January 10, 2023 • 40 mins
In this episode of Pats from the Past we sit down with three-time Super Bowl Champion James Develin. Among the highlights of the interview include: His unique journey to the NFL, that led him to his ultimate position of fullback. The toughest player he had to block-you’ll be surprised. His favorite moment on the field for the Patriots WASN’T a Super Bowl and more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time now for another episode of Patch from the
Past podcast Matt Smith along with Paul Perillo, and we're
pleased to be joined by number forty six on your scorecard,
but number one in our hearts, at least for today, right. Well,
and that's James Devil, who joins us all the way
from the Jersey Shore. James, how you doing. Nice to
see you guys. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I
(00:27):
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Are you getting some of that Jim tan laundry thing.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Going, Yeah, a little bit, although there's not much tanning
going on right now.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
No, it's so great here. I can't even believe it.
I don't remember the last time we saw.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
It's been fog. It's been nothing but fog here for
like a week. But it's all good man.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, and I do think, Paul, I don't know if
you ever catch us, but I do think periodically we
still see a little Sulli entire commercial every once in
a blue moon with James on it.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
James is thrilled to hear that.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Please, Tom, you've got a good set of all wheel
tires or something at least out of that.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, mister Sullivan takes care of me. Man,
He's been a great friend. You know, we kind of
established a relationship while I was up there playing, and honestly,
I look up to him now as like like me
and my little entrepreneurial role. You know, he's got a
lot of knowledge and experience in this world. So we're
(01:24):
trying to just you know, keep it fun and keep
it light. And he's been a great partner thus far.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So you mentioned entrepreneurial James, and we ask everybody about this.
Some people are more visible guys who are broadcasting things
like that, like things like that, What is James Devlin
up to these days?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Sure? Yeah, So so upon retirement, I've retired right into
that you know, initial onset of COVID, so things kind
of slowed down a little bit. But honestly, it was
nice for me to kind of like just ease my
way into like you know, being a real adult and
stop playing a child's game professionally. So I did a
(02:01):
lot of soul search in a lot of like what
I wanted to do. My biggest priority these days is
my family. Got four kids now and my wife obviously,
so I'm a huge, huge family man. Try to keep
that to you know, the highest level of importance, but
I wanted to I knew I wanted to kind of
create my own legacy beyond football. I wanted to control
(02:25):
my my time and destinies here. So I decided to
go into this entrepreneurial role. I actually took an entrepreneurial
course through the NFLPA Trust, and that helped kind of
just connect me with with, you know, people that were
local and across the country that could kind of guide
me and what I wanted to do. And ended up
(02:46):
buying a business here on the Jersey Shore called Soulberry.
It's a little coffee smoothie, sa e bowl type place
two blocks off the beach. And so now I'm trying
to expand that that business for more towns on the
Jersey Shore, and then hopefully beyond that. My goal here
in like maybe the next five to ten years is
(03:08):
to have one in Patriot Place. So hopefully you can
get a soul Berry up there.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Maybe we'll have to do a sequel to the Pass
Pass with Jacobs. We'll keep you in the circulation here
for Robert and Jonathan, so we'll get that done. Obviously, James,
your story is one that's been told a lot, you know,
not the most common path of the NFL. But I'm
just curious, you know, in your time at Brown and
your positional moves. You know, when did you think I
(03:37):
can do this, I could be an NFL player. Was
there a time before you actually made it that you
really thought that you could do this?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah? So I always kind of had the self belief, right,
I think that you kind of need that when you're
just embarking on this kind of quest. And like you said,
I was definitely not like a highly talted prospect coming
out of college. I had to kind of scratch up
and claw to find an agent just to represent me,
let alone, you know, get in front of some NFL teams,
(04:06):
and really, I would say I went so after college,
I went and had to try out with the Cleveland Browns.
Didn't even make it to the third day. They had
me at three four outside linebacker. I was I was
a mess. And then after that I played in an arena football.
Then I played in the UFL and that's when I
made the switch to fullback, and I'd say that's when
(04:27):
I really felt like, hey, I can do something here.
Because I was playing I was one of two, like
you know, true rookies on the team and all the
other guys I'd say ninety five percent of the roster
were x NFL guys. So it kind of gave me
like the first like barometer to measure myself against. And
(04:48):
so when I earned it started position and I was
like making some nice plays out there. That's when I
really felt like, hey, I can do this. I just
need the right opportunity. And then you know, practice squads
and stuff like that. Three years later, I was, you know,
starting for the Pats, So it all kind of that's
when it really like that was my jump off point.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I don't know that Paul and I can sit here.
I know we can't sit here.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And what's it like to be in.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
An ivy League school? But did you you know, was
this dream something that you were dreaming of what you
were Brown? Did you get made fun of? Did you say, oh, please,
come on, you're gonna end up doing you know, be
a lawyer, you'll be a doctor. You know, that's why
you come to Brown. And conversely, did you also hear
it when you're in the UFL? You know, hey, ivy
you know, did you get stuck with a nickname or
(05:33):
was there any kind of stigmatism to IVY League guys
don't make it to the NFL, what you know, maybe
in their training staff or something like that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, so I'd say, first and foremost being at Brown,
I mean there was there was definitely doubters because, like
you said, they're not not every day you know, guys
come out of the football powerhouse that is Brown University,
let alone the entire IVY League. But you know, I
was experienced. I had a year on the team with
Zach Tiassi and he was drafted to the Giants as
(06:04):
a linebacker then ended up having a thirteen year career
as a long snapper. But I knew it was possible,
and that's kind of all I needed to hear. The rest.
It was kind of up to me, So I yeah,
there was doubters. Yeah, there was times when you know,
guys were going out partying and I was staying back
because I wanted to wake up early in training, and
you know, they'd be like, oh, you're not making it
to the NFL, like just come out, and I'm like, no,
(06:27):
I got I got bigger aspirations, I got dreams I
got to like kind of take care of. So there
was definitely those kind of moments, But to say I
got picked on, I wouldn't say that. And then once
I got to the UFL. Once I got to the UFL,
everyone was kind of in the same boat. We were
all there with a purpose to try to get exposure
(06:47):
to get back in the NFL. So there was absolutely
no you know, naysayan or anything like that. Everyone kind
of had a story. I mean, there was kind of
NFL cast offs that were trying to regain their reputations
and nobody, nobody was higher or lower than anyone in
that in that organization. That's something that you know, always
kind of stuck with me because everyone was humbled. Everybody
(07:09):
was humbled to be there. Although it was a great
opportunity and we were getting compensated and all that stuff, Like,
everyone had a humbling journey to get on that roster.
And uh so it was a it was a great
learning experience experience, and that is a I don't know
what I was twenty one, twenty two year old kid.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Probably a portraits of words. Paul I should have said,
busted his balls maybe then that yeah, thing like that.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely definitely got my balls busted.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Just what was the first impression here. You know, you
you get in here what was probably what twenty twelve, Yes,
and you know you're sort of your your first interactions
with Bill Belichick, Tom Brady. I mean, obviously it's an
organization that had done a lot of winning and here
you are trying to find your way as an NFL player,
(07:59):
let alone, you know, make it into a role. What
was it first like for you your first impressions?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, so it was it was everything I was looking
for in a football team. That the the respect, the accountability,
you know, the kind of I could you could say strictness,
but it's it's more than that. It's kind of just
like that. That level of respect that you have for
your teammates, your coaches, the game itself, and your approach
(08:28):
to that game. That that is what I what stood
out to me because coming through the UFL and and
then my first year and a half with Cincinnati on
their practice squad, it wasn't it wasn't like that, but uh,
I always cherished the types of organizations where you know,
the head coach was like a guy that was almost
(08:49):
like a father type figure, and I never wanted to
like let him down. So I had that at Brown
coach Justice was was a like a very like brute,
just like you did not want to let him down.
You didn't want to disappoint him. And so that's what
I always loved about playing with it for him, and
then with Bill, it was the same kind of thing,
the respect that he had being Bill Belichick and all that.
