November 7, 2023 • 47 mins
Seahawks Legends Steve Raible and Jim Zorn were joined by Seahawks Legend Keith Butler. Today's show: Seahawks defenses in the early days (03:47), Transition from playing to coaching (05:49), Coaching in Pittsburgh (09:06), Best talent Keith played against (12:46), Jack Lambert flashbacks (17:44), Coaches being good teachers (24:31), Laying roots after retirement (25:53) and Missing the game (37:29).
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Seahawks Stories, teaking you behind the scenes
with your favorite Seahawks set.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Back to Bey and Zorn, who's back to pass as
time looks for the left sideline, throws a bomb down there.
He's got a man in front. He makes to grab
a travel It's a thirty down to the twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
They'll never get him. He scores touched.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Down Seahawks powered by Seahawks Dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And Zorn later in perfectly a Rabel who goes in
to score on an eighty yard pass and run play.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Now here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve
Raeball and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn. Let's always remember that friends,
Seahawks legend Jim Zorn.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And the big voice of Steve.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I hope everybody's doing okay out there. Seahawks Stories time
and we welcome in listen. One of the really great,
not only great players going back in the day, all
the way back to nineteen seventy eight in fact on
the Seahawks team, but really one of the great guys
and turned into as Jim Zorn did, one of the
terrific coaches in this national football League. Keith Butler is
(01:04):
joining us today. But's how you doing good?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Rage? How you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Man?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Good to hear from both us.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
We're we're doing terrifically. I get to see you, or
at least I used to once in a blue moon
when we'd play the Steelers. But we're gonna start talking
about the old days. And I gotta think I was
thinking about this last night that when you came to
the Seahawks in nineteen seventy eight, it must have been
quite a thrill to be on a team with guys
(01:31):
like me and.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Jim, especially listening to that opener, that's right. I'm sure
he got real emotional about.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
You offensive guys always.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Hey, Ray, did you ever get upset when we would
go three and out and you had to come back
on the field or was that just the way it was?
Because I know we got upset, We got upset with
long Drive against us having Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, Uh. The only thing up said me, was when
we were able to win or couldn't win, And that
wasn't a whole lot we you know, we went nine
and seven a few times and then uh ended up
going to the playoffs and all that. But but uh,
I had a lot of fun, a lot of guys,
(02:25):
good guys on the on the Seahawks team, great people
and uh, great teammates and George Keith.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
When you came in and played, who were the three
guys you know, there's usually three linebackers, uh, starting and
playing together, especially on early downs. Who were the guys
that you played with early? And how did that? How
did that change over the years?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Uh, Sammy, it was Sam Green, Sammy Green, Yeah, and
Beason Terry Oh so okay?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And Cherry played the middle and you played on the
strong side.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, well I played I played right outside linebacker, right
played left outside.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So so you sometimes would have a tight end on
you and then other times.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Not Yes, yes, huh as outside linebackers then and then
uh lay on down the line. When Chuck Knox came in,
they changed it to thirty four defense, and then I
moved into inside linebacker. In thirty four defense.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Did you ever have to call the the defense you
guys wanted to play? Or did Sammy Green or Terry
Beeson call it? Call the defense?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Uh? Terry, Terry called the defense for the most part. Okay,
Well we got to the thirty four defense, I called it.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, inside.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I was an inside linebacker then.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But what do you remember about those those defenses in
those early days, Remember, we had a we had a
head coach in Jack Pitterra, who was a defensive based coach,
coach the Purple pep Leaders coach, the fearsome Forsome in
LA defensive lines. What do you remember about those days?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I thought it was uh uh, it gave us a
chance to win for the most part in terms of
in the four to three defenses. The guys that you
got to have, I think are the guys up front
and uh meaning that those guys have got to handle
a lot of things, different things, whether it's rushing the
(04:24):
past or stopping to run wherever it may be. And
I really enjoyed playing with those guys up front. They
did it. They did a good job. And Terry did
a good job too. He did a good job. And
so with Sammy, Sammy wasn't say much. You know, Sammy
wasn't talking very much. He was trying to lift the board.
He want to do everything else. So, uh, it was
(04:44):
a lot of good guys to play with, good guys
in the secondary and stuff like that. So we had
we had a lot of fun and uh uh, you know,
try to get in the playoffs as much we could. Uh.
When we get in the playoffs, I think it was
my third year were there.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I think it was nineteen eighty three. I believe was
the first player.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I was five years. Yeah, we went to uh we
went to didn we go to anty Championship?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah? We lost to the Raidars in LA.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Beat him twice that year. Couldn't beat him a thirty
You know what happened?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Rags? Uh? Uh? Well, because we we we got here
and okay, we got to there and then and then
I called my parents to get you to get ready
to get your tickets to go to the super Bowl
because we beat them twice. Sure, and they're out of
the vision. So uh, me thinking, oh, we ought to
beat them anyway, so we didn't. They end up beating
us and win the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I'm glad to know that after all these years, we
can blame it directly on you, but that.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It was Hey, Keith, when you uh, when you played, Uh,
did you find it easy to make a transition from
playing to coaching and did you change, like did you
change philosophy of being around both for so many years
with the Steelers, or how did that happen for you?
(06:05):
Were you or did you want to play defense like
you did in Seattle?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well? Uh uh, the thing I enjoyed about the whole
thing is uh, guys learning and what what was it?
What was I trying to teach? Was big for me.
And I really started thinking more and more about linebackers
being like a quarterback on offense. Why because they had
(06:33):
to know what what what's going on in the back
end and and what's going on in front of them.
In other words, they had know what everybody on the
field was doing each and every defense that you called.
And I still I still think that, I still believe that,
and that's what I've tried to do with all my players,
all my guys I've coached, uh that you know, they
(06:55):
they've got to know what everybody in front of them
is doing, but everybody's back back of them is doing,
so they can use their help for the most part,
you know. And for for for defensive to be a
good defense, I think you got it. You have to
stop the run and make people throw the football, make
them throw the football, know when they're going to throw
the football, and then get after them when they throw
(07:17):
the football. Now, if if they can run the ball
on you, then play action is a big problem.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, for the defensively, so.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
And that's that's one of the reasons I always believe
that if you can stop the run, you gotta worry
about play action because they ain't gonna play action, They're
gonna drop back and throw the ball. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I feel like I'm in your I'm in your linebacker
meeting room right now. And that's that's it. That's exactly right. So, Uh,
did you change that philosophy from being a player or
did you have the same philosophy when you were a player.
Did you kind of feel like you were the quarterback
on the.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Defense and that we had to make the calls. Yes,
uh zee, yeah, we we you know, we had to
make calls. We had to say at the front, we
had to change the coverage if we had a double calls,
stuff like that. So, uh, those guys were, uh, those guys,
the linebackers were the guys who had to change change
(08:12):
the calls and make sure everybody's on the same page
in terms of what defense that you're now playing after
you've changed the call. So that's that's that's big because
if you mess it up once or twice, man, nobody trusts.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You, no, and it's it's really gap control that you're
calling right when you call a different defense, were also
different gap controls and uh, things like that, coverage, coverage responsibilities.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
And hey, but that changes since since we've been out
here in Seattle for obviously for Zee and I have
been here forever. But in the last what thirteen years,
I guess, since Pete and John have been a part
of this organization, the stability here in Seattle has been
one of the things that I think has meant this
(09:03):
franchise has continued to win over the years. The example
of Pittsburgh is maybe no greater example of stability in
the National Football League. What was it like to be
a part of that organization for so many years? You
worked with Mike Tomlin, the family ownership. Guys were just
they'd come there, they'd stay there, they'd retire there like you.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, uh, rage I had. I had a lot of opportunities.
Uh when I went there and we started winning and uh,
you know, going to to the playoffs and then getting
in the Super Bowl and we went to three Super
Bowls when I when I coached there and won two.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Of them, and I remember one you won.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, super Bowl forty.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yeah, I can't even believe you're you're even talking
about that as though you won that game.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Yes, yeah we did. But uh uh, win of those,
win of those was a lot of fun to me.
I mean I really enjoyed uh uh those games and
the competition of it. The competition was huge, and uh
and and teaching the guys and having the guys that
that played for you do what you ask them to do,
(10:20):
and uh uh when they got it down and played
good defense and everybody played together, that was probably the
most rewarding thing. Yeah, that that, you know, when in
the Super Bowl, getting a couple of rings forty was
big for us. It was big for me, you know,
it was big for me and all my all my guys,
(10:41):
all my players knew it, you know. Uh And and
they played they played well, and I was I was
proud of them and really thankful for those guys that
I was able to coach.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It was a great game. Did you when you get
to the playoffs in the National Football League, did you
feel like coaching was easier because those players took it
themselves and knew what you know what they needed to do. Uh,
Whereas before that, trying to win and trying to get
them to do what you ask them to do was harder.
(11:16):
Did you feel it was easier in the playoffs?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Uh? It was in that you didn't have to sell
them on anything. They know what works and what don't work,
you know what I mean, And they trust you and
they start they start trusting you as the coach. And
then you know, they listened every every word that came
out of your mouth because you know, evidently you wouldn't
have you wouldn't have gotten the playoffs unless what you
(11:41):
would telling them was true.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Ye, that's right, that's.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
You know, those guys, those guys learned to trust you.
