November 10, 2025 • 45 mins
The Point After Week 10Rob, Matt, and Mike recap the Steelers big loss to the Chargers and where the Steelers go from here on out.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hell, everybody, Welcome to the point after, presented by your
neighborhood Forwards storing the students pro shop get it direct
from the team at shop dot Steelers dot com alongside
Matt Williamson and Mike pursuita I'm rob king following this year.
There's twenty five to ten loss last night in La
at Sofi Stadium in a game in which this twenty
(00:27):
five to three Steer's got a late touchdown and make
it twenty five to ten. Just not a good game.
Steelers did not play well. Mike Tomlin talked about it
after the game. Aaron Rodgers talked about it after the game,
and now Mike and Mad are going to talk about it.
So Mike, let's start with you. Your instant takeaways from
this twenty five to ten loss to the Chargers that
drops the Steelers to five and four.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
A little bit more involved than instant.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Had a chance to sleep on it for three hours
and then doing the morning show today.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Congratulations on a good night's sleep.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Anyway, go ahead, no problem, you know, during the morning
show today and then no waiting to do this program
with you two find professionals. I had a chance to
go back and look at a lot of the game,
and I'm gonna put the vast majority of it on
Aaron Rodgers. I know it is a team game, and
I know the quarterback often gets too much credit and
too much blame, but he fled out stunk last night.
(01:23):
And I don't care about the coverage or the rush.
There were plays to be made. I know you can't
make all of them, but you also can't make none
of them. And you know, they brought Aaron Rodgers year
and DK Metcalf here to make beautiful music together, and
it's not happening often enough. And I know he gets
a lot of attention from the defense. But there were
(01:45):
one on ones. There was a one on one with
a safety on the second possession of the game and
the ball fell incomplete. That can't happen. There was a
deep ball under throw to Calvin Austin. There was a
throw to John Smith that could have been a touchdown
that he made. The Rogers made way more difficult than
it needed to be, and Smith ended up coming down
with the ball that got further reviewed into an incompletion.
(02:07):
He missed gain Well in the flat before he missed
Metcalf at the pylon.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I mean, on and on again.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Can't make them all, but got to make way more
than they made, which was pretty much none.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I think the only one I would quibble with it
would have been a nice play to make. I think
all the other plays you're talking about, Aaron Rodgers normally makes, right.
I mean, you know the Johnny Smith overthrow Calvin Austin,
it needed to be another foot further. Calvin had about
a yard and a half of separation and.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
He's gone, right. I mean, that's that's a touchdown.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, I think I think John Smith probably, you know,
I think there's a good chance john who scores a
touchdown there. I remember that was a drive that wound
up with the miss field goal, if I'm not mistaken,
And so he came in with no points and a
chance to maybe dictate a little bit. The one where
he rolled left to broken play and threw back across
right to metcalf with molding on him.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
That's a tough play. I mean, that's a that.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
But I'm quibbling now because I largely agree that their
throws at Aaron Rodgers normally makes. We've seen him make
him all year long, and for whatever reason, he didn't
make him and.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Let me say, Rob, I think he'll make them again.
I'm not down on a yea yet.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
No.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
No, I've been a big fan.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You know, he got here when he got here for
mini camp in the springtime, and I've become a little
more infatuated with watching him go about his business each
and every day. And I think he's been a phenomenal
player this year. I think he's been a phenomenal teammate.
But last night he stunk, and you know, shake it off,
(03:36):
go back to work and be better against the Bengals.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Matt, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
I thought there was a lot of meat left on
the bone early in the game that the Steelers didn't
take advantage of. Boswell missed a kick, there was a
punt muffed, there was Echoles really struggling against Smaconkey. I
thought there were some holes that Vaidell ran through way
too many that were way too big. Steel running game
(04:02):
was fine. I didn't have a real problem with the
steel running game overall, but I would I would have
leaned into Warren earlier. There were some coaching things on
both sides of the ball, the majority of which scheme wise,
that I thought favored Harbaugh's staff more so than Tomlins.
But I'm with Mike. I mean, I really think you
lose that game and it goes as poorly as it
(04:23):
did because one phase, and that's the Steelers passing game
was clearly not close to being even league average, and
I think Rogers is the most to blame in that group.
The protection wasn't great. Boy, it seemed like a need
for a second receiver was greater than ever. Metcalf's not
the contested catch receiver that some people think he is
(04:44):
and maybe the organization think he is, and teams are
doing everything possible to you know, double him as much
as possible and take away the Steeler quick game. But again,
if rarely do I and I don't think Mike does
either blame one guy, and it's not on highly on
one dude, but quarterbacks real important. I mean, if if
your hockey goalie doesn't stop any that night, then you
(05:05):
don't win.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know I will, Okay, So let me let me
follow up and ask you about something, because again, when
I'm calling the game, I rarely watched the replay. You know,
Aaron Rodgers was asked in I thought his postgame comments,
by the way, were right in the money. And I'm
going to try to unpack a little bit of that
with you here, Matt. So, I rarely watch replays, right,
(05:30):
I'm getting ready for the next Yeah. Yeah, So it
looked to me like there were some times where Aaron
Rodgers stepped up into the pocket where he didn't need to.
I thought maybe this, I thought, so the safety was
one of those times. Having said that, there were also
you know early on the Seahawks, you know, won some
(05:53):
battles and put Rogers back on his heels on the opening,
the very first drive of the game. You know, he
was put back on his heels because of a good
pass rush. So I thought that maybe some of that
pass rush a little bit, maybe with self inflicted which
happens with every quarterback, which seemed to happen last night
and again without watching the replays, and Rogers said, I'm
(06:14):
gonna have to go back and look at it. I
really don't know if that's if that's what I did.
And I'm asking you because I really don't know if
that's what he did either. It's what it felt like
a little bit. The other thing is you had one
of your stats was they the Chargers rush six or
more at at the lowest percentage in the league three
percent of the time.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
They didn't do it last night. I don't remember a
single time in which they did it. Last night.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
They blitzed once with five or with six blitzed period.
I don't know how many they brought on that one,
but per dexgen stats or whatever.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
They post on, yeah, that's well. And here's the thing.
They are.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Supplying a decent amount of pressure, a good amount of pressure.
They came in with a solid number of sacks, twenty
one sacks I think they had as a team, and
that was you know, Khalil Mack has gotten back and
been healthy, so he's going to add to that a
Dafe oh way, you picked him up from the Ravens.
He had four sacks in four games. He's going to
add to that. TWI polo too, and we talked about
(07:12):
this last week. Matt toy Poloto brings you something. Bud
Dupree got his first sack. Uh egg boyd b on
the inside had three sacks going into this game. When
and because the other thing Aaron Rodgers said in the
postgame comas was there weren't a lot of guys open
well when you could rush for and get pressure and
drop seven in coverage. Yeah, there shouldn't be a lot
(07:33):
of guys open, and I thought that was you know,
as we're talking about this, could Rogers have been sharper? Absolutely,
he said so last night. He misgrows he normally makes.
But it felt like they got pressure with four drop
seven And that's a tough way to make a living
if you're an NFL offense.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
On thousand percent And you said a lot of really
good stuff there, And I love that we're actually going
to give credit to the opponent because there aren't many
people that do what we do on Mondays after a
Steeler loss that recognize the other team might be okay too.
You knows nothing to do with it whatsoever. I think too. He,
by the way, is i'd never say his last name
(08:12):
on purpose, is a tremendous young player. I knew that's
your style. Let's set you up for that.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
And their edge guys in general, I thought were really
really good. And I don't think it's a unique game plan,
but I definitely think bringing four and making Rogers hold
the ball a little more. And I have not watched
the All twenty two. When we record this, it kind
of screws up my schedule a little bit, but it
sure looked like they were not only dropping seven, but
(08:38):
really focusing on the short zones, you know, the make
taking away the quick game, you know, with with someone
over the top of Metcalf take away the quick game.
And you know, Rogers time to throw was a lot
higher than usual. He was trying to buy time in
the pocket. And your original question was, you know, how
did he kind of handle that? I thought he was
(09:00):
quite poor at it. Collinsworth was doing the color and
you know and saying, man, he's so dangerous when he's
on the move and rolling around and making plays, and
I didn't really see it that way. I thought he's
a lot more, you know, a lot better when he's
surgical and on time, and you know, as opposed to
ad libbing, you can do both over a Steeler stint
(09:20):
here though, but he often ran himself into pressure. Maybe
that's bad luck, but I also think the early pressure
that the Chargers produced against him affected him for the
rest of the game. And it wasn't as bad start
to finish. And Mike and I were talking about this
before the air we were on the air. It wasn't
like he was under pressure over and over and over,
(09:41):
and that they couldn't block a soul. If you rewatch
the game, it's not as harsh on the protection. I mean,
you were saying this might more than that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, it's it's almost like a Pavlovian response around here
with things don't go well.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Your line, your line, the on line, and Matt.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
To your point about Collinsworth, he was saying that Rogers
was stepping up and the Chargers were almost anticipating that,
like the edge guys were getting a little push and
then they were coming off. I don't know, as an
offensive tackle what you're supposed to do when you're retreating
and trying to block a guy and then he starts
running away from.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
You, back towards the lion Scraper.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, I mean, I guess you can chase him.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
But Rogers was asked about that after the games that
I got to look at it and see, but I
think they came up with a trend that he does
step up.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Now.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
He's made some plays this year getting out on the wing,
either the playoffs, the play action boot or just escaping
right or left, but this seemed to be mostly trying
to go up the middle and yeah, Rob, I thought
he looked uncomfortable in the pocket all night. I don't
know why that was, but I've seen him look a
lot steadier. I would not say that he was commanding
(10:48):
the offense last night, and that's probably an explanation as
to why so many of his throws were off target.
The only one I saw him really kind of flinch
on was the one that gained well in the flat
before the one two metcalf at the pylon in early
in the fourth quarter when it was still a game.
