Patriots Playbook 1/8: Jerod Mayo Departure, Coaching Candidates, Offseason Outlook

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
On Patriots Playbook. Legends upon Chung of brings the Heat,
play the Storm, from Brady's toost to New Stars, Rison
the Playbook, Souper, SOMs, Horizon, and Susan played. Patriots Playbook
is your host, jong.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Book, Legends.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
And patri First, It's Patriots.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
And welcome into the Patriots Playbook. As we wrap up
the twenty twenty four regular season here in twenty twenty five,
John Rook Evan Lazar is here. He's working double duty
today after he and Barth you know, go through their
twenty two episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Right, We've been arguing like that for ten years.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I know you, I know you. I think it's great
that you can bring your arguments, you know, and share
them over everybody else. Right, So it's yeah, you might
as well make some money off the thing, right, I
kind of I kind of understand that. So what's new?
I mean, absolutely nothing, nothing new. Nothing new today over
what we talked about yesterday. Uh, there's a bunch of
different things that I think we really need to kind

(01:48):
of get into today. Uh, not the least of which
would be the fact that you know, Girodmeo, while he's
no longer the head coach why did it happen? Yeah?
How did how did we all sort of you know,
fall into this? You know that includes the Crafts too.
And I thought what mister Crafts said earlier this week
on Monday, that that, uh, it was it was warranted,

(02:12):
It was truthful, it was well done. He did what
he had to do as the person who shepherds over
the entire franchise and the organization. But you know, you
can't tell me that over the last month he didn't
see things, you know, going well, okay, well we've kind
of seen that. I think for longer. I'm really wondering

(02:33):
when this really became a possibility, when this really uh
you know, kind of came into his mindset. What was
Was there pressure from sponsors, was there pressure from fans?
Was there pressure you know internally in the locker room?
I mean, did he hear from I mean, there has
to be a little bit of something almost from almost

(02:53):
every aspect you look at it. And I'll and I'm
going to tell you, in all honesty, my thought here, Okay,
my opinion alone. We'll go ahead and we'll stand that
out right now. Yeah, put that out there, put that
out there right now. My opinion this probably germinated a
year ago when Mike Vrabel was inducted into the Hall

(03:14):
of Fame.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely possibility. And you look at
the way the situation went down. Is it possible that
this was truly a one year trial run with giroddmeo
to see if he was ready and see if he
was up for it, and if he was, great, if
he wasn't, then here we are. That's definitely a possibility.
I think one of the things that Gerrod said early

(03:35):
on and then I should know, but it was one
of the broadcasts CBS or Fox, whichever game, whichever station
the game was on one week, kind of said something
along these lines too. He kept on referencing around the
time of the combine, around the time of owners meetings,
you know, when he was made available to the media

(03:56):
during those periods that he was drinking from a fire hose,
that it was coming at him really really fast early on.
And I think when he got the job, he had
a lot of ideas, he had a lot of things
that he wanted to try to implement, and then all
of a sudden he got in the seat and things
just started moving one hundred miles an hour, and I
think at what ended up happening was that the breath

(04:18):
of the job was a lot bigger than maybe he anticipated.
And when you get into it and then you start,
things start to slip through the cracks, Right, You're not
able to focus as much on the defense, So you're
not able to focus as much on building out the
infrastructure of your program and how you want to build
the football program. And you're not able to do all

(04:40):
those things because you're you're doing your game planning, or
you're planning the week, or you're planning the offseason stuff,
or whatever the case may be. And I think what
ultimately happened is that it was a little bit too soon.
It was a little bit too big for him, and
he ended up sinking in the deep end of the
pool a little bit. And to that point, I thought

(05:02):
mister Kraft's comments that it was his own fault for
putting him in that position were a very commendable and
accountable point.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
It and I think believable. Yeah, you know, I don't
think anybody disagreed with anything he had to say. They
wanted him to sort of fall on the sword he did.
It's his franchise, it's his team. He's responsible, he's at
the head of all of this. And then I also
would guess that, you know, Gerard is an easy guy
to like, he's a personal He was that way as

(05:30):
a player. Yeah, you know, listened to him in the
locker room, and you know, he was the studious one
out on the field. I mean, he's had several of
his you know, former one time Patriots teammates call him
tomorrow the phrase Belichickian on the field because of the
way he mimicked what the coach wanted him to do
at the time. So they appreciated his style and his

(05:52):
no nonsense approach. And I think he got caught up
a little bit, and again my own observation in this
particular instance, I think he got caught up a little
bit in trying to be all things to everybody without
necessarily concident of being what this franchise in this team
really needed right now. And I also think mister Kraft

(06:14):
might have fallen into that a little bit because of
you know, he talked about, you know, the impression that
Gerrod left on him in when they took that trip
to Israel back in twenty nineteen, and how much of
an impact that had on him on getting to know
who Girod was as a person, you know, and as
a man of faith and all that kind of stuff.
And I think that's significant. I understand how that can
turn someone's opinion. But the job of head coach in

(06:37):
the National Football League is a unique job. There's just
really few other jobs like it on the planet. And
unless you want to count like I don't know, president
of the United States maybe, or leader of a of
a country, or prime minister or whatever you want to say,
because you have to go back and forth between being

(06:58):
everything that everybody wants and being nothing that anybody wants.
That makes sense, Yeah, I mean, you got to be
all things to everybody. But then again, sometimes you gotta
bang put your foot down and say, guys, this is
the way it is. I'm ultimately responsible. We're gonna ride
with it this way, you know, to get people to
see your point of view, because yes, you paid a
lot of money, but b it's on you. If it

(07:19):
doesn't work, you're ultimately gonna pay for it with your job.
And that's obviously what happened to Girod. He is was
probably always will be a player's coach, right He was
a player. He understands it, he gets it. He knows
the answers that players need to hear for them to

(07:39):
be successful. So he was trying to be that at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
You need gruff Bill, you need discipline.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, you need discipline, and we saw that throughout this
entire year more than anything else. Even more than anything else.
The one thing that overwhelmingly disappointed me in the New
England Patriots for twenty twenty four was their lack of
attention to detail, the lack of discipline. The same mistakes
made in week one and two as they were made

(08:07):
in weeks fifteen and sixteen. That's just inexcusable. So that,
you know, disparate characteristic is what really stood out to
me more than anything else. And the only way to
fix this and I opined about this in the Providence Journal.

(08:27):
You know, I do a column every Sunday in the
Province Journal, but I pined about this and just saying, look,
the only way to fix this is by just you
got to wipe the deck clean and you got to
kind of start over. Mister Kraft is a is a
billionaire for a reason because he knows how to hire people.
He knows how to fire when to fire people. He
knows how to run his businesses successfully, but I don't

(08:47):
think he's been treating the Patriots like he's been treating
any of his other businesses. And so he has to
go back and be a businessman first and find the
right people to run the business of football. And I
don't think Gerard was doing that, and I think that
in itself is the problem.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, there's a lot of things I agree with. I
just think you look at the lack of upward trajectory
from the team from the start of the season to
the end of the season, and I thought, you know,
mister Kraft mentioned that the highlight of the season was
Week one. Yeah, that was the best performance that they
had all year was the first week of the season.
So when you say that, you're supposed to be at

(09:26):
some point showing signs of turning a corner. Now. They
have also sorts of issues on this roster in terms
of talent that we're going to talk about over the
next couple months as we get into free agency in
the draft. And we all know that, but still, if
you're getting good coaching for the players that are here
and the players that were on the team, then there
should have been at least signs and flashes of improvement,

(09:48):
and the fact that those flashes never came was putting
us in a tough spot of you know, us asking
ourselves here on the shows, what is he bringing to
the table, Like, what is a Girrod Mayo characteristic that's
a positive that he's bringing to the football team, And
it was tough to find one there at the end,

(10:10):
you know, it was really tough to find one. So
we talked about this on Catch twenty two. The big
part of this hire to me is getting somebody that
can run the entire program, not just coach the team,
but you have to understand how to build out a
football program and how you're going to handle the off season,

(10:32):
and how you're gonna handle training camp and OTAs and
mini camp and preseason, and then you know game plan
and how the week is gonna go and all this
type of stuff. I think Gerard had a lot of ideas,
and I think he had difficulty putting those ideas into practice,
and that's why the team kind of came apart the
way that it did. And it felt like a lot

(10:54):
of the time that he was flying by the seat
of the pants. You know, one day would be one thing,
another day it would be something else. The last thing
I would just mentioned with Gerrod. I believe that if
he had handled his business off the field, press conferences, messaging, media,
and the team was handling business in that respect as well,

(11:14):
that he might have gotten a second year anyways, because
patience is often something that is not a big deal
in the NFL. You know, I don't feel like we
are patient enough in this league at times with coaches.
So I think that if it was just the football
on the field, they could have justified. Okay, well, we
knew this was a multi year rebuild. We know the

(11:36):
rosters really far away. We know that he wasn't going
to be able to implement all of his you know,
philosophies in one off season. In one season. Let's give
him a second year. But the run ins that he
had publicly with his messaging was a big issue, I believe.
You know, the soft comment that you said, it not me,

(11:59):
the burns some cash, you know, the walk backs that
he had to do.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, the walk backs were huge. I think we could
all see it. You know, he probably shouldn't have said that,
And it takes a little more what I would call
media savvy, Yeah, in order to be able to, you know,
avoid those pitfalls. And while Gerard is very personal and
it looks and sounds good on television very well, like
a professional should, there are some things that you only

(12:24):
learn with experience and time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
So he's a really wisdom he's a really great person.
He's a really great guy. And unfortunately, as the head
coach of a football team, you have to be a
different version of yourself in front of the camera.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
And I think he tried to be Gerrod Mayo, the
one that he is behind the scenes, the ballbuster, the jokester,
the the friend. And I think he tried to do
that with the media, and like the media tends to do,
it went the wrong way, you know. And that's if
you avoid those little slip ups and you were clean

(13:05):
throughout the entire season. In terms of that kind of stuff,
I think we might be having a different conversation.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, And I do think that for a long while
as we got into the season, that this was still
Gerrod's job. But I know, as I said earlier, I
think the germination of this whole, well, maybe Rabel if
something happens here that started when we had that. You know,
Mike Vrabel loved him when he was inducted into the
Hall of Time and granted, look, well fell for it.

