Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, everybody?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Welcoming to a Wednesday ED issue of Texans All Access
from the Monday Texans radio studio, John Harris alongside the
Voice to the Texans, Mark Vandermere. The two of us
were vehemently opposed to the tush push ban and we
won today.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Are you doing? I don't know about vehemently for me?
I speaking for you, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
I thought, you know, big deal, But until it happens
to you, right until you're.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Playing the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
So wait, you have the list of teams that voted
to ban, yes to ban the tush push? Were they
all NFC East or were all the other NFC East
opponents in that group?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So if you are just joining us or wanting to
know what we're talking about, the tush push is still alive.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
That was something that was.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Talked about at the.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Owners meetings in March when you were in Orland. There
were the breakers, and then today there was a revote
at the annual meeting or the owners meetings up in Minneapolis. Yeah,
you need twenty four votes. The tush push ban got
only twenty two. The ten teams that voted against the
(01:20):
tush push ban. Okay, these are the ones that were like,
tush push, Let's keep pushing tushes. Okay, the Eagles obviously, yeah,
the Ravens, the Browns, the Lions, the Jaguars, Dolphins, Patriots, Saints, Jets, Titans.
(01:41):
So every NFC East team is like, get that thing
out of here.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
They got to see it twice a year minimum. They
don't want to see it. They don't want to see it.
Washington played them three times last year. I don't know
how many tush pushes were in that well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
In the NFC Championship game, it almost kind of became
a joke because Frankie Luvu kept trying to die over
the top and try to stop it. And there's a
part of me that's like, there's a part of me,
a small part of me that thought about the tush
push in a way that, Okay, it's almost impossible to
stop everything in NFL history, no matter what it was,
(02:17):
the first forward pass, the T formation, everything got stopped
or gets stopped. Nothing has run rampant just across the board.
It always gets stopped. So I always thought about this
as I kind of want to see it stick around
because I want to see somebody stop it. Yeah, devise
some way to stop, to devise some way to stop it,
(02:39):
and then all of a sudden it just dies on
the vine later, but nobody has The commanders last year
were kind of toying around with it to a point
where they messed with it at the I can't remember
when it was during the game, but to a point
where the official had to turn on his mic and say, look,
if the commanders do this again, we have the power.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
The referees have the power to a.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Ward a touchdown to the Eagles, cheez, because they kept
jumping off SIDEV was diving over what.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
A bunch of buzz killing And that's what I imagine
the NFL was trying to, uh, you know, keep away from.
But it stands.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I don't like I don't like pushing players in general.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
That's the one thing I thought about it. That was
the one thing I'd issue with. I don't like that.
It's there for a reason you and I were discussing
this off the year. It's hard to officiate. There's some
gray areas From time to time. When it happens to you,
you feel like, oh man, that's like cheating. It feels
like it. But credit the teams to do it. I
(03:39):
don't think we do that enough over the course of
Texans history. I haven't seen enough of that kind of
thing from the Texans in close yardage situations. But the
fact that all the NFC East teams didn't like it,
and doing the math, you just pointed out the ten
teams that voted to keep it or wouldn't vote against it.
The Texans wanted it out since one voting for the band. Yeah,
(04:02):
for the band. They wanted no tousch push. And that
was the majority of the league twenty two. But you
need twenty four. You need seventy five percent to make
it pass. Do you remember a team being successful with
it against US? I don't, But what I do what
I think we've done much better. Ironically, since CJ took
over as quarterback, we're much better with quarterback sneaks.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, because he's super strong.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
He's very strong, and he's very smart about where he
should go and find, and he's quick so he can
pick and choose his lane to go find where he
can get a foot.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
His body description it's hard to verbalize because I've seen
bigger quarterbacks, okay, yeah, and you've seen quarterbacks that you
feel like are more athletic. For lack of a better
way of putting it, I think he's deceptively athletic and
quick behind the line of stray much and I think
that he'll only get better at that as time goes on.
(04:57):
The run he had in the playoff game against the
Charge case in point, I mean he had the burners
going for that one. Yep, it was awesome. But Johnny,
he's thick. He just got thick legs and button everything.
It's just the bigger quarterbacks get hurt less by and large.
He's only his two games in his two year career
so far. Let's knock on whatever he can knock on
(05:19):
right now. Keep the health thing going for CJ. Stroud.
So yeah, great that he does quarterback sneaks well, because
you and I have talked about it, this team and
quarterback sneaks. We've seen our share of quarterbacks go out
Matt Shop, Tom Savage in crucial situations going out because
of a quarterback sneak injury. And that's why the Eagles,
(05:39):
for the team Brock are a real good team with
the tush push. They coach it well and Jalen Hurts
can squat like a thousand pounds or something, and he's
a real physical dude.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
See.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think I think the Eagles answer to the tush
push would have just been take the guy behind Jalen
pushing and the running back behind and just take them
out of the equation and just let two guys go
in the a gaps and push, but not push Jalen.
