December 3, 2024 • 40 mins
Team insiders Ryan Mink and Garrett Downing sit down with NFL Films Senior Producer Tim Rumpff to talk about how AFC North 'Hard Knocks' will be made and what his team is hoping to spotlight, as well as break down the film from the Ravens' loss to the Eagles.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome into the Lounge podcast presented by DraftKings. I'm Gary
Downing joined by Ryan Mink. It's the bye week for
the Ravens and we're doing today's podcast a little bit differently.
Hard Knocks kicks off tonight on HBO and Max at
nine o'clock is where you can watch it. And this
is an AFC North look in season version of Hard Knocks.
(00:24):
So the first part of today, we're going to talk
with one of the key producers here who is here
in Baltimore, focusing on the Ravens element of Hard Knocks,
and then on the back end, we're also going to
take a look at the film from the Eagles game,
what went right, what did not go right, and dive
into that as well.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We are sitting down with NFL Film Senior producer Tim Rumph,
who is here on site as part of Hard Knocks
with the AFC North and he's going to be producing
the Ravens side of things. And this is a treat
for me, especially because Tim and I go way back,
actually to college. We were both at University of Maryland
(01:03):
and we co hosted a WNUC radio show called Strictly
Sports that thankfully there's no record off on the internet.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I try to find it. No record.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I think we might have to go back to my
mom's basement or something. Yeah, who would have thought eighteen
twenty years later we'd be here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yep, reunited.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Pretty cool and like we haven't even seen each other
since college. We bumped into each other. We ran into
each other here at the SOLDI the other last week
and we were like, oh my god, it was crazy
TERP reunion, so very cool, very cool.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I've just taken tim seat.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
You know, you guys started basically the podcast exit twenty
years ago.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
True, I'm keeping the sea war for you, so now
you're back.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
It's so true, you know, you know it's funny, how
quick little story. So we would have we would have
hit it big. We would have had a huge following
had it not been for my roommate at the time
who went on my computer when I was out of
the room and switched the link to our radio show
that I had in my instant messenger like away profile
or whatever, right, and it was like, listen to our
show here, click this link, and he switched the link
(02:04):
to like a secret link that we'll just say went
to not our sports show, and that just totally killed
our listener. Shit, we would have.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Even told me that we could have had double digit.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Listeners exactly, not just their mobs, but thrilled to have
you on.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
And it's like just kind of take us behind the.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Scenes of you know, what you're what you're up to,
and what this week looks like as you kind of
dig into the Ravens coverage here.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, so I'm really excited.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I mean, the show will debut Tuesday on December third
at nine.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Pm on HBO and Max.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
So right now, we're kind of just trying to gather
as many elements as possible as the Ravens prepare on
this short week and this really difficult week to be honest,
with Thanksgiving in there as well. You're coming off a
Monday night game, You're preparing for a really good Philadelphia team.
So it's for me a really interesting point to kind
of jump in and start follow a team because not
only is it a difficult week of preparation, but also
(03:03):
it's kind of looking towards that last home stretch as
you're really trying to position yourselves.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
For the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
You got a Pittsburgh game coming up in a couple
of weeks, where you could be fighting for the division.
So it's really shaping up to be a really interesting
story to tell over.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
These next couple of weeks. Yeah, so will you arrive
here with Hard Knocks.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You kind of come in and there's a number of people,
there's extra cameras, there's a crew, and you know, I
think that the external perspective is like Hard Knocks is
coming in, it's there are gonna be cameras everywhere. You're
like turning around the corners like they're a camera in
the hallway monitoring everything that we do. How do you
go about trying to establish yourselves, earn trust, and go
(03:42):
about kind of indoctrinating yourself into the culture of the
organization and be able to tell the stories that exists.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah, I think it comes on a couple of different levels.
I mean, the first, it just starts with NFL Films
in general and just the sixty years relationship that NFL
Films has had with the various clubs. I mean, the
show Hard Knocks, it started with the Ravens. Yeah, you know,
I mean nobody in this building probably was part of that.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
There might be a couple of people that are still holdover.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So maybe if yeah, we still have some ogs. Yeah yeah,
well not many though, but in this studio. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
But that's part of the exciting for me, is that
kind of when that happened with the Ravens the first time,
that was groundbreaking, no one kind of kind of done
that before, and being been embedded with the team for
an entire training camp and then it kind of from
there created you know, sports documentary television as we know
it from then on. And this kind of feels like
a similar new thing for me as well as far
(04:34):
as doing four teams at the same time, an entire
division where you know, no team can say, oh, we've
got these cameras. It's a disadvantage. You know, they're all
in the same boat. You know, they're they're all kind
of dealing with the same things. But back to your
point as far as building that trust, you know, surface level, yes,
it's it's the NFL Films relationship that haves the teams,
(04:55):
But then it also comes down to people and that
is going to just come in time. And we've had
meetings with the coaching staff and the front office for
over the last couple of weeks and various discussions as
far as how we can make this work for both sides.
And you know, what we let them know and what
they'll see as we begin our process here is that
we've kind of perfected the art of just being a
fly on the wall. We've done hard knocks for years
(05:20):
and years and years. So I think unless you really
knew we were out there a practice, you might not
even spot us kind of how we are, just because
I mean, players are so used to this point, you know,
in house production filming around the facility so often that
guys are used to it, coaches are used to it,
So I don't think it's going to be anything that
they're you know, they haven't seen before.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
How small are the cameras that go in the meeting
rooms are?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, you know what, they're like the size of a
security camera that you would say. But I mean that's
also part of the trust process as far as like
letting the coaches know and the players know that they're
not just running twenty four to seven like the security
camera and capturing everything and.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
You know, we're not.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
You know, news outlet that's kind of like, oh, out
to get you. Yeah, we're kind of just trying to
tell the story of the team and these individual players
and their common goal of trying to get to a
Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
So yeah, overall, we.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Have seventeen robotic cameras throughout the building. They're all in
position rooms, and I think that really allows the viewer
to see another side of the preparation that they're not
used to, and a lot of personality too, because there's
a lot of downtimes in there when they're not having meetings,
guys are hanging out and talking about the upcoming opponent
or you know, what they did on their weekend. So
(06:36):
I think that's what really makes this show special. Are
those stolen moments that you get, I mean, that's what
we call them, but like those real honest moments and
are just being themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know, you talk about how this is the first
time that Hard Knocks has ever done this take on
a whole division. Make Why did they do that? And
what kind of unique stories do you think you can
tell because of that?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah, I mean why. I think probably the best answer
is that just you're always trying to look for something
different and to try to always freshen up a show
and draw more interest. And why this division specifically is.
I mean you just look last season where you had
all four teams were over five hundred and three of
them making the playoffs. Right, there's no better division possible.
(07:22):
And that's just the recency you add in that than
just the history of the division as well and the
rivalries and how much these teams and cities don't even
like each.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Other, and that just can confirm.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, that just lends itself to some great storytelling.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, well, and plus they play each other a ton
down the stretch. I mean the Steelers I think like
before they played us, that was their first division game
against US. Yeah, so it's it's gonna be a lot
of head to head matchups. You'all had to love that
snow game.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I mean it's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I mean that was like movie magic right there.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
We had the weather machine that made that. That was
the hard that was the hard knocks magic could play.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Right there was it.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, that's where NFL films is at. It's i think
whenever snow is falling. Yeah, the shot of Jamis going
in for the touchdown that went somewhat viral. Yeah, that's
that's NFL's bread and butter.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I'm curious how when you're building out the storylines for
the season. How much of it is you get here
and you talk with people and you say, hey, we
want to tell a story about Lamar Jackson or Kyle
Hamilton or and we want to tell this story about
this player and this person versus let's see what we get,
Let's see those stolen moments that you mentioned, Let's see
how the season plays out. What is the balance of
(08:33):
those two approaches.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I think you use the best word right there as
just it is just a balance. Steve Staple used to
use this line all the time in regards of Hard Knocks,
which I loved, which was hard Knocks is trying to
assemble a plane mid flight, which is spot on because
you can kind of have a plan, but you really
once you're in the thick of things, you kind of
just kind of have to do it on the fly essentially.
(08:55):
So of course, going in, we know, hey, you've got
a team that has.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
A two time MVP.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, they have a guy that has been leading the
league and rushing for most of the season. Obviously, all
these dynamic players on defense, so you can kind.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Of have some ideas of who could be featured.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
But then all of a sudden, if coach Charball has
a mic on at practice and he pulls the guy
aside that isn't really on a radar, and there's an
amazing two minute conversation. Then all of a sudden, Hey,
you know, we need to do something with that guy
because that there's this great moment. What else can we
build on it? So it's it's certainly having a plan
by being able to adjust.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
That's very cool.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And I'm just curious kind of the mechanics behind everything.
