Steelers by the Decades, 70s

Members of the Steelers Radio Network team discuss Steelers – decade by decade.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We got the best offense, the best defense. When you
got the turn of good time firing open man there
it is, got a gunny ballard, the dealer drawing the
board inside, hand off the Harris on the cross buck
right elect. He goes into the end z for the touchdown,
hand office the Rocky Rocky driving through people. He's got
into the Edizon Puch doown Pittsburg. Here's Brad John giving

(00:20):
the frank got cuck cover to the left, big the
light and go to the end gold fund buck that right,
jaw back stal Hey, look they're coming because man ed
he hired it. We gotta thefting down busts up. He
doesn't hold it now has picked up on the flapper,
goes host the ball off the balls be take touchdown
by J. J. Thomas and la but here pull then

(00:44):
hand he Welcome to the Steelers Decade series, looking back
on great Steelers teams, one decade at a time. When
you want to talk about that seventies dynasty. Man, you
sit up, you can't respect you pay Humm is your host.
Hello and welcome to all in Steelers Nation. I'm Stan

(01:06):
Savant of the Steelers Radio Network. I am joined by
Dale Lally and Mike Presuda from the Steelers Radio Network
w d v E and s n R as well. Guys, welcome,
We're gonna begin our conversation talking about the dynasty years
the nineteen seventies. There is a perception um that Steeler

(01:26):
football began the day they drafted Joe Breen. That's not true.
There were a number of years before that, more than
thirty unsuccessful. But I thought when we talked about the
the nineteen seventies, the foundation was actually laid for this
uh in the late nineteen sixties, two major events, the

(01:47):
first one leading to the second one, and that is
our Rooney, the Chief, the patriarch of Pittsburgh Sports turned
the reins over to his son, Dan, and Dan brought
a while still at hearing, to the Rooney way, if
you will. He created a new way. He was more
business like and understood you know the business. I mean,
the Chief, God love him, you know his his buddies

(02:10):
were making draft picks and so was he and that
sort of thing. And I just what I thought we'd
started off by saying that maybe the first major move
on the chessboard was having Dan Rooney take over. Well
and stand, let's test the stage for that as well.
And I'm gonna go back to the nineteen sixty five
NFL Draft. The Steelers traded uh in nineteen sixty four,

(02:31):
their first round draft pick the next year to the
Chicago Bears for a couple of okay veterans. Is that
the Scott Appleton deal? Yeah, okay, okay, so the Bears.
Then the Steelers wind up with what would have been
the third overall pick in that draft in nineteen sixty five,
And they they were doing this throughout the sixties. They
would trade future picks for veteran guys because Buddy Parker

(02:52):
didn't like young guys, didn't trust the rookies. So in
sixty five, the Bears take with the third pick that
they acquired from the Steelers, Dick Buckus. With the next pick,
the Bears take GAYL Sayers. The picks after that, the
next pick after that was Craig Morton. Joe Namath went
with the twelfth pick in that round in the first

(03:13):
round that year. So I I really think Dan Rooney's
looking at this and going, we gotta stop doing this.
We gotta stop giving away these picks for these so
so veterans that they're they're they're done. They've they've been
used up somewhere else, and so it's time to start
acquiring and keeping these picks ourselves and making and then
turning those guys into players. So it was the stage

(03:34):
was set there for everything that Dan did with it,
with what happened in the sixties, and we can't trade
away picks anymore. We gotta keep them. Yeah, not only
keep them guys. But shortly after that they got Bill
Nun involved front and center, and then they not only
kept their draft picks, they started finding some pretty good players,
some Hall of famers, and that really took off into

(03:54):
seventies like a jet plane. But uh, it started a
little bit before that, and the rest, as we like
to say round here, is history, and that yeah, that's
you know, it's still to this day. They believe in
building through the draft, and they they they've adhered to
that until they traded for Devon Bush. Uh you know it,
traded away of a first round pick for Minka Fitzpatrick
and traded up for Devon Bush. Those are two completely

(04:16):
out of character moves and back to back years for uh.
They Yeah, every once in a while you'd see a
trade up, but to do that and back to back
years to make that big move like that, where you
when they traded away the first round draft pick from
Minka Fitzpatrick. That was the first time they had done
that since the sixties, since those days of of of
you know, hey, give away the draft picks every year

(04:37):
for a player. And I remember I asked Art Rooney
the second about that, you know, was that a tough
decision for him? But there was there was a lot
of a lot of you know, pacing and stuff because
it went completely against what his father had done all
those years. That was you know, looking back at the sixties,
they didn't want to do that anymore. They didn't want
to give away picks for players. Well, we're gonna talk
about some of the players they drafted in a bit

(04:59):
um again putting Dan in charge and then ultimately he
was in charge of finding a replacement, uh to be
the head coach in nineteen nine and this guy's this
is a question that probably doesn't have an answer, but
knowing the impact that Chuck Noll had, would any of

(05:20):
this have happened if it had been any other not
only coach, but person? And I think those are two
separate issues I'm I'm bringing up here other than Chuck Noll.
I mean, I don't have a definitive answer because he
knows what happened, But we also know not only about
Chuck Nole the coach, but what Chuck Nole demanded out

(05:41):
of the organization and everybody ended and it was a
leap of faith. Chuck hadn't been a head coach before.
You know, he had coached under a lot of great
head coaches, said Gilman Don Shula, and of course played
for a great one as well. So you know a
lot of times when you get instant coach, and this
has been proven time and again with with the Patriots, um,

(06:05):
they want to come in and be just like the
guy that they were coaching under and try to emulate that.
Chuck didn't do that. Chuck came in and he was himself.
Maybe he took pieces, bits and pieces from what the
other guys did, which is what you do, but he
was still his own man. And you know, I think
so many times, you know, you see guys who played
under Lombardi or coached under Lombardi, or played under Belichick

(06:25):
and coached under Belichick, and it doesn't work out because
they think they have to do things that way, the
same way as the mentor, because that's what works well.
Players see through that too, And I think that's what
made Noel successful, is that what he was his own
man um. You know, there wasn't anything fake about Chuck Nol.
You know, he pretty much you know, a straight shooter

