December 1, 2025 • 45 mins
The trio of Rob, Mike, and Matt break down the current state of the Steelers after another difficult loss against the Buffalo Bills as the black and gold fall to a .500 6-6 record.
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Well, thanks for being with us for the point after,
presented by your neighborhood at Forge Store and by this
Cheerer's Pro shop get it direct from the team at
shop dot Steelers dot com here on DVE and This
Steeler's Audio Network alongside Mike Persuda and Matt Williams. And
I'm rob king. It was more than a day since
this Steelers took the field against the Buffalo Bills, and
(00:34):
I don't feel any better about it, Mike now than
I did twenty four hours ago.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I must feel worse.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, yeah, No, here's the thing I get. You know,
you win some, you lose some.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
T J.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Watt comes out after the game. It says, we're just
not an ass kicking defense right now. And what worst
thing can you say about a defense?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Really?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And this is in the way of Cam Heyward after
the Green Bay game talking about not enough fight. You know,
the game in Cincinnati, they were ahead with two minutes left,
came down to the very end, last minute, lost tough one.
Chicago had a chance to tie or win it late,
couldn't get it done. Tough one. Even the Seattle game,
take away one or two goofy things. And that's a
(01:18):
that's a neck and neck fight. That thing turned last
night and it was over. It was over after the
sack strip scoop score very much like the Green Bays
trending that way.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, ahead of that.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I mean, how many of these do you have to
have in a season before somebody does something about it?
When I say somebody, I mean the collective, somebody, No.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
A thousand cent here you.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
And it's funny because we all watched the games in
different locations. Rob you're on the air, you're in the
postgame show. Nine out of ten times, I'm in my
lazy boy at home by myself. And then on Monday
I start running into you guys and Wes and everybody
else and what'd you think?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know?
Speaker 5 (01:56):
And sometimes it feel a little better after a loss.
Today it's like Mike said, I don't feel any better
about the loss. Like the Steeler run game was bad.
The Steeler pass game was really bad. Steelers run defense
was unbelievably bad. The punting was bad. Their pass defense
(02:17):
might have been good, but because of everything else, I
just mattered. I said, it doesn't matter one bit. I mean, so,
I mean, I don't know what you take out of
that game. Positive I mean I tried to figure out
were there are two or three players that had good games.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Maybe yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Thought Eccles did other than that, see them all when
I watched again, was pretty good, you know, But I mean,
we're reaching.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So there's a I'm a big fan of James McMurtry,
singer and songwriter. He has a line, some you win,
some you lose, some you throw away, right. I'd love
to throw this one away, Mike, and I normally would
if it wasn't for the fact that I saw a
very similar game a couple weeks ago against green Bay.
(03:05):
Like you said, you fought back against Cincinnati, You fought
back in one against the Jets, who are not very good.
We know that you fought back against Chicago even though
you came up short. There was no way to stem
this tide. And you can see where for fans it
would be very easy to lump a game like this
and a game like green Bay into what we saw
(03:28):
at the end of last season when games just got
away from this Steelers Philadelphia. There was some fight, you know,
if not he doesn't fumble, maybe there's more fight. But
then in the fourth quarter, latter stages of the third
and the fourth quarter that just got away from you.
Baltimore first meeting got away from you, Baltimore second meeting
(03:49):
got really got away from Chiefs got away from you.
There was no point in which, either offensively or defensively,
or special teams wise, in which the tide was stemmed.
And that's what it felt like yesterday. And that's why
I think fans are super discouraged after this game. This
is not a game you throw away because it feels
(04:10):
like other games that the Steelers have lost in recent vintage.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, and the really head scratching part continues to be
their wild inconsistency. I was telling Matt before we sat
down here. We were just chatting outside over some food,
and I didn't know what to make of the game
leading up to it. And then I watched Chicago and
(04:35):
Philadelphia on Friday and the Bears just ran through the
Eagles like they weren't even there, and I thought, Wow,
Steelers defended that running attack. We knew it was a
good running attack when the Steelers played the Bears. Steelers
defended that running attack very well. They defended the Colts.
We know how good Jonathan Taylor is. They defended that
running attack very well. They must have the run defense
(04:56):
sorted out. I don't think Buffalo can pass because of
the attack situation. Therefore, I think they're gonna win. And
first play nineteen yard run against the nickel and off
we go.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And another TJ. Watt revelation.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Normally he doesn't have much to say after the game,
and he didn't have much to say last night in
terms of length of interview, but he really said a mouthful.
He said he couldn't remember words to the effect I'm paraphrasing,
couldn't recall seeing a team just run the same play
over and over again and have such success.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And they tried base defense, they tried nickel defense. They
tried four defensive linemen, they tried three inside linebackers, they
tried three outside linebackers. They should have tried fifteen guys.
Maybe that would have worked.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Unbelievably frustrating. And you know when you see and look,
I mean, we should point out again this is the
most bizarre year in the NFL I can ever remember.
I mean, you think about like the Jets are not
the Jets. I'm sorry. The Dolphins just worked over the Bills.
Team worked them over. The Falcons handled this Bills team.
(06:04):
Those are two teams that aren't very good that smoked
the Bills. So I don't know what to make of
the you know, the Giants beat the Eagles on a Thursday.
I don't know what to make of this year. You
had a stat that I just there's a couple of stats,
Matt that I'm like, Okay, this this points to what
I think I see, which is that this team is
(06:25):
better than they've, for whatever reason, been able to collectively
put together. And that stat was that heading into this weekend,
there were four teams in the NFL, four who had
led in every game.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah, on the scoreboard, were winning at one.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Point, winning at one point in the game. Only four teams,
that's it. Yeah, the Steelers were one of those teams.
There they going into this game. And by the way
they led in this game, of course, they were six
and five. The other three teams were twenty five and eight.
How does that make any It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Well, I think a ton of it is because, as
we say on many of these Mondays, the opponent is
running way more plays than you and it gets away
from you. I mean, you cited a lot of games
I mean they were winning at halftime against the Bears,
winning at halftime against the Packers, winning at halftime.
Speaker 6 (07:18):
In this game, Seawks Seahawks as well, and got the
ball and got the bottles and getting the ball briefly
last night, not long right, twelve, so five minutes ago,
a couple of minutes ago.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
You were citing some of those games as well as
some last year, including the Eagles the Ravens in the
playoffs where it got away from and at the end
it really wasn't a battle. Now, I don't take any
solace in this, but the teams we mentioned in that
conversation are the best in the league. I mean, we're
talking about the Bills, the Eagles, the Ravens, the teams
(07:54):
have had the most success over the last couple of years.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
But Steelers are six.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
And eleven in their last seventeen games. I mean, to me,
that screams you're definitely not in that class and you
might not even be in the tier below.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That is that is a that's I hadn't thought about that,
And that's not good. No, it's not good.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
On the other hand, you know, and this, Mike, this
was why I thought there was more. There is because
you played against you. Look at Seattle, that's an elite team, right,
and think about that game. You had to lead at halftime,
you got the ball in the second half, you don't
recover a kickoff, you throw an interception in the end zone.
(08:38):
That's what's gonna happen. You're gonna lose a game like that,
right And you know, I can go on and on
and talk about every single game and what happened, what
transpired in that game, but at one point I'm looking
up and saying, Okay, Seattle's elite. You had your chances
to beat him, the elite. Green Bay's elite. You had
a chance to beat him. The Colts are elite. You
beat him. The Patriots are elite. You beat them. So
(09:03):
what I thought I saw with this team, with this roster,
and I'm still not quite giving up hope yet. It's
harder after a game like this. For sure, I'm not
giving up hope yet. But what I'm seeing is a
team that a couple of years ago, when they played
elite teams, there was a threat they might get blown out.
I mean blown out last year even in those games,
(09:24):
you know, late in the third quarter against Baltimore, you
tied the game late in the third quarter against the Eagles,
you were marching in to try to tie the game.
You were at least within shouting distance. Ultimately, were you
good enough? No, you lost the last five games. But
I thought I saw a step closer to those elite
teams because at least you played with them for three quarters.
(09:46):
And then I thought I was seeing another step this year,
which is, Okay, hey, we're fifty to fifty against the
elite teams, but a game like last night's game, Mike,
makes it harder to see it that way.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, I think it's the start of this year. I
was pretty happy with. And it's been a different offense
to me since the Chargers game, and different offense in general, different.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Airon Rodgers in particular.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And I know he's working around the injury and whatnot,
And you know, I think in retrospect, we fielded a
couple three calls on the postgame show last night about
if you hadn't known he was going to be a
shotgun the whole time, would you have started him?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And my answer would be absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You know, we heard from him last Wednesday he said
he hadn't taken snaps from center yet, but he was
hoping to do that on Thursday. Then by Friday the
designation was removed. He was full participant. I mean, I
just think they handcuffed themselves. They should have been running
the ball down Buffalo's throat in response to Buffalo running
(10:49):
the ball down their throat. Yeah, but I think it's
a lot harder to do when you're in.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
A shotgun every now.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Angle.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
But I just hate that decision and.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The Chargers thing.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
They couldn't figure out what to do without Seamalo on
the offensive line, and well, let's play Spencer Anderson, except
let's take him out and put on the speed in
so we could put Anderson at the seventy four is
eligible thing and then take him out and then put
him back in.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And they're they're not making it easy.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
On themselves with some of this overthinking of the process.
