July 1, 2025 • 29 mins
Minkah Fitzpatrick has been the Steelers top safety ever since he joined the team in 2019. Jalen Ramsey has been an All-Pro caliber starting cornerback so we could see a lot of three-corner packages with Joey Porter Jr and Darius Slay
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
But he talked a little bit, well a lot of
bit about Johnny Smith coming in on the offensive side
of the ball. Think that that's gonna maybe end up
being the big part of this trade for the Steelers.
But Jalen Ramsey is the name. I mean, that guy
is going into the Hall of Fame. That guy is
a three time first team All Pro. And you know,
hear a lot of people talk about how the Steelers
(00:39):
are old, right and how they're getting older, and they
got older with this trade, and that's true minus twenty eight.
Jalen Ramsey's thirty. But you kind of like hear the
talk and it's like, is Jalen Ramsey thirty five? Like
as old? You and I have had that discussion before.
Is he as old as Darius Lay? And then you
look and you're like, no, he's so you're thirty still?
(00:59):
And yet it maybe thirty is going to be where
it starts to fall off for him. But he wasn't
awful in Miami last year. He played all seventeen games,
He had two interceptions, and people just didn't really throw
to him because he was the only I mean, it's
even Howard's good, but he was the threat in Miami's secondary.
(01:20):
Like his last first team All Pro was in twenty
twenty one with the Rams, but he made Pro Bowls
in twenty twenty two and in twenty twenty three. Twenty
twenty three only played ten games for the Dolphins, but
he still had three picks. I mean, the guy is
just still I think, a really good corner. And you
asked me as John new Smith now because he'd be
one or excuse me, tight end one over Pat. I
(01:42):
don't know what the answer is with Is Jalen Ramsey
now corner one over Joey Porter Junior?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Probably is.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I don't know, though he's got the pedigree. I think,
like you said, like he wasn't like he's fallen off
like a cliff the last few years. What I want
to happen have happened, though.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Is is that that make JPG the number one.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I want that to be like and I think that
that can happen as early as training camp. I think
that he can show out and maybe that's what the
Steelers approach this season within mind is that Jbj's is
the number one, and it's going to take him not
being able to really get over those grabbiness issues or
him not being able to take that leap forward and
als also seeing Jalen still being really good to kind
(02:20):
of switch the Hey, Jalen's going to take the number
one receiver now in these games. But the other thing
that it does is you are a team now that
might not need to follow receivers. You are a team
now that might be able to have the split the
field strategy when it comes to your corners and just
have Jalen take the right side and JPJ take the
(02:42):
left side and vice versa. Like if Ramsey is still
all Pro caliber, even Pro Bowl caliber, if Joey Porter
Junior takes that step towards being all Pro caliber, like,
you don't need to follow a receiver right whoever lines
up against opposite who is fine with me. It's like
(03:04):
the Jets last year with Sauce Gardner and Dj Reed,
Like the Sauce Gardner didn't follow because DJ Reed just
took the guy on the opposite side of the field.
So maybe that helps. I've heard Matt Williamson say a
lot that they need to get guys that fit what
Joey Porter Junior does best, which is Manda man coverage. Well,
now they got guys that do Manda Man coverage. So
(03:24):
I think you're gonna see a lot of that. And
I saw Jerry Doulac report yesterday because the big question
out of all of this is what's gonna happen in
safety now, because you got three starting corners, starting caliber corners,
and one Thornhill is kind of a starter at safety.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
He saw the tape of him in Cleveland. It's not great.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
He could be if he's just average, like that's all
you really need from him. But I saw Jerry say,
like to solve that, you will very rarely ever see
Sleigh Ramsey import or not on the field together. Those
three guys will pretty much the entire time him play
somewhere in that secondary. And look, maybe they convert Ramsey
(04:05):
to safety. Maybe he sees a boom in his thirties
of his career, kind of a lah Rod Woodson right
where you slide him back to safety. You become an
All Pro again there and you're a nailed on Hall
of Famer, I mean, maybe a first ballot.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
He's probably on his way all the Hall of Fame.
He's got a Super Bowl ring. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Second to Defensive Rookie of the Year. He's never really
according to Pro Football Reference, he's never really finished like
in the balloting for Defensive Player of the Year, And
that's a little bit surprising for me. He lost out
on Defensive Rookie of the Year to Joey Bosa.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Bo said twelve ten and a half sacks that season,
And you know what, it's kind of tougher to make
a name for yourself as a Jalen Ramsey esque corner
in your rookie season as opposed to a Joey Bosa
because Joey Boss has got those ten and a half sacks, right,
Like he's made can splash all the time. Now, Ramsey
had two picks and he had a pick six his
rookie season, But like Ramsey's always and I'm not trying
(05:07):
to take away from him because he does have he
does get interceptions, but like he's more of that guy
that you kind of forget about, right, Like he's more
of that guy that like it's the fourth quarter and
it's like, is Jalen Ramsey playing?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
He is?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And you know who else I don't know is playing?
Jamar Chase. Like he was always that kind of corner.
He was like that guy just doesn't let anybody breathe.
And what made him so much, you know, would put
him into that next level, that next stratosphere was he
was able to be that guy and also find a
way to get four picks a year, find a way
to get three picks a year when it was time,
and when the ball was eventually threw unto him, he
(05:41):
capitalized on it. So we were talking about one of
the all time greats at the cornerback position.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Will he still be that?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
No, But I think he still has a lot left
in the tank that he can still be a very
good to potentially great corner still in this league. And
all of a sudden, now, if one thorn Hill plays
adequately whatever they ask him to do, if these three
guys really gel on the field together, and whatever role
they cast them in, the Steelers, who have really been
(06:08):
struggling in the defensive backfield for a while, especially at
the corner position, never really had a guy there, are
going to all of a sudden like level up to
being maybe one of the best secondaries in football. And
I feel like we're doing a lot of hyperbole today
where it's like we have the best tight end room
in football. We potentially could have one of the best
secondaries in football. I think it's true, though I think
(06:29):
it's warranted. I think the tight end thing is fact.
I think you are the best tight end room. I'm
Baltimore may maybe Baltimore throws one in your face. I
think Andrews and likely are pretty good, but Washington might
be the trump card there. What do they do with Hayward?
By the way, we didn't talk about that in the
first episode. Does he go to fullback through the does
he have to play like fullback? And do they even
want to full back?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Does he just do special teams? Do they cut him? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I mean you have I mean full back would fall
under the half back ubrella. Right, So you have you
already have of Caleb, you have Jalen, you have gain
Well Gazilla Patterson, who I need to see cut two.
But it's just real crowded, is what you're Yeah, yeah,
at both at both tight end and let me say
(07:14):
this and running back. They moved on from Derek Watt. Yeah,
and he didn't, unfortunately find a job in the league
because he was strict. Let's also say this that Derek
Watt was less of a contributor than Connor exactly where
I was going. Yeah, Connor hay will find a job
in the NFL, right, he will be signed by somebody
who will play for another team. He's just in a
very crowded spot right now in Pittsburgh. And the three
guys in front of him, I mean, they're just monsters.
