December 17, 2024 • 32 mins
Team insiders Ryan Mink and Garrett Downing talk about another Jackson 5 vs. the Giants, the stats behind his special season, whether the improved defense is here to stay, the rookies showing out, and more.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome into the Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Ink
here with Garrett Downing, and we are going to take
a look at the ravens thirty five to fourteen win
over the New York Giants and have a conversation about
Lamar Jackson, that guy that we love to talk about,
and just how special a season he's having. So obviously
a great win over the Giants. Everybody you know predicted
(00:24):
the Ravens to win this game.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They did so.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And I'll start this by saying the narrative of like
the yawn after a blowout win just always kind of
bugs me a little bit, right because I.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Think the Ravens proved.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You know, there's this debate of like, oh, what did
they really prove anything beating the Giants, And like, to me, yeah,
they proved that they weren't going to fall into this
trap game that everybody asked them about all week long,
and they took care of business and did an impressive
fashion that to me proved something. And there were some
individual things by individual players that they also proved in
(00:59):
this game. So I'll just start there. I'll get on
my I mean, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I think that it's important to win, even if you're
supposed to win, It's important to go win the game.
And the Ravens look good doing it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And to me, the whole question about this team right
now is can they get hot down the stretch and
into the playoffs. And that game was an indicator of
me to yes, they can, Like that was potentially a springboard.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Now they got to keep it going.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Obviously Saturday in a huge game against the Pittsburgh Steelers
that's going to have a lot more meaning and is
against you know, a much better team. But that to
me got the ball rolling momentum wise after what was
a frustrating bye week coming off the Eagles loss.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. I also think big picture wise, from a narrative standpoint,
I thought that the Ravens came out of the bye
week feeling like this is a new season, this is
the start of a run. That there's some themes that
I heard come up over and over again. New season refreshed,
it's an eight game season. Okay, well there's four left
in the regular season. Now you have four into the
(01:59):
play Yeah, that would be Bowl. And I think that
that all of those things clearly seem to be part
of the conversation behind the scenes that the Ravens are
talking about, and if it is an eight game season,
they kicked it off on the right note. And that's
what I think, that's what you want to see. You
want to beat the teams. At the end of the day,
wins and losses are all that matter. But it's good
(02:20):
to come off of the buy and deliver that kind
of commanding performance where he dominated the game really from
start to finish. And the guy who we're gonna spend
some time talking about, Lamar Jackson, delivers another historic game.
He the Jackson five. It's like, how many times we're
going to get to use the Jackson five references because
he just keeps having these games where he those five
touchdown passes and I think he's playing the best football
(02:41):
of his career.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, so let's dive into that.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And you know, we've we've had this conversation earlier in
the season, and then there's this kind of three game
stretch for Lamar where the offense and Lamar weren't quite
clicking at the same level as they were in October, right,
And you know, there were even some storylines out of
the by of oh, you know, Lamar's accuracy has been
down a little bit when you look at ball placement
(03:05):
and those things.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Coming out of it.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, you know, he threw more touchdowns than incompletions against
the Giants, and you look at some of those throws,
in particular, just two of the touchdown throws that he had,
the one that Mark andrews the Ravens first of the game,
I mean, just an elite throw right there from a
a Mark kind of did this stutter step. It was
(03:29):
like a rub route. It was like a fake rub route.
And then he went up the field, took it vertical,
and Lamar saw it immediately when he released that ball.
Mark was just coming out of that break. And then
Lamar put it in absolutely the best place possible. It
could not have been thrown better pinpoint pass. And then
I thought his second touchdown passed to overshot Babman. The
(03:51):
first one great play design. He broke wide open. Then
Lamar delivered the ball on the run. It was a
good throw. The second one was that was, according to
the next gen stats like a third three percent completion probability,
great throw in the back corner of the end zone.
I get that the rave the Giants secondary was really
banged up and and you know that hasn't been a
great defense this year in New York. But hey, I
(04:12):
don't care who's defending that pass that was going to
be completed because it was in the perfect spot.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, going back to the Mark Andrews play, that seemed
to be something that that goes back to the field
that those two players have and Lamar, he just seems
to know that that linebacker Isaiah Simmons wasn't going to
turn his head on that play. Like as soon as Lamar,
as soon as Mark Andrews got a sliver of separation
and broke open, Lamar fired a dot on Andrews, and
(04:41):
he in the linebacker never really had a chance he
was he was just chasing Mark down the middle of
the field, and Lamar put it in perfect placement. Do
you think that that play, I'm curious. Was that play
part of a backyard street ball connection between those two
guys or was that the way the play was drawn up?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think that that was the way the the play
was drawn up. Now, the way that Mark took it
after the kind of rub route, the fake kind of
rub route, I think was in part ad libbed a
little bit I think he maybe took it more vertical
than he than was drawn on the paper.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Potentially, That's what he said after the game.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And you know, whether his kind of rub route was
really intended to actually be a rub route and the
ball was supposed to go to the other guy who
he was kind of, you know, getting in the way
of his defender, that remains to be seen.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Also.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I don't know, but I think Lamar certainly saw the
potential for Mark to get over the top of that
linebacker and pulled the trigger pretty fast.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, it just felt like based on the reaction that
Mark had it just of course it was the record
break he touchdown, so you're excited about it, but the
reaction that he had in the moment, the way that
John Harwall talked about it after the game, and the
connection and the field that the two of them have,
it just felt like it just felt like all those
things kind of perfectly came together, which is, of course
the way you want it to be for that kind
(06:00):
of a record breaking touchdown for Mark. That's what's really
defined the two of them in their career here is
the feel that they have there and so it's just
this perfect pass on the mining, great feel, great touch,
great everything, great route, and that's exactly what you want
to see. But it did seem like there was a
little bit of improv which is almost always the case
(06:21):
when Lamar and Mark get together.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
The funny thing is they could have had a second
touchdown later in the game. So the last touchdown passed
to Justice Hill that Lamar hit him wide open in
the flats and he practically waltzed in right as Lamar
turned his focus and saw Justice Hill wide open in
the flats, Mark put a stutter step on I think
it was the safety and then would have broken wide
(06:45):
open for a touchdown over the top, and so Mark
could have had two. But Lamar, you gotta spread the love, right,
you know, the guy just became the all time leader
in total touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Let's get Justice one.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, and Justice had to walk in touchdown.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right, so you can't fall that all pretty good, pretty
good options. Mark always likes to score, you know. But
but he got in the end zone and he gave
Justice to handshake. Well, get a teammate.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So going back to the point about Lamar's accuracy, he
was over eighty percent accurate in this game. I mean
he only had foign completions in this game.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
It's his fifth career game with at least five touchdown
passes and fewer than five incompletions.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It's remarkable, and he's on pace. Last year, in the
first year under Monken, he made big strides pretty much
across the board in the passing categories, and now he's
even gone to another level really across the board in
those passing categories. He's on pace the top four thousand
yards for the first time of his career. And I
think that it's easy to overlook because we're just used
(07:45):
to it, Like you're used to seeing Lamar do these
remarkable things. And I joke about a Jackson five and
it's like, oh, another Jackson five. That's five touchdowns in
a game.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Ronnie Stanley about it after the game. He was like, yeah,
it's pretty normal. I'm used to seeing Lamar put up
big stats, like I know, and so when do you
just have that reaction.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
After five touches up bas and you kind of become
numb to it. But like these numbers that Lamar has
this year are are truly remarkable. He's got thirty five
hundred passing yards, thirty four touchdowns, three interceptions. His quarterback rating,
which is the best in the league, is one twenty
point seven.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And that's at.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Least two of those interceptions went off his receiver's hands
before they were intercepted.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, and he only had three of them. Thirty four touchdowns,
three interceptions. And like when we talked about Lamar when
Lamar won his first MVP, part of the the conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Oh and by the way, all the rushing yards, by
the way, well, of course, aside for the passing stat Well,
he's got seven.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Hundred and forty three rushing yards. He joined Michael Vick
as the only two guys in NFL history as quarterbacks
who has over six thousand. And he's got Michael vix
record in his sights. That could happen at any point, I.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Think that's following this year. He's one hundred and nine
yards away.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
From breaking that could that could happen this game. You
never know, one big run and that thing could be
certainly could taken down. So three touchdowns. So Lamar's season,
like when he won his first MVP in twenty nineteen,
the efficiency and the uniqueness of the way in which
he played was off the charts. Now it's just everything
(09:14):
is off the charts. It's the passing game, it's the touchdowns,
it's the efficiency, it's the running, it hack yards, everything
about it. There's like no weakness to his game. And
I think it's maybe Ronnie Stanley's used to it, and
I think it's easy to kind of get just accustomed
to those numbers. But I don't think that we should,
because what he's doing is truly remarkable, well point blank.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I think that when Lamar came into this league, and
even in twenty nineteen, when everybody saw him do what
he did, you know, everybody's like, Wow, this guy is
the most dynamic quarterback in the league and he's going
to become the best rushing quarterback in the league in
league history. But I don't know that anybody even then
predicted that he would maybe be the best passer in
(09:59):
the league.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's where he's at, folks.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
He is maybe the best passer in the NFL, not
to mention the best running quarterback in the NFL. Right,
I mean, that's pretty remarkable that development over his career.
