John McClain joins Marc Vandermeer and John Harris to discuss his upcoming documentary on the history of integration in Texas High School football. Plus, Plenty on the Texans and their AFC competition.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome Texans. Mark Vandermere and John Harris with you. The
show begins. It's a holiday program Juneteenth. A lot of
people have time off, a lot of people don't. So
we appreciate those who are working today to make life
great for everybody else and themselves too. Because I think
you're earning a nice check. I hope you are. I
hope it's time and a half or whatever. Holidays warrant.
(00:22):
Who knows I might have started something with some people
by saying that I'm not getting time and a half.
Wait a minute, Should I be all right? I'll just
start over. Welcome everybody, Okay. John McClain joins us tonight.
The General is with us after a week off. But
you were very much on General. So you made your trip,
and I want to hear about this first holiday show.
We have some time to get into this. You made
(00:44):
your trip to the Florida Keys to meet with Jimmy
Johnson regarding your documentary, How did it go? Tell us
about the experience. Good evening.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It couldn't have been better. Thank you for having me.
Mark Burn's a director, and I drove to the producers,
Rob Lanch and Scott Nethery flew and then I flew
back and Jimmy could not have been more accommodating. He
has a bar restaurant sports bar restaurant called the Big
Chill in Key Largo. He lives south of that And
(01:16):
when we first contacted him, and the reason we wanted
Jimmy was nineteen sixty in the semi finals of the
state for a playoffs port Arthur Jefferson went up against
Corpus Christy Miller. Miller beat him six to zero, and
Miller beat Wichita Falls the next week and won the
first integrated state championship in Texas high school history. And
(01:39):
the head coach, Pete Regas, who we interviewed, love him.
He told us Jimmy Johnson was the best player they
went up against and all they had to do game planning,
and they scored one touchdown on a reverse by Johnny Rowland,
who spent thirty five years in the NFL as a
running back and as a coach. So we thought we
talked to Jimmy, and we did. We talked to him
(02:00):
about that game. We talked to him about the times
when you had the black all black pv I L
and all White U I L. And Jimmy was great.
He said, you know when we used to play. I
had a big yard in our house and we used
to play. We had black kids, we had white kids,
we had Hispanic kids, and we would play and then
(02:21):
when it got dark, our parents would call us in
and then we'd go to our separate high schools, and
we just never thought about it, and looking back on it,
of course, he was very honest about you know, how
bad it was and what the black kids went through.
But he was terrific, and I know he had a
blast because he told us, he said, when this guy,
(02:43):
when this comes out, you guys let me know because
I want to help you promote it. And we said,
oh yeah, we'll be reaching out to you because he
got a lot of friends who could tweet it and
retweet it. So we just we had a blast and
it was funny. His sports bar there, one of the
women that's worked for him for a long time was
(03:03):
talking about the biggest crowds they get or when the
Panthers play, and of course Florida Panthers just won their
second consecutive Stanley Cup and on our career, we talked about, man,
it would have been fun to be there and watch
them celebrate that championship. But the thing about Jimmy is,
you know, you retired from Fox after last season. He'd
(03:24):
done it thirty one years and so now he doesn't
have to fly across country to LA every weekend. He
can watch in his house. He said, he's got three
big screen TVs. He can watch college all day, he
can watch the NFL all day. And he said, I
still love football. I love watching football. And he'll be
(03:45):
eighty two when teams report to trade. Company's in really
really good shape.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
General, what's the release date or do you have a
release date for the documentary? And way of asking this,
but as you continue to uncover more and more stories,
kind of where's the ending point when you guys have
kind of set for when this thing will be released.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We're hoping to have everything finished and ready to go
and hoping it will premiere at south By Southwest Film
Festival in Austin in March, that's the second biggest in
North America, and then get at other film festivals and
hopefully people will like it, want to distribute it, pay
us some money for distributing it. We're hoping since there's
(04:32):
so many members of the Pro Football of Fame who
played the pvi i L. The last three who are
alive and Joe Green, Kenny Houston who lives here at Kingwood,
and Thomas from Angleton. Joe's from Temple and we you know,
we're hoping because players from the pvi IL played with
every NFL team and maybe get teams to run a
(04:56):
version of it on their website, maybe a Football Live
for thirty. But we're really excited because we haven't found
anybody else that's doing that has done what we're doing.
Their books like the Definitive pv IL book, Michael Hurd
wrote Thursday Night Lights, and there's other books and articles,
(05:19):
but we haven't found a good documentary. Our last trip
is going to be Canton, Ohio. We're going to shoot
the bus and other things in the Hall of Fame
that we can find about the pv i L. We're
also road trip probably next month to Dallas to interview
Mike Singletary because Mike Singletary, Warren Boone, Eric Dickerson, Andre
(05:43):
Ware and those guys are great players who are telling
us they couldn't have done what they did without standing
on the shoulders of those players and coaches from the
pv I L. We haven't been turned down by anybody
in one trip. We're really looking forward to going out
(06:05):
to Brady in West Texas, where Santana Dodson and his dad,
Alphonse Dodson have a winery. And Alphonse played for the
Raiders with Eldridge Dickey, who played at Booker T Washington
here then Tennessee State, and he was the greatest PVL
quarterback who went on to the Raiders first black quarterback
(06:26):
drafted in the first round in nineteen sixty eight. But
Al Davis somehow moved to wide receiver and he passed
around for four years and had got on hard times
and died in two thousand. But the stories we've been
told about about him have been pretty unbelievable. In Warren
Moone told us he wouldn't be playing quarterback if not
(06:47):
for Elders Dickey, and I said, what are you talking about.
He grew up LA he didn't have to play in
an all black high school leagues and NOE. But I
knew who he was, and I used to when he
went to Tennessee State and he threw the ball like crazy,
like I wanted to do when I got older. He
was my inspiration and every time somebody wanted to move me,
I thought about Eldridge Dicky and I wouldn't have played
(07:11):
quarterback without him. So it's pretty powerful. Some of it
makes you sick to your stomach when you see what
they experienced as far as racism, but we have yet
to find one person who's bitter about what they experienced.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Wow. Can't wait to see this next spring. Looking forward
to it. John McLean joining us and the visit with
Jimmy Johnson brings up this question. Is Jimmy Johnson properly rated?
So we have overrated, underrated, properly rated? As an NFL
head coach? He won two Super Bowls. He kind of
probably deserves some credit for the third. I mean, how
does Barry Switzer have a Super Bowl championship ring and
(07:48):
Marv Levy and Bud Grant do not? But somehow that
happens in life. But tell me about Jimmy Johnson, your
thoughts of Jimmy Johnson as a coach. How do you
rate him?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I'll tell you a story. Wade Phill had a roast
and a toast in Port Arthur about five or six
years ago, and I was honored to be one of
the speakers. JJ White was another one. His son West
is now the offensive coordinator for the Vikings. And Jimmy
(08:18):
had known Wade forever and I was and I Jimmy
likes to drink Heineken, makes no has no reservations about.
He drinks it over ice. So we were in the
hotel talking ball. And then when we were at the table,
I told him he's gonna get in the Hall of Fame.
And he told me what And he said he didn't
(08:39):
coach long enough and the way it ended Miami, and
I said, people don't even remember you coached the Dolphins.
And so I always believe that one of the reasons
his career was short. But he had total control of
his roster, and he made a lot of trades, and
(08:59):
he had a good scouting department, and so what he did,
the players he drafted he traded for. All of them
were home runs, but a lot of them were like
trading his backup quarterback Steve Wallsh to the Saints for first,
second and third round picks. You know, we talked about
rschal Walker being a bad trade. That was a pretty
(09:21):
bad one in itself.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And so I told him, because of the decisions he
made in personnel, that putting it head of a lot
of other coaches. And I'm so glad he got in
because I know he believe he earned it.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
John McLean joining us, Hey, one question about Jimmy Johnson
making trades, draft picks, et cetera. We talk about the
Jimmy Johnson draft trade chart. So if Jerry was the
GM and Jerry was so instrumental, did Jimmy really run everything?
How instrumental was Jerry Jones in the construction of the
Dallas Cowboys upon the hiring of Jimmy fo the Landry era.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, the way that worked out, Jimmy had in his
contract he had vials say on all personnel. And he
told his story when we put him into Texas Sports
Hall of Fame that when they started winning after the
first one in fifteen season, then seven and nine, then
they started winning big and his whole plan was to
be good by the third year, was Jerry is that
(10:25):
practice would stay up doing all deals. And then Jerry
started coming down. He said, I knew we were in trouble.
This was at the Hall of Fame when Jerry told
me he wanted to get a job involved in personnel,
and I think if Jerry and Jimmy, I'm guessing more
than once had to remind him to check the contract.
And I'm guessing if Jerry had still been satisfied with
(10:51):
doing those old deals and stuff and left Jimmy coaching
no time, he's super bowls they could have won even
though the salary cap and free agency came in in
ninety three. But they had their Big three and they
had a way of They did a great job coaching.
I mean, Barry Switzer is the first to tell you, you know,
(11:11):
he took Jimmy's players and he won a super Bowl
with them. He always gave Jimmy credit for that, so
I he could I don't know how long you would
have coached. I'm guessing that if he and Jerry had
not clashed and he would have, you know, he might
have coached into double digits.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I always gave him credit for what he did with
the Dolphins too. He put together a really good defense
and Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Patrick Sartan Senior, all those
Sam Madison, all those guys were Jimmy Johnson guys. They
built a hell of a team. They just couldn't replace
the quarterback, which is difficult to do, but they couldn't
get that part of it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
You don't say finding your quarterback is very difficult in
this league.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
But they went to the playoffs all the time. They
just couldn't get over the hump. Yeah, exactly, You're right.
He did a good job Miami, which made me think
about this. As we were talking about this last night,
we were watching a show on Netflix. I won't tell
you what the show is, but it was about the
Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and at one point, somebody says Jerry
Jones or another asked a trivia question or a question
(12:15):
about what's the title for Jerry Jones, and one of
them says CEO and founder, And I was like, oh, no,
not the founder. And then when they say the real
answer and it includes general manager, my wife looks over
at me and goes, Jerry's the general manager, and I
was like, it's complicated, babe, Like it's complicated. I don't
(12:37):
really want to get in to that one.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Speaking of quarterbacks general I don't know that we've talked
about this. I can't remember because you may have been
on a trip when this actually finally happened. But Aaron
Rodgers has finally gotten himself into an NFL building, signing
with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Does it make a ripple because
it's Aaron Rodgers. Do you think it makes the Steelers
(13:00):
that much better with him taking over? We know how
well with the Jets didn't go well, Brett Farm didn't
go well in the year with the Jets, but then
the next year with the Vikis, they're really really good
and he was really good. Do you think Rogers can
come resurrect the final part of his career in Pittsburgh?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Well, they won ten games last year, didn't they. I
don't see them in that division winning more than ten games. Now.
