HR1: Live from the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis

It's day 3 of the combine and SNR's coverage continues with Dale Lolley, Gerry Dulac, and Rob King.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back to the Indiana Convention Center, day three
of the NFL Combine. Jerry Doulac with you for the
next two hours, along with Dale Lawley and Rob King
of the Voice of the Radio Voice of the Steelers. Rob,
good to be with you. I missed you the first
two days. Yeah, name you were busy. I can't vouch

(00:23):
for that, but I'll take your word.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
For most of the time.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Omark Kahn, Sheldon White, and Dan Colbert there. So those
my those are my three duties.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, what uh, what little nuggets did you glean
from any of that conversation?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, you'll have to watch those on Stealers dot com.
I won't have time.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
I'm too busy.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I was hoping you'd give me the reader's digest version.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
You know, I think it's uh, it's you know what
the consensus seems to be at the do list, right,
you got to get the quarterback situation straightened out. You know,
somewhere along the line you have to get T. J.
Watt contract extension and uh at a July yeah, probably right,
and then you know what are you gonna do in

(01:04):
the in free agency, in the draft, and you know, again,
nobody's nobody's come out and said anything to me. But
it feels like whatever, what everyone's prognosticating defensive line? And
I know you were early on in reporting that defensive
line is going to be addressed. I wouldn't be surprised
if they addressed it in free agency and the draft.
I think they are if they go out and get

(01:25):
three guys at all at some point. And you know
what the need for and the desire for more explosive
players at the at the receivering and running back position.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
And what's funny, to a degree curious about you know,
having decisions is you know key ones quarterback, running back,
what you do with the receiving room. Yet, let's just
look at quarterback and running back. There's no clear cut
answer just yet, right, and that's something that needs to
be done and will be done right. March twelfth is

(01:58):
the start of free agency. I want to Adgendale that
those decisions will be made by then, although around the corner, yeah,
but you know, when it comes to running back, it
might be Okay, how much are we willing to spend
and how much is the is the one running back
in question willing to either accept or test the market
and we don't think the market is going to be

(02:18):
at a premium for running backs dale one because we've
just seen that be the case.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
And two, it's a good year for running backs.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah, and you know the running back situation, the situation
with running backs, I mean, he just saw Saquon Barkley,
Derrick Henry Green Bay went out and got.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
H Jacobs Jacobs, Josh Jacobs Jacobs.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
And that was because last year's running back class in
the draft was not great. It was not it was
not considered a deep one. It's the exact opposite this year.
This year is considered a really good and deep running
back class. I think mal Kiper said he had thirty
five running backs with a draftable grade on him. Well,

(02:59):
there's not be thirty five running backs drafted. That means that,
you know, there's gonna be some guys that may be
slipped through. The slip through kind of like Jayalen Warren did, right,
You know, you find those guys like that. And I
understand when people say you can find running backs anywhere
to a degree, that is true. What you can't find

(03:21):
are special players. You know, absolutely you can find a
running back, you know, but one of the things that
you see it all the time, will say that. You know,
people talked about the forty nine ers. They would go
out and they would just keep drafting running back, running back,
running back, running back. When did they really take off
when they traded for Christian McCaffrey, Right, that was the

(03:41):
big difference. They you know, a team that everybody pointed
to a same one. They don't They don't believe running
backs are important. They just draft, you know, draft Win
in the sixth round every year and he goes out,
runs for one hundred yards for three games and he disappears,
but they just find the next one. Well, then they
went and got Christian McCaffrey because they wanted that guy,
that guy who's special, and so you know, finding a

(04:02):
player like that would go a long way. I'm not
saying Christian McCaffrey, but finding a guy with that kind
of skill set, who has the explosion, who has the
ability to catch the football. Finding the next leve On
Bell would would go a long way for this team,
just to you know shore up. I mean, they're going
to run the football, that's what they want to do.
And if you're going to run the football as much

(04:22):
as they want to, run the football. It can't be
just one guy. You're going to need multiple.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
With a few exceptions, with few exceptions, your top tier
all pro players, your Pro Bowl type players, with few exceptions.
And Kevin Colbert always felt this and said this that
you have to find him on the first round. Oh,
there are exceptions, but if you were looking for that
type of player, you know, you know, a Derick Henry

(04:48):
or a Saquon Barclay, Najee Harris. There was a first
round pick who's number twenty four. But you know, if
you want that to expect to have that type of player,
you have to probably get them early. But you can't
stumble upon guy's second round picks. Len was a second
round pick.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
G even a lot of those guys, a lot of
those top running backs that you you know, I mean,
Henry was a was a high second round pick. Nick Chubb,
who before his injury was was maybe the best pure
runner in the league, was like the second or third
pick of the second round. Right, there's not that much.
There's not a lot of difference between being the twenty
fourth pick and the draft and the thirty fourth pick
in the draft.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, I think to to your guys point, the top
five or six running backs in terms of yarded just
you were all first or second round picks. And then
there becomes the inevitable drop off that Jerry just alluded to.
And I think that you know, uh look, look, teams
don't want to say stumbled upon, but I think most
teams would admit that there's some luck involved in getting

(05:43):
a jail and warn. I mean, yes, it's good scouting.
But again, we were talking about like this with Tom Brady.
You know Tom Brady, for example, sixth round draft choice. Hey,
great job getting him in the sixth round. Well, if
it had really been a great job, we would have
taken him in the first round, you know, because he
wound up being, you know, arguably the greatest quarterback of
all time.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
So and I think that there is it arguable. I
think it is really did you put ahead of him?

