February 25, 2025 • 42 mins
Dale Lolley, Matt Williamson, and Max Starks wrap up SNR's coverage of the first day of this year's NFL Combine.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
And we are back.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am Dale Lolly here with the Matt Williamson. Don't
know where Max got off to now, but he might
be out grabs grab our next guest here, Max does everybody.
But yeah, interesting conversation here about the touch push there
in the in the previous segment. We'll see what else
comes out of it.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You know, I'm gonna make the kickoff thing was being
considered going back.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
They're gonna know they want potentially move it back. They
want kickoffs, and they're also talking about the potential of
you know, how to how to because the current role
is you can't attempt an on side kick now before
the find around that. Yeah, you know, honestly, if you
want to run an on side you're gonna have to
declare it because because you gonna do it. I think
(00:52):
that's one of the flaws in the new system. But
it's they've taken this surprise on side kick out of
the game. But if they're a way to still running
on side kick, I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Earlier in the game, I don't know why, why can't
I do the opening kickoff?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I want? Yeah, Well, for exat I think in the
in one of the playoff games. Somebody scored. Was at
Kansas City. Maybe this is in the.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Super Bowl, right before the end of the third quarter.
They scored when it was an obvious on side kickoff.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And they and they're you know, they're still down three
scores and they still had to kickoff deep because it's
on the fourth quarter. It wasn't the fourth quarter. Actually couldn't.
You could have to buy rules you can't do an
on side kick until the fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
But when you declare it, it's awful hard to recover one,
you know, but such as life, it's on a perfect
don't fall behind.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well. And the other thing is is, right, is that
what's the conversion rate before we change this? Right?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It wasn't very high.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It wasn't a high to begin with. So we're talking
about what ten twelve percent, And I mean it's like,
come on now, And like you said, I think, but
I think it also keeps teams from doing that type
of stuff and putting themselves in a situation. It's like
you're down three touchdowns, like, come on, you need to
play better offense. Yeah, right, and you're and you're already
giving the team that's already been scoring three touchdowns ahead
(02:09):
of you even better field position than they're already gonna
get because a lot of teams have decided we're only
playing seventy seventy percent of the field in the first place.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But we saw in a stealer Super Bowl surprise on side,
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wish that still existed.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, it would be nice, But like you said, it's
that once in a while shot in the arm trick
play that comes out versus we're talking about week twelve.
You know, you're playing a non con you know you're
playing a non division, non conference opponent, and you're down
and you're trying to do this stuff. It's like, Okay,
this game is already bad. Let's not make this game worse.
(02:42):
So you're protecting against the Jaguars and the and the
Panthers of the world from doing.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It, from doing dumb stuff. Yes, we don't do that
in the off season though, and we could see some.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
It's not something that you're standing on the table for
either way, exactly. I do wish the surprise on side
was at least an.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
All yeah, or if you say you can't enact it
till the second half of games, right, you can give
him a little bit more lea or halfway through the
third quarter, we can open it up right once again,
open to interpretation. I don't think we take it away,
but I think once again you can tweak it right.
This has been the first year, and this is not
supposed to be a failed proof. We've put it in.
It's perfect all the way, but there can be adjustments
(03:19):
that made along the way that can make it a
little bit more equitable. Say I'm down ten points and
I just want to surprise them. You know, we're getting
we're getting out of opportunities, and this team is very
good at running and possessing the ball. Maybe want to
steal a possession here, because we're not gonna get it
on a defense, on an interception or a turnover, So
at least try something different. I think they could open
it up a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, the problems just have to declare it now because
then they have the line different And yeah, all that
is common and okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, I wish I would have asked when we had
Ramote Foster on earlier today. And of course Romone now
in a media personality in is that the right correct
term for him? Now?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah? Yeah, he is a personal media questionable.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But he's in Nashville now, and of course the Titans
have the number one overall pick in.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This year's draft and a new GM and a new
GM with a second year head coach. I mean a
lot of stuff going on there now.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
When we had Greg Cosell on, he said that he
feels cam Ward is a franchise type quarterback, the creator, creator,
and elevator. And yet I get the feeling that the
Titans aren't going to use that first overall pick, not
on a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And I don't I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I don't think that when it all is said and done,
I don't think they're going to use the first overall pick.
I think they trade it.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, because they need, because they need they need a
lot of help because first of all, yes you can
add cam Ward, but you got to address that offensive
lind the office a line with garbage last year, like
two good guys, and it's like one and a half.
And they still they still are in that first four
years of their NFL experience that you don't they can
still go either way. You know, they could be good
this year terrible. That Yeah, so you need that. You still,
(05:06):
I would argue, you need a top tier receiver. Oh yeah, yeah,
you know, and I think you need an edge rusher, right,
you know, So there's so many things that they need.
I don't think quarterback. You know, you want to be
able to put that quarterback out and PLoP them right in, right,
Ben Roethlisberger style.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Everything else is built around, you know, the team except QB.
And so when Ben came in, he was a final
missing piece for Tennessee. There's so many holes that they
have to fill. They need volume right now. And so
that's why I think you have to trade out of
it because that number one overall picks valuable, especially when
we just talked about five or six teams that don't
(05:44):
have a starting quarterback right now. For that squad that
would be willing to wager the future to get a quarterback,
whereas I think Tennessee New GM a little bit more
of a timeline.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
He's like, well, we can kick that can down the road.
If we get everything else in place, then we can
bring in the And.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Sorry you kind of said it. You know, it's a
first your GM second year head code. Yes, you would
think their seats not burning hot yet either. You know,
they could probably go another four or five wins season
and be fine.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yes, and get another high round draft pick.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Again, Yeah, and end up going back into the quarterback
market with a better line and maybe a better receiver,
et cetera, And a.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Lot of con tracks become available in free agency for
quarterbacks a lot better next year.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And if they're stuck there, maybe they do take Carter
or Hunter and are fine with it. And that's a
building block. But just history and my hunch is Wards somehow.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Will go first overall.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I believe so Giants will trade up, Raiders trade up grade.
Raiders are the number one team that I look at
is we've got to go get something because we've seen
what terrible quarterback players look like an O'Connell Gardner minshew.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
We're also we're also in Vegas, yes, and the only
people who come to our games are the opposing thing.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
And division Pat Mahomes in our division justin Herberts and
our vision. Bo Nicks just went off right as a
rookie against us, So we need that star power, name
power to combat the other three that I'm going against
in my division, whereas other divisions don't have to worry
about that. There's not that large a concentration of quality quarterbacks.
I'm not gonna say because Pat's great. Justin was good. Obviously,
(07:23):
he took a step back with the Martin you know,
with the Morning Weeks system and everything, you know, and
it's more run based, so he didn't really have the
numbers that we're used to seeing from Justin. But Bo
was a surprise. So now it's like, well, three teams
got a quarterback and we're the only one left left
out in the dirt. So they have to be aggressive.
The Jets have to be aggressive as well.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And I don't think Cleveland. I don't think Cleveland's in
that situation where they need to go get quarterback either.
They have too many needs. Yeah, especially in so many
other they're gonna trade Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah yeah, that's now they're.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Saying they're not going to but he's also saying he's
not gonna play.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And we've seen what that pressure looks like right from
other teams. So this is the trick.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Warden Cleveland next year, it would be a disaster.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh, it would be horrible.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Before is talking about retiring, they're gonna have to you're
talking about trying to ruin a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, it would be a David Carr esque Yeah,
if you've got a quarterback in there now, you need
to go get a veteran that doesn't mind being a
meat grinder. Go go sign Jameis Winston back again for
another year and deal with it as you build. But
finally are having some draft capital now, you know, Yeah,
they're not and they're not in cap hell anymore, you
know what I'm saying. So so yeah, so I think,
(08:28):
but I think Jets Raiders. Absolutely. I would say the
Giants too, just because yes, the is so hot. Yeah,
I would say, you're absolutely right. I forgot about the
Giants and how could I forget anything in New York
that's not Buffalo pretty much? So yeah, all of them,
all of them need a quarterback, and they're the ones
that the Tennessee is looking at like, Okay, what can
(08:48):
I what can I fleece you with? Yeah, to get
to get more resources.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
And I don't think it'll be the Panthers DJ Moore,
Bryce Young trade.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
That was all I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I don't know if you'll get that much more this year. Yeah,
but you'll get or.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Even like Strubisky San Francisco trade right right, move up
one spot move up one spot and you just absolutely
decimated the Bears by that. You know, it's not going
to be that, and and so I think when you
kind of look at it, but it needs to be
something commensurate to where they can go back to the
well in day two a couple of times, because, like
you said, the value is going to be in day two,
(09:22):
like that's where the big movement, the big plays are
going to be made. It's not in the first round
this time. Because nobody has multiples like they've had in
years past. We're like, oh, I got three to play with,
and they're at the back end. You know, I got
Philly's pick or something. You know, it's not that or
or like last year the Dolphins lost a pick. So
therefore the thirty third pick became even better when we
(09:42):
got you know, the Chicago Bears in that situation, Yeah,
the quarter pick two years ago. So you know, it's
not like that. So I think, you know, for them,
it's going to be Okay, how far back in the
top ten am I moving? And then what else am
I getting day two out of this deal? Because the
Titans need volume, they don't mayb they don't need quality
right now.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So we could see a situation. And I want to say,
when we've seen some of those picks get traded in
recent years, it's been well before the draft. Yeah, it's
been like pre free agency.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's usually happened like next week, right, Yeah, because they
talk about it here. Yeah, they talk about it here
and they and they get everything finalized because you have
all the decision makers here, so it's like, hey, we'll
just wait till it seems proper. It's a little lull
in the day boom drops in the facts, right, or
email or for whatever they do nowadays. Yeah, yeah, you know,
whatever transmission is needed through the league office, like send
(10:39):
in your request and then send in that, hey we've
agreed on this both side, blah blah blah. But yeah,
that that'll usually happen next week. I don't think this
this goes to March twelfth, And I definitely don't think
this happens in April before the draft on the clock, Yeah,
exactly right, and then we'll know who the number one pick.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Us and then we'll know. Like I said, I think
cam Word does go number one overall, but I just don't.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Think it because here, because Tennessee is not going to
stay at number one and draft up Dual Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
If they could move the three. Yeah, but then the question,
because you know, just does Cleveland take him? Okay, maybe
maybe not. Are you happy with one of the other guys?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, exactly, I mean are you happy with and and listen,
there's still some good things because once again, Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Guess what. Cleveland has a lot of issues.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And if they went with a quarterback like you said,
they're going to ruin him because they don't know what
they have or don't have and how it's going to look.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Because what history says they'll do it anyways, that's true.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Do that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Don't do that. It's like, hey, hey, I got to
touch it to see if it's hot burn.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like if they take Sanders, I mean, what do you
I mean to me?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That would be catastrophic.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And that's why our fans should be like doing a dance.
