April 14, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of "Weekend Warriors," Anish and Tom dive into the defensive back prospects of the 2025 NFL Draft class. They’re joined by special guest Eugene Robinson, former Panther defensive back, who shares his insights on what it takes to succeed as a DB in the NFL. Tune in as they discuss the top talents in this year’s draft, analyze their potential impact on the Panthers, and hear Eugene's expert opinions on the future stars of the league.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Close to the.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Episode Cap Flake Feeling Touchdown.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Carolina Weekend Warriors Draft Special.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The Weekend Warriors Draft Special is brought to you by
bud Light. No easier way to enjoy your Sunday. Bud
Light is the official beer of the NFL and a
proud partner of the Carolina Panthers. Episode five, we focus
on the defensive backfield and the shrothy ESPN's Tom Lougan
(00:38):
bill with you. We'll hear from former Panther defensive back
and longtime NFL defensive back Eugene Robinson a little later on.
That is a position and a position group for Carolina
which will likely be rebuilt. Here when you look at
what they have. J C. Horn signed a huge extension
(00:58):
on the first day of free age, and see you
got Shaw Smith Wade out of Wazoo, fifth round pick
last year, had his moments as a rookie. Demani Richardson
undrafted rookie out of Texas A and m is the
guy who also showed some promise. But the safety room
in particular Xavier Woods, Jordan Fuller, those guys are gone.
(01:20):
You're gonna have to rebuild that room, and you're gonna
have to do it, you know, both through free agency
and the draft, and there's a lot of intriguing draft
prospects to get to. But first lugs the safety position.
And when you think of guys like Jack Tatum and
Ronnie Lott, you grew up on the West Coast, can't
really play safety that way anymore, No, you cannot.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I mean, it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Number one, I think it's become more and more difficult,
particularly in the defensive secondary, with as little contact as
you have now, or you're allowed to have, you're permitted
to have. And then all of a sudden, you play
in the game and it's one hundred and fifteen miles
an hour and you're expected to tackle really well, and
the strike zone now is so small in terms of
what you can do. It's how precise you have to
be to be a good tackle, and at the safety position, like,
(02:10):
I don't know how guys do it, I really don't.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, what's happened is the position has been devalued, yes,
across the NFL. So before we get into prospects, what
do you look for in a safety these days? Because
it's different from ten to fifteen years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're looking at it from
a physical perspective, you'd love to have that rugged size,
that mentality, that hitter, that striker's mentality. But I think
now it's alignment instincts, keeping the ball in front of you,
seeing what's happening, your ability to break off the hash
and plant and come forward on the ball. All of
(02:48):
those things are you know, important, But you can't play
with the same physical nature that we become accustomed to
seeing from safety, and that's a shame.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, the Steve Atwaters of the World. Oh, the John Lynches,
Oh my goodness, dinosaurs. Now what would happen.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
What would happen to John Lynch's bank account if he
played right now?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
What bank account?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, I mean, it would all be gone and fines
I mean.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
And the thing is, when you take that away from
somebody and it's one of their greatest attributes, how are
they supposed to perform at the top level.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
That's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It seems. Now with a safety you're sort of looking
for a Swiss army knife. So a guy can play
the pass, who can play in the box, can maybe
even double as a slot corner if need be. One
of the names that has been dandied about as a
potential first round pick Malachi Starks out of Georgia. And
(03:48):
one thing that we saw out of Starks was versatility
in college, where he was a guy that they were
able to move all over the field, and we saw
him a lot of the slot this past year.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, because he's got some natural cover skills and I
think that you know, a cover safety. You hear that
phrase of cover safety, Well, I mean, think about who
you're matching up against.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You might have to match up against.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
A slot may not just be a tight end or
running back out of the backfield, it might be a
legitimate receiving.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Threat, and you're gonna have to hold up.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
The thing that's that's interesting. You mentioned Malachi Starks and
his versatility and the ability to line in a variety
of areas. But the darling, at least from a measurable
standpoint coming out of the combine was clearly Nick and Manawari.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, South Carolina.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Yeah, out of South Carolina. Now, the thing that makes
him intriguing to me is he started out as a
corner and he's super tall and super long. Then he
moves into safety. Well to your point, his size is
such an attribute that he can now come forward, play
near the box, play over the middle as a middle corner,
all of those sorts of things. And then he tested
(04:53):
like off the charts, especially when you consider his height,
weight combination. All of the testing times for him him
were just ridiculous. Now six yeah, two thirty, and his
vertical leap his forty history Coneldro was like, what is
going on here? It was a little bit reminiscent of
a defensive version of what we saw DK Metcalf do
(05:16):
at the combine. What's interesting, though, and I bring this
up because you can't get too caught up in a
lot of those things, is the year that DK Metcalf
came out, there were ten offensive linemen that did a
faster short shuttle than he did. And what have we
now seen in the NFL from DK Metcalf. He is
(05:37):
a straight line player, right, and so that manifested itself
when it comes to lateral agility and cutting and making
people miss. I think de manuwaris in a much better
position from a defensive perspective because your eyes before you're
coming forward and all of those sorts of things so interesting,
very eclectic group sizes, shapes, versatility as that have played
(06:00):
corner moved into safety originally.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know that's that's a positive.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Somebody who did that. Jaday Baron at Texas and Jaday
Baron Thorpe Award winner, he played that star position for
Steve Sarkisian hybrid safety, linebacker, could play outside, could play nickel.
They moved him all around and he was incredibly versatile.
(06:26):
You had to account for him as an offense. You
talk to the teams that are playing. We got to
know where Jaday Baron is lined up in the NFL?
Can that work or does he have a premier position?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I think it can work.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
I think the fact that he's comfortable playing in multiple
roles and has had a distinctly high level of production
in both of those roles tells you that you'd be
you'd feel very comfortable with wherever he lines up. Does
he have maybe the ideal height that you'd like for
him to have on the outside, Probably not. But I
(07:06):
think the thing that stands out about him and when
you talk to the coaching staff at Texas is he
is the ultimate student of the game. Knows the game
inside and out. Not only knows his job, he knows
everybody else's job, gets people aligned. A true quarterback of
the defense. I think that helps from a safety perspective.
Obviously he was running that back in, but then he
proves that he can move out to the corner position
(07:28):
and function and play at a high level. There's not
a lot of guys that do that. You might have
corners on the outside move inside, not the other way around.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And again that offers a defense on that positional flexibility,
which is a high demand these days. Another guy six
interceptions a year ago for the national runner up. That
was Xavier Watt seven interceptions the previous year. The Panthers
have kind of wanted for a few years, you know,
that takeaway artist, that ballhawk on the back end of
(07:59):
their defense. Wats is a guy who when you're looking
second round, maybe early third, there's a good chance he's
there were fifty seven.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Yeah, there is a good chance. And I think the
thing was, you know, he was a former linebacker candidate
before settling in at safety. And I think the thing
about him though, is that he's at his best when
he's allowed to sit back key the quarterback, watch the eyes,
see things unfold.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And then go make a play.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
I don't know if he's the type of player where
you say, okay, you have to you know, align in
this and then that's your that's your launch point. You know,
that's your landmark. That's I think he's better when you
turn him loose. A rover, a drover, a roaming type
of guy. Yeah, any any anything that allows for him
(08:53):
to key where the quarterback seems to be going with
the ball because he's got such twitchy, fast twitch movements
that he get once he makes that decision, he gets
there in a hurry.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Let's hit some cornerbacks.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
A guy who potentially could be there at number eight,
Will Johnson out of Michigan. And again, when you're building
a team, we see this a lot. With the best teams,
they amplify strengths. And if you're the Panthers, yes we
know what the need is on the front seven. But
pairing Will Johnson and J. C. Horn, boy, those those
(09:29):
are two really good one on one corners and big.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I mean Will Johnson looks like how you'd want a
safety to look and he's playing on the perimeter. So
what does that mean? Well, height and length are the
two things that every coach is coveting at corner because
it cuts down real estate, makes the holes to throw
the ball into that much smaller, and it come it
(09:54):
can completely remove a red zone threat from an opposing
offense because you don't have that disadvantage that favors the offense.
When you've got a guy like Will Johnson, I think
he can play on the field side.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
His size would lend you.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
To think that maybe he's going to be more of
a boundary guy at the next level, But you're right,
I mean, if he's an absolute difference maker, I believe.
And again, guys with that size playing corner are not
standing on every street corner.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And again, that is one of those positions where it
just seems if you want that alpha, that true number one.
Generally speaking, hard to find those guys at corner later
in the.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Draft, absolutely, because if they were that guy, they wouldn't
be later in the draft, you know, and and listen,
guys will emerge at different stages and in different rounds.
But when you're checking boxes as a tackler, as a
cover player, the not just the ideal size, you're exceeding
the measurable standard that coaches one on the outside and
(10:56):
you can run. And by the way, he's just twenty
one years old. He got a long future ahead of it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
One other intriguing name. If you're thinking, okay, where can
you maybe find a guy after round one who could
be a number one type corner? E cu In Greenville
savone Revel Okay had the ACL injury, missed most of
the season. He was a projected bonafide first round pick
(11:23):
before the injury, I mean, spoken very highly of. That
might be an opportunity. Again, the hedge here is injury risk,
and you know the Panthers went that route with Jonathan
Brooks in the second round last year. Maybe they're hesitant
to do it again. Yeah, but if you're trying to
buy upside at a position where you normally have to
(11:46):
go get a guy early.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
That could be an option. It could be an option.