(09:11):
I never wanted to let him down, you know. I
wanted to just do everything to try to be the
best player I could be, for him, for my teammates,
for my other coaches, the whole organization. So that level
of respect just really stood out to me, I mean,
and then just the humility of the guys and the
lack of ego, you know, coming in and seeing, holy shit,
(09:33):
this is Bill Belichick. I'm talking to her. This is
Tom Brady, the you know, the greatest. At that point,
he was already on his way to becoming the greatest
quarterback of all time, and now he is. And it's
just like wow, Like these guys are are you know,
humble enough and human enough to like just kind of
sit down and talk to me and you know, say
what's up in the in the cafeteria and just sit
(09:56):
down and like have a regular conversation, that level of
of just humility around across the across the organization really
stood out.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Bill often says, or the coaches and players say, James,
that you know, for new people, draft picks, undrafted free agents,
people like that, the best route to make the team
and to make an impact is on special teams. And
would you agree with that in is there a moment
where you can remember, you know, on teams that you
(10:25):
know you were able to maybe stack some things together
to get them to you know, notice you and say, hey,
this is somebody that we should that we think we
should consider keeping to work with.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Sure. Yeah, so that's exactly That's exactly how how it
came for me. I mean my first year on twenty twelve,
I was on a practice squad. They brought me up
for four games. I played in one game Sunday night
against the against San Francisco forty nine ers, and all
I did was special teams. I didn't play one offensive snap.
(10:56):
We lost that game. It was raining, uh raw and.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Hold I remember the yea yeah, yeah, interesting game. For
the first game, it felt, I think we fell behind
like thirty one to three or something like that, came
back and then we ended up losing.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, we came back and we were kind of mounting
the comeback a little bit, and late in the fourth
quarter they were punting and Wes Welker was our apartment
turn at the time, called it like the ten u
took it back for like maybe fifteen or so yards
and I got called for a holding against Navarro bowmen.
And I remember feeling like this big coming off the sideline,
(11:31):
like not trying to make eye contact with Scott O'Brien,
our special teams coordinated at the time and Bill and
all that, just like trying to shrink down. But you know,
like I learned a lot from that experience. And then
the following year, so twenty thirteen, go through training camp,
I'm kind of solidifying myself on the offense. But the
first play of the entire season, my entire like season
(11:54):
as a real NFL starter, our opening kickoff. We were
in Buffalo and we ran this little thing. It's kind
of back when we had the wedge and I was
one of like the off men off the wedge and
I and I kind of trapped behind the wedge guys
and hit the L two and absolutely just demolished them.
(12:15):
And that that moment. I was like, that is like
kind of putting a stamp on who I am. I
like to be physical, and I just I was like
the electricity I felt in my body when I made
that hit and then came off on the sideline, I
mean I could have like lit up the entire stadium.
It was. It was unreal. So that that moment, and
(12:36):
then that was one of the first clips that Bill
played that following Monday, and I was like, yeah, I
think I you know, showed everybody who I was and
what I could do.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I was just going to ask you, did you get
an added boy for that? Where you you know, and
what's that like, you know, on the positive end of it,
because I'm sure it happens on the other end everybody,
But what's it like in the other when you get
that like, hey, this is what we're trying to do
here an awesome feeling?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, it was. It was a culmination of a lot
of a lot of experiences, both bad and good, on
on the on the journey to that point, you know,
I mean there was like some there was definitely some
bright days, but there was also some dark days. And
so having that type of moment where like you finally
just kind of like erupt on some on somebody and
(13:25):
like you're You've made it. I mean it was. It
was a wild experience and one that I'll always remember, man,
And that's that that type of that type of fight
and desire for something and then finally obtaining it like
that continues to drive me to this day. So I'll
be it. Off the football field, I still I still
(13:46):
kind of associate everything to you know, how I approached
the game of football and now I'm trying to do
it in a different business. But uh yeah, it all
kind of it all kind of works the same.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So now you're going to the sidelines and you make
an icon with anybody whill look back at you, right, yeah,
so different different. So I remember, you know, and mostly
because of Andy Andy Hart, who absolutely he was a
full back in high school in a college and played
and he absolutely loved the old school full back that
was James Devlin. So I remember a thirty one yard
(14:18):
catch in the thirteen season, you know, I mean most
of your work was down around the goal line. If
you ever got the ball in your hands, it's you know,
one yard touchdown runs and things like that. But do
you remember that thirty one yard. I think it was
in that season, that thirteen season.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, it was twenty thirteen. Yes, when they when they
realized I wasn't I wasn't any fast at all. So
but yeah, I ran a little wheel route up the
right sideline on Barkhevius Mingo who later becamemate and went
up for it with two hands, but I actually only
caught it with one, brought it down and then I
(14:52):
forget his first name, his last name was Ward, but
he was a safety tackle me bounced my head off
the ground slightly, slightly, cancut still the play, but then
came back to play and my first play was was
a wham on their de tackle. So you know, I
was all right.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
You know, Paul mentions, you know, Andy and fullback. But
it is a it's kind of a small fraternity these days, James,
one that I'm sure that you're proud of being a
part of. But you know, when you look around the league,
I don't know if you watch how much you watch
or anything like that, are you surprised? You know, I
guess that the the the amount or the lack of
(15:29):
the amount of fullbacks that are in the National Football
League today.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, so that's always kind of been the moniker, right,
is like the fullback is kind of getting phased out
and it's becoming like a dinosaur I've heard used a lot.
But it's funny because I feel like, you know, you
see successful teams and especially this time of year when
when defenses are a little beat up and the teams
that can run the ball, they really like start to
(15:55):
establish an identity this time of year, and most of
those teams have fullbacks, you know, I mean, look at
the forty nine ers. My guy Juice check Is is
one of the best. I mean, he's a Harvard guy,
so kind of got to like, you know, knock him
for that a little bit, but he's he's a great
fullback for them. A little bit different style, you know,
(16:16):
he like he gets he uses his body perfectly in
their scheme. You know, not much not so much of
like a downhill guy. But like there's there's fullbacks like
making a difference. I mean, Yakub Johnson in in uh
in Las Vegas, I mean the guy the guy has
having a great year. Jacobs is having a great year
behind him. So there's definitely examples of the fullback position
(16:40):
still being utilized in a in a very good way.
And so I'll always kind of like, you know, keep
an eye out for those guys and root for him
because I think a fullback is very useful. It's getting
more useful as it's getting less used, I think because
defenses aren't as aware of how to fit two back
(17:02):
runs as much anymore. And see, I get I get real,
I get real like advanced in my in my thought
process sometimes. But I feel like as the NFL kind
of continues to go down this route where maybe fullbacks
aren't being used, I think it starts to change the
landscape of how defense is being played, and it might
(17:25):
end up becoming more susceptible to actually run these two
back runs in like the old school style, you know,
thirty five runs a game, so you could see like
a resurgence coming back, you know. I think I think
what Tennessee has been doing with Henry Is is kind
of a little example of that. And uh, and you're
seeing examples, you know, across the league sometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, And just as a real quick aside, John Hannah,
you know, Hall of Fame offensive guard and you know,
probably second or third greatest player in this team's history. Yeah,
said exactly what you've said. You know, it's probably going
back ten years. But he talked about sort of the
influx of the spread passing games and the smaller linebackers
and the speed emphasis on defense. He said, it's all
(18:10):
going to come full circle. Teams, the smart teams are
gonna come back. They're going to load up with two
tight ends, fullbacks, and they're going to pound away at
these smaller defenses. And you look at Baltimore and you know,
Matt and I talked about this before the podcast, that
they kid recard is it's like a defensive tackle playing fullback.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Three pounds is the tackle. Yeah, he plays both ways.
He plays the tackle on fullback, does a great job
at both too. And you're exactly right. I'm sorry to
cut you off, but I think I think the game
of football is like kind of a microcosm of life.
And I feel like life is a little bit cicklic
Things kind of happen and then everybody reacts to that,
(18:48):
and then you realize that, all right, Well, now like
the next cycle is like the reaction to that reaction.
And so I think I think football is the same.
You know, I thinks, like you said, defense is getting
smaller defenses not really being aware of I mean, how
many colleges run full back right now? How many defenses
are playing you know, you know, traditional two back runs
(19:10):
in college. And then once these guys get to the NFL,
you know, they're not seeing much as well. So I
think there there could be a little chink in the
armor here down the road.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
James, as you described that is, is that you think
a good way maybe to describe what happened with you
guys at the end of the eighteen season because you
lost to Miami, you lost to Pittsburgh, and you know,
I don't know if there was a hey, what is
it that we do well here, Let's see if we
can get back to that. And you guys went to
(19:41):
a power running game, and that power running game took
you all the way to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, you know, I think there was there was a
little bit of that each season. I felt like late
in the year it's always nice to be able to
kind of hang your hat on the run game because
after you know, sixteen game season at that time, now seventeen,
people are beat up. You know, nobody wants to you know,
stick their face in the fin you know, twenty thirty
times a game, and so if you can kind of
(20:09):
like establish yourself as a as a quality running team
the end at the end of the season, it always
kind of slows the game down. It's like nice and
methodical and it really opens up the playbook offensively. So
we always kind of try to do that. But yeah,
i'd say twenty eighteen was the was the greatest example
(20:29):
of that. I mean, I think we we really like
we were challenged honestly when we lost to up to Pittsburgh.
