November 17, 2025 • 46 mins
Rob, Mike, and Matt share their reactions and takeaways from the Steelers' solid victory against the Bengals as the black and gold remains atop the AFC North
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Point After, presented by your neighborhood Ford
Store and the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com. You're listening
on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network alongside Mike Prezuda
and Matt Williamson. I'm Rob King, Thanks very much for
being with us. Steelers defeat the Cincinnati Bengals yesterday by
the score of thirty four to twelve. Mike, let's start
(00:27):
with your sort of general thoughts on this Steelers victory.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Very excited about the defense, Frustrated by the offense.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
That's fair.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Should I elaborate through?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'd like a little more elaboration an hour to
kill here.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, we talked a lot before the game that Bengals
offense is legit. You know, Flacco, Jason Higgins were lighting
everybody up. They lit up the Steelers, they lit up
the Bears. Who the Steelers are getting ready to play
to hold those guys down the way they did, and
not to do any kind of gimmicky defense or reinventing
(01:04):
the defensive wheel. Jamar Chase ten targets, three catches, thirty
yards fantastic.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I don't care that Chase Brown ran for.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Ninety nine yards because if I'm playing the Bengals, I
want them handing the ball to Chase Brown, not throwing
it to t Higgins or Jamar Chase other side of
the ball. I wanted to see pre chargers Aaron Rodgers.
I didn't see that guy for two quarters. Mason Rudolph
came in.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
He was fine.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
He threw sideways because the Bengals can't cover the flat
because their linebackers think. And Kenneth Gangwell caught a touchdown
by beating them to the flat from Aaron Rodgers, and
he caught a touchdown by beating them to the flat
from Mason Rudolph. But what's starting to drive me up
the wall is their insistence upon using everybody on offense.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Simplifying things on defense, particularly in the secondary, has paid dividends.
I'd like to get back to Metcalf and Austin being
the two receivers in a two wide receiver set. If
you don't think Austin's that guy anymore, then it should
be Scantling.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Maybe it should be John Smith uh playing wide receiver
because you don't have enough of those. Simplify Uh, they're
not getting enough out of Smith or Friar moves a
tight end. Maybe that's because they're coming in and out
of the game all the time.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'm just spitballing here, but the offense to me is
regressing while the defense is progressing, and they got to
figure that out.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So the first game in a little lesson. I wanted
that probably a little more than I will.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, world, the next one'll be just right.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
There's just so much to chew on, so much to
chew on. Have an hour, we'll get to it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
You guys have been working with me long enough, you know,
I get like an obsession of the week. No, it's great,
two touchdowns against that clown defense.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's an awful defense.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Is just way below the line, and you can't just
keep doing it the same way.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
But I've got a question for you, but I want
to hear from Matt first. Matt, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I want to get into a lot of the offensive
usage stuff, a ton of stuff Mike touched on. But
I think probably the theme is you played a quality,
clean game against the division opponent, in a game you
pretty closely had to have. I mean, you had to
stop the bleeding, you kind of eliminated the division foe.
You know, you need that win at home. But I
(03:23):
think one of the overriding themes is so many of
the depth players played really, really absolutely. I mean to me,
that was, you know, bottom of the roster guys stepped up.
You know, maybe in some of the mark going to
be bottom of the roster guys for long.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Okay, So I'm going to throw this out here, Mike,
and I like your opinion on it because I think
it probably I think the weather conditions had something to
do and I want to take away from what the
Steelers defense did. I think it had something to do
with really limiting Chase and Higgins, and I think it
had something to do perhaps to the with you know,
(03:57):
your your complaints about Aaron Rodgers not looking as sharp
as you wanted him to in the first half after
coming off the game against the Chargers. You know, I
was watching the game last night in Philadelphia. I don't
know if the win was as strong as it was
in Philadelphia, but they were showing the pregame the kickers kicking,
starting the ball left to the upright and it blowing
completely wide right by like five yards and I'm just
(04:20):
you know, I don't remember, and Flacco has been has
had no issues pressing the ball down the field. We
only have to remember back to October sixteenth to see
deep out after deep out after deep out, the play
to Higgins down the field to end the game. I
didn't see any plays like that by either team, and
I have to think we should probably temper a little
(04:42):
bit of our enthusiasm for the defense, not a lot,
but a little bit, and a little bit of our
displeasure with the offense if we have some on the
field on the weather conditions. So you just is that
fair enough or not?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I mean you were there. It was a little hard
to see on TV, like when the ball.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Was in the behind two planes of glass. Max Max
has the full the window of it is right in
front of Max. I'm behind two planes of glass, but
I mean the the But you.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Think when the ball was in the air, whether off
a foot or a hand or throw, it was an adventure.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So Ryan Rico in pregame looked like he was really
struggling trying to find out how to combat the wind.
I mean he was shanking balls, he was kicking him low.
He was trying to figure it out. The the uprights
were wobbling throughout most of the game, and the nets,
the kicking nets were billowing backwards. You know, seventeen eighteen
(05:33):
mile a hour wins. It had to be I'm guessing
it had I'm guessing it had to be a factor.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I saw Boswall during warm ups short from fifty two
yards going to the north end, sohoy taking but Fleco
got the ball down the field to Jamar Chase on
the deep post and James Spear slotted it. He did
hit one of those outs to Higgins that you.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Were talking about, but he had a step on him.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Completed a great deep ball back shoulder to h dk
Metcalf that for some reason got called past interference.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Maybe it was a fact, but I still want to
see more by the.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Way I want. You mentioned that on the Morning Show,
and it's funny. I thought live it might have been
a push off, and when I watched it on the replay,
I didn't think there was any way that was past interference.
Did they discuss that? Was that one of the ones
on TV that they right? I don't think they.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Went in depth on that, And actually what I saw
was no flag initially, and then I saw DJ Turner
was about it, and then I saw a flag.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
That was a late that sometimes the guy the optics
were bad, they were they were bad. Yeah, And I
think we mentioned that actually in the call, that DJ
Turner was asking for it and asking for it and
finally got it, just.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Like a machine.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Not the official's greatest moments either, I didn't. I didn't
think it was the cleanest officiating game.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
But there were a lot of issues.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, Orlando Brown or moving early every pass play makes
me insane.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know that is that is something that you see
around the NFL. Yeah, that drives me bananas and takes
away from pass rushes. I don't know whether they're tacitly
allowing that because they want quarterbacks to be upright. So, okay,
you got to line up. You have to line up
with your head over their waist. We're gonna we're gonna
be We're gonna knuckle down on that, but we're not
(07:23):
gonna knuckle down on you leaving that little bit of
second early that allows you to protect your quarterback.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
We'll enough time to get into it. But I've I've
harped on this for maybe close to ten years, and
it's getting the discrepancies even getting wider. One of the
biggest problems the league has is the defensive linemen are
way better than the offensive lineman, so they're giving them
a little bit of help. Okay, you know, look at
what the Steelers have upfront. I mean there's a loss
of raptors across every d line in the league. Just
(07:49):
watch an NFL combine and looking like, how those guys
ever gonna block all those guys? You know, I mean,
it's a it's a problem that such as life.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I think Troy Thanas picking up on that tech a
little bit too, might as well. Maybe somebody should tell
the guy on the other side, you know, you can
get away.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
With us push guards.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Having said that, it would be nice to you know,
you need to know what you can get away with
and not get away with, and not to I am
not an official griper. I do not get in. I
don't do it on the air. I figured these things
usually wash out. But if you want to know what's holding,
what isn't holding, go back the week before against the
Chargers pivotal call against Zach Frasier. I think it was
(08:31):
Zach Fraser who was called for the holding playing that
that brought the that brought the was that the the
pass to John Smith that was brought back? No, John Smith,
was it a touchdown that was brought back? It was
a first down for sure. Anyway, anyway it was there
was a dubious call. Yeah, that's let's flush that one.
Let's flush that.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
One Bengals game, the first Bengals game in the touchdown.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Actually, that's exactly what it was. And they wiped that away.
And I mean, think about the momentum swing with that right,
and you could have been up seventeen to nothing in
that game easily and you wind up losing the game.
So that which underscored the importance of this victory. I
do want to get into this discussion and let's talk
about the tight ends in particular, because and this is
(09:17):
something I've said about the offense. I think I'm right
in what they're doing. I don't know for a fact,
because nobody's come out and said it, but I just
think it's a very matchup oriented offense. And I think
it's been that way on defense too, although maybe less
so in the last couple of weeks of the injuries
they've had and maybe to their maybe they've been better. Yeah.
(09:42):
So I just think that what we're going to see
out of this receiving core is matchups that they see
that they think they can exploit. And that's that in
a given game. So but I can't have I can't.
You know, some people will say I need more of
Darnel Washing, right, Well, you can't have more of Darnell
(10:02):
Washington and have more of everybody else. You just can't.
There's only so many.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
We thought this on several Mondays, especially when you run
the fewest plays in the league, right, you know, like, well,
why doesn't this guy get the Baltimore? Why does this
guy get Walmarton? Like, you only run fifty five plays
a game, You're last in the league. They ran sixty small,
I mean before this game.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I'm talking, but they still didn't run more than
the Benkals.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
They still have not run more than their opponents.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
All season long. They haven't run more plays than their opponents.
That is issue number one. And I also think that,
and they were better about it this week. Obviously they're closer.
I also think that it's just this is just the
way it's going to be. I mean, Darnell Washington is
going to get the Lion's sheriff snaps in some games,
and it looks now like in a lot of games,
and that only leaves and then you bring in Spencer
(10:46):
Anderson for thirteen percent of the snaps. Well, you know
there's a there's more snaps being taken away from Friarmuth
and John new Smith and Calvin Austin and.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Let you put five skill guys out there, right right,
And here's my grand vision.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You guys can correct me if I'm not seeing this.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
By the way, I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong,
so so a Pine, I'm just saying that's what it
looks to me, Like, Hey, this week, it's gonna be Friarmouth,
next week it's gonna be Calvin Austin. We're always going
to try to get to ball a dk Metcalf and
then after it and we're gonna throw them all a
lot to our running backs and after that.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I'm fine with it as long as somebody rises up
every game and is the matchup guy. I'm starting to
think that maybe these guys can't figure that out each
week because.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Lately we're not seeing anybody rise up.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And here's here's one while in the receiving game.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Here's my vision.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I would say Washington rose up yesterday and game well
rose up. I mean he was like Andre the Giant,
shrugging off.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Two touchdowns against the clown defense. They didn't do enough.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I can't stress how much you've stressed about the clown defense.