And I gotta believe some of what went into their
decision to play Rogers in the state he was in
last night was their dissatisfaction with how Rudolph played in Chicago,
both not hitting any of the deep shots, giving up
a sack strip fumble, and then not being able to
(11:39):
get him in the right formation at the end. Of
the game when Rogers could see from the sideline they
were in the wrong formation.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I think they thought they needed his veteran head out there.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
But he was playing no pun intended with one hand
tied behind his back, and he wasn't very good.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
And then Rudolph comes in this game and did a
small sample size, but he looked worse than ever, you know,
So what's what's the answer? So a couple of things.
It stood out to me too, Like it's one play,
but there was a play where John new Smith was
lined up as like an inline tight end and Spencer
Anderson is the extra lineman was kind of a detached wing,
(12:16):
and that's cute.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's something different.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
I mean, I assume they wanted to get a ball carrier,
you know, behind Anderson out in space.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But in the meantime they had John who trying to
block Rousseau one on one.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
That was the fourth and two, right.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
I should know that and I don't.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
But he just totally four Yeah, I mean, it's he
just totally dominated him. He's the worst guy in the
roster to try to do that with against a big
four to three defensive end who's really good.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
At what he does.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
And even like the Steeler passing game, I could make
a strong argument that Metcalf and Friarmuth are their best receivers,
their best pass catchers. Once again, Metcalf's average depth of
target was under five yards under five yards and friar
Mooth ran nine routes. I mean, I need run many plays,
but how are you gonna do anything in the passing
(13:06):
game using your best guys that way? And they're not
Randy Moss and Gronkowski, but they're the best guys you got.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
There's a chicken and egg to that, and I do
want to get to that topic because I think it's
a really good one and really interesting one, and we're
gonna do that when we continue with the Point After,
presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and the Steers Pro
Shop get it direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot Com on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Back to the point After on DV.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
The handoff warn't straight up the middle following Anderson into
the end zone touchdown, Pittsburgh Steelers our high watermark the
Jalen Warren touchdown plunge on a six play thirty nine
yard drive. You give an excellent field position after the
turnover point after is presented by your neighborhood Ford store
and by the Steers Pro Shop. Get it direct from
(13:56):
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com, here on
DVE and the Steelers Audio Network. You know, Matt, you
said something that I wanted to get into a little
bit further as in regards to getting guys the ball
and only nine you know, only nine routes run by
Pat Fryermouth. The Steelers ran forty three offensive plays, yeah,
(14:17):
forty three, and they've only out snapped their opponent once
all year. I can't remember was that Chicago Cincinnati?
Speaker 5 (14:25):
I forgotten now Chicago, they won the time of possession Cincinnati,
they might have had one more snap.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, nine sixty one or something something was it was.
It was the one time where they got up to
it kind of. And you had the statistic that at
the pace going into the Bears game, the defense will
have played three more games.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
In the yell.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I actually looked at it right before we hit record.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
The opponents have run one hundred and fifty nine more
plays than the Steelers one hundred fifty nine.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That's almost three games already already.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Still six to go. Five to go right, five to.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Go, you can one hundred and fifty nine more plays.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So part of me and the explanation I'll come because
there's there's different people asking different questions, and all of
them to me are legitimate. Why isn't Jalen Warren getting
more carries because we don't have the ball enough? Why
isn't dk Metcalf Getny more targets because we don't have
the ball enough? Why is right we can't target him
(15:21):
with the ball unless we actually, you know, have the
ball right now? Having said that, there's a bit of
a chicken an egg to that too.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
A thousand How do you better possess the ball as
you give it to your best guy?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And I think, my, my, I guess my question is
you know with with you know? Mike Tomin basically says,
after these games, Amen, nothing is off the table, right,
nothing's off the table. And I wonder if maybe is
simplifying on the table. It's just saying, okay, let's let's
get it to our best guys. Let's let's let's just
go ahead and do that. And maybe that means a
(15:56):
reduced role for somebody else. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
I mean, I thought they were trending that way over
the last few weeks. Anyways, just from things being said,
we get war in the ballmore, we get Friar move right.
I don't understand the Friarman stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I don't either.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
That one to me shocks me more than anything.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
You're paying that guys some money too.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Rogers always likes to say I get it to the
guy who's open, but in Green Bay it always seemed
to be DeVante Adams.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Or Jordan Nelson.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean, yeah, he's just the guy who's open all
the time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I talk with Metcalf about that in training camp, because
every drill started with at least one, if not two,
consecutive passes from Rogers to Metcalf because they were trying
to build chemistry. And I asked Metcalf, is he's throwing
these the ball on purpose to start these drills? He said, no,
he's throwing it to the guy who's open. But I'm
always open. He's not always open now, and I think
(16:51):
Rogers I admire his I go to the open guy
kind of big picture of philosophical approach, and that's probably
got a lot to do with why he is better
at protecting it. Than anybody. But at some point you
got to go to your playmakers, right, I mean, yeah,
maybe they should identify who those guys are and throw
it to them.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
And to me, that's Metcalf than friar Mouth in terms
of who's your best pass catchers. I mean, Johnny Smith
seems unbelievably unreliable and he's doing a lot more than
friar Mouth, which I don't understand. I'm a big Washington fan,
keep him out there all the time, but that doesn't
mean he I don't know. I don't have a problem
with his usage. To be honest with you, I also
(17:32):
have watched a lot of All twenty two tape this
year where no one's open, and that might have been
the case last last night yesterday to some degree.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Too, it is something that Aaron Rodgers has said, Yeah,
guys aren't open, and it feels that way. I mean again,
I'm and I have to apologize this to and and
I think I do this on all these shows. I
have to watch the ball. That's my job. The days
where I could every can see if.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Every show, yes they get it.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Are they are they rolling for cover two to cover?
You know? You know, I can see if they're trying
to bring pressure. I can look, you know, a couple
of yards off the line of scrimmage one way or
the other. But it's my job to follow the ball.
That's what I do. But it doesn't seem like there's
a lot of guys open. And I remember, you know,
I remember having this this uh, this conversation with my
(18:18):
son Schaeffer about you know, George Pickens and you know, hey,
what a great contested catch. I said, well, that's great,
but I'd like to see some uncontested catches too, you know,
I'd like to see him running open over the middle
of the field and then what's gonna happen? And and
it just doesn't. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem, Mike,
like there's a ton of guys who are.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Open, and when they are, they don't hit them.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And go back to the second series last night, Roman
Wilson's behind the corner start and ten he's down the sideline.
It's a big chunk play, minimum might be a touchdown,
and Rogers overthrew him. He said, oh, I thought the
wind was gonna knock the ball down.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
I mean, I mean you mentioned many times there's four
or five in the Bears game.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, big plays left on the field.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I watched the we were doing the pregame show on
Sunday and I was watching Carolina play the Rams and
twice on fourth and short in plus territory, Carolina went
for it, found one on one, covers deep and scored
touchdowns on fourth and one or fourth and two, something
of along those lines.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Against the best team league.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You don't get a ton of those shots in the NFL. No,
you gotta hit them. You gotta hit them. Yeah, you
got him, You hit them, you win, you don't you lose? No,
I agree. I don't know way to scheme around that.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
And I think it gets exemplified because you don't throw
the middle field very much, you know, I mean, you're
just not People know where the ball's going. It's short
or it's deep. Still, you know you're saying that last week,
and they found the way.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
God blessed Mason Rudolph.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I think he's great backup, and I think there was
a time when I thought they'll be okay with him
as the starter. If that's the worst case scenario, I
could live with that. He's found a way to get
picked along the sideline in consecutive games.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yeah, his interception overthrown.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Those shouldn't get picked. No, that's why.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
That's because they're saying, right, why you throw.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
The sideline rout to?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, there's a lottery ticket and free beer in the
middle of the field.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
There's also turnovers.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Oh yeah, why.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
They avoid it right right?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Because they're playing that game and statistically they should be
playing that game. But when you not only miss on
the sideline but.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Get it picked, you get taken negative.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Now you've got real problems.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Which right here we always sit right right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right, yes, here we sit. And I think that you know,
all season long, Matt, I have blamed If I was
going to blame one unit or the other, or cercize
one unit more than the other, it will be the
offense for not keeping the defense off the field more
this this talk about plays and time and possession, and
(20:52):
eventually the defense is going to wear down. And I
think that has been a culprit. I think that's been
a problem that the Steelers have run into. I don't
think that was at all the problem yesterday. Certainly the
offense did nothing. They did nothing the first play, one
hundred and twenty five yards rushing in the first half.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
This was a problem coming even at half time. Yes,
you did.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
You know in the other games it would have been
it would have been Look the the those other three
games that we mentioned, four games. You know, Chicago didn't
get out of hand. Green Bay shouldn't have gotten out
of hand, Seattle shouldn't have gotten out of hand. This
you know, I'm not green Bay, did I say or
did I say green Bay?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Either?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Those games shouldn't have gotten out of hand because you
got the ball to begin the second half, right, you
had an opportunity to drive, to sustain a drive, and
and and it wasn't like you were being badly outplayed
in the first half or anything like that. They did
a great job on Jacob's against Green Bay. In this game, Taylor,
they yeah, Jonathan, they needed a drive to begin the
second half because they they weren't really getting the job
(21:58):
done defensively. They caused a couple of turnovers. But the yardage,
the running yardage was.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
I thought the game is more lopsided going into the
break than the score obviously indicated, or any stat other
than rushing yards indicated or time possession. And you kind
of knew I've seen this party before it's an older defense.