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, hang on it.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
This is a man who last night said, Jimmy Jimmy
Page is a system guitar.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
No, I didn't say that at all.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
So let me so let me, let me let me shift,
Let me shift back by by just telling.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Me you would be one of the forty nine people
on the Hall of Fame selection committee, who would say
that Tom Brady's not a first ballot select.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Of course, he's a first bout selection.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
I didn't say, you just said arguably, so the greatest argue,
the greatest of all tie.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I understand, Okay, I want to know who's great.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Okay, So so let me just say this real quick
and I'll get back to that discussion. I think that
when you look at a like Roman Wilson last year,
the perception is that he's gonna, you know, come right
in and be a contributor. Well, it happens, right, and
there's not There's no guarantee a third round receiver is
going to be the huge difference maker that you think
he's going to be. You've had some success obviously at

(06:57):
being able to do that, still remains to be proven.
So and and I think, you know, when I look
at the running back position, I look at defensive tackle.
The Steelers have come in the last couple of years.
They've made no bones about the fact that they want
to shore up the offensive line and shore up the
defensive line. Well, we know that. You know, trends happened
in the league. Look what happened to Philadelphia, right, They
showed up the offensive line, they showed up the defensive line.

(07:18):
They dominated the Chiefs in both those areas, and they
won the football game, and they won it. And then
and then, you know, okay, so that that's going to
put defensive line and maybe to premium with a little
bit of a copy gap. I wonder if the same
thing is going to happen at the running back position.
I think it's interesting I mentioned this last hour that
as we get, you know, further into these mock drafts

(07:40):
and maybe some of these guys are talking to personnel
here around Lucas Oil Field than around Indianapolis, that suddenly,
you know, Ted McMillan, I saw him going, you know,
sixth earlier, you know, I saw a mock draft for
the Steelers took up at twenty one, the receivers starting
to slide, more running backs shown up in the first round.
You think about the running back position. You know, Matt

(08:01):
had this stat and I know you and Matt have
talked about it. Dale a half a dozen running backs
with three hundred and more carries none of the year before.
And so now does that does that value go up?
Think about sa Quon Barkley getting a you know, carrying
the ball, touching the ball three times more than Jamar Chase,
and getting one third of the money in free agency.
So you just wonder if some of these things are

(08:23):
going to change and how that's going to affect the
draft and who's available. Otto Graham would would be on
my list of.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Of go ahead, Dale, I don't even want to have
the discussion.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I think, I think you. I think too. I think
to completely x out some of the early players. I mean,
here's here's what appen. Yeah, Bart Star was a great player, Champions,
Johnny Unitis, Otto Graham, uh Sammy Ball for talent. I
think that the best you can be and the best
you should expect to be, is in that inner sanctum

(08:59):
of the Hall of Fame. You know, think of the
Hall of Fame where the Hall of Fame there's a
separation between Hall of famers and any other player. But
even within the Hall of Fame, we know that there's
like you know, okay, there might be a little private
table right in the middle, right, well, you know Tom
Brady's at that at that table for sure, maybe at
the head of it. But he might go and he
might be dead of it. I'm not saying he I'm
not saying he isn't. I'm just saying, you know, every

(09:21):
every time a player comes along, especially in the air
and now at TV and ESPN and all the other things,
he's the greatest of all time. You know, Joe Montana,
Joe Montana is the greatest of all time. Now Tom
Brady is the greatest of all time.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, Okay, Son may have been until Tom Brady came along.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
He he may have been so or or or uh,
you know what happens now. We we had this argument,
and I think it's a fascinating argument in football more
to me, In football more than any other sport, you
need to be in the right situation with the right team.
And one of the examples I bring up two examples
all the time. Jerome Bettis I was in Saint Louis

(10:00):
when they thought he was washed up, and they traded
him to the Steelers for a second round pick, and
he went to the Hall of Fame. So what happens
if he stays in Saint Louis? Is he in Canton
right now? What happens if Steve Young talk about.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
The Channel Draft, Lawrence wasn't what was his name? The
running back? That's why they got rid of Jerome Well,
they yeah, they thought they could catch it. What was it?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Right? Was it? Uh? That was it was? It was Uh?

Speaker 3 (10:23):
That was a Rams guy. It might have been well
he was a Phillips. Oh maybe it was fed Lawrence
Phillips Hills. Yeah, because but why did they draft him?
Because they thought a twenty five year old Jerome Bettis
was washed up? Well they thought, yeah, they also thought
too that Lawrence Phillips was the answer.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Sure, but but why do you draft?

Speaker 3 (10:39):
But if you'd known that Jerome Bettis was the answer,
you wouldn't have ever drafted Lawrence film miss value right exactly.
But I'm saying what happens if he What happens if
he doesn't leave Saint Louis. What happens if Steve Young
spends his entire career in Tampa Bay and has never
moved to the forty Niners. What happens then? Is he
is he in the Hall of Fame? Is he a
first ballot Hall of Famer? I'm not sure he is,
so you have to be in the right situation. What

(11:02):
happens if if Dan Marino is in New England for
all those years instead of Tom Brady does he win
all those championships?

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Is considered one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
Right?

