December 9, 2025 • 40 mins
Team insiders Ryan Mink and Garrett Downing discuss the fallout from the controversial calls in the Ravens' loss to the Steelers, John Harbaugh's take on Daniel Faalele, how DeAndre Hopkins can be used more, how the Ravens can still with the AFC North and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome into the Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan mink
He with Garrett Downing. We've had time to think about
the ravens twenty seven to twenty two loss to the
Pittsburgh Steelers as well as here from head coach.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
John Harball on Monday, and we're.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Going to break down some of the takeaways from that
game as the Ravens moved forward with four games left
in the regular season, as well as look ahead to
some of the injury news and things to look forward
to in that matchup coming up against the Bengals on Sunday. So, Garrett, certainly,
a lot of the talk since Sunday's loss to the
Steelers has still been about the officiating and the three
(00:41):
critical calls really that went against the Ravens that honestly
played a big part in determining this game. How big
You can never say, right, did they cost the Ravens game?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
You can never say, But they were three big calls.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
All three went against the Ravens, and the Ravens I
think a lot of people want to clarity coming out
of that whole situation, including the Ravens. Yeah, head coach
down Harball, General manager Eric Tacassa and others spoke with,
requested to speak with the NFL, which is kind of
a rare thing about those calls, and did so Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, they asked for a call. They had the call
with Perry Fuel, who's the NFL Senior Vice President of Officiating,
a former NFL coach, longtime coach, as well as Walt
Coleman at the league office on the officiating side. And
so they had a call with them and talked through
those three plays in particular. And this, as you mentioned,
is not something It's not like there's a Monday morning
(01:36):
call every week, but the calls on the field and
with the replay operation rose to the level that the
Ravens initiated this call with the league. It brought some
it was an opportunity to be heard. I think it
brought clarity in some situations and not necessarily clarity in others.
And the fact is, and of course the Ravens knew
(01:59):
this before you even go into the call. Like you
hear the NFL hears them out. They're not saying, all right,
let's head back to McBay Stadium and change the rule
on one of these things and play it out from there,
like you're not going to give the Ravens a win,
They're not going to change the calls retroactively, Like that's
of course not going to happen. It's more of an
opportunity to be heard and to take learnings from it
(02:21):
moving forward.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, and you just want an explanation, honestly, you know,
it just like played a large factor in you losing
a big time game that we all talk about was
a playoff game is to you know, see who as
going to be in first place in the AFC Norse
so huge, huge calls, and honestly, you just want answers.
Like I went to bed Sunday night and woke up
(02:44):
again on Monday morning being like hell, like, you know,
I've got these follow up questions that I want to know.
I want to know what they say about that, and
so I think the Ravens, you know, John Harball and
Eric Goss woke up with those same questions.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Probably well.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
One area of clarity that we did get and John
Harbaugh shared this was that the NFL acknowledged fault. They
made the wrong call on the unnecessary roughness call on
Travis Jones.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Now that was not a replay that was just the
wrong call on the field.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yep, through a flag in that moment. The rule on
that play, just for listeners to know, is that the
center the long snapper is a defenseless player and as
because of that, you are not able to make any
forceable contact to the head and neck area that did.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Not have allowed to lower your helmet. You're not allowed
to launch yourself at that point.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right, Just like a receiver going over the middle of
the field who's a defensives player, same applies.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
To the doesn't mean they can't be knocked over, doesn't
mean they can't be contacted. Which Travis Jones tried to
split the gap between the long snapper and the guard
just like I said after the game, and in doing so,
Travis Jones is a large man and c J o'coya
on the other side also they both tried to get
through that gap and knocked him out.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, they basically ran over the long staffer and starting
the contact with the guards next to him, and so
they called the penalty. The official set after the game
and the pool report basically they felt like the level
of contact rose to the unnecessary roughness call. But as
the NFL told John Harbor, and he said in his
press conference on Monday that that was not the right call.
(04:20):
They missed that one, and the NFL actually told Harball
that he could share that news publicly, which he did.
Then they acknowledged that that was the wrong call.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Which I think the I do credit the league for
saying that. Right, it feels like and the complaint that
you often hear is that there's no accountability right, and
there's no like, ah, we screwed that up, my bad,
and so like to admit that does give you a
little bit of peace with the situation.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Again, it doesn't change the result.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And by the way that that flag gave the Steiler,
it didn't give the Steelers. It opened the door for
the Steelers to get four more points. It resulted in
a four point swing, That's what it did because the
ring of the Steelers, right, the Steelers are going to
kick a kicked a field goal that was successful. Instead,
it gave them a fresh said downs and they scored
a touchdown. So if not for that flag, there would
(05:14):
have been four fewer points on the board for the Steelers,
which in a five point win, changes everything, right. I
mean the Ravens a when they went forward on fourth
and five, they would have kicked a field goal. Of course,
right after the Isaiah likely touchdown was wiped off the board.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
They would kick a field goal to.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Take a two point lead, or they would have been
in a kick a field goal at the end of
the game situation instead of having to drive down the
field and score a touchdown. Now, of course you can
all play that out right. The Steelers might not have
run the ball three straight times or whatever it was
on their last drive. They would have been approaching that
situation differently had they been losing at the time, not winning.
So you can never say, but four points in a
(05:52):
five point game would have been a big deal.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That was a massive call in that moment, and it's disappointing,
and the truth be told like that that happens, that
calls get missed, But it was the it was the
three stacked on top that one was rule incorrectly.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
The The annoying part about that, though, is that there
seemed to be not a full understanding of the rule
because because in the explanation of that, it wasn't like
the the referee came on after the game when the
pool report and said like, yeah, after seeing the replay.
I kind of blew that call, you know. It was like, well,
you just ran him over and you can't run him over. Well,
(06:33):
you can run him over, it's just like you can't
make forcible contact to the head or neck area, right,
So like that that's a little bit of the frustration there,
I would say.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah. Then on the other two calls, John Harbaugh described it,
the Isaiah likely one is the one that everybody's talking about.
And that's that's the headline, that's the discussion point that
everybody's having. Getting my haircut in the barbershop today, everybody's
talking about that call.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Haircut.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I appreciate that. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Everybody's talking about that call.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And and so the John Harball said, it's basically clear
as mud right now on the rule at how it's officiated. Again,
the way the rule reads right now is there's three
elements of the catch. You need possession of it. Then
you need two feet down after the bunce in bounds.
Of course, after those two things are completed, then you
need a third element. The third element of the catch
(07:21):
is a football move. And a football move could be
extending the football, it could be it could be a spin.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Move awarding off a defender, that's the other.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
It could be a third step that's also or the
time to make a football move. So if you caught
the ball, you just were standing still for ten seconds,
you have the time to make that.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Which which we haven't really discussed enough, like did Isaiah
likely have enough time to make after the second step
to make a football move? The key element here, I think,
and why this is and I agree with John Harball,
this is clear as mud is that the word after
to me is is the key element here because Isaiah
(08:02):
likely when he caught that ball as soon as he
caught it, okay, check the box number one, and really
as soon as he caught it, there wasn't an element
of is he going to be in bounds? Yeah, of
course he was in the middle of the end zone.
So check number two immediately also right, he's in right,
and then he extends the ball like in the same motion. Right,
So like he quickly checked the first two boxes. Number
(08:24):
three years checked, Like why why does it have to
be one, two, three, right? Like like insequential order. That's
that's the part that it's like what and like he
was warding off the defender, he was still in the process,
like you have to start the ball extension after the
second foot comes down, Like why what what sense does
(08:46):
that make? And he was still in the process of
warding off the defender. If you're gonna that's that's what
he was doing. He was warding off the defend. He
was in the process of doing that after he got
the second foot down. Yeah, So like if you're talking
about a sequence of events, yeah, he was in the
he did that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, the argument can be made that that was his
the extension of the football and the continued extension of
the football was the football move right.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Now now, but the he extended he's So that's what
I wish that I was on that phone call Harves
and Eric didn't patch me in which I would have
liked to next time, you know, But like, that's what
I would like to know if that was I'm sure
that was discussed during the call, Like why The question
(09:33):
is why was Isaiah Likely's extension of the ball not
considered a football move? And secondarily, why was his warding
off of Joey Porter junior of the defender not considered
the third element of that a football move?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Right? Then the other piece of this, of course, The
third play was the Aaron Rodgers catch that took an
interception off the board, and that's part of the frustration
for the Ravens. On both of these, Isaiah Likely's rule
to time down on the field, the Teddy Buchanan interception
ruled an interception on the field. Both of them go
to replay and get overturned. And on the Isaiah Likely
(10:08):
one sorry. On the Teddy Buchanan interception and Rogers goes up,
he has control of it, but then his knee goes down.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Both have control of it.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, they're basically fighting for the football. It goes down,
Teddy Buchanan comes up with it again. Rule does an
interception on the field, replayer returns it says he was
down And so both of those situations are basically the
catch rule and the description around it.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But that's the question.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's what I would love to know, is that in
the ruling of that when they were reviewing that, were
they reviewing it as if Aaron Rodgers was a receiver
or a ball carrier. He was a receiver, that's how
he should it should be reviewed. But the way the
rules overturning it was applying the rule as if he
were a ball carrier, like if he if he's just
(10:54):
getting sacked or whatever, and he has possession of the
ball and there's kind of a wrestling that for it
and he gets his knees down, Okay, yeah, it's done. However,
if he's a receiver, right like and there's a competition
for the ball, he didn't complete a football act. Yeah,
you know, once his knees hit once, which is his
(11:17):
knees hitting we're number two, right, check number one, he
possessed it in his hands, he had it in his hands.
