Patriots Catch-22 8/7: Preseason Preview, Players to Watch, Aiyuk Trade Rumors

Tune-in as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth offer their predictions for the Patriots first preseason game against the Carolina Panthers. We discuss players to look out for, and how playing time should be distributed. Plus, we address Brandon Aiyuk trade rumors and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Bar B and Lazar Hello, everybody nailed it, joined us
always by our bar gap.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars when. I don't
know if people can see this on camera when you
watch him on the field, why it's like the same mannerism.
It's gonna be really because for you, I.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Just brought it up because because he's from MoMA.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I just brought up because I heard Nebraska and we
have ten minutes to go. But it's also I don't know,
we had some real stuff to talk about.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I know we did well.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
You got annoyed with the kickers.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
This is not the show I wanted to do today, Alex.
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna come right out and
say it. This was not the show I wanted to
do today. I wanted to do a show where we
were both checking our phones every five minutes. Yep off. Well,
I wanted to do a show that Brandon Nayuku was
a patriot. But I would have said for doing a

(01:01):
show where Brandon Nyuk might be a patriot, could could
still be a patriot. There was still hope in the
air that he could be a Patriot doing a show.
After late last night, Adam Schefter tweets out that the
Patriots have removed themselves from the Brandon Nyuk sweepstakes. It's
not the show I wanted to do. You know, there's

(01:21):
like a common and I don't think that this show
falls under this category because people know where our allegiances are. Yeah,
but there's this common thing that like the media likes
it when the team is bad, right, or they like
it when things like this happen that they can rag
on the team about. That's not this show. This show
would love to have Brandon Nyuk as a New England
Patriot and would love to be talking about the prospects

(01:44):
of Brandon Nyuk being a New England Patriot. And that's
not where we're at. That's how where we're at. And
I want to lay out the facts of the case
here quickly because this is right off the top of
the show. We're getting right into it.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
I think people have it right up to attend with this.
And I'm not saying don't be disappointed. You can be disappointed,
but I'm disappointed. I think people have lost sight of
the bigger picture.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Okay, we'll get to we'll get to that. Taken a
second because I want to see where you're going with that.
But I want to lay out the facts because right now,
understandably so, there are a lot of upset people that
this fell through. I get it. The other night, I
was asleep, I went to bed early. It's training camp.
I was tired. I had like six text messages from
you in the morning when I woke up at six

(02:31):
point thirty telling me that Brandon Nayuk might be a Patriot.
It's actually happening. I tweeted out that the gift from
the office of you know, Michael Scott running around It's okay,
it's happening, right. And the report was it was the
Browns and the Patriots that were at the top of
the list in the pursuit of Brandon Nayuk. And unfortunately,

(02:53):
fact number one to me is that the Patriots and
the Browns were used as leverage. The Patriots and Browns
were leaked that they were had frameworks of deals in
place with the San Francisco forty nine ers to see
if there was anybody else that would throw their hat
in the ring at the last second.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
That.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Frankly, I thought all along that this was coming from
my yuch side in Ayuk's camp, because I don't think
he wants to be a Patriot Ora Brown.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
No.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
He Here's what's crazy, he said two months ago on
Ryan Clark's podcast, if he didn't play for the Niners,
he wanted to play for the commanders of the Steelers.
I still don't know why the commanders weren't all over this.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, but my guess is that my guess is that
that was what the leverage play was was they were
already engaged at some point with Pittsburgh, it sounds like,
and then we're re engaged after this first report came
out that the Patriots and the Browns had deals in
place with San Francisco pending an extension for Brandon Nayuk.

(03:53):
And then what happens is that you leak out there
through one of your guys, you know, your local guys,
like a reser, tom In or something like that, that
there's interest in the Browns and the Patriots have frameworks
of deals, and then all of a sudden, guess who
comes back around twelve hours later, the freaking Pittsburgh Stealers, Right,
they come out of nowhere again and they're like, Okay,

(04:16):
we're going to jump back into this race. This is
really where he wants to go. So here's the facts
of the case. The fact number one is that the
Patriots reportedly had a framework of a trade done with
San Francisco. This was not about compensation with the forty
nine ers. They had the deal done. The other fact is,

(04:39):
now this report, the exact number in figures aren't necessarily
out there, but I trust Mike Greece, and he said
that the Patriots were willing to make Brandon Niuk a
top five paid receiver in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, And there were other reports that had them north
at twenty eight million dollars a year.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah. Josina Anderson just said that she had heard twenty
eight point five. I've heard already somewhere in the twenty
eight to thirty million dollar.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Range, which is legitimate. I mean, that would make him.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
A legitimate a legitimate offer.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's just shy of Justin Jefferson, which is about I
never expected them to break the Justin Jefferson.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, it's about what Tyreek killed in his restructured contract,
just got with the Miami diach so competitive market value
contract for Brandon Nyuk. And guess what, Brandon Nyuk does
not want to come to New England. He doesn't want
to be here. And Adam Schefter added to it and said,
you know, this morning, I think it was in a

(05:34):
clip that I had seen that the Patriots got that
vibe in the negotiation that they were going to Brandon
Nyuk's people, his agent, and there just wasn't a whole
lot of back and forth. There was a whole lot
of traction to the contract talks, almost on purpose, to
the point that they kind of felt like, he doesn't

(05:54):
really want to be here. So we're negotiating against a
brick wall, right. This is a one sided negotiation because
the other side doesn't really want to play ball. So
this is where the Patriots are at. The Patriots are
in a position now where they need by on the
field results. They need to make themselves an attraction again. Yep,

(06:18):
they need to make themselves appealing again. Because a Uke
had leverage, he does not need to sign an extension.
He essentially has a no trade clause, right because no
team is giving up the package the forty nine ers
are asking for without an extension in place with the player.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
And I think that's why the Patriots pulled out. That's
just kind of what it sounded like. Is Brandon and you,
you know, would have I mean, like you say, he
had no trade clause, he would have come here. But
you're not going to trade for him without to guarantee
the extension. If his team comes to you and says, yeah, okay,
make the trade and then we'll see from there, you
can't make that trade without a guaranteed extension.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, this was all these trade terms that were agreed
to or contingent on Brandon and you signing an extension.
No extension, no trade. It's that simple. So I don't
want to hear it about money. I don't want to
hear it about compensation. This was a decision made by
the player that he does not want to be a Patriot.
And when I say I don't want to hear about

(07:14):
it the money or the compensation, that's not letting the
team off the hook. They they don't. They are not
attracting people right A. Brandon Nyuk's caliber and Calvin Ridley's caliber,
even though they're I think in different tiers but similar situations.
They're not attracting players you name brand players of that
caliber because of the situation that they're in as a team.

(07:37):
And I know a lot of Patriots fans and my
mentions I'm sure in yours too. Well, Why the Pittsburgh Steelers,
I couldn't tell you. I don't.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
I it's Tomlin.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Tomlin, the fact that they won ten games last year
and we're in the playoffs, the fact that they never
have a losing season, and they're always sort of in
the mix in the AFC, even if they're not a
true and Super Bowl contender. But I'm not Brandon Nyuk.
I can't read his mind. But the point is is
that he is telling you that Pittsburgh is a more
desirable destination. Calvin Ridley told you Tennessee is a more

(08:07):
desirable destination. Until that changes, you are going to be
leverage and that stakes.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Despite and despite with the cry babies on Twitter will
tell you that can change. Yeah, I mean a lot
of things have to happen for that to change, but
that can change. Look, they're a four win team with
an unproven defensive head coach an uncertainty at quarterback. Two
of those things can change. Sereon Mayo is always gonna
be a defensive head coach. But if you win some games,

(08:35):
Drake may shows you something and maybe, like Alex van Pelt,
that offensive system picks up some steam. Yeah, you're gonna
get the attention wide receivers. This comes down to whatever
thing comes down to for the Patriots right now. Can
Drake May be the guy? Yes? Or no? And Drake
May doesn't even have to be great. I go back
to and Evan, you know how much it kills me

(08:55):
to do this. Buffalo Josh Allen was not established when
they made that. He started showing some flashes. He was
in the second half, he was he had good moments.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, but he was touchdowns okay, but the error was
pointed upward.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
But it was flashes. It wasn't anything definitive.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah there was.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
There's no way that he wasn't what he is now.
But this is my point. All you need is Drake
made a flash. Yeah, all you need is Drake made it.
Just flash. He doesn't have to win Rookie of the
Year and you build some traction and now there's interest.
But again it comes down to what everything comes down
for the Patriots. Is Drake made the guy or not?
If he is, Wide receivers want to want to play

(09:38):
with him. If he's not the guy, they have bigger
problems than simply needing to get another number one wide
receiver because you got to reset this whole thing again
if he's not the guy. Yeah, that's what it comes
down to.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's such a tough spot to be in because you
need to build equity around the league and show these
star players that you're building something promising here. But you
have to do it essentially just through the draft and
through within because you're not attracting the players yet.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's like a chicken or the egg type of thing
where you don't have the equity built to sign a
big name free agent like Calvin Ridley or make a
big splash trade like Brandon Aiyuk, but you don't have
the talent to be a playoff team to show that spark.
But you also don't have the equity to make the
trades that give you the talent, Right, So it's a
tough spot to be in.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
So that comes down to player development. Yeah, the guys
that you drafted, the guys that you have here, can
you develop them and maximize them?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah? The last point I want to make on this,
and then I'm sure, we'll talk about this throughout the show.
The other point I wanted to make on this was
we've talked a lot about on the show about when
is the right time to make this trade, and this
would be in our timelines that we've thrown out there,
the bills and digs in Alan hurts an aj brown

(10:55):
to a in Tyreek, like, whatever combination you want to
look at is probably a year or two earlyer than
those teoms.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's it's acceptable, but it's definitely like the earliest it
would be right.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
And for the most part we've discussed that as well.
You got to see what the quarterback is.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
And you want a quarterback is what Polk is, what
Baker is, where your draft picks end up.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, like you want to see how it kind of
festers here, like how kind of builds here. The other
element of it that maybe deserves talking about in this
situation is that you also make yourself more desirable, right,
like if the quarterback starts to pan out and the
situation starts to look better. So maybe the reason why

(11:36):
these trades don't go down in the off season before
the rookie season of the quarterback that you just drafted
third overall is because to Brandon Nyuk, as much as
I might disagree with it, based off of watching Russell
Wilson and Justin Fields play last year, Russell Wilson and
Justin Fields are names that Brandon Nyuk recognizes, right. Those
are names of guys that have played in the league. Obviously,

(11:58):
in Justin Fields's case, have really decorated college player that
every those guys all know about. You know. Similarly with Cleveland,
Deshaun Watson's not the same Deshaun Watson that he was
in Houston or at Clemson or whatever, but Deshaun Watson
is a name brand quarterback in this league. The Patriots
need to get to a point where their operation is
viewed in those similar categories. And that might also be

(12:20):
why you can't move up the timeline on this type
of trade. You might need a year or two to
make this happen first, Like if you're lucky, you're a
team like the Houston Texans that do it in the
year and then Stefan Diggs comes in year two. But
you might it might be two years from now before
they truly are an attraction to the point where they
can land a guy like I.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Know, people don't want to hear this, but it's about patients.
And I've seen people say, well, it's been five years
they've been trying to do this. Not really, it's been
six months. Yeah, the last guy tried, Bill tried and
he missed. And I think this is a different approach.
I can't imagine Bill ever offering a receiver thirty million
dollars a year, so they missed on their first one.
You know, I'd see people throwing out terms interest kings

(13:01):
and things like that. It's not we're not remotely there yet.
We're not remotely there. And with this reminds me of
a little bit. And I text you about this last night.
I think I texted about this last night like I had,
for whatever reason, a bunch of Celtics fans going off
on the Patriots for this and call them like interest
kings and they just they're always talking about making a deal,
but they never make a deal. How many years did

(13:22):
the Celtics sit there and just hype up the nets
picks h and it was Jimmy Butler and it was
Anthony Davis and it was DeMarcus Cousins, right, GWHI Leonard
and they never did anything And people got on them
for not making the move and then would happen. And
I'm not saying it's going to be exactly the same.
I don't think like Jay, you know, will the Patriots
Jay's Jalen Polk and Javon Baker he as good as

(13:42):
the Celtics J's I don't know. But the point is
just because they haven't made the move doesn't mean they'll
never make the move. And look the Celtics once they
kind of got there, they started getting more aggressively. Oh
they've never signed a big name wide receiver. You're right
they haven't. Well, it's because they haven't until they've done it.
They'll never trade for a big.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Name Well, this is usually me finger waggon.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
They haven't until they do.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
No.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
But like I hate this is a general pet peeve
I have of the way people talk about sports that
because something's happened, it will never happen. The Cubs won
the World Series, Okay, Leo DiCaprio, it's not sports. Leo
DiCaprio won an oscar, That college football EA video game
came back. Like things change, that's life. We live in
an ever changing world. Embrace it. Who is like the

(14:27):
Bills never made a splash move for a wide receiver
until they traded for Stefan Diggs. Yeah, it is fair
to point out that they have to this point struggled
to make this move that most teams can make that
is a very beneficial move. That is a fair criticism
absolutely to use this And this is where what I
forget exactly what I said at the top of the
show about I think people are putting the car before

(14:49):
the horse here and maybe getting too carried away. It
is fair to say that they haven't been able to
land the plane. It is fair to say they've not
been able to get the fish in the boat. And
these kind of moves happen all the time in the NFL,
and they've come up short. Now this front office has
come up short once, if you want to say the
organization has come up short three times in the last
two years, between DeAndre Hawkins, Calvin Ridley now Brandon Ayuk.

