Tune-in as Claudia, Deuce, Evan and Paul share their immediate reactions to the Patriots preseason finale. They go around the horn in 'The good, the Bad and the Injured' to assess who played well, who and who underperformed. Plus, they consider this Tuesday's cutdown day and who made the best cases to make the 53-man roster and who may have fallen short.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode Patriots Postgame Show is presenting by Draft Kings.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is the Patriots Postgame Show presented by Draft Kings, Bush.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Dot Dive to the Zone Touchdown Patriot.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Joined the conversation by calling into the show at eight
five to five PATS five hundred or email us at
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Speaker 4 (00:23):
Hand off to Stevenson Hole across Cuts L forty five
at steam Rolls the Defender.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
There live from our studio, inside you at Stadium. This
is the Patriots Postgame Show presented by Draft Kings.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
Yes, it is, guys, exciting final game with the preseason.
We've got Evan, We've got Deuce, We've got Paul, I'm Claudia.
Forty ten final, the home team, one undefeated season down
the drad Giants. They'll put up thirty plus and all
three of their preseason games as we knew, starters.
Speaker 6 (00:56):
Were in out there. Uh for the Patriots.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Some defensive guys though, and on the line we were surprised,
which we'll get into all that, the good, the bad,
the injured. I guess Paul just first reaction though to
that forty two to ten final.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
Yeah, they just didn't have the same kind of energy
I think that we saw in the first two games,
especially the first one, the Giants had a lot of
that buzz on their sideline all night. I know the
crew made a you know, a big deal of that,
but it.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
Was, it was apparent. It was.
Speaker 7 (01:23):
It was pretty evident when you were watching, and we
knew that they weren't going to have a lot of
frontline guys.
Speaker 8 (01:28):
But I still was a little disappointed.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
Individually, you know, I was looking for something from Ben Wooldridge.
I don't think he played as well as he had
in the previous two games. And then some guys that
we talked about a lot in the pregame. I'm sure
we're going to get into it. Some individuals like Javon
Baker would be one, you know. I think Jordan Polk
was another one that you guys, So, you know, is
(01:53):
this the end of the world. Of course not, but
you know, some disappointing individual results.
Speaker 9 (01:58):
In my opinion, yeah, I'd agree you kind of have
to dig deep to find the meaningful good and bad
performances rather than no piling on a guy who might
not even be on the team in a couple of days.
Speaker 8 (02:07):
So yeah, it was, uh, it was. It was a
little disappointing just to see it.
Speaker 9 (02:12):
But at the end again, like I feel like you're
checking a box here and you're trying to get out
of their healthy and.
Speaker 7 (02:16):
Certainly Mike Vabel and Josh McDaniels I think, yeah, had
that mindset in the second half.
Speaker 8 (02:20):
I think they ran the ball knowing we end it off,
just get out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
I have a tough time taking too many big takeaways
from a game like this. It felt like outside of
a few guys Kyle Duger, Kean White, a couple of
the offensive lineman Jared Wilson, Ben Brown, Real Pepper is
randomly playing a little bit in the first quarter after
not getting a lot of practice reps over the last week.
But besides those guys, I don't know how many players,
(02:46):
and I say this with all due respector are going
to be here after four pm on Tuesday. So I
have a tough time really putting anything there. But I
would agree with Paul mikey was effort and finished. And
I'm not trying to say that, no, it didn't show effort,
but the energy definitely was not there the same way
that you saw in the first two preseason games. But again,
(03:08):
how many of the guys that played tonight are really
going to be on this roster in four days?
Speaker 10 (03:13):
I can't really say.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I mean, there's a lot of bad, which I know
we'll get to, but shall we start with the good?
I think we can find some good in there. I
know Kyle Dugger was the name that we talked about
a lot in the pre show, and we're going to
talk about him a lot here. Six sackles, second most interception,
two pass deflections. I think he started off a little shaky,
but then he seemed to get comfortable out there.
Speaker 9 (03:35):
Yeah, yeah, I thought, you know, anytime he's playing out there,
it's the balance between all, right, well is he doing
enough against the players that he's playing against, and you know,
had that interception thrown to him, But otherwise I thought
he showed up pretty well. And it's just such a
hard player to really consider getting rid of. I just
it's quite a stretch. I think he'd really have to
fall down the depth chart. Is there never a situation
(03:55):
this year where you know what, Jubo Peppers gets hurt
or Jalen Hawkins or you know, he's clearly got some talent.
So I think Kyle Dugas's done enough to stick around.
I just don't know how much of a role he's
going to have right out of the game.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
He was out there for a while.
Speaker 8 (04:07):
Was that he.
Speaker 7 (04:09):
Played a lot, There's no question about it, and I'm
not necessarily I'm with Evan. I'm not taking away anything
necessarily from the individual performance. But I would say a
guy with his stature to have to play that much
and this game would have easily gone through the motions,
and I don't think he did.
Speaker 8 (04:27):
I give him credit.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
He's on my good list tonight for just the effort
that he showed in the game. He can't be happy
with the situation that's going on. I don't know what
the answer is. I don't know why he's fallen so
far out of favor. This can't be just about a
scheme fit. There's got to be something more to this.
But they have their reasons. I'm with Mike. If he's
(04:51):
not one of your best fifty three players, I'm not
sure I know what I'm looking at.
Speaker 8 (04:55):
And I would make an argument that.
Speaker 7 (04:58):
I can't put him in lower than second on the
depth chart at safety, and I think that you could
make an argument he's one, but they obviously don't see
it that way. Whether it's because of the contract or
something else, but I thought just the fact that he
kept playing tonight in a situation whese, I think some
veterans would have shut it down.
Speaker 8 (05:18):
I think that's commendable.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yeah, he was the best player on the field for
the Patriots tonight, I would say, And I just thought
that if you're looking for him to be in the
right places and coverage, and if it's a scheme thing
and it's a system thing and grasping the defense, he
was in the right place all night long. I thought
that he was on his p's and q's. Even though
the interception was an overthrow that was kind of gifted
(05:40):
to him. He's playing up top as the post safety
in man to man and he's right there with the
vertical route and over the top coverage there. So I
just thought, looking at some of the replays, even that
he's just playing deep safety and he's there. He's on
the spot for a handful of times. I thought he
was physical near the line of scrimmage, but also as
(06:02):
a deep defender enforcing back there when they're guys catching
the ball in front of him, he's laying the wood
and putting guys into the ground, So I don't know
what else he could have done.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
So, you know, the deep safety, because I think that's
what we're talking about a little bit when we say
scheme change, right, this is a little bit out of
his comfort zone, right.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Well, I would say deep safety in general is not
as strong suit of his. The more space he plays in,
the further away from the ball he is, his game
tends to slip a little bit. But what I see
from him with the deep safety stuff is that they're
playing a lot more quarters or split safety looks where
he has just different assignments, like his eyes are going
to be in different places, and he's king, you know,
(06:44):
the different routes from the inside receivers. If this guy
runs vertical, I carry, If he doesn't, I pass off
like that type of stuff. And I think there was
some things early on that maybe he wasn't fully on
board with in terms of the mental stuff. But tonight
I thought he was in all the right places, and
he played a lot of cover three, post safety, cover
three and man post safety today and I just thought
(07:07):
that he did the job at a pretty high level.
I know he's out there against backups, but your point
Paul like how he's definitely one of their best fifty
three players. And then he played his butt off tonight too,
So I just don't really know what else he could
look for for him.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
All right, So good we can say officially the only.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
One he's list, Mike, I'll give you a burnout.
Speaker 9 (07:28):
Jeremiah Webro quick with a nice punt return and a
touchdown catch.
Speaker 8 (07:34):
Yeah, he had a solid two minute drill him in.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Giles combined for four catches forty five yards on that
final drive of the first half.
Speaker 9 (07:40):
So I me two of your guys, Yeah, they did
only you know, complete ten passes.
Speaker 8 (07:43):
So we're looking a little bit grasping and straws here, But.
Speaker 9 (07:47):
Cherry becketting for a kid. You know, we weren't really
talking too much about him going in. We were spending
most of our time on Giles and Baker, and you know,
had a nice little night.
Speaker 8 (07:55):
Maybe it's enough to earn him a practice squad spot,
some kind of developmental spot. They've got a lot of
injuries right now.
Speaker 11 (07:59):
Why.
Speaker 8 (08:00):
I don't know if Jevon Baker's done enough.
Speaker 9 (08:02):
But you know, kid shows up last game, maybe maybe
warrants a second look.
Speaker 8 (08:06):
Yeah, I had I had web on my good list
as well.
Speaker 6 (08:10):
I mean, does it concern you guys though?
Speaker 5 (08:12):
One pass and I know it was not the starters
out there, but one pass completed four yards with just
under five to go in the second and we we
didn't see a ton of passing in the first two games.
I know, at least for the first game for sure.
That was a big issue. Travion was their best pass
catcher deep into the second and this was an issue
they had historically bad last year as well.
Speaker 8 (08:34):
Are you trying to take us right into the bats,
because I think I'm ready to go.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
I think we.
Speaker 10 (08:41):
Larger conversation though that it'd like to go on to.
Speaker 8 (08:44):
That it's a passing game in general.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, yeah, And also just like backup quarterback, I just
Josh dobbson play tonight. But I don't think that Josh
Dobbs has shown very well in the preseason either. And
it had a really rough joint practice with Minnesota. Kind
of bounced back on the second day in minnesot to
be fair to him, but I thought the first day
even Vrabel came out and said, like, can't make some
of those throws. So I just look at backup quarterback
(09:09):
in general, and I tend to say, like, if Drake
May gets hurt and they're on their backup quarterback, the
season is kind of in jeopardy anyways. It's not like
you're really most teams aren't planning on winning very many
games with their backup quarterback, but it's a spot.
Speaker 10 (09:24):
I was kind of hoping that.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Woolridge would would show us something tonight and take that
by storm. I don't think he really did with his
performance outside of that one two minute drive to in
the first half.
Speaker 10 (09:35):
So I think it's a combination if wherever.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
You want to go with it, guys, like passing offense
or just backup quarterback, looking specifically at tonight.
Speaker 8 (09:44):
Yeah, so just.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
Real quick, you know, I tried to be as generous
as I could with my good list. I mean, I
thought they had some pass rush early in the game.
I thought they made Jackson Dart move around a little bit. Now,
unfortunately when he moved around, he made some plays when
he did it. But I thought farm in Keon White
a little bit, you know, just flashed a little a
(10:05):
little bit of pressure. And I also thought Marte Mapu
was was it was kind of active, you know, a
really nice pass break up knocking a ball loose on
an early play. Not a whole lot else to hold
it you had on that, and at least.
Speaker 8 (10:21):
Not the players that the count.
Speaker 7 (10:23):
You know, I'm just going off who played tonight, but
I didn't even even.
Speaker 8 (10:27):
With who played tonight.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
There were you know, I think Jeremiah Webb was probably
the one guy who stood out that Mike you mentioned him.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
One thing we all sort of hit on was just
finishing this preseason clean and luckily you know, injuries, but
it I mean, there was penalties, There was loose plays.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
That was the big thing that Verbel vocalized.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Coming out of that first half, and it was an issue.
Is there something that you could really pinpoint deuce when
you looked at that, or just overall sort of slop.
Speaker 9 (10:54):
Well, I think you know, we've watched, we watched some
bad offensive football here the last couple of years, and
now you're seeing it with a third string quarterback and
a third string line and like really the last four
receivers standing right now.
Speaker 8 (11:06):
So how much were we expecting of Ben Wooldridge.
Speaker 9 (11:08):
I think, you know, like Kevin said, he's had some good,
some good this summer, but clearly they were putting their
backups out.
Speaker 8 (11:14):
They were kind of ready to pack things up, I think.
Speaker 7 (11:16):
Except that, you know, the first the bulk of the
first half, they had two guys that might be starting,
and Ben Brown and Jared Wilson, you know, as part
of that line.
Speaker 8 (11:27):
Now, I agree with Mike.
Speaker 7 (11:30):
We've seen some bad offensive football in recent years, and
we saw some of that tonight. We had I think
Marcus Bryant lined up in the backfield on a play.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
You know, that kind of just highly preventable mistakes. Those
those self.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
Inflicted penalties that we really haven't seen much of during
the summer, some of those came tonight. I think they
had an off side lining up in the neutral zone
in the first half, so way too many penalties. Certainly,
the defense tonight was just not good. But I'm not
going to get lost in that. Like Evan said, you know,
they've been playing a lot of quarter coverage during the
(12:04):
course of the preseason and things like that.
Speaker 8 (12:06):
That's kind of basic looks that.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
Yeah, I think they'll I think they'll you know, spin
the dial a little bit more than that in the
regular season.
Speaker 8 (12:15):
So I don't want to fixate on that.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
But one of the things that I talked about in
the pregame, I wanted to see the kicking situation. I'm
a little disappointed they didn't go back and forth tonight.
It was really just Borregalis and he had a chance
from forty nine and pushed it wide right, So.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
I mean, in my view, I think Romo has been
the better guy. It's gonna be interesting to see who
ends up.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
Winning that battle.
Speaker 9 (12:37):
Yeah, it seemed a little like they were giving Borgalis
a chance tonight to go out there and own it.
See how he bounced back from that miss. He did
make the extra point. But yeah, it's gonna be really
interesting to seek to see what they do with those guys,
because on one hand, you feel like you can always
kind of find a kicker. But you know, Romo's been
here for a while, so I don't really, you know,
want to just toss him aside. He's probably won the battle.
(12:57):
And it's really hard to say this is our draft pick.
He hasn't been great, but we're just gonna ride with him,
like you got to pick the best guy, and it's
hard to say that it's been Borga.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
My guess is one of those guys will the loser,
will end up on the practice squad, you know, more
than likely.
Speaker 8 (13:12):
I mean, assuming that they can get through waivers.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
But are you assuming that's Borgolis at this point?
Speaker 7 (13:20):
I just don't know. It comes down to do they
want to cut the draft pick?
Speaker 8 (13:24):
Yeah, and I do.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
I know that that sounds you know, well, why won't
you just pick the best guy? Because sometimes teams are
funny like that. They want to make sure they err
on the side of protecting the guy they picked, not
the guy that they inherited.
Speaker 8 (13:37):
So we'll see.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
And to be fair, like you would think that borgollis
Is ceiling is probably higher than Parker Roma's. Parker Roma's
bouncing around the league a little bit. They obviously saw
something in Borgalos to draft him, so you would probably
like to think that he has a higher ceiling. So
maybe you live with some of the growing pains as
a rookie early on, so that he maybe reached that
(14:00):
ceiling later on. But I kind of think Parker Roma's
outkicked them. Yeah, I mean it's not by much, but
it's betty close. But I agree slightly better.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
Yeah, I would give the slight edge to Romo a
bit more consistent. Yeah, uh, you know, I would. I
would fire one up on the bats here, and it's
I don't mean.
Speaker 9 (14:16):
It to be a bad as much as I just
called it the depth, because I think tonight what you
saw was mostly leftovers from previous regimes or guys who
you know aren't quite their guys yet. And the hope
is is you get this program up and running and
you get to your two and three, that you have
a lot of these solid depth guys that were looking
at these guys I remember the past where you're saying,
(14:37):
man's that's a kid I like, I want him to
make it. You know, there aren't a lot of those
guys out there tonight. And I'm not really faulting the
coaches or anybody, just other than this is year one
of a program and you see on the third preseason
game that they don't really have a lot of the
competitive depth that they're really gonna need to build a
program and have the depth to overcome all the injuries
that are inevitably gonna happen during the season.
Speaker 7 (14:59):
Yeah, and this is what you saw the other teams
that the Patriots played the first two weeks. This is
what they played with personnel wise, was their twos and
threes and fours and the Patriots largely played with that tonight.
And you see that, you know you're competitively at a
disadvantage when you do that.
Speaker 8 (15:14):
I agree.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
And one of those guys that I'll point out specifically
is Cold Strange. You know, got a previous regime guy.
I don't think he looks comfortable at center at all.
I think that the snaps have been an issue with him.
I think there was at least one wild one tonight
that Wildridge had a sort of corral. I had a
holding call on first and goal from inside the two.
That's a killer penalty that you know, that's that's just
(15:36):
a killer penalty that's taking points off the board.
Speaker 8 (15:38):
They ended up having to settle for a field goal.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
It looked like he got beat with some some speed
on the inside on a couple of occasions tonight. So
there's a guy who's been around. Now you know, what's
is his fourth year.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
Now you know.
Speaker 8 (15:55):
It's it's time you remember that one.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
That's my question, how long do you keep him around?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
So I'm just gonna lump all of them together on
the bads City, So Cold Strange, Kiden Wallace, all three
of them, I thought struggled tonight, just multiple pressures, penalties,
snaps like Paul mentioned, run stuffs right in their gaps.
I just I was hoping as a group, and I
don't want to single any one of them out because
(16:21):
I don't think that's necessarily fair, but as a group,
I was hoping that they would get one playable offensive
lineman out of all these guys that they've drafted over
the last couple of years on the interior to come
out of the draft for the last three four years,
with Strange in the first round, Sow in the fourth round,
(16:42):
Lane and Robinson in the fourth round, Cadaan Wallace in
the third round, Jake Andrews who's no longer here, who
is somebody brought up to us with that Paula, you
know in someplace else now. They have not been able
to hit on any of these guys. And it's multiple
coaching staffs, it's multiple line coaches, and they have not
been able to develop any of those guys. So when
(17:03):
you start talking about what Deuce is talking about depth
like that's supposed to be the depth Like it's not
necessarily means that those guys need to start, but that
those are the guys that are supposed to be the
top backups and they just haven't been able to hit
on any of those drafts.
Speaker 7 (17:17):
So that like the bigger picture, you know, take away
on a game like tonight, you know, you start to
think about your roster. Obviously on Tuesday you're going to
be down to fifty three, and you know, the three
of us are talking and you know, trying to figure
out how many linemen you take, and you're like, what
could they take ten?
Speaker 8 (17:34):
And then you know Evan's like, she can they get
by with eight?
Speaker 7 (17:37):
Because I don't know if you're thinking to yourself, like
do you really have nine or ten guys that are
worth rostering right now? Again, these are decisions that are
made well above our pay gratees. But I think that
the point is valid. I think some of those guys
that you would have hoped would have at least emerged
as quality insurance, quality backup depth haven't.
Speaker 8 (18:00):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
Robinson Wallace and I began it with's strange, I don't
really think that you feel great about any of them?
Speaker 9 (18:08):
Yeah, I mean I'd carry that right over to the
edge position after Landry and Chase on. It's kind of similar,
like you have key on White is he the great fit.
Is he going to really do what you need him
to do? You don't really know. All of those guys
still remain question marks. So again, I think this is
still part of just these aren't there guys. You know,
when we were back with a regime that had been
(18:28):
here forever. That it is there, guys, and sometimes it's good,
sometimes it's bad. But at least you know that everybody's
been brought in to play in that system and fits
supposedly what they want to do.
Speaker 8 (18:37):
So I think they can get to that point eventually.
Speaker 9 (18:39):
But it's just be a really interesting day on Tuesday
to see, you know, maybe someone like cold Strange. All right,
we're going to close the book on that, that that
whole thing. You know, some of those pieces that are
still hanging around, you don't know quite know how they fit.
We'll see who their stories might come to an end
on Tuesday, though.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
I do want to touch on Jordan Polk. We'll head
to Break and then I see your calls coming in, we.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
See the emails. We will get to those.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
But Polk was a guy that you guys talked about,
had a few penalties there, Evan, would you see from him?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, I thought we were hoping that he was gonna
kind of make a roster tonight or make the push fine,
you know, finalize a push here. Two penalties, both holds
in coverage playing out of the slot.
Speaker 10 (19:17):
Outside of that, I don't.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Think he was very noticeable in a bad way, but
probably not the performance that you know, we were hoping
to see out of him if he was really going
to make a serious case to make the roster. So
for him, though, I would say, you know, it's also
a numbers game like that. That's a deep position at
corner on this team. It's one of the positions that
(19:40):
they do have some solid depth at. So you're four
or five guys deep before you get to Jaalen pull
Jordan Polk excuse me, And I don't know, do they
have to carry six of all six of those guys.
Speaker 10 (19:52):
Probably not. He's probably a practice squad guy.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
But yeah, I would throw up and down, I would
throw cool be minor in that same kind of a
bag tonight a couple of times. You only you only
hurt him once, but I thought he got beat deep
at least three times where where Jalen Hyatt ran by
him and Jalen Hyatt's a guy that's trying to make
a roster. You know, he's certainly not an established NFL player,
(20:19):
so that's that should be a good matchup. Now, he
certainly has more experience than Minor, but he ran right
by him three times.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Jalen Hyatt ran by everybody to
know that's.
Speaker 8 (20:29):
What he does.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Now, he didn't catch him.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
And I do I do fully submit that that's what
Jalen Hyatt does.
Speaker 8 (20:37):
He's a speed He's a straight line speed guy, but
he is there tape. You're trying to make a roster.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
Now, I will say that Minor I thought, bounced back
a little bit and made some plays, also showed some physicality. Again,
this is gonna be one of those things. Do you
want to keep your draft picks? R You know you, Mike,
you made a big deal and I think you're right
about the the old regime guys as opposed to you
a guys.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
Yeah, I think that factors in. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Five passing touchdowns allowed, though I know it's not the
starters A little concerning out gained four thirty one to
one nine.
Speaker 8 (21:09):
Yeah, I'm just gonna plug my ears on that one
and be like, hey, I'll.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
See we want right one got there right, you know.
Speaker 9 (21:15):
Choking aside, Like I mean, we're talking about the quarterback
and you see Tommy DeVito come in and look great.
Speaker 8 (21:19):
I mean he's like their.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
He came in, his first pass was a touchdown.