(06:10):
I think that would be just as that would be
just as effective as a quarterback sneak if they did
something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Here's funny.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I over the last few days, I've been kind of
clearing out my computer, trying to organize where I've got
things on my computer. I had documents and files all
over the place, and so I started to put things
into different folders. So I found a folder I had
actually cut a video or had a video of the
Eagles essentially their answer to the tush push defense. And
(06:42):
it was awesome. They ran this against the Giants and
they came up in tush pushed formation and Hurtz took
the snap and instead of going forward, well the Giants
are diving in, turned and tossed it to I think
at the time was Miles Sanders.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
He took it.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
He's got all kinds of he makes like a thirty
yard game. I think the Eagles, the Eagles can make
mock reason the right word, that's not what I'm looking for.
They can make They could do whatever they want with
this thing. Honestly, the fact that they get to keep
it and they get to do it, it's just it's
I mean, and you know it's coming during a game.
It's demoralizing. Yeah, like, hey, we need to get a
(07:21):
yard and you know exactly what we're gonna do. We're
still gonna get the yard on you. It's demoralizing. So
the tush push lives, as does aiding a runner, like
pushing a runner forward.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
The rule that was.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Put in place in two thousand and five and been
in the NFL for a long time about you couldn't
aid or push a runner. You couldn't And I just
remember that growing up like that was one of the
things that kind of beat in our heads, like you
can't push a runner. You can't try and push them
over the goal line or push them forward for a
first down.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
But No. Five, they changed the rule. Not really sure why.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I guess it was kind of hard to officiate, so
they it took that rule out. I think that's what
the Packers when they went back and they revised the
rule or the NFL asking the Packers to do it,
the Packers just basically said, you can't aid and to
bet anybody.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And I'm fine with that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I'd be okay with that, But I was okay with
the tush push staying as it was, and that was
just such a big talking point. So the tush push
is still on. Here's the other one, Mark and I.
Even though this rule proposal would have hurt the Texans
(08:37):
not only last year, but maybe other years as well,
I think yeah, I think in twenty twenty three as well.
The playoff seeding situation where all four division teams get
a home game. Now, the proposal was that we're going
to let the records determine the seeding and then play
the seedings out as they are. I thought that actually
(09:02):
had a better chance of passing than the tush push band.
I thought that was gonna I thought that was gonna fly.
And we're the team that gets brought up the most
when people are talking.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
About why that should be overturned.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I was expecting it, and I was like, you know what,
all right, we would have beaten them in LA last year.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Anyways, who cares we would have beaten them there, I
don't care. We're going on a road. Doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You gotta win playoff games on the road, So you
just gotta win one on the road to start. Look,
I know how awesome and electric are playoff games are here.
You gotta win on the road. So you got on
a good on the road. So what you're in a dance?
Just dance in somebody else's house. That didn't even make
it to the vote this morning, right, it didn't even
get to the vote. The Lions pulled the proposal when
(09:47):
they basically saw it wasn't it didn't sound like it
was gonna put.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
It's like a presidential candidate pulling out of the race
when they know they have no shots. Yes, so why
bother running, why bother getting on the ticket when you
know you're not gonna to win it. Let me tell
you how many times this would have affected the Texans. Okay,
let's go back. Okay, let's go back. Let's go back
to the playoff appearances twenty eleven. Twenty eleven, the Texans
(10:11):
go ten and six. They hosted the Cincinnati Bengals, who
were nine and seven at the time, so that all.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Would have worked. That would have worked out.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Right, Let's go to twenty twelve, where they were twelve
and fours. Right, twelve, I don't think I would have
look at this that would have stayed. So the Broncos
had thirteen, the Patriots had twelve. The Patriots were actually
the two seeds. They were the one knocked the Texans
out twenty fifteen. It definitely would have affected the Texans
because they won the division at nine and seven, hosted
the eleven and five Chiefs who played like an eleven
(10:43):
and five team and smashing the Texans thirty to nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
So would we So who was so? Now here's what's interesting,
who's the sixth seed? Because if the sixth seed was tenants? Yeah,
who's the sixth seed?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Let's go back to twenty fifteen because I was already
moving on.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Because the sixth seed would have been if that six
seed was tens seven, we would have moved all the
way down.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
The Jets were ten and six as the second place
finished ser in the AFC East.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Ooh, the Jets didn't make it hot. What do you
do now, Johnny?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
The division team in there would be proposal would have
definitely made the playoffs, but the Jets were on the
outside looking in at ten and six and twenty fifteen
with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Todd Bowles coaching, they missed the
playoffs altogether.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Vision Championship takes precedence, takes.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Precedence, so you still have a problem there, and I think, yeah,
this could be one of the problems you'd look at
that's right, because all right, we're rewarding record, but now
we're saying you're out because a division winner had a
better record.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
You reward record.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
On the other hand, you don't reward yeah, So like
a so we would have been the sixth seed in
that six situation.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Wouldn't have solved all the problems, definitely.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
In twenty sixteen, the Texans hosted the Vegas Raiders. They
were the Oakland Raiders then and the Raiders were twelve
and four.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Derek Carr gets hurt late.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Of their victories that year was over the Texans in
Mexico City. Connor Cook ends up starting for the Raiders
Matt mcgloy and the backup can't go. So if the
third string quarterback get beaten here by the Houston Texans,
who were nine and seven, winning the division and a
tiebreaker with the Tennessee Titans, and the Dolphins were ten
and six and made the playoffs. They lost to the Steelers, right, yeah,
(12:21):
remember that twenty nineteen or twenty eighteen. Let me go
back to twenty eighteen almost, I see, I think I
blocked that one out because that was losing to the
Colts YEP in the playoffs, and the Texans certainly won
the division that year with an eleven and five record.