(13:31):
I thought then, my own personal self, and and I
hosted the ceremony, my own personal self thought, wow, I
think that there's I mean, you know, that could happen.
I could see him replacing Bill Belichick at some point
because Bill Belichick was still the coach. Yeah, he hadn't
been fired yet. I could see that. And you know
how I knew that because he slipped at halftime. Yeah,

(13:52):
Mike Rabels slipped at halftime when he was inducted that weekend,
and he said, I'm going to cut up my time
short here on paraphrasing, I'm gonna cut my time short
here because we have a game to play.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, yeah, what yeah?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
We who's this wi? He was the head coach of
the Tennessee Titans at the moment.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah. Well, I think if you ask people down there
in Nashville, they would tell you that that was.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
That might have also had something to do with his ousekit.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think ownership down in Tennessee was
too thrilled about that.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
No, it's what I'm saying yeah, or.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
The fact that he sat in the box with the
Crafts the entire game and you know, rubbed elbows either.
But I just I look at this entire thing, this
and what you learn from it and what you see
from it. And in terms of when it happened, when
that turn happened, I still think it was in season,
But I think there were rumblings from reports. You know,

(14:43):
this isn't coming from me. You know, people were reporting
at the time that some people were starting to get
intennas up about this doesn't feel right, this doesn't look right.
And the Crafts know what it looks like, you know, Purcels,
even Pete Carroll had some success, Belichick like, they know
what it looks like when you're running a successful football team.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
And we didn't see any of that.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
We didn't see any of that. And I would say
if you had to put an actual date on it,
somewhere in October, maybe around the London trip and then
certainly what happened in London and the result of that
game against a bad Jaguars team.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
I would agree.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
I would say that that was when we started to
hear some of the things about the discipline off the field,
the soft comment and the press conference after the game
in London. The results on the field weren't good, right,
you know, I think that would be where I would
hear Mark.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, I would agree. All right. All that being said,
we're going to push forward here, but I thought it,
I thought we needed to sort of revisit that because
Gerard was a popular player here. He was a you know,
relatively popular choice when he was named to replace Bill
a year ago. There were a lot of people rooting

(15:50):
for Gerard because there are a lot of people in
the media business that worked with Girod since he spent
a short time in the media, working mostly for NBC
Sports Boston before he you know, uh jumped back into coaching,
and so a lot of people personally rooting for the guy.
You know, we're rooting for the guy. Uh. And and
I do hope that he's able to find a way
to land on his feet. I'm not sure how or

(16:11):
when that's gonna happen, but that's not for us to judge,
and that's for you know, another day.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
We want to make sure that you guys know right
off the bat that the phones are open for you.
I'd really like to hear your thoughts and opinions if
you care to share them with us on you know
who you think the next coach should be and why
you think they should be the next coach, and Evan
and I are getting ready to jump into that here

(16:36):
in just a couple of moments. TPX hotline, of course
is eight five to five PATS five hundred eight five
five PATS five hundred toll free. You can also send
me an email, podcasts at Patriots dot com or hit
me up on X at JR Broadcaster is the X
handle and different ways that you can kind of jump

(16:57):
into the show here. We'll also remind you Patriots fans
if you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those
not seen on TV, go to buy a Toyota dot com.
It's Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle
of the New England Patriots, Toyota Let's go places, and
of course, bud Light is easy to drink, easy to enjoy.
Bud Light is the official beer sponsor of the New

(17:18):
England Patriots. I want to know what you think, primarily
about who should be the next coach. We're gonna run
through the obvious candidates maybe some of the not so
obvious candidates. I think we should also revisit just a
little bit to kind of see where we are in
the overall scheme of things what Black Monday hath wrought
on the NFL. There's only six jobs open right now. Yeah,

(17:38):
and that's actually one or two maybe fewer than I
thought may be open, and so I'm wondering what that
might signal. We're gonna jump into that with Evan Karen
Grigian from Masslive dot com. She's gonna join us as well.
I mean, if you know, Karen is a longtime Patriots
columnist and beat reporter for the Boston Herald and now
Masslive dot com. She's gonna join us as well, and

(17:59):
Russell Baxter will be along give us his thoughts on
the Black Monday changes and also the playoffs coming up
starting this weekend as well. So that's how we'll rock
and roll in our final Love edition of the playbook
for this particular season. To begin with, because she's been
hanging on for a while, Justine is in North Carolina.
Let to make sure I got this work in here, Justine.

(18:19):
I want to bring Justine into the show. Hi, Justine,
you're in the playbook, Justina, U, Hi, Hey, how are you?

Speaker 5 (18:26):
I'm good?

Speaker 6 (18:28):
Good thing?

Speaker 7 (18:28):
I am a I'm not working. I've been on it
for a while. My biggest thing is, first of all,
I just want to say my heart is broken. I
love Mayo. I think that he was really smart, like

(18:52):
everyone is saying, he was quick on his feet, yeah
and and responding. You know, the only thing, the thing
I really am afraid of is that he may not
have had uh control of the offensive, coordinating decisions and

(19:15):
defensive decisions. Why I think that is because the first
week he kept saying I think that may was playing
very well, that the may was playing good, and he
you know, it was a good competition.

Speaker 5 (19:29):
All of us said, if.

Speaker 7 (19:30):
He's playing well, whose decision wasn't And I don't think
it was Males made Males. I think someone else, whether
it be Elliott or Elliott, didn't let him have control
or or the craft. That decision was not Males, Males
because made Males, because I believe if it was, he
would have been playing. And all of a sudden it

(19:55):
was like a stop to everyone that he was gonna
play Jacoby, and obviously Jacoby is uh av P's got
Ben helped, uh favorite and A and A VP is
Elliott's favorite. And I think the next person that the
next person they needs to get.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Is some.

Speaker 7 (20:20):
Player and an offensive coordinator and a defensive coordinator that
can be adjustifle that been innovative and and be able
to make a justice if needed. And a coach that
can recognize if those things are not made, like you know,
if they're if they're losing and they need to make
it a quick adjustment. Is that they need to have

(20:42):
a coach that's able to recognize that they're not being
made and be able to step up and have control.
And I just I and I'm wondering why why for
two questions, if they're not in it, if they're in
if they're so up on Brabile and Johnson, why are
they they have the interview Pat Hamilton and Byron left with?

(21:04):
And and another question is how is has anybody takes
on Drake and how is he doing?

Speaker 3 (21:12):
Okay? I think you're I think you're First of all,
I think there are a lot of people that agree
with with everything that you had to say. I also
believe that you know, as someone who's probably been a
fan as long as the team, as you have been
just into that. You probably also realize that that you know,
oftentimes when business decisions come into play, there are a

(21:36):
lot of things that don't seem right, or don't seem fair,
or might even seem cruel. Uh and uh and and
maybe that was partly the case here. But I would
tell you that anybody who has a job in the
NFL understands that they've got to put on their big
boy pants, so to speak, and that you are kind
of hired to be fired ultimately here. I mean, heck,

(21:57):
if you can hire you know, the greatest coach to
have ever coached, you know, in the National Football League
and then you know, and then let him go, Uh,
you can let anybody go. So I don't think that
you know fairness or you know what was right or
wrong concerning Gerad. Really, I don't know if that's that
that that's a factor. Clearly it wasn't, because if you

(22:18):
were going to go just on fairness, I would have
tend to agree with you. I'm not sure that this
was entirely fair, but that's not what this business is about.
So let me ask you this. Let's turn it. Let's
turn around a little bit of the people that have
been talked about should it be a fatal compleade that
this is Mike Rabel's job or would you like to

(22:38):
see one or two other people get serious consideration to
come in and kind of steer this ship. And well,
I think we can all agree upon is that this
is a critical juncture in the Patriots history.

Speaker 7 (22:52):
What do you think, Mighty Brayball, whoever has you have
to have control of the of the team offensive defensive.
At first I thought it was it was Males, thought
that he didn't take control of his offensive defense. And

(23:12):
then after finding out that that these people that the
offensive and defensive were actually Elliott's people, I had questions, Well,
how much control he had. Whoever comes in has to
have control over the people make playing, making the play

(23:33):
calling the place I think. I think the biggest problem
that the Pacers had this year was play College.

Speaker 5 (23:41):
It was just awful.

Speaker 7 (23:42):
It was not it was not on point, and it
was not sufficient. I think they need to contact more
importance right now than this outstanding experience.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
Coach. That's my opinion.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, yeah you thought, yeah, No, I think it's it's
a lot of good points in terms of control. I
think the big thing for Gerard was just his lack
of experience, and they were trying to put people in
positions that could support him, that he could kind of

(24:20):
be the CEO overseer of this football team and uh
and allow these other people that he hired and they
hired to coach there's the ball. And because he didn't
necessarily have the expertise, I'm not saying he doesn't know football.
I'm just saying, is girod Mayo fully qualified to make

(24:42):
a call on a rookie quarterback and when the rookie
quarterback is ready to play in an NFL game, probably not.
I mean, he was a linebacker, he was a position
coach on the defensive side of the ball, and he
was a you know, co defensive coordinator basically, is how
I would label it with Steve, you know, towards the
end there before he became the head coach. So he

(25:05):
openly admitted at times that he didn't know much about
offensive football and was really leaning heavily on Alex van
Pelt and Ben mcadu to make those kinds of decisions.
And I was a pro star Drake mayweek one guy,
so I'm sure I was. But in hindsight, it might
have been the one decision that they made right like

(25:27):
you know him, him getting drafted was probably the best
decision that that regime made period. But in terms of
in season decisions, not throwing Drake out there until he
was one hundred and ten percent ready and also shortening
his season so he wasn't thrown into a seventeen game
season as a rookie behind that offensive line in this

(25:48):
supporting cast, it might have been the right move. It
probably was the right move. So I can't really I
hear what Justina is saying in terms of having that
control and making sure the buck stops with the head coach,
But whoever made that decision was probably the best, you know,
the wiser for it. I think that was probably the
right move. Now, your hope is moving forward that you

(26:11):
hire a head coach that has the expertise in the
chops to make these decisions without having to worry about
you know, the coordinators making the call there.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
And so does that mean now that really, when we're
discussing candidates to move forward from this point, yeah, that
we need somebody that kind of checks off boxes. And well,
Ben Johnson and we've talked about him over the course
of this year as well. Yeah, certainly seems like to
be the hot commodity in the NFL, and he's undoubtedly
going to get more interviews ever he gets one, we

(26:43):
believe here on Friday of this week. Does it seem like, though,
that we need more than just the hot guy as
a head coach or somebody that's got to be able
to handle things is Mike Vrabel And that's why I
asked the question, is he the fat of company here?
Because of all the boxes that this team needs checked
off at this moment?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, I think that's a fair way to look at it.
And we open catchwiny two with this. Right now, they
need to build a football program, like a sustainable football
program from the front office on down. They need resources,
they need infrastructure, they need people. They need to build
out this football team, and in a way that they

(27:26):
hadn't frankly done it with Bill because Bill was this
all encompassing guy that could do sixteen jobs at once.
And I think what they realized once Bill walk out
walked out the building was just how much he was
doing and how it's impossible for one guy to do
as much as Bill was doing. So what I would

(27:47):
hope and maybe this isn't Ben Johnson. I like Ben
Johnson for other reasons. But whoever they bring in next
to be the true decision maker in the football program here,
they need to come with an audit and a plan
of this is what this team needs to get back

(28:09):
to running like a well oiled machine. It's not just
the x's and o's, it's not just the locker room,
it's not just the personnel. It's getting back to a
point where they're making the right steps to get to
the good stuff. Yea, and right now they got to
lay it brick by brick, you know, right from the
bottom up back to that point. I'll just give you

(28:31):
one example. The Patriots still are way behind on times
in terms of analytics and scouting. I'm not talking about
win probability models and fourth down decisions and in game stuff,
but in terms of implementing analytics into their scouting philosophy.
Teams that are doing that, the Chiefs, the Lions, the Eagles,

(28:55):
the Buffalo Bills. These teams have massive analytics departments. The
Patriots don't. And these are the types of things that
somebody has to come in and Buill didn't need analytics.
Ernie Adams didn't need analytics. They had it all up here, right.
They were able to just do it like that. But
not a lot of people can true.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Justina, thank you for taking the time today. I really
appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Thanks, Justina, thank you.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
You got it all right. Let's get Todd also in
North Carolina. Something about the state of North Carolina today. Hey, Todd,
what's up? Man?

Speaker 6 (29:30):
Just driving behind the semi hoping he's not gonna break
randomly again.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Well, I hope it's not Eldred and you never know.

Speaker 6 (29:38):
Now, I'm just way better than this guy. He's changeling
three times without signaling and yeah, cut two people off,
so that ain't Eldred.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
All right, be careful, brother, What do you What are
your thoughts on on on the next coach? Who should
it be? And why Brabel?

Speaker 6 (29:55):
And I don't care what Evans says. I want Brable
and I want Brabell to keep AVP because I think
he was growing into his role. Like you said, he's
you know him on a personal level, and then he's
wicked smad as you say in Boston. I think he grew.
I think he grew throughout the year and to see
what he did with both young rookie quarterbacks. Tells me

(30:16):
there's a lot there. I didn't believe you when you
said that they should unleash the beast with a VP,
but I think that's something that you know they should
look into.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
What do you say, John, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's
hard for me to DISSI agree with any of that.
I think what they need is somebody who can put
their foot down when they need to put their foot down.
I think they need somebody who can understand what a
player's needs are, like Giroft I think did pretty well.
But at the same time, I think you need somebody
who says, hey, it's my way of the highway, and

(30:46):
if you don't like it, hey drop and give me fifty.
I don't know. I don't know if they had that
with Gira, because again, as reporters, we're not privy to
a lot of that inside stuff. We only get to
see the first fifteen minutes of practice, so we don't
really know what gets said. We can only surmise us. Yeah,
and what.

