December 18, 2025 • 45 mins
Matt and Wes break down the impact that Aaron Rodgers has had on the Steelers during his first season with the black and gold. The guys then go though some of the key stats surrounding the team as they prepare to head to Detroit.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Your tunes about Drive on your twenty four to seven
home of the Black and Goal Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
What's going on Steelers' Day? Shit, Welcome to the Drive here.
It is your favorite Steelers program on a Thursday. Wes
Yuler and Matt Williamson with you for the next two hours.
As we're having some fun, we're swapping some holiday stories.
I need to scoot over a little bit closer to
Matt here to make all this framing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
All first ever sip out of my mug.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, we got we got our fancy branded bugs here
TV coming correct with some other Christmas gifts and things
like that.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We're feeling like that's awesome. I'm psyched about that.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's seeing Pinocchio where he's like, I'm a real boy,
that's all, you know. I'm starting to feel like we're
a real show as we rock and roll here at
a fun time of the year for everybody, a fun
time in the National Football League and just to be
a football fan in general. Matt, I know we touched
on this a little bit yesterday, but today kicks off
really five straight days of importandness awesome football games starts
(01:10):
tonight with what could be kind of the de facto
number one seed in the NFC play in game. We
had a similar thing last year with the Vikings and
the Lions towards the end of the season, Seahawks and
the Rams. Tonight, one of those teams in all likelihood's
gonna have a first round by the other is gonna
have to go on the road in the first round
of the playoffs. It's a stark difference.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
At least you get to go visit probably the NFC
South winner, which is favorable, but then after that you're
on the road that.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You know you're not a playoff game at home and
all like despite maybe having the second best record in
the NFC. That's life in the National Football League. Friday Night,
of course, the Sooners roll into a part of me.
I think it's the other way around, the Crimson Tide
roll into Norman, Oklahoma. We got Bama vers Sooners Friday Night, Saturday,
(01:58):
all kinds of college football games, NFL games Saturday Night
as well, Sunday, full slate of Big Week sixteen action,
and then a pretty big one on Monday Night football.
So five straight nights here. I'm looking forward to it.
It's gonna be a lot of fun. It's things are
picking up and Matt is they like to say, it's
the most wonderful time of the year.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Sure is it? Sure is ho let's go with that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
A very thirty thousand foot question for you here to
get us started. Matt. Some of the stuff that we
do require some notes, some numbers, some prep, and we'll
get into some of that as we roll along here.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, the Lions here too.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Do you want to dig into the Lions and Matt's stats?
But I just thought a good thirty thousand foot question
to get us started. And it's weird because we've talked
plenty about Aaron Rodgers almost every single day, almost every
single day, Almost every single guest that we have, we
ask them about that or her about that.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
If it's Missy Matthews, I'll probably bring them up the
labs and some point.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I'm sure we will, but I almost feel like we
don't discuss Aaron Rodgers enough, or at least maybe haven't
these last Cup weeks. So a real general question for you,
but I feel like it's a good one to kind
of get started here on this thirsty a little bit.
Aaron Rodgers so far this season, has he met your expectations.
Has he exceeded your expectations? I don't think he's underwhelmed.
(03:16):
I guess that's an option. Yeah, yeah, But to this point,
where were what eight and so so fourteen out of
seventeen games in the books? Yeah, met expectations, exceeded expectations
somewhere in between, still in wait and see mode. How
would you answer? What's kind of your first reaction to
that question?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I like questions like this because I have to go
back and remember what I was thinking at the time,
because that's where the expectations, right ri ight? You know,
So you can't just be like he's MVP. I thought
he's going MVP. Yeah, I mean, like, so when the
Steelers ended their season a year ago and it was okay,
Fields up, Wilson's up, what's the quarterback situation going to be? Like?
(03:56):
Rogers was not high on my list basically because of
his age and he had just went to the Jets
and this was superficial. You know, I had not dug
into him a time. I'm like, he brings a lot
with right, I mean, is that what this team needs
at this point? And I had thought about Shock and
(04:16):
mill Row and all in all the draft didn't really
work that way, especially after the Metcalf trades, Like, you
don't have a second or second pick, you know you can't.
I mean you're taking Shuck or Dart instead of Harmon.
I was never big on Dart at the time. I
thought that was a smidge early, a little rich for shock,
and you had to have something in place before the
(04:38):
draft to or at least a plan, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I mean, you didn't want to put all your eggs
in one basket, right.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
But when Rogers became more and frankly I didn't love
Fields or Wilson as the answer either. It wasn't like
I stayed on tab buttter. Why wouldn't you bring Backfield?
Some people were, why wouldn't you bring back Wilson? Some
people were I didn't feel strong about either one of
them as boy when they left him, Yeah, I upgrade.
They're replaceable players, you know. I mean they did some
good things, did some bad things. But frankly, even a
(05:07):
little before the Rogers momentum started, there wasn't a lot
to pick from, and I started re evaluating. I'm like,
that's definitely the best off. I mean, there's clearly is
they must have agreed with me. Obviously it got done,
and then I really started digging into him. I watched
every snap of his Jets tape, and of course, like
I do with now, I pay attention to everything, but
(05:28):
I didn't focus on it study it. And so the
short answer to your question is he's exceeded my expectations
because there was a lot of things that concerned me
from his Jets tape.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's a good interesting way to put it.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, I mean again, I had no connections to him.
He's not a steel Well, there's going to be a
Steeler who cares. I mean, I'm gonna be as impartial
as possible, but he's in a bad organization. Him and
Garrett Wilson are both good players, but they're they're oil
and water in terms of being in the right place
and things like that. There wasn't much else to throw
to he early in the season, clearly, especially at his age.
(06:06):
His coming off Achilles thing was an issue. You know.
So if you're just watching week one, Week two, twenty
twenty four Jets tape, not great, it gets better, but
their season gets worse. They fire the coach at like
week six or something like that. I think there was
a coordinator.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Change as usual with Adams.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, and that got better, you know what I mean. So,
I mean there was things you keep watching. You're like, man,
I don't think he loves getting hit at this stage
of his career. But you know, I always talk about
quarterbacks like I'm the defense attorney or the prosecuting attorney,
and like, my favorite one ever and I'm dating myself
a little was the first five years of like Sam
Bradford and frankly I've done it with like Lawrence, Like
(06:48):
where if I'm his defense attorney, I'd be like I
got a new coach every year, I lead my teams,
leads the league in drops. You know. Bradford was like
he's always injured. He's on the worst organization in the league.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Like kind of like when Baker Mayfield came in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So there was plenty to like. But there was plenty
to like.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
But if I'm trying to put them in jail, it's like, yeah,
but you're the first pick of the draft, so I
got to bring these guys. Oh you know, you got
to elevate them. I don't care about that. To show
me the baby, you know. So back to Rogers, it
was like man, I see where he's coming from, of
and it's not they didn't give us all. But am
I really going to put my body in harm's way
(07:23):
for this team that's gone nowhere, that's fired their coach,
that has no chance? Am I going to really stand
in there four seconds in and take a hit to
the chin to really do nothing?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
You know, like Joey Bosa kid.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Right? So that stuff worried me. But it because, frankly,
every every quarterback I've really seen thirty eight and above,
maybe not Brady, but including Ben like getting hit a
lot less than when they were twenty five. I mean
absolutely I would too. Yeah, I mean we're all human beings,
you know, and that doesn't mean you can't play anymore
(07:57):
or you're worthless. But that part concerned me, and I'm like,
how well is he going to fit with Arthur Smith's system.
He doesn't seem super excited about throwing intermediate or over
the middle, and that's a big deal. But he's Aaron Freakin'
Rogers and he's going to bring a presence to this
team and he can still sling it. So I got
(08:17):
more and more excited. And then frankly, the day after
he signed we were down at mini campyp or OTA's
at that point, I forgive which one, right, So.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I think the two weeks of OTAs optional had been
in the books, and the mandatory mini camp was about the.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Stuff like five minutes before that, which was scripted as
could be. I mean, they figured this out months ago,
and I couldn't keep my eyes off them, like everyone there,
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
You and I were trying to do a show, like
kept getting distracted of like, sorry, what did you just
ask Aaron Rodgers walk around.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And he wasn't and he was just sitting there and
he was he was in sneakers right, and you could
tell he was so engaged.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And then talked to Mason. He'd talked to Will Howard
and talked to Arthur Smith, he had talked to the
time to everybody move.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It was never a wasted minute. And every time I've
been around him since, he is so calculated and wise
and smart and prepared and nothing is an accident and
there's never a wasted minute of the day.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You know, you and I were fascinated just having lunch
every day at training camp watching him in the cafeteria
because it's like he would walk into the cafeteria, always
with his wired headphones, by the way, look, which is
still funny because there's such a few people on the
planet side one of them wired headphones. Hey, ride the
horse that got you there. You don't have to turn
your back on the wired headphones at this point. And
(09:36):
we'd beat you. And I would be like sitting there
and he'd walk in, he'd stop, he'd look around, and
he'd like pinpoint, like sit with the DB's today, I'm
sit with the offensive lineman today. I'm gonna go sit
with the linebackers coaches.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Today and go sit in the same corner by himself.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And or he'd be somebody.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
But but it was every calculated.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It was calculated everything he did and really showed up
and and I'm you know, I'm like, Matt, you've done
this a long time. He fell for some of this
and not that it's an act. With Russell Wilson a
year ago, you know, I was all eyes on Russell Wilson,
like that's a potentially Hall of Fame quarterback. He's new
around here, wonder what everyone's eyes are on him. And
I was impressed, you know, with especially through camp, but
(10:18):
Rogers was more impressive and he was more impressive on
the field, you know, I mean, like, ooh, how about
that throw or him running over to Friarmouth and saying,
do this a little bit different? You know, two percent different.