(06:46):
with that kind of stuff, and and and he had
his own personality and the players understood it. He wasn't
trying to be a tough guy just faking it. He
was pretty he was a strict guy. Uh, he wasn't
trying to be, you know, an intellectual and faking it.
He was an intellectual. Um. You know, he could talk
to players on any level. And I think that that
showed through and you know, confident enough that they interviewed

(07:08):
him shortly after the Colts lost to the Jets in
Super Bowl three, which was one of the great the
buckles in NFL history, you know, the upstart AFL finally
beating the NFL, which considered itself superior and considered the
ANFL a joke of a league. I think that actually interview,
actually the first interview actually took place in Miami. Yeah, yeah,
you know, that was not an easy thing for Don

(07:30):
Shula and Chuck Noll and all the colts. It was.
It was horrific. And uh I remember Dan Rooney referencing
that over the years that how how composed Noel was,
and how how we remained confident and how to do
his job, you know there at that time. Unfortunately I
was of an age where I was big time into

(07:52):
it at that but there was this thought that in
order to win in the NFL you had to be
like Vince Mbardi. Yeah, I mean, because he, you know,
was so dominant with the Packers and the re right um.
But everybody thought, I got a coach like that, Well
it doesn't. Players have a way of seeing through that.

(08:13):
If you're faking it, they'll see through it be genuine.
And that's what Nol was um of the time. I mean,
it would have been easy for him, you know, to
to to coach like Paul Brown or coach like any
of the said Gilame or Don Shula. That wasn't what
he did. He coached like Chuck Nole. And you know,
I think he was also on the Charger staff with

(08:33):
Al Davis. Right, it might have given what not to do,
but you know, you look at it and you know,
you've talked to different guys about that that first team
meeting that they had where he brought everybody in together
and he says, hey, look, most of you aren't gonna
be here when we when we're actually gonna be good. Um.
That that had to be a real kick in the
teeth for you know, these guys who have been playing

(08:54):
here for you know, five or six years, and what
you mean, we're not going to be playing here when
we're when we're good. We've been here, Who are you?
You know? What? What are your bona fides? The best
thing about that was and I've talked to rest in peace,
Ray Mansfield and Andy Russell because they were there when
that happened. And you're right, it was the first meeting.
I mean he came in and let him know exactly

(09:17):
what was about to happen. And then one of the
first things he does is get rid of his most
productive wide receiver, Roy Jefferson, and everybody knew that there
was gonna be a new sheriff in town. And where
did it all end up? I mean, from that kind
of beginning, the historic decade ended and resonated to such

(09:39):
a degree. I'm sure you guys know the old joke
that used to be told in these parts between the
fourth Super Bowl and the fifth Super Bowl, because you
know it took a little while. People used to say,
how many Steelers fans does it take to change the lightbulb?
And the answer was for one to change the lightbulb
and three to talk about how great the seventies were

(09:59):
or the or how how great the old light bulb was.
That's that's you know, UM, no question Chuck Um talking
to players, Um, he immediately commanded their respect. Uh, and
they found themselves living life lessons that he taught them.

(10:23):
I will say this, and I've been doing this for
a couple of years now. UM. I always and I
commiserated with some former players, and whenever I would interview
Chuck Noll, my first thought was not what I was
gonna ask him. My first thought in the back of
my mind was just don't say anything stupid, please, just

(10:46):
to myself, please, just because he he was intimidating. I mean,
you know, he'd have a smile on his face, but
he was not a guy to be trifled with. And
he he didn't tolerate fools very well. And he had
what I would always call the icy blue stare. If
he asked a question that he thought was beneath him stupid,

(11:12):
he would glare at you with those blue eyes and
give you the icy blue stare, and you knew that
you were he was like a deer and him, I'm
telling you, your entrail started started freezing. He had that
effect on you. And I've had players when they would
talk to him, where he would address them, they felt

(11:32):
the same way. Just don't say anything too stupid. Yeah,
and great coaches have that. It's I I don't know
how you describe it. I don't know what it is,
but it's that persona. It's that they're they're able to
exude that that confidence in that kind of I don't
want to call it arrogance because it wasn't. It's it's
not necessarily arrogance, but it's, you know, just a confidence in, hey,

(11:55):
I know what I'm doing here. You know that this
is you know, I've I've shown that I know what
I'm doing here. Am I gonna answer that question? I
know the answer to that question, but I may not
answer it, you know. And so you see it with
a lot of great coaches. But yeah, I know how
that he had that persona. It's you know again, there's
a reason why Cope called him the Emperor. I just
think of the same thing. Did you have a chance

(12:19):
to deal with him? I was just gonna say I
covered his last five years, and it was it was
my second job full time, and I was pretty fresh
out of college, and I used to think the same
thing I was walking into, like, just don't look like
an idiot. Don't have this guy say something that belittles
you in front of this whole room because nobody knows
who you are yet you're unproven. He was terrifying, intimidating. Uh.

(12:43):
There was an aur about him. And I don't think
that was because I was a young reporter who had
grown up a Steeler fan. I think that was because
he was just that way. He could give you that
look and those eyes would would just drill a hole
in you. Oh boy, oh boy, it's you know, it's
it's it's not like you know, Bill Carro would snap
at you and Tom Alan on occasion, but Chuck didn't
do that. Um. Uh, just a couple of things, if

(13:06):
you don't mind. Um In that line. In six, Scott
Campbell was the third string quarterback and in the middle
of the season, the Steelers cut him. Now in Pittsburgh
at that time, that was not only the lead story
in sports on TV, it was the leads story in

(13:28):
every TV news catch up. So I was at Channel four.
Then they sent me down to interview Chuck Noll about
cutting Scott Campbell. And you know, in those days, you know,
you went to Joe Gordon, say can I talk to
Chuck for a minute? You know, generally they were available,
wasn't you know, you don't have to make it up
while you're gonna go see the Pope or anything, although
that was his nickname, the Pope. And I asked about