How big is the crew out here? How long are
you filming? Like can you kind of take us behind
the nuts and bolted?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Yeah, So as far as how long we'll be filming,
we're starting today, the two days before Thanksgiving, and we
will continue until after the super Bowl, hopefully once the
Ravens win the super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Nice. Yeah, yeah, I like that plan.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So, yeah, that's the plan currently as far as a timeline,
crew size is actually going to vary, which is something
differ this year because you have the four teams, so
we kind of have to kind of divvy it up
between the two cities based on matchups or you know,
obviously next week with the Ravens having a bye week
and well you know that benefits other cities.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Can you have more crew?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Right, so this week as far as crew, will have
two cameras out at each practice, and then on bigger weeks,
like say the Pittsburgh week might be up to like
three or four cameras.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Nice, And what's the approval process?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Like, because I think we've all watched Hard Knocks and
sometimes you're like, wow, I can't believe that made it
in like you know, the John Morra moment, you know,
and like just the ripple effect from that moment of
being like all right, they're you know, the Saquon Barkley
stuff and they didn't want to lose Saquon. Now like
everybody's throwing that back in their face because awesome, right,
Like how does that work?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, So the team gets a chance to look at
it before it airs on Tuesday. So typically that's Monday,
depending on when the game. If there was a Monday
night game, that obviously can timelike kind of change. And
really that's mostly for petitive balance reasons. You just to
make sure because there's a lot of stuff and meetings
that we capture, a lot of play calls and stuff
that are on the field that I think our worst
(11:10):
case scenario is that we are embedded with the team
and then somehow something that we capture and goes on
air hurts them negatively, you know, when it comes to
a Sunday And that's why that is in place to
make sure that filter happens where coach Harball or Chad's
deal with pr can take a look at it and
(11:31):
make sure anything that's sensitive, they can kind of make
sure it doesn't get out there and they're not basically
punished for doing this.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
And are there sometimes like storylines or moments that might
not be at a competitive disadvantage but are like, oh,
that's that's some juicy that's the juicy stuff there that
like you're kind of like advocating like can we can
we keep this in? Like you're pushing them and they're
like like how does that balance work? And are you
are you the heavy on that? Like is that your
job or what?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, I mean that's probably between me or some many
back up films. I mean, I can't think of anything
that specifically comes to mind.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
There's usually some.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Give and take, I mean, certainly, but if there's anything sensitive,
we certainly talk about it whether it should be included
or not.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, So for you, and you look at this team
and you're kind of balancing out what this season is going.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
To look like. Do you know you alluded to it
that of.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Course you want to tell little mar Jackson and Derek
Henry stories like those. That's probably the low hanging fruit
in the obvious ones. But as much as you're open
or willing to share, like, what are some of the
storylines that you're hoping to tackle this year?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, I mean, the thing that's crazy is that with
four teams, unfortunately, like an irregular Hard Knocks in season,
you know, you the umbrella can be so much wider,
and you know, you can probably feature fifteen guys or
something in the span of eight episodes. I think this
year that will be less. Now granted, if some teams
(12:52):
in the division then maybe don't have his success down
the line, then all of a sudden, teams that are
in the playoff hunt still can get more airtime. So
that's kind of you know, as someone that's embedded with
the Ravens, that's kind of what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Exactly a lot of February airtime.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah, no, exactly, but I mean, honestly, like we were
talking about earlier, I think I'm interested in the stories
that kind of just happened naturally. Yeah, you know, someone
that on the team we don't anticipate being a key
contributor down the stretch, all of a sudden they become
the guy that, you know, elevates them to winning the division,
(13:32):
I think, or you know, all of a sudden, a
leader emergence out of nowhere, or you know, a rookie
that no one saw coming. I think those stories are
always interesting because you know, people know, like you were
saying the stories about lamar Or or Derek, it's kind
of what is the next layer and I'm hoping it
kind of comes naturally.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I thought that John Harbaugh was asked about this a
couple of weeks ago in terms of how he plans
to handle it and address it with the team and
the influx of attention that comes along with it, and
he made the point that, Yeah, we're just going to
be ourselves. We're just going to be authentic and we're
not going to put on a show. We're not going
to treat things differently. We're just going to be ourselves.
As you've been around different teams and going through this
process on hard knocks. How have you seen teams handle it? And,
(14:15):
like you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Hand, how does everybody approach it? Yeah, it can certainly
be a little different. I think that's always the attitude
going in. Hey just be yourselves and you know, but
it's something we're also really aware of. And even all
of our cameramen out there and producers and directors that
are in the field, you can tell when a player
or a coach is just like trying to be on camera.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
We just avoid him.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Honestly, we just alloyed him just because you know, it's
not gonna be authentic. Yeah, and that's not the story
we're trying to tell.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, you mentioned Lamar and obviously he's one of the
biggest global sports stars you know out there, and to
a degree, like you said, you don't want to you
want to cover other people, right, you want to give
them the shine. But also it's Lamar Jackson, right, And
we don't I know a ton about Lamar off the
field because he's a pretty private guy. How much are
(15:05):
you looking to try to kind of peel back those layers.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, whatever he'll give us. I mean,
obviously you want to respect someone's level of desire to
have privacy for sure, but we'll certainly ask him whatever
he's open to doing, and we would be open to
capturing whatever.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
He's willing to do. But I think the idea with
Lamar coming in is.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
That his football footage is just so dynamic, so everyone
kind of knows how much of an athletically gifted person
he is, So I'm curious just to see all his
preparation that he sees, see him in the quarterback room,
see him on the practice field. So I'm just excited
to see that part of him as well.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, same here.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It is interesting because that is something that he's talked
a lot about, especially last couple of years, in terms
of his approach and how he's elevated in certain ways
and him t Martin have a great relationship, so I'm
curious to see how that works behind the scenes and
the approach that he takes is it just seems like
based on everything that he said, that he's even taken
that to him other level and so it's I thought
it'll be a good element of the show for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Can you tell us real quick just a little bit
about yourself for listeners out there, How did you get
to this point. I know WMC was the huge, you know,
springboard that you needed, right, but like kind of what
were the steps and what were some of your bigger
projects that you worked on.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Sure, So coming out of University of Maryland, I got
hired by NFL Films and kind of worked my way
up there. Ended up what did you start doing there?
So I was hired as a production assistant there. I
think the first big project that I got to work
on was we have a show called NFL Film's Presents,
which a lot of people cut their teeth in editing
(16:38):
features on for that. So I cut a feature on
Hussein Abdullah, which was one of the only Muslim players
that practices Ramadan during the season, and he was fastenating
for the Chiefs at the time, So it was just
really fascinating to see someone that literally could not drink
water or eat food and he's out there sweating his
butt off and working his tale out and it was
(17:01):
pretty remarkable to see. From there, I got to work
on some football. We have a series called A Football Life,
So I produced and directed A Football Life on Mike Vick,
Joe Gibbs, and Dexter Manley. And then from there is
when I really got involved with Hard Knocks. I was
a field producer for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers version of
(17:22):
Hard Knocks Atlanta Falcons, and then I was the lead
director for Hard Knocks with the Cleveland Browns Raiders, and
then the COVID year when we did the Rams and
the Chargers at the same time, and then from there
the latest projects that I've been working on. I was
with Kirk Cousins as a director for Netflix's Quarterback series,
(17:45):
and then I was with Justin Jefferson for their Receivers
series last year.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Very cool.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
I've been very fortunate to work on a lot of
fun projects. Yeah, one I think is going to be
at the top of the list.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, that's very neat. Well you mentioned the fasting.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Hey, it gave me an idea that Derrick Henry's crazy
diet routine.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
There go, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
More fasting, there you go. So you're the man for
the job. Well, thank you for joining us, Tim, really
appreciate it. This fun to catch up.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Welcome back into the Lounge podcast. We are coming to
you from the Sea Geek Studio. We also want to
mention our partners with Draft Kings Sportsbook They are an
official sports betting partner of the Baltimore Ravens Draft Kings sportsbook.
The Crown Is Yours. Also Ravens Flock. Show off your
purple pride and join the Ravens for an exclusive pregame
tunnel experience. Be part of the Geha Tunnel Takeover sweepstakes
(18:29):
and you could be there to watch up close as
the Ravens get ready to take the field. Prizes include tickets, parking,
backyard bash passes, and more for the December twenty first
game against the Steelers that's at four thirty pm. Visit
www dot g EHA dot com slash g EHA Dash
Tunnel Dash Takeover That's where you can enter.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Ravens fans make this holiday season truly special with winning
Drive Napa Valley, the exclusive wine club of the Baltimore Ravens.
Our Premium m Napa Valley Winds are the perfect gift
for the Ravens fans in your life, celebrating grit, determination
and legendary moments. Each holiday gift includes Premium winds packaged
in a fire branded keepsake great with a personalized wooden
(19:13):
gift card.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
For every three holiday.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Gifts you purchased get one more at fifty percent off.
Visit winegiftshop dot com backslash Ravens to shop now and
make this a season to remember.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
All right, So, now let's take a look at the
film from the game against the Eagles. Not the most
you know, sometimes you're excited to look back at it.
This was not necessarily a game that you're fired up
to go back and look at, but we did go
through it.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
And I think let's start.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
The conversation in terms of the Ravens offense with the
offensive line, because I do from a big picture standpoint
when I look at this game, I think that the
Eagles won the line of scrimmage, particularly their defense.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
They have really good defensive front.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
They won that line of scrimmage, and I think that's
what caused the issues for the Ravens offense and didn't
allow them to really get gone.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
What did you see?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, I think a lot a lot traces back to
that for why the Ravens offense fizzled the way it did.