(15:11):
That is a fair criticism to say it will never happen. Yeah,
because Brandon Ayuk in this one instance, chose not to
come to New England. You're just looking for something to
whine about at that point. That's the reality of it,
because all it takes. All it takes is Drake May
showing little flash and the conversation completely changes. Things change
fast in the NFL. Don't be surprised if it happens again.
And the efforts there, and the efforts the right and

(15:32):
we know now thirty million dollars on the table willing
to part the top fifty draft pick. All of that,
we know the mentality is there.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, I want to talk about the mentality really quickly,
but before we do, Hey, Patriots fans, if you want
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(16:01):
that chefter tweet. Mentality. I want to talk about that
real quickly as we put a bow on this, and
then we'll talk camp and tomorrow night and all that
kind of stuff. The interesting thing I find about the
mentality is that Elliott Wolf, his two mentors, Bill and
his father, and neither one of them were known for

(16:27):
being this aggressive in terms of veteran additions, and especially
being this aggressive at the wide receiver position. The Packers
drafted receivers all the time, but they didn't. The Packers
don't take part in free agency notorious. They don't bring
in external additions often. Maybe once in a blue moon

(16:50):
they might bring in a Reggie White like I think
was his dad's big move, right, and he traded for
far But it's a different quarterbacks different But every once
in a while those things would happen when it would
put them over the top, you know, the Patriots signing
Darrell Reeves, the Patriots signing Stefan Gilmour, like those moves
to help them put them over the top as a
roster to a Super Bowl contender. But they are not

(17:15):
aggressive spenders in this sense. They'll resign guys that deserve extensions,
but they're not aggressive spenders. I find it interesting that
in his first offseason at the helm of a football operation,
a job that he's been building towards for his entire life,
that he is bucking all the trends of the Packer

(17:36):
way and the Patriot way. And I'm not saying I
don't like it or against it or anything like that.
But he's his own guy, Like this is not this
is not Ron Wolfe.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, it's not. It's a different league than Ron Wolfe
was in. It's really a different league than Prime Bill
Belichick was in. Right, it's it's a wide receiver dictated
league or not dictated.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
But cascam dictator.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Right. We know Matt grow is big on this, and
they never got the deal done, but he had talked
about in the past recognizing the importance of getting these
playmakers on your offense. So I wonder if it's just
two younger guys that grew up in a different NFL
taking what they've known in the past. And I guess
it could just be wolf but like a guy that
you know, he learned what he learned growing up. But

(18:19):
also recognizing that, like I said before, the NFL changes,
the NFL changes a lot. The game is not what
it was ten years ago. It's really kind of moved
on from what it was even five years ago. And
understanding that those old core philosophies may work, but at
the end of the day, you do need to make
adjustments to keep up with the times.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I just there was a chance, and my guess
is that it's a combination of things. I agree with
you wholeheartedly that it's that is probably number one. That
it's a different league, it's a different time, all those
kinds of things. I also do think that there is
pressure is probably the wrong word, but there is urgency
on the part of ownership to put this team back

(18:58):
on the map in a good way, in a positive way,
and that's not going to happen the draft and develop approach,
even though that's the right way for sustainability, that's not
going to make it happen in a short period of time.
That's gonna be we're gonna be talking about, you know, two, three,
four years from now them being a contender, whereas I
feel like the Crafts would And this is just my

(19:21):
two cents, it's not informed or anything, but I just
feel like their timeline is they would like it to
be quicker than that. Everybody would like it to be
quicker than that. So the way to do that is
obviously to add proven commodity players to the roster along
with drafting and developing and doing it the quote unquote
right way as we often hear. But the Packers were
a draft and developed team. They were built from within

(19:43):
type of team. They weren't a free agency team, they
weren't a splash trade team, and neither really was Bill
and so it's just interesting that that's not at all
what Elliot Wolf's approach has been. Hasn't landed the plane,
but that's not at all what his approach has been.
So that's Brandon Aiyuk. That kind of sets the tone
for the day on that. We'll obviously take calls, questions,

(20:06):
all that about it moving forward if he's won as well.
So I'm sure we'll circle back to Brandon Aiyuk. But
I also think that, you know, the more important stuff.
Now that this is over, it turns the page to
training camp and what we've seen over the last week
since the last time we did the show, and then
of course tomorrow night the first dress rehearsal against the
Carolina Panthers right here a Jillette Stadium with the Patriots

(20:27):
and the Panthers, which Drod Mayo said, everybody's gonna play.
That's healthy, and Jacoby Brisset is probably gonna play a
little bit. It sounds like it's gonna start the game
and Drake May is going to play. I expect Drake
May to play a lot, so for a lot of
you guys that haven't been able to get out the camp,
this will be the first opportunity for the people to

(20:47):
see Drake May in a Patriot uniform and watch him play,
which will be interesting. I want to reset our quarterback
thoughts and where we stand right now with that. And
I guess there's really not much to say about Brissett.
I wouldn't say, you know, kind of know what he is,
and he's been as advertised in these camp practices, whether

(21:08):
it's just being a functional, serviceable veteran stop gap and
just a great dude honestly, Like I know, nobody really
cares about that, but he he matters. He matters, And
I said he didn't. I apologize to him for that.
I shouldn't have said that, you know, I didn't. I
wasn't familiar with your game, as they like to say,

(21:29):
so I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Last week Flgar for doing the same thing.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
No, I got mad at Felger because Felger told me
that Jacoby Brissett was trash for weeks on end, I
said on one of our live PU shows during training
camp that I didn't care about Jacoby Brissett in the
prism of training camp to me, was all about evaluating
Drake May and I could really care.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Less, Okay, right not.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I you know, I think that Jacobyberseet can play a
little bit. I've always said that about you know, his
Brown season and two twenty two and uh, if you
look at the numbers and you look at the tape
from that season, it's it's better than people think it is.
I'm not saying it's great. I'm not saying you're gonna
win Super Bowl. I'm not saying that he's gonna win
ten to eleven games for you this year. But it's certainly
better than the quarterback play they've gotten here over the

(22:17):
last two years.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
And that's exactly how I feel about about Jacoby Brissett
with Drake May though. And I know you're gonna tell me,
you know, learn your lessons, slow down, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Let's see what it looks like tomorrow night. It's a
big test for him, yep, in a game setting. If
it comes apart tomorrow night, then I'll change my tune.
Subject to change. But we're trending towards that point of

(22:41):
the summer where I would just like to see him
with starters against starters, and it's almost just as important
to see him against starters as it is with Yeah,
we're at the point now where it looks like he's
starting to stack days where the results aren't always perfect,
and you know when people tweet out the training camp

(23:02):
stats there, you know it's it's sometimes uneven, you know,
five of eleven, six for twelve, whatever the number is.
But the eye test, he looks like he's seeing it
a little bit better. Is the ball's coming out a
little bit quicker, He's a little bit more confident. You
can actually see him kind of going through reads and

(23:23):
recognizing things pre snap a little bit faster. I've liked
what I've seen out of him from let's call it
the last three or four practices in that regard, and
that was really what we were talking about in terms
of the development, was between the years, you know, processing,
decision making, anticipation, timing, rhythm, all that kind of stuff.
I feel like he's he's coming along in those regards,

(23:45):
and at some point he has had a mix of
rosterable receivers that he's throwing to. You know, Baker is
out there with him, Polk is out there with him.
On occasion, Pop is out there with him. So it's
not like he's always going to back end to the
roster guys. But he doesn't have usually have Hunter Henry
because Hunter Henry gets his work in with the ones

(24:06):
and then and then sits it sits out, and he
doesn't have Remondree in the backfield. I would just and
he most importantly, he doesn't have the starting offensive line.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Which is really the backup offensive line. Yeah, he's been
working with the backup offensive line, which is really the
third offensive line.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right, and we already know on this team. It's a
great point. We already know on this team that offensive
line depth is an issue. Right, So think about not
only does he not have this the quote unquote starting
offensive line, he's now working with the backup.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Working with guys that probably won't be on the team.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, in a lot of cases, like Leyden Robinson will
be here as a draft pick. And you know, there
have been times recently where like Leverett has subdi because
the snaps have just been disastrous and they they've needed that.
You know, we talk a lot about yesterday the reports
out of practice, A lot of them were start looked

(25:01):
really good. You know, had that one drive where he
was getting the ball out quick and hitting Jalen Rager
underneath and taking profits and marching the offense a little bit.
And he had a fantastic seven on seven run which
I don't really care about at this point, like, but
it existed. And then we got into the hurry up
or the one minute or whatever you want to call it,
and the the wheels came off right, you know, he

(25:24):
came off the rails. But when he really break down
what happened in that hurry up sequence, and I know
people always making excuses again whatever the hurry up offense.
There's two drops in there. There's a bad snap that
got the center replaced that a delay game, which tells
you that it was the center because they yanked him

(25:45):
right away. And the pick that he threw was like
a bang bang play where he went through Javon Baker's
hands and then tipped up in the air and like
it was just one of those plays. It wasn't like
I thought he made a terrible read and threw the
ball right to it right. There's so much context, is
my point in all some of these reps that if

(26:07):
he's with the starters, if he's with the ones who
have looked like they've clicked a little bit and are
coming into a rhythm at times and practice like maybe
all of these little blips of it are along along
the way, don't look as bad if the ball is
not going right through people's hands and things like that, right, right, So,
I'm not telling you that I'm ready to annoint him

(26:29):
as the starter yet I've learned I'm getting there. But
he's at the point now where I feel like, if
he has a good performance tomorrow night in the preseason game,
he's earned the right to at least see what it
looks like with him with the starters. That doesn't mean
you have to bench cover like, doesn't mean you have
to change course, right It just for right now, it's

(26:51):
it's probably worth a look that. And That's kind of
where I'm at with drag Man. I'm just encouraged by
the timing and the rhythm and the processing seem to
be faster, quicker, be more in sync of what you
would want out of an NFL quarterback than what they
were let's say this time a week and a half ago.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, and you use the word earned in there. I
think that's the big I think that's the big one.
I think that that's the important term because you do
have to earn starts. You do have to earn reps
with the starters. And that's not just from the coaching
stavage from your teammates. Guys want to play with the
quarterback that's gonna allow them to maximize what they can do.
And we talked a lot about this with Mac and

(27:28):
Bailey's Appy the last couple of years about where the
locker room is at. I would expect he'll see sometime
with the ones, whatever the ones looks like in this
game again with all the offensive lineman out, and those
are big reps. Form, those big reps form. Like you said,
this is where if he's gonna make that push, that's
where it starts. You want to get reps with the
starters and the joint practice, which is very important. Prove

(27:49):
tomorrow night you're up for it. Yeah, and then from there, right,
you have a good joint practice and you go in
a second preseason game and you start closing that gap.
So this is his chance to start earning reps with
the ones. He does have to earn them. You can't
let your timeline dictate his development. His development is to
dictate your timeline. And he comes out with the starters
and struggles. Let's not force it and say, well, it

(28:11):
was his first time with the starters. Let's keep No,
he's gotta look the part in order to earn more reps.
But this is a chance for him to earn more reps.
And if he does play well Thursday night, Dennett's all right,
how's he looking to the joint practice? How's he look
in the preseason game against the Eagles. And then you
get to start having that conversation of all right, when
do we see this in a real game. Yeah, there's

(28:33):
a lot of ifs in there, but you know, I hear.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
What you're saying, and I have a question for you
in a second. But the other thing I just wanted
to say was I've really liked how they've coached him
so far in these practices I had the other day.
And I can't tell you if this has been true
for every single practice because I didn't do this. But
during games, when we're sitting in the press box, I
live chart coverages for usually the Patriots defense. I don't

(28:57):
usually try it the other way, but I'll have chart,
you know, cover one, cover two, blitz, whatever, right, So
I did that for a practice to see what exactly
the coaches are throwing at Drake may in these practices,
because when I was watching it, well, first of all,
what really sparked it was that when he spoke to
us last he said that they had a shot play

(29:19):
drew drawn up that they called for him in the
huddle and then the defense dropped out into cover two
and he was going to be throwing right into the defense,
so he had to check the ball down and you
could feel a sense of maybe a little bit frustration
with the fact that he hadn't been able to truly
air it out, is the terms that he used yet

(29:40):
in practice. So I said, all right, let's see what
they're doing for the practice that I charted in I
believe it was it was Monday's practice. I saw a
lot of cover two or two high safety. I saw
a lot of blitz and so what they're doing with
those two things when they blitzed him, they were making
him hot, which means that he needs to come with

(30:01):
the ball out right, So you're not gonna sit there,
you know, when there's an unblock blitzer coming off the
edge and they're like run a nickel pressure or something
like that. You're not gonna just like sit there for
three seconds and hold the ball and wait for the
routes down the field to develop and chuck it down
the field. So he you know, when the blitz hit came,
the ball's out, right, he's got to be out. So
he's throwing the ball to his hot at that point

(30:22):
when they play too high, just like he told us
in the presser, Okay, well I'm not gonna throw a
deep ball into too high because I'm throwing the ball
into you know, into double coverage, Like why would I
do that? Right? So instead what is he doing. He's
checking the ball down. The things that we talk about
with him at North Carolina that were issues that a
lot of people you know, put up to his footwork

(30:43):
and things like that, but a lot of it was Okay.
We know that he can make the big time throws.
We know he can make the highlights. We know he's
a playmaker. He can run around, he can make plays
off platform, he can do all that kind of stuff.
What we don't know is if he can hit the
layups Can he just sit in the pocket, within structure

(31:05):
and just hit throws on time and in rhythm consistently.
At North Carolina, that was his issue. He could go
out like you put Drake May's best ten college throws
against any quarterback that was drafted in the last like
three or four years, and his throws are right up
there with Anybodyi's. It was the consistency of can he

(31:26):
hit and out when that's all that's available to him?
Can he check a ball down against the too high pressure?
Can he beat a blitz? Can he do all these
little quarterback Intrica season nuances? So in practice, what they've
said to him is, you're not gonna be superman out here,
Like we're not gonna just let you run around and
throw sixty yard bombs all day because we know you
can do that. That's all over your college tape. We're

(31:48):
gonna make you play quarterback. We're gonna send stuff at
you and you're gonna have to read this out, and
you're gonna have to make the best decision with the football,
and you're gonna have to take profits. You're not gonna
get greedy and throw the ball into coverage and throw
picks left and right, this took a lot of time
for Josh Allen to learn to be able to play
like this. And I know you're gonna tell me he's still.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Has still learning, right, He's still learning.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
But this has taken a lot of time for him.
And if you look at Mahomes also, Mahomes' career a
dot and a lot of this is tied to Tyreek Hill,
and I get that, but Mahomes' career A dot is
like goes like this right where like beginning of his career,
he's throwing bombs to Tyreek Hill and now he's like