(13:49):
Scott Campbell, and I was asking some follow up questions
and after about a couple you know, trying to back
the RM a little bit, you know, and I didn't
get the answer that I wanted. And then he stopped
and he said, do you want a debate and of interview? No, sir,
do you want to know I prefer not to debate
you on anything? Just a couple of more things. When

(14:13):
I first got to Pittsburgh, which is V six, I
was at three Rivers Stadium and it was late in
the afternoon. I was going to interview somebody I was
on radio. Then this very uh same station, I'm aout
now shows you up. My career has gone nowhere in
fifty years. But anyway, Um, I was walking back to
that coffee room at the back, in a lunch room,

(14:39):
back in the back, in the back, um, and I
was walking down the hallway and I walked in to
grab a cup of coffee, and there was Chuck Noll
sitting there. And I thought, oh, no, I have nothing
to say. I have nothing of any import to say. Um,
you know, you don't know what to talk about him,

(15:00):
you know, yeah right, I mean you know, you know,
you know, you knew, but he knew something about everything,
you know a lot about everything. And it turns out
and I'd only been there like a month in Pittsburgh
and I coach and he addressed me by name. That
was a shock, And he said, um, so what part
of Cleveland you grow up with? And I had no

(15:22):
idea that. I had no idea that he even knew
who I was, let alone that I And so it
turns out that we talked about Cleveland. Um. And because
that's where he grew up, that's where he grew up.
It turns out we were actually born in the same hospital.
So we talked about that. You wonder where I grew
up and so on and so forth. But you always

(15:43):
got the impression he talked to you about anything and
he knew something, but if you mentioned football, the window
shades would come down in his eyes. And that was
the end of the conversation and one of the things
I think it's the proudest moment of my entire career.
Back in the day, when I was still at Channel four,
they had ABC Monday Night Football and the Steelers were
gonna be on Monday Night Football, and the station wanted

(16:05):
to do an hour special eight until nine, and they
wanted me to do a sit down interview with Chuck Noll,
who didn't do that. You know, he was available on
the prescott and post game that was about it, and
so the station asked. Joe Gordon got back to me, said, well,
Chuck will do it, but only if Stan does the interview.

(16:27):
Uh just kill me now, I'm ready to go. That
was fine, had been fine with me. Yeah, he was
that kind of guy. I mean, you mentioned the the
the ability to talk about any subject at length. Um,
that's not every football coach. Uh there are a lot

(16:47):
of football coaches that I've dealt with over the years,
whether it be high school, college, whatever that that's all
I know is football. And if you ask him who
the president, you know, who who's the vice president right now?
They couldn't tell you, whereas no probably tell you, probably
give you the list of every vice president that's you know,
the United States has had. And he debated. He debate
you in politics too. Yeah, if if you got into that,

(17:10):
he would he would debate you about politics. Yeah, he was.
He was unique. And uh Dale's point about him being
the anti coach is really well taken. You know, there
were no stories about him staying in his office and
sleeping on a cot, and all of his assistants no,
but I mean all of his assistants really appreciated that.

(17:30):
I got to know a few of them over the years,
George Pearls and Dick Hoke, and they always talked about
how you could actually have a life and a family
and still be a coach for the Steelers and still
win the Super Bowl. Because I think nol knew that
there was a point where if you didn't get your
work done in a certain amount of time, it wasn't
gonna happen. So, you know, staying up all night wasn't
gonna do anybody any good. And uh, like most things,

(17:54):
it was the right call. Those guys really appreciated the
way he treated them and uh, you know, the respect
and loyalty he showed them, and they gave it back
as much as they could. And the players years later
still speaking glowing terms about what he meant to their
personal figure. Yeah he was, he was. He's a renaissance man.

(18:14):
He was a father figure. Um. You know, we will
always joke about getting on with your life's work. He
really believed in that. A lot of you know, a
lot of players come in there twenty three at that time,
relatively speaking, they're making a lot of money that thinks
are gonna be set for life. Wasn't that much money
actually in those days. But they thought, you know, I'll
play football Toll ninety. He said, you know, you're not.
You might not even be playing football next week if

(18:36):
you're not careful. He was. Uh, he he just set
the tone. Um, and so then so the foundation of
the dynasty. No franchise ever is successful unless the people
who are above the players are successful. People ask me
all the time. While the Steelers are continually successful, look

(18:57):
at the top and it filters on down, certainly with
Dan rue Any. The last thing all you need to
know about that organization is that both Chuck and Dan
were private pilots. Chuck sold Dan his plane. He was
the coach. He sold his private plane to the owner.
It's supposed to be the other way around. But that's

(19:17):
that tells you something about Chuck Nole. So the foundation
is there. Now the actual work has to begin, and
when we return, we're gonna talk about some of the
players and the games that made the seventies what they were,
the impact not only to win Super Bowls, but the
impact on the community. Steelers Nation. You listening out there,

(19:42):
and clearly they were successful, but it transcended just winning championships.
Just in general, Guys, any team that wins four championships
in six years, I don't care if you're playing miniature
golf for Tiddley wins, you're gonna be immensely popular or
mensely hated or mensely hated. We're talking to Steelers Nations,

(20:05):
so it's a it's a one sided conversation here. Maybe
someone's out there you know, jealous of what they accomplished. UM.
I don't know they will ever see that again. UM.
But it seems to me that there were two factors
here that during those years, the region, not just the
city of Pittsburgh, the entire region UM was going through

(20:27):
great economic distress. The steel mills were closing or had closed.
People were out of work, UH, generations of steel workers
and people who dug coal out of the earth. UM
for the first time generations were there. Their livelihood was
taken away from them, and it was a hard time economically.

(20:50):
The city of Court did a great job in transitioning,
but at that point they had not and having that
football and I've had people telling me that us we're
going through tough times, but it gave them a great
deal of solace to say, yeah, maybe tough times, and
we got the best damn football team in the world.