Usually when you have major surgery, you guys know this.
It's the second year back when you're you find out
if you're all the way back mentally and physically. And
at the end of the year he played a lot
better than he did early. So I think Rogers is
(13:38):
going to play well. But I still don't see them
winning eleven games, or they might sneak in with a
wild card birth if they win ten, I think the
FC is going to be very balanced, and I think
he'll make He'll make them a better offense. Obviously, Now
whether they'll be better on defense, or with Nazierra's gone,
(14:01):
if the running game would be as good. Yes, they
traded for DK Metcalf, but he's going to get doubled
all over the field. And had they kept George Pickins
and understand why they didn't because he was a royal
paint in the bud, but either he or Metcalf wasn't
going to get doubles. So I think they can win
ten games with Rogers, just like they did last year.
(14:23):
But I do not see them being a Super Bowl
contender general.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
The Texans played the entire AFC West and we're all
celebrating what happened to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl,
except for Kansas City fans, of course. But they won
fifteen games in the regular season. We know they won
a lot of close games, but they won them fifteen
to two. My goodness. Who's the bigger threat to them
in that division? The Chargers or the Broncos. The Raiders
finished last. I think they'll be better. I've said that before,
(14:50):
but Broncos Chargers bigger threat to the Chiefs, which one.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You would have to say the Broncos because they had
a great defense led to the league in sacks. They
did a this job of coaching that defense, and Bo
Nicks has got to be better in his second season,
and he was really good in the first. And they've
tried to add some weapons and improve the offensive line.
(15:14):
So I would say them, you know, it's hard for
me to save the Chargers because last time I saw
the Chargers they were getting annihilated by the Texans at
NRG Stadium. So I'm going to say Denver with the
Chargers next. And the thing about the Chiefs, over the
last thirty years, only one Super Bowl loser's gone back,
(15:35):
and that was the Patriots. So the odds are the
Chiefs are not going back to the Super Bowl, which
to me means it be a Lamar Jackson Josh Allen
competition to go to the Super Bowl and see which
one went first. But I don't see Kansas City would
be a threat, of course, but look at what happened
to the forty nine Ers last year. It's just a
(15:58):
litany of teams for whatever reason. When they lose the
Super Bowl, they should be the hungriest team in sports,
but they're not. They have a Super Bowl losing hangover,
and it'd be nice to see that happen to the
Chiefs because the Texans of course have to play them again.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I think what's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
We talked about this for a while, and part of
it is because of the quarterbacks in the AFC, But
we talk about what a gauntlet the AFC is, right,
Joe Burrow, Mahomes Lamar Josh. And yet since twenty nineteen,
the only team other than the Chiefs that's gotten to
a Super Bowl one time is the Bengals.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And yet we talk about how great the AFC is.
You think of the AFC.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Was that good that somebody would knock off the damn Chiefs?
And I don't know, maybe it starts this year, but
it's like, oh, the AFC is a gauntlet. O. Chiefs
are the only one that a has won a Super
Bowl and be the Bengals the only other team that's
gotten there one time. I don't know, It's just kind
of fascinating way think about it. But you mentioned Justin
Herbert general and it's list season, so a lot of
(17:05):
people have been put out lists, and it's mind blowing
in some sense to see Justin Herbert ranked so high,
especially how he finished the season in the playoffs for
the second consecutive playoff game for him. As Mark said
the other day, he had one good half and he said,
three lousy halves of playoff football. And yet he's consistently
(17:25):
ranked as number five, number six, number seven when you
start ranking the quarterbacks. So I'll ask you and Mark
the same question. You got to go win one game,
the biggest game you're playing. Are you taking Justin Herbert
or a healthy Dak Prescott?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh, I'm taking Justin just Well, boy, that's a tough one,
and I'm proud of that one has won a lot
of big regular season games. And Herbert, of course, he
was in the playoffs. But you know, I think we've
seen him two times against the Tech since at NRG
Stadium and it wasn't his fault, but the Texans waylaid
(18:05):
them both times. And so I'm going with Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Okay. I that's a tough one, Shoe, Yeah, it is tough.
And that's a really difficult one. Great question. I can
I pick neither guy, I'm Cooper Rush, Cooper Rush, No,
you can't take Taylor Heineke. You got to pick one
to win one game, biggest game of the year. Dak Prescott, healthy,
(18:30):
I think I've taken Dak Herbert. I think Dax made
enough mistakes in the postseason to understand what to avoid.
Whether he avoids those things remains to be seen. They're
late games, what playoff? Was it? The late game situation
where they didn't spot the ball properly and couldn't get
the ball snapped.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That was the forty nine ers, wasn't.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It against the Yeah, that in a regular season situation
is inexcusable, and it would dominate talk for a week,
but you end your season on that. Hopefully for him
they learned from it. For us, I hope they never
learned from it, of course, general a lot of talk
about the Texans building a practice facility. Stories in the Chronicle,
(19:13):
Mike Toman, the president of the Texans, giving some information
and I guess it's anybody's guess where it's really ultimately
going to be. But you tell me this because this
one was thrown at me when I was out and about, Hey,
what did the Oilers do? Where did they practice? We
all know they played in the Astrodome. Where did the
Oilers practice? And I know this is ancient history really
(19:35):
because when the Texans emerged, they built everything within the
stadium within the grounds of NRG Park. Hey see, I
got it all figured out. We're gonna have white locker
year round. But anyway, what did the oilers do when
they existed back in the day.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Let me say Charlie casually did not want to practice
at the stadium because he said he didn't want free
agents coming in their march and smelling horse.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
But as Bob to, if we pay them, they'll come,
And so they had it, had it there for convenience purposes.
And then a couple of years before Bob died, he
and Cow were going around looking for a spot and
they were going I think the horse track, the dog track.
Different counties wanted them. And I pointed out, began to
(20:19):
buy a helicopter because it doesn't take you a long
time to fight traffic to get out to where your
new facility is going to be, wherever it is. And
of course they got it worked out. I'd always hope
that they could do build one over there on that
third field, the fathers from Kirby. But the way the
oilers had it when I started covering them, they had
(20:40):
this little dump on the corner of Braiswood and Fenning
and I think there's still an oil Derek over there.
It's a parking lot. And they had like a one
bench press, a few dumbbells and that was it. And
they practiced and they ran and they sweated, and then
in nineteen eighty two they moved into what they thought
(21:03):
was the taj Mahal over on Holly Hall, close to
the Dome. And if you saw it now it belongs
to some politician uses it as an office. But if
you saw it, you'd go, my god, the oiler's practice there.
There was a dump but and it was compared to
when all the others started to get nicer ones. So
(21:25):
they were close and convenient, but boy, those facilities were
not very good, and Bud Adams wanted him to be
close to where he lived in River Oaks, even though
he only came to practice maybe once a year.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Hey, you said, we're still once a year. That's another
one I want to get into. Holy are you serious?
Only once a year.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
No, he didn't come to practice. He would come to
training camp once a year for this State of the Oilers.
One time he came and he was so proud of
the way he looked. He was wearing lime green shorts
came down to his knees, black socks had pulled up
to his knees, and he was wearing a pith helmet
(22:08):
with a fan in it. That's tons of writing that
he looked like a bad extra from a White five. Oh,
and he thought he looked great, and so he came
out and he addressed the players as he did every year.
But we never saw Bud at practice at all.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Pith helmet with a fan in it sounds like a
good hack, I think, Johnny, Yeah, this sounds like a
very good hack. Could work for me.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Hey, General, yesterday, earlier in the day, and I said yesterday,
I mean wednesday, we saw news that a Jacksonville real
estate developer was buying apparently the Tampa Bay Rays one
point seven billion. I thought, okay, it's it's a little low,
I think, but way low happened later in the Well,
that's where I'm getting to. Then, the Lakers are sold
(22:55):
for ten billion, ten billion dollars to Dodgers majority owner
Mark Walter. What do you think that does to NFL franchises?
The last one that was sold was Commanders to Josh Harris,
I think was six billion. What do you think that
does just the Lakers for ten billion being sold, what
(23:16):
do you think that does the NFL franchise.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Values on First John on Jacksonville in the Rays, they
don't have a stadium. So that's why that seemed low.
That guy's gonna have to come up find a stadium,
whether it's in Tampa or Saint Pete, whether the politicians
approve it, or he's gonna have to build it. But
he didn't have a home. And I think this about
the Lakers. The Cowboys are the most valuable franchise in
(23:40):
professional sports according to Forbes, and that includes all the
big soccer teams in Europe. So at the Lakers and
Jeannie Bust and her family retained seventeen percent, and I
believe that Walter owned twenty one percent as it was.
And so can you imagine what Jerry would get for
(24:03):
the Cowboys right now? Because the Knicks are valued higher
by Forbes than the Lakers. And I don't know James
Dolan is ever going to sell or leave it to
his family. And it's the NFL has a rule no
foreign ownership, NBA and Baseball does not, So at some point,
(24:23):
you know, say the saudis called up an owner and
said we'll give you fifty billion for your franchise. All
of a sudden, the NFL is going to be rewriting
that by law so you can get foreign investment, because
there's no end to where it goes. I think everybody
is shocked by the ten billion figure, and every NFL
owner has got to be rubbing his hands together and
(24:46):
lee over that deal.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
For the Lakers, why did the previous owners of the
race call up the Saudis and say, hey, you know what,
all these live golfers, nobody cares get a Major League
Baseball franchise. All you have to do is park a
couple of billions here for a stadium and you're good
to go.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
How that would have been a very smart thing to
do if they wanted a franchise in Tampa or Saint Pete.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, and there's no other market. Obviously, Vegas will have
the A's. I don't think you can go anywhere else.
You can't do baseball in San Antonio, right, I mean,
that's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
They're talking about the next the Nashville and nash Charlotte, Yes,
would be the next two franchises, and they're prepared. They
have a baseball group in Nashville for the last three
years to have everything ready to go for when baseball expans.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh, I can't wait to see how all this stuff
shakes out. And I also can't wait to see where
the practice facility is going to be. News should come
out soon, well allegedly soon. Yeah, this will be really interesting,
really interesting to see how the Texans handle this one,
how it's handled with the Texans and their partners, and
what ultimately transpires. All right, general, we're in the middle
(25:56):
of the desert, and we asked Jonathan this, We asked
john this. I answer the question, how you feeling? How
you feeling about the season? We're done with many camp.