Number two, his knees hit the ground. So that's the
two steps or in knee or whatever it is. Number
three because this is in the field of play and
all that stuff is a football act. Yeah right, Well,
the football act he never completed, and by the end
of the play, Teddy Buchana had the ball.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Right Basically, in that situation, you have to survive the
catch to the ground exactly like, because you can't do
a spin move or you can't extend the ball as
you're going. You have to basically survive the ground.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
It's actually a pretty good example of this is flashback
to last season a wheel route to Justice Hill deep
down the field against their rookie linebacker Peyton and he
in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh and it was kind of both
guys had the ball and Peyton came away with it. Yeah,
(12:10):
when they hit the ground and he came away with it.
Steelers interception. Yeah, same situation here.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, that both guys have their hands on it, they're
fighting for it going to the ground. One guy comes
up with it. Now again that the tie goes to
the runner, to a shared possession goes to the offense.
But you have to but the question there is was
was possession established? And that's the that is what was
certainly murky on that. And so you know, I think
that with with this, as you like move it forward,
(12:39):
I do wonder if there will be discussion this offseason
about adjusting the ketcherl The catcher has been adjusted and
tweaked and dissected and and and looked at many different times.
And so Dallas Cowboys fans are looking at the sand
that you guys want to talk about a catch. Let's
talk about that des Bryant play back in the playoffs.
So like that is uh, it's it's definitely a converse
(13:00):
that is this is not the last catch debate that
exists out there, but I do wonder if there will
be any process of reviewing or tweaking that rule this offseason.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, Terry McCauley, a former NFL referee, you know, he
he said in reviewing the play that he does think
that the rules should be changed again.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And here's a long time.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Former NFL referee tweeted that, and so I think that,
like he said, the keyword.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Being after and the whole, the whole.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Honestly, if if you don't change that rule after seeing
the Isaiah Likely play, I think that more defenders are
going to be lighting up wide receivers and stuff in
the end zone right like they're gonna be like all right,
like it, because clearly the layman would watch that play
and say, all right, Likely just scored a touchdown. Plays over,
(13:54):
You're gonna have defenders that are coming in and just
blasting people late after the catch. And I guarantee there's
gonna be flags if this if this whole like, okay,
he has to make a juke move after catching the
touchdown for its a count, or he has to stick
the ball out, or he has to do all this
stuff for it the count like And the crazy part is,
(14:15):
you know, if if Isaiah likely is in the back
of the end zone and catches that two feet down
and then falls out of bounds, doesn't make a football move.
He falls out of bounds, it's a touchdown. But because
he's in the middle of the end zone, he has
to do an extra step to prove that it's a touchdown.
It's just it's it's just all kind of wonky. That's
why I think it's the clearers mud. I agree, And
(14:37):
you know, it's it's it's difficult because there's like you
try to make it so black and white, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
You know, the time element.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Did Isaiah likely have enough time to do something that's
that's gray? Yeah, you know, and was was he extending
the ball? At what point was he extending the ball?
Was does a count if it's already extended his account,
if he's already wearing the opponent. Yeah, Like so it's
it's it's difficult.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah. So again, it doesn't change anything. But the Raiders
did have that call in that conversation, and and I
think they got they received an explanation. But now after that,
you basically have to turn the page and move forward.
Because again, as we keep saying, nothing is going to
change from that game.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
John Harball did say that Isaiah likely is not coached
to hold the ball out like that after making a
catching me that pretty darn clear, and you know likely
has to hold onto that ball. That's that's like at
the end of the day, right, Like, I don't care
if the defenders hitting the ball whatever. Your job is
to secure the football. And I know what he was
(15:41):
trying to do, but that's not what he's supposed to do.
You tuck that thing and get down and and uh
so you know he has fault on the play as well.
I think I don't like the call, but but if
he did what he was coached to do, it wouldn't
have been It wouldn't happen if I.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Hold onto the ball and take three more steps than
you're fine.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Exactly, I mean, and looking at the slowbo replay a
thousand times so as I have done, you know, I
don't think portered it and seem to get the ball.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You know, he hit his arm and so you gotta
have better grip on the ball.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It's kind of like the previous week when he's when
he's going into the end zone, against the Bengals and
the ball gets hit out of his arm, and you know,
John Harball said, I don't have a problem with extending
the ball for the goal line, but I have a
problem when you fumble it when you do right.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So if you're gonna do it, you gotta hold on
to it tight enough.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
And it's also the situations, like you need to be
cognizant of the situation that you're in when you're extending
the ball at the goal line. Other defenders right on you,
are you in space? Like what is the scenario that
you're extending it? And I mean for the going back
two weeks now to that Bengals game, he definitely didn't
need to extend it. He finished to play eight yards
into the end zone. So he could have just run
into the end zone and held it high and tight
(16:49):
and he would have been fine.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, he jumped, he lateraled a guy and got loose
with it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Basically, yeah, exactly, But I'm saying that if he had
just held it lateral and held onto it tight, he
still ended up eight yards in the en zone, it
would have been touched. So he does have to have
better ball security around the goal line and in the
end zone, and I'm sure that that's going to be
a major focus for him.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Before we move on, because I'll never move on. There
was one other penalty that was a really big penalty
that wasn't really talked about very much, which was the
holding call on the Steelers' final punt of the game,
and which was the punt to set up the Ravens
potential game winning drive. You know, they were trying to
(17:28):
off a game winning drive. The Ravens KeAndre Jackson was
called for a hold. You go back and watch that,
you know, the Ravens try to put the gunner and
a vice. They had two guys on him, very kind
of suspect. I mean, Jackson's Caandre is kind of blocking
his shoulder. The guy ends up on the ground, he
(17:49):
gets blasted, but I think it was Keon Martin was
the other guy with KeAndre Jackson. Kean just blasts him legally,
so he ends up on the ground and gets back
to his feet, you know, and then the referee literally
fifty yards away through as the flag, like I mean
literally and so that and that was.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
A huge penalty. It was an eighteen yard penalty.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Instead of the Ravens starting in very good field position.
They're back at the twenty six, right, they would have
been at the forty four, and then a holding penalty
backs them up to the sixteen.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, you're just going out the next play.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So yeah, two plays lost twenty eight yards basically on
back to back plays on what could have been a
game winning drive.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So yeah, just a tough pill swallow across the board
when you're on the opposite end, the wrong end of
those types of calls.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Why I don't like taking pills. Yeah, exactually so then
the worst.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
So we're gonna take a quick break when we come back,
will dissect the rest of Harboss press conference as well,
start looking ahead to the upcoming game against the Bengals.
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(19:03):
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some other notes coming out of John Harbus's press conference
(19:25):
on Monday. One of them was the offensive line. A
lot of discussion about the Ravens offensive line was up
and down in this game against the Steelers, had some
bad moments in key situations and just not good enough
play and that that's kind of been a theme. Emvery Jones,
who we did see against the Bengals in a rotation,
the rookie third round pick who made his debut against
(19:46):
the Bengals, did not play at all in this game,
was not used in a rotation. He was using a
left guard rotation with Andrew Verhees the previous week, but
was not used at all in this game. So the
Ravens just roll with where He's at left guard and
a laile Off at right guard. And so John Harwall
talked about the offensive line and basically his overall take
(20:07):
was it was good and run blocking, which was what
you'd expect. The Rams had over two hundred yards on
the ground. But they had some they had some bad
miscuse and pass protection at guard, and those those were costly.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, I think that, uh, you know, what's what's hurt
Daniel Foul and Andrew Voorhees at times is like when
there's been mistakes, especially in pass protection, they look bad,
you know. I mean it's like quick wins, and those
are tough to handle, and and they just they look
(20:41):
bad right to anybody watching the film and and to
the CBS broadcast that pointed him out and whatnot, and
so that that's not helping. Lamar Jackson helped mask some
of that, I thought against the Steelers more than he
has been in previous weeks when he was more banged up.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And and but.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Those are limiting the Ravens offense at times. You know,
you have too many of those quick wins. On the
other side, they're negative plays. They can be they often
are negative plays that can really set you back. So
I think it's certainly fair to say that the Ravens
wish there was more consistency there.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
You look around the whole league also, I.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Think you know us here in Baltimore, you're watching your
own offensive line every single week, so you know you're
very well versed in all the losses and they leave
scars and you watch other games around the league, you
see other guards and guys getting beat to, Like that's
just you're every position, right, The Ravens had key drops
in this game. Every position's going to have mistakes at times,
(21:48):
the offensive line especially like when you give up clean
losses like that, like it's bad, but like you're never
going to bat a thousand, You're not going to pass
protect and win every single it's just not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I think that as the Ravens in this these final
four games with the regular season, they know they have
to get to get better guard play and that's gonna
that's been a focal point for much of this year.