That's the worst defense on the planet. We can never
forget that. By the way, right team busts to arrive
at Akrocer Stadium. It was gonna be one of those
little cars.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
And then they were all just going to keep pouring
out of it. On the right. Here's what I saw early.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
In the season and what I thought was effective. Early
in the season, Metcalf and Austin were playing almost exclusively
in two wide receiver sets. Like it wasn't It wasn't
Metcalf and Roma Wilson, it wasn't Metcalf in skronic And
you had those two guys who are both deep threats.
If you cover either one of them single coverage, Rogers
(12:30):
was going to take a shot. We saw it with
Metcalf the New England game that won the New England game.
When when Rogers saw that Austin was gonna get single
coverage and they were to cover too, But somehow Rogers
knew the one safety was going to come down, and
it happened exactly that way.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Boom, game winning touchdown.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
If they're gonna stay in cover two and and not
give you the one on once, okay, good run the ball.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Now it's the time of year where you want to
run the ball. It might be windy. Run the ball.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
It might be cold and nasty in the aft North,
run the ball the in and out thing. I mean,
bench Kronick. I get he's a good blocker.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
He's been targeted.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Three times in ten games, right, what is this accomplishing?
And they haven't been running up and down the field
on people either. They're getting better running the ball, but
I'm not seeing enough consistent production from the offense. And
it is starting to concern me because it's starting to
look like last year and the year before and the
year before, and.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
That ain't good enough.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
So I look at what they did on defense, and
they kind of their hand got forced by the injuries.
But now all of a sudden, you have Dougger at
one safety and Ramsey at the other. You don't have well,
sometimes Ramsey's a safety and sometimes Ramsey's a slot guy.
Sometimes Ramsey's the outside corner, and sometimes Thornhill plays and sometimes.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Clark No that you're the free safety.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Two corners. You got Echos in the slot, and you
got your two safeties, and it's working. So pick three guys,
all right. If Washington is making over tight end beautiful,
he's one tight end. When you want to go two tights,
maybe Friarmus should be the other guy. If you don't
think you have a second wide receiver, maybe Jonas Smith
should be that guy, because Miami used him as a
(14:12):
wide receiver a lot last year and he had eighty
something catches and almost nine hundred yards and eight touchdowns on.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
A team with Waddle and Hill with bad quarterback playing.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I just I get the theory of being versatile and
having different guys for any kind of coverage you might
see or any kind of game plan you might want
to concoct. It ain't working, simplify it. Pick some guys
play football.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
So as you might not be surprised by I have
some snap count and percentage numbers for you. But I
will also say one of the knocks or one of
the criticisms right or wrong about Arthur Smith, especially when
he was in charge of the whole shebang in Atlanta
was I don't understand the rhyme or reason of why
Michael Pruitt's out there and not Kyle Pitts in Bijon
(15:01):
vers age years didn't get the ball right, right right,
star as to get the ball and fantasy people hated it. Yesterday,
I thought it was pretty telling, and I think to
your point, they're searching. I don't know what they're happy with, anything, groping, searching, whatever. Yeah,
so Washington, when they played eleven personnel, three receivers on
(15:21):
the field, one tight end, he was the tight end
ninety percent of the time and over eighty five percent
on third downs, so he's out there a lot. But
what's weird is when they had two tight ends on
the field, he was one of the two only thirty
six percent of the time. So if it's one tight end,
he was out there, if it's two, he's usually on
(15:43):
the sideline. I'm not sure the large logic behind that,
except for you want to become a little faster or whatever.
And then the other thing that was very different yesterday
was Roman Wilson really became the two and I think
Austin's in the doghouse.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I think again, why I terrible game against the Chargers.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
He did.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
But if you put everybody in the doghouse who had
a terrible game against.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
The Chargers, the whole offense, there would be nobody on
the front and the entire offense would be in the doghouse.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
So when they had two receivers on the field, Wilson
was out there fifty three percent of the time, Austin
was only out there twenty.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I mean, do you get what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
All right? Hold on, I want to, I want to.
I want to continue this conversation. We got to take
a break. Okay, let's let's continue this conversation. We want
to do this. You're listening to the Point After presented
by you neighborhood Forward Store and the students Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at Shop dot Steelers
dot Com on DVE and this stee there's audio network.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Back to the point after on DV.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Back to pass. Look we left the game on the
left flat games Well shrugs off a tackle and gets
into the end zone for a Pittsburgh Steelers touchdown. Point
After presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and by the
Students Pro Shop, get it direct from the team at
shop dot Steelers dot com, here on DVE and the
Students Audio Network. That was the opening drive of the game,
(17:01):
eleven yard touchdown patch from Rogers to gain Well gets
around the left edge. Nice to see an eight play
seventy eight yard drive to begin the game, Matt. I mean,
you're talking about a team that you know was successful
order in the season. Remember when they had an opening
drive touchdown against the Jets. It was their first and
eleven games. So now they're maybe back to doing that,
(17:21):
getting the ball first, trying to put some points on
the board early, a long drive, running some plays, all
the things that hadn't been happening for this Yeelers happens
on that opening drive and it is not Warren out
of the left lat it's gain Well. And we're talking
about a little bit because Mike brought this up about
personnel usage on offense and whether you know they are
(17:43):
mixing and matching. They're clearly mixing and matching. Are they're
doing it too much? They need to just get their
best guys out there. You know your thoughts, because I
know you break down all these snap counts and who's
getting what.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, And a big reason I do it is to
try to get in the minds of the coaches to
see what they're thinking. And you know how effective they
are in different situations. Now I'll be just throwing out
there all of this conversation screams to me, you maybe
should trade for number two receiver and just everyone else
can figure it out. You know, player X could have
(18:15):
been your second receiver, because it seems like they're searching
or forget what word you used. It's almost like, if
you do you have two quarterbacks, you have none. Well,
if you have three tight ends, you have none. If
you have four number two receivers, you have none. You know, like,
are any of them good enough? Is what I'm kind
of throwing out there. If some of them? If Rowan
Wilson was a superstarved, he'd have been out there all
(18:36):
the time anyway, you know what I mean, Like part
of me just thinks and he.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Would get more than two targets and one catch.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, And by the way, he's out there but not
getting the ball.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Maybe maybe this is why they don't have enough plays. Yeah,
because they're not doing enough with the plays they have.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Like I'm not sure who their best five are I just.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You know, like I mentioned last segment, somebody needs to
rise up now. This guy really, to me that came
to doing that yesterday was Gainwell. He had twenty four
yards rushing and eighty one yards receiving. Now he ended
up playing sixty three percent of the snaps and Warren
played twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Okay, I'd like.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
To I mean, obviously an injury occurred, right.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I'd like to see that breakdown reversed. But play a
back seventy percent and play the other back twenty percent.
Don't don't try to equal it out, which we've seen a.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Lot in these games. Let a guy.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Both of these guys are capable of being a third
down back. You don't have to play one on first
and second down and the other on third down. You
could play one guy for two series or three series
and then let the other one have a series and.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
See what happens.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Same thing as Tight. I think Johnny Smith's a hell
of a player. I think Pat Fryern, who's the hell
of a player. They are not getting enough out of
either one of these guys, and I don't know if
that's the fault of these guys or how they're being used,
but what I'm seeing is not enough offensive production.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
So what I'm arguing is change the way you're doing this.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
The way you changed and had to change it defensively
because your injury situation.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
You kind of lucked into it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
The stability in the secondary that they keep promoting is
the catalyst for better defense.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Maybe that'll help you on offense.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know, Pat Fryar without one hundred and eleven yards
receiving against the Bengals in the first matchup.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
He got one target yesterday.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, okay, what so like a huge thing I talked
about leading up the Bengals game is like the offense
is struggling. Let's get the ball in Metcalf, Warren and
Friar Moose hands. However you're gonna do it this designer
plays sounds like a plan, right. I Mean I thought
they were the most reliable they've all been around.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And I thought that doesn't work in next week, Let's
make it Metcalf, Warren and John Neus Smith.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And maybe it's Washington not Friar Moose. Maybe I just
picked the wrong tight end, you know, but like they
seem the most reliable, well rounded, have had the best
careers to date. Let's simplify things. Let's do designer plays
where we pick friar moose guy and he gets open
and the balls going to him on the first read.
You know, like a lot of teams do you know,
they get their best players of the ball, and you
can do that. In this league, they kind of did it,
(21:10):
you know. I mean in that game, well by default
had to be the guy. And it reminded me of
the Vikings game in Dublin, where I was happy that
he showed he could be the guy when the time
came with a heavy workload and he had a really
good game. You know, like I think we're let's not
forget that he played really well yesterday.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
You know he did, but they kind of loucked into
that because of the Warren injury.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But war was playing better Ryan Perry's for sixty two
yards at that point defense ever. But you know, I
think it's I think it's I think it's interesting because
there's there's a there's just so many things to parse out.
What the there's an old line, sorry, Matt, because you
love stats and I also love stats. There are lies, there,
(21:54):
damn lies and their statistics, right, So what what do
you want the statistics to say?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
How I some of mine?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And by the way, I love it. I love the
Matt's stats and I love gleaning through him. And and
you know, you're at some point in the season, I think,
and I think we're at that point. You have to
say the statistics carry weight, right, So there are certain things.
For example, the Steelers didn't run more plays than the Patriots. Well,
what if Kyle Dugger, you know, comes up with an
(22:23):
interception and is immediately tackled. They run more plays, so
they have a five minute time of possession advantage. Do
you want to give that Dugger play back?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Do you want to give back an Adyr touchdown pass
the DK Metcalf? No?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
But you score twice on defense, It's hard to run
more plays than the oppeunent.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Right, and explosive plays and other things that are happening.
But at some point over the course of a season,
and I think, Mike, this is probably your most compelling argument.
So I'm talking about matchups. So I if I want
to talk about matchups, I can say, okay, well they
clearly thought gain Well in the Flat was a really
good matchup and game well had seven receptions for eighty
(23:03):
one yards. Let him clearly, we thought Darnell will scrimmage.
Does it matter now? Seven receptions for eighty one yards.
