May 25, 2022 • 54 mins
Former Patriots research director Ernie Adams is our guest, and highlights a nearly half a century in the National Football League. Adams discusses how his passion for football began, what made the mid 1970’s Patriots so great, his favorite Patriot team and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time now for another episode of Pats from the
Past podcast. I'm Natt Smith alongside with Paul Perrillo when
we're pleased today to be joined by Ernie Adams, who
spans many years here in the Patriots Organization. Ernie, how
are you doing today? And thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm great and it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It's a good get for Matt. It was stepping up
our client. Tell a little bit here, Matt, I.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Think most Patriot fans please tell me if you disagree.
Probably I'll know that Ernie's now retired, which is at
once a very sad day for the Patriots Organization because
of all the success he's helped be a part of,
but probably a great day for Ernie and his family.
How do you enjoy retirement?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Every day is great? Ah, I'm in total control of
my time and that's uh. You know, it's sixty nine
years old. That's a great place to be.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Did you ever was it?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Like?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It amazed to me some people. I'm going to work
until you know whenever? Was retirement something that you did
you think about that as you were working? Like, you
know what one day I think I would like to
slow down and and see some things that I never
or do some things I never had.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
A chance to do well. Probably over the last couple
of years, I knew I knew it was going to come.
Dying at the office was never part of the plan.
Uh So it's it felt like the right time.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
For Patriots fans who don't know Ernie's a would you
would you classify yourself as a voracious reader?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's probably a fair assessment.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yes, what are you reading now that you would recommend
to Patriot fans that you enjoy that you're enjoying?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Mean, oh boy, that's uh for Patriots fans that they
would really enjoy. Uh. Read a great book about Maynard Keynes. Uh.
Author's last name is O'Toole. I think I have to
get the title Time of Peace. Great great book about
(02:06):
how economics or a social phenomenon, not a hard science
that that might be at the top of my timely topic.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Very timely capulated.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you, you know, when
Matt was talking about the retirement stuff, just what was
what was the season like for you last year? Sort
of you know, what did you do on a typical
NFL Sunday. Were you watching intently or were you doing
apple picking? You know with the fan.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So I watched. I certainly watched Patriots games. And if
there were teams that were interesting to me, uh, you know,
then then I would watch them. I did not sit
there glued watching you know, every uh every game that
came on.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, players will say that when they see the games
or it gets to be training camp, those that have retired,
that there's an itch that comes back. Did you ever
have an inch or was there was had that been scratched?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Pm I would say, I would say it's the itch
had been scratched. I mean it's game days. The is
the fun time, uh, you know, driving home on Tuesday nights,
worrying about heitting a deer out on nine nine five.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
That's don't get Matt going on that. He's that's one
of his hat irrational fears.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Right, there are deer out there, I know, right, right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So this is a fascinating career that you've had, Ernie,
as a younger person, what sparked was it, can you
think of one thing where that ignition sort of happened?
And you said, man, I'm really interested in this In
the game of football.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Sure it was when I was an eighth eighth grader
at Dexter School in Brookline. Uh, football was mandatory intramurro,
so there was no no choice. I want to play football,
I don't. If you're at Dexter School, you're going to
play football. And I was the athletic director there. George
Downple was just a wonderful human being, and I had
(04:03):
also why don't we do this? Why don't we do that?
And he finally said, look, you're so smart. You coach
your team. We'll see how you do. And that's where
it started.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Did you envision at that point in time, was that
this is this is a real love?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh? I knew, Hey, this is this is a lot
of fun. And it grew from there.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Okay, so you were really into it, and then you know,
you do your your high school and you meet another
guy who's really into it. How long did it take
you to realize? Bill Belichick was pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
In his thoughts. Probably about a minute. So of course
weeh we met fall of nineteen seventy. We were both
sior seniors at Phillips Academy in Andover. We played on
an undefeated football team and we had a great time together,
and it was It's basically started a fifty plus year
(04:54):
conversation about football.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Was it mapped out? Did you guys sort of say
this is this is where we want to go, and
this how we might get there.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
We both knew we really enjoyed football. I can't say
that we're eighteen. We had, you know, every step of
the way mapped out, but things went from went from there.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And so how did that happen maybe or increase the
likelihood or maybe increased your love of the game When
you were at Northwestern.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, I was, of course it was Bill's Bill's dad,
Steve made an introduction to me at Northwestern and that
worked great. And then when I finished at Northwestern, I
came June of nineteen seventy five, I had an interview
with Chuck Fairbanks about joining his staff. And what really
(05:45):
worked for me was that Check had been coach at
the University of Oklahoma. He was used to having graduate
assistants and there's young coaches who did all the lot
of the grunt work, so he was it was kind
of no risk for Chuck. It was it was a
tryout basis. He said, look, if this goes well, great,
if not, I'll let you go. So about I came
(06:09):
in and interviewed with Chuck on a Monday, and I
had a conversation probably a day or two after with Bill,
with Bill Belichick when he just graduated from Wesley, and
told him what I was doing, and he said, you know,
that sounds like a pretty good place to be in
the NFL instead of going to college. So he went
in shortly thereafter and talked to Ted Marsha brought at
(06:34):
the Colts and that's where he started at the Colts.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I think people like Paul and myself look at what
the NFL is today. It's just mega monster and everything
like that. But can you talk about like the job
interview in nineteen seventy five for the New England Patriots
in the NFL. Yeah, we think of the NFL as
this big deal. I'm not saying it wasn't a big
deal in nineteen seventy five. That's still the highest league.
But what was that like like in nineteen seventy five, Ernie,
(06:58):
We like getting your introduction of the NFL.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, I mean, I Chuck Fairbanks was just a wonderful
person to work with, and that was that that was
a big deal. Of course, the league was was much
smaller if in fact, if you remember in nineteen seventy five,
the Patriots was still a publicly traded company. You could
go to the Boston Stock Exchange and buy a sheriff
(07:22):
to England Patriots. Well, one of the uh the results
of that was as a publicly traded company, the Patriots
had to publish every year their complete financial statements, which
I have a copy of their last annual report and
I gave I gave a copy of that Robert Kraft.
(07:42):
I said, now, don't laugh when you look up. I mean,
it was, you know, it was, it was the National
Football League, but it was so much it was it
was smaller than it was, and that was obviously right.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
And you know, Matt and I are, you know, of
similar age, and we have a sort of affection. Would
you say for those teams seventy six, seventy seven, you know,
that era of Patriots football was when we were kids
and we were really really getting into it. And I'm
just curious your thoughts on just how good you know,
you mentioned Chuck Fairbanks, the talent that he brought here,
how good some of those teams were that maybe kind
(08:17):
of forgotten because of all the success you and Bill
have had.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, of course, I was with the Patriots then for
four years, from nineteen seventy five through seventy eight. The
nineteen seventy five, the year before I got here. In
seventy four, the Patriots, if you remember, had started six
and one and then and ended one and then one
and six, sources seven and seven overall record. And then
(08:42):
in seventy five we had our team went on strike
the day before the last preseason game with the Jets.
So we were, may may seem most strange, we were
playing the Jets in the last preseason game playing in
the It was that game was going to be play
in the Yale Bowl. So we had a usual Saturday
(09:03):
morning workout and we had lunch in the old Stadium
club over with the Schaeffer Stadium. The players, after lunch
decided to go to go out on strike, and they
didn't come back till I think Wednesday of the following
week of the open over the Ears. But that that
really cast a a pall over the over the whole season.
(09:28):
And then of course, you know, Jim Plunkett heard his
shoulder and so we went, Yeah, that gave Steve Grogan
a chance to play with the rookie. So the first year,
you know, three eleven, that was a real disappointment. But
the next year coming back, of course, we went eleven
and three in the regular season. I probably remember the
Oakland Raiders won the Super Bowl that year. Well, in
(09:50):
the they were thirteen and one in the regular season.
That one loss was when we beat them. I think
it was like forty eight to fourteen.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I was at that game.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I remember, I'm going to go seventeen.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
It was a blower, it was.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
It was a blowout, complete blowout. Yeah. And then of
course we played them in the the infamous Divisional playoff
game where we had them third. You know, we've got
we had a lead, had them third and eighteen. They
throw an incomplete passion. Ray Hamilton gets called for roughing
the passer. Let's say, probably a bit of a marginal call,
(10:28):
you know. When they went on to you know, to
beat us right at the animals, Stable kept the ball
winning for the winning touch up. But that was my
point is that in seventy six, I mean, we were
we were a championship caliber team, even though you know
we didn't win. Most seasons still end up being, you know,
(10:48):
two or three teams playing at the towards the end
of the season that really have a legitimate chance to win,
and we were one of them.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
A lot of players and a lot of coaches. It's
not necessarily the wins that they enjoy reminiscing about. It's
those losses that they can't get over. And easy for
me to say this, but I wonder does that loss
bug you because you had beaten Pittsburgh already in the
regular season that year in Pittsburgh, by the way, in
no disrespect to Minnesota, but Minnesota wasn't in the same
(11:18):
class that one. You know, I think you can make
a really legitimate argument that that call doesn't get made.
You beat the Steelers and you beat the NFC representative
I was, you.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Know, I'm all presidents. I think that would have happened.
I mean, the two best teams in the league that
year with the Patriots and the Raiders, and they you know,
they came out on the long end of the score,
but I mean we were You hate seeing a game
really come down to, uh, you know, to a call,
(11:51):
but it did.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
You know, how do you you look back at those
it's so different, you know, the way you guys played
with all of the running and the record you guys
ended up setting in seventy eight for the all time
rushing team stat And then you look at the way
the game is played, you know now you know.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Just can you well right, it's become much more of
a passing league. But I will point out you got
a really good team, the Baltimore Ravens, Yeah, who feature
you know, feature the running game. Uh, And they're a
little bit similar to what we were because we had
I think in seventy six, Steve Grogan probably had close
to five hundred yards rushing. So it wasn't just the
(12:31):
running backs who were who were making a lot of
the yards. It was the quarterback as well. And we were,
you know, we we were committed. We were committed to
being a running football team. Although we go when we
had you know, players like Darryl Stingley, Rush Francis, you know,
(12:52):
and Steve a quarterback. When we you know, when we
needed to throw the ball, we could. I mean you
mentioned beating the being the steel in three rivers. I
mean we were down, we were down twenty to nine.
We hit fourth and one hit Russ Francis on a
fifty five yard pass. Then we hit Darryl Stingley on
(13:12):
a big on a big play. So I mean we
had you know, we had players who are very good
passing the ball, but it was we were definitely a
running team first.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Uh you probably my guess is this is maybe it's
wrong and that I should say it this way. Probably
not a big fan of nicknames per se, but I'm
sure you were aware in the day Cosell and calling
Francis all world. Patriot fans today have no idea who
Russ Francis is. They can't remember him anything like that.
My words here, I'd like to say that I think
(13:44):
it was Gronk before Gronk. Is that a fair Is
that a fair statement to make?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I mean the big difference, the biggest difference between Russ
Francis and Rob Gronkowski is that Rob played on a
passing team with a Hall of Fame quarterback. I mean,
Rush was you know, we were more of a running team.