You can to see how the communication was. So my
expectations rose and rose and rose. But the short answer
is he still exceeded him. You know, I was like
(10:39):
forty two year old with some questionable what's some concerns. Obviously,
you don't get a guy for free if there's no concerns,
you know, no doubt. And I'm like, history shows he's
probably gonna go backwards because a few of us get
better after age forty. But he's better this year than
he was last year. He's in a better situation, and
I think the ripple effect on the tea the teammates
(11:01):
is invaluable.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You know, I really like how you kind of started
all that, because my answer would be I would be
somewhere in between met expectations and exceeded expectations. But I
think I'm leaning more towards exceeded expectations. Now.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
The last two weeks of I don't overreact the last
two well, the last two weeks.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Have definitely helped that, but it's also Matt like.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Because two weeks ago I've been like exceeded, but now
I'm worried.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah right, and I you know, but and as much
as I'm with you on that, I also like the
games get more and more weighted as the schedule gets
deeper and deeper. It's the nineteen eighty four George orwell,
all animals are created equal, but some are more equal
than others. Like, yeah, all seventeen games are created equal,
but some are more equal than others.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I would say, boy Jimmy Johnson when he was the
head coach of the Cowboys. It's like, well, if Michael
Irvin Rammitt walks into the meeting late, I may frown
upon it, but if the fifty third guy walks in, I.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Go, I'm gonna wear right exactly right. I think the
way that he has felt like he's elevated his game
these last couple weeks, it felt like he's, like we've
talked about, been the high tide that has raised all ships.
With that that has me leaning towards more exceeding expectations
as of late. But I think what you just highlighted
at the beginning there was important I hadn't even really
(12:19):
considered it. There was so much concern about I mean, guys,
we don't have to kid ourselves. Aaron Rodgers this past
year had a documentary released on Netflix called Enigma right right,
not entitled Quarterback or Superstar Old Jacket Anima.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
McAfee all the time, and you know, right right right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think there was a lot of fair concern. He's
a unique cat. He is California as California can be.
I mean, I think there was, rightfully so a lot
of I don't even know concern, but just thought process of, yes,
he's going to elevate your quarterback position. He's going to
be better than any buddy that you've had since Ben,
(13:01):
since you know, prime pre elbow injury, Ben Roethlisberger.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And those are things I said about him before I
even watched him play football. Yeah, like, I think this
will be their best quarterback since Ben's elbow.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
But the concern was, is he gonna go on McAfee
every week? Is he going to talk about vaccines in
ayahuasca and Anthony Fauci and you know all this other
controversial topics that he's dove into in the past. Is
you know, is is he going to be doing interviews
here and there, and the Steelers go on a two
or three game winning streak and there's some finger pointing
(13:33):
and things like that and things start to go south.
He hasn't done It's been the opposite, and he's gonna
choir boy.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
He went and visited the Pyramids instead of going to
OTAs with the Jets. I'm like, is he gonna host
Jeopardy during training camp or something weird that yeah, that
I want to deal with and then talk about it
on McAfee.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Is he gonna do some goofy during the bye week
that has nothing to do with football? All right?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
All right? And I don't know about you, but I
had a bunch of friends, not just like fans or
Twitter followers there like, man, I don't stand for anything
of this guy. I don't know if I can be
a Steeler fan because and my response was, do you
think you agree with every political take of every fifty
three guys in that locker room? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
They look right into the cameras. I say, there's a
lot of weirdos.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
In your favorite player. You did agree with it?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
All these guys have been the prom king, the prom king,
superstar since they were sixteen years old.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And they don't know you, and you don't know them,
you're not their friends.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Totally, right, he is by far the or he is
not even close to I guess I should say, the
only unique cat in that locker room inside those four walls. Right,
But he was also a little more unique than others.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
And he's been around longer and everybody knows it and
people care what you say. So he could be on
different media.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
He's on the big He was regularly on Pat McAfee,
the biggest sports show in the world. He was not
regularly but often enough on Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast
in the world.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
If Dylan Cook had unique takes on the world, No,
but he would care. Yeah, it's it's if your fungus
on your shower in the show, you're colorful, if you're
winning games, otherwise you're a slot. You know.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
He hasn't done any of that. He has gone radio
silence on everything. He has been just football, like I.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Like, I would love to know remember when he came here,
when they were both feeling each other out, Like I
wonder if the Rooney's Tomlin said we love you, we
want you to be your quarterback. But that's not really
our thing around here. And he's probably like, I love you,
but who am I gonna throw to? Or how am
I gonna cut? You know, I got questions for you,
a questions for me. We're both interviewing each other, meet
(15:38):
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, will give you the autonomy that
you wanted the line of scrimmage. Yes, but you're not
going on McAfee and Joe Rogan and all these different
shows every week and talking about all kinds of topics
outside of football.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Right right, right. We don't have the right to say
you can't, but we that's what we do around here.
You know I respect that.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, absolutely, I that to me as you kind of
lay it out, I think is key he has. You've
talked about this with the personality type that you want
from your quarterback. You want the guy who is the
coolest guy in the room, walks in, everybody loves him,
He brings the locker room together. Everybody wants to hang
out with that guy. They want to go to his
house for dinner type thing. And I think he's been
(16:17):
he he hasn't been the enigma, lightning rod that he
was at times. At the end of Green Bay and
in New York, and even at those times, his teammates
were always clear that he was a great None of
his teammates have ever said anything bad about him. It's
always been, it's always been, this guy is a great leader,
is a great teammate, He's awesome in the locker room.
But I man, he has he has to. He has
(16:38):
used a a Johnny Cash song, and he has walked
the line ever since he got here. Yes, I think
even even if you were the most optimistic person in
that regard, I don't think you could even imagine that
he has been this business oriented color between the lines.
I'm the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback and nothing else. And I
think that's gone a long way. I think Jalen Ram
(17:00):
has bought into that and talked about that.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I obviously he demanded respect the second he walked. Before
he walked in the door, everyone's waiting for him walking
the door. You know.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You and I joked about how that first day of
mini camp, like that's a lot more difficult to find
a parking spot today. It's usually difficult to find a
parking spot down there on the South Side, but it
was extra I mean, the the attention, the eyeballs, the
local and national media and magnet that he is was
undeniable amongst his teammates, amongst the fan base. Those first
(17:30):
few days of training camp, everyone wants to see Aaron
Rodgers man. You're seeing people in jets and packers Aaron
Rodgers jerseys that were showing up to Latrobe to get
a glimpse of this guy. I think it has gone
about as swimmingly, about as well as possible, and so
i'm I'm I'm leaning much more towards exceeded expectations. Yeah,
(17:50):
albeit with the caveat of there's still three very crucial
games remaining.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Of course, and you gotta finish the job. Hopefully there's
four and five remaining. That's where I was about to
go next. S love it, okay. I mean everyone on
the planet h Tolman the Zebeta losing record. But when's
you want the last playoff game? I mean I hear
that every day. Everyone in the planets hears it every day.
We all know these things, folks. You're not breaking news
out here now. I like Rogers chances of beating Alan
(18:18):
Lauren Stroud, Nicks, May whoever you're going to face in
the AFC wild Card round, assuming they get there, way
better than other options, any option they've could have had,
including Dart Shock Wilson. In fact, that's goal one, is
to win a playoff game and go from there. I
(18:38):
think he gives you the best chance we.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Got like a minute till we got a break. Yeah,
but maybe today or sometime soon we should have the
conversation of I think it's very clear of all the
teams in the AFC playoff picture right now, if you
could have one quarterback, it's Josh Allen. Oh, that's non controversial, right,
like in.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
The whole league.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And yes, I mean I think you could maybe make
a like Matt Stafford.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
He's awesome too, But if I have to win a
playoff game.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I won Allen, especially in the AFC. Yeah yeah, yeah,
but I think you could start to argue Aaron Rodgers's
number two in the AFC playoff picture right now. No Mahomes,
no Burrow Lamar, no one game for one game, yeah
yeah yeah, Like Herbert deserves a shout. Absolutely, There's some
other guys in there. Drake may deserves a shout.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But many of them I would put ahead of Rogers
on my quarterback tiers. Yes, yeah, but if I have
to win a game in Foxborough in January or whatever, you.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Know, maybe we'll do that exercise next week.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Ben They're done a thing.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Power rank your AFC quarterbacks and your NFC quarterbacks currently
in the playoff picture based off who you would want
to lead your team, because it's clearly Josh Allen one.
But then I think you could start to argue Aaron
Rodgers legimately.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, I know, if you get up against it. So
this is a bigger conversation and it's mostly negative. I
do have concerns with the style of offense the Steelers run,
which isn't all him compared to the rest of the
league to win a Super Bowl. But that's not if
you asked me, did he exceed expectations or not? I
mean they throw short of that They and I'm not
(20:04):
gonna saying him, they throw short of the sticks a lot.
They throw those backs a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
The run game's been very inconsistent.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, I'm talking more of the quarterback, the quarterback cent
you know what I mean, Like, and he doesn't if
he's not gonna run, you know, I mean, like, is
there a ceiling on this style of offense probably probably right, right, right,
but I think there's a pretty high floor too, right.
But Mahomes wasn't available either, you know, it wasn't like Hm,
should I think Rogers or Josh Allen? You know, yeah,
(20:34):
right right.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Let's get to a break here. Let's let's continue this
conversation a little bit and start to dive into Matt's
stats as we talk more about the Detroit Lions as
we roll along here, We've got plenty to get to today, Matt.
We've gotten a few tweets in the last week. Can
you guys break down the Steelers playoff outlooks and scenario?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, we need to do that too.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
We're gonna do that where we talked to Bob Labriola.
A whole bunch of fun stuff on deck for you
today as we're just getting started here on the drive,
Wells Shooler, Matt will since Steelers Nation Radio on the
Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Your tune's about drive on your twenty four to seven
home of the Black and Goal. Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Back on the drive here as we roll along on
a Thursday with plenty to get to. And it's been
a different week right with the one less shows in
the Monday night football. Next week's gonna be a little
different too. With Christmas. It's it always feels like from
Thanksgiving through the end of the season, like all bets
are off, you know, you know, you gotta be light
on your feet and ready to adjust and move.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Sometimes your game, especially because Steelers are always in until
the end gets flexed on you.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Or point and especially now the entire week eighteen is
kind of flex scheduling where no one knows when they're
going to be playing.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Saturday games, and everything disc gets weird.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
If you're like the Raiders and the Browns and the Cardinals,
you know when you're gonna be pl playing, it's gonna
be Sunday at one o'clock.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
And we covered them, we'd be pretty used to it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
But if you're anyone who's still in the hunt, could
be Saturday, could be Sunday, could be during the day,
could be in the evening.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
And this something the Steelers are very customed to. Like
people give them enough credit for that, Like that's the
Tomlin experience going through COVID, you know, like changing on
the flies rough and they don't always win, but I
mean it's at least they've done a lot of it
over the last several years.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
You know this better than me because you were in
those locker rooms and in those organizations and facilities at
a point in your career. But athletes and coaches, man,
are such creatures a habit.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
It's one of the things that shocked me most when
I really started to get It's unbelievable. I mean, every
coaches are maybe worse than athletes, and worse is the
wrong word, but I mean, you mess with their Tuesday
at two o'clock schedule, throws them off, and.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I've become OCD to the max.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I become that way my Christmas schedule, mind.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
The schedule for next week. Before we started recording.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I always joke I do have a spreadshe home that well,
I did. I set up, you know, for every week
because I know where I'm going to be at two
o'clock on Tuesday or all the time. But you got
to change it a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I have to do that same thing. Now we've got
a massive family calendar because we as I was joking
about yesterday, my schedule completely flipped with this new role
this year. Oh sure, Like I used to be in
here from like nine to three every day and that
was it and very static. And now it's kind of
all over the place. And I got a four year old,
the two and a half year old doing dance and
soccer and a million different things, and so have to
(23:28):
stay on it. And those guys are so routine oriented
in that for everybody, you know, that's the thing. Everyone's
got to deal with it, the coaches, but the coaches,
it's it's it's psychotic. Yes, it's like neurotic and psychotic
and very pedantic. But those guys have a method and
to the madness and it's worked for them for for
a lot of their careers to get to this point.