Speaker 6 (31:05):
The players said to us wasn't always really in line
with what you think a coach would allow his players
to say. So my feeling on that whole matter is.
It's just, you know, he seems to play favorites.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
You know.

Speaker 6 (31:18):
Sometimes Romandre was out for fumbling, sometimes.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
He was right back in.

Speaker 6 (31:22):
It was just it was a.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Big mess, John, It was a big mess. It was
a big mess, absolutely, And I think this is ultimately
why the change is being made. Because there was a
lot of back and forth and there was some for
lack of a better phrase, heer wish you watching us.
There was you know, you know, going back on things,
backtracking if you want to call it that. There was
some of that, and you can't do that. That's the

(31:45):
one thing that Bill did so incredibly well, you know,
and why he was able to kind of you know,
we're onto Cincinnati, you know, which is going to stand
in my mind basically from now until the end of time,
because he was able to just shut all that out
and even though you knew we had to ask questions,
you also knew what his answer was going to be,
you still had to ask the question. Girod was trying

(32:06):
to do it from the other side, and I think
we determine why Bill was a lot of the way
he was because you just can't you can't blame both.

Speaker 6 (32:15):
Sides well and I think Brabil won't do that either.
I've looked back at some of his stuff when he
was with Tennessee and some of the he's a cerbic,
he's kind of rotten, but he's not going to put
up with the bs, right, He's just not no, and
he's gonna get you know, I don't expect him to
put pads on there and be you know, whacking people

(32:38):
in practice and all the other you know, hype that
he did.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
But I wouldn't be surprised at that. Yeah, I wouldn't
be surprised if he got out there and ran with
those guys.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
He's gonna put the shells on and he's.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Gonna put the shells on it. Yeah, I wouldn't be
surprised at all to see that because I still feel
like rude to me now.

Speaker 6 (32:53):
Yeah, like he's making shrewd moves. You listen to what
he's saying now, And he too has evolved, right, he
has grown from what.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
He was, and I think I don't think that that's
a bad thing.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
No, No, That's why.

Speaker 6 (33:06):
I think I would like ADP to stay here and
I think you got something there and allow him to
kind of do some mentoring. I think you grow those
guys together. I think we'd have a really good start.
I have no idea who you're gonna get as a DC.
That's my big fear. I don't know, Like I know
Brabel will have a big hand in it, but I
don't know what's available even.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Okay, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Definitely think that Alex van Pelt deserves a sit down,
deserves an interview. I know it's a weird interview for
the job you currently have, but but but when they
eventually do hire a head coach, assuming it's Verabele, it's
Ben Johnson, be it's Ben Johnson's show, and that's a
separate conversation. But if they hire Rabel, then I would
definitely have able meet with Alex van Pelt and see

(33:51):
if their philosophies could align. He did a great job
with both quarterbacks. There's no doubt about that. There's more
to coordinating an offense than just coaching quarterbacks. You know,
you got to be able to design plays. You gotta
be able to call plays. You gotta be able to
you know, make up for weaknesses on your roster and
cover up weaknesses and game plan and understand all those
different types of elements and he is a great quarterbacks coach,

(34:15):
no doubt about that. But there's more to the job
than that. So can they do better? Can they? Can
they do better in terms of those other things, because
he's not the only guy that can teach a quarterback
how to drop back pass right. He's not the only
guy that can that can rep foot work with a quarterback.
So we'll see, Yeah, we'll see. What that's the number
one question I have with Rabel, you know, just leaving

(34:37):
you with this, I think it's twofold with Rabel one.
The ceiling of his program is a question that I have.
I think they kind of what's the word, you know,
they kind of overachieved a little bit in Tennessee and
then they kind of plateaued and then it went down again.
What's his ceiling? His ceiling in Tennessee was a AFC

(34:59):
Championship Game appearance, not a win, not a Super Bowl
an appearance. So can we get over that hump? Maybe
Drake May does get you over that hump on his
own because he's better than Ryan Tannehill, that's the hope.
But that's my fear. And then obviously who's running the offense,
you know, who's coordinating. I'm not worried about the defense.
Mike will have the defense, like he'll figure that out. Offensively,

(35:21):
who's coordinating the offense, who's developing Drake may in years two, three, four, five,
And how do we go from there? You know that
that's the biggest thing. But he's a great coach. But
the problem that I have with him a little bit
is just that that side of the ball. He's not
an offensive guy. So now you're doing this whole thing
again where you're hiring a coordinator and hoping and trusting

(35:42):
that the coordinator is going to put you in the
right position.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
So all right, we're going to continue with the phone calls.
The TPX headline open and available to you. Eight five
to five, PATS five hundred. Is that toll free number.
Karen Griegan Obviously, as many of you know, she's.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Been a I'm going to say hi to Karen.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Hello, Karen, hold it? Yeah, there we go. All right,
so now you can say hi. There he goes, thank you.
I appreciate you, thank you. Yep. I've still got work
to do around here. Karen, as you know, is cover
this football team for a long time. Currently with Masslive
dot Com, a good friend of this program as well.
And Karen, we thank you for spending just a couple
of minutes with us here today. And I'd really love

(36:21):
to know what your opinion is of what we've seen
transpire over the course of the last well really now
seventy two hours. Were you surprised that the move to
make the change happened as quickly as it did in
the aftermath of the game on Sunday and what do
you think was the turning point for him?

Speaker 8 (36:41):
Well, I was surprised at the swiftness of it. I mean,
I thought that might happen on Monday, the day after.
But the swiftness of it, the fact that you know,
an announcement or Robert already you know, wrote something up

(37:06):
and we had a release and you know, tells me
that this has been in the works. It wasn't just
a last minute thing and it and I wrote immediately
after it happened that they had to have something a

(37:27):
plan in mind. I don't think that they were just
doing it haphazardly or just to be quick, right, And
I wrote that Mike Rabel had to be the object
of their affection because it just makes so much sense.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
It makes a lot of sense. And I mentioned with
Evan a little bit earlier that in all honesty, I thought,
you know, if the love affair hadn't gotten and I
used that term somewhat loosely here, but if the love
affair didn't get started beforehand, it certainly I think was
in full display for everybody to see when Mike was
inducted into the Patriots Hall of Fame. You could see

(38:02):
the mutual admiration society forming. And then, as I told Evan,
the the thing that put the light bulb on in
my head, Karen was, you know, during the halftime ceremony
when he said, hey, enough of me, we have a
game to play here. And I'm just like that could
not have set well with the Tennessee Titans, and that's

(38:24):
entirely a different issue, but it told me, I think
how Mike Vrabel feels about the Patriot and largely how
the Patriots feel about Mike Rabel, and I think that
might have been the seed that initially got planted. What
do you think?

Speaker 5 (38:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (38:39):
I agree. I was at that ceremony with Dante Scarnekia
and you know the things Bill said about him. You know,
I thought there, you know, I didn't know if I
thought something was brewing then because he was the coach

(39:01):
of Tennessee. But you could see, you could see the
genuine affection that Robert Kraft had or Rabel. I think
he sat up in the box with him, if I'm
not mistaken, and you know that halftime. You know, some
people didn't make that much of a big deal about it,

(39:24):
but you know, if you read between the lines, you know,
you at least raise your eyebrows, right, But Robert went
with Girod because it was written in the contract, and
he you know acted, you know, didn't want to go
back on his word, I guess, but as we all saw,

(39:47):
that turned out to be not the best thing for
either the team or for Girod, who had zero experience
being a head coach and looked look that much of
the year, you know, for the type of mistakes that
he made, you know, whether it was what he said

(40:12):
after games and the heat of the moment or just
in game, you know, in game coaching decisions. Did he
have a good roster to work with? No, he had
a terrible roster to work with. But I think and
listen to Robert too. On Monday, you know, they expected

(40:35):
more maybe a few more wins, but not even wins.
It was more about progress and all Robert saw was
regression and and you know, good for him that he acknowledged,
you know, making a mistake. You know, it was too
soon for Gerroid, right, so now they have to move

(40:56):
on and you know, try and get the rebuild back
on track.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
So how does his rebuild get back on track? Karen?
First of all, is Rabel the guy? I think we
know that you know, Ben Johnson is expected to get
an interview as well this week, perhaps on Friday. They
conducted to two you know, interviews ostensibly by zoom phone
whatever it was yesterday as well with the two potential candidates.

(41:28):
How many others would you think would be legitimate candidates?
Are they viable candidates or are we just kind of
going through the motion here? And of course this opens
up a whole nother can of worms, which I'm not
sure that we really have the time or they are
the wherewithal to get into. But let's just say, if
you know, are you of the opinion it's a fad
of complay that this is Mike Rabel's job.

Speaker 8 (41:50):
Yeah, as I said, I thought that the minute to
Rod was fired.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (41:55):
Yeah, and you know other factors tipping that off. You know,
Mike was out of his contract with Cleveland as a consultant. Uh,
he interviewed with the Jets, and I'm sure you know

(42:16):
Robert is thinking. Robert Kraft is thinking, well, you know,
I let him, I let him go one yeah last year.
Am I gonna let him go twice and then have
to face him twice year with the Jets? So I
just think, I mean, I like Ben Johnson, but he

(42:41):
of the you know, the Detroit's offensive coordinator. But he
poses the same issue as Girod. He's never been a
head coach. He might be an excellent head coach, but
that unknown I think will possibly keep Robert away. And

(43:05):
I think he sort of hinted as much that I
think he's looking for someone with experience or experience, and
I just think Mike checks off so many boxes for them,
you know, whether it's experience, have an approven track record.

(43:26):
I mean, he he got to the AFC Championship Game,
didn't win, didn't do particularly well the last couple of
seasons in Tennessee. But again, if you look at their roster,
you know he's never had a quarterback so I think

(43:48):
for the crafts and wanting someone who will at least
get them back to respectability and not have the type
of things repeat mistakes, both from the players and from
the coaching staff. Just having a respectable product. I think

(44:10):
Mike Rabel will provide that.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Is Mike Rabel the kind of guy though, and we've
heard this question asked already, Mike Rabel the kind of
guy that could potentially attract free agents knowing that the
Patriots have the biggest cap room in the offseason to
bring guys in. I mean, is he a kind of
guy that could add to that or take away from them?

Speaker 8 (44:31):
I don't think he'd take away from it. I think
him being a known kind of a known entity, and
the fact, you know, there's a quarterback that excites people
that I mean not just fans, but he's excited at
a lot of these NFL analyst, critics and former players

(44:54):
watching him play. So I think having the quarterback, having
having the cap space, now having a more proven coach,
and if they're going to spend the money, you know,
and I think some free agents would think twice before

(45:15):
you know it. Put it this way, they won't be
as quick to go running somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Okay, I would you know, you would hope that would
be the case, because personally, I believe, you know, if
money talks, players will walk nowadays, don't you yeah.

Speaker 6 (45:33):
Right.

Speaker 8 (45:33):
But and also if they see again something something that's
headed in the right direction. I mean it was it
was hard to know where they were headed with them
with a first year coach. That's true last year and

(45:54):
again the worst roster in the.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
NFL well, and that certainly puts the onus I think,
and we can probably agree on this puts the onus
on Elliott Wolf and Lonzo II Smith and everybody else.
It's a part of the you know, the scouting staff
to bring in those people. You know, Elliott is also
you know, already said that you know, hey, they they
missed on some of the rookies, they missed on some

(46:17):
of the free agents. The development didn't happen where they
hoped it would happen, And so he has to know
that they're behind the eight ball. He has to know that,
you know, hey, if we don't do our job, then
you know, whoever replaces Jiroddmeo, whether it's Vabele or somebody else,
they can't do their job, and so really, now it
all boils down to, all right, what kind of a

(46:38):
team is the next head coach really going to have?
And there are, believe it or not, some unrestricted free
agents on this team, and I don't think we need
to go through all of them. But I'm wondering, based
on your knowledge of what you've seen on the roster,
are there guys good enough to bring back here? Some

(46:59):
guys that are are free agent types? Are there players
that you'd like to see have another shot depending on
the coaching staff, and who might you know coach them
up and have that ability, or is this more of
a chance of Hey, while we have the opportunity, I
think we need to just get the broom out and
start over.