Darnell Washington four receptions sixty seven yards. Those are the
matchups you thought you could exploit. The other team gets
coach to try to take away DK Metcalf. If we're
going to say you got Chase and Higgins, well, if
(23:24):
you're the opposing team, you got one guy. You got
to take away Metcalf for sure. And that's been what
has it been five games now where he's averaged under
forty yards in the last five games receiving per game,
So he's been held in check for quite some time.
So on the one hand, you can say, hey, the
matchup stuff is working because we're finding different heroes in
(23:45):
every game and we're six and four, right, we have
a winning record. But then you take a look at
all the numbers and okay, we can excuse time of
possession because Metcalf has a big play so you have
a one play drive, you're getting defensive touchdown, so that's
taking away possessions your offense. But I think you know,
in total, you're only two games over five hundred. You've
(24:06):
not run more plays than your opponent at any one time.
You're the worst, have the lowest, the worst three and
out percentage in the league offensively, So is this working?
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Clearly not.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
So that's where I think you can.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You can.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
On the one hand, you can say, look look at
the matchups, Look who is the hero this week and
that week? Look at our record. On the other hand,
you can look at the overall numbers and wonder.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I liked I mean in the early going in particular,
when they were they were struggling more than they are now,
but Rogers was able to make just enough place to
win right when they were winning games. And New England
game is a great example. They struggled mightily, got off
to that hot lead early in the game, and then
they couldn't do anything but got that last turnover, game
was on the line, or able to drive.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Down and score a touchdown win the game. Just it.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It's looking a little too familiar to me now in
terms of what it is capable of producing. And you know,
I'll take the win thing into consideration. Let's see what
happens next game. I don't know they're going to the
Windy City, so This might not be the best time
to test your theory, but I just I got to
see more from this offense.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I didn't know if they're gonna win. Yesterday.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I showed up at the stadium thinking, well, Bengals are
scoring thirty five ish. Oh yeah, let's let's see what happens.
And it way completely the other way. Defense was really good,
the offense wasn't. But they need more from the offense
otherwise it's just the same kind of thing that we've seen.
It'll be good enough to get there, but not good
enough to get anywhere once you do.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Would we be feeling this way about the offense? Matt
Do you think if that Chargers game wasn't right in
the middle of this stretch of games, because it appeared
to me, you know, from DOUBLEE on right, you started
to feel Okay, hey Dublin, you started to run the
football with Kenneth Gainwell, the running game is pretty good.
Wasn't great against the Colts, but but you still got
(25:58):
two rushing touchdowns Jalen Warren in that game, you know,
you beat a previously once beaten team. You know you'd
scored thirty plus points against the Bengals. Would we be
thinking this way. If that Chargers game happened in Week two,
would we be thinking better thoughts about this offense? Do
you think?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Now, let's say last week they had an average offensive
performance and they didn't like the world on fire and
beat the eighty five Bears by forty or anything, but
they had an average offense. Wo ms I think, But
I mean, I hope the Chargers game is the low
point for the offense. I mean, and it has better
to day. I mean, it was as low as you
(26:39):
get in this league. But I mean somewhat of the
elephant the room is too, is I think the quarterback
was playing better early in the year than he has
the last two or three games, you know, and including
the Colts game. But you got so much splash on
defense you didn't need as much from the offense.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
One of the comments from Aaron Rodger after the game
against LA you know, he was asked and like I thought,
is I thought his postgame comments mirrored what I was
questioning and wondering about. Did you step in and sacks? Well,
I'll have to look back at the tape. I don't
know that he didn't dismiss it, right, you know, talking
(27:19):
about he needed to be better for sure. He also
said guys weren't open. He didn't see guys open. Are
we seeing guys open? So if Aaron Rodgers is back
and is expecting a play and it's not there and
now he has to shift around in the pocket, it's
a quick timing pass or what have you? Look that
(27:41):
could that could upset the timing of everything. And I
guess the question is, now, is there any chance defenses
have seen some things as Steaders do well in the
passing game and have taken that away, And now the
Steaders are gonna have to adjust a little bit in
the passing game to help Aaron Rodgers and to help
the passing game out a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yes is the answer. I mean, I was so impressed
with the Chargers defense, execution, toughness, doing your job. Jacksonville
not so much apparently, no, no, right right, But they
were like doing things like bud Dupreeze dropping into the
short zones because everything's such a quick hitter for Rogers
(28:19):
in the passing game, and I think you're gonna see
more and more of that. I almost want to throw
the Bengals game away because they just have bad players everywhere,
like I remember you guys asked me on the pregame show,
like you and Jerry are like, well, they're historically bad
in all these categories.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
What do you see?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I'm like, they have anybody that's any good.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I thought Miles Murphy had a good game yesterday.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
I have the double Jack But okay, I.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Thought he played a pretty good game. But yeah, but
I mean they're what was the stat eleven top one
hundred players taken in the draft by them since twenty
twenty one on defense? Yeah, and they were gotten.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Oh, they just keep investing, keep investing, right, because all
their money.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Is on offense, and they've been changing coaches.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, and he gets he's been told to do it
pretty well.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Right.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Absolutely, I don't know. I think the passing game in general,
and frankly, I would still like to have been more
run heavy, especially every one of these games the Chargers
run defense was their weakness. I still think you need
to be a run, run first team. And because the
passing game is sort of problematic right now, it's amazing
(29:21):
though we've talked this much about negative things and Steels
played pretty good game Bengals yesterday.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And let's finish this off and then let's get back
to some of the positives, because there is one more
factor mic that we can't possibly know, which is play call,
play design versus changing plays at the line of scrimmage.
You know, I go back to the play the week
before where Aaron Rodgers thinks he has dk metcalf on
a slant and you know, it's second and four, and
(29:50):
instead of pitching it wide the balls at the ten
yard line second and six, instead of pitching it wide
and a go for it situation, you pitch it wide
to Jalen Warren. You know, there's a a certain situation
where if that's if that's like a young quarterback like
a Kenny Picket or a Duck Hodges, he's pitching the
ball to warn he's not. But I've got the best,
maybe one of the best, well certainly one of the
(30:11):
best ever do it, maybe the best ever do it
at the line of scrimmage. And he thinks he's got
a slant. I'm not going to tell him no, right,
So you have to balance that out too. We don't
know how many things are being changed the line of scrimmage,
and it's not all the tapping on the side of
the head. Maybe it's uh, you know, maybe other things
are happening pre snap that I don't know about. So
(30:31):
the point being that I find it very very difficult
to judge if I'm trying to point a finger blame
at somebody. Who to judge other than to say that
we'd like to see you'd like to see more from
the offense in general, Mike, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
It's it's a very valid point.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You know, it comes down to quarterback play, and it
was it was working just well enough early in the season.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Not early in the season, up for much of the season.
Yeah pre Chargers, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
He went in with the top ten quarterback rating.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I was thrilling with a Rogers up until the charges gout.
I thought he played a bad game. Now, as we
had talked about last week, DK metcalf bends the route
on the deep ball in the first quarter should be
seven to nothing. Instead, it's an incompletion that changes the
way things flow. But in that sequence you mentioned with
the bud dupre playing, you know, he checked out of
the toss because he thought he had this slant. On
(31:22):
the next down, he played chuck and duck and missed
gain while who was wide open in the flat. Now,
that's not a running back usage thing or a divisional
labor thing. That's an execution thing. Better execution would cure anything.
I just think I'd like to see them give guys
a chance to heat up and get into the game
and and maybe be out there consistently enough to make
(31:43):
more plays.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I don't know that everybody is interchangeable. Maybe on a
dry erase board they are. Maybe when you're breaking down
tape they are. But they're human beings and they're playing
a game. And you know, Pat Fryermuth think is has
more talent than his statistics would suggest. I think there's
(32:06):
more meat on that bone.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I've kind of thought that for years about for years.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
He's been so reliable. I think he's a really.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Good player, and I don't understand why he doesn't put
up more numbers.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Steter nations like trade him.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
He's worth it.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I'm like, no, he's good at what he does.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But he hasn't had a great quarterback play either.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I've been a fan of the John hus Smith trade,
and right now he hasn't had more than twenty eight
receiving yards in a game.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That's crazy to me.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
In a game crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I thought he would have I thought he was going
to have big numbers this here.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
So what the whole make I Fitz patch up trade
ended up producing was make his replacement and a guy
who hasn't had more than twenty eight receiving yards per game.
To MAT's point, maybe they should have been more aggressive
about a second receiver, or maybe they need to give
a guy a chance to be that second receiver. If
it's Austin, if it's Wilson, if it's John hus Smith,
(32:58):
maybe maybe the answer is lining him up on the
other side of the field is dk metcalf and having
him run receiver routes and then nobody's open. Well, hey,
it's the NFL. They're rarely open. That's why you have
a Hall of Favor to give you a perfect ball
placement so a guy can make a play.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
At Clearview Federal Credit Union, they're always upping their game
for those in need through touchdowns for hope. Clearview will
donate five hundred dollars to the Light of Life Rescue
Mission for every black and goal touchdown scored this season.
Visit CLEARVIEWFCU dot org. Slash touchdown to learn more. Back
with more on the Point After, presented by our neighborhood
Ford Store and by the Steelers Pro Shop Get It
Direct from the team at shop dot Steelers dot com
(33:34):
on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Back to the Point After on DVE.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Back to Pats looking throws out to the right flat
at is complete to Noah and fant two hands around
the pull, but still lost it. It's picked up by Pierre,
Pierre racing down the left sideline, summersaults into the end
zone and a second defensive touchdown for the Pittsburgh ste
And thanks for being with us for the Point After,
(34:03):
presented by our neighborhood Forge Store and this year's Pro
Shop Get it Direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot com. That was a great punch out because
did he had both hands around the ball and they
still got it out of there and raced back for
the touchdown.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Phenomenal And I think you really got to call out
Echoles and Pierre specifically, but the whole defense played well.