He just had it.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
You have to be convinced that you're back at full
health and do your due diligence on that on the
medical side of it. But but you're right, I mean,
you're sitting there talking about sometimes those things happen and
now all of a sudden you get a huge discount
on a first round talent. Right now, is there risk
(12:10):
of course, yeah, injury, Yeah, the injury. But I will
say this too though, there's something to be said for
a first time injury versus a laundry list. Like if
a guy has been hurt a lot, he's going to
be hurt a lot. That's just you know, you sit
there and you look at two a tonguea valoa. Well,
(12:31):
he was just like that in college. And to me,
if if that's what you're going to invest in, then
you got to understand what you're going to get in return.
If it's a one off or the guy's had an
injury and then he's been able to go to season
street season, doesn't have anything wrong. I don't think you
worry about that stuff. I think the questions you ask
on a guy like Revel is what was his injury
(12:52):
history after that.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
ACL or before the the AC.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, guy that you saw covering the a CEC A
whole strong Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah. First of all, they had a bunch of
back end players that were really good.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
They kind of always have they always have, and a
lot of that too. Keep in mind that was a
team up front that had Anton Powell Island and an espebles.
So they were causing problems, which takes the pressure off
the back end.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right, And so again, you know, was it that those
guys were really good on the back end or were
they benefited by the offense having less time? Right?
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I mean, and probably a combination of both, Right, I mean,
if we're going to be fair, because you don't want
to take away from Dorian Strong's ability, but he is talented.
He's very talented. I think when this position, I think
there's four premium positions quarterback, offensive tackle, defensive line, and corner.
Those are the four. They're the four that everybody's looking
(13:49):
for at this particular position. They want them all over
six foot if you can get it. They want them
to test off the charts. Well, how many of those
guys are there? Like if you look at the safety
position now and in you reference and you're one hundred
percent correct that you can't play the safety position the
way it used to be played. But like, how many
Sean Taylors are there? You mentioned Steve Atwater.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
How many short tailors can there be?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Unless you move them to linebacker, right, because now you're
putting them in a more of a collision based position,
and you're gonna be able to get away with more
you're closer to the line of scrimmage. But when you're
coming from distance to strike, it's like you have a
microscope on you. Right, It's just you can't play the
position that way.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I had somebody tell me last year. They said, you
know why all these slot receivers are eating as much
as they have. It's a lot safer to go over
the middle now, right, can't touch them and they know
they can't be touched. Well, think about it, Ronnie Lott
playing center field, Ronnie a lot Lester Hayes. I mean,
you had these dudes that were just I mean their
their mode of operation was to put you out of
(14:53):
the game. They deterred you from taking that path.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Absolutely, and those days are over.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Those days are long gone. A couple other names to
get into. We saw Denzel Burke quite a bit at
Ohio State, and again product of him being a bona
fide draft prospect versus what you have up front. Yeah,
(15:20):
taking some pressure off.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
The one thing I'll say about him is he has
been He was a day one starter for them. That's
Ohio State. So like, I don't care who you are
as a true freshman you want to check. Yeah, you
walk on that campus. That means you're having to beat
out three or four guys to play, and you're a
true freshman. I also think that his sample size is
very encouraging. He's played a lot of football, chose to
come back to school all right after the loss to
(15:44):
Missouri and the Cotton Bowl, and then ended up winning
a national championship. I think there's value in that. So
the more of a sample size, the more there is
to evaluate and make a determination on.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
When it comes to.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Him, how much does scheme matter when you're drafting at
safety cornerback predominantly man, predominantly zoned. Does that come into
play or Hey, we just want the best guy and
we'll fit him into our scheme because he can play.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You know, I think it's more about mann to zone
than it is scheme because you can see when I
say man is zone, Okay, if you're gonna play man coverage, right,
that's fairly simple. You know who you're responsible for. Now
it comes down to are you going to play the
technique that you were coached? Are you going to be
aligned the way you're supposed to be lined? When it
gets to starting to be checks and zones and half
(16:33):
field zone, half field man, what have you. Now, there's
a thought process going on, and you can't get caught
up in letting your eyes go here when you're supposed
to be king there. I think I think there's a
whole different level of processing when it comes to that.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I do believe though, that the best safeties.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Regardless of the talent that they have or that they possess,
are they a hitter or are they a tackler?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
All that great?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Do they communicate to everybody else to make everybody right right?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
And that means.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Do we avoid a bust or a lapse in decisions
or being misaligned? Do we avoid that because we have
that one guy back there that makes sure it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And that was Xavier Woods for the Panthers the last
few years. Again, folks wanted more plays, more interceptions from Woods.
You didn't get that, But when he was out of
the lineup, it was clear they missed that communicator, right.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
And when that guy he kind of you just actually
said it best when he's not there, it becomes glaring.
When he's in there and you know he's doing it,
you don't quite have the same appreciation for it.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
The last thing here, and then we'll bring in Eugene Robinson,
who can shed a lot of light on the position
played at a high level for a long time. When
you're building a defense out, ye have the island corner
and you can take away essentially half the field Deion Sanders.
That allows the rest of the defense to do other
(18:07):
things we've seen it. Teams can be more aggressive. You
don't have to worry about leaving a guy on an
island because you can now bring more pressure. There's the
other part of it too. You build it from the
front seven and now if you're blowing up plays at
the line of scrimmage, maybe you can get away with,
you know, hiding a couple of people in the secondary
because the play takes a lot less time to develop.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, instead of it being three point eight to four
seconds and all of a sudden, it's two point seven
to three. And that's a long time in coverage, right,
So you start you start manipulating your back end through
the pressure and your and your ability in the front.
And really, if you're just looking at it, if you're
standing from the safety position and you're looking right down
(18:49):
at the ball.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You want to be strong.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Down the middle of the field, right, So your front,
your linebacker corep, your safety corps. That's the middle of
the field. And then the guys on the outside. If
you're any good up front, that's going to protect them.
Flip the vantage point for me, go back to your
playing days a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Uh huh?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
What's that second differential look like for you the secondary?
What do you mean that second differential?
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Oh? Goodness, I mean well, and a lot of it too.
First of all, let me say this, Sacks are not
an offensive line stat. They are a quarterback stat. If
you hold onto the ball, you're gonna get sacked. All right,
I'm sorry, you just are. I think that's one of,
in my opinion, shad Or Sanders's biggest flaws. All right,
(19:38):
he's got some bad habits in that regard. But when
you get why is too a tongue of II LOOA
never sacked? The ball is out of his hand. Now,
how does that happen? Well, it happens because he's prepared.
The coach is prepared. They know what's coming, and they
they they have an answer. Right, And so when you're
sitting back there and you're you're feeling like it's going
(20:01):
to be a jail break all the time.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
That's hard, right, And the.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Pictures changing and you're and you think you're seeing this
and you're actually seeing a ghost. And what does that do?
You start patting the ball. You start patting the ball,
bad things are going to happen. I think to me,
the passing game is so much about rhythm and timing
and getting the ball out of your hand that that
solves as many, if not all, of the problems when
(20:28):
it comes to handling path rush. And you have to
be able to have that clock go off in your
head because if you don't, it's going to be a
long day.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah. And you know, we've heard the Panthers coaches talk
about timing, timing right. Dan Morgan has preached patients building
this thing from the trenches out right, you get the
offensive line in place like they did a year ago,
all of a sudden, that helps Bryce. He's got more
time to throw right. That gives the receivers more time
(20:58):
to get open. It makes the defense cover for a
longer period of time. That's that little element that you know, hey,
this isn't happening, This isn't happening. It's about time. And
then on the flip side, the Panthers defensively had their struggles,
so the opponent had more time for the running back
to get to the hole. They had more time for
the quarterback to set, go through his reads and throw.
(21:20):
And they've talked about, hey, we want to shorten the
clock on defense, right and lengthen it on offense. It
seems the easiest way to do that is again building
from inside out.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Yes, because that's it begins and ends there. You can
plug all the other pieces around that. But if you
don't have that, you'll get exactly what we saw from
the Panthers defense a year ago.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And I'm gonna tell you right now.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You can talk coaching all you want, but the coach
doesn't have any eligibility and the coach is another contract
to go on the field. So you got to have players.
You got to have better players. And once you have that,
then all of a sudden things start coming together and
you can do a little bit more. You have a
little more confidence in your team. You get a couple
of three and outs. Now all of a sudden, the
(22:04):
wins start shifting. And sometimes it just takes a couple
of those to change the nature of your defense.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
The silver lining here is if they can do defensively
this offseason what they were able to accomplish offensively last year,
all of a sudden, that should be seen on the
field tangibly in more wins. You take a defense that
was historically bad for a lot of reasons, injuries amongst them.
(22:32):
You get that to average and you see not anything exponential,
but just continued growth offensively from Bryce, from the offensive line,
from the skill guys in the NFC South. You're going
to be in the mix.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
You are going to be in the mix. And I
want to go back to the defense for a second.
Is you know everybody talks about Okay, well the sack
numbers were low. Okay, well how low was affecting the quarterback?
Well it wasn't even that they couldn't stop the run.