(21:13):
It was a vicarious reinforcement of who they were, what
they wanted to be. And secondarily, and I jump in
on this, it wasn't only that they won, it was
the way they won. It had Pittsburgh written all tough
and you know we're you know, we'll we'll stand our ground,

(21:34):
will smash you if we have to. And I do
think that that further ingratiated the team to the region,
and I had players tell me that they sense that too. Yeah,
there's no doubt about that stand. I mean, if you
think about the player who personifies those teams to a
lot of Steeler fans, it's Jack Lamback Lambert. And you know,

(21:54):
to me, Lambert is a great player. There's there's no
fans or butts about it. But if I were picking, uh,
the better player, I would take Jack Ham. But Lambert
was everything that Steeler fans loved about those teams. Joe
Green was everything that Steeler fans loved about those teams.
Tough and nasty and just had that pet persona that

(22:17):
you better not mess with us. Uh, you know, we're
gonna kick your butt. And so those guys really kind
of led the way on that whole thing. And you know,
to your point, um, you know a lot of people
moved away from Pittsburgh during that time, and that's why,
but the team was still so success successful that they

(22:38):
could still you know, they could still look at that
and be proud of being from Pittsburgh even though they've
moved to California or they've moved to Arizona, They've moved
to Florida or somewhere like that. Um No, I'm from Pittsburgh,
and that's something that's rare. You know, I didn't grow
up in Pittsburgh, per se. I grew up in western Pennsylvania,
but not Pittsburgh. Around here, if you're from like an

(23:01):
eight county area, you're from Pittsburgh. You don't say you're
from Beaver County, or you're from Washington County, or you're
from you know, Fayette or Westmoreland County. I'm from Pittsburgh.
You don't say you're from Cleveland. I can tell you
that firsthand. That one thing you never say. But it's
because of that football team. Because of that. Hey you're
from Pittsburgh. What about those Steelers and everywhere you've we've

(23:23):
gone since then. You know, Mike and I make the
road trips all the time. And you go into a
team hotel and there's there's six hundred to a thousand
Steeler fans in the hotel running around waiting to see
these guys show up. It's unbelievable. Some of them go
to the bars at night to dale, which you know,
I've heard stories about I've heard tale of that as well.
Yeahs from those guys from this from the seventies. Still

(23:48):
you still see the Lamber jerseys. You still see Brad Green.
I traveled with the team in the seventies, Um, and
it was you know, it was remarkable and pandemonium, and
people had moved away. But that's why even today, when
eight ten thousand Steeler fans show up, they're not traveling
from Pittsburgh there from the area closer to where, whether
it's Dallas, whether it's l A, wherever they are, that's

(24:10):
where they're coming from. Mike. Yeah. And you know, getting
back to Dale's point about the eight county area, I
guarantee you back in the seventies, everybody had one of
those black and gold tossil caps that you know, where
you would fold up the front. It would be yellow
with the Steelers logo and the little on the tack
and a little ball on the top. Those things were everywhere, man,

(24:32):
and and the fans wanted to be attached to this
so desperately. I mean, the Kicker had a fan club,
Girella's Guerrillas, and there was Lambert's Lunatics, and there was
Franco's Italian Army and there was the uh Shonka good
Ham fan club. Uh, the water Boy probably had one.
I mean it was just, uh, it was a cult,

(24:54):
kind of still as a cult, and you know in
a way that a cult can be good. I remember, Um,
they were playing a playoff game UM in in Denver.
There's a little bit later on. Remember that guy wore
the hard hat with two beer cans on the side
of the helmet and a straw. I flew with him
on a flight to Denver, and you know he wanted

(25:15):
to strike of a conversation. I wouldn't and he was
on there. He was on with the hat on. And
I never didn't do that today. No, you couldn't do
that today. You don't get on a flight that way. UM.
And I remember before Super Bowl fourteen, before I left
Pittsburgh and one of the downtown big buildings, UM, somebody
in there inside their office window put Noel bowl for UM,

(25:37):
and just the whole the whole city would just just
you know, it just it just engulfed everything that you did.
It really did again to your initial point. UM. At
that point with in Pittsburgh, people needed something to be
proud about. They need something to rally around because you know,
unemployment was and inflation was through the roof and ask

(26:00):
prices where you know, we're rationing gas in the seventies
and and uh, you know, it's just it gave them
something that they could be proud of and to be
proud of being from Pittsburgh. You know, Pittsburgh still had
that it's still had that reputation around the country of
a sooty, dirty city, and you know that that gave people.

(26:20):
You know, I'll never forget the the uh, you know
that it's I think it was a seventy nine after
the Pirates also won the World Series, and it was
the city the City of Champion. Sports Illustrated cover with
with Willie Star. Yeah, I've got that. I've got that framed.
It's it's my on my den wall. It's one of
my altars. A matter of fact. Um, when that picture
came out, I was just so struck with it. I

(26:41):
was talking about it on my talk show, which at
that time was on uh six to seven thirty. Back then,
cover Sports Illustrated was massive, absolutely, and then and and
and then the inside was Stargel and Bradshaw in uniform
with all those steel workers surrounding. That's what I've got frame,
not the cover. I've got that picture. So I'm talking

(27:03):
about it, and a guy calls in and he's one
of the steel workers in the picture. In the picture,
he was sitting on the ground sort of Bradshaw's right.
We had a conversation about it that and I haven't frame.
It just was so cool. Was probably the last remaining
steel mill in Pittsburgh at that at that point exactly, Yeah,
at least the one was working. Um somehow even now

(27:25):
when when television comes into for Monday night football or
something like that, somehow they find a working steel mill.
A lot of times when they when they come to pas.
I don't know where they're getting these shots at, whether
they're stock shots or what, because I don't evene it's
gotta it's gotta be there's something. You know, they might
be importing it from China's. But yeah, I mean that

(27:48):
that's you know, having that title the city of champions
and winning those four championships in football in six years. Again,
that it was it was a sense of pride with
with with the not just this the city, but the
area that and again, so you didn't say, well, I'm
from Beaver County. He said, no, I'm from Pittsburgh. You
didn't say I'm I'm from Greensburg. Where's that. No, I'm

