October 27, 2025 • 48 mins
As the team and Steelers Nation try to move past the lackluster performance and difficult loss to the Packers, Rob, Matt, and Mike discuss the game and the current state of the team moving forward.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Thanks for being with us for the point After, presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store and the Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at shop dot Steelers
dot com, here on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network.
Alongside Mike Persuda and Matt Williamson, I'm rob King following
the Steelers thirty five to twenty five loss to the
Green Bay Packers, a game that in an earlier show
(00:30):
I described as being something like an avalanche. Like Matt,
once it started, there was nothing the Steelers seemed to
be able to do to stem the tide. That the
Packers usually just roll over them in this game. And
let's face it, you know, thirty five twenty five, But
the Packers won this one going away, no question.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And they were very, very impressive. And I always want
to give the opponent some credit the day after, and
they deserve a lot in their contender. But even a
week ago, the avalanche didn't hit as hard from the Bengals.
But I remember Mike saying pretty much after the first
quarter against the Bengals, it felt like the Steelers couldn't
quite knock them out in the first round, and then
(01:15):
they lost the twelve round fight you know, against Cincinnati,
and we were making things, you know, talk to that
last week about hey, do we want to start on
the offense or the defense? You know, last half empty,
glass half full? And all last week I analyzed that
Bengals game, going, Yeah, the glass was about forty nine
percent full in there. It wasn't quite fifty, but it
was forty nine percent. And this game it felt like
(01:36):
the glass is like thirty percent full and it's all offense.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Still.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, I do think, Matt, and I'm going to give
you a brief opportunity to well, let me come back
to that because I want to get Mike's satts at first,
and Mike give us your general thoughts of the game.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'll give you some thoughts as to my reaction first,
because I'm sitting here and I did the morning show
and did the post game last night, and I have
these two thoughts bouncing around in my head. One is
you hear Cam Hayward talking about the level of fight
not being sufficient, and you hear Patrick Queen talking about
(02:15):
being timid and getting frustrated, and I'm thinking, who are
these Like, Yeah, yeah, the last thing I ever thought
I would be discussing regarding the Steelers.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Was that stuff, right, But here we are.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And now I'm thinking, all right, how do you get
out of this? There's still four and three, there's stile
in first place in the division. How do they win
games moving forward? And I'm thinking they got to try
to be like the Bengals and outscore their own defense.
And this is not an advantageous position to be in.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's also very unusual one for this game.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, so, Matt, I want to come back to you
in a minute, because I just wanted to Mike. There's
just so much to follow up on in this game,
you know, going through the game with Max earlier on
the Locker Room Show, and so you know, we're less
(03:11):
than twelve hours removed from the end of the game, right,
the game had ended like ten hours before we started
that show. And the overwhelming feeling I had walking back
to my car last night was oo. Man, that was
a pummeling, Right. That was because you're left with the
last thought of the game. And I'll reverse this back
to you, Matt in just a moment. But when you
(03:33):
think about we went through drive by driving the game
and some of the things that happened, when you think about, Okay,
so let's talk about the stemming of the tide. Like
what Cam Hayward was talking about, there were ample opportunities
on offense and on defense for this for the Steelers
to do that. It wasn't just the defense. It was
(03:56):
mostly the defense. They gave up thirty five points, Mike.
But you know, when you have opportunities to come up
with a drive and you have penalties and you have
a sack and you have different things. Regardless of why
it happened, the fact that you couldn't either go on
a long drive or couldn't make a stop when you
(04:18):
needed to make a stop, I think for a lot
of Steelers fans it probably felt like those last five
games of last season in which you found yourself with
a ten and three record, You had opportunities against top
teams to stem the tide, and whether you couldn't do it,
and it's what Cam Hayward was talking about, whether you
simply aren't good enough, which is certainly going to be
(04:40):
a lot of people's perceptions. You had opportunities to stem
the tide and you couldn't do it, and that's troublesome.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, and let's take it back to the playoff game.
Last year, kirk Herbstreet telling America, where's the fight? We're
asking America. These are the Pittsburgh Steelers. Where's the fight?
From the Baltimore game? Right, not all that dissimilar to
what Cam Heyward and Patrick Queen we're talking about last night.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I told my secretary to hold.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Back, so while you while you go ahead and take
that call and uh and hopefully rejoin us in the show.
You know when you said thirty, Matt, and I was
surprised because I had that who feeling walking back to
my car, like like they got blown out here.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Also, it was kind of chilly, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Uh it wasn't too bad though, Uh it was at
cool so uh it was hours later when you were
going out to your car after the Charlie, I was
only midnight. You were two am.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah, you know, great time to be on the North
Shore by the way.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Oh yeah, fabulous time.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Nothing like walking to the to the back of the
Science Center hoping it's a safe walk back to get
your car when it's the only one left in the
parking lot. I did that show for a couple of
years too, Mike, so you know you were leading sixteen
to seven at the half. Yeah, okay, So for thirty minutes,
(06:10):
not only were you leading, but there were such good signs. Okay, yes,
you were helped out by two missfield goals, right, but
there was also a ball on the ground that you
didn't get to, a couple of fumbles that you could
have pounced on that could have kept the momentum going
your way. The Packers had the best third down offense
in the NFL. You held them to over four They
had the number two rush defense in the NFL, and
(06:33):
you ran for eighty one yards and you were averaging
well over five yards to carry. There was a lot
to like about the first thirty minutes of football. In fact,
at that point I thought the Steelers were gonna win
the game.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I did two I did too. And the biggest reason
there's things we touched on is because Jacobs was the
scariest thing going into me. You know, like to win
this game. Jacobs can't dominate. They kept them pretty much
under the whole day, let alone the first half, and
the Packers running game wasn't that great. And you mentioned it.
The Steelers ran the ball quite well in the first half.
(07:10):
Now I know there's more reasons for it. But Warren
only got three second half carries. Yeah, and you got
the opening kickoff and you had a lead. I mean,
I know they only held the ball for like ten
minutes in the second half, but still I'm not sure.
It might have been a little early to get away
from maybe your best offensive player. But there's also some
fundamental issues. I mean, the defense down in and down
(07:30):
out all year has been way below the line, you know,
and they've lived off splash plays, and for two weeks
in a row now they haven't got splashed.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay, So I do want to get to the larger issues, yea, yeah, yeah,
But I just wanted to touch on this myself. I
just wanted to touch on this, this feeling because the
general feeling I had was, Wow, you kind of got
out classed on Sunday night football and this.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Hit like five minutes go against the good teams. It
feels like the end of last year in the playoff game. Well,
this was a good team, right, you know, the Bengals
were good on one side of the ball.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Having said that, though, when you go through those games
the Eagles, they never led the Chiefs. Uh, they had
an opportunity to have a lead late in the first half.
There's that holding penalty that I still think was a
dubious call that took back a Warren touchdown. But you
know you weren't really you weren't in control of that game.
(08:29):
You weren't in control of the of the Ravens game,
that the Bengals game. The end the season was back
and forth, and then in the Ravens playoff game you
pretty much got blown out.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Rob
but if we're clutching to things like you had a
chance to be leading in the first quarter, oh no.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is no,
I no, I'm I'm trying to be I'm trying to
be dismissive of that man. That's what I'm trying to
do here. Maybe I'm not saying it the right way,
but in those five games, you didn't have anything that
felt like the first thirty minutes of last night, which
(09:08):
you're leading the game and the time of possession was
seventeen forty eight to twelve twelve, and you kicked off
a lot of times. Time of possession is dictated a
little bit by who gets the ball first, and you
would have thought, now this Toeer, So I'm thinking, look, man,
it's sixteen to seven. You got a couple breaks, they
got a couple of breaks. Let's call it a wash.
If you go down on your opening drive and punch
(09:33):
it in, which you just did right at the end,
you punch it in, it's a completely different game. At
no point, and this is the point I'm trying to make,
At no point really in those games last year did
I have that feeling, Oh, I thought you were in it.
You had a chance to get back in it, and
in Philadelphia had a chance to get back in it.
(09:54):
In Baltimore, you had control of this game. It was
hard for me to remember that until I went back
over the game with Max, because of the fact that
they got decimated in the fourth quarter. They were leading
going into the fourth quarter. I'd forgotten that.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, you know, there's a lot to be critical of
regarding how the game played out, But am my nuts
or did this game changed completely on one play third
and five from the greenvicker Cream.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Jordan loves a great quarterback.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
All he did was throw it up for grabs under
incredible duress, and he threw a punt that their guy
caught and the Steelers guy in this case to Sean Elliott,
did not.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
And then they'll tackle him. And then Elliott gets.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Injured and it's a devastating injury to a heart and soul,
critical component guy.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
And after that it was just the game had changed.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, in writing that neighborhood, there's a couple of calls
that went against you.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, in a couple, So listen. Let's listen to the play.
Here's what happened to what Mike was talking about. Love
in the shotgun gets the snap, Steelers bringing pressure, Love
under duress, clings it up. Feel that it's.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Caught by Craft a lofting ball and he brings it
in hustling down the right sideline, dragging defenders, gets inside
the thirty all the way down to the twenty six
yard line. It was a lame duck heaved up in
the air by Love, and it's Craft who makes the
adjustment to come back and make the catch and get
it all the way down to the twenty six yard
(11:32):
line where de Sean Elliott now is writhing in pain.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, you lost Elliott too, which is one guy you
probably can't afford to losing that defense, I mean, which.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Is an emotional blow.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it's a lot of things. Yeah, but to your point,
So to recap the drive before that, the Steelers get
the ball to begin, right, and you're thinking, okay, march down,
get some points on the board. You know, let's get
closer to the end of the game. Even if you
kick a field goal, it's still another score. And now
the Packers have got to maybe do some some different
(12:05):
things offensively. You get a non call, which is a
double edged sword. First of all, the balls throwing to
Roman Wilson. Roman will probably tell you I'd like to
come down with that ball. Nice play by Keishawn Nixon,
who's been to two Pro Bowls. I get that knocks
it away, but uh it's still a you know, no
(12:26):
call by the referee. And then I was offside? Was
it was clearly offside? I'm still mystified by that.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And I'm not sure Rogers attempts to pass, doesn't think it's.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Exactly so he's sick and he's got a free play,
and so all these things contrived to work against you.