When they learned trust you and do all that, I mean,
it's a it's a to me, it's it makes the
game a lot of fun nowt there is. To me,
there's a lot more pressure, uh when you when you
advance into the playoffs and all the way to the
(12:08):
super Bowl. You know, and everybody says, well, you got
this far, you got this far. Yeah, that's fine, but
are you going to win the super Bowl or not?
I mean, that's that's what we're all. That's what we're
all in it for. That's what we're all. We're in
it for. Both of y'all played. That's what y'all wanted
to do, and both of us. I mean, you know,
me playing with y'all wanted to do that at Seattle
(12:28):
as a player. You know, we got we got to
the AFC Championship. We you know, I was kind of
hoping that we would go long after that and maybe
a year after that or so we we get into
the super Bowl, you know, because we got that far already.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
But can you remember back on some of the best
best like best talent that you played against when you
were with the Hawks. Any any players come to mind
on offense that you had a runningbacks? Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, running backs. I always thought about running backs and
who so many great great Earl Campbell, I mean all
of them, I mean the they It seemed like everybody
had good, good running backs. Yeah. I think everybody, everybody
you know they had a franchise, had a good running back.
And they're always hard to stop. I mean, uh, they're
(13:22):
not just them, I mean the quarterback to the quarterback
for the two the two guys that I was concerned
about as a linebacker more than anything else. With the
quarterback and uh and the running back. Obviously wide receivers
I didn't have to cover them, but I didn't have
to cover backs and tight ends, you know, and you
try to stay away from mismatches like wide receivers and
(13:45):
stuff they tried to do we did and all that,
but uh, it was always a lot of fun. I
felt like to see the game plan come together and
you know what coverage your playing and how hell we
are you doing that? But up front you're playing the
gap control like you talked about Z, it was mildly
important and putting those together in terms of you know what,
(14:09):
what kind of defense are coverage? You're going to play
cover three. Obviously it's an eight man front, so you
want to make sure you gap down and you win
the running game. You should win the running game when
you're doing that. And too deep is probably uh, you
don't want to be in too deep when people are
running the ball, so all the all the stuff is
(14:30):
not accounted for. You know, you got you've got seven
gaps accounted for, not eight, and so that makes makes
it a little bit tough.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Alls I can tell you, Alls I can tell you
is too deep was hard to read when you had
Troy Polamalu in Oh yeah, either the strong side a
gap or the other side, and then he and he
would be the deep half safety. I have to snap
of the ball, okay.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, run it back there.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But in fact that that leads me to my question.
The This is probably like saying, Okay, who is your
favorite child? But give me the name of the guy
maybe if even if not the most talented, but maybe
the best football player that you coached in your long career.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Oh boy, I coach a couple. Uh uh. James Ferrier,
I'd have to say him. He comes to mind. I
coached the inside and outside linebackers at UH, at Pittsburgh
and UH. In terms of inside linebackers, James was was
the quarterback of the off of our of our defense
(15:38):
in terms of making the checks and stuff like that
and still being a real good football player in his
gap all the time, making sure he did his job
first and then he helped his buddy. You know, that
was big for me in terms of I tried to teach,
make sure you do your job first and then then
help you buddy if you can, you know, but take
care of your responsibility. And he did a great job
(15:58):
of that. Uh. Uh I had some good outside linebackers.
James Harrison was a good outside linebacker. Uh Jeordy Porter
was a good outside linebacker. Lamar Woodley. Uh those guys
were good players. Uh I had had that and a
lot of good inside guys to both and uh I
(16:21):
really appreciate those guys and why they played. You know,
like I said earlier, Raves, if you if you're successful
in what you're telling them, they'll listen to you, you know.
And and I can't blame them. I was the same
way as the player and so and ravees.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
When Buttz is talking about this, you know, as a
coach uh on other staffs getting ready for the Steelers, Uh,
he's he's giving us names that we had to contend
with from the offensive side. Are we going to chip him?
Are we gonna chip? If you don't chip James Harrison,
you are not going to block him with one guy
(17:03):
the whole game or rarely even in a quarter, You're
he's going to get free. And so, yeah, we would
have to prepare for these kinds of guys. These are
these are some of the top players.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Those are extra those are extra meeting guys, right, oh yeah,
for the coach, for the coaching staff.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yah.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
And but when you're when as you were talking and
you were talking about those great players that you coached,
and and Ze and I and you to a certain extent,
you're a little younger than we are. But we can
go back to the days when we played Pittsburgh back
in the seventies, when they had guys like Andy Russell
and Jack Lambard in the middle, and uh, they just
(17:47):
had some some of the best well they had best
the best defenses around for so many years back there
in Pittsburgh. So that tradition continued under coach Kawer and
UH under coach Tomlin now and and in no large,
no small part to you, but because of what you
did and the coaching that you brought to those guys.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And you know, Jack Lambert had such a big name,
but he was not a big guy. He was a
small guy. And I'll never forget looking on the other side.
You know, he's he's on the other side, and he
is right there in front of me. And when he smiled,
he had teeth that he would take out during the
you know, before the game, he would leave his teeth,
(18:31):
especially as two front ones in the locker room. Sure,
and then we come out and give give you that
big smile, and he had those wild eyes, and I just,
you know, it's almost distracting, you almost crack up. Wait,
where are your teeth?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
My man? All right, here's my Jack Lamb, here's my
Jack Lambert story. We were playing back there in Pittsburgh.
It was either seventy eight or seventy nine. And I
obviously the all of that, the steel curtain, all those
guys just to melt blunt. I mean, you know, the
great Super Bowl teams. So we run. I don't know
what the heck the play was, but I was in
the slot, you know, in for the tight end, and
(19:07):
I was running a shallow crossing route, probably trying to
pull people away from Largin on a crossing route behind me.
But that goes without.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Saying, right, So, but I was looking.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
For you first, Sure you were. So I'm running across
the middle, and I can see Lambert, you know, in
his middle linebacker spot, and I don't think he sees me.
So I figured, man, I might just pop out the
other side here, I can get the ball turn up field.
I might be able to run for a while just
about the time I got behind him. All I remember
next was this this flipper, this arm swinging back and
(19:42):
hitting me right in the throat as I was running
behind him. And I mean he just dropped me like
a sack of dirt. I mean, I was he hit
me so hard on the throw. I mean I couldn't breathe,
I couldn't talk. And my folks, my parents were at
that game in Pittsford. After the game and we ended
up losing, unfortunately. But after the game, you know, my
(20:03):
dad I kept, you know, saying, well, what did you
think of the game? And he said, man, that Jack Lambert,
he's a great football lyrist. He said, Daddy almost tore
my Larnux out.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But I'll.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
But that's the way you could play.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Then.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
That was the game there, my lord. And you know,
I'm sure that was I was just one of many people.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
He didn't even look at you. You didn't think he saw.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You, no, And he just threw that right arm back
and he always had it.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
There was a steel play.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
He had those big, big padded forearm things.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, four arm pass.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, he was there's one of the greatest football posters
I think ever. Is kind of a cartoon drawing of
Jack Lambert with this this wild glare in his eye
and with no teeth, you know, smiling and you know,
dirt and sweat and coming off him. Oh my gosh.
But he he loved to play. He really did love
(20:59):
to play, and that that great.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
But he had some you know what he was He
was a good player, but he had some guys in
front of him too. The yeah, and that makes it,
that makes a difference to Acker.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I remember Wyman, you know, my broadcast partner always talks about.
He said, there was nothing more made me feel more
confident as one of those inside backers than looking up
front and seeing the big butt of Cortes cancer right
in front of me, because he knew that Tes was
always going to take up at least two guys and
that he would be free to make play run. And
(21:34):
as a as a guy who then ended up playing
inside for part of your career too, I'm sure you
had to believe that as well.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
But oh yeah, big time. Yeah, yeah, somebody get in
front of you, man, you can gives you a chance
to play. And uh, Joe Nash for me, uh huh
was a guy for me. He was a guy that
if he played well, I played well. And if he's
the guy that could use two guys up because he
(22:00):
was a nose guard for us. You know, we had
Jacob Green, we had Jeff Bryant, bullet, Jeff Bright and
then and then uh you know, those those guys helped
us quite a bit. I mean they, I mean, uh
they they did a great job. I thought Joe Nash
did it. Probably was a little bit more stable than
(22:22):
anybody else up there.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
And uh yeah, for a guy that was always for
a guy that was as wide as he was, he
could get real skinny in those gaps, you know, he
couldn't get slide.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And an undrafted free agent with first round picks on
either side of him, and those three guys playing together
and they we were talking to Jacob not long ago.
He played. Yeah, he played like eighty five percent. Those
guys played like eighty five percent of the plays in
the game. You couldn't get him out of the game.
In fact, and now the whole idea is rotation, right.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Nichol plus Nickel and dime.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That changes.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Now, did you get him on third down? Get get
the rushers on third down?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah? Did you have to come out on third down?