You know, our coach has challenged us to like, you know,
who are we going to be? And we had some
guys that were like road graders at the time, and
so we all just kind of like really got back
to work and like I said, like through that ego
(20:51):
out the window and just said like, look, we're gonna
we're gonna make the most of our opportunities. And yeah,
we had a we had great success running the ball.
That was that was some of my favorite football you know,
it's just having my daughter at the time and that Yeah,
that playoff run in twenty eighteen was was special.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
So that Kansas City game in particular is one that
Matt and I and a lot of us around here
talk about you know, we've both been here over twenty years,
so we've been lucky enough to be part of a
lot of wins. Yeah, and when we're asked which one
stands out, you know, obviously Super Bowls are more important
than AFC championship games, but I think you'd be hard
pressed to top just in terms of sheer skill on
(21:32):
both sides of the ball. That game in Kansas City.
What do you remember about it? And you know, just
kind of the atmosphere and everything that went into it. It
was probably one of the landmark wins for you guys,
no question.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, thinking back of my football career,
even from you know, the start and when I was
seven years old till I retired in twenty twenty, that
stands out as the as my favorite football game I've
ever played in. And it could, honestly like it gives
me chills, Like if I didn't know the sweatshirt on
(22:04):
it show my forums a goosebump right now. It almost
brings a tear to my eye honestly, because it was
like it was just it was it was like the
perfect team against the world environment. First of all, Kansas
City is a great place to play football. And when
we were walked in there, like you could just feel
(22:25):
how much we like, no one wanted us to be there, right,
so it was us like the forty six guys on
the field, plus you know, all the help we have
on the sideline. So call it like seventy to eighty people.
It was like us against you know, close to ninety thousand.
And this way we started the game like running the ball. Well,
(22:48):
I think we ran lead on the first play, Sony
broke it for like thirteen or something like that, and
then you know, and then it was the goal line
run bang, We score a goal line run bang, score,
and it was everything was kind of like you know,
just building and building and building, and we knew that
they were going to break at some point defensively if
(23:09):
we just kind of kept just you know, kept the
punches coming and h and then finally, yeah, it kind
of did. And then they fought back and that whole
like that just like EBB and flow of the game
and then you know, going into overtime and geez, like
all the third downs that we converted, I mean, like
(23:29):
it is like lighting me up right now just thinking
about it. And then the final play is one of
my favorites of all time. And you know, standing over Rex,
you know as he was in the end zone is
like one of my favorite football memories. Yeah, it was
that was that was truly a special one. And just
the feeling of like brotherhood that we had, like after
(23:49):
we won that, and like running off the field and
just the exuberance like among like the misery of all
the fans and the other team. It was like just
it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So I do have one email question here from sure
from young Andy who always wanted to ask you if
you felt bad that Sony got all the credit for
that that ground and pound attack and it wasn't you
getting the credit for it? No?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
No, because that's my role, man, Like that's and that
I think every fullback would say that across the league.
Who's really ever played is you don't really play the
fullback position for the limelight, you know. Like I was
very happy just kind of in my role, you know,
quietly just going out there and doing my job. And
you know it, I loved I you know, I love Sony.
(24:39):
You know I love that that playoff run. I love
all the guys that that I played with, man and
and so I don't have any animosity towards any of that.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know, you talk about how it felt when you're
walking in and everything like that. Did the cold you know,
did you do you remember how cold it was that day?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I was pretty cold. That was the cold one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
But does are you conditioned and trained to the point
James where that's not really a factor, especially as you
get going and you talked about right out of the
shoot you know, bam, you hit him with the run.
You went right down the field and scored, ran it in,
went right down the field again, I think, and could
have scored. Didn't Tom throw a pick on the second drive? Right? Yeah,
(25:19):
tremendous time of possession advantage that you guys had as
you're going through. Do you ever do does a cold dissipate?
Do you not even realize what's going on because you're
in the heat of the moment as far as the
game is concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, i'd say whereas about it, we're about
his conditioned to the cold as as anybody in the NFL.
The way that we prepare and the way that we practice,
you know, outside no matter what it is out there,
we're we're out there in it, and I was always
kind of, you know, one of those tough guys that
wouldn't wear his sleeves of practice, never wear a sleeve
in a game. And I kind of like reveled that
(25:55):
a little bit. And you'd feel the cold like one
hundred percent, especially on the sideline. But then we have
like the heated benches and the and the you know,
the blowers over there, so like there's ways around it
once once you're out on the field. Honestly, the worst
part is like timeouts, when you're just kind of standing
in the huddle and like the winds hitting you en
(26:16):
you know, you got nothing to protect you. But once
that ball snap, man, like there's you don't have you
don't have time to think about how cold it is.
And so that's then like I guess maybe the advantage becomes,
you know, more apparent when like, you know, that ball
snapped and it's just like, you know, it's football. You know,
we don't have time to worry about if it's fifteen
(26:37):
degrees versus seventy five.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
So you mentioned the euphoria in the end zone and
one of the great moments of your career, and I
think we can all remember you know, guys throwing their
helmets off, Andrews lifting Brady, you know, everybody just you
know the joy of winning that game. But at what
point in time do you need to flip the switch
and say this is you know, we've got one more
(27:02):
left and it would be a shame for all that
we've accomplished. Going into Kansas City, nobody thought we could
do it. We went in and beat the Chiefs. We
got to now close a deal.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, it was immediate. I mean I remember, I remember everyone,
almost everybody I hugged, and I can remember vividly, like
hugging Tom and the first words I heard from his
mouth where we got one more. And that's everyone was
saying that. Everybody knew, I mean in the excitement of
the moment, everybody also knew that, like, you know, we
(27:33):
didn't fight all this or do all this work throughout
the season and and fight to get to this point,
like we we wanted to be here, but there's also
more to be had. So that was always something that
you know, I feel like we were always always aware of.
As you know, the work wasn't done until really the
work first or second weekend in February when.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
We talk about all these different things and they see
how fired up you still get about some of these blocks.
These you know, you're talking about lead and you know
they having a wham. Was there a guy that you
went against that particularly stood out to you was toughest
to block?
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah, I'd say, I know. I mean, I tell everybody
who asked this, Landon Roberts in practice was the toughest
guy for me because I'd say, like generally speaking, I'm
I'm like a taller ish fullback, you know, like six',
Three SO i had kind of lose a lot of
like natural leverage that like a six foot and maybe
(28:33):
under guy would. Have But landin's like maybe five, eleven you,
know maybe six foot right on the. Roster but, uh
that dude also just had LIKE i, mean he was
like in practice the first day, pads everybody knew we'd
get to nine on seven and the first play would
be lead and it'd be me on me Versus, landen
(28:56):
and it was just like a like a car accident every,
time you, know it was just. Wild and so that
guy just with his natural leverage and his like ability
to just thump and have like little to no regard
for his, body he was always a tough guy to.
Block otherwise then it was like you, know d. TACKLES
i remember the first TIME i had a wham On
(29:18):
Vince wilfork AND i felt LIKE i was throwing my
body into a brick. Wall that dude did not move at.
All and then, obviously you, know first play of the
Last Super bowl there against The rams hitting In dominican
su and, like you, know that was a very similar.
Feeling so, yeah there was definitely some big BOYS i
(29:39):
had to go up, against But landed, man it was
just like every TIME i had to like strap up
extra tight because this dude was was just coming and you,
KNOW i definitely wasn't backing a way. Either so it
was just just gnarly hits every.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Year AND i don't know if it's the same as a,
fullback but those downhill linebackers run stopping, linebackers they're not
in great abundance. Nowadays everybody wants to sideline to sideline.
Guy you, know everybody wants a guy that's got all the,
speed can cover a back out of the, backfield can
maybe get drop into his zone and cover a wide.