But getting back to your point, Mike, and then you
did march down, and have a decent drive and kick
a field goal and extend your lead again. But again,
you know these are in the world of professional sports.
(12:58):
These feel more like excuse is then reasons. Yeah, to
the point where we're talking about what Cam Hayward was
talking about after the game of the fight in this team.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
The fight and all that stuff is always hard for
me to comment on. Sure, I mean I agree, and
I definitely want to watch you all twenty two. I
thought there was some defensive business decisions here and there,
but they were the worst team schematically, talent wise, all
the above, some big picture things. I like the offense.
(13:30):
I think the offense is solid, but the offense can't
afford a holding penalty or a hackle for loss or
have to come from behind and I even said that
in the offseason.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Or a personal foul after a play is over and
instead of third and two, it's started seventeen exact.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And there was a couple of that kind of stuff
that they have no have that they can't right, zero
just can't.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Well you can't have There's a couple of things. I mean,
all of these things, and again I think, Mike, I
want to get back to those Cam Hayward comments, because
it looked that way. It's hard. We're not in the huddle.
We don't know what's going on. We don't know the intensity.
We do know that a fifteen yard penalty by DK Metcalf.
(14:09):
Instead of having a third and two on a drive
where you still have a chance to win the game,
you're third and seventeen because it occurs after the whistle,
and you can't overcome that Micah Parsons with a you
talk about a big player making a big play, Michael
Parsons sack. You start out second and twenty. You're not
equipped to overcome that. There goes another three and out
(14:31):
for this team. The penalty on Herbig again, you're teetering
on being in the game, and look, Herbig's second guy in.
He gets whistled for something. I understand why you did it.
You still can't do it. And now instead of them
having the ball at the forty their own forty, which
is troublesome enough, they've got the ball at your forty
five yard line. All of these things happen, and I
(14:53):
know the Packers are really good. All of these things happen,
but it looks like if you're a fan where's the pushback,
where's the big play, where's our sack of Jordan Love,
where's our big play to turn the momentum in our favor?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Force fumble the game?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well play two two weeks in a row, Mike, where
that hasn't happened?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
And you know, I appreciate where Matt's coming from. It's
hard for us to know who's fighting and who is right.
Sometimes guys say that it's a conditioned response, but I
don't know. It sounded just listening I'm doing the post
game show. I'm not in the locker room, but listening
to the tape recordings of Cam Hayward and Patrick Queen,
it sounded like they were being sincere and forthcoming.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And then you look at.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
The various stats that we have access to, and you
see the drive the ball possession and drive chart, and
you see Green Bay in the second half touchdown, touchdown, touchdown,
field goal, field goal, They're not that good.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Felt a lot like Cincinnati.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
No Mighty got to make a play in there some.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Way, scored on every second half meaningful drive.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Right, Yeah, And didn't that begin to feel a lot
like Cincinnati The week before where Cincinnati started to get
rolling in there was just nothing that could stem the tide.
And that's and I.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Do think mental toughness of does apply here. I mean, okay,
maybe people turned down attack or whatever, but to Mike's point,
on that craft play and then an injury and then
there should have been a penalty, but we didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
And yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
No one's kind you in this Nobody cares. Nobody cares.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Troublesome issues for sure, among among many troublesome issues for
a team that's now lost to in a row. We'll
be back on more on the Point. On the Point After,
presented by your neighborhood Forge Store and the students pro
shapp Get It directed, Steelers dot Com and Places and
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Back to the point After on dv E.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Rogers turns, throws, slam right, touchdown Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's dk met cap from three yards out.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Remember when the Steelers were flying high. That was at halftime, right,
they were flying high at half time. We talked about
the numbers. Okay, so we're gonna, Michael, We're gonna revisit it.
Eighty one yards rushing, more yards rushing in the first half,
five point four yards to carry more yards rushing in
the first half than the Packers average, giving up per
(17:25):
game one hundred and seventy six yards to one sixty five,
seventeen forty eight, time of possession to twelve twelve over
five minutes better, and of course sixteen to seven. Now,
let us look at the final statistics from this game,
the yards which were in favor of the Steelers by
thirteen going into half four fifty four to two ninety
(17:50):
five four fifty four. They had almost three hundred yards
just shy of three hundred yards in the second half
of Allen. That's that's rare. That's rare.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
And again I think Jordan Love is great, uh, and
they obviously know how to coach offense up there in Wisconsin,
and they've got some guys. But one hundred of those yards,
give or take, were two chuck it in Hope places
that just can't happen. The one that we talked about,
the Craft and the one the Watson. I can't believe
(18:26):
they got away with both of those.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
They weren't skilled quarterback playing no like let's just hope.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Throw it up in Hope.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, And if you take those away, it's a differentty
good it's a different game.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So, by the way, ten minute time of possession advantage
in the second half of the Packers in the second half,
second half, not for the second half. Yeah, not five
minutes per half, second half.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It is already crazy. This time possession stuff is going
to really start to bite them. I mean, they just
start losing defensive players. They're gonna yeah, I mean, if it.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Hasn't already, And you had eighty one yards you're rushing
in the first half, and you had twelve in the
second half, and largely because you just didn't run the ball.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I mean, warn to three carries the second half, then
you got the ball.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So those are not good final numbers. It isn't. And
in the fourth quarter the defense for the Steelers gave
up twenty eight points. It was just our twenty eight
second half points. Matt, they just rolled. And this is now,
you know, you can point to a game here, point
(19:29):
to a game there. Mike just pointed to a couple
of plays. I think we could point to a couple
of plays. I think we could point to the Jets
game right field goal, the Seattle game in the lost column,
probably two plays there. You don't recover a kickoff, you
gift them seven points and then the you know the
ding dong ding ricochet rabbit interception in the end zone
(19:50):
that takes points off the board for you. Ricket Rabbit,
there is some kind of.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Noise got him on that one.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Bigger better than Rabbit Moranville. He you always bring up
every time.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Better, So you know you had really big ears.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You can you needed to come up with a stop
against Cincinnati. You know, we could always point to a
couple of plays here and there, but again, that's not
the mentality you want anymore than you know, well, you
know the calls went against this this game. You can't
have that kind of mentality. And you know when you
look at the bigger picture, and we could talk about
the offense in a little bit, but you can't have
(20:37):
seven games played and four of those games you gave
up more than thirty points. You you're just that that's
that's not a winning formula.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
No, I mean you have to have Burrow, Higgins and
Chase last year like the Bengals. That's Bengals defense from
last year. And that gets you to five hundred, right.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
In which they lost a record amount of games in
which I think they'd scored thirty three or more points.
No team had ever lost the best game look at him.
Yesterday they lost to the Jets thirty nine to thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yeah, but they've also, you know, made some salad out
of less than salad like ingredients in Cincinnati played it
that way.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I mean, if that's what you got, that's what you got,
right right.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
And I still think this offense for the Steelers in
both these last two games, more scoring early would have
changed the way the game played out late. As good
as we all felt at halftime, they all had the
one touchdown. That ball to DK metcalf. I don't know
how you guys saw it. It looked like to me
it hit him in the hands. And let me ask
you this, Matt.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He's always like a play away.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Do you know who that cornerback was? His name is
Carrington Valentine.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
You remember this guy.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I don't know a ton about him, but right seventh
round are out of Kentucky a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
I mean, that's that's Rogers finding a one on one
that the Steelers gotta love that matchup.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Oh, I'm sure on Wednesday were like, if I get
DK on Valentine, I'm going.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
There, and I think the ball was where he wanted
it to be, play didn't get finished.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I mean, I'm not picking on Metcalf. He's not the problem.
But it's to be the same conversation last week about
but don't they like, especially let Turner rip the ball
away from him.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
If the defense is going to be a soft then
that this is the way you compensate.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
If not, you lose.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And to be frank, if this defense is gonna be
this soft, you're gonna have to go for it more
than fourth downs. You're not going to settle for field
goals anymore. Sixteen points in the first half's great. I mean,
you're on pace for thirty two. You're doing well. But
to your point, one or two of those were touchdowns.
Now you might seal the deal, you know. I mean,
field goals are going to keep good teams in it. Yeah,
(22:38):
I mean, but the defense, to me is obviously the
elephant in the room. We've talked about it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
But where do you see the improve, Like, is it
more likely they start playing good defense or Metcalf starts
playing making more plays.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
That's a thing. I mean, Like, I don't envy Tomlin either, yea,
because maybe it is a smart move to punt here
or take the field goal or take the lay of
whatever and keep the lead and stick around. But he's
probably in the back of my head like, man, this
defense stinks, but I don't think it's always going to stink.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Well, you know there was a time.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Is believing in something when you can't see it.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Faith. It's coincidental that they played Green Bay last night.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
And notice I said coincidental and not ironic, because I
know the correct usage.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well done.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
There was a game against the Packers when Aaron Rodgers
was quarterbacking against Ben Roethlisberger and Mike Tomlin took the
lead and then on side kicked. They can't do this
anymore because you got to declare the onside kick, but.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
He on side kicked.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Under the theory, well if we don't get it, they'll
score quicker and we'll have time to score at the end.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And that is exactly how the game played out.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Like he needs to get back to that line of thinking, like, hey,
I thought these guys were going to be historic this
just then they're not.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
You got head coach accordingly or the historic the wrong way,
And all I can say Mike is, oh the irony, because, oh,
the coincidence doesn't sound very Oh the coincidence.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It's it's just like destiny and faith makes they control
their own destiny.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
No, they don't. Destiny is predetermined.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
They control their fate, which is any one of a
number of potential outcomes.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Nobody controls destiny.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yes, it isn't fate the same thing.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Fate can go a number of ways, can it.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Then it's not your fate.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It's an eventuality. Okay, that's destiny's predetermined. Man.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Well, yeah, I agree with that, but I had I
had fate in the same in the same category.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
They were hoping for a better faith because fate is
up in the air.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Well it's still there though, and you just don't know
what it's. The outcome is going to be your fate.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
In case people haven't already turned the channel.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
And I hate this argument I'm making that. You know,
they got to steer into this Bengals thing. But I
just I don't see a fix for this defense. So
I've lost I've lost faith ginger right.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Which is again by definition, believing in something you can't see, right,
that's faith, and that's insanity.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Which is believing something is going to change when it
keeps happening over and over and over.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And there's one slender definition of as long as we're
getting to face its destiny and fate, it's only one.
