Pats from the Past: Episode 34, Ernie Adams

Former Patriots research director Ernie Adams is our guest, and highlights a nearly half a century in the National Football League. Adams discusses how his passion for football began, what made the mid 1970’s Patriots so great, his favorite Patriot team and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time now for another episode of Pats from the
Past podcast. I'm Nat Smith alongside with Paul Pirillo when
we're pleased today to be joined by Ernie Adams, who
spends many years here in the Patriots Organization. Ernie, how
are you doing today? And thanks for joining us. I'm
great and it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
It's a good guest for Matt. I mean, yeah, it
was stepping up our client. Tell a little bit here, Matt.

(00:29):
I think most Patriot fans please tell me if you disagree.
Probably all know that Ernie's now retired, which is at
once a very sad day for the Patriots Organization because
of all the success he's helped be a part of,
but probably a great day for Ernie and his family.
How do you enjoy retirement? Every day is great. I'm

(00:50):
in total control of my time and that's uh, you know,
it's sixty nine years old. That's a great place to be.
Did you ever was it like it? Amays me some people.
I'm going to work until you know whenever? Was retirement
something that you did you think about that as you
were working? Like you know what? One day I think
I would like to slow down and see some things

(01:11):
that I never or do some things I never had
a chance to do well. Probably over the last couple
of years, I knew, I knew it was going to come.
Dying at the office was never part of the plan.
So it's it felt like the right time for Patriots
fans who don't know Ernie's would you would you classify
yourself as a voracious reader? That's probably a fair assessment. Yes,

(01:33):
what are you reading now that you would recommend to
Patriot fans that you enjoy that you're enjoying. Um, let me,
oh boy, that's uh for Patriots fans that they would
really enjoy. Uh. Reade a great book about Maynard Keynes. Uh.

(01:55):
Author's last name is a tool. I think I'm to
get the title Time of Peace. Um. Great great book
about how economics or a social phenomenon, not a hard science.
Um that that might be at the top of my
timely topic, very timely cauld I love it. Yeah, yeah,

(02:20):
I wanted to ask you, you know, when Matt was
talking about the retirement stuff, just what was what was
the season like for you last year? Sort of you know,
what did you do on a typical NFL Sunday. Were
you watching intently or are you doing apple picking? You
know I watched I certainly watched Patriots games. Um. And
if there were teams that were interesting to me, uh,

(02:42):
you know that I that I would watch them. I
did not sit there glued watching you know every uh
uh every game that came on. Well, players will say
that when they see the games or it gets to
be training camp, those that have retired, that there's an
itch that comes back. Did you ever ever an inch
or was there was had that it been scratched? Promise

(03:03):
I would say, I would say the it's the it's
had been scratched. I mean, it's game days. The is
the fun time. Uh, you know, driving home on Tuesday nights,
worry about hitting a deer out on ninety five. That's
don't don't get Matt going on that. He's that's one
of his hat irrational fears. Right there are deer out there,

(03:26):
I know, yeah, right right. So this is a fascinating
career that you've had, Ernie. Um, as a younger person,
what sparked was it? Can you think of one thing
where that ignition sort of happened? You said, Man, I'm
really interested in this is the game of football. Sure
it was when I was an eighth eighth grade or

(03:46):
at Dexter School in Brookline. Uh it was a football
was mandatory intramural, so there was no uh, no choice.
I want to play football, I don't. If you're at
Dexter School, you're gonna play football. And I was the
athletic director there. George Downpat was just a wonderful human being,
and I had also why don't we do this? Why
don't we do that? And he finally said, look, you're

(04:06):
so smart, you coach your team. We'll see how you do.
And that's where it started. Did you envision at that
point in time? It was that this is this is
a real love. Oh I knew, hey, this is this
is a lot of fun. And it grew from there. Okay,
so you were really into it, and then you know,
you do your your high school and you meet another
guy who's really into it. How long did it take

(04:28):
you to realize? Bill Belichick was pretty similar in his thoughts, Um,
I'm probably about a minute. Uh so, of course we have.
We met the fall of nineteen seventy. We were both
seniors at Phillips Academy in Andover. We UH played on
an undefeated football team and we had a great time together.

(04:49):
And it was It's basically started a fifty plus year
conversation about football. Was it mapped out? Did you guys
sort of say this is this is where we want
to go, and this is how we might think to
get there. We both knew we were we really enjoyed football.
I can't say that we're eighteen. We had, you know,
every step of the way mapped out, but things went

(05:12):
from went from there. So and so how did that
happen maybe or increase the likelihood or maybe increased your
love of the game when you were at Northwestern? Well,
I was um, of course it was Bill's Bill's dad,
Steve made an introduction to me at Northwestern and that

(05:32):
worked great. And then when I when I finished at Northwestern,
I came June of nineteen seventy five, I had an
interview with Chuck Fairbanks about joining his staff. And what
really worked for me was that Chuck had been UH
coach at the University of Oklahoma. He was used to
having graduate assistants and as young coaches who did all

(05:54):
the a lot of the grunt work. UH, so he
was it was kind of no risk for Chuck. It
was it was a tryout basis. He said, look, if
this goes well, great, If not, I'll let you go.
So but I came in and interviewed with Chuck on
a Monday, and I had a conversation probably a day

(06:16):
or two after with Bill Bill Belichick when he just
graduated from Wesley and told him what I was doing,
and he said, you know, that sounds like a pretty
good place to be in the NFL instead of going
to college. So he went in shortly thereafter and talked
to Ted Marshall Brod at the Colts, and that's where
he started at the Colts. I think people like Paul

(06:37):
and myself look at what the NFL is today. It's
just mega monster and everything like that. But can you
talk about like the job interview in nineteen seventy five
for the New England Patriots in the NFL. Yeah, we
think of the NFL's this big deal. And I'm not
saying it wasn't a big deal in nineteen seventy five.
That's still the highest league. But what was that like
like in nineteen seventy five, Ernie, like getting your introduction

