June 30, 2025 • 46 mins
The Steelers made a huge move today to say the least! Matt and Dale react and give their takes on the acquisition of Jalen Ramsey and Jonnu Smith as Minkah Fitzpatrick is being sent back to Miami.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
The least.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson on
your twenty four to seven home of the Black and
GOLDNR Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
And welcome to the Drive. I am Dale Lolly, he
is the Matt Williamson. And well it was a nice
quiet weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, the weekend was quiet. Yeah, it's the dead period.
There's nothing going on in the league. This morning not
so much.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, if you live on the West Coast, you woke
up to some news.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Some news, to say the least.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
The Steelers sending safety mink Of Fitzpatrick and a twenty
twenty seven fifth round draft pick.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Reportedly this yeh official yet to.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The Miami Dolphins for cornerback Jalen Ramsey and Johnny's tight
end and a twenty twenty seventh seventh round draft pick.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We have to spend next to no time talking about
the draft picks. I mean these are twenty twenty seven
pick swap. Okay, Miami made a little spare change there.
It's as close to a player for two player deal
as you'll see. I mean, it's a flat out player
swap and Steelers aside, Like when I did this on
my national podcast, I opened by saying one of these teams.
(01:28):
These teams are just in way different positions, you know,
like if you don't, we'll dig into the Steeler specifics.
Probably some Miami specifics too. But one team is very
cash strapped and pushed all their chips in to try
to win the whole thing and didn't, and now their
whole staff is very much on the hot seat. Obviously,
I'm talking about Miami. And they told Jalen Ramsey, you
(01:48):
don't even have to come to mini camp. We're not
gonna find you. You have an excused absence. They basically
told Johnny Smith, we we got a lot out of
eighty eight catches last year, got a lot out of
him last year, but we don't have the money to
extend you, and we're gonna They're not stressing a third
or fourth pass catcher in that offense. So those two
leaving town doesn't surprise me at all. Minca leaving surprised me. Yeah,
(02:13):
I mean I didn't see that coming.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
No, nor did I. And you know, at first glance,
I thought, boy, that's that opens up some holes. And
I started thinking about it. I'm like, Ramsey can play
some free safety.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Ramsey can do. Let's start there.
What are they getting in Ramsey? So first off, just
I don't forget this. He went to Florida State as
a safety, you know, and became this big, huge He's
a rare physical specimen that goes in the top five
of any draft class. And early in his career he
(02:51):
was basically the revis eraser, top corner in the league
type guy. The Rams a very forward thinking and they
were kind of at the forefront of the Fangio cover
four and all the versatility stuff, which I'm gonna get
to I think is a huge portion of this trade
started playing him in a wide variety of manners. Big
(03:13):
slot like, He's gonna play a ton of slot here,
some nickel linebacker, some deep safety, some strong safety, outside corner.
He is now a defensive back, you know. I mean,
you can call him a corner if you want, but
he can line up on the outside and play man
against T Higgins. I mean maybe not the degree could
five years ago, but he is a defensive back that's
(03:33):
gonna do tons of stuff and whether it's here or wherever,
he's playing in two or three years, much like Charles Woodson,
Rod Woodson, I think he'll eventually just be a big,
good safety.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You know, it's a transition in college is very much
like that of Rod Woodson.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Absolutely, Woodson at Purdue was a safety.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yes, right, right guys, right, they're like too big for
Cornery what people thought originally like, No, he can do it.
He can do it and better than anybody.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So I think that transition back could be a welcome
thing for him.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yes, absolutely. Now I don't think he's a one for
one Menca replacement this year, deep middle guy. I think
he can do it. I know Thornhill can do it.
They obviously just resigned Elliott frankly one of my questions,
and I don't even care at this point. They'll figure
it out. It's a great problem to have. When two
corners are on the field, who will be I don't know.
(04:30):
But when three corners on the field, I know exactly
who is going to be, and it won't be any bishop.
This is a direct replacement. Like just one way of
looking at it is Ramsey upgrades over Bishop, Thornhill downgrades
over Minca. But I think those gaps are bigger than.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Oh Ramsey versus Bishop is night day.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I mean pro bowler versus borderline roster playing free time
right right right.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Since twenty seventeen, there have been three defensive or two
defensive backs who've been named All Pro three times. Okay,
one is Jalen Ramsey, the other one is making Fitspatchery.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Not surprising. Okay, that makes some sense. So where I'm
going with this to me is, I think the defense
is gonna look a lot different. I think you're gonna
see way less single high middle of the field closed.
They were at the absolute top of the league in
Cover three, Cover one. I think they're gonna play a
(05:29):
lot more fangio stuff, a lot more two high looks,
Cover four, more blitzing, more man throw a lot more
at a lot less predictability. Yeah, I mean it was
very much an execution based defense pretty much know who's Russian,
who is in by NFL standards. I mean, of course
they threw wrinkles in. It wasn't they just line up
and run the same defense every time. But I think
(05:52):
they're gonna do a lot more schematically. Now, this just
screams that on defense.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And I think you know, and you
look at the one for one trade to your point, Yeah,
you're downgrading at safety. But what's the least important position
perhaps on a defense, and the easiest to find and
(06:17):
easiest to find. Yeah, it's probably safety.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's very much an Omar Khn money situation to me too,
Like I don't think Omar became a GM and be like, man,
I wish we weren't paying safety this much money. But
I think a money guy does not want his money
going there. He wants to go into what he wants
to go into. D Lineman, he wants to go into
do it all Joey Porter's next contract. Because you can
get safeties. I mean, I'm not applying to even do this,
(06:42):
but justin Simmons and blackmen are on the free agent
market now, there's always a safety out right there. Or
you can use a day two pick and get a
really good starter, you know, like those that positions the
easiest to find.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I still like Sebastian Castro a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah that's a good point too, you know, like maybe
it's a reindorsement for him too, like maybe you're gonna
be in the mix, you know, so, Okay, you're not
three deep at safety with studs, but it wouldn't be
hard to find another. Whether it's before the opening day
or next offseason. If need be Elliott, you love Thornhill's
(07:17):
a starter that was kind of stuck as your third guy.
And if thorn Hill's your worst quote defensive player that's
gonna play a lot of snaps, I'll take it. Yeah,
you know what I mean, think about it. It discuss
kind of dawned on me, like who are probably the
fifteen most hiatt projected defensive snap players on the team.
(07:38):
You know, the d lineman will rotate, so there's a
lot of them. Are up front, two or three linebackers,
definitely these three corners. Thornhill's one of them. But if
he's number fifteen of the fifteen, you're in really good shape, right,
You're in really good shape. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I mean, it just gives him so much more versatility,
so much more versatility. And again to seem make if
Fitzpatrick go right, I don't think he did any wrong.
But you know, at the same time, you know you
had to give up something that's.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Why I want and some had be money too.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
When we talked about, yeah, the potential for signing or
trading for Ramsey, I should say that was the flying
the ointment for me when you brought it up and right,
they can't afford.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
It, right because they still probably wanted to add a receiver,
but we didn't know John Smith to be coming back to. Yeah,
he's more receiver than tight end, but that's just.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
What he'd eaten up the entirety of what they had
left in cap space, and they probably would have had
to do some maneuvering.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, now with.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
The trade to make a Fitzpatrick, you cleared cap space.
You took on a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
But there's a little bit of dead money involved, but
not much much, and most teams have way more than
what stealers haven't done. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Anyway, and Ramsey's actually under contract through twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, it's pretty nice, and I assume they plan on
keeping him for that duration or moving him to safety
or whatever, but just figuring it out. And they add
another year to John new from understand.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And according to spot track, with with Ramsey, the cost
isn't prohibitive until twenty twenty eight, Okay, when he's thirty four.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I know he's making a big buck this year, but
after that, I don't think it's that bad.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
According to spot Track, the base salary and they're estimating
this now is two point seventy five.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
For this year.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oh really, they're just saying.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
His campit after the adjustments is seven point four million.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Oh wow. Okay, now I thought it was much worse
than that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I don't know that that's true.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the money stuff is
still out there, folks.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
We don't we'll find out once all the drink details, right.
But next year, then the base salary is ten million.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I'll do that all day long. He has a even
if him and Mak are equal players, you're saving there.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, he has a game by game roster bonus of
seven hundred and sixty five thousand dollars. But even at that,
that makes the cap hit eighteen.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Point three Okay, it's not crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And then twenty point five in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Seven, okay, which again, percentage of cap in twenty twenty
seven is probably very low.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Next to nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I mean, even if he's only a safety at that
point and not the verse little guy that he is now,
I mean, that still probably is a good buck and
you could get out of it if it's a disaster. Yeah.
So the money stuff is what I'm not I'm unclear
of because it's happened recently and that has all gone through.
But the scheme stuff to me screams, well, let me
go on it a little tangent like since they were eliminated,
(10:40):
I've been really on two bandwagons of these are things
that have to get better. And on offense, I need
four point one yards per carry to get up to
four three four four. I'm not asking you to be
top of the league. It only be five to five
or whatever. And on defense, you need to get back
to more or less leading the league in sacks. You know.
(11:00):
Pro Football Focus agreed with us. We think they have
the best defensive front in the league, you know. And
it's not the front's issue that you're not leading the
league in sacks. They were middle of the road in sacks,
but they were top of the league in force fumbles,
they were top of the league in batted passes the
line of scrimmage, their top of league in takeaways, and
if you could add the sacks to it, I think
(11:23):
it's a back seven issue why you don't why you're
not the top of the league of sacks, not a front.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Issue, a cornerback issue.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Mostly corner. I mean, I think you were scheme strangled
a little bit and didn't have a ton of versatility.
