Patriots Catch-22: Full Minicamp Recap, Training Camp, Roster Building

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Barth Blazar and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it.
He joined us always by our bard. Here is Evan
Lazar and Alex bars. I would put David Andrews in
terms of guys that I just enjoyed covering the most.

(00:32):
I would put David Andrews on my personal nout rushmore
up there with Devin mccordy, with Matthew Slater and those Yeah,
I know Matt Russ four, but I think that those
three kind of stand alone for me as just perfect Patriots,
like just perfect on and off the field.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
All throw in there too. And this was one of
the first guys we ever talked to was Dante Hidawer.
He's he definitely knew how much.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
We didn't know what we were doing.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, he was like, did you get one question something
like that. He's like, you can talk to me once
a week or something. Yeah, it was like it was funny.
He was always really good to us.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
It's just kind of funny. Was that's a good you know, yeah,
giving us a little rookie moment. Yeah, he would do that,
and he was he was kidding, but he's also not kidding, and.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
It had to be good, and it had to be good,
and I wouldn't answer.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I remember one time I tried to ask him another
question a couple of days later, and he remembered. He said,
You've already asked me your question this week. I'm not
answering it. He was kidding, But yeah, he's he's definitely
he was great. Yeah, he's definitely on that list as well.
All Right, everybody, Hello, Evan Lazar, Alex Barth, Patriots Catch
twenty two with you for the next couple of hours.

(01:38):
Good story time there, good good recollection of our our
young days on the beat. More that come in the
next five weeks, I'll tell you, Oh yeah, yeah. But
I think it's a good segue though, Alex, and we
got Alex Barth here, Alex behind the glass, Alex is
with me, and I think it's a good segue into
what I wanted to talk about off the top of
the show here with coming off camp two days out there,

(02:01):
I mean camp. We were both there for the last
couple of days of practice, and we early on in
our time, and I'll just speak for myself, I early
on in my time would come out in the spring
and just overrate everything that I saw this time of year.
You know, this guy's gonna be a star. That guy's
gonna you know, be he's gonna stink. You know, this
is my guy.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Now.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
You know, we always make fun of Maurice Harris, but
it's the Maurice Harris of it all. We're making fun
of us, yes, for what we thought about. Good point,
good way to put that. So I get that there
there's that element of this whole time of year as always.
But the other thing that, you know, just along those lines,

(02:43):
like I really want to drink the kool aid with
this team right now because I am excited. I am
optimistic about what they put together.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
They they had a really good off season. They had
a really good off season, a good draft, good free agency,
they had a good spring. I thought the practices were
as energetic and just people buying in and there was
energy and there was buying and there was competitiveness even
during the team drills, you know towards the uh, the
big portions of practice there during the team drills where

(03:13):
you have offense defense on the field and everybody's off
to the side that isn't on the that isn't playing
and everyone's watching like there was a great energy and
back and forth to what they were doing. I'm sure
that tone is obviously set by the head coach and
his energy and his enthusiasm, which is infectious. And I
have the glass of kool Aid is like on the

(03:34):
table right like I poured it. It's on the table,
it's right there. I'm like about to pick it up
and drink it. What's your favorite kol Aid? Do you
have a favorite one? Oh? Man, I just the lemonade. Yeah,
I was gonna say lemonade.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, I had a long day, but that used to
be a summer staple. Maybe I'll bring that back to
This is the analogy I came up. So did you
have like how did you have it? Because I used
to get or my mom used to get like the powder.
I used to have the pouches, right, isn't that where
their power? Just know?

Speaker 1 (04:00):
We had like it was like a like a like
a powder, like a Gatorade powder, but kool Aid. Yeah,
and it was in like you know, plastic kind of
yeah yeah right right See I didn't I didn't like
that one though, because I always felt like I got
the ratio wrong, right, Like you had to nail the
water the powder ratio. Otherwise it is either too wired

(04:21):
down or it was too sugary.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
It was our first science experiment.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Put sugar in, which probably wasn't the healthiest thing to do.
You would put sugar in the kool aid.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
If I didn't get that already, I admitted it wasn't healthy.
Years old, I see what like this this is country
time for some reason.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
But like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah,
I used to do that. I used to have that
a lot with gatoring because I think it might have
been a little bit cheaper than buying the body. I
don't even remember that. Oh yeah, that I don't remember.
The other thing that was great about now we're totally
on a tangent side summer. The other thing that was
great about the Gatorade Power is that I went to
overnight camp and you could keep the gatorade powder. Didn't

(05:00):
need a fridge for the gatorad power, right, So you
could keep the Gatorade power powder in your bunk and
then you would take like a cup of it with
you to the dining hall and then you'd you know,
you could put water in it and now you have gatorade.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Oh I do remember, okay, I do remember that. I
don't know that, like we were hat in the house,
but I do. I do remember this.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Okay, So back on football. I want to drink the
kool aid. I the class is poured. It's there, it's
in front of me. I see it. I see Rabel's vision.
I see what he's brought to the table. I've honestly
really enjoyed watching Josh McDaniel's work again too, you know,
headset on play sheet. He just seems in his element,

(05:39):
whereas maybe as a head coach it was a little
bit different for him. But this seems to be his calling,
is to be an offensive coordinator and and be a
good one at that. We can't, you know, divulge too
much about the plays that they were actually running, but
the offensive were the offensive install in particular, I'm excited about.
I think there's a lot of wrinkles in there that

(06:00):
I was hoping that they were going to do, which
we can get into in a little bit. And I
want to drink the kool aid now. For the first
time though, and probably my entire Patriots fandom, like I'm
hardened by this team a little bit right, everyone knows
what they've been post Brady. You know, they have one
playoff appearance in five years. They're thirty three and fifty

(06:21):
one with one winning season since Tom Brady walked out
the door. So as much as I want to drink it,
my guard's up, Like my guard is legitimately up about everything.
But at the same time, if I just trust my
eyes and what I'm seeing you, Drake May made progressive
strides throughout the entire spring where he just got better
and better with every practice and you could see the

(06:42):
comfort level improving. And he even said, which I thought
was awesome, is exactly what you want to hear your
quarterback say, I don't want to leave. He literally said
he doesn't want to leave because they're making so much
momentum here in the spring. So as much as my
guard is up, my spring guard is up because I
don't want to, you know, overrate practices and shorts and

(07:03):
a T shirt, and we obviously know what this team
has been the last couple of years, So my guard
is up because of that. But this is as optimistic
as I've been. Specifically, I would say about the offensive
side of the ball and quite some time with this team,
because I really feel like by the end of the
spring you were starting to see some real great signs

(07:24):
about what this offense can be, especially from Drake May
and Josh McDaniels.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, i'd say for me, I don't even know if
it's like being hardened by the team as much as
it is. I don't want to overcorrect and know you
take so much from the spring and what does it
amount to.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
And I also don't.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Want to be sit here and be that guy like, well,
actually none of it matters, yeah, right, because there are
bits and pieces that matter you pick through it. I
don't know that. Like, my level of optimism is about
the same. I like the moves they made this offseason.
I whether it be coaching, whether it be played like
I think they did. I think I gave him like

(08:02):
a beat, right, I think they did just about everything
they could do. The veteran wide receiver market was the
one thing that I was like, maybe they could have done,
but like, overall, really solid, especially from where they worked
where they are now is a significant significant improvement. So
I but for me, it's just like I don't know

(08:22):
how much I saw it, Like I guess the coaching
stuff was more validating the player stuff. They're not in pads,
We're not really sure. But that's not to say I
don't feel good about it.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I do. I just I felt good about it going in.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
So it didn't The spring didn't change a ton for me,
other than maybe, like like you said, seeing how Vrabel
was about his business, seeing Josh McDaniel's work again, those
were probably the biggest takeaways for me.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, I agree, and I think the hardest part about
this job this time of year is determining what's real
and what's This is the spring and there's no pads
and there's no contact, and we're in shorts and T shirts.
But one of the biggest things that I think is
really important this time a year is procedural stuff. Are

(09:04):
they getting in and out of the huddle? Are they
lining up correctly? Are there a flurry of pre snap
penalties or errors, substitution errors, penalties, things like that. Are
guys jumping off sides all the time? There was a
little bit of that yesterday. I thought it got a
little bit loose in practice yesterday. But for the most part,
with out of the five practices that we saw in

(09:25):
the spring, it was really clean, like there weren't guys
lining up incorrectly. And then it's well, you know, this
guy went in motion when he shouldn't have, or this
guy is supposed to be in this alignment and he's
in that alignment. Now we got to re huddle. Now
we got to recall the play in the huddle, and
like all this kind of stuff. And I know that
sounds elementary and like it's these are professional football players,

(09:45):
they should already know how to do these things. Yeah,
but based off the last couple of years of what
we've watched, I'm telling you it's not that simple. There
are instances, especially in the last two camps, I would say,
where there was a ton of that kind of stuff
going on and to not see any of that just
allows you to get ahead of where they were this

(10:08):
time last year. And it really hit me yesterday when
we saw them doing some of their red zone install
and things like that during practice how far ahead they
are relative to years past. And I mean, really the
last two years. They are already doing things now that

(10:29):
is deep, deep, deep into the install that I just
don't think they ever really got to, especially this time
of year. Over the last couple of years, and that
just allows you to continue to build, and then you
come back for training camp and it's more putting in
some of the specialized plays or some of the creative
plays and some of the different things, and then just
drilling the base stuff because you already have the base

(10:50):
stuff installed. So that part of it, the cleanliness, the
procedural stuff. How far along it appears that they are
offensively in particular, I think defensively defense is kind of
defense this time of year, and you're not really doing
too much, But how far along they are? Red zone,
third down, like they've did all that over the last
couple of days, and they're already through all of that

(11:11):
kind of thing. So now that it's all about tweaks
and adjustments and adding and moving forward and continuing that momentum.
So that's the biggest thing that I take away from
this time of year, not necessarily who flashed and who
didn't and that sort of thing. I try not to
put too much stock into that stuff anymore. But is

(11:31):
it a clean operation? Is it a professional operation? Does
it look like it should? Do the players look like
they should? Do people know where they're going? Are they
lined up correctly? Are they getting in and out of
the huddle on time? There was a time yesterday where
they were a little slow getting out of the huddle
and Vrabel is like yelling at like, let's go right.
So those attention to detail things are definitely back with

(11:53):
this football team, which is really encouraging. That's what you
want this time of year.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, and you know, people would ask me, well, does
it feel different than last year? And it you know,
I was kind of saying, yeah, yeah, I mean yes
and no, it's just so early, how do you know?
But I do remember one of the first things last
year that was a little head scratching was like they
didn't we've covered enough camps that we kind of know

(12:19):
when you sort of take the jump to the next
step and in any various number of ways. And it
felt like at times they were maybe a little behind
schedule with the install Now that was more in the
summer than the spring. But to see them get into
red zone and get into third down right away in
mini campus like okay, here we go, like they're taking
that next step. So the operation from that macro standpoint

(12:42):
and then to zoom in a little bit more like
you said, getting in out of the huddle, the substitution stuff,
things like that. I think there were a few penalties
yesterday that maybe went uncalled, but overall, penalty wise of
very clean spring like that kind of stuff is how
you tell that they're making progress.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, so all positive things, good things. Now I'll do
a little bit of a compliment Sandwich here. All that
was really positive for the first thirteen minutes of the show,
and I meant to every word. I think, you know,
like I said, the drink is the kool aid is poured,
it's right in front of me. I just need to
see I need to see some padded practices before I'm
starting to drink it, right, But it's right there in

(13:19):
front of me.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Now.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
The one to make this a compliment, Sandwich. The criticisms
are just sort of the small sea concerns, I guess
is the better way to put it. That I still have.
And I'm still focused mostly on offense right now. One,
I don't know what this offensive line is going to
look like. I still am not one hundred percent sure
that their line is going to be significantly improved, mainly

(13:44):
because we haven't seen it in pads, so like that's
a big reason and I think a lot of this
time of year or two when you're not in pads,
like it's hard to pass block without pads on, you
really can't hit anybody. You're in a basketball stands and
just trying to kind of stay in front of guys.
It's clearly advance defense in that respect with the pass rush,
and it's basically third down every play because you know

(14:04):
they're running. You're not running the ball, so there's a
lot of advantages. But just looking at it on paper,
you have what I believe is probably the biggest hole
on in this you know, all twenty two right now,
and the starting lineup on both sides of the ball
at left guard. I have no idea what they're gonna
do at left guard. Now. They have bodies to throw

(14:26):
at it. It's not that they don't have options. I
just don't know if any of them are good options.
You know, Cole Strange probably right now is the leader
in the clubhouse. He's got the inside track if he doesn't,
if he stays healthy and all that momentum continues, I
do think he's probably gonna hold off everybody and keep
that job going into the season. But left guard is
a giant unknown right now at center, we probably know

(14:50):
what Brad Burry is gonna you're hoping he's gonna just
be a serviceable starting center. I don't think anybody's thinking
that he's going to be anything more than that. So
those are two spots on your interior. Morgan mos is
thirty four years old, just is what it is. Will
Campbell's a rookie, is what it is. He's a highly
drafted rookie, and you hope that that means that he's seamless,

(15:12):
but he's a rookie at the end of the day.
And then there's Big Mike, who is Big Mic, right,
So you put all this together, and that's my biggest
concern with this team right now. We know what it
looks like when the offensive line is so bad that
you just can't really function offensively. I don't know if
we're going to get to that point. Hopefully we don't.
But right now, if I had to say, what's my

(15:33):
biggest concern on this team, it's still the offensive line.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, there's still a lot of unknowns there. And look, I
think I was talking to somebody about this. Guess say,
like I think they're in a much better spot on
the offensive line than they were last year. I think
they're significantly improved, but I still think that there are
concerns with that group.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Both of those can be true.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
It's more just kind of an indictment on where they
were last year with it. But they have like this
time last year, you just did it left guard right,
We don't know, And I think even to say Cole
Strange is the favorite, like he was out there good
amount in the spring, but he was kind of after
by the fault, they weren't really you know, I city
so I was playing on the right side because Mike
when wine was limited and west Weis, who's I was

(16:14):
since retired, wasn't out there.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Tyres Robinson missed a couple of.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Practice at this moment, but he wasn't out there, so
we don't know would have been out there. You know,
Lane Robinson's the one guy that just kind of seems
like clearly he isn't getting the work. But you know,
last year we were doing that at both tackle spots, right,
who are both tackles.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Going to be?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
And you at least know going in Like nobody's question,
where's Morgan Moses added thirty four years old.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
It's a fair question.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
But we know he's proven he can be in his
starting caliber right tackle in the NFL. Will Campbell, Yeah,
there's it's based on potential, but he was the fourth
overall pick for a reason.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
He's a very technically skilled guy.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Like you're looking at upside there with Brad Berry, I
think I still think that's a battle with him at
Jared Wilson. It was limited the spring, so we didn't
get to see much of him, But like you feel
like you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Be able to get a starter there, there is.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
There is much more of a foundation from where they
were last year. That doesn't mean it's gonna be great,
but I just think you're gonna be able to build
more continuity and in that continuity, even if it's not
the best group. What was it How many games was
it last year before they used the same offensive line
back to back games? It was deep into the season
like that. You know, injuries or injuries, but just in

(17:23):
terms of swapping guys in and out, that shouldn't be
a problem last year, And you can raise the level
of the group, even if individually you know you don't
have five great players across. If you get guys that
are consistently out there working together, starting in camp and
going through the season, that can make the group better.
I know Kegan Steve Stifle from Steve wil firmness and
has it, so I'll find the oh this stat yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Well, he was charting it every week last year. It's
a good point that with continuity and hopefully the same
set of five guys and see it through the same
set of eyes and all that that good stuff, that
the talent level could be better than. Was that saying
that the whole could be better than the some of
the park, better than the sum of their part. Yeah,
So that there's that potential. I always look at it

(18:08):
from a defensive perspective though, and when you talk about
the offensive line, you're always looking for like where's the
weak link that we can attack? And even teams that
have great offensive lines, it's always about almost like who's
your weakest link and how bad is that guy? Right?
Because if it's a if that player is below replacement

(18:29):
level and you're going out there Week one against the
Las Vegas Raiders and they have Max Crosby, all the
Raiders are gonna do is line up Max Crosby over
your weakest link and they're just gonna have him rush
twenty times over your weakest link on the offensive line,
and they're gonna expose that. So the good news is
for the offensive line, they have bodies. I'm not concerned about.

