To celebrate former Rams linebacker London Fletcher's birthday, listen in as he joins D’Marco Farr to discuss being a part of the 1999 Super Bowl winning team and whether or not he will make the Hall of Fame.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Rams Iconic.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm your host of Marco far and this is the
podcast where you get to catch up with some of
the greatest players in Rams history.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I love my job.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's a chance for you to take a trip down
memory lane, or let me trip you down memory lane
and reminisce about some of the greatest moments you've had
as Rams fans. But it's also an opportunity to introduce
to some of you, the newer fans, the iconic players
that made this franchise what it is. Right now, my
next guest played four of us sixteen years in the
NFL for the Saint Louis Rams. Undrafted out of Division three,
(00:41):
John Carroll in nineteen ninety eight, a.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Four time pro bowler, should be a lot more.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You'll hear about that soon, finish his career with two
thirty nine career tackles. That's two thirty nine car Rex
That ranks second all time in NFL history, only behind
the one and only Ray Lewis. He is just one
of six players in the history of the NFL to
start two hundred and fifty consecutive games, and he was
(01:08):
a member of our world champion Saint Louis Rams team
in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Please welcome in the Venerable one. London Fletcher, I know
you played with you.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We're going to get into that for a hot but
the thing that comes out is you were an alternate
eleven times before you actually made the Pro Bowl. And
that's the jersey from the from when you finally made it. Yeah,
I mean when you see that jersey, what feelings come
out for you?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, it's a couple of different feelings. One of the
obviously great pride because I accomplished that, but also just
a disappointment too because it took me so long to
finally get that recognition that I knew I deserved, you know,
early in my career, even during my days with the Rams.
(01:57):
You know our Super Bowl, Yeah, very I you know,
I deserve to make the Pro Bowl that year. I
can remember coach coach for mel I know, I know
you remember that meeting when he announced all the Pro
Bowls who made the team. You were one of the guys. Yeah,
Kevin Carter, you know, all the offensive guys, Kurt Isaac,
(02:17):
you know, Marshall Orlando, all those guys, and he also
announced the the alternates and he he mentioned mentions my
name and he comes up and he's like laces and uh,
you know, he's whispering this. In my end, I say, hell,
I deserve to make that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Team, you know, you know me?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So yeah, that's like I was. I was extremely disappointed
because knowing what our defense did that year. In our offense,
they get they guarded the headlines, but we were a
dominant group defensively and I was a major part of
that defense, and you know, for me to not get
that recognition. And then I saw the guys who got
(02:56):
voted over men, I think, you know, one guy who
was voted ahead of me as an alternate, I think
I have a second auctmen. The first aultnanth had missed
like half the season. I'm like, wow, come on, are
you serious? So yeah, you know, it's uh. It definitely
was frustrating, but I was happy that I finally was
able to make it. But definitely, you know, when I
see just four Pro bowls next to my man, We're like,
(03:17):
this is ridiculous. One.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You know, I totally feel you, and I remember that
meeting and before you came to the RAMS, I was
going through what you were going through. Like, man, I
know I'm better than this, or I deserve some reposition,
and it really drives you. It hurts you everything you
think about not making the Pro Bowl when you think
you should, you're right, But I do struggle with this,
(03:39):
and I'll ask you, did you need that recognition. I'm
not sure if I did, because when it finally happened,
it was good, But I mean, I don't I don't
know if I really needed that recognition.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
When when you say need, it's like it wasn't going
to I was gonna play my game regardless. I was
gonna do the same things I did on the football game,
football field regardless, and the way I went about my
business in the meeting rooms, in the locker room, I
was gonna still do all those things. But I appreciated
that recognition to know because you watched the film you
(04:15):
like you mentioned earlier where you said you knew you
were you should have been making Pro Bos because you
watched the film, you see the guys who are who
are playing, who are getting voted in, and it's like, man,
I'm doing better than these guys or as good as
these guys, and for whatever reason, I'm not getting that recognition.
So you feel a certain way about it, and so
(04:36):
I won't say I needed it, but I appreciated it
no doubt.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Taking the field the first time in Hawaii was was awesome,
and being in that huddle was awesome. And seeing all
those dudes that, like you said, we saw on film.
And finally I get to be here so I can say, yeah,
me too, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You know what what actually upset me the and you
were you can appreciate this because you were a Nike guy.
When you get over to uh Hawaii and they had
the Nike sweet I think they had, and they give
you all those those swags. I'm the big duffel bags
full of this swag and shoes and all that stuff
as one of their pro bowlers. And you know, I
(05:19):
was my first year I made it. I was with
Reebok and they just loaded me up. Man, you gotta
ship all your stuff back because you can't. You can't
take back all this uh this this product that they
give you. I mean, it's you know, it's just so
much stuff. And I was more upset about that, Like, man,
I should have you know about thirty duffle backs full
of stuff because all the year that I, uh, you know,
(05:41):
but that was that was pretty cool. And then they
you know, they set it out for you. Your kids
are able to come up to the suite, wife and
you know, so that part of it. I was more
upset about that.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
You know, I had more fun at the pool than
I did at the game. Oh you're taking around, you
know what I mean, telling stories?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
But yeah, absolutely, after I was the Pro Bowl, I
was hot. We'll delete that part.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Hey man, it's twenty twenty one. You're all good.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I'm hot.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I'm out about the see so something else that that
binds us besides three the hard way me, you and
Ray Agnew. When I read your bio, something else jumps
out undrafted. I'm still not over it. I'm still mad.
I still I still look at the numbers today of
the dudes that were ahead of me, just to make
sure I'm right.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
How do you feel about being undrafted? How much did
that drive you?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
It drove me, I would say, you know, early in
my career, just because I knew I knew I was,
I had a couple of different knocks against me. You know,
you and I both undersize far our positions. You know,
quote unquote undersized you being what six one six feet
defensive tackle me, you know, straight on. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly,
(06:56):
so you know, you it was. It was something that
I used as a motivation and chip on my shoulder
for for my first several years. But then after you
get into the league, for you know, three four or
five years, you kind of like, all right, I, you know,
kind of put that to the side and figure out
other things to motivate me. But I always found something
(07:17):
to piss me off. Man. You know, I was walking angry.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You know what, you were the guy that got me
into DMX got rested sholder. You did about it, but
I didn't hear about it until you started playing. I'm like,
let me get into this a little.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Bit, man.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I was.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I was telling some guys that I'm a golfer now.
