Patriots Playbook 11/13: Bears Recap, Rams Preview

John Rooke breaks down the Patriots 19-3 victory over the Bears, and turns the page to week 11's matchup with the Los Angeles Rams. Guests include Rams reporter Greg Beacham from apnews.com and Russell Baxter from profootballguru.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Patriots Catch twenty two. We'll join Evan Lazar and Alex
Bart every Thursday as they take a deep dive into
the exit, the No's trends, and latest New England Patriots
roster moves.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
And I'm usually into the numbers. Okay, we do this.
I'm into the tangible numbers. There's there's tame here.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Just give me.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
There's the advantage. In fact, you haven't know how to
work it. I'm surprised an old man over here. I
thought maybe I'd have to show you, like a tutorial
or something.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
How am I old man search for Patriots Catch twenty two?
Anywhere you get your podcast?

Speaker 5 (01:03):
Patriots rasta.

Speaker 6 (01:17):
Dream of.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
La La La. We do have to have a reverse
camera on him. I've just said we have to do this.
We have to have the reverse camera on marine.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So I keep saying, enjoy the songs. Yeah, I know,
we like it that you enjoy the song.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Totally rocks out in there, right, I.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Have the people probably feel bad that they don't get
to see you enjoy the song.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
We should have it. Why don't we have a camera
in then anyway? Because I mean, you're looking for that, Yeah,
you're looking into it.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's true.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
There should be a way to we could do that.
Where would be like a voice activated thing maybe you
know where you know, whenever you speak, the camera flashes
onto you sitting there with your you know, at your
control board with the microphone.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
It's like the camera for the dog, and it tells
you when something moves in the house.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yes, yes, precisely, Yes, that's what we need from that.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
We need a dark legs detected.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
We did pet camera. Yeah, yeah, for marine. I like it.
I like it. That works for me. All right, Welcome
into the playbook, every one. Patriots fans. If you want
to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV,
go to buy a Toyota dot com. It's Toyota's official
website for deals from the official vehicle of the New
England Patriots, Toyota. Let's go places. I'm John, He's Evan. Hey,

(02:45):
we got a win to talk about, which is a
little bit of a I mean, I would have to
say pleasant surprise. But I'm left really with two overwhelming
thoughts about the game on Sunday. First of all, I
expected the Bears to be better. I don't know why. Basically,
you know, given you know how they let end of

(03:06):
the game, but I expected that team to be better
than it was. Second of all nine sacks. Yeah, so
that tells me either the Patriots are really better on
the defensive front than we've been given the credit for,
or the Bears are really bad on the offensive line.
And I'm wondering if it's not some both.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, it's definitely some of both.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
I would say that my rewatch of the game, I
was more impressed with the coverage.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Than I was with the rush.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
And I would also then say the overall game plan
and scheme from Girodmeo and DeMarcus Covington, this was their
best coach game on that side of the ball, and
it's not particularly close. You know, they had a really
great plan, they executed it, and we can get into
like the nitty gritty of some of those you know,
schematic twists that they had. But they played Mansaman coverage

(03:57):
against Chicago. They said, you know, our guys can cover
your guys, especially with you know, the issues that are
going on with that Bears team and against a lot
of backups on the offensive line, which is you know
context we should include the pass rush was able to
have themselves a day so not to take anything away
from the guys up front, and I thought, especially as

(04:18):
the game wore on, they started to wear down the
Bears offensive line and get some quicker pressures. But in general,
I thought that this game started by setting the tone
in the back end that you guys you know and
now and Dj Moore Romadoonze, those guys were going to
have a tough time uncovering against the Patriots.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Second one, what did you what did you notice in particularly?
You thought that was maybe a little bit of a
switch schematically for this team. What was the philosophy other
than I mean than Manda Man. We could tell and
I was actually impressed with that. We've actually seen when
this team is physical with Manda Man coverage, they can stick.
They can stick with a lot of teams. So yeah,

(04:57):
I've actually been impressed with that slow improvement. Sometimes it's
been a little unsteady. They will take two steps forward,
then they'll take one back, then they'll take another two
steps forward, and then they might take another one back,
but they're still just slowly moving the needle that way.
What else did you see out there?

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Well, I would say the biggest thing obviously is schooler
you know, using a schooler as a spy. I thought
was really innovative and really smart. Now I'm going to
write something about this this week. This wasn't the first
time that the Patriots have done that sort of thing.
The origins of it, so it's called the Longhorn package,
which I'm sure you really like, John, you know, there

(05:31):
you go hook them right, But it was actually originally
called the Auburn package because the player who was spying
the quarterback was Jonathan Jones, not Brendan's schoolers. So it
was originally called the Auburn package, and they started doing
it in twenty nineteen when they played Lamar Jackson for
the first time. So it's not something that hasn't been

(05:54):
done here before, but I would say it hasn't been
done here in years since that matchup in nineteen, and
maybe a little bit in twenty when they played Lamar
again the following year in that rainstorm here at Gillette,
But in general, it isn't something they've done recently. And
they got into third down, they got that package on
the field, and they allowed themselves to do some pretty

(06:15):
cool things, so you could obviously whittle it down to upfront,
they were stouter they were more physical, they were more
fundamentally sound, they were better in the run game, which
was a big part of what they did on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
But I also thought the coaches did a great job.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Look at this then, as you know, making gradual steps
in the right direction, or did they just really did
the Bears just kind of play down a level and
the Patriots just have a better day. I'm the point
that I'm trying to drive that here is are we
singing now that we're past a halfway point of the season,
are we seeing now measurable improvement?

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Yeah? Uh, I'm not ready to go there yet. I mean,
let's see what it looks against them.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
That's fair, because I would agree with you in that regard.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, I'm not ready to go there yet.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
But I think the main reason why I'm not is
because I didn't really feel like it was this way
against the Titans just the week before. Where I came
off that game, I could not have told you that
this defensive performance was coming from the Patriots in Chicago
based off of what we had seen against Tennessee. They
were they were decent against the Jets, and you know,

(07:19):
there was a lot of things similar with the Jets
as what the Bears underperforming, you know, quarterback not playing
as well, coordinators and coaches getting fired right like, so
there's a lot of the same stuff going on with
the Jets that that was with the Bears. But let's
call a spade a spade, Like the Bears passing game
is broken, like they're schematically broken. Caleb is not playing

(07:41):
very well and not seeing the field very well, his timing,
his rhythm is off. So there's a lot of things
wrong with Chicago. That being said, I didn't necessarily think
the Patriots had that kind of defense performance in them regardless.
I'll give up three points, one hundred and something yards
of total offense one for fourteen on third down where

(08:05):
the Bears in that game, Like even to the Patriots
going up against the opponent that's wounded or opponent that
is not firing at all cylinders, I still think that
they deserve kudos for just how well they played. I mean,
that's a different level, and I.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Think we realize that. You know, the Patriots have been
short a few sticks throughout the course of the season
with the injuries, with the suspensions, everything else that's been
going on up the middle. But Chicago's performance has taken
a step backward. They started out well this year, now
they've hit a bump in the road, whereas the Patriots

(08:41):
since an game notwithstanding, started out slower but seemed to
be slowly incrementally moving. And I'm wondering at least if
in the direction that they go in this week against
the Rams being an opportunity and now to kind of,
you know, stack week upon week upon week, you know,
try to get some good things back together. I mean,
I can't believe I'm even thinking about a winning streak,
but I didn't think we'd be saying that with this

(09:03):
football team this year. But there's a very real possibility
that that could happen if, of course, you try to
play and can play mistake free football. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
Look, I mean, if you stack the Rams roster up
against the Patriots roster, you're right. So I don't want
to get too ahead of ourselves, but just based off
of what they have done, I think the part that
irks me a little bit now is that that game
in Tennessee that goes to overtime was so winnable for
this team like that this team easily could have won

(09:33):
in Nashville a week ago and then all of a sudden,
you win that. You're talking about the three game winning
streak that you got cooking right now. And so I'm
not trying to talk about playoffs or like get any
crazy way ahead of ourselves. But I know which, I know,
I know, let's calm down, let's let's come back down
to earth a little bit. But at the same time,
it's been better. You know, they were they they are

(09:55):
now in games and they're now able to dominate a
lesser opponent or an opponent that's not all tied together
like the Chago Bears right like that that game, Like,
let's face it, you know they were They've played games
like that against opponents in the last couple of years
and they haven't been able to win those games. They
played a bunch of those games. Last year they lose

(10:17):
to Tommy DeVito and uh, you know whoever was that? It
was a Gardner Minshew in German and Germany for the Colts,
And you know, they they lose games like that.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Last year.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
They lost those games and now it looks like they
maybe against Chicago they won one of those games.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, well they were. Look, we'll give credit what credit
is due. They took advantage of the situation that they had.
The game plan was proper, the effort was proper, the
mistakes were somewhat minimized other than you know, maybe you
know Drake Matho in a bad pass every now and then,
but you are better than at least a handful of
teams in the NFL, even with the roster not being

(10:55):
where you think it needs to be in order to
be a contender in this league. And so I think
there's something to be said for the core here that
undoubtedly is going to end up probably you know, coming
back in some form or fashion at least competing for jobs.
And if you can augment that core properly, this really
puts the onus on player personnel to get the right
people in here to complement what you already have so

(11:18):
you can continue the growth. To me, this team is
improving now because we're actually seeing improved coaching. Yeah, you
know we were critical of coaching or in the if
we were critical on this show. I know you guys
were critical week because twenty two, we were critical last week.
We're critical of it almost every week, and yet we're

(11:38):
critical even though we know that it's a rookie head coach,
a first year's staff, guys who are largely inexperienced at
their positions, in the primary positions, and you know, and
fair or not, they're the ones that you know, shoulder
a lot of the burden here, and so they're the
ones that are paid for fans for the league to

(12:02):
see incremental improvement. We saw some of that this week.
So it's hard for me to bash anybody this week
because the bottom line, and I've always said this, this
is a bottom line league. Let's just win, move on.
It doesn't matter how you win. You just win and
you move on. Style points do not matter. We keep
trying to put style points in the NFL. We keep
trying to say, well, yeah, but they don't have this,

(12:23):
or they don't have that, or the quarterback's not any good,
or they don't have a third down pass rusher, or
they don't have situation. I mean, I'm like, it doesn't matter.
And this is where I kind of sided with guys
like you know, Bill Belichick and some of the older
coaches in the league that had come through. And I
still think that, you know, there are a couple of
coaches around that that adhere to a lot of this
that analytics aside, just win the game, Yeah, move on

(12:48):
and win the game. And I think that's exactly what
the Patriots did this week. And so if you're looking
for some kind of glimpse of hope of promise, they
went old school on you this last week. They did
exactly what they had to do. They game planned to
beat that opponent. I was impressed with the running game.
It looked like the offensive line got out of their

(13:09):
own way, which they haven't been able to do. And
again it's it's still a work in progress. Okay, there's
still a lot of work to be done here, but
at least, you know, Remandre Antonio Gibson and let's throw
Jamichael Hasty in there. You know, some good days and
bad days, but let's face it, he is what he is.
I was just I was impressed, and I think it

(13:29):
was because of you know, Drake made some mistakes that
I know he said already he'd like to have back,
but I'm willing to live with a few of those
because we all know that he's a playmaker, that he's
an instigator, that he's a bleep starter, whatever you want
to call it. But that's what he's doing for this team,
and they need that element. And with that element, it

(13:52):
allows everybody to almost kind of like pin their ears
back and go after it a little bit more. And
that's the kind of an attitude that they need. I
loved his explanation this week of you know, why he
went for that slide head first, and I just I'm like,
I'm just like, wow, Okay, I like the attitude. Yeah,
And so I can live with one or two bad

(14:12):
throws a game. Obviously, these are things he'll have to
clean up if he's gonna really have any success for
the long haul. But to me, I'm sensing almost sense
like week six or seven and attitude Adjustment has.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
A real belief in the quarterback. And I've believed in them,
you know, I.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Know you have. You've been a long time, been straightforward
with that and and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
This is sort of what I had seen. I'm not
like trying to take a victory lap, but this is
what I was seeing with him and just being around
teams and being in the locker room and understanding how
these things work. You know, that is the most important
position on the team, but it's not all that different
than other team sports. You know, when you have a

(14:55):
you know, just because it got across sports every once
in a while, when you have a Jason Tatum and
you're starting five, and when you have a David Pasternak
on your you know, power first, power play, and you
have these superstar players, it makes it a lot easier
for the rest of the roster to just kind of
start pulling on the rope a little bit stronger because

(15:16):
you have you have a leader, you have a guy
that can carry you to the promised land that you
have confidence in.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
And and and Okay, now I'm going to go back
to what I was harping on earlier in the year.
You start this guy at the beginning of the year
because he's clearly the better of the more talent of
the quarterbacks. Yeah, this team is likely five and five
right now. I truly believe that. And we could legitimately
be talking about a playoff contempt.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Look, it's hard to say. You know, revision is history.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Not hard for me to say it is.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Revision is history.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
But it's not hard for me to say.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
Well, it's hard to say because you know, you just
don't know if he starts Week one against I have
no doubt if he starts week one that he would
be better off now than he would have been back.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Then, that much further ahead of the curve.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
You would think.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
But I don't know for a fact that they win
in Cincinnati if he turns the ball over three times
and you know, we get the exact same Drake May
start that they got against Houston in his very first
start in the league. Yeah, and he turns it over
three times and gives the Bengals three extra possessions. I
don't know if that rest of that game goes the
exact same way, but I hear. I mean, look, I've

(16:24):
been wanting them to start since week one, since April, so,
like you're peaching to the choir there, I've just kind
of moved on from it because it is what it is.
But I just think the biggest thing with with Drake
May and we can talk about his play specifically, but
you know, we had him micd up this week and
that's out now. You can watch that on all of
our platforms and you just see the leadership. You see
that ability to rally people in all Yeah, the positivity

(16:48):
and you know, that sort of thing out of this
twenty two year old kid and the poiss. You know,
I feel like is off the charts with him as well.
So all those things are are great things for the team.
And I say coaching like, this is why I sound
like a broken record because I go on, you know,
three different shows in a week and say the exact

(17:09):
same thing after they lose to the Titans. But I
hate sounding like a broken record. But at the same time,
when the coaching gets out of its way, you know,
the old belichickism is that coaches lose games, players win games.
And I felt like in Tennessee, the coaches lost them
a game. You know, they shuck up the offensive line,
they blew the situation before halftime, they didn't know which

(17:30):
way the win was blowing, and overtime, like these were
things that actively lost the Patriots the game. This week
in Chicago, you know, they start the same offensive line
that they ended the game with in Tennessee. Finally, some
continuity and some you know, foresight to do that they
scored before the end of the half. They executed that
situation pretty much flawlessly before the end of the half

(17:52):
to get that field goal to go up by ten points.
And they played the situation in the game correctly. And
that's if you if you get that from coaching every
single week. I understand they're not loaded talent wise, but
this is the NFL. They have players that can go
out there and make plays on offense. They have players
that can go out there and make plays on defense.