Speaker 8 (21:23):
I mean, he's Tommy DeVito, gonna get cut? Can we
grab him? I wouldn't be opposed to that.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Well, that's sort of why Italian I started talking about
the backup quarterback position, because like their Giants had two
or three guys that looked better than any of the
Patriots backup quarterbacks. And I say that like seriously. And
so it's just some of these teams, even like Cleveland
has four quarterbacks, they're not going to carry four quarterbacks
most likely. So you just never know if one of
(21:49):
these teams drops a quarterback. Even if you sign a
guy to the practice squad that maybe just to get
a couple of looks at him and on scout team
over the next couple of weeks and see what he's.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Got any more good, bad, injured before we go to break.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
No, I think I'm good.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
I don't think any He seems to be like a
punching bag all the time. But Javon Baker again had
some opportunities. You know, he's playing in a game that
you know, probably he didn't want to be playing in
because you would think as a second year guy he'd
be established. But he needed to play in it and
really didn't make any place.
Speaker 8 (22:26):
You know.
Speaker 7 (22:26):
I think Evan pointed out a miss block on a
on a crack toss. Right, is that that play correct?
Speaker 8 (22:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Run run TfL h O P I blocking down field? Yes,
And he has now caught one of nine passes over
the last two games in the preseason.
Speaker 10 (22:44):
Now, his quarterbacks haven't done him any face now, I
want to.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
Well, he missed his first six targets.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
Yeah, the one he didn't catch tonight was by no
means on him.
Speaker 8 (22:53):
It was a horrendous throw by Wooldridge.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
But again, the numbers numbers, I mean, we're giving Kyle
Williams some slack. What's saying that numbers lie for him
because he's been open and they just haven't gotten it
to him. But I mean one catch in nine targets
that that's tough.
Speaker 9 (23:10):
I think there was one training camp practice where in
like seven on seven he caught like three straight touchdowns
something like that, And I went into in Levens and
had a couple more grabs and like that was the
Javon Baker's coming on moment. And from there there haven't
really been contributions on offense. There's been like some special
team stuff that we highlight as on special teams, but
(23:31):
that's not what's gonna make Javon Baker special. Javon Baker
needs to be a receiver who goes and makes athletic
plays and gets open quick and those things that we've
been hoping for to see from him. His talents, they
haven't really shown through in this new offense this summer.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
So I'm not really sure what's going to happen with
him on Tuesday.
Speaker 9 (23:49):
But it's hard to really bang the desk for him.
He had really one good day in camp.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I feel like, yeah, I mean maybe on special teams,
Like maybe that's how he makes the team. I know
there's been a lot to do about him pushing for
more opportunities on special teams and making plays on special teams.
So if you're going to be a six receiver on
the roster, I guess that's the path. But Deuce has
nailed it as in terms of his production as a receiver.
It just just it hasn't been there.
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Speaker 2 (27:52):
We want to hear from you, so call the hotline
at eighty five to five PATS five hundred or email
the show at podcasts at patreon dot com. Now back
to the Patriots postgame Show presented by DraftKings.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
We're back and it's time to take your calls. Sean
and Vancouver, you've been weighing.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
What do you think of the game?
Speaker 13 (28:15):
Hey, I have a few questions. So one thing I
want to know is about the players that weren't there.
I know, I guess in Chisholm and Williams car Wlliams
were injured. Now were they not there because of the
injury or just because they decided they were already set? Also,
I'm very concerned about the depth that on the line,
(28:37):
both offensive and defensive line scrimmage doesn't seem like a
lot of players step forward tonight or for that. And
the last thing I wanted to say, Nathan, if you're
still listening, Polk the receiver was put on a season
long IR, so he's not part of the fifty three decisions.
Speaker 16 (28:57):
So there you go.
Speaker 13 (28:58):
I'll take it off there.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
Thanks, thanks, Sean.
Speaker 9 (29:02):
Well. I don't think Polk has been officially moved to no,
but we also talked about that at length in the
pregame show.
Speaker 10 (29:10):
What was the first two names that he said?
Speaker 7 (29:13):
So, yes, the guys that didn't play, Yeah, Chisholm and
Williams were hurt.
Speaker 8 (29:19):
That's why they didn't play.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
I don't know was he hasn't practiced that that's why
some of these guys that didn't dress were hurt.
Speaker 8 (29:27):
Yeah, we didn't see Williams at all. Not sure.
Speaker 9 (29:30):
I mean, there were pictures of Chisholm traveling, so we
know he was on the trip. I don't think he's
anything major. But we haven't seen or heard from Williams yet,
so hard to tell. Sean, I don't know exactly. You know,
I think all those guys are that weren't practicing and hurt.
They that's probably why.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
But those guys, you know, most of the guys that
didn't play, it wasn't because like that that are dealing
with injuries. It's not like they're set like they're dealing
with injuries. Why are you going to play a guy
who's hurt? You know, when the preseason. That doesn't like
it wouldn't make much sense to me to have Kyle
(30:05):
Williams and Efton Chisholm on the field tonight.
Speaker 8 (30:08):
If they're not being able to practice during That's.
Speaker 9 (30:10):
Just what make Baker notable, because Baker had misspractice and
seemed like he maybe you know, knew that he needed
to shoot up to show something tonight.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I wonder that Anthony Jennings, I know he had the injury,
but Deuce has been harping about the edge depth and
I don't know what's going on with Keon White in
this coach of staff's mind. You know, he played twenty
nine snaps in this game against Giants' backups, and it
didn't really look like I didn't really think he was
super noticeable, Like he didn't dominate the game by.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Any means, had a play here or there that I
noticed him some penetration, But I agree with you if
I didn't notice some stand out.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
So just with Anthony Jennings, if you're moving on from
an Anthony Jennings again, because of one of these scheme
fit types of things, there goes another player that can
at least play in this league. And we can see that, right,
And so if you're still not sure about where Keon
White fits, are you really releasing or trading Anthony Jennings
(31:06):
and just taking away another layer of Deuce's depth.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
There a lot of these, you know, and I'm just
lumping a lot of players. I know, I know they're
not all the same position, but like you know the
Truman Jones and.
Speaker 8 (31:20):
You know what's Swinson Ponder.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
Elijah Ponder is another one for linebacker Monty Right, Like
a lot of these guys we're hearing, you know, this
guy has a good shot to be on the rush.
This guy's like what if it which one of those
guys is better than Anthony Jennings? And you guys know,
(31:46):
like I've sat here and I've been on the other
side of this telling you, like, I don't see a
ton from Anthony Jennings, but what I do see is
a physical edge setting run stopping kind of an outside linebacker.
Speaker 8 (31:58):
There's some value in that.
Speaker 7 (32:00):
Yeah, what are these guys giving you that that he can't.
Speaker 10 (32:04):
They got that?
Speaker 9 (32:05):
I know, I just I don't know, Yeah, no, I heard,
I think you.
Speaker 7 (32:09):
A whole point was like in the first segment about
the previous regimes, guys yeah, and that's why you wonder
if I don't think that's a way that you should
be knowing you hang on to some of those guys,
but if injuries strike, then you might be forced out
of your comfort zone in terms of your scheme or
whatever that might be. I'll throw another name in there
just that would be interesting to have in this conversation
(32:29):
is Jelani to Vai. Another one of those holdover guys
who kind of fit that old defense maybe a little
bit better, but I still think he has some size
and athleticism to play off the ball that gives him
a little bit of a unique flavor with the group
that they currently have. I wonder if him and Spulaine,
if that's a duo that they would put out there together,
or if they really do have designs on Splaine Ellis
(32:51):
we want two smaller mobile linebackers back there.
Speaker 8 (32:54):
But what's gonna happen for Julini to va.
Speaker 9 (32:56):
I mean, he he's out there like two days for
the summer and then had his cat injury.
Speaker 8 (33:00):
We haven't seen him again. I mean we've seen him
watching I think you saw him in the background a
couple of times.
Speaker 9 (33:05):
But you know, it's all those guys that could definitely
play before, but you know a lot of them have
bad years.
Speaker 8 (33:10):
Last year we're injured, last year's ye're.
Speaker 9 (33:13):
Somewhat down on them, and you don't know exactly what
they are anymore.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
Like what is Kyle Dugger?
Speaker 9 (33:17):
Is he the player that we thought he was going
to be back in twenty one twenty two when he
was first coming on and we felt like he was
on the ep swing or is he this player that
got hurt and has kind of been on the downswing
right now? Same thing, you know, across the board for
those former Belichick players.
Speaker 8 (33:30):
So we'll see what they have in mind.
Speaker 9 (33:32):
It's it's fascinating because on one hand, you could there's
a case people out there could say, well, they don't
really look like they want Kyle Dugger. They don't look
like they really want Keom White. They don't look like
they really you know, need Afredy Jennings in. But at
the same time, like we said, like all those guys
we know can kind of play, They got to figure
it out.
Speaker 7 (33:47):
And I'm fine with it if you if you feel
like you can get value in it elsewhere. In other words,
you can deal these guys, you know, even for modest picks,
but to just cut them, to me, doesn't make a
lot with nothing. And I know Keon White's not White's
gonna be on the team. The other two is we're
talking about, you know, Douggar and Jennings. I would not
(34:09):
be in favor of cutting either one of those guys
if you don't think that they fit. Either find a
way for them to fit, or find a way to
get something for him. I don't think I think they're
too valuable to just cut.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Do you think after tonight, because we talked about Dougar
being one of the goods and I know this was
a game people are saying didn't really matter, would performance
like that be enough for them actually to consider keeping
them or it's more so just the whole pres I.
Speaker 8 (34:35):
Would see this though.
Speaker 9 (34:35):
I don't know if it's necessarily this performance, but it's
the fact that he continues to get the experience and
he plays well, and he's hung with it, and he's
shown some strides.
Speaker 8 (34:44):
It wasn't that he came in and crushed it in
this game and our worries are solid.
Speaker 9 (34:47):
It's just maybe you're seeing signs of growth and that
he's understanding what they want to do. And the pulse
point I think is a big one too. It's not pouting,
you know, not everybody's talking about it.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
Everybody knows.
Speaker 9 (34:58):
Anybody who watches the games as well aware that that
he's not the same stature that he once was in
this defense. So yeah, I think he's got a spot,
but he's I don't know if he's gonna be you know,
part of it right out of the gate, like he
might need to continue to work at it before he
actually breaks into a role on defense.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
I just think there's a difference between these guys aren't
long term fits here because of scheme and all that
kind of stuff, and moving on from them. This offse
this summer because I think I don't think they're prepared
to move on from these guys yet.
Speaker 10 (35:30):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
They haven't had enough time under Mike We're able to
build up the depth of the roster to walk away
from NFL players like they just they haven't like Kyle Duggart,
you know, Anthony Jennings, like these guys are NFL players
that yeah, they might you know, you mentioned to Vai
like though they might not fit in this exact defense
and maybe at some point when they draft their edge
(35:52):
guys and their safeties and their linebackers. They can wipe
the slate clean of all those Belichick picks. But right now,
I don't know how you can walk away from those
types of players. I think it's premature to walk away
from players that can play in this league and have
started games in this league and have played at starter level.
(36:13):
So yeah, if Tavia ends up having to play a
linebacker or Jennings has to ends up having to play
at edge rusher, you might need to tweak some things
that you're doing to make it more palpable for them
to be good players. But to just walk away from
those guys and we're gonna, well, you're gonna throw Elijah
Ponder or Truman Jones or one of those players out there,
(36:33):
because uh, you don't.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
Watching that right. And I'm not saying they're gonna do that.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
I think we were not, But I'm not gonna kills
as my boy Felger likes to say, I'm not gonna
kill him for something they haven't done yet.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
But that's what it seems like. We're headache.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
This is a next offseason and beyond kind of problem.
Like eventually there might be a time where they have
the safety depth that they look at Kyle Dugger and
say he's not our type of player for whatever reasons
that they have.
Speaker 10 (36:59):
I just don't know if you can do that right.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
Now, to wait and say.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
Until Tuesday.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
All right, Ted in San Diego? What's going on?
Speaker 17 (37:11):
Oh? Hey everyone? Just an observation I wanted to make
based upon tonight's game, but also the previous two games.
And that's actually I wanted to recognize Alexandra for actually
voicing this opinion earlier tonight, and she's the first person
I've actually heard make this point about the Patriots' offense.
(37:33):
Is that this has been a very heavy run oriented,
five yard pass offense all pre season. And I don't
know how anybody can actually look at any of the
wide receivers. Now we're going to leave out the slot
guys include specifically Chisholm, but whether it's Williams, A Baker
(37:53):
or Pop or anybody else, they have wide, they don't
go downfield, and if they do, maybe it's one's a game.
So I don't really know how anybody can look at
this offense. Their offensive lineman, can they really blow a
pass block when they're gonna throw the ball downfield. I
don't think we know that based upon these preseason games
because we haven't seen it. And I observed even after
(38:16):
the first game, said to my brother, why are they
running so much in the preseason? Can't we see what
these guys can actually block? Can't we see if these
receivers can actually get opened downfield? And I, honestly i've
seen all three games. I haven't obviously, I'm living out here,
so I don't see the practices. But I have no
idea how you can look at these three games and
(38:38):
be able to really gauge how good any of these
players are. I'm not saying that they're necessarily bad, but
this is d way it Josh runs his offense. And
again it's the preseason. You're not going to show the
whole offense. I totally get it, and you don't want
to get either too high or too low again preseason,
But wouldn't you like to see a little bit of
(38:59):
more of the offen going downfield and letting these lineman
block a little bit? That's my observation. But I would
just want to recognize Alexander because I listen to you
guys all the time, and I really haven't heard anybody
make specific point. Maybe you guys have, I just haven't
heard it. But thanks to keeping guys have a great show,
and I'll listened to your comments. Off the year.
Speaker 9 (39:19):
Bank credits to Claudia.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
We do love Alex.
Speaker 8 (39:25):
She's all right.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I'm gonna channel Paul here for a second and just say, like,
whether they do it in the preseason games or not
does not matter to me one bit.
Speaker 10 (39:35):
Like we see it at practice.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Like I'm not telling you that this is going to be,
you know, the seven Patriots and they're going to be
bombs away come Week one. But I think we see
a lot more of what the caller is talking about
in terms of getting a gauge for their downfield passing offense,
the offensive line and pass protection and for better or worse,
And we're gonna say Felger's name.
Speaker 10 (39:57):
Again on the show.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
I guess Felger has been this anti preseason rant about
how bad the product is for better or worse. The
practices that dous and I saw in Minnesota, the commander's
joint practice, like those are the real takeaway type things
from this time of year, at this point in the
NFL calendar.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
And he thought pass protection looks good and not good.
But so that's what I'm saying though, Like I know.
Speaker 10 (40:21):
There was more exposure to it, like there is, we saw.
Speaker 5 (40:24):
More of it, right, But my concern is if you know,
we haven't seen Digs out there really in a game
time scenario, we're gonna throw him out there. He's supposed
to be pseudo number one.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
I guess the.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Pass blocking hasn't really shown us that it could be
great yet. We know we can run block, we know
we can run the ball.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
Okay, great, But.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
To his point, I mean, that's all we're doing, and
we won the first two games doing it. I guess
my point is it is a concern for me because
nobody's really standing out. Like we've talked about Pop Douglas
a bunch of times, but he's not giving us explosive
plays Like I'm a little concerned about the.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
Past, absolutely concern. I'm just not taking it because of
the preseason.
Speaker 11 (41:04):
Ye.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Now to the caller, like I'm not trying to look
down on the collar at all, but he's not watching
practice every day, so.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Let's actually tell them what you saw in practice.
Speaker 7 (41:14):
I would like to see them take I mean I
thought they took some shots downfield in the first game.
Speaker 8 (41:19):
They certainly didn't.
Speaker 7 (41:20):
Really take any tonight at all with Wooldridge, and I
didn't see the Minnesota one, but they they tried to
get Mac Collins downfield a couple of times, I thought
in the first game, and it looked like there were
some times where they were trying to run plays that
were longer developing. And he didn't look like Drake when
Drake was in the game I'm talking about. I don't
really I don't care as much when the other guys
(41:43):
are in, but it didn't look like Drake saw anything downfield.
Now maybe he's missing guys, but I mean, he did
take some shots in the first game, like I thought,
the Giants and I took a handful of shots downfield.
Speaker 8 (41:55):
I do like that in the.
Speaker 7 (41:56):
Preseasons, you know, see if you can stretch the field
a little bit and see how the protection holds up.
But two things that the caller mentioned in Evan kind
of mentioned. One, you're not necessarily going to show everything
that you have. And I do hope I talked about
this on the pregame show on the Sports Hub before
we started. I do have some hope that Josh McDaniels
(42:19):
has sort of evolved and adjusted a little bit to
just the preponderance of short passing game and the running game.
You know, let's see if we can work it downfield
a little bit. But Evan's right about the up and
down nature of the protection in practice, you know as well,
and in the difference between practices and games is you're
(42:42):
not going to get hit in practice the quarterback.
Speaker 8 (42:44):
The quarterback can get hit in a game.
Speaker 7 (42:46):
So maybe that's why they haven't been as willing to
do it now.
Speaker 9 (42:50):
I think it was a good it's a good call
out because I felt and granted I was just glancing
over at the offense on the first day of the vikings,
but it seemed to.
Speaker 10 (42:57):
Me like that was the theme.
Speaker 8 (42:59):
They were like, we're pushing the ball.
Speaker 9 (43:00):
Down the field today because we really haven't done it
at all, and it seemed like, you know, I mean,
I don't know if you agree with that, like, but
I kept looking over and was like, Wow, we've been
complaining for a week about how they can't throw the
ball down the field, and now it's like every time
I look over the field, they're they're you know, but
they were taking their taking.
Speaker 7 (43:15):
The I think Drake was really good. I think Drake
has had way more good practices than bad. But what
I don't know about is the consistent nature of the
past the pass protection.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I understand what everyone's saying, Josh isn't changing the offense.
Speaker 8 (43:32):
I don't think he is, like I'm going to hold
until I see it.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
I'm going to hold him saying it like I know
for I don't know for a fact.
Speaker 6 (43:39):
The pass rush isn't gonna be easy week one.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
I guess I'm just telling you what I'm seeing, and
especially from the drop back passing game, it's the same
offense like that. It's the same stuff, And I think
the bigger concern that I have with it, it's not
necessarily the lack of downfield passing. A lot of Josh's
offense is reading coverage versus progression reads. So the quarterback
(44:03):
is looking and the receivers too, is it man?
Speaker 10 (44:06):
Is its zone? Is it two high?
Speaker 4 (44:07):
Is at one high? And they're reading coverages and that's
where the ball is going, Whereas last year with Alex
van Pelt and some other offenses, they're progression reads where
it's literally is one open, one's not open, onto two
is two open two's not open onto three, and it's
a little bit more simplified in that respect. So last
year he's reading progressions all year long. This year he's
(44:29):
coming in and I'm talking about Drake, and now he's
reading coverage and it's just a different way to process
defenses as a quarterback. So some of the things that
I think you're seeing with Drake may holding the football,
like the clips at Orlovsky was talking about and things
like that, are him still trying to figure out how
to process within this offense. So eventually, I think that
(44:52):
that's going to come along and they're going to get
him where he needs to be. I don't know if
that's going to happen right out of the gate. We'll see,
but I I don't. I don't have like the problems
I guess with the offense itself that some other people do,
because when it's I think the offense is a good offense.
But I do think that there's maybe a learning curve
(45:13):
going on in certain respects.
Speaker 6 (45:16):
Okay, see what William in Philadelphia has to say.
Speaker 8 (45:19):
That's will and.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Hey there, hello, I'm good.
Speaker 7 (45:32):
Game recognizes Wow.
Speaker 8 (45:37):
Okay, I just want it's late.
Speaker 17 (45:41):
I know you're new to the show and when not.
Speaker 13 (45:43):
But I just want to about splot the gentlemen that
you're around, that they're a really good guys and they're
gonna look out for you.
Speaker 6 (45:50):
Oh yeah, they're a good crew, thank you.
Speaker 17 (45:53):
All right? So, oh my god, when I begin with
this seat.
Speaker 13 (46:00):
Well, it would be good right about now. Who idea
was it not to get Joe Toney?
Speaker 17 (46:05):
That would be pretty good right about.
Speaker 13 (46:06):
Man, the office line just worked me a little bit.
Speaker 15 (46:10):
You know.
Speaker 18 (46:10):
And and Jalen Poet, I think he's another step closer
to being another.
Speaker 13 (46:16):
To kill Harry, all right. It's just it's just seems
some of the stay patterns stuff over and over and
that's all. That's all I got for y'all.
Speaker 17 (46:26):
And he does it.
Speaker 8 (46:33):
He knew what he knew.
Speaker 7 (46:33):
I was only teasing with him. I'm glad he took
it that way. Joe Toney, what you know what this
team could really use Joey No, just a solid veteran
left guard to play next to your rookie left tackle.
Speaker 11 (46:47):
Right.
Speaker 7 (46:47):
It would make me feel I think Evan's been talking
about Jared Wilson. I started talking about Jared Wilson in
OTAs when he wasn't even playing. Just the profile of
the athleticism. I think he's going to be a really
good player. I'd feel a lot better if they didn't
have to have two rookies starting next to each other
(47:07):
right away, right out of the shoot. Now, based on
what they have, That's what I'm hoping for, because I
think you limited with Garrett Bradberry in Ben Brown. You know,
I think this upside with Wilson, but they could really
use a guy like Joe Toney who didn't cost that
was a fourth round pick but didn't cost that much.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
But he costs more in terms of the money. And
I know that we know what they have the money
have I we know how this works. Like they yes,
they have cap space, but like all I wanted them
to do was sign like the Morgan.
Speaker 10 (47:42):
Moses of left Cards, right, like, just.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Give me a solid veteran, give me a Garridge to
feel a lot better, Give me a bridge guy that
can play the position for twenty twenty five so that
once they draft Patrick mccar people who they might have
gone after, right that for a name. Yeah, exactly like
this that the tuning of it all. I just kind
(48:04):
of he's an eighteen he's an eighteen million dollar player, right,
So like now you're paying your two starting guards forty
million dollars.
Speaker 8 (48:12):
Yeah, but only for a year.
