you, know bubble, team didn't you, know beat The
vikings both, days isn't the biggest skill to. Me, always
thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Guys Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
David just to be clear, again we were talking about
the two days as a whole, collectively so that's why
maybe some of it sounded a little more positive than
the reporting because we only did the show once a,
week so we wanted to kind of combine. Everything But
evan about today, AGAIN i THINK i asked you the
top of the, show but just to be, clear like
your your assessment of today, Specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
YEAH i THINK.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
I don't want to like get too exaggerated and be, like,
oh it's you, know it was a, disaster it was
a train, wreck you, know and use those types of,
words BECAUSE i don't think it was quite.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
That like we we've seen disaster when.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
The Philadelphia eagles were At Gilied stadium last, year, right
you wouldn't put it in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
The same conversation as That eagles.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
Practice, No AND i was actually talking to somebody about
this after, practice because The eagles practice last year was
not just the fact that The eagles roster was just
better across the board than The. Patriots The patriots looked
like a disorganized. Team it was it was non. Competitive,
Yeah like they literally weren't lining up, correctly they were
false starting left and. Right there was million penalties all

(01:10:01):
over the. Field like they literally could not line, up
snap the ball and get a playoff against The eagles last.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Year that was not.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
This this was two teams that are are buttoned up
in well, coached but just one team had the advantage
over the other. Team so maybe that's, why like my
opinion of it is not quite as like doom and
gloom as some of the other reporting. Is there's no
doubt about it That minnesota won the, day like that's a.
Decision it was a Decisive vikings, Win like there's no

(01:10:31):
doubt about. That but in order to like really be,
realistically because let's face it, out it's LIKE i think
that we're all really excited About rabel and we're all
really excited about where this team is, headed But rome
wasn't built in a, Day like they're not going to
be able to This vikings team won fourteen games last,
year and they're they're not going to all of a
sudden flip a switch where they go from being a

(01:10:53):
four win football team to dominating a fourteen win team
back to back days and joint. Practices it's it's not,
linear like it's not going to be perfect every single,
day AND i think that's sort of what we saw to.
Do so to kind of to the caller's, point, right like,
that that's that's sort of WHAT i was. Expecting LIKE
i did not expect to come here To minnesota and

(01:11:13):
have The patriots win both days of. Practice not THAT
i love the wind practice, thing but, Whatever like it's
what we.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Do SO i wasn't expecting that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
TODAY i considered between yesterday and, today did they do better?
Worse the same as your expectations coming.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
IN i, said they met my.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
EXPECTATIONS i think yesterday was definitely better than WHAT i was. Expecting,
OFFENSIVELY i thought today was sort of WHAT i was
afraid of was going to happen over the course of
the two, days where it was Like drake may was,
fine but they couldn't pass protect and they couldn't get
anybody open, right and that was sort of what my expectation,
was and so that was what today. Was but over

(01:11:53):
the course of the two, DAYS i would say they
met them because they were able to have a nice Day.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
YESTERDAY i still go back to and it goes back
to the commander's, practice like AND i wasn't, There so
this is just me going off reading, which by the,
way like not being there and reading everything On twitter
makes me realize how hard it is to cover these
and LIKE i want to do my best, now not
that you guys aren't doing the best you, can but
LIKE i know how hard it, is and like being
on the other side of, it making sure LIKE i

(01:12:19):
give as many details When i'm down. There it's EVERYTHING
i see about. Today as bad as it, was it
doesn't sound Like Drake may was. Bad you, know there
were limited. Opportunities but AND i go back to the commander's.
Practice AND i said this earlier in the, podcast BUT
i thought the commander's practice as good as it, WAS
i think if you went back on tape and look through,

(01:12:40):
it there'd probably be more to. Nitpick BUT i Think
drake may elevated the situation at. Times and if the
blocking wasn't perfect or receivers weren't perfectly. Open he still
found ways to make it. Work and it sounds like
he maybe did some of that today even when it
wasn't great around, Him and that's the most encouraging thing
to me because he's gonna need to be able to
do that at. Times like we've talked to, out this

(01:13:01):
is not the finished. Roster this is Not Mike rabel's. Vision,
ultimately they're on the way to, it, certainly and they
made significant, strides but it was never going to get
fixed in one. Offseason that was just never. Realistic they've
so far exceeded the roster TURNOVER i was expecting because
in one, year like you were overturned fifty percent of
your roster in one, season that's a. Lot that's an uncharacteristic,

(01:13:23):
amount and they might end up over fifty by the
time we get to week one from week eighteen last.
Year so, like it's encouraging to. Me as rough as today,
was or it was as rough as it sounds. Like,
yea AND i didn't see it that you, know there's
still that, caveat But drake may you know what he
made of it was good and part of. THAT i
think part of that is his. Confidence confidence it's important

(01:13:43):
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(01:14:05):
for your journey available. Now it's all of Entire also
tell you the show was sponsored by The massachusetts two fifty,
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At massachusetts two fifty dot. Org let's. Go let's see
we can Get patty. Again patty you there this?

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
Time i'm here this?

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Time all, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Guys, Hey.

Speaker 5 (01:14:27):
So just a couple things and Then, ALEX i got a.
GRIEVANCE i gotta air out with, you, Buddy, OKAY i.
Love the first thing IS i was at that fifty
nine to nothing. Game it was. AWESOME i left it
halftime because the forecast predicted, rain SO i Bought parkas
with my best, buddy and our arms were frozen from
the elbows up by the time halftime rolled. Around the

(01:14:49):
second thing Is i'll give you my Favorite patriots. Memory,
yeah and it was a GAME i was. At it
was nineteen ninety, six The Hail Mary jacksonville, game not
THE afc championship game that, year but The Hail mary
game was that military's first ever game winning field, goal
AND i was. THERE i was sitting in the end
zone where he kicked, it and it was you, know
it was pretty cool. Experience, So mike grievance with, you

(01:15:11):
and this is off, topic maybe maybe not too off,
topic but remember talking About Stefan diggs coming off THE
acl and you rattled off a couple of different players
that came off came OFF acls and had great, seasons
and nobody's gonna top ap season one in THE mvp
and rushing for two thousand. Yards BUT i can't BELIEVE