I mean, he has a quarterback rating this year of
one twenty point seven. That's the highest in the league.
It's not only the highest in the league this year,
(10:22):
but it's the fourth highest in season, single season NFL
history with the minimum of twelve starts. The only guys,
if the season were to end today, the only guys
that would have had a better passer rating over a
full season, it will be Aaron Rodgers in twenty eleven,
who was one twenty two point five, Aaron Rodgers in
twenty twenty, twenty twenty, who has won twenty one point five,
(10:45):
and Peyton Manning in two thousand and four at one
twenty one point one. Then it's Lamar who's ahead of
Tom Brady, who's ahead of Matt Ryan. By the way,
all those guys in those seasons won the MVP, right
And like, I know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
The MVP conversation is out there right now, that's not
really I mean, Joe Josh Allen's having an awesome season.
He's been great. Joe Burrow's having a great season as well.
Those guys are putting up monster in no league. Jamon
Barkley's having a monster season as well. So neither of
us have an MVP vote, So we're not really like.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Of course, you will vote for our guy if we did,
but we're not like going to sit here and have
the full MVP debate, and I'll add Lamar doesn't really care. Yeah,
to be honest, I mean, of course, winning an MVP
is not a bad thing, but like he has a
singular focus and that's on the Super Bowl and Super
Bowl alone.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
It's very clear like that the level of singular focus
that he has, and that's always been that way. But
I think that even I always go back to when
we have the conversation with him at the start of
the season and he talked about how feeling like there's
he's a veteran player. Now he's he's in his seventh
season and you learn from your experiences of the highs
(11:54):
and lows of a career, and feels like the clock
is ticking, and so his focus all year I just
think has been so dialed in and even right now,
I think you see that. And when he stands up
after the game in the locker room and coach Arball
gives him a game ball, and his point is, I
(12:14):
feel like, this is the start of our season, Like
you got to stay focused. This is the start of
our season. And I just think that he's setting a
tone in that way, and honestly, has been all throughout
the year, and.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He did last year right like he did. I think that.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
This has been Lamar has been in this mode for
a while, and I think every you know, the times
that he's come up short, that's only fueled it more
and more. For sure, he knows what's out there. Everybody
knows what's out there for Lamar. There's one one thing
left to do on the checklist. He's gotten all the
individual accomplishments. He's set the records, He's gonna set more records,
right like all that stuff, There's one thing left on
(12:51):
the checklist, and that's what he wants. And I think
that if he keeps playing the way that he is
right now, the way that we saw in New York,
and he's gonna face you know, better defenses than that,
that he's going to need to still play at that level.
If he continues to do that, the Ravens are going
to check that off the list.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, I totally agree. So I just do you do
you agree with the sense that this is the best
he's ever played?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, I don't think there's any question. And
you know, it's just is he going to play that
way down stretch here?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And in the playoffs and the question and that really
that test gets a lot harder this week against the Steelers.
Steelers have been a team, as we all talked about
a month ago, when the Ravens face the Steelers, that's
been the team that has given the team the most trouble.
That's what the Ravens. That's Lamar has not played his
best against the Steelers. The Ravens have not played their
best against the Steelers. They've they have, really and there's
a lot of weird games in that mix of how
(13:44):
the how the Steelers have won so many over the
last five years here, there's some weird games in that situation.
But Lamar hasn't played his best. The Ravens offense hasn't
and that was the case when they played when the
two teams met up a month ago. Is so that
challenge is going to be greater this week is certainly
than it was a week ago.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It's certainly unfair to put it all on o our shoulders,
both against the Steelers and in the quest to capture
a Super Bowl. Right like now, He's where it begins,
right He's the most important piece to that puzzle.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
There's no doubt.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
About that, but like, yeah, everybody's everybody's got to get there.
To get the Ravens over the humping into the super Bowl,
everybody's got to do the same thing to get over
the Steelers, you know, hurdle that they they've run up against.
So yeah, I think that this team knows collectively we
haven't played our best ball against the Steelers and that
needs that needs to get fixed.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Well, it's going to be obviously a big tests against
the Steelers this week, and just to set the stage
there in terms of what all is at stake there.
If the Raves are going to win the division, they
need to beat the Steelers this week at Mt. Bank Stadium,
but they also still would need some help the Ravens
after this game, of course by the Texans, and then
they close the season against the Browns. The Steelers go
and they play the Chiefs, and then they play the Bengals.
(14:54):
The Bengals in their last game of the season. The
Ravens would need the Steelers to lose at least one
more game there in order to have a chance to
win that division. Of course, it depends on what the
Ravens do. But so the Ravens know the main point
is Ravens need to win this game if they're going
to have a chance to win the division. And in
order to do that, Lamar and this offense need to
(15:14):
play at a high level and that is their focus
this week. So let's take a quick break. When we
come back, we'll dive into some of the other takeaways
from this game against the Giants. If you're listening to
the Lounge podcast, we are coming to you from the
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(15:38):
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Vodka dot com. So one of the things that stands
out to me after this game against the Giants, the
Ravens defense now has played really forced games of looking
(16:01):
pretty good and there's lots of different reasons why. One
of them. By the way, we got to mention the
podcast Bump. I mentioned it with Cliff after the game,
but our Darius Washington is playing really well. We had
him on the podcast. If you haven't checked out that interview,
go back and check that out. It's kind of interesting
to learn about his his backstory and his path getting
to this point. But he's a big reason why this
defense is playing well. I think that this improved defense
(16:22):
is here to stay. I think that, of course, the
Ravens could play some teams here down the stretch and
into the playoffs that are explosive offenses that are going
to be tough to stop the way that they they're not.
