April 14, 2025 • 32 mins
ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. joins team insiders Ryan Mink and Garrett Downing to break down why he loves Georgia safety Malaki Starks, which top pass rusher suits Baltimore best, his preferred defensive tackle prospect, Day 3 wide receiver prospects and much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome into Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Ink here
with Garrett Downing and we are thrilled to sit down
with ESPN's Mel kiper Junior, the godfather of the mock
draft and draft analysis. And nobody knows the Ravens better
than Mel, especially what they're doing in the draft. So
thank you for joining us. Mel, especially it's in a
(00:25):
marathon for you today. How how many hours straight today
have you been talking about the draft?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Since eight o'clock this morning? I think I started and
then we you know, it's been like one thing after
that because we taked a lot of shows today, you
Fiel Yays, Jordan Reed and Matt Miller and myself with
Kevin the Gandhi and then I went right into a
different podcast at a media call with you, Ryan, you're
part of it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I got a question, So I appreciate the bonus time here. Mel.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, you call me anytime. Youn't have to worry about
the media. Call call me anything. I mean, call for
an hour. But I try to do that because that's
obviously because there's just not enough time to talk to
everybody you would want to a lot of those guys,
as you know, Ryan are all good friends and I
have known them for years, so that gives us. Lily
Balloon gives us that opportunity to do that. So through Lily,
it's a well, we're able to make that work. So
it's a lot of fun. But now tomorrow morning's start
up again. We got our big draft meeting tomorrow. They're
(01:09):
all on seven thirty tomorrow morning. We go to around
one in the afternoon and that's our big pre draft.
We used to do that today before the draft. Now
we do it, you know, a couple of weeks before
the draft.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, Well, mel So, you know, this team has
been knocking on the door here for a while of
getting to that Super Bowl and winning another championship. In
your opinion, how do they use the draft to get
over the hump? Like if you're ranking your positions of
need and you say, man, they could use a first
round pick to invest in this position group and that
that could help them get over the hump. Where do
(01:40):
you see that?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah? I look at that, you know. Is it a safety?
Is it a pass rusher? Yeah? I always want to
close out games. I'm bigging out. This is what the
NFL is these days. It's the end of the half.
They all talk about, we're going to get the ball
to start the second half. We're going to score at
the end of the first half. We're gonna get it
right back to start the second half, and boy, we're
gonna be able to come back or we're going to
put you behind it. We're really in trouble. You're going
to be We're going to a bunch of ten seventeen
(02:01):
points behind in a blink. So to me, closing out
the first half, closing out the second half, getting into
as every game in the NFL, teams coming to midway
through the fourth quarter, late in the fourth quarter, is
that one drive where two drives are going to determine
your fate. So can you close it out and to
be able to get after the quarterback is so critical.
And to me, you can never have enough good pass rushers.
(02:21):
I mean o Way was drafted a few years after
out of any sacks coming out of Penn State that year.
We got a kid Shamar start this year coming out
of Texas A and m as one and a half
sacks the last three years each year and then the
last three years the final seven games of each year.
He doesn't have a sack, but he's going to probably
go in the first round, right, So there's a lot
of intriguing guys like that. But to answer your question,
pass Rusher would be front and center for me in
(02:43):
a safety like maybe a Malachi Starks from Georgia.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Right, Well, you mentioned Malachi Starks and in the latest
mock that's who you have the Ravens taking in the
first round number twenty seven. And Ryan is a big
fan of Malachi Starks, lying too, I mean I think
he fits this team in a lot of different ways. Well,
what do you like about him and why do you
think he could be a good fit for this defense.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I love guys that have great football iq I did.
Those are smart football players. It was reversatile football players,
but just ballers and Malachi starts to me this past
year they moved him around. I mean, when you just
focus on one spot in one role, hees he can
wear a lot of hats, There's no doubt about that.
But the range he shows, the ability of the tackling ability,
(03:21):
which some people questioned. This year. He didn't have the
best year he could have had. He did not have
the year he had two years ago. But you know,
he didn't have the interception told he had the great
interception against Clemson, he didn't have that. So his career
total would have been a lot higher had he had
more opportunities this year. But yeah, they were moving him around.
So at the end of the day, Malachi starts to me,
you have to go back to twenty twenty three and
if you did it going into the year, guys, I
(03:42):
had him as the seventh right best player in the draft,
and I always try to go back to that. I
always try to go back to early August, mid August,
when there was ratings boards start to come out and
become formulated, and I finalized my opinions going into the year.
Malachi Starks was right there and was, like I say,
one of the top six, seven, eight best players in
this draft. So when you start talking about him in
the late twenties where the Ravens are picking, we talked
(04:03):
about value in the draft. How do you get value.
You get value by a guy being injured, banged up
and prevented him from playing to the level of his talent,
or he was misused. Pound around him wasn't the same.
For whatever reason, it just didn't click. It just didn't work.
To the level it did the previous year. Then Malachi
Starks case, that was what happened. So now you can
benefit from that. You don't get great value picks because
(04:23):
the guy played great. You get great value picked because
there's a question something went awry, whether it was injury,
not playing up to the level expected, whatever. And so
for Malachi Starts that he's there at the end of
the first round, I'll forget pass Rusher. I would take
Malachai Starts well.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Well, the other thing too on safety. So there's kind
of two guys that really stand out in that first round.
It's Malachi Starts and Nicki Men Warry out of South
Carolina and Ema war is one of those guys. When
we were talking after the combine, it's like, oh, he's
going to be gone because he's just got these size
speeded tangibles.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
And he actually talked to.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
The combine about how to be scary for the NFL
of him and Kyle Hamilton were on the same defense.
So I'm curious, like for you, when you look at Warri,
does he fit well or or is he too much
of the mold to Kyle Hamilton. And in one hand
you can say you can't have him too many. Kyle
Hamilton is a great player, but how would those two
players work in tandem.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I've asked people in the leg about that. He said, Hey,
have them both, use them different ways, put them both
on that defense, and good luck. He's not going to
be there, I don't think. And I'm I'm kind of
stubborn with this stuff if I lock into it. And
I love Malachi Starks, so I kept him as my
number one safety. You could very easily make a case
for Eemond Warry. It depends what you're looking for. Emon
Warri is a freakish talent. Yeah, he's not Kyle Hamilton.
(05:32):
He's not built that way. He's faster on a straight line,
but he doesn't have the agility, quickness that I think
that that Kyle has in the versatility of Kyle has.
Even Warre is a heck of a talent, and he's
going to go I think Tampa Bay, Cincinnati. There's gonna
be plenty of teams in that, you know, middle of
the first round area, even before the Ravens pick that
he could come off the board. Now we will allow
Malaki to get maybe down into that general range where
(05:53):
Baltimore's picking but for Eemon Warre and then you got
Kevin Winston Junior could out of Penn State, who unfortunately
was hurt as many players, I think the theme of
this draft, unfortunately, is a lot of injured players that
either couldn't finish out the year, got hurt early, or
got hurt throwing the process, or couldn't go through the process.
So he's one of those guys. And I'm pretty high
on Kevin Winston Junior, the safety out of Pench. The
(06:14):
same thing with Xavier Wats who at thirteen interceptions over
the last two years at Notre Dame.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, well you mentioned Ed Rusher's mill, and you know
Shamar Stewart was a player that after the combine everybody
had him going in like the top fifteen. And now
as it tends to happen, it kind of things settle
a little bit more. And as you mentioned, obviously not
a lot of production in college sack production. The Ravens
have been through this so that Dafioway they used the
first round pick on him. Do you think they would
(06:41):
do that again or do you think that would make
them a little bit gun shy maybe to take him,
even though Oway is he's developed he was a you know,
double digit sack guy this year.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I do not think they would take Shamar start. To
answer your question, Ryan, no, I don't think Shamar Stort
will be a raven just because of the fact that
when you watch him, I didn't see the disruptive plays.
I didn't see him beating a guy initially that he
should have. I called him AOG. I kind of coined
that phrase. You know what stands for right, another occupation guy,
and that's AOG. So all the guy, most of the
(07:13):
guys you play against in college, I call him AOG.
And if you can't beat them, you're playing against the
best in the world. When you get to the NFL.
Want to play by play basis, even if it's a backup.
These are the best in the world playing in the NFL.
These are aog's okay, So you can't beat them all
of a sudden, that's gonna what's going to click in
the NFL. Even so, to answer your question, I think
Shamar Stort, somebody, a defensive line coach will probably fight
(07:36):
for him, say I can take him, I can make him.