Well no, yeah, something run. But when when let's just say,
and that's the problem is they're there. They were never
able to get the opposing offense behind the chains. Right,
(23:09):
So if you can't win on first down and all
of a sudden, it's second and four, right, Well, now
you don't have to throw the football on offense.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
If you don't want to.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
But if you win on that first down, right, and
you either stop the run for a game of zero
or a gain of one or even two, now you
change the thought process of the offense and what they're
going to do on second down. You never Panthers never
gave people the opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
No, I mean it was at a point where they
were so beat up in the front seven teams would
run the ball, run the ball. There was a stretch
where they were giving up two hundred yards per game
on the ground, seemingly every week getting cashed all of
a sudden. You'd love to use those blitz packages. Yeah,
I love to dial up in third and thirteen. But
(23:51):
you can't do it on second and three. I mean
you can, but you're risking.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
It, right, I know that's tough, man, And but again,
it takes a little bit of a chain. You get
a little chain and all of that, and it starts
having a trickle down effect.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
The Weekend Warriors Draft Special is brought to you by
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It's going to be paired with co branded merch fit
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(24:54):
or older to participate and be eligible. He played six
to seasons in the NFL, eleven with the Seahawks. He
also played for the Packers and Falcons before finishing up
with the Carolina Panthers. Former Super Bowl champion Eugene Robinson
joining us. Eugene, we brought you in because I know
how much you love talking about DB's you know that's right.
(25:18):
This defensive backfield for the Carolina Panthers. We're gonna see
a rebuilt safety room. But I'm gonna start with one
piece who I know throughout the course of the season.
When we did Panther Talk on Mondays, you raved about
Demani Richardson, eh undrafted free agent out of Texas A.
And is Demani Richardson someone that you see as a
(25:40):
potential starter for twenty twenty five?
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Absolutely, And I'll tell you why, because not only he
has a great feat, but one thing of being at
free safety you have to be around the ball, whether
that's in the passing game or whether that's in the
running game.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You got to be that last guy to stop.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And then you got to be an open field tackler,
a great open field tackler. And he chucked the boxes
for me. He was always around the bomb. Like, dude,
this guy keeps showing up. He keeps showing up, he
keeps showing up, And I'm like, Okay. Then when the
open field tackle, and I've been in that space where
you got the guy can go two different ways, he
cuts off the angle and he makes a solid tack.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I'm going, dude, I can live with that.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
And then the only thing that I thought he lacked
is that he's not like Wood was. Well, he's a
communicator and talking. But he'll learn that. I had to
learn that. I had to learn to be loud and
to talk, and you had to learn that I had
to learn to be loud because typically when you're a rookie,
you don't want to say anything and you're like everything
is like you defer to the the ken easily, you
(26:39):
defer to the other people.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
You don't say anything.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
But when you find your voice, imagining your ability, oh,
then you then you become really like almost braggadocious.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You're like you let every you let everybody know.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
And so I think once he gets a handle of
Everell's defense of what he wants, where he wants people
at when you need to make the text, I think
he's going to be outstanding. I know he can catch
the ball, I know, but he's a better tackler and
the open field. And that's the commodity that you gotta
have at the position. If you don't have it at
(27:12):
the position, you're free. Safety is a liability.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I want you to further elaborate on that because Anisia
and I were talking about how whether it's a linebacker
or in the back end safety corner, what have you
and you're expected to be a great tackler. It's a
collision sport and you you know whether it's run fits,
whether it's angles.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
This and that.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
But the the game has become so protected that you
can't even tackle practicing anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know. That's a that's an interesting point. So how
are you supposed to be any good at it?
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Because you you could practice the thud tackling. Yeah, you
got to get your head out of the surface area
now and you got to get it behind with the
road tackles and the hawk tackles that they do now.
But you still can practice where you thought up ad
and you you get into you get into space. It's
almost like if you're about to get in a fight
with somebody and you get in there space. You got
(28:01):
to be able to get into a guy's space where
he knows that he only has one way to go
and then you shoot your shadow at him. So from
that's to that point, you can practice that. But the
hardest thing to do is these running backs are too good. Yeah,
I mean like they'll make they'll make you miss stiff
arm you're down in the ground, or say kwan baklea
jump over you backwards or something like that.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
So you gotta be really good. And one thing I
like about h.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
Richardson is that he doesn't dive down on the ground
to make that tackle. Blow your knees. Guy's gonna jump
over top of you. He'll stay up top waist high
to make that really that dire fram shot. That's a
really good tackle.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
We were talking about this to you, Gene, where we'll
stick with safeties. You can't play that position like you
played it. You can't play that position like it was
played in your era. So with all the limitations on
how he can hit where he can hit, slot receivers
are eating a lot more this you say, you know
in this day and age for a good reason. Just
(29:00):
the are how do you play that position out? What
do you look for in a prospect?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
So I want him to be able to get his
head out of the surface making when you have to
make that tackle in the open field on the guy
on a slant, that you don't hit him in the
jaw on the head, so that you really kind of
concentrate really on his torso where he has to bend,
and that's where at the diaphragm. When you start to bend,
you're gonna make your tackle at that level. You know,
even if you show the tackle, you're gonna make it
(29:25):
at that level. But you're gonna make sure that you
get your shoulder down in that area because that gets
your head really out of the surface area of hitting
the guy in the face. And so from that standpoint,
you can practice that, and they've been practicing that a lot.
I'm talking about the hit where you make a statement
where you're not an Do Dow. Yeah, yeah, one of
those not to tackle where you tackle him and you
start delivering play Another day, I'm talking about that tackle
(29:47):
where you can go and make a nice collision and
get your head out of the surface area. And you
do that by it's a diaphragm shot right where he bins.
That's where you catch him, and then you slide your
body up because once my body hits you right here
in your diaphragm, not slide up to you. The contact
has been made there already, and so now I'm not
penalized for hitting you as my shoulder comes up underneath
(30:07):
your chin.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Well, at least you.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
Shouldn't be right. At least you shouldn't be so because
you already made the contact.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
You mentioned something in terms of communication, you know, you
always hear that phrase other quarterback of the defense and
all those sorts of things. In draft preparation. Draft preparation,
you can see the height, the weight, the speed. You
can watch the tape and this and that. How do
you truly unveil who is the guy that is the
pied piper gets everybody lined up? How who do you
(30:36):
go to to say, hey, if I need this guy
to do this, this, this, this and this, and it's
all aptitude and communication, all right, how do you investigate that?
Speaker 5 (30:45):
So one, every every coach, every college coach is going
to know who that guy in the room is.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
He's gonna know that, all right.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Now, whether that guy is the guy gets interceptions or
mixed tackles, or maybe he's just not the this stuper duperstar,
everybody knows who's that person, and everybody always relies on
that person. Because here is like a Dion Sanders had
different people to go and help him because he got
to be d On, but he wasn't. He wasn't making
any adjustments. He's listening to people. Man, get over there,
(31:16):
Dion Oh, lock him down, Dion Oh. Dryl Reeve is
the same way, lock him down. You got him, d reeve,
you got him. But all that stuff that goes on communication,
that's typically your free safety or your middle linebacker, and
hopefully it is your free safety because they're the one
person that's not accounted for in the blocking scheme at all.
They're back about fifteen yards and if they can go ahead,
(31:38):
if you When I see Richardson, I've seen this, and
this is Xavier Woods says credit. When I see him
doing this and looking back forward, when I see that,
I'm like, oh, I already know he's yelling stuff and
he's doing communication. I know that he's getting he's directed,
he's directing traffic, and that's what I want him to
be able to do. If I don't see the safety
doing like you never see Troy pol Model was doing
(32:00):
stuff like this. He's getting told Larroy Butler, love Larroy Butler.
But Laurie Butler's listening to me, l Roy, listen over there,
get over there right now, we're gonna shift the defense.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
He's listening to that.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
So from that standpoint, you always know and every coach
knows who that guy is in the locker room, and
so that's where it comes to whoever's drafting this snet.
If I'm Dan Morgan, I want to talk to I
want to who's this position coach?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I want to know how vocal is this guy?
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, and then I want to see it on the film,
because typically you see it on the film by guy directed.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah. Shifting to corners. You know, Lukes and I were
talking about, Hey, if the Panthers are picking at eight,
assuming they don't trade down a guy like Will Johnson,
who could be another shutdown corner opposite JC Horn, You're
you're doubling down on a strength. Would that make sense?
Or is the need in the front seven too great?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
The knee in the front seven is too much? Dude?
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Look, I know I'm gonna get Dereck brown Back. DJ
one was a beast. He came off injury and I'm like, oh,
hold on, wait a minute, man, this dude right here.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Just a pass rush.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I know, we got a pass rush.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Now, imagine getting Derek brown Back in the mixed Shi
Teto Robinson, guys who are serviceable at that position. You
just got another guy who can go ahead and rush,
a guy who's going to take up two people. And
now you got DJ Wantam freed up, so I think
that the need is too great. I know this Wallace,
I know uh Jose Jewel, I get it. But I'm like,
where is that linebacker? That's where's my beast? And my
(33:30):
Luke Keickley? My dam moore? Where's that do that man?
Where's that do that?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Is?
Speaker 5 (33:35):
He is a dude? Is he the dude for the
uh Georgia the walker cadd? Is he?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Is he the other dude? I can't pronounce a nice schwirschwinger. Guy?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I'm here?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Is you c l a guy?
