On this episode of Rams Iconic, Hall of Fame coach Dick Vermeil joins D’Marco Farr to talk about how he started coaching in the NFL, his brief stint in broadcasting, why he decided to take the Rams head coaching position, and what it meant to bring the first Super Bowl trophy to the Rams franchise.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Rams Iconic presented by eighteen hundred Tequila, the
best taste in tequila. Please drink responsibly. I'm DeMarco Farr
and this is the podcast where we catch up with
some of the most iconic players and coaches in franchise history.
My next guest was a head coach in the NFL
for fifteen seasons, and he won one hundred and twenty games.
I got to talk about all that stuff, and although
he was only with the team head coach of the
(00:28):
Rams for three years, he will always always be remembered
for bringing the franchise its first Super Bowl title. Please
welcome in, and I love saying this. Pro Football Hall
of Famer and my coach Dick for Meal. Coach, what
is happening? Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's exciting to line up with you, believe me.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Just sitting here, my pulse rates up, but another twenty beats.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Let's go run laps. Come on me and you well.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
With artificial hips. They don't run much anymore. You got
artificial hips. Bow to them, both of them, and a pull
growing Other than that, I'm not getting old.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
How'd you pull your groin?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Would you? Actually? I'd love to be a I will
tell you it was an exotic sto.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh it was. I was starting a power mover, power
mover down on one knee power I guess I keep
cranking out pretty quick, bang it goes.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So you were going to make that thing start work. Yeah,
I was going to make it start I know, I know.
I love this coach. I'm looking at this and you
told me this once and I don't know the story.
You were one of the first special teams coaches in
the NFL. Yeah, the very first, the very first special
teams What did the NFL do before they actually hired
coaches because that's not an easy job.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
No, they divided the responsibilities up amongst the staff and
they did. They worked on it Friday, at the end Saturday.
It wasn't an everyday routine. And George Allen was the
guy that recognized it was a negative within the performance
of his football team, and that's why he decided to
hire a special teams coach and he in postseason in
(01:52):
nineteen sixty eight, evaluated all the kickoff coverages and punt
coverages and they were beaten in a big time game
by a kickoff return for a touchdown, and in evaluating
all the kickoff returns that year in terms of coverage,
the guys that missed the tackle hadn't made a tackle
all year. Wow, But they didn't know it. And he said,
(02:12):
you know, I have to have someone supervising coaches on
a daily basis. And that's why he decided to hire
a special teams coach. Unfortunately it was me.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Did they think he was crazy? I mean, because that's innovative.
Never happened. Why do you guys worried about special teams
at the rest of the league thinking he was crazy
or wow, this guy's a genius.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
No. I you know, George was always given credit for
being innovative. You know, he was the first nickel guy.
He was the first six pack guy. I was on
the field I think the very first time a six
pack defensive team played a game. You know, six defensive backs.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh, six defensive backs? Oh wow?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay. And he took great pride in being willing to
be different and and it paid off for me. Won
seventy one or two percent of his games. That's why
he's in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Do we call that dime now? Six defensive backs? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
There's all kinds of different name yea be a dime, nicol.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And nickel and dime.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So he was the first to come up with that.
And you were coaching, did you have teams meetings every
single day, every day, every day?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah? And every player yeah, yeah, he it was so
important to him, you know, the Deacon Jones and the
Merlin Olson's they were in on specific you know specific
uh like Pat rush field goal rush and that kind
of stuff. But nobody was excluded on the roster from
being on a special team with George.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Wow. So that's how you, I guess, cut your teeth
talking to the entire team. Oh yes, so you started
your head coaching career that day when you became special
teams coaching.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah. So you know, I'd been a head coach in
high school. Yeah, I'd been a head coach in junior college.
So at least I had the opportunity to grow and
make presentations in front the entire teams all along through
my career, which was really an advantage for me.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Is that nerve wracking?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
No, it's a learning experience each time.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I mean going in front of men.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Get it was. It was the very first time I
went in front of the UH then the Rams out
of Fullerton. Yeah, because George Allen set in on the
first meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh boy, I was really bosses right then you.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Got all these guys there, Maxi, Bond, Jack Party, you know,
Eddie Medder, Richie Pettibond, these guys, Myrtle and Olsen. You
know I was uptight, believe me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, I bet you did good. I mean I used
to well, I used to love your speeches. They always
had a theme. But going back to this so special teams.
Then you spend seven years in Philly. Yeah, you take
them to a super Bowl, and then you retire and
go into the booth for fifteen fourteen years, fourteen years?
How was that? How was that transition? You know?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I learned a lot. I gott myself back in control
of myself as a person, and I watched other coaches coach.