Speaker 8 (47:17):
Well, first off, I'm not one hundred certain that Elliott
Wolf will be making the final call on those things, okay,
because you know, let's say you hire Mike Rabel, He's
going to want He's going to want to work with
somebody he's comfortable with and comfortable making those type of

(47:42):
decisions with somebody he's confident has a good eye and
feel for personnel. And if that's not Elliott Wolf, it
shouldn't be Elliott Wolf and you know, Robert Kraft sort
of eluded. I think Robert Kraft would like to keep
Elliot Wolf on. You know, he started to modernize their

(48:07):
how they rate draft eligible players. He just revamped their
whole system and got them a little more modern. And
I think the Crafts liked the change because under the
Belichick run. During the Belichick run, their draft rankings were

(48:29):
more based on on fit. In other words, players said
fit Bill's program, his scheme, the type of player that
Bill was looking for, as opposed to other places or
most places now, whose draft boards are ranked according to
best you know, who's the best, who they consider the

(48:52):
top prospects on down, fit is not in the in
that mix, it's who are the best? And I think
you know, you'd see over time they were miss players
because of that type of system. It worked to a
degree because they'll got players you know, he could he

(49:18):
thought would fit in his defensive scheme or the offensive
scheme or vice versa or whatever. Right, but sometimes those
players just weren't good. Yeah they might have been a fit,
but they weren't good.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
That's and you.

Speaker 8 (49:31):
Might have been safer drafting the more talented receiver or whatever.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Yeah, the impression that I got is that they were
looking for value. I don't know that we're at a
stage where that this roster is at a stage where
value is of the utmost important. You need guys who
can play, period, right, no matter what they cost, they

(50:00):
got to play. And you know whether or not you
move down three or four spots and take another guy,
you just I think you just you gotta go get
who you deem the guy to be, don't you.

Speaker 8 (50:11):
Yep, well, totally agree.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Two names that I want to throw out at you, uh,
and I want to know if you're buying or selling.
These are two free agents that you know, I think
you could certainly make a case on either way, uh,
to come back and be a part of whatever team
you know the Patriots are going to have next year,
one of them being Dietrich Wise, who's been a team captain.
And the other one on the other side of the

(50:36):
ball is Austin Hooper, who we saw was a turned
out to be a pretty dependable receiver for the Patriots
this last year. Would you buy or sell on those
two free agents for next season?

Speaker 8 (50:46):
I'd buy, yeah, I mean, before I got into my
big dissertation about the draft board, right, I was gonna
say Austin Hooper. He was a good presence, a good
veteran presence. And you know in the scheme that they had.

(51:07):
I mean, let's face it, the tight Ends were the
best receivers in this whole lot. And they and they
established a rapport with Drake May, both Hunter Henry and
Austin Hooper. And going into year two, you know, if
someone has a good rapport in chemistry with Drake May,

(51:29):
you know, want to get rid of those guys. You
want to keep those guys. So I think I think
that stands strongly in favor of keeping Austin Hooper. And
the other thing is, you know, some of the veteran
voices in the room, some people who have been around

(51:51):
you know, I might even include John Jones in that
group with Wise, although I wouldn't, you know, I don't
think it's a total necessity, but I mean, he's you know,
he understands what they're looking for. He is of what,

(52:15):
you know, a playoff team looks like, and so does
Teaches Wise. So you want to you want to keep
some of those guys aboard, some some of those guys
who've been to the playoffs before or in John Jones case,
has won Super Bowls before. You know, most of most

(52:37):
of those players are no longer with the team.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
That's also true.

Speaker 8 (52:43):
It's been a while, and you know you want to
you don't want to hang on to someone you know
beyond their time. But you know, I think John Jones
can be serviceable. You know, I think you want to
get more cornerbacks, another cornerback perhaps, uh, to pair with

(53:07):
Christian Gonzalez. And you know, in terms of ditch Wise,
I mean, you know, he's been a good soldier and
and he's a company man as.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
They were as they were.

Speaker 8 (53:21):
Sure, and you know, again I'm not keeping ditch Wise
to be a starter, but again I'm cheaping him to
be a presence in the room.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
I think that's a very good call. By the way,
I want to add on Hooper. I believe he did
play for Mike Vrabel at Tennessee. Did he not?

Speaker 8 (53:42):
You know, I'd have to look that up. That might
be right.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I think you did. I think you did two or
three years ago. Now, so that being the case, that
only would I think stand up to benefit the relationship
between the two. There'll be some working knowledge there, all right,
So Karen, do you expect. Bottom line here, do you
expect any shock and surprise? And if you think that
there might be a curveball, and we'll mix sports metaphors

(54:07):
here for a moment, where do you think that curveball
comes from?

Speaker 8 (54:11):
Well, yeah, the curve column would be coming from Las Vegas.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Ah, I'm glad you said that.

Speaker 8 (54:18):
With Tom Brady pulling Mike away, yep, And I mean
it is it's it's the ultimate wild card out there
right now. And if I'm the Patriots and Mike Rabel's
your mate, and you better move the mountains to make

(54:39):
sure he doesn't leave.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
See I already I already thought that was part of
the reason why he went and interviewed with the Jets,
just to make sure that you know, hey, guys, I
can't wait forever, and to kind of light a fire
under some people around here before Gerard was let go.
And now we find out that Tom Brady, you know,
he allegedly wanted to, you know, throw the idea out

(55:03):
to Bill Belichick about maybe coming and coaching in Vegas.
But if not, if not Belichick, it stands the reason
that Mike Rabel, because of their previous relationship, would be
a superb candidate.

Speaker 8 (55:15):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. It's like, how is it
that when when going back to Bill, when Bill is
like two steps you know, it first came out with
unc and then when it got closer and closer and closer,
like none of these teams were saying, hey, Bill, right,

(55:38):
and now all of a sudden, and now all of
a sudden, it's like, oh, everyone's now inquiring cheapers. Where
were you?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Well, I would tell you that I think this is
partly due to number one, just where the NFL puts
itself in the pantheon of sports. It's all NFL, all
nothing and everybody nobody else exists, all right, so they
don't think about others. Number one. Number two, when teams
got word of what the buyout is for Bill Belichick

(56:07):
in North Carolina, I mean, come on, if he lasts
his buyout, if he lasts beyond June one, his buyout
is only a million dollars. If he goes before June one,
it's ten million. Yeah, So I mean, yeah, absolutely. I mean,

(56:27):
if you're okay, you think you got things in place,
but you've got a team here that certainly needs some
veteran leadership, why wouldn't you wait until after June one
and then bring your coach in to kick some butt.

Speaker 8 (56:40):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
I mean I doubt it happens. I doubt it happens.
And I think people are genuinely surprised that Bill went
to the College ranks. I was surprised. I bet you
were surprised. We were all surprised that he went. That
tells me that he really wants to coach, and he
wasn't sure where his opportunity was going to come about.
And he still wants to coach. Great, then go for it.
I wish him luck, But I don't know. The Raiders

(57:03):
possibility is an intriguing fly on the wall right now
and be interesting. Yeah, it'd be interesting. Yeah, how it
turns out in the next you know, a few days anyway, Karen,
thank you so much for being with us this season,
in years past and all those lines. Your knowledge is

(57:24):
greatly appreciated, I know by the listeners to this program
and to Patriots fans, to me personally. Thank you for
your willingness to share some of that knowledge with us,
and I hope to run into you again very very soon.

Speaker 8 (57:36):
Yeah, me too, Thank you, John. I always enjoy being on.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
I appreciate you. Thank you very much. Karen Greagan at
k Greagan g U R E G I A n
on X. If you're not following, you probably should. She's
been doing it for thirty three thirty five years now.
I believe Masslive dot com right now, that's where you
can find all of her stuff. And she, you know,

(58:03):
is as smart as they come, as smart as they
come when it comes to covering the NFL. Eight five
five pats, five hundred podcasts at Patriots dot Com. I'm
gonna get to a couple of emails coming up in
just a couple of moments at JR Broadcaster on X,
Russell Baxher will be along and a half an hour,
so let's spend some time together. I threw out at

(58:25):
the top of the show with Evan that you know,
there are several different things that we really need to
kind of go through here, not the least of which
is my number one question for you today is who
should be the next coach? And why? Because I think
it's important we get fans to have their peace, to

(58:46):
say their piece. You are the paying customers. You are
the people who have invested themselves your time, your money,
your effort, whatever it may be your fandom into following
the New England Patriots. The majority of you, I realize
that there are some that are watching and listening today

(59:08):
that you know wouldn't necessarily be Patriot fans, but you
might just be curious as to what's going on in
New England, or you know, just a football fan and
you want to talk some football, which is perfectly fine.
All comers are welcome here. That's the that's a big
difference here. But at the same time, I think we
all realize that, you know, there's a definitive way of
going about things, and I think the Patriots ownership and

(59:30):
senior management, I think they've understood that. I think they've
heard you throughout the course of the year, maybe also
due to the dwindling attendance inside the stadium here, and
they felt like, you know, this was not going in
the right direction that they hoped it would go with Gerard,
and so they felt like, you know, this is a business,

(59:51):
let's treat it like one, and you start at the top.
And so they've done that. So now when you're going
to replace the person at the top, who do you
replace him with? And why? That's Number one number two.
If you want to talk about you know, some of
the you know, available free agents that could be resigned
by this team, we can jump into that as well,
you know, the Brady factor, the Raiders factor. I think

(01:00:14):
that you know what Karen and I were talking about
right there at the very end, I think that also
is likely going to sort of speed this process up
a little bit. I would not be surprised in the
least bit to see a head coach announced this weekend
first part of next week would not surprise me in
the least bit. If it goes longer than that, then

(01:00:35):
it tells me that they're actually going to do further
vetting of potential candidates, which also could happen because we
don't know what's going to be said in some of
these interviews that are going to be coming up over
the next couple of days, or if it's done you know,
by this weekend or next Monday, or maybe even sooner,
who the hell knows anymore. Right then, I think we
understand that, you know, there was probably some pre thought

(01:00:58):
into making that move, uh and getting this show back
on the road here uh in Foxborough. All right, let's
back to the phones here. Eight five five Pats five
hundred Web. It is a podcast at Patriots dot Com,
on email at JR Broadcaster on x Patty and aguwam

(01:01:18):
You're up next in the playbook. Hey Patty?

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
What's up?

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
John?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
How are you Bud.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
Doing all right?

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Good?

Speaker 9 (01:01:26):
Get no complaints? Man?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
What are your thoughts? Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:01:31):
Uh, my thoughts are I think the next coach should
be Mike Brable, although I did call him catch twenty
two earlier today and said I would to be mad
with either of the top two coaching candidates on the
dock out. But for me, it's just it's It's got
nothing to do with familiarity or anything like that. It's just,

(01:01:52):
you know, Mike Frable has done it before. I mean,
you can argue whether or not he was really successful
in Tennessee, but I mean he took he took that
team team with Ryan Tannehill gave him. I mean, Dannel
had a couple of the best years of his career,
brought to an AFC Championship game. And I don't know, man,

(01:02:16):
just what what this team is really lacking for me, John,
is not only direction but discipline. You know, we saw
that how many how many times in the past few years.
Even one Belichick was here, did we see stupid pre
snap penalty?