The Chargers were twelve and four. I think that holds.
I think that holds. Yeah, you're go the host.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So just thinking about this, going back to twenty fifteen,
so instead of playing the Chiefs at home, we would
have gone on the road as the sixth seed to
take on a Cincinnati Bengal team that was starting AJ mccerrn.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
That would have been better. We might game that would
have been better, Yeah, way better.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Because the Steeler you mentioned, the Chiefs were eleven and five,
they would move up to the four seed. The Steelers
would move up to the five seed because they were
ten and six. We would move all the way down
to the sixth seed and we would go.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
To we would go to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Wow, a team that we had beaten earlier on Monday
night in Cincinnati, but.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
We would go back there, for we would go back
there for the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Texans were the three seed and twenty to eighteen lost
to the Colts.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
God were the three seed. God, dang it, three seed.
Let's see.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And do you remember who knocked us out? Nick Foles
that damn last second drive against Philly. All we had
to do was hang on against Philly. After we made
the comeback, of course, and all we had to do
is hang on keep him from going ninety yards. Darren
darren Sprolls and zach Ertz and they and they win
a game. And I remember this because the Patriots tweeted
(13:55):
out a picture of Nick Foles and said thanks Nick.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I remember that.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That moved the Patriots to the two and moved us
down to the three. Now we got to play Indy.
Now here's the other thing. Hold on, do we play Indy.
Let's receive that, because then you got the six and
we were the three. Yeah, we couldn't have gone anywhere.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, let me ask you this, what would happen under
the said proposal. There would be a proposal that got
turned down. Today, if you're in a tiebreaker with a
team that doesn't finish first in another division, and if
they win championship presence, Yes, but it takes to the
point we made a few moments ago.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It still kind of sucks.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Yeah, you know when you're when it doesn't solve all
the problems. Obviously, it would have meant something last year
with the Chargers were reported that out so good thing
that I think it's a good thing for the AFC
South that it didn't pass so or it didn't even
get brought to the table.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
This is my theory.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
The owners want that division to mean more than just
making the playoffs. You get a home game, you get
to hang a banner. At some point, it's a big
deal to win your division. Yeah, no matter what your
division is like, whether it's a division with subpar records
or great records or whatever, you win your division, you've
done something in this league. A lot of people would say, yeh,
(15:14):
so what, but it does mean something. And hey, I
like all those division flags. I want an AFC championship
and a super Bowl. But for now, this is what
we've got. The division gets you in. Yeah, the division
gets you now. Watch what happens in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Watch the Texans not win a division but still get in.
Like somebody goes eighte nuts and goes thirteen to four.
Now what and the Texan's still get a home game,
but as a wild card. But that rule was shot down.
That rule was shot down, So what's you know? We're
talking about alternate playoff histories. Twenty fifteen would have been different.
(15:56):
Twenty sixteen, we would have gone to Pittsburgh. We played
Oakland here. We would have gone to Pittsburgh in the
first round because Pittsburgh was the three seed.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
At eleven and five, we end up nine to seven.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
We're in the four seed, but the other two would
have gone ahead of us, so the Raiders would have
gone to four. The Dolphins would have gone to five.
So that would have been your first round game, Dolphins
at Raiders. That would have been Matt Moore versus Connor Cook.
And the league would not like that. The league would
have hated that. That would have been your four to
five match up. In the playoffs. We would have faced
the Pittsburgh stew I would have kept us out of
(16:31):
a Saturday afternoon for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yes, that would have stopped the invitation. That would have
stopped it. Right there.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
In twenty sixteen, however, the rules didn't even get to
the voting floor.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Playoff seeding will remain the exact same. Yeah, I mean
the same. Right, you win division, you will host a
playoff game.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Look, just win the division this year, at the very
least win the AFC South again. I'll take that. I've
said that before. I'll take the ten wins in the division.
But I want more. Now, want more. Let's go get more.
But it's a very tough road. Okay, you want more?
All right, here's more info that came out of the
owners meetings today. Those two are big, no doubt. The
next couple are fun.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
HBO's Hard Knocks has its team and division.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Okay, the division is during the season.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So the division is during the season, and then the
training camp team that's a that's.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
A different story.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The training camp hard Knocks will be the Buffalo Bills, who.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I don't think I've ever had a hard Knocks. I
don't think they've ever had hard knocks. But there are.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Numerous teams I believe, who have never had hard knocks,
because that has to be the case.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yes, it only existed.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
The Packers have never done in one or something Yeah,
the Packers have never done it.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
I mean you can go on the list of teams. Yeah,
I haven't done it, but I'm okay with this. Yeah,
josh Allen, Keon Coleman, Kean Coleman will be a big star. Mcdernaett,
McDermott will not be popular. He's not like no O'Brien
entertaining on hard knocks. But you and I were saying
he's one of the more underrated coaches in this league.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I kind of hope, My hope is what comes out
of this is maybe a little bit more respect and
maybe admiration for Sean McDermott.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, because I think that's that's.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
What he's had to flip through this coordinators roster overhaul
couple of times since they emerged in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, twenty nineteen, went to playoffs in seventeen. Yeah, so
that was kind of get the ball roll in twenty eighteen.