You weren't real anxious to blitz. And when teams like
Mahomes and frankly Rogers started getting the ball out of their
hands insanely quick, when you were playing the top quarterbacks,
you were kind of screwed a little bit. Yeah, and
(11:50):
WATCHWCE and doubles. So I think they're gonna blitz a
lot more. I think they're gonna throw so much at
you more. Schematically, some of the lesser quarterbacks, not the
Rogers Homes that are mentally up here, are going to
be double clutching and taking hits. And even like the
Burroughs of the world. You maybe your blitz and he
beats you over the top, but he's gonna be really
(12:12):
sore on Monday, or maybe he doesn't finish on Sunday.
I mean, that's my goal is this offense is not
equipped to play the Bengals thirty five thirty eight week
after a week. But if it's I had said, say,
the best defense in the league, and they make you
hurt with depth and aggression and now scheme on top
(12:33):
of that, sign me up, man.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, I think you know the other thing. And these
people need to be reminded about one of the things
that I've heard we're seeing consistently on social media and
in comments and things of that nature. Well, the Steelers
didn't make any changes. They didn't change this or that
on the coaching staff. No, they changed the player.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
They changed the players in order they know the change
needs to happen. Yeah, it doesn't mean if to fire
the whole world. I mean we joked on the way
in boring old Steelers never make any moves. They don't
ever change set in stone. This is the seventies. I've
even had buddies being like, this team still thinks that
you win with defense in this league. I'm like, they
got better on offense too, and they might not be
(13:17):
done on offense. And they have a brand new quarterback.
Like they're not content just winning nine games and losing
in the first round, and this still sets them up
for the big term, big picture plan of adding a quarterback.
Or you didn't even lose any of your draft picks
next year. No, he didn't lose anything. You know you
got you were if you if you're the least biggest
(13:39):
fan of this trade, the Steelers are a better football
team than they were twenty four hours. I mean they
had two guys, you know, right, we added two quality players,
right for one quality player. Jona Swith got eighty eight
passes last year. It was like height in five in fantasy.
I mean, he's not going to do that here. But
he's a good player.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Oh but he catches fifty.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh I do too.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, you know so I think that's uh.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
We'll do the whole segment on him. I'm sure, but.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Right, it's it's definitely an upgrade.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You're better now than you were. Yeah, I mean it
costs you some money, cost.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You some money.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeahs you have it. A tiny bit of draft capital,
a tiny bit. It's tiny, but that's it. That's it, right,
you got you move the chairs around a little bit.
On defense, we want to be more versatile. People have
picked on our slot for three years in a row
or whatever. We can't have that anymore, especially when the
ball is going to come out fast. I would rather
be a little bit weak thirty yards downfield than three
(14:33):
yards downfield. If I have the league's best pass rush, absolutely,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, I can't have them quick hitting me to death,
you know. I need quality players near the line of screamage.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Let's get through a break. When we come back, we'll
talk about the Johnny Smith option of this trade. He
is Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lullie. You're listening to
the Drive. You're on the Steelers Audio Network. Man, I'll
be back with more right after this.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
on your twenty four to seven home of the Black
and Golds in Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And we are back. I'm Dale Lolly. He is the
Matt Williamson and we talked about the acquisition of Jalen Ramsey.
Let's talk now about Johnny Smith. Yeah, and what he
brings to the Steelers offense.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
A lot of people think he's just like a throw in,
like not a big deal. No, this is a big
time player.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Six three, two hundred and forty eight pounds. Now, that's
what he was when he's coming out of college.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I would bet he's lessons opposed to more just the way. Yeah,
I mean he can put her on.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
He ran a four to six two with the combine. Okay,
he had a vertical of thirty eight inches surprise me,
ten foot seven inch broad jump.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
He's a super athlete. He's really athletic, yes, and hasn't
lost any of it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
By the way, folks, the athleticism is similar to a
let's say he was a six foot three, two and
twenty pound wide receiver.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right right, they're good, Well, all right, let's get it
out of the way. Oh man, they got three tight ends.
How they're gonna use a least tight ends? He's a
big slot. Yeah. He is not going to line up
like Darnell Washington and try to block Miles Garrett. That
is not what he's gonna do.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
He is good, however, in zone blocking schemes, Yes, because
of that athleticism.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
He gets latterly and can really really move. And he's
not a wooss. I mean, he'll stick his face in there.
He's just not super powerful. I mean, he's not the
biggest guy. He's receiving typers. He'll seal the ds for you, absolutely,
and he'll blow defensive backs apart, you know. I mean,
so he has value in that. Now. The Smiths obviously
like each other. John new and Arthur I mean he
(16:53):
followed Arthur Smith from Tennessee to Atlanta, spent two years
together in Tennessee. Yeah, okay, they drafted him one year
in Atlanta and then now he's together with him again
in Pittsburgh. Yeah, and fantasy people will remember, man, why
is this John Neu Smith guy catching all these balls
instead of Kyle Pitts. Well, he might be better when you
look at.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It, but yeah, I mean if you look at it,
and we got eighty eight passes last year. That year
in Atlanta, Smith caught fifty passes for five hundred and
eighty two yards.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
In a run heavy team in three touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Okay, Pitts caught fifty three passes for six hundred and
sixty seven yards and three touchdowns. So they got one
hundred and three catches at the tight end position for
over eleven hundred yards. It's not too tight, almost twelve
hundred yards.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, had two tight ends right right, right right? What
do you think would have happened to? Yeah, like I've
gotten a million tweets. Oh, they guess they're trading Friarmouth though, No,
I don't think so. Man. They led the league in
thirteen personnel last year, and.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
They were twelve and twelve person and they were.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Right in at the thought of league in twelve yeah,
because sometimes they were in thirteen too much to be
a thought of league in twelve. So they're going to
live in multiple tight end packages, just like the corner situation.
When there's two out there, I don't know which two
it'll be. It'll probably rotate, it'll probably be situational. I
don't think this is a knock on Washington at all.
Washington's almost a totally different beat on Johnny Smith. Like
(18:16):
if they walked in the room, you wouldn't think they
played in the same position. But they do obviously want
versatility at that tight end position. Every tight end move
they've made lately is for somebody kind of different than
what they had, you know. I mean it's just different mismatches.
And he's a mismatch. He can really run, can really
stretch the seam. He'll align in the backfield a time,
(18:37):
the catch really good after the catch, right, So he's
a weapon. I mean, he's a big slot that couldn't
be any different as a big slot than Austin or Wilson.
It's just a different type of pass catcher.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
So here are the teams and the people have asked, wow,
does this you know make them better? Here are the
teams the year's twelve personnel the most last.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Year, but the Ravens had to be at the top.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Top five. Yeah, the Raiders were actually number one.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
They fowers right right, right, but that was their entire offense, right.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
The next four teams were the Chiefs, sure, the Lions,
the Texans, and the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Okay, some of the best teams and the best teams
in the league, right right, Like the Ravens aren't trying
to trade Andrews. They win Andrews and likely you know,
I mean, like, give me a bunch of these days.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It makes you tough to play against.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Right. That's where I was going to go with this too,
is it's such a week to week league. The teams
that play with a real fullback that's hard to prepare
for in seven days, which is really four days. And
teams that play thirteen personnel that's hard to prepare against.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Some teams they don't even have three tight ends on
the roster.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Right, or the third guys your special team or doesn't dress.
You know, Steel are gonna keep four and use them all,
you know, I mean, I'm not sure Hayward's gonna see
the field a ton on offense, now, but you know
what he is again, it's just a different way of playing.
When Hernandez and Gronk became a thing, Well, how do
we play defend against this? You know, Stefanski Say what
(20:07):
you want about him, but he's won two Coaches of
the Year. His first one was when they were playing
a ton of thirteen personnel and I criticized their fan
and pick. But to get back to those type of things,
you know, he's a good offensive mind of how can
I attack teams differently than just eleven? Like I have
great respect for the Bengals offense, but they're not creative.
They come out in eleven and Burrow just you know,
(20:28):
manipulates it all day long. Yeah, we got better checkers
than you do. And you know, and this is just
a way of scheming things up, which Rogers will do
pre snap as well as anyone in the league.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Right now, he's gonna say he's going to identify the
mismatch pre snap over and over, over and over and
over take advantage of it. The other thing this does
everybody who's been screaming for the Steelers to throw over
the middle more.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oh, it's coming, it's coming. I mean, read the writing
on the wall, right, I mean it's coming, There's no
doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You've got you've got talented tight ends. You're gonna throw
over the middle.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, And to your point, run after catch is huge.
I mean that was when the Titans offense was at
its best. Over the middle, shots off and off, play action,
run after the catch, shrug off a smaller defender. And
John new Smith's not AJ Brown. He's not gonna take
it eighty, although he has recently, but he's gonna be
hard to get on the ground as his Friar Mooth,
(21:25):
as his Washington, as his metcalf On in breakers, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I'm aligning Johnny Smith in the slot next to DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I mean that size.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Let Johnny Smith clear out the underneath and here comes it,
Here comes DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, now you got a clear throw, absolutely clear lane.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I mean you're just big bodies picking for each other
on a on a basketball court in Washington and Friar Mouth.
I mean, that's serious beef. Another complaint I've had about
the Steelers red zone offense, Well, you're at you got
big red zone weapons now, I mean their red zone
offense was at the bottom of the league last year.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, Johnny Smith has two years in his career, two
different seasons where he's got eight touchdown passes.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Really including last year. Okay, I mean he caught eighty
eight balls and eight touchdowns last year as the number
three receiver in Miami. You know, he's not a throw
in at all. He's going to be very productive here.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, I'm sure Rogers is going to look at this
and anytime he sees a linebacker on Friarmuth or.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Or Smith or Smith, yeah look out or Warren or yeah. Yeah. Really,
I mean I'm sitting here thinking the variety. It's not
just Metcalf now and then the Pips, you know, I mean,
you got a lot of different varieties. And to your point,
coverage linebackers are a real shortage in the NFL right now.