Receiver So, ROBERTS i think another guy who's really formed
(30:16):
a nice little career for himself at a position THAT
i don't know if it's, extinct but you, know people
kind of going away from to your point that you
made earlier with all the spread and everything like.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
That, YEAH i completely, agree. MAN i, mean now it's
all about versatility and being able to run and play
the run and play the pass all this, stuff AND
i mean just, wait you, KNOW i think we'll see
things come back around and then you, know linebackers will
be two fifty two fifty, five two sixty, again and you,
(30:46):
know we're gonna have to start packing a box up,
because like you, said two tight ends and a, fullback let's.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Go did you have you, know, teams you, know a
particular rivalry that you, know you got a LITTLE x
juiced up. For what were the teams that that had
a little bit more motivation to play? Against?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah so early, On, Uh i'd say The. Broncos they
were always tough. Games when When peyton was there and
playing out In, BUFFALO i felt like we always had
to play them out, there except for that. ONE i
think they may have Been monday night when they came
out and that was a real cold. One and, uh
and we came back from like twenty eight down or
(31:27):
something at. Halftime but, anyways uh, yeah The broncos were
were always a good. One The steelers were always a good.
One The colts were always always a good. Fight and then,
obviously you, know like our divisional rivals were were always.
Tough you, know it didn't matter what they're or what they're,
uh what their their standings. Were it was just we
(31:50):
knew each other so. Well it was like you, know
fighting your, Brother so it was there were always. Tough The,
jets The, dolphins and the and The. Bill The bill
is obviously, yeah so those one are roway.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Stuff when you're sitting there In South jersey on the,
shore you're trying to start this. Business you've got this
business plan in your. Mind you're thinking, about you, know
five years down the, road maybe ten years down the.
Road how, Often, james do you sort of catch yourself
or is it brought to your attention or anything like
that that you're a three times Super bowl.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
CHAMPION i, mean i'd say that the Super bowl champion
thing doesn't come. Up but WHERE i thought you were,
Going and WHAT i do want to say here, is uh,
is While i'm on this, journey, right this entrepreneurial journey
in my life after. Football i'm big about like this
whole like growth, mindset trying to get better every single
day at What i'm, doing even THOUGH i, mean, Shit
(32:48):
i'm not Gonna i'm not gonna bullshit. Here there's days
WHERE i Know I'm i'm, LIKE i have no idea
What i'm. Doing i'm just out. Here i'm out here
trying to way through the. Water But i'll tell you
it's like. Clockwork almost every single Day i'm reminded of
something that the game of football taught. Me And i'm
(33:08):
particularly reminded of something That Bill, belichick you, know was
like one of his, staples and this like the wisdom
THAT i THAT i took in for my eight years
In New. ENGLAND i mean it was like reading like
every masterclass book and everything about self, help like the
(33:30):
the guy just like exuberates this wisdom that like WHILE
i was, PLAYING i was picking it. Up but MAYBE
i wasn't like, registered MAYBE i wasn't mature enough at
the point to really like let it resonate with. Me
but now it's LIKE i realize so much and there's
like these things that were about football but THEN i
translate them to business and or things just about. Life
(33:53):
and that's really been standing out to me AND i
And i've Told bill that to his, face just, like
how much like the these lessons come up and in
my life beyond, football and how MUCH i, appreciate you,
know the time and the wisdom that he that he.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Gave do you have much interaction with you, know your former.
TEAMMATES i, mean it's clear listening to you how much
you miss. IT i mean just the entirety of. It
but how much interaction do you still have with the? Guys?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
YEAH i mean obviously living down here In, jersey there's
not a ton of other guys that are down, Here
BUT i still keep in contact with with some guys
on the team. Still you Know David, Andrews, Slate dev,
mccordy guys like. That and then you know guys that
have moved on as, well you Know, Julian Danny, mendola you,
Know Dwayne, allen guys like, that and then some guys
(34:43):
from like the equipment staff that will always be just
like dear, Friends like DO i miss the?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Game?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Absolutely DO i miss? Those there's like bonds THAT i
THAT i created in the locker. Room, Yes and the
and the sad part, is, like you, know for eight
years was able to interact with these guys on a
daily basis like, family and now it's LIKE i got
to set, up you, know a, call and Like dwayne
(35:09):
lives In San, francisco and now there's like the time
difference And i'm calling. Him he's with his, son And i'm,
like you, know it's just like all these you, know mix,
ups but we still keep in, contact and, like you,
know one of my favorite Conversations i've had in the
in the last month was With. Jewels you, know the
guy's busy as, hell traveling FROM la to back To
(35:31):
New york and all this, stuff but he still found
found time to you, know sit down to kind of
shoot the ship with. Me and so it, was you,
know we just went went through a lot in those eight.
Years you, KNOW i was newly, married had had three
of my four kids at the, time and you, know
he had his, daughter and you, know all these guys
were going through all these life experiences together and that
(35:52):
just doesn't get thrown out the window when we're done
playing the, game you. Know so, yeah there's definitely good
relationships That i'll all be cherish from my time with The.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Pats do you find that, Constant, james when you're talking
to these guys that it's the, relationships you, know and
those are the things that are Never, yeah, sure you
miss being in the locker, room the camaraderie and everything like,
that the plane, rides even maybe the bus, rides the
meetings of the all. Times, no but it's those. Relationships
is that a constant or a theme when you're talking
to other guys that are no longer.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Playing, yeah, YEAH i think that's one hundred percent. Correct you, know,
obviously like the pageantry around the game and how awesome
it is to be able to play football as a. Profession, like,
yes that you, KNOW i miss that. TOO i missed the,
craft if you want to call it. That but the
thing that will always just stay with you, is like you,
(36:45):
said the relationships that you build and the experiences you go,
through the highs and lows of the, season the highs
and lows of you, know everyday life outside of the
facility and being able to just kind of wade through
those waters with these same, guys and, uh you, know
that's that's. Special you, KNOW i think you find that
across any any like corporation In america as you start
(37:10):
to establish relationships with people that you go through these experiences,
with and nothing's different in the inside a football locker,
room but it may be heightened a bit because you're
just in there all day going through all this. Stuff
and and so, YEAH I i you, KNOW i say
it all the. Time i'm Not i'm not ashamed to
SAY i truly love, everything every every guy THAT i played,
(37:34):
with and every coach that coached. Me And i'm just
so thankful for the time that you, KNOW i was
able to, be you, know a part of their. Lives so,
YEAH i definitely miss.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
It you can let us know which opponents maybe you didn't.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Like that's.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Okay NOW i respected. Everybody you, know everybody's playing hard out.
There it's a. Brotherhood, Yeah, NO.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I MEAN i always and LIKE i, said like, YOU i,
MEAN i definitely had respect for my. Opponents you, know
they all have their stories and they're all human beings
at the end of the. Day so, NOW i never
had anybody THAT i hated or hated to. Play it
was it was always, just you, know we're out there
playing a. Game and even if you.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
DID i think the events of the recent last week or,
so and he didn't know about it, beforehand you could
see that it is truly a brotherhood and everybody respects
what you guys are, doing what it is that you
have to, do and it's pretty special to. See it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Special to see one hundred. Percent and like you, said
like one of your first questions about you know, WHAT
i WHAT i realized WHEN i first got to The
patriots or what stood out to me was just like
the human element behind, it because it, was you, know
getting to THE. Nfl you always look at your watching
On sundays as a little, kid and these guys seem
bigger than. Life and you, know you hear About Tom
(38:53):
brady from the TIME i was ten years, old about
how good he, is and you, know winning all These Super,
bowls and now all of a sudd, Sudden i'm in
the same room as him as a as a, peer
AND i, realized, like this guy's just another human. Being
and SO i, think like you, said this past week
really like humanizes the game of football a little, bit
realizes like under these helmets and under these pads and
(39:15):
jerseys and you, know out on the, field there's just
twenty two human beings that all have different, stories and
they all have different experiences and things that they can
bring to the game and to the. World and, yeah
when you peel all the all the layers of the onion, back,
like we're all just human beings at the end of the.