They're gonna be tough to control the game the way
they did against the Giants. But I think that this
defense has turned a corner and it's going to be
playing the big plays and the communication lapses I think
that we saw earlier in the year. I think those
(16:44):
are done well.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And let's just I mean, sure, yeah, the Giants were
down to their third string quarterback, you know, and Tommy
Depto even left the game of the concussion, and so
not pretending that the Giants offense is one of the
best in the league. But the Eagles offense is yeah,
and the Chargers offense is pretty during good Steelers offense
(17:05):
has been really hot at times this year, for sure,
And those are the other three games in that four
game streak.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That you're talking about for this defense.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So like, I don't think you can just say, well,
it was the Giants defense has been playing good against
some good offenses. Yeah, And so yeah, I do think
that this defense is here to stay.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Again.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
They've got another test here coming up with the Steelers.
Who now are they going to have George Pickens. That's
a question, that's a big question mark in this game.
But they will be tested, and I think I expect
that this Ravens defense will continue to play at at
a high level. Well.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
One of the guys who's playing well and who has
seen his snaps increase, especially over the course of the
last month is the rookie first round pick Nate Wagans. Yeah,
and the scouting report of him coming out of the
drafts was this guy is a natural cover corner, sticky
and coverage. He's the Ravens said on draft weekend they
felt like he was the best pure cover corner draft
and we're seeing that, and he matched up against Lak Neighbors,
(18:03):
who was first round pick for the Giants, and didn't
give up anything.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean, according to Pro Football Focus, there are
four targets. Gave up one catch for nine yards. You
go back and look at what that catch was. It
was a wide receiver bubble screen. Yeah, you know where
Nate had ten yards of cushion on him. So it's
not like when it was one on one Neighbors did
the old put them in a box and give them
the double thumbs down.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It was lockdown.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And in particular three shots from the goal line, three
end zone shots, two of which were actually thrown. Neighbors
didn't catch any of them, and Wiggins had really tight
coverage on a couple of fades really and then just
had such a good coverage set on a third attempt.
But it was clearly a rollout attempt for Neighbors and
(18:48):
he just had to go the quarterback had to go
somewhere else. And so I thought that those three plays,
in particular on the goal line were a real confidence
booster for Nate Wiggins, and to see him do it
against I mean, Molik Nighbors is the most talented rookie
wide receiver in the league.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Guy's been a monster. He is really good.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and I thought for Wiggins to do that, that
really said something to me.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Well, you could see Wiggans and meant something to him too.
He was drawn a little bit at Neighbors and some
of the New York fans there. And he plays with edge,
he plays with confidence, and he's not immune to trash talk.
That certainly is something that's part of his game.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
In the week leading up to the game, you know,
I asked him about that matchup and he said, yeah, yeah,
we'll see, Like I'm ready for that one.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You know, he has that confidence about him.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
He's not going to back down against anybody, you know,
no matter what they've done previously. Nate Wiggins thinks I
can cover anybody, and so we're seeing that.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, and I think he's just going to continue to
be a huge piece of this defense. Another interesting note
from this game defense wise, is that the Ravens made
a change and we've seen this kind of start, but
it was accelerated a little bit in this game at
inside linebacker and they really w with Malik Harrison and
Chris Board next to Roquan Smith instead of Trenton Simpson
(20:06):
and Trenton ended up playing later in the game, but
more in.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
The fourth quarter. Some coverede snaps. I think it was
seven covers.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, But like he was a guy coming into the
year who was playing almost all the snaps at the
very at the outset, and so he's been replaced right
now for the time being. John Harriwall talked about that
and he said it's kind of a reset for him,
is to take a chance to take a deep breath.
Trenton is men. That guy plays hard, he wants it,
he works hard, so he does all those things right.
I think it's I think it's just been a learning
(20:35):
curve for him. He's a young player that steps into
the lineup and you think that it's going to be
easy because Okay, you're playing next to Roquan and just
go fly around and make tackles. Well, there's a lot
going on there in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It moves fast.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
It moves fast. It's a tough assignment.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, it's it's tough for any rookie inside linebacker. Well,
he's not a rookie, but essentially he is. I mean,
he barely played last year. He barely played last year.
So essentially he's a rookie and you know he's had
it from a film, but on the field, yeah, it's
his first time. And I mean we saw it with
Patrick Queen, who was a first round pick. Yeah, we
saw him have his struggles and there were times when
(21:10):
he had his snaps decreased yep, dramatically even, And you know,
I remember the stories around that time and it was like,
all right, you know, let's let Josh Binds come in,
a veteran who's seen it all, done it all is.
Can we know he's going to play at a solid level,
you know, as he has athletic and and all that. No,
the ceiling is higher with this younger guy. But there's
(21:32):
something to be said for experience, especially at that position,
seeing it all and knowing what's going on in front
of you, trusting your eyes, trusting your instincts, and that's
an important part of an inside linebaker's job. And I
think that Trenton it's you know, it's just it's a
tough assignment. So I think that Trentonill is going to
be a good player in this league.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I really do. I Mean, he's got.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
All the athleticism in the world that you want. He
has the perfect attitude. That dude works hard, he cares,
he's gonna he's going to put pour everything into it,
and he's going to get there. It's just right now
the Ravens are at a spot where you know they
needed a little higher, better, a little more consistent play
there next to Roquan Smith.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I don't know exactly what all was going on. It's
you can try to put your healself in the head
of a player or whatever, and that's and that's difficult.
But I know at times it felt like, going back
to the Patrick Queen example, that there were times early
in his career where it felt like he was thinking
a little too much out there just not playing, and
then once the light kind of came off for him
and he just felt like he was playing and reacting.
It really seemed like his game went to another level.
(22:32):
I think it's somewhat similar to Trenton. And of course,
when you're a young player and you're out there thinking
about all that's happening in front of you, and you're
trying to diagnose and you're trying to make sure that
you're in the right spot, there's just a lot that's
happening and a lot to process. And he's so athletic
and so gifted, and but it's there's a lot of
things that are that are playing out in front of
you that you need to consider. And so I think
(22:53):
that that could be part of what's happening there.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And how much does that put more on roque Smith's plate?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Right? Does he feel like he has to kind of
make up for some of that?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And you know, I think that we've seen since the
Ravens have made these changes to give him Aleak and
and Chris Board more time, I think we've seen Roquan
also play better.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
You know, he was the Ravens highest.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Graded defender from Pro Football Focus in this game against
the Giants, And so I think it's two part kind
of solution there.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Well, the other part, too is if you go back
a couple of games, ro Quwand Smith hurt his hamstring
against the Steelers the first time they played, left that game,
and then against the Chargers, Malie Harrison steps into the
lineup and Malik Harrison played great. He had an awesome
game against them, love the team and tackles, And I
don't know if basically that performance earned him more snaps
in the coach's eyes. I'm sure that probably helped, didn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, he was like, you play well, you get more opportunities.
Sean Harball has been pretty clear about that over his tenure.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And so it's sort of like, oh, you know what,
maybe maybe you should give hm Alik a little bit
more run here because he's playing really well. And here's
a veteran player. He knows where to be and he's
physical of course, but like and so like he's played
well too. Yeah, like in a strange way that like
that that one game absence from Roquand gave Malik and
Chris Board more of an opportunity. They seized it, and
(24:08):
now it's helping the defense overall.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, gave the Ravens some more insight. Yeah, into that
whole situation. The meritocracy yearn what you get and the
leek Harrison and Chris Board earned it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
And then the last point that I have from this
game is Roger Rosegarten just continues to I.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Should have said you get what you earn, right, not
you earn what you get right? Yeah? Or does it
work both ways? Out at whatever? Pushed another saying you've
never for the course.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You've never hit one of those sayings you scroll them up,
So that's just part of how it goes. But the
last one I have on going to the offensive side
of the ball sticking with a rookie that we talked
about is Roger Rosegarten just continues to play. Well. Really,
this freaking class overall had a good game. I mean,
you have Javontes Walker first catch, touchdown, and Rashina Lee
(24:53):
gets his first carry, finishes eight carries, thirty.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Six yards four pop. Yeah, I thought he.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
He looked pretty good. And so you see these this
rookie class getting more and more action, which is which
was encouraging. I don't think that Tez and rashin a
Lee are going to be key pieces of the game
plan here down the stretch, but it's good to get
them action, right.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That was kind of the I thought a bit of
a false narrative coming out of this game, was like, oh,
you know, you're gonna need these guys down the stretch,
and so it's good to get them some action. Like
I don't really you know, they're not going to be
playing key roles here down the stretch and in the playoffs.