So I was on the golf course the other day
and you know, you played music on the golf course
and I had my DMX going, said, I used to
listen to DMX before every game. Yeah, I was in
Saint Louis. But just getting back to you know, you
being undrafted. I played at a small school, Division III
school and then I was undersized. But you you played
(07:55):
at Washington you know, pack packed, twelve pack ten. I
can't remember exactly what. Yeah, back then, I'm sure you
put up great numbers at that during your college career,
but some people just couldn't get over the fact that
man the six to one, and you know, don't just
ignore the productivity. You're doing this against elite players, guys
(08:17):
who are getting drafted, and you're doing this and dominating
those guys that got drafted.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know what's funny, London, I see scouts and I
get more love, you know, you get more from you
get love from players you played against and played with definitely,
and then you see coaches that were with you or
coached against you and they give you love. But I
get a lot of love from scouts, and I get
the feeling it was kind of like, how dare you
(08:43):
be better than what I thought you were?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, they would always make a point to say, well,
I had you down at this grade, you know what
I mean, Like, how dare you be better than what
we thought this six ' one, two hundred and eighty
pound defensive tackle could be?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah? Do you did you get that same feeling?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You know? It's uh, it's funny when when I when
I run into scouts and they be like, man, I
missed on you. Great, great example. This is this is crazy.
So Bill Pollion, hall of fame general manager, you know,
doing his uh career at a Buffalo Holts Carolina Panthers.
(09:24):
His son's actually yeah, his sons actually went to John Carroll.
And one of his sons, Brian Pollian his senior year.
Brian was my my backup at my position my junior year,
and uh Bill, he came to every game and so
he saw me my junior year and I was I
was all American that year, all over the football field.
(09:46):
And then you know, senior year had an even a
better year. Uh didn't. He didn't draft me. But we
went to I don't know if you remember, we went
to Indy and we used to scrimage the coats up
in Indiana, and so, uh Bill Polly and try to
He asked Charlie Army if if he was going to
if they were gonna cut me, because if they were,
(10:06):
they wanted uh, they wanted me, and so son, Charlie's like, nah,
we're not gonna cut him. He's like, well will you
will you trade him to us? So Charlie's like now
I'm not gonna do that, but but the situation is here.
You know, you got this Hall of Fame GM who
had who knew me before anybody knew me. I mean,
(10:27):
and he saw what I was doing. I mean I
wrecked shop d on that on that football field and
his guys. I don't know what they graded me or
whatever the case may be, but they didn't draft me.
So it was just it's just funny how things work out.
It's just I mean, you can play or you can't.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Like Aaron Donald, great example, right, I mean he's undersized,
but the dude can play. So some dudes they just
they let the the hightwave speed and the charts, you.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Know, over override with their I c is a dude
making play that hard?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Can't You can't measure a man's heart, no doubt, determination
that that something inside of you. That's when you and
I don't know, you know, if you you really if
you're a scout, that's why I think when you get
down and you really talk to somebody, and if they
talked talk to you when you were coming out your
passion for playing a game, I'm sure it would have
it would have came out in an injurview process, and
(11:23):
you look at that and say, you know what, this
guy's desire to be great will overcome all that other.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Stuff, No doubt. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I remember Tony Dunee telling a story about work done
his first meeting. He has work done. Hey, what's what
do you think? What's the best thing you do on
a football field? He said score touchdowns. Tony lean back
and said drafting. That's all you need to know. Two
thousand tackles, London, You've never missed you never missed a
(11:54):
game in sixteen years. Two thousand tackles, never missed a
game in sixteen years. And we're having a coherent conversation.
How how how did.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You do this? Where did this come from? You?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And Alan Page? Are you from a different planet? Where
did this come from?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Man? I, you know, just just a love for the game.
I missed a game in high school because of an injury.
I had an ankle injury. That it was a high
ankle spraying, I guess knowing it now, And I wasn't
able to play that next weekend. And so I'm sitting
on the sideline and I was miserable because I'll see
(12:34):
my teammates out there and they're having fun and I'm
missing out on that fun. And I just I from
that point on, I was like, I'm never missing another game,
if not for injury. If I can, if I can get,
if I can walk, I'm playing the game. And that
was my mentality. You know, God giving up, you know,
blessing and how the way he kind of made me durable.
(12:55):
You know, this lower body, big button. All those things
came because I've had yeah, I've had some some some
things where I may have hyper extended a knee where
other guys may have you know, blown their knee out
because you know, just the way guy made me, but
also the way I uh took care of my body
and just learned from guys like yourself, Mike Jones, Todd Collins,
(13:17):
all those guys didn't learn me.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You learned what not to do for me.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, just like even like the hide and the cold
top early. You know, I used to watch you guys.
I didn't. I didn't. I wasn't getting in the hot
tub or cold to prior to coming to to the
rams and just watching you guys how you how you
took care of yourselves getting massages. Todd Collins was the
guy who convinced me to get massages, like look, you
got to get besides like all right, just those types
(13:46):
of things, and really a desire to be out there
on that football field with my teammates and for my teammates,
and and taking care of my body. And then guys
Grace and Mercy.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I got a few great memories. One is a play.
One is when I first saw you.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It was that into ninety seven, going into ninety eight, right,
so second year of vermil Right, So new people are
coming through the building and you ask people who are
you what position do you play? And I remember you
said middle linebacker, and Remike, we went. We went from
Eric Hill or no, Robert Jones to Eric Hill and
(14:23):
we're still trying to find that guy.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So we're like, okay, well he won't be here long.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That first practice, Who did you grab by the face
mask and just start beating up?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Was it Gruda door here? I think it might have
been our study center.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
No, it was it was the guard. It was that. Yeah,
it was one of the guards. It wasn't Gruded Dory.
It was okay, it was one of the guards.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Man.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
He tried, he tried me. You yeah, you remember we
had they had me in sixty six. Yes, surgery number
was sixty six. So this guy was looking at me
like a man, This guy wearing number sixty six, he's,
you know, a short linebacker. You can like, I almost
take advantage of him. And it was a running play
and play was over and or the play had been made,
(15:09):
and he's trying to drive block me, you know, down
the field. So man, you've met the wrong guy. It
was on so well, I don't know if you remember
when we were fighting. Then I see all these linemen
just running from towards me. Yeah, and where I'm from.
(15:29):
If you run it to the you're running at me.
You want to fight too, So I just start swinging
on everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yes, right, I remember that. That's the first day we
took notes. And then of course you became the starter.
And it's funny, I just did one of these with
Kurt Warner. You and him got your first start in
that forty nine er game the year before we won
the Super Bowl, right ninety eight? Yes, yeah, that was
(15:55):
your first start, so you became the starter. So my
third memory of you was it going into the playoffs
and that ninety nine season, I think our practices were
the best practices league wide ever, I mean, not a
ball hit the ground. We were letter perfect on defense.