(07:00):
to the NFL. Well, Man, I check Fairbanks was just
a wonderful person to work with, and that was that
that was a big deal. Of course, the league wash
was much smaller. If in fact, if you remember UH
in nineteen seventy five, the Patriots was still a publicly
traded company. You could go to the Boston Stock Exchange

(07:21):
and buy a sheriff the New England Patriots. Well, one
of the uh the results of that was as a
publicly traded company, the Patriots had to publish every year
their complete financial statements, which I have a copy of
their last annual report and I gave I gave a
copy that Robert Craft. I said, now, don't laugh when

(07:44):
you look at I mean, it was, you know it was.
It was the National Football League, but it was so
much it was it was smaller than it was, and
that it was not obviously right. And you know, Matt
and I are you know, a similar age and we
have sort of affection. Would you say for those teams
seventy six, seventy seven, you know that era of Patriots

(08:05):
football was when we were kids and we were really
really getting into it. And I'm just curious your thoughts
on just how good you know you mentioned Chuck Fairbanks,
the talent that he brought here. How good some of
those teams were that maybe kind of forgotten because of
all the success you would Bill have had. Well, of course,
I was with the Patriots them for four years from

(08:25):
nineteen seventy five through seventy eight. The nineteen seventy five,
the year before I got here, in seventy four of
the Patriots, if you remember, had started six and one
and ended one and ended one and six, soors of
seven and seven overall record. And then in seventy five
we had our team went on strike the day before

(08:47):
the last preseason game with the Jets. So we were,
may seem mottle strange that we were playing the Jets
in the last preseason game playing in the was that
game was going to be a play in the Yale Bowl.
So we had a usual Saturday morning workout and we
had lunch in the old Stadium club over the UH

(09:09):
Schaeffer Stadium. The players, after lunch decided to go to
go out on strike and they didn't come back till
I think Wednesday of the following week or the open
over the oils. But that that really cast a pall
over the UH over the whole season, and then of course,

(09:30):
uh uh you know, Jim Plunkett hurt his shoulder and
so we went, Yeah, that gave Steve Grogan a chance
to play with the rookie. So the first year, you know,
three to eleven, that was a real disappointment. But the
next year coming back, of course, we went eleven and
three in the regular season. He probably remember the Oakland
Raiders won the Super Bowl that yeah, well in the

(09:51):
they were thirteen and one in the regular season. That
one lost was when we beat them. I think it
was like forty eight to fourteen. I was at that game.
I remember, I'm gonna go seventeen. It was a blow up.
It was. It was a blow up, complete blow up. Uh.
And then of course we uh we played them in
the infamous uh divisional playoff game where we had him

(10:15):
third and you know, we got we had a lead,
had him third and eighteen. They throw an incomplete passion.
Ray Hamilton gets called for roughing the pastor let's say,
probably a bit of a marginal call. Um. You know,
when they went on to um, you know, to beat
us right at the Nimals, Stable kept the ball winning
for the winning touch shop. But that was. My point

(10:37):
is that in seventy six, I mean we were we
were a championship caliber team, even though you know, we
didn't win. Most seasons still end up being you know,
two or three teams playing at the towards the end
of the season that really have a legitimate chance to win,
and we were one of them. A lot of players
and a lot of coaches. It's not necessarily the win

(11:01):
that they enjoy reminiscing about. It's those losses that they
can't get over. And easy for me to say this,
but I wonder does that loss bug you because you
had beat in Pittsburgh already in the regular season that
year in Pittsburgh, by the way, in no disrespect to Minnesota,
but Minnesota wasn't in the same class that one. You know,

(11:21):
I think you can make a really legitimate argument that
that call doesn't get made. You beat the Steelers and
you beat the NFC representative I was, you know, I'm
all precissed. I think that would have happened. I mean,
the uh, the two best teams in the league, that
the Patriots and the Raiders, and they you know, they
came out on the long end of the score. But um,

(11:43):
I mean, we were you hate seeing a game or
really come down to um, you know, to a call,
but it did. You know, how do you you look
back at those teams, it's so different, you know, the
way you guys played with all of the running and
the record you guys ended up setting in seventy eight
for the all time rushing UH team stat. And then

(12:04):
you look at the way the game is played. You
know now you know, just can you well right, it's
become much more of a passing league. But I will
point out you've got a really good team to Baltimore Ravens,
who feature you know, feature the running game. Uh. And
they're a little bit similar to what we were because
we had UM I mean, I think in seventy six

(12:27):
Steve Grogan probably had close to five hundred yards rushing.
So it wasn't just the running backs who were who
were making a lot of yards, it was the quarterback
as well. UM. And we were, um, you know, we
were committed. We were committed to being a running football team.
Although we go when we had um, you know, players

(12:48):
like Daryl Stingley, Rush Francis Uh, you know, and Steve
a quarterback when we you know, when we needed to
throw the ball we could. I mean you mentioned beating
the being the steels and three rivers. I mean we
were down, we were down twenty to nine. We hit
fourth and one to hit Russ Francis on a fifty

(13:10):
five yard pass. Then we hit Daryl Stingley on a big,
a big play. So I mean we had you know,
we had uh players who were very good passing the ball,
but it was we were definitely a running team first.
Uh you probably my guess is this is maybe it's wrong,
and that I should say it this way. Probably not
a big fan of nicknames per se, but I'm sure

(13:32):
you were aware in the day Cosell and calling Francis
all world. Patriot fans today have no idea who Russ
Francis is. They can't remember him anything like that. My
words here, I'd like to say that I think it
was Gronk before Gronk. Is that is that a fair
statement to make. I mean the big difference, the biggest
difference between Russ Francis and Rob Gronkowski is that Rob