The Ravens have the wide receivers they need, They have
plenty of targets. They have the running backs, you know,
just Sill and Derek Henry going to lead the way.
(25:33):
But I think that it's just good to get those
guys snaps for their careers. Yeah moving forward, like those
are just valuable game reps and sure, yes, if pressed
into action down the stretch, it's great to get get
them some snaps. I think that was kind of the
hope going into this Giants game was, you know, do
you build a big enough.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Lead where you can get some of these reserves some snaps.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It was good.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Now want to rest and rest some of your starters,
give them a little time off with three games in
eleven days.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, it's good on multiple fronts. So well, the young
guy who is going to be really important and it
is going to be a huge piece of the game
plan is Roger Rosegarten going back to him as he's
starting right tackle. He just just played well this year.
He stepped into that starting job and he's doing it
at a high level. I know you tracked down the
stat and looking at Pro Football Focus of all the
tackles drafted in the first two rounds and there were
(26:17):
twelve of them. Rose Garten went at the end of
the second round. He's got the second best grade according
to Pro Football Focus, of any of those guys. The
only one ahead of him is Joe Alt from the Chargers,
who was a fifth overall pick. Yeah, so that's saying
something about Rosegarten right there.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, he's playing at a really high level.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And it's been the past four games, specifically in pass protection.
And that started with the Steelers and TJ. Watt, which
was the marquee assignment for him, obviously, and he played
well in that game.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
TJ.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Watt, despite the Steelers win, did not wreck that game
at all. And you know, Roger, if TJ. Watt plays
now he's dealing with an ankle injury, it remains to
be seen. Coach Mike Tomlins said that he's up a
mystic that TJ.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Watte will play.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
We've gosh, we've seen this movie a thousand times, right, Oh, TJ. Watt. Look,
if I'm a bet man, I'm betting TJ. Watt's gonna
be out on that field. But for Roger that's when
it started. And really the past four weeks he's given
up two pressures over those four games. According to Pro
Football Focus, that's pretty darn good. And now we've also
(27:25):
seen the past three games he's been blocking run blocking
at a higher level, and so yeah, look, the it
says something that for a rookie right tackle, you go
into the game, you're like, yeah, I know what I'm
gonna get from Roger, Like I feel totally comfortable there,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Like that says something alone.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, Well, if you go back to the draft and
there was how much signed did we spend talking about
first round tackle targets for the Raves and they ended
up going with Nate Wagan, So we just talked about
very happy with him. And then you get the tackle
in the second round and you might have got you
might have got just as good of a player at
the end of the second round and you could have
gotten in the first round.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Looking like a big win, it's looking like a big
win for Eric to coost Like.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
It's good from a value standpoint, and it's good from
the team needed him to step in their standpoint, and
that's really really important.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Just looking at the film. I mean, Roger we've known
for a while, is a very athletic I really like
how he mixes up his pass sets. Sometimes he'll do
his whole like jump on him quickly, you know, come
out almost as if he's run blocking, and then close
that gap really fast, and you see his ability to
mirror very well. I just he looks very comfortable out
(28:34):
there to me right now, when you watch him on film,
he just knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, totally. Now, the last point I want to hit
is special teams. It was much better in this game.
And the Ravens Special teams unit has got too many
penalties this year and not played up to the level
consistently that we're used to seeing from the special teams
here in Baltimore. But they look good turn game coverage,
game kicking, game, everything looked good across the board, and
(28:58):
that was a that was a really good sign for
the special team sheet.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, I agree. I think that.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
You know, we've talked to Chris Horton about this and
he said, part of it is that we have young players,
a lot of young players playing in different spots on
special teams. Obviously, every team was adjusting to the new
kickoff dynamic kickoff rules, and also the Ravens signed Deontay
Hardy to be their return and he's barely played this year,
so that loss, you know, that hurt a little bit.
(29:27):
And so but I think that the Ravens hopefully this
Giants game, it was a turn in the corner kind
of moment for them. They had their longest kickoff return
and longest punt returns of the season. I thought that
kickoff wise, Justice Hilberg a fifty nine yarder on the
first play of the game, and really good blocking from
Rashine Ali. He was kind of the lead block guiding
(29:47):
him through that gap. Good block from Tyler Willace on
that and Chris Board also to kind of pave the way.
And then Justice is just awesome. I just I'll take
the ball in Justice's hand almost every time. He's just
a good player, and he hit it hard. And then
I thought Desmond King. You know, obviously Tyler Wallace had
a little bit of struggles in that Eagles game. Put
(30:09):
two balls on the ground, per cover both, but not
what you want to see, you know, wasn't fielding balls
that he should have come up and caught. And so
the Ravens made the switch to Desmond King. He's a
veteran returner, done it a lot over his career, and
you saw it in this game, just the confidence that
he has catching the ball because on his on his
strong punt return, I think it was a twenty one yarder.
(30:30):
He came up and that was a short punt that
and that thing was blowing around. I mean that thing
was a curveball and he came up, caught it on
the run, still made a few tacklers miss and got
up field for a very nice game. So I thought
that you just see the difference there. Here's a guy
who's done it a lot, whereas Tyler Wallace is a
much younger player in his return career.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, John Harbloo does say that the plan moving forward,
at least for this game, is going to be that
Desmond King will remain as a punt returner. He's currently
on the practice score, so the Ravens could continue to
elevate him as a game day elevation or at some
point they can move him to the fifty three men roster,
but he's going to be the pump returner for this
game against the Steelers, and he again he did look
good doing it. Another interesting note was that they did
(31:13):
get some reps for Jordan Stout on kickoff, and of
course Justin Tucker's been kicking off here forever, and so
they gave Stout some reps there in the second half.
He can just boom it out of the back of
the end zone. He did that in college. He was
a kickoff and he did both punts and kicks in college.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
He did it all.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, he did it all. So he's familiar with that.
But that is another option. He's got a big leg,
and so obviously Justin's had challenges this year in the
field goal kicking game, but brings Stout into the mix,
there is another option for you know, if they want
to just have somebody that can boom it out of
the back at the end zone.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think there's no harm.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, you know, you save one kick on Justin Tucker's
leg and yeah, and you know, if you're basically just
like we want to touch back here. Justin Tucker's great
at at pinpoint offs. He can place the ball really well,
I think, probably better than Jordan Stout can. But if
your only intention is let's just boom it out of
(32:07):
the back of the end zone, why not just let
Jordan Stout pound away at it.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, And he again he didn't call it, but he
hasn't done in the pros yet, so this is just
to get him some game action to see how he
does there. Yep, totally so again, Raven's welcome to Steelers
of Town. This week, we are going to have a
player interview between now and then, so stay tuned for
that over the course of the next couple of days.