Speaker 3 (11:13):
But but are you sitting here right in his chair
next to me saying he's the best?

Speaker 1 (11:17):
If he's with saying Tom Brady's the best because he
deserves it. He has the numbers in the title.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Right But I think it's more nuanced than just saying
he's won the most titles because he won the most titles.
Give it, dott O Graham, Well we won seven of
him or eight of him?

Speaker 1 (11:29):
He went to Tampa Bay and won another one Brady,
So you know who was Was it because of Belichick?
It was because of Brady because soon as Brady left,
Belichick didn't do a whole.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
So how good a coach? How good a coach was
Phil Jackson? Did he win championship? Did Did Michael Jordan
uh And and Shaquille O'Neill and Kobe Bryant win championships
because of him?

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Or would they? Those guys have found a way to
win a championship no matter who was coach?

Speaker 1 (11:53):
To give him a lot of credit, sure, I'll give
him a lot of credit.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, you know it's funny. Larry Robinson, the great defenseman
for the Canadians. They talked about, Hey, Scotti Bowman won
what was it, four championships with the Canadians in the
nineteen seventies, and Larry Robinson said, yeah, and if someone
else was coaching us, we would have won six.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
So, you know, I mean, who really know?

Speaker 3 (12:12):
I mean, it's a I think it's a fascinating conversation
I always have, and I think it's I think there's
more nuance to it. But I you know, I think
the notion that today's player is absolutely physically superior to
the other player doesn't take into account what those players
would look like if they had today's training, if they
had today's workout facilities, if they've been going to camps

(12:35):
ever since they were six years old, or what have you.
So I think talent plays a part of it, you know.
Situation plays a part of it. Circumstance plays a part
of it. I mean, look, I don't want to take
anything away from Tom Brady. He's clearly in that inter sanctum.
What would happen if somebody else was in that situation
with those teams? Would they have won as many championships?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Those New England teams? Yeah, those New England teams didn't
have the greatest They never did. They turned him over
all the time. The time, it was one guy. They
build it around. So I, in fact, when the Steelers
would play them, I always felt the Steelers had the
greater roster, but.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
They didn't have And that Brady's right, and that was it.
That was the govermment.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
When when when I did the Hall of Fame in
twenty nineteen, the presenter for Richard Seymour got up and
started talking. He said, okay, so you know the Patriots
of the early two thousands won three super Bowls in
what was it, four years? And he said, we know
Tom Brady's going to go into the Hall of Fame.

(13:35):
We know Bill Belichick's going to go into the Hall
of Fame. At that point, I think Ty Law was
the only other player off of that, off of those
teams in the Hall of Fame. He said, so we're
supposed to believe here that it was Brady, Belichick, Ty
Law and a bunch of slappies that won three super
Bowls in four years.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
He said.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Richard Seymour was a was a key part of that
of those teams. He was he was you know, maybe
the best, uh you know three four defensive end in
the game at the time. You know, I voted for
the guy he didn't get in that year, but the
point was valid. Like I mentioned it yesterday. You know,
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers teams of the early two thousands
won to one Super Bowl. They've got like five guys

(14:16):
in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, it underscores the importance.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
It's all about the yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
And underscores the importance of that position. It's the most
important position in any sport right by. I don't even
think it's close. It's right goalie and hockey, starting pitcher,
in base it doesn't matter. It's not even it's not
even close. But I also think and I think that
the buy in the desire to win. You know, most
most top players, it's been their experience that they've won

(14:42):
because they've excelled and they've taken over right from from
pee wee to junior high school, the high school to college.
They've won because that person has taken over, that person
has done the things that has made him special. I
when when you look at I can't untie Belichick and
Brady because if you watch them play, you know Belichick

(15:04):
was very much of a matchup coach, right. He didn't
say this is our style and we're going to play
our style. He might come out one week and they
might hand the ball off sixteen straight times. They might
come out the next week they might throw a sixteen
straight times, and Brady bought Brady bought in for that.
But I don't think you can I don't think you
can untie those two. And you say Belichick didn't win
without Brady, Well he didn't have Brady. Of course, Belichick

(15:25):
also was a winning coach. We think about the Browns history,
what if they just kept Belichick? Where would they have been?
You know, certainly had it where they were whitch is insane?
A whole lot which they ended up.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
No, Because you mentioned this table, this inner sanctum. Who
who When they say who's the greatest football player of
all time? Who typically is the name that's at the
top or who? Would you say?

Speaker 4 (15:47):
Jim Brown?

Speaker 1 (15:48):
That's exactly right, It's always Jim Brown greatest player of
all time?

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, it was pretty good. Yeah, and he was older.
I mean, you know there's a you know guys that
guys that Lawrence Taylor would pop up on my on
my list of all time great. But yeah, I mean
Jim Brown was an older Think about Jim Brown today,
I mean what it was six one, two thirty something,
six thirty something.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
By comparison, in today's game, Jim Brown will be a
two hundred and seventy pound runner, right, he.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Would be that, he would be at least Derek Henry.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, he'd be Derek Henry. Yeah that's right.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, Yeah, let's take a break. I always have a
problem with edge rushers to a degree. I don't dispute
Lawrence Taylor's position at his ranking among his position in
league history, but I also feel like a lot of
those guys can be one trick ponies. They have what
they're objective, They want to get sacks, Mark Gast the quarter. Yeah,

(16:43):
so I'm always a little skeptical about annoying any of
them like the greatest in the game, even though, look,
I understand he got what he deserves, everything he has received.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
I think he was a great player. I just say
this real quick. I think there there comes a player,
a rare player in the history of any board that
revolutionizes that sport. Lawrence Tale, to me, revolutionized because he
became a now everybody wanted a Lawrence Taylor. So you know,
you think of Babe Ruth. For a couple of years,
Babe Ruth hit more home runs than any team in baseball.