(13:55):
played on a passing team with a Hall of Fame quarterback.
I mean, Russ was, you know, we were more of
a running team. He was a like Rob was a
devastating blocker on the edge, Rush head you know, great
athletic ability, great hands, and he when you talk what
do you want for a tight end, where do you
think of Rush Francis, Rob Gronkowsky. I have no problem
putting them in the same that's heady category right in

(14:19):
the big place. Like you know, there was a couple
of years, uh, you know, before all of these modern
guys started being eligible for the Hall of Fame. When
we're in our meetings, I've nominated Russ Francis a couple
of times. I mean, averaging like sixteen yards of catch, right,
I mean, and I'm just an insane total for a
tight end, right, especially in that era, as Ernie said,
with such a running team, really could I mean, I

(14:41):
know Howard Cosello always said it. He has his little
pithy little phrases. But there's my old world tight end.
That's what he was. He could do it all, no question. Uh.
I mean we were you know are probably our featured
play was running the ball off tackle. I mean we
had Rush Francis doubling down a double team, Sam Cunningham
kicking out in John Handle leading and we're good backs,

(15:05):
but they just had you know, realistic of the back.
Just head, get the ball, follow John right, um Ernie,
because you know you've your career has spanded so much
time and the game has chased so much. I'm interested
in one. You mean half a century and there's a
long time. Um. When you're sitting in meetings and then

(15:25):
that seventies team and you guys are sitting down, can
you recall a player, a couple of players. Will you
guys sit around as you're trying to game plan and go,
this guy's a game wrecker. I don't know how we're
going to be able to kend to tend with him.
Who's the guy that caused coaching year? Coaching staff fits
back in that day? Oh boy, wait ahead, you could

(15:49):
say our last year and seventy eight playing in the
Houston Oilers Earl Campbell now that he was as a
game wrecker. I mean my first year in nineteen seventy
five going out to play the Bengals at Isaac Curtis
and wide receiver with Kenny Anderson throwing him the ball.
I mean we geared a lot of things to stopping

(16:11):
to stopping him. You play the Raiders, I mean you
had now Dave Casper was another tight end who was
a real problem to play against. Um, I mean those
are there were uh you know we played the Steelers
you mentioned we beat we beat him in seventy six.
I mean they had stan Lynn Swan and John Stalworth

(16:32):
at wide receiver, and of course the defense. I mean
you got Jack hamm Joe Green, uh, Jack Lambert, Andy
Russell was the third linebacker who would be he would
be a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate with uh, you
know Blunt and Michael Wagner in the secondary. I mean
that was that was a great you know, a great

(16:52):
team to play against. And we people talk we use
the word dynasty a lot, you know, and and how
much it is And here's the Steelers no free agency
back in the day, you know, and the fact that
they that team could run out. You're just going through
some of the names. I don't know that younger Patriot
fans can appreciate how good that team was and how

(17:12):
good that organization was. It that at that time, right Yeah, Well,
I mean you're talking about winning, uh you know, winning
winning four Super Bowls and six years I mean it
was still I mean to win the championship of the
National Football League. You got to beat everybody else in
the league. I mean that part of it hasn't you know,
hasn't changed. And they were, um here and even the

(17:38):
team we beat in seventy six, who did you know,
did not go on the Super Bowl? I mean that's
why they're they mean, they had some injuries, but I
mean the Steeler defense that year, I mean it was
just uh, I mean, that's that's where they got. That
was the year I think they came up with the
name of the steel Curtain and that's when about what
it was. Should you have did the did Chuck leaving

(18:00):
in seventy eight? That did that derail the seventy eight
team at the end that well it didn't. It certainly
didn't help. Um. Yeah, when you have you a championship team,
when you get on a run, you got everybody totally focused,
is zeroed in every day nothing, You're not letting anything

(18:22):
else distract you. And then you get to the end
of the season, Oh the head coach is leaving. Well
that kind of everybody whoa women, what's what's going on here?
I mean that's uh, um, that's absolutely never a good thing.
And of course, our last the last regular season game
when it all came out, was the Monday night down

(18:43):
in the Orange Bowl, and we had the scene where
um Chuck told the team in the afternoon he was
going to the University of Colorado. Uh. Billy Sullivan came
in into the locker room and he was going to
suspend Huck. What Chuck could talk to is Atorney, who said,
you do not resign, make them fire you. So you

(19:03):
had the back and forth. Billy said, you're suspended, the
head coach going, does that mean I'm fired? Though, you're
suspended in the locker room before the and then, of
course is what we dealt with in our childhood right
And then of course the unfortunate pictures. You got Chuck
walking walking on the Orange bowlt in the middle of

(19:24):
the second quarter, carrying carrying his bag. And then he
came back for the for the playoff game. And of
course Steve Grogan got hurt in the playoff game. So
I mean that, I mean that was that our seventy
eight team in the middle of the season. We could
play with anybody, but you know that was probably too
much for for anybody over come. Plus we ended up

(19:45):
playing the oilers with her old Campbell and ye good
parlor game. Who's a better team, Ernie the seventy eighteen
of the seventy sixteen. You know, I'm gonna say probably
the seventy eight team because we had on seventy eight
instead of having a Steve Grogan being a rookie quarterback,
he was the third year we had Stanley Morgan and

(20:07):
Harold Jackson at receiver, which we were all more explosive
on offense in seventy eight. Of course, the uh the
seventy six team was the one that can't you know,
in the ENDUA was closest to winning a championship. Yeah, um,
I would agree, though seventy eight I think they had

(20:27):
more TEMs, probably with the ownership, and it was more
animosity at that time because those guys have been around
a few years and were kind of tired of the
way they would try to know. It seemed like someone
was holding out every training camp. It was tough as
a ten year old kid. It was tough to read
about the team at that time because of all those
off field things, right, Yeah, I mean it's uh um,