That's also there's other ways to define insanity.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That that's also called practice.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Right, you're not a good free throw shooter, you practice
it and hope it gets better.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So so clearly destiny and fate is something that's gotten
under your skin. That is being the definition of insanity's
gotten under my skin, because there's far more definitions than
that regardless. Uh So, I think Mike brings up the
point about Cincinnati, and I think it is it is
worth asking the question of where are you right now?
(25:51):
So Mike Tomlin, and again I look around the NFL,
and I see teams that don't have a quarterback and
don't games. I see the guy in Cleveland who's won
two Coach of the Year awards in his five seasons
as an NFL coach. I think it's a sixth season
now and as an average way as a record way
(26:11):
below five hundred because he's not winning without a quarterback.
That's not the only reason, but he's not winning and
they've had the defense right, and look around the league,
lots of teams winning, not winning without a quarterback. Mike
Tomlin has won without a quarterback. He's got a quarterback now,
and Aaron Rodgers. I think we all believe that, But
I don't know if you know in these in these
(26:32):
winning these games, he said, look, here's my faith. My
faith is in the defense, special teams. We're gonna kick,
We're gonna pin him deep, We're gonna stop him. That's
why we're gonna win the game. I don't know whether
he needs to rethink that strategy based on what's happening
with his defense, but I do think it's a fair
question to ask, where are the dealers right now? Where
(26:53):
are they? It's always been you can rely on the defense.
Is there an area you can rely on right now
with this team?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think you can rely on the offense. I think
you can rely on Rogers and frankly, I commended them
for being built the way they are on offense, so
tight end centric, and they're difficult to play against. You know,
it's kind of like Patrick Card with the Ravens. I mean,
if you do weird stuff, you're hard to prepare for. However,
(27:21):
I also said, when it's third and twelve, or if
you're down twelve with five minutes to play, you can't
just throw three tight ends out there and get there,
you know what I mean. Now, Roman Wilson's doing some
better stuff, Calvin Austin's healthy, Metcalp's a good player. Maybe
he's not a true one jam Ar Chase, of course,
but you could lean into it and say, well, let's
(27:44):
add more firepower and throw the ball like crazy. But
I also think you have to balance it out with
running the ball and winning the time possession stuff. I mean,
the first half they won the time possession, the score
was going their way. The second half of total opposite.
But time of possessions is symptom. I mean, you go
to the doctor saying, my time of possession hurts. He's like, well,
because you can't stop the run it off the field,
(28:07):
you know what I mean. And that's the root of it, though,
Like the biggest thing you can't count on because we've
now seen what seven games or whatever down to down,
consistency on defense isn't there at all.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So I do wonder if the Steelers.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Well, there is downtown consistency. He's just consistently bad.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yes, Yeah, And you know Ciamalo came out peck injury
in the first half, comes out in the second half,
plays one series, then he's done. That takes the jumbo
package away from your offense. And that's not insignificant, but
not at all. But again, Mike, you've got to find
a way to overcome that in a game. Other teams
(28:48):
have injuries as well. The Packers lost a couple offensive
linement during different times, and I know it doesn't maybe
affect what they want to do schematically the same way
as far as personnel leading to what you do. But
you've got to find ways to overcome These can't be
excuses or reasons for defeat. You've got to find a
way to get around that. But it was a significant
(29:09):
injury and it does take away a significant part of
their offense. Still, you gotta find a way. You gotta
find a way around it.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, I just I'm not sure what that is.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
They did get away from the run, but it was
kind of circumstantial. I thought, you know, they started out
the play they ran first down in the third quarter
looked like a throwaway, like they were trying to strike
and you know, trying to keep the pedal down, try
to keep scoring, and then you had the encroachment that
(29:42):
wasn't the next series, as you mentioned, they did go
down and get a field goal. How'd they get there, Well,
they had a slant to metcalf that went for twenty four,
they had to check down the warrant that went for eleven.
That stuff was kind of working too.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Right, and then a sack by Parsons that was it.
That was Look, if you're looking at individual play in
that sort of you know, wounded duck. The craft was
a big one. Parsons man, that's a big time player
who was pretty quiet all game. The biggest thing he
did was flush Rogers and get Gary a sack in
the first half. That's the only time we mentioned his
(30:15):
name from the pregame show until that sack. The only
time we mentioned his name was he flushed Rogers to
get Gary the sack in the first half. But man,
that's what big time players do, and the Studers have
a lot of big time players in their defense and
they're looking for those kind of big time plays as well.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
And that was right at the start of the fourth quarter,
and it looked to me like they were trying to
go deep shot to Metcalf.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
They had three tight ends in the game. I didn't
write down.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
What the protection was how many guys they kept in,
but I think Parsons went through at least two players,
if not three.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
It was just an all world play by him.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
It came when he had not been trailing since the
early touchdown by the Packers.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
TJ. Watt eligible to make one of those.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
By the way, yep, I think they doubled Metcalf on
that instance. I don't know if that's surprise Rogers or
he just decided not to put it up there and
risk it. But now all of a sudden, it's second
and twenty one and that possession is scuttled and by
the time you get the.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Ball back, you're down ten. Yep, there goes you run.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
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Visit CLEARVIEWFCU dot org slash touchdown to learn more. The
point After is presented by your neighborhood Fords tour and
by the Steelers Pro Shop get it direct from the
team at shop dot Steelers dot Com, on DVE and
(31:35):
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Back to the point after on DVE.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Pumping trying to direct traffic and throws towards the back
of the end zone, caught by Roman Wilson.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
No he didn't come down with it. And they're gonna
say incomplete.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, okay, yeah, thank you. We don't know what a
catch still is. I mean, my goodness, yeah, that was
a weird play because and let me let me go
on my soapbox right now and say I cannot stand
the completion rule. I always joke with people like I
(32:12):
got a dog, right, my dog Stella. I throw her
a ball, the tennis ball. I don't applaud her until
she comes down with all four paws and makes a
canine move. I mean, it's ridiculous, man, Seriously, two feet down, simple,
two feet down. That's all you need to street Cord. No,
two feet down as a touchdown. Two feet down is
(32:33):
a catch. Just go back to that rotation. He has
two feet down, then a third foot down, then they
knock it out. We're like, what how is that not
a touchdown?
Speaker 3 (32:43):
We're wondering.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But then we're like, is there is there some weird rule?
We didn't know he had three feet down, but he
didn't turn his head to the right, and you know,
and uh, salute the American flat What what what are
we doing here?
Speaker 4 (32:54):
We're asking questions? Let me ask this about it. Whether
a ball is passed or fumbled? When Rogers being engulfed
by the Green Bay defense and he just kind of
pulls his hand out and drops it, that's a pass.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
That's a pass. Really, that's a complete.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah forward, that was And by the way.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Had he played by him because he knows the rules, right,
that's that can't be.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
There was a I thought there was one of the
earlier games.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I was at Caleb Williams who threw one out of
bounds and they called them for intentional grounding. It might
have been Caleb Williams. I can't remember who it was.
I was a young quarterback. I thought, what are we
doing here?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Man?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I mean there was a guy within ten yards of it, right,
so now you have to make a judgment call. Well,
he was trying to throw it away, Yeah, but the
guy was ten yards away. But that last night, that's
an incompletion. Yeah, I mean that's not that's not even
it was an incompletion. That's not intentional grounding.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Well no, because he got hit. If you get hit,
it's not ground.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
But it's just like the League of Plausible Deniabilities, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Uh, I don't want to get into the Giants Eagles
thing with the.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I don't. I don't care for it. I just
just make it simple. Take it out of the take
it out of the hands. You have two feet down,
you have control of the ball. That's it. Now you
have to see what's a football move and you have
to do all this interpretation and just just.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Will say though, if you're watching the broadcast, the ref expert,
they immediately went to him on the Wilson plays like,
oh that's a catch.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
He was pretty cool about.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
About that. There's only one ref expert, the one that's charge.
His name is until I hear from me Gene tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well we thought we thought it was a touchdown, but
we didn't. You know. Uh, look, you're you're you're trying
to call the game and figure out what's going on.
I'm not watching or listening to the broadcast, but I'm
glad they got it right. And I guess my question
before we move too much further on Roman Wilson's career
game for him first career touchdown. Yeah, you know, I
at the sense and got the sense all through mini
(35:02):
camp that the students were high on them. They just
didn't really need them. They got you know, they had
a formation this year where they had to I guess
you'd call it an four right. He was to twelve
he means one running back to they had no running
backs and four tight ends end. Is that an four
person I've never seen that before. I've never I've never
seen that. I guess it exists. You would know that
(35:23):
better than anybody. But you know, maybe they've got something
here in Roman Wilson. We're looking for for more offense
and you know, maybe he can be a guy.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, two weeks in a row, he's trending the right direction,
he's making plays, he's getting more playing time. That's a
big thing. I look at his snap counts and you know,
when are you out there in passing situations? Way more
than the first six games these last two weeks. So yeah,
I think trust is the right word.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I don't think there's anything sinister. They used two tight
ends a lot, they used three tight.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Ends a lot.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I don't think Roman Wilson as we sit here today
is better than DK Metcalf, Calvin Austin, and I plugged
them using Austin and Metcalf as much as humingly possible
in two wide receiver sets because one of those guys
has a shot at getting single coverage, and if one
of them does, Rogers.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Is pretty good likelihood he's gonna take a shot at
it last night.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
To Matt's point, they're not built to be behind by
two scores in the fourth quarter, but they were. So
they want a lot of three wide receiver sets and
he got some moments.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So let's talk about that. And the reason I'm bringing
it up is because the trade deadline is coming up.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Is it a week Tuesday after next week? It's like
November four fourth, Yes, it's a week from tomorrow. It's
a week from Tuesday, right, yeah, right, yeah, So you
got one more game coming up against the Colts. We'll
talk about that game coming up in a little bit.