(18:52):
They just don't have anybody to play here.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
So Week ten was Week ten was the first time
they used to repeat line last year, but it was
eight to ten. They didn't use it back to back weeks.
Week ten and eleven was the first time they used
the same offensive line and back to back weeks. Yeah,
that sounds the Darian Lowe, Michael Jordan, Ben Brown, Mike
oh and Winnho Demntro Jacobs. Yeah, we're better. They're beyond that, honestly.
How many Well, Michael Jordan's obviously not here anymore. Yeah,

(19:16):
there's a real chance only one of those five guys
is on the team this year. Michael went who's gonna
make team obviously, right, Ben Brown I think is right
on the bubble. Jacob's and low like they they brought
in backup tackles to compete too.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
So there's a chance that one of those five guys
is on the team this year. They're in much better
shape than that. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. Now.
The other thing is we've talked about in the past.
You can cover up one hole on the offensive line
if you have one week link. There's ways to cover
it up. It's honestly probably easier to do it on
the interior than it is at tackle. Yes, because you

(19:50):
can use the center. You know that you can put
him in the slide side and not the man's side,
and that way there they have somebody coming over, you know.
So usually with protections you have three man slide side
and then the backside is man to man. So those
two guys on the backside are man to man. So
if you have to put Morgan, Moses and Mike Onwenu
one on one for a little while and then kind

(20:12):
of have the left side be the slide side, now
you can't be that predictable. You have to change it
up and the defense. The front also dictates like where
you're sliding and where you're man to mand and all
that kind of stuff. But in general, if that's like
the rule of thumb, then they can cover up for
a left guard that isn't the best. They can cover

(20:33):
up for a center, you know, Garrett Bradbury that has
some limitations because of his size and his play strength
and things like that in the past game. So you
can cover up stuff like that. It's doable. I just
it's another area of the team that I still think
that they're They're maybe one year away from truly fixing it.
They made strides this offseason, but now there's other holes

(20:53):
that have presented themselves and things like that. Andrews gets
cut and retires. You know, left guard hasn't really gone
the way that they necessarily plan. Now. The two guys
at left guard, I want to mention before we move on,
Cayden Wallace, who saw some reps at left guard during
Mini camp, which I don't think is a small thing.

(21:14):
I think that's actually something we should focus on because
coming out of college at Penn State, there were a
group of people in the scouting community and in the
media who felt like he was a guard in the
NFL and not a tackle. He was one of those
tackle to guard converts types of guys. So we see
this a lot in college left and right tackles. They

(21:35):
just don't have the foot speed, or they don't have
the length, or they don't have something to play tackle
in the NFL, so they move him inside the guard
and they're pretty good guard. So I do think Kidd
and Wallace could be a pretty good guard. So maybe
he's a left guard. And I'm still holding out hope.
We didn't see him much this spring. He's limited with something,
but I still believe that Jared Wilson could be heard
from in this competition as well. Maybe he starts his

(21:58):
career at left guard instead of center. So those two
guys are younger guys that maybe have a little bit
more upside or unknown compared to Cole Strange, which I
think we kind of know what he is at this point,
So maybe those two could eventually push Cole Strange. I
have no idea, you know, it's just a spring. No
clue what's going on with Leyden Robinson doesn't seem like
he's someone that's right now at least in the plan.

(22:20):
And then Cities is still kicking around too. He's still
around and could be in that Jack Connelly and there
tim Jack Conley is a good one too, I mean
because he can you know, maybe not as a starter ultimately,
but like he can play four positions. Yeah, and he's
got tremendous size, and I think that value probably helps
him push for a roster spot.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
And then if he's doing that, you know, again that
left guard competition's wide open, maybe he kind of sneaks
in there.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
So the other thing on offense, you know, offensive line
is the biggest small sea concern right now for me,
because if you give McDaniels a functional offensive line and
a good quarterback, they have enough weapons that I feel
like he can mix it up and he can figure
it out schematically. It gives you almost like a twenty

(23:05):
twenty one vibe at that point, with maybe even a
better quarterback, so you might even be better than you
were in twenty twenty one. Twenty twenty one that the
skill positions were fine, but they weren't anything special. You know,
is Nelson agil or, Kendrick Bourne, Jacobe Myers, Henry Ormandre
still right. It wasn't like it. They were the seven Patriots,
like they had some guys, but it wasn't great. So

(23:27):
they were a good offense to you know, above average
offense that year. I don't see why they couldn't be
this year if they have the line play and the
quarterback play. The outside receiver spot still also feels like
a little bit of a small sea concern. They played
a lot of packages this week and in the spring
in general. It's a lot of Kishan Boodie, who I

(23:48):
like as a player. He's a fine player. But every
team is going to know they're gonna want to funnel
the ball through the middle of the field. Pop Douglass
caught like a million passes over the last two days.
Hunter Henry is going to be a big part of
the Stefan Diggs when he's healthy, is going to be
a big part of the things. And all those guys
feature or you know, I would assume are going to
be in those McDaniels, you know, slot receiver, tight end

(24:11):
over the middle, like that kind of role. So what
do they do They have anything on the outside to
at least make the defense respect it. Maybe that's Diggs,
Maybe it's Kyle Williams if he can emerge and that I.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Think they want Kyle Williams as the X. There's also
Mac Hollins, who we didn't I mean, he was out there.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
But he wasn't in uniform. He's dealing with something who
we didn't get to see.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I think that's probably between you know, I almost wonder
if they want to move booty back to the Z
where he's the more natural fit and it's Mac Hollins
and Kyle Williams for the X.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, so Kyle Williams maybe the catch a camp of
mini camp with the bomb on Monday, right, he catches
runs right through the middle of his own defense. Looked
like it was cover two. Linebacker is trying to carry
him up up the hole, the pole runner, and he
just ran right by the linebacker and caught about a
forty five forty four forty five yard bob from Josh Dobbs.

(25:03):
Not press though, No, there wasn't where he's not contacted. Right,
yesterday we got into practice and he had a one
on one on the outside against Christian Gonzales and it,
you know, second team All Pro did second team All
Pro things. So I'm not saying like that's not to
be overly critical of Kyle Williams. He's a rookie third
round pick going up against a top five to six

(25:25):
corner in the NFL. He's probably gonna have some ups
and downs against Christian Gonzales. But can Kyle Williams get
off press? Can he get off the line of scrimmage
against physical press man coverage? At five ten one ninety.
He's got a great release package, he's got great quicklins
off the line, But when guys get into his grill
and get into his airspace, is he going to be
able to get off the line of scrimmage in you

(25:47):
know a good amount of time, right, you know, on time,
all those types of things. I think that's a question
mark with him. I feel like they're gonna always, like
with McDaniels, and I want to get into some of
the McDaniels stuff, They're always going to have that middle
of the field option. I just feel like he's always
going to find a way to get slot receivers and
tight ends and running backs the ball. Are they going

(26:09):
to have enough on the outside? It would be the
other thing to me when we're talking about the ceiling
of this offense and how far they really could go.
I like Keishawan Boodie, like I said, it still feels
like they're begging for more there though a little bit,
you know, And maybe again maybe it's just the fact
that Digs isn't in team drills, right, I think that's
part of it. Yeah, So maybe that and mac collins,

(26:30):
Like I think those are two guys that are going
to be involved that we didn't get to see how
they're going to be using. Yeah, okay, so Kampleman sandwich.
Those are my small sea concerns on offense. The other
positive I want to talk about on offense is just
some of the things that we saw already from McDaniels
and the different things that they're going to incorporate within
this offense. I'm mostly really excited about. I think there's

(26:51):
a little bit of everything. Honestly from what I saw
out of this offense or some of the old McDaniel staples.
I think for the most part, the quick game and
the shotgun package in the way they call the offense
from the shotgun for the most part, is gonna be
pretty much you're everyone's gonna kind of recognize it. You know,
you're gonna understand what you're watching. There's maybe a little

(27:13):
bit of West Coast flavor going in there from under center.
I think that's possible. Uh, And I still feel like
there's a dimension that maybe we'll see what Drake may
as a runner, you know, those types of things. It's
it's really what I wanted them to do. For the
most part, I really thought that what he showed at
least in mini camp and granted, you know, these are

(27:34):
base plays and we have a long way to go,
but it's encouraging. The other thing I wanted to point
out was there's a lot of stuff going on in
the backfield, like with running backs and stuff. I think
they're gonna be it's gonna be a big running back here.
There's a chance that we're pony expressing, you know, going
back to the sm days, right, Like, there's a chance
that that's happening. Oh wait, that's not why they're called

(27:57):
the pony express. Yeah, it is Craig James and Eric Dickerson.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Right, but not because of the formation. It's because they're
the Mustangs. No, is that what the pony is? That
why that sets called pony? Yes, I didn't actually know that.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
I like, I like what I teach you something like that,
I feel did I feel like that's normally the other
way around?

Speaker 2 (28:16):
I figured, Well, I figured that term existed before nineteen
eighty two.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that's why they
call it pony pony package anyways. Interesting, So I think
we could see some of that, and you could see
the complimentary skill sets because reminder Stevenson is that power back,
bigger back, and then they have these speedbacks with Antonio
Gibson and Trayvon Henderson especially that they compliment each other
really well and there's some different things they can do.

(28:42):
There's obviously a brock Lampy element to this as well,
a full back element that I think is going to
be there too, and in this offense. So there's there
was a lot going on in the batfield, like they
have different formations, different looks, you know, different personnel groupings.
It was it was interesting. I don't know what all
of it, if all of it will right right, This
might be let's just throw as much as we see

(29:03):
what yeh, try see what we can do. Yeah, see
what works. But there was a lot of that going
on as well.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, absolutely, it's this is what we talked about when
they hired McDaniels, was it's going to be there's a
big variation. Seeing the Josh McDaniels offense doesn't really mean
anything because there are so many different iterations of it
and he looks like he's really empty the back.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's so that's my compliment, Sandwich. I
want to talk about a bunch of other things from
uh mini camp as well, So keep it going here
and then we'll take your calls and emails. See the emails.
I see the calls. We'll get to those in a
few minutes, I promise. But the other big talking pointer
storyline that we got to touch on coming out of
mini campus Stefon Diggs and seeing Steffan Diggs really for

(29:47):
the first time. We saw him at that ot A
right last week. So we've seen three practices now Stefon Diggs,
and I'm just talking about the football. He didn't do
any team drills yet and he's still not cleared for
He did like some team walked through, not any fold.
So I like to see that because that tells me
that they think it could be early, sooner rather than

(30:09):
later once we get the training camp. So they want
to make sure he's on the same wavelength in terms
of learning everything as everybody else. So that's a good side.
But I gotta tell you, even though his routes are against air,
when he was turning it on on some of those routes,
I think Mark Daniels posted a video of him kind
of opening it up in some routes against air type stuff,
and he looks great. I mean his leg, the injured

(30:30):
leg is clearly smaller than the healthy legs. Still, he
still got to add some like muscle mass back to
that leg. But the twitchiness and the explosiveness look like
Stefan Diggs to me, like he looked really good moving
out there, especially relative to how close he He just
tores acl in October, and he looks miles ahead of
other guys that we've seen in this position. So he

(30:50):
said his goal was to be ready for week one.
I'm not ruling it out. I think there's a real
possibility that he's ready for week one based off of
what we've seen.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Look, yeah, he's not one hundred percent yet, but he's
got what three months, right, yeah, to get there, and
he doesn't seem very far away. So I yeah, he
looks like a guy that could play week one certainly.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, So that was good. He talked yesterday for the
first time as well since for the in the spring,
since his introductory press conference goals to be ready week one.
I thought the other thing that stood out besides all
the other stuff, was the fact that there's a lot
of overlap for him and from Brian Dable which I
think you probably could have guessed. But right that helps,

(31:33):
It definitely helps. He said, there's some of the terminology
is slightly different, but for the most part the concepts
are the same. So they might call it something different
here than Brian Dable called it, but he's still running
the same rout. It's still those same mechanics of the row.
Whether there's an adjustment or there's a sight adjuster, or
whatever the case may be, it's all the same. So
that's good. I think he'll pick it up quickly. Looked

(31:55):
good out there. That could be the missing ingredient. Maybe
that would make me feel better, the whole outside receiver
thing that I was talking about earlier. So that's the fun.
Diggs the other there's one other thing on offense that
I wanted to bring up. Oh yeah, there's some scuttle butt,
some talk about Pop Douglas and where does he fit
into this whole equation fits I'll tell you that he