(23:49):
So you can't knock it, Matt. We kind of have
a method to our madness. But some things have been
thrown off this week. One thing that we, as Bill
Cower would say, we will not be the tiered from
here on Thursday, is to get into some of Matt's stats.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Line seems interesting, It really does. Some statistical stuff really
stands out there.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It really does. And the one that I wanted to
start with you this was something that you retweeted on
your Twitter account ex Twitter, as Dale would say at
Williamson NFL teams with the lowest pressure rates allowed this season. Yeah,
Steelers are number one. Yeah, best only team in the
NFL below thirty percent. They're at twenty six point five
(24:29):
percent of the time. I think there has to be
a direct correlation between that what we were just talking
about with Aaron Rodgers, how no quarterback wants to get hit,
but especially quarterbacks that are in their late thirties and
early forties. And I have to think again, there's a
correlation there. There's a parallel with what feels like them
doing a good job of keeping Aaron Rodgers upright and
(24:49):
him looking like he's still got plenty of gas in
the tank here midway through December.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
So I'm gonna burst that bubble a little bit, okay,
you know, because I'm gonna be as objective as humanly possible.
The ball out really quick, get the ballut really quick. Yeah,
So it's easier to not allow a pressure if I
only have to two point five verse three point five. Absolutely,
if I got to keep this guy off my quarterback,
it sure helps. So I'm a nerd. One thing I'm
(25:16):
going to do Williams when the season ends, especially because
it really applies to Steelers, is I'm going to build
a spreadsheet of all the pressure rates, percentage blitzed verse.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Verse time, we'll do we'll do a whole show on that.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And we'll look at who really are the best pass
protecting teams out there, you know, and just you'll let's
learn the picture a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
It's like the X axis and the Y axis.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
And what I often do is like, these are the
eight worst, these are the eight best, these are the
ones in the middle, and okay, but yeah they're really
good in this way. They're really good in that way.
And plus pressure rate. To me, like in Matt's stats,
I never put pressure rate. I just don't a thousand
percent trust it because if you and I are watching
a game, like, oh that was pressure, I don't know
if it was pressure. You know, there's a little bit
of subjectivity to.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It, or it's made to tackle. Yeah, there's a lot
of subjectivity at times, but.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's growing in popularity and acceptance. And even if you're
a percentage off, over the course of your who.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Cares, you could get pretty close to either the top.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
You know, the bit bottom or in the middle of whatever.
You know. So I think that's important, and I do
think a lot of our listeners rightfully show don't give
this pass protection nearly enough credit. I mean that probably
blows Pep away. You're number one. I don't think they're
the best pass protecting unit in the league, but I
think they're definitely in that top.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Top ten, top twelve.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know, I say eight because thirty two there's a order,
there's sixteen in the middle. Then there's no bodomate. But
I mean I even found this today. I mean, everyone
hates pass rush win rate? Why does everyone hate pass
rush ring weight? Because Miles Garrett was always better at
it than TJ Watt, So everyone would be like, what
has more sacks? I don't want to hear about this
stupid pass rush win rate stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Funny how that choos on the other foot, Now from
both sides, from the Steelers, all these Browns athletes are
talking about sack numbers.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Now, Miles Garrett, I don't want to hear about these
other guys.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
About TJ's e p A. Look at how many sacks, Miles.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
That's what I'm saying. Like TJ has a better pass
rush win rate, then he has sacks. He only has
six or seven or whatever, but he still wins a
high percentage of his reps.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
His e p A is still outstanding.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It's third behind Williamson and Garrett Yes amongst all defensive
players cumulative e p A. And if you don't play though,
it goes down. Those are counting stats. So he was
actually two and he went to three this week because
he didn't do anything this week. And those guys are good.
But I found this too. I tweeted this out a
couple hours ago, this if we pass rush win rate
(27:49):
now that it still helps to get the ball out.
But somebody out there, and I don't know who is
judging who won this rep. You know, Pennay sool versus
t J. Watt who won that.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Rep fifty times over? And oh yeah, yea yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
And they're experts in their field or whatever. It doesn't
mean they're alway right. Yeah, they're close. Their fourth best
in pass rush rush win rate on defense and their
fourth best in pass rush blocking rate on offense.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It's a good place to be.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, pass rush makes the world go round. And even
if you get the ball all quick, you can't convince me.
And these stats back it up in a big way.
They're really good at pass rushing. They're really good at
pass blocking. That's good place to start, good place to start,
good place to start.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And man, there's been the investment in that area over
the last few years in the draft and free agency.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's the backbone the team is the pass rush and
has been every step of the way.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You and I joke about it a lot, but it's
kind of like a tongue in cheek. It's half joking,
half serious. That's you wear the black and gold. That's
your god given birthright.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, I mean, Gilden Porter, I mean we go back
and back back.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Is to lead is to lead the league or at
least be top two, three, four five in in sacks.
He influence QB hits and heavily influenced the game. And
how when your opponent, When the opponent offensive coordinator on
Wednesday is previewing the Steelers defense, that's the number one
thing on the grease board on thousand.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah. Yeah, And like in this game, one of the
stats I've been there in the general area is the
Lions defense basically faces the most deep balls in the league.
The Steelers face the fewest. Yes, it's because of pass rush,
and I know Hutchinson and they have a lot of sacks.
But it's easier to get a sack when people are
throwing deep and they're holding the ball along it.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
For four seconds, right and a half.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Where people are not holding the ball are going deep.
Because well, it's also was very successful early in the year,
the short short short, and the Steelers adjusted well. But
it's been like this for years that they face like
the lowest average ups of the target over the last
five years. I promise you in the league, you know,
if you if you accumulated, because it's a pass rush.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It's a heritage thing, man Like, it's part of you know.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
They invested in it, They invested in it, they invested
in it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
It is some thing that they have believed in for decades,
through different regimes, through same family, but different ownership. And
it's something like you know, Rob King and I a
couple of times a year do those Steelers alumni dinner shows,
you know, anniversary weekend shows, and that's something like we
(30:20):
talked to the Lavon Kirklands and the Jason Gilden's and
the Lamar Woodleys and the Joey Porter and it's something
that they all talk about and it's it's it's such
a unique, cool this is like shiny silver object, but
it's such a unique cool Steelers legacy lineage heritage thing
for me. That like we talked so much about the
heritage and the lineage at pass, rusher and center and
(30:42):
like all these different positions, not quarterback and running back
where the teams and wide.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Cleaver left tackle, you know where the.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Teams had a ton of success. It's like edge rushers
and centers. That's what we that's what we do here
in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
You probably encountered some of this. I got a ton
of it, But there was that year or two before
war Zach Frasier. I don't care what they do. They
got guess yeah, Like, what do you mean they're not
the best center in the league.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Benthler still brings it up.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
I can't sleep, I mean pretty often. Yeah, I can't
sleep at night because I see what my team does,
not have the best center in the league. You know,
Like it's been like that my whole life and everybody's
whole life. Like, what do you mean even average center
or below average center. We have to have the best
center in the league. What are you talking about? But
use the first pick in the draft on the center.
I don't care about positional value exactly. I'll wait till
the second round.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Wait on the second round. Give me Tyler learned to bomb,
and give him to me right now, exactly. And so yeah,
it is that that part kind of always makes me laugh. Okay,
let's take another break here, reset yet before we go
for it.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
This is not a knock on Broderck Jones. I heard
someone say this, and I believe it's true. Last week
was the best left tackle game of the year. Ooh,
and we're talking about protection.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
From your protection standpoint. I thought it was the No,
I mean, I thought it was all encompassing.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I thought it was the best sixty minutes of left
tackle game of the year.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And that's more of a test meant to Dylan Cook.
I assume what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
There, Jones is kind of all over the place. I mean,
we know that he's not a rock solid, most consistent
guy in the league. That game was the most consistent,
good play, icessive, and I was also rewatching it less
and less impressed with pride the job. Who you're going again?
Yeah you know, yeah, I mean he was a better
name than he was product. But it was a really
(32:22):
good game. By Cook.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That's encouraging. You're gonna need another one of those on
Sunday in Detroit for sure, without the yeah yeah, More
Matt stats as we close down the first hour of
the show. On the other side, it's the Drive on
Steelers Nation Radio on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Your tune's about Drive on your twenty four to seven
home of the Black and Goal. Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Rolling along here with more Matt's stats on the Drive. Matt,
this one not surprising, but I think I think it's
kind of a It can be glass half full or
glass half empty, depending on how you look at it.