(20:49):
I mean, I I give tremendous credit to Billy Sullivan
for keeping professional starting professional football in Boston, you know,
getting a team built. But it was I mean, the
organization was realistically being run on a shoe string. And
everybody that was involved at the time says it exactly

(21:09):
the way he already just did, right. You know, it
was a tremendous passion that Billy Sullivan had, and it
was it was a lot like Robert he was a
fan first, like he wanted football to succeed here. He
just didn't have the resources to do it the right way, right,
And so then you go Ernie and you get to
a couple of places that maybe do do it the
right way. You know, you see how it's run in

(21:30):
New York, and you see how it's running Cleveland, and
those are two premier NFL franchise. Well, when we got
to the when we got to the to the Giants
in nineteen seventy nine, and of course Ray Perkins was
became the head coach, who had been the receiver coach
here on Czech Fairbanks's staff from seventy five through seventy seven.

(21:51):
But they were coming off the Herman Edwards recovery of
the Joe Bizarchick fumble. You know, they'd had the airplane
fly over Giants stadium fifteen years a lousy football. We've
had enough, And I said, when we got to the Giants,
if you remember the old television show F Troope, this
was like taking over F Troupe. I mean it was

(22:14):
a we had a few good young defensive players, but
the organization was was mired back in the nineteen forties someplace.
And of course he talked about ownership. I mean he
had Wellington Marror and Tim Tim Marray that was uncle
and nephew who it was a fifty fifty split, and

(22:36):
the tour they just lived in different worlds basically. So
the commissioner, Pete Roselle, basically he went out and found
George Young, who was at the Miami Dolphins, and he
told the marriage, look you're gonna hire George Young as
the general manager and just signed the team over to him,
which is which is what happened. But that way, But

(22:59):
you say, yeah, the Giants, I mean, it's in New York.
It's a classy operation. But going in there in the
spring of nineteen seventy and high, that's good to know.
We had a long way to go. Okay. So then
so let's fast forward a little bit. Was the organization
the team wasn't very good when Bill called you in
two thousand and said, I'm going to New England. Let's

(23:21):
go to New England. It wasn't the f troop at
that point in time. But your financials from a salary
cap were a mess, right Like, the football team wasn't
in great shape at that point, right, No, it was
we had I mean, we had some work to do
in that. That first season was certainly frustrating. I mean
it took it took basically a whole year to get

(23:45):
everybody on the same page. And then of course, going
into two thousand and one, we did a great job
with you know, going signs for free you know, signs
for free agents, you know't like Mike rabel. I brought
some guys in, you know who Bill had known at
the Jets, like Fifer, and just had a I mean
that that made a huge difference. And then of course

(24:07):
that mean everybody knows in the second game, uh, Drew
got hurt and Tom came in playing quarterback, and that uh,
I mean everything, uh, I mean everything geled. But it
was I mean that that old one team, I mean
we got playing really well at the end, and obviously
we won the championship. I mean we weren't really a

(24:28):
juggernaut at that stage. I mean, I tell people, I
mean in the two thousand and one team, we were
just a little engine that could. I mean, this is
like fifteen years before we became the Evil Empire. I
mean we were. I mean, we were just some guys
going out there. And the the one I remember, uh

(24:50):
was we went out and we played played the Colts
in Indianapolis, and that was going to where David Patton
had the through for a touchdown, ran for touchdown and
cant of tuchsown well when he threw the touchstowf as
the announcers commentaries, who are these guys? And that that's
where we were two thousand and one. You know who
who who? Who? I mean, I'm John Madden broadcasting the

(25:13):
Super Bowl. I thought, oh, this poor Patriots having to
go up against the Rams. I mean, that was I mean,
and that's part of what made that a lot of fun.
Can you think back to your mindset heading into the
season in two thousand and one. Obviously no one could
have envisioned going down and tom but was there optimism

(25:34):
like that you would you know, like as Matt said,
you sort of got the house in order a little.
You got all those free agents in How good did
you think you might be able to I just wanted
to see us make some progress. That was really you know,
you don't come up. We went to a state string
of games in two in the first year two thousand
where we got ahead of teams and lost at the end. Yeah,

(25:57):
so you're losing games, but at least, as it was,
it was a much more competively than people. Remember, at
least we were getting ahead of people. So I mean
I was I was hoping we would we would make progress.
I mean, we had a lot of things come together.
But remember after um, after week eleven, we were six
and five UM and of course the uh the last

(26:20):
game we lost was again there was the sun, which
in reality was that that had a huge part in
beating the Rams in the Super Bowl because we we'd
gone up against them, we had, we had a bit
of a feel for them, and we knew we were
going to have to make some changes when we when

(26:40):
we got to play them in the Super Bowl, whereas
the Rams kind of came in and went with the
same uh uh to elige extent, the same plan they
had the first game. Um, but I truthfully, had we
not played them, it would have been harder to beat
them in the super Bowl. That's fascinating. So is the

(27:01):
is the game in the regular season where you and
Bill kind of looked at Fuck and said, this is
the guy. Well this is what everything revolved right. Well,
there were some other you know, some other things, you know,
I mean just the whole way we played the game
on the particularly on defense. Um, you know, we were
trying to do some zone blitzes, which we weren't very

(27:22):
successful with. So we really you say, hey, we are
not gonna you know, we're we've played him once, We've
got a little better feel for him. We're not going
to just go repeat what we did. Uh. And they
were truthfully. I know that the Rams absolutely knew they

(27:42):
were playing the Pittsburgh Steelers. And there's only one week
so you know, to get ready for that game. So, um,
there was the whole A lot of the things in
the preparation were advantageous, and believe me, we needed every
advantage we could get to beat that team. I mean

