Patriots Unfiltered 8/19: Vikings Leftovers, Recent Practice Observations, Injury Updates and Giants Preview

Watch as the PU crew offer some leftover observations from the Patriots win over the Vikings. We offer some recent practice updates and discuss some recent roster moves as well as a few injury updates.  Plus, we preview Thursday's preseason finale against the New York Giants.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Some of the content of Patriots Unfiltered may not be
suitable for all audiences.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Listener discretion is advised. The World's a vigeonal podcast. Welcome
to Patriots Unfiltered. Oh yeah, yeah, we'll have Mike ravel
live when he starts up at I think about twelve
forty five or so. He's been pretty prompt on his

(00:26):
birthday today, on his birthday.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Fiftieth birthday.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Yeah, I didn't realize he was a Leo until last night.

Speaker 5 (00:31):
But that's great news for us.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, why if things start to click all of a sudden, Yeah,
you've got what Paul considers weapons.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yes, keep your very friendly here.

Speaker 6 (00:42):
It's just everywhere you walk in. Welcome back, great to
see you.

Speaker 7 (00:45):
Like, are you sure.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Where is Evans? He's down Yonder somewhere else, so he
can do clinics and everybody else. But he can't do this.
There is no legitimacy to astrology. It's a gateway drug
to conspiracy. For I don't put you that up. I
see she's getting mad. I don't know. There's an interesting
rabbit hole anyway, Johnson.

Speaker 6 (01:06):
That intersex Christianity and the tyrology and the Venn diagram
where those two things meet.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
It's just a fascinating rabbit hole.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
There you go, so right on the ViRGE of Leo.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm on the verge of tears.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
This is Patriot's Unfiltered, presented by Toyota's official website.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
For deals, buy a Toyota dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
All right, welcome the Patriots Unfiltered. It is Tuesday here
at Jillette Stadium. It's me and Paul Evan and Duce
will be here shortly. They're finishing up their team assignments.
But we had a lot to talk about. We'll talk
about the preseason game that we saw in the Star
of that game.

Speaker 8 (01:45):
Obviously, I'm going to need more information.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Oh you know who it is.

Speaker 8 (01:51):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I didn't say one.

Speaker 8 (01:54):
Good for your friend, Okay, good for you.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
All right, we'll talk about him, but we'll also talk
about getting ready for the end of the season. I
know they have another preseason game with the Giants coming
up on Thursday.

Speaker 8 (02:06):
But it's coming fast now.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, all indications are that it's not going to be
a lot of name people playing in this one. We'll see,
but I don't think so. I mean, they signed a
running back, I think just because they probably won't be
playing any of the starting running back well.

Speaker 8 (02:24):
And they've banged up a little bit too, So yeah,
I mean I thought, based on the way Vrabel spoke
on Monday, I think you're right. I think they planned
on getting the you know, the front line guys a
fair amount of work and these these practices and probably
going to play, you know, some of the younger guys
the bulk of the game on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
And I also want to talk about a report that's
out that the Patriots are one of the teams that
reached out to the Bengals.

Speaker 8 (02:49):
About when you raise your eyebrows like that, I get
on my seat. I didn't hear that report, but I
want to hear your version of their I.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Heard there were three teams that reached out to the
Bengals on Hendrixon And now, you know, if I was
the Patriots, I'd be reaching out on everybody to see
you know. So I don't think that's really breaking news
at all. But I think it's just a topic for conversation.

Speaker 8 (03:15):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
You know, I hear that the Bengals, and again this
is all things I hear, are looking for a first
round pick. I don't know if you'd be willing to
do that. I'm not sure I would. That's certainly not
in the near future. But I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. You know,
let's let's go, let's let's talk to these teams. What
would it take to bring in a guy who was

(03:37):
the league sack leader last year, even though he's thirty
years old. Let's do that. I mean, he's that's that
was last year that he led the league in sacks.

Speaker 8 (03:45):
Yeah, No, he's a good player. He's probably is worth
a first round pick. Yeah, he's only thirty. It's not
like he's thirty four. Well, he probably still has You know,
you're going to sign this contract. He's got another contract
left for them that you should expecting to continue to
be reasonably close to this production. I kind of agree
with your hesitation and your voice. I don't know if

(04:07):
I'm reading too much into that, but I'm not sure
the Patriots are at the place right now where signing
one player to lose a draft pick that high makes
enough sat. I wouldn't hate it. I wouldn't be I
wouldn't be ranting and raven by adding that kind of time.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I realized there's money involved in this too, so you
have to factor that in but big.

Speaker 8 (04:27):
Big contract. But they have that, and they have the
million in cash space.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
So let's forget about the money for a second. Would
the Patriots be able next year to draft somebody who's
better than him in the first round?

Speaker 8 (04:42):
So more than likely.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, But.

Speaker 8 (04:46):
That's a little bit of a flawed way of doing it, okay,
And you and I both do that a lot. We
do that same theory that you just did. I'm not
making fun of you for doing it. We both do that.
I know you know who you're going to get that's
better than him. We both have that ment. The question
would be, would you reasonably expect to get a solid

(05:07):
contributor for the next five to seven years with that
first round pick? Right as opposed to will that guy
be as good as Trey Hendrickson right now at age thirty?

Speaker 2 (05:15):
You know what I mean? Right?

Speaker 8 (05:16):
So, so like if you let's say, let's say let's
say Will Campbell is your left tackle for the next
seven years. Yes, and he's a good left tackle. He
doesn't have to be an all Pro, but he's a
good left tackle. Is that more valuable than signing Trey
Hendrickson right now? Like that caliber of player possession that's
the quest. Well, I'm just saying that's the question, right, right,
But if you if you bust on the first round

(05:38):
pick and you don't hit it, sure, I'd rather have
Trey Henderson.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
We started out by talking about his age, and like
you said, if he was thirty three or thirty four,
I think I think it would be a hard no
first round pick. But conceivably you're still going to be
able to get three years out of this guy.

Speaker 8 (05:52):
Maybe if you sure, yeah, before you know, I'd be
I'd be strongly interested. I'm glad that to find out,
hopefully that reports accurate, but I'm glad to find out
they're actively pursuing these kinds of possibilities. I hope that
they're making calls to Dallas too about Micah.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Parsons, Michael and the Commanders's he's.

Speaker 8 (06:10):
Younger, you know, Parsons, and that would obviously cost you
a lot more. But yeah, I want the Patriots that
Elliott Wolf said that yesterday, that they they're actively involved
in all these all these conversations. I want them to be.
I want them to be players in all of these situations.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
That's their job. Their job is to turn over every
rock and see what's available. I don't care if it's Canada, Europe,
free agents, disgruntled players, whatever. They should be looking at
everything and making the call, you know, just asking the question,
getting the information. That's that's what every team does that
I'm sure you know.

Speaker 8 (06:48):
So now the question becomes, you know, with with Hendrickson right,
can you lower the draft capital by adding some of
the veterans that seem to be on the back burner
right now and your plans? My answer would be no.
If I'm Cincinnati, you don't think so. Now, I don't
think that.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
I haven't. I haven't evaluated their depth chart, but you know,
there might be some weaknesses that maybe an Anthrody Jennings
maybe he fits there better than here. Maybe a Kyle
dug Er fits there better than here. I don't know.

Speaker 8 (07:17):
So if I'm Kansas, if Kansas City, if I'm Cincinnati,
I'm just going to give Trey Hendrickson the money rather
than give money to Kyle Dugger because I don't necessarily
think he fixed you know, he fixes the problem that
I have. I'm trying to get my finances situated in
strengthening my team. But those are the kinds of things

(07:39):
that you know, can I Can I send him a
second round pick instead of a first round pick if
I add in a veteran player or two. I don't
know the answer is, I don't know, but that's what
I'd be looking into. We started throwing around different player names.
You know, so obviously Patriots fans want to Trey Dugger

(07:59):
and Jenning because it certainly seems that this current coaching
staff is nobally interested in those two players. But everybody
else knows that too. You're a four and thirteen team
and that these guys aren't good enough to play for you.
I'm going to take them for my guy who led
the league in sacks last year. Yeah, probably not. But
now you start thinking, well, what are some other veteran
players that you might be able to to give up?

(08:22):
You know, like with Keon White, could that fetch something?

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I would think? So, are you're willing to give him up?

Speaker 8 (08:29):
Marcus Jones? You know, you know in the in the
secondary for Cincinnati was a huge problem last year.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 8 (08:37):
So, me, Evan and Mike were talking at practice. We're
throwing a bunch of names out, and I think Evan
brought up Marcus Jones, and I was like, I'd have
to think about that one a little bit. You know,
if for both sides, I'm not sure he'd be valuable enough.
But can he drop the draft pick down a round
or two?

Speaker 7 (08:56):
You know?

Speaker 8 (08:57):
So interesting that we had good in his mic. You know,
we had some some good, good media banter while watching it.
We were talking about the you know, the potential veteran
guys that you'd throw in a trade to try to
get maybe Trey Hendrickson. Yeah, you know, we threw out
like Keon White or Marcus Jones. You know, like obviously
everybody wants to give up Anthony Jennings and Kyle Duger

(09:19):
because it seems like Rabel has no role for those guys.
Well they know that too, you know, I.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
Think On White's an interesting name. It's just coming up
that practice.

Speaker 9 (09:28):
There was one field at the end of practice that
looks like the guys that are going to play tomorrow.
And over there guy who started the training camp off
as a fixture there on one of the defensive end positions,
and now it looks like he's still trying to figure
out a role.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Did you talk about Mike Smith saying.

Speaker 8 (09:43):
I hadn't gotten to that yet. We got a chance
to talk to the defensive coaching staff today. We did
offense last week. Mike Smith is working with the edge guys,
the outside guys, and there was a question asked of
him about Keon White, you know, sort of showing some
flash is what's been the key to try to get
him unlocked so he has more consistency, And Mike Smith said,

(10:06):
you know, we need to find a home for you know,
like one spot.

Speaker 10 (10:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (10:10):
Now, unfortunately none of us followed up by saying, well
what spot do you think that is? What's the best
spot for him?

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Or I would like why, like is he better being
moved around? Like that's kind of like what they've been
doing right.

Speaker 8 (10:26):
Right, And he talked about how that can be difficult
to do because you're dealing with all kinds of different
zone reads, and you know, you play that this way
if you're in here, you play that this way if
you're out here, you know, in different He used different
examples like that. Sure, but I just wish that we
had followed up and said, you know what to your

(10:47):
your experience with Keon, what do you think is the
best fit for him? He talked a lot about his
physicality and violence. Yeah, so I took from that and
maybe he thinks he's better served on the inside, but
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (10:59):
I think that's where has been the best, is rushing
on guards and going right through guys. And you haven't
seen the development with the array of pass rush moves.
Chase On being a good example, a guy who came
in and you see all these different moves that he
throws at will Campbell off the edge. You don't really
see that from Keyon White. So also just like getting
to know this scheme a little bit.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
Which I tried to talk.

Speaker 9 (11:21):
To some of the defensive coaches about today and none
of them will say anything about it, is that it
seems like those no I know, but they're like, but
they didn't break down the scale, you.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Know, but it was it was like a hard stop,
like a hard stop.

Speaker 9 (11:34):
Because I went to Zach Krer, who pron cor I
correct pronunciation of that.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
I think we called him current the.

Speaker 9 (11:39):
Past, but Zach Korr, and something I've been interested in
is this is such a diverse coaching staff from so
many different trees, and even Terrell Williams specifically has been
in so many different defensive systems, you know, going back
to Detroit last year, but you know, go back with
Rabel and then connecting like what Rabel ran here as
a player, and then under Romeo con and a little

(12:00):
bit under Demps. There's just so many different threads of
schemes coming in.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
It's just what is this scheme?

Speaker 9 (12:05):
And I wasn't trying to get him to tell me
what it is, And really the only thing Zach would
tell me was it's about versatility for us, which is
kind of what we've heard all the time.

Speaker 8 (12:14):
But I would would have gotten it out of there.

Speaker 9 (12:16):
Oh okay, but I would say what I've noticed about
the two edge positions Harold Landry, Calavon Chase on that
spot within this scheme is that they're going to ask
those guys to do everything. They're gonna ask them, they're
gonna drop them out sometimes, and so that kind of
ability to play up and back. And I've never thought
that Keon White has looked super comfortable doing that. He
looks like he's straightforward, go right through a guy doesn't

(12:36):
really have the savvy. So it's like it's the same
thing we're talking about with with Anphonye. Jennings to an
extent different version of that. But how does his skill
set fit into what they're trying to put together right now.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
I don't know, So let's let's take a little detour
for a second. You just came from practice and tell
us you know about practice.

Speaker 9 (12:55):
Yeah, I thought, you know, the offense in early semi
competitive peers they were an uppers lowers, which are still
trying to figure out exactly what that means when they
do that. Or we were kind of thudding, but we're
not really in.

Speaker 8 (13:06):
Pads they have.

Speaker 11 (13:08):
Oh was it?

Speaker 4 (13:09):
I did see the shoulder pads.

Speaker 8 (13:10):
Now it's the same as last week, those early practices
with no usually.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
They're in paths, they have the pants.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, I got to get better recognizing that.

Speaker 9 (13:22):
To me, it looked a little more clunky in the
earlier team periods ups and downs, and then in the
last competitive period where it looked like they needed a
field goal, Drake looked better.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
It was a better series there for him. He completed
some nice passes.

Speaker 9 (13:35):
Uh So, getting to a point now where you kind
of have to shut it down and we'll see in
week one. You know, you don't know what they're working on,
so that some of them are on the other fields
getting ready clearly to play on THIRSD.

Speaker 8 (13:47):
Side of telling Freddy that it's like it's starting to
like get a little bit faster, you know, like it
feels like they just played and now they got another
game right now, And like fred said, you know, it
certainly looks like some of those frontline guys are not
going to play the game. So before you know it,
you're gonna have that cutdown day, which is what next
next weaston today.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right and then maybe not though.

Speaker 8 (14:09):
They're going to have your first uh, your first iteration
anyway of the fifty three man roster. I know that'll
change a lot, but yeah, you know it's it's it's
coming quick.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
So let's go back to the game. We'll start there.
That happened on Saturday, And I told Paul we're going
to be talking a lot about the player of the game.
All feigned ignorance, and I.

Speaker 8 (14:31):
Just state emphatically, I'm not feigning. This is the least
knowledge of the whole week that I've ever watched. I
didn't see, I didn't have the ability to. I didn't
I didn't see any I didn't see. Yeah, I don't
really know a whole lot about the two practices other
than what I've read and as i've pointed out to Mike,

(14:52):
the one thing that I always regret when I miss
a practice is I don't trust anybody, anybody.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
I hear you.

Speaker 8 (15:00):
So I've read a lot about the practices. I've read
wildly different views of the practices. So I don't really
even know what went on there. And I didn't see
any of the games.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, well, so.