Day and that's that's the beautiful part of the game of,
(39:36):
football you, know it's it's real life human drama on
the field and off the.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Field so fantastic. Stuff, james really appreciate your. Time best
wishes for the smoothie and the uh thank you a
Ashy bowl business and we can help promote that and
get into A patriot. Place we're happy to do, so.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Right, well, yeah looking forward to it Many Jersey. Shore
let me know And i'll a.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Bow.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
First, yeah, well no surprise THAT i butchered, That, james
thanks a, lot, Man appreciate your. Time have a great,
one all.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Right thank you.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
For downloading this. Podcast subscribe On, apple Google, play and
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Us listener comments and ratings help keep us high on
the podcast rankings so new listeners can find. Us be
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Podcasts
It's time now for another episode of Patch from the
Past podcast Matt Smith along with Paul Perillo, and we're
pleased to be joined by number forty six on your scorecard,
but number one in our hearts, at least for today, right. Well,
and that's James Devil, who joins us all the way
from the Jersey Shore. James, how you doing. Nice to
see you guys. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I
(00:27):
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Are you getting some of that Jim tan laundry thing.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Going, Yeah, a little bit, although there's not much tanning
going on right now.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
No, it's so great here. I can't even believe it.
I don't remember the last time we saw.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
It's been fog. It's been nothing but fog here for
like a week. But it's all good man.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, and I do think, Paul, I don't know if
you ever catch us, but I do think periodically we
still see a little Sulli entire commercial every once in
a blue moon with James on it.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
James is thrilled to hear that.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Please, Tom, you've got a good set of all wheel
tires or something at least out of that.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, mister Sullivan takes care of me. Man,
He's been a great friend. You know, we kind of
established a relationship while I was up there playing, and honestly,
I look up to him now as like like me
and my little entrepreneurial role. You know, he's got a
lot of knowledge and experience in this world. So we're
(01:24):
trying to just you know, keep it fun and keep
it light. And he's been a great partner thus far.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So you mentioned entrepreneurial James, and we ask everybody about this.
Some people are more visible guys who are broadcasting things
like that, like things like that, What is James Devlin
up to these days?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Sure? Yeah, So so upon retirement, I've retired right into
that you know, initial onset of COVID, so things kind
of slowed down a little bit. But honestly, it was
nice for me to kind of like just ease my
way into like you know, being a real adult and
stop playing a child's game professionally. So I did a
(02:01):
lot of soul search in a lot of like what
I wanted to do. My biggest priority these days is
my family. Got four kids now and my wife obviously,
so I'm a huge, huge family man. Try to keep
that to you know, the highest level of importance, but
I wanted to I knew I wanted to kind of
create my own legacy beyond football. I wanted to control
(02:25):
my my time and destinies here. So I decided to
go into this entrepreneurial role. I actually took an entrepreneurial
course through the NFLPA Trust, and that helped kind of
just connect me with with, you know, people that were
local and across the country that could kind of guide
me and what I wanted to do. And ended up
(02:46):
buying a business here on the Jersey Shore called Soulberry.
It's a little coffee smoothie, sa e bowl type place
two blocks off the beach. And so now I'm trying
to expand that that business for more towns on the
Jersey Shore, and then hopefully beyond that. My goal here
in like maybe the next five to ten years is
(03:08):
to have one in Patriot Place. So hopefully you can
get a soul Berry up there.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Maybe we'll have to do a sequel to the Pass
Pass with Jacobs. We'll keep you in the circulation here
for Robert and Jonathan, so we'll get that done. Obviously, James,
your story is one that's been told a lot, you know,
not the most common path of the NFL. But I'm
just curious, you know, in your time at Brown and
your positional moves. You know, when did you think I
(03:37):
can do this, I could be an NFL player. Was
there a time before you actually made it that you
really thought that you could do this?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah? So I always kind of had the self belief, right,
I think that you kind of need that when you're
just embarking on this kind of quest. And like you said,
I was definitely not like a highly talted prospect coming
out of college. I had to kind of scratch up
and claw to find an agent just to represent me,
let alone, you know, get in front of some NFL teams,
(04:06):
and really, I would say I went so after college,
I went and had to try out with the Cleveland Browns.
Didn't even make it to the third day. They had
me at three four outside linebacker. I was I was
a mess. And then after that I played in an arena football.
Then I played in the UFL and that's when I
made the switch to fullback, and I'd say that's when
(04:27):
I really felt like, hey, I can do something here.
Because I was playing I was one of two, like
you know, true rookies on the team and all the
other guys I'd say ninety five percent of the roster
were x NFL guys. So it kind of gave me
like the first like barometer to measure myself against. And
(04:48):
so when I earned it started position and I was
like making some nice plays out there. That's when I
really felt like, hey, I can do this. I just
need the right opportunity. And then you know, practice squads
and stuff like that. Three years later, I was, you know,
starting for the Pats, So it all kind of that's
when it really like that was my jump off point.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I don't know that Paul and I can sit here.
I know we can't sit here.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And what's it like to be in.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
An ivy League school? But did you you know, was
this dream something that you were dreaming of what you
were Brown? Did you get made fun of? Did you say, oh, please,
come on, you're gonna end up doing you know, be
a lawyer, you'll be a doctor. You know, that's why
you come to Brown. And conversely, did you also hear
it when you're in the UFL? You know, hey, ivy
you know, did you get stuck with a nickname or
(05:33):
was there any kind of stigmatism to IVY League guys
don't make it to the NFL, what you know, maybe
in their training staff or something like that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, so I'd say, first and foremost being at Brown,
I mean there was there was definitely doubters because, like
you said, they're not not every day you know, guys
come out of the football powerhouse that is Brown University,
let alone the entire IVY League. But you know, I
was experienced. I had a year on the team with
Zach Tiassi and he was drafted to the Giants as
(06:04):
a linebacker then ended up having a thirteen year career
as a long snapper. But I knew it was possible,
and that's kind of all I needed to hear. The rest.
It was kind of up to me, So I yeah,
there was doubters. Yeah, there was times when you know,
guys were going out partying and I was staying back
because I wanted to wake up early in training, and
you know, they'd be like, oh, you're not making it
to the NFL, like just come out, and I'm like, no,
(06:27):
I got I got bigger aspirations, I got dreams I
got to like kind of take care of. So there
was definitely those kind of moments, But to say I
got picked on, I wouldn't say that. And then once
I got to the UFL. Once I got to the UFL,
everyone was kind of in the same boat. We were
all there with a purpose to try to get exposure
(06:47):
to get back in the NFL. So there was absolutely
no you know, naysayan or anything like that. Everyone kind
of had a story. I mean, there was kind of
NFL cast offs that were trying to regain their reputations
and nobody, nobody was higher or lower than anyone in
that in that organization. That's something that you know, always
kind of stuck with me because everyone was humbled. Everybody
(07:09):
was humbled to be there. Although it was a great
opportunity and we were getting compensated and all that stuff, Like,
everyone had a humbling journey to get on that roster.
And uh so it was a it was a great
learning experience experience, and that is a I don't know
what I was twenty one, twenty two year old kid.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Probably a portraits of words. Paul I should have said,
busted his balls maybe then that yeah, thing like that.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely definitely got my balls busted.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Just what was the first impression here. You know, you
you get in here what was probably what twenty twelve, Yes,
and you know you're sort of your your first interactions
with Bill Belichick, Tom Brady. I mean, obviously it's an
organization that had done a lot of winning and here
you are trying to find your way as an NFL player,
(07:59):
let alone, you know, make it into a role. What
was it first like for you your first impressions?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, so it was it was everything I was looking
for in a football team. That the the respect, the accountability,
you know, the kind of I could you could say strictness,
but it's it's more than that. It's kind of just
like that. That level of respect that you have for
your teammates, your coaches, the game itself, and your approach
(08:28):
to that game. That that is what I what stood
out to me because coming through the UFL and and
then my first year and a half with Cincinnati on
their practice squad, it wasn't it wasn't like that, but uh,
I always cherished the types of organizations where you know,
the head coach was like a guy that was almost
(08:49):
like a father type figure, and I never wanted to
like let him down. So I had that at Brown
coach Justice was was a like a very like brute,
just like you did not want to let him down.
You didn't want to disappoint him. And so that's what
I always loved about playing with it for him, and
then with Bill, it was the same kind of thing,
the respect that he had being Bill Belichick and all that.