Oh god, if they take sand You're like, yes, we're
doing because he has no weapons, he has nothing to work.
That's why I think Shadur is going to be in
Las Vegas, right, Vegas does nothing if they don't, like,
if they don't move to number if they don't move
to number one, they just take them. They just take him,
and then they could also address the other mountains of
issues that they need, right because you don't. You lost
(12:17):
Christian Wilkins's third game in the season and you had
no defensive interior, so you need it. You need an interior,
D line, you need so you can't afford to really
give away too many resources. And you're one with Pete Carroll.
And I don't think Pete's has that appetite like, hey,
whatever falls to us, that's what we take. I think
that's how they're going to be seventy.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Three years old. He's not in this for the long run.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
He is, he's in Vegas, but he's not at the tables.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
He's didn't buy a house. He's renting.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, he's renting a house. And like you said, and
another good point, Tom Brady's also in there. Yeah. And
when you're talking about a guy who will see in
tangibles in late round talent to be able to say, hey,
that's the guy we need in here, and he's not
necessarily Shaduur Sanders or him, that's also another thing to
play into it. Let's build everything up because I guarantee
you Brady wants to wants to have the pieces in
place if he's going to commit his name to a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Excuse me, I find it so interesting at this point
end of February, there's really six teams that don't have
a quarterback, including the Steelers. Yeah, but the Steelers are
the only ones that are good. Yeah, and they're like,
I mean, they're a little different than the rest. They're
not perfect, but they're a playoff team. They're a perennial winner.
They're not the Titans, the Giants, the Jets, the Browns,
(13:28):
and the Raiders.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
We played five quarterbacks in two seasons and got to
the packs both times. Right, it's pretty crazy, right, Right?
That doesn't happen now. Listen, Cleveland did it in one
year and that was only because of Joe Flacco. But
when you think about it, to have sustained success, and also,
I know people hate hearing it not a losing season
an eighteen years, almost two decades of not going below
(13:52):
five hundred and yes, for a majority of that, we've
had a Hall of Fame quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger. But
to do it the way that they've don it the
last two years with fus, with new guys, with rookies, with.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Everything, playing one of the league's most difficult schedules, and
each into.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
The toughest and in the toughest division in football. Like
there's something to be said, Like you said, not not
all these things are built the same. Yeah, it's like
it's we need it. We want it for stability and
for long term success because you can't play the quarterback
carousel forever and we have nobody under contract. You need
some stability there. But at the end of the day,
(14:29):
it's not the priority because you're still going to get
good played. Now. The problem is, you know, as Wolf
will say, you know we have fat and sassy fans, right,
you know we've enjoyed success and we we and we
want it. We want it to look a certain way.
We know we don't want to just get there.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
We need to be the Chiefs. Don't be winning Buffalo right, Yeah,
exactly get it, right.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I get it, I get it. But the fact that
you know, you only have fourteen of those thirty two
going in every year, and if you're taking away this
thirteen out of thirty one that have to compete for
the and we're kind of slotting ourselves in there year
in and year out. It's like you just wanted to
see that additional because now you want to see the
next step, which is success in the playoffs, right at
least one win. I want to talk about and real quick.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Last offseason was so unique because Wilson fell out of
the sky and caused the league minimum. Yes, I mean
just in terms of what you've invested and fields next
to nothing too.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And gave us a salary cat that we have now
to be more aggressive. That was a rare offseason opportunity.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I want to continue to touch on that subject in
the next segment. We'll do that when we return. He
is Max Starks. I am Dale Lolly. That is Matt Williamson.
And this is the Drive on the Steelers Audio Network
on Steelers Nation Radio. We are live from the NFL
Scouting Combine here in Indianapolis, day one of the event.
We'll be back with more right after this. And we
(15:50):
are back. I am Dale Lolly here with Max Starks
and Matt Williamson at the NFL Scouting Combine here on
Steelers Audio Network. And uh, well, guys, I mentioned we
were talking about fans and teams being bad and things
of that nature. And I know a lot of people say, well,
you know, just blow it up and start over. Here,
(16:10):
blow it up and start over. Steeler fans would not
tolerate going four and thirteen. No, they just would not
an embarrassed week after week. Yeah, right would? You could
talk all you want. So that's how you get a quarterback.
Here's the thing. If you won six games this year,
(16:31):
you're not drafted in the top ten.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
No, you've got to be bad, bad, to be historically terrible, yes,
which we're trying to think of the last time the
Steelers went below six victories, it wasn't in the twenty
first century.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
It was nineteen eighty seven. They won five games.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
See there, you gotta hope Joe Burrow comes out that year,
exactly right. And I was five years old when that happened.
So just think about what we're asked. What you're asking for, right,
whether it's blow up the coaching staff, blow up the personnel,
you know, trade trade away all this stuff, forced cam
In to retire, whatever it is. You don't want that
(17:10):
type of situation going, right, And especially when when you're
always in the conversation like it's tough to not be
in the conversation like, could do you want to be
the Carolina Panthers right now? Right?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Right? You do you?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Heck, I'll even go as far do you want to
be the Arizona Cardinals? Right? And that that's that's a
seven win team and it's getting better.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
It's a little better.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Incrementally, but they haven't been truly truly competitive since Super
Bowl fifty and that was a one shot year, right.
You know, you brought Carson Palmer in and you found
a guy because he was on the he was on
the couch, just like Joe Flacco, right, he was on
the couch. There's no couch quarterbacks right now to bring
in that will give you that magical one year. And
(17:53):
the last time was our Super Bowl forty three. We're
at fifty one, fifty nine. You know what I'm saying, Like,
we have to think about those things. We have to
think about those things. And people they say it because
it sounds sexy, But you can end up with Josh Rosen,
Oh yeah, easily because you're not getting number one overall
and that guy doesn't either, and that and that guy
(18:14):
doesn't hit. I mean, we can talk about the Ryan.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Leafs of the world, and we got to relearn how
to win. Yeah, and that's the thing anything that was
built in the expectation.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And then by that also that means you have a
young roster and if they don't know how to win,
you don't have a cam Hayward and tej we could
talk to you as you traded them. You traded them
all the way you got rid of them, then you
went cheaper, and you went you went younger to.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
All their contracts are up at the same time. Yeah,
and you won't be able to keep them when they're
in their prime, and then you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, like
it's stuck with me.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Dale.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
On the way down here, we're driving down with west Yuler,
who hosts a show of course with Arthur Modes, and
he said, you know, to quote Modes, basically, he's like
one year in Buffalo we won seven games, and they
thought that was like winning the super Bowl compared to like,
if Steelers win seven games, they has fallen.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Right exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
I mean like that's how Yeah, it was twenty years ago.
But when I was in the war room with the Browns,
Phil Savage would say a prayer and then he'd say
how do we beat the Steelers. That's how we started
the war room conversations like they were striving to build
what was already in place. And yes, you haven't won
a playoff game in a while, but that's still is
the foundation.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
The Steelers have not had a losing season since the
year you were drafted. Yes, So basically in your NFL lifetime.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Being associated with this franchise, I've never known what a
losing year is like never.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And that means something that means the guys in that
locker room there is an expectation like, hey, six wins
isn't going to be tolerated. We're all seven wins isn't
going to be tolerated. No, that's not gonna happen, right right.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, I mean that. And that's the other thing is
that you don't know, like you have to go back
to somebody who's a fans is eighty seven to actually
ask them. And when we think about it, the roster
that we have right now wasn't born. Nobody was born
on that roster back when the last losing season was.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That just goes to put it in perspective.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So what you're asking for is something that is a
near historic moment to happen to be in a position
to maybe maybe drafted guy because we already talked about it.
Quarterbacks don't come out. You look at the preseason, Hey,
who's supposed to be this half of them? Like, I'm
a stay in college because that's what I'm making three mil.
I taken this draft. I'm the fourth best defensive tackle.
(20:34):
I'm the fourth best quarterback. I'm not making as much
as I'm making as being the number one guy in
this I'm gonna be a number one cap.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I'm gonna be the tenth pick in the draft. I
don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I'm not doing I'll stay for another year and wait.
And they're kicking the can down the road. So you
anticipating that this bad year is gonna also culminate with
they got to come out and this is the best
guy available, and who's gonna jump you into process because
somebody else can always be worse. Because here's the thing.
Can City Chiefs guess they left frog that Arizona Cardinals
(21:07):
team to get Patrick Mahomes and then they ended up
having to take Hassan Reddick when they thought they had
Patrick Mahomes falling to him. That can also happen as well.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
That's what I was going to say, is I look
at the league right now, and I see four elite quarterbacks.
Two of them happened to be in this division, yes,
and Mahomes and Allen. Of course, Chiefs were a playoff team,
went up and got their guy a year too early.