If you're taking him in the first round, and you
better be thinking ten to twelve sacks a year. That's
what I always Oh wait, finally got to that point
this year. Right, you got to be thinking first round
pass rusher. I got to be getting double digit sacks
at this guy. If I can't get that, am I
gonna take him? Look at Trey Hendrickson, what's he get
in seventeen a year he was with a third round
(07:56):
draft choice. So now the Neil Hunter didn't have many
sacks of Doell Issues got ninety nine career sacks. Now
he was with a fourth round pick. So you have
had outliers that have not had great sack production in
college that have gone on to do it with their outliers.
And Bill Poeian told me and screamed at me, you melt,
you don't draft outliers. Okay, if we have a range
on a wide nine, it says a wide nine has
(08:18):
got to be four to six, y five or better.
We can't draft the guy at four seven to one
for a forty can't do it. So you got what's
the take guys to be able to do You got
a discipline. Part of being a great valueur is being
disciplined in your approach and not letting something happen to say, well,
I'm going to make an exception to the rule. I'm
gonna do something away from what I normally would do,
(08:38):
and I'm gonna take a shot on this guy. Well,
I guess you could do it once in a while.
Can't make a live in doing that. So if teams
that say, hey, production the final seven games of the
last three years of Texas A and M, he did
not record a sack. That's the final seven games of
three straight years, one and a half, three years ago,
one and a half, two years ago, one and a half.
This year, that's four and a half sacks in his career.
(09:00):
Theirs guy's had four and a ff sacks in a
game this year. Okay, So to me, I couldn't do
it myself. He's graded at a point where I have
him on the board that twenty five to twenty eight
area that I know is gonna go higher. And I've
always believe you're picking where the raves are you gonna got.
You gotta get a guy on your board. It's in
the top fifteen. It's gonna work that way. You're gonna
(09:21):
get a guy's on your board. One of the best
best team players in this draft. So it's not gonna
be Shamar Stewart if you for me, No, Now, somebody
else gonna take Chamar. I think they will, because I
think somebody, a defensive line coach is gonna look at
that talent. They're gonna find some plays. You can always,
you know, cherry pick plays. You can always do it.
I can find I can find any player and find
you good plays and bad plays, and I'll convince you
(09:42):
he's good. I can convince you he's bad. So if
you can find those plays with Shamarsh, when you can,
a defensive line coach can say I can make that
a consistent thing. And somebody's gonna believe in that D
line coaching off or that GM or that whatever it
is that makes that determination. Somebody's gonna take that kid
and end. He's a good test case. I always say
these are good test cases. Do you have guys like
Oh Way, you have guys like Hunter, you know that
(10:03):
don't have the great sack production. But what do they
do once you're in the NFL? Do they flourish? Do
they prosper?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
We'll see now, now, mel a guy who kind of
screams Raven to me is Michael Williams of Georgia. And
here's the guy who's big, physical, beats up tight ends,
he can set the edge, He's got athletic ability to
rush the passer. But the injury, the ankle injury this
past season really kind of limited him and couldn't result
(10:29):
in him sliding. What do you think of Michael Williams.
Is he a player if he's there at twenty seven
that the Ravens turned the card in.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
That's depend upon if he's there, would they turn the
card in? Maybe? Yeah. I would have loved to seeing
him go through the year healthy. He wasn't with the ankle. Yeah,
do you see the burst? Do you see the explosiveness?
You know? To me, he's got to develop some more
pass rush moves. He's great against the run, He's great
at the point, he can steal the edge, you can
do all those things. He hustles, he plays hard, he
(10:58):
looks the part from the size standpoint out there on
that football field. I thought one of the year, he
or James Pierce Junior may be in line to be
one of the top picks in the draft, and neither
because James Pierce Jr. Didn'troduced to the level expected and MIKEL.
Williams had the injury. Now, what he played through I
give him credit for because Kirby Smart said it. A
lot of kids would shut it down. He didn't. He
(11:19):
played through that injury and he was out there gutting
it out knowing he wasn't one hundred percent or even
close to it. So give him total credit for that.
But you know he's a border line, you know, I'd
say twenties seventeen, Cincinnati into the late first That's where
I have him going right now. So would it be
automatic to answer your question, guys that it would be
Mikel Williams based on grade. Where's Mike Greens? Mike Green
(11:41):
around at that point coming out of Marshall because he
would be a guy that would have to be in
the in the discussion if he were around. I don't
think he will be. I got anyone to Atlanta, but
say a Mike Greens there. Give you another name. Donovan
Azeraku from Boston College is an edge rusher. You know,
doesn't play the run great like Mikel Williamsbody's a better
natural pass rusher. Ol Femio from UCLA is a heck
(12:02):
of a football player. He's gotten more publicity now as
we moved through the process, and I think, you know,
he should have gotten this publicity during the year because
he had a great season at UCLA. And by the way,
his teammate Carson Swessinger phenomenal player. He's in the late
first round next at worse early second. So both those
UCLA kids haven't been discussed much at all. Chuestioninger has
(12:22):
gotten more publicity than Oladejo. I had Oladjo in the
mock first round, a couple in mock two point oh.
I think people are laughing at it. Where'd you get
that name? Nobody? Well, guess what people are now talking
about ol the fame of the Oladejo as maybe a
late one early too, so he's I haven't gon to
Tennessee in the early second. This kid after moving off
ball to outside, just like happening with Abdull Carter Retaboc.
(12:43):
And he tested well and he's got lane and I'm
big into lane. So you know those two UCLA kids,
Schwestinger and and Ola Dejo, keep an eye on them
as well.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Wait, well you mentioned Swessinger and the report came out
this week that he was visiting the Ravens and and
could he be a fit there next to Roquan Smith
and having this those two guys kind of in the
middle of the defense there. What's your take on the
possibility of the Ravens using that inside using a first
round pick on an inside linebacker, whether him or if
it's Shoot Campbell, if he were to fall to the
Ravens like an inside linebacker first round pick, would that
(13:15):
make sense for this defense?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, do you think about the Ravens. It wasn't Ray
Lewis right right, It was Patrick Queen, right, Patrick Queen
remember that year. Remember Murray was coming out that same year.
They were both in the mix. Burray went to the Chargers,
worked that better with Patrick Queen here in Baltimore, made
the big deal to get ro Kwan Smith drafted. Simpson.
Simpson was a former running back member. He's just still
still developing the instincts and just the feel for the position. Certainly,
(13:40):
now we've got a new linebacker coach, new inside linebacker
coach as well, with the Ravens coming in. Schwessinger this
year played at an elite level. Now he was a
former walk on. He didn't do it even at the
start of the season. Took him with three games in
and he was all over the field. When you watch you,
Cla said, I had to look who is that guy?
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Guy?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Who is he? Because he wasn't on the list of
guys to be watching that closely, but he started popping
in every game, double digit sacked, impactful. Oladeja was a
guy I was watching. But I'm watching Schwettinger and watching
him again. All of a sudden, he's flying to the football,
He's showing great range, he's showing versatility, He's making play
after play after play. So yeah, to answer your question,
(14:20):
he would have to be in the mix for the
kind of year he had. I mean, I don't like
forty one and a half vertical, I believe.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Now I want to back up real quick to Ezraku
that you mentioned, because you said of that cluster you
really like Donovan Ezerraku from Boston College. Do you think
he's too small to be a raven like they typically
go for those bigger outside linebackers.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
They do, and he's spent two forty seven six and
a half forty seven. But one thing he's got, guys,
and you gotta have it when you're outside. He's got
great length. Yeah, okay, when you and I'm big into
long arms at every position. Now quarterback doesn't matter, right,
but you got to have length. And when the offensive line,
d line, linebacker, secondary, wide receiver, I want I love Wane.
That's not the end all be all, but the longer
(15:02):
the better. In some positions it is the end all
be all. So certainly there that comes into play. The
bend as well. Spoke to an offensive line coach tight
end coach this week. The bend the ability to really
wreak havoc and get into the mind of the tackle
you're going up against. If you had that, I call
it like the speed skaters, right, the the ability of
(15:23):
being able to have that bend. They have it. And
as Iraku has that and the closing ability. Once you
said can you close like a cat? He can do that.
Then do you have the attitude the approach to be
just a play like a raven guy? As Iraku has that,
So yes, while he is You're not two hundred and
sixty five pounds, you know he's not that kind of guy.
He's two forty seven. He's not sixty four sixty five either.
(15:45):
He plays like a raven. Now is that you know
you are going to sacrifice a little in the run game, yes,
you will. Could he get swallowed up? We'd be handled
in the run game by steal the edge. We do
all those things. That's the mystery moving forward to the NFL.