The first five years DeMarco, I did ninety percent NFL
games and then college bowl games. The next nine years,
I did ninety five percent, ninety percent college games and
then NFL playoff games. So I was always watching other
(04:53):
coaches coach, and also sitting in locker rooms talking to
guys like you, yeah, yeah, you know and learning, listen
how they think and all that, and I really added
depth to my knowledge of what the NFL is all about.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So you, like you said, get in control of you.
So stopping was stopping coaching when you left Philly, it
was to get control of yourself. When did it start
to turn for you? Like I missed being on the field,
I missed being down.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
There well every time I would to a game every time.
Oh yeah, you know, I wished it, But I was
an insecure I was a little I didn't want to
end up in the hole that I left. You know,
as a person I was. I was a wreck and
I was my own worst enemy. I wasn't a good
listener to people to give you advice. And I just
(05:39):
like I said, I just burned myself out. Today they
might call it depression or some psychological term, but really
I was just burnout emotionally and my own personal makeup
is has to be better controlled. When you're in an
NFL situation and the intensity and the pressures and the
demand of that job, you've got to be total control.
(06:02):
And at the end when I left, I knew I
needed a.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Break, time for a break. And then you ninety seven
you decide or was it ninety six? When did you
decide to come back?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, you know, I'd had opportunities to go back before,
the number of them and the RAMS had offered me
opportunities prior to that, and I said no. But when
Johnshaw called and I went back there and visited with him,
I said, you know, if I don't go back now,
I never will. I'll be too old. And plus John
had been nice enough and respectful enough to offer me
(06:33):
these opportunities prior to this time. Yeah, so I said,
all right, let's go do it. And I was very fortunate.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
How politely say no to a head coaching job in
the NFL?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, you know I said no to the Eagles. Originally
I was sitting in my office when they called me
after we won the Rose Bowl. Yeah, and I said
I wasn't interested because I thought we could win a
national championship there. And then four days later I went
and met with him. You know, when I had coaches
like George Allen, Chuck Knox and tell me, Dick, you're crazy.
And my coaching staff said, Dick, you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Listen job.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
You got to go listen to him. So I went
over and listened to him and ended up taking.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
A job ninety seven. I mean, how did you pick
I'll say us because I was already on the team.
How did you pick us in ninety seven? Did you
look at the roster? Did you see video? Did you
see something in us?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, you know it's sets a long process. It's not
any one film study and the video study, and as
it is on computers today, it's a total evaluation, time
consuming thing. But you know picking you is easy. Oh
you have to do you watch it Probay, watch your practice.
You know you you didn't know how to take a
slow step. No, so you evaluate character of players by
(07:43):
the effort he makes every day. Plus John Becker was
on the staff there, and I kept some guys on
the staff that were there, and we talked and discussed
personnel every day. And since as a head coach of
my staff and I we had control of the final
decisions as to who we keep on the roster, you know,
including salary cap and who we draft. And Charlie Army
(08:05):
and John Becker and staff did a great job and
we all worked together. And you know there were nine
of you on the original roster that played in the
Super Bowl. The restaurant. Gone. Yeah, so we kept the
right nine guys.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
You did. Look. I mean Tory was sitting Tory Holt
was here and he was sitting where you were sitting,
and we were talking about he was talking about his
rookie year and when he lined up, he looked around
and said, look at all this talent and he could
not believe that we only won nine games in two
years before that. I'm like, I didn't know that either,
and I was on the team. I thought we were
always a play away from being in the playoffs. I mean,
(08:38):
when did you know going into I guess year three
that we had a chance to be special.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well before I went to training camp, I met with
John Shaw and I say, the president of the team.
I said, John, this is going to be a playoff
football team. And you know he said to me, he said,
don't tell me that. Coaches tell me that every year.
And he's been through some coaches. Yeah, And I said,
I'm some cheer is there's too much talent on it.
There's too much, Eric Donner. They have worked harder than
any team in pro football to get to where they
(09:04):
are today. We're going to back off a little bit
on them. In this surgero. They'll recognize the difference in
practice and the amount of times they have pads now.