(28:10):
from Pittsburgh. That's that's where i'm That's where I grew
up at. And everybody said, oh Steelers, Yeah, we we
know that team, we know the city. Well it also
you know led to I think one of the classic
lines from Howard Coastell when he said, when you come
to play Pittsburgh, you don't just have to play the team,
you have to play the whole city. And that's true today. Um,

(28:31):
not only with the Steelers, but you know, the wild
card game and any Penguin playoff game you come too,
You're in for a rough ride. That's the way. That's
just the way we are. Let's talk about even a mike.
I was gonna say, even the years they didn't win
ended up being memorable in those days. And there's two
of them that stand out to me in particular. One

(28:53):
was nineteen seventy three, which was the year after the
Immaculate Reception. Now they still haven't won a Super Bowl yet,
but the feeling was kind of like, hey, that Franco
thing was magic. Last year We're the team of Destiny
and all that, and end up losing three in a
row late in the season and they get beat by
the Raiders. Uh and UH did not get to the
Super Bowl. But that was the year that Roy Blunt Jr.

(29:14):
Of Sports Illustrated followed the Steelers around all year and
was given incredible access to the team, and he ended
up writing a book called About Three Bricks shival Load. Now,
for for my money, this is one of the three
finest books ever written about pro football. The other two
h One is a biography of Vince Lombardi by a
guy named David Moran, is called When Pride Still Mattered,

(29:36):
And then one is fictional. It was written by Dan Jenkins.
It's called Semi Tough. But if you have tremendous, tremendous
if you haven't read About Three Bricks shival Load. I
used to take it to training camp with me every
year and read it at camp. I did that for
like my first fifteen years. I started going to training
camp in seven. That gives you great insight into what

(29:57):
was brewing for the seventies and with the history of
the t was and how it was turning around and
why and then The other year that was remarkable was
nineteen seventy six. They had a million injuries. Tony Dungee
ended up playing quarterback for them at one point. The
last nine games of the season, they had five shutouts
and they gave up a combined twenty eight points. And

(30:20):
I remember Dave Wants that he was the Cowboys defensive
coordinator when he was interviewing for the job that ultimately
went to Bill cower In Wants that talked about how
he had that Steelers seventy six schedule up on the
wall in his office in Dallas, because that was the standard.
If you want to be the best defense, you better
do that. And it was you know, it didn't matter

(30:40):
who they didn't have on offense. Okay, we gotta shut
him out. We'll shut him out. In the background, people
remember that Terry Bradshaw Um got hurt in Cleveland, Turkey,
Joe Jones, Mike Cruz, the backup from Boston College, a
rookie um. They had no choice but to run the ball.
Limited passing Franklin Hockey each gained a thousand yards um

(31:02):
that year. And you're right, Mike, the defense was it
was just it was astounding. It was such a source
of pride and maybe morphing into this. I once asked Dan,
of all the teams, you know, the four Super Bowl teams,
what was the best. I always thought it was a
seventy eight team because they combined Chuck let him go

(31:22):
the offense, and you know, God, they had Star Wars
and Swan Jimmy Smith. People forget about him. Brad Shows
has his best. But Dan said seventies six because of
the defense, and of course they had the injuries in
the playoff game in Oakland. Um any thoughts about maybe
not even a non SUPERO winning team, Mike, Since you

(31:43):
brought up seventy six, what might have been the best
team from that decade? You know, I I I like
the sentiment, But to me, if you're gonna be the
best team, you better have won the championship. Um. You know,
if you want to, if you want into a Penguins
player from the early nineties and you tell them the
best team to pay has ever had was nineteen ninety three,
they'll quickly tell you what we won the Cup into.

(32:05):
So no, like I mean, the idea is to win
the trophy. But those were certainly teams that did everything.
But and Uh. It leads us back to what we
were talking about with Chuck Nol. What a great coach
he was. Think of how they played early in the decade,
and then think of how they played late in the decade,
and how he wasn't yet, He wasn't married to one

(32:27):
system or one style. He adapted with the times, he
worked with what he had. You know, probably a lot
of people might not remember that they had three starting
quarterbacks in nineteen seventy four, the first year they won
the Super Bowl. It wasn't like Terry Bradshaw suddenly matured
and he was this great player. They started him, They
started Joe Gilliam, and they started Terry Hanraddy and they
still ended up winning the Super Bowl. I mean they

(32:49):
I don't know too many coaches that could do it
in ways as differently as Nold did. Uh. The only
one that really comes to mind to me is Joe Gibbs,
who won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks. Like
you said, Chuck adapted when they changed the rules and
said look what I have, uh, And he just opened
it up and they still had a running game. The
best team to you Dale probably seventy eight, I think

(33:09):
because of that marriage of of offense and defensive defense
was still good enough that it was. It was still
a pretty good defense. By seventy nine, they had started
to get a little long in tooth. You'd seen some
of the names started to hang it on, but the
offense and seventy eight was was starting to come into
its own. So you had, you know, the marriage of
both of those units where you know they were. They

(33:30):
were pretty dominant again, a fourteen and two team that
that was their best record of the decade too. And
one game that they played they lost the Rams. The
game meant nothing to them. They started out seven and
oh the Oilers beat him at three Rivers on a
Sunday night or a Monday when it wasn't Sunday night
back then Monday night football. Um, remember that, and beat
him soundly. But of course, you know the Oilers pay

(33:52):
the ultimate prices. They did seemingly every year. Um at
the end of the year. Uh, I want to go
back to something that Joe Green said that it was
Franco that was the missing piece. Um, a lot of
moving parts there you have the great draft of seventy four.

