Patriots Unfiltered 1/7: Head Coaching Search, Offseason Outlook, Draft Talk

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Speaker 4 (01:00):
The worlds of Vigeonal podcast. Welcome to Patriots Unfiltered.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
Like if you were a head coach, I mean, I've
known it's a little early in the show here, you know, like,
what what would you say?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
The first thing I do is I'd introduce myself.

Speaker 5 (01:18):
Please allow myself, Yeah, to introduce Here's.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Why I think myself. I'm not talking out of school here,
but no scouting database and you know system was really antiquated.
I was asked to sit in on some meetings to
bring in some of the developers that I had worked
with in the past to bring this up to date.
The scouts were involved. Belichick was in in one of

(01:41):
the meetings and went to about three or four before
Billson wis year and I got kicked out.

Speaker 5 (01:45):
So blame the drafting on Fred.

Speaker 6 (01:49):
I think we maybe need a minor key version of
its on because it was pretty morose in that locker
room today arose.

Speaker 7 (01:54):
I've done it a few times, bluggerworthy.

Speaker 5 (01:57):
Thank you, but I need to know the Fred Kirsch questions,
what's your plan, what's your structure? Who do you have?
You know, what's going to be your staff?

Speaker 4 (02:04):
To look inside your soul? You need a staff, but
you don't.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
You still need an offensive coordinator, Like someone's going to
be the offensive.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
But he's the guy that calls the place.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
Yeah, no, I know, but you still need an offensive
coordinating gulp.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
You you need a guy to help you coordinate the offense.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
This is Patriots Unfiltered.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Presented by Toyota's official website for deal buy a Toyota
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Speaker 4 (02:29):
All right, welcome to Pagers Unfiltered. It is Tuesday here
at Jillette Stadium, and we're still recovering, analyzing, dissecting, digesting
the departure of Girodmeo Sunday night, and now we're getting
into who's next, the searching, the search begins. Uh, and

(02:49):
we're gonna talk about all of that. The hot names
out there who might also be out there besides Ben
Johnson and Vrabel, who are the two big names. Uh,
we'll talk about that. And I also want to get
into this whole Elliott Wolf thing because we have a
lot of people, you know, I'm not gonna lie. We
have a lot of fans who are wondering, you know,

(03:10):
with the with the bad drafts that Robert Kraft talked
about yesterday, do we need some type of restructure or
change going on there? Or like, why aren't there more
questions being asked about that part of the organization And.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
You got a movie badge.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Oh thank you.

Speaker 5 (03:28):
I would just be patient with that, Yeah, because I do.
One of the things that Robert said yesterday that resonated
with me is that the head coach will have a say.

Speaker 8 (03:37):
You know.

Speaker 5 (03:38):
He was asked specifically about personnel play you know, players, coaches,
you know, his staff, and Robert said, yes, he will
have a say, and now he answered players and coaches.
But I took that as you know, all everything is
sort of fluid until they figure out the direction that
they're going to.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Apparently Phil Perry talked to somebody because he came out
today and said that whoever the coach is, if that
coach wants his own person, that coach will be able
to have his own person. And that makes sense. I mean,
you know, right now, uh time is of the essence
and these the main guys, and probably it's Ben Johnson

(04:17):
and Rabel, but there might be a couple others. They've
got leverage, you know, if they want something, they're probably
going to get it. Whether it's with the Patriots or
whatever team they're interviewing with, they're probably gonna get what
they want because it's not like there's a you know,
this huge list of really you know, hot names and

(04:37):
qualified guys that everybody wants. It seems like everybody wants
either Rabel or Ben Johnson, right Am, I right.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
It's the only two names that get a lot of
I mean, there's.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
A lot of other names out there, but the Brian.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
Has been throwing out Robert, I think is interviewing with
Jacksonville today.

Speaker 9 (04:57):
I think we also should mention a coordinator in Detroit.
You know, there's a lot of names, but there's clearly
two front runners for everybody's two apples of everybody's eye
with with Rabel and and Ben Johnson. So it yeah,
you gotta.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Should that be the case? Should should? You know, let's
talk about why. Why do you think these two guys
are the cream of the crop?

Speaker 9 (05:23):
Well, I think it's two different types of personality, and
it depends on what you want in a coach. You know,
Rabel is gonna build a culture. He's gonna come in
here and he's gonna instill a culture, a you know,
sort of code of conduct and in a way of
doing things, and has obviously approven track record in Tennessee.
So that that's sort of the pitch on him. And
Ben Johnson is one of the best offensive mines in

(05:44):
the NFL. And in an offensive league and in a
quarterback league, do you hire the guy that knows how
to call plays and design an offense? And that's just
you know, it's the Kyle Shanahan, it's the Sean McVay,
it's the Matt Lafleur in Green Bay. You know, that's
that's the mod.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
So with another one that I left out of my
little rant earlier.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, So with Rabel, you get the experience as a
head coach. With Johnson, you get the o C, the
hot O C. Yes, but you don't have the head
coach experience of the two. Like does does that? Does
one of them get an edge because of their attributes
their superpower?

Speaker 6 (06:24):
I think your your what's your flavor preference? Yeah, what's
your preference? I can make arguments for both those guys,
I think. I mean, look, I've I've wanted Mike ra Able
to be the successor of Bill Belichick for a while now,
so you know, I don't know if I'm as quite
passionate about that as when I was a fan. Now
I'm I'm a little klane. I was going to introduce
him to me once, but he didn't make it happen.
I was pretty upset about it. But you got the

(06:46):
you got the big what's up?

Speaker 5 (06:47):
But I told you, if the players used to like me, they.

Speaker 7 (06:50):
Used to like you.

Speaker 6 (06:51):
But uh, you know, I think, like Kevin said, there's
a lot of appeal to both guys, and it's just
a question of do you want to take a shot
on vrabel again and give him that second opportunity that
sometimes coaches get that second opportunity they see what they
did wrong. We've talked about him learning some of the
offensive side of the ball. You know, maybe this time
he puts it together kind of like Bill does. He
learns from his mistakes, and you know, but Ben Johnson's

(07:11):
that swing for the fence kind of guy. And I mean,
evn't said exactly like you can design an offense in
this league and you know, you get creative. I mean,
they have certainly a flavor to what they do that
you know, is intriguing and kind of fun. So, uh,
I think either way, if either one of those guys
were the option, I'd be.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
So Sophie, bring in Johnson. The offensive coordinator isn't as
important if you bring in Vrabel.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
But still necessary, not not irrelevant like you no, but.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
In essence, oh, in essence, the offense is Ben Johnson's.
If you bring in Vrabel, you need to get a
really good OC because again, we can't forget our prized
asset right now. Drake May and his future and who
runs that offense twenty twenty five is critical.

Speaker 9 (07:56):
Yeah, I do wonder with Rabel. I would assume that
he wants to be more of that CEO head coach.
So really you're going to have two play callers, you know,
defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator. Those guys are going to be
calling the plays, whereas if you hire Ben Johnson, he's
calling the offense like you're not hiring Ben Johnson and
then giving offensive play calling to somebody else. So it's

(08:16):
gonna be his show offensively. Forrable, I would assume we
would take more of the Belichick approach of being the CEO.
I think, you know, the biggest thing that I look
at with Rabel I worry about is the ceiling of
the Patriots with Mike Rable as their head coach. I
have no doubt that Mike Rabel would bring a professional
level of competence to this organization and would get them

(08:38):
to you know, eight nine wins eventually maybe ten wins
like he did in Tennessee. But is he going to
get them to that next level where.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
He had a playoff he had a Drake May in Tennessee.
Maybe he would have.

Speaker 9 (08:52):
Maybe he would have you know, he had one playoff
run in Tennessee with Ryan Tannehill. Yeah, in twenty nineteen,
they had.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Played as well as anybody in the league when they
were that good. Really the year that they went to
the AC Championship game, go back and look at his numbers,
You had like a one to twenty one passer rating.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
For the season. Yeah, he was very good, pretty good.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
A lot of that was it because credit for Yeah,
there's no question. Yeah. That's another part of it that
people also ignore is how stacked they were with aj
Brown and Derrek Henry on the offense, right, none of
which are here, But he also had two really good
offensive coordinators. Everybody just looks and says, well, yeah, then

(09:33):
when Tannehill sort of, you know, he got a little
older and he slowed down, then he had Malik Willis
and will Levis and they Yeah, but he also didn't
have Arthur Smith anymore, and Lafleur, who was before Arthur Smith.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
I think, yep, right, yeah, so coordinators.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
Yeah, they had two really good offensive coordinators coaching jobs
and they and they were able to get a lot
out of Tannehill. I have no illusions about Ryan Tannehill.
He's not that level of quarterback. They made him look
that good kind of, you know, similar to like Tua
with Mike McDaniel. You know, I don't think Tua is
one of the best quarterbacks in football, but his numbers

(10:11):
would suggest that he is just like Tannehill, that year,
So that would be my concern. You know, can he
find you know, is is it Josh McDaniels, Is he
the offensive coordinator? Is it Tommy who a lot of
people say that he's tight with from Cleveland. I don't
know who that guy is, but will that guy get

(10:32):
the most out of Drake May?

Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (10:33):
Yeah, you know, I just worry if it's Rabel McDaniels,
which seems like a popular ticket right now. That's that's
the sounds of it. It's old school, like it's two
guys that are gonna sort of run the systems that
they've been running for twenty years.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
And but you said, how do you know that? How
do you know that they don't adapt? You know that
Josh McDaniel hasn't been paying attention to, you know, the
modern offense in NFL and can't adapt.

Speaker 9 (10:57):
Allowed to happen. I got to see it to believe it.
I mean, he's did what he did last year with
the Raiders, like it it was just last year. So
like I guess like he could have adapted. Sure, I
guess I'll allow for that. I just I don't imagine
that it will adapt significantly. Like, I don't think that
they're all of a sudden going to come out with
like a Cliff Kingsbury offense with Josh McDaniels as their

(11:18):
offensive coordinator. So you just look at those two, that pairing,
and just in general with Rabel, Yeah, I think he
would be a really good coach. Do I do? I
know that he's a home run head coach higher I
don't know Ben Johnson, I have no idea what he is.
He's kind of a mystery box. But if it hits,
he's going to be the next Shanahan, the next McVeigh.

(11:41):
You know, he's going to be on that level, right,
and they're going to have a real I'm.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
A little with Mike because because I like Mike Rabels
so much, I'm trying to sort of stay impartial, trying
to like make it level for everybody.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
So I was, I.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
Mean, I think Mike Rabel is a really good coach,
and I like him a lot.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
So it's just.

Speaker 6 (12:03):
Like, and I know, I went on, I ran about
why do we have to change everything? But there's also
just something appealing about let's get a fresh of breath hairing,
you know, a bresh of breath, of a brush of
fresh a breath of fresh air, and you know in
the in the in the team, and I mean as
much as Girard was new, it was you know, still
a lot of the same carry over the defensive side
of the ball. You feel like Ben Johnson comes in,

(12:25):
it's not going to be some Patriots retreads coming back.
One more point I just make though, and we've talked
about this with Josh, is that we talked about it
all summer about a VP making the center, makes the
line calls. I mean, Josh puts so much on the quarterback.
So you know, for better or worse, that's Drake May's
year two is you're gonna put him in school with
Josh McDaniels. I mean, it worked pretty well with Mac
Jones out of the gate. You know, maybe it can work,

(12:47):
but I just think that's a significant transition that you're
gonna put Drake.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
So you had a question, you know at the start,
I can't let that go. Go go ahead ahead, no,
go ahead, No, I.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Can't let that go when you say it works so
well with Jo With Mac Jones out of the gate,
they freaking coddled him. He didn't throw into the end
zone until like week six or seven. Like I don't
want that. It h I don't want that. That's to me,
that's not working.

Speaker 7 (13:11):
But they went to the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
I mean they did go to the pay.

Speaker 5 (13:16):
Because of your because I think your offense was very
good and certainly in the second half of the season,
your offense was flat out Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
If that's if that's working well, then I'm not at
but don't care.

Speaker 7 (13:27):
Even won eight games the last two years. I mean
that season was terribly just as terrible.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
I hear you. But they didn't do it because of
quarterback play that first year. But I think Josh proved
that they did it because he didn't make it.

Speaker 6 (13:38):
It would be better without better than.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
Mac Jones, I do so maybe he'd be better with that, not.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
That, not with that type of style, not what they
did that first Why does it have.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
To be the same style. But maybe they did that.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Because that's if he's going to point to that style
is it worked pretty well? And I'm not on board.
I'm not on board now as Fred is seeing my
side of the street here like where I.

Speaker 5 (14:04):
Was Mike and Fred's first start, it was and.

Speaker 9 (14:07):
It was beautiful. I saw some real growth over there.
That was great. If you're going to bring Josh McDaniels back.
I know we're getting way ahead of ourselves, but if
it's rable with Josh McDaniels, then you're talking about two back,
bring the full, bring Yaka Johnson back.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
I'm on board that that are you know we're.

Speaker 9 (14:26):
Going to be under center. Yeah, like we're just that.
That's what I'm worried about. I don't want to go
in that direction. You have a quarterback in Drake May
who can put, you know, the game on his shoulders,
who has the talent to be better than that, to
be better than coddled mac Jones's rookie season. They shouldn't

(14:47):
be that, So I'm I'm willing to allow them to
surprise me. I just I worry about that with Frabel.
I don't want to win game seventeen to fourteen.

Speaker 5 (14:56):
Like you had your first your first question that you
asked us is what would our preference be, like, you know,
sort of the experience coach with with gravitas of you know,
having some success as a head coach, or you know,
the new guy first year, And my preference would be
kind of the new guy, because I think the best

(15:16):
coaches in the league right now are first year of coaches,
but first time.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Coaches yep, but with an offensive background.

Speaker 5 (15:23):
But I need but yes, But I also before I,
I don't want to just blindly say, well, Ben Johnson
is the answer to that question, because I don't know
what Ben Johnson wants to do. I don't know who
he wants to bring. I would like to compare Mike
Rabel with let's just say, for argument's sake, Josh McDaniels
and Patrick Graham. It's just another random defensive coordinator who's available,

(15:48):
you know, Robert Salah, you know, as opposed to Ben
Johnson and guys I don't have no idea who they
are because that's all he has. Right then, maybe I
would lean to Rabel with the experience, and you know,
I think he'll like to Evans point, I think that
that floor kind of rises a little bit. Maybe the
ceiling's not quite as high. But if I could get

(16:09):
Ben Johnson, and Ben Johnson has this clear plan, like
you know, this is not something I've taken lightly. I've
been thinking about being a head coach for the last
three years, and I have the makings of what I
have thought of being my staff. And this guy's going
to run my office mentioned this guy, you know, maybe
a little bit of an experienced guy that we don't
know what connection between Ben Johnson and a defensive coordinator,

(16:32):
then I would rather have that.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah. A lot of people have done unknown Yeah, a
lot of people have done the pieces on you know,
records of first time head coaches, you know, but has
anyone done a piece on second time around coaches and
whether or not they improved or how they improved the
second time around?