Speaker 10 (48:13):
I know, but they weren't going to do it, Like
I I.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
It's just one of those things that just bugs me
because I knew they I know they weren't going to
do it.
Speaker 7 (48:20):
So like it's just ya, But you say that ago
and you're right, But why do we have to accept it?
Why do we have to say they're right because they're not.
They weren't going to do it, and we know that.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
I one hundred percent agree with a hundred been on
something that was never going to happen.
Speaker 8 (48:36):
But why is that okay?
Speaker 10 (48:37):
It's not necessarily okay, but we just keep it.
Speaker 7 (48:39):
So let's let's keep bringing up the same switch sports
for a second and see if it's okay with you
that Bill Chisholm has called the plug on the twenty
five twenty six Celtics season.
Speaker 10 (48:49):
Don't do that.
Speaker 7 (48:50):
You're not okay with that? You knew they were going
to do it once Tatum got hurt. There's no chance
you want me to I would like you to.
Speaker 8 (48:56):
Say I don't agree with them.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
I don't agree with their approach that left guard, I
don't necessarily need it.
Speaker 10 (49:02):
I didn't need it to be Joe Toney.
Speaker 8 (49:04):
No, it didn't have to be.
Speaker 7 (49:05):
But you brought up Patrick McCarty. But that would have
been a name. But that would have been a really
good option to me.
Speaker 10 (49:10):
That was very player, I'd say, the best left guard
in football.
Speaker 7 (49:13):
Now, maybe if you wanted to make an argument to me,
why didn't they do it? Maybe Kansas City wouldn't have
wanted to trade him in the conference.
Speaker 10 (49:19):
They didn't do it because of money. We can just
say that.
Speaker 7 (49:21):
No, what I'm saying, maybe Kansas City wouldn't have wanted
to trade him for a fourth round pick to the
Patriots in the conference. Maybe I don't know that you're
being nice, but I'm saying that they should want to
do moves like that. You're not asking them to pay
guards forever that amount of money, but for a year
where you have a second year quarterback and a rookie
(49:42):
left tackle, it would have made some sense to me.
Speaker 8 (49:44):
And then you move on the next year.
Speaker 4 (49:45):
I hear you, But I just ready to say that.
Speaker 10 (49:49):
Weren't going to happen.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Like it's just like I get it, Like they should
you know, there's a million of these, right, million examples,
or we do this and we bring people up, and
we bring players up that have on on to have
success other places that were never going to be here.
So it's just it's it's annoying. Like George Pickens is
the other one that I just they were never trading
for George and they were never drafting George Pickens. They
(50:11):
were never trading for DK mech.
Speaker 8 (50:12):
Why why is that okay?
Speaker 7 (50:14):
Like Pickings, you can make an argument, Mike's been on
this argument for three years.
Speaker 12 (50:18):
What do you mean?
Speaker 8 (50:19):
You know why?
Speaker 4 (50:20):
Like this is Metcalf is not that guy Metcalf plays.
Metcalf is a voisterous person, So what and I don't
digs a cheaper version, Like I just we keep going
on and on about players that they just weren't ever
(50:40):
going to acquire and that's fine.
Speaker 8 (50:41):
Like I just don't understand why that's okay.
Speaker 4 (50:43):
I'm not saying bring up Joe Tony. It's been six
months of talking about Joe Tony. I just he's not
walking through the door.
Speaker 7 (50:52):
Like if he went for the first round pick, I'd say, well,
I understand that they're not in that spot, but for
a fourth round pick.
Speaker 8 (50:58):
I would have done.
Speaker 10 (50:59):
It's almost midnight.
Speaker 6 (51:01):
I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 5 (51:02):
This one's interesting, Christopher Main. If we're comparing Drake made
of Josh Allen, I don't know who did that. If
we want to send to a top quarterback, if we
want him to do that, McDaniel system is exactly what
will limit his ability to get to that level. Being
safe with the ball, making good decisions is not where
May needs to be in progression. Running the ball forty
times a game, running screens every other passing play is
(51:25):
limiting him in his player development.
Speaker 10 (51:28):
That's not what they're doing, and I'm getting annoyed.
Speaker 8 (51:32):
I'm going to get annoyed with Evan send you know,
with you not again?
Speaker 10 (51:37):
I know, I know that's just.
Speaker 7 (51:39):
Brian Table in Buffalo and did exactly what This is
what you're talking about. I agree with Evan. They're not
going to just run the ball forty times every game.
They're going to be a game plan offense, and it's
going to change from week to week and whatnot. But
that's exactly what Josh Allen needed to develop, was to
take the safe throws and protect the football and stop
(52:02):
trying to make the play on every play. That's what
got Josh Allen to where he is was Brian Dable
beating the Bay take the profit.
Speaker 6 (52:14):
He would force it and get picked off.
Speaker 7 (52:16):
That's exactly what Brian Dabele did for Josh Allen. Now
Allen is in a spot where he's I.
Speaker 8 (52:21):
Mean, he still does it occasionally.
Speaker 7 (52:23):
Like two years ago, he threw like sixteen or eighteen interceptions,
right just two years ago.
Speaker 8 (52:29):
I just he still does that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
I get it it Again, I'm not trying trying to
take shots at the listeners, but you guys are only
watching the preseason games. So when they go into a
preseason game like this with Ben Woolridge at quarterback and
they run a bunch of draws and screens, you think
the whole offense is draws and screens. And it's it's
different at practice. Like I'm not saying that it's that
(52:53):
they're again I'm not saying that they're executing like the
Dynasty Patriots did on offense, but the the play calls
and the scripts are different. They're not running draws and screens.
Speaker 8 (53:04):
And I think you're right about that.
Speaker 7 (53:06):
But even if they were, you know, being conservative with
the passing game. I think your Josh Allen thing is
off base. I think that's exactly how they beat the
mistakes out of Josh Allen was to tell him to
stop playing Superman every play. And I think there's a
little bit of that in Drake May that still needs
to be beaten out of him, you know, with the
(53:28):
extending plays and exposing the football and some of the
things that we've seen with the fumbles and whatnot, I
think are very preventable. I don't think I think Evan's right.
I don't think they're going to ask him to throw
screen passes every play. But they're gonna throw a lot
of short stuff. There's gonna be a lot of that.
There's gonna be a lot of shallow crosses, there's gonna
be a lot of you know, option routes, you know,
just just beyond the sticks. They're gonna be asking guys
(53:50):
to pick up first downs after the catch. Chevon Henderson
is going to get a lot of targets, So I
would I would be prepared for that, but.
Speaker 8 (53:59):
It's not going to be exclusively that either. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (54:03):
I get the concern though, but I mean I think
that's you know, you want to take full advantage of
Drake May's skills and that's what he is.
Speaker 8 (54:09):
I love that last year about him not afraid to
uncork one down down the field.
Speaker 9 (54:13):
And you know, the color called in didn't really even
mention Mac Collins, who that you know, that's kind of
the guy that they like to push the ball down
the field too, And we've seen plenty of that in practice.
So but that's the fun part about any in the preseason.
Now we get to get game plans. And they actually
brought up.
Speaker 7 (54:27):
Digs a little while ago too, like, do you think
the offense, you know, the passing game has been bad
all three games, really it hasn't been very effective, But
do you think Diggs might help that a little bit again?
Speaker 5 (54:38):
And he stretches the defense too. It's just another guy
they have. I mean, you look at what he did
with the Texans. There was so much talent on that offense.
And he's still about the ball.
Speaker 9 (54:46):
Think he's going to be the engine, you know, and
that's I don't know if he's the same player that
he once was or that they'll use him the same way,
but I think he's he still looks really good to me, uh,
you know, and I Granted, I haven't seen a lot
of great receivers in my time here working in person
out on those practice fields, but to me, he looks
like he still has it and I think that he's
going to be a big part of what they do.
Speaker 8 (55:06):
Same with Pop Douglas.
Speaker 9 (55:07):
You know, I think he's going to be a big
part of you know, this quick passing game, getting Drake
into a rhythm and you know, then setting it up
so he's able to push the ball down the field.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
I will say, I don't know if it's just Boston Radio,
but they seem to hate on Steph Diggs every time,
like he's lost, he's old, he is, he's that, But
is he really that much worse than when we last
saw him. I understand he's coming off of injury, which
is huge, and I'm curious how much you guys think
that'll impact him. But like I said, I thought he
(55:36):
looked good when he was in Houston.
Speaker 8 (55:38):
I thought he looked good and a lot of the
one on ones on the first day.
Speaker 9 (55:41):
And you know, again, this is all practice and stuff,
but you know that's just what didn't give for me.
Like I'm sitting in there and I look over at
like these one on ones and seven on sevens, and
I'm like, Stefan Diggs is doing whatever he wants over
there right now, And then we kind of came out
of it. He's been really disappointing, and I was like, well,
you know, maybe if you look through it in eleven
on eleven and we're keeping track of the stats and
how many times does he pop up? Sure, but just
(56:03):
looking at him in a bubble, he looks still looks
pretty good to me. Now, what was he still at
that level? How's Josh gonna use him? What's that connection
gonna be?
Speaker 8 (56:09):
Like with Drake?
Speaker 9 (56:10):
It's looked pretty good to me so far, but we
all know once the bullets start flying, anything's possible.
Speaker 10 (56:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (56:16):
He he has these like stretches of practices or like
a handful of reps where he's just like all right, yeah,
like I'm Stefan Diggs. I'm just gonna be the best
player on the field. But then he'll I kind of
disappear for a while. And I wonder if that's just
kind of where he's at in his career. Like, I
don't think that you need Stefan Diggs to take every
eleven on eleven rep, Like he's the guy that's trying
(56:38):
to make the team like some of these other players are.
So he has these periods, moments whatever where he's he
just kind of turns it on and you see what
you need to see out of him. And then he's like, yeah,
you know, I just I just turned that corner around
and caught that pass and now I'm gonna go stand
on the sidelines for a little while.
Speaker 5 (56:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (56:57):
I just say, like, I just love to see Kyle
Williams get back out here and continue like it seemed
like he was starting to build something.
Speaker 8 (57:03):
Last week he got, you know, concussed.
Speaker 9 (57:04):
Unfortunately, we think I hopefully he's okay, because I just
I see him as a real X factor. I think,
you know what you can expect from the other guys.
But if he's able to bring an element of what
we think we were kind of seeing of clearly getting
open off the line, but also separating a little bit downfield,
if they're able to put that element in to compliment
Diggs and Douglas and sprinkle in some booty and a
(57:24):
little bit of mac hollins, you know.
Speaker 7 (57:26):
I agree with you about getting him back out there
because I just haven't seen enough of him.
Speaker 8 (57:30):
With Drake May. Yeah, and that's telling me one of
two things.
Speaker 7 (57:33):
Either they don't think he's ready for that, or he's
been a disappointment. And I want to see what it
looks like, you know. And I would say, to a
lesser extent the same with you, O boy, Chisholm, you know,
can I can I see what it looks like when
he's being covered by ones and playing with ones, Yeah,
to see if he can be part of the offense.
Speaker 6 (57:55):
How do you feel about their spots on the roster
as of right now?
Speaker 7 (57:58):
Oh, Kyle Williams is a lock, I would say, Chisholm,
is you know by all accounts of lock too? I mean,
I I just don't know how many receivers they're going
to take. I don't want to call him a lock
until I know they're going to keep more than five receivers.
But there are those five guys. I don't think is
any chance that it's not going to be Digs, Douglas, Booty, Williams.
Speaker 8 (58:21):
And Hollins right yet.
Speaker 7 (58:25):
I don't see any scenario that those five guys aren't here,
so they keep more than five.
Speaker 8 (58:29):
Chisholm's gotta make it right. He's clearly six right now.
Speaker 4 (58:34):
Yeah, Kyle Williams is the X factor. Like he's the
best downfield receiver that they have. Even the times that
he's flashed in practice, it's been on my go routes
and you know, beating press coverage on the outside on
vertical routes.
Speaker 8 (58:48):
He's been impressive.
Speaker 10 (58:50):
Yeah, Like those are the moments where he is at
his best.
Speaker 8 (58:53):
I want to see more with that. Seems like he
gets a lot of work.
Speaker 9 (58:57):
It's almost like the opposite of Jalen Pop last year,
where it's like he has hasn't gotten a lot of work,
but like you still just think there's something there, whereas
like with Polk, I remember being like there's nothing there.
Speaker 8 (59:05):
But I made that line to you guys and Claudia.
Speaker 7 (59:11):
I was talking during the week on Patriots on filter
and I just said, if we were just looking at it,
you know, in a bubble, who had a better training
camp Jalen Polk last year or Kyle Williams this year.
I think that one hundred observers, one hundred out of
one hundred would say Jalen Polk last year. Now, I
think that Kyle Williams has been asked to do things
that are much more difficult than Polk did last year.
(59:33):
So I think the degree of difficulty is much higher.
He's been asked, like Evan said, he's got to get
off the line and get downfield and make some plays.
Whereas Polk I think has run a lot. You know,
he ran a million shallow crosses last year. Now we
caught them all, caught a million passes in training camp
last year. That's why I would say Polk had a
been the production, right. I mean, I would say that
(59:55):
he had a better camp last year than Williams just
had this year. Now that said, I'll take you guys,
I argue with you guys last year, I just don't
see it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
I'll take Williams any day.
Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
And even though he doesn't know the production, it's.
Speaker 10 (01:00:11):
An eye test thing.
Speaker 8 (01:00:12):
I see him getting open.
Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
He's a more dynamic route runner, and I think when
you put him Kyle Williams pop and digs like that's
the best trio of separators that they've had in years.
If all three of them are playing at a high level.
So I think that's exciting. If Kyle Williams is as
good as as we hope he's going to be. But
(01:00:34):
if you put all three of those guys together. Now
you have a group that really gets open. I don't
know if you have a group of anybody that can
win the ball down the field, and that's probably but.
Speaker 7 (01:00:43):
As you just said that, this is like three man
beaters that they haven't had in years.
Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
They have guys that can truly separate. And then you
add mccollins into that mix. Is somebody with some size
and it's it's there's worse receiver rooms in the NFL,
But it all depends on if Kyle Williams is that guy,
right m.
Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Hm, ceiling could be high. We'll leave it there. Kevin
and Burlington, what's going on?
Speaker 16 (01:01:08):
Thay, guys, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted
to make two points and then to ask you guys
a question. I think the reason why you're seeing a
lot of running and play action in the preseason games
is because that's really the only time there's live tackling.
During joint practices, it's not really live tackling, so you
can't really get an idea of how well you're running
(01:01:30):
the ball. And another point I wanted to make is,
you know, I think you might start seeing with the
McVeigh influence from Thomas Brown. Unlike a game plan specific
regular season case, like if they're going against a defense
that's really man coverage heavy, you might see, you know,
(01:01:52):
some of those big Bay Bunch formations to beat it.
And then just finally I had a question, what do
you guys think are you Are you concerned at all
about having a first time defensive coordinator calling the plays
because it is the brave ol really the defensive mastermind
(01:02:13):
that can really make up for it, because how is
his Tennessee defenses after Dnp's lap after the first couple
of years.
Speaker 6 (01:02:23):
Thanks Thanks Kevin.
Speaker 8 (01:02:26):
It's a lot of questions from midnight.
Speaker 7 (01:02:28):
Yeah, I don't know about enough about the defensive stuff.
You know, whether Terrell Williams is qualified.
Speaker 10 (01:02:35):
I mean, he's definitely qualified.
Speaker 8 (01:02:38):
I mean I don't know if I'm worried about him
calling plays. I don't. I don't.
Speaker 7 (01:02:41):
I don't have enough information to answer that. I disagree
about the running. You know, you can tell plenty how
you're running the ball in practice. You don't know how
many yards you're getting because you don't know how many
tackles you're breaking now, but you know, but you know
when the ball, when the ball gets the contact is
happening at the line of scrimmage or when that contact
is happening five yards downfield.
Speaker 8 (01:03:00):
Yeah, you know how well you're running the ball in practice?
Speaker 9 (01:03:02):
Yeah, I'd say that's something I've kind of learned watching
practices now like I have, I mean being a fan
not watching that, and then you start to get a
sense of it, like ooh, that would have been a run,
you know that, Like you kind of like with the
Patriot plays.
Speaker 8 (01:03:14):
And passing, you're just like physical practice mood.
Speaker 7 (01:03:16):
That was good, you know some Yeah, I think you
you can tell that they're don't They don't run the
ball more in the preseason games for that reason, let's
just put it that way. I do think there might
be something to what the caller, you know, a couple
of callers ago was talking about with the pass protection,
and maybe that's because that that might be something to that.
That might be why they run the ball now tonight.
(01:03:38):
I think they fell behind, they had all their backups
in and they just said, let's let's keep let's run
the ball. They ran the ball, and halfway through the
third quarter was twenty eight to ten, and they pretty
much predominantly ran the ball to run the clock out.
Speaker 9 (01:03:50):
I would say, definitely, this is a good thing to
point out. AV was the screen pass today that's been
a problem for this defense.
Speaker 8 (01:03:58):
Joint practice even tweeted it out and tweeted it out polite.
It's something they got to figure out.
Speaker 9 (01:04:04):
I just I really wonder with week one now and
Ashton genty and you know, if anybody in the Raiders
is paying attention to what's been going on with the
Patriots the screen game, it's just it's been it's.
Speaker 8 (01:04:13):
Been a problem. And talking to.
Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
Those times where they hopefully aren't watching our show anything,
we're because.
Speaker 7 (01:04:23):
I was like, yeah, I was listening to that post game,
so we were like, hey, let's try it.
Speaker 9 (01:04:30):
I mean, I mean, it's just it's I just I
wonder if it's a function of the aggressiveness. But you know,
I've also seen cases where the backside end holds his
ground and reads it and snuffs it out. You know,
it's just that that's what again. But when you started
to get into guys who aren't quite maybe fits for
the scheme at defensive end and aren't quite athletic enough
(01:04:52):
to throw the brakes on and put their foot down
and run the other.
Speaker 8 (01:04:55):
Way to break up the screen pass. You know, that's
where you start to have the depth issues.
Speaker 9 (01:04:59):
So now it's not just the scheme, but it's the
depth and it's the guys that you're trying to have
execute those things. So it's just I'll be interested to
see they talk about versatility.
Speaker 8 (01:05:08):
Nobody wants to talk about the scheme. What does it
look like in week one?
Speaker 9 (01:05:12):
I know what I've been watching them run throughout training
camp and joint practices and some of the vanilla stuff.
Speaker 8 (01:05:17):
They've been doing here in the preseason games.
Speaker 9 (01:05:18):
But you know how much twists are there when we
do get to the regular season, And is there a
plan to say, look, we cannot let ashtraon genty and
brock Bauers eat us alive with little screen passes and
dump offs, because that's what that's what the teams have
been doing to them this preseason.
Speaker 8 (01:05:32):
Haven't successful with it.
Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
I think the point that you brought up about nobody
wants to talk about the defensive scheme is so on
point because like we had then assistant coaches available defensive
coaches earlier this week, and they would not say a
thing about the defense that they're running. And that tells
me that this defense is going to be kind of
(01:05:54):
unique and it's going to kind of be its own thing,
and they don't want to show any cards. And that's
tell to me, Like I I to the caller is
a question about I don't know if it's concerned. I
think it's just unknown. Like Terrell Williams has never called
plays before at this level. He's more than an experienced
and more than do to be a defensive coordinator. I mean,
(01:06:15):
he's been coaching football for forever, So that's not the question.
But it sounds like Terrell Williams is sort of running
the front seven and then.
Speaker 10 (01:06:24):
The safety's coach, Scott Booker midnight.
Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
Scott Booker is kind of running the secondary and then
they kind of come together and they put it together
and that that can work. Like that, there's no reason
why that can't work. But the play calling is not. Again,
it's an unknown. Like when it's third down and certain
downs and distances on third down?
Speaker 10 (01:06:44):
Is he a blitz call play caller? Is he a
coverage guy?
Speaker 8 (01:06:47):
Is you know?
Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Are they gonna spin the dial or are they gonna
be stagnant? Like these different things are just things like
nerds like me will charge and figure out.
Speaker 8 (01:06:56):
Guys about the defense.
Speaker 9 (01:06:57):
Absolutely, I would err on the side of aggression. I
think that's usually the way they're gonna go just right.
Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
But is it aggression with a four man rush? Papers
is it sims? Is it straight up blink?
Speaker 9 (01:07:06):
I would just point to one, you know, the one
play on the first day when they were in the
competitive last period, and it was they got them backed
up third and fifteen, McCarthy broke the pocket, ran fourth
and five. This is the game on the line right here,
and he sent the house and McCarthy just kind of
drop back and just dumped a quick pass off to
Jordison at Jordan Edison for a first down. So you know,
(01:07:26):
it was a small glimpse to me of some of
the all out blitz situations where like, I just think
they're gonna be really aggressive and sometimes it's gonna pay off,
but sometimes they're gonna they're gonna pay five.
Speaker 7 (01:07:35):
I agree with Mike with the aggressive part, and I
also would say when you have a guy like Gonzales
that allows you to do some different things that maybe
some other teams can't. And we haven't had them all summer,
so you haven't got a chance, even in practice to
see what that might look like in a situation like
you just described. I think they're gonna be pretty aggressive
(01:07:56):
with those two corners, knowing that they can lock up. Man,
they're gonna get beat. They're gonna give up some of
those plays because everybody does.
Speaker 8 (01:08:01):
I don't care how.
Speaker 7 (01:08:02):
Good you are, you still give up plays and completions.
But I'd be surprised if they didn't do it aggressively.
Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Yeah, I'm just fascinated to see it. Like I think
the caller said it as a concern, I'm not concerned.
I just want to know, like, what are you running?
And we'll see what they end up doing. But they
weren't a big blitz defense in Tennessee. They were more
of a four man rush defense. But with the way
that defenses are playing now, you know four man rush,
(01:08:30):
you can get to four in different ways. So how
do you get to four? I think is a question.
You know, are they blitzing somebody from the second or
third level, but then they're dropping somebody off the line
of scrimmage and trying to kind of create blitzes by
doing that. Is will be fun to watch and see
the different ways that they get to four because I
think the four is going to be different four, you know,
(01:08:50):
down to down so well.