I thought he just kind of saw the pressure coming
(11:09):
there and sort of, yeah, you know, got rid of
it and sort of turtled.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, so I'm going to get back to that sequence
in a moment. But just statistically, just so people know,
So the Chargers hit Rogers five times, they sacked him
three times. The Steelers hit Herbert nine times and sacked
him five times. By the way, that's about average for Herbert.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
They were six and three coming into the game. Herbert
had been hit eighty times. That's the most in the
in the NFL. So that's about nine times a game.
Steelers got a nine times, ste has sacked him five times.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
Rob can throw one thing in that's actually kind of
a plot. So Herbert's average time to throw was two
point two to two seconds. We've seen some low ones
over the years, but that's insanely low. I mean, that's like,
that'll be the lowest in the league. I bet or
bottom two. And I'm not a big Like when I
do Matt stats, I never put pressures in there because
(12:13):
I kind of looked at them like, eh, sometimes a
pressure ends up in a touchdown, you know. But they
had thirty pressures in this game against him, despite him
throwing the ball in two point two seconds, like.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
He threw it sideways after time? Is that right?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
I mean, sera pass rush was pretty awesome against the
terrible oil line.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But well, the other thing is is that he was
able to find release fouls, right, So the Chargers, I thought,
got a decent push and Rogers, you know you're talking
about this before, couldn't get into the short rhythm passing.
The Chargers took that away, you know. He said after
the game, there weren't a lot of open guys. That's
(12:51):
what it felt like to me. Yeah, he missed some throws,
he said, Look, I missed some throws. There also weren't
a lot open guys. That's again from where I was standing,
that's what it felt like to me. So when I
look at the sequence, Mike of you know, when they
went forward on fourth down and failed to get it right,
and they're they're trying to get themselves back in the game.
So you pitched the ball to warn off the right side.
(13:12):
He picks up four. Now you have second and sixth
the ball, it's the ten yard line.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Us check here, king, Are you allowed to run the
ball again? Here?
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So they yes, yes, but they had a run called
I'm I'm without having talked to Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, this was the slant to Uhcala.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
That yeah, they had to pitch right called You know what,
if we're going to spend our season lauding Aaron Rodgers
and understanding that it's the line of scrimmage. He's one
of the best in NFL history, and he sees something
that he likes and it doesn't work out.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Look, man, you know you got it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think you have to take that as a fan
and as a team. He thought he had a slant
to metcalf and left side in single coverage, and he did,
but Bud Dupree didn't move bud Dupree, who you expect
to rush from the weak side, especially with nobody in
front of him. You know you're inviting him to rush.
Bud stood there, his arms in the air. It's a
(14:16):
great guy in the passing lane. I'm sorry, but I
don't want Aaron Rodgers. If Aaron Rodgers, with his experience
and his talent, thinks he's got a slant the DK
metcalf that's going to result in the first down or
a touchdown, I don't want to take that away from him.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That's a great point. That's a great point.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And uh, you know I was being a little snarly,
uh the ball thing there, But think of that play
for a minute. They had Scornic on the left side
of the formation and they motioned him to the right.
That's right because the run is supposed to go to
the right. As Rogers pointed out afterwards, bud Dupree has
a clear shot to the quarterback and he doesn't take it.
(14:53):
He's been in the lake how many years eleven? I'm
gonna guess this is the first time he's got a
clear shot to the quarterback and.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You take it. Yeah, And it ruined to play so yeah,
so good on them, Good on them.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You know, if that's a young quarterback, you tell him
you're not you're not checking out of that play. Pitch
it to Warren. We got three plays to get six yards.
Pitch it to him. You know, you're getting cussed out.
But it's Aaron Rodgers. He makes that. When he makes
that decision, it normally works out. This time it didn't.
And then you know, so this is like a microcosm
(15:27):
to me of the game. That four play sequence. You're
running the ball pretty well and then the pass play
doesn't work out, and then you know, a poor throw
under duress to gain Well in the left flat. You know,
if that's completed, if game Well doesn't make another yard
from where he catches it, it's fourth and one.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And he's gonna make it and maybe score. Right, it
would have taken a superhuman play, I thought, by the
linebacker Henley, who was in chase mode and he's got
to catch Gainwell in the open field and get him.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Down on the ground.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I don't like this.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
If it wasn't even of it was just a throw
a little off the mark. The worst case is fourth
and one, right, and then on you know, the play
and people were people were talking about, well, I was
a poor decision to throw it to Metcalf, and Rogers
said it was a poor decision to throw out to
the Metcalf frankly, you know, I've seen that play a
(16:19):
couple of times. It didn't look to me like anybody
was open. That's what it looked like to me.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
I mean, at that point, the other choice thrown in
the seats. That's not the right movie, right.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Right right, I shouldn't go to Metcalf. Who are you
going to go to? Nobody was open, so that I
think that was your ran the ball pretty effectively. A
pass thing didn't work out, a throw was off the mark,
and then nobody was open. That's like that four plays.
I'm like, if I have to describe the game offensively,
that was kind of it, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
You know, and that last play in particular, I got
no problem going to Metcalf. Now, Rogers said he should
have either gone to the other side of the field
or thrown a back shoulder, which.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
I thought the throw might have been a back shoulder,
and Metcalf didn't the jost.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'd have been. I thought it was on the inside.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
It wasn't a good throw.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I would have been in favor of a back shoulder
or a jump ball. Now I've heard and even Rogers
said it was double coverage. Yeah, the safety was on
the near hash at the start of the play, but
it wasn't double coverage. He never got there. It was
one on one metcalf against cam Hart. Cam Heart's a
nice prospect. He's a second year player out of Notre Dame.
DK metcalf is DK metcalf. I'm six yards away from
(17:30):
the end zone. I got Aaron Rodgers throwing a DK metcalf.
I like my matchup against cam Harten. They won that one,
but I think they won that one because it was a.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Poor throw.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
In a long line of poor throws. You make half
those plays, Kingar. And with the scores different, the game
plays out different, they defend different, and more importantly, they
have to run their offense different. I think, get him
out of that run, run, throw sideways, shell and maybe
make him take some chances and expose Herbert even more
than he was exposed. And maybe it's a really different game.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
So Matt, I think Mike is thinking along the same
lines that I am. So you know, you have these
massive turnover games, and that's great, that's fantastic. That can't
be the only way your offense succeeds. It can't and
(18:24):
when you aren't dictating to a team. Look, there's a
reason the Chargers got rid of the ball quickly. We
saw that because the Steelers have an elite pass rush
and they have injured players. They're down their top three
tackles from the beginning of the season, top three tackles,
two of whom you've invested in a high pick and all,
and a lot of money in Slater who never never
(18:45):
played this year because he got hurt in the preseason.
So you know, you're trying to protect against that with Herbert. Well,
if you you know, instead of it being three to two,
if it's and it could very well have been fourteen,
not thing it really could have been. If it's fourteen, nothing,
Now those sat Now, maybe Herbert can't just hold it
(19:07):
for two point two seconds. Now he's got to hold
it that extra beat longer. Now you get the stripsack.
Now you get the turnover. Look, turnovers happen at any time,
but that's you know, I don't know, I haven't seen
a study, but I'm guessing the vast majority of turnovers
happen when a quarterback is under duress. So we can
talk about interceptions and strip sacks and that kind he's
(19:28):
got to hold it for that beat longer. Well, you
never forced even as good as the pass rush was,
you never forced Herbert to hold it that beat longer
because you never got the lead and dictated the game
to the Chargers, and therefore you didn't get the turnovers
that you were hoping to get in this game against
a team that was minus four in the turnover margin.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
One thousand, thousand percent. I mean, game script, game flow greatly,
greatly favored the Chargers, and I give them credit for that, though.
I mean, Harbor saw, much like Tomlin, understands those things
extremely extremely well that this is going to have to
be a rock fight. This is not going to be
a beautiful throw it all over the field for either
(20:10):
one of these teams. But I'm with you. I mean, obviously,
if things went different early in that game, and one
of the first things I said on today's show was
they did leave a lot of meat on the bone,
you know, dropped an interception, you know, things like that.
There were plays to be made in the first quarter
in particular, don't full.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Start on the first play of the game when they
give you the ball.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
On the right, right right on the forty I mean
it's like, right, this is going to be great.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, I want to get to that because that
was part of an interesting decision that Steelers made as
well going into this game. We'll get to that when
we continue in the Point After, presented by your neighborhood
Ford's join the Steelers Pro Shop, get it direct from
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DVE and s n R.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Back to the Point After on dv E Rogers back
throws right crossing patterness is complete and Roman Wilson's scurrying
into the end zone straight up.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
The middle of the field when he calmed that slant
to the right and zips in for his second touchdown
of the year. Yeah, that made it a fifteen point game.
I mean that almost the very definition of meaningless touchdown,
but it was a touchdown. Nonetheless, I want to remind
you to join us here on the point After every Monday,
(21:26):
we thank you for being with us. It's presented by
you neighborhood Ford Store and by the Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it Direct from the team at shop dot Steelers
dot com and alongside Matt Williamson and Mike pursued I'm
rob king. So the Steelers made an interesting decision Mike
at the left guard position. So you know they the
and and you know, listen if it works. We're thinking, boy,
(21:47):
that was that was fantastic. It didn't seem to work.
I'm not saying that this was by any means the
reason they lost the game, but going to break you
mentioned on the very first play of the game andres
Pete playing left guard and getting his first action of
the year. Guy who's got a fine NFL resume jumps
and so instead of first and ten at the forty,
(22:10):
you are first and fifteen at the thirty five. That
doesn't help when you already have troubles picking up first downs.