He's a great kid. They raved about him at BOSS
in college, and the production matched the talent. And when
the production matches the talent, you got something. That's why
I was surprised. Even during the year, it's always talking about, Hey,
(16:08):
Mike Green had a great year at Marshall. No touch
the talent. The production was there, but we're all talking
about Pierce. We're talking about mikel Williams and all these
other How about Donovan Ezraku. You know he's getting done.
He went to the Senior Bowl and he was He
had a tough time blocking him down there. So yes,
I do think he's in the mix for the late
first round. So I think he'll be a raven. I'm
with you on that. Maybe not, but somebody's going to
(16:28):
take him where it's late first there's going to be
no worse than the early second round.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, Elvis Damerville was a shorter pass usher. He had
a lot of success here in Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
On the All time Greats and Jonathan Ogden couldn't Black
Dwyke Treeneyer Fredy with that size made it tough on
those taller offensive tackles. So again, I think that's gonna
work in Donovan Ezraku's favor as well because his bend
and I'll tell you what he's got to want to
as well, and then he's got the long arms for
his size. All bodes well for this kid being the
double digit SAT guy in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So I want to talk about defensive linemen is that's
certainly a position of need for the Ravens to get
more depth there. And hey, they were interested in reportedly
in bringing back Kalayis Campbell. Is there. I know Khalayis
Campbell's a freak in that defensive penetrating, defensive end slash
d tackle mold that you feel like will be a
good fit here in Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'll tell you the guy, you know, Derek Harmon's interesting.
You know, Derek Harmon Oregon is a guy I have
going to Pittsburgh because I think he could learn from
Cameron Hayward. I love what he did at Oregon this
year at Michigan State. He was just okay, but he
took his game to another level. He tested great. He's
got length, and he's got a great attitude and a
great approach. So I like kids that want to work
hard and they're all about being professional and being That's
(17:38):
how you end up playing in your late thirties at
that position. Kalaias Campbell, by the way, he wasn't a
first round pick. He was a second round pick. Cam
Hayward was in the top ten to fifteen pick in
the first round. Was in the first round. He didn't
go top ten to fifteen. So these are guys were
kind of pushed down a little bit. And look what
happened here they are playing you know when you thought
there's no way, and Miami won him back. Now he's
back in Arizona. Kalaias Campbell, Right, Cam Hayward's got another
(18:00):
deal going where he's going to be there, And here's
the kid could learn from him there.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
The interesting guy too is water Nolan from Old Miss Yeah,
what do you do? Where does he fit into a
defensive line scheme. I think he's schemed, versatile. I know
he's disruptive. I know he plays hard, and I know
he was ahead a heck of a year at Old
Miss after going to A and M as the number
one player come out of high school football. But I
think teams are a little bit kind I would say up,
but the figure trying to figure it out. I've heard
(18:24):
opinions all over the flight. Some think he could go
ten to eleven in the first round. I got him
in the early second because that's what you hear. Kind
of the buzz is late first, early second. But Walter
Nolan's a good football player, make no mistake about it.
When he's on a football field. What did the lake
great Al Davis say Sunday? It's all about Sunday playing
on Sundays. Just when baby play on Sunday and on Sunday,
(18:46):
Walter Nolan will show up and he'll play big for you.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Defensive line is one of those I guess needs for
the Ravens that maybe flies under the radar a little bit,
but would not surprise me if they addressed it early.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And you have Walter Nolan and Derek Harmon.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Who could make be there in the first But it
sounds like you've got Harmon ahead of him, that you
got the harm and ahead of those at the top
of the order there for those two guys that would
maybe make more sense.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
And be a better fit for a better fit.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, what's gonna really be interesting, guys, And it impacts
the Raves. I brought this up. What impacts even that
tapeless situation with the Harmon is where DoD should Door
Sanders go? Because we're sitting here in Baltimore. I'm a
Raven fan. You're all Raven fans love the Ravens. Right,
do we want Shador Sanders in Pittsburgh? I don't, okay,
because should Door is a winner and he will find
a way to get the ball to those receivers. This
(19:32):
notion you can't play in Pittsburgh. I your shauldre Well.
Brady played in New England. He didn't have the great
arm and didn't have any speak. Brady ran a five
two twenty four vertical. That's the worst vertical and the
worst forty of any quarterback I've ever evaluated. Okay, the
all time greatest quarterback, Johnny Unitas will always be number
one of my lists. I still have John Elway, as
you guys know, I love John Elway. We're up to
despite the fact they didn't come to Baltimore. I didn't
(19:55):
hold that against them. You talk about where we are
right now in terms of Shador Sanders. Could he be
there with the Pittsburgh Steelers pick at twenty one? Could
he fall in their lap? Ben Roethlisberger fell in their
lap after Rivers and Eli went early. Right, Look how
that worked out. Ben Roethlisberger fell in their lap. Well,
same thing happened with Shador Sanders. I don't think they'll
(20:15):
take Jackson Dart if Shador's gone. I'll been told not
for Jackson Dart because it may be a little too
much Kenny Pickett there right, not enough upside whatever you
want to talk about there. I don't think Tyler Shuck's
going that high either. Don't think it will be Jalen
Milroe necessarily, But Jalen Milroe's intriguing you. If he can
fix that accuracy, you got a special player. If he can't,
he'll just be a guy who had packages because he's
(20:36):
a great runner, and he'll never be a successful starting quarterback.
You got to roll the dice one Milroe that you
know he can be accurate. Something was not the latter
half of this season. Roally the last three quarters of
this past season.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
So if you're watching we're watching the draft on the
first night and you hear Shador Sanders going the top ten,
one of those teams takes him early, we're going to
get a big round of applause from you on the
ESPN desk there.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Well, I'll be very very statisfy that it's not going
to impact the Ravens negatively, and the Steelers won't get
the quarterback. I would think they would want to see
slide down that far. I don't have a problem with
Tyler Shuck going there. From have a problem with Jackson
Dark going there, would have a problem with Jalen Milroe
going there. But I don't want to see Shador in
the Pittsburgh Steeler uniform. And you know, and that could happen.
(21:18):
That'll be our worst nightmare. If that starts to happen.
Maybe somebody will try to jump ahead of them and
grab them. I don't know. I don't know what New
Orleans is going to do at nine. They could take them,
they could take Dart, they could not even take a quarterback. Okay,
there are some of the things they're not going to
go quarterback that that's not going to happen. I think
they could Kellen Moore hand picked this quarterback. If he
likes one of the two, take them. We'll see. Chador
(21:38):
is not probably gonna go to the Giants. We know
that now, right, he's not one anywhere past New Orleans.
Where's he going to go? Then you get into no
man's plan. If it's not the Steelers the Rams. Now
I keep hearing maybe the Rams won't take a quarterback. Well,
somebody else trade back in. Well, you know what happens
here Now, Pittsburgh doesn't get a court of Pittsburgh has
no two.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
The can they forfeit their first round pick too? That's
really the dreams scenary. They lose their first round pick.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Also, what they're gonna do, what they have they can't
do is try to moving up won't be now, you
can always give up picks next year, But to go
up from twenty one without the second round pick that
they traded the Seattle for DK Medcalf that they're a
little hamstrung there now because you normally give up to two,
you move up, you throw another. You know, you have
to go about to Jimmy Johnson's chart. Right, But now
(22:23):
all of a sudden with No. Two. What do they
think are they gonna sit at twenty one? Is somebody
else like the Giants? If they don't, they don't, They're
not gonna take sure. Do they feel they need to
go up and get Shador this Cleveland? Does somebody else
feel the need to go up and get Shador? Or
does he, like I say, just fall down to Pittsburgh.
That's going to be the story of the first round.
Aaron Rodgers started to slide and Green Bay just waited
(22:44):
it out.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Well and Lamar Jackson, how about Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Blumber Sias and guys ranked the third best player in
the draft. My first year at ESPN in nineteen eighty four,
they had three picks in the first round. Did not
take Boomer. They took him in the second round. The
third player on the board went in the second round.
Farb was fourteen went in the second round. Okay, it's
happened before, it can happen again. So there's a chance
that Shador could be there at twenty one.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Well, last one here for email before we let you leave.
One of my favorite things is I love always hearing
some guys that I've never heard of. I never you
know these guys I've never heard of, and so recently
talked with Steve Ashatti and John Harbaugh and they said
they were talking about wide receivers who are like late
round undrafted type guys, and they were like, hey, I
like him.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
You like him too.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
So who's the receiver they're talking about, mal Who's this
receiver that's going to go in the sixth seventh undrafted
range that we could be talking about here in Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Well, there's a couple guys. I got the list here.