(17:14):
Well within a few years, yeah, Babe Ruth was still
leading the league in homers. But now guys are He's
hitting sixty, but now guys by themselves are hitting forty five.
Because he changed the way he stepped up to the playo.
Instead of saying, I'm going to slap a single to left,
he said, what if I hit it over that wall
over there and trotted around the basis right. He completely
revolutionized the game. People caught up to him quickly, but

(17:35):
he still maintained that spot as the number one guy,
And I think I think Lawrence Taylor would have that
argument with him.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
The breadth of your knowledge in every sport just continues
to astound me. It's very impressive. He's very sincere about that.
For those listening at home, I could it take Frank.
It is day three of the EDVL Scouting Combine here
at Lucas Oil Stadium. We're broadcasting from Radio Row at
the Indiana Convention Center just right across the street. Lully,

(18:00):
Rob King and Jerry Doulc will be back right after this.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
You're listening to Fox Sports Pittsburgh and Steeler Nation Radio.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
We are back in the NFL Combine, Day three.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
The players get on the field today and get some
NFL Network coverage Dale and Uh, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
People love to watch the testing and the drills at
the Combine.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, oh absolutely, And you know it always kills me.
You know when when I would was still doing high
school stuff or whatever, you know, back in the day,
and you'd hear a coaches thought, well we got we
got four guys or five guys. You run for five?
I know, No, you don't, right.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, Bill Billy Callahan at Valley High School ran a
four to two five before he went the pit. Was
never time faster than four point five. Once he got
the pit, four two five, he ran a Valley Oh okay,
sure did.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
Yeah, that's combine record stuff. And that's what people are
tuning in to see. They want to see these guys
run fast. They want to see, you know, for example,
you know the Jordan Davis a couple of years years
ago at three hundred and forty pounds or three hundred
and sixty pounds whatever he was and runs a four
seven eight. You know, it's just the the inhuman factor
of it. These guys are different. They're not a different species.

(19:26):
They're still human beings, but they're a higher plane of
athlete and you want to see those great athletic feets.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, Kenneth Grant has a chance to be a bit
of a he's not working out here. Oh he's not
going to work out said he has a hamstering, so
much of him being a fruit tester here. Then yeah,
so maybe if.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
You're the students, maybe step on his foot for proto.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah, right, you don't want him work it out in
front of anybody, right, turn this into a Heath Miller situation,
and you know, because Heath was unable to work out,
you know, prior to his draft, and you just say,
watch the tape.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
We know he's a good football player, and we don't.
I don't know if they ever got forty time on
Heath Miller, but it was okay, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
It's okay.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Go way back to the Bill None days when he
when he stole the only tape available on John Stoats
and the other teams that couldn't get it they lasted
to deal with the fourth round was yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
That can't happen anymore, No.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
No circulate. Abduil Carter diagnosed with a stress fracture, but
his agent said today he's not going to have surgery
should he have one his own, which they typically do,
and he wasn't gonna work out anyhow.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I assume he'll.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Work out of his pro day at least I got
that indication for the story I read. But you know,
that's a guy who's likely, you know, he could probably
lay the money down, could be the number one defensive
player picked in the draft. I doubt number one overall
because those teams at the top would like a nice
little quarterback.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
It's gonna be an interesting you know, and and part
of the draft process that I always find fascinating. And
there's a couple of things. So you know, the Steelers,
they're gonna have a different board. I've always thought, going
back to Kevin Colbert, the Steelers have done a wonderful
job of having a plausible team before the draft, so
you don't have to take you know, you're not truly
taking the best player available, but you're taking the best

(21:12):
player available.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
At say, four different positions. You don't have to reach, right,
we give positions.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Indeed, yeah, it gives you the so instead of you know,
picking seventeenth and the top five edge guys are gone
and the guy you have ranked thirty one in the
draft is the sixth best edge guy. But you panic
and you need an edge guy. I do think that,
you know, in these combines there'll be one or two
guys that will jet up and go higher than maybe
the tape indicates they should go because some team will

(21:38):
fall in love well or whatever.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Vegas Raiders were notorious for that taking guy Darius Hayward
Bay Jump.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
If there's a guy that ran a sub four to
three the Raiders were taking.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Or the kid from Pitt Beskowski draft right way than
anybody thought.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Robert Gallery, right.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, you just need one or two of those and
to continue to give you a better chance.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Largely, what happens with that though, it's not necessarily the
teams changing their opinion on them. It's the draft crowd
changing their opinion on guys based on what they do
out here. Well, this guy ran fast. You know, the
teams know the guy's fast. You know, the guy goes
out there and runs a four to four instead of
a four or five. You don't necessarily well, he could

(22:22):
just jump from the third round to the first round.
That doesn't typically happen. But the draft knicks now'll catch
up on what the NFL teams already knew, Like, oh,
that made me start watching his tape more. Well, the
teams already did that. They already watched all the tape.
They've already you know, done all the background work. They
know all that stuff. So the guy goes, oh, he's
he's rising up the boards. He's not rising up NFL