(18:14):
This is not you know, Bimigie State versus Alabama, right like,
this is not like we're not talking about like this.
I don't know, I just made that one up Appalachian State.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
There you go. This is not like, you know, some
a huge, huge.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
Talent gap that like you walk off the bus and
you just have no chance on the game. Every NFL
team has a chance on Sunday. Sure you can win
any game. Yeah, And so when you look at that,
when the coaching is an actively an anchor to what
they're trying to do, I'm not saying that they're gonna
rattle off six in a row. I'm just saying they're
gonna be competitive, they're gonna beat in games. They're gonna

(18:54):
have chances to win football games, and they have, and
if the players then go out and put them over
the top, then yeah, they could maybe start to stack
some wins together. But the first step was not beating
yourself and on Sunday. They were able to go out
there and not beat themselves. That they can do that consistently.
We're gonna see some competitive football.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
I'm bringing you guys up to day and what we're
gonna do here with the show coming up in i'd
say about ten twelve minutes, we're going to I'm getting
I'm getting, I'm getting a missive from control. Oh. I
was gonna say Phil Perry and he's not going to
be here now because he show has been moved. Okay,
so we'll probably hear from Drake May coming up a
little bit. Phil Perry was going to join us, but

(19:35):
his schedule change. I got wear you just in time. Yeah,
I know, I'm glad you did that. But Greg Beacham,
who covers the rams for the Associated Press, is going
to join us, so we'll get into some of the
rams a little bit, and of course Russell Backshew will
be along as well. In our number two. I want
to make sure that you know that the phone lines
are always open eight five five pats five hundred eight
five five p ats five hundred. You can hit us

(19:56):
up on podcasts at Patriots dot com. You can find
my handle on x and submit something that way as well.
I'm at JR Broadcaster and I hope that you'll you'll
check in with us on this one, but we'll we'll
entertain your questions as well. Coming up. I want to
know what you think of I saw the report that
was out there about I think it was put out

(20:18):
originally by Bert Breer, who said that the Patriots were
looking for the outside advice on how to develop Drake
may And I think it's because if everything's true true,
and I'm not surprised by this if it is true,
but they wanted to make sure that they don't stub
their tool again, kind of like they did with Mac
Jones in that situation over the last few years. What

(20:40):
do you make of that, if anything at all.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah, I would love to know the timeline of when
that happened, because asking, you know, guys like I'm just
throwing this out there.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I'm not saying that this is who they asked.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
But let's say, uh, girod Mayo or mister Craft or
AVP or any of them put in a call to
Brian Dable and said to Brian Dabele, how did you
go about developing Josh Allen? Because we think that we
either drafted or are going to draft. Yeah, a Josh
Allen type. So like, how did you go about doing that?

(21:15):
You know, I don't think that that is all that
crazy and I don't necessarily find that nefarious. Like I
think a lot of people are trying to make this
out to be and you know, I think that that
stuff goes on. You pick each other's brains. You know,
it's a it's a small world of coaching in the NFL.
Not a lot of guys are in that position or
where are those hats. There's thirty two head coaches, there's

(21:37):
thirty two coordinators. Like, it's not like there's you know,
it's not optim here where there's five thousand people that
work at the company here, right, Yeah, So I think
you go around and you talk to people, and you
talk to guys that have been through similar things. And
I think the players do it with other players. I
didn't coaches do it with other coaches. I don't find

(21:57):
this to be I don't think. I don't want to
speak for Burt, but like, I don't find it to
be as smoking gunny as it's like or nefarious as
it's being.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I didn't you know.
When I looked at it, I said, well, that actually
kind of makes sense to me. And I didn't find
that anything terribly revealing on that because look, if I'm
mister Kraft, I damn sure want to make sure that
I don't make the same mistakes again. So what do
we do as an organization to keep from falling into
those traps and in those those potholes to speak? Because
I think we understand where some of that, maybe even

(22:28):
a lot of that occurred to the previous regime. But
now that we have, you know, a guy that we
think can lead us back to where you know, this
franchise wants to go, which is back to the postseason
and then have success in that postseason. They might have
a guy here who's capable of that, provided you surrounding
with the right pieces. So how do we nurture him?
What what do we need to do in an effort

(22:49):
to not get in the way of his development? And
how can we help augment that development? To me, one
of the things would be would be to have some
consistency in his learning curve, which mac Jones did not have.
And with everyone crying for Alex van Pelt, Pelt so
to speak. I'm not sure so sure that I just

(23:11):
I'm not sure that's the direction you want to go
here right now at this stage of his development.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
So the way I look at it, and I know
I've come off as a as an AVP defender a
little bit, but I look at it as almost two
separate jobs. So Alex Van Pelt, to me's job right
now isquarter back development, Like his job is to develop
Drake May. It's his footwork, it's his mechanics, it's his

(23:36):
reads and his you know, the upstairs stuff, the between
the years stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
It's developing a quarterback.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
I don't necessarily think that's that's the same as designing
an offense or calling plays during the game. So there
might come a time and place where, let's say two
three years down the line now, when Drake May is
about as finished up a product as he possibly can be,

(24:04):
that the Patriots needs somebody that's a little bit more
innovative and a little bit more creative and a little
bit better at calling plays during games to kind of
get them to that next step. But I don't necessarily
know if that guy is the guy that develops the quarterback.
If you understand what I'm saying, Like, I feel like
right now I'm subject to change. If their offense goes

(24:26):
into the tank for the last eight games of the season,
then I'm going toge my mind on this. But for
right now, I think Alex Van Pelt has done his
job in terms of developing Drake May And that's item
number one. Like, I understand that people have gripes with
the way he calls plays during games and stuff like that,
but frankly, it's that is not seeing the forest for

(24:47):
the trees, right like that is right now we're getting
a little bit ahead of ourselves of where this team is.
And at this point in time, I would take the
quarterback developer over the fancy offensive coordinator. Now, if you
could find an offensive coordinator that's good at both, then
you've hit the jackpot. But most likely that guy's got
the head job. He doesn't have the officers coordinator.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
That person exists, because if he does, he's probably a
head coach somewhere.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean most of the time.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Now, you know, I think the one guy everybody always
points to is Ben Johnson in Detroit. But like Ben
Johnson in Detroit has Jared Goff, who's a veteran quarterback
in this league. I don't know what Ben Johnson does
with rookie quarterbacks. I know what he's done with the
guy that's been there and done it before. I mean,
we can say what you want about Jared Goff, but
he made a Super Bowl with another team and another coach.

(25:33):
So how Ben Johnson's a great, great coordinator. I'm not
trying to say he's not. But right now, quarterback development.
Trump's let's call some cool stuff on Sundays, right, And
I'm all for the cool stuff?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
You know me?

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Well, can we, though, maybe get a little more help
to where we could eventually call more cool stuff because
it's one thing to call the cool stuff and not
be successful. Yeah, I'd like to see the cool stuff
be successful. Yeah. I don't think they have the personnel
to do that all.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
The time, right, So I would say that if I
were in a position of power, which I am totally not,
the one thing that I would maybe do, whether it's
spending time with another coordinator or another offensive mind, or
it's hiring somebody actually to be on staff, is in
the off season, I would like to see them try

(26:27):
to improve their play design and try to be little
bit more creative on the offensive side of the ball.
So if that means bringing in somebody who is sort
of one of these wizards that is more of an
expert in that sort of thing. Like, I think Van
Peltz a really good fundamentals coach. Like I think he's
getting Drake May's footwork is better. I think his mechanics

(26:47):
are better. I think his processing and his timing and
his speed in the in the between the ears stuff
is better than it was at North Carolina. I think
you're seeing small increments of improvement, but the offensive line
and the fundamentals and the techniques and like all that
kind of stuff is starting to slowly improve with lesser talent.
So I actually really believe that Van Pelt's a decent

(27:09):
football coach. I just don't know if he's Kyle Shanahan
right where like he's gonna get into games and he's
gonna really out fox the opposing defensive coordinator.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Is he not that guy? Probably?

Speaker 4 (27:21):
Probably not, Probably not to be frank, But when we
get to that point where that's what this team needs,
then we can have that conversation comparison. I keep on
using is Lamar Jackson because Lamar Jackson started off with
Greg Roman as his offensive coordinator, who worked with Kaepernick
in San Francisco and ran a wing te you know,

(27:43):
triple option style offense in college. So he was really,
you know, like buttoned up in terms of how to
use that kind of quarterback. So he had Roman for
a couple of years when MVP of the league with
Roman by the way, and then eventually they got to
the point where Lamar had evolved past just being an

(28:04):
option quarterback, and he had evolved past the Greg Roman offense.
So the Ravens hired Todd Monkin as their offensive coordinator
and fired Greg Roman, and Todd Monkin came in and
put more on Lamar's plate, ran more pro style concepts,
and now all of a sudden, you see this version
of the Ravens. So the Todd Monkin might not be

(28:25):
what Drake may needs today. He might need Todd Monkin
in three years, but today he might need Alex Van Pelt,
and he might need a guy that has played the
position before in the league, who knows quarterbacks, who knows
how to coach quarterbacks. And we'll get to the point
where we're talking about scheme in a.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Little bit isn't that originally why Van Pelt was brought here,
thinking that he could help bring along, you know, whatever
rookie quarterback that they ended up you know, drafting, whether
it was you know, Drake May, Jayden Daniels, whoever ended
up being at that pick. They want him to basically,
you know, be the quarterback whisperer.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
Yeah, and I think that was the original premise. We
kind of lost sight of that once, you know, we
knew it was Drake May, and it's kind of like,
all right, now, let's see what, you know, Let's gore points,
let's score touchdown, let's win games. But the one thing
that I keep kind of harkening back to myself is
is that this staff, even when it came in new
they kept saying this is going to be a developmental process.

(29:26):
There's going to be a slow, probably painfully laborious process. Yeah.
They haven't lied to us in that regard. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Yeah, And you know, I look at Jayden Daniels I
think as a cool kind of foil to the Drake
May thing, because we talked about this all draft season
and it's rung true. You know, Jayden Daniels spent six
years in college football, He made over fifty career starts
in college football. He was by far and away the
most pro ready quarterback out of this group, and he,

(29:56):
you know, was just further along in his development. So
the Commanders they hired Cliff Kingsbury, who is one of
these schemers, who is one of these creative offensive minds,
because they didn't necessarily need to hire a guy that
was going to work on footwork with jayde and Daniel.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, have you wondered what would happened if the roles
were reversed and Kingsbury was here taking care of May.
If in that position, would we still be at the
same stage we are now?

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (30:22):
I do wonder, because you know, look, I think Kingsbury
the one thing that I have been you know, the
couple things I've been critical with AVP and of the
actual design of the plays and the play calls themselves
are one. I don't necessarily feel like he's catered the
offense to Drake May. I feel like he's asked Drake
made a fit into his offense. And before everybody's you know,

(30:44):
takes that that's not just an AVP thing. I would
say Josh McDaniels did the exact same thing with Mac Jones, like,
this is our system, this is what we run, this
is what we're gonna ask you to do, and you
have to go out there and do it. And if
you can't do it, we'll get another guy to do it, right,
Like that's a lot of coordinators think that way. But
Kingsbury he got his hands on Jaden Daniels when Washington

(31:07):
drafted him, and he went to LSU and basically took
the LSU playbook and they took the things they liked,
and they took they throughout the things they didn't like.
But a lot of the things that they run in
Washington are what Jaden Daniels was running at LSU. You know,
there's a lot of read options and quarterback run and
all that kind of stuff that was all going on

(31:29):
at LSU. They're now doing yeah in Washington, and I
don't necessarily see the Patriots doing that for Drake. So
that's a big thing. And I would also just say that,
you know, in general, I think some of the play
calling lacks sequencing, Like it lacks cohesion where you know, okay,
we're running this play, We're running this play, and now

(31:51):
here's the counter, Like here's the punch off of that.
I don't necessarily see that going on and often enough.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
All Right, I want to get back to that in
just a moment, But I want to pause here for
just a moment and bring in Greg Beacham, who covers
the Rams, amongst other things, for the Associated Press in
Los Angeles. Greg, it's John Rook and Evan Lazar here
in Foxborough. Thanks for taking a little time today.

Speaker 7 (32:12):
Hey John, Hey Heaven, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Sure, so I get the obvious question I have is
is what the hell happened this last weekend? I mean,
and I'm sure that's a question that you know, the
Rams are asking themselves. I'm sure that that's a question
that Rams fans are asking themselves, especially after having a
couple of pretty good offensive performances leading into that and
getting this team back into you know, some kind of contention. Man,

(32:35):
that was a semi stinker against the Dolphins, I thought, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (32:39):
Especially offensively for a team to admit a lot of
progress on offense for the last couple of weeks. I mean,
a lot of it came down to red zone execution,
as you saw. I mean, they repeatedly, you know, failed
to convert opportunities. Even when there were open receivers, Matthew
Stafford didn't find them. And all that is just play
to play stuff. But overall, the overarching theme is that
this team is struggling to get its run game going

(33:01):
for some reason, even though they've got Karen Williams back there,
who is an elite running back. In Blake Krum the
rookie who looks like a really good backup. I think
you have to credit that partly to the offensive line,
which has been constantly influx this year injuries every week,
but also Charmavay's play calling. He's calling a lot of passes.
He's in the top quarter of the league for passes called,

(33:21):
or that's falling behind when they were struggling earlier this year,
But it doesn't explain everything. They've been trying to move
the ball through the air, particularly since Cooper Cup and
Pukinikua came back, but it did not work against the Dolphins.
They struggled to get the ball in the end zone,
they struggled on third down, right, they struggled everywhere where
they'd been doing pretty well the previous two weeks.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
I would ask you why you think maybe they've struggled.
I mean, I saw that they were pretty good in
terms of possessing the ball, but when it got to
the red zone, they just they came up with they
fired blanks. Is it because of anything that either Nikoua
or Cup were doing, or is it because they don't
lack they lack a running game? Was it the play calling?
I mean, have you been able to kind of look

(34:01):
at it and say, well, maybe was this or that.