I mean I went through this because the Blaine Taylor
and Abilene Christians one. Because we're actually doing a segment
on this coming up this week on ESPN, which is
all sleepers and guys down the line. And I look
at wide receivers and you want small college guys not mating,
and there's a lot of I call. I always had
a segment in my draft report which was major college sleepers,
because there is such a thing as a major college sleeper. Guys.
(23:56):
There's a good Juwan Newton, the Toledo very under the radar.
But Efton should the third of Eastern Washington. I like
the way he played this year. I like that kid
as a late round priority free agent. There's get Holden
Willis at Middle Tennessee State is a late rounder. Darius
Cooper of Tarleton State's another one. Blaine Taylor at Abilene
Christian Chandler bray Boy at Elon's another one that could
(24:18):
be the Gibson kid Darkansas Pine Bluff. So those are
guys from the smaller schools, but from the major schools
that are under the radar, Guys that I personally have
a better grade on than some people do. I'll give
you some of those names. There's a kid, Tory Horton
at Colorado State got hurt. Was playing really well, so
he got hurt. He could drop down to a point
in the draft where he becomes an interesting pick. DK
(24:40):
the kid at Florida was at Wisconsin, tested well. He
could be a gunner on special teams. He can be
help you in the punt return game as a third
fourth receiver. Watch out for him. Another kid I think
Jimmy Horn Junior at Colorado. Nice player and if he
gets pushed into Day three, he could be a good one.
I like what I saw Rock Taylor at Memphis. Nobody's
(25:01):
talking about him at all. Daniel Jackson at Minnesota as
another one was productive. There's a lot of those guys
that I look at in the later rounds from the
major college ranks. They're gonna slip through the cracks that
are gonna be, like I say, either late rounders or
priority free agents, but they're gonna have a chance to
play in the league. So I always wonder, where's the
where's the DK kid from Florida gonna come off the bords.
It's gonna be third round or it's gonna be fifth round.
(25:23):
If you can get him in the fifth round, you
got your second self a heck of a value pick.
Third round, maybe a little rich, right, but fifth round's
gonna so with George Young, late great George Young, Calvert
Hall's own right. George Young told me I got the
handwritten letters George used to used to write me when
he got the draft report. He said, now when you
buy is just as important as who you select. George
(25:45):
was big into the value. He was big in to
try to figure out if we get this kind of
fifth round, I like it a lot better than the
third or fourth round. So he was big into when
you buy it is just as important as who you selected.
I've taken that a little phrase throughout my career and
pen because it really is true. When you this guy
protects you against bus That's why you do this board,
(26:05):
because it protects you against reaching it. We'll protect you
against some guys who went earlier than they should have.
You take guys, you put those guys. Carl Peterson always said,
we go through this exercise for a reason. Guys, let's
stay true to our board. Let's not deviate from our board.
We do this for a reason, and it comes true.
It stands true that it's the test of time. It's
what's good, the test of time. We put that board
(26:28):
up for a reason. Just be disciplined in your approach
and stay true to your board.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
That sounds like Eric. That sounds like Eric exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
He's always he's a bargain hunter.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Well you gotta be. Hey, I loved it a few
years ago when Eric had all those fourth round picks.
I was loving it. The ESPN we're drafted a punter
stout right, We're getting everybody isaya l likely? You know,
Look I always I always used to do this when
I was you know, long before I started, I said,
always free seams, I put down the picks, why I
would move off of this pick. I'd end up with
fifteen draft picks. I kept trading down, and I've always
(26:58):
who could I get? I'd go through and I like,
do this little It's not like a fantasy draft, but
who I would have taken based on my grades, not
just air for the fact, but based on grades, and
then see how it all played out three years down
the road. Always tried to do that. And then, like
I said, Howie Roseman with the Eagles, Eric Tacosta with
the Ravens. Ya, let's sneed with the Rams. You know,
beach out in Kansas City. There's some great chance. But
(27:20):
I'll tell you what the Ravens have. Hey, you can
argue how Howie Roseman. Howie Roseman's gonna be a Hall
of Fame GM. Eric the Costa is going to be
right there with him.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Mel.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, thank you so much for taking the time as
always to our listeners. Go check out all mels coverage
on ESPN in his latest two round bock draft to
see who he has come to Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I don't hide my Ravens. Yeah, I have had dagon
what anybody says, I'm Ravens all the way I root
for the Ravens. I'm hoping the Ravens. I don't have
to hope Ravens will do well. When Dres say Eric
and his scouts, they do a great job. And Izzie
all those years was phenomenal. So you know this raven organization.
Steve Bashaddi leading away, couldn't be proud of those guys.
And like I said, Hey, this family, this whole family here,
(28:01):
this Polish Catholic family, the hyper family of Baltimore. We
love the Ravens. Go Ravens, and I really enjoyed it.
Guys had a great time.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Love it. Thank you Belle, Thank you Mel.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Welcome back into the lounge where you're coming to you
from the Sea Geek Studio. We also want to mention
our partners at Draft King Sportsbook. There an official sports
betting partner of the Baltimore Ravens Draft King Sportsbook.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
The Crown is yours. So it's always a highlight of
the year when we get a chance to talk to Mel.
He's one of our favorite guys.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
We've done this this interview with him on the pod
several times over the years and it's always, uh, it's
always a It's a favorite day of mine just to
get to talk to him.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
It's it's always great.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, he's a workhorse, you know. I mean, it's pretty funny.
He was holding a ESPN conference call with reporters before
he came on the podcast. I was like, I can't
get enough of Mel. I loved on to that too.
He was gracious enough to give you a question on
that as well.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
You and Mel just basically hung out all day today.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I wish that would be a dream day for me. Yeah,
so big thank you ta Mel for coming on the lounge.
And you know, I think some really great insight. He's
a Malachi Sarks guy. He really likes Malachi Starts Starks
and Donovanez, Roku the pass rusher from BC. You know,
there's those guys that are Mel guys, and hey, he
hit one of them.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Last year.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Roger Rosengarten was a Mel guy. He was really high
on him and the Ravens ended up taking him.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
So well.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
You you have said throughout this process leading up to
the draft that you feel like Malachi Starks is the
player who the Ravens will draft in the first round.
You're aligned with Mel kiper on that both of you
have have the Ravens taking him, and after talking with him,
does that make you feel I guess more confident in that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think the interesting thing is that Mel says, you know,
he didn't have as good a final season because he
was being moved around everywhere. You know, now the Ravens
like to move their safeties around. Maybe the player they
draft to put next to Kyle Hamilton doesn't move around.
Maybe that's more of a true free safety because Kyle
(29:54):
Hamilton has that versatility, right, But you know, I think
I think it's intriguing in that starts part of the
the good things about him is that he has that versatility.
But Mel saying the reason why he might slide to
the Ravens is because he didn't play as well with
that versatility.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's interesting the point that he makes in the whole
conversation around versatility and also value, Like if you're getting
a value there, there's a reason that a guy's gonna
be there at twenty seven and maybe it's positional value,
or maybe it's maybe it's he was injured, or maybe
he didn't play as well, But like that can that
can work to your benefit? And there's been plenty of
(30:33):
times over the years where that has worked to the
Ravens benefit. Like when KYLEA. Hamilton was there at fourteen.
A lot of people didn't think he was gonna get there,
but he was there, probably because he played safety and didn't.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Have the flexibility.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Thing is that question mark often leads.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
To yes, that's one of the questions and from a
value standpoint, so all that could lead to him being
there and if the Ravens end up, you know, the
pass rusher. We spent a lot of time talking dB
and pass rusher with Mel and like that to me,
if I'm I haven't locked it in yet, I know
you have. But I'm leaning secondary, like my gut instinct
(31:06):
right now is secondary in the first round. That could
be safety, that could be a corner, and then of
course you have the defensive front as well. It's interesting
a lot of defensive talk. I mean, we're really leaning
heavy on the defensive side here in the conversation for
what the Ravens are gonna do in the first round,
maybe in the first couple rounds. It just seems defense heavy.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah, I certainly that's what I expect to happen. You know,
there are some other spots. I think tight end, running back, receiver,
I think interior offensive line or tackle, guard, tackle. They're
gonna take some offensive players, but it's gonna be dominated
on the defensive sides.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Especially early.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, that's why I really see a lot of those
coming off.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
The board day three.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah, Like I would be really surprised at the Ravens
ended up. I mean, you could maybe talk yourself into
an offensive lineman maybe, but I would be surprised if
they address those other positions on the first two days.