Because the Steelers just did very well against a talented
(33:12):
Miami rushing attack without t J Watt and losing Nick
Herbing in the process. Right now, we're gonna wait and
see on Herbig's status. Will hopefully get the injury report
here in this show. But with Nick Herbig on the
field this season, Steelers all shock me because because the
proverbial thought is high Smith and t J you're better
(33:35):
rush defenders, and Herbig's a specialist pass rusher, six man
off the bo He's like bringing your power hitter in,
you know, out of the dugout or your your sharpshooter
off the bench, exactly right, Mariano Rivera right out of
the bullpen with herbig on the field. This season, Steelers
allow four yards per carry to the opposition running back
(33:57):
when he's off the field four point nine yards, nearly
an extra yard per carry, Like, speaks a lot to
his value this year.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, and now I always like to peel these back, like, Okay,
what are we missing other than just that sentence? Sure,
you know, like the Cam Hayward stuff last year was
super alarming, but boy it added up. You know, it's
like he's that good because his his splits were even starker.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
But simmon, it's like second best run defense in the
league when he was out there, second worst when he
was on the sideline. It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And then I started thinking, I'm like, well, is her
big out there? Situationally more, is he out there? And
the answer is yes, you know, is he out there
in third and nine and not third and one? Yes,
But that would actually make it the opposite because it's
a lot easier to get a six or seven yard
run on third and nine than it is on the
(34:47):
goal line. Sure, you can only get one yard to
gain or whatever, so that would actually work in his favor.
And I'm like, well, is he just not played enough?
I'm like, well, I mean high Smith has missed time.
He's played entire your games. It's not I mean he's
he's been out there quite a bit. Now. I'm not
saying that he's their best run defender. I still think
(35:09):
Watt is clearly that on the edge, and I think
high Smith's better than Herbig. They're two of the best
edge steelers in the league. But I think that stat's
pretty telling. I mean, he's he's out there in a
lot of different situations. The eyeball test says it. And frankly,
when these beat reporters interview the defensive coaching staff, they've
been saying it all year long. We think Nixon much
(35:31):
improved run defender, and he is.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
And I wonder if there's some he's a great player,
by the way, is I wonder if there's some lack
of perception meeting reality with opposition offensive coordinators, Like if
they look at it and they say it's it's almost
working against them where they're saying, when Herbig's on the field,
we have to run his direction. Yeah, maybe because they
(35:54):
haven't caught up with how close to the team right
in that regard, Like, I bet there's some of that.
I would think that there would have to be for it.
I mean again, to be nearly a yard difference, like
that's that's a lot for him.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
It's not one hundred snaps, it's quite a few. I mean,
it's a high percentage of being out there for an
entire season or deep into December.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yes, correct, Another thing that I wanted to discuss with
you here. We touched on this a little bit yesterday
with Chris Hallick. But eleven personnel usage and how that
relates to the Lions defense, that's.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
What I'm new to a lot the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Well, then let's get into it. Steelers using eleven personnel
just thirty five percent of their snaps. Now, that's thirty
first in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
But that's still I loved how Chris said this. Though
it's still more than.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Still a lot, it's still a third of your snaps,
a little more than a third of your season. I
often use a fullback exactly right, happening six times a game.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Right, We've never practiced it. It's still the most prominent
form of personnel grouping in the league, and they use
it a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
And what's crazy about it is when they are in
eleven personnel, they averaged six point four yards per play.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
That blew me away.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's best in the league.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
In the league.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So Detroit really likes to operate with four defensive backs
on the field at a time, right, which would make
you think that you could take advantage of some eleven personnel?
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Is this so many secondary injuries on top of that,
they want to play their four to three And it's
a great point branches out right, Arnold the first round corner,
he's out. They're pulling like Arthur Malett's and guys like
that off the street too.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So so with DK playing the way that he has
been feeling, fling an mvs feeling like they're settling in. Yes,
Is is this a week that we could really see
the Steelers taking Is that kind of the match up?
Is that the ace up the sleeves of the Steelers
potentially Sunday at Ford Field.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I think it's a game specific game planning thing that
you lean more into this week than ever. I mean,
what were you said they were thirty eight percent or something.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Like thirty five point one maybe yes.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
The week you're fifty five, you know what I mean,
I mean even forty five, right, I was shocked how
good they are.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Top five in yards per play out of eleven personal
national football.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
And again that's not a small sample side. It's still
almost forty percent of your snaps for entire more.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Than more than a third of your snaps for the year.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And we know they don't have the three best receivers
in the league that have trot out there. In fact,
it's been a revolving door of guys not named Metcalf.
And maybe it's you know, we didn't prepare as much
for eleven against I don't know. There's probably some underlying things,
but they're good at it when they are in eleven
and the Lions don't want you in eleven. And a
huge thing I'm gonna say the next two days in
(38:30):
the Drive is the Lions are the most explosive offensive
team in the league and they allow the most explosives
on defense now and it's been getting worse lately. So
you're not going to be in a thirteen to nine
sorry rockfight in Detroit on Sunday. This is going to
be in there a race to thirty five.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
That's how all their games are.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
That's how all their games are.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
They lose a lot of games where they score thirty
one points.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's where they're at as an organization
now because they are really beat up on defense playing
on a fast surface. Whether it's not gonna be an issue,
I think you got to embrace throwing the football more,
throwing the ball down the field more out of eleven.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I also wondered too, if there can be some what
was the the Muhammad Ali the term that he was at,
like the bait and switch or whatever Muhammad Ali used
to Robodo. That's it. The secrets out on how much
the Steelers use Kenneth gain Well in the past game
on for running backs that have at least one hundred
routes run this year, he leads all in terms of
(39:31):
targets over twenty eight percent of the time. Yeah, so
is this maybe a Detroit thinks we're going to throw
the ball to Kenny g and Jalen Warren a bunch
out of the backfield? History shows you well, and let's
get ready to I'm not saying throw at thirty forty
fifty yards downfield every single drive but let's hit some
more of those more and then let's hit some more
of those intermediate routes, which I think we've started to
see a little bit over the last two weeks as well.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I think that's the I've never gained plan for an
NFL opponent, but I think that's something you would have
to strongly consider all week. Game planning for this team.
Is they're they're begging you to do this. It's not
what we do often, but we do it better than
most people think. Maybe we lean into it, especially with
the feeling and MVS giving you more stability there. I mean,
(40:14):
I think they're just more comfortable with the wide receiver room.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I think Aaron Rodgers is more comfortable and Wilson.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Maybe it's I'm not putting those guys out there and
making Darnell and plays may snaps or Friar mooth, but
these guys, Okay, I'm leaning into it. It's going well.
I do Wednesday show with Tom Offerman and Tim Bens,
and Tom had a good point. He's like, this is
nice that we talk about theling and MVS is stabilizing
forces and running the right routes, and professionals think I
(40:42):
student started catching some balls. Like that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, yeah, I mean what feeling I think has three
receptions in two games.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
I think they have like five targets with touchdown.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
But that was his only reception of the game.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Right, Like, now they're gonna have to start catching three
four balls a game too. You can't just be running
around out there getting cardio.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
One thing that I was talking with Tom about was
he was like, do you think Kenneth Gainwell is like
do you just kind of give him the reins is
RB one right now.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Let's not forget Warren was questionable with an illness for
the last.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Year that too.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, But my answer was, listen, if you want to
get where you want to go, if you want to
win this division, like you said, not just play three
or four more games, but hopefully four or five ye
more games, Jalen Warren is gonna have to be a
massive part of that equation. You you knock on game, well,
no it's not, and it's been it's been outstanding what
Gainwell has been able to do. But if you're going
(41:34):
to win the division and then win a home playoff game,
and let us all really start dreaming and believing and
go to places that we haven't been in eight years.
Like everyone like that.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
That's the goal.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
If we were listing key players on offense for that
to happen, Aaron Rodgers won, duh. DK Metcalf two duh.
But then it's probably Jalen Warren three.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Just body of work, reliabilities.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
So I would I want to keep Kenneth Gainwell involved,
but I want Jay. I need Jalen Warre to be
a big part of that equation as well.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, I like, like sixty forty sixty five to thirty five,
where I thought game ball was a ten percent. Now
the fact that he's a thirty.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
To forty percent testament to him.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yeah, he's better than I thought.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Huge testament to him.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I don't want him as a sixty percenter. I'm one
game's different. I mean one game in Dublin, great.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Fine, one game when Jalen has the flu fine, right,
right right? But yeah, that to me is if you
can keep Kenny g doing the things that he's doing,
but get Jalen Warren back to form, that's when you
really start to that's when you.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Really start maybe take it up a notch.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, I get talking about the ceiling of the offense.
That would raise, that would raise the ceiling of the offense. Matt.
The Steelers have only lost one hundred and sixty five
yards on offense from sacks. That's eighth fewest in the
National Football League. Just to kind of get back to
now again, part of that's because they're getting rid of
the ball quickly, right, But that's still that's still an
that's still an impressive number.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
This is something I've just become attuned to in the
last month of my career, is not all sacks are
created equal. Like if you watch Tua, he's running backwards
and it's an eighteen yard sack. That's a heck of
a lot different than Rogers or Brady. You lose five,
here comes a free blitzer. I'm dead. I'm just gonna
go down, not take the hit three yards behind the
line of scrimmage. Okay, it went from second to seven
(43:19):
to third and ten. I can live to fight another day.
It's not third and a million, you know, right, So
that's obviously a culmination of you're not taking a lot,
but they don't. Rogers doesn't take bad sacks. Everybody takes sacks,
but he doesn't take bad sacks. Yes, and I think
that's really important.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And we've talked about sacks are as much of a
quarterback stat, yes, as they are an offensive line stat,
and I think in the majority that's been a huge
benefit for them. There's a couple of times that I
think you could kind of pinpoint. I joked about that
huge hit that he took from Joey Bosa earlier, like
that was one of those felt like he held it
a little bit too long, trying to make.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
A games there where I thought he was off off
his radar was a little off in that department, right.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
The Wi Fi wasn't as strong a right to be,
But that signal has gotten back on track these last
two weeks.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Direct TV has snow all over it and right satellite.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
When it rained, I still direct TV. When it rains,
the TV goes out. When it snows, the TV goes out.
When the dog sneezes, the direct TV goes out. I
actually like that though, because direct TV you can like
log in from anywhere and watch, And yeah, it's kind
of nice in that I don't have direct TV, but
I have a buddy with direct TV who I have
his log in on my cell phone for for such
(44:31):
case emergencies. That was my what I thought was going
to be my go to plan to watch football. In
double word, nothing works. Direct TV blocked. I mean I
knew like the ESPN apps and the Fox Sports apps
would be blocked, and I figured direct TV that'll work.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Nope, not at all.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Nothing. Everything I tried was the best laid plans of
mice and men, and how maybe the only last thing
and the food poisoning I got Friday morning was that
was that was only like a two or three hour
snaff foo. Fortunately it didn't linger as long as it
could have, so I was fortun it in that regard.
Hour in the books another hour ago. Let's tee up
our number two with Bob Labriola on the other side,
(45:06):
West Scheeler, Matt Williamson. It is the Drive on Steelers
Nation Radio on the Steelers Audio Network.