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Where's that guy? And here's the thing about Luke Keickley.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be yelling at people.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It's okay. You had a couple of couples of.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
I have some miss here. But here's the thing about
Luke Keickley. What was Luke Kickley known for when he
came out of Beast see man? He was known for
being tackling machine dude. He let the he let the
whole country and tackles dude. And when I saw him
in person at the at block water or the encourage
your wad or whatever, that he won all that other
stuff water he won. I'm sitting there going like this,
(34:15):
that's Luke Kekickley man. That dude's a beast man. And
then when we picked him, I was like, hold up,
we just got one of the greatest linebackers that nobody
knows about. Nobody knows they're going, who's this Luke Kickley guy?
When we see that Luke Keickley is the first ballot
Hall of Famer. Yeah, only because they only had four
people going in. That's the only reason why, Luke. I'm
just shouting to Luke Keickley, but that's the only reason.
(34:36):
But Luke Kickley is that guy. Where's that guy on
our team? When you look on that defensive front, that
defensive seven, you don't see it. And that's where I
think we're lacking because whoever is that? If I'm Dan Morgan,
I'm looking, where's my linebacker at? He already played the position,
he knows, he knows, and here it is. I don't
(34:57):
need another cornerback. Jackson is service both. He's really good,
all right. I don't need another cornerback because I need
a pass rush, getting the cast faces, bust some dues
up with my front seven. My front seven makes that
defensive backfield makes it look great because you can't. You
can't get the ball off. And that's what I need
to go ahead and build that front seven.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
We touched on that earlier, we did and I listen,
I pressure burst the pipe, right, you know that's right, right?
And so we can sit here and talk about all
this skill on the back end. Well, if they're out
there on an island forever, they're gonna lose.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
They're gonna lose. They're gonna lose.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
From from your perspective of playing in the defensive secondary,
I'm gonna take Ja de Baron for example from Texas.
He was a safety his first four years, moves out
the corner and has an All American season, but he's
not very tall.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
What do you do with a guy like that? So
I think kind of like Captain Munlan, not a tall guy.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Right, Guys so much mocksy is so much good feet,
good hands. And then whenever you got a guy who's
not tall, this is what you have to realize. Like
he's been told that his entire life that got you ship.
You ain't that guy. You ain't that guy. You ain't
that guy. And he's been proving everybody wrong that he's
that guy. And so even when he gets to the
NFL and he goes at the nickel. He doesn't care
(36:21):
what position he plays because he got a chip on
the shoulder saying, you're looking for this guy who's six',
three you, Know Isaiah. Simmons When Isaiah simmons came, out
everybody was all Over isaiah's absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Everybody oh everybody around here Wanted Isaiah brown.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Exactly and then when we look at the struggles Of Isaiah,
simmons now you sit, there, go, well hold, on wait a,
MINUTE i think we locked up and we took the right, person, right,
yeah here that it's really a crapshoot BECAUSE i can't
measure what's inside your.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
HEART i don't know what type of dog you got in.
YOU i don't know any of that.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Stuff you, know you can have good hand skills and,
snap but you want to determines a lot here in
The National Football. League that's Why Jase, horn, right Jayse
horn is a.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Cat.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
RIGHT i know he's been, hurt but guess, WHAT i
know that he wants, it AND i know that he
doesn't care who he lines up against because he don't
think that you could beat.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Him that's what he.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Thinks he firmly believes that you can't beat, me all,
right prove it to. Me and that's how he. Feels
SO i can't measure. That you can't measure what that looks.
Like Thomas, Davis, Louke Keikley, Beason Dan. Morgan all that
want to is at a high, level a, high super duper.
Level and when you're playing at that, LEVEL i don't
care if you're six.' two i don't care if you're.
(37:36):
FIVE eight i don't care If You're. BARRY sanders i
don't care if, the dude what's the other?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Running?
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Back dude and it was second runner up In the heisman.
This year the Dude Man.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Ashton, jensens yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
That, dude. Right DUDE all i know is that cat.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Right there he can't wait to get out there because
he's gonna prove. Everybody wrong he's Gonna Say kwan Barkley
Leaves new york and everybody thinks he's. Washed up everybody
thinks that his better days were behind him and ahead. Of,
him dude and then he totally changed the face of
what running backs look, like now and everybody's looking For That.
(38:15):
Sakuon barkley EVERYBODY'S looking i can't measure what's in your heart.
At ALL and i don't care what side. YOU are
i don't care if you can play and you can
ball of course.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
If, you like you know five two of. ITS alignment
i think you.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
CAN'T measure i think you can. Measure CHOLESTEROL but.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I don't Know what.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
I'm saying But what i'm you Know what. I'm saying
but we. Can't measure we can't.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Measure.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
That now i'm not gonna put him on the island
against You Know kelvin johnson who's. Six', six YOU know
if i do put him, On the island i'm gonna
rotate the safety over the.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Top of Him that's what.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
I'm gonna do but that's what you do for somebody,
like like that, or you say hey, man and man,
you got him mes?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You got, him cat coverage you know? That that cat you?
Got that cat you. Got that CAT guess how i
do it?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
In, this division though when you look, at You, know the,
bucks for example They re Signed God when mike evans is,
still Going strong The Falcons With drake london Saints still
Have christ so.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
LAVA don't forget i Don't Know what besha robinson he's
just he's just, A beast anyway.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
He's just that. He's, a nightmare yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
How much during the draft and, addressing your needs are
you kind of looking at, your immediate competition the teams
that you play, twice every, year and saying we we
got to get somebody to match. UP with, THEM i
mean i go back To when The Falcons, said mike
vick That's why the panthers Went And got.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
Thomas davis exactly And Don't forget thomas davis was a
safety when he, first got here and then he got
moved to linebacker and. He WAS one And I told
thomas davis, AT the time, i WAS like do i
haven't seen people?
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Hit Like That.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
SAYS rodny, lot i. Said that's you you. JUST had,
due i said they don't, have the movie and they
moved him. To the linebacker People have assist so, from
that standpoint. You're AFTER right but i think. You're you're
right when WE look At i think tampa is like
maybe the standard that. You look, at you know of,
course the lobby, he's a Beast But man baker mayfield
(40:10):
made them special and made them, even, more relevant right
and then because he has The receivers of Evans, and
crew man you you gotta you gotta.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Count, FOR them now i thought that.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
WHAT we lacked i thought we lacked, the PASS rush
and i thought the pass rush because we like. The
pass rush Now You're Letting bakon maker mayfield eat, that,
First Game man bacon.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
MAYFIELD was eating i, mean he was he.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Was getting down and so, From that standpoint i'm, sitting,
and going dude you gotta be able to put pressure
on the quarterback and get in this dude's face to
make him throw when he doesn't want to, throw the
ball or make him relegated to, something that's. Very very
short AND that's why i think in this draft it
has to be. The front seven. It gotta be if
(40:54):
your defensive front, SEVEN ain't hitting i don't care who you.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Are back there jay c hornk.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Cover all, day he can't he won't, be able to
and he's gonna get mad at you because, he, was,
like hey man.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Defiss a bat, help. Me out amen hey that was four, or.
Five seconds man it.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
Can't be that and so the bar needs to be
coming out in two point eight seconds right around that
because you got to pass for us, in guy's face
and so That's what We that's what. I'm hoping for
and when we look, At our, division, I'm like DUDE
tampa was i thought the, standard it Was. And also
atlanta they, both BOUGHT out but i thought that towards
the end, OF the season i thought we were on
par with.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Both those teams.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
So to accomplish what, you're talking about you have, the
eighth pick don't pick again. Until fifty seven do you
trade down and try and get multiple picks to get
multiple bodies in.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
That, defensive front.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Well that's a really. GOOD calculated risk i. DON'T think
that i don't think they, HAVE the capital i mean
not the financial capital. TO do it i don't think
that when they look, across their team is that something
they want to go. AHEAD and do i think when
You Look at derek brown getting back, in the. Mix
(42:05):
that's huge that changes the entire complexion. Of that DEFENSE
and now i can be at number eight and. SEE
who falls i think one of the linebackers were talking,
ABOUT any linebacker i think they're going. To fall there
i'm hoping that they. Get a linebacker i'm not looking for.
A secondary person i don't think we need. A secondary
Person you MENTIONED.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Schwessinger from ucla you know who? Else liked Him?
Speaker 5 (42:29):
Who's that luke see ye see See that's. What I'M
talking and i believe he has one hundred and. THIRTY
six tackles i think he's like one hundred and, thirty six, tackles,
two interceptions hit eleven point five tackles for loss.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Somewhere around it, that tells me and only. Like twelve, games,
TWELVE games dude i, know that's. CRAZY that's insane i.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Think it's very telling That we brought eugene on to
talk defensive backs and he's kind of. Made, the case
hey the priority needs to be the seven. Guys, in
front man.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
You build a championship team from, the, inside out absolutely. Regardless.
Of sport absolutely problem is they're not standing on. EVERY
street corner.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I can GO you and i right now could throw
a rock outside and hit a wide receiver in that.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Because they're everywhere, because, they're everywhere, Right not, everywhere they're
everywhere but.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Not Those guys eugene robinson shedding some Light on. This
panther defense give me an exciting. Couple, Of months man i'm.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Looking.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
FOR that MAN i need i need a, dog, UP
front man i want one of the, dogs, to bark
DUDE that's.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
What i, need.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
I'M sorry dude i don't mean to. Be all out, i'm.