Speaker 7 (34:04):
It's occurred a lot during Sean mcvay's eight years. He's
an excellent coach, he's one of the best.

Speaker 6 (34:07):
In the league.

Speaker 7 (34:08):
But in terms of his you know, short field play calling, execution,
all those kinds of things that we talk about, he's
lacked at times. And he's to be the first to
admit it. He's like, you know, I didn't put my
guys in the position to succeeed.

Speaker 6 (34:20):
He'll put you know, Stafford back there with a couple.

Speaker 7 (34:22):
Of options if one of them's not open. Matthew Stafford
is not the most elusive quarterback in the world. He
needs to make a quick decision. They'll take a chance.
He's also a gambler. He made a couple of mistakes
on Monday Night overall.

Speaker 6 (34:33):
I just say it's an overall not having a sense
of being able to establish the running game and go
from there. That's been the repeated problem this year is
just not getting the ball moving on the ground enough
to where you can set up the pass properly. And
a lot of teams do it the opposite way, obviously,
but the Rams when they've been at their best when
they had Todd Gurley, when they had no Kiren going
nuts last year, where a team that would use the run,

(34:55):
set up the pass and have a lot of success
that way, they have not been able to do that.
Even when they've played well this year, it hasn't been
really impressive. They're rushing offenses like twenty six in the league,
I believe before Monday night. So it's just not getting
it going, and to me, that's the biggest problem. And
I think again you have to come back to the
offensive line on that they've had injuries, that just hasn't
worked out.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Seemed like everybody is having major offensive line issues. The
Patriots offensive line is well documented issues that they've had.
We saw that this last week from the Bears the
Patriots played, and now we're seeing it from the Rams.
Have you been able to put your finger on why
this is. Are there just not enough good players out there?
Or is it because of the physicality of the game.

(35:34):
I'm just kind of curious what you're your point of
view might be on why we're seeing so many offensive
line issues.

Speaker 7 (35:39):
Well, that might be it. I mean I always talk
about this with hockey, that there's so many, so many
players in the NHL right now who would be in
the AHL a few years ago because they've expanded so much.
Maybe it's it's a fact where there's just not that many,
not that many difference makers at this level. But but
the Rams offensive line issues started early. They lost, they
lost three guys in the first two games, and after

(36:01):
that they're just they're just patching holes all over the place.
They're playing a rookie at center who did his best.
You know, they're playing they're they're switching tackles. They had
they had their left tackles suspended for two games, so
they haven't had any continuity to work on something. And
that was something that they went into the offseason really
wanting to address. They signed Jonah Jackson, paid a top
dollar for a guard who turned out to be a center.
They drafted Steve Avola in the second round last year.

(36:24):
They've paid Kevin Dottson to stay, paid him big money
after after very smartly acquiring him in a trade. They
thought that the interior of their offensive line would be
their strength. I don't know that you can blame injuries
on any specific, you know thing. I don't know that
that works. They did rely on Joe Noteboom as their
swing tagle, who's been injury prone his entire career, and
he got hurt again, only came back last week and
didn't do so good because Rob Havnstein was out at

(36:45):
the right tackle. So I don't know that you can
tag it on one particular thing. Some of that's the
role of the dice as that every team knows. You know,
you come into a season with a plan and then
you get punch in the mouth.

Speaker 6 (36:55):
But I think, I think if they can just get
a couple of few weeks together to build some continuity,
build some stability, I think the running game will come
because Karen Williams looks just as good as before, except
his yards per carry his way down, and that's hurting
everything the Rams.

Speaker 7 (37:07):
Are trying to do.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Philosophically speaking, and then I kind of tossed this out
to both of you. Here, is this a problem on
the offensive line that could be solved with expanded rosters?
Because we're getting ready to even think about the eighteen
game regular season in the next few years, certainly by
the time the next contract, you know, with the NFLPA
rolls around, I'm wondering if this is a solvable problem
so that teams can improve them with some added depth. Greg,

(37:32):
I'll let you take it first.

Speaker 7 (37:33):
That's a good question. I'd be curious. I do know
that the Rams you know, have they have depth in
the building. They have a practice squad full of guys
who they you know, they drafted or they think can
step up. Some of them have tried and have failed. Though,
I don't know whether the only way you get better
is to play. Then if you can't play, then how
do you get better. I don't know how that works.
I would love to see.

Speaker 6 (37:53):
I'm all in.

Speaker 7 (37:53):
Favor of expanded rosters.

Speaker 6 (37:54):
I think anything you can do to help people get
better at football and be part of the team and
all that kind of stuff would work. But in terms
of like fixing you know, injuries and depth, that's gonna
be really tough, just because the level is so high
in the NFL. The defensive lineman you're going against are
so good. You know, you're not gonna lose your backup tack,
lose your tackle and then have him go up against
the backup defensive end.

Speaker 7 (38:14):
That's not the artworks. You guys just gonna get murdered
by an elite guy on the other side.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, I just I think a bigger problem to
me is the lack of padded practices and the lack
of you know, contact, especially in the summertime, because look,
that's offensive line play is just fundamentals and you know,
physicality and all that kind of stuff. And if you
don't have those reps under your belt, especially and we're
talking about depth guys that get even less reps than

(38:40):
the guys that are starting, and a lot of places,
it's just kind of compounds itself that these guys just
don't have a ton of experience. And I've always wondered
if like there was a way to you know, now
we have all these like spring leagues and stuff like that,
like if you start sending some of those guys like
that are going to be eighth, nine, tenth offensive lineman
on NFL rosters practice squad guys like, give those guys

(39:03):
opportunities to get more live reps other places. You know,
maybe that would help him out as well. But you know,
that's the biggest thing to me, because you do look
at the NFL and you can see, especially teams that
are at least able to stay somewhat healthy on the
offensive line. By the end of the year, it's a
lot better than it was at the beginning of the year.

(39:24):
And that's not a coincidence.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
You know.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
They build to that sort of thing. I think we're
even seeing that here a little bit, is that the
Patriots have been able to build at least in some spots.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah. I think it goes back to the old adage.
And I've said this all along, he who has the
most toys wins. And if you're if you're if you're
able to keep that some semblance of depth for the
long haul here, you're going to be one of those
teams that is truly a contender. That's what Kansas City
has done so marvelously well over.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
The last few years and blocked field goals.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah field is that unbelievable, right, I know? And really
can't Yeah, really can't they just lose and get it
over with, you know, I mean, honestly, it's it's like,
but they've got, you know, some of that sunshine. Uh yeah,
sprang up their skirt, so to speak, Uh, like the
Patriots had a few years ago.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Absolutely, very similar.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Absolutely, Greg.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
I had a couple of questions for you, just since
we're on the topic of offensive line. Do you expect
it to be the same group as it was last week,
because I know they had got a bunch of guys
back and it didn't exactly go the way that they
were hoping it would.

Speaker 7 (40:28):
We have not talked to Sean yet today. He talked
in about an hour. But the expectation with Rob Hanstein,
their starting right tackle, was that he would have a
chance to come back this week. Joe Noteboom played for
him last week. Didn't play that well overall. I mean,
he's doing his best. He was coming back from his
injuries first time since week one, so he was just
being thrown into the fire. They did get they did
get their center back, and they got their they got

(40:49):
their left guard back. There was one bad snap that
showed a little bit of rustiness from those two guys
who'd been injured, but they'll both feedback. They're both okay.
So they're going to be close to one hundred percent
this week. They're either going to have their five starters
from from week one, which will be the first time
they've had their five starters from week one, or they're
going to have four starters and they're they're dependable, very
well paid backup tackle at right at right tackle who's

(41:10):
going to be expected to produce. So they're close to
one hundred percent as they can be right now, and
you know, at week whatever week we're at, and so
we'll see if that pays dividends on the field.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Yeah, And then just to flip over to the other
side of the ball to talk about some more positive
things for the Rams right now. Obviously that defense is
playing lights out over the last month or so.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Loved your adverse, Yeah, does what do you.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
See from the group overall? And Chris Sula and his
scheme seems pretty pretty good right now too.

Speaker 7 (41:39):
They've made a lot of improvements that the story from
September to October was night and day. And I give
credit to Chris Shula because there are a lot of
raised eros at that higher because he you know, he
was Shawn's college teammate, college roommate, you know, old friend,
had not really been a candidate for a lot of
defensive coordinator jobs. And Shawn is a.

Speaker 6 (41:55):
Guy who's gone outside of his organization, thought outside the
box to find defensive coordinators. He you know, his three
coordinators were West Phillips, who's never worked with before, I
mean yeah, and then Uh and then Brandon Staley, who
he you know, knew, didn't know Raheem Morris, who was
a former colleague but hadn't worked with him in the Rams.
To get stay in, to stay in the organization and
to go with that was a bit of a surprise.

(42:16):
But they're making a lot of strides and a lot
of it's about that defensive front. You guys are gonna
love getting the first first hand look at Jared Verse.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (42:23):
Just kind of a monster on the edge, just relentless motor,
just has great instincts. Once once he learns how to
put down you know, every tackle that he has an
opportunity to make. Like a veteran, he's going to be
one of the best, you know, one of the best
ed rushers in the NFL. He might already be. I'm
not sure, but that's not the only guy. That've got
Kobe Turner at nose tackle, who's a very active, very
aggressive nose tackle, has done a great job of filling

(42:44):
a lot of the of the gap that Aaron Donald's left.
That've got Byron Young on the other side, who is
a nice book nd pass rusher for Jared Burst. He
doesn't pop off the screen quite as much as Burst does,
but he's very effective and very relentless as well. And
then they've just got They've got a bunch of guys
you know, on the interior who filled good roles as well.
So and Braden Fist, their other rookie, is also showing

(43:05):
real promise on the interior defensive line. So a lot
of the success is built on this young defensive line
really coming into its own after just a half a
season together. It really bodes well for the future of
the Rams. They do have problems at the other two
levels of the defense, but right now that their team,
their team is getting a lot of pressure and stopping
a lot of stuff at the line of scrimmage.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
I was sort of sorry, just you know, just as
a team right now in the Patriots that are obviously rebuilding,
you know, there was there's clearly a philosophical shift with
less Need and Sehn McVay about how they were going
to approach team building from the you know FM picks
era to now right, So like what sort of changed,
Like why did they go this direction? And now we're

(43:45):
talking about you know, Verse and Fisk and all these
first and second round picks that are making impacts because
they have picks.

Speaker 7 (43:52):
Again, Lester p Sneed likes to zig when the world's aggs,
and that's what he's done twice. I mean, he realized
that people were overvaluing their high picks. He took advantage
of that by landing a bunch of difference making veterans
to win a Super Bowl. And then when the last
of the league cut up to him and started realizing, hey, wait,
these are worth something and we can get a guy
who's really good right now, he was like, we need
to rebuild our base. He you know, the fmpis thing.

(44:15):
They always said it was sustainable long term. They didn't
feel like they were loading up and putting all their
cards on the table in twenty twenty one. Having said that,
when they had twenty twenty two that went so poorly,
they decided, Okay, wait, we need to restock this base,
and so they've approached that deliberately intentionally. They've they've deliberately
stayed away from long term, major commitments to guys who
will not be here in three years, and they've they've

(44:36):
restocked everything they needed. And they've started on the defensive line,
because that was the most obvious place to start, particularly
after Aaron Donald retired, but even before that they needed
stuff there. So they've done that, they're doing it again,
and now when you look around the league, it's funny.
At the trade deadline, you stop people starting to really
value those high picks again and maybe not making a
move that would make them more of a Super Bowl
contender this year, which makes us think maybe Less is

(44:58):
going to be like, hmm, well, if I, you know,
if I have a competitive team here and I have
a first round pick that I can trade for a
difference making cornerback or a difference making receiver, maybe I'm
Gonnazig when they're going to zag again. I don't know.
We'll see, but it's very interesting to see the way
the league has been following Less around. It's been funny.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
It's fascinating, it's also, Yeah, and the other obvious thing here,
just to kind of cut to the chase, is that
I've noticed in some of the headlines about the Rams
the last few weeks, they've gone from streaking to struggling.
How does that happen so quickly? And at four and five, five,
four and five? Is this team that far away from
being that contender that somebody thought they would be?

Speaker 7 (45:37):
We thought they were. They had turned the corner until
until Monday night. Actually, they had a one and four
start with injuries. They had their top two receivers out,
their top tight end has already been out for the season.

Speaker 6 (45:46):
You know, they had two key offensive linemen out. We thought,
you know, well, this is this is turning into twenty
twenty two again. They're just they're just too injured to compete.