Speaker 7 (16:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (16:52):
Probably, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (16:53):
I mean, I guess Andy read would Ptty be a
pretty good one, right, Andy Reid and Bill Belichick?

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Yeah, Belichick, Pete Carroll, Pete.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
Carroll, not his second time, his third time, well.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
Third time, but like he improved. In other words, like
the more you do it, the more you you know,
if you're going to be a good coach, you do learn.
And you know, it's sort of like with the quarterbacks,
ruining a quarterback, well, no, if he's going to be good,
like he'll eventually be good. And maybe it's the same
thing with these coaches. Given the opportunity, if they're if

(17:24):
they're really good coaches, if they're given the opportunity, they
will grow into being a good coach, and it's like what.

Speaker 7 (17:30):
They thought was your odds?

Speaker 5 (17:31):
Maybe yeah, maybe maybe I just looked like, can you
I'm just going to do this exercise with you? We
would We were joking around Mike and Evan and I.
Off the top of your head. Don't there's no right
or wrong answers, and don't give it a whole lot
of thought. But give me, like your five or so,

(17:51):
what you think are the best coaches in the league
right now, right now? So Andy Reid, Andy redou would
be the one that.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
I think you would start with, you know McVeigh. Okay,
I would say, uh, well, you know it's you gotta
throw dan Quinn in there. But I mean, I don't.

Speaker 5 (18:07):
Know like dan Quinn.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
I mean Dan Campbell, Dan Campbell. Okay, no, but who's
the current coach of the Commanders dan Quinn? Dan Quinn.

Speaker 5 (18:15):
Certain they wouldn't put him on the list, but well.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
No, but he's your list. But said, there's no right
or wrong.

Speaker 5 (18:21):
I said, I just said, I broke my own. Guy
who broke my.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
He's done it before and maybe he's learned.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
You intentionally did that. But that's okay, you know, maybe
little intellectual dishonesty there because I think that most people
would like rattle off Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan,
Kevin O'Connell, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
I think those were they finished yet.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
I think those would be the guys that would most
come to mind. But long before Dan Quinn and all that,
and all those guys other than Andy Reid, a first
time head coach.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
No, but I was also thinking about guys who have
done it before and now had another opportunity.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
Dan Quinn is a guy. That's why I said, I
thought you would be in a little intellectually, so I
think I was thinking of a guy.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
I was thinking of the guy the commanders. You know.
You said Dan Campbell, and I said, yeah, that he
would be in the list too. But all those guys
you listed are the good coaches in the NFL.

Speaker 9 (19:09):
Is hard.

Speaker 5 (19:10):
I think people would just hell bent on can't be
another first time It's.

Speaker 9 (19:13):
Such a disingenuous argument because the first time head coach
they just hired was not ready or experienced.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
Enough to take It's not a fair comparison.

Speaker 9 (19:21):
You know, Ben Johnson has been running an offense for
multiple years and has known that he is on this
track for three cycles now, so like he's been planning.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
And I like the fact that he didn't jump last
year when he could have.

Speaker 9 (19:34):
Yeah, I mean he left Washington kind of at the altar.
It was that was very very close to being done
in Washington, but yeah, he went back.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
There's news about him. By the way, Ben Johnson is
going to be intervening with Jacksonville.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Jacksonville speaking of news on him one of your shows
this morning. Uh, they were saying that he the word is,
he's kind of bizarre, like he kind of had.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
I've never I don't think I've ever seen the guy talk.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Yeah, like he has. He interviews weirdly, you know, like
he's a different he's kind of.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
Strange, like Mike McDaniel.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah, yeah, probably, I don't know. I don't know what
I didn't know.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
I don't know. I've never seen him.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
They didn't go to anyone.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
He's a quirky guy.

Speaker 9 (20:21):
I don't think that that's necessarily accurate. But he he
loves ball like he's he's a junkie, Like he's not.
I wouldn't say he's mister personality like I I don't.
He doesn't come across to me. I watch a lot
of his his in the press conferences just because I
like the guy and he doesn't come across as super

(20:41):
personable or or you know, fun, to be honest with you,
like he's as serious ball nowhere as we like to
call him. You know, he's in the factory all the time,
like he's not. He's I think that he instills a
lot of confidence in his players. I don't know if

(21:04):
he's necessarily going to get to the front of the
room and be the raw ra guy that gets the
troops going.

Speaker 5 (21:09):
That's the head coach's job there.

Speaker 9 (21:11):
But I think he puts players in such a position
to succeed that they have a lot of confidence that
their plans, their their you know, playbook, everything is going
to be top, top notch, and so you're going to
get good results.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Well, it's this is going to be fascinating. Where does
Rabel end up, Where does Ben Johnson end up? Who
the Patriots end up with?

Speaker 5 (21:35):
And there's gonna be other guys that we're going to
find out that they're going to interview too. Yeah, but
those are the only two that we know of right now. Yeah,
but there's definitely going to be more guys that.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Are well, there has to be, but there will be anyway.

Speaker 9 (21:46):
Yeah, Yeah, there's a couple of other names that I
think will definitely be of interest. You know, Joe Brady
with Buffalo is maybe a year or two soon. France. Yeah,
he's already getting some buzz and he's one of the
best play designers on the offensive side of the ball
in the league. So another one of these offensive whiz
kids that's going to be a head coach. And I
would just throw out because Elliot Wolf's involvement currently in

(22:08):
this process. Adam Stenovich with Green Bay is their offensive
coordinator under the floor. He is their run game coordinator.
He's responsible for all their running schemes and all things
like that, coordinatefense. And so he's obviously got tied to
the Packers in the Green Bay Way and all that
kind of stuff. And he has been stamped sealed by

(22:31):
Lafloor multiple times saying that this guy is ready to
be He's the game coordinator, he's the offensive coordinator, but
he designs their entire.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Charactercause I was wondering, like if he was just run coordinator,
if bringing if A could hire him as an OC promotion.

Speaker 9 (22:48):
I thought of that and unfortunately no. And I think
one thing about the league rules when it comes to that,
just quickly, if you're not the play caller, I feel
like that should be a designation on the job because
you know, you can't make the lateral movements really hard, right,
But if you're not the play caller, that's a big thing.
And so if you're going to be Adam Stenovich and

(23:09):
you want to get out underneath la Floor's shadow and
go call play someplace to help your resume, you should
be able to do that without having to.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
Get That should be considered a promotion.

Speaker 9 (23:18):
Correct.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah, but it's not to your point yesterday, like you're
an offensive coordinator in name only, right, You're not calling
the place, right?

Speaker 6 (23:26):
Do you guys think that the architect based.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
On neither was Lafleur. But I'm not gonna argue with
you anymore.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
About he's not the architect of the offense.

Speaker 5 (23:34):
Of that offense.

Speaker 9 (23:35):
No, they your offense, well it's the Shanahan Tree offense.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Sure, okay, but within that ye team.

Speaker 9 (23:44):
But their run the play calls, yeah, and their run
game is fantastic and apparently, according to lafort end Of
it used to play offensive line in the NFL. So
according to la Floor, it's all him. I don't know
if that's just him trying to gast him up.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
What do you think of non skilled position guys as
offensive coordinators? I'm against it. I don't want TJ running
my offense. I'm sorry.

Speaker 10 (24:05):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (24:06):
One thing I thought was interesting from that field thing
that was the Elliott Wolf report that you know, would
be kind of open to like Wolf maybe moving around
a little bit. And I just wondered, you know, do
you think that there's a possibility that a GM might come?
And I mean, is that does that not exist?

Speaker 5 (24:19):
Does that's a strong.

Speaker 6 (24:20):
Like an executive vice president of player personnel can exist
with a GM above him? Like is that an easy
kind of swap in or is that?

Speaker 4 (24:27):
I think anything's possible, but it's going to be it's
going to be up to the new new coach.

Speaker 5 (24:32):
I agree with Fred.

Speaker 6 (24:33):
That's why I thought the Phil report was that was
the biggest question we had coming out of Roberts press
conference yesterday, and then immediately to come out and be like, no, no,
it's you know, it's going to be the head coach is
going to have a big input into how the front
office is structured. I think that, you know, calm some
of the masses that were up in arms a little
bit about Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
I mean we've always had that discussion, not just us,
but everybody, like should it be the GM hiring the
coach or the coach having to say over the GM,
you know, like who's more important? I think most of
the time it comes down to the coach, Like very
rarely you have a GM who is so strong that,

(25:09):
like you would say, we got to have this GM
no matter who our coach is.

Speaker 5 (25:14):
I think that And it's funny like that, Yeah, because
there's no way to doing it Around the league, there's
different structures. I mean, there's been a lot the last
twenty four hours about Trent Balke and how somehow he
keeps surviving. Yeah, you know, the coaches keep going. This
is two different places now San Francisco in Jacksonville. Yeah,
the coaches go and he finds a way to stay.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
I think that's kind of rare.

Speaker 9 (25:35):
Yeah, I just wonder, and I don't think that Ben
Johnson would fit this category. But if it is frable,
do you give Rabel power over the roster and not
necessarily full personnel power, Like you're still going to have
an Elliott Wolf figure that's technically putting the board, the
draft board together and doing all the scouting and all
that kind of stuff. But you know, this is this

(25:57):
setup in a lot of places. You know, Kyle Shanahan,
Andy Reid, Pete Carroll was Seattle before he got you know,
fired there, Like those guys technically have control the fifty
three man roster. And maybe that's what the Patriots would
do with Rabel and give him a personnel guy to
kind of do the legwork so.

Speaker 5 (26:14):
That yeah, you know, at the time of the higher
but that's how I would want to set it up.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
If you don't want to give if you were the coach.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
Yeah, well, if I were an organization, if I were Belichick,
like I understand, maybe you don't want the Elichick model
where there's one almighty voice like above everybody no matter what. Okay,
you don't want to have one guy with all the power.
That's the way to me to split the baby, you know,
as you guys do when you're making your picks every
every Thursday. Like, have a guy who's in charge of

(26:43):
the draft and he's he's running the draft and he's
you know, negotiating with free agents and whatnot. He's acquiring
the talent. But you got to let your coach coach
the players, and you got to let your coach decide
who's on the team and who's not.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
And I think I think there has to be somebody
that has final say, but I think almost kind of
it was better back in the day here when Pioli
was here, because Pioli was a strong voice, and obviously
Bill had final say, but I think there were times
where Pioli would emphatically make his case and be able

(27:16):
to sway Bill, and like they said, sometimes we just
decided we're going to table this and move on because
Pioli just wouldn't give in. And so I think it's important,
whoever the head coach is, to have a guy in
personnel that he trusts, whose opinion he values, so they
can have these arguments.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
Yeah, which is why I think it's important that what
Robert said yesterday I think is important. I hope, and
that I hope that is the plan. You know what
the head coach wants. Yeah, he will have input on
on that. Yeah, that's you know, that's the best.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Way to do it. These guys, believe me, in every
team they have arguments, not down drag out arguments. But
as long as everybody's respectful, they value each other's opinion
and there's trust, you can have those arguments and then
move on.

Speaker 7 (28:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (28:06):
You know, it's like Lincoln's cabinet, you know, team of rivals.
He hired a lot of people that went ran against him.
He wanted people with opposing viewpoints to you know, make sure.
I mean that's something we obviously now that you god,
I know, sorry, I'm reading a civil war book right now.

Speaker 9 (28:21):
He's really big into like eighteen hundred.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
I went to university, guy, can you just lower the
intellect a little bit?

Speaker 6 (28:27):
Sorry, I couldn't help. I couldn't help, but it but
it did remind me of that, And I mean, I
think that's you know, good organizational management. You want people
with different point of view, somebody you know, who's going
to push back against you. I think it was one
of the things we talked about with Bill. And you know, when,
like you said, Fred, when Pioli, guys like Poli left,
when you know, probably even into the coaching when Scarneckia left,
and you know, there just wasn't strong personalities to come

(28:48):
up with ideas to push back by all this kind of.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
Thing, because I do think with Poli there was there
was the ultimate amount of pushback, and I think Cassario
pushed back to not to the extent that Pioli did,
and it gradually got you know, as each guy was
in that job and left, I think there was less
and less pushback.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
And you know, Belichick was asked a couple times a
few times about it, do you have enough people around
you that pushed back? And each time he would pause,
you know, I may not. I think I remember him
saying once, well, that was a.

Speaker 6 (29:20):
Big part of the Halberstam book too, is I mean
he really made a point to highlight that, and early
I mean that was you know, written about one to
literary I just got two to David Howards down right,
I know, but that was that was one of my
key takeaways from that That whole book was you know,
because there's so much and I think, you know, we
can probably get into more of a discussion as Belichick
went on, if it became more of just him driving

(29:42):
the bus, But at least in those early years, what
they were looking to highlight were I mean, look, Charlie Romeo,
I mean, just all the experience Brad Seely. I mean,
all those guys were experienced coaches and I and I
also just it makes me think back to when we
were just talking, you know about about the Lions guy,
she's Ben Tim Johnson, that when you get these new coaches,
they're gonna put some new coaches into positions that they

(30:05):
might not be ready.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
Like, it's not to me as easy. Do you want
Ben Johnson or do you want Mike Rabel? Right, And
it's the same thing when Bill came, just those two,
I probably would choose Ben Johnson. But if it's if
it's Mike Rabel and his pro program, right, you're gonna
get Likelick coming in in two thousand and two thousand
and one, where he's got a lot of established coaches.

Speaker 6 (30:27):
Joining the staff, experienced guys, keeping guys around like you know,
Scarnecki and stuff. So it's just interesting two different paths
that they could kind of choose to go. I think
they're going to go Rabel.

Speaker 7 (30:36):
That that settles.

Speaker 5 (30:37):
Like just looking at my shows right now, they're showing
like a little collage of Raabel clips, I just I'm
already envisioning him just sort of going to battle with
us in the press conferences.

Speaker 7 (30:48):
I can't wait.

Speaker 5 (30:50):
It's going to be so like those are the first
time to get snapped out.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
I mean it might even be Ben Johnson too. Like
Ben Johnson, I might have no time for any of
the like.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
Could be with him too. I don't I don't think
I've ever seen Ben Johnson stop. He just gave me laugh.

Speaker 9 (31:09):
There's no doubt that, you know. David Andrews was talking
at his locker yesterday and said someone asked him what
needs to change around here, and he said, we need
to reinstill the winning culture. You know that we've lost
the winning culture. And then so there's some kind of asking.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
You know how you do that? You win?