But this team is ready to play well. They're structured,
fundamentally sound, they're disciplined, they listen, they care about each other,
and this is gonna be a good football team. No
way could I predict they could end up being what
they ended up being.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, well, I mean I guess that's the thing. I mean,
everyone asked me. I'm sure they ask you what made
that team so special? And I asked Tory that question
and he we both said we were just so professional,
we did care about each other. And then I thought
when I was waiting for you, maybe it was those
hard practices.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Oh, no question. No, hard work never hurt anybody, is it. Yeah, Hey,
if you want things you've never had, you got to
do things you've never done. And you guys have never
worked like that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
See what I mean? This is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Say that again one more time.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I said, if you want things you've never had, you've
got to do things you've never done.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Oh my god, I have never worked so hard in
my life.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I know it. And you recognize when we backed off
in the third year, you guys came to practice with
a smile on your face.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Because if we lose, we might go back to the
old one.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But you know, yeah, and that's how we built our culture. Yeah,
you know, and when people start appreciating the effort they
make because of the results they get, it multiplies within
an organization and it's unbelievable psychological momentum. How you play
on a week in, a week out basis.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's true. We were going to talk to Mike Jones,
our guy the tackle, and I remember the first time
I saw him because I didn't know him. I mean,
it was us against the world, and here's this new
guy in the weight room and I was listening to
him doing power cleans, and the reps kept getting going
deeper and deeper, like sixteen eighteen reps. I'm like, this
dude works so hard. He may be he may be
(10:46):
the one that could actually take it because some of
those years we had guys running for the door. Oh yeah, yeah,
we ran guys out of that room. I mean I
felt proud about that as a.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Player, no question. And you know, and Mike was a
free agent, yeah, and we brought him in out of
the free agent market. He was a converted fullback to
linebacker by the Raiders and didn't have a big background.
But Mike White had been the head coach of the
Raiders and he said, this is a character guy you
can build a football team around. You'll you'll want. He
(11:14):
may not be a starter, but chances are he will
be because of his overall character as a man. And
he ended up being a strong, silent leader as well
as you know, he was one.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Of us from the start, and it was amazing. I mean,
a lot of guys we tried to warm up too.
We just couldn't. And you know, the guys that made
it were the guys that made it all right. So
we're in the middle of preseason and I think I
was hurt, but I remember everybody remembers this. It's in
the movie. Yeah, Trick Greed goes down. Trent Green to
that point was on fire.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, like twenty eight for thirty one.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
It was really ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, so there he is.
Your quarterback is on the deck in Saint Louis Your
first thought when you saw.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
That, Well, I felt for him first emotionally. It really
he had worked so hard in his career, never really
been given an opportunity to play. You know, he was
around for seven eight years and never playing a game,
and then he got to play when an injury factor
took place in the old Redskins and he got to
play some games and he played pretty well. We liked him,
John Becker and Charlie Armory and I and then Mike Martz.
(12:17):
We liked him. So that's when we signed him as
a free agent, and we thought we could build a
football team around him, and we the foundation was there.
And then when he went down, I first had compassion
for him, Yeah, because I knew the price he'd paid
to get to this opportunity and now was lost. And
he handled it well, but it was it was a
(12:41):
tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Believe me. See, I'm hurt. I feel bad because I
when I saw him go down, I was mad at
Rodney for doing it, and then I was like, there
it goes. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well the other thing I remember, I remember looking and
seeing Isaac Bruce on his hands and knees banging the turf.
I felt like he because he knew he had the
guy that could throw him the ball. We could be
a team and uh, then he's down, and Isaac was
just distraught, but everyone was Yeah. But I and as
(13:14):
you know, in a leadership role, you've got to take
adversity and use it as a tool to get better,
use it as an ally. And I felt, you know,
I knew what kind of character we had on the
football team, and I thought they would believe me when
I told them we'd play well anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yes, I'm glad you led me right to that. I mean,
where did that line come from? I mean, I know
it was from the heart because I know you, and
I know you at that at that moment.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It wasn't rehearsed around dirt.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Warner and we will play good football, I would say that, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, we were too complete a football team to allow
or to have, Yeah, to have one player determined you
weren't going to be a good football team. But we
had the nucleus was there? Could I tell we were
going to be what we were? No? But I knew
we were going to be a good football team because
even in losing. In losing, there were a lot of
(14:05):
plays on those snaps we are better than our opponent,
and we just couldn't put enough of them together. And
we had Tony Banks, and I love Tony Banks. I
love the guy, but we needed someone was more consistent
in past completion percentages and like yeah, and so Trent
comes in. But you know, every day, I remember the
(14:27):
one advantage of being a head coach and not coaching
a specific position yourself is you watch people every day.