So as always, we'd love to hear from you guys,
the listeners and the viewers. You can email us the
lounge at Ravens dot NFL dot net. Let us know
what question you have and let us know your thoughts
on the upcome the draft him Thanks again to mel
(32:01):
Kiper for joining us. You can watch his coverage all
throughout the draft and leading up to it on ESPN.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Thanks for watching. We'll talk to Vincent
Welcome into Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Ink here
with Garrett Downing and we are thrilled to sit down
with ESPN's Mel kiper Junior, the godfather of the mock
draft and draft analysis. And nobody knows the Ravens better
than Mel, especially what they're doing in the draft. So
thank you for joining us. Mel, especially it's in a
(00:25):
marathon for you today. How how many hours straight today
have you been talking about the draft?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Since eight o'clock this morning? I think I started and
then we you know, it's been like one thing after
that because we taked a lot of shows today, you
Fiel Yays, Jordan Reed and Matt Miller and myself with
Kevin the Gandhi and then I went right into a
different podcast at a media call with you, Ryan, you're
part of it.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I got a question, So I appreciate the bonus time here. Mel.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, you call me anytime. Youn't have to worry about
the media. Call call me anything. I mean, call for
an hour. But I try to do that because that's
obviously because there's just not enough time to talk to
everybody you would want to a lot of those guys,
as you know, Ryan are all good friends and I
have known them for years, so that gives us. Lily
Balloon gives us that opportunity to do that. So through Lily,
it's a well, we're able to make that work. So
it's a lot of fun. But now tomorrow morning's start
up again. We got our big draft meeting tomorrow. They're
(01:09):
all on seven thirty tomorrow morning. We go to around
one in the afternoon and that's our big pre draft.
We used to do that today before the draft. Now
we do it, you know, a couple of weeks before
the draft.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, Well, mel So, you know, this team has
been knocking on the door here for a while of
getting to that Super Bowl and winning another championship. In
your opinion, how do they use the draft to get
over the hump? Like if you're ranking your positions of
need and you say, man, they could use a first
round pick to invest in this position group and that
that could help them get over the hump. Where do
(01:40):
you see that?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah? I look at that, you know. Is it a safety?
Is it a pass rusher? Yeah? I always want to
close out games. I'm bigging out. This is what the
NFL is these days. It's the end of the half.
They all talk about, we're going to get the ball
to start the second half. We're going to score at
the end of the first half. We're gonna get it
right back to start the second half, and boy, we're
gonna be able to come back or we're going to
put you behind it. We're really in trouble. You're going
to be We're going to a bunch of ten seventeen
(02:01):
points behind in a blink. So to me, closing out
the first half, closing out the second half, getting into
as every game in the NFL, teams coming to midway
through the fourth quarter, late in the fourth quarter, is
that one drive where two drives are going to determine
your fate. So can you close it out and to
be able to get after the quarterback is so critical.
And to me, you can never have enough good pass rushers.
(02:21):
I mean o Way was drafted a few years after
out of any sacks coming out of Penn State that year.
We got a kid Shamar start this year coming out
of Texas A and m as one and a half
sacks the last three years each year and then the
last three years the final seven games of each year.
He doesn't have a sack, but he's going to probably
go in the first round, right, So there's a lot
of intriguing guys like that. But to answer your question,
pass Rusher would be front and center for me in
(02:43):
a safety like maybe a Malachi Starks from Georgia.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Right, Well, you mentioned Malachi Starks and in the latest
mock that's who you have the Ravens taking in the
first round number twenty seven. And Ryan is a big
fan of Malachi Starks, lying too, I mean I think
he fits this team in a lot of different ways. Well,
what do you like about him and why do you
think he could be a good fit for this defense.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I love guys that have great football iq I did.
Those are smart football players. It was reversatile football players,
but just ballers and Malachi starts to me this past
year they moved him around. I mean, when you just
focus on one spot in one role, hees he can
wear a lot of hats, There's no doubt about that.
But the range he shows, the ability of the tackling ability,
(03:21):
which some people questioned. This year. He didn't have the
best year he could have had. He did not have
the year he had two years ago. But you know,
he didn't have the interception told he had the great
interception against Clemson, he didn't have that. So his career
total would have been a lot higher had he had
more opportunities this year. But yeah, they were moving him around.
So at the end of the day, Malachi starts to me,
you have to go back to twenty twenty three and
if you did it going into the year, guys, I
(03:42):
had him as the seventh right best player in the draft,
and I always try to go back to that. I
always try to go back to early August, mid August,
when there was ratings boards start to come out and
become formulated, and I finalized my opinions going into the year.
Malachi Starks was right there and was, like I say,
one of the top six, seven, eight best players in
this draft. So when you start talking about him in
the late twenties where the Ravens are picking, we talked
(04:03):
about value in the draft. How do you get value.
You get value by a guy being injured, banged up
and prevented him from playing to the level of his talent,
or he was misused. Pound around him wasn't the same.
For whatever reason, it just didn't click. It just didn't work.
To the level it did the previous year. Then Malachi
Starks case, that was what happened. So now you can
benefit from that. You don't get great value picks because
(04:23):
the guy played great. You get great value picked because
there's a question something went awry, whether it was injury,
not playing up to the level expected, whatever. And so
for Malachi Starts that he's there at the end of
the first round, I'll forget pass Rusher. I would take
Malachai Starts well.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Well, the other thing too on safety. So there's kind
of two guys that really stand out in that first round.
It's Malachi Starts and Nicki Men Warry out of South
Carolina and Ema war is one of those guys. When
we were talking after the combine, it's like, oh, he's
going to be gone because he's just got these size
speeded tangibles.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
And he actually talked to.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
The combine about how to be scary for the NFL
of him and Kyle Hamilton were on the same defense.
So I'm curious, like for you, when you look at Warri,
does he fit well or or is he too much
of the mold to Kyle Hamilton. And in one hand
you can say you can't have him too many. Kyle
Hamilton is a great player, but how would those two
players work in tandem.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I've asked people in the leg about that. He said, Hey,
have them both, use them different ways, put them both
on that defense, and good luck. He's not going to
be there, I don't think. And I'm I'm kind of
stubborn with this stuff if I lock into it. And
I love Malachi Starks, so I kept him as my
number one safety. You could very easily make a case
for Eemond Warry. It depends what you're looking for. Emon
Warri is a freakish talent. Yeah, he's not Kyle Hamilton.
(05:32):
He's not built that way. He's faster on a straight line,
but he doesn't have the agility, quickness that I think
that that Kyle has in the versatility of Kyle has.
Even Warre is a heck of a talent, and he's
going to go I think Tampa Bay, Cincinnati. There's gonna
be plenty of teams in that, you know, middle of
the first round area, even before the Ravens pick that
he could come off the board. Now we will allow
Malaki to get maybe down into that general range where
(05:53):
Baltimore's picking but for Eemon Warre and then you got
Kevin Winston Junior could out of Penn State, who unfortunately
was hurt as many players, I think the theme of
this draft, unfortunately, is a lot of injured players that
either couldn't finish out the year, got hurt early, or
got hurt throwing the process, or couldn't go through the process.
So he's one of those guys. And I'm pretty high
on Kevin Winston Junior, the safety out of Pench. The
(06:14):
same thing with Xavier Wats who at thirteen interceptions over
the last two years at Notre Dame.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, well you mentioned Ed Rusher's mill, and you know
Shamar Stewart was a player that after the combine everybody
had him going in like the top fifteen. And now
as it tends to happen, it kind of things settle
a little bit more. And as you mentioned, obviously not
a lot of production in college sack production. The Ravens
have been through this so that Dafioway they used the
first round pick on him. Do you think they would
(06:41):
do that again or do you think that would make
them a little bit gun shy maybe to take him,
even though Oway is he's developed he was a you know,
double digit sack guy this year.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I do not think they would take Shamar start. To
answer your question, Ryan, no, I don't think Shamar Stort
will be a raven just because of the fact that
when you watch him, I didn't see the disruptive plays.
I didn't see him beating a guy initially that he
should have. I called him AOG. I kind of coined
that phrase. You know what stands for right, another occupation guy,
and that's AOG. So all the guy, most of the
(07:13):
guys you play against in college, I call him AOG.
And if you can't beat them, you're playing against the
best in the world. When you get to the NFL.
Want to play by play basis, even if it's a backup.
These are the best in the world playing in the NFL.
These are aog's okay, So you can't beat them all
of a sudden, that's gonna what's going to click in
the NFL. Even so, to answer your question, I think
Shamar Stort, somebody, a defensive line coach will probably fight
(07:36):
for him, say I can take him, I can make him.