(07:34):
They're just they're just bigger.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, I mean Connor Hayward. It's it's like, but.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
He's had touchdowns in the NFL. But it'd be funny
to see him line up for like the title you
know how they do the position group photos, like right
before the season starts. Yeah, and he Donell and John
New and Pat and then like coming up to like
their chest.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Maybe they keep Connor.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I'm not I'm not trying to talk it into existence.
Maybe they keep him. Maybe they keep four tight ends.
I don't know. But it's gonna be a tough training
camp for Hayward. It's gonna be a he's really gonna
have to prove. He's gonna have to make it real
tough on them. He's gonna have to be a beast
demon on special teams, and he's gonna have to have
big games when he's in there in the preseason games
like and then maybe you can convince him to keep him.
(08:14):
But anyway, I digress back to Jalen Ramsey. You know
that secondary has potential now to be great, and the
corners even if you know, they kind of find some
weird role for Ramsey where he's like in the slot
at nickel, he drops back into safety at base. They
just feel like they're going to be a team that
(08:35):
if the pass rush isn't getting home, if TJ. Watt
is getting triple teamed and can't figure it out, and
Cam Hayward's having a slow day and high Smith is
maybe banged up, or are our rookie Jack Sawyer is
still getting his feet wet, her BIG's not having that
much of an impact. Like now it's like, okay that
or excuse me. For years it was like, if we
(08:56):
don't get pass rush generated, our secondary is gonna get
eaten alive by some of the quarterbacks, like they just
aren't good enough coverage wise. Now it's like, you know what,
weird game for TJ. Watt just can't get home on
Burrow for some reason. But Burrow's got nowhere to throw right,
And now I think you finally have that element to
your defense that you had been kind of missing, especially
(09:16):
for the past couple of years, where Minca was quiet.
Like for years when Minco was getting picked, there was
always that fear factor of like where's thirty nine? Like
that was something that when the pass rush wasn't getting there,
they always had to be like, where's thirty nine at
He's gonna just completely wreck this play And that wasn't
happening for two years straight, and they moved him around.
Mike de Faba pointed this out on Twitter and I
(09:38):
think you joined your show today maybe Yeah. Twenty twenty three,
they moved Mac up into the slot. They say, all right, Mika,
you can do this a lot more and try to
create splash that way, and they blitzed him more than
they blitzed any Steelers defensive back in years. Wasn't working. Okay,
twenty twenty four, we're gonna let you play Nkaball. You
want to play Minkeaball, you can play Mancaball getting that
center field kind of ball hawk it up and he
got one interception over those two seasons. That whole thing
(10:00):
about how the scheme failed him. They tried to fit
him into multiple different schemes and he kind of just
failed them. Maybe he needs a fresh start and he
kind of clicks back into being that all pro. He's
a great safety for the Steelers for years. Sure had
not been the case for two years going on three.
Now I know he's older. I think there is a
question on who's better Menca or Jalen at this point
(10:20):
in his career.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
But they're both good. They're both really great.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Potentially still great, Yeah, and I think I would like
to take my chances with something new in Jalen Ramsons.
I don't blame you for wanting that because what you've seen,
like you said, the team kind of bent over backwards
to give Minka the best opportunity to play his best
football in more than one way, and in more than
one way, he kind of failed to do that. Sometimes
(10:45):
different is just better, And maybe that doesn't prove to
be the case at the end of the year. Maybe
we'll be like, wow, that somehow they were worse. But like,
first of all, I don't think that's going to be
the case. And second of all, like again talking about
shaking palm trees, like sometimes it's just good to do
something different, Like he's just good to have different people
on the team, and like you said to start our
first episode today, they're staking. They're sticking to their word.
(11:08):
They identified the issues last year and said we have
to be different. So not to say that sticking with
Megan fits Patrick would be a huge mistake and going
back on your word because you sit with a mcgal
like Mega Fitzspatrick.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
This guy is a former All Pro safety.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, It's not like you're sticking with a already Burns
out there, right or Sean Davis.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, like you're sicking.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You'd be singing with a guy who has the caliber,
but you wanted to switch it up. And now, like
you said, Tom, with the three cornerbacks who could play
on the field all at the same time alongside to
Sean Elliott, it's going to be it's It would be
shocking if it's not one of the more productive secondaries
in football next year. And you know what, if I'm
(11:49):
on Thornhill, I'm excited because even if they try to
transfer or convert a Ramsey or a Sleigh to safety,
I think it would probably be a Ramsey over Sleigh.
But if they did try to convert Ramsey to that
safe position, that's not going to be like a take it,
you know, throw him right into the fire, like the
one who's gonna play. And this is a saw himself
(12:10):
behind Minka Fitzpatrick for the entire offseason up until this point. Now,
all of a sudden, he might be number one on
the depth chart if they don't convert Jalen Ramsey like
it is something that is it's really spectacular if you
think of it from that perspective. For him, He's got
a big opportunity in front of him, and he doesn't
have to be great because he's not gonna be great.
He doesn't have to be an all progress. He's not
gonna be an all pro. But if he's just average,
(12:32):
that's all they need. Everybody else is going to be
good to great around him. Just don't be the weakest link.
And if he is the weakest link, maybe you do
convert Ramsey. There's a lot of options there, and that's
absolutely Maybe you go out and you get kind of
just an average safety. Still, maybe there's a camp casually
and you're like, that guy could start for us, like
he was just miscast and misusing that team. They tried
(12:53):
to make him the guy we don't need to be
the guy he needs to be the sixth best guy
in our secondary. Maybe that could still happen, but it's
a good opportunity for Thornhill and it's I'm really excited
about what happens in the secondary. Now. We mentioned the
Rod Woodson thing, and I saw Jeremy Fowler bring that
up and say that they see kind of shades the
(13:17):
Steelers do of Rod Woodson in Jalen Ramsey's potential career
arc and you know what, it's a two way. Like
I I heard immediately upon the trade people say, well,
Ramsey gets converted to safety and people were looking up
with how many snaps the eight snaps in safety over
the past three years and he's done this much in
his NFL career at safety college and it's not much
(13:38):
safety there. Like guy's been a corner in his life,
and you know, you see a lot of people kind
of just tucked it into existence. And I'm sitting back
here and I'm just like, this isn't Madden, though, Like
you don't just get Ramsey and go to edit player
and change him from corner to safety.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And it's good.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Like I need to hear someone ask him at a
press conference and I'm sure he's gonna get introduced soon.
Maybe it'll take a little bit because it is the
fourth of July, so maybe they might wait a little
bit for that introductory press conference. But I just think
that someone needs to say, are you okay with switching
to safety if that comes to pass, Like are you
willing to do that?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Would you embrace that?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Is it something you want to do? And maybe he
gives you lip service and says the right answer and
just is like, yeah, I'd love to do it. But
then it actually happens and he begrudgingly goes about it.