(09:11):
I never wanted to let him down, you know. I
wanted to just do everything to try to be the
best player I could be, for him, for my teammates,
for my other coaches, the whole organization. So that level
of respect just really stood out to me, I mean,
and then just the humility of the guys and the
lack of ego, you know, coming in and seeing, holy shit,
(09:33):
this is Bill Belichick. I'm talking to her. This is
Tom Brady, the you know, the greatest. At that point,
he was already on his way to becoming the greatest
quarterback of all time, and now he is. And it's
just like wow, Like these guys are are you know,
humble enough and human enough to like just kind of
sit down and talk to me and you know, say
what's up in the in the cafeteria and just sit
(09:56):
down and like have a regular conversation, that level of
of just humility around across the across the organization really
stood out.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Bill often says, or the coaches and players say, James,
that you know, for new people, draft picks, undrafted free agents,
people like that, the best route to make the team
and to make an impact is on special teams. And
would you agree with that in is there a moment
where you can remember, you know, on teams that you
(10:25):
know you were able to maybe stack some things together
to get them to you know, notice you and say, hey,
this is somebody that we should that we think we
should consider keeping to work with.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Sure. Yeah, so that's exactly That's exactly how how it
came for me. I mean my first year on twenty twelve,
I was on a practice squad. They brought me up
for four games. I played in one game Sunday night
against the against San Francisco forty nine ers, and all
I did was special teams. I didn't play one offensive snap.
(10:56):
We lost that game. It was raining, uh raw and.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Hold I remember the yea yeah, yeah, interesting game. For
the first game, it felt, I think we fell behind
like thirty one to three or something like that, came
back and then we ended up losing.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, we came back and we were kind of mounting
the comeback a little bit, and late in the fourth
quarter they were punting and Wes Welker was our apartment
turn at the time, called it like the ten u
took it back for like maybe fifteen or so yards
and I got called for a holding against Navarro bowmen.
And I remember feeling like this big coming off the sideline,
(11:31):
like not trying to make eye contact with Scott O'Brien,
our special teams coordinated at the time and Bill and
all that, just like trying to shrink down. But you know,
like I learned a lot from that experience. And then
the following year, so twenty thirteen, go through training camp,
I'm kind of solidifying myself on the offense. But the
first play of the entire season, my entire like season
(11:54):
as a real NFL starter, our opening kickoff. We were
in Buffalo and we ran this little thing. It's kind
of back when we had the wedge and I was
one of like the off men off the wedge and
I and I kind of trapped behind the wedge guys
and hit the L two and absolutely just demolished them.
(12:15):
And that that moment. I was like, that is like
kind of putting a stamp on who I am. I
like to be physical, and I just I was like
the electricity I felt in my body when I made
that hit and then came off on the sideline, I
mean I could have like lit up the entire stadium.
It was. It was unreal. So that that moment, and
(12:36):
then that was one of the first clips that Bill
played that following Monday, and I was like, yeah, I
think I you know, showed everybody who I was and
what I could do.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I was just going to ask you, did you get
an added boy for that? Where you you know, and
what's that like, you know, on the positive end of it,
because I'm sure it happens on the other end everybody,
But what's it like in the other when you get
that like, hey, this is what we're trying to do
here an awesome feeling?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, it was. It was a culmination of a lot
of a lot of experiences, both bad and good, on
on the on the journey to that point, you know,
I mean there was like some there was definitely some
bright days, but there was also some dark days. And
so having that type of moment where like you finally
just kind of like erupt on some on somebody and
(13:25):
like you're You've made it. I mean it was. It
was a wild experience and one that I'll always remember, man,
And that's that that type of that type of fight
and desire for something and then finally obtaining it like
that continues to drive me to this day. So I'll
be it. Off the football field, I still I still
(13:46):
kind of associate everything to you know, how I approached
the game of football and now I'm trying to do
it in a different business. But uh yeah, it all
kind of it all kind of works the same.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So now you're going to the sidelines and you make
an icon with anybody whill look back at you, right, yeah,
so different different. So I remember, you know, and mostly
because of Andy Andy Hart, who absolutely he was a
full back in high school in a college and played
and he absolutely loved the old school full back that
was James Devlin. So I remember a thirty one yard
(14:18):
catch in the thirteen season, you know, I mean most
of your work was down around the goal line. If
you ever got the ball in your hands, it's you know,
one yard touchdown runs and things like that. But do
you remember that thirty one yard. I think it was
in that season, that thirteen season.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, it was twenty thirteen. Yes, when they when they
realized I wasn't I wasn't any fast at all. So
but yeah, I ran a little wheel route up the
right sideline on Barkhevius Mingo who later becamemate and went
up for it with two hands, but I actually only
caught it with one, brought it down and then I
(14:52):
forget his first name, his last name was Ward, but
he was a safety tackle me bounced my head off
the ground slightly, slightly, cancut still the play, but then
came back to play and my first play was was
a wham on their de tackle. So you know, I
was all right.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
You know, Paul mentions, you know, Andy and fullback. But
it is a it's kind of a small fraternity these days, James,
one that I'm sure that you're proud of being a
part of. But you know, when you look around the league,
I don't know if you watch how much you watch
or anything like that, are you surprised? You know, I
guess that the the the amount or the lack of
(15:29):
the amount of fullbacks that are in the National Football
League today.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, so that's always kind of been the moniker, right,
is like the fullback is kind of getting phased out
and it's becoming like a dinosaur I've heard used a lot.
But it's funny because I feel like, you know, you
see successful teams and especially this time of year when
when defenses are a little beat up and the teams
that can run the ball, they really like start to
(15:55):
establish an identity this time of year, and most of
those teams have fullbacks, you know, I mean, look at
the forty nine ers. My guy Juice check Is is
one of the best. I mean, he's a Harvard guy,
so kind of got to like, you know, knock him
for that a little bit, but he's he's a great
fullback for them. A little bit different style, you know,
(16:16):
he like he gets he uses his body perfectly in
their scheme. You know, not much not so much of
like a downhill guy. But like there's there's fullbacks like
making a difference. I mean, Yakub Johnson in in uh
in Las Vegas, I mean the guy the guy has
having a great year. Jacobs is having a great year
behind him. So there's definitely examples of the fullback position
(16:40):
still being utilized in a in a very good way.
And so I'll always kind of like, you know, keep
an eye out for those guys and root for him
because I think a fullback is very useful. It's getting
more useful as it's getting less used, I think because
defenses aren't as aware of how to fit two back
(17:02):
runs as much anymore. And see, I get I get real,
I get real like advanced in my in my thought
process sometimes. But I feel like as the NFL kind
of continues to go down this route where maybe fullbacks
aren't being used, I think it starts to change the
landscape of how defense is being played, and it might
(17:25):
end up becoming more susceptible to actually run these two
back runs in like the old school style, you know,
thirty five runs a game, so you could see like
a resurgence coming back, you know. I think I think
what Tennessee has been doing with Henry Is is kind
of a little example of that. And uh, and you're
seeing examples, you know, across the league sometimes.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, And just as a real quick aside, John Hannah,
you know, Hall of Fame offensive guard and you know,
probably second or third greatest player in this team's history. Yeah,
said exactly what you've said. You know, it's probably going
back ten years. But he talked about sort of the
influx of the spread passing games and the smaller linebackers
and the speed emphasis on defense. He said, it's all
(18:10):
going to come full circle. Teams, the smart teams are
gonna come back. They're going to load up with two
tight ends, fullbacks, and they're going to pound away at
these smaller defenses. And you look at Baltimore and you know,
Matt and I talked about this before the podcast, that
they kid recard is it's like a defensive tackle playing fullback.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Three pounds is the tackle. Yeah, he plays both ways.
He plays the tackle on fullback, does a great job
at both too. And you're exactly right. I'm sorry to
cut you off, but I think I think the game
of football is like kind of a microcosm of life.
And I feel like life is a little bit cicklic
Things kind of happen and then everybody reacts to that,
(18:48):
and then you realize that, all right, Well, now like
the next cycle is like the reaction to that reaction.
And so I think I think football is the same.
You know, I thinks, like you said, defense is getting
smaller defenses not really being aware of I mean, how
many colleges run full back right now? How many defenses
are playing you know, you know, traditional two back runs
(19:10):
in college. And then once these guys get to the NFL,
you know, they're not seeing much as well. So I
think there there could be a little chink in the
armor here down the road.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
James, as you described that is, is that you think
a good way maybe to describe what happened with you
guys at the end of the eighteen season because you
lost to Miami, you lost to Pittsburgh, and you know,
I don't know if there was a hey, what is
it that we do well here, Let's see if we
can get back to that. And you guys went to
(19:41):
a power running game, and that power running game took
you all the way to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, you know, I think there was there was a
little bit of that each season. I felt like late
in the year it's always nice to be able to
kind of hang your hat on the run game because
after you know, sixteen game season at that time, now seventeen,
people are beat up. You know, nobody wants to you know,
stick their face in the fin you know, twenty thirty
times a game, and so if you can kind of
(20:09):
like establish yourself as a as a quality running team
the end at the end of the season, it always
kind of slows the game down. It's like nice and
methodical and it really opens up the playbook offensively. So
we always kind of try to do that. But yeah,
i'd say twenty eighteen was the was the greatest example
(20:29):
of that. I mean, I think we we really like
we were challenged honestly when we lost to up to Pittsburgh.