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Yeah, well that's we mentioned that off the top of
the show today. And to me, that was the one
thing that just galled me more than anything, is that
we're seeing issues that should have been cleaned up in
training camp still rear their ugly heads as late as
the you know, week fifteen sixteen in the regular season,
and that should never happen, which tells me that there

(01:02:52):
was no accountability, no bottom line, you know. And then
of course you can go into all kinds of things.
We can really nitpick the hell out of this, and
you know, and the whole you know, Ramandrie Stevenson fumbling,
and you know, I just look, that was his style. Okay,
that's what he wanted to do. He was only doing
what he wanted. Gerrod wanted to do what he thought

(01:03:13):
was in the best interest of the team. That's fine,
that's his right if he's the head coach. Okay, it
didn't work. So when it doesn't work, can you shift?
Can you change? Can you find a way to make
a difference. Can you find a way to compromise? And
I'm not sure that we could see that that's why

(01:03:36):
he's now no longer the head coach.

Speaker 9 (01:03:39):
Yeah, and what John, question for you? When did you
when did you start to feel like the tide was
turning or like, you know, the door was kind of
closing under on Mail.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
I kind of agreed with Evan on this one, right
about the London game, Right about the London game, because
you know, we were all sort of, I think somewhat
fooled foolishly by the the win over Cincinnati. It was
a pleasant surprise. Nobody expected it, at least of all

(01:04:10):
the Bengals, because you certainly make an argument that kept
them out of the postseason this year.

Speaker 9 (01:04:14):
Right, I did call that one, John, Yes, Yes, I.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Think you did. I think you did here on this show.
As a matter of fact, I was the only one. Yeah. Well,
I'm going to give you full credit. I'm glad you
brought that up because I think that's I honestly believe
that was a huge factor in their entire season. Who
says September games don't matter in December? Okay? Because if
you say that, you are wrong. That was a huge

(01:04:39):
factor in how this season progressed. Because it also put
us all in I think, into a false sense of
security and so you could see that there was some dysfunction.
And I really that's the best way to put it.
There was some dysfunction, and you know, there was some
internal yapping, and you know, it just it wasn't it

(01:05:03):
just wasn't a what's the I'm looking for a phrase here.
It wasn't an environment conducive to success. How's that for generic? Okay?
But it's true, okay, And so you got to have
everybody on the same page. I think we started getting
guys on different pages about mid season, and I think

(01:05:25):
that's about the time that mister Kraft referenced as well
on Monday, and I think think he was right about that.
You hoped, but when you hope and you still don't see,
then you have tough decisions to make. And that's inevitably
what happened. I held out as long as I could, Patty.

(01:05:46):
I held out as long as I could, hoping that
Girod would figure this out. And I think, you know,
there comes a time where sometimes when it's not going well,
you got to define who you are. And I think
Girod kind of dug in his heels a little bit
and it's look, I'm gonna make it work this way
because I know I can. And sometimes stubbornness gets involved here.

(01:06:08):
And I'm not saying he's wrong for that. I can't
say that I wouldn't do the same thing. You can't
say you wouldn't do the same thing if you were
given that opportunity and that position. You know, you have
to do it your way. Some people don't feel like
compromise is within their purview. Okay, Hey, you hired me
to do this, I'm gonna do it this way. If

(01:06:29):
you want me to change that, we'll sit down and
we'll have a talk about it. Maybe they had those talks,
maybe they didn't. We don't know because we're not privy
to that information. You know, one thing Girod did say
was that, you know, he was in constant contact with ownership,
you know, throughout the entire season, and he was never
led to believe that there was anything wrong. And I'm

(01:06:49):
paraphrasing here, right, So, Okay, if we take him at
his word, I've got no reason not to in that regard,
then I think the I think the craft felt largely
like I did. Like we do. Hey, I really like you, Girod.
I want to see this work. I'm going to give
you as much rope as I can, but at some

(01:07:09):
point in time, if it doesn't work, we got to
tie you up and and send you out. And and
I think that's kind of what happened here, to be
quite honest with you. So I would go, yeah, middle
of the years when I started to see it slip, uh,
and again, hopeful that it would change. Ultimately it didn't obviously, Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:07:30):
And like you know, for me, like the comments after
love them and about the team being soft that like
that stuck out. But they came back and won the
next week, and I was like, all right, well maybe
they responded, you know, and then I listened Like you,
I held out as long as I could. Yeah, But
for me, it was it was after the bye when
they just came out and looked lifeless and clueless for

(01:07:51):
two out of those three games. And you know, me,
I'm old school, Like after Week sixteen, I kind of
knew what was going to happen against the Bills, you know,
but after sixteen games after because to me, that's that's
like the real season.

Speaker 8 (01:08:05):
You know.

Speaker 9 (01:08:05):
Week eighteen is just kind of garbage when we saw
that with the Week eighteen games, But sure I had
seen as much as I needed to see. I'm like, wow,
two out of these last three games, they came out
of the by and just had no fight and they
they didn't look like they wanted to be on the
field at all.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Yep.

Speaker 9 (01:08:21):
And like you know, as a team, you take on
the identity of your coach, and you know, they just
looked they looked bless and and at that moment, this
it was really the Arizona game I was. I just
started questioning myself because I was like I was fighting
people online, you know, like give them a chance. You know,

(01:08:42):
it's only year one. It's year one for everybody. But
after that, I was like, oh god, you know, maybe
it's time to go. And just you know, the Chargers
games kind of rubber stamped that for me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
True, yeah, well the Chargers game though, the Chargers game,
for sure, But I actually think that it had to
have happened before that. Now, if they had turned around,
it's tough to play what if, but they had turned
around here they had whipped the Chargers, rather than the
Chargers thoroughly decimating them.

Speaker 5 (01:09:13):
Yeah, different story it might have been.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
It might have been I mean, if there had been
forty to seven the other way.

Speaker 9 (01:09:21):
Yeah, it might have been, because I'm they look at
the performance they put against Buffalo. I mean, they ended
up blowing the game, but they were competitive. And if
they came out and kick the Chargers, but I think
that would have gotten this region very excited.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
Yeah. You know one other thing, Patty, one other thing
I'll share with you here. I understand why a lot
of people would be upset over them winning the game
against Buffalo last weekend because it cost them ultimately the
number one overall draft pick. But I knew going in
and I've said this time and time again on this show.
You know, because you've listened to this show for a
number of years, and so you understand where I'm coming from.

(01:09:58):
Players play the game, okay. Players don't think about tanking.
Coaches don't think about tanking. And let me allow for this,
if there was an inkling by anybody in that coaching
staff that this might be their swan song, and I'm
not sure there was, Okay, but if there was, there
was no way in hell they were going to lose

(01:10:19):
that game. Okay, There's just no way in hell they're
going to lose that game. So you know, look, yeah,
believe me. The one pick is way better than the
four because then you're dealing with a position or power
to vision of strength. You could, you know, deal it
for a bag of goods, other picks down a lot whatever. Sure,
you're not gonna get as much in return value for

(01:10:39):
the number four pick overall. But if you keep your
pick and whether the Patriots really need, they can get
that at four, just like they could have gotten it
at one. You know, in trading down, I don't really see.
The only thing they're missing is maybe an extra couple
of mid round picks out of this whole situation. I
think they can still get who they want. I am
a fan of two players. Evan is a fan of

(01:11:01):
two players. If we're gonna spin it even further forward,
you know, Abdull Carter, Kelvin Banks, give me one of those,
give me both, and it's a grand slam. But give
me one of those two guys. I'm a happy camper.

Speaker 9 (01:11:15):
And I'll end it there, John, because I was just
gonna ask you, like, if you know, if you could
come away with one, you know, give me give me
names of a couple of guys you'd like you would
like to.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
Walk away with.

Speaker 9 (01:11:26):
And I said to these guys on Catch twenty two
last week. I'd want to come nation of one of
these two guys, either Calvin Banks Junior and Jack Sawyer
with our second pick. Yeah yeah, we have the de
out of Ohio State.

Speaker 5 (01:11:38):
Yep, an animal.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Yeah yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you.
These are all great names. And heck, we've got what now,
four months to really consider all of them. And I'm
sure everybody will do their own due diligence on this,
and I know, you know, Evan will look at a
ton of tape and it'll be interesting to see how
this thing plays out.

Speaker 9 (01:11:57):
And the other Tombo would would the Abdul Carter and
Josh Connolly Jr. Yeah, I mean we still got the
whole like combine.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
And yeah, all that's gonna happen. My favorite time of
the year, we're watching men run around in tights.

Speaker 9 (01:12:12):
All right, John, It's good. Always good to talk to you, buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Thanks buddy.

Speaker 9 (01:12:15):
The next time I'm gonna be on that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Appreciate you unsure at this moment, so we'll you know,
we'll put it out in social media circles as soon
as we know.

Speaker 9 (01:12:23):
All right, I'll keep my eyes open, buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Thanks buddy, appreciate you, Patty and agawam. All right, let's
stay on the phones our buddy eld in North Carolina.
It's North Carolina's day to day man. How you feeling
You're a little under the weather.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
Huh, yes, sir, I'm feeling a little bit better, a
little bit stronger. How you doing today, mister Legend.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
We're good. Everything's good. I appreciate you taking the time.
I know that you'll you'll answer this one, but I mean,
it is vybel Does he have to be the guy?
And if he has to be the guy, why does
he have to be the guy?

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
I want Ben Johnson? Okay, wanted him last year.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
But uh but before we get there, I'm gonna say,
mister Kraft, I love you. Disappointed in you because you
knew this five years ago when you are decided to
make gage to pros assessor from Field and is invited
to Wall last year, and you know he's the first
time coach this and that, but you still roll with him,

(01:13:21):
and you knew up and down you said it's gonna
be up and down in beginning and all this and that,
and give him a chance. But understand it's a business too.
But you shouldn't have made that statement, and you should
have put a first term guy position like that. Johnson
the reason why I want him. I love that offense
for Detroit. And even though they're saying that he never

(01:13:44):
ran a team before, well, he's been a coordinator more
than what Rod was, been a tight end coach, offic coordinator.
Then he also ran plays. He also knows, you know,
the parts about running the team. I think he learned
from Campbell and so with his I'm like Evan, I
want the tight leg this time. You know, Grabel loved

(01:14:07):
Grabel as a player. I didn't like him that much
Aainst Tennesse, especially when he was with us that time
in the playoff with Brady. But you know he got
a floor. Yeah, but I don't think the students that
high either. You know, yes, you know how to run
a team that just did that whatever, And I think
the Jets put it on the craft. Well we lost

(01:14:31):
some one. You know, maybe we got a chance to
try to glue them the second time, and that's why
they got rid of draw besides going through what he
was saying they're gonna do the first time around. But
I want, I want jumps, and then I want him
to develop may because I don't think Rabel developed Tannehill
all that well during the years he was there. You know,

(01:14:53):
he did okay, but he you know, could have been better.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Well. You can also make the argument though Tannehill doesn't
have near the the ability that Drake may has.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
No not not it's quite but but he But remember now,
Tannehill could run back then too true, throw good off platform,
but he could he could throw, you know, but he
also had talent. And this is another thing that everybody
keep overlooking. Drodis hired the worst talent in the NFL,
and you still got it. Now if you had Grabel
last year or Ben Johnson, would you be doing the

(01:15:25):
same thing this year that you did to Mayo because
you got the same confound and I and I don't
like Wolf for that. And I don't care what everybody said,
well this his first ship. No, heck no, he's been
there five years plus one and you got the same talent.
And then he needs to be gone. Need somebody with
iron talent, talent that can draft. And I don't hear

(01:15:49):
about the packers away because I don't see nobody little
Dobbs or Watson or the other guy running around for
Green Bay right now on our team. Now that he
had chance to draft, you know, this year, he would
have got Adi Mitchell and I'm stick on holler for
that one. Get some better receivers, and you still didn't

(01:16:09):
address your left tackle or your right tackle. You get
a guy on the right side of the way. He
can play the left side. But you've been doing that
for four years. It ain't worth yet when he's gonna
stick in and what you say, mister legend, the form
of his head, keep them on the same thing twice
with the same results. Did you say that I would?