Attention to detail was how special teams was great. But
I remember, was it going into the playoffs. You and
(16:16):
I were sitting on one of those little carts, I think,
and it was just too much Lucy goosey going on
and I was laughing, and you snapped on me like like.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Hey, lock it in. Do you remember that moment?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know. I just we had
great fun with Our practices were phenomenal, like you said,
but you can kind of sense when something is not
where it needs to be, and guys are just you know,
it's not like we need to be. This is not
our standards. So yeah, I remember that I snapped because
(16:54):
we were just joking around too much. Yes, that that
was definitely.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I don't know what it was, but it just how
it was wired.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think it was after Carolina, after we had been
I think we were already qualified for the playoffs, or
maybe we were going into a playoff game, but it
was one of the moments where we could where we
felt like we could relax a little bit and exhale
a little bit and a little bit and I'm so
glad that you you got me right and in that moment,
because it was right. We need to be focused all
the way through, every single moment if we're gonna get
(17:25):
this thing done.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And finally we did.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
We look at the results on Sunday or game day
and think that's you know, when you win the game,
the game is won during the week of preparation leading
up to you know, your film study, to practice, how
you prepare on that football field going into that game,
and you know what looks like a great practice, like
(17:49):
you mentioned the ball not touching the ground, being on
point defensively and all those types of things. And when
you when it doesn't look like it's supposed to look
my job as a middle linebacker or your job as
a veteran guy. You know you've called us out too defensively, Hey,
when we weren't doing what we need to do. You
you know you you used to snap on us too,
(18:10):
so and that's that's where it's one thing for a
coach to hold you accountable. It's another thing when your
teammate holds you accountable. And that's when you say, Okay,
I need to step up my game.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
You know, Uh, Ray agnew, that's that's our brother, that's
our guy.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I'm so happy for him. Yeah, well in Detroit, I
really do.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
But we had a pact between us that we were
gonna be the last two d tackle standing. And I'm
so glad you brought me back to reality because it's
actually three of us three the hard way knows that
tackle and linebacker against the world. Yes, right, Uh, just
(18:52):
being in the middle being I mean in the thick
of things, being in the Super Bowl when they are
running the ball at us, you know, time and time again.
I mean it's really it's like is this sledgehammer ever
gonna break? Which one is gonna break first? I know
I was dead tired, and I know we can make
jokes about it, but that second half was about as
extended as I became as an athlete in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I had nothing left. Where were you in that fourth
fourth quarter in that in that Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
You know we I mean, if you think about it,
we had the way that game kind of transpired in
the in the second half, we were on a field
of an awfully long time and I had a while ago.
I actually had a stat I think we were out
of those that what thirty minutes in the second half,
I think we on to feel like twenty one minute.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
It was something ridiculous, ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Because our offense score fast, but they also had a
bunch of three and owns in the second half and
things like that, and you know, and Tennessee wasn't They
weren't a quick strike offense. It was just methodical, grind
you out, grind you off. And I was tired. But
if you think back to our training camp, and you know,
my first training camp in ninety nine, I mean ninety
(20:05):
eight training camp in ninety nine, and then even you
guys training camp in ninety seventy, and you all talked
about how difficult those training camp, that training camp was.
We were being built for that drive back in ninety seven,
ninety eight, ninety nine and training camp where we could
have easily broken training camp because at Macomb heat and
(20:29):
you know that that that humidity, But because we were
so tough mentally and physically, we weren't gonna let them
see us. They weren't gonna break our wheel.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, we'll be here.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
If we have to go at the extra quarter, we
will go in the extra quarter because we've trained mentally
and physically for that. So I was, Yes, I was tired,
but I wasn't. I wasn't gonna let them know it.
And we were gonna win that game.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
No doubt. You know you didn't have Bruce Matthews hanging
all over Benji Olson three and.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
The other side. You know what I mean. Hey, you
guys did a great.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
You and you, you and right did a great job.
Even me clean Ray Ray Agnew who played the nose, Yeah,
he would be upset if he let a center get
up on me. The man flesh, my bad man, like
it really hurt Ray if you allowed a linemen to
get up on me.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
And I appreciated that. I had a little bit more juice.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
It's team defense, right, if you can make the play,
make We had a rule. If you can make the play,
if you're gonna go freelance, you know you got to
make because we're singing three guys at you if we make,
if we miss, and.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
The whole defense is at risk.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
But if we hold up you guys, we expect that
linebacker to make the play.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
And I'm telling you, oh yeah, and it.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Was hell before you became a star.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
You know what what kills me is when I see
you know, you'll see guys taking on a double team
and a linebacker just holding back, and a lot of
times their coaches aren't coaching them to attack. To get
that double team off that line and man, help them out,
you know, and free up some one on ones and
things like that. You'll make more tackles for Lost. Get
(22:12):
that lineman, give him some help. But you see guy
just hovering and not committing, and when meanwhile their tackles
getting pounded. We also we had another nickname we called
the Bermuda triango because you know you were going to
disappear in that middle, you go doubt.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I remember in the Super Bowl they kept moving us
around and I wind up on the nose, uh, and
they would try to scoop me with that center, and
I just know all I had to do was cut
him off right and make Eddie George cut back.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And I think, did you have two tackles for Loss
on like the same run?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, yeah, I had. I had a few tackles for Lost, Yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, he was talking trash, like, you know, engage fight me.
I'm like, why mon is gonna make the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah? Right, exactly?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, we're at level yeah, man, But you're right. The
ninety seven ninety eight he eased up in ninety nine.
Coach Ramil loved him. There were moments where you couldn't
stand him where he turned the stone on you if
you you know, bitch and complained about how hard it was.
But London, you're exactly right, man. He was building us
for that last drive. If we didn't have that, we
(23:21):
fold probably Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
We're sitting here super Bowl champs. But you know that's
the other thing.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You had another shout at it in Saint Louis And
I asked you this when when I first asked you
to come on. So if it's sensitive, I'll stop asking
about it. But are you okay now with being an
NFC champion because that is a remarkable ass achievement. That
team was dynamite and I know you didn't win, but
can you look back now and say we were a
(23:50):
great football team.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
We didn't finish the job, we were a great We
were a great football team, no doubt. We won I
think fourteen games during the regular season. Yeah, was dynamic. Defensively,
we were one of the tops in the league. Different
type of defense than what when we went we played
in ninety nine. Yeah, Hampa to a lot of younger
guys too, didn't have all the same type of veteran experience,
(24:16):
but still a dynamic defense. The I haven't I haven't
never watched the that Super Bowl game. You know, I
still have memories from from certain plays that happened. But
you know, as I look back at that game, and
I didn't, I don't feel like we played our best
game offensively or defensively, you know, special teams wise, all
(24:39):
those things. And you know, you get the conversations about
spy game and all those things and what happened didn't happen.
I don't. I don't get too caught up in that
because I always like to look inside and say, did
we play our best football? Regardless of if Spygate happened.
We didn't play our best football do defensively, offensively collectively
(25:02):
and even you know you mentioned, you know, practice and
a couple of years ago when you were with us,
I mean the Super Bowl League practice of leading up
to the Super Bowl. I didn't feel like we had
our best practices the week of the Super Bowl, you know,
from a defense standpoint, and even offensively, we're down in
New Orleans we had to beat the Patriots in Foxborough
(25:24):
that year. We're a fourteen point favorite going into that game.
If you look at that Patriots team, you know, yeah,
Tom Brady is Tom Brady what you know what he
has sended to be now. But back then, they weren't
putting everything on his shoulder and saying go out and
beat him, beat us. It was more of a ball
control offense. They run some gadgets and you know, make
(25:47):
some players on third down. Yeah, it was just yeah,
it was just a situation off Defensively, they had some
veteran guys, but you know, Tyler was was great, and
some great guys in the second day. But you know,
when you look at man and man across the board,
could they match up with our receivers? You know, no.