(32:17):
could he get eftin Chisholmed and you know, could he
be a surprise cut candidate if you will, like all
those you know, talk radio things that we do. That's
not happening. I don't think that's happening. I think that
that is we basically ruled that out this week in
my opinion. Now he is a jitterbug slot receiver in

(32:39):
non padded practices, so he should look great. This is
this is his time to shine like this is basically
glorified flag football. He should be a stud in these
types of practices. But to his credit, he was awesome
for two straight.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Down And we've seen him, We've seen it translate when
the pads come on before, so it's not like we
have nothing to go off of. He looked exactly at
home and the mcdan slot receiver role, all those slot routes,
and one of the things that really impressed me watching
him run routes this week was how well he was
adjusting the route based off the coverage. And you know,
all those those routes on the inside have a bunch

(33:13):
of options on them, and you're.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Reading leverage, you're reading man zone. You know, too high,
you're sitting here one high, he might be sitting someplace else.
You're breaking away from man. You're reading leverage. So if
the defender is outside of you, you're breaking inside. If
he's inside, you're breaking outside. Like all that kind of stuff,
and he was doing all of it pretty seamlessly, and
they were finding matchups for him. He's getting on linebackers
and stuff like that. In the middle field. It looked

(33:36):
like Edelman, Welker, Troy Brown, Dion Branch like. It looked
like all those types of guys doing it at a
really high level. He was open for two straight days
pretty much all the time, and that was really good
to see. I pot Douglas is a lock on this team. Yes, right,
he always was, but I'm not wrong to say that
there were people that were people sitting that those people

(33:57):
were wrong. Yeah, okay, I'm glad with his stat much that.
So those are my offens thing. Is there anything I missed?
I tried to jot these all down and make sure
we got to everything. Josh Dobbs had a couple of
nice throws. Josh Dobbs can. Josh Dobbs is a classic
veteran backup. In Mini camp, like Brian Hoyer was the same.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
I was gonna say, he's no like Training Camp Brian
Hoyer was MVP one of the most fun things I've
ever seen. Yeah, training Camp Brian Hoyer stands alone. But yeah,
Dobbs definitely has some of that where he'll he'll go
out there and sling and he hit.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
He had the deep throw to to Kyle Williams, yep,
I don't remember what it was.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
He had one yesterday. It wasn't deep, but he'd fit
the ball in like a really tight window.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
That again, you're probably not testing, but he's testing it
because it's it's practice and he knows his role and
looked fair. I thought, I thought, you know, he had
had a couple bad picks as well, but I thought,
there's he's got more live than arm than maybe I
thought he. It's always the guys like Josh Dobbs who
have a little bit of a time in the league

(34:52):
and a little bit of confidence and also just like
they don't give an f Like if Josh Dobbs was
a pick in this practice, does he care, No, he
doesn't care. Like he cares, but like it's not like
no pressure on Josh Dobbs to avoid turnovers and things
like that. So a lot of these veteran backup quarterbacks
in these practice they just rip it. They just rip it.

(35:13):
And all of them can throw like they're all NFL quarterbacks,
so they all have, you know, good arms, and they
can all put it there and all that kind of stuff,
especially when it's you know, glorified seven on seven and
there's really no live pass rush.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
So yeah, he did make some good None of them
rip it like Brian hoyre No, he come out with
the dark visor and just Brian Hoyer and I say,
practice squad, not practice squad.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Training camp. Brian Hoyer was me playing Matt. I say
this a little bit tongue in cheek, like training camp.
Brian Hoyer what like had some moments that were like
Brady esque, right, Like obviously Brady was Brady, but like
there were times where Brian Hoyer would make just as
good of a throw, like you were just like, wow,
that was an absolute dime. Now Brady would make that
throw like ten times in a row, and that was

(35:54):
the difference. But like, yeah, Brian Hoyer is definitely all
training camp team. Josh Dobbs might be close. Josh Oobs.
Guy has some moments. He can put the ball, He
can put the ball on guys. Yeah, he can absolutely good.
Point oh really quickly. Also, before we move on to
the defensive side, running back, running back's interesting Trayvon Henderson

(36:17):
and Antonio Gibson feel redundant. Now there's still a role
for both those guys, right, that's not necessarily a bad
thing because they need to carry at least three. But
I was playing around with the roster projection. I know
you're playing around with the roster projection as well. Between Gibson, Henderson, Larison, Like,

(36:39):
those three guys are probably the most likely. Obviously Henderson's
going to be on the team, but those three guys
behind Ramandre Stevenson, those four are really what we're talking
about at running back. Those three Gibson, Henderson, Larison kind
of are very redundant, very you know, similar to each other.
Do they have room for all three of those because
when I was doing the rows for projection, I wasn't

(37:01):
sure if they needed to carry four.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
I mean, I don't think it's a guarantee that they
keep all of them, but I certainly think they have room.
Especially you know, if you keep a guy like Marcus
Bryant or Jack Conley or King Wallas can play some
guard like that saves you an offensive lineman.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
How many safeties are they really gonna keep? Maybe we
didn't really get to tight ends.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
I'll use this as an excuse to talk about tight ends,
they may only keep two tight ends right away. Yeah,
because nobody from that third tight end group emerged this spring.
And look, there's still ways to go, but just just
looking at it, if you know, between CJ.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
DePree, jahem Bell, G.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Scott, and Jack Westover and I think all like west
Over got a lot of run. I'm not rolling any
of those guys out, but none of them really had
any moments in the spring. You can get You're probably
not gonna keep all four on the practice squad. You
can get two of those guys to practice squad, maybe three,
and you can just elevate as you need and eventually
a roster spot will open up. So never really gonna
keep two tight ends to start fourth running back makes

(37:55):
a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
When when I looked at tight end, I did feel
fel the same way. Do you need to keep all
those guys on the roster There are so many with
all the new rules, with the practice squad, with the
elevations and all that stuff. If you really feel like
you need a third tight end on game day, it's
pretty easy to just elevate that plan right now from
the practice squad for the short term and then there's

(38:20):
all Unfortunately, there's always injuries and ir stints and things
like that that open up roster spots if you feel
like you run out of elevations and you need to
put that guy on the fifty three man roster. So
there's definitely ways to go with that. But I agree,
I didn't feel like any of those tight ends really
separated themselves where if you're gonna be the third tight
end on this team, you're gonna have to earn that role.

(38:42):
It's not like just a we need to have three
tight ends, so we're just gonna put this guy on
the team. You're gonna have to earn it, especially with
the flexibility from the practice squad. Now, I'll give my
guy a CG dupre training camp because he's a pads
on guy, he's a blocker, he's an inline tight end.
I don't know if this time year is really c
G dupreeze time to shine. Probably not. But I didn't

(39:04):
think any one of those guys stood out either. So
the way I look at it, you know, Henry Hooper
definitely on the team at tight end, and then Brock
Lampy if they want to have a full back package.
There's only one full back on this team right now,
and that's what it felt like. I compared it the
other day to in lacrosse in high school when I
was on JV. We only had one goalie, so there

(39:25):
was no debate about who was going to be the
starting goalie. There's no competition because we only had one goalie.
So every single time they called the full back on
the field, there was only one guy on the ninety
man roster that was running on the field and it
was Brock Lampy. So you know, maybe that's the way
they go there with the tight ends and running backs.
It's a numbers game there as well. So moving over

(39:46):
to the defense, My biggest takeaway on defense from this
camp in this spring the health of Christian Barmore, and
in a good way. Christian Barmore looks like he's in
great shape. He looks like he's a you know, he
told us that green light, full go. He's got no
limitations whatsoever if they have twenty twenty three. Christian Barmore

(40:09):
not even thinking about Oh, him next to Milton Williams
and him next to Keyon White, like just Christian Barmore
in a vacuum. Going back to twenty twenty three form
is absolutely huge for this team. Not that I doubted
that he was going to be a full go, but
you still were a little bit wary with what happened,
you know, with the blood clots last year. That's not
a no joking matter, that's a very serious thing. But

(40:30):
it was great to see him and he looks like
he's in great shape, you know, running all around the field,
chasing down plays, getting in the backfield of course, like
we know he can. So that's a huge development. And
the two of those guys, him and Milton Williams were
attached to the hit the entire spring. Like those guys
were the two interior starting defensive tackles from wire to

(40:51):
wire this spring, and they would run on the field
together and they run off the field together. They're becoming friends,
I'm sure. But it was great to see Barmore as
a full go. TH's he looks like his old self,
which is great development.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, there was no ramp up, there was no I mean,
you wouldn't know just watching Praudice that this was a
guy that went through a major medical issue last year.
So that that was my big takeaway too. Well, that
was one of two I had on defense. He looks good,
he looks healthy, he looks ready to go.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
I don't know what your other one is, but my
next one was the best player on the field for
the spring, Christian Zalez easily the best player on the
team throughout the entire spring. That's not surprising. He was
a second team All Pro last year. He is the
best player on the team. Yeah, until maybe Drake May
takes that next step, he's going to be the best
player on the team. And he's he just looked, I

(41:41):
would say, almost even better than he did last year.
And the one thing that he's added maybe to his
game is he's making a lot more plays on the
ball now. Maybe that's just because he was being tested
more because Drake May said he wanted to kind of
test him and he didn't want to let him off
the hook by not throwing his way and things like that.
But he had two picks on that practice that Drake
May had a couple of picks to start this spring. Yesterday,

(42:04):
we actually posted it on Twitter on Patriots Twitter handle.
Just a beautiful over the shoulder one handed to interception
staying over the top of a go route by Kyle
Williams he just looks like he's maybe is sending to
from second team to first team All Pro.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
I was saying this yesterday on Patriots Beat, like the
next step, Like he's already in the conversation of is
he one of the best corners in the league?

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Is he a top five corner in the league?

Speaker 5 (42:32):
Right?

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Which I think he is, But you know, people have
that conversation, So what's the step up from that?

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Well?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Is he the best corner in the league? And is
he like if he takes that step, holy cow? Right,
and that's it, sir Tan right now, right? I don't
think that's a hot take. How big is the gap
between him and Sirtan or at least based off last year,
how big is the was the gap between him and Sirtan?
And do you think he can close that? I've said
this before.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Well, I don't know if you want to answer that,
but it's fun because they're similar players, Yeah, and they've
Christian Zalez has talked about Patrick Surtan being sort of
an idol or like an example for him that a
guy he's studied and a guy he's followed his career,
So they really play a lot of the same way,
you know, they're both man coverage guys. They're both guys

(43:17):
that can travel and and just take out your best player,
your best receiver. So I'd probably give the experience in
the edge a little bit to start tam. But the
only thing that I felt like was missing from Christian
Zalez's game, and it wasn't like a huge criticism or
anything like that, but could you make some more picks,
you know, more players, more plays of the ball. So
that's that's what I wanted to get to.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Is you mentioned, you know, is he getting more plays
on the ball in the springs, is getting testimony. I
think that's part of it, certainly, But I think the
other thing is there really was no need to throw
near him last Yeah, and now you get Carlton Davis
on the other side, Marcus Jones fully healthy, ideally in
the slot, Kyle Duggars, Brill.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Pepper's fully healthy.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
By the way, Craig Woodson looks really good in coverage too,
really goodn't coverage specifically, So there's gonna be more times
where teams are gonna have to throw in his direction
because they're not gonna want to test these other guys.
So I think he will have an opportunity to make
more plays on the ball this year.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
It certainly showed out this spring, and it was around
the ball a lot. You look at his box scores,
you know, from a charting perspective last year, like there
are games where he's targeted once, targeted three times, you know,
two times. I think the one gam where he's targeted
a bunch was that Cardinals game with Marvin Harrison Junior,
and he locked them down. So you look at those
types of games and it's like, well, he just doesn't

(44:31):
have the opportunities, so he may picks on the ball
like they're just if you're only getting targeted once or
twice a game, you're just not it's not gonna have
a ton of people, Matt.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
I'm trying to remember this wasn't he like one of
the most targeted corners in football last year and people
are like, why is he being targeted so much? But
he'd like the lowest.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Uh, he might have been targeted a lot because they
played a ton of man, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Eighty four he was the twenty third most targeted, but
among qualified corners completion percentage, I don't think I think
it was really.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Low top ten. I would I would guess like tenth. Yeah,
tied for ninth, fifty four point eight. So like, I
don't mind if his targets are high, target them all
you want. I don't care if he's not allowing completions. Great, yeah,
awesome when you have the number when you play a
lot of man coverage and you're man to man on
the number one guy, they're not gonna just not throw

(45:24):
to their number one receiver. It doesn't happen very often.
You have to be really that's that's prime Revus right
right right, But or you played Cincinnati week one, they're
not gonna just not throw the ball to Jamar Chase,
like they're gonna try to throw it to him, even
if Gonzo's on him, right, But it's yeah, no, that's Revas.
Was that guy?

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Or remember when teams just didn't throw it non the
Osma off for like two years off reputation, and then
one year they're like, hey, maybe we should throw at
this guy again and see and then it turned out
he didn't have any more. So, yeah, gonzalso's twenty third
in targets and he was thirty sixth in catches.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Eleve it's a fun uh, it was a fun new
answered by Drake may And and a good point by
him of he's gonna see some targets in the season.
So if I'm just afraid to throw it to his
side of the field all of training camp, I'm not
helping him get back, and it doesn't help me get
better because he's going to be great coverage and I'm
gonna have to put the ball on a platter for
my guy. And so it's, you know, that whole iron

(46:18):
sharp and iron thing. And it's good that those two
are going back and forth a little bit. So Barmore
and Gonzo Arrow up looking good on the both those guys.
The other item I wrote down here not quite compliment
sandwich style on the defense, but similar the third down
pass rush. I think we saw a little bit more
of what they have in store for it over the

(46:39):
last couple of days they were in third down a
little bit more, it felt like. So I do think
that they're going to get into some of those you know,
five man like mug looks and things like that a
little bit more. Uh. You know, they did a lot
of overload in Tennessee where they would still be in
a four down line, but they have three guys to
one side of the center and overload that side, and
then you're gaming and picking guys and stunting and all

(46:59):
that good stuff to get guys free. But maybe you know,
they have a little bit more of a blitz package
that we saw yesterday especially. I would say they kind
of turned it up a little bit after the offense
had a good day on Monday, Rabel said, pre practice,
they did a lot of three man rush from the
red zone. He'll drop eight in the red zone and
Drake May was just kind of standing there with all day.