But you can't have in past pass blocking situations the
like to your point of the easy wins, you can't
give up those situations where defensive line is in the
(22:22):
backfield are no time flat.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
John Harwall basically said in describing one of those, he
said that Daniel fodd Leley basically pass set as if
it was a play action play and it was just
a straight drop.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Back, and so those have different sets and he just
did the wrong one.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
You know, a lot of fans have been clamoring for
Emery Jones, the third round rookie who missed the entire
offseason because of shoulder surgery following the combine. As you mentioned,
he was in a rotation with Andrew Fourhees. John Harwall
did say, basically, yeah, Emery did. He did okay in
his sixteen reps that he has against the Bengals, he
(23:04):
did okay, but he didn't outplay the other two guys.
He said, he didn't outplay him, and he didn't play
the same that he was in their evaluation, worse than
those two guys. If you were better, he would have
the job. Like, make no bones about it. The Ravens
want the best five. Yeah, there's no there's nothing outside
of that, no ulteriear motives, there's no you know, allegiances.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
They want the best five.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
They they basically said, all right, we're gonna give Emery
Jones a look, because you never know until he has
game reps, We're gonna give him a look.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
They gave him a look.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Didn't feel like it was as good as the other two,
and of course practice matters in that decision. Too, But
for that reason they went with Andrew. Wordis that doesn't
mean Emory Jones can at some point and get another look.
But that's the situation for now.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
The other guy that we've been asked about a lot
over the last couple of years really is Bank Cleveland.
He was inactive on game day and on Monday, the
NFL annolynceid he's been suspended three games for violating the
league's policy on substance abuse, So he's out for the
next three games. So he's not going to be in
that mix with that offensive line rotation. Now. Another thing
coming out of the press conference on Monday was DeAndre
(24:11):
Hopkins and John Harball was pretty clear about the desire
to get him more involved in the offense. And I
agree with this Hopkins, and he has not received a
ton of snaps this year. The Ravens have used him
in spot duty, I would say, and situationally, yeah, And
John Harball even made that point that, like, he's not
a guy that at this point of his career that
(24:32):
he's going to play one hundred percent of the snaps.
But he's been impactful when he has been on the field.
He's drawn pis, he's hit some big plays, especially early
in the season, come up with some clutch catches when
the Ravens need to move the chains, Like he's got
the best hands on the team and he's got Hall
of Fame hands, and the Ravens want to He's an asset.
And so I think that for this final month here,
(24:55):
I think there's gonna be a heavier diet of DeAndre
Hopkins in this offense.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, and he hasn't been targeted more than four times
in a game yet this season. He had one target
against the Steelers and didn't have a catch. That was
the third time this year that he's been held without
a catch. I agree with you it Also, you know,
Rashad Batman ain't putting up crazy numbers either. He had
(25:19):
a key drop on a third down in the red zone.
So if you're taking if Rashad loses some snaps to
d Hop like that, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I think at this point.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
DeAndre Hopkins, Uh, it's been a tough it's I think
it's been a challenging season for him. And John Harvill
said he and d Hop have really bonded and had
some very honest conversations. You know, de Hop came here
expecting to win, joining the team that everybody was talking
about with had the best roster in the NFL. He's
a guy that wants to win to Super Bowl badly
before he hangs it up, and felt like he would
(25:50):
have a very good chance of doing that here in Baltimore.
You know, uniting with Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry just
hasn't materialized.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Like Lamar even said after the game when talking about
the game, that you know, he brought in some new
pieces and he called out specifically DeAndre Hopkins. It's like
we brought him in here.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Didn't come here for this.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
It didn't come here for this. I didn't expect this
to be the situation where we're six to seven with
four games left to play, and so Lamar clearly wants
to get him, get him the ball and win games.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And like the hop hasn't scored a touchdown since Week
two against the Browns. Yeah, and he had two spectacular
catches touch on catches in the first two weeks, the
one in Buffalo, the one hander and then a long,
kind of sliding impressive catch against the Browns. So the
Ravens have struggled in the red zone all year, long,
give me some more d Hop in the red zone.
I'll take I'll take that specifically. You know, there was
(26:38):
one kind of end zone fade to Zay Flowers. Uh.
You know Zay made a spectacular over the shoulder catch
on the Ravens opening drive. Yeah, spectacular catch. But then
they kind of went back to the well with less
field to play with and on an end zone shot
that went incomplete.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
To me, I'd like to see d Hop get that. Yeah,
and you know part of it is Lamar.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Also they took a shot to d' hot, but Lamar
threw it out of bounds and you got to keep
that ball in bounds and give him a chance to
make a play on it. This is DeAndre Hopkins. Yeah,
he's a fifty to fifty ball winner. Yeah, but he
can't win and when it's out of bounds. So you
know that's part of it too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Well, also on the fourth down play on the Ravens
second to last drive, Lamar threw passing the end zone.
It's unclear if it was going to Mark Andrews or
DeAndre Hopkins. You look at the back angle, it looks
like he was going towards DeAndre Hopkins.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Pretty confident it was going to d. Hop intended for
d yup.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
And Mark went up and tried to get it with
one hand. Also felt like the defender tugged on his
jersey on that play. And you know, we'll never know
if if that ball would have gotten to Hopkins. There
were two defenders coming in on the play, and would
it have gotten there, I don't know, But he was
there and his reaction after the play, you know, he
he thought it was coming to him. He thought he
was if it would have got to him, of course
(27:52):
he would have caught it, you know, So disappointing that
that wasn't able to material that that kind of speaks
to the Ravens issues in this game and in the
red zone and over the course of the season. Like
all that is kind of a microcosm of what the
team has been this year. And so I think that,
like to my eye, Hopkins has been a really good
piece this year, and I'd like to see him get
more action, and it sounds like that's going to be
(28:12):
a priority for this team. And I think he can
help in the red zone, and the Ravens need help
in the red zone. They just haven't been good enough
these past couple of games honestly all season that's been
issued throughout the year in the red zone, and it's
always tough because it's like, on one hand, like, what
was the issue of the red zone this game, Well,
that Isaiah likely played that we just spent fifteen minutes
talking about, like if that's a touchdown, and then we're
(28:34):
having a different conversation about the red zone if that
ball gets to Hopkins on the play I just described
that fourth down play, we're having a different conversation about
the red zone struggles. But they didn't, and so here
we are, and that has been kind of this team's
undoing offensively at times, and they need to be more
(28:54):
productive at getting touchdowns when they get to that part
of the field.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, they haven't run the ball particularly well when they've
gotten down there. That has been a struggle that goes
back to our offensive line conversation in part, certainly Lamar
not running the ball as much hurts that. Now that
changed in this game. He had a rushing touchdowns first
since week one. So maybe Lamar feeling better physically and
(29:20):
little more is more of a threat around the goal line,
which certainly helps a great amount. You know, when you
are rolling Lamar out, as the Ravens often do, to
try to also afford him more protection and change the
the you know, they're not just teeing off on Lamar
in the backfield. Him being able to tuck it and
run certainly makes that a more threatening play. And so
(29:43):
that's been another factor. And then you know, Lamar Jackson
just has not completed as many passes down in the
red zone this year. He was among the league leaders
in that category last season. But it's it's been a struggle,
you know, inside the twenty yard line. Lamar Jackson has
had a forty two point five percent completion rate this season.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Uh and and that is really it's.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Lower than Dylan Gabriel Jackson Dart, you know. I mean,
it's been a drastic change from a year ago when
he had a seventy percent completion rate in the redsidence.
So we go from seventy percent to forty two and
a half percent.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
It's a big change. And why that is, I don't know.
You know, I mean, you think with d hop right,
that would help.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You know, here's a here's a fifty to fifty ball
winner in tight spaces, give him a chance, but just
hasn't hasn't come to fruition.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, they're gonna. If the Ravens are gonna put together
a run here in this final stretch, they're gonna simply
put need to be better in the red cente. Like
that's how they've lost games in recent weeks, and that
can't be the case if they're going to string together
some wins here to close out the regular season. Now,
flip it over to the defensive side of the ball.