(01:15:31):
i listened To Phil. Perry i'll listened to you and
a couple other. Guys nobody brought up twenty FOURTEEN bronc
because he Got he tore THE ceo In december at
twenty thirteen and came. Back dicky played fifteen games but
still threw up like eleven hundred yards and twelve touchdowns
and was a first Team All. Pro and that's. It you,
know it was a little even You, evan come, on,

(01:15:53):
man you're you're both of you. Guys you, guys that's
your that's your. Wheelhouse. Man i'm surprised neither of you
threw that name out. There but that's it a little
light hearted. Grieving but you guys are the. Best i'll
talk to you next.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Week thanks for the, Call. PATTY i remember that as
an ankle. INJURY i think was that the off season
that where was that the playoffs where he hurt his?
ANKLE i just. Played it's an ankle In.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
The ankle injury was twenty. Eleven like he had ankle
in The Super.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Bowl that was one of The pollard. Moments, yeah, YEAH
i don't. KNOW i remember that as an ankle, injury but,
no that was AN acl and he came back that
year twenty, fourteen and he caught eighty two, passes eleven hundred,
yards twelve. Touchdowns it's pretty. Good three touchdowns in the playoffs,
too and he's awesome in That Super bowl, obviously so

(01:16:43):
good call. Out that's Spare. Patty let's get some of
these Emails jeffrey subject line or jeff And canada's subject.
Line concerned for May, oh this is from, yesterday because
that says earlier in the, Show paul Said paul's nine.
Here So i'm not going to make you answer For.
Paul this is connor From Saint. Paul why you should

(01:17:05):
care ABOUT i think these are all From we.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Can give you some new. Ones CAN i say a?

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Practice, yeah go, ahead and THEN i THINK i see
where catch twenty two.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
Starts, Okay so one more thing about today THAT i
think is important to.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Mention we talked about it very very.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
Briefly there's been some like rumblings right about about the
backup quarterback spot In Joshua, dobbs AND i know that
people saw a rough preseason game from, him and then
yesterday was a rough, Practice and, honestly LIKE i feel
comfortable saying it was a bad practice Because abel just
came out in his press conference and just said it

(01:17:42):
how it was About Joshua dobbs yesterday with some of
the interceptions that they were he was throwing The today
was significantly better.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Day From Joshua.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Dobbs, like If Drake may had the day That Josh
dobbs had, today we would be. Flying we would be
flying maybe, right we'd have two days in a, Row Drake,
may you, know really showing well against The vikings, defense we.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Would be really. Thrilled so good bounce back day From Joshua.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Dobbs obviously After chisholm was like a big part of,
that you know in the, Mix Kyle williams in the,
Mix Javon baker in the, Mix Jack westover to end
practice up the seam in the.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Mix so it was a much much better.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Day kind of put some water on that, concern, right
a backup, quarterback SO i KNOW i should mention to
No Ben woolridge for two, Days So Ben.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Woolridge so that doesn't sound like that's not a. Competition
No Ben woolridge.

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
Is And rabel said this, morning you, Know Josh dobbs
is the backup, quarterback you, know is everything is always
subject to change with My, vrabel there is always that.
Caveat but But Josh dobbs is the backup quarterback and
that seems to, be, uh that seems to be pretty
pretty set in.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Stone alexander emails In catch twenty two, Questions i'm sure
evanist mourning the loss of Brock lampy since but since
you guys are a, draft shall storing a name is
a possible replacement for next? Year Max bretison fallback From.
Michigan Max brettison is very good. Fullback let's see If
Jack westover can do it like he's got the profile for.
It AND i asked him what makes a good? Fallback

(01:19:18):
first thing he said was. Fearlessness so that's a box
checked because we'll, to you, know throw his body in
there and getting away met a linebacker in THE a.
Gap so let's let's give West over. Chance two more
questions he asked for, You, evan have you noticed if
McDaniel's and the offensive stuff and the offensive staff have
done anything With drake's? Mechanics and is there's a pop?

(01:19:39):
Up and Is jay Von baker this Year's Taekwon? Thornton
where is what he's showing in practice going to translate.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Two questions With drake's. MECHANICS i haven't seen anything. Different
AND i thought one of the things THAT i liked about.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
The last two days From drake may where it was
his poise in like his, feet we're not getting he
wasn't getting skittish in the, pocket, Right, like he wasn't
having those moments of skittishness in the pocket or happy
feed or anything like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
That with the.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
PRESSURE i, Thought now he's wear the red, jersey so
you know he's not gonna hit get to get. Hit
but STILL i think that was good to. See and
his mechanics look pretty much the. Same like the one
thing with his mechanics THAT i was always, wondering footwork
is not really, mechanics. Right footwork is. Footwork throwing mechanics
is a different. Thing and the one thing THAT i
was kind of wondering With drake may, is you know

(01:20:28):
what they start to work on tightening his throwing, motion
because the longer that your throwing motion.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Is and the longer that you bring your arm back than.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Your throwing, motion there's more room for error in terms
of controlling the football and throwing the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Accurately and SO.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
I was wondering if maybe they would try to get
him to be a little bit quicker and more. Compact
BUT i haven't necessarily noticed, that and you, know the
staff last year kind of thought that was. Overblown is
a conversation Around drake made during the draft process that
they didn't really see eye to eye. With so maybe
that's just sort of like a media driven narrative thing

(01:21:09):
with his throwing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Motion Javon, baker the real dealer is His.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Taekwon So Javon baker more noticeable today in an actual,
team you, know an actual eleven on eleven's working With.
Dobbs but like to, me the push For Javon baker
has been on special. Teams, yeah like him adding special
teams into his repertoire is why we're talking about this right.
Now less so the plays that he's making on the
practice field on. Offense so that's different From. Taekwon like

(01:21:34):
they Tried taekwon at one hundred and eighty five pounds
soaking wet.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Day they Tried taekwon.

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):
On some special teams things on you, know gunner and
all that kind of, stuff and it never really stuck
because he just didn't have the playstrain for. It So Javon,
baker you, know as he tries to work on consistency
and rounding out his game as a receiver if he's
going to make the team as a primary special. Teamer
like that's a different that's a different path to, Me

(01:22:01):
like it's a different conversation Than.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
TAEKWON i agree with you on. That so this email
From john Starts Hey Alex hey Bart So Alex barte
is one, Person Evan lazar is the. Other just be.
Clear could you go into detail on How Will campbell
is losing his. REPS i was under the impression his
anchor was his best, Trait but to my, eyes he's
being pushed back pretty handily on a lot of Reps i've.