Speaker 5 (31:27):
Yeah, same way to get fast players.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (31:30):
But I think the important thing that he that he
did point out was that he said a lot of
the guys on the team now haven't won at a
very high level like he did, or like you know,
some of the older veterans have, so a lot of
those guys have never experienced. I know, it's not a
good thing, right, And so you know, with Rabel, I

(31:51):
do think you get that immediately or this is a
coach that has succeeded as a coach as a player,
and you just sort of bring up.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
A good point because you know, when talking about free agency,
obviously our minds go to who will be the star
free agents, who are the impact players you can bring in?
But I think just as importantly is bringing in some
guys at a lower level, but maybe who have won, Yeah,
so they can come in there with that type of
background and you know, talk to the younger guys like, oh,

(32:20):
I've won. You haven't listen to what I'm telling you.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
And those are hard to are hard to get, yeah,
because obviously if there's a guy with it, you know,
maybe maybe a guy who's not going to break the
bank in free agency, a lot of teams would be
interested in him and they and they're all looking for
culture guys, So what is what do you have that's
making you stand out?

Speaker 6 (32:40):
Rabel to me seems like the ultimate football guy respect
like a lot of the players that played under Taylor
Luwan being one, like you. You see how he interacts
with players, and like I know Mayo played too, but
like there's something about Rabel and edge that he has
and also kind of the size he has that I
think just instantly earns the respect to those guys and
I think they all love that he's a ball buster.
They know that he can talk to talk and and

(33:02):
you know, have some fun with them too, and you know,
in a cutting way.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
There's a a clip on YouTube, I believe, and it's
from the Titans, and it's one of their team meetings.
One of the players was was really good at impressions,
and he did an impression of Rabel. Rabel's in the
room and just busting and it was so funny. I
would advise anyone to Yeah, Rabel was cracking up too,

(33:26):
but he had Rabel down perfectly, and all the players
were just falling.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
And he put on the pads and your total heart.
You know, I love, I love, love love.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
I gotta find that again.

Speaker 7 (33:41):
I want to see. We gotta find it. We can
find it.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
It's it's from the Titans. You know, look up like
Titans player, you know, uh, impression of Mike Rabel. It's
hysterical and it's spot on. You know. So the players
there like they knew he was a ball buster, and
they give it and.

Speaker 7 (34:00):
Take it, and you know that's how they how they operate.
And I just I think he brings you.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
Yeah, not a lot of people got away with that him. Yeah,
he was another one.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 7 (34:12):
I wanna bring up a third book. I read the
Brusky book, and I mean Bruskey didn't like him like
Brusk talking about this one that was a real book.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Now this one.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
I actually read this one, I actually, but he didn't
like verb.

Speaker 7 (34:24):
They didn't really along.

Speaker 5 (34:25):
They got along.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Will made fun of Bruski after he had a stroke, so.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
That was the falling out. They got along tremendously well.
And then Rabel there was nothing. That's a perfect example.
There was nothing off limits. Teddy had his stroke and
Rabel used to make fun of him for having a
stroke and didn't you know careful And that caused a
big rift in their relationship for a while. I think

(34:50):
it's since been imagine that.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I found the video for it, but it's got a
lot of f bums and you want to play.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
Oh yeah, we can't do that, Okay, I mean you don't.
We can't do that everywhere.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
I guess not.

Speaker 5 (35:04):
I'm saving you from yourself.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
Okay. I was gonna say we could tell everyone ear muffs,
and then all right, we won't. We won't do that,
but maybe we'll put the link in the newsletter for Alex.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Oh yeah, my god, you can't just find drop bombs us.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
We could do, I know we can. It's really fun.
It's too bad. But if you do want to get
that newsletter, go to Patriots dot com slash pu Newsletter,
sign up for it. You'll get the link. So there
you go.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
It's like, I'm gonna look at that.

Speaker 7 (35:39):
Yeah, it's hystericy too.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
You brought up David Andrews. Sounds like a guy who's
coming back next year.

Speaker 9 (35:46):
Yeah, he said he wants to play through twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 5 (35:48):
He said he's planning on coming until they take his
key card.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Yeah, okay, Well that's that's good because he's a guy
who kind of thought about retiring, wasn't he.

Speaker 9 (35:58):
The injury, Yeah, made him think about it, I think.
But we'll see.

Speaker 6 (36:03):
It's pretty optimistic for a guy when he was having
the surgery, like, this is to give me a chance
to yeah back right.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
So so let me ask you. You know, we're gonna
get down to the offensive rabbit hole. Offensive line rabbit
hole here we do. So let's just say David Andrews
comes back, he's healthy, he's your center. Yeah, cold strange
goes to a guard yep, and when you still under contract. Yeah,
are we now only filling too Well.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
That's what your hope is, Well, that's what I'm asking.

Speaker 9 (36:28):
Yeah, So you know we've had it's interesting conversation about
left guard. I mean, right you got to keep on
one who at right guard and stop messing with it
like he's a right guard.

Speaker 7 (36:37):
You know you paid him at it totally.

Speaker 9 (36:38):
You paid him. It's fine, You're gonna have an expensive
right guard. It is what it is. Left guard is
a position that between Laden Robinson and Cole Strange. You
should be able to fill that internally. You should not
have to spend more resources to go out and spend
more money or draft capital on a guard. You know
a lot of Trey Smith is a is a name

(36:58):
from the Chiefs that gets kicked around a lot because
he's gonna be one of the top free agents. I'm
not paying two guards forty million dollars combined. That's to
me crazy. So yeah, I think in theory you hope
that you're filling the tackle spots. I'm not ready to
put Kyden Wallace in any sort of starting position yet,
so I think you're you're really thinking about both tackle spots.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (37:19):
I mean, I'd like an honest assessment, and I'm not
the one to do it. Is how good is David
anders falling off? Is he still at the top of
his and he's still like, you know, And because in
that regard, I'm not sure. I'm really not sure, And
I might say, let's keep Cole Strange at center and
maybe this is kind of more of a competition thing,
and maybe we get to camp and David Andrews realizes

(37:40):
my shoulders aren't quite there yet, or you know, I
know he was hurt this year, but some of the
film that he put up was was you.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
Know, I agree with you in that he might not
physically be able to do it. I mean, it's it's easy.
Right now, he's probably feeling a little bit better, and
it's easy to just say, Okay, I'm gonna pencil him
in at center. I do think that they need to
figure out first of all, they can't go into another
season with no backup center. Okay, is Ben Brown the

(38:06):
backup center?

Speaker 7 (38:07):
Exclusive rights free agent? I'd grab him for camp.

Speaker 5 (38:11):
Do they need to do more than that? I would
say yes. So to Mike's point, it's easy to say
David Andrews is the center, col strangers the guard, but
you still need some more options because I didn't see
anything on the rookies last year to say like, oh,
we don't have to worry about it because we have
Yeah Robinson.

Speaker 6 (38:29):
And it seemed like though the whole coaching staff was
talking about Cole strange is like we see him as
a center.

Speaker 7 (38:34):
Like I just wonder.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
I know a new coaching staff might be coming in,
but can he still play guard? Do teams, you know,
do they still think he can be that guy?

Speaker 9 (38:42):
I'm with you on David Andrews. I don't. I think
you could hope that he's going to come back and
be David Andrews. But I thought that there was a
little bit of a drop off already hitting in twenty three,
and then in twenty four at the beginning of the
year there was there's that drop off, especially in past
protection still exist and then the injury happens. I don't
think that it's crazy to say, what's our contingency point?

Speaker 4 (39:05):
So let me ask you a question, other than the
actual snapping of the ball, what would make a coach
say about a guard, I see him as a center.

Speaker 9 (39:12):
It has to do a lot I think with you know,
the ability to block guys right over you. So at center,
you're a lot of the time you're uncovered on the
line of scrimmage, so you're not going to have somebody
that's right over you on the line, whereas at guard
you do, so those those car crashes happen quickly. If
he doesn't have the play strength to move those guys,
then it's harder to play guard than it is to

(39:33):
play center. Usually you can get away with being a
little bit more undersized in a thinner sense.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
Yeah, but if you're a guy that doesn't have the
play strength, then all of a sudden, if I'm a
defensive coordinator, I'm lining up a guy over you because
you don't have play strength.

Speaker 9 (39:47):
Yeah, I mean that that would be the smart thing
to do, if you're like a Bill Belichick game planner, right,
you would do something like that. But a lot of
teams play fronts where they're shaded or they're playing overfronts
where they don't have somebody directly over the center, like
a nose tackle, like a Vince Wilfork, you know type
nose tackles, So that position, the nose tackle straight up
zero technique doesn't exist as much in the league as

(40:08):
it did ten to fifteen years ago. A lot of
teams now put guys in the gaps to try to
knife into the line of scrimmage instead. So you would
think in theory that playing center it would be easier
in terms of making up for the lack of play
strength or mass on his frame.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
Would it be fair to say that the difference between
playing centering guard is smaller than the difference between playing
guard and tackle. Oh, I would say, in a difference
in what respect, like it's harder to you know, to
go from guard to tackle than it would be from
guard to center.

Speaker 9 (40:38):
Yeah, I think the I would say, yes, you know,
the biggest difference obviously is just the space that you're blocking.
With right I tackle, you're in a lot more space,
and there's a lot more space between you and the
in the rusher most of the time as well, so
you're kind of dancing out there, whereas at guard and
centered in the interior, those things happen really really quickly.

Speaker 5 (40:57):
I would also say you're dealing with much better.

Speaker 11 (40:59):
Athletes for the most outside a report, We've got a
report out there.

Speaker 6 (41:04):
Byron Leftwich to interview for Patriots.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
I haven't heard in a while former quarterbacks Tampa.

Speaker 9 (41:15):
I don't think he's I think he's out of coaching
right now. Okay, so that one can happen right away,
which might be part of it.

Speaker 7 (41:24):
Okay, moving quick.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
All right? Eight five five pass five hundred. Is the
TPX Hutline podcast at Patriots dot com. Is the email address.
Let's open up the phones. We'll start with Patty and Agawam.
What's up, Patty?

Speaker 12 (41:41):
Take it afternoon, gentlemen. I just wanted to go over
a couple of things. I did have a rant that
I wanted to call in on the postgame show about Mayo,
but I'm not going to really touch on that other
than like I think you know, the right move was made,
and I felt like if if they brought him back,
just personally, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings personally me

(42:04):
as a fan, I felt like it would have been
insulted by intelligence as a fan if Craft would have
brought him back. And I was all on board after
like until the until the bye week. But I heard
Pill Perry talk yesterday because I heard you guys bring
up like if if Brable does come, is they're going
to bring his own personnel guy Elliott Wolf is plated
to be on until you know, the end the next

(42:25):
season when his contract runs out. But Perry said something
about possibly Brave will bring in one of his guys,
but just moving Ellie Wolf into a different role. And
I wanted to see what you guys thought about that,
and I wanted to ask you guys, you hope that
we keep guys like probably not gonna happen, but like
Brian Belichick Pellegrino, I don't want to go anywhere, and

(42:48):
maybe T. C. McCartney too, if they're going to clear
house as far as the coordinators go. That's all I got.
I'll take it off there, guys.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
Okay, thanks Patty.

Speaker 7 (42:55):
That's tough.

Speaker 6 (42:56):
I mean, I also thought with the Perry report, he
hit on what we talked about yesterday was that Elliott
said we were going to implement a new scouting system,
but that they really didn't have a chance to fully
implement it till this year and this cycle, so you
didn't really see the full fruits of the labor of
you know, what they were trying to change in that regard.
So but I like that. I just like the report
that there's flexibility there. I like Elliott Wolf. I know

(43:16):
he didn't have a great first year, but I think
he's got the pedigree, he's got the experience, he's got
the understanding. I think he's respected around the league. Not
a great first year, no question, but we'll see. Well,
the new coaching staff maybe that changes a little bit,
and he's got a little bit of an interstitial year
to you know, figure out where his role is. But
I think it's a good message to send, like he
doesn't eliminate other people from coming in, being above him,

(43:37):
moving him around, But I like keeping him around.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
Well, I think again, it's gonna be up to the
new head coach.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
I want a complete change.

Speaker 6 (43:45):
You think he you think he can be completely out too.
I mean, could the new coach can be like, yeah,
that's great, No he's gone.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
Yeah I don't Yeah, I don't really have I mean,
I'm not gonna cherry pick every single guy because Fred
says this all the time, we don't know. I want
everybody gone. I want I want the new coach to
come in and hopefully have better options. Yeah, because I
don't think any element of the team was good last year,
So I don't really need to see anybody come back.

(44:11):
And that's not fair. That's a blanket statement.

Speaker 9 (44:13):
It's completely unfair, unfair though, I mean, the proof is
in the pudding. I think the biggest thing, though, is
that he went into that last offseason preaching the Packer
way of draft, develop up and patients and basically tried
to execute that. But you knew that that was going
to be a multi year process. So as much as
you can sit here and say, let's clean house, you

(44:35):
know they didn't go out and do what everybody wanted
them to do necessarily. And I think some of that
had to do with the fact that they wanted to
draft and play those young players and try to develop
from within, just like the Packers used to do. Now
it didn't work, at least for this season.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
So but but you now you start getting into the
different layers here. Okay, So the Packag way is draft
and develop, who develops the assistant coaches, who's picking the
assistant coaches? The coach because Elliott Wolf isn't, so like,
you have to work together in order to have that

(45:12):
pack away. Whoever's picking the assistant coaches, they have to
do it right or else it just doesn't work.

Speaker 9 (45:17):
You can't develop, Yeah, both of receivers, even a guy
like Leyden Robinson, And like, I don't want to put
a ton of stock into this tape against the Bills
on Sunday, but I thought it was rough for him
in the.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Real I thought you were going to go the other
way that you were saying. I don't want to put
a lot of stocking because I know he struggled in
a lot of these games since he got back in
the starting line.

Speaker 9 (45:39):
I just don't see it. I think he's got play strength,
I think he's got effort. I think he's got finished
But in terms of technique, he's got a long long
way to go before he's like a solid starter in
the NFL. And they had That's a guy that they
had healthy all season long to try to work with
with Scott Peters and that staff and develop, and I
just it's it's fundamental. So it's not necessarily that he

(46:01):
doesn't have the ability physically to be a starter in
this league. It's hand technique, it's you know, footwork, things
like that that are just not there.

Speaker 5 (46:09):
I knew he would struggle in past protection at times.
Talking to Steve Dazio doing his post draft work and
when we did the you know, talking to his coaches,
he thought he would be really close, pretty close to
a play and play kind of guy in the run
game though, and I haven't seen that kind of consistency now.