Speaker 7 (01:08:52):
Kerrell Williams talked a little bit about that too, Like
I think they asked them about his past rushers and
he says, there's a lot of ways to create pressure.
Speaker 8 (01:08:59):
Yeah, you know, talked about some of that stuff.
Speaker 9 (01:09:01):
I don't want to get too deep into like the
you know, the nitty gritty of what they're running. We're
getting nitty, but you know, I mean, like in general terms,
and again this is in the preseason, which could mean nothing.
It's you know, a lot of the cover two snaps
that you have from last year are now cover four snaps.
And you know, you wonder if just part of the
philosophy is going to be we're gonna hang four back
and we're gonna send guys after you and just we're
(01:09:23):
not gonna let you hit deep. And so if you
get the ball out quick, we're gonna come up and tackle.
But we're gonna either we're going to force you.
Speaker 8 (01:09:28):
To get the ball out quick. We're not gonna get
let you sit back in the pocket and beat us deep.
But we'll see how it all comes together. I mean,
it's definitely part of the game.
Speaker 9 (01:09:36):
That's gonna be most fascinating to me a couple of
weeks from Sunday.
Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
Yeah, so they you know, they ran they have been
running a lot more quarters, and they've been running a
lot of creepers, which is when you blitz a guy
that you expect to drop into coverage and then you're
dropping a player that you expect to rush off the
line of scrimmage, and it's a blitz. It creates the
same idea as a blitz, but you're not sacrificing the
numbers in coverage. So instead of it being like a
zone or a hot zone or a blit zone, it's
(01:10:00):
really still seven coverage and four in the rush, but
you're just getting through it differently.
Speaker 10 (01:10:04):
This is very late at night to be talking about this.
Speaker 4 (01:10:07):
I'm trying to like explain it the best way I
called filibus.
Speaker 8 (01:10:12):
So, yeah, so exactly how Mike and I had this
drawn up.
Speaker 5 (01:10:17):
I just it's gonna take over the.
Speaker 8 (01:10:23):
Cover three they ran last year. Talk about that one.
Speaker 4 (01:10:25):
This is, you know, the things that I legitimately do
think about the time I.
Speaker 8 (01:10:31):
Dabble. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
I mean, I'm looking all those things up to I mean,
but yeah, it's uh it'll be fun to see.
Speaker 8 (01:10:37):
I just I mean, I just am excited for just
the defense. That's just be like, we're coming, We're coming
to get you. Good luck. You know you're probably gonna
get us, but man, we're definitely gonna get you too.
Speaker 9 (01:10:45):
So it'll be it'll be fun to watch, I hope,
except when they get caught and everybody's running that way
and then they go.
Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
That way too gap, too gap, terrible.
Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
That is what we hope from our defense. Let's talk
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Speaker 6 (01:11:18):
Forward slash pats or.
Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
With coupon code pa ts and a reminder that the
Patriots pregame show is sponsored by the Massachusetts two fifty campaign,
commemorating a history of possibility.
Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
Playing a revolutionary.
Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
Weekend at Massachusetts two fifty dot Org and I'll save
the bud light for when we're feeling thirsty.
Speaker 8 (01:11:37):
At the very end, it's gonna be.
Speaker 5 (01:11:39):
This show billion event that I see for hanging on
for see hanging on your how you doing? What'd you
think of the game?
Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
Billy?
Speaker 18 (01:11:49):
So we saw Martin Mossu play tonight, which means obviously
he's on the bubble for the roster. If he doesn't
make it as a linebacker, a chance that we might
revert him back to safety.
Speaker 8 (01:12:01):
No like that.
Speaker 10 (01:12:05):
I just yeah, know, I think that this is his
last chance.
Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Like, if he doesn't make it, they they tried the
safety thing, it didn't work out. Now they lett him
try linebacker. If he doesn't make it as a linebacker,
I think that that's another one of those guys that
that experiment.
Speaker 10 (01:12:18):
Is over with.
Speaker 9 (01:12:19):
It's just hard with like I feel now for the
reliability aspect of some of these players like Jawan Baker
Marte has been hurt a lot, and.
Speaker 8 (01:12:27):
You know it's a coaching staff.
Speaker 9 (01:12:28):
It's just you know, availability is your best ability being
able to be out there, and it's just it's hard
to trust Mapu And maybe he did show a little
bit tonight. I mean it's how much do you judge
him quickly because he is kind of in a new position,
a position that a lot of people have been banging.
Speaker 8 (01:12:43):
The table for for a while for him to play.
But I still don't know if he's really a fit.
Speaker 10 (01:12:48):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
I think the role for him was coverage linebacker, special
teams ACE and I don't know if I I thought
he had some good coverage reps tonight, I'm interested to
see how I.
Speaker 8 (01:13:01):
Thought it was.
Speaker 7 (01:13:01):
I thought he was reasonably active in the game. I
do agree with that. I thought he showed up.
Speaker 8 (01:13:05):
I just look at it as I don't know who
they like, but I don't think.
Speaker 7 (01:13:10):
They have any depth at linebacker. And I'm not willing
to say he can't make it because it's splane and
that is it, Jack Gibbons, If it's that spots, yeah,
Jack Gibbons, you know, and then it's Christian Ellis and
Tavai on the other side. Maybe, like I think Mapu's
athleticism should be something that they should they should want
(01:13:34):
to work with.
Speaker 9 (01:13:35):
It's I mean, it's the same conversation we've been having
at the top with the same guys that you know,
maybe quite have them made the push or don't quite
fit and aren't really their guys, but they're only the
only guys you got so and they do have some talent,
so you might just have to bite the bullet, keep
them around and see how it all works out.
Speaker 11 (01:13:51):
You know.
Speaker 7 (01:13:51):
I talked about Kendrick Bourne probably starting on IR something
like that. I could see the same kind of situation
for Tavai, who we really haven't seen since what day one,
had day.
Speaker 8 (01:14:01):
Two one or two? Yeah, he's been out there every day.
Speaker 7 (01:14:05):
We see him at practice every day, but he hasn't
really practiced since July twenty fourth.
Speaker 9 (01:14:10):
Yeah, And I would just say, like even to Otia
is not to read too much into it, but like
to me, it appeared he was in that mix, being
next to Splaine and you.
Speaker 8 (01:14:18):
Know, being a part of it. He wasn't after I.
Speaker 7 (01:14:20):
Thought he was the guy next to next to Splaine
in the in the spring, which.
Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
Is where he belongs. Like when he was that, I
think they called it like the Fixer or something like that.
It was just adjuster playing next to Bentley.
Speaker 10 (01:14:34):
He's not.
Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
When he was playing Bentley's spot, he was exposed a
little bit last year, but when he was able to
play off of like a really good middle linebacker like
Bentley or Splaine. He seemed more comfortable there, kind of
being like the Robin and not the.
Speaker 8 (01:14:47):
Bad making the call right.
Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
So maybe he can do that and still carve out
a role for himself. It's one of those guys, like
we were talking off the top of the show, that
I just don't I think it's too premature to move
on from all of these guys just because they're not
in your vision two to three years from now.
Speaker 10 (01:15:02):
I don't think they have the depth to walk away
from at this point.
Speaker 5 (01:15:09):
Yeah, all right, Adrian in California?
Speaker 8 (01:15:16):
I love you, Adrian. Are you there, Adrian? I don't
think a sleep.
Speaker 6 (01:15:24):
Actually, no, Cali there, are you here with us?
Speaker 8 (01:15:29):
I can't win. No, not amused by your game that
you want to get.
Speaker 6 (01:15:38):
I was about to get to that.
Speaker 8 (01:15:40):
Look at you play, it's almost.
Speaker 6 (01:15:42):
Like, yeah, stop creeping on my computer.
Speaker 5 (01:15:47):
Curtis a little agree or disagree game for you guys.
Speaker 6 (01:15:51):
We'll do we got ten minutes left. Kind of rapid
fire dig starts week one. Agree agree, agree right. Only
reason he wouldn't as if a cl is bothering him.
Speaker 5 (01:16:03):
Right, But that was some major issue that too. Douggart doesn't.
Dougger doesn't get traded, but does get cut.
Speaker 9 (01:16:15):
Question work disagree, Soft disagree, Soft disagree.
Speaker 8 (01:16:19):
I disagree. I just can't see them.
Speaker 9 (01:16:21):
Kind of it's tough, Okay, I would be I wouldn't
be like, oh my god, yeah, be like, well, but
I think he'll make it.
Speaker 6 (01:16:28):
We kind of already touched on this. But Chisholm makes
the fifty three. Yeah, he makes it.
Speaker 7 (01:16:33):
Moses not as strong as they are, But I think
that's crazy.
Speaker 10 (01:16:37):
At some point they.
Speaker 7 (01:16:38):
Have to keep six receivers to do it. I don't
think every team does that.
Speaker 6 (01:16:44):
And you think they need it more at.
Speaker 19 (01:16:45):
Other every team keeps six receivers nowadays the most, particularly
when the sixth can't really play special teams just he's
a I guess a returner option, but he's not really
a special team option.
Speaker 9 (01:16:57):
Oh, little small he played pretty good in the punk
covers team.
Speaker 8 (01:17:01):
He's too small to do that against the NFL player
eight rep though, I am telling you it was amazing.
Speaker 10 (01:17:07):
That's true. There's I talked with such a good rep.
The whole sideline.
Speaker 8 (01:17:12):
It was a Chisholm special teams blocking.
Speaker 10 (01:17:15):
Everybody had a little chest crowd. It really did.
Speaker 8 (01:17:19):
Every were chis everywhere. It was great.
Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
Its way, all right, that's where the show ends. Games over,
I'm kidding, I'm giving more.
Speaker 7 (01:17:34):
You remember that eleven for one eighty eight in twenty
fourteen for Brian Tims in the preseason.
Speaker 8 (01:17:39):
You remember that, right? You know about the fifteen research?
How about the fifteen for twenty fourteen years?
Speaker 7 (01:17:49):
Remember twenty fifteen when Chris Harper had fifteen for one fifty.
Speaker 8 (01:17:54):
I mean that clearly was the start of his illustrious
NFL career.
Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
So you went back and looked up stats from like
five years ago which he watched his six catches, which
which was in one minute cut up for you and
sent it to you.
Speaker 8 (01:18:08):
I didn't go back and look at it. He was
he just an No, I didn't go back and watch these.
They could have been ridiculously easy catches too. I don't
know ideas.
Speaker 7 (01:18:18):
Of course, you remember Austin Cars fourteen for one fifty
three and two tonnies.
Speaker 10 (01:18:22):
Why do you pull back in.
Speaker 8 (01:18:23):
Twenty seventies, guys, Because I'm trying.
Speaker 7 (01:18:25):
I tried to make a point to you guys that
I've seen this guy virtually every preseason.
Speaker 8 (01:18:30):
You guys said not like this.
Speaker 20 (01:18:32):
You guys both are not like this, And I'm like, okay,
well maybe we're teasing you, but in all seriousness though,
like you bring up all these guys, but they're literally like,
in fairness, Paul, they're putting somebody in the Patriots Hall
of Fame next month that was.
Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
This guy, like he literally was this guy like he
had he had a moment in the Eagles preseason game.
Speaker 8 (01:18:50):
Could being extremely disrespectful to that guy. No, I'm like,
anybody could do it, no special.
Speaker 10 (01:18:56):
Saying anybody could do it.
Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
But he did it, Troy Brown did it, Wes Welker
did it, even to an extent, Danny Amondola did it.
Speaker 10 (01:19:04):
So like, but there's literally zero is not.
Speaker 7 (01:19:07):
Literally who dozen others that couldn't. So I'm going to
side with those guys are outliars, But aren't.
Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
Every isn't everybody at an outlier that performs at that level,
like at any position, So like if they're it's not
like there's not a single person that's ever done it.
Speaker 7 (01:19:23):
I think I think I think you when you're talking
about like a five to ten who didn't even play
with limited athleticism being able to excel like Wes Welker did,
that makes an outlier. But like if you're like six
three and run a four to three forty, like, that's
not an outlier if he ends up being a good player.
Speaker 4 (01:19:44):
No, but like the guy that they are all comparing
him to is Amondola, Like, I don't mean things he
runs more like Amondola. McDaniels thinks that he runs more
like Amandola, and Amandola is not. We're not talking about
a guy that that is, Like you know, Wes Welker level,
I just don't know, Like there are guys, there are examples, like, yes,
(01:20:04):
there are examples, like you brought up of a million
guys that did that. I'm getting to watch it. Finally,
he showed me the play when no one covers this
is it's a great scheme, A great job finding the
space in the zone.
Speaker 7 (01:20:20):
Come on, I could have found the space in that zone. Well, now,
I wouldn't have gotten thirty three yards. Admittedly they would
have caught me.
Speaker 4 (01:20:26):
Before there was never any precedent of a receiver like
aft Chis succeeding in the NFL. I'd be with you,
but we we've literally lived it like multiple times, so
it's hard to sit here and say that it's never happened.
Speaker 8 (01:20:39):
I didn't say it never happened. I said it's an outlier.
Speaker 10 (01:20:42):
Yeah, you'd be an outlier here to dream.
Speaker 6 (01:20:47):
I'm a friend of the program.
Speaker 8 (01:20:50):
And if they keep six receivers, he's making the team. Well,
I mean, I agree with you.
Speaker 9 (01:20:55):
I just I would just say if Kyle Wimbs really hurt, though,
he might be the fifth receiver right now, you know
what I mean, Like, if Kyle is out for any
period of time, he might be.
Speaker 8 (01:21:01):
But Kyle Williams is making the team. I know what
I'm just saying. You're gonna but then you're gonna go
into week one with just four receivers, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 10 (01:21:07):
Good point.
Speaker 8 (01:21:08):
No, Well, he if he has to start on I R,
then that's different.
Speaker 10 (01:21:12):
Or he just can't play week It might not be
on I R.
Speaker 7 (01:21:16):
But he can't play week one, then I R is
on the table totally. Because now you're talking about a
concussion that's keeping them out for three weeks.
Speaker 6 (01:21:24):
God jus you into.
Speaker 10 (01:21:30):
I really Hopeisholm is the next Fox Weelker, just just
just for that.
Speaker 8 (01:21:37):
That would be a great story. That would absolutely be
a great story.
Speaker 7 (01:21:40):
Would, and in full disclosure, I'll be as completely honest
and open with you as I possibly could. I didn't
think that Wes Welker was it, and I didn't think
Julian Edeman was it. So those two guys proved me wrong.
Speaker 10 (01:21:55):
Yeah, I think Edelman, you know you were You were there,
so I I'll defer to you.
Speaker 8 (01:22:01):
But I it took out him in a while.
Speaker 4 (01:22:02):
It took at him in a while, and I think
that it probably ultimately will take Chisholm longer than people
will want. Like the fans that saw him in the
preseason are gonna want him to play right away. He's
not gonna play right.
Speaker 7 (01:22:13):
But it took Edelman a while. Like that's a little
different too, Like he had to adjust from playing.
Speaker 10 (01:22:19):
Quarterback right and he had to like you know, Welker
was still here.
Speaker 7 (01:22:22):
No, But like, don't you think it would take longer
for a guy who's never played wide receiver.
Speaker 8 (01:22:27):
This guy's been a wide receiver as all career. I mean,
he was a record center at Eastern Washington, right, And
I think it shouldn't take him as long as that.
Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
All that's what gives me hope for for Chisholm is
that like it's translating, like what he did at Eastern
Washington was very prolific, and then now he's coming here.
Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
Maybe if he was doing what he's doing with Drake May,
I don't think I would be as obstinate.
Speaker 8 (01:22:50):
Is that a good word? A little being and pal
but hey, it's really.
Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
But I.
Speaker 8 (01:23:01):
Chris, Thanks to Chris, I've now seen the highlight pack.
Well you you somehow only glanced over at the one
play you've already seen. No, I'm just you know what,
I'm not going to be overly.
Speaker 7 (01:23:14):
I'm not going to be gushing over like the broken
tackles and stuff, because that's why he's hurt. Like that's
the I need the stuff that Evan's talking about, the
sort of recognizing how to settle in zones and quick
twitch and getting over that.
Speaker 10 (01:23:29):
We can agree if that can if that can happen,
if that.
Speaker 7 (01:23:32):
Can happen on a consistent bit. He's not going to
make a living breaking three tackles again first down.
Speaker 4 (01:23:36):
And the guys he's breaking tackles are an NFL players.
Speaker 10 (01:23:40):
No that we are in lockstep on it.
Speaker 7 (01:23:42):
But if he can do what Evan's talking about and
get you know, the quick breaking off the line of
scrimmage and immediately uncovering.
Speaker 8 (01:23:48):
You can make a living doing that, and that will
prove me wrong looking.
Speaker 6 (01:23:52):
Forward to So you guys agree that there, we agree.
Speaker 10 (01:23:56):
About the broken how it happens.
Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
The broken tackle thing, I think think is a preseason
thing that probably isn't going to translate to regular season.
Speaker 7 (01:24:05):
I'll even say, you know, in terms of that kind
of stuff, Trevion Henderson is the opposite in my mind.
Speaker 8 (01:24:12):
Of like this ship.
Speaker 7 (01:24:13):
This is a guy with all of the measurables, the athleticism,
through the through the roof, right. I don't want to
see him running the way he did in the first
preseason game, like trucking guys on the side and get
out of bounds, get the first down, get out of bounds,
don't take unnecessary hits. You're, you know, a smaller guy.
You're a smaller back who's had some durability issues in college.
(01:24:35):
I'm consistent with this. I don't think you're going to
be making a living trucking linebackers in space if you're
Travion Henderson, and I think he is ridiculously electric, right, Yeah,
So it's the same kind of mindset. It's not because Oh, Paul,
you just don't like after and Chisholm. No, it's nothing
to do with that. Has been as productive as you
(01:24:55):
can laying down Chism has done everything that they've asked
him to do in the summer.
Speaker 8 (01:25:00):
I don't think anybody would argue with you.
Speaker 4 (01:25:02):
I think that I'm really just filibustering at this point
on because I could talk about Chism for another hour.
Speaker 8 (01:25:09):
And a half more minutes.
Speaker 10 (01:25:10):
Yeah, I mean, but it's just you know, we we
we agree on the broken text. I digress.
Speaker 6 (01:25:17):
We can do like a super quick rapid fire. Rest
of these questions. Moses starts thirteen plus games.
Speaker 10 (01:25:25):
I'm gonna say yes. I'm going to say yes to
He's been right on that line the last couple of years.
Speaker 8 (01:25:30):
Yeah, bring and make place to a lot of stuff.
Speaker 6 (01:25:34):
Hunter leads the team and catches this year.
Speaker 8 (01:25:37):
I'm going to disagree.
Speaker 5 (01:25:38):
I'm going to say not this year, just because douglases Yeah.
Speaker 8 (01:25:45):
The third.
Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
I don't know, it sounds like a good Henderson leads
the backs and rush yards this year. Disagree, Yes, explosively
scrimmage yards rushing maybe maybe twenty plus.
Speaker 6 (01:26:01):
Patriots finished second in the division.
Speaker 8 (01:26:03):
Yes, they're going to win I could see that. Disagree
with that too.
Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
Okay, we need a.
Speaker 17 (01:26:13):
The super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (01:26:14):
We're going if they won this one undefeated in the preseason.
Speaker 19 (01:26:18):
They were going to get a billboard in Buffalo the
Perfect Seasons because they season preseason.
Speaker 7 (01:26:25):
You want to get it up there, just like Fred's
Perfect Seasons out how Bill's mafia?
Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
Is it to think that they're like owning us by
getting a billboard that says AFC East Champions?
Speaker 10 (01:26:36):
Oh cool, pathetic?
Speaker 5 (01:26:38):
Patriots average twenty one and a half points per game
this year?
Speaker 10 (01:26:42):
Oh better better.
Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
I hope.
Speaker 8 (01:26:46):
So, man, I mean they got chisel.
Speaker 6 (01:26:49):
The got the defense, finish top twelve in defense.
Speaker 10 (01:26:53):
Ah, that's your side to you, Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 6 (01:26:57):
You think.
Speaker 10 (01:26:59):
Love say total middle of the pack fielding? You say
total yards yards is different?
Speaker 6 (01:27:08):
Top twelve. I'm assuming like I think t v A.
I could see like fifteen.
Speaker 10 (01:27:18):
It's a better way to look at people.
Speaker 8 (01:27:21):
I know what it is.
Speaker 10 (01:27:22):
I know you know what it is.
Speaker 6 (01:27:31):
Finally, the Patriots win ten plus games.
Speaker 8 (01:27:34):
I disagree.
Speaker 10 (01:27:35):
I say eight eightee, I've been feeling lately.
Speaker 8 (01:27:41):
Nine and eight that's the number.
Speaker 5 (01:27:43):
Well, ten would be hard. Five would be easy, just
like bud light, easy to drink easy to enjoy. Bud Light,
the official beer sponsor.
Speaker 6 (01:27:52):
Of the New England Patriots. For evand is Paul.
Speaker 5 (01:27:56):
That was fun, guys, and guess what preseason is and
over Real Football Star. On September seventh, Raiders Patriots one pm.
We will be there pre and post. Thanks for hanging
out with us, Go to sleep.
Speaker 8 (01:28:12):
Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.
If you really want to.
Speaker 9 (01:28:15):
Help us, make sure you like us wherever you get
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to see this show and everything else that we do
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Speaker 8 (01:28:25):
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Patriots Catch twenty two Well, join Evan Lazar and Alex
Bart every Thursday as they take a deep dive into
the exit, the o's trends and latest New England Patriots
roster moves.
Speaker 10 (01:28:44):
You're not usually into the numbers, Okay, we do this.
Speaker 8 (01:28:47):
I'm into the tangible numbers.
Speaker 10 (01:28:49):
There's tame here. Just give me.
Speaker 4 (01:28:51):
There's the advantage fact you haven't know how to work it.
I'm surprised than you know, an old man over here.
I thought maybe i'd have to show you like a
tutorial or something.