(32:34):
a dink and dunk quarterback all of a sudden, right
because teams are just playing too high safety. They're playing
too you know, they're playing quarters, they're playing cover two,
and they are saying to Mahomes like, we're not gonna
let you beat us like that. You're gonna have to march.
And right now the Patriots are forcing Drake May to
learn how to march. And I love it. I think

(32:54):
that's exactly how you should coach him because this is
his weakness, like allowing him to just play to his
strengths and his instincts, and this doesn't do anybody any good.
It's not gonna make him any better. This type of
stuff is gonna make him better. So when you put
all this together and you look at some of the
ups and downs, I think this explains a lot of
the downs because they're asking him to play to his
weaknesses and do things that he needs to work on

(33:15):
in practice, which is what practice is for. So sometimes
we go out to practice and we watch and we
charte all the throws and we grade the results of
the plays, and it's not pretty for him at times,
but there's a lot of things that go into that.
And I'd much rather this than like watching him go
out there and play street ball and just let him
do it that way, because that's not teaching good habits,

(33:38):
Like that's not NFL quarterback play, that's playground stuff. So
we're in a situation now where they're really trying to
hone in on can you play within the scheme and
within the structure of the offense. And then once we
can get to that point, okay, we'll start letting you
do the other things, and then we add him together

(34:00):
and now all of a sudden, we got a franchise quarterback, right,
Like that's that's the goal. So I'm excited about what
they're doing with him from a coaching perspective. Now, we
hope to see the results, but he's starting to take
to the coaching a little bit, I think too, and
improve on those areas. And that's that's all you can
ask for. So my question to you, because you know

(34:20):
I am. You called me on another show that we
did together, on the Patriots Beat Crossover, you called me
the biggest the number one fan of the Drake May
fan club.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
I think is the biggest Drake May fit. Yeah, yeah,
something along those biggest Drake May Support or something like that.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
So you know everybody knows I'm a Drake May guy.
Was before we'll be after. The question I have for
you is like, am I do I have Rose coud
glasses on with this? Or are you seeing similar things
with his progress and practice?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
So I I mean, I think you're mostly accurate. I
think you're I wouldn't say road colored classes. I think
you're projecting some going in the right direction, which they
very well could but they haven't yet. But no, I
like that they're making him play left handed. I do
think that they are kind of forcing him to do
the things he's not comfortable to do. That is how

(35:12):
you develop a quarterback. I would hope at some point
they maybe, or I not hope. I guess you want
to balance that with making sure he doesn't lose his confidence.
And he doesn't look like he's done that yet. But
you know you don't want to entirely break the kid either, right.
I think the big thing is it's all everything's happening

(35:36):
quicker for him than it happened at UNC, and I
think that to me, he has been The big issue
is just in some of that is he's reading things
he hasn't read before and they're not favorable to what
he wants to see.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
The read and react time in the NFL is much
shorter than the read and react time in the ACC,
and that's where he was having some issues. And then
you put on top of that, nobody's blocking for him,
like he couldn't get any protection in the practice yesterday.
The word I kept going back to was comfortable. I
thought he looked comfortable. It also happened to be the
practice that he got the best pass blocking because David

(36:06):
Andrews's back, so Nick Leverett goes back with that group.
I thought kayten Wallas had a really good day, like
he just had more time and that's that, to me,
was the most encouraging thing that I don't want to
say like there was nothing to worry about from last week,
because they're definitely he didn't look great, but the pass

(36:28):
pro is a big part of it, and I think
it was encouraging to see, Okay, he had some time,
and when he had time, he didn't look as flustered,
like he actually used the time he had to deliver
the ball. And you know some of the live game
rep stuff. I put more stock into that two minute trailer,
one minute drill going more awry than maybe you did
because the baker one I don't like to read. I

(36:51):
don't that's a tight window that you're showing a ton of.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Dress and those are definitely ones that you'll learn now
at this level that that window doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
So I was gonna say, if he learns from that
and doesn't throw that again, then fine, he threw the pick,
he learned from it. It happens like anytime there's a
there's I know you said they you know, moved on
from Affie. But anytime you don't get the ball snapped
that's partially on the quarterback. That's just the reality of
the position, right, So I still am concerned about in

(37:20):
the livest game situations, the one minute the two minute
drills are his worst periods of practice. And that is
to me part of the reason why Thursday is so big,
because it is live game action, show up, show up,
show it in a live game. But I was encouraged
by all, Right, now that he has time to throw,
we're seeing a little more of that true quarterbacking than

(37:43):
maybe we were seeing earlier in practice.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, that's totally fair about the hurry up. You have
to put some on the quarterback. The fact that it's
not even just that he's not moving the ball, he's
not completing a pass.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
No, he's gone. He's it's like, oh for eight if
I remember, But it's not just oh fraight. He hasn't
fit fished with the score yet on a one or
two minute. But I think you said he's run eight
of them. I don't have the number in my head. Yeah,
how many first downs does he have? I don't He
might not have one over the last two practices.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
I'm in that one last practice, I think he's literally
oh for eight in terms of pass attemps, I don't
think he's pass attimes. I don't think he's completed a
single paser.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I think going back, he might have because they've done
a few of these. They've probably about eight of them,
like that number sound or right. I remember he had
one where he picked up a first down but he
literally was third and long and they threw it in
the flat to Terrell Jennings and Jennings made a guy
miss and picked up the first down. Like yeah, it's
not even like, oh, you know, he's moving the ball,
but he's not scoring touchdowns or oh you know, they're

(38:40):
making competitive plays. He's not moving the ball in those situations.
That is my real concern right now. But that's also
Thursday night so big because if he does it Thursday night,
all right, well when the lights got brighter, he did it,
so whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, we'll get to more individual players in the second
one thing and that you mentioned, and Paul has mentioned
this on Filtered as well, and I guess I probably
I know it sounds almost stupid, but like I don't
necessarily pay as much attention to it because what I
I'm more looking for is like perfect plays, right, Like
was that cleaned, that it executed properly, all that kind

(39:14):
of tent right, Yeah, but there's been a lot even
not just for Drake Maye what Jacobi were set to
of like the play clock, like getting to zero, the
snap not getting off, or like just like stuff in
between plays operational, Yeah, where it's like are they are
they getting in and out of the huddle fast enough?

(39:36):
Are they doing? And that kind of stuff tends to
and I know this kind of goes up your alley,
So that's why I'm bringing it up. That kind of
stuff with these types of West Coast and like these
these types of offensive coaches. I know this's gonna sound stupid,
but they like almost don't care in a practice, and
they they expect that this is the NFL. Yeah, when

(39:59):
we get into games, like you're gonna know how like
this is the NFL, Right, I don't have to baby
you through these. Whereas with Bill that was part of practice, right,
was this is a game. Treat it like a game.
If we don't get the playoff, I'm throwing the fake
flag and we're going five yards back for delay of game.
In these practices, they almost ignore the play clock. They

(40:20):
don't even look at it.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
So that's why I said on the on the Drake
May one minute yesterday, the play clock was like well
out before the bad snap from AFY and they never
really acknowledged it.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
They they don't care. And I don't know if that's
for the better or for the worse, Like we'll find out.
But my guess is if you went to some of
these other camps that have similar philosophies and coaching trees
and things like that, I don't know if they would care.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
I mean, it's a it's a West Coast tree thing.
Game management's not important. Like that's why I brought it up.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Now i'd say that, hey, you're gonna get there, am
I ron No, That's why I've.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Been And you see now why I hear. It's easy
to say I'm over it's overblown when it's not the
team you're watching day in and day no.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Because you get into the games and we see this
on Sundays with some of these teams, and I'm this
is hot where it.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Might have Daniel in a playoff game can't get a
play calling correct, So like it does matter. I Brissett's
been better about it. The first few days of practice.
The top offense had some issues. They've been pre They
had one drop snap yesterday. It was in a rain.
It's David Andrews. I'm not gonna fret about that. With
Drake May's group, there's still some operational stuff. I would
hope if and when maybe comes the starter leading up

(41:30):
to that, even if it's like a week or two before,
if you know you're kind of on the precipice of
making that change, you drill that will they I don't know,
but no, you're right about that.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah. It's it's funny because it manifests itself on Sundays
with these types of coaches, and I know, people on
your side of the street will say, oh, they're like,
they're no, their nose deep in the freaking play sheet
and they don't like or like watching the game or
feeling the game or whatever. Whereas Bill was always like
stoic on the sideline, you know, just kind of seeing everything.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Well, Mayo's not from that background. It is a little
surprising that Mayo and maybe if it does become an issue,
Mayo goes to Van Pelton says, you need to work
on this. I know you have your practice script, but
this that would be that'd be an interesting test for
Mayo as the first time head coach, Like, if it
does become a problem, does he go to Van Pelt,
who's just has more tenure as a coach, and say,

(42:23):
I'm the head coach of the team, this is unacceptable,
this is happening. You need a dedicate practice time to
fixing it. I would hope he would do that.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, I'm still interested in that aspect of girod Mayo,
and also just in the aspect of he said that
he wants to be a floater. Yeah, in terms of
being a coach like Bill was, where you know, he's
popping around at different position groups and offense, defense, special teams, whatever.
H I wonder how, I wonder if he has the

(42:52):
acumen for it. I'm not trying to like get at
him for like football IQ or anything like that. He
obviously knows football. I'm just saying there's a big difference
when you're Bill Belichick and you're doing that and you
have what is it, fifty some odd years of information
you know, stowed away in the brain, and you've coached
multiple sides of the ball, special teams, defense, whatever, that

(43:16):
he can flow because he's Bill Belichick right like hel
and he can tell you all twenty two guys what
they did wrong on a play instantly. It's interesting to
approach for a first time head coach that's his youngest
girod because most of the guys in his school or
like that are in his situation and his shoes. They
would just coach their side of the ball, right like.
He's a defensive guy, so he would just coach the defense.

(43:40):
And Alex Van Pelt is an experienced offensive coordinator that
he's brought in, and so he would just let Alex
van pel coach the offense. I still don't know we're
fully in Bill mode yet, like maybe he's still doing
more of the defense than anything. But I'll be interested
to see once we get into the season how hands
on he is with the other phases. Is because you

(44:01):
just give you an example. You know, Demiko Ryans in Houston.
Demiko Ryans is calling the defense in Houston. He's literally
the play caller on game day on the defensive side
of the ball, and he doesn't necessarily touch the offense
as much. So we'll see what happens. It's it's officially
back the football season, which means it's back to school season, Alex,

(44:23):
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(44:45):
then we'll get to it. We're gonna do three up,
three down again from the last week or so of camp.
But Patty is an agua. What's up?

Speaker 4 (44:51):
Patty?

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Take you?

Speaker 5 (45:00):
So, just regarding Drake, by tomorrow night, I'm not gonna
be able to see the game because I got to
drive to port Chester, New York for Magawam for five am.
But I'm recording it. But do you think do you
think their philosophy is just going to be like, you know,
just don't hesitate if you see something or if you're
anticipating something, just let her rip, you know, trying you know,

(45:24):
don't overthink it, don't have some fun, but just you know,
do what they're doing. Try and play in structure, and
like I said, don't hesitate if you if you see
something or anticipate something, make it happen. I'll take it
off here, guys. That's always you guys are the best.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Thanks, Patty, appreciate it. Yeah, I I hope and I
feel like based off of talking to the quarterbacks that
that's sort of the mindset even in practice.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
I think it was Joe Milton actually who said the
other day, if you're thinking about making a mistake, you're
gonna make a mistake. It's when you just play loose
and play free you don't make mistakes. So I would
expect that that's exactly where they're gonna have Drake May
going into this game is don't think about it. Just
let it rip, you know, if you see it, let

(46:09):
it rip, you know, Like it doesn't need to be
any deeper than that. I expect him to take his
chances and you're not risk right, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
I would hope that they just tell him to take
the same approach he would for a game, like a
regular season game, practice how you play. He should have
the same approach and practice that he does in preseason
games that does in regular season games. Yeah, this's just
if you start overthinking it, then bad things happen. Yeah,
I agree, all right, along these lines that are on that,

(46:39):
how much you think he's gonna play.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, it's a good place just put that in. I
would expect it depends on how Girod said to Jacoby
Brissett's gonna start. So I'm just gonna take him at
his work. If Jacoby Brissett starts, then obviously a lot
depends on how that first drive and they go three
and out and they want him to get some work in,
then that's not gonna do it right. You're gonna have
to say and then back out there, and then you're

(47:01):
starting to get into like real game time and all
that kind of stuff. My guess is that they'll have
a certain set number of drives that they would like
Drake May to play. Whether that spans into the second
half or not will be determined on how long the
drives are and all that kind of stuff. I expect
him to play the equivalent of probably at least a
quarter and a half, if not the whole a whole

(47:23):
half of football, especially if they're planning on him not
playing early in the year, which is I still think
the plan for them, then this is the this is
his opportunity to get game reps. So if they're not
going to play him until Halloween or Thanksgiving or something
like that in the regular season, now's the time. Like
he's not going to get any better reps than this.

(47:44):
So I'd expect him to play a good chunk of
this game. I'd say conservatively a quarter and a half equivalent,
but maybe even two full quarters.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
So I think two maximum three drives for Brissette, So
that puts may in late in the first quarter, start
a second quarter. Yeah, I think he plays the whole
second quarter. There is this is where and so I
some of this may be decided on the fly. There
is value and Bill used to talk about this and having
the quarterback, young quarterback go in a halftime meet with

(48:14):
the coaches, go over adjustments, go out for the first
drive of the third quarter, maybe the second drive, execute
those adjustments. That's a valuable exercise. But if they can't
protect him, maybe he gets the hook after the second quarter.
And I do think that's gonna be a factor because
it could get ugly up front, like they're gonna have

(48:35):
any of the starters gonna play in this game. I
know Mayo said everybody healthy enough to practice will play,
but City so miss practice yesterday. Troops Corps four has
missed the last what four practices? David Andrews, I don't
think is gonna play, even though he practiced a little
bit yesterday. We don't even know really who the starting
left tackle is. You don't have a true starter there.
That leaves Mike Gonino. Who's your best lineman? Does he

(48:58):
play and how much does he play?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
So I don't expect My guess is that some of
those guys, those veteran Yeah, David Andrews, Hunter, Henry, Mike Onwenu.
I don't expect to see those guys.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
So, right, So do they have Are they gonna be
able to protect Drake may Because if they can't and
he's take he's getting the crapp eat out of him.
You can't leave him in the game, right, you can't.
So I think that's going to dictate part of it.
But I think he definitely gets the whole second quarters.
Just do they let him make the turn going into
the second half? Yeah, I bet if they win the
coin toss, they're going to kick for that exact reason.