Your tunes about Drive on your twenty four to seven
home of the Black and Goal Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
What's going on Steelers' Day? Shit, Welcome to the Drive here.
It is your favorite Steelers program on a Thursday. Wes
Yuler and Matt Williamson with you for the next two hours.
As we're having some fun, we're swapping some holiday stories.
I need to scoot over a little bit closer to
Matt here to make all this framing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
All first ever sip out of my mug.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, we got we got our fancy branded bugs here
TV coming correct with some other Christmas gifts and things
like that.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We're feeling like that's awesome. I'm psyched about that.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
That's seeing Pinocchio where he's like, I'm a real boy,
that's all, you know. I'm starting to feel like we're
a real show as we rock and roll here at
a fun time of the year for everybody, a fun
time in the National Football League and just to be
a football fan in general. Matt, I know we touched
on this a little bit yesterday, but today kicks off
really five straight days of importandness awesome football games starts
(01:10):
tonight with what could be kind of the de facto
number one seed in the NFC play in game. We
had a similar thing last year with the Vikings and
the Lions towards the end of the season, Seahawks and
the Rams. Tonight, one of those teams in all likelihood's
gonna have a first round by the other is gonna
have to go on the road in the first round
of the playoffs. It's a stark difference.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
At least you get to go visit probably the NFC
South winner, which is favorable, but then after that you're
on the road that.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You know you're not a playoff game at home and
all like despite maybe having the second best record in
the NFC. That's life in the National Football League. Friday Night,
of course, the Sooners roll into a part of me.
I think it's the other way around, the Crimson Tide
roll into Norman, Oklahoma. We got Bama vers Sooners Friday Night, Saturday,
(01:58):
all kinds of college football games, NFL games Saturday Night
as well, Sunday, full slate of Big Week sixteen action,
and then a pretty big one on Monday Night football.
So five straight nights here. I'm looking forward to it.
It's gonna be a lot of fun. It's things are
picking up and Matt is they like to say, it's
the most wonderful time of the year.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Sure is it? Sure is ho let's go with that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
A very thirty thousand foot question for you here to
get us started. Matt. Some of the stuff that we
do require some notes, some numbers, some prep, and we'll
get into some of that as we roll along here.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, the Lions here too.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Do you want to dig into the Lions and Matt's stats?
But I just thought a good thirty thousand foot question
to get us started. And it's weird because we've talked
plenty about Aaron Rodgers almost every single day, almost every
single day, Almost every single guest that we have, we
ask them about that or her about that.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
If it's Missy Matthews, I'll probably bring them up the
labs and some point.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I'm sure we will, but I almost feel like we
don't discuss Aaron Rodgers enough, or at least maybe haven't
these last Cup weeks. So a real general question for you,
but I feel like it's a good one to kind
of get started here on this thirsty a little bit.
Aaron Rodgers so far this season, has he met your expectations.
Has he exceeded your expectations? I don't think he's underwhelmed.
(03:16):
I guess that's an option. Yeah, yeah, But to this point,
where were what eight and so so fourteen out of
seventeen games in the books? Yeah, met expectations, exceeded expectations
somewhere in between, still in wait and see mode. How
would you answer? What's kind of your first reaction to
that question?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I like questions like this because I have to go
back and remember what I was thinking at the time,
because that's where the expectations, right ri ight? You know,
So you can't just be like he's MVP. I thought
he's going MVP. Yeah, I mean, like, so when the
Steelers ended their season a year ago and it was okay,
Fields up, Wilson's up, what's the quarterback situation going to be? Like?
(03:56):
Rogers was not high on my list basically because of
his age and he had just went to the Jets
and this was superficial. You know, I had not dug
into him a time. I'm like, he brings a lot
with right, I mean, is that what this team needs
at this point? And I had thought about Shock and
(04:16):
mill Row and all in all the draft didn't really
work that way, especially after the Metcalf trades, Like, you
don't have a second or second pick, you know you can't.
I mean you're taking Shuck or Dart instead of Harmon.
I was never big on Dart at the time. I
thought that was a smidge early, a little rich for shock,
and you had to have something in place before the
(04:38):
draft to or at least a plan, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I mean, you didn't want to put all your eggs
in one basket, right.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
But when Rogers became more and frankly I didn't love
Fields or Wilson as the answer either. It wasn't like
I stayed on tab buttter. Why wouldn't you bring Backfield?
Some people were, why wouldn't you bring back Wilson? Some
people were I didn't feel strong about either one of
them as boy when they left him, Yeah, I upgrade.
They're replaceable players, you know. I mean they did some
good things, did some bad things. But frankly, even a
(05:07):
little before the Rogers momentum started, there wasn't a lot
to pick from, and I started re evaluating. I'm like,
that's definitely the best off. I mean, there's clearly is
they must have agreed with me. Obviously it got done,
and then I really started digging into him. I watched
every snap of his Jets tape, and of course, like
I do with now, I pay attention to everything, but
(05:28):
I didn't focus on it study it. And so the
short answer to your question is he's exceeded my expectations
because there was a lot of things that concerned me
from his Jets tape.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's a good interesting way to put it.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, I mean again, I had no connections to him.
He's not a steel Well, there's going to be a
Steeler who cares. I mean, I'm gonna be as impartial
as possible, but he's in a bad organization. Him and
Garrett Wilson are both good players, but they're they're oil
and water in terms of being in the right place
and things like that. There wasn't much else to throw
to he early in the season, clearly, especially at his age.
(06:06):
His coming off Achilles thing was an issue. You know.
So if you're just watching week one, Week two, twenty
twenty four Jets tape, not great, it gets better, but
their season gets worse. They fire the coach at like
week six or something like that. I think there was
a coordinator.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Change as usual with Adams.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, and that got better, you know what I mean. So,
I mean there was things you keep watching. You're like, man,
I don't think he loves getting hit at this stage
of his career. But you know, I always talk about
quarterbacks like I'm the defense attorney or the prosecuting attorney,
and like, my favorite one ever and I'm dating myself
a little was the first five years of like Sam
Bradford and frankly I've done it with like Lawrence, Like
(06:48):
where if I'm his defense attorney, I'd be like I
got a new coach every year, I lead my teams,
leads the league in drops. You know. Bradford was like
he's always injured. He's on the worst organization in the league.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Like kind of like when Baker Mayfield came in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So there was plenty to like. But there was plenty
to like.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
But if I'm trying to put them in jail, it's like, yeah,
but you're the first pick of the draft, so I
got to bring these guys. Oh you know, you got
to elevate them. I don't care about that. To show
me the baby, you know. So back to Rogers, it
was like man, I see where he's coming from, of
and it's not they didn't give us all. But am
I really going to put my body in harm's way
(07:23):
for this team that's gone nowhere, that's fired their coach,
that has no chance? Am I going to really stand
in there four seconds in and take a hit to
the chin to really do nothing?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
You know, like Joey Bosa kid.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Right? So that stuff worried me. But it because, frankly,
every every quarterback I've really seen thirty eight and above,
maybe not Brady, but including Ben like getting hit a
lot less than when they were twenty five. I mean
absolutely I would too. Yeah, I mean we're all human beings,
you know, and that doesn't mean you can't play anymore
(07:57):
or you're worthless. But that part concerned me, and I'm like,
how well is he going to fit with Arthur Smith's system.
He doesn't seem super excited about throwing intermediate or over
the middle, and that's a big deal. But he's Aaron Freakin'
Rogers and he's going to bring a presence to this
team and he can still sling it. So I got
(08:17):
more and more excited. And then frankly, the day after
he signed we were down at mini campyp or OTA's
at that point, I forgive which one, right, So.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I think the two weeks of OTAs optional had been
in the books, and the mandatory mini camp was about the.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Stuff like five minutes before that, which was scripted as
could be. I mean, they figured this out months ago,
and I couldn't keep my eyes off them, like everyone there,
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
You and I were trying to do a show, like
kept getting distracted of like, sorry, what did you just
ask Aaron Rodgers walk around.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And he wasn't and he was just sitting there and
he was he was in sneakers right, and you could
tell he was so engaged.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And then talked to Mason. He'd talked to Will Howard
and talked to Arthur Smith, he had talked to the
time to everybody move.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It was never a wasted minute. And every time I've
been around him since, he is so calculated and wise
and smart and prepared and nothing is an accident and
there's never a wasted minute of the day.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You know, you and I were fascinated just having lunch
every day at training camp watching him in the cafeteria
because it's like he would walk into the cafeteria, always
with his wired headphones, by the way, look, which is
still funny because there's such a few people on the
planet side one of them wired headphones. Hey, ride the
horse that got you there. You don't have to turn
your back on the wired headphones at this point. And
(09:36):
we'd beat you. And I would be like sitting there
and he'd walk in, he'd stop, he'd look around, and
he'd like pinpoint, like sit with the DB's today, I'm
sit with the offensive lineman today. I'm gonna go sit
with the linebackers coaches.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Today and go sit in the same corner by himself.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And or he'd be somebody.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
But but it was every calculated.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It was calculated everything he did and really showed up
and and I'm you know, I'm like, Matt, you've done
this a long time. He fell for some of this
and not that it's an act. With Russell Wilson a
year ago, you know, I was all eyes on Russell Wilson,
like that's a potentially Hall of Fame quarterback. He's new
around here, wonder what everyone's eyes are on him. And
I was impressed, you know, with especially through camp, but
(10:18):
Rogers was more impressive and he was more impressive on
the field, you know, I mean, like, ooh, how about
that throw or him running over to Friarmouth and saying,
do this a little bit different? You know, two percent different.
