June 17, 2025 • 28 mins
From the defensive line to the outside and inside linebackers, every starter and most of the backups have the capability of being major contributors to the Steelers defensive front.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Deshaun Elliott contract extension Day here on the Steelers Standard,
Steelers Nation Radio and the Steelers Audio Network. Jacob said
something at the end of last segment about this could
be the year where this Steelers defense really comes together
and puts on its masterpiece because it has been really
one of the most star power defenses in the NFL
(00:31):
for a while now, right like their big three kind
of was above a lot of the other teams being
two's big threes that they had as well. They obviously
deserved it because they racked up all first team All pros,
Defensive Player of the Year for TJ. Watt, led the
league in sacks, led the league in interceptions if you're Minka,
led the league in old man's strength if you're Cam Hayward.
(00:54):
So they deserved it on their own equition, Like based
on the numbers they put up, even if they were
wearing Carolina Panthers jerseys, that would have been thought of
as one of the best trios in the league. But
you get elevated a little bit more with the mystique
of being on the Steelers too.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Of course history a great defensive team, so.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You again deserve to be thought of as the best
trio and football no matter who you play for. But
you kind of get cemented in that, or you had
been cemented in that for a while because you're You're Steelers, dude.
Even when the Steelers were in the Killer b era
and their defense was not good, people would you turn
on Sports Center and people would be like, well, you
know they're gonna play good defense, Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
You still have and you still had some guy like
Shazier was there, Cam Hayward was there, Like.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That was kind of when it was starting to Kyward
was there for sure, But with Shazier and then Watt
getting splashed in as a baby, that's when it started
to get moving in the right direction. But I'm talking
about like even before was there for the feet under them?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
My good, No, you're you're You're got a great point.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Like even though that, I mean looking back at the
names on that defense like Ross Cockroll was, Mike Mitchell,
Sean Davis.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
The secondary was was abysmal, and I mean I want
to like even then the the Steak though, carried them
into thinking that they're good a defense, like they're just
like whoa the defense today? We were in those reguys,
people didn't know existed who were on ESPN back then,
but would just confidently with their chests out be like, well,
(02:20):
you got to Pittsburgh in January, you're gonna have to
They're gonna play, know what, They're gonna score forty points
because that's what the Steelers do now in this era
is they just score more than everybody else.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But now the defense is really good. It just hasn't
ever really.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Put that undisputedly elite season together.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I think that's very fair to say. It's not taking shots.
It's not me saying that it's a bad defense or
it's been a bad defense. I think it's been a
very good defense to great defense at times. I think
it's shown moments and stretches where it was elite. It's
had elite games, for sure. It's had games where it's
just outright gone out there and won them football games.
I can think of a handful, just like season of
the first game of the year against the Falcons was
(03:02):
completely won by the defense.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I mean there were two games when the team scored
six field goals in a single game.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I mean, I know there was a big special teams
play in this one, but when they went up to
Buffalo a few years ago. Defense won that football game
on the opener angles Mit Trubisky was the quarterback.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Defense and special team. They picked Joe Brow four times?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Was it in that?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
In that four times?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And make it picked him off for a pick six
in the very first play from scrimmage of Joe Burrows season. Like,
it's weird that I just brought up examples that were
all first games of the year, But I also think
it's not a coincidence because I think this defense shows
its true elite nature early in the year as opposed
to later in the year, and I think there's a
lot of variables that go into that. I think naturally,
defenses can maybe kind of fade a little bit because
(03:47):
I think defenses start out ahead of the curve when
it comes to the football. Like offenses, it's all about timing,
you know what I mean, And offenses it takes a
little bit for offenses to heat up. So I think
that kind of catches up to defenses. So you could
see most defenses play better early in the season. Players
get banged up, maybe you're not as healthy as you
once were later in the year.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I think that obviously factors into it. And then for the.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Steelers specifically, there's definitely a case to be made for
the offenses just not on the field enough, and then
the defense is just so tired to come week fifteen,
week sixteen, week seventeen that it's just like it's almost
like we've played twenty games or twenty one games to
this point compared to some of the other defenses around
the NFL.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So you've seen the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Defense really burn bright early in the season and have
a bit of a fade late. Now, to be fair,
the teams of recent years have kind of had fade
moments late. Rudolph I know, was red hot winning those
three games, but there was a really bad stretch before that,
and then of course losing the four regular season games
in playoff game to make it five total games at
the end of last year's season. You know, to avoid
(04:51):
that this year, a lot of it does fall on
the shoulders of Number eight and Aaron Rodgers, and that
offense not only scoring more than it has in years past,
but just say any drives and they averaged I think
Mark threw this that out recently. First drives last year.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, I saw Warren Sharp tweeted out it was like
they averaged like the third most lowest yards per opening drive.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Wouldn't it's bad to hear twenty two.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Would have put that third most lowest?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Did I say third few? Is sorry about that? I
know twenty two seems dire. Did you see what Chicago?
Did Mark tell you what Chicago averaged? It was like
eight yards twenty twenty two? Oh no, oh, I'm saying
last season, right, You say.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Two seems dire, but Chicago only averaged eight yards.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
He was average twenty two. I believe I saw Warren sharp.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
He tweeted out every team's average to offenses starting average
on their opening drive. Pittsburgh seems dire at twenty two yards,
but I'm pretty sure it's on. Chicago ranked last with
eight yards on their opening drive on an average.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And you know, it just made no sense because that's
the scripted drive, and that's you should have a bunch
bunch of plays in there that like all week long
you're comfortable. I remember i'd hear other quarterbacks ex quarterbacks
Ben on his podcast, Charlie Batch on different shows, your show,
my show, all shows, like they'd just be like, you know,
these are plays you go in Saturday night in the
hotel room. If you're on the road, or even if
(06:16):
you're home, you go in Saturday night in the hotel.
You sit down with your offensive coordinator and whoever else
is needing to be in that room and all the quarterbacks.
And Ben sits there and he says, I like this play.
I think this play works a lot. That wasn't working
in practice at all. They have no idea what to
do on that play. We got to get rid of
that for now. That one's good. I like that one.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
I think that they do this a lot early in drives.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I've seen that on the field and they craft their
opening drive and I'm not that wasn't not happening when
you know Russ was the quarterback or picket or fields
or your busy. You just weren't executing once they picked
their plays and they just weren't successful with it.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Rogers is a different level.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I mean he is again, say what you will about
him and some of the stuff he says off the field,
but he's cerebral as hell when it comes to on
the field, and he's a smart football.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
The ball where it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, like he's gonna know how to script. I think
a good opening drive, and I think it's gonna be
a very mutually beneficial relationship with him and Arthur Smith.