As always, you can email us at the lounge at
Ravens dot NFL dot net. Thank you so much for
listening and we will be back with you again soon
Welcome into the Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Ink
here with Garrett Downing, and we are going to take
a look at the ravens thirty five to fourteen win
over the New York Giants and have a conversation about
Lamar Jackson, that guy that we love to talk about,
and just how special a season he's having. So obviously
a great win over the Giants. Everybody you know predicted
(00:24):
the Ravens to win this game.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They did so.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And I'll start this by saying the narrative of like
the yawn after a blowout win just always kind of
bugs me a little bit, right because I.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Think the Ravens proved.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You know, there's this debate of like, oh, what did
they really prove anything beating the Giants, And like, to me, yeah,
they proved that they weren't going to fall into this
trap game that everybody asked them about all week long,
and they took care of business and did an impressive
fashion that to me proved something. And there were some
individual things by individual players that they also proved in
(00:59):
this game. So I'll just start there. I'll get on
my I mean, I agree, I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I think that it's important to win, even if you're
supposed to win, It's important to go win the game.
And the Ravens look good doing it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And to me, the whole question about this team right
now is can they get hot down the stretch and
into the playoffs. And that game was an indicator of
me to yes, they can, Like that was potentially a springboard.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Now they got to keep it going.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Obviously Saturday in a huge game against the Pittsburgh Steelers
that's going to have a lot more meaning and is
against you know, a much better team. But that to
me got the ball rolling momentum wise after what was
a frustrating bye week coming off the Eagles loss.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. I also think big picture wise, from a narrative standpoint,
I thought that the Ravens came out of the bye
week feeling like this is a new season, this is
the start of a run. That there's some themes that
I heard come up over and over again. New season refreshed,
it's an eight game season. Okay, well there's four left
in the regular season. Now you have four into the
(01:59):
play Yeah, that would be Bowl. And I think that
that all of those things clearly seem to be part
of the conversation behind the scenes that the Ravens are
talking about, and if it is an eight game season,
they kicked it off on the right note. And that's
what I think, that's what you want to see. You
want to beat the teams. At the end of the day,
wins and losses are all that matter. But it's good
(02:20):
to come off of the buy and deliver that kind
of commanding performance where he dominated the game really from
start to finish. And the guy who we're gonna spend
some time talking about, Lamar Jackson, delivers another historic game.
He the Jackson five. It's like, how many times we're
going to get to use the Jackson five references because
he just keeps having these games where he those five
touchdown passes and I think he's playing the best football
(02:41):
of his career.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, so let's dive into that.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And you know, we've we've had this conversation earlier in
the season, and then there's this kind of three game
stretch for Lamar where the offense and Lamar weren't quite
clicking at the same level as they were in October, right,
And you know, there were even some storylines out of
the by of oh, you know, Lamar's accuracy has been
down a little bit when you look at ball placement
(03:05):
and those things.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Coming out of it.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, you know, he threw more touchdowns than incompletions against
the Giants, and you look at some of those throws,
in particular, just two of the touchdown throws that he had,
the one that Mark andrews the Ravens first of the game,
I mean, just an elite throw right there from a
a Mark kind of did this stutter step. It was
(03:29):
like a rub route. It was like a fake rub route.
And then he went up the field, took it vertical,
and Lamar saw it immediately when he released that ball.
Mark was just coming out of that break. And then
Lamar put it in absolutely the best place possible. It
could not have been thrown better pinpoint pass. And then
I thought his second touchdown passed to overshot Babman. The
(03:51):
first one great play design. He broke wide open. Then
Lamar delivered the ball on the run. It was a
good throw. The second one was that was, according to
the next gen stats like a third three percent completion probability,
great throw in the back corner of the end zone.
I get that the rave the Giants secondary was really
banged up and and you know that hasn't been a
great defense this year in New York. But hey, I
(04:12):
don't care who's defending that pass that was going to
be completed because it was in the perfect spot.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, going back to the Mark Andrews play, that seemed
to be something that that goes back to the field
that those two players have and Lamar, he just seems
to know that that linebacker Isaiah Simmons wasn't going to
turn his head on that play. Like as soon as Lamar,
as soon as Mark Andrews got a sliver of separation
and broke open, Lamar fired a dot on Andrews, and
(04:41):
he in the linebacker never really had a chance he
was he was just chasing Mark down the middle of
the field, and Lamar put it in perfect placement. Do
you think that that play, I'm curious. Was that play
part of a backyard street ball connection between those two
guys or was that the way the play was drawn up?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think that that was the way the the play
was drawn up. Now, the way that Mark took it
after the kind of rub route, the fake kind of
rub route, I think was in part ad libbed a
little bit I think he maybe took it more vertical
than he than was drawn on the paper.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Potentially, That's what he said after the game.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And you know, whether his kind of rub route was
really intended to actually be a rub route and the
ball was supposed to go to the other guy who
he was kind of, you know, getting in the way
of his defender, that remains to be seen.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Also.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I don't know, but I think Lamar certainly saw the
potential for Mark to get over the top of that
linebacker and pulled the trigger pretty fast.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, it just felt like based on the reaction that
Mark had it just of course it was the record
break he touchdown, so you're excited about it, but the
reaction that he had in the moment, the way that
John Harwall talked about it after the game, and the
connection and the field that the two of them have,
it just felt like it just felt like all those
things kind of perfectly came together, which is, of course
the way you want it to be for that kind
(06:00):
of a record breaking touchdown for Mark. That's what's really
defined the two of them in their career here is
the feel that they have there and so it's just
this perfect pass on the mining, great feel, great touch,
great everything, great route, and that's exactly what you want
to see. But it did seem like there was a
little bit of improv which is almost always the case
(06:21):
when Lamar and Mark get together.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
The funny thing is they could have had a second
touchdown later in the game. So the last touchdown passed
to Justice Hill that Lamar hit him wide open in
the flats and he practically waltzed in right as Lamar
turned his focus and saw Justice Hill wide open in
the flats, Mark put a stutter step on I think
it was the safety and then would have broken wide
(06:45):
open for a touchdown over the top, and so Mark
could have had two. But Lamar, you gotta spread the love, right,
you know, the guy just became the all time leader
in total touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Let's get Justice one.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, and Justice had to walk in touchdown.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right, so you can't fall that all pretty good, pretty
good options. Mark always likes to score, you know. But
but he got in the end zone and he gave
Justice to handshake. Well, get a teammate.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So going back to the point about Lamar's accuracy, he
was over eighty percent accurate in this game. I mean
he only had foign completions in this game.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
It's his fifth career game with at least five touchdown
passes and fewer than five incompletions.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It's remarkable, and he's on pace. Last year, in the
first year under Monken, he made big strides pretty much
across the board in the passing categories, and now he's
even gone to another level really across the board in
those passing categories. He's on pace the top four thousand
yards for the first time of his career. And I
think that it's easy to overlook because we're just used
(07:45):
to it, Like you're used to seeing Lamar do these
remarkable things. And I joke about a Jackson five and
it's like, oh, another Jackson five. That's five touchdowns in
a game.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Ronnie Stanley about it after the game. He was like, yeah,
it's pretty normal. I'm used to seeing Lamar put up
big stats, like I know, and so when do you
just have that reaction.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
After five touches up bas and you kind of become
numb to it. But like these numbers that Lamar has
this year are are truly remarkable. He's got thirty five
hundred passing yards, thirty four touchdowns, three interceptions. His quarterback rating,
which is the best in the league, is one twenty
point seven.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And that's at.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Least two of those interceptions went off his receiver's hands
before they were intercepted.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, and he only had three of them. Thirty four touchdowns,
three interceptions. And like when we talked about Lamar when
Lamar won his first MVP, part of the the conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Oh and by the way, all the rushing yards, by
the way, well, of course, aside for the passing stat Well,
he's got seven.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Hundred and forty three rushing yards. He joined Michael Vick
as the only two guys in NFL history as quarterbacks
who has over six thousand. And he's got Michael vix
record in his sights. That could happen at any point, I.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Think that's following this year. He's one hundred and nine
yards away.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
From breaking that could that could happen this game. You
never know, one big run and that thing could be
certainly could taken down. So three touchdowns. So Lamar's season,
like when he won his first MVP in twenty nineteen,
the efficiency and the uniqueness of the way in which
he played was off the charts. Now it's just everything
(09:14):
is off the charts. It's the passing game, it's the touchdowns,
it's the efficiency, it's the running, it hack yards, everything
about it. There's like no weakness to his game. And
I think it's maybe Ronnie Stanley's used to it, and
I think it's easy to kind of get just accustomed
to those numbers. But I don't think that we should,
because what he's doing is truly remarkable, well point blank.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I think that when Lamar came into this league, and
even in twenty nineteen, when everybody saw him do what
he did, you know, everybody's like, Wow, this guy is
the most dynamic quarterback in the league and he's going
to become the best rushing quarterback in the league in
league history. But I don't know that anybody even then
predicted that he would maybe be the best passer in
(09:59):
the league.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's where he's at, folks.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
He is maybe the best passer in the NFL, not
to mention the best running quarterback in the NFL. Right,
I mean, that's pretty remarkable that development over his career.