If you're taking him in the first round, and you
better be thinking ten to twelve sacks a year. That's
what I always Oh wait, finally got to that point
this year. Right, you got to be thinking first round
pass rusher. I got to be getting double digit sacks
at this guy. If I can't get that, am I
gonna take him? Look at Trey Hendrickson, what's he get
in seventeen a year he was with a third round
(07:56):
draft choice. So now the Neil Hunter didn't have many
sacks of Doell Issues got ninety nine career sacks. Now
he was with a fourth round pick. So you have
had outliers that have not had great sack production in
college that have gone on to do it with their outliers.
And Bill Poeian told me and screamed at me, you melt,
you don't draft outliers. Okay, if we have a range
on a wide nine, it says a wide nine has
(08:18):
got to be four to six, y five or better.
We can't draft the guy at four seven to one
for a forty can't do it. So you got what's
the take guys to be able to do You got
a discipline. Part of being a great valueur is being
disciplined in your approach and not letting something happen to say, well,
I'm going to make an exception to the rule. I'm
gonna do something away from what I normally would do,
(08:38):
and I'm gonna take a shot on this guy. Well,
I guess you could do it once in a while.
Can't make a live in doing that. So if teams
that say, hey, production the final seven games of the
last three years of Texas A and M, he did
not record a sack. That's the final seven games of
three straight years, one and a half, three years ago,
one and a half, two years ago, one and a half.
This year, that's four and a half sacks in his career.
(09:00):
Theirs guy's had four and a ff sacks in a
game this year. Okay, So to me, I couldn't do
it myself. He's graded at a point where I have
him on the board that twenty five to twenty eight
area that I know is gonna go higher. And I've
always believe you're picking where the raves are you gonna got.
You gotta get a guy on your board. It's in
the top fifteen. It's gonna work that way. You're gonna
(09:21):
get a guy's on your board. One of the best
best team players in this draft. So it's not gonna
be Shamar Stewart if you for me, No, Now, somebody
else gonna take Chamar. I think they will, because I
think somebody, a defensive line coach is gonna look at
that talent. They're gonna find some plays. You can always,
you know, cherry pick plays. You can always do it.
I can find I can find any player and find
you good plays and bad plays, and I'll convince you
(09:42):
he's good. I can convince you he's bad. So if
you can find those plays with Shamarsh, when you can,
a defensive line coach can say I can make that
a consistent thing. And somebody's gonna believe in that D
line coaching off or that GM or that whatever it
is that makes that determination. Somebody's gonna take that kid
and end. He's a good test case. I always say
these are good test cases. Do you have guys like
Oh Way, you have guys like Hunter, you know that
(10:03):
don't have the great sack production. But what do they
do once you're in the NFL? Do they flourish? Do
they prosper?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
We'll see now, now, mel a guy who kind of
screams Raven to me is Michael Williams of Georgia. And
here's the guy who's big, physical, beats up tight ends,
he can set the edge, He's got athletic ability to
rush the passer. But the injury, the ankle injury this
past season really kind of limited him and couldn't result
(10:29):
in him sliding. What do you think of Michael Williams.
Is he a player if he's there at twenty seven
that the Ravens turned the card in.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
That's depend upon if he's there, would they turn the
card in? Maybe? Yeah. I would have loved to seeing
him go through the year healthy. He wasn't with the ankle. Yeah,
do you see the burst? Do you see the explosiveness?
You know? To me, he's got to develop some more
pass rush moves. He's great against the run, He's great
at the point, he can steal the edge, you can
do all those things. He hustles, he plays hard, he
(10:58):
looks the part from the size standpoint out there on
that football field. I thought one of the year, he
or James Pierce Junior may be in line to be
one of the top picks in the draft, and neither
because James Pierce Jr. Didn'troduced to the level expected and MIKEL.
Williams had the injury. Now, what he played through I
give him credit for because Kirby Smart said it. A
lot of kids would shut it down. He didn't. He
(11:19):
played through that injury and he was out there gutting
it out knowing he wasn't one hundred percent or even
close to it. So give him total credit for that.
But you know he's a border line, you know, I'd
say twenties seventeen, Cincinnati into the late first That's where
I have him going right now. So would it be
automatic to answer your question, guys that it would be
Mikel Williams based on grade. Where's Mike Greens? Mike Green
(11:41):
around at that point coming out of Marshall because he
would be a guy that would have to be in
the in the discussion if he were around. I don't
think he will be. I got anyone to Atlanta, but
say a Mike Greens there. Give you another name. Donovan
Azeraku from Boston College is an edge rusher. You know,
doesn't play the run great like Mikel Williamsbody's a better
natural pass rusher. Ol Femio from UCLA is a heck
(12:02):
of a football player. He's gotten more publicity now as
we moved through the process, and I think, you know,
he should have gotten this publicity during the year because
he had a great season at UCLA. And by the way,
his teammate Carson Swessinger phenomenal player. He's in the late
first round next at worse early second. So both those
UCLA kids haven't been discussed much at all. Chuestioninger has
(12:22):
gotten more publicity than Oladejo. I had Oladjo in the
mock first round, a couple in mock two point oh.
I think people are laughing at it. Where'd you get
that name? Nobody? Well, guess what people are now talking
about ol the fame of the Oladejo as maybe a
late one early too, so he's I haven't gon to
Tennessee in the early second. This kid after moving off
ball to outside, just like happening with Abdull Carter Retaboc.
(12:43):
And he tested well and he's got lane and I'm
big into lane. So you know those two UCLA kids,
Schwestinger and and Ola Dejo, keep an eye on them
as well.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Wait, well you mentioned Swessinger and the report came out
this week that he was visiting the Ravens and and
could he be a fit there next to Roquan Smith
and having this those two guys kind of in the
middle of the defense there. What's your take on the
possibility of the Ravens using that inside using a first
round pick on an inside linebacker, whether him or if
it's Shoot Campbell, if he were to fall to the
Ravens like an inside linebacker first round pick, would that
(13:15):
make sense for this defense?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, do you think about the Ravens. It wasn't Ray
Lewis right right, It was Patrick Queen, right, Patrick Queen
remember that year. Remember Murray was coming out that same year.
They were both in the mix. Burray went to the Chargers,
worked that better with Patrick Queen here in Baltimore, made
the big deal to get ro Kwan Smith drafted. Simpson.
Simpson was a former running back member. He's just still
still developing the instincts and just the feel for the position. Certainly,
(13:40):
now we've got a new linebacker coach, new inside linebacker
coach as well, with the Ravens coming in. Schwessinger this
year played at an elite level. Now he was a
former walk on. He didn't do it even at the
start of the season. Took him with three games in
and he was all over the field. When you watch you,
Cla said, I had to look who is that guy?
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Guy?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Who is he? Because he wasn't on the list of
guys to be watching that closely, but he started popping
in every game, double digit sacked, impactful. Oladeja was a
guy I was watching. But I'm watching Schwettinger and watching
him again. All of a sudden, he's flying to the football,
He's showing great range, he's showing versatility, He's making play
after play after play. So yeah, to answer your question,
(14:20):
he would have to be in the mix for the
kind of year he had. I mean, I don't like
forty one and a half vertical, I believe.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Now I want to back up real quick to Ezraku
that you mentioned, because you said of that cluster you
really like Donovan Ezerraku from Boston College. Do you think
he's too small to be a raven like they typically
go for those bigger outside linebackers.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
They do, and he's spent two forty seven six and
a half forty seven. But one thing he's got, guys,
and you gotta have it when you're outside. He's got
great length. Yeah, okay, when you and I'm big into
long arms at every position. Now quarterback doesn't matter, right,
but you got to have length. And when the offensive line,
d line, linebacker, secondary, wide receiver, I want I love Wane.
That's not the end all be all, but the longer
(15:02):
the better. In some positions it is the end all
be all. So certainly there that comes into play. The
bend as well. Spoke to an offensive line coach tight
end coach this week. The bend the ability to really
wreak havoc and get into the mind of the tackle
you're going up against. If you had that, I call
it like the speed skaters, right, the the ability of
(15:23):
being able to have that bend. They have it. And
as Iraku has that and the closing ability. Once you
said can you close like a cat? He can do that.
Then do you have the attitude the approach to be
just a play like a raven guy? As Iraku has that,
So yes, while he is You're not two hundred and
sixty five pounds, you know he's not that kind of guy.
He's two forty seven. He's not sixty four sixty five either.
(15:45):
He plays like a raven. Now is that you know
you are going to sacrifice a little in the run game, yes,
you will. Could he get swallowed up? We'd be handled
in the run game by steal the edge. We do
all those things. That's the mystery moving forward to the NFL.
He's a great kid. They raved about him at BOSS
in college, and the production matched the talent. And when
the production matches the talent, you got something. That's why
I was surprised. Even during the year, it's always talking about, Hey,
(16:08):
Mike Green had a great year at Marshall. No touch
the talent. The production was there, but we're all talking
about Pierce. We're talking about mikel Williams and all these
other How about Donovan Ezraku. You know he's getting done.