The Bills weren't great, but he wasn't the first pick
in the draft, and he had a lot of questions coming.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And they were the team that traded to pick right
that the Chiefs Hughes Patrick Mahomes, and he was.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Wildly inaccurate for a year or two as well. I mean,
Alan had a lot of work to do, and but
but you didn't know what he was going to bring
to the table that he was going to sit down
and actually take. Because that's the other thing, when you're
doing this mental background check, you still don't know what
you're getting. Even after all of the background checks, you
don't know what that guy's thinking in his head and
he can't control it. Lamar.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
He goes to a quality organization, granted, but he's the
end of the first round and they took before.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Went to this almost went to the second round. Like
if Baltimore doesn't jump back into day one, Lamar sits overnight.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
And they preferred Hayden Hurst on draft dy. Yeah, I
mean that's clear. So the four, only one of them
was a bottom out team and they're that organization's fighting
some rough waters right now too. They also weren't in
the playoffs this year, you know, you know they're all
that money they put in. They a winning culture. I
don't know, there a glimpse there. They look like it.
And here's the thing, most of my lifetime, they haven't been.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
The two of those four that we're talking about as
being elite quarterbacks still have lost to the Steelers at
that time, right, they still have. They still haven't consistently,
like like Lamar got two consecutive wins in the first
season in the same season for the first time ever
since he's been there, right right right, you know what
I'm saying. So we're talking about it, and Joe Burrow
still can't beat them, beat the Steelers at home, you
(22:48):
know what I'm saying. Like, so these teams are still
split in fifty fifty with the Steelers. When we have
quarterback flux or aging quarterback, they still can't completely topple us.
So we're still a problem by the rest of the
feet off the doing.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, here's the thing. I would understand the idea that
you blow this whole thing up and let's start over.
If they didn't have cap space, they have. They have
sixty million dollars in cap space, this according to over
the Cap. And the key thing is they have forty
five thousand dollars in dead money on the salary cap.
Next it's by far the fewest amount of dead cap space.
(23:25):
That's if you start trading away the TJ. Watts and
the Cam Haywards, now you're taking on dead cap space
and all those things as well, and all of a sudden,
now your salary cap gets screwed up. Then you become
the New Orleans Saints.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yes exactly, you become Mickey Loomis and you're like looking
for dollars in your pockets. You're picking up pennies off
the ground, right. You know at the grocery.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Store they have guys they can't cut, yeah, because it
costs them more money against the cap. Because they've just
kept kicking the can down earth, they went for it.
You know, the Cleveland Browns this past season, the last
four seasons have went for it and what did it?
He got him one playoff win. Yeah, and it got
them the second pick in the draft this year.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And in this past draft, the Browns picked fifty fourth.
That's the first pick they made. The year before that,
it was in the sixties. The year before that it
was in the seventies. So they have no rookie contract
stars to even build around you. Now, finally, I give
the Browns credit. They have a ton of draft capital
for this year, partially because they stunk and they earned it,
but they traded a Marii Cooper and they mean they
(24:27):
added a few other decent picks. This would be the
first draft they've had a real draft in four years.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And even then, now you're dealing with a really really
young roster that you don't know is going to come
together or not right, So you're still not competitive this year.
You're thinking about two three years down, which.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Is why Miles Garrett doesn't want to be there anyway.
He's like, Irish, I'll be thirty two and we're we're
gonna be still picking in the top ten. Yeah, what
are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
And I'm not picking on the division, but I could
see a scenario one year from now where Burrow's looking
at the Bengals going I feel the same way, Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Does you know, like there's not enough money you could
throw at me? Right? Like this is not right? Yeah,
exactly right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I'm tired of spinning my wheels here, Like what are
we doing?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah? Yeah, we need to just go and be aggressive
or just let me go. I'll go somewhere else and
be picks or whatever. Right, Yeah, I can get that
for you. Hey, it'd be a nice parting gift for
you guys. But let me go to the NFC South
and let me revive my career. Let me go to
Tampa Bay or someone. Hey, it worked out for Baker Mayfield,
you know, and Derek Carr not so much. But I mean,
(25:30):
you know, you go to a different division that doesn't
have as competitive go to either of the South's AFC
or NFC. It's wide open and if you're a quality quarterback, yeah,
I want to play in that because I'm like, I know,
I I know I could be the class of the
division very quickly, you know what I'm saying. Like Indianapolis
would be an attractive place, you know, for for quarter
(25:51):
around yea, yeah, because it's like, hey, I gotta go
against Jacksonville. Houston is gonna be a little bit of
an issue, you know. And then I got Tennessee who
still doesn't know his way up. Easy division for the
n and I put a little contract rider in there.
If we win the division, I get a little bump
as well.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
See.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I don't think the Browns look at it this way,
but if they are smart and they could really self
analyze themselves, Miles Garrett's doing them a favor because it's
time to start over. I mean for them, they're in
such bad situation because of the Watson trade, the worst
trade in history. God, they have to sell all their
assets and start over. And hope those guys come together.
And I'm never a fan of tanking or trading your
(26:27):
best guys.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
And not trying to win. But they they brought it
to themselves because the right You went for it at
the at the absolute worst time you could go for it.
You push all your chips and you don't always win. Yeah, exactly. Listen,
Vegas's lights aren't on because of all the winners. Absolutely,
you say you were, you were one of the light
bulbs out there.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
The Rams push their chips in with Stafford and Hit.
Great when the Bucks did the same thing with Brady
and Hit. But there were seven other teams those years
that did and didn't. Aaron Rodgers with the Jets, Brown's
time and time again, Saints every year, you know, like
most don't.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's no coincidence to two teams with the least amount
of cap space as we sit here right now are
the Saints and Browns. They're the most miserable organizations. Only
they can't do anything. They're gonna have to cut guys
just to get cap compliant in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
And the Watson things not going away.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I mean, he's guaranteed money, you know, Yeah, they finally
have draft guaranteed his contract. Garrett's doing them a favor.
They can trade him and get stuff and start over.
Maybe you can build something in a couple of years,
but trying to put band aids on this bullet wound
is not gonna help well.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
And granted you also have a lot of contracts that
will come up the future right within a two to
three year space, but it's like, but if we get
a good base in there, and we're now not reaching
and not trading and sacrificing. I can go and draft
and now I can actually build something for the future,
rebuild no line.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
YEAHO Carter fills in for Garrett and it's not the same,
but it's it's something.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But people thinking that the Steelers are in that kind
of situation and that they should therefore they're trying.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
To equal strive to be in that situation.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, nobody Browns are willing, you know, Miles Garrett once
out of a Cleveland. The Steeler should do that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
With t J.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Watt, No, they're not in the same they're not even
in the same stratosphere.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
No, A lot of it's financial close to those fans.
I don't like to say this often it's dumb.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It is plump.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's plumb, dumb.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You don't trade, you don't trade.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
You know people, you're just a blind, blind fan at
this point. You know what I'm saying, because you do.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Maybe you did it on madd I did it on Madden.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, Dynasty Mode. Yeah, it's like there's there's no harm,
no foul, right, But this is the real world with
real people that you can't control like a video game.
And people think that they're listen a lot more access
and information is available, right, so people feel more informed.
But informed and smart are two different things. Yeah, right,
(28:52):
And when you're dealing with real money, real issues in
this type of situation, it's different because there's no harm,
no fou. I can just reset the video game, right,
or I could just not read that article that that
that shows me the rationale and I you know, we
can all get information that makes us feel good. That's
why we love the combine. Right. There's metrics that you
can put in your favor to talk you and convince
(29:13):
you into anything. But at the end of the day,
does it fit And that's where hopefully the rationale. Listening
to informed individuals like the ones on SNR, you know,
and understanding what this is gives you a better place
to understand that being competitive year in and year out
and being a little bit short of competitive versus starting
back at the start line is not where you ever
(29:34):
want to go.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like things, It's like you're getting closer and then all
of a sudden you get down the show. All right,
we're starting over from scratch. Yes, well, yeah, I'm neveritely.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Planned to want to hit the shoot, you to hit
the finish line, You want to hit the.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Ladder, you definitely want to you can speak to and
this is a human business. You start doing those things
and then you're like, well I got it now, I
finally a bunch of cap space. I can go get
free agents. Free agents don't want to play for you.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
If you're you suck, nobody wants to come right. If
you're cool with sucking, I'm not going. And nobody way
over payment.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Nobody thinks about what kind of message, For example, trading
a guy away like TJ Watt sends to the rest
of the locker room, mister Fitzpatrick or.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Walk up to Cam Hayward and be like, yeah, we
just ditched TJ. Watt for a second round pick. Oh
yeah yeah, Well like.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
You're you're you're you're eroding the morale of a team. Yeah,
Like when you look up to guys, I don't want
to see that guy leaving, right, and I get hey,
when you're old, you're old. That's a whole different story.
We could talk about the over thirty and the analysis
that goes into the father yeah, bah blah blah blah.
But don't trade a guy that's in his prime and
(30:42):
tell me that you're doing big brother.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You know, yeah, trade him because you know what am
I Yeah, my role model, you.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Know exactly that that that guy helped me in this
line and another thing. And that's kind of what the
Steelers have kind of strugg They've held on to leaders
a little bit too long. But it's never been we've
gotten rid of them too soon, right, you know what
I'm saying, Like that's never been the issue you and
but they've kind of earned it. Yeah, you know right,
there's there's something to be said about that, right, that
does put you in cap cap strap trying to hold
on to a leader that's not you know, contributing to
(31:11):
the level that you want and that's why you're drafting matters.
But you want them in the system because the culture
and what culture means so much. It means so much,
and the standards that are set mean a lot. And
that's what people don't realize, Like you have to have
someone adjacent to that winning culture to then tell that
oral tradition, right, how we did history back in the
(31:32):
old timey days, right, you passed oral tradition down. And
when you have that gap, we've seen it offensively, like
there was Joe Green, Yeah, and the fact that you
saw that Joe green around is a blessing, but how
many more years is that going to be around? Now?