I remember we beat him here with Joshua starting as
a rookie little the next year they were here playing
a playoff game. Yeah, and almost won it, almost won it.
The in season division will be the NFC East, the Eagles,
(18:48):
the Cowboys, the Commanders, and the Giants.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
This is going to be huge. Nothing.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
This is brilliant because the NFC East, I mean, it's
got the Cowboys in there, and you have the big
market teams, You've got New York, You've got Philadelphia, you
have Washington.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
This is Hugre's one division that had more primetime games
than any other division and it wasn't close.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's the one. This one, that's the one. Yeah. And
now that the Washingtons glore.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Now that Washington is good again, that will automatically make
it so because the Eagles are always going to get
their fair share unless they absolutely stink. And the New
York Yeah, New York sells itself. Dallas is Dallas. But
Washington being good raises everything.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Everything.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You've got Tinny Champs, Sakwan Barkley, You've got all kinds
of different personalities up in Philly, big Dom, the security
guard commanders, and what they did to turn around. I
think the fact that the hard Knocks cameras will be
back in the Giants building.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, it's interest. They know. This was the sales pitch
to the Giants.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
It's going to be the head coach talking to the team,
a few players off to the side, and games that's it.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
That's all the can do. So it's not the teams. Yeah,
it's not the in depth. Look, so here's your question. Okay,
here's a question.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
They do in season hard knocks.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
It starts usually like around late November, early December. Right,
Will Brian Day will be the coach when hard knocks
in season?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Is? Then? I think so?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
On?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I think so. I think so too. I think I
like Davie.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I think he's a good coach, I really do. I
think the last couple of years have been kind of
a difficult, obviously, but I think he's a good coach.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I think personnel has a lot to do with what
they've been going through as much as anything. And I
think the quarterback situation, look Russell Wilson, Dart who knows
Wilson should play well enough to do something to keep
them afloat. Yeah, I mean your question was, well, Dave
will still be there. He'll be there.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I think. I think you're right. I think they'll two.
Enough about that.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
One other thing that the NFL did, and I want
to make sure that we hit this. The NFL is
introducing the Protector of the Year award for the top
offensive lineman in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
How do they vote for this? How do they this
is gonna be it?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Here you go, Okay, winner of the Protector of the
Year award will be determined by a committee of former
NFL offensive linemen. When they discussed this, Troy Vincton, vice
president of Football Operator Executive vice President of Football Operations,
announced that the announcedident of League Meetings Protective Year Award
this year. As he discussed, he mentioned some guys are
(21:31):
already apparently going to be involved. Will Shields, Andrew Whitworth,
Jason Kelcey, and the Charles Bentley as retired players will
be part of the selection process. Now, it doesn't sound
as if that's all of them, might be the only ones,
but Vincent said that Bill's left tackle Dan Dawkins got
the ball rolling, he said during an interview back in
the spring. Earlier in the spring, he talked about this like, hey,
(21:54):
we need to have we got it for everything else,
why not for offensive lineman? About it being about a
bang the NFL is putting in the Protector of the
Year award. So I'm gonna ask one question related to this,
if a Texan were to win that Protector of the
Year award this year.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
This year, what's the team result? What's oh really? What
what is the record?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That's what I'm asking.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I'm gonna go eleven and five six, I mean eleven
and six. I'll get used to it at some point.
Eleven we have a guy that wins that award. That
means the offensive line is kicking. I think it's twelve
thirteen wins.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I'll take that.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
But I'm then we don't have to worry being for
conservative here my estimate it's a goods the winner. But
who's to pick your winner right now? Oh, I've got
throughout the league. No, for the Texans, it's our Yeah,
me too, Titus.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
And I think Titus. I think Titus playing at that level.
I don't like the name of the award. I don't
like the Protector. They're gonna come up with something. They're
gonna name it after somebody. It's gonna be like I
don't like to say it's the Protector. It should be
more than a Protector. Yeah, it could be the pusher,
the bowling people over, the pancake maker.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Whatever. We need another name.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
We need because workshop that well, look, we had a
left tackle here, who's a hell of a protector, right,
but you need even more to be a great offensive.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Like it should be the Jason Kelcey Award for the
top offensive linean n.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, that's what it should be. Ye.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
No, I'm not saying Jason Kelcey, but I'm just saying
it should be named after a great offensive lineman, like
the Jerry Kramer Award for I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Wait, college has the Ted Hendricks Award for the defensive end.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yep. They have Dave Remington for center. Do they have
a defensive tackle? They must know Steven's tackles.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
We've got the Lombardi for like guys around the line
of scrimmage sort of close near by. It's always hard
to describe, especially.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
When the award.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
They're like, who can win this? Well, brock Bauers can
yep for it just as much as that three hundred
and seventy five pound nose guard. I'm like, it's an
interesting award. Interesting when you can do that. And they
had those years where Joe Burrow won it or you know,
we will talk about we will talk about those exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
We want to talk about those years at all, right,
but we will talk about is Drew and I doing
inn in the Lab.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
In the Lab, You'll know what I'm talking about. We
get back right here on Texans All Access.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
What's happing, everybody?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Welcome back to this Wednesday issue of Texans All Access
from the Hunday Texans Radio studio. I'm John Harris Football,
I a Sadeline reporter in one half of the in
the Lab podcast along with my man Drew Doherty. This
is a true in the Lab, we dork out, We
nerd out on redrafts. This one takes us back a bit,
(24:45):
but a lot of butterfly effect with this one.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Take a listen to what we had to say here
on in the Lab.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
John, We've got an in the lab in the Lab
today because this is it.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, this is it.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
You John Harris, me, Drew Doherty and you watching listening.