There's not many warners out there.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And if they are, if you're putting coverage linebackers on
the field, guess what, right, you're not gonna be as
good as against against a run.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And thirteen personnel. Whether Friarmuth and Smith are Mark Bavarro
or Mark Brunner blockers, doesn't matter. They're they're blocking safeties
and corners at that point if you're gonna play a nickel.
You know. So both these acquisitions, the two players they added,
do a lot of different things, I mean to me,
to your point last segment, Okay, they didn't make a
(23:16):
lot of coaching changes, but they know scheme things needed
to change, so you get players that can do more things.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, you know, right, you're building this offense into what
Arthur Smith his vision is and.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
A lot of good movement blockers. To your point too,
you know.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, so I expect it to look much different.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I expect to look much different. And the guy pulling
the trigger is always going to have you in the
right play and always going to go with the right
player to football. He may not throw it like the MVP.
He might not move like the best quarterback in the
league anymore is a pretty damn good, but he's in
a beat, a pre snap a lot, a lot a lot.
I would still be in the market for a Gabe
Davis too, I mean I think something like that could
(23:56):
still happen, you know, just an outside bigger, somebody bigger
than and Wilson. They may not be done on offense.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah. The other thing this does you know when you
when you look at it. They just one of the
things that Rogers is really good at is as quick.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Oh, the quick game is a quick game. Yeah, it's
still great.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
And the and the snapping the ball when the defense
is making changes.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Well, if you've got guys like John U. Smith Pat
Fryermouth on the field, you don't need to change based
on down in distance.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
No, right, right, right, But the defense might, the defense might,
and Rogers is gonna catch him. Rogers gonna catch him.
He's the best ever at that. And this offense because
it's gonna be unorthodox by NFL standards. I'm sure there's
gonna be defenses. Should we be a nickel now or.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Should we be in you know, it's gonna be confusion.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, and I think that you're gonna see a wider
variety of offensive packages, even more thirteen personnel. Washington's already
hard to play against, yeah, because he looks like Jones
and you can still catch passes. He's not just like
what's his face? The lead RICARDA Ricard is really an
(25:10):
offensive lineman. He's a guard that runs around where Washington's attack,
catch the ball and make a concerted effort for him
to get the ball in.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
One of the things that Rogers said in mini camp
that really stuck out to me was it Washington reminds
him of Marcedes.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Lewis, who's still in the league at three years old
and was a pass catching the first round pick.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
He was a threat.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
He was a threat who's a massive. People might not
take that as a compliment. That's a compliment. Marcedes Lewis
was like the biggest tight end the league, first round pick,
smartest could be unorthodox, and that he is such a
great blocker but can do more than enough in the
passing game to still be out there as one year
five eligible. You know, if he has anything close to
(25:56):
Marsides Lewis, like career, sign me up for.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
That back of an under Like So, let's say you
have you have Connor Hayward. You're in twelve personnel. Hayward's
on the field. The first player you line them up
as a fullback, right, the next play you detach him.
So now you're technically in thirteen. Right, the defense has
(26:22):
to make a switch.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Absolutely, It's just.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
It's going to be an undrum.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, and I'm not even sure how much Hayward will
see the field with those guys ahead of him. But
Smith creates that himself, right. I mean, the Niners were
very much a three wide team, you know, throw it
all over the place, quick hitters or not. Niners, Dolphins,
I'm sorry who came from the Niners? And Smith wasn't
(26:49):
lining up in line and blocking people. He was their
third receiver, Yeah, I mean he was.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
They didn't have a third receiver.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
They have a third receiver. And it became yeah two, yeah,
they had two and and really for a lot of
the season and one right exactly. So Smith and himself
is one of those guys that even if you're in
I don't know, it's him and Washington, Friar Moose on
the sideline whatever, they're all going to rotate to count
(27:15):
that as twelve. And if you play your bass or
you're getting him on a linebacker and all the time, right,
And if you're gonna play Nickel, well you're gonna be light,
you know. I mean, And people will probably match him
with Nickel, they'll probably count him as a receiver. But
as receivers go, he's a monster and a blocker, you
know for dbs, you know, so it's just one more layer.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, I just think they became
much more difficult to defend. Yeah, and I think the
defense got an upgrade.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I do too.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Overall, I do too.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I think you got two good players, one great player,
one really good player for another great player. Yeah, but
way more versatility. And Okay, it costs you a little
bit of money and you got two years older on defense. Okay,
but I can always find a safety. I mean, if
I'm light, I'm talking about off season needs. If I
(28:15):
if I have one need on defense and it's a safety,
that doesn't matter, You'll use a second round pick and
get the second best one in the draft an a year,
you know.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
And this kind of closes, to a degree the revolving
door that they've had opposite Joey Porter Jr.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Right, I want to mention that too, like who better
for Porter to continue to learn from? And maybe a
pick next year? Ramsey? How many Pro Bowls have they
gone to together? How many picks do they have? And
highlights and money in the bank and all that stuff too.
And again I I don't I'm not on board. And
I'll never say Minko was losing it. That's why they
(28:56):
dumped him, because we said that a thousand times that. Yes,
he didn't pick the ball off as much, and there's
many many receipts, as the kids say, of me being
and sitting in the seat going man, Minka is not
the problem guys, right, I mean, they lost a very
good football player, don't get me wrong, but they don't
want to play single high as much. I mean, they
don't want to be as predictable on defense, and corners
(29:19):
are way harder to find. If Ramsey and Mink are
both a ninety out of one hundred grading scale, Ramsey's
still harder to find, you know, he just is.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
He's just not going to be able to acquire, right,
that kind of cornerback, with that kind of talent.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And look at on my first round corner's bust and
you know, you know what you're getting. You know what
you're getting right, Same thing with Slay what you're getting right.
I don't love their age, you know, big picture, but
folks are trying to win now while preparing the nests
for next year. That's really hard to pull off. But
they're in a really good spot to do it.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
They really are.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, we are much better than they were three months ago.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Let's talk about that and those kind of implications when
we come back. He is the Matt Williamson. I'm Dale Lollie.
You're listening to the Drive. You're on the Steelers Audio Network, Matt,
and I'll be back with more right after this.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
show on your twenty four to seven home of the
Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And we are back. I'm Dale Lolli. He is the
Matt Williamson. And well, it's obvious, Matt that the Steelers
aren't just looking at this season as a throwaway season.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
No, you don't add Ramsey, Slay Metcalf and Aaron Frickin'
Rodgers to the team if you don't think you can
compete this year, right, And they've done it in my opinion,
so expertly. I don't know. I'm saying they will win.
We don't know. The AFC is tough, I mean, but
I think they're a better football team now than they
were the last version we saw absolutely. And what I
(31:07):
was saying about the expertly doing things is they still
have what twelve picks next year? Yeah, and as it sits,
and I need to look at this in a day
or two when it gets updated, a lot of cap
space for next offseason two. Like you can. It's hard,
but you can. You can walk this fence of being
(31:27):
a better team now with some older guys, some established dudes,
and still having a bright future. This isn't pushing your
chips in. No, Like, this isn't.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
What Miami did, No, and got themselves in the cap trouble.
This isn't what Cleveland.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Did, right, Kshaw Watson deal right.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
They totally blew all away all the draft.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Picks, or like the Rams after year trading the first
round pick. I mean, they got sup Bowl out of it,
but they pushed all their chips in they happened to win.
Steelers really haven't pushed any chips in. They just have
different better players. Yeah, you know, I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
And this is what you should expect to me from
your franchise, the team that you root for. I want,
if I'm a fan, my team to be competitive year
in and year out.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Right, this is way better than trading Cam Hayward TJ
Watt and not in starting Mason Rudolph and trying to, oh,
maybe we'll get the third pick in the draft and
get a franchise quarterback. I want to get to the
fifth pick in the draft, get a franchise quarterback and
insert them into this environment with Watt and Hayward and
these guys, you know what I mean, coming off a
(32:33):
winning season, that's how you do it.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah, because you do still have a bunch of young
players on this team. Yeah, and if you start showing
them that you were going to accept losing.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Right, you can't in that, right, you know that, you know,
Joe Green to Aaron Smith to Cam Hayward, don't think
it's okay you're the next one in this room. We're
not going to be you know, you don't tell the
rest of the line, and maybe we'll just lose this year.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, this is going to be I think my thirty
fourth season covering the Steelers. They've had three losing seasons Spunkers,
yeah in those years. But I'm old enough to remember
the eighties, Yeah, five and eleven and what that felt.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Like, right right right? And you know how that even
when they quote bottomed out, it wasn't that bad. No,
I mean it was five wins, six wins, seven wins,
and you know it was still pretty crazy. That's another
topic altogether, But I've been saying this too, like, I
know some people want change and you know all this. Yeah,
let's let's trade all the old guys start over. Well,
(33:42):
that ain't happening. First of all, you lost that battle.
But come talk to me around November when they have
two losses and what your tone would be. Yeah, you've
never seen it. None of you listening have ever seen that.
Imagine what you think the sky is falling after? Oh,
they lost three games in a row. You're two and eleven,
(34:02):
pretty bleak, pretty bleak, and you're battling the Browns or
bottom of the of the the division and barely beating them.
You're not gonna be real thrilled, folks.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
No, you will not. And I see it a lot,
you know when I go out on the road to
different to different venues. Yeah, what it's like in some
of those stadiums. That's why it's got to be hopeless
Steeler fans are able to take over.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, exactly right, right, because those teams have no hope. Yeah,
you go to Atlanta. I mean, they've been an okay organization,
but they haven't won anything and they're not an upper
tier I'm sure by week six and when they're two
and four. People like, all right, go watch Georgia Tech
or Georgia different to do, not ragging on the Pirates.