But the rule as Max explained it to us, and frankly,
I was unaware of this rule because it doesn't really
happen that often.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
You know, yeah, I never hear.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, it's so the rule, as Max explained it is,
if you're in the jumbo package, you can't then simply
shift to an offensive line position. I don't know if
maybe an injury changes that so anytime they wanted to
use Spencer Anderson in the jumbo package, it meant Pete
was going to be playing left guard for not only
(22:48):
that position, but if you took Spencer Anderson out or
for that play, he was also going to be playing
it on the next play. So I'm not saying that
that cost the game or anything like that. There was
that five yard penalty right from the very beginning, but
an interesting decision, an interesting way to use your personnel
instead of saying, Okay, let's put Spencer Anderson at left
guard and let's, you know, use the week with Isaac
(23:11):
c Molo out with a peck injury to prepare somebody
else to play that jumbo package.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I'm not saying right or wrong. I'm just saying I
found it interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Now, Pete only ended up playing eight snaps, and full disclosure,
I did not go back and look at his eight
snaps to determine if they were successful.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The first one wasn't or not successful. The first one wasn't.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
You know, they really love number seventy four is eligible
and that's been a real boost to the running game
for a while now. And I get how they were
you know, doggedly trying to find a way to keep
that going. I might try something different against Cincinnati at saying, well,
you can't.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Play well, and we will see if they do something different.
But you can understand, if you're playing along at home, Matt,
that you're trying to do that because it has been effective.
It's been effective not only in the running game, at
the passing game too, with an extra blocker in there,
and in the case of Spencer Anderson, an extra receiver.
As he said this week, I've got a pass from
(24:13):
Aaron Rodgers. How many people could say that that's kind
of cool?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Not many? Last night?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
No, the quick jab from.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
The corner, a couple guys for the home team, Mike
Berzuda comes in with the left hook. So, Matt, and
you point this out in your stats. So the Chargers
were number one in the league in the fewest percentage
of three and outs. Yeah, yeah, and the Steelers are
among the worst. And if we're looking for different trends,
(24:42):
and you know, I think you have certain games where
you can say, Okay, you win the game that's in
front of you, right, you don't take too many chances.
Maybe you're as Mike Tomlin has said in the past
in instances you're comfortable with punting the ball the way,
letting your defense win it for you. That's great and
I applaud that, and I think it's it's smart. But
his teams try to look for different trends, or fans
(25:04):
or whatever look for different trends. You know, is Aaron
you know, going to be talking about Aaron Rodgers this week?
Problem we go listen, man, he's been terrific. That's not
a trend. I don't think it's a one time aberration
that he wasn't as sharp as he normally. Is this
deal with not getting first downs? This deal with three
and outs? This is a trend. Now, I think we
(25:26):
can step back and kind of sift through everything that's
happened and however you've been playing stylistically or whatever, and
say this is a trend, and this is a bad trend,
and this has to stop. They had the ball for
twenty two minutes and twenty five seconds last night. That
is not a winning formula. And it's been a problem
(25:46):
all year. It's been masked in some instances, but it is.
I don't believe you can continue at this pace and
be a serious you know, playoff contender or beyond that,
it's got to be fair.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Oh it's brutal, and coming into this game, the Steelers
are basically the worst in the league in time possession.
The Chargers are about the best in the league in
time possession. And we can break it down, and frankly,
I think that needs to be you know, in terms
of three and out percentage that you mentioned, or plays
per drive allowed, et cetera, et cetera. But the bottom
line is an old school stat and it's just time
(26:22):
of possession. And they're getting destroyed in time of possession.
And usually when that happens, it's only gonna get worse.
You know, Defensive injuries are going to pop up more
and more. They're just on the field too much. I
talked about the big holes that Vaidell was running through.
I mean, all in all, I didn't think the defense
played bad at all. They had a lot of good
things going on. But those holes are going to get
(26:43):
bigger and bigger the longer you're on the field. I mean,
the worst defense is more defense, and they have to
get to the root of it. For much of the year,
I thought the defense was way to bend. But don't break.
I mean, if we had to blame the defense or
the offense for time possession woes, I would have put
more check marks on the defensive side, not the last
(27:04):
two games.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Kind of lack them overall, though, even And I understand
what you're saying, And look, you could make the argument
that the defense not getting off quickly prevents the offense.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
From getting into a rhythm. And I think there's some
truth to that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I look at it a little bit more from the
other perspective, perhaps that by not providing not having longer drives,
which has been an issue all season long, as you
pointed out in your stats, I think they're fourth worst
in the league, something along those lines of the highest
percentage of three and outs. You don't want to be
that offense. They need to be better there to supply
(27:44):
more opportunities for the defense to get rested, defend less,
and therefore defend better. So and I thought that was
really the case. Last night I was asking the Morning
Show with Mike, what'd you think of the defense? I
thought the defense was fine last night. I thought they
played well enough to win. I think this one was
queerly on the offense not being able to keep drives
alive eight percent.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
And Wes and I have talked about this on the
drive all year, and I keep using the same analogy
that you go to the doctor and you say, Doc,
my time of possession hurts, and he'll be like, Okay, well,
let's get to the root of it. That's just the symptom,
you know, I mean. And to me it was like
the doctor's going to say, it's not just one thing.
It's not like, oh, you can't run the ball or
(28:26):
you can't stop the run. It's been all the above
over the course of the year. I also want to
rewind a little bit. You know, this is not bash
Aaron Rodgers' time, but he has a reputation over his
career because he is so incredible to line of scrimmage,
and I never want to take that away, as you
both mentioned in the first segment, but his reputation is
(28:50):
he likes to check the throws. You know, he doesn't
check the run very often like when Warren and will
never know those things. But when Warren got three's in
the second half against green Bay, just looking at Arthur
Smith's history and Aaron Rodgers' history, I bet there were
a lot of play calls that came in as a
(29:10):
possible run that got checked. The passes. And I'm not
saying fans know everything. They certainly don't. But the day
when I started to do heavy Rogers search this offseason,
it was like, Wow, the Jets have the fewest rushing
attempts in the entire league last year. And I put
it out there and a million people, all Jets fans
(29:32):
are like, yeah, because Rogers want to check out of
a run all the time, you know, especially near the
goal line. And they'd say, Oh, he just wants to
pad his stats and get touchdowns, you know. But I
don't care what the reason is. And I'm not even
saying it's wrong, but if you get your time possession up,
you might have run the ball more.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, there was a third and two in the early
in the third quarter, third and two from the Pittsburgh thirty.
I can't murd if he checked or not on this one.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
It's hard to tell who's you know.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
He got sacked.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And the first two plays were Jalen Warren running for five,
Jalen Warren running for three, third and two, sack hunt.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
I just know Arthur Smith's history verse Aaron Rodgers history
in terms of play calling, run past percentage. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
along those lines. I mean, I'm with you that I
don't think that there's all of a sudden a Rogers problem.
But the more he plays in this new environment, the
(30:33):
more teams are going to get a beat on him
and they're going to try to make him hold the football.
And there are some numbers if you go over his
last four games, that he's gotten slightly progressively worse each game.
You know that I have not. I did think he
played or the offense played decorated against the Colts, but
it didn't matter. Nobody cared. We're dancing and singing on
(30:54):
Monday because they beat the Colts. So all of a sudden,
weeks ago, we were talking about, man, this defense is
the highest priced in the league and they should make
plays left and right and blah blah blah, but the
off and the offense is doing more than their job.
But now it's like, well, defense looks fixed and the
(31:15):
offense looks like the problem. Like again, it's lack them,
you know, But I'm not.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I still like the personnel on offense, Matt. Yeah, and
I'm not even my whole thing. A wide receiver going
all the way back to the springtime after they got
rid of Pickens, was what if Metcalf gets hurt exactly,
then it's going to grind no halt the way it
did with Pickens last year.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, they you know they were they were.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Making calls, they were checking a number of deals. You
weren't going to bring any guy that solved that what
if Metcalf gets hurt problem? Sure, so they didn't solve it.
So they're gonna have to try to hope he stays
healthy the rest of the year. But I like him,
I like Calvin Austin Roman Wilson is starting to show
(31:56):
some signs of life. And even if he doesn't, you
got all these type ends, Like I looked it up
last night, John new Smith has his high yardage game
this year's twenty eight yards.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
For the season.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
It adds up starting.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
What is the disconnect there?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Like they brought this guy in the catch pass, Remember
Mike Tomlin, he's not a tight end, he's a receiver
r C. Now you look at the last two games Indianapolis,
there's a catch he probably could have made and didn't.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
He's left a lot to be and then this one there's.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
A throw that he you know, a better throw, and
he probably scores a touchdown. Like the guy, the plays
are there to be made, not every down, but enough times.
I agree.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
He got eighty eight passes last year for the Dolphins.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They just got They just got to play better.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
N you know, going into this weekend, Rogers was eighth
in quarterback rating. I don't know what people think of
quarterback rating, but that's how they judge the quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
That's better than be in twenty eighth.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
That was ahead of that was ahead of Daniel Jones,
Patrick Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, Justin Herbert, and he had seventeen
touchdown passes. Are only two guys in the league who
had more touchdown passes. I'm looking at this game as
a one off.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
I am too.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I don't think he arrived.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Arrived at the stadium and a bell went off and
it was midnight and his car turned into a pubpkin.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Okay, but you know what, hold that thought because I
do have a thought that I want to follow up
on in this discussion. But we're gonna take a quick
break here in the point after presented by our neighborhood
Fords during the Steis Pro Shop get it direct from
the team at Shop dot Steelers dot com. Here on
DVE and Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Back to the Point After on DV.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
E Sweet, this is Darius Davis and Davis is hitting.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Oh he is offended by James Pierre and slammed to
the turf at Sofi Stadium, and the towels are out
and waving.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
The Pittsburgh fans love that tackle.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, thanks very much for being with us for the
Point After, presented by our neighborhood Fords to and the
Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from the team at
Shop dot Steelers dot com and Pierre again forced to
play a lot Matt and I liked his game. I've
liked his game in the last two weeks. He was
forced to play last week against Indianapolis. I thought he
looked pretty good. And we don't know Darius Slay's got
(34:17):
a concussion. We don't know what his uh, you know,
status is going to be. The Steelers moved Ramsey Jalen
Ramsey to free safety because they had more bodies at corner.