Speaker 8 (15:08):
I can't argue that you will get no arguments from
me about anything with the game. I don't see it.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
So let's start the way the game started. And the
Patriots had their front line offense in there for the
most part to start, and Drake, you know, played a
couple series, was a.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Two two series.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
He was he was high on a lot of his throws,
missed guys high and you know, five alarms, everybody, everybody
is just you know, in panic mode on most of
Paul's shows about Drake may And yes, he was high.
He you know, he missed pop on, he was wide open,
was too high in him, was too high to Hollands

(15:45):
on the sideline. Hollins made the catch, but I think
a better throw would have you know, resulted in some
yards after catch. But at least he saw the guys,
So that's step one. He didn't miss that, the guys
were there, he just was too high in his throws.
So there's that extended a couple of plays nicely. But
here's something I was thinking, and you guys can correct me.

(16:06):
I'm gonna pose this as a question, how many starting
NFL quarterbacks are lighting it up in preseason games?

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Well, Caleb Williams let it up. That's one to Joe Burrow.

Speaker 8 (16:20):
I think Joe Burrow's played five series and had four touchdowns,
Is that right? Yeah, But this is a huge departure
for Cincinnati because they never play anybody in the preseason
and they've gotten to these slow starts, so they're trying
to do something.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (16:33):
So I don't think most frontline guys play a lot.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Like I remember games where Tom Brady started off a
little bit too jacked up and was a little bit
high on his throes. I remember those, and then he
would settle down. In the preseason, you're working on something
specific things in the two series that you're gonna play.
It's it's basically probably scripted, and then that's it. You
don't get a chance to go beyond that if you

(16:59):
start off a little rusty. So I'm not gonna get
all worked up over some high throws.

Speaker 12 (17:05):
What.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I love to see him being on target right from
the get go, absolutely, So I'm not gonna I'm not
going to make excuses for Drake may but I'm not
going to panic either, Like I'm hearing people say, well,
you may not be the guy, like seriously based off
these preseason games. So it's it's way way way too
early for that.

Speaker 9 (17:25):
Yeah, I've given a lot of praise to Drake. I
think he's looked very poised through the spring and into
the summer. And that's the best thing I can say
about him right now is that no matter what was
happening with pressure or you know, some of the guys
when there were things happening around him bad play, he's
shown great poise. I just think overall he's been really
inconsistent and there's been, you know, some inconsistent throws. I

(17:47):
think the biggest takeaway, and this i'l Tevan up for
this is the biggest takeaway I had from when I grinded.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
The film a little bit was that there are guys open.

Speaker 9 (17:54):
I mean, it's clearly like Josh is getting guys open
down the field throws that.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
I felt like last year he would have not hesitated
to rip.

Speaker 9 (18:02):
He didn't really rip him in that preseason game, like
you said, Fred, maybe they were working on something. So
I see it there and I just need Drake to
start to put it all together. And I think that's
what we're waiting for, and that's why we're going in
to close it download. It might be see a week one,
but I'm expecting him a little bit of inconsistency. He
looks comfortable in the offense, but I think the way
that it's manifesting itself is that he's not always seeing it.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
It's not always consistent.

Speaker 9 (18:26):
And again, as Rabel said after the game, this is,
you know, third preseason game of this first regime.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
We're trying to get it right. We have to get
it right.

Speaker 9 (18:35):
So I'm patient because I see the players are there
to be made and I see some better weapons around him.
But there's no question he's got to be more consistent
and he's got to stop spraying the ball occasionally, which
he did like going back.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
To last year.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
Yeah, I'm most concerned about the phrase and more concerned
about himory in the field right now. I think the
sphrase you're gonna have to live with some of those
with the type of quarterback and thrower that he is,
and I have faith that Josh McDaniels will piece him
into these with the play calling and try to get
him settled in.

Speaker 13 (19:02):
It's a big thing with a.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
Lot of quarterbacks, you know. I think Brady had some
of it a little bit. Brett farre certainly, that's like
sort of talked about a lot that he was one
of those guys that was just so amped up going
into the game that they would actually call runs and
short passes on purpose to try to get him into
the game a little bit and slow him down. The
more concerning thing to me is he's having trouble with

(19:27):
post snap rotation. So the defense is showing him one
thing pre snap, and then they're falling out into a
different coverage, and he's holding the football like he's not
once he sees that rotation, he's indecisive and not exactly
sure what he's looking at. So it happened on the
strip sack against Washington. They spun it and he held
the football. It happened a couple of times in the

(19:49):
game against Minnesota, And the one that's going around is
the one that he ends up completing the Matt Collins,
but he had two open receivers within the structure or
the play that might have been touchdowns if he puts
the ball on Douglas and Kyle Williams down the field.
So you know, Brian Forlors did some tricky things, like
they get to cover two in different ways from different looks,

(20:11):
and I think.

Speaker 13 (20:12):
Some of that came up in both games.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
So, like I said, Le's concerned about the sprays because
that's that's it, Like he's gonna have one or two
of those a game.

Speaker 13 (20:22):
A little bit more concerned about how he's reading the
field at this point.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Okay, fair enough. You know you would love to see
him play like a whole half or you know, to
kind of get into a groove. It's tough.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
That's what's interesting to me.

Speaker 9 (20:34):
I mean, maybe i'm again sometimes these things pop into
my head and you know, you guys will be like, no,
you're wrong, this is how it happens. But yeah, we
had some joint practices, but really haven't seen much of
him in the actual preseason games and maybe we don't
need to, but that stounds out to me as something
that's a little bit different. I think you usually at
least see a starting quarterback play a whole first half.
But maybe they like the work they're getting in the

(20:55):
joint practice. I think like they need.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Nowadays you don't. I think it's become more of the
norm that you don't see these eyes play a hole certainly.

Speaker 8 (21:02):
Yeah, I would say the established guys do not play.
But there's an argument to be made that he's not
Caleb Williams, Drake May second year, you know, I mean
Jade and Daniels didn't even attempt to pass and he played.
He didn't play. He didn't play in the Patriots game,
but he played last night, didn't even attempt to pass,
played four plays and he ran in, as Evan said,

(21:24):
for a touchdown.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
Kind of like they had a I think it was
a battle or safety had and Daniels lined up and
he actually.

Speaker 13 (21:34):
Didn't hit him.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Was that right?

Speaker 14 (21:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 13 (21:36):
And everybody was getting on battle for it, and I think.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
Respect.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, we got a bad mic here, Okay, so we
got we got some in show repairs.

Speaker 8 (21:50):
So but I do feel like, for the most part,
I agree with you, Fred. I don't think that a
lot of starting quarterbacks get any kind of extended time,
you know, gone the days of that third preseason game
that was the dress rehearsal where you know, like the
whole first unit would play the whole first half and
then the first drive of the second half to go

(22:11):
through the half to No one does that anymore. I
mean when I say no one, I'm sure that someone
has done it in the last few years. But you know,
Patrick Mahomes and those guys Josh Allen, they don't get
any if you know, much, if at any at all.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I think it's playing issue. But I'm in the minority.
You know. People are like, Okay, September football will suck,
so I think, but better.

Speaker 8 (22:36):
But do you think September football is just getting worse
because I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
That's what I'm being told.

Speaker 8 (22:42):
No, I think it's just always been bad.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, Oh you think it's always been bad.

Speaker 8 (22:46):
Yeah. I mean Bill used to use it as an
extension of the preseason in the heart of the dynasty when.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
They you know, well, he knew he was you know,
he knew he was old.

Speaker 8 (22:54):
But I'm just saying I think September football has always
been sort of less than ideal. Yeah, you don't really
know what you have until you get you know, you
get into the heart of like say October, and you
sort of settle in. You know what everybody else is doing.
They know what you were doing. You made your adjustments.
Now you figure it out.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Well, at least we're not the Colts, right They announced
today that Daniel Jones is going to be their starter.

Speaker 8 (23:16):
Does it really, Mattery dimes.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
It matters that they might have whiffed on their quarterback selection.

Speaker 8 (23:21):
Well, I don't think there's any might. I think that
ship is saled. Well, I watched the last two years.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
I'm saying, like, here's a new season. He still had
a chance to win his job and he couldn't do
it Richardson, And so they're kind of starting over because
I don't think Daniel. I don't think they're looking at
Daniel Jones as their quarterback of the future, right, I
doubt it.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
I think that staff is kind of on the hot
seat too. And because Richardson I think has played pretty
well in the preseason for what it's worth, but he's
so volatile that if you're a coach that needs to
win right now, then hitching your wagon to Anthony Richardson
is dicey yep.

Speaker 8 (23:57):
And at least if you're you know, I agree with em,
and I think Shane Steichen is looking at it as
kind of like Brian Dable when we were talking in
the draft, like they're gonna have to find a way
to win some games, and Daniel Jones has at least
had some success in the NFL, Anthony Richardson really hasn't.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
All right, so off of calls back to our team.
So we talked about Drake's performance in that preseason game
in Minnesota. Offensive line. Again, I'm going to use the
same caveat I gave to Drake. If I'm not going
to like panic about Drake for two series, I'm not
going to like judge too much about what I saw
from the offensive line. But for the most part, I
think it was it was pretty good. Would you guys

(24:33):
agree or not?

Speaker 8 (24:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yeah, toenerally speaking, sure.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
It's really small sample size for the starters Campbell, those
guys played like fifteen snaps, not a ton of like
real drop back passing either, So you only saw like
one or two traditional dropbacks in the entire game for
those starters. But I think the only thing that you know,
maybe a little bit of a question mark right now
at center. I don't know if Garrett Bradberry is is

(25:01):
solidified right now as the starting center. It could be
Ben Brown, could be Jared Wilson. We saw a rotation
in there today.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Spots. I mean, I would think right now that the
question marks in the line is left guard and center. Yes,
I with my guess and this is just a guess.
Ben Brown's going to start at center and uh, I
mean I'm sorry, Ben Brown's going to start at guard
and Bradbury's going to start at center. Oh, that's that's

(25:31):
my guess right now.

Speaker 5 (25:32):
Yeah, I think it depends on like how how much
they're willing to kind of roll the dice with a
younger player and Jared Wilson, Because I think there's no
question that Jared Wilson's a better player than Garrett Bradberry.
But he's going to take some rookie.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Right, I'm just saying to start, right.

Speaker 5 (25:47):
So do you live with those out of the gate
and let him grow as a player, or you know,
Bradberry's had some issues in pass protection. You know he
in practice and in the games. So at what point
do you say that Jared Wilson is just a better
player right than Garrett Brad.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Hopefully sooner than later. But now I want to tie
in the offensive line to Drake's performance. So, Evan, you
mentioned that you think Drake might have trouble seeing the field.
That's your your concerns sort of right now rather than.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
Last year.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
I'm just does McDaniels in in the and the coaches
have to work with Drake about resetting his clock, his
mental clock from last year to this year, where by
the end of the season his mental clock had to
be sped up because he didn't really have any time
to do anything. And maybe now you have to say, Drake,
forget about last year. That clock has to be reset

(26:44):
because you're going to have a little bit more time.
You're going to have to stay in there, a little
bit longer than you got used to staying in last year.
Is that something you think that could be an issue
about why maybe he's not seeing the field the way
you think he should or should have in that game.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Yeah, maybe, I definitely think that's possible. On one of
the plays, he looked like he had Kyle Williams uncovering
over the middle of the field on the throwaway, the
one he threw it away towards the end of his
second drive, and he didn't hang in there. You know,
he saw a flash of pressure coming up the middle,
little stunt inside, and he saw the guy coming free

(27:20):
and he just got out of there. If he had
hung in there for an extra beat and just kind
of feathered the ball over the first level to Kyle Williams.
Kyle Williams gonna have all sorts of space in the
middle of the field. So maybe on like once or twice,
I've seen some of that, but a lot of what
I saw from the Minnesota tape was just Brian Flora's

(27:40):
disguising coverage and when Drake may doesn't get the coverage
that he's expecting, like how is his reaction to improvising
at that point? Because I think Josh McDaniel is one
of those coordinators that's gonna give you a bunch of
coverage beaters. And when they anticipate a coverage and then
they don't get that coverage, like, how do you react
to that post snap? You know, when they show like

(28:04):
the slot receiver goes in motion, it looks like it's
man to man and then all of a sudden they
fall into cover two. Like that's a different look than
what you were expecting. So how do you react to that? Like,
those are the couple of things.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
But that came up to me. That's becoming offense one
on one in the NFL because all teams are doing that.
They are It's all about deception, right, So if you're
not good at that, I don't know how long your
career is going to be as an NFL quarterback.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
Yeah, it was crazy, Like I thought it was pretty
I didn't think that this was like vanilla coverage from
the vikings and the joint practices or the preseason game.
Now they have in a preseason game, they have the
nickel corner motioning with Pop Douglas and then dropping into
the half field as the half field safety. Like you
don't that's not You're not going to see that in

(28:53):
college or in high school football. Like that's that's NFL football.
And so when you see that type of stuff, how
does he adjust? You know, he had Pop Douglas on
that play on the linebacker in a foot race, and
like that's a race that Pop Douglas is gonna win
every single time. So you just have to trust it
and let it rip. As Deuce was saying earlier, So

(29:13):
that was just what I saw. I didn't have his
like the high throws don't bother me as much as
they do with everybody else, because I'm kind of with you.
I think he would he will settle into games and
like the amped upness that he clearly had will calm
down as the game wears on. I'm more looking at
it like, is he's seeing it correctly? And is he
seeing rotation?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Hey eye helping that? Not AI but virtual reality? How
they do that.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Would hope.

Speaker 9 (29:39):
So, I mean that seems the perfect kind of thing
where he can put on a headset and see these
kind of coverages that maybe he's not reading correctly right now.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
But a little bit of a disconnect just for me.

Speaker 9 (29:49):
You never pointed out one play, But like I said
at the top, I feel like he's generally been pretty
comfortable in the pocket, so it doesn't look like he's
panicking a lot or you know, not knowing what he's seeing.
It's that's what was so frustrating watching it, is like
there it is, Drake, you know, Like when we saw
him rip a seam throw today to Hunter Henry, it
was beautiful, and then that throw was there to be
had in the game and he didn't really seem to

(30:09):
throw it. So you're left wondering, how is it's all
going to come together in two weeks against the Raiders.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
What's it going to look like with.

Speaker 9 (30:16):
Josh having to offset their weaknesses having all their complement
of weapons that they need.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
You know, everybody seems like they're healthy right now.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
I know it sounds flippant, but it's true. Like we
talk about Drake having to get used to maybe having
a little bit more time, he might have to get
used to guys getting open, Like I don't know how
often that happened last year. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 5 (30:38):
So it's also dawned on me too about Pop in particular.
He's five foot eight, so it's not exactly the biggest
catch radius that you're throwing to in that spot. And
you know, the one that was high, Like, if that's
Mac Collins, that's not high, but because it's Pop Douglas,
that pass is high. So you have to like learn
to throw two different body types at receiver. You know,

(31:00):
the player I was talking about or Pop is winning
against the linebacker that's throwing a forty yard bomb to
a five foot eight wide receiver. And I just wonder
if there's maybe a level of trust there down the field,
Like he clearly will throw the ball to Pop underneath,
but when it comes to pushing it, let's down the field, Like,
how much trust does he have to that Pop's gonna

(31:22):
win the ball down the field?