Just point blank, the Eagles have a very strong defensive
line and it overwhelmed the Ravens offensive line.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
You know, that's not to say I think just.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
A week ago, we were talking about how the Ravens
offensive line has become a strength of this team. I
don't think that this like completely erases all that, right,
like the it doesn't demolish the progress that the Ravens
have made on their offensive line. But they did not
have their best game. And and you know, the opponent
certainly plays a part in that. The Eagles are really good.
(20:37):
Jailing car Carter is a monster. I mean, the guy
played every snap but one. Yeah, what defensive tackle plays
one hundred percent of the snaps? Nobody, that's not heard of. Yeah,
and he was just dominating from start to finish. He
had eight pressures according to Pro Football Focus. And then
Milton Williams, another one of their big defensive tackles, he
(20:57):
had nine, nine pressures. Those two guys, by the way,
you look at PFF pass rush grades among interior defensive linemen,
they sit at number three and four, so they've been
good all year and they were good against the Ravens.
And then oh, by the way, they also have the
other Davis, Jordan Davis, the Haulkings defensive tackle that really
kind of bittled up the Ravens run game. And you know,
(21:17):
I mean the Ravens had some success running the ball,
they got a chunk player two, but for the most part,
Derreck Henry was run into a wall. And so the
biggest thing was really pass pro and that's been the Ravens'
strength this season for their offensive line has been their
pass protection. Lamar Jackson just was not comfortable back there
at all. And when you flip on the tape you
(21:37):
see why. I mean, they had a twenty five percent
pressure rate the Eagles did. They blitzed only thirteen percent
of the time. When they did blitz it jumped to sixties.
You know, two thirds of the time they got pressure
on Lamar Jackson when they blitzed. So he was under
durest and Jalen Carter, that guy's going to a Pro Bowl.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, he's going to go.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
To many Yeah, I mean he is the first pick.
Jordan Davis was also a first round picked. The Ravens
an't the a lot. The Eagles traded in front of
the Ravens back in that draft two years ago to
pick number thirteen to take Jordan Davis.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
So he just gobbles up.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Blockers and then Jalen Carter is more of this spell
splash play guy so they really won the battle.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It's crazy the.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Eagles were able to get Jayalen Carter, who people are
talking about was supposed to be like the maybe the
number one overall pick. Yeah, he fell in the draft
because of endurance, stamina concerns. Well, the guy's playing one
hundred percent of snaps.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
He also they was off the field, Yeah, definitely part
of accident. Ye.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Yeah, And so that was a big part of the
conversation with him.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
But there was like combine chatter about his staminas. Yeah, yeah,
guys play one hundredercent snaps.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean he's a great player, super talented player. But anyway,
so where they really won the battle with was inside
because a lot of times you talk about pressure and
pass rushers, and we talked about the guys on the edge,
and it's like t J. Watt and Miles Garrett and
Michael Parsons. They won up front, and it was in
the middle of the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And that's the problem them really when for Lamar Jackson
when he can't step up.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That's also those running lanes aren't there.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I thought they also didn't like over commit to the
rush and create those lanes for Lamar Jackson's Lamar Jackson
to escape out of which we'll talk more about.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But I thought it was.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
A discipline pass rush approach and smothering, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And so it was a big problem.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
When l Maar Jackson has that much right up the middle,
it's tough.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And whenever the offensive line doesn't have a really good game,
it circles back to the narrative before the season, which
is replacing all these starters. It's like, we're through thirteen
games and then we still circle back to what we
were talking about back in July and August, with what's
this offensive line going to be?
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Who the starters are going to be. It's all these new.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Starters reservices exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And John Harbaugh was asked an element of that this week,
basically saying it's my week, you're looking at everything. Do
you plan to stick with this offensive line? And he said, yes,
the plan is to stick with this offensive line.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
We're quote pretty well set there.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I'm not down on anybody on the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And he said, yeah, we could have basically blocked better,
but quote, I don't think it merits any drastic changes
right now.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So I think the Raves are going to roll with
those five guys that they're going to continue to That's
my expectation that it's going to be the same five
starting offensive lineman and the Ravens are not making a
change at this point.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I think if they were, I agree, I think
that they certainly could keep rolling with those five. I
think that there's a chance that we could see Andrew
Voorhees back in the lineup. You know, Pat McCarey has
I think played well and admirably considering he's been a
full time starter pretty much the whole season. He was
rotating snaps a little bit with Roger Rosey gartin early on.
(24:46):
But you know, Pat's been a guy who we've talked
about previously just physically it's hard for him to play
every single snap, and he's done that, and like I
think the guy deserves a lot of credit for being
a tough player, but like you know, for he's won
that job out of training camp. He was the guy,
and then he went down with an injury and McKay
(25:06):
stepped in and this combination is pretty much has worked
really well. What's a drastic change. I don't think they're
gonna be replacing both their starting guards. We talked to
George Warhop today and he was very high on.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Defense, on the Ravens offensive line coach.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Correct the Ravens offensive line coach, and he was very
high on Daniel foul Le, talking about how he thinks
he's playing really well, that's a really bright future. I
don't I think Daniel Foulo la is going to remain
the starting right guard. I do wonder if there's a
possibility of a change left guard.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
They could keep rolling with Pat and or or it
wouldn't shock me afore he's came in and became the star.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, I would be surprised if they've made a change.
I just think that based on what John Harble said it.
And again we had this whole conversation on the film
review last week of hey, is the offensive line of
strength of this team? Not just getting the job done adequately,
but now they're a strength of the team. And so
you go up against the best defense and football with
one of the best defensive fronts of football, and you
have a tough game, and now you're shaking up the
(26:04):
offensive line.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
I would be surprised if that's the case.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, No, I think that's all fair. Yeah, I think
that's all fair. I think that's just what's drastic. Yeah,
is one starter drastic?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Right? Two start? Does that turn in the drastic? I
don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Fair fair, You gotta look through the details of that.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So that another talking point coming out of this game
was whether Lamar Jackson should have taken off and run more.
And you made headlines after the game. He said he
talked to his mom right after the game. She cussed
him out for saying, you had opportunities to run, you
should have taken him and why.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Didn't you take some of those opportunities?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
And Lamar felt that way, you know, immediately after the game,
after talking with his mom. So, in going back and
looking at the tape, what was your take on the
opportunities there that Lamar had or didn't have to take
off and run?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I mean sure, I think there were a few instances
where okay, like he could.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Have run there. There were no there. I did not.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
See any instances on the film where there was a
parting of the red sea. It was like, oh my gosh,
hands on the head, like, why did he not run there? Right?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
There were maybe three or four where you're like all.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Right, Like, yeah, he could have run there, he would
have probably had to like juke a guy or make
a guy miss or something like that, which he is
certainly capable of doing. He's done it many times exactly.
But like, it wasn't like there was like no eyes
on him. The Eagles, I thought, almost always when I looked,
even at those instances, had a linebacker safety that had
(27:32):
eyes on Lamar Jackson and was near like the first
down marker that he would have needed.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
To get to, right, So, like, that's tough.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So I didn't really see anything glaring in that regard.
And I'll say that more often than not. You know,
Lamar this year has not scrambled very much. Yeah, he's
been escaping the pocket with the intention of throwing, and
more often than not, that's been the right decision, and
he's made people pay it. And in this game when
(28:00):
he escaped and bought time, bought time and the protection
was really good, and you hit Mark Andrews for that
touchdown right that was outside the pocket. And so like
I think, generally speaking, you're always going to have times
every single game probably where he looks back and says, ah,
I could have done it. I could have run there,
I could have done this, I could have done that differently.
That's gonna be every single game, So I didn't think
(28:24):
that this was an outlier from that.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, it's like it's always tough because I think he's
been so good this year at extending plays and looking
downfield to throw the ball, and he's been awesome at that.
Like that market play, he's directing traffic and throws it,
throws a dot where only Mark could get it, And
part of that is just extending the play and then
not running. He could have taken off from run there,
but you wait to see a route develop, you make
(28:46):
a connection with your receiver you're directing and where to go,
and then also you hit the big play right exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
So I'd rather that. Like I think that he's made that.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Change from going to scrambling quicker to making plays with
his arm.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I think it's been a positive.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Uh huh, and I would like.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
To see him continue to do that moving forward. I
actually there was actually one play where Lamar did end
up running early in the game where I thought he
could have thrown it today to say flowers late he
kind of say broke open and Lamar didn't throw it
and he just kind of kept it and we could
have gotten I don't think it was gonna be a
big play, but it would be more yards if had
he thrown it. And the two of them after the
play kind of connected and Lamar almost gave him a
(29:24):
slap on the helmet, like, yeah, I saw you late,
but yeah I could have hit you. But whatever, you know,
he decided to run, so like it goes both ways.
I think Lamar has done a really awesome job of
that so far this season, and I don't want him
to feel like I have to do it all, like
I gotta throw on the cape. I'm just when things
break down, it's all on me to make something happen
with my legs. I like that he's broken out and
(29:46):
been like, all right, let me see one of my
guys shakes.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Free and make a play that way.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I think that outside of just this game, I think
that as we get into these final four regular season
games and then into the playoffs, I do think him
taking off and running could become a larger piece of
the offense here.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I think that that that is I.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Think, especially as it gets colder and all that, Like
when you need, when you need seven yards and the
offense is kind of sluggish and you need just let's
extend the drive here and get a first.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I mean, I maybe the cold runs, but I also
think this on the scrambles, I think there could be
a situations where he takes off and if he sees
a quick running line, let me just go get a
quick That's.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Not really that's obviously not plans, right, that's not part
of the play. You're just saying you think Lamar will
make that decision more often than the stretch.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I think that this final stretch here the rest
of the season, I think that when you tally up
his runs compared to the average of the course of
this whole season, I think we're probably going to see
him run more per game. Whether that's called which could
be a component of it, or him just taking off.