He was a like Rob was a devastating blocker on
the edge. Rushhead, you know, great athletic ability, great hands.
(14:10):
He When you talk, what do you want for a
tight end? What do you think of rush Francis, Rob Gronkowski.
I have no problem putting them in the.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Same that's heady category right.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
In the big plays. Like you know, there was a
couple of years, you know, before all of these modern
guys started being eligible for the Hall of Fame. And
we're in our meetings. I've nominated Russ Francis a couple
of times. I mean, averaging like sixteen yards of catch, right,
I mean, and I'm just an insane total for a
tight end, especially in that era, as Ernie said, with
such a running team, really could I mean, I know
(14:41):
Howard Cosell always said it. He has his little pithy
little phrases, but there's my old world tight end, that's
what he was.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
He could do it all, no question. I mean, we
you know, are probably our featured player was running the
ball off tackle. I mean we had Rush Francis doubling down,
a double team, Sam Cunningham kicking out and John Hannah
leading and we're good backs, but they just had, you know,
realistic at the back, just had to get the ball followed.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Job, right, Ernie, Because you know, you've your career has
spended so much time and the game has chased so
much I'm interested in one.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You mean half a centuries a long time.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
There's a long time when you're sitting in meetings and
in that seventies team, and you guys are sitting down,
can you recall a player, a couple of players. Will
you guys sit around as you're trying to game plan
and go, this guy's a game wrecker. I don't know
how we're going to be able to tend with him.
Who's the guy that caused coaching your coaching staff fits
(15:44):
back in that day?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Oh boy? Well ahead, Uh you could say our last
year in seventy eight playing in the Houston Oilers, Earl Campbell.
Uh No, that he was a was a game wrecker.
I mean my first year in nineteen seventy five going
out to play the Bengals had Isaac Curtis wide receiver
(16:06):
with Kenny Anderson throwing him the ball. I mean we
geared a lot of things to stopping to stopping him.
You play the Raiders, I mean he had now Dave
Casper was another tight end who was a real problem
to play against. I mean those there were you know
we played the Steelers you mentioned beat We beat him
(16:27):
in seventy six. I mean they had Stan and Lynn
Swann and John Stalwarth at wide receiver, and of course
the defense. I mean you got Jack Ham, Joe Green,
Jack Lambert, Andy Russell was the third linebacker who would
be he would be a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate,
with you know, Blunt and Mike Wagner in the secondary.
(16:50):
I mean, that was that was a great, you know,
a great team to play against.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And we people talk about we use the word dynasty
a lot, you know, and how much it is. And
here's the Steelers. There's no free agency back in the day,
you know, and the fact that they that team could
run out You're just going through some of the names.
I don't know that younger Patriot fans can appreciate how
good that team was and how good that organization was
(17:13):
at that at that time, right.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, Well, I mean you're talking about winning, uh, you know,
winning winning four Super Bowls in six years. I mean
it was still I mean, to win the championship of
the National Football League, you got to beat everybody else
in the league. I mean, that part of it hasn't
you know, hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And they were, you know, and even the team we
beaten seventy six. Who did you know I did not
go on the Super Bowl. I mean, that's why they're mean.
They had some injuries, but I mean the Steeler defense
that year, I mean, it was just that's that's what
they get. That was the year I think they came
(17:52):
up with the name of steel Curtain and that's about
what it was.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Should you have did the did Chuck leaving in seventy eight?
Did that? Did that derail the seventy eighteam.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
At the end, it's well it didn't. It certainly didn't help.
You know, when you have you a championship team, when
you get on a run, you got everybody totally focused
the zero it in every day nothing, You're not letting
anything else distract you. And then you get to the
end of the season, Oh, the head coaches leaving, Well
(18:27):
that kind of everybody, whoa, wait, what's what's going on here?
I mean, that's that's absolutely never a good thing. And
of course, our last the last regular season game when
it all came out, was Monday night down in the
Orange Bowl, and we had the scene where Chuck told
(18:48):
the team in the afternoon he was going to University
of Colorado. Billy Sullivan came in into the locker room
and he was going to suspend Shock. What Chuck could
talk to is any who said you do not resign,
make them fire you. So he had the back and forth.
Billy said, you're suspended the head coach going, does that
(19:08):
mean I'm fired? No, you suspended in the locker room
before they and then of.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Course this is what we dealt with in our childhood.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And then of course the the unfortunate pictures. You got
Chuck walking walking on the Orange Bowl in the middle
of the second quarter, carrying, you know, carrying his bag,
and then he came back for the for the playoff game,
and of course Steve Grogan got hurt in the playoff game.
So I mean that, I mean that was that our
seventy eight team in the middle of the season. We
(19:38):
could play with anybody, but you know, that was probably
too much for for anybody to over Complus, we ended
up playing the Oilers with Earld Campbell.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And good parlor game. Who's a better team, Earnie, the
seventy eight team or the seventy sixteen.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You know, I must say probably the seventy eight team
because we had on seventy eight instead of having a
Steve Grogan being a rookie quarterback. He was his third year.
We had Stanley Morgan and Harold Jackson at receiver, which
we were a little more explosive on offense in seventy eight.
(20:16):
Of course, the seventy sixteen was the one that you know,
in the end, it was closest to winning a championship.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah, I would agree, though seventy eight, I think they
had more ams, probably with the ownership, and there was
more animosity at that time because those guys have been
around a few years and we're kind of tired of
the way they would try to know. It seemed like
someone was holding out every training camp. It was tough
as a ten year old kid, it was tough to
read about the team at that time because of all
those off field things, right.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I give tremendous credit
to Billy Sullivan for keeping professional starting professional football in Boston,
you know, getting a team belt. But it was I mean,
the organization was realistically being run on our shoe.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
String, and everybody that was involved at the time says
it exactly the way already just did, right, you know,
it was a tremendous passion that Billy Sullivan had, and
it was a lot like Robert. He was a fan first,
like he wanted football to succeed here. He just didn't
have the resources to do it the right.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Way, right.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
And so then you go Ernie and you get to
a couple of places that maybe do do it the
right way. You know, you see how it's run in
New York, and you see how it's run in Cleveland,
and those are two premier NFL franchises.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, when we got to the when we got to
the to the Giants in nineteen seventy nine, and of
course Ray Perkins was became the head coach, who had
been the receiver coach here on Check Fairbanks's staff from
seventy five through seventy seven. But they were coming off
the Herman Edwards recovery of the Joe Bizzar Chick fumble.
(21:58):
You know, they'd had the airplane fly over Giants stadium.
Fifteen years of lousy football. We've had enough, And I said,
when we got to the Giants, if you remember the
old television show F Troop, this was like taking over
F Troop. I mean it was a we had a
few good young defensive players but the organization was was
(22:20):
mired back in the nineteen forties someplace, And of course
he talked about ownership. I mean he had Wellington Mara
and Tim Mather, Tim Marra that was an uncle and
nephew who it was a fifty to fifty split, and
the tour. They just lived in different worlds basically. So
(22:41):
the commissioner, Pete Roselle, basically he went out and found
George Young who was at the Miami Dolphins, and he
told the marriage, look, you're going to hire George Young
as the general manager and just signed the team over
to him, which is which is what happened. But that
was But you say, yeah, the Giants, I mean, it's
in New York. It's a classy operation. But going in
(23:03):
there in the spring of nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
We had a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay. So then, so let's fast forward a little bit.
Was the organization the team wasn't very good when Bill
called you in two thousand and said I'm going to
New England. Let's go to New England. It wasn't the
f troop at that point in time. But your financials
from a salary cap were a mess, right, Like the
football team wasn't in great shape at.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
That point, right, No, it was, we had I mean,
we had some work to do, and that for that
first season was certainly frustrating. I mean it took basically
a whole year to get everybody on the same page.
And then of course, going into two thousand and one,
we did a great job with you know, being going
(23:52):
signs for free you know, signs for free agency. You know,
like Mike Crable brought some guys in for you know
who Bill and known at the Jets, like you know,
Fifer and just had a I mean that that made
a huge difference. And then, of course, I mean everybody
knows in the second game Drew got hurt and Tom
came in playing quarterback and that, uh, I mean everything,
(24:15):
I mean everything jelled, But it was I mean if
that old one team, I mean we got playing really
well at the end, and obviously we won the championship.
I mean we weren't really a juggernaut at that stage.
I mean, I tell people, I mean in the two
thousand and one team, we were just a little engine
(24:37):
that could. I mean, this is like fifteen years before
we became the Evil Empire. I mean we were, I mean,
we were just some guys going out there. And the
one I remember was we went out and we played
played the Colts in Indianapolis, and that was where David
Patton had the they threw for a touchdown, Ram for
(25:00):
a touchdown, and Conda Testown when he threw the touch
up ass the annoysious commentaries who are these guys? And
that that's where we were in two thousand and one.
Who who I mean? I'm John Madden broadcast in the
Super Bowl. I thought, oh, this poor Patriots having to
go up against the Ram. I mean, that was I mean,
(25:22):
and that's part of what made that a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Can you think back to your mindset heading into the
season in two thousand and one. Obviously no one could
have envisioned going down and Tom, but was their optimism
like that? You would you know, like as Matt said,
you sort of got the house in order a little,
You got all those free agents in How good did
you think you might be able to?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I just wanted to see this make some progress. That
was really you know, you know, come on, we went
to a stay string of games in two in the
first year two thousand where we got a head of
teams and lost at the end. So you're losing games.
But at least, as.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
It was, it was a much more competitive team than people.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Remember, at least we were getting ahead of people. So
I mean, I was I was hoping we would we
would make progress. I mean, we had a lot of
things come together. But remember after after week eleven, we
were six and five, and of course the the last
game we lost was again there was the Sunday which
(26:25):
in reality that that had a huge part in beating
the Rams in the Super Bowl because we we'd gone
up against them, we had we had a bit of
a feel for them, and we knew we were going
to have to make some changes when we when we
got to play them in the Super Bowl, Whereas the
Rams kind of came in and went with the same
uh to Elijah extent, the same plan they had the
(26:49):
first game. But truthfully, had we not played them, it
would have been harder to beat them in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That's fascinating. So is the is the game in the
regular season where you and Bill kind of looked at
Falk and said, this is the guy.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, this is what everything revolved, right, Well, there were
some you know some other things, you know, I mean
just the whole way we played the game on the
particularly on defense. You know, we were trying to do
some zone blitzers, which we weren't very successful with. So
we really said, hey, we are not going to you know,
we've played them once, We've got a little better feel
(27:30):
for him. We're not going to just go repeat what
we did. Uh, And they were truthfully, I I I
know that the Rams absolutely knew they were playing the
Pittsburgh Steelers and there's only one week, so you know,
to get ready for that game. So that was the
(27:53):
whole a lot of the things in the preparation or
advantage Josh, and believe me, we needed every advantage we
could get to beat that team. I mean that that
was a real good Rams seam on both sides of the.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Ball that one week, because you know, that hadn't happened
in years, you know, and that was a big deal
because of nine to eleven. Asking if because you're saying
that the fact that you played him in the regular season,
it's not a completely different opponent. You know what you
did wrong, Well, we can't do this again, or it's
going to be a smoke show. You know, did that
(28:28):
help because you had such a condensed period of time
to prepare?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I think so, yeah, I mean we had I mean,
we've we played. We played the AFC Championship game against
the Steelers on Sunday afternoon. We get back in and
we're gonna the buses leaven to go to the ones
at remember it. Well, yeah, right, that's kind that's called
a fast turnaround. And basically we did. You know, we
(28:54):
had the parameters of our strategy for the bill and
I mapped out on that plane. So and we had, uh,
you know, here we are, We're going to do what
we think we can do best. We just we'll go
with it and let's see see what happens. And we
had a great week of practice down in New Orleans,
(29:15):
man everything, you know, for the first fifteen minutes of
the game, we threw a shout out at them.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
You mentioned the idea of being the little engine that
could versus fifteen years later and you're the evil Empire.