Maybe he's enthusiastic about it, or maybe he says no,
maybe he says, you know, on a corner, kind of
like Joe Hayden, Dude, I don't know, but like I
need to hear someone ask him, and I need to
hear those words come out of his mouth. Because as
(14:34):
much as you want to talk into this, oh, he
could have the Rod Woodson arc. Oh, it would make
sense if you convert him to safety. That would really
make the Steeler secondary, especially in their base package, really
come together nicely. Like as much as you can say that,
as much as you want it to be a one
Way Street and ain't and especially ain't with somebody that
has those kind of accolades like and I'm sure that
maybe the Steelers dip their feet in the water and
(14:56):
if they really want to go full boar at him
being a safety kind of had an inkling before they
made that trade, at least you would hope. Or maybe
that's something that and I heard Williamson and Dale say
this on the drive yesterday, Maybe that's something that's down
the road for the Steelers, right like, maybe that's the
long term vision with Jalen Ramsey with the Pittsburgh Steelers
is yeah, we will get him to safety, but right now,
let's have him be our corner two or a Corner
(15:17):
one B Corner one, a potentially opposite of Joey Porter
Junior this year. I think there's a lot of options
and a lot of potential runways still. And people are
right when they say that the Steelers are older. But
I do take a little bit of umbrage when it
comes to Jalen Ramsey and it comes to Johnny Smith,
because these guys are thirty and thirty one years old.
Thirty one, Jalen is gonna be thirty one. Johnny Smith's
(15:38):
gonna be thirty. And that's like for for receivers, for
tight ends, especially like you see them.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Get better with these.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, late bloomers are like why why knock them for
adding a veteran Kelsey took a couple of years to
be Kelsey. Well, yeah, Kelsey wasn't a stud coming out
in the coming out of Cincinnati in twenty twelve a
lot and he had a lot of character issues like
he fell, oh yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
He almost got cut, not cut, but like expelled from since.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
This he did, and Andy Reid took the flyer on him. Yeah,
So like tight ends take seasoning a lot of times.
You get a lot of like baby giraffish with the
tight ends, right like when they get to the NFL
because they try to build their body up now to
the NFL body, and they got to kind of learn
how to carry that extra weight with them now and
still be that route runner and still be that pass catcher.
Like it's kind of a feeling out process sometimes, Like
(16:22):
Kyle Pitts is going through that right now, and he
was supposed to be a phenom immediately. I still think
Kyle pits is going to be a really good tight end.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Like, I mean, he's gonna have had a thousand yards
last year.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, Like maybe there's a little bit of stigma on
him already from the out of the gate.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So like a look at the quarterbacks he played.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, like I think Pitts is going to really come
into his own and be a stellar player in this league.
And again, it just takes some seasoning sometimes for these guys.
I also don't think like it's it's I just keep
parkening back to what Jared Dulax said about you're gonna
see these guys on the field together a lot. Like
it's probably gonna be a lot of cover one which
I wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
A problem with.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
It might be a little weird for on Elliott playing
that free safety role because that was a lot of
Miga Fitzpatrick's role last year. But still like to have
those four guys in the field Elliott, Ramsey, Sleigh and Porter.
The name recognition is there, the talent is there, so
whatever way you want to go about it, I wouldn't
(17:19):
have a problem with it. And if you want to
go nickel defense too and bring in maybe not a Thornhill,
but maybe a Beanie Bishop, then still like I find
trouble finding like the weak point of that defense, of
that secondary. I do it too, and I really now
find trouble finding that weak point of the secondary, or
(17:41):
excuse me, of the defense overall. I mean, I guess
the defensive line still has some questions. But I like
what they did this offseason in that area. They drafted
a first round pick, Derek Harmon as a defensive lineman.
They have I'm trying to think here, uh whyya Black
in the drafts too? They've got not on Travis Adams,
They've got why can't think his name? Keanu Betton still
(18:04):
see he needed Kany. You need to make me remember
your name. This is a year where you need to
force me to never forget that, because it's a big
year for you, buddy, And of course you have the
All Pro and Cam and maybe some things can even
be taken off of his plate a little bit. This
year got Watt high Smith and her big You throw
Jack Sawyer into that mix too. Queen and Wilson looked
(18:24):
great towards the end of last season. I'm excited for Wilson,
but then Holcome's coming back as well. There's excitement Lake
Harrison is going to be a really solid player, I
bet from Baltimore. As like the fifth string, there's no
real weakness. I think. I think every position group has
quality starters and quality depth pieces. I guess now you
(18:45):
make the weakest link the safeties because you just don't
know if he's gonna take that mantle or what. Right,
because because every other position, look at, defensive line has
Cam outside Lineberger has TJ inside Lineberger has Queen. Quarterbacks
have Slay and Ramsey and those guys. Well, I'm just
saying the guys have been on pros All Pro members.
(19:06):
I know first teamers. Well, Queen was the second, but
it doesn't matter. He was on to add him into that. Sure, yeah, absolute,
it makes the argument better. And high Smith's an animal too,
like high Smiths.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Like he could get he could get to a second
team All Pro.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
That's just the tenth best ed rusher in football. Like
the Steelers have two top ten edge rushers right now.
You can easily make that argument when he's healthy. High
Smiths is an animal. So I mean they just have
no holes. And that's why I think this year there's
no excuse to be a top three defense in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, Like I gotta feel like you've got a trap though,
because dominating that. You gotta been saying that for a
while now.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Okay, well maybe okay, so let's put it this way.
Ever since they fell out of that position, we've been saying,
you gotta get back to that. You gotta like, there's
no excuse to not get back to that this season.
And it doesn't happen to matter other than points per game, Like,
isn't that the only Like we we talked about this
a lot two years ago when the Browns were having
this historic season with Jim Schwartz his first year I
(20:04):
believe as DC in Cleveland, and they were allowing like
one hundred and eighty yards or something per game, like
best in the league in like a decade plus, right,
But they were still like twentieth in the league in
points again, and the Sewers were like top two, and
people were saying, well, oh my god, the Cleveland defense
is so much better, And.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
We were sitting here saying, is it you sure about that?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
But now you have that ability to I mean, we
know the splits, right, when the Sewers allow a certain
amount of points, it's like nine if they allowed nineteen
points or more or eighteen points or less.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You know the splits they are.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
First of all, they have so many more games where
they allow eighteen points or less and their record is
like six hundred or like six twenty. But when they
allowed nineteen points or more, it's not great. But that's
not so much on the defense. That's more so on
the offense not being able to cut keep up. Look,
if you have a low points per game yielded average,
(21:07):
your yards tow yards is going to be low too.
It's just natural. I think last year the Steelers finished
in eighth place as far as points per game allowed
as concerned, they gave up by the end of it,
twenty point four points per game. You got to get
up towards Denver, Philly in LA who were one, two
three in that order, Denver third, Philly second, LA first
(21:29):
charge to the best defense as far as points per
game a lot Chargers seventeen point seven to Philly seventeen
point eight to the Broncos eighteen point three. You gotta
be under twenty like this defense means that what I
just said right eight when it's eighteen. Maybe it was
nineteen to twenty, but regardless, you have to be you
have to be top three defense as far as that
metric is concerned this year. And you're right, it's you know,
(21:50):
maybe we missed that by point four, right and your
top four defense, but you're still averaging on the eighteen
points per game, and that's you're still satisfied with that result.