You evaluate people every day. And I would go off
the practice field when Kurt Warner was running our scout team,
oh yeah, offense against our defense, and I'd walk, I'd
call my defensive coaches over and say, guys, either our
(14:50):
defense is lousy or this kid can play.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know, but no way could I determine he could
play like did because you can't determine how he's going
to play under pressure, right, you know, running pass plays
off cards is a lot different than all of a
sudden lining that got a guy the Baltimore Raven's a
good defense.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
In your first career NFL game, Oh yeah, we knew
he could play. I mean, practicing against him, it's it's
our drill. So we're gonna win, right, But and we've
seen several backups. But I mean we always knew Kirk
can play. He's got a whip. He's an athlete, and
he's competitive. That little basketball room he used to play basketball,
oh yeah, and kill us from the from the three
point line. But that game in ninety eight when he
(15:33):
was playing in sand Frind at the end of the year,
twelve snaps, Yeah, but competitive, twelve snaps like yeah, yeah,
I mean we knew the guy could play. So but
when I heard you say that we will rally around
Kurt Warner and play good football, I felt you were
talking to us and question. I thought we were going
to be a running football team until we got to Baltimore. Yeah,
this kid can wing it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know that year we had Tory
Hill was the first round pick. Yeah, people don't realize
I had four other first round picks. Okay, Mike Mart's
first round pick. Okay, yeah, Alice Sanders, there's a first
round pick, first round pick. Yes, I don't do because
the first round pick, John Mascow is a first round pick. Wow.
And those four guys collectively made an unbelievable contribution to everybody,
(16:20):
to me, to you and everybody, and uh making your
decision to let Peter Junta and John Budding run the
defense themselves. Remember we lost, Bud Carson, we did, and
anyways scared me.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, I'm not even gonna lie. Bud Carson scared though, scared.
Oh my god, he was scary.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
But he's had a tone.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
He sure did. Yeah, he was you without the nice part.
Yeah yeah, yeah, wow wow.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Anyway, Yeah, we were very fortunate to have those guys,
and nobody has impacted a team as dramatically as Mike
did taking over that team ready to be good.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So I remember, and I think I was standing there,
I don't know where was when you handed the trophy
to Missfrontier. You said, here you go, here's your trophy,
and we finally got it done from that moment, because
I remember when I got the letter in Hawaii. I
got a letter in Hawaii that you were retiring. We win,
(17:16):
We do it. We get to the mountaintop, you point
down to me, DeMarco, you are a world champion. Everybody
tells me.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think about that. I too, I'll tell you it
makes me am absolutely but I think about that often
to see you, because the price you paid to earn
the right to be a world champion, that makes head coaching,
every every part about it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
See, I know what that means I know what that's about.
And I wasn't the only guy. You did that too,
It was a few guys. Yeah, yeah, I mean it means,
it means a lot. But from that point, so we're
we're we're being drowned in ticker tapes and you're up
on a podium and we're at the top of the mountain.
From from then to retirement.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, you know, I have a I had been coaching
the NFL of the Year before and almost everybody's name
on that trophy had been fired after that. So I said,
nobody's immune to going out of his career in a
negative way. I have an opportunity to go out on
my career in a positive way. Plus, my kids are
(18:25):
having grandchildren and they're all living and I don't hardly
know them, you know, And the family has always been
so important to me. And you remember that my kids
and grandkids come to training camp with you guys carrying
your helmets off the field, and I was missing out
on that. And I said, you know, what a great
opportunity to go out on top.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So then you retire from there, okay. And I know
you never talked about it, and I think you cared
because you love this game, and you love the players
and the men that coach it and play it. When
did you start worrying thinking about the whole fame?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, the first time I ever heard Hall of
Fame was post news conference Super Bowl win. I'm walking
out in Atlanta, in Atlanta, and some guy says to me,
you just bought a ticket to Canton. Wow, something like that,
And it never you mind, wow, never end in my mind.
It really, you know, I've never put myself at the
(19:21):
level of the Shoelers, the Landry's, those kind of guys.
I just it was a high school coach, never turned
down a job when he got a better one. That's
what I looked. And all of a sudden, that guy
said that to me. I said, well, that's a nice compliment,
thank you. But from then on, and then later on,
years go by, I see my name starting to be nominated, nominated, nominated,
(19:43):
And then they changed the format to where now there's
a subcommittee out of the forty eight voters that evaluates
the coaches, because you know, they went twenty five years
and only put eleven coaches in. Oh yeah, so they
were you know, a lot of coaches used to think
and I did to it one time that a head
coach was a necessary evil in this.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
League, like it didn't matter.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Come on, okay, But anyway, then I started seeing my
name on there, and yeah, it might happen. If it does,
it does.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
When you go into the Hall of Fame. I mean
I feel like we're all going with you.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I mean, oh I did too. Yeah, yeah, I
felt that a question in my mind.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, and it was long overdue. And look, if you
don't think you're in you know, the Sholas and the
Landryes and you are well to us, you are, we
don't get any Look, if you don't come to us,
we're not doing this interview. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So yeah, all right. I don't know what to say
to end that, But coach you, I love you to death, man,
you know I do. I'm trying not to cry, my man,
Dick for meil, I really am. I'm trying to hold
it in. Stop you stop looking at me. Stop looking
at me, my man. That's a wrap on this episode
of Rams Iconic presented by eighteen hundred Tequila, the best
taste in Tequila. Please drink responsibily. I hope you guys
enjoyed this conversation with legendary coach Dick Formil. I'm DeMarco
(20:57):
Farr and we'll see you next time.