It's been out there a ton this year. Still have
Josh Allen, which is scary as could be, and Cooks.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Running all over you.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
You better come out of the locker room and have
a meaningful drive. I mean, even if it's ten plays
in a punt, a meaningful drive and hold the ball
a little bit and establish something you can build on.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Late short in the game, at the very least shortened
the game, but hopefully, hey, what happens again? What happens
if you go down and you score a touchdown and
you make it fourteen to three? What if you go
on to seven and a half minute drive? Are they
starting to think differently about how they're going to manage
the game? Is James Cook getting all those carries? And
Ty Johnson? And are they getting all those carries? Are
(22:56):
they thinking, now, you know what we got? We got
you know backup starting at tackle, but we have to
trust him. And now what happens, Well, now Alan's trying
to make a play down in the field, so he's
patting the ball longer. So what happens? Your defense comes
to the forefront. But having said all that, I get it,
and I do believe that once again, the offense didn't
help out the defense last night, But last night, Matt
(23:16):
I thought the defense didn't help out the defense.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
A thousand percent. And nobody helped out anybody last yesterday. Frankly,
I mean again, but there was something that's very true
through the end of that from start to finish that
game that really bothered me in that their tackles are
bad and played bad. I mean, they helped them like crazy,
(23:39):
but they never were asked to do a lot of
hard things because they never really threw the ball. And
their pass catchers are bad and played bad, you know,
like they didn't have anything in the passing game except
for Allen, and you still couldn't stop the run. Like
I'm not saying put fifteen guys in the box, but
I mean, like if they beat you through the air
in the second half.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Because you're so dedicated to stop in the run, so
be it. At that point.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
I mean, you're just taking body blow after body blow
and not having any defense for it. I mean, at
least they were bad at something, but you couldn't use
that to your advantage.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You know, And I imagine it would be like a
little bit like Mike facing Muhammad Ali in his prime,
which is that you know he's going to hit you
with the left jab and there's nothing you can.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Do about it.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I mean, this was frustrating because I think this, I
think this has tried to do different things, but there
was just nothing they could.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Do about it. Yeah, they tried everything they could think of.
And what does that tell you?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, I don't either.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Maybe there isn't an answer.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I know, you know, Derek Henry's probably sitting there watching
tape as we speak, rubbing his hands together, thinking, Okay,
time for me to get right because I think he said,
what four hundred yard games this year? That's it? Something
like that, right, sixty yards each his last two games,
give or take.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
But how can you do that? How can you? And
that this is the question fans are asking, how can
you give up the most yards rushing at home in
a game in fifty years? Half a century was the
last time somebody ran for that many yards against the
Steelers at home? And yet you did a great job
on Jonathan Taylor for half anyway, you did a great
(25:17):
job on Josh Jacobs. He held the Bears under one
hundred yards. That was the leading rushing team in the NFL.
You know what, they weren't the leading rushing team in
the NFL coming to this week because you held them
under one hundred yards, so that the new team was
the Bills.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
It makes no sense, and I can't believe he's a
good player, But Derek Harmon's absence is the only thing
that's really changed, right, And they did really run either
to his left or his right over and over. They
didn't run left.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Hardly at all.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
I mean, so I think his absence mattered. And I'm
not picking on these guys because they really shouldn't even
be out there and I don't even know their names,
which is terrible, but OTTOWENU and new hyphen guy shouldn't
be out there at all.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
They were really bad.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Roderick Martin Yes, and uh oh told me woe fig
Martin Road. What I said, Roderick Martin, Broderick Martin Road.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they used to be Roddick Martin.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Then he added the hyphen got Martin rose right now.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
It didn't help him stop the run any better.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
No, uh it just again, this is one of those ones.
And again, you know one other thing I'll throw in
there to Mike the inability to stem the tide. And
then and and you know the dk Metcalf unsportsman like
conduct happened in the first half, but you know that
that's not a good look either, Like you can't find
(26:41):
a way to stem the tide, and then you commit
three unsportsman like conduct penalties, you know the one at
the end of the first half on Peyton Wilson. You'd
used your time outs and you got to that point, Okay,
we got the ball to fifty six yard line, got
like fifty or twenty six yard and got like fifty
seconds left. Let's go kick a field goal, right, Let's
kick a field goal. And now you know, now we
can maybe get a little momentum going at a halftime.
(27:03):
And then and then that obviously that pinge you deep
and you don't really have the opportunity to do that.
But all of it, the inability to stem the tie tide.
That's why I like the young sportsman iconic penalties. If
you have one game like this against Green Bay, like
I said before, some of you win, some you lose,
some of you throw away. But well, you know again,
fans are going to say we've seen this before.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
They have, and.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I wish I had something concrete to pin it on,
but I don't. I think the performance against Indy was real.
I think the performance against the Bears was real. Last
night was real too. It was real bad yep. So
they have that, they're capable of that, and you know
they have everything to play for moving forward still, which
is amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I'm starting to think the Bengals going to win.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
This division or they won't. Playing well.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
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(28:15):
it direct from the team at Shop dot sales dot
com on DVE and this steel there's audio Network.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Back to the Point After on DV.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Give to Cook on the LA and Cook has hit
and dropped in the back of your cam. Hayward came
barreling through to make the stop back at the eight
yard line. A loss of three in the play. Not
enough of that that game at a time that's a
gam Hayward stop of James Cook and came at a
time where you're just looking, hey, man, if you can
hold him to a field goal, at least you can
(28:49):
think about two touchdowns to two point conversions, because that's
where you were at the game. But Matt, they just
couldn't even think about that. And by the way, you know,
you talk about bad optics or I've been talking, come
about bad optics, the inability to stem the tide offensively
or defensively, and also the the you know, unsportsman like
conduct penalties. That isn't a good look either. And also
(29:13):
not a good look was the short run to Kenneth
Gainwell on fourth and one fourth and a long one
trying to go in and get that touchdown and two
point conversion. Of course, if it works, great call, What
a great call of course the quarter. But again, all
this stuff, you know, I mean I run into this
in baseball a lot. You know, how come the team
(29:34):
just doesn't look like they got any energy. Well, that's
because joey Atani held you to two hits and six
innings and you're not gonna you're not gonna look like
you have much energy there, and so you're not gonna
look like you look dispirited, and you look like you're
not trying. And you know, you get the penalties and
the different things that happened in the game, but that again,
it was just it was a bad optics evening for
(29:55):
this yeers and that was one that made it look
bad also.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
And I'm big on the not trying thing in this sport.
I mean it, that's easy for us fat old people
sitting in our lazy boy to say why we're watching
the game, you know what I mean. But one thing,
and this is not an excuse, but it makes me bonkers,
is Thursday nights on the road are unbelievably hard on
(30:21):
these players, and playing against a team that has a
huge rest advantage is unbelievably hard on these players, and
the numbers bear it out to no end. If I
bet more might take a note rest advantage, just bet
on those teams and for what And They're gonna go
back to back weeks playing a team with a major
(30:42):
rest advantage. That should never happen, Like the team should
have called the league when the schedule came out and
been like, we gotta play this team with ten days
off compared to our seven, and then do it again
the next week. I mean, that's an unbelievably terrible situation,
and the league's really bad about that stuff. They probably
lose the game no matter what, but I mean, those
(31:03):
things matter, and don't forget that these bodies are beat
up and they've played nine thousand plays against a team
with the rest advantage, and it looks bad at the end.
Don't get me wrong, but man, I mean, that is
not an excuse. But I did want to just get
that on the air. Makes me crazy.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I was trying to find positive, you said Isaac Cimolo
after watching it again. Yeah, why are you black in
the first half, I thought, you know, and again a
larger snap count I'm assuming for him by the end
of the game. I didn't see what his snapcount was
by the end the game. I thought early on he
showed Echols came up with an interception, but.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Uh, miss defense as a whole wasn't bad. Yeah, it
wasn't called upon.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
It wasn't called.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Matt.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
This is a hard game to in which the signal
single out many positives. Mike, Mike I'm sorry, did I say, Matt,
did I was looking at you?
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
You did look past I did look I did the padma.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I don't want to talk about positives because I can't
think of any. I do want to get this on
the end though, following up with Matt making his point,
you know it's open season on Mike Tomlin right now,
and I get that, but I hear this tired cliche narrative. Oh,
the game has passed him by, and these two setting
(32:22):
his ways. And let me just tell you, if you
watched the Buffalo Bills play last night, they didn't have
their starting offensive tackles. They threw the ball sideways. When
they threw it, it came out in about half a second.
They ran the football with physicality. They stopped the run
with physicality. If you could run the football.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
They didn't reinvent the wheel, as you could do.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
A lot of things because running the football will never
go out of style. And if you are a coach
who values running the football and not turning it over,
these are in your favor. These are good characteristics to have.
Doesn't mean you're gonna win, but let's let's try to
at least keep your eye on the ball about what
(33:05):
should be.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Criticized eight no, in the last eight games that they
haven't turned it over.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
So it does.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
It does kind of mean they're going to win the game.
And clearly, you know, Andy Widel talks to the media,
and of course Andy Widel you know, worked with Omar
Khan in the front office for the Steelers and he
you know, so Omar will talk to the media and
Andy Widel has a session with the media before the
last preseason game, and last year he talked about wanting
(33:32):
to get more physical on both lines because that play work.
That kind of play works if it's if it's one
hundred degrees in Miami, it works, if it's ten degrees
in Buffalo, it works. Last night raises floor, that's right, Yeah, yeah,
it raises every floor. And now we're talking about who's
defending the ball the least well. You are because you're
(33:53):
running the ball down the other team's throat, you're running
more plays. Even if you're not running more plays, you're
controlling the clock, you're keeping them cold, you're keeping your
defense rested, your march, you're pummeling the other team. All
that's what the Steelers have stated, that's how they want
to play, and at times last week in Chicago, they've
done it. At times defensively, they've done it when they
(34:16):
stopped Jonathan Taylor, and even again last week in Chicago.