And I think Arthur Smith is an established offensive corner,
which is a big deal. To have a name someone
that's done it before, someone that is known as an
OC in the league. I think that's a huge thing
for Rogers. I think that you can't to have like
(07:25):
an unknown, like to have like a Canada type of
guy who's trying to make a name for himself. I
think that could get really sticky, really fast. But Arthur
Smith's been a successful OC and he's been a head coach.
And this isn't a slight on Arthur Smith. It's a
praise of Aaron Rodgers. He knows more about offensive football
than Arthur Smith does.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
He just does.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I mean, he's Aaron Rodgers, he's a four time MVP,
He's going into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
He's a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Ben Roethlisberger knows more about offensive football than Arthur Smith does. Like,
it's not an insult to these ocs that you get
to a certain level of quarterback play and the dynamic
shifts a little bit and that quarterback knows a little
bit more than I do Tom Brady smarter than Josh
McDaniels when it comes to running an offense and when
it comes to being a football player and being an
(08:12):
offensive mind. But what McDaniels did so well was he
recognized that shift and he recognized that, Hey, I got
a quarterback that I think knows a little bit more
than me here, but he still was able to find
a way to make impact, to kind of even to
kind of bring himself up on level playing field and
to truly be just a total asset to that guy. Like,
(08:32):
do you think there was an offensive coordinator that was
smarter than Peyton Manning, especially once Peyton Manning started to
get himself revved up and running in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
He calls on plays, he didn't even need an offensive coordinator.
So like, once you get to that point, it takes
a really keen ability to I think, be symbiotic. And
I think you're going to get that from Arthur Smith
and Aaron Rodgers. Like I heard when Jack Sawyer joined
Mark last week, he was saying we asked him, Mark
(08:59):
asked them House like, were you starstruck, for lack of
a better word, of any player, And you'd think he
would have said, like you know, Cam Hayward or some
of your defense or even just Mike Tomlin. First thing
he said was a man seeing Aaron Rodgers was kind
of trippy, like you know, growing up and watching football
with that dad and stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Lee wide. He was the face of the NFL for.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Run of the faces of the NFL, one of the
most recog I mean, maybe not the face of the
league is probably my homes but like one of the
more fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
If you're gonna do, like, you know, an NFL league
wide promotional shot for like Aaron Rodgers is on that, yeah,
with Allen and Lamar for all those guys, like so,
you know, he was saying, how surreal it kind of
was to see Aaron Rodgers as the quarterback Like Arthur Smith.
I don't want to use the word starstruck, because he's
not a rookie out of Ohio State. He's a grown man.
(09:50):
But Arthur Smith was witnessed in his time throughout the
league of the monster of the unbelievable things that Aaron
Rodgers was doing, and I'm sure he grew in a
believable appreciation for him and the type of player he was,
just you know, from being around him and seeing it happen.
And again, it's not a starstruck kind of thing, but
(10:12):
I'm sure that there is like a Wow, that's Aaron Rodgers.
That's the four time MVP. That's one of the best
quarterbacks I've ever seen play the game. And now I
get to coach him, and now I get to share,
you know, ideas with him, and I'm sure there is
a really good level of excitement there. And we saw
Rogers in his press conference kind of throw some cold
(10:32):
water on Mike Persuda. Funny enough, ask me about the
right I'm sure that came up on the DNA Morning
show asking about the you know, takeover when you see
fit mentality, which isn't a like that's not a negative thing.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
No.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I think Rogers took that as him kind of painting
it in a negative light. I want my quarterback to
take over if he sees fit. If I don't have
a quarterback that has the ability to do that, I
don't have a friend, I don't have a quarterback, I
don't have a fan.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I think that was a huge worry about. You know,
the Kenny Pickett eerra too, is that you just didn't
have the confidence right.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
If you're not gonna let them fully cook, what's the
point then?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
And you saw and the one time let the baby
birds fly. One time we say the baby bird. The
one time you saw Justin fueld Is really trying to
improvise was in that Colts gaming You saw what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
He had to happen.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, but he was cooking too, I'm sure, like, well,
it took him like forty five minutes of game time
to get cooking, and.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
He did it.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Kind of feel maybe the shackles loosened a bit, and hey,
just go be quarterback because we need to come back here.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And then when it mattered most though, he's still.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like they didn't make it so sterile because we need
to come back big time. Like we're down by multiple
scores now, justin like it's time to put some points
up on the board. Like that whole sterile protect the football,
let's win a game in Indy twenty one to eighteen
kind of approach. That's out the window now. And you
saw him kind of start balling out. You saw him
zip some balls in there, some really good passes and
(11:55):
use his legs score touchdowns. And then he threw it
all away by snap.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
But ye still he did.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
The point is like.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You need to at some point just let the quarterback
be the complete quarterback and be in complete control of
the offense. And man, I don't really know what happened
with Russ last year and feeling the need to kind
of rain him in or him even being willing to
be rained in like that like we heard at the
end of the season last year. But I just don't
(12:25):
think that that's even gonna be in the cards for
Aaron Rodgers to even suggest doing stuff like that, or
to even say that, you know, we're gonna limit you
at the line of scrimmage or we're gonna make sure
that you run the plays that are called.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
You know, I think Rogers is, like he laid it out.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You know, he thinks he'll follow Arthur Smith's game plan
because he's gonna have a lot of input in the
game plan. In the game that Arthur Smith calls, there's
two or three plays called in the huddle, like he said,
and his job is to just make sure that they
get into the right play. But as far as the
notion that you know, he took umbrage to take over
(13:02):
when I see fit and then he was like, I've
run some two minutes in my career, Like that's what
we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Like, right, are you going to be willing.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
To end of first half, end of game, end of
quarter kind of scenario trying to chase a team? Just
kind of go with your own gut and go with
what you feel as far as the play is concerned.
But I don't think there's gonna be any issue between
the two of them. I think it's going to be
a really great relationship. It's going to be a great
working relationship between both Smith and Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Well, I would hope so, because I think, you know,
looking back on last season, it sounded like a lot of.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
The the core of the the arguments between Arthur Smith
and Russell Wilson came via that that decision by Russ
to to take over the offense, and Arthur Smith wasn't comfortable.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
With him doing that.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I think that I wonder difference is Arthur Smith will
have more comfortability just being like do it right? I
think so too. I think look, I think there was
definitely a I don't want to say a rift or
a disconnect between the staff and the quarterback position. But
I definitely think that Arthur Smith, if I could just guess,
(14:17):
and maybe this is reckless, and I'm sorry if I'm
doing this recklessly on Steelers' Nation Radio, don't yell at me.
But I he wanted Fields, like I think Fields was
this guy last year, not to the point where he
was just like, I'm gonna tank Russ now because I'm petty.