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Yeah, sure, I'll go along with that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
That's what That's what That's what he's doing. He's been
doing it last for years. Okay, yeah, so this insanity.
You know, I need somebody there with personare or experty
and they will listen, you know, and just draft somebody,
right and like that, lady said from North Conina to column.
Yeah you got I've been saying fifteen years though. You

(01:16:49):
gotta draft the guy sometimes instead of his carbon copy,
because carbon copy is just no but of carbon copy. Yeah, okay,
so that's how I feel about it. I really have
Ben Johnson, But you go with Grabel. I still with
my patriots, steph around and still say, okay, we do
we do this year and then the following year, you know, right,
But I really have Johnson if anybody else, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
I can understand your point. I get it. I get
it entirely. I think that, you know, I don't think
anybody would be upset if Ben Johnson were to get
the job. If he comes in and he blows everybody away,
should he still have his interview this week? Then I
don't think anybody would be upset over that, you know,
because I think they would look at, you know, wow, Okay,
so we got a you know, a hot, new young guy.

(01:17:32):
The only issue here is do we still have the
same issues that really were at the forefront of what
kept Gerard Mail from succeeding, And that was overall experience
and you know, potentially you know, and and potentially handling
the media. We all know handling the media in New
England and in Boston specifically is a much tougher job

(01:17:54):
than it is in other areas of the NFL. It
just is.

Speaker 4 (01:17:58):
I agree with that. But I'm looking at uh McKay McVay,
I'm list getting at in hand and I'm looking at
some other guys that came up like that first time,
and they did pretty, they did real good. They're still
doing good en now. The King was always in the running.
The King's always in the playoffs. The team's going to

(01:18:19):
the super Bowl, you know, and they were first time
coaching and looking laflur that's the one that's caped from
Green Bay, held on with Rogers for a while. Then
he got be one on with his young quarterback. And
what if they're doing now? You know, So there's a post.
There's a both sides on each each thing, because one
might might might be not experience, but he might know enough.

(01:18:43):
You know. It's surrounded by the right guy. And Elliott
Wolf ain't the right garrant guy. I'm sorry, mister Kraft.
Need to get rid of him first. Then maybe Mayo.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Well he's getting he's gonna get his chance to bounce
out of it. He's gonna have a big chance to
bounce out of it. He's gotta they have to hit.
They have to hit on free agents, they got to
hit on the draft. They got to hit on a
lot of things. So you're talking about a guy who's
coming up in a pinch hitting role and not even
a pinch hitting role. But again mixing sports metaphors as
I love to do. You got a guy who's coming

(01:19:13):
to the plate with the bases loaded and two outs
in the bottom of the ninth, it's time to get
a hit.

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
Was there only hit he got? And it was easy pick?
There was May at three, but I didn't want May.
I want to pin it. But that's different. But I'm
glad we got May. Love him because, like I said,
I got my jersey away proudly now you know, at
a boy. But sir, I would have to pick a
Little League king, and that's.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
Eldred. I love it. I absolutely love it, my friend.
You get well, all right, get well soon, Stay in touch.
You bet the one and only Eldred in North Carolina.

Speaker 6 (01:19:51):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
I got an ex post that got sent to me
from our friend Mary Beth in Syracuse, who says, hey,
I was able to see it's able to see so
much snow up here today. I'd like to see Rabel
back in Foxborough as head coach. He has had experience,
most important need to get a team around Drake May
and I'm keeping wise because of his experience and work ethic.

(01:20:14):
Mary Beth, it's good to hear from you. I also
have an email here from Aiden in California. Uh and
let me see if I can get that to work
here because it's a little just a little awkward here. Okay,
Uh yeah, here we go, John Man, I'm a bit perturbed. Okay,
read there we go on how the Crafts are doing business.

(01:20:36):
Three coaches in three years is not a good way
to do business. Did Mayo get put in the right
position to succeed?

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
But what bothers me more is if you fire Mayo
than clear house. Wolf had an interview Henry McKenna saying
that development of players was the issue with the coaching staff. Well,
if you can, John jog my memory wasn't avp Wolfe's
sky and recommended by him. I hope with the next
guy we have will bring discipline to these young players,

(01:21:05):
because that's not talked about much. Coaches, coach and players play.
Sorry for the ramp, but I'm team Ben Johnson. Don't
mind if Rabel gets it. If you want to shoot
for the moon, then shoot. And I think based on
what you're saying, Aiden, you kind of feel a little
alike Eldred in that particular instant shoot for the moon. Okay,

(01:21:29):
got that com lately. All right, let's keep on the
phones here. Jason is in Georgia. Hey Jason, you're in
the playbook.

Speaker 10 (01:21:37):
Hey, first time caller. Great for the opportunity here, Thanks Jason.
Just a couple yeah, just a couple of points I
want to make and I'll take any comments off air.
First point is is that I think between Ben Johnson
and Mike Brabel, it's kind of like all reliable, you
know what you get in compared to the hot new
thing you don't know what you're getting. But we don't

(01:22:01):
even know if Rabel's ceiling was actually even heath in
Tennessee when it really comes down to it. But aside
from that, also I like the idea of taking Brabel
just for the just for the fact that it's the
defensive mind. I think we're lacking here. Even if Drodmeyo
was a defensive a defensive guy, he doesn't have the

(01:22:24):
coaching experience. But I appreciate the opportunity, and like I said,
i'll take it off air.

Speaker 3 (01:22:28):
Thank you, Jason. I appreciate you time. I think that
you know, my major concern is that if it's a
guy like Ben Johnson, then yeah, you're gonna have an
inexperienced factor here. I think though that he would have
an advantage certainly over drawed in one aspect, if you're

(01:22:49):
one of those like me that would be concerned with
the experience factor. I don't think Elliot Wolf, I don't
think Robert Kraft, don't think Jonathan Craft. I don't think
anybody in team hierarchy here is going to allow whoever
comes in, whether it's Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel or
anybody else, any other candidate that they will talk to.

(01:23:10):
I don't think they're going to allow them to surround
themselves with people who don't have definitive experience. By that,
I would tell you, Look, Alex van Pelt, I think
did a commendable job this year. You know, and full disclosure,
I've known Alex since he was a high school quarterback.
Covered him, you know, we talked to about this early

(01:23:30):
in the year. Alex was a high school quarterback at
San Antonio Churchill when I was working in television in
San Antonio decades ago. So I've known Alex for a
long time. So there's there's a you know, a little
bit of knowledge there, and I always thought he was
a smart guy, really smart guy, as smart as a quarterback,
followed his career at pitt followed his career as a

(01:23:51):
you know, as a solid backup in the NFL after
he left Pittsburgh, and always thought that he could be
coaching material. And I think he did a good job,
a solid job coaching up all of the Patriot quarterbacks,
especially the young ones in in May. And what we saw,
of course this past weekend from Joe Milton, I don't

(01:24:12):
know that he I'm sure whoever it is will likely
at least talk to him before he leaves, because these
coaches are still in place around here right now. Nobody
else has been let go. Many of them will undoubtedly
interview not only for their current jobs, but maybe for
other jobs within the hierarchy, depending upon who is hired
as the head coach. He's a guy that I think

(01:24:33):
would you know, be great to keep around. And we
talked about this a little bit earlier on the show today.
But what does he want? It's different, what he would
want is different from what we would want. Question is
is does he, you know, can he get the kind
of job elsewhere that he wants? See for instance, right now,

(01:24:54):
I'm not sure Girod could get that. He hasn't really
had any coordinator experience per se. And I think that's
ultimately what ended up damaging Gerard on the end, is
because he came to the head coach without any real
definitive coordinator experience even elsewhere in the NFL, and I
think that was the big, you know, pitfall that he
just couldn't avoid. You know, can Alexander Pelt, you know

(01:25:17):
Ken DeMarcus coming? Can those guys can they can they
get other work that's suitable for them. It's not our worry,
but when you talk about bringing them back, they be
more willing to think about that simply because it might
be more because of the way the team ended up,
because of the team fortunes. I think that it is

(01:25:40):
entirely probable that most of these guys on the staff
will get will get interviews, uh. And I think it's
also probable that most of these people aren't going to
be here for too much longer. The scouting staff may
also be a part of that. Usually scouting staffs stay
in place through the draft, and I know whoever comes

(01:26:01):
in as the head coach is going to want to
have his own input as to who he's going to
deal with. From a player personnel or general manager perspective,
they should have that. If you're gonna put your butt
on the line and your career and your your livelihood
on the line, you're gonna want to have as much
say as you can get. Now, maybe you can begin
to understand this a little bit of why Bill Belichick

(01:26:21):
was the way he was total control because so much
is expected of you, so you got to have some
leeway in there. It's there's no real definitive answer to
the question, but you know, there's two different ways of
looking at it. One with experience that can handle this stuff,
and one without experience. Bright genius young guy, you know,

(01:26:41):
they can come in and do the you know, the
uh you know, uh Sean McVay, you know, uh, you
know type of you know, coaching job that everybody seems
to be clamoring for today in the NFL. All I
can tell you is just be careful what you wish for,
because if it doesn't happen right away, then you've kind
of you know, shot it off, and then what then

(01:27:05):
what are you left with. There's got to be a balance.
And if I'm doing any interviewing. I gotta hear desire,
I gotta hear passion. I gotta hear definitive ideas on
how to fix this roster and how to get performance
out of players. I gotta hear definitive ideas on that.

(01:27:27):
And I'm guessing ownership probably does. To Claire in the UK,
Hey Claire, how are you my friend?

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
Hey?

Speaker 8 (01:27:35):
Roki hen Marie?

Speaker 11 (01:27:37):
Hey girl, I'm good, Thank you?

Speaker 7 (01:27:39):
How are you.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
Everything's great? It's cold here, we're going to get snow
this week. I think.

Speaker 11 (01:27:47):
It's everything awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:27:48):
Oh yeah, well it's you know, it's January. What can
you say? I mean, it's you know, like, hurry up
and you know, get here, Spring, hurry up and get here, draft,
hurry up and get here. Something anything? Right?

Speaker 6 (01:28:01):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:28:01):
I like winter though, I'm crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Yeah right, believe me, I get it. I get it
all right. So who should be the next coach?

Speaker 11 (01:28:11):
And why see, if you ask me to die, I'm
saying Mike Bable Now, if you ask me tomorrow, I
might say Ben Jonson.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
Yeah, so you're kind of going back and forth.

Speaker 11 (01:28:23):
Then, right, yeah, this is it because I mean, Eldridge
said one of my points for me. Bless him.

Speaker 7 (01:28:30):
We don't always agree.

Speaker 11 (01:28:31):
But the Wolf thing, the Eli Wolf thing, I have
nothing against the guy, but my fundamental underlying concern is
a big issue is draft and that state. Are the
people that were majorly involved in that still staying the same.
He's like Elien Wolf because wasn't he like sort of

(01:28:51):
VP of scouting back in twenty to twenty three? So
does this roll onto any draft connectent? And that's the
thing that worries me. So if he's the one with
these fingers in the draft pie, I'm concerned about him staying.
But that's source of a separate entity because I know
it's you know, it's different departments and stuff. When it
comes to head coaching. Yeah, I like a lot of

(01:29:12):
people the label thing. I like the we're looking at
a guy who's got plenty of experience, he's got plenty
of stability, he's got that kind of dominant personality and
he'll keep the guys in line, and he's already liked
by people. That sort of thing like that. But there
is also that of but if you don't go down

(01:29:33):
the Johnson route, you may be missing out on something
that's new and fresh and that you need in the building.
But you aren't going to know he's some of that
unknown entity because he's never been a head coach, and
I do today as we are recording this on Wednesday,
I'll feel bitten by the inexperience that Gerared Mayo has.
And I know none of it was his fault. He

(01:29:54):
really needed to have been a DC before he was
a head coach. He really should have been pushed up
to DC sort of now, and we should have had
either still had Blacheck or had.