(34:13):
Was Franco the missing piece? Well, I know, Joe Green
said at one point, we didn't win bleep till we
got Frank o' harris. I think most, I think most,
if not all people. I'm certainly among them. Joe Green
is the greatest Steeler ever. But to me, Franco's number two.
You know, I think when you look at it, stand um,

(34:34):
he led the team in rushing twelve consecutive years. That's
ridiculously hard to do. I don't care what level of
football you're doing. People talk about now that, oh you shouldn't,
you shouldn't draft a running back in the first round.
He led your team in rushing twelve consecutive years. You
won four Super Bowls with that guy. You didn't win
any before that. So yeah, he was a big part

(34:55):
of it. And I'm with Mike. I think he belongs
in you know, certainly, you know, if not in the
top to he's certainly in the top three or four.
Uh And and I can understand Joe Green saying that,
you know, there's a reason why when the Steelers drafted
Naj Harris this year that you saw on social media,
some of the defensive guys come out and say, oh,
this is great. If you're getting five to ten fewer

(35:17):
plays snaps per game on defense because this running back
is and and back in the seventies that was certainly
the case because everybody ran the football. That's a big deal. Uh,
and so your your defense is fresher. It allows them
to play harder and and go full speed of the time.
And they knew that he was gonna be there. He
wasn't remarkably durable too. Yeah, it's I mean, you can't

(35:42):
argue the numbers and what he meant. And still, um,
even when they went to a more of a passing
game be getting in seventies seven and seventy eight, Um,
you know, he was still you know, a factor. One
of the things that always struck me about those teams
and their ability to run the ball, and they did
it on necessity. In seventy six they started one and four.
I'll never forget the shock of that. I was in Minnesota.

(36:05):
They played a Monday night game that was lost number four,
and it was like zombie land around there. And then
you know, then then they lose Bradshaw. But that offensive line,
I don't think. I think maybe maybe Larry Brown made
a Pro Bowl, um, but that offensive line was so

(36:26):
unheralded yet so incredibly effective running that trap offense which
suited Franco's game. And yes, you obviously had Mike Webster.
He he was the exception. But that offensive line performed
so brilliantly together. Uh. And you hardly ever here guys
mentioned Sam Davis or Moon Mullins, or Gordon Gravel or

(36:49):
Jim clak Um, Larry Brown, John Cole. Uh. They just
you know, it was a class example of five guys
working together. Yeah, and they did the uh intimidation part
two once they got rolling. They were famous for rolling
up the sleeves and the cold weather games and coming
out like, uh, it's it's five degrees and sleeting, and

(37:10):
we are in our element and you are in trouble
and we're gonna run the ball right down your throat.
That's you know, when people talk about I think when
uh we saw when uh you see some different receivers
retire in recent years and everybody says, was this guy
hall of famer? We saw it with Edelman recently, and
people immediately and say, well, Lynn Swansea hall of famer.

(37:32):
They threw the ball twenty times a game, if that
fifteen sometimes, you know, so you know it's a it's
a different ball game, so that the game was really
one up front and the Steelers on the offensive and
defensive line. Even though that offensive line hasn't gotten the
credit and maybe it deserves. We're as good as, if
not better than, anybody else up front. And you'll switch

(37:54):
into you're talking about, you know, guys who made the
team that you know, there were so many. I mean
there's nine Hall of famers, including the head coach from
that group obviously on defense, Joe Green. Uh. I totally
agree that. Mike was contacted me once a couple of
years ago and he said a list of the greatest
twenty Steelers. I did that and you never used it,

(38:14):
So it's still there for you if you ever want
to do that. But I look at Mel Blunt after
Joe Green as perhaps and again we're talking about Jack
cam and Jack Lambert. Uh. You know we're talking about,
you know, great players. Mike Wagon I think is vastly
underrated as a player, Elsie Greenwood, Dwight White. But mel

(38:37):
Blunt also, I think was almost was the equivalent of
Frank Olaw on offense because of what he allowed the
Steelers to do well. They changed the rules for melt blood.
So that's a pretty good argument. Uh, I got a
I got a hard time putting him ahead of jack Ham,
But I got a hard time putting in uh in

(38:58):
front of mel I got a hard time Ham in
front of milk blood too. So I think it's you know,
neck and neck right there. For number three. Jack Ham
was just an exquisite player. And uh boy, he played
all three downs two. Can you believe that? Shocking? Shocking? Uh?
You know, ste wouldn't offer said he grated higher than
anybody on the team when he grated tape, he grated

(39:21):
higher than anybody on the defense. Always always in the
right spot, always made the play. Um you know with
with the other thing that team didn't have was a
nickelback because they didn't need one. I had eleven guys
who could play, you know, we had We had GT.
Thomas on a couple of summer ago out of training
camp and we were talking with j T about that
and he said, we had like three defenses that we ran.

(39:43):
We're just so much better than everybody else. Would run
to say it, run the same thing again, running again.
There was no subbing guys in and out. There was
It was just okay, we're just better than you, and
our guys up front are gonna win. And it made
life easy on the cornerbacks. But the cornerbacks are really
good too. And No, by the way, you had two
great safeties over the top it the linebacker group was.
It was just maybe you could make You could certainly

(40:04):
make the argument. And it's the greatest thing. I know
what people want to talk about the Bears or the Ravens. No,
seventy Steelers teams were the best defenses of all time,
no doubt. And it's just coming into three rivers. I
want to ask Joe Green, he said, I asked him,
did you intimidate other teams? And he said, well, they
weren't physically afraid of us. He said, but we go

(40:26):
out on that carpet and we'd start warming up and
you look at the other end of the field and
you just look at him, and they look at them,
you know, across the field. And Joe said, they knew
they were in for a real rough ride. It was
gonna be a long day. Absolutely, they played with a swagger. Um.
They played with a joid. D viv Dwhite White, you know,

(40:47):
doing his billy white shoes. John's limitation. Um, oh, they
were something. They were something. Um four super Bowls in
six years and did it with panash in their own
Steelers Western Pennsylvania kind of way. The Steelers were the
team of the decade. As a matter of fact, one
of the NFL films was entitled with John h Team

(41:12):
of the Decade. But there were some really good teams
that they had to deal with. Um, the Oakland Raiders,
the Houston Oilers, the Dallas Cowboys, you know, teams like that,
UM nine Hall of Famers. Okay, but how were they
able to navigate? It's not like now. You know, now

(41:34):
maybe you know one team, two teams, Now there's four
or five, or then there's four or five you gotta
deal with, yeah, you know. And back then to everybody
would have you know, the Broncos had a little run there.
The the Vikings were you know, a force in the
NFC as well, and yet the Steelers were the team
that that rose, that rose to the top of all that.
I remember writing a column back in two thousand four

(41:56):
when the Steelers lost to the Patriots in the in
the a f C Championship that maybe now Steeler fans
could look at that, you know, what happened in the
seventies too. You know, if you're if you're an Oakland
Raiders fan, you hate the Steelers of the seventies. I mean,
they had a bunch of Hall of Famers too, and
they couldn't get past the Steelers on a consistent basis.