You're gonna need the Bens the Troys of the world
to come back around here and be like those seventies Steelers. Right,
You're gonna need sadly our class you know, to be
(31:55):
around there because if the further you get away from
those championships is the tougher you get to try and
resemble that and we and you need to have some success.
But blowing it up and starting back from the beginning,
you're not gonna get any alumni back. You're gonna lose
that locker room, right, And then now we're gonna be saying, Okay,
now we do need to go get a new head coach.
Now we do need to go get a new g
Then now we're in we're repetitive cycle, and we're looking
(32:16):
at the guys right across the state line like, are
we now Cleveland Exactly? That's what you turn into. We
will be an expansion franchise that comes back after being
hauled off in the middle of the night. And t J.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Watson at the end of the year, he's like those
guys that have rings have a different are about them.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
To come back.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I know I want to be one of those guys
because I see how special it is.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Mel Blunt walking by, you know, like, well, yeah, Jerome
Bettis walks in, You're like, holy crap. You know what
I'm saying like that, that those things matter, and.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
There's every generation. Those guys don't get Joe, but they
remember the generation.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, they know the mystique of mean Joe Green, right right,
you know what I'm saying. So, and you see him
next to championship trophies on the walls when you walk
by Cleveland, how many and how many Super Bowl trophies
they have in their offices?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Zero?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Hey, how many does the Arizona Cardinals have in their office?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
It'll be zero?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Right? You walk past those six every day. Yeah, I
gotta know, you're like, hey, stand up a little bit straighter,
Like shit, I need I want to get number seven
up there.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
It looks and it's possible to do it here it is,
you know, like it's way.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Easier than a lot of other players. A rough year
of the Browns.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
But I didn't think for one chance we had its
possible to put a Super Bowl championship out there one minute.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And even for the Jets who have won, but it
was Super Bowl like three right.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
The year I was born.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's like, so even for them, they have one, and
it's like we can't even remember it's three generations have
passed this last time that has that has been something
that's viable for us. I mean, hell, Rex Ryan was
your best coach that you've had in the last twenty
five years. There, you know what I'm saying. So so
do you want to be that? Absolutely not. I like
(33:55):
our position, it just needs to get a little bit
better and a little bit better. That's it. Your built
on top of already good foundation.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And you have the resources to do it. It's not
like you're you're in a situation here where you don't
have any cap space and you're you're, okay, here, what
are we gonna do here? Guys, we gotta do something.
We're gonna have to get rid of more guys than we.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Add not to mention at some point you were going
to stumble into not even a Burrow, a Dak Prescott
in the fifth round. But if he comes to this
team and looks up the cam as opposed to going
to the Browns, like what do we do here?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You know, like you know what I mean, like then, yeah,
right right, like you're going to stumble into a quarterback. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Anyways, let's get to another break here before we come
back and wrap up the show. He is Max Starks,
that's Matt Williamson, and I am Dale Lolly. We are
here at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, will be
here all week long. We'll be back after this to
finish up the show. We're done at five o'clock today,
but a lot of good stuff, a lot of great guests,
and uh well we'll be back with more of that
(34:57):
right after this. And we are back. I am Dale
Lolly here with Max Starks and Matt Williamson and we
are live at the NFL Scouting Combine here on the
Steelers Audio Network. And been a fun day, guys, A
(35:17):
lot of a lot of a lot of stuff, a
lot of news of course. Omar Kahn talking earlier today
and saying, hey, we've we've we've talked with you know,
the agents for both Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, and
and they'd like to have somebody under contract by March twelfth,
that's when the new league year opens and free agency begins,
actually begins March tenth. That's when the illegal legal tampering.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I'm a big dominator.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I love that term legal tampering.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Yeah, I Hey, this is where we can talk about it.
We just can't act on it period. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
So you know I mean is February twenty fifth now soon?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Two weeks right, yeah, two weeks We're start to fall
correctly here and they want to know where they stand
with you know, the quarterback situation.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
We need have somebody under contract because.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
It it affects what you do in free agency, and be.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Real nice to have it before the buzzer, you know,
without question. And that doesn't have to be Fields or Wilson.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I mean that could be.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Rogers or Cousins or Stafford or somebody else that's not
a UFA to That's the.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Other thing about this, right, the next two weeks, we're
gonna we're gonna see a lot of veteran players be
shown the well.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
And you said it, you said, I mean, does Derek
Carr come available right, you know down in New Orleans
because New Orleans has to cut some guys to get
a compliance. Yeah, you know, there are some things what
about Trevor Lawrence. Where does he stand with the like
there's a lot of pieces in these next fourteen days
that are shoes are going.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
To drop you to go.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I didn't know he was available, No, yeah, just like
we did with Russ and with Justin we didn't know
they were available. We didn't know the call. So you're
going to see it.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I don't think we were talking about Russell Wilson the
last combine that we're not right.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, we just know something was going to happen because
of the friction between him and Sean Page, but we
didn't know how that would appropriate and also the compensation
who was picking up the tab for a majority of
that cost be Yeah. So so, I mean there's still
a lot of stuff in these next fourteen days. It's
going to be really intriguing to see again. And it
gets figured out here. This is where it gets figured out.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, teams look at this draft class and they go, Okay,
can we afford to do without this guy because we
think we can get a comparable replacement in the draft.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
The Browns will know a lot faster than everybody else
about their Miles Garrett situation because those d linemen will
be on the field in the next two days. Yeah, sure,
get it, and they'll know well in advance what we
can and can't do and what's possible to figure that out,
because that's one of those Jonathan Allen as well with
the commanders, they're gonna know more of those guys. As
as these guys start to compete in what they do
(37:49):
after these interviews, after their measurables come in, after they
start competing on the field for drills, you'll start to
see it start to fast track and by the end
of it, you'll be at ten days and we'll have
a lot more answers within I would say within the
next eight days about how those things start to clear
up before we get to that period.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
And yeah, Dell, we do this every day and we
think we have a pretty good beat on things.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I think we do too.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
But like one year ago Fields, his name was out there.
We knew the Bears had the first overall pick, Caleb Williams,
so we didn't think Field was coming back.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
But it's like at that point the compensation were still
they won a second round pick.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
They want a second fifth everybody, yeah, right, right, right,
you really have no idea We were right, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Right, and and that that gets discussed here, the reality
of it because based off of what's available right, supply,
the the theory of supply and demand.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
And I'm sure they didn't want a second and a fifth,
but nobody want to.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
But nobody.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
They hung that. They hung that carrot out here, and
nobody nibbled on it. So I was like, okay, well
maybe we thought a lot highly more highly of this
than what you thought. So now we reach, we retool,
but we know we had to get him out of there.
So now it's like, okay, well, what are you willing
to give us? At that point, you know, pie and
the sky demands start. But then reality sets in very quickly,
especially when we see all three hundred and twenty nine
(38:59):
of the these kids start to compete, and you realize, well,
you know, hey, I can let this guy go because
I know in the third round, I'm gonna get this guy.
Yeah right, Okay, it makes it a little bit easier.
I saw three of the guys that I want body
type wise, that tested well and are all kind of similar,
and I can take either one of those three and
be happy. All right bye, you know, let's move on and.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
I'm not saying any of them are gonna turn the superstars,
but like Jones from the Patriots picket Ridder, how all
these guys got traded that were starters the year before,
young pretty high picks. Yeah, all were on the move boom.
You know, where do you get another guy?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
You know?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
So there's there's opportunities we don't see yet. Yeah, no, no,
there's a lot. I mean, just like you know, I
hate to go back to it because I covered the Cardinals,
is so I can say it. You drafted Josh Rosen
at eleven one year and you went too Caler Murray
number one overall that cherry following.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Year, you made that decision like that, Yeah, you made
a decision.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
You didn't even hesitate. So then stranger things have happened,
is what I'm going.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
To dump the eighth pick for a second round or
one year one year ago, driving it off a lot,
you know.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah. So I mean, so that's one of the things
where we we think we know and we have a
good beat as it stands today, as it will stand tomorrow,
but we don't know four days from now what's gonna happen.
We don't know what other shoes gonna do just like
we didn't know before coming in, Like we knew right
before we came into this Matthew Stafford, they were shopping
his value.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
We had no clue.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Just like Miles Garrett the first day of Super Bowl
drops that letter that he wants to be traded. Nobody
was thinking about that for Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
We're like, hey, Eagles chase next.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
So you know it's a Miles Garrett, you know speculation show.
Let alone remember all the I talk, oh, you know,
right at every receiver that came available, Davante Adams and
the whole thing. I mean, there's things that are just
gonna happen. And also the agents know when they're gonna
drop news because they know what they're playing. It's cat
(40:51):
and Mouse's chess and checkers being played here, and we're
gonna see it. We're gonna have brand new news tomorrow.
We're gonna have brand new news.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
With something will come out tonight. A week going to
be busy, and our.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Friday show is going to be completely different than the
show we just had. I can't believe we were talking
about that on Tuesday. How facetious are Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So I mean that that's what this event is about.
That's what it's like. I mean, they'll be there'll be
meetings tonight. There's such plan meets.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
The last couple of weeks are tough for content for
us because everyone's on lockdown.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
They're not making moves. They're not going to be in
the same city now they.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Are now they're all the NFL is here and well
we'll bring it to things will happen. Yes, So guys,
it's been a fun day. It's been a long day, Max, Yes, one,
good day one, but we've had all kinds of wall
to wall content from nine to five. We'll be back
again tomorrow with the same format basically, we'll be going
(41:47):
nine to five here on the Steelers Audio Network. And
we want to thank west Yuler, Jerry Dulac, Rob King
dropped by and spent some time here. Of course, my
partners Max Starks and Matt Williamson. We want to thank
Tyler Viittmeyer for a video in here the last three
hours udio. You can check that out on YouTube later
(42:08):
on tonight when he gets that up there. And we
also want to thank CJ. Wolfy and Justin Miller beck
in studio for logging all these long hours as well.
We also want to thank you for listening to this
edition of Steelers Nation Radio on the Steelers Audio Network.