(34:46):
But we see how that goes here. I mean, no,
I don't think the Steelers could ever be the Pirates
where it's decades and decades of being terrible. But there's
no reason to have one's in that way.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
No, you're right, No, it's not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
No, because why would you? I mean again, because you
have the resources to accomplish your goal next year. Still,
I mean, it'd be different if this pick. You know,
they didn't trade makea and instead they traded a second
and two thirds. Oh well, that's a different story, right,
that's a different story.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Mortgage some of that future, right right right? You had
lined up to help you acquire a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, I mean you gave it.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
None of that.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
You gave up some cap space and a player that
you love. I mean, I'm not dismissing the loss of Maca.
It's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah. In terms of what this means for tj W, Yeah, nothing.
I think it makes a difference at all. No.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I think negotiations stay exactly the same and it gets done.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
And I think you're showing TJ what, hey, we value you,
they could trade what? Oh yeah, I'm sure they got offers.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Oh yeah, I mean schefter just reported a couple of
hours ago or whatever that teams have been trying to
figure out a way to get TJ. Watt and Steelers
aren't interested. That's what you want to hear?
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Right, No, wonder what because all here in Pittsburgh he's
washed up, you don't pay him, blah blah blah. No,
he's still a very good football player.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yes, and because of this move that's trade and some
other things slay, I think they're going to free him
up more, you know what I mean, Like they're going
to get back to or doing everything they can. And
I approve everything they have done of getting back to
leading the league in sacks.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
This also shows what, hey, look, we are in this
to win.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah yeah, Now, I mean how many playoff games is
what won her? Right? Right? He wants to do both too,
you know, right? I mean he said that many times
like people. I remember, I think it was this passed
off season one before TJ. Now you're considered one of
the best defensive players on franchise history, which is an
amazing accomplishment in this franchise. He's like, yeah, but they
(36:50):
all have I'm not in that group. You're right, No,
you're not. I mean he might be on the field,
but you don't have four rings.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
So what do you think this makes this team's ceiling?
I think the.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Ceiling of the defense is the best in the league.
And leading the league in sacks and leading the league
in all big plays, that's the ceiling. Yeah, I'm like, now,
that's the highest ceiling anyone could hit.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I think the floor is like a top five defense.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I do too. I mean, even if two or
three guys get injured, you handle it. They got depth
right right, Yeah, And you could lose Queen and Sleigh
and we did our top twenty five, that would change
drastically now, like a lot of the defensive guys.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Would redo the We might have to do that Top
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Thursday or next week or whatever. But all of a sudden,
I can weather a storm where you lose Cam or
TJ or Queen anyone on defense. Now, I mean, my
defensive guys on the top twenty five list would probably
all fall a little, maybe not Watton Hayward, but there's
so much depth across the board with the exception of safety.
But Ramsey can play safety, and you find a safety,
(37:57):
you might sign Blackman in tomorrow or something. You know
that you can really weather that storm and they can
attack so many different ways. Now. I don't know what
to make of the offense. I mean, I think it's
in better hands than it was. Like Metcalf first pickings
is kind of a wash, but I prefer or Metcalf.
(38:18):
John Who's something they didn't have before. Roman Wilson is
still an unknown that you didn't get anything out of
last year that you'll get something from. I like the
running back room for this scheme better. I like the
quarterback better.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I like to start income offensive line.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
O line depth still worries me. But it's just an
NFL problem. And if things go off the rails this year,
I bet it's because Fraser and Fotan who got hurt?
You know what I mean? Something like that, like all
of a sudden.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
There's a situation where you could use some of those
picks next year.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Oh that's gonna happen, no matter what.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
A fifth round pick for who is it Cam Robinson?
They got traded?
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, someone like something like that. I
know they won't make a deal with the Browns. But
I bet the Browns are trade and Wyatt Teller at
the trade deadline, you know, something like that, because they're
hopeless at that point. Now, Linemen are hard to find.
Can this Steemen the Super Bowl? That's just it's a
monster ask.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I think they are an AFC Championship contender.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I do too. Can Rogers on his best day hang
with an Alan or Mahomes? Yeah, I can write that story.
I couldn't with Wilson, and I definitely couldn't with Fields,
pick it, et cetera, et cetera. But on his best day,
can he hang with those guys?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Because the defense defense also gives you a chance against those.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Guys Like I keep thinking about the Broncos team that
Peyton Manning was a total shell of himself hands, but
he's still awesome for the neck up, so he did
all those things. Now, I think it's it wasn't that
long ago. I still think it's harder to win that
way now than then. You know, Trent Dilfer is not
(40:07):
winning a lot of Super Bowls nowadays, you know, I mean.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And Shelton Pagers ain't Trent Dilfer exactly inexactly.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And what I mean by that is the legion of
Boom the Bucks D when Brooks and Sap and those
guys are there, that Ravens D with Lewis that Broncos
D with Manning. Could this Stealer D be in that neighborhood. Yes, yeah,
I just don't know if that is enough to win
a Super Bowl in today's NFL. You still are going
to have to put up twenty three consistently. You know
(40:34):
what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Well, they averaged about four more points per game last
year than what they had averaged in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
We'll seem to don't not remember that.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
People, this offense looked the same, It didn't look all
the same.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Well, it did, right, more points of game more they
were Arthur Smiths, just like the guys behind it before.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Scoring two years ago they were sixteenth, seventeenth, I think
last year. If you can even get that even a
little bit more, a little more and I'm saying average,
are point more average twenty four, twenty four and a
half points a game, twenty five points?
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Maybe you score two more touchdowns on defense. Now, yeah,
over the course of the year, and your special team
still is top five ish. Okay, you know in the
margins they're really strong. Yeah, you know that type of stuff,
the Boswell factor, blocking kicks, that type of thing. I
don't know the ceiling of the offense. I do know
the ceiling of the defense, and I think it's the
(41:31):
best in the league. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
If the offense, again, we've We've said this over and
over again. If it can be I'm not even gonna
settle for league average, yell. If it can be twelve,
top fifteen somewhere, yeah, slightly above league average. I think
you have a chance to be a really good football team.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah. That would start with the run game. Yeah yeah,
I mean and again.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Control the clock, yep. Let Rogers make those two or
three big passes per game when you need a big
first down where you need a touchdown in a situation. Yeah,
he can still do that.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah again, get me to four point three per carry,
be a top five team and carries throughout the year.
Another weird thing I've been meaning to bring up that
have this more and more Rogers homework I do. He's
he is a benefactor for time and possession too, because
what he wants to do, he doesn't want a lot
of motion. He doesn't won a lot of bells and whistles.
(42:28):
Manning didn't either. Manning wanted Marvin on one side, Wayne
on the other. Static. I'm just gonna poker players sit
at the table, read the defense as long as I can.
So he often snaps the ball very late in the
down is where I'm going with this too. So Rogers
teams benefit from more time and possession because the clock's
ticking while he's just sitting there diagnosing too. And if
(42:51):
you run the ball, you know, and you got a
deeper defense. Good on teams for you know, field position
and stuff like that. I'm really intrigued.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I think this is an eleven or twelve win team.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Now I do too.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Is that gonna be good enough? Maybe it's better the
Ravens are still good?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
But do we think the Ravens are gonna sweep the
Steelers this year?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
No? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Do we think the Bengals are going to sweep the Steelers?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I bet the Steelers win four games in division?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
I think the Steelers are going to sweep the Browns.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean everybody might sweep every division,
right right, yeah? Yeah. Again, it's a tough schedule. I
mean that's not new to them. I mean it's gonna
get difficult as the season goes on. They got some
short weeks, things like that. Tomlin's been down that road
a million times and.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
That's all these situations. Yeah, right right, he knows how
to manage older players.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Yeah, not to not beat them up, but I think
they're in a good place.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I do too. It bothers me the misconception of, boy,
they're just trying all this stuff just to maybe win
one playoff game so they can say that that's you know,
off their back.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's not their goal.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Their goal. I mean their goal is to do two
things at once, and they're doing them much better than
they ever have or they have in recent memory. Yeah,
I like it. I mean you could still trade a
fourth round pick for a wide out, right, you know.
I mean still have all these picks options on the table.
I can't stop thinking about. I mean, they didn't move
any picks from last upcoming draft, where they have a
(44:21):
ton They're going to move some.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
They're not going to make twelve picks.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
They're not going to make twelve picks. I mean, whether
it comes down to the first round, that they trade
a bunch of them, or trade deadline or two hours
from now, I don't know, they're not They're going to
move a pick or due.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Yeah, because they can for players. Yeah, it's it's going
to be interesting no matter what happens. It's going to
be a fascinating season.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Absolutely. I mean they were a pretty good football team
and they made some massive changes. I mean again, people
thought it was a massive deal to trade a first
round pick for Maka, which it was it was. I
mean that we went decades without them doing that. Wow,
I mean that's that's the big move. This offseason's kind
of put that to shame. Yeah, the second round pick
(45:04):
for Metcalf, he signed a future Hall of Fame quarterback.
I mean this massive moves.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah, so they have not simply sat on their hands
and done nothing.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
You might know this better than but how many new
starters are there going to be on the team.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
I looked at that a couple of weeks ago and
I thought I came up with nine, and now we're
talking about even more than that.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, I don't know if Nause he's a new starter.
I mean somebody he was a starter. So somebody's going
to be the starter. Okay you're saying so, yeah, and
again some of the other line stuff was by default
yet last time, but there's been a lot of new
change A. Yeah, yeah, they didn't just they don't just
(45:49):
run it back, guys, all right, they don't just run
it back. Just because they fire the head coach and
burn the building down, that doesn't mean they're running it back.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
This is as aggressive as I think I've seen any team.