It was a weird day for the defense, as we
(30:55):
talked about in the postgame podcast, because on one hand,
you're like, may you shut down the run? A lot
of good things you just gave up to me.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
When you win the line of scrimmage against the Pittsburgh Steelers,
you usually win the game.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Right now. They had blown assignments. There was the one
Jalen Warren touchdown that John Harbo said there were two
blown assignments on that play, but everything went wrong on
that one and he basically had a walk in touchdown,
took a screen pass untouched for forty yards at a
touchdown like that just can't happen. Like, you can do
a lot of things right, but if you give up
that it negates all the good work that you've been
able to do, so the Ravens know that they can't
(31:24):
have that. The thing that's interesting is that the Steelers
came into that game clearly intent on taking shots to
the DK Metcalf down the field. Now you play it
forward and it's Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow and that
high powered offense. And I wonder if it's going to
be a similar situation that the Bengal's gonna come in
(31:45):
and say, all right, we're gonna take some shots to
Jamar Chase down the field and see if we can't
hit some of those big plays that the Steelers just
hit a week ago.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Absolutely, it's a challenge for these outside corners and boundary corners,
specifically Marlon Humphrey.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I think, you know, when Marlin's.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Been so great around the line of scrimmage playing that
nickel role, but when he gets isot and manded man
outside sometimes seems to taking shots on him. And you know,
the Ravens have generally been good and Mann a man
kind of press man coverage.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
They just got beat. Now they apart got beat because
Aaron Rodgers made some freaking awesome throws. Yeah, I mean,
he he was.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I don't know what possessed Aaron Rodgers Sunday, but everything
was different from everything that he's done all season long.
So he was he was just I mean, we said
going into the game, like Aaron Rodgers can get hot
at any time.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
He was scorching hot.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, he was right hot, right hot.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And so you know, he made some great throws and
sometimes as a defensive back or a corner, as much
as you hate to do, you gotta tip your cap.
And DK metcalf made the plays too, you know, to
finish it.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
And so.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
You know, now to your point, Joe Burrow is very
capable of making those throws as well, and Jamar Chase
very capable of making those catches. So the assignment doesn't
get any easier here. Maybe because it just happened, you know,
the Ravens are going to be a little bit more
on alert for that. They would have been on alert
for that anyway going against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, you just you don't.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
You can't afford to tip your cap too much in
this game against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Put the calf Rey beak.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, yeah, like you do not want that. You can't
because like Jamar Chase might be the best receiver in football.
And Joe Burrow now going into his third game since
coming back, like, he looked good against the Ravens week one,
look even better last week in the snow in Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
To pick six that decided the game.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
But yeah, yeah, they put up a lot of points.
They put him ai that was a big play. They
put up a lot of points, Yes they did. He
looked good for the vast majority of that game. Yes,
And so I think that it's gonna be another really
tough assignment. One note on that that that's worth mentioning,
UH for relationship to the Bengals is t Higgins, who
did not play against the Bengals because if he did
(33:49):
not play against the Ravens on Thanksgiving because of concussion,
he is back in concussion protocol, went into the Blue
Tent and just checked out in the game, but then
came back and then on Monday goes into concussion protocol
for the Bengals. So his status is very much up
in the air. He's got two concussions over the course
of a month. I would think he's pretty unlikely to
play in this game against the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And Trey Hendrickson, who also didn't play on Thanksgiving, has
now had season ending surgery or muscle surgery exactly, so
he's done for the rest of the year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So the Ravens have four games left, they're gonna win
the division. You can play, you can you can get
into all these different scenarios. Here's an easy one. If
the Ravens went out, they win the division. That's correct, Like,
that's make it easy for the math people out there, like,
just win all four games and you win the division.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We all know how good are math, is right, we
like that kind of math.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Now beyond that, you you at a minimum, we're gonna
have to win your two games in the AFC North.
They have two games left.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
You don't have to, Okay, So what's the I guess,
there's I guess if the bank, if the Steelers, Yeah,
that's like you play. There's seven different ways that the
Ravens can get in and still be AFC North champions,
I should say. And a lot of winning out is
the best winning three of four, including against the division
rivals to your point, and then you would need the
(35:08):
Steelers to win one of their other three or lose
one of their other three.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Games.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, they play against the Miami defense who have won
four straight, the Detroit Lions in Detroit, very good, talented team,
and they play on the road against the Cleveland Browns, who,
by the way, their defense looked bad against the Titans, surprisingly,
but s Sanders put off some numbers and it's gonna
be the Browns starter for the rainder of the season.
Like playing in Cleveland if Sanders is playing well in
(35:33):
their defense. Not not a GiMA game. That's not a
gimme game. Detroit certainly not a gaming game, and neither
is Miami on Monday Night football, it's in Pittsburgh. But
like Miami's playing ball and so so. Yeah, If the
Ravens win three of four, including both games against their
division rivals the Bengals and Week eighteen in Pittsburgh, and
the Steelers lose one of their other three games, Ravens
(35:55):
are division champions. If the Ravens beat their division rivals
but don't beat Green Bay or New England, right, so
you beat you win two of the next four, then
the Steelers would need to lose two of those other
three games. Possible, possible, they could lose Miami. Whatever, we
just went through it Okay, you win, they they still could.
(36:17):
Everybody's going to say it's a must win against the Bengals,
which I mostly agree with. Yeah, technically it's not, huh okay.
So if the Ravens were to lose the Bengals then
win the final three, the Steelers would need to lose
in Cleveland. It would only take us loss to the
to the Browns, right, the Ravens would have to beat
the Steelers, and if the Steelers lost to the Browns,
(36:38):
Ravens division champs, or the Steelers would have to lose
against both the Dolphins and Lions.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Possible. Okay, I'll lose out.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Just what's the scenario? How about Steelers lose out? Can
we go to that scenario?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I thought you were going to say the raven The
Ravens can get in at seven and ten, they can
win the division at seven and ten. Alright, I mean
I don't over see that. Yeah, I don't mind if
that anyway. So I'm not gonna say I don't want
to see that happen. It's not the easiest way in,
but I'll take it. I'm just I'm not going to
go through all of them. But there's other ways in it. Eight.
There's ways in it at obviously, if you went out
(37:11):
you're ten and seven, you can get in at nine
and eight multiple ways. You can get in multiple ways
at eight and nine. You can even get in at
seven and ten, and so there's enough paths here for
the Ravens.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, I question is seven and ten and eight nine
pass are pretty unlikely to me, I think it was
pretty highly unlikely. I don't think seven and ten obviously
is very highly Yeah, I think I don't think are
going to finish eight nine.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
You don't think they'll lose two more of the rest away,
including one to the to the Ravens.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Right, I think I think that they're going to I mean, look,
how many times have you heard the stat over the
course of time that they've never had they've never had
a losing season.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, I feel there's twenty year body of evidence that
they're not going to have a losing season. I feel
four games left where they are, I don't think that
they would.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I think that there's I think that there's a pretty
decent chance that the Steelers lose one of three to
the Dolphins, Lions, Browns. Okay, the Ravens that then have
to beat the Steelers in week eighteen. So I think
that there's like actually a decent shot that the Ravens
could get in.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
At nine and eight.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Unlikely, Yeah, unlikely, But the Ravens have pads, right, and
and like you said at the inning, they still control
their own destiny.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It's up to them. You go out there and win. Baby,
You're good, You're You're in. And so the question is
can they do that at this point?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Right, we have a lot of weeks of football played here,
and the Ravens have not including back to back losses
at home to your division rivals in which they haven't
played a complete game. They really haven't played a complete
game all season, right, where like all three facets are
doing well and so like, and and the Ravens schedule
(38:56):
is tough.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
You lost to both these division rivals at home. Now
you gotta beat him on the road.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Plus you have the New England Patriots, who are gunning
for the number one seed. Have been really when you
look at the across the NFL, the Patriots have been
the most consistent team in the league.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, they might be the best team, They might be
the best team in the league.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
They but they're they're on a ten game winning streak,
I believe, so gonna be tough. That game, by the way,
has been flexed to Sunday Night football. Was going to
be a one o'clock kickoff here at MPT Banks team
now on Sunday Night football.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I think that's to the Ravens advantage.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Honestly, we all know what the night game atmosphere is, like,
Drake may second your quarterback. Now you're on primetime. Baltimore's rocking,
better be rocking, Like that's gonna be a big time
awesome game. Yeah, I think that helps the Ravens a
little bit. And then out in Green Bay, I mean, goodness, Grace,
the Green Bay Packers are really good and winning in
(39:50):
Lambeau in late December tough, and so Ravens have the
work cutout for him. There are their talent, as we've
been saying all season long, they're talented enough to do it,
but you gotta do it, you gotta put together and
like that's there's been a disconnect there.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
They haven't put it all together.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, so we'll see, of course, how all of this
plays out. As always, you can email us at the
lounge at Ravens dot NFL dot net. We appreciate you
emailing and listening to the show. Thank you so much,
and we'll be back with you again later this week.