(22:44):
teams boards. Their boards are pretty much said at this point.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, I think that's the case now for sure, But
it wasn't that long ago. I'd say, you know, twenty
years ago. Some the Cincinnati Bengals were notorious for it.
They a small scouting department, small right next to nothing,
and they it was basically Mike Brown, but they basically
drafted from the street in Smith's right right, and they

(23:08):
got let's goe because they always drafted these quote name
players and because they.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Heard the name.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Well, that's the way it was started in the fifties
when well, of course, you know, well then it was
even regionally.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
You know when Paul Brown was was running drafts for
the Browns, you know they'll just take these guys that
you know, these all Americans, greatest Americans.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Paul Brown's greatest draft is when he with the Bengals
with a start up franchise. Who was his first pick?
I forget his name, but it was a center because
he said, if you're going to start a team, you
might as well start with a center because he's the
one who staffs the ball. He drafted a center was
his first overall pick.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
You know, you talk about the about drafting and recruiting
was not as you know, as as fine tuned did
as is now used to tell the story about. You know,
he he wasn't sure where he was going to go
to college and he wound up a duke and it
was because his brother told the coach, yeah, I think
he can play. Like so that was his brother told

(24:05):
the coach, yeah I think Dick Groat can play, or
to coach his brother or something told the coach, I
think he can play. So that that got up a
scholarship to a little more a little more fine tuned
bit than that. Then my brother, my brother says he
can play.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
There's a lot of that though, Like you know, I
coach baseball now and I coach a eighteen and under
travel team that we go to college showcases, and I
get calls all the time on my guys from college
coaches ask hey, what's it, what's he like? It's the
same is this process. You know, you know, how's the family,
what's what's he like? Is he a good student? You know,

(24:40):
what's his demeanor like on and off the field? You know,
just that background, and you know, are they listening to
me necessarily in terms of recommendations. Probably not supplemental information,
but it's supplemental information.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
You do.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
You do your due diligence on these guys and you
try to make sure you get the right fits.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
And for the most part, that's what the combine is.
You know, they have an idea from the tape on
the field, who they like, who they don't, but they
come here and it's supplemental information. Maybe eye opening, it's
some drill, or they've got a medical or whatever the
case may be, but.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's all supplemental.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
A lot of it. The interview process is that's valuable.
But I do wonder if you know, like the Steelers
have made a point of saying we want Steelers type
of players. We've we've heard that again over the last
couple of years, I think, seeming to be I don't know,
re emphasized, but certainly been talked about more. And it
is part of that. And you know this is what
you know, you don't know for sure is part of that. Okay,

(25:33):
you know, uh, this this guy that we're thinking about drafting,
he wants to make sure he's the best shuttle cone
driller drill guy. You know, the competitiveness. We see that
in just in that drill as opposed to just talking
to him and saying, yeah, I'm a really I'm a
I'm a competitive guy.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
You know.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Uh so talked about that yesterday with the uh with
the with the wait listing, the bench press yeah, and
the year he did it. Guy's going back and forth
and you know, this one this does forty two repsold,
the next comes up, he wants to do forty three,
just enough to beat the guy that is his competitor.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Right for sure.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
I think it's uh, I think it's fascinating to Jerry,
you know, to be here and the first time you're here,
right first time I've been in indiapas and to talk
to Sheldon White in the pro scouting side, and Dan
Colbert and then Omar Khan of the pieces that you're
you're trying to put together, Like, I definitely think the
students will go into the draft so they talk about, uh,

(26:28):
you know, we need a defensive tackle, Well, we need
a quarterback. Well, they'll probably go in. My guess would
be they'll have two quarterbacks signed before the draft, at
least they'll have they'll maybe sign a defensive tackle. So
you would you'd go in and and obviate the need
receiver to that right wide receiver, maybe a corner so

(26:49):
that you don't feel like you have to reach, so
you can set up your board, I mean. And and
then the fact that you know what's available in the
draft is going to inform to some degree what you
do in free agency.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Right typically, And yeah, and so if you go in
a free agency and they do this all the time,
if you go in and you find your starter in
free agency, that lessens the urgency in a draft. So
it's like, okay, let's just use cornerback for example. And
let's say they go out and sign a corner veteran
corner just for argument's sake, and he's going to be
your starter, then you don't have to worry about cornerback
anywhere near the top of the draft.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
And but why receivers stop you from taking one that's
right later.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
That's what I'm talking about, So wide receiver, though you
sign one, you're still gonna take one early because of
the the the the dearth of talent in that room.
Defensive line wouldn't surprise me at all because I don't know,
I don't think they're gonna sign a premium lignement.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Maybe, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Going to stop them from drafting one high as well.
So yeah, there are but they use free agency to
help set up the draft or lessen the urgency in
the draft at a certain pace.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Right, And I do wonder, like, you know, could they
go could they totally prize us? So let's say in
free agency, you know, I'll sort you go out and
get b J Hill, right, a good solid rotational defensive tackle,
and he had Keanu bet and your top three defensive
tackles are gone. The running back Genti's gone. Ted McMillan

(28:16):
was the one receiver you wanted he's gone. Now you
just completely you know, uh, flummex people by taking somebody
at a position that's not of need, you know, because
because you feel that player is so good that we
had this guy ranked eighth in the draft and he's
here twenty one and it's not a position or need,