(47:21):
So yesterday they did the opposite, the kind of came
after him and the defense got a little bit of
a leg up there. I look at you know, Bar Moore,
Milton Williams gonna be on the field as much as possible,
especially on third down. I do think on White's getting
into that conversation too. Is being a regular on all
three downs. They're moving him around though he's not playing

(47:42):
the same position. Yeah, I've been handing the dirt mostly,
I just write, but he's playing inside, he's playing outside.
I think he's their chest piece. Yeah, I think he's
the guy they're gonna hnt matchups with X factor. To me,
like a big time X factor if he takes that
next step in this scheme, which is more aggressive and
more gaming and more to his skill set right worried
about rush lane integrity and holding the edge and all

(48:03):
that stuff that they did in the old system. If
he is just allowed to just tee off, I think
he could have a really a good year in that role. Now,
when they get into third down, how are they one
of their personnel around those guys gonna look like? Is
Harold Landry gonna be a three down player for this team?
Is that going to be Chaseon That's gonna merk? He
got a lot of run? Is there a chance still?

(48:26):
We didn't see it necessarily in the spring, but like
a Brandon Swinson or an Elijah Ponder or someone that
they just drafted, uh coming and breaking out into like
a third down pass rusher role, you know that Joshua
a type of role. I think it's probably Chason right
now that they have in mind at least for this year.
We'll see maybe if Swinson can take over that eventually.
But the edge rush is still something that I would

(48:49):
say somewhat unknown. Like the interior pressure. I feel like
it's going to be really good and maybe that's enough
that they can just flush the quarterback one way and
Landry or a chaseon just to clean up sacks. And
that doesn't necessarily mean you have to win your one
on one as that guy. You just kind of have
to be there and be ready. But do you feel

(49:09):
any concern at all about pass rush off the edge
in particular? I think Williams and Barnware and are gonna
get after.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah, kind of like I said about the offensive line,
like it's better. That doesn't mean they're where they need
to be. It's more about how far away they were
last year. Ye Chazon's gonna play a role. He was
very involved. We didn't see a ton of Braden Swinson,
but that's another guy I'll be interested to see more
when the Pats come on.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I hope they find a role for Anthony Jennings. I
really do.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
He didn't really have much of one in the spring,
and it is kind of square peg round hole with
this defense with him. We've talked about this, like, I
just think he can play. But they have and did
I mention Landry like and they have Langer so like
they have guys that can compete there. I don't know
that they have. Like we've talked about them getting that
coverage dictating wide receiver for so long. That same kind

(49:56):
of concept exists on defense, and you know, you might say, well,
Christian Barber, Milton Williams, those guys can dictate blocking.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah, which they can, and that's not nothing.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
But that's sort of like you know, a tight end
being your coverage dictating wide receiver where it's gonna make
a difference, like it's a factor, but it's not that
there are more ways to counter that versus if it's
a guy on the edge. It's a lot harder to
double a guy on the edge versus guy in the middle.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
It's a lot eaer.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, and like sliding protections and things like that. So
there's still that like premiere pass rusher away. But the
players they.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Have there aren't bad.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
I just don't know that they have that guy that is,
you know, they don't have their Matthew Judon.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
There's a little bit of that with this roster right now.
And I don't yeah, in a better way than it
sounds because unlike Lash, you're like you're bringing up earlier
with the tackles where we didn't know who their starting
tackles were and that was not good this year. You know,
I would say twenty of twenty two starters or twenty one.
Like really, left guard is the only spot that I'm

(51:00):
not really sure who's starting right now at that spot.
Maybe you could make that case for X receiver that's
sort of still up in the air. Other than that,
I pretty much know who's starting everywhere on this team
right now. It feels like now for the most part,
they're like starting caliber players. Right The question is is
are they starting caliber players or are they really like
elite players, you know, maybe they're still missing some of that,

(51:22):
you know, edge rusher. I think it's one spot outside
receivers another spot where they could probably use still a
talent upgrade there.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I think those are the two, and I mean, we'll
see what happens in right tackle, but I think going
into when we start doing the draft, those are the
two spots we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
And then the other thing is just depth, and that
was the next thing I wanted to talk about. Defensive
line depth, inside linebacker depth. Those are two spots that
I look at with this team that until we get
into the real meata training camp and we see some
of those guys. Now, I thought that there were some flashes,
you know, Joshua Farmer, I thought flashed a couple of times,

(51:59):
especially with getting hands and passing lanes and things like that,
made a couple of bad passes down in the spring.
I really liked what I saw from Jack Gibbons a
couple of times. You pointed out a coverage rep he
had yesterday running with Javon's line five yards down the field.
But that's impressive, Yeah, with Javon Baker, So maybe he's
a guy that steps in there. We saw a lot

(52:20):
of Robert Spulaine and Christian Ellis on the second level.
That seems to be the the right now the leaders
you know in the clubhouse to start. Certainly Robert Splaine's
gonna start. We know that whether it's Ellis or if
Julna Tevai comes back. You know, obviously to has been
banged up with that calf, so he wasn't He was there,
but he wasn't working out, wasn't participating. That that depth

(52:43):
can be thinned out really quickly. And I think the
same thing with the offensive line. If Will Campbell knock
on wood, if Will Campbell has an injury, you know
you're you're back into trade.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
We talked about this like it wasn't just the starters
a tackle, they didn't have backups eas.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Right, So you know that we're still kind of in
that mode a little bit. But I wanted to focus
on the linebackers because we get tons of questions about
depth at insidelnebacker and after Splaine, what really is there.
They're really seem to be optimistic about Christian Ellis, like
I think they think he can be a weak side
linebacker and next to Spallaine, I mentioned Tobai and Gibbons.

(53:21):
After that, you're probably getting into a little bit of
great territory of whether those guys are NFL players or not.
Marte Mapu, So what do you like, linebacker? What do
you make of all that? Well, his body type certainly
fits it more in this scheme than it did in
the other scheme, because you're not in this scheme in
theory the defensive lines getting up the field. They're occupying

(53:41):
blockers and they're getting up the field with that, and
so you're not necessarily taken on guards or polers or
full backs or whatever in the whole like Juwan Bentley
Wood or a Dante High, Tower Wood or one of
those types of guys, so you can be lighter in
this defense at linebacker. I've always thought he was a linebacker,
like a modern day NFL linebacker, maybe mostly on third downs,

(54:06):
but if you can put a linebacker in that spot,
you know, a safety body type that's playing linebacker like
a Marte. Mapu just says things that you can do
in theory, in theory because of the body type and
the skill set, but things that you can do and
from a coverage standpoint with that player become a lot more.
You become a lot more flexible. You just do you know,

(54:26):
if you want to play some split safety coverage for example,
like he can run the middle of the field, you know,
with a faster receiver, with an inside receiver, with a
pass catching tight end. If you want to put him
a man to man on a running back coming out
of the backfield, then he has a little bit more
coverage upside maybe than a true linebacker like a Tavai would,
for example, to cover a decent running back coming out

(54:49):
of the backfield. There's just a little bit more that
you can do there with him in coverage. Now, I
don't necessarily see it in terms of him being like
a first down, you know, first and second down run player.
I don't know if that will work out, but if
he's in the third down package and he's playing at
the second level and the third down package, there could
be a role there for him. I've always thought that.

(55:10):
I've always felt like that's where he belonged. Yeah, it's
just a matter of what do they want with that
last linebacker spot. Do they want a downhill guy who's
kind of counter to what they have to give them
a different look, or do they want more depth for
the kind of players they have. Because if it's the
second thing, it's mopoof, it's the first thing it's to buy. Yeah,
it's a good point. Tavai and Jennings are sitting out.
We had Jennings on yesterday. He's a good guy and

(55:30):
I like Jennings, but both those guys still still kind
of stand out to me as holdovers from an old defense.
I don't mean old in age, I just mean old
the old defense in terms of what they used to do.
Are these schematic fits and what they're doing now they're
not bad football players like their NFL players like they

(55:53):
belong in the league, and everything. I just don't know
if they belong in this scheme. You know, Anthony Jennings,
is he a hand in the dirt end?

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Like?

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Probably not. You know, he's a stand up guy, He's
a set the edge guy. You know, Tavai is in
that hybrid role that I don't know if that exists
as much anymore. So those two guys definitely still stand out.
I could hear it with Tavai two in terms of
that as well. So you're right, you know, if they
want to really turn this over at linebacker to just
all two thirty two, twenty five and under type of linebackers,

(56:25):
and that's not him, you know, he's not going to
be on the team.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
But again, I think there's something to be said for
having a guy that's maybe a little bit different for
certain situations.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yeah, agreed. Now, the other spot on the defense that
I thought was interesting is what they were doing in
the slot. They're they're putting a lot of different guys
in the slot, a lot of different body types in
the slot. Some safeties, some big corners, some small corners
like Marcus Jones, a little bit like Pop Douglas. I
thought there was a there was some chatter about Marcus
Jones and does he still fit because of the type

(56:52):
of slot corner he is. I thought he had a
really nice spring. I still feel like he's in people's
hip pockets all the time in coverage. They used him
outside too, Yeah, as a strap player. So I think
Marcus Jones is going to be here. Certainly has a role,
you know, whether it's fifth or sixth defensive back slash
punt returner, that's enough.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Of a you know, Josh McDaniels is itching to get
involved on offense too. I also think, like I think
some of that conversation like, oh, he's in a contract here,
is he gonna get a second contract? I don't know,
but he'll be here this year. Like he's not a
guy you rush off the roster.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
But I was intrigued by some of the different body
types that they were throwing at the slot position. Isaiah
Bolden and Marcel's dial got a decent amount of run inside.
Alex Austin, Alex Austen, Jail Pepper's got some run yesterday
in the slot. Craig Woodson was playing a little bit
in the slot at times. So they're clearly and they've
said it, they clearly are looking for somebody to be

(57:43):
a big slot and be someone that will be a
little bit bigger and have a little bit more sturdiness
to him than Marcus Jones. And to me though that
I don't necessarily know if that's going to be a
full time thing as more is it's gonna be game
plan and packagedify. So if they're going to play Miami, right,
if you're going up against a team that plays a

(58:05):
lot of bass, like you know, you know, a lot
of regular whether it's two tight ends or a full
back or something like that, Yeah, like you might want
to be a little bit bigger. You might want to
have a Jabiro Peppers in the slot or Craig Woodson
in the slot instead of a Marcus Jones in the slot.
Miami's actually one of those teams that does it. And
then that's how they win is they have the speed
on the outside with the bigger personnel on the inside,

(58:26):
and it's tough to match up against. So a lot
of these teams do that now where they put big
people on the field and then they throw out of
those big groupings and that's where they get you. You're
in your base personnel, you only have four dbs on
the field, but they have speed and they have playmaking
at receivers still even with a full back or an
extra tight end on the field. So where they go

(58:47):
with that, I think it's going to be a lot
of mixing and matching. But they're clearly looking to see
what's our best combination so that when we want to
go to the big nickel look, or we want to
go to a big slot, who's going to be the
big slot and who's going to be the best one
that role. I kind of could see it with your
real Peppers a little bit. I thought he did it
yesterday and did it pretty well. Craig Woodson had a

(59:08):
really strong camp. I don't know where they put him,
whether he's in the back end or they see him
as a slot guy as well. You know, maybe it's
one of those corners that we mentioned too. Where who
do you think is the best fit for that type
of role right now on this team? For the slock mark, Yeah,
for the big slot corner, the big slot, who's the
best fit?

Speaker 2 (59:27):
I mean, I think Alex Austin's the best player, but
I think some of that is there's value and he
can be your third boundary corner and backup slot slash
big slot like counter to Marcus Jones.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
So that saves you a roster spot.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
But you know, is he as good in the slot
as Marcella's Dial? Probably not, But Dial's not going to
give you what Austin gives you on the outside. So
I think they might end up keeping both of them
and Bolden like they might keep six corners. I'm not
rolling that out, but and I've said this, I kind
of want to see Asa a Bolden play safety.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
I think he'd be good at.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I think Alex Austin makes the most sense. Dial's probably
the best pure slot corner of the group. But you know,
if we're talking about somebody to start, if we're talking
about somebody to be a counter to Marcus Jones and
be depth Alex Austin because he can do so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what they go with that.
But there they threw a lot of different bodies in
that position to try to find the best combination, at
least to experiment right now with those combinations. So they're
gonna have a big nickel look like a three safety nickel.
It's just whether you know who's gonna be where it
is really good question. Who's going to be that nickel
player will be fascinating. It's it's a really cool evolution

(01:00:37):
to me just to get into like the nickel defender
in the slot role a little bit. It's a cool
evolution throughout the league of how that position has evolved.
The Patriots deserve the credit. Josh McDaniels really deserves the credit.
The two thousand and seven Patriots changed everything. They went
eleven personnel with the slot receiver Wes Welker, and they
forced teams to put a cornerback in the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Well, let's not forget they were able to do that
because the two thousand and three Patriots changed everything because
they were so dominant physically that it changed the rules
which allowed you to send a five ft ten over
the middle, which would have been unthinkable before that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
So you get the you got eleven personnel, the three
wide receivers, you have the player in the slot. So
now the slot corner becomes a thing where they need
a man to man slot corner that can guard a
Wes Welker, that can guard a Julian Edelman, so on
and so forth. So that happens that of all, as
everybody kind of catches up with that. I would also
give Belichick, and I don't think he gets enough of

(01:01:35):
this credit from like a coaching perspective. When Patrick Chunk
came back the second time and he turned Patrick Chung
into a tight end stopper and started putting him man
to man on tight ends and playing him in the
box as that moneybacker, that I think that revolutionized it
again where Patrick Chung. So you had Patrick Chung doing
that and that sort of thing on tight ends and

(01:01:56):
playing in the box as a safety, and then we
sort of got into this iteration of the slot defender,
which is turning a lot more into safety body types
playing the slot because you have all the Shanahan inspired
teams that are running outside zone all the time. So
now the slot corners at the point of attack all
the time. The slot you know, defender nickel back is
at the point of attack in the run game because

(01:02:18):
they're trying to get outside the numbers in the run game.
So now it's like, all right, well, we originally we
needed to cover one hundred and eighty pound jitterbug slot receiver,
so we're worried about that. So the Jonathan Joneses of
the world emerge, right, and those guys become important now,
k Kyle Arrington. Now the outside zone world has taken over.