Welcome into the Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan mink
He with Garrett Downing. We've had time to think about
the ravens twenty seven to twenty two loss to the
Pittsburgh Steelers as well as here from head coach.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
John Harball on Monday, and we're.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Going to break down some of the takeaways from that
game as the Ravens moved forward with four games left
in the regular season, as well as look ahead to
some of the injury news and things to look forward
to in that matchup coming up against the Bengals on Sunday. So, Garrett, certainly,
a lot of the talk since Sunday's loss to the
Steelers has still been about the officiating and the three
(00:41):
critical calls really that went against the Ravens that honestly
played a big part in determining this game. How big
You can never say, right, did they cost the Ravens game?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
You can never say, But they were three big calls.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
All three went against the Ravens, and the Ravens I
think a lot of people want to clarity coming out
of that whole situation, including the Ravens. Yeah, head coach
down Harball, General manager Eric Tacassa and others spoke with,
requested to speak with the NFL, which is kind of
a rare thing about those calls, and did so Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, they asked for a call. They had the call
with Perry Fuel, who's the NFL Senior Vice President of Officiating,
a former NFL coach, longtime coach, as well as Walt
Coleman at the league office on the officiating side. And
so they had a call with them and talked through
those three plays in particular. And this, as you mentioned,
is not something It's not like there's a Monday morning
(01:36):
call every week, but the calls on the field and
with the replay operation rose to the level that the
Ravens initiated this call with the league. It brought some
it was an opportunity to be heard. I think it
brought clarity in some situations and not necessarily clarity in others.
And the fact is, and of course the Ravens knew
(01:59):
this before you even go into the call. Like you
hear the NFL hears them out. They're not saying, all right,
let's head back to McBay Stadium and change the rule
on one of these things and play it out from there,
like you're not going to give the Ravens a win,
They're not going to change the calls retroactively, Like that's
of course not going to happen. It's more of an
opportunity to be heard and to take learnings from it
(02:21):
moving forward.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, and you just want an explanation, honestly, you know,
it just like played a large factor in you losing
a big time game that we all talk about was
a playoff game is to you know, see who as
going to be in first place in the AFC Norse
so huge, huge calls, and honestly, you just want answers.
Like I went to bed Sunday night and woke up
(02:44):
again on Monday morning being like hell, like, you know,
I've got these follow up questions that I want to know.
I want to know what they say about that, and
so I think the Ravens, you know, John Harball and
Eric Goss woke up with those same questions.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Probably well.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
One area of clarity that we did get and John
Harbaugh shared this was that the NFL acknowledged fault. They
made the wrong call on the unnecessary roughness call on
Travis Jones.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Now that was not a replay that was just the
wrong call on the field.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yep, through a flag in that moment. The rule on
that play, just for listeners to know, is that the
center the long snapper is a defenseless player and as
because of that, you are not able to make any
forceable contact to the head and neck area that did.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Not have allowed to lower your helmet. You're not allowed
to launch yourself at that point.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right, Just like a receiver going over the middle of
the field who's a defensives player, same applies.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
To the doesn't mean they can't be knocked over, doesn't
mean they can't be contacted. Which Travis Jones tried to
split the gap between the long snapper and the guard
just like I said after the game, and in doing so,
Travis Jones is a large man and c J o'coya
on the other side also they both tried to get
through that gap and knocked him out.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, they basically ran over the long staffer and starting
the contact with the guards next to him, and so
they called the penalty. The official set after the game
and the pool report basically they felt like the level
of contact rose to the unnecessary roughness call. But as
the NFL told John Harbor, and he said in his
press conference on Monday that that was not the right call.
(04:20):
They missed that one, and the NFL actually told Harball
that he could share that news publicly, which he did.
Then they acknowledged that that was the wrong call.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Which I think the I do credit the league for
saying that. Right, it feels like and the complaint that
you often hear is that there's no accountability right, and
there's no like, ah, we screwed that up, my bad,
and so like to admit that does give you a
little bit of peace with the situation.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Again, it doesn't change the result.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And by the way that that flag gave the Steiler,
it didn't give the Steelers. It opened the door for
the Steelers to get four more points. It resulted in
a four point swing, That's what it did because the
ring of the Steelers, right, the Steelers are going to
kick a kicked a field goal that was successful. Instead,
it gave them a fresh said downs and they scored
a touchdown. So if not for that flag, there would
(05:14):
have been four fewer points on the board for the Steelers,
which in a five point win, changes everything, right. I
mean the Ravens a when they went forward on fourth
and five, they would have kicked a field goal. Of course,
right after the Isaiah likely touchdown was wiped off the board.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
They would kick a field goal to.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Take a two point lead, or they would have been
in a kick a field goal at the end of
the game situation instead of having to drive down the
field and score a touchdown. Now, of course you can
all play that out right. The Steelers might not have
run the ball three straight times or whatever it was
on their last drive. They would have been approaching that
situation differently had they been losing at the time, not winning.
So you can never say, but four points in a
(05:52):
five point game would have been a big deal.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That was a massive call in that moment, and it's disappointing,
and the truth be told like that that happens, that
calls get missed, But it was the it was the
three stacked on top that one was rule incorrectly.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
The The annoying part about that, though, is that there
seemed to be not a full understanding of the rule
because because in the explanation of that, it wasn't like
the the referee came on after the game when the
pool report and said like, yeah, after seeing the replay.
I kind of blew that call, you know. It was like, well,
you just ran him over and you can't run him over. Well,
(06:33):
you can run him over, it's just like you can't
make forcible contact to the head or neck area, right,
So like that that's a little bit of the frustration there,
I would say.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah. Then on the other two calls, John Harbaugh described it,
the Isaiah likely one is the one that everybody's talking about.
And that's that's the headline, that's the discussion point that
everybody's having. Getting my haircut in the barbershop today, everybody's
talking about that call.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Haircut.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I appreciate that. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Everybody's talking about that call.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And and so the John Harball said, it's basically clear
as mud right now on the rule at how it's officiated. Again,
the way the rule reads right now is there's three
elements of the catch. You need possession of it. Then
you need two feet down after the bunce in bounds.
Of course, after those two things are completed, then you
need a third element. The third element of the catch
(07:21):
is a football move. And a football move could be
extending the football, it could be it could be a spin.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Move awarding off a defender, that's the other.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
It could be a third step that's also or the
time to make a football move. So if you caught
the ball, you just were standing still for ten seconds,
you have the time to make that.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Which which we haven't really discussed enough, like did Isaiah
likely have enough time to make after the second step
to make a football move? The key element here, I think,
and why this is and I agree with John Harball,
this is clear as mud is that the word after
to me is is the key element here because Isaiah
(08:02):
likely when he caught that ball as soon as he
caught it, okay, check the box number one, and really
as soon as he caught it, there wasn't an element
of is he going to be in bounds? Yeah, of
course he was in the middle of the end zone.
So check number two immediately also right, he's in right,
and then he extends the ball like in the same motion. Right,
So like he quickly checked the first two boxes. Number
(08:24):
three years checked, Like why why does it have to
be one, two, three, right? Like like insequential order. That's
that's the part that it's like what and like he
was warding off the defender, he was still in the process,
like you have to start the ball extension after the
second foot comes down, Like why what what sense does
(08:46):
that make? And he was still in the process of
warding off the defender. If you're gonna that's that's what
he was doing. He was warding off the defend. He
was in the process of doing that after he got
the second foot down. Yeah, So like if you're talking
about a sequence of events, yeah, he was in the
he did that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, the argument can be made that that was his
the extension of the football and the continued extension of
the football was the football move right.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Now now, but the he extended he's So that's what
I wish that I was on that phone call Harves
and Eric didn't patch me in which I would have
liked to next time, you know, But like, that's what
I would like to know if that was I'm sure
that was discussed during the call, Like why The question
(09:33):
is why was Isaiah Likely's extension of the ball not
considered a football move? And secondarily, why was his warding
off of Joey Porter junior of the defender not considered
the third element of that a football move?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Right? Then the other piece of this, of course, The
third play was the Aaron Rodgers catch that took an
interception off the board, and that's part of the frustration
for the Ravens. On both of these, Isaiah Likely's rule
to time down on the field, the Teddy Buchanan interception
ruled an interception on the field. Both of them go
to replay and get overturned. And on the Isaiah Likely
(10:08):
one sorry. On the Teddy Buchanan interception and Rogers goes up,
he has control of it, but then his knee goes down.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Both have control of it.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, they're basically fighting for the football. It goes down,
Teddy Buchanan comes up with it again. Rule does an
interception on the field, replayer returns it says he was
down And so both of those situations are basically the
catch rule and the description around it.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But that's the question.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's what I would love to know, is that in
the ruling of that when they were reviewing that, were
they reviewing it as if Aaron Rodgers was a receiver
or a ball carrier. He was a receiver, that's how
he should it should be reviewed. But the way the
rules overturning it was applying the rule as if he
were a ball carrier, like if he if he's just
(10:54):
getting sacked or whatever, and he has possession of the
ball and there's kind of a wrestling that for it
and he gets his knees down, Okay, yeah, it's done. However,
if he's a receiver, right like and there's a competition
for the ball, he didn't complete a football act. Yeah,
you know, once his knees hit once, which is his
(11:17):
knees hitting we're number two, right, check number one, he
possessed it in his hands, he had it in his hands.