Is it more fun being the little engine that could?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Ah? Well, you can only be the little engine that
could once. Okay, I mean if you if you're going
to actually go out and repeat, you know, you can't
say as much as I would like to you, oh yeah, Yo,
we've won five super Bowls, but we're really just no, no, no.
Right at such stage, you know that that becomes unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
So but I think I wanted to ask a little
bit about you had mentioned on that plane ride. You know,
you and Bill sat down. That's basically where you got
the parameters. You're famous for being the guy that Bill.
You know, there's times where Bill says, Okay, I don't
need to hear from anybody. I'm just talking to Ernie
during games. You know, what is it exactly?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Is it strategy? Is it clock management?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Or you know, could be anything above. And when I
mentioned you know that this goes back to nineteen seventy.
I mean we've been having a football company.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
We've been fascinating.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
We've been having a football conversation for fifty years. I mean,
we were you know, you know, at the Giants. We
go for long runs together, you know, I mean we've
gone through and sometimes you know, because we can do
we can do a lot of things very quickly, you know,
because we have some common reference points. You know, something
(30:49):
happened in Cleveland nineteen ninety three, nobody else on the
face of planet Earth will remember about you know, Bill,
you remember what we did in Cleveland, and this really
worked in this situation. And you know, we can make
big changes in a hurry because we spent so much
time talking to you know, we know what we know
what each other is talking about.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
So we're going to put you on the tea here, okay,
because you related this story to me about a Giants
game against the Rams, and I don't know if it
was seventy nine or eight eighty one, eighty one, sorry,
and how that relates to one of the most famous
games and one of the most famous plays in Patriot history.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Sure, well, we were the nineteen eighty one Giants. I mean,
we'd come off a bad year in nineteen eighty We
were four and twelve. We had the second pick in
the draft where we took Lawrence Taylor. That was I mean,
that was a difference maker for that franchise. But we
were we were six and seven, and we kind of
knew that well, if we were going to the playoffs,
(31:47):
we were going to have to win win three in
a row. We were playing, you know, a good Rams
team who had I mean they had played the Steelers
in the Super Bowl. Very very close game, but I
think they're actually ahead of the Steelers in the fourth quarter,
and we were in a tight game of them, and
we were in a fourth and one situation out in
(32:09):
the field, and normally out in the field you don't
want to play goal line defense because they if the
other team breaks through, there's nobody left and it could
be a long run for a touchdown. Well, we're fourth
to one and build ourselves. That was his first year
as our defensive coordinator to the Giants, and really, it
doesn't matter whether they break an eighty yard touch wherever
(32:31):
the ball was on the fifty yard touchdown or a
one yard gain. If they get the first down, the
game's over. So in that situation, going goal line is
the thing to do. Get everybody close to the ball
and make sure they don't get a yard. And if
you know, like I said, really, if the one yard
of fifty yards doesn't make a difference, you're going to
lose the game. Well, fast forward, we're in the Snow Bowl,
(32:53):
the playoff with the Raiders after the one season, and
we're fifteen to go in the game. We took our
last time out the Raiders had a third and one
out in the middle of the field, and it's really
clear we're either going to make the stop, make get them,
get them the punt and we get the ball, or
if they get the first down, we have no timeouts,
the game is over. And that situation was what do
(33:15):
we want to do on defense? And that's just kind
of flashed right there. Hey, there's no question we want
to go goal line here. So having the conversation with
Bill and Romeo Cornell and I tried, I try to
stay off the I have a button on my I
had a button on my phone I could push allowed
me to talk. Well, you don't want to eight people
(33:36):
talking on the line at once, so really I kept
my voice off, and that was something I had to say,
but I said, hey, I think we want to go
goal line here. Of course Bill and Romeo, who had
both been there for that, I don't know if they
thought of that, rams came but there, Hey, that's it.
Let's let's go with it, and we put our goal
line defense in which the ram the Raiders, excuse me,
we're not really ready for. In a third and one
(33:58):
situation out in the field, Richard Seymour made a big play.
We made him punt, you know, and that and then
that led to all the fun. But you know that
was you know, when you've been through a critical situation,
what you know, I mean, it's kind of say, hey,
I mean I have thought of this play in ten years,
but this is this is probably what we need to do.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So that verbal shorthand, which comes with a fifty year relationship, right,
the fact that you can finish his sentence and vice versa, right,
that's where it becomes so valuable. It's not cutting time.
You don't need to hear from fifteen people about what's
going on and this is what.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
We need and you don't have time to you know,
I mean, this is you know, it's the ball is
going to be snapped there in about twenty five seconds.
You don't have time for, you know, a thirty minute
dissertation here. You got to you know, you got to
get some get something done right right now. It's not
going in You're in a regular season game. You know
(34:58):
you're going in halftime. Well that goes so fast, I
mean plays, you know, they got to go to the
training room. Coaches got to get together for about two
minutes decide what they're going to do you know, and
then you you know, and then you have any change
you want to make you do. I mean you've got
to be able really to communicate and do things very quickly.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Did you have a favorite team?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
You know?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Out of all that you had so many teams that
were successful, was there one of them that stuck out
to you?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Ah? Boy, hard to beat the two thousand and one team.
I mean that was just uh yeah, that was so
there was so much fun. I mean, we know, I
like Bobby Hamilton, one of my favorite Patriots players, said,
you know, hey, we shocked the world, you know, and
and and we did. I remember going uh, you know,
(35:44):
the Saturday afternoon before before the Super Bowl, we went
to a you know, a hideaway hotel up by the
New Orleans Airport and you know, going bay, you know,
you go, but we drove out past the Supernome. I
see you know, the you know, the SWAT guys who
were up on the room and you know, with all
you know, the security they had, you know, after nine
(36:05):
to eleven, I mean, they were ready for anything. I
mean we had where their practicident to Lane University and
we got the United States Air Force going overhead with
f sixties and I knew, you know, hey, can we
beat the Rams? I don't know, but we're ready to
give it our best shot.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So after the game earning, you know, the super Bowls,
you guys are in the last game, you win the
Super Bowl? Did you shock the world? Did you not
shock the world? At some point in time? I know
that at least my experience in talking to people who
do this, the train's moving. We got to get ready
for the two thousand and two season. As you guys
are sitting down after winning the Super Bowl and you
start your organizational meetings, other people in the organization have
(36:46):
had meetings stuff like that is they were a conversation
like what just happened? And we got a lot of
hole like this isn't the eighty five Bears yet we're
talking about, well, you know, we got a lot of hope,
but we won this. This is unbelievable. How do we now?
You know, we got a lot of holes to fill here,
don't you right?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I mean I mean, we yeah, we were. We did
not I'm sure we could probably go back and find
things we wish you'd done differently, but we did. We
did not compare ourselves, you know, to the uh you know,
to to you know the forty, you know, the Bill
Wash forty or anything like that. But you know, we've
(37:26):
always we always did a pretty good job. Hey, we're
going to start off next year zero and zero, and
you know, everybody's gonna be gunning for us, and we
understood what, you know, what the challenge was.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Does it make it easier to do that? I mean,
you won the last game, which is every team's goal.
Does it make it easier to do that after say
a two thousand and one year as opposed to say
a two thousand and four or twenty fourteen team. You
guys are really really good, and you know that you're
really good.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I think I think we tried to do a
good job of just hey, it's a new season. Nobody, nobody,
nobody's going to come in here and want to look
at our scrap books. They're gonna come in here want
and you know, knock our heads off. You know, we understand.
It's you know, it's the National Football League and uh,
you know, it is a new season, so we have
(38:20):
to It's i mean, every every season is a unique challenge.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Obviously, all the playoff games and Super Bowls, and and
that kind of success would stand out. But is there
a game that, maybe a regular season game, that stood
out to you that maybe we wouldn't just necessarily snap
our finger. Oh I remember that game, but one that
drew particular pride for you guys finding a way to win.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Well. One of my favorites was in you know, in
two thousand and three playing the Colts. I mean, we
got a big lead. They they yeah, yeah, yeah, you
remember that one. They they they.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Know this is the Willie McGinnis game.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Who's who's it coming back for that team? Was Mike Cloud,
wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
It probably was? Yeah, yeah, fake injury. Yeah. But by
the end, you know, it's just coming down the one
play at the end, I mean, we've been up, I hate,
we've been up by thirty eighth to Tanner Shop, and
they came back to me at thirty you know, Peyton
Manning was tearing us up. Came down the one play
(39:23):
they handed them off the edge and James William McGinnis
hit him three yards in the backfield, and you know,
we won the game. I mean, that's that's one that
always kind of.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, that was a fun game and people never really
think about it in these turns. But one play that
you make allows that playoff game to be at home
instead of on the road, because that changes the whole
complexion of the records and the tie breakers and all
that stuff. And people never look at it that way.
But just how close and what a what a great
(39:55):
rivalry it was with you guys. It's just tremendous to watch.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Right, I mean you had I mean, look, I know
when the schedule came out there was Peyton Manning and
Bill Polly and they all circle the game with the Patriots. Well,
I got news for you. With the schedule, I circled
the game. We know everybody's going to be there. We
know what it's gonna We know Dwight Freene's going to
try to beat Matt White with a spin move. In
(40:19):
the whole uh, the whole bit. We had, uh you know,
some some great games against them, so you know, some
we won, so you know some they won.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
It was a great competition, great competition. Ernie was there.
I don't know if there was the aha moment. And
I've had a conversation with Charlie Weiss where there was
something that he said that sort of he thinks clicked
for him. But do you is there a moment in
time when you realized, with Tom, this isn't your average,
This isn't just some sort of a journey man, right,
(40:50):
you know what, this guy might be pretty good. Nobody
could figure what he's you know, what he's going on
to be. But was there a time when you said,
you know what, this guy might be our right, we
might okay with this guy? Can you remember that?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I don't know, I don't think. I don't know that
it was one specific play, But I mean as we
started playing in two thousand and one, you know, I mean,
Tom just got got better every week. You know, the
team responded well, he was you know, he was doing well.