But they had a great game plan. And I don't
(26:07):
think we played our best game. We didn't. We didn't.
I didn't feel like our practices were up to the
standard of what we are accustomed to going into that game.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You know that's funny, man. I talked to Tory and
Isaac and I didn't ask. I'll ask you because we're closer.
They're on offense and they may get bad the Hall
of Fame for you, it's it's something that needs to happen,
and it just it's all perception and it drives me nuts.
But I wonder, does your Hall of Fame profile increase
(26:40):
or chances of getting in increased if you got the
second ring?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Absolutely, I think everyone. I think Tory and Isaac are
already in if they got the second ring.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You know what I mean? Yes, absolutely, because when you win,
I mean they can't help, but say, hey, you know
you're gonna you're gonna take a bunch of players off
off teams that win Super Bowls. And you know, Isaac
is going in this year. Victoria will eventually get in,
And if we had won two Super Bowls, he'd already
(27:10):
be in. And then myself, you know, being a start
on two Super Bowl teams, I've been you know, overlooked
the last few years. I feel like I would have
already been in because my numbers are first BALLID numbers.
You got two thousand tackles, Look, yeah, the numbers are
first BALLID numbers. The one knot that you can say, well,
(27:32):
you know I only have four Pro Bowls. Well, I
just told you what the death problem is with the
Pro Bowl and the way it's voting, there's no way
I should only have four Pro bowl I should have
at least a minimum ten Pro Bowls in multiple All pros.
And then when you a couple in the fact I
got one Super Bowl, you throwing another Super Bowl. It's
I mean, it's a it's a rap, it's you know,
slam dunk case. But you know, we we didn't accomplish it.
(27:55):
We didn't finish the job. Hats off to them. They
they they played a good football game. Yeah, but I
didn't feel like I didn't feel like we played our
best football game. And based on what I had seen,
the way we played all season long, those prior previous
eighteen games and the way we practice, I mean we
(28:19):
just everything when you look at everything holistically, Yeah, that
wasn't our best performance as a team.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So we do something on the show called my favorite Play.
If you can go back and think, what was your
favorite play as a RAM, describe it?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Take me to I know you got one.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, man, that's you should have gave a guy heads
up for that. Yeah, favorite player as a RAM the
Mike Jones tackle in the Super Bowl. That's definitely that
has to be the number one play. Oh, I was
covering that that play, I was covering Eddie George and
(28:59):
you know the date he ran out to the flat.
I'm kind of looking at him, and I'm looking at
Steve McNair and of hoping he doesn't tucking and run.
So that's that's gonna be number one. Man, I can't.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I don't have did you bust this out?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I don't have a favorite play for me like I
played that I made, man, I used to.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I love hitting people.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So everything about you, I mean, you remember the bad
plays versus the good players.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
We had a did we take a kickoff return back
in the in the playoff game against Minnesota?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah? I think it was the opening kickoff second half.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
So that's gonna be up there. Yeah, because I was,
I was, I was Tony horns lea blocker, Yeah, be
up there and that that kind of that kind of
sparked us. Let's see defensive plan. I can't, I can't
think of another. You gotta be one, DeMarco. I made
a lot of players aside, but I've made a whole
(30:01):
lot of play.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
That's true. That's true. Wow, that's funny. You made too
many players? Remember how about coach Formil. I mean when
you came in and that relationship and him and them
giving you a chance and getting it right, working us
to death, but having a plan and then having it
payoff to me. I am so glad he became our
(30:25):
coach during that time. Without him, we don't do what
we did. How do you feel about Coach for Miill?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
No, you're absolutely right. I love Coach for Miill, still
keeping contact with them to this day. You look at
Coach for Mill and how he built that football team
and he gave underdogs and long shots of true opportunity
to make a football team and didn't care where you
were drafted and how you entered the league and all
(30:51):
those types of things. If you can play football and
you worked hard and you're a good teammate and you
did it the right way, he was he was going
to give you a true opportunity to make his football
team and if you played well, you're going to be
on this team. And I'm forever indebted to him because
at the time he entrusted me to be a his
(31:12):
start middle linebacker. That was his third year as the
head coach. You know, had to losing seasons prior to that,
and you know, we all knew he was on the
hot seat. If if you know, we didn't win, more
than likely he was going to get fired. But you know,
to say, hey, I'm gonna get the keys to this
undrafted free agent five to ten linebacker out of John
(31:36):
Carroll University to play the middle linebacker position that the
spot that I mean this is extremely important on the defense,
and say, you know, even though my job's on the line,
I trust this guy. So you know my hat I'll
forever be in debted to coach for mill coach form MIIL.
When you look at his resume, this is another guy
that you know, the Hall of Fame needs to look at.
(31:57):
When you look at what he was able to accomplish
and Phillip del for you Saint Louis, and then also
what he was able to accomplish in Kansas City. Yeah,
when you up with those those three places and his
full body of work, hockeld he not be in the
Hall of Fame. So it's it's a it's a process
that you know in a system that needs to be remedied. Yeah,
(32:19):
you know, figure out a way to make it because
there's so many people that are that get overlooked year
and a year out, and I know, you know it's
only five five modern era players, and you know only
a couple of coaches that go in every year. But
you got to figure out a way to to to
remedy that situation.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I feel you.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, man, I figured coach for mil will get his
due once the Curt Warner movie comes out, because once
they really figure out what happened and what he did
in Saint Louis with that football team, then I think
you'll get his due. But like you said, he believed
in you, and here you are. Twenty thirty nine tackles,
twenty three picks, that's the one that jumped out, twenty
(32:58):
three interceptions.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
They threw you the ball twenty three times, London.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
I should have had more of my hands, was just
a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Say how many hands catches all body catches?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah I had. I did whatever I needed to do
to catch the football. You know, if it was a
hands catch, I'll catch, I'll catch it. I actually picked
off Kurt for a touchdown. Oh, I got Kurt for
a pick six, but he was he was in Arizona.
We're playing our cover too. This is my first year
(33:31):
and I believe, Yeah, this is my first year. And
up in Washington, we go to our cover too and Kurt,
Kurt throws the football pass was his receiver kind of
misread the routing. I said, Kurt, thank you, you throw
a great ball, and I took it back to the house. Man,
it's one of my great memories.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Wow, did you go back to tell him?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
He's well aware of it, My dude. I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Nineteen forest almost thirty nine sacks, four pro bulls should
have been more, sixteen seasons.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Never missed a game. That's Look. If that's not Hall
of Fame, I don't know what is.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Man.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
So this has been great, London man, thank you for
coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
All right, Man, I enjoyed it. All right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's a wrap on another episode of Rams Iconic. I
hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.