I don't know why it's been elusive defined on a
more consistent basis.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Yeah, And you know, speaking of front offices and Andy
and etc. They've put their money where their mouth is
in terms of draft picks. I mean they've drafted big people.
I mean Benton Harman, offensive line galore. I mean, I
love Kevin Colbert, but he really didn't draft offensive lineman
for ten years. I mean he also had pouncing the
(34:43):
castro that last of the time. But I mean they've
dedicated their resources to doing it. So to me, it
raises three questions. Did you draft the wrong guys?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Or are the.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Right guys being used wrong? Or is it just not
here yet because they're young? You hope for three right?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
For sure, I've seen lots of signs of it being three.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, you know, And I do think that's extremely well
laid out. And I do think that that's the question Mike,
people are going to have after a loss like this.
You know, Uh, okay, you drafted these guys are they
any good now?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Then?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
You know, of course a lot of people want to
jump on.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
The coaching right.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, you know they have. I think there has been
some underneath roster churn as they've tried to get younger
and tried to get more guys who were younger.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
You know, this regime took over a roster that in
many ways was aging and needed to be replaced with
younger and hopefully better players. And I do think that,
you know, just to take a step away from this conversation,
I do think eventually they'll come to a point in
which they might draft a defensive lineman and an offensive
lineman every single year.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
But but they're not there yet.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Look look around the roster you're trying to I mean
last year you went out in free agency and via
trade and got corners. Well, those are typically guys that
take first round picks. You know, you just saw Broderick
Jones go down if you need to, if you don't
pick up his fifth year option and don't resign him. Well,
typically a left tackle that's a first round pick. That's
a quarterback that's a first round pick. Everybody wants a
(36:22):
number two receiver. Okay, if you don't get him in
free agency or via trade. That is probably a first
round pick as well, or could be a first round pick.
So in other words, what I'm saying is there's still
work to do underneath this roster.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
The wish list seems to keep growing.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
The hope is that, Yeah, the hope is that five
years after you've taken over, you have these draft choices
are all here. The only the only draft choice that
isn't on the roster now Logan Lely isn't playing is
Ryan Watt because he got hurt. He had a neck injury.
But then the three years they've drafted, everybody, even the
late round picks are on the roster. They made the team. Well,
I think it's because you had having to.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Replace guys, and a point about are they the right
guys but they're being used wrong or are they just
not there yet? I mean, Roman Wilson's pretty deep into
the season now and he had one target for zero catches.
I believe he had zero target, zero catches in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I mean, yeah, Rogers missed him last night.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
He's playing more and more.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, one target and he's playing more and more.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
They ain't getting done.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
There's no production. There.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, they went out and got DK Metcalf and they're
paying them a ton of money.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
He had three catches for thirty two yards and this
is not an outlier.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Seven street weeks.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I think lay was a healthy scratch last night. Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
It was said by Mike tomlin Beck in training camp,
Sleigh Porter and Jaye Ramsey would.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Never leave the field.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, never got on the field last night.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
So I mean there's a little uh I think Matts
phrase he's brought up from time to that's whack a mole.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
They seem to solve one problem and another one sticks
it set up and you go try to hammer that one,
and there's two more over here. And maybe that's why
you're six and six because you just can't get an extraction.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
Well, a couple of things I want to bring up.
It's just this is a big picture thing and we're
not there yet. But their group of free agents to
be isn't going to hurt this team that much. If
they all walk out the door, and if there's anybody
they want to keep, it won't break the bank. And
they do have a ton of picks going forward, and
they do still have a lot of cap space, so
(38:30):
I'm a thousand percent with you. There's no way in
an offseason you're going to get a number one corner,
a number two receiver, a starting left tackle, and a
quarterback in the draft.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I mean doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Nope, you could have four picks in the first round.
You're not gonna get that. But there are there is
some big picture thinking here that I think people should
be at least be aware of in terms of what's
walking out the door. And Roder Jones is going to
be on this team next year, even if you don't
pick up a fifty year option, right, so you might
(38:59):
have a year to figure it out, right, But it's
far from my ideal. Don't get me wrong. Yesterday was
a perfect example, but it crosses my mind almost every
Seiler game. And this is not a knock on Rogers
because he's forty one years old, But.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
You know what else raises the floor a lot having a.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Quarterback that can run, yep, I mean this team not
having that being able to get out of trouble or
I mean, Herbie got clean shots on Allen and couldn't
get him down. And I know he's the best that's
out there, but boy, when things aren't well, and your
quarterback can just get eight yards and go out of bounds.
I mean, let alone make big plays or be ben
in the pocket boy, it's helpful, and they don't have
(39:36):
that at all.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Joe Burrow is a guy that can shift and move around,
and he can run on occasion. But when you look
at most of the young quarterback CJ. Shroud's more of
a pocket guy, clearly, But Jayden Daniels is mobile, Drake
May is mobile, Bo Nick's is mobile. I mean a
lot of these young quarterbacks, Caleb Williams who we just saw,
these guys all have the mobility factor and I think
(39:58):
it's something that Mike tom Win once.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
But hey man, that's whether they're interested in fetal Right.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
You know, there's lots of things we want, but if
you don't have it on your roster, you coach. You
coach with what you have.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And they one a guy that can complete a pass first,
you know, being defense and complete, well were they value
that more than the running ability? But you know, back
to the whack a mole analogy. I mean, I watched
the end of Denver and Washington last night, and well
Nicks through a touchdown pass falling forward. He was almost
(40:32):
homes like, you know, and he didn't have a great game,
but I think it was a terrible game. They won,
but it was just one of those plays that made
you go, holy cow, there's not a lot of guys
that can do that.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
No, it's but but that, but that is the way.
And so we had to call Max and I earlier
today in the locker room and to call somebody saying, hey,
you know, get get a guy like Joe Milton. Well
you have to throw it first, right, and Joe's an
athletic guy, and he's got a cannon for an arm.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Gotta be able to fall out of a boat and
hit water.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Right, that's right, you have too far off the first
and then ask any GM the capacity to run is
maybe closer than it's ever been for that ability to throw,
but it is still number two.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
But this goes back to Daddy Shanahan when he drafted
RG three. And like Kaepernick, there's a lot to figure
out for all these quarterbacks. But if you're an elite athlete,
you can survive as you learn, you know what I
mean those first two three years, I can throw you
out there even though you don't know how to readcover
just perfectly, or your ball placements not where it needs
(41:30):
to be because you're a really good athlete.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
So one thing did happen last night that I thought
was interesting, which is Sante Samue for the first time
in a year and a half got into some game action.
He was a guy that a lot of people thought,
prior to his neck surgery, was one of the top
free agents available and a solid and legitimate starting cornerback.
I'm not again trying to throw anybody out the door,
but again, we did talk about that laundry list of
(41:55):
needs and that you usually typically have to spend first
round picks on. Hey, Dre Jones going to be here
and starting, I would imagine it left tackle for you,
and and if even if they don't pick up his
fifth year option, he's going to be starting. And Sante Samuel.
That's why I was thinking, man Corey Trice, you know,
I know they're intrigued by him, but Samuel, that could
that could wind up being a nice pick up again,
(42:16):
not not only for for for you know, down the line,
but let's circle back to this year, right, I mean
he could I'll be interested to see what.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Right that's right, right, right, right, And you've gone for
nothing and and and so kind.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
We are we are looking right, we are looking for
some sort of positives from last night. Maybe, Mike, maybe
that will be a positive as they get ready to
take on a Ravens team. Like like you said, they
have got to be have fond memories of the last
two times these two teams played and their ability to
run the ball in the Steelers after what they saw
(42:52):
last night against the Bills.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, and they've got their issues too.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
I mean, they just lost on Thanksgiving night at home
to the Bengals and their stadium was empty by the
end of that game, and they look terrible. But yeah,
they're probably uh anticipating these Steelers visit. I would add
one more positive since you're looking so hard and determinedly, Yes, determinedly.
Frisbee dogs at halftime. Man, Oh, they're good, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You know what again, as I've said before with my
own dog, four paws down and a canine move before
you can call that a completed Frisbee Okay, No, four
paws down, knine move.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
What's a canine move?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
What's a football move?
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Man?
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Move?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Come on, seriously, man, so so Matt, you know, look again,
I'm trying to I'm trying to circle out of here,
because look, the game was the game, man, and we're
not doing it justice if we don't talk about the
things that struggled, because it was a struggling game. But
nothing has changed as far as your potential outlook for
winning the division, and so is as bad as last
night's performance was, you still have an opportunity to go
(43:56):
to Baltimore, win that game, be in first place, and
once again be the team that everybody else is trying
to chase down.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
Yeah, that that's still true.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
I mean, the math of it all still exists, and
it actually works in your favor in my opinion, that
you play Baltimore twice. If you can win both those games,
they have a very good chance to win the division
and host a playoff game.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yep, if you will from there, If you win both
of those games, you gotta win one more.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
You gotta win one more, basically, yeah, yeah, not basically, Okay,
that's the math of two.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, because that would get you to nine, and if
you beat them twice, the best they can do is
get to nine and you will put all loss two
to you.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
How about the Bengals, They can get to nine. Can't
they run the table? Yeah, they run the table.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, it's interesting though their schedules not horrific. Cincinnati's they
still have the Ravens at home if they can hope
the Ravens and steal a split, which is a fairly
reasonable anticipation. Yeah, Borrow's won like how many in a
row a lot?
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Yeah, he's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Like he is you think it?
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Higgins back, Huh, Yeah, it's possible.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
At clearroow Federal Credit Union, they're always upping their game
for those in need through touchdowns for Hope. Clearview will
donate five hundred dollars to the Light of Life Rescue
Mission for every Black and Gold touchdowns scored this season.