But Mike, you talked about you know, the Bengals are
leaning into who they are, right you go out and
get Flacco and let's score a bunch of points, and
(36:52):
if we score thirty.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Eight, we may win, and we may not win. You know,
we scored thirty three, we may win and we may
not win. As it turned out, of course, they did.
They beat the Steelers. But you know, a lot of
talk about should the Steelers be in a market for
you know, another wide receiver. I don't know, if anything,
I don't know where you've stood in that camp. I
don't know in that camp, not in that camp. What
(37:15):
you think, uh, whether they should do anything at the
trade deadline? Again, we could talk about this a little
bit next week, but is there anything offensively that you
think the Steelers need to do? Or just keep saying, Hey,
it's trending in the right direction, let's keep going.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
You know, it's like any trade in any sport. What
are you getting and what are you giving? Right?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
For sure? I mean, what are you going to get?
I don't know what's out there?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Base.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
I would make a deal that I hate to sound
cliched on this. I would make a deal that I
thought could help my team. But the other question they
got to be wrestling with now is can this team
be helped? Because I think the plan all along has
been to maintain as much draft cap, but as possible
to give yourself every opportunity to move up in the
draft in the first round if you're quarterback hunting next spring,
(38:08):
which probably going to be right even if Rogers would
come back, I think perfect opportunity to go get a
young guy and let him learn from Rogers for a year,
if not compete for immedia playing time. But I just
I just don't know what's going to be out there
to be had. And again, this defense has so changed
my perception of what this season is capable of. And hey,
(38:28):
maybe I'll be eating these words. You know, it's only
seven games in. You can get better and things do change,
But I just see so many issues on that side
of the ball.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I don't think it matters.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
There was a time at four and one when I
was thinking, hey, maybe you win this division, maybe you
can tend for a buy, maybe you get a couple
home playoff games. I don't know they could still win
a division because I don't think any of these teams
are very good.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nice little Ravens lost.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Yeah, So I guess the long cumbersome answer is, I
don't know that there's the trade to be made that
would be significantly impactful.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Are you just from a mentality standpoint, like the Bengals
are leaning into their offense, Are you leaning into this
offense right now?
Speaker 4 (39:12):
I think that's your only choice. What unit has a
chance to do more than it's doing right now? I
think it's the offense because he got the quarterback. I
think the quarterback's playing tremendous football. And I can't believe,
after all these years since Ben left, they've just been
waiting for this guy, and now he's here and they
can't do anything with him so collectively, not that you
(39:34):
know he's not doing anything.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You know, the defense is troublesome. And twenty consecutive completions,
that's troublesome.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's yeah, I mean so, I think it's pretty clear
that when the defense doesn't get splash, sacks, force fumbles, turnovers,
et cetera, etcetera, etcetera, bad to pass the line of scrimmage.
And I still think they're about the best defense in
the league at doing so, but teams are mitigating it
by short controlled passing, and the splash hasn't been there
(40:08):
for two weeks and they've lost, and all the sins
of the down to down, poor play show up now.
I do think they will get more splash going forward.
I don't think they'll have games with zero sacks and
no turnovers over and over and over. But they're given
away completions like it's Halloween candy now, I mean they
really are. I mean they're easy throws.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I mean like the real candy bars too, not the
nice ones.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, the big heavy snickers Yeah right, yeah, the watch mccallins,
you know, I mean, and good quarterbacks are going to slight.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
That would have been that would have been down with
probably the Zagnut bar on the Clark bar, but the watch,
see the watch mccull well that if you come by
my house for trick or treat, make sure I have
(41:03):
some for you.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Will we can take How'd you come up with stella
for your dog?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
By the way, my son came up with Yeah, it
didn't It didn't have to do with the movie. It
might have had more to do with that, Okay, so
that might have come into play. So you know, when
you look at this defense and all the completions that
they're allowing, I think one of the things that I
(41:32):
find troublesome or worrisome is the last two weeks. So
if you think about this defense, like just in general,
I thought, okay, force a team into third and long,
maybe you roll that coverage up, right, That's why you
got those corners. So now if you bring the blitz,
and it's been the Steelers were never we're not a
(41:54):
blitz heavy team last year. Right, So but now you
can because you forced the team in the third and
eight or third and six. You've got those corners that
can make a quarterback hesitate?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Is the open always not open? Now you're done, there's
no second option because here comes the blitz. Right, generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
That was the off season planning.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Generally speaking, they're the last two weeks. And I don't
know why this is. I don't pretend to know what's
going on in the heads of different coordinators, what have you.
The students have blitzed and not gotten home. Now, whether
that's quick releases or just teams know what's coming and
combating that, I don't know why, but the students. BUTZ
(42:35):
had been extremely effective through my eyes through the first
five games of the season and has been pretty much
ineffective as certainly not nearly as effective as it had been.
And I don't know why that is.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I think there's a couple of things. And first off,
not on they blitzing a lot, but they bring six exactly,
They bring exactly blitzes. That's aggressive blitzes. Now, was the
duck play to the tight end?
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Was the six man?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's right? Yeah, it was one of a time that
almost got home.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Oh smidge right, but on the heartbeat.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right, almost doesn't count.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I mean we all.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Remember the day or the time when that play resulted
in a Steeler pick and a nice return to maybe
the twenty one yard line and the place going crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
And not a fifty nine yard game for the other team.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
But I also think in order to live that way,
and it was really true against Cincinnati, you're gonna have
to play press man, not just off man. I mean,
like the ball's coming out super I mean there's real
themes in these two games. I mean, the balls out
and well under two point five, you're playing off coverage.
Quarterbacks are quick processors. Your blitzes are not getting home.
(43:44):
But that doesn't mean you should abandoned them. They're close,
you know, I mean maybe just a little one lucky too.
It's two games sample size. I still think there's good
pass rushers on this team. I don't have it in
front of me, but I will tell you when they're blitzing.
Has become a little predictable, and I think that, you know,
there's a lot of coaches around the league and quality
control guys that just break this stuff down that when
(44:06):
they get the third and long, they're blitzing six, you know,
like they I think people are getting a bead on
when the blitzes are coming. But I think more than anything,
it comes down to a slow and maybe overrated secondary
that you invested in with the thought of we have
all these good cover guys, now we can unleash the blitz. Well,
the back end, including the linebackers, is not holding up
(44:28):
their end of the bargain at all.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
They're in desperate need of a victory this week. The
Ravens are at the Dolphins on Thursday night and are
going to continue to try to put pressure on the Steelers.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I think that's going to be the end of that
tough for the road team on Thursday night.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Tread Ravens have a very favorable schedule.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Especially since Miami just got there with by the way
everybody loses them all nobody wins the ball.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
One of the things they pointed to with are the
Ravens dead yet at one in five, that they have
the twenty fourth hardest schedule and the Steelers have the
tenth hardest schedule going into this weekend's games, and that
four win Bears team represented one of the tougher games.
Tough game for the Bengal, for the for the Ravens.
By the way, the Bengals, you lost, meaning the Steelers,
(45:19):
they're still not out of it even with that loss
to the Jets. Now do I think they're a playoff team?
I mean they got too They got to do a
lot of things right. If you believe nine wins could
win the division, then yeah, the Bengals are probably still
in it at three and five, but if it's ten wins,
but it's going to be hard for them to get
to it's gonna be hard for them to play seven
and two football.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
And then string is the Broncos, the Chargers, the Texans,
the Patriots are looking like really strong wildcard team right
like you might have to own might be winning division
or boss.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And now the seven and one
Colts taking on the four and three Steelers. And you know,
again when you talk about your percent options of a
team and you think about the Colts, and you know,
the Colts were eight and nine last year. They beat
the Steelers last year. It wasn't like this was a
(46:10):
four win team. This isn't Demiko. Ryan's taking a team
that was terrible, getting CJ. Stroud and taken into the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
You think the Steelers have been looking for a quarterback
since Ben right, Yeah, these guys have gone through everybody
since Andrew Luck that's right, who retired like two weeks
before training camp. Like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, so they're eight and nine last year, and so
everyone's waiting for Okay, yeah, all right, Cinderella, wake up,
Glass Slipper doesn't fit anymore. Okay, And now it's like
wait a minute, man, they're seven and one and this
is a good football team coming to Akrocher Stadium and
it's not must win, but man, this is this is
(46:45):
a game that can that can you know, completely change
your fortunes and your outlook, I think for the Steelers.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Especially with the trip to LA to play the Chargers
after that on a Sunday night, who just ran it down?
Brian flow his throat for two hundred and seven rushing yards.
I'll tell you what, Robert's the NFL, and I can
make no more compelling argument than we just saw Cleveland,
(47:12):
and we just saw Green Bay and Cleveland beat green Bay.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Right, Yep, it has been a strange year. Now, having
said that, you look up now and it feels like
the world is maybe getting back on its axis here right.
The Bills just oh, if you thought Carolina was oh,
maybe they're no, they just got destroyed. You know, the
(47:39):
Lions look like the Lions again. The Bills looked like
the Bills again. The Chiefs looked like the Chiefs again. Eagles,
the Eagles looked like the Eagles again. So you know,
you go into this weekend Matt, thinking, you know, what
do we have here in the NFL? And now maybe
we're finding what we thought we were going to find
at the beginning of the season. And so this would
(48:00):
be a big win if you can knock off this
Colts team at home.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah. But if this was I always do this during
the week, if this was Colts Nation Radio, you'd be like,
we are the Chiefs now, we are the Eagles now.
It's right, and it took me a long time to
come around that. Yeah, this is cute story. I'm totally
in on this team. I think that's coach of the Year,
it's offensive player of the year. Their defense is good,
it's improved. They're a powerhouse and they can beat you
(48:25):
a lot of ways, but it all goes through Jonathan
Taylor and they had to be salivating watching that game.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Steelers lose by the final score of thirty five to
twenty five to the Packers, shopping their record to four
and three, still best in the AFC North, but again
some big matchups coming up beginning Sunday against the Colts
at Actrasure Stadium. For our producer, our steam producer, Justin Miller,
he is for Matt Williams said four Mic Presuda, I'm
rob king draft guy. But the point after presented by
(48:52):
your neighborhood Ford Storing, the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it
direct from the team at shop dot Steelers dot com,
on DVE and Steelers Audio Network
Thanks for being with us for the point After, presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store and the Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at shop dot Steelers
dot com, here on DVE and the Steelers Audio Network.