They had tough assignments against the best pair of receivers
in the league. You know, we do that Thursday matchup
show with Missy and by no means where we're going
to say eliminate Chase, like that's too bold. You know,
just don't let him destroy you. You know, the same
(34:39):
thing we've said, like about Jonathan Taylor. You know, they
took two of those, both those dudes out in very
short amount of time. And again so many of the
backups stepped up well opportunistic on defense. It wasn't perfect,
but that is a really good offense. That's a total
opposite of the crap ass Bengals defense conversation is peer
(34:59):
still backup, not.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
The bab no no, no. Well, and here's you know,
first of all, I.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Mean, unless Samuel is going to knock him off, but
Pierre over Sleigh.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
That's yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I mentioned this many hours ago on the on the
Morning Show on DV. But Adolf of the cap to
the personnel department for finding guys like Kyle Dugger, who
obviously turn up a big play in this game, Brandon Eckles,
who ideally was going to be your fourth corner, but
has that capability even a Jalen Ramsey to be able
to move from corner to safety, although that was probably
(35:30):
more well known. But you know, and James Pierre kind
of sticking with him. I will say this about Pierre,
he was a guy that they thought, Remember there's some
buzz about him Milli in his career, capable of being
a starter. Now he's off and on the roster. He's
a special teams gunner. What are we going to do
with him? He's on the practice squad. It shows and
so I do want to congratulate them for putting together
(35:52):
this team this year, the front office, but ultimately the
players have to play. And James Pierre, congratulations to him
because he looks like in the last few weeks, and
Mike Tomlins singled him out for praise last week in
his Tuesday press conference that he is developing into the
type of player this year's thought he could be at
some point. And Eccles coming over with his athleticism, we
(36:13):
knew he could be a good special teamers. But those
two guys emerging gives you renewed hope if you're a
Steelers fan that hey, okay, you move Ramsey to free safety.
This is the best secondaries looked the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, Eccles, I'm not as surprised about Pierre has God
bless him he's gotten better at cornerback, and he you know,
he got he made the team initially because he was
good on special teams and then over the years he'd
get periodic shots in corner it wouldn't go very well,
and you know that's why he got kind of kicked
back to that guy that Danny Smith has to argue
(36:46):
for right at every cutdown day, like, well, he's not.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Gonna help us on defense, but I need him. You know,
he really helped him on defense, and almost Matt one
hundred percent. The only guy I want to see put
him back on the bench is Sante Samuel. If he's better, great,
If not, there's your reporter and and Pierre and Pierre
should be your cornerbacks. And I thought you might crash
back to earth like yesterday. I leave him out there
(37:11):
like he's looked good every step of the way lately,
and I'm like, well, this could be quite the test
and we might be like that Pierre experiment was fun,
but he passed us lying.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
But there was a play against Higgins.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I mean the play against Geword Chase was a great play,
but Higgins caught a ball on him.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
And he tackled him like they're tackle to catch.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Dick Lebo used to pound that into those guys all
the night. Don't let a fifteen yard play become a
thirty five yard play. Everybody's the NFL. You're gonna give
up some completions, just limited damage.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Who was it that for the Broncos he was talking about?
Oh god, was he talking was advanced Joseph. It was
one of their had the right name of one of
the receivers who said, we was talking about another receiver
in the league, and he said, the Venus de Milo
has better hands than he does. So the statue, the
Greek statue that has no arms but the body block
(37:58):
attempt on a tackle. Oh does that drive me bananas?
Use your arms, wrap him up, take him to the ground.
Kyle Duggart, watch Kyle dugger tackle. He's not sure he's
not hit right. Yeah, that's how it's done. I don't
understand the whole shoulder thing. I don't know if it's
a I have no idea what that's all about. Bring
your arms, wrap him up, take him down. But listen,
(38:21):
it's Sante Samuel coming in and all of a sudden,
Now you could feel with with the way Ramsey solidified
the free safety spot. You could start to feel pretty
good about the way this defense in the secondary is
looking right now, and that scratches kind of the last
little piece off your puzzle, or should I think the
front line's been good. You know, Keanu Benton's got a
(38:41):
career high in sack. I think sacks. I think both
rookies have shown flashes, particularly Harmon and Cam Hayward. You
have the edge rushers, the linebacking situation Peyton Wilson I
think continues to get better.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Matt.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
You have good guys to rotate in there. This defense
and the way they played, not only making the splash
plays like the one we just heard about and Kyle Duger,
but just playing good defense. And with Samuel's not they
Sama kind of hanging out there is maybe another guy
to add. That's pretty good. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's clearly the best spot the defense has been in
all year. And sure they've had some attrition and they
had to play with a lot of dudes. High Smith's
a really good player. They didn't have them at their
disposal yesterday, but that happens. I mean, you're week eleven.
The NFL people are not going to be healthy across
the board, but they've found a lot. It took a
little while. The one thing you kind of mentioned there
too was even when they were winning games early in
(39:31):
the season, the defense just down after down wasn't good.
I mean, they allowed a lot of yards, a lot
of successful plays, and then they have the big sack
or the takeaway or the strip or whatever. Lately, they've
been good down and down out and getting the splash,
you know. And I do think to Mike's point we
started the show that I think they've finally figured out
(39:53):
where all the pieces of the puzzle were supposed to go,
and they're kind of leaving them there.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I got a lot of confidence in them again. Yeah,
I had a lot of confidence when the season started.
It went away quickly. But they are figuring it out.
And they got some what's the scouting tournament, They got
some dudes.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
They got some dudes. I was really worried when Ramsey
got kicked out of the game. I'm like, because uh,
echoes looked like he was banged up. I'm like, all
of a sudden, I don't get any corners.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I was actually over at the facility this morning and uh,
Mike Tomlin was cornering Ramsey the way shooter corner Gene
Hackman and Hoosiers and said, you got to give me
your word it will not be thrown out of no
more day.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Yeah, Drew, No, I didn't know. It's uh.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, he's gonna remember that scene. I well, I just
you know, but when you tied it into actually seeing
somebody in person up the bit, okay, good, good job.
I didn't know where we were going there. I'm a
little slow sometimes. Well you guys know that you worked
with me, because thanks man, I appreciate it. So, uh
you are killing it, so thank you. So yes, I
(41:04):
do feel better about the defense. I would still like
first half, third down defense. Second half much better. Yeah,
but so a third and eleven early on. You know,
because Matt, in your stat packet, you point out not
only has this to Tho's offense been the worst at
converting drives into either touchdowns or first downs, the defense
has not been very good at getting off the field
(41:25):
and preventing those situations either. So the amount of plays
we're seeing largely I think my own opinion is that
the offense hasn't carried its share of the burden. They
haven't sustained enough drives to keep the defense fresh and
to give the defense a lead, which then gives you.
Now the quarterbacks got to hold the ball a second longer.
You become more predictable, you get more turnovers, you get
(41:48):
the ball back to the offense again. I think it
starts mostly with the offense, but the defense has to
have taken some culpability for those statistics through this point
of the season.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I would love to stop talking about the time of
possession issues because everything you mentioned, it all leads up
to time of possession really terrible, you know. And I
thought early in the year it was the defense couldn't
get off the field. Then lately the offense couldn't covert
on third downs or get you know, couldn't sustain drive.
So it's been whack a mole to some degree of
how do you fix this as a team situation? But
(42:22):
I do think there have a chance to improve. I
would have run the ball more the past two weeks,
a higher percentage. I think the defense is in a
pretty good spot on in all, so, I hear you,
I mean, I'm still encouraged that it'll get better this
last portion of the season. Leading into that game. If
(42:44):
you look at just the snap counts. The defense was
basically on pace to play like three more full games
than the defense. You're gonna lose guys left and right. Yeah,
you're gonna lose guys.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Not a great statistic to have an albatross hanging around you.
But it's a great job ever thing.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
That's running through these huge holes in the fourth quarter
because they've been out there forever, and they've been out
there all year.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
You know, I totally agree with you, and so now
again just stack the wins. You had to have this win.
I think you almost have to have this win coming
up against Chicago. The Ravens are going to be seven
and five I think when they come when they when
they host the Steelers on December seventh. Actually they had
I think it's somebody in the Bengals. I believe their
next two opponents, right, So.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I give them the Bengals game at home Thursday night
AFC North game.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Ravens weren't impressive.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
The Ravens Browns, Yes, I did, Yeah, that I did.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
That was this rock.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Fight as it gets in this division. And Cleveland didn't
have a quarterback, right, they still have still almost won
the game.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
I cannot score that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I still I still think, yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
FLA is gonna have something for the Ravens.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
I don't see Baltimore as this juggernaut. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Well, the look at the look at who they've beat
and who they've lost to. They haven't beaten anybody any
good except Chicago, and they've lost every other good team
they've played except Chicago, and their wins are against struggling teams.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I think yesterday was significant for the Steelers. Your guy
Max told us on the pregame show. The players needed
that win. They they know what's going on better than
anybody else, and it was gonna be hard for them
to convince themselves they could still go win the division
if you couldn't beat the.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Bengals one out of two. Yeah, mathematically was a must.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Five and five, six and four not that big a
difference emotionally, mentally for everybody's sanity's sake.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Six and four, five and five, world of difference.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
At home after the Charger loss.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
You know, right, so third time in the last four
weeks that they're going to be facing a first place team, right,
They beat the Colts, lost to the Chargers, get a
break from the Bengals, and now they're taking on the
first place Bears, who got worked over pretty well by
the Ravens a few weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
But they're sort of similar. Bad defense, good offense.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And they can run the ball on a lot of
that's Caleb william but not a time. I mean, he's
a good runner, but they have good running, a good
stable of running backs, and they will present a physical challenge.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, And Caleb Williams is getting better and better, and
you know he's got a very good receiving core. They
reboilt the offensive line in the offseason. This will be
a formidable challenge against the Bears on.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Sunday, never an easy place to play. I don't know
if you'll have Rogers or not. But he has a
great history against the Bears. But I'm guessing he doesn't play.