I mean, he has a quarterback rating this year of
one twenty point seven. That's the highest in the league.
It's not only the highest in the league this year,
(10:22):
but it's the fourth highest in season, single season NFL
history with the minimum of twelve starts. The only guys,
if the season were to end today, the only guys
that would have had a better passer rating over a
full season, it will be Aaron Rodgers in twenty eleven,
who was one twenty two point five, Aaron Rodgers in
twenty twenty, twenty twenty, who has won twenty one point five,
(10:45):
and Peyton Manning in two thousand and four at one
twenty one point one. Then it's Lamar who's ahead of
Tom Brady, who's ahead of Matt Ryan. By the way,
all those guys in those seasons won the MVP, right
And like, I know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
The MVP conversation is out there right now, that's not
really I mean, Joe Josh Allen's having an awesome season.
He's been great. Joe Burrow's having a great season as well.
Those guys are putting up monster in no league. Jamon
Barkley's having a monster season as well. So neither of
us have an MVP vote, So we're not really like.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Of course, you will vote for our guy if we did,
but we're not like going to sit here and have
the full MVP debate, and I'll add Lamar doesn't really care. Yeah,
to be honest, I mean, of course, winning an MVP
is not a bad thing, but like he has a
singular focus and that's on the Super Bowl and Super
Bowl alone.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
It's very clear like that the level of singular focus
that he has, and that's always been that way. But
I think that even I always go back to when
we have the conversation with him at the start of
the season and he talked about how feeling like there's
he's a veteran player. Now he's he's in his seventh
season and you learn from your experiences of the highs
(11:54):
and lows of a career, and feels like the clock
is ticking, and so his focus all year I just
think has been so dialed in and even right now,
I think you see that. And when he stands up
after the game in the locker room and coach Arball
gives him a game ball, and his point is, I
(12:14):
feel like, this is the start of our season, Like
you got to stay focused. This is the start of
our season. And I just think that he's setting a
tone in that way, and honestly, has been all throughout
the year, and.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He did last year right like he did. I think that.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
This has been Lamar has been in this mode for
a while, and I think every you know, the times
that he's come up short, that's only fueled it more
and more. For sure, he knows what's out there. Everybody
knows what's out there for Lamar. There's one one thing
left to do on the checklist. He's gotten all the
individual accomplishments. He's set the records, He's gonna set more records,
right like all that stuff, There's one thing left on
(12:51):
the checklist, and that's what he wants. And I think
that if he keeps playing the way that he is
right now, the way that we saw in New York,
and he's gonna face you know, better defenses than that,
that he's going to need to still play at that level.
If he continues to do that, the Ravens are going
to check that off the list.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, I totally agree. So I just do you do
you agree with the sense that this is the best
he's ever played?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, I don't think there's any question. And
you know, it's just is he going to play that
way down stretch here?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And in the playoffs and the question and that really
that test gets a lot harder this week against the Steelers.
Steelers have been a team, as we all talked about
a month ago, when the Ravens face the Steelers, that's
been the team that has given the team the most trouble.
That's what the Ravens. That's Lamar has not played his
best against the Steelers. The Ravens have not played their
best against the Steelers. They've they have, really and there's
a lot of weird games in that mix of how
(13:44):
the how the Steelers have won so many over the
last five years here, there's some weird games in that situation.
But Lamar hasn't played his best. The Ravens offense hasn't
and that was the case when they played when the
two teams met up a month ago. Is so that
challenge is going to be greater this week is certainly
than it was a week ago.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It's certainly unfair to put it all on o our shoulders,
both against the Steelers and in the quest to capture
a Super Bowl. Right like now, He's where it begins,
right He's the most important piece to that puzzle.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
There's no doubt.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
About that, but like, yeah, everybody's everybody's got to get there.
To get the Ravens over the humping into the super Bowl,
everybody's got to do the same thing to get over
the Steelers, you know, hurdle that they they've run up against.
So yeah, I think that this team knows collectively we
haven't played our best ball against the Steelers and that
needs that needs to get fixed.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Well, it's going to be obviously a big tests against
the Steelers this week, and just to set the stage
there in terms of what all is at stake there.
If the Raves are going to win the division, they
need to beat the Steelers this week at Mt. Bank Stadium,
but they also still would need some help the Ravens
after this game, of course by the Texans, and then
they close the season against the Browns. The Steelers go
and they play the Chiefs, and then they play the Bengals.
(14:54):
The Bengals in their last game of the season. The
Ravens would need the Steelers to lose at least one
more game there in order to have a chance to
win that division. Of course, it depends on what the
Ravens do. But so the Ravens know the main point
is Ravens need to win this game if they're going
to have a chance to win the division. And in
order to do that, Lamar and this offense need to
(15:14):
play at a high level and that is their focus
this week. So let's take a quick break. When we
come back, we'll dive into some of the other takeaways
from this game against the Giants. If you're listening to
the Lounge podcast, we are coming to you from the
Seakik Studio. We also want to mention our partners with
Draft Kings Sportsbook. They are an official sports betting partner
of the Baltimore Ravens Draft King Sportsbook. The Crown is Yours. Also,
Tito's Handmade Vodka is America's oldest. Also, Tito's Handmade Vodka
(15:38):
is America's original craft vodka, distilled on the same land
where it all started in Austin, Texas. Tito's is made
from corn and naturally gluten free. Visit us at Teitos
Vodka dot com. So one of the things that stands
out to me after this game against the Giants, the
Ravens defense now has played really forced games of looking
(16:01):
pretty good and there's lots of different reasons why. One
of them. By the way, we got to mention the
podcast Bump. I mentioned it with Cliff after the game,
but our Darius Washington is playing really well. We had
him on the podcast. If you haven't checked out that interview,
go back and check that out. It's kind of interesting
to learn about his his backstory and his path getting
to this point. But he's a big reason why this
defense is playing well. I think that this improved defense
(16:22):
is here to stay. I think that, of course, the
Ravens could play some teams here down the stretch and
into the playoffs that are explosive offenses that are going
to be tough to stop the way that they they're not.