So I think I think it was more of a
process rather than you know, one play.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay, but based on that process and maybe the body
of work was that, you know, certainly the team was
comfortable trading Bled so the following in the offseason and
stuff like that, and he said, you know what, I
think we're going to be all right with this guy
as our quarterback going forward. That fair you saw enough
and it wasn't a huge sample size, right.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Right, Well, I mean, being being realistic about it, we
knew after the two thousand and one season, the town
was going to be our quarterback. We weren't going to
have Drew here as our backup. Okay, I mean that
just wasn't I mean that that that realist Stickley was
not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Ernie just encapsulated about six months of talk radio right
right in the thirty second clip. I mean, if there
was a no brainer, I know what people look at
it like, oh what what gots it? Tom was the quarterback,
you just won the Super Bowl. He had to be
the quarterback in O two, and therefore you can't have
one hundred million dollar backup looming over his shoulder. And
that's why, like for me, the one game for me
(42:25):
for Tom and one because I was a big Drew guy,
truth be told, I loved the guy and I thought
he was a pretty good quarterback, obviously not anywhere near
what Tom has been. But the New Orleans game in
you know, in Foxborough in the rain was around the
time that Drew had come back. It may have been
the week after the Rams game. Drew was getting some
(42:46):
starting to get some reps in practice, and there was
some you know, bickering about how much he was getting
ready and you know, this was the time where a
kid might be looking over his shoulder, and he responded
with a four touchdown game. He played as well in
that game. I think he played in any of him.
It wasn't one of those We'll be handed off to
Antoine Smith thirty seven times and they won the game
because they won thirteen to ten. Tom lit it up,
(43:08):
and that to me, I was like, whoa, this kid's
better than I thought.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
No question. That was a big, big offensive.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Day for And that was the day that I said,
that was the day that I said that Tru's got
to go. As much as I loved Thru, I did, right,
I mean, it was a no brainer.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Right, I mean it was just not there was no
way that, like say, there's no way that trade wasn't
gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Right, and we broken on Patriots dot.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Ernie. You saw him as part of something with the Giants.
He goes to Cleveland, he builds something in Cleveland. But
this idea of building a culture and a culture that's
now well into its twenty something year and something like that,
what's the secret or is there a secret in getting
everybody on the same page and checking your ego at
the door and doing what's best for the team. Is
(44:00):
that the secret to try to longevity.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
That it's it's it's just take it one day at
a time, get better every day.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
But that's so easy to say.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
It's so hard to do. It's so hard to do.
But you just, you know, we keep hammering it and
you get, you know, you get you get some players
who have success with it, and then they start to
buy in so that when a new guy comes in,
the veteran player can come and go put his arm
around the new guys. Hey, look, buddy, this is the
way it works around here. And some people who come
in from outside, uh can take it. And some, you know, some,
(44:37):
to be honest with you, looks, I didn't know he
really worked this hard. I'm not sure this is uh,
this is free. I mean it's I always say if
you're if you're just into winning football games, then New
England Place is the place to be. If you've got
other things on your on your agenda, it's probably you're
probably not gonna like it.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Very much, right And and I don't know if this
is fear or not bring up the name or something
like that, but Patriots fans were enamored by a guy
in the great cult rivalry, Jonas Gray two hundred yards,
you know, and look at look at this guy and
everything like that, and they just found somebody else the
next week or the week after that. It's this is
(45:16):
what it takes to sustain the program. And you either
jump on board or you don't jump on board. I
don't know how great an example that is. I just
think of somebody who flashed, you know, But the program
isn't about somebody who flashes. It's about the team.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
It's about the team and showing up every day. And
football football is a messy game. This is not figure skating.
There are no style points. Things don't always work right.
But it's just showing up every day, trying to learn
from your mistakes, get better every day, help the guy
next to you. I mean, it's about what it takes
(45:53):
to be really successful in a lot of businesses.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
Thinking of the game itself, though we talked a little
bit earlier about you know, the seventies and now and
even the way the game has changed even more recently
ten years ago. What are your thoughts on on the
way the game has played today, and do you like it?
Nor is it more skill based, you know, maybe some
speed or did you kind of like the physicality?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Well, you know, one thing of course we got you know,
we played with you know, Tom Brady and every oh
it's Tom Brady throwing the ball. But we were always
a very physical running team. Okay, even though we were
spread out and we could we could throw the ball,
we also could hand the ball off and pound it.
(46:39):
So I mean, I don't think I think you know,
to be able to win today's football, I mean, there
are multi more wide receivers on the field, so it's
nickel defense on the field that's more spread out. But
there are times when you've got to be able to
come off the ball and run it. I mean, if
you're if you really want to be good, I mean,
(47:00):
and it's you, yeah, you you can go. You you
can have a ten win season just you know, throwing
the ball. But if you really, if you really want to,
you know, end up being you know, playing being one
of the final four. It's really hard to do without
being able to be physical.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And does that physicality start on the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
It's absolutely if you have a soft offensive line, you're
not going anywhere because soft offensive line is not gonna
be a real good pass protecting offensive.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Line, right, So I saved my toughest one for last.
So you spanned a lot of eras of Patriots, Football,
pat Patriot or Elvis.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Pat Patriot every time.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Sorry, no, you're not alone. We get a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I mean because I go back Hey, I mean I do,
I go back to I never went to a game
of Brave Field. I wasn't Friday Nights of f Park.
I mean I thought that was you know, I mean,
that was pat Patriot. That that said, that's that's Boston,
that's New England. That's for me.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Every time I hear my first game, and I'm going
to give Earning a chance to show up because he
has no idea what the game is going to be.
At seventy six, it was a Monday night game against
the Jets. First game.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and of course we started putting
men in motion. They had no clue, so it was
the game was a massacre. And what I fortunately remember
was at Shaeffer Stadium because it was right near our offices.
The the officers of the law had some.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Had show I learned some stuff that night. Doesn't need
your old honey.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, yeah, So what the cops say. All they could
do was hand cuff them to the lead fast and well,
let me, I'll show you. I'll show you to take
his heads off me. And it was really right by
the door that we all came on.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
It was an amazing sight. My father, grandfather and uncle
took me and they literally made a triangle around me
and we're walking out and they're like, just keep going
this way, not don't worry about that over there straight ahead.
They didn't want me to see any of this. There
was literally hundreds of people like handcuffs, chain link fence.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Did Grogan score on a bootleg in that game?
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Like forty yards long long touchdown, right right?
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Forty one to seven?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Ernie. As a kid, as you said,
you went to the Dexter School, you grew up around here.
You've experienced the NFL in a couple of different places.
But to be able to be with your hometown team
and and have the success that you had, you know, Bill, always,
as you've talked about, it's the next practice, it's the
next game. But now that you are retired, can you
(49:49):
look back at it and go, holy smokes, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Absolutely sure, I mean I.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
And is it fun for you to do that? Do
you take a sort of pride.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Out of it?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
I mean, I mean I've got every you know, every
every year, you know, you win the Super Bowl, they
do a special issue of Sports Illustrated. Man, I've got
all the issues that we won there. I've got them
all signed, you know, by every by everybody who's on there.
I mean, I've got them all up, you know, all
my well, sure, I mean, I know, I know. Even
though when you're in it, it's hey, let's get ready
(50:22):
for the next practice. Let's run the ball off tackle better?
Sure you shit back there? You know, Hey we had
you know, one of the great maybe the the greatest
run in the history of the national football That's a
big deal.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
It is a big deal and and easy for us
to say on the outside, but you never say never.
But that kind of level of success and sustainability, you
don't replicate that. You've seen too much of it. There
are too many, too too many good teams, too many
smart people, too many good players. Right, it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
To really look. Winning at once is really hard. We're
doing it repeatedly. Is you know it's a it's a
phenomenal accomplishment. But again, the biggest thing was when you're
doing it, you're just thinking about, hey, the next play,
next game. Let's just you know, it's one game. And
(51:11):
you know, I know people say, oh, it's coach Stock
one game at a time, but it's the key to
success in getting people to believe it is the key
is the key to success.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
But Paul asked you a question about one and is
this is this also part of the key Ernie where
he said did you have any expectations in one? And
you answered, I wanted to see progress? Is that kind
of the key for your team, whether you're twelve and
four or four and twelve? Can we just make progress?
Speaker 2 (51:39):
Right? Can we get Can we when we're going out
to practice and training camp? We're a better football team
when we come off the field than when we went
on it. Now, look, I understand if you're if you're
going into if you're going in coaching this year at
the Jacksonville Jaguars, you have you are truly just hoping
to get better because you know you have to get
(52:03):
a little bit better. You know you have a long
way to go. Whereas there were you know some of
our teams would pay for you. I knew, Hey, realistically
we should be able to compete with everybody in the league.
But you're still It's still you go every day trying
to get better. That's why you know, I see the
big picture you got right behind you. You know number
twelve throwing the ball. That's why he you know, he
(52:24):
would jump on a receiver for cutting his road off
at nine yards instead of twelve yards. Because it's doing
it's all the little things. It's all the details. Every
day you have to do it and get it right
because when you get down to those critical situations in
the championship game where you know you got the whole
season's riding now one play, it's the ability to execute
(52:47):
the fundamentals just right that makes the difference.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
So on that note, and you mentioned twelve throwing the ball.
Twelve goes down in the first quarter in two thousand
and eight, Okay, you're a team that had were a
series away from going nineteen and oh you've got a
really good team still coming back. That team can go
down the toilet pretty quickly, even though you still had
a pretty good group of guys around you. I'm not saying,
(53:10):
you guys are popping champagne after eleven and five and
that windy game in Buffalo to end the season, But
is there a sense of pride, like, you know what,
we didn't go down the toilet. We did kind of
keep our head above water, and we salvage something with
what we were doing, and maybe we did improve by
the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
You know. I that's I expect us to play that way. Okay,
it's not. I mean, it's what you know, It's it's
what we do. I mean, going out doing our best
every day, trying to be competitive. I mean that's uh,
you know, that's nothing to me, nothing special about that,
because it's it's the way we approached every every year,
(53:51):
every game, every practice, you know, every play.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
So maybe does that validate it? Yeah, that's why we
do this. That's why we do this.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, yeah, right, I mean we're going you know, you
you know, in the National Football League, you're gonna go
out on Sunday, You're gonna have millions of people watching. Uh.
I mean, that's that's always in the back of your mind.
And we we're gonna have a team playing against us
that's gonna be doing everything they can to beat us.
I mean that's just you know, the competitive part of
(54:20):
the game.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
His name is Ernie Adams. Ernie tremendous stuff as usual.
Really appreciate you taking the time to join us and
uh continued enjoyment in your non football days as.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
You enjoy retirement.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
Thanks for coming down.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Vent a pleasure.