I just think that, you know, he said, I would
think Field is the guy to go with for four
and two. I'm starting to really get through to this guy,
(14:39):
like we're starting to really develop a nice rapport here,
and then Coach t says we're going with Russ, and
Arthur Smith's like, okay, we're going with Russ. I mean,
that's the that's what we're doing. I'm gonna put all
my energy and making rusts in this offense the best
that can be under us.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
And it did really good for the.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
First few weeks out with Russ, some of the best
offenses that we've seen of Pittsburgh Steeler football in a
long long time. And then it just fizzled out and
it faded uh late. So you know, as far as that, like,
you know, he's a Hall of Fame quarterback too? How
could you put the shackles on him? I think your
point is well taken. Like, I don't know if there
was ever that full trust in Russell Wilson from Arthur
(15:13):
Smith because he was starting to build that trust up
with Justin Fields. And I'm not saying that that was
full trust yet, but just like that, there wasn't a
complete like willingness I would say to trust a guy
even though he is a Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Would you think this year it's.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Going to be a completely different thing, because I do
think that he Rogers is on a different level. Talked
about it, Yeah, yeah, I think we just agreed. Okay,
I'm hoping for you to add a little something.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
You know, we're on there.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I guess the only thing I would say add to that,
or try to add to that, is that I hope
there's no like ego. There's no like sleeping giant of
an ego and Arthur Smith there, and I don't think
there is not.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I don't think that that that's the case at.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
All, because guys, the potential for a sleeping giant of
an ego and aer.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Guy whose whole offensive game plan is built around running
the football a lot.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I don't think that's.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Very ego centric type of offense, like I would feel
like an ego offense would be, like, you know, we
do a bunch of these crazy reverses, and we do
like a bunch of cool stuff in the passing game,
and you know, hook and lateral things like the Detroit
Lions did. And having the stubbornness to still do that
stuff without the skill players that the Lions have, I
think would be the sign of an ego. Nothing's more
(16:32):
meat and potatoes and blue collar than just handing the
ball off to twenty two and have an l Tractorsido
rumble down the fields as much as you possibly can.
We started on this path, though, because we're hopeful and
optimistic that this offense that Aaron Rodgers at the helm
of it will keep the defense fresher than it's been
in years, and with that defense being fresh. To bring
us back to what we were talking about, maybe you
get a full sample size of elite football being played,
(16:57):
or for the most part, elite football being played by
the defense in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And as you put it.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, here's kind of that that that kind of coming
together together moment for them, that perfect storm moment for
this defense that has had a trio of stars for.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Six seven years now.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
But again, I think the supporting cast is better than
it's been, is as good as it could possibly be, too,
Like it's it's hard to imagine having guys beyond TJ,
Minka and Cam being as good as the guys on
the team are currently. Like, I have high expectations for
Derek Carmer, he first round draft pick. I have as
(17:44):
we should because he's proven he can do this. I
have high expectations for Alex Heismith. I have high expectations
for guys like Nick herbig Jack Sawyer, even though he's
the four string outside linebacker, like he could still make
an impact on this team despite being fourth on that
depth chart. Look at the guys on the inside. Patrick
Queen is an former All Pro caliber player. We saw
(18:06):
him have his moments. Obviously, you like to see it
come together a little more. But again, with the guys around,
with everyone, like you said, coming together, everything kind of
clicking at once.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I have to imagine Patrick Queen.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
You remember his best season in Baltimore's when he had
his best running mate in Rokwan Smith. I have to
imagine this being the best defense or collective roster on
the Pittsburgh defense in recent years. I have to imagine
Patrick Queen will take advantage of that, and to look
at the guys behind him, Peyton Wilson coming into his
(18:37):
second year, Cole Holcomb returning, and then we spent all
the first episode talking about the secondary, and you don't
really see a glaring weakness at the starting four in
the secondary, and we always talk about the death pieces
behind those guys.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I just don't see like it would be miraculous.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I think in a terrible way if you saw this
defense before like they did last year with the lack
of sacks, the lack of turnovers and then getting run
over by Dereck Henry in that playoff game.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Here's some areas where if we're gonna be extremely optimistic,
this is what we're gonna do. Here is we're gonna
be extremely optimistic. This is best case scenario type of
things for that defense to becoming elite. When you start
up front. Cam Hayward was an All Pro again last year.
He's getting up there in age. Though best case scenario
would be Benton and or Harmon kind of at a
(19:33):
point and later in the season having us going like, damn,
they're kind of on the level of Camera maybe doing
more than Cam this year and kind of reckon games
more than Cam, and Cam kind of just can be
in that role that is more limited than he's been before.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It still has a lot of impact.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It doesn't have to do as much. But you're not
too young, guys.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
If Cam Hayward leaves the field, Derek Henry gets an
automatic thirty yards like the run defense when Cam Hayward
was on the field and when Cam Hayward was off
the field was dramatically different. Now, if Camp Hayward can
get a blow and Harmon and Benton can keep the
run game crowd into two three yards of carry like
when Hayward's on the field, that's a huge step in
the direction of being that truly elite defense and not
(20:14):
being gashed by the run. Elite defenses, I mean, they
just don't get gashed by the run really at all.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Like that.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
That's kind of like the yeah, the first thing you
do when you set out to be elite. It's just
like we cut the head off the snake of the
running game. Teams aren't running on.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Us you always hear coaches say you win this game
in the trenches, and that's where that that's where that
game is played.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
And you just the team gets dejected, like they can't
run the ball at all, Like it's nothing, like the
lineman can't get out and run block like. So that's
like really at the top of the list as far
as if you're an elite defense, here's what you do.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
See.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I just haven't been able to cut the head off
of that snake consistently enough in these past recent years.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And a lot of that is the lack of depth.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
On that defensive line once Cam Hayward leaves the field,
and that can't be the case this year. And if
it's not the case, and they'll be one of the
best run stopping defenses the NFL Hayward on the field
or not. Another thing that needs to happen, doesn't need
to happen, but best case scenario type of thing. You
mentioned Patrick Queen and how he was great when he
had roke One Smith come in and he could kind
(21:13):
of be that secondary guy didn't have to have the
green dot really thrived and Baltimore became a second team
All Pro before becoming a Pittsburgh Steeler.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I'm guessing the best case scenario is Cole Holcom no. No.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
The other one, Peyton Peyton Wilson, the second year man
out NC State, is healthy enough, put on a little
bit more Poayte still has that speed, has a little
bit more of the NFL life, the NFL linebacking mental
under his belt.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Understanding the sea legs under him more.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Maybe that guy becomes the every down stud green Dot
I'm the man an inside linebacker, and then all of
a sudden, our big free agent guy can just slide
into that secondary role and that's the best secondary linebacker
potentially in the NFL all of a sudden. So again,
I'm not holding my breath that Peyton Wilson is going
to make this giant jump in his second season, but
(22:02):
if he does, that would be really, really a best
case scenario for the Pittsburgh Steelers. They'd have Patrick Queen
kind of fall into that role that he thrived so
much in in Baltimore, and then you'd have a guy
that you drafted in the middle round, a homegrown guy
who's still going to be cheap for a couple of years,
emerge as your number one linebacker and at that point,
if what happens plays out, he might be one of
(22:24):
the top half linebackers in the NFL as far as
top fifteen inside linebackers go. So I'm looking at Peyton