They're gonna be tough to control the game the way
they did against the Giants. But I think that this
defense has turned a corner and it's going to be
playing the big plays and the communication lapses I think
that we saw earlier in the year. I think those
(16:44):
are done well.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And let's just I mean, sure, yeah, the Giants were
down to their third string quarterback, you know, and Tommy
Depto even left the game of the concussion, and so
not pretending that the Giants offense is one of the
best in the league. But the Eagles offense is yeah,
and the Chargers offense is pretty during good Steelers offense
(17:05):
has been really hot at times this year, for sure,
And those are the other three games in that four
game streak.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That you're talking about for this defense.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So like, I don't think you can just say, well,
it was the Giants defense has been playing good against
some good offenses. Yeah, And so yeah, I do think
that this defense is here to stay.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Again.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
They've got another test here coming up with the Steelers.
Who now are they going to have George Pickens. That's
a question, that's a big question mark in this game.
But they will be tested, and I think I expect
that this Ravens defense will continue to play at at
a high level. Well.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
One of the guys who's playing well and who has
seen his snaps increase, especially over the course of the
last month is the rookie first round pick Nate Wagans. Yeah,
and the scouting report of him coming out of the
drafts was this guy is a natural cover corner, sticky
and coverage. He's the Ravens said on draft weekend they
felt like he was the best pure cover corner draft
and we're seeing that, and he matched up against Lak Neighbors,
(18:03):
who was first round pick for the Giants, and didn't
give up anything.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean, according to Pro Football Focus, there are
four targets. Gave up one catch for nine yards. You
go back and look at what that catch was. It
was a wide receiver bubble screen. Yeah, you know where
Nate had ten yards of cushion on him. So it's
not like when it was one on one Neighbors did
the old put them in a box and give them
the double thumbs down.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It was lockdown.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And in particular three shots from the goal line, three
end zone shots, two of which were actually thrown. Neighbors
didn't catch any of them, and Wiggins had really tight
coverage on a couple of fades really and then just
had such a good coverage set on a third attempt.
But it was clearly a rollout attempt for Neighbors and
(18:48):
he just had to go the quarterback had to go
somewhere else. And so I thought that those three plays,
in particular on the goal line were a real confidence
booster for Nate Wiggins, and to see him do it
against I mean, Molik Nighbors is the most talented rookie
wide receiver in the league.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Guy's been a monster. He is really good.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, and I thought for Wiggins to do that, that
really said something to me.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Well, you could see Wiggans and meant something to him too.
He was drawn a little bit at Neighbors and some
of the New York fans there. And he plays with edge,
he plays with confidence, and he's not immune to trash talk.
That certainly is something that's part of his game.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
In the week leading up to the game, you know,
I asked him about that matchup and he said, yeah, yeah,
we'll see, Like I'm ready for that one.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You know, he has that confidence about him.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
He's not going to back down against anybody, you know,
no matter what they've done previously. Nate Wiggins thinks I
can cover anybody, and so we're seeing that.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, and I think he's just going to continue to
be a huge piece of this defense. Another interesting note
from this game defense wise, is that the Ravens made
a change and we've seen this kind of start, but
it was accelerated a little bit in this game at
inside linebacker and they really w with Malik Harrison and
Chris Board next to Roquan Smith instead of Trenton Simpson
(20:06):
and Trenton ended up playing later in the game, but
more in.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
The fourth quarter. Some coverede snaps. I think it was
seven covers.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, But like he was a guy coming into the
year who was playing almost all the snaps at the
very at the outset, and so he's been replaced right
now for the time being. John Harriwall talked about that
and he said it's kind of a reset for him,
is to take a chance to take a deep breath.
Trenton is men. That guy plays hard, he wants it,
he works hard, so he does all those things right.
I think it's I think it's just been a learning
(20:35):
curve for him. He's a young player that steps into
the lineup and you think that it's going to be
easy because Okay, you're playing next to Roquan and just
go fly around and make tackles. Well, there's a lot
going on there in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It moves fast.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
It moves fast. It's a tough assignment.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, it's it's tough for any rookie inside linebacker. Well,
he's not a rookie, but essentially he is. I mean,
he barely played last year. He barely played last year.
So essentially he's a rookie and you know he's had
it from a film, but on the field, yeah, it's
his first time. And I mean we saw it with
Patrick Queen, who was a first round pick. Yeah, we
saw him have his struggles and there were times when
(21:10):
he had his snaps decreased yep, dramatically even, And you know,
I remember the stories around that time and it was like,
all right, you know, let's let Josh Binds come in,
a veteran who's seen it all, done it all is.
Can we know he's going to play at a solid level,
you know, as he has athletic and and all that. No,
the ceiling is higher with this younger guy. But there's
(21:32):
something to be said for experience, especially at that position,
seeing it all and knowing what's going on in front
of you, trusting your eyes, trusting your instincts, and that's
an important part of an inside linebaker's job. And I
think that Trenton it's you know, it's just it's a
tough assignment. So I think that Trentonill is going to
be a good player in this league.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I really do. I Mean, he's got.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
All the athleticism in the world that you want. He
has the perfect attitude. That dude works hard, he cares,
he's gonna he's going to put pour everything into it,
and he's going to get there. It's just right now
the Ravens are at a spot where you know they
needed a little higher, better, a little more consistent play
there next to Roquan Smith.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I don't know exactly what all was going on. It's
you can try to put your healself in the head
of a player or whatever, and that's and that's difficult.
But I know at times it felt like, going back
to the Patrick Queen example, that there were times early
in his career where it felt like he was thinking
a little too much out there just not playing, and
then once the light kind of came off for him
and he just felt like he was playing and reacting.
It really seemed like his game went to another level.
(22:32):
I think it's somewhat similar to Trenton. And of course,
when you're a young player and you're out there thinking
about all that's happening in front of you, and you're
trying to diagnose and you're trying to make sure that
you're in the right spot, there's just a lot that's
happening and a lot to process. And he's so athletic
and so gifted, and but it's there's a lot of
things that are that are playing out in front of
you that you need to consider. And so I think
(22:53):
that that could be part of what's happening there.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And how much does that put more on roque Smith's plate?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Right? Does he feel like he has to kind of
make up for some of that?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And you know, I think that we've seen since the
Ravens have made these changes to give him Aleak and
and Chris Board more time, I think we've seen Roquan
also play better.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
You know, he was the Ravens highest.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Graded defender from Pro Football Focus in this game against
the Giants, And so I think it's two part kind
of solution there.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Well, the other part, too is if you go back
a couple of games, ro Quwand Smith hurt his hamstring
against the Steelers the first time they played, left that game,
and then against the Chargers, Malie Harrison steps into the
lineup and Malik Harrison played great. He had an awesome
game against them, love the team and tackles, And I
don't know if basically that performance earned him more snaps
in the coach's eyes. I'm sure that probably helped, didn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, he was like, you play well, you get more opportunities.
Sean Harball has been pretty clear about that over his tenure.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And so it's sort of like, oh, you know what,
maybe maybe you should give hm Alik a little bit
more run here because he's playing really well. And here's
a veteran player. He knows where to be and he's
physical of course, but like and so like he's played
well too. Yeah, like in a strange way that like
that that one game absence from Roquand gave Malik and
Chris Board more of an opportunity. They seized it, and
(24:08):
now it's helping the defense overall.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, gave the Ravens some more insight. Yeah, into that
whole situation. The meritocracy yearn what you get and the
leek Harrison and Chris Board earned it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
And then the last point that I have from this
game is Roger Rosegarten just continues to I.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Should have said you get what you earn, right, not
you earn what you get right? Yeah? Or does it
work both ways? Out at whatever? Pushed another saying you've
never for the course.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You've never hit one of those sayings you scroll them up,
So that's just part of how it goes. But the
last one I have on going to the offensive side
of the ball sticking with a rookie that we talked
about is Roger Rosegarten just continues to play. Well. Really,
this freaking class overall had a good game. I mean,
you have Javontes Walker first catch, touchdown, and Rashina Lee
(24:53):
gets his first carry, finishes eight carries, thirty.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Six yards four pop. Yeah, I thought he.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
He looked pretty good. And so you see these this
rookie class getting more and more action, which is which
was encouraging. I don't think that Tez and rashin a
Lee are going to be key pieces of the game
plan here down the stretch, but it's good to get
them action, right.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That was kind of the I thought a bit of
a false narrative coming out of this game, was like, oh,
you know, you're gonna need these guys down the stretch,
and so it's good to get them some action. Like
I don't really you know, they're not going to be
playing key roles here down the stretch and in the playoffs.