(28:37):
but we'll still take him.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
One of the things that that Matt and I always
do every year, and we just did it last week
before before we came out here, and it was a
Kevin Colbert thing that that he always talked about them doing.
We do our list, we'll come up with our twenty
one players that you know, if if in order, if
the Steelers are on the board, would they take them,

(29:01):
because you've got to have twenty one guys if you're
picking twenty one, that you would take at that spot. Now,
some of those positions you you lessen a little bit others,
and maybe you don't put the tight ends, for example,
on that list this year because you're not probably not
going to draft a tight end in the first round.
You just you know, you've got Friarmouth, You've got Darnelle Washington.
You're probably not going to be in the market for

(29:22):
one of those two tight ends that are going to
be potentially first round draft picks, and then you just
kind of massage that by the positions of need. So,
for example, while everybody has an Abdul Carter is the
number one guy, well, he wouldn't necessarily be the Steelers
number one guy because where's he going to play? You know,
that's that's a situation. But if to your point, if

(29:45):
it's he's on your list of twenty one and he.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Were available, extreme example, but yes.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
And those other guys and your other guys at the
positions of need are gone, well, okay, we got to
take this. We can't. We can't pass on this guy
because you know, he's just it's too great of a value.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
The past couple of years, the Steelers would always do
spend if not a week, two or three days with
however many people in their room doing mock drafts, and
they would do a mock draft. They stopped doing it,
and now to Dale's point, they're number twenty one. They
ranked the top the best twenty one players in the draft,
and that way they know they're getting one of them. Yeah,

(30:23):
and so they don't have to they just go down
and see who's there one of those twenty one has
to be there, got to be there, and they're going
to take them, right, and there might be.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
If there's seven of them available, then you start looking, okay,
could we trade back. We're still going to get one
of these seven guys are still going to be there
if we move back four spots, right, we're going to
get one of the guys that we that we thought
were one for sure, or one.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Of the twenty one. The counter of that is if
one of the twenty one is someone they have it, say,
for example, number six on our or even let's just
say more reasonable, let's just say fifteen, then you think, okay,
let's move up. And because we really like him at
a position of quote need for example, makea Fitzpatrick. The
reason they traded for MAKEA Fitzpatrick in twenty nineteen was

(31:06):
the year before that he was the number five guy
on their list, the number five overall player.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
He became available, why not go get him? Yeah, he
was the guy.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Ben's injury played into that too before.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
Yes, but people thought it was well, they're trying to
fix the team here because of Ben's injury. They're trying
to keep the winning streak alive. No, he was the
number five player that they had in that particular draft
the year before that, and they had an opportunity to
acquire him, so they did.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
So.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
The other thing, too, is that they I think they've
done a wonderful job last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I think their drafts have been very good.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
But they're you know, nothing's off the table, you know,
so this might be every the perception seems to be,
this is a great depth draft. There's a lot of
good players in the second or third round, and so
are a bunch of teams going to be looking to
trade down?

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Well? Is that an opportunity?

Speaker 3 (31:58):
Right, maybe you trade Maybe you're not going to get
as much trading down as you might in years past
because everyone's trying to trade down. Well, that might be
the perfect time to trade up, to your point, and
get that guy.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
When's the last time they traded down? They trade down
for Casey Hampton traded down for Casey ham the last time.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
Yeah, in the.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
First round, that first round?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, yeah, So I I I.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Never expect that to happen with them, because they have
their list. But right, and what But to your point
somewhat though, too, what I like about them is their willingness.
They've been very aggressive in free agency the last two years.
Omar Kahn when he was asked the other day, he says,
we treat free agency like we have the last two years.
That very aggressive and their but their willingness. When they

(32:38):
drafted Kenny Pickett, they were looking to move up if
they had to. Now I don't necessarily agree moving up
to get Kenny Pickett, but the point is they were
considering it, and they moved up to get two spots
to get Broderick Jones, and so they're there. They are
amenable to that every every draft.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
And I wonder, and I wonder if this would be
a better year to do that based on all the
teams that want to move down. Would you have to
give up a little bit less? Who knows to me?

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Because again, when I say need for a defensive lineman,
it's then you gotta find Cam Heyward, and you're only
gonna find him up top. Where was Cam number?

Speaker 4 (33:14):
Cam was thirty one?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Thirty one yeah in twenty eleven, right, yah? And so
but if because of that, if there's somebody who's dropping
and that position, because to me, that's now, this is me,
that's number one priority. Then I trade up. I don't know,
you go you don't go to Devin Bush route, I
don't think, but you move up if you like that

(33:35):
guy and go get them.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah. I think the question is where is the drop off? Right?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
So you toss a bunch of guys into a bucket
and you say, all right, there's no drop off here.
We'll take We'll take Ted McMillan, or we'll take you know,
Michael Grant, or we'll take Will Johnson, or we'll take
some of these players. But now to your point, if
it's it's creeping toward you, those guys are getting snatched up,
what do you do. You got to either move up
or you gotta move down.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
I think it was Daniels jerrem Ayah was talking about
this particular defensive line class and he said in last
year's draft he had twelve guys that he had a
grade on who he thought would be future starters in
terms of how he graded them. This year, it's twenty
four on.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
The twenty four future starters of defensive the defensive line ground.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
So how many how many our immediate starts, how many
of you draft do you feel can step into that way?