(28:02):
that that was a real good Ram team on both sides.
Of the ball that one week because you know, that
hadn't happened in years, you know, and that was a
big deal because of nine to eleven. Asking if because
you're saying that the fact that you played him in
the regular season, it's not a completely different opponent. You

(28:23):
know what you did wrong? Well, we can't do this
again or it's going to be a smoke show. You know.
Did that help because you had such a condensed period
of time to prepare? I think so? Yeah, I mean
we had Um, I mean, we we played we played
the AFC championship game against the Steelers on Sunday afternoon.
We get back in and we're gonna the buses leaving

(28:46):
to go down the ones at eight o'clock. Remember it. Well, yeah, right,
that's that's called a fast turnaround. And basically we did.
You know, we had the parameters of our strategy for
the ram Bill and I mapped out on that plane.
So and we had, uh, you know, here we are,
We're gonna do what we think we can do best.

(29:07):
We just we'll go with it and let's see see
see what happens. And we had a great week of
practice down in New Orleans. Um, and everything, Uh, you know,
for the first fifteen minutes of the game, we throw
a shout out at them. You mentioned the idea of
being the little engine that could versus fifteen years later
and you're the evil empire. Is it more fun being

(29:30):
the little engine that could? Ah, Well, you can only
be the little engine that could once. Okay. I mean
if you're if you're going to actually go out and repeat,
you can't say as much as I would like to. Yeah, yeah,
you know, we've born five super Bowls, but but we're
really just no, no, no. Right at such stage, you

(29:51):
know that that becomes unbelievable. So, but I think I
wanted to ask a little bit about you had mentioned
on that plane ride. You know, you and Bill sat down.
That's basically what you got the parameters. You're famous for
being the guy that Bill. You know, there's times when
Bill says, Okay, I don't need to hear from anybody.
I'm just talking to Ernie during games. You know, what

(30:13):
is it exactly? Is it? Is it strategy? Is it
clock management? Could could you know? Could be any of
the above? And when I mentioned, uh, you know that
this goes back to nineteen seventy. I mean, we've been
having a football We've been we've been having a football
conversation for fifty years. I mean we would you go,
you know, at the Giants. We go for long runs together,

(30:35):
you know, I mean we've gone through uh uh and
sometimes you know, because we can do we can do
a lot of things very quickly, you know, because we
have some common reference points. Uh. You know, something that
happened in Cleveland nineteen ninety three, nobody else on the
face of planet Earth will remember about. You know, Bill,
you remember what we did in Cleveland, and this really

(30:58):
worked in this situation. And you know, we we we
can make big changes in a hurry because we've spent
so much time talking. You know, we we know what,
we know what each other's talking about. So we're gonna
put you on the tea here, okay, because you relayed
this story to me about a Giants game against the
Rams and I don't know if it was seventy nine

(31:20):
or eighty one, sorry, and how that relates to one
of the most famous games and one of the most
famous plays in Patriot history. Sure well, we were the
nineteen eighty one Giants. I mean, we'd come off a
bad year in nineteen eighty. We were four and twelve.
We had the second pick in the draft where we
took Lawrence Taylor. Uh that was I mean, that was

(31:40):
a difference maker for that franchise. But we were we
were six and seven, and we kind of knew that, well,
if we were going to the playoffs, we were going
to have to win win three in a row. We
were playing, you know, a good Rams team who had
um I mean, they had played the Steelers in the
Super Bowl, very great close game, but I think they're

(32:01):
actually ahead of the Steelers in the fourth quarter, and
we were in a tight game with them, and we
were in a fourth and one situation out in the field,
and normally out in the field you don't want to
play goal line defense because if they if the other
team breaks breaks through, there's nobody left and it could
be a long run for a touchdown. Well, we're fourth

(32:22):
and one and Build Parcels. That was his first year
as our defensive coordinator the Giants, And really it doesn't
matter whether they break an eighty yard wherever the ball
was on the fifty yard touchdown or a one yard game.
If they get the first down, the game's over. So
in that situation, going goal line is the thing to do.
Get everybody close to the ball and make sure they
don't get a yard. And if you know, like it's

(32:45):
really if the one yard of fifty yards doesn't make
a difference, you're going to lose the game. Well, fast forward,
we're in the Snow Bowl, the playoff with the Raiders
after the one season, and we're two fifty two fifteen
to go in the game. We took our last time out.
The Raiders had a third and one out in the
middle of the field, and it's really clear we're either

(33:06):
going to make the stop them, get them upun and
we get the ball, or if they get the first down,
we have no time outs, the game is over. And
that situation was what do we want to do on defense?
And that's just kind of flashed right there. Hey, there's
no question we want to go goal line here. So
having the conversation with Bill and Romeo Carneal and I try,

(33:27):
I try to stay off the I have a button
on my I had a button on my phone I
could push allowed me to talk, but you don't want
to eat people talking on the line at once, So
really I kept my voice off and I was something
I had to say, but I said, hey, I think
we want to go goal line here. Of course Bill
and Romeo, who had both been there for that, I
don't know if they thought of that, Rams came but
say hey, that's it. Let's let's go with it, and

(33:50):
we put our goal line defense in which the ram
the Raiders excuse me, we're not really ready for it.
In a third and one situation out in the field,
Richard Seymour made a big play. We met him punt,
you know, and that and then that led to all
the fun. Uh but you know it's that was um,
you know, when you've been through a critical situation, what

(34:12):
you know. I mean it's kind of say, hey, I
mean I have thought of this play in ten years,
but this is this is probably what we need to do.
So that verbal shorthand which comes with a fifty year relationship,
the fact that you can finish his sentence and vice versa, right,
that's where it becomes so valuable. It's not cutting time.