I think he could do more of that because because
his mom said so, yeah, mama knows bests. I mean,
(30:57):
if we know one thing for sure is that Lamar
actually listens to his mom.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yeah, and that's that's.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Been working out pretty well.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
But I just think, like, I mean, that's a funny
element of this story, right, But like I think that
it just at a overall, I think that that the
Ravens are gonna do and Lamar is gonna do whatever
he needs to to win these games. And I agree
with you, it's not all on him, and I don't
want him to feel like I don't think the Ravens
want him to feel all right, man, you just got
to go make every single play and it's all on the.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Cape, right, You don't need to necessarily need to throw
on that cape.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
But I do think that sometimes him getting a quick
seven yards is like that is unstoppable at times.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
And so if you can do that, then then do it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And what's funny? You know you say quick seven yards?
Lamar's kind of the way he's talked about scrambling now
is like I scrambled to score. Yeah, I don't scramble
to get seven yards anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I don't do that anymore, right, right, And so that would.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
That I agree with you because I think that his
mindset has changed. I think that like if he had
if he feels like here's a big play opportunity and
I can scramble and make that happen, he's gonna take that.
But I don't know if that he's gonna just suddenly
start being like, now I'm gonna I'm just gonna take
the seven yards.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I think that like if he could wrap off rack
off some of those forty yard runs like he had
on the.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Last drive of the game.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Second to I thought he was gonna score on that.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
He almost did.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
We all first, I was like, okay, get down, get down,
like don't want her to get hit, And then.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Are you gonna score?
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Like this is crazy?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And so that that was ridiculous play. Tem Martin actually
talked about that play a little bit this this week
today and he had some interesting perspective in just talking
about that that showed Lamar's mentality and no quit, never
say die attitude.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, the fire burn is burning inside Lamar Jackson. I
mean it always has. He's an extremely competitive guy. But
I think that we saw a taste of it after
after the game. We both said we liked his postgame
press cards, like you saw how agitated he was and
frustrated by that loss, and I and that dude can't
(33:06):
wait to get back on the field, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Yeah. That they basically said, like he.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Feel bad for the Giants, already.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Lamar even said after the game, like, I wish we
didn't have this buy right now.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
I would love.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
To know what now, I won't take the buy this this.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Year if they if they could have uh you know
it brought everybody back into the stadium and just play
the game at eight o'clock reset for a kickoff.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Lamar like, yes, let's do that right now.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
So just I look, the defensive line would be like no,
Lamar this year is carried eight and a half times
a game.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
That's his average. I think that as we look at
the rest of the way, I think that that number
is going to be higher than that.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
That's my question. Is that scheme they're scrambled.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
I think that it could be a little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
But I think that, like when you're just looking at
the total, I think that he's going to run more
than that the rest of the way.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I do think that there could be more called runs,
could there be more scrambles, Sure, But I don't think
it's gonna be anything dressed.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I don't think. I just don't think that. Like I
think his mindset has changed.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
He is looking to make big plays with his arm
when he's scrambling and don't I don't think that's really
gonna change.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, I think I think when I say it's gonna
be more, I'm thinking more in like the ten to
twelve range. I'm not talking twenty to twenty fives. A
pretty good.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Backfield already, So moving on, I thought another thing that
stuck stuck out to me on the film was just
how good this Eagles rushing attack is. And it reminds
you so much of the Ravens, you know, The Ravens
defense kind of got a taste of what it's like
to go against the Ravens offense, you know, and what
other teams face.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
And obviously the duo.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
That Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry are, Jalen Hurts and
Saquon Barkley are pretty darn good duo too, and some
of their RPO stuff, like the pooling linemen, it just
looks a lot like what the Ravens do.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
And the Eagles just hit some of that, you know.
And so I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
That mostly the Ravens did a pretty good job of
bottling them up and not letting Saquon get loose.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
There were a few scram or a few.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Runs by Jalen Hurts, just designed, you know, eight nine
eleven yard runs that were that hurt. And then of
course the twenty five yard touchdown by Saquon that kind
of was the final dagger.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah, I think that it is.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
When I watched their offense, there's a lot of similar
principles that exist, and there's a reason why these are
the top two running teams in the league. Part of
it is personnel. They have two great running backs, but
part of it is a scheme and the quarterback and
the quarterback. Great running backs, great great quarterbacks, and great scheme.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
So it's just really hard to stop.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
And it also it felt like where the Ravens have
so many times over the course of this season with
Derrick Henry, you wear teams down and then he pops
the big run in the fourth quarter. I don't think
the Ravens defense got worn down, but what you did
see happened in that fourth quarter was Saquon Barkley came
up with a big play, they got the twenty five
yard game, and that kind of sealed the game.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And my last thing, speaking of that twenty five yard run,
is you go back and watch the Eagles three touchdowns
in this game and there were pretty big no calls
on all three of them. Obviously, Turning Roman pointed out
the tush push touchdown, the false start that was pretty
obvious when you go back and look at that, that
didn't get called. And I think the Eagles, like the
(36:11):
tushbush has been so successful that it's almost become a
thing where it's like assumed that it's going to be successful,
and they just, yeah, I think that's playing into the success.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
At this point, I was up in the press box
just like, there's no way that got in. I thought they.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I mean, I couldn't tell the fumble honestly from the
press box, but I knew that they stuffed it or
they stuffed it.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
Yeah, well he did ultimately get in.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
He did.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
He did ultimately get in out right, Like, I couldn't
see that around the pile. And that's part of the
problem with the That's why they can't see the false
starts too.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
There's just this mayhem. So it's just a you just
can't see anything in there. All things go, you know,
and so.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And then also on the Saquon Barkley twenty five year
touchdown run, they're left tackle during my lot, I got
a running start, on that he started early. There's no
IF's answer butts about it. Now, that was the key
block on that play.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
He pulled all the way across the line and picked
off Roquan Smith. He got a running start. Would Roquan
have made that play had he been a hair a
tick slower to make that pool block? Yeah, maybe, I
don't know. Saquan kind of got through a small crease there.
It was tight.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Uh. And so that was another one that was just missed.
And then and then on their first there it was
a fake run. It was a fake handoff throw out
into the flats to the tight end. Their offensive linemen
are blocking five yards down the field before that throw.
I mean, we Pat McCarey sitting here getting dinged for
illegal man downfield like crazy.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Yeah, a week ago it was.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
It was definitely there on that one.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Not to mention, aj Brown was blocking ten yards down
the field before that balls caught. So you know, those
pick plays, none of them are like so egregious to
where it's like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, But the fact of the matter is they all happened.
If we're calling it to the letter law, those are
all three of those touchdowns are penalized. Do the Ravens
win the game? I don't know that's a stretch. But
they were big calls. They're big non calls.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Yeah, bign calls. Would have been nice for their big calls.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Yeah, would have been nice.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
Yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
So lastly, before we conclude here, we didn't. I will
humbly read a couple of emails here, Oh, because we
did the Thanksgiving drafts last week and people have spoken
and it was not it was not a great showing
from me. Here's an email. Hey guys, Gary Kluger here
from California. Garrett, I gotta say, make totally smoked you
(38:38):
in Thanksgiving draft. If one of makes choices I had
been stick a fork in my eye, he still would
have smoked. Sorry, dude, be better next year. Another email
I would.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Never punish is that you got to stick a fork
in your eye next year.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I would never even think of emailing, but Garrett's picks
offended me as a fantasy drafter who would draft to
rake leaves, cook the turkey, and watch the Macy's Day parade?
Are you trying to punish your self? I appreciate the
podcast and the takes on the Ravens. McGear should not
be allowed to draft again without adult supervision.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Shaking my head.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So that's the kind of the theme. Those are two
of them. And what I'll say, I'll take the l
on the draft. But what I'll really say here is
I don't think I have a drafting problem. I think
I have a rock paper scissors problem because I found
myself I haven't won rock paper scissors on these drafts
in like years, and we need to do a better
job of stacking the draft so that if you don't
(39:30):
win rock paper scissors, then you're gonna just lose the draft.
Because by by losing rock paper scissors, I was gonna
inevitably end up without the ability to eat and having
to talk politics. It was like you were just getting
saddled with these bad options. So again, it's a rock
paper scissors problem, not a drafting problem.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
So I'm gonna get no, it was also a drafting
because you took the Macy's Day parade over napped. That
was a miss, and then he took Raking Leaves over
the another miss. So it's both you got I mean,
when you get smoked as bad as you got beat
in this it's a multi problem problem. When you break
down the tape. Okay, there's no easy solutions to your
(40:11):
problem in this strap. There are many problems.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
We're going back.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
It's the bye week. I'm going back to the drawing board,
and we're looking at everything. We're looking at everything, so
as always, you can email us the blounge or even
though NFL's net.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
And it's the bye week, so this is a good
chance for everybody to take stock of where they stand.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
And I'm gonna be working hard at that over of course,
in these next few days. Thanks for listening.