(01:02:42):
So you got tackles and guards and blocking tight ends
that are getting up on one hundred and eighty pounds
slot corners. Well, that ain't gonna work, so they out
now all of a sudden, like the you know Cheucey
Gardner Johnson types, like the safety slots, Yeah, start to
become thing. Brian Branch, you know in Detroit, he starts
to become a thing. And now you need to be
a little bigger there, and you need to be able

(01:03:02):
to take on a blocker and you'll be at side
and bigger slot receivers like it got like Jacobey Mitay. Yeah, yeah,
it's good point too. You know, bigger slot receivers, pass
catching tight ends that are really just receivers, right, you
know Dalton Concaid types that are truly just pure receivers.
So you have all these different things that are going on,
and it's cool how the game is so cyclical like that.

(01:03:23):
And now the Patriots are sort of in this different
type of defense and now they're looking for their Brian Branch,
Like who's going to be that slot safety that's going
to be able to play that role, you know, is
it Peppers, is it Dugger or is it Woodson? Is
it someone like that that's already on the team or
is this something that we look at in twenty six
Not that I want to lose that many games, but
Caleb downs, well, I mean now they're back in the

(01:03:44):
top ten tops hopefully not. Yeah, So that that's a
I mean maybe that's just me, but I can find
that kind of stuff cool.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
No, the whole you know, I could do hours on that,
the history of the game evolving and all that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Last thing on the list, very bottom of the I
have like ten things listed out on my rundown. Here,
we get it. You don't care, and it is the
very last thing on the list, and I'm gonna see
you up for it. Andy Borgoalis, looks like you can kick. Yeah,
looks good. Yeah he was.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
You had a really good spring, closed it out yesterday,
went four to four, drill to fifty one yarder. I
think they're gonna keep John Parker Romo one just to
keep the pressure on and keep the competition up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
In two.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
I think they're gonna want him on the practice squad.
Is Essentially a lot of teams use a practice squad
now to have a backup kicker. You're not gonna have
two kickers on the fifty three, right, But now you
have a guy that has worked with your long snapper
and your holder and his experienced and it's kind of
tough to cut the guy and you know, mid August,
only to then bring him back after roster cuts if
he's even still around, and we'll come back.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
So I think Parker Romo is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Going to be here, and with him being here, there
will be a kicker competition. They will both be kicking
and we'll obviously track it. But Borgalis has advertised so far.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
So my question for you about kick it is not
necessarily about that because Borgolis what missed one kick in
the practices? I think it was nineteen for twenty, so
that is a number. I think Brian Hines put that
one out yesterday. So Ben Dynamite, Now, there's no live
rush right, truly live rush right, And there's no pressure
really like there's some pressure, but we're not talking about

(01:05:20):
eighty thousand people in Jillette Stadium in Week one, you know,
game winning kick pressure. So those are still unknowns, right,
You know whether he's gonna when he kicks with a
rush against him if it's just as good. But with
what we've been able to see, he's been great. Do
you have a like do you have weight on kickers too,
to like gauge that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Well, the big thing with him is the weather, right,
And that's I mean, we can't no, we can't get it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
That's not a training camp thing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
That's on an early season thing like it's gonna Although
who knows the way these saturdays have been. Maybe we
will get to see him kick in fifty and raining
in July. Yeah, but that's just good. We're gonna have
to cross operation we come to it. I said this
at the draft. I liked his approach. When he was
asked about it, he did downplay it. He didn't because
I hate it when guys like, well, you know, they
get asked on that. Well, you know, kicking's kicking. Well okay,

(01:06:06):
but part of kicking is adjusting to the elements, and
the same for any position, whether it be in any sport.
You know, you hear baseball players well you know in
the plane in the cold, Oh, you know, we get you.
You know, we play one hundred and sixty two games team,
but they're not all the same. So he didn't downplay it.
He said, yeah, I understand why people have that question,
but I'm looking forward to proving people wrong, which means
he understands it's gonna be adjustment. He understands's gonna be different.

(01:06:28):
You hope he's kind of mentally wired right that he
just goes about it business wise and doesn't let it
bother him. But that's just something we're gonna have to
see when we see it. There's really no way unless
they have a really, really really large walk in freezer
here that we don't know about that they can empty out.
That's just gonna be something that we're gonna have to
see when it comes up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Is it that crazy to go Rocky style and go
in the walk in freezer? Because I've always thought that that,
But it's a possibility, right, Like why not?

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
So the Saints did that with their quarterbacks I think
last year before they played the package, So why not?
Like they cleaned it out and they brought a cup
a receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
They have the bubble right, and it's just like how
we get as cold as you possibly don't think you
can get that bubble that cold because it's it's not
like maybe the maybe the new facility will have like
temperature control. So that's what I'm wondering.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Can you get it because you also need significant size
because you got to be able to make sure the
kicks work. Could you create a golf simulator type room
for a kicker where you don't need to see the
ball flight because it's track, but you can also get
the room really cold, or you put fans on the
walls to simulate wind, or something like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
The VR type stuff right where they have the v V.
You have to feel it, Yes, you have to feel
the cold furniture thing. Have you ever been to that thing?
Shuns right, it's called I think it's called mom it's
and it's like you could like feel the wind in
your face.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Like on the Oh yeah, well they have I don't
know if they haven't been in a while. They used
to have at the hall where you could do the vinetaries.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
They still have. It needs to be just that, but
close it in so you can make it. You need to.
They need to update that a little bit. It's seen
it's better days, but they still have it. But the technology,
you know, they could say so updated do that, but
make it actually feel like January two thousand and two,
before that blizzard or in that blizzard, and then let

(01:08:17):
him go kicking that you get fake snow, you put
it on the ground, Like, I think it's a good idea. Yeah,
I think it's you got to do it right. I mean,
he's not going to feel that until November December the earliest.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Now, you got to hope that if he's kicking in
a snowstorm, that it snows during the week so he
can get out there during the week and kind of
experiment and work with it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Let's face it, if he's kicking during a snowstorm, with
the way that our weather has been true, they're playing
in the championship, yeah, or something like, they're playing deep
into the playoffs, which is uh, which is good anyways,
Right if hopefully he makes a kick, but it will
be good anyways. Uh all right, So we're gonna open
up the phones and the emails now and I will
take your calls. I see you guys waiting on hold.

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very much. All right, let's get to these phones. Hopefull
you guys are still there. Chad is in LA. What's up? Chad? Hey?

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
How are you guys?

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
Thank you good?

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
How are you Chad?

Speaker 6 (01:10:24):
My question is offense defense. I'm getting a little bit
of feedback, so I apologize if I'm a little stuttered.
My defense question is, with everything looking the way that
it's looking, are, can we confidently say potentially top five
top ten defense this year?

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
If they want to get a top five like key
On White's kind of take a pretty significant jump.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Yeah, I think that's a lot. That's I mean, they
were you need dugg Er and Peppers to both be
fully healthy. It's a little lofty.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Yeah, it's a top five every single what if goes
their way with the schedule they have, they could sneak
in the top five, but it would take a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:11:04):
Okay, So our offense is competing on a daily basis
against a really good defense on a regular bait, right,
you know?

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 6 (01:11:15):
Okay, So my my question then is this, so they're
gonna they're gonna be battle ready. Has Campbell's arms shown
any issue whatsoever since all of the hype during the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
I would say that he's gotten better with every practice, honestly.
I mean, I try to watch him as much as
I can. H I wish that we could watch film
a practice because it's always hard with the line of scrimmage,
a lot of moving bodies and flashes of color and
things like that in there. But I felt like you
got better at each practice. And the one thing that
I definitely saw him making real strides with was protecting

(01:11:51):
his inside. That was the biggest issue with him in college.
He get opened up and then he'd get crossed inside,
whether with an inside counter or like a spinner or
a crossover or something like that. I thought he did
a better job of that of staying inside out and
not drifting off of his set as a camp went
on here. So we'll see when the pads come on.
But no, I wouldn't say that it was majorly. Sometimes

(01:12:12):
I could see guys getting into his body, but he's
got such a great anchor that I didn't see it
was as a huge deterrent, at least so far. Yeah.
I mean it's it's non padded practice, so it's a
little early to say yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:12:27):
And then if I could ask one more question, if
our olne is challenging, that affects our running game, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean that that And thanks for the call, Chad,
and thanks for waiting that. That's where I'm at with
the line. I don't I'm not trying to be alarmist
about it yet. It's not in that level of it
wasn't like last year like you brought brought up earlier.
We're ways away from that, luckily. But that's that's the
engine of your offense. I know everybody gets bored by

(01:12:55):
the offensive line talk and stuff, but truly, uh, you
cannot call every thing if you don't have a good
offensive line, like you just there are things on the
playsheet that you're just eliminated, you know, the longer developing
plays obviously, but there also might be run plays that
you're just not good enough to execute, and the more
complex run schemes, and so then it just narrows the

(01:13:16):
scope of the things that you can call, and that
makes you predictable and easy to scout and all that
kind of stuff. So it's a huge part of it,
the run game, the pass game, all of it. It's
not just pass protection though, so it's a good point
of by the caller. That's a big part of it.
And the best run games truly are the most diverse,
like the ones that can call you know, a pluthor

(01:13:37):
of runs like Detroit under Ben Johnson. I mean, my god,
their run game install must have been like a like
a phone book, right, like they just said, you have
all these different types of runs and you have no
limitations with the personnel up front, so you can just
do whatever you want. And that's just a lot of
things that adds a lot to the table. And you hope,
you know, Will Campbell's are really athletic, high end run

(01:14:00):
blocker as a prospect, and you hope that he's one
of those types of tackles that now he's not going
to be Penny Suol, but like you hope that he
is one of those types of guys from cut from
that same clot that he can pull and he can
get out in front of blocks and he can you know,
reach front side on the outside zone and like he
can't allow you to have more range to your run game.
That would be great. That's exactly what you're what I'm

(01:14:21):
looking for out of him in year one, you know,
to go back to the question about Campbell pass protection
is probably gonna have some hits and misses for him.
I would say year one, as he learns his body,
learns how to you know, get away with the shorter
arms and like all that kind of stuff, there might
be some losses there early. But can he really be
a day one impact run blocker, because he should be.

(01:14:43):
That's what he was at LSU, and then he should
be that in the NFL. If he's that already out
of the gate, then I'll be really optimistic about where
they're at with Will Campbell. All right, Nate is in Connecticut.
What's up? Nate?

Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
Hey, guys guys here you well, yes, we got you. So,
like my question to you guys is, well, hold on. First,
I'll say it is my second to last day of school.
Very excited. So I'm going to talk about something that
excites me, and that is our cornerback room. What I
really think. I think we have a really strong room

(01:15:16):
with the addition to Carlton Davis and of course the
main star Christian Zalees and Marcus Jones, and then uh
maybe Alex Austin on the outside and sometimes in the slot.
But my main thing is that where would you rank
our cornerback room like in the league? Like is it
top five?

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Top ten?

Speaker 5 (01:15:37):
Because I know we're getting compared to a lot of
duos like Derek Stingley and then you have Pats their
Tan and.

Speaker 7 (01:15:43):
The Bronx and the new Broncos DV.

Speaker 5 (01:15:46):
But yeah, where where you guys thought on where the
Pats cornerback room stands across the league? Thank you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Thanks for the calling Nate and congrats on ending school.
Yeah like that because you know he's he's cool and
he calls catch twenty two during school. Awesome. Maybe I
don't know where do they rank and quarterback. It's a
good question. I haven't necessarily looked at. Yeah, I don't know,
but the other team's de charge off the top of
my head is high. Yeah, yeah, it's the duo is

(01:16:14):
high for sure. I mean it's a second team All
Pro corner and a really good corner in Carlton Davis.
So I would say the duo is high. Uh, I
think they have a chance to be in that conversation, certainly,
and they definitely have a chance to be one of
the best man coverage groups in the league, maybe already
are the best man coverage group in the league. Denver
has a good one.

Speaker 4 (01:16:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
Pat Sartan will obviously hold that down. They have a
good all the all the corners by the team. Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
Christian Benford, Maxwell Harrison about Storm Duck, Jalen Ramsey's not
gonna be there, Yeah, Sauce Gardner, Brandon Stevens, Nate Wigan, No, No, Denzel.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
War Martin Emerson not bad. It wasn't bad. Darius Slade,
Joey Porter, not bad.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
Him still taking the Patriots there, Stingley, Kamari Lassiter's up
there right, D'Angelo ross is on the Texans, former Patriot
Pats er Tan Riley Moss, Chris Abrams, Draine in the slot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
I mean that's pretty good. I'd say Denver's probably Rileys
really good player too.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Yeah, Kansas City is Christian Fulton, Jalen Watson.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Why isn't is he hurt McDuffie or maybe this isn't
including slot corners? Well, he plays a little bit on that,
that's true. It's a good group two. Yeah, Trayvon Diggs
here elam No keey Ringo Quinny and Mitchell Dorri Jackson,
Eli Rix. I mean that's a good Philly Philly.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
And then what's his name? Is counting him as a safety?

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
I think all right, they're probably I don't think this
includes slot corners, so maybe this isn't the best thing
to go off of.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
I can't think of his damn name. I have a kid. Yeah,
I know, Cooper Gen Cooper Deen like literally, yeah, Mike
Sayner still, marsha On Lattimore's not bad, but I'm still
taking Yeah, the Patriots, it's probably it's Denver. Probably Moss
and Patrick Startan are a really good duo.