Alongside Mike Persuda and Matt Williamson, I'm rob King following
the Steelers thirty five to twenty five loss to the
Green Bay Packers, a game that in an earlier show
(00:30):
I described as being something like an avalanche. Like Matt,
once it started, there was nothing the Steelers seemed to
be able to do to stem the tide. That the
Packers usually just roll over them in this game. And
let's face it, you know, thirty five twenty five, But
the Packers won this one going away, no question.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And they were very, very impressive. And I always want
to give the opponent some credit the day after, and
they deserve a lot in their contender. But even a
week ago, the avalanche didn't hit as hard from the Bengals.
But I remember Mike saying pretty much after the first
quarter against the Bengals, it felt like the Steelers couldn't
quite knock them out in the first round, and then
(01:15):
they lost the twelve round fight you know, against Cincinnati,
and we were making things, you know, talk to that
last week about hey, do we want to start on
the offense or the defense? You know, last half empty,
glass half full? And all last week I analyzed that
Bengals game, going, Yeah, the glass was about forty nine
percent full in there. It wasn't quite fifty, but it
was forty nine percent. And this game it felt like
(01:36):
the glass is like thirty percent full and it's all offense.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Still.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, I do think, Matt, and I'm going to give
you a brief opportunity to well, let me come back
to that because I want to get Mike's satts at first,
and Mike give us your general thoughts of the game.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'll give you some thoughts as to my reaction first,
because I'm sitting here and I did the morning show
and did the post game last night, and I have
these two thoughts bouncing around in my head. One is
you hear Cam Hayward talking about the level of fight
not being sufficient, and you hear Patrick Queen talking about
(02:15):
being timid and getting frustrated, and I'm thinking, who are
these Like, Yeah, yeah, the last thing I ever thought
I would be discussing regarding the Steelers.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Was that stuff, right, But here we are.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And now I'm thinking, all right, how do you get
out of this? There's still four and three, there's stile
in first place in the division. How do they win
games moving forward? And I'm thinking they got to try
to be like the Bengals and outscore their own defense.
And this is not an advantageous position to be in.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's also very unusual one for this game.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, so, Matt, I want to come back to you
in a minute, because I just wanted to Mike. There's
just so much to follow up on in this game,
you know, going through the game with Max earlier on
the Locker Room Show, and so you know, we're less
(03:11):
than twelve hours removed from the end of the game, right,
the game had ended like ten hours before we started
that show. And the overwhelming feeling I had walking back
to my car last night was oo. Man, that was
a pummeling, Right. That was because you're left with the
last thought of the game. And I'll reverse this back
to you, Matt in just a moment. But when you
(03:33):
think about we went through drive by driving the game
and some of the things that happened, when you think about, Okay,
so let's talk about the stemming of the tide. Like
what Cam Hayward was talking about, there were ample opportunities
on offense and on defense for this for the Steelers
to do that. It wasn't just the defense. It was
(03:56):
mostly the defense. They gave up thirty five points, Mike.
But you know, when you have opportunities to come up
with a drive and you have penalties and you have
a sack and you have different things. Regardless of why
it happened, the fact that you couldn't either go on
a long drive or couldn't make a stop when you
(04:18):
needed to make a stop, I think for a lot
of Steelers fans it probably felt like those last five
games of last season in which you found yourself with
a ten and three record, You had opportunities against top
teams to stem the tide, and whether you couldn't do it,
and it's what Cam Hayward was talking about, whether you
simply aren't good enough, which is certainly going to be
(04:40):
a lot of people's perceptions. You had opportunities to stem
the tide and you couldn't do it, and that's troublesome.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, and let's take it back to the playoff game.
Last year, kirk Herbstreet telling America, where's the fight? We're
asking America. These are the Pittsburgh Steelers. Where's the fight?
From the Baltimore game? Right, not all that dissimilar to
what Cam Heyward and Patrick Queen we're talking about last night.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I told my secretary to hold.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Back, so while you while you go ahead and take
that call and uh and hopefully rejoin us in the show.
You know when you said thirty, Matt, and I was
surprised because I had that who feeling walking back to
my car, like like they got blown out here.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Also, it was kind of chilly, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Uh it wasn't too bad though, Uh it was at
cool so uh it was hours later when you were
going out to your car after the Charlie, I was
only midnight. You were two am.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah, you know, great time to be on the North
Shore by the way.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Oh yeah, fabulous time.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Nothing like walking to the to the back of the
Science Center hoping it's a safe walk back to get
your car when it's the only one left in the
parking lot. I did that show for a couple of
years too, Mike, so you know you were leading sixteen
to seven at the half. Yeah, okay, So for thirty minutes,
(06:10):
not only were you leading, but there were such good signs. Okay, yes,
you were helped out by two missfield goals, right, but
there was also a ball on the ground that you
didn't get to, a couple of fumbles that you could
have pounced on that could have kept the momentum going
your way. The Packers had the best third down offense
in the NFL. You held them to over four They
had the number two rush defense in the NFL, and
(06:33):
you ran for eighty one yards and you were averaging
well over five yards to carry. There was a lot
to like about the first thirty minutes of football. In fact,
at that point I thought the Steelers were gonna win
the game.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I did two I did too. And the biggest reason
there's things we touched on is because Jacobs was the
scariest thing going into me. You know, like to win
this game. Jacobs can't dominate. They kept them pretty much
under the whole day, let alone the first half, and
the Packers running game wasn't that great. And you mentioned it.
The Steelers ran the ball quite well in the first half.
(07:10):
Now I know there's more reasons for it. But Warren
only got three second half carries. Yeah, and you got
the opening kickoff and you had a lead. I mean,
I know they only held the ball for like ten
minutes in the second half, but still I'm not sure.
It might have been a little early to get away
from maybe your best offensive player. But there's also some
fundamental issues. I mean, the defense down in and down
(07:30):
out all year has been way below the line, you know,
and they've lived off splash plays, and for two weeks
in a row now they haven't got splashed.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay, So I do want to get to the larger issues, yea, yeah, yeah,
But I just wanted to touch on this myself. I
just wanted to touch on this, this feeling because the
general feeling I had was, Wow, you kind of got
out classed on Sunday night football and this.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Hit like five minutes go against the good teams. It
feels like the end of last year in the playoff game. Well,
this was a good team, right, you know, the Bengals
were good on one side of the ball.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Having said that, though, when you go through those games
the Eagles, they never led the Chiefs. Uh, they had
an opportunity to have a lead late in the first half.
There's that holding penalty that I still think was a
dubious call that took back a Warren touchdown. But you
know you weren't really you weren't in control of that game.
(08:29):
You weren't in control of the of the Ravens game,
that the Bengals game. The end the season was back
and forth, and then in the Ravens playoff game you
pretty much got blown out.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Rob
but if we're clutching to things like you had a
chance to be leading in the first quarter, oh no.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is no,
I no, I'm I'm trying to be I'm trying to
be dismissive of that man. That's what I'm trying to
do here. Maybe I'm not saying it the right way,
but in those five games, you didn't have anything that
felt like the first thirty minutes of last night, which
(09:08):
you're leading the game and the time of possession was
seventeen forty eight to twelve twelve, and you kicked off
a lot of times. Time of possession is dictated a
little bit by who gets the ball first, and you
would have thought, now this Toeer, So I'm thinking, look, man,
it's sixteen to seven. You got a couple breaks, they
got a couple of breaks. Let's call it a wash.
If you go down on your opening drive and punch
(09:33):
it in, which you just did right at the end,
you punch it in, it's a completely different game. At
no point, and this is the point I'm trying to make,
At no point really in those games last year did
I have that feeling, Oh, I thought you were in it.
You had a chance to get back in it, and
in Philadelphia had a chance to get back in it.
(09:54):
In Baltimore, you had control of this game. It was
hard for me to remember that until I went back
over the game with Max, because of the fact that
they got decimated in the fourth quarter. They were leading
going into the fourth quarter. I'd forgotten that.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, you know, there's a lot to be critical of
regarding how the game played out, But am my nuts
or did this game changed completely on one play third
and five from the greenvicker Cream.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Jordan loves a great quarterback.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
All he did was throw it up for grabs under
incredible duress, and he threw a punt that their guy
caught and the Steelers guy in this case to Sean Elliott,
did not.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
And then they'll tackle him. And then Elliott gets.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Injured and it's a devastating injury to a heart and soul,
critical component guy.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
And after that it was just the game had changed.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, in writing that neighborhood, there's a couple of calls
that went against you.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, in a couple, So listen. Let's listen to the play.
Here's what happened to what Mike was talking about. Love
in the shotgun gets the snap, Steelers bringing pressure, Love
under duress, clings it up. Feel that it's.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Caught by Craft a lofting ball and he brings it
in hustling down the right sideline, dragging defenders, gets inside
the thirty all the way down to the twenty six
yard line. It was a lame duck heaved up in
the air by Love, and it's Craft who makes the
adjustment to come back and make the catch and get
it all the way down to the twenty six yard
(11:32):
line where de Sean Elliott now is writhing in pain.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, you lost Elliott too, which is one guy you
probably can't afford to losing that defense, I mean, which.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Is an emotional blow.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it's a lot of things. Yeah, but to your point,
So to recap the drive before that, the Steelers get
the ball to begin, right, and you're thinking, okay, march down,
get some points on the board. You know, let's get
closer to the end of the game. Even if you
kick a field goal, it's still another score. And now
the Packers have got to maybe do some some different
(12:05):
things offensively. You get a non call, which is a
double edged sword. First of all, the balls throwing to
Roman Wilson. Roman will probably tell you I'd like to
come down with that ball. Nice play by Keishawn Nixon,
who's been to two Pro Bowls. I get that knocks
it away, but uh it's still a you know, no
(12:26):
call by the referee. And then I was offside? Was
it was clearly offside? I'm still mystified by that.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And I'm not sure Rogers attempts to pass, doesn't think it's.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Exactly so he's sick and he's got a free play,
and so all these things contrived to work against you.