Yeah in the NFL, and quite.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Some time talk about like brand name players.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah, you're right, so this should be interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Interesting. Is not gonna be a problem, No, no, no,
for sure, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Let's get to another break that's going to do it
for our number one of the drive here on the
Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I will be back with
the hour number two right after this
The least.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson on
your twenty four to seven home of the Black and
GOLDNR Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
And welcome to the Drive. I am Dale Lolly, he
is the Matt Williamson. And well it was a nice
quiet weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, the weekend was quiet. Yeah, it's the dead period.
There's nothing going on in the league. This morning not
so much.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, if you live on the West Coast, you woke
up to some news.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Some news, to say the least.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
The Steelers sending safety mink Of Fitzpatrick and a twenty
twenty seven fifth round draft pick.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Reportedly this yeh official yet to.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The Miami Dolphins for cornerback Jalen Ramsey and Johnny's tight
end and a twenty twenty seventh seventh round draft pick.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We have to spend next to no time talking about
the draft picks. I mean these are twenty twenty seven
pick swap. Okay, Miami made a little spare change there.
It's as close to a player for two player deal
as you'll see. I mean, it's a flat out player
swap and Steelers aside, Like when I did this on
my national podcast, I opened by saying one of these teams.
(01:28):
These teams are just in way different positions, you know,
like if you don't, we'll dig into the Steeler specifics.
Probably some Miami specifics too. But one team is very
cash strapped and pushed all their chips in to try
to win the whole thing and didn't, and now their
whole staff is very much on the hot seat. Obviously,
I'm talking about Miami. And they told Jalen Ramsey, you
(01:48):
don't even have to come to mini camp. We're not
gonna find you. You have an excused absence. They basically
told Johnny Smith, we we got a lot out of
eighty eight catches last year, got a lot out of
him last year, but we don't have the money to
extend you, and we're gonna They're not stressing a third
or fourth pass catcher in that offense. So those two
leaving town doesn't surprise me at all. Minca leaving surprised me. Yeah,
(02:13):
I mean I didn't see that coming.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
No, nor did I. And you know, at first glance,
I thought, boy, that's that opens up some holes. And
I started thinking about it. I'm like, Ramsey can play
some free safety.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Ramsey can do. Let's start there.
What are they getting in Ramsey? So first off, just
I don't forget this. He went to Florida State as
a safety, you know, and became this big, huge He's
a rare physical specimen that goes in the top five
of any draft class. And early in his career he
(02:51):
was basically the revis eraser, top corner in the league
type guy. The Rams a very forward thinking and they
were kind of at the forefront of the Fangio cover
four and all the versatility stuff, which I'm gonna get
to I think is a huge portion of this trade
started playing him in a wide variety of manners. Big
(03:13):
slot like, He's gonna play a ton of slot here,
some nickel linebacker, some deep safety, some strong safety, outside corner.
He is now a defensive back, you know. I mean,
you can call him a corner if you want, but
he can line up on the outside and play man
against T Higgins. I mean maybe not the degree could
five years ago, but he is a defensive back that's
(03:33):
gonna do tons of stuff and whether it's here or wherever,
he's playing in two or three years, much like Charles Woodson,
Rod Woodson, I think he'll eventually just be a big,
good safety.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You know, it's a transition in college is very much
like that of Rod Woodson.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Absolutely, Woodson at Purdue was a safety.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yes, right, right guys, right, they're like too big for
Cornery what people thought originally like, No, he can do it.
He can do it and better than anybody.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So I think that transition back could be a welcome
thing for him.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yes, absolutely. Now I don't think he's a one for
one Menca replacement this year, deep middle guy. I think
he can do it. I know Thornhill can do it.
They obviously just resigned Elliott frankly one of my questions,
and I don't even care at this point. They'll figure
it out. It's a great problem to have. When two
corners are on the field, who will be I don't know.
(04:30):
But when three corners on the field, I know exactly
who is going to be, and it won't be any bishop.
This is a direct replacement. Like just one way of
looking at it is Ramsey upgrades over Bishop, Thornhill downgrades
over Minca. But I think those gaps are bigger than.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Oh Ramsey versus Bishop is night day.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I mean pro bowler versus borderline roster playing free time
right right right.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Since twenty seventeen, there have been three defensive or two
defensive backs who've been named All Pro three times. Okay,
one is Jalen Ramsey, the other one is making Fitspatchery.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Not surprising. Okay, that makes some sense. So where I'm
going with this to me is, I think the defense
is gonna look a lot different. I think you're gonna
see way less single high middle of the field closed.
They were at the absolute top of the league in
Cover three, Cover one. I think they're gonna play a
(05:29):
lot more fangio stuff, a lot more two high looks,
Cover four, more blitzing, more man throw a lot more
at a lot less predictability. Yeah, I mean it was
very much an execution based defense pretty much know who's Russian,
who is in by NFL standards. I mean, of course
they threw wrinkles in. It wasn't they just line up
and run the same defense every time. But I think
(05:52):
they're gonna do a lot more schematically. Now, this just
screams that on defense.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And I think you know, and you
look at the one for one trade to your point, Yeah,
you're downgrading at safety. But what's the least important position
perhaps on a defense, and the easiest to find and
(06:17):
easiest to find. Yeah, it's probably safety.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's very much an Omar Khn money situation to me too,
Like I don't think Omar became a GM and be like, man,
I wish we weren't paying safety this much money. But
I think a money guy does not want his money
going there. He wants to go into what he wants
to go into. D Lineman, he wants to go into
do it all Joey Porter's next contract. Because you can
get safeties. I mean, I'm not applying to even do this,
(06:42):
but justin Simmons and blackmen are on the free agent
market now, there's always a safety out right there. Or
you can use a day two pick and get a
really good starter, you know, like those that positions the
easiest to find.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I still like Sebastian Castro a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah that's a good point too, you know, like maybe
it's a reindorsement for him too, like maybe you're gonna
be in the mix, you know, so, Okay, you're not
three deep at safety with studs, but it wouldn't be
hard to find another. Whether it's before the opening day
or next offseason. If need be Elliott, you love Thornhill's
(07:17):
a starter that was kind of stuck as your third guy.
And if thorn Hill's your worst quote defensive player that's
gonna play a lot of snaps, I'll take it. Yeah,
you know what I mean, think about it. It discuss
kind of dawned on me, like who are probably the
fifteen most hiatt projected defensive snap players on the team.
(07:38):
You know, the d lineman will rotate, so there's a
lot of them. Are up front, two or three linebackers,
definitely these three corners. Thornhill's one of them. But if
he's number fifteen of the fifteen, you're in really good shape, right,
You're in really good shape. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I mean, it just gives him so much more versatility,
so much more versatility. And again to seem make if
Fitzpatrick go right, I don't think he did any wrong.
But you know, at the same time, you know you
had to give up something that's.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Why I want and some had be money too.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
When we talked about, yeah, the potential for signing or
trading for Ramsey, I should say that was the flying
the ointment for me when you brought it up and right,
they can't afford.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
It, right because they still probably wanted to add a receiver,
but we didn't know John Smith to be coming back to. Yeah,
he's more receiver than tight end, but that's just.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
What he'd eaten up the entirety of what they had
left in cap space, and they probably would have had
to do some maneuvering.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, now with.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
The trade to make a Fitzpatrick, you cleared cap space.
You took on a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
But there's a little bit of dead money involved, but
not much much, and most teams have way more than
what stealers haven't done. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Anyway, and Ramsey's actually under contract through twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, it's pretty nice, and I assume they plan on
keeping him for that duration or moving him to safety
or whatever, but just figuring it out. And they add
another year to John new from understand.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And according to spot track, with with Ramsey, the cost
isn't prohibitive until twenty twenty eight, Okay, when he's thirty four.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I know he's making a big buck this year, but
after that, I don't think it's that bad.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
According to spot Track, the base salary and they're estimating
this now is two point seventy five.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
For this year.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oh really, they're just saying.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
His campit after the adjustments is seven point four million.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Oh wow. Okay, now I thought it was much worse
than that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I don't know that that's true.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the money stuff is
still out there, folks.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
We don't we'll find out once all the drink details, right.
But next year, then the base salary is ten million.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I'll do that all day long. He has a even
if him and Mak are equal players, you're saving there.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, he has a game by game roster bonus of
seven hundred and sixty five thousand dollars. But even at that,
that makes the cap hit eighteen.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Point three Okay, it's not crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And then twenty point five in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Seven, okay, which again, percentage of cap in twenty twenty
seven is probably very low.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Next to nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I mean, even if he's only a safety at that
point and not the verse little guy that he is now,
I mean, that still probably is a good buck and
you could get out of it if it's a disaster. Yeah.
So the money stuff is what I'm not I'm unclear
of because it's happened recently and that has all gone through.
But the scheme stuff to me screams, well, let me
go on it a little tangent like since they were eliminated,
(10:40):
I've been really on two bandwagons of these are things
that have to get better. And on offense, I need
four point one yards per carry to get up to
four three four four. I'm not asking you to be
top of the league. It only be five to five
or whatever. And on defense, you need to get back
to more or less leading the league in sacks. You know.
(11:00):
Pro Football Focus agreed with us. We think they have
the best defensive front in the league, you know. And
it's not the front's issue that you're not leading the
league in sacks. They were middle of the road in sacks,
but they were top of the league in force fumbles,
they were top of the league in batted passes the
line of scrimmage, their top of league in takeaways, and
if you could add the sacks to it, I think
(11:23):
it's a back seven issue why you don't why you're
not the top of the league of sacks, not a front.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Issue, a cornerback issue.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Mostly corner. I mean, I think you were scheme strangled
a little bit and didn't have a ton of versatility.