But it's got to be that result. I mean, I
know you moved on from Minca, but you brought in
an all pro in his place. This defense should be better,
This defense should be more complete. Maybe I'm putting a
(22:10):
lot of stock in the Derek Harmon basket too. He
is gonna be a big factor when it comes to this.
He obviously can you know, have less pressure on him
because of a guy like Cam Hayward also being in
the room. But like he's gotta come in and make
impact this year. And Benton, like I said, it's gotta
make a name for himself this year. Like he's got
to establish himself. And and I'm joking because I know
(22:31):
you listen, Ke, I'm joking right now, Like I know
your name, and it was just a brain fart. Make
money for yourself, brother, yeahs, time you get a contract extension,
especially like when you look at the circumstances of the team,
Like you could be the face of that defensive line
in a couple of years when Cam, well, I'm just saying,
when Cam Hayward, it's Derek cart could be. You could be,
(22:53):
or you could be a part of a tandem with him.
Just sure, very very good you could be to Hayward.
Let me just say this, it examine exactly, like you
don't have to be the guy, but you could be
a guy that everyone relies on and trusts, and again
make your money and get that second contract with the
team that trust. There's a sense of pride that you
should to get a second contract with the team that
(23:15):
drafted you, because that means that the guys that picked you,
that sat in that room watched your film three four
years ago, we made the right decision, Like this dude worked. Yeah,
we did it, Like give him money, pay the man.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
He's so.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I think someone else to that point pointed out, how
now if you equatenka Fitzpatcher to a former first round pick,
which is what you got him for, right, you traded
your twenty twenty first round draft pick when you acquire
Mika in twenty nineteen, But that's another first round draft
pick that's no longer on the team, So let's talk
(23:48):
about that for a second. Yeah, what does this say
about that Maga trade. I don't know. You give him
first round pick.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
For I think it was I think it was worth it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
He was multiple time All Pro for you to that
point that we were just talking about Canon Button. You
did sign it to a second conment, got a second
contract out of him, and I think you got at
I don't know when when was that? Was that three
years ago you signed that deal, So I think you
guy at least one All Pro season out of him
in that second contract, in the second contract. Yeah, and
(24:15):
you got multiple out of him ever since you gave
up the first round pick.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right, Oh yeah, that's so far his first season on
the team, his.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
First team All Pro that that's so far behind us
to that draft pick, Like that's multiples behind that that
you're kind of already you should be already recovered.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You played in Pittsburgh for six seasons.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah. I don't want to say that it makes it
a bad trade now because they moved on from him. No,
I think you did expect him when you may give
up a first round pick, like this is our safety
for the future now, like, this guy's going to be
here until he decides to hang out.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Honestly, six years for a guy is.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's a lot. It's not as much as you would think.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
If he was an All Pro last year, they wouldn't
have done this now, like if he had the impact.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Even two years ago, like, yeah, don't go two years.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That was only one interception, right, right, I mean we're
talking about a guy who had five four to two,
which was down. You know, he did down and then
he led the league next year with six and was
back to being first team and he got on the
ballot for Defensive Player of the Year. He finished tenth
that season and that was it. That was his last
really great season in the NFL. And yeah, there was
(25:20):
that all he played center field and oh you know
he takes away stuff that you don't see on film.
They were getting gashed a lot, yeah they were, and
he was missing tackle, he was missing games. Yeah, And
a caller brought up a good point yesterday, like he
getting crushed in the run game at the end of
the years played that suck out? Is that Derek Harmon
run of the playoffs were Derrick Henry Henry just stiff
(25:42):
armed him into a oblivion.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, like and open in the open field, which is
which used to be his bread and butter, open field tackle.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
He used to always fly up and run support. Yeah,
he'd leave the team in tackles and we'd be like,
that's a problem that maker has to stop the run
so much. He wasn't doing that effectively either. Elliott was
actually doing that a lot better. And when Elliott was
out it was a problem. They couldn't tackle anymore, and
then run really started to gash them. So it's not
a bad trade, you got it either, but it is
(26:10):
now something to add to that list of what the
Steelers draft history.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Those guys aren't on the team. They're not retaining their draft.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Technically, your first round pick that year was Menca and
now makes gone. How do you think he feels about
going back to Miami because he wanted out of Miami.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, but that was a totally different team. There was
no Mike McDaniel, right, it was a totally it was
I think the quarterback at the time was Ryan Fitzpatrick.
And how could you hate Miami, right, I mean yeah,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Of course it's great palm trees.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I think I think it was a totally different You remember,
Miami was tanking, tanking, tanking, tanking, and he.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Didn't want to be a part of that, right he
would have been you know what, ironically though, if he
would have just kind of bit his tongue and just
waited on some good teams, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
They would have tanked and still gotten to anyway.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Moved on from or moved on from Flora's and brought
him and like you said, like Xavian Howard's there, but
makes better like Xavin Howard six years ago was great.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, I mean they could have worked together.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Let's put it that way. He would have played.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
They were in playoffs without him, I know.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So they will ask him that though. When he goes
to the presser at Miami, they'll be like, welcome back,
the right thing. So, like, I'm excited to be back here.
It's cool, it's a different team, but I'm excited to
join this team. So now you have Mika Fitzpatrick off
of the Pittsburgh Steelers. That was it was such a funny,
like way the trade I'll say it's sad. The way
(27:33):
the trade broke was funny. Like Jayleen Ramsey's a Steeler
I was like, oh, what happened? Oh my god, Maka's
going to the ram.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well you thought there was a good I mean, I
don't know if I was going with experience this.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I saw the video and there was like a ten
second or maybe like sixty second window where I thought,
oh my gosh, the second aary now has Jaalen Ramsey,
Darius Say, Joey.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Porter Junior to Chhne Elliott and make If Fitzpatrick. And
then I saw Chefter chime in and I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I was wondering if it was gonna be a second
round pick, Like what did you have to give up
to get Jalen Ramsey player for players? Crazy? And that
was at first I was like, manka for Jalen straight up,
that's a little much. And then Johnny comes slide over
like I forget the pick, swat whatever. Getting two players
for one, yeah, pretty damn good. Two starters for one.
(28:15):
It's pretty damn good. And by the way, one of
the starters has the exact same amount of First Team
All Pross the one you just traded Mega Fitzpatrick.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Nika had four, not.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Three, because three first team All Pros and Jayalen Ramsey
is three first team All pros, Like you literally get
kind of a one for one player exchange.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And you get tight ened tight end.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
You get a number one tight end on top.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Of that's the thing too, it's it's the number one
tight end, right.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You know what's funny about Jalen and Minka. Three first
team All pros between both of them, they've never been
a second team All Pro. It's always.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
And it's not necessarily bust either.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Those are tough. You've seen guys like cornerback is real
tough to get an All Pro nod. Yeah, I mean
there's two spots on the first team in two spots
on the second team. Guys start two corners per team,
so it's a difficult thing to crack, which makes their
resumes all the more impressive. All Right, when we come back,
we'll keep talking about these trade. I keep want to
say these trades because of all we'll talk about the
(29:16):
trade and we'll talk about where the Steelers now sit
as far as the AFC is concerned, and did this
up their chances to make a run win a playoff game?