Speaker 7 (45:53):
They turned it around. They won three games in a row.
They looked really good in all three of those games,
defensively particularly, but also offensively. After Cup and Nickula came back,
and then you know, on Monday night against Miami, they
could not execute for the multiple reasons we already talked about. Yea,
they couldn't get the ball on the end zone. If
Matthew Stafford gets Karen Williams open in the end zone,
it might be a different dicussion. You know, that changes
the entire dynamic of the game. That was you know,

(46:13):
every NFL played, every NFL game comes down to a
handful of plays like that. But having said that, you know,
they lost. They looked, they looked really poor on offense.
They couldn't they couldn't do anything when it really mattered,
even though they outgained the Dolphins fandily. So I think
this game against against New England, they got New England,
Philadelphia and New Orleans coming up back to back, you know,
that's going to show you a lot about where they're at,
and that's going to really determine whether they're actually a

(46:35):
contender for a playoff spot. They've they've come down to
the point in the season where it's going to really
matter what they do in New England on Sunday. This
is a really important game for them.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Really good stuff, Greg, thanks for taking a little time
to visit with us today. We do appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (46:47):
Oh, thank you so much. John and Nevian appreciate it.
Have on the game.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Thanks you got it. Greg Beacham covers the Rams for
the Associated Press in Los Angeles joining us here in
the playbook. I you know, to me going into the season,
the Rams one of those teams that are like, well, yeah,
they'll probably be back. You're thinking, you know, Sean McVay
is still one of the you know, the up and
coming coaches of all you know, and the Patriots of
course match witch with him a few years ago in
the Super Bowl when he was just starting out, and

(47:11):
certainly you would think that with a little seasoning and
having to gone through some adversity, here's a team in
an organization that's got to be on the uptick, which
is why when they started out struggling this year, I'm like, Wow,
what's going on? Is the blame all to go with McVeigh.
Admittedly probably some of that turning it around, okay, on
the back on the right track, and then they took

(47:31):
a huge step back, and I have you know, look,
I think tour Toungo Viiloa is a better quarterback than
we've given him credit for over a long period of time,
especially since he's been in the NFL. Uh you know win, Yeah,
that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
In the regular season, that's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
But I can't believe he would be that much of
a difference maker for the Dolphins and and and maybe
he is, and maybe we need to give him credit
for that. But what I saw, the little I saw
of the game this past week, I'm like, I was
just I was more amazed at the rams inability to convert.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Yeah, they had a lot of injuries the Rams, did
you know, pukin Akua, Cooper Cup injuries on the offensive
line that Greg was talking about, and the whole thing
with them has been and that they are just hoping
they get everybody back at the right time and then
they can go on a run in the second half
of the season and make the playoffs and get into
the playoffs and and be that you know, team that

(48:29):
nobody wants to play as a six seed or seventh
seed or something like that. But the issue is is
when that happens, like you have no margin for error, right,
Like you can't lose games that you should win. And
I don't know if Miami was necessarily a game you
should win because the Dolphins have a lot of talent
and well, definitely talk about Miami next week, so he can,
we can talk about them then. But in terms of

(48:50):
the Rams now, they're at a point where, like Greg
was saying, they have to win pretty much every game,
like they.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Don't have any margin for error anymore.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
Now, the one thing I would say, you know that
we didn't really touch on too much just now with Greg,
that Nikua and Cup. To me, I don't necessarily see
Cooper Cup as being as dynamic of a receiver as
he maybe was a couple of years ago on film.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
I do think that's why he was a rumor for
trade possibility before the deadline.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
It's possible. I and this is just my opinion.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
I just watched film of the Rams now and I
don't necessarily see the same guy that won Super Bowl
MVP a couple of years ago. You know, Like I
don't think that he is quite as electric of a
route runner as he once was. And I think these
injuries that he's had, and he has had quite a
few nagging injuries, some serious ones too, if I'm not mistaken,

(49:46):
those seem to be catching up to him maybe a
little bit this at this stage of his career. So now,
you know, the Dolphins, they played a lot of zone,
but like when they were playing man to man, and
I always watched the man to man tape a couple
times because the Patriots are going to play a lot
of man to man against opponents. And when I watch
the Rams and watch them try to get open against

(50:08):
man to man coverage, like Cup used to just be
uncoverable one on one when you played him in straight up.
Now I don't necessarily see that.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
And with Nakua, I think.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
That he's a really good catch and run receiver, but
he's someone that I believe is more of a product
to Sean McVay and in the scheme, right, like get
once they get him open with the scheme, then he
can catch and run with the football and do the
things that he does with the ball in his hands.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
How then do you see the Patriots trying to match
up then with the Cup and Cool?

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, I definitely think they're going to play man again. Yeah,
it's a tough on.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
I definitely think they're going to play man. I mean
I think that's their college for now. Yeah, that's what
they do now.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
They know that.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
And the one thing that you look at with with
these Rams receivers outside of maybe too too atwell who
is a burner, but you like kind of that Marcus
Jones matchup probably on at well. I think the one
thing you look at with with cup and and Puka
is that they don't necessarily run by people. You know,
they're not receivers that are going to threaten you really

(51:10):
at the third level. They are more guys that want
to run you off the line of scrimmage and then
break at the intermediate level on crossing routes, out corners,
comebacks like things like that. So if you can give
corners leverage, you know, help into the middle of the
field and those situations and they can sit outside of
these receivers and just you know, follow them around or

(51:31):
trail them as we would call it in terms of
the technique, then you can have some success. And that's
what Miami was able to do was you know, they're
gonna okay, you know, Cooper Cups got like an option
on this. He can break in or he can break out. Well,
we're gonna put a defender right in the middle of
the field, so if he breaks in, it's gonna break
right into the help. If he breaks out, then the

(51:51):
corner's sitting right there for him on the out. So
that's what the Dolphins were able to do against this team.
And right now, you don't necessarily see them separating a
ton on film.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
If the Rams don't solve their red zone issues, which
they clearly had. Yeah last week, is this winnable game
for the Patriots?

Speaker 4 (52:09):
Yeah, look at their red zone issues are definitely documented.
And I would also just say there are a couple
of possessions in that game against the Dolphins where they're
just going backwards like on their own unforced errors like
bad snaps or bobbled exchanges with the running back and
like just weird things like they would get over the
fifty and then all of a sudden they take like a
twelve yard sack because the snap went over Stafford's head. Like,

(52:33):
you know, that's not necessarily the Dolphins, Like, that's that's
the Rams.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Issues that you talk too.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, getting in their own way.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
So if they continue to shoot themselves in the foot,
then yeah, they're gonna find themselves in a little bit
of a game here with the Patriots on Sunday. But
if they play their best, and even if you play
your best, and I would pick the Rams in the game,
and I probably would pick the Rams anyways, But if
the Rams keep on shooting themselves in the foot, then
sure anything can happen at that end.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
It is it likely then, and I want to expand
on that for just a second, Is it likely then
the Patriots won't be favored in a single game this year.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
I think they have a chance to be favored against
the Colts. The Colts are going to go back to
Anthony Richardson. It sounds like, at least for the time being,
he's got to stay healthy. If in three weeks the
Patriots play the Colts here at Chalette Stadium, uh, it's
either going to be Flacco or Anthony Richardson in the
Indianapolis Colts. And if the Patriots win another one of

(53:28):
these two games coming up in between now and then,
and they're you know one four, six or three or
five or whatever the heck the math is, then like
I could see them maybe being favored here.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Well, that's something I think to potentially look forward to.
But at the same time, you know, small steps, right, Yeah,
we're still in that stage where you've got to take
small steps. What needs to be seen this week for
you to continue to think this team is moving in
the right direction.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
I would say offensively, they got a nice performance I
thought from the supporting cast for Drake May. They ran
the ball a little bit. The offensive line wasn't a
complete sieve. The coordinating and the coaching, like we talked
about earlier, was decent enough. Like I don't again, I
still have not crazy about Alex van Peltz, you know,

(54:16):
play calling and scheming and x's and o's.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
But it was fine. It was good enough. He did,
you know, Tay.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
They took advantage of some busts and some opportunities that
the Bears gave them, and they, to their credit, they
hit them right. You know, they got a hooper coming
across the field with nobody on them, and they didn't
screwed up. They hit the open receiver. If they can
continue to get that level of performance from the offensive
line and Alex van pel and then have Drake may

(54:44):
play a little bit better on top of that, then
I can really start to get excited about this offense
and see where they're going. I thought in this game
against the Bears, I thought Drake took a little bit
of a step back, and I thought the rest of
it took a little of a step forward. So if
we can kind of get those things going together, then
we can start talking about them progressing on that side of.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
The ball tell you what I want to see. I
want to see. I realized that they're not going to
hold the Rams to one of fourteen on third den
like they held the Bears.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
Probably, which to me is ahough, the Rams are bad
on third down. Last week they weren't good. They weren't good,
but one of fourteen that was astounding to me. I
want to continue to see the defense figure out a
way to get off the field and hold the opponent
to thirty thirty three percent something like that conversion on
third day. If they can do that, that tells me
they're giving their offense enough opportunity to have the ball,

(55:35):
hold on to the ball, and maybe even score some
points with the ball fair enough.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
I think a big part of that. To me, I'm
a big believer in that funneling from early down defense.
And a big part of this Bears game was that
they stopped the run. You know, they were able to
stop the run. They were able to stop the Bears
on first down, and then you get into second and long,
you get into third and long, you know, so obviously
it goes without saying that it's easier to play third

(55:58):
and long defense than it is to play third and
short defense. So if you can get these teams into
longer down and distances. You know, we talk so much,
and myself included about the Longhorn package and about Brendon's school.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Are going there and I just going there again.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
And it's fun, Like it's fun to talk about it,
it's fun to write about. But the bottom line is,
if you're not in third and ten, then Brendon's Schooler
is not going to have an opportunity to come on
the field because he's not going to play on third
and three. Yep, He's going to play in a certain situation.
So they did a nice job against the Bears of
playing on a good stout run defense, and we're able
to get them into those some of those long yardages.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
You know, like Saturday, I once told us more cow Bell,
more schooler, more scholar, I need more Brendan school Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
I don't know if Stafford's not really the mobile quarterback
that you necessarily have to worry about like Caleb is.
So I don't know if this week will it will
be a big long hold package. Yeah, but I definitely
love Schooler's energy that he brings to the defensive side
of the ball. And they've needed you know, last year
they used mac Wilson a lot as a spy, you know,

(57:03):
in that sort of role in their five man rush package.
And you know, they didn't necessarily have a player like
that that that could do those sort of things the
way that mac Wilson could. And so it's nice that
they've found someone that you get him into third and
ten and you have a guy that can improvise or
run around a little bit back there. Now they'll have
that ability. Like I'll give you, you know, just an

(57:25):
example off the top of my head. We just talked
about am Anthony Richardson. Like if he's the court back
for the Colts in three weeks and the Patriots are
playing ar then maybe he's somebody that they do run
the Longhorn package.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
A final one that I want to hit you upset
of the head with. Yeah, okay, after seeing what you
saw last week in Chicago, all right, would you go
with the Williams or May at quarterback? Oh?

Speaker 4 (57:52):
That's tough because I don't want to get too caught
up in like recency bias, because my draft analysis was
that Caleb was the better prospect, and so I think
to be fair to him, It would be kind of
unfair to then reverse on that. But the one thing
that was definitely true for both of these guys and
why I was so high still on Drake May was

(58:14):
I felt like Drake May could win playing more traditional
quarterback than Caleb could. I thought that too much has
been and was made of Drake May the improviser or
Drake May the athlete, like great athlete. Don't get me wrong,
I'm not saying he's not, but I thought a little
bit too much was made of that being a crutch
for him. This is a guy that North Carolina won

(58:36):
from the pocket a lot and run from the pocket
a lot so far and his first five career starts,
whereas I feel like with Caleb, Caleb is truly one
of those guys that is going to want that to
be a big part of his game. So I feel
as though this is not that surprising that it's gone
this way just because of that, because you know, I

(58:57):
think Drake May is doing a lot more of the
traditional quarterback stuff than Caleb is right now for Chicago,
And you do see throws from Drake in structure that
are in rhythm and on time and to the right
read and accurate and on the move, and you see
the Patriots be able to generate some big plays off
of those things. I thought, in general, you still saw

(59:19):
some of that against Chicago, even though I had him,
As you know, this is probably his worst start in
my mind for Drake, out of all five of them.
But I still think that you saw plenty of that.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
He had better help.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
Yeah, you had a little bit better help, a little bit
better help. And I'm probably being too hard on him
for one play. Like, look, we're just at the point
to me where the the interception like he throw through
on Sunday against Chicago, Like we gotta get rid of
those like the You know, it's not to say that
he's not still a twenty two year old rookie, because
we're all aware that he is. He's gonna make mistakes,

(59:53):
but those are mistakes that you can avoid, like if
he throws a pick because he just throws a bad
ball and it's intercepted. I keep going back to the
very first picky through against Houston where he just sailed
it over Pop Douglas's head in the safety caught it
behind him. Like those plays I can kind of live
with because it's the right read. It's the right throw.
It just wasn't a good throw, right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
But the picky through against Chicago we got. Those have
to be nipped in the butt immediately, like you can't
keep doing that kind of stuff. Uh, and you know,
get away with it. So that play bothered me a lot,
I guess. So maybe I am looking too much into
one play. Uh, But I thought on the whole, you know,
grading it played by play, I still thought that it

(01:00:33):
was his worst performance.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
But I'm still I'm still a drake guy. Don't worry.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Don't worry. We won't give up the ship on him now. No,
I don't think I will either. Ev Thanks for the
help today, man, anytime there go all right, the one
and only Evan Lazar at Easy Lazarre on X is
where you'll find him, and that's where we That's kind
of where we are going into this thing. So at
this point in time, phone lines are open. I mentioned
that a little earlier. I'm going to get to a
couple of calls here in just a moment. But eight

(01:00:59):
five to five PATS five hundred toll free on the
TPX hotline eight five five p A t S five
hundred you've got podcasts at Patriots dot com as the
email address. You can also hit me up on x
at JR Broadcaster Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy bud
like the official beers sponsor of the New England Patriots.