I'm Dale Lallie. We'll be back again tomorrow
And we are back.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am Dale Lolly here with the Matt Williamson. Don't
know where Max got off to now, but he might
be out grabs grab our next guest here, Max does everybody.
But yeah, interesting conversation here about the touch push there
in the in the previous segment. We'll see what else
comes out of it.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
You know, I'm gonna make the kickoff thing was being
considered going back.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
They're gonna know they want potentially move it back. They
want kickoffs, and they're also talking about the potential of
you know, how to how to because the current role
is you can't attempt an on side kick now before
the find around that. Yeah, you know, honestly, if you
want to run an on side you're gonna have to
declare it because because you gonna do it. I think
(00:52):
that's one of the flaws in the new system. But
it's they've taken this surprise on side kick out of
the game. But if they're a way to still running
on side kick, I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Earlier in the game, I don't know why, why can't
I do the opening kickoff?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I want? Yeah, Well, for exat I think in the
in one of the playoff games. Somebody scored. Was at
Kansas City. Maybe this is in the.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Super Bowl, right before the end of the third quarter.
They scored when it was an obvious on side kickoff.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And they and they're you know, they're still down three
scores and they still had to kickoff deep because it's
on the fourth quarter. It wasn't the fourth quarter. Actually couldn't.
You could have to buy rules you can't do an
on side kick until the fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
But when you declare it, it's awful hard to recover one,
you know, but such as life, it's on a perfect
don't fall behind.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well. And the other thing is is, right, is that
what's the conversion rate before we change this? Right?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It wasn't very high.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It wasn't a high to begin with. So we're talking
about what ten twelve percent, And I mean it's like,
come on now, And like you said, I think, but
I think it also keeps teams from doing that type
of stuff and putting themselves in a situation. It's like
you're down three touchdowns, like, come on, you need to
play better offense. Yeah, right, and you're and you're already
giving the team that's already been scoring three touchdowns ahead
(02:09):
of you even better field position than they're already gonna
get because a lot of teams have decided we're only
playing seventy seventy percent of the field in the first place.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But we saw in a stealer Super Bowl surprise on side,
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wish that still existed.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, it would be nice, But like you said, it's
that once in a while shot in the arm trick
play that comes out versus we're talking about week twelve.
You know, you're playing a non con you know you're
playing a non division, non conference opponent, and you're down
and you're trying to do this stuff. It's like, Okay,
this game is already bad. Let's not make this game worse.
(02:42):
So you're protecting against the Jaguars and the and the
Panthers of the world from doing.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It, from doing dumb stuff. Yes, we don't do that
in the off season though, and we could see some.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
It's not something that you're standing on the table for
either way, exactly. I do wish the surprise on side
was at least an.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
All yeah, or if you say you can't enact it
till the second half of games, right, you can give
him a little bit more lea or halfway through the
third quarter, we can open it up right once again,
open to interpretation. I don't think we take it away,
but I think once again you can tweak it right.
This has been the first year, and this is not
supposed to be a failed proof. We've put it in.
It's perfect all the way, but there can be adjustments
(03:19):
that made along the way that can make it a
little bit more equitable. Say I'm down ten points and
I just want to surprise them. You know, we're getting
we're getting out of opportunities, and this team is very
good at running and possessing the ball. Maybe want to
steal a possession here, because we're not gonna get it
on a defense, on an interception or a turnover, So
at least try something different. I think they could open
it up a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, the problems just have to declare it now because
then they have the line different And yeah, all that
is common and okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, I wish I would have asked when we had
Ramote Foster on earlier today. And of course Romone now
in a media personality in is that the right correct
term for him? Now?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah? Yeah, he is a personal media questionable.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But he's in Nashville now, and of course the Titans
have the number one overall pick in.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This year's draft and a new GM and a new
GM with a second year head coach. I mean a
lot of stuff going on there now.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
When we had Greg Cosell on, he said that he
feels cam Ward is a franchise type quarterback, the creator, creator,
and elevator. And yet I get the feeling that the
Titans aren't going to use that first overall pick, not
on a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And I don't I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I don't think that when it all is said and done,
I don't think they're going to use the first overall pick.
I think they trade it.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, because they need, because they need they need a
lot of help because first of all, yes you can
add cam Ward, but you got to address that offensive
lind the office a line with garbage last year, like
two good guys, and it's like one and a half.
And they still they still are in that first four
years of their NFL experience that you don't they can
still go either way. You know, they could be good
this year terrible. That Yeah, so you need that. You still,
(05:06):
I would argue, you need a top tier receiver. Oh yeah, yeah,
you know, and I think you need an edge rusher, right,
you know, So there's so many things that they need.
I don't think quarterback. You know, you want to be
able to put that quarterback out and PLoP them right in, right,
Ben Roethlisberger style.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Everything else is built around, you know, the team except QB.
And so when Ben came in, he was a final
missing piece for Tennessee. There's so many holes that they
have to fill. They need volume right now. And so
that's why I think you have to trade out of
it because that number one overall picks valuable, especially when
we just talked about five or six teams that don't
(05:44):
have a starting quarterback right now. For that squad that
would be willing to wager the future to get a quarterback,
whereas I think Tennessee New GM a little bit more
of a timeline.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
He's like, well, we can kick that can down the road.
If we get everything else in place, then we can
bring in the And.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Sorry you kind of said it. You know, it's a
first your GM second year head code. Yes, you would
think their seats not burning hot yet either. You know,
they could probably go another four or five wins season
and be fine.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yes, and get another high round draft pick.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Again, Yeah, and end up going back into the quarterback
market with a better line and maybe a better receiver,
et cetera, And a.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Lot of con tracks become available in free agency for
quarterbacks a lot better next year.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And if they're stuck there, maybe they do take Carter
or Hunter and are fine with it. And that's a
building block. But just history and my hunch is Wards somehow.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Will go first overall.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I believe so Giants will trade up, Raiders trade up grade.
Raiders are the number one team that I look at
is we've got to go get something because we've seen
what terrible quarterback players look like an O'Connell Gardner minshew.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
We're also we're also in Vegas, yes, and the only
people who come to our games are the opposing thing.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
And division Pat Mahomes in our division justin Herberts and
our vision. Bo Nicks just went off right as a
rookie against us, So we need that star power, name
power to combat the other three that I'm going against
in my division, whereas other divisions don't have to worry
about that. There's not that large a concentration of quality quarterbacks.
I'm not gonna say because Pat's great. Justin was good. Obviously,
(07:23):
he took a step back with the Martin you know,
with the Morning Weeks system and everything, you know, and
it's more run based, so he didn't really have the
numbers that we're used to seeing from Justin. But Bo
was a surprise. So now it's like, well, three teams
got a quarterback and we're the only one left left
out in the dirt. So they have to be aggressive.
The Jets have to be aggressive as well.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And I don't think Cleveland. I don't think Cleveland's in
that situation where they need to go get quarterback either.
They have too many needs. Yeah, especially in so many
other they're gonna trade Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah yeah, that's now they're.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Saying they're not going to but he's also saying he's
not gonna play.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And we've seen what that pressure looks like right from
other teams. So this is the trick.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Warden Cleveland next year, it would be a disaster.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh, it would be horrible.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Before is talking about retiring, they're gonna have to you're
talking about trying to ruin a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, it would be a David Carr esque Yeah,
if you've got a quarterback in there now, you need
to go get a veteran that doesn't mind being a
meat grinder. Go go sign Jameis Winston back again for
another year and deal with it as you build. But
finally are having some draft capital now, you know, Yeah,
they're not and they're not in cap hell anymore, you
know what I'm saying. So so yeah, so I think,
(08:28):
but I think Jets Raiders. Absolutely. I would say the
Giants too, just because yes, the is so hot. Yeah,
I would say, you're absolutely right. I forgot about the
Giants and how could I forget anything in New York
that's not Buffalo pretty much? So yeah, all of them,
all of them need a quarterback, and they're the ones
that the Tennessee is looking at like, Okay, what can
(08:48):
I what can I fleece you with? Yeah, to get
to get more resources.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
And I don't think it'll be the Panthers DJ Moore,
Bryce Young trade.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
That was all I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I don't know if you'll get that much more this year. Yeah,
but you'll get or.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Even like Strubisky San Francisco trade right right, move up
one spot move up one spot and you just absolutely
decimated the Bears by that. You know, it's not going
to be that, and and so I think when you
kind of look at it, but it needs to be
something commensurate to where they can go back to the
well in day two a couple of times, because, like
you said, the value is going to be in day two,
(09:22):
like that's where the big movement, the big plays are
going to be made. It's not in the first round
this time. Because nobody has multiples like they've had in
years past. We're like, oh, I got three to play with,
and they're at the back end. You know, I got
Philly's pick or something. You know, it's not that or
or like last year the Dolphins lost a pick. So
therefore the thirty third pick became even better when we
(09:42):
got you know, the Chicago Bears in that situation, Yeah,
the quarter pick two years ago. So you know, it's
not like that. So I think, you know, for them,
it's going to be Okay, how far back in the
top ten am I moving? And then what else am
I getting day two out of this deal? Because the
Titans need volume, they don't mayb they don't need quality
right now.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So we could see a situation. And I want to say,
when we've seen some of those picks get traded in
recent years, it's been well before the draft. Yeah, it's
been like pre free agency.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's usually happened like next week, right, Yeah, because they
talk about it here. Yeah, they talk about it here
and they and they get everything finalized because you have
all the decision makers here, so it's like, hey, we'll
just wait till it seems proper. It's a little lull
in the day boom drops in the facts, right, or
email or for whatever they do nowadays. Yeah, yeah, you know,
whatever transmission is needed through the league office, like send
(10:39):
in your request and then send in that, hey we've
agreed on this both side, blah blah blah. But yeah,
that that'll usually happen next week. I don't think this
this goes to March twelfth, And I definitely don't think
this happens in April before the draft on the clock, Yeah,
exactly right, and then we'll know who the number one pick.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Us and then we'll know. Like I said, I think
cam Word does go number one overall, but I just don't.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Think it because here, because Tennessee is not going to
stay at number one and draft up Dual Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
If they could move the three. Yeah, but then the question,
because you know, just does Cleveland take him? Okay, maybe
maybe not. Are you happy with one of the other guys?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, exactly, I mean are you happy with and and listen,
there's still some good things because once again, Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Guess what. Cleveland has a lot of issues.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And if they went with a quarterback like you said,
they're going to ruin him because they don't know what
they have or don't have and how it's going to look.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Because what history says they'll do it anyways, that's true.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Do that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Don't do that. It's like, hey, hey, I got to
touch it to see if it's hot burn.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like if they take Sanders, I mean, what do you
I mean to me?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That would be catastrophic.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And that's why our fans should be like doing a dance.