You know, our coach has challenged us to like, you know,
who are we going to be? And we had some
guys that were like road graders at the time, and
so we all just kind of like really got back
to work and like I said, like through that ego
(20:51):
out the window and just said like, look, we're gonna
we're gonna make the most of our opportunities. And yeah,
we had a we had great success running the ball.
That was that was some of my favorite football you know,
it's just having my daughter at the time and that Yeah,
that playoff run in twenty eighteen was was special.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
So that Kansas City game in particular is one that
Matt and I and a lot of us around here
talk about you know, we've both been here over twenty years,
so we've been lucky enough to be part of a
lot of wins. Yeah, and when we're asked which one
stands out, you know, obviously Super Bowls are more important
than AFC championship games, but I think you'd be hard
pressed to top just in terms of sheer skill on
(21:32):
both sides of the ball. That game in Kansas City.
What do you remember about it? And you know, just
kind of the atmosphere and everything that went into it. It
was probably one of the landmark wins for you guys,
no question.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, thinking back of my football career,
even from you know, the start and when I was
seven years old till I retired in twenty twenty, that
stands out as the as my favorite football game I've
ever played in. And it could, honestly like it gives
me chills, Like if I didn't know the sweatshirt on
(22:04):
it show my forums a goosebump right now. It almost
brings a tear to my eye honestly, because it was
like it was just it was it was like the
perfect team against the world environment. First of all, Kansas
City is a great place to play football. And when
we were walked in there, like you could just feel
(22:25):
how much we like, no one wanted us to be there, right,
so it was us like the forty six guys on
the field, plus you know, all the help we have
on the sideline. So call it like seventy to eighty people.
It was like us against you know, close to ninety thousand.
And this way we started the game like running the ball. Well,
(22:48):
I think we ran lead on the first play, Sony
broke it for like thirteen or something like that, and
then you know, and then it was the goal line
run bang, We score a goal line run bang, score,
and it was everything was kind of like you know,
just building and building and building, and we knew that
they were going to break at some point defensively if
(23:09):
we just kind of kept just you know, kept the
punches coming and h and then finally, yeah, it kind
of did. And then they fought back and that whole
like that just like EBB and flow of the game
and then you know, going into overtime and geez, like
all the third downs that we converted, I mean, like
(23:29):
it is like lighting me up right now just thinking
about it. And then the final play is one of
my favorites of all time. And you know, standing over Rex,
you know as he was in the end zone is
like one of my favorite football memories. Yeah, it was
that was that was truly a special one. And just
the feeling of like brotherhood that we had, like after
(23:49):
we won that, and like running off the field and
just the exuberance like among like the misery of all
the fans and the other team. It was like just
it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So I do have one email question here from sure
from young Andy who always wanted to ask you if
you felt bad that Sony got all the credit for
that that ground and pound attack and it wasn't you
getting the credit for it? No?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
No, because that's my role, man, Like that's and that
I think every fullback would say that across the league.
Who's really ever played is you don't really play the
fullback position for the limelight, you know. Like I was
very happy just kind of in my role, you know,
quietly just going out there and doing my job. And
you know it, I loved I you know, I love Sony.
(24:39):
You know I love that that playoff run. I love
all the guys that that I played with, man and
and so I don't have any animosity towards any of that.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know, you talk about how it felt when you're
walking in and everything like that. Did the cold you know,
did you do you remember how cold it was that day?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I was pretty cold. That was the cold one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
But does are you conditioned and trained to the point
James where that's not really a factor, especially as you
get going and you talked about right out of the
shoot you know, bam, you hit him with the run.
You went right down the field and scored, ran it in,
went right down the field again, I think, and could
have scored. Didn't Tom throw a pick on the second drive? Right? Yeah,
(25:19):
tremendous time of possession advantage that you guys had as
you're going through. Do you ever do does a cold dissipate?
Do you not even realize what's going on because you're
in the heat of the moment as far as the
game is concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, i'd say whereas about it, we're about
his conditioned to the cold as as anybody in the NFL.
The way that we prepare and the way that we practice,
you know, outside no matter what it is out there,
we're we're out there in it, and I was always
kind of, you know, one of those tough guys that
wouldn't wear his sleeves of practice, never wear a sleeve
in a game. And I kind of like reveled that
(25:55):
a little bit. And you'd feel the cold like one
hundred percent, especially on the sideline. But then we have
like the heated benches and the and the you know,
the blowers over there, so like there's ways around it
once once you're out on the field. Honestly, the worst
part is like timeouts, when you're just kind of standing
in the huddle and like the winds hitting you en
(26:16):
you know, you got nothing to protect you. But once
that ball snap, man, like there's you don't have you
don't have time to think about how cold it is.
And so that's then like I guess maybe the advantage becomes,
you know, more apparent when like, you know, that ball
snapped and it's just like, you know, it's football. You know,
we don't have time to worry about if it's fifteen
(26:37):
degrees versus seventy five.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
So you mentioned the euphoria in the end zone and
one of the great moments of your career, and I
think we can all remember you know, guys throwing their
helmets off, Andrews lifting Brady, you know, everybody just you
know the joy of winning that game. But at what
point in time do you need to flip the switch
and say this is you know, we've got one more
(27:02):
left and it would be a shame for all that
we've accomplished. Going into Kansas City, nobody thought we could
do it. We went in and beat the Chiefs. We
got to now close a deal.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, it was immediate. I mean I remember, I remember everyone,
almost everybody I hugged, and I can remember vividly, like
hugging Tom and the first words I heard from his
mouth where we got one more. And that's everyone was
saying that. Everybody knew, I mean in the excitement of
the moment, everybody also knew that, like, you know, we
(27:33):
didn't fight all this or do all this work throughout
the season and and fight to get to this point,
like we we wanted to be here, but there's also
more to be had. So that was always something that
you know, I feel like we were always always aware of.
As you know, the work wasn't done until really the
work first or second weekend in February when.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
We talk about all these different things and they see
how fired up you still get about some of these blocks.
These you know, you're talking about lead and you know
they having a wham. Was there a guy that you
went against that particularly stood out to you was toughest
to block?
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Yeah, I'd say, I know. I mean, I tell everybody
who asked this, Landon Roberts in practice was the toughest
guy for me because I'd say, like generally speaking, I'm
I'm like a taller ish fullback, you know, like six',
Three SO i had kind of lose a lot of
like natural leverage that like a six foot and maybe
(28:33):
under guy would. Have But landin's like maybe five, eleven you,
know maybe six foot right on the. Roster but, uh
that dude also just had LIKE i, mean he was
like in practice the first day, pads everybody knew we'd
get to nine on seven and the first play would
be lead and it'd be me on me Versus, landen
(28:56):
and it was just like a like a car accident every,
time you, know it was just. Wild and so that
guy just with his natural leverage and his like ability
to just thump and have like little to no regard
for his, body he was always a tough guy to.
Block otherwise then it was like you, know d. TACKLES
i remember the first TIME i had a wham On
(29:18):
Vince wilfork AND i felt LIKE i was throwing my
body into a brick. Wall that dude did not move at.
All and then, obviously you, know first play of the
Last Super bowl there against The rams hitting In dominican
su and, like you, know that was a very similar.
Feeling so, yeah there was definitely some big BOYS i
(29:39):
had to go up, against But landed, man it was
just like every TIME i had to like strap up
extra tight because this dude was was just coming and you,
KNOW i definitely wasn't backing a way. Either so it
was just just gnarly hits every.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Year AND i don't know if it's the same as a,
fullback but those downhill linebackers run stopping, linebackers they're not
in great abundance. Nowadays everybody wants to sideline to sideline.
Guy you, know everybody wants a guy that's got all the,
speed can cover a back out of the, backfield can
maybe get drop into his zone and cover a wide.