(49:31):
So they can just put him in the game, get
him out at halftime.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh that's interesting, Okay, all right, I like it. All right,
Dylan is in Tennessee. What's up, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan's up, Dylan.
All right, give us a call back, Dylan, and we'll
get you on the air. A couple of emails here
that we have. Most of these are just uh, you know,

(49:55):
post mortem Brandon Nyuk stuff. Yeah, but you know a
lot of people asking about the same things that we're
kind of saying in terms of that they need to
be more desirable destination, YadA, YadA, YadA. One about Ceedee Lamb,
we like really a little we touch on that a
little bit. I kind of viewed and maybe this is wrong,

(50:16):
and maybe there's there's precedent that I'm not thinking about,
but I sort of view the Jerry Jones Cowboys kind
of like I view the Yankees, where like, when you
have a player of Ceedee Lamb's caliber, Michael Parsons's caliber,
like Jerry Jones, doesn't let those guys get out of there.
So you say that, but but they haven't signed Dak.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
They haven't signed that. They've been acting more like one
of those big market teams. That's not a big market team.
Remember they they promised big splashes at the start of
the off season and then proceeded to sign nobody. And
it's not just about not wanting to bring him back.
They haven't signed Dak and that's starting to get contentious.
I think they also have to pay what is sign
Michael Parsons. Yeah, is almost up too, right.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
If he isn't, So he's it's.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
His extension year. Next year he'll be going.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
He was a twenty twenty one Halft pick, which means
that he's going into year five ye or year four.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
So his his fifth year option will be next year.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Correct, So he's a year away, but he's he's extension eligible.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, and uh yeah, So here's the thing. He can say,
He's gonna pay him eventually all he wants. And this
is some of what I think happened with AU. There's
other factors that play here, But yeah, how long seeding
lamb gonna sit there and hear that how they're seed?
How long is seeding lamb gonna sit there and say, yeah, okay,
you're gonna pay me, Sure, I'll wait, Or does he

(51:32):
get fed up and say, you know what I'm not
listening to you anymore. You've negotiated with me in bad faith.
I don't Jerry Jones is the kind of guy that
will open up the checkbook. Yes, he's also the kind
of guy that could aggravate a player to the point
where runs him out of town before he gets to
opening the checkbook.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
I guess that's fair. I just look at Ceedee Lamb.
I'll just use a current Yankee comparison. Yeah, it would
be like if the Yankees let Aaron Judge walk. They
almost did, and they almost did, but they didn't. Right, Like,
they almost did but they didn't, And our whole lifetime,
that's been the Yankees, right. Derek Jeter never left the Yankees,
Mo Rivera never left you, and it was we never

(52:08):
even talked about it as a possibility.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
It doesn't happen till it does. I'll say it again.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I don't know. I just look at the cow I
can't imagine the Cowboys.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
I would also arrange just again to see is Seede
Lamb gonna be patient? Is Ceede Lamb gonna be patient?
Or is he going to get to the point where
he says, you know what I can get thirty five
million dollars a year from thirty one other NFL teams.
You don't want to pay me, fine, we're done here,
move me.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
So here's uh comedy play.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
How many players the Niners like get away over the years,
like in their prime? I know Jerry Rice left like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
But not many? Not many? Connor and uh uh has
a proposal for cd VAM you want to hear it? Yeah,
it's interesting one actually all right? Uh first round pick
swap okay with Dallas, So yeah, you could do that. Yeah,
second round pick a future third round pick. So I'm
assuming this is like the first round pick swap in
twenty five, second round pick in twenty five. Maybe you're

(53:06):
a twenty twenty six third round pick and either Matthew
Judon or Kendrick Bord.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, I mean, I'd probably get it done. But isn't
the the price is gonna be set by the Ayuk move. Well,
he's a better player than Ayuk, right, but it's gonna
be relatively set going from a second round pick to
a first round all right. And by the way, when
I talk about ceedee Lamb and we'll get to some
of the other guys, like I don't mean doing that
now I'm talking about in the spring.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're definitely talking about it in
the spring here.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Yeah, first round pick swaps interesting. I'd probably rather give
up the second outright than do the first round pickswap.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Well, you are also giving up the second, yeah, I
just in this propose.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I don't think he's gonna cost that much more than you.
I don't think you need to give up that much.
I think it might be he's gonna cost more. But
is it a second and next to your second in
a YUK or something like that.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
I'm interested to see where the market goes with these
receiver trades because is, on the one hand, they're extremely
valuable commodities in the league. Now we know that they're
getting paid like it, they perform, they produce like it
they are. Now, you could make a case, and I
don't know if I would, but you could make a
case of the second most important position in football. But

(54:18):
there's obviously quarterbacks number one, right.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
But there's so many of them.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
So that's my point. There are so many of them,
and now it's also at a point where good talent
evaluating teams can draft them, right, and so at what
point and maybe we'll see it with you know, Brandon
and Yuk. I think is the reason why I wouldn't
say it's comparable is because at the time of year,
because if the if the Cowboys trade Ceedee Lamb, they're

(54:45):
going to trade them in March, which is when his
stock is going to be.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
The Maybe it's the Dick's trade. Maybe it's a first
round pick out right for Ceedee Lamb.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, Like I agree that this Hall would easily get
it done.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Probably, Yeah, you don't need to give up them.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I don't know if you need to give up that much.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I don't think you do either. And there's less of
these there's only so many teams that can give out
these contracts. Yeah, and there's less and less of them,
and they'll be more in March than there are right now.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
But like, like if the if you're just an example
from this past draft, and I get that this draft
was unique at receiver still even yeah, like this was
a great top of the receiver class. My guess is,
and I haven't obviously done deep dives into Burden and
Tech McMillan and those guys, but I don't I can't
imagine that I'm going to have them higher than neighbors

(55:31):
of Dunes, say and Marvin Harrison. I just I can't but.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
They're like a half step below burden. Is McMillan's such
an unknown still?

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Yeah, it just it's hard for me to fathom.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
How far was your gap? Because I get I look
at like Zay Flowers and Xavi You're worthy. Yeah, how
far is the gap between them and neighbors to you?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Big?

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Well, he's like a better version. I think of those
like a slightly better version.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Yeah, neighbors. Neighbors to me would have been.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
You had neighbors up there with Harrison too, you had, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
It was it was close. Yeah, it was closer than
other people had. I don't even know if that's true.
Like I feel like neighbors. By the end, people were
we were all pretty in lockstep. That all three of
those guys were elite blue chip prospects.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I think that was people just needed something to talk
about more than anything else.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
I don't think he was a better prospect than Marvin
Harrison Junior. But if any giants in camp is any indication,
my goodness, but he's He's would be the wide receiver
one in pretty much any other one.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Yeah, all right, but but but look, the point being like,
it's it's supplying demand.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
There's gonna be receivers in the every draft. There is
more every draft is gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
And and there's gonna be guys who want new contracts
every year who the teams won't pay. There's there's more
supply than there is demand for wide receivers. That doesn't
it can change, but doesn't look like it's changing anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yep, all right, Rodney is in Delaware. What's up? Rodney?

Speaker 6 (56:56):
Hey guys, Hey, but I was trying to wonder, how
do you got a little a post trade for other
Orlando Brown from the Bengals since they just drafted Amarius
Men's and they also have Trent Brown or possibly a
Trimp Williams trade.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, thanks for the call of Rodney. So I put
this out on Twitter for the show. So I'm glad
he brought up Trent Williams. The other conversation or the
other sort of rebuttal to the Brandon Ayuk situation I
keep hearing is that the left tackle is a bigger
need than receiver, and I get it to an extent

(57:31):
because they just drafted two receivers. Everybody feels pretty good
about Baker and Polk, like, maybe those guys are enough
at least for now. Maybe they're enough. Maybe they are
Nico Collins in Tank Dell right like, maybe they're they're
enough for now. Whereas left tackle, we both I think
agree with this. Vederian Low cannot be your starting left

(57:52):
tackle in Week one. They're in trouble. But they're in trouble. Yeah,
that's the case. So I get it. It's a bigger need,
but you can't. It's it's not mad, and you can't
just create a player out of thin air and make
him available via trade. If Trent Williams was available via trade,
I think the Patriots would be calling him the forty
nine ers, just like they did with Brandon Nyuk.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
So part of the reason the Niners are trading Brandon
Ayuk is because they want to get in a position
to pay Trent Williams.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah, he's in a tier of his own right now
at left tackle. He's the best left tackle in football,
and I think he's in like a tier an s
tier by himself right now. So if he was available
via trade, the aggressiveness at the Patriots showed for Brandon
Nyuk would be the same level of aggressiveness for Trent Williams.
He's not available. I don't think he's not available. Orlando

(58:40):
Brown interesting name if I'm the Bengals, though, one Amirius
Mims is extremely raw. He barely played in college and
I what like eleven career star's twelve career starts or
something like that at Georgia got hurt last year, Very
very raw, raw player. And we we know all about

(59:02):
Trent Brown and that experience.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
He just passes physically two days ago.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
We know all about it. Right, So the combination of
those two factors, a Orlando Brown is still the best
tackle they have on that team until further notice, until
Marius Mims realizes his potential. If you're the Bengals, you're
in a win now mode with Joe Burrow. You don't
know what t Higgins's future is. This is probably your
best year to push the chips all in the middle

(59:28):
of the table. I would be I would doubt that
they would want to move on from a guy like
Orlando Brown right now. He's their one known commodity.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
You can't count on Trent Brown. We've been down that
road here before. You can't count on them. So that's
my two cents on that bigger picture. Name the tackle. Like,
if you if you are sitting out there and you're
saying tackles a bigger need than wide receiver, why aren't
they pursuing tackles instead of Brandon Aiyuk? Tell me the tackle, Like,
tell me the tackle be available. That can be his

(01:00:01):
day one starting left tackle for this team. And I
will tell you either, Yeah, you're right that they should
make that move. But I'm telling you there's one name,
there's one name that I would monitor, and that's Garrett
Boles and Denver and even him is the same congress.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
They think bon Nix is gonna work.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
They're not gonna trade, oh god, dude, they do not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
But they have to think bo Nicks is gonna work.
They took him in the first round.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
That's fair. It's the same congress.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Objectively, if you just drafted a first round quarterback, even
though we both think he was far from a first
round quarterback. If you just drafted a first round quarterback
and they have no depth to tackle, they have nobody.
William Sherman is on their depth chart. Remember him?

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Oh yeah, he's like mister President not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Low on their depth chart. Do you actually remember who
that is?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Yeah, they draft the Patriots drafted he's not low on
their depth chart.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
They're not training garat pul No tackle is We just
talked about how there's a surplus of wide receivers. There's
the opposite tackle is the opposite you get good tackle?
They are not forget sixty four tackles good enough because
ever team needs too. I don't know if there's thirty
two starting caliber tackles in the NFL right now. It's
scarce you that one you have to do in the draft?
Will Campbell Calvin Banks that one's gonna have to be

(01:01:14):
in the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
YEP. I think we're in agreement on that all right.
But again, if you have a name like I threw out,
Garrett Boles is probably one of the only names that
I can think of off the top of my head.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Why do you think he'd be available?

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Like, you know, because because he's in a similar contract
situation as some of these other receivers that we're talking about,
where he's he's not like holding in or holding out
or anything like that. I don't think in Denver, but
he needs to be paid.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
So they're back up right now, if they move on
fro him, his gun named Matt Perk.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Name sounds familiar, but not for good reasons.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
M He started six NFL games.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Yeah, so I hear you. That's why. But that my
point is in bringing up Garrett Balls, if they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Have bo Nicks, if they were in the true rebuilding year,
they should be and it would make sense. But they're not. Yeah,
you're gonna try to make it work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
They're they're there's no name, like, there's no name. And
don't don't hit me with David Bottieri either, because but
David Baktiari is not playing football right now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Again, there's so few good tackles in the league. If David,
first of all, if Dave bok Terry could play, be
a Jet, he'd be with Rogers. Yeah, but like if
a team thought he could play, they'd bring him in
for workout because everybody, it's not just the Patriots, everybody's
desperate for tackles right now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Yeah. It just I'm not even trying to be a
jerk about it. Like maybe I'm not thinking of somebody
that somebody else can think of, because I can't think
of anybody right now that I've scoured the depth charts, like,
there's nobody that I can think of right now that
makes any sort of sense in terms of the team
wanting to part ways with the player and being available
via trade and all that kind of stuff. There's receivers

(01:02:45):
that are available potentially via trade. You Co is definitely available,
Lamb might be available eventually. Your guy DK Metcalf not
this year, but next offseason might be available. That happens. Ye,
Trent Williams is the last really good tackle that I
can think of that move a trade. It doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen. And the guys that hit free agency,

(01:03:05):
or you know, the mcglinche's and the Jowan Taylors and
like those types of players, not not Trent Williams, right, which.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
But that kind of player be an upgrade. And if
you want to go back to the offseason, say they
maybe should have paid somebody, we can have that argument,
but that doesn't really do anything, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Yeah, that's a great point. Like the other one is
obviously Jonah Williams. And you know why didn't they do that?
Ship is saled? Like I I agree with you. We
both said on this show that we would have went
after Jonah Williams. Yeah, in free agency, they didn't do it.
My guess is the reason why they didn't do it
is because they viewed him purely as a right tackle
and they thought that they had brought on Wennu back
to play right tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
I think because just the Packers thing they don't do
free agency.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
That could have been it too. All right, Ted is
in Wyoming? What's up? Ted?

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Hi?