Wilson and I'm saying, if he can really explode, and
if he can really kind of take maybe that title
away from Patrick Queen through no fault of Patrick Queen
and just threw excellence from him, best case scenario for
the Pittsburgh Chewers, and I think goes a long long
(22:44):
way and becoming elite. And then the guy that you
mentioned as your first guest, holk m if he's your
third guy, and you've got Malie Harrison as well, who
you just signed from Baltimore. Now, all of a sudden,
you've got two guys in Queen and Wilson who don't
really have to leave the field and are great, but
can leave the field because your second line, if you will,
(23:04):
with Hulcomb and Harrison are solid too for a couple.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Of plays if they need to. I think injury happens,
Houlkom's fine.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I'd love to see Holcombe come back, just because his
short time with the team when he was healthy was
so impressive.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I think Holcomb is going to have a really strong
season this year. I think we can see him make
more impact. Earlier is on special teams, Like I think
he's going to be all over the place on coverages,
and then I think you're going to see him make
plays in the NFL level.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
But I think Wilson and Queen are just going to
be better players than him.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
That year when he was on the team, between him
and was a Kawant, Alexander and Alanna Robinson. Yeah, right,
the three of them, there was really no standout wide
wide receiver linebacker won. But as the season unfolded, Cole
Holcomb rose to the occasion. And then you lose him,
and then the next week you lose Kwant Alexander, and
(23:58):
all of a sudden, all your left was You're left
with is Atlanta Roberts.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
But for that, and then you got Miles Jack.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And then you got Pokemon cards Blake Martinez to come in.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But you also but not just Miles Jack. You got
Miles Jack post retirement. Yes, coming off the couch, Miles.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
She was a crazy year for inside line back.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Before the injuries happened, Cole Holcum rose to the occasion
and I think what's helping him now this year is
that it's not oh, we're in this position again, who's
gonna be the green doc guy, who's going to be
the linebacker one.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You don't have that issue anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
There was no desperation for Coholcomb to come back. There
was no like need our eye badly and now he's
back and Cole, we need you.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Up to start kind of was last year.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But then you signed Patrick Queen and all of a
sudden it was you signed Patrick Queen and you drafted
Peyton Wilson in the same year, and you kept you
kept Alanda Roberts, right.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So I don't think there was any kind of you
kind of forgot about Colholkom. You were like, oh yeah,
they kept them, like he's still on IR, like they
didn't get released him.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
That that was some of the moments that you had
last year. But I think he can have a big
impact this year. For sure.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I that inside linebacking room is one of the best
it's really looked, or has the intention to be the
best it's really looked in quite a while. One thing
I will say about Patrick Queen though, and this is
maybe where Millie Carrison comes in this where Landon Roberts
found himself on the field of a lot is Patrick Queen's
got to get better at run support. He's willing and
run support.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, it kind of hurts to have lost e rob
in that regard because.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Think Harrison is gonna be Yeah, he can come in
and kind of be that guy.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, and again like maybe you were kind of running
out of room in that position anyways, Like you knew
you had to keep Queen, you knew you had to
keep Peyton.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, I think a guy like Mark Robinson should be worried,
be very very worried about what's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I mean, as a seventh round draft pick, like you
kind of count your days every day in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Funny though, we had optimism for him, Yeah, people don't
think like again, like when you put them, maybe we
had optimism because at the time the linebacking, you.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Know, wasn't great.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Desperate remember that was that was in the era of
Miles Jack and guys like I'm forgetting who's also played.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, but I'm forgetting the guy who also is.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
In Vegas right now, Splaine, like Bob Spulane was like
the best linebacker you had, so Mark Robinson stood out.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, those are the guys that were he was playing.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
It's now he's playing with Patrick Queen and Cole holkm
and and Peyton Wilson.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
He's gonna fall off.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
There's a desperation there where you were like, we need
somebody badly. Maybe the seventh round guy could be a
diamond in the rough. Maybe he's Vince Williams.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right, And here's the thing is that Williams again, that's
probably people.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Here's the difference between you know, talking about the desperation
at that position, we were saying the same thing between
Mark Robinson and Cole Holcom. You liked what you saw
and splashed it on Mark Robinson, but you knew he
was a liability in pass coverage, right, You never considered
it col hulkm a liability. No, you were desperate at
that position. But then Cole Holcomb stepped up and took
it one step further and really stood out as a
(26:49):
true linebacker one.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But then got hurt.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know, it is treated as like excuse making when
you bring this up, but it's it's really not. It's
just factual, Like this defense lost steph On Tutor, Yeah,
lost Chazer early, and Vince Williams retired early too. Like
Williams and Chazier looked like they were going to be
a great tandem for all and they were friends.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Too like that.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And I think, honestly, losing Shazier kind of was a
huge blow mentally.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
He was still great, thoughout not great for him.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
He saw perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Like it sucks like those are three core players in defense.
I mean, of course that could still be here today,
of course to it and Chazier stand out above.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
But Williams fit perfect right alongside. Yeah. So if step
On Twitt never had the tragedy.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Of losing his brother and and the injuries, and and
Chazier never had the tragedy of having that season ending.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Injury, maybe never walking again. Yeah right, it's I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It is a miracle that the guy is able to walk,
let alone tried to play football again after that. But
those guys would have been entering like their tenth year
in the league right now.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It also hurts. It came from the same draft class.
I know, Jay Zer into it.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And maybe Vince Williams because he was the lesser kind
of players have faded by now.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
But we would have had him for a few more
years recently, you're.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Not talking about, oh my gosh, you had to struggle
through Robert Spoline and Mark Robinson because Vince still would
have been there.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
All right, we'll get to the secondary when we pick
up next episode. Talk about best case scenario there. And
then I got some things from NFL dot com.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
One.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It's really interesting. Someone ranked five NFL players who are
worthy of a statue right now, not currently playing like
any like any player like outside the statue, like an MVP,
SASU no statue, like being immortalized, immortalitized and ann many
an Atha the elite Amazon sing. All right, I got
(28:46):
all the reference. Yeah, so we'll pick up there when
we get back. Jacob Breck, Tom Offerman Steelers Standard on
Steelers Nation Radio and Steelers Audio Network
Deshaun Elliott contract extension Day here on the Steelers Standard,
Steelers Nation Radio and the Steelers Audio Network. Jacob said
something at the end of last segment about this could
be the year where this Steelers defense really comes together
and puts on its masterpiece because it has been really
one of the most star power defenses in the NFL
(00:31):
for a while now, right like their big three kind
of was above a lot of the other teams being
two's big threes that they had as well. They obviously
deserved it because they racked up all first team All pros,
Defensive Player of the Year for TJ. Watt, led the
league in sacks, led the league in interceptions if you're Minka,
led the league in old man's strength if you're Cam Hayward.