All that fun stuff on the Steelers Standard and Steelers
Nation Radio and the Steelers Audio Network
But he talked a little bit, well a lot of
bit about Johnny Smith coming in on the offensive side
of the ball. Think that that's gonna maybe end up
being the big part of this trade for the Steelers.
But Jalen Ramsey is the name. I mean, that guy
is going into the Hall of Fame. That guy is
a three time first team All Pro. And you know,
hear a lot of people talk about how the Steelers
(00:39):
are old, right and how they're getting older, and they
got older with this trade, and that's true minus twenty eight.
Jalen Ramsey's thirty. But you kind of like hear the
talk and it's like, is Jalen Ramsey thirty five? Like
as old? You and I have had that discussion before.
Is he as old as Darius Lay? And then you
look and you're like, no, he's so you're thirty still?
(00:59):
And yet it maybe thirty is going to be where
it starts to fall off for him. But he wasn't
awful in Miami last year. He played all seventeen games,
He had two interceptions, and people just didn't really throw
to him because he was the only I mean, it's
even Howard's good, but he was the threat in Miami's secondary.
(01:20):
Like his last first team All Pro was in twenty
twenty one with the Rams, but he made Pro Bowls
in twenty twenty two and in twenty twenty three. Twenty
twenty three only played ten games for the Dolphins, but
he still had three picks. I mean, the guy is
just still I think, a really good corner. And you
asked me as John new Smith now because he'd be
one or excuse me, tight end one over Pat. I
(01:42):
don't know what the answer is with Is Jalen Ramsey
now corner one over Joey Porter Junior?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Probably is.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I don't know, though he's got the pedigree. I think,
like you said, like he wasn't like he's fallen off
like a cliff the last few years. What I want
to happen have happened, though.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Is is that that make JPG the number one.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I want that to be like and I think that
that can happen as early as training camp. I think
that he can show out and maybe that's what the
Steelers approach this season within mind is that Jbj's is
the number one, and it's going to take him not
being able to really get over those grabbiness issues or
him not being able to take that leap forward and
als also seeing Jalen still being really good to kind
(02:20):
of switch the Hey, Jalen's going to take the number
one receiver now in these games. But the other thing
that it does is you are a team now that
might not need to follow receivers. You are a team
now that might be able to have the split the
field strategy when it comes to your corners and just
have Jalen take the right side and JPJ take the
(02:42):
left side and vice versa. Like if Ramsey is still
all Pro caliber, even Pro Bowl caliber, if Joey Porter
Junior takes that step towards being all Pro caliber, like,
you don't need to follow a receiver right whoever lines
up against opposite who is fine with me. It's like
(03:04):
the Jets last year with Sauce Gardner and Dj Reed,
Like the Sauce Gardner didn't follow because DJ Reed just
took the guy on the opposite side of the field.
So maybe that helps. I've heard Matt Williamson say a
lot that they need to get guys that fit what
Joey Porter Junior does best, which is Manda man coverage. Well,
now they got guys that do Manda Man coverage. So
(03:24):
I think you're gonna see a lot of that. And
I saw Jerry Doulac report yesterday because the big question
out of all of this is what's gonna happen in
safety now, because you got three starting corners, starting caliber corners,
and one Thornhill is kind of a starter at safety.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
He saw the tape of him in Cleveland. It's not great.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
He could be if he's just average, like that's all
you really need from him. But I saw Jerry say,
like to solve that, you will very rarely ever see
Sleigh Ramsey import or not on the field together. Those
three guys will pretty much the entire time him play
somewhere in that secondary. And look, maybe they convert Ramsey
(04:05):
to safety. Maybe he sees a boom in his thirties
of his career, kind of a lah Rod Woodson right
where you slide him back to safety. You become an
All Pro again there and you're a nailed on Hall
of Famer, I mean, maybe a first ballot.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
He's probably on his way all the Hall of Fame.
He's got a Super Bowl ring. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Second to Defensive Rookie of the Year. He's never really
according to Pro Football Reference, he's never really finished like
in the balloting for Defensive Player of the Year, And
that's a little bit surprising for me. He lost out
on Defensive Rookie of the Year to Joey Bosa.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Bo said twelve ten and a half sacks that season,
And you know what, it's kind of tougher to make
a name for yourself as a Jalen Ramsey esque corner
in your rookie season as opposed to a Joey Bosa
because Joey Boss has got those ten and a half sacks, right,
Like he's made can splash all the time. Now, Ramsey
had two picks and he had a pick six his
rookie season, But like Ramsey's always and I'm not trying
(05:07):
to take away from him because he does have he
does get interceptions, but like he's more of that guy
that you kind of forget about, right, Like he's more
of that guy that like it's the fourth quarter and
it's like, is Jalen Ramsey playing?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
He is?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And you know who else I don't know is playing?
Jamar Chase. Like he was always that kind of corner.
He was like that guy just doesn't let anybody breathe.
And what made him so much, you know, would put
him into that next level, that next stratosphere was he
was able to be that guy and also find a
way to get four picks a year, find a way
to get three picks a year when it was time,
and when the ball was eventually threw unto him, he
(05:41):
capitalized on it. So we were talking about one of
the all time greats at the cornerback position.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Will he still be that?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
No, But I think he still has a lot left
in the tank that he can still be a very
good to potentially great corner still in this league. And
all of a sudden, now, if one thorn Hill plays
adequately whatever they ask him to do, if these three
guys really gel on the field together, and whatever role
they cast them in, the Steelers, who have really been
(06:08):
struggling in the defensive backfield for a while, especially at
the corner position, never really had a guy there, are
going to all of a sudden like level up to
being maybe one of the best secondaries in football. And
I feel like we're doing a lot of hyperbole today
where it's like we have the best tight end room
in football. We potentially could have one of the best
secondaries in football. I think it's true, though I think
(06:29):
it's warranted. I think the tight end thing is fact.
I think you are the best tight end room. I'm
Baltimore may maybe Baltimore throws one in your face. I
think Andrews and likely are pretty good, but Washington might
be the trump card there. What do they do with Hayward?
By the way, we didn't talk about that in the
first episode. Does he go to fullback through the does
he have to play like fullback? And do they even
want to full back?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Does he just do special teams? Do they cut him? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I mean you have I mean full back would fall
under the half back ubrella. Right, So you have you
already have of Caleb, you have Jalen, you have gain
Well Gazilla Patterson, who I need to see cut two.
But it's just real crowded, is what you're Yeah, yeah,
at both at both tight end and let me say
(07:14):
this and running back. They moved on from Derek Watt. Yeah,
and he didn't, unfortunately find a job in the league
because he was strict. Let's also say this that Derek
Watt was less of a contributor than Connor exactly where
I was going. Yeah, Connor hay will find a job
in the NFL, right, he will be signed by somebody
who will play for another team. He's just in a
very crowded spot right now in Pittsburgh. And the three
guys in front of him, I mean, they're just monsters.