Thank you, the three of us together here now in
the lab in the Lab. What's that mean? Well, we
dork out here sometimes in the lab when they started
back in twenty eighteen, we kind of wanted to dig
deeper and do some fun things and nerd out in
a sense. So we've redrafted the twenty eleven draft for
(25:20):
the Texans. We've redrafted the two thousand and ten draft
for the Texans. You know, we've done things like that.
We've we've said, okay, you get to pick two Houston
Oilers all time and put them on the two thousand
and nineteen Houston We did that, So that's what we're after.
We do mock draft simulations about three or four times
(25:42):
a draft season. So with that in mind, right in
our wheelhouse, coming down Broadway, you gotta swing. If this
is there, you're not taking this one. We are hammering
away at this and hitting a triple to the gap.
PFF recently, they've been doing a lot of things here
this offseason, but recently they had a redraft for the
(26:06):
entire NFL right of two thousand and six.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
John, Yeah, they're starting each year moving forward, and they
went back I think they went back to two thousand
and six because that was the first year I believe
with PFF. So that's where that's where they went back
and started, uh in two thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And they're doing a year every.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
I don't know, every week or so it seems, and
they're gonna do it probably up until the season.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But you you hit it.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Like are in the like ore in the lab like
love and genesis comes out of like doing redrafts and.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Looking back and butterfly effects and things like that.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
The what ifs, yeah, the what ifs yeah, and you
roll it right out of what if. That's all right,
move on, do something else. But we're gonna what if
what ifs.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
So two thousand and six to reset. We got to
give this twenty twenty three draft a few more years
before we can crown it. But two thousand and six
draft is generally regarded as the best in team history.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Nine pretty darn good.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Two twenty eleven you get JJ Watt, two thousand and
three you get dre But on the whole top to bottom,
it's tough.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
To argue about six.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Yeah, the first overall pick, you surprised everyone by taking
Mario Williams. He was a pro bowler here. He had
one hundred sacks in his career, a great player. Your
second rounder is now down the hall. He's your head coach,
but he's one of the greatest leaders in franchise history.
He was the defensive rookie of the year. It was
Demiko Ryans, linebacker played here through twenty eleven and was
awesome in the third round, You've got Charles Spencer, Eric Winston.
(27:33):
You got a couple of great tackles. Spencer got hurt.
It's too bad. He was promising. Yeah, block that for
what we're getting to. Eric Winston was phenomenal for you.
He started here for four or five years. He was excellent,
part of the best defensive line in team history. And
then in the fourth got the greatest tight end in
franchise history and Owen Daniels. And then after that we
(27:54):
got David Anderson in there, he's a wide receiver. Later
in the seventh, Wally Lundy was in there. I think
he was the one.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I think he's the only other one that we that
we needed to mention was Wally Lundy.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I think you hit all You hit the high point, hit.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
The high points.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
While yeah, well you got a fine player here, did
some some solid things. It's not as notable as some
of those others, but yeah, yeah, od in their great draft, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Tremendous draft.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
However, if PFF had had its way back in two
thousand and six, life in Houston would be all kinds
of different, crazy different, like crazy, I'm talking current day,
current team crazy different.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
And they just did the first round right, they just
did the first round. Yeah, that complicates things.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It does.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
They just did the first round, so they didn't go
any further, but they did thirty two picks. The last
two picks of the round show you, you know what
an exact science this ends up being. Because the last
two picks of a round, picks thirty one and thirty two,
Seattle Seahawks drafted. They redrafted Brent Grimes from Shippen's who
was undrafted, so they drafted a corner. They drafted Kelly
(29:03):
Jennings from out of Miami, and he was okay, but
Brent Grimes was really really good. And the last pick
of the round was the guy that I really loved
was Tremont Williams, cornerback to the Pittsburgh Steelers. So the
Pittsburgh Steelers had won the five season Super Bowl, were
going to six. So there are a number of things
when it comes to the butterfly effect of this whole
(29:25):
of just redrafting. So, like you said, Mario Williams is
drafted number one, PFF has the Texans redrafting Andrew Whitworth,
future Hall of Fame left tackle right PFF had an
overall elite ninety three point four PFF grade overall grade
(29:46):
across sixteen years.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Whitworth did it in both Cincinnati and then with the
Rams to finish up his career, won a Super Bowl
in twenty one, and then he got into media and
he's pretty good. He was an excellent left tackle. Yeah,
so it makes me wonder though there was outrage.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Yeah, Mario Williams was drafted by the face by the media,
and understandably so because he had Reggie Bush and he
had Vince Young also available, and I was in the
Vince Young camp.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I'll admit it would the outrage.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Did you put up the sign like Mattress Macda?