Speaker 8 (01:28:58):
How am I old man dude?
Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Search for Patriots catch twenty two. Anywhere you get your
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This episode Patriots Postgame Show is presenting by Draft Kings.
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This is the Patriots Postgame Show presented by Draft Kings, Bush.
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Dot Dive to the Zone Touchdown Patriot.
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Joined the conversation by calling into the show at eight
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Hand off to Stevenson Hole across Cuts L forty five
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There live from our studio, inside you at Stadium. This
is the Patriots Postgame Show presented by Draft Kings.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
Yes, it is, guys, exciting final game with the preseason.
We've got Evan, We've got Deuce, We've got Paul, I'm Claudia.
Forty ten final, the home team, one undefeated season down
the drad Giants. They'll put up thirty plus and all
three of their preseason games as we knew, starters.
Speaker 6 (00:56):
Were in out there. Uh for the Patriots.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Some defensive guys though, and on the line we were surprised,
which we'll get into all that, the good, the bad,
the injured. I guess Paul just first reaction though to
that forty two to ten final.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
Yeah, they just didn't have the same kind of energy
I think that we saw in the first two games,
especially the first one, the Giants had a lot of
that buzz on their sideline all night. I know the
crew made a you know, a big deal of that,
but it.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
Was, it was apparent. It was.
Speaker 7 (01:23):
It was pretty evident when you were watching, and we
knew that they weren't going to have a lot of
frontline guys.
Speaker 8 (01:28):
But I still was a little disappointed.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
Individually, you know, I was looking for something from Ben Wooldridge.
I don't think he played as well as he had
in the previous two games. And then some guys that
we talked about a lot in the pregame. I'm sure
we're going to get into it. Some individuals like Javon
Baker would be one, you know. I think Jordan Polk
was another one that you guys, So, you know, is
(01:53):
this the end of the world. Of course not, but
you know, some disappointing individual results.
Speaker 9 (01:58):
In my opinion, yeah, I'd agree you kind of have
to dig deep to find the meaningful good and bad
performances rather than no piling on a guy who might
not even be on the team in a couple of days.
Speaker 8 (02:07):
So yeah, it was, uh, it was. It was a
little disappointing just to see it.
Speaker 9 (02:12):
But at the end again, like I feel like you're
checking a box here and you're trying to get out
of their healthy and.
Speaker 7 (02:16):
Certainly Mike Vabel and Josh McDaniels I think, yeah, had
that mindset in the second half.
Speaker 8 (02:20):
I think they ran the ball knowing we end it off,
just get out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
I have a tough time taking too many big takeaways
from a game like this. It felt like outside of
a few guys Kyle Duger, Kean White, a couple of
the offensive lineman Jared Wilson, Ben Brown, Real Pepper is
randomly playing a little bit in the first quarter after
not getting a lot of practice reps over the last week.
But besides those guys, I don't know how many players,
(02:46):
and I say this with all due respector are going
to be here after four pm on Tuesday. So I
have a tough time really putting anything there. But I
would agree with Paul mikey was effort and finished. And
I'm not trying to say that, no, it didn't show effort,
but the energy definitely was not there the same way
that you saw in the first two preseason games. But again,
(03:08):
how many of the guys that played tonight are really
going to be on this roster in four days?
Speaker 10 (03:13):
I can't really say.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I mean, there's a lot of bad, which I know
we'll get to, but shall we start with the good?
I think we can find some good in there. I
know Kyle Dugger was the name that we talked about
a lot in the pre show, and we're going to
talk about him a lot here. Six sackles, second most interception,
two pass deflections. I think he started off a little shaky,
but then he seemed to get comfortable out there.
Speaker 9 (03:35):
Yeah, yeah, I thought, you know, anytime he's playing out there,
it's the balance between all, right, well is he doing
enough against the players that he's playing against, and you know,
had that interception thrown to him, But otherwise I thought
he showed up pretty well. And it's just such a
hard player to really consider getting rid of. I just
it's quite a stretch. I think he'd really have to
fall down the depth chart. Is there never a situation
(03:55):
this year where you know what, Jubo Peppers gets hurt
or Jalen Hawkins or you know, he's clearly got some talent.
So I think Kyle Dugas's done enough to stick around.
I just don't know how much of a role he's
going to have right out of the game.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
He was out there for a while.
Speaker 8 (04:07):
Was that he.
Speaker 7 (04:09):
Played a lot, There's no question about it, and I'm
not necessarily I'm with Evan. I'm not taking away anything
necessarily from the individual performance. But I would say a
guy with his stature to have to play that much
and this game would have easily gone through the motions,
and I don't think he did.
Speaker 8 (04:27):
I give him credit.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
He's on my good list tonight for just the effort
that he showed in the game. He can't be happy
with the situation that's going on. I don't know what
the answer is. I don't know why he's fallen so
far out of favor. This can't be just about a
scheme fit. There's got to be something more to this.
But they have their reasons. I'm with Mike. If he's
(04:51):
not one of your best fifty three players, I'm not
sure I know what I'm looking at.
Speaker 8 (04:55):
And I would make an argument that.
Speaker 7 (04:58):
I can't put him in lower than second on the
depth chart at safety, and I think that you could
make an argument he's one, but they obviously don't see
it that way. Whether it's because of the contract or
something else, but I thought just the fact that he
kept playing tonight in a situation whese, I think some
veterans would have shut it down.
Speaker 8 (05:18):
I think that's commendable.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yeah, he was the best player on the field for
the Patriots tonight, I would say, And I just thought
that if you're looking for him to be in the
right places and coverage, and if it's a scheme thing
and it's a system thing and grasping the defense, he
was in the right place all night long. I thought
that he was on his p's and q's. Even though
the interception was an overthrow that was kind of gifted
(05:40):
to him. He's playing up top as the post safety
in man to man and he's right there with the
vertical route and over the top coverage there. So I
just thought, looking at some of the replays, even that
he's just playing deep safety and he's there. He's on
the spot for a handful of times. I thought he
was physical near the line of scrimmage, but also as
(06:02):
a deep defender enforcing back there when they're guys catching
the ball in front of him, he's laying the wood
and putting guys into the ground, So I don't know
what else he could have done.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
So, you know, the deep safety, because I think that's
what we're talking about a little bit when we say
scheme change, right, this is a little bit out of
his comfort zone, right.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Well, I would say deep safety in general is not
as strong suit of his. The more space he plays in,
the further away from the ball he is, his game
tends to slip a little bit. But what I see
from him with the deep safety stuff is that they're
playing a lot more quarters or split safety looks where
he has just different assignments, like his eyes are going
to be in different places, and he's king, you know,
(06:44):
the different routes from the inside receivers. If this guy
runs vertical, I carry, If he doesn't, I pass off
like that type of stuff. And I think there was
some things early on that maybe he wasn't fully on
board with in terms of the mental stuff. But tonight
I thought he was in all the right places, and
he played a lot of cover three, post safety, cover
three and man post safety today and I just thought
(07:07):
that he did the job at a pretty high level.
I know he's out there against backups, but your point
Paul like how he's definitely one of their best fifty
three players. And then he played his butt off tonight too,
So I just don't really know what else he could
look for for him.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
All right, So good we can say officially the only.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
One he's list, Mike, I'll give you a burnout.
Speaker 9 (07:28):
Jeremiah Webro quick with a nice punt return and a
touchdown catch.
Speaker 8 (07:34):
Yeah, he had a solid two minute drill him in.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Giles combined for four catches forty five yards on that
final drive of the first half.
Speaker 9 (07:40):
So I me two of your guys, Yeah, they did
only you know, complete ten passes.
Speaker 8 (07:43):
So we're looking a little bit grasping and straws here, But.
Speaker 9 (07:47):
Cherry becketting for a kid. You know, we weren't really
talking too much about him going in. We were spending
most of our time on Giles and Baker, and you know,
had a nice little night.
Speaker 8 (07:55):
Maybe it's enough to earn him a practice squad spot,
some kind of developmental spot. They've got a lot of
injuries right now.
Speaker 11 (07:59):
Why.
Speaker 8 (08:00):
I don't know if Jevon Baker's done enough.
Speaker 9 (08:02):
But you know, kid shows up last game, maybe maybe
warrants a second look.
Speaker 8 (08:06):
Yeah, I had I had web on my good list
as well.
Speaker 6 (08:10):
I mean, does it concern you guys though?
Speaker 5 (08:12):
One pass and I know it was not the starters
out there, but one pass completed four yards with just
under five to go in the second and we we
didn't see a ton of passing in the first two games.
I know, at least for the first game for sure.
That was a big issue. Travion was their best pass
catcher deep into the second and this was an issue
they had historically bad last year as well.
Speaker 8 (08:34):
Are you trying to take us right into the bats,
because I think I'm ready to go.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
I think we.
Speaker 10 (08:41):
Larger conversation though that it'd like to go on to.
Speaker 8 (08:44):
That it's a passing game in general.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, yeah, And also just like backup quarterback, I just
Josh dobbson play tonight. But I don't think that Josh
Dobbs has shown very well in the preseason either. And
it had a really rough joint practice with Minnesota. Kind
of bounced back on the second day in minnesot to
be fair to him, but I thought the first day
even Vrabel came out and said, like, can't make some
of those throws. So I just look at backup quarterback
(09:09):
in general, and I tend to say, like, if Drake
May gets hurt and they're on their backup quarterback, the
season is kind of in jeopardy anyways. It's not like
you're really most teams aren't planning on winning very many
games with their backup quarterback, but it's a spot.
Speaker 10 (09:24):
I was kind of hoping that.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Woolridge would would show us something tonight and take that
by storm. I don't think he really did with his
performance outside of that one two minute drive to in
the first half.
Speaker 10 (09:35):
So I think it's a combination if wherever.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
You want to go with it, guys, like passing offense
or just backup quarterback, looking specifically at tonight.
Speaker 8 (09:44):
Yeah, so just.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
Real quick, you know, I tried to be as generous
as I could with my good list. I mean, I
thought they had some pass rush early in the game.
I thought they made Jackson Dart move around a little bit. Now,
unfortunately when he moved around, he made some plays when
he did it. But I thought farm in Keon White
a little bit, you know, just flashed a little a
(10:05):
little bit of pressure. And I also thought Marte Mapu
was was it was kind of active, you know, a
really nice pass break up knocking a ball loose on
an early play. Not a whole lot else to hold
it you had on that, and at least.
Speaker 8 (10:21):
Not the players that the count.
Speaker 7 (10:23):
You know, I'm just going off who played tonight, but
I didn't even even.
Speaker 8 (10:27):
With who played tonight.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
There were you know, I think Jeremiah Webb was probably
the one guy who stood out that Mike you mentioned him.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
One thing we all sort of hit on was just
finishing this preseason clean and luckily you know, injuries, but
it I mean, there was penalties, There was loose plays.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
That was the big thing that Verbel vocalized.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Coming out of that first half, and it was an issue.
Is there something that you could really pinpoint deuce when
you looked at that, or just overall sort of slop.
Speaker 9 (10:54):
Well, I think you know, we've watched, we watched some
bad offensive football here the last couple of years, and
now you're seeing it with a third string quarterback and
a third string line and like really the last four
receivers standing right now.
Speaker 8 (11:06):
So how much were we expecting of Ben Wooldridge.
Speaker 9 (11:08):
I think, you know, like Kevin said, he's had some good,
some good this summer, but clearly they were putting their
backups out.
Speaker 8 (11:14):
They were kind of ready to pack things up, I think.
Speaker 7 (11:16):
Except that, you know, the first the bulk of the
first half, they had two guys that might be starting,
and Ben Brown and Jared Wilson, you know, as part
of that line.
Speaker 8 (11:27):
Now, I agree with Mike.
Speaker 7 (11:30):
We've seen some bad offensive football in recent years, and
we saw some of that tonight. We had I think
Marcus Bryant lined up in the backfield on a play.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
You know, that kind of just highly preventable mistakes. Those
those self.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
Inflicted penalties that we really haven't seen much of during
the summer, some of those came tonight. I think they
had an off side lining up in the neutral zone
in the first half, so way too many penalties. Certainly,
the defense tonight was just not good. But I'm not
going to get lost in that. Like Evan said, you know,
they've been playing a lot of quarter coverage during the
(12:04):
course of the preseason and things like that.
Speaker 8 (12:06):
That's kind of basic looks that.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
Yeah, I think they'll I think they'll you know, spin
the dial a little bit more than that in the
regular season.
Speaker 8 (12:15):
So I don't want to fixate on that.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
But one of the things that I talked about in
the pregame, I wanted to see the kicking situation. I'm
a little disappointed they didn't go back and forth tonight.
It was really just Borregalis and he had a chance
from forty nine and pushed it wide right, So.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
I mean, in my view, I think Romo has been
the better guy. It's gonna be interesting to see who
ends up.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
Winning that battle.
Speaker 9 (12:37):
Yeah, it seemed a little like they were giving Borgalis
a chance tonight to go out there and own it.
See how he bounced back from that miss. He did
make the extra point. But yeah, it's gonna be really
interesting to seek to see what they do with those guys,
because on one hand, you feel like you can always
kind of find a kicker. But you know, Romo's been
here for a while, so I don't really, you know,
want to just toss him aside. He's probably won the battle.
(12:57):
And it's really hard to say this is our draft pick.
He hasn't been great, but we're just gonna ride with him,
like you got to pick the best guy, and it's
hard to say that it's been Borga.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
My guess is one of those guys will the loser,
will end up on the practice squad, you know, more
than likely.
Speaker 8 (13:12):
I mean, assuming that they can get through waivers.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
But are you assuming that's Borgolis at this point?
Speaker 7 (13:20):
I just don't know. It comes down to do they
want to cut the draft pick?
Speaker 8 (13:24):
Yeah, and I do.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
I know that that sounds you know, well, why won't
you just pick the best guy? Because sometimes teams are
funny like that. They want to make sure they err
on the side of protecting the guy they picked, not
the guy that they inherited.
Speaker 8 (13:37):
So we'll see.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
And to be fair, like you would think that borgollis
Is ceiling is probably higher than Parker Roma's. Parker Roma's
bouncing around the league a little bit. They obviously saw
something in Borgalos to draft him, so you would probably
like to think that he has a higher ceiling. So
maybe you live with some of the growing pains as
a rookie early on, so that he maybe reached that
(14:00):
ceiling later on. But I kind of think Parker Roma's
outkicked them. Yeah, I mean it's not by much, but
it's betty close. But I agree slightly better.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
Yeah, I would give the slight edge to Romo a
bit more consistent. Yeah, uh, you know, I would. I
would fire one up on the bats here, and it's
I don't mean.
Speaker 9 (14:16):
It to be a bad as much as I just
called it the depth, because I think tonight what you
saw was mostly leftovers from previous regimes or guys who
you know aren't quite their guys yet. And the hope
is is you get this program up and running and
you get to your two and three, that you have
a lot of these solid depth guys that were looking
at these guys I remember the past where you're saying,
(14:37):
man's that's a kid I like, I want him to
make it. You know, there aren't a lot of those
guys out there tonight. And I'm not really faulting the
coaches or anybody, just other than this is year one
of a program and you see on the third preseason
game that they don't really have a lot of the
competitive depth that they're really gonna need to build a
program and have the depth to overcome all the injuries
that are inevitably gonna happen during the season.
Speaker 7 (14:59):
Yeah, and this is what you saw the other teams
that the Patriots played the first two weeks. This is
what they played with personnel wise, was their twos and
threes and fours and the Patriots largely played with that tonight.
And you see that, you know you're competitively at a
disadvantage when you do that.
Speaker 8 (15:14):
I agree.
Speaker 7 (15:14):
And one of those guys that I'll point out specifically
is Cold Strange. You know, got a previous regime guy.
I don't think he looks comfortable at center at all.
I think that the snaps have been an issue with him.
I think there was at least one wild one tonight
that Wildridge had a sort of corral. I had a
holding call on first and goal from inside the two.
That's a killer penalty that you know, that's that's just
(15:36):
a killer penalty that's taking points off the board.
Speaker 8 (15:38):
They ended up having to settle for a field goal.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
It looked like he got beat with some some speed
on the inside on a couple of occasions tonight. So
there's a guy who's been around. Now you know, what's
is his fourth year.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
Now you know.
Speaker 8 (15:55):
It's it's time you remember that one.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
That's my question, how long do you keep him around?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
So I'm just gonna lump all of them together on
the bads City, So Cold Strange, Kiden Wallace, all three
of them, I thought struggled tonight, just multiple pressures, penalties,
snaps like Paul mentioned, run stuffs right in their gaps.
I just I was hoping as a group, and I
don't want to single any one of them out because
(16:21):
I don't think that's necessarily fair, but as a group,
I was hoping that they would get one playable offensive
lineman out of all these guys that they've drafted over
the last couple of years on the interior to come
out of the draft for the last three four years,
with Strange in the first round, Sow in the fourth round,
(16:42):
Lane and Robinson in the fourth round, Cadaan Wallace in
the third round, Jake Andrews who's no longer here, who
is somebody brought up to us with that Paula, you
know in someplace else now. They have not been able
to hit on any of these guys. And it's multiple
coaching staffs, it's multiple line coaches, and they have not
been able to develop any of those guys. So when
(17:03):
you start talking about what Deuce is talking about depth
like that's supposed to be the depth Like it's not
necessarily means that those guys need to start, but that
those are the guys that are supposed to be the
top backups and they just haven't been able to hit
on any of those drafts.
Speaker 7 (17:17):
So that like the bigger picture, you know, take away
on a game like tonight, you know, you start to
think about your roster. Obviously on Tuesday you're going to
be down to fifty three, and you know, the three
of us are talking and you know, trying to figure
out how many linemen you take, and you're like, what
could they take ten?
Speaker 8 (17:34):
And then you know Evan's like, she can they get
by with eight?
Speaker 7 (17:37):
Because I don't know if you're thinking to yourself, like
do you really have nine or ten guys that are
worth rostering right now? Again, these are decisions that are
made well above our pay gratees. But I think that
the point is valid. I think some of those guys
that you would have hoped would have at least emerged
as quality insurance, quality backup depth haven't.
Speaker 8 (18:00):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
Robinson Wallace and I began it with's strange, I don't
really think that you feel great about any of them?
Speaker 9 (18:08):
Yeah, I mean I'd carry that right over to the
edge position after Landry and Chase on. It's kind of similar,
like you have key on White is he the great fit.
Is he going to really do what you need him
to do? You don't really know. All of those guys
still remain question marks. So again, I think this is
still part of just these aren't there guys. You know,
when we were back with a regime that had been
(18:28):
here forever. That it is there, guys, and sometimes it's good,
sometimes it's bad. But at least you know that everybody's
been brought in to play in that system and fits
supposedly what they want to do.
Speaker 8 (18:37):
So I think they can get to that point eventually.
Speaker 9 (18:39):
But it's just be a really interesting day on Tuesday
to see, you know, maybe someone like cold Strange. All right,
we're going to close the book on that, that that
whole thing. You know, some of those pieces that are
still hanging around, you don't know quite know how they fit.
We'll see who their stories might come to an end
on Tuesday, though.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
I do want to touch on Jordan Polk. We'll head
to Break and then I see your calls coming in, we.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
See the emails. We will get to those.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
But Polk was a guy that you guys talked about,
had a few penalties there, Evan, would you see from him?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, I thought we were hoping that he was gonna
kind of make a roster tonight or make the push fine,
you know, finalize a push here. Two penalties, both holds
in coverage playing out of the slot.
Speaker 10 (19:17):
Outside of that, I don't.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Think he was very noticeable in a bad way, but
probably not the performance that you know, we were hoping
to see out of him if he was really going
to make a serious case to make the roster. So
for him, though, I would say, you know, it's also
a numbers game like that. That's a deep position at
corner on this team. It's one of the positions that
(19:40):
they do have some solid depth at. So you're four
or five guys deep before you get to Jaalen pull
Jordan Polk excuse me, And I don't know, do they
have to carry six of all six of those guys.
Speaker 10 (19:52):
Probably not. He's probably a practice squad guy.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
But yeah, I would throw up and down, I would
throw cool be minor in that same kind of a
bag tonight a couple of times. You only you only
hurt him once, but I thought he got beat deep
at least three times where where Jalen Hyatt ran by
him and Jalen Hyatt's a guy that's trying to make
a roster. You know, he's certainly not an established NFL player,
(20:19):
so that's that should be a good matchup. Now, he
certainly has more experience than Minor, but he ran right
by him three times.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Jalen Hyatt ran by everybody to
know that's.
Speaker 8 (20:29):
What he does.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Now, he didn't catch him.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
And I do I do fully submit that that's what
Jalen Hyatt does.
Speaker 8 (20:37):
He's a speed He's a straight line speed guy, but
he is there tape. You're trying to make a roster.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
Now, I will say that Minor I thought, bounced back
a little bit and made some plays, also showed some physicality. Again,
this is gonna be one of those things. Do you
want to keep your draft picks? R You know you, Mike,
you made a big deal and I think you're right
about the the old regime guys as opposed to you
a guys.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
Yeah, I think that factors in. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Five passing touchdowns allowed, though I know it's not the
starters A little concerning out gained four thirty one to
one nine.
Speaker 8 (21:09):
Yeah, I'm just gonna plug my ears on that one
and be like, hey, I'll.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
See we want right one got there right, you know.
Speaker 9 (21:15):
Choking aside, Like I mean, we're talking about the quarterback
and you see Tommy DeVito come in and look great.
Speaker 8 (21:19):
I mean he's like their.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
He came in, his first pass was a touchdown.
Speaker 8 (21:23):
I mean, he's Tommy DeVito, gonna get cut? Can we
grab him? I wouldn't be opposed to that.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Well, that's sort of why Italian I started talking about
the backup quarterback position, because like their Giants had two
or three guys that looked better than any of the
Patriots backup quarterbacks. And I say that like seriously. And
so it's just some of these teams, even like Cleveland
has four quarterbacks, they're not going to carry four quarterbacks
most likely. So you just never know if one of
(21:49):
these teams drops a quarterback. Even if you sign a
guy to the practice squad that maybe just to get
a couple of looks at him and on scout team
over the next couple of weeks and see what he's.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Got any more good, bad, injured before we go to break.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
No, I think I'm good.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
I don't think any He seems to be like a
punching bag all the time. But Javon Baker again had
some opportunities. You know, he's playing in a game that
you know, probably he didn't want to be playing in
because you would think as a second year guy he'd
be established. But he needed to play in it and
really didn't make any place.