(46:30):
I wonder if that has something to do with the
stuff that Evan talks about all the time with you know,
the gap scheme as opposed to the zone schemes, and
maybe he's not as well, you know, suited for one
over the other. And maybe the switches back and forth
have heard him because I thought he would be sort
of a road grading kind of guard, and I don't
think we've seen that.

Speaker 6 (46:49):
That's one of the interesting things to me, both on
both sides of the ball, is just new regime comes in.
We've talked about it all season long. A lot of
these guys on both sides of the ball, they kind
of straddle the fence of these two different kind of
philosophies of you know, schematically both offense and defensive side
of the ball.

Speaker 7 (47:03):
So, you know, does a new person.

Speaker 6 (47:05):
Come in and just say, all right, all the you know,
all the zone blockers they're gone, or you know, we
go on the defensive side of the ball.

Speaker 7 (47:11):
Our two gappers are gone. You know, like that's just examples.

Speaker 6 (47:14):
But I just I wonder new guy come in and
all of a sudden, we're going to see some significant changes,
maybe that you're not expecting right now. But just because
this guy comes in, he knows what he wants. Ben
Johnson knows what he wants, knows these guys aren't fit
what he wants, and he needs to move on.

Speaker 9 (47:27):
It's a great point because, especially on the offensive line,
I thought both Kayden Wallace and Laden Robinson fit more
of a downhill gap scheme, you know, bigger, thicker guys
that could get downhill, and then they were trying to
implement a zone scheme. And I remember talking to Jim
Nagy from the Senior Bowl being like, is Leyden Robinson
really a fit for what they're trying to do And
he was like, you know, he can do it. And

(47:48):
I was like, that's not optimistic, so.

Speaker 5 (47:51):
Like it was just that's really bad from him.

Speaker 9 (47:53):
Yeah, So it was like kind of a weird combination.
I like, Leyden Robinson to me, feels like an old
school Belichick guard, like kind of right, you know, smash
mouth football. That's not zone like zone. You need athletes
you need cold strangers, not Layden Robinson's.

Speaker 5 (48:10):
So I would just say, you know, with the draft itself,
you know, we talked a lot about you know, it
doesn't look great. I would still hold out hope for
those two offensive linemen because I do think offensive linemen
don't always hit the ground running. You know, We've seen
a lot of guys sort of struggle. We've seen a
lot of left tackles start on the right side because

(48:31):
they're not quite ready for the left side. I've seen
a lot of different combinations of that, and I just
would say with those two guys, they got their feet wet.
It wasn't great for either one of them, more so
Robinson because Wallace was hurt for and he also had
a significant injury, missed a lot of time. I think
you're probably fair if you're saying, like, jeez, you know,

(48:52):
Polk and Baker don't look great, that's probably fair because
I think it's easier to make an impact at that spot.
Sometimes the offensive line takes a little while. I wouldn't
give up on those.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
And I would say like, once you get to the pros,
veterans have tricks and caginess that they can make an
offensive lineman of a rookie look bad because they just
have things that you just need to learn from experience.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
Also, wouldn't discount the absence of David Andrews to help. Yeah,
sort of in the middle sp communication, especially for Robinson.

Speaker 9 (49:23):
Yeah, can we go back to this bar and left
which thing for a second. Yeah, sure, because this is uh,
this to me like perks up my intennas a little
bit because you can interview in person immediately if the
person is not employed by a team. That's how Rabel
is able to go around and start interviewing already. You
have to check off the two interviews with Rooney rule candidates,

(49:45):
minority or women candidates. You have to have two of them.
You have to have them in person. So he was
hanging out. I'm just connecting, doc h. If you have
Byron Leftwich in for an in person interview, you have
another minority a candidate in for an in person interview.
Later this week, you talk to Ben Johnson, you talk
to Mike Rabel. You could have Rabel as your head

(50:06):
coach by next week. Yeah, you know, and I that's
just my opinion. I'm just but when you look at
these things, that's that always perks your ears up when
they have a guy that hasn't been coaching in two years,
all of a sudden he suddenly pops up with an
head coaching interview.

Speaker 7 (50:22):
He's already on the plane right now.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Yeah, yeah, might have been here anyway, just visiting stop in. Yeah,
Joe's in New Hampshire. Joe Joe good.

Speaker 10 (50:37):
All right. So I called in last week saying I
didn't want Brabel, which I've I've changed my position a
little bit. I still prefer Ben Johnson, even though he
was mean in a middle school play.

Speaker 5 (50:51):
We got to report today that's not been confirmed.

Speaker 10 (50:56):
Even the hearing this news of left Wick coming in
for an interview, it like an't said. It kind of
purks up my ears as well, because maybe if Rabel's
hired as a head coach, maybe you get left which
is the O C, which I think has some potential there.
I still would rather have an offensive guy as a
head coach, just because I feel like the league is

(51:18):
trending in offense. We have this young quarterback who should
be really attractive to guys like Ben Johnson, Bobby Slow,
like other offensive coordinators around the league. I just kind
of want to get a little bit of your thoughts
as preferring offensive or defensive head coach and the idea
of left which may be coming in more so to

(51:40):
be the offensive coordinator if Rabel's the choice, and I'll
take it off there. Thanks guys.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
Thanks.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
Yeah, I mean, I like, I get it. It's an
offensive league and that's what's sexy and sells the tickets
and gets people butts in seats. I think it's just
a special situation though right now with Vrabel, where he's
such a unique guide to this organization that doesn't come
around very often. I mean, he's, you know, really the
one person that came out of the dynasty that's been
successful in the coaching ranks. I know he's not part
of the Belichick tree, but he was a Belichick player,

(52:10):
so I think that's what makes him unique to me,
and that's what's intriguing. But I think all the points
that we've made about then you're gonna have to have
a good plan and a good system for your offense
so that if you have a great year, and which
will be great of course, the offensive coordinator gets a
chance to leave, you've got somebody in the pipeline, which
I mean verbel already had some experience with that, right
with with Lafleur and Arthur Smith, so that that maybe
is encouraging.

Speaker 7 (52:30):
But I just think rabel is unique.

Speaker 6 (52:31):
I don't think I'd be actively pursuing defensive coaches.

Speaker 7 (52:35):
But he is what he is. I think he's you know,
he can't he can't replace He's mic.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
I mean, one of the things that Belichick did successfully
early on was he had he set up a pipeline internally,
you know, like there was a succession plan for almost
every high level coaching position. Now, eventually the churn got
too much.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
I was too fast.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
It was too fast later on, but there was always
someone in waiting.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Like they had guys like Dabele and McDaniels as coaching
assistants when it started, and it wasn't until two thousand
and five that you needed to started to tap into.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
That, right they had a chance to learn, whereas.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
Like McDaniels, Leaves and the guys that were tapped to
replace them had been there for like a year or two,
you know, so you really didn't have you know, like
the Nick Kayley's of the world, you know, going back now,
you know, those kinds of coaching assistant Eric Mangini. They
Eric Mangini was there to replace Romeo. He had been
around since the beginning of two thousand, so I think

(53:36):
when it started to recycle faster, there was less time
for those coaching assistants to sort of get their feet wet,
and I think that's they weren't ready yet.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
I just thought of something a little different though. It
was like, I mean, is it too much to hope
that the quarterback developed so well that it really doesn't
matter all that much. I mean it's like, are we
all I mean much to hope? Yeah, Well, that was
about to make the point of how lucky they were
to have Josh McDaniels in two thousand and five. And
you know, but at that point, do you give Josh
McDaniel's credit for five or six or seven?

Speaker 5 (54:06):
Totally get your point, but yeah, I think it's too
much gas for that.

Speaker 6 (54:10):
But there are quarterbacks out there like Patrick Mahomes, like
doesn't really matter who is offensive.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
Again, but I would say, yes, it's too much gas
for that, right, I think that I want quarterback, so
it's more likely going to be like Sam Donald, he
needs some help. He has the ability, but he's going
to need some help.

Speaker 9 (54:26):
The example is obviously you know Josh Allen with the
Bills where Dable leaves.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
And he's coordinated.

Speaker 9 (54:35):
Yes, they did strike out at first with Ken Dorsey
and then they get Joe Brady in there. Now they're
a wagon again. So he was mostly quarterback or o
see proof you know didn't go great with Dorsey.

Speaker 5 (54:47):
Brady, he was still pretty good with Yes, Dorsey stunk
and right by the way, I lost another joke.

Speaker 9 (54:52):
Yeah, but that's what you know three four years down
the line. So I think the only thing if you
hire Rabel to me is that when you hire the
offensive coordinator, you can hire McDaniels. Soon's not going anywhere, right, Like,
that's one option. But if you do want to hire
somebody that's on the track to be a head coach,
you kind of need to get a little bit of
an assurance that he's going to be here for two
to three years. Like I don't know if you can

(55:13):
make that a handshake deal or whatever, but you don't
want it to be every single year.

Speaker 5 (55:17):
And to your point, I like the way you think
hopefully you know four is like okay.

Speaker 6 (55:24):
Like I said, well, if I tell you how I
came up with it because I was thinking of like, well,
it's pretty lucky to head, and then I started thinking,
I'm like, if I right now say that, if I
give Josh McDaniels too much credit right here, this one's
gonna jump down my throat. And I was like, well no,
but like, I mean that's you know, I mean, look,
there's only one Trom Brady, and there's only a handful
of quarterbacks probably in league history. They're truly offensive coordinator proof.
But I do think that it's you know, it's it's

(55:45):
not too much to hope that Drake may if he
has a really good couple of years.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
Yes, is it wouldn't have been as good if Charlie
Weiss left after the first Super Bowl and all yeah, yeah, yeah,
and McDaniels took over, you know, two years removed from
being a coaching assistant and Brady is really just becoming
Tom Brady, right I think it wouldn't have been as
good right away now now Brady's greatness, I think would
have I.

Speaker 6 (56:08):
Do, I mean, I do give Josh credit for seven
of putting that together, you know, like, I mean, we
knew Tom was great, but he really adjusted.

Speaker 7 (56:16):
Things and came up with you know some good stuff,
Randy Moss.

Speaker 5 (56:20):
What do you want to Brady credit for?

Speaker 4 (56:22):
All right, we're gonna take up break Paul's foods here,
he said. Now that what we're getting ready for a
new regime. He's gonna start eating again. Is that what
you know?

Speaker 5 (56:30):
I was very longry.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
We're gonna take a break. When we come back, more
calls and emails. Maybe we'll talk a little bit about
shared Vision. We'll do that when we come back.

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Speaker 8 (57:40):
I'm going to be very brief here and say this
whole situation is on me. I feel terrible for Jerrod
because I put him in an untenable situation. I know
that he has all the tools as a head coach

(58:02):
to be successful in this league. He just needed more
time before taking the job. In the end, I'm a
fan of this team first, and now I have to
go out and find a coach who can guess get

(58:22):
us back to the playoffs and hopefully championships. We're open
for questions.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
Robert, just when was the decision made in your mind?

Speaker 15 (58:40):
When was it that you felt you needed to let
him go.

Speaker 8 (58:44):
This whole situation evolved, but I'd say over the last
month I went back and forth, and I don't know.
In my life and my business, I make certain decisions.
I know when it's right, and it just happened, and
it was very hard because the personal relationship I feel

(59:10):
for girod and and the human being he is, and
I felt guilty I put him in that position. But
we're moving on.

Speaker 5 (59:23):
Current.

Speaker 16 (59:24):
Hey, Robert, what will happen with, for instance, the personnel department,
what decisions be made with whoever the next coach is
having the latitude to bring his own players, his own
scouting staff, his own coaches.

Speaker 8 (59:39):
Yeah, well we'll wait till we bring that coach in.
And he's obviously he's going to have big input on
who the players are and who the coaches are. It
would be his decisions.

Speaker 16 (59:56):
So at this juncture would be status quo for everybody
on the staff until an.

Speaker 8 (01:00:01):
Individual subse yes, well, let look, we move fast and
we're gonna let him make those decisions.

Speaker 17 (01:00:13):
Robert, I know that you don't make snap decisions. So
I was wondering, at what point during the season did
you say something was not right? And if you could
expand on that, what caught your attention that something wasn't right.

Speaker 8 (01:00:26):
Well, in the important decisions in my life, I've always
said I measured nine times and cut once, and this
was one of those situations. I guess The main thing
for me is I felt we regressed the high point

(01:00:47):
of everything for me was winning in the Cincinnati game,
and then in mid mid season, I just think we
started to regress.

Speaker 15 (01:01:01):
I don't heard, Robert, how significantly has fan reaction to
the product on the field and too drud specifically played
into your decision.

Speaker 8 (01:01:12):
Well, I'm the biggest fan, so I understand, and you
know i've all since the day we bought this team,
and I realized what a privilege as it was, and
how lucky we were as a family that this is
the only business we're involved in where I see ourselves.

(01:01:37):
We don't own this team. It's owned by the fans
of this region, and we're custodians of a very special
asset of the community. And that's why that helps me
try to make decisions that if it was just personal,
it would be different.

Speaker 7 (01:02:01):
Robert, aside from yourself and Jonathan, who will be involved
in the head coaching interviews and what traits are you
looking for?

Speaker 8 (01:02:09):
Well, well, we'll have Alonso high Smith and Elliott will
be involved and we're gonna try to understand who can
help us best get back to the playoffs.

Speaker 18 (01:02:33):
Robert, Does that mean Elliott and his staff are going
to continue on or where the coaching hire also impact
your front office.

Speaker 8 (01:02:45):
We are are looking for people working together and they
will be staying one.

Speaker 19 (01:02:56):
Of Robert, when you say that the situation was untenable,
what about it specifically did you find untenable and how
will that influence how you approach this search.

Speaker 8 (01:03:12):
I don't like losing. I don't like losing the way
we lost, and I just just things were not developing
the way we would have liked and it was time
to move on.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Robert, how big of a search do you plan on
conduct How big of a coaching search do you plan
on conducting?

Speaker 8 (01:03:41):
Well, we we want to interview as many people as
we can that we think can help us get to
that position that we want to be in, so we
have put out and requests and Stacy will be filling

(01:04:06):
you in on that.

Speaker 7 (01:04:10):
Robert, thank you for taking our questions.

Speaker 12 (01:04:13):
Appreciate it is Mike Vrabel at or near the top
of your list.

Speaker 7 (01:04:18):
It seems to be the talk.

Speaker 8 (01:04:23):
We before i'd make a comment like that, I'd like,
I don't know all the people involved, and there are
some wonderful people that we've heard about, so I'd rather
respond to that after I've seen everyone.

Speaker 20 (01:04:45):
Robert, can you speak a bit more to the timing
of this. Did Gerard know before the game? I'm right
over here.

Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
Sorry, sorry, thank you.

Speaker 20 (01:04:53):
I was wondering if you could speak a bit more
to the timing of this. Did Gerard know before the
game that this would be his last game coaching?

Speaker 8 (01:05:02):
No, I know this was.

Speaker 7 (01:05:09):
Very difficult for you. Sit down with him. How did
he take it? How did he respond? Was he shocked
by the news?

Speaker 8 (01:05:18):
He was a man. Look, it was one of the
more difficult things I've had a do in my life
because I had such affection for him and I believe
in him, and I really do believe he will go

(01:05:41):
on and as he gets more experience, it will be successful.
It was not easy. He was a gentleman and accepted
it that way.

Speaker 21 (01:06:00):
Robert, this is going to be very expensive buying out
a coaching staff, bringing in on new coaching staff. Perhaps
it goes to the personnel department. You also have one
hundred and twenty million dollars in cap space this year,
the most in the league. Well, what you spend on
this transition effect anything that you spend on players this offseason?

Speaker 8 (01:06:22):
Yeah, i'd.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
Sure is.

Speaker 8 (01:06:26):
No, we will. We've always had a situation where we
spend to the cap and if we go over the
We have never told any coach or limited the spending.
The only thing we've said is if you exceed the cap,
we like to see it leveled out over three years

(01:06:48):
and you know so that we never get way out
of hand. But spending to the cap or above the
cap is not. We want to win. That's our priority. First.

Speaker 11 (01:07:04):
Hi, Robert, back here, how are you. You guys were
told this was a multi year rebuild, that it wasn't
going to turn around in one year. You said, you
believe in Gerard, you think he'll be better with more experience,
so why not let him get that experience here? Knowing
going in this was a multi year process.

Speaker 8 (01:07:25):
Yeah, from my point of view, I just thought we
were We had a rough year last year, not twenty
four twenty three, and going through two years like that,
and then seeing where we were this year and especially
the second half of the year just told me, just

(01:07:50):
made me feel we weren't going in the direction, in
the right direction, and I can't. I don't want to
go through this next year, and we're going to do
what we got to do to fix.

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
It, which.

Speaker 5 (01:08:05):
And now great moments in.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
History, the feeling that we had when Tom left. First,
the feeling that we have versus.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
Is a versus versus you're a kid?

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
Yes, verse? Yeah? And what versus the feeling we have
now with Billy.

Speaker 20 (01:08:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
And I would say with Tom leaving, we were much
more sensitive about did he say goodbye? Does he say
he loves us? And with Bill not so much of that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:37):
Yeah, you know, I would say, I mean because he
never gave us that anyway.

Speaker 7 (01:08:40):
Yeah, you know, it's a great.

Speaker 5 (01:08:41):
Did get choked up when he talked about the fans?

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
So I know he did, But I'm just talking about fans,
like like, oh, is he gonna is he gonna say
goodbye to us? Is he gonna do this?

Speaker 5 (01:08:50):
But that's my point is Bill did do that. That's
the part that he got emotional.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:08:55):
I feel a lot different about this one, Like like
I'm kind of like Evan was, Like, just the sight
of Brady in the Tampa uniform, it's just right.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
Will you have the main feeling if you see Bill?
Think I will? I don't think. I don't think so either.

Speaker 5 (01:09:07):
So what was worse for you? Seeing Brady in the
Tampa all right? Or seeing him in the Patriots.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Which hates him anyway, You good, fall, Peter Brady distracted. Yeah,
you walked on your own jokes. That's another great moment. Hey,
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(01:09:57):
New England Patriots.

Speaker 6 (01:09:59):
That's almost enough pillows for my wife. She loves those
decoration pillows.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Yeah, those pillows are ridiculous, especially when they're on a bed.
You make the bed, you gotta put the pillows get
in the bed.

Speaker 9 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of It's.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
Like, are we doing tours of the house, Like, why
is this important?

Speaker 7 (01:10:17):
It's just just a show pillow person.

Speaker 9 (01:10:18):
No, she's a blanket person, Like we have blankets, like,
you know, just does she get cold? Yeah, she's walked
around with a blanket all the time, all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
Let her put the heat up.

Speaker 9 (01:10:30):
No, it's not. I don't I she can do whatever
she wants, but for whatever reason. You know, when I
first met her, I that was like my one of
my first impressions of like some of her things. You
know that I was gonna have to get used to.
It is like you're just gonna have blankets all over
the house all the time.

Speaker 5 (01:10:47):
The kids would complain, well, actually, TJ Will was fine.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
Too cold?

Speaker 5 (01:10:50):
Too cold? Could we put the heat? Layer it up?

Speaker 7 (01:10:56):
Give it doesn't spend their heat until December one, and it's.

Speaker 5 (01:11:00):
Been tough times in the Prolo house. Layer it up.

Speaker 9 (01:11:04):
Should we share the little bit of news that we have.
So Tom Pelisaro has the Patriots interviewing Pep Hamilton and
Byron Leftwich today in person. So they if that is true,
I have no reason to believe it's not. They have
now fulfilled the Rooney rule and so they've checked that
box off and could move forward.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
With all right, I believe we could have a head
coach by the end of this week. They alone next week.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Yeah, that's right, could happen.

Speaker 9 (01:11:30):
All right, I'm going to play linebacker here.

Speaker 4 (01:11:33):
Yeah. I just want to mention Bill Belichick's conference comments
yesterday about the shared vision. I guess he was.

Speaker 5 (01:11:40):
He had it. Freddy had a shared vision with the
organization until for the last four years.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Last four years. I somebody sent that to me. I said,
just substitute shared vision with Tom Brady.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
What do you think changed in the last four years?

Speaker 7 (01:11:54):
I think was it me getting here? That's that it?

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
Yeah, like you did you push him out?

Speaker 7 (01:11:58):
Maybe?

Speaker 5 (01:11:59):
So you had a shared vision in nineteen right, but
not twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
Yeah, it's easy to have a shared vision when everything's
you're winning and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:12:07):
But so disingenuous.

Speaker 6 (01:12:09):
I'd love to hear his side of the story. I mean,
I know that we talk about it all the time, of.

Speaker 5 (01:12:13):
I'd love to hear the truth. Oh well, I don't
have any real interest in his side of the story.

Speaker 6 (01:12:17):
But but but for somebody who so much went wrong,
like and how much, how could he explain it away
in a way that doesn't like this makes him It
wasn't my fault.

Speaker 7 (01:12:25):
I didn't know it Like.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
That's four explains it away? Yeah, because all of a sudden,
it's Robert and Jonathan Crafts fault that Tom Brady left
and they no longer allowed him to do it the
way he wanted to do that he convinces himself that
that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:12:42):
Yeah, which was what we weren't doing as well. They
started asking me questions, so it's their fault.

Speaker 9 (01:12:47):
Yeah, but I feel like they started asking questions about
the draft twenty and eighteen probably was. It was really
the start of the poor drafting and what was going on.
So it's even pre Brady and Brady saw it. Like
Brady saw that the roster was decaying and him and
Grokowski and Edelman and those players were getting older and

(01:13:07):
they didn't have the pipeline to start replace.

Speaker 5 (01:13:10):
It's a lot of blame. I mean, there's a lot
of blame to go around, but there's not a lot
of looking in the mirror.

Speaker 6 (01:13:14):
I love Evan's point though, I mean, I think that's
because you put it as like the demarcation line of
Brady leaving, like it was already like he should have
already kind of been under question by the time he
got to that.

Speaker 9 (01:13:23):
The twenty eighteen Super Bowl is like their last dance, right,
Like they put it together for three more games and
Brady put them on their back for three three more
games and they won a Super Bowl.

Speaker 7 (01:13:34):
That.

Speaker 9 (01:13:34):
Frankly, they probably shouldn't have won, right, just in terms
of the season that they had. If you watch them
during the regular season in twenty eighteen, you already saw
that the team was getting worse they had.

Speaker 5 (01:13:44):
It was a great combination of the greatness of Belichick
and Brady in the AFC Championship game. I thought it
was a brilliant plan. So I give Belichick a lot
of credit for that. Pacific people think that I'm always
crapping on Belichick. Not the case, like you watch that
game and he I think was solely responsible for them

(01:14:05):
having control of the game to start the second half
because Brady did not play great in the first half.
He had a huge pick in the end zone.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (01:14:14):
But then Kansas City adjusts their talent wins out. Now
we're hanging on Captain America to the rescue right when
you had to have them down the street in overtime.
He was perfect.

Speaker 9 (01:14:28):
You're a big fan of die mod.

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
Magic, I'd have to know what that is.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
What is it?

Speaker 9 (01:14:35):
So die od magic is basically the call that they
used in the AFC Championship Game for most of the game.
So dime, that's the defensive package obviously odd man odd
front magic is what covers zero call with a double
on Tyreek Hill. So they played Manta man five man
rush up front, double team Tyreek Hill over the top,

(01:14:56):
and then they put a corner on Travis Kelcey instead
of a safety. It started as j C. Jackson and
then Stefan Gilmour started to cover uh tyre Travis Kelcey
a little bit towards the end and U and that
was the game they stole.

Speaker 5 (01:15:08):
They stole just enough stops to get some separation and
then Kansas City figured it out and they started moving
the ball at will doing other things and ultimately came
down to really, you know, I don't think really yeah,
if you want to.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
Get well, it came down to those third and fourth
down conversions.

Speaker 5 (01:15:30):
Well, if the penalty doesn't happen the games, that's true
the off side that the guy doesn't line up off
who was it?

Speaker 7 (01:15:36):
D Ford.

Speaker 9 (01:15:38):
They also had a really cool wrinkle on defense. They
had a tell for Kansas City which way the line
was going to slide, you know, man side, slide side,
and so they would wrap the stunt up front opposite
of the slide, and they had a tail based off
of where Mahomes put the running back of which side
the slide was going to go to, and so they

(01:15:58):
would just wrap the free runner the other way, and
they were just getting pressure on them the whole first
half doing that. Then Kansas City caught on. But it
was pretty cool that.

Speaker 5 (01:16:07):
The little game within the game, and Damian Williams was
a big part of that second half if I remember, Yeah, though,
oh yeah, that's their offense and that was like, you know,
that was both of those teams offenses.

Speaker 8 (01:16:22):
Yea.

Speaker 4 (01:16:22):
His picks, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
You know, they rubs if they don't draw flags, right,
but they're absolutely illegal, no, I mean that's Sammy Watkin's
play at the end was an absolute pick for Kansas City.

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
All Right, pay podcast at Patriots dot Com is the
email address. David new Hampshire writes in I've heard a
lot of fans disliking the vrabel pick with possibly McDaniel's
oc due to changing up the system on May. Obviously,
Johnson is the hot new type pants guy, but I
think people forget he's also an Earhart Perkins guy like Josh.

(01:16:57):
Their schemes are different, of course, but for people worried
about changing systems on May, Johnson has the same problem, thoughts.

Speaker 5 (01:17:05):
I don't have any objection to Josh McDaniels because it's
a change of the system. The system is changing. Yeah,
Alex Van Pelt's not gonna be the offensive coordinator next year.

Speaker 9 (01:17:15):
I think there's also a big difference between talking about
the system and that respect. That's the language. So it's
the language that we're speaking in terms of Earnhard Perkins,
is the way that the verbiage of how you call
the plays. That doesn't mean that the design of the
offense is the same.

Speaker 5 (01:17:32):
But I'll give the email a credit, like I wasn't
aware that Ben Johnson has his roots in Aarhart Perkins.

Speaker 9 (01:17:37):
Technically yes, but you know, again, it's a big difference
between play design and how we call plays. How we
call plays is West Coast, ern Hard Perkins, air Quarriel.
How you design plays is a different category of how
you're gonna move the football offensively. So don't you know
ern Hard Perkins, West Coast? I think a lot of

(01:17:57):
people get caught up in that one. Really, it's the
scheme of are you an outside zone team, are you
a downhill run team, or you under center or you shotgun?
You know how do you formationally space the field?

Speaker 7 (01:18:07):
Like?

Speaker 9 (01:18:08):
Those are the things that separate all these offenses.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
David Bethlehem McDaniels gets my vote for OC. Maybe would
be a great pairing with a defensive minded head coach,
the management would be balanced. How about asking the new
head coach who was ol coaches are and asking Dante
to interview them. While Wolf has been criticized, what exactly
has Heismith done? No one knows.

Speaker 7 (01:18:30):
It's not always the case though.

Speaker 6 (01:18:31):
There's a bunch of guys in the front office that
you don't know what people are always doing, like.

Speaker 7 (01:18:35):
I mean, it's not even on the coaching staff too.

Speaker 6 (01:18:36):
I mean you get the guys, you get to talk
to the coordinators, and you get even the defensive coaches.
But then we don't even see, you know, like some
of the guys.

Speaker 5 (01:18:43):
Who are like the assistant So we haven't talked much
about personnel guys around the league. You know, there's a
lot of assistant gms that are going to be in
line to get GM jobs. My boy, Mike Bergonzi's one
of them from Everett. He's the assistant general manager of
the Chiefs. What does he do? I don't know, right,

(01:19:05):
How do you know, he's.

Speaker 7 (01:19:06):
Likes in on the meetings.

Speaker 5 (01:19:07):
I mean, he's part of a really successful organization that's
done a great job.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
Of the acquiring talent or assistant to the GM.

Speaker 5 (01:19:13):
And does he have any say?

Speaker 4 (01:19:15):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:19:16):
You know what, I don't know exactly what is the
guy that is tied to vrabel a lot that we
talked about, Ryan Cowden. He's like whatever the executive isist
into Joe Shane. I don't know what he's doing. I
don't know, like if he's competent in his job.

Speaker 6 (01:19:31):
And that's why though they're like if you were in
those meetings, you probably would know, like one of these
guys is really bright, you know, like like some of
these guys are just kind of there hanging out, but
other guys, you.

Speaker 5 (01:19:41):
Know, assault of the earth.

Speaker 8 (01:19:42):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:19:42):
Obviously his background is impeccable coming from every high school,
but you know, he is an Ivy League guy who
went to Brown, played football and baseball at Brown. And
you know, I do know the family a little bit,
great family, but that doesn't mean he's fit to be
an NFL executive.

Speaker 9 (01:19:56):
Yeah, he from what I understand, and I could be
wrong about this, but he's Brown Ivy League guy. He's
more on the cap analytics side of things, which is
why he's been a very popular candidate, and Cowden variables
guy Shocker is more of the old school put.

Speaker 5 (01:20:15):
Pats on and and watch the film and.