Speaker 3 (30:24):
No?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I did not.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
But the outrage if Andrew Whitworth would have been there
as well through the roof, would it have been worse
than the outrage we saw with Mario Williams, Because hey,
what had plagued the Texans at that that time, poor pass.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Parteclar David Carr taking a lot of sacks.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
And still though with the with those two at the
top the Reggie Vince debate, They're still going to be
outrage over Whitworth. But is it more understandable, like, well, okay,
at least they're getting a great tackle outrage versus who
is this guy?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
There would have been who is this guy?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Whitworth?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
But yeah, I think there's that an there, there's an
LSU component, and we know we got a lot of
LSU grats, and I think there would have been a
lot of thumbs up from Witworth having had a great
career at LSU. So I think, yeah, they're a little
bit of that. Okay, protection for your quarterback. I think
when I think back to two thousand, sixth in a
long time ago, but when you think about the thought
(31:20):
process in this building, it was we got to beat
the Colts.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
How are we going to beat the Colts? We got
to go rush to the quarterback. Okay, well how do
you do that? Well you go get this uber athlete
in Mario Williams.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Now to let you know that Mario Williams wasn't just
a complete dud in this redraft.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
He goes twelfth to the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So it wasn't as if it was a complete you know,
he was a complete bust, not at all. I mean
I think he and Mark and I talked about this
a little bit last week. Dr Mario's probably we talked
about this, Travis Johnson, He's like, Mario is probably the
most underrated Texan, but because he was the number one
overall picks, there was such expectation.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yes, yes, and man like Clowney.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Clowney didn't have anybody that he had to deal with
as far as Vince and Reggie that popular like him
in that fourteen draft.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Now, if you read Johnny Manziel, but everybody kind of
knew Johnny was a little rough around the edge is
it was a little different.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
And he was physically he was a smaller guy.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Yeah, there were real question legit questions and concerns about
what he could do in addition all the off field stuff.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
But man, the outrage would have still been there.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
With Whitworth and it still would have been fierce, but
I think, like you're saying, it would have been tempered
a bit by the LSU component. But Mario Williams after
he leaves the Texans, he goes on and has multiple
double digit sack seasons, get it quietly in Buffalo when
they weren't winning big like they are now. And you know,
(32:50):
he finishes, like I said, with over one hundred sacks,
and you're that's a good point he was one of
the most underrated Texans of all time. So here's because
the expectations were so.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I liked you brought this up.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
So when I saw this, my instant gut reaction was, Okay, well,
we're not drafting Dwayne in two thousand and eight, so
I was curious to see what PFF would do two
years from now. But at the time, I was like, well, okay,
we're not drafting Dwayne. If we had Whitworth that left tackle,
we're not drafting Dwayne in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And I thought what PFF did in two thousand and
eight was.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Pretty interesting, which we can get to a little bit later,
but that was my instant reaction. Okay, we're not drafting Dwayne,
so eight we can do something different. We're not gonna
trade up and down or whatever we did in that
draft to go get Dwayne Brown. Whitworth's gonna be the guy,
and he's gonna be the guy going forward. When I
told you that it was Andrew Whitworth the tackle at
(33:46):
number one, was your instant reaction?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Man?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
What would the what would the fans have thought about that?
What was your instant reaction to hear and Andrew Whitworth
at number one.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
With all the hindsight, I was like, that's cool, yeah,
you know whatever, but yeah, they would have lost.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I lost it.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
In two thousand and six, I was out Lubbock, Texas, Yeah,
and I was getting ready. I can't remember what I
was getting ready to do, but I heard that the Texans.
Because it was Friday night, they signed him to time
Mario and.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Im yes, I know exactly where I was too was happening.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
And now team Vince Young. I had seen all the heroics.
I thought he was Vince Young as a college quarterback.
I thought he was Michael Jordan as a college quarterback,
and he was gonna come home and do all these
awesome things.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And I swore off the Houston Texans.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
Friday night and Saturday, I was up at the United
Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas's where they play their basketball games.
It's probably called something different now, yeah, but they had
a studio down there in a control room, and I
was having to voice something for the Baseball Coaches Show,
the Larry Hayes Show that I hosted, and I just
seen Demiko Ryans and Alabama beat that really good Texas
(34:54):
Tech football team, Cotton Bowl. They only got him by
a field goal that fluttered through the left up right
and Demiko I'd interviewed him days before the game in
the ballroom at one of those.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Hotels, and Demiko was super smart.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
He was the SEC defensive player of the year, and
he reiterated a few times, He's like, we don't need
to blitz this team because we think we can win
with our front four, So we're not gonna have to blitz.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
We're not gonna have to blitz. We won't blitz him.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
I'm standing on looking down the line of scrimmage on
game day and the entire game, and what does Demiko
Ryans do. He blitzes a couple of times, and he
looked like he had been shot out of a cannon.