It was great, London. Fletcher is unbelievable. Do not forget
to hit that subscribe button, And if you'd be so kind,
go ahead and leave us a review. Let us know
which Rams legend you'd like to hear from next. And
there is still time to be among the first to
experience sofar stadium.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
You've got to get in there.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
To purchase either season tickets or single game tickets, visit
the rams dot com slash tickets. That's the rams dot
com slash tickets. Thank you for listening. I'm DeMarco far
and we'll see you next time on rams Iconic
Welcome to the Rams Iconic.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm your host of Marco far and this is the
podcast where you get to catch up with some of
the greatest players in Rams history.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I love my job.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's a chance for you to take a trip down
memory lane, or let me trip you down memory lane
and reminisce about some of the greatest moments you've had
as Rams fans. But it's also an opportunity to introduce
to some of you, the newer fans, the iconic players
that made this franchise what it is. Right now, my
next guest played four of us sixteen years in the
NFL for the Saint Louis Rams. Undrafted out of Division three,
(00:41):
John Carroll in nineteen ninety eight, a.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Four time pro bowler, should be a lot more.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You'll hear about that soon, finish his career with two
thirty nine career tackles. That's two thirty nine car Rex
That ranks second all time in NFL history, only behind
the one and only Ray Lewis. He is just one
of six players in the history of the NFL to
start two hundred and fifty consecutive games, and he was
(01:08):
a member of our world champion Saint Louis Rams team
in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Please welcome in the Venerable one. London Fletcher, I know
you played with you.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We're going to get into that for a hot but
the thing that comes out is you were an alternate
eleven times before you actually made the Pro Bowl. And
that's the jersey from the from when you finally made it. Yeah,
I mean when you see that jersey, what feelings come
out for you?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, it's a couple of different feelings. One of the
obviously great pride because I accomplished that, but also just
a disappointment too because it took me so long to
finally get that recognition that I knew I deserved, you know,
early in my career, even during my days with the Rams.
(01:57):
You know our Super Bowl, Yeah, very I you know,
I deserve to make the Pro Bowl that year. I
can remember coach coach for mel I know, I know
you remember that meeting when he announced all the Pro
Bowls who made the team. You were one of the guys. Yeah,
Kevin Carter, you know, all the offensive guys, Kurt Isaac,
(02:17):
you know, Marshall Orlando, all those guys, and he also
announced the the alternates and he he mentioned mentions my
name and he comes up and he's like laces and uh,
you know, he's whispering this. In my end, I say, hell,
I deserve to make that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Team, you know, you know me?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So yeah, that's like I was. I was extremely disappointed
because knowing what our defense did that year. In our offense,
they get they guarded the headlines, but we were a
dominant group defensively and I was a major part of
that defense, and you know, for me to not get
that recognition. And then I saw the guys who got
(02:56):
voted over men, I think, you know, one guy who
was voted ahead of me as an alternate, I think
I have a second auctmen. The first aultnanth had missed
like half the season. I'm like, wow, come on, are
you serious? So yeah, you know, it's uh. It definitely
was frustrating, but I was happy that I finally was
able to make it. But definitely, you know, when I
see just four Pro bowls next to my man, We're like,
(03:17):
this is ridiculous. One.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You know, I totally feel you, and I remember that
meeting and before you came to the RAMS, I was
going through what you were going through. Like, man, I
know I'm better than this, or I deserve some reposition,
and it really drives you. It hurts you everything you
think about not making the Pro Bowl when you think
you should, you're right, But I do struggle with this,
(03:39):
and I'll ask you, did you need that recognition. I'm
not sure if I did, because when it finally happened,
it was good, But I mean, I don't I don't
know if I really needed that recognition.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
When when you say need, it's like it wasn't going
to I was gonna play my game regardless. I was
gonna do the same things I did on the football game,
football field regardless, and the way I went about my
business in the meeting rooms, in the locker room, I
was gonna still do all those things. But I appreciated
that recognition to know because you watched the film you
(04:15):
like you mentioned earlier where you said you knew you
were you should have been making Pro Bos because you
watched the film, you see the guys who are who
are playing, who are getting voted in, and it's like, man,
I'm doing better than these guys or as good as
these guys, and for whatever reason, I'm not getting that recognition.
So you feel a certain way about it, and so
(04:36):
I won't say I needed it, but I appreciated it
no doubt.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Taking the field the first time in Hawaii was was awesome,
and being in that huddle was awesome. And seeing all
those dudes that, like you said, we saw on film.
And finally I get to be here so I can say, yeah,
me too, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You know what what actually upset me the and you
were you can appreciate this because you were a Nike guy.
When you get over to uh Hawaii and they had
the Nike sweet I think they had, and they give
you all those those swags. I'm the big duffel bags
full of this swag and shoes and all that stuff
as one of their pro bowlers. And you know, I
(05:19):
was my first year I made it. I was with
Reebok and they just loaded me up. Man, you gotta
ship all your stuff back because you can't. You can't
take back all this uh this this product that they
give you. I mean, it's you know, it's just so
much stuff. And I was more upset about that, Like, man,
I should have you know about thirty duffle backs full
of stuff because all the year that I, uh, you know,
(05:41):
but that was that was pretty cool. And then they
you know, they set it out for you. Your kids
are able to come up to the suite, wife and
you know, so that part of it. I was more
upset about that.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
You know, I had more fun at the pool than
I did at the game. Oh you're taking around, you
know what I mean, telling stories?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
But yeah, absolutely, after I was the Pro Bowl, I
was hot. We'll delete that part.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Hey man, it's twenty twenty one. You're all good.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I'm hot.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I'm out about the see so something else that that
binds us besides three the hard way me, you and
Ray Agnew. When I read your bio, something else jumps
out undrafted. I'm still not over it. I'm still mad.
I still I still look at the numbers today of
the dudes that were ahead of me, just to make
sure I'm right.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
How do you feel about being undrafted? How much did
that drive you?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
It drove me, I would say, you know, early in
my career, just because I knew I knew I was,
I had a couple of different knocks against me. You know,
you and I both undersize far our positions. You know,
quote unquote undersized you being what six one six feet
defensive tackle me, you know, straight on. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly,
(06:56):
so you know, you it was. It was something that
I used as a motivation and chip on my shoulder
for for my first several years. But then after you
get into the league, for you know, three four or
five years, you kind of like, all right, I, you know,
kind of put that to the side and figure out
other things to motivate me. But I always found something
(07:17):
to piss me off. Man. You know, I was walking angry.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You know what, you were the guy that got me
into DMX got rested sholder. You did about it, but
I didn't hear about it until you started playing. I'm like,
let me get into this a little.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Bit, man.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I was.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I was telling some guys that I'm a golfer now.
So I was on the golf course the other day
and you know, you played music on the golf course
and I had my DMX going, said, I used to
listen to DMX before every game. Yeah, I was in
Saint Louis. But just getting back to you know, you
being undrafted. I played at a small school, Division III
school and then I was undersized. But you you played
(07:55):
at Washington you know, pack packed, twelve pack ten. I
can't remember exactly what. Yeah, back then, I'm sure you
put up great numbers at that during your college career,
but some people just couldn't get over the fact that
man the six to one, and you know, don't just
ignore the productivity. You're doing this against elite players, guys
(08:17):
who are getting drafted, and you're doing this and dominating
those guys that got drafted.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know what's funny, London, I see scouts and I
get more love, you know, you get more from you
get love from players you played against and played with definitely,
and then you see coaches that were with you or
coached against you and they give you love. But I
get a lot of love from scouts, and I get
the feeling it was kind of like, how dare you
(08:43):
be better than what I thought you were?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, they would always make a point to say, well,
I had you down at this grade, you know what
I mean, Like, how dare you be better than what
we thought this six ' one, two hundred and eighty
pound defensive tackle could be?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah? Do you did you get that same feeling?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You know? It's uh, it's funny when when I when
I run into scouts and they be like, man, I
missed on you. Great, great example. This is this is crazy.