But now those bodies are starting to get thin.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
This secondary his you know, they've got to find a
way to come together and uh and be healthy and
and get a unit out there that is going to
be facing an explosive offense with the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
Yeah, I think we saw what the Bengals passing attack
and Jamar Chase in particular is capable of against his
secondary in recent memory. It's not an easy puzzle to build,
and it hasn't been all year, and going into the season,
I thought it was gonna be a great strength. Their
versatility on the back end. Ramsey can do says so
many things. Eckles an inside out player, you know, et cetera,
et cetera. I'll start with the good. I'm with you.
(35:05):
I thought Pierre, now two games in a row when
called upon, has far exceeded expectations. I think that's great.
I do think Sleigh is proving to be much more
of a zone than man guy. Porter's more of a
man than zone guy. Though. Eccles is versatile, but I
think I like him better operating outside the numbers then
(35:26):
as a slot with a two way go And I
know that he's kind of the whipping boy today. But
I didn't think his coverage against Maconkey on the big
play was particularly bad. I mean, he had some low moments.
But I don't think greatly less of Eckles that he
can't be out there or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
That was the most big league play the night by McConkey.
That was a tremendous throw. Yeah, yeah, into a minus
skill window. I thought the coverage was great.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I'll if Eckles turns around, he picks that ball off,
it whistled right past.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Or at least hits him in the face or something.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah, but I mean it was coming, like you said, Kinger,
and you know, maybe he just couldn't time it up.
Uh that you know one all one, you make a player,
you know it's you know, it's not gonna be a
layup and pick up basketball. I mean, you get you
gotta do some stuff under duress. You gotta do some
stuff when they're trying not to let you do it.
That's how big leaguers become big leaguers. And that was
(36:21):
guys on both ends of that play. That was to
play the night, and it played. It put the game away,
And if the Steelers could have made one of those
in the first three quarters, maybe that wouldn't have put
the game away.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That third and six and it was a it was
a great like at your point, I didn't think he
was open. I think a lot of quarterbacks probably don't
even throw that ball. Oh no, Herbert threw it. Uh,
it was a big play. And now the Steelers find
themselves at a crossroads, you know, and Mike, the schedule
is you know, there were there were some notions that
(36:54):
the schedule was, you know, a little more favorable at
the beginning of the year. You look at these eight
remaining games, two of them against the Ravens, you know,
up in Chicago in a couple of weeks. Cincinnati's already
beaten you.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
You have the Bills still, you have the Lions still.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
And look, there's no sense in feeling sorry for yourself
because at the end of the day, your schedule is
your schedule, and your record will dictate whether you're going
to the playoffs or not. So here it is. You know,
you're five and four. The Ravens are back in it. Heck,
the Bengals aren't out of it now. You know, the
Bengals are only two games back. As much as we
(37:33):
want to keep, you know, writing their obituary, they're not
even out of it yet. They'd be out of it.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
And I think every other division, but they're not out
of it in the AFC North, and so Steeven's got
to regroup.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
As you said before, I don't lack confidence in what
this team is capable of doing, but I will say this,
I'm gonna watch what teams do defensively against the Steelers.
And I'm not saying most teams have the personnel that
the Chargers have, But the Chargers rushed for dropped seven,
(38:05):
and not only did they get pressure, but they just
you know, the quick passing game, Aaron Rodgers. Let's get
in rhythm, let's get rid of the ball quickly, which
has been a something that the students have done all year.
I wonder if defensive coordinators are going to look at
that and say, hey, why don't we try to incorporate
a little bit more of that. Why don't we get
up on top of these receivers, don't let that quick
throw happen and take our chances from there. That's the one,
(38:27):
as you guys were talking about it last segment, that
was the one kind of takeaway that you know, I
had from that that game last night.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
I wonder if teams are going to try to do that.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
It's a it's an interesting observation and interesting point, although
I think we're gonna have to wait at least a
week to apply what the defense is doing stematically to
the Steelers because the Bengals cannot play defense.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
They cannot play defense.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
I watched that Bear Cincinnati game before the Steeler game
last night, and it's one of the most terrific defense
I've ever seen.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
It's really terrible. It's just and it may be getting worse.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
It's just off the charts awful. But their offense ever
since the second half against Green Bay Flaco's first game
when he got off I seventy one and went into battle,
they're lighting people up.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
They're scoring points on everybody.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
Now.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
They give the Jets twenty three points in the fourth
quarter and they have a fourteen point lead. No excuse me,
they had a fourteen point deficit and the Bears had
the ball with two minutes and change left. They took
the lead and they still lost.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So lost.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, Like, it's just it's catastrophic how bad they are defensively.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
So just score. I don't care.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
If you'd run Jalen Warren every time and you hold
the ball for fifty eight minutes, I don't care if
it's a passing circus, just get in the end zone
because everybody else is and going back to our they're
leaving meat on the bone. Thing that showed up on
the Thursday night in Cincinnati there were Metcalf got the
(40:03):
ball ripped out of his hand, false start on the
touch portster on fourth down when.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
They're gonna go for it and try to get a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Probably leaving out a couple. But you know, they got
thirty one in that game. They needed to get more
and they could have got more.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Could you go more?
Speaker 5 (40:17):
And one thing though, Rob, I'm not sure if you
were even going down this road. But in terms of
how defenses that are actually good are gonna play against
the Steelers going forward, I do think that, and I've
been kind of saying this all year that the lack
of true downfield passing for the Steelers is something that's
gonna be exposed to some point. I just don't think
(40:39):
you can nickel and die and get it out of
your hands Outsmart everyone up and down the field over
and over and over. Their explosive play stuff is really
really poor. And I'm not even saying you have to
hit bombs and moonballs from Russell Wilson to Pickens type thing.
But I do think your intermediate and deeper passing are
gonna have to be a little bit more something you
(41:00):
can count on.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I don't want to you know, listen, different quarterbacks, uh,
different offenses. But the year the Steelers started eleven or no,
I believe it was eleven or O right, Mike, Uh yeah, uh,
they followed a similar success, a similar game plan, uh,
only in the regard that Ben Roethlisberger was getting the
(41:22):
ball out quickly and then defenses kind of started to
constrict a little bit and that stopped working and the
Steelers were kind of limping as they went into the
playoffs and was they were I believe a won and
done team that year. In fact, I know they were
one and done team that year. I just that that
worries me a little bit that you've got to find
(41:44):
You've got to find different ways now perhaps to attack
and listen, you know, if you're a if you're a
team that you know, like like Mike tom Andoy says,
you have red paint painted or barn red. You know,
if if you're a defense it doesn't have a four
man rush and can't roll seven guys up and coverage.
You're not gonna do it right. You can't just copy
what somebody else does. Hey, Uh, I saw Mike Tyson
(42:07):
knock this guy out. Uh, I'm gonna try to knock
this guy out. Well, I mean, you know, you got
to be who you are to some degree as well.
I just, you know, a game like last night where just,
you know, nothing seemed to be rhythmic. I don't want
to make a bigger thing of it than it is.
My temptation is to say, uh, you know, hey, wash
(42:29):
your hands, let's go, let's go get the Bengals, Let's
let's try to get better. Let's try to get better
in the areas that have hurt us, you know, namely
three and outs, and let's go. But I do, you know,
I do wonder if teams will say, maybe we should
try a little bit more of that.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
So I get the red paint thing, and I cite
it often myself. But the prettiest barns aren't just one color,
you know. I mean, the ones that catch your attention
have this beautiful male male pouch thing on the side,
and the windows are a different color, and they have
shutters and their different colors you know. I mean, you
(43:04):
can't just be a Red Barn. You're I can beat
my homes with just being a Red Barn.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Right, Well, you're playing him this week.
Speaker 5 (43:13):
Eventually you gonna run into somebody in the playoffs, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, But honestly, like this week's different.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
I mean, of all the things that were said, h
after the game last night, Rogers said don't ride the wave.
Before that, he had said don't ride the roller coaster.
I mean, look at this crazy goofy league. Oh, I'm
just I'm not projecting what their final record is going
to be today because I have no idea. You have
no idea what it's gonna look like in two weeks.
(43:38):
You have no idea what it's gonna look like in
a month.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
Speaking of which, my phone just blew up. Joe Burrow
is returning to practice this week.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I saw that.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Wow, what well limited capacity? Yeah, playing anytime soon, but.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
Throw that out there.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
You know, look at the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
They beat Kansas City and they're they're going all the
way and then they get killed by Miami.
Speaker 5 (44:00):
It's really hard to I know.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Somebody explained that, yeh, Like, yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
I think it's obvious. Who's bad. I don't know who's good.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's always in that group though, you know, right right
with the Saints. Who you know, who are the really
bad teams? Well, the Giants are awful. They almost pulled
off an up they oh the Giants. Yeah, I did
not know that the Saints are terrible, right, Uh? Well
they beat they beat a Carolina team, and we're like,
wait a minute, Carolina is kind of interesting now.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
They interested me a good deal less.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And you know, coming off that Monday night win against
the Chiefs, right you you eked out a you know,
you lost sixteen to fourteen. You get sluggish start, you
couldn't get it. They got rolled by the Dolphins. It's
the most bizarre year. I mean, we're looking up right now,
who are the best teams in football? Is it New
(44:51):
England or Denver or Indianapolis or.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
How many teams? How many prognosticators okay, the Rams maybe?
How many prognosticators would have had any of those four
teams in your top five at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
Of the season.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
No, I totally hear you.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
They always say it's a week to week league, and
that always sounded like cliche.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
Is yeah, yeah, it's it's true this year, It's and
spoilers are a week to week team. Yeah, that's pretty clear.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yep, and uh, let's let's hope they can get it
figured out in time to beat Cincinnati and improve the
six and four big game coming up at home on Sunday.
We thank you for being with us and the Point
After for Matt Williams and four Mike pursued it for
our producer at the Controls, Justin Miller. I'm rob King
(45:42):
The Point After presented by you Neighborhood Ford Store and
the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from the team
at shop dot Steelers dot com. Thanks for listening on
WDVEE and Steelers Nation Radio.