I don't know who knows.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
Pittsburgh does not have a good history. No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
But you know, people around here, Steelers get a bunch
of turnovers, and people for some reason are like, well,
you can't cut on that every game, Like that's a
negative that your defense creates turnovers.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
They've abably been doing it straight for like five years.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Chicago's three losses this year, the Bears have generated one
turnover Chicago's seven wins This year, the Bears have generated
twenty one turnover plus sixteen.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Right, they're number one in the league.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I say against Minnesota, protect the ball, keep Caleb william
in the pocket, and you can beat these guys with
Mason Rudolph love it.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, he's my persuative. He's Matt Williams and Justin Miller
at the controls, I'm Rob King. We thank you for
listening to the point after presented by your neighborhood, Ford
Stour and the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com, on DVE
and the Steelers Audio Network
Welcome to the Point After, presented by your neighborhood Ford
Store and the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com. You're listening
on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network alongside Mike Prezuda
and Matt Williamson. I'm Rob King, Thanks very much for
being with us. Steelers defeat the Cincinnati Bengals yesterday by
the score of thirty four to twelve. Mike, let's start
(00:27):
with your sort of general thoughts on this Steelers victory.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Very excited about the defense, Frustrated by the offense.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
That's fair.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Should I elaborate through?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'd like a little more elaboration an hour to
kill here.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, we talked a lot before the game that Bengals
offense is legit. You know, Flacco, Jason Higgins were lighting
everybody up. They lit up the Steelers, they lit up
the Bears. Who the Steelers are getting ready to play
to hold those guys down the way they did, and
not to do any kind of gimmicky defense or reinventing
(01:04):
the defensive wheel. Jamar Chase ten targets, three catches, thirty
yards fantastic.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I don't care that Chase Brown ran for.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Ninety nine yards because if I'm playing the Bengals, I
want them handing the ball to Chase Brown, not throwing
it to t Higgins or Jamar Chase other side of
the ball. I wanted to see pre chargers Aaron Rodgers.
I didn't see that guy for two quarters. Mason Rudolph
came in.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
He was fine.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
He threw sideways because the Bengals can't cover the flat
because their linebackers think. And Kenneth Gangwell caught a touchdown
by beating them to the flat from Aaron Rodgers, and
he caught a touchdown by beating them to the flat
from Mason Rudolph. But what's starting to drive me up
the wall is their insistence upon using everybody on offense.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Simplifying things on defense, particularly in the secondary, has paid dividends.
I'd like to get back to Metcalf and Austin being
the two receivers in a two wide receiver set. If
you don't think Austin's that guy anymore, then it should
be Scantling.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Maybe it should be John Smith uh playing wide receiver
because you don't have enough of those. Simplify Uh, they're
not getting enough out of Smith or Friar moves a
tight end. Maybe that's because they're coming in and out
of the game all the time.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'm just spitballing here, but the offense to me is
regressing while the defense is progressing, and they got to
figure that out.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So the first game in a little lesson. I wanted
that probably a little more than I will.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, world, the next one'll be just right.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
There's just so much to chew on, so much to
chew on. Have an hour, we'll get to it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
You guys have been working with me long enough, you know,
I get like an obsession of the week. No, it's great,
two touchdowns against that clown defense.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's an awful defense.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Is just way below the line, and you can't just
keep doing it the same way.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
But I've got a question for you, but I want
to hear from Matt first. Matt, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I want to get into a lot of the offensive
usage stuff, a ton of stuff Mike touched on. But
I think probably the theme is you played a quality,
clean game against the division opponent, in a game you
pretty closely had to have. I mean, you had to
stop the bleeding, you kind of eliminated the division foe.
You know, you need that win at home. But I
(03:23):
think one of the overriding themes is so many of
the depth players played really, really absolutely. I mean to me,
that was, you know, bottom of the roster guys stepped up.
You know, maybe in some of the mark going to
be bottom of the roster guys for long.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Okay, So I'm going to throw this out here, Mike,
and I like your opinion on it because I think
it probably I think the weather conditions had something to
do and I want to take away from what the
Steelers defense did. I think it had something to do
with really limiting Chase and Higgins, and I think it
had something to do perhaps to the with you know,
(03:57):
your your complaints about Aaron Rodgers not looking as sharp
as you wanted him to in the first half after
coming off the game against the Chargers. You know, I
was watching the game last night in Philadelphia. I don't
know if the win was as strong as it was
in Philadelphia, but they were showing the pregame the kickers kicking,
starting the ball left to the upright and it blowing
completely wide right by like five yards and I'm just
(04:20):
you know, I don't remember, and Flacco has been has
had no issues pressing the ball down the field. We
only have to remember back to October sixteenth to see
deep out after deep out after deep out, the play
to Higgins down the field to end the game. I
didn't see any plays like that by either team, and
I have to think we should probably temper a little
(04:42):
bit of our enthusiasm for the defense, not a lot,
but a little bit, and a little bit of our
displeasure with the offense if we have some on the
field on the weather conditions. So you just is that
fair enough or not?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I mean you were there. It was a little hard
to see on TV, like when the ball.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Was in the behind two planes of glass. Max Max
has the full the window of it is right in
front of Max. I'm behind two planes of glass, but
I mean the the But you.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Think when the ball was in the air, whether off
a foot or a hand or throw, it was an adventure.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So Ryan Rico in pregame looked like he was really
struggling trying to find out how to combat the wind.
I mean he was shanking balls, he was kicking him low.
He was trying to figure it out. The the uprights
were wobbling throughout most of the game, and the nets,
the kicking nets were billowing backwards. You know, seventeen eighteen
(05:33):
mile a hour wins. It had to be I'm guessing
it had I'm guessing it had to be a factor.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I saw Boswall during warm ups short from fifty two
yards going to the north end, sohoy taking but Fleco
got the ball down the field to Jamar Chase on
the deep post and James Spear slotted it. He did
hit one of those outs to Higgins that you.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Were talking about, but he had a step on him.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Completed a great deep ball back shoulder to h dk
Metcalf that for some reason got called past interference.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Maybe it was a fact, but I still want to
see more by the.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Way I want. You mentioned that on the Morning Show,
and it's funny. I thought live it might have been
a push off, and when I watched it on the replay,
I didn't think there was any way that was past interference.
Did they discuss that? Was that one of the ones
on TV that they right? I don't think they.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Went in depth on that, And actually what I saw
was no flag initially, and then I saw DJ Turner
was about it, and then I saw a flag.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
That was a late that sometimes the guy the optics
were bad, they were they were bad. Yeah, And I
think we mentioned that actually in the call, that DJ
Turner was asking for it and asking for it and
finally got it, just.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Like a machine.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Not the official's greatest moments either, I didn't. I didn't
think it was the cleanest officiating game.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
But there were a lot of issues.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, Orlando Brown or moving early every pass play makes
me insane.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know that is that is something that you see
around the NFL. Yeah, that drives me bananas and takes
away from pass rushes. I don't know whether they're tacitly
allowing that because they want quarterbacks to be upright. So, okay,
you got to line up. You have to line up
with your head over their waist. We're gonna we're gonna
be We're gonna knuckle down on that, but we're not
(07:23):
gonna knuckle down on you leaving that little bit of
second early that allows you to protect your quarterback.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
We'll enough time to get into it. But I've I've
harped on this for maybe close to ten years, and
it's getting the discrepancies even getting wider. One of the
biggest problems the league has is the defensive linemen are
way better than the offensive lineman, so they're giving them
a little bit of help. Okay, you know, look at
what the Steelers have upfront. I mean there's a loss
of raptors across every d line in the league. Just
(07:49):
watch an NFL combine and looking like, how those guys
ever gonna block all those guys? You know, I mean,
it's a it's a problem that such as life.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I think Troy Thanas picking up on that tech a
little bit too, might as well. Maybe somebody should tell
the guy on the other side, you know, you can
get away.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
With us push guards.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Having said that, it would be nice to you know,
you need to know what you can get away with
and not get away with, and not to I am
not an official griper. I do not get in. I
don't do it on the air. I figured these things
usually wash out. But if you want to know what's holding,
what isn't holding, go back the week before against the
Chargers pivotal call against Zach Frasier. I think it was
(08:31):
Zach Fraser who was called for the holding playing that
that brought the that brought the was that the the
pass to John Smith that was brought back? No, John Smith,
was it a touchdown that was brought back? It was
a first down for sure. Anyway, anyway it was there
was a dubious call. Yeah, that's let's flush that one.
Let's flush that.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
One Bengals game, the first Bengals game in the touchdown.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Actually, that's exactly what it was. And they wiped that away.
And I mean, think about the momentum swing with that right,
and you could have been up seventeen to nothing in
that game easily and you wind up losing the game.
So that which underscored the importance of this victory. I
do want to get into this discussion and let's talk
about the tight ends in particular, because and this is
(09:17):
something I've said about the offense. I think I'm right
in what they're doing. I don't know for a fact,
because nobody's come out and said it, but I just
think it's a very matchup oriented offense. And I think
it's been that way on defense too, although maybe less
so in the last couple of weeks of the injuries
they've had and maybe to their maybe they've been better. Yeah.
(09:42):
So I just think that what we're going to see
out of this receiving core is matchups that they see
that they think they can exploit. And that's that in
a given game. So but I can't have I can't.
You know, some people will say I need more of
Darnel Washing, right, Well, you can't have more of Darnell
(10:02):
Washington and have more of everybody else. You just can't.
There's only so many.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
We thought this on several Mondays, especially when you run
the fewest plays in the league, right, you know, like, well,
why doesn't this guy get the Baltimore? Why does this
guy get Walmarton? Like, you only run fifty five plays
a game, You're last in the league. They ran sixty small,
I mean before this game.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I'm talking, but they still didn't run more than
the Benkals.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
They still have not run more than their opponents.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
All season long. They haven't run more plays than their opponents.
That is issue number one. And I also think that,
and they were better about it this week. Obviously they're closer.
I also think that it's just this is just the
way it's going to be. I mean, Darnell Washington is
going to get the Lion's sheriff snaps in some games,
and it looks now like in a lot of games,
and that only leaves and then you bring in Spencer
(10:46):
Anderson for thirteen percent of the snaps. Well, you know
there's a there's more snaps being taken away from Friarmuth
and John new Smith and Calvin Austin and.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Let you put five skill guys out there, right right,
And here's my grand vision.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
You guys can correct me if I'm not seeing this.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
By the way, I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong,
so so a Pine, I'm just saying that's what it
looks to me, Like, Hey, this week, it's gonna be Friarmouth,
next week it's gonna be Calvin Austin. We're always going
to try to get to ball a dk Metcalf and
then after it and we're gonna throw them all a
lot to our running backs and after that.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I'm fine with it as long as somebody rises up
every game and is the matchup guy. I'm starting to
think that maybe these guys can't figure that out each
week because.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Lately we're not seeing anybody rise up.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And here's here's one while in the receiving game.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Here's my vision.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I would say Washington rose up yesterday and game well
rose up. I mean he was like Andre the Giant,
shrugging off.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Two touchdowns against the clown defense. They didn't do enough.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I can't stress how much you've stressed about the clown defense.