(07:34):
They're just they're just bigger.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, I mean Connor Hayward. It's it's like, but.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
He's had touchdowns in the NFL. But it'd be funny
to see him line up for like the title you
know how they do the position group photos, like right
before the season starts. Yeah, and he Donell and John
New and Pat and then like coming up to like
their chest.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Maybe they keep Connor.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I'm not I'm not trying to talk it into existence.
Maybe they keep him. Maybe they keep four tight ends.
I don't know. But it's gonna be a tough training
camp for Hayward. It's gonna be a he's really gonna
have to prove. He's gonna have to make it real
tough on them. He's gonna have to be a beast
demon on special teams, and he's gonna have to have
big games when he's in there in the preseason games
like and then maybe you can convince him to keep him.
(08:14):
But anyway, I digress back to Jalen Ramsey. You know
that secondary has potential now to be great, and the
corners even if you know, they kind of find some
weird role for Ramsey where he's like in the slot
at nickel, he drops back into safety at base. They
just feel like they're going to be a team that
(08:35):
if the pass rush isn't getting home, if TJ. Watt
is getting triple teamed and can't figure it out, and
Cam Hayward's having a slow day and high Smith is
maybe banged up, or are our rookie Jack Sawyer is
still getting his feet wet, her BIG's not having that
much of an impact. Like now it's like, okay that
or excuse me. For years it was like, if we
(08:56):
don't get pass rush generated, our secondary is gonna get
eaten alive by some of the quarterbacks, like they just
aren't good enough coverage wise. Now it's like, you know what,
weird game for TJ. Watt just can't get home on
Burrow for some reason. But Burrow's got nowhere to throw right,
And now I think you finally have that element to
your defense that you had been kind of missing, especially
(09:16):
for the past couple of years, where Minca was quiet.
Like for years when Minco was getting picked, there was
always that fear factor of like where's thirty nine? Like
that was something that when the pass rush wasn't getting there,
they always had to be like, where's thirty nine at
He's gonna just completely wreck this play And that wasn't
happening for two years straight, and they moved him around.
Mike de Faba pointed this out on Twitter and I
(09:38):
think you joined your show today maybe Yeah. Twenty twenty three,
they moved Mac up into the slot. They say, all right, Mika,
you can do this a lot more and try to
create splash that way, and they blitzed him more than
they blitzed any Steelers defensive back in years. Wasn't working. Okay,
twenty twenty four, we're gonna let you play Nkaball. You
want to play Minkeaball, you can play Mancaball getting that
center field kind of ball hawk it up and he
got one interception over those two seasons. That whole thing
(10:00):
about how the scheme failed him. They tried to fit
him into multiple different schemes and he kind of just
failed them. Maybe he needs a fresh start and he
kind of clicks back into being that all pro. He's
a great safety for the Steelers for years. Sure had
not been the case for two years going on three.
Now I know he's older. I think there is a
question on who's better Menca or Jalen at this point
(10:20):
in his career.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
But they're both good. They're both really great.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Potentially still great, Yeah, and I think I would like
to take my chances with something new in Jalen Ramsons.
I don't blame you for wanting that because what you've seen,
like you said, the team kind of bent over backwards
to give Minka the best opportunity to play his best
football in more than one way, and in more than
one way, he kind of failed to do that. Sometimes
(10:45):
different is just better, And maybe that doesn't prove to
be the case at the end of the year. Maybe
we'll be like, wow, that somehow they were worse. But like,
first of all, I don't think that's going to be
the case. And second of all, like again talking about
shaking palm trees, like sometimes it's just good to do
something different, Like he's just good to have different people
on the team, and like you said to start our
first episode today, they're staking. They're sticking to their word.
(11:08):
They identified the issues last year and said we have
to be different. So not to say that sticking with
Megan fits Patrick would be a huge mistake and going
back on your word because you sit with a mcgal
like Mega Fitzspatrick.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
This guy is a former All Pro safety.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, It's not like you're sticking with a already Burns
out there, right or Sean Davis.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, like you're sicking.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You'd be singing with a guy who has the caliber,
but you wanted to switch it up. And now, like
you said, Tom, with the three cornerbacks who could play
on the field all at the same time alongside to
Sean Elliott, it's going to be it's It would be
shocking if it's not one of the more productive secondaries
in football next year. And you know what, if I'm
(11:49):
on Thornhill, I'm excited because even if they try to
transfer or convert a Ramsey or a Sleigh to safety,
I think it would probably be a Ramsey over Sleigh.
But if they did try to convert Ramsey to that
safe position, that's not going to be like a take it,
you know, throw him right into the fire, like the
one who's gonna play. And this is a saw himself
(12:10):
behind Minka Fitzpatrick for the entire offseason up until this point. Now,
all of a sudden, he might be number one on
the depth chart if they don't convert Jalen Ramsey like
it is something that is it's really spectacular if you
think of it from that perspective. For him, He's got
a big opportunity in front of him, and he doesn't
have to be great because he's not gonna be great.
He doesn't have to be an all progress. He's not
gonna be an all pro. But if he's just average,
(12:32):
that's all they need. Everybody else is going to be
good to great around him. Just don't be the weakest link.
And if he is the weakest link, maybe you do
convert Ramsey. There's a lot of options there, and that's
absolutely Maybe you go out and you get kind of
just an average safety. Still, maybe there's a camp casually
and you're like, that guy could start for us, like
he was just miscast and misusing that team. They tried
(12:53):
to make him the guy we don't need to be
the guy he needs to be the sixth best guy
in our secondary. Maybe that could still happen, but it's
a good opportunity for Thornhill and it's I'm really excited
about what happens in the secondary. Now. We mentioned the
Rod Woodson thing, and I saw Jeremy Fowler bring that
up and say that they see kind of shades the
(13:17):
Steelers do of Rod Woodson in Jalen Ramsey's potential career
arc and you know what, it's a two way. Like
I I heard immediately upon the trade people say, well,
Ramsey gets converted to safety and people were looking up
with how many snaps the eight snaps in safety over
the past three years and he's done this much in
his NFL career at safety college and it's not much
(13:38):
safety there. Like guy's been a corner in his life,
and you know, you see a lot of people kind
of just tucked it into existence. And I'm sitting back
here and I'm just like, this isn't Madden, though, Like
you don't just get Ramsey and go to edit player
and change him from corner to safety.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And it's good.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Like I need to hear someone ask him at a
press conference and I'm sure he's gonna get introduced soon.
Maybe it'll take a little bit because it is the
fourth of July, so maybe they might wait a little
bit for that introductory press conference. But I just think
that someone needs to say, are you okay with switching
to safety if that comes to pass, Like are you
willing to do that?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Would you embrace that?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Is it something you want to do? And maybe he
gives you lip service and says the right answer and
just is like, yeah, I'd love to do it. But
then it actually happens and he begrudgingly goes about it.