It's in the rear view mirror. We got a long
way to go till training camp. But it's going to
happen before you know it. And when everyone's asking you
how are you feeling about the Texans, you answer the question.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Go People ask me that every day and I say,
I can't wait for training camp. I wish it was tomorrow.
And they have a super Bowl caliber defense, and until
they figure out the offensive line, they won't have a
super Bowl caliber offense. I've got a lot of confidence
in the wide receivers. I think they should run away
(26:38):
with the AFC South again. Don't think anybody's even close
to them. I think they'll hope that they I don't
think they'll get a bye, but they'll win a first
round game. And the thing I want to see, and
I know you guys do too, is for the first
time since the franchise was born, get beyond the divisional
(26:58):
round of the playoffs, hopefully hosting an AFC championship game here.
But I don't think the Texans are up there with
Baltimore and Buffalo and Kansas City yet. It may take
another off season, but there's certainly good enough to run
away with AFC South. And if you do that in
the offensive line is even just mediocre, it'll be such
(27:21):
an improvement over last season.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Great stuff general, as always, thanks so much for being
with us.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Thank you guys very much for having me on this
lovely Thursday night.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
All right, coming up, we'll do a who's Better with coaches.
Johnny is going to be on the spot, so we'll
find out what he has to say about the questions
I throw at him, and you can play along at home.
It's Texans Radio. Great to have you along for the
ride here Texans Radio. Mark Vandermere and John Harris with
you as we count down the days to training camp. There,
(27:52):
I am, do we get Johnny? Yeah, I told you
yesterday I said, don't do that, but I'm doing it
now because we're over a month. But it's gonna dial
down pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Hey, we saw the news yesterday that both rookies and
vet's going to report on July twenty second. Now, I
don't know what that means as far as dates yet.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Of training camp, but if they're reporting on a twenty second,
if that's official. Yeah, yeah, the NFL reported that yesterday.
I think you practiced the day after your report to
start practicing. Now practice as we saw last year, these
days it's different. It's an abbreviated ramp up practice the
first two to three days, and then you get the
(28:32):
real heavy stuff. So I think they'll stick their feet
in the water, their toes, maybe more than the toe,
the feet up to the ankle, maybe the knees, and
then they'll get it going in pads four or five
days in right, that's what they've done the last couple
of years.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Like everybody, Oh, you got to have I think the
rule is three day you have to have three days.
But I think I remember correctly. The last couple of years,
we think pads are coming on day four.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
They don't. Yeah, it's day five.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
So they go a full four days in out of
pads and then put the pads on day five, if
I remember correctly. So we'll see, we'll see what the
what the case is, just got to get this get
this team ready and stay healthy. We just there's a
document that our preseason TV crew has got going around
Dave Keeney, our producer, with Kevin and d and myself
(29:24):
and then Shelby Coppage and it's like, hey, put in
all the storylines, and so David fed it with a
bunch of storylines.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
So I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
All of them like, oh man, it's getting me excited,
so excited about the season, so excited about the preseason
games and just seeing these guys and pads, seeing how
the offensive line comes together, how it gels. I think
one of the biggest pieces Mark that I have been
really excited about just hearing a lot guys and six
been playing the sound of Titus Howard talking about the
(29:51):
offensive line and moving over to guard and you know,
what I said at the end of last year. I
think I think he played really well at guard, Like
I think he can be a very good guard. But
I think to be able to do that, I think
you had he has to make the step of accepting
that that role, and it feels like he's more accepting
of it now than ever before.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
And I think if that is one thing, because.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
We got tackle bodies for days seemingly now obviously, get
a guy hurt here and a guy tweaks a hamstring there,
and all of a sudden, Okay, that depth can go
up and smoke it a little bit, but you feel
like you got a lot of tackle bodies, and those
the tackle positions will end up getting filled and I
think ably filled.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
But if you can just lock in one of those
guard spots right now, Titus at right guard, seemingly, if
you could just lock in that right guard spot and
just go, yeah, we know that's going to be a
good spot for us because Titus is there and Titus
is going to play well. Just think about how that
changes everything on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah, knowing that's going to happen at that guard spot
where you struggled.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
The last few years, Well, you know he's gonna play
one of them, Ronald Yeah. Yeah, and they've got enough
guys to fill in. I hate to use that term,
but to play tackle. Blake Fisher, right, he can play
right tackle, Cam Robinson Earth. We got a lot of
reps and the OTA sessions. Now these are without pads, obviously,
but good to see a rookie out there getting a
lot of business in the OTA time of year with
(31:15):
Mini camp. All right, let's do this who's Better Coaches version?
Oh boy, we're not going to mention every coach in
NFL history. It's funny because I stumbled on this list
and this could really sidetrack us. But oh no, I won't.
I won't spend too much time. ESPN ranks the top
twenty coaches of all time, and it's nothing to do
with in the NFL. Yes, with the victory lists that
(31:37):
I don't include college on these lists. I know college
coaches are great. There's so many great college coaches. However,
when you can go out and just get guys, yeah
I need a left tackle, get me three of them,
yeah yeah, get me four quarterbacks. I know it's different
now with nil it's a lot harder than it was. Sure,
but when you can go do that, when you choose,
(31:58):
it's a different landscape. It's almost a different sport that way,
when you can just go get players to fortify your
roster as opposed to the NFL. Well, you can get
guys too in free agency, but your limited salary cap.
You all know how it works. I don't have to
explain this to you. Vince Lombardi's their number one, Bill
Walsh number two, Don Shula number three. So this list
is NFL coaches, NFL coaches. Okay, yeah, oh we can
(32:22):
so Vince won, Vince one, which is great, all right,
Good for Vince Lombard. Bill Walsh because he was such
a patriarch of the offensive side of the football, that
innovation and then taking that and winning with it. He
wrote that book, the book that all the coaches read,
The coach. Yeah, they all love it. Paul Brown was six,
(32:42):
but who'd you say was three? Don Schula, he's the
whole time winner. Okay, yeah. Belichick Belichick seven, Yeah, I know, Okay,
I bet I understand, I bet I can write that paragraph.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
We put Bill Belichick at number seven because we feel
like his success was predicated on Tom Brady.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
More so than maybe Belichick as a coach. I bet
that's what it is. Yeah, probably because before him he
has the three that I mentioned. Then George hallis Chuck Nole.
I don't put Chuck Nolle in front of Bill Belichick,
no way, know how, no day of the week. All
these guys are excellent. Okay, so nobody sucks, but Belichick
deserves to be in front of Chuck Noll. Paul Brown,
(33:23):
I get it because he won championships in that other
league before joining the NFL. He was great in the NFL.
He was he was an offensive patriarch. He was the
Bill Walsh of the forties and fifties. Yeah, Bill Walsh
coached under him and got a lot of stuff for him.
So I might put Paul Brown higher. I'm not go Lombardi,
Paul Brown, Bill Walsh. Yeah, maybe I think Paul Brown.
(33:43):
You know he'd begat Yeah, Bill Walsh, Yes, So maybe
he put him in front. Landry is eighth on this list.
Joe Gibbs ninth. Joe Gibbs is an underrated underrated completely
on these lists, my god, completely under They go back
to Curly Lambeau. I can't. Yeah, it's such a different era.
He's great founded the Green Bay Packers, coach them, he
(34:05):
and George Hallis. It's like they deserve their own category. Yeah,
it's tough to put them in there.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I mean modern modern football relatively speaking, and those eras
that they were coaching in.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I mean, obviously the.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Forward pass was still i would say in its infantile stages,
but it still was in its infantile stages.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Really, But to me on that, on that list, I
feel like.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Asking the question the right way of asking this, what
did you bring from an innovation standpoint to the game.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
How did you change the game? How did you change
the game?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
And I think about Joe Gibbs and Joe Gibbs with
the artists formerly noticed the Redskins. He won super Bowls
with three different quarterbacks, first of all art styles. Yeah,
like Chuck Nol went everyone with the with Terry Bradshaw,
you have the same team, right, But Chuck Chuck Noll
also incorporated and obviously had defensive coordinators that ran a
different type of defensive system that his guys were were
(35:07):
great with. But Paul Brown basically invented watching film. He
invented the coach comp system in a helmet, you know,
he won with with Jim Brown, and then Jim retires
and they Graham Otto Graham. He wins with automatic auto.
He has, you know, his guards, Chuck don Shula, I
(35:29):
think being one of them running plays in and out
of the huddle. Maybe Chuck Nole running plays in and
out of the huddle. Joe Gibbs when he's with the Redskins,
he invents the one back offense because he couldn't block
Lawrence Taylor. Now, sometimes some of these innovations are born
out of we got to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, that's necessity. Necessity is the mother of invention, right,
and so, but he still he came up with the
one back offense. Yeah, good for him. And he also
coached under Don Coriel, who was an offensive innovator. Right,
So there's some stuff there. Now. Parcels is eleventh on
this list. I'll read you the rest of the names.
You tell me if any one of these guys deserves
to be ahead of Parcels. Parcells, who won two Super
(36:08):
Bowls with the Giants, turned around multiple franchises. I give
him a lot of credit for turning around the Patriots,
the Jets, Jets, the Cowboys. I mean, he really brought
each of those three from the dull drums, from the
abyss to the postseason. All right, John Madden, I think
Parcells is in front of him. Yes, Chrs. Johnson is
(36:29):
a tough one. I mean, he built the new Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I think what you said about Parcels, though, is the
fact that Parcells did it in a number of different locations.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Now we talked about we talked about Jimmy Johnson and Jimmy.
Jimmy did a decent job with Miami. But I mean,
Jimmy built that thing.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
In Dallas, but you could say Parcels built the thing
in New York.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
He was almost fired and Cardinals with two different quarterback,
which you're right, you kind of get a plus for that.
And you know, again, everybody's put Jimmy in front of Madden. Okay,
you'd put Jimmy. Put Jimmy in front of Masters. One
super Bowl, Tom Coughlin, I'm not putting in front of Parcels. No,
He's got two Super Bowl wins, he built the Jags.
(37:17):
Two AFC Championship Game appearance is very nice.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
I'm glad to have him ranked on this because I
think Coughlin is he goes to that underrated stage. Joe
Gibbs too left off a lot of times, because when
you think about Tom Kauflin, it's the first thing you're
thinking about. Fifteen minutes early is not on time?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Is on time? On time is fifteen minutes late time?