Saw lots of games that year. I saw Tech play
against play at Texas and they hung tight with him
for about a quarter, but then the eventual national champions
(35:39):
out ran him and out boat.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
They both raced him.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I never saw anybody like Demiko Ryans though, playing linebacker
that way, and so I was very very impressed. But
then I just forgot So the Texans Friday night they
sign Mario. They make it formal by drafting him and
I'm just grumbling. The second round is on Saturday, number
thirty three on Saturday, second round and they take Demico
(36:05):
Ryans and I look up at the screen and I'm.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Like, all right, I actually liked that. I think I'm
gonna get that.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
I'm gonna give the Texans one more chance, and hey,
how great is have things turned out?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Well, if it had gone the way that PFF called it,
you might not have thought that drew because, like you said,
Demiko was pick number thirty three, the first pick of
the second round.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
This redraft, he goes at pick number eighteen.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
Probably where he should have been ritten, right, you know, right,
because there were there was talk then well he fell.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
The Texans were lucky to get him.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Do you know who had pick number eighteen? Who's at
the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Yeah, I mean, imagine what life is like if Demico
Ryans had gone to the Dallas Cowboys their plays there,
ends up being the head coach for the Cowboys.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
He would have been talked about like Chuck Halle and
Leroy Jordan something great linebacker race yep of the of
the Cowboys past.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
You know, I thought it was interesting also in this
six draft. When I when I told Mark that, I
mean he about vomited on air.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
But Demico Ryance to the Dallas Cowboys in this redraft,
I mean, just seeing it just makes my blood boil,
just thinking that he would have been part of the Cowboys.
But what's interesting also in this draft was former Texans
that end up in this draft that weren't taken at
particular spots.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
So I mentioned Dimico goes at eighteen.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
A few picks prior to that, well, I mentioned Mario
goes number twelve to the Cleveland Browns, which, boy, Mario
and Cleveland would have been.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It would have been interesting at pick number sixteen.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
And ironic because the original pick here is another former Texan.
The Miami Dolphins in the redraft select Jonathan Joseph from
out of South Carolina, and the original pick of the
Dolphins was cornerback Jason Allen out of Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Jo were teammates.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Dimico goes eighteen at number twenty, the Kansas City Chiefs
originally drafted tom Ba Lee, but Ali has come off
the board already, so now they've got to go.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And it's interesting because they talk about the fact that
Willie Rofe retired after the NFL Draft.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Who's a tackle and so they would have needed more
tackles and they take one in the redraft. Eric Winston
from University of Miami goes number twenty one, pick before
the Patriots draft wide receiver kick returner Devin Hester from Miami. Yeah,
(38:53):
he would have been a good pace. How would life
have been different if he's with the Patriots. So the
Texans have three draft pick go in the first round
in this redraft.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
We're not done at pick number twenty six.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Now this guy ends up being redrafted to the team
that actually drafted him.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
They're just doing it one round earlier.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
But he ended up becoming a Texan along with Jonathan
Joseph in twenty eleven.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
That free agent class from Abilene.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Christian safety Danielle Manning goes number twenty six in this
redraft from two thousand and six. Wow, so number number
of Texans former Texans ended up going. But Andrew Leedworth
goes at number one to the Texans.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
So he's won.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
Ultimately, three from the six Texans draft class wound up
being redrafted as ys.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Mario Demiko and Mario Demiko and uh Winston Mario, Demiko, Winston.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
And No.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
One Daniels, No One Daniels No.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
In fact, I remember correctly, I don't remember seeing a
tight end drafted or redrafted in this entire first take
it back. Vernon Davis went to the Denver Broncos at fifteen.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
He was one, but I don't remember. That's why I
didn't remember many others.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, there were a bunch of other tackles, safety, safety, safety,
running back. This would have been much better. Well, he
ended up going to the same team. Race Jones Drew
went to the Jaguars at pick number twenty eight. He
ended up going to the Jaguars. So it's a good pick.
They just did it around earlier. So uh, definitely fun
to look back at two thousand and six because I
think that's a and it I think for a couple
(40:35):
of reasons, because it's that draft that has thought been
thought to have been one of the best in team history.
But if you tweak it, just even a little bit
with Andrew Whitworth, it has a massive butterfly effect. Maybe
not even you know, through the rest of that draft.
Do you take X first year in Houston, do you
take Winston, Do you take Winston or do you take neither?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, do you do? You focus under position?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
When they did the two thousand and seven redraft, when
they drafted Movie ky a number ten, they ended up
drafting redrafting Reggie Nelson, who played safety.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
And Reggie Nelson was a fine, solid player. I followed
him because he's at the University of Florida.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
I thought he's a really good zone player, and I
think he would have been a good good player for
the Texans, and the Texans had not had a good
history of safeties other than maybe Marcus Coleman at that point.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and when Danielle Manning got here,
you could argue he was instantly one of the best
they've ever had in the building. I think Glover wound up,
you know, making an argument for that, and I think
we got some guys now that are gonna make an
argument that's right, yep. But yeah, that's that's wild. I mean,
that's the butterfly effect. And I was explaining this to
(41:47):
my children in the car the other day. But yeah,
what changes with that? I mean, just in that one
draft alone is massive?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, massive? Yeah, I mean, no Dwayne Brown, so you
go with Whitworth. So in eight.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
So in eight when they did their p when PFF
did the redraft, they had us drafting a guard, Carl Nicks,
who is one of the better guards there's been in
the NFL, but injuries sort of short, you know, heurtailed
his career.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
But if you had Nix and Whitworth on the offensive line,
whether you take Winston or not, and O six, let's
say you do take Winston, you got a line with
Whitworth and uh Winston that you tackles Carl Nix at guard.