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Guys? I love listening to your show.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
I was curious about some things about the Brandon a
discussion discussion I'd heard on one show someone saying that
he could contribute two more wins to the Patriots this season.
Who really cares about that? Winning four or winning seven?
And I'm wondering along those lines, if Elliott Wolf is

(01:04:14):
thinking a our target for being a contender is not
this year for sure, probably not twenty five. It's probably
twenty six, when May's in the third year of his
rookie contract. So we need to sign people, draft and
do everything in line to have a three year window
starting then to be a contender, which to me also

(01:04:37):
suggests that you don't sign expensive free agent now and
eat the first two years of the contract when you
really need those people in that three year period. I'm
just wondering what your thoughts on that are.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Yeah, thanks for the call, Ed. Yeah, we've been kicking
that idea around for weeks, right that when's the right
time to strike in the window and all that kind
of stuff. There's definitely a lot to what Ted is saying,
and he laid it out nicely there. I would just
say that when a player Brandon Nyuk's caliber becomes available
via trade, you still aggressively pursue the player, right. You

(01:05:12):
want as many good football players on the team as possible,
So it's not like you're gonna sit there and just
not call the forty nine ers. When a receiver like
that comes available. You're gonna still do it if you can.
But yeah, they realistically, I don't necessarily like looking at it,
of he would add two wins, he'd have three wins,

(01:05:33):
because it changes so many There's such a butterfly effect
of everything that goes into it that I think it's
hard to say in a vacuum this receiver would add
x amount of wins because one, don't you there's a
little bit of just like human element to it. Of

(01:05:57):
like if We came out to practice week for the
joint practice with the Eagles, and Brandon Nyuk was in
a Patriots practice Jersey. Don't you think that the whole
mantra around the team, the juice from the fans, the
confidence that all those that it all improves, right, Like,

(01:06:18):
everybody is gonna be jacked up for that second. I've
always subscribed to the fact that it's like an offensive hierarchy, right,
Like Brandon Nyuk puts everybody in the proper spot in
the pecking quarter. So it's not just taking his thirteen
hundred yards from the Niners last year and putting it
into the Patriots offense. He makes Pop Douglas better, He

(01:06:40):
makes Jalen Polk a little bit better, He makes Baker
a little bit better, he makes Hunter Henry a little
bit better. He makes your run game a little bit better. Right, Like,
all of these elements kind of improve just because now
you have, like this, this bona fide number one receiver
that it all funnels through and around. And that's why
I really felt like, if they could pull off this

(01:07:01):
trade this year, and granted this is a big if,
if they could have gotten just representable quarterback and line
play this year with this these skill players, I thought
they could have made the playoffs. And when I say that, yeah,
just keep in mind what that means now in today's NFL,

(01:07:21):
Like we talk about this off the air about baseball
all the time now too, Right, there's seven teams in
the AFC that make the playoffs. The Steelers were a
ten win team last year and made the playoffs. The
Patriots beat the Steelers with Bailey Zappy at the as
quarterback in a Thursday night game. Last year. The Packers
were nine to eight and made the playoffs in the NFC.
So I'm not sitting here and telling you that they're
gonna beat the Chiefs in the AFC Championship game because

(01:07:42):
they have Brandon Aiyuk. Just don't remember the gap between
the bad teams and like the mediocre teams, Like, really,
isn't that high, like a Patriots that much worse than
the Steelers were last year? Probably not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Yeah. I also just think you don't a bigger picture.
You don't want losing to become habitual. Yeah, Like they
had their down year last year, and maybe they took
their foot off the gas at the end and got
the draft pick and all that but you start going
on with that for two, three, four years and suddenly
forget how to get out of it. Yeah, and you
never want bad season. They're necessary sometimes a season like

(01:08:17):
that sometimes is necessary, but you want it to be isolated.
You shouldn't have to have multiple and so to say, well,
Brandon Ayuk adds a couple of wins, but we don't
want to go there yet. Nope. That's once you start
having that approach, get out. Somebody else has to run
the team. You should. You should be in there trying
to win as many games as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Yeah, I really, we all would have done it. They
just this was this was up to Brandon Nayuk, and
Brandon Nyke decided he didn't want to come here like that.
That's how I'm gonna look at it. That's how I feel.
A when question here from Kyle and the email about
Matthew Judon, and it is a good point to bring
up and then we can get into our three up,

(01:08:55):
three down to another call to Yes, lots of calls
and emails today. I appreciate it. Thank thanks for all this,
uh for the one hundred and first episode. Did I
say that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Already, I don't know if you did. But yeah, one
on one you knew it was the hundredth last week
you just did. It was a big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
No, I just totally well that's why I totally forgot.
But we appreciate it, like I we're we're messing around.
We obviously appreciate it. What do we calculate that's like
eight days of listening.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
It's over eight days, just eight point three days the
episode stop, it would be yeah, eight days, eight plus days.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
That's impressive. Yeah, we think. Thank you genuinely, I mean
it sincerely, Matthew Judon back to football. I think it's
time to trade. This is Kyle talking here. I think
it's time to trade Matthew Judin. No matter what you
get back, he is becoming a problem player and we
need to get rid of him before he starts to

(01:09:51):
affect the locker room negatively. I just want to say,
off the top of to this email, it bummed me
out watching him at the podium other day. Yeah, because
this has been a guy for three plus years that
has been jovial, excited to be here, wanting to recruit
other whether he's successful or not. I know we always

(01:10:12):
joke about it, you know, with his social media. But
he was a good patriot like Brandon. I yeah, right,
he was a fun guy to be around, brought a
ton of energy. I thought. I think he's great with
the fans. I think he's great dude to be around. Here.
He looked like a broken human being the other day.
And it's it's dunk to see like the life taken

(01:10:35):
out of him from this saga in this situation, And
that's not indicative of who Matthew Judon is. Like, that's
not Matthew Judon. We all know who, not that we're
best friends with him or anything, but we all know
what he's like around the facility and in press conferences
and and stuff like that. And that just wasn't him
in that press conference, right, and uh, And now it's

(01:10:57):
tough to see what I trade him for no matter what,
Like the email says, no matter what you get back now,
I would not do that. But we're at the point
now where we're at a real fork in the road
of either he needs to be here or he's not.
And by be here, I mean he needs to be
paid to, even if it's just a wet his beak

(01:11:18):
to make him happy. We're at the point where he
needs to be compensated or he needs to be gone.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Yeah, and I think this actually brings me another point.
I wanted to bring up the fallout of the Brandon
Ayuk thing and some of what's leaked. Yeah, if I'm
Matthew Judah, I'm sitting there saying, you were really give
this guy thirty million dollars. You're not that thirty million
dollars now just sitting there. I want a new contract.
What is Brandon Ayuk, who's never set foot in this facility,

(01:11:45):
dude to earn that thirty million that I and obviously
like Ayuk's a good player, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah,
there's money to be spent. There's money to be spent
on the roster that's now not being spent. Matthew Judain
sees that I would not be surprised that there's another
sort of something in lines of his contract issues, in
the fallout of this the other thing. And there's a

(01:12:07):
lot of unknowns here, but it's just something that crossed
my mind. Part of that report was that the trade
in place involved Kendrick Bourne. Yeah, any time anytime you
have a player come up in trade rumors, there's a
conversation that needs to be at because you're essentially saying
you don't want that guy. On top of that, Kendrick

(01:12:27):
Bourne just signed a new contract with his team six
months ago. Yeah, and there in certain leagues you're not
allowed to trade players you re signed within a certain
period of time. In the NFL you can, but nobody
does it because it sends a really bad message to
the player and honestly to the agent. The agent's are
part of this because now he has to go back
to his clients right and tell his clients that they

(01:12:48):
should trust your team when you know, how do they
know that you're not going to be the next one?
And they just signed all these guys to extensions and
they're gonna be looking at I thought I was getting
some security. We kept hearing to Von gottschat talk about
that security. I thought I was getting some security by
signing this extension. I might have to move. I might
have to drop it all and move at any given time.
So maybe they talked out with Kendrick Borne ahead of time.

(01:13:09):
Maybe he's good with it, Maybe they cleared it with
his agent. All that it It needs to be addressed
and it won't happen publicly, and we won't know the
outcome of this, but trading, putting a player in a
trade request that just signed a contract is a dangerous, dangerous,
dangerous game. And you hope because that, to me, could

(01:13:32):
be more of an issue in the locker room than
than the Juda and stuff I go back to and
it's apples and oranges a little bit because it's different leagues.
But you remember last summer when the Celtics put Malcolm
Brogden in the original Marcus Smart trade and it fell
through and what happened Marcus Malcolm Brogna said, you know what, fine,
you don't want me to trade me?

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Oh yeah, they had, and then they had.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
To trade him because he was involved in that He
had I think he had recently signed like when that
trade happened. When he got traded the Celtics, I think
it was a new contract or something. So like, I
don't mean to sound the alarm about it. I don't know.
And Kendrick Bourne is the guy that would just be
like cool with it because he's just such a chill
guy and what's best with the team. But that's the
guy that's talked about wanting to be a part of
the rebuild, want to help turn things around. He's also

(01:14:15):
probably your best receiver as things stand right now, assuming
he comes back from that knee.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
That I.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
My eyebrow went up when I saw Kendrick Bourne reported
as part of that. That is something I imagine the
Patriots did not want out there unless the deal got done,
and it is. It is going to be a challenge
for Gerrodmeo and Nelly Wolf. This is an early challenge
for this new regime.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
The only I agree with everything he said. Yeah, The
only possible way that this doesn't fester into something bigger
is he's played it in San Francisco before with Kyle
Shanahan their Super Bowl team. He's already paid, like in
his shoes. You could look at it as Kenrick Bourne

(01:14:57):
and say, as much as I want to be here
and be a part of this and try to turn
things around here, it's a pretty good situation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
But it's also did they have that conversation with him
when it was first floated or did he learn like
we did the other night right like there? Maybe he
was Maybe they went and said, look, we.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
You know they want a receiver back that can play
this year for them, right, we.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Need a guy that's that's gonna be a little bit younger,
not coming off the injury, a little more explosive, like
we're setting like we're sending you somewhere you're familiar, you know,
and maybe he signs off on it, but we don't know.
I'm sure he'll be asked about it. We don't know,
but it's it's an awkward conversation. And Drod Meta said
the other day he had a good conversation with Kendrick Borne.
But that's it's not just Kendrick Boorne. It's on one hand,

(01:15:42):
other guys in the locker room, other guys who just
signed extensions who now understandably maybe looking over their shoulder
whenever trade conversations come up. And it's also I don't
know actually who Kendrick Bourne's agent is, but when you're
dealing with that agent and that agency in the future,
it's going to be, well, you know, my player wants
to play for you, how do I we need a
little something more here? Because his agency is disruptive sports.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Yeah, they have a few Patriots receivers that are clients,
do they Okay, I know Taekwon's a client of theirs
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
I think so, but it's more pending for agent clients
or guys that want to you know, re signed in
the future. That all right, well, you're you're committing to
my guy, but how do we know you're really committing
to my guy?

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Yeah? Yeah, last point on on Judan, because I think
you laid out the Born stuff nicely. The Judon thing
Dad needs to be resolved one way or another. It's
gone too far at this point. And now I'm not
necessarily as worried about as the emailer about the locker
room and all. I'm not worried. I'm just worried about

(01:16:44):
Matthew Judon. Like he's either he's still got good football
left in him. He's a great player. It's either going
to be here or someplace else. But we're at the
point now where the season's right around in the corner.
They need to make a decision, and he's He says
he's gonna play under the current contract because he has
no choice, which to an extent he doesn't because he

(01:17:07):
needs to play well to be paid next off season
because he's coming off the injury. So that that's fair,
But you don't want to put a player out there
that's this unhappy with the situation and for every Brandon
I you g rumor and all this kind of stuff.
There's money going out of Foxborough right now and it's
not going to Matthew Judon and and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
How does he not say that as a slight Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Absolutely, all right. Kendall is in North Carolina. What's up? Kendall?

Speaker 7 (01:17:34):
Hey, how you guys doing good?

Speaker 4 (01:17:37):
All?

Speaker 7 (01:17:37):
Right? Things? I want to ask you how you think
the wide receiver de charge is going to shake out?
What'll safe out between now and week one and number two?
Have y'all seen enough Javon Baker that he could possibly
possibly be the start X wide receiver.

Speaker 4 (01:17:52):
Appreciate it?

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Yeah, thanks for the call, Kendall. Good question. H I'm
working on preliminary roster projection. Obviously tomorrow night might change
few things. But I'll give you my six guys right
now that I have at receiver. Obviously we have Pop Douglas,
Jayvon Baker, Jalen pol kJ Osborne, I'm ready with I'm
there for you with KG Osborne, right, we're on the

(01:18:14):
same page now with him. kJ Osborne's on this team.
So Pop Douglas, Baker, Osborne and now for right now,
depending on what happens with Kendrick Bourne obviously with his situation.
If he's off pupp then this changes things. If he isn't,
then then I'm sticking with this six. I'm kipping both
Rigger and Taekwon for now because I feel like those
two guys are going to be in a never ending

(01:18:37):
loop of position battle of who's gonna get on the
field each week to be the speed guy, right like
the vertical stretch element to the offense. So I have
both those guys on, which would mean that like guys
like Juju and Kashan Boody are cut off the team
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
So Kishan Boody, excuse me. Kashan Boody has had a
good couple of practices year. Yes, he's pop more on
my radar, and it's taekwonk and be healthy at the
start of season.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Good question, And it's definitely still up in the air
with those two guys obviously. You know, well, I'll probably
do one more before before the actual cutdown day in
terms of projection, and I'm not ready to write this
in Sharpe yet, but my my thing with Kaishan Boody
is that his skill set is so redundant to the

(01:19:22):
other guys that they have on the roster, whereas at
least with Rager and Taekwon, they bring a different element
than the other players. Like if everyone just assume everybody's
healthy for a second, right, how does kaish On Boody
get on the field over Born Polk and Baker and Osborne?