Speaker 6 (01:18:07):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
I saw J. C.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
Horn cool Aid McKinstry next to each other, but they're
on different teams, so that's not it. Uh Yeah, I
mean that's pretty much it. Look I the Patriots are
right there with anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Along those lines.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
I'll ask you this because I've been asked this to
bring it up je or Alexander, at least by the Packers.
I don't get the like I see some Patriots fans
really clamoring for it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Where's he? What's the plan there so he could play,
he could play Nickel. Is he gonna come here and
play Nickel though? Or I don't know. So, like he's
a boundary corner. Just I love Jeor Alexander. I do too.
He's a really good player, but so was he he
was nineteen draft. I want to say he was one
of our first drafts that I was really covering the
NFL and covering the team, and I was horrible at

(01:18:56):
evaluating whatever word you want to use. I know people
get all up in arms when I say scout, So
I won't say that I was horrible at it. Twenty eighteen,
I'm sure, yeah, I was very I was, you know,
young buck, trying to do this, trying to fake it
till I bake it. But I saw JayR. Alexander's tape
at louis Ville and was just like, that's a dog.
So is a heck of a corner. And he ended
up being as good of a player as I thought

(01:19:17):
he would be. In he's a stud. But he's been injured.
He's been consistently injured for like three or four years now.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
He's also progressively played fewer percentage of his snaps in
the slot every year last year he played three thirty
one on the boundary, just fourteen in the slot.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Like he's a boundary corner. So it's a name, you know,
every time this comes about, I know, but it's gonna happen,
That's what I'm saying. Like, and there are names they
could add.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
I'm not saying they don't need to add, but like,
first off, the guys I look at right away if
you're gonna make that kind of splash move, and it
would be a splash move, yeah, Trey Henderson, t J.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Watt, and I don't know that of those guys are
where they are, Like you, Gyr, you are just signing him.
So what about Jayalen Ramsey? Because Jaalen Ramsey can play
the slot, he can play some safety. At this point,
Ramsey is probably in my mind, the best slot corner
in the NFL. He doesn't play there all the time.
He does play a little bit on the outside still,
but when you use him in that like and he

(01:20:08):
has experienced doing he's yeah, it's like two hundred STAPs.
You know. Some teams call it different things. You know,
Star is probably the most common one. When he plays
that star role, like he's he's awesome at it. He's
really really good.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
That's the guy. And is Miami gonna trade him or
they're gonna release him?

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Might be a post June one designation guy, So that's
if he haven't traded him yet. There's probably not a
huge market.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
If he gets cut. And I think Jeier Alexander is
a better player at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
I think Ramsey might be a better player because Jeer
Alexander has but he's just hurt. He hasn't really I
guess health assume.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Yeah, like Jeer Alexander, I think at this point is
Ramsey just peak was a better player.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
But I'm just saying Ramsey is a better investment because
he's so this.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
This is what I'm getting at Madden rating, Jeer Alexander
is probably higher. Who's a better fit for the Patriots
right now? If you're gonna add one of those two guys,
I think it's Jalen Ramsey and I don't think it's close.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
I think it's Jalen Ramsey on both things, but it's
it doesn't matter. That's not here nor there. Jalen Ramsey
is a really good player still, and the fact that
he has that twilight of his career option of moving
inside to the slot because he's so instinctive and he's
such a great playmaker inside that he just as it
knows for the football. Yeah, he would be a great fit.

(01:21:14):
Jalen Ramsey. Honestly, now, I don't know if he was
run available. Miami is not trading him here, No, he
probably have to get cut. Yeah. Well, then again, they
traded Devonte Parker here. Well, I think that's a different Well,
but if they're clearly done with Ramsey, I mean I
don't actually I haven't followed that one close enough for
they've done with him or is he done with them?
I think it's a little bit of ball. So they.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Remember when they got him from the Rams and everybody
talked about that was the end of the AFC East
ever being competitive Jalen Ramsey, So, well, it was kind
of a it's been a messy marriage from the beginning,
if I have my facts. Trade here, he got traded
to Miami from the Rams, like you said, and he
played in Vic Fangio's defense, yeah, the very first year.

(01:21:56):
And Vic Fangio is not a matchup guy. He is
do what we do, play sides. Everybody's got their side
of the field. That they're gonna play and he's not
a he's not like a shadow guy, he's not a
travel guy. And Jalen Ramsey didn't like it. He took
exception to it, was vocally public about it and said that,

(01:22:17):
you know, I'm Jalen Ramsey essentially like I want to
do the whole revis tylaw thing like I got you,
you know, cat cover cat coverage, as Mike Rabel called it,
like that's the way he wants to play, and they
didn't want him to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
They wanted him to play his side of the field
and play his role and that sort of thing. So
he butted heads with Vic Fangio Vic Fangio leaves and
then last year I thought that they did that more
and they are more creative with his usage, and he
was doing more he wanted to be doing. So I
don't know what the hold up is now. A contract
probably would be my guest, like he's getting expensive and
he's getting older, so maybe it's it's some sort of contract.

(01:22:51):
I always hate to use cap casualty because it's really
not what it is, but maybe it's something like that.
I haven't looked up the exact particulars of why he's Yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Doesn't really and it doesn't really say but it looks
like he wants out. Yeah, they've also got to figure
out they got a whole thing on their hands with
John who Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
That was a long winded way of saying that it
doesn't feel like the coaching staff has nailed it with
Jalen Ramsey. Yeah, like they haven't really exactly. And when
I say nailed it eight, he hasn't been thrilled with
his usage and and like the defense and the scheme
that they're running and all that kind of stuff. I'll
tell you you're anti Mike McDaniel. We know that you

(01:23:29):
don't want as a head coach. Yeah, you don't like him?

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
I do think, well, no, because this is where we
always gets twisted. He's a good play designer. He's a
very good play designer.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
He is. I will give him credit for that. I
don't like him as a head coach. So I watched
his press conference the other day. Yeah, he looks a
little bit like a beaten man. Like he looks he's
he's very you know, he used to be this like
vibrant guy, this big personality. Uh maybe even to a
detriment at times he's feeling you can feel the hot

(01:23:58):
butt almost like he was hired to that king early
and he's in overseas and you feel the seat warmer
on that guy. I wonder who said that that that
might be the case. It's tough when for them, and
I know this is in Dolphins Catch twenty two, but
they are a division. It is tough for them that
they just can't keep to a healthy Like if I'm

(01:24:18):
not saying they would have won the super Bowl, then stop.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
But they've also had a couple of decent backup quarterbacks
that they just get rid of. Sure, but like invest
if you know you have an injury prone quarterback, invest
in a good backup.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
When they win to a plays, they are like a
ten to eleven win pace team. That's not the differentiator.
And he's I think he is a differentiator because of
how they run their offense. Like their offense is so
motion heavy and it's so multiple and all these different
things that you need a true to a esque trigger
man like Tua is a point guard. He's not a

(01:24:50):
he's not an overlease like toolsy quarterback. He's not Josh
Allen or you know, Mahomes or Lamar right where he's
got these crazy physical tools. He's more of like that
point G distributor, and they the way that offense hums
when he's out there is just different than what they
has been with their backups, so that that's not just
to let them off the hook, like they have a

(01:25:10):
fragile quarterback and they don't necessarily account for it the
way if they should with a reliable backup. But they're
a ten to eleven win paced team. They're a playoff
team with two and they're not without them. Right, it's
that simple. What year did McDaniel get there?

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
Again?

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Oh man, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty twenty ish, I
want to say it's like the third or fourth year.
So the thing I'm trying to find is the real differentiator.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
So here it is against teams over or under five hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
I gotta look up the year here. This is why
it's not Dolphins catch twenty two because we don't know the.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
I want to say it was twenty it was twenty two, Okay, Yeah,
So since twenty twenty two, the Dolphins against teams under
five hundred, five and three, ten and one, seven and
four against teams over five hundred which gave for five
one in five, one in five. They can't beat good

(01:26:07):
team two has played in these games. Will because there's
the other thing about to his record in the cold.
I'll give you that they can't beat good teams and
they can't beat teams with the cold because shocker Mike
mcdanne refuses to make any adjustments about anything.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Ever, I don't think it's that. I really don't, and
I know we get into this argument philosophically all the time.
It's still in your school, though, what I think my
biggest criticism of the Dolphins, My biggest criticism of the
Dolphins is that they can't beat the good teams because
they get killed in the trenches. They get murdered every time.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Especially they're all good teams are usually good in the
trenches right there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
They just they are not a physical football team. So
they don't play well in the cold. They don't play
well against good teams that are built in the mid
through the trenches. They don't, you know, they don't play
well in those situations. Their offensive line has been terrible
for basically like two or three years now, as bad
as the Patriots in some ways, and a big reason
why is because they don't invest in it. You know,
they don't draft people, know, they don't really invest highly. Now,

(01:27:02):
they drafted an offensive lineman this year, right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
Defensive linean didn't they take the kid from Michigan Kenneth Grant.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
You're right they did. Yeah, Now they need to run defense.
That was a bit, That's a part of it. It's
both sides of the ball. They needed to be sure
up the middle. But they just feel they're like allergic
to drafting a good offensive lineman. And it's worse this
year because Toront Armstead retired. So it's like they don't
have I don't even think they have a starting left
tackle that you feel great about right now. They have

(01:27:28):
invested in speed on the outside, you know, Hill and Waddle,
obviously John new Smith. That tight end was an investment.
They are heavily invested in their backfield like they're running
backs like a chan and those guys they that's all
they care about. This is to your point. They care
about the skill players, and they care about the scheme,
and they don't care about the trenches, and they just

(01:27:48):
get bullied by these good teams and the trenches. It's
tough so to.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
Against teams over five hundred or sorry, yeah, against teams
over five hundred six and thirteen since since Mike McDaniel
got there, against teams over five under five hundred nineteen
and three nineteen and three against under five hundred six
and thirteen against it. So it it too is a

(01:28:15):
part of that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
It's not all of it, but it is a part
of Okay, So I want to hear they're starting projected
offensive line. This is our lads, Debtha Winstill No, I
thought it was. He started from the last year. It's
not good. Okay, So here's their starting five on the
offensive line. Tell me if this is better or worse
than the Patriotskay, your boy Patrick paul I left tackle.
I do like Patrick did not play really as ad

(01:28:37):
play last Yeah, a total unknown. Isaiah Win is maybe
on the Dolphins. Keep going. James Daniels, who's a veteran
free agent signing over from Pittsburgh, was a good player.
But it's been heard so that would have been their
West s White Seri equivalent. He's a little bit better.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
Then, we'll call that, all right, So we'll give that
one of the Dolphins. They know left guard, that's left guard.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
We'll give that one. Of the Dolphins. Aaron Brewer at
center is a really good player, so give him that.
He's good. Here's one that was Patriot adjacent Jonas right
now projected starting right guard. I'll take Austin Jackson at
right tackle. I'll take more Moses. That might be the
worst offensive line. Not good, it's not good. Brewers are

(01:29:17):
really good center. And then what's there about it? Like, uh,
not great? Any names that we'd even recognize that? Jackson
Carmen is still kicking around the league. He's backing up
at guard. Liam Eichenberg still Kaaran Irad has been a
huge bus for them. Yeah. Uh, Andrew Meyer is like
a veteran journeyman center. He's kind of like a West Tweitzerka.
He's in that mold. The one good player on their

(01:29:39):
offensive line that I feel good about. Jonah will be
a good player, but he's Aaron Brews a really good center,
like top five, top ten centers in the league. But
other than that, you're you're looking at a bunch of Yeah,
that's not pretty, and they don't they Their highest draft
pick was Jonaho's a high second round pack well, because
they just want fast guys and offense aren't fast. They
want Chop Robinson and they want athletes on offense, like

(01:30:00):
that's what they're looking at. All right, let's get back
to the phones. Uh At, it was a full Dolphins minute.
And I feel like like we don't have to be
like glass houses anymore because I feel like the Patriots
are kind of in a good spot. So I don't
better than that offensive line wise, they might be better. Honestly,
that might be the worst offensive line in the NFL.
All right, Emories in Virginia. What's up, Emory?

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
Yes, good afternoon, Jim. Enjoy your show man. Hey, I
got a couple of questions here. What have you seen
from Kobe minor anything? I'll take anything if you've seen
anything from Nick Kids and my last one, My last
one is a fante Samuel s has the Patriots closed

(01:30:43):
the door on him? The kind of had a Hall
of Fame career as far as his total career, and
he has some good years here with New England Patriots.
Help me out, what do you mean.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
By closing the door, like in terms of like alumni stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
Or yeah, alumna stung. I haven't seen in any games,
no conversation from you guys or all of anybody realt.
Nobody talks about Asante sam You've seeing it, and I
thought the guy had an amazing career Hall of Fame
work over fifteen interceptions, seven returns for touchdowns. He owned

(01:31:18):
the NFC in NFL postseason interception return for touchdowns. He
owns that and two Super Bowls.

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
Yeah, it's a fair point, Emory, Thanks for the call.
I I know it didn't end great with Bill and Sante,
so that it might stem from that Bill's not here anymore,
So maybe there's an opportunity to iron out that relationship
again now that that he's not around anymore. Rabel must
must have played with Sante Samuel right today? He was

(01:31:50):
he was on seven seven? Yeah, yeah, so last year, yeah,
I think he was here. I think they overlapped, so maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Two years uh or no, yeah, they overlapped for a while.
Rabel was here one oh eight, Samuel was here three
zero seven.

Speaker 4 (01:32:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
I thought it was the Vergificantly Yeah, yeah so maybe yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Well, I also wonder if that question is we were
just talking about the slot corners, like a Sante Samuel
Junior still a free agent.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
Yeah, so I've seen some people bring him up as
a potential fit. Yeah, what was the first thing Zobe minor?
Kobe Minor he had. He's been in that opportunity group.
I didn't really see anything eye bobbing from him, but
just in terms of where he's playing and who he's
playing with. He's been sort of with that with that
third group, I would say for most of minicamp, which
isn't surprising, you know. So it was like Marcus Bryan

(01:32:36):
was like, you know, playing in that that spot, would
tackle with a lot of Ben Woolridge reps and stuff
like that with him. Yeah, so similar. All right, Uh,
William is in Philly. What's up, William? Haven't heard from
you in a while.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
It's been a while. How you doing good? Yeah? Well,
I just wanted I didn't get a chance that the
talk about far as the real fast just I was
very pleased. I was pleased. Uh, will Campbell, I understand it, Evan,
you know I was. I was a little against it,

(01:33:10):
but I understand we needed a tackle. I like to
running back and Kyle was a Kyle Williams the wide receiver. Yeah,
I said, okay, okay, I like free agency everything I have.
If Bill was doing this, it probably wouldn't went this
way though, But I was very pleased. I have no

(01:33:31):
complaints of anything.

Speaker 4 (01:33:32):
I just.

Speaker 3 (01:33:35):
Still looking trying to for that true number one. And
that's just the take I wish you want to have
with Alex will Fast. I know we in twenty twenty five.
I know his name is, is it John Mayors?

Speaker 4 (01:33:47):
S missed?