Or did you stay on on third down? Did they
bring a nickelback in for you?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I did late in my career, not early.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Okay, you know, because you had, like you said, you
had to cover backs and or tight.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Ends, right right. Those were the guys you had to
match up against and if you if you couldn't you know,
they tried to. Yeah, you know, Bulleyhead got a chance
to take and play on third down. He got to
play the linebacker because he could run. Yeah, Greg games,
you know, and I call him Bullehead all the time.
(23:39):
So I see him. I see him from time to time.
He was he was, he was down here. Steve was
you know, Steven uh and Uh. Sherman Sherman was down here.
Yeah right, So we got a chance to go out
and meet with him and spend some time with him.
So we had a good time.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
We saw Smitty when he was up here for something.
Was it the alumni weekend? I think it was that
Smithy was up here. I don't you know. I say
this about all you guys that I had a chance
to play with over the course of the years. But
if there's a better person than Sherman Smith, I don't
you know. I know I'm sitting across from one, and
we got one on the phone here. But I'm telling you,
(24:17):
Sherman Smith is one of the true.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Quality people and.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Great coach, great teacher. What is it about it? Mike
Holmer and your old boss used to say this all
the time. If I wasn't a coach, I'd have been
a high school teacher. And he thought the best coaches
were those guys who were teachers. Not necessarily the guys
that obviously were screamers or yellers or found a way
to get the guys fired up, but guys who could communicate,
(24:42):
who could teach and could make it understandable to those
guys who were playing, right, That's that's what you guys
really are.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
But ye, yeah, I mean a lot of people call
it teaching congressions. Knowing what you want to teach first,
and how you teach it, and what do you start with?
You know, whate of these guys to me was always
what are you looking at and where you Those are
the two biggest things. I always trying to teach my
guys and then knowing what everybody else is doing around
(25:09):
and using that that stuff. But uh, you know, I've
had a very fortunate life. I think in that that Uh. Uh,
I got to play. I got to play all my
life for a living. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah,
I mean I didn't have to the only time I've
ever worked is when I was failing hay cutting brass
(25:32):
and sometime back, you know, when I'm sixteen seventeen years old. Yeah,
I mean other than that, man, you know, I coached football.
Coaching football beat the heck out of working for a living.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Ie. Hey, uh, did you you when now you're retired,
You've you've quit the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
They probably still want you back, but you've you've you've
gone on your way.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You didn't settle in Seattle? Had you always planned on
settling in Tennessee? Or like what I tell you?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
What? Yeah? See, I tell you. Uh. The biggest thing
for me is, you know, I was born in North Alabama,
a place called Huntsville. And by the way, Huntsville was
named the best place uh in the in the United States.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You live in you but I really appreciate that information.
That's very pregnant.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, I thought, I tell you. Anyway, Anyway, I lived
there in wins Goood, Memphis, and and my boys. Really,
my three sons. They were probably the most important uh
factor in where we children are going to live. That
then her dance uh Kim folk and mind Kimfolk. My
(26:48):
brothers and sisters all lived down in Huntsville. I've lost
my both my parents. I lost my mom back in January,
and uh uh my brothers and sisters live in Huntsville still,
so we live in nash She was kind of in between.
I've got a boy. Uh, my middle son is in
good Virginia. He's a he's a lawyer and he works
in Virginia. And he's got three of my grand children, uh,
(27:13):
two year olds and a boy. And then I got Blake,
my oldest. Uh, he's working in Memphis. He's a head
coach at uh Christian uh high school there he called
Evangelical Christian School. He's the head coach there. And then uh,
he's got three three of my grandsons. And then uh,
I got one that's living uh here in Nashville, and
(27:35):
he's not married. I don't know if nobody anybody Mary Murphy,
you know.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Woman, listen, if miss Jane, if Miss Janet married you,
if Miss Janet married you, there's somebody for everybody, trust me.
How is Janet doing? We used to call her miss Janet.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
She was that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You didn't cross her. You never crossed her either.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
He's been married for forty three years.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Fight Yeah, no, nobody, nobody.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Miss Sharon and I we're forty two years this year,
and you know we have a few disagreements, but I
wouldn't say we've had fights.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Now.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Well, kind of we didn't see things quite the same way.
And generally I was wrong and that as long as
you realize that and you admit that you're wrong right away,
then that's usually that took that took care of it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well, you don't tell you you haven't been able to
come to any alumni things or anything like that because
you've been coaching, because that just takes up so much time.
You've settled now, you've got family that you're living by
and growing growing up with. And uh, but maybe just
maybe as we go along here, uh, you should try
(29:01):
to prioritize because everybody would love to see you prioritize
coming out Janet and visiting at least.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Yeah, I've thought about that. They really started thinking about
that a couple of weeks ago, you know, thinking about
what's going on, and Tys had something going on. I
think there uh one time and then uh, I haven't
had a chance to Yeah, I haven't had a chance
to go up there in a long time, and I
(29:31):
really like to go back because it's beautiful Seattle. Seattle
was beautiful, y'all know that. I mean it's it's a
beautiful place to live.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And uh not quite not quite Huntsville though.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
I.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Which is the greatest place. We just learned that we.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Don't have uh, we don't have snow capped mountain.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
What was what was Pittsburgh like? You were there a
long time? What was Pittsburgh like?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah? I liked it. I mean it's uh, you know,
the call it three rivers and all that stuff for
a good reason. There's uh uh a couple of rivers.
We're home. We were on one of the rivers there.
In terms of our our complex, uh the stadium, you know,
they they've worked that out and changed it a couple
(30:17):
of times. But it's a nice place. I really enjoyed,
uh Pittsburgh, you know, you know, uh play golf and
all seats as much as I could. And uh I
enjoyed uh working from there. You know, everybody's got to
go to the uh try to prepare for the our
(30:44):
what we call it. They I've been hitting the hands
on the top. Yeah, yeah, we got your ready the
draft for all all the time and go to go
all over the world. Are they to war guys out.
I didn't miss that a whole lot, but I enjoyed it.
(31:06):
I enjoyed I'm enjoyed it to make sure I knew
who was in the draft and how how could they
affect us and how can they fit on our team
and stuff like that. That's a lot of work there.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, you worked with Dick lebou for I don't know,
for a lot of years. What did you end up
teaching him? Uh in your career there or maybe vice?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, yeah, he was a dB, you know he he
did everything from that point of view, just like you
raves as a wide receiver and you see as a quarterback.
You know, from a teaching standpoint of talking to people
about the game from your standpoint really from a position
(31:51):
you played more so than anything else. And then you know,
you you learn from playing with those guys for guys
what they should be doing or what they're supposed to do,
or what you may think they should do and and
that helps quite a bit. And uh and with Dick Lebow,
(32:12):
they had been around the game for a long time
and he was a real good secondary coach, had probably
knew more about it than anything. And the linebackers, he
knew a lot about the linebackers too. He let me
coach though he he he uh uh he didn't. He
would set out things for us and then he would
(32:33):
ask us, uh, you know, what about this? What about that?
And morning our opinion about a lot of things. Yeah,
and uh he used it in that way and he
did a great job, a great job.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think that's what makes a great staff too, is
trusting the guys that you've hired, not just having to
be one voice and hey, we're going to do it
this way, and you guys, you guys have to conform
to this way, especially if you you have talent. I
mean you have talent at the line backer position. You
not only played it, but you even coached before you
got to Pittsburgh. So uh, I mean that speaks a
(33:07):
lot to me to to that you would say, Dick
Lebo allowed you to coach, allowed you to have input,
asked you is just you know, I'm working the third level.
You're working the second level, Keith, how is this going
to fit with what you what you got going?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Wasn't it sort of the same way for you? I mean,
Mike allowed you to coach your guys and one of
the input when you were his Oh yeah, quarterbacks coach.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
We have to to get him on. But yeah, yeah,
he allowed me to do my thing. And you know,
I probably he probably looked at me and going, what
is he doing? But uh, yeah, because I had some
I had some drill work that was interesting, but that
that was a big piece of my you know, my
skill thinking. And I'm sure but you answered this question too.
(33:56):
You you actually know what it feels like to be
on the field and play. So you're not going to
give your linebackers something that just didn't didn't work because
you knew, you know, you knew what could work and
what couldn't work.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Right. But dickle Bolt was the same way. I mean
he was he was a dB for a long time
in the National Football League. Yeah, and he was the
same way, exactly the same way. And uh he is
a great guy to work with. I mean a great
guy to work with because you know, he knew a
lot about the game. A ton about the game, but
he lets you express your thoughts and your feelings in
(34:31):
terms of what you think your guys could do, you know,
And that's a that's a tough thing about. If you're
going to be a coordinator, Uh, you got to trust
the guys that are they are coaching and trust that
they know what they guys, their guys do well and
what they don't do so well. And that's important too,
and so uh when you're trying to get a game
(34:53):
plan together. That's that's the biggest part of it right there.