I appreciate it. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe
on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
Like the show, please rate and review us.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
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to check Patriots dot com for more news and more podcasts.
It's time now for another episode of Pats from the
Past podcast. I'm Natt Smith alongside with Paul Perrillo when
we're pleased today to be joined by Ernie Adams, who
spans many years here in the Patriots Organization. Ernie, how
are you doing today? And thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm great and it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It's a good get for Matt. It was stepping up
our client. Tell a little bit here, Matt, I.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Think most Patriot fans please tell me if you disagree.
Probably I'll know that Ernie's now retired, which is at
once a very sad day for the Patriots Organization because
of all the success he's helped be a part of,
but probably a great day for Ernie and his family.
How do you enjoy retirement?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Every day is great? Ah, I'm in total control of
my time and that's uh. You know, it's sixty nine
years old. That's a great place to be.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Did you ever was it?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Like?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It amazed to me some people. I'm going to work
until you know whenever? Was retirement something that you did
you think about that as you were working? Like, you
know what one day I think I would like to
slow down and and see some things that I never
or do some things I never had.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
A chance to do well. Probably over the last couple
of years, I knew I knew it was going to come.
Dying at the office was never part of the plan.
Uh So it's it felt like the right time.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
For Patriots fans who don't know Ernie's a would you
would you classify yourself as a voracious reader?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's probably a fair assessment.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yes, what are you reading now that you would recommend
to Patriot fans that you enjoy that you're enjoying?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Mean, oh boy, that's uh for Patriots fans that they
would really enjoy. Uh. Read a great book about Maynard Keynes. Uh.
Author's last name is O'Toole. I think I have to
get the title Time of Peace. Great great book about
(02:06):
how economics or a social phenomenon, not a hard science
that that might be at the top of my timely topic.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Very timely capulated.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask you, you know, when
Matt was talking about the retirement stuff, just what was
what was the season like for you last year? Sort
of you know, what did you do on a typical
NFL Sunday. Were you watching intently or were you doing
apple picking? You know with the fan.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So I watched. I certainly watched Patriots games. And if
there were teams that were interesting to me, uh, you know,
then then I would watch them. I did not sit
there glued watching you know, every uh every game that
came on.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, players will say that when they see the games
or it gets to be training camp, those that have retired,
that there's an itch that comes back. Did you ever
have an inch or was there was had that been scratched?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Pm I would say, I would say it's the itch
had been scratched. I mean it's game days. The is
the fun time, uh, you know, driving home on Tuesday nights,
worrying about heitting a deer out on nine nine five.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
That's don't get Matt going on that. He's that's one
of his hat irrational fears.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Right, there are deer out there, I know, right, right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So this is a fascinating career that you've had, Ernie,
as a younger person, what sparked was it, can you
think of one thing where that ignition sort of happened?
And you said, man, I'm really interested in this In
the game of football.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Sure it was when I was an eighth eighth grader
at Dexter School in Brookline. Uh, football was mandatory intramurro,
so there was no no choice. I want to play football,
I don't. If you're at Dexter School, you're going to
play football. And I was the athletic director there. George
Downple was just a wonderful human being, and I had
(04:03):
also why don't we do this? Why don't we do that?
And he finally said, look, you're so smart. You coach
your team. We'll see how you do. And that's where
it started.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Did you envision at that point in time, was that
this is this is a real love?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh? I knew, Hey, this is this is a lot
of fun. And it grew from there.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Okay, so you were really into it, and then you know,
you do your your high school and you meet another
guy who's really into it. How long did it take
you to realize? Bill Belichick was pretty similar.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
In his thoughts. Probably about a minute. So of course
weeh we met fall of nineteen seventy. We were both
sior seniors at Phillips Academy in Andover. We played on
an undefeated football team and we had a great time together,
and it was It's basically started a fifty plus year
(04:54):
conversation about football.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Was it mapped out? Did you guys sort of say
this is this is where we want to go, and
this how we might get there.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
We both knew we really enjoyed football. I can't say
that we're eighteen. We had, you know, every step of
the way mapped out, but things went from went from there.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And so how did that happen maybe or increase the
likelihood or maybe increased your love of the game When
you were at Northwestern.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, I was, of course it was Bill's Bill's dad,
Steve made an introduction to me at Northwestern and that
worked great. And then when I finished at Northwestern, I
came June of nineteen seventy five, I had an interview
with Chuck Fairbanks about joining his staff. And what really
(05:45):
worked for me was that Check had been coach at
the University of Oklahoma. He was used to having graduate
assistants and there's young coaches who did all the lot
of the grunt work, so he was it was kind
of no risk for Chuck. It was it was a
tryout basis. He said, look, if this goes well, great,
if not, I'll let you go. So about I came
(06:09):
in and interviewed with Chuck on a Monday, and I
had a conversation probably a day or two after with Bill,
with Bill Belichick when he just graduated from Wesley, and
told him what I was doing, and he said, you know,
that sounds like a pretty good place to be in
the NFL instead of going to college. So he went
in shortly thereafter and talked to Ted Marsha brought at
(06:34):
the Colts and that's where he started at the Colts.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I think people like Paul and myself look at what
the NFL is today. It's just mega monster and everything
like that. But can you talk about like the job
interview in nineteen seventy five for the New England Patriots
in the NFL. Yeah, we think of the NFL as
this big deal. I'm not saying it wasn't a big
deal in nineteen seventy five. That's still the highest league.
But what was that like like in nineteen seventy five, Ernie,
(06:58):
We like getting your introduction of the NFL.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, I mean, I Chuck Fairbanks was just a wonderful
person to work with, and that was that that was
a big deal. Of course, the league was was much
smaller if in fact, if you remember in nineteen seventy five,
the Patriots was still a publicly traded company. You could
go to the Boston Stock Exchange and buy a sheriff
(07:22):
to England Patriots. Well, one of the uh the results
of that was as a publicly traded company, the Patriots
had to publish every year their complete financial statements, which
I have a copy of their last annual report and
I gave I gave a copy of that Robert Kraft.
(07:42):
I said, now, don't laugh when you look up. I mean,
it was, you know, it was, it was the National
Football League, but it was so much it was it
was smaller than it was, and that was obviously right.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
And you know, Matt and I are, you know, of
similar age, and we have a sort of affection. Would
you say for those teams seventy six, seventy seven, you know,
that era of Patriots football was when we were kids
and we were really really getting into it. And I'm
just curious your thoughts on just how good you know,
you mentioned Chuck Fairbanks, the talent that he brought here,
how good some of those teams were that maybe kind
(08:17):
of forgotten because of all the success you and Bill
have had.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, of course, I was with the Patriots then for
four years, from nineteen seventy five through seventy eight. The
nineteen seventy five, the year before I got here. In
seventy four, the Patriots, if you remember, had started six
and one and then and ended one and then one
and six, sources seven and seven overall record. And then
(08:42):
in seventy five we had our team went on strike
the day before the last preseason game with the Jets.
So we were, may may seem most strange, we were
playing the Jets in the last preseason game playing in
the It was that game was going to be play
in the Yale Bowl. So we had a usual Saturday
(09:03):
morning workout and we had lunch in the old Stadium
club over with the Schaeffer Stadium. The players, after lunch
decided to go to go out on strike, and they
didn't come back till I think Wednesday of the following
week of the open over the Ears. But that that
really cast a a pall over the over the whole season.
(09:28):
And then of course, you know, Jim Plunkett heard his
shoulder and so we went, Yeah, that gave Steve Grogan
a chance to play with the rookie. So the first year,
you know, three eleven, that was a real disappointment. But
the next year coming back, of course, we went eleven
and three in the regular season. I probably remember the
Oakland Raiders won the Super Bowl that year. Well, in
(09:50):
the they were thirteen and one in the regular season.
That one loss was when we beat them. I think
it was like forty eight to fourteen.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I was at that game.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I remember, I'm going to go seventeen.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
It was a blower, it was.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
It was a blowout, complete blowout. Yeah. And then of
course we played them in the the infamous Divisional playoff
game where we had them third. You know, we've got
we had a lead, had them third and eighteen. They
throw an incomplete passion. Ray Hamilton gets called for roughing
the passer. Let's say, probably a bit of a marginal call,
(10:28):
you know. When they went on to you know, to
beat us right at the animals, Stable kept the ball
winning for the winning touch up. But that was my
point is that in seventy six, I mean, we were
we were a championship caliber team, even though you know
we didn't win. Most seasons still end up being, you know,
(10:48):
two or three teams playing at the towards the end
of the season that really have a legitimate chance to win,
and we were one of them.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
A lot of players and a lot of coaches. It's
not necessarily the wins that they enjoy reminiscing about. It's
those losses that they can't get over. And easy for
me to say this, but I wonder does that loss
bug you because you had beaten Pittsburgh already in the
regular season that year in Pittsburgh, by the way, in
no disrespect to Minnesota, but Minnesota wasn't in the same
(11:18):
class that one. You know, I think you can make
a really legitimate argument that that call doesn't get made.
You beat the Steelers and you beat the NFC representative
I was, you.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Know, I'm all presidents. I think that would have happened.
I mean, the two best teams in the league that
year with the Patriots and the Raiders, and they you know,
they came out on the long end of the score,
but I mean we were You hate seeing a game
really come down to, uh, you know, to a call,
(11:51):
but it did.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
You know, how do you you look back at those
it's so different, you know, the way you guys played
with all of the running and the record you guys
ended up setting in seventy eight for the all time
rushing team stat And then you look at the way
the game is played, you know now you know.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Just can you well right, it's become much more of
a passing league. But I will point out you got
a really good team, the Baltimore Ravens, Yeah, who feature
you know, feature the running game. Uh, And they're a
little bit similar to what we were because we had
I think in seventy six, Steve Grogan probably had close
to five hundred yards rushing. So it wasn't just the
(12:31):
running backs who were who were making a lot of
the yards. It was the quarterback as well. And we were,
you know, we we were committed. We were committed to
being a running football team. Although we go when we
had you know, players like Darryl Stingley, Rush Francis, you know,
(12:52):
and Steve a quarterback. When we you know, when we
needed to throw the ball, we could. I mean you
mentioned beating the being the steel in three rivers. I
mean we were down, we were down twenty to nine.
We hit fourth and one hit Russ Francis on a
fifty five yard pass. Then we hit Darryl Stingley on
(13:12):
a big on a big play. So I mean we
had you know, we had players who are very good
passing the ball, but it was we were definitely a
running team first.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Uh you probably my guess is this is maybe it's
wrong and that I should say it this way. Probably
not a big fan of nicknames per se, but I'm
sure you were aware in the day Cosell and calling
Francis all world. Patriot fans today have no idea who
Russ Francis is. They can't remember him anything like that.
My words here, I'd like to say that I think
(13:44):
it was Gronk before Gronk. Is that a fair Is
that a fair statement to make?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I mean the big difference, the biggest difference between Russ
Francis and Rob Gronkowski is that Rob played on a
passing team with a Hall of Fame quarterback. I mean,
Rush was you know, we were more of a running team.