(00:54):
So they deserved it on their own equition, Like based
on the numbers they put up, even if they were
wearing Carolina Panthers jerseys, that would have been thought of
as one of the best trios in the league. But
you get elevated a little bit more with the mystique
of being on the Steelers too.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Of course history a great defensive team, so.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You again deserve to be thought of as the best
trio and football no matter who you play for. But
you kind of get cemented in that, or you had
been cemented in that for a while because you're You're Steelers, dude.
Even when the Steelers were in the Killer b era
and their defense was not good, people would you turn
on Sports Center and people would be like, well, you
know they're gonna play good defense, Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
You still have and you still had some guy like
Shazier was there, Cam Hayward was there, Like.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That was kind of when it was starting to Kyward
was there for sure, But with Shazier and then Watt
getting splashed in as a baby, that's when it started
to get moving in the right direction. But I'm talking
about like even before was there for the feet under them?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
My good, No, you're you're You're got a great point.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Like even though that, I mean looking back at the
names on that defense like Ross Cockroll was, Mike Mitchell,
Sean Davis.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
The secondary was was abysmal, and I mean I want
to like even then the the Steak though, carried them
into thinking that they're good a defense, like they're just
like whoa the defense today? We were in those reguys,
people didn't know existed who were on ESPN back then,
but would just confidently with their chests out be like, well,
(02:20):
you got to Pittsburgh in January, you're gonna have to
They're gonna play, know what, They're gonna score forty points
because that's what the Steelers do now in this era
is they just score more than everybody else.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But now the defense is really good. It just hasn't
ever really.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Put that undisputedly elite season together.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I think that's very fair to say. It's not taking shots.
It's not me saying that it's a bad defense or
it's been a bad defense. I think it's been a
very good defense to great defense at times. I think
it's shown moments and stretches where it was elite. It's
had elite games, for sure. It's had games where it's
just outright gone out there and won them football games.
I can think of a handful, just like season of
the first game of the year against the Falcons was
(03:02):
completely won by the defense.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I mean there were two games when the team scored
six field goals in a single game.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I mean, I know there was a big special teams
play in this one, but when they went up to
Buffalo a few years ago. Defense won that football game
on the opener angles Mit Trubisky was the quarterback.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Defense and special team. They picked Joe Brow four times?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Was it in that?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
In that four times?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And make it picked him off for a pick six
in the very first play from scrimmage of Joe Burrows season. Like,
it's weird that I just brought up examples that were
all first games of the year, But I also think
it's not a coincidence because I think this defense shows
its true elite nature early in the year as opposed
to later in the year, and I think there's a
lot of variables that go into that. I think naturally,
defenses can maybe kind of fade a little bit because
(03:47):
I think defenses start out ahead of the curve when
it comes to the football. Like offenses, it's all about timing,
you know what I mean, And offenses it takes a
little bit for offenses to heat up. So I think
that kind of catches up to defenses. So you could
see most defenses play better early in the season. Players
get banged up, maybe you're not as healthy as you
once were later in the year.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I think that obviously factors into it. And then for the.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Steelers specifically, there's definitely a case to be made for
the offenses just not on the field enough, and then
the defense is just so tired to come week fifteen,
week sixteen, week seventeen that it's just like it's almost
like we've played twenty games or twenty one games to
this point compared to some of the other defenses around
the NFL.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So you've seen the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Defense really burn bright early in the season and have
a bit of a fade late. Now, to be fair,
the teams of recent years have kind of had fade
moments late. Rudolph I know, was red hot winning those
three games, but there was a really bad stretch before that,
and then of course losing the four regular season games
in playoff game to make it five total games at
the end of last year's season. You know, to avoid
(04:51):
that this year, a lot of it does fall on
the shoulders of Number eight and Aaron Rodgers, and that
offense not only scoring more than it has in years past,
but just say any drives and they averaged I think
Mark threw this that out recently. First drives last year.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, I saw Warren Sharp tweeted out it was like
they averaged like the third most lowest yards per opening drive.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Wouldn't it's bad to hear twenty two.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Would have put that third most lowest?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Did I say third few? Is sorry about that? I
know twenty two seems dire. Did you see what Chicago?
Did Mark tell you what Chicago averaged? It was like
eight yards twenty twenty two? Oh no, oh, I'm saying
last season, right, You say.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Two seems dire, but Chicago only averaged eight yards.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
He was average twenty two. I believe I saw Warren sharp.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
He tweeted out every team's average to offenses starting average
on their opening drive. Pittsburgh seems dire at twenty two yards,
but I'm pretty sure it's on. Chicago ranked last with
eight yards on their opening drive on an average.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And you know, it just made no sense because that's
the scripted drive, and that's you should have a bunch
bunch of plays in there that like all week long
you're comfortable. I remember i'd hear other quarterbacks ex quarterbacks
Ben on his podcast, Charlie Batch on different shows, your show,
my show, all shows, like they'd just be like, you know,
these are plays you go in Saturday night in the
hotel room. If you're on the road, or even if
(06:16):
you're home, you go in Saturday night in the hotel.
You sit down with your offensive coordinator and whoever else
is needing to be in that room and all the quarterbacks.
And Ben sits there and he says, I like this play.
I think this play works a lot. That wasn't working
in practice at all. They have no idea what to
do on that play. We got to get rid of
that for now. That one's good. I like that one.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
I think that they do this a lot early in drives.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I've seen that on the field and they craft their
opening drive and I'm not that wasn't not happening when
you know Russ was the quarterback or picket or fields
or your busy. You just weren't executing once they picked
their plays and they just weren't successful with it.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Rogers is a different level.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I mean he is again, say what you will about
him and some of the stuff he says off the field,
but he's cerebral as hell when it comes to on
the field, and he's a smart football.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
The ball where it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, like he's gonna know how to script. I think
a good opening drive, and I think it's gonna be
a very mutually beneficial relationship with him and Arthur Smith.