Hell, everybody, Welcome to the point after, presented by your
neighborhood Forwards storing the students pro shop get it direct
from the team at shop dot Steelers dot com alongside
Matt Williamson and Mike pursuita I'm rob king following this year.
There's twenty five to ten loss last night in La
at Sofi Stadium in a game in which this twenty
(00:27):
five to three Steer's got a late touchdown and make
it twenty five to ten. Just not a good game.
Steelers did not play well. Mike Tomlin talked about it
after the game. Aaron Rodgers talked about it after the game,
and now Mike and Mad are going to talk about it.
So Mike, let's start with you. Your instant takeaways from
this twenty five to ten loss to the Chargers that
drops the Steelers to five and four.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
A little bit more involved than instant.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Had a chance to sleep on it for three hours
and then doing the morning show today.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Congratulations on a good night's sleep.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Anyway, go ahead, no problem, you know, during the morning
show today and then no waiting to do this program
with you two find professionals. I had a chance to
go back and look at a lot of the game,
and I'm gonna put the vast majority of it on
Aaron Rodgers. I know it is a team game, and
I know the quarterback often gets too much credit and
too much blame, but he fled out stunk last night.
(01:23):
And I don't care about the coverage or the rush.
There were plays to be made. I know you can't
make all of them, but you also can't make none
of them. And you know, they brought Aaron Rodgers year
and DK Metcalf here to make beautiful music together, and
it's not happening often enough. And I know he gets
a lot of attention from the defense. But there were
(01:45):
one on ones. There was a one on one with
a safety on the second possession of the game and
the ball fell incomplete. That can't happen. There was a
deep ball under throw to Calvin Austin. There was a
throw to John Smith that could have been a touchdown
that he made. The Rogers made way more difficult than
it needed to be, and Smith ended up coming down
with the ball that got further reviewed into an incompletion.
(02:07):
He missed gain Well in the flat before he missed
Metcalf at the pylon.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I mean, on and on again.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Can't make them all, but got to make way more
than they made, which was pretty much none.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I think the only one I would quibble with it
would have been a nice play to make. I think
all the other plays you're talking about, Aaron Rodgers normally makes, right.
I mean, you know the Johnny Smith overthrow Calvin Austin,
it needed to be another foot further. Calvin had about
a yard and a half of separation and.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
He's gone, right. I mean, that's that's a touchdown.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, I think I think John Smith probably, you know,
I think there's a good chance john who scores a
touchdown there. I remember that was a drive that wound
up with the miss field goal, if I'm not mistaken,
And so he came in with no points and a
chance to maybe dictate a little bit. The one where
he rolled left to broken play and threw back across
right to metcalf with molding on him.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
That's a tough play. I mean, that's a that.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
But I'm quibbling now because I largely agree that their
throws at Aaron Rodgers normally makes. We've seen him make
him all year long, and for whatever reason, he didn't
make him and.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Let me say, Rob, I think he'll make them again.
I'm not down on a yea yet.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
No.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
No, I've been a big fan.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You know, he got here when he got here for
mini camp in the springtime, and I've become a little
more infatuated with watching him go about his business each
and every day. And I think he's been a phenomenal
player this year. I think he's been a phenomenal teammate.
But last night he stunk, and you know, shake it off,
(03:36):
go back to work and be better against the Bengals.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Matt, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
I thought there was a lot of meat left on
the bone early in the game that the Steelers didn't
take advantage of. Boswell missed a kick, there was a
punt muffed, there was Echoles really struggling against Smaconkey. I
thought there were some holes that Vaidell ran through way
too many that were way too big. Steel running game
(04:02):
was fine. I didn't have a real problem with the
steel running game overall, but I would I would have
leaned into Warren earlier. There were some coaching things on
both sides of the ball, the majority of which scheme wise,
that I thought favored Harbaugh's staff more so than Tomlins.
But I'm with Mike. I mean, I really think you
lose that game and it goes as poorly as it
(04:23):
did because one phase, and that's the Steelers passing game
was clearly not close to being even league average, and
I think Rogers is the most to blame in that group.
The protection wasn't great. Boy, it seemed like a need
for a second receiver was greater than ever. Metcalf's not
the contested catch receiver that some people think he is
(04:44):
and maybe the organization think he is, and teams are
doing everything possible to you know, double him as much
as possible and take away the Steeler quick game. But again,
if rarely do I and I don't think Mike does
either blame one guy, and it's not on highly on
one dude, but quarterbacks real important. I mean, if if
your hockey goalie doesn't stop any that night, then you
(05:05):
don't win.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know I will, Okay, So let me let me
follow up and ask you about something, because again, when
I'm calling the game, I rarely watched the replay. You know,
Aaron Rodgers was asked in I thought his postgame comments,
by the way, were right in the money. And I'm
going to try to unpack a little bit of that
with you here, Matt. So, I rarely watch replays, right,
(05:30):
I'm getting ready for the next Yeah. Yeah, So it
looked to me like there were some times where Aaron
Rodgers stepped up into the pocket where he didn't need to.
I thought maybe this, I thought, so the safety was
one of those times. Having said that, there were also
you know early on the Seahawks, you know, won some
(05:53):
battles and put Rogers back on his heels on the opening,
the very first drive of the game. You know, he
was put back on his heels because of a good
pass rush. So I thought that maybe some of that
pass rush a little bit, maybe with self inflicted which
happens with every quarterback, which seemed to happen last night
and again without watching the replays, and Rogers said, I'm
(06:14):
gonna have to go back and look at it. I
really don't know if that's if that's what I did.
And I'm asking you because I really don't know if
that's what he did either. It's what it felt like
a little bit. The other thing is you had one
of your stats was they the Chargers rush six or
more at at the lowest percentage in the league three
percent of the time.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
They didn't do it last night. I don't remember a
single time in which they did it. Last night.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
They blitzed once with five or with six blitzed period.
I don't know how many they brought on that one,
but per dexgen stats or whatever.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
They post on, yeah, that's well. And here's the thing.
They are.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Supplying a decent amount of pressure, a good amount of pressure.
They came in with a solid number of sacks, twenty
one sacks I think they had as a team, and
that was you know, Khalil Mack has gotten back and
been healthy, so he's going to add to that a
Dafe oh way, you picked him up from the Ravens.
He had four sacks in four games. He's going to
add to that. TWI polo too, and we talked about
(07:12):
this last week. Matt toy Poloto brings you something. Bud
Dupree got his first sack. Uh egg boyd b on
the inside had three sacks going into this game. When
and because the other thing Aaron Rodgers said in the
postgame comas was there weren't a lot of guys open
well when you could rush for and get pressure and
drop seven in coverage. Yeah, there shouldn't be a lot
(07:33):
of guys open, and I thought that was you know,
as we're talking about this, could Rogers have been sharper? Absolutely,
he said so last night. He misgrows he normally makes.
But it felt like they got pressure with four drop
seven And that's a tough way to make a living
if you're an NFL offense.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
On thousand percent And you said a lot of really
good stuff there, And I love that we're actually going
to give credit to the opponent because there aren't many
people that do what we do on Mondays after a
Steeler loss that recognize the other team might be okay too.
You knows nothing to do with it whatsoever. I think too. He,
by the way, is i'd never say his last name
(08:12):
on purpose, is a tremendous young player. I knew that's
your style. Let's set you up for that.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
And their edge guys in general, I thought were really
really good. And I don't think it's a unique game plan,
but I definitely think bringing four and making Rogers hold
the ball a little more. And I have not watched
the All twenty two. When we record this, it kind
of screws up my schedule a little bit, but it
sure looked like they were not only dropping seven, but
(08:38):
really focusing on the short zones, you know, the make
taking away the quick game, you know, with with someone
over the top of Metcalf take away the quick game.
And you know, Rogers time to throw was a lot
higher than usual. He was trying to buy time in
the pocket. And your original question was, you know, how
did he kind of handle that? I thought he was
(09:00):
quite poor at it. Collinsworth was doing the color and
you know and saying, man, he's so dangerous when he's
on the move and rolling around and making plays, and
I didn't really see it that way. I thought he's
a lot more, you know, a lot better when he's
surgical and on time, and you know, as opposed to
ad libbing, you can do both over a Steeler stint
(09:20):
here though, but he often ran himself into pressure. Maybe
that's bad luck, but I also think the early pressure
that the Chargers produced against him affected him for the
rest of the game. And it wasn't as bad start
to finish. And Mike and I were talking about this
before the air we were on the air. It wasn't
like he was under pressure over and over and over,
(09:41):
and that they couldn't block a soul. If you rewatch
the game, it's not as harsh on the protection. I mean,
you were saying this might more than that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, it's it's almost like a Pavlovian response around here
with things don't go well.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Your line, your line, the on line, and Matt.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
To your point about Collinsworth, he was saying that Rogers
was stepping up and the Chargers were almost anticipating that,
like the edge guys were getting a little push and
then they were coming off. I don't know, as an
offensive tackle what you're supposed to do when you're retreating
and trying to block a guy and then he starts
running away from.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
You, back towards the lion Scraper.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, I mean, I guess you can chase him.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
But Rogers was asked about that after the games that
I got to look at it and see, but I
think they came up with a trend that he does
step up.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Now.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
He's made some plays this year getting out on the wing,
either the playoffs, the play action boot or just escaping
right or left, but this seemed to be mostly trying
to go up the middle and yeah, Rob, I thought
he looked uncomfortable in the pocket all night. I don't
know why that was, but I've seen him look a
lot steadier. I would not say that he was commanding
(10:48):
the offense last night, and that's probably an explanation as
to why so many of his throws were off target.
The only one I saw him really kind of flinch
on was the one that gained well in the flat
before the one two metcalf at the pylon in early
in the fourth quarter when it was still a game.
