Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
Welcome to the ExploringNeurodiversity Podcast for adults
who support Neurodivergent children.
Whether you're an allied healthprofessional, medical professional,
education professional or aparent of a Neurodivergent
child, you are welcome here.
This podcast is recorded on the Aboriginallands of the Gadigal and Bidjigal people.
I acknowledge the traditional ownerselders past and present, and I extend
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my acknowledgement to any Aboriginalfirst nations people listening in.
I'm Adina from Play.
Learn.
Chat.
I'm an autistic ADHDer, a speechtherapist, professional educator
speaker, and I also supportNeurodivergent Business owners in
my other business, neurodivergentBusiness Coaching and Consulting.
I'm obsessed with creating a world whenNeurodivergent people are understood,
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embraced, supported, and celebrated.
A world where we Neurodivergentpeople can understand ourselves and
thrive in a life aligned with ourindividual strengths, wants and needs.
On the Exploring NeurodiversityPodcast, you'll get my
perspectives and conversationswith my Neurodivergent friends.
All about how adults can best supportNeurodivergent children in our lives.
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I bring a NeurodiversityAffirming approach and indeed a
human affirming approach to thesupport that we all provide for
Neurodivergent kids in our lives.
Let's dive in.
Hey folks.
I hope you're having a good week lastFriday, I gave a webinar to speech
therapists who support autistic children.
The webinar is called Turning Affirming.
Now, if you're listening whenthis comes out, you can actually
(01:30):
sign up for the full webinar.
It's available untilthe 4th of April, 2025.
Link is in the show notes if you wannago and check out the full webinar.
But there are some parts of the webinarthat I really wanted to share here on
the Exploring Neurodiversity podcastbecause some parts of it were especially
applicable to, well, absolutely anyonesupporting Neurodivergent Children.
(01:51):
So you'll catch a few parts of mywebinar turning affirming where I shared.
A bunch of ideas busting some classicmyths about what neurodiversity
affirming practice is and isn't so.
I hope you listen in.
Let me know what you think, andif you are a speech therapist, go
and check out my course AffirmingCommunication for Autistic Children.
(02:12):
It is open right now as Irelease this episode open also
until the 4th of April, 2025.
If you're listening after the fact,head over to the link anyway and
you can find out what's going onwith the course when it's opening.
I'll hop on the wait listif it's not open yet.
Enjoy me popping some myth Bubbles.
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Neurodiversity, affirming practice,even if we didn't know the terms or,
the structures or what it is
till recently, cause it's onlyin the last few years, we've
really been talking about it.
We, all, my parents, you, me,we were probably doing a lot of
this before we knew what it was.
So now we have some frameworks,some ideas and concepts and,
really clear ways to understandwhat is and what isn't affirming.
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In this webinar, we're focusingspecifically around autistic
children, but do know that somuch of what I teach and share.
Also applies to anyone, whether it's anadult, a child, neurodivergent or not,
identified or diagnosed or not.
It still applies because one ofthe things I love to teach and
share is neurodiversity affirmingis human affirming, meaning
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really, when we get down to the coreof what it is, what neurodiversity
affirming practice is, it's seeingpeople for who they are, honoring
them, respecting them, believing them,working with them to help them do the
things that are important for them.
myth.
Autistic children need to learn thatthings can't always go their way, so
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they need structure and firm boundariesin speech therapy sessions and in life.
Hand up if you've heard a version of this.
Maybe you've said a version of this.
I'm not going to ask you to out yourself.
You might see it as
old school thinking.
maybe like a generation aboveus might be the one who's like
thinking it and pushing it.
Or maybe
not necessarily.
One of you said a BCBA told you today,just today, to ignore the screaming.
(04:02):
this is happening.
these sort of ideas of
Don't worry about what the kid thinks,
make sure they do what we want and need.
this power over children is somethingI just will never understand, honestly.
But some people want it andfeel that they need to have it.
so one of you asked the question,what about when they perseverate on
the same thing over and over again?
And the question there
is that a bad thing?
and
why is that happening?
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Where is the problem there?
You need to really question that.
Is it an issue or is it justa neurotypical assumption
that we continually need tomove on to different things?
or is it that they're doingthat for a reason that feels
safe and secure for them?
And they need that certainty, theyneed that repetition, which tells
us maybe other things for that childare feeling not good and not okay.
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So addressing Theconnection, the safety, the,
sensory environment, who's aroundthem, their sense of predictability,
that might help thatchild shift into new ideas
in time.
If somebody is sticking on an idea,
there's a reason for it.
You still hear this?
Yeah.
You hear this occasionally?
Yeah.
Occasionally.
I feel like it's dimming, thissort of hardline approach, maybe.
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So here's the thing, and this comesback to like me and the washing.
An autistic child having a meltdown
insisting that things gotheir way, air quotes,
that's a child in distress.
There are many factors that cancontribute to their distress there.
Sensory regulation, emotional regulation,relational safety, need for certainty,
all these things we've discussed.
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When a child is in distress, itis not the time to try and enforce
boundaries and teach them a lesson,
because it's only going to lead to trauma,shame, and withdrawal, and shutdown, and
meltdown, and all of those other things.
It's not the time to teachwhen somebody is in distress.
We need to first ensurethat a child feels okay.
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And when they do, then wecan start to extend them.
And sometimes the extending themis putting a boundary into place.
Now I will say, and there's alot that I share about this in my
other work, like in my AffirmingCommunication for Autistic Children
course, in my Affirming Approaches toSupporting Behavior webinar as well,
where there is a case foractual real boundaries.
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But they're so much less oftenneeded than we possibly might think.