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Matt Williams and four mic persuita for our producer Justin Miller.
I'm Rob King. We thank you for listening to the
Point After presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and by
(45:25):
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at shop dot Steelers dot com.
Well, thanks for being with us for the point after,
presented by your neighborhood at Forge Store and by this
Cheerer's Pro shop get it direct from the team at
shop dot Steelers dot com here on DVE and This
Steeler's Audio Network alongside Mike Persuda and Matt Williams. And
I'm rob king. It was more than a day since
this Steelers took the field against the Buffalo Bills, and
(00:34):
I don't feel any better about it, Mike now than
I did twenty four hours ago.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I must feel worse.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, yeah, No, here's the thing I get. You know,
you win some, you lose some.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
T J.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Watt comes out after the game. It says, we're just
not an ass kicking defense right now. And what worst
thing can you say about a defense?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Really?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And this is in the way of Cam Heyward after
the Green Bay game talking about not enough fight. You know,
the game in Cincinnati, they were ahead with two minutes left,
came down to the very end, last minute, lost tough one.
Chicago had a chance to tie or win it late,
couldn't get it done. Tough one. Even the Seattle game,
take away one or two goofy things. And that's a
(01:18):
that's a neck and neck fight. That thing turned last
night and it was over. It was over after the
sack strip scoop score very much like the Green Bays
trending that way.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, ahead of that.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I mean, how many of these do you have to
have in a season before somebody does something about it?
When I say somebody, I mean the collective, somebody, No.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
A thousand cent here you.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
And it's funny because we all watched the games in
different locations. Rob you're on the air, you're in the
postgame show. Nine out of ten times, I'm in my
lazy boy at home by myself. And then on Monday
I start running into you guys and Wes and everybody
else and what'd you think?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know?
Speaker 5 (01:56):
And sometimes it feel a little better after a loss.
Today it's like Mike said, I don't feel any better
about the loss. Like the Steeler run game was bad.
The Steeler pass game was really bad. Steelers run defense
was unbelievably bad. The punting was bad. Their pass defense
(02:17):
might have been good, but because of everything else, I
just mattered. I said, it doesn't matter one bit. I mean, so,
I mean, I don't know what you take out of
that game. Positive I mean I tried to figure out
were there are two or three players that had good games.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Maybe yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Thought Eccles did other than that, see them all when
I watched again, was pretty good, you know, But I mean,
we're reaching.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So there's a I'm a big fan of James McMurtry,
singer and songwriter. He has a line, some you win,
some you lose, some you throw away, right. I'd love
to throw this one away, Mike, and I normally would
if it wasn't for the fact that I saw a
very similar game a couple weeks ago against green Bay.
(03:05):
Like you said, you fought back against Cincinnati, You fought
back in one against the Jets, who are not very good.
We know that you fought back against Chicago even though
you came up short. There was no way to stem
this tide. And you can see where for fans it
would be very easy to lump a game like this
and a game like green Bay into what we saw
(03:28):
at the end of last season when games just got
away from this Steelers Philadelphia. There was some fight, you know,
if not he doesn't fumble, maybe there's more fight. But
then in the fourth quarter, latter stages of the third
and the fourth quarter that just got away from you.
Baltimore first meeting got away from you, Baltimore second meeting
(03:49):
got really got away from Chiefs got away from you.
There was no point in which, either offensively or defensively,
or special teams wise, in which the tide was stemmed.
And that's what it felt like yesterday. And that's why
I think fans are super discouraged after this game. This
is not a game you throw away because it feels
(04:10):
like other games that the Steelers have lost in recent vintage.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, and the really head scratching part continues to be
their wild inconsistency. I was telling Matt before we sat
down here. We were just chatting outside over some food,
and I didn't know what to make of the game
leading up to it. And then I watched Chicago and
(04:35):
Philadelphia on Friday and the Bears just ran through the
Eagles like they weren't even there, and I thought, Wow,
Steelers defended that running attack. We knew it was a
good running attack when the Steelers played the Bears. Steelers
defended that running attack very well. They defended the Colts.
We know how good Jonathan Taylor is. They defended that
running attack very well. They must have the run defense
(04:56):
sorted out. I don't think Buffalo can pass because of
the attack situation. Therefore, I think they're gonna win. And
first play nineteen yard run against the nickel and off
we go.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And another TJ. Watt revelation.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Normally he doesn't have much to say after the game,
and he didn't have much to say last night in
terms of length of interview, but he really said a mouthful.
He said he couldn't remember words to the effect I'm paraphrasing,
couldn't recall seeing a team just run the same play
over and over again and have such success.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And they tried base defense, they tried nickel defense. They
tried four defensive linemen, they tried three inside linebackers, they
tried three outside linebackers. They should have tried fifteen guys.
Maybe that would have worked.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Unbelievably frustrating. And you know when you see and look,
I mean, we should point out again this is the
most bizarre year in the NFL I can ever remember.
I mean, you think about like the Jets are not
the Jets. I'm sorry. The Dolphins just worked over the Bills.
Team worked them over. The Falcons handled this Bills team.
(06:04):
Those are two teams that aren't very good that smoked
the Bills. So I don't know what to make of
the you know, the Giants beat the Eagles on a Thursday.
I don't know what to make of this year. You
had a stat that I just there's a couple of stats,
Matt that I'm like, Okay, this this points to what
I think I see, which is that this team is
(06:25):
better than they've, for whatever reason, been able to collectively
put together. And that stat was that heading into this weekend,
there were four teams in the NFL, four who had
led in every game.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah, on the scoreboard, were winning at one.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Point, winning at one point in the game. Only four teams,
that's it. Yeah, the Steelers were one of those teams.
There they going into this game. And by the way
they led in this game, of course, they were six
and five. The other three teams were twenty five and eight.
How does that make any It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Well, I think a ton of it is because, as
we say on many of these Mondays, the opponent is
running way more plays than you and it gets away
from you. I mean, you cited a lot of games
I mean they were winning at halftime against the Bears,
winning at halftime against the Packers, winning at halftime.
Speaker 6 (07:18):
In this game, Seawks Seahawks as well, and got the
ball and got the bottles and getting the ball briefly
last night, not long right, twelve, so five minutes ago,
a couple of minutes ago.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
You were citing some of those games as well as
some last year, including the Eagles the Ravens in the
playoffs where it got away from and at the end
it really wasn't a battle. Now, I don't take any
solace in this, but the teams we mentioned in that
conversation are the best in the league. I mean, we're
talking about the Bills, the Eagles, the Ravens, the teams
(07:54):
have had the most success over the last couple of years.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
But Steelers are six.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
And eleven in their last seventeen games. I mean, to me,
that screams you're definitely not in that class and you
might not even be in the tier below.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That is that is a that's I hadn't thought about that,
And that's not good. No, it's not good.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
On the other hand, you know, and this, Mike, this
was why I thought there was more. There is because
you played against you. Look at Seattle, that's an elite team, right,
and think about that game. You had to lead at halftime,
you got the ball in the second half, you don't
recover a kickoff, you throw an interception in the end zone.
(08:38):
That's what's gonna happen. You're gonna lose a game like that,
right And you know, I can go on and on
and talk about every single game and what happened, what
transpired in that game, but at one point I'm looking
up and saying, Okay, Seattle's elite. You had your chances
to beat him, the elite. Green Bay's elite. You had
a chance to beat him. The Colts are elite. You
beat him. The Patriots are elite. You beat them. So
(09:03):
what I thought I saw with this team, with this roster,
and I'm still not quite giving up hope yet. It's
harder after a game like this. For sure, I'm not
giving up hope yet. But what I'm seeing is a
team that a couple of years ago, when they played
elite teams, there was a threat they might get blown out.
I mean blown out last year even in those games,
(09:24):
you know, late in the third quarter against Baltimore, you
tied the game late in the third quarter against the Eagles,
you were marching in to try to tie the game.
You were at least within shouting distance. Ultimately, were you
good enough? No, you lost the last five games. But
I thought I saw a step closer to those elite
teams because at least you played with them for three quarters.
(09:46):
And then I thought I was seeing another step this year,
which is, Okay, hey, we're fifty to fifty against the
elite teams, but a game like last night's game, Mike,
makes it harder to see it that way.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, I think it's the start of this year. I
was pretty happy with. And it's been a different offense
to me since the Chargers game, and different offense in general, different.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Airon Rodgers in particular.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And I know he's working around the injury and whatnot,
And you know, I think in retrospect, we fielded a
couple three calls on the postgame show last night about
if you hadn't known he was going to be a
shotgun the whole time, would you have started him?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And my answer would be absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You know, we heard from him last Wednesday he said
he hadn't taken snaps from center yet, but he was
hoping to do that on Thursday. Then by Friday the
designation was removed. He was full participant. I mean, I
just think they handcuffed themselves. They should have been running
the ball down Buffalo's throat in response to Buffalo running
(10:49):
the ball down their throat. Yeah, but I think it's
a lot harder to do when you're in.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
A shotgun every now.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Angle.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
But I just hate that decision and.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The Chargers thing.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
They couldn't figure out what to do without Seamalo on
the offensive line, and well, let's play Spencer Anderson, except
let's take him out and put on the speed in
so we could put Anderson at the seventy four is
eligible thing and then take him out and then put
him back in.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And they're they're not making it easy.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
On themselves with some of this overthinking of the process.