(01:19:42):
All four of those guys play exactly the same style
essentially as him, like similar body type, similar roles, everything.
So there's basically four guys in his way in that role.
I just don't see how he gets on the field.
And yeah, if you can, if you want to make
the argument that they're keeping him off the on the
roster because the developmental upside and things like that, fine,

(01:20:03):
But now we're in year two, Like, how long are
you going to keep a guy because he might be
the guy that we saw in lsu A as a freshman, right, well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
I mean, why are you gonna keep Taekwon and Rager?
Neither of those guys. It's this again, it's the same
skill set, and you can probably get Rager on the
practice squad Taikwon I practice.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Yeah, I think Taekwon is more likely on the practice
squad than Rager.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
So my points, you can get one on the practice
squad Booty you might lose. I think having depth would
be good. I don't know. I think it's pretty even
right now between them. I wouldn't keep Taekwon and Rager.
That's redundant. You can definitely get one of those guys
on the practice squad if you want to keep them
both in the building at that point, I would get
you to give the row spot to Booty or give
it to like another corner or alignment or something.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Yeah, I could see maybe only carrying five. My argument
with with Rager and Taekwon both making it is more
that it's been they've been kind of trading off, like
when who's hot and who's not. Like right now, I
would say that Rager has has been okay the last
couple of days. Then like Taekwon had like, you know,
a stretch there where he was making some plays and

(01:21:06):
then Rager and the non padded practices probably stood out
a little, you know what I mean, Like it keeps
see sawing back and forth. Right, So I wonder if
that battle just continues throughout the season and it's almost
like riding the hot goalie, right, it's like you ride
the hot hand of like which speed guy is the
guy that's you know, popping in practice and is you
know playing well on Sundays and all that kind of stuff.

(01:21:27):
I just think that they're The way that I look
at it is that they might lean a little bit
more towards true speed, yeah, and dynamic you know speed
than a guy like Keishawan Boody. And the other thing
with Booty that I've noticed at least is that he's,
you know, some of the catches that he's made, like
are not against Christian Gonzales and Jonathan Jones and you know,

(01:21:49):
guys that are gonna be here in terms of cornerbacks.
So let's see what he does, you know again some
better corners, Like maybe he does earn some reps, but
we always talk about who's on what field or what
group or whatever, and Booty has been pretty regularly with
like the threes, you know, or maybe like a couple
of two's reps here and there too. So I don't

(01:22:10):
think he's trending upwards in that sense, as you could
tell on that list, Juju Smith Schuster is not. He's not.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Yeah, he's not close.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
No, not close to the second question, with Javon Baker
starting X receiver, just the second one into our our
ups and downs.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Do take the last call?

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
You want to take the last call? Do that?

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
That's kind enough to wait this song?

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
That's fair. Hassan is in Springfield? What's up to the son?

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
How you doing?

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
Going back to that question about the off linement, there's
guys like lend me Tunzel, you know, Tristan wars so
On Armstead, Jordan Malata Sewell, there's guys like that that
even though they have their contracts, there's still out the
debt that we can go after.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Yeah, Hassan, I mean you think the Lions are going
to trade penny stool to the Patriots? Like realistically, Like
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just like realistic.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
No, no, no, no, yeah, I know say no. But you know,
so like three first rounders in there?

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Yeah, I mean I like, yeah, yeah, I mean, I
hear you, Hissan, thank you for the call. I'm not
trying to be an a whole, but yes, if you
threw three first round picks at a team, you know,
at uh at the Texans for Larmie Tunzel, would they
maybe pick up the phone and listen like possible, right,
but that's not realistic.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
You better have every other piece in place when you
make that move. And this team doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
No, I mean you're not You're not making that move right. Uh.
You know, Tristan WARF's literally just signed a record breaking
extension like three days ago. Like, he's not going anywhere.
Penny Stools maybe other than Trent Williams is probably the
second best tackle in football. He's not going anywhere, right.
Laramie Tunzel is a top ten tackle in the NFL
on a team that's trying to win. Yeah, so he's

(01:24:01):
not going anywhere. I hear you. We're all trying to
look for tackles. I get it. But once you start
to get into this, yes, if you call the team
that maybe is in that middle category, you know, and
you find the team as a starting tackle, you like,
that's sort of in the middle, you know. I saw.
I did briefly check it on the chat. Like a
guy like Jedrick Wills from the Cleveland Browns. He was

(01:24:23):
probably near towards near the end here, closer to the
end in the beginning. But if you called the Browns
right now and you gave them a if you overpaid
for the player, could you convince them to take it? Yeah?
Maybe right, Like if you're giving up like a second
round pick for him, which is a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
You're doing the rams thing at that point where you're
just blowing through all the picks to add players. But
you have to have enough of a core in place,
and they don't. Somebody also in the tweeted at us
about Jack conklin Ya that team's got to win. They
gave to Shawn wattson all that money, and you know,
Stefanski just kind of blew out half his staff to
save his own ass. Like they're not moving on from

(01:25:00):
tackles right now.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
All right, let's get into three up, three down. I look,
I I wish that they could trade for Penny Seol,
like you know, I wish he was available.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
That's just great, a lot of problems.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
That's not the world we're living, all right, where I like,
I like. I like to say we're a positive show.
So I'm gonna start with the ups. Okay, Okay, my
number one up and this is we're calling this from
padded practices. Is that what we're doing?

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah, because last time we did a show it there's
been a padded practice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
Yeah, they've been I think the first couple are but
sure padded practice. Yeah, whatever, last week or whatever you
want to call it. Number one up Hunter Henry. I
think Hunterry has been great. Uh He's come alive here
in this like second week camp, making some plays down
the field, which I think this this av got fans
game in my head. This a VP offense. I you know,

(01:25:47):
you'll get David and Joku. He's not David and Joku.
He's not that explosive of an athlete, but they tend
to target tight ends maybe a little bit further down
the field than other teams. Do you know this isn't
like quick three yard slants all the time. Although he's
had a those, you know, beating up linebackers in the
middle of the field. I still feel like when we
watch one on ones and things like, his red zone
work is still phenomenal. I think he's gonna be a

(01:26:09):
big deal in the red zone still if they have
the quarterback play for it. I look at Hunter Henry,
I think he's been good. There's been some questions of
you know, twenty nine years old, getting up there in
age a little bit, like how much does he have
left in the tank. He looks spry, he looks explosive
out there. I thought he's been good this last week.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
I think it's been cool him and I feel like
him and Jalen Hawkins have had a ton of battles
in this camp. Yeah, and he's probably gotten Hawkins. Warren
Hawks has gotten him, but Hawkins has gotten him a
few times. For a team that's had trouble covering tight ends,
Hawkins sticking with him has been encouraging. But yeah, Henry's
looked good. All right, we got I wanted to try
not to overlap, but since you didn't drop this guy first,

(01:26:46):
Mike and Winno. Yeah, he's been the best player camp. Yeah,
and it's only gotten better as the pads have come on,
and boy do they need it. But one on ones,
team drills, whatever you want to call it. I mean,
he's just been dominant.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
The one on one stuff is I've never seen anything
like it. And granted is I'm not I say this
all the time. I haven't been covering the team for
thirty years, right, so I don't go back to like
Matt Light and Logan Mankins and those guys, but he
is legitimately unbeatable. Like you cannot get around him in
one on one. He just with a one handed, right

(01:27:18):
handed punch to Keon White's chest, dropped Keon White to
the ground with like a forearm shiver. That's a two
hundred and eighty five pound just gigantic athlete that he
just tossed like a rag doll to the ground. He's
been phenomenal. I was worried a little bit about his
weight when we came into training camp. That seemed to
be a little bit of a concern there maybe why

(01:27:40):
he's playing inside and not outside right now. But I
don't I don't think it's matter even a little bit,
Like I figure out what's going on around him right
But I concur I had him on my ups last week,
so I wanted to name some different guys this week.
But I concurrent he's been the best player in camp.
Who is number two on your list?

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
Keon White who outside of that one rep against Mike
when Win who has also been really freaking good, which
makes it all the more impressive for Mike o on
Win who. But you talk about a guy who looks
poised for like a year or two jump, Yeah, Yeah,
he's he's been a wrecker in the run game. He's
been effective as a pass rusher. There's definitely he's playing
just a lot more confident. He kind of talked about this.

(01:28:21):
I think it was last week when he spoke that
last year he was more just focused on not messing
up his assignment. This year he's more, folks, it's more
of an aggressive attacking mentality and you see that in
practice when he's on the field.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
So he's been good. Yeah, his issues he played tight
end in college for a while, then he flipped over
to defense, and even though he was a super senior,
he didn't play a ton of defense at the college level,
and so all of his issues were like block recognition, instincts,
hand placement, like getting off blocks. He's a freak athlete,

(01:28:53):
like he has all the athleticism and all the upside
in the world, but it was a lot of just
like learning nuances and like getting up the speed with
the game. So if you can add that element to
just the freak raw athleticism, then you're gonna have a
player on your hands. And that's the leap that he's
trying to make. Now. The one thing I'll say about

(01:29:14):
Kean White, because I'm not you know, I'm not the
biggest keyon white guy. The biggest thing that I see
with him is that I worry about the sack production
and like the true finishing he can disrupt. He's gonna
be a wrecking ball and I think that idea that'll
translate against the run. But is he just Anthony Jennings
or is he like something more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
I think he's like a better version of Anthony Jennings.
I think the idea is because Jennings is as much
of a penetrator as he is. Yeah, And I think
the idea is he's gonna flush in the past rush.
He's gonna flush. He's gonna chase towards the finisher on
the other side with that, hopefully Matthew Judain, but if
not josh Ucha or maybe you know, down the road

(01:29:55):
they had a guy. But I think he's more that
because he can get into quick and then set it
up for somebody on the other side to finish. And
you know, if we're not seeing it because Matthew Judon
hasn't been out there a ton and you don't really
scheme up this way in training camp, he's gonna be
more effective when Matthew Judon's on the other side, He's
gonna be getting more one on ones and we know

(01:30:16):
he can he can win strongly in that regard and
it'll allow him to be a little more effective as
a finisher.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
There's no doubt in my mind that he can be
that he can cause havoc. Yeah, but there's a difference
between havoc and production, right, Like maybe it's like havoc
like Trey Flowers used to cause havrick where Trey Flowers
would be one of those guys that if you looked
at PFF and their pressure numbers and their hurry numbers
and all that kind of stuff, he was like top ten,
top fifteen amongst edge rushers. Maybe that's Keon White, which

(01:30:42):
is totally fine. But if Judon and Barmore both out
of this defense, then who's going to sack the quarterback? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
That's sacking the quarterbacks? How you get off the field
on third down? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
Well, that that's where you know, we'll we'll get to
next offseason. And yeah, it's still a work in progress.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
Yeah, front these are the things that like with this team,
you start to peel back the onions and you know,
the layer of the onion, and you realize like, oh, okay,
this is why this team is not.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
Playing, This is why you don't trade three picks for
yeah right these.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
Yeah, exactly all right? I can't wait for this one.
My second of you ready for this?

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Is it a quarterback?

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
No? But there is a quarterback on my list.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
The quarterback straightment. I don't know who is it?

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Taekwon Chad Ryland? Really, I feel like child Ryland's been
pretty good? Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
You don't watch the kickers.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
I feel like Chad Ryland's been better than Joey Sly He.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
I wouldn't say that it's close. He has one more
make but sly hit of a live kick the fifty
seven yard of the run on I had the kickers overall?
Is the downs it?

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Really?

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
And so you still think this is an issue? Yeah,
it's I put Chad Ryland on here just to mess
with you. I'm not going I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
So you didn't watch the kickers, you're not even neither.
I don't feel overly confident either one like they've I
don't think they've both sucked, but nobody's like really claimed
the job. And yeah, the game's gonna be big, But
there's yesterday is probably their best day. They each had
to miss me. Yesterday's probably their best day. But hasn't

(01:32:11):
been convincing from either one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
I just feel like, maybe maybe I'm strictly going onf vibes,
but they like competition, does seem to have like pushed
him maybe a little bit, Like It's not like he's
been awful.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
No, neither one of them has been awful. But neither
one of them has been great either. And I think
you were kind of hoping. I don't feel so yesterday, right,
the live kick Jacob Rissett, there's a I forget what happened.
I think it was a sack something. This is a
live one minute Trail's a sack. Maybe is a false start.
They're in fourth and long hits kJ Osborne over the middle,

(01:32:44):
like really good thrown catch Osborne up over two defenders
on a fourth. All right, so you keep going, but
at this point there's time off the clock that keep moving.
They end up with a fifty three yard field goal.
He misses wide left.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Okay, can I give you my reel up now? Because
I was just messing with well I well, all right,
so we'll get back to I I couldn't help myself.
I thought you were did you are you like Brian Hines,
do you like sneak like behind the goalpost, because the
other day, I swear to God I saw and I'm
sorry Brian, but I just have this is just too funny.
I saw him like go to the into like the

(01:33:16):
fan section so that he could see the get a
better view, and security came up to him because they
thought that he was a fan that was just like
trying to sneak onto the field when he came back
into the media area. So how because where I sit,
when we sit up on the ramps, you can't tell
if the kicks going in or not. You just can't.
Are you texting Brian right now? It was too funny.

(01:33:39):
I thought he was gonna get booted.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
Went when he was over there by the goalpost when
he was walking back to the media.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
When he's walking back to the media ten that some
security guy kid went right up to him and was like,
I need to see your creditial So he.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Walks in front through the crowd. I walked through the
back where like that it's easier to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
No me, like where Badard sits?