Oh god, if they take sand You're like, yes, we're
doing because he has no weapons, he has nothing to work.
That's why I think Shadur is going to be in
Las Vegas, right, Vegas does nothing if they don't, like,
if they don't move to number if they don't move
to number one, they just take them. They just take him,
and then they could also address the other mountains of
issues that they need, right because you don't. You lost
(12:17):
Christian Wilkins's third game in the season and you had
no defensive interior, so you need it. You need an interior,
D line, you need so you can't afford to really
give away too many resources. And you're one with Pete Carroll.
And I don't think Pete's has that appetite like, hey,
whatever falls to us, that's what we take. I think
that's how they're going to be seventy.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Three years old. He's not in this for the long run.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
He is, he's in Vegas, but he's not at the tables.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
He's didn't buy a house. He's renting.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, he's renting a house. And like you said, and
another good point, Tom Brady's also in there. Yeah. And
when you're talking about a guy who will see in
tangibles in late round talent to be able to say, hey,
that's the guy we need in here, and he's not
necessarily Shaduur Sanders or him, that's also another thing to
play into it. Let's build everything up because I guarantee
you Brady wants to wants to have the pieces in
place if he's going to commit his name to a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Excuse me, I find it so interesting at this point
end of February, there's really six teams that don't have
a quarterback, including the Steelers. Yeah, but the Steelers are
the only ones that are good. Yeah, and they're like,
I mean, they're a little different than the rest. They're
not perfect, but they're a playoff team. They're a perennial winner.
They're not the Titans, the Giants, the Jets, the Browns,
(13:28):
and the Raiders.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
We played five quarterbacks in two seasons and got to
the packs both times. Right, it's pretty crazy, right, Right?
That doesn't happen now. Listen, Cleveland did it in one
year and that was only because of Joe Flacco. But
when you think about it, to have sustained success, and also,
I know people hate hearing it not a losing season
an eighteen years, almost two decades of not going below
(13:52):
five hundred and yes, for a majority of that, we've
had a Hall of Fame quarterback in Ben Roethlisberger. But
to do it the way that they've don it the
last two years with fus, with new guys, with rookies, with.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Everything, playing one of the league's most difficult schedules, and
each into.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
The toughest and in the toughest division in football. Like
there's something to be said, Like you said, not not
all these things are built the same. Yeah, it's like
it's we need it. We want it for stability and
for long term success because you can't play the quarterback
carousel forever and we have nobody under contract. You need
some stability there. But at the end of the day,
(14:29):
it's not the priority because you're still going to get
good played. Now. The problem is, you know, as Wolf
will say, you know we have fat and sassy fans, right,
you know we've enjoyed success and we we and we
want it. We want it to look a certain way.
We know we don't want to just get there.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
We need to be the Chiefs. Don't be winning Buffalo right, Yeah,
exactly get it, right.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I get it, I get it. But the fact that
you know, you only have fourteen of those thirty two
going in every year, and if you're taking away this
thirteen out of thirty one that have to compete for
the and we're kind of slotting ourselves in there year
in and year out. It's like you just wanted to
see that additional because now you want to see the
next step, which is success in the playoffs, right at
least one win. I want to talk about and real quick.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Last offseason was so unique because Wilson fell out of
the sky and caused the league minimum. Yes, I mean
just in terms of what you've invested and fields next
to nothing too.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And gave us a salary cat that we have now
to be more aggressive. That was a rare offseason opportunity.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I want to continue to touch on that subject in
the next segment. We'll do that when we return. He
is Max Starks. I am Dale Lolly. That is Matt Williamson.
And this is the Drive on the Steelers Audio Network
on Steelers Nation Radio. We are live from the NFL
Scouting Combine here in Indianapolis, day one of the event.
We'll be back with more right after this. And we
(15:50):
are back. I am Dale Lolly here with Max Starks
and Matt Williamson at the NFL Scouting Combine here on
Steelers Audio Network. And uh, well, guys, I mentioned we
were talking about fans and teams being bad and things
of that nature. And I know a lot of people say, well,
you know, just blow it up and start over. Here,
(16:10):
blow it up and start over. Steeler fans would not
tolerate going four and thirteen. No, they just would not
an embarrassed week after week. Yeah, right would? You could
talk all you want. So that's how you get a quarterback.
Here's the thing. If you won six games this year,
(16:31):
you're not drafted in the top ten.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
No, you've got to be bad, bad, to be historically terrible, yes,
which we're trying to think of the last time the
Steelers went below six victories, it wasn't in the twenty
first century.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
It was nineteen eighty seven. They won five games.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
See there, you gotta hope Joe Burrow comes out that year,
exactly right. And I was five years old when that happened.
So just think about what we're asked. What you're asking for, right,
whether it's blow up the coaching staff, blow up the personnel,
you know, trade trade away all this stuff, forced cam
In to retire, whatever it is. You don't want that
(17:10):
type of situation going, right, And especially when when you're
always in the conversation like it's tough to not be
in the conversation like, could do you want to be
the Carolina Panthers right now? Right?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Right? You do you?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Heck, I'll even go as far do you want to
be the Arizona Cardinals? Right? And that that's that's a
seven win team and it's getting better.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
It's a little better.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Incrementally, but they haven't been truly truly competitive since Super
Bowl fifty and that was a one shot year, right.
You know, you brought Carson Palmer in and you found
a guy because he was on the he was on
the couch, just like Joe Flacco, right, he was on
the couch. There's no couch quarterbacks right now to bring
in that will give you that magical one year. And
(17:53):
the last time was our Super Bowl forty three. We're
at fifty one, fifty nine. You know what I'm saying, Like,
we have to think about those things. We have to
think about those things. And people they say it because
it sounds sexy, But you can end up with Josh Rosen,
Oh yeah, easily because you're not getting number one overall
and that guy doesn't either, and that and that guy
(18:14):
doesn't hit. I mean, we can talk about the Ryan.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Leafs of the world, and we got to relearn how
to win. Yeah, and that's the thing anything that was
built in the expectation.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
And then by that also that means you have a
young roster and if they don't know how to win,
you don't have a cam Hayward and tej we could
talk to you as you traded them. You traded them
all the way you got rid of them, then you
went cheaper, and you went you went younger to.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
All their contracts are up at the same time. Yeah,
and you won't be able to keep them when they're
in their prime, and then you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, like
it's stuck with me.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Dale.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
On the way down here, we're driving down with west Yuler,
who hosts a show of course with Arthur Modes, and
he said, you know, to quote Modes, basically, he's like
one year in Buffalo we won seven games, and they
thought that was like winning the super Bowl compared to like,
if Steelers win seven games, they has fallen.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Right exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
I mean like that's how Yeah, it was twenty years ago.
But when I was in the war room with the Browns,
Phil Savage would say a prayer and then he'd say
how do we beat the Steelers. That's how we started
the war room conversations like they were striving to build
what was already in place. And yes, you haven't won
a playoff game in a while, but that's still is
the foundation.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
The Steelers have not had a losing season since the
year you were drafted. Yes, So basically in your NFL lifetime.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Being associated with this franchise, I've never known what a
losing year is like never.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And that means something that means the guys in that
locker room there is an expectation like, hey, six wins
isn't going to be tolerated. We're all seven wins isn't
going to be tolerated. No, that's not gonna happen, right right.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, I mean that. And that's the other thing is
that you don't know, like you have to go back
to somebody who's a fans is eighty seven to actually
ask them. And when we think about it, the roster
that we have right now wasn't born. Nobody was born
on that roster back when the last losing season was.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That just goes to put it in perspective.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So what you're asking for is something that is a
near historic moment to happen to be in a position
to maybe maybe drafted guy because we already talked about it.
Quarterbacks don't come out. You look at the preseason, Hey,
who's supposed to be this half of them? Like, I'm
a stay in college because that's what I'm making three mil.
I taken this draft. I'm the fourth best defensive tackle.
(20:34):
I'm the fourth best quarterback. I'm not making as much
as I'm making as being the number one guy in
this I'm gonna be a number one cap.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I'm gonna be the tenth pick in the draft. I
don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I'm not doing I'll stay for another year and wait.
And they're kicking the can down the road. So you
anticipating that this bad year is gonna also culminate with
they got to come out and this is the best
guy available, and who's gonna jump you into process because
somebody else can always be worse. Because here's the thing.
Can City Chiefs guess they left frog that Arizona Cardinals
(21:07):
team to get Patrick Mahomes and then they ended up
having to take Hassan Reddick when they thought they had
Patrick Mahomes falling to him. That can also happen as well.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
That's what I was going to say, is I look
at the league right now, and I see four elite quarterbacks.
Two of them happened to be in this division, yes,
and Mahomes and Allen. Of course, Chiefs were a playoff team,
went up and got their guy a year too early.