Speaker 8 (31:24):
Yeah, I would just say, again not talking about the
game specific, but I haven't really seen him have more
time in general. The days that I watch practice, and
I think we've had eighteen practices now, and I wouldn't
even include today when they're not even in full pads,
I wouldn't say that time hasn't been an issue anymore,
like they have this fixed. You know, from what I

(31:46):
read in the joint practices, there were several would be sacks. Now,
maybe he eludes some of those because he's such a
great athlete, but I don't think time is like, you know,
he's got the time. He's just got to say. You know,
maybe there were some plays in the game that he
had the time because all the guys that applied all
the pressure and the practices didn't play in the game.

(32:07):
But based on what I've seen in practice, well, the
amount of time that he has to throw is an issue.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Well, I just say in the game. It didn't seem
like he was under duress.

Speaker 8 (32:16):
No, because they didn't play whatever. So that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
If you're to your.

Speaker 8 (32:21):
Point, like he played fifteen plays.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
I know, but if you're rushing it when you don't
have duress, what are you going to do when you
do have dress?

Speaker 8 (32:27):
You know, my guess is he's going to have duress
based on what I'm watching in practice. Yeah, so I
wouldn't get too comfortable. I just don't think my point.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
I don't think it's going to be as bad as
last year.

Speaker 8 (32:37):
It shouldn't be as bad as last year. But that's
not really saying a whole lot.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
I know.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
I it looks pretty significantly better to me than last year,
just because of how cohesive they look compared to last year.
Like you don't see, you know, the unblocked pressures, the blowbys,
the you know, alignment issues like one of those today
flags and like all that kind of stuff. You don't
see that quite as often in Minnesota. There was pressure,

(33:04):
but I actually thought he handled it really well. You know,
even Vrabel said like it could have turned into an
S storm out here, and it didn't, like he could
have Brian Flores could have put him in a blender
and he could have been throwing picks left and right
and not seeing it. And that didn't happen in Minnesota,
which made you feel positive. And then he gets into
the game and he looks tentative in the game. So
the practices he looked good, and then in the game

(33:25):
it didn't look so good. So I'm just that there's
a disconnect there between those two things that I think
is interesting. Between this past week, it was kind of
cool we got to see him out in a joint
practice for two straight days and then a game.

Speaker 8 (33:37):
And I have a question for you too, and I
haven't really brought this up off air, Jared Wilson, from
your from your viewpoint, he came, he was in and
out or out of the lineup. I think at times
on Thursday's practice performance related, physical related, and maybe a

(33:57):
little bit of both.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, ankle, he said he tweaked his ankle a little
bit and that was.

Speaker 9 (34:01):
But what do you think combination of yeah, yeah, yeah,
And it seems like he's now back in that mix,
So I don't know if that he was out of that.

Speaker 8 (34:10):
Mixed temporarily like today he was in and out yeah, yeah,
that's so, I'm just wondering if they're you know, wondering
about him.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
I think for sure he's ready.

Speaker 9 (34:18):
Oh yeah, No, I think it's uh right now, It's
feels like all three of those guys that interior that
you pointed out with brad Berry and Brown and him.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
Yeah, And have you.

Speaker 9 (34:28):
Guys experienced this where you get down to the final
preseason game and you don't really know two spots on
the offensive line.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
I mean, I guess we have had.

Speaker 8 (34:35):
Some uncertain unfortunately we did last year.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
Right, but for different reasons.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
But for the most part, you know, usually no, but
that's that was the beauty of the dynasty, is that always?

Speaker 8 (34:47):
See, That's why I'm wondering about the health. Yeah, Like
there's been times, but you don't know if so and
so is going to be ready to go. You know,
he missed most of camp he had this ankle problem,
But we don't know if he's going to be ready
to go this kind it doesn't seem like that to me.
It's just still trying to figure out what's the best five.

Speaker 5 (35:04):
Yeah. I thought he played really pretty solidly at center
in the game. He played thirteen snaps at center and
sixteen at left guard, and I thought the snaps at
center were pretty good and you can see in the
future how he could be a really dynamic center if
they keep him there. So I wonder if that's an
option this season for him moving forward, because he looks

(35:28):
like he could be a really, really good center with
some development. So I kind of took it as a
I think the initial knee jerk reaction when we were
in Minnesota was maybe a demotion, and then this injury
thing popped up for him because during warmups in Minnesota,
he was warming up with the twos, and so it
kind of felt like that.

Speaker 8 (35:46):
See, this is the insight. That's why I asked the question.
But I didn't hear any of this. I didn't read
any of this.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
I didn't like, no one wants to call it a
demotion because it's there is an injury, and it's just
as weird. It was one of those weird things of
we weren't entirely sure, but then I thought he played
a lot better in this game than he played in
the Commander's game. Then this week he's back out there
with the ones, so maybe they saw it the same
way too, and now they're like, all right, He's going
to be somewhere in the mix here.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (36:12):
One other thing on this line that Evan and I
mentioned during the practice was just a little frustrating that
they've drafted so many guards over the past, you know,
going back to twenty twenty two, that none of those
guys had really seemed to hit. I mean, Cole Strange,
Leyden Robinson, Cayden, Wallace City. So number of guys that
now were on Ben Brown who came in middle of

(36:32):
the last year as a center and now he seems
like the top.

Speaker 8 (36:35):
It's always dangerous to do this because everybody else's camp
is great.

Speaker 7 (36:41):
You know.

Speaker 8 (36:41):
You look, you look on Twitter around the league, and
everybody's got it all figured out. Because everybody at this
time of year, as Ryan Rabel loves to say, is undefeated. Right,
Jake Andrews looks like he's got a starting spot in
Houston lost Jeez to revamp because their aligne was a
train wreck last year, much like the Patriots. So they've

(37:02):
put a lot of attention, much like the Patriots, and
they decided that a guy that evidently didn't fit here
I didn't know is a possibility. Mike. He could be
the worst center.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
In football play center. Yeah, that's what he was here.

Speaker 8 (37:14):
You know, I don't know, but I'm just reading stuff
about Jake Andrews having a good camp.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
So we let get away.

Speaker 8 (37:22):
But Murphy's another one who left last year City, So
like two years I just listened to Tom Curran on
on one of my showers and you know, City, so
two years ago was a starter and someone on the
radio tried to convince me that he was a Pro
Bowl caliber player. That person is no longer in the market.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
That get out of here.

Speaker 8 (37:50):
But you know, as much as I didn't think that
he was a Pro bowler, I mean he was playing
and now he's like an afterthought on like the third group.
He's not even in the mix at all.

Speaker 5 (38:03):
Playing for a similar offense with Bill O'Brien, where you know,
you power guards and things like I'm a deuce on
that we were talking about it.

Speaker 8 (38:11):
Like, this is disappointing.

Speaker 5 (38:12):
They've drafted like five or six guys to play the
interior and none of them.

Speaker 7 (38:16):
I mean, it.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Wouldn't be that much of a deal if at the
time that they drafted these guys they had a set line, right,
But they've been really searching for these people for the
last few.

Speaker 8 (38:26):
Years, these guys have all had opportunity.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Right, Like, every year, every team drafts lineman. You need
a lot of them. You know, you've got five that
on there at a time, and guys get hurt. You
need a big room if you will alignement on every team, and.

Speaker 8 (38:40):
So you're always drafting on the roster, right right, You're.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Always drafting lineman and a lot of them don't pan out.
But on a team where you needed people to step up,
they weren't able to do that.

Speaker 5 (38:52):
Yeah, And it's kind of funny how I feel like
the tackles, maybe just because we know it's going to
be Moses and Amble, but that was the conversation all
off season was about the tackles. And now we're sitting
here three weeks ago to the season and we're talking
about the guards.

Speaker 8 (39:07):
Yeah, the only yeah, I mean the question. I don't
really feel any better about any of it. But I
know the identity of the tackles, Like Evan just said,
there is no I mean we can say say, I
don't know, I think Lowe is making them. No, Will
Campbell's gonna play left tackle and Mogan mos is going
to play right tackle. If they're healthy. Right, we know
that we don't know exactly what's going to happen at

(39:29):
left guard and center right.

Speaker 9 (39:30):
That's why, like just looking at Thursday night, left to right,
that offensive line, it's you know, Vederian Lowe, Kayden Wallace,
Cole Strange City So and Marcus Bryant at right tackle.
I think that's an interesting group to watch. You're looking
for something to watch in a final preseason game.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
I thinks a development absolutely.

Speaker 9 (39:47):
And that's and of all the guys that you drafted
as a seventh rounder, he's been shown the most promised.

Speaker 8 (39:51):
He's staying in the program.

Speaker 9 (39:53):
Yeah, sorry, Can any of those guys, especially let the
two guards, Can any of those guys show anything where
you say, she's let's hang on to this guy, maybe
there's something there. I mean, Laydon Robinson was a guy
last year that played a lot that had some positive
vibes at one time. And you know, he hasn't really
done anything to make any kind of move. He hasn't
really gotten any chance.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
Even since the spring he was running with the threes
like all the way back in you know, May and
in June, like he hasn't made any push. I don't know,
it's it. I think there's an identity for the team
and for the line that I that I think is better.
Like they're going to be able to run the ball,
I think, and they're going to be able to play physically,
and they're going to have that Vabel thing where they're
going to be able to, you know, impose their will

(40:33):
as they say, on certain teams, and be able to
run that football, especially like behind Campbell. But the pass
protection is the real question mark. Now if you play
action and do all that type of stuff off the
run game, like maybe you limit you take like instead
of twenty five drop backs, you limit that to like

(40:53):
fifteen a game, and that's a way to take the
exposure away from some of those players and pass protection.
But you know, at least there's that, Like I think
that in all these games and even in practice a
little bit, I've noticed a physicality and an ability to
run the football that's better than what we see.

Speaker 8 (41:12):
Something else we saw today that the three of us
were talking about watching practice, it looked like they were
moving the pocket a lot, trying to anyway a lot
of the stuff that Evan's talking about with the play action,
you know, the little West Coast kind of you know,
half boot the other way, leaking Trevion Henderson out. A
couple of times they would drag like Kayshawn Boudinot's you know,

(41:33):
Kayshaan booty would come across the formation because they got
everything going this way and then you're going to throw
it back across the other way.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
But let's use that as it.

Speaker 8 (41:40):
But moving pockets are going to help the past protet.

Speaker 5 (41:42):
If you can sell it, then he gets out in
space and he should be by himself.

Speaker 8 (41:46):
Now, last year when they tried those things, they could
like on the first play of the game on a
Thursday night game against the Jets and Jacoby Brissett got killed.

Speaker 9 (41:53):
Oh yeah, uh, but using that as a transition into
the other side of the ball. So that was something
we talked about in the joint practices, which you know, Paul,
you were member with the commanders.

Speaker 4 (42:00):
Here we saw zach Ertz.

Speaker 9 (42:02):
I know you were watching the d but zach Ertz
had pretty nice day, especially right out of the gate,
and then in day two all to talk about how
much the Vikings really bounced back and had a good
defensive plan. Somebody, thank you, I forget who was sent
us a tweet saying that Kevin O'Connell was micd up
on their preseason broadcast and they said, he said, and
the second day of the joint practices, they've kind of

(42:24):
schemed it up a little bit.

Speaker 10 (42:26):
Now.

Speaker 9 (42:26):
I asked that Core about that, and he's like, I
don't know about schemed it up, but we talked a
lot on the postgame show about something that this is
the kind of defense where teams are going to try
to use that aggressiveness against them with screen passes and
little dump offs to the tight ends. And you look
at who's coming in here week one with Ashton genty
and as a screen threat or Brock Bauers as you know,
a threat for the tight end position, and you know,

(42:47):
my mind schematically starts to add up, like, Okay, this
is gonna be a tough little matchup. And if the
Raiders have been kind of paying attention to what these
guys have been doing, there's probably gonna be a lot
of that stuff. There's gonna be a lot of screens
that they're gonna have to deal with. So I'm interested
to see if the.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Patriots are aware of that.

Speaker 9 (43:02):
And what I asked that Core was like, is that
helpful to you guys if you felt like you're getting
game planned a tiny bit. Just I mean, I think
that'd be really helpful to go into a practice where
it's like, hey, we're going to attack your weaknesses today
and show you what they are. And so now the
defensive players have a sense of once teams get a
sense of what our defensive scheme is, which again they're
keeping very closely wrapped up right now, we might see

(43:23):
a lot of this stuff. So it's just something to
watch as we get into that season, the ability to
use the aggressiveness against them with the way they want
to go get the ball.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
All right, let's talk wide receivers a little bit. Have
we learned anything since our last show on Thursday about
what this group is going to look like.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
There's a lot of guys hurt that right now.

Speaker 9 (43:41):
I'd say that's my headline right now because Kyle Williams, Chisholm,
Javon Baker.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
We're all out today.

Speaker 9 (43:48):
Jalen Polk, Jalen Polk and Kendrick Bourn haven't been seen
and we're going on weeks now.

Speaker 8 (43:53):
I think they added another one who I don't know
if you guys have seen on Twitter if anybody is
reported the number twenty.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
Two was they have Phil Let's yesterday yesterday tough.

Speaker 8 (44:02):
And another another small, smallish guy number twenty two in white.
You know, they don't have a lot of bodies. Yeah,
this crowded room is not as crowded right now because
five receivers didn't practice today.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
I just I'm just I don't know what's going on
with Baker, but it sounds like Chisholm is going to
be fine. Then obviously we assume that don't be We assume,
you know, Kyle Williams maybe concussion protocol. That's just a guess,
like based off of what happened in the game. So
I don't think it changes though much about like the roster,
because like you know, Kyle Williams is going to be here.

(44:39):
I think Chisham made the team. Sorry Paul so to
apologize to me. That's six guys, like I'm not one of.
I don't know everybody wants to keep seven to keep
Javon Baker around. I'm just not as as obsessed with that.

Speaker 8 (44:53):
I wouldn't keep six, So I'm not obsessed with Javon
Baker by any means.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
I think he got kind of unfairly criticized in that
last game, Baker. I mean, I think he was one
seven targets, one catch, but a lot of those throws
were way off, don't you think I do?

Speaker 9 (45:09):
But I'm just I think generally this is more of
the same, which is just riding the roller coaster, and
at a certain point you have to ask yourself, are
we ever going to be able to trust on this
guy one hundred percent of the snaps that we play
him to always do the right thing. Penalty and the
false start inside the red zone is you know, and
you could see his reaction.

Speaker 8 (45:29):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (45:29):
I'm kind of over the roller coaster with him, and
there's still a lot of people that really believe in him.
But now you come out here and tomorrow or Thursday
nights his time to shine and he I don't know
why he missed practice today.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
I mean, maybe him and Anthony Jennings are getting.

Speaker 8 (45:41):
Their packing their backs.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
And go to Washington for a trade.

Speaker 9 (45:43):
I don't know, but you know, he he's gotta, he's gotta.
I'm just sick of trying to be like, well, he's
got to get on the dad. It's like we keep
just saying the same stuff over and over again. For
a little while this summer, it felt like he was
starting to string together some practices. But then you look,
it's just the stat it's like, well, seven targets, one catch,
you know, it's yes, you're right, some throws were bad.

(46:04):
And but at the same time, you want a guy
that you think you can trust, and I have a
hard time developing trust with him right now.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
Yeah, he's just got this weird He just doesn't finish
plays like you know, all the time, like the one
in the back of the end zone, like he just
stops running his route. Yeah, yeah, I think it wasn't
a great throw, but Dobbs thought he was going to
keep running the back of the end zone and when
he came out of the break, he just stopped.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
I thought the same thing.