Welcome into the Lounge podcast presented by DraftKings. I'm Gary
Downing joined by Ryan Mink. It's the bye week for
the Ravens and we're doing today's podcast a little bit differently.
Hard Knocks kicks off tonight on HBO and Max at
nine o'clock is where you can watch it. And this
is an AFC North look in season version of Hard Knocks.
(00:24):
So the first part of today, we're going to talk
with one of the key producers here who is here
in Baltimore, focusing on the Ravens element of Hard Knocks,
and then on the back end, we're also going to
take a look at the film from the Eagles game,
what went right, what did not go right, and dive
into that as well.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We are sitting down with NFL Film Senior producer Tim Rumph,
who is here on site as part of Hard Knocks
with the AFC North and he's going to be producing
the Ravens side of things. And this is a treat
for me, especially because Tim and I go way back,
actually to college. We were both at University of Maryland
(01:03):
and we co hosted a WNUC radio show called Strictly
Sports that thankfully there's no record off on the internet.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I try to find it. No record.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I think we might have to go back to my
mom's basement or something. Yeah, who would have thought eighteen
twenty years later we'd be here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yep, reunited.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Pretty cool and like we haven't even seen each other
since college. We bumped into each other. We ran into
each other here at the SOLDI the other last week
and we were like, oh my god, it was crazy
TERP reunion, so very cool, very cool.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I've just taken tim seat.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
You know, you guys started basically the podcast exit twenty
years ago.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
True, I'm keeping the sea war for you, so now
you're back.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
It's so true, you know, you know it's funny, how
quick little story. So we would have we would have
hit it big. We would have had a huge following
had it not been for my roommate at the time
who went on my computer when I was out of
the room and switched the link to our radio show
that I had in my instant messenger like away profile
or whatever, right, and it was like, listen to our
show here, click this link, and he switched the link
(02:04):
to like a secret link that we'll just say went
to not our sports show, and that just totally killed
our listener. Shit, we would have.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Even told me that we could have had double digit.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Listeners exactly, not just their mobs, but thrilled to have
you on.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
And it's like just kind of take us behind the.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Scenes of you know, what you're what you're up to,
and what this week looks like as you kind of
dig into the Ravens coverage here.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, so I'm really excited.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I mean, the show will debut Tuesday on December third
at nine.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Pm on HBO and Max.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
So right now, we're kind of just trying to gather
as many elements as possible as the Ravens prepare on
this short week and this really difficult week to be honest,
with Thanksgiving in there as well. You're coming off a
Monday night game, You're preparing for a really good Philadelphia team.
So it's for me a really interesting point to kind
of jump in and start follow a team because not
only is it a difficult week of preparation, but also
(03:03):
it's kind of looking towards that last home stretch as
you're really trying to position yourselves.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
For the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
You got a Pittsburgh game coming up in a couple
of weeks, where you could be fighting for the division.
So it's really shaping up to be a really interesting
story to tell over.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
These next couple of weeks. Yeah, so will you arrive
here with Hard Knocks.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You kind of come in and there's a number of people,
there's extra cameras, there's a crew, and you know, I
think that the external perspective is like Hard Knocks is
coming in, it's there are gonna be cameras everywhere. You're
like turning around the corners like they're a camera in
the hallway monitoring everything that we do. How do you
go about trying to establish yourselves, earn trust, and go
(03:42):
about kind of indoctrinating yourself into the culture of the
organization and be able to tell the stories that exists.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah, I think it comes on a couple of different levels.
I mean, the first, it just starts with NFL Films
in general and just the sixty years relationship that NFL
Films has had with the various clubs. I mean, the
show Hard Knocks, it started with the Ravens. Yeah, you know,
I mean nobody in this building probably was part of that.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
There might be a couple of people that are still holdover.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So maybe if yeah, we still have some ogs. Yeah yeah,
well not many though, but in this studio. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
But that's part of the exciting for me, is that
kind of when that happened with the Ravens the first time,
that was groundbreaking, no one kind of kind of done
that before, and being been embedded with the team for
an entire training camp and then it kind of from
there created you know, sports documentary television as we know
it from then on. And this kind of feels like
a similar new thing for me as well as far
(04:34):
as doing four teams at the same time, an entire
division where you know, no team can say, oh, we've
got these cameras. It's a disadvantage. You know, they're all
in the same boat. You know, they're they're all kind
of dealing with the same things. But back to your
point as far as building that trust, you know, surface level, yes,
it's it's the NFL Films relationship that haves the teams,
(04:55):
But then it also comes down to people and that
is going to just come in time. And we've had
meetings with the coaching staff and the front office for
over the last couple of weeks and various discussions as
far as how we can make this work for both sides.
And you know, what we let them know and what
they'll see as we begin our process here is that
we've kind of perfected the art of just being a
fly on the wall. We've done hard knocks for years
(05:20):
and years and years. So I think unless you really
knew we were out there a practice, you might not
even spot us kind of how we are, just because
I mean, players are so used to this point, you know,
in house production filming around the facility so often that
guys are used to it, coaches are used to it,
So I don't think it's going to be anything that
they're you know, they haven't seen before.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
How small are the cameras that go in the meeting
rooms are?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, you know what, they're like the size of a
security camera that you would say. But I mean that's
also part of the trust process as far as like
letting the coaches know and the players know that they're
not just running twenty four to seven like the security
camera and capturing everything and.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
You know, we're not.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
You know, news outlet that's kind of like, oh, out
to get you. Yeah, we're kind of just trying to
tell the story of the team and these individual players
and their common goal of trying to get to a
Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
So yeah, overall, we.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Have seventeen robotic cameras throughout the building. They're all in
position rooms, and I think that really allows the viewer
to see another side of the preparation that they're not
used to, and a lot of personality too, because there's
a lot of downtimes in there when they're not having meetings,
guys are hanging out and talking about the upcoming opponent
or you know, what they did on their weekend. So
(06:36):
I think that's what really makes this show special. Are
those stolen moments that you get, I mean, that's what
we call them, but like those real honest moments and
are just being themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know, you talk about how this is the first
time that Hard Knocks has ever done this take on
a whole division. Make Why did they do that? And
what kind of unique stories do you think you can
tell because of that?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah, I mean why. I think probably the best answer
is that just you're always trying to look for something
different and to try to always freshen up a show
and draw more interest. And why this division specifically is.
I mean you just look last season where you had
all four teams were over five hundred and three of
them making the playoffs. Right, there's no better division possible.
(07:22):
And that's just the recency you add in that than
just the history of the division as well and the
rivalries and how much these teams and cities don't even
like each.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Other, and that just can confirm.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, that just lends itself to some great storytelling.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, well, and plus they play each other a ton
down the stretch. I mean the Steelers I think like
before they played us, that was their first division game
against US. Yeah, so it's it's gonna be a lot
of head to head matchups. You'all had to love that
snow game.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I mean it's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I mean that was like movie magic right there.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
We had the weather machine that made that. That was
the hard that was the hard knocks magic could play.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Right there was it.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, that's where NFL films is at. It's i think
whenever snow is falling. Yeah, the shot of Jamis going
in for the touchdown that went somewhat viral. Yeah, that's
that's NFL's bread and butter.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I'm curious how when you're building out the storylines for
the season. How much of it is you get here
and you talk with people and you say, hey, we
want to tell a story about Lamar Jackson or Kyle
Hamilton or and we want to tell this story about
this player and this person versus let's see what we get,
Let's see those stolen moments that you mentioned, Let's see
how the season plays out. What is the balance of
(08:33):
those two approaches.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I think you use the best word right there as
just it is just a balance. Steve Staple used to
use this line all the time in regards of Hard Knocks,
which I loved, which was hard Knocks is trying to
assemble a plane mid flight, which is spot on because
you can kind of have a plan, but you really
once you're in the thick of things, you kind of
just kind of have to do it on the fly essentially.
(08:55):
So of course, going in, we know, hey, you've got
a team that has.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
A two time MVP.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, they have a guy that has been leading the
league and rushing for most of the season. Obviously, all
these dynamic players on defense, so you can kind.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Of have some ideas of who could be featured.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
But then all of a sudden, if coach Charball has
a mic on at practice and he pulls the guy
aside that isn't really on a radar, and there's an
amazing two minute conversation. Then all of a sudden, Hey,
you know, we need to do something with that guy
because that there's this great moment. What else can we
build on it? So it's it's certainly having a plan
by being able to adjust.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
That's very cool.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And I'm just curious kind of the mechanics behind everything.