(42:17):
There was kind of that same symmetry there between the
Steelers and Patriots early in the in the in the
in the two thousands that you know, it's it's frustrating
I think for fans that like, hey, we got a
really good football team here, but we can't beat those guys.
And so you know, the Steelers were a well oiled
machine that that you know they made you know, they

(42:37):
had the Hall of Famers, but it was also the
pieces around the Hall of Famers that that made it work.
You can have great players, individual players, but it takes
a team, I think, to win, and that's what they did.
They at least the Raiders broke through and one a
Super Bowl. That that's seventies six team. Uh, the Houston
Oilers are telling the Raiders to hold hold their beers frustrating,

(42:58):
They're gonna kick the door, kicked the down. You know
there there might still be a Houston Oilers if they
didn't have to go to Three River Stadium for a
couple of playoff games. Because that was a really good
outfit that pub Phillips had. It just wasn't quite good enough.
And then that one call on the Mike Renfro pass
and then the ends up. Did they get it right?
Did they get it wrong? Did they get a break?

(43:19):
Did the Oilers get the short end of the stick.
It happened like it happened, But uh, you know, it's
it's tough when you're the second best team of your
era and you have to keep playing the first best team.
If you're era, nobody remembers number two. Well, I know,
Dan Pastorini wouldn't have anywhere near as many aches and
paint if he never if he never had to play

(43:40):
the Steelers and bum Phillips kicked the door down, and
you know, they they were really good teams. I would
never quite do it. The thing that struck me about
that team is that there were some different people. Mean,
Andy Russell retired after they lost in Oakland, and you know,
Robin Cole came in, and you know, dif Ron Johnson,
you know, came in. But the core group never lost

(44:03):
its hunger for winning. When you you see a team
that is dominant, Um, sometimes okay, you know, we we won.
We were kind of happy with that. The more winning
the gats winning, the more those players won, the more
they wanted to win. Yeah, you wanted to go out
on top. You you know, you you're at the top

(44:23):
of the mountain. And again you're you're the bully at
the top of the mountain. You don't want somebody else
to come in and knock you off of there and
become the bully. And so you know, you didn't really
you know that. That's seventy nine Super Bowl. Um. You know,
as Mike mentioned in the previous segment that you know,
the Steelers are just kind of holding on their defensively,
you know, Joe Green, mel Blunt. Uh, some of these
guys were getting up in age, but they were still

(44:45):
good enough to to get the job done on a
consistent basis because the offense had had, you know, picked
up its game as well. Uh. That one of the
stats that just is amazing to me. And that's seventy
nine team. They turned the foot ball over themselves. I
think it was forty eight times that year on offense.

(45:07):
But yet they were still able to overcome that because
they forced so many of their game. Yeah, I mean,
it was again a different era, but you know, they
had games that year. I'm looking here at the stats.
They had an eight turnover game against the Chargers and
obviously they lost that one, but they forced four turnovers.
They are twelve turnovers in the football game. It was
a Sunday night game. I was there. It was a

(45:27):
long I can tell you that, I bet. Uh. You know,
they had some other games, you know they had I'm
looking at like, they had a game against the Bengals
that they lost. They turned all over nine times. I
mean that's seventeen turnovers in two games. And of course
they lost both of those games. But there were other
games here they had five or six four turnover games.
You're not supposed to win those games, but they did

(45:49):
because they were so good. They just they were able
to overcome things like that comment. Go ahead, I was
gonna say. The other cool thing about that team was
the personality and how they just let it rip. You know,
I just shake my head when people of this ear
and get upset about Twitter and TikTok and these things. Uh,

(46:10):
they had a guy named Ernie Holmes who had an
arrow shaped into his head and became known as Arnie
Arrowhead Holmes. L. C. Greenwood wore the gold shoes, you know,
different from everybody else. Oh my god, what's going on here?
To celebrate a touchdown or two as well? Yeah, once
in a one, Yeah, choreographed celebrating uh Frenchifucal used to

(46:31):
wear capes and I think he was he the guy
that had uh gold fishing them? Yeah, I mean, come on,
how could they have one despite all that distraction? Oh
my god. They must have been Stuperman, you know, you
have you know Lambert with his personality, he wasn't shy
about you know. I'll never I'll never forget. This was

(46:53):
after the Assault game in nineteen seventy six, the George
Atkinson Lynn Swan thing the trial in the off season
and Dallas came to three Rivers. Excuse me, the Raiders
came to three Rivers the following season. And I remember
interviewing Jack the week of that game, and I was
talking to him. He's sitting there smoking up butt. Uh,

(47:15):
you know Dart and you know a lot of them
did back then, And I was asking about you know,
otis sists drunk and you know there's a lineup of killers.
You know, their team photo was taken in the post
office and hanging on the wall they had You had
some bad dudes on that team. And I know you
lambered about these guys coming in and what happened in
the playoff game in seventy six. And he looked at

(47:35):
me and he growled and he said, we don't exactly
have forty angels in here either. You know, there's some.
There was some. You know, Glenn Edwards was still around.
You know, he was an assassin um talking about the
hunger factor, Mike, how much of that do you think
was Chuck? I mean it was the personalities of the players,
but Chuck, they didn't always win, but he kept them

(47:57):
focused and and they was hungry and seventy nine as
they might have been before they won the first one. Yeah,
and I think, um, I'm drawing a blank here on
the name of the author who just wrote the Chuck
Noll book recently. Yeah, I apologize for that because it's
a great piece of work. But one of the teams