And I think Arthur Smith is an established offensive corner,
which is a big deal. To have a name someone
that's done it before, someone that is known as an
OC in the league. I think that's a huge thing
for Rogers. I think that you can't to have like
(07:25):
an unknown, like to have like a Canada type of
guy who's trying to make a name for himself. I
think that could get really sticky, really fast. But Arthur
Smith's been a successful OC and he's been a head coach.
And this isn't a slight on Arthur Smith. It's a
praise of Aaron Rodgers. He knows more about offensive football
than Arthur Smith does.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
He just does.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I mean, he's Aaron Rodgers, he's a four time MVP,
He's going into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
He's a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Ben Roethlisberger knows more about offensive football than Arthur Smith does. Like,
it's not an insult to these ocs that you get
to a certain level of quarterback play and the dynamic
shifts a little bit and that quarterback knows a little
bit more than I do Tom Brady smarter than Josh
McDaniels when it comes to running an offense and when
it comes to being a football player and being an
(08:12):
offensive mind. But what McDaniels did so well was he
recognized that shift and he recognized that, Hey, I got
a quarterback that I think knows a little bit more
than me here, but he still was able to find
a way to make impact, to kind of even to
kind of bring himself up on level playing field and
to truly be just a total asset to that guy. Like,
(08:32):
do you think there was an offensive coordinator that was
smarter than Peyton Manning, especially once Peyton Manning started to
get himself revved up and running in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
He calls on plays, he didn't even need an offensive coordinator.
So like, once you get to that point, it takes
a really keen ability to I think, be symbiotic. And
I think you're going to get that from Arthur Smith
and Aaron Rodgers. Like I heard when Jack Sawyer joined
Mark last week, he was saying we asked him, Mark
(08:59):
asked them House like, were you starstruck, for lack of
a better word, of any player, And you'd think he
would have said, like you know, Cam Hayward or some
of your defense or even just Mike Tomlin. First thing
he said was a man seeing Aaron Rodgers was kind
of trippy, like you know, growing up and watching football
with that dad and stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Lee wide. He was the face of the NFL for.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Run of the faces of the NFL, one of the
most recog I mean, maybe not the face of the
league is probably my homes but like one of the
more fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
If you're gonna do, like, you know, an NFL league
wide promotional shot for like Aaron Rodgers is on that, yeah,
with Allen and Lamar for all those guys, like so,
you know, he was saying, how surreal it kind of
was to see Aaron Rodgers as the quarterback Like Arthur Smith.
I don't want to use the word starstruck, because he's
not a rookie out of Ohio State. He's a grown man.
(09:50):
But Arthur Smith was witnessed in his time throughout the
league of the monster of the unbelievable things that Aaron
Rodgers was doing, and I'm sure he grew in a
believable appreciation for him and the type of player he was,
just you know, from being around him and seeing it happen.
And again, it's not a starstruck kind of thing, but
(10:12):
I'm sure that there is like a Wow, that's Aaron Rodgers.
That's the four time MVP. That's one of the best
quarterbacks I've ever seen play the game. And now I
get to coach him, and now I get to share,
you know, ideas with him, and I'm sure there is
a really good level of excitement there. And we saw
Rogers in his press conference kind of throw some cold
(10:32):
water on Mike Persuda. Funny enough, ask me about the
right I'm sure that came up on the DNA Morning
show asking about the you know, takeover when you see
fit mentality, which isn't a like that's not a negative thing.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
No.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I think Rogers took that as him kind of painting
it in a negative light. I want my quarterback to
take over if he sees fit. If I don't have
a quarterback that has the ability to do that, I
don't have a friend, I don't have a quarterback, I
don't have a fan.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I think that was a huge worry about. You know,
the Kenny Pickett eerra too, is that you just didn't
have the confidence right.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
If you're not gonna let them fully cook, what's the
point then?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
And you saw and the one time let the baby
birds fly. One time we say the baby bird. The
one time you saw Justin fueld Is really trying to
improvise was in that Colts gaming You saw what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
He had to happen.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, but he was cooking too, I'm sure, like, well,
it took him like forty five minutes of game time
to get cooking, and.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
He did it.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Kind of feel maybe the shackles loosened a bit, and hey,
just go be quarterback because we need to come back here.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And then when it mattered most though, he's still.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like they didn't make it so sterile because we need
to come back big time. Like we're down by multiple
scores now, justin like it's time to put some points
up on the board. Like that whole sterile protect the football,
let's win a game in Indy twenty one to eighteen
kind of approach. That's out the window now. And you
saw him kind of start balling out. You saw him
zip some balls in there, some really good passes and
(11:55):
use his legs score touchdowns. And then he threw it
all away by snap.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
But ye still he did.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
The point is like.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You need to at some point just let the quarterback
be the complete quarterback and be in complete control of
the offense. And man, I don't really know what happened
with Russ last year and feeling the need to kind
of rain him in or him even being willing to
be rained in like that like we heard at the
end of the season last year. But I just don't
(12:25):
think that that's even gonna be in the cards for
Aaron Rodgers to even suggest doing stuff like that, or
to even say that, you know, we're gonna limit you
at the line of scrimmage or we're gonna make sure
that you run the plays that are called.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
You know, I think Rogers is, like he laid it out.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You know, he thinks he'll follow Arthur Smith's game plan
because he's gonna have a lot of input in the
game plan. In the game that Arthur Smith calls, there's
two or three plays called in the huddle, like he said,
and his job is to just make sure that they
get into the right play. But as far as the
notion that you know, he took umbrage to take over
(13:02):
when I see fit and then he was like, I've
run some two minutes in my career, Like that's what
we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Like, right, are you going to be willing.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
To end of first half, end of game, end of
quarter kind of scenario trying to chase a team? Just
kind of go with your own gut and go with
what you feel as far as the play is concerned.
But I don't think there's gonna be any issue between
the two of them. I think it's going to be
a really great relationship. It's going to be a great
working relationship between both Smith and Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Well, I would hope so, because I think, you know,
looking back on last season, it sounded like a lot of.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
The the core of the the arguments between Arthur Smith
and Russell Wilson came via that that decision by Russ
to to take over the offense, and Arthur Smith wasn't comfortable.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
With him doing that.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I think that I wonder difference is Arthur Smith will
have more comfortability just being like do it right? I
think so too. I think look, I think there was
definitely a I don't want to say a rift or
a disconnect between the staff and the quarterback position. But
I definitely think that Arthur Smith, if I could just guess,
(14:17):
and maybe this is reckless, and I'm sorry if I'm
doing this recklessly on Steelers' Nation Radio, don't yell at me.
But I he wanted Fields, like I think Fields was
this guy last year, not to the point where he
was just like, I'm gonna tank Russ now because I'm petty.