(01:22:24):
SEEN i would just, say like getting pushed back and
anchor a different anchor is when you get pushed, back
can you catch? Yourself and Maybe i'm wrong, There, evan but,
yeah that's HOW i think of, it AND i do
like when he does get pushed, back he's been much
better about. It he wasn't as good at the beginning of.
Camp he's been much better Than when he does get pushed,
back he catches himself before it gets too.

Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
Far.

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
YEAH i, actually you, know in the game against The,
COMMANDERS i thought there were one or two reps where
he lost you, know first contact and some guys got
into his chest and were able to get some arm
extension on, him which is something that with the lank
stuff is you, know something THAT i just watched closely for,
right like how often do guys get into his? CHEST

(01:23:06):
i don't THINK i see it the same way. Though in,
GENERAL i think the losses that he's had are on his, edges,
right like either getting blown by on the outside or
those inside moves that we talk so much about With Will.
Campbell today With, GRENARD i thought it was mostly the,
outside you. KNOW i wonder like sometimes And i'd have

(01:23:26):
to be able to see the, film but like when
he has somebody in THE b gap next to him
in the three, Tech, yeah it seems to me like
he looks to kind of like help inside maybe or
is worried about like a pressure coming, right like a
blitz that he's gonna have to block down, to and

(01:23:48):
so like he's a little BIT i do want to say,
slow but just like he's a little hesitant out of his,
set right because he's like sort of like cheating a
little bit to the inside to like help to the three.
Tech and then maybe like because if a linebacker comes
down and, blitzes then he's gonna have to bump over
and take the blitzer and take the nearest threat to the,

(01:24:09):
quarterback and sometimes like when that, happens like he goes
and then set out and like the guy that's rushing
off his edge has already won the first three steps,
Right like he's already buy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Him so there's that sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
Thing SO i think that, maybe you, know mental processing
and stuff like, That but TODAY i would say that
was Grid heard mostly got him on his outside, edge
and it was more Like campbell just was a little
bit slow to the punch on the. Outside and if
you want to be doomsday with, it like if you
want to bring up the, length you, know that was

(01:24:46):
something that people that had concerns About campbell's sticking at
tackle was that was he going to be able to
reach out to those edge rushers without compromising his, leverage
and that then we get into the whole thing of
him giving up the inside and all that. Stuff so
there was one pressure yesterday Where gernard beat him inside

(01:25:06):
and were able actually brought that up in his press,
conference and then there was a couple today WHERE i
thought was more to the. Outside the pass protection is
still work like a work in, progress like it just.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
Is it's still work in.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
PROGRESS i don't know If i'm not at the point
yet WHERE i think that this is like A Will
campbell can't play tackle in the, league but it's something
that is going to have to maybe be. Managed like
we talked about this outs in the, draft like, yeah
chips and like helping him over on that side until
he sort of figures it out like that that's in,

(01:25:40):
Play like if you're gonna expect him AND i Know
Max crosby typically rushes over the right tackle for the most,
part But Max Crosby week.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
One let's say The raiders say we're.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Gonna attack the rookies and we're gonna Put Max crosby
over the left. Side if you're gonna Expect Will campbell
at twenty twenty five times in week one to pass
but Protect Max crosby one on one on an, island
AND i think you're setting him up to. FAIL i
don't think he's he's ready for that quite. Yet so
they're gonna have to get maybe some creative things about.

(01:26:12):
It and in like the one other THING i would
say About Will Will campbell is actually talking TO, uh
to our good FRIEND Uh glenn and there AT Nbc
Sports boston about this and uh or ACTUALLY i think
it Was.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Moose i'm, SORRY i get those two guys.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
CONFUSED i hesitate to say this BECAUSE i don't want
to be taken the wrong, Way but, LIKE i don't
think The patriots are going to be in a position
With Will campbell where they're saying we need to go
draft or trade or acquire a left tackle because he
can't play the, position like just flat out like he
can't do it. Right and so next year we're in

(01:26:51):
the draft or we're in free agency and like they
have to pay a tackle because they just Have there's
there's no you, know wiggle room. There that being, said
if like a year from now or two years from,
now they're in the draft and like A Tristan wharf's
like falls into their lap right in the draft and
they're able to draft a left tackle that has prototypical

(01:27:12):
traits of a left tackle and that Moves Will campbell
inside or Moves Will campbell to the right, side or
like whatever the case may. BE i don't think that
that's like the worst possible outcome that could happen from
that draft. Pick And i'm not saying that that has to.
Happen i'm just, saying, like that's the way the scenario
THAT i, See, LIKE i hear a lot of people

(01:27:32):
that just think that he's automatically going to have to move.
INSIDE i don't think that they're going to be so
desperate to move him inside that it's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
AUTOMATIC i don't think that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
If we get to the draft next year and there's
a good chance that the best player on the board
is a left, tackle like clearly the best player on
the board's. Conversation it's a conversation like and as it.
Should and maybe we have the conversation we decide no
trade out or no draft this guy or. Whatever but,
LIKE i get what you're. Saying speaking of the, Draft

(01:28:03):
mike In pennsylvania asks how we feel about the linebacker,
depth that there's any players in the pipeline that look
promising for the. Future SO i started kind of really digging.
In this week's some some back here And i'm not a.
PRACTICE i got three and aamc you really? TWO i
think a lot of people know Who Harold perkins is
at this. Point he was supposed to be a top ten,
pick got, hurt kind of had a down year when

(01:28:25):
he came. Back he's AT. Lsu his teammate Wit. WEEKS
i don't know if you actually watched WHAT i sent
You evan on Wit, Weeks did you actually watch it
a little?

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Bit that's That's, robert.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
That's robert's, Flint, like, no you don't think?

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
So? OKAY i THINK i think he looks a little
bit more athletic Than.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Robert he's a verable, linebacker like he is a he
is a fit in this. System he's also if you
watch The NETFLIX sec, DOCUMENTARY i think he's got like
the between the ears part of it set sure and
then the other like who is a true. JUNIOR i
don't know if he'll come out or. Not Kyle lewis From.
Pitt do you Remember Servasier dennis a couple of years

(01:29:07):
ago was another pit linebackers on The. Bucks, now, yeah
the name sounds. Familiar so he's in The Servassier dennis
role in the pit. Defense BUT i think he's. Better
and he's like six something on the big board right.
Now that's gonna go way.