The Bills weren't great, but he wasn't the first pick
in the draft, and he had a lot of questions coming.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And they were the team that traded to pick right
that the Chiefs Hughes Patrick Mahomes, and he was.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Wildly inaccurate for a year or two as well. I mean,
Alan had a lot of work to do, and but
but you didn't know what he was going to bring
to the table that he was going to sit down
and actually take. Because that's the other thing, when you're
doing this mental background check, you still don't know what
you're getting. Even after all of the background checks, you
don't know what that guy's thinking in his head and
he can't control it. Lamar.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
He goes to a quality organization, granted, but he's the
end of the first round and they took before.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Went to this almost went to the second round. Like
if Baltimore doesn't jump back into day one, Lamar sits overnight.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
And they preferred Hayden Hurst on draft dy. Yeah, I
mean that's clear. So the four, only one of them
was a bottom out team and they're that organization's fighting
some rough waters right now too. They also weren't in
the playoffs this year, you know, you know they're all
that money they put in. They a winning culture. I
don't know, there a glimpse there. They look like it.
And here's the thing, most of my lifetime, they haven't been.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
The two of those four that we're talking about as
being elite quarterbacks still have lost to the Steelers at
that time, right, they still have. They still haven't consistently,
like like Lamar got two consecutive wins in the first
season in the same season for the first time ever
since he's been there, right right right, you know what
I'm saying. So we're talking about it, and Joe Burrow
still can't beat them, beat the Steelers at home, you
(22:48):
know what I'm saying. Like, so these teams are still
split in fifty fifty with the Steelers. When we have
quarterback flux or aging quarterback, they still can't completely topple us.
So we're still a problem by the rest of the
feet off the doing.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, here's the thing. I would understand the idea that
you blow this whole thing up and let's start over.
If they didn't have cap space, they have. They have
sixty million dollars in cap space, this according to over
the Cap. And the key thing is they have forty
five thousand dollars in dead money on the salary cap.
Next it's by far the fewest amount of dead cap space.
(23:25):
That's if you start trading away the TJ. Watts and
the Cam Haywards, now you're taking on dead cap space
and all those things as well, and all of a sudden,
now your salary cap gets screwed up. Then you become
the New Orleans Saints.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yes exactly, you become Mickey Loomis and you're like looking
for dollars in your pockets. You're picking up pennies off
the ground, right. You know at the grocery.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Store they have guys they can't cut, yeah, because it
costs them more money against the cap. Because they've just
kept kicking the can down earth, they went for it.
You know, the Cleveland Browns this past season, the last
four seasons have went for it and what did it?
He got him one playoff win. Yeah, and it got
them the second pick in the draft this year.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And in this past draft, the Browns picked fifty fourth.
That's the first pick they made. The year before that,
it was in the sixties. The year before that it
was in the seventies. So they have no rookie contract
stars to even build around you. Now, finally, I give
the Browns credit. They have a ton of draft capital
for this year, partially because they stunk and they earned it,
but they traded a Marii Cooper and they mean they
(24:27):
added a few other decent picks. This would be the
first draft they've had a real draft in four years.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And even then, now you're dealing with a really really
young roster that you don't know is going to come
together or not right, So you're still not competitive this year.
You're thinking about two three years down, which.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Is why Miles Garrett doesn't want to be there anyway.
He's like, Irish, I'll be thirty two and we're we're
gonna be still picking in the top ten. Yeah, what
are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
And I'm not picking on the division, but I could
see a scenario one year from now where Burrow's looking
at the Bengals going I feel the same way, Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Does you know, like there's not enough money you could
throw at me? Right? Like this is not right? Yeah,
exactly right.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I'm tired of spinning my wheels here, Like what are
we doing?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah? Yeah, we need to just go and be aggressive
or just let me go. I'll go somewhere else and
be picks or whatever. Right, Yeah, I can get that
for you. Hey, it'd be a nice parting gift for
you guys. But let me go to the NFC South
and let me revive my career. Let me go to
Tampa Bay or someone. Hey, it worked out for Baker Mayfield,
you know, and Derek Carr not so much. But I mean,
(25:30):
you know, you go to a different division that doesn't
have as competitive go to either of the South's AFC
or NFC. It's wide open and if you're a quality quarterback, yeah,
I want to play in that because I'm like, I know,
I I know I could be the class of the
division very quickly, you know what I'm saying. Like Indianapolis
would be an attractive place, you know, for for quarter
(25:51):
around yea, yeah, because it's like, hey, I gotta go
against Jacksonville. Houston is gonna be a little bit of
an issue, you know. And then I got Tennessee who
still doesn't know his way up. Easy division for the
n and I put a little contract rider in there.
If we win the division, I get a little bump
as well.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
See.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I don't think the Browns look at it this way,
but if they are smart and they could really self
analyze themselves, Miles Garrett's doing them a favor because it's
time to start over. I mean for them, they're in
such bad situation because of the Watson trade, the worst
trade in history. God, they have to sell all their
assets and start over. And hope those guys come together.
And I'm never a fan of tanking or trading your
(26:27):
best guys.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
And not trying to win. But they they brought it
to themselves because the right You went for it at
the at the absolute worst time you could go for it.
You push all your chips and you don't always win. Yeah, exactly. Listen,
Vegas's lights aren't on because of all the winners. Absolutely,
you say you were, you were one of the light
bulbs out there.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
The Rams push their chips in with Stafford and Hit.
Great when the Bucks did the same thing with Brady
and Hit. But there were seven other teams those years
that did and didn't. Aaron Rodgers with the Jets, Brown's
time and time again, Saints every year, you know, like
most don't.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's no coincidence to two teams with the least amount
of cap space as we sit here right now are
the Saints and Browns. They're the most miserable organizations. Only
they can't do anything. They're gonna have to cut guys
just to get cap compliant in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
And the Watson things not going away.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I mean, he's guaranteed money, you know, Yeah, they finally
have draft guaranteed his contract. Garrett's doing them a favor.
They can trade him and get stuff and start over.
Maybe you can build something in a couple of years,
but trying to put band aids on this bullet wound
is not gonna help well.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
And granted you also have a lot of contracts that
will come up the future right within a two to
three year space, but it's like, but if we get
a good base in there, and we're now not reaching
and not trading and sacrificing. I can go and draft
and now I can actually build something for the future,
rebuild no line.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
YEAHO Carter fills in for Garrett and it's not the same,
but it's it's something.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But people thinking that the Steelers are in that kind
of situation and that they should therefore they're trying.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
To equal strive to be in that situation.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, nobody Browns are willing, you know, Miles Garrett once
out of a Cleveland. The Steeler should do that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
With t J.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Watt, No, they're not in the same they're not even
in the same stratosphere.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
No, A lot of it's financial close to those fans.
I don't like to say this often it's dumb.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It is plump.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's plumb, dumb.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You don't trade, you don't trade.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
You know people, you're just a blind, blind fan at
this point. You know what I'm saying, because you do.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Maybe you did it on madd I did it on Madden.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, Dynasty Mode. Yeah, it's like there's there's no harm,
no foul, right, But this is the real world with
real people that you can't control like a video game.
And people think that they're listen a lot more access
and information is available, right, so people feel more informed.
But informed and smart are two different things. Yeah, right,
(28:52):
And when you're dealing with real money, real issues in
this type of situation, it's different because there's no harm,
no fou. I can just reset the video game, right,
or I could just not read that article that that
that shows me the rationale and I you know, we
can all get information that makes us feel good. That's
why we love the combine. Right. There's metrics that you
can put in your favor to talk you and convince
(29:13):
you into anything. But at the end of the day,
does it fit And that's where hopefully the rationale. Listening
to informed individuals like the ones on SNR, you know,
and understanding what this is gives you a better place
to understand that being competitive year in and year out
and being a little bit short of competitive versus starting
back at the start line is not where you ever
(29:34):
want to go.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like things, It's like you're getting closer and then all
of a sudden you get down the show. All right,
we're starting over from scratch. Yes, well, yeah, I'm neveritely.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Planned to want to hit the shoot, you to hit
the finish line, You want to hit the.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Ladder, you definitely want to you can speak to and
this is a human business. You start doing those things
and then you're like, well I got it now, I
finally a bunch of cap space. I can go get
free agents. Free agents don't want to play for you.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
If you're you suck, nobody wants to come right. If
you're cool with sucking, I'm not going. And nobody way
over payment.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Nobody thinks about what kind of message, For example, trading
a guy away like TJ Watt sends to the rest
of the locker room, mister Fitzpatrick or.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Walk up to Cam Hayward and be like, yeah, we
just ditched TJ. Watt for a second round pick. Oh
yeah yeah, Well like.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
You're you're you're you're eroding the morale of a team. Yeah,
Like when you look up to guys, I don't want
to see that guy leaving, right, and I get hey,
when you're old, you're old. That's a whole different story.
We could talk about the over thirty and the analysis
that goes into the father yeah, bah blah blah blah.
But don't trade a guy that's in his prime and
(30:42):
tell me that you're doing big brother.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You know, yeah, trade him because you know what am
I Yeah, my role model, you.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Know exactly that that that guy helped me in this
line and another thing. And that's kind of what the
Steelers have kind of strugg They've held on to leaders
a little bit too long. But it's never been we've
gotten rid of them too soon, right, you know what
I'm saying, Like that's never been the issue you and
but they've kind of earned it. Yeah, you know right,
there's there's something to be said about that, right, that
does put you in cap cap strap trying to hold
on to a leader that's not you know, contributing to
(31:11):
the level that you want and that's why you're drafting matters.
But you want them in the system because the culture
and what culture means so much. It means so much,
and the standards that are set mean a lot. And
that's what people don't realize, Like you have to have
someone adjacent to that winning culture to then tell that
oral tradition, right, how we did history back in the
(31:32):
old timey days, right, you passed oral tradition down. And
when you have that gap, we've seen it offensively, like
there was Joe Green, Yeah, and the fact that you
saw that Joe green around is a blessing, but how
many more years is that going to be around? Now?
You're gonna need the Bens the Troys of the world
to come back around here and be like those seventies Steelers. Right,
You're gonna need sadly our class you know, to be
(31:55):
around there because if the further you get away from
those championships is the tougher you get to try and
resemble that and we and you need to have some success.