(01:01:21):
And if you want to spend Black Friday weekend watching football,
I do, although h I don't know if I should
say this or not. What the hell? It's just me
and you, isn't it right, Matt okay and thousands of listeners?
Thousands millions? You're right, millions? Yeah, exactly, I'm gonna I'm

(01:01:46):
gonna be elsewhere on Black Friday weekend? Should I say?
Is that even? Is that even? Should I even? Should
I even mention that? I mean, you know, I don't
want anybody feel sorry for me. I just looked. I
don't feel sorry for you. I get to I'm going.
I'm going to cover the Battle for Atlantis. Yeah, I know,

(01:02:07):
which is it's a pretty cool thing to do over
the Thanksgiving holiday. But I do enjoy a good Black
Friday weekend and I love football over the Thanksgiving weekend
right Anyway, if you wanted to make it a good
deal on some Coco Locos out there, Coco Coco locos. Okay,
all right, all right, I'll have to take your word

(01:02:28):
for that. I don't do any of that stuff. I
don't do any you'll love that drink. I don't do that.
I lie too a lot. Uh what I want? It's
been black Friday weekend watching football instead of waiting in line. Well,
this November, Bob's is unboxing unbeatable values for your home
all month long, so you can skip the phony sales

(01:02:49):
and stock up early on everything from sofas to bedroom sets,
to stocking stuffers and plenty of well wowworthy gifts. Right,
so stop in and see how much you can say
when you dare to compare with Bob's Discount Furniture, the
official furniture store of the New England Patriots. All right,
let's get to some of the phones here as well.
Eight five five Pats five hundred. Also going to get

(01:03:10):
to a couple of emails our buddy Sean and Vancouver Sean.
Thanks for hanging in.

Speaker 8 (01:03:14):
My friend, No problem, John, Great to speak with you again.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Always good to have you, you know.

Speaker 8 (01:03:20):
Oh yeah, it's always great to speak with it. Now
your friend from the Rams media mentioned that we're he said,
you're gonna love seeing Verse on Sunday. I don't think
he's talking to me because I have a feeling I'm
not gonna love seeing Verse or Fisk or any of
those young, ferocious defensive linemen on the Rams. But I
don't want to see the making life difficult for the

(01:03:42):
Patriots and Drake May.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Yeah, I mean I understand that, I'm you know, looking
at it from a purely New England point of view.
I have a feeling that that could end up being
the difference in the game. That if the Patriots offensive
line does not come to protect and to play as
well as they did, you know last week for the
most part, that, yeah, a guy like Jared Vers could

(01:04:05):
make it really difficult on Drake May to be able
to find his receivers in time, which is where I
think the Patriots will largely have to have some semblance
of a controlling the clock running game again to take
the pressure off of the edge. And if they can
run the ball against the Rams, then I think you'll
see the Patriots just probably hanging there as long as
they're not shooting themselves in the foot. But if they're

(01:04:26):
forced to go to the air because they fall behind
early this one, this one could be over. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:04:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:04:33):
Well, speaking of offensive line, what we saw last Sunday
with the Bears is a great example of what happens
when you don't have a great offensive line. They were
missing three of their starters, yes, as the guard got
hurt early in the game, and they just I mean, sure,
the Patriots defense played really well, but that was less

(01:04:55):
than subpar players on offensive line, and Chicago couldn't do anything,
which is a big contrast to what they were doing
earlier in the season. So it makes you think, you know,
as a Patriots fan, hey, you know what, we don't
have it so bad. Our offensive line with just one
player who's actually a starter in a nu and everyone

(01:05:16):
else has backups like finding people off the street. Scott Peters,
this has done a really excellent job. We actually have
something of a semblance of the decent offensive line. Is
not good, but it's passable, and we're able to make
things work at times.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
Well, you know, like like we were discussing a little
bit earlier, they're hardly a team in this league at
this stage when you're in week eleven now, there's hardly
a team in the league at this stage that isn't
doing something that could be considered patchwork. Whether it's the
offensive line, defensive line, linebacking corps, secondary receivers, somebody somewhere,

(01:05:55):
Every team has got what they would consider to be
patchwork from what they originally intended for it to be.
So which teams are best suited to cover up the
warts to you know, bandage the boo boo so to speak?
Right now, I see one team. I see the Chiefs. Okay, yeah,
and that's the team.

Speaker 8 (01:06:16):
I mean, they've had problems, but they were able to overcome.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
It because well, and they've been able to overcome it
because they've got you know, singular standout talent at key
positions that can win you football game. And let's yeah,
it's Patrick Mahomes. Let's start with him. And you know
there are a couple of other teams. Detroit I think
is right there with them. And you know, frankly, I
was talking about this with somebody at school earlier today.
I'm like, you know, man, you know what, it would

(01:06:39):
be real easy to enjoy a Kansas City Detroit super
Bowl if we get to that far, because I'm gonna
root like hell for the Lions. And you know, I understand. Yeah,
And I think I think there'd be a lot of
people that would do that because the Lions have never
won a Super Bowl. They haven't won anything in the
NFL since what nineteen fifty six when it was the
old NFL Championship. So yeah, I'd be really easy to do.

(01:07:00):
And nobody wants to really see not enybody in New
England anyway it. I know, I wants to see the
Chiefs win three in a row because the Patriots, you know,
tried and couldn't quite get through themselves. But you got
to I think at some point in time, you got
to give credit where credit is due. Now that having
been said, you also have to watch for teams that

(01:07:22):
peak too early, and I'm wondering if the Chiefs are
not in that category, doesn't mean that they won't it
kind of, it doesn't mean that they won't do it.
But at the same time, I just get the feeling
that maybe, you know, because they're struggling and they're finding
different ways to win. I think, you know, a lot

(01:07:42):
of that is karma, and a lot of that is
their talent. A lot of that a lot of that
as they're coaching. But at the same time, you know,
you can only go to the well once so often.
I look for teams now that are starting to get
on a little bit of a roll, and I would
tell you that Buffalo falls into that category. I think
the Lions are still in that category. You know, They're
probably a couple of others as well that I'm not

(01:08:02):
thinking of off the top of my head. I'm not
sure the Chiefs are.

Speaker 8 (01:08:07):
Well, that's what I want to see. I don't remember
the last time I've rooted for the Bills, but I'm
going to root for them against the Chiefs, even though
they might be missing some of their top weapons. And
I think Coleman could be out as well as Kincaid,
and you know, they could be missing some some top
grkets in the passing game.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Yeah, you know. And here's another team that is totally
off the radar that I think has an opportunity. It's
a team that plays the Thursday night games, the Commanders.
They got to go on the road and they're gonna
play the Eagles. But I I got listen, that's gonna
be a heck of a game, I think on Thursday night,
you know, yeah, going to play Philadelphia and the winner
of that game is going to be right there in
the hunt for everything, you know, and all in all

(01:08:52):
the marbles, and probably as a primary contender. I'm still
not going to sell the forty nine ers short. Even
if the you know, the the forty nine ers, you know,
with their you know, current struggles on the field, you know,
then they were able to you know, get by Tampa
this past week. But I'm just you know, I think
there's some really good football teams and in the NFC.
I'm not sold on the AFC beyond Kansas City in

(01:09:16):
Buffalo maybe right now, I don't think I don't think Baltimore. Yeah,
I don't think the Ravens were consistent enough for my
for my liking, to be honest.

Speaker 8 (01:09:26):
With you, Their defense, the problems, especially when they lost
they lost one of their best corners in our last game,
and that really, I mean, I think I gave up
tons and tons of points to Cincinnati because of it.
So yeah, they need they need help on defense. But yeah,
it's there's there's some interesting things and I'm really looking

(01:09:48):
forward to to that Thursday game because I want to
see what Jayden Dianels can do against the Eagles. And
there's some there's some great, great football to come, so
I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Well, let me ask you, then, Sean, what your your
thoughts are about, you know, the steps forward that this
Patriots team has taken. You know, uh where? I mean,
what surprised you the most about last week? And was
that smoke and mirrors or is this actual progress?

Speaker 8 (01:10:14):
Well, it's some progress. They certainly took advantage and as
you should of a very weak offensive line. I didn't
anticipate the win, and I'm glad that it happened.

Speaker 9 (01:10:27):
I wasn't.

Speaker 8 (01:10:28):
I'm still scratching my head of as to why they
played Osborne over Borne. I'd like to see Bourne get
another chance because I think he has talent and I
think Drake may confined him as it looked like he
was a couple of weeks ago against I was it
was it the Jaguars. I can't remember the game, but

(01:10:49):
Bourne looked like he was he was taking a turn
after the injuries. So I'd like to see that happen
and you know, some other players stepping forward. I want
to see what the secondary can do this week, because
last week they looked great, but again, you know they
the the Bears didn't have the time to throw the
ball because Kid Williams was under so much pressure. So

(01:11:10):
I'd like to see how how they hold up against uh,
some some great receivers, you know. I know Evan said
that Cooper Cup doesn't really have what he had a
few years ago, but then they have other receivers as well,
and Robinson and and even at Well, and of course
they have a Puk Natua who's who's still a tremendous weapons.

(01:11:31):
So it's going to be a good challeance to see
what they can do defensively against that passing game.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
Yeah, I agree with that. I'm gonna I'm going to
look forward to the challenge. I hope that the Patriots
secondary is up to it because they may not face
a better one two punch at receiver than what they're
going to face this weekend. I've always kind of liked
Matthew Stafford at quarterback, even though I think he you know,
got a little bit of a bill of goods. But
I was happy to see him, you know, having won
a Super Bowl because I think he's got some real talent,

(01:11:59):
but he definitely needs help. And the one thing that
the Rams haven't been able to get and one of
the things that really killed them last week against the
Dolphins was the lack of a running game. So if
I'm the Patriots, if I'm the Patriots, look, I don't
want Stafford to beat me with his arm. I want
to make sure that you know we're doing what we
need to do to make sure that you know, those
two guys, you know, maybe they catch a few over

(01:12:20):
the middle, I don't want them damaging in the red zone.
So I might have to think, you know, similarly like
the Dolphins did in that.

Speaker 8 (01:12:26):
Regard, they something to set the edge, because you don't
want Williams to finding tons of yards going around you
like that to make sure that they cover that up.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Sure, yep, I agree.

Speaker 8 (01:12:38):
All right, well I'll let you go. Thanks a lot done,
Thank you, Sean. Be another great game. We're not going
to make any predictions, but I hope the Patriots have
a good showing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
So yep, sounds like a plan. Sean of Vancouver eight
five five Pats five hundred. Russell Baxter will join us
here at the top of the hour. Let me let's
hit a couple of emails here and then we'll hear
from Drake. May you know coming up in just a
couple of moments. But in case you missed him today,
we'll reprise that for you. Jacob the pool guy checks in,

(01:13:06):
you know on email. I love you guys. But all
this talk about if May had started, we'd have a
better record and May would be better is just silly.
I'm talking revisionist history through ruby tinted lenses here. That
old line we had during those games was an absolute mess.
Brissette was running for his life at the snap of
the ball. He took a ton of hits, made some

(01:13:29):
neo and the matrix type evasions. Yes, May is better
of a com on. He wasn't ready, probably would have
been hurt and even turned the ball over more. Okay,
fair points, Jake, fair points, And you're right, it's really
probably hard to make that even sort of comparison because
he likely was not ready yet to do what they

(01:13:53):
needed him to do in order to be able to
run the offense that we're seeing him run right now.
Be that as it may. We knew those of us
that watched practice, we knew in training camp he was
the more talent of the two quarters. And I'm really
not disparaging Jacoby said, they're different quarterbacks. They have different talents.

(01:14:18):
They have different abilities, and the Patriots brought Jacoby was
set in for a specific reason, and that was basically
to man the fort until they felt Drake was ready. Now, look,
they made the change. When they made the change, there
are many of us who observed the team who thought
that Drake was ready a little earlier than when he

(01:14:40):
actually got in there. Look, it's it's just a point
of conjecture. They're the ones that get paid to make
these decisions. We don't, so obviously their decision is what's
going to go down. I think my general point is
is that, look, if he had had an opportunity to
play a little bit earlier, that the Patriots would have
had a chance to win some of these games, if

(01:15:02):
not outright win one or two of those. And you're
looking at the difference maybe between three and seven and
five and five right now with this team. I don't
think that's just I don't think that's far fetched. Now,
could he been running for his life, sure, Could this
team put him in harm's way? They might have, which
is one of the reasons why they decided to err
on the side of caution. And again it's all revisionist

(01:15:24):
history here. I understand that. But when you're in a
business to win football games, and you've already seen with
your two eyes, who is better equipped for the long
haul to win football games in this league? Why do
you not play him? This argument of well he's not ready, Well,
who says he's not ready? You don't know. Unless you
put someone under the gun. You don't know. Unless you

(01:15:46):
put someone in the frying pan, right in the fire,
you don't know. And the best way to learn. And
coaches say this, players say this. People have been in
the media who covered the NFL say this all over
the place. All Right, I'm gonna say this, and I've
covered the NFL for four decades. I'm in my fifth decade. Okay,

(01:16:11):
that's how old I am.

Speaker 6 (01:16:12):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
I started covering the NFL in the nineteen eighties. Right,
But here's the thing you learn by playing. There is
no better experience than guys playing. This is the problem
that teams that are successful versus teams that are not

(01:16:34):
successful run across all the time. Oh, I got a
kid who's really great, but he's not ready, Well make
him ready. Well they got to prove it in practice.
Well I saw it in practice, And so that's really
the basis for what I'm saying, play Drake, what Evan's saying,
Play Drake. I don't have any problems really with the

(01:16:58):
way the Patriots handle this situation. Zero. It's hard for
me to criticize because, again, they're paid to make these decisions.
Our job here is to bring up what if. Our
job here is to scrutinize. Our job here is to
put it under the microscope. We don't necessarily have to
agree with everything. We don't disagree with everything. It's okay

(01:17:18):
to like some of the things that get done. It's
okay to also dislike some of the things that are done,
because this is what creates conversation. This is what creates conjecture,
This is what creates interest in the team, the program,
and the welfare of the franchise. The conversation. So all
we're doing is creating and continuing conversation. Doesn't mean that

(01:17:38):
we're experts, but you have to at least admit that
there are people throughout the league who say the best
way for a guy to learn is by playing. I
don't know what else. I don't know what if you
can do? What else you can say? And when you
see with your own two eyes that he's the better player.
How much worse could it have been? And Jacob, you

(01:18:02):
actually bring out a good point. You know, the old
line we had on those games was an absolute mess.
Sure it was. Who's to say though, he couldn't have
made more plays with his legs? Right? Who's to say that?
We don't know that? And again this is all conjecture.
We don't know that. Could you put him in harm's way? Look,
you're in harm's way every time you snap the football

(01:18:23):
in the National Football League? Have you ever stood on
an NFL sideline for an actual game. I'm going to
throw that one out there to anybody and everybody. Have
you stood on an NFL sideline? Have you seen? Have
you heard? Have you smelled what the rock is cooking?