You weren't real anxious to blitz. And when teams like
Mahomes and frankly Rogers started getting the ball out of their
hands insanely quick, when you were playing the top quarterbacks,
you were kind of screwed a little bit. Yeah, and
(11:50):
WATCHWCE and doubles. So I think they're gonna blitz a
lot more. I think they're gonna throw so much at
you more. Schematically, some of the lesser quarterbacks, not the
Rogers Homes that are mentally up here, are going to
be double clutching and taking hits. And even like the
Burroughs of the world. You maybe your blitz and he
beats you over the top, but he's gonna be really
(12:12):
sore on Monday, or maybe he doesn't finish on Sunday.
I mean, that's my goal is this offense is not
equipped to play the Bengals thirty five thirty eight week
after a week. But if it's I had said, say,
the best defense in the league, and they make you
hurt with depth and aggression and now scheme on top
(12:33):
of that, sign me up, man.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, I think you know the other thing. And these
people need to be reminded about one of the things
that I've heard we're seeing consistently on social media and
in comments and things of that nature. Well, the Steelers
didn't make any changes. They didn't change this or that
on the coaching staff. No, they changed the player.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
They changed the players in order they know the change
needs to happen. Yeah, it doesn't mean if to fire
the whole world. I mean we joked on the way
in boring old Steelers never make any moves. They don't
ever change set in stone. This is the seventies. I've
even had buddies being like, this team still thinks that
you win with defense in this league. I'm like, they
got better on offense too, and they might not be
(13:17):
done on offense. And they have a brand new quarterback.
Like they're not content just winning nine games and losing
in the first round, and this still sets them up
for the big term, big picture plan of adding a quarterback.
Or you didn't even lose any of your draft picks
next year. No, he didn't lose anything. You know you
got you were if you if you're the least biggest
(13:39):
fan of this trade, the Steelers are a better football
team than they were twenty four hours. I mean they
had two guys, you know, right, we added two quality players,
right for one quality player. Jona Swith got eighty eight
passes last year. It was like height in five in fantasy.
I mean, he's not going to do that here. But
he's a good player.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Oh but he catches fifty.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh I do too.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, you know so I think that's uh.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
We'll do the whole segment on him. I'm sure, but.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Right, it's it's definitely an upgrade.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You're better now than you were. Yeah, I mean it
costs you some money, cost.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You some money.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeahs you have it. A tiny bit of draft capital,
a tiny bit. It's tiny, but that's it. That's it, right,
you got you move the chairs around a little bit.
On defense, we want to be more versatile. People have
picked on our slot for three years in a row
or whatever. We can't have that anymore, especially when the
ball is going to come out fast. I would rather
be a little bit weak thirty yards downfield than three
(14:33):
yards downfield. If I have the league's best pass rush, absolutely,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, I can't have them quick hitting me to death,
you know. I need quality players near the line of screamage.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Let's get through a break. When we come back, we'll
talk about the Johnny Smith option of this trade. He
is Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lullie. You're listening to
the Drive. You're on the Steelers Audio Network. Man, I'll
be back with more right after this.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
on your twenty four to seven home of the Black
and Golds in Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And we are back. I'm Dale Lolly. He is the
Matt Williamson and we talked about the acquisition of Jalen Ramsey.
Let's talk now about Johnny Smith. Yeah, and what he
brings to the Steelers offense.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
A lot of people think he's just like a throw in,
like not a big deal. No, this is a big
time player.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Six three, two hundred and forty eight pounds. Now, that's
what he was when he's coming out of college.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I would bet he's lessons opposed to more just the way. Yeah,
I mean he can put her on.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
He ran a four to six two with the combine. Okay,
he had a vertical of thirty eight inches surprise me,
ten foot seven inch broad jump.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
He's a super athlete. He's really athletic, yes, and hasn't
lost any of it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
By the way, folks, the athleticism is similar to a
let's say he was a six foot three, two and
twenty pound wide receiver.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right right, they're good, Well, all right, let's get it
out of the way. Oh man, they got three tight ends.
How they're gonna use a least tight ends? He's a
big slot. Yeah. He is not going to line up
like Darnell Washington and try to block Miles Garrett. That
is not what he's gonna do.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
He is good, however, in zone blocking schemes, Yes, because
of that athleticism.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
He gets latterly and can really really move. And he's
not a wooss. I mean, he'll stick his face in there.
He's just not super powerful. I mean, he's not the
biggest guy. He's receiving typers. He'll seal the ds for you, absolutely,
and he'll blow defensive backs apart, you know. I mean,
so he has value in that. Now. The Smiths obviously
like each other. John new and Arthur I mean he
(16:53):
followed Arthur Smith from Tennessee to Atlanta, spent two years
together in Tennessee. Yeah, okay, they drafted him one year
in Atlanta and then now he's together with him again
in Pittsburgh. Yeah, and fantasy people will remember, man, why
is this John Neu Smith guy catching all these balls
instead of Kyle Pitts. Well, he might be better when you
look at.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It, but yeah, I mean if you look at it,
and we got eighty eight passes last year. That year
in Atlanta, Smith caught fifty passes for five hundred and
eighty two yards.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
In a run heavy team in three touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Okay, Pitts caught fifty three passes for six hundred and
sixty seven yards and three touchdowns. So they got one
hundred and three catches at the tight end position for
over eleven hundred yards. It's not too tight, almost twelve
hundred yards.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, had two tight ends right right, right right? What
do you think would have happened to? Yeah, like I've
gotten a million tweets. Oh, they guess they're trading Friarmouth though, No,
I don't think so. Man. They led the league in
thirteen personnel last year, and.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
They were twelve and twelve person and they were.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Right in at the thought of league in twelve yeah,
because sometimes they were in thirteen too much to be
a thought of league in twelve. So they're going to
live in multiple tight end packages, just like the corner situation.
When there's two out there, I don't know which two
it'll be. It'll probably rotate, it'll probably be situational. I
don't think this is a knock on Washington at all.
Washington's almost a totally different beat on Johnny Smith. Like
(18:16):
if they walked in the room, you wouldn't think they
played in the same position. But they do obviously want
versatility at that tight end position. Every tight end move
they've made lately is for somebody kind of different than
what they had, you know. I mean it's just different mismatches.
And he's a mismatch. He can really run, can really
stretch the seam. He'll align in the backfield a time,
(18:37):
the catch really good after the catch, right, So he's
a weapon. I mean, he's a big slot that couldn't
be any different as a big slot than Austin or Wilson.
It's just a different type of pass catcher.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
So here are the teams and the people have asked, wow,
does this you know make them better? Here are the
teams the year's twelve personnel the most last.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Year, but the Ravens had to be at the top.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Top five. Yeah, the Raiders were actually number one.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
They fowers right right, right, but that was their entire offense, right.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
The next four teams were the Chiefs, sure, the Lions,
the Texans, and the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Okay, some of the best teams and the best teams
in the league, right right, Like the Ravens aren't trying
to trade Andrews. They win Andrews and likely you know,
I mean, like, give me a bunch of these days.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It makes you tough to play against.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Right. That's where I was going to go with this too,
is it's such a week to week league. The teams
that play with a real fullback that's hard to prepare
for in seven days, which is really four days. And
teams that play thirteen personnel that's hard to prepare against.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Some teams they don't even have three tight ends on
the roster.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Right, or the third guys your special team or doesn't dress.
You know, Steel are gonna keep four and use them all,
you know, I mean, I'm not sure Hayward's gonna see
the field a ton on offense, now, but you know
what he is again, it's just a different way of playing.
When Hernandez and Gronk became a thing, Well, how do
we play defend against this? You know, Stefanski Say what
(20:07):
you want about him, but he's won two Coaches of
the Year. His first one was when they were playing
a ton of thirteen personnel and I criticized their fan
and pick. But to get back to those type of things,
you know, he's a good offensive mind of how can
I attack teams differently than just eleven? Like I have
great respect for the Bengals offense, but they're not creative.
They come out in eleven and Burrow just you know,
(20:28):
manipulates it all day long. Yeah, we got better checkers
than you do. And you know, and this is just
a way of scheming things up, which Rogers will do
pre snap as well as anyone in the league.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Right now, he's gonna say he's going to identify the
mismatch pre snap over and over, over and over and
over take advantage of it. The other thing this does
everybody who's been screaming for the Steelers to throw over
the middle more.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oh, it's coming, it's coming. I mean, read the writing
on the wall, right, I mean it's coming, There's no
doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You've got you've got talented tight ends. You're gonna throw
over the middle.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, And to your point, run after catch is huge.
I mean that was when the Titans offense was at
its best. Over the middle, shots off and off, play action,
run after the catch, shrug off a smaller defender. And
John new Smith's not AJ Brown. He's not gonna take
it eighty, although he has recently, but he's gonna be
hard to get on the ground as his Friar Mooth,
(21:25):
as his Washington, as his metcalf On in breakers, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I'm aligning Johnny Smith in the slot next to DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I mean that size.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Let Johnny Smith clear out the underneath and here comes it,
Here comes DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, now you got a clear throw, absolutely clear lane.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I mean you're just big bodies picking for each other
on a on a basketball court in Washington and Friar Mouth.
I mean, that's serious beef. Another complaint I've had about
the Steelers red zone offense, Well, you're at you got
big red zone weapons now, I mean their red zone
offense was at the bottom of the league last year.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, Johnny Smith has two years in his career, two
different seasons where he's got eight touchdown passes.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Really including last year. Okay, I mean he caught eighty
eight balls and eight touchdowns last year as the number
three receiver in Miami. You know, he's not a throw
in at all. He's going to be very productive here.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, I'm sure Rogers is going to look at this
and anytime he sees a linebacker on Friarmuth or.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Or Smith or Smith, yeah look out or Warren or yeah. Yeah. Really,
I mean I'm sitting here thinking the variety. It's not
just Metcalf now and then the Pips, you know, I mean,
you got a lot of different varieties. And to your point,
coverage linebackers are a real shortage in the NFL right now.