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
Barton Poland with Mayo Gun, it's time to hire an
offensive minded head coach. Defensive head coaches like Verbel show
the risks struggling to find and keep quality ocs. We
need someone young and innovative who can establish long term
offensive stability. Also, people don't want the risk of an
inexperienced head coach. If you ask me, most of the
top head coaches in the league right now are mostly

(01:20:40):
first time head coaches. Also preach Brad. Let's not compare
proven coordinators to draw Mayo who may have been the
least qualified resume wives coaching higher of the last decade.
Ben Johnson or Liam Cohen? What might be my two choices?
Johnson is self explanatory and Cohen was with his New
England roots you mass player Rood Allen, native but not

(01:21:02):
connected directly to the Patriots. Of course, do a proper search,
and if that search leads you to a guy like Rabel, okay,
But my preference would be an offensive head coach.

Speaker 7 (01:21:13):
It's fair.

Speaker 5 (01:21:13):
It's fair. I like the entirety of that email. Yeah,
if the search leads you to Vrabel and you really
think that he's the best candidate, now let's hire Mike
Rabel because I know he can coach. I know he
can coach.

Speaker 6 (01:21:26):
Especially the comparison of MAO, which is just you have
to acknowledge that he wasn't a first time hand coach.
He was a first time coach, you know, period, like
most of these guys that are going to be first
time hand coaches have coached for a while.

Speaker 9 (01:21:36):
Yeah. I agree with the point. I'm usually an offensive
minded guy, as everyone knows, and I agree that it's
hard as a defensive coach. But I do think there
is evidence that there are other elements to this that
are more important than just which side of the ball
do you call plays for, you know, the culture building,
the CEO elements. We certainly have seen how handling press
conferences and all that kind of stuff can be make

(01:21:57):
an impact, and those things I think matter a lot.
I think that's why Jim Harbaughs exceeding so much in
Los Angeles. He's not calling plays on either side of
the ball. He's just running the ship and running it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:08):
Well.

Speaker 6 (01:22:09):
I can I ask you guys a quick question. I'm
not I didn't track this. What was the trajectory of
Derek Henry coming into the NFL, because I know he
was what like a second round.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
Fell comes back to Derek twenty sixteen.

Speaker 6 (01:22:19):
Right, ye, kind of okay, twenty sixteen, twenty seventy. Look,
I just did a cursory research of his stats, just
trying to put together like what Rabel's team building process
kind of was. But Henry was already there when he arrived,
Like what what happened those first two years? He wasn't
like crazy Derrick Henry until well, like Rabel kind of
got there those couple of years.

Speaker 5 (01:22:36):
If I'm not mistaken, I would have to look at
this up to get the actual bio. But I think
they were nine and seven the two previous years before Rabel,
and then they were nine and seven Rabel's first two years. Huh,
So I don't really think there was a.

Speaker 4 (01:22:48):
Whole Henry was good right away.

Speaker 6 (01:22:50):
That's what I was surprised that fred I looked at
like his prosional staffs. He wasn't well, it was like
eight hundred and seven eight hunreds first two years. I
don't know, I didn't go that deep. That's what I
was hoping you guys might know. I mean, that's just
I was starting to like look at Rabel's drafts, you know,
get a sense of what kind of guys they like
to take.

Speaker 9 (01:23:05):
Well, so I think a big part of you know,
Derrick Henry was was an amazing college player at Alabama,
but there was always concerns about, you know, the type
of runner that he was, is he too kind of
old school, you know, he's going to be a downhill runner.

Speaker 5 (01:23:18):
And thought that might be wear and tear. I think
he would have a long shelf life. And that's the
exact opposite.

Speaker 9 (01:23:23):
I do remember, you know, those offenses, Mariota offenses, and
so they were they were trying to be more spread
and Oregon style and that kind of thing. And I
wonder when Rabel got there, he probably put the quarterback
under center, got there a big personnel.

Speaker 5 (01:23:38):
And so his first year he played fifteen games, but
only started too. His second year he played sixteen games again,
only started to one hundred and ten attempts one hundred
and seventy six attempts. So at the time the day,
the average was four and a half, you know, full
point two, So it wasn't bad. And was it eighteen
Rabel's first year.

Speaker 7 (01:23:58):
I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:23:59):
Yeah, So then he goes to twelve starts and goes
up to two hundred and fifteen carries, so you know
that's started feeding them. He started getting Fedd's.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
The guy that did it. Wasn't they have that speedy
guy on the team Chris Johnson, Yeah, that would be.

Speaker 5 (01:24:14):
That would be before that.

Speaker 9 (01:24:15):
Was before that, before that, but not to CJ two
K Yeah, not like too far. Like I think they
actually passed the torch if I remember it correctly, like
I think, so they.

Speaker 5 (01:24:23):
Had two two thousand yard rushers in short succession.

Speaker 9 (01:24:26):
Huh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:24:27):
I don't know exactly how big the gap was, but
I don't think it was big at all.

Speaker 5 (01:24:30):
But I think you might have hit. Without looking at
this closely, I think Evan might hit it. Yeah, it
was probably just Mariota in a spread offense. That's really
not that. That's why I had my doubts about the Ravens.
One of my all time worst.

Speaker 9 (01:24:44):
Calls right there with you.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
So you think he'd have a hard time, So do
you give Rabel credit by coming in and saying, look,
we got Derrick Henry. We're gonna use it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
I mean, that's you know, that's what I was kind
of wondering. I don't know, I mean, I have to
do a little more research. But and I was looking
at that. I was looking at their drafts.

Speaker 7 (01:24:59):
You know, they were drafts. They had a couple of
bad drafts.

Speaker 9 (01:25:02):
They were fantastic play action passing team. And I would
say that Derrick Henry was one of those few backs
where when he was in the backfield, play action just worked.
You know, like everybody was afraid of him coming downhill.
And so much of Ryan Tannehill's statistics in that big
year that he had, we're off of play action. And
he kind of was a play action merchant for a

(01:25:22):
while there in Tennessee. And so that that was that
was it, you know, that was the offense. It was
Derrick Henry down your throats, play action pass and then
Derrick Henry late down your throats and milk the clock.

Speaker 5 (01:25:34):
So that that year, Tannehill completed over seventy percent of
his passes, twenty two touchdown six picks, led the league
in yards per attempt, and his rating was one seventeen
point five. I think I said it was like one
seventeen point five. They totally led the league in that

(01:25:54):
as well. He only he only started ten games, like
he came in midway too. He replaced Mariota Riota, right,
and they just absolutely took off.

Speaker 7 (01:26:05):
You know, was that Lafleur at that point?

Speaker 5 (01:26:07):
Maybe I believe that was still Laflur. I believe so
because then they think he got the Green Bay job
in twenty.

Speaker 9 (01:26:13):
Right, Yeah, and Arthur Smith was ends coach.

Speaker 5 (01:26:15):
And then but the next year, Tannehill went eleven and
five and again completed over sixty five percent of his
passes thirty eight hundred and nineteen yards. So that's not
that's a sixteen game season, approaching four thousand yards, thirty
three touchdowns, seven picks. So I know, like the reason
I bring up Tannehill a lot with this is because

(01:26:37):
I think there's a lot of similarities between Drake May's
game in Tannehill. I think Drake May has more skill.
I think he can, I think he should be better
than Tannehill. But an athletic guy who can move around
and make throws on the run, uses legs occasionally, May
is a better passer, no question. In my mind, he's
a better passer. But I think there's some similarities there.

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
You better get we're good.

Speaker 9 (01:27:03):
You better get him practicing. You said under center, you know,
hand your hand off fakes, you know, play action fakes.
That is one area of Drake's game where I thought
he needs some work on his selling play action, showing
the fake a little bit better. And now the sort
of things, the ball handling aspects of it. Do you
better If that's the type of offense you're going to run,

(01:27:23):
then he'd be doing that all summer.

Speaker 5 (01:27:26):
I hear a lot of people talking about, like you know,
you know Rabel was able to do all this, that
and the other thing with Tannehill. Imagine like no, like
Tannehill was really good for him, Like I get that,
it was a lot of it was coaching, because I
don't think he's been He wasn't really good before that,
and he wasn't really good after that. Yeah, you know
once he lost Lafleura and Smith. So I get that,

(01:27:50):
but now I need to I need to know what
you plan.

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
On doing, John and Louisiana writes, and one thing that
Deuce was frustrated all season with was all my all
the my bads, and that's my fault. I got to
get better. I'm telling you right now, you barely got
one my bad or that's my fault before Rabel rips
a new one into you. And I'll say, that's one
thing I'd be excited for with Rabel coming in, the

(01:28:13):
authority and the seriousness he has with his personality and
the fact he knows what it takes to build a
good team from scratch. Ps. I secretly wouldn't mind Josh
McDaniels as the OC. It's a fine take.

Speaker 7 (01:28:25):
Yeah, I wouldn't mind it either.

Speaker 6 (01:28:27):
But I just like a lot of these decisions I'm
wondering because there's two sides of it.

Speaker 7 (01:28:30):
There's like the just the pure football.

Speaker 6 (01:28:32):
Analyst thought on it, and then there's the fanboy part
of me that likes Josh and likes Rabel and you
know knows this. Yeah, well I know that, you know.
I mean, aside from just that, like you guys know him.
I've talked to Josh a couple of times now, you know, Like,
so there's a relationship there. So that's appealing to me.
But you know, I don't want to get caught up.
I don't want to get caught up in I like

(01:28:53):
the guy. This is the best decision for the Patriots.
That's I think what they're gonna be asking themselves when
they interview Ben Johnson.

Speaker 9 (01:28:57):
It is a departure, you know. We mentioned Laflora and
Arthur Smith are West Coast coaches, so the system is
a departure from what Rabel had in Tennessee. So I
wonder that too, if he's ready to kind of pivot
into a different, different way of doing things.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
Eldred is in North Carolina, the tpx utline. What's up Eldred?

Speaker 22 (01:29:16):
Hey, fellas not into truck today. I got COVID.

Speaker 5 (01:29:20):
COVID all right, I got the COVID.

Speaker 22 (01:29:22):
Yeah, I'm doing better. But y'all look good on you tube.

Speaker 10 (01:29:27):
Like YouTube.

Speaker 5 (01:29:29):
But me but.

Speaker 22 (01:29:36):
I'm kind of disappointed. But I understand the change. But
you do the two years and mister Pepp, I love you,
but I think you did your boy dirty, you know.
And then the keeping wolf in the hospital, big mistake.
I'm like Paul clean House, and I hope we get
Ben Johnson.

Speaker 12 (01:29:54):
I don't want Rablee.

Speaker 22 (01:29:56):
We'll get Ben Jonson. Yeah, I have a good one, man.
I gotta go take to me.

Speaker 4 (01:30:01):
Felt all right, Eldred weighing in, Ben Johnson, Let's see
Kevin is in San Francisco. Hey, Kevin, Hey guys, how
are we doing good?

Speaker 7 (01:30:12):
Kevin?

Speaker 10 (01:30:14):
A couple of things, you know.

Speaker 23 (01:30:15):
When it when I heard the news on Sunday, obviously
everyone had their opinions on whether it's the right and
wrong thing, but it kind of dawned on me. Several
weeks ago we heard the chatter about the crafts calling
around and you know, getting opinions and talking to people
behind the scenes and whether or not that was, you know,
the right thing to do with the wrong thing, And

(01:30:36):
it kind of dawned on me. I wonder if they
were trying, you know, they were fed up with a
VP or for the coming hit, and just that we
have to get some better ocs and DC's around around Drod.
Now we know that's a tough call, because no one
wants to go to a dead man walking for one
year and then be cleaned out. But if they were
able to get somebody of higher quality, do you think

(01:30:57):
that might have saved Drod mail for one more year?

Speaker 5 (01:31:03):
I mean maybe I do think that part of the
problem was the staff I don't think there was a
lot of experience on the staff, so yeah, I mean
that that could have possibly done it. But I think
that the bigger issues with Gerard were about what Robert
talked about yesterday and just I don't think he was
he was ready for it. To me, the much more

(01:31:23):
troubling part was the constant missteps off the field, both
from him and the players, which to me is an
extension of him, Like the lack of sort of control,
you know, the discipline was lacking.

Speaker 9 (01:31:36):
Yeah, I come back to like the beginning with Gerrod
and just it never felt like he had like a
pipeline to tap into of where he was going to
hire these coaches from. And it most of these guys
that were new to the staff were connected to Elliott Wolfe.
Like it wasn't Gerrod who was the one that was
saying this is MYOC, this is my DC besides Covington,

(01:31:59):
so you know, Jerry Montgomery, Alex van Pelt, really the
whole offensive side of the ball, Jeremy Springer. Those guys
are wolf guys. And it just didn't feel like Gerard
was prepared to step into it with actual candidates that
fit the building of those positions.

Speaker 4 (01:32:18):
Drew's in Connecticut. Hey Drew, I got.

Speaker 22 (01:32:22):
How you doing today?

Speaker 4 (01:32:23):
Good?

Speaker 7 (01:32:23):
Good?

Speaker 24 (01:32:25):
So I just wanted to ask a couple of things.
I wanted to get your guys' like opinion on, like
who realistic coordinators could be for offense and defense for
both Ben Johnson or Rabel. I personally like Rabel and
Ben Johnson. I'm honestly happy with either candidate. I just

(01:32:46):
kind of was curious.

Speaker 25 (01:32:47):
Who they're like coordinators could be.

Speaker 24 (01:32:49):
I know someone mentioned yesterday how you guys talked about
how well for incoming free agents, does the OC matter
if your head coach is Ben Johnson versus Rabel, And
like someone was like, if it's Ben Johnson, it doesn't,
but like if it's Rabel, the OC is super important
for incoming free agents as well. I also just want
to get your guys' opinion on last year's draft last

(01:33:11):
and how like you guys believe that like Polk and
Baker with better coaching and development could take like a
year or two jump that's big. The same thing for
like Kiden Wallace, I know he was injured, but like
could he become like a heap same thing with polkan
Baker kind of how they were to both do I know,
you don't really give up on guys after one year,

(01:33:32):
but like, do you think they could really make a
big year two jump if they got better coaching and developed?

Speaker 4 (01:33:36):
Well, I don't know about it. Yeah, I don't know,
but it can't hurt to have better coaching.

Speaker 5 (01:33:41):
No, let's go forward. Talked about the possibility of Josh
mc daniels going with Rabel, you know, to a lesser extent.
Tommy Reese is a name that's been tied to Rabel
offensive coordinator. I don't think any of us has a
guess on defensive coordinator, do we well?

Speaker 9 (01:33:56):
So Shane Bowen was his defensive coordinator in Tennessee, but
he's currently the defensive coordinator for the Giants, and the
Giants didn't fire Dable, so I would assume that he's
staying put with the Giants. A couple names i'd throw
out there. Patrick Graham is a big one, I think
with the Raiders current.