You know. So you think about those kind of things
with Coaughlin and you forget. Damn he had two runs
to a Super Bowl with the Giants after almost nearly
getting fired in two thousand and seven. They turned that
thing around. He wins two super Bowls with that organization,
so I think it's awful for good.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
And then what he did with the Jaguars, you know,
building that from scratch essentially. So I'm glad Coughlin's mentioned that,
But I can't put in front of parcels.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
But Grant Hankstram, he might deserve to be higher on
this list. Marv Levy Grant Levy each lost four Super Bowls,
but they got there. They're awesome. Sid Gilman, Sid Gilman
who coached the Oilers for a bit, Yeah, coach the
Chargers back in the day.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
That's more the AFL kind of innovation, like bringing the
passing game in vogue, you know at Lance allwork.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
John Haden was a quarterback. They were doing Dog Coriel
like things out in San Diego with that group before
Coriel really made it famous. Yeah, this list does not
include anybody who's active. Let me check. So I guess
these are inactive guys. You know. I think that's their angle,
because who could you include. I mean, obviously Belichick is
(38:43):
now inactive. As far as the NFL goes, Mike Shanahan's
on the list. Wow. Oh, two super Bowl wins went
to three others, very different teams, same quarterback. Tony Dungee
wins one super Bowl doesn't even go to the other
because that was Jim Caldwell with the Colts. He built
the Bucks out of nothing. I mean, John McKay did
nice things with them, but then they submerge and he
(39:04):
brings them back. So that's good. He's the twentieth guy
in the list. Anyway, that's their top twenty list. But
I want to go to some current guys, Johnny, and
we're gonna settle this once and for all. Who's better Boo,
Pete Carroll or John Harbaugh? Who's better? Pete Carroll? Now,
hear me out, hear me out, can make a case
(39:26):
for both. John Harball has had Lamar Jackson and he's
had the top seed twice yep, and he's got one
playoff win combined. The both times he's had the top
seed with Lamar Jackson, he got off to a great start.
Joe Flackow and he five consecutive playoff appearances, a playoff
(39:47):
win in each of those appearances, wins the super Bowl
in twenty twelve. Since the Super Bowl win in twenty twelve,
he's got four playoff wins total. He's got Lamar Jackson,
and he hasn't been able to get back to the
super Bowl. So all of these guys have flaws. Pete
Carroll has eight playoff victories since he won the Super Bowl.
(40:07):
Think about that. Since he won the Super Bowl. You
and I talk about Seattle a lot, how they're very
overlooked franchise, and I think this plays into that. Now.
I know the last five six years weren't as good,
but they were still competitive, still making the postseason, and
they were nine to eight when he got shown the
door in Seattle. How about that? Who's better?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Here's the other thing too, about Pete Carroll and our
buddy Teddy Johnson would remind US. Carrol was fired in
both New York and New England before he got it
going at USC, which then.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Brought him back to Seattle at USC. So there's a
part of me that just thinks, Okay, look at Seattle,
Pete Carroll, look at Ravens, John Harbaugh. I mean, both
of them. Man, it's tough one, isn't it. At Calton
it's a very very good one. I think Carol does
not get enough credit. I think that's my an.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
I'm gonna end up going with Harbaugh and I but
I mean that's picking niche right there, because there are
things I like about Carol, but I think it's gonna
sound weird. I think pekeets a little stubborn sometimes about
how he does things, which I know a lot of
great coaches do. I think that John Harbaugh is a
little bit more meliable. Like I remember, ironically, it's the
(41:26):
game in twenty nineteen out in Seattle against Carol's team
where it's fourth and something. It's kind of raining, kind
of miserable, and they were gonna kick a field goal and.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Lamar got mad.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Mars Storm starts to storm off the field, and Harball
looks at him and was like you want to go
for this to He's like bleep, yeah, and he grab
grabs him as he goes by. He goes, Okay, we're
going for this. Put him back out on the field.
Lamar Randall zone reed, ran in the end zone.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
They win it again.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I think that John Harbaugh's is a little bit more adaptable. Yeah,
And I think that's why I would give him a
little bit of the edge. You get a Super Bowl
from John Harbaugh, it goes way over the edge. But
I think that's the one thing I'll give him a
little bit more credit. Thing Pete can be a little stubborn.
I think John's a little.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Bit more adaptable with things He's adapted with He's adapted
with Lamar as his quarterback, who is not the.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Traditional pocket guy, right. I mean, Pete did that with
Russell Wilson. But I'm gonna give it to Harball just
just barely, just barely.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Everybody who coaches in the AFC in this era has
had to deal with Belichick and now Andy Reid in
Kansas City, so that's been tough. Harball has had to
go through the Patriots. It's kind of like what I
say about the Rockets having to go through Golden State.
You know, I mean really difficult, right, So that makes
it hurt. And now you've got Kansas City to deal with.
Now you're not as good as them. But it is
(42:50):
what it is, right, Irony doesn't mean you're bad. Irony
is for the Ravens, though the Chiefs only beat them
once in the playoffs when you're time. But I still
think when you're two years it was the bill, the
top seed status, stuff like that, Patriots, all that stuff.
All right, who's better? Sean Payton? O't boy, we're running
out of show. Sean Payton or Mike Tomlin. Sean Payton,
(43:13):
Sean Payton, hang on, let me just paint the picture here.
I know you're just winning the super Bowl. He's won
five playoff games, all in New Orleans. Since winning the
Super Bowl, he's had some losing seasons mixed in there
with That's right, three years that they went to the
Green Barer. Three straight losing seasons. Exactly. We know that
because it's just so easy for us. Tomlin's only won
(43:34):
three playoff games in the last what ten to twelve years? Yes,
so there's that. However, Tomlin goes to the playoffs with
Kenny Pickett. He goes to the playoffs with the exhumed
body of Russell Wilson, who Peyton could not get to
the playoffs with. But I know he was just getting
started in Denver at me on this and last year
(43:54):
Peyton coached up bow Nicks. I think they're very similar.
I think all these guys have a lot of similarity.
Very all want super Bowls a long time ago. They
all in some ways get more credit than they deserve.
In other ways, maybe we're not appreciating them enough.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I am not answering quickly because oh, it's definitive this
guy with that guy. I'm answering because dead radio is
the worst thing that can be in your ears as
a radio guy. You I hate dead radio. So this
is they're going hm hm huh. So I'm picking. But
what stands out As soon as you said that, the
first thing that stood out to me was Peyton took
over a Broncos team that was miserable. Yeah, and in
(44:29):
twenty twenty three he didn't get him into playoffs, but
they want some games.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
You look around and go, okay.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
The next year they take a rookie, he takes a
rookie quarterback. They get in the playoffs. Now they don't win,
but they get in the playoff.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Rookie quarterback that a lot of people did not have
a lot of fakes. I feel like Tomlin lately, it's
been underachievements. But he's good. He's good. Oh I would
I love me by Tomlin? Yeah? But why are they
not more successful? Instory? They have not been able to
replace the quarterback. It's kind of like what we talked
about with the old Dolphins. I agree. If they still
(45:00):
had mid career Roethlisberger there, they would have won at
least a playoff game or two in a few years,
I would think. Or one of these two appears when
they had a great team, they had won thirteen straight.
In twenty seventeen, they get knocked off by the Jags
in Pittsburgh. Yeah, but don't underestimate the Jags. Every ten years,
so Johnny, every ten years. All right, coming up, something
happened in broadcasting that is going to change broadcasting. We'll
(45:23):
tell you what it is next here. It affects the
NFL and the Texans and everybody. It's Texans Radio. We
are running out of show, so let's get to this.
For the first time, streaming viewership collectively has overtaken broadcast viewership.
It's done. It's here. We all knew it was coming,
but it has happened. The networks, So that's linear TV
(45:46):
or traditional channels, however you consume them, they are taking
a backseat to all of streaming collectively. Now streaming is
very fragmented, right, Johnny. Yeah, you got Netflix, you got Paramount,
Paramount and Peacock. They have so such a small slice
of the audience it would freak people out. Yeah, And
as far as growth, Netflix is down a little bit,
(46:07):
but it's still such a healthy part of the segment.
YouTube way up because YouTube is free and now people
on their flat screens are watching a whole ton of
stuff that they enjoy. But this affects the NFL because
in twenty twenty nine, after that season, they can opt
out of their current deals and go as much streaming
as they want to go, and people will back up
the Brinks truck for them. Netflix. It'll happen absolutely, And
(46:30):
I mean, I hate to say it this way, but
in four years there's gonna be a significant portion of
the watching audience that unfortunately perishes and you've got just
more younger people.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
How do younger people do things now. They don't mind
do it on their phone, they do it on their iPads.
They they're fine with streaming and finding it.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
That's how younger kids expect to find things nowadays. Well
I can find it, where can I stream it? My kid? So,
my nineteen year old watches the NBA in highlight form
as the games are happening. Oh, Dad, you see this
in the first quarter of the Rockets game, you know,
And it's probably in the third quarter already, but he's
not watching it, you know now, sometimes busy school, whatever.
(47:11):
But it applies to the NBA playoffs, you know, as
the Rockets got knocked out in the first round. Watching
the rest of the games, I tend but I've always
done this. I tend to jump into games with teams
that I don't have a dog in the fight. Games
like that, I tend to jump in seven eight minutes
to go. I want to see how they executes finish.
I don't need to see the first quarter of a
game I don't care about, but I do care when
(47:33):
it gets deep. That's the beauty of the NFL, though.
The first quarter is so meaningful. Somebody drives down the
field and punches it in for a touchdown. That means
a lot. Now later in the game, that might not
be the winning margin, of course, but it really that
tips the scale mightily, and now it needs to tip back. NBA,
somebody has a ten to fifteen point lead, even it
(47:53):
doesn't mean that much. Yeah. One of the things that
YouTube TV does a brilliant job of is you can
if you're recording that game, and this is for a
lot of college games.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I just have all college football games. If I want
to go with that game and I'm already two hours
in or whatever it might be, they show me.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Join live or watch the big play, watch the key play.
Amazon does that on Thursday nights right from the NFL.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So just I just watch the key plays and then
they take you from those key plays right to what's
going on live and you feel like you haven't really missing.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
I just hate the spinning circle of death when I'm streaming.
Everybody does. It's just one of those oh yeah, of life.
I mean, it's definitely something you're gonna have to deal with.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
But you just think about younger people and how they
consume product, and that is exactly how you do it.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
All Right, we have the general on the show tonight.
This will be in podcast form soon enough. Tomorrow we'll
check in with some Texans we got guests. Stay tuned
find out more. Have a great night, Thanks so much
for listening. Area forty five coming up next Go Texans.