That's the worst defense on the planet. We can never
forget that. By the way, right team busts to arrive
at Akrocer Stadium. It was gonna be one of those
little cars.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
And then they were all just going to keep pouring
out of it. On the right. Here's what I saw early.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
In the season and what I thought was effective. Early
in the season, Metcalf and Austin were playing almost exclusively
in two wide receiver sets. Like it wasn't It wasn't
Metcalf and Roma Wilson, it wasn't Metcalf in skronic And
you had those two guys who are both deep threats.
If you cover either one of them single coverage, Rogers
(12:30):
was going to take a shot. We saw it with
Metcalf the New England game that won the New England game.
When when Rogers saw that Austin was gonna get single
coverage and they were to cover too, But somehow Rogers
knew the one safety was going to come down, and
it happened exactly that way.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Boom, game winning touchdown.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
If they're gonna stay in cover two and and not
give you the one on once, okay, good run the ball.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Now it's the time of year where you want to
run the ball. It might be windy. Run the ball.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
It might be cold and nasty in the aft North,
run the ball the in and out thing. I mean,
bench Kronick. I get he's a good blocker.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
He's been targeted.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Three times in ten games, right, what is this accomplishing?
And they haven't been running up and down the field
on people either. They're getting better running the ball, but
I'm not seeing enough consistent production from the offense. And
it is starting to concern me because it's starting to
look like last year and the year before and the
year before, and.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
That ain't good enough.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
So I look at what they did on defense, and
they kind of their hand got forced by the injuries.
But now all of a sudden, you have Dougger at
one safety and Ramsey at the other. You don't have well,
sometimes Ramsey's a safety and sometimes Ramsey's a slot guy.
Sometimes Ramsey's the outside corner, and sometimes Thornhill plays and sometimes.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Clark No that you're the free safety.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Two corners. You got Echos in the slot, and you
got your two safeties, and it's working. So pick three guys,
all right. If Washington is making over tight end beautiful,
he's one tight end. When you want to go two tights,
maybe Friarmus should be the other guy. If you don't
think you have a second wide receiver, maybe Jonas Smith
should be that guy, because Miami used him as a
(14:12):
wide receiver a lot last year and he had eighty
something catches and almost nine hundred yards and eight touchdowns on.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
A team with Waddle and Hill with bad quarterback playing.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I just I get the theory of being versatile and
having different guys for any kind of coverage you might
see or any kind of game plan you might want
to concoct. It ain't working, simplify it. Pick some guys
play football.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
So as you might not be surprised by I have
some snap count and percentage numbers for you. But I
will also say one of the knocks or one of
the criticisms right or wrong about Arthur Smith, especially when
he was in charge of the whole shebang in Atlanta
was I don't understand the rhyme or reason of why
Michael Pruitt's out there and not Kyle Pitts in Bijon
(15:01):
vers age years didn't get the ball right, right right,
star as to get the ball and fantasy people hated it. Yesterday,
I thought it was pretty telling, and I think to
your point, they're searching. I don't know what they're happy with, anything, groping, searching, whatever. Yeah,
so Washington, when they played eleven personnel, three receivers on
(15:21):
the field, one tight end, he was the tight end
ninety percent of the time and over eighty five percent
on third downs, so he's out there a lot. But
what's weird is when they had two tight ends on
the field, he was one of the two only thirty
six percent of the time. So if it's one tight end,
he was out there, if it's two, he's usually on
(15:43):
the sideline. I'm not sure the large logic behind that,
except for you want to become a little faster or whatever.
And then the other thing that was very different yesterday
was Roman Wilson really became the two and I think
Austin's in the doghouse.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I think again, why I terrible game against the Chargers.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
He did.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
But if you put everybody in the doghouse who had
a terrible game against.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
The Chargers, the whole offense, there would be nobody on
the front and the entire offense would be in the doghouse.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
So when they had two receivers on the field, Wilson
was out there fifty three percent of the time, Austin
was only out there twenty.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
I mean, do you get what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
All right? Hold on, I want to, I want to.
I want to continue this conversation. We got to take
a break. Okay, let's let's continue this conversation. We want
to do this. You're listening to the Point After presented
by you neighborhood Forward Store and the students Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at Shop dot Steelers
dot Com on DVE and this stee there's audio network.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Back to the point after on DV.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Back to pass. Look we left the game on the
left flat games Well shrugs off a tackle and gets
into the end zone for a Pittsburgh Steelers touchdown. Point
After presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and by the
Students Pro Shop, get it direct from the team at
shop dot Steelers dot com, here on DVE and the
Students Audio Network. That was the opening drive of the game,
(17:01):
eleven yard touchdown patch from Rogers to gain Well gets
around the left edge. Nice to see an eight play
seventy eight yard drive to begin the game, Matt. I mean,
you're talking about a team that you know was successful
order in the season. Remember when they had an opening
drive touchdown against the Jets. It was their first and
eleven games. So now they're maybe back to doing that,
(17:21):
getting the ball first, trying to put some points on
the board early, a long drive, running some plays, all
the things that hadn't been happening for this Yeelers happens
on that opening drive and it is not Warren out
of the left lat it's gain Well. And we're talking
about a little bit because Mike brought this up about
personnel usage on offense and whether you know they are
(17:43):
mixing and matching. They're clearly mixing and matching. Are they're
doing it too much? They need to just get their
best guys out there. You know your thoughts, because I
know you break down all these snap counts and who's
getting what.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, And a big reason I do it is to
try to get in the minds of the coaches to
see what they're thinking. And you know how effective they
are in different situations. Now I'll be just throwing out
there all of this conversation screams to me, you maybe
should trade for number two receiver and just everyone else
can figure it out. You know, player X could have
(18:15):
been your second receiver, because it seems like they're searching
or forget what word you used. It's almost like, if
you do you have two quarterbacks, you have none. Well,
if you have three tight ends, you have none. If
you have four number two receivers, you have none. You know, like,
are any of them good enough? Is what I'm kind
of throwing out there. If some of them? If Rowan
Wilson was a superstarved, he'd have been out there all
(18:36):
the time anyway, you know what I mean, Like part
of me just thinks and he.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Would get more than two targets and one catch.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, And by the way, he's out there but not
getting the ball.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Maybe maybe this is why they don't have enough plays. Yeah,
because they're not doing enough with the plays they have.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Like I'm not sure who their best five are I just.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You know, like I mentioned last segment, somebody needs to
rise up now. This guy really, to me that came
to doing that yesterday was Gainwell. He had twenty four
yards rushing and eighty one yards receiving. Now he ended
up playing sixty three percent of the snaps and Warren
played twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Okay, I'd like.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
To I mean, obviously an injury occurred, right.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I'd like to see that breakdown reversed. But play a
back seventy percent and play the other back twenty percent.
Don't don't try to equal it out, which we've seen a.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Lot in these games. Let a guy.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Both of these guys are capable of being a third
down back. You don't have to play one on first
and second down and the other on third down. You
could play one guy for two series or three series
and then let the other one have a series and.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
See what happens.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Same thing as Tight. I think Johnny Smith's a hell
of a player. I think Pat Fryern, who's the hell
of a player. They are not getting enough out of
either one of these guys, and I don't know if
that's the fault of these guys or how they're being used,
but what I'm seeing is not enough offensive production.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
So what I'm arguing is change the way you're doing this.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
The way you changed and had to change it defensively
because your injury situation.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
You kind of lucked into it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
The stability in the secondary that they keep promoting is
the catalyst for better defense.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Maybe that'll help you on offense.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know, Pat Fryar without one hundred and eleven yards
receiving against the Bengals in the first matchup.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
He got one target yesterday.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, okay, what so like a huge thing I talked
about leading up the Bengals game is like the offense
is struggling. Let's get the ball in Metcalf, Warren and
Friar Moose hands. However you're gonna do it this designer
plays sounds like a plan, right. I Mean I thought
they were the most reliable they've all been around.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And I thought that doesn't work in next week, Let's
make it Metcalf, Warren and John Neus Smith.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And maybe it's Washington not Friar Moose. Maybe I just
picked the wrong tight end, you know, but like they
seem the most reliable, well rounded, have had the best
careers to date. Let's simplify things. Let's do designer plays
where we pick friar moose guy and he gets open
and the balls going to him on the first read.
You know, like a lot of teams do you know,
they get their best players of the ball, and you
can do that. In this league, they kind of did it,
(21:10):
you know. I mean in that game, well by default
had to be the guy. And it reminded me of
the Vikings game in Dublin, where I was happy that
he showed he could be the guy when the time
came with a heavy workload and he had a really
good game. You know, like I think we're let's not
forget that he played really well yesterday.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
You know he did, but they kind of loucked into
that because of the Warren injury.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But war was playing better Ryan Perry's for sixty two
yards at that point defense ever. But you know, I
think it's I think it's I think it's interesting because
there's there's a there's just so many things to parse out.
What the there's an old line, sorry, Matt, because you
love stats and I also love stats. There are lies, there,
(21:54):
damn lies and their statistics, right, So what what do
you want the statistics to say?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
How I some of mine?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And by the way, I love it. I love the
Matt's stats and I love gleaning through him. And and
you know, you're at some point in the season, I think,
and I think we're at that point. You have to
say the statistics carry weight, right, So there are certain things.
For example, the Steelers didn't run more plays than the Patriots. Well,
what if Kyle Dugger, you know, comes up with an
(22:23):
interception and is immediately tackled. They run more plays, so
they have a five minute time of possession advantage. Do
you want to give that Dugger play back?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Do you want to give back an Adyr touchdown pass
the DK Metcalf? No?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
But you score twice on defense, It's hard to run
more plays than the oppeunent.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Right, and explosive plays and other things that are happening.
But at some point over the course of a season,
and I think, Mike, this is probably your most compelling argument.
So I'm talking about matchups. So I if I want
to talk about matchups, I can say, okay, well they
clearly thought gain Well in the Flat was a really
good matchup and game well had seven receptions for eighty
(23:03):
one yards. Let him clearly, we thought Darnell will scrimmage.
Does it matter now? Seven receptions for eighty one yards.