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
Up but.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
Might sneaky be a good linebacker class next? Year so,
uh we've Got i'm gonna go through these a little
quicker here BECAUSE i want to get to these calls.
Too nick In boston love listening you. Guys catch twenty
two definitely is the Best patriots. Discussions, however you guys
are gonna look back on Your Will campbell takes over
the summer with. Regret it turns out a guy who's
three thirty runs a four nine with no dimensional. Limitations

(01:29:44):
an excellent college tape would have been a good. Pick
Armond membu lock down The Pro bowl Or Kenny clark
won on one in their first preseason game and is
having a great, camp but you guys don't want him
since he's a right. Tackle where's he? Playing he's playing right? Tackle? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
Uh, Yeah forshan who's playing?

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Last AND i don't really Understand Kenny clark's the defensive.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Tackle so, YEAH i think you may have missed something.
There SO i, MEAN i, mean.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
Maybe it was a Dad Jilliams, rashang you, know another
one of. Theirs He's Kenny clark's a, packer, right, yeah
like my brain.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
Is so he mentions, today you, know Beating Will. CAMPBELL
i don't know that we're going off of one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:19):
Practice, YEAH i, mean, LOOK i said my piece About
Will Campbell i'm not trying to hide or like shy
away from the fact that it hasn't always been great.
NOW I i think it was commendable Of clavon Chase
on to come out and really defend him, yesterday which he.
Did AND i you, KNOW i know it's a teammate

(01:30:40):
and like that might not mean anything to, you But
Clavon chaison basically, SAID i think you guys are all
being way too, harsh you, Know LIKE i think that
he's been way better than what WHAT i keep reading
and seeing out. There not that he's like necessarily reading,
us but they pay, attention they see certain, things and,
uh AND i think that he he kind of came

(01:31:01):
To Will campbell's defense And Jonathan GERNARD i think was
asked about him today after. Practice he spoke with reporters
post practice and he seemed generally. IMPRESSED i, mean obviously
he's not gonna come out and, say, yeah you, KNOW
i torch that. Guy he, stinks, right but he seemed
pretty impressed With campbell as. Well there's no doubt about

(01:31:21):
it that the pass protection stuff is something that we
have to continue to watch With Will, campbell and it
remains a question mark with. HIM i JUST i don't
have the practice, film SO i can't really break it,
down and there wasn't enough reps in the preseason game
to really think about, it you, know really be able

(01:31:43):
to examine. IT i think he's one of those guys
that needs to win with his feet in his, hands
like that has to be the strength of his. Game are,
quick you, know sudden punches with his. Hands you know
that aren't down the middle of the, rusher but you,
know more towards the peck outside peck with the left
hand and firm punch and slide your feet right like

(01:32:06):
that sort of got to Be Will. Campbell AND i
think the concern with, it what we've seen is that
that can be very hit or, miss because if you'd
missed the punch and you're being aggressive like that and
you missed the, punch then you're gonna have those, blowbys
which is what you don't want to. See so for,
him it's just going to be this balancing act of
figuring out how to be consistent within that. Framework AND

(01:32:30):
i think that that's been a challenge so far as
it is for probably a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
Rookies yeah and, again And nick, says keep up the great. Work,
thanks we do appreciate. Listening don't mean to pick on
you like, this but just to be, clear the take
at the time WAS i had my, concerns just LIKE
i had my concerns About Will, campbell AND i had said,
this pick your, poison the guy who maybe doesn't have
the ideal physical, building the guy who's never played the position.
Before Arm On membu's at right tackle with The. Jets

(01:32:54):
if The patriots had needed a right, TACKLE i would
have been fine with Arm On. Membo but we've seen
this team try to move tackles from right to left
the last few years and hasn't gone. WELL i was
kittish about. That i'm fine with that Armand member being
a great right tackle doesn't prove us. Wrong if he
ends up getting moved to left and is, great, yeah
then we have to eat some. Grow BUT i never
had any Doubts Armon member could play right, tackle although

(01:33:16):
some people pointed out in the chatty hasn't been great
against the. Run BUT i never had Anything Armond member
could play right. Tackle that wasn't the. CONVERSATION Uh anthony
asked why Not Carlton davis at the tight end? Position
we talked about. THAT a couple of people sending in
their Favorite patriots. Moments Wes welker ninety nine yards Against
miami On Monday night. Football that's a good. One oh

(01:33:38):
Seven patriots beat The. Ravens great, game subject line catch twenty. Two,
yeah people are sending in now. Moments Uh gronk Removing
Sergio brown from the. Club that's a good. One, Ye
josh And turner. Falls you guys are the best out
there right. Now real. Stuff, Appreciate oh you, do thank.
You this is gonna be another guy that's, LIKE i
love the show and then comes at. Us SO i have,

(01:33:59):
to ye ununfortionunately kind of go after p, one which Again,
NICK i never like to. DO i. APOLOGIZE i just
want to clarify.

Speaker 6 (01:34:05):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
No josh has a question if The pats only keep
three running backs and two tight ends as seven receivers of.
POSSIBILITY a lot Of pats beat guys are saying. SEVEN
i honestly hope they do keep. Seven If Chisman baker
proved they're worth. Keeping we kind of talked about, this
so just real, QUICK i think they can keep three
tight ends and still keep seven. Receivers if if the
third is West over and he's also your. FULLBACK i

(01:34:27):
think he can be three running, backs three tight, ends seven.
RECEIVERS i think that's in.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
Play, YEAH i think that makes.

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
SENSE i mean three running backs now With larison out
of the, mix makes it makes the most sense to.
ME i don't know if any of these on the
other running, backs ALTHOUGH i Will Shane, watts Like, loki
had had a day.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
YESTERDAY i heard he got blown up today, though.

Speaker 3 (01:34:47):
Yeah today today it was the other. Way but it
wasn't really. Him it was more of the blocking in
front of. Him but there was one player in particular
that it was just a bad rep and like three
vikings just came in on he, did you, know unblocked
on Poor Shane watts and just put, him you, know
into the.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
Ground but YESTERDAY i thought that he had showed some juice.

Speaker 3 (01:35:08):
And like a little bit of, wiggle like almost a
little bit Of Land, larrison LIKE i can see like
sort of similar.