You can to see how the communication was. So my
expectations rose and rose and rose. But the short answer
is he still exceeded him. You know, I was like
(10:39):
forty two year old with some questionable what's some concerns. Obviously,
you don't get a guy for free if there's no concerns,
you know, no doubt. And I'm like, history shows he's
probably gonna go backwards because a few of us get
better after age forty. But he's better this year than
he was last year. He's in a better situation, and
I think the ripple effect on the tea the teammates
(11:01):
is invaluable.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You know, I really like how you kind of started
all that, because my answer would be I would be
somewhere in between met expectations and exceeded expectations. But I
think I'm leaning more towards exceeded expectations. Now.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
The last two weeks of I don't overreact the last
two well, the last two weeks.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Have definitely helped that, but it's also Matt like.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Because two weeks ago I've been like exceeded, but now
I'm worried.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah right, and I you know, but and as much
as I'm with you on that, I also like the
games get more and more weighted as the schedule gets
deeper and deeper. It's the nineteen eighty four George orwell,
all animals are created equal, but some are more equal
than others. Like, yeah, all seventeen games are created equal,
but some are more equal than others.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I would say, boy Jimmy Johnson when he was the
head coach of the Cowboys. It's like, well, if Michael
Irvin Rammitt walks into the meeting late, I may frown
upon it, but if the fifty third guy walks in, I.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Go, I'm gonna wear right exactly right. I think the
way that he has felt like he's elevated his game
these last couple weeks, it felt like he's, like we've
talked about, been the high tide that has raised all ships.
With that that has me leaning towards more exceeding expectations
as of late. But I think what you just highlighted
at the beginning there was important I hadn't even really
(12:19):
considered it. There was so much concern about I mean, guys,
we don't have to kid ourselves. Aaron Rodgers this past
year had a documentary released on Netflix called Enigma right right,
not entitled Quarterback or Superstar Old Jacket Anima.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
McAfee all the time, and you know, right right right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think there was a lot of fair concern. He's
a unique cat. He is California as California can be.
I mean, I think there was, rightfully so a lot
of I don't even know concern, but just thought process of, yes,
he's going to elevate your quarterback position. He's going to
be better than any buddy that you've had since Ben,
(13:01):
since you know, prime pre elbow injury, Ben Roethlisberger.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
And those are things I said about him before I
even watched him play football. Yeah, like, I think this
will be their best quarterback since Ben's elbow.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
But the concern was, is he gonna go on McAfee
every week? Is he going to talk about vaccines in
ayahuasca and Anthony Fauci and you know all this other
controversial topics that he's dove into in the past. Is
you know, is is he going to be doing interviews
here and there, and the Steelers go on a two
or three game winning streak and there's some finger pointing
(13:33):
and things like that and things start to go south.
He hasn't done It's been the opposite, and he's gonna
choir boy.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
He went and visited the Pyramids instead of going to
OTAs with the Jets. I'm like, is he gonna host
Jeopardy during training camp or something weird that yeah, that
I want to deal with and then talk about it
on McAfee.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Is he gonna do some goofy during the bye week
that has nothing to do with football? All right?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
All right? And I don't know about you, but I
had a bunch of friends, not just like fans or
Twitter followers there like, man, I don't stand for anything
of this guy. I don't know if I can be
a Steeler fan because and my response was, do you
think you agree with every political take of every fifty
three guys in that locker room? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
They look right into the cameras. I say, there's a
lot of weirdos.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
In your favorite player. You did agree with it?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
All these guys have been the prom king, the prom king,
superstar since they were sixteen years old.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And they don't know you, and you don't know them,
you're not their friends.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Totally, right, he is by far the or he is
not even close to I guess I should say, the
only unique cat in that locker room inside those four walls. Right,
But he was also a little more unique than others.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
And he's been around longer and everybody knows it and
people care what you say. So he could be on
different media.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
He's on the big He was regularly on Pat McAfee,
the biggest sports show in the world. He was not
regularly but often enough on Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast
in the world.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
If Dylan Cook had unique takes on the world, No,
but he would care. Yeah, it's it's if your fungus
on your shower in the show, you're colorful, if you're
winning games, otherwise you're a slot. You know.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
He hasn't done any of that. He has gone radio
silence on everything. He has been just football, like I.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Like, I would love to know remember when he came here,
when they were both feeling each other out, Like I
wonder if the Rooney's Tomlin said we love you, we
want you to be your quarterback. But that's not really
our thing around here. And he's probably like, I love you,
but who am I gonna throw to? Or how am
I gonna cut? You know, I got questions for you,
a questions for me. We're both interviewing each other, meet
(15:38):
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, will give you the autonomy that
you wanted the line of scrimmage. Yes, but you're not
going on McAfee and Joe Rogan and all these different
shows every week and talking about all kinds of topics
outside of football.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Right right, right. We don't have the right to say
you can't, but we that's what we do around here.
You know I respect that.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, absolutely, I that to me as you kind of
lay it out, I think is key he has. You've
talked about this with the personality type that you want
from your quarterback. You want the guy who is the
coolest guy in the room, walks in, everybody loves him,
He brings the locker room together. Everybody wants to hang
out with that guy. They want to go to his
house for dinner type thing. And I think he's been
(16:17):
he he hasn't been the enigma, lightning rod that he
was at times. At the end of Green Bay and
in New York, and even at those times, his teammates
were always clear that he was a great None of
his teammates have ever said anything bad about him. It's
always been, it's always been, this guy is a great leader,
is a great teammate, He's awesome in the locker room.
But I man, he has he has to. He has
(16:38):
used a a Johnny Cash song, and he has walked
the line ever since he got here. Yes, I think
even even if you were the most optimistic person in
that regard, I don't think you could even imagine that
he has been this business oriented color between the lines.
I'm the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback and nothing else. And I
think that's gone a long way. I think Jalen Ram
(17:00):
has bought into that and talked about that.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I obviously he demanded respect the second he walked. Before
he walked in the door, everyone's waiting for him walking
the door. You know.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You and I joked about how that first day of
mini camp, like that's a lot more difficult to find
a parking spot today. It's usually difficult to find a
parking spot down there on the South Side, but it
was extra I mean, the the attention, the eyeballs, the
local and national media and magnet that he is was
undeniable amongst his teammates, amongst the fan base. Those first
(17:30):
few days of training camp, everyone wants to see Aaron
Rodgers man. You're seeing people in jets and packers Aaron
Rodgers jerseys that were showing up to Latrobe to get
a glimpse of this guy. I think it has gone
about as swimmingly, about as well as possible, and so
i'm I'm I'm leaning much more towards exceeded expectations. Yeah,
(17:50):
albeit with the caveat of there's still three very crucial
games remaining.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Of course, and you gotta finish the job. Hopefully there's
four and five remaining. That's where I was about to
go next. S love it, okay. I mean everyone on
the planet h Tolman the Zebeta losing record. But when's
you want the last playoff game? I mean I hear
that every day. Everyone in the planets hears it every day.
We all know these things, folks. You're not breaking news
out here now. I like Rogers chances of beating Alan
(18:18):
Lauren Stroud, Nicks, May whoever you're going to face in
the AFC wild Card round, assuming they get there, way
better than other options, any option they've could have had,
including Dart Shock Wilson. In fact, that's goal one, is
to win a playoff game and go from there. I
(18:38):
think he gives you the best chance we.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Got like a minute till we got a break. Yeah,
but maybe today or sometime soon we should have the
conversation of I think it's very clear of all the
teams in the AFC playoff picture right now, if you
could have one quarterback, it's Josh Allen. Oh, that's non controversial, right,
like in.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
The whole league.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And yes, I mean I think you could maybe make
a like Matt Stafford.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
He's awesome too, But if I have to win a
playoff game.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I won Allen, especially in the AFC. Yeah yeah, yeah,
but I think you could start to argue Aaron Rodgers's
number two in the AFC playoff picture right now. No Mahomes,
no Burrow Lamar, no one game for one game, yeah
yeah yeah, Like Herbert deserves a shout. Absolutely, There's some
other guys in there. Drake may deserves a shout.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But many of them I would put ahead of Rogers
on my quarterback tiers. Yes, yeah, but if I have
to win a game in Foxborough in January or whatever, you.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Know, maybe we'll do that exercise next week.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Ben They're done a thing.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Power rank your AFC quarterbacks and your NFC quarterbacks currently
in the playoff picture based off who you would want
to lead your team, because it's clearly Josh Allen one.
But then I think you could start to argue Aaron
Rodgers legimately.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, I know, if you get up against it. So
this is a bigger conversation and it's mostly negative. I
do have concerns with the style of offense the Steelers run,
which isn't all him compared to the rest of the
league to win a Super Bowl. But that's not if
you asked me, did he exceed expectations or not? I
mean they throw short of that They and I'm not
(20:04):
gonna saying him, they throw short of the sticks a lot.
They throw those backs a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
The run game's been very inconsistent.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, I'm talking more of the quarterback, the quarterback cent
you know what I mean, Like, and he doesn't if
he's not gonna run, you know, I mean, like, is
there a ceiling on this style of offense probably probably right, right, right,
but I think there's a pretty high floor too, right.
But Mahomes wasn't available either, you know, it wasn't like Hm,
should I think Rogers or Josh Allen? You know, yeah,
(20:34):
right right.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Let's get to a break here. Let's let's continue this
conversation a little bit and start to dive into Matt's
stats as we talk more about the Detroit Lions as
we roll along here, We've got plenty to get to today, Matt.
We've gotten a few tweets in the last week. Can
you guys break down the Steelers playoff outlooks and scenario?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, we need to do that too.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
We're gonna do that where we talked to Bob Labriola.
A whole bunch of fun stuff on deck for you
today as we're just getting started here on the drive,
Wells Shooler, Matt will since Steelers Nation Radio on the
Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Your tune's about drive on your twenty four to seven
home of the Black and Goal. Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Back on the drive here as we roll along on
a Thursday with plenty to get to. And it's been
a different week right with the one less shows in
the Monday night football. Next week's gonna be a little
different too. With Christmas. It's it always feels like from
Thanksgiving through the end of the season, like all bets
are off, you know, you know, you gotta be light
on your feet and ready to adjust and move.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Sometimes your game, especially because Steelers are always in until
the end gets flexed on you.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Or point and especially now the entire week eighteen is
kind of flex scheduling where no one knows when they're
going to be playing.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Saturday games, and everything disc gets weird.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
If you're like the Raiders and the Browns and the Cardinals,
you know when you're gonna be pl playing, it's gonna
be Sunday at one o'clock.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
And we covered them, we'd be pretty used to it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
But if you're anyone who's still in the hunt, could
be Saturday, could be Sunday, could be during the day,
could be in the evening.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
And this something the Steelers are very customed to. Like
people give them enough credit for that, Like that's the
Tomlin experience going through COVID, you know, like changing on
the flies rough and they don't always win, but I
mean it's at least they've done a lot of it
over the last several years.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
You know this better than me because you were in
those locker rooms and in those organizations and facilities at
a point in your career. But athletes and coaches, man,
are such creatures a habit.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
It's one of the things that shocked me most when
I really started to get It's unbelievable. I mean, every
coaches are maybe worse than athletes, and worse is the
wrong word, but I mean, you mess with their Tuesday
at two o'clock schedule, throws them off, and.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I've become OCD to the max.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I become that way my Christmas schedule, mind.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
The schedule for next week. Before we started recording.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I always joke I do have a spreadshe home that well,
I did. I set up, you know, for every week
because I know where I'm going to be at two
o'clock on Tuesday or all the time. But you got
to change it a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I have to do that same thing. Now we've got
a massive family calendar because we as I was joking
about yesterday, my schedule completely flipped with this new role
this year. Oh sure, Like I used to be in
here from like nine to three every day and that
was it and very static. And now it's kind of
all over the place. And I got a four year old,
the two and a half year old doing dance and
soccer and a million different things, and so have to
(23:28):
stay on it. And those guys are so routine oriented
in that for everybody, you know, that's the thing. Everyone's
got to deal with it, the coaches, but the coaches,
it's it's it's psychotic. Yes, it's like neurotic and psychotic
and very pedantic. But those guys have a method and
to the madness and it's worked for them for for
a lot of their careers to get to this point.