Darnell Washington four receptions sixty seven yards. Those are the
matchups you thought you could exploit. The other team gets
coach to try to take away DK Metcalf. If we're
going to say you got Chase and Higgins, well, if
(23:24):
you're the opposing team, you got one guy. You got
to take away Metcalf for sure. And that's been what
has it been five games now where he's averaged under
forty yards in the last five games receiving per game,
So he's been held in check for quite some time.
So on the one hand, you can say, hey, the
matchup stuff is working because we're finding different heroes in
(23:45):
every game and we're six and four, right, we have
a winning record. But then you take a look at
all the numbers and okay, we can excuse time of
possession because Metcalf has a big play so you have
a one play drive, you're getting defensive touchdown, so that's
taking away possessions your offense. But I think you know,
in total, you're only two games over five hundred. You've
(24:06):
not run more plays than your opponent at any one time.
You're the worst, have the lowest, the worst three and
out percentage in the league offensively, So is this working?
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Clearly not.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
So that's where I think you can.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You can.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
On the one hand, you can say, look look at
the matchups, Look who is the hero this week and
that week? Look at our record. On the other hand,
you can look at the overall numbers and wonder.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I liked I mean in the early going in particular,
when they were they were struggling more than they are now,
but Rogers was able to make just enough place to
win right when they were winning games. And New England
game is a great example. They struggled mightily, got off
to that hot lead early in the game, and then
they couldn't do anything but got that last turnover, game
was on the line, or able to drive.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Down and score a touchdown win the game. Just it.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
It's looking a little too familiar to me now in
terms of what it is capable of producing. And you know,
I'll take the win thing into consideration. Let's see what
happens next game. I don't know they're going to the
Windy City, so This might not be the best time
to test your theory, but I just I got to
see more from this offense.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I didn't know if they're gonna win. Yesterday.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I showed up at the stadium thinking, well, Bengals are
scoring thirty five ish. Oh yeah, let's let's see what happens.
And it way completely the other way. Defense was really good,
the offense wasn't. But they need more from the offense
otherwise it's just the same kind of thing that we've seen.
It'll be good enough to get there, but not good
enough to get anywhere once you do.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Would we be feeling this way about the offense? Matt
Do you think if that Chargers game wasn't right in
the middle of this stretch of games, because it appeared
to me, you know, from DOUBLEE on right, you started
to feel Okay, hey Dublin, you started to run the
football with Kenneth Gainwell, the running game is pretty good.
Wasn't great against the Colts, but but you still got
(25:58):
two rushing touchdowns Jalen Warren in that game, you know,
you beat a previously once beaten team. You know you'd
scored thirty plus points against the Bengals. Would we be
thinking this way. If that Chargers game happened in Week two,
would we be thinking better thoughts about this offense? Do
you think?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Now, let's say last week they had an average offensive
performance and they didn't like the world on fire and
beat the eighty five Bears by forty or anything, but
they had an average offense. Wo ms I think, But
I mean, I hope the Chargers game is the low
point for the offense. I mean, and it has better
to day. I mean, it was as low as you
(26:39):
get in this league. But I mean somewhat of the
elephant the room is too, is I think the quarterback
was playing better early in the year than he has
the last two or three games, you know, and including
the Colts game. But you got so much splash on
defense you didn't need as much from the offense.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
One of the comments from Aaron Rodger after the game
against LA you know, he was asked and like I thought,
is I thought his postgame comments mirrored what I was
questioning and wondering about. Did you step in and sacks? Well,
I'll have to look back at the tape. I don't
know that he didn't dismiss it, right, you know, talking
(27:19):
about he needed to be better for sure. He also
said guys weren't open. He didn't see guys open. Are
we seeing guys open? So if Aaron Rodgers is back
and is expecting a play and it's not there and
now he has to shift around in the pocket, it's
a quick timing pass or what have you? Look that
(27:41):
could that could upset the timing of everything. And I
guess the question is, now, is there any chance defenses
have seen some things as Steaders do well in the
passing game and have taken that away, And now the
Steaders are gonna have to adjust a little bit in
the passing game to help Aaron Rodgers and to help
the passing game out a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yes is the answer. I mean, I was so impressed
with the Chargers defense, execution, toughness, doing your job. Jacksonville
not so much apparently, no, no, right right, But they
were like doing things like bud Dupreeze dropping into the
short zones because everything's such a quick hitter for Rogers
(28:19):
in the passing game, and I think you're gonna see
more and more of that. I almost want to throw
the Bengals game away because they just have bad players everywhere,
like I remember you guys asked me on the pregame show,
like you and Jerry are like, well, they're historically bad
in all these categories.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
What do you see?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I'm like, they have anybody that's any good.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I thought Miles Murphy had a good game yesterday.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
I have the double Jack But okay, I.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Thought he played a pretty good game. But yeah, but
I mean they're what was the stat eleven top one
hundred players taken in the draft by them since twenty
twenty one on defense? Yeah, and they were gotten.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Oh, they just keep investing, keep investing, right, because all
their money.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Is on offense, and they've been changing coaches.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, and he gets he's been told to do it
pretty well.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Right.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Absolutely, I don't know. I think the passing game in general,
and frankly, I would still like to have been more
run heavy, especially every one of these games the Chargers
run defense was their weakness. I still think you need
to be a run, run first team. And because the
passing game is sort of problematic right now, it's amazing
(29:21):
though we've talked this much about negative things and Steels
played pretty good game Bengals yesterday.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And let's finish this off and then let's get back
to some of the positives, because there is one more
factor mic that we can't possibly know, which is play call,
play design versus changing plays at the line of scrimmage.
You know, I go back to the play the week
before where Aaron Rodgers thinks he has dk metcalf on
a slant and you know, it's second and four, and
(29:50):
instead of pitching it wide the balls at the ten
yard line second and six, instead of pitching it wide
and a go for it situation, you pitch it wide
to Jalen Warren. You know, there's a a certain situation
where if that's if that's like a young quarterback like
a Kenny Picket or a Duck Hodges, he's pitching the
ball to warn he's not. But I've got the best,
maybe one of the best, well certainly one of the
(30:11):
best ever do it, maybe the best ever do it
at the line of scrimmage. And he thinks he's got
a slant. I'm not going to tell him no, right,
So you have to balance that out too. We don't
know how many things are being changed the line of scrimmage,
and it's not all the tapping on the side of
the head. Maybe it's uh, you know, maybe other things
are happening pre snap that I don't know about. So
(30:31):
the point being that I find it very very difficult
to judge if I'm trying to point a finger blame
at somebody. Who to judge other than to say that
we'd like to see you'd like to see more from
the offense in general, Mike, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
It's it's a very valid point.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You know, it comes down to quarterback play, and it
was it was working just well enough early in the season.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Not early in the season, up for much of the season.
Yeah pre Chargers, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
He went in with the top ten quarterback rating.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I was thrilling with a Rogers up until the charges gout.
I thought he played a bad game. Now, as we
had talked about last week, DK metcalf bends the route
on the deep ball in the first quarter should be
seven to nothing. Instead, it's an incompletion that changes the
way things flow. But in that sequence you mentioned with
the bud dupre playing, you know, he checked out of
the toss because he thought he had this slant. On
(31:22):
the next down, he played chuck and duck and missed
gain while who was wide open in the flat. Now,
that's not a running back usage thing or a divisional
labor thing. That's an execution thing. Better execution would cure anything.
I just think I'd like to see them give guys
a chance to heat up and get into the game
and and maybe be out there consistently enough to make
(31:43):
more plays.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I don't know that everybody is interchangeable. Maybe on a
dry erase board they are. Maybe when you're breaking down
tape they are. But they're human beings and they're playing
a game. And you know, Pat Fryermuth think is has
more talent than his statistics would suggest. I think there's
(32:06):
more meat on that bone.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I've kind of thought that for years about for years.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
He's been so reliable. I think he's a really.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Good player, and I don't understand why he doesn't put
up more numbers.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Steter nations like trade him.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
He's worth it.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I'm like, no, he's good at what he does.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But he hasn't had a great quarterback play either.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I've been a fan of the John hus Smith trade,
and right now he hasn't had more than twenty eight
receiving yards in a game.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That's crazy to me.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
In a game crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I thought he would have I thought he was going
to have big numbers this here.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
So what the whole make I Fitz patch up trade
ended up producing was make his replacement and a guy
who hasn't had more than twenty eight receiving yards per game.
To MAT's point, maybe they should have been more aggressive
about a second receiver, or maybe they need to give
a guy a chance to be that second receiver. If
it's Austin, if it's Wilson, if it's John hus Smith,
(32:58):
maybe maybe the answer is lining him up on the
other side of the field is dk metcalf and having
him run receiver routes and then nobody's open. Well, hey,
it's the NFL. They're rarely open. That's why you have
a Hall of Favor to give you a perfect ball
placement so a guy can make a play.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
At Clearview Federal Credit Union, they're always upping their game
for those in need through touchdowns for hope. Clearview will
donate five hundred dollars to the Light of Life Rescue
Mission for every black and goal touchdown scored this season.
Visit CLEARVIEWFCU dot org. Slash touchdown to learn more. Back
with more on the Point After, presented by our neighborhood
Ford Store and by the Steelers Pro Shop Get It
Direct from the team at shop dot Steelers dot com
(33:34):
on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Back to the Point After on DVE.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Back to Pats looking throws out to the right flat
at is complete to Noah and fant two hands around
the pull, but still lost it. It's picked up by Pierre,
Pierre racing down the left sideline, summersaults into the end
zone and a second defensive touchdown for the Pittsburgh ste
And thanks for being with us for the Point After,
(34:03):
presented by our neighborhood Forge Store and this year's Pro
Shop Get it Direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot com. That was a great punch out because
did he had both hands around the ball and they
still got it out of there and raced back for
the touchdown.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Phenomenal And I think you really got to call out
Echoles and Pierre specifically, but the whole defense played well.