How big is the crew out here? How long are
you filming? Like can you kind of take us behind
the nuts and bolted?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Yeah, So as far as how long we'll be filming,
we're starting today, the two days before Thanksgiving, and we
will continue until after the super Bowl, hopefully once the
Ravens win the super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Nice. Yeah, yeah, I like that plan.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So, yeah, that's the plan currently as far as a timeline,
crew size is actually going to vary, which is something
differ this year because you have the four teams, so
we kind of have to kind of divvy it up
between the two cities based on matchups or you know,
obviously next week with the Ravens having a bye week
and well you know that benefits other cities.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
Can you have more crew?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Right, so this week as far as crew, will have
two cameras out at each practice, and then on bigger weeks,
like say the Pittsburgh week might be up to like
three or four cameras.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Nice, And what's the approval process?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Like, because I think we've all watched Hard Knocks and
sometimes you're like, wow, I can't believe that made it
in like you know, the John Morra moment, you know,
and like just the ripple effect from that moment of
being like all right, they're you know, the Saquon Barkley
stuff and they didn't want to lose Saquon. Now like
everybody's throwing that back in their face because awesome, right,
Like how does that work?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, So the team gets a chance to look at
it before it airs on Tuesday. So typically that's Monday,
depending on when the game. If there was a Monday
night game, that obviously can timelike kind of change. And
really that's mostly for petitive balance reasons. You just to
make sure because there's a lot of stuff and meetings
that we capture, a lot of play calls and stuff
that are on the field that I think our worst
(11:10):
case scenario is that we are embedded with the team
and then somehow something that we capture and goes on
air hurts them negatively, you know, when it comes to
a Sunday And that's why that is in place to
make sure that filter happens where coach Harball or Chad's
deal with pr can take a look at it and
(11:31):
make sure anything that's sensitive, they can kind of make
sure it doesn't get out there and they're not basically
punished for doing this.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
And are there sometimes like storylines or moments that might
not be at a competitive disadvantage but are like, oh,
that's that's some juicy that's the juicy stuff there that
like you're kind of like advocating like can we can
we keep this in? Like you're pushing them and they're
like like how does that balance work? And are you
are you the heavy on that? Like is that your
job or what?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, I mean that's probably between me or some many
back up films. I mean, I can't think of anything
that specifically comes to mind.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
There's usually some.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Give and take, I mean, certainly, but if there's anything sensitive,
we certainly talk about it whether it should be included
or not.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, So for you, and you look at this team
and you're kind of balancing out what this season is going.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
To look like. Do you know you alluded to it
that of.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Course you want to tell little mar Jackson and Derek
Henry stories like those. That's probably the low hanging fruit
in the obvious ones. But as much as you're open
or willing to share, like, what are some of the
storylines that you're hoping to tackle this year?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, I mean, the thing that's crazy is that with
four teams, unfortunately, like an irregular Hard Knocks in season,
you know, you the umbrella can be so much wider,
and you know, you can probably feature fifteen guys or
something in the span of eight episodes. I think this
year that will be less. Now granted, if some teams
(12:52):
in the division then maybe don't have his success down
the line, then all of a sudden, teams that are
in the playoff hunt still can get more airtime. So
that's kind of you know, as someone that's embedded with
the Ravens, that's kind of what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Exactly a lot of February airtime.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah, no, exactly, but I mean, honestly, like we were
talking about earlier, I think I'm interested in the stories
that kind of just happened naturally. Yeah, you know, someone
that on the team we don't anticipate being a key
contributor down the stretch, all of a sudden they become
the guy that, you know, elevates them to winning the division,
(13:32):
I think, or you know, all of a sudden, a
leader emergence out of nowhere, or you know, a rookie
that no one saw coming. I think those stories are
always interesting because you know, people know, like you were
saying the stories about lamar Or or Derek, it's kind
of what is the next layer and I'm hoping it
kind of comes naturally.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I thought that John Harbaugh was asked about this a
couple of weeks ago in terms of how he plans
to handle it and address it with the team and
the influx of attention that comes along with it, and
he made the point that, Yeah, we're just going to
be ourselves. We're just going to be authentic and we're
not going to put on a show. We're not going
to treat things differently. We're just going to be ourselves.
As you've been around different teams and going through this
process on hard knocks. How have you seen teams handle it? And,
(14:15):
like you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Hand, how does everybody approach it? Yeah, it can certainly
be a little different. I think that's always the attitude
going in. Hey just be yourselves and you know, but
it's something we're also really aware of. And even all
of our cameramen out there and producers and directors that
are in the field, you can tell when a player
or a coach is just like trying to be on camera.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
We just avoid him.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Honestly, we just alloyed him just because you know, it's
not gonna be authentic. Yeah, and that's not the story
we're trying to tell.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, you mentioned Lamar and obviously he's one of the
biggest global sports stars you know out there, and to
a degree, like you said, you don't want to you
want to cover other people, right, you want to give
them the shine. But also it's Lamar Jackson, right, And
we don't I know a ton about Lamar off the
field because he's a pretty private guy. How much are
(15:05):
you looking to try to kind of peel back those layers.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean absolutely, whatever he'll give us. I mean,
obviously you want to respect someone's level of desire to
have privacy for sure, but we'll certainly ask him whatever
he's open to doing, and we would be open to
capturing whatever.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
He's willing to do. But I think the idea with
Lamar coming in is.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
That his football footage is just so dynamic, so everyone
kind of knows how much of an athletically gifted person
he is, So I'm curious just to see all his
preparation that he sees, see him in the quarterback room,
see him on the practice field. So I'm just excited
to see that part of him as well.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, same here.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
It is interesting because that is something that he's talked
a lot about, especially last couple of years, in terms
of his approach and how he's elevated in certain ways
and him t Martin have a great relationship, so I'm
curious to see how that works behind the scenes and
the approach that he takes is it just seems like
based on everything that he said, that he's even taken
that to him other level and so it's I thought
it'll be a good element of the show for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Can you tell us real quick just a little bit
about yourself for listeners out there, How did you get
to this point. I know WMC was the huge, you know,
springboard that you needed, right, but like kind of what
were the steps and what were some of your bigger
projects that you worked on.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Sure, So coming out of University of Maryland, I got
hired by NFL Films and kind of worked my way
up there. Ended up what did you start doing there?
So I was hired as a production assistant there. I
think the first big project that I got to work
on was we have a show called NFL Film's Presents,
which a lot of people cut their teeth in editing
(16:38):
features on for that. So I cut a feature on
Hussein Abdullah, which was one of the only Muslim players
that practices Ramadan during the season, and he was fastenating
for the Chiefs at the time, So it was just
really fascinating to see someone that literally could not drink
water or eat food and he's out there sweating his
butt off and working his tale out and it was
(17:01):
pretty remarkable to see. From there, I got to work
on some football. We have a series called A Football Life,
So I produced and directed A Football Life on Mike Vick,
Joe Gibbs, and Dexter Manley. And then from there is
when I really got involved with Hard Knocks. I was
a field producer for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers version of
(17:22):
Hard Knocks Atlanta Falcons, and then I was the lead
director for Hard Knocks with the Cleveland Browns Raiders, and
then the COVID year when we did the Rams and
the Chargers at the same time, and then from there
the latest projects that I've been working on. I was
with Kirk Cousins as a director for Netflix's Quarterback series,
(17:45):
and then I was with Justin Jefferson for their Receivers
series last year.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Very cool.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
I've been very fortunate to work on a lot of
fun projects. Yeah, one I think is going to be
at the top of the list.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, that's very neat. Well you mentioned the fasting.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Hey, it gave me an idea that Derrick Henry's crazy
diet routine.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
There go, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
More fasting, there you go. So you're the man for
the job. Well, thank you for joining us, Tim, really
appreciate it. This fun to catch up.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Welcome back into the Lounge podcast. We are coming to
you from the Sea Geek Studio. We also want to
mention our partners with Draft Kings Sportsbook They are an
official sports betting partner of the Baltimore Ravens Draft Kings sportsbook.
The Crown Is Yours. Also Ravens Flock. Show off your
purple pride and join the Ravens for an exclusive pregame
tunnel experience. Be part of the Geha Tunnel Takeover sweepstakes
(18:29):
and you could be there to watch up close as
the Ravens get ready to take the field. Prizes include tickets, parking,
backyard bash passes, and more for the December twenty first
game against the Steelers that's at four thirty pm. Visit
www dot g EHA dot com slash g EHA Dash
Tunnel Dash Takeover That's where you can enter.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Ravens fans make this holiday season truly special with winning
Drive Napa Valley, the exclusive wine club of the Baltimore Ravens.
Our Premium m Napa Valley Winds are the perfect gift
for the Ravens fans in your life, celebrating grit, determination
and legendary moments. Each holiday gift includes Premium winds packaged
in a fire branded keepsake great with a personalized wooden
(19:13):
gift card.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
For every three holiday.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Gifts you purchased get one more at fifty percent off.
Visit winegiftshop dot com backslash Ravens to shop now and
make this a season to remember.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
All right, So, now let's take a look at the
film from the game against the Eagles. Not the most
you know, sometimes you're excited to look back at it.
This was not necessarily a game that you're fired up
to go back and look at, but we did go
through it.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
And I think let's start.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
The conversation in terms of the Ravens offense with the
offensive line, because I do from a big picture standpoint
when I look at this game, I think that the
Eagles won the line of scrimmage, particularly their defense.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
They have really good defensive front.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
They won that line of scrimmage, and I think that's
what caused the issues for the Ravens offense and didn't
allow them to really get gone.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
What did you see?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, I think a lot a lot traces back to
that for why the Ravens offense fizzled the way it did.
Just point blank, the Eagles have a very strong defensive
line and it overwhelmed the Ravens offensive line.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
You know, that's not to say I think just.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
A week ago, we were talking about how the Ravens
offensive line has become a strength of this team. I
don't think that this like completely erases all that, right,
like the it doesn't demolish the progress that the Ravens
have made on their offensive line. But they did not
have their best game. And and you know, the opponent
certainly plays a part in that. The Eagles are really good.