So loud, Dude i'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Ladies and gentlemen the weekend.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Close to The.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Episode caught Fite Feeling Touchdown
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Carolina Weekend warriors drab special
Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Close to the.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Episode Cap Flake Feeling Touchdown.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Carolina Weekend Warriors Draft Special.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The Weekend Warriors Draft Special is brought to you by
bud Light. No easier way to enjoy your Sunday. Bud
Light is the official beer of the NFL and a
proud partner of the Carolina Panthers. Episode five, we focus
on the defensive backfield and the shrothy ESPN's Tom Lougan
(00:38):
bill with you. We'll hear from former Panther defensive back
and longtime NFL defensive back Eugene Robinson a little later on.
That is a position and a position group for Carolina
which will likely be rebuilt. Here when you look at
what they have. J C. Horn signed a huge extension
(00:58):
on the first day of free age, and see you
got Shaw Smith Wade out of Wazoo, fifth round pick
last year, had his moments as a rookie. Demani Richardson
undrafted rookie out of Texas A and m is the
guy who also showed some promise. But the safety room
in particular Xavier Woods, Jordan Fuller, those guys are gone.
(01:20):
You're gonna have to rebuild that room, and you're gonna
have to do it, you know, both through free agency
and the draft, and there's a lot of intriguing draft
prospects to get to. But first lugs the safety position.
And when you think of guys like Jack Tatum and
Ronnie Lott, you grew up on the West Coast, can't
really play safety that way anymore, No, you cannot.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I mean, it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Number one, I think it's become more and more difficult,
particularly in the defensive secondary, with as little contact as
you have now, or you're allowed to have, you're permitted
to have. And then all of a sudden, you play
in the game and it's one hundred and fifteen miles
an hour and you're expected to tackle really well, and
the strike zone now is so small in terms of
what you can do. It's how precise you have to
be to be a good tackle, and at the safety position, like,
(02:10):
I don't know how guys do it, I really don't.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, what's happened is the position has been devalued, yes,
across the NFL. So before we get into prospects, what
do you look for in a safety these days? Because
it's different from ten to fifteen years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're looking at it from
a physical perspective, you'd love to have that rugged size,
that mentality, that hitter, that striker's mentality. But I think
now it's alignment instincts, keeping the ball in front of you,
seeing what's happening, your ability to break off the hash
and plant and come forward on the ball. All of
(02:48):
those things are you know, important, But you can't play
with the same physical nature that we become accustomed to
seeing from safety, and that's a shame.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, the Steve Atwaters of the World. Oh, the John Lynches,
Oh my goodness, dinosaurs. Now what would happen.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
What would happen to John Lynch's bank account if he
played right now?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
What bank account?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, I mean, it would all be gone and fines
I mean.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
And the thing is, when you take that away from
somebody and it's one of their greatest attributes, how are
they supposed to perform at the top level.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
That's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It seems. Now with a safety you're sort of looking
for a Swiss army knife. So a guy can play
the pass, who can play in the box, can maybe
even double as a slot corner if need be. One
of the names that has been dandied about as a
potential first round pick Malachi Starks out of Georgia. And
(03:48):
one thing that we saw out of Starks was versatility
in college, where he was a guy that they were
able to move all over the field, and we saw
him a lot of the slot this past year.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, because he's got some natural cover skills and I
think that you know, a cover safety. You hear that
phrase of cover safety, Well, I mean, think about who
you're matching up against.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You might have to match up against.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
A slot may not just be a tight end or
running back out of the backfield, it might be a
legitimate receiving.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Threat, and you're gonna have to hold up.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
The thing that's that's interesting. You mentioned Malachi Starks and
his versatility and the ability to line in a variety
of areas. But the darling, at least from a measurable
standpoint coming out of the combine was clearly Nick and Manawari.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, South Carolina.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Yeah, out of South Carolina. Now, the thing that makes
him intriguing to me is he started out as a
corner and he's super tall and super long. Then he
moves into safety. Well to your point, his size is
such an attribute that he can now come forward, play
near the box, play over the middle as a middle corner,
all of those sorts of things. And then he tested
(04:53):
like off the charts, especially when you consider his height,
weight combination. All of the testing times for him him
were just ridiculous. Now six yeah, two thirty, and his
vertical leap his forty history Coneldro was like, what is
going on here? It was a little bit reminiscent of
a defensive version of what we saw DK Metcalf do
(05:16):
at the combine. What's interesting, though, and I bring this
up because you can't get too caught up in a
lot of those things, is the year that DK Metcalf
came out, there were ten offensive linemen that did a
faster short shuttle than he did. And what have we
now seen in the NFL from DK Metcalf. He is
(05:37):
a straight line player, right, and so that manifested itself
when it comes to lateral agility and cutting and making
people miss. I think de manuwaris in a much better
position from a defensive perspective because your eyes before you're
coming forward and all of those sorts of things so interesting,
very eclectic group sizes, shapes, versatility as that have played
(06:00):
corner moved into safety originally.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know that's that's a positive.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Somebody who did that. Jaday Baron at Texas and Jaday
Baron Thorpe Award winner, he played that star position for
Steve Sarkisian hybrid safety, linebacker, could play outside, could play nickel.
They moved him all around and he was incredibly versatile.
(06:26):
You had to account for him as an offense. You
talk to the teams that are playing. We got to
know where Jaday Baron is lined up in the NFL?
Can that work or does he have a premier position?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I think it can work.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
I think the fact that he's comfortable playing in multiple
roles and has had a distinctly high level of production
in both of those roles tells you that you'd be
you'd feel very comfortable with wherever he lines up. Does
he have maybe the ideal height that you'd like for
him to have on the outside, Probably not. But I
(07:06):
think the thing that stands out about him and when
you talk to the coaching staff at Texas is he
is the ultimate student of the game. Knows the game
inside and out. Not only knows his job, he knows
everybody else's job, gets people aligned. A true quarterback of
the defense. I think that helps from a safety perspective.
Obviously he was running that back in, but then he
proves that he can move out to the corner position
(07:28):
and function and play at a high level. There's not
a lot of guys that do that. You might have
corners on the outside move inside, not the other way around.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And again that offers a defense on that positional flexibility,
which is a high demand these days. Another guy six
interceptions a year ago for the national runner up. That
was Xavier Watt seven interceptions the previous year. The Panthers
have kind of wanted for a few years, you know,
that takeaway artist, that ballhawk on the back end of
(07:59):
their defense. Wats is a guy who when you're looking
second round, maybe early third, there's a good chance he's
there were fifty seven.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Yeah, there is a good chance. And I think the
thing was, you know, he was a former linebacker candidate
before settling in at safety. And I think the thing
about him though, is that he's at his best when
he's allowed to sit back key the quarterback, watch the eyes,
see things unfold.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And then go make a play.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
I don't know if he's the type of player where
you say, okay, you have to you know, align in
this and then that's your that's your launch point. You know,
that's your landmark. That's I think he's better when you
turn him loose. A rover, a drover, a roaming type
of guy. Yeah, any any anything that allows for him
(08:53):
to key where the quarterback seems to be going with
the ball because he's got such twitchy, fast twitch movements
that he get once he makes that decision, he gets
there in a hurry.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Let's hit some cornerbacks.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
A guy who potentially could be there at number eight,
Will Johnson out of Michigan. And again, when you're building
a team, we see this a lot. With the best teams,
they amplify strengths. And if you're the Panthers, yes we
know what the need is on the front seven. But
pairing Will Johnson and J. C. Horn, boy, those those
(09:29):
are two really good one on one corners and big.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I mean Will Johnson looks like how you'd want a
safety to look and he's playing on the perimeter. So
what does that mean? Well, height and length are the
two things that every coach is coveting at corner because
it cuts down real estate, makes the holes to throw
the ball into that much smaller, and it come it
(09:54):
can completely remove a red zone threat from an opposing
offense because you don't have that disadvantage that favors the offense.
When you've got a guy like Will Johnson, I think
he can play on the field side.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
His size would lend you.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
To think that maybe he's going to be more of
a boundary guy at the next level, But you're right,
I mean, if he's an absolute difference maker, I believe.
And again, guys with that size playing corner are not
standing on every street corner.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And again, that is one of those positions where it
just seems if you want that alpha, that true number one.
Generally speaking, hard to find those guys at corner later
in the.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Draft, absolutely, because if they were that guy, they wouldn't
be later in the draft, you know, and and listen,
guys will emerge at different stages and in different rounds.
But when you're checking boxes as a tackler, as a
cover player, the not just the ideal size, you're exceeding
the measurable standard that coaches one on the outside and
(10:56):
you can run. And by the way, he's just twenty
one years old. He got a long future ahead of it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
One other intriguing name. If you're thinking, okay, where can
you maybe find a guy after round one who could
be a number one type corner? E cu In Greenville
savone Revel Okay had the ACL injury, missed most of
the season. He was a projected bonafide first round pick
(11:23):
before the injury, I mean, spoken very highly of. That
might be an opportunity. Again, the hedge here is injury risk,
and you know the Panthers went that route with Jonathan
Brooks in the second round last year. Maybe they're hesitant
to do it again. Yeah, but if you're trying to
buy upside at a position where you normally have to
(11:46):
go get a guy early.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
That could be an option. It could be an option.