Receiver So, ROBERTS i think another guy who's really formed
(30:16):
a nice little career for himself at a position THAT
i don't know if it's, extinct but you, know people
kind of going away from to your point that you
made earlier with all the spread and everything like.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
That, YEAH i completely, agree. MAN i, mean now it's
all about versatility and being able to run and play
the run and play the pass all this, stuff AND
i mean just, wait you, KNOW i think we'll see
things come back around and then you, know linebackers will
be two fifty two fifty, five two sixty, again and you,
(30:46):
know we're gonna have to start packing a box up,
because like you, said two tight ends and a, fullback let's.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Go did you have you, know, teams you, know a
particular rivalry that you, know you got a LITTLE x
juiced up. For what were the teams that that had
a little bit more motivation to play? Against?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah so early, On, Uh i'd say The. Broncos they
were always tough. Games when When peyton was there and
playing out In, BUFFALO i felt like we always had
to play them out, there except for that. ONE i
think they may have Been monday night when they came
out and that was a real cold. One and, uh
and we came back from like twenty eight down or
(31:27):
something at. Halftime but, anyways uh, yeah The broncos were
were always a good. One The steelers were always a good.
One The colts were always always a good. Fight and then,
obviously you, know like our divisional rivals were were always.
Tough you, know it didn't matter what they're or what they're,
uh what their their standings. Were it was just we
(31:50):
knew each other so. Well it was like you, know
fighting your, Brother so it was there were always. Tough The,
jets The, dolphins and the and The. Bill The bill
is obviously, yeah so those one are roway.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Stuff when you're sitting there In South jersey on the,
shore you're trying to start this. Business you've got this
business plan in your. Mind you're thinking, about you, know
five years down the, road maybe ten years down the.
Road how, Often, james do you sort of catch yourself
or is it brought to your attention or anything like
that that you're a three times Super bowl.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
CHAMPION i, mean i'd say that the Super bowl champion
thing doesn't come. Up but WHERE i thought you were,
Going and WHAT i do want to say here, is uh,
is While i'm on this, journey, right this entrepreneurial journey
in my life after. Football i'm big about like this
whole like growth, mindset trying to get better every single
day at What i'm, doing even THOUGH i, mean, Shit
(32:48):
i'm not Gonna i'm not gonna bullshit. Here there's days
WHERE i Know I'm i'm, LIKE i have no idea
What i'm. Doing i'm just out. Here i'm out here
trying to way through the. Water But i'll tell you
it's like. Clockwork almost every single Day i'm reminded of
something that the game of football taught. Me And i'm
(33:08):
particularly reminded of something That Bill, belichick you, know was
like one of his, staples and this like the wisdom
THAT i THAT i took in for my eight years
In New. ENGLAND i mean it was like reading like
every masterclass book and everything about self, help like the
(33:30):
the guy just like exuberates this wisdom that like WHILE
i was, PLAYING i was picking it. Up but MAYBE
i wasn't like, registered MAYBE i wasn't mature enough at
the point to really like let it resonate with. Me
but now it's LIKE i realize so much and there's
like these things that were about football but THEN i
translate them to business and or things just about. Life
(33:53):
and that's really been standing out to me AND i
And i've Told bill that to his, face just, like
how much like the these lessons come up and in
my life beyond, football and how MUCH i, appreciate you,
know the time and the wisdom that he that he.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Gave do you have much interaction with you, know your former.
TEAMMATES i, mean it's clear listening to you how much
you miss. IT i mean just the entirety of. It
but how much interaction do you still have with the? Guys?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
YEAH i mean obviously living down here In, jersey there's
not a ton of other guys that are down, Here
BUT i still keep in contact with with some guys
on the team. Still you Know David, Andrews, Slate dev,
mccordy guys like. That and then you know guys that
have moved on as, well you Know, Julian Danny, mendola you,
Know Dwayne, allen guys like, that and then some guys
(34:43):
from like the equipment staff that will always be just
like dear, Friends like DO i miss the?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Game?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Absolutely DO i miss? Those there's like bonds THAT i
THAT i created in the locker. Room, Yes and the
and the sad part, is, like you, know for eight
years was able to interact with these guys on a
daily basis like, family and now it's LIKE i got
to set, up you, know a, call and Like dwayne
(35:09):
lives In San, francisco and now there's like the time
difference And i'm calling. Him he's with his, son And i'm,
like you, know it's just like all these you, know mix,
ups but we still keep in, contact and, like you,
know one of my favorite Conversations i've had in the
in the last month was With. Jewels you, know the
guy's busy as, hell traveling FROM la to back To
(35:31):
New york and all this, stuff but he still found
found time to you, know sit down to kind of
shoot the ship with. Me and so it, was you,
know we just went went through a lot in those eight.
Years you, KNOW i was newly, married had had three
of my four kids at the, time and you, know
he had his, daughter and you, know all these guys
were going through all these life experiences together and that
(35:52):
just doesn't get thrown out the window when we're done
playing the, game you. Know so, yeah there's definitely good
relationships That i'll all be cherish from my time with The.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Pats do you find that, Constant, james when you're talking
to these guys that it's the, relationships you, know and
those are the things that are Never, yeah, sure you
miss being in the locker, room the camaraderie and everything like,
that the plane, rides even maybe the bus, rides the
meetings of the all. Times, no but it's those. Relationships
is that a constant or a theme when you're talking
to other guys that are no longer.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Playing, yeah, YEAH i think that's one hundred percent. Correct you, know,
obviously like the pageantry around the game and how awesome
it is to be able to play football as a. Profession, like,
yes that you, KNOW i miss that. TOO i missed the,
craft if you want to call it. That but the
thing that will always just stay with you, is like you,
(36:45):
said the relationships that you build and the experiences you go,
through the highs and lows of the, season the highs
and lows of you, know everyday life outside of the
facility and being able to just kind of wade through
those waters with these same, guys and, uh you, know
that's that's. Special you, KNOW i think you find that
across any any like corporation In america as you start
(37:10):
to establish relationships with people that you go through these experiences,
with and nothing's different in the inside a football locker,
room but it may be heightened a bit because you're
just in there all day going through all this. Stuff
and and so, YEAH I i you, KNOW i say
it all the. Time i'm Not i'm not ashamed to
SAY i truly love, everything every every guy THAT i played,
(37:34):
with and every coach that coached. Me And i'm just
so thankful for the time that you, KNOW i was
able to, be you, know a part of their. Lives so,
YEAH i definitely miss.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
It you can let us know which opponents maybe you didn't.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Like that's.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Okay NOW i respected. Everybody you, know everybody's playing hard out.
There it's a. Brotherhood, Yeah, NO.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I MEAN i always and LIKE i, said like, YOU i,
MEAN i definitely had respect for my. Opponents you, know
they all have their stories and they're all human beings
at the end of the. Day so, NOW i never
had anybody THAT i hated or hated to. Play it
was it was always, just you, know we're out there
playing a. Game and even if you.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
DID i think the events of the recent last week or,
so and he didn't know about it, beforehand you could
see that it is truly a brotherhood and everybody respects
what you guys are, doing what it is that you
have to, do and it's pretty special to. See it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Special to see one hundred. Percent and like you, said
like one of your first questions about you know, WHAT
i WHAT i realized WHEN i first got to The
patriots or what stood out to me was just like
the human element behind, it because it, was you, know
getting to THE. Nfl you always look at your watching
On sundays as a little, kid and these guys seem
bigger than. Life and you, know you hear About Tom
(38:53):
brady from the TIME i was ten years, old about
how good he, is and you, know winning all These Super,
bowls and now all of a sudd, Sudden i'm in
the same room as him as a as a, peer
AND i, realized, like this guy's just another human. Being
and SO i, think like you, said this past week
really like humanizes the game of football a little, bit
realizes like under these helmets and under these pads and
(39:15):
jerseys and you, know out on the, field there's just
twenty two human beings that all have different, stories and
they all have different experiences and things that they can
bring to the game and to the. World and, yeah
when you peel all the all the layers of the onion, back,
like we're all just human beings at the end of the.
Day and that's that's the beautiful part of the game of,
(39:36):
football you, know it's it's real life human drama on
the field and off the.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Field so fantastic. Stuff, james really appreciate your. Time best
wishes for the smoothie and the uh thank you a
Ashy bowl business and we can help promote that and
get into A patriot. Place we're happy to do, so.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Right, well, yeah looking forward to it Many Jersey. Shore
let me know And i'll a.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Bow.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
First, yeah, well no surprise THAT i butchered, That, james
thanks a, lot, Man appreciate your. Time have a great,
one all.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Right thank you.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
For downloading this. Podcast subscribe On, apple Google, play and
everywhere else you. Listen like the, Show please rate and review.
Us listener comments and ratings help keep us high on
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