Speaker 8 (22:26):
You know.
Speaker 7 (22:26):
I think Evan pointed out a miss block on a
on a crack toss. Right, is that that play correct?
Speaker 8 (22:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Run run TfL h O P I blocking down field? Yes,
And he has now caught one of nine passes over
the last two games in the preseason.
Speaker 10 (22:44):
Now, his quarterbacks haven't done him any face now, I
want to.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
Well, he missed his first six targets.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
Yeah, the one he didn't catch tonight was by no
means on him.
Speaker 8 (22:53):
It was a horrendous throw by Wooldridge.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
But again, the numbers numbers, I mean, we're giving Kyle
Williams some slack. What's saying that numbers lie for him
because he's been open and they just haven't gotten it
to him. But I mean one catch in nine targets
that that's tough.
Speaker 9 (23:10):
I think there was one training camp practice where in
like seven on seven he caught like three straight touchdowns
something like that, And I went into in Levens and
had a couple more grabs and like that was the
Javon Baker's coming on moment. And from there there haven't
really been contributions on offense. There's been like some special
team stuff that we highlight as on special teams, but
(23:31):
that's not what's gonna make Javon Baker special. Javon Baker
needs to be a receiver who goes and makes athletic
plays and gets open quick and those things that we've
been hoping for to see from him. His talents, they
haven't really shown through in this new offense this summer.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
So I'm not really sure what's going to happen with
him on Tuesday.
Speaker 9 (23:49):
But it's hard to really bang the desk for him.
He had really one good day in camp.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I feel like, yeah, I mean maybe on special teams,
Like maybe that's how he makes the team. I know
there's been a lot to do about him pushing for
more opportunities on special teams and making plays on special teams.
So if you're going to be a six receiver on
the roster, I guess that's the path. But Deuce has
nailed it as in terms of his production as a receiver.
It just just it hasn't been there.
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Speaker 2 (27:52):
We want to hear from you, so call the hotline
at eighty five to five PATS five hundred or email
the show at podcasts at patreon dot com. Now back
to the Patriots postgame Show presented by DraftKings.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
We're back and it's time to take your calls. Sean
and Vancouver, you've been weighing.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
What do you think of the game?
Speaker 13 (28:15):
Hey, I have a few questions. So one thing I
want to know is about the players that weren't there.
I know, I guess in Chisholm and Williams car Wlliams
were injured. Now were they not there because of the
injury or just because they decided they were already set? Also,
I'm very concerned about the depth that on the line,
(28:37):
both offensive and defensive line scrimmage doesn't seem like a
lot of players step forward tonight or for that. And
the last thing I wanted to say, Nathan, if you're
still listening, Polk the receiver was put on a season
long IR, so he's not part of the fifty three decisions.
Speaker 16 (28:57):
So there you go.
Speaker 13 (28:58):
I'll take it off there.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
Thanks, thanks, Sean.
Speaker 9 (29:02):
Well. I don't think Polk has been officially moved to no,
but we also talked about that at length in the
pregame show.
Speaker 10 (29:10):
What was the first two names that he said?
Speaker 7 (29:13):
So, yes, the guys that didn't play, Yeah, Chisholm and
Williams were hurt.
Speaker 8 (29:19):
That's why they didn't play.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
I don't know was he hasn't practiced that that's why
some of these guys that didn't dress were hurt.
Speaker 8 (29:27):
Yeah, we didn't see Williams at all. Not sure.
Speaker 9 (29:30):
I mean, there were pictures of Chisholm traveling, so we
know he was on the trip. I don't think he's
anything major. But we haven't seen or heard from Williams yet,
so hard to tell. Sean, I don't know exactly. You know,
I think all those guys are that weren't practicing and hurt.
They that's probably why.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
But those guys, you know, most of the guys that
didn't play, it wasn't because like that that are dealing
with injuries. It's not like they're set like they're dealing
with injuries. Why are you going to play a guy
who's hurt? You know, when the preseason. That doesn't like
it wouldn't make much sense to me to have Kyle
(30:05):
Williams and Efton Chisholm on the field tonight.
Speaker 8 (30:08):
If they're not being able to practice during That's.
Speaker 9 (30:10):
Just what make Baker notable, because Baker had misspractice and
seemed like he maybe you know, knew that he needed
to shoot up to show something tonight.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I wonder that Anthony Jennings, I know he had the injury,
but Deuce has been harping about the edge depth and
I don't know what's going on with Keon White in
this coach of staff's mind. You know, he played twenty
nine snaps in this game against Giants' backups, and it
didn't really look like I didn't really think he was
super noticeable, Like he didn't dominate the game by.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Any means, had a play here or there that I
noticed him some penetration, But I agree with you if
I didn't notice some stand out.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
So just with Anthony Jennings, if you're moving on from
an Anthony Jennings again, because of one of these scheme
fit types of things, there goes another player that can
at least play in this league. And we can see that, right,
And so if you're still not sure about where Keon
White fits, are you really releasing or trading Anthony Jennings
(31:06):
and just taking away another layer of Deuce's depth.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
There a lot of these, you know, and I'm just
lumping a lot of players. I know, I know they're
not all the same position, but like you know the
Truman Jones and.
Speaker 8 (31:20):
You know what's Swinson Ponder.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
Elijah Ponder is another one for linebacker Monty Right, Like
a lot of these guys we're hearing, you know, this
guy has a good shot to be on the rush.
This guy's like what if it which one of those
guys is better than Anthony Jennings? And you guys know,
(31:46):
like I've sat here and I've been on the other
side of this telling you, like, I don't see a
ton from Anthony Jennings, but what I do see is
a physical edge setting run stopping kind of an outside linebacker.
Speaker 8 (31:58):
There's some value in that.
Speaker 7 (32:00):
Yeah, what are these guys giving you that that he can't.
Speaker 10 (32:04):
They got that?
Speaker 9 (32:05):
I know, I just I don't know, Yeah, no, I heard,
I think you.
Speaker 7 (32:09):
A whole point was like in the first segment about
the previous regimes, guys yeah, and that's why you wonder
if I don't think that's a way that you should
be knowing you hang on to some of those guys,
but if injuries strike, then you might be forced out
of your comfort zone in terms of your scheme or
whatever that might be. I'll throw another name in there
just that would be interesting to have in this conversation
(32:29):
is Jelani to Vai. Another one of those holdover guys
who kind of fit that old defense maybe a little
bit better, but I still think he has some size
and athleticism to play off the ball that gives him
a little bit of a unique flavor with the group
that they currently have. I wonder if him and Spulaine,
if that's a duo that they would put out there together,
or if they really do have designs on Splaine Ellis
(32:51):
we want two smaller mobile linebackers back there.
Speaker 8 (32:54):
But what's gonna happen for Julini to va.
Speaker 9 (32:56):
I mean, he he's out there like two days for
the summer and then had his cat injury.
Speaker 8 (33:00):
We haven't seen him again. I mean we've seen him
watching I think you saw him in the background a
couple of times.
Speaker 9 (33:05):
But you know, it's all those guys that could definitely
play before, but you know a lot of them have
bad years.
Speaker 8 (33:10):
Last year we're injured, last year's ye're.
Speaker 9 (33:13):
Somewhat down on them, and you don't know exactly what
they are anymore.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
Like what is Kyle Dugger?
Speaker 9 (33:17):
Is he the player that we thought he was going
to be back in twenty one twenty two when he
was first coming on and we felt like he was
on the ep swing or is he this player that
got hurt and has kind of been on the downswing
right now? Same thing, you know, across the board for
those former Belichick players.
Speaker 8 (33:30):
So we'll see what they have in mind.
Speaker 9 (33:32):
It's it's fascinating because on one hand, you could there's
a case people out there could say, well, they don't
really look like they want Kyle Dugger. They don't look
like they really want Keom White. They don't look like
they really you know, need Afredy Jennings in. But at
the same time, like we said, like all those guys
we know can kind of play, They got to figure
it out.
Speaker 7 (33:47):
And I'm fine with it if you if you feel
like you can get value in it elsewhere. In other words,
you can deal these guys, you know, even for modest picks,
but to just cut them, to me, doesn't make a
lot with nothing. And I know Keon White's not White's
gonna be on the team. The other two is we're
talking about, you know, Douggar and Jennings. I would not
(34:09):
be in favor of cutting either one of those guys
if you don't think that they fit. Either find a
way for them to fit, or find a way to
get something for him. I don't think I think they're
too valuable to just cut.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Do you think after tonight, because we talked about Dougar
being one of the goods and I know this was
a game people are saying didn't really matter, would performance
like that be enough for them actually to consider keeping
them or it's more so just the whole pres I.
Speaker 8 (34:35):
Would see this though.
Speaker 9 (34:35):
I don't know if it's necessarily this performance, but it's
the fact that he continues to get the experience and
he plays well, and he's hung with it, and he's
shown some strides.
Speaker 8 (34:44):
It wasn't that he came in and crushed it in
this game and our worries are solid.
Speaker 9 (34:47):
It's just maybe you're seeing signs of growth and that
he's understanding what they want to do. And the pulse
point I think is a big one too. It's not pouting,
you know, not everybody's talking about it.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
Everybody knows.
Speaker 9 (34:58):
Anybody who watches the games as well aware that that
he's not the same stature that he once was in
this defense. So yeah, I think he's got a spot,
but he's I don't know if he's gonna be you know,
part of it right out of the gate, like he
might need to continue to work at it before he
actually breaks into a role on defense.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
I just think there's a difference between these guys aren't
long term fits here because of scheme and all that
kind of stuff, and moving on from them. This offse
this summer because I think I don't think they're prepared
to move on from these guys yet.
Speaker 10 (35:30):
They don't.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
They haven't had enough time under Mike We're able to
build up the depth of the roster to walk away
from NFL players like they just they haven't like Kyle Duggart,
you know, Anthony Jennings, like these guys are NFL players
that yeah, they might you know, you mentioned to Vai
like though they might not fit in this exact defense
and maybe at some point when they draft their edge
(35:52):
guys and their safeties and their linebackers. They can wipe
the slate clean of all those Belichick picks. But right now,
I don't know how you can walk away from those
types of players. I think it's premature to walk away
from players that can play in this league and have
started games in this league and have played at starter level.
(36:13):
So yeah, if Tavia ends up having to play a
linebacker or Jennings has to ends up having to play
at edge rusher, you might need to tweak some things
that you're doing to make it more palpable for them
to be good players. But to just walk away from
those guys and we're gonna, well, you're gonna throw Elijah
Ponder or Truman Jones or one of those players out there,
(36:33):
because uh, you don't.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
Watching that right. And I'm not saying they're gonna do that.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
I think we were not, But I'm not gonna kills
as my boy Felger likes to say, I'm not gonna
kill him for something they haven't done yet.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
But that's what it seems like. We're headache.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
This is a next offseason and beyond kind of problem.
Like eventually there might be a time where they have
the safety depth that they look at Kyle Dugger and
say he's not our type of player for whatever reasons
that they have.
Speaker 10 (36:59):
I just don't know if you can do that right.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
Now, to wait and say.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
Until Tuesday.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
All right, Ted in San Diego? What's going on?
Speaker 17 (37:11):
Oh? Hey everyone? Just an observation I wanted to make
based upon tonight's game, but also the previous two games.
And that's actually I wanted to recognize Alexandra for actually
voicing this opinion earlier tonight, and she's the first person
I've actually heard make this point about the Patriots' offense.
(37:33):
Is that this has been a very heavy run oriented,
five yard pass offense all pre season. And I don't
know how anybody can actually look at any of the
wide receivers. Now we're going to leave out the slot
guys include specifically Chisholm, but whether it's Williams, A Baker
(37:53):
or Pop or anybody else, they have wide, they don't
go downfield, and if they do, maybe it's one's a game.
So I don't really know how anybody can look at
this offense. Their offensive lineman, can they really blow a
pass block when they're gonna throw the ball downfield. I
don't think we know that based upon these preseason games
because we haven't seen it. And I observed even after
(38:16):
the first game, said to my brother, why are they
running so much in the preseason? Can't we see what
these guys can actually block? Can't we see if these
receivers can actually get opened downfield? And I, honestly i've
seen all three games. I haven't obviously, I'm living out here,
so I don't see the practices. But I have no
idea how you can look at these three games and
(38:38):
be able to really gauge how good any of these
players are. I'm not saying that they're necessarily bad, but
this is d way it Josh runs his offense. And
again it's the preseason. You're not going to show the
whole offense. I totally get it, and you don't want
to get either too high or too low again preseason,
But wouldn't you like to see a little bit of
(38:59):
more of the offen going downfield and letting these lineman
block a little bit? That's my observation. But I would
just want to recognize Alexander because I listen to you
guys all the time, and I really haven't heard anybody
make specific point. Maybe you guys have, I just haven't
heard it. But thanks to keeping guys have a great show,
and I'll listened to your comments. Off the year.
Speaker 9 (39:19):
Bank credits to Claudia.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
We do love Alex.
Speaker 8 (39:25):
She's all right.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I'm gonna channel Paul here for a second and just say, like,
whether they do it in the preseason games or not
does not matter to me one bit.
Speaker 10 (39:35):
Like we see it at practice.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Like I'm not telling you that this is going to be,
you know, the seven Patriots and they're going to be
bombs away come Week one. But I think we see
a lot more of what the caller is talking about
in terms of getting a gauge for their downfield passing offense,
the offensive line and pass protection and for better or worse,
And we're gonna say Felger's name.
Speaker 10 (39:57):
Again on the show.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
I guess Felger has been this anti preseason rant about
how bad the product is for better or worse. The
practices that dous and I saw in Minnesota, the commander's
joint practice, like those are the real takeaway type things
from this time of year, at this point in the
NFL calendar.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
And he thought pass protection looks good and not good.
But so that's what I'm saying though, Like I know.
Speaker 10 (40:21):
There was more exposure to it, like there is, we saw.
Speaker 5 (40:24):
More of it, right, But my concern is if you know,
we haven't seen Digs out there really in a game
time scenario, we're gonna throw him out there. He's supposed
to be pseudo number one.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
I guess the.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Pass blocking hasn't really shown us that it could be
great yet. We know we can run block, we know
we can run the ball.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
Okay, great, But.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
To his point, I mean, that's all we're doing, and
we won the first two games doing it. I guess
my point is it is a concern for me because
nobody's really standing out. Like we've talked about Pop Douglas
a bunch of times, but he's not giving us explosive
plays Like I'm a little concerned about the.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
Past, absolutely concern. I'm just not taking it because of
the preseason.
Speaker 11 (41:04):
Ye.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Now to the caller, like I'm not trying to look
down on the collar at all, but he's not watching
practice every day, so.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Let's actually tell them what you saw in practice.
Speaker 7 (41:14):
I would like to see them take I mean I
thought they took some shots downfield in the first game.
Speaker 8 (41:19):
They certainly didn't.
Speaker 7 (41:20):
Really take any tonight at all with Wooldridge, and I
didn't see the Minnesota one, but they they tried to
get Mac Collins downfield a couple of times, I thought
in the first game, and it looked like there were
some times where they were trying to run plays that
were longer developing. And he didn't look like Drake when
Drake was in the game I'm talking about. I don't
really I don't care as much when the other guys
(41:43):
are in, but it didn't look like Drake saw anything downfield.
Now maybe he's missing guys, but I mean, he did
take some shots in the first game, like I thought,
the Giants and I took a handful of shots downfield.
Speaker 8 (41:55):
I do like that in the.
Speaker 7 (41:56):
Preseasons, you know, see if you can stretch the field
a little bit and see how the protection holds up.
But two things that the caller mentioned in Evan kind
of mentioned. One, you're not necessarily going to show everything
that you have. And I do hope I talked about
this on the pregame show on the Sports Hub before
we started. I do have some hope that Josh McDaniels
(42:19):
has sort of evolved and adjusted a little bit to
just the preponderance of short passing game and the running game.
You know, let's see if we can work it downfield
a little bit. But Evan's right about the up and
down nature of the protection in practice, you know as well,
and in the difference between practices and games is you're
(42:42):
not going to get hit in practice the quarterback.
Speaker 8 (42:44):
The quarterback can get hit in a game.
Speaker 7 (42:46):
So maybe that's why they haven't been as willing to
do it now.
Speaker 9 (42:50):
I think it was a good it's a good call
out because I felt and granted I was just glancing
over at the offense on the first day of the vikings,
but it seemed to.
Speaker 10 (42:57):
Me like that was the theme.
Speaker 8 (42:59):
They were like, we're pushing the ball.
Speaker 9 (43:00):
Down the field today because we really haven't done it
at all, and it seemed like, you know, I mean,
I don't know if you agree with that, like, but
I kept looking over and was like, Wow, we've been
complaining for a week about how they can't throw the
ball down the field, and now it's like every time
I look over the field, they're they're you know, but
they were taking their taking.
Speaker 7 (43:15):
The I think Drake was really good. I think Drake
has had way more good practices than bad. But what
I don't know about is the consistent nature of the
past the pass protection.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I understand what everyone's saying, Josh isn't changing the offense.
Speaker 8 (43:32):
I don't think he is, like I'm going to hold
until I see it.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
I'm going to hold him saying it like I know
for I don't know for a fact.
Speaker 6 (43:39):
The pass rush isn't gonna be easy week one.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
I guess I'm just telling you what I'm seeing, and
especially from the drop back passing game, it's the same
offense like that. It's the same stuff, And I think
the bigger concern that I have with it, it's not
necessarily the lack of downfield passing. A lot of Josh's
offense is reading coverage versus progression reads. So the quarterback
(44:03):
is looking and the receivers too, is it man?
Speaker 10 (44:06):
Is its zone? Is it two high?
Speaker 4 (44:07):
Is at one high? And they're reading coverages and that's
where the ball is going, Whereas last year with Alex
van Pelt and some other offenses, they're progression reads where
it's literally is one open, one's not open, onto two
is two open two's not open onto three, and it's
a little bit more simplified in that respect. So last
year he's reading progressions all year long. This year he's
(44:29):
coming in and I'm talking about Drake, and now he's
reading coverage and it's just a different way to process
defenses as a quarterback. So some of the things that
I think you're seeing with Drake may holding the football,
like the clips at Orlovsky was talking about and things
like that, are him still trying to figure out how
to process within this offense. So eventually, I think that
(44:52):
that's going to come along and they're going to get
him where he needs to be. I don't know if
that's going to happen right out of the gate. We'll see,
but I I don't. I don't have like the problems
I guess with the offense itself that some other people do,
because when it's I think the offense is a good offense.
But I do think that there's maybe a learning curve
(45:13):
going on in certain respects.
Speaker 6 (45:16):
Okay, see what William in Philadelphia has to say.
Speaker 8 (45:19):
That's will and.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Hey there, hello, I'm good.
Speaker 7 (45:32):
Game recognizes Wow.
Speaker 8 (45:37):
Okay, I just want it's late.
Speaker 17 (45:41):
I know you're new to the show and when not.
Speaker 13 (45:43):
But I just want to about splot the gentlemen that
you're around, that they're a really good guys and they're
gonna look out for you.
Speaker 6 (45:50):
Oh yeah, they're a good crew, thank you.
Speaker 17 (45:53):
All right? So, oh my god, when I begin with
this seat.
Speaker 13 (46:00):
Well, it would be good right about now. Who idea
was it not to get Joe Toney?
Speaker 17 (46:05):
That would be pretty good right about.
Speaker 13 (46:06):
Man, the office line just worked me a little bit.
Speaker 15 (46:10):
You know.
Speaker 18 (46:10):
And and Jalen Poet, I think he's another step closer
to being another.
Speaker 13 (46:16):
To kill Harry, all right. It's just it's just seems
some of the stay patterns stuff over and over and
that's all. That's all I got for y'all.
Speaker 17 (46:26):
And he does it.
Speaker 8 (46:33):
He knew what he knew.
Speaker 7 (46:33):
I was only teasing with him. I'm glad he took
it that way. Joe Toney, what you know what this
team could really use Joey No, just a solid veteran
left guard to play next to your rookie left tackle.
Speaker 11 (46:47):
Right.
Speaker 7 (46:47):
It would make me feel I think Evan's been talking
about Jared Wilson. I started talking about Jared Wilson in
OTAs when he wasn't even playing. Just the profile of
the athleticism. I think he's going to be a really
good player. I'd feel a lot better if they didn't
have to have two rookies starting next to each other
(47:07):
right away, right out of the shoot. Now, based on
what they have, That's what I'm hoping for, because I
think you limited with Garrett Bradberry in Ben Brown. You know,
I think this upside with Wilson, but they could really
use a guy like Joe Toney who didn't cost that
was a fourth round pick but didn't cost that much.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
But he costs more in terms of the money. And
I know that we know what they have the money
have I we know how this works. Like they yes,
they have cap space, but like all I wanted them
to do was sign like the Morgan.
Speaker 10 (47:42):
Moses of left Cards, right, like, just.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Give me a solid veteran, give me a Garridge to
feel a lot better, Give me a bridge guy that
can play the position for twenty twenty five so that
once they draft Patrick mccar people who they might have
gone after, right that for a name. Yeah, exactly like
this that the tuning of it all. I just kind
(48:04):
of he's an eighteen he's an eighteen million dollar player, right,
So like now you're paying your two starting guards forty
million dollars.
Speaker 8 (48:12):
Yeah, but only for a year.
Speaker 10 (48:13):
I know, but they weren't going to do it, Like
I I.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
It's just one of those things that just bugs me
because I knew they I know they weren't going to
do it.
Speaker 7 (48:20):
So like it's just ya, But you say that ago
and you're right, But why do we have to accept it?