But getting back to your point, Mike, and then you
did march down, and have a decent drive and kick
a field goal and extend your lead again. But again,
you know these are in the world of professional sports.
(12:58):
These feel more like excuse is then reasons. Yeah, to
the point where we're talking about what Cam Hayward was
talking about after the game of the fight in this team.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
The fight and all that stuff is always hard for
me to comment on. Sure, I mean I agree, and
I definitely want to watch you all twenty two. I
thought there was some defensive business decisions here and there,
but they were the worst team schematically, talent wise, all
the above, some big picture things. I like the offense.
(13:30):
I think the offense is solid, but the offense can't
afford a holding penalty or a hackle for loss or
have to come from behind and I even said that
in the offseason.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Or a personal foul after a play is over and
instead of third and two, it's started seventeen exact.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And there was a couple of that kind of stuff
that they have no have that they can't right, zero
just can't.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Well you can't have There's a couple of things. I mean,
all of these things, and again I think, Mike, I
want to get back to those Cam Hayward comments, because
it looked that way. It's hard. We're not in the huddle.
We don't know what's going on. We don't know the intensity.
We do know that a fifteen yard penalty by DK Metcalf.
(14:09):
Instead of having a third and two on a drive
where you still have a chance to win the game,
you're third and seventeen because it occurs after the whistle,
and you can't overcome that Micah Parsons with a you
talk about a big player making a big play, Michael
Parsons sack. You start out second and twenty. You're not
equipped to overcome that. There goes another three and out
(14:31):
for this team. The penalty on Herbig again, you're teetering
on being in the game, and look, Herbig's second guy in.
He gets whistled for something. I understand why you did it.
You still can't do it. And now instead of them
having the ball at the forty their own forty, which
is troublesome enough, they've got the ball at your forty
five yard line. All of these things happen, and I
(14:53):
know the Packers are really good. All of these things happen,
but it looks like if you're a fan where's the pushback,
where's the big play, where's our sack of Jordan Love,
where's our big play to turn the momentum in our favor?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Force fumble the game?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well play two two weeks in a row, Mike, where
that hasn't happened?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
And you know, I appreciate where Matt's coming from. It's
hard for us to know who's fighting and who is right.
Sometimes guys say that it's a conditioned response, but I
don't know. It sounded just listening I'm doing the post
game show. I'm not in the locker room, but listening
to the tape recordings of Cam Hayward and Patrick Queen,
it sounded like they were being sincere and forthcoming.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And then you look at.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
The various stats that we have access to, and you
see the drive the ball possession and drive chart, and
you see Green Bay in the second half touchdown, touchdown, touchdown,
field goal, field goal, They're not that good.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Felt a lot like Cincinnati.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
No Mighty got to make a play in there some.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Way, scored on every second half meaningful drive.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Right, Yeah, And didn't that begin to feel a lot
like Cincinnati The week before where Cincinnati started to get
rolling in there was just nothing that could stem the tide.
And that's and I.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Do think mental toughness of does apply here. I mean, okay,
maybe people turned down attack or whatever, but to Mike's point,
on that craft play and then an injury and then
there should have been a penalty, but we didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
And yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
No one's kind you in this Nobody cares. Nobody cares.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Troublesome issues for sure, among among many troublesome issues for
a team that's now lost to in a row. We'll
be back on more on the Point. On the Point After,
presented by your neighborhood Forge Store and the students pro
shapp Get It directed, Steelers dot Com and Places and
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Back to the point After on dv E.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Rogers turns, throws, slam right, touchdown Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's dk met cap from three yards out.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Remember when the Steelers were flying high. That was at halftime, right,
they were flying high at half time. We talked about
the numbers. Okay, so we're gonna, Michael, We're gonna revisit it.
Eighty one yards rushing, more yards rushing in the first half,
five point four yards to carry more yards rushing in
the first half than the Packers average, giving up per
(17:25):
game one hundred and seventy six yards to one sixty five,
seventeen forty eight, time of possession to twelve twelve over
five minutes better, and of course sixteen to seven. Now,
let us look at the final statistics from this game,
the yards which were in favor of the Steelers by
thirteen going into half four fifty four to two ninety
(17:50):
five four fifty four. They had almost three hundred yards
just shy of three hundred yards in the second half
of Allen. That's that's rare. That's rare.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
And again I think Jordan Love is great, uh, and
they obviously know how to coach offense up there in Wisconsin,
and they've got some guys. But one hundred of those yards,
give or take, were two chuck it in Hope places
that just can't happen. The one that we talked about,
the Craft and the one the Watson. I can't believe
(18:26):
they got away with both of those.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
They weren't skilled quarterback playing no like let's just hope.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Throw it up in Hope.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, And if you take those away, it's a differentty
good it's a different game.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So, by the way, ten minute time of possession advantage
in the second half of the Packers in the second half,
second half, not for the second half. Yeah, not five
minutes per half, second half.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It is already crazy. This time possession stuff is going
to really start to bite them. I mean, they just
start losing defensive players. They're gonna yeah, I mean, if it.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Hasn't already, And you had eighty one yards you're rushing
in the first half, and you had twelve in the
second half, and largely because you just didn't run the ball.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I mean, warn to three carries the second half, then
you got the ball.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So those are not good final numbers. It isn't. And
in the fourth quarter the defense for the Steelers gave
up twenty eight points. It was just our twenty eight
second half points. Matt, they just rolled. And this is now,
you know, you can point to a game here, point
(19:29):
to a game there. Mike just pointed to a couple
of plays. I think we could point to a couple
of plays. I think we could point to the Jets
game right field goal, the Seattle game in the lost column,
probably two plays there. You don't recover a kickoff, you
gift them seven points and then the you know the
ding dong ding ricochet rabbit interception in the end zone
(19:50):
that takes points off the board for you. Ricket Rabbit,
there is some kind of.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Noise got him on that one.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Bigger better than Rabbit Moranville. He you always bring up
every time.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Better, So you know you had really big ears.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You can you needed to come up with a stop
against Cincinnati. You know, we could always point to a
couple of plays here and there, but again, that's not
the mentality you want anymore than you know, well, you
know the calls went against this this game. You can't
have that kind of mentality. And you know when you
look at the bigger picture, and we could talk about
the offense in a little bit, but you can't have
(20:37):
seven games played and four of those games you gave
up more than thirty points. You you're just that that's
that's not a winning formula.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
No, I mean you have to have Burrow, Higgins and
Chase last year like the Bengals. That's Bengals defense from
last year. And that gets you to five hundred, right.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
In which they lost a record amount of games in
which I think they'd scored thirty three or more points.
No team had ever lost the best game look at him.
Yesterday they lost to the Jets thirty nine to thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yeah, but they've also, you know, made some salad out
of less than salad like ingredients in Cincinnati played it
that way.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I mean, if that's what you got, that's what you got,
right right.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
And I still think this offense for the Steelers in
both these last two games, more scoring early would have
changed the way the game played out late. As good
as we all felt at halftime, they all had the
one touchdown. That ball to DK metcalf. I don't know
how you guys saw it. It looked like to me
it hit him in the hands. And let me ask
you this, Matt.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He's always like a play away.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Do you know who that cornerback was? His name is
Carrington Valentine.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
You remember this guy.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I don't know a ton about him, but right seventh
round are out of Kentucky a couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
I mean, that's that's Rogers finding a one on one
that the Steelers gotta love that matchup.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Oh, I'm sure on Wednesday were like, if I get
DK on Valentine, I'm going.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
There, and I think the ball was where he wanted
it to be, play didn't get finished.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I mean, I'm not picking on Metcalf. He's not the problem.
But it's to be the same conversation last week about
but don't they like, especially let Turner rip the ball
away from him.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
If the defense is going to be a soft then
that this is the way you compensate.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
If not, you lose.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And to be frank, if this defense is gonna be
this soft, you're gonna have to go for it more
than fourth downs. You're not going to settle for field
goals anymore. Sixteen points in the first half's great. I mean,
you're on pace for thirty two. You're doing well. But
to your point, one or two of those were touchdowns.
Now you might seal the deal, you know. I mean,
field goals are going to keep good teams in it. Yeah,
(22:38):
I mean, but the defense, to me is obviously the
elephant in the room. We've talked about it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
But where do you see the improve, Like, is it
more likely they start playing good defense or Metcalf starts
playing making more plays.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
That's a thing. I mean, Like, I don't envy Tomlin either, yea,
because maybe it is a smart move to punt here
or take the field goal or take the lay of
whatever and keep the lead and stick around. But he's
probably in the back of my head like, man, this
defense stinks, but I don't think it's always going to stink.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Well, you know there was a time.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Is believing in something when you can't see it.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Faith. It's coincidental that they played Green Bay last night.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
And notice I said coincidental and not ironic, because I
know the correct usage.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well done.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
There was a game against the Packers when Aaron Rodgers
was quarterbacking against Ben Roethlisberger and Mike Tomlin took the
lead and then on side kicked. They can't do this
anymore because you got to declare the onside kick, but.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
He on side kicked.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Under the theory, well if we don't get it, they'll
score quicker and we'll have time to score at the end.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And that is exactly how the game played out.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Like he needs to get back to that line of thinking, like, hey,
I thought these guys were going to be historic this
just then they're not.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
You got head coach accordingly or the historic the wrong way,
And all I can say Mike is, oh the irony, because, oh,
the coincidence doesn't sound very Oh the coincidence.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
It's it's just like destiny and faith makes they control
their own destiny.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
No, they don't. Destiny is predetermined.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
They control their fate, which is any one of a
number of potential outcomes.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Nobody controls destiny.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yes, it isn't fate the same thing.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Fate can go a number of ways, can it.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Then it's not your fate.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It's an eventuality. Okay, that's destiny's predetermined. Man.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Well, yeah, I agree with that, but I had I
had fate in the same in the same category.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
They were hoping for a better faith because fate is
up in the air.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Well it's still there though, and you just don't know
what it's. The outcome is going to be your fate.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
In case people haven't already turned the channel.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
And I hate this argument I'm making that. You know,
they got to steer into this Bengals thing. But I
just I don't see a fix for this defense. So
I've lost I've lost faith ginger right.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Which is again by definition, believing in something you can't see, right,
that's faith, and that's insanity.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Which is believing something is going to change when it
keeps happening over and over and over.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And there's one slender definition of as long as we're
getting to face its destiny and fate, it's only one.