Welcome Texans. Mark Vandermere and John Harris with you. The
show begins. It's a holiday program Juneteenth. A lot of
people have time off, a lot of people don't. So
we appreciate those who are working today to make life
great for everybody else and themselves too. Because I think
you're earning a nice check. I hope you are. I
hope it's time and a half or whatever. Holidays warrant.
(00:22):
Who knows I might have started something with some people
by saying that I'm not getting time and a half.
Wait a minute, Should I be all right? I'll just
start over. Welcome everybody, Okay. John McClain joins us tonight.
The General is with us after a week off. But
you were very much on General. So you made your trip,
and I want to hear about this first holiday show.
We have some time to get into this. You made
(00:44):
your trip to the Florida Keys to meet with Jimmy
Johnson regarding your documentary, How did it go? Tell us
about the experience. Good evening.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It couldn't have been better. Thank you for having me.
Mark Burn's a director, and I drove to the producers,
Rob Lanch and Scott Nethery flew and then I flew
back and Jimmy could not have been more accommodating. He
has a bar restaurant sports bar restaurant called the Big
Chill in Key Largo. He lives south of that And
(01:16):
when we first contacted him, and the reason we wanted
Jimmy was nineteen sixty in the semi finals of the
state for a playoffs port Arthur Jefferson went up against
Corpus Christy Miller. Miller beat him six to zero, and
Miller beat Wichita Falls the next week and won the
first integrated state championship in Texas high school history. And
(01:39):
the head coach, Pete Regas, who we interviewed, love him.
He told us Jimmy Johnson was the best player they
went up against and all they had to do game planning,
and they scored one touchdown on a reverse by Johnny Rowland,
who spent thirty five years in the NFL as a
running back and as a coach. So we thought we
talked to Jimmy, and we did. We talked to him
(02:00):
about that game. We talked to him about the times
when you had the black all black pv I L
and all White U I L. And Jimmy was great.
He said, you know when we used to play. I
had a big yard in our house and we used
to play. We had black kids, we had white kids,
we had Hispanic kids, and we would play and then
(02:21):
when it got dark, our parents would call us in
and then we'd go to our separate high schools, and
we just never thought about it, and looking back on it,
of course, he was very honest about you know, how
bad it was and what the black kids went through.
But he was terrific, and I know he had a
blast because he told us, he said, when this guy,
(02:43):
when this comes out, you guys let me know because
I want to help you promote it. And we said,
oh yeah, we'll be reaching out to you because he
got a lot of friends who could tweet it and
retweet it. So we just we had a blast and
it was funny. His sports bar there, one of the
women that's worked for him for a long time was
(03:03):
talking about the biggest crowds they get or when the
Panthers play, and of course Florida Panthers just won their
second consecutive Stanley Cup and on our career, we talked about, man,
it would have been fun to be there and watch
them celebrate that championship. But the thing about Jimmy is,
you know, you retired from Fox after last season. He'd
(03:24):
done it thirty one years and so now he doesn't
have to fly across country to LA every weekend. He
can watch in his house. He said, he's got three
big screen TVs. He can watch college all day, he
can watch the NFL all day. And he said, I
still love football. I love watching football. And he'll be
(03:45):
eighty two when teams report to trade. Company's in really
really good shape.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
General, what's the release date or do you have a
release date for the documentary? And way of asking this,
but as you continue to uncover more and more stories,
kind of where's the ending point when you guys have
kind of set for when this thing will be released.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We're hoping to have everything finished and ready to go
and hoping it will premiere at south By Southwest Film
Festival in Austin in March, that's the second biggest in
North America, and then get at other film festivals and
hopefully people will like it, want to distribute it, pay
us some money for distributing it. We're hoping since there's
(04:32):
so many members of the Pro Football of Fame who
played the pvi i L. The last three who are
alive and Joe Green, Kenny Houston who lives here at Kingwood,
and Thomas from Angleton. Joe's from Temple and we you know,
we're hoping because players from the pvi IL played with
every NFL team and maybe get teams to run a
(04:56):
version of it on their website, maybe a Football Live
for thirty. But we're really excited because we haven't found
anybody else that's doing that has done what we're doing.
Their books like the Definitive pv IL book, Michael Hurd
wrote Thursday Night Lights, and there's other books and articles,
(05:19):
but we haven't found a good documentary. Our last trip
is going to be Canton, Ohio. We're going to shoot
the bus and other things in the Hall of Fame
that we can find about the pv i L. We're
also road trip probably next month to Dallas to interview
Mike Singletary because Mike Singletary, Warren Boone, Eric Dickerson, Andre
(05:43):
Ware and those guys are great players who are telling
us they couldn't have done what they did without standing
on the shoulders of those players and coaches from the
pv I L. We haven't been turned down by anybody
in one trip. We're really looking forward to going out
(06:05):
to Brady in West Texas, where Santana Dodson and his dad,
Alphonse Dodson have a winery. And Alphonse played for the
Raiders with Eldridge Dickey, who played at Booker T Washington
here then Tennessee State, and he was the greatest PVL
quarterback who went on to the Raiders first black quarterback
(06:26):
drafted in the first round in nineteen sixty eight. But
Al Davis somehow moved to wide receiver and he passed
around for four years and had got on hard times
and died in two thousand. But the stories we've been
told about about him have been pretty unbelievable. In Warren
Moone told us he wouldn't be playing quarterback if not
(06:47):
for Elders Dickey, and I said, what are you talking about.
He grew up LA he didn't have to play in
an all black high school leagues and NOE. But I
knew who he was, and I used to when he
went to Tennessee State and he threw the ball like crazy,
like I wanted to do when I got older. He
was my inspiration and every time somebody wanted to move me,
I thought about Eldridge Dicky and I wouldn't have played
(07:11):
quarterback without him. So it's pretty powerful. Some of it
makes you sick to your stomach when you see what
they experienced as far as racism, but we have yet
to find one person who's bitter about what they experienced.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Wow. Can't wait to see this next spring. Looking forward
to it. John McLean joining us and the visit with
Jimmy Johnson brings up this question. Is Jimmy Johnson properly rated?
So we have overrated, underrated, properly rated? As an NFL
head coach? He won two Super Bowls. He kind of
probably deserves some credit for the third. I mean, how
does Barry Switzer have a Super Bowl championship ring and
(07:48):
Marv Levy and Bud Grant do not? But somehow that
happens in life. But tell me about Jimmy Johnson, your
thoughts of Jimmy Johnson as a coach. How do you
rate him?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I'll tell you a story. Wade Phill had a roast
and a toast in Port Arthur about five or six
years ago, and I was honored to be one of
the speakers. JJ White was another one. His son West
is now the offensive coordinator for the Vikings. And Jimmy
(08:18):
had known Wade forever and I was and I Jimmy
likes to drink Heineken, makes no has no reservations about.
He drinks it over ice. So we were in the
hotel talking ball. And then when we were at the table,
I told him he's gonna get in the Hall of Fame.
And he told me what And he said he didn't
(08:39):
coach long enough and the way it ended Miami, and
I said, people don't even remember you coached the Dolphins.
And so I always believe that one of the reasons
his career was short. But he had total control of
his roster, and he made a lot of trades, and
(08:59):
he had a good scouting department, and so what he did,
the players he drafted he traded for. All of them
were home runs, but a lot of them were like
trading his backup quarterback Steve Wallsh to the Saints for first,
second and third round picks. You know, we talked about
rschal Walker being a bad trade. That was a pretty
(09:21):
bad one in itself.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And so I told him, because of the decisions he
made in personnel, that putting it head of a lot
of other coaches. And I'm so glad he got in
because I know he believe he earned it.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
John McLean joining us, Hey, one question about Jimmy Johnson
making trades, draft picks, et cetera. We talk about the
Jimmy Johnson draft trade chart. So if Jerry was the
GM and Jerry was so instrumental, did Jimmy really run everything?
How instrumental was Jerry Jones in the construction of the
Dallas Cowboys upon the hiring of Jimmy fo the Landry era.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, the way that worked out, Jimmy had in his
contract he had vials say on all personnel. And he
told his story when we put him into Texas Sports
Hall of Fame that when they started winning after the
first one in fifteen season, then seven and nine, then
they started winning big and his whole plan was to
be good by the third year, was Jerry is that
(10:25):
practice would stay up doing all deals. And then Jerry
started coming down. He said, I knew we were in trouble.
This was at the Hall of Fame when Jerry told
me he wanted to get a job involved in personnel,
and I think if Jerry and Jimmy, I'm guessing more
than once had to remind him to check the contract.
And I'm guessing if Jerry had still been satisfied with
(10:51):
doing those old deals and stuff and left Jimmy coaching
no time, he's super bowls they could have won even
though the salary cap and free agency came in in
ninety three. But they had their Big three and they
had a way of They did a great job coaching.
I mean, Barry Switzer is the first to tell you, you know,
(11:11):
he took Jimmy's players and he won a super Bowl
with them. He always gave Jimmy credit for that, so
I he could I don't know how long you would
have coached. I'm guessing that if he and Jerry had
not clashed and he would have, you know, he might
have coached into double digits.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I always gave him credit for what he did with
the Dolphins too. He put together a really good defense
and Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Patrick Sartan Senior, all those
Sam Madison, all those guys were Jimmy Johnson guys. They
built a hell of a team. They just couldn't replace
the quarterback, which is difficult to do, but they couldn't
get that part of it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
You don't say finding your quarterback is very difficult in
this league.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
But they went to the playoffs all the time. They
just couldn't get over the hump. Yeah, exactly, You're right.
He did a good job Miami, which made me think
about this. As we were talking about this last night,
we were watching a show on Netflix. I won't tell
you what the show is, but it was about the
Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and at one point, somebody says Jerry
Jones or another asked a trivia question or a question
(12:15):
about what's the title for Jerry Jones, and one of
them says CEO and founder, And I was like, oh, no,
not the founder. And then when they say the real
answer and it includes general manager, my wife looks over
at me and goes, Jerry's the general manager, and I
was like, it's complicated, babe, Like it's complicated. I don't
(12:37):
really want to get in to that one.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Speaking of quarterbacks general I don't know that we've talked
about this. I can't remember because you may have been
on a trip when this actually finally happened. But Aaron
Rodgers has finally gotten himself into an NFL building, signing
with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Does it make a ripple because
it's Aaron Rodgers. Do you think it makes the Steelers
(13:00):
that much better with him taking over? We know how
well with the Jets didn't go well, Brett Farm didn't
go well in the year with the Jets, but then
the next year with the Vikis, they're really really good
and he was really good. Do you think Rogers can
come resurrect the final part of his career in Pittsburgh?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Well, they won ten games last year, didn't they. I
don't see them in that division winning more than ten games. Now.