I thought he just kind of saw the pressure coming
(11:09):
there and sort of, yeah, you know, got rid of
it and sort of turtled.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, so I'm going to get back to that sequence
in a moment. But just statistically, just so people know,
So the Chargers hit Rogers five times, they sacked him
three times. The Steelers hit Herbert nine times and sacked
him five times. By the way, that's about average for Herbert.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
They were six and three coming into the game. Herbert
had been hit eighty times. That's the most in the
in the NFL. So that's about nine times a game.
Steelers got a nine times, ste has sacked him five times.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
Rob can throw one thing in that's actually kind of
a plot. So Herbert's average time to throw was two
point two to two seconds. We've seen some low ones
over the years, but that's insanely low. I mean, that's like,
that'll be the lowest in the league. I bet or
bottom two. And I'm not a big Like when I
do Matt stats, I never put pressures in there because
(12:13):
I kind of looked at them like, eh, sometimes a
pressure ends up in a touchdown, you know. But they
had thirty pressures in this game against him, despite him
throwing the ball in two point two seconds, like.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
He threw it sideways after time? Is that right?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
I mean, sera pass rush was pretty awesome against the
terrible oil line.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But well, the other thing is is that he was
able to find release fouls, right, So the Chargers, I thought,
got a decent push and Rogers, you know you're talking
about this before, couldn't get into the short rhythm passing.
The Chargers took that away, you know. He said after
the game, there weren't a lot of open guys. That's
(12:51):
what it felt like to me. Yeah, he missed some throws,
he said, Look, I missed some throws. There also weren't
a lot open guys. That's again from where I was standing,
that's what it felt like to me. So when I
look at the sequence, Mike of you know, when they
went forward on fourth down and failed to get it right,
and they're they're trying to get themselves back in the game.
So you pitched the ball to warn off the right side.
(13:12):
He picks up four. Now you have second and sixth
the ball, it's the ten yard line.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Us check here, king, Are you allowed to run the
ball again? Here?
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So they yes, yes, but they had a run called
I'm I'm without having talked to Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, this was the slant to Uhcala.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
That yeah, they had to pitch right called You know what,
if we're going to spend our season lauding Aaron Rodgers
and understanding that it's the line of scrimmage. He's one
of the best in NFL history, and he sees something
that he likes and it doesn't work out.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Look, man, you know you got it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I think you have to take that as a fan
and as a team. He thought he had a slant
to metcalf and left side in single coverage, and he did,
but Bud Dupree didn't move bud Dupree, who you expect
to rush from the weak side, especially with nobody in
front of him. You know you're inviting him to rush.
Bud stood there, his arms in the air. It's a
(14:16):
great guy in the passing lane. I'm sorry, but I
don't want Aaron Rodgers. If Aaron Rodgers, with his experience
and his talent, thinks he's got a slant the DK
metcalf that's going to result in the first down or
a touchdown, I don't want to take that away from him.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
That's a great point. That's a great point.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And uh, you know I was being a little snarly,
uh the ball thing there, But think of that play
for a minute. They had Scornic on the left side
of the formation and they motioned him to the right.
That's right because the run is supposed to go to
the right. As Rogers pointed out afterwards, bud Dupree has
a clear shot to the quarterback and he doesn't take it.
(14:53):
He's been in the lake how many years eleven? I'm
gonna guess this is the first time he's got a
clear shot to the quarterback and.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You take it. Yeah, And it ruined to play so yeah,
so good on them, Good on them.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You know, if that's a young quarterback, you tell him
you're not you're not checking out of that play. Pitch
it to Warren. We got three plays to get six yards.
Pitch it to him. You know, you're getting cussed out.
But it's Aaron Rodgers. He makes that. When he makes
that decision, it normally works out. This time it didn't.
And then you know, so this is like a microcosm
(15:27):
to me of the game. That four play sequence. You're
running the ball pretty well and then the pass play
doesn't work out, and then you know, a poor throw
under duress to gain Well in the left flat. You know,
if that's completed, if game Well doesn't make another yard
from where he catches it, it's fourth and one.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And he's gonna make it and maybe score. Right, it
would have taken a superhuman play, I thought, by the
linebacker Henley, who was in chase mode and he's got
to catch Gainwell in the open field and get him.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Down on the ground.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
I don't like this.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
If it wasn't even of it was just a throw
a little off the mark. The worst case is fourth
and one, right, and then on you know, the play
and people were people were talking about, well, I was
a poor decision to throw it to Metcalf, and Rogers
said it was a poor decision to throw out to
the Metcalf frankly, you know, I've seen that play a
(16:19):
couple of times. It didn't look to me like anybody
was open. That's what it looked like to me.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
I mean, at that point, the other choice thrown in
the seats. That's not the right movie, right.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Right right, I shouldn't go to Metcalf. Who are you
going to go to? Nobody was open, so that I
think that was your ran the ball pretty effectively. A
pass thing didn't work out, a throw was off the mark,
and then nobody was open. That's like that four plays.
I'm like, if I have to describe the game offensively,
that was kind of it, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
You know, and that last play in particular, I got
no problem going to Metcalf. Now, Rogers said he should
have either gone to the other side of the field
or thrown a back shoulder, which.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
I thought the throw might have been a back shoulder,
and Metcalf didn't the jost.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'd have been. I thought it was on the inside.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
It wasn't a good throw.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I would have been in favor of a back shoulder
or a jump ball. Now I've heard and even Rogers
said it was double coverage. Yeah, the safety was on
the near hash at the start of the play, but
it wasn't double coverage. He never got there. It was
one on one metcalf against cam Hart. Cam Heart's a
nice prospect. He's a second year player out of Notre Dame.
DK metcalf is DK metcalf. I'm six yards away from
(17:30):
the end zone. I got Aaron Rodgers throwing a DK metcalf.
I like my matchup against cam Harten. They won that one,
but I think they won that one because it was a.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Poor throw.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
In a long line of poor throws. You make half
those plays, Kingar. And with the scores different, the game
plays out different, they defend different, and more importantly, they
have to run their offense different. I think, get him
out of that run, run, throw sideways, shell and maybe
make him take some chances and expose Herbert even more
than he was exposed. And maybe it's a really different game.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
So Matt, I think Mike is thinking along the same
lines that I am. So you know, you have these
massive turnover games, and that's great, that's fantastic. That can't
be the only way your offense succeeds. It can't and
(18:24):
when you aren't dictating to a team. Look, there's a
reason the Chargers got rid of the ball quickly. We
saw that because the Steelers have an elite pass rush
and they have injured players. They're down their top three
tackles from the beginning of the season, top three tackles,
two of whom you've invested in a high pick and all,
and a lot of money in Slater who never never
(18:45):
played this year because he got hurt in the preseason.
So you know, you're trying to protect against that with Herbert. Well,
if you you know, instead of it being three to two,
if it's and it could very well have been fourteen,
not thing it really could have been. If it's fourteen, nothing,
Now those sat Now, maybe Herbert can't just hold it
(19:07):
for two point two seconds. Now he's got to hold
it that extra beat longer. Now you get the stripsack.
Now you get the turnover. Look, turnovers happen at any time,
but that's you know, I don't know, I haven't seen
a study, but I'm guessing the vast majority of turnovers
happen when a quarterback is under duress. So we can
talk about interceptions and strip sacks and that kind he's
(19:28):
got to hold it for that beat longer. Well, you
never forced even as good as the pass rush was,
you never forced Herbert to hold it that beat longer
because you never got the lead and dictated the game
to the Chargers, and therefore you didn't get the turnovers
that you were hoping to get in this game against
a team that was minus four in the turnover margin.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
One thousand, thousand percent. I mean, game script, game flow greatly,
greatly favored the Chargers, and I give them credit for that, though.
I mean, Harbor saw, much like Tomlin, understands those things
extremely extremely well that this is going to have to
be a rock fight. This is not going to be
a beautiful throw it all over the field for either
(20:10):
one of these teams. But I'm with you. I mean, obviously,
if things went different early in that game, and one
of the first things I said on today's show was
they did leave a lot of meat on the bone,
you know, dropped an interception, you know, things like that.
There were plays to be made in the first quarter
in particular, don't full.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Start on the first play of the game when they
give you the ball.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
On the right, right right on the forty I mean
it's like, right, this is going to be great.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, I want to get to that because that
was part of an interesting decision that Steelers made as
well going into this game. We'll get to that when
we continue in the Point After, presented by your neighborhood
Ford's join the Steelers Pro Shop, get it direct from
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com here on
DVE and s n R.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Back to the Point After on dv E Rogers back
throws right crossing patterness is complete and Roman Wilson's scurrying
into the end zone straight up.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
The middle of the field when he calmed that slant
to the right and zips in for his second touchdown
of the year. Yeah, that made it a fifteen point game.
I mean that almost the very definition of meaningless touchdown,
but it was a touchdown. Nonetheless, I want to remind
you to join us here on the point After every Monday,
(21:26):
we thank you for being with us. It's presented by
you neighborhood Ford Store and by the Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it Direct from the team at shop dot Steelers
dot com and alongside Matt Williamson and Mike pursued I'm
rob king. So the Steelers made an interesting decision Mike
at the left guard position. So you know they the
and and you know, listen if it works. We're thinking, boy,
(21:47):
that was that was fantastic. It didn't seem to work.
I'm not saying that this was by any means the
reason they lost the game, but going to break you
mentioned on the very first play of the game andres
Pete playing left guard and getting his first action of
the year. Guy who's got a fine NFL resume jumps
and so instead of first and ten at the forty,
(22:10):
you are first and fifteen at the thirty five. That
doesn't help when you already have troubles picking up first downs.