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
If I'm staying right, he doesn't come out.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
To Jeremiah Smith. Yeah, you gonna ask about wide reserves
next year. So Jeremiah Smith's twenty seven, right, and Ryan Williams.
Those are the two best receivers in college football. They're
both another year.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
Do you see Mark Wave was moving up to get them,
I mean to get one of them. Maybe that's our
chance to finally get a true number one.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
I mean two years from now hopefully, or you know,
by the time we get there twenty twenty seven draft,
that's year three of Drake May right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Doing my math right there, Yeah, they should be a
playoff team. They shouldn't be this year four we're going
into here, or year four of Drake.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
May Yeah, they should not be in a spot where
they can trade up that I mean, those guys will
both gonna be top five picks. They shouldn't be in
a spot where they can trade up to the top five.
I think I can give you some names this year
if you want, if they're in a position now. Granted,
I think I said this about who was it a
couple of years ago, and I was like, if they're
in a position draft and they it's not good.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
Yeah, I'll say that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
About Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams if they're in a
position draft those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Something went wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
As good as those players are right, this year's draft
is weird just because some of the top receivers are
true juniors. So are they gonna come out? Are they
gonna go back to school? One name I've heard a lot,
so Carnel Tait is the guy you like from Ohio
State and they got to.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
Get an X.

Speaker 5 (01:35:13):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
Antonio Williams from Clemson is so many people have talked about.
I think he's an inside guy. He's a good player,
but he's more redundant than he get that true X.
Carnel Tate from Ohio State is a big name, and
I think he's a senior.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
I think he's coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
Denzel Boston from Washington is another name you'll hear a
lot he is really that traditional, big, physical X. I
haven't done a ton of work, so this is a
very light comparison. Don't take this gospel.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
It will probably change.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
But that is your sort of tech McMillan kind of player,
the guy I really like. And he is a true
junior and his quarterback's a true junior. So I don't know.
They may stay and I'm gonna be watching this all year.
Jordan Tyson from Arizona State, he.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
Is, yeah, he is.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
I don't know if I can let you go. You
don't have to stay odd for this whole explanation, I
don't want to. I don't want to hold you, but
uh yeah, Jordan Tyson is like he's big, but he's
not so big that he's lumbering, right. He's got good speed,
he's quick, he's got great ball skills. He's just really young.
And so there's a lot of variation there. And I
think I said this about Tet McMillan last year, who

(01:36:18):
came out as a true junior. A lot of the hype, right,
there is projection, right, this kid is going to turn
twenty one in August. So what you know we're talking about, Well,
this is what he's on the path to become If
he becomes that guy, you're talking about, somebody who's a
top ten, top fifteen pick and can play the X
and be a legitimate playmaker in the NFL. There are
also guys that have been at this point in their

(01:36:38):
career that have that hype that they just don't take
that next step. He's got a good quarterback in Sam Levitt.
It's a really rising program, fast rising program at Arizona State.
They've done a great job with player development. I think
he's in good hands there. I think Hines Ward is
actually their wide receivers coach. I know he wasn't one point,
but I feel like it was around in this time
last year. I did this, this feel about Tet McMillan.

(01:37:00):
So this is this is the guy that I'm kind
of behind. As we start the season.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
It can change. There's a whole other season to go.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
But if we're talking about a first round receiver for
the Patriots in twenty twenty six, if he comes out,
I like Jordan Tyson.

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
Okay, there you go, Okay, uh just real, just real fat.
But I know I haven't been calling like that. Whatever,
It's not that because my job is kind of a
little demanded and asking a lot of me. But but
when I'm like, I'm off to dato. So that's why
I'm able to call when I just to check it
in on y'all guys. But I'm always listening to y'all. Okay,
So I have agree and y'all take care.

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
Okay, Thanks William, it was good to hear from you.
Thanks for the kindes. Ward is the wide receivers coach
Arizona State.

Speaker 4 (01:37:37):
Still.

Speaker 1 (01:37:38):
Oh okay, that's interesting. Yeah, I really liked. Uh. You know,
I haven't watched any of these guys closely, but just
seeing Cardinal Tate in the in the college football playoff,
just one of those smooth Ohio State wide receives.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
He's in Ohio State X. He's not like JSN No.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
He's more like a laved Garrett Wilson type. Yeah, just
like smooth athletes. He's big, six', three, toy he's, big
he's got some he's got some. SKILL i think you
will Like Jordan tyson The arizona's. Take, YEAH i think
you will Like you're not it's not AND i know
all the caveats of a whole fault college football season to.

(01:38:16):
Go but this class is is not is not? Great,
right it's not? There, well it's it's similar to this, year, Right,
like it's. Not there's not A i think it's better
than this. Year there's. Not there's not A Marvin harrison,
Junior Milik. Neighbors, well here's the weird thing about this.
Class there's so many young. Guys there's so Many Red
strips sophomores And Drew junior is that there's a lot of.

(01:38:38):
Variants so there are guys that have that, upside but
they haven't played to it. Yet there's nobody going into
the season that you're hyping like. That there, is but
they're not in the draft until next. Year so but
like last, year there's more upside with this group than
there was last. YEAR'S i would, Say, so we're getting
the way ahead of ourselves with the twenty twenty. Seven
you knew it was going to happen. Eventually but has

(01:38:59):
there ever been a wide receiver going one two in the?
Draft probably, not not THAT i can think. Of, No,
NOW i Would Jeremiah smith to me IS i would
Pick Jeremiah smith Over Ryan. WILLIAMS i think he's a
little bit more physically. Imposing, Yeah Jeremiah smith And ryan's
are a lot Of Julio jones like. THAT i see

(01:39:20):
that sort of. Player he's just so freaking, good where
Like Ryan williams still looks a little his body type so.
Long Ryan williams to, me is a Good Ryan williams
is just souped.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
Up and this guy's really good AND i think HE
i think he's a better version Of DeVonta.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
Smith, yeah that's a good. Comp, yeah just from the
body type perspective and the. Place Jeremiah smith just is
just a freaking you, Know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
Jeremiah, okay you know how we always get annoyed when
people throw out generational, prospect, Right this is why we get,
annoyed because When Jeremiah smith comes, along we need a
way to describe.

Speaker 1 (01:39:54):
Him Maybe Jamar chase, TOO i GUESS i could see that.
COMP i know that gets thrown.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
Out so When Jeremiah smith got when we finished What
Jeremiah smith was a true freshman last, year, Right, Yeah
so when we finished the twenty four, draft, YES i
started looking at recruiting and the true freshman coming, in
AND i was Reading Jeremiah smith's, bio which was unbelievable
on twenty four to.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
SEVEN i was asking people about, it AND i saw
somebody said somewhere like like he's better Than Marvin Harrison.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
Junior And i'm, like, oh like a better, Prospect like
he's gonna be a BETTER nfl? Prospect is, no right,
now he's better Than Marvin Harrison, junior who everybody was
calling generational coming out of the.

Speaker 1 (01:40:35):
Draft SO i the one thing that's going to stop
them Going julio is like high school games are ON. Espn,
yeah but they, were like they were showing. Him they
do those Like friday night, lights like high school, specials
and they would go and they would Show Julio jones'
high school. Game you don't really, do like who nobody
gets that? Anymore like where? Then, yeah but that's the last. Name,

(01:40:56):
yeah DID i did she do or have one of?
THOSE i think you had. ONE i don't think he.

Speaker 2 (01:41:01):
Did he might, have like they televised some high school,
games but it wasn't because the.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
Cruits so CAN i CAN i bring this back to
to twenty? SIX i want to give you one more
thing on next.

Speaker 2 (01:41:11):
Year by the, Way Jeremiah smith is the ninth highest
rated recruit in twenty four to seven. History he is
the highest rated wide. Receiver this is since two, thousand
so this Includes Julio, jones who is the thirty seventh
highest rate of all. Time the reason they're not gonna
go one. TOO i mean they might go one, too
but if they, Don't Dylan stewart From South, carolina WHO

(01:41:34):
i know you watched because he Faced Well, Campbell Dylan
stewart is maybe it's Not Jeremy, smith maybe he's close
To Ryan, williams but like he is one of the
best edge prospects we've. Seen he get AND i mean
it's the, school but he gets a lot of comps to, clowning.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
Right and that will be the that will be will,
happen whether It's smith Or. Williams you, know someone's gonna
fall a couple OF i don't think they're gonna go one.
TOO i actually don't think they're gonna both. Go like
there's a chance that one of them, falls like slightly
just because of Positional Jeremiah smith should go one, One
yeah he. Might Jeremiah smith is. Different But Ryan williams
might go like. Six LIKE i wouldn't be, shocked you,

(01:42:10):
Know Like Milik neighbors went, Six you, know, LIKE i
don't think that's out of the. Possible can we get
back to the twenty six offseason, though because now we're
two years ahead of. Time but here's let me just
say this on. That it's that kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
Draft this is a lot of the context for the
twenty years away from. It you were gonna hear a
lot during the twenty sixth. Draft, no, okay but if
they do, this it means they can't get this guy twenty.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
Seven get ready for? That so can we can we
talk about the twenty six? Offseason? Yeah this is very
catch twenty. Two they have not played a game in
twenty five and we're talking about twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
Six but getting too far? Ahead isn't talking about the next?
Draft is talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
The draft After So nicholas And oslo norway across the.
Pond he mentions, that you, know what is the our
biggest needs heading into twenty twenty? Six like what we
think The patriots' biggest needs will be in twenty? Six
he MENTIONS x, receiver right, tackle tight. END i would
say those are all on the. List edge, rusher pass

(01:43:06):
rusher is gonna be really.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
High you know how we do like a big three
needs every. Year, yeah zooming on Our henry stays, healthy
they're probably year away from tight end on that developmental titands,
Right but that's not a big three. Thing, sure it's
the wide, receiver the right, tackle and then that pass.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
Rusher, yeah class rusher might be a little bit of
a weaker. Class SO I i know it's easy to, say, like,
oh just go drafted In, hutchinson, right like obviously that's but,
YEAH i would say a real true three down impact
pass rusher is probably there still their biggest hole when
you start to factor in positional value and like all

(01:43:41):
that kind of, Stuff, like obviously left guard is probably
they're truly their biggest hole on their depth chart right.
Now but you're not. Good hopefully they're not drafting a
left guard as high as you know in the first. Round,
well we've been down this road. Before, Yes but even
if they have a even if they're as good as
some people think they're gonna be and they're that team
that goes from worse to first or something like that

(01:44:02):
and they make the, playoffs they're picking early twenties and
they take a left guard THAT i.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Was gonna, say we've been down that road BEFORE i
WAS i know you're gonna be. Upset we've been down
that road. Before there is one pass. Rusher so some
of the names of the top right, Now Ruben bain From, MIAMI.
Jt overton From, Alabama Michael, kamara WHO i think some
people started looking at last. Year he could have come
out if that's What i'm thinking, Of Denise Dennis sutton

(01:44:27):
From Penn, state number thirty. THREE i don't know if
you recall any of him from Watching Abdul. Carter he
had he had a really good college football. Playoff he
had a really good college football. Playoff he's one of,
these like It's Penn, state freak. Athlete coach him up
on the skills kind of, thing, like that's a. Guy
if The patriots are a five hundred team or, BETTER

(01:44:47):
i think that's probably gonna be one of the guys
we're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:44:49):
About, YEAH i would say right now for, me And
i'm an offense, guy BUT i would like to see
them get a pass. Rusher it got off the. Edge you,
KNOW i say pass, rusher BUT i really mean edge,
rusher that type of. Player it just seems like that
would really put a bow on a lot of. Things
and plus it's also a blue chip. Position it's a

(01:45:10):
premium position if you get a boot chip, talent like
it's another building block type of. Position right where you Have,
gonzo you Have Drake may hopefully you Have Will campbell
at left. Tackle and then if you add a premium
pass rusher to that, too now that's another pillar type
of player in position that you can stack the board
on like? That do you to watch some constructive criticism

(01:45:32):
that is really just a constructive? Criticism to, me this
might be like a pu email actually because you're mentioned in,
it but none of these criticisms are about. You. No,
no the second ONE i think is more. Pus i'll
read the first. Criticism he says that on catch twenty, Two, evan.

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
We get a, name not get criticized. Anonymously It's jared In.
La but again he likes. You there's no criticisms of you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
Here So, evan on catch twenty, two when you wanted
to say something But alex is, talking you make a
noise that is unfathomly uncomfortable to. SAY i don't never
even notice. That it sounds like he types a bunch
of e's yeah you and, Ah i'm probably saying yeah
Because i'm agreeing With alex's point or actively listening to his.

(01:46:20):
Point it's.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
Okay this could also be one of those things where
like it's all critical you and then he's watching this
and it's, like oh, SHOOT i got them mixed.

Speaker 1 (01:46:26):
Up it happens all the, time BUT i say it
under my breath and the mic picks it up every every,
time period after every. Period, LITERALLY i can't describe it.
BETTER i. CAN i assume he MEANS i. Can he
SAID i, can't BUT i can describe it better without calling.
IN i don't. KNOW i Think i'm pretty sure it's

(01:46:47):
me saying, yeah WHICH i do some.

Speaker 2 (01:46:49):
Type i've never noticed anything out of place in. THAT
i know you do, that but that's NOT i don't
think you say it. Weird THAT'S i know people get
on me for and, yeah AND i know people get
on me With that's WHERE i thought that was.

Speaker 1 (01:46:59):
Going, see, YEAH i just did it like oh, that,
yeah that's. Normal it's. OKAY i don't. Protest i'll take the.
CRITICISM i. Constructive the other one is more PU I i.
Think but when we like preface our takes With i'm
not saying we're fitting him for a red, jacket Or
i'm not, saying you, know he's gonna be an all

(01:47:20):
pro or, anything Or i'm not comparing him To Tom.
BRADY i get it like those he. Says it's me
in particular again that does this too. Often but, LOOK
i do that a. Lot And i'm not trying to
say this to toot my own. Horn but we're in
the business where like IF i come on this show
AND i say That Drake may is gonna is going
to be the Next Tom, brady that will get clipped

(01:47:40):
and then it will be like held over that. Forever
you've got to qualify stuff in this. Business, Yeah so
like IF i don't qualify, stuff THEN i leave My
LIKE I i don't want to get in that sort of. Thing,
Okay and Again i'm NOT i know that sounded a little.
Arrogant i'm not trying to be, arrogant But i'm just
saying that if you say something about a player and
you're get a little bit, excited and you get a

(01:48:01):
little bit over the top about, it then you're you
will Get. Oh Evan lazar said On catch twenty two
that you Know Drake may is gonna WIN, Mvp, like,
NO i didn't say, that, Right so that's why we do.
That BUT I i. UNDERSTAND i appreciate the constructive. CRITICISMS
i will work on my. YEAHS I i guess that's
WHAT i was. AT i think that's what than.