I just think that, you know, he said, I would
think Field is the guy to go with for four
and two. I'm starting to really get through to this guy,
(14:39):
like we're starting to really develop a nice rapport here,
and then Coach t says we're going with Russ, and
Arthur Smith's like, okay, we're going with Russ. I mean,
that's the that's what we're doing. I'm gonna put all
my energy and making rusts in this offense the best
that can be under us.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
And it did really good for the.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
First few weeks out with Russ, some of the best
offenses that we've seen of Pittsburgh Steeler football in a
long long time. And then it just fizzled out and
it faded uh late. So you know, as far as that, like,
you know, he's a Hall of Fame quarterback too? How
could you put the shackles on him? I think your
point is well taken. Like, I don't know if there
was ever that full trust in Russell Wilson from Arthur
(15:13):
Smith because he was starting to build that trust up
with Justin Fields. And I'm not saying that that was
full trust yet, but just like that, there wasn't a
complete like willingness I would say to trust a guy
even though he is a Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Would you think this year it's.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Going to be a completely different thing, because I do
think that he Rogers is on a different level. Talked
about it, Yeah, yeah, I think we just agreed. Okay,
I'm hoping for you to add a little something.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
You know, we're on there.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I guess the only thing I would say add to that,
or try to add to that, is that I hope
there's no like ego. There's no like sleeping giant of
an ego and Arthur Smith there, and I don't think
there is not.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I don't think that that that's the case at.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
All, because guys, the potential for a sleeping giant of
an ego and aer.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Guy whose whole offensive game plan is built around running
the football a lot.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I don't think that's.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Very ego centric type of offense, like I would feel
like an ego offense would be, like, you know, we
do a bunch of these crazy reverses, and we do
like a bunch of cool stuff in the passing game,
and you know, hook and lateral things like the Detroit
Lions did. And having the stubbornness to still do that
stuff without the skill players that the Lions have, I
think would be the sign of an ego. Nothing's more
(16:32):
meat and potatoes and blue collar than just handing the
ball off to twenty two and have an l Tractorsido
rumble down the fields as much as you possibly can.
We started on this path, though, because we're hopeful and
optimistic that this offense that Aaron Rodgers at the helm
of it will keep the defense fresher than it's been
in years, and with that defense being fresh. To bring
us back to what we were talking about, maybe you
get a full sample size of elite football being played,
(16:57):
or for the most part, elite football being played by
the defense in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And as you put it.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, here's kind of that that that kind of coming
together together moment for them, that perfect storm moment for
this defense that has had a trio of stars for.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Six seven years now.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
But again, I think the supporting cast is better than
it's been, is as good as it could possibly be, too,
Like it's it's hard to imagine having guys beyond TJ,
Minka and Cam being as good as the guys on
the team are currently. Like, I have high expectations for
Derek Carmer, he first round draft pick. I have as
(17:44):
we should because he's proven he can do this. I
have high expectations for Alex Heismith. I have high expectations
for guys like Nick herbig Jack Sawyer, even though he's
the four string outside linebacker, like he could still make
an impact on this team despite being fourth on that
depth chart. Look at the guys on the inside. Patrick
Queen is an former All Pro caliber player. We saw
(18:06):
him have his moments. Obviously, you like to see it
come together a little more. But again, with the guys around,
with everyone, like you said, coming together, everything kind of
clicking at once.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I have to imagine Patrick Queen.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
You remember his best season in Baltimore's when he had
his best running mate in Rokwan Smith. I have to
imagine this being the best defense or collective roster on
the Pittsburgh defense in recent years. I have to imagine
Patrick Queen will take advantage of that, and to look
at the guys behind him, Peyton Wilson coming into his
(18:37):
second year, Cole Holcomb returning, and then we spent all
the first episode talking about the secondary, and you don't
really see a glaring weakness at the starting four in
the secondary, and we always talk about the death pieces
behind those guys.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I just don't see like it would be miraculous.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I think in a terrible way if you saw this
defense before like they did last year with the lack
of sacks, the lack of turnovers and then getting run
over by Dereck Henry in that playoff game.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Here's some areas where if we're gonna be extremely optimistic,
this is what we're gonna do. Here is we're gonna
be extremely optimistic. This is best case scenario type of
things for that defense to becoming elite. When you start
up front. Cam Hayward was an All Pro again last year.
He's getting up there in age. Though best case scenario
would be Benton and or Harmon kind of at a
(19:33):
point and later in the season having us going like, damn,
they're kind of on the level of Camera maybe doing
more than Cam this year and kind of reckon games
more than Cam, and Cam kind of just can be
in that role that is more limited than he's been before.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It still has a lot of impact.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It doesn't have to do as much. But you're not
too young, guys.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
If Cam Hayward leaves the field, Derek Henry gets an
automatic thirty yards like the run defense when Cam Hayward
was on the field and when Cam Hayward was off
the field was dramatically different. Now, if Camp Hayward can
get a blow and Harmon and Benton can keep the
run game crowd into two three yards of carry like
when Hayward's on the field, that's a huge step in
the direction of being that truly elite defense and not
(20:14):
being gashed by the run. Elite defenses, I mean, they
just don't get gashed by the run really at all.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Like that.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
That's kind of like the yeah, the first thing you
do when you set out to be elite. It's just
like we cut the head off the snake of the
running game. Teams aren't running on.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Us you always hear coaches say you win this game
in the trenches, and that's where that that's where that
game is played.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
And you just the team gets dejected, like they can't
run the ball at all, Like it's nothing, like the
lineman can't get out and run block like. So that's
like really at the top of the list as far
as if you're an elite defense, here's what you do.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
See.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I just haven't been able to cut the head off
of that snake consistently enough in these past recent years.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And a lot of that is the lack of depth.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
On that defensive line once Cam Hayward leaves the field,
and that can't be the case this year. And if
it's not the case, and they'll be one of the
best run stopping defenses the NFL Hayward on the field
or not. Another thing that needs to happen, doesn't need
to happen, but best case scenario type of thing. You
mentioned Patrick Queen and how he was great when he
had roke One Smith come in and he could kind
(21:13):
of be that secondary guy didn't have to have the
green dot really thrived and Baltimore became a second team
All Pro before becoming a Pittsburgh Steeler.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I'm guessing the best case scenario is Cole Holcom no. No.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
The other one, Peyton Peyton Wilson, the second year man
out NC State, is healthy enough, put on a little
bit more Poayte still has that speed, has a little
bit more of the NFL life, the NFL linebacking mental
under his belt.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Understanding the sea legs under him more.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Maybe that guy becomes the every down stud green Dot
I'm the man an inside linebacker, and then all of
a sudden, our big free agent guy can just slide
into that secondary role and that's the best secondary linebacker
potentially in the NFL all of a sudden. So again,
I'm not holding my breath that Peyton Wilson is going
to make this giant jump in his second season, but
(22:02):
if he does, that would be really, really a best
case scenario for the Pittsburgh Steelers. They'd have Patrick Queen
kind of fall into that role that he thrived so
much in in Baltimore, and then you'd have a guy