But blowing it up and starting back from the beginning,
you're not gonna get any alumni back. You're gonna lose
that locker room, right, And then now we're gonna be saying, Okay,
now we do need to go get a new head coach.
Now we do need to go get a new g
Then now we're in we're repetitive cycle, and we're looking
(32:16):
at the guys right across the state line like, are
we now Cleveland Exactly? That's what you turn into. We
will be an expansion franchise that comes back after being
hauled off in the middle of the night. And t J.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Watson at the end of the year, he's like those
guys that have rings have a different are about them.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
To come back.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I know I want to be one of those guys
because I see how special it is.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Mel Blunt walking by, you know, like, well, yeah, Jerome
Bettis walks in, You're like, holy crap. You know what
I'm saying like that, that those things matter, and.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
There's every generation. Those guys don't get Joe, but they
remember the generation.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, they know the mystique of mean Joe Green, right right,
you know what I'm saying. So, and you see him
next to championship trophies on the walls when you walk
by Cleveland, how many and how many Super Bowl trophies
they have in their offices?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Zero?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Hey, how many does the Arizona Cardinals have in their office?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
It'll be zero?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Right? You walk past those six every day. Yeah, I
gotta know, you're like, hey, stand up a little bit straighter,
Like shit, I need I want to get number seven
up there.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
It looks and it's possible to do it here it is,
you know, like it's way.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Easier than a lot of other players. A rough year
of the Browns.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
But I didn't think for one chance we had its
possible to put a Super Bowl championship out there one minute.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And even for the Jets who have won, but it
was Super Bowl like three right.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
The year I was born.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's like, so even for them, they have one, and
it's like we can't even remember it's three generations have
passed this last time that has that has been something
that's viable for us. I mean, hell, Rex Ryan was
your best coach that you've had in the last twenty
five years. There, you know what I'm saying. So so
do you want to be that? Absolutely not. I like
(33:55):
our position, it just needs to get a little bit
better and a little bit better. That's it. Your built
on top of already good foundation.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And you have the resources to do it. It's not
like you're you're in a situation here where you don't
have any cap space and you're you're, okay, here, what
are we gonna do here? Guys, we gotta do something.
We're gonna have to get rid of more guys than we.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Add not to mention at some point you were going
to stumble into not even a Burrow, a Dak Prescott
in the fifth round. But if he comes to this
team and looks up the cam as opposed to going
to the Browns, like what do we do here?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You know, like you know what I mean, like then, yeah,
right right, like you're going to stumble into a quarterback. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Anyways, let's get to another break here before we come
back and wrap up the show. He is Max Starks,
that's Matt Williamson, and I am Dale Lolly. We are
here at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, will be
here all week long. We'll be back after this to
finish up the show. We're done at five o'clock today,
but a lot of good stuff, a lot of great guests,
and uh well we'll be back with more of that
(34:57):
right after this. And we are back. I am Dale
Lolly here with Max Starks and Matt Williamson and we
are live at the NFL Scouting Combine here on the
Steelers Audio Network. And been a fun day, guys, A
(35:17):
lot of a lot of a lot of stuff, a
lot of news of course. Omar Kahn talking earlier today
and saying, hey, we've we've we've talked with you know,
the agents for both Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, and
and they'd like to have somebody under contract by March twelfth,
that's when the new league year opens and free agency begins,
actually begins March tenth. That's when the illegal legal tampering.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I'm a big dominator.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I love that term legal tampering.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Yeah, I Hey, this is where we can talk about it.
We just can't act on it period. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
So you know I mean is February twenty fifth now soon?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Two weeks right, yeah, two weeks We're start to fall
correctly here and they want to know where they stand
with you know, the quarterback situation.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
We need have somebody under contract because.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
It it affects what you do in free agency, and be.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Real nice to have it before the buzzer, you know,
without question. And that doesn't have to be Fields or Wilson.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I mean that could be.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Rogers or Cousins or Stafford or somebody else that's not
a UFA to That's the.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Other thing about this, right, the next two weeks, we're
gonna we're gonna see a lot of veteran players be
shown the well.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
And you said it, you said, I mean, does Derek
Carr come available right, you know down in New Orleans
because New Orleans has to cut some guys to get
a compliance. Yeah, you know, there are some things what
about Trevor Lawrence. Where does he stand with the like
there's a lot of pieces in these next fourteen days
that are shoes are going.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
To drop you to go.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I didn't know he was available, No, yeah, just like
we did with Russ and with Justin we didn't know
they were available. We didn't know the call. So you're
going to see it.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I don't think we were talking about Russell Wilson the
last combine that we're not right.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, we just know something was going to happen because
of the friction between him and Sean Page, but we
didn't know how that would appropriate and also the compensation
who was picking up the tab for a majority of
that cost be Yeah. So so, I mean there's still
a lot of stuff in these next fourteen days. It's
going to be really intriguing to see again. And it
gets figured out here. This is where it gets figured out.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, teams look at this draft class and they go, Okay,
can we afford to do without this guy because we
think we can get a comparable replacement in the draft.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
The Browns will know a lot faster than everybody else
about their Miles Garrett situation because those d linemen will
be on the field in the next two days. Yeah, sure,
get it, and they'll know well in advance what we
can and can't do and what's possible to figure that out,
because that's one of those Jonathan Allen as well with
the commanders, they're gonna know more of those guys. As
as these guys start to compete in what they do
(37:49):
after these interviews, after their measurables come in, after they
start competing on the field for drills, you'll start to
see it start to fast track and by the end
of it, you'll be at ten days and we'll have
a lot more answers within I would say within the
next eight days about how those things start to clear
up before we get to that period.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
And yeah, Dell, we do this every day and we
think we have a pretty good beat on things.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I think we do too.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
But like one year ago Fields, his name was out there.
We knew the Bears had the first overall pick, Caleb Williams,
so we didn't think Field was coming back.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
But it's like at that point the compensation were still
they won a second round pick.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
They want a second fifth everybody, yeah, right, right, right,
you really have no idea We were right, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Right, and and that that gets discussed here, the reality
of it because based off of what's available right, supply,
the the theory of supply and demand.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
And I'm sure they didn't want a second and a fifth,
but nobody want to.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
But nobody.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
They hung that. They hung that carrot out here, and
nobody nibbled on it. So I was like, okay, well
maybe we thought a lot highly more highly of this
than what you thought. So now we reach, we retool,
but we know we had to get him out of there.
So now it's like, okay, well, what are you willing
to give us? At that point, you know, pie and
the sky demands start. But then reality sets in very quickly,
especially when we see all three hundred and twenty nine
(38:59):
of the these kids start to compete, and you realize, well,
you know, hey, I can let this guy go because
I know in the third round, I'm gonna get this guy.
Yeah right, Okay, it makes it a little bit easier.
I saw three of the guys that I want body
type wise, that tested well and are all kind of similar,
and I can take either one of those three and
be happy. All right bye, you know, let's move on and.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
I'm not saying any of them are gonna turn the superstars,
but like Jones from the Patriots picket Ridder, how all
these guys got traded that were starters the year before,
young pretty high picks. Yeah, all were on the move boom.
You know, where do you get another guy?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
You know?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
So there's there's opportunities we don't see yet. Yeah, no, no,
there's a lot. I mean, just like you know, I
hate to go back to it because I covered the Cardinals,
is so I can say it. You drafted Josh Rosen
at eleven one year and you went too Caler Murray
number one overall that cherry following.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Year, you made that decision like that, Yeah, you made
a decision.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
You didn't even hesitate. So then stranger things have happened,
is what I'm going.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
To dump the eighth pick for a second round or
one year one year ago, driving it off a lot,
you know.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah. So I mean, so that's one of the things
where we we think we know and we have a
good beat as it stands today, as it will stand tomorrow,
but we don't know four days from now what's gonna happen.
We don't know what other shoes gonna do just like
we didn't know before coming in, Like we knew right
before we came into this Matthew Stafford, they were shopping
his value.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
We had no clue.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Just like Miles Garrett the first day of Super Bowl
drops that letter that he wants to be traded. Nobody
was thinking about that for Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
We're like, hey, Eagles chase next.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
So you know it's a Miles Garrett, you know speculation show.
Let alone remember all the I talk, oh, you know,
right at every receiver that came available, Davante Adams and
the whole thing. I mean, there's things that are just
gonna happen. And also the agents know when they're gonna
drop news because they know what they're playing. It's cat
(40:51):
and Mouse's chess and checkers being played here, and we're
gonna see it. We're gonna have brand new news tomorrow.
We're gonna have brand new news.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
With something will come out tonight. A week going to
be busy, and our.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Friday show is going to be completely different than the
show we just had. I can't believe we were talking
about that on Tuesday. How facetious are Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So I mean that that's what this event is about.
That's what it's like. I mean, they'll be there'll be
meetings tonight. There's such plan meets.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
The last couple of weeks are tough for content for
us because everyone's on lockdown.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
They're not making moves. They're not going to be in
the same city now they.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Are now they're all the NFL is here and well
we'll bring it to things will happen. Yes, So guys,
it's been a fun day. It's been a long day, Max, Yes, one,
good day one, but we've had all kinds of wall
to wall content from nine to five. We'll be back
again tomorrow with the same format basically, we'll be going
(41:47):
nine to five here on the Steelers Audio Network. And
we want to thank west Yuler, Jerry Dulac, Rob King
dropped by and spent some time here. Of course, my
partners Max Starks and Matt Williamson. We want to thank
Tyler Viittmeyer for a video in here the last three
hours udio. You can check that out on YouTube later
(42:08):
on tonight when he gets that up there. And we
also want to thank CJ. Wolfy and Justin Miller beck
in studio for logging all these long hours as well.
We also want to thank you for listening to this
edition of Steelers Nation Radio on the Steelers Audio Network.
I'm Dale Lallie. We'll be back again tomorrow
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