The Ravens have the wide receivers they need, They have
plenty of targets. They have the running backs, you know,
just Sill and Derek Henry going to lead the way.
(25:33):
But I think that it's just good to get those
guys snaps for their careers. Yeah moving forward, like those
are just valuable game reps and sure, yes, if pressed
into action down the stretch, it's great to get get
them some snaps. I think that was kind of the
hope going into this Giants game was, you know, do
you build a big enough.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Lead where you can get some of these reserves some snaps.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It was good.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Now want to rest and rest some of your starters,
give them a little time off with three games in
eleven days.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, it's good on multiple fronts. So well, the young
guy who is going to be really important and it
is going to be a huge piece of the game
plan is Roger Rosegarten going back to him as he's
starting right tackle. He just just played well this year.
He stepped into that starting job and he's doing it
at a high level. I know you tracked down the
stat and looking at Pro Football Focus of all the
tackles drafted in the first two rounds and there were
(26:17):
twelve of them. Rose Garten went at the end of
the second round. He's got the second best grade according
to Pro Football Focus, of any of those guys. The
only one ahead of him is Joe Alt from the Chargers,
who was a fifth overall pick. Yeah, so that's saying
something about Rosegarten right there.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, he's playing at a really high level.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And it's been the past four games, specifically in pass protection.
And that started with the Steelers and TJ. Watt, which
was the marquee assignment for him, obviously, and he played
well in that game.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
TJ.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Watt, despite the Steelers win, did not wreck that game
at all. And you know, Roger, if TJ. Watt plays
now he's dealing with an ankle injury, it remains to
be seen. Coach Mike Tomlins said that he's up a
mystic that TJ.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Watte will play.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
We've gosh, we've seen this movie a thousand times, right, Oh, TJ. Watt. Look,
if I'm a bet man, I'm betting TJ. Watt's gonna
be out on that field. But for Roger that's when
it started. And really the past four weeks he's given
up two pressures over those four games. According to Pro
Football Focus, that's pretty darn good. And now we've also
(27:25):
seen the past three games he's been blocking run blocking
at a higher level, and so yeah, look, the it
says something that for a rookie right tackle, you go
into the game, you're like, yeah, I know what I'm
gonna get from Roger, Like I feel totally comfortable there,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Like that says something alone.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, Well, if you go back to the draft and
there was how much signed did we spend talking about
first round tackle targets for the Raves and they ended
up going with Nate Wagan, So we just talked about
very happy with him. And then you get the tackle
in the second round and you might have got you
might have got just as good of a player at
the end of the second round and you could have
gotten in the first round.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Looking like a big win, it's looking like a big
win for Eric to coost Like.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
It's good from a value standpoint, and it's good from
the team needed him to step in their standpoint, and
that's really really important.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Just looking at the film. I mean, Roger we've known
for a while, is a very athletic I really like
how he mixes up his pass sets. Sometimes he'll do
his whole like jump on him quickly, you know, come
out almost as if he's run blocking, and then close
that gap really fast, and you see his ability to
mirror very well. I just he looks very comfortable out
(28:34):
there to me right now, when you watch him on film,
he just knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, totally. Now, the last point I want to hit
is special teams. It was much better in this game.
And the Ravens Special teams unit has got too many
penalties this year and not played up to the level
consistently that we're used to seeing from the special teams
here in Baltimore. But they look good turn game coverage,
game kicking, game, everything looked good across the board, and
(28:58):
that was a that was a really good sign for
the special team sheet.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, I agree. I think that.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
You know, we've talked to Chris Horton about this and
he said, part of it is that we have young players,
a lot of young players playing in different spots on
special teams. Obviously, every team was adjusting to the new
kickoff dynamic kickoff rules, and also the Ravens signed Deontay
Hardy to be their return and he's barely played this year,
so that loss, you know, that hurt a little bit.
(29:27):
And so but I think that the Ravens hopefully this
Giants game, it was a turn in the corner kind
of moment for them. They had their longest kickoff return
and longest punt returns of the season. I thought that
kickoff wise, Justice Hilberg a fifty nine yarder on the
first play of the game, and really good blocking from
Rashine Ali. He was kind of the lead block guiding
(29:47):
him through that gap. Good block from Tyler Willace on
that and Chris Board also to kind of pave the way.
And then Justice is just awesome. I just I'll take
the ball in Justice's hand almost every time. He's just
a good player, and he hit it hard. And then
I thought Desmond King. You know, obviously Tyler Wallace had
a little bit of struggles in that Eagles game. Put
(30:09):
two balls on the ground, per cover both, but not
what you want to see, you know, wasn't fielding balls
that he should have come up and caught. And so
the Ravens made the switch to Desmond King. He's a
veteran returner, done it a lot over his career, and
you saw it in this game, just the confidence that
he has catching the ball because on his on his
strong punt return, I think it was a twenty one yarder.
(30:30):
He came up and that was a short punt that
and that thing was blowing around. I mean that thing
was a curveball and he came up, caught it on
the run, still made a few tacklers miss and got
up field for a very nice game. So I thought
that you just see the difference there. Here's a guy
who's done it a lot, whereas Tyler Wallace is a
much younger player in his return career.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well, John Harbloo does say that the plan moving forward,
at least for this game, is going to be that
Desmond King will remain as a punt returner. He's currently
on the practice score, so the Ravens could continue to
elevate him as a game day elevation or at some
point they can move him to the fifty three men roster,
but he's going to be the pump returner for this
game against the Steelers, and he again he did look
good doing it. Another interesting note was that they did
(31:13):
get some reps for Jordan Stout on kickoff, and of
course Justin Tucker's been kicking off here forever, and so
they gave Stout some reps there in the second half.
He can just boom it out of the back of
the end zone. He did that in college. He was
a kickoff and he did both punts and kicks in college.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
He did it all.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, he did it all. So he's familiar with that.
But that is another option. He's got a big leg,
and so obviously Justin's had challenges this year in the
field goal kicking game, but brings Stout into the mix,
there is another option for you know, if they want
to just have somebody that can boom it out of
the back at the end zone.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think there's no harm.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, you know, you save one kick on Justin Tucker's
leg and yeah, and you know, if you're basically just
like we want to touch back here. Justin Tucker's great
at at pinpoint offs. He can place the ball really well,
I think, probably better than Jordan Stout can. But if
your only intention is let's just boom it out of
(32:07):
the back of the end zone, why not just let
Jordan Stout pound away at it.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, And he again he didn't call it, but he
hasn't done in the pros yet, so this is just
to get him some game action to see how he
does there. Yep, totally so again, Raven's welcome to Steelers
of Town. This week, we are going to have a
player interview between now and then, so stay tuned for
that over the course of the next couple of days.
As always, you can email us at the lounge at
Ravens dot NFL dot net. Thank you so much for
listening and we will be back with you again soon
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