that you drafted in the middle round, a homegrown guy
who's still going to be cheap for a couple of years,
emerge as your number one linebacker and at that point,
if what happens plays out, he might be one of
(22:24):
the top half linebackers in the NFL as far as
top fifteen inside linebackers go. So I'm looking at Peyton
Wilson and I'm saying, if he can really explode, and
if he can really kind of take maybe that title
away from Patrick Queen through no fault of Patrick Queen
and just threw excellence from him, best case scenario for
the Pittsburgh Chewers, and I think goes a long long
(22:44):
way and becoming elite. And then the guy that you
mentioned as your first guest, holk m if he's your
third guy, and you've got Malie Harrison as well, who
you just signed from Baltimore. Now, all of a sudden,
you've got two guys in Queen and Wilson who don't
really have to leave the field and are great, but
can leave the field because your second line, if you will,
(23:04):
with Hulcomb and Harrison are solid too for a couple.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Of plays if they need to. I think injury happens,
Houlkom's fine.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I'd love to see Holcombe come back, just because his
short time with the team when he was healthy was
so impressive.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I think Holcomb is going to have a really strong
season this year. I think we can see him make
more impact. Earlier is on special teams, Like I think
he's going to be all over the place on coverages,
and then I think you're going to see him make
plays in the NFL level.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
But I think Wilson and Queen are just going to
be better players than him.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
That year when he was on the team, between him
and was a Kawant, Alexander and Alanna Robinson. Yeah, right,
the three of them, there was really no standout wide
wide receiver linebacker won. But as the season unfolded, Cole
Holcomb rose to the occasion. And then you lose him,
and then the next week you lose Kwant Alexander, and
(23:58):
all of a sudden, all your left was You're left
with is Atlanta Roberts.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
But for that, and then you got Miles Jack.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And then you got Pokemon cards Blake Martinez to come in.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But you also but not just Miles Jack. You got
Miles Jack post retirement. Yes, coming off the couch, Miles.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
She was a crazy year for inside line back.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Before the injuries happened, Cole Holcum rose to the occasion
and I think what's helping him now this year is
that it's not oh, we're in this position again, who's
gonna be the green doc guy, who's going to be
the linebacker one.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You don't have that issue anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
There was no desperation for Coholcomb to come back. There
was no like need our eye badly and now he's
back and Cole, we need you.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Up to start kind of was last year.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
But then you signed Patrick Queen and all of a
sudden it was you signed Patrick Queen and you drafted
Peyton Wilson in the same year, and you kept you
kept Alanda Roberts, right.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So I don't think there was any kind of you
kind of forgot about Colholkom. You were like, oh yeah,
they kept them, like he's still on IR, like they
didn't get released him.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
That that was some of the moments that you had
last year. But I think he can have a big
impact this year. For sure.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I that inside linebacking room is one of the best
it's really looked, or has the intention to be the
best it's really looked in quite a while. One thing
I will say about Patrick Queen though, and this is
maybe where Millie Carrison comes in this where Landon Roberts
found himself on the field of a lot is Patrick Queen's
got to get better at run support. He's willing and
run support.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, it kind of hurts to have lost e rob
in that regard because.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Think Harrison is gonna be Yeah, he can come in
and kind of be that guy.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, and again like maybe you were kind of running
out of room in that position anyways, Like you knew
you had to keep Queen, you knew you had to
keep Peyton.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, I think a guy like Mark Robinson should be worried,
be very very worried about what's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I mean, as a seventh round draft pick, like you
kind of count your days every day in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Funny though, we had optimism for him, Yeah, people don't
think like again, like when you put them, maybe we
had optimism because at the time the linebacking, you.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Know, wasn't great.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Desperate remember that was that was in the era of
Miles Jack and guys like I'm forgetting who's also played.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, but I'm forgetting the guy who also is.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
In Vegas right now, Splaine, like Bob Spulane was like
the best linebacker you had, so Mark Robinson stood out.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, those are the guys that were he was playing.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
It's now he's playing with Patrick Queen and Cole holkm
and and Peyton Wilson.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
He's gonna fall off.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
There's a desperation there where you were like, we need
somebody badly. Maybe the seventh round guy could be a
diamond in the rough. Maybe he's Vince Williams.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right, And here's the thing is that Williams again, that's
probably people.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Here's the difference between you know, talking about the desperation
at that position, we were saying the same thing between
Mark Robinson and Cole Holcom. You liked what you saw
and splashed it on Mark Robinson, but you knew he
was a liability in pass coverage, right, You never considered
it col hulkm a liability. No, you were desperate at
that position. But then Cole Holcomb stepped up and took
it one step further and really stood out as a
(26:49):
true linebacker one.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But then got hurt.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know, it is treated as like excuse making when
you bring this up, but it's it's really not. It's
just factual, Like this defense lost steph On Tutor, Yeah,
lost Chazer early, and Vince Williams retired early too. Like
Williams and Chazier looked like they were going to be
a great tandem for all and they were friends.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Too like that.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And I think, honestly, losing Shazier kind of was a
huge blow mentally.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
He was still great, thoughout not great for him.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
He saw perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Like it sucks like those are three core players in defense.
I mean, of course that could still be here today,
of course to it and Chazier stand out above.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
But Williams fit perfect right alongside. Yeah. So if step
On Twitt never had the tragedy.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Of losing his brother and and the injuries, and and
Chazier never had the tragedy of having that season ending.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Injury, maybe never walking again. Yeah right, it's I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It is a miracle that the guy is able to walk,
let alone tried to play football again after that. But
those guys would have been entering like their tenth year
in the league right now.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It also hurts. It came from the same draft class.
I know, Jay Zer into it.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And maybe Vince Williams because he was the lesser kind
of players have faded by now.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
But we would have had him for a few more
years recently, you're.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Not talking about, oh my gosh, you had to struggle
through Robert Spoline and Mark Robinson because Vince still would
have been there.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
All right, we'll get to the secondary when we pick
up next episode. Talk about best case scenario there. And
then I got some things from NFL dot com.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
One.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It's really interesting. Someone ranked five NFL players who are
worthy of a statue right now, not currently playing like
any like any player like outside the statue, like an MVP,
SASU no statue, like being immortalized, immortalitized and ann many
an Atha the elite Amazon sing. All right, I got
(28:46):
all the reference. Yeah, so we'll pick up there when
we get back. Jacob Breck, Tom Offerman Steelers Standard on
Steelers Nation Radio and Steelers Audio Network
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