(23:49):
So you can't knock it, Matt. We kind of have
a method to our madness. But some things have been
thrown off this week. One thing that we, as Bill
Cower would say, we will not be the tiered from
here on Thursday, is to get into some of Matt's stats.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Line seems interesting, It really does. Some statistical stuff really
stands out there.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It really does. And the one that I wanted to
start with you this was something that you retweeted on
your Twitter account ex Twitter, as Dale would say at
Williamson NFL teams with the lowest pressure rates allowed this season. Yeah,
Steelers are number one. Yeah, best only team in the
NFL below thirty percent. They're at twenty six point five
(24:29):
percent of the time. I think there has to be
a direct correlation between that what we were just talking
about with Aaron Rodgers, how no quarterback wants to get hit,
but especially quarterbacks that are in their late thirties and
early forties. And I have to think again, there's a
correlation there. There's a parallel with what feels like them
doing a good job of keeping Aaron Rodgers upright and
(24:49):
him looking like he's still got plenty of gas in
the tank here midway through December.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
So I'm gonna burst that bubble a little bit, okay,
you know, because I'm gonna be as objective as humanly possible.
The ball out really quick, get the ballut really quick. Yeah,
So it's easier to not allow a pressure if I
only have to two point five verse three point five. Absolutely,
if I got to keep this guy off my quarterback,
it sure helps. So I'm a nerd. One thing I'm
(25:16):
going to do Williams when the season ends, especially because
it really applies to Steelers, is I'm going to build
a spreadsheet of all the pressure rates, percentage blitzed verse.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Verse time, we'll do we'll do a whole show on that.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And we'll look at who really are the best pass
protecting teams out there, you know, and just you'll let's
learn the picture a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
It's like the X axis and the Y axis.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
And what I often do is like, these are the
eight worst, these are the eight best, these are the
ones in the middle, and okay, but yeah they're really
good in this way. They're really good in that way.
And plus pressure rate. To me, like in Matt's stats,
I never put pressure rate. I just don't a thousand
percent trust it because if you and I are watching
a game, like, oh that was pressure, I don't know
if it was pressure. You know, there's a little bit
of subjectivity to.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It, or it's made to tackle. Yeah, there's a lot
of subjectivity at times, but.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's growing in popularity and acceptance. And even if you're
a percentage off, over the course of your who.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Cares, you could get pretty close to either the top.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
You know, the bit bottom or in the middle of whatever.
You know. So I think that's important, and I do
think a lot of our listeners rightfully show don't give
this pass protection nearly enough credit. I mean that probably
blows Pep away. You're number one. I don't think they're
the best pass protecting unit in the league, but I
think they're definitely in that top.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Top ten, top twelve.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know, I say eight because thirty two there's a order,
there's sixteen in the middle. Then there's no bodomate. But
I mean I even found this today. I mean, everyone
hates pass rush win rate? Why does everyone hate pass
rush ring weight? Because Miles Garrett was always better at
it than TJ Watt, So everyone would be like, what
has more sacks? I don't want to hear about this
stupid pass rush win rate stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Funny how that choos on the other foot, Now from
both sides, from the Steelers, all these Browns athletes are
talking about sack numbers.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Now, Miles Garrett, I don't want to hear about these
other guys.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
About TJ's e p A. Look at how many sacks, Miles.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
That's what I'm saying. Like TJ has a better pass
rush win rate, then he has sacks. He only has
six or seven or whatever, but he still wins a
high percentage of his reps.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
His e p A is still outstanding.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
It's third behind Williamson and Garrett Yes amongst all defensive
players cumulative e p A. And if you don't play though,
it goes down. Those are counting stats. So he was
actually two and he went to three this week because
he didn't do anything this week. And those guys are good.
But I found this too. I tweeted this out a
couple hours ago, this if we pass rush win rate
(27:49):
now that it still helps to get the ball out.
But somebody out there, and I don't know who is
judging who won this rep. You know, Pennay sool versus
t J. Watt who won that.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Rep fifty times over? And oh yeah, yea yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
And they're experts in their field or whatever. It doesn't
mean they're alway right. Yeah, they're close. Their fourth best
in pass rush rush win rate on defense and their
fourth best in pass rush blocking rate on offense.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It's a good place to be.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, pass rush makes the world go round. And even
if you get the ball all quick, you can't convince me.
And these stats back it up in a big way.
They're really good at pass rushing. They're really good at
pass blocking. That's good place to start, good place to start,
good place to start.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And man, there's been the investment in that area over
the last few years in the draft and free agency.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's the backbone the team is the pass rush and
has been every step of the way.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You and I joke about it a lot, but it's
kind of like a tongue in cheek. It's half joking,
half serious. That's you wear the black and gold. That's
your god given birthright.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, I mean, Gilden Porter, I mean we go back
and back back.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Is to lead is to lead the league or at
least be top two, three, four five in in sacks.
He influence QB hits and heavily influenced the game. And
how when your opponent, When the opponent offensive coordinator on
Wednesday is previewing the Steelers defense, that's the number one
thing on the grease board on thousand.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah. Yeah, And like in this game, one of the
stats I've been there in the general area is the
Lions defense basically faces the most deep balls in the league.
The Steelers face the fewest. Yes, it's because of pass rush,
and I know Hutchinson and they have a lot of sacks.
But it's easier to get a sack when people are
throwing deep and they're holding the ball along it.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
For four seconds, right and a half.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Where people are not holding the ball are going deep.
Because well, it's also was very successful early in the year,
the short short short, and the Steelers adjusted well. But
it's been like this for years that they face like
the lowest average ups of the target over the last
five years. I promise you in the league, you know,
if you if you accumulated, because it's a pass rush.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It's a heritage thing, man Like, it's part of you know.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
They invested in it, They invested in it, they invested
in it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
It is some thing that they have believed in for decades,
through different regimes, through same family, but different ownership. And
it's something like you know, Rob King and I a
couple of times a year do those Steelers alumni dinner shows,
you know, anniversary weekend shows, and that's something like we
(30:20):
talked to the Lavon Kirklands and the Jason Gilden's and
the Lamar Woodleys and the Joey Porter and it's something
that they all talk about and it's it's it's such
a unique, cool this is like shiny silver object, but
it's such a unique cool Steelers legacy lineage heritage thing
for me. That like we talked so much about the
heritage and the lineage at pass, rusher and center and
(30:42):
like all these different positions, not quarterback and running back
where the teams and wide.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Cleaver left tackle, you know where the.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Teams had a ton of success. It's like edge rushers
and centers. That's what we that's what we do here
in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
You probably encountered some of this. I got a ton
of it, But there was that year or two before
war Zach Frasier. I don't care what they do. They
got guess yeah, Like, what do you mean they're not
the best center in the league.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Benthler still brings it up.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
I can't sleep, I mean pretty often. Yeah, I can't
sleep at night because I see what my team does,
not have the best center in the league. You know,
Like it's been like that my whole life and everybody's
whole life. Like, what do you mean even average center
or below average center. We have to have the best
center in the league. What are you talking about? But
use the first pick in the draft on the center.
I don't care about positional value exactly. I'll wait till
the second round.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Wait on the second round. Give me Tyler learned to bomb,
and give him to me right now, exactly. And so yeah,
it is that that part kind of always makes me laugh. Okay,
let's take another break here, reset yet before we go
for it.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
This is not a knock on Broderck Jones. I heard
someone say this, and I believe it's true. Last week
was the best left tackle game of the year. Ooh,
and we're talking about protection.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
From your protection standpoint. I thought it was the No,
I mean, I thought it was all encompassing.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I thought it was the best sixty minutes of left
tackle game of the year.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And that's more of a test meant to Dylan Cook.
I assume what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
There, Jones is kind of all over the place. I mean,
we know that he's not a rock solid, most consistent
guy in the league. That game was the most consistent,
good play, icessive, and I was also rewatching it less
and less impressed with pride the job. Who you're going again?
Yeah you know, yeah, I mean he was a better
name than he was product. But it was a really
(32:22):
good game. By Cook.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That's encouraging. You're gonna need another one of those on
Sunday in Detroit for sure, without the yeah yeah, More
Matt stats as we close down the first hour of
the show. On the other side, it's the Drive on
Steelers Nation Radio on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Your tune's about Drive on your twenty four to seven
home of the Black and Goal. Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Rolling along here with more Matt's stats on the Drive. Matt,
this one not surprising, but I think I think it's
kind of a It can be glass half full or
glass half empty, depending on how you look at it.
Because the Steelers just did very well against a talented
(33:12):
Miami rushing attack without t J Watt and losing Nick
Herbing in the process. Right now, we're gonna wait and
see on Herbig's status. Will hopefully get the injury report
here in this show. But with Nick Herbig on the
field this season, Steelers all shock me because because the
proverbial thought is high Smith and t J you're better
(33:35):
rush defenders, and Herbig's a specialist pass rusher, six man
off the bo He's like bringing your power hitter in,
you know, out of the dugout or your your sharpshooter
off the bench, exactly right, Mariano Rivera right out of
the bullpen with herbig on the field. This season, Steelers
allow four yards per carry to the opposition running back
(33:57):
when he's off the field four point nine yards, nearly
an extra yard per carry, Like, speaks a lot to
his value this year.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, and now I always like to peel these back, like, Okay,
what are we missing other than just that sentence? Sure,
you know, like the Cam Hayward stuff last year was
super alarming, but boy it added up. You know, it's
like he's that good because his his splits were even starker.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
But simmon, it's like second best run defense in the
league when he was out there, second worst when he
was on the sideline. It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And then I started thinking, I'm like, well, is her
big out there? Situationally more, is he out there? And
the answer is yes, you know, is he out there
in third and nine and not third and one? Yes,
But that would actually make it the opposite because it's
a lot easier to get a six or seven yard
run on third and nine than it is on the
(34:47):
goal line. Sure, you can only get one yard to
gain or whatever, so that would actually work in his favor.