(34:33):
You don't need to hear from fifteen people about what's
going on. This is what we need and you don't
have time, you know, I mean, this is you know,
it's the ball is going to be snapped there in
about twenty five seconds. You don't have time for, you know,
a thirty minute dissertation. Here. You gotta you know, uh,
you gotta get some get something done right right now.

(34:54):
It's not going in you're in a regular season game.
You know you're going in a halftime. Well, that goes
so fast. I mean, player, you know, they got to
go to the training room. Coaches got to get together
for about two minutes, decide what they're gonna do, you know,
and then you know, and then you have any change
you want to make you do. I mean you've got
to be able to really to communicate and do things

(35:14):
very quickly. Did you have a favorite team? You know,
out of all of them, you've had so many teams
that were successful, was there one of them that stuck
out to you? Ah? Boy, hired to beat the two
thousand and one team. I mean that was just uh yeah,
I mean that was so that was so much fun.
I mean we, like Bobby Hamilton, one of my favorite

(35:38):
Patriots players, said, you know, hey, we shocked the world,
you know, and and and we did. I remember going, uh,
you know, the Saturday afternoon before before the Super Bowl,
we went to a you know, a hideaway hotel up
by the New Orleans Airport and you know going, you know,
you go, but drove up past the Superdome. I see
you know the you know, the SWAT guys who are

(35:59):
up on the roof, and you know with all the
you know, the the security they had, you know, after
nine to eleven, I mean they were ready, they were
ready for anything. I mean we had where there practice
in Tulane University, and we got the United States Air
Force going overhead with F sixteen s um and and
I knew, you know, hey, can we beat the Rams?

(36:20):
I don't know, but we're ready to give it our
best shot. Um. So after the game, Earnie, you know
the Super Bowls, you guys are in the last game,
you win the Super Bowl? Did you shock the world?
Did you not shock the world at some point time?
I know that at least my experience in talking to
people who do this, the trains moving, we got to
get ready for the two thousand and two seasons. As

(36:40):
you guys are sitting down after winning the Super Bowl
and you start your organizational meetings, other people in the
organization have had meetings stuff like that. Is there were
a conversation like what just happened? And we got a
lot of hold, Like this isn't the eighty five bears
here we're talking about. You know, we got a lot
of hold, but we won this. This is unbelievable. How
do we now? You know, we got a lot of

(37:01):
holes to fill here, don't you right? I mean, I
mean we yeah, we were. We did. I'm sure we
could probably go back and find things we wish you'd
done differently, but we did. We did not compare ourselves,
you know to the uh you know, to to you
know the forty nine you know the Bill Wash forty

(37:21):
nine year or anything like that. Um, but you know
we've always we always did a pretty good job. Hey,
we're gonna start off next year zero and zero and um,
you know everybody's gonna be gunning for us, and uh,
we understood what you know what the challenge us. Does
it make it easier to do that? I mean, you

(37:42):
won the last game, which is every team's goal. Does
it make it easier to do that? After see a
two thousand and one year as opposed to say a
two thousand and four or two thousand and fourteen team,
You guys are really really good and you know that
you're really good. I yeah, I think I think we
tried to do a good job of just hey, it's

(38:04):
a new season. No, No, nobody's gonna come in here
and want to look at our scrap books. They're gonna
come in here and wanting to knock our heads off.
You know, we understand that's you know, it's the National
Football League and uh uh you know it is a
new season, so we have to It's I mean, every
season is a unique challenge. Obviously, all the playoff games

(38:26):
and Super Bowls and and that kind of success would
stand out. But is there a game that, maybe a
regular season game that stood out to you that maybe
we wouldn't just necessarily snap our finger? Oh I remember
that game, but one that drew particular pride for you
guys finding a way to win. Um. Well, one of
my favorites was in you know, in two thousand and

(38:47):
three playing the Colts. I mean we got a big lead.
Uh they they yeah, yeah, yeah, you remember that. They
like Cloud. They know this is the Willie mc ginnis game.
Who's who's it back for that team? Was Mike Cloud,
wasn't it? It probably was? Yeah? Yeah, the William McGinnis
fake injury game. Yeah, but by both the end, you

(39:08):
know it's it's coming down to one play at the end. Um,
I mean we've been up. I hate, We've been up
by thirty eighth to Tanner Shop. They came back to
me a third. You know, Peyton Manning was tearing our shop.
Came down to one play. They handed them off the
edge and James William McGinnis hit him three yards in
the backfield, and you know, we won the game. I mean,

(39:29):
that's that's fun. That always kind of Yeah, that was
a fun game and people never really think about it
in these terms, but one play that you make allows
that playoff game to be at home instead of on
the road, because that changes the whole complexion of the
records and the tiebreakers and all that stuff. And people

(39:50):
never look at it that way. But just how close
and what a what a great rivalry it was. It
just was tremendous to watch, right, I mean you have
I mean, look, I know when the schedule came out,
that was Peyton Manning and Bill Polly and they all
circled the game with the Patriots. Well I got news
for you. When the schedule I circled the game called

(40:11):
we we know everybody's gonna be there. We know what
it's gonna We know Dwight Freeney's gonna try to beat
Matt White with a spin move in the whole uh,
the whole bad. And we had we had, uh, you know,
some some great games against them, so you know some
we want, so you know they want. It was a
great competition, great competition. Ernie was there. I don't know

(40:33):
if there was the aha moment. And I've had a
conversation with Charlie Weiss where there was something that he
said that sort of he thinks clicked for him. But
do you is there a moment in time when you realized,
with Tom, this isn't your average, This isn't just some
sort of a journeyman, right, you know what, this guy
might be pretty good. Nobody could figure what he's you know,

(40:54):
what he's going on to be. But was there a
Tom when you said, you know what, this guy might
be our right, we might be okay with this guy
if you remember that. I don't know, I don't think.
I don't know that it was one specific play, but
I mean as we started playing in two thousand and one, um,
you know, I mean times just got better every week. Um.