But the rule as Max explained it to us, and frankly,
I was unaware of this rule because it doesn't really
happen that often.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
You know, yeah, I never hear.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, it's so the rule, as Max explained it is,
if you're in the jumbo package, you can't then simply
shift to an offensive line position. I don't know if
maybe an injury changes that so anytime they wanted to
use Spencer Anderson in the jumbo package, it meant Pete
was going to be playing left guard for not only
(22:48):
that position, but if you took Spencer Anderson out or
for that play, he was also going to be playing
it on the next play. So I'm not saying that
that cost the game or anything like that. There was
that five yard penalty right from the very beginning, but
an interesting decision, an interesting way to use your personnel
instead of saying, Okay, let's put Spencer Anderson at left
guard and let's, you know, use the week with Isaac
(23:11):
c Molo out with a peck injury to prepare somebody
else to play that jumbo package.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I'm not saying right or wrong. I'm just saying I
found it interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Now, Pete only ended up playing eight snaps, and full disclosure,
I did not go back and look at his eight
snaps to determine if they were successful.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The first one wasn't or not successful. The first one wasn't.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
You know, they really love number seventy four is eligible
and that's been a real boost to the running game
for a while now. And I get how they were
you know, doggedly trying to find a way to keep
that going. I might try something different against Cincinnati at saying, well,
you can't.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Play well, and we will see if they do something different.
But you can understand, if you're playing along at home, Matt,
that you're trying to do that because it has been effective.
It's been effective not only in the running game, at
the passing game too, with an extra blocker in there,
and in the case of Spencer Anderson, an extra receiver.
As he said this week, I've got a pass from
(24:13):
Aaron Rodgers. How many people could say that that's kind
of cool?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Not many? Last night?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
No, the quick jab from.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
The corner, a couple guys for the home team, Mike
Berzuda comes in with the left hook. So, Matt, and
you point this out in your stats. So the Chargers
were number one in the league in the fewest percentage
of three and outs. Yeah, yeah, and the Steelers are
among the worst. And if we're looking for different trends,
(24:42):
and you know, I think you have certain games where
you can say, Okay, you win the game that's in
front of you, right, you don't take too many chances.
Maybe you're as Mike Tomlin has said in the past
in instances you're comfortable with punting the ball the way,
letting your defense win it for you. That's great and
I applaud that, and I think it's it's smart. But
his teams try to look for different trends, or fans
(25:04):
or whatever look for different trends. You know, is Aaron
you know, going to be talking about Aaron Rodgers this week?
Problem we go listen, man, he's been terrific. That's not
a trend. I don't think it's a one time aberration
that he wasn't as sharp as he normally. Is this
deal with not getting first downs? This deal with three
and outs? This is a trend. Now, I think we
(25:26):
can step back and kind of sift through everything that's
happened and however you've been playing stylistically or whatever, and
say this is a trend, and this is a bad trend,
and this has to stop. They had the ball for
twenty two minutes and twenty five seconds last night. That
is not a winning formula. And it's been a problem
(25:46):
all year. It's been masked in some instances, but it is.
I don't believe you can continue at this pace and
be a serious you know, playoff contender or beyond that,
it's got to be fair.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Oh it's brutal, and coming into this game, the Steelers
are basically the worst in the league in time possession.
The Chargers are about the best in the league in
time possession. And we can break it down, and frankly,
I think that needs to be you know, in terms
of three and out percentage that you mentioned, or plays
per drive allowed, et cetera, et cetera. But the bottom
line is an old school stat and it's just time
(26:22):
of possession. And they're getting destroyed in time of possession.
And usually when that happens, it's only gonna get worse.
You know, Defensive injuries are going to pop up more
and more. They're just on the field too much. I
talked about the big holes that Vaidell was running through.
I mean, all in all, I didn't think the defense
played bad at all. They had a lot of good
things going on. But those holes are going to get
(26:43):
bigger and bigger the longer you're on the field. I mean,
the worst defense is more defense, and they have to
get to the root of it. For much of the year,
I thought the defense was way to bend. But don't break.
I mean, if we had to blame the defense or
the offense for time possession woes, I would have put
more check marks on the defensive side, not the last
(27:04):
two games.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Kind of lack them overall, though, even And I understand
what you're saying, And look, you could make the argument
that the defense not getting off quickly prevents the offense.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
From getting into a rhythm. And I think there's some
truth to that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I look at it a little bit more from the
other perspective, perhaps that by not providing not having longer drives,
which has been an issue all season long, as you
pointed out in your stats, I think they're fourth worst
in the league, something along those lines of the highest
percentage of three and outs. You don't want to be
that offense. They need to be better there to supply
(27:44):
more opportunities for the defense to get rested, defend less,
and therefore defend better. So and I thought that was
really the case. Last night I was asking the Morning
Show with Mike, what'd you think of the defense? I
thought the defense was fine last night. I thought they
played well enough to win. I think this one was
queerly on the offense not being able to keep drives
alive eight percent.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
And Wes and I have talked about this on the
drive all year, and I keep using the same analogy
that you go to the doctor and you say, Doc,
my time of possession hurts, and he'll be like, Okay, well,
let's get to the root of it. That's just the symptom,
you know, I mean. And to me it was like
the doctor's going to say, it's not just one thing.
It's not like, oh, you can't run the ball or
(28:26):
you can't stop the run. It's been all the above
over the course of the year. I also want to
rewind a little bit. You know, this is not bash
Aaron Rodgers' time, but he has a reputation over his
career because he is so incredible to line of scrimmage,
and I never want to take that away, as you
both mentioned in the first segment, but his reputation is
(28:50):
he likes to check the throws. You know, he doesn't
check the run very often like when Warren and will
never know those things. But when Warren got three's in
the second half against green Bay, just looking at Arthur
Smith's history and Aaron Rodgers' history, I bet there were
a lot of play calls that came in as a
(29:10):
possible run that got checked. The passes. And I'm not
saying fans know everything. They certainly don't. But the day
when I started to do heavy Rogers search this offseason,
it was like, Wow, the Jets have the fewest rushing
attempts in the entire league last year. And I put
it out there and a million people, all Jets fans
(29:32):
are like, yeah, because Rogers want to check out of
a run all the time, you know, especially near the
goal line. And they'd say, Oh, he just wants to
pad his stats and get touchdowns, you know. But I
don't care what the reason is. And I'm not even
saying it's wrong, but if you get your time possession up,
you might have run the ball more.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, there was a third and two in the early
in the third quarter, third and two from the Pittsburgh thirty.
I can't murd if he checked or not on this one.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
It's hard to tell who's you know.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
He got sacked.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And the first two plays were Jalen Warren running for five,
Jalen Warren running for three, third and two, sack hunt.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
I just know Arthur Smith's history verse Aaron Rodgers history
in terms of play calling, run past percentage. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
along those lines. I mean, I'm with you that I
don't think that there's all of a sudden a Rogers problem.
But the more he plays in this new environment, the
(30:33):
more teams are going to get a beat on him
and they're going to try to make him hold the football.
And there are some numbers if you go over his
last four games, that he's gotten slightly progressively worse each game.
You know that I have not. I did think he
played or the offense played decorated against the Colts, but
it didn't matter. Nobody cared. We're dancing and singing on
(30:54):
Monday because they beat the Colts. So all of a sudden,
weeks ago, we were talking about, man, this defense is
the highest priced in the league and they should make
plays left and right and blah blah blah, but the
off and the offense is doing more than their job.
But now it's like, well, defense looks fixed and the
(31:15):
offense looks like the problem. Like again, it's lack them,
you know, But I'm not.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I still like the personnel on offense, Matt. Yeah, and
I'm not even my whole thing. A wide receiver going
all the way back to the springtime after they got
rid of Pickens, was what if Metcalf gets hurt exactly,
then it's going to grind no halt the way it
did with Pickens last year.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, they you know they were they were.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Making calls, they were checking a number of deals. You
weren't going to bring any guy that solved that what
if Metcalf gets hurt problem? Sure, so they didn't solve it.
So they're gonna have to try to hope he stays
healthy the rest of the year. But I like him,
I like Calvin Austin Roman Wilson is starting to show
(31:56):
some signs of life. And even if he doesn't, you
got all these type ends, Like I looked it up
last night, John new Smith has his high yardage game
this year's twenty eight yards.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
For the season.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
It adds up starting.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
What is the disconnect there?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Like they brought this guy in the catch pass, Remember
Mike Tomlin, he's not a tight end, he's a receiver
r C. Now you look at the last two games Indianapolis,
there's a catch he probably could have made and didn't.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
He's left a lot to be and then this one there's.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
A throw that he you know, a better throw, and
he probably scores a touchdown. Like the guy, the plays
are there to be made, not every down, but enough times.
I agree.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
He got eighty eight passes last year for the Dolphins.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They just got They just got to play better.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
N you know, going into this weekend, Rogers was eighth
in quarterback rating. I don't know what people think of
quarterback rating, but that's how they judge the quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
That's better than be in twenty eighth.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
That was ahead of that was ahead of Daniel Jones,
Patrick Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, Justin Herbert, and he had seventeen
touchdown passes. Are only two guys in the league who
had more touchdown passes. I'm looking at this game as
a one off.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
I am too.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I don't think he arrived.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Arrived at the stadium and a bell went off and
it was midnight and his car turned into a pubpkin.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Okay, but you know what, hold that thought because I
do have a thought that I want to follow up
on in this discussion. But we're gonna take a quick
break here in the point after presented by our neighborhood
Fords during the Steis Pro Shop get it direct from
the team at Shop dot Steelers dot com. Here on
DVE and Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Back to the Point After on DV.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
E Sweet, this is Darius Davis and Davis is hitting.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Oh he is offended by James Pierre and slammed to
the turf at Sofi Stadium, and the towels are out
and waving.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
The Pittsburgh fans love that tackle.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, thanks very much for being with us for the
Point After, presented by our neighborhood Fords to and the
Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from the team at
Shop dot Steelers dot com and Pierre again forced to
play a lot Matt and I liked his game. I've
liked his game in the last two weeks. He was
forced to play last week against Indianapolis. I thought he
looked pretty good. And we don't know Darius Slay's got
(34:17):
a concussion. We don't know what his uh, you know,
status is going to be. The Steelers moved Ramsey Jalen
Ramsey to free safety because they had more bodies at corner.