That's also there's other ways to define insanity.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That that's also called practice.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Right, you're not a good free throw shooter, you practice
it and hope it gets better.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So so clearly destiny and fate is something that's gotten
under your skin. That is being the definition of insanity's
gotten under my skin, because there's far more definitions than
that regardless. Uh So, I think Mike brings up the
point about Cincinnati, and I think it is it is
worth asking the question of where are you right now?
(25:51):
So Mike Tomlin, and again I look around the NFL,
and I see teams that don't have a quarterback and
don't games. I see the guy in Cleveland who's won
two Coach of the Year awards in his five seasons
as an NFL coach. I think it's a sixth season
now and as an average way as a record way
(26:11):
below five hundred because he's not winning without a quarterback.
That's not the only reason, but he's not winning and
they've had the defense right, and look around the league,
lots of teams winning, not winning without a quarterback. Mike
Tomlin has won without a quarterback. He's got a quarterback now,
and Aaron Rodgers. I think we all believe that, But
I don't know if you know in these in these
(26:32):
winning these games, he said, look, here's my faith. My
faith is in the defense, special teams. We're gonna kick,
We're gonna pin him deep, We're gonna stop him. That's
why we're gonna win the game. I don't know whether
he needs to rethink that strategy based on what's happening
with his defense, but I do think it's a fair
question to ask, where are the dealers right now? Where
(26:53):
are they? It's always been you can rely on the defense.
Is there an area you can rely on right now
with this team?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think you can rely on the offense. I think
you can rely on Rogers and frankly, I commended them
for being built the way they are on offense, so
tight end centric, and they're difficult to play against. You know,
it's kind of like Patrick Card with the Ravens. I mean,
if you do weird stuff, you're hard to prepare for. However,
(27:21):
I also said, when it's third and twelve, or if
you're down twelve with five minutes to play, you can't
just throw three tight ends out there and get there,
you know what I mean. Now, Roman Wilson's doing some
better stuff, Calvin Austin's healthy, Metcalp's a good player. Maybe
he's not a true one jam Ar Chase, of course,
but you could lean into it and say, well, let's
(27:44):
add more firepower and throw the ball like crazy. But
I also think you have to balance it out with
running the ball and winning the time possession stuff. I mean,
the first half they won the time possession, the score
was going their way. The second half of total opposite.
But time of possessions is symptom. I mean, you go
to the doctor saying, my time of possession hurts. He's like, well,
because you can't stop the run it off the field,
(28:07):
you know what I mean. And that's the root of it, though,
Like the biggest thing you can't count on because we've
now seen what seven games or whatever down to down,
consistency on defense isn't there at all.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So I do wonder if the Steelers.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Well, there is downtown consistency. He's just consistently bad.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yes, Yeah, And you know Ciamalo came out peck injury
in the first half, comes out in the second half,
plays one series, then he's done. That takes the jumbo
package away from your offense. And that's not insignificant, but
not at all. But again, Mike, you've got to find
a way to overcome that in a game. Other teams
(28:48):
have injuries as well. The Packers lost a couple offensive
linement during different times, and I know it doesn't maybe
affect what they want to do schematically the same way
as far as personnel leading to what you do. But
you've got to find ways to overcome These can't be
excuses or reasons for defeat. You've got to find a
way to get around that. But it was a significant
(29:09):
injury and it does take away a significant part of
their offense. Still, you gotta find a way. You gotta
find a way around it.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, I just I'm not sure what that is.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
They did get away from the run, but it was
kind of circumstantial. I thought, you know, they started out
the play they ran first down in the third quarter
looked like a throwaway, like they were trying to strike
and you know, trying to keep the pedal down, try
to keep scoring, and then you had the encroachment that
(29:42):
wasn't the next series, as you mentioned, they did go
down and get a field goal. How'd they get there, Well,
they had a slant to metcalf that went for twenty four,
they had to check down the warrant that went for eleven.
That stuff was kind of working too.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Right, and then a sack by Parsons that was it.
That was Look, if you're looking at individual play in
that sort of you know, wounded duck. The craft was
a big one. Parsons man, that's a big time player
who was pretty quiet all game. The biggest thing he
did was flush Rogers and get Gary a sack in
the first half. That's the only time we mentioned his
(30:15):
name from the pregame show until that sack. The only
time we mentioned his name was he flushed Rogers to
get Gary the sack in the first half. But man,
that's what big time players do, and the Studers have
a lot of big time players in their defense and
they're looking for those kind of big time plays as well.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
And that was right at the start of the fourth quarter,
and it looked to me like they were trying to
go deep shot to Metcalf.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
They had three tight ends in the game. I didn't
write down.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
What the protection was how many guys they kept in,
but I think Parsons went through at least two players,
if not three.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
It was just an all world play by him.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
It came when he had not been trailing since the
early touchdown by the Packers.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
TJ. Watt eligible to make one of those.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
By the way, yep, I think they doubled Metcalf on
that instance. I don't know if that's surprise Rogers or
he just decided not to put it up there and
risk it. But now all of a sudden, it's second
and twenty one and that possession is scuttled and by
the time you get the.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Ball back, you're down ten. Yep, there goes you run.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
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point After is presented by your neighborhood Fords tour and
by the Steelers Pro Shop get it direct from the
team at shop dot Steelers dot Com, on DVE and
(31:35):
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Back to the point after on DVE.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Pumping trying to direct traffic and throws towards the back
of the end zone, caught by Roman Wilson.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
No he didn't come down with it. And they're gonna
say incomplete.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, okay, yeah, thank you. We don't know what a
catch still is. I mean, my goodness, yeah, that was
a weird play because and let me let me go
on my soapbox right now and say I cannot stand
the completion rule. I always joke with people like I
(32:12):
got a dog, right, my dog Stella. I throw her
a ball, the tennis ball. I don't applaud her until
she comes down with all four paws and makes a
canine move. I mean, it's ridiculous, man, Seriously, two feet down, simple,
two feet down. That's all you need to street Cord. No,
two feet down as a touchdown. Two feet down is
(32:33):
a catch. Just go back to that rotation. He has
two feet down, then a third foot down, then they
knock it out. We're like, what how is that not
a touchdown?
Speaker 3 (32:43):
We're wondering.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But then we're like, is there is there some weird rule?
We didn't know he had three feet down, but he
didn't turn his head to the right, and you know,
and uh, salute the American flat What what what are
we doing here?
Speaker 4 (32:54):
We're asking questions? Let me ask this about it. Whether
a ball is passed or fumbled? When Rogers being engulfed
by the Green Bay defense and he just kind of
pulls his hand out and drops it, that's a pass.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
That's a pass. Really, that's a complete.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah forward, that was And by the way.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Had he played by him because he knows the rules, right,
that's that can't be.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
There was a I thought there was one of the
earlier games.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I was at Caleb Williams who threw one out of
bounds and they called them for intentional grounding. It might
have been Caleb Williams. I can't remember who it was.
I was a young quarterback. I thought, what are we
doing here?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Man?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I mean there was a guy within ten yards of it, right,
so now you have to make a judgment call. Well,
he was trying to throw it away, Yeah, but the
guy was ten yards away. But that last night, that's
an incompletion. Yeah, I mean that's not that's not even
it was an incompletion. That's not intentional grounding.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Well no, because he got hit. If you get hit,
it's not ground.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
But it's just like the League of Plausible Deniabilities, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Uh, I don't want to get into the Giants Eagles
thing with the.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, I don't. I don't care for it. I just
just make it simple. Take it out of the take
it out of the hands. You have two feet down,
you have control of the ball. That's it. Now you
have to see what's a football move and you have
to do all this interpretation and just just.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Will say though, if you're watching the broadcast, the ref expert,
they immediately went to him on the Wilson plays like,
oh that's a catch.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
He was pretty cool about.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
About that. There's only one ref expert, the one that's charge.
His name is until I hear from me Gene tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well we thought we thought it was a touchdown, but
we didn't. You know. Uh, look, you're you're you're trying
to call the game and figure out what's going on.
I'm not watching or listening to the broadcast, but I'm
glad they got it right. And I guess my question
before we move too much further on Roman Wilson's career
game for him first career touchdown. Yeah, you know, I
at the sense and got the sense all through mini
(35:02):
camp that the students were high on them. They just
didn't really need them. They got you know, they had
a formation this year where they had to I guess
you'd call it an four right. He was to twelve
he means one running back to they had no running
backs and four tight ends end. Is that an four
person I've never seen that before. I've never I've never
seen that. I guess it exists. You would know that
(35:23):
better than anybody. But you know, maybe they've got something
here in Roman Wilson. We're looking for for more offense
and you know, maybe he can be a guy.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, two weeks in a row, he's trending the right direction,
he's making plays, he's getting more playing time. That's a
big thing. I look at his snap counts and you know,
when are you out there in passing situations? Way more
than the first six games these last two weeks. So yeah,
I think trust is the right word.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I don't think there's anything sinister. They used two tight
ends a lot, they used three tight.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Ends a lot.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I don't think Roman Wilson as we sit here today
is better than DK Metcalf, Calvin Austin, and I plugged
them using Austin and Metcalf as much as humingly possible
in two wide receiver sets because one of those guys
has a shot at getting single coverage, and if one
of them does, Rogers.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Is pretty good likelihood he's gonna take a shot at
it last night.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
To Matt's point, they're not built to be behind by
two scores in the fourth quarter, but they were. So
they want a lot of three wide receiver sets and
he got some moments.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So let's talk about that. And the reason I'm bringing
it up is because the trade deadline is coming up.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Is it a week Tuesday after next week? It's like
November four fourth, Yes, it's a week from tomorrow. It's
a week from Tuesday, right, yeah, right, yeah, So you
got one more game coming up against the Colts. We'll
talk about that game coming up in a little bit.