Speaker 1 (01:35:13):
Players it's funny because they go From Land larrison was
THE fcs leader in all purpose, yards, right, yeah and
so they lose, him all, right who's THE d two
leader in all purpose? Yards And watch was like. THIRD
i think but they did, similar very similar college. Profile riley, Asks, hey,
fellas do you think it's possible to See Baker baker

(01:35:35):
Overtake hollins's spot in the wide receiver room. Order he's
strung some nice days weeks, together but of course we
have to see what the. ONES i think the two things.
Won there's other players in the way. THERE i Think
booty And Kyle williams are in that conversation as. Well and,
again as you said, Earlier Evan Javon baker's pushed to the,
roster it's not really about what he's doing a wide,

(01:35:56):
Receiver like his potential to develop as a wide receiver's
part of, it, Right but he's making the team as a.
Gunner like if he wasn't doing what he's doing on special,
teams you, know maybe we're talking about him for the practice.
SQUAD i don't think we are like really disgusting him
as this truly rosterble player if he wasn't making the
special teams plays he.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
Is, YEAH i, understand AND i understand the take on,
Maccollins like what is mccollins is a journeyman receiver that
has really at his best is like a six hundred
yard you know type of, guy and SO i get
wanting to give reps to younger guys with the higher.

(01:36:37):
Upside LIKE i totally understand the take from a lot of.
People that being, said all we can, Do alex is
tell people what is happening at these practices and who
are getting the reps with the meetingful, reps uh with
with the ones and all that good. Stuff and like
they Mac collins is not McColl's gonna, Play like mc
collins is gonna have a, role mcallis is gonna. Play

(01:37:00):
Mac collins is gonna be involved in this. OFFENSE i
actually think that he's had some, moments especially in these joint,
practices where he's looked like one of their more consistent
threats as a.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
Receiver, TODAY i thought he caught.

Speaker 3 (01:37:18):
A, little you, know whole shot From Joshua dobbs or
ref said it was out of, bounds but all of
us kind of thought it was, inbounds but you, know
we're not, ref so what do we? Know and you,
know then yesterday he got behind the defense on that
busted coverage and had that long.

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
Touchdown Like Matt.

Speaker 3 (01:37:34):
Collins has actually made some plays over the last couple of,
days and he made a lot of plays against The
commanders two in that joint practice last.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
Week SO i don't THINK.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
Matc collins is going, anywhere AND i think Mac collins
is gonna have a role on this football. Team so
is there a world where we get to Like, Halloween
thanksgiving And Kyle williams is all of a sudden like
the TOP x. Receiver, yeah LIKE i think that's in.
Play but other than, that, like other Than Kyle, williams
behind the, scenes continuing to grow and continue continuing to,

(01:38:04):
stack you, know positive practices behind the, SCENES i Think
Matt collins is going to play a.

Speaker 1 (01:38:09):
Lot so then we have From chris, Mentions, well the
subject line IS i just read a score AND i
thought it was going to be his favorite regular season.
Moment but he says twenty twenty FIVE Afc Wild card,
Game pat's thirty Four steelers. Ten and he, says we're
going to surprise some people this. YEAR i, mean they

(01:38:31):
beat The steelers thirty four to ten in the wild card.
Round they probably had a pretty good season regardless of
what happens after that twenty four point winning the. Playoffs
so you just sign me up for THAT i had
no problem with. That he also. Asks he, says it's
exciting that there's so much more competition for roster spots this.
Year all, right list of? Players do they make the
team or?

Speaker 6 (01:38:50):
Not?

Speaker 1 (01:38:50):
Ready, Yep i'm. Ready Kendrick, BOURNE i are. INTERESTING i
don't you. Know this kills me because you know HOW
i feel About Kendrick. Porne now he doesn't look like
he's making the tea and he's. HURT i get, that
but like you can't make the club from the. Top
guys are passing. Him Kendrick, bourne to, me is one
of the greater wasted potentials of the Modern patriots. Era

(01:39:14):
YOU i mean he had that great year in twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
One i'm, SORRY i don't. Mean it's not About Kendrick.
BOURNE i just LOVE i love the commitment to the.
TAKE i love.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
IT i mean will we will never? Know this is my.
Point he had a great year twenty. One he gets
thrown in the doghouse and The Matt patricia year over
stuff he probably should have gotten thrown in the doghouse,
for and that whole year was a. Mess comes back
in twenty, three starts making. Plays he was good before
he got. Hurt remember, that like every time they targeted,

(01:39:46):
him it was a big. Game he was. Good twenty
Three bill, O'Brien Bill, obrien twenty, three gets, hurt comes
back last, year he's coming off the torn acl so
he has that recovery. Year and, Look i'll admit he's,
thirty he's had a knee. Injury it's been it's been
four years since that twenty twenty one. Season if they
don't just for whatever reason you have a grudge against

(01:40:09):
him in twenty two and he's actually a part of
that team now you still have all the stuff With
Mac jones and. Everything i'm not saying it would have
been an eighteen hundred yard. Receiver he could have had
a solid career. Here he AND i think he still
has like the most catches in the most receiving yards
of any wide receiver Post, Brady like he's been their
best receiver Post, brady WHICH i know it's not a high,

(01:40:31):
barticlear BUT i remember doing like when we did The
All Sports up. TEAM i think he's fifth since two
thousand and nine on the team in receiving yards or
catches or something like, that which again maybe is more
about the players they've had than. Him he could have
had a good career Here and CAN i.

Speaker 3 (01:40:50):
Say one thing About Kendrick? Borne will take go.

Speaker 2 (01:40:52):
Ahead so.

Speaker 3 (01:40:54):
My take On Kendrick bourne is that we both feel
the same way About Kendrick. Porn maybe he was a
little stronger than, me.

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
BUT, I i, mean you want to talk about real
estate on the, ISLAND i have a little more than
you And Kendrick.

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
Bourneland, Yeah Kendrick bourne is AN nfl, receiver right like,
THAT i feel comfortable saying that he's AN nfl wide.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Receiver he's a professional, player you, know as a pro.

Speaker 3 (01:41:12):
Receiver so MY ir take is just, LIKE i don't
know if there there's playing time for him right now
Because diggs Pop holland's booty and then you're gonna want
to try to Get Kyle williams feet way a little bit,
Too so there's probably not playing time for him right.
Now but if you place him ON ir designated to

(01:41:36):
return on cutdown day and you, know knock on, wood
but Like god, forbid there's a rash of injuries at wide,
receiver then you have a guy on injured reserve that's
AN nfl receiver that can play on.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
Something so you didn't clarify injured reserve designated to. Return,
yeah LIKE i more, sense that makes a lot more.