Maybe he's enthusiastic about it, or maybe he says no,
maybe he says, you know, on a corner, kind of
like Joe Hayden, Dude, I don't know, but like I
need to hear someone ask him, and I need to
hear those words come out of his mouth. Because as
(14:34):
much as you want to talk into this, oh, he
could have the Rod Woodson arc. Oh, it would make
sense if you convert him to safety. That would really
make the Steeler secondary, especially in their base package, really
come together nicely. Like as much as you can say that,
as much as you want it to be a one
Way Street and ain't and especially ain't with somebody that
has those kind of accolades like and I'm sure that
maybe the Steelers dip their feet in the water and
(14:56):
if they really want to go full boar at him
being a safety kind of had an inkling before they
made that trade, at least you would hope. Or maybe
that's something that and I heard Williamson and Dale say
this on the drive yesterday, Maybe that's something that's down
the road for the Steelers, right like, maybe that's the
long term vision with Jalen Ramsey with the Pittsburgh Steelers
is yeah, we will get him to safety, but right now,
let's have him be our corner two or a Corner
(15:17):
one B Corner one, a potentially opposite of Joey Porter
Junior this year. I think there's a lot of options
and a lot of potential runways still. And people are
right when they say that the Steelers are older. But
I do take a little bit of umbrage when it
comes to Jalen Ramsey and it comes to Johnny Smith,
because these guys are thirty and thirty one years old.
Thirty one, Jalen is gonna be thirty one. Johnny Smith's
(15:38):
gonna be thirty. And that's like for for receivers, for
tight ends, especially like you see them.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Get better with these.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, late bloomers are like why why knock them for
adding a veteran Kelsey took a couple of years to
be Kelsey. Well, yeah, Kelsey wasn't a stud coming out
in the coming out of Cincinnati in twenty twelve a
lot and he had a lot of character issues like
he fell, oh yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
He almost got cut, not cut, but like expelled from since.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
This he did, and Andy Reid took the flyer on him. Yeah,
So like tight ends take seasoning a lot of times.
You get a lot of like baby giraffish with the
tight ends, right like when they get to the NFL
because they try to build their body up now to
the NFL body, and they got to kind of learn
how to carry that extra weight with them now and
still be that route runner and still be that pass catcher.
Like it's kind of a feeling out process sometimes, Like
(16:22):
Kyle Pitts is going through that right now, and he
was supposed to be a phenom immediately. I still think
Kyle pits is going to be a really good tight end.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Like, I mean, he's gonna have had a thousand yards
last year.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, Like maybe there's a little bit of stigma on
him already from the out of the gate.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So like a look at the quarterbacks he played.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, like I think Pitts is going to really come
into his own and be a stellar player in this league.
And again, it just takes some seasoning sometimes for these guys.
I also don't think like it's it's I just keep
parkening back to what Jared Dulax said about you're gonna
see these guys on the field together a lot. Like
it's probably gonna be a lot of cover one which
I wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
A problem with.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
It might be a little weird for on Elliott playing
that free safety role because that was a lot of
Miga Fitzpatrick's role last year. But still like to have
those four guys in the field Elliott, Ramsey, Sleigh and Porter.
The name recognition is there, the talent is there, so
whatever way you want to go about it, I wouldn't
(17:19):
have a problem with it. And if you want to
go nickel defense too and bring in maybe not a Thornhill,
but maybe a Beanie Bishop, then still like I find
trouble finding like the weak point of that defense, of
that secondary. I do it too, and I really now
find trouble finding that weak point of the secondary, or
(17:41):
excuse me, of the defense overall. I mean, I guess
the defensive line still has some questions. But I like
what they did this offseason in that area. They drafted
a first round pick, Derek Harmon as a defensive lineman.
They have I'm trying to think here, uh whyya Black
in the drafts too? They've got not on Travis Adams,
They've got why can't think his name? Keanu Betton still
(18:04):
see he needed Kany. You need to make me remember
your name. This is a year where you need to
force me to never forget that, because it's a big
year for you, buddy, And of course you have the
All Pro and Cam and maybe some things can even
be taken off of his plate a little bit. This
year got Watt high Smith and her big You throw
Jack Sawyer into that mix too. Queen and Wilson looked
(18:24):
great towards the end of last season. I'm excited for Wilson,
but then Holcome's coming back as well. There's excitement Lake
Harrison is going to be a really solid player, I
bet from Baltimore. As like the fifth string, there's no
real weakness. I think. I think every position group has
quality starters and quality depth pieces. I guess now you
(18:45):
make the weakest link the safeties because you just don't
know if he's gonna take that mantle or what. Right,
because because every other position, look at, defensive line has
Cam outside Lineberger has TJ inside Lineberger has Queen. Quarterbacks
have Slay and Ramsey and those guys. Well, I'm just
saying the guys have been on pros All Pro members.
(19:06):
I know first teamers. Well, Queen was the second, but
it doesn't matter. He was on to add him into that. Sure, yeah, absolute,
it makes the argument better. And high Smith's an animal too,
like high Smiths.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Like he could get he could get to a second
team All Pro.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
That's just the tenth best ed rusher in football. Like
the Steelers have two top ten edge rushers right now.
You can easily make that argument when he's healthy. High
Smiths is an animal. So I mean they just have
no holes. And that's why I think this year there's
no excuse to be a top three defense in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, Like I gotta feel like you've got a trap though,
because dominating that. You gotta been saying that for a
while now.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Okay, well maybe okay, so let's put it this way.
Ever since they fell out of that position, we've been saying,
you gotta get back to that. You gotta like, there's
no excuse to not get back to that this season.
And it doesn't happen to matter other than points per game, Like,
isn't that the only Like we we talked about this
a lot two years ago when the Browns were having
this historic season with Jim Schwartz his first year I
(20:04):
believe as DC in Cleveland, and they were allowing like
one hundred and eighty yards or something per game, like
best in the league in like a decade plus, right,
But they were still like twentieth in the league in
points again, and the Sewers were like top two, and
people were saying, well, oh my god, the Cleveland defense
is so much better, And.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
We were sitting here saying, is it you sure about that?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
But now you have that ability to I mean, we
know the splits, right, when the Sewers allow a certain
amount of points, it's like nine if they allowed nineteen
points or more or eighteen points or less.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You know the splits they are.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
First of all, they have so many more games where
they allow eighteen points or less and their record is
like six hundred or like six twenty. But when they
allowed nineteen points or more, it's not great. But that's
not so much on the defense. That's more so on
the offense not being able to cut keep up. Look,
if you have a low points per game yielded average,
(21:07):
your yards tow yards is going to be low too.
It's just natural. I think last year the Steelers finished
in eighth place as far as points per game allowed
as concerned, they gave up by the end of it,
twenty point four points per game. You got to get
up towards Denver, Philly in LA who were one, two
three in that order, Denver third, Philly second, LA first
(21:29):
charge to the best defense as far as points per
game a lot Chargers seventeen point seven to Philly seventeen
point eight to the Broncos eighteen point three. You gotta
be under twenty like this defense means that what I
just said right eight when it's eighteen. Maybe it was
nineteen to twenty, but regardless, you have to be you
have to be top three defense as far as that
metric is concerned this year. And you're right, it's you know,
(21:50):
maybe we missed that by point four, right and your
top four defense, but you're still averaging on the eighteen
points per game, and that's you're still satisfied with that result.
But it's got to be that result. I mean, I
know you moved on from Minca, but you brought in
an all pro in his place. This defense should be better,
This defense should be more complete. Maybe I'm putting a
(22:10):
lot of stock in the Derek Harmon basket too. He
is gonna be a big factor when it comes to this.