Speaker 9 (46:31):
I was like, why did he Like he just thought
the ball was going to be on him, right, And
then you could just like I watched that like three
or four times.

Speaker 8 (46:37):
I'm like, hey, just I can.

Speaker 5 (46:38):
See it both ways, like if you want to, you know,
wherever you want to place thata blame or whatever. But
there's that and then like the speed out, Yeah he
ran like earlier in the game, wasn't a great route,
and it's just like these like these finishing elements, Like
even the ball that he caught, I thought was like
kind of lucky that the ball even got to him,
Like the defender was all over him and will Ridge
somehow kind of snuck it in. So I just I'm

(47:02):
with Duce, like I feel like we just got to
quit it, like you just keep on ride in this
roller coaster with him.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
And yeah, all right, And I know it's against Scrubs,
and I know it's not with the first team offense,
but Chisholm is taking advantage of every opportunity he's being given.

Speaker 9 (47:19):
He really is well, I mean, what else can you
say He's Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
I mean I was talking to Paul about him yesterday
and you know, to me, it was.

Speaker 9 (47:26):
Just the the football player aspect of it. And you know,
you can tell me you've seen these guys do it before,
but to me, he looked really good out there.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
He looked like a guy.

Speaker 9 (47:36):
That I would want on my team, that I would want,
you know, to continue to develop.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
He's got decent size.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
It's not all life scataboo.

Speaker 9 (47:42):
I want well, you know, it's not like it's a
guy who's he's heard too, who's five ft seven, you know,
five foot seven, one hundred and eighty pounds that you're
thinking you're going to take a chance on. Like, I mean,
he's a well built athlete. And anytime you have a
player to me that makes a catch two yards short
of the line to gain and can break multiple tackles
to get through, it's a really good sign. I don't

(48:03):
know if he has a role right now on the offense,
but you know, between Kayshawn Boody and Pop Douglas and
Stefan Diggs, like there might be some snaps eventually there
for him this year if injuries come into play. So
I was impressed with I don't know how you couldn't
watch what he did and not say that guy's doing
everything he can to try to make this team right now.

Speaker 5 (48:23):
Yeah, I think he made the team in Minnesota. I
just he didn't in practice too, Like it wasn't just
the game, like he was dominating Minnesota's two's in practice also,
and you just look at I think the two biggest
things are the play strength is obvious, Like he's got
some play strength to him that maybe that archetype doesn't

(48:44):
typically lend itself to. He's got a great feel for
space and like uncovering and just sort of understanding like
how to literally like how to play football, like not
just how to run routes, but like how to find
space and get himself open and be quarterback friendly. And
this is a guy that you know, at of Eastern
Washington had huge production and he just ran a four

(49:05):
to seven forty like that that's really all it was. Like,
he just ran a really bad forty and it made
him go undrafted. But he was a Day three talent
that just happened to fall out of getting drafted because
he ran a bad forty. Time killed the East West
Shrine game. Ripped it up there, has ripped it up,
you know, in the training camp with the Patriots. So sometimes,

(49:27):
like you this is there's a long history of receivers
that haven't ran a great forty that have gone on
to be really good NFL players. Like it's not the
end all be all, but unfortunately for a lot of teams,
there's thresholds and when you run a four to seven
at a skill position, you're just not you're not draftball.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
What did Bucky Irving run? I still always look at
him him.

Speaker 5 (49:47):
Like like KI four six as I want to say, right, So,
like there's a lot of guys like that. And you know,
I remember talking to Eric Galco at the at the
Shrine Bowl saying that out of anybody that was at
the Shrine Game, he was most disappointed that Chisholm didn't
get drafted because he was the guy that he felt
like was draftable by every measure except the forty yard dash.

(50:10):
And so that was, you know, one of those guys
for him. So I don't think that it's totally a
fluke what he's doing, because he did this in college.

Speaker 8 (50:19):
I don't think it's a fluke. So everybody records, right,
everybody said this was going to happen. He's going to
have a huge preseason. I read that nine thousand times.
I don't think it's a fluke at all.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 8 (50:34):
I expected him to be the Patriots leading receiver in
the preseason because of the style.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Of play, not because he's a good wide receiver.

Speaker 8 (50:44):
No. I didn't say that, Oh, I said because of
the routes that he runs are going to lend you
to quick completions that are going to be you know,
when you have those guys out there like Josh Dobbs
and Wooldridge. They're going to be looking for a safety
blanket that uncovers quickly. His style is uncovering quickly. That's
what he does, all right.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
But if you can uncover quickly and catch the ball
when it's thrown to you in this league, you might
have a job.

Speaker 8 (51:10):
We'll see, Yeah, we'll see. What do you think I
think he's going to make the team. I don't think
they have any options. I mean, Mike just rattled off
five different guys that are not out there. So if
Evans well, I think he's going to make it by default. Yes,

(51:30):
if Evan's right, If Evan's right and his injury is
not serious, then I think he's going to make the team.
I think they're going to keep probably born in polk
on ir to start the year, and that's how they're
going to layer in their depth at receiver. But I mean,
someone's got to make the team.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I know that people are hurting right now.

Speaker 8 (51:53):
I would only keep five receivers, but I don't know
about the health status of all these guys.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Williams Chisholm might be the fifth receiver right now.

Speaker 8 (52:01):
Exactly if Kyle Williams is not ready to go. I mean,
concussions can be a week, it can be two months.
Who knows if he if he has a concussion, we
should probably say that.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
We don't. We don't know that.

Speaker 8 (52:13):
But you guys told me that looked like he dealing
with something with his head. Again, I know that you
think I'm exaggerating Fred just because I did not see
any of the game. I understand, so I don't know
what happened to Kyle Williams, but you guys are telling
me it might be head related.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
At the I thought it was a clean hit.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
Yeah, and it wasn't a hit bang bang. Was it
a penalty?

Speaker 6 (52:32):
No?

Speaker 4 (52:33):
No, I think one though the throat just the pastor.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
You want to talk hospital ball.

Speaker 8 (52:41):
That's what everybody wrote.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Oh my god, that was accurate.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
Yeah, but yeah, I'm not I'm not going to argue
with something I didn't I can't argue with things that
I don't have the information.

Speaker 5 (52:53):
I'm gonna make it even me Chisholm's targets from from
Saturday for Paul, and I'm just going to text it
to him after the year, just so you know.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I'm still I told you I don't know if people
are familiar with the movie Clockwork Orange, but it's this
guy that's really bad, and they try to rehabilitate him
by making him watch these horrible videos and they literally
they pin his eyes open. That's what we're gonna do, Paul.
We're gonna make him watch all of Chisholm's highlight reels.

Speaker 8 (53:20):
I just like, the only thing that I would say
that I that I just everything you guys said, I would,
I would agree with you know, I think he's done
everything he could possibly do. The only thing I would
say is I've seen this story countless. Yeah, though maybe
this one's different, Maybe this one will be Edelman.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Yeah. I mean, like this is better than Gunner Oshefski.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
But Chefsky didn't do this.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
That's what I do this.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
Yeah, chism is better.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Yeah, you know, but I'm just saying, like, if if
Ohevsky had a good he didn't have the preseason that
Chishom's having.

Speaker 5 (53:53):
No, I agree, all right, That's what I'm saying. Like
I think that the ones that I've seen, I don't
go all the way back to Austin Carr and Riley
Karen and like, but like you know, jem.

Speaker 15 (54:07):
Uh, you know, is the future of the New England Patriots.

Speaker 5 (54:13):
I don't go back that far, but I do you know,
Barrios Gunner like Chisholm has been better. I agree, but
I I admit to like kind of to Paul's point,
if if Josh McDaniels wasn't the offensive coordinator, we wouldn't
be talking about this like this is because there's a
specific role in this specific offense that he just fits

(54:34):
like a glove like that. That's why he's a you know,
a legitimate candidate to make the roster on like thirty
one other teams he might not be, but because they
have the thought receiver role here that Josh knows how
to use better than probably anybody else. We're doing it.
We're doing Chisholm.

Speaker 9 (54:51):
I mean, this is to me, it feels like if
there was ever a Pop Douglas injury, it's Chisholm go time,
Like who else can.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
Ye do that?

Speaker 5 (55:00):
And he's bigger than Pop, which I think is kind
of a factor, Like he's a bigger target. He's you know,
got a little bit more play strength to him. Pop's
definitely more dynamic, but Chishm's a little bit easier to
throw the ball to.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
I would say, yeah, all right, eight five five Pats
five hundred is the hotline podcast at Patriots dot com.
Is the email that's how you get in touch with us,
and uh so, let's open it up. We've talked a lot.
Let's see what you have to say. Sam is in
North Carolina. He starts it off. Yeah, sorry, Paul, What

(55:41):
are you sorry about?

Speaker 16 (55:41):
Sam?

Speaker 8 (55:42):
What did I do? What did I do?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Now?

Speaker 17 (55:45):
Sorry, Paul, I.

Speaker 8 (55:51):
Can't state this anymore emphatically. I'm not arguing with anybody
about Chishom. I didn't see it. So you guys can
tell you all.

Speaker 13 (55:59):
You did see it.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
You could argue, well, no, that.

Speaker 8 (56:01):
I would have some knowledge to talk about. I would say, wow,
you guys are right, this was an incredible performance. His
toughness is hard. All this great. I saw it. I
didn't see it, so I can't tell you you're wrong.
I'm not arguing with anybody. You guys tell me he's
on the roster. He's on the roster.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Okay, But.

Speaker 10 (56:25):
Dreck Laye's ability to bounce back. I don't know if
you guys see that every day, but like if he
does the wrong, it always thinks like do go back
and you know, correct his mistates go does you have
to get up at the school both times the same
time he was on the stude. But pre season, I
don't know that I like that astivity about it.

Speaker 14 (56:40):
What do you guess?

Speaker 17 (56:41):
See?

Speaker 7 (56:42):
All right?

Speaker 4 (56:43):
Thanks, It's hard to say.

Speaker 9 (56:45):
I think Drake's been pretty steady emotionally. It doesn't really
feel like you're on a roller coaster. And despite some
of the clunkiness and recent practices, I will say I
think I think he's been better in these last week
or so in the end of practice situational stuff where
first few games or practices excuse me, even the end
stadium practice. You saw some turnovers. You just saw some clunkiness,

(57:06):
those drives dying out middle of the field where they
just get off the field. It hasn't been perfect, but
there's been better performances, especially like today, and again.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
Take it for what it is, how competitive it was,
but you know, I.

Speaker 9 (57:18):
Think those things have been have been positive. Just needs
to put it all together. I've seen elements of everything,
but he needs to start hitting the big plays when
they're there.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
And you know, but again I think that there's some
time to this, like.

Speaker 9 (57:29):
Understanding how the Josh offense is gonna mesh with the rotations,
And certainly got great experience this week in Minnesota with
all the different fronts that Brian Flores was throwing at them,
the different pressures from different areas. So hopefully all this
experience starts to translate. But I still remain a little
cautious because I think it might be a little up

(57:49):
and down early on, and he's gonna need some time.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
To really get a feel. But I expect that Josh
will do a lot to protect.

Speaker 9 (57:55):
Him and protect what they know their weaknesses are coming
out of camp.

Speaker 5 (57:59):
Yeah, you'd like to see him more of what Paul
is the more Patriot plays, where like it's just in
rhythm and they're in a rhythm and they're moving the
ball because like even the third down conversion he had
in the game is happens out of structure. It happens
when he breaks the pocket and runs around and makes
a play, which is great. Like I'm not you know me,
I'm for all that, like as Josh Allen right, like
let's we can do all that type of stuff, but

(58:21):
there was a play to be made in the pocket,
So like can we make the play in the pocket
ninety percent of the time and only save the out
of structure stuff when you got to put the Superman
type on.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Rye DC's in Virginia.

Speaker 18 (58:35):
Hey DC, Okay, Yes, basically I wanted to say it,
like what I have to say this, how much better
are the other teams across the league when it comes
to like they personnel well, because we understand that these
other things, they.

Speaker 17 (58:55):
Don't have a lot of workbies on one, they don't
have a lot of worbis at all receiver teams, but
at least the TV's are able to see if you
move around, went in the pocket and uh send it
to and found the receiver and throwing with the acricy
a Tom that's not really jack Man at this point
or whatever, because I feel like this Sea has enough
far components wise far on defense team and then you

(59:19):
know to be track talk but at least get by
someone on the offense. But you has to be better
to deliver the ball because right like a guy like
Tom Walliams, he fights like fox.

Speaker 6 (59:27):
Put in the street.

Speaker 17 (59:29):
If you had to comp the ball, you know and
sing the pure from That's all I wanted to say.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
All right, thank you, I straight got that, what do
you think.

Speaker 8 (59:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
I don't I don't really think I got what he
was saying there.

Speaker 9 (59:43):
Yeah, yeah, a little hard to kind of in and out, Matt.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
All right, I don't think this speaker over here is working.
Just just so you know, I.

Speaker 5 (59:53):
Am more optimistic about their ability to get guys open.

Speaker 8 (59:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
I don't know if that's the combination of the receiver
room is better McDaniels mostly, McDaniels mostly the other thing.
I don't know, but I the joint practice in Minnesota
and even the game, like there are open guys whereas.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Before, right there's just nobody else the.

Speaker 5 (01:00:13):
Protection breaks down in half a second or there's nobody open.
And I do think that there's been open guys in
both instances. So do that with what you will. I
guess that's a positive.

Speaker 10 (01:00:23):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
That was the same thing I thought when I flipped
it on. I was like, Holy cred the guys are it's.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
Against Minnesota and signs, but guys that are going to
make Minnesota's roster, Like we're not talking about you know,
fourth and fifth string guys that are gonna be on
waivers in a week like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Coming off four win seasons, I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, Emery is in Virginia. What's up, Emory? To gentlemen,
what's happening?

Speaker 14 (01:00:48):
All right, I'm going to express some things too, and
if if you don't matter, I would like for Paul
Paul to respawn first. But I had a question. First,
do you do the kid? Do you think the kid
has that that clutch gene? Because I'm a little concerned.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
We don't know yet.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
We're talking about I'm talking about.

Speaker 14 (01:01:12):
Right, Yeah, I want to I want to throw. I
want to throw a little bit more than our turn
it loose because his first three to his first three
throws in that game against the Vikings, we're not NFL
level starting quarterback. And and I know the kid has

(01:01:35):
the talent, and there's no question the talent is there,
but I do have some concerns about his his mental
his mental makeup, because we can't blame it on the line.
On those three throws, the line held up and the
receivers were open. He overthrew pop by pop was opened

(01:01:57):
by at least ten yards.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Yeah, but ten years. But he was wide open. You're right, yep.

Speaker 16 (01:02:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:02:03):
And my last thing here, my last thing, my last
thing and Josh connew Josh May made Mac Jones like
an NFL starting level quarterback. So again, please break it
down for me and explain to me. Paul, would you
mind going first on that. Please don't serve.

Speaker 8 (01:02:27):
I don't know what I'm trying to break down.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
I'm sorry you think that. Well. The first question was
he's worried that Drake doesn't have the clutch team.