(20:37):
Jailing car Carter is a monster. I mean, the guy
played every snap but one. Yeah, what defensive tackle plays
one hundred percent of the snaps? Nobody, that's not heard of. Yeah,
and he was just dominating from start to finish. He
had eight pressures according to Pro Football Focus. And then
Milton Williams, another one of their big defensive tackles, he
(20:57):
had nine, nine pressures. Those two guys, by the way,
you look at PFF pass rush grades among interior defensive linemen,
they sit at number three and four, so they've been
good all year and they were good against the Ravens.
And then oh, by the way, they also have the
other Davis, Jordan Davis, the Haulkings defensive tackle that really
kind of bittled up the Ravens run game. And you know,
(21:17):
I mean the Ravens had some success running the ball,
they got a chunk player two, but for the most part,
Derreck Henry was run into a wall. And so the
biggest thing was really pass pro and that's been the Ravens'
strength this season for their offensive line has been their
pass protection. Lamar Jackson just was not comfortable back there
at all. And when you flip on the tape you
(21:37):
see why. I mean, they had a twenty five percent
pressure rate the Eagles did. They blitzed only thirteen percent
of the time. When they did blitz it jumped to sixties.
You know, two thirds of the time they got pressure
on Lamar Jackson when they blitzed. So he was under
durest and Jalen Carter, that guy's going to a Pro Bowl.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, he's going to go.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
To many Yeah, I mean he is the first pick.
Jordan Davis was also a first round picked. The Ravens
an't the a lot. The Eagles traded in front of
the Ravens back in that draft two years ago to
pick number thirteen to take Jordan Davis.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
So he just gobbles up.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Blockers and then Jalen Carter is more of this spell
splash play guy so they really won the battle.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It's crazy the.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Eagles were able to get Jayalen Carter, who people are
talking about was supposed to be like the maybe the
number one overall pick. Yeah, he fell in the draft
because of endurance, stamina concerns. Well, the guy's playing one
hundred percent of snaps.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
He also they was off the field, Yeah, definitely part
of accident. Ye.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Yeah, And so that was a big part of the
conversation with him.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
But there was like combine chatter about his staminas. Yeah, yeah,
guys play one hundredercent snaps.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean he's a great player, super talented player. But anyway,
so where they really won the battle with was inside
because a lot of times you talk about pressure and
pass rushers, and we talked about the guys on the edge,
and it's like t J. Watt and Miles Garrett and
Michael Parsons. They won up front, and it was in
the middle of the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And that's the problem them really when for Lamar Jackson
when he can't step up.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That's also those running lanes aren't there.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I thought they also didn't like over commit to the
rush and create those lanes for Lamar Jackson's Lamar Jackson
to escape out of which we'll talk more about.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But I thought it was.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
A discipline pass rush approach and smothering, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And so it was a big problem.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
When l Maar Jackson has that much right up the middle,
it's tough.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And whenever the offensive line doesn't have a really good game,
it circles back to the narrative before the season, which
is replacing all these starters. It's like, we're through thirteen
games and then we still circle back to what we
were talking about back in July and August, with what's
this offensive line going to be?
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Who the starters are going to be. It's all these new.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Starters reservices exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And John Harbaugh was asked an element of that this week,
basically saying it's my week, you're looking at everything. Do
you plan to stick with this offensive line? And he said, yes,
the plan is to stick with this offensive line.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
We're quote pretty well set there.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I'm not down on anybody on the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And he said, yeah, we could have basically blocked better,
but quote, I don't think it merits any drastic changes
right now.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So I think the Raves are going to roll with
those five guys that they're going to continue to That's
my expectation that it's going to be the same five
starting offensive lineman and the Ravens are not making a
change at this point.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I think if they were, I agree, I think
that they certainly could keep rolling with those five. I
think that there's a chance that we could see Andrew
Voorhees back in the lineup. You know, Pat McCarey has
I think played well and admirably considering he's been a
full time starter pretty much the whole season. He was
rotating snaps a little bit with Roger Rosey gartin early on.
(24:46):
But you know, Pat's been a guy who we've talked
about previously just physically it's hard for him to play
every single snap, and he's done that, and like I
think the guy deserves a lot of credit for being
a tough player, but like you know, for he's won
that job out of training camp. He was the guy,
and then he went down with an injury and McKay
(25:06):
stepped in and this combination is pretty much has worked
really well. What's a drastic change. I don't think they're
gonna be replacing both their starting guards. We talked to
George Warhop today and he was very high on.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Defense, on the Ravens offensive line coach.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Correct the Ravens offensive line coach, and he was very
high on Daniel foul Le, talking about how he thinks
he's playing really well, that's a really bright future. I
don't I think Daniel Foulo la is going to remain
the starting right guard. I do wonder if there's a
possibility of a change left guard.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
They could keep rolling with Pat and or or it
wouldn't shock me afore he's came in and became the star.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, I would be surprised if they've made a change.
I just think that based on what John Harble said it.
And again we had this whole conversation on the film
review last week of hey, is the offensive line of
strength of this team? Not just getting the job done adequately,
but now they're a strength of the team. And so
you go up against the best defense and football with
one of the best defensive fronts of football, and you
have a tough game, and now you're shaking up the
(26:04):
offensive line.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
I would be surprised if that's the case.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, No, I think that's all fair. Yeah, I think
that's all fair. I think that's just what's drastic. Yeah,
is one starter drastic?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Right? Two start? Does that turn in the drastic? I
don't know.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Fair fair, You gotta look through the details of that.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So that another talking point coming out of this game
was whether Lamar Jackson should have taken off and run more.
And you made headlines after the game. He said he
talked to his mom right after the game. She cussed
him out for saying, you had opportunities to run, you
should have taken him and why.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Didn't you take some of those opportunities?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
And Lamar felt that way, you know, immediately after the game,
after talking with his mom. So, in going back and
looking at the tape, what was your take on the
opportunities there that Lamar had or didn't have to take
off and run?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I mean sure, I think there were a few instances
where okay, like he could.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Have run there. There were no there. I did not.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
See any instances on the film where there was a
parting of the red sea. It was like, oh my gosh,
hands on the head, like, why did he not run there? Right?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
There were maybe three or four where you're like all.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Right, Like, yeah, he could have run there, he would
have probably had to like juke a guy or make
a guy miss or something like that, which he is
certainly capable of doing. He's done it many times exactly.
But like, it wasn't like there was like no eyes
on him. The Eagles, I thought, almost always when I looked,
even at those instances, had a linebacker safety that had
(27:32):
eyes on Lamar Jackson and was near like the first
down marker that he would have needed.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
To get to, right, So, like, that's tough.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So I didn't really see anything glaring in that regard.
And I'll say that more often than not. You know,
Lamar this year has not scrambled very much. Yeah, he's
been escaping the pocket with the intention of throwing, and
more often than not, that's been the right decision, and
he's made people pay it. And in this game when
(28:00):
he escaped and bought time, bought time and the protection
was really good, and you hit Mark Andrews for that
touchdown right that was outside the pocket. And so like
I think, generally speaking, you're always going to have times
every single game probably where he looks back and says, ah,
I could have done it. I could have run there,
I could have done this, I could have done that differently.
That's gonna be every single game, So I didn't think
(28:24):
that this was an outlier from that.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, it's like it's always tough because I think he's
been so good this year at extending plays and looking
downfield to throw the ball, and he's been awesome at that.
Like that market play, he's directing traffic and throws it,
throws a dot where only Mark could get it, And
part of that is just extending the play and then
not running. He could have taken off from run there,
but you wait to see a route develop, you make
(28:46):
a connection with your receiver you're directing and where to go,
and then also you hit the big play right exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
So I'd rather that. Like I think that he's made that.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Change from going to scrambling quicker to making plays with
his arm.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I think it's been a positive.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Uh huh, and I would like.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
To see him continue to do that moving forward. I
actually there was actually one play where Lamar did end
up running early in the game where I thought he
could have thrown it today to say flowers late he
kind of say broke open and Lamar didn't throw it
and he just kind of kept it and we could
have gotten I don't think it was gonna be a
big play, but it would be more yards if had
he thrown it. And the two of them after the
play kind of connected and Lamar almost gave him a
(29:24):
slap on the helmet, like, yeah, I saw you late,
but yeah I could have hit you. But whatever, you know,
he decided to run, so like it goes both ways.
I think Lamar has done a really awesome job of
that so far this season, and I don't want him
to feel like I have to do it all, like
I gotta throw on the cape. I'm just when things
break down, it's all on me to make something happen
with my legs. I like that he's broken out and
(29:46):
been like, all right, let me see one of my
guys shakes.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Free and make a play that way.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I think that outside of just this game, I think
that as we get into these final four regular season
games and then into the playoffs, I do think him
taking off and running could become a larger piece of
the offense here.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I think that that that is I.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Think, especially as it gets colder and all that, Like
when you need, when you need seven yards and the
offense is kind of sluggish and you need just let's
extend the drive here and get a first.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I mean, I maybe the cold runs, but I also
think this on the scrambles, I think there could be
a situations where he takes off and if he sees
a quick running line, let me just go get a
quick That's.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Not really that's obviously not plans, right, that's not part
of the play. You're just saying you think Lamar will
make that decision more often than the stretch.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I think that this final stretch here the rest
of the season, I think that when you tally up
his runs compared to the average of the course of
this whole season, I think we're probably going to see
him run more per game. Whether that's called which could
be a component of it, or him just taking off.
