March 30, 2025 • 16 mins
Curious how to support autistic kids in speech therapy without trying to change how they play? This 17 min episode is for you!
“Play and genuine playfulness—that is the context where learning, engagement and all the other things happen.”
I'm sharing a live Q&A on Instagram (@play.learn.chat) every day Mon-Fri this week (31st March - 4th April) - share a Q by DM or email me! Ask Qs about Neurodiversity Affirming Speech Therapy support for Autistic Children, or Qs about my course Affirming Communication for Autistic Children!
In this session I'm answering Qs and sharing thoughts and examples about:
• Why writing goals about changing a child’s play is missing the point, and what to do instead
• What Neurodiversity Affirming play support really looks like, including examples of better goal wording
• Why adult goals should be part of kids’ therapy plans, and how we can write progress notes that align with affirming practice
To get deeper and more actionable support around these topics and more, join me in my course!
The Affirming Communication for Autistic Children Course is NOW OPEN for enrollments! Doors close on Friday 4th April, 1pm Sydney time (AEDT)
All the info is here: https://playlearnchat.com/acac-course/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello.
(00:00):
Welcome.
These Q and as, I'm gonnarun them all this week.
They're gonna be 10 to 15 minutes,so not a long time that you've gotta
sit there holding your phone out.
Um, and my whole idea with thiswas just a casual way for me
to hop on and answer a bunch ofquestions that have been coming in.
And I know there are more, I'mencouraging more questions.
Questions about how to supportautistic children in speech therapy
(00:24):
or speech pathology sessions.
I prefer therapy as.
Yeah, I like the wordtherapy more than pathology.
Seems more affirