May 17, 2023 • 41 mins
Tune-in for our conversation with former Patriots GM Scott Pioli. This is one of a two part interview. Among the highlights include: Scott discussing his very humble beginnings to a multiple executive of the year award winner, how he was affected by the curse of success, his unique insights into the last back-to-back Super Bowl champions and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, it's time for another episode of Pats from the
Past podcast Matt Smith with Paul Pirello and we're pleased
to be joined by former Patriots personnel chief GM Scott.
I know we don't get hung up on title. Scott
Poli is here.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
No, we don't get hung up on titles at all.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Footballs are right, Thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is great.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're really looking forward to it. I think listeners who
know a little bit about Scott Pioli and his tremendous
success that he's had here in New England would be
interested to know that there's a history between Scott Pioli
and Paul Pirillo.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Right out of the shoots.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Right out of the shoots, let's estabh Scott.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Piole is a professional ballbuster, a little Andy Hart esque,
So our listeners know Andy Hart and his personality.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Scott's got a little of that in US.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Okay, so saves the guy from love to bring up
all right, you know, a group interview with the combo
in India in front of every single guy who's ever
covered the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Right, So if you would, Paul and Scott, let's let
fans know where this history lies. I.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
So I'll tell you that one of my very very
best friends growing up lived three or four houses down
for me, is a guy named Paul Karamanica and absolutely
tremendous athlete, was by far the best athlete in our
little area of Everett. And as you know, Matt, you know,
more than you could tell everybody ever dominates.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I can say he's one of the better athletes that
came out of Everett. It's like saying, you know, came
out of you know, no disrespect Sharon, right, you know.
So Paul was a very very good football player, but
a little on the small side. He ended up playing
at Central Connecticut State, where he became teammates with none
other than Scott Pioli, who's sitting right now to my right. So,
(01:50):
I when I was growing up, I lived in a
house that we owned a barroom, and we owned a
little restaurant bar downstairs. It was in my family for
seventy five years, you know, so obviously long before I
was ever around, and there was maybe some drinking that
went on, you know, down down there, and I apologe
yours and Scott Peoli was you know, lucky enough to
(02:14):
frequent that establishment with Paul because they were really really
good friends in college and we were roommates.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I actually lived with three guys from Everett. That's what
brings us back.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, and you know, again, you know, everyt a little
bit a little different than most.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We do things a little different. Uh.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So long story short, We'll go to i'd say roughly
nineteen eighty eight ish, uh.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
And Scott and Paul are at Beehive Stadium. It was
called on a New Britain, Connecticut. Right, We're playing home
of the brit Socks and Britain Red Sox. And I
was pitching for Boston University at the time. So Paul,
Paul was all excited. He's like, yeah, you know, my my,
my buddy. You know he's going to be pitching today.
So Scott, Paul, they're all out there, if I imagine,
(02:57):
with a Keg and Ralph Marshall from Everett all so
John Lee from John Lee, who I actually played Little
league baseball with.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, I lived with those three guys. I lived with
the three Evert boys. They were known as unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
So again I won't dare bore everybody with the details,
but I gave up a home run that may not
have stopped traveling yet.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well that's what Scott says. I believe it went off
the Marlboro Man center.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It was back in the day when they could have
like the Marlboro Man think, I mean, think about this
is the I think it was eighty seven actually, and
and there was you know, you could go with eighty seven.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
That was my freshman ye I wasn't quite ready yet
and hadn't developed.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And there was this giant Marlboro Man you know on
the horse in centera that went way up above the
and it might have hit the Marlboro it might have.
So so we're so fired up. It was like we
didn't care. We were we were, and we were.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Like and you know a little bit about bu baseball.
We were Division one and name only. We were overmatched
in most games that we played against Division one teams.
In Central Connecticut was very good in baseball at the time.
So it was like I was, you know, didn't belong.
You know, it was a they're like twenty nine and six, right,
they were very very good, good, very good program. And
we'll fast forward about twenty years. Scott comes here, you know,
(04:11):
with with Bill, you know, in two thousand and so
we you know, sort of catch up. Yeah, yeah, no,
I remember, I remember. And you know, because like if
you knew Paul, like Paul Karmanica's father was best friends
with uncle Jeb.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Bob, that tells you. That tells you what.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Okay, So actually Scott and I used to do a
lot of speaking engagements for Bob Karamanica back.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
In the day.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
But uh so twenty years go by and Scott and
I catch up a little bit, and you know, the
years go by here and obviously, you know, once we
have that introduction that Scott I was on the paid
on mind list after that, right, even though I worked
for the team, I was part of the media, So
Scott couldn't attend that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You know, oh he's actually a good guy, you know, Bill,
you know you could you could tell that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I knew I was at least cordial, right and friendly,
would give you the hug.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And so so we go to the combine one, Andy
Hart and you're there, and you know it's the Globe Herald,
pro Joe, NBC Sports, Boston Nest.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean, like every.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Single outlet, every single outlet in New England covering the
Patriots is there. And this big scrum around Scott and
I come walking over and he just interrupts everything.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
He goes, hey, long ball, Paul, and everybody's like, oh,
I have to hear this story. And that's basically the
long and short of That's great, but no professional ball
busting nature.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But now listen, he's putting the chop busting on me
right now talking about anyone who's from Everett. I mean,
part of me becoming that way was because I lived
with three these guys, you know, and that's that's all
they did up there. Was it was it the Crimson Tavern.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Crimson Tavern, Crimson Tavern at the time that you would
have been there. We had many many names, but that's
probably what it was. I remember there was there was
a dart board right there wasn't much to do. I
think there was a pucks like shuffle board and a
dark board and you know, I got to play goalie
my first night there.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's great, that's great. So Scott, thank you again for
coming here into Foxborough. Let's catch people up, Patriots fans,
to know what are you up to these days? I
know people you know, they see you on NFL networks
sometimes and everything like that. Tell people what you're up
to these days, and how do you like it?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A lot of things. I'm gonna give a long list
of things. So my full time gig is with the
NFL Network. So I do work for NFL Network on air.
We live back up in the area and so I
do ninety percent of the work from home from my
home office, which is fantastic. But I also do work
for CBS Sports and CBS HQ and CBS News, and
(06:35):
then I do consulting work for the league office. Troy
Vincent has me doing stuff in football operations in the
area of Dee and I and the International player Pathway
stuff with Peter O'Reilly as well, you know, Troy and Roger.
They'd asked me to, you know, with my experience and
my knowledge too, you know, is there stuff that I
could help with? And so I do some of that,
and then I do some side consulting work for about
(06:58):
six college football pros. You know. After I resigned from
the Falcons in twenty nineteen, Nick Saban approached me. I
had Bill, Bill, Nick and I and that large group
from back in Cleveland had all worked together, and Nick
asked me to, you know, without getting into details that
work on this project and meet with some of his
players and advise some of his players on the side
(07:19):
while also evaluating them. So that became a great It's
a side gig that I have that's a consultant work,
but it's great because it also helps me prepare for
the draft. So I get to know these kids. I boote.
You know, I would do some work with with LSU
because BK, Brian Kelly who going born in Effett, born
in Effort. You know he denies what does he say?
(07:39):
He's from Charles down Well, I mean I always I'm like, BK,
come on, man, he's an everage.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Funny you mentioned this because we're working on our draft
profiles right now and we have twelve picks.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That's a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
So it's taken us a little bit. And we all
had three writer so we had four guys each. I
have three of them completely done. The LSU one is
the one that I haven't finished, and the Wide Receive
coach was was recruiting and the sports information director said,
because I might be able to get Brian Kelly for you.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So I actually used that end.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
I said, I said, hey, listen, I said, when you're
talking to him, let him know I grew up in Everett.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
He'll know what that means.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I thought that might give me an end, but now
you're telling me that that's probably why he hasn't called me.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Given a hard so so Brian uh Is, you know
he's one of the I worked with him when he
was at Notre Dame. Now working with the LSU's one
of the schools I work with, So I know you're
your new receiver a little bit. So those are the jobs,
and then I you know, I work for a number
I'm on the board of a number of nonprofits. Uh
the Women's Sports Foundation, Women Leaders in College Sports, Black
(08:40):
College Football Hall of Fame. I'm on the selection committee
and also on the on the board. I'm staying very
very involved in football, but just in a different way.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Right now, it sounds great, Scott, you look great. You've
seem happy, which really looks refreshing. And you know this
the media part of what you're doing as far as
your job our I guess exposure to you. And you
grew up in a system where it's one voice, yes,
and we're not going to have a lot of people talk.
And now you're on the other side of that. You know,
(09:12):
it's kind of has to be very interesting for you
to like, I don't know if people are trying to
probe you, Hey Scott, we want you to be our
information guy or we want your opinion. But that's kind
of an interesting dichotomy to go from something where it's
it's one voice. You might have been the voice, or
we're letting people be the voice in Kansas City and
places like that. How have you dealt with that kind
(09:34):
of what's the word that I want here? You know,
the ability to try to get information or to communicate yourself.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Because I'm seeing it from I've seen it from both sides.
And here's going back. Let's go historically or chronologically. You know,
I absolutely, one hundred percent completely believe in the one
voice concept. I really do. It was that way, you know,
when I started in the NFL with Bill in Cleveland.
It was that way, you know, when I went to
(10:05):
the Jets with Parcels and Belichick, and then it was
that way when we came here. And and the reality is
when I was young, I not only did I believe
in it, I honestly didn't want to do media stuff.
And the simple reason was because I had seen too
often people unintentionally or intentionally say the wrong thing, do
(10:27):
the wrong thing, harm their club, harm the players, you know.
I think people when you're put in a situation, you
asked a question, you want to answer it honestly and
the best you can. But you realize sometimes answering things
honestly can compromise the program. It can compromise you know,
the player's health, a player's you know, ability to compete.
(10:47):
So I always believed in it, and I still believe
in it, and I also think it's funny. I'll share
a little bit of what with with the fans, what
we were talking about off air. You know when I
was asked to do. The funny thing is in all
those years that I didn't do it, And even when
I went to Kansas City, it was very funny. I
was a general manager and I went to a place
(11:08):
where the former general manager, Carl Peterson, he was the face,
the voice of the almost like the owner, had his
own TV show, he had his own radio show, he
had all this stuff. So when I went out there,
this was one of the things I did a really
poor job of thinking about and preparing for. There was
this expectation that I was going to be out there
(11:29):
giving more information, whereas I was from the mindset even
though I was the general manager in charge of hiring
the head coach. My plan was to go out there
hire the head coach, and the head coach was going
to become the voice in the face along with the players.
I was going to just go out there do my job.
My job was to again oversee things, manage things, draft
free agency contracts, you know, all the stuff that I
(11:51):
need to do. But to fade into this because people
don't care about general managers. They don't care about vice
presidents of player personnel. Maybe they do, but they don't.
And so it wasn't something that I wanted to do.
So it fit perfectly with the program that Bill and
I were on while I was here. I didn't want
to do the work, and I remember, you know, it's
funny because Paul and I knew each other, and there
were times and moments I know he was frustrated with
(12:13):
me because we were friends. We had this, but I
also quite honestly didn't want the exposure. Even when we
were having success. It just wasn't my gig. The funny
part is I got my bachelors and my masters from Syracuse,
the New House School in communications. And here, you know,
I knew the industry, you know, from an academic standpoint,
but I didn't know it. And I think the other
(12:36):
part is this, I when I got on the other
side and started doing this, And I'll share what I
told you guys earlier. You know, my thing was this,
if someone wanted to hire me, to have me talk
about my experiences about processes, about systems, about maybe why
people make decisions, or why they make certain draft choices,
or how they build their boards or why you know,
(12:58):
even stuff in seasoning game that I knew about game
planning and coaches and preparation. Great, but I refused, and
I and I told my bosses, I refused to be
a mean person, because you can do this job without
being mean, without being snarky, without being you know, I
think when people get snarky, they're just trying to be
the smartest person in the room.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
I'm pretty snarky times, I have to admit, but I
don't do it on purpose. I do it more in fun,
not like it's everything. It's not cheap shot. It's kind
of like, but that's the fun, Paul.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It's really funny. You say that because I've had to
stop myself because I don't. And when you do it
and you're not necessarily I said, be the smartest guy
in the room. But sometimes you're just trying to be funny, right,
you want to make people laugh. It's kind of like
that locker room thing, chop busting, and so I just
don't want to do that because again, as well as
things went here, I also failed epically. You know, I
(13:52):
got fired. I went through it. I and even when
we were having success, you know, I watched Bill and
his family go through some stuff at different times before
we start having success. I remember the five and eleven season.
I remember the one in three start. I remember what
Bill and his family were going through at the time.
And when when you're in it, you have a different
perception or perspective. I should say, of what words can
(14:17):
what public words can do to people and humanity, and
I'll stop there. But it's just but I love the job,
so I asked, I told him, listen, please allow me
to educate, not speculating. Yeah, don't ask me who's going
to win this week? And I have no idea that
I'm not who's going to win the AFCs East. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's why they play the game.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
And in all seriousness, I know, you know, and I've
teached you about that a lot about like, oh.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You had to pretend that you know me anymore?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
And I do it, and I don't do it as
much with Bearish, but Bearish and I played baseball together,
so we also knew each other.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Again, that's the snark in me which you're talking about.
I understood, and I understood from day one that it's different.
And I know the you know, I don't want to
pressure is probably not the right word, but I know
the pressure from Bill and to make sure that you
are in line.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You don't want to be the reason why it's not
one voice, and then when you're one of the other leaders,
you're keeping other people in total.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I totally understood it. I still understand it to this day.
With pers I always, you know, and Matt and I
talk about it. I and I do say it to
him sometimes, like you know, sometimes I was just saying hello,
you know, like I wasn't, you know, not every time
I talk to somebody, am I looking to find out
what the game plan is that week?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
But believe me, as much grief as I've given you
over the years, from the first day you would hear,
I understood it because I knew if it was real,
you would have been much differently when you And that's
the thing about you know, one of the biggest things
about the Patriot Way is compartmentalizing and compartmentalizing the game,
(15:49):
your life, relationships.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
And it's a blessing and a curse at times, no question,
And and it's sometimes you have to act and behave
in certain ways because you get to you have to
wait on your own scale. Okay, am I you know,
do I walk away from this situation, this circumstance, this person,
(16:12):
it's going to be uncomfortable. I don't feel good about it. However,
I have a responsibility to fifty three people in the
locker room. And it's beyond that, right, it's to how
many employees. There's one hundred other employees here right. Truthfully,
there's a responsibility to you guys, because you're a part
of this team as well. You're a part of this organization.
And you know, the more success that was had on
(16:35):
the field, the better everyone lived. So if you just
always knew that there was a downside. And again, I
think all of us at different times acted and behaved
in ways that we weren't wanting to and or proud of.
But we just knew that, you know. Sometimes you know,
sometimes the modes the roads don't meet. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Here's a life lesson that I want to I want
Fians to know Scott, because I do think it's a
life lesson. It happened to be in the business of
football for you, which is where you got your start.
I don't know. I don't think that you coined the
phrase slappy. I think it's a great word. I don't
know if you can use it. You know, in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Three you can use slappy, you just can't use the
other full term, right, the proper term. Right.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
But but but if.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You would.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Tell people, Patriots fans, you know, it's not like your
dad got you know, knew this person and got you here,
or you know you were a Heisman winning athlete or
anything like that. You came from a very humble background
that I think most people in whatever business they choose
to be in can learn something from how you got
(17:44):
into this business.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, it's gosh, I could I could talk a lot
about this not and not meaning about me, but just
the circumstance and the situation. Yeah, you're right. I you
know my my my father is a blue collar worker.
We didn't know anyone we did. And you know, all
I knew is I love football. I went to Central Connecticut,
which when I went there at the time was Division two.
(18:05):
We kind of moved up to one double A kind
of kind of didn't whatever. I'm not sure we were
in this my last two years. We're in this space.
We don't know what we were. We were playing one
double A schools in Division two schools. And so, you know,
I knew that I was going to go to college
and play football. Found out and realized I wasn't good
enough that I was going to go next. So I
(18:26):
knew that I wanted to coach football. I knew I
wanted to stay in football. I just had this conversation
with this this server waiter last night about he was
talking about academics and he was on a gap year,
and I said, and I was just encouraging him. Listen,
School's not for everyone. And the truth be told, school
was not for me. School was not for the three
Everett boys either. We loved football and It wasn't big
(18:48):
time football, but it was the purpose that we were
in college for. Then we found our other purpose. Then
we realized the importance of an education and the network
that grows from being in that environment and growing up
and finding yourself. And I think, you know, after I
left Central Connecticut a GA job at Syracuse was at
Syracuse's the old line graduate assistant coach under coach McPherson
(19:12):
at the time to Coach Mac. I'm telling you what
one of the most powerful, important and influential people in
my life in those two years. I could go on
and on about Coach Mac and the beautiful things that
he did for people. And he was a tough man,
old town main tough, but you know, a heart of gold.
(19:35):
And then after that, you know, I took a GA.
After the GA job, I took a job at Murray
State University, which was at that time, I think I
was twenty four years old, and it was a full
time one double A job the race Racers back when
it was still called one double A it's now FCS.
And I had my own room. I was going to
be the offensive line coach. Now. The thing was, I
had to take this job and for the first six
(19:56):
months before I got paid the full time salary of
eighteen thousand dollars a year the first six months because
they had fired people and the budgets were much smaller.
I worked month. My monthly salary was three hundred and
eighty four dollars and seventy two cents a month a month,
and which is okay, because of America Kentucky, you could
actually get apartment for two hundred dollars right right. But
(20:19):
it was great. I mean I was down there alone.
I was single, the only single guy on the staff.
So the coach gave me every job that was a
good job and every job that was a bad job.
So I had my own room, offensive line. I was
the liaison with the equipment people in the weight room,
so I had to work on those budgets, so I
was learning things. I was the recruiting coordinator. I was
(20:40):
given the Mississippi Jucos, the Texas Jucos. I had never
been Assissippi, Texas. Those experiences in those places helped me
later on when I'm working in personnel as a scout
and as it goes on, a couple years later, when
Bill got hired at the browns Now backtrack. I had
met Bill, not because of entitlement, not because I just
met Bill through a mutual friend. And when we met,
(21:03):
not getting into the story, he realized how passionate I was.
He and I actually stayed in touch while I was
going through college my last two years, you know, with
letters and an occasional call back when letters were written.
I still got some of these postcards from when Bill
was on vacation. You know. Bill's a writer, you know,
and when he meets people that he will write letters,
he will write postcards, he will write notes. It's one
(21:25):
of the things that I learned and you know, and
still try to follow up with myself because two of
the people who I consider to be tremendous coaches and
didn't lose their way, Bill and Kirk Ference. Kirk Ference
still rates written notes all time. Anyway, we stayed in touch,
(21:45):
and when he got that job, you know, he offered
me a job, and I'll never forget I came up
for the interview, I interviewed, and he comes to me
and says, listen, I don't know what the full job is.
You're going to do everything. If we need you to go,
you know, pick up lunch, you're gonna pick up lunch.
If we need you to go get guys to the
airport or get into a physical he said, we need
(22:06):
you to pad games, you know, tape, watch film it
was still filming, or it was actually just the beginning
of beta tape and whatever you need to do. And
I'll never get He looks at me. Just remember, the
more you can do, the more you can do. And
I sat on that and I was like yeah. And
at the time, he says, I don't know what the salaries.
Do you want the job or not? And I'm like, hell, yeah,
(22:28):
you know, let's do this. And he says, okay, sleep
on it, but let's talk next morning. Come back in
the next morning. And he says, listen, I still don't
know the full job description. I still don't know the title.
I don't know. It gave me the list of things
he didn't know. Is the one thing I do know
is I could pay you sixteen grand. Do you still
want the job? I'm like, yeah, let's go. And this
(22:48):
is nineteen ninety two, now sixteen grand. You know, people say,
oh I was back in nineteen ninety two. Sixteen grand
wasn't very much money then either, and it just that's
what I was making in nineteen ninety two. I know
how little that is right making that, So it's funny.
We just moved full time to Nantucket. That's where we
make our home. Now we make our full time year
on home at our summer home what was our summer home.
(23:10):
And we were unpacking and I came across some things.
I call myself a historian, my wife calls me a
pack rat exactly. And I came across some stuff in
this little Cleveland folder I had, and I had in
there the receipt from the city of Cleveland they used
to give these heat grants where I received five hundred
(23:32):
dollars the winter of nineteen ninety two because I qualified
and we actually I was living in this place. It
was subsidized housing as well. But I mean, that's how
it started. But you know, if you love something, I mean,
you talk about what you start if you love something.
That's one of the greatest lessons my mother and father
taught me. Who two of the hardest working people I've
(23:55):
ever met my life. They didn't love their jobs. They
didn't love what they had to do, you know, and
that was the gift that many of us have.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
You're talking about mentoring Scott and you're talking about running
into a waiter last night or something about and be
passionate about what you're doing. Look at it was simpler
times back in the nineties. Okay, you could get away
with offering somebody almost literally nothing to work a thousand hours.
You don't have to worry about labor laws, human resource departments,
anything like that. But I tell you, I don't know
(24:28):
what you're doing as you're mentoring people. To me, it's
the best. I don't care what the business is. Get in,
figure out a way if you love it, and hopefully
things will work.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Out, and find the people that can help you grow,
learn and evolve. And that was the blessing. Everywhere I
went coach Mac there was a group of people, I
mean some of the coach the coaches that came out
of that group. Our defensive back coach was Randy Edzel.
Clarence Brooks was the defensive line coach, George DeLand was
the offensive line coach. There was a staff there that
was unbelievable. Jim Hoffer was the running backs coach. And
(25:01):
you know, along with that, you know, I get to
my next job there wasn't as much mentoring, but I
was given this overload of work where I just had
to figure it out and fend for myself. And then
when I went to the Cleveland Browns with Bill, you know,
Bill was the head coach, so I spent Yeah, did
(25:21):
I did I have some interaction with him? Yeah, but
I had more of a friendship than a work relationship
with him, right, And but that never showed itself in
the workplace. But one of the things that we had
because what the Browns were trying to do at that
point in time, there was in this old group of
Scouts that were on their way out last couple of years,
so they were infusing the organization with a bunch of
(25:42):
young people and in the scouting department. But the people
that were the that that I learned scouting from Dominiely
who was again Dominilli and I've worked for Bill Pollion
for one hundred years. You know, super Bowl rings both
in Carolina and in Indianapolis. And Ozzie was on the scouting.
Ozzie Newsom was on the scouting. He had just retired.
(26:05):
Tom Dimitrof senior Thomas's dad, you know, Ernie Plank, who
was one of the he was one of the great
scouts of the forty nine ers. During the Bill Walsh years,
you know, there was you know, Bill shunk Wiler, there
was this group of old dogs, another guy by the
name of Ron Marciniac one of my all time favorites.
And every year during training camp we would have to
(26:27):
spend the entire we would the young scout would have
to walk around like a puppy dog with the old
scout and you just learn how to do the job.
You learned professionalism, you learn how to do things and
having mentors along the way and people that cared and
were they rough Heck yeah they were. They were old
school football guys. But you know it was acceptable because
(26:49):
that's how I was raised, you know what I mean.
But the mentorship part is invaluable and to me, that's
one of the most important things, you know. You know,
I was asked recently, you know, what are you most
proud of in the time that you were at the Patriots,
And you know, and looking back on it, it's the relationships.
(27:11):
And you know, as you dig deeper on the relationships,
it's the people that I was able to hire and
mentor and you talk to them, and you know, when
I left here, I know that the number one were
still pissed off at me, because you know, I led
them hard, and I still get calls from every single
(27:31):
one of those guys when they got to the position
they said, I understand it more now because did I
fabricate some difficulties Sometimes? Absolutely, but you know what, that's
how I was raised. You don't think Belichick and Parcels
fabricated some difficulty just to apply pressure. So when you
get in that seat, you can handle pressure. And you know,
I look back the list of gout You know, Josh
(27:52):
McDaniels was selling plastics in Ohio when I hired, and
people forget he worked in personnel the first couple of years.
Brian Flores, you know, I offered him this job here
at the Patriots two weeks before he graduated from Boston
College because Tom O'Brien, who I went to specifically and said, coach, listen,
I'm looking for a guy, you know Bill and I
who can put up with us, who loves football, is
(28:13):
really really smart and truthfully at the time, I said
I don't want him to look like me, though, and
he said, I got your guy, and he give me
Brian Flores, and after Brian Flores, it was Dwan Daniels,
you know, the BC three. Then the next BC guy
that I hired was Ryan Poles in two thousand and nine,
who's now at the bear As hired him. And you know,
John Robinson was a graduate assistant coach, you know down
(28:36):
in Oh my gosh, I'm totally blanking on the school.
He was at Nickel State. You know, Jason Light, Bob
Quinn was an intern. He was still going to Yukon
when I got here, was filinishing in college internship. So
I look back at the relationships and you know, Nick
Cassario's coaching receivers at like Saginaw Valley State or something.
I look back at the relationships and the opportunity and
(28:58):
I feel grateful and thankful that I was able to
hire and mentor people, not just by myself. The mentorship
wasn't just me. There was this group of people here
that they all learned from like I did. And that's
you know, when we all get done with this, the
big Man's not going to ask us how many rings
we got, how many piles of money. He's gonna want
(29:18):
to know how we served and how we served other
people question.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So Scott, as you're talking through that, you know, we're
very humble beginnings. You get to a crossroad, that's those
are my words. So I don't know if that's actually accurate,
but you know, you end up going to the Jets.
I'm assuming that's where you met your wife, you know,
and here comes a decision time where you're employed by
the New York Jets and Bill's going to leave to
(29:42):
come here, and it isn't just you, there's a bunch
of people to come. I have to believe that was
probably one of the more challenging decisions that you made
in your life. Let's talk about, you know, your willingness
to throw in with Bill.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, it's you know, Bill gave me my NFL life,
you know, Belichick and you know we're not because we're
not talking about the Jets and the departure, So there's
two bills. It was. It was complicated for a lot
of reasons and a lot of loves. I mean, you know,
when people forget sometimes it was. Belichick was also the
(30:15):
head coach of the New York Jets in nineteen ninety
seven for a couple of days, right and during that time,
I was still with the Ravens. Bill called me, called Mane,
called Ozzie and said he wanted to hire me and Manginie.
We went there, and you know, Bill, after the Cleveland
Cleveland time, he and I stayed very close, and at
(30:35):
the end we got even closer before he was fired.
Just talking about a lot of the things that Bill
loves information and he loves to listen, and he wanted
information from a lot of different people. Fast forward to
those three years in New York. You know, Bill and
I had an office right next to each other. We
had a door where we could walk without going out
(30:57):
in the hallway. We'd go in between and we just
and we did our jobs. But we also talked about
the possibility of some day somewhere, someplace in the future,
and you know, no promises, but just like what would
we do differently, what would we do? You know? And
I was growing, you know, I was no longer the
slappy I guess once a slappy always, so, you know,
(31:20):
but it was it was a different level slappy, right,
I had one more stripe on my slappy. So when
that happened, and I remember that day like it was yesterday,
and I remember the meeting the day before Bill walked
away when Parcels called us all because I don't know
if I've told this story publicly. When the facts came
(31:41):
in from Robert, it came in on my fax machine.
So I had to walk the facts down to Parcels office.
It was my office. You go out in the hallway
my office. The next door is belichicks to the next office.
The next door is Parcels locking that facts down.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That's an executive sloppy.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That's an executive executive to the head slap.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's an uncomfortable slappy.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Absolutely, and and you know, and.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Anyway, I won't get into the details, but Parcels hastily
calls a staff meeting. He resigns in the staff meeting
within like an hour, and Belichick's the head coach. Belichick
leaves the office for the day. And you know, there
wasn't a lot of communication. And the next day he
(32:25):
comes by my you know, he walks by my office
as he's headed the press conference and just gave me
a look, said a couple of words that, you know,
a couple of words, heads up to watch this and
and I knew he wasn't something was off and he
went down there and he resigned and he left. Now
(32:46):
we also lived like maybe a mile from one another
up in this and I remember being like, anyway, it's he.
You know. The whole thing goes on with with Bill
with parcels, Belichick, their crafts, and that whole thing gets
sorted out. And then Bill and I decided to stop communicating,
(33:09):
you know, because I felt like something it was just
we need to stop communicating. But then a couple of
days later, after it's named, what happens is I'll tell you.
I leave the office one day and Belichick and I
hadn't communicated all right, this I'm leaving the office in Hempstead,
driving up to my house. My wife and I Dallas
and I are married by that time, and I'll never
(33:30):
forget I By the time I left the office and
I got home, I remember walking to the house and
I hear my wife go and say, oh yeah, Dad,
oh dad, he just walked. I what's wrong, jeez. This
is when we still had landlines, right or at least,
And she gives me the phone. She goes, it's my dad.
(33:52):
I don't know what's going on. I'll leave out all
the details, but essentially Belichick had just vexed and for
permission to interview me and hire me for you know,
a job much bigger.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Than the job significant so promotion, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Significant promotion. And then the awkwardness begins, and you know
it's you've got this relationship, Bills one of my closest friends.
Belichick is one of my closest friends, dearest friends. We
have this dream, this vision of what we might do,
and and this team of people that we would want
(34:31):
to pull together, and and I'm under contract. And the
bottom line is what it came down to is I
went to Parcels and it was several uncomfortable conversations and him,
because I mean, there was a lot of emotion involved,
and there was and I just remember saying to parcel
It said, Bill, if you're my father in law, Bill's
a dear friend. That job is a promotion. It's a
(34:54):
better situation potentially for my future. However, you are my
father in law. I'm under contract. I will remain here
if you want me to remain here. And I'll say
this for and you guys all know Parcels he turned
around and said you can go. And he didn't say
you can go and fu Yeah, no, he didn't because here,
(35:18):
here's the other thing is is you know, Parcells has
this He's at times complicated, at times he's not. And
even after I left, is upset as he was with Belichick,
is upset as he was with his relationship with Robert
and Jonathan, he still advised me, advised me on how
(35:41):
you know, with with thoughts on being successful. Right, he
didn't say good riddance, go ahead, you know, you know,
And and and also didn't go dark on me, right,
He didn't shut me out. He would continue to advise
me like a father in law, right, and or and
and here we were the competition. You know, if he
could have backed up a truck over you know some
(36:04):
folks up here in Foxborough, he might have. But but
and he knew what he was doing, and he knew
that I was gonna you know. So yeah, it was
a really complicated time. But retrospectively, it's one of the
things honestly that I that I that I cling on
to because I watched the difficulty of all the relationships
(36:24):
and the people. But then I would have these private
moments with all involved with Belichick, with Parcels, with Robert,
you know, all people who had very complicated relationships and
at moments a lot of frustration with one another, but
then in the next breath they'd be talking about the
(36:45):
other person with reverence and there was this weird and
I definitely say that with Parcels all the time, like
it can sort of and I don't know him at all.
I've never had a one on.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
One conversation with him, but you could almost see like
the there's a snap, like where he's got that that
shield up and then all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
He's like, look a Bill Belichick is done. Because you'm
proud of that, like I like, instead of being resentful
in jail. And maybe it took years to get there,
maybe it wasn't right away.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
And I think you probably had a lot to do
with that, Scott, with being that middleman and that mediator.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And I wasn't there a famous golf match. Well, yeah,
I got thrown off the golf course. Is the way
I was dressed? Yeah, that happened. That happened. So I
want to talk a little bit. And this is I mean,
obviously the the dynamics.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Of that whole we could do the whole, the whole thing,
but I I do want to.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Real quick because disrespect there, Paul, Yeah, you know what
I mean. There's and and honestly, if you remember that
that film the Two Bills, they asked him, do you
guys love each other? Right? That was a moment and
the way that Kenny Rogers from NFL Films did that
interview with him. I don't know if you know this.
Kenny and I are.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'd like to say that I consider Kenny a friend,
and he and I have worked on it. He's got
more talent in the cuticle of my finger than I'll
ever have. But I'm honored to call him a friend.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
What he did during that moment when he interviewed the
Two Bills, the two Bills could see no one else, right,
there was a black curtain and they it was like
the Wizard of Oz, so the two of them could
only see one another. Those are the only two people
they could have this interaction, this human interaction with And
there was that moment. And here's the thing is I'm
(38:31):
not allowed to speak for both of them, right or
for either one of them. That's what's the one of
the house rules and family rules. However, my instincts tell
me they both love one another, no question, and I'll
put Robert in that threesome, no question. And again, you
know brilliant people, driven people, great leaders, alpha types. You know,
sometimes it's when your dudes man and you have all
(38:54):
that testosterone, it gets complicated. Anyway, I'm sorry, Paul.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
No, I, like Matt said, I think we could do
the whole thing on just you know two thousand. You know,
the the year two thousand, So I mean, you get here,
and obviously it was a little bit of a transition.
They had had a lot of success in the mid
mid and late nineties, but it was it was going
in the wrong direction. And Matt, that's when there actually
was a salary cap that actually, you know, impeded teams
(39:18):
from doing things, not like today.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I like to say that the cap is craped.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
I get that's that's the effort snark, But it's just
so easy to work around, and it's so much bigger
than it was when you and Bill and everybody else
involved was trying to piece this together in two thousand. Frankly,
and Bill Belichick has said this, he didn't have fifty
three NFL players.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
No, we didn't. So you go from that, and do
you remember that season. At one point in time, we
actually only had fifty one players on the fifty three
men roster. Absolutely, that's why he said too less practice
squad players. And he was asked about it. We'll get
to that.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
He was asked about it. You know, I think Brian
and I, Brian Morey and I had like a little
coach's corner we used to do with him once a month,
and we asked him about it, and he gave one
of those off the record when he's leaning over the chair,
one of these jobs. Here he goes, we didn't have
fifty three players Like this was as brutally honest an
(40:17):
answer as you could get. They had fifty one players
on the roster because they didn't feel like they had
fifty three worthy of being on an NFL team, right, Paul,
And I'll add to that, not only worthy of being
on an NFL team. One of the things we talked
about before we came here. When we got here was
we were only going to have people that could be
(40:37):
here and wanted to be here. So could we have
found probably two more NFL quality players.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Absolutely, But here's the deal. If you didn't want to
be with us, we ain't mad at you. Just go
somewhere else. Right Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe
on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like
the show, please rate and review us. Listener comments and
ratings help keep us high on the podcast rankings so
new listeners can find us. Be sure to check Patriots
(41:07):
dot com for more news and more podcasts.
Yeah, it's time for another episode of Pats from the
Past podcast Matt Smith with Paul Pirello and we're pleased
to be joined by former Patriots personnel chief GM Scott.
I know we don't get hung up on title. Scott
Poli is here.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
No, we don't get hung up on titles at all.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Footballs are right, Thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is great.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're really looking forward to it. I think listeners who
know a little bit about Scott Pioli and his tremendous
success that he's had here in New England would be
interested to know that there's a history between Scott Pioli
and Paul Pirillo.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Right out of the shoots.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Right out of the shoots, let's estabh Scott.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Piole is a professional ballbuster, a little Andy Hart esque,
So our listeners know Andy Hart and his personality.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Scott's got a little of that in US.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Okay, so saves the guy from love to bring up
all right, you know, a group interview with the combo
in India in front of every single guy who's ever
covered the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Right, So if you would, Paul and Scott, let's let
fans know where this history lies. I.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
So I'll tell you that one of my very very
best friends growing up lived three or four houses down
for me, is a guy named Paul Karamanica and absolutely
tremendous athlete, was by far the best athlete in our
little area of Everett. And as you know, Matt, you know,
more than you could tell everybody ever dominates.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I can say he's one of the better athletes that
came out of Everett. It's like saying, you know, came
out of you know, no disrespect Sharon, right, you know.
So Paul was a very very good football player, but
a little on the small side. He ended up playing
at Central Connecticut State, where he became teammates with none
other than Scott Pioli, who's sitting right now to my right. So,
(01:50):
I when I was growing up, I lived in a
house that we owned a barroom, and we owned a
little restaurant bar downstairs. It was in my family for
seventy five years, you know, so obviously long before I
was ever around, and there was maybe some drinking that
went on, you know, down down there, and I apologe
yours and Scott Peoli was you know, lucky enough to
(02:14):
frequent that establishment with Paul because they were really really
good friends in college and we were roommates.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I actually lived with three guys from Everett. That's what
brings us back.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, and you know, again, you know, everyt a little
bit a little different than most.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We do things a little different. Uh.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So long story short, We'll go to i'd say roughly
nineteen eighty eight ish, uh.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
And Scott and Paul are at Beehive Stadium. It was
called on a New Britain, Connecticut. Right, We're playing home
of the brit Socks and Britain Red Sox. And I
was pitching for Boston University at the time. So Paul,
Paul was all excited. He's like, yeah, you know, my my,
my buddy. You know he's going to be pitching today.
So Scott, Paul, they're all out there, if I imagine,
(02:57):
with a Keg and Ralph Marshall from Everett all so
John Lee from John Lee, who I actually played Little
league baseball with.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, I lived with those three guys. I lived with
the three Evert boys. They were known as unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
So again I won't dare bore everybody with the details,
but I gave up a home run that may not
have stopped traveling yet.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well that's what Scott says. I believe it went off
the Marlboro Man center.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It was back in the day when they could have
like the Marlboro Man think, I mean, think about this
is the I think it was eighty seven actually, and
and there was you know, you could go with eighty seven.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
That was my freshman ye I wasn't quite ready yet
and hadn't developed.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
And there was this giant Marlboro Man you know on
the horse in centera that went way up above the
and it might have hit the Marlboro it might have.
So so we're so fired up. It was like we
didn't care. We were we were, and we were.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Like and you know a little bit about bu baseball.
We were Division one and name only. We were overmatched
in most games that we played against Division one teams.
In Central Connecticut was very good in baseball at the time.
So it was like I was, you know, didn't belong.
You know, it was a they're like twenty nine and six, right,
they were very very good, good, very good program. And
we'll fast forward about twenty years. Scott comes here, you know,
(04:11):
with with Bill, you know, in two thousand and so
we you know, sort of catch up. Yeah, yeah, no,
I remember, I remember. And you know, because like if
you knew Paul, like Paul Karmanica's father was best friends
with uncle Jeb.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Bob, that tells you. That tells you what.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Okay, So actually Scott and I used to do a
lot of speaking engagements for Bob Karamanica back.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
In the day.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
But uh so twenty years go by and Scott and
I catch up a little bit, and you know, the
years go by here and obviously, you know, once we
have that introduction that Scott I was on the paid
on mind list after that, right, even though I worked
for the team, I was part of the media, So
Scott couldn't attend that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You know, oh he's actually a good guy, you know, Bill,
you know you could you could tell that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I knew I was at least cordial, right and friendly,
would give you the hug.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And so so we go to the combine one, Andy
Hart and you're there, and you know it's the Globe Herald,
pro Joe, NBC Sports, Boston Nest.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean, like every.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Single outlet, every single outlet in New England covering the
Patriots is there. And this big scrum around Scott and
I come walking over and he just interrupts everything.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
He goes, hey, long ball, Paul, and everybody's like, oh,
I have to hear this story. And that's basically the
long and short of That's great, but no professional ball
busting nature.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But now listen, he's putting the chop busting on me
right now talking about anyone who's from Everett. I mean,
part of me becoming that way was because I lived
with three these guys, you know, and that's that's all
they did up there. Was it was it the Crimson Tavern.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Crimson Tavern, Crimson Tavern at the time that you would
have been there. We had many many names, but that's
probably what it was. I remember there was there was
a dart board right there wasn't much to do. I
think there was a pucks like shuffle board and a
dark board and you know, I got to play goalie
my first night there.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's great, that's great. So Scott, thank you again for
coming here into Foxborough. Let's catch people up, Patriots fans,
to know what are you up to these days? I
know people you know, they see you on NFL networks
sometimes and everything like that. Tell people what you're up
to these days, and how do you like it?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A lot of things. I'm gonna give a long list
of things. So my full time gig is with the
NFL Network. So I do work for NFL Network on air.
We live back up in the area and so I
do ninety percent of the work from home from my
home office, which is fantastic. But I also do work
for CBS Sports and CBS HQ and CBS News, and
(06:35):
then I do consulting work for the league office. Troy
Vincent has me doing stuff in football operations in the
area of Dee and I and the International player Pathway
stuff with Peter O'Reilly as well, you know, Troy and Roger.
They'd asked me to, you know, with my experience and
my knowledge too, you know, is there stuff that I
could help with? And so I do some of that,
and then I do some side consulting work for about
(06:58):
six college football pros. You know. After I resigned from
the Falcons in twenty nineteen, Nick Saban approached me. I
had Bill, Bill, Nick and I and that large group
from back in Cleveland had all worked together, and Nick
asked me to, you know, without getting into details that
work on this project and meet with some of his
players and advise some of his players on the side
(07:19):
while also evaluating them. So that became a great It's
a side gig that I have that's a consultant work,
but it's great because it also helps me prepare for
the draft. So I get to know these kids. I boote.
You know, I would do some work with with LSU
because BK, Brian Kelly who going born in Effett, born
in Effort. You know he denies what does he say?
(07:39):
He's from Charles down Well, I mean I always I'm like, BK,
come on, man, he's an everage.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Funny you mentioned this because we're working on our draft
profiles right now and we have twelve picks.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That's a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
So it's taken us a little bit. And we all
had three writer so we had four guys each. I
have three of them completely done. The LSU one is
the one that I haven't finished, and the Wide Receive
coach was was recruiting and the sports information director said,
because I might be able to get Brian Kelly for you.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So I actually used that end.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
I said, I said, hey, listen, I said, when you're
talking to him, let him know I grew up in Everett.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
He'll know what that means.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I thought that might give me an end, but now
you're telling me that that's probably why he hasn't called me.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Given a hard so so Brian uh Is, you know
he's one of the I worked with him when he
was at Notre Dame. Now working with the LSU's one
of the schools I work with, So I know you're
your new receiver a little bit. So those are the jobs,
and then I you know, I work for a number
I'm on the board of a number of nonprofits. Uh
the Women's Sports Foundation, Women Leaders in College Sports, Black
(08:40):
College Football Hall of Fame. I'm on the selection committee
and also on the on the board. I'm staying very
very involved in football, but just in a different way.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Right now, it sounds great, Scott, you look great. You've
seem happy, which really looks refreshing. And you know this
the media part of what you're doing as far as
your job our I guess exposure to you. And you
grew up in a system where it's one voice, yes,
and we're not going to have a lot of people talk.
And now you're on the other side of that. You know,
(09:12):
it's kind of has to be very interesting for you
to like, I don't know if people are trying to
probe you, Hey Scott, we want you to be our
information guy or we want your opinion. But that's kind
of an interesting dichotomy to go from something where it's
it's one voice. You might have been the voice, or
we're letting people be the voice in Kansas City and
places like that. How have you dealt with that kind
(09:34):
of what's the word that I want here? You know,
the ability to try to get information or to communicate yourself.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Because I'm seeing it from I've seen it from both sides.
And here's going back. Let's go historically or chronologically. You know,
I absolutely, one hundred percent completely believe in the one
voice concept. I really do. It was that way, you know,
when I started in the NFL with Bill in Cleveland.
It was that way, you know, when I went to
(10:05):
the Jets with Parcels and Belichick, and then it was
that way when we came here. And and the reality is
when I was young, I not only did I believe
in it, I honestly didn't want to do media stuff.
And the simple reason was because I had seen too
often people unintentionally or intentionally say the wrong thing, do
(10:27):
the wrong thing, harm their club, harm the players, you know.
I think people when you're put in a situation, you
asked a question, you want to answer it honestly and
the best you can. But you realize sometimes answering things
honestly can compromise the program. It can compromise you know,
the player's health, a player's you know, ability to compete.
(10:47):
So I always believed in it, and I still believe
in it, and I also think it's funny. I'll share
a little bit of what with with the fans, what
we were talking about off air. You know when I
was asked to do. The funny thing is in all
those years that I didn't do it, And even when
I went to Kansas City, it was very funny. I
was a general manager and I went to a place
(11:08):
where the former general manager, Carl Peterson, he was the face,
the voice of the almost like the owner, had his
own TV show, he had his own radio show, he
had all this stuff. So when I went out there,
this was one of the things I did a really
poor job of thinking about and preparing for. There was
this expectation that I was going to be out there
(11:29):
giving more information, whereas I was from the mindset even
though I was the general manager in charge of hiring
the head coach. My plan was to go out there
hire the head coach, and the head coach was going
to become the voice in the face along with the players.
I was going to just go out there do my job.
My job was to again oversee things, manage things, draft
free agency contracts, you know, all the stuff that I
(11:51):
need to do. But to fade into this because people
don't care about general managers. They don't care about vice
presidents of player personnel. Maybe they do, but they don't.
And so it wasn't something that I wanted to do.
So it fit perfectly with the program that Bill and
I were on while I was here. I didn't want
to do the work, and I remember, you know, it's
funny because Paul and I knew each other, and there
were times and moments I know he was frustrated with
(12:13):
me because we were friends. We had this, but I
also quite honestly didn't want the exposure. Even when we
were having success. It just wasn't my gig. The funny
part is I got my bachelors and my masters from Syracuse,
the New House School in communications. And here, you know,
I knew the industry, you know, from an academic standpoint,
but I didn't know it. And I think the other
(12:36):
part is this, I when I got on the other
side and started doing this, And I'll share what I
told you guys earlier. You know, my thing was this,
if someone wanted to hire me, to have me talk
about my experiences about processes, about systems, about maybe why
people make decisions, or why they make certain draft choices,
or how they build their boards or why you know,
(12:58):
even stuff in seasoning game that I knew about game
planning and coaches and preparation. Great, but I refused, and
I and I told my bosses, I refused to be
a mean person, because you can do this job without
being mean, without being snarky, without being you know, I
think when people get snarky, they're just trying to be
the smartest person in the room.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
I'm pretty snarky times, I have to admit, but I
don't do it on purpose. I do it more in fun,
not like it's everything. It's not cheap shot. It's kind
of like, but that's the fun, Paul.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It's really funny. You say that because I've had to
stop myself because I don't. And when you do it
and you're not necessarily I said, be the smartest guy
in the room. But sometimes you're just trying to be funny, right,
you want to make people laugh. It's kind of like
that locker room thing, chop busting, and so I just
don't want to do that because again, as well as
things went here, I also failed epically. You know, I
(13:52):
got fired. I went through it. I and even when
we were having success, you know, I watched Bill and
his family go through some stuff at different times before
we start having success. I remember the five and eleven season.
I remember the one in three start. I remember what
Bill and his family were going through at the time.
And when when you're in it, you have a different
perception or perspective. I should say, of what words can
(14:17):
what public words can do to people and humanity, and
I'll stop there. But it's just but I love the job,
so I asked, I told him, listen, please allow me
to educate, not speculating. Yeah, don't ask me who's going
to win this week? And I have no idea that
I'm not who's going to win the AFCs East. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's why they play the game.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
And in all seriousness, I know, you know, and I've
teached you about that a lot about like, oh.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You had to pretend that you know me anymore?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
And I do it, and I don't do it as
much with Bearish, but Bearish and I played baseball together,
so we also knew each other.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Again, that's the snark in me which you're talking about.
I understood, and I understood from day one that it's different.
And I know the you know, I don't want to
pressure is probably not the right word, but I know
the pressure from Bill and to make sure that you
are in line.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You don't want to be the reason why it's not
one voice, and then when you're one of the other leaders,
you're keeping other people in total.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I totally understood it. I still understand it to this day.
With pers I always, you know, and Matt and I
talk about it. I and I do say it to
him sometimes, like you know, sometimes I was just saying hello,
you know, like I wasn't, you know, not every time
I talk to somebody, am I looking to find out
what the game plan is that week?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
But believe me, as much grief as I've given you
over the years, from the first day you would hear,
I understood it because I knew if it was real,
you would have been much differently when you And that's
the thing about you know, one of the biggest things
about the Patriot Way is compartmentalizing and compartmentalizing the game,
(15:49):
your life, relationships.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
And it's a blessing and a curse at times, no question,
And and it's sometimes you have to act and behave
in certain ways because you get to you have to
wait on your own scale. Okay, am I you know,
do I walk away from this situation, this circumstance, this person,
(16:12):
it's going to be uncomfortable. I don't feel good about it. However,
I have a responsibility to fifty three people in the
locker room. And it's beyond that, right, it's to how
many employees. There's one hundred other employees here right. Truthfully,
there's a responsibility to you guys, because you're a part
of this team as well. You're a part of this organization.
And you know, the more success that was had on
(16:35):
the field, the better everyone lived. So if you just
always knew that there was a downside. And again, I
think all of us at different times acted and behaved
in ways that we weren't wanting to and or proud of.
But we just knew that, you know. Sometimes you know,
sometimes the modes the roads don't meet. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Here's a life lesson that I want to I want
Fians to know Scott, because I do think it's a
life lesson. It happened to be in the business of
football for you, which is where you got your start.
I don't know. I don't think that you coined the
phrase slappy. I think it's a great word. I don't
know if you can use it. You know, in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Three you can use slappy, you just can't use the
other full term, right, the proper term. Right.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
But but but if.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
You would.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Tell people, Patriots fans, you know, it's not like your
dad got you know, knew this person and got you here,
or you know you were a Heisman winning athlete or
anything like that. You came from a very humble background
that I think most people in whatever business they choose
to be in can learn something from how you got
(17:44):
into this business.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, it's gosh, I could I could talk a lot
about this not and not meaning about me, but just
the circumstance and the situation. Yeah, you're right. I you
know my my my father is a blue collar worker.
We didn't know anyone we did. And you know, all
I knew is I love football. I went to Central Connecticut,
which when I went there at the time was Division two.
(18:05):
We kind of moved up to one double A kind
of kind of didn't whatever. I'm not sure we were
in this my last two years. We're in this space.
We don't know what we were. We were playing one
double A schools in Division two schools. And so, you know,
I knew that I was going to go to college
and play football. Found out and realized I wasn't good
enough that I was going to go next. So I
(18:26):
knew that I wanted to coach football. I knew I
wanted to stay in football. I just had this conversation
with this this server waiter last night about he was
talking about academics and he was on a gap year,
and I said, and I was just encouraging him. Listen,
School's not for everyone. And the truth be told, school
was not for me. School was not for the three
Everett boys either. We loved football and It wasn't big
(18:48):
time football, but it was the purpose that we were
in college for. Then we found our other purpose. Then
we realized the importance of an education and the network
that grows from being in that environment and growing up
and finding yourself. And I think, you know, after I
left Central Connecticut a GA job at Syracuse was at
Syracuse's the old line graduate assistant coach under coach McPherson
(19:12):
at the time to Coach Mac. I'm telling you what
one of the most powerful, important and influential people in
my life in those two years. I could go on
and on about Coach Mac and the beautiful things that
he did for people. And he was a tough man,
old town main tough, but you know, a heart of gold.
(19:35):
And then after that, you know, I took a GA.
After the GA job, I took a job at Murray
State University, which was at that time, I think I
was twenty four years old, and it was a full
time one double A job the race Racers back when
it was still called one double A it's now FCS.
And I had my own room. I was going to
be the offensive line coach. Now. The thing was, I
had to take this job and for the first six
(19:56):
months before I got paid the full time salary of
eighteen thousand dollars a year the first six months because
they had fired people and the budgets were much smaller.
I worked month. My monthly salary was three hundred and
eighty four dollars and seventy two cents a month a month,
and which is okay, because of America Kentucky, you could
actually get apartment for two hundred dollars right right. But
(20:19):
it was great. I mean I was down there alone.
I was single, the only single guy on the staff.
So the coach gave me every job that was a
good job and every job that was a bad job.
So I had my own room, offensive line. I was
the liaison with the equipment people in the weight room,
so I had to work on those budgets, so I
was learning things. I was the recruiting coordinator. I was
(20:40):
given the Mississippi Jucos, the Texas Jucos. I had never
been Assissippi, Texas. Those experiences in those places helped me
later on when I'm working in personnel as a scout
and as it goes on, a couple years later, when
Bill got hired at the browns Now backtrack. I had
met Bill, not because of entitlement, not because I just
met Bill through a mutual friend. And when we met,
(21:03):
not getting into the story, he realized how passionate I was.
He and I actually stayed in touch while I was
going through college my last two years, you know, with
letters and an occasional call back when letters were written.
I still got some of these postcards from when Bill
was on vacation. You know. Bill's a writer, you know,
and when he meets people that he will write letters,
he will write postcards, he will write notes. It's one
(21:25):
of the things that I learned and you know, and
still try to follow up with myself because two of
the people who I consider to be tremendous coaches and
didn't lose their way, Bill and Kirk Ference. Kirk Ference
still rates written notes all time. Anyway, we stayed in touch,
(21:45):
and when he got that job, you know, he offered
me a job, and I'll never forget I came up
for the interview, I interviewed, and he comes to me
and says, listen, I don't know what the full job is.
You're going to do everything. If we need you to go,
you know, pick up lunch, you're gonna pick up lunch.
If we need you to go get guys to the
airport or get into a physical he said, we need
(22:06):
you to pad games, you know, tape, watch film it
was still filming, or it was actually just the beginning
of beta tape and whatever you need to do. And
I'll never get He looks at me. Just remember, the
more you can do, the more you can do. And
I sat on that and I was like yeah. And
at the time, he says, I don't know what the salaries.
Do you want the job or not? And I'm like, hell, yeah,
(22:28):
you know, let's do this. And he says, okay, sleep
on it, but let's talk next morning. Come back in
the next morning. And he says, listen, I still don't
know the full job description. I still don't know the title.
I don't know. It gave me the list of things
he didn't know. Is the one thing I do know
is I could pay you sixteen grand. Do you still
want the job? I'm like, yeah, let's go. And this
(22:48):
is nineteen ninety two, now sixteen grand. You know, people say,
oh I was back in nineteen ninety two. Sixteen grand
wasn't very much money then either, and it just that's
what I was making in nineteen ninety two. I know
how little that is right making that, So it's funny.
We just moved full time to Nantucket. That's where we
make our home. Now we make our full time year
on home at our summer home what was our summer home.
(23:10):
And we were unpacking and I came across some things.
I call myself a historian, my wife calls me a
pack rat exactly. And I came across some stuff in
this little Cleveland folder I had, and I had in
there the receipt from the city of Cleveland they used
to give these heat grants where I received five hundred
(23:32):
dollars the winter of nineteen ninety two because I qualified
and we actually I was living in this place. It
was subsidized housing as well. But I mean, that's how
it started. But you know, if you love something, I mean,
you talk about what you start if you love something.
That's one of the greatest lessons my mother and father
taught me. Who two of the hardest working people I've
(23:55):
ever met my life. They didn't love their jobs. They
didn't love what they had to do, you know, and
that was the gift that many of us have.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
You're talking about mentoring Scott and you're talking about running
into a waiter last night or something about and be
passionate about what you're doing. Look at it was simpler
times back in the nineties. Okay, you could get away
with offering somebody almost literally nothing to work a thousand hours.
You don't have to worry about labor laws, human resource departments,
anything like that. But I tell you, I don't know
(24:28):
what you're doing as you're mentoring people. To me, it's
the best. I don't care what the business is. Get in,
figure out a way if you love it, and hopefully
things will work.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Out, and find the people that can help you grow,
learn and evolve. And that was the blessing. Everywhere I
went coach Mac there was a group of people, I
mean some of the coach the coaches that came out
of that group. Our defensive back coach was Randy Edzel.
Clarence Brooks was the defensive line coach, George DeLand was
the offensive line coach. There was a staff there that
was unbelievable. Jim Hoffer was the running backs coach. And
(25:01):
you know, along with that, you know, I get to
my next job there wasn't as much mentoring, but I
was given this overload of work where I just had
to figure it out and fend for myself. And then
when I went to the Cleveland Browns with Bill, you know,
Bill was the head coach, so I spent Yeah, did
(25:21):
I did I have some interaction with him? Yeah, but
I had more of a friendship than a work relationship
with him, right, And but that never showed itself in
the workplace. But one of the things that we had
because what the Browns were trying to do at that
point in time, there was in this old group of
Scouts that were on their way out last couple of years,
so they were infusing the organization with a bunch of
(25:42):
young people and in the scouting department. But the people
that were the that that I learned scouting from Dominiely
who was again Dominilli and I've worked for Bill Pollion
for one hundred years. You know, super Bowl rings both
in Carolina and in Indianapolis. And Ozzie was on the scouting.
Ozzie Newsom was on the scouting. He had just retired.
(26:05):
Tom Dimitrof senior Thomas's dad, you know, Ernie Plank, who
was one of the he was one of the great
scouts of the forty nine ers. During the Bill Walsh years,
you know, there was you know, Bill shunk Wiler, there
was this group of old dogs, another guy by the
name of Ron Marciniac one of my all time favorites.
And every year during training camp we would have to
(26:27):
spend the entire we would the young scout would have
to walk around like a puppy dog with the old
scout and you just learn how to do the job.
You learned professionalism, you learn how to do things and
having mentors along the way and people that cared and
were they rough Heck yeah they were. They were old
school football guys. But you know it was acceptable because
(26:49):
that's how I was raised, you know what I mean.
But the mentorship part is invaluable and to me, that's
one of the most important things, you know. You know,
I was asked recently, you know, what are you most
proud of in the time that you were at the Patriots,
And you know, and looking back on it, it's the relationships.
(27:11):
And you know, as you dig deeper on the relationships,
it's the people that I was able to hire and
mentor and you talk to them, and you know, when
I left here, I know that the number one were
still pissed off at me, because you know, I led
them hard, and I still get calls from every single
(27:31):
one of those guys when they got to the position
they said, I understand it more now because did I
fabricate some difficulties Sometimes? Absolutely, but you know what, that's
how I was raised. You don't think Belichick and Parcels
fabricated some difficulty just to apply pressure. So when you
get in that seat, you can handle pressure. And you know,
I look back the list of gout You know, Josh
(27:52):
McDaniels was selling plastics in Ohio when I hired, and
people forget he worked in personnel the first couple of years.
Brian Flores, you know, I offered him this job here
at the Patriots two weeks before he graduated from Boston
College because Tom O'Brien, who I went to specifically and said, coach, listen,
I'm looking for a guy, you know Bill and I
who can put up with us, who loves football, is
(28:13):
really really smart and truthfully at the time, I said
I don't want him to look like me, though, and
he said, I got your guy, and he give me
Brian Flores, and after Brian Flores, it was Dwan Daniels,
you know, the BC three. Then the next BC guy
that I hired was Ryan Poles in two thousand and nine,
who's now at the bear As hired him. And you know,
John Robinson was a graduate assistant coach, you know down
(28:36):
in Oh my gosh, I'm totally blanking on the school.
He was at Nickel State. You know, Jason Light, Bob
Quinn was an intern. He was still going to Yukon
when I got here, was filinishing in college internship. So
I look back at the relationships and you know, Nick
Cassario's coaching receivers at like Saginaw Valley State or something.
I look back at the relationships and the opportunity and
(28:58):
I feel grateful and thankful that I was able to
hire and mentor people, not just by myself. The mentorship
wasn't just me. There was this group of people here
that they all learned from like I did. And that's
you know, when we all get done with this, the
big Man's not going to ask us how many rings
we got, how many piles of money. He's gonna want
(29:18):
to know how we served and how we served other
people question.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So Scott, as you're talking through that, you know, we're
very humble beginnings. You get to a crossroad, that's those
are my words. So I don't know if that's actually accurate,
but you know, you end up going to the Jets.