There's not many warners out there.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And if they are, if you're putting coverage linebackers on
the field, guess what, right, you're not gonna be as
good as against against a run.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And thirteen personnel. Whether Friarmuth and Smith are Mark Bavarro
or Mark Brunner blockers, doesn't matter. They're they're blocking safeties
and corners at that point if you're gonna play a nickel.
You know. So both these acquisitions, the two players they added,
do a lot of different things, I mean to me,
to your point last segment, Okay, they didn't make a
(23:16):
lot of coaching changes, but they know scheme things needed
to change, so you get players that can do more things.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, you know, right, you're building this offense into what
Arthur Smith his vision is and.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
A lot of good movement blockers. To your point too,
you know.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, so I expect it to look much different.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I expect to look much different. And the guy pulling
the trigger is always going to have you in the
right play and always going to go with the right
player to football. He may not throw it like the MVP.
He might not move like the best quarterback in the
league anymore is a pretty damn good, but he's in
a beat, a pre snap a lot, a lot a lot.
I would still be in the market for a Gabe
Davis too, I mean I think something like that could
(23:56):
still happen, you know, just an outside bigger, somebody bigger
than and Wilson. They may not be done on offense.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah. The other thing this does you know when you
when you look at it. They just one of the
things that Rogers is really good at is as quick.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Oh, the quick game is a quick game. Yeah, it's
still great.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
And the and the snapping the ball when the defense
is making changes.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Well, if you've got guys like John U. Smith Pat
Fryermouth on the field, you don't need to change based
on down in distance.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
No, right, right, right, But the defense might, the defense might,
and Rogers is gonna catch him. Rogers gonna catch him.
He's the best ever at that. And this offense because
it's gonna be unorthodox by NFL standards. I'm sure there's
gonna be defenses. Should we be a nickel now or.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Should we be in you know, it's gonna be confusion.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, and I think that you're gonna see a wider
variety of offensive packages, even more thirteen personnel. Washington's already
hard to play against, yeah, because he looks like Jones
and you can still catch passes. He's not just like
what's his face? The lead RICARDA Ricard is really an
(25:10):
offensive lineman. He's a guard that runs around where Washington's attack,
catch the ball and make a concerted effort for him
to get the ball in.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
One of the things that Rogers said in mini camp
that really stuck out to me was it Washington reminds
him of Marcedes.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Lewis, who's still in the league at three years old
and was a pass catching the first round pick.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
He was a threat.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
He was a threat who's a massive. People might not
take that as a compliment. That's a compliment. Marcedes Lewis
was like the biggest tight end the league, first round pick,
smartest could be unorthodox, and that he is such a
great blocker but can do more than enough in the
passing game to still be out there as one year
five eligible. You know, if he has anything close to
(25:56):
Marsides Lewis, like career, sign me up for.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
That back of an under Like So, let's say you
have you have Connor Hayward. You're in twelve personnel. Hayward's
on the field. The first player you line them up
as a fullback, right, the next play you detach him.
So now you're technically in thirteen. Right, the defense has
(26:22):
to make a switch.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Absolutely, It's just.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
It's going to be an undrum.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, and I'm not even sure how much Hayward will
see the field with those guys ahead of him. But
Smith creates that himself, right. I mean, the Niners were
very much a three wide team, you know, throw it
all over the place, quick hitters or not. Niners, Dolphins,
I'm sorry who came from the Niners? And Smith wasn't
(26:49):
lining up in line and blocking people. He was their
third receiver, Yeah, I mean he was.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
They didn't have a third receiver.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
They have a third receiver. And it became yeah two, yeah,
they had two and and really for a lot of
the season and one right exactly. So Smith and himself
is one of those guys that even if you're in
I don't know, it's him and Washington, Friar Moose on
the sideline whatever, they're all going to rotate to count
(27:15):
that as twelve. And if you play your bass or
you're getting him on a linebacker and all the time, right,
And if you're gonna play Nickel, well you're gonna be light,
you know. I mean, And people will probably match him
with Nickel, they'll probably count him as a receiver. But
as receivers go, he's a monster and a blocker, you
know for dbs, you know, so it's just one more layer.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, I just think they became
much more difficult to defend. Yeah, and I think the
defense got an upgrade.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I do too.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Overall, I do too.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I think you got two good players, one great player,
one really good player for another great player. Yeah, but
way more versatility. And Okay, it costs you a little
bit of money and you got two years older on defense. Okay,
but I can always find a safety. I mean, if
I'm light, I'm talking about off season needs. If I
(28:15):
if I have one need on defense and it's a safety,
that doesn't matter, You'll use a second round pick and
get the second best one in the draft an a year,
you know.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
And this kind of closes, to a degree the revolving
door that they've had opposite Joey Porter Jr.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Right, I want to mention that too, like who better
for Porter to continue to learn from? And maybe a
pick next year? Ramsey? How many Pro Bowls have they
gone to together? How many picks do they have? And
highlights and money in the bank and all that stuff too.
And again I I don't I'm not on board. And
I'll never say Minko was losing it. That's why they
(28:56):
dumped him, because we said that a thousand times that. Yes,
he didn't pick the ball off as much, and there's
many many receipts, as the kids say, of me being
and sitting in the seat going man, Minka is not
the problem guys, right, I mean, they lost a very
good football player, don't get me wrong, but they don't
want to play single high as much. I mean, they
don't want to be as predictable on defense, and corners
(29:19):
are way harder to find. If Ramsey and Mink are
both a ninety out of one hundred grading scale, Ramsey's
still harder to find, you know, he just is.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
He's just not going to be able to acquire, right,
that kind of cornerback, with that kind of talent.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And look at on my first round corner's bust and
you know, you know what you're getting. You know what
you're getting right, Same thing with Slay what you're getting right.
I don't love their age, you know, big picture, but
folks are trying to win now while preparing the nests
for next year. That's really hard to pull off. But
they're in a really good spot to do it.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
They really are.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, we are much better than they were three months ago.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Let's talk about that and those kind of implications when
we come back. He is the Matt Williamson. I'm Dale Lollie.
You're listening to the Drive. You're on the Steelers Audio Network, Matt,
and I'll be back with more right after this.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
show on your twenty four to seven home of the
Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And we are back. I'm Dale Lolli. He is the
Matt Williamson. And well, it's obvious, Matt that the Steelers
aren't just looking at this season as a throwaway season.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
No, you don't add Ramsey, Slay Metcalf and Aaron Frickin'
Rodgers to the team if you don't think you can
compete this year, right, And they've done it in my opinion,
so expertly. I don't know. I'm saying they will win.
We don't know. The AFC is tough, I mean, but
I think they're a better football team now than they
were the last version we saw absolutely. And what I
(31:07):
was saying about the expertly doing things is they still
have what twelve picks next year? Yeah, and as it sits,
and I need to look at this in a day
or two when it gets updated, a lot of cap
space for next offseason two. Like you can. It's hard,
but you can. You can walk this fence of being
(31:27):
a better team now with some older guys, some established dudes,
and still having a bright future. This isn't pushing your
chips in. No, Like, this isn't.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
What Miami did, No, and got themselves in the cap trouble.
This isn't what Cleveland.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Did, right, Kshaw Watson deal right.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
They totally blew all away all the draft.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Picks, or like the Rams after year trading the first
round pick. I mean, they got sup Bowl out of it,
but they pushed all their chips in they happened to win.
Steelers really haven't pushed any chips in. They just have
different better players. Yeah, you know, I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
And this is what you should expect to me from
your franchise, the team that you root for. I want,
if I'm a fan, my team to be competitive year
in and year out.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Right, this is way better than trading Cam Hayward TJ
Watt and not in starting Mason Rudolph and trying to, oh,
maybe we'll get the third pick in the draft and
get a franchise quarterback. I want to get to the
fifth pick in the draft, get a franchise quarterback and
insert them into this environment with Watt and Hayward and
these guys, you know what I mean, coming off a
(32:33):
winning season, that's how you do it.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Yeah, because you do still have a bunch of young
players on this team. Yeah, and if you start showing
them that you were going to accept losing.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Right, you can't in that, right, you know that, you know,
Joe Green to Aaron Smith to Cam Hayward, don't think
it's okay you're the next one in this room. We're
not going to be you know, you don't tell the
rest of the line, and maybe we'll just lose this year.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, this is going to be I think my thirty
fourth season covering the Steelers. They've had three losing seasons Spunkers,
yeah in those years. But I'm old enough to remember
the eighties, Yeah, five and eleven and what that felt.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Like, right right right? And you know how that even
when they quote bottomed out, it wasn't that bad. No,
I mean it was five wins, six wins, seven wins,
and you know it was still pretty crazy. That's another
topic altogether, But I've been saying this too, like, I
know some people want change and you know all this. Yeah,
let's let's trade all the old guys start over. Well,
(33:42):
that ain't happening. First of all, you lost that battle.
But come talk to me around November when they have
two losses and what your tone would be. Yeah, you've
never seen it. None of you listening have ever seen that.
Imagine what you think the sky is falling after? Oh,
they lost three games in a row. You're two and eleven,
(34:02):
pretty bleak, pretty bleak, and you're battling the Browns or
bottom of the of the the division and barely beating them.
You're not gonna be real thrilled, folks.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
No, you will not. And I see it a lot,
you know when I go out on the road to
different to different venues. Yeah, what it's like in some
of those stadiums. That's why it's got to be hopeless
Steeler fans are able to take over.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, exactly right, right, because those teams have no hope. Yeah,
you go to Atlanta. I mean, they've been an okay organization,
but they haven't won anything and they're not an upper
tier I'm sure by week six and when they're two
and four. People like, all right, go watch Georgia Tech
or Georgia different to do, not ragging on the Pirates.