Usually when you have major surgery, you guys know this.
It's the second year back when you're you find out
if you're all the way back mentally and physically. And
at the end of the year he played a lot
better than he did early. So I think Rogers is
(13:38):
going to play well. But I still don't see them
winning eleven games, or they might sneak in with a
wild card birth if they win ten, I think the
FC is going to be very balanced, and I think
he'll make He'll make them a better offense. Obviously, Now
whether they'll be better on defense, or with Nazierra's gone,
(14:01):
if the running game would be as good. Yes, they
traded for DK Metcalf, but he's going to get doubled
all over the field. And had they kept George Pickins
and understand why they didn't because he was a royal
paint in the bud, but either he or Metcalf wasn't
going to get doubles. So I think they can win
ten games with Rogers, just like they did last year.
(14:23):
But I do not see them being a Super Bowl
contender general.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
The Texans played the entire AFC West and we're all
celebrating what happened to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl,
except for Kansas City fans, of course. But they won
fifteen games in the regular season. We know they won
a lot of close games, but they won them fifteen
to two. My goodness. Who's the bigger threat to them
in that division? The Chargers or the Broncos. The Raiders
finished last. I think they'll be better. I've said that before,
(14:50):
but Broncos Chargers bigger threat to the Chiefs, which one.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You would have to say the Broncos because they had
a great defense led to the league in sacks. They
did a this job of coaching that defense, and Bo
Nicks has got to be better in his second season,
and he was really good in the first. And they've
tried to add some weapons and improve the offensive line.
(15:14):
So I would say them, you know, it's hard for
me to save the Chargers because last time I saw
the Chargers they were getting annihilated by the Texans at
NRG Stadium. So I'm going to say Denver with the
Chargers next. And the thing about the Chiefs, over the
last thirty years, only one Super Bowl loser's gone back,
(15:35):
and that was the Patriots. So the odds are the
Chiefs are not going back to the Super Bowl, which
to me means it be a Lamar Jackson Josh Allen
competition to go to the Super Bowl and see which
one went first. But I don't see Kansas City would
be a threat, of course, but look at what happened
to the forty nine Ers last year. It's just a
(15:58):
litany of teams for whatever reason. When they lose the
Super Bowl, they should be the hungriest team in sports,
but they're not. They have a Super Bowl losing hangover,
and it'd be nice to see that happen to the
Chiefs because the Texans of course have to play them again.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I think what's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
We talked about this for a while, and part of
it is because of the quarterbacks in the AFC, But
we talk about what a gauntlet the AFC is, right,
Joe Burrow, Mahomes Lamar Josh. And yet since twenty nineteen,
the only team other than the Chiefs that's gotten to
a Super Bowl one time is the Bengals.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And yet we talk about how great the AFC is.
You think of the AFC.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Was that good that somebody would knock off the damn Chiefs?
And I don't know, maybe it starts this year, but
it's like, oh, the AFC is a gauntlet. O. Chiefs
are the only one that a has won a Super
Bowl and be the Bengals the only other team that's
gotten there one time. I don't know, It's just kind
of fascinating way think about it. But you mentioned Justin
Herbert general and it's list season, so a lot of
(17:05):
people have been put out lists, and it's mind blowing
in some sense to see Justin Herbert ranked so high,
especially how he finished the season in the playoffs for
the second consecutive playoff game for him. As Mark said
the other day, he had one good half and he said,
three lousy halves of playoff football. And yet he's consistently
(17:25):
ranked as number five, number six, number seven when you
start ranking the quarterbacks. So I'll ask you and Mark
the same question. You got to go win one game,
the biggest game you're playing. Are you taking Justin Herbert
or a healthy Dak Prescott?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh, I'm taking Justin just Well, boy, that's a tough one,
and I'm proud of that one has won a lot
of big regular season games. And Herbert, of course, he
was in the playoffs. But you know, I think we've
seen him two times against the Tech since at NRG
Stadium and it wasn't his fault, but the Texans waylaid
(18:05):
them both times. And so I'm going with Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Okay. I that's a tough one, Shoe, Yeah, it is tough.
And that's a really difficult one. Great question. I can
I pick neither guy, I'm Cooper Rush, Cooper Rush, No,
you can't take Taylor Heineke. You got to pick one
to win one game, biggest game of the year. Dak Prescott, healthy,
(18:30):
I think I've taken Dak Herbert. I think Dax made
enough mistakes in the postseason to understand what to avoid.
Whether he avoids those things remains to be seen. They're
late games, what playoff? Was it? The late game situation
where they didn't spot the ball properly and couldn't get
the ball snapped.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That was the forty nine ers, wasn't.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It against the Yeah, that in a regular season situation
is inexcusable, and it would dominate talk for a week,
but you end your season on that. Hopefully for him
they learned from it. For us, I hope they never
learned from it, of course, general a lot of talk
about the Texans building a practice facility. Stories in the Chronicle,
(19:13):
Mike Toman, the president of the Texans, giving some information
and I guess it's anybody's guess where it's really ultimately
going to be. But you tell me this because this
one was thrown at me when I was out and about, Hey,
what did the Oilers do? Where did they practice? We
all know they played in the Astrodome. Where did the
Oilers practice? And I know this is ancient history really
(19:35):
because when the Texans emerged, they built everything within the
stadium within the grounds of NRG Park. Hey see, I
got it all figured out. We're gonna have white locker
year round. But anyway, what did the oilers do when
they existed back in the day.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Let me say Charlie casually did not want to practice
at the stadium because he said he didn't want free
agents coming in their march and smelling horse.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
But as Bob to, if we pay them, they'll come,
And so they had it, had it there for convenience purposes.
And then a couple of years before Bob died, he
and Cow were going around looking for a spot and
they were going I think the horse track, the dog track.
Different counties wanted them. And I pointed out, began to
(20:19):
buy a helicopter because it doesn't take you a long
time to fight traffic to get out to where your
new facility is going to be, wherever it is. And
of course they got it worked out. I'd always hope
that they could do build one over there on that
third field, the fathers from Kirby. But the way the
oilers had it when I started covering them, they had
(20:40):
this little dump on the corner of Braiswood and Fenning
and I think there's still an oil Derek over there.
It's a parking lot. And they had like a one
bench press, a few dumbbells and that was it. And
they practiced and they ran and they sweated, and then
in nineteen eighty two they moved into what they thought
(21:03):
was the taj Mahal over on Holly Hall, close to
the Dome. And if you saw it now it belongs
to some politician uses it as an office. But if
you saw it, you'd go, my god, the oiler's practice there.
There was a dump but and it was compared to
when all the others started to get nicer ones. So
(21:25):
they were close and convenient, but boy, those facilities were
not very good, and Bud Adams wanted him to be
close to where he lived in River Oaks, even though
he only came to practice maybe once a year.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Hey, you said, we're still once a year. That's another
one I want to get into. Holy are you serious?
Only once a year.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
No, he didn't come to practice. He would come to
training camp once a year for this State of the Oilers.
One time he came and he was so proud of
the way he looked. He was wearing lime green shorts
came down to his knees, black socks had pulled up
to his knees, and he was wearing a pith helmet
(22:08):
with a fan in it. That's tons of writing that
he looked like a bad extra from a White five. Oh,
and he thought he looked great, and so he came
out and he addressed the players as he did every year.
But we never saw Bud at practice at all.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Pith helmet with a fan in it sounds like a
good hack, I think, Johnny, Yeah, this sounds like a
very good hack. Could work for me.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Hey, General, yesterday, earlier in the day, and I said yesterday,
I mean wednesday, we saw news that a Jacksonville real
estate developer was buying apparently the Tampa Bay Rays one
point seven billion. I thought, okay, it's it's a little low,
I think, but way low happened later in the Well,
that's where I'm getting to. Then, the Lakers are sold
(22:55):
for ten billion, ten billion dollars to Dodgers majority owner
Mark Walter. What do you think that does to NFL franchises?
The last one that was sold was Commanders to Josh Harris,
I think was six billion. What do you think that
does just the Lakers for ten billion being sold, what
(23:16):
do you think that does the NFL franchise.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Values on First John on Jacksonville in the Rays, they
don't have a stadium. So that's why that seemed low.
That guy's gonna have to come up find a stadium,
whether it's in Tampa or Saint Pete, whether the politicians
approve it, or he's gonna have to build it. But
he didn't have a home. And I think this about
the Lakers. The Cowboys are the most valuable franchise in
(23:40):
professional sports according to Forbes, and that includes all the
big soccer teams in Europe. So at the Lakers and
Jeannie Bust and her family retained seventeen percent, and I
believe that Walter owned twenty one percent as it was.
And so can you imagine what Jerry would get for
(24:03):
the Cowboys right now? Because the Knicks are valued higher
by Forbes than the Lakers. And I don't know James
Dolan is ever going to sell or leave it to
his family. And it's the NFL has a rule no
foreign ownership, NBA and Baseball does not, So at some point,
(24:23):
you know, say the saudis called up an owner and
said we'll give you fifty billion for your franchise. All
of a sudden, the NFL is going to be rewriting
that by law so you can get foreign investment, because
there's no end to where it goes. I think everybody
is shocked by the ten billion figure, and every NFL
owner has got to be rubbing his hands together and
(24:46):
lee over that deal.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
For the Lakers, why did the previous owners of the
race call up the Saudis and say, hey, you know what,
all these live golfers, nobody cares get a Major League
Baseball franchise. All you have to do is park a
couple of billions here for a stadium and you're good
to go.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
How that would have been a very smart thing to
do if they wanted a franchise in Tampa or Saint Pete.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, and there's no other market. Obviously, Vegas will have
the A's. I don't think you can go anywhere else.
You can't do baseball in San Antonio, right, I mean,
that's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
They're talking about the next the Nashville and nash Charlotte, Yes,
would be the next two franchises, and they're prepared. They
have a baseball group in Nashville for the last three
years to have everything ready to go for when baseball expans.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh, I can't wait to see how all this stuff
shakes out. And I also can't wait to see where
the practice facility is going to be. News should come
out soon, well allegedly soon. Yeah, this will be really interesting,
really interesting to see how the Texans handle this one,
how it's handled with the Texans and their partners, and
what ultimately transpires. All right, general, we're in the middle
(25:56):
of the desert, and we asked Jonathan this, We asked
john this. I answer the question, how you feeling? How
you feeling about the season? We're done with many camp.