Number two, his knees hit the ground. So that's the
two steps or in knee or whatever it is. Number
three because this is in the field of play and
all that stuff is a football act. Yeah right, Well,
the football act he never completed, and by the end
of the play, Teddy Buchana had the ball.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Right Basically, in that situation, you have to survive the
catch to the ground exactly like, because you can't do
a spin move or you can't extend the ball as
you're going. You have to basically survive the ground.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
It's actually a pretty good example of this is flashback
to last season a wheel route to Justice Hill deep
down the field against their rookie linebacker Peyton and he
in Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh and it was kind of both
guys had the ball and Peyton came away with it. Yeah,
(12:10):
when they hit the ground and he came away with it.
Steelers interception. Yeah, same situation here.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, that both guys have their hands on it, they're
fighting for it going to the ground. One guy comes
up with it. Now again that the tie goes to
the runner, to a shared possession goes to the offense.
But you have to but the question there is was
was possession established? And that's the that is what was
certainly murky on that. And so you know, I think
that with with this, as you like move it forward,
(12:39):
I do wonder if there will be discussion this offseason
about adjusting the ketcherl The catcher has been adjusted and
tweaked and dissected and and and looked at many different times.
And so Dallas Cowboys fans are looking at the sand
that you guys want to talk about a catch. Let's
talk about that des Bryant play back in the playoffs.
So like that is uh, it's it's definitely a converse
(13:00):
that is this is not the last catch debate that
exists out there, but I do wonder if there will
be any process of reviewing or tweaking that rule this offseason.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, Terry McCauley, a former NFL referee, you know, he
he said in reviewing the play that he does think
that the rules should be changed again.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And here's a long time.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Former NFL referee tweeted that, and so I think that,
like he said, the keyword.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Being after and the whole, the whole.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Honestly, if if you don't change that rule after seeing
the Isaiah Likely play, I think that more defenders are
going to be lighting up wide receivers and stuff in
the end zone right like they're gonna be like all right,
like it, because clearly the layman would watch that play
and say, all right, Likely just scored a touchdown. Plays over,
(13:54):
You're gonna have defenders that are coming in and just
blasting people late after the catch. And I guarantee there's
gonna be flags if this if this whole like, okay,
he has to make a juke move after catching the
touchdown for its a count, or he has to stick
the ball out, or he has to do all this
stuff for it the count like And the crazy part is,
(14:15):
you know, if if Isaiah likely is in the back
of the end zone and catches that two feet down
and then falls out of bounds, doesn't make a football move.
He falls out of bounds, it's a touchdown. But because
he's in the middle of the end zone, he has
to do an extra step to prove that it's a touchdown.
It's just it's it's just all kind of wonky. That's
why I think it's the clearers mud. I agree, And
(14:37):
you know, it's it's it's difficult because there's like you
try to make it so black and white, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
You know, the time element.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Did Isaiah likely have enough time to do something that's
that's gray? Yeah, you know, and was was he extending
the ball? At what point was he extending the ball?
Was does a count if it's already extended his account,
if he's already wearing the opponent. Yeah, Like so it's
it's it's difficult.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah. So again, it doesn't change anything. But the Raiders
did have that call in that conversation, and and I
think they got they received an explanation. But now after that,
you basically have to turn the page and move forward.
Because again, as we keep saying, nothing is going to
change from that game.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
John Harball did say that Isaiah likely is not coached
to hold the ball out like that after making a
catching me that pretty darn clear, and you know likely
has to hold onto that ball. That's that's like at
the end of the day, right, Like, I don't care
if the defenders hitting the ball whatever. Your job is
to secure the football. And I know what he was
(15:41):
trying to do, but that's not what he's supposed to do.
You tuck that thing and get down and and uh
so you know he has fault on the play as well.
I think I don't like the call, but but if
he did what he was coached to do, it wouldn't
have been It wouldn't happen if I.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Hold onto the ball and take three more steps than
you're fine.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Exactly, I mean, and looking at the slowbo replay a
thousand times so as I have done, you know, I
don't think portered it and seem to get the ball.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You know, he hit his arm and so you gotta
have better grip on the ball.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It's kind of like the previous week when he's when
he's going into the end zone, against the Bengals and
the ball gets hit out of his arm, and you know,
John Harball said, I don't have a problem with extending
the ball for the goal line, but I have a
problem when you fumble it when you do right.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So if you're gonna do it, you gotta hold on
to it tight enough.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
And it's also the situations, like you need to be
cognizant of the situation that you're in when you're extending
the ball at the goal line. Other defenders right on you,
are you in space? Like what is the scenario that
you're extending it? And I mean for the going back
two weeks now to that Bengals game, he definitely didn't
need to extend it. He finished to play eight yards
into the end zone. So he could have just run
into the end zone and held it high and tight
(16:49):
and he would have been fine.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, he jumped, he lateraled a guy and got loose
with it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Basically, yeah, exactly, But I'm saying that if he had
just held it lateral and held onto it tight, he
still ended up eight yards in the en zone, it
would have been touched. So he does have to have
better ball security around the goal line and in the
end zone, and I'm sure that that's going to be
a major focus for him.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Before we move on, because I'll never move on. There
was one other penalty that was a really big penalty
that wasn't really talked about very much, which was the
holding call on the Steelers' final punt of the game,
and which was the punt to set up the Ravens
potential game winning drive. You know, they were trying to
(17:28):
off a game winning drive. The Ravens KeAndre Jackson was
called for a hold. You go back and watch that,
you know, the Ravens try to put the gunner and
a vice. They had two guys on him, very kind
of suspect. I mean, Jackson's Caandre is kind of blocking
his shoulder. The guy ends up on the ground, he
(17:49):
gets blasted, but I think it was Keon Martin was
the other guy with KeAndre Jackson. Kean just blasts him legally,
so he ends up on the ground and gets back
to his feet, you know, and then the referee literally
fifty yards away through as the flag, like I mean
literally and so that and that was.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
A huge penalty. It was an eighteen yard penalty.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Instead of the Ravens starting in very good field position.
They're back at the twenty six, right, they would have
been at the forty four, and then a holding penalty
backs them up to the sixteen.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, you're just going out the next play.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So yeah, two plays lost twenty eight yards basically on
back to back plays on what could have been a
game winning drive.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So yeah, just a tough pill swallow across the board
when you're on the opposite end, the wrong end of
those types of calls.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Why I don't like taking pills. Yeah, exactually so then
the worst.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
So we're gonna take a quick break when we come back,
will dissect the rest of Harboss press conference as well,
start looking ahead to the upcoming game against the Bengals.
You're listening to the last podcast we're coming to you
from the Sekik Studio. We want to mention our partners
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(19:03):
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help My Gambling Problem dot org for more information. So
some other notes coming out of John Harbus's press conference
(19:25):
on Monday. One of them was the offensive line. A
lot of discussion about the Ravens offensive line was up
and down in this game against the Steelers, had some
bad moments in key situations and just not good enough
play and that that's kind of been a theme. Emvery Jones,
who we did see against the Bengals in a rotation,
the rookie third round pick who made his debut against
(19:46):
the Bengals, did not play at all in this game,
was not used in a rotation. He was using a
left guard rotation with Andrew Verhees the previous week, but
was not used at all in this game. So the
Ravens just roll with where He's at left guard and
a laile Off at right guard. And so John Harwall
talked about the offensive line and basically his overall take
(20:07):
was it was good and run blocking, which was what
you'd expect. The Rams had over two hundred yards on
the ground. But they had some they had some bad
miscuse and pass protection at guard, and those those were costly.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, I think that, uh, you know, what's what's hurt
Daniel Foul and Andrew Voorhees at times is like when
there's been mistakes, especially in pass protection, they look bad,
you know. I mean it's like quick wins, and those
are tough to handle, and and they just they look
(20:41):
bad right to anybody watching the film and and to
the CBS broadcast that pointed him out and whatnot, and
so that that's not helping. Lamar Jackson helped mask some
of that, I thought against the Steelers more than he
has been in previous weeks when he was more banged up.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
And and but.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Those are limiting the Ravens offense at times. You know,
you have too many of those quick wins. On the
other side, they're negative plays. They can be they often
are negative plays that can really set you back. So
I think it's certainly fair to say that the Ravens
wish there was more consistency there.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
You look around the whole league also, I.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Think you know us here in Baltimore, you're watching your
own offensive line every single week, so you know you're
very well versed in all the losses and they leave
scars and you watch other games around the league, you
see other guards and guys getting beat to, Like that's
just you're every position, right, The Ravens had key drops
in this game. Every position's going to have mistakes at times,
(21:48):
the offensive line especially like when you give up clean
losses like that, like it's bad, but like you're never
going to bat a thousand, You're not going to pass
protect and win every single it's just not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I think that as the Ravens in this these final
four games with the regular season, they know they have
to get to get better guard play and that's gonna
that's been a focal point for much of this year.