So Bill Pollion, hall of fame general manager, you know,
doing his uh career at a Buffalo Holts Carolina Panthers.
(09:24):
His son's actually yeah, his sons actually went to John Carroll.
And one of his sons, Brian Pollian his senior year.
Brian was my my backup at my position my junior year,
and uh Bill, he came to every game and so
he saw me my junior year and I was I
was all American that year, all over the football field.
(09:46):
And then you know, senior year had an even a
better year. Uh didn't. He didn't draft me. But we
went to I don't know if you remember, we went
to Indy and we used to scrimage the coats up
in Indiana, and so, uh Bill Polly and try to
He asked Charlie Army if if he was going to
if they were gonna cut me, because if they were,
(10:06):
they wanted uh, they wanted me, and so son, Charlie's like, nah,
we're not gonna cut him. He's like, well will you
will you trade him to us? So Charlie's like now
I'm not gonna do that, but but the situation is here.
You know, you got this Hall of Fame GM who
had who knew me before anybody knew me. I mean,
(10:27):
and he saw what I was doing. I mean I
wrecked shop d on that on that football field and
his guys. I don't know what they graded me or
whatever the case may be, but they didn't draft me.
So it was just it's just funny how things work out.
It's just I mean, you can play or you can't.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Like Aaron Donald, great example, right, I mean he's undersized,
but the dude can play. So some dudes they just
they let the the hightwave speed and the charts, you.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Know, over override with their I c is a dude
making play that hard?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Can't You can't measure a man's heart, no doubt, determination
that that something inside of you. That's when you and
I don't know, you know, if you you really if
you're a scout, that's why I think when you get
down and you really talk to somebody, and if they
talked talk to you when you were coming out your
passion for playing a game, I'm sure it would have
it would have came out in an injurview process, and
(11:23):
you look at that and say, you know what, this
guy's desire to be great will overcome all that other.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Stuff, No doubt. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I remember Tony Dunee telling a story about work done
his first meeting. He has work done. Hey, what's what
do you think? What's the best thing you do on
a football field? He said score touchdowns. Tony lean back
and said drafting. That's all you need to know. Two
thousand tackles, London, You've never missed you never missed a
(11:54):
game in sixteen years. Two thousand tackles, never missed a
game in sixteen years. And we're having a coherent conversation.
How how how did.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You do this? Where did this come from? You?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And Alan Page? Are you from a different planet? Where
did this come from?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Man? I, you know, just just a love for the game.
I missed a game in high school because of an injury.
I had an ankle injury. That it was a high
ankle spraying, I guess knowing it now, And I wasn't
able to play that next weekend. And so I'm sitting
on the sideline and I was miserable because I'll see
(12:34):
my teammates out there and they're having fun and I'm
missing out on that fun. And I just I from
that point on, I was like, I'm never missing another game,
if not for injury. If I can, if I can get,
if I can walk, I'm playing the game. And that
was my mentality. You know, God giving up, you know,
blessing and how the way he kind of made me durable.
(12:55):
You know, this lower body, big button. All those things
came because I've had yeah, I've had some some some
things where I may have hyper extended a knee where
other guys may have you know, blown their knee out
because you know, just the way guy made me, but
also the way I uh took care of my body
and just learned from guys like yourself, Mike Jones, Todd Collins,
(13:17):
all those guys didn't learn me.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You learned what not to do for me.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, just like even like the hide and the cold
top early. You know, I used to watch you guys.
I didn't. I didn't. I wasn't getting in the hot
tub or cold to prior to coming to to the
rams and just watching you guys how you how you
took care of yourselves getting massages. Todd Collins was the
guy who convinced me to get massages, like look, you
got to get besides like all right, just those types
(13:46):
of things, and really a desire to be out there
on that football field with my teammates and for my teammates,
and and taking care of my body. And then guys
Grace and Mercy.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I got a few great memories. One is a play.
One is when I first saw you.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It was that into ninety seven, going into ninety eight, right,
so second year of vermil Right, So new people are
coming through the building and you ask people who are
you what position do you play? And I remember you
said middle linebacker, and Remike, we went. We went from
Eric Hill or no, Robert Jones to Eric Hill and
(14:23):
we're still trying to find that guy.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So we're like, okay, well he won't be here long.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That first practice, Who did you grab by the face
mask and just start beating up?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Was it Gruda door here? I think it might have
been our study center.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
No, it was it was the guard. It was that. Yeah,
it was one of the guards. It wasn't Gruded Dory.
It was okay, it was one of the guards.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Man.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
He tried, he tried me. You yeah, you remember we
had they had me in sixty six. Yes, surgery number
was sixty six. So this guy was looking at me
like a man, This guy wearing number sixty six, he's,
you know, a short linebacker. You can like, I almost
take advantage of him. And it was a running play
and play was over and or the play had been made,
(15:09):
and he's trying to drive block me, you know, down
the field. So man, you've met the wrong guy. It
was on so well, I don't know if you remember
when we were fighting. Then I see all these linemen
just running from towards me. Yeah, and where I'm from.
(15:29):
If you run it to the you're running at me.
You want to fight too, So I just start swinging
on everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yes, right, I remember that. That's the first day we
took notes. And then of course you became the starter.
And it's funny, I just did one of these with
Kurt Warner. You and him got your first start in
that forty nine er game the year before we won
the Super Bowl, right ninety eight? Yes, yeah, that was
(15:55):
your first start, so you became the starter. So my
third memory of you was it going into the playoffs
and that ninety nine season, I think our practices were
the best practices league wide ever, I mean, not a
ball hit the ground. We were letter perfect on defense.