It's in the rear view mirror. We got a long
way to go till training camp. But it's going to
happen before you know it. And when everyone's asking you
how are you feeling about the Texans, you answer the question.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Go People ask me that every day and I say,
I can't wait for training camp. I wish it was tomorrow.
And they have a super Bowl caliber defense, and until
they figure out the offensive line, they won't have a
super Bowl caliber offense. I've got a lot of confidence
in the wide receivers. I think they should run away
(26:38):
with the AFC South again. Don't think anybody's even close
to them. I think they'll hope that they I don't
think they'll get a bye, but they'll win a first
round game. And the thing I want to see, and
I know you guys do too, is for the first
time since the franchise was born, get beyond the divisional
(26:58):
round of the playoffs, hopefully hosting an AFC championship game here.
But I don't think the Texans are up there with
Baltimore and Buffalo and Kansas City yet. It may take
another off season, but there's certainly good enough to run
away with AFC South. And if you do that in
the offensive line is even just mediocre, it'll be such
(27:21):
an improvement over last season.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Great stuff general, as always, thanks so much for being
with us.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Thank you guys very much for having me on this
lovely Thursday night.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
All right, coming up, we'll do a who's Better with coaches.
Johnny is going to be on the spot, so we'll
find out what he has to say about the questions
I throw at him, and you can play along at home.
It's Texans Radio. Great to have you along for the
ride here Texans Radio. Mark Vandermere and John Harris with
you as we count down the days to training camp. There,
(27:52):
I am, do we get Johnny? Yeah, I told you
yesterday I said, don't do that, but I'm doing it
now because we're over a month. But it's gonna dial
down pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Hey, we saw the news yesterday that both rookies and
vet's going to report on July twenty second. Now, I
don't know what that means as far as dates yet.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Of training camp, but if they're reporting on a twenty second,
if that's official. Yeah, yeah, the NFL reported that yesterday.
I think you practiced the day after your report to
start practicing. Now practice as we saw last year, these
days it's different. It's an abbreviated ramp up practice the
first two to three days, and then you get the
(28:32):
real heavy stuff. So I think they'll stick their feet
in the water, their toes, maybe more than the toe,
the feet up to the ankle, maybe the knees, and
then they'll get it going in pads four or five
days in right, that's what they've done the last couple
of years.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Like everybody, Oh, you got to have I think the
rule is three day you have to have three days.
But I think I remember correctly. The last couple of years,
we think pads are coming on day four.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
They don't. Yeah, it's day five.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
So they go a full four days in out of
pads and then put the pads on day five, if
I remember correctly. So we'll see, we'll see what the
what the case is, just got to get this get
this team ready and stay healthy. We just there's a
document that our preseason TV crew has got going around
Dave Keeney, our producer, with Kevin and d and myself
(29:24):
and then Shelby Coppage and it's like, hey, put in
all the storylines, and so David fed it with a
bunch of storylines.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
So I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
All of them like, oh man, it's getting me excited,
so excited about the season, so excited about the preseason
games and just seeing these guys and pads, seeing how
the offensive line comes together, how it gels. I think
one of the biggest pieces Mark that I have been
really excited about just hearing a lot guys and six
been playing the sound of Titus Howard talking about the
(29:51):
offensive line and moving over to guard and you know,
what I said at the end of last year. I
think I think he played really well at guard, Like
I think he can be a very good guard. But
I think to be able to do that, I think
you had he has to make the step of accepting
that that role, and it feels like he's more accepting
of it now than ever before.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
And I think if that is one thing, because.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
We got tackle bodies for days seemingly now obviously, get
a guy hurt here and a guy tweaks a hamstring there,
and all of a sudden, Okay, that depth can go
up and smoke it a little bit, but you feel
like you got a lot of tackle bodies, and those
the tackle positions will end up getting filled and I
think ably filled.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
But if you can just lock in one of those
guard spots right now, Titus at right guard, seemingly, if
you could just lock in that right guard spot and
just go, yeah, we know that's going to be a
good spot for us because Titus is there and Titus
is going to play well. Just think about how that
changes everything on the offensive line.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah, knowing that's going to happen at that guard spot
where you struggled.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
The last few years, Well, you know he's gonna play
one of them, Ronald Yeah. Yeah, and they've got enough
guys to fill in. I hate to use that term,
but to play tackle. Blake Fisher, right, he can play
right tackle, Cam Robinson Earth. We got a lot of
reps and the OTA sessions. Now these are without pads, obviously,
but good to see a rookie out there getting a
lot of business in the OTA time of year with
(31:15):
Mini camp. All right, let's do this who's Better Coaches version?
Oh boy, we're not going to mention every coach in
NFL history. It's funny because I stumbled on this list
and this could really sidetrack us. But oh no, I won't.
I won't spend too much time. ESPN ranks the top
twenty coaches of all time, and it's nothing to do
with in the NFL. Yes, with the victory lists that
(31:37):
I don't include college on these lists. I know college
coaches are great. There's so many great college coaches. However,
when you can go out and just get guys, yeah
I need a left tackle, get me three of them,
yeah yeah, get me four quarterbacks. I know it's different
now with nil it's a lot harder than it was. Sure,
but when you can go do that, when you choose,
(31:58):
it's a different landscape. It's almost a different sport that way,
when you can just go get players to fortify your
roster as opposed to the NFL. Well, you can get
guys too in free agency, but your limited salary cap.
You all know how it works. I don't have to
explain this to you. Vince Lombardi's their number one, Bill
Walsh number two, Don Shula number three. So this list
is NFL coaches, NFL coaches. Okay, yeah, oh we can
(32:22):
so Vince won, Vince one, which is great, all right,
Good for Vince Lombard. Bill Walsh because he was such
a patriarch of the offensive side of the football, that
innovation and then taking that and winning with it. He
wrote that book, the book that all the coaches read,
The coach. Yeah, they all love it. Paul Brown was six,
(32:42):
but who'd you say was three? Don Schula, he's the
whole time winner. Okay, yeah. Belichick Belichick seven, Yeah, I know, Okay,
I bet I understand, I bet I can write that paragraph.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
We put Bill Belichick at number seven because we feel
like his success was predicated on Tom Brady.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
More so than maybe Belichick as a coach. I bet
that's what it is. Yeah, probably because before him he
has the three that I mentioned. Then George hallis Chuck Nole.
I don't put Chuck Nolle in front of Bill Belichick,
no way, know how, no day of the week. All
these guys are excellent. Okay, so nobody sucks, but Belichick
deserves to be in front of Chuck Noll. Paul Brown,
(33:23):
I get it because he won championships in that other
league before joining the NFL. He was great in the NFL.
He was he was an offensive patriarch. He was the
Bill Walsh of the forties and fifties. Yeah, Bill Walsh
coached under him and got a lot of stuff for him.
So I might put Paul Brown higher. I'm not go Lombardi,
Paul Brown, Bill Walsh. Yeah, maybe I think Paul Brown.
(33:43):
You know he'd begat Yeah, Bill Walsh, Yes, So maybe
he put him in front. Landry is eighth on this list.
Joe Gibbs ninth. Joe Gibbs is an underrated underrated completely
on these lists, my god, completely under They go back
to Curly Lambeau. I can't. Yeah, it's such a different era.
He's great founded the Green Bay Packers, coach them, he
(34:05):
and George Hallis. It's like they deserve their own category. Yeah,
it's tough to put them in there.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I mean modern modern football relatively speaking, and those eras
that they were coaching in.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I mean, obviously the.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Forward pass was still i would say in its infantile stages,
but it still was in its infantile stages.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Really, But to me on that, on that list, I
feel like.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Asking the question the right way of asking this, what
did you bring from an innovation standpoint to the game.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
How did you change the game? How did you change
the game?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
And I think about Joe Gibbs and Joe Gibbs with
the artists formerly noticed the Redskins. He won super Bowls
with three different quarterbacks, first of all art styles. Yeah,
like Chuck Nol went everyone with the with Terry Bradshaw,
you have the same team, right, But Chuck Chuck Noll
also incorporated and obviously had defensive coordinators that ran a
different type of defensive system that his guys were were
(35:07):
great with. But Paul Brown basically invented watching film. He
invented the coach comp system in a helmet, you know,
he won with with Jim Brown, and then Jim retires
and they Graham Otto Graham. He wins with automatic auto.
He has, you know, his guards, Chuck don Shula, I
(35:29):
think being one of them running plays in and out
of the huddle. Maybe Chuck Nole running plays in and
out of the huddle. Joe Gibbs when he's with the Redskins,
he invents the one back offense because he couldn't block
Lawrence Taylor. Now, sometimes some of these innovations are born
out of we got to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, that's necessity. Necessity is the mother of invention, right,
and so, but he still he came up with the
one back offense. Yeah, good for him. And he also
coached under Don Coriel, who was an offensive innovator. Right,
So there's some stuff there. Now. Parcels is eleventh on
this list. I'll read you the rest of the names.
You tell me if any one of these guys deserves
to be ahead of Parcels. Parcells, who won two Super
(36:08):
Bowls with the Giants, turned around multiple franchises. I give
him a lot of credit for turning around the Patriots,
the Jets, Jets, the Cowboys. I mean, he really brought
each of those three from the dull drums, from the
abyss to the postseason. All right, John Madden, I think
Parcells is in front of him. Yes, Chrs. Johnson is
(36:29):
a tough one. I mean, he built the new Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
I think what you said about Parcels, though, is the
fact that Parcells did it in a number of different locations.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Now we talked about we talked about Jimmy Johnson and Jimmy.
Jimmy did a decent job with Miami. But I mean,
Jimmy built that thing.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
In Dallas, but you could say Parcels built the thing
in New York.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
He was almost fired and Cardinals with two different quarterback,
which you're right, you kind of get a plus for that.
And you know, again, everybody's put Jimmy in front of Madden. Okay,
you'd put Jimmy. Put Jimmy in front of Masters. One
super Bowl, Tom Coughlin, I'm not putting in front of Parcels. No,
He's got two Super Bowl wins, he built the Jags.
(37:17):
Two AFC Championship Game appearance is very nice.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
I'm glad to have him ranked on this because I
think Coughlin is he goes to that underrated stage. Joe
Gibbs too left off a lot of times, because when
you think about Tom Kauflin, it's the first thing you're
thinking about. Fifteen minutes early is not on time?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Is on time? On time is fifteen minutes late time?