He just had it.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
You have to be convinced that you're back at full
health and do your due diligence on that on the
medical side of it. But but you're right, I mean,
you're sitting there talking about sometimes those things happen and
now all of a sudden you get a huge discount
on a first round talent. Right now, is there risk
(12:10):
of course, yeah, injury, Yeah, the injury. But I will
say this too though, there's something to be said for
a first time injury versus a laundry list. Like if
a guy has been hurt a lot, he's going to
be hurt a lot. That's just you know, you sit
there and you look at two a tonguea valoa. Well,
(12:31):
he was just like that in college. And to me,
if if that's what you're going to invest in, then
you got to understand what you're going to get in return.
If it's a one off or the guy's had an
injury and then he's been able to go to season
street season, doesn't have anything wrong. I don't think you
worry about that stuff. I think the questions you ask
on a guy like Revel is what was his injury
(12:52):
history after that.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
ACL or before the the AC.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, guy that you saw covering the a CEC A
whole strong Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah. First of all, they had a bunch of
back end players that were really good.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
They kind of always have they always have, and a
lot of that too. Keep in mind that was a
team up front that had Anton Powell Island and an espebles.
So they were causing problems, which takes the pressure off
the back end.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right, And so again, you know, was it that those
guys were really good on the back end or were
they benefited by the offense having less time? Right?
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I mean, and probably a combination of both, Right, I mean,
if we're going to be fair, because you don't want
to take away from Dorian Strong's ability, but he is talented.
He's very talented. I think when this position, I think
there's four premium positions quarterback, offensive tackle, defensive line, and corner.
Those are the four. They're the four that everybody's looking
(13:49):
for at this particular position. They want them all over
six foot if you can get it. They want them
to test off the charts. Well, how many of those
guys are there? Like if you look at the safety
position now and in you reference and you're one hundred
percent correct that you can't play the safety position the
way it used to be played. But like, how many
Sean Taylors are there? You mentioned Steve Atwater.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
How many short tailors can there be?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Right?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Unless you move them to linebacker, right, because now you're
putting them in a more of a collision based position,
and you're gonna be able to get away with more
you're closer to the line of scrimmage. But when you're
coming from distance to strike, it's like you have a
microscope on you. Right, It's just you can't play the
position that way.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I had somebody tell me last year. They said, you
know why all these slot receivers are eating as much
as they have. It's a lot safer to go over
the middle now, right, can't touch them and they know
they can't be touched. Well, think about it, Ronnie Lott
playing center field, Ronnie a lot Lester Hayes. I mean,
you had these dudes that were just I mean their
their mode of operation was to put you out of
(14:53):
the game. They deterred you from taking that path.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Absolutely, and those days are over.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Those days are long gone. A couple other names to
get into. We saw Denzel Burke quite a bit at
Ohio State, and again product of him being a bona
fide draft prospect versus what you have up front. Yeah,
(15:20):
taking some pressure off.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
The one thing I'll say about him is he has
been He was a day one starter for them. That's
Ohio State. So like, I don't care who you are
as a true freshman you want to check. Yeah, you
walk on that campus. That means you're having to beat
out three or four guys to play, and you're a
true freshman. I also think that his sample size is
very encouraging. He's played a lot of football, chose to
come back to school all right after the loss to
(15:44):
Missouri and the Cotton Bowl, and then ended up winning
a national championship. I think there's value in that. So
the more of a sample size, the more there is
to evaluate and make a determination on.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
When it comes to.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Him, how much does scheme matter when you're drafting at
safety cornerback predominantly man, predominantly zoned. Does that come into
play or Hey, we just want the best guy and
we'll fit him into our scheme because he can play.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You know, I think it's more about mann to zone
than it is scheme because you can see when I
say man is zone, Okay, if you're gonna play man coverage, right,
that's fairly simple. You know who you're responsible for. Now
it comes down to are you going to play the
technique that you were coached? Are you going to be
aligned the way you're supposed to be lined? When it
gets to starting to be checks and zones and half
(16:33):
field zone, half field man, what have you. Now, there's
a thought process going on, and you can't get caught
up in letting your eyes go here when you're supposed
to be king there. I think I think there's a
whole different level of processing when it comes to that.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I do believe though, that the best safeties.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Regardless of the talent that they have or that they possess,
are they a hitter or are they a tackler?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
All that great?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Do they communicate to everybody else to make everybody right right?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
And that means.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Do we avoid a bust or a lapse in decisions
or being misaligned? Do we avoid that because we have
that one guy back there that makes sure it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And that was Xavier Woods for the Panthers the last
few years. Again, folks wanted more plays, more interceptions from Woods.
You didn't get that, But when he was out of
the lineup, it was clear they missed that communicator, right.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
And when that guy he kind of you just actually
said it best when he's not there, it becomes glaring.
When he's in there and you know he's doing it,
you don't quite have the same appreciation for it.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
The last thing here, and then we'll bring in Eugene Robinson,
who can shed a lot of light on the position
played at a high level for a long time. When
you're building a defense out, ye have the island corner
and you can take away essentially half the field Deion Sanders.
That allows the rest of the defense to do other
(18:07):
things we've seen it. Teams can be more aggressive. You
don't have to worry about leaving a guy on an
island because you can now bring more pressure. There's the
other part of it too. You build it from the
front seven and now if you're blowing up plays at
the line of scrimmage, maybe you can get away with,
you know, hiding a couple of people in the secondary
because the play takes a lot less time to develop.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, instead of it being three point eight to four
seconds and all of a sudden, it's two point seven
to three. And that's a long time in coverage, right,
So you start you start manipulating your back end through
the pressure and your and your ability in the front.
And really, if you're just looking at it, if you're
standing from the safety position and you're looking right down
(18:49):
at the ball.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You want to be strong.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Down the middle of the field, right, So your front,
your linebacker corep, your safety corps. That's the middle of
the field. And then the guys on the outside. If
you're any good up front, that's going to protect them.
Flip the vantage point for me, go back to your
playing days a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Uh huh?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
What's that second differential look like for you the secondary?
What do you mean that second differential?
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Oh? Goodness, I mean well, and a lot of it too.
First of all, let me say this, Sacks are not
an offensive line stat. They are a quarterback stat. If
you hold onto the ball, you're gonna get sacked. All right,
I'm sorry, you just are. I think that's one of,
in my opinion, shad Or Sanders's biggest flaws. All right,
(19:38):
he's got some bad habits in that regard. But when
you get why is too a tongue of II LOOA
never sacked? The ball is out of his hand. Now,
how does that happen? Well, it happens because he's prepared.
The coach is prepared. They know what's coming, and they
they they have an answer. Right, And so when you're
sitting back there and you're you're feeling like it's going
(20:01):
to be a jail break all the time.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
That's hard, right, And the.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Pictures changing and you're and you think you're seeing this
and you're actually seeing a ghost. And what does that do?
You start patting the ball. You start patting the ball,
bad things are going to happen. I think to me,
the passing game is so much about rhythm and timing
and getting the ball out of your hand that that
solves as many, if not all, of the problems when
(20:28):
it comes to handling path rush. And you have to
be able to have that clock go off in your
head because if you don't, it's going to be a
long day.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah. And you know, we've heard the Panthers coaches talk
about timing, timing right. Dan Morgan has preached patients building
this thing from the trenches out right, you get the
offensive line in place like they did a year ago,
all of a sudden, that helps Bryce. He's got more
time to throw right. That gives the receivers more time
(20:58):
to get open. It makes the defense cover for a
longer period of time. That's that little element that you know, hey,
this isn't happening, This isn't happening. It's about time. And
then on the flip side, the Panthers defensively had their struggles,
so the opponent had more time for the running back
to get to the hole. They had more time for
the quarterback to set, go through his reads and throw.
(21:20):
And they've talked about, hey, we want to shorten the
clock on defense, right and lengthen it on offense. It
seems the easiest way to do that is again building
from inside out.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Yes, because that's it begins and ends there. You can
plug all the other pieces around that. But if you
don't have that, you'll get exactly what we saw from
the Panthers defense a year ago.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And I'm gonna tell you right now.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You can talk coaching all you want, but the coach
doesn't have any eligibility and the coach is another contract
to go on the field. So you got to have players.
You got to have better players. And once you have that,
then all of a sudden things start coming together and
you can do a little bit more. You have a
little more confidence in your team. You get a couple
of three and outs. Now all of a sudden, the
(22:04):
wins start shifting. And sometimes it just takes a couple
of those to change the nature of your defense.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
The silver lining here is if they can do defensively
this offseason what they were able to accomplish offensively last year,
all of a sudden, that should be seen on the
field tangibly in more wins. You take a defense that
was historically bad for a lot of reasons, injuries amongst them.
(22:32):
You get that to average and you see not anything exponential,
but just continued growth offensively from Bryce, from the offensive line,
from the skill guys in the NFC South. You're going
to be in the mix.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
You are going to be in the mix. And I
want to go back to the defense for a second.
Is you know everybody talks about Okay, well the sack
numbers were low. Okay, well how low was affecting the quarterback?
Well it wasn't even that they couldn't stop the run.