And I'm like, well, is he just not played enough?
I'm like, well, I mean high Smith has missed time.
He's played entire your games. It's not I mean he's
he's been out there quite a bit. Now. I'm not
saying that he's their best run defender. I still think
(35:09):
Watt is clearly that on the edge, and I think
high Smith's better than Herbig. They're two of the best
edge steelers in the league. But I think that stat's
pretty telling. I mean, he's he's out there in a
lot of different situations. The eyeball test says it. And frankly,
when these beat reporters interview the defensive coaching staff, they've
been saying it all year long. We think Nixon much
(35:31):
improved run defender, and he is.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
And I wonder if there's some he's a great player,
by the way, is I wonder if there's some lack
of perception meeting reality with opposition offensive coordinators, Like if
they look at it and they say it's it's almost
working against them where they're saying, when Herbig's on the field,
we have to run his direction. Yeah, maybe because they
(35:54):
haven't caught up with how close to the team right
in that regard, Like, I bet there's some of that.
I would think that there would have to be for it.
I mean again, to be nearly a yard difference, like
that's that's a lot for him.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
It's not one hundred snaps, it's quite a few. I mean,
it's a high percentage of being out there for an
entire season or deep into December.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yes, correct, Another thing that I wanted to discuss with
you here. We touched on this a little bit yesterday
with Chris Hallick. But eleven personnel usage and how that
relates to the Lions defense, that's.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
What I'm new to a lot the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Well, then let's get into it. Steelers using eleven personnel
just thirty five percent of their snaps. Now, that's thirty
first in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
But that's still I loved how Chris said this. Though
it's still more than.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Still a lot, it's still a third of your snaps,
a little more than a third of your season. I
often use a fullback exactly right, happening six times a game.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Right, We've never practiced it. It's still the most prominent
form of personnel grouping in the league, and they use
it a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
And what's crazy about it is when they are in
eleven personnel, they averaged six point four yards per play.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
That blew me away.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's best in the league.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
In the league.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So Detroit really likes to operate with four defensive backs
on the field at a time, right, which would make
you think that you could take advantage of some eleven personnel?
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Is this so many secondary injuries on top of that,
they want to play their four to three And it's
a great point branches out right, Arnold the first round corner,
he's out. They're pulling like Arthur Malett's and guys like
that off the street too.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So so with DK playing the way that he has
been feeling, fling an mvs feeling like they're settling in. Yes,
Is is this a week that we could really see
the Steelers taking Is that kind of the match up?
Is that the ace up the sleeves of the Steelers
potentially Sunday at Ford Field.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I think it's a game specific game planning thing that
you lean more into this week than ever. I mean,
what were you said they were thirty eight percent or something.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Like thirty five point one maybe yes.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
The week you're fifty five, you know what I mean,
I mean even forty five, right, I was shocked how
good they are.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Top five in yards per play out of eleven personal
national football.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
And again that's not a small sample side. It's still
almost forty percent of your snaps for entire more.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Than more than a third of your snaps for the year.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And we know they don't have the three best receivers
in the league that have trot out there. In fact,
it's been a revolving door of guys not named Metcalf.
And maybe it's you know, we didn't prepare as much
for eleven against I don't know. There's probably some underlying things,
but they're good at it when they are in eleven
and the Lions don't want you in eleven. And a
huge thing I'm gonna say the next two days in
(38:30):
the Drive is the Lions are the most explosive offensive
team in the league and they allow the most explosives
on defense now and it's been getting worse lately. So
you're not going to be in a thirteen to nine
sorry rockfight in Detroit on Sunday. This is going to
be in there a race to thirty five.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
That's how all their games are.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
That's how all their games are.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
They lose a lot of games where they score thirty
one points.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's where they're at as an organization
now because they are really beat up on defense playing
on a fast surface. Whether it's not gonna be an issue,
I think you got to embrace throwing the football more,
throwing the ball down the field more out of eleven.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I also wondered too, if there can be some what
was the the Muhammad Ali the term that he was at,
like the bait and switch or whatever Muhammad Ali used
to Robodo. That's it. The secrets out on how much
the Steelers use Kenneth gain Well in the past game
on for running backs that have at least one hundred
routes run this year, he leads all in terms of
(39:31):
targets over twenty eight percent of the time. Yeah, so
is this maybe a Detroit thinks we're going to throw
the ball to Kenny g and Jalen Warren a bunch
out of the backfield? History shows you well, and let's
get ready to I'm not saying throw at thirty forty
fifty yards downfield every single drive but let's hit some
more of those more and then let's hit some more
of those intermediate routes, which I think we've started to
see a little bit over the last two weeks as well.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I think that's the I've never gained plan for an
NFL opponent, but I think that's something you would have
to strongly consider all week. Game planning for this team.
Is they're they're begging you to do this. It's not
what we do often, but we do it better than
most people think. Maybe we lean into it, especially with
the feeling and MVS giving you more stability there. I mean,
(40:14):
I think they're just more comfortable with the wide receiver room.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I think Aaron Rodgers is more comfortable and Wilson.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Maybe it's I'm not putting those guys out there and
making Darnell and plays may snaps or Friar mooth, but
these guys, Okay, I'm leaning into it. It's going well.
I do Wednesday show with Tom Offerman and Tim Bens,
and Tom had a good point. He's like, this is
nice that we talk about theling and MVS is stabilizing
forces and running the right routes, and professionals think I
(40:42):
student started catching some balls. Like that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, yeah, I mean what feeling I think has three
receptions in two games.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
I think they have like five targets with touchdown.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
But that was his only reception of the game.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Right, Like, now they're gonna have to start catching three
four balls a game too. You can't just be running
around out there getting cardio.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
One thing that I was talking with Tom about was
he was like, do you think Kenneth Gainwell is like
do you just kind of give him the reins is
RB one right now.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Let's not forget Warren was questionable with an illness for
the last.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Year that too.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, But my answer was, listen, if you want to
get where you want to go, if you want to
win this division, like you said, not just play three
or four more games, but hopefully four or five ye
more games, Jalen Warren is gonna have to be a
massive part of that equation. You you knock on game, well,
no it's not, and it's been it's been outstanding what
Gainwell has been able to do. But if you're going
(41:34):
to win the division and then win a home playoff game,
and let us all really start dreaming and believing and
go to places that we haven't been in eight years.
Like everyone like that.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
That's the goal.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
If we were listing key players on offense for that
to happen, Aaron Rodgers won, duh. DK Metcalf two duh.
But then it's probably Jalen Warren three.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Just body of work, reliabilities.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
So I would I want to keep Kenneth Gainwell involved,
but I want Jay. I need Jalen Warre to be
a big part of that equation as well.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, I like, like sixty forty sixty five to thirty five,
where I thought game ball was a ten percent. Now
the fact that he's a thirty.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
To forty percent testament to him.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yeah, he's better than I thought.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Huge testament to him.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I don't want him as a sixty percenter. I'm one
game's different. I mean one game in Dublin, great.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Fine, one game when Jalen has the flu fine, right,
right right? But yeah, that to me is if you
can keep Kenny g doing the things that he's doing,
but get Jalen Warren back to form, that's when you
really start to that's when you.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Really start maybe take it up a notch.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, I get talking about the ceiling of the offense.
That would raise, that would raise the ceiling of the offense. Matt.
The Steelers have only lost one hundred and sixty five
yards on offense from sacks. That's eighth fewest in the
National Football League. Just to kind of get back to
now again, part of that's because they're getting rid of
the ball quickly, right, But that's still that's still an
that's still an impressive number.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
This is something I've just become attuned to in the
last month of my career, is not all sacks are
created equal. Like if you watch Tua, he's running backwards
and it's an eighteen yard sack. That's a heck of
a lot different than Rogers or Brady. You lose five,
here comes a free blitzer. I'm dead. I'm just gonna
go down, not take the hit three yards behind the
line of scrimmage. Okay, it went from second to seven
(43:19):
to third and ten. I can live to fight another day.
It's not third and a million, you know, right, So
that's obviously a culmination of you're not taking a lot,
but they don't. Rogers doesn't take bad sacks. Everybody takes sacks,
but he doesn't take bad sacks. Yes, and I think
that's really important.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And we've talked about sacks are as much of a
quarterback stat, yes, as they are an offensive line stat,
and I think in the majority that's been a huge
benefit for them. There's a couple of times that I
think you could kind of pinpoint. I joked about that
huge hit that he took from Joey Bosa earlier, like
that was one of those felt like he held it
a little bit too long, trying to make.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
A games there where I thought he was off off
his radar was a little off in that department, right.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
The Wi Fi wasn't as strong a right to be,
But that signal has gotten back on track these last
two weeks.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Direct TV has snow all over it and right satellite.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
When it rained, I still direct TV. When it rains,
the TV goes out. When it snows, the TV goes out.
When the dog sneezes, the direct TV goes out. I
actually like that though, because direct TV you can like
log in from anywhere and watch, And yeah, it's kind
of nice in that I don't have direct TV, but
I have a buddy with direct TV who I have
his log in on my cell phone for for such
(44:31):
case emergencies. That was my what I thought was going
to be my go to plan to watch football. In
double word, nothing works. Direct TV blocked. I mean I
knew like the ESPN apps and the Fox Sports apps
would be blocked, and I figured direct TV that'll work.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Nope, not at all.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Nothing. Everything I tried was the best laid plans of
mice and men, and how maybe the only last thing
and the food poisoning I got Friday morning was that
was that was only like a two or three hour
snaff foo. Fortunately it didn't linger as long as it
could have, so I was fortun it in that regard.
Hour in the books another hour ago. Let's tee up
our number two with Bob Labriola on the other side,
(45:06):
West Scheeler, Matt Williamson. It is the Drive on Steelers
Nation Radio on the Steelers Audio Network.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.