Speaker 5 (01:34:12):
He's gettings for head coaches right now.

Speaker 9 (01:34:15):
Yeah, so he's not under contract. His contract expired with
the Raiders, so he is a technically a coaching free agent.
So he's a former Patriot defensive assistant and he has
some ties here. And lou Anna Murumo, who just got
fired by the Bengals, scapegoated by the Bengals for them
not making the playoffs is another uh. I would say,

(01:34:39):
not a direct tie to Belichick or the coaching tree
or anything, but runs a similar defense to what the
Patriots have ran over the past couple of years. So
I could see both those guys being No idea.

Speaker 5 (01:34:51):
On Ben Johnson, I don't have any idea what his.

Speaker 9 (01:34:53):
So he spent time with an Umo in Miami. They
were on the staff together with the Dolphins for a
little while, so there could be potentially a connection between
those two guys.

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
I know Salah is interviewing for head coach too, But
do you think you'd ever come back as a DC,
just you know, for a while. If he doesn't like
what's being offered or think.

Speaker 5 (01:35:10):
That doesn't get it off, that's probably his his ticket
back in the league right now. Yeah, he'll be a
DC somewhere.

Speaker 4 (01:35:17):
What about would you?

Speaker 5 (01:35:18):
I would take be happy with that. I think he
runs a good defense.

Speaker 4 (01:35:21):
I don't know how out.

Speaker 5 (01:35:23):
I don't know how that was with you know, you
don't like.

Speaker 9 (01:35:26):
The system stylistically, I just don't think it fits. Uh,
you know they they're there are zone defense. There are
four to three four man rush defense. You have to
have extremely athletic linebackers to play zone coverage the way
they want to play zone coverage. You're obviously going to
go through a significant personnel overhaul anyways, but that's you have.

Speaker 4 (01:35:48):
You need a whole talk to build that defense.

Speaker 9 (01:35:50):
It's it. I think you can build it, but you
would need to.

Speaker 7 (01:35:52):
Build You're way far away from it.

Speaker 9 (01:35:54):
Yeah, like you're not Jewan Bentley and Jolanny dev A
not playing linebacker and that defense you know, no good
place Fred Warner and j mod and you could They'll
get Dre Greenlow maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:36:07):
Yes, uh Sam and Saint Catharine's right. Sint Derek Henry
was a slow start because Lafleur is one of those
committee no matter what coaches when it comes to running backs.
So he was spelling Henry with Dion Lewis a lot,
which slowed his development.

Speaker 7 (01:36:21):
Real friend, deal Lewis, excuse me.

Speaker 5 (01:36:25):
What is Josh Jacobs split with?

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
Huh?

Speaker 5 (01:36:28):
What is Josh Jacobs split time with?

Speaker 23 (01:36:29):
Now?

Speaker 7 (01:36:30):
Oh god, with the floor.

Speaker 9 (01:36:32):
They do have that a backup, but he's like an
undrafted rookie changed.

Speaker 4 (01:36:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:36:38):
Yeah, I mean I think that there's probably more about
the offense, especially if you're telling me it was Deon Lewis,
because Dion Lewis is that kind of back. Yeah, he's
a spread back.

Speaker 6 (01:36:47):
He was exciting for a little bit, like just intriguing.
I know, big injury, but was he did he like
because he came out of nowhere. He's one of those
guys that you probably dismissive of because he kicked around
the league. But remember that like carry had in Dallas
where like six guys missed him.

Speaker 9 (01:37:00):
Like that had a little run against Houston that he
had like three touchdowns. Yeah, very different return and rushing.

Speaker 5 (01:37:08):
Yeah, he was. He was a really productive guy for
the Patriots for seven times.

Speaker 9 (01:37:13):
That twenty fifteen season. He was unreal and till he
got hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:37:16):
I mean he was that Dallas.

Speaker 7 (01:37:18):
That's crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:37:18):
That was a huge, huge injury. And you know, I
Laflour's you know, I know that he did split time
with like Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon. I want to say,
but like again, like if you have one guy like
I think he's showing you now, if you have a
guy with Josh Jacobs. I mean, I don't have the Packers'

(01:37:40):
stats in front of me, but I have to think
that he got the lion's share of the band this year. Yeah,
And I would think that Derek Henry would have been
that kind of guy. Maybe it was just as simple
as he was just a rookie and it's you know,
it took him a couple of years. But I think
Evan is right on with the style of offense that
they were likely running at the time is probably not
conducive to a power guy.

Speaker 9 (01:38:01):
Yeah, just go to the receivers real quick. With Polk
and Baker. So is there a chance that they could
have like a Kaishaan Boody second season. I'm not rolling
that out, but you just don't see it too often
anymore where they have a complete dud of a rookie
season and then all of a sudden that guy turns
into like a legitimate impact player in the NFL, especially

(01:38:23):
at that position. Like I would be absolutely shocked at
this point if Jalen Polk is an NFL player on
this team in like two or three years.

Speaker 5 (01:38:30):
I would say even more so with Baker.

Speaker 6 (01:38:31):
I definitely, yeah, that one is yeah, because.

Speaker 5 (01:38:33):
I think Baker's problems are far more than ability. I
just think he looks like he doesn't have the professionalism.
That's what the coaches talked about. This is not me
saying this. The coaches have made many references to this
over the course of the year. Just not doing what
he's supposed to be doing at practice.

Speaker 4 (01:38:50):
Well, that's more of an indictment on Wolf and Mark
and Schaeddow writes in having rewatched the Craft press conference,
I think it's clear that Wolf is staying. The first
question was talking about the new coach having a say
on players, and we'll be up to him personnel to
yeah otherwise. I think Craft was very clear he needs

(01:39:12):
people that can work together and that means working with
Wolf will be staying. Why does everyone else seem to
think that the new coach will have a say on
Wolf staying or going? What am I missing? I hear
what you're saying, because Paul and I went over the
transcript this morning because we were we wanted to make
sure that we remembered correctly, and the follow up with

(01:39:34):
Karen Garigian. In my opinion, Kraft was clear that Wolf
would be staying on. But I think and just a
guess through back channels, and Phil Perry was the mouthpiece
for this. Perry's story today was whoever the head coach

(01:39:55):
come that comes in and gets the job, he will
have a say on who his personnel person is. So
if it's Mike Rabel and he wants a new guy,
he's going to get a new guy. If it's Mike
Rabel and he wants to keep Elliott Wolf, he's going
to keep Elliott Wolf. But the you know, if it's

(01:40:16):
you know, Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel, they have the
leverage and uh, not giving them their personal guy is
not going to be why uh they don't come here.
They're gonna get what they want.

Speaker 7 (01:40:28):
They had to get that out there. I mean, I
think that's key. Yeah, you know, we said, you just
don't want to lose the guys. You know, Yeah, there
is competitions, and I.

Speaker 5 (01:40:34):
Think I think they will be back. I just don't
know in what capacity if the new coach, to Fred's point,
wants his own GMS.

Speaker 4 (01:40:40):
And it's a tough question for Robert or anybody fielding.
You know, you're in the middle of getting ready for
the draft and off season. You're not gonna stand up
there and say, yeah, are guys gone. Yeah, you know,
you don't know. You don't know. You're first of all,
you don't know who you're gonna hire, and you don't
know whoever that person is what they want, So you
have to be open to that. They, like I said,

(01:41:01):
that person might come in and say, yeah, Elliott Wolf,
I know about him, He's got a good reputation. I've
talked to people before I got here about him. Let's
keep him on Cleveland for the past year.

Speaker 9 (01:41:12):
Yeah, a lot of people are pretty familiar with the guys, right.

Speaker 4 (01:41:16):
Let's let's keep him on that. That could perfectly, that
could happen. Yeah, So for you know, I think Robert
Kraft was just kind of even things open. But I
think in that last answer, I thought he was saying
he's gonna stay on regardless. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:41:32):
I thought was pretty good on this yesterday.

Speaker 6 (01:41:34):
I was just saying, like, you can't fire everybody and
make everybody walk out of the building.

Speaker 7 (01:41:38):
You want, like, you have to keep people. It's very
common for theft.

Speaker 4 (01:41:42):
He was reason it's very common for teams in our
position to keep their personnel people on through the draft
because they've done all the work. They're gonna be professionals.
You don't have to worry about them leaking it out
who were interested in drafting. They're going to do their
job regardless, and then after the draft you make your decisions.

(01:42:03):
But again, whoever they decide on being the head coach,
that person's going to have what they want. Let's see
Camel from Georgia is there? He says, Is there any
coaches you want to keep? Coaches you want to keep?

Speaker 5 (01:42:20):
Not me?

Speaker 9 (01:42:20):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
Okay, cornerbacks coach, yep.

Speaker 9 (01:42:25):
I think he does a really good job. I wouldn't
be totally opposed to some of the special teams coordinator coaches.

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
Springer seems to have done a pretty good job.

Speaker 9 (01:42:37):
Tom Quinn I think is getting a lot of credit
as well in that room, and he's a long time
experienced special teams guy. But I don't have any I'm
not going to bad for anybody. But if I had to.

Speaker 5 (01:42:47):
Go, can I just say, I'm not going to come
on here and pull a Tampa tantrum. If you know
there's a couple of guys that come back. I just
look at it as I don't really think any element
of the team was very good last year. I have
no problem if they all go, That's that's all I'm saying.
If they come back, if the guys that Evan and Mike.

Speaker 4 (01:43:06):
Like, well, we're definitely going to need a new strength
and conditioning coordinator.

Speaker 9 (01:43:10):
Why is that friend?

Speaker 4 (01:43:12):
Well, it happens to be one's head coach's brother.

Speaker 5 (01:43:15):
What's the difference between the head coaches brother coming back
and the head coach's son's coming back?

Speaker 4 (01:43:20):
You know, stranger things are happening already.

Speaker 5 (01:43:23):
But in all seriousness, like I know that darn Harmon
Mayo is going to go. Was called him Harmon? Like
Brian Belichick came back and his father got fired.

Speaker 4 (01:43:33):
Yeah, so well the guy never the guy that was
Doran's uh, Deron Mayo's assistant Brian McDonough. H. He's been
associated with the team for a long time, he might stays,
he's very good.

Speaker 5 (01:43:45):
I associated with the team for a long time.

Speaker 4 (01:43:47):
Oh yeah, not on staff. But he was a guy
who worked out guys in the off season a VP.

Speaker 5 (01:43:54):
Is that why you know him? Like you know high
level meetings that you know?

Speaker 4 (01:43:57):
I know him from? I know him from other do
you work you out? Might have been a family member?

Speaker 5 (01:44:05):
See, you never know when you pull a thread what
you're gonna find?

Speaker 4 (01:44:08):
Uh, with the draft and the Patriots having so many holes,
I'm fine with drafting anyone at pick four that fills
a hole. What do you guys think? Yeah, sure, sure,
there we go. And what do you do with the
kicker position? Do you draft one or sign one?

Speaker 5 (01:44:22):
Do not draft one?

Speaker 7 (01:44:23):
Please?

Speaker 6 (01:44:24):
I try to get Sly back, and they already brought
back Parker Romo. They signed him to a future contract.
He was on the practice squad. So I mean, i'd
like to.

Speaker 5 (01:44:31):
You know, you have seven names of the guys they
signed it.

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
Not off the top of my not off the top
of my head, but I can tell you if you
give me a second.

Speaker 4 (01:44:37):
Well, while you're doing that, I think we might have
already mentioned this. Tom Peliasaro is reporting that the Bengals
are interviewing or planned to interview, DeMarcus Covington.

Speaker 5 (01:44:46):
I don't think we said it on the air for
their DC job.

Speaker 4 (01:44:48):
Yeah, I feel caught with Pelisaro's a good source.

Speaker 9 (01:44:52):
Yeah, DeMarcus Covington was on the right track. You almost
feel bad for him because he was he was headed
in a head coaching direction. Many people thought he was
on Tom Pelliser's list of future head coaching candidates earlier
this season. Then obviously what's happens happened, so him catching
on someplace else at that level would not be all
that surprising.

Speaker 7 (01:45:13):
Yeah, you're ready for this list, Paul.

Speaker 6 (01:45:14):
This is Uh, let's see if I was gonna make
up some names to see if I could get you.
I want you that though.

Speaker 7 (01:45:19):
Caleb Jones.

Speaker 5 (01:45:22):
From Caleb Jones, John Giles.

Speaker 7 (01:45:25):
John Giles, you got the kicker that you are?

Speaker 23 (01:45:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:45:32):
How about the kick thirty five guy? My guy? Is
he one? They don't have to do it because he
was on the roster.

Speaker 6 (01:45:37):
Yeah, he might be under contract though, because they signed
him up to the promote him.

Speaker 4 (01:45:43):
All right.

Speaker 7 (01:45:44):
Mark Perry safety didn't see much of him. Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:45:48):
Marcus Harris, another defensive lineman, never really saw him.

Speaker 23 (01:45:52):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:45:53):
I think that's about it. Yeah, maybe missed one, but
futures contracts, Giles Jones.

Speaker 4 (01:46:00):
Something just popped up on the Sports Boston uh show,
Albert Breer's coming. This is his opinion that if the
Patriots don't go through a thorough search, you know, it's
going to be a really bad look for them, you know,
based on what's happened. But here's the problem.

Speaker 5 (01:46:19):
Who's who decides where the thorough search.

Speaker 4 (01:46:22):
Who's well that? But here's the problem, Like, if the
main two candidates are two guys right now, like they're
the hot ones and you want one of them, don't
you have to move fast because there's a lot of suitors, right,
I mean, like we don't have I don't know if
they have the luxury.

Speaker 6 (01:46:40):
Of rolling out fifteen guys over the next three weeks if.

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
They want one of those two.

Speaker 5 (01:46:45):
Guys, so that it's not a thorough search, right.

Speaker 4 (01:46:48):
But but it could be out of necessity that they
have to move fast. But it's what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:46:53):
But if you're having a thorough search, you don't know
that you have to move fast. What do you mean
if you don't know who the coach is and you're
going to interview, say ten guys, there's no need to
Why would I know I have to move.

Speaker 4 (01:47:06):
Fast because you want one of those two guys?

Speaker 5 (01:47:08):
Correct, So it's not a thorough search, okay, because you
know which one you want already.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
But I think the consensus of everyone is those are
the two best candidates, So don't you want one of
the two best candidates.

Speaker 5 (01:47:20):
There's not the consensus of me, I have no idea
who's available. I don't know what these guys. Well, I
don't want Byron Leftwich. No, he's been out of football
for two years. I'm going to guess no.

Speaker 9 (01:47:31):
But like, no of all that, No, seriously.