I'm assuming that's where you met your wife, you know,
and here comes a decision time where you're employed by
the New York Jets and Bill's going to leave to
(29:42):
come here, and it isn't just you, there's a bunch
of people to come. I have to believe that was
probably one of the more challenging decisions that you made
in your life. Let's talk about, you know, your willingness
to throw in with Bill.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, it's you know, Bill gave me my NFL life,
you know, Belichick and you know we're not because we're
not talking about the Jets and the departure, So there's
two bills. It was. It was complicated for a lot
of reasons and a lot of loves. I mean, you know,
when people forget sometimes it was. Belichick was also the
(30:15):
head coach of the New York Jets in nineteen ninety
seven for a couple of days, right and during that time,
I was still with the Ravens. Bill called me, called Mane,
called Ozzie and said he wanted to hire me and Manginie.
We went there, and you know, Bill, after the Cleveland
Cleveland time, he and I stayed very close, and at
(30:35):
the end we got even closer before he was fired.
Just talking about a lot of the things that Bill
loves information and he loves to listen, and he wanted
information from a lot of different people. Fast forward to
those three years in New York. You know, Bill and
I had an office right next to each other. We
had a door where we could walk without going out
(30:57):
in the hallway. We'd go in between and we just
and we did our jobs. But we also talked about
the possibility of some day somewhere, someplace in the future,
and you know, no promises, but just like what would
we do differently, what would we do? You know? And
I was growing, you know, I was no longer the
slappy I guess once a slappy always, so, you know,
(31:20):
but it was it was a different level slappy, right,
I had one more stripe on my slappy. So when
that happened, and I remember that day like it was yesterday,
and I remember the meeting the day before Bill walked
away when Parcels called us all because I don't know
if I've told this story publicly. When the facts came
(31:41):
in from Robert, it came in on my fax machine.
So I had to walk the facts down to Parcels office.
It was my office. You go out in the hallway
my office. The next door is belichicks to the next office.
The next door is Parcels locking that facts down.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That's an executive sloppy.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That's an executive executive to the head slap.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's an uncomfortable slappy.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Absolutely, and and you know, and.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Anyway, I won't get into the details, but Parcels hastily
calls a staff meeting. He resigns in the staff meeting
within like an hour, and Belichick's the head coach. Belichick
leaves the office for the day. And you know, there
wasn't a lot of communication. And the next day he
(32:25):
comes by my you know, he walks by my office
as he's headed the press conference and just gave me
a look, said a couple of words that, you know,
a couple of words, heads up to watch this and
and I knew he wasn't something was off and he
went down there and he resigned and he left. Now
(32:46):
we also lived like maybe a mile from one another
up in this and I remember being like, anyway, it's he.
You know. The whole thing goes on with with Bill
with parcels, Belichick, their crafts, and that whole thing gets
sorted out. And then Bill and I decided to stop communicating,
(33:09):
you know, because I felt like something it was just
we need to stop communicating. But then a couple of
days later, after it's named, what happens is I'll tell you.
I leave the office one day and Belichick and I
hadn't communicated all right, this I'm leaving the office in Hempstead,
driving up to my house. My wife and I Dallas
and I are married by that time, and I'll never
(33:30):
forget I By the time I left the office and
I got home, I remember walking to the house and
I hear my wife go and say, oh yeah, Dad,
oh dad, he just walked. I what's wrong, jeez. This
is when we still had landlines, right or at least,
And she gives me the phone. She goes, it's my dad.
(33:52):
I don't know what's going on. I'll leave out all
the details, but essentially Belichick had just vexed and for
permission to interview me and hire me for you know,
a job much bigger.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Than the job significant so promotion, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Significant promotion. And then the awkwardness begins, and you know
it's you've got this relationship, Bills one of my closest friends.
Belichick is one of my closest friends, dearest friends. We
have this dream, this vision of what we might do,
and and this team of people that we would want
(34:31):
to pull together, and and I'm under contract. And the
bottom line is what it came down to is I
went to Parcels and it was several uncomfortable conversations and him,
because I mean, there was a lot of emotion involved,
and there was and I just remember saying to parcel
It said, Bill, if you're my father in law, Bill's
a dear friend. That job is a promotion. It's a
(34:54):
better situation potentially for my future. However, you are my
father in law. I'm under contract. I will remain here
if you want me to remain here. And I'll say
this for and you guys all know Parcels he turned
around and said you can go. And he didn't say
you can go and fu Yeah, no, he didn't because here,
(35:18):
here's the other thing is is you know, Parcells has
this He's at times complicated, at times he's not. And
even after I left, is upset as he was with Belichick,
is upset as he was with his relationship with Robert
and Jonathan, he still advised me, advised me on how
(35:41):
you know, with with thoughts on being successful. Right, he
didn't say good riddance, go ahead, you know, you know,
And and and also didn't go dark on me, right,
He didn't shut me out. He would continue to advise
me like a father in law, right, and or and
and here we were the competition. You know, if he
could have backed up a truck over you know some
(36:04):
folks up here in Foxborough, he might have. But but
and he knew what he was doing, and he knew
that I was gonna you know. So yeah, it was
a really complicated time. But retrospectively, it's one of the
things honestly that I that I that I cling on
to because I watched the difficulty of all the relationships
(36:24):
and the people. But then I would have these private
moments with all involved with Belichick, with Parcels, with Robert,
you know, all people who had very complicated relationships and
at moments a lot of frustration with one another, but
then in the next breath they'd be talking about the
(36:45):
other person with reverence and there was this weird and
I definitely say that with Parcels all the time, like
it can sort of and I don't know him at all.
I've never had a one on.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
One conversation with him, but you could almost see like
the there's a snap, like where he's got that that
shield up and then all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
He's like, look a Bill Belichick is done. Because you'm
proud of that, like I like, instead of being resentful
in jail. And maybe it took years to get there,
maybe it wasn't right away.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
And I think you probably had a lot to do
with that, Scott, with being that middleman and that mediator.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And I wasn't there a famous golf match. Well, yeah,
I got thrown off the golf course. Is the way
I was dressed? Yeah, that happened. That happened. So I
want to talk a little bit. And this is I mean,
obviously the the dynamics.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Of that whole we could do the whole, the whole thing,
but I I do want to.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Real quick because disrespect there, Paul, Yeah, you know what
I mean. There's and and honestly, if you remember that
that film the Two Bills, they asked him, do you
guys love each other? Right? That was a moment and
the way that Kenny Rogers from NFL Films did that
interview with him. I don't know if you know this.
Kenny and I are.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'd like to say that I consider Kenny a friend,
and he and I have worked on it. He's got
more talent in the cuticle of my finger than I'll
ever have. But I'm honored to call him a friend.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
What he did during that moment when he interviewed the
Two Bills, the two Bills could see no one else, right,
there was a black curtain and they it was like
the Wizard of Oz, so the two of them could
only see one another. Those are the only two people
they could have this interaction, this human interaction with And
there was that moment. And here's the thing is I'm
(38:31):
not allowed to speak for both of them, right or
for either one of them. That's what's the one of
the house rules and family rules. However, my instincts tell
me they both love one another, no question, and I'll
put Robert in that threesome, no question. And again, you
know brilliant people, driven people, great leaders, alpha types. You know,
sometimes it's when your dudes man and you have all
(38:54):
that testosterone, it gets complicated. Anyway, I'm sorry, Paul.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
No, I, like Matt said, I think we could do
the whole thing on just you know two thousand. You know,
the the year two thousand, So I mean, you get here,
and obviously it was a little bit of a transition.
They had had a lot of success in the mid
mid and late nineties, but it was it was going
in the wrong direction. And Matt, that's when there actually
was a salary cap that actually, you know, impeded teams
(39:18):
from doing things, not like today.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I like to say that the cap is craped.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
I get that's that's the effort snark, But it's just
so easy to work around, and it's so much bigger
than it was when you and Bill and everybody else
involved was trying to piece this together in two thousand. Frankly,
and Bill Belichick has said this, he didn't have fifty
three NFL players.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
No, we didn't. So you go from that, and do
you remember that season. At one point in time, we
actually only had fifty one players on the fifty three
men roster. Absolutely, that's why he said too less practice
squad players. And he was asked about it. We'll get
to that.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
He was asked about it. You know, I think Brian
and I, Brian Morey and I had like a little
coach's corner we used to do with him once a month,
and we asked him about it, and he gave one
of those off the record when he's leaning over the chair,
one of these jobs. Here he goes, we didn't have
fifty three players Like this was as brutally honest an
(40:17):
answer as you could get. They had fifty one players
on the roster because they didn't feel like they had
fifty three worthy of being on an NFL team, right, Paul,
And I'll add to that, not only worthy of being
on an NFL team. One of the things we talked
about before we came here. When we got here was
we were only going to have people that could be
(40:37):
here and wanted to be here. So could we have
found probably two more NFL quality players.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Absolutely, But here's the deal. If you didn't want to
be with us, we ain't mad at you. Just go
somewhere else. Right Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe
on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like
the show, please rate and review us. Listener comments and
ratings help keep us high on the podcast rankings so
new listeners can find us. Be sure to check Patriots
(41:07):
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