Welcome to Rams Iconic presented by eighteen hundred Tequila, the
best taste in tequila. Please drink responsibly. I'm DeMarco Farr
and this is the podcast where we catch up with
some of the most iconic players and coaches in franchise history.
My next guest was a head coach in the NFL
for fifteen seasons, and he won one hundred and twenty games.
I got to talk about all that stuff, and although
he was only with the team head coach of the
(00:28):
Rams for three years, he will always always be remembered
for bringing the franchise its first Super Bowl title. Please
welcome in, and I love saying this. Pro Football Hall
of Famer and my coach Dick for Meal. Coach, what
is happening? Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's exciting to line up with you, believe me.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Just sitting here, my pulse rates up, but another twenty beats.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Let's go run laps. Come on me and you well.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
With artificial hips. They don't run much anymore. You got
artificial hips. Bow to them, both of them, and a pull
growing Other than that, I'm not getting old.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
How'd you pull your groin?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Would you? Actually? I'd love to be a I will
tell you it was an exotic sto.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh it was. I was starting a power mover, power
mover down on one knee power I guess I keep
cranking out pretty quick, bang it goes.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So you were going to make that thing start work. Yeah,
I was going to make it start I know, I know.
I love this coach. I'm looking at this and you
told me this once and I don't know the story.
You were one of the first special teams coaches in
the NFL. Yeah, the very first, the very first special
teams What did the NFL do before they actually hired
coaches because that's not an easy job.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
No, they divided the responsibilities up amongst the staff and
they did. They worked on it Friday, at the end Saturday.
It wasn't an everyday routine. And George Allen was the
guy that recognized it was a negative within the performance
of his football team, and that's why he decided to
hire a special teams coach and he in postseason in
(01:52):
nineteen sixty eight, evaluated all the kickoff coverages and punt
coverages and they were beaten in a big time game
by a kickoff return for a touchdown, and in evaluating
all the kickoff returns that year in terms of coverage,
the guys that missed the tackle hadn't made a tackle
all year. Wow, But they didn't know it. And he said,
(02:12):
you know, I have to have someone supervising coaches on
a daily basis. And that's why he decided to hire
a special teams coach. Unfortunately it was me.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Did they think he was crazy? I mean, because that's innovative.
Never happened. Why do you guys worried about special teams
at the rest of the league thinking he was crazy
or wow, this guy's a genius.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
No. I you know, George was always given credit for
being innovative. You know, he was the first nickel guy.
He was the first six pack guy. I was on
the field I think the very first time a six
pack defensive team played a game. You know, six defensive backs.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh, six defensive backs? Oh wow?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay. And he took great pride in being willing to
be different and and it paid off for me. Won
seventy one or two percent of his games. That's why
he's in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Do we call that dime now? Six defensive backs? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
There's all kinds of different name yea be a dime, nicol.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And nickel and dime.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So he was the first to come up with that.
And you were coaching, did you have teams meetings every
single day, every day, every day?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah? And every player yeah, yeah, he it was so
important to him, you know, the Deacon Jones and the
Merlin Olson's they were in on specific you know specific
uh like Pat rush field goal rush and that kind
of stuff. But nobody was excluded on the roster from
being on a special team with George.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Wow. So that's how you, I guess, cut your teeth
talking to the entire team. Oh yes, so you started
your head coaching career that day when you became special
teams coaching.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah. So you know, I'd been a head coach in
high school. Yeah, I'd been a head coach in junior college.
So at least I had the opportunity to grow and
make presentations in front the entire teams all along through
my career, which was really an advantage for me.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Is that nerve wracking?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
No, it's a learning experience each time.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I mean going in front of men.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Get it was. It was the very first time I
went in front of the UH then the Rams out
of Fullerton. Yeah, because George Allen set in on the
first meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh boy, I was really bosses right then you.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Got all these guys there, Maxi, Bond, Jack Party, you know,
Eddie Medder, Richie Pettibond, these guys, Myrtle and Olsen. You
know I was uptight, believe me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, I bet you did good. I mean I used
to well, I used to love your speeches. They always
had a theme. But going back to this so special teams.
Then you spend seven years in Philly. Yeah, you take
them to a super Bowl, and then you retire and
go into the booth for fifteen fourteen years, fourteen years?
How was that? How was that transition? You know?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I learned a lot. I gott myself back in control
of myself as a person, and I watched other coaches coach.