Speaker 8 (01:02:36):
So I would just say that that is a big
question mark. I don't think that he showed a lot
of I don't think he showed a lot of clutch
clutchness in college at North Carolina. I think in some
of the bigger games that they had, they had a
good team. His first year as the full time starter,

(01:02:56):
they had at a pretty good roster. I thought they
had some games that they had a chance to win
that they didn't, And certainly it was very few and
far between last year, but there were a handful of
times with it. The game that really sticks out to
me is Tennessee. You know, you have this desperation drive
at the end of the game where you're not really
expected to do anything, and they got out him miraculously

(01:03:17):
based on his unbelievable individual play. Tie the game well,
now you have a chance to win it and you
throw a pick like that's way unfair to say he
doesn't have it because of that one play. But maybe
if you picked. The jury's the jury's out. The jury's
out on whether or not he has what it takes,

(01:03:39):
because I think that's what separates a lot of these guys.
I don't think mac Jones had what it took. You know,
he said that Josh McDaniels mate Mac Jones looking an
NFL Cariber player. I never saw that. I was adamant
at the time. He never had the clutch gene. They
only won one way, and that's if they scored like
fourteen points in the first quarter. Usually ten of those
were on defense, and they play by the door and

(01:04:01):
they held on. If he was asked to come from behind,
mac Jones couldn't do it. So did he have the
clutch gene? I would say, no, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
If Mac we don't know.

Speaker 9 (01:04:10):
May to me it's the number one question. I've been
saying it since the spring of Is Drake a killer?
That is, there's plenty of talented quarterbacks in the NFL,
guys that have its size and the arm strength and
all that, but when it gets down to brass tacks
at the end of the game, who's the guy that
can lead their team? And I just where I'm wondering,
is is it a confidence thing? And maybe even if

(01:04:32):
he doesn't have it right now and initially out of
the gate, as he gets more comfortable in the offense
and he really starts to grasp what they're.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Trying to do.

Speaker 9 (01:04:39):
In his second year as an NFL quarterback, which knows
everybody says is a year of huge growth, Ben, does
he start to find it because he's just confident?

Speaker 8 (01:04:47):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (01:04:47):
I don't know if those things exist independently of each other.
Can't Can you be clutch without total confidence in what
you're doing.

Speaker 8 (01:04:53):
When they start to increase the level of talent around him,
does that allow him to settle into these know these
situations a little bit better? Or do you know last year?
It would be certainly understandable if he's looking at say
like the Rams game here and Rams are a pretty
good team. They come in here, they got red hot.
In the middle of that game, Stafford and Nakua and

(01:05:14):
Cup were killing them and I think they scored like
four straight touchdowns. You could sort of get overwhelmed by that,
and then all of a sudden, you get the ball
at the end of the game and you're down six.
You got a chance to win it. And I would
be understandable if mac Jones looked at that and said,
I got to put this all on my shoulders. I
got to do it, and he made a bad play. Now,
there's certainly a lot of question about that play, whether
or not Tomario Douglas should have sat down in that

(01:05:38):
zone and whatnot. But I think there's a lot more
to it than just the flat out result. It's easy
to sit there and say, well, they had a chance
to win this game late, this game, late, this game, late,
they didn't win any of them. Well, he's not clutch.
There's probably some nuance involved in contextual situation.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
I think my answer is, we just haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 8 (01:05:56):
I haven't seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
We haven't seen any we don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:05:59):
And fairness, Tom Brady's second h third career start, you
saw it right, third career start, you know, and the
team was not supposed to be any good. They were
one and three at the time, and he brought the
team back from ten down against the Chargers and one.

Speaker 5 (01:06:13):
I just think we're like the whole clutch thing to be.
I think we're like, there's like ten steps from now
for Drake, like can they be in some more games first,
and like can they be competitive? And can they have
some success and get like they're not. I don't think
that we're at the point where we're talking about is
he a killer or clutch enough for them to like
go on a playoff run? Like we gotta.

Speaker 8 (01:06:35):
Know, but you got to win games, and yeah, there's
times in the games.

Speaker 5 (01:06:39):
That steps Like I just feel like the clutch thing
is you know, we all want to win right away
and it's it might be a little bit more of
something that we determined down the line.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Sure it could be. I just yeah, I in fairness,
he hasn't been given enough opportunities to show us yet.
So the jury's out though. And you know, to be clutch,
you need to be tough as nails. And I would
say Brunt is clutch of course because they're tough as nails.
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Speaker 7 (01:09:14):
How are you doing? I'm good?

Speaker 11 (01:09:18):
Usually you have to stay for the game to be
able to ask the first question.

Speaker 7 (01:09:24):
Go ahead, kid, since people want to see.

Speaker 20 (01:09:28):
You before throughsday as our last opportunity chat with you
and I know you like to go day to day,
but we have a plan for who might play and
who might not play Thursday. I mean, will you have
regulars playing or try to hold them money?

Speaker 11 (01:09:46):
I think with a quick turnaround, I think we'll have
to just manage some of those reps.

Speaker 7 (01:09:51):
But yes, obviously try to have a plan.

Speaker 11 (01:09:56):
Quick turnaround. These are gonna be two important days here.
We're going to get back out here. We'll be in
a red zone today and then there'll be a group
of guys that get a lot of reps tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (01:10:08):
That are going to be a good important reps.

Speaker 11 (01:10:10):
So based on how that goes, that'll that'll tell me
a lot for for Thursday night.

Speaker 7 (01:10:15):
How much evaluation is that there is the most of
Hay in the barn?

Speaker 8 (01:10:19):
You know?

Speaker 7 (01:10:19):
No, I mean I don't think that that's ever.

Speaker 11 (01:10:21):
I mean we're always trying to evaluate and improve. I
can't see a scenario where we never not want to
do that and continue to try to improve the roster,
or continue to evaluate who we think is going to
give us the best chance to win and and also

(01:10:42):
who has shown enough to want to work with on
the practice squad or who could have You know, again,
we've talked about the different types of players that maybe
you end up on the practice squad throughout the league,
whether that's a young developmental player or maybe somebody that
can be called uh called up for the game quickly
on short notice.

Speaker 21 (01:11:01):
How did you being able to watch the film, how
do you feel like Will performed?

Speaker 20 (01:11:05):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (01:11:05):
Anxiety's game?

Speaker 21 (01:11:08):
He did fine, like I practice performance versus preseason performance,
and speaking specifically to Baker and Jennies, seems like Baker
shows up quite a bit in the eleven on eleven's year.

Speaker 7 (01:11:21):
But then the games we've had art time hitting and
you go.

Speaker 22 (01:11:23):
On offsteak jenmis for was shands hedn't happen.

Speaker 7 (01:11:27):
I'm gonna show that some of these as well.

Speaker 11 (01:11:29):
We don't ever underestimate the performance in the game and
live action.

Speaker 16 (01:11:35):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:11:36):
And yeah, I don't.

Speaker 11 (01:11:37):
Think Javon, you know, would have liked to have been
able to connect on some of those passes and those targets.

Speaker 7 (01:11:44):
He's stuck with it.

Speaker 11 (01:11:45):
I liked where his attitude was and his ability to
play on special teams and then even late in the
game to try to block We threw a screen out
there to Giles and he's attached and he's trying to
finish and then found a found a reception there late,
so I think that has that shows some growth. I
think that could be u for a young player when

(01:12:07):
it doesn't go your way early, I think maybe it
could have been an opportunity to kind of just pack
it up, and I didn't see that from him. And
again my indication to that is the fact that late
in the game we threw screen to Giles, as I mentioned,
and he's he's blocking, he's finishing, he's trying to, you know,
make sure that he's protecting the guy with the ball.
So you know, sometimes it doesn't always go the way

(01:12:29):
that you anticipate, or maybe the stats don't indicate that.
And then for anthroony just you know, taking advantage of
the opportunity that he got in.

Speaker 7 (01:12:39):
And helped us win.

Speaker 9 (01:12:42):
After the game, he said, you wanted to talk to
the medical staff on Kyle, Isaiah and maybe even Ft
and what what is their status the three of those.

Speaker 11 (01:12:51):
Uh, I would not anticipate either any of those out
here today and we'll see what their availability. I will
not playing the game and so that that one I
know for sure, and then.

Speaker 7 (01:13:04):
The other guys will continue to evaluate.

Speaker 23 (01:13:06):
Like off insive linement, playing new positions like Darien then
and Cole you know, how much stock do you put
into the limited sample you have at them at the
new positions? Is there any other part of that evaluation
besides them just being on the field.

Speaker 7 (01:13:18):
There, man, I think if you're.

Speaker 11 (01:13:23):
At some point in time, you're gonna have to play
more than one position, and you know, swing tackle or
you know tackles and aren't starting the game are probably
going to have to play left and right. So we're
going to continue to work with Baderian and get them
some more snaps over there at the right.

Speaker 7 (01:13:40):
And I, you know, I.

Speaker 11 (01:13:43):
Hope that that will be will be better, and I
understand that. And when you're on one side and you
hear calls in a play means something, and then you're
on the right, what your job is on the other
side may sound simple, but when it's quick, I do
can at least appreciate were some of the you know,

(01:14:04):
maybe miscommunication or you know, the assignment could get mixed
up from from play to play. So just getting them
comfortable over there to be able to evaluate him at
both sides.

Speaker 23 (01:14:15):
Minnesota's late movement with their D line affects some of
that too.

Speaker 22 (01:14:18):
I mean it was pretty pretty quickly.

Speaker 7 (01:14:20):
Well that's what movement's going to be.

Speaker 11 (01:14:22):
It's it's going to be on a snap and sometimes
in a run game, you know we're going to have
to be able to do that. They're not just going
to stand still on us. You know, sometimes we caught
him and sometimes we didn't. So there were examples where
the movement we were able to block it and gain
yards in a run game, and and other times where

(01:14:43):
you know, we weren't.

Speaker 13 (01:14:45):
A lot about not.

Speaker 24 (01:14:46):
Wanting to see guys were keep mistakes.

Speaker 7 (01:14:49):
Of course, throughout their development.

Speaker 24 (01:14:50):
To feel like Drake in terms of his judgment and
just ball security has shown a lot of that.

Speaker 7 (01:14:56):
And how far do you feel like his progress is
at this point?

Speaker 11 (01:14:59):
Well, I mean, I think that we we have to
be able to connect on on on passes like the
one to to Pop, I was making sure that both
the receiver and the quarterback are on the same page
and that the ball placement is where it needs to be.
You know, I would say that tip balls, especially ones
that are over the middle of the field or towards

(01:15:21):
the middle of the field, are going to end up intercepted.
You know that he's continuing to improve and continue.

Speaker 7 (01:15:28):
To to uh.

Speaker 11 (01:15:31):
To help us, and and I and I like where
he's at. It's just you know, we just got to
fix that. And you know, we talked to him about
you know, not taking a you know, a senseless hit
outside the pocket on second and ten and if there's
nobody there throw it away. We'll you know, try to
convert on third down and and just being smart and
understanding those little, you know details. And then you know,

(01:15:54):
we talked about late in the game there with Ben
and being able to coach that you know, five minute
situation where we would want him to take a sack,
even though as a quarterback, you're like, why do I want.

Speaker 7 (01:16:02):
To take a sack?

Speaker 11 (01:16:03):
It's third down and seven and there's three minutes and
twelve seconds left. You know, we force them to call
tom out or we take forty seconds off. So those
are great opportunities to learn from. And again, the quarterbacks
that aren't in the game, they have to put themselves
in that position. And that's what we were trying to
do there at the end of the game, is to
make sure that everybody was watching the situation, whether that's

(01:16:24):
the last play situations on defense or the five minute offense.

Speaker 7 (01:16:30):
With with with the guys that weren't in there.

Speaker 14 (01:16:35):
Don't worry about that.

Speaker 12 (01:16:36):
It's OK.

Speaker 7 (01:16:37):
I hear you too, Kyle Duggar. I was trying to
be Louderles, she told me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
I'm trying to be louder.

Speaker 7 (01:16:41):
You weren't louder. I can just recognize your yeah.

Speaker 24 (01:16:44):
More with Kyle Duggar, as I'm concerned that last play
with the interception. What did you see on that and
how did you maybe coaching to either go down after
or just kind of like immediately on that play?

Speaker 7 (01:16:54):
Just what did you see?

Speaker 11 (01:16:55):
Well, again, that's that's why we, you know, practice why
we are grateful that these games can create those situations
of the last play.

Speaker 7 (01:17:04):
And again, you have two choices.

Speaker 11 (01:17:07):
You you know, one bat it down when you know
it's the last play, which I'm not expecting him to,
and then when you intercept the ball, you just you know,
we just have to go down. And then whenever we
have the football in our hands, defensively, you know, we
have to be able to secure it and we have to
be able to block, and we have to be able
to get the intended receiver and do all the things

(01:17:27):
now that an offensive player would do. So to just
simply go down there and and not have to take
the few extra steps to make it close.

Speaker 7 (01:17:36):
What did you think about what a game?

Speaker 8 (01:17:37):
You talked about how he was maybe a little.

Speaker 25 (01:17:40):
Too vampt up for the first part of the game,
but he says he doesn't really want to change that.
He likes playing with energy. Do you appreciate a quarterback
who approaches his job that way? Do you want to
try to calm him down as a head coach?

Speaker 7 (01:17:51):
So how do you view that?

Speaker 11 (01:17:52):
Again, the personality or they're whatever they're feeling, that's that's
that's up to them. I think that the performance and
the mentality and how we want to play the.

Speaker 7 (01:18:03):
Game has to be the same.

Speaker 11 (01:18:05):
So, you know, whatever they want to feel, they're they're
They're more than.

Speaker 7 (01:18:09):
Welcome to feel.

Speaker 11 (01:18:10):
We just need to make sure that we, you know,
execute and that we're taking command of the huddle and
that we're we're operating at a high level.

Speaker 7 (01:18:18):
And some guys are.

Speaker 11 (01:18:20):
Going to be more more amped than others as their
own personal approach to.

Speaker 7 (01:18:27):
The game competition.

Speaker 17 (01:18:29):
After getting a chance to watch the film and were
there any guys specifically that you thought need the most
of their opportunities.

Speaker 7 (01:18:35):
Well, we'll continue to evaluate that.

Speaker 11 (01:18:37):
You know that spot and that rotation, and you know
where we're at, competing and trying to make sure that
we're giving everybody the opportunity, and they're from from the
center and the left guard and just trying to figure
out what the best combination is.

Speaker 8 (01:18:51):
What do you see from and now? Great moments in.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
History.

Speaker 8 (01:19:01):
I'd rather be Damien Harris than Jake Bailey.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Damien Harrison barely dressed for games.

Speaker 8 (01:19:06):
I'd rather be hating. He's a player, he's a football.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Player, but he doesn't play.

Speaker 7 (01:19:11):
I don't care.

Speaker 8 (01:19:12):
I'm not a punter. I'm not the you know, everybody's ring.
But he asked me which one i'd rather be. I
would take you one. If I had, you know, to
choose between what I'm doing now with you morons, I'd
be the punter to choose between being a real player
and in a specialist.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Plus being the running back for even just ten plays
hurts a lot more.