He obviously can you know, have less pressure on him
because of a guy like Cam Hayward also being in
the room. But like he's gotta come in and make
impact this year. And Benton, like I said, it's gotta
make a name for himself this year. Like he's got
to establish himself. And and I'm joking because I know
(22:31):
you listen, Ke, I'm joking right now, Like I know
your name, and it was just a brain fart. Make
money for yourself, brother, yeahs, time you get a contract extension,
especially like when you look at the circumstances of the team,
Like you could be the face of that defensive line
in a couple of years when Cam, well, I'm just saying,
when Cam Hayward, it's Derek cart could be. You could be,
(22:53):
or you could be a part of a tandem with him.
Just sure, very very good you could be to Hayward.
Let me just say this, it examine exactly, like you
don't have to be the guy, but you could be
a guy that everyone relies on and trusts, and again
make your money and get that second contract with the
team that trust. There's a sense of pride that you
should to get a second contract with the team that
(23:15):
drafted you, because that means that the guys that picked you,
that sat in that room watched your film three four
years ago, we made the right decision, Like this dude worked. Yeah,
we did it, Like give him money, pay the man.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
He's so.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I think someone else to that point pointed out, how
now if you equatenka Fitzpatcher to a former first round pick,
which is what you got him for, right, you traded
your twenty twenty first round draft pick when you acquire
Mika in twenty nineteen, But that's another first round draft
pick that's no longer on the team, So let's talk
(23:48):
about that for a second. Yeah, what does this say
about that Maga trade. I don't know. You give him
first round pick.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
For I think it was I think it was worth it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
He was multiple time All Pro for you to that
point that we were just talking about Canon Button. You
did sign it to a second conment, got a second
contract out of him, and I think you got at
I don't know when when was that? Was that three
years ago you signed that deal, So I think you
guy at least one All Pro season out of him
in that second contract, in the second contract. Yeah, and
(24:15):
you got multiple out of him ever since you gave
up the first round pick.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Right, Oh yeah, that's so far his first season on
the team, his.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
First team All Pro that that's so far behind us
to that draft pick, Like that's multiples behind that that
you're kind of already you should be already recovered.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You played in Pittsburgh for six seasons.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah. I don't want to say that it makes it
a bad trade now because they moved on from him. No,
I think you did expect him when you may give
up a first round pick, like this is our safety
for the future now, like, this guy's going to be
here until he decides to hang out.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Honestly, six years for a guy is.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's a lot. It's not as much as you would think.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
If he was an All Pro last year, they wouldn't
have done this now, like if he had the impact.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Even two years ago, like, yeah, don't go two years.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That was only one interception, right, right, I mean we're
talking about a guy who had five four to two,
which was down. You know, he did down and then
he led the league next year with six and was
back to being first team and he got on the
ballot for Defensive Player of the Year. He finished tenth
that season and that was it. That was his last
really great season in the NFL. And yeah, there was
(25:20):
that all he played center field and oh you know
he takes away stuff that you don't see on film.
They were getting gashed a lot, yeah they were, and
he was missing tackle, he was missing games. Yeah, And
a caller brought up a good point yesterday, like he
getting crushed in the run game at the end of
the years played that suck out? Is that Derek Harmon
run of the playoffs were Derrick Henry Henry just stiff
(25:42):
armed him into a oblivion.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, like and open in the open field, which is
which used to be his bread and butter, open field tackle.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
He used to always fly up and run support. Yeah,
he'd leave the team in tackles and we'd be like,
that's a problem that maker has to stop the run
so much. He wasn't doing that effectively either. Elliott was
actually doing that a lot better. And when Elliott was
out it was a problem. They couldn't tackle anymore, and
then run really started to gash them. So it's not
a bad trade, you got it either, but it is
(26:10):
now something to add to that list of what the
Steelers draft history.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Those guys aren't on the team. They're not retaining their draft.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Technically, your first round pick that year was Menca and
now makes gone. How do you think he feels about
going back to Miami because he wanted out of Miami.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yeah, but that was a totally different team. There was
no Mike McDaniel, right, it was a totally it was
I think the quarterback at the time was Ryan Fitzpatrick.
And how could you hate Miami, right, I mean yeah,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Of course it's great palm trees.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I think I think it was a totally different You remember,
Miami was tanking, tanking, tanking, tanking, and he.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Didn't want to be a part of that, right he
would have been you know what, ironically though, if he
would have just kind of bit his tongue and just
waited on some good teams, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
They would have tanked and still gotten to anyway.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Moved on from or moved on from Flora's and brought
him and like you said, like Xavian Howard's there, but
makes better like Xavin Howard six years ago was great.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, I mean they could have worked together.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Let's put it that way. He would have played.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
They were in playoffs without him, I know.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So they will ask him that though. When he goes
to the presser at Miami, they'll be like, welcome back,
the right thing. So, like, I'm excited to be back here.
It's cool, it's a different team, but I'm excited to
join this team. So now you have Mika Fitzpatrick off
of the Pittsburgh Steelers. That was it was such a funny,
like way the trade I'll say it's sad. The way
(27:33):
the trade broke was funny. Like Jayleen Ramsey's a Steeler
I was like, oh, what happened? Oh my god, Maka's
going to the ram.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well you thought there was a good I mean, I
don't know if I was going with experience this.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I saw the video and there was like a ten
second or maybe like sixty second window where I thought,
oh my gosh, the second aary now has Jaalen Ramsey,
Darius Say, Joey.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Porter Junior to Chhne Elliott and make If Fitzpatrick. And
then I saw Chefter chime in and I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I was wondering if it was gonna be a second
round pick, Like what did you have to give up
to get Jalen Ramsey player for players? Crazy? And that
was at first I was like, manka for Jalen straight up,
that's a little much. And then Johnny comes slide over
like I forget the pick, swat whatever. Getting two players
for one, yeah, pretty damn good. Two starters for one.
(28:15):
It's pretty damn good. And by the way, one of
the starters has the exact same amount of First Team
All Pross the one you just traded Mega Fitzpatrick.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Nika had four, not.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Three, because three first team All Pros and Jayalen Ramsey
is three first team All pros, Like you literally get
kind of a one for one player exchange.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And you get tight ened tight end.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
You get a number one tight end on top.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Of that's the thing too, it's it's the number one
tight end, right.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You know what's funny about Jalen and Minka. Three first
team All pros between both of them, they've never been
a second team All Pro. It's always.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
And it's not necessarily bust either.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Those are tough. You've seen guys like cornerback is real
tough to get an All Pro nod. Yeah, I mean
there's two spots on the first team in two spots
on the second team. Guys start two corners per team,
so it's a difficult thing to crack, which makes their
resumes all the more impressive. All Right, when we come back,
we'll keep talking about these trade. I keep want to
say these trades because of all we'll talk about the
(29:16):
trade and we'll talk about where the Steelers now sit
as far as the AFC is concerned, and did this
up their chances to make a run win a playoff game?
All that fun stuff on the Steelers Standard and Steelers
Nation Radio and the Steelers Audio Network
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