The first five years DeMarco, I did ninety percent NFL
games and then college bowl games. The next nine years,
I did ninety five percent, ninety percent college games and
then NFL playoff games. So I was always watching other
(04:53):
coaches coach, and also sitting in locker rooms talking to
guys like you, yeah, yeah, you know and learning, listen
how they think and all that, and I really added
depth to my knowledge of what the NFL is all about.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So you, like you said, get in control of you.
So stopping was stopping coaching when you left Philly, it
was to get control of yourself. When did it start
to turn for you? Like I missed being on the field,
I missed being down.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
There well every time I would to a game every time.
Oh yeah, you know, I wished it, But I was
an insecure I was a little I didn't want to
end up in the hole that I left. You know,
as a person I was. I was a wreck and
I was my own worst enemy. I wasn't a good
listener to people to give you advice. And I just
(05:39):
like I said, I just burned myself out. Today they
might call it depression or some psychological term, but really
I was just burnout emotionally and my own personal makeup
is has to be better controlled. When you're in an
NFL situation and the intensity and the pressures and the
demand of that job, you've got to be total control.
(06:02):
And at the end when I left, I knew I
needed a.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Break, time for a break. And then you ninety seven
you decide or was it ninety six? When did you
decide to come back?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, you know, I'd had opportunities to go back before,
the number of them and the RAMS had offered me
opportunities prior to that, and I said no. But when
Johnshaw called and I went back there and visited with him,
I said, you know, if I don't go back now,
I never will. I'll be too old. And plus John
had been nice enough and respectful enough to offer me
(06:33):
these opportunities prior to this time. Yeah, so I said,
all right, let's go do it. And I was very fortunate.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
How politely say no to a head coaching job in
the NFL?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, you know I said no to the Eagles. Originally
I was sitting in my office when they called me
after we won the Rose Bowl. Yeah, and I said
I wasn't interested because I thought we could win a
national championship there. And then four days later I went
and met with him. You know, when I had coaches
like George Allen, Chuck Knox and tell me, Dick, you're crazy.
And my coaching staff said, Dick, you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Listen job.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
You got to go listen to him. So I went
over and listened to him and ended up taking.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
A job ninety seven. I mean, how did you pick
I'll say us because I was already on the team.
How did you pick us in ninety seven? Did you
look at the roster? Did you see video? Did you
see something in us?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, you know it's sets a long process. It's not
any one film study and the video study, and as
it is on computers today, it's a total evaluation, time
consuming thing. But you know picking you is easy. Oh
you have to do you watch it Probay, watch your practice.
You know you you didn't know how to take a
slow step. No, so you evaluate character of players by
(07:43):
the effort he makes every day. Plus John Becker was
on the staff there, and I kept some guys on
the staff that were there, and we talked and discussed
personnel every day. And since as a head coach of
my staff and I we had control of the final
decisions as to who we keep on the roster, you know,
including salary cap and who we draft. And Charlie Army
(08:05):
and John Becker and staff did a great job and
we all worked together. And you know there were nine
of you on the original roster that played in the
Super Bowl. The restaurant. Gone. Yeah, so we kept the
right nine guys.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
You did. Look. I mean Tory was sitting Tory Holt
was here and he was sitting where you were sitting,
and we were talking about he was talking about his
rookie year and when he lined up, he looked around
and said, look at all this talent and he could
not believe that we only won nine games in two
years before that. I'm like, I didn't know that either,
and I was on the team. I thought we were
always a play away from being in the playoffs. I mean,
(08:38):
when did you know going into I guess year three
that we had a chance to be special.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well before I went to training camp, I met with
John Shaw and I say, the president of the team.
I said, John, this is going to be a playoff
football team. And you know he said to me, he said,
don't tell me that. Coaches tell me that every year.
And he's been through some coaches. Yeah, And I said,
I'm some cheer is there's too much talent on it.
There's too much, Eric Donner. They have worked harder than
any team in pro football to get to where they
(09:04):
are today. We're going to back off a little bit
on them. In this surgero. They'll recognize the difference in
practice and the amount of times they have pads now.