He went to the Senior Bowl and he was He
had a tough time blocking him down there. So yes,
I do think he's in the mix for the late
first round. So I think he'll be a raven. I'm
with you on that. Maybe not, but somebody's going to
(16:28):
take him where it's late first there's going to be
no worse than the early second round.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, Elvis Damerville was a shorter pass usher. He had
a lot of success here in Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
On the All time Greats and Jonathan Ogden couldn't Black
Dwyke Treeneyer Fredy with that size made it tough on
those taller offensive tackles. So again, I think that's gonna
work in Donovan Ezraku's favor as well because his bend
and I'll tell you what he's got to want to
as well, and then he's got the long arms for
his size. All bodes well for this kid being the
double digit SAT guy in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So I want to talk about defensive linemen is that's
certainly a position of need for the Ravens to get
more depth there. And hey, they were interested in reportedly
in bringing back Kalayis Campbell. Is there. I know Khalayis
Campbell's a freak in that defensive penetrating, defensive end slash
d tackle mold that you feel like will be a
good fit here in Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'll tell you the guy, you know, Derek Harmon's interesting.
You know, Derek Harmon Oregon is a guy I have
going to Pittsburgh because I think he could learn from
Cameron Hayward. I love what he did at Oregon this
year at Michigan State. He was just okay, but he
took his game to another level. He tested great. He's
got length, and he's got a great attitude and a
great approach. So I like kids that want to work
hard and they're all about being professional and being That's
(17:38):
how you end up playing in your late thirties at
that position. Kalaias Campbell, by the way, he wasn't a
first round pick. He was a second round pick. Cam
Hayward was in the top ten to fifteen pick in
the first round. Was in the first round. He didn't
go top ten to fifteen. So these are guys were
kind of pushed down a little bit. And look what
happened here they are playing you know when you thought
there's no way, and Miami won him back. Now he's
back in Arizona. Kalaias Campbell, Right, Cam Hayward's got another
(18:00):
deal going where he's going to be there, And here's
the kid could learn from him there.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
The interesting guy too is water Nolan from Old Miss Yeah,
what do you do? Where does he fit into a
defensive line scheme. I think he's schemed, versatile. I know
he's disruptive. I know he plays hard, and I know
he was ahead a heck of a year at Old
Miss after going to A and M as the number
one player come out of high school football. But I
think teams are a little bit kind I would say up,
but the figure trying to figure it out. I've heard
(18:24):
opinions all over the flight. Some think he could go
ten to eleven in the first round. I got him
in the early second because that's what you hear. Kind
of the buzz is late first, early second. But Walter
Nolan's a good football player, make no mistake about it.
When he's on a football field. What did the lake
great Al Davis say Sunday? It's all about Sunday playing
on Sundays. Just when baby play on Sunday and on Sunday,
(18:46):
Walter Nolan will show up and he'll play big for you.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Defensive line is one of those I guess needs for
the Ravens that maybe flies under the radar a little bit,
but would not surprise me if they addressed it early.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And you have Walter Nolan and Derek Harmon.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Who could make be there in the first But it
sounds like you've got Harmon ahead of him, that you
got the harm and ahead of those at the top
of the order there for those two guys that would
maybe make more sense.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
And be a better fit for a better fit.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, what's gonna really be interesting, guys, And it impacts
the Raves. I brought this up. What impacts even that
tapeless situation with the Harmon is where DoD should Door
Sanders go? Because we're sitting here in Baltimore. I'm a
Raven fan. You're all Raven fans love the Ravens. Right,
do we want Shador Sanders in Pittsburgh? I don't, okay,
because should Door is a winner and he will find
a way to get the ball to those receivers. This
(19:32):
notion you can't play in Pittsburgh. I your shauldre Well.
Brady played in New England. He didn't have the great
arm and didn't have any speak. Brady ran a five
two twenty four vertical. That's the worst vertical and the
worst forty of any quarterback I've ever evaluated. Okay, the
all time greatest quarterback, Johnny Unitas will always be number
one of my lists. I still have John Elway, as
you guys know, I love John Elway. We're up to
despite the fact they didn't come to Baltimore. I didn't
(19:55):
hold that against them. You talk about where we are
right now in terms of Shador Sanders. Could he be
there with the Pittsburgh Steelers pick at twenty one? Could
he fall in their lap? Ben Roethlisberger fell in their
lap after Rivers and Eli went early. Right, Look how
that worked out. Ben Roethlisberger fell in their lap. Well,
same thing happened with Shador Sanders. I don't think they'll
(20:15):
take Jackson Dart if Shador's gone. I'll been told not
for Jackson Dart because it may be a little too
much Kenny Pickett there right, not enough upside whatever you
want to talk about there. I don't think Tyler Shuck's
going that high either. Don't think it will be Jalen
Milroe necessarily, But Jalen Milroe's intriguing you. If he can
fix that accuracy, you got a special player. If he can't,
he'll just be a guy who had packages because he's
(20:36):
a great runner, and he'll never be a successful starting quarterback.
You got to roll the dice one Milroe that you
know he can be accurate. Something was not the latter
half of this season. Roally the last three quarters of
this past season.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
So if you're watching we're watching the draft on the
first night and you hear Shador Sanders going the top ten,
one of those teams takes him early, we're going to
get a big round of applause from you on the
ESPN desk there.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Well, I'll be very very statisfy that it's not going
to impact the Ravens negatively, and the Steelers won't get
the quarterback. I would think they would want to see
slide down that far. I don't have a problem with
Tyler Shuck going there. From have a problem with Jackson
Dark going there, would have a problem with Jalen Milroe
going there. But I don't want to see Shador in
the Pittsburgh Steeler uniform. And you know, and that could happen.
(21:18):
That'll be our worst nightmare. If that starts to happen.
Maybe somebody will try to jump ahead of them and
grab them. I don't know. I don't know what New
Orleans is going to do at nine. They could take them,
they could take Dart, they could not even take a quarterback. Okay,
there are some of the things they're not going to
go quarterback that that's not going to happen. I think
they could Kellen Moore hand picked this quarterback. If he
likes one of the two, take them. We'll see. Chador
(21:38):
is not probably gonna go to the Giants. We know
that now, right, he's not one anywhere past New Orleans.
Where's he going to go? Then you get into no
man's plan. If it's not the Steelers the Rams. Now
I keep hearing maybe the Rams won't take a quarterback. Well,
somebody else trade back in. Well, you know what happens
here Now, Pittsburgh doesn't get a court of Pittsburgh has
no two.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
The can they forfeit their first round pick too? That's
really the dreams scenary. They lose their first round pick.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Also, what they're gonna do, what they have they can't
do is try to moving up won't be now, you
can always give up picks next year, But to go
up from twenty one without the second round pick that
they traded the Seattle for DK Medcalf that they're a
little hamstrung there now because you normally give up to two,
you move up, you throw another. You know, you have
to go about to Jimmy Johnson's chart. Right, But now
(22:23):
all of a sudden with No. Two. What do they
think are they gonna sit at twenty one? Is somebody
else like the Giants? If they don't, they don't, They're
not gonna take sure. Do they feel they need to
go up and get Shador this Cleveland? Does somebody else
feel the need to go up and get Shador? Or
does he, like I say, just fall down to Pittsburgh.
That's going to be the story of the first round.
Aaron Rodgers started to slide and Green Bay just waited
(22:44):
it out.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Well and Lamar Jackson, how about Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Blumber Sias and guys ranked the third best player in
the draft. My first year at ESPN in nineteen eighty four,
they had three picks in the first round. Did not
take Boomer. They took him in the second round. The
third player on the board went in the second round.
Farb was fourteen went in the second round. Okay, it's
happened before, it can happen again. So there's a chance
that Shador could be there at twenty one.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Well, last one here for email before we let you leave.
One of my favorite things is I love always hearing
some guys that I've never heard of. I never you
know these guys I've never heard of, and so recently
talked with Steve Ashatti and John Harbaugh and they said
they were talking about wide receivers who are like late
round undrafted type guys, and they were like, hey, I
like him.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
You like him too.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
So who's the receiver they're talking about, mal Who's this
receiver that's going to go in the sixth seventh undrafted
range that we could be talking about here in Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Well, there's a couple guys. I got the list here.
I mean I went through this because the Blaine Taylor
and Abilene Christians one. Because we're actually doing a segment
on this coming up this week on ESPN, which is
all sleepers and guys down the line. And I look
at wide receivers and you want small college guys not mating,
and there's a lot of I call. I always had
a segment in my draft report which was major college sleepers,
because there is such a thing as a major college sleeper. Guys.