(01:18:46):
Have you? I mean literally, have you experienced the physicality
of an NFL satelline. Now I've covered college football for
a long time too. It's night and day almost between
the college game, because you got the raw rah, you
got the emotion, all that stuff, and the pro game,
which is all about winning. And if you're truly all

(01:19:10):
about winning, then you need to put your best foot
forward and you put your best players on the field.
That's the only real criticism I ever had of the
Patriots not playing Drake Maine from the start. You took
the guy with the third pick. He should be a player, Okay,

(01:19:31):
you want to bring him along more slowly because you're
not sure that everything else around him was up to stuff.
I get that. Not gonna argue that point, but I'm
all about winning football games. I'm not sure quite that
this franchise, in this coaching stat was about that. If
you want to criticize, that's a criticism. I'm not sure
they were about that. I think they were gunshy with

(01:19:55):
Drake because of what happened here previously with Mac Jones.
I believe that. That's my own personal opinion, and I
think they wanted to avoid that kind of a comparison
at all costs. So they were just gonna go the
opposite way, and they were gonna do it, and they're
gonna let people yell and scream and complain and criticize
like like we did. Okay, that's fair. Again, they're the

(01:20:18):
ones that get paid to make these decisions, all right,
So it kind of is what it is. But I
think it's also reasonable to assume that this patrio his
team would have been a little better then, maybe not appreciably,
but a little better. I think it's also reasonable to
assume that they'd be better now. They'd be that much

(01:20:38):
further ahead of the game now if he'd had that
extra experience to learn from, especially through adversity. My two cents,
you want to call that revision is history, you can
call it revision is history. I don't know necessarily that
that's the case, but just my two cents, I'd love
to hear your thoughts on it, if you want to

(01:20:59):
agree or disagree eight five to five, Pats five hundred
or podcasts at Patriots dot com. Austin and Illinois writes,
I have no knowledge of any of this, but could
Bourne not play last Sunday be due to Soldier field
being grass instead of terf for his knee? The field
didn't look terrible on TV, but I know in the
past that field can look and be pretty awful. You know,

(01:21:21):
that's an interesting thought and I never really thought about it,
but it kind of lines up with some of the
reasoning that we've heard for that the Patriots wanted to go.
At least they said they wanted to go with the
younger receiving set and the fact that bourn really didn't
have a good game the week before, a couple of
drops in there. You know, he stumbled, you know, on
the pass that was intercepted. You know, he just didn't

(01:21:43):
have a very good game, and they wanted younger slash
fresher legs against the Bears. Ended up working out right,
because the bottom line again is, Hello, they won the game, right,
where's Herman Edwards and we need him? Hello, you play
to win the game. Okay, that's that's kind of what

(01:22:05):
they did.

Speaker 6 (01:22:06):
Hello, you play to win the game.

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
Thanks, coach, appreciate you. So I think they felt like
physically those receivers were better at that moment. Maybe they
were thinking about Kendrick in that regard. I think you
actually bring up a really good point, Austin, but nobody
ever really verified that this week. Look, the fact of
the matter is is that I think the Patriots are

(01:22:29):
better receiving corps with Kendrick then without him, especially over
the long haul. Like Kendrick Born, I think he's a
good locker room guy. I think that the players like him.
I think he's a good you know, uh stirr. He's
the stir that you know, he's the straw that stirs

(01:22:50):
the drink type of guy back there. And I think
they need savvy. I think they need veteran leadership, you know,
at a position that particularly has struggled with a lot
of that this week so or this this year, last
week in particular. So anyway, good one, good question if
you have another one fire Away Podcasts at Patriots dot

(01:23:12):
Com overall, all right, before we get to Russell Baxter,
in case you missed it, I wanted to dial in
to Drake Main for just a little bit and what
he had to say earlier today here at Jillette Stadium
in previewing not just the Rams, but talking a little
about last week against the Bears. And and here's the
thing that I noticed about Drake. He's more and more confident.
In case you missed this, He's more and more confident

(01:23:36):
when he's at the podium. You can sense almost a
little brashness about Drake, which I like, this is what
you're hearing, this is what you're seeing in his leadership
skills with this football team overall. And while some of
the guys are really stopping and actually now beginning to
listen to what the rookie quarterback has to say, see

(01:23:56):
what you think for yourself?

Speaker 6 (01:24:01):
Great.

Speaker 9 (01:24:02):
A lot of said this weekend of Sets of Urgency
was drag message.

Speaker 7 (01:24:06):
How do you take that?

Speaker 9 (01:24:07):
And we kind of talked about kind of what you
said to your offense after practice one day last week.
What kind of things go through your mind is to
try to get back to back wins.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
For the first time.

Speaker 10 (01:24:17):
Is build on it from last week. I think, you know,
a big winning in Chicago and a you know, way
away game in a big time atmosphere. Remember so the
time I was yelling set hut for the snap a
few times on a fourth down before I called time
out and they couldn't hear me. So, you know, a
big one from there, and just build on it, like
I said, Like I said, since Sergercy, what what coach
Mayo's a preaching? I think it starts with cleaning up,
you know, from from the game Sunday. Clean up some

(01:24:39):
little things that I think we could have ended up
being a bigger, bigger margin victory for us, you know,
especially offensively, defense did about all they could scoring in
the red zone and obviously my turnover. Gotta just keep
on you know, these little things that can kind of
help build the complementary football like coach Mayo's preaching about.
So I think, you know, got another chance here at home,
and l has come off a short week, so I

(01:25:00):
gotta help prepare for them. And they're good upfront on defense,
so I'm preparing for them.

Speaker 6 (01:25:04):
How important is Alex f Alex ben Felt then team
his scenes.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
Yeah, it's been huge.

Speaker 10 (01:25:10):
I think he's just a confidence booster for a quarterback.
You know, you love playing for the offense quarter like
a v P. You know, he's he's positive and also
at the same time, we'll coach you hard. You know,
he's done it. He's played quarterback, played quarterback in this
league and at a high level, so he knows what's
you know, what it needs to be done, and in
the task he knows his tall task as well, which
is pretty you know him and TC both kind of
you have the quarterback minds and coach McAdoo, So those

(01:25:31):
those three are I know, it's like how hard it
is to play quarterback in this league and give a
lot of leeway, but at the same time, you know
what's you needs to be done. Yeah, I think I
think I'm I'm working towards that. I think that's more
of a perfective thing. I wouldn't say, you know, for me,
I'm just trying to build on every day. I think,

(01:25:52):
you know, it's more of a thing for the outside
crowd to say. I think I'll come a long way
within the system of learning the system, knowing what to do,
knowing where guys line up, getting run in and out
of run checks and and past things. So I think,
but I wouldn't say, better to say more comfortable. I think,
you know, a lot of stuff is coming to tie together.
You know, I think still a lot of the same players,
and you know, still the same player and the same

(01:26:13):
players that you have made in college is making today.
So I think just building on getting more comfortable in
this offense and just growing as a you know, a
young young young adult.

Speaker 6 (01:26:24):
You asked the question.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
You were talking about a people said, like when the
film comes up with him Pittsburg.

Speaker 10 (01:26:34):
Yes, cool, he saw some of his guitar fakes and
his play action and at center and he threw it well,
so he could throw the football. So it's it's cool
seeing he doesn't throw very much anymore that he's like
throwing like one time, you know, this season. But seeing him,
you know, do some of the same actions or you know,
throwing the same concepts. It's pretty cool and it's pretty neat,
you know, sitting out there on some old you know,
granny film.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
So drink with the support.

Speaker 9 (01:26:56):
But like Kobe potentially took over as the starter and
wasn't at all difficult to find when to speak up
as a leader, knowing he's still a captain.

Speaker 10 (01:27:04):
And so step Yeah, it's a good question, you know.
I think Jacoby is still, you know, a big time
leader on this football team. Especially he's in my ear
and I don't know if you'll see him on the sidelines,
but it's basically like he's he's playing the game over there.
He's yelling and yelling at me, youlling at the rest
on the sideline. So he's very animated and that's his personality.
I think everybody respects him on this football team, has
a lot of respect. And see what he did in
the Jets game. I think that even just you know,

(01:27:25):
raised the bar of him coming in after you know,
me being the starter and him coming in and getting
a big time win at home.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
Think those guys just respect him.

Speaker 10 (01:27:31):
And he's been, uh, it's been a lot to me
of some mentor and and just trying to learn everything
I can. He's probably tired of me asking questions, but
now I think he enjoys and we enjoy, you know,
be in the same room together.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
The virtual reality headsets, we're a bit of a storyline
this summer.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Was curious how much of those help you before you
actually got to play.

Speaker 7 (01:27:48):
Do you still use them now that you're actually out.

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
On the field.

Speaker 10 (01:27:51):
Yeah, they give just some of the base concepts and
some of the concepts of carrying weekend week out, a
little bit of the two minute stuff we have in
some of the VR, but the vrs, you know, been
a nice edition. Thankful to the pages Orgulation for forgetting
that and using that. And I think it's some you know,
every week just going back to the base stuff and
sometimes we can throw in, you know, the different team
or the stadium we're playing in and get different looks.

(01:28:11):
So it's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
When he learned about yourself over the past five stars.

Speaker 10 (01:28:16):
That you've first starts learned about myself, I think just
battling back from university and versity and times in the
game and times in this season. You know, starting the season,
obviously you plan on he wanted to be the starter
and handle university, you know, throughout the locker room or throughout, uh,
just being on the football team and then the anniversity

(01:28:37):
when up you're actually in there playing, So just channeling times,
you know, difficult times and and bouncing back and no
one at this position that you know, these guys look
to me and and know that you know kind of
get a you'll keep a keep a up kind of
upbeat mindset and up your personality because these guys you'll
follow me and listen to me, and you'll expect me. Sorry,

(01:28:57):
I know you mentioned you know as a football fan,
you know getting the face guys like Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
This week you get to face Matthew Stafford. What is
uh is he somebody you followed as a kid, and
what is it against?

Speaker 3 (01:29:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Is you know mass staverage?

Speaker 10 (01:29:11):
I think you know back in the days watching lines,
if you you know, I always saw him play on
Thanksgiving and seeing him play is is pretty cool with
thanks having coming up. So anytime you play a Super
Bowl winning quarterback and you know, guy in this league
has done a long time and play at a high level,
it's cool to watch. I think I'll definitely take a
moment and always try to watch them up see what
they do or see how he's throwing it. That's kind
of cool thing that I try to do. And other

(01:29:32):
than that, just hopefully get a chance to meet him
and you know, respect his game and you hope that
you get a chance to come out with a win
against you big time quarterback like that. It's always a
pretty cool feeling.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
Sure on no sliding, and that's why you have a
plant out of the sis.

Speaker 6 (01:29:45):
You know, he joked that there might.

Speaker 4 (01:29:46):
Be a sliding period of practice to say, has that
been conveyed to often been coaching out in terms just
working on sliding and things like that.

Speaker 10 (01:29:53):
Yeah, I wouldn't say working on You know, I play
baseball growing up, and you know I've slid and the
one time I slid against the Jets, I got hit
in the head. So I think there's times and places
for it. I think I definitely do a good better
job of getting down, taking care of my body, and
and I know that I took one and you know
the Bears game that was done with the kind of
third quarter, So you know, I'm I'm mindful of it,
and the coaches are doing good job.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
TC.

Speaker 10 (01:30:14):
Does guys job emphasizing it, So I think it's, uh,
you know, it's kind of different when you're between the
lines and you're trying to show your competitive side, so.

Speaker 11 (01:30:22):
You can show a lot of frustration.

Speaker 9 (01:30:24):
I guess I would say the field is not letting
your emotions get the best and you were not showing
emotions something he comes naturally or is that something.

Speaker 6 (01:30:31):
You are talking about.

Speaker 10 (01:30:33):
Yeah, I think it's come naturally, you know. Growing up,
I think I was always kind of you know, even
kill mindset. And at the same time, I think, you know,
showing frustration at times can be good, can be good
for the offense, and you can kind of fire those
guys up, so kind of mixing and kind of feeling
that out of you know, when I could use the
expecially in practice, I think getting frustrated and and showing hey,
you know you pick it up is a is sometimes

(01:30:54):
can be good. So I think you're just bouncing that
aspect of it. And at the same time, you know,
remind those guys of pumping them up, and that's everybody
you know, feels good when you get pumped up.

Speaker 9 (01:31:02):
So ing people haven't talked about having a short memory
of being a fans, specially in the games.

Speaker 3 (01:31:08):
If you agree and you so, how do you manage
to keep the number short?

Speaker 6 (01:31:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:31:12):
Short, re membery, that's it, you know. I think it's
one of the biggest things for playing quarterback in this league.
I think you see you know this past Sunday. You
know Jared Goff, I think you know his game, you
just turnovers and what he does to come back and
lead that football team to win. I think there's so
many times throughout the season you see, you know quarterback,
especially you know at this level that are you handle
a university and you know, it's tough.

Speaker 3 (01:31:31):
It's tough.

Speaker 10 (01:31:32):
It's a tough feeling going out there after throwing an
interception and jogging back out there, you know, throwing it again.
So I think it's something that it's kind of, you know,
brushed under the rug when you're facing you know, good
defense and you go out there and make a bad
play and have to run back out there and facing
those same guys and have to throw it again. So
I think it's definitely having a short memory, like you said,
and just trusting those guys around you. I think our

(01:31:53):
team does a good job and especially the veterans and
Jakobe has been great on the sideline with you know plays,
and I think just bouncing back and seeing how you
bounce back.

Speaker 9 (01:32:02):
The team released the micd up piece view from the
game the other day, and a significant percentage of it
was you basically popping up teammates.

Speaker 7 (01:32:11):
Encouraging them during the game.

Speaker 9 (01:32:13):
Why is that important for you to sort of take
time during during game day to make sure that you're.

Speaker 7 (01:32:17):
Doing that for your teammates.