Speaker 7 (01:30:04):
A different head coach.

Speaker 11 (01:30:05):
He really needed that experience, and that was he was
completely evident, and that's why he's not here anymore, one
of the reasons why he's not there anymore sort of things.
So I'm swaying towards the Vrabel thing because it really
feels like a fifty to fifty, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
It feels like you.

Speaker 11 (01:30:21):
Said, the old stable sort of dependable and he was
a titan sort of kind of if so you know,
I like that.

Speaker 8 (01:30:33):
So or he played the end.

Speaker 11 (01:30:34):
Of it, so you know, I always like that. If
there's a tight ended bit somewhere, you know I'm going
to fall for it. So just there's just that element
for him. But then, but Ben Johnson's got the offense
situation and the new and the new way of doing football,
the type pants as they like deny on for you. Sure,
I can totally see it. But I think if I

(01:30:55):
got to put my chip in the jar today, you're
getting it in the rable pops.

Speaker 3 (01:31:01):
Yeah, I'm I'm kind of I kind of agree with
just about everything he said there. To be honest with you,
I mean I'm leaning. I'm leaning that direction. Uh, I don't.
I wouldn't be crushed if it were Ben Johnson. But
to me right now, I mean because I liked Gerard
and I thought there was a job that he potentially
could have grown into had he already had a better

(01:31:21):
roster with which to deal with. So we know that
that didn't happen. It may not happen right away. So
given what we now have, who is the better coach
to deal with the roster that we have?

Speaker 11 (01:31:36):
And to me, brain drain on the coaching There wasn't
only a head coaching change, was that there was a
brain drain since sort of McDaniels went and took a
load of people with them never really got properly replaced, yes,
never really got billed.

Speaker 7 (01:31:52):
So then Bill.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
Disappears, right, And I think part of that, by the way,
trying to rup but part of that is because because
of Bill they didn't he didn't hire I don't think
well after those guys left, as we all know, you know,
the whole you know, Matt Patricia Fiasco set this this
team back years years.

Speaker 11 (01:32:14):
They were missing. They're missing players, like you said, the roster,
they're missing those kinds of guys, but they're also missing
the personnel goes that, the coaching guys. It just feels
like everything is depleted and they tried to fix it
in one year with lots of very very new people.
Are you Covington being brought up to DC, you know,

(01:32:36):
Steve Belichick going Mayo being the head coach, bringing in
newbuyn Avp, who I'm glad hasn't been a scapego yet
because I think he's done really well with the quarterback.
I'm not sure if he's the play caller. I think
he's more the quarterback guy. But you know, that's another
topic as well. But it just feels like that room
was so depleted. We're blaming the roster, but the whole

(01:32:58):
building was missing a load of people just in general. Yeah,
and you've got to fill. There's still a lot to film.
It isn't only going to be the draft. It's it's
a big process to get this building, you know, fill
and stacked and backups and all that kind of thing.
They're really really depleted on people, full stuff, not just

(01:33:19):
players in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
Sure, yep, no, I think your opinion is good. When
are we going to hear you do a podcast next time?

Speaker 11 (01:33:27):
A clear perspective is it's still in the season, so
a new episode is going to be soon. They're going
to be a little bit further apart, obviously, as most
shows are now in the off season, because there is
technically a little bit less to talk about. But a
clep Effective will be back on your podcast airwaves, as
they say, or don't say, maybe just me soon and

(01:33:48):
Pat's Procrastination. Although it used to be a game recap
rap shown on YouTube through the paps waganda, we're still
doing off season so rather than game recap rap, we're
just doing like.

Speaker 5 (01:33:59):
Off season topic nice.

Speaker 7 (01:34:00):
So we'll still be back quite regularly.

Speaker 11 (01:34:02):
So you'll find me on YouTube and in as they
like to say, all the places that you find your
podcast with a CLEP Effective.

Speaker 5 (01:34:08):
I'm really sorry.

Speaker 7 (01:34:09):
I'm not going away.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
I wouldn't expect you to. Noone expected you to go anywhere.
I know where we can find you. It's always good
to hear you, and happy New Year to you my friends.

Speaker 11 (01:34:21):
Thank you, happy You're lovely to hear your voice. And
hey Marine, take care of yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Hey girl, you got it. Thank you, Claire. Appreciate you
this reminder, it's confiden it's important to have when you're
on the road. With Bridgestone tires on your car, truck, suv,
or many van, you're writing on tires you can trust.
Bridgestone tires are engineered to give you peace of mind
so you can focus on enjoying the journey. And whether

(01:34:46):
you're on your morning commute, across country road trip, or
relaxing Sunday drive, Bridgestone tires will be with you wherever
life's roads may lead. Bridgestone Solutions for your journey available
now at Sullivan Tire.

Speaker 8 (01:35:01):
Real Woman could stop you from drinking A real big woman.

Speaker 12 (01:35:06):
It's time to go around the NFL with football guru
Russell Baxter.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Now on.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Your name is Flounder on Patriots.

Speaker 3 (01:35:14):
Playbook and the one and only Flounder. I mean Russell
Baxter joint is here in the Patriots playbook. Russell, we
didn't really get. We didn't really get the kind of
Black Monday that I think we've been used to getting
over the last, you know, a few years. Anyway, I mean,
there are six jobs presently open in the NFL. But
were you curious as to how that kind of all

(01:35:36):
unfolded here without a ton of activity on Monday.

Speaker 5 (01:35:40):
Well, first things first, and I pop on here and
oh my god, I didn't realize Eldrids was going through puberty.
And then I realized it was Claire. Okay, God, you
know it's about boom, the usual dad joke. Yeah, you know,
Black Monday got an early start this year. Throughout the season,

(01:36:02):
and we keep seeing this lack of patience, which is
it's going to play into what we're going to talk
about here. I'm sure the lack of patients by owners
or general managers, whoever calling the shot with their teams.
When it comes to coaches, obviously, girod Mayo is front
and center of that one and done. Antonio Pierce can't

(01:36:23):
really call that one and done because he was one
and a half and done for Antonio Piers there's still
missed the flying because you know, if you remember, you
know the page that the Raiders wanted somebody before that,
and Mark Davis opted not to bring him this time.
He decided to stick with his gun. I'm sorry to

(01:36:45):
Rich Pasasia.

Speaker 3 (01:36:48):
Remember who took over for Gruden.

Speaker 5 (01:36:50):
Then they got into the playoffs, and then Mark Davis
went into a different direction. This time. He listened to
Max Crosby and so on, and they kept Antonio Pears
as the interim game the full time job. Still let
him go. My point is Frank Wright in Carolina just
a year ago. I think he lasted eleven games. Yeah,

(01:37:11):
and they pulled the plug on him urban Meyer a
lot of different circumstances. It's hard to compare things. Urban
Meyer didn't last his first season in the NFL. They
pulled the plug on him, and you're just I think
you're seeing it more and more as teams looked to
look for instant satisfaction. And you just get this sense

(01:37:35):
now that owners are becoming more and more proactive with
their teams. And I don't know if that's necessarily a
good thing. I know they own the team, but I
would certainly hope to think that you know, they're collaborating
with people and talking with people who are really full
time football people. I mean, though, you hear these stories

(01:37:58):
about the Jets. What's the common denominator of the Jets
not being in the playoffs in twenty ten? Well, that
would be Woody Johnson, It's not Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:38:06):
And the Dallas Cowboys missed the playoffs this year. They
haven't been to the NFC title Game, much less the
super Bowl since nineteen ninety five. And what's the common
denominator there? So the Raiders go. The Raiders go through
head coaches like I go through Fredo's. Okay, they even't
want a playoff game since two thousand and two. Yeah, okay,

(01:38:29):
you know, it's just you know, and yet the steady
organizations who have a plan, you know, the Chiefs, the Bills,
the Steelers, the Packers. It's hard to win in this leap.
We've now seen the San Francisco forty nine ers go
to the Super Bowl what twice in the five year
span and missed the playoffs after they went to the

(01:38:51):
super Bowl both times.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
Yeah, that's right. The adage that I like to use is,
no matter bad, how bad you think you got it
somebody else has always got it worse.

Speaker 5 (01:39:01):
That's that's very true. And again it's I was I
was a little disappointment in disappointed in the Mayo dismissal,
because if you get into that habit of one and
done and keep going, find it the right place. I mean,
I think the Detroit Lions got tired of that, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
Right, which is how Dan Campbell kept his job. Sure, well,
you got.

Speaker 5 (01:39:25):
Three thirteen and one and then I think he was
one in six the following year. But he set a
tone and they stuck with a plan. Okay. And not
everybody who's ad agate winning all the time. Okay, I mean,

(01:39:46):
think about this. It's been a different way to look
at it.

Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:39:50):
Bill Belichick obviously was an experienced coach when he took
over the Patriots, he was in Cleveland, took him to
the playoffs in nineteen ninety four. Everything fell apart in
nineteen ninety five. I really don't blame that on Belichick.
A lot of people hold it against him, you know,
but it's hard to coach a football team when the
football team leaves. If people understand what I'm talking about, okay,

(01:40:12):
you know, there's no football in Cleveland for three years
the Browns became the Ravens, So I think he took
a lot of being the fall guy for that. But
think about this in a weird way. Bill Belichick first
three years in New England, he missed the playoffs. Yeah, yeah, Okay,

(01:40:34):
they were five and eleven is first year. And I believe,
if I remember I did, the Patriots were either three
and oh or four oh in two thousand and two,
felled in nine and seven and missed the playoffs after
they won that first Super Bowl. So patience is a
is a pretty good thing in this business. Okay, And
like I said, I was a little disappointed. Now, did

(01:40:56):
they do this because they might be interested in a
certain linebacker, former linebacker, former surehanded tight end fill in
to fill the role. I think what happened here this
is again my own thoughts. I think Robber Kraft and
whoever else saw what happened with the Houston Texans. They

(01:41:20):
brought in a guy who was a defensive mind. They
brought in a guy who was a former standout player
with the organization, and I think they thought they could
duplicate what the Texans did in turning their franchise around
and it didn't happen, and they decide to do one
and done, and again I think it's very disappointing, and

(01:41:40):
hopefully girod Mayo winds up, maybe he goes to another team,
becomes defensive coordinator, maybe hone his skills even a little more.
But I was a little shocked that that came down
and so fast on Sunday too.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I hope that Drod
gets the chance because I think he deserves that chance
to sort of rehab not only his reputation, but also,
you know, to to learn a little bit more to
get another shot of this, because I think, you know,
under the right circumstances, he certainly can be a good
head coach in the NFL. But you know, I would say,
unlike the Houston situation that you just alluded to, I

(01:42:17):
would certainly question, you know, you know, or at least
wonder how overall you know, what the overall strength of
that roster was, and the Patriots what they did in
setting up the roster here for Gerard, they did it.
Clearly it paled in comparison, I think to even ultimately
what Houston had at the time.

Speaker 5 (01:42:37):
Well, there's no question about that. That's to me, that's
a little bit of a different subject. The one thing
you noticed, and it's happened the two years that Demiko
Ryans has been there, they have had no problem bringing
in free agents. No, but it's almost people like want
to play for Demiico Ryans. Okay. We saw that the

(01:43:01):
very first his very first year, because at one time
they were signing a bunch of free agents and they
were just signing names for lack of a big word,
and then some big name started to come. You think
about a division champion john this year, who was able
to add Joe Mixon, able to trade for I'm sorry,

(01:43:22):
able to h I'm sorry Joe Mixon and Stefan Digsley.
They've got in trades okay, and got them contending teams,
all right. They lost a couple of linebackers. They got
Dan Gill Hunter for their pass rush, you know. And listen,
Johnathan Greener and had a great year for the Texans.