(23:56):
There's a good Juwan Newton, the Toledo very under the radar.
But Efton should the third of Eastern Washington. I like
the way he played this year. I like that kid
as a late round priority free agent. There's get Holden
Willis at Middle Tennessee State is a late rounder. Darius
Cooper of Tarleton State's another one. Blaine Taylor at Abilene
Christian Chandler bray Boy at Elon's another one that could
(24:18):
be the Gibson kid Darkansas Pine Bluff. So those are
guys from the smaller schools, but from the major schools
that are under the radar, Guys that I personally have
a better grade on than some people do. I'll give
you some of those names. There's a kid, Tory Horton
at Colorado State got hurt. Was playing really well, so
he got hurt. He could drop down to a point
in the draft where he becomes an interesting pick. DK
(24:40):
the kid at Florida was at Wisconsin, tested well. He
could be a gunner on special teams. He can be
help you in the punt return game as a third
fourth receiver. Watch out for him. Another kid I think
Jimmy Horn Junior at Colorado. Nice player and if he
gets pushed into Day three, he could be a good one.
I like what I saw Rock Taylor at Memphis. Nobody's
(25:01):
talking about him at all. Daniel Jackson at Minnesota as
another one was productive. There's a lot of those guys
that I look at in the later rounds from the
major college ranks. They're gonna slip through the cracks that
are gonna be, like I say, either late rounders or
priority free agents, but they're gonna have a chance to
play in the league. So I always wonder, where's the
where's the DK kid from Florida gonna come off the bords.
It's gonna be third round or it's gonna be fifth round.
(25:23):
If you can get him in the fifth round, you
got your second self a heck of a value pick.
Third round, maybe a little rich, right, but fifth round's
gonna so with George Young, late great George Young, Calvert
Hall's own right. George Young told me I got the
handwritten letters George used to used to write me when
he got the draft report. He said, now when you
buy is just as important as who you select. George
(25:45):
was big into the value. He was big in to
try to figure out if we get this kind of
fifth round, I like it a lot better than the
third or fourth round. So he was big into when
you buy it is just as important as who you selected.
I've taken that a little phrase throughout my career and
pen because it really is true. When you this guy
protects you against bus That's why you do this board,
(26:05):
because it protects you against reaching it. We'll protect you
against some guys who went earlier than they should have.
You take guys, you put those guys. Carl Peterson always said,
we go through this exercise for a reason. Guys, let's
stay true to our board. Let's not deviate from our board.
We do this for a reason, and it comes true.
It stands true that it's the test of time. It's
what's good, the test of time. We put that board
(26:28):
up for a reason. Just be disciplined in your approach
and stay true to your board.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
That sounds like Eric. That sounds like Eric exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
He's always he's a bargain hunter.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Well you gotta be. Hey, I loved it a few
years ago when Eric had all those fourth round picks.
I was loving it. The ESPN we're drafted a punter
stout right, We're getting everybody isaya l likely? You know,
Look I always I always used to do this when
I was you know, long before I started, I said,
always free seams, I put down the picks, why I
would move off of this pick. I'd end up with
fifteen draft picks. I kept trading down, and I've always
(26:58):
who could I get? I'd go through and I like,
do this little It's not like a fantasy draft, but
who I would have taken based on my grades, not
just air for the fact, but based on grades, and
then see how it all played out three years down
the road. Always tried to do that. And then, like
I said, Howie Roseman with the Eagles, Eric Tacosta with
the Ravens. Ya, let's sneed with the Rams. You know,
beach out in Kansas City. There's some great chance. But
(27:20):
I'll tell you what the Ravens have. Hey, you can
argue how Howie Roseman. Howie Roseman's gonna be a Hall
of Fame GM. Eric the Costa is going to be
right there with him.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Mel.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, thank you so much for taking the time as
always to our listeners. Go check out all mels coverage
on ESPN in his latest two round bock draft to
see who he has come to Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I don't hide my Ravens. Yeah, I have had dagon
what anybody says, I'm Ravens all the way I root
for the Ravens. I'm hoping the Ravens. I don't have
to hope Ravens will do well. When Dres say Eric
and his scouts, they do a great job. And Izzie
all those years was phenomenal. So you know this raven organization.
Steve Bashaddi leading away, couldn't be proud of those guys.
And like I said, Hey, this family, this whole family here,
(28:01):
this Polish Catholic family, the hyper family of Baltimore. We
love the Ravens. Go Ravens, and I really enjoyed it.
Guys had a great time.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Love it. Thank you Belle, Thank you Mel.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Welcome back into the lounge where you're coming to you
from the Sea Geek Studio. We also want to mention
our partners at Draft King Sportsbook. There an official sports
betting partner of the Baltimore Ravens Draft King Sportsbook.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
The Crown is yours. So it's always a highlight of
the year when we get a chance to talk to Mel.
He's one of our favorite guys.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
We've done this this interview with him on the pod
several times over the years and it's always, uh, it's
always a It's a favorite day of mine just to
get to talk to him.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
It's it's always great.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, he's a workhorse, you know. I mean, it's pretty funny.
He was holding a ESPN conference call with reporters before
he came on the podcast. I was like, I can't
get enough of Mel. I loved on to that too.
He was gracious enough to give you a question on
that as well.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
You and Mel just basically hung out all day today.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I wish that would be a dream day for me. Yeah,
so big thank you ta Mel for coming on the lounge.
And you know, I think some really great insight. He's
a Malachi Sarks guy. He really likes Malachi Starts Starks
and Donovanez, Roku the pass rusher from BC. You know,
there's those guys that are Mel guys, and hey, he
hit one of them.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Last year.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Roger Rosengarten was a Mel guy. He was really high
on him and the Ravens ended up taking him.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
So well.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
You you have said throughout this process leading up to
the draft that you feel like Malachi Starks is the
player who the Ravens will draft in the first round.
You're aligned with Mel kiper on that both of you
have have the Ravens taking him, and after talking with him,
does that make you feel I guess more confident in that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think the interesting thing is that Mel says, you know,
he didn't have as good a final season because he
was being moved around everywhere. You know, now the Ravens
like to move their safeties around. Maybe the player they
draft to put next to Kyle Hamilton doesn't move around.
Maybe that's more of a true free safety because Kyle
(29:54):
Hamilton has that versatility, right, But you know, I think
I think it's intriguing in that starts part of the
the good things about him is that he has that versatility.
But Mel saying the reason why he might slide to
the Ravens is because he didn't play as well with
that versatility.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's interesting the point that he makes in the whole
conversation around versatility and also value, Like if you're getting
a value there, there's a reason that a guy's gonna
be there at twenty seven and maybe it's positional value,
or maybe it's maybe it's he was injured, or maybe
he didn't play as well, But like that can that
can work to your benefit? And there's been plenty of
(30:33):
times over the years where that has worked to the
Ravens benefit. Like when KYLEA. Hamilton was there at fourteen.
A lot of people didn't think he was gonna get there,
but he was there, probably because he played safety and didn't.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Have the flexibility.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Thing is that question mark often leads.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
To yes, that's one of the questions and from a
value standpoint, so all that could lead to him being
there and if the Ravens end up, you know, the
pass rusher. We spent a lot of time talking dB
and pass rusher with Mel and like that to me,
if I'm I haven't locked it in yet, I know
you have. But I'm leaning secondary, like my gut instinct
(31:06):
right now is secondary in the first round. That could
be safety, that could be a corner, and then of
course you have the defensive front as well. It's interesting
a lot of defensive talk. I mean, we're really leaning
heavy on the defensive side here in the conversation for
what the Ravens are gonna do in the first round,
maybe in the first couple rounds. It just seems defense heavy.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah, I certainly that's what I expect to happen. You know,
there are some other spots. I think tight end, running back, receiver,
I think interior offensive line or tackle, guard, tackle. They're
gonna take some offensive players, but it's gonna be dominated
on the defensive sides.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Especially early.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, that's why I really see a lot of those
coming off.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
The board day three.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah, Like I would be really surprised at the Ravens
ended up. I mean, you could maybe talk yourself into
an offensive lineman maybe, but I would be surprised if
they address those other positions on the first two days.
So as always, we'd love to hear from you guys,
the listeners and the viewers. You can email us the
lounge at Ravens dot NFL dot net. Let us know
what question you have and let us know your thoughts
on the upcome the draft him Thanks again to mel
(32:01):
Kiper for joining us. You can watch his coverage all
throughout the draft and leading up to it on ESPN.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Thanks for watching. We'll talk to Vincent
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