What do your guys do well? And what do you
got to take away that the guys you're you're fixing
the day on play? What do you got to take
away in order for them to beetle? And Uh, if
you can figure that mess out, then you can.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Hey, but you've been you've been out of it now
for a little bit. Are you still watching it closely
on TV? Every week? Do you miss it? Do you
miss being down there on the field? Do you miss
being in the meeting rooms?
Speaker 4 (35:28):
What I what I miss is seeing the secondary That's
what I miss. I can't I can't tell what's going
on unless I know what those safeties are doing.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
So you don't miss just the general feeling of being
in pro football. You miss actually sitting there looking at
the secondary.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Yeah yeah, well yeah, to see what they're doing. I mean,
at least I know what they're playing, you know what
I mean. I mean, whether they're playing, whether they're playing
a zero coverage or you know that free coverage or what.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Does that help? Does that help you? Does that help?
That doesn't help? You know what the linebackers are going
to do. You just want to see what the secondary
is doing, so you know, well there, you know, because
if it's zero, there's probably a blitz or you're maybe
you see of I crack up sometimes because I hear announcers,
not like Steve, Steve's the expert, but I do hear
(36:19):
announcers saying, oh, he blitzed there, and it'd be a
four man rush, you know, or you know, and you
just kind of go, no, they know, they who's cover two?
And then it would be for you know, it would
be quarters and or six or whatever.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
So yeah, that's hard. That really is hard. Knowing what
we know, it's hard to get away. It's hard to
listen to announcers. That's why you are the best there
ever ever.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Bruised from all the pan.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
He does know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
And to what you said, truly, the first look when
I was the analyst for all those years with Heat
and the guys that I work with after that, my
first look was always exactly what Jerry always used to
tell us. You look at the safeties first, and they're
going to tell you what the defense in rotation, see
what they're doing. And then once you see that, now
you have a reason for understanding, well, why was that
(37:15):
pass complete or why was there suddenly a big gap
to run into right there? Well, that safety rotated over
the top and he completely took himself. So you're right.
But those are the kinds of those are the kinds
of things that that we tend to look for these days,
I guess, I guess the point of my question was
are you are you happy in retirement? Is life good
for you these days?
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Uh? You mean do I miss coaching and playing football?
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yes I did. Yeah, I missed the competition of it,
and I miss I missed uh the uh, the teaching
part of it too. And I think that the probably
the most gratifying thing I had as a coach was uh,
trying to get a point across and teaching and watch
your players do it on the field, knowing that yeah,
(38:06):
they got they got so I wouldn't. I wasn't just
you know, uh talking to be talking. They were, they
were getting it and that was probably the most gratifying
thing for me. Uh in terms of being a coach,
watching your guys be successful or what you you tried
to teach them to do. Uh, that's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Did you hey, buts did you try to Uh? Did
you do anything different? Or let me rephrase this question.
When you became a coordinator. Was that bigger Obviously it's
a more responsibility, bigger pressure. But did you like calling
the defense? Or did you would you rather have just
been a linebacker coach and let somebody else call it?
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I mean, what was the I like calling the defense? Uh?
The because uh I liked the companions of it. Uh.
Working with Mike Tomlin. Uh and I know Mike for
a long time. Mike, Mike, just to tell you quickly
our relationship, so you'll know how it was when I
(39:16):
worked for him. Uh, when I was coaching at Memphis.
My first ten years of coaching was coaching in college.
I was coaching in Memphis.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
We had a guy named Rip Sheer who was who
is the head coach? He was the head coach at Memphis,
and so he hired me. And I already been there,
uh under another guy, but he held me over and
UH I stayed there. Mike. Uh Tomlin was a GA
for US and Mike Mike had always played wide receiver,
(39:48):
uh William and Mary and Uh he knew everything a
lot about offensive stuff that he never he didn't know
anything about defense. So uh when he came in and
JA made him go over to the defensive side of
the ball and become help the secondary coach. So he
Mike would come in my office every day and want
(40:10):
to talk about the NFL. That's all he wanted to
talk about was the NFL all the time. And so
I mean and so he he learned how to coach
the dbs and stuff like that. And then after about
two years he left and went over to Arkansas State.
And my thought, my whole thought process when I got
(40:31):
into coaching, was I'm going to stay in Memphis and
raise my boys in Memphis. I'm not going to move
around all over the place. Because the worst thing I
hated about coaching was having to move my families. I
don't want them to have to move all the time.
And so that that year Mike was witness a couple
of years. He goes over to Arkansas State and he
(40:51):
calls back over to me and uh talks me into
leaving Memphis. And he's sitting there saying, hey, rip, he said,
go over his shoulder that you he ain't gonna ever
let you do. So he was. He was trying to
get me over so he did. He got me over there.
So I went over for one year and then I
(41:12):
went to Cleveland after that. I was hired by the
Cleveland Browns after that, and uh uh Mike went on
and started coaching with Tony Dungee and all those guys. Yeah,
and then uh he went to Minnesota, got a got
the coordinator's job at Minnesota, and then uh, Bill Coward
retires and and and Mike calls me up and says, hey, man,
(41:35):
they're gonna they're gonna interview me for the head job.
He said, but I think I'm just a token because
he's black, you know what I mean? He said, But
I'm pretty sure I'm just a token. I said, Oh no, man,
you do a good job, they might give you the job.
So uh, he did a good job and they hired
And when Mike came in as a coordinator, I mean
(41:58):
when he came in, we had just got through, uh,
going to the Super Bowl, winning one, okay, And I
told him at the time, because I knew him so well,
I said, man, you don't need to make any changes
on defense. We've been you know, we're going to Super Bowl.
We still got the same We don't need to change anything.
And so defensively, so he didn't. He kept everybody and
(42:23):
uh and uh he kind of stayed out of it
for a while. And I was coaching the uh uh
after he had been there a couple of years and
had learned our terminologistuff. Uh during the game, he would
make calls. He would make defensive calls and boy, just
this tick will go off.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
But he had a gut he had a gut feel.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Yeah, yeah, he gut feeling. But Mike was Mike was
the ball, so you know, he got his way. He
could do what he wanted to do. And so uh
he made some calls with dick and bows the court
and he made some calls when I was a coordinator.
You know, sometimes it gets frustrated because you've got in
your mind what you want to try to do. For instance,
I give you an example. Uh, A lot of times
we'll look at on first down, what people do on
(43:11):
first down. If they run the ball first down, they
get less than three, then then eighty five percent of
the time they would come back and throw the ball.
Or if they run the ball and get you know,
five or moore yards, they're gonna come back and run
the ball again. So that was a lot of tendencies
for a lot of different coordinators, the way they call
stuff offensively, you know. And so uh, we would use
(43:34):
that philosophy quite a bit in terms of what we
were calling, uh, defensively and uh, Mike wasn't cut off
called up on what we were two. So he started
coming to the defensive and figured out figured all that
stuff out, and then uh uh made some calls of
his own, you know, and uh uh and it wasn't
(43:55):
it was nothing wrong with it because he had come
and do what he wants to do and all that stuff.
But Dick would get mad every down. Then he'd say,
he'd say, okay, but that's your boy.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Keith, you know, what We've talked to a lot of
different guys, and we'll continue to talk to a lot
of guys here on this particular program. And you can
tell a coach a former player and coach versus a
former player and somebody who has gone on to do
other other things because you still, you know, you can
(44:29):
talk the kinds of strategy that actually does go on
game in and game out, and the preparations, the rewards
that you get for the hard work that you're doing.
And so I appreciate that because I've done both like
you have for a really long time, and you know,
(44:49):
I kind of you get in that, you get it
in your mind. Oh my gosh, exactly right. And I
do think you are an evil human being, you know,
being a defensive coordinator because of how you have tried
to stop offenses over the years. So you can't be that,
you know that, Goodie two shoes, I know that. But
(45:14):
but it has been fun watching your career both and
it was great that you know, I can have I
can still call you one of my teammates in the past,
and I'm sure Rapeskins absolutely.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
Is that the great how we have with each other.
Isn't that a great deal, And to me, it is
that's a great deal. You go through something like that
with a lot of different people and different teams and
stuff like that, but it's you know, the guys who've
done it together. You have a little something something that
(45:50):
maybe the rest of us don't.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
And when you saw my name on the phone call
to ask you to come on the show, you answered
the phone, which is you know.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
He wouldn't have done it if it was I.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Know on the phone because it was a teammate.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
What the heck does you must want something I'm not
going to.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Well Listen, even though you say you you and Sharon
never get in a.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Fight, listen, we you know there you are one of
those guys. And Z and I talked about it when
when they asked us to do this, uh this podcast
that we we got to get we gotta get butts
because A he was one of us. Be He's got
great stories and had just such a terrific career in
the NFL and two time Super Bowl champion with the Steelers.
(46:35):
It's great catching up. Now the next thing is you
and Janet come out here and visit, like on Alumni
weekend or something that that we can all get together
and uh and share a cup of coffee and uh
and talk about old times.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
How would that be out a lot of ass, a
lot of We.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Have plenty of them already today.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Coming on.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Keith Butler, Oh, thank you Butts. It's great talking to you,
one the all time greats, not only with the Seahawks
but in the National Football League as well. But thanks
for being with us. For all of you folks out there,
thanks for listening. Zee as always a pleasure, brother, and
we will see you folks on the next time around.