Why do we have to say they're right because they're not.
They weren't going to do it, and we know that.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
I one hundred percent agree with a hundred been on
something that was never going to happen.
Speaker 8 (48:36):
But why is that okay?
Speaker 10 (48:37):
It's not necessarily okay, but we just keep it.
Speaker 7 (48:39):
So let's let's keep bringing up the same switch sports
for a second and see if it's okay with you
that Bill Chisholm has called the plug on the twenty
five twenty six Celtics season.
Speaker 10 (48:49):
Don't do that.
Speaker 7 (48:50):
You're not okay with that? You knew they were going
to do it once Tatum got hurt. There's no chance
you want me to I would like you to.
Speaker 8 (48:56):
Say I don't agree with them.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
I don't agree with their approach that left guard, I
don't necessarily need it.
Speaker 10 (49:02):
I didn't need it to be Joe Toney.
Speaker 8 (49:04):
No, it didn't have to be.
Speaker 7 (49:05):
But you brought up Patrick McCarty. But that would have
been a name. But that would have been a really
good option to me.
Speaker 10 (49:10):
That was very player, I'd say, the best left guard
in football.
Speaker 7 (49:13):
Now, maybe if you wanted to make an argument to me,
why didn't they do it? Maybe Kansas City wouldn't have
wanted to trade him in the conference.
Speaker 10 (49:19):
They didn't do it because of money. We can just
say that.
Speaker 7 (49:21):
No, what I'm saying, maybe Kansas City wouldn't have wanted
to trade him for a fourth round pick to the
Patriots in the conference. Maybe I don't know that you're
being nice, but I'm saying that they should want to
do moves like that. You're not asking them to pay
guards forever that amount of money, but for a year
where you have a second year quarterback and a rookie
(49:42):
left tackle, it would have made some sense to me.
Speaker 8 (49:44):
And then you move on the next year.
Speaker 4 (49:45):
I hear you, But I just ready to say that.
Speaker 10 (49:49):
Weren't going to happen.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Like it's just like I get it, Like they should
you know, there's a million of these, right, million examples,
or we do this and we bring people up, and
we bring players up that have on on to have
success other places that were never going to be here.
So it's just it's it's annoying. Like George Pickens is
the other one that I just they were never trading
for George and they were never drafting George Pickens. They
(50:11):
were never trading for DK mech.
Speaker 8 (50:12):
Why why is that okay?
Speaker 7 (50:14):
Like Pickings, you can make an argument, Mike's been on
this argument for three years.
Speaker 12 (50:18):
What do you mean?
Speaker 8 (50:19):
You know why?
Speaker 4 (50:20):
Like this is Metcalf is not that guy Metcalf plays.
Metcalf is a voisterous person, So what and I don't
digs a cheaper version, Like I just we keep going
on and on about players that they just weren't ever
(50:40):
going to acquire and that's fine.
Speaker 8 (50:41):
Like I just don't understand why that's okay.
Speaker 4 (50:43):
I'm not saying bring up Joe Tony. It's been six
months of talking about Joe Tony. I just he's not
walking through the door.
Speaker 7 (50:52):
Like if he went for the first round pick, I'd say, well,
I understand that they're not in that spot, but for
a fourth round pick.
Speaker 8 (50:58):
I would have done.
Speaker 10 (50:59):
It's almost midnight.
Speaker 6 (51:01):
I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 5 (51:02):
This one's interesting, Christopher Main. If we're comparing Drake made
of Josh Allen, I don't know who did that. If
we want to send to a top quarterback, if we
want him to do that, McDaniel system is exactly what
will limit his ability to get to that level. Being
safe with the ball, making good decisions is not where
May needs to be in progression. Running the ball forty
times a game, running screens every other passing play is
(51:25):
limiting him in his player development.
Speaker 10 (51:28):
That's not what they're doing, and I'm getting annoyed.
Speaker 8 (51:32):
I'm going to get annoyed with Evan send you know,
with you not again?
Speaker 10 (51:37):
I know, I know that's just.
Speaker 7 (51:39):
Brian Table in Buffalo and did exactly what This is
what you're talking about. I agree with Evan. They're not
going to just run the ball forty times every game.
They're going to be a game plan offense, and it's
going to change from week to week and whatnot. But
that's exactly what Josh Allen needed to develop, was to
take the safe throws and protect the football and stop
(52:02):
trying to make the play on every play. That's what
got Josh Allen to where he is was Brian Dable
beating the Bay take the profit.
Speaker 6 (52:14):
He would force it and get picked off.
Speaker 7 (52:16):
That's exactly what Brian Dabele did for Josh Allen. Now
Allen is in a spot where he's I.
Speaker 8 (52:21):
Mean, he still does it occasionally.
Speaker 7 (52:23):
Like two years ago, he threw like sixteen or eighteen interceptions,
right just two years ago.
Speaker 8 (52:29):
I just he still does that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
I get it it Again, I'm not trying trying to
take shots at the listeners, but you guys are only
watching the preseason games. So when they go into a
preseason game like this with Ben Woolridge at quarterback and
they run a bunch of draws and screens, you think
the whole offense is draws and screens. And it's it's
different at practice. Like I'm not saying that it's that
(52:53):
they're again I'm not saying that they're executing like the
Dynasty Patriots did on offense, but the the play calls
and the scripts are different. They're not running draws and screens.
Speaker 8 (53:04):
And I think you're right about that.
Speaker 7 (53:06):
But even if they were, you know, being conservative with
the passing game. I think your Josh Allen thing is
off base. I think that's exactly how they beat the
mistakes out of Josh Allen was to tell him to
stop playing Superman every play. And I think there's a
little bit of that in Drake May that still needs
to be beaten out of him, you know, with the
(53:28):
extending plays and exposing the football and some of the
things that we've seen with the fumbles and whatnot, I
think are very preventable. I don't think I think Evan's right.
I don't think they're going to ask him to throw
screen passes every play. But they're gonna throw a lot
of short stuff. There's gonna be a lot of that.
There's gonna be a lot of shallow crosses, there's gonna
be a lot of you know, option routes, you know,
just just beyond the sticks. They're gonna be asking guys
(53:50):
to pick up first downs after the catch. Chevon Henderson
is going to get a lot of targets, So I
would I would be prepared for that, but.
Speaker 8 (53:59):
It's not going to be exclusively that either. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (54:03):
I get the concern though, but I mean I think
that's you know, you want to take full advantage of
Drake May's skills and that's what he is.
Speaker 8 (54:09):
I love that last year about him not afraid to
uncork one down down the field.
Speaker 9 (54:13):
And you know, the color called in didn't really even
mention Mac Collins, who that you know, that's kind of
the guy that they like to push the ball down
the field too, And we've seen plenty of that in practice.
So but that's the fun part about any in the preseason.
Now we get to get game plans. And they actually
brought up.
Speaker 7 (54:27):
Digs a little while ago too, like, do you think
the offense, you know, the passing game has been bad
all three games, really it hasn't been very effective, But
do you think Diggs might help that a little bit again?
Speaker 5 (54:38):
And he stretches the defense too. It's just another guy
they have. I mean, you look at what he did
with the Texans. There was so much talent on that offense.
And he's still about the ball.
Speaker 9 (54:46):
Think he's going to be the engine, you know, and
that's I don't know if he's the same player that
he once was or that they'll use him the same way,
but I think he's he still looks really good to me, uh,
you know, and I Granted, I haven't seen a lot
of great receivers in my time here working in person
out on those practice fields, but to me, he looks
like he still has it and I think that he's
going to be a big part of what they do.
Speaker 8 (55:06):
Same with Pop Douglas.
Speaker 9 (55:07):
You know, I think he's going to be a big
part of you know, this quick passing game, getting Drake
into a rhythm and you know, then setting it up
so he's able to push the ball down the field.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
I will say, I don't know if it's just Boston Radio,
but they seem to hate on Steph Diggs every time,
like he's lost, he's old, he is, he's that, But
is he really that much worse than when we last
saw him. I understand he's coming off of injury, which
is huge, and I'm curious how much you guys think
that'll impact him. But like I said, I thought he
(55:36):
looked good when he was in Houston.
Speaker 8 (55:38):
I thought he looked good and a lot of the
one on ones on the first day.
Speaker 9 (55:41):
And you know, again, this is all practice and stuff,
but you know that's just what didn't give for me.
Like I'm sitting in there and I look over at
like these one on ones and seven on sevens, and
I'm like, Stefan Diggs is doing whatever he wants over
there right now, And then we kind of came out
of it. He's been really disappointing, and I was like, well,
you know, maybe if you look through it in eleven
on eleven and we're keeping track of the stats and
how many times does he pop up? Sure, but just
(56:03):
looking at him in a bubble, he looks still looks
pretty good to me. Now, what was he still at
that level? How's Josh gonna use him? What's that connection
gonna be?
Speaker 8 (56:09):
Like with Drake?
Speaker 9 (56:10):
It's looked pretty good to me so far, but we
all know once the bullets start flying, anything's possible.
Speaker 10 (56:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (56:16):
He he has these like stretches of practices or like
a handful of reps where he's just like all right, yeah,
like I'm Stefan Diggs. I'm just gonna be the best
player on the field. But then he'll I kind of
disappear for a while. And I wonder if that's just
kind of where he's at in his career. Like, I
don't think that you need Stefan Diggs to take every
eleven on eleven rep, Like he's the guy that's trying
(56:38):
to make the team like some of these other players are.
So he has these periods, moments whatever where he's he
just kind of turns it on and you see what
you need to see out of him. And then he's like, yeah,
you know, I just I just turned that corner around
and caught that pass and now I'm gonna go stand
on the sidelines for a little while.
Speaker 5 (56:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (56:57):
I just say, like, I just love to see Kyle
Williams get back out here and continue like it seemed
like he was starting to build something.
Speaker 8 (57:03):
Last week he got, you know, concussed.
Speaker 9 (57:04):
Unfortunately, we think I hopefully he's okay, because I just
I see him as a real X factor. I think,
you know what you can expect from the other guys.
But if he's able to bring an element of what
we think we were kind of seeing of clearly getting
open off the line, but also separating a little bit downfield,
if they're able to put that element in to compliment
Diggs and Douglas and sprinkle in some booty and a
(57:24):
little bit of mac hollins, you know.
Speaker 7 (57:26):
I agree with you about getting him back out there
because I just haven't seen enough of him.
Speaker 8 (57:30):
With Drake May. Yeah, and that's telling me one of
two things.
Speaker 7 (57:33):
Either they don't think he's ready for that, or he's
been a disappointment. And I want to see what it
looks like, you know. And I would say, to a
lesser extent the same with you, O boy, Chisholm, you know,
can I can I see what it looks like when
he's being covered by ones and playing with ones, Yeah,
to see if he can be part of the offense.
Speaker 6 (57:55):
How do you feel about their spots on the roster
as of right now?
Speaker 7 (57:58):
Oh, Kyle Williams is a lock, I would say, Chisholm,
is you know by all accounts of lock too? I mean,
I I just don't know how many receivers they're going
to take. I don't want to call him a lock
until I know they're going to keep more than five receivers.
But there are those five guys. I don't think is
any chance that it's not going to be Digs, Douglas, Booty, Williams.
Speaker 8 (58:21):
And Hollins right yet.
Speaker 7 (58:25):
I don't see any scenario that those five guys aren't here,
so they keep more than five.
Speaker 8 (58:29):
Chisholm's gotta make it right. He's clearly six right now.
Speaker 4 (58:34):
Yeah, Kyle Williams is the X factor. Like he's the
best downfield receiver that they have. Even the times that
he's flashed in practice, it's been on my go routes
and you know, beating press coverage on the outside on
vertical routes.
Speaker 8 (58:48):
He's been impressive.
Speaker 10 (58:50):
Yeah, Like those are the moments where he is at
his best.
Speaker 8 (58:53):
I want to see more with that. Seems like he
gets a lot of work.
Speaker 9 (58:57):
It's almost like the opposite of Jalen Pop last year,
where it's like he has hasn't gotten a lot of work,
but like you still just think there's something there, whereas
like with Polk, I remember being like there's nothing there.
Speaker 8 (59:05):
But I made that line to you guys and Claudia.
Speaker 7 (59:11):
I was talking during the week on Patriots on filter
and I just said, if we were just looking at it,
you know, in a bubble, who had a better training
camp Jalen Polk last year or Kyle Williams this year.
I think that one hundred observers, one hundred out of
one hundred would say Jalen Polk last year. Now, I
think that Kyle Williams has been asked to do things
that are much more difficult than Polk did last year.
(59:33):
So I think the degree of difficulty is much higher.
He's been asked, like Evan said, he's got to get
off the line and get downfield and make some plays.
Whereas Polk I think has run a lot. You know,
he ran a million shallow crosses last year. Now we
caught them all, caught a million passes in training camp
last year. That's why I would say Polk had a
been the production, right. I mean, I would say that
(59:55):
he had a better camp last year than Williams just
had this year. Now that said, I'll take you guys,
I argue with you guys last year, I just don't
see it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:04):
I'll take Williams any day.
Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
And even though he doesn't know the production, it's.
Speaker 10 (01:00:11):
An eye test thing.
Speaker 8 (01:00:12):
I see him getting open.
Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
He's a more dynamic route runner, and I think when
you put him Kyle Williams pop and digs like that's
the best trio of separators that they've had in years.
If all three of them are playing at a high level.
So I think that's exciting. If Kyle Williams is as
good as as we hope he's going to be. But
(01:00:34):
if you put all three of those guys together. Now
you have a group that really gets open. I don't
know if you have a group of anybody that can
win the ball down the field, and that's probably but.
Speaker 7 (01:00:43):
As you just said that, this is like three man
beaters that they haven't had in years.
Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
They have guys that can truly separate. And then you
add mccollins into that mix. Is somebody with some size
and it's it's there's worse receiver rooms in the NFL,
But it all depends on if Kyle Williams is that guy,
right m.
Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Hm, ceiling could be high. We'll leave it there. Kevin
and Burlington, what's going on?
Speaker 16 (01:01:08):
Thay, guys, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted
to make two points and then to ask you guys
a question. I think the reason why you're seeing a
lot of running and play action in the preseason games
is because that's really the only time there's live tackling.
During joint practices, it's not really live tackling, so you
can't really get an idea of how well you're running
(01:01:30):
the ball. And another point I wanted to make is,
you know, I think you might start seeing with the
McVeigh influence from Thomas Brown. Unlike a game plan specific
regular season case, like if they're going against a defense
that's really man coverage heavy, you might see, you know,
(01:01:52):
some of those big Bay Bunch formations to beat it.
And then just finally I had a question, what do
you guys think are you Are you concerned at all
about having a first time defensive coordinator calling the plays
because it is the brave ol really the defensive mastermind
(01:02:13):
that can really make up for it, because how is
his Tennessee defenses after Dnp's lap after the first couple
of years.
Speaker 6 (01:02:23):
Thanks Thanks Kevin.
Speaker 8 (01:02:26):
It's a lot of questions from midnight.
Speaker 7 (01:02:28):
Yeah, I don't know about enough about the defensive stuff.
You know, whether Terrell Williams is qualified.
Speaker 10 (01:02:35):
I mean, he's definitely qualified.
Speaker 8 (01:02:38):
I mean I don't know if I'm worried about him
calling plays. I don't. I don't.
Speaker 7 (01:02:41):
I don't have enough information to answer that. I disagree
about the running. You know, you can tell plenty how
you're running the ball in practice. You don't know how
many yards you're getting because you don't know how many
tackles you're breaking now, but you know, but you know
when the ball, when the ball gets the contact is
happening at the line of scrimmage or when that contact
is happening five yards downfield.
Speaker 8 (01:03:00):
Yeah, you know how well you're running the ball in practice?
Speaker 9 (01:03:02):
Yeah, I'd say that's something I've kind of learned watching
practices now like I have, I mean being a fan
not watching that, and then you start to get a
sense of it, like ooh, that would have been a run,
you know that, Like you kind of like with the
Patriot plays.
Speaker 8 (01:03:14):
And passing, you're just like physical practice mood.
Speaker 7 (01:03:16):
That was good, you know some Yeah, I think you
you can tell that they're don't They don't run the
ball more in the preseason games for that reason, let's
just put it that way. I do think there might
be something to what the caller, you know, a couple
of callers ago was talking about with the pass protection,
and maybe that's because that that might be something to that.
That might be why they run the ball now tonight.
(01:03:38):
I think they fell behind, they had all their backups
in and they just said, let's let's keep let's run
the ball. They ran the ball, and halfway through the
third quarter was twenty eight to ten, and they pretty
much predominantly ran the ball to run the clock out.
Speaker 9 (01:03:50):
I would say, definitely, this is a good thing to
point out. AV was the screen pass today that's been
a problem for this defense.
Speaker 8 (01:03:58):
Joint practice even tweeted it out and tweeted it out polite.
It's something they got to figure out.
Speaker 9 (01:04:04):
I just I really wonder with week one now and
Ashton genty and you know, if anybody in the Raiders
is paying attention to what's been going on with the
Patriots the screen game, it's just it's been it's.
Speaker 8 (01:04:13):
Been a problem. And talking to.
Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
Those times where they hopefully aren't watching our show anything,
we're because.
Speaker 7 (01:04:23):
I was like, yeah, I was listening to that post game,
so we were like, hey, let's try it.
Speaker 9 (01:04:30):
I mean, I mean, it's just it's I just I
wonder if it's a function of the aggressiveness. But you know,
I've also seen cases where the backside end holds his
ground and reads it and snuffs it out. You know,
it's just that that's what again. But when you started
to get into guys who aren't quite maybe fits for
the scheme at defensive end and aren't quite athletic enough
(01:04:52):
to throw the brakes on and put their foot down
and run the other.
Speaker 8 (01:04:55):
Way to break up the screen pass. You know, that's
where you start to have the depth issues.
Speaker 9 (01:04:59):
So now it's not just the scheme, but it's the
depth and it's the guys that you're trying to have
execute those things. So it's just I'll be interested to
see they talk about versatility.
Speaker 8 (01:05:08):
Nobody wants to talk about the scheme. What does it
look like in week one?
Speaker 9 (01:05:12):
I know what I've been watching them run throughout training
camp and joint practices and some of the vanilla stuff.
Speaker 8 (01:05:17):
They've been doing here in the preseason games.
Speaker 9 (01:05:18):
But you know how much twists are there when we
do get to the regular season, And is there a
plan to say, look, we cannot let ashtraon genty and
brock Bauers eat us alive with little screen passes and
dump offs, because that's what that's what the teams have
been doing to them this preseason.
Speaker 8 (01:05:32):
Haven't successful with it.
Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
I think the point that you brought up about nobody
wants to talk about the defensive scheme is so on
point because like we had then assistant coaches available defensive
coaches earlier this week, and they would not say a
thing about the defense that they're running. And that tells
me that this defense is going to be kind of
(01:05:54):
unique and it's going to kind of be its own thing,
and they don't want to show any cards. And that's
tell to me, Like I I to the caller is
a question about I don't know if it's concerned. I
think it's just unknown. Like Terrell Williams has never called
plays before at this level. He's more than an experienced
and more than do to be a defensive coordinator. I mean,
(01:06:15):
he's been coaching football for forever, So that's not the question.
But it sounds like Terrell Williams is sort of running
the front seven and then.
Speaker 10 (01:06:24):
The safety's coach, Scott Booker midnight.
Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
Scott Booker is kind of running the secondary and then
they kind of come together and they put it together
and that that can work. Like that, there's no reason
why that can't work. But the play calling is not. Again,
it's an unknown. Like when it's third down and certain
downs and distances on third down?
Speaker 10 (01:06:44):
Is he a blitz call play caller? Is he a
coverage guy?
Speaker 8 (01:06:47):
Is you know?
Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Are they gonna spin the dial or are they gonna
be stagnant? Like these different things are just things like
nerds like me will charge and figure out.
Speaker 8 (01:06:56):
Guys about the defense.
Speaker 9 (01:06:57):
Absolutely, I would err on the side of aggression. I
think that's usually the way they're gonna go just right.
Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
But is it aggression with a four man rush? Papers
is it sims? Is it straight up blink?
Speaker 9 (01:07:06):
I would just point to one, you know, the one
play on the first day when they were in the
competitive last period, and it was they got them backed
up third and fifteen, McCarthy broke the pocket, ran fourth
and five. This is the game on the line right here,
and he sent the house and McCarthy just kind of
drop back and just dumped a quick pass off to
Jordison at Jordan Edison for a first down. So you know,
(01:07:26):
it was a small glimpse to me of some of
the all out blitz situations where like, I just think
they're gonna be really aggressive and sometimes it's gonna pay off,
but sometimes they're gonna they're gonna pay five.
Speaker 7 (01:07:35):
I agree with Mike with the aggressive part, and I
also would say when you have a guy like Gonzales
that allows you to do some different things that maybe
some other teams can't. And we haven't had them all summer,
so you haven't got a chance, even in practice to
see what that might look like in a situation like
you just described. I think they're gonna be pretty aggressive
(01:07:56):
with those two corners, knowing that they can lock up. Man,
they're gonna get beat. They're gonna give up some of
those plays because everybody does.
Speaker 8 (01:08:01):
I don't care how.
Speaker 7 (01:08:02):
Good you are, you still give up plays and completions.
But I'd be surprised if they didn't do it aggressively.
Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Yeah, I'm just fascinated to see it. Like I think
the caller said it as a concern, I'm not concerned.
I just want to know, like, what are you running?
And we'll see what they end up doing. But they
weren't a big blitz defense in Tennessee. They were more
of a four man rush defense. But with the way
that defenses are playing now, you know four man rush,
(01:08:30):
you can get to four in different ways. So how
do you get to four? I think is a question.
You know, are they blitzing somebody from the second or
third level, but then they're dropping somebody off the line
of scrimmage and trying to kind of create blitzes by
doing that. Is will be fun to watch and see
the different ways that they get to four because I
think the four is going to be different four, you know,
(01:08:50):
down to down so well.
Speaker 7 (01:08:52):
Kerrell Williams talked a little bit about that too, Like
I think they asked them about his past rushers and
he says, there's a lot of ways to create pressure.