But you can't have in past pass blocking situations the
like to your point of the easy wins, you can't
give up those situations where defensive line is in the
(22:22):
backfield are no time flat.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
John Harwall basically said in describing one of those, he
said that Daniel fodd Leley basically pass set as if
it was a play action play and it was just
a straight drop.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Back, and so those have different sets and he just
did the wrong one.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
You know, a lot of fans have been clamoring for
Emery Jones, the third round rookie who missed the entire
offseason because of shoulder surgery following the combine. As you mentioned,
he was in a rotation with Andrew Fourhees. John Harwall
did say, basically, yeah, Emery did. He did okay in
his sixteen reps that he has against the Bengals, he
(23:04):
did okay, but he didn't outplay the other two guys.
He said, he didn't outplay him, and he didn't play
the same that he was in their evaluation, worse than
those two guys. If you were better, he would have
the job. Like, make no bones about it. The Ravens
want the best five. Yeah, there's no there's nothing outside
of that, no ulteriear motives, there's no you know, allegiances.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
They want the best five.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
They they basically said, all right, we're gonna give Emery
Jones a look, because you never know until he has
game reps, We're gonna give him a look.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
They gave him a look.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Didn't feel like it was as good as the other two,
and of course practice matters in that decision. Too, But
for that reason they went with Andrew. Wordis that doesn't
mean Emory Jones can at some point and get another look.
But that's the situation for now.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
The other guy that we've been asked about a lot
over the last couple of years really is Bank Cleveland.
He was inactive on game day and on Monday, the
NFL annolynceid he's been suspended three games for violating the
league's policy on substance abuse, So he's out for the
next three games. So he's not going to be in
that mix with that offensive line rotation. Now. Another thing
coming out of the press conference on Monday was DeAndre
(24:11):
Hopkins and John Harball was pretty clear about the desire
to get him more involved in the offense. And I
agree with this Hopkins, and he has not received a
ton of snaps this year. The Ravens have used him
in spot duty, I would say, and situationally, yeah, And
John Harball even made that point that, like, he's not
a guy that at this point of his career that
(24:32):
he's going to play one hundred percent of the snaps.
But he's been impactful when he has been on the field.
He's drawn pis, he's hit some big plays, especially early
in the season, come up with some clutch catches when
the Ravens need to move the chains, Like he's got
the best hands on the team and he's got Hall
of Fame hands, and the Ravens want to He's an asset.
And so I think that for this final month here,
(24:55):
I think there's gonna be a heavier diet of DeAndre
Hopkins in this offense.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, and he hasn't been targeted more than four times
in a game yet this season. He had one target
against the Steelers and didn't have a catch. That was
the third time this year that he's been held without
a catch. I agree with you it Also, you know,
Rashad Batman ain't putting up crazy numbers either. He had
(25:19):
a key drop on a third down in the red zone.
So if you're taking if Rashad loses some snaps to
d Hop like that, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I think at this point.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
DeAndre Hopkins, Uh, it's been a tough it's I think
it's been a challenging season for him. And John Harvill
said he and d Hop have really bonded and had
some very honest conversations. You know, de Hop came here
expecting to win, joining the team that everybody was talking
about with had the best roster in the NFL. He's
a guy that wants to win to Super Bowl badly
before he hangs it up, and felt like he would
(25:50):
have a very good chance of doing that here in Baltimore.
You know, uniting with Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry just
hasn't materialized.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Like Lamar even said after the game when talking about
the game, that you know, he brought in some new
pieces and he called out specifically DeAndre Hopkins. It's like
we brought him in here.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Didn't come here for this.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
It didn't come here for this. I didn't expect this
to be the situation where we're six to seven with
four games left to play, and so Lamar clearly wants
to get him, get him the ball and win games.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And like the hop hasn't scored a touchdown since Week
two against the Browns. Yeah, and he had two spectacular
catches touch on catches in the first two weeks, the
one in Buffalo, the one hander and then a long,
kind of sliding impressive catch against the Browns. So the
Ravens have struggled in the red zone all year, long,
give me some more d Hop in the red zone.
I'll take I'll take that specifically. You know, there was
(26:38):
one kind of end zone fade to Zay Flowers. Uh.
You know Zay made a spectacular over the shoulder catch
on the Ravens opening drive. Yeah, spectacular catch. But then
they kind of went back to the well with less
field to play with and on an end zone shot
that went incomplete.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
To me, I'd like to see d Hop get that. Yeah,
and you know part of it is Lamar.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Also they took a shot to d' hot, but Lamar
threw it out of bounds and you got to keep
that ball in bounds and give him a chance to
make a play on it. This is DeAndre Hopkins. Yeah,
he's a fifty to fifty ball winner. Yeah, but he
can't win and when it's out of bounds. So you
know that's part of it too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Well, also on the fourth down play on the Ravens
second to last drive, Lamar threw passing the end zone.
It's unclear if it was going to Mark Andrews or
DeAndre Hopkins. You look at the back angle, it looks
like he was going towards DeAndre Hopkins.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Pretty confident it was going to d. Hop intended for
d yup.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
And Mark went up and tried to get it with
one hand. Also felt like the defender tugged on his
jersey on that play. And you know, we'll never know
if if that ball would have gotten to Hopkins. There
were two defenders coming in on the play, and would
it have gotten there, I don't know, But he was
there and his reaction after the play, you know, he
he thought it was coming to him. He thought he
was if it would have got to him, of course
(27:52):
he would have caught it, you know, So disappointing that
that wasn't able to material that that kind of speaks
to the Ravens issues in this game and in the
red zone and over the course of the season. Like
all that is kind of a microcosm of what the
team has been this year. And so I think that,
like to my eye, Hopkins has been a really good
piece this year, and I'd like to see him get
more action, and it sounds like that's going to be
(28:12):
a priority for this team. And I think he can
help in the red zone, and the Ravens need help
in the red zone. They just haven't been good enough
these past couple of games honestly all season that's been
issued throughout the year in the red zone, and it's
always tough because it's like, on one hand, like, what
was the issue of the red zone this game, Well,
that Isaiah likely played that we just spent fifteen minutes
talking about, like if that's a touchdown, and then we're
(28:34):
having a different conversation about the red zone if that
ball gets to Hopkins on the play I just described
that fourth down play, we're having a different conversation about
the red zone struggles. But they didn't, and so here
we are, and that has been kind of this team's
undoing offensively at times, and they need to be more
(28:54):
productive at getting touchdowns when they get to that part
of the field.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, they haven't run the ball particularly well when they've
gotten down there. That has been a struggle that goes
back to our offensive line conversation in part, certainly Lamar
not running the ball as much hurts that. Now that
changed in this game. He had a rushing touchdowns first
since week one. So maybe Lamar feeling better physically and
(29:20):
little more is more of a threat around the goal line,
which certainly helps a great amount. You know, when you
are rolling Lamar out, as the Ravens often do, to
try to also afford him more protection and change the
the you know, they're not just teeing off on Lamar
in the backfield. Him being able to tuck it and
run certainly makes that a more threatening play. And so
(29:43):
that's been another factor. And then you know, Lamar Jackson
just has not completed as many passes down in the
red zone this year. He was among the league leaders
in that category last season. But it's it's been a struggle,
you know, inside the twenty yard line. Lamar Jackson has
had a forty two point five percent completion rate this season.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Uh and and that is really it's.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Lower than Dylan Gabriel Jackson Dart, you know. I mean,
it's been a drastic change from a year ago when
he had a seventy percent completion rate in the redsidence.
So we go from seventy percent to forty two and
a half percent.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
It's a big change. And why that is, I don't know.
You know, I mean, you think with d hop right,
that would help.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You know, here's a here's a fifty to fifty ball
winner in tight spaces, give him a chance, but just
hasn't hasn't come to fruition.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, they're gonna. If the Ravens are gonna put together
a run here in this final stretch, they're gonna simply
put need to be better in the red cente. Like
that's how they've lost games in recent weeks, and that
can't be the case if they're going to string together
some wins here to close out the regular season. Now,
flip it over to the defensive side of the ball.