I think he could do more of that because because
his mom said so, yeah, mama knows bests. I mean,
(30:57):
if we know one thing for sure is that Lamar
actually listens to his mom.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yeah, and that's that's.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Been working out pretty well.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
But I just think, like, I mean, that's a funny
element of this story, right, But like I think that
it just at a overall, I think that that the
Ravens are gonna do and Lamar is gonna do whatever
he needs to to win these games. And I agree
with you, it's not all on him, and I don't
want him to feel like I don't think the Ravens
want him to feel all right, man, you just got
to go make every single play and it's all on the.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Cape, right, You don't need to necessarily need to throw
on that cape.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
But I do think that sometimes him getting a quick
seven yards is like that is unstoppable at times.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
And so if you can do that, then then do it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And what's funny? You know you say quick seven yards?
Lamar's kind of the way he's talked about scrambling now
is like I scrambled to score. Yeah, I don't scramble
to get seven yards anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I don't do that anymore, right, right, And so that would.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
That I agree with you because I think that his
mindset has changed. I think that like if he had
if he feels like here's a big play opportunity and
I can scramble and make that happen, he's gonna take that.
But I don't know if that he's gonna just suddenly
start being like, now I'm gonna I'm just gonna take
the seven yards.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I think that like if he could wrap off rack
off some of those forty yard runs like he had
on the.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Last drive of the game.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Second to I thought he was gonna score on that.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
He almost did.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
We all first, I was like, okay, get down, get down,
like don't want her to get hit, And then.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Are you gonna score?
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Like this is crazy?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And so that that was ridiculous play. Tem Martin actually
talked about that play a little bit this this week
today and he had some interesting perspective in just talking
about that that showed Lamar's mentality and no quit, never
say die attitude.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, the fire burn is burning inside Lamar Jackson. I
mean it always has. He's an extremely competitive guy. But
I think that we saw a taste of it after
after the game. We both said we liked his postgame
press cards, like you saw how agitated he was and
frustrated by that loss, and I and that dude can't
(33:06):
wait to get back on the field, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Yeah. That they basically said, like he.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Feel bad for the Giants, already.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Well.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Lamar even said after the game, like, I wish we
didn't have this buy right now.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
I would love.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
To know what now, I won't take the buy this this.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Year if they if they could have uh you know
it brought everybody back into the stadium and just play
the game at eight o'clock reset for a kickoff.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Lamar like, yes, let's do that right now.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
So just I look, the defensive line would be like no,
Lamar this year is carried eight and a half times
a game.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
That's his average. I think that as we look at
the rest of the way, I think that that number
is going to be higher than that.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
That's my question. Is that scheme they're scrambled.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
I think that it could be a little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
But I think that, like when you're just looking at
the total, I think that he's going to run more
than that the rest of the way.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I do think that there could be more called runs,
could there be more scrambles, Sure, But I don't think
it's gonna be anything dressed.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I don't think. I just don't think that. Like I
think his mindset has changed.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
He is looking to make big plays with his arm
when he's scrambling and don't I don't think that's really
gonna change.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, I think I think when I say it's gonna
be more, I'm thinking more in like the ten to
twelve range. I'm not talking twenty to twenty fives. A
pretty good.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Backfield already, So moving on, I thought another thing that
stuck stuck out to me on the film was just
how good this Eagles rushing attack is. And it reminds
you so much of the Ravens, you know, The Ravens
defense kind of got a taste of what it's like
to go against the Ravens offense, you know, and what
other teams face.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
And obviously the duo.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
That Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry are, Jalen Hurts and
Saquon Barkley are pretty darn good duo too, and some
of their RPO stuff, like the pooling linemen, it just
looks a lot like what the Ravens do.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
And the Eagles just hit some of that, you know.
And so I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
That mostly the Ravens did a pretty good job of
bottling them up and not letting Saquon get loose.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
There were a few scram or a few.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Runs by Jalen Hurts, just designed, you know, eight nine
eleven yard runs that were that hurt. And then of
course the twenty five yard touchdown by Saquon that kind
of was the final dagger.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah, I think that it is.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
When I watched their offense, there's a lot of similar
principles that exist, and there's a reason why these are
the top two running teams in the league. Part of
it is personnel. They have two great running backs, but
part of it is a scheme and the quarterback and
the quarterback. Great running backs, great great quarterbacks, and great scheme.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
So it's just really hard to stop.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
And it also it felt like where the Ravens have
so many times over the course of this season with
Derrick Henry, you wear teams down and then he pops
the big run in the fourth quarter. I don't think
the Ravens defense got worn down, but what you did
see happened in that fourth quarter was Saquon Barkley came
up with a big play, they got the twenty five
yard game, and that kind of sealed the game.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And my last thing, speaking of that twenty five yard run,
is you go back and watch the Eagles three touchdowns
in this game and there were pretty big no calls
on all three of them. Obviously, Turning Roman pointed out
the tush push touchdown, the false start that was pretty
obvious when you go back and look at that, that
didn't get called. And I think the Eagles, like the
(36:11):
tushbush has been so successful that it's almost become a
thing where it's like assumed that it's going to be successful,
and they just, yeah, I think that's playing into the success.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
At this point, I was up in the press box
just like, there's no way that got in. I thought they.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I mean, I couldn't tell the fumble honestly from the
press box, but I knew that they stuffed it or
they stuffed it.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
Yeah, well he did ultimately get in.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
He did.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
He did ultimately get in out right, Like, I couldn't
see that around the pile. And that's part of the
problem with the That's why they can't see the false
starts too.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
There's just this mayhem. So it's just a you just
can't see anything in there. All things go, you know,
and so.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And then also on the Saquon Barkley twenty five year
touchdown run, they're left tackle during my lot, I got
a running start, on that he started early. There's no
IF's answer butts about it. Now, that was the key
block on that play.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
He pulled all the way across the line and picked
off Roquan Smith. He got a running start. Would Roquan
have made that play had he been a hair a
tick slower to make that pool block? Yeah, maybe, I
don't know. Saquan kind of got through a small crease there.
It was tight.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Uh. And so that was another one that was just missed.
And then and then on their first there it was
a fake run. It was a fake handoff throw out
into the flats to the tight end. Their offensive linemen
are blocking five yards down the field before that throw.
I mean, we Pat McCarey sitting here getting dinged for
illegal man downfield like crazy.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Yeah, a week ago it was.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
It was definitely there on that one.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Not to mention, aj Brown was blocking ten yards down
the field before that balls caught. So you know, those
pick plays, none of them are like so egregious to
where it's like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, But the fact of the matter is they all happened.
If we're calling it to the letter law, those are
all three of those touchdowns are penalized. Do the Ravens
win the game? I don't know that's a stretch. But
they were big calls. They're big non calls.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Yeah, bign calls. Would have been nice for their big calls.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Yeah, would have been nice.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
Yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
So lastly, before we conclude here, we didn't. I will
humbly read a couple of emails here, Oh, because we
did the Thanksgiving drafts last week and people have spoken
and it was not it was not a great showing
from me. Here's an email. Hey guys, Gary Kluger here
from California. Garrett, I gotta say, make totally smoked you
(38:38):
in Thanksgiving draft. If one of makes choices I had
been stick a fork in my eye, he still would
have smoked. Sorry, dude, be better next year. Another email
I would.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Never punish is that you got to stick a fork
in your eye next year.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I would never even think of emailing, but Garrett's picks
offended me as a fantasy drafter who would draft to
rake leaves, cook the turkey, and watch the Macy's Day parade?
Are you trying to punish your self? I appreciate the
podcast and the takes on the Ravens. McGear should not
be allowed to draft again without adult supervision.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Shaking my head.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So that's the kind of the theme. Those are two
of them. And what I'll say, I'll take the l
on the draft. But what I'll really say here is
I don't think I have a drafting problem. I think
I have a rock paper scissors problem because I found
myself I haven't won rock paper scissors on these drafts
in like years, and we need to do a better
job of stacking the draft so that if you don't
(39:30):
win rock paper scissors, then you're gonna just lose the draft.
Because by by losing rock paper scissors, I was gonna
inevitably end up without the ability to eat and having
to talk politics. It was like you were just getting
saddled with these bad options. So again, it's a rock
paper scissors problem, not a drafting problem.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
So I'm gonna get no, it was also a drafting
because you took the Macy's Day parade over napped. That
was a miss, and then he took Raking Leaves over
the another miss. So it's both you got I mean,
when you get smoked as bad as you got beat
in this it's a multi problem problem. When you break
down the tape. Okay, there's no easy solutions to your
(40:11):
problem in this strap. There are many problems.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
We're going back.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
It's the bye week. I'm going back to the drawing board,
and we're looking at everything. We're looking at everything, so
as always, you can email us the blounge or even
though NFL's net.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
And it's the bye week, so this is a good
chance for everybody to take stock of where they stand.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
And I'm gonna be working hard at that over of course,
in these next few days. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com