But this team is ready to play well. They're structured,
fundamentally sound, they're disciplined, they listen, they care about each other,
and this is gonna be a good football team. No
way could I predict they could end up being what
they ended up being.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, well, I mean I guess that's the thing. I mean,
everyone asked me. I'm sure they ask you what made
that team so special? And I asked Tory that question
and he we both said we were just so professional,
we did care about each other. And then I thought
when I was waiting for you, maybe it was those
hard practices.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Oh, no question. No, hard work never hurt anybody, is it. Yeah, Hey,
if you want things you've never had, you got to
do things you've never done. And you guys have never
worked like that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
See what I mean? This is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Say that again one more time.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I said, if you want things you've never had, you've
got to do things you've never done.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Oh my god, I have never worked so hard in
my life.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I know it. And you recognize when we backed off
in the third year, you guys came to practice with
a smile on your face.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Because if we lose, we might go back to the
old one.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But you know, yeah, and that's how we built our culture. Yeah,
you know, and when people start appreciating the effort they
make because of the results they get, it multiplies within
an organization and it's unbelievable psychological momentum. How you play
on a week in, a week out basis.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's true. We were going to talk to Mike Jones,
our guy the tackle, and I remember the first time
I saw him because I didn't know him. I mean,
it was us against the world, and here's this new
guy in the weight room and I was listening to
him doing power cleans, and the reps kept getting going
deeper and deeper, like sixteen eighteen reps. I'm like, this
dude works so hard. He may be he may be
(10:46):
the one that could actually take it because some of
those years we had guys running for the door. Oh yeah, yeah,
we ran guys out of that room. I mean I
felt proud about that as a.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Player, no question. And you know, and Mike was a
free agent, yeah, and we brought him in out of
the free agent market. He was a converted fullback to
linebacker by the Raiders and didn't have a big background.
But Mike White had been the head coach of the
Raiders and he said, this is a character guy you
can build a football team around. You'll you'll want. He
(11:14):
may not be a starter, but chances are he will
be because of his overall character as a man. And
he ended up being a strong, silent leader as well
as you know, he was one.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Of us from the start, and it was amazing. I mean,
a lot of guys we tried to warm up too.
We just couldn't. And you know, the guys that made
it were the guys that made it all right. So
we're in the middle of preseason and I think I
was hurt, but I remember everybody remembers this. It's in
the movie. Yeah, Trick Greed goes down. Trent Green to
that point was on fire.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, like twenty eight for thirty one.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
It was really ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, so there he is.
Your quarterback is on the deck in Saint Louis Your
first thought when you saw.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
That, Well, I felt for him first emotionally. It really
he had worked so hard in his career, never really
been given an opportunity to play. You know, he was
around for seven eight years and never playing a game,
and then he got to play when an injury factor
took place in the old Redskins and he got to
play some games and he played pretty well. We liked him,
John Becker and Charlie Armory and I and then Mike Martz.
(12:17):
We liked him. So that's when we signed him as
a free agent, and we thought we could build a
football team around him, and we the foundation was there.
And then when he went down, I first had compassion
for him, Yeah, because I knew the price he'd paid
to get to this opportunity and now was lost. And
he handled it well, but it was it was a
(12:41):
tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Believe me. See, I'm hurt. I feel bad because I
when I saw him go down, I was mad at
Rodney for doing it, and then I was like, there
it goes. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well the other thing I remember, I remember looking and
seeing Isaac Bruce on his hands and knees banging the turf.
I felt like he because he knew he had the
guy that could throw him the ball. We could be
a team and uh, then he's down, and Isaac was
just distraught, but everyone was Yeah. But I and as
(13:14):
you know, in a leadership role, you've got to take
adversity and use it as a tool to get better,
use it as an ally. And I felt, you know,
I knew what kind of character we had on the
football team, and I thought they would believe me when
I told them we'd play well anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yes, I'm glad you led me right to that. I mean,
where did that line come from? I mean, I know
it was from the heart because I know you, and
I know you at that at that moment.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It wasn't rehearsed around dirt.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Warner and we will play good football, I would say that, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, we were too complete a football team to allow
or to have, Yeah, to have one player determined you
weren't going to be a good football team. But we
had the nucleus was there? Could I tell we were
going to be what we were? No? But I knew
we were going to be a good football team because
even in losing. In losing, there were a lot of
(14:05):
plays on those snaps we are better than our opponent,
and we just couldn't put enough of them together. And
we had Tony Banks, and I love Tony Banks. I
love the guy, but we needed someone was more consistent
in past completion percentages and like yeah, and so Trent
comes in. But you know, every day, I remember the
(14:27):
one advantage of being a head coach and not coaching
a specific position yourself is you watch people every day.
You evaluate people every day. And I would go off
the practice field when Kurt Warner was running our scout team,
oh yeah, offense against our defense, and I'd walk, I'd
call my defensive coaches over and say, guys, either our
(14:50):
defense is lousy or this kid can play.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know, but no way could I determine he could
play like did because you can't determine how he's going
to play under pressure, right, you know, running pass plays
off cards is a lot different than all of a
sudden lining that got a guy the Baltimore Raven's a
good defense.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
In your first career NFL game, Oh yeah, we knew
he could play. I mean, practicing against him, it's it's
our drill. So we're gonna win, right, But and we've
seen several backups. But I mean we always knew Kirk
can play. He's got a whip. He's an athlete, and
he's competitive. That little basketball room he used to play basketball,
oh yeah, and kill us from the from the three
point line. But that game in ninety eight when he
(15:33):
was playing in sand Frind at the end of the year,
twelve snaps, Yeah, but competitive, twelve snaps like yeah, yeah,
I mean we knew the guy could play. So but
when I heard you say that we will rally around
Kurt Warner and play good football, I felt you were
talking to us and question. I thought we were going
to be a running football team until we got to Baltimore. Yeah,
this kid can wing it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know that year we had Tory
Hill was the first round pick. Yeah, people don't realize
I had four other first round picks. Okay, Mike Mart's
first round pick. Okay, yeah, Alice Sanders, there's a first
round pick, first round pick. Yes, I don't do because
the first round pick, John Mascow is a first round pick. Wow.