You know. So you think about those kind of things
with Coaughlin and you forget. Damn he had two runs
to a Super Bowl with the Giants after almost nearly
getting fired in two thousand and seven. They turned that
thing around. He wins two super Bowls with that organization,
so I think it's awful for good.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
And then what he did with the Jaguars, you know,
building that from scratch essentially. So I'm glad Coughlin's mentioned that,
But I can't put in front of parcels.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
But Grant Hankstram, he might deserve to be higher on
this list. Marv Levy Grant Levy each lost four Super Bowls,
but they got there. They're awesome. Sid Gilman, Sid Gilman
who coached the Oilers for a bit, Yeah, coach the
Chargers back in the day.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
That's more the AFL kind of innovation, like bringing the
passing game in vogue, you know at Lance allwork.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
John Haden was a quarterback. They were doing Dog Coriel
like things out in San Diego with that group before
Coriel really made it famous. Yeah, this list does not
include anybody who's active. Let me check. So I guess
these are inactive guys. You know. I think that's their angle,
because who could you include. I mean, obviously Belichick is
(38:43):
now inactive. As far as the NFL goes, Mike Shanahan's
on the list. Wow. Oh, two super Bowl wins went
to three others, very different teams, same quarterback. Tony Dungee
wins one super Bowl doesn't even go to the other
because that was Jim Caldwell with the Colts. He built
the Bucks out of nothing. I mean, John McKay did
nice things with them, but then they submerge and he
(39:04):
brings them back. So that's good. He's the twentieth guy
in the list. Anyway, that's their top twenty list. But
I want to go to some current guys, Johnny, and
we're gonna settle this once and for all. Who's better Boo,
Pete Carroll or John Harbaugh? Who's better? Pete Carroll? Now,
hear me out, hear me out, can make a case
(39:26):
for both. John Harball has had Lamar Jackson and he's
had the top seed twice yep, and he's got one
playoff win combined. The both times he's had the top
seed with Lamar Jackson, he got off to a great start.
Joe Flackow and he five consecutive playoff appearances, a playoff
(39:47):
win in each of those appearances, wins the super Bowl
in twenty twelve. Since the Super Bowl win in twenty twelve,
he's got four playoff wins total. He's got Lamar Jackson,
and he hasn't been able to get back to the
super Bowl. So all of these guys have flaws. Pete
Carroll has eight playoff victories since he won the Super Bowl.
(40:07):
Think about that. Since he won the Super Bowl. You
and I talk about Seattle a lot, how they're very
overlooked franchise, and I think this plays into that. Now.
I know the last five six years weren't as good,
but they were still competitive, still making the postseason, and
they were nine to eight when he got shown the
door in Seattle. How about that? Who's better?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Here's the other thing too, about Pete Carroll and our
buddy Teddy Johnson would remind US. Carrol was fired in
both New York and New England before he got it
going at USC, which then.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Brought him back to Seattle at USC. So there's a
part of me that just thinks, Okay, look at Seattle,
Pete Carroll, look at Ravens, John Harbaugh. I mean, both
of them. Man, it's tough one, isn't it. At Calton
it's a very very good one. I think Carol does
not get enough credit. I think that's my an.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
I'm gonna end up going with Harbaugh and I but
I mean that's picking niche right there, because there are
things I like about Carol, but I think it's gonna
sound weird. I think pekeets a little stubborn sometimes about
how he does things, which I know a lot of
great coaches do. I think that John Harbaugh is a
little bit more meliable. Like I remember, ironically, it's the
(41:26):
game in twenty nineteen out in Seattle against Carol's team
where it's fourth and something. It's kind of raining, kind
of miserable, and they were gonna kick a field goal and.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Lamar got mad.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Mars Storm starts to storm off the field, and Harball
looks at him and was like you want to go
for this to He's like bleep, yeah, and he grab
grabs him as he goes by. He goes, Okay, we're
going for this. Put him back out on the field.
Lamar Randall zone reed, ran in the end zone.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
They win it again.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I think that John Harbaugh's is a little bit more adaptable. Yeah,
And I think that's why I would give him a
little bit of the edge. You get a Super Bowl
from John Harbaugh, it goes way over the edge. But
I think that's the one thing I'll give him a
little bit more credit. Thing Pete can be a little stubborn.
I think John's a little.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Bit more adaptable with things He's adapted with He's adapted
with Lamar as his quarterback, who is not the.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Traditional pocket guy, right. I mean, Pete did that with
Russell Wilson. But I'm gonna give it to Harball just
just barely, just barely.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Everybody who coaches in the AFC in this era has
had to deal with Belichick and now Andy Reid in
Kansas City, so that's been tough. Harball has had to
go through the Patriots. It's kind of like what I
say about the Rockets having to go through Golden State.
You know, I mean really difficult, right, So that makes
it hurt. And now you've got Kansas City to deal with.
Now you're not as good as them. But it is
(42:50):
what it is, right, Irony doesn't mean you're bad. Irony
is for the Ravens, though the Chiefs only beat them
once in the playoffs when you're time. But I still
think when you're two years it was the bill, the
top seed status, stuff like that, Patriots, all that stuff.
All right, who's better? Sean Payton? O't boy, we're running
out of show. Sean Payton or Mike Tomlin. Sean Payton,
(43:13):
Sean Payton, hang on, let me just paint the picture here.
I know you're just winning the super Bowl. He's won
five playoff games, all in New Orleans. Since winning the
Super Bowl, he's had some losing seasons mixed in there
with That's right, three years that they went to the
Green Barer. Three straight losing seasons. Exactly. We know that
because it's just so easy for us. Tomlin's only won
(43:34):
three playoff games in the last what ten to twelve years? Yes,
so there's that. However, Tomlin goes to the playoffs with
Kenny Pickett. He goes to the playoffs with the exhumed
body of Russell Wilson, who Peyton could not get to
the playoffs with. But I know he was just getting
started in Denver at me on this and last year
(43:54):
Peyton coached up bow Nicks. I think they're very similar.
I think all these guys have a lot of similarity.
Very all want super Bowls a long time ago. They
all in some ways get more credit than they deserve.
In other ways, maybe we're not appreciating them enough.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I am not answering quickly because oh, it's definitive this
guy with that guy. I'm answering because dead radio is
the worst thing that can be in your ears as
a radio guy. You I hate dead radio. So this
is they're going hm hm huh. So I'm picking. But
what stands out As soon as you said that, the
first thing that stood out to me was Peyton took
over a Broncos team that was miserable. Yeah, and in
(44:29):
twenty twenty three he didn't get him into playoffs, but
they want some games.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
You look around and go, okay.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
The next year they take a rookie, he takes a
rookie quarterback. They get in the playoffs. Now they don't win,
but they get in the playoff.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Rookie quarterback that a lot of people did not have
a lot of fakes. I feel like Tomlin lately, it's
been underachievements. But he's good. He's good. Oh I would
I love me by Tomlin? Yeah? But why are they
not more successful? Instory? They have not been able to
replace the quarterback. It's kind of like what we talked
about with the old Dolphins. I agree. If they still
(45:00):
had mid career Roethlisberger there, they would have won at
least a playoff game or two in a few years,
I would think. Or one of these two appears when
they had a great team, they had won thirteen straight.
In twenty seventeen, they get knocked off by the Jags
in Pittsburgh. Yeah, but don't underestimate the Jags. Every ten years,
so Johnny, every ten years. All right, coming up, something
happened in broadcasting that is going to change broadcasting. We'll
(45:23):
tell you what it is next here. It affects the
NFL and the Texans and everybody. It's Texans Radio. We
are running out of show, so let's get to this.
For the first time, streaming viewership collectively has overtaken broadcast viewership.
It's done. It's here. We all knew it was coming,
but it has happened. The networks, So that's linear TV
(45:46):
or traditional channels, however you consume them, they are taking
a backseat to all of streaming collectively. Now streaming is
very fragmented, right, Johnny. Yeah, you got Netflix, you got Paramount,
Paramount and Peacock. They have so such a small slice
of the audience it would freak people out. Yeah, And
as far as growth, Netflix is down a little bit,
(46:07):
but it's still such a healthy part of the segment.
YouTube way up because YouTube is free and now people
on their flat screens are watching a whole ton of
stuff that they enjoy. But this affects the NFL because
in twenty twenty nine, after that season, they can opt
out of their current deals and go as much streaming
as they want to go, and people will back up
the Brinks truck for them. Netflix. It'll happen absolutely, And
(46:30):
I mean, I hate to say it this way, but
in four years there's gonna be a significant portion of
the watching audience that unfortunately perishes and you've got just
more younger people.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
How do younger people do things now. They don't mind
do it on their phone, they do it on their iPads.
They they're fine with streaming and finding it.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
That's how younger kids expect to find things nowadays. Well
I can find it, where can I stream it? My kid? So,
my nineteen year old watches the NBA in highlight form
as the games are happening. Oh, Dad, you see this
in the first quarter of the Rockets game, you know,
And it's probably in the third quarter already, but he's
not watching it, you know now, sometimes busy school, whatever.
(47:11):
But it applies to the NBA playoffs, you know, as
the Rockets got knocked out in the first round. Watching
the rest of the games, I tend but I've always
done this. I tend to jump into games with teams
that I don't have a dog in the fight. Games
like that, I tend to jump in seven eight minutes
to go. I want to see how they executes finish.
I don't need to see the first quarter of a
game I don't care about, but I do care when
(47:33):
it gets deep. That's the beauty of the NFL, though.
The first quarter is so meaningful. Somebody drives down the
field and punches it in for a touchdown. That means
a lot. Now later in the game, that might not
be the winning margin, of course, but it really that
tips the scale mightily, and now it needs to tip back. NBA,
somebody has a ten to fifteen point lead, even it
(47:53):
doesn't mean that much. Yeah. One of the things that
YouTube TV does a brilliant job of is you can
if you're recording that game, and this is for a
lot of college games.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I just have all college football games. If I want
to go with that game and I'm already two hours
in or whatever it might be, they show me.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Join live or watch the big play, watch the key play.
Amazon does that on Thursday nights right from the NFL.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
So just I just watch the key plays and then
they take you from those key plays right to what's
going on live and you feel like you haven't really missing.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
I just hate the spinning circle of death when I'm streaming.
Everybody does. It's just one of those oh yeah, of life.
I mean, it's definitely something you're gonna have to deal with.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
But you just think about younger people and how they
consume product, and that is exactly how you do it.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
All Right, we have the general on the show tonight.
This will be in podcast form soon enough. Tomorrow we'll
check in with some Texans we got guests. Stay tuned
find out more. Have a great night, Thanks so much
for listening. Area forty five coming up next Go Texans.
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