And I gotta believe some of what went into their
decision to play Rogers in the state he was in
last night was their dissatisfaction with how Rudolph played in Chicago,
both not hitting any of the deep shots, giving up
a sack strip fumble, and then not being able to
(11:39):
get him in the right formation at the end. Of
the game when Rogers could see from the sideline they
were in the wrong formation.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I think they thought they needed his veteran head out there.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
But he was playing no pun intended with one hand
tied behind his back, and he wasn't very good.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
And then Rudolph comes in this game and did a
small sample size, but he looked worse than ever, you know,
So what's what's the answer? So a couple of things.
It stood out to me too, Like it's one play,
but there was a play where John new Smith was
lined up as like an inline tight end and Spencer
Anderson is the extra lineman was kind of a detached wing,
(12:16):
and that's cute.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's something different.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
I mean, I assume they wanted to get a ball carrier,
you know, behind Anderson out in space.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But in the meantime they had John who trying to
block Rousseau one on one.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
That was the fourth and two, right.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
I should know that and I don't.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
But he just totally four Yeah, I mean, it's he
just totally dominated him. He's the worst guy in the
roster to try to do that with against a big
four to three defensive end who's really good.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
At what he does.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
And even like the Steeler passing game, I could make
a strong argument that Metcalf and Friarmuth are their best receivers,
their best pass catchers. Once again, Metcalf's average depth of
target was under five yards under five yards and friar
Mooth ran nine routes. I mean, I need run many plays,
but how are you gonna do anything in the passing
(13:06):
game using your best guys that way? And they're not
Randy Moss and Gronkowski, but they're the best guys you got.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
There's a chicken and egg to that, and I do
want to get to that topic because I think it's
a really good one and really interesting one, and we're
gonna do that when we continue with the Point After,
presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and the Steers Pro
Shop get it direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot Com on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Back to the point After on DV.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
The handoff warn't straight up the middle following Anderson into
the end zone touchdown, Pittsburgh Steelers our high watermark the
Jalen Warren touchdown plunge on a six play thirty nine
yard drive. You give an excellent field position after the
turnover point after is presented by your neighborhood Ford store
and by the Steers Pro Shop. Get it direct from
(13:56):
the team at shop dot Steelers dot com, here on
DVE and the Steelers Audio Network. You know, Matt, you
said something that I wanted to get into a little
bit further as in regards to getting guys the ball
and only nine you know, only nine routes run by
Pat Fryermouth. The Steelers ran forty three offensive plays, yeah,
(14:17):
forty three, and they've only out snapped their opponent once
all year. I can't remember was that Chicago Cincinnati?
Speaker 5 (14:25):
I forgotten now Chicago, they won the time of possession Cincinnati,
they might have had one more snap.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, nine sixty one or something something was it was.
It was the one time where they got up to
it kind of. And you had the statistic that at
the pace going into the Bears game, the defense will
have played three more games.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
In the yell.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I actually looked at it right before we hit record.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
The opponents have run one hundred and fifty nine more
plays than the Steelers one hundred fifty nine.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That's almost three games already already.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Still six to go. Five to go right, five to.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Go, you can one hundred and fifty nine more plays.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So part of me and the explanation I'll come because
there's there's different people asking different questions, and all of
them to me are legitimate. Why isn't Jalen Warren getting
more carries because we don't have the ball enough? Why
isn't dk Metcalf Getny more targets because we don't have
the ball enough? Why is right we can't target him
(15:21):
with the ball unless we actually, you know, have the
ball right now? Having said that, there's a bit of
a chicken an egg to that too.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
A thousand How do you better possess the ball as
you give it to your best guy?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And I think, my, my, I guess my question is
you know with with you know? Mike Tomin basically says,
after these games, Amen, nothing is off the table, right,
nothing's off the table. And I wonder if maybe is
simplifying on the table. It's just saying, okay, let's let's
get it to our best guys. Let's let's let's just
go ahead and do that. And maybe that means a
(15:56):
reduced role for somebody else. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
I mean, I thought they were trending that way over
the last few weeks. Anyways, just from things being said,
we get war in the ballmore, we get Friar move right.
I don't understand the Friarman stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I don't either.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
That one to me shocks me more than anything.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
You're paying that guys some money too.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Rogers always likes to say I get it to the
guy who's open, but in Green Bay it always seemed
to be DeVante Adams.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Or Jordan Nelson.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean, yeah, he's just the guy who's open all
the time.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I talk with Metcalf about that in training camp, because
every drill started with at least one, if not two,
consecutive passes from Rogers to Metcalf because they were trying
to build chemistry. And I asked Metcalf, is he's throwing
these the ball on purpose to start these drills? He said, no,
he's throwing it to the guy who's open. But I'm
always open. He's not always open now, and I think
(16:51):
Rogers I admire his I go to the open guy
kind of big picture of philosophical approach, and that's probably
got a lot to do with why he is better
at protecting it. Than anybody. But at some point you
got to go to your playmakers, right, I mean, yeah,
maybe they should identify who those guys are and throw
it to them.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
And to me, that's Metcalf than friar Mouth in terms
of who's your best pass catchers. I mean, Johnny Smith
seems unbelievably unreliable and he's doing a lot more than
friar Mouth, which I don't understand. I'm a big Washington fan,
keep him out there all the time, but that doesn't
mean he I don't know. I don't have a problem
with his usage. To be honest with you, I also
(17:32):
have watched a lot of All twenty two tape this
year where no one's open, and that might have been
the case last last night yesterday to some degree.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Too, it is something that Aaron Rodgers has said, Yeah,
guys aren't open, and it feels that way. I mean again,
I'm and I have to apologize this to and and
I think I do this on all these shows. I
have to watch the ball. That's my job. The days
where I could every can see if.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Every show, yes they get it.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Are they are they rolling for cover two to cover?
You know? You know, I can see if they're trying
to bring pressure. I can look, you know, a couple
of yards off the line of scrimmage one way or
the other. But it's my job to follow the ball.
That's what I do. But it doesn't seem like there's
a lot of guys open. And I remember, you know,
I remember having this this uh, this conversation with my
(18:18):
son Schaeffer about you know, George Pickens and you know, hey,
what a great contested catch. I said, well, that's great,
but I'd like to see some uncontested catches too, you know,
I'd like to see him running open over the middle
of the field and then what's gonna happen? And and
it just doesn't. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem, Mike,
like there's a ton of guys who are.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Open, and when they are, they don't hit them.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And go back to the second series last night, Roman
Wilson's behind the corner start and ten he's down the sideline.
It's a big chunk play, minimum might be a touchdown,
and Rogers overthrew him. He said, oh, I thought the
wind was gonna knock the ball down.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
I mean, I mean you mentioned many times there's four
or five in the Bears game.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, big plays left on the field.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I watched the we were doing the pregame show on
Sunday and I was watching Carolina play the Rams and
twice on fourth and short in plus territory, Carolina went
for it, found one on one, covers deep and scored
touchdowns on fourth and one or fourth and two, something
of along those lines.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Against the best team league.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You don't get a ton of those shots in the NFL. No,
you gotta hit them. You gotta hit them. Yeah, you
got him, You hit them, you win, you don't you lose? No,
I agree. I don't know way to scheme around that.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
And I think it gets exemplified because you don't throw
the middle field very much, you know, I mean, you're
just not People know where the ball's going. It's short
or it's deep. Still, you know you're saying that last week,
and they found the way.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
God blessed Mason Rudolph.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I think he's great backup, and I think there was
a time when I thought they'll be okay with him
as the starter. If that's the worst case scenario, I
could live with that. He's found a way to get
picked along the sideline in consecutive games.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yeah, his interception overthrown.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Those shouldn't get picked. No, that's why.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
That's because they're saying, right, why you throw.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
The sideline rout to?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, there's a lottery ticket and free beer in the
middle of the field.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
There's also turnovers.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Oh yeah, why.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
They avoid it right right?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Because they're playing that game and statistically they should be
playing that game. But when you not only miss on
the sideline but.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Get it picked, you get taken negative.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Now you've got real problems.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Which right here we always sit right right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right, yes, here we sit. And I think that you know,
all season long, Matt, I have blamed If I was
going to blame one unit or the other, or cercize
one unit more than the other, it will be the
offense for not keeping the defense off the field more
this this talk about plays and time and possession, and
(20:52):
eventually the defense is going to wear down. And I
think that has been a culprit. I think that's been
a problem that the Steelers have run into. I don't
think that was at all the problem yesterday. Certainly the
offense did nothing. They did nothing the first play, one
hundred and twenty five yards rushing in the first half.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
This was a problem coming even at half time. Yes,
you did.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
You know in the other games it would have been
it would have been Look the the those other three
games that we mentioned, four games. You know, Chicago didn't
get out of hand. Green Bay shouldn't have gotten out
of hand, Seattle shouldn't have gotten out of hand. This
you know, I'm not green Bay, did I say or
did I say green Bay?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Either?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Those games shouldn't have gotten out of hand because you
got the ball to begin the second half, right, you
had an opportunity to drive, to sustain a drive, and
and and it wasn't like you were being badly outplayed
in the first half or anything like that. They did
a great job on Jacob's against Green Bay. In this game, Taylor,
they yeah, Jonathan, they needed a drive to begin the
second half because they they weren't really getting the job
(21:58):
done defensively. They caused a couple of turnovers. But the yardage,
the running yardage was.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
I thought the game is more lopsided going into the
break than the score obviously indicated, or any stat other
than rushing yards indicated or time possession. And you kind
of knew I've seen this party before it's an older defense.