Speaker 10 (01:32:18):
Yeah, I think, you know, pregames, kind of checking those
chicking on the guys, see how they're feeling. I think
I think I was saying a lot of the same
things over and over, you know, and the miked up,
so I kind of kind of keep it simple and
and don't try to know bug me by too much
because everbody's kind of got their own thing on game day.
But uh, yeah, I think pumping them up, like I said,
you know, everybody feels feels good when you say, hey,
you know, let's go, or hey nice play, or hey,

(01:32:40):
great job up front. I think little things like that
can go a long way. And being the leader on
the offense and pumping those guys.

Speaker 9 (01:32:45):
Up with your with your lineman said again, they caught
you in the locker room, say let's go get something
to eat tomorrow.

Speaker 10 (01:32:52):
Yeah when somebody, uh we got somebody, let's say wednesday,
we have some need Monday. So yeah, we went somewhere.
So went somewhere good, So.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
Thank you. All right, So there you go. He carries
himself with a heck of a lot more poise than
you expect for what a twenty two year old kid.

Speaker 6 (01:33:11):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:33:12):
Uh, I'm becoming a more of a fan every day.
I also become more of a fan as the Patriots
get him more help. So he's got more weapons that
he can throw, to hand off, to block for him.
That kind of sign, that kind of thing on that
side of the football. I'd be remiss if I didn't
mention here though. That The other thing that I think
that you know, we we haven't talked about her all today,

(01:33:33):
that I think will be a factor for someday's game
against the Rams is the acquisition of Jannikin Gotway, who
was claimed by the Patriots last week, veteran linebacker pass
rusher from Baltimore. And think about what his world has
been like. He's gone from a first place team in
Baltimore to a last place team in New England. So

(01:33:55):
it'd be real easy to get down on yourself, Bill,
be real easy to think, ah, woe is me? You know,
I had a chance to go to the playoffs and
maybe you know, win a ring or whatever to a
team now that wow, clearly is rebuilding for the future.
But he just got through, you know, talking in the
locker room not too long ago, and I could admit,

(01:34:15):
let me read your quote, it didn't really matter to
me where I was drafted. It was a team that
didn't win a lot. That's when he was with Jacksonville.
Remember he was on that Jacksonville team that ended up
developing and coming here and losing the AFC Championship game
to the Patriots. He said, the next year, you were
in the AFC Championship. It's all about perspective. It's all
about how you can build team camaraderie and change those things. Now,

(01:34:39):
he's a nine year veteran, he's got more than seventy
career sacks. He certainly has been an important part of
both what they built in Jacksonville and what they were
trying to build and maintain in Baltimore. And now he's
in New England, and obviously he's in New England for
a reason, because Baltimore didn't see a fit for him anymore,
especially beyond this year. But here's an opportunity now for

(01:35:00):
a veteran presence for a team that needs that in
the locker room. Here's an opportunity for a guy who
might still have we don't know yet, and we'll probably
find out more this weekend, that might still have a
little gas left in the tank. Here's a guy that
drov Meyos says can play three downs as opposed to
being just a situational player. Boy, do they need that

(01:35:21):
because we know sometimes they've had trouble stopping the run
up the middle, and we know that they've had some
big gaps in the linebacking corps since Jowan Bentley went
down early in the year. I'm excited to see what
in Gocwa can provide this team on and off the field.

Speaker 6 (01:35:40):
A real woman could stop you from drinking.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
Y's a real big woman.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
It's time to go around the NFL with football guru
Russell Baxter.

Speaker 3 (01:35:49):
Now the name is Flounder on Patriots playbook. I'm also
excited to hear what Russell Baxter might be able to
think about and getting some of his thoughts on a
guy like in Gokwa going from a first place team
to a last place team, but at the same time,
you know, maybe providing a little leadership. And here's a
guy that probably has some perspective on moves like this.

(01:36:12):
I don't know, Russell over what the last thirty thirty
five years or so.

Speaker 6 (01:36:17):
Well, obviously, now John in free agency and by the way,
how are you if you're doing well?

Speaker 3 (01:36:21):
Excellent, yes, sir, thank you, Jo.

Speaker 6 (01:36:23):
And you know free agency now which began in earnest
in nineteen ninety three, Now you see these kind of
moves that take place. We saw a lot of action
during the trade deadline, it just wasn't wide receivers. But
what's intriguing about in Gocway is he has been a
professional pass rusher for a number of teams, and early

(01:36:44):
in his career, I wouldn't even say early in in
the middle of his career, which he's only played nine years. Yeah, okay.
He hasn't seen a lot of action necessarily the last
you know, year or two, so I think there is
a lot left in the tank. I think they'll probably
start him out using him more situationally than anything else.
But you'll remember he was traded more time. He didn't

(01:37:09):
really hit the free agency market. A lot of times
we traded. You know, he was with the Jaguars, as
you said, and then there was a you know, if
necessarily in the same word at Baltimore, Minnesota, the Raider,
the Colt, the Bear. He's like the and you'll appreciate this,

(01:37:30):
like the Brandon Cook of defense who spent most of
his time going from team to team and being traded
and not being a free agent. So you know, considering,
you know, the Patriots gave up the top pass rusher
in a trade to Kansas City. Now they get a
very veteran experience guys that now have a draft pick

(01:37:50):
next year. So the key will be here is can
he perform down the stretch and more importantly, does he
have enough by the end of the year that they
warn't a series look at him bringing him back next year.
So you can't you can't go wrong with the move
like that, and you know, I have to go back

(01:38:11):
to look, I don't I don't think. I think he
barely played with the Ravens this year if at all. Okay, again,
don't quote me on that one, but let's put it
this way, if he did play for the Ravens, no
one noted, and that's not a knock on him, that's
a knock on the Baltimore defense.

Speaker 3 (01:38:30):
Sure, yep would agree. The one thing that stands out
to me is I remember early in his career he's
a Pro Bowl player. I think he actually led the
NFL and forced fumbles one year, if I'm not mistaken.
So here's a guy that knows how to hit. Here's
another here's a guy that knows how to lead by
example and let his play do the talking. And that's
the kind of culture that as this team continue, this
franchise continues to rebuild and get back maybe some semblance

(01:38:53):
of what we had a few years ago. This is
the kind of guy I think that can help you
get there.

Speaker 6 (01:38:58):
Well, this is the kind of guy. Now listen, you know,
and I don't have a whole shark in front of me. Okay, yep.
There are guys who pile up back and get the
quarterback on the ground. There are guys who would impact
stack makers and the ball is on the ground as well. Okay,

(01:39:18):
the quarterback on the ground and the ball out. That's
why a guy like TJ. Watt is so invaluable. He's
got over one hundred stacks. I think he now has
thirty one force fumbles in his There are other guys
who are great back artists, but they don't have that
abillit with the strip sack, the sud to hit with

(01:39:39):
the ball popped out and stuff like that. Those are
game changing play. They flipped the field. They make life better.

Speaker 7 (01:39:45):
For the offense.

Speaker 6 (01:39:46):
So you have somebody here who can is that kind
of a player? And dare I say, going against the
team this week that certainly had problems protecting their veteran
quarterback on Monday night?

Speaker 3 (01:40:00):
Sure? All right? So then I got to ask you
the obvious question. Here a guy that was in Jacksonville,
you already mentioned it. Then he went to Minnesota. Then
he went to the Raiders. You know, he went to
the Ravens, he went to the Colts. I mean, he's
bounced around a little bit.

Speaker 6 (01:40:14):
Why, well, he's maybe more stop than Amtrak.

Speaker 3 (01:40:18):
I know that true.

Speaker 6 (01:40:20):
Well, you know, I don't know. You know, I think
early in his career he was I got the sense
he wanted to get paid because he was not a
high draft voice. And you know, in this league, unless
you're a first round pick, that second contract is very,
very important to you. I think some of it has
also been a circumstanced with him the right opportunity to

(01:40:42):
get the right player. You know, early in this you remember,
you remember ant Kwine Boulder, who was one of the
most respective players.

Speaker 11 (01:40:49):
In the league.

Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
Absolutely, yeah, yes, you.

Speaker 6 (01:40:51):
Know, but he didn't wind up testing free agency until
very late in his career. He was a guy who
got traded to a bunch of teams. Okay, So sometimes
that's part of it as well. I think sometimes you
have to be alarmed when you see a guy who
comes in and is not productive and disgruntled, and that's

(01:41:12):
not necessarily been the case when in gotway. So, like
I said, he could make a big impact on Sunday
in this game. And again I'd have to go back
to look at how many plays he actually played this
year with the Ravens, which I know was not a lot.
Their pass rush and their defense overall has been one

(01:41:33):
of the big disappointments in the league, and so I'd
like to pick up. I think it's a no lose
move for the Patriots, and you know, let's see if
they can win two games in a row, which it's
been a while.

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
Yeah, very true. That kind of puts us right where
we are a team that has a chance to win
too in a row and get in on a winning
streak for the first time. Really, you know, this year
a legit opportunity. Although we may be selling the Rams
a little bit short. And the Rams are a little
bit confusing because they had a couple of pretty good
offensive outputs before, you know, coming up short against the

(01:42:10):
Dolphins last week, and so we spent a little bit
of time talking about this earlier in the program, and
and it seemed like they came up short in the
red zone. But they've got opportunity. They still got their receivers,
you know, they've got some health back on the offensive side,
but the conversion rate wasn't there, and defensively it wasn't
quite enough in terms of contain And so the Rams

(01:42:33):
are just kind of misfiring, and you have to wonder
whether or not they find their stride again, because they
look to me to be every bit as dangerous as
they you know, were what we thought they were at
the beginning of the year.

Speaker 6 (01:42:46):
Well, I mean, remember they you know, they early in
the season, there was that horrible losst with Cardinals in Arizona,
and that had to do with the fact that they
were very banged up. They were just they had just
won three in a row. They're very propu. I would
put them in like the one of the five most
confusing teams in the league this season. They're sitting at

(01:43:06):
four and five and after looking like they were hitting
their striketh, they didn't score touchdown against Miami. You know
that's not necessarily no name defense these days. They the
Dolphins struggled all year to stack the quarterback. They had
a career, i'm sorry, a season high four stack in
that game. They turned over Stafford, they turned over Kyrin Williams.

(01:43:29):
I thought that was the the game was. Miami's defensive
front did not let Kyl Williams get loose. He's been
a standout for them, started late last season. This season,
he's been you know, as a runner and a receiver.
You know, we know about Papa, we know Pokin Naku
and so on. But you know, you mentioned their third

(01:43:51):
I think they were three of twelve on third down
in the game one Monday night, and in some ways
I think they made Miami's defense look better than well
it actually is.

Speaker 3 (01:44:01):
Yeah, that was. That was kind of where I was.

Speaker 6 (01:44:04):
The defensive lineman Jared Verse, who created a little havoc
the other night as well. So I'm not sure what
version of the Rams was going to see. Remember when
they beat Seattle and overtime, John, twenty six twenty they
got one hundred and three yard interception return for one

(01:44:25):
of their touchdowns. Okay, and uh, you know all butcher
the Seahawks wide receivers DK Metcalf didn't play and one
of the Seahawks wide receivers had one hundred and eighty yards.
So this is a very perplexing team that last year
was what three and six, went seven of eight and

(01:44:48):
did not you know, made the playoffs, fell short. The
thing that stands out to mea most about them, And
even though Miami didn't do a good job running the football, John,
go back to the opening week when they lost to
Detroit in overtime twenty six twenty, If memory sirved, Detroit
got the ball in overtime and never threw the ball,

(01:45:12):
never threw it, never threw the ball, and ran right
down the field into the end zone on about a
nine or ten plays drive. All runs yeh and if
it wasn't all runs, there was maybe one pat So
I think they can be overpowered to young defense a
lot of no names. I'm trying to think that the
guy used to Oh that's right, Aaron Donald.

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
Isn't there anything not there anymore? Yeah, that's right, you know,
And they say sometimes you hit strength head on right
when you're going it. So I mean I might be
trying to, you know, go right at a guy like
Verse in order to basically neutralize him, and the Papers did.
That's one of the reasons why they won the game
in Chicago this last week is they basically bludgeoned. The
Bears had one hundred and forty four yards rushing about

(01:45:55):
four and a half yards to carry pretty good output,
one of the best outputs they've had in some time,
you know, in the run game, and that might be
one way to sort of neutralize what the Rams have
to offer.

Speaker 6 (01:46:05):
Well, I don't think there's any question about it. I
think you have to test that RAMS defense, which has been,
like I said, it's been shaky at best. You know, listen,
if they had not managed to pull out for less
than less way to describe it, almost a miracle win

(01:46:25):
over the forty nine ers. Earlier in the season, they'd
be in dire straight Okay, yeah, because there there are
times that, you know, they have looked like a decent team,
but too many times this year they looked like a
subpart team. And again, I think some of that is
the you know, overall changeover in the roster and so on.

(01:46:47):
I think it's a team that's far too dependent on
its offense and whether people do like it or not,
you've got to play some defense in this league. You know,
that's that's going to wind up costing certain teams as
we get closer and closer to the playoffs. And I
know we're going to touch on this the AFC. Oh boy, yeah,

(01:47:08):
what what a mess right now? I know there's eight
weeks to go, yep, but it's don't you find it
odd that there are only six teams in the conference
that have a winning record?

Speaker 3 (01:47:19):
Well, yeah, I was. You know, I mentioned this earlier
that you know, to me, there are two teams that
are right now are standing head and shoulders above everybody
else in the AFC, and one of them is the
defending champs. So you know, I'm a little surprised at
the depth. If you want depth. You got to go
to the NFC, and let's start with the Thursday night game.
You got the Commanders playing at the Eagles, and that's

(01:47:39):
certainly for NFC East supremacy. But you would have knocked
me over with a feather if you'd told me that
Washington would be there at this stage of the season.
Earlier in the year.

Speaker 6 (01:47:48):
A year ago, they gave up the third most points
in a season in the NFL history.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
That's nuts, that's nuts.