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
Yeah, me, Brian, Mike Kadlick sometimes Taylor and Mike Reese
all go over to watch the field goals every time.
That's what we do.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
I give you, I give you props I do.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
And we're like, we compare notes and we make sure
if the distance is right, because the thing you have
the better angle on. I've texted you for this once
or twice. It is tough to see from our angle,
especially when they're not using the change, not where the bar,
where the balls spotted, what the yard line is. But no,
we we all go over there because you can't see otherwise,
I know, and we're right behind it, and we get
a really good view. And when they miss, like we're

(01:34:28):
all we call it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
That's awesome. That's I'm a little jealous. I am.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
If you ever come down from your perch and watch
practice on the common folk, you could join us and
I meet I've met Catch. Actually, this is funny. I've
met Catch twenty two listeners down there because you are
in the crowd. And some guy came up to me
the other day and goes like he comes up and
he goes, hey, Evan, and I'm in the middle, like
as I get ready to kick and I'm like, yeah, hey,

(01:34:56):
it's Alex, and like he starts laughing and I I
need to have felt like I blew him off because
I'm trying to watch the kicks, like we're trying to
count the artist where they're spotting the ball. So I
go up to him after they're done kicking. I just
go up to him. You're still standing, and I was like, hey,
nice to meet you, Like, I didn't really mean to
blow you off, like I just I was focusing on
the kicks, and he goes, no, I'm sorry, like I thought,

(01:35:17):
you know, I was joking calling you Evan, and I
was like I kind of figured you were, but it
happens enough that I'm never really sure. But I don't
remember the fans name. But I appreciate you saying hi,
I appreciate listening to the show. I did not mean
to blow you off. I apologize came across like that
and I did. It took me a second. I did
understand you were joking.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
Okay, that's enough on the kickers my real second up here. Yeah,
kJ Osborne, he's been really good. kJ Osborne's come alive.
You know. I was like on the fence a little
bit about it didn't really see it quite yet, but
he's come alive. He's made some plays down the field.
Just one of those guys that's just like a sturdy, size,
speed type of player, perfect fit for what they want

(01:35:56):
to do. Because I'm sure he can block a little
bit too. I haven't really studied, you know, film yet
of it, so we'll see in games in terms of
blocking and things like that. It's much easier to tell.
But you know, you can see that he's got comfortability
in this system because it's a lot of overlap from
what he was doing in Minnesota when he started talking
about base receivers. Not necessarily like the most flashiest of guys,

(01:36:17):
but just the guy on first in ten, not the
twenty five who's gonna be on the field when the
Patriots come to play Week one against the Bengals. Osborne
I think is going to be in that mix because
he brings all those elements to it. He can line
up in multiple spots, he can play on the outside,
he can block, he can run routes down the field.
He's been impressive. He's been much better and has really

(01:36:38):
come on here in the second week.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Yeah, he looks really good. He could play a sneaky
big role for this team because when we get to
week one, Kendrick Bourne is not ready to start the
season pop Douglas is. He's gonna be good, but his
role is going to be what it is like, he's
not gonna be a full time on the field player.
And the rookies will look good with their rookies and
you'd like to be able to ease them in. Yeah,
that leaves kJ Osborne is kind of the guy to
start things off for Jacoby Brisset. I don't think it'll

(01:37:01):
stay that way, Like the rookies will emerge, Kendrick Bourne
will come back, but he could be their most targeted
receiver through the first month or so.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
Agreed early on in the year. It definitely feels like
Osbourne pop. And then you know, whether Bourne is healthy
or not will be a question. But like Osborne pop
and then maybe even like Rager or Thornton has like
the speed guy on the outside. I know that fans
are gonna hear that and be like, like, we want
to see the rookies and be disappointed in this, but

(01:37:29):
don't be surprised if you see quite a bit of
those guys. Polk might be the one exception, like he
might be able to crack the top three instantly just
because of how steady he is. But Osbourne and Bourne
are gonna play a lot for this team this year,
and so I would just prepare for that. Who's your
number three down?

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
Number three down? Ups or down? I just I just
lost track there. So I just because I this is
I don't know that these have been like the best,
you know, some of the three best, But I want
to give these guys mention because they deserve it, especially
going to the preseason game. Two udfas that have stood
out to me running back Terrell Jennings, safety Dell Pettis.
They've been all over the field. Jennings runs really.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
Hard, got a little wiggle to him too.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
Great motor. Yeah, did did have a nice spin move
the other day. And he's gonna be a preseason beast.
He I mean, I'm putting it like Nobody's Ralph Webb,
but that's kind of just about to say Ralph Nobody's
Ralph Webb. But he's he's gonna, you know, get.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
The greatest preseason player of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
Did he even ever end up on a practice squad?

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
I think he was on a practice squad. I think
he bounced around some teams.

Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
But you know, with these guys, with these udfas especially,
you know we're post to Bill Belichick era where you
could count on a guy making it and in a
weaker UDFA class, and these two guys too, their positions,
there's a lot of depth ahead of them. You just
got to kind of play with energy and to get noticed,
and that's what you got to do. And I think
Terrell Jennings Ralph Webb is on a few practice squads
and in the CFL.

Speaker 2 (01:38:56):
Come on, he didn't know that, No, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
I'm a surprised as you. Terrell Jennings has done kind
of what you want from UDFA to stand out in
that spot and practice squad candidate. We know you always
need running back depth, right, and maybe he gets on
the practice squad and comes along later on. Del Pettis
sort of same thing, flying around the secondary. He had
a pass break at the other day, Hunter Henry, I
think it was Saturday. Yeah, Hunter Henry was like unguardable

(01:39:22):
the whole day except this one play in eleven on
eleven read live like two minute, del Pettis clamped him
in the end zone. And knocked the ball away, and
he's bent the live tackling period he was hitting and
he made a couple tackles, and again there's safety depth.
And I don't know if there's a spot from on
the roster, but practice squad comes up later. These are

(01:39:42):
just two guys to watch in the preseason game because
there they've They deserve recognition for what they've done, because
they've approached this the right way, being in a position
where there's not a clear or even unclear path to
a ross spot. And they're probably more camp bodies, but
they've made themselves known fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
It's a good shout. I would lean towards Trel Jennings
being on the team right now. I just feel like
when I was doing the roster projection, and granted a
lot could change if you know, he bombs tomorrow night,
but wouldn't you almost prefer in some and most spots
for them to go like youth and ceiling or upside
over like no offense meaning towards this, but like Jamichael Hasty, Yeah,

(01:40:24):
for example, you know what Jamichael Hasty is in the
league right Like he's at best like a Brandon Bolden
type that's gonna play in the kicking game and is
an emergency running back and like that kind of thing,
whereas Terrell Jennings might have something.

Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
Well, I don't know, Hasty's a little more than that.
He's he's you know, quicker, he can catch the ball.
They don't really have that pass catching back well I Gibson,
I guess they have depth there. I would more like
it too. If we want to go the other way,
like Joshua Bled's over Stale Pettis.

Speaker 2 (01:40:52):
Yeah, I mean either way is fine, and you know,
or even Marte Mapu. At this point, it needs to
get on the field. Uh yeah, we'll get to Mark Well,
he just needs to get on the field. We'll get
to Martiopum. Yeah, Douce has a great nick name for him.
But I'll tell you off the air, Okay. I just
really feel like Terrell Jennings is. I feel like I
feel myself in all spots of the roster, even at

(01:41:14):
quarterback like with Milton and Zappi. Right, like just the
youth in the upside. It needs to trump veteran at
this point, right like needs to And I'm not talking
about like keeping Jehean Bell over Hunter Henry. I'm talking
about Like, if it's a battle between Jamichael Hasty and
Terrell Jennings, I'm going Terrell Jennings. If it's a battle
between Milton and Zappie, I'm going Milton right. Like those

(01:41:37):
types of spots, and I feel like there's like four
or five of those coin tosses. I'll give you another
one cornerback. I'm going Marcella's Dial Isaiah Bolden over Marco
Wilson Sean wade because I just know Marco Wilson and
Sean Wadeer are back into the roster guys in the NFL.
There might be some upside there with Bolden and Dial Dial.

(01:41:59):
I think has been okay.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Put Alex Saustin in that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
I still have him on the team. But we'll get
to him in a second. My did you give all
three of your euro ups?

Speaker 1 (01:42:08):
I had one more on here in case we overlapped. Yeah,
Trod Mayo coaching up. I just think there was a
lot of talk about, you know, player friendly. How is
that gonna be?

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
I'm glad you brought this up.

Speaker 1 (01:42:23):
Yep, he might be player friendly in the locker room.
We've heard about the like the ping pong table and
things like that. Yeah, he is drilling these guys. These
have been long, intense practices, hot days, eleven on eleven,
live tackling. Yeah, he's not taking it easy on him
on the field, and I think this team needs that
and I think that's good. And when I say Trod Mayo,

(01:42:45):
it's the coaching staff as a whole. It's not just
him scripting these. But yeah, to get from day one
right into eleven on eleven, no nonsense, and it's it's NonStop.
It's two plus hour practices just about every day. Does
this mean he's gonna be a good coach? Does this
mean he's the guy post Bill Belichick? I don't know.
It's still way too early. It's a small thing, but

(01:43:07):
if we're at right now, I didn't think they were
gonna drow him this hard.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
I've been impressed that this has been. I would say,
I don't want to. You know, it's been seven years now,
so I can't. I'd have to go back and really
look at like twenty nineteen, right, Like, I don't remember
off the top of my head the last couple of
Bill Belichick training camps, though this has been a more
intense physical training camp much. You know, we used to

(01:43:34):
talk about like has Bill gone soft? Right? Like, you
know they'd be at a pad some days, they wouldn't
be tackling to the ground. That's not very common. Tackling
the ground is not very common league wide, like let
alone just Bill versus Girod. The other thing is, you know,
we were talking to him the other day before practice
and somebody asked him about this, like what was with
the live tackling, Like what's the theory? Was the the

(01:43:55):
mindset there? And he said something about getting them for
it in games, But he also said that it's for
evaluation purposes because to him, it's like, if you're a
defensive player yet, it's all well and good to tap
the guy on the button on his way by, but
if you don't tackle him to the ground, how do
I know if you can actually do it right? And

(01:44:16):
I thought that was impressive too, because it's like this
is an evaluation thing for him that he wants to
see who is a real football player, not who's great
in shorts and shells or whatever, who can play football,
who can play actual tackle football? And uh, and I
didn't expect that out of him. I thought this was
going to be what we have seen in other places

(01:44:39):
in Miami Philly, you know the rams, right, like, yeah,
kind of country club vibes.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Right, Nope, No, maybe that's going on behind the scenes. Again.
I know a lot of people got freaked out about
that player's lounge or whatever. Yeah, they've they've they've earned
the players lounge based on these practices. I don't think
it's a stretch to say that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
All right, downs, Yeah, my number one down is the
entire offensive tackle situation.

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Can we just say the line?

Speaker 2 (01:45:06):
No, I think the interior line is is gonna be Okay.
I think On when Andrews City So is solid. But
the depth I mean Marte Mofu Mafi and Tony Mafiy
can't get a snap off. Okay, But I.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
All right, sorry, it's here's tackles.

Speaker 4 (01:45:19):
Tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
No just in season though, because I'm actually kind of
bullish on the interior, Like I think, I think City
Andrews and On when it was a really good start
to an interior of an offensive line like could actually
be almost a plus. I would say for them offensively,
those are three good players. And there nick Levert's okay,
as like a swing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:37):
Back up good depth player.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
Yeah, and then Leyden Robinson will be here and hopefully
he develops into a guy too. So I don't think
you have to go all the way down to Mafi
is my point? Right? Or like you know your guy
Michael B. Jordan or whatever, Right, we don't.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Have to call Jordan. Why are you doing that?

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Because he's not Michael Jordan.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
I but he's not Michael B. Jordan either.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
The whole tackle situation is a dumpsterfy. It's a dumpster fire.
You first of all, chooks a corp for who's like
the one guy that has NFL tape for an extended period,
like a high volume of starting caliber NFL tape has
been in in you know, sweatpants right the last couple

(01:46:17):
of days. He's not healthy. He's not out there. Canon
Wallace has, after a good start to PADS, has sort
of waned a little bit. I think he's going through
the rookie growing pains right now, and maybe we need
to pump the brakes a little bit on him. He's
had some rough reps in one on ones. He was
better in Eleven's yesterday. I felt like that stood out
to me. But we started, you know, PADS with him

(01:46:40):
being at at left tackle, and we were I myself included,
like I was very excited about it. Yeah, we're We're not.
We're a long ways away from that right now with him,
and you're starting tackles right now in team periods of
Vederian Lowe and Calvin Anderson. If you had told me
that Vederian low was going to make this team to
start camp, I would have told you no, right like
I would have had him off the roster. And now

(01:47:01):
there's a chance, I mean, granted, there's a couple of
weeks left here and we're not there yet, but there's
a chance that a Darian Low's gonna start for this
team at left tackle against the Bengals in Week one
with Trey Henderson coming off his left edge. Like, good luck,
good luck. That's not good. That can't happen. So one
of two things needs to happen. One, they need to

(01:47:21):
pull a rabbit out of their hat and find an
external solution. Right, you know, we have to call her
call in and say go off for the Detroit Lions.
Three first round picks for Penny Suel. That's not happening, right,
But you understand what I'm saying, Yeah, maybe we're not
thinking of a name that exists. Go get them number two.
They need to get Keden Wallace back to being on

(01:47:42):
the fast track. Whatever it takes, right, Like, I don't
know what it takes. I'm not Scott Peters, I'm not
an offensive line coach. But get him up to get
him ready because he's gonna have to play early, or
I guess there's three number three, Mike on one of
who's been the best player in camp? Is it? Can
they get by with Nick Levet or Laden Robinson at

(01:48:03):
right guard to the point where he can play right
tackle and then maybe you're only worrying about one tackle spot.
Maybe Chukes goes back over to left for the time
being and you go with that line instead. They I
can't imagine that they're looking at a Darian Lowe and
Calvin Anderson and loving what they're seeing. It just would
be impossible to say that. So the whole situation is

(01:48:23):
a mess, as we knew it would be.

Speaker 1 (01:48:25):
Right, No, we're here two weeks in a camp. Jod
Mayo has said, like the timeline for them wanting to
know their starting offensive line is the second preseason game,
So basically in a week, it doesn't feel like they've
made any progress. No, it all still feels wide open chokes.
The corps four will be somewhere, assuming he's healthy. Right,

(01:48:45):
That's pretty much as much as I can say to
finli Ley at this point. Hopefully the game hads some
clarity for Darien Low goes out there and play poorly,
that should be the sign, all right, we gotta get
Kane Wallace ready. He goes out there and plays well,
all right, maybe given another week.