Speaker 8 (01:19:37):
Oh yeah, what do you what do you want? What
do you everything? No sacrifice, no pain? Oh yeah, you're
just playing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Paul's Rockney over here with the sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
That's another great moment from five That's five hundred is
the Hotline podcast at Patriots dot Com.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
Is the email address rabel today anything yesterday, Yes, yesterday.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Now we got we have to hear from Terrell Williamstoll
for the first time today.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Yeah, that's right. Defense was today.

Speaker 9 (01:20:15):
I think that's the first time we've heard from him
since he you know, announced that he had been sick
and why he was away from.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
The from the facility. So that was good to hear
from him.

Speaker 9 (01:20:22):
Finally, it's been kind of a man of mystery around here,
so good to see him out there healthy. Said that
he got dehydrated a couple of weeks ago. That was
a little bit of an issue, but scare but yeah.
And then the defensive coaches as well, like I said,
not not giving me much, not giving me much.

Speaker 5 (01:20:36):
They're very tight lift.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Tight was Deuce was really disappointed Evan that they wouldn't
unveil the whole scheme.

Speaker 8 (01:20:44):
Well, I said, to defend you, Evan would have gotten
it out of them.

Speaker 5 (01:20:48):
I tried, and I asked them. I even said, like
just in general, like you don't know specific to you,
but just you know, they were They were tight lipped.
And I We've talked about this before, but like I,
most defenses are schemes where their offense are like fit
into a tree of like, Okay, this is like the

(01:21:08):
McDaniels offense is part of you know, the Ernhard Perkins
or this defense is birth from you know, the Seattle Three.
Like I did. They kind of run their own defense,
and I think they kind of know it, so they
don't really want to like go out and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
Think they might have some things up their sleeves.

Speaker 5 (01:21:23):
It just is a scheme that doesn't belong. And you know,
it's not a Fangio defense, it's not a Belichick defense.
It's kind of its own. Yeah, its own thing, and
I think they they pretty tight lipped about it.

Speaker 9 (01:21:34):
I was saying before you got in, like I just
looked at the coaching history of all this defensive coaching staff,
especially Terrell Williams and obviously Vaybel But there's just so
many different threats from so many different defenses that it is.
It's I mean, I love that stuff where it's all right,
they're gonna run this version of it, but they got
their own thing going on. Be interesting, Like once we
get into the season and the real film heads on

(01:21:54):
Twitter and stuff get into it, and then you know,
I'm hopeful somebody one of those guys that go way
back and will be like, all right, well it's a
little bit this concept.

Speaker 8 (01:22:00):
Up front, and was like, take that disrespectful that. Well,
I know, I thought he's looking for someone to uncover it.
I thought that was sitting next to the guy who's
going to.

Speaker 9 (01:22:09):
Well, I keep asking them to do it, and here
we are, we're both just standing here not knowing what's
going on.

Speaker 8 (01:22:13):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I just want to know
if they stop them or not. Right right, you know,
we better on third down defense than we have been
the last few.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Years in the game.

Speaker 9 (01:22:23):
The word elite out elite, we might throw it out
of the conversation, or we're throwing it out there.

Speaker 8 (01:22:27):
I think you could throw that out.

Speaker 5 (01:22:30):
They are, you know, it's preseason, but they've played a
lot more quarters coverage, you know, four deep players across
the deep part of the field, and what we've seen
in the past, they actually they've played quarters twenty eight
percent of the time in the preseason. Over the last
five years, the Patriots have only played quarters seven percent
of the time. So it's a pretty significant increase. And

(01:22:50):
this is the time of year where you play your
base defense like you play vanilla coverage and sort of
what your base concepts are that you put in the
spring and things like that. So I think that's definitely
going to be a little bit more of it than
what you see. And I think some of that relates
to like why Kyle Duggar is where he is right
now because he's not really a quarter safety. He's not
really like a deep safety like that, So it's I

(01:23:14):
asked Scott Booker about that and he gave me like
the run around of like, oh, well, we just like
to mix up the coverages, you know. It's just we're
gonna just play a bunch of different ones.

Speaker 8 (01:23:22):
But yeah, they're very Mike, you want to throw your
Kyle Duggar question to Fred, see how Fred answers it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Sure, I asked the boys. We were sitting up there
watching and I just said, if you have right now,
Paul and we watched.

Speaker 5 (01:23:36):
We watched practice together today, all right.

Speaker 9 (01:23:39):
If you had to say, right now, where's Kyle doug
or Week one? Is he a patriot or is he playing?
Is he not a patriot?

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
I think he could be. I don't know if it
would be a surprise at this point, but he's a
surprise cut candidate.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
Yeah, I mean I was all with a chance. I think, yeah,
I'm kind of with Paul.

Speaker 9 (01:23:54):
I still lean like they're not quite ready to give
up on him yet and I don't and I don't
feel super very close from well.

Speaker 8 (01:24:00):
To me, it's the money money.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
So we all know he was playing deep into the game,
if not.

Speaker 8 (01:24:07):
The guys that play when he played that, he was
the very last place.

Speaker 10 (01:24:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
So from your film review, yes, was he doing anything
where you could say, Okay, the reason why he's playing
deep is because they're asking him to do things he
hasn't done before and he needs to practice.

Speaker 5 (01:24:23):
Yeah, I would say that there's some of that, you
know he was. They're playing a lot of quarters, like
I was saying, and then they'll rotate into cover one
or cover three, depending on you know, they kind of
mix it up right. Sometimes they stay stagnant and they
stay too deep, and then sometimes they rotate it to
single high and you know, some of those things that
they do and in the back end when they play

(01:24:44):
those kinds of coverages are especially in quarters, are different
than what they've been doing around here the last couple
of years. You know, they might be in match quarters
where he's like kind of has a man that he's
you know, keying in on and then if that man
runs under, then he's in a zone. And it's just
you know, some of those intricacies. And I think what
we see with Kyle Dugger sometimes is he's kind of

(01:25:05):
got tunnel vision, where like he doesn't see the whole concept.
He only kind of sees like his twenty five percent
of the field, and then guys are like running into
his content, you know, his area from other areas, and
he's not really like he's not instinctive, like he's not
picking up on those guys. So I think that they
are trying to see if he fits his defense and

(01:25:27):
if he can adapt to him with more reps, and
the live reps are obviously the only thing that's really
going to help is if it sticks for him, because
I think he watching him on the tape, like he
moved significantly better than everybody else that was on the
field at that point, to the point where sometimes I
think he was actually slowing himself down so that he
wasn't like over running plays because he was going at

(01:25:48):
a different speed than everybody else. But it's mental, it's
all of it. Is is he going to catch on
to it mentally?

Speaker 14 (01:25:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
And similarly when he was on the field, you know,
really one of the best guys on the field was Jennings, Like, yes,
he's another guy that played deep, but he was dominating.

Speaker 5 (01:26:04):
Oh yeah, he took that right tackle, he whopped him.
He was It wasn't just the sacks like he was.
He was beating the right tackle, the Vikings back up
right tackle all second half, in every area. But he's
dominating a guy that I don't know if it's gonna
even be.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Right, which which he should do, he should do, you know.

Speaker 8 (01:26:24):
So for that reason, I don't think that those guys
will get cut necessarily, but I do think that they're
going to look to move them if they can. I
just don't know if, especially with Dougger. I think Jennings
could get moved because I don't think his contract is prohibitive.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
It's like this is the last year, right.

Speaker 8 (01:26:41):
I think he has two extension three year extensions.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
I think, oh so, at first he signed a one
year and then they update, is that a.

Speaker 10 (01:26:52):
Year?

Speaker 8 (01:26:52):
Twelve million dollars rings out of my head. It's not
big money, but Douger is big money. Doug Dougger has
the second highest cap hit on the team, So I
think they would look to move him if they could.
But if they can't, I think he's going to be here,
and I think he'll play like I just think. I

(01:27:13):
think he's too talented to just not play at all.
I don't I've never been in love with Kyle Dugger
in coverage. I think the problem here is pretty obvious.
What we talk about all the time, him and Peppers
kind of more comfortable closer to the line is box safeties.
They clearly think Peppers is better right now at that role.
They don't want to have them both out there. I

(01:27:34):
don't know, but that's a big to me. It's a
big leap from that to we're just going to cut
a guy and pay him whatever is left on you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:27:46):
One of the things that stood out to me was
when Jibill Peppers didn't play on Thursday's practice last week.
They didn't give Kyle Dugger a chance in that sub linebacker.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
Role that it was Del Pettis.

Speaker 9 (01:27:57):
So they I don't even know if they see Dougger
the way that we see Douger. I think they see
Peppers and Douglas as different in that, you know, they
really seem to have a design on Tabril Peppers and
wanting to play him on passing downs next to Spelene.

Speaker 4 (01:28:09):
I mean he might be between him and l.

Speaker 8 (01:28:10):
I think it's what Evans. I think that they do
see him like that. They don't know if they can
do the other thing. They know that he could. You know,
we got to figure out if if we don't have
Kyle Dugger in this team, if we're going to trade
him because we don't need.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
Two of those.

Speaker 8 (01:28:23):
We got to figure out who's going to be behind
Peppers because Peppers get hurt every year two. So they're
going to have to figure out if Kyle Duger can
play in a different way if they're both going to
be on the field together, you know. In other words,
I don't think that Kyle Duger fell behind del Pettis
on the debt.

Speaker 4 (01:28:39):
Well, I would just say it's interesting him.

Speaker 8 (01:28:41):
That's what it was reported as last week. I know
you guys probably weren't up on all the different things
that would be getting reported out of Minnesota, but that
was one of them.

Speaker 9 (01:28:49):
He's now with the threes, Like, yeah, I like that point.
I just think it's asume we haven't seen him at.

Speaker 4 (01:28:53):
All at that linebacker role.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
You haven't.

Speaker 9 (01:28:54):
You've just seen him as kind of a safety, whereas
Peppers you have seen play a lot of that line.

Speaker 8 (01:28:58):
I think Peppers is that yeah. Yeah, but I think
if something were to happen to Peppers like tomorrow and
they needed to just you know, I think Dugger would
be in that role.

Speaker 9 (01:29:07):
Yeah, but that would be the first time we've seen
him even do it in camp, you know, like, is
he gonna be able to grasp that too, or is
that oh yeah, that he's good at that, you know.

Speaker 8 (01:29:14):
I mean, I don't know he can do that, so
they have to find out if he can do the
other thing. It'd be my guest. I don't for whatever
reason they don't, I mean, he's not in the plants,
But whatever reason it is, they're clearly looking to move
on for him.

Speaker 5 (01:29:25):
I think it's a complimentary thing, like Craig Woodson and
Jalen Hawkins are just more complimentary players to Jabriel Peppers,
not to mention some of the deep zone stuff that
they want to do and they need like a guy
that can really cover grass and can kind of see
things and anticipate things like I don't think that they
are looking for somebody like Duggart who's going to be
a little bit stiffer and not be able to move

(01:29:46):
sideline to sideline, you know, Craig Woodson, Jalen Hawkins, like
a little bit more like that that unlocks Gabriel Peppers
to do his thing closer to the line of scrimmage
and blitz and be in the run fits and like
all that that stuff. I just the one question. I
think the safety thing in terms of like free and
strong safety is kind of solidified. Like I think it's

(01:30:07):
going to be a rotation of Pepper's, Woodson and Hawkins
in some wave shape or form. I have no idea
how they're going to cover tight ends. And this is
something that we brought up a ton of Minnesota because
t J. Hawkinson was kind of killing them in practice
after zach Ertz killed them in practice, right, And it's
not so much like I just don't know what the

(01:30:30):
what they this scheme, Like how do you cover the
tight end within the framework of the defense, Because the
Belichick defense you had the Duggers and you know, the
chunks and like those types of guys that you just
kind of knew where the tight end stoppers. I don't
know if that's how they want to do.

Speaker 9 (01:30:44):
It, Like Ellis is going to get stuck on some
tight ends, Marcus Jones is going to get stuck on
some tight ends. And I think it goes to the
point you asked the cornerbacks coach today about Alex Austin
in the slot, and maybe that's an option to give.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
You a little bit more size.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
I mean, we talk about Week one against the Raiders.
They've got hours, but I think in that game we
talked about it. You could put Davis on the tight end,
you know, I think you can physical you can loan
him to the tight end because they don't have the receivers.
Aren't that great where you need you know, I'm assuming
Gonzo is going to be available to play that you
would need both of those guys on the outside.

Speaker 8 (01:31:19):
Wouldn't be stunned. Yeah, we talked about it. If they
did something like that last week.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
It's it's not Rock Bowers that scares me necessarily from
this perspective, It's like t J. Hawkinson, it's the third
If it's the third fiddle.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
In the offense, you can't game Penling wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:31:33):
You gotta put justin Jefferson. You know, you gotta do
something to Justin Jefferson. Jordan Addison's on the other side,
and they have this pass catching tight end that can
make plays, right.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Well, that's going to cause problems for most teams.

Speaker 5 (01:31:44):
So if he's one on one, who's he won on
one with? And how are they able to keep it
so that T. J. Hawkinson isn't beating you?

Speaker 8 (01:31:53):
But you could see that, you know twice with Miami,
right you know, like we saw it last year John
Neu Smith.

Speaker 4 (01:32:00):
You know J Smith again and in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 8 (01:32:03):
But that's a team that has two options that are
going to require Davis and Gonzo's attention. Right now, You've
got to deal with a tight end who is capable
as a receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
And in Miami we might have to be dealing with
Matt Judan coming out of the edge.

Speaker 8 (01:32:15):
Saw that Yeah, just signed h Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:32:19):
Wow, how quickly things have changed.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
I just so he's gonna have teal sleeves now that
we'll have to see not red Rob writes in Underrated
aspect of the Patriots preseason so far. No penalties, lots
of physicality, not a lot of mistakes yet, Yeah, buying that.

Speaker 8 (01:32:40):
I would focus on the pre snap stuff that was
really a problem last year has not been a problem.
This year that's a real positive.

Speaker 9 (01:32:45):
So it's hard to like compare it tho because last
year it fell like such a train wreck and like
this year it's been definitely good, you know, but.

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
I was so scarred by it last year. It's like, well,
what's what's good?

Speaker 7 (01:32:54):
Now?

Speaker 9 (01:32:54):
That's still we're at. But I think overall, operation, play, intensity,
all that stuff has been really up.

Speaker 8 (01:33:00):
It's buttoned up, you're lying, you're lining up properly, You're
you know what. I know, you guys, but you guys, Yeah,
but you guys made a comment. I think Baker had
a false start penalty. Like that's when you can name
them like individually.

Speaker 9 (01:33:13):
Right, that's a good set of like, oh, I mean
you have a lot of times last year, remember would
be like the first or second snap of the game
that you have a false start on.

Speaker 8 (01:33:18):
The home when you had in Washington the tackles were
lining up in the backfield.

Speaker 5 (01:33:22):
Yeah, yeah, god, yeah, I mean I'm far.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Yeah, I think again and again.

Speaker 9 (01:33:26):
Yeah, if you had to add it all up and
just kind of sum it up, I think on both
sides of the ball, and maybe even in the special
teams too.