You're listening to Seahawks Stories, teaking you behind the scenes
with your favorite Seahawks set.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Back to Bey and Zorn, who's back to pass as
time looks for the left sideline, throws a bomb down there.
He's got a man in front. He makes to grab
a travel It's a thirty down to the twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
They'll never get him. He scores touched.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Down Seahawks powered by Seahawks Dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And Zorn later in perfectly a Rabel who goes in
to score on an eighty yard pass and run play.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Now here's your host, the voice of the Seahawks, Steve
Raeball and Seahawks legend Jim Zorn. Let's always remember that friends,
Seahawks legend Jim Zorn.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And the big voice of Steve.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I hope everybody's doing okay out there. Seahawks Stories time
and we welcome in listen. One of the really great,
not only great players going back in the day, all
the way back to nineteen seventy eight in fact on
the Seahawks team, but really one of the great guys
and turned into as Jim Zorn did, one of the
terrific coaches in this national football League. Keith Butler is
(01:04):
joining us today. But's how you doing good?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Rage? How you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Man?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Good to hear from both us.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
We're we're doing terrifically. I get to see you, or
at least I used to once in a blue moon
when we'd play the Steelers. But we're gonna start talking
about the old days. And I gotta think I was
thinking about this last night that when you came to
the Seahawks in nineteen seventy eight, it must have been
quite a thrill to be on a team with guys
(01:31):
like me and.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Jim, especially listening to that opener, that's right. I'm sure
he got real emotional about.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
You offensive guys always.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Hey, Ray, did you ever get upset when we would
go three and out and you had to come back
on the field or was that just the way it was?
Because I know we got upset, We got upset with
long Drive against us having Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, Uh. The only thing up said me, was when
we were able to win or couldn't win, And that
wasn't a whole lot we you know, we went nine
and seven a few times and then uh ended up
going to the playoffs and all that. But but uh,
I had a lot of fun, a lot of guys,
(02:25):
good guys on the on the Seahawks team, great people
and uh, great teammates and George Keith.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
When you came in and played, who were the three
guys you know, there's usually three linebackers, uh, starting and
playing together, especially on early downs. Who were the guys
that you played with early? And how did that? How
did that change over the years?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Uh, Sammy, it was Sam Green, Sammy Green, Yeah, and
Beason Terry Oh so okay?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And Cherry played the middle and you played on the
strong side.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, well I played I played right outside linebacker, right
played left outside.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So so you sometimes would have a tight end on
you and then other times.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Not Yes, yes, huh as outside linebackers then and then
uh lay on down the line. When Chuck Knox came in,
they changed it to thirty four defense, and then I
moved into inside linebacker. In thirty four defense.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Did you ever have to call the the defense you
guys wanted to play? Or did Sammy Green or Terry
Beeson call it? Call the defense?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Uh? Terry, Terry called the defense for the most part. Okay,
Well we got to the thirty four defense, I called it.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, inside.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I was an inside linebacker then.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But what do you remember about those those defenses in
those early days, Remember, we had a we had a
head coach in Jack Pitterra, who was a defensive based coach,
coach the Purple pep Leaders coach, the fearsome Forsome in
LA defensive lines. What do you remember about those days?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I thought it was uh uh, it gave us a
chance to win for the most part in terms of
in the four to three defenses. The guys that you
got to have, I think are the guys up front
and uh meaning that those guys have got to handle
a lot of things, different things, whether it's rushing the
(04:24):
past or stopping to run wherever it may be. And
I really enjoyed playing with those guys up front. They
did it. They did a good job. And Terry did
a good job too. He did a good job. And
so with Sammy, Sammy wasn't say much. You know, Sammy
wasn't talking very much. He was trying to lift the board.
He want to do everything else. So, uh, it was
(04:44):
a lot of good guys to play with, good guys
in the secondary and stuff like that. So we had
we had a lot of fun and uh uh, you know,
try to get in the playoffs as much we could. Uh.
When we get in the playoffs, I think it was
my third year were there.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I think it was nineteen eighty three. I believe was
the first player.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I was five years. Yeah, we went to uh we
went to didn we go to anty Championship?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah? We lost to the Raidars in LA.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Beat him twice that year. Couldn't beat him a thirty
You know what happened?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Rags? Uh? Uh? Well, because we we we got here
and okay, we got to there and then and then
I called my parents to get you to get ready
to get your tickets to go to the super Bowl
because we beat them twice. Sure, and they're out of
the vision. So uh, me thinking, oh, we ought to
beat them anyway, so we didn't. They end up beating
us and win the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I'm glad to know that after all these years, we
can blame it directly on you, but that.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It was Hey, Keith, when you uh, when you played, Uh,
did you find it easy to make a transition from
playing to coaching and did you change, like did you
change philosophy of being around both for so many years
with the Steelers, or how did that happen for you?
(06:05):
Were you or did you want to play defense like
you did in Seattle?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well? Uh uh, the thing I enjoyed about the whole
thing is uh, guys learning and what what was it?
What was I trying to teach? Was big for me.
And I really started thinking more and more about linebackers
being like a quarterback on offense. Why because they had
(06:33):
to know what what what's going on in the back
end and and what's going on in front of them.
In other words, they had know what everybody on the
field was doing each and every defense that you called.
And I still I still think that, I still believe that,
and that's what I've tried to do with all my players,
all my guys I've coached, uh that you know, they
(06:55):
they've got to know what everybody in front of them
is doing, but everybody's back back of them is doing,
so they can use their help for the most part,
you know. And for for for defensive to be a
good defense, I think you got it. You have to
stop the run and make people throw the football, make
them throw the football, know when they're going to throw
the football, and then get after them when they throw
(07:17):
the football. Now, if if they can run the ball
on you, then play action is a big problem.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, for the defensively, so.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
And that's that's one of the reasons I always believe
that if you can stop the run, you gotta worry
about play action because they ain't gonna play action, They're
gonna drop back and throw the ball. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I feel like I'm in your I'm in your linebacker
meeting room right now. And that's that's it. That's exactly right. So, Uh,
did you change that philosophy from being a player or
did you have the same philosophy when you were a player.
Did you kind of feel like you were the quarterback
on the.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Defense and that we had to make the calls. Yes,
uh zee, yeah, we we you know, we had to
make calls. We had to say at the front, we
had to change the coverage if we had a double calls,
stuff like that. So, uh, those guys were, uh, those guys,
the linebackers were the guys who had to change change
(08:12):
the calls and make sure everybody's on the same page
in terms of what defense that you're now playing after
you've changed the call. So that's that's that's big because
if you mess it up once or twice, man, nobody trusts.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You, no, and it's it's really gap control that you're
calling right when you call a different defense, were also
different gap controls and uh, things like that, coverage, coverage responsibilities.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
And hey, but that changes since since we've been out
here in Seattle for obviously for Zee and I have
been here forever. But in the last what thirteen years,
I guess, since Pete and John have been a part
of this organization, the stability here in Seattle has been
one of the things that I think has meant this
(09:03):
franchise has continued to win over the years. The example
of Pittsburgh is maybe no greater example of stability in
the National Football League. What was it like to be
a part of that organization for so many years? You
worked with Mike Tomlin, the family ownership. Guys were just
they'd come there, they'd stay there, they'd retire there like you.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, uh, rage I had. I had a lot of opportunities.
Uh when I went there and we started winning and uh,
you know, going to to the playoffs and then getting
in the Super Bowl and we went to three Super
Bowls when I when I coached there and won two.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Of them, and I remember one you won.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, super Bowl forty.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yeah, I can't even believe you're you're even talking
about that as though you won that game.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Yes, yeah we did. But uh uh, win of those,
win of those was a lot of fun to me.
I mean I really enjoyed uh uh those games and
the competition of it. The competition was huge, and uh
and and teaching the guys and having the guys that
that played for you do what you ask them to do,
(10:20):
and uh uh when they got it down and played
good defense and everybody played together, that was probably the
most rewarding thing. Yeah, that that, you know, when in
the Super Bowl, getting a couple of rings forty was
big for us. It was big for me, you know,
it was big for me and all my all my guys,
(10:41):
all my players knew it, you know. Uh And and
they played they played well, and I was I was
proud of them and really thankful for those guys that
I was able to coach.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It was a great game. Did you when you get
to the playoffs in the National Football League, did you
feel like coaching was easier because those players took it
themselves and knew what you know what they needed to do. Uh,
Whereas before that, trying to win and trying to get
them to do what you ask them to do was harder.
(11:16):
Did you feel it was easier in the playoffs?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Uh? It was in that you didn't have to sell
them on anything. They know what works and what don't work,
you know what I mean, And they trust you and
they start they start trusting you as the coach. And
then you know, they listened every every word that came
out of your mouth because you know, evidently you wouldn't
have you wouldn't have gotten the playoffs unless what you
(11:41):
would telling them was true.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Ye, that's right, that's.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
You know, those guys, those guys learned to trust you.