Speaker 8 (01:08:59):
Yeah, you know, talked about some of that stuff.
Speaker 9 (01:09:01):
I don't want to get too deep into like the
you know, the nitty gritty of what they're running. We're
getting nitty, but you know, I mean, like in general terms,
and again this is in the preseason, which could mean nothing.
It's you know, a lot of the cover two snaps
that you have from last year are now cover four snaps.
And you know, you wonder if just part of the
philosophy is going to be we're gonna hang four back
and we're gonna send guys after you and just we're
(01:09:23):
not gonna let you hit deep. And so if you
get the ball out quick, we're gonna come up and tackle.
But we're gonna either we're going to force you.
Speaker 8 (01:09:28):
To get the ball out quick. We're not gonna get
let you sit back in the pocket and beat us deep.
But we'll see how it all comes together. I mean,
it's definitely part of the game.
Speaker 9 (01:09:36):
That's gonna be most fascinating to me a couple of
weeks from Sunday.
Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
Yeah, so they you know, they ran they have been
running a lot more quarters, and they've been running a
lot of creepers, which is when you blitz a guy
that you expect to drop into coverage and then you're
dropping a player that you expect to rush off the
line of scrimmage, and it's a blitz. It creates the
same idea as a blitz, but you're not sacrificing the
numbers in coverage. So instead of it being like a
zone or a hot zone or a blit zone, it's
(01:10:00):
really still seven coverage and four in the rush, but
you're just getting through it differently.
Speaker 10 (01:10:04):
This is very late at night to be talking about this.
Speaker 4 (01:10:07):
I'm trying to like explain it the best way I
called filibus.
Speaker 8 (01:10:12):
So, yeah, so exactly how Mike and I had this
drawn up.
Speaker 5 (01:10:17):
I just it's gonna take over the.
Speaker 8 (01:10:23):
Cover three they ran last year. Talk about that one.
Speaker 4 (01:10:25):
This is, you know, the things that I legitimately do
think about the time I.
Speaker 8 (01:10:31):
Dabble. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
I mean, I'm looking all those things up to I mean,
but yeah, it's uh it'll be fun to see.
Speaker 8 (01:10:37):
I just I mean, I just am excited for just
the defense. That's just be like, we're coming, We're coming
to get you. Good luck. You know you're probably gonna
get us, but man, we're definitely gonna get you too.
Speaker 9 (01:10:45):
So it'll be it'll be fun to watch, I hope,
except when they get caught and everybody's running that way
and then they go.
Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
That way too gap, too gap, terrible.
Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
That is what we hope from our defense. Let's talk
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Speaker 6 (01:11:18):
Forward slash pats or.
Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
With coupon code pa ts and a reminder that the
Patriots pregame show is sponsored by the Massachusetts two fifty campaign,
commemorating a history of possibility.
Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
Playing a revolutionary.
Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
Weekend at Massachusetts two fifty dot Org and I'll save
the bud light for when we're feeling thirsty.
Speaker 8 (01:11:37):
At the very end, it's gonna be.
Speaker 5 (01:11:39):
This show billion event that I see for hanging on
for see hanging on your how you doing? What'd you
think of the game?
Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
Billy?
Speaker 18 (01:11:49):
So we saw Martin Mossu play tonight, which means obviously
he's on the bubble for the roster. If he doesn't
make it as a linebacker, a chance that we might
revert him back to safety.
Speaker 8 (01:12:01):
No like that.
Speaker 10 (01:12:05):
I just yeah, know, I think that this is his
last chance.
Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Like, if he doesn't make it, they they tried the
safety thing, it didn't work out. Now they lett him
try linebacker. If he doesn't make it as a linebacker,
I think that that's another one of those guys that
that experiment.
Speaker 10 (01:12:18):
Is over with.
Speaker 9 (01:12:19):
It's just hard with like I feel now for the
reliability aspect of some of these players like Jawan Baker
Marte has been hurt a lot, and.
Speaker 8 (01:12:27):
You know it's a coaching staff.
Speaker 9 (01:12:28):
It's just you know, availability is your best ability being
able to be out there, and it's just it's hard
to trust Mapu And maybe he did show a little
bit tonight. I mean it's how much do you judge
him quickly because he is kind of in a new position,
a position that a lot of people have been banging.
Speaker 8 (01:12:43):
The table for for a while for him to play.
But I still don't know if he's really a fit.
Speaker 10 (01:12:48):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
I think the role for him was coverage linebacker, special
teams ACE and I don't know if I I thought
he had some good coverage reps tonight, I'm interested to
see how I.
Speaker 8 (01:13:01):
Thought it was.
Speaker 7 (01:13:01):
I thought he was reasonably active in the game. I
do agree with that. I thought he showed up.
Speaker 8 (01:13:05):
I just look at it as I don't know who
they like, but I don't think.
Speaker 7 (01:13:10):
They have any depth at linebacker. And I'm not willing
to say he can't make it because it's splane and
that is it, Jack Gibbons, If it's that spots, yeah,
Jack Gibbons, you know, and then it's Christian Ellis and
Tavai on the other side. Maybe, like I think Mapu's
athleticism should be something that they should they should want
(01:13:34):
to work with.
Speaker 9 (01:13:35):
It's I mean, it's the same conversation we've been having
at the top with the same guys that you know,
maybe quite have them made the push or don't quite
fit and aren't really their guys, but they're only the
only guys you got so and they do have some talent,
so you might just have to bite the bullet, keep
them around and see how it all works out.
Speaker 11 (01:13:51):
You know.
Speaker 7 (01:13:51):
I talked about Kendrick Bourne probably starting on IR something
like that. I could see the same kind of situation
for Tavai, who we really haven't seen since what day one,
had day.
Speaker 8 (01:14:01):
Two one or two? Yeah, he's been out there every day.
Speaker 7 (01:14:05):
We see him at practice every day, but he hasn't
really practiced since July twenty fourth.
Speaker 9 (01:14:10):
Yeah, And I would just say, like even to Otia
is not to read too much into it, but like
to me, it appeared he was in that mix, being
next to Splaine and you.
Speaker 8 (01:14:18):
Know, being a part of it. He wasn't after I.
Speaker 7 (01:14:20):
Thought he was the guy next to next to Splaine
in the in the spring, which.
Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
Is where he belongs. Like when he was that, I
think they called it like the Fixer or something like that.
It was just adjuster playing next to Bentley.
Speaker 10 (01:14:34):
He's not.
Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
When he was playing Bentley's spot, he was exposed a
little bit last year, but when he was able to
play off of like a really good middle linebacker like
Bentley or Splaine. He seemed more comfortable there, kind of
being like the Robin and not the.
Speaker 8 (01:14:47):
Bad making the call right.
Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
So maybe he can do that and still carve out
a role for himself. It's one of those guys, like
we were talking off the top of the show, that
I just don't I think it's too premature to move
on from all of these guys just because they're not
in your vision two to three years from now.
Speaker 10 (01:15:02):
I don't think they have the depth to walk away
from at this point.
Speaker 5 (01:15:09):
Yeah, all right, Adrian in California?
Speaker 8 (01:15:16):
I love you, Adrian. Are you there, Adrian? I don't
think a sleep.
Speaker 6 (01:15:24):
Actually, no, Cali there, are you here with us?
Speaker 8 (01:15:29):
I can't win. No, not amused by your game that
you want to get.
Speaker 6 (01:15:38):
I was about to get to that.
Speaker 8 (01:15:40):
Look at you play, it's almost.
Speaker 6 (01:15:42):
Like, yeah, stop creeping on my computer.
Speaker 5 (01:15:47):
Curtis a little agree or disagree game for you guys.
Speaker 6 (01:15:51):
We'll do we got ten minutes left. Kind of rapid
fire dig starts week one. Agree agree, agree right. Only
reason he wouldn't as if a cl is bothering him.
Speaker 5 (01:16:03):
Right, But that was some major issue that too. Douggart doesn't.
Dougger doesn't get traded, but does get cut.
Speaker 9 (01:16:15):
Question work disagree, Soft disagree, Soft disagree.
Speaker 8 (01:16:19):
I disagree. I just can't see them.
Speaker 9 (01:16:21):
Kind of it's tough, Okay, I would be I wouldn't
be like, oh my god, yeah, be like, well, but
I think he'll make it.
Speaker 6 (01:16:28):
We kind of already touched on this. But Chisholm makes
the fifty three. Yeah, he makes it.
Speaker 7 (01:16:33):
Moses not as strong as they are, But I think
that's crazy.
Speaker 10 (01:16:37):
At some point they.
Speaker 7 (01:16:38):
Have to keep six receivers to do it. I don't
think every team does that.
Speaker 6 (01:16:44):
And you think they need it more at.
Speaker 19 (01:16:45):
Other every team keeps six receivers nowadays the most, particularly
when the sixth can't really play special teams just he's
a I guess a returner option, but he's not really
a special team option.
Speaker 9 (01:16:57):
Oh, little small he played pretty good in the punk
covers team.
Speaker 8 (01:17:01):
He's too small to do that against the NFL player
eight rep though, I am telling you it was amazing.
Speaker 10 (01:17:07):
That's true. There's I talked with such a good rep.
The whole sideline.
Speaker 8 (01:17:12):
It was a Chisholm special teams blocking.
Speaker 10 (01:17:15):
Everybody had a little chest crowd. It really did.
Speaker 8 (01:17:19):
Every were chis everywhere. It was great.
Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
Its way, all right, that's where the show ends. Games over,
I'm kidding, I'm giving more.
Speaker 7 (01:17:34):
You remember that eleven for one eighty eight in twenty
fourteen for Brian Tims in the preseason.
Speaker 8 (01:17:39):
You remember that, right? You know about the fifteen research?
How about the fifteen for twenty fourteen years?
Speaker 7 (01:17:49):
Remember twenty fifteen when Chris Harper had fifteen for one fifty.
Speaker 8 (01:17:54):
I mean that clearly was the start of his illustrious
NFL career.
Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
So you went back and looked up stats from like
five years ago which he watched his six catches, which
which was in one minute cut up for you and
sent it to you.
Speaker 8 (01:18:08):
I didn't go back and look at it. He was
he just an No, I didn't go back and watch these.
They could have been ridiculously easy catches too. I don't
know ideas.
Speaker 7 (01:18:18):
Of course, you remember Austin Cars fourteen for one fifty
three and two tonnies.
Speaker 10 (01:18:22):
Why do you pull back in.
Speaker 8 (01:18:23):
Twenty seventies, guys, Because I'm trying.
Speaker 7 (01:18:25):
I tried to make a point to you guys that
I've seen this guy virtually every preseason.
Speaker 8 (01:18:30):
You guys said not like this.
Speaker 20 (01:18:32):
You guys both are not like this, And I'm like, okay,
well maybe we're teasing you, but in all seriousness though,
like you bring up all these guys, but they're literally like,
in fairness, Paul, they're putting somebody in the Patriots Hall
of Fame next month that was.
Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
This guy, like he literally was this guy like he
had he had a moment in the Eagles preseason game.
Speaker 8 (01:18:50):
Could being extremely disrespectful to that guy. No, I'm like,
anybody could do it, no special.
Speaker 10 (01:18:56):
Saying anybody could do it.
Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
But he did it, Troy Brown did it, Wes Welker
did it, even to an extent, Danny Amondola did it.
Speaker 10 (01:19:04):
So like, but there's literally zero is not.
Speaker 7 (01:19:07):
Literally who dozen others that couldn't. So I'm going to
side with those guys are outliars, But aren't.
Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
Every isn't everybody at an outlier that performs at that level,
like at any position, So like if they're it's not
like there's not a single person that's ever done it.
Speaker 7 (01:19:23):
I think I think I think you when you're talking
about like a five to ten who didn't even play
with limited athleticism being able to excel like Wes Welker did,
that makes an outlier. But like if you're like six
three and run a four to three forty, like, that's
not an outlier if he ends up being a good player.
Speaker 4 (01:19:44):
No, but like the guy that they are all comparing
him to is Amondola, Like, I don't mean things he
runs more like Amondola. McDaniels thinks that he runs more
like Amandola, and Amandola is not. We're not talking about
a guy that that is, Like you know, Wes Welker level,
I just don't know, Like there are guys, there are examples, like, yes,
(01:20:04):
there are examples, like you brought up of a million
guys that did that. I'm getting to watch it. Finally,
he showed me the play when no one covers this
is it's a great scheme, A great job finding the
space in the zone.
Speaker 7 (01:20:20):
Come on, I could have found the space in that zone. Well, now,
I wouldn't have gotten thirty three yards. Admittedly they would
have caught me.
Speaker 4 (01:20:26):
Before there was never any precedent of a receiver like
aft Chis succeeding in the NFL. I'd be with you,
but we we've literally lived it like multiple times, so
it's hard to sit here and say that it's never happened.
Speaker 8 (01:20:39):
I didn't say it never happened. I said it's an outlier.
Speaker 10 (01:20:42):
Yeah, you'd be an outlier here to dream.
Speaker 6 (01:20:47):
I'm a friend of the program.
Speaker 8 (01:20:50):
And if they keep six receivers, he's making the team. Well,
I mean, I agree with you.
Speaker 9 (01:20:55):
I just I would just say if Kyle Wimbs really hurt, though,
he might be the fifth receiver right now, you know
what I mean, Like, if Kyle is out for any
period of time, he might be.
Speaker 8 (01:21:01):
But Kyle Williams is making the team. I know what
I'm just saying. You're gonna but then you're gonna go
into week one with just four receivers, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 10 (01:21:07):
Good point.
Speaker 8 (01:21:08):
No, Well, he if he has to start on I R,
then that's different.
Speaker 10 (01:21:12):
Or he just can't play week It might not be
on I R.
Speaker 7 (01:21:16):
But he can't play week one, then I R is
on the table totally. Because now you're talking about a
concussion that's keeping them out for three weeks.
Speaker 6 (01:21:24):
God jus you into.
Speaker 10 (01:21:30):
I really Hopeisholm is the next Fox Weelker, just just
just for that.
Speaker 8 (01:21:37):
That would be a great story. That would absolutely be
a great story.
Speaker 7 (01:21:40):
Would, and in full disclosure, I'll be as completely honest
and open with you as I possibly could. I didn't
think that Wes Welker was it, and I didn't think
Julian Edeman was it. So those two guys proved me wrong.
Speaker 10 (01:21:55):
Yeah, I think Edelman, you know you were You were there,
so I I'll defer to you.
Speaker 8 (01:22:01):
But I it took out him in a while.
Speaker 4 (01:22:02):
It took at him in a while, and I think
that it probably ultimately will take Chisholm longer than people
will want. Like the fans that saw him in the
preseason are gonna want him to play right away. He's
not gonna play right.
Speaker 7 (01:22:13):
But it took Edelman a while. Like that's a little
different too, Like he had to adjust from playing.
Speaker 10 (01:22:19):
Quarterback right and he had to like you know, Welker
was still here.
Speaker 7 (01:22:22):
No, But like, don't you think it would take longer
for a guy who's never played wide receiver.
Speaker 8 (01:22:27):
This guy's been a wide receiver as all career. I mean,
he was a record center at Eastern Washington, right, And
I think it shouldn't take him as long as that.
Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
All that's what gives me hope for for Chisholm is
that like it's translating, like what he did at Eastern
Washington was very prolific, and then now he's coming here.
Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
Maybe if he was doing what he's doing with Drake May,
I don't think I would be as obstinate.
Speaker 8 (01:22:50):
Is that a good word? A little being and pal
but hey, it's really.
Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
But I.
Speaker 8 (01:23:01):
Chris, Thanks to Chris, I've now seen the highlight pack.
Well you you somehow only glanced over at the one
play you've already seen. No, I'm just you know what,
I'm not going to be overly.
Speaker 7 (01:23:14):
I'm not going to be gushing over like the broken
tackles and stuff, because that's why he's hurt. Like that's
the I need the stuff that Evan's talking about, the
sort of recognizing how to settle in zones and quick
twitch and getting over that.
Speaker 10 (01:23:29):
We can agree if that can if that can happen,
if that.
Speaker 7 (01:23:32):
Can happen on a consistent bit. He's not going to
make a living breaking three tackles again first down.
Speaker 4 (01:23:36):
And the guys he's breaking tackles are an NFL players.
Speaker 10 (01:23:40):
No that we are in lockstep on it.
Speaker 7 (01:23:42):
But if he can do what Evan's talking about and
get you know, the quick breaking off the line of
scrimmage and immediately uncovering.
Speaker 8 (01:23:48):
You can make a living doing that, and that will
prove me wrong looking.
Speaker 6 (01:23:52):
Forward to So you guys agree that there, we agree.
Speaker 10 (01:23:56):
About the broken how it happens.
Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
The broken tackle thing, I think think is a preseason
thing that probably isn't going to translate to regular season.
Speaker 7 (01:24:05):
I'll even say, you know, in terms of that kind
of stuff, Trevion Henderson is the opposite in my mind.
Speaker 8 (01:24:12):
Of like this ship.
Speaker 7 (01:24:13):
This is a guy with all of the measurables, the athleticism,
through the through the roof, right. I don't want to
see him running the way he did in the first
preseason game, like trucking guys on the side and get
out of bounds, get the first down, get out of bounds,
don't take unnecessary hits. You're, you know, a smaller guy.
You're a smaller back who's had some durability issues in college.
(01:24:35):
I'm consistent with this. I don't think you're going to
be making a living trucking linebackers in space if you're
Travion Henderson, and I think he is ridiculously electric, right, Yeah,
So it's the same kind of mindset. It's not because Oh, Paul,
you just don't like after and Chisholm. No, it's nothing
to do with that. Has been as productive as you
(01:24:55):
can laying down Chism has done everything that they've asked
him to do in the summer.
Speaker 8 (01:25:00):
I don't think anybody would argue with you.
Speaker 4 (01:25:02):
I think that I'm really just filibustering at this point
on because I could talk about Chism for another hour.
Speaker 8 (01:25:09):
And a half more minutes.
Speaker 10 (01:25:10):
Yeah, I mean, but it's just you know, we we
we agree on the broken text. I digress.
Speaker 6 (01:25:17):
We can do like a super quick rapid fire. Rest
of these questions. Moses starts thirteen plus games.
Speaker 10 (01:25:25):
I'm gonna say yes. I'm going to say yes to
He's been right on that line the last couple of years.
Speaker 8 (01:25:30):
Yeah, bring and make place to a lot of stuff.
Speaker 6 (01:25:34):
Hunter leads the team and catches this year.
Speaker 8 (01:25:37):
I'm going to disagree.
Speaker 5 (01:25:38):
I'm going to say not this year, just because douglases Yeah.
Speaker 8 (01:25:45):
The third.
Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
I don't know, it sounds like a good Henderson leads
the backs and rush yards this year. Disagree, Yes, explosively
scrimmage yards rushing maybe maybe twenty plus.
Speaker 6 (01:26:01):
Patriots finished second in the division.
Speaker 8 (01:26:03):
Yes, they're going to win I could see that. Disagree
with that too.
Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
Okay, we need a.
Speaker 17 (01:26:13):
The super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (01:26:14):
We're going if they won this one undefeated in the preseason.
Speaker 19 (01:26:18):
They were going to get a billboard in Buffalo the
Perfect Seasons because they season preseason.
Speaker 7 (01:26:25):
You want to get it up there, just like Fred's
Perfect Seasons out how Bill's mafia?
Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
Is it to think that they're like owning us by
getting a billboard that says AFC East Champions?
Speaker 10 (01:26:36):
Oh cool, pathetic?
Speaker 5 (01:26:38):
Patriots average twenty one and a half points per game
this year?
Speaker 10 (01:26:42):
Oh better better.
Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
I hope.
Speaker 8 (01:26:46):
So, man, I mean they got chisel.
Speaker 6 (01:26:49):
The got the defense, finish top twelve in defense.
Speaker 10 (01:26:53):
Ah, that's your side to you, Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 6 (01:26:57):
You think.
Speaker 10 (01:26:59):
Love say total middle of the pack fielding? You say
total yards yards is different?
Speaker 6 (01:27:08):
Top twelve. I'm assuming like I think t v A.
I could see like fifteen.
Speaker 10 (01:27:18):
It's a better way to look at people.
Speaker 8 (01:27:21):
I know what it is.
Speaker 10 (01:27:22):
I know you know what it is.
Speaker 6 (01:27:31):
Finally, the Patriots win ten plus games.
Speaker 8 (01:27:34):
I disagree.
Speaker 10 (01:27:35):
I say eight eightee, I've been feeling lately.
Speaker 8 (01:27:41):
Nine and eight that's the number.
Speaker 5 (01:27:43):
Well, ten would be hard. Five would be easy, just
like bud light, easy to drink easy to enjoy. Bud Light,
the official beer sponsor.
Speaker 6 (01:27:52):
Of the New England Patriots. For evand is Paul.
Speaker 5 (01:27:56):
That was fun, guys, and guess what preseason is and
over Real Football Star. On September seventh, Raiders Patriots one pm.
We will be there pre and post. Thanks for hanging
out with us, Go to sleep.
Speaker 8 (01:28:12):
Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.
If you really want to.
Speaker 9 (01:28:15):
Help us, make sure you like us wherever you get
your podcasts like Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Also make sure
you follow us on the New England Patriots YouTube channel
to see this show and everything else that we do
here at the Patriots.
Speaker 8 (01:28:25):
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Patriots Catch twenty two Well, join Evan Lazar and Alex
Bart every Thursday as they take a deep dive into
the exit, the o's trends and latest New England Patriots
roster moves.
Speaker 10 (01:28:44):
You're not usually into the numbers, Okay, we do this.
Speaker 8 (01:28:47):
I'm into the tangible numbers.
Speaker 10 (01:28:49):
There's tame here. Just give me.
Speaker 4 (01:28:51):
There's the advantage fact you haven't know how to work it.
I'm surprised than you know, an old man over here.
I thought maybe i'd have to show you like a
tutorial or something.
Speaker 8 (01:28:58):
How am I old man dude?
Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Search for Patriots catch twenty two. Anywhere you get your
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