He was a like Rob was a devastating blocker on
the edge. Rushhead, you know, great athletic ability, great hands.
(14:10):
He When you talk, what do you want for a
tight end? What do you think of rush Francis, Rob Gronkowski.
I have no problem putting them in the.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Same that's heady category right.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
In the big plays. Like you know, there was a
couple of years, you know, before all of these modern
guys started being eligible for the Hall of Fame. And
we're in our meetings. I've nominated Russ Francis a couple
of times. I mean, averaging like sixteen yards of catch, right,
I mean, and I'm just an insane total for a
tight end, especially in that era, as Ernie said, with
such a running team, really could I mean, I know
(14:41):
Howard Cosell always said it. He has his little pithy
little phrases, but there's my old world tight end, that's
what he was.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
He could do it all, no question. I mean, we
you know, are probably our featured player was running the
ball off tackle. I mean we had Rush Francis doubling down,
a double team, Sam Cunningham kicking out and John Hannah
leading and we're good backs, but they just had, you know,
realistic at the back, just had to get the ball followed.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Job, right, Ernie, Because you know, you've your career has
spended so much time and the game has chased so
much I'm interested in one.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You mean half a centuries a long time.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
There's a long time when you're sitting in meetings and
in that seventies team, and you guys are sitting down,
can you recall a player, a couple of players. Will
you guys sit around as you're trying to game plan
and go, this guy's a game wrecker. I don't know
how we're going to be able to tend with him.
Who's the guy that caused coaching your coaching staff fits
(15:44):
back in that day?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Oh boy? Well ahead, Uh you could say our last
year in seventy eight playing in the Houston Oilers, Earl Campbell.
Uh No, that he was a was a game wrecker.
I mean my first year in nineteen seventy five going
out to play the Bengals had Isaac Curtis wide receiver
(16:06):
with Kenny Anderson throwing him the ball. I mean we
geared a lot of things to stopping to stopping him.
You play the Raiders, I mean he had now Dave
Casper was another tight end who was a real problem
to play against. I mean those there were you know
we played the Steelers you mentioned beat We beat him
(16:27):
in seventy six. I mean they had Stan and Lynn
Swann and John Stalwarth at wide receiver, and of course
the defense. I mean you got Jack Ham, Joe Green,
Jack Lambert, Andy Russell was the third linebacker who would
be he would be a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate,
with you know, Blunt and Mike Wagner in the secondary.
(16:50):
I mean, that was that was a great, you know,
a great team to play against.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
And we people talk about we use the word dynasty
a lot, you know, and how much it is. And
here's the Steelers. There's no free agency back in the day,
you know, and the fact that they that team could
run out You're just going through some of the names.
I don't know that younger Patriot fans can appreciate how
good that team was and how good that organization was
(17:13):
at that at that time, right.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, Well, I mean you're talking about winning, uh, you know,
winning winning four Super Bowls in six years. I mean
it was still I mean, to win the championship of
the National Football League, you got to beat everybody else
in the league. I mean, that part of it hasn't
you know, hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And they were, you know, and even the team we
beaten seventy six. Who did you know I did not
go on the Super Bowl. I mean, that's why they're mean.
They had some injuries, but I mean the Steeler defense
that year, I mean, it was just that's that's what
they get. That was the year I think they came
(17:52):
up with the name of steel Curtain and that's about
what it was.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Should you have did the did Chuck leaving in seventy eight?
Did that? Did that derail the seventy eighteam.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
At the end, it's well it didn't. It certainly didn't help.
You know, when you have you a championship team, when
you get on a run, you got everybody totally focused
the zero it in every day nothing, You're not letting
anything else distract you. And then you get to the
end of the season, Oh, the head coaches leaving, Well
(18:27):
that kind of everybody, whoa, wait, what's what's going on here?
I mean, that's that's absolutely never a good thing. And
of course, our last the last regular season game when
it all came out, was Monday night down in the
Orange Bowl, and we had the scene where Chuck told
(18:48):
the team in the afternoon he was going to University
of Colorado. Billy Sullivan came in into the locker room
and he was going to suspend Shock. What Chuck could
talk to is any who said you do not resign,
make them fire you. So he had the back and forth.
Billy said, you're suspended the head coach going, does that
(19:08):
mean I'm fired? No, you suspended in the locker room
before they and then of.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Course this is what we dealt with in our childhood.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And then of course the the unfortunate pictures. You got
Chuck walking walking on the Orange Bowl in the middle
of the second quarter, carrying, you know, carrying his bag,
and then he came back for the for the playoff game,
and of course Steve Grogan got hurt in the playoff game.
So I mean that, I mean that was that our
seventy eight team in the middle of the season. We
(19:38):
could play with anybody, but you know, that was probably
too much for for anybody to over Complus, we ended
up playing the Oilers with Earld Campbell.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And good parlor game. Who's a better team, Earnie, the
seventy eight team or the seventy sixteen.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You know, I must say probably the seventy eight team
because we had on seventy eight instead of having a
Steve Grogan being a rookie quarterback. He was his third year.
We had Stanley Morgan and Harold Jackson at receiver, which
we were a little more explosive on offense in seventy eight.
(20:16):
Of course, the seventy sixteen was the one that you know,
in the end, it was closest to winning a championship.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah, I would agree, though seventy eight, I think they
had more ams, probably with the ownership, and there was
more animosity at that time because those guys have been
around a few years and we're kind of tired of
the way they would try to know. It seemed like
someone was holding out every training camp. It was tough
as a ten year old kid, it was tough to
read about the team at that time because of all
those off field things, right.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I give tremendous credit
to Billy Sullivan for keeping professional starting professional football in Boston,
you know, getting a team belt. But it was I mean,
the organization was realistically being run on our shoe.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
String, and everybody that was involved at the time says
it exactly the way already just did, right, you know,
it was a tremendous passion that Billy Sullivan had, and
it was a lot like Robert. He was a fan first,
like he wanted football to succeed here. He just didn't
have the resources to do it the right.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Way, right.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
And so then you go Ernie and you get to
a couple of places that maybe do do it the
right way. You know, you see how it's run in
New York, and you see how it's run in Cleveland,
and those are two premier NFL franchises.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, when we got to the when we got to
the to the Giants in nineteen seventy nine, and of
course Ray Perkins was became the head coach, who had
been the receiver coach here on Check Fairbanks's staff from
seventy five through seventy seven. But they were coming off
the Herman Edwards recovery of the Joe Bizzar Chick fumble.
(21:58):
You know, they'd had the airplane fly over Giants stadium.
Fifteen years of lousy football. We've had enough, And I said,
when we got to the Giants, if you remember the
old television show F Troop, this was like taking over
F Troop. I mean it was a we had a
few good young defensive players but the organization was was
(22:20):
mired back in the nineteen forties someplace, And of course
he talked about ownership. I mean he had Wellington Mara
and Tim Mather, Tim Marra that was an uncle and
nephew who it was a fifty to fifty split, and
the tour. They just lived in different worlds basically. So
(22:41):
the commissioner, Pete Roselle, basically he went out and found
George Young who was at the Miami Dolphins, and he
told the marriage, look, you're going to hire George Young
as the general manager and just signed the team over
to him, which is which is what happened. But that
was But you say, yeah, the Giants, I mean, it's
in New York. It's a classy operation. But going in
(23:03):
there in the spring of nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
We had a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay. So then, so let's fast forward a little bit.
Was the organization the team wasn't very good when Bill
called you in two thousand and said I'm going to
New England. Let's go to New England. It wasn't the
f troop at that point in time. But your financials
from a salary cap were a mess, right, Like the
football team wasn't in great shape at.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
That point, right, No, it was, we had I mean,
we had some work to do, and that for that
first season was certainly frustrating. I mean it took basically
a whole year to get everybody on the same page.
And then of course, going into two thousand and one,
we did a great job with you know, being going
(23:52):
signs for free you know, signs for free agency. You know,
like Mike Crable brought some guys in for you know
who Bill and known at the Jets, like you know,
Fifer and just had a I mean that that made
a huge difference. And then, of course, I mean everybody
knows in the second game Drew got hurt and Tom
came in playing quarterback and that, uh, I mean everything,
(24:15):
I mean everything jelled, But it was I mean if
that old one team, I mean we got playing really
well at the end, and obviously we won the championship.
I mean we weren't really a juggernaut at that stage.
I mean, I tell people, I mean in the two
thousand and one team, we were just a little engine
(24:37):
that could. I mean, this is like fifteen years before
we became the Evil Empire. I mean we were, I mean,
we were just some guys going out there. And the
one I remember was we went out and we played
played the Colts in Indianapolis, and that was where David
Patton had the they threw for a touchdown, Ram for
(25:00):
a touchdown, and Conda Testown when he threw the touch
up ass the annoysious commentaries who are these guys? And
that that's where we were in two thousand and one.
Who who I mean? I'm John Madden broadcast in the
Super Bowl. I thought, oh, this poor Patriots having to
go up against the Ram. I mean, that was I mean,
(25:22):
and that's part of what made that a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Can you think back to your mindset heading into the
season in two thousand and one. Obviously no one could
have envisioned going down and Tom, but was their optimism
like that? You would you know, like as Matt said,
you sort of got the house in order a little,
You got all those free agents in How good did
you think you might be able to?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I just wanted to see this make some progress. That
was really you know, you know, come on, we went
to a stay string of games in two in the
first year two thousand where we got a head of
teams and lost at the end. So you're losing games.
But at least, as.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
It was, it was a much more competitive team than people.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Remember, at least we were getting ahead of people. So
I mean, I was I was hoping we would we
would make progress. I mean, we had a lot of
things come together. But remember after after week eleven, we
were six and five, and of course the the last
game we lost was again there was the Sunday which
(26:25):
in reality that that had a huge part in beating
the Rams in the Super Bowl because we we'd gone
up against them, we had we had a bit of
a feel for them, and we knew we were going
to have to make some changes when we when we
got to play them in the Super Bowl, Whereas the
Rams kind of came in and went with the same
uh to Elijah extent, the same plan they had the
(26:49):
first game. But truthfully, had we not played them, it
would have been harder to beat them in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
That's fascinating. So is the is the game in the
regular season where you and Bill kind of looked at
Falk and said, this is the guy.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, this is what everything revolved, right, Well, there were
some you know some other things, you know, I mean
just the whole way we played the game on the
particularly on defense. You know, we were trying to do
some zone blitzers, which we weren't very successful with. So
we really said, hey, we are not going to you know,
we've played them once, We've got a little better feel
(27:30):
for him. We're not going to just go repeat what
we did. Uh, And they were truthfully, I I I
know that the Rams absolutely knew they were playing the
Pittsburgh Steelers and there's only one week, so you know,
to get ready for that game. So that was the
(27:53):
whole a lot of the things in the preparation or
advantage Josh, and believe me, we needed every advantage we
could get to beat that team. I mean that that
was a real good Rams seam on both sides of the.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Ball that one week, because you know, that hadn't happened
in years, you know, and that was a big deal
because of nine to eleven. Asking if because you're saying
that the fact that you played him in the regular season,
it's not a completely different opponent. You know what you
did wrong, Well, we can't do this again, or it's
going to be a smoke show. You know, did that
(28:28):
help because you had such a condensed period of time
to prepare?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I think so, yeah, I mean we had I mean,
we've we played. We played the AFC Championship game against
the Steelers on Sunday afternoon. We get back in and
we're gonna the buses leaven to go to the ones
at remember it. Well, yeah, right, that's kind that's called
a fast turnaround. And basically we did. You know, we
(28:54):
had the parameters of our strategy for the bill and
I mapped out on that plane. So and we had, uh,
you know, here we are, We're going to do what
we think we can do best. We just we'll go
with it and let's see see what happens. And we
had a great week of practice down in New Orleans,
(29:15):
man everything, you know, for the first fifteen minutes of
the game, we threw a shout out at them.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
You mentioned the idea of being the little engine that
could versus fifteen years later and you're the evil Empire.