But now those bodies are starting to get thin.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
This secondary his you know, they've got to find a
way to come together and uh and be healthy and
and get a unit out there that is going to
be facing an explosive offense with the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
Yeah, I think we saw what the Bengals passing attack
and Jamar Chase in particular is capable of against his
secondary in recent memory. It's not an easy puzzle to build,
and it hasn't been all year, and going into the season,
I thought it was gonna be a great strength. Their
versatility on the back end. Ramsey can do says so
many things. Eckles an inside out player, you know, et cetera,
et cetera. I'll start with the good. I'm with you.
(35:05):
I thought Pierre, now two games in a row when
called upon, has far exceeded expectations. I think that's great.
I do think Sleigh is proving to be much more
of a zone than man guy. Porter's more of a
man than zone guy. Though. Eccles is versatile, but I
think I like him better operating outside the numbers then
(35:26):
as a slot with a two way go And I
know that he's kind of the whipping boy today. But
I didn't think his coverage against Maconkey on the big
play was particularly bad. I mean, he had some low moments.
But I don't think greatly less of Eckles that he
can't be out there or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
That was the most big league play the night by McConkey.
That was a tremendous throw. Yeah, yeah, into a minus
skill window. I thought the coverage was great.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I'll if Eckles turns around, he picks that ball off,
it whistled right past.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Or at least hits him in the face or something.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah, but I mean it was coming, like you said, Kinger,
and you know, maybe he just couldn't time it up.
Uh that you know one all one, you make a player,
you know it's you know, it's not gonna be a
layup and pick up basketball. I mean, you get you
gotta do some stuff under duress. You gotta do some
stuff when they're trying not to let you do it.
That's how big leaguers become big leaguers. And that was
(36:21):
guys on both ends of that play. That was to
play the night, and it played. It put the game away,
And if the Steelers could have made one of those
in the first three quarters, maybe that wouldn't have put
the game away.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That third and six and it was a it was
a great like at your point, I didn't think he
was open. I think a lot of quarterbacks probably don't
even throw that ball. Oh no, Herbert threw it. Uh,
it was a big play. And now the Steelers find
themselves at a crossroads, you know, and Mike, the schedule
is you know, there were there were some notions that
(36:54):
the schedule was, you know, a little more favorable at
the beginning of the year. You look at these eight
remaining games, two of them against the Ravens, you know,
up in Chicago in a couple of weeks. Cincinnati's already
beaten you.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
You have the Bills still, you have the Lions still.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
And look, there's no sense in feeling sorry for yourself
because at the end of the day, your schedule is
your schedule, and your record will dictate whether you're going
to the playoffs or not. So here it is. You know,
you're five and four. The Ravens are back in it. Heck,
the Bengals aren't out of it now. You know, the
Bengals are only two games back. As much as we
(37:33):
want to keep, you know, writing their obituary, they're not
even out of it yet. They'd be out of it.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
And I think every other division, but they're not out
of it in the AFC North, and so Steeven's got
to regroup.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
As you said before, I don't lack confidence in what
this team is capable of doing, but I will say this,
I'm gonna watch what teams do defensively against the Steelers.
And I'm not saying most teams have the personnel that
the Chargers have, But the Chargers rushed for dropped seven,
(38:05):
and not only did they get pressure, but they just
you know, the quick passing game, Aaron Rodgers. Let's get
in rhythm, let's get rid of the ball quickly, which
has been a something that the students have done all year.
I wonder if defensive coordinators are going to look at
that and say, hey, why don't we try to incorporate
a little bit more of that. Why don't we get
up on top of these receivers, don't let that quick
throw happen and take our chances from there. That's the one,
(38:27):
as you guys were talking about it last segment, that
was the one kind of takeaway that you know, I
had from that that game last night.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
I wonder if teams are going to try to do that.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
It's a it's an interesting observation and interesting point, although
I think we're gonna have to wait at least a
week to apply what the defense is doing stematically to
the Steelers because the Bengals cannot play defense.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
They cannot play defense.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
I watched that Bear Cincinnati game before the Steeler game
last night, and it's one of the most terrific defense
I've ever seen.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
It's really terrible. It's just and it may be getting worse.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
It's just off the charts awful. But their offense ever
since the second half against Green Bay Flaco's first game
when he got off I seventy one and went into battle,
they're lighting people up.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
They're scoring points on everybody.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
Now.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
They give the Jets twenty three points in the fourth
quarter and they have a fourteen point lead. No excuse me,
they had a fourteen point deficit and the Bears had
the ball with two minutes and change left. They took
the lead and they still lost.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So lost.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, Like, it's just it's catastrophic how bad they are defensively.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
So just score. I don't care.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
If you'd run Jalen Warren every time and you hold
the ball for fifty eight minutes, I don't care if
it's a passing circus, just get in the end zone
because everybody else is and going back to our they're
leaving meat on the bone. Thing that showed up on
the Thursday night in Cincinnati there were Metcalf got the
(40:03):
ball ripped out of his hand, false start on the
touch portster on fourth down when.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
They're gonna go for it and try to get a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Probably leaving out a couple. But you know, they got
thirty one in that game. They needed to get more
and they could have got more.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Could you go more?
Speaker 5 (40:17):
And one thing though, Rob, I'm not sure if you
were even going down this road. But in terms of
how defenses that are actually good are gonna play against
the Steelers going forward, I do think that, and I've
been kind of saying this all year that the lack
of true downfield passing for the Steelers is something that's
gonna be exposed to some point. I just don't think
(40:39):
you can nickel and die and get it out of
your hands Outsmart everyone up and down the field over
and over and over. Their explosive play stuff is really
really poor. And I'm not even saying you have to
hit bombs and moonballs from Russell Wilson to Pickens type thing.
But I do think your intermediate and deeper passing are
gonna have to be a little bit more something you
(41:00):
can count on.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I don't want to you know, listen, different quarterbacks, uh,
different offenses. But the year the Steelers started eleven or no,
I believe it was eleven or O right, Mike, Uh yeah, uh,
they followed a similar success, a similar game plan, uh,
only in the regard that Ben Roethlisberger was getting the
(41:22):
ball out quickly and then defenses kind of started to
constrict a little bit and that stopped working and the
Steelers were kind of limping as they went into the
playoffs and was they were I believe a won and
done team that year. In fact, I know they were
one and done team that year. I just that that
worries me a little bit that you've got to find
(41:44):
You've got to find different ways now perhaps to attack
and listen, you know, if you're a if you're a
team that you know, like like Mike tom Andoy says,
you have red paint painted or barn red. You know,
if if you're a defense it doesn't have a four
man rush and can't roll seven guys up and coverage.
You're not gonna do it right. You can't just copy
what somebody else does. Hey, Uh, I saw Mike Tyson
(42:07):
knock this guy out. Uh, I'm gonna try to knock
this guy out. Well, I mean, you know, you got
to be who you are to some degree as well.
I just, you know, a game like last night where just,
you know, nothing seemed to be rhythmic. I don't want
to make a bigger thing of it than it is.
My temptation is to say, uh, you know, hey, wash
(42:29):
your hands, let's go, let's go get the Bengals, Let's
let's try to get better. Let's try to get better
in the areas that have hurt us, you know, namely
three and outs, and let's go. But I do, you know,
I do wonder if teams will say, maybe we should
try a little bit more of that.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
So I get the red paint thing, and I cite
it often myself. But the prettiest barns aren't just one color,
you know. I mean, the ones that catch your attention
have this beautiful male male pouch thing on the side,
and the windows are a different color, and they have
shutters and their different colors you know. I mean, you
(43:04):
can't just be a Red Barn. You're I can beat
my homes with just being a Red Barn.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Right, Well, you're playing him this week.
Speaker 5 (43:13):
Eventually you gonna run into somebody in the playoffs, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, But honestly, like this week's different.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
I mean, of all the things that were said, h
after the game last night, Rogers said don't ride the wave.
Before that, he had said don't ride the roller coaster.
I mean, look at this crazy goofy league. Oh, I'm
just I'm not projecting what their final record is going
to be today because I have no idea. You have
no idea what it's gonna look like in two weeks.
(43:38):
You have no idea what it's gonna look like in
a month.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
Speaking of which, my phone just blew up. Joe Burrow
is returning to practice this week.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I saw that.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Wow, what well limited capacity? Yeah, playing anytime soon, but.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
Throw that out there.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
You know, look at the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
They beat Kansas City and they're they're going all the
way and then they get killed by Miami.
Speaker 5 (44:00):
It's really hard to I know.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Somebody explained that, yeh, Like, yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
I think it's obvious. Who's bad. I don't know who's good.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's always in that group though, you know, right right
with the Saints. Who you know, who are the really
bad teams? Well, the Giants are awful. They almost pulled
off an up they oh the Giants. Yeah, I did
not know that the Saints are terrible, right, Uh? Well
they beat they beat a Carolina team, and we're like,
wait a minute, Carolina is kind of interesting now.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
They interested me a good deal less.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And you know, coming off that Monday night win against
the Chiefs, right you you eked out a you know,
you lost sixteen to fourteen. You get sluggish start, you
couldn't get it. They got rolled by the Dolphins. It's
the most bizarre year. I mean, we're looking up right now,
who are the best teams in football? Is it New
(44:51):
England or Denver or Indianapolis or.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
How many teams? How many prognosticators okay, the Rams maybe?
How many prognosticators would have had any of those four
teams in your top five at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
Of the season.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
No, I totally hear you.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
They always say it's a week to week league, and
that always sounded like cliche.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
Is yeah, yeah, it's it's true this year, It's and
spoilers are a week to week team. Yeah, that's pretty clear.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yep, and uh, let's let's hope they can get it
figured out in time to beat Cincinnati and improve the
six and four big game coming up at home on Sunday.
We thank you for being with us and the Point
After for Matt Williams and four Mike pursued it for
our producer at the Controls, Justin Miller. I'm rob King
(45:42):
The Point After presented by you Neighborhood Ford Store and
the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from the team
at shop dot Steelers dot com. Thanks for listening on
WDVEE and Steelers Nation Radio.
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