Speaker 3 (01:41:58):
Sense like you can't eat just be like a stash
player right, now right like, that, YASH i thought you
meant like injur reserve him now in this.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
Season, No, NO i.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
Mean, like let's, try you, know try to stash him on.
INJURINES i don't hate, That, YEAH i.

Speaker 1 (01:42:12):
Don't, so by the, way, look so the reason THAT
i used two thousand and nine is as the cutoff
as me And Matt dollff. Did it was supposed to
be last year for the fifteenth, anniversary and then too
much went, on so instead we did it for the sixteenth,
anniversary which actually was, yesterday was the sixteenth anniversary of
the Sports i'm going on the. Air we did The
patriots All sports up two thousand and nine and. On
so keep in mind this is since two thousand and,
Nine Kendrick bourne's only been here for four of these,

(01:42:34):
years and he's basically only played two and a half
between being in the doghouse in twenty two in THE.
Acl so since two thousand and, nine receptions among wide
receivers isn't. Tight ends wide receivers for The Patriots Julian,
Edelman Wes, Welker Jacoby, Myers Danny Amandola Kendrick bourne five
receiving Yards Julian, Edelman Wes, Welker Jacoby, Myers Danny Amandola

(01:42:56):
Kendrick bourne. FIVE i think he's a little lower in.
Touchdowns he's some Touchdowns Chris hogan And Randy moss jump in,
touchdowns even Though moss played like no games in this,
window Because moss is just, Awesome but like he sneaky
had a better career here than people. Think AND i
think it could have been better if they had managed

(01:43:16):
him right and they. Didn't but that's that's a Whole
Kendrick borne take from something that was supposed to be
kind of rapid fire. Exercise so, yeah let's go, Back Kevin,
BOARD i Are Cole strange.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Off the.

Speaker 1 (01:43:27):
Team Ben brown being the starting left guard today does
not bode well For Cole. Strange i'm with. You, now
maybe maybe you, know former first round. Pick they try
to find a trade, partner BUT i don't think he makes.
Team Kyle dugger on.

Speaker 3 (01:43:42):
The, TEAM i think it's the, contract and you, know
you at least try to play it out and see
if it's you, know they can get him back on the.

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
Track so part of The Kyle dugger conversation is if
you move on from who is the backup strong? Safety,
right and they can keep an expensive back up If
dougger is going to be better than whoever the option,
Is i'd rather Keep dougger for the year even if
it isn't unless it's going to be a major problem
in the locker. Room and there's that, thing, Right but
who would you rather have backing it? Back and, Again Jabrill,
peppers WHO i like does have some injury. History who

(01:44:12):
would you rather have backing Up Dabrill, Peppers Kyle duggar Del.
Pettis so the question.

Speaker 3 (01:44:18):
There, though is if you're backing up at safety AND
i know this is supposed to be wrapping, up and
we stink at that if you're, back if you're backing up,
safety like you also are gonna have to play special.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
Team Can Kyle dugger play special?

Speaker 2 (01:44:28):
Teams honestly you.

Speaker 3 (01:44:29):
Can't but like If Kyle dugger's issues are like, physical
like he's like lost.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
His, step you, know like del pettis just on special.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
Teams i'm not Saying delpez a better football player Than Kyle,
duggar but is there there might be a world where
he's a better special teamer Than.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
Kyle All, RIGHT i still Think tugger's on the. TEAM
i Think tuger's on the. Team vaderian low.

Speaker 3 (01:44:52):
This is an interesting, one probably SOMETHING i could have
brought up. Earlier, again we're not gonna rap it. This
this is SOMETHING i can.

Speaker 1 (01:44:58):
Unpack we got two more calls and there's fifteen minutes.
LEFT i think we can get this all.

Speaker 3 (01:45:02):
In So Vaderian lowe And Marcus bryant were going back
and forth left, right left right over the last couple
of days with the second string. Offense So Trade jacobs
was not getting as many.

Speaker 1 (01:45:14):
Reps AND i don't think that's a. GUY i don't
think it's on the.

Speaker 3 (01:45:17):
Team so we know That Vadarian Low we've done The
Vaderian low swing tackle. Thing Vadarian low's a left, tackle
AND i understand that a lot of people Say Vadarian
low's left, tackle he's not a very good.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
One, okay, whatever take that piece of it out of.

Speaker 3 (01:45:33):
It, Right, like we know That Vaderian low is much
better on the left side than the, Right like the
pressure rate on the right side when he played the right,
side AND i think it was twenty three is like
double the pressure rate he allows in the left.

Speaker 2 (01:45:48):
Side SO.

Speaker 3 (01:45:51):
I guess my point is is, like If Marcus bryant
is good enough to be the top swing, tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
Then Darien lowe on the team.

Speaker 3 (01:46:01):
As like like the backup will left, Tackle LIKE i, guess.

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
Right, right and Then Marcus bryant can just play right
would probably be.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
Right the question is is, LIKE i guess you know
you're looking At Will campbell and left, tackle like and
if you don't feel great About Marcus bryan a rookie
Replacing Will campbell Will campbell gets, hurt then maybe you
think That vederian low has a purpose on the roster
as a pure backup left tackle And Marcus bryant is
more of a right tackle. BACKUP i GUESS i could
see them doing that and keeping four and just having

(01:46:35):
a backup left in a backup right right and not
a true swing. Tackle SO i don't. KNOW i don't
know if we've seen enough About Vaderian low because he's been,
hurt like it's hard to say maybe he's gotten any
better or anything like. That BUT i would Say vaderian
low long way To grandma's. House, THERE i would Say
Vanderon lowe on the.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Team maybe he makes the initial fifty. Three that's a
spot WHERE i wonder if maybe they go on waivers
and try to find. Somebody so maybe he's on initial
fifty three and then they get a waiver claim and
he's the one that's. Off BUT i STILL i still
THINK i HAD tbd tackle on my roster. Projection I'm
I'm i'm sticking with.