Is it more fun being the little engine that could?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Ah? Well, you can only be the little engine that
could once. Okay, I mean if you if you're going
to actually go out and repeat, you know, you can't
say as much as I would like to you, oh yeah, Yo,
we've won five super Bowls, but we're really just no, no, no.
Right at such stage, you know that that becomes unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
So but I think I wanted to ask a little
bit about you had mentioned on that plane ride. You know,
you and Bill sat down. That's basically where you got
the parameters. You're famous for being the guy that Bill.
You know, there's times where Bill says, Okay, I don't
need to hear from anybody. I'm just talking to Ernie
during games. You know, what is it exactly?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Is it strategy? Is it clock management?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Or you know, could be anything above. And when I
mentioned you know that this goes back to nineteen seventy.
I mean we've been having a football company.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
We've been fascinating.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
We've been having a football conversation for fifty years. I mean,
we were you know, you know, at the Giants. We
go for long runs together, you know, I mean we've
gone through and sometimes you know, because we can do
we can do a lot of things very quickly, you know,
because we have some common reference points. You know, something
(30:49):
happened in Cleveland nineteen ninety three, nobody else on the
face of planet Earth will remember about you know, Bill,
you remember what we did in Cleveland, and this really
worked in this situation. And you know, we can make
big changes in a hurry because we spent so much
time talking to you know, we know what we know
what each other is talking about.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
So we're going to put you on the tea here, okay,
because you related this story to me about a Giants
game against the Rams, and I don't know if it
was seventy nine or eight eighty one, eighty one, sorry,
and how that relates to one of the most famous
games and one of the most famous plays in Patriot history.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Sure, well, we were the nineteen eighty one Giants. I mean,
we'd come off a bad year in nineteen eighty We
were four and twelve. We had the second pick in
the draft where we took Lawrence Taylor. That was I mean,
that was a difference maker for that franchise. But we
were we were six and seven, and we kind of
knew that well, if we were going to the playoffs,
(31:47):
we were going to have to win win three in
a row. We were playing, you know, a good Rams
team who had I mean they had played the Steelers
in the Super Bowl. Very very close game, but I
think they're actually ahead of the Steelers in the fourth quarter,
and we were in a tight game of them, and
we were in a fourth and one situation out in
(32:09):
the field, and normally out in the field you don't
want to play goal line defense because they if the
other team breaks through, there's nobody left and it could
be a long run for a touchdown. Well, we're fourth
to one and build ourselves. That was his first year
as our defensive coordinator to the Giants, and really, it
doesn't matter whether they break an eighty yard touch wherever
(32:31):
the ball was on the fifty yard touchdown or a
one yard gain. If they get the first down, the
game's over. So in that situation, going goal line is
the thing to do. Get everybody close to the ball
and make sure they don't get a yard. And if
you know, like I said, really, if the one yard
of fifty yards doesn't make a difference, you're going to
lose the game. Well, fast forward, we're in the Snow Bowl,
(32:53):
the playoff with the Raiders after the one season, and
we're fifteen to go in the game. We took our
last time out the Raiders had a third and one
out in the middle of the field, and it's really
clear we're either going to make the stop, make get them,
get them the punt and we get the ball, or
if they get the first down, we have no timeouts,
the game is over. And that situation was what do
(33:15):
we want to do on defense? And that's just kind
of flashed right there. Hey, there's no question we want
to go goal line here. So having the conversation with
Bill and Romeo Cornell and I tried, I try to
stay off the I have a button on my I
had a button on my phone I could push allowed
me to talk. Well, you don't want to eight people
(33:36):
talking on the line at once, so really I kept
my voice off, and that was something I had to say,
but I said, hey, I think we want to go
goal line here. Of course Bill and Romeo, who had
both been there for that, I don't know if they
thought of that, rams came but there, Hey, that's it.
Let's let's go with it, and we put our goal
line defense in which the ram the Raiders, excuse me,
we're not really ready for. In a third and one
(33:58):
situation out in the field, Richard Seymour made a big play.
We made him punt, you know, and that and then
that led to all the fun. But you know that
was you know, when you've been through a critical situation,
what you know, I mean, it's kind of say, hey,
I mean I have thought of this play in ten years,
but this is this is probably what we need to do.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So that verbal shorthand, which comes with a fifty year relationship, right,
the fact that you can finish his sentence and vice versa, right,
that's where it becomes so valuable. It's not cutting time.
You don't need to hear from fifteen people about what's
going on and this is what.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
We need and you don't have time to you know,
I mean, this is you know, it's the ball is
going to be snapped there in about twenty five seconds.
You don't have time for, you know, a thirty minute
dissertation here. You got to you know, you got to
get some get something done right right now. It's not
going in You're in a regular season game. You know
(34:58):
you're going in halftime. Well that goes so fast, I
mean plays, you know, they got to go to the
training room. Coaches got to get together for about two
minutes decide what they're going to do you know, and
then you you know, and then you have any change
you want to make you do. I mean you've got
to be able really to communicate and do things very quickly.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Did you have a favorite team?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
You know?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Out of all that you had so many teams that
were successful, was there one of them that stuck out
to you?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Ah? Boy, hard to beat the two thousand and one team.
I mean that was just uh yeah, that was so
there was so much fun. I mean, we know, I
like Bobby Hamilton, one of my favorite Patriots players, said,
you know, hey, we shocked the world, you know, and
and and we did. I remember going uh, you know,
(35:44):
the Saturday afternoon before before the Super Bowl, we went
to a you know, a hideaway hotel up by the
New Orleans Airport and you know, going bay, you know,
you go, but we drove out past the Supernome. I
see you know, the you know, the SWAT guys who
were up on the room and you know, with all
you know, the security they had, you know, after nine
(36:05):
to eleven, I mean, they were ready for anything. I
mean we had where their practicident to Lane University and
we got the United States Air Force going overhead with
f sixties and I knew, you know, hey, can we
beat the Rams? I don't know, but we're ready to
give it our best shot.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So after the game earning, you know, the super Bowls,
you guys are in the last game, you win the
Super Bowl? Did you shock the world? Did you not
shock the world? At some point in time? I know
that at least my experience in talking to people who
do this, the train's moving. We got to get ready
for the two thousand and two season. As you guys
are sitting down after winning the Super Bowl and you
start your organizational meetings, other people in the organization have
(36:46):
had meetings stuff like that is they were a conversation
like what just happened? And we got a lot of
hole like this isn't the eighty five Bears yet we're
talking about, well, you know, we got a lot of hope,
but we won this. This is unbelievable. How do we now?
You know, we got a lot of holes to fill here,
don't you right?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I mean I mean, we yeah, we were. We did
not I'm sure we could probably go back and find
things we wish you'd done differently, but we did. We
did not compare ourselves, you know, to the uh you know,
to to you know the forty, you know, the Bill
Wash forty or anything like that. But you know, we've
(37:26):
always we always did a pretty good job. Hey, we're
going to start off next year zero and zero, and
you know, everybody's gonna be gunning for us, and we
understood what, you know, what the challenge was.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Does it make it easier to do that? I mean,
you won the last game, which is every team's goal.
Does it make it easier to do that after say
a two thousand and one year as opposed to say
a two thousand and four or twenty fourteen team. You
guys are really really good, and you know that you're
really good.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I think I think we tried to do a
good job of just hey, it's a new season. Nobody, nobody,
nobody's going to come in here and want to look
at our scrap books. They're gonna come in here want
and you know, knock our heads off. You know, we understand.
It's you know, it's the National Football League and uh,
you know, it is a new season, so we have
(38:20):
to It's i mean, every every season is a unique challenge.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Obviously, all the playoff games and Super Bowls, and and
that kind of success would stand out. But is there
a game that, maybe a regular season game, that stood
out to you that maybe we wouldn't just necessarily snap
our finger. Oh I remember that game, but one that
drew particular pride for you guys finding a way to win.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Well. One of my favorites was in you know, in
two thousand and three playing the Colts. I mean, we
got a big lead. They they yeah, yeah, yeah, you
remember that one. They they they.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Know this is the Willie McGinnis game.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Who's who's it coming back for that team? Was Mike Cloud,
wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
It probably was? Yeah, yeah, fake injury. Yeah. But by
the end, you know, it's just coming down the one
play at the end, I mean, we've been up, I hate,
we've been up by thirty eighth to Tanner Shop, and
they came back to me at thirty you know, Peyton
Manning was tearing us up. Came down the one play
(39:23):
they handed them off the edge and James William McGinnis
hit him three yards in the backfield, and you know,
we won the game. I mean, that's that's one that
always kind of.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, that was a fun game and people never really
think about it in these turns. But one play that
you make allows that playoff game to be at home
instead of on the road, because that changes the whole
complexion of the records and the tie breakers and all
that stuff. And people never look at it that way.
But just how close and what a what a great
(39:55):
rivalry it was with you guys. It's just tremendous to watch.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Right, I mean you had I mean, look, I know
when the schedule came out there was Peyton Manning and
Bill Polly and they all circle the game with the Patriots. Well,
I got news for you. With the schedule, I circled
the game. We know everybody's going to be there. We
know what it's gonna We know Dwight Freene's going to
try to beat Matt White with a spin move. In
(40:19):
the whole uh, the whole bit. We had, uh you know,
some some great games against them, so you know, some
we won, so you know some they won.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
It was a great competition, great competition. Ernie was there.
I don't know if there was the aha moment. And
I've had a conversation with Charlie Weiss where there was
something that he said that sort of he thinks clicked
for him. But do you is there a moment in
time when you realized, with Tom, this isn't your average,
This isn't just some sort of a journey man, right,
(40:50):
you know what, this guy might be pretty good. Nobody
could figure what he's you know, what he's going on
to be. But was there a time when you said,
you know what, this guy might be our right, we
might okay with this guy? Can you remember that?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I don't know, I don't think. I don't know that
it was one specific play, But I mean as we
started playing in two thousand and one, you know, I mean,
Tom just got got better every week. You know, the
team responded well, he was you know, he was doing well.