It's been out there a ton this year. Still have
Josh Allen, which is scary as could be, and Cooks.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Running all over you.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
You better come out of the locker room and have
a meaningful drive. I mean, even if it's ten plays
in a punt, a meaningful drive and hold the ball
a little bit and establish something you can build on.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Late short in the game, at the very least shortened
the game, but hopefully, hey, what happens again? What happens
if you go down and you score a touchdown and
you make it fourteen to three? What if you go
on to seven and a half minute drive? Are they
starting to think differently about how they're going to manage
the game? Is James Cook getting all those carries? And
Ty Johnson? And are they getting all those carries? Are
(22:56):
they thinking, now, you know what we got? We got
you know backup starting at tackle, but we have to
trust him. And now what happens, Well, now Alan's trying
to make a play down in the field, so he's
patting the ball longer. So what happens? Your defense comes
to the forefront. But having said all that, I get it,
and I do believe that once again, the offense didn't
help out the defense last night, But last night, Matt
(23:16):
I thought the defense didn't help out the defense.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
A thousand percent. And nobody helped out anybody last yesterday. Frankly,
I mean again, but there was something that's very true
through the end of that from start to finish that
game that really bothered me in that their tackles are
bad and played bad. I mean, they helped them like crazy,
(23:39):
but they never were asked to do a lot of
hard things because they never really threw the ball. And
their pass catchers are bad and played bad, you know,
like they didn't have anything in the passing game except
for Allen, and you still couldn't stop the run. Like
I'm not saying put fifteen guys in the box, but
I mean, like if they beat you through the air
in the second half.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Because you're so dedicated to stop in the run, so
be it. At that point.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
I mean, you're just taking body blow after body blow
and not having any defense for it. I mean, at
least they were bad at something, but you couldn't use
that to your advantage.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You know, And I imagine it would be like a
little bit like Mike facing Muhammad Ali in his prime,
which is that you know he's going to hit you
with the left jab and there's nothing you can.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Do about it.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I mean, this was frustrating because I think this, I
think this has tried to do different things, but there
was just nothing they could.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Do about it. Yeah, they tried everything they could think of.
And what does that tell you?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, I don't either.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Maybe there isn't an answer.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I know, you know, Derek Henry's probably sitting there watching
tape as we speak, rubbing his hands together, thinking, Okay,
time for me to get right because I think he said,
what four hundred yard games this year? That's it? Something
like that, right, sixty yards each his last two games,
give or take.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
But how can you do that? How can you? And
that this is the question fans are asking, how can
you give up the most yards rushing at home in
a game in fifty years? Half a century was the
last time somebody ran for that many yards against the
Steelers at home? And yet you did a great job
on Jonathan Taylor for half anyway, you did a great
(25:17):
job on Josh Jacobs. He held the Bears under one
hundred yards. That was the leading rushing team in the NFL.
You know what, they weren't the leading rushing team in
the NFL coming to this week because you held them
under one hundred yards, so that the new team was
the Bills.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
It makes no sense, and I can't believe he's a
good player, But Derek Harmon's absence is the only thing
that's really changed, right, And they did really run either
to his left or his right over and over. They
didn't run left.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Hardly at all.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
I mean, so I think his absence mattered. And I'm
not picking on these guys because they really shouldn't even
be out there and I don't even know their names,
which is terrible, but OTTOWENU and new hyphen guy shouldn't
be out there at all.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
They were really bad.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Roderick Martin Yes, and uh oh told me woe fig
Martin Road. What I said, Roderick Martin, Broderick Martin Road.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they used to be Roddick Martin.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Then he added the hyphen got Martin rose right now.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
It didn't help him stop the run any better.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
No, uh it just again, this is one of those ones.
And again, you know one other thing I'll throw in
there to Mike the inability to stem the tide. And
then and and you know the dk Metcalf unsportsman like
conduct happened in the first half, but you know that
that's not a good look either, Like you can't find
(26:41):
a way to stem the tide, and then you commit
three unsportsman like conduct penalties, you know the one at
the end of the first half on Peyton Wilson. You'd
used your time outs and you got to that point, Okay,
we got the ball to fifty six yard line, got
like fifty or twenty six yard and got like fifty
seconds left. Let's go kick a field goal, right, Let's
kick a field goal. And now you know, now we
can maybe get a little momentum going at a halftime.
(27:03):
And then and then that obviously that pinge you deep
and you don't really have the opportunity to do that.
But all of it, the inability to stem the tie tide.
That's why I like the young sportsman iconic penalties. If
you have one game like this against Green Bay, like
I said before, some of you win, some you lose,
some of you throw away. But well, you know again,
fans are going to say we've seen this before.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
They have, and.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I wish I had something concrete to pin it on,
but I don't. I think the performance against Indy was real.
I think the performance against the Bears was real. Last
night was real too. It was real bad yep. So
they have that, they're capable of that, and you know
they have everything to play for moving forward still, which
is amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I'm starting to think the Bengals going to win.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
This division or they won't. Playing well.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
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(28:15):
it direct from the team at Shop dot sales dot
com on DVE and this steel there's audio Network.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Back to the Point After on DV.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Give to Cook on the LA and Cook has hit
and dropped in the back of your cam. Hayward came
barreling through to make the stop back at the eight
yard line. A loss of three in the play. Not
enough of that that game at a time that's a
gam Hayward stop of James Cook and came at a
time where you're just looking, hey, man, if you can
hold him to a field goal, at least you can
(28:49):
think about two touchdowns to two point conversions, because that's
where you were at the game. But Matt, they just
couldn't even think about that. And by the way, you know,
you talk about bad optics or I've been talking, come
about bad optics, the inability to stem the tide offensively
or defensively, and also the the you know, unsportsman like
conduct penalties. That isn't a good look either. And also
(29:13):
not a good look was the short run to Kenneth
Gainwell on fourth and one fourth and a long one
trying to go in and get that touchdown and two
point conversion. Of course, if it works, great call, What
a great call of course the quarter. But again, all
this stuff, you know, I mean I run into this
in baseball a lot. You know, how come the team
(29:34):
just doesn't look like they got any energy. Well, that's
because joey Atani held you to two hits and six
innings and you're not gonna you're not gonna look like
you have much energy there, and so you're not gonna
look like you look dispirited, and you look like you're
not trying. And you know, you get the penalties and
the different things that happened in the game, but that again,
it was just it was a bad optics evening for
(29:55):
this yeers and that was one that made it look
bad also.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
And I'm big on the not trying thing in this sport.
I mean it, that's easy for us fat old people
sitting in our lazy boy to say why we're watching
the game, you know what I mean. But one thing,
and this is not an excuse, but it makes me bonkers,
is Thursday nights on the road are unbelievably hard on
(30:21):
these players, and playing against a team that has a
huge rest advantage is unbelievably hard on these players, and
the numbers bear it out to no end. If I
bet more might take a note rest advantage, just bet
on those teams and for what And They're gonna go
back to back weeks playing a team with a major
(30:42):
rest advantage. That should never happen, Like the team should
have called the league when the schedule came out and
been like, we gotta play this team with ten days
off compared to our seven, and then do it again
the next week. I mean, that's an unbelievably terrible situation,
and the league's really bad about that stuff. They probably
lose the game no matter what, but I mean, those
(31:03):
things matter, and don't forget that these bodies are beat
up and they've played nine thousand plays against a team
with the rest advantage, and it looks bad at the end.
Don't get me wrong, but man, I mean, that is
not an excuse. But I did want to just get
that on the air. Makes me crazy.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I was trying to find positive, you said Isaac Cimolo
after watching it again. Yeah, why are you black in
the first half, I thought, you know, and again a
larger snap count I'm assuming for him by the end
of the game. I didn't see what his snapcount was
by the end the game. I thought early on he
showed Echols came up with an interception, but.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Uh, miss defense as a whole wasn't bad. Yeah, it
wasn't called upon.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
It wasn't called.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Matt.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
This is a hard game to in which the signal
single out many positives. Mike, Mike I'm sorry, did I say, Matt,
did I was looking at you?
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
You did look past I did look I did the padma.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I don't want to talk about positives because I can't
think of any. I do want to get this on
the end though, following up with Matt making his point,
you know it's open season on Mike Tomlin right now,
and I get that, but I hear this tired cliche narrative. Oh,
the game has passed him by, and these two setting
(32:22):
his ways. And let me just tell you, if you
watched the Buffalo Bills play last night, they didn't have
their starting offensive tackles. They threw the ball sideways. When
they threw it, it came out in about half a second.
They ran the football with physicality. They stopped the run
with physicality. If you could run the football.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
They didn't reinvent the wheel, as you could do.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
A lot of things because running the football will never
go out of style. And if you are a coach
who values running the football and not turning it over,
these are in your favor. These are good characteristics to have.
Doesn't mean you're gonna win, but let's let's try to
at least keep your eye on the ball about what
(33:05):
should be.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Criticized eight no, in the last eight games that they
haven't turned it over.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
So it does.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
It does kind of mean they're going to win the game.
And clearly, you know, Andy Widel talks to the media,
and of course Andy Widel you know, worked with Omar
Khan in the front office for the Steelers and he
you know, so Omar will talk to the media and
Andy Widel has a session with the media before the
last preseason game, and last year he talked about wanting
(33:32):
to get more physical on both lines because that play work.
That kind of play works if it's if it's one
hundred degrees in Miami, it works, if it's ten degrees
in Buffalo, it works. Last night raises floor, that's right, Yeah, yeah,
it raises every floor. And now we're talking about who's
defending the ball the least well. You are because you're
(33:53):
running the ball down the other team's throat, you're running
more plays. Even if you're not running more plays, you're
controlling the clock, you're keeping them cold, you're keeping your
defense rested, your march, you're pummeling the other team. All
that's what the Steelers have stated, that's how they want
to play, and at times last week in Chicago, they've
done it. At times defensively, they've done it when they
(34:16):
stopped Jonathan Taylor, and even again last week in Chicago.