(41:15):
You know, the team responded, well, he was you know,
he was doing well. Um. So I think I think
it was more of a process rather than you know,
one play. Okay, but based on that process and maybe
the body of work was that. You know, certainly the
team was comfortable trading bleds of the following in the
off season and stuff like that, and he said, you

(41:36):
know what, I think we're going to be all right
with this guy as our quarterback going forward. That you
saw enough and it wasn't a huge sample size right right. Well,
I mean, being being realistic about it, we knew after
the two thousand and one season, the town was going
to be our quarterback. We weren't going to have Drew
Here as our back. Okay, I mean that just wasn't

(41:58):
I mean that that that realist was not going to happen.
M Ernie just encapsulated about six months of talk radio
right right in the thirty second clip. I mean, it's
if there was a no brainer. I know what people
look at it like, oh, what what got it? Tom
was the quarterback? You just won the Super Bowl? He
had to be the quarterback and O two and therefore

(42:19):
you can't have one hundred million dollar backup looming over
his shoulder. And that's why, like for me, the one
game for me for Tom and oh one, because I
was a big Drew guy. Truth be told, I loved
the guy and I thought he was a pretty good quarterback,
obviously not anywhere near what Tom has been. But the
New Orleans game in you know, in foxborow in the

(42:39):
rain was around the time that Drew had come back.
It may have been the week after the Rams game.
Drew was getting some starting to get some reps in practice,
and there was some you know, bickering about how much
he was getting ready, and you know, this was the
time where a kid might be looking over his shoulder.
And he responded with a four touchdown game. He played
as well in that game as I think he played

(43:00):
in any of him. It wasn't one of those Well
they handed off to Answe seven times and they won
the game because they won thirteen to ten. Tom lit
it up, and to me, I was like, whoa this
This kid's better than I thought. No, no question. That
was a big, big, big offensive day for And that
was the day that I said, That was the day
that I said that Drew's got to go. As much
as I loved Drew, I did. I mean, it was

(43:22):
a no brainer, right, I mean, it was just h
there was no way that I say, there's no way
that trade wasn't gonna happen, right, and we broken on Patriots, Ernie.
You saw him as part of something with the Giants.
He goes to Cleveland, he builds something in Cleveland. But

(43:44):
this idea of building a culture and a culture that's
now well into its twenty something year and something like that,
what's the secret or is there a secret in getting
everybody on the same page and checking your ego at
the door and doing what's best for the team. Is
that the secret to try to get that? Really? It's

(44:05):
it's it's it's just take it one day at a time,
get better every day. Uh. But that's so easy to say.
It's so hard to do. It's so hard to do,
but you just, you know, we keep hammering it and
you get, you know, you get you get some players
who have success with it, and then they start to
buy in so that when a new guy comes in,
the veteran player can come and go put his arm

(44:27):
around the new guys. Hey, look, buddy, this is the
way it works around here, and some people who come
in from outside, uh can take it, and some you know, something,
to be honest with you, looks I didn't know it
really worked this hard. I'm not sure this is uh,
this is for me. I mean it's I always say
if you're if you're just in the winning football games,

(44:49):
then the Wingham Place is the place to be. If
you've got other things on your on your agenda, it's
probably you're probably not gonna like it very much, right
And and I don't know if this is fear or
not bring up the name or something like that, but
Patriots fans were enamored by a guy in the great
cult rivalry, Jonas Great two hundred yards, you know, and

(45:10):
look at look at this guy and everything like that,
and they just found somebody else the next week or
the week after that. It's this is what it takes
to sustain the program. And you either jump on board
or you don't jump on board. I don't know how
great an example that is. I just think of somebody
who flashed, you know, But the program isn't about somebody

(45:30):
who flashes. It's about the team. It's about the team
and showing up every day and football. Football is a
messy game. It is not figure skating. There are no
style points. Things don't always work right. But it's just
showing up every day, trying to learn from your mistakes,
get better every day, help the guy next to you.

(45:50):
I mean, it's about what it takes to have be
really successful in a lot of businesses. Speaking of the
game itself, though, we talked a little bit earlier about
you know, the seventies and now and even the way
the game has changed even more recently ten years ago.
What are your thoughts on on the way the game
has played today and do you like it not? Is

(46:11):
it more skill based, you know, maybe some speed or
did you kind of like the physicality? Well, you know,
one thing, of course we got you know, we played
with you know, Tom Brady and every since. Oh it's
Tom Brady throwing the ball. But we were always a
very physical running team. Okay, even though we were spread

(46:32):
out and we could and we could throw the ball,
we also could hand the ball off and pound it.
So I mean, I don't think I think you know,
to be able to win today's football. I mean, there
are more wide receivers on the field, so it's nickel
defense on the field that's more spread out. But there
are times when you got to be able to come

(46:53):
off the ball and run it. I mean, if you really,
if you really want to be good, I mean, and
it's you, Yeah, you you can go. You you can
have a ten win season just you know, be throwing
the ball. But if you really, if you really want to,
you know, end up being you know, playing being one

(47:14):
of the final four. It's really hard to do without
being able to be physical. And does that physicality start
on the offensive line. It's got absolutely if you have
a soft offensive line, you're not going anywhere because soft
offensive line is not gonna be a real good pass
protecting offensive line. Right. So I saved my toughest one

(47:36):
for last. So you spanned a lot of eras of
Patriots Football, pat Patriot or Elvis pat Patriot every time. Sorry, no,
you're not alone. We get a lot of it. I
mean because I go but hey, I mean I I do.
I go back to I never went to a game

(47:57):
of Brave Field. I wasn't Friday Nights at Family Park.
I mean I thought that was you know, I mean,
that was pat Patriot time that that said, uh uh,
that's that's Boston. That's New England. That's for me every
time I hear my first game, and I'm gonna give
Earning a chance to show off because he has no
idea what the game is going to be. At seventy six,