Speaker 5 (01:47:12):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:47:12):
Uh and Then Jelinnie, tobai that's so you, hey some
TIME i did. THAT i nailed, it by the, way
so deal with. It, jilanievai same plan As Kendrick, bourne all,
right but if he's, HEALTHY i think he's on.

Speaker 3 (01:47:30):
The team if he's, healthy and there's no ir path for.
Him but WHEN i look at their, defense even like
more so Than, Duggar Avony jennings And Jelani tava are
the two guys THAT i just it's just a they
look like they don't belong in terms of the scheme.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
Fit they just like.

Speaker 1 (01:47:50):
Own so the difference to me is before he got,
hurt TO i was getting run in practice like he
was out there With, SPLAINE i think he's. NOT i
think they do have a role in My it might
not be a significant, role or it might include special,
teams but LIKE i think he's on the.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
Team, YEAH i can see. THAT i JUST i guess
with tav.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
He played that they used to call, IT i think
the fixer or something like. That like he played a
very specific role in The belichick, defense not last year
because Of bentley's, injury but two years ago when he was.
Good he plays such a specific role in the, defense
and that was a role that he was good at
when used. Correctly AND i just don't know if that
role exists. ANYMORE i think what they want to do

(01:48:32):
is like how Does splaine be like a true mic
and then have like a will that flies, around you,
know playing off the. Splane AND i just don't know
if that's To. Vie Maybe devi's the Backup, mike but
we saw now that went last. Year LIKE i feel
Like Jack gibbons is probably a better backup disployne.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
Real quick that those are the players in the email
also MENTIONED i think The brady statue is. AWESOME i
think they did a great. JOB i very much enjoyed.
IT i will, say if you are planning on go seeing,
it try to go see it at. Night it's even
cooler at. Night that was my one big. Takeaway and
it's not too. Small it's wearing shoulder. Pads that's why
it looks like. That look at his head and look
at his bicep like it's it's the shoulder pads make

(01:49:12):
at first, glance the shoulder pads make it look, small
but like he's wearing shoulder. Pads it's a football. Uniform
that's why it looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
That so really quickly on The brady, statue because you
AND i were there for the statue unveiling AND i got.
It we BOTH i don't want to speak for, you
but like we both came away with that like feeling
like we went through like a religious.

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
EXPERIENCE i didn't think it was going to be Like
Dwayne way level, bad BUT i it vastly exceeded my.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
Expectations AND i think that part of it, was you,
know the ceremony was really.

Speaker 1 (01:49:42):
Cool ceremony was.

Speaker 3 (01:49:43):
Great there was tons of people there in terms of,
fans but there was also a lot of really cool
alumni that were there as, Well so that was a
big piece of. IT i don't want to hear like
any and this is not team employee speaking like this
is truly from the, heart LIKE i don't want to
hear any criticism of that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
Statue that statue is. Sick like go.

Speaker 3 (01:50:04):
See it in person and go look at he is
seventeen feet. Tall and the detail that's on the, statue
like the from the cleats in the knee brace and
the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:50:20):
Playbook you know arm.

Speaker 3 (01:50:21):
Pady, black you know the, EyeBlack the helmet.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
That you have to get up close to see, This
like some people mentioned that this is something THAT i
like to do with the. Statue some people mention you
can't really see the jersey numbers because of the way
they carved. It when you go in, person you can see.
It it's very. Clear it maybe doesn't. Photograph it doesn't
come across as detailed in, photographs BUT i think they
didn't make it to be. Photographed they made it to

(01:50:47):
be seen in. PERSON i would rather more effort be
put into what does this look like when you're standing
in front of, it compared to what is it going
to look like in. Pictures the.

Speaker 3 (01:50:57):
POSE i had concerns about the pose because it's not
an Iconic brady, pose but he's so it's so, Huge,
yeah and he's so tall that the fist in the,
air it's it's a very powerful. Pose and what it
does is like he was a larger than life figure

(01:51:17):
IN nfl sports, history and the pose and the height
in the in the just sheer size of the statue
and makes it larger than.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
Life and That's Tom brady like he. Was he is
larger than.

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
Life all, Right let's let's go to these calls real
quick before we wrap it. Up maniche In New York,
city what's going? On niche? THERE i left him on
hold for a. While put him on, Hold try to
get him back if you, can get back to your.
Phone get back to your. Phone we'll take after. This
when we got to go TO i Know eldridge is, there, Right.

(01:51:51):
Eldred we all do nothing From? Eldred all, right say
we'll TRY i get on in a. Second what are
you Looking we already kind of did. It we did
it for the. Offense we didn't do it for the.
Defense what are you looking for from the? Defense saturday In?

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Minnesota, yeah you.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
Know a lot of things that they harped on, defensively
up coming off that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
Game ray bol did was.

Speaker 3 (01:52:13):
Tackling you, know he mentioned tackling like multiple times when
he was talking about the, defense and they don't tackle
to the ground in, practice so it stands to reason
that they're gonna be a little bit sloppy tackling for
the first time in a preseason. Game so that's another
reason WHY i think that maybe some of the defensive
starters will, play is because they're not gonna live tackle

(01:52:33):
to the ground in, camp so like they're gonna have
To they're gonna have to get some tackling, reps you,
know live tackling under their, belt and the only way
to really do that is to have them play in
the game if they're not gonna tackle in. Practice so
that's WHY i wonder if some of those guys are gonna.
Play it was good to See Carlton davis back out.
THERE i don't think we'll see him On. Saturday he

(01:52:54):
might be one of the few guys kind of like
last week where you, know a few veterans here and
there were held out out of the, game but he
practiced both.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
Days he was out there fully.

Speaker 3 (01:53:05):
Participating he had a really funny press conference here yesterday
where like reporters kept on trying to ask him injury
questions about himself in different. Ways he just like kept
on being, Like i'm not going, there you, know like
he just kept on making jokes about how we were
trying to trap him into talking about what's going.

Speaker 2 (01:53:25):
On he did admit that there was something physical.

Speaker 3 (01:53:27):
Going, on but he felt, like you, know if they
were playing an actual game On, sunday he would be out,
there but this time of, year it's just more about managing.
It SO i would harp bono at the defense and
just stick with What rabel's been saying to, us which
is just. Tackling you, know they have to be better at,
tackling and the only way to get better at tackling

(01:53:47):
is to practice.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
Tackling and got to do that in the.