Well no, yeah, something run. But when when let's just say,
and that's the problem is they're there. They were never
able to get the opposing offense behind the chains. Right,
(23:09):
So if you can't win on first down and all
of a sudden, it's second and four, right, Well, now
you don't have to throw the football on offense.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
If you don't want to.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
But if you win on that first down, right, and
you either stop the run for a game of zero
or a gain of one or even two, now you
change the thought process of the offense and what they're
going to do on second down. You never Panthers never
gave people the opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
No, I mean it was at a point where they
were so beat up in the front seven teams would
run the ball, run the ball. There was a stretch
where they were giving up two hundred yards per game
on the ground, seemingly every week getting cashed all of
a sudden. You'd love to use those blitz packages. Yeah,
I love to dial up in third and thirteen. But
(23:51):
you can't do it on second and three. I mean
you can, but you're risking.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
It, right, I know that's tough, man, And but again,
it takes a little bit of a chain. You get
a little chain and all of that, and it starts
having a trickle down effect.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
The Weekend Warriors Draft Special is brought to you by
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It's going to be paired with co branded merch fit
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(24:54):
or older to participate and be eligible. He played six
to seasons in the NFL, eleven with the Seahawks. He
also played for the Packers and Falcons before finishing up
with the Carolina Panthers. Former Super Bowl champion Eugene Robinson
joining us. Eugene, we brought you in because I know
how much you love talking about DB's you know that's right.
(25:18):
This defensive backfield for the Carolina Panthers. We're gonna see
a rebuilt safety room. But I'm gonna start with one
piece who I know throughout the course of the season.
When we did Panther Talk on Mondays, you raved about
Demani Richardson, eh undrafted free agent out of Texas A.
And is Demani Richardson someone that you see as a
(25:40):
potential starter for twenty twenty five?
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Absolutely, And I'll tell you why, because not only he
has a great feat, but one thing of being at
free safety you have to be around the ball, whether
that's in the passing game or whether that's in the
running game.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You got to be that last guy to stop.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
And then you got to be an open field tackler,
a great open field tackler. And he chucked the boxes
for me. He was always around the bomb. Like, dude,
this guy keeps showing up. He keeps showing up, he
keeps showing up, And I'm like, Okay. Then when the
open field tackle, and I've been in that space where
you got the guy can go two different ways, he
cuts off the angle and he makes a solid tack.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I'm going, dude, I can live with that.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
And then the only thing that I thought he lacked
is that he's not like Wood was. Well, he's a
communicator and talking. But he'll learn that. I had to
learn that. I had to learn to be loud and
to talk, and you had to learn that I had
to learn to be loud because typically when you're a rookie,
you don't want to say anything and you're like everything
is like you defer to the the ken easily, you
(26:39):
defer to the other people.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
You don't say anything.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
But when you find your voice, imagining your ability, oh,
then you then you become really like almost braggadocious.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You're like you let every you let everybody know.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
And so I think once he gets a handle of
Everell's defense of what he wants, where he wants people
at when you need to make the text, I think
he's going to be outstanding. I know he can catch
the ball, I know, but he's a better tackler and
the open field. And that's the commodity that you gotta
have at the position. If you don't have it at
(27:12):
the position, you're free. Safety is a liability.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I want you to further elaborate on that because Anisia
and I were talking about how whether it's a linebacker
or in the back end safety corner, what have you
and you're expected to be a great tackler. It's a
collision sport and you you know whether it's run fits,
whether it's angles.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
This and that.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
But the the game has become so protected that you
can't even tackle practicing anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know. That's a that's an interesting point. So how
are you supposed to be any good at it?
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Because you you could practice the thud tackling. Yeah, you
got to get your head out of the surface area
now and you got to get it behind with the
road tackles and the hawk tackles that they do now.
But you still can practice where you thought up ad
and you you get into you get into space. It's
almost like if you're about to get in a fight
with somebody and you get in there space. You got
(28:01):
to be able to get into a guy's space where
he knows that he only has one way to go
and then you shoot your shadow at him. So from
that's to that point, you can practice that. But the
hardest thing to do is these running backs are too good. Yeah,
I mean like they'll make they'll make you miss stiff
arm you're down in the ground, or say kwan baklea
jump over you backwards or something like that.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
So you gotta be really good. And one thing I
like about h.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
Richardson is that he doesn't dive down on the ground
to make that tackle. Blow your knees. Guy's gonna jump
over top of you. He'll stay up top waist high
to make that really that dire fram shot. That's a
really good tackle.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
We were talking about this to you, Gene, where we'll
stick with safeties. You can't play that position like you
played it. You can't play that position like it was
played in your era. So with all the limitations on
how he can hit where he can hit, slot receivers
are eating a lot more this you say, you know
in this day and age for a good reason. Just
(29:00):
the are how do you play that position out? What
do you look for in a prospect?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
So I want him to be able to get his
head out of the surface making when you have to
make that tackle in the open field on the guy
on a slant, that you don't hit him in the
jaw on the head, so that you really kind of
concentrate really on his torso where he has to bend,
and that's where at the diaphragm. When you start to bend,
you're gonna make your tackle at that level. You know,
even if you show the tackle, you're gonna make it
(29:25):
at that level. But you're gonna make sure that you
get your shoulder down in that area because that gets
your head really out of the surface area of hitting
the guy in the face. And so from that standpoint,
you can practice that, and they've been practicing that a lot.
I'm talking about the hit where you make a statement
where you're not an Do Dow. Yeah, yeah, one of
those not to tackle where you tackle him and you
start delivering play Another day, I'm talking about that tackle
(29:47):
where you can go and make a nice collision and
get your head out of the surface area. And you
do that by it's a diaphragm shot right where he bins.
That's where you catch him, and then you slide your
body up because once my body hits you right here
in your diaphragm, not slide up to you. The contact
has been made there already, and so now I'm not
penalized for hitting you as my shoulder comes up underneath
(30:07):
your chin.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Well, at least you.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
Shouldn't be right. At least you shouldn't be so because
you already made the contact.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
You mentioned something in terms of communication, you know, you
always hear that phrase other quarterback of the defense and
all those sorts of things. In draft preparation. Draft preparation,
you can see the height, the weight, the speed. You
can watch the tape and this and that. How do
you truly unveil who is the guy that is the
pied piper gets everybody lined up? How who do you
(30:36):
go to to say, hey, if I need this guy
to do this, this, this, this and this, and it's
all aptitude and communication, all right, how do you investigate that?
Speaker 5 (30:45):
So one, every every coach, every college coach is going
to know who that guy in the room is.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
He's gonna know that, all right.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Now, whether that guy is the guy gets interceptions or
mixed tackles, or maybe he's just not the this stuper duperstar,
everybody knows who's that person, and everybody always relies on
that person. Because here is like a Dion Sanders had
different people to go and help him because he got
to be d On, but he wasn't. He wasn't making
any adjustments. He's listening to people. Man, get over there,
(31:16):
Dion Oh, lock him down, Dion Oh. Dryl Reeve is
the same way, lock him down. You got him, d reeve,
you got him. But all that stuff that goes on communication,
that's typically your free safety or your middle linebacker, and
hopefully it is your free safety because they're the one
person that's not accounted for in the blocking scheme at all.
They're back about fifteen yards and if they can go ahead,
(31:38):
if you When I see Richardson, I've seen this, and
this is Xavier Woods says credit. When I see him
doing this and looking back forward, when I see that,
I'm like, oh, I already know he's yelling stuff and
he's doing communication. I know that he's getting he's directed,
he's directing traffic, and that's what I want him to
be able to do. If I don't see the safety
doing like you never see Troy pol Model was doing
(32:00):
stuff like this. He's getting told Larroy Butler, love Larroy Butler.
But Laurie Butler's listening to me, l Roy, listen over there,
get over there right now, we're gonna shift the defense.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
He's listening to that.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
So from that standpoint, you always know and every coach
knows who that guy is in the locker room, and
so that's where it comes to whoever's drafting this snet.
If I'm Dan Morgan, I want to talk to I
want to who's this position coach?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I want to know how vocal is this guy?
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, and then I want to see it on the film,
because typically you see it on the film by guy directed.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah. Shifting to corners. You know, Lukes and I were
talking about, Hey, if the Panthers are picking at eight,
assuming they don't trade down a guy like Will Johnson,
who could be another shutdown corner opposite JC Horn, You're
you're doubling down on a strength. Would that make sense?
Or is the need in the front seven too great?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
The knee in the front seven is too much? Dude?
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Look, I know I'm gonna get Dereck brown Back. DJ
one was a beast. He came off injury and I'm like, oh,
hold on, wait a minute, man, this dude right here.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Just a pass rush.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I know, we got a pass rush.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Now, imagine getting Derek brown Back in the mixed Shi
Teto Robinson, guys who are serviceable at that position. You
just got another guy who can go ahead and rush,
a guy who's going to take up two people. And
now you got DJ Wantam freed up, so I think
that the need is too great. I know this Wallace,
I know uh Jose Jewel, I get it. But I'm like,
where is that linebacker? That's where's my beast? And my
(33:30):
Luke Keickley? My dam moore? Where's that do that man?
Where's that do that?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Is?
Speaker 5 (33:35):
He is a dude? Is he the dude for the
uh Georgia the walker cadd? Is he?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Is he the other dude? I can't pronounce a nice schwirschwinger. Guy?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I'm here?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Is you c l a guy?