Speaker 2 (01:48:57):
But I felt like we had some moments him there.
The first three or four padded practices were okay. The
short yardage practice was terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
I don't know why they dropped Kiten Wallace out of
the top group.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
So the theories are one, they it wasn't as good
as we all thought it was, which is definitely possible.
Right Number two, is there a chance that they wanted
to give Drake May at least something on the line
that was starting caliber, right, Like maybe they felt like,
all right, let's just get.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
Them a pack. Such a weird because it's the reps.
Are the reps though? I get that, but no, but
they're not because you want to build continuity.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
That's fair, So that's fair. It's been bad and they
haven't run the ball very well. The last handful of
practices that's kind of gone away. Yeah, after a good start.
The pass pro is okay, Like it's not as bad
as I think it would be, but I'm still marking
down pressures more times than I would like. It's been
bad and they need to I would say they need

(01:50:00):
to figure it out, but I just I don't even
know what.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
I don't know how they know this is. And it
goes to the Drake May timeline. Right, They're still gonna
be working well and in the season will find their
best five at this point because I don't want to
say they've wasted time. Guys have been hurt, but there's
they've lost a lot of time moving things around so far.
Yep a right, what do you got, uh for the downs? Yes,
so just kind of grouping together the players that needed

(01:50:22):
to get on the field that haven't been on the field. Yeah, Martin,
Marte Mapu, Taekwon Thornton. Those are really two big ones. Yes,
I don't think I'm missing I mean I guess the
core four like, yeah, and it's not down. Oh they suck,
Like I don't want to pick on guys for being hurt,
but you can't make the club from the tub and
talk about Marte Mopoo. We've seen Jalen Hawkins get a
ton of reps. Del Pettis is coming on. Is he

(01:50:43):
getting passed? Taekwon? Thornton had built that momentum and now
he's dealing with a soft tissue issue. He hates saying
that he's limited. Keishn Booty is starting to come on,
like that's the guy that could pass him. Just these
guys are getting passed. These are guys that need to
be on the field. They're getting passed.

Speaker 2 (01:50:58):
Marte Mopu and Partic Yeah, it just I.

Speaker 1 (01:51:01):
Still Thornton put out some good yeah work.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
I still have him on just because of third round pick,
second year. It hasn't been play that he is not
making the team. It's it's hell right, so for right last, But.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
At what point, because he's behind, he's I think we
can all acknowledge that. At what point does he just
open the heir on PP.

Speaker 2 (01:51:22):
Well, it can't be on pup right because he's practiced.

Speaker 1 (01:51:25):
Oh that's right, he did start practice.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
So he can. He can. He can injured reserve, so they.

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
Could You're gonna you get two designated return spots.

Speaker 2 (01:51:33):
Yeah, and I would assume that one is going to
go to Christian Barmar.

Speaker 1 (01:51:35):
And the other's probably gonna go, oh no Cold Strangers
on PP.

Speaker 2 (01:51:38):
Yeah. So I so to use it on Thornton, to
use it on Mapu, to use it on My guess
is that Thornton is closer than Mapu is. Yeah, but
we'll see you have two spots. There's even a remote
chance that Christian Barbore can play this year, it's got
to be. He's got to be one.

Speaker 1 (01:51:56):
And for the record, because we had to look the
rule up the other day.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
So it's not it's on cutdown day.

Speaker 1 (01:52:00):
You have to place some on IR on cutdown day
and all of the guys you place on IR that day.
It's not all right, we're gonna place five guys on
IR today and we'll decide which to come back later.
It's you have to name two guys that day. So
if you name bar Moore, and I'm with you, like,
if there's even an outside chance you name them, Yeah,
But if you name Barmore and then he can't come back,

(01:52:23):
you don't then get to go and say, well, we
also play yeah, Marte Mapu on IR on cutdown day.
So he's come back. No, that that's out.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
So yeah, you burned it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:30):
I would still leave the spot form. Yeah like you said, absolutely,
but you don't get to figure it out later.

Speaker 2 (01:52:35):
Yeah, so it's on cut down day. On cutdown day, Yeah,
they will come out with the release and I'm hoping
that we're gonna do it differently this year because they
did it the other way for years because you know who,
but they've come out with the release. One says we
released these players, we waived these players, we ird these players.

Speaker 1 (01:52:53):
Well, they always did that. It just came out at
like eight o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:52:56):
Yeah, right, but then we would also have to like
reverse engineer the from there, right right, So regardless released
is veteran players with more than four crude seasons don't
are not subject to waivers, right Yeah, so they just
get outright release in our street free agents, then you
have a waived. Those are the guys that do go
through waivers obviously, and then they would have like the

(01:53:18):
the IR end of year IR guys, so you know,
you could reach an injury settlement. But let's not get
too caught up in the minutia. So now when they
submit to the league, this is our team when they
go and submit those ir guys that in the past
would be done for the year, right, you can now
designate two guys in that process that could come back, and.

Speaker 1 (01:53:39):
It's they still have to miss. I think it's four games,
just like Pup and everybody else. And then it's the
same process from there where they practice, they're designated to
return and it's twenty one days to actually put them
on the roster.

Speaker 2 (01:53:50):
Yep. Okay, next down for me yep. Headlined by Alex Austen,
but just the cornerback in general, I think is now
becoming a little bit of an issue. Maybe it's it's
also exacerbated by the fact that that Gonzales is just
kind of we need we need a little bit more

(01:54:11):
out of Christian Gonzalez. I think we all can say
that I'm not panicked at all by Christian Gonzales. I'm
not worried about it. But in terms of practice performance,
you have to call a spatis bade right and and
you have you need a little bit more out of them.
But more importantly to me, uh, it's Marcus Jones is
hurt again. Yep. Alex Austin's been not very good.

Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
I think he's been fine. We might we might have
set the expectations for him a little too high.

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
Sure, that's probably fair.

Speaker 1 (01:54:35):
He's been about what you would think, like, uh, you
know U d f A.

Speaker 3 (01:54:41):
Yah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
I just every single day that goes by, I just
wonder more and more if you put in the call,
just fun mail the call because and and we're at
the point now, No, we're no, we're on the same
page here. We're at the point now where this is
like actually becoming a little bit worrisome. It's not overly

(01:55:02):
worrisome yet, because I still think Gonzalez and Jonathan Jones
is a really really solid start. And then whoever fills
in as the nickel, as a third corner, whatever you
want to call it, that guy's gonna get favorable matchups.
It's not gonna be like he's gonna be out there
against Jamar Chase. Yeah. Right. But at the same time,
that group we were bullish on the depth there, I'm

(01:55:23):
not as bullish on it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:55:24):
I'm not either. I'm with you to the last point
you made this year. It's fine. I think some of
the hope was Isaiah Bolden's second year player Alex Austin,
second year player Marcellus Dile rookie was like John Jones
thirty one, and of all the guys they resigned, he's
not one. He's entering a contract year, so that's notable.
I think the hope was one of these guys would
emerge to, you know, be the three this year and

(01:55:46):
then maybe become the two next year. Right and you
cert next to Gonzalez and you certainly haven't seen that.
To the first point when I said we're at that point,
it wasn't even like we're at that point where I'm
petrified about the depth I've been saying for a while,
I think part of the re and Gilmore hasn't signed
to simply I'm Stephan Gilmore. I'm a defensive player of
the Year. I don't need to run win sprints for
the first two weeks camp. Yeah, we're at the point

(01:56:08):
now where it's like, this is when those guys, this
is when those veterans are like, I'm gonna sit out
the dog days camp. Dog days are over, Like if
he wants to play this year, Now we're in the
window where he's probably gonna sign within the next week
or two. Uh, Like what was ze last year's I
was just about to bring this up. So Zeke his
very first practice with the Patriots was in Green Bay.
It was that joint practice, joint practice, Yeah, going into

(01:56:30):
the second preseason game, which makes sense because you want
to get out there for like a drive.

Speaker 2 (01:56:34):
Yeah. So the the insadium practice that year would have
been this Friday. It's gonna be Sunday with the season
ticket holders out at training camp instead, And so Zeke
signed right like the next day, and then was his
first practice with the Patriots was in Green Bay, so
being the equivalent of like the Tuesday joint practice with
Philadelphia would be the practice that they got him in there.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
But I just noticed some watching on here. The shadow
of the wires on your shirt makes like a perfect fifty.
That's just but well now you moved, you ruined it.
But that just bugged me out. I'll show you picture.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
I'd wear fifty. It's a good number. Right, We have
to wrap.

Speaker 1 (01:57:07):
So sorry, Yeah, Gilmour, Uh it were next down place
from the sign. Well I had the kickers.

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
Oh yeah, and we are already do that. Sorry, Do
you have any more?

Speaker 1 (01:57:15):
Uh No, that's pretty much it. There haven't been that
many like glaring offensive line.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
Yeah, it's the big one.

Speaker 1 (01:57:22):
Like it's been a solid competitive camp.

Speaker 2 (01:57:24):
Okay, can I give you this one that is not
a I hate to put him as a down because
it's not a true down because there's just so much
upside and potential there. But the frustrations of like Javon
Baker starting to come out a little bit for me,
drops are starting to add up. Yeah, the drops are
starting to add up a little bit. And he's starting
to to show, which is what you know, some of

(01:57:44):
the things in college, and again, like he gets open,
which is the most important thing. Like, I still have
a lot of hope for him, and I'm not trying
to to, you know, kill him. But the knock on
him in college was consistency, right, like down in and
down out, consistent, The splash plays were always there, They're
always there. Consistency was the biggest thing. And right now,

(01:58:07):
you know he yesterday and the two minute and granted
it's raining and all, I get all the caveats, but
like Drake May throws up perfectly timed out to him
at the sticks and it just goes right through his hands. Right,
he dropped a slant like against air earlier on in
the practice. Those are the types of plays that if

(01:58:28):
he's gonna be a high volume guy and not just
like remember you know the Gabe Davis komp like just
have these big, big games and peaks and valleys. If
he's gonna be like a high volume, one hundred catch guy,
someday he's gonna have to make these layups. Like he
can make the hard ones, he can make these acrobatic
crazy catches down the field, but if he can't catch
the eight yard out or the you know, the three

(01:58:51):
step slant over the middle of the field, and he's
just dropping the ball uncontested, you know, unforced errors. That's
why he's not gonna see the ball at a high volume.
And those are some of the warts with him right now.

Speaker 1 (01:59:03):
Right he's the kind of player where he's always going
to be a boom er bus player. Yeah, he's gonna
make great plays. There's gonna be some drops. You hope
the good outweighs the bad. He needs to prove the
good's going to outweigh the bad. Right now, that ratio
not exactly where he needs it to be.

Speaker 2 (01:59:14):
Yeah, all right, really quickly before we rap, is there
anything else about tomorrow night first preseason game that you're
looking forward to outside of you know, the quarterbacks and
things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
I mean, we touched on a lot of it, all
of my what to watch for up tomorrow on ninety
eight five the sports dot Com. Just I think the
operation as a whole, you know, what coaches are on
the sideline, what coaches are on the booth, what coaches
are meeting with, what group Like We've never really had
to cover something like that before, not as a whole,
maybe individual coaches, but that that part's gonna be interesting
to make.

Speaker 2 (01:59:40):
I'm with you on that. I find that part kind
of fascinating, Like this is a true dress rehearsal for
Girodmeo's staff as well as it is for the players,
and it might actually be more important from a procedural standpoint,
like we were talking about earlier in the show, calling
plays in the huddle and getting to the line of
scrimmage and getting the ball snap. I know this all
sounds pop Warner, I get that, but this is the

(02:00:01):
first time that they're truly doing that live with Gerrod Mayo.
Who's calling you know, where's a VP? Is he up
in the booth? Is he on the sideline? I'm assuming
he's gonna be on the sideline. All these things are
are now the time where we're gonna find out all
these things, and it's gonna be interesting to see how
it's all handled. I don't know how much like fourth
down they're gonna get into decision making wise, but if

(02:00:22):
there is a decision to make, like what does he
do right? You know, those types of things are gonna
be fascinating. One more thing before we sign off this season,
ticket holder practices on Sunday, and we're gonna do a
you know, like a little bit of like a show
during it. Not us, but me and a serge And

(02:00:42):
I think Rob Nikovich is gonna be there, okay, And
I just wanted to tease it a little bit. So
we're gonna do I think about the first hour or
so of practice. We're gonna have some interviews. We're gonna
have all three coordinators are gonna come talk to us,
and we're gonna do a Q and A with that.
We're gonna let you I've already I've already you know,
made sure that the questions get cleared by the appropriate representatives. Uh.

(02:01:05):
And Gidmeyo is going to address the crowd like it's
gonna be a fun day. So if you're a season
ticket older, I think Foxboro residents still get in, right,
I don't know about that that don't don't quote me on.

Speaker 1 (02:01:15):
That, Patriots dot com.

Speaker 2 (02:01:16):
But if you're if you're a season ticket holder and
you're you're on the fence about coming, They're gonna make
this a little bit special for you, guys. Like it's
not gonna just be a regular run of the mill
training camp practice where you're just gonna sit and watch.
And then in between drills and things like that, Serge
and I are gonna go back and forth a little
bit about what's going on on the field and we'll
give some takes and all that kind of stuff. So

(02:01:38):
it's gonna be a fun day. I'm looking forward to it.
And uh, like I said, if you're a season ticket
holder and you're not sure if you want it to come,
I would suggest coming because it's gonna be a little
bit more than what you normally get. Yeah cool, all right,
Uh really quickly, two more got to pay the bills.

Speaker 3 (02:01:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:01:53):
Bridgestone, the official tire of the New England Patriots, is
proud to partner with Sullivan Tire New England's headquarters for
quality Bridgestone Tire. Visit Sulivantire dot com to find a
location near you, and one last time, Easy to Drink It,
Easy to enjoy bud Light, the official beer sponsor of
the New England Patriots. Alex and I will be back
next week, same time, same place. We'll talk about tomorrow night.
We'll recap the joint practices. We'll look ahead to the

(02:02:16):
Eagles preseason game. So still a lot to get to.
We're still in the middle of training camp here and
we're looking forward to it. We'll see you then bye.
Thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, Google Play,
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and review us.

Speaker 1 (02:02:32):
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Speaker 2 (02:02:37):
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