And those four guys collectively made an unbelievable contribution to everybody,
(16:20):
to me, to you and everybody, and uh making your
decision to let Peter Junta and John Budding run the
defense themselves. Remember we lost, Bud Carson, we did, and
anyways scared me.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, I'm not even gonna lie. Bud Carson scared though, scared.
Oh my god, he was scary.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
But he's had a tone.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
He sure did. Yeah, he was you without the nice part.
Yeah yeah, yeah, wow wow.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Anyway, Yeah, we were very fortunate to have those guys,
and nobody has impacted a team as dramatically as Mike
did taking over that team ready to be good.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So I remember, and I think I was standing there,
I don't know where was when you handed the trophy
to Missfrontier. You said, here you go, here's your trophy,
and we finally got it done from that moment, because
I remember when I got the letter in Hawaii. I
got a letter in Hawaii that you were retiring. We win,
(17:16):
We do it. We get to the mountaintop, you point
down to me, DeMarco, you are a world champion. Everybody
tells me.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think about that. I too, I'll tell you it
makes me am absolutely but I think about that often
to see you, because the price you paid to earn
the right to be a world champion, that makes head coaching,
every every part about it.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
See, I know what that means I know what that's about.
And I wasn't the only guy. You did that too,
It was a few guys. Yeah, yeah, I mean it means,
it means a lot. But from that point, so we're
we're we're being drowned in ticker tapes and you're up
on a podium and we're at the top of the mountain.
From from then to retirement.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, you know, I have a I had been coaching
the NFL of the Year before and almost everybody's name
on that trophy had been fired after that. So I said,
nobody's immune to going out of his career in a
negative way. I have an opportunity to go out on
my career in a positive way. Plus, my kids are
(18:25):
having grandchildren and they're all living and I don't hardly
know them, you know, And the family has always been
so important to me. And you remember that my kids
and grandkids come to training camp with you guys carrying
your helmets off the field, and I was missing out
on that. And I said, you know, what a great
opportunity to go out on top.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So then you retire from there, okay. And I know
you never talked about it, and I think you cared
because you love this game, and you love the players
and the men that coach it and play it. When
did you start worrying thinking about the whole fame?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, the first time I ever heard Hall of
Fame was post news conference Super Bowl win. I'm walking
out in Atlanta, in Atlanta, and some guy says to me,
you just bought a ticket to Canton. Wow, something like that,
And it never you mind, wow, never end in my mind.
It really, you know, I've never put myself at the
(19:21):
level of the Shoelers, the Landry's, those kind of guys.
I just it was a high school coach, never turned
down a job when he got a better one. That's
what I looked. And all of a sudden, that guy
said that to me. I said, well, that's a nice compliment,
thank you. But from then on, and then later on,
years go by, I see my name starting to be nominated, nominated, nominated,
(19:43):
And then they changed the format to where now there's
a subcommittee out of the forty eight voters that evaluates
the coaches, because you know, they went twenty five years
and only put eleven coaches in. Oh yeah, so they
were you know, a lot of coaches used to think
and I did to it one time that a head
coach was a necessary evil in this.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
League, like it didn't matter.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Come on, okay, But anyway, then I started seeing my
name on there, and yeah, it might happen. If it does,
it does.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
When you go into the Hall of Fame. I mean
I feel like we're all going with you.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, I mean, oh I did too. Yeah, yeah, I
felt that a question in my mind.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, and it was long overdue. And look, if you
don't think you're in you know, the Sholas and the
Landryes and you are well to us, you are, we
don't get any Look, if you don't come to us,
we're not doing this interview. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So yeah, all right. I don't know what to say
to end that, But coach you, I love you to death, man,
you know I do. I'm trying not to cry, my man,
Dick for meil, I really am. I'm trying to hold
it in. Stop you stop looking at me. Stop looking
at me, my man. That's a wrap on this episode
of Rams Iconic presented by eighteen hundred Tequila, the best
taste in Tequila. Please drink responsibily. I hope you guys
enjoyed this conversation with legendary coach Dick Formil. I'm DeMarco
(20:57):
Farr and we'll see you next time.
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