Attention to detail was how special teams was great. But
I remember, was it going into the playoffs. You and
(16:16):
I were sitting on one of those little carts, I think,
and it was just too much Lucy goosey going on
and I was laughing, and you snapped on me like like.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Hey, lock it in. Do you remember that moment?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know. I just we had
great fun with Our practices were phenomenal, like you said,
but you can kind of sense when something is not
where it needs to be, and guys are just you know,
it's not like we need to be. This is not
our standards. So yeah, I remember that I snapped because
(16:54):
we were just joking around too much. Yes, that that
was definitely.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I don't know what it was, but it just how
it was wired.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think it was after Carolina, after we had been
I think we were already qualified for the playoffs, or
maybe we were going into a playoff game, but it
was one of the moments where we could where we
felt like we could relax a little bit and exhale
a little bit and a little bit and I'm so
glad that you you got me right and in that moment,
because it was right. We need to be focused all
the way through, every single moment if we're gonna get
(17:25):
this thing done.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And finally we did.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
We look at the results on Sunday or game day
and think that's you know, when you win the game,
the game is won during the week of preparation leading
up to you know, your film study, to practice, how
you prepare on that football field going into that game,
and you know what looks like a great practice, like
(17:49):
you mentioned the ball not touching the ground, being on
point defensively and all those types of things. And when
you when it doesn't look like it's supposed to look
my job as a middle linebacker or your job as
a veteran guy. You know you've called us out too defensively, Hey,
when we weren't doing what we need to do. You
you know you you used to snap on us too,
(18:10):
so and that's that's where it's one thing for a
coach to hold you accountable. It's another thing when your
teammate holds you accountable. And that's when you say, Okay,
I need to step up my game.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
You know, Uh, Ray agnew, that's that's our brother, that's
our guy.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I'm so happy for him. Yeah, well in Detroit, I
really do.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
But we had a pact between us that we were
gonna be the last two d tackle standing. And I'm
so glad you brought me back to reality because it's
actually three of us three the hard way knows that
tackle and linebacker against the world. Yes, right, Uh, just
(18:52):
being in the middle being I mean in the thick
of things, being in the Super Bowl when they are
running the ball at us, you know, time and time again.
I mean it's really it's like is this sledgehammer ever
gonna break? Which one is gonna break first? I know
I was dead tired, and I know we can make
jokes about it, but that second half was about as
extended as I became as an athlete in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I had nothing left. Where were you in that fourth
fourth quarter in that in that Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
You know we I mean, if you think about it,
we had the way that game kind of transpired in
the in the second half, we were on a field
of an awfully long time and I had a while ago.
I actually had a stat I think we were out
of those that what thirty minutes in the second half,
I think we on to feel like twenty one minute.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
It was something ridiculous, ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Because our offense score fast, but they also had a
bunch of three and owns in the second half and
things like that, and you know, and Tennessee wasn't They
weren't a quick strike offense. It was just methodical, grind
you out, grind you off. And I was tired. But
if you think back to our training camp, and you know,
my first training camp in ninety nine, I mean ninety
(20:05):
eight training camp in ninety nine, and then even you
guys training camp in ninety seventy, and you all talked
about how difficult those training camp, that training camp was.
We were being built for that drive back in ninety seven,
ninety eight, ninety nine and training camp where we could
have easily broken training camp because at Macomb heat and
(20:29):
you know that that that humidity, But because we were
so tough mentally and physically, we weren't gonna let them
see us. They weren't gonna break our wheel.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, we'll be here.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
If we have to go at the extra quarter, we
will go in the extra quarter because we've trained mentally
and physically for that. So I was, Yes, I was tired,
but I wasn't. I wasn't gonna let them know it.
And we were gonna win that game.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
No doubt. You know you didn't have Bruce Matthews hanging
all over Benji Olson three and.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
The other side. You know what I mean. Hey, you
guys did a great.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
You and you, you and right did a great job.
Even me clean Ray Ray Agnew who played the nose, Yeah,
he would be upset if he let a center get
up on me. The man flesh, my bad man, like
it really hurt Ray if you allowed a linemen to
get up on me.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
And I appreciated that. I had a little bit more juice.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
It's team defense, right, if you can make the play,
make We had a rule. If you can make the play,
if you're gonna go freelance, you know you got to
make because we're singing three guys at you if we make,
if we miss, and.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
The whole defense is at risk.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
But if we hold up you guys, we expect that
linebacker to make the play.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
And I'm telling you, oh yeah, and it.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Was hell before you became a star.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
You know what what kills me is when I see
you know, you'll see guys taking on a double team
and a linebacker just holding back, and a lot of
times their coaches aren't coaching them to attack. To get
that double team off that line and man, help them out,
you know, and free up some one on ones and
things like that. You'll make more tackles for Lost. Get
(22:12):
that lineman, give him some help. But you see guy
just hovering and not committing, and when meanwhile their tackles
getting pounded. We also we had another nickname we called
the Bermuda triango because you know you were going to
disappear in that middle, you go doubt.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I remember in the Super Bowl they kept moving us
around and I wind up on the nose, uh, and
they would try to scoop me with that center, and
I just know all I had to do was cut
him off right and make Eddie George cut back.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And I think, did you have two tackles for Loss
on like the same run?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, yeah, I had. I had a few tackles for Lost, Yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, he was talking trash, like, you know, engage fight me.
I'm like, why mon is gonna make the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah? Right, exactly?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, we're at level yeah, man, But you're right. The
ninety seven ninety eight he eased up in ninety nine.
Coach Ramil loved him. There were moments where you couldn't
stand him where he turned the stone on you if
you you know, bitch and complained about how hard it was.
But London, you're exactly right, man. He was building us
for that last drive. If we didn't have that, we
(23:21):
fold probably Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
We're sitting here super Bowl champs. But you know that's
the other thing.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You had another shout at it in Saint Louis And
I asked you this when when I first asked you
to come on. So if it's sensitive, I'll stop asking
about it. But are you okay now with being an
NFC champion because that is a remarkable ass achievement. That
team was dynamite and I know you didn't win, but
can you look back now and say we were a
(23:50):
great football team.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
We didn't finish the job, we were a great We
were a great football team, no doubt. We won I
think fourteen games during the regular season. Yeah, was dynamic. Defensively,
we were one of the tops in the league. Different
type of defense than what when we went we played
in ninety nine. Yeah, Hampa to a lot of younger
guys too, didn't have all the same type of veteran experience,
(24:16):
but still a dynamic defense. The I haven't I haven't
never watched the that Super Bowl game. You know, I
still have memories from from certain plays that happened. But
you know, as I look back at that game, and
I didn't, I don't feel like we played our best
game offensively or defensively, you know, special teams wise, all
(24:39):
those things. And you know, you get the conversations about
spy game and all those things and what happened didn't happen.
I don't. I don't get too caught up in that
because I always like to look inside and say, did
we play our best football? Regardless of if Spygate happened.
We didn't play our best football do defensively, offensively collectively
(25:02):
and even you know you mentioned, you know, practice and
a couple of years ago when you were with us,
I mean the Super Bowl League practice of leading up
to the Super Bowl. I didn't feel like we had
our best practices the week of the Super Bowl, you know,
from a defense standpoint, and even offensively, we're down in
New Orleans we had to beat the Patriots in Foxborough
(25:24):
that year. We're a fourteen point favorite going into that game.
If you look at that Patriots team, you know, yeah,
Tom Brady is Tom Brady what you know what he
has sended to be now. But back then, they weren't
putting everything on his shoulder and saying go out and
beat him, beat us. It was more of a ball
control offense. They run some gadgets and you know, make
(25:47):
some players on third down. Yeah, it was just yeah,
it was just a situation off Defensively, they had some
veteran guys, but you know, Tyler was was great, and
some great guys in the second day. But you know,
when you look at man and man across the board,
could they match up with our receivers? You know, no.
But they had a great game plan. And I don't
(26:07):
think we played our best game. We didn't. We didn't.