(48:19):
it was a Monday night game against the Jets here,
oh my first game, yeah yeah, yeah, well, and of
course we started putting men in motion. They had no clue,
so it was the game was a massacre. And what
I unfortunately remember, was it all u at Schaeffer Stadium
because it was right near our offices. The uh, the

(48:41):
officers of the law had something. So I learned some
stuff that night. Doesn't need your old learney. Yeah yeah,
so what the cops say. All they could do was
handcuff them to the cheats and come on, let me,
I'll show you. I'll show you to take his head
cuffs soft me. And it was really right by the

(49:03):
door that we all came on. It was an amazing site.
My father, grandfather and uncle took me and they literally
made a triangle around me and we're walking out and
they're like, just keep going this way, no, don't worry
about that. Over the straight ahead. They didn't want me
to see any of this. There was literally hundreds of
people like handcuffs, Chane link fence. Did Grogan scoring a

(49:24):
bootleg in that game? Yeah? Like forty yards long, long
touchdown run right one to seven? Yeah? Yeah yeah. Ernie.
As a kid, as you said, you went to the
Dexter school, you grew up around here. You've experienced the
NFL in in a couple of different places. But to
be able to be with your hometown team and and
have the success that you had, you know, Bill, always,
as you you've talked about it's the next practice, it's

(49:46):
the next game. But now that you are retired, can
you look back at it and go, Holy smokes, this
is unbelievable? Absolutely sure, I mean, I um, and is
it fun for you to do that? Do you take
some sort of pride out of it? Oh? I'm resolutely.
I mean, I mean I've got every you know, every
every year, you know, you win the Super Bowl, they

(50:08):
do a special issue of Sports Illustratum, and I've got
all the issues that we won there. I've got them
all signed, you know, by every by everybody who's on it.
I mean, I've got them all upout, you know, on
my wall. Shure I mean, I know, I know, even
though when you're in it, it's hey, let's get ready
for the next practice, let's run the ball off tackle better.
Sure you sit back there. You know, Hey we had
you know, one of the great maybe the the greatest

(50:30):
run in the history of the national football Go that's
a big deal. It is a big deal, and it
easy for us to say on the outside, but you
never say never. But that kind of level of success
and sustainability, you don't replicate that. You've seen too much
of it. There are too many, too many good teams,
too many smart people, too many good players. Right, it's

(50:50):
really hard. It's really look, winning at once is really hard.
Doing it repeatedly is uh um. You know, it's a
it's a phenomenal accomplishment. But again, the biggest thing was
when you're doing it, you're just thinking about, Hey, the
next player, next game. Let's just you know, it's one game.

(51:11):
And you know, I know people say, oh, that's coach Stock,
one game at a time. But it's the key to
success in getting people to believe it is the is
the key to success. But Paul asked you a question
about oh one, and is this is this also part
of the key Ernie where he said did you have
any expectations in OH one? And you answered, I wanted
to see progress? Is that kind of the key for

(51:34):
your team, whether you're twelve and four or four and twelve.
Can we just make progress? Right? Can we get can
we when we're going out to practice in training camp?
Or we're a better football team when we come off
the field than when we went on it. Now, look,
I understand if you're if you're going into if you're
going in coaching this year at the Jacksonville Jaguars, you

(51:56):
have you are truly just hoping to get better because
you know you have you have to get a little
bit bit bit better. You know you have a long
way to go. Whereas there were you know, some of
our teams would pay for yours. How you knew, Hey,
realistically we should be able to compete with everybody in
the league. But you're still it's still you go every

(52:17):
day trying to get better. That's why you know, I
see the big picture. You got right behind you, you
know number twelve throwing the ball. That's why he you
know he would jump on a receiver for cutting this
roadoff at nine yards instead of twelve yards because it's
doing It's all the little things, it's all the details.
Every day you have to do it and get it right,

(52:37):
because when you get down to those critical situations in
the championship game where you know you got the whole
season's right now one play, it's the ability to execute
the fundamentals just right that makes a difference. So on
that note, and you mentioned twelve throwing the ball. Twelve
goes down in the first quarter in two thousand and eight, Okay,
you're a team that had were a series away from

(53:00):
going nineteen to ozer. You've got a really good team
still coming back. That team can go down the toilet
pretty quickly, even though you still had a pretty good
group of guys around you. I'm not saying you guys
are popping champagne after eleven and five and that windy
game in Buffalo to end the season, But is there
a sense of pride, like, you know what, we didn't
go down the toilet. We did kind of keep our

(53:21):
head above water, and we salvage something with what we
were doing, and maybe we did improve by the end
of the year. You know, I that's I expect us
to play that way Okay, it's not. I mean, it's
what you know, it's it's what we do. I mean,
going out doing our best every day, trying to be competitive.
I mean that's uh, you know, that's there's nothing to me,

(53:46):
nothing special about that, because it's the it's the way
we approached every every year, every game, every practice, um,
you know, every every play. So maybe does that validate it. Yeah,
that's why we do this. That's why we do this. Yeah, yeah, right,
I mean we're going you know, you you you know,
in the National Football League, you're gonna go out on Sunday.

(54:07):
You're gonna have millions of people watching us. That's always
in the back of your mind. I mean, we we're
gonna have a team playing against us that's going to
be doing everything they can to beat us. I mean
that's just you know, the competitive part of the game.
His name is Ernie Adams. Ernie tremendous stuff as usual.
Really appreciate you taking the time to join us and

(54:28):
continued enjoyment in your non football days as you enjoy retirement.
Thanks for coming down. I really appreciate it. Thank you
very much. Been impl I should appreciate it. Thank you
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(54:50):
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