Speaker 4 (34:26):
There may be ten of those.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Guys this year draft, right right exactly. I mean it's
no question it's a strong year for it.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
So and some of that's also because you're getting older
guys coming out of college. You know, they're more physically
mature than they were you know when you were You
think about all the drafts that the Steelers had, you know,
in the early two thousands and that nature. I mean,
they were always taking guys because they were taking you know,
they were drafting so late. They were taking guys who

(34:51):
were twenty or just turned twenty one, or you know,
a lot of a lot of times it was a
you know, a true junior who was coming out of
the draft because you weren't going to get the ready
made prospects that were there at the top of the draft.
You know, you had to kind of guess where this
guy was going to develop down the road. Now because
you're seeing all these twenty three, twenty four to twenty

(35:11):
five year olds coming out, these guys are fully developed men.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
And the other point the.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Other thing too, and we have to take a break
of people forget A lot of people forget where they're
drafting from the success they've had in the first round
they're not drafting four, five, ten, twelve, thirteen on a
regular basis like a lot of teams. They're drafting twenty
and below. And yet they find these guys Cam Hayward,
Heath Miller at the bottom of the draft, big time players.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I brought this, It's why I laugh at Well, you
know they could have Somebody will say, well, they they
could have drafted Jalen Hurds into Chase Claypool. Okay, that's fine,
we get that. That's revision is history. Where's where's t. J.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Watt go? If you're redoing that draft? Where does Cam
he go? Right right?

Speaker 6 (35:51):
If you're you can redo the other side of the coin,
exactly exactly. We're gonna take a break. We'll be back
with a whole lot more from the NFL combine here
in Indianapolis. Jerry Doulack, Dale, Lolly and Rob king with
you until two o'clock and then I move out.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Rob.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
You're only here till one, right till one. Then you're
gone because I know you're busy. You got a lot
to do. Well, that's what you keep going.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
You were, you were, you were, you were laying in
bed thinking about that first couple of coffee when I
was on the air with west Euler.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Don't forget that.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I'm always working the phones. I'm always working the phones.
We'll be back right up to this. The tight ends. Uh,
we're meeting with the media this morning, and of course
the at the top of the group, and uh, a

(36:39):
lot of a lot of it focus on tight ends
now because of what we've seen in the past. You know,
with some of the guys, of course brock Bauer's success,
but Tyler Warren at the top of that list of
Penn State tight end. You know, you if somebody wanted
to call him a jack of all trade, you'd say, okay,
that's that sounds right. He's lined at h back, he's
lined at running back, he's lined at quarterback.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
He's been punted.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
So but difference is he's a master of all those positions.
But you know, the top tight end, and he's an
impressive kid too, and you know he has a chance.
I went back and looked Heath Miller was one of them.
Since ninety eight, only twenty three tight ends have gone
in the first round, but only four have gone in
the top ten. Kyle Pitts was the highest couple of

(37:22):
years ago.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Went number four.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Kellen Winslow was one of them two right before Ben
brought powers last year. Ye, no, he was thirteen. He
was out of the top ten, but only four went
in the top ten. And I think Tyler Warren has
a chance to be one of the top tens. Certainly
will be a first round there, but has a chance
to be a top ten guy.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
When I look at the draft, and you know, if
you're the students and you're looking at defensive line and
running back, we're just talking about the copycat league and
whether now some of those guys you're gonna get, you know,
snatched up the guys you really want at both those
positions defensive line and running.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Back before you get there.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
But you hope that, you know, I would think there
are positions like I can't see the Steelers taking an
edge in the first round, five or six of those
guys go. I can't see them taking an offensive tackle.
Although I don't think it's completely outside of the realm
of possibility. If an unbelievable guy, you're like, oh my gosh,
I can't believe he's I think, but I agree. I'm

(38:18):
just trying to make a little caveat here. I don't
think tight end is a position. But if this kid
was somehow close to you, and some other positions had
been snatched up, knowing how they'd like to utilize that position,
that you're going to see a lot more three tight ends,
and you're going to see three wide receivers.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Probably.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Well, we saw how much Arthur Smith likes.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Right, I mean, I don't think so. Again.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
My inclination is to say, hey, I would love to
see you know, uh, five edge guys and five offensive
tackles and two guards and two tight ends go. Because
now that shrunk that group down to seven at several
different positions, and they're not all going to be gone
by the time you pick.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
You know, Dale, when we're talking about ranking those twenty
one best twenty one players, you wonder if, whether subliminally
or not, that those best twenty ones don't include three
edge rushers or positions you know, or four quarterbacks even
though there wouldn't be four quarterbacks. You know what they're thinking, Okay,
here's our best twenty one, but we'll leave off maybe

(39:20):
a couple offensive tackles and intrust.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
I always do when I put together my top twenty one,
thought like, I'll.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Take yeah, your top twenty one Steeler related of course,
like the best players at those positions that you just
can't pass on.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
I mean, every draft has around fifteen players that are
are real first round picks. They'd be a first round
pick any year. This year, it's probably twelve that you
look at and say, these guys will be a first
round pick any year. And if one of those guys
is available to you, yeah, then you take them, even
if it's not the position in need, unless you know