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Where's that guy? And here's the thing about Luke Keickley.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be yelling at people.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It's okay. You had a couple of couples of.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
I have some miss here. But here's the thing about
Luke Keickley. What was Luke Kickley known for when he
came out of Beast see man? He was known for
being tackling machine dude. He let the he let the
whole country and tackles dude. And when I saw him
in person at the at block water or the encourage
your wad or whatever, that he won all that other
stuff water he won. I'm sitting there going like this,
(34:15):
that's Luke Kekickley man. That dude's a beast man. And
then when we picked him, I was like, hold up,
we just got one of the greatest linebackers that nobody
knows about. Nobody knows they're going, who's this Luke Kickley guy?
When we see that Luke Keickley is the first ballot
Hall of Famer. Yeah, only because they only had four
people going in. That's the only reason why, Luke. I'm
just shouting to Luke Keickley, but that's the only reason.
(34:36):
But Luke Kickley is that guy. Where's that guy on
our team? When you look on that defensive front, that
defensive seven, you don't see it. And that's where I
think we're lacking because whoever is that? If I'm Dan Morgan,
I'm looking, where's my linebacker at? He already played the position,
he knows, he knows, and here it is. I don't
(34:57):
need another cornerback. Jackson is service both. He's really good,
all right. I don't need another cornerback because I need
a pass rush, getting the cast faces, bust some dues
up with my front seven. My front seven makes that
defensive backfield makes it look great because you can't. You
can't get the ball off. And that's what I need
to go ahead and build that front seven.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
We touched on that earlier, we did and I listen,
I pressure burst the pipe, right, you know that's right, right?
And so we can sit here and talk about all
this skill on the back end. Well, if they're out
there on an island forever, they're gonna lose.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
They're gonna lose. They're gonna lose.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
From from your perspective of playing in the defensive secondary,
I'm gonna take Ja de Baron for example from Texas.
He was a safety his first four years, moves out
the corner and has an All American season, but he's
not very tall.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
What do you do with a guy like that? So
I think kind of like Captain Munlan, not a tall guy.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Right, Guys so much mocksy is so much good feet,
good hands. And then whenever you got a guy who's
not tall, this is what you have to realize. Like
he's been told that his entire life that got you ship.
You ain't that guy. You ain't that guy. You ain't
that guy. And he's been proving everybody wrong that he's
that guy. And so even when he gets to the
NFL and he goes at the nickel. He doesn't care
(36:21):
what position he plays because he got a chip on
the shoulder saying, you're looking for this guy who's six',
three you, Know Isaiah. Simmons When Isaiah simmons came, out
everybody was all Over isaiah's absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Everybody oh everybody around here Wanted Isaiah brown.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Exactly and then when we look at the struggles Of Isaiah,
simmons now you sit, there, go, well hold, on wait a,
MINUTE i think we locked up and we took the right, person, right,
yeah here that it's really a crapshoot BECAUSE i can't
measure what's inside your.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
HEART i don't know what type of dog you got in.
YOU i don't know any of that.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Stuff you, know you can have good hand skills and,
snap but you want to determines a lot here in
The National Football. League that's Why Jase, horn, right Jayse
horn is a.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Cat.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
RIGHT i know he's been, hurt but guess, WHAT i
know that he wants, it AND i know that he
doesn't care who he lines up against because he don't
think that you could beat.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Him that's what he.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Thinks he firmly believes that you can't beat, me all,
right prove it to. Me and that's how he. Feels
SO i can't measure. That you can't measure what that looks.
Like Thomas, Davis, Louke Keikley, Beason Dan. Morgan all that
want to is at a high, level a, high super duper.
Level and when you're playing at that, LEVEL i don't
care if you're six.' two i don't care if you're.
(37:36):
FIVE eight i don't care If You're. BARRY sanders i
don't care if, the dude what's the other?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Running?
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Back dude and it was second runner up In the heisman.
This year the Dude Man.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Ashton, jensens yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
That, dude. Right DUDE all i know is that cat.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Right there he can't wait to get out there because
he's gonna prove. Everybody wrong he's Gonna Say kwan Barkley
Leaves new york and everybody thinks he's. Washed up everybody
thinks that his better days were behind him and ahead. Of,
him dude and then he totally changed the face of
what running backs look, like now and everybody's looking For That.
(38:15):
Sakuon barkley EVERYBODY'S looking i can't measure what's in your heart.
At ALL and i don't care what side. YOU are
i don't care if you can play and you can
ball of course.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
If, you like you know five two of. ITS alignment
i think you.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
CAN'T measure i think you can. Measure CHOLESTEROL but.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I don't Know what.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
I'm saying But what i'm you Know what. I'm saying
but we. Can't measure we can't.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Measure.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
That now i'm not gonna put him on the island
against You Know kelvin johnson who's. Six', six YOU know
if i do put him, On the island i'm gonna
rotate the safety over the.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Top of Him that's what.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
I'm gonna do but that's what you do for somebody,
like like that, or you say hey, man and man,
you got him mes?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You got, him cat coverage you know? That that cat you?
Got that cat you. Got that CAT guess how i
do it?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
In, this division though when you look, at You, know the,
bucks for example They re Signed God when mike evans is,
still Going strong The Falcons With drake london Saints still
Have christ so.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
LAVA don't forget i Don't Know what besha robinson he's
just he's just, A beast anyway.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
He's just that. He's, a nightmare yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
How much during the draft and, addressing your needs are
you kind of looking at, your immediate competition the teams
that you play, twice every, year and saying we we
got to get somebody to match. UP with, THEM i
mean i go back To when The Falcons, said mike
vick That's why the panthers Went And got.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
Thomas davis exactly And Don't forget thomas davis was a
safety when he, first got here and then he got
moved to linebacker and. He WAS one And I told
thomas davis, AT the time, i WAS like do i
haven't seen people?
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Hit Like That.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
SAYS rodny, lot i. Said that's you you. JUST had,
due i said they don't, have the movie and they
moved him. To the linebacker People have assist so, from
that standpoint. You're AFTER right but i think. You're you're
right when WE look At i think tampa is like
maybe the standard that. You look, at you know of,
course the lobby, he's a Beast But man baker mayfield
(40:10):
made them special and made them, even, more relevant right
and then because he has The receivers of Evans, and
crew man you you gotta you gotta.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Count, FOR them now i thought that.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
WHAT we lacked i thought we lacked, the PASS rush
and i thought the pass rush because we like. The
pass rush Now You're Letting bakon maker mayfield eat, that,
First Game man bacon.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
MAYFIELD was eating i, mean he was he.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Was getting down and so, From that standpoint i'm, sitting,
and going dude you gotta be able to put pressure
on the quarterback and get in this dude's face to
make him throw when he doesn't want to, throw the
ball or make him relegated to, something that's. Very very
short AND that's why i think in this draft it
has to be. The front seven. It gotta be if
(40:54):
your defensive front, SEVEN ain't hitting i don't care who you.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Are back there jay c hornk.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Cover all, day he can't he won't, be able to
and he's gonna get mad at you because, he, was,
like hey man.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Defiss a bat, help. Me out amen hey that was four, or.
Five seconds man it.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
Can't be that and so the bar needs to be
coming out in two point eight seconds right around that
because you got to pass for us, in guy's face
and so That's what We that's what. I'm hoping for
and when we look, At our, division, I'm like DUDE
tampa was i thought the, standard it Was. And also
atlanta they, both BOUGHT out but i thought that towards
the end, OF the season i thought we were on
par with.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Both those teams.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
So to accomplish what, you're talking about you have, the
eighth pick don't pick again. Until fifty seven do you
trade down and try and get multiple picks to get
multiple bodies in.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
That, defensive front.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Well that's a really. GOOD calculated risk i. DON'T think
that i don't think they, HAVE the capital i mean
not the financial capital. TO do it i don't think
that when they look, across their team is that something
they want to go. AHEAD and do i think when
You Look at derek brown getting back, in the. Mix
(42:05):
that's huge that changes the entire complexion. Of that DEFENSE
and now i can be at number eight and. SEE
who falls i think one of the linebackers were talking,
ABOUT any linebacker i think they're going. To fall there
i'm hoping that they. Get a linebacker i'm not looking for.
A secondary person i don't think we need. A secondary
Person you MENTIONED.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Schwessinger from ucla you know who? Else liked Him?
Speaker 5 (42:29):
Who's that luke see ye see See that's. What I'M
talking and i believe he has one hundred and. THIRTY
six tackles i think he's like one hundred and, thirty six, tackles,
two interceptions hit eleven point five tackles for loss.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Somewhere around it, that tells me and only. Like twelve, games,
TWELVE games dude i, know that's. CRAZY that's insane i.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Think it's very telling That we brought eugene on to
talk defensive backs and he's kind of. Made, the case
hey the priority needs to be the seven. Guys, in
front man.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
You build a championship team from, the, inside out absolutely. Regardless.
Of sport absolutely problem is they're not standing on. EVERY
street corner.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I can GO you and i right now could throw
a rock outside and hit a wide receiver in that.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Because they're everywhere, because, they're everywhere, Right not, everywhere they're
everywhere but.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Not Those guys eugene robinson shedding some Light on. This
panther defense give me an exciting. Couple, Of months man i'm.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Looking.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
FOR that MAN i need i need a, dog, UP
front man i want one of the, dogs, to bark
DUDE that's.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
What i, need.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
I'M sorry dude i don't mean to. Be all out, i'm.
So loud, Dude i'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Ladies and gentlemen the weekend.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Close to The.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Episode caught Fite Feeling Touchdown
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Carolina Weekend warriors drab special
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