Speaker 5 (01:47:33):
When a better candidate. I have no idea, right.

Speaker 4 (01:47:36):
So I'm just saying all these names out there, like
it seems like people in the know say that the
two top the two prizes of this.

Speaker 5 (01:47:47):
But don't you think that's because they know that those
are the only two guys I don't know, And I'm sorry, Well.

Speaker 4 (01:47:51):
I don't know. I don't I don't know what other guys.
I don't I don't know any of these other guys.
I'm just basing it off there.

Speaker 9 (01:48:00):
You're right. I mean Ben Johnson's been at the top
of the list for three cycles now this is the
third cycle that he is a top name in the
coaching cycle.

Speaker 5 (01:48:08):
And you wouldn't have to go fast for him. You
got me, You get all the time in your world
do you want for him? He's going to be in
the playoffs for a while. Yeah, you can't hire him.

Speaker 9 (01:48:18):
Not until the end.

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
Well, you're interviewing him, right, you can interview you can't
make him an offer, sure, but you can't sign him. No,
but you can make them you know, you can make
it a handshake deal. No rush, this is what you're
talking about.

Speaker 5 (01:48:31):
No rush, there's no rush. You can't sign with anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
He can't. But he can agree to a deal.

Speaker 5 (01:48:36):
You always just tell me, you know, don't take don't
agree to any deals. When you're done with the play.
We want to respect for you. I want you to
put your best foot forward for the Detroit Lions. You
work for the Detroit Lions. But give us an opportunity
to meet with you again when when your season's over.

Speaker 4 (01:48:51):
Okay, what if another team during this cycle says, here's
the deal we will offer you. We would like a
yes or no.

Speaker 5 (01:48:58):
Now, you got to make sure that he doesn't do that.

Speaker 4 (01:49:02):
I know, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:49:04):
So then you're not having research. That's all I'm saying. No,
if identified two guys, you're right, and if you ask me,
they've identified one. I couldn't make it myself, but i'm not.
I failed like I only made it one more minute.

Speaker 4 (01:49:16):
You're right, you're right. You're you're saying that we want
one of these two guys But what I'm asking is,
are there anybody that the good as those two guys?

Speaker 5 (01:49:26):
I think that you know his name?

Speaker 4 (01:49:28):
Yeah, if you if you let these two guys go
and you don't get them, are you failing.

Speaker 9 (01:49:33):
I think there's I think there's one other guy that
there's complications, So I don't know if it's a true candidate,
But Brian Flores is the only other guy that I
think is in the category with those two. If you
throw out the lawsuit against the league, which is a
big thing to just throw out, but just on merit,
it to me it's a two and a half horse
race just on marriage. I know you're able, John's I

(01:49:55):
get your.

Speaker 5 (01:49:55):
Point for it. I just I just feel like I
I push back a little bit that they're really interested
in anybody other than No, but the guys that you.

Speaker 4 (01:50:05):
Think about these guys as free agents, you know, like
if and these are wide receivers, if the two top
wide receivers are out there and you're you know, taking
your time, you're going to miss out on the two
best wide receivers.

Speaker 5 (01:50:17):
Yeah, but it's not apples to apples because you don't
have to wait until the season's over to sign a
wide receiver like that you have to wait to free agency.
Everybody starts in the same spot.

Speaker 4 (01:50:27):
I know.

Speaker 5 (01:50:28):
Like, so that's but.

Speaker 4 (01:50:29):
If you don't act quickly, you lose out.

Speaker 5 (01:50:31):
Yeah, okay, so I know the Patriots lost out when
they signed Bill Belichick, but they waited until February to
do it and won six Super Bowls.

Speaker 4 (01:50:37):
Well, they had to give up a first round pick
to do that. That wasn't apples to apples.

Speaker 5 (01:50:43):
It's not. But what I'm saying is, let's not equate
waiting with failing, because it doesn't mean that you failed.
If you take a little time to make the.

Speaker 4 (01:50:52):
Right you fail to get the one of the two
best guys.

Speaker 5 (01:50:56):
No, you failed to get one of the two guys
that you've identified.

Speaker 4 (01:51:00):
Everybody's identified, doesn't right, I know, but it.

Speaker 5 (01:51:03):
Just seems as I believe that there's only two candidates.

Speaker 4 (01:51:07):
But Paul, it just seems to be such a consensus
among everybody.

Speaker 5 (01:51:11):
Because they know who the Patriots are interested in. That's
the consensus, friend.

Speaker 4 (01:51:14):
No consensus among the league that these are the two
prizes of this cycle.

Speaker 5 (01:51:21):
Listen, Ben Johnson, as Evan just said, has been at
the top of this carouself for a while.

Speaker 4 (01:51:25):
And only because he didn't want to get into the pool.
Is he not a head coach? Right?

Speaker 5 (01:51:31):
But people are talking about this because those are the
two guys that are tied, right. They're not talking about,
you know, Joe Brady, who's also getting interviews laughing, right,
How do you know he's not better than all of them?

Speaker 4 (01:51:41):
I don't know that, and neither and will.

Speaker 5 (01:51:43):
Never know because we're not interested. Well, we're interested in
the two that we've identified because the media is telling
us these are the two guys. It's that media, not
the Patriots. I'm talking about us, Like we've identified these
two us.

Speaker 4 (01:51:56):
Oh yeah, certainly. I have no idea.

Speaker 5 (01:51:59):
Now listen, I said at the start of the show,
and I'll say it now too, Like if it's Mike Rabel,
I love Mike Rabel, I think he's a really good coach. Like,
I don't want this to be coming off like I'm
going to be disappointed Mike, and I certainly won't be disappointed.
If it's the next sort of you know, new fangled
offensive mastermind in Ben Johnson, that's not going to disappoint

(01:52:20):
me either.

Speaker 4 (01:52:20):
But all I'm saying is, while we're being thorough, these
two guys are going to get job.

Speaker 5 (01:52:24):
I like these two guys, and if they get one
of those two guys, I think you probably would look
at a success. But I don't really think that you're
conducting a wide search.

Speaker 4 (01:52:33):
That's all could be.

Speaker 9 (01:52:34):
And maybe this does change, but I just think that
to see today Pep Hamilton and Byron Lefwich getting in
person interviews as coaching free agents, it just it just doesn't.
It rose me the wrong way.

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
Well, that's all I mean.

Speaker 9 (01:52:50):
Yeah, And so now we're just gonna like I just
I want to know in the press conference is because
this is like we're getting to the point where this
thing is obviously already been been wrapped up.

Speaker 5 (01:53:02):
And that's I guess That's all I'm saying is I
wish that we were interviewing more people, interested in more people.

Speaker 4 (01:53:10):
I wish there were more people to interview.

Speaker 5 (01:53:12):
And there's a ton of people to interview.

Speaker 4 (01:53:14):
I mean, like top quality guys.

Speaker 5 (01:53:16):
I think there were a ton of people to interview.

Speaker 9 (01:53:18):
Really yeah, I think if you look at the lists,
you know, if they were interviewing I don't need it
to be fifteen guys, but if they were interviewing Rabel
Johnson Brady, Aaron Glenn, Brian Flores like those.

Speaker 5 (01:53:33):
Liam Cohen, those are the top guys.

Speaker 9 (01:53:35):
So if you interview five, four or five six of
those guys, then that's a legitimate search and it.

Speaker 5 (01:53:41):
Could still come back to and I would agree with you.
Rabel and Johnson, those are the two top ones. Like
I don't let's push what happens. I'm not pushing back
on that at all.

Speaker 4 (01:53:51):
I mean about these two guys today, but I don't
know who the rest of the week they're gonna interview.

Speaker 5 (01:53:55):
Yeah, and then I'll we'll have a show on Thursday,
and you know, maybe they've interviewed four other guys and
I'm like, this is That's all I wanted to thank you.
This is exactly what I was hoping for.

Speaker 4 (01:54:05):
I've seen other teams, like you know, go on social
media and list the interviews they have lined up. We
haven't done that or won't do that. I don't know, but.

Speaker 5 (01:54:14):
That'd be great. But if they teams are moving fast,
you know, like if that happens, I'd be I'd really
be happy about that. And then again it can be Rabel.
I'm fine with that.

Speaker 4 (01:54:23):
Yeah, let's go to Ian and Raleigh North Carolina. What's up? Ian?

Speaker 5 (01:54:28):
Hi?

Speaker 26 (01:54:29):
How are you guys?

Speaker 4 (01:54:29):
Good? Hello?

Speaker 26 (01:54:31):
I just wanted to call because you know, I've been
talking with a lot of my friends here actually in
North Carolina about the Patriots head coach and search and
everything like that. Kind of what we determined was, I
hope that the fans can understand that while I don't
always agree with it, Mike Grabile was fired from Tennessee,
and I think he's a great head coach and I
would be happy with him, and the same thing with
it Jonathan. He's never head coached like anywhere before. So

(01:54:56):
I just worry that, you know, these things take time,
that one of these guys is going to get in
here and it's not going as well as fans hoped
it would early, and that we don't give up like
a year in, we're doing this again. I just hope
like fans can understand that Ben Johnson many a little
time once gets in to be a head coach.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
Well, Ian, I hear what you're saying, and I hope
I agree with you. But what if it looks as
bad or worse than Gerard's first year? What do you do?

Speaker 5 (01:55:22):
I pulled a plug?

Speaker 4 (01:55:24):
Yeah, Well that's the thing. That's the thing I.

Speaker 5 (01:55:30):
Pulled the plug, right.

Speaker 9 (01:55:31):
I don't think there's any chance of that happening.

Speaker 5 (01:55:33):
Well, then I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:55:34):
I don't think it can't make a blanket statement that
you always need to give a person time, not when
it's a complete because it was.

Speaker 5 (01:55:44):
He didn't get fired because they went four and thirteen.

Speaker 4 (01:55:46):
Right. It's just extremely But I agree with Ian. You
hope that whoever it is shows enough promise that you're
giving them time.

Speaker 9 (01:55:55):
There's no doubt that the personnel side of it is
going to have to catch up. But it just is
really encouraging to me that Ben Johnson has held his
water for as long as he has. Give you another example,
like Tamiko Ryans did the same thing. Demiko Ryans could
have been a head coach two years earlier than what
he ended up being in Houston because he said, I'm
going to learn. I'm going to be patient, I'm going

(01:56:15):
to wait for the right job. I'm going to learn
the tricks of the trade. I'm going to be ready
when my opportunity comes. I'm going to be ready. And
that's exactly what Ben Johnson has done. And so I
just can't imagine that he's finally going to make the
leap and be an epic disaster. He's got too much training.

Speaker 4 (01:56:31):
Yeah, let's go to Boston Cream. What's up Boston Cream?

Speaker 25 (01:56:36):
Hey guys, I feel like I'm the last collar here.
I'm like the hammer and curling or like the closer.

Speaker 4 (01:56:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 25 (01:56:42):
Uh quick question for Evan.

Speaker 7 (01:56:44):
Have you washed?

Speaker 25 (01:56:45):
I have you watched Josh Simmons? And what do you think?

Speaker 9 (01:56:49):
I have watched Josh Simmons?

Speaker 25 (01:56:50):
Yes, what do you think?

Speaker 9 (01:56:53):
It's a it's a it's a tough one with context
that I don't know if we have four minutes for.
But you know, he was very, very good against bad competition,
so we never got to see him against the top
level competition on Ohio State schedule. So that's the catch is.
You know, when he's playing Iowa and Michigan State and
you know whatever, you know, Western Michigan and all these schools,

(01:57:13):
he looked dominant. But would he have done the same
against you know, Michigan, Oregon, you know the college football playoff?
Now we don't know he got hurt.

Speaker 25 (01:57:25):
That's very fair.

Speaker 4 (01:57:26):
I feel like, can you fill me in on Hua.

Speaker 5 (01:57:28):
He's a twenty twenty three version of college tackles yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:57:33):
Version.

Speaker 9 (01:57:33):
He was Ohio State's left tackle and he's got all
of the tools, you know, long, athletic, explosive, great blocker.
But he got hurt after five games this year, blew
out his knee towards a cluh pretty severe injury, and
so he did get to the meat of Ohio State schedule,
so he didn't actually play the tough opponents this year.

(01:57:54):
So he dominated bad competition in the year.

Speaker 7 (01:57:58):
Right, that wasn't very bostible creamy.

Speaker 5 (01:58:01):
Yeah, like a real football question, but he's very cerebral.

Speaker 7 (01:58:04):
What are we doing well?

Speaker 25 (01:58:06):
And my next question is, how come no one's talking
about urban Meyer?

Speaker 5 (01:58:10):
There you go, you go, Okay, way to bring Now
you really are the closer. Good job, Boston.

Speaker 9 (01:58:15):
There are some college coaches in the cycle, not Urban Meyer.

Speaker 4 (01:58:18):
Well, what about Steve Sarkisian.

Speaker 9 (01:58:20):
I love that idea, but it's not going to happen.

Speaker 4 (01:58:22):
Why coach?

Speaker 9 (01:58:23):
I just don't think they'll do that because you know,
there's obviously a stigma against hiring college coaches like him.
I love Steven, but he has NFL experience. He has
NFL experience. That's that's the difference. If he's coordinated at
the NFL level successfully with Atlanta. But he's yeah, he's
one of the best offensive minds at any level of football,
but he's a college coach.

Speaker 4 (01:58:45):
Okay, all right, well listen. That's it for this edition
of Patriots Unfiltered. Tomorrow I mean yeah tomorrow, Catch twenty
two yep, tomorrow and Patriots Playbook and.

Speaker 5 (01:58:56):
Times Catch twenty two twelve to two, twelve to two.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
We will be back on Thursday with another edition of
Patriots Unfiltered. Until then, thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (01:59:05):
Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, Google Play,
and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, please rate
and review us. Listener comments and ratings help keep us
high in the podcast rankings so new listeners can find us.
Be sure to check Patriots dot com for more news
and more podcasts.

Speaker 4 (01:59:26):
The World's a vegeinal podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
Patriots Catch twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:59:35):
We'll join Evan Lazar and Alex Bart every Thursday as
they take a deep dive into the x of the
o's trends and latest New England Patriots roster moves.

Speaker 9 (01:59:43):
You're not usually into the numbers, Okay, we do this.

Speaker 21 (01:59:47):
I'm into the tangible numbers.

Speaker 23 (01:59:48):
There's there's tame here.

Speaker 9 (01:59:49):
Just give me.

Speaker 1 (01:59:50):
There's the advantage.

Speaker 9 (01:59:52):
I'm surprised an old man over here. I thought maybe
i'd have to show you, like a tutorial or something.

Speaker 5 (01:59:57):
How am I old man?

Speaker 2 (01:59:58):
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