So I think I think it was more of a
process rather than you know, one play.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay, but based on that process and maybe the body
of work was that, you know, certainly the team was
comfortable trading Bled so the following in the offseason and
stuff like that, and he said, you know what, I
think we're going to be all right with this guy
as our quarterback going forward. That fair you saw enough
and it wasn't a huge sample size, right.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Right, Well, I mean, being being realistic about it, we
knew after the two thousand and one season, the town
was going to be our quarterback. We weren't going to
have Drew here as our backup. Okay, I mean that
just wasn't I mean that that that realist Stickley was
not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Ernie just encapsulated about six months of talk radio right
right in the thirty second clip. I mean, if there
was a no brainer, I know what people look at
it like, oh what what gots it? Tom was the quarterback,
you just won the Super Bowl. He had to be
the quarterback in O two, and therefore you can't have
one hundred million dollar backup looming over his shoulder. And
that's why, like for me, the one game for me
(42:25):
for Tom and one because I was a big Drew guy,
truth be told, I loved the guy and I thought
he was a pretty good quarterback, obviously not anywhere near
what Tom has been. But the New Orleans game in
you know, in Foxborough in the rain was around the
time that Drew had come back. It may have been
the week after the Rams game. Drew was getting some
(42:46):
starting to get some reps in practice, and there was
some you know, bickering about how much he was getting
ready and you know, this was the time where a
kid might be looking over his shoulder, and he responded
with a four touchdown game. He played as well in
that game. I think he played in any of him.
It wasn't one of those We'll be handed off to
Antoine Smith thirty seven times and they won the game
because they won thirteen to ten. Tom lit it up,
(43:08):
and that to me, I was like, whoa, this kid's
better than I thought.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
No question. That was a big, big offensive.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Day for And that was the day that I said,
that was the day that I said that Tru's got
to go. As much as I loved Thru, I did, right,
I mean, it was a no brainer.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Right, I mean it was just not there was no
way that, like say, there's no way that trade wasn't
gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Right, and we broken on Patriots dot.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Ernie. You saw him as part of something with the Giants.
He goes to Cleveland, he builds something in Cleveland. But
this idea of building a culture and a culture that's
now well into its twenty something year and something like that,
what's the secret or is there a secret in getting
everybody on the same page and checking your ego at
the door and doing what's best for the team. Is
(44:00):
that the secret to try to longevity.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
That it's it's it's just take it one day at
a time, get better every day.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
But that's so easy to say.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
It's so hard to do. It's so hard to do.
But you just, you know, we keep hammering it and
you get, you know, you get you get some players
who have success with it, and then they start to
buy in so that when a new guy comes in,
the veteran player can come and go put his arm
around the new guys. Hey, look, buddy, this is the
way it works around here. And some people who come
in from outside, uh can take it. And some, you know, some,
(44:37):
to be honest with you, looks, I didn't know he
really worked this hard. I'm not sure this is uh,
this is free. I mean it's I always say if
you're if you're just into winning football games, then New
England Place is the place to be. If you've got
other things on your on your agenda, it's probably you're
probably not gonna like it.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Very much, right And and I don't know if this
is fear or not bring up the name or something
like that, but Patriots fans were enamored by a guy
in the great cult rivalry, Jonas Gray two hundred yards,
you know, and look at look at this guy and
everything like that, and they just found somebody else the
next week or the week after that. It's this is
(45:16):
what it takes to sustain the program. And you either
jump on board or you don't jump on board. I
don't know how great an example that is. I just
think of somebody who flashed, you know, But the program
isn't about somebody who flashes. It's about the team.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
It's about the team and showing up every day. And
football football is a messy game. This is not figure skating.
There are no style points. Things don't always work right.
But it's just showing up every day, trying to learn
from your mistakes, get better every day, help the guy
next to you. I mean, it's about what it takes
(45:53):
to be really successful in a lot of businesses.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
Thinking of the game itself, though we talked a little
bit earlier about you know, the seventies and now and
even the way the game has changed even more recently
ten years ago. What are your thoughts on on the
way the game has played today, and do you like it?
Nor is it more skill based, you know, maybe some
speed or did you kind of like the physicality?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Well, you know, one thing of course we got you know,
we played with you know, Tom Brady and every oh
it's Tom Brady throwing the ball. But we were always
a very physical running team. Okay, even though we were
spread out and we could we could throw the ball,
we also could hand the ball off and pound it.
(46:39):
So I mean, I don't think I think you know,
to be able to win today's football, I mean, there
are multi more wide receivers on the field, so it's
nickel defense on the field that's more spread out. But
there are times when you've got to be able to
come off the ball and run it. I mean, if
you're if you really want to be good, I mean,
(47:00):
and it's you, yeah, you you can go. You you
can have a ten win season just you know, throwing
the ball. But if you really, if you really want to,
you know, end up being you know, playing being one
of the final four. It's really hard to do without
being able to be physical.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And does that physicality start on the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
It's absolutely if you have a soft offensive line, you're
not going anywhere because soft offensive line is not gonna
be a real good pass protecting offensive.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Line, right, So I saved my toughest one for last.
So you spanned a lot of eras of Patriots, Football,
pat Patriot or Elvis.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Pat Patriot every time.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Sorry, no, you're not alone. We get a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
I mean because I go back Hey, I mean I do,
I go back to I never went to a game
of Brave Field. I wasn't Friday Nights of f Park.
I mean I thought that was you know, I mean,
that was pat Patriot. That that said, that's that's Boston,
that's New England. That's for me.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Every time I hear my first game, and I'm going
to give Earning a chance to show up because he
has no idea what the game is going to be.
At seventy six, it was a Monday night game against
the Jets. First game.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and of course we started putting
men in motion. They had no clue, so it was
the game was a massacre. And what I fortunately remember
was at Shaeffer Stadium because it was right near our offices.
The the officers of the law had some.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Had show I learned some stuff that night. Doesn't need
your old honey.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, yeah, So what the cops say. All they could
do was hand cuff them to the lead fast and well,
let me, I'll show you. I'll show you to take
his heads off me. And it was really right by
the door that we all came on.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
It was an amazing sight. My father, grandfather and uncle
took me and they literally made a triangle around me
and we're walking out and they're like, just keep going
this way, not don't worry about that over there straight ahead.
They didn't want me to see any of this. There
was literally hundreds of people like handcuffs, chain link fence.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Did Grogan score on a bootleg in that game?
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Like forty yards long long touchdown, right right?
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Forty one to seven?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Ernie. As a kid, as you said,
you went to the Dexter School, you grew up around here.
You've experienced the NFL in a couple of different places.
But to be able to be with your hometown team
and and have the success that you had, you know, Bill, always,
as you've talked about, it's the next practice, it's the
next game. But now that you are retired, can you
(49:49):
look back at it and go, holy smokes, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Absolutely sure, I mean I.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
And is it fun for you to do that? Do
you take a sort of pride.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Out of it?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
I mean, I mean I've got every you know, every
every year, you know, you win the Super Bowl, they
do a special issue of Sports Illustrated. Man, I've got
all the issues that we won there. I've got them
all signed, you know, by every by everybody who's on there.
I mean, I've got them all up, you know, all
my well, sure, I mean, I know, I know. Even
though when you're in it, it's hey, let's get ready
(50:22):
for the next practice. Let's run the ball off tackle better?
Sure you shit back there? You know, Hey we had
you know, one of the great maybe the the greatest
run in the history of the national football That's a
big deal.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
It is a big deal and and easy for us
to say on the outside, but you never say never.
But that kind of level of success and sustainability, you
don't replicate that. You've seen too much of it. There
are too many, too too many good teams, too many
smart people, too many good players. Right, it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
To really look. Winning at once is really hard. We're
doing it repeatedly. Is you know it's a it's a
phenomenal accomplishment. But again, the biggest thing was when you're
doing it, you're just thinking about, hey, the next play,
next game. Let's just you know, it's one game. And
(51:11):
you know, I know people say, oh, it's coach Stock
one game at a time, but it's the key to
success in getting people to believe it is the key
is the key to success.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
But Paul asked you a question about one and is
this is this also part of the key Ernie where
he said did you have any expectations in one? And
you answered, I wanted to see progress? Is that kind
of the key for your team, whether you're twelve and
four or four and twelve? Can we just make progress?
Speaker 2 (51:39):
Right? Can we get Can we when we're going out
to practice and training camp? We're a better football team
when we come off the field than when we went
on it. Now, look, I understand if you're if you're
going into if you're going in coaching this year at
the Jacksonville Jaguars, you have you are truly just hoping
to get better because you know you have to get
(52:03):
a little bit better. You know you have a long
way to go. Whereas there were you know some of
our teams would pay for you. I knew, Hey, realistically
we should be able to compete with everybody in the league.
But you're still It's still you go every day trying
to get better. That's why you know, I see the
big picture you got right behind you. You know number
twelve throwing the ball. That's why he you know, he
(52:24):
would jump on a receiver for cutting his road off
at nine yards instead of twelve yards. Because it's doing
it's all the little things. It's all the details. Every
day you have to do it and get it right
because when you get down to those critical situations in
the championship game where you know you got the whole
season's riding now one play, it's the ability to execute
(52:47):
the fundamentals just right that makes the difference.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
So on that note, and you mentioned twelve throwing the ball.
Twelve goes down in the first quarter in two thousand
and eight, Okay, you're a team that had were a
series away from going nineteen and oh you've got a
really good team still coming back. That team can go
down the toilet pretty quickly, even though you still had
a pretty good group of guys around you. I'm not saying,
(53:10):
you guys are popping champagne after eleven and five and
that windy game in Buffalo to end the season, But
is there a sense of pride, like, you know what,
we didn't go down the toilet. We did kind of
keep our head above water, and we salvage something with
what we were doing, and maybe we did improve by
the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
You know. I that's I expect us to play that way. Okay,
it's not. I mean, it's what you know, It's it's
what we do. I mean, going out doing our best
every day, trying to be competitive. I mean that's uh,
you know, that's nothing to me, nothing special about that,
because it's it's the way we approached every every year,
(53:51):
every game, every practice, you know, every play.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
So maybe does that validate it? Yeah, that's why we
do this. That's why we do this.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, yeah, right, I mean we're going you know, you
you know, in the National Football League, you're gonna go
out on Sunday, You're gonna have millions of people watching. Uh.
I mean, that's that's always in the back of your mind.
And we we're gonna have a team playing against us
that's gonna be doing everything they can to beat us.
I mean that's just you know, the competitive part of
(54:20):
the game.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
His name is Ernie Adams. Ernie tremendous stuff as usual.
Really appreciate you taking the time to join us and
uh continued enjoyment in your non football days as.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
You enjoy retirement.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
Thanks for coming down.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Vent a pleasure.
I appreciate it. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe
on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
Like the show, please rate and review us.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Listener comments and ratings help keep us high in the
podcast rankings so new listeners can find us. Be sure
to check Patriots dot com for more news and more podcasts.
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