It was a weird day for the defense, as we
(30:55):
talked about in the postgame podcast, because on one hand,
you're like, may you shut down the run? A lot
of good things you just gave up to me.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
When you win the line of scrimmage against the Pittsburgh Steelers,
you usually win the game.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Right now. They had blown assignments. There was the one
Jalen Warren touchdown that John Harbo said there were two
blown assignments on that play, but everything went wrong on
that one and he basically had a walk in touchdown,
took a screen pass untouched for forty yards at a
touchdown like that just can't happen. Like, you can do
a lot of things right, but if you give up
that it negates all the good work that you've been
able to do, so the Ravens know that they can't
(31:24):
have that. The thing that's interesting is that the Steelers
came into that game clearly intent on taking shots to
the DK Metcalf down the field. Now you play it
forward and it's Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow and that
high powered offense. And I wonder if it's going to
be a similar situation that the Bengal's gonna come in
(31:45):
and say, all right, we're gonna take some shots to
Jamar Chase down the field and see if we can't
hit some of those big plays that the Steelers just
hit a week ago.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Absolutely, it's a challenge for these outside corners and boundary corners,
specifically Marlon Humphrey.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I think, you know, when Marlin's.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Been so great around the line of scrimmage playing that
nickel role, but when he gets isot and manded man
outside sometimes seems to taking shots on him. And you know,
the Ravens have generally been good and Mann a man
kind of press man coverage.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
They just got beat. Now they apart got beat because
Aaron Rodgers made some freaking awesome throws. Yeah, I mean,
he he was.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I don't know what possessed Aaron Rodgers Sunday, but everything
was different from everything that he's done all season long.
So he was he was just I mean, we said
going into the game, like Aaron Rodgers can get hot
at any time.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
He was scorching hot.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yeah, he was right hot, right hot.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And so you know, he made some great throws and
sometimes as a defensive back or a corner, as much
as you hate to do, you gotta tip your cap.
And DK metcalf made the plays too, you know, to
finish it.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
And so.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
You know, now to your point, Joe Burrow is very
capable of making those throws as well, and Jamar Chase
very capable of making those catches. So the assignment doesn't
get any easier here. Maybe because it just happened, you know,
the Ravens are going to be a little bit more
on alert for that. They would have been on alert
for that anyway going against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, you just you don't.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
You can't afford to tip your cap too much in
this game against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Put the calf Rey beak.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, yeah, like you do not want that. You can't
because like Jamar Chase might be the best receiver in football.
And Joe Burrow now going into his third game since
coming back, like, he looked good against the Ravens week one,
look even better last week in the snow in Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
To pick six that decided the game.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
But yeah, yeah, they put up a lot of points.
They put him ai that was a big play. They
put up a lot of points, Yes they did. He
looked good for the vast majority of that game. Yes,
And so I think that it's gonna be another really
tough assignment. One note on that that that's worth mentioning,
UH for relationship to the Bengals is t Higgins, who
did not play against the Bengals because if he did
(33:49):
not play against the Ravens on Thanksgiving because of concussion,
he is back in concussion protocol, went into the Blue
Tent and just checked out in the game, but then
came back and then on Monday goes into concussion protocol
for the Bengals. So his status is very much up
in the air. He's got two concussions over the course
of a month. I would think he's pretty unlikely to
play in this game against the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And Trey Hendrickson, who also didn't play on Thanksgiving, has
now had season ending surgery or muscle surgery exactly, so
he's done for the rest of the year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So the Ravens have four games left, they're gonna win
the division. You can play, you can you can get
into all these different scenarios. Here's an easy one. If
the Ravens went out, they win the division. That's correct, Like,
that's make it easy for the math people out there, like,
just win all four games and you win the division.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We all know how good are math, is right, we
like that kind of math.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Now beyond that, you you at a minimum, we're gonna
have to win your two games in the AFC North.
They have two games left.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
You don't have to, Okay, So what's the I guess,
there's I guess if the bank, if the Steelers, Yeah,
that's like you play. There's seven different ways that the
Ravens can get in and still be AFC North champions,
I should say. And a lot of winning out is
the best winning three of four, including against the division
rivals to your point, and then you would need the
(35:08):
Steelers to win one of their other three or lose
one of their other three.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Games.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, they play against the Miami defense who have won
four straight, the Detroit Lions in Detroit, very good, talented team,
and they play on the road against the Cleveland Browns, who,
by the way, their defense looked bad against the Titans, surprisingly,
but s Sanders put off some numbers and it's gonna
be the Browns starter for the rainder of the season.
Like playing in Cleveland if Sanders is playing well in
(35:33):
their defense. Not not a GiMA game. That's not a
gimme game. Detroit certainly not a gaming game, and neither
is Miami on Monday Night football, it's in Pittsburgh. But
like Miami's playing ball and so so. Yeah, If the
Ravens win three of four, including both games against their
division rivals the Bengals and Week eighteen in Pittsburgh, and
the Steelers lose one of their other three games, Ravens
(35:55):
are division champions. If the Ravens beat their division rivals
but don't beat Green Bay or New England, right, so
you beat you win two of the next four, then
the Steelers would need to lose two of those other
three games. Possible, possible, they could lose Miami. Whatever, we
just went through it Okay, you win, they they still could.
(36:17):
Everybody's going to say it's a must win against the Bengals,
which I mostly agree with. Yeah, technically it's not, huh okay.
So if the Ravens were to lose the Bengals then
win the final three, the Steelers would need to lose
in Cleveland. It would only take us loss to the
to the Browns, right, the Ravens would have to beat
the Steelers, and if the Steelers lost to the Browns,
(36:38):
Ravens division champs, or the Steelers would have to lose
against both the Dolphins and Lions.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Possible. Okay, I'll lose out.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Just what's the scenario? How about Steelers lose out? Can
we go to that scenario?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I thought you were going to say the raven The
Ravens can get in at seven and ten, they can
win the division at seven and ten. Alright, I mean
I don't over see that. Yeah, I don't mind if
that anyway. So I'm not gonna say I don't want
to see that happen. It's not the easiest way in,
but I'll take it. I'm just I'm not going to
go through all of them. But there's other ways in it. Eight.
There's ways in it at obviously, if you went out
(37:11):
you're ten and seven, you can get in at nine
and eight multiple ways. You can get in multiple ways
at eight and nine. You can even get in at
seven and ten, and so there's enough paths here for
the Ravens.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, I question is seven and ten and eight nine
pass are pretty unlikely to me, I think it was
pretty highly unlikely. I don't think seven and ten obviously
is very highly Yeah, I think I don't think are
going to finish eight nine.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
You don't think they'll lose two more of the rest away,
including one to the to the Ravens.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Right, I think I think that they're going to I mean, look,
how many times have you heard the stat over the
course of time that they've never had they've never had
a losing season.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, I feel there's twenty year body of evidence that
they're not going to have a losing season. I feel
four games left where they are, I don't think that
they would.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I think that there's I think that there's a pretty
decent chance that the Steelers lose one of three to
the Dolphins, Lions, Browns. Okay, the Ravens that then have
to beat the Steelers in week eighteen. So I think
that there's like actually a decent shot that the Ravens
could get in.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
At nine and eight.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Unlikely, Yeah, unlikely, But the Ravens have pads, right, and
and like you said at the inning, they still control
their own destiny.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It's up to them. You go out there and win. Baby,
You're good, You're You're in. And so the question is
can they do that at this point?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Right, we have a lot of weeks of football played here,
and the Ravens have not including back to back losses
at home to your division rivals in which they haven't
played a complete game. They really haven't played a complete
game all season, right, where like all three facets are
doing well and so like, and and the Ravens schedule
(38:56):
is tough.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
You lost to both these division rivals at home. Now
you gotta beat him on the road.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Plus you have the New England Patriots, who are gunning
for the number one seed. Have been really when you
look at the across the NFL, the Patriots have been
the most consistent team in the league.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, they might be the best team, They might be
the best team in the league.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
They but they're they're on a ten game winning streak,
I believe, so gonna be tough. That game, by the way,
has been flexed to Sunday Night football. Was going to
be a one o'clock kickoff here at MPT Banks team
now on Sunday Night football.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I think that's to the Ravens advantage.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Honestly, we all know what the night game atmosphere is, like,
Drake may second your quarterback. Now you're on primetime. Baltimore's rocking,
better be rocking, Like that's gonna be a big time
awesome game. Yeah, I think that helps the Ravens a
little bit. And then out in Green Bay, I mean, goodness, Grace,
the Green Bay Packers are really good and winning in
(39:50):
Lambeau in late December tough, and so Ravens have the
work cutout for him. There are their talent, as we've
been saying all season long, they're talented enough to do it,
but you gotta do it, you gotta put together and
like that's there's been a disconnect there.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
They haven't put it all together.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, so we'll see, of course, how all of this
plays out. As always, you can email us at the
lounge at Ravens dot NFL dot net. We appreciate you
emailing and listening to the show. Thank you so much,
and we'll be back with you again later this week.
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