When they learned trust you and do all that, I mean,
it's a it's a to me, it's it makes the
game a lot of fun nowt there is. To me,
there's a lot more pressure, uh when you when you
advance into the playoffs and all the way to the
(12:08):
super Bowl. You know, and everybody says, well, you got
this far, you got this far. Yeah, that's fine, but
are you going to win the super Bowl or not?
I mean, that's that's what we're all. That's what we're
all in it for. That's what we're all. We're in
it for. Both of y'all played. That's what y'all wanted
to do, and both of us. I mean, you know,
me playing with y'all wanted to do that at Seattle
(12:28):
as a player. You know, we got we got to
the AFC Championship. We you know, I was kind of
hoping that we would go long after that and maybe
a year after that or so we we get into
the super Bowl, you know, because we got that far already.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
But can you remember back on some of the best
best like best talent that you played against when you
were with the Hawks. Any any players come to mind
on offense that you had a runningbacks? Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, running backs. I always thought about running backs and
who so many great great Earl Campbell, I mean all
of them, I mean the they It seemed like everybody
had good, good running backs. Yeah. I think everybody, everybody
you know they had a franchise, had a good running back.
And they're always hard to stop. I mean, uh, they're
(13:22):
not just them, I mean the quarterback to the quarterback
for the two the two guys that I was concerned
about as a linebacker more than anything else. With the
quarterback and uh and the running back. Obviously wide receivers
I didn't have to cover them, but I didn't have
to cover backs and tight ends, you know, and you
try to stay away from mismatches like wide receivers and
(13:45):
stuff they tried to do we did and all that,
but uh, it was always a lot of fun. I
felt like to see the game plan come together and
you know what coverage your playing and how hell we
are you doing that? But up front you're playing the
gap control like you talked about Z, it was mildly
important and putting those together in terms of you know what,
(14:09):
what kind of defense are coverage? You're going to play
cover three. Obviously it's an eight man front, so you
want to make sure you gap down and you win
the running game. You should win the running game when
you're doing that. And too deep is probably uh, you
don't want to be in too deep when people are
running the ball, so all the all the stuff is
(14:30):
not accounted for. You know, you got you've got seven
gaps accounted for, not eight, and so that makes makes
it a little bit tough.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Alls I can tell you, Alls I can tell you
is too deep was hard to read when you had
Troy Polamalu in Oh yeah, either the strong side a
gap or the other side, and then he and he
would be the deep half safety. I have to snap
of the ball, okay.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, run it back there.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But in fact that that leads me to my question.
The This is probably like saying, Okay, who is your
favorite child? But give me the name of the guy
maybe if even if not the most talented, but maybe
the best football player that you coached in your long career.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Oh boy, I coach a couple. Uh uh. James Ferrier,
I'd have to say him. He comes to mind. I
coached the inside and outside linebackers at UH, at Pittsburgh
and UH. In terms of inside linebackers, James was was
the quarterback of the off of our of our defense
(15:38):
in terms of making the checks and stuff like that
and still being a real good football player in his
gap all the time, making sure he did his job
first and then he helped his buddy. You know, that
was big for me in terms of I tried to teach,
make sure you do your job first and then then
help you buddy if you can, you know, but take
care of your responsibility. And he did a great job
(15:58):
of that. Uh. Uh I had some good outside linebackers.
James Harrison was a good outside linebacker. Uh Jeordy Porter
was a good outside linebacker. Lamar Woodley. Uh those guys
were good players. Uh I had had that and a
lot of good inside guys to both and uh I
(16:21):
really appreciate those guys and why they played. You know,
like I said earlier, Raves, if you if you're successful
in what you're telling them, they'll listen to you, you know.
And and I can't blame them. I was the same
way as the player and so and ravees.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
When Buttz is talking about this, you know, as a
coach uh on other staffs getting ready for the Steelers, Uh,
he's he's giving us names that we had to contend
with from the offensive side. Are we going to chip him?
Are we gonna chip? If you don't chip James Harrison,
you are not going to block him with one guy
(17:03):
the whole game or rarely even in a quarter, You're
he's going to get free. And so, yeah, we would
have to prepare for these kinds of guys. These are
these are some of the top players.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Those are extra those are extra meeting guys, right, oh yeah,
for the coach, for the coaching staff.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yah.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
And but when you're when as you were talking and
you were talking about those great players that you coached,
and and Ze and I and you to a certain extent,
you're a little younger than we are. But we can
go back to the days when we played Pittsburgh back
in the seventies, when they had guys like Andy Russell
and Jack Lambard in the middle, and uh, they just
(17:47):
had some some of the best well they had best
the best defenses around for so many years back there
in Pittsburgh. So that tradition continued under coach Kawer and
UH under coach Tomlin now and and in no large,
no small part to you, but because of what you
did and the coaching that you brought to those guys.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And you know, Jack Lambert had such a big name,
but he was not a big guy. He was a
small guy. And I'll never forget looking on the other side.
You know, he's he's on the other side, and he
is right there in front of me. And when he smiled,
he had teeth that he would take out during the
you know, before the game, he would leave his teeth,
(18:31):
especially as two front ones in the locker room. Sure,
and then we come out and give give you that
big smile, and he had those wild eyes, and I just,
you know, it's almost distracting, you almost crack up. Wait,
where are your teeth?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
My man? All right, here's my Jack Lamb, here's my
Jack Lambert story. We were playing back there in Pittsburgh.
It was either seventy eight or seventy nine. And I
obviously the all of that, the steel curtain, all those
guys just to melt blunt. I mean, you know, the
great Super Bowl teams. So we run. I don't know
what the heck the play was, but I was in
the slot, you know, in for the tight end, and
(19:07):
I was running a shallow crossing route, probably trying to
pull people away from Largin on a crossing route behind me.
But that goes without.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Saying, right, So, but I was looking.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
For you first, Sure you were. So I'm running across
the middle, and I can see Lambert, you know, in
his middle linebacker spot, and I don't think he sees me.
So I figured, man, I might just pop out the
other side here, I can get the ball turn up field.
I might be able to run for a while just
about the time I got behind him. All I remember
next was this this flipper, this arm swinging back and
(19:42):
hitting me right in the throat as I was running
behind him. And I mean he just dropped me like
a sack of dirt. I mean, I was he hit
me so hard on the throw. I mean I couldn't breathe,
I couldn't talk. And my folks, my parents were at
that game in Pittsford. After the game and we ended
up losing, unfortunately. But after the game, you know, my
(20:03):
dad I kept, you know, saying, well, what did you
think of the game? And he said, man, that Jack Lambert,
he's a great football lyrist. He said, Daddy almost tore
my Larnux out.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But I'll.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
But that's the way you could play.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Then.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
That was the game there, my lord. And you know,
I'm sure that was I was just one of many people.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
He didn't even look at you. You didn't think he saw.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You, no, And he just threw that right arm back
and he always had it.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
There was a steel play.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
He had those big, big padded forearm things.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, four arm pass.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, he was there's one of the greatest football posters
I think ever. Is kind of a cartoon drawing of
Jack Lambert with this this wild glare in his eye
and with no teeth, you know, smiling and you know,
dirt and sweat and coming off him. Oh my gosh.
But he he loved to play. He really did love
(20:59):
to play, and that that great.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
But he had some you know what he was He
was a good player, but he had some guys in
front of him too. The yeah, and that makes it,
that makes a difference to Acker.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I remember Wyman, you know, my broadcast partner always talks about.
He said, there was nothing more made me feel more
confident as one of those inside backers than looking up
front and seeing the big butt of Cortes cancer right
in front of me, because he knew that Tes was
always going to take up at least two guys and
that he would be free to make play run. And
(21:34):
as a as a guy who then ended up playing
inside for part of your career too, I'm sure you
had to believe that as well.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
But oh yeah, big time. Yeah, yeah, somebody get in
front of you, man, you can gives you a chance
to play. And uh, Joe Nash for me, uh huh
was a guy for me. He was a guy that
if he played well, I played well. And if he's
the guy that could use two guys up because he
(22:00):
was a nose guard for us. You know, we had
Jacob Green, we had Jeff Bryant, bullet, Jeff Bright and
then and then uh you know, those those guys helped
us quite a bit. I mean they, I mean, uh
they they did a great job. I thought Joe Nash
did it. Probably was a little bit more stable than
(22:22):
anybody else up there.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
And uh yeah, for a guy that was always for
a guy that was as wide as he was, he
could get real skinny in those gaps, you know, he
couldn't get slide.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And an undrafted free agent with first round picks on
either side of him, and those three guys playing together
and they we were talking to Jacob not long ago.
He played. Yeah, he played like eighty five percent. Those
guys played like eighty five percent of the plays in
the game. You couldn't get him out of the game.
In fact, and now the whole idea is rotation, right.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Nichol plus Nickel and dime.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That changes.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Now, did you get him on third down? Get get
the rushers on third down?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah? Did you have to come out on third down?