(01:43:43):
He's going for the Vikings, he's going to the Pro Bowl.
But they had no problem adding to a very young
and talented roster. You're one hundred and twenty percent correct.
New England's roster pales in comparison to what the Texans have.
So that's a big of a part of a problem
and something they needed to take a closer look at

(01:44:06):
as well. Listen, I know Bill Belichick got bashed for
a lot of his drafts, especially in the latter years
and so on, but at the same time he had
some you know, it's interesting I was thinking about that
this ester was listening to Claire, and I'd be curious
to get your thoughts on this. You know, Bill Belichick
throughout most of his tenure, for lack of a better word,

(01:44:28):
and some of it had to do with money, he
knew when to move on from a player. It didn't
seem like that was the case the last couple of
years he was there.

Speaker 3 (01:44:40):
Well, the exception of Tom Brady.

Speaker 5 (01:44:42):
What the exception of Tom Brady who moved on by himself.

Speaker 3 (01:44:46):
Well, but he also moved on because I think it
was it was well known that Bill wanted to move on,
and and and and so that that's.

Speaker 5 (01:44:55):
Why Jimmy Garoppolo wound up in San Francisco, and that
and that actually he felt like at the time that
it was time for Tom to move on. That's why,
you know, Richard Seymour was in the Hall of Fame,
and Dion Branch who was Super Bowl MVP again someone
that had to do with them mask him for my
Lawyer malloy and he was ever going to forget the

(01:45:16):
Lawyer mlloy game. Okay, So, but it didn't seem like
that in the latter years. Like I said, Brady, obviously,
uh the exception. But you know, and and that's why
I kind of questioned and whether Robert Kraft has more
of a hand in the roster and personnel than maybe
some people perceive.

Speaker 3 (01:45:37):
Yeah, I'd say that's entirely possible, and we'll be discussed
I think in fairly short order when the candidates start
rolling in here, all right, before we lose track of it.
We do have obviously the postseason coming around, some of
the Patriots are striving to get back to and you
know of the games that are involved, well, we have
Kansas City and Detroit with the buys and the respective leagues.

(01:46:00):
So let me ask it to you this way. Number
one of the two teams that have the buys, which
is most likely in your opinion, to not reach the championship.
And I'm not about the conference championship, not necessarily the
Super Bowl most likely do not reach the conference championship.
I'll start with that one. What do you think.

Speaker 4 (01:46:22):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:46:23):
Obviously Kansas City has all the experience, but I want
to tell you some of it. When Detroit, as battered
as they were, came back on that Monday night forty
nine ers. I know the Niners aren't what you are, okay,
but they could have very easily let that game go

(01:46:44):
and still beat the Vikings for the NFC Nord Championship. Yep,
and the number. So it wasn't a meaningless game for them,
and I think that's the impressive thing about the lines.
I don't like picking either one of these teams. I mean,
you don't win fifteen games in this league very often. No,
you don't, although I will point out I want to say,

(01:47:07):
the last four or five teams to win fifteen games
in the season, none of them won the Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (01:47:13):
Yeah, I think that's a concern. I think that's definitely
a concern. I think that's a factor too, because sometimes
they kind of going on their laurels, and I'm of
the opinion that the buy sometimes isn't the best thing
to have. I think we've certainly seen that in the
college football playoffs this year? Have we not?

Speaker 5 (01:47:27):
There's no question about it, and we have coaches and organizations,
for lack of a better word, butchered the bye. Okay, personally,
think you go back to twenty nineteen with the Ravens
when Jamaar Jackson, Lamar Jackson has his first MVP year.
I thought they did not handle the buye whatsoever. They

(01:47:49):
rested players another week and then Derrick Henry goes in
there and rolls them in Baltimore. Okay, I think Bill
Polian and the Colts a couple of times let that
get away two thousand and five when they when they
won their first thirteen games, when they arrested, they almost
rested people and were for about a month, and then

(01:48:10):
Pittsburgh went in there in the divisional round and up
to set them and so on. So it's there's a
fine line between rest and rust that is not original,
I know, And it'll be interesting to see just how
this goes now. Obviously, Kansas City's a little more experienced.
It's a tenth straight trip to the playoffs, okay, which
is one sort of New England's record. Okay, the Lions

(01:48:33):
are in the The Lions are in the playhoffs and
back to back years I think since you had to
go back to the nineties, okay, and they're having an
absolutely franchise year with wins and back to back division
titles for the first time ever. And you know, they've
never won thirteen games in season much like much less fifteenth.

(01:48:54):
So they did not have the buye last year. They
had to play right away, okay, and so it'll be
interesting to see how Dan Campbell handles this. But these
days in the NFL, everybody has a buye. And I
know this might sound like a little goofy thing, but

(01:49:15):
the Lions are kind of used to playing a couple
of different buys because they play on Thanksgiving every year,
which is an extra week and a half. And obviously
they've been some Thursday night games this season as well.
I will say that that division this year was incredible, Okay.
The Minnesota is going to the playoffs as a fourteen
win wild card, which is unprecedented. Okay. The fact that

(01:49:39):
the Lions went six and zero in the division should
tell you a lot about the caliber competition they've played
this season.

Speaker 3 (01:49:46):
No question, no question.

Speaker 5 (01:49:47):
So has the Chiefs to answer your question, Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
And I was just gonna say I was kind of
leaning that way myself, to be honest with you, all right.
And then the other question I have for you today,
and again, of all the other first round games, you
got the Chargers and Texans, you got Pittsburgh and Baltimore,
you got Denver at Buffalo in the NFC, Green Bay
at Philly, Washington, Tampa Minnesota at the Rams. A real

(01:50:10):
dark horse. And I'm gonna give you a dark horse
that probably nobody is thinking of, but just something tells
me about the makeup of that team. I think that
game could be even though they lost to this team
previously this year. I kind of like the Redskins, and
as an old time cowboy fan, that kills me to
say that.

Speaker 5 (01:50:29):
Well, I could see that the one thing we have
seen out of Tampa is a lot of firepower from
Baker Mayfield. But they struggled with the Saints last week,
and they struggled defensively at times, and when they went
on that mid season four game losing street teams had
no problem moving the football against them. Let's keep something
in mind. They won the division but got swept by

(01:50:51):
the Falcons. Okay, now, the one thing in their favor
is they have played a lot of teams that are
in the playoffs this year. I mean, obviously not in
their own division. But they played Baltimore earlier in the year.
They played Washington, they played Philadelphia, they played the dry
they beat the Lighter w I have two teams to

(01:51:11):
beat the Lions, okay, But defensively, I get that I
had a different ones. I'm keeping an eye on the
Los Angeles Chargers, and I say that because of their
physicality and the fact that here's one for you, John.
Last time the Chargers gave up the fewest points in

(01:51:35):
any league was nineteen sixty one when they were in
the AFL. A.

Speaker 3 (01:51:40):
I love that. Now that's a Russell Baxter stat right there.

Speaker 5 (01:51:44):
Well, I was watching them all year because if you
remember last season how bad they were on defense. Yeah,
but you know, listen, this is the here's one thing
that's still be in my column coming up and so on,
and this is hope for teams. By the way, I'll
just give you some hope. Okay. Do you have any
teams lost their first two games this year and made

(01:52:06):
the playoffs? Nine teams lost their first two games this year.
How many do they think are in the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (01:52:13):
I love losing the first two. You know what, I
don't know. I'd have to go back to it and
look at but I would say I'd say at least
three three.

Speaker 5 (01:52:22):
That's exactly right. The Ravens, the Broncos, and the Rams
were all oh in two.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Zero and two, and they all into the postseason right now.

Speaker 5 (01:52:29):
I love it because we started the seventeen game of
seventeen playoff format in each conference in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:52:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:52:39):
Okay, so this is the fifth year of that. The
previous four years combined two and oho and two two
oh and two teams made the playoffs this year three alone.

Speaker 3 (01:52:48):
Wow. So in the previous four years only two oh
and two teams.

Speaker 5 (01:52:52):
Made it, the Bengals in twenty two and the Texans
in twenty three.

Speaker 3 (01:52:56):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:52:56):
For the plus, here's something that really caught my eye.
Washington won eight more games than they did a year ago.

Speaker 3 (01:53:06):
Great turnaround.

Speaker 5 (01:53:06):
Yeah, it has won six more games, yeah than they
did a year ago. The Vikings won seven more games
than they did a year ago. Some big, big jumps now,
just so you know, none of them are near the
NFL record, which was set twice. The Colts won from
three to thirteen to thirteen and three from ninety eight
to ninety nine, and the Dolphins went from one in

(01:53:29):
fifteen to a leven in five from two thousand and
seven to two thousand and eight, so, in other words,
a ten games play.

Speaker 3 (01:53:35):
Ten game play. Well, Russell, my friend, it's been great
having you with us this season. It's been great having
you a part of this program for now completing twenty
four years of this show as long as you have,
and I look forward to visiting with you as I'm
sure I'm a lot of fans look forward to hearing
from you with your insight and your historical perspective on

(01:53:56):
the NFL each and every time we get a chance
to do this. But from the bottom of my heart,
my friend, thank you very much for spending time with
us this season. Happy New Year to you.

Speaker 5 (01:54:06):
Well, Happy New Year to you. It's something I really
look forward to every week. I love the format of
what we're able to do. We stray off course, which
may be my favorite thing, but it's you, embody what
I think sports talk should be.

Speaker 3 (01:54:22):
I appreciate you.

Speaker 5 (01:54:23):
It's a conversation. It's not someone yelling in your face
and telling you you're wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:54:30):
That thank you. You're wrong, You're wrong, I know all right.
Enjoy the playoffs, my man. I'm sure we will talk soon.

Speaker 5 (01:54:41):
I'm sure we will too.

Speaker 3 (01:54:42):
Thank you, buddy, the one and only at Backs football Guru.
On X, I've got about two minutes left of the program,
I want to say hello to Trey in Memphis. Hi, Trey, Trey,
are you there? He might have given up on us
because I kept him on hold. Trey, I saw you.

(01:55:03):
I acknowledge you. I love your brother. Thank you. Appreciate
your picking up the phone and giving us a call.
Let me finalize things by saying, if you want to
mix things up in the new year, Bob's Discount Furniture
has tons of endlessly customizable modular styles like the brand
new Posh Sectional featuring a sleek, elevated design signature, Bibble

(01:55:23):
Pedic Memory, Foam Comfort, super Plush, upholsterry and count them,
fourteen accent pillows included. Miss Robin would love that. Now
that's versatile, So stop in and stock up for the
new year at Bob's Discount Furniture, the official furniture store
of the New England Patriots, and of course, bud Light
is easy to drink, easy to enjoy. Bud Light is
the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots. Thanks

(01:55:45):
to Evan, Thanks to Karen Gregian, you know, thanks to
Russell Baxter most of all for this season. Thanks to
Matt the Marine for producing and helping me put this
thing together so we can bring this information, this talk
format to you here in the Patriots Playbook. It's a
little different from what you know some of the other
shows do here on Patriots dot Com Radio. I acknowledge

(01:56:07):
that it's worked for a long time. Hopefully it to
work again at some point in time in the future.
But thank you for taking your time to spend a
little time with us, whether or not you tune in
on the live version or you're listening watching back in
on the podcast version. I appreciate it. I appreciate it
a lot. We'll find out what the next move is
for the New England Patriots coming up in very short order,

(01:56:28):
all right, and then I'm sure we'll all be talking
about it one way or the other until next time.
So long, everybody.

Speaker 12 (01:56:36):
Thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, Google Play,
and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, please rate
and review us. Listener comments and ratings help keep us
high on the podcast rankings, so new listeners can find us.
Be sure to check patriots dot com for more news
and more podcasts.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Patriots Playbook 1/8: Jerod Mayo Departure, Coaching Candidates, Offseason Outlook

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

Patriots Playbook 1/8: Jerod Mayo Departure, Coaching Candidates, Offseason Outlook

Crime Junkie