(48:18):
in that is how to know it wasn't winning the championship,
It was the doing you know, he he wanted to
do all the things you had to do to win
the championship. That was the challenge, It wasn't Uh, it
was the means to him, not the end. And and
didn't he also say stand at one point that the
Altar Boys should be in church on Sunday. Get back

(48:40):
to that, getting back to that, we don't exactly have
forty agels or forty angels in our locker room either.
But or if he late touchdown? Uh people you're talking
about you know him, um piling on um. He said,
I didn't see any white flags out there. He wasn't

(49:00):
apologized and was scoring a l a touchdown. But to
your point, I think he had a maniacal desire to
do it as well as it could be done every Sunday.
By the way, Michael McCambridge is the guy name in
case something. Yeah, yeah, I apologized Michael because that that's
another fantastic book. I feel like a book of the
Month club here. But yeah, you know, Chuck Moll was

(49:23):
never satisfied. And uh, the other thing I remember about
him is, uh, George Pearlos became the coach at Michigan
State when I was an undergrad there and uh, Pearlos
of course was on the defensive staff for those four
Super Bowls. And I nactually kind of gravitated to him
because I had grown up a Steeler fan. And he
showed me a picture he had in his office of
the assistance in the locker room posing after one of

(49:47):
the Super Bowl wins, and he said, what do you
what do you notice about that picture? I'm like, well,
you know, a bunch of guys whatever there was, they
hadn't been doused with champagne. Their hair wasn't all mussed up,
they hadn't uh, their shirts were tucked, and it's not
like they've been jumping around losing their mind because they
won the Super Bowl. And and Parla said that was
because they expected to do that. Yeah, I know. I'm

(50:08):
talking to Dick Hoke. I said, what were the four champions?
Was the most? And well, he was around for six
what was the most? Specially said seventy nine because Bud
Carson was with the Rams and a lot of people
were saying they'll not be able to win. Bud Carson's
gone now, Lionel Taylor was gone. He was with the Rams.
Two that was sweet to them. Uh, last thing I

(50:30):
wanted to ask guys to throw your thoughts in. Um,
everybody understands the foundational legacy of the seventies. Do you
think that that legacy is still part of the Steelers personae?
I mean, is there still that awareness? I mean, these
players weren't born then. Um, Mike Tomlin was born. Um

(50:55):
he was two or three when they won their first
Super Bowl. Um. Do you think that that leg he
still exists? I do? I mean, you know every day
when those players walk into the facility, when you go
upstairs at the the U p m. C Rooney Sports Complex,
the six Super Bowl trophies are sitting there, and parade
across the hall from them are all the Super Bowl teams,
the photos of the Super Bowl team. So it's real easy,

(51:17):
and I think the Steelers do a really good job
as well of of informing young players of who was
there before them, because you go back into the into
the into the offices back there, and you'll see the
great defensive backs, photos of all the great defensive backs
in history, in team history, photos of all the great
defensive linemen, and team history linebackers, all the different positions

(51:39):
are all represented there. And so I think if you
don't have an understanding of that when you arrive, you'll
certainly have an understanding of that after a couple of
weeks just walking. It's like a museum for football. It's
like going to the Hall of Fame where you can
walk around and go, wow, Yeah, these guys, these guys
did a lot, and there aren't many teams that can.
You know, they're just aren't many teams that can do

(52:01):
that and take you back through history like that. You
heard it with Nause Harris again when when when he
was drafted talking about the legacy of Steeler running backs
here starting with Frank o' harris. He could have gone
back farther to John Henry Johnson and guys of that
nature bullet Bill Dudley. But um, I do think there's
a there is a carry over from that, you know,
they feel the I don't know if it's pressure, but

(52:22):
it's certainly something vibe that they feel that there's a
a expectation of winning. Yeah. I think the guys they
just drafted have no idea about the seventies, and probably
a lot of guys in their locker room thill. But
Mike Tomlins certainly does, and he I think he takes
great responsibility in trying to add to that even more

(52:43):
than he already has. And the fan base certainly loves
it because, as well as we all know, the only
championships the matter are six Super Bowls. You know, what
the Packers and Bears did in the sixties and the
fifties and the forties doesn't really count. Uh, you know,
stairway to seven as a real nice ring to it.
I think it's I think it's stand not just part

(53:03):
of the persona the friend. I think it's the identity
of the franchise, you know, it's it's Uh, it's interesting,
um about mentioning the fan bases. As we wrap up,
I want to interview Dan Rooney about the Steelers are
part of the fabric of this community, um, and they
feed off one another. Uh. And I asked Dan, you know,

(53:25):
why do you think that is? And he said, because
people and I'm paraphrasing, but it's fairly accurate. Quote. People
here know the game. He said. If you grow up
around western Pennsylvania, if you're not playing football, you better
be a cheerleader in the band. The people here know

(53:46):
the game and you can't fool them. And so they
The Steelers have always felt accountable to the fan base
because they're not trying to pull the wool over anyone's
eyes there. They don't have cheerly theres and mascots and
it's football. You know, you're not seeing Sir Perr running
around on the field and jumping on live balls as
we saw one time down in Jacksonville. Is that right?

(54:08):
The one? Is that? The right winner? Is that jackson
de Ville? Mike, Uh, you got me. I think it
was Sir Perr that jumped on a live football one
time because the mascot was on. They don't need all that.
You don't need, you know, uh, you know, the shooting
hot dogs into the stands and things of that nature.
People are there to see the football game. They want
to see the Steelers and they want to see the
Steelers win. That's what they're there for. Oh guys, this

(54:33):
was terrific um. Thanks so much for your input. Dale Alli,
Mike Presuda, w d v E, and the Steelers Radio network.
I'm stand savereign of ESPN Pittsburgh and whoever will give
me a job, and the Steelers Radio network on the
post game shows. Uh, it's been our pleasure to just
talk about and hopefully encourage you to think of some

(54:57):
favorite memories of yours the dynasty years of the nineteen seventies.
For everybody involved, thanks for listening to us here on
s n R and the Steelers platforms.