(39:56):
a guy that you have at a position to need
is still there. But yeah, I mean you don't. You
don't leave off those guys. Now you may you may
not have the third best edge rusher on your list,
but at the top one we're happened to be available,
then yeah, you take him right now.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
I mean, you just you just start doing if you're
sitting at twenty one, you start doing the number game,
and first of all, there'll be one or two guys
selected ahead of you that you're like, we didn't even
have them as a first rounder, right that that's but
I mean if you start to think, okay, two quarterbacks
are gonna go, how many edges are gonna go? Dale
four or five.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
In this in this round this stud oh before the steels,
yeah around there.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Okay, so that's.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Five is an hour up to seven maybe two tight
ends an hour up to nine maybe a guard maybe.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Now you're at ten.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
So that means here are twenty one, I get.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, that means eleven guys, yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
Twenty one here. Okay, So we have cam Ward yep,
Travis Hunter yep, Mason Grant.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
So let me ask you this real quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Are you ranking him the way you feel they might go?
Or you ranking him your best or the Steelers?

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay, who you are the best? The best? Twenty one?
You're putting the high. Cam Ward has the highest grade.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
He would be the he would be my number one
quarterback and it's not even close.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
So if he's available somehow at twenty one, you take it.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Or does he have a higher grade than Abdul Carter?
You know what I'm saying. You're looking at him just
as a player who's going to be I'm also the
going in position of need.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Okay, right, okay, I got you sliding scale.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Yeah, so Travis Hunter would obviously if he were available,
you'd take him. Mason Graham, I don't know how if
he fits the defense. But he's a good, really good player.
I think you would take him. Abduall Carter was number
four in our list. Walter Nolan number five. Now that's
not where he ranks with all the draft knicks, right,
but he would be the guy there. Will Johnson, the

(41:52):
cornerback at of Michigan, would be on that list. Ashton
gentyyeh we had seven, Kenneth Grant, we have an eight.
Nine was Will Campbell. Again, you're the best offensive tackle
in this draft. If he happened to be there, yeah,
you'd probably take him. Tyler Warren was number ten on

(42:13):
our list. Eleven was Ted McMillan. Twelve, Derek Harmon, the
defensive tackle out of Oregon.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Thirteen.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
You had him that high. Huh yeah again because you're
you're ranking in need. Kelvin Banks the offensive tackle out
of Texas. You know, don't love him. Josh Simmons is
offensive tackle out of Ohio State. I think if he
tests out medically he'll be okay. Johnny Barron is a cornerback.
I really liked the slot capable corner.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Out of Tea. I've seen Mox have this. Steelers take him.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
He's good player. Matthew Golden at sixteen, Tyler Williams, the
defensive tackle out of Ohio State at seventeen, Luther Burton
at eighteen at Mecca AGEBA the wide receiver out of
Ohio State, I like time, and then at twenty Darius Alexander,
the defensive I'm out of a Toledo. And then at
twenty one, Arma Membo, who's probably a guard, but that's

(43:05):
why he's twenty one on this list.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think Acubon's is the perfect complement type of receiver
to George Pickens. And if eventually the way they're thinking,
maybe become becomes your number one, you know. But I
think he's a great fit for the way the Steelers play.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Interesting, Yeah, and I think you're you're you know, if
you're drafting twenty first, I think you're trying to You're
thinking to yourself, you know, yes, position to need, you
got maybe four of them going in.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
What is this guy's ceiling? Right?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
So if if a ceiling is a really good number
two quarterback, if a ceiling is you know, a nine
or ten sack valuable player, you know that kind of thing,
I think you want to outperform that in the draft.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
I don't let you will though necessarily in this draft,
just because again I don't think they're the stars in
thisarticular draft. Even a lot of the receivers are considered.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Well, he'll be a good number two rights those dominant players.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
There's no Justin Jefferson here, there's no Jamar Chase. You
know at the top of this draft.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Real quickly, before you take a break on the have
to let Rob go. You look, since Ben Roethlisberger went
number eleven in four only three times have they drafted
in the upper half of the draft. One of those
was trading up from twenty number ten spots to get
Devin Bush. The other time was they traded up twice
I mean two spots to get Broderick Jones, and the

(44:35):
only other time was Ryan Chase Eer at fifteen. Otherwise,
they're drafting twenty and below for the most part, the
lower half of the draft, and look at the players
they get down there. And that's why you have considering
all that the home runs that they've hit.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Their first average, if I remember correctly, the average draft
spot that they earned during Kevin Colbert's tenure was twenty four.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
That's probably that sounds about right when I'm looking, when
I'm looking at all this.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
And I think in the last two years, was looking
at last year's draft, and I would make the assertion
that every single player they took, certainly through the first
five rounds or four rounds went you know, the they were,
they were ranked higher than when the Steelers got him.
Beginning with Faltanu, then with Frasier, and then with Peyton Wilson,

(45:18):
Roman Wilson, h McCormick. All those guys would have on
anybody's draft board have been ranked higher. And so that's
part patients, that's part doing your diligence, I think that.
And again, four of those guys didn't even play last year.
For the most part, I think they've had two very
good draft classes under this new.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Regime as well.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Well, we're gonna let you go, right, Max Starks is
gonna step in for you. Always good to be with you,
my friend. I enjoy being love you, brother Dale, and
I will be back after this break. Max Starks will
join us and we will go up until two pm,
or at least I will, and then of course our
coverage radio coverage will continue all day until five pm
right here on Fox Sports Pittsburgh and Steeler Nation Radio