Or did you stay on on third down? Did they
bring a nickelback in for you?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I did late in my career, not early.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Okay, you know, because you had, like you said, you
had to cover backs and or tight.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Ends, right right. Those were the guys you had to
match up against and if you if you couldn't you know,
they tried to. Yeah, you know, Bulleyhead got a chance
to take and play on third down. He got to
play the linebacker because he could run. Yeah, Greg games,
you know, and I call him Bullehead all the time.
(23:39):
So I see him. I see him from time to time.
He was he was, he was down here. Steve was
you know, Steven uh and Uh. Sherman Sherman was down here.
Yeah right, So we got a chance to go out
and meet with him and spend some time with him.
So we had a good time.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
We saw Smitty when he was up here for something.
Was it the alumni weekend? I think it was that
Smithy was up here. I don't you know. I say
this about all you guys that I had a chance
to play with over the course of the years. But
if there's a better person than Sherman Smith, I don't
you know. I know I'm sitting across from one, and
we got one on the phone here. But I'm telling you,
(24:17):
Sherman Smith is one of the true.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Quality people and.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Great coach, great teacher. What is it about it? Mike
Holmer and your old boss used to say this all
the time. If I wasn't a coach, I'd have been
a high school teacher. And he thought the best coaches
were those guys who were teachers. Not necessarily the guys
that obviously were screamers or yellers or found a way
to get the guys fired up, but guys who could communicate,
(24:42):
who could teach and could make it understandable to those
guys who were playing, right, That's that's what you guys
really are.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
But ye, yeah, I mean a lot of people call
it teaching congressions. Knowing what you want to teach first,
and how you teach it, and what do you start with?
You know, whate of these guys to me was always
what are you looking at and where you Those are
the two biggest things. I always trying to teach my
guys and then knowing what everybody else is doing around
(25:09):
and using that that stuff. But uh, you know, I've
had a very fortunate life. I think in that that Uh. Uh,
I got to play. I got to play all my
life for a living. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah,
I mean I didn't have to the only time I've
ever worked is when I was failing hay cutting brass
(25:32):
and sometime back, you know, when I'm sixteen seventeen years old. Yeah,
I mean other than that, man, you know, I coached football.
Coaching football beat the heck out of working for a living.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Ie. Hey, uh, did you you when now you're retired,
You've you've quit the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
They probably still want you back, but you've you've you've
gone on your way.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You didn't settle in Seattle? Had you always planned on
settling in Tennessee? Or like what I tell you?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
What? Yeah? See, I tell you. Uh. The biggest thing
for me is, you know, I was born in North Alabama,
a place called Huntsville. And by the way, Huntsville was
named the best place uh in the in the United States.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You live in you but I really appreciate that information.
That's very pregnant.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, I thought, I tell you. Anyway, Anyway, I lived
there in wins Goood, Memphis, and and my boys. Really,
my three sons. They were probably the most important uh
factor in where we children are going to live. That
then her dance uh Kim folk and mind Kimfolk. My
(26:48):
brothers and sisters all lived down in Huntsville. I've lost
my both my parents. I lost my mom back in January,
and uh uh my brothers and sisters live in Huntsville still,
so we live in nash She was kind of in between.
I've got a boy. Uh, my middle son is in
good Virginia. He's a he's a lawyer and he works
in Virginia. And he's got three of my grand children, uh,
(27:13):
two year olds and a boy. And then I got Blake,
my oldest. Uh, he's working in Memphis. He's a head
coach at uh Christian uh high school there he called
Evangelical Christian School. He's the head coach there. And then uh,
he's got three three of my grandsons. And then uh,
I got one that's living uh here in Nashville, and
(27:35):
he's not married. I don't know if nobody anybody Mary Murphy,
you know.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Woman, listen, if miss Jane, if Miss Janet married you,
if Miss Janet married you, there's somebody for everybody, trust me.
How is Janet doing? We used to call her miss Janet.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
She was that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
You didn't cross her. You never crossed her either.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
He's been married for forty three years.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Fight Yeah, no, nobody, nobody.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Miss Sharon and I we're forty two years this year,
and you know we have a few disagreements, but I
wouldn't say we've had fights.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Now.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Well, kind of we didn't see things quite the same way.
And generally I was wrong and that as long as
you realize that and you admit that you're wrong right away,
then that's usually that took that took care of it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well, you don't tell you you haven't been able to
come to any alumni things or anything like that because
you've been coaching, because that just takes up so much time.
You've settled now, you've got family that you're living by
and growing growing up with. And uh, but maybe just
maybe as we go along here, uh, you should try
(29:01):
to prioritize because everybody would love to see you prioritize
coming out Janet and visiting at least.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Yeah, I've thought about that. They really started thinking about
that a couple of weeks ago, you know, thinking about
what's going on, and Tys had something going on. I
think there uh one time and then uh, I haven't
had a chance to Yeah, I haven't had a chance
to go up there in a long time, and I
(29:31):
really like to go back because it's beautiful Seattle. Seattle
was beautiful, y'all know that. I mean it's it's a
beautiful place to live.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And uh not quite not quite Huntsville though.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
I.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Which is the greatest place. We just learned that we.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Don't have uh, we don't have snow capped mountain.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
What was what was Pittsburgh like? You were there a
long time? What was Pittsburgh like?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah? I liked it. I mean it's uh, you know,
the call it three rivers and all that stuff for
a good reason. There's uh uh a couple of rivers.
We're home. We were on one of the rivers there.
In terms of our our complex, uh the stadium, you know,
they they've worked that out and changed it a couple
(30:17):
of times. But it's a nice place. I really enjoyed,
uh Pittsburgh, you know, you know, uh play golf and
all seats as much as I could. And uh I
enjoyed uh working from there. You know, everybody's got to
go to the uh try to prepare for the our
(30:44):
what we call it. They I've been hitting the hands
on the top. Yeah, yeah, we got your ready the
draft for all all the time and go to go
all over the world. Are they to war guys out.
I didn't miss that a whole lot, but I enjoyed it.
(31:06):
I enjoyed I'm enjoyed it to make sure I knew
who was in the draft and how how could they
affect us and how can they fit on our team
and stuff like that. That's a lot of work there.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, you worked with Dick lebou for I don't know,
for a lot of years. What did you end up
teaching him? Uh in your career there or maybe vice?
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, yeah, he was a dB, you know he he
did everything from that point of view, just like you
raves as a wide receiver and you see as a quarterback.
You know, from a teaching standpoint of talking to people
about the game from your standpoint really from a position
(31:51):
you played more so than anything else. And then you know,
you you learn from playing with those guys for guys
what they should be doing or what they're supposed to do,
or what you may think they should do and and
that helps quite a bit. And uh and with Dick Lebow,
(32:12):
they had been around the game for a long time
and he was a real good secondary coach, had probably
knew more about it than anything. And the linebackers, he
knew a lot about the linebackers too. He let me
coach though he he he uh uh he didn't. He
would set out things for us and then he would
(32:33):
ask us, uh, you know, what about this? What about that?
And morning our opinion about a lot of things. Yeah,
and uh he used it in that way and he
did a great job, a great job.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think that's what makes a great staff too, is
trusting the guys that you've hired, not just having to
be one voice and hey, we're going to do it
this way, and you guys, you guys have to conform
to this way, especially if you you have talent. I
mean you have talent at the line backer position. You
not only played it, but you even coached before you
got to Pittsburgh. So uh, I mean that speaks a
(33:07):
lot to me to to that you would say, Dick
Lebo allowed you to coach, allowed you to have input,
asked you is just you know, I'm working the third level.
You're working the second level, Keith, how is this going
to fit with what you what you got going?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Wasn't it sort of the same way for you? I mean,
Mike allowed you to coach your guys and one of
the input when you were his Oh yeah, quarterbacks coach.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
We have to to get him on. But yeah, yeah,
he allowed me to do my thing. And you know,
I probably he probably looked at me and going, what
is he doing? But uh, yeah, because I had some
I had some drill work that was interesting, but that
that was a big piece of my you know, my
skill thinking. And I'm sure but you answered this question too.
(33:56):
You you actually know what it feels like to be
on the field and play. So you're not going to
give your linebackers something that just didn't didn't work because
you knew, you know, you knew what could work and
what couldn't work.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Right. But dickle Bolt was the same way. I mean
he was he was a dB for a long time
in the National Football League. Yeah, and he was the
same way, exactly the same way. And uh he is
a great guy to work with. I mean a great
guy to work with because you know, he knew a
lot about the game. A ton about the game, but
he lets you express your thoughts and your feelings in
(34:31):
terms of what you think your guys could do, you know,
And that's a that's a tough thing about. If you're
going to be a coordinator, Uh, you got to trust
the guys that are they are coaching and trust that
they know what they guys, their guys do well and
what they don't do so well. And that's important too,
and so uh when you're trying to get a game
(34:53):
plan together. That's that's the biggest part of it right there.
What do your guys do well? And what do you
got to take away that the guys you're you're fixing
the day on play? What do you got to take
away in order for them to beetle? And Uh, if
you can figure that mess out, then you can.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Hey, but you've been you've been out of it now
for a little bit. Are you still watching it closely
on TV? Every week? Do you miss it? Do you
miss being down there on the field? Do you miss
being in the meeting rooms?