There are some things that you probably you know, you
probably don't have to draft Bubb Caldwell, you know, who
had kind of a you know, up and down the
(42:36):
short career here in Houston.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Maybe you can focus somewhere else. And of course we
talked about this all the time we do our redrafts.
Are like, okay, yeah, we're doing it with hindsight.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's always good when you could look back at a
draft and go, man, this was great in the moment
and ten years down the road, but a draft never
looks as good as you wanted to.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
That's why it's always fun to do these redrafts. But
I think it does bring up Why didn't they do that?
Why did they?
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Andrew Orth wasn't going number one, It wasn't in fact
going to second round. But when you look back on hindsight,
it makes a lot of sense that he would have
been a pick considering, like you said, Drew, how much
the Texans struggled with protecting.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
The quarterback totally totally, and then in O eight, like
you talk about, they go with Nicks. The guard makes
things interesting. So you have a good offensive line in
theory just by those two guys alone, because you've you've
really bolstered things they're making. Maybe you're making things easier
for Shaw, but really are you Because what we saw
in eleven and for ten like that, that unit, those
(43:35):
are the two Those are the gold standards here in
Texans history as far as that's offensive lines, that's what
you're able to do.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Man, I love things like this.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
In two thousand and eight redraft by PFF, the first
pick is Matt Ryan goes to Miami Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
This is a huge butterfly effect. He goes down to Miami.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Number two pick was a guy who won second round
to Saint Louis Rams.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
They took Chris Long. He ends up going in this draft.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
At some point he had a really good career, but
they go with Klays Campbell Saint Louis Rams at number three.
The Atlanta Falcons who went with Matt Ryan draft in
this redraft Dwayne Brown at number three overall in the
two thousand and eight drafts.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I would have never had my big draft moment if
that would have gone down this way. But it is
kind of interesting to look back at this. The number
four pick in two thousand and eight redraft was the
Oakland Raiders. They take a gun slinger by the name
of Joe Flacco, Joe Fleck. Joe Flacco in Oakland. Man,
I don't know how I feel about that. Joe Flacco
in Oakland. That would have been kind of wild. Well,
(44:38):
it's a wild day at the owners meetings. Let's recap
it all. Go ride in the NFL. Next right here
we Texans All Access. All right, we got one final
segment this edition to Texans All Access from the Texans
A Radio studio. I am your host, John Harris, football analyst,
sideline reporter for your Houston, Texas.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Okay, owners meetings going on in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
A lot A lot was decided today. Let's run down
them so you're aware. The Tush push lives. The ban
dies twenty two to ten. They didn't get the twenty
four votes. Apparently Jason Kelsey was brought into the building.
Seth Wickersham has an article about what it was like
(45:19):
in the room when Kelsey went in there. Jeffrey Luriy
ordered the Eagles. What he had to say must have
probably changed a few votes. Because the Eagles got what
they wanted. NFL did not. The Tush push lives on,
at least for another year. The playoff proposal of dropping
(45:43):
the division winners just ranking them in order of record,
that also actually didn't fail. It never got to the
vote stage this morning. It was pulled out of there
by the Lions. They decided, no, not gonna do this,
and it looked like they weren't going to get the
votes anyways. So yeah, as Mark said, it's kind of
(46:05):
like a president candidate, presidential candidate who has like early
buzz and then all of a sudden knows he's not
going to get the votes or she and now I'm out.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I'm out. I'm out before you get beat.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
So I kind of get that so toush push lives,
current postseason ranking, seating, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
It lives.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
You know, market had a good time in the first
segment talking about what would have happened if that rule
had been followed and okayed many years ago. How would
that impact the Texans playoff seatings. If you didn't hear that,
go back and listen to that from earlier in the show.
Hard Knocks features the Bills in training camp the NFC East.
(46:49):
During the season, there will be a Protector of the
Year award. Committee will include former NFL offensive line alumni.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
That is going to be pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yesterday, the NFL prove participation of players in the twenty
eight Olympics for flag football.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Today, on side kick moved back is proved.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
To move it back a yard, so from the thirty
four into the thirty five, but leaving the receiving team
where it is. Maybe that one yard difference is enough
to give the receiving team a little bit more of
a chance, a little bit more hope on the outside kick.
We had Frank Ross who joined us yesterday to talk
about that. Go check out coach Ross cuts by the
way Coach ross cuts dot Com And given any way
(47:34):
that you possibly can to the event that he's got
June six, that's gonna be incredible. But Coach rosscuts dot Comic,
sure you go check that out. And I'm gonna check
out because that's the end of.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
The show right here.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
We got Area forty five. That's gonna take you for
the rest of the evening. But I appreciate Mark for
being here for you guys. As always, to Drew, my
main man, let's see tomorrow and as always, go Texans.