So we need to really think carefullyif we're putting a boundary
in place for a safety reason,
okay, you're not going to let anautistic child run outside to the
balcony and jump off the balcony.
Because that is incredibly dangerous.
that's an understatement, right?
We still have boundaries.
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So yes, you are going to closethe door and lock the door.
because we're keepingthat child safe and that.
is a boundary that isabsolutely appropriate.
And yes, the child might absolutelyhate that, but we might then
find another way to supportthem if they want to be outside.
We'll go find a way to get themoutside in a place that is safe.
So much more to say on that,and I do, in my other content.
yeah,
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I just want to flag there is a casefor boundaries, but we've got to be
really careful about when wechoose them and what they are.
and it's not about punishing a child,it's not about power over a child,
it's about really thinking carefully,what does this child need for safety,
and the people around them as well.
Myth.
neurodiversity affirming speech therapygoes against evidence based practice.
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So this is the
But the research says myth.
And here is how it looks, andagain I'm taking this directly
from a comment I have seen online.
but the research says weshould do speech practice in
focused intensive blocks daily.
So I need to find a way tomake sure Bailey does this.
I did change the name by theway, but she hates it when we
do this kind of speech practice.
that's a myth because how we applythe research, the formal published
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research, that is where we are actuallyexercising our clinical judgment.
That is our job.
Our real job is understanding theconnection between what is the
published research and how doesthat fit the child in front of us?
I have a framework that I havespoken about in my podcast series.
I've got a mini podcast course,evolve your affirming practice.
(08:01):
give me a little hands upif you're part of that.
And if you've listened to that,awesome, you can still get it.
By the way,
and that's where I go much deeperinto this topic, but I've given you
the resource and I'm going to gothrough the filters that we can apply
to thinking through, Oh, but how dowe apply the research to this child?
So if you are interested that QR code,
should take you there.
It's another free thing
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and it's podcast based, so youcan just sign up and it goes
in your ears as four episodes.
And one whole episode is on this topic
now.
My Affirming Filters for EvaluatingEvidence Framework has three filters
that we think through to go okay,
does the published researchactually fit this child?
What we think we're supposed to do because
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the journal article said so,
or the manual said so, what does thatmean for the child in front of us?
So filter one is theclient centered filter.
Does this evidence align with the goals,strengths, and lived experiences of
this individual child and their family?
Number two, the meaningfuloutcomes filter.
Does the outcome being measuredreflect something that genuinely
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improves the child's quality of life?
And really,
I go into this in thepodcast, but I've got a flag.
So often the kids that we're actuallysupporting, the autistic kids, disabled
kids, the multiply marginalized kidswho are at the intersections of all
these different identities, they areoften excluded from the research.
So what is published in journal articlesvery often is not actually representative
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of the kids we're supporting.
The inclusive evidence filter.
Does this evidence take into accountdiverse perspectives including lived
experience, marginalized voices,and internal evidence from your
own practice, life, and experience?
So much more guidance and examplesaround this in that podcast episode.
I'll pop it up again if you do wantto go and register for that one.
(09:48):
So there's no time limit,that one's just available.
and you've got the handout in yourworkbook, so those filters should be what
you need to help think through and broadenyour idea about how do we actually apply
the evidence, the hardcore journalarticles, if they do indeed exist, to the
child in front of us, and how else do wegather evidence to inform what we do with
kids to
support
them
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. myth.
Autistic kids should learn to speak,otherwise people won't understand them.
Now, I talk a lot about changingthe world around a child
and
that's this piece.
The people around themwon't understand them.
That's up to the world,the people around a child.
to adjust to understandthe child in front of them.
And if that means learning signlanguage, and if that means learning
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how to use and understand AAC,
device, and if that means,
any other form of understanding thechild, maybe it's a communication
dictionary for the child's,
their idiosyncratic behavioursand gestures that they use,
that is on the world aroundthem to change, to adjust, to
understand the child better.
That is our responsibility to helpthe parents, the teachers, the other
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kids understand that child better.
And for you to understandthat child better.
It's not the autistic child's job to learnto meet your communication requirements
if that's not right for the child.
Speech is not the bestform of communication.
It is not the only form of communication.
I'm loving some of the emojis comingin through the webinar chat because
I can actually see them, perceivethem, get a vibe of what you're
(11:15):
up to and what you're thinkingwithout me having to do the language
processing while I'm trying to talk.
That's awesome.
That's so cool.
that's my little example right here.
I am doing body language,
we're doing gestures,
that's.
So many valid ways to communicate.
More to the point, there isno invalid way to communicate.
And if a child is not ready for speech,and speech is not reliable, or it's not,
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their best or only or a consistentway of communicating, or even if it
normally is, but in that moment, speechis not their best way of communicating,
Then it's not their bestcommunication method.
We need to support them to be able tocommunicate in whatever way they can
that is right for them in that moment.
It will fluctuate and that's okay.
And respecting that is important too.
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So just to
hammer this one home.
All communication is valid.
We might need to do some self work.
Unpacking some ableist expectations thatspeech is the best way to communicate.
I hope that you've got a few clearerideas now about what neurodiversity
affirming practice is and isn't, and afew more ideas for how you can talk about
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these misconceptions with other people.
If you are a speech therapist, goand check out my course Affirming
Communication for AutisticChildren and let me know if you
have any questions about it.
Thank you so much for sharingthis space and time with me.
Thank you for being open tolearning and unlearning and to
listening to the perspectives andexperiences of Neurodivergent folks.
If you found this episode helpful,please share it with a friend, share a
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screenshot on Instagram, pop a five starrating and a review in your favorite app.
And join me on Instagram and Facebook.
I'm @play.Learn.chat.
Have a beautiful day.