Speaker 1 (01:53:50):
Preseason sous one more time aniche he, there who going,
once going? Twice, Nope eldrid going once going.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
Twice that's, tough, Tough that's.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
Okay, Yeah LIKE i keep leaving people on hold for that,
long but that's just what happens on the. SHOW i
do have one more email Here rio In. TEXAS i
want to talk about the future of The. Patriots three
most important players for this upcoming. Season he Says Drake
may's number, One Will campbell's number. Two says he thinks
most people would. Agree, yeah that's. Fair so he has
an interesting pick for three there for three, Here Kiris.

(01:54:28):
Tonga there's no one else on the team that can
fill his role as a run stuffing nose tackle with
some juice in the pass. Rush if he goes, down
we could see the run defense falter for a second straight.
Year so my mind instantly goes To Christian. Sales but
to his, point, like, look if they Lose Christian, salz
that's a major, blow but you Have Carlton. Davis like
the drop off From Carlton davis From Christian zauce To

(01:54:49):
Carlton davis maybe isn't as big as the drop off
From Kiris tonga To Jeremiah. FARMS i guess it would
be probably the, role, Right SO i still probably Go
gonzales BECAUSE i just think a lockdown corner is that.
Important but SO I i would GO i might even
Go May Gonzalez campbell BECAUSE i Think may can maybe

(01:55:12):
do some things where if the pass protection isn't, perfect
he can still make. Plays whereas if you Lose, GONZALES
i think you're gonna lose the ability to do some
things you want to do, defensively not, everything but some.
Things but they do in theory have a replacement For Christian.
Gonzalez nobody can really replace, him but like there's a
clear next man. Up they don't really have that With,
Tonga SO i don't know THAT i have him at.

(01:55:33):
Three he probably would be higher on my list than
most people would think in terms of the most important,
players especially after the camp he's. Had but it's a
it's a good point By Rio.

Speaker 2 (01:55:41):
Evan so is this a long term look or are
we just talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:55:45):
It so he says for this upcoming.

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
Season so to, me it's Made Campbell Stefon diggs, like
it's a good. ONE i just for twenty twenty, Five
Like Safon diggs is not a long term thing. Necessarily
but it's not just you, know we've done this. Before
it's not just The Stefan diggs. Himself it's also the
hierarchy of the wide receiver room and like how the

(01:56:08):
pressure that that puts on guys like Uh Pop douglas
And Kashawan boody And Kyle, williams like If Sefon diggs
were to get hurt in this serious, time like we're
kind of back where we were last year with this
wide receiver, Room like you have a rookie that you're
hopeful is going to play, well and you have some
other younger players that are, promising but you have no,
Dude like you have no established veteran star. Receiver SO

(01:56:34):
i Think diggs is is hugely. IMPORTANT i know that's
three guys in all on offense and there's no, defense
and that does feel, weird BUT i would Say diggs
has got to be in that.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Game your fantasy. Football, no it's, Fair diggs is up.
THERE I I i just think with With, POP i
have faith In Kyle. Williams we talked about What raebel
said about him, Today LIKE i don't think you're all
the way back to last. YEAR i also just think
there's a chance that Like diggs isn't one hundred percent right.
Away we they there's probably plans in place For diggs

(01:57:07):
to get off to a slow. START i would hope not,
That like not That i'm betting on, it but it's
a guy coming off in acl is thirty one years.
Old LIKE i don't, know do you know What i'm, Saying,
LIKE i don't mean. It i'm not trying to SAY
i don't Think diggs is gonna do. WELL i just
think the contingency plan for Losing diggs is stronger than
the contingency plan for Losing.

Speaker 2 (01:57:27):
GONZALES i, GUESS i just you. THINK i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
Know, YEAH i, guess, WELL i guess With Carlton davis's injury,
history MAYBE i don't.

Speaker 3 (01:57:37):
KNOW i just look at the wide receiver room always
is that, hierarchy that pecking order of like do you
have a coverage dictating? Receiver do you not have a dictating? Receiver,
well the only guy that's gonna that has that potential
to be truly a coverage dictating receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:57:50):
Is So diggs has that, potential but he's thirty, one
he's coming off TORN Acl gonzalz is coming off In
All pro, Season and that's kind of What i'm going off, Of, like, yeah,
YEAH i think There's diggs has the potential to be,
three but there's more variance with. HIM i feel very
comfortable knowing What i'm getting From.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
Christiannzales yeah that's, fair all?

Speaker 1 (01:58:10):
Right that that'll do it for this episode To catch twenty.
Two thanks everybody for tuning. In we will be back next.
Week what day next? Week because They, thursday SO.

Speaker 2 (01:58:21):
I just thought of.

Speaker 3 (01:58:22):
That the game Is, thursday so we can't Do, thursday
so we'll probably end up Doing.

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
Wednesday are they practicing On?

Speaker 3 (01:58:28):
TUESDAY i believe, so but there will you, know there
obviously is no practice On, wednesday the day before the,
game So i'm just On.

Speaker 1 (01:58:36):
Tuesday But i'm also traveling On. WEDNESDAY i forgot it to.

Speaker 2 (01:58:39):
Road so, well we have to figure this.

Speaker 1 (01:58:41):
Out, yeah this is what we do On Patriots beat,
Now like the last five minutes of every show is
planning the next.

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
Show, yeah Maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:58:48):
TUESDAY i actually might not be able to Do wednesday,
Either so.

Speaker 2 (01:58:52):
Oh you, got you? Got you're in the big.

Speaker 1 (01:58:54):
Chair NO i. AM i am calling The old time
baseball game For Steve buckley.

Speaker 2 (01:58:59):
Again, no there you.

Speaker 1 (01:59:00):
GO i know it's a. THING i look forward to,
it but DA's unless we do in the. MORNING i
don't know If i'd be able to do, that so Probably.
Tuesday follow us On, twitter subscribe you know the. Drill
you'll be notified when it's. Happening evan's usually better at
tweeting it out than. Me so until the next one
For alex finding The glass For Evan, Lazara Alex, bart
thanks for tuning in and we will talk to you next. Time. Bye,

(01:59:22):
hey this Is. Deuce thanks for tuning into the. Show
if you really want to help, us make sure you
like us wherever you get your, podcasts Like Apple podcasts Or.
Spotify also make sure you follow us on The New
England patriots YouTube channel to see this show and everything
else that we do here at The. Patriots thanks a.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
LOT m

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