Speaker 4 (01:33:32):
There's gonna be big swings like back and forth.

Speaker 9 (01:33:35):
That's what it feels like, a big play on the kickoff,
and then they give up a big play or you know,
big sack on defense and then they get gashed by
a screen for a big play and you know, Drake
misses a wide open guy, but then he bombs one
down the sideline and hit mass caling like those kind
of like swings.

Speaker 4 (01:33:48):
Can they just find.

Speaker 9 (01:33:49):
Enough consistency across those three phases to win games? And
you know that's what very Able said, the thing we
have to start preparing to win right now.

Speaker 4 (01:33:55):
So I don't know what that looks like.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
That'd be a good uh Steven marblehead? Right, where do
you ranked Hishm in terms of all time Patriots? Fred?
Where do you rank Hism relative to Stanley Morgan and
Randy Moss? Slightly lower? Deuce Alex and Evan Alex isn't
here today, but Duce and Evan where do you rank his?
And relative to Welker and Edelman?

Speaker 4 (01:34:16):
Not behind him?

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
And then Paul, where do you rank Hism relative to
Josh Boyce and Bam Childress.

Speaker 8 (01:34:24):
Oh way different kind of receiver than Josh Boyce, but
Bam Childress. I think he was just kidding that way,
and I used it as an opportunity to say that
I've been down this road before.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Jeremiah says, I may have rose colored glasses on. But
I've always felt May has shown glimpses of that killer mentality.
But I just don't think coaching or players made it
any easier on him. Trying to execute the games. I
like to think of where it's score or go home.
Like Jacksonville. He took it downfield and scored to give
them a chance in the Rams where they tied it,

(01:34:59):
but he just couldn't do it again to win the game.

Speaker 5 (01:35:02):
Okay, so they're behind it jackson They.

Speaker 8 (01:35:05):
Got killed by Jacksonville. They were never even competitive in
the game. Well, I jumped out to a ten nothing lead,
then gave up like thirty two straight.

Speaker 5 (01:35:12):
And then they got like I think they got. Remember
they went for two. It was the all.

Speaker 8 (01:35:17):
We They were never within a touchdown in the second
I went for two down nine, didn't get it. The
Rams game, they never tied the game. They were chasing
at the end, and he had a chance to steal
it and threw a pick. I think he might have
been thinking about the Tennessee game that they tied, which
I talked about a little earlier. Yeah, I do think

(01:35:39):
there's something to the fact that when you're asked to
do as much as he was asked to do last year. Yeah,
I think it's hard when you get in those the
situations where you feel like you have to do it all.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
It's a little different. Like think about Justin Herbert.

Speaker 9 (01:35:53):
We were the fan base with him right now, like
that to me, will be every that's a question for him,
do it all? He didn't throw the ball, he didn't
turn the ball over barely at all last year, but just.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
Can he win the big one?

Speaker 9 (01:36:03):
Can you know you've got opportunity in arrowhead to knock
off Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 8 (01:36:06):
He won a lot more games as a rookie than
Drake May did, And those questions persist for Justin Herbert.

Speaker 5 (01:36:15):
Justin Herbert is the biggest juxtaposition between film Twitter and
like narrative Twitter. Like film Twitter is obsessed with Justin Herbert,
like the throws that he makes are just unbelievable, but
then narrative Twitter, like Paul Shows are like the guy
can't win, he stinks right and it's just so funny
to see if.

Speaker 8 (01:36:33):
I really like Justin Herbert, I don't think that those
those criticisms are unfair. He has not won as much
as he should.

Speaker 5 (01:36:39):
Yeah, I mean he threw a twenty yard out in
the game the other night. That's going around film Twitter.

Speaker 8 (01:36:44):
That's just right. It's going around the dark Web.

Speaker 5 (01:36:48):
And you're just like, you're like, holy crap, this guy
can throw.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Make you just picture you know, Evan Zilk out there
in their basements and their underwares and they're tidy white.
He's just watching this stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:37:00):
The bil thing goes up.

Speaker 9 (01:37:01):
But it's such an interesting way to analyze quarterbacks because
a guy like Justin Herbert and Drake may they have
all the intangibles, and someone like may Uh mac Jones,
who didn't have all the intangibles, but someone like me
still held out hope that well, if he could just
not make the killer mistake and then at the end
you kick in, you make the throws then but even

(01:37:21):
then you were still always knew he would.

Speaker 4 (01:37:22):
Be limited in a way.

Speaker 9 (01:37:23):
And that's why for guys like Drake eventually maybe and
Justin Herbert more and more so, they have everything they need.
They have all those those intangibles.

Speaker 4 (01:37:31):
So you're left wondering like, well, what what more frontiers
are there to conquer? That's the one. You just gotta
win games.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
Yeah, let's get back to the phones. Eldred's in North Carolina.
Watch up Eldred? What card pile up?

Speaker 10 (01:37:47):
Hey?

Speaker 16 (01:37:48):
Mike?

Speaker 8 (01:37:48):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (01:37:49):
That game the coach Will was miked up and he
was talking noise?

Speaker 22 (01:37:53):
Did he say that?

Speaker 16 (01:37:54):
And he was calling him play his de quarterback and
they were to whooped this? But he did? And get
back to to May.

Speaker 22 (01:38:03):
Would him a little bit.

Speaker 16 (01:38:06):
A team? But he's young, give a little bit. Did
he show that killer and don't kill at him? But
I think he was younger, did so? I think I
think Josh could bring it out of not did you?

Speaker 22 (01:38:18):
Maybe next year? Okay, I have a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
All right, thanks thanks Brigge. Yeah, I just don't. I
don't think we've seen enough opportunities for him to show
us whether or not he's got that killer instinct. So
the jury's out.

Speaker 5 (01:38:34):
I just get him doing the regular things consistently well
before we start worrying about can he put them over
the top.

Speaker 4 (01:38:41):
Yeah, And I think it's the thing you can develop.

Speaker 9 (01:38:43):
I mean, Paul talks about Tom Brady in his third start,
But I mean Tom Brady relentlessly preparing for a year
and a half, felt, you know, ready to take advantage
of you know, could we say that Drake May has
ever been as prepared as Tom Brady was in his
third start. I don't think he's not been that for
he hasn't had the coaching, He hasn't had the experience yet.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Even big games in college. I mean, I know, with
famously Brady split time with Drew Henson, but he had
some amazing games at Michigan Orange Bowl. Yeah, and that clutch.

Speaker 8 (01:39:14):
But I think that the more the better reason to
make fun of my Brady comparison is it's Tom freaking.

Speaker 5 (01:39:21):
Brady, right, right, like some statue.

Speaker 8 (01:39:24):
Right, there's a reason that we unveiled the statue two
weeks ago. He's the greatest of all time, right, Like,
there's no reason why Drake May shouldn't be as prepared
as Tom Brady was in the middle of it, you know,
in the second year. Why, but coaching Brady is unbelievable, right,
Why does coaching preparing.

Speaker 3 (01:39:45):
Because you're not getting the right info. I mean, you're
not getting you know, they.

Speaker 8 (01:39:48):
Got good info last year like the like the info
was the problem.

Speaker 4 (01:39:52):
Well part of the problem.

Speaker 9 (01:39:54):
Yeah, I would say I would say that Tom Brady
with Bill Belichick was getting better info than Jake May
was getting last year with with Alex van Pelt.

Speaker 4 (01:40:02):
And I mean, I'm not trying.

Speaker 8 (01:40:03):
To say I'm not saying like, I don't I don't
know that Brady that sorry, Drake May is unprepared. I'm
not saying that, but I wouldn't blame that on Alex
van Pelt. I mean, now, is Alex van Pelt as
good as Bill Belichick?

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
No?

Speaker 8 (01:40:16):
Yeah, but I mean Bo Belichick great, Alex.

Speaker 16 (01:40:21):
Well.

Speaker 9 (01:40:22):
The point, though, I was really trying to get at,
was just that like, yeah, Brady's special and and yes,
probably a lot of his early success was just innate.

Speaker 4 (01:40:28):
But I don't think that that's it. You're either clutch
or you're not.

Speaker 3 (01:40:31):
And you know what I mean, like you can get
to that point, but trying to think.

Speaker 8 (01:40:35):
I'm not saying that he's not. I'm not saying that
Drake May is not. I'm saying that we don't know
because we haven't got the information.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
But I kind of think you question, I think it's
in your.

Speaker 5 (01:40:45):
Get him to be able to read cover two before.

Speaker 8 (01:40:49):
I do not want to have any like nonsensical abstracts discussions.

Speaker 5 (01:40:54):
It's for putting the car well before the horse. But
he's got to be able to hit the open receivers.
So we were he's gonna I'm.

Speaker 8 (01:41:01):
Gonna answer my own question. You know why, because you're
an analytical sort of guy and you don't believe in it.
You don't believe in it. You guys, have you told
me millions of times that there's no difference between the
ninth inning at bat and the second inning at that
clutch doesn't exist. And I would just you don't have
to have the last drive of the game be the
only clutch drive of the game. You can be clutch

(01:41:23):
putting a game away in the second quarter. You can
have that killer third that Fred's talking about. That killer
it can manifest in a myriad of ways third and
long like during a game. It doesn't have to gotta
have it, please.

Speaker 5 (01:41:37):
I just I guess, I just it's not that I
don't believe in it, but I just look at it different.

Speaker 8 (01:41:42):
But you admit that you're ill does not believe in it.

Speaker 5 (01:41:44):
I admit that, and I would say that like to me.
It's just like, like Brady was clutch because he was
so consistent, and like he just every time he made
the right decision with the ball, and he was like
he was just saying he.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
Made the right decision because he was clutch when he
had to.

Speaker 5 (01:42:01):
But but like he did that in the first quarter,
and he did that in the fourth part, and I
hear get Drake to do that like consistently period before
I'll give you.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
And forget about Drake. Any player, let's not say this
is all about Drake if you don't have the fundamentals down.
I get it. It's tough to be clutched because the
game is going.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
Too fast and it just unravels.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
But when you clutch, the game slows down because you
understand what's going around you. You you recognize that, you
process it faster and then you can execute it.

Speaker 8 (01:42:33):
And that's when you're Joe Montana pointing out John Candy.

Speaker 5 (01:42:35):
And I but Brady through on the first drive and
he's doing that on the last drive.

Speaker 2 (01:42:42):
I get it.

Speaker 5 (01:42:43):
He was maniacally consistent.

Speaker 8 (01:42:44):
I get that he was, and that's what separated him.
But he also had periods of bad playing games, but
never when it counted, Yeah, never when he had to
have a drive?

Speaker 4 (01:42:54):
Does does Barth believe in clutch kickers?

Speaker 13 (01:42:56):
Barth is.

Speaker 5 (01:42:59):
Clutch that it pains me?

Speaker 8 (01:43:01):
I just I just look at it.

Speaker 9 (01:43:04):
That's a clutch, I really am, It's a really I
think I find it fascinating just because, like I said,
I think that's what is the biggest ingredient for greatness.
Like a lot of guys are tall and can throw
the ball a mile and can run really good.

Speaker 4 (01:43:16):
But the guys who do in.

Speaker 8 (01:43:16):
That league, every game is decided.

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
And I know I'm going to bring up three players
who should have statues Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird.

Speaker 4 (01:43:25):
But like game on the line, who do you want
to take?

Speaker 1 (01:43:28):
Were so?

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
They were animals, they were killers. They want you know,
they were killers.

Speaker 8 (01:43:34):
Who would you least out of that three? Like to
have taken the last shot? Kobe, no question.

Speaker 5 (01:43:40):
But at the same time, like the greatest basketball player
of all time? But why five time NBA?

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
Why were they so great?

Speaker 5 (01:43:49):
Because because they were damn good.

Speaker 2 (01:43:50):
They were damn good. But they were so damn good
because part of part of the reason they were so
damn good was their mentality. They just freaking hated to lose.
I agree with that.

Speaker 9 (01:44:00):
I agree with that everyone sucks, but me, I mean,
I agree with that that's a good thing to bring
up Fred like, because that's a Brady thing.

Speaker 4 (01:44:06):
Like these guys who are so competitive it's annoying.

Speaker 9 (01:44:08):
And I wonder across the NFL if all quarterbacks are
like that or only like the truly, because I think
most NFL players are almost annoyingly competitive. But Brady, can
we just play Ping Pong Tom without you storming out
because you lost the point? You'd like that kind of guy.
It's another fascinating part of this whole Clutch story because
I feel like that competitiveness. But again, like in the NFL,
everybody's competitive, but guys like Brady are even more.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
There's levels.

Speaker 5 (01:44:33):
I don't think that there's a lot of guys in
today's NFL that are like Brady. I think Mahomes is
the closest one. But I think that that for Mahomes
developed like I think Mahomes is that now. I don't
think that Mahomes was I think Mahomes was just awesome.
Like I don't think Mahomes when he lost to Brady
in the AFC championship game was the thing that we're describing.

(01:44:53):
I think he was just damn good. Like now, I
think he's more like that. But we just talked about
Justin Herbert. I don't know if Lamar Jackson like that.
I don't know if Josh Allen's.

Speaker 8 (01:45:02):
I think Josh Allen has it, but I definitely think
that the Justin Herbert thing that we're talking about, he doesn't.
And I really like Justin Herbert a lot, but I
don't think it bothers him the way it would bother
Brady to lose a game.

Speaker 5 (01:45:17):
And we're talking about you know, those three guys, Lamar, Alan,
Herbert along with Mahomes like that's probably in Burrow are
probably the top five quarterbacks in the league, and three
out of five of them at least. I think Burrow
probably has a little bit.

Speaker 8 (01:45:30):
Burrow has it, no question, Yeah, I believe that, but
like that's I don't know if those guys exist. But
I like you Lamar Jackson and Herbert because I think
those two guys, I mean, you know, Allen needs to
be in that conversation too. I just feel like I've
seen Alan bring his team back enough to know that,
you know, like Sometimes you can lose and be as
clutch as you can possibly be, Like that divisional round

(01:45:50):
game a few years ago, when three times in the
last two minutes he's scoring touchdowns, still lost the game.

Speaker 9 (01:45:55):
Most guys all lose to Patrick Mahomes, just like you
know Philip Rivers, who how competitive was he couldn't get
past Tom Brady you know in a game that count
it No, it's it's.

Speaker 2 (01:46:06):
So you know, it's that combination of the mentality to
want it and the skill to be able to do it.
And you have both, you become great.

Speaker 5 (01:46:16):
I just think that the skill has to come before
the clutch. Well it's okay, that's what he has the skill,
but he has the skill, I don't know, but like
the whole thing.

Speaker 9 (01:46:25):
Yeah, that's yeah, and that's what that's and that's that's
that's where we are.

Speaker 5 (01:46:29):
And you know that I'm talking this much about clutches making.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
You don't believe. But there is that special it that
you can't quantify.

Speaker 9 (01:46:43):
Is this like momentum. Clutch and momentum those are yeah,
of go hand in hand.

Speaker 2 (01:46:46):
Momentum A lot of people.

Speaker 8 (01:46:47):
Will tell you there's no such thing. Momentum is only
as good as the next day starting picture like, no, sorry,
when the Red Sox won ten in a row, momentum
had something to do with that. Yeah, and they've really
been you know, not you current stretch. Notwithstanding, they've been
pretty good since.