They had tough assignments against the best pair of receivers
in the league. You know, we do that Thursday matchup
show with Missy and by no means where we're going
to say eliminate Chase, like that's too bold. You know,
just don't let him destroy you. You know, the same
(34:39):
thing we've said, like about Jonathan Taylor. You know, they
took two of those, both those dudes out in very
short amount of time. And again so many of the
backups stepped up well opportunistic on defense. It wasn't perfect,
but that is a really good offense. That's a total
opposite of the crap ass Bengals defense conversation is peer
(34:59):
still backup, not.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
The bab no no, no. Well, and here's you know,
first of all, I.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Mean, unless Samuel is going to knock him off, but
Pierre over Sleigh.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
That's yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I mentioned this many hours ago on the on the
Morning Show on DV. But Adolf of the cap to
the personnel department for finding guys like Kyle Dugger, who
obviously turn up a big play in this game, Brandon Eckles,
who ideally was going to be your fourth corner, but
has that capability even a Jalen Ramsey to be able
to move from corner to safety, although that was probably
(35:30):
more well known. But you know, and James Pierre kind
of sticking with him. I will say this about Pierre,
he was a guy that they thought, Remember there's some
buzz about him Milli in his career, capable of being
a starter. Now he's off and on the roster. He's
a special teams gunner. What are we going to do
with him? He's on the practice squad. It shows and
so I do want to congratulate them for putting together
(35:52):
this team this year, the front office, but ultimately the
players have to play. And James Pierre, congratulations to him
because he looks like in the last few weeks, and
Mike Tomlins singled him out for praise last week in
his Tuesday press conference that he is developing into the
type of player this year's thought he could be at
some point. And Eccles coming over with his athleticism, we
(36:13):
knew he could be a good special teamers. But those
two guys emerging gives you renewed hope if you're a
Steelers fan that hey, okay, you move Ramsey to free safety.
This is the best secondaries looked the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, Eccles, I'm not as surprised about Pierre has God
bless him he's gotten better at cornerback, and he you know,
he got he made the team initially because he was
good on special teams and then over the years he'd
get periodic shots in corner it wouldn't go very well,
and you know that's why he got kind of kicked
back to that guy that Danny Smith has to argue
(36:46):
for right at every cutdown day, like, well, he's not.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Gonna help us on defense, but I need him. You know,
he really helped him on defense, and almost Matt one
hundred percent. The only guy I want to see put
him back on the bench is Sante Samuel. If he's better, great,
If not, there's your reporter and and Pierre and Pierre
should be your cornerbacks. And I thought you might crash
back to earth like yesterday. I leave him out there
(37:11):
like he's looked good every step of the way lately,
and I'm like, well, this could be quite the test
and we might be like that Pierre experiment was fun,
but he passed us lying.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
But there was a play against Higgins.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I mean the play against Geword Chase was a great play,
but Higgins caught a ball on him.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
And he tackled him like they're tackle to catch.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Dick Lebo used to pound that into those guys all
the night. Don't let a fifteen yard play become a
thirty five yard play. Everybody's the NFL. You're gonna give
up some completions, just limited damage.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Who was it that for the Broncos he was talking about?
Oh god, was he talking was advanced Joseph. It was
one of their had the right name of one of
the receivers who said, we was talking about another receiver
in the league, and he said, the Venus de Milo
has better hands than he does. So the statue, the
Greek statue that has no arms but the body block
(37:58):
attempt on a tackle. Oh does that drive me bananas?
Use your arms, wrap him up, take him to the ground.
Kyle Duggart, watch Kyle dugger tackle. He's not sure he's
not hit right. Yeah, that's how it's done. I don't
understand the whole shoulder thing. I don't know if it's
a I have no idea what that's all about. Bring
your arms, wrap him up, take him down. But listen,
(38:21):
it's Sante Samuel coming in and all of a sudden,
Now you could feel with with the way Ramsey solidified
the free safety spot. You could start to feel pretty
good about the way this defense in the secondary is
looking right now, and that scratches kind of the last
little piece off your puzzle, or should I think the
front line's been good. You know, Keanu Benton's got a
(38:41):
career high in sack. I think sacks. I think both
rookies have shown flashes, particularly Harmon and Cam Hayward. You
have the edge rushers, the linebacking situation Peyton Wilson I
think continues to get better.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Matt.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
You have good guys to rotate in there. This defense
and the way they played, not only making the splash
plays like the one we just heard about and Kyle Duger,
but just playing good defense. And with Samuel's not they
Sama kind of hanging out there is maybe another guy
to add. That's pretty good. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's clearly the best spot the defense has been in
all year. And sure they've had some attrition and they
had to play with a lot of dudes. High Smith's
a really good player. They didn't have them at their
disposal yesterday, but that happens. I mean, you're week eleven.
The NFL people are not going to be healthy across
the board, but they've found a lot. It took a
little while. The one thing you kind of mentioned there
too was even when they were winning games early in
(39:31):
the season, the defense just down after down wasn't good.
I mean, they allowed a lot of yards, a lot
of successful plays, and then they have the big sack
or the takeaway or the strip or whatever. Lately, they've
been good down and down out and getting the splash,
you know. And I do think to Mike's point we
started the show that I think they've finally figured out
(39:53):
where all the pieces of the puzzle were supposed to go,
and they're kind of leaving them there.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I got a lot of confidence in them again. Yeah,
I had a lot of confidence when the season started.
It went away quickly. But they are figuring it out.
And they got some what's the scouting tournament, They got
some dudes.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
They got some dudes. I was really worried when Ramsey
got kicked out of the game. I'm like, because uh,
echoes looked like he was banged up. I'm like, all
of a sudden, I don't get any corners.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I was actually over at the facility this morning and uh,
Mike Tomlin was cornering Ramsey the way shooter corner Gene
Hackman and Hoosiers and said, you got to give me
your word it will not be thrown out of no
more day.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Yeah, Drew, No, I didn't know. It's uh.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, he's gonna remember that scene. I well, I just
you know, but when you tied it into actually seeing
somebody in person up the bit, okay, good, good job.
I didn't know where we were going there. I'm a
little slow sometimes. Well you guys know that you worked
with me, because thanks man, I appreciate it. So, uh
you are killing it, so thank you. So yes, I
(41:04):
do feel better about the defense. I would still like
first half, third down defense. Second half much better. Yeah,
but so a third and eleven early on. You know,
because Matt, in your stat packet, you point out not
only has this to Tho's offense been the worst at
converting drives into either touchdowns or first downs, the defense
has not been very good at getting off the field
(41:25):
and preventing those situations either. So the amount of plays
we're seeing largely I think my own opinion is that
the offense hasn't carried its share of the burden. They
haven't sustained enough drives to keep the defense fresh and
to give the defense a lead, which then gives you.
Now the quarterbacks got to hold the ball a second longer.
You become more predictable, you get more turnovers, you get
(41:48):
the ball back to the offense again. I think it
starts mostly with the offense, but the defense has to
have taken some culpability for those statistics through this point
of the season.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I would love to stop talking about the time of
possession issues because everything you mentioned, it all leads up
to time of possession really terrible, you know. And I
thought early in the year it was the defense couldn't
get off the field. Then lately the offense couldn't covert
on third downs or get you know, couldn't sustain drive.
So it's been whack a mole to some degree of
how do you fix this as a team situation? But
(42:22):
I do think there have a chance to improve. I
would have run the ball more the past two weeks,
a higher percentage. I think the defense is in a
pretty good spot on in all, so, I hear you,
I mean, I'm still encouraged that it'll get better this
last portion of the season. Leading into that game. If
(42:44):
you look at just the snap counts. The defense was
basically on pace to play like three more full games
than the defense. You're gonna lose guys left and right. Yeah,
you're gonna lose guys.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Not a great statistic to have an albatross hanging around you.
But it's a great job ever thing.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
That's running through these huge holes in the fourth quarter
because they've been out there forever, and they've been out
there all year.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
You know, I totally agree with you, and so now
again just stack the wins. You had to have this win.
I think you almost have to have this win coming
up against Chicago. The Ravens are going to be seven
and five I think when they come when they when
they host the Steelers on December seventh. Actually they had
I think it's somebody in the Bengals. I believe their
next two opponents, right, So.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I give them the Bengals game at home Thursday night
AFC North game.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Ravens weren't impressive.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
The Ravens Browns, Yes, I did, Yeah, that I did.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
That was this rock.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Fight as it gets in this division. And Cleveland didn't
have a quarterback, right, they still have still almost won
the game.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
I cannot score that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I still I still think, yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
FLA is gonna have something for the Ravens.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
I don't see Baltimore as this juggernaut. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Well, the look at the look at who they've beat
and who they've lost to. They haven't beaten anybody any
good except Chicago, and they've lost every other good team
they've played except Chicago, and their wins are against struggling teams.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I think yesterday was significant for the Steelers. Your guy
Max told us on the pregame show. The players needed
that win. They they know what's going on better than
anybody else, and it was gonna be hard for them
to convince themselves they could still go win the division
if you couldn't beat the.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Bengals one out of two. Yeah, mathematically was a must.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Five and five, six and four not that big a
difference emotionally, mentally for everybody's sanity's sake.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Six and four, five and five, world of difference.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
At home after the Charger loss.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
You know, right, so third time in the last four
weeks that they're going to be facing a first place team, right,
They beat the Colts, lost to the Chargers, get a
break from the Bengals, and now they're taking on the
first place Bears, who got worked over pretty well by
the Ravens a few weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
But they're sort of similar. Bad defense, good offense.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And they can run the ball on a lot of
that's Caleb william but not a time. I mean, he's
a good runner, but they have good running, a good
stable of running backs, and they will present a physical challenge.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, And Caleb Williams is getting better and better, and
you know he's got a very good receiving core. They
reboilt the offensive line in the offseason. This will be
a formidable challenge against the Bears on.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Sunday, never an easy place to play. I don't know
if you'll have Rogers or not. But he has a
great history against the Bears. But I'm guessing he doesn't play.
I don't know who knows.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
Pittsburgh does not have a good history. No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
But you know, people around here, Steelers get a bunch
of turnovers, and people for some reason are like, well,
you can't cut on that every game, Like that's a
negative that your defense creates turnovers.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
They've abably been doing it straight for like five years.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Chicago's three losses this year, the Bears have generated one
turnover Chicago's seven wins This year, the Bears have generated
twenty one turnover plus sixteen.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Right, they're number one in the league.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I say against Minnesota, protect the ball, keep Caleb william
in the pocket, and you can beat these guys with
Mason Rudolph love it.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, he's my persuative. He's Matt Williams and Justin Miller
at the controls, I'm Rob King. We thank you for
listening to the point after presented by your neighborhood, Ford
Stour and the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct from
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com, on DVE
and the Steelers Audio Network
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.