(34:46):
But we see how that goes here. I mean, no,
I don't think the Steelers could ever be the Pirates
where it's decades and decades of being terrible. But there's
no reason to have one's in that way.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
No, you're right, No, it's not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
No, because why would you? I mean again, because you
have the resources to accomplish your goal next year. Still,
I mean, it'd be different if this pick. You know,
they didn't trade makea and instead they traded a second
and two thirds. Oh well, that's a different story, right,
that's a different story.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Mortgage some of that future, right right right? You had
lined up to help you acquire a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, I mean you gave it.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
None of that.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
You gave up some cap space and a player that
you love. I mean, I'm not dismissing the loss of Maca.
It's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah. In terms of what this means for tj W, Yeah, nothing.
I think it makes a difference at all. No.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I think negotiations stay exactly the same and it gets done.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
And I think you're showing TJ what, hey, we value you,
they could trade what? Oh yeah, I'm sure they got offers.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Oh yeah, I mean schefter just reported a couple of
hours ago or whatever that teams have been trying to
figure out a way to get TJ. Watt and Steelers
aren't interested. That's what you want to hear?
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Right, No, wonder what because all here in Pittsburgh he's
washed up, you don't pay him, blah blah blah. No,
he's still a very good football player.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yes, and because of this move that's trade and some
other things slay, I think they're going to free him
up more, you know what I mean, Like they're going
to get back to or doing everything they can. And
I approve everything they have done of getting back to
leading the league in sacks.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
This also shows what, hey, look, we are in this
to win.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah yeah, Now, I mean how many playoff games is
what won her? Right? Right? He wants to do both too,
you know, right? I mean he said that many times
like people. I remember, I think it was this passed
off season one before TJ. Now you're considered one of
the best defensive players on franchise history, which is an
amazing accomplishment in this franchise. He's like, yeah, but they
(36:50):
all have I'm not in that group. You're right, No,
you're not. I mean he might be on the field,
but you don't have four rings.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
So what do you think this makes this team's ceiling?
I think the.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Ceiling of the defense is the best in the league.
And leading the league in sacks and leading the league
in all big plays, that's the ceiling. Yeah, I'm like, now,
that's the highest ceiling anyone could hit.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I think the floor is like a top five defense.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I do too. I mean, even if two or
three guys get injured, you handle it. They got depth
right right, Yeah, And you could lose Queen and Sleigh
and we did our top twenty five, that would change
drastically now, like a lot of the defensive guys.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Would redo the We might have to do that Top
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Thursday or next week or whatever. But all of a sudden,
I can weather a storm where you lose Cam or
TJ or Queen anyone on defense. Now, I mean, my
defensive guys on the top twenty five list would probably
all fall a little, maybe not Watton Hayward, but there's
so much depth across the board with the exception of safety.
But Ramsey can play safety, and you find a safety,
(37:57):
you might sign Blackman in tomorrow or something. You know
that you can really weather that storm and they can
attack so many different ways. Now. I don't know what
to make of the offense. I mean, I think it's
in better hands than it was. Like Metcalf first pickings
is kind of a wash, but I prefer or Metcalf.
(38:18):
John Who's something they didn't have before. Roman Wilson is
still an unknown that you didn't get anything out of
last year that you'll get something from. I like the
running back room for this scheme better. I like the
quarterback better.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I like to start income offensive line.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
O line depth still worries me. But it's just an
NFL problem. And if things go off the rails this year,
I bet it's because Fraser and Fotan who got hurt?
You know what I mean? Something like that, like all
of a sudden.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
There's a situation where you could use some of those
picks next year.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Oh that's gonna happen, no matter what.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
A fifth round pick for who is it Cam Robinson?
They got traded?
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, someone like something like that. I
know they won't make a deal with the Browns. But
I bet the Browns are trade and Wyatt Teller at
the trade deadline, you know, something like that, because they're
hopeless at that point. Now, Linemen are hard to find.
Can this Steemen the Super Bowl? That's just it's a
monster ask.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I think they are an AFC Championship contender.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I do too. Can Rogers on his best day hang
with an Alan or Mahomes? Yeah, I can write that story.
I couldn't with Wilson, and I definitely couldn't with Fields,
pick it, et cetera, et cetera. But on his best day,
can he hang with those guys?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Because the defense defense also gives you a chance against those.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Guys Like I keep thinking about the Broncos team that
Peyton Manning was a total shell of himself hands, but
he's still awesome for the neck up, so he did
all those things. Now, I think it's it wasn't that
long ago. I still think it's harder to win that
way now than then. You know, Trent Dilfer is not
(40:07):
winning a lot of Super Bowls nowadays, you know, I mean.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And Shelton Pagers ain't Trent Dilfer exactly inexactly.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And what I mean by that is the legion of
Boom the Bucks D when Brooks and Sap and those
guys are there, that Ravens D with Lewis that Broncos
D with Manning. Could this Stealer D be in that neighborhood. Yes, yeah,
I just don't know if that is enough to win
a Super Bowl in today's NFL. You still are going
to have to put up twenty three consistently. You know
(40:34):
what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Well, they averaged about four more points per game last
year than what they had averaged in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
We'll seem to don't not remember that.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
People, this offense looked the same, It didn't look all
the same.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Well, it did, right, more points of game more they
were Arthur Smiths, just like the guys behind it before.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Scoring two years ago they were sixteenth, seventeenth, I think
last year. If you can even get that even a
little bit more, a little more and I'm saying average,
are point more average twenty four, twenty four and a
half points a game, twenty five points?
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Maybe you score two more touchdowns on defense. Now, yeah,
over the course of the year, and your special team
still is top five ish. Okay, you know in the
margins they're really strong. Yeah, you know that type of stuff,
the Boswell factor, blocking kicks, that type of thing. I
don't know the ceiling of the offense. I do know
the ceiling of the defense, and I think it's the
(41:31):
best in the league. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
If the offense, again, we've We've said this over and
over again. If it can be I'm not even gonna
settle for league average, yell. If it can be twelve,
top fifteen somewhere, yeah, slightly above league average. I think
you have a chance to be a really good football team.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah. That would start with the run game. Yeah yeah,
I mean and again.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Control the clock, yep. Let Rogers make those two or
three big passes per game when you need a big
first down where you need a touchdown in a situation. Yeah,
he can still do that.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah again, get me to four point three per carry,
be a top five team and carries throughout the year.
Another weird thing I've been meaning to bring up that
have this more and more Rogers homework I do. He's
he is a benefactor for time and possession too, because
what he wants to do, he doesn't want a lot
of motion. He doesn't won a lot of bells and whistles.
(42:28):
Manning didn't either. Manning wanted Marvin on one side, Wayne
on the other. Static. I'm just gonna poker players sit
at the table, read the defense as long as I can.
So he often snaps the ball very late in the
down is where I'm going with this too. So Rogers
teams benefit from more time and possession because the clock's
ticking while he's just sitting there diagnosing too. And if
(42:51):
you run the ball, you know, and you got a
deeper defense. Good on teams for you know, field position
and stuff like that. I'm really intrigued.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I think this is an eleven or twelve win team.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Now I do too.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Is that gonna be good enough? Maybe it's better the
Ravens are still good?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
But do we think the Ravens are gonna sweep the
Steelers this year?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
No? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Do we think the Bengals are going to sweep the Steelers?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I bet the Steelers win four games in division?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
I think the Steelers are going to sweep the Browns.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean everybody might sweep every division,
right right, yeah? Yeah. Again, it's a tough schedule. I
mean that's not new to them. I mean it's gonna
get difficult as the season goes on. They got some
short weeks, things like that. Tomlin's been down that road
a million times and.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
That's all these situations. Yeah, right right, he knows how
to manage older players.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Yeah, not to not beat them up, but I think
they're in a good place.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I do too. It bothers me the misconception of, boy,
they're just trying all this stuff just to maybe win
one playoff game so they can say that that's you know,
off their back.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's not their goal.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Their goal. I mean their goal is to do two
things at once, and they're doing them much better than
they ever have or they have in recent memory. Yeah,
I like it. I mean you could still trade a
fourth round pick for a wide out, right, you know.
I mean still have all these picks options on the table.
I can't stop thinking about. I mean, they didn't move
any picks from last upcoming draft, where they have a
(44:21):
ton They're going to move some.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
They're not going to make twelve picks.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
They're not going to make twelve picks. I mean, whether
it comes down to the first round, that they trade
a bunch of them, or trade deadline or two hours
from now, I don't know, they're not They're going to
move a pick or due.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Yeah, because they can for players. Yeah, it's it's going
to be interesting no matter what happens. It's going to
be a fascinating season.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Absolutely. I mean they were a pretty good football team
and they made some massive changes. I mean again, people
thought it was a massive deal to trade a first
round pick for Maka, which it was it was. I
mean that we went decades without them doing that. Wow,
I mean that's that's the big move. This offseason's kind
of put that to shame. Yeah, the second round pick
(45:04):
for Metcalf, he signed a future Hall of Fame quarterback.
I mean this massive moves.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah, so they have not simply sat on their hands
and done nothing.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
You might know this better than but how many new
starters are there going to be on the team.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
I looked at that a couple of weeks ago and
I thought I came up with nine, and now we're
talking about even more than that.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, I don't know if Nause he's a new starter.
I mean somebody he was a starter. So somebody's going
to be the starter. Okay you're saying so, yeah, and
again some of the other line stuff was by default
yet last time, but there's been a lot of new
change A. Yeah, yeah, they didn't just they don't just
(45:49):
run it back, guys, all right, they don't just run
it back. Just because they fire the head coach and
burn the building down, that doesn't mean they're running it back.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
This is as aggressive as I think I've seen any team.
Yeah in the NFL, and quite.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Some time talk about like brand name players.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah, you're right, so this should be interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Interesting. Is not gonna be a problem, No, no, no,
for sure, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Let's get to another break that's going to do it
for our number one of the drive here on the
Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I will be back with
the hour number two right after this
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