Speaker 6 (01:47:57):
Yeah, Now the defense has been Now you know Pittsburgh.
I wouldn't say Pittsburgh douged them last week, but Pittsburgh
is certainly able to make some plays against them. And
if people are knocking them for their three losses Tampa,
I'm sorry Tampa Bay. Early in the season, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, Okay,

(01:48:18):
I mean, listen, they were pretty competitive in all those games. Okay,
even though Tampa Bay got out big in dan Quinn's
first game and shatond in this first game, they fought
in that game. They were toe to toe with the
Ravens if you remember that game. And last week they
had a ten point lead on the Steelers. So this

(01:48:40):
isn't like a fluky seven and three is not fluky. Okay. Now, now,
of course they've got two games with the Eagles. Okay,
they haven't played they haven't played Dallas yet either, and
I know Dallas is whatever Dallas is and so on.
So yeah, here come the test and all that and
the end. And by the way, one of the big
reasons the NFC has, you know, I think they have

(01:49:04):
happ of their teams are above five hundreds because how
they've done against the AFC this year. Some of those
records are fattened up in in interconference games. But you know,
Philadelphia looks like it might be hitting itch stride. They
won five in a row. Some of it a little crazy,
the Jacksonville game, would you know, going for two all
the time and on. But five wins in a row,

(01:49:24):
and five wins in a row. I went back and
looked at this. This is how bad Washington was on
defense last year.

Speaker 3 (01:49:32):
John.

Speaker 6 (01:49:33):
They scored thirty one points in each game with the
Eagles last year and locked the boat.

Speaker 3 (01:49:37):
Wow. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good. Hey, you
mentioned the Cowboys. I wanted to just touch on him,
even though I know they're struggling. They play Monday night
football at home, they get the Houston Texans, so they
get the little rivalry thing going there again. But I
read earlier today that the Cowboys are in serious danger
of getting flexed out of some of their national television

(01:49:59):
opportunities because they're only three and six and they look
like they're going to be on the outside looking in
of any kind of a playoff chase here over the
stretch run. Now, I know that doesn't sit well with
anybody in Dallas, especially you know, Jerry Jones, the architect
of whatever America's team might be today. So could you
see a scenario where Jones decides to sort of stir

(01:50:21):
the drink the way things are going and grab the
headlines back again by making a coaching change and maybe
bringing in some guys with the initials B and B.

Speaker 6 (01:50:31):
I certainly don't rule that out. And if he doesn't,
does hire B and B? Does he bring p M
with him?

Speaker 3 (01:50:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:50:39):
Okay, yeah, that way, that way Bill can coach the
team and also do the podcast with that back.

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
Right, you can just do it right, do it right
there in the middle of the.

Speaker 6 (01:50:49):
Field, automatically improve their special teams in the punting game.

Speaker 3 (01:50:53):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, right, No, I could yes, I
could see it.

Speaker 6 (01:50:59):
I could certainly see it because I think Jerry, right now, listen,
I've said this for years. That's the only team in
the league where the coach speaks to the press, even
before or during or after the head coach spak. Yeah, okay,
there's no other team that had a pr situation like that.
And listen, there what they have now. Go back to

(01:51:25):
the playoffs last year, Todd the loss of the package.
They had won sixteen games in a round at home
up until then. They have now lost five straight games
at home and given up two hundred and one points
in those ones. Oh man, two oh one.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41):
That's forty forty points a game.

Speaker 6 (01:51:43):
Yeah, forty points a game in their own building. That's nasty,
you know, yeah, you know, they obviously and Houston, which
is kind of broken on offense right now. I think
they're going to get Nico Collins back this week. They're
obviously not going to get Stefan Diggs back the rest
of the year, and hopefully Houston this time is up

(01:52:06):
twenty three seven in the fourth quarter, yep, and said
at a half note. And Houston's kind of struggling right
now too. By the way, let's let's be on. Yeah, yeah,
I could see him doing something like that just to.

Speaker 3 (01:52:19):
Steal the spotlight.

Speaker 6 (01:52:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:52:21):
It's like, you know, hey, there's not enough tension on
the Cowboys and they're taking the national TV games away
from us because their team is no good. So I
want to be I want the spotlight back on me.
I want the spotlight back of the Cowboys. I'm gonna
make this splashy higher. I could definitely see that scenario.

Speaker 6 (01:52:35):
Well, Looten, we you know there was an everyday thing
with the contracts for Ceedee Lamb at desk Dak Prescott.
When did he wind up agreeing to them? Like on
the eve of the start of the season.

Speaker 3 (01:52:47):
Yeah this year?

Speaker 6 (01:52:48):
Yeah, okay, I mean if that wasn't stealing the spot
like nothing was.

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 6 (01:52:54):
So I unfortunately think he thinks that way sometimes. Okay,
I give credit with credits due. He's been great for
the league. He's owner of the team. They won three
Super Bowls in four years, largely because of Jimmy Johnson's
ability to draft players and so on. But you know,
he's looking like a he's looking like a more pleasant

(01:53:17):
version of Al Davis down the stretch. Does that make sense.

Speaker 3 (01:53:21):
Wow, that's the comparison.

Speaker 6 (01:53:23):
Well, I mean, listen, the Raiders, God rest his soul
and so on. I actually got a chance to meet
Al Davis years in the years ago and can't Ohia,
So I'm I'm just he was a very pleasant man. Yeah,
there were there were a lot of headlines made after
he left. And the Raiders have really I mean, the
Raiders have won a super Bowl in forty something year, right, right, right,

(01:53:44):
they won a playoff game in twenty two years Okay,
And there was there was an air I think of
like bitterness and spontaneous moves and constant coaching changes and
so on, and that was a thing He's usually known
for its stability, you know, and winning games and so on.
So you understand why I'm making why I'm making that comparison.

(01:54:07):
When when things start to get away from you and
so on, you you do things you you wouldn't have
traditionally done. And I'm wondering where Jerry's headed here and
so on, because this is this has been a disastrous season.
You know, A lot has been said about them winning
going twelve and five for years in a row. Well
they can't even do that this year.

Speaker 3 (01:54:27):
No, they can't. That's true. Hey, before I let it go,
because I want to touch on a couple of games
in the crowded AFC, the jumbled uh you know mix
here that we talked about in a second. But I'd
be remiss if I didn't get your thoughts on John
Robinson passing away this week. You know, I know that
he was certainly noted, uh you know for his time
as coach of the Rams, uh, but also in the
collegiate ranks as well. And here's a football coach that

(01:54:50):
I think that a lot of people will remember as
a perhaps nothing more than just a damn good football coach.

Speaker 6 (01:54:58):
And and from what I could surmise, a very decent man.
Yeah as well. Yeah, and uh, you know, when you
when you're able to succeed at the level he was
able to and on both college and mL and I
know they never won a Super Bowl when he was
at the Rams and saw but I mean he had

(01:55:18):
a philosophy, you know, he was just a good football
man and so on and just uh, you know, I
was I was sad hear that because he was one
of those figures of the of the of the eighties yep,
in the league and so was. And again you know
his his work at USD. I mean, you know, you

(01:55:41):
know when you it, correct me if i'm along, didn't
he didn't He followed John McKay.

Speaker 3 (01:55:49):
I believe he did. Yeah, I believe he was the
coach after John McKay. Yeah, I believe.

Speaker 6 (01:55:53):
So yeah, so go ahead and fill those footsteps.

Speaker 3 (01:55:55):
Yeah yeah, right, yeah, okay yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:55:57):
And and and unlike you know, so again great players
on both levels, highly respected man from what I've read
and heard and stuff. Him and John Madden we had
a very very good relationship. Another obviously iconic figure who
was in the poul Football Hall of Fame, John Madden,
who did everything for football.

Speaker 7 (01:56:20):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 6 (01:56:21):
It was a little disconcerting. And and unfortunately, you know,
you and I climb up the charts and I'm not
talking about billboard, you know, which. You know, we see
people who were big part of our lives growing up,
in this profession and in this game we love leave us.

Speaker 3 (01:56:41):
Yeah, and he's certainly one of them. All right. So
I've got basically here Russell a final four in the AFC.
Oh tell me, tell me I'm wrong. When you have
the Ravens playing at the Steelers and you have the
Chiefs playing at the Bills this weekend. Is that the
AFC Final four? And who are the best teams and

(01:57:02):
which teams are setting themselves up for you know, success
of the stretch run here?

Speaker 6 (01:57:06):
Well, I think at the moment it's the four teams
that are playing best in the conference. I don't even
know if you can question that. And the only other
two teams in the conference that have winning records are
the Chargers in the Texas, right, And that's not a
knock on the Chargers. These defense has done a complete
one eighth, giving up the fewest points in the league,

(01:57:28):
the Texans, the Laws three out of four. They're reeling
a little bit, but Pittsburgh's kind of had an offensive
resurgence with Russell Wilson. Baltimore, you know, different from the
Baltimore teams we've seen in the past. This time they
need all those points to win these games. They I know,
they've blew Denver out early this year, but forty one

(01:57:50):
thirty one over the Bucks, forty one thirty eight over
the Bengals, and over time thirty five thirty four over
the Bengals twenty eight to twenty five of the Cowboys,
they lost twenty seven to twenty six to the Chiefs.
So I think there's a couple, sure, you know, decent
bets out there, Decent bets that Lamar Jackson will be

(01:58:14):
the league MVP, decent bets that Derrick Henry has a
great shot at being Offensive Player of the Year, and
in an incredibly great shot that you can bet the
over with a Ravens game every week.

Speaker 3 (01:58:27):
Yeah, right, just about to bounce.

Speaker 6 (01:58:31):
I have to say something on Baltimore Pittsburgh, and I'm
going back to two thousand and eight when it was
first the first Harbaugh Comlin series. Okay, yep. Now they'd
squared off now thirty five times, including in the playoffs
three times. Okay. Twenty seven of those thirty five games

(01:58:53):
have been decided by seven points or less, and eighteen
of the twenty seven by three points.

Speaker 3 (01:58:59):
I love it. I love it. Hey, if the Bills
hold home field and beat the Chiefs, are the Bills
legitimate as a contender in the AFC to steal the
crown away from case.

Speaker 6 (01:59:14):
Well? They had Casey in their own building last year,
John and couldn't get it done.

Speaker 3 (01:59:17):
Right Yep? Okay, That's why I asked the question.

Speaker 6 (01:59:21):
I think what it would depend on, John if they
took if they beat k C and use that as
momentum to gain a winning streak, because you know, I
don't even remember who Buffalo plays next week. Okay, okay,
but or the next game. But if they beat KC

(01:59:42):
at home and then lose, that kind of goes out
the window. Okay. Now, last year, remember they were six
and six at one time in the season and won
their last five games, and then the Pittsburgh in the playoffs,
and again they hosted the Chiefs and couldn't get the
job done. In fact, I think Mahomes, since Mahomes got there,

(02:00:04):
this will be like the eighth meeting between these teams
in five seasons because they played in the playoffs and
the Bills have won at Kansas City in the regular season,
but Mahomes and Andy Reid are two and zero at Buffalo,
and I think they won every postseason game, which I
think is three of them as a matter of fact.
So I think people would get very excited, and I

(02:00:28):
think Kansas City is certain right for the taking. Yeah,
you know this nail whitter thing they've got going on,
and I listen, we see the Patriots were great at
this okay, doing just enough to win. Okay, I mean listen,
you hit the ball in the woods and hits the
tree and it rolls onto the green. It's still a one, right,

(02:00:49):
like most of my shots are, so nobody cares.

Speaker 3 (02:00:54):
Yeah, Okay, don't matter how it gets there, just get.

Speaker 6 (02:00:57):
There, Just just get there. I think it's doesn't depend
on how they perform. I know Buffalo is a little
undermanned wide receiver this week. I think Keon Puleman's out
and Marii Cooper's a little banged up. But this as
good as the Chiefs deef, I will say, as good
as Chiefs defensive, and last year I think it was better.

(02:01:17):
I don't think it's as good as it was. You know,
Tampa Bay moved the ball when they had to against
them h in that Monday night game. And Denver certainly
didn't have any problems last week until it came to
the field goal. You know, both Nick's really late. I
mean we've seen the last couple of weeks. Even though
Kansas City has won the game, Tampa Bay was able

(02:01:40):
to drive the field and tie it to spend it overtime.
Denver was able to drive it instead up a game
winning field goal right now, Kansas City survived, okay, but
that doesn't mean the defense is necessarily playing as well
as it did a year ago.

Speaker 3 (02:01:55):
Good, good stuff as usual, my friend. Thank you very
much for the time today. It's always appreciated.

Speaker 6 (02:02:01):
Oh my pleasure. And let me tell you something.

Speaker 7 (02:02:03):
This is to me.

Speaker 6 (02:02:05):
This is the first really big week of the season.
And that's not the that's the first ten because I
love them all. But when you have the three matchups
that we have on Thursday and then the two to
one Sunday, yep, all right, I listen. If I would
just I would just call grubhub.

Speaker 3 (02:02:24):
Now, yes, sir, right up my alley. Yep. It's going
to be some good foot, gonna be some good football.
Thank you, Russell, talk soon, you got it. The one
and only at Backs Football Guru on X. Bridgestone is
the official tire of the New England Patriots, Proud to
partner with Sullivan Tire, New England's headquarters for quality Bridgestone tires.

(02:02:47):
Visit Sullivantyre dot com to find a location near you,
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the way, the bills next week are off, then they
will play the forty nine Ers and the Rams. Patriots
don't get him until December the twenty second, as you

(02:03:07):
well know, so they got a ways to go before
New England will see them. A lot of stuff can
happen between now and then, as we know. Thanks to
Russell Baxter, Thanks to Evan Lazarre. Thanks to Greg Beacham
from the Associated Press covering the Los Angeles Rams for
joining us here on the program. Patriots and Rams one
o'clock kickoff again right here at Jillette Stadium on Sunday.
We will recap it and look forward again, same patch time,

(02:03:29):
same patch next Wednesday, right here in the Patriots playbook.
Thanks to the Marine. Thank you for your service one man.
Appreciate you until next time see it. Thank you for
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Speaker 11 (02:03:43):
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Speaker 3 (02:03:53):
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Speaker 1 (02:04:04):
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Francisco as they bring you in depth coverage of the team.

Speaker 4 (02:04:23):
He's a redshirt rookie at that point, so it's really
that's his rookie season essentially too, so now we're really
not talking about them, really new extreme until twenty twenty six.

Speaker 1 (02:04:32):
Search for Patriots Unfiltered anywhere you get your podcasts.