But Mike, you talked about you know, the Bengals are
leaning into who they are, right you go out and
get Flacco and let's score a bunch of points, and
(36:52):
if we score thirty.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Eight, we may win, and we may not win. You know,
we scored thirty three, we may win and we may
not win. As it turned out, of course, they did.
They beat the Steelers. But you know, a lot of
talk about should the Steelers be in a market for
you know, another wide receiver. I don't know, if anything,
I don't know where you've stood in that camp. I
don't know in that camp, not in that camp. What
(37:15):
you think, uh, whether they should do anything at the
trade deadline? Again, we could talk about this a little
bit next week, but is there anything offensively that you
think the Steelers need to do? Or just keep saying, Hey,
it's trending in the right direction, let's keep going.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
You know, it's like any trade in any sport. What
are you getting and what are you giving? Right?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
For sure? I mean, what are you going to get?
I don't know what's out there?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Base.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
I would make a deal that I hate to sound
cliched on this. I would make a deal that I
thought could help my team. But the other question they
got to be wrestling with now is can this team
be helped? Because I think the plan all along has
been to maintain as much draft cap, but as possible
to give yourself every opportunity to move up in the
draft in the first round if you're quarterback hunting next spring,
(38:08):
which probably going to be right even if Rogers would
come back, I think perfect opportunity to go get a
young guy and let him learn from Rogers for a year,
if not compete for immedia playing time. But I just
I just don't know what's going to be out there
to be had. And again, this defense has so changed
my perception of what this season is capable of. And hey,
(38:28):
maybe I'll be eating these words. You know, it's only
seven games in. You can get better and things do change,
But I just see so many issues on that side
of the ball.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I don't think it matters.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
There was a time at four and one when I
was thinking, hey, maybe you win this division, maybe you
can tend for a buy, maybe you get a couple
home playoff games. I don't know they could still win
a division because I don't think any of these teams
are very good.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nice little Ravens lost.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Yeah, So I guess the long cumbersome answer is, I
don't know that there's the trade to be made that
would be significantly impactful.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Are you just from a mentality standpoint, like the Bengals
are leaning into their offense, Are you leaning into this
offense right now?
Speaker 4 (39:12):
I think that's your only choice. What unit has a
chance to do more than it's doing right now? I
think it's the offense because he got the quarterback. I
think the quarterback's playing tremendous football. And I can't believe,
after all these years since Ben left, they've just been
waiting for this guy, and now he's here and they
can't do anything with him so collectively, not that you
(39:34):
know he's not doing anything.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You know, the defense is troublesome. And twenty consecutive completions,
that's troublesome.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's yeah, I mean so, I think it's pretty clear
that when the defense doesn't get splash, sacks, force fumbles, turnovers,
et cetera, etcetera, etcetera, bad to pass the line of scrimmage.
And I still think they're about the best defense in
the league at doing so, but teams are mitigating it
by short controlled passing, and the splash hasn't been there
(40:08):
for two weeks and they've lost, and all the sins
of the down to down, poor play show up now.
I do think they will get more splash going forward.
I don't think they'll have games with zero sacks and
no turnovers over and over and over. But they're given
away completions like it's Halloween candy now, I mean they
really are. I mean they're easy throws.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I mean like the real candy bars too, not the
nice ones.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, the big heavy snickers Yeah right, yeah, the watch mccallins,
you know, I mean, and good quarterbacks are going to slight.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
That would have been that would have been down with
probably the Zagnut bar on the Clark bar, but the watch,
see the watch mccull well that if you come by
my house for trick or treat, make sure I have
(41:03):
some for you.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Will we can take How'd you come up with stella
for your dog?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
By the way, my son came up with Yeah, it
didn't It didn't have to do with the movie. It
might have had more to do with that, Okay, so
that might have come into play. So you know, when
you look at this defense and all the completions that
they're allowing, I think one of the things that I
(41:32):
find troublesome or worrisome is the last two weeks. So
if you think about this defense, like just in general,
I thought, okay, force a team into third and long,
maybe you roll that coverage up, right, That's why you
got those corners. So now if you bring the blitz,
and it's been the Steelers were never we're not a
(41:54):
blitz heavy team last year. Right, So but now you
can because you forced the team in the third and
eight or third and six. You've got those corners that
can make a quarterback hesitate?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Is the open always not open? Now you're done, there's
no second option because here comes the blitz. Right, generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
That was the off season planning.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Generally speaking, they're the last two weeks. And I don't
know why this is. I don't pretend to know what's
going on in the heads of different coordinators, what have you.
The students have blitzed and not gotten home. Now, whether
that's quick releases or just teams know what's coming and
combating that, I don't know why, but the students. BUTZ
(42:35):
had been extremely effective through my eyes through the first
five games of the season and has been pretty much
ineffective as certainly not nearly as effective as it had been.
And I don't know why that is.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I think there's a couple of things. And first off,
not on they blitzing a lot, but they bring six exactly,
They bring exactly blitzes. That's aggressive blitzes. Now, was the
duck play to the tight end?
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Was the six man?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's right? Yeah, it was one of a time that
almost got home.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Oh smidge right, but on the heartbeat.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Right, almost doesn't count.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I mean we all.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Remember the day or the time when that play resulted
in a Steeler pick and a nice return to maybe
the twenty one yard line and the place going crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
And not a fifty nine yard game for the other team.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
But I also think in order to live that way,
and it was really true against Cincinnati, you're gonna have
to play press man, not just off man. I mean,
like the ball's coming out super I mean there's real
themes in these two games. I mean, the balls out
and well under two point five, you're playing off coverage.
Quarterbacks are quick processors. Your blitzes are not getting home.
(43:44):
But that doesn't mean you should abandoned them. They're close,
you know, I mean maybe just a little one lucky too.
It's two games sample size. I still think there's good
pass rushers on this team. I don't have it in
front of me, but I will tell you when they're blitzing.
Has become a little predictable, and I think that, you know,
there's a lot of coaches around the league and quality
control guys that just break this stuff down that when
(44:06):
they get the third and long, they're blitzing six, you know,
like they I think people are getting a bead on
when the blitzes are coming. But I think more than anything,
it comes down to a slow and maybe overrated secondary
that you invested in with the thought of we have
all these good cover guys, now we can unleash the blitz. Well,
the back end, including the linebackers, is not holding up
(44:28):
their end of the bargain at all.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
They're in desperate need of a victory this week. The
Ravens are at the Dolphins on Thursday night and are
going to continue to try to put pressure on the Steelers.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I think that's going to be the end of that
tough for the road team on Thursday night.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Tread Ravens have a very favorable schedule.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Especially since Miami just got there with by the way
everybody loses them all nobody wins the ball.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
One of the things they pointed to with are the
Ravens dead yet at one in five, that they have
the twenty fourth hardest schedule and the Steelers have the
tenth hardest schedule going into this weekend's games, and that
four win Bears team represented one of the tougher games.
Tough game for the Bengal, for the for the Ravens.
By the way, the Bengals, you lost, meaning the Steelers,
(45:19):
they're still not out of it even with that loss
to the Jets. Now do I think they're a playoff team?
I mean they got too They got to do a
lot of things right. If you believe nine wins could
win the division, then yeah, the Bengals are probably still
in it at three and five, but if it's ten wins,
but it's going to be hard for them to get
to it's gonna be hard for them to play seven
and two football.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
And then string is the Broncos, the Chargers, the Texans,
the Patriots are looking like really strong wildcard team right
like you might have to own might be winning division
or boss.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And now the seven and one
Colts taking on the four and three Steelers. And you know,
again when you talk about your percent options of a
team and you think about the Colts, and you know,
the Colts were eight and nine last year. They beat
the Steelers last year. It wasn't like this was a
(46:10):
four win team. This isn't Demiko. Ryan's taking a team
that was terrible, getting CJ. Stroud and taken into the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
You think the Steelers have been looking for a quarterback
since Ben right, Yeah, these guys have gone through everybody
since Andrew Luck that's right, who retired like two weeks
before training camp. Like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, so they're eight and nine last year, and so
everyone's waiting for Okay, yeah, all right, Cinderella, wake up,
Glass Slipper doesn't fit anymore. Okay, And now it's like
wait a minute, man, they're seven and one and this
is a good football team coming to Akrocher Stadium and
it's not must win, but man, this is this is
(46:45):
a game that can that can you know, completely change
your fortunes and your outlook, I think for the Steelers.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Especially with the trip to LA to play the Chargers
after that on a Sunday night, who just ran it down?
Brian flow his throat for two hundred and seven rushing yards.
I'll tell you what, Robert's the NFL, and I can
make no more compelling argument than we just saw Cleveland,
(47:12):
and we just saw Green Bay and Cleveland beat green Bay.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Right, Yep, it has been a strange year. Now, having
said that, you look up now and it feels like
the world is maybe getting back on its axis here right.
The Bills just oh, if you thought Carolina was oh,
maybe they're no, they just got destroyed. You know, the
(47:39):
Lions look like the Lions again. The Bills looked like
the Bills again. The Chiefs looked like the Chiefs again. Eagles,
the Eagles looked like the Eagles again. So you know,
you go into this weekend Matt, thinking, you know, what
do we have here in the NFL? And now maybe
we're finding what we thought we were going to find
at the beginning of the season. And so this would
(48:00):
be a big win if you can knock off this
Colts team at home.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah. But if this was I always do this during
the week, if this was Colts Nation Radio, you'd be like,
we are the Chiefs now, we are the Eagles now.
It's right, and it took me a long time to
come around that. Yeah, this is cute story. I'm totally
in on this team. I think that's coach of the Year,
it's offensive player of the year. Their defense is good,
it's improved. They're a powerhouse and they can beat you
(48:25):
a lot of ways, but it all goes through Jonathan
Taylor and they had to be salivating watching that game.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Steelers lose by the final score of thirty five to
twenty five to the Packers, shopping their record to four
and three, still best in the AFC North, but again
some big matchups coming up beginning Sunday against the Colts
at Actrasure Stadium. For our producer, our steam producer, Justin Miller,
he is for Matt Williams said four Mic Presuda, I'm
rob king draft guy. But the point after presented by
(48:52):
your neighborhood Ford Storing, the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it
direct from the team at shop dot Steelers dot com,
on DVE and Steelers Audio Network
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