Speaker 4 (35:28):
What I what I miss is seeing the secondary That's
what I miss. I can't I can't tell what's going
on unless I know what those safeties are doing.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
So you don't miss just the general feeling of being
in pro football. You miss actually sitting there looking at
the secondary.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Yeah yeah, well yeah, to see what they're doing. I mean,
at least I know what they're playing, you know what
I mean. I mean, whether they're playing, whether they're playing
a zero coverage or you know that free coverage or what.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Does that help? Does that help you? Does that help?
That doesn't help? You know what the linebackers are going
to do. You just want to see what the secondary
is doing, so you know, well there, you know, because
if it's zero, there's probably a blitz or you're maybe
you see of I crack up sometimes because I hear announcers,
not like Steve, Steve's the expert, but I do hear
(36:19):
announcers saying, oh, he blitzed there, and it'd be a
four man rush, you know, or you know, and you
just kind of go, no, they know, they who's cover two?
And then it would be for you know, it would
be quarters and or six or whatever.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
So yeah, that's hard. That really is hard. Knowing what
we know, it's hard to get away. It's hard to
listen to announcers. That's why you are the best there
ever ever.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Bruised from all the pan.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
He does know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
And to what you said, truly, the first look when
I was the analyst for all those years with Heat
and the guys that I work with after that, my
first look was always exactly what Jerry always used to
tell us. You look at the safeties first, and they're
going to tell you what the defense in rotation, see
what they're doing. And then once you see that, now
you have a reason for understanding, well, why was that
(37:15):
pass complete or why was there suddenly a big gap
to run into right there? Well, that safety rotated over
the top and he completely took himself. So you're right.
But those are the kinds of those are the kinds
of things that that we tend to look for these days,
I guess, I guess the point of my question was
are you are you happy in retirement? Is life good
for you these days?
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Uh? You mean do I miss coaching and playing football?
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yes I did. Yeah, I missed the competition of it,
and I miss I missed uh the uh, the teaching
part of it too. And I think that the probably
the most gratifying thing I had as a coach was uh,
trying to get a point across and teaching and watch
your players do it on the field, knowing that yeah,
(38:06):
they got they got so I wouldn't. I wasn't just
you know, uh talking to be talking. They were, they
were getting it and that was probably the most gratifying
thing for me. Uh in terms of being a coach,
watching your guys be successful or what you you tried
to teach them to do. Uh, that's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Did you hey, buts did you try to Uh? Did
you do anything different? Or let me rephrase this question.
When you became a coordinator. Was that bigger Obviously it's
a more responsibility, bigger pressure. But did you like calling
the defense? Or did you would you rather have just
been a linebacker coach and let somebody else call it?
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I mean, what was the I like calling the defense? Uh?
The because uh I liked the companions of it. Uh.
Working with Mike Tomlin. Uh and I know Mike for
a long time. Mike, Mike, just to tell you quickly
our relationship, so you'll know how it was when I
(39:16):
worked for him. Uh, when I was coaching at Memphis.
My first ten years of coaching was coaching in college.
I was coaching in Memphis.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
We had a guy named Rip Sheer who was who
is the head coach? He was the head coach at Memphis,
and so he hired me. And I already been there,
uh under another guy, but he held me over and
UH I stayed there. Mike. Uh Tomlin was a GA
for US and Mike Mike had always played wide receiver,
(39:48):
uh William and Mary and Uh he knew everything a
lot about offensive stuff that he never he didn't know
anything about defense. So uh when he came in and
JA made him go over to the defensive side of
the ball and become help the secondary coach. So he
Mike would come in my office every day and want
(40:10):
to talk about the NFL. That's all he wanted to
talk about was the NFL all the time. And so
I mean and so he he learned how to coach
the dbs and stuff like that. And then after about
two years he left and went over to Arkansas State.
And my thought, my whole thought process when I got
(40:31):
into coaching, was I'm going to stay in Memphis and
raise my boys in Memphis. I'm not going to move
around all over the place. Because the worst thing I
hated about coaching was having to move my families. I
don't want them to have to move all the time.
And so that that year Mike was witness a couple
of years. He goes over to Arkansas State and he
(40:51):
calls back over to me and uh talks me into
leaving Memphis. And he's sitting there saying, hey, rip, he said,
go over his shoulder that you he ain't gonna ever
let you do. So he was. He was trying to
get me over so he did. He got me over there.
So I went over for one year and then I
(41:12):
went to Cleveland after that. I was hired by the
Cleveland Browns after that, and uh uh Mike went on
and started coaching with Tony Dungee and all those guys. Yeah,
and then uh he went to Minnesota, got a got
the coordinator's job at Minnesota, and then uh, Bill Coward
retires and and and Mike calls me up and says, hey, man,
(41:35):
they're gonna they're gonna interview me for the head job.
He said, but I think I'm just a token because
he's black, you know what I mean? He said, But
I'm pretty sure I'm just a token. I said, Oh no, man,
you do a good job, they might give you the job.
So uh, he did a good job and they hired
And when Mike came in as a coordinator, I mean
(41:58):
when he came in, we had just got through, uh,
going to the Super Bowl, winning one, okay, And I
told him at the time, because I knew him so well,
I said, man, you don't need to make any changes
on defense. We've been you know, we're going to Super Bowl.
We still got the same We don't need to change anything.
And so defensively, so he didn't. He kept everybody and
(42:23):
uh and uh he kind of stayed out of it
for a while. And I was coaching the uh uh
after he had been there a couple of years and
had learned our terminologistuff. Uh during the game, he would
make calls. He would make defensive calls and boy, just
this tick will go off.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
But he had a gut he had a gut feel.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Yeah, yeah, he gut feeling. But Mike was Mike was
the ball, so you know, he got his way. He
could do what he wanted to do. And so uh
he made some calls with dick and bows the court
and he made some calls when I was a coordinator.
You know, sometimes it gets frustrated because you've got in
your mind what you want to try to do. For instance,
I give you an example. Uh, A lot of times
we'll look at on first down, what people do on
(43:11):
first down. If they run the ball first down, they
get less than three, then then eighty five percent of
the time they would come back and throw the ball.
Or if they run the ball and get you know,
five or moore yards, they're gonna come back and run
the ball again. So that was a lot of tendencies
for a lot of different coordinators, the way they call
stuff offensively, you know. And so uh, we would use
(43:34):
that philosophy quite a bit in terms of what we
were calling, uh, defensively and uh, Mike wasn't cut off
called up on what we were two. So he started
coming to the defensive and figured out figured all that
stuff out, and then uh uh made some calls of
his own, you know, and uh uh and it wasn't
(43:55):
it was nothing wrong with it because he had come
and do what he wants to do and all that stuff.
But Dick would get mad every down. Then he'd say,
he'd say, okay, but that's your boy.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Keith, you know, what We've talked to a lot of
different guys, and we'll continue to talk to a lot
of guys here on this particular program. And you can
tell a coach a former player and coach versus a
former player and somebody who has gone on to do
other other things because you still, you know, you can
(44:29):
talk the kinds of strategy that actually does go on
game in and game out, and the preparations, the rewards
that you get for the hard work that you're doing.
And so I appreciate that because I've done both like
you have for a really long time, and you know,
(44:49):
I kind of you get in that, you get it
in your mind. Oh my gosh, exactly right. And I
do think you are an evil human being, you know,
being a defensive coordinator because of how you have tried
to stop offenses over the years. So you can't be that,
you know that, Goodie two shoes, I know that. But
(45:14):
but it has been fun watching your career both and
it was great that you know, I can have I
can still call you one of my teammates in the past,
and I'm sure Rapeskins absolutely.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
Is that the great how we have with each other.
Isn't that a great deal, And to me, it is
that's a great deal. You go through something like that
with a lot of different people and different teams and
stuff like that, but it's you know, the guys who've
done it together. You have a little something something that
(45:50):
maybe the rest of us don't.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
And when you saw my name on the phone call
to ask you to come on the show, you answered
the phone, which is you know.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
He wouldn't have done it if it was I.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Know on the phone because it was a teammate.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
What the heck does you must want something I'm not
going to.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Well Listen, even though you say you you and Sharon
never get in a.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Fight, listen, we you know there you are one of
those guys. And Z and I talked about it when
when they asked us to do this, uh this podcast
that we we got to get we gotta get butts
because A he was one of us. Be He's got
great stories and had just such a terrific career in
the NFL and two time Super Bowl champion with the Steelers.
(46:35):
It's great catching up. Now the next thing is you
and Janet come out here and visit, like on Alumni
weekend or something that that we can all get together
and uh and share a cup of coffee and uh
and talk about old times.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
How would that be out a lot of ass, a
lot of We.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Have plenty of them already today.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Coming on.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Keith Butler, Oh, thank you Butts. It's great talking to you,
one the all time greats, not only with the Seahawks
but in the National Football League as well. But thanks
for being with us. For all of you folks out there,
thanks for listening. Zee as always a pleasure, brother, and
we will see you folks on the next time around.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.