I didn't feel like our practices were up to the
standard of what we are accustomed to going into that game.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You know that's funny, man. I talked to Tory and
Isaac and I didn't ask. I'll ask you because we're closer.
They're on offense and they may get bad the Hall
of Fame for you, it's it's something that needs to happen,
and it just it's all perception and it drives me nuts.
But I wonder, does your Hall of Fame profile increase
(26:40):
or chances of getting in increased if you got the
second ring?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Absolutely, I think everyone. I think Tory and Isaac are
already in if they got the second ring.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You know what I mean? Yes, absolutely, because when you win,
I mean they can't help, but say, hey, you know
you're gonna you're gonna take a bunch of players off
off teams that win Super Bowls. And you know, Isaac
is going in this year. Victoria will eventually get in,
And if we had won two Super Bowls, he'd already
(27:10):
be in. And then myself, you know, being a start
on two Super Bowl teams, I've been you know, overlooked
the last few years. I feel like I would have
already been in because my numbers are first BALLID numbers.
You got two thousand tackles, Look, yeah, the numbers are
first BALLID numbers. The one knot that you can say, well,
(27:32):
you know I only have four Pro Bowls. Well, I
just told you what the death problem is with the
Pro Bowl and the way it's voting, there's no way
I should only have four Pro bowl I should have
at least a minimum ten Pro Bowls in multiple All pros.
And then when you a couple in the fact I
got one Super Bowl, you throwing another Super Bowl. It's
I mean, it's a it's a rap, it's you know,
slam dunk case. But you know, we we didn't accomplish it.
(27:55):
We didn't finish the job. Hats off to them. They
they they played a good football game. Yeah, but I
didn't feel like I didn't feel like we played our
best football game. And based on what I had seen,
the way we played all season long, those prior previous
eighteen games and the way we practice, I mean we
(28:19):
just everything when you look at everything holistically, Yeah, that
wasn't our best performance as a team.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So we do something on the show called my favorite Play.
If you can go back and think, what was your
favorite play as a RAM, describe it?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Take me to I know you got one.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, man, that's you should have gave a guy heads
up for that. Yeah, favorite player as a RAM the
Mike Jones tackle in the Super Bowl. That's definitely that
has to be the number one play. Oh, I was
covering that that play, I was covering Eddie George and
(28:59):
you know the date he ran out to the flat.
I'm kind of looking at him, and I'm looking at
Steve McNair and of hoping he doesn't tucking and run.
So that's that's gonna be number one. Man, I can't.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I don't have did you bust this out?
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I don't have a favorite play for me like I
played that I made, man, I used to.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I love hitting people.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So everything about you, I mean, you remember the bad
plays versus the good players.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
We had a did we take a kickoff return back
in the in the playoff game against Minnesota?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah? I think it was the opening kickoff second half.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
So that's gonna be up there. Yeah, because I was,
I was, I was Tony horns lea blocker, Yeah, be
up there and that that kind of that kind of
sparked us. Let's see defensive plan. I can't, I can't
think of another. You gotta be one, DeMarco. I made
a lot of players aside, but I've made a whole
(30:01):
lot of play.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
That's true. That's true. Wow, that's funny. You made too
many players? Remember how about coach Formil. I mean when
you came in and that relationship and him and them
giving you a chance and getting it right, working us
to death, but having a plan and then having it
payoff to me. I am so glad he became our
(30:25):
coach during that time. Without him, we don't do what
we did. How do you feel about Coach for Miill?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
No, you're absolutely right. I love Coach for Miill, still
keeping contact with them to this day. You look at
Coach for Mill and how he built that football team
and he gave underdogs and long shots of true opportunity
to make a football team and didn't care where you
were drafted and how you entered the league and all
(30:51):
those types of things. If you can play football and
you worked hard and you're a good teammate and you
did it the right way, he was he was going
to give you a true opportunity to make his football
team and if you played well, you're going to be
on this team. And I'm forever indebted to him because
at the time he entrusted me to be a his
(31:12):
start middle linebacker. That was his third year as the
head coach. You know, had to losing seasons prior to that,
and you know, we all knew he was on the
hot seat. If if you know, we didn't win, more
than likely he was going to get fired. But you know,
to say, hey, I'm gonna get the keys to this
undrafted free agent five to ten linebacker out of John
(31:36):
Carroll University to play the middle linebacker position that the
spot that I mean this is extremely important on the defense,
and say, you know, even though my job's on the line,
I trust this guy. So you know my hat I'll
forever be in debted to coach for mill coach form MIIL.
When you look at his resume, this is another guy
that you know, the Hall of Fame needs to look at.
(31:57):
When you look at what he was able to accomplish
and Phillip del for you Saint Louis, and then also
what he was able to accomplish in Kansas City. Yeah,
when you up with those those three places and his
full body of work, hockeld he not be in the
Hall of Fame. So it's it's a it's a process
that you know in a system that needs to be remedied. Yeah,
(32:19):
you know, figure out a way to make it because
there's so many people that are that get overlooked year
and a year out, and I know, you know it's
only five five modern era players, and you know only
a couple of coaches that go in every year. But
you got to figure out a way to to to
remedy that situation.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I feel you.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, man, I figured coach for mil will get his
due once the Curt Warner movie comes out, because once
they really figure out what happened and what he did
in Saint Louis with that football team, then I think
you'll get his due. But like you said, he believed
in you, and here you are. Twenty thirty nine tackles,
twenty three picks, that's the one that jumped out, twenty
(32:58):
three interceptions.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
They threw you the ball twenty three times, London.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
I should have had more of my hands, was just
a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Say how many hands catches all body catches?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah I had. I did whatever I needed to do
to catch the football. You know, if it was a
hands catch, I'll catch, I'll catch it. I actually picked
off Kurt for a touchdown. Oh, I got Kurt for
a pick six, but he was he was in Arizona.
We're playing our cover too. This is my first year
(33:31):
and I believe, Yeah, this is my first year. And
up in Washington, we go to our cover too and Kurt,
Kurt throws the football pass was his receiver kind of
misread the routing. I said, Kurt, thank you, you throw
a great ball, and I took it back to the house. Man,
it's one of my great memories.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Wow, did you go back to tell him?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
He's well aware of it, My dude. I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Nineteen forest almost thirty nine sacks, four pro bulls should
have been more, sixteen seasons.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Never missed a game. That's Look. If that's not Hall
of Fame, I don't know what is.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Man.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
So this has been great, London man, thank you for
coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
All right, Man, I enjoyed it. All right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's a wrap on another episode of Rams Iconic. I
hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.
It was great, London. Fletcher is unbelievable. Do not forget
to hit that subscribe button, And if you'd be so kind,
go ahead and leave us a review. Let us know
which Rams legend you'd like to hear from next. And
there is still time to be among the first to
experience sofar stadium.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
You've got to get in there.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
To purchase either season tickets or single game tickets, visit
the rams dot com slash tickets. That's the rams dot
com slash tickets. Thank you for listening. I'm DeMarco far
and we'll see you next time on rams Iconic
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