I don't know why it's been elusive defined on a
more consistent basis.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Yeah, And you know, speaking of front offices and Andy
and etc. They've put their money where their mouth is
in terms of draft picks. I mean they've drafted big people.
I mean Benton Harman, offensive line galore. I mean, I
love Kevin Colbert, but he really didn't draft offensive lineman
for ten years. I mean he also had pouncing the
(34:43):
castro that last of the time. But I mean they've
dedicated their resources to doing it. So to me, it
raises three questions. Did you draft the wrong guys?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Or are the.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Right guys being used wrong? Or is it just not
here yet because they're young? You hope for three right?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
For sure, I've seen lots of signs of it being three.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, you know, And I do think that's extremely well
laid out. And I do think that that's the question Mike,
people are going to have after a loss like this.
You know, Uh, okay, you drafted these guys are they
any good now?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Then?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
You know, of course a lot of people want to
jump on.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
The coaching right.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, you know they have. I think there has been
some underneath roster churn as they've tried to get younger
and tried to get more guys who were younger.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
You know, this regime took over a roster that in
many ways was aging and needed to be replaced with
younger and hopefully better players. And I do think that,
you know, just to take a step away from this conversation,
I do think eventually they'll come to a point in
which they might draft a defensive lineman and an offensive
lineman every single year.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
But but they're not there yet.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Look look around the roster you're trying to I mean
last year you went out in free agency and via
trade and got corners. Well, those are typically guys that
take first round picks. You know, you just saw Broderick
Jones go down if you need to, if you don't
pick up his fifth year option and don't resign him. Well,
typically a left tackle that's a first round pick. That's
a quarterback that's a first round pick. Everybody wants a
(36:22):
number two receiver. Okay, if you don't get him in
free agency or via trade. That is probably a first
round pick as well, or could be a first round pick.
So in other words, what I'm saying is there's still
work to do underneath this roster.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
The wish list seems to keep growing.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
The hope is that, Yeah, the hope is that five
years after you've taken over, you have these draft choices
are all here. The only the only draft choice that
isn't on the roster now Logan Lely isn't playing is
Ryan Watt because he got hurt. He had a neck injury.
But then the three years they've drafted, everybody, even the
late round picks are on the roster. They made the team. Well,
I think it's because you had having to.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Replace guys, and a point about are they the right
guys but they're being used wrong or are they just
not there yet? I mean, Roman Wilson's pretty deep into
the season now and he had one target for zero catches.
I believe he had zero target, zero catches in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
I mean, yeah, Rogers missed him last night.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
He's playing more and more.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, one target and he's playing more and more.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
They ain't getting done.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
There's no production. There.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, they went out and got DK Metcalf and they're
paying them a ton of money.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
He had three catches for thirty two yards and this
is not an outlier.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Seven street weeks.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I think lay was a healthy scratch last night. Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
It was said by Mike tomlin Beck in training camp,
Sleigh Porter and Jaye Ramsey would.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Never leave the field.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, never got on the field last night.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
So I mean there's a little uh I think Matts
phrase he's brought up from time to that's whack a mole.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
They seem to solve one problem and another one sticks
it set up and you go try to hammer that one,
and there's two more over here. And maybe that's why
you're six and six because you just can't get an extraction.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
Well, a couple of things I want to bring up.
It's just this is a big picture thing and we're
not there yet. But their group of free agents to
be isn't going to hurt this team that much. If
they all walk out the door, and if there's anybody
they want to keep, it won't break the bank. And
they do have a ton of picks going forward, and
they do still have a lot of cap space, so
(38:30):
I'm a thousand percent with you. There's no way in
an offseason you're going to get a number one corner,
a number two receiver, a starting left tackle, and a
quarterback in the draft.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I mean doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Nope, you could have four picks in the first round.
You're not gonna get that. But there are there is
some big picture thinking here that I think people should
be at least be aware of in terms of what's
walking out the door. And Roder Jones is going to
be on this team next year, even if you don't
pick up a fifty year option, right, so you might
(38:59):
have a year to figure it out, right, But it's
far from my ideal. Don't get me wrong. Yesterday was
a perfect example, but it crosses my mind almost every
Seiler game. And this is not a knock on Rogers
because he's forty one years old, But.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
You know what else raises the floor a lot having a.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Quarterback that can run, yep, I mean this team not
having that being able to get out of trouble or
I mean, Herbie got clean shots on Allen and couldn't
get him down. And I know he's the best that's
out there, but boy, when things aren't well, and your
quarterback can just get eight yards and go out of bounds.
I mean, let alone make big plays or be ben
in the pocket boy, it's helpful, and they don't have
(39:36):
that at all.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Joe Burrow is a guy that can shift and move around,
and he can run on occasion. But when you look
at most of the young quarterback CJ. Shroud's more of
a pocket guy, clearly, But Jayden Daniels is mobile, Drake
May is mobile, Bo Nick's is mobile. I mean a
lot of these young quarterbacks, Caleb Williams who we just saw,
these guys all have the mobility factor and I think
(39:58):
it's something that Mike tom Win once.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
But hey man, that's whether they're interested in fetal Right.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
You know, there's lots of things we want, but if
you don't have it on your roster, you coach. You
coach with what you have.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And they one a guy that can complete a pass first,
you know, being defense and complete, well were they value
that more than the running ability? But you know, back
to the whack a mole analogy. I mean, I watched
the end of Denver and Washington last night, and well
Nicks through a touchdown pass falling forward. He was almost
(40:32):
homes like, you know, and he didn't have a great game,
but I think it was a terrible game. They won,
but it was just one of those plays that made
you go, holy cow, there's not a lot of guys
that can do that.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
No, it's but but that, but that is the way.
And so we had to call Max and I earlier
today in the locker room and to call somebody saying, hey,
you know, get get a guy like Joe Milton. Well
you have to throw it first, right, and Joe's an
athletic guy, and he's got a cannon for an arm.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Gotta be able to fall out of a boat and
hit water.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Right, that's right, you have too far off the first
and then ask any GM the capacity to run is
maybe closer than it's ever been for that ability to throw,
but it is still number two.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
But this goes back to Daddy Shanahan when he drafted
RG three. And like Kaepernick, there's a lot to figure
out for all these quarterbacks. But if you're an elite athlete,
you can survive as you learn, you know what I
mean those first two three years, I can throw you
out there even though you don't know how to readcover
just perfectly, or your ball placements not where it needs
(41:30):
to be because you're a really good athlete.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
So one thing did happen last night that I thought
was interesting, which is Sante Samue for the first time
in a year and a half got into some game action.
He was a guy that a lot of people thought,
prior to his neck surgery, was one of the top
free agents available and a solid and legitimate starting cornerback.
I'm not again trying to throw anybody out the door,
but again, we did talk about that laundry list of
(41:55):
needs and that you usually typically have to spend first
round picks on. Hey, Dre Jones going to be here
and starting, I would imagine it left tackle for you,
and and if even if they don't pick up his
fifth year option, he's going to be starting. And Sante Samuel.
That's why I was thinking, man Corey Trice, you know,
I know they're intrigued by him, but Samuel, that could
that could wind up being a nice pick up again,
(42:16):
not not only for for for you know, down the line,
but let's circle back to this year, right, I mean
he could I'll be interested to see what.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Right that's right, right, right, right, And you've gone for
nothing and and and so kind.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
We are we are looking right, we are looking for
some sort of positives from last night. Maybe, Mike, maybe
that will be a positive as they get ready to
take on a Ravens team. Like like you said, they
have got to be have fond memories of the last
two times these two teams played and their ability to
run the ball in the Steelers after what they saw
(42:52):
last night against the Bills.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, and they've got their issues too.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
I mean, they just lost on Thanksgiving night at home
to the Bengals and their stadium was empty by the
end of that game, and they look terrible. But yeah,
they're probably uh anticipating these Steelers visit. I would add
one more positive since you're looking so hard and determinedly, Yes, determinedly.
Frisbee dogs at halftime. Man, Oh, they're good, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You know what again, as I've said before with my
own dog, four paws down and a canine move before
you can call that a completed Frisbee Okay, No, four
paws down, knine move.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
What's a canine move?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
What's a football move?
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Man?
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Move?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Come on, seriously, man, so so Matt, you know, look again,
I'm trying to I'm trying to circle out of here,
because look, the game was the game, man, and we're
not doing it justice if we don't talk about the
things that struggled, because it was a struggling game. But
nothing has changed as far as your potential outlook for
winning the division, and so is as bad as last
night's performance was, you still have an opportunity to go
(43:56):
to Baltimore, win that game, be in first place, and
once again be the team that everybody else is trying
to chase down.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
Yeah, that that's still true.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
I mean, the math of it all still exists, and
it actually works in your favor in my opinion, that
you play Baltimore twice. If you can win both those games,
they have a very good chance to win the division
and host a playoff game.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yep, if you will from there, If you win both
of those games, you gotta win one more.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
You gotta win one more, basically, yeah, yeah, not basically, Okay,
that's the math of two.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, because that would get you to nine, and if
you beat them twice, the best they can do is
get to nine and you will put all loss two
to you.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
How about the Bengals, They can get to nine. Can't
they run the table? Yeah, they run the table.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, it's interesting though their schedules not horrific. Cincinnati's they
still have the Ravens at home if they can hope
the Ravens and steal a split, which is a fairly
reasonable anticipation. Yeah, Borrow's won like how many in a
row a lot?
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Yeah, he's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Like he is you think it?
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Higgins back, Huh, Yeah, it's possible.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
At clearroow Federal Credit Union, they're always upping their game
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Matt Williams and four mic persuita for our producer Justin Miller.
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(45:25):
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