Speaker 6 (01:48:23):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
NO i told you that none of them are about,
you and they all love, you all, Right, kendall but
it wasn't even juicy for. You minor. Stuff kendall is
In North. Carolina what's, Up?

Speaker 4 (01:48:31):
Kendall, Hey, hey how you?

Speaker 7 (01:48:33):
Doing he Could, HEY i wanted to, ask what's going
on with Jaylen. POLK i know he's been, hurt BUT
i was just seeing him participating like like in most
of the. Drills look like he's kind of competedive be
in the, drills going up for the, balls catch and running.
Around is he just he just can't participate in the
practice right? Now Or and my second, thing how far
do you feel he's behind you think you'd be ready to?

Speaker 4 (01:48:54):
Train?

Speaker 5 (01:48:54):
Account?

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
Yeah so he's uh, Appreciate, Okay, kendell thanks for the.
Call so he said. That rabel actually said this. Yesterday
he did have a shoulder procedure in the off. Season
he indred his shoulder at the very end of last.
Year it was the last second to last game of the.
SEASON i want to say it was actually finished the
year on ir, technically but it. Was it was one like,
that and he had the. Shoulder he's still coming back from.

(01:49:19):
That he is. Running him And digs are on the
same exact. Program they do absolutely everything in, practice, individuals,
walkthroughs and then when the live team stuff, starts they
are off on a side, field so they're all they're
not the only thing they're not doing is the live
live team eleven on. Eleven's they are doing everything else
AND i actually it's routes against air, again same THING

(01:49:43):
i said With, Diggs bulk looks like he's in good.
Shape he's just not cleared for full contact. Yet not
that we're full contact, now but full, PRACTICE i guess
is a better way to put. That so that's what he's.
Doing him And digs have been on the same. Regiment
they're working together off on this on the other field
or whatever the case may. Be and when the team

(01:50:03):
is running eleven on, eleven's they're running through. Routes it's
usually With Ashon, grant the offensive assistant that they're running
routes and it seems like they're trying to mirror what's
going on on the like the other field and running
the same type of routes that they would be if
they were participating in the eleven on. Eleven so that's
what those guys have been. Doing that was the other
thing about practice as we wrap up with the show,

(01:50:25):
here AND i want to mention one Non patriots thing
real quick. Too that was one thing that stood out
to me about to practice is just the method of
the madness of how they structure. Practice AND i want
to Say bill did, this AND i don't necessarily want
to say That jirod didn't do, this because maybe they
did And i'm just not one hundred percent remembering. It

(01:50:46):
but there is a very clear build up To Mike
rabel's practice script where they start practice within these like
every team, individuals but then they go to like routes
against air or defense against, air where the rep the
same stuff they're gonna rep in the eleven on. Elevens
so they'll do it against, air then they'll do it

(01:51:07):
at a jog through pace against the, defense whereas it's
eleven on, eleven but it's at a slower tempo like
an upscale walk through and then they get to the
live team. Drill so by the time they get To
live eleven on eleven's that's the third time that they've
repped that set of plays that they're working on in.
Practice like that's gotta be really helpful for like muscle

(01:51:29):
memory and learning the. Plays so you have this like
clear build up from routes on, air walk through reps
live eleven on eleven and they just like do that
as like a circuit each, day and then each day
is you, know obviously the plays are a little bit,
different but even some of the uh between the twenties
eleven on, elevens when they're doing base, stuff it's clearly

(01:51:49):
the same play as each.

Speaker 2 (01:51:50):
Day, well AND i think some of it too is
we talked earlier about just how practice there's a good
flow to.

Speaker 1 (01:51:56):
Practice everything's, moving they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57):
Stopping you can fix what you need fix during those
slower periods when you get into the up tempo rat
parts moving because you've already kind of made the.

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
Corrections, yeah it's you can see. It and then there's
times where you literally will see a guy against air
run a route and then you go fast forward to
the eleven on eleven and he wins on the route
on eleven on, eleven and it's, like, oh, okay well
they practiced that earlier and now they're doing. It borne
had one the other, day ran that circus route where
you fake like you're gonna break inside and then you

(01:52:27):
break out on the out and and he ran that
route perfectly in the, drill and then he ran it
perfectly in eleven on elevens and caught a touchdown in red.
Zone so that was a that's a very clear kind
of structure to. Practice all, RIGHT a couple more questions
from the, emails and THEN i want TO i want
to talk like two minutes On Roman anthony Because i'm
really excited About Roman, anthony all, right AND i gotta

(01:52:49):
get this. Out but in a, second this is a good,
question in your, opinion who on the roster would you
trade and? Why who on the roster would trading?

Speaker 2 (01:53:00):
WHY i just think if they have players with trade,
value they probably shouldn't be trading those guys because they
need the.

Speaker 1 (01:53:05):
Talent that's a tough. Question do you have an? Answer
it's Between Kendrick born And Kishan. Boody, YEAH i guess
a wide receiver would be my. Answer so we both
did our run throughs of a roster. Projection so far
you're gonna post, YOURS i think right, on, yeah on
The Sports. Up so maybe Next, wednesday well we'll talk

(01:53:27):
more in depth about roster projections and do that sort
of thing on the. Air but the we both sort
of got settled on maybe seven guys in the wide receiver.
ROOM i just feel it just feels one. Heavy and
if you're gonna Keep Afton, chisholm if he's truly gonna
be here and is already stamped the roster and things

(01:53:48):
like not, already but is going to treading in that,
direction it just seems like they have a lot of
bodies there AND i don't, know maybe It's, born maybe It's,
Booty maybe it's just which ever guy has the most
trade value in that. Room no offense or anything to
any of these, players but, yeah Like Javon, BAKER i
just don't know what kind of trade value you're gonna

(01:54:08):
have With Javon. Baker you, know he's probably a guy that's,
Expendable but it's hard to sit here and say you're
gonna get anything, Back like if you could get something.
Back you, know day three pick For booty or born like,
that that's probably worth. It maybe if you feel like
you have a logjam in numbers, there what position would
you look to add and?

Speaker 2 (01:54:27):
Why WHAT i mean starting left guard for free. Safety
i've been on. THIS i think that They Craig. Woodson he,
honestly he's just been so good in. Coverage, yeah like
at the you, know at line of scrimmage man. COVERAGE
i don't know THAT i want them in center. FIELD
i don't know if that's the best use of his skill.

Speaker 1 (01:54:45):
SET i would say left guard as. WELL i pass
strusher is definitely up there. Too Ed, dresher if they
could pull off a Trade hendrickson trade or who's the
other guy's holding? OUT Tj, Watt, yeah OBVIOUSLY i would
do that if it's if it's available and it makes
sense with the picks and all that stuff that would
have to go, Back but you could probably find a
veteran left guard that you could just plug in And

(01:55:08):
i'll hold them to it on This this was one
thing that we talked about on this show all off.
Season we just were looking for them to add that
one year stop gap left. Guard, yeah who was The
Morgan moses of left, guards, right, like just get that
guy so that you can kick that can down the
road and then invest in that later. On but get
through the season with a serviceable. Player did they think

(01:55:31):
it Was Wes. SCHWEITZER i don't, know maybe they. Did
it would seem like early on maybe they thought that
who's that's who it was going to. Be BUT i
never felt great about. THAT i compared him To Michael
jordan last. YEAR i thought that was the level of
Player jordan ended, up, Right so that was one, Thing and,
yes it was one thing they might have missed out
on this, Offseason BUT i don't hold it too much

(01:55:53):
against them because if that's the one thing they they
didn't hit this, offseason then they had a pretty good.
Offseason it's a left. Guard it's not like they ignored left,
tackle so, right SO i give them a break and
that you probably weren't going to be able to hit
everything that you needed in one. Offseason but could you
have paid a little bit more for a free agent

(01:56:15):
guard who was a little bit better Than Wes schweitzer
that you knew was going to play this, year and
not that you could have predicted a? Retirement But Wes
schweitzer was a journeyman. Guard that is not one snap last. Year, yeah,
Right so could you have done a little bit more
at that? Spot would be the one second GUESS i would.
HAVE i know they're probably bigger second, guesses like A
Dk metcalf trade or something like, that but that was

(01:56:37):
a spot that could have been that should have been
more easily filled in my. Opinion all, right so that's the.
SHOW i know everybody hates WHEN i do, this but
last two Nights i've been watching Some Red sox Because
Roman anthony is up for The Red sox AND I
i was excited, Mildly, alex and you're the baseball guy,
here so that's Why i'm talking to you about. THIS

(01:56:57):
i was excited mildly About mayor And hamble a, little,
yeah but just based off of my very uneducated, opinion
Like Roman anthony seems like a lot better. Player he's
a different level of.

Speaker 2 (01:57:08):
Prospect, YEAH i don't know that he's a different level
of player right, now but like he's gonna get. There you,
know he has the potential to be a five tool.
Guy very excited about.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
Him you saw it last, Night like they don't and
some of this is the, approach and we don't need
to get into that whole, thing but, like, yeah they
don't have a ton of guys who hit the way
the hit the ball the way he did last night
to just kind of find that space down the line
in driving a couple of.

Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
Runs like they they're just kind of swinging out of
their shoes a. Lot so you, know his nuanced approached,
plate you, know he's he's ahead on that and he
made the air and right field he probably shouldn't be
playing right. Field, uh you know he's a left. Fielder
but he's.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
A like he's the number. One he wasn't just their
number one. Prospect he was the number one prospect in.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
Baseball there's juice there that that being a number one
prospect in baseball at whatever point in your, career being
that almost equation as much to being a first overall
pick as being a first overall pick in baseball. Does
like that's the prospect rankings are as much draft rankings
as the actual draft. Rankings it takes them more, time,

(01:58:11):
right so you've proven you can do it at one.
Point SO i mean almost think of this like the
first overall picks coming.

Speaker 1 (01:58:17):
In that's the. Way that's why it feels and just you,
know again my very uneducated baseball, opinion just watching the
swing and when he does make, contact even when he makes,
out it's like he makes hard. Contact, Yeah so that
was the big book liner off the. Pitcher that was
like one hundred something miles an hour off the.

Speaker 2 (01:58:33):
Bat they have something called barrel, percentage which is, basically
what percent of the time that you hit the ball
are you hitting the ball with.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
The part of the bath you're supposed to hit it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:40):
With and he was putting up like goofy numbers in
the miners, percentage, exit, velocity all that, stuff which it
could not be the be all end all of. Evaluation,
well but it's a definitive.

Speaker 1 (01:58:50):
Number so that's one of those. Ones hit the way
he swings, too, Though and he's this, big tall dude
six foot three six y. Four he's got you, know
long lake you aren't when he gets the arm, extend
like you can tell that he's just gonna be able
to hit the ball a mile and he hits it.
Hard LIKE i, said even some of these outs that he's,
MAKING i know he's only as a one hit in two,
games but some of the outs that he's made are

(01:59:11):
just hard hit balls or like the fly balls that
he hits Like opo to left, field like he's still getting,
it like pretty close to the, monster you, know like
you were still.

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
And that's, early like usually the first couple of weeks
during an adjustment.

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
Period, yeah a lot Of i'm not a big baseball
prospects guy and like some like we were furious like
two years ago that weren't Calling, Marcelo, yeah because it's
ridiculous the way that they baby these. Guys and then
on top of, that you like we had so many
as kids Like Blake swihart and like all these like
Other Anderson he's Not he's Not Blake, Swihart like it's
this is just For Roman. Anthony you. Have there's different

(01:59:45):
than sufferable to handholding you these.

Speaker 2 (01:59:47):
Guys to be up at twenty. One players don't come
up with twenty one years. Old they don't nine a rare.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
Player, okay everybody tells Me Roman anthony is a rare.
Player what took so? Long so this this was. Different
this was not about his he was ready to.

Speaker 2 (02:00:03):
Play the international guys are different than the high school
like different development paths for an international signing versus a
high School this is What if baseball really wants to
get people excited in the young players and they want
more of, this they need to do a couple of. Things,
one everybody's in the. Draft no more international. Signing everybody's
in the. Draft, two no more drafting out of high.
School everybody's gonna go play, college and that will shorten

(02:00:26):
that minor league, windows so guys will come right. Up and,
then uh was they gotta let teams trade draft.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
Picks the only place doesn't do it like THE. Nba
basically basically, yeah all, right but with a more functional minor.
League all, right so we have to. Go But i'm.
CALLING i Think Roman anthony is going to be a.
STAR i really. DO i just LIKE i think he's.
RELAXED i think he's, cool.

Speaker 2 (02:00:46):
And you know WHAT i like about, Him Ted, Williams,
Yazz Jim, Rice Many. Ramirez The Red sox when they are,
good they have a top player in left. Field they
have not had a star left fielder really since me And,
hey as much AS i Love Jason bay, so, like
this is a chance they got to Get Roman anthony
in the left, field and once they, do like, here we.

Speaker 1 (02:01:07):
Go it's just one of those. Positions it's kind of
a bell.

Speaker 4 (02:01:09):
Cow.

Speaker 1 (02:01:10):
Yeah in when they have a star left, fielder they're generally.
Good they have a chance to have a star left fielder.
Here all, right we'll be back next. Week The patriots
are on summer, break but we are not. Yet we
will have a little bit of a break which we
can talk about in a few. Weeks but this we'll
be back next. Week we'll keep you carried through these
five or six weeks until training camp. Starts maybe we'll

(02:01:31):
do a little live roster projection type thing off Of
alex's roster projection next, week which will be. Good but
keep it, here don't go, anywhere don't go on summer.
Break From catch twenty. Two we'll be here with you
guys all the way till training. Camp so thanks for.
Listening we'll see you next. Time For Evan, lazard The
alex Is alex behind The, Glass Alex, bart thanks for.
Watching we'll see you guys next. Week, hey this Is.

(02:01:55):
Deuce thanks for tuning into the.

Speaker 8 (02:01:56):
Show if you really want to help, us make sure
you like us wherever you get your podcast Like Apple
podcasts Or. Spotify also make sure you follow us on
The New England patriots YouTube channel to see this show
and everything else that we do here at The.

Speaker 1 (02:02:06):
Patriots thanks a.

Speaker 3 (02:02:07):
Lot

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