Speaker 5 (01:47:03):
You just brought up a game last year in Jacksonville
in London where the Patriots were winning that game ten
to nothing, and it felt like they were going to
win that game going away. Yeah, and then all of
a sudden, Jacksonville scored thirty straight points and ran the
ball seventeen times down the Patriots' throats and won the game.
So that's my side of the street would say, well,
where's the momentum there?

Speaker 8 (01:47:24):
But no, well that it was a little early in
the game. They definitely had the momentum after the first quarter.
And then you turn the momentum around by throwing a
bomb to Brian Thomas over Gonzo.

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
Good player.

Speaker 5 (01:47:34):
Now he flipped the momentum.

Speaker 4 (01:47:36):
You can't flip momentum pretty quick.

Speaker 8 (01:47:37):
But I so here's the thing what I'm talking about.
This is kind of what I meant like, it doesn't
have to be late in clutch. If that was the
two thousand and four Patriots who started off ten to
nothing and then they hit him with a hatemake of
a bomb, and all of a sudden, it's ten to seven.
Tom Brady goes back on the field. That's a big drive.
Momentum just changed. They have momentum now even though we're winning,

(01:47:58):
they have momentum. Now that's a clutch drive. Tom Brady
goes down the field and says, now you just can
leave seven. This game's over again. It's seventeen to seven.
I look at Fred and say, that's game.

Speaker 7 (01:48:10):
Right.

Speaker 8 (01:48:11):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
It's true.

Speaker 8 (01:48:15):
Again. I was there, Brady, it's Tom Brady. It's the
greatest of all time. But that, to me is a
clutch drive. It was the second quarter, meaning was the
Patriots went three and out. Now that's what happens when
you were losing team too. I mean the Patriots were
fourteen and two, the best team in football, had won
two titles. You know, well there's a huge difference here.

Speaker 9 (01:48:35):
But that's what Well, that's where I was going to go,
is that even though you're up ten nothing in the game,
the overall moment in the season is like in the gutter,
and the second you get a little blip and then.

Speaker 8 (01:48:44):
The team we're looking to pick, you know, pack our
tents up and go home and leave because we're ready
to lose, because that's what we've done all year.

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
I just send us home.

Speaker 5 (01:48:54):
I can already kind of see this happening with Drake May,
and I see it happen all the time with my
guy Jason Tatum. Get better and like these modern athletes,
like I don't know if they're wired like.

Speaker 8 (01:49:06):
That, doesn't bother. The absolutely drives people here in this
market crazy because we are wired like that from all
of our you know, sports fandoms when we were growing
up and stuff, and I just I don't know if
this generation of athlete is like that.

Speaker 5 (01:49:24):
And Tatum gets dragged for it all the time that
he does clutching up, he doesn't make the final shot,
he doesn't this, he doesn't that, and yet he's a
top five player in the league and an NBA champion, So.

Speaker 8 (01:49:36):
Right, but not the greatest You had to do that,
But that's true. That that's what because I don't think
anybody would argue that Jason Tatum is not a great
basketball player.

Speaker 5 (01:49:46):
Right, but when we talk about Jason Tatum and I
feel us going in this direction with Drake May, that
we're going to talk. Well, he's got all the talent
in the world, he's unbelievable. He just don't feel he
just don't feel great about it at the end of games.
And that's that's the Tatum treatment. And so it's just like,
is that, you know, maybe we just need to adjust,

(01:50:07):
Like I don't know if we're going to see Brady
or Tea's bird like those types of point.

Speaker 8 (01:50:13):
Maybe he gets to the point where he's playing so
well and so productive that the end of the game
isn't as important because they have they have the lead
in these games, and I don't need them to be I.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
Will, I will forever believe it's a thing.

Speaker 8 (01:50:27):
It's a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
It's a thing.

Speaker 8 (01:50:28):
I definitely think. I think you can actually see it.
Sometimes you can see guys visibly playing differently, you know,
or maybe they and.

Speaker 5 (01:50:39):
Everybody else chokes. That's how I look at it. I
think Brady stays the same, and I think everybody else
shrinks because the moments too big for them, whereas he
plays the exact same way when it's the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:50:57):
Like again, I I hate to always lean on the greatest,
but when you watch that Celtic City documentary, Larry Bird
comes out and says, at the end of the game,
I want the ball because I worked harder than everybody else,
and I know I did.

Speaker 8 (01:51:12):
I hated that line though, I remember that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
I know, I know, but like that's the way he felt,
like I put in more work than all these other guys.
I want the ball. And we know that.

Speaker 8 (01:51:23):
That's back how we started this whole thing when Due said,
you know he was more.

Speaker 2 (01:51:26):
Prepared, right, and you know, we know how he felt
about Michale, that Mikale's talent was maybe more than Birds,
and Bird thought like he didn't always give a hundred
you know, I think it's true. Doesn't mean he was right,
Celtic doesn't mean he was right, but that's how we felt.

Speaker 8 (01:51:44):
And because he was a mania that bothered me. Was
one of the few things about Bird that bothered me.

Speaker 5 (01:51:49):
I just look at like one of the Boston athletes
that are this generation, you know, Tatum, even David Posternoch
with the Bruins, And now I feel like it's starting
to happen and with Drake May and like we all
just might need to let go of like the athletes
that literally the killers, the Jordans.

Speaker 8 (01:52:12):
I'll give you. I'll give you one enough that I
think is unfair, and it happens on my shows all
the time, especially with Mike and TONI. It's like this
whole notion that you stink if you don't win titles, right, Like,
that's not the only gauge of a great player, you know.
Not everybody can win the championship every year. And I

(01:52:32):
just feel like there's too much of that now, Like,
but Woulds he ever won? Okay, he never won it all,
so I guess I can't say that he was a
really good player.

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
Yeah, that's was spoiled. I mean back in the day,
you know, But that's my pointed. Williams was one of
the greatest, but he never won anything. But we were okay
with that because we had never won anything. Now it's
all different exactly.

Speaker 8 (01:52:54):
You know. I just think this era is different in general,
not just around here. But that's the way we look
at these these athletes are you know, you can only
be so good if you've never won any if you
never want it all.

Speaker 9 (01:53:04):
And yeah, that's another reason why I kind of like
my veree, because I think he has that kind of
mentality that hates to lose and makes them sick and
hopefully that disseminates itself into the team's personality that they
will match that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
Risell said, you know, losing kind of throw up in
your mouth, like you just can't buy.

Speaker 9 (01:53:22):
Someone said, like, losing feels worse than winning feels good,
and that always spoke.

Speaker 4 (01:53:26):
To me so much.

Speaker 2 (01:53:27):
I think sometimes that's true.

Speaker 8 (01:53:29):
I think a lot of people fell.

Speaker 9 (01:53:30):
Yeah, like winning feels like you just checked a box
and did what you were supposed to do.

Speaker 2 (01:53:34):
Apecially, when you're the guy that looked at the third
strike and they all star.

Speaker 8 (01:53:37):
Oh, Freddy, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:53:39):
I'll never get over it. I'll never get over it.

Speaker 8 (01:53:42):
Or fred off your shoulder. Well, you were in the
All Star game.

Speaker 2 (01:53:46):
Right, he got my participation trophy.

Speaker 4 (01:53:49):
Yeah, the scouts are like that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:50):
Not this guy.

Speaker 4 (01:53:51):
He got it much.

Speaker 2 (01:53:52):
All right, let's wrap up someth Christians in La what
nonsense today?

Speaker 22 (01:54:00):
He ain't gonna have to do, eykay. First of all,
let's be clap back at mister Kyle from LA. It's
Christian in La, not Christen from LA. I never claimed
he from LA. I'm from the East coast, the least ship, right.

Speaker 2 (01:54:13):
You've never claimed to be from La. Yep?

Speaker 22 (01:54:15):
No, I'm from the East Coast, like everybody knows. Secondly,
I was going to kind of get after you guys
for coddling Drake May, but you guys have had some
really adequate criticism of him. The only thing I would
add is added to seem to be really nonchalant. You know,
even though he answers questions before he answers, he just
doesn't seem to have that sense of urgency to like

(01:54:38):
prove something. And I don't know if it's like if
it's Josh at practice, something that's houlding him back from
cutting it loose at practice. But I'm not hearing you
guys talk about him making these great throws at practice,
are really going down field and trying to really cut
it loose in the practice of I don't know if
you just puts to turn it on when the season starts,
but I'm I'm kind of a myth there. And lastly,

(01:54:59):
Crazy and Michael Parsons are officially really now on the market.
I'm thinking that the Elliott will about bombsayl Sports in
the state, He's going to go after him. Would you
do you guys think something like Anthony Jennings, Kyle Dugger
and a third Hendrickson and then just straight out at
first round pick for Michael Parton. Thank you guys, take

(01:55:20):
up the hair, all right?

Speaker 2 (01:55:21):
Thanks? Yeah, we talked about that on the top of
the show. Uh, neither one of those the Bengals want
a first round pick, and I don't think those two
guys make up for not getting a first round pick.

Speaker 5 (01:55:30):
Now, we were talking about this out of practice, like
just throwing Anthony Jennings and Kyle Dugger into these trades,
like these are the players the Patriots don't want.

Speaker 8 (01:55:39):
So now the banks four and thirteen Patriots don't have
a home for you, and that's gonna get in Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 5 (01:55:45):
Now I think for Trey Hendrickson, like could you maybe
get him for like Kean White and some draft capital?

Speaker 8 (01:55:53):
Like maybe I threw out your Marcus Jones too. Earlier
I was talking about our conversation about but just throwing
them defenses. The secondary was really bad last year.

Speaker 2 (01:56:03):
Maybe they like Marcus value and I want to get
I want to get to Willhem and Phillim.

Speaker 8 (01:56:08):
And one first round pick for Michael Marsons is going.

Speaker 2 (01:56:10):
To get there. I was thinking, you know what the
thing I was posing when it comes to Hendrickson, is
who are you going to if you give up that
first round pick? Who are you going to get that's
going to be better for the next four years?

Speaker 5 (01:56:23):
I think he I mean he's already over thirty, right right, Yeah? Yeah,
but no, I yeah, I'm not worried so much about
about the draft pick. I think you're going to have
to give up a much better player than Duggar or
Anthony Jennings.

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
Oh no, absolutely, Like, but I worried about the draft pick.
I mean, we're going to need draft picks. We're still
a building team.

Speaker 8 (01:56:43):
So but you could probably get him for a first
if he wanted to do that. You wouldn't have to
worry about it. The veterans. Yeah, I mean, obviously we
want to give up the veterans that we don't want.

Speaker 2 (01:56:51):
Yeah right, yeah. So okay, so you would give up
a first even for Hendrickson.

Speaker 8 (01:56:58):
Yeah, No, I don't think I would because I don't
think they're close enough to make that trade.

Speaker 5 (01:57:01):
I'll give up a second and Keon.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Yeah, sorry, Keon, if you knew that your first was
going to be lower half of the first round, because
Hendrickson gives you eleven wins, this year, would you do it?

Speaker 8 (01:57:14):
Well, I thought I was gonna win eleven games, then
I would make the deal for a first round pick.

Speaker 5 (01:57:18):
I feel like that's sort of where where I'm coming
from with not caring about the pick as much, because
I they're not at Hendrickson away from winning the super Bowl,
but they might be a Trey Henderson away from being
a playoff team. And then you're talking about nine, ten,
eleven wins and you're not picking in the top ten.

Speaker 2 (01:57:33):
And I'm in, okay.

Speaker 8 (01:57:35):
If you guys think that Trey Henderson makes them an
eleven win team, I'm in okay.

Speaker 5 (01:57:38):
I mean most people are picking them to be above five.

Speaker 8 (01:57:41):
Well that I know, Yeah, I know.

Speaker 5 (01:57:44):
I'm just saying, all.

Speaker 2 (01:57:45):
Right, Willem and Phillim, you've held on patiently, Thanks for
doing that. What's up? How you doing good?

Speaker 14 (01:57:52):
Okay, it's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:57:54):
We're doing all right. How you doing?

Speaker 6 (01:57:56):
Okay? I'm off to day So I got down to
talk just but I know, because I about to be off.

Speaker 22 (01:58:01):
The ear, you can keep up.

Speaker 6 (01:58:05):
Look, I get the hype aboutism and all that def
and Chism went off. Yeah, he gets open. He might
be familiar with Josh mcdamn's scheme and all that, so
I can seehere that benefits him. It, but you knew
what I wanted to see. I want to see Kyle Williams.
But unfortunately Dobbs just crushed my god damn dream when
you spent him into that plate and got his head
knocked off.

Speaker 2 (01:58:25):
God damn right, I hear you.

Speaker 6 (01:58:29):
That's all that's all to say.

Speaker 2 (01:58:31):
All right, thanks will All right.

Speaker 5 (01:58:34):
It was disappointing because I thought I might have to
watch that play.

Speaker 8 (01:58:37):
Yeah, you guys are describing that you should.

Speaker 5 (01:58:40):
And I thought that he was building the right I
thought he was getting open and ball was actually finding him,
and I think he was going to have a pretty
good game.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
And then yeah, yeah, yeah, that is. That's the frustrating
thing about football as injuries. It is.

Speaker 9 (01:58:56):
And I think he's such an X factor for this offense.
If it's able to click for him and mesh him
into that passing offense, he could make a real difference
for them.

Speaker 2 (01:59:04):
All right, Listen. I thought it was a lively discussion,
especially when we got to the clutch part. We we
determined that Evan is all washed up when it comes
to that discussion. Yes, you don't know what clutches.

Speaker 5 (01:59:19):
Let's just get let's let's build.

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
I'm I'm only I'm only kidding.

Speaker 4 (01:59:24):
Could you have a car with a clutch?

Speaker 5 (01:59:26):
Yeah, I can't, actually.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
Which is more than most people your age.

Speaker 8 (01:59:30):
I've never, I've never tried.

Speaker 10 (01:59:31):
Never.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
That's how I learned.

Speaker 5 (01:59:34):
It's a rare thing for somebody my age.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
Do that. Absolutely, it is good for you, all right.

Speaker 8 (01:59:39):
But they still make those clutch.

Speaker 5 (01:59:40):
Yeah, sure, a lot of work cars shifters.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
Yeah, all right, that's going to be it for this
edition of Patriots Unfiltered. We're going to be in uh well,
I'm going to be in uh Jersey on Thursday, So
you guys are going to hold down the four.

Speaker 8 (02:00:00):
The pregame show as six forty five, six forty five,
six forty.

Speaker 3 (02:00:05):
Five, okay, Hot hour, one Hot hour.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
And Claudia will be back Claudia, so we'll be back
in my seat. So look forward to that. All right,
thanks for listening. I will see you next week. These
guys will see you on Thursday.

Speaker 4 (02:00:21):
Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.

Speaker 9 (02:00:23):
If you really want to help us, make sure you
like us wherever you get your podcasts like Apple Podcasts
or Spotify.

Speaker 8 (02:00:29):
Also make sure you.

Speaker 9 (02:00:29):
Follow us on the New England Patriots YouTube channel to
see this show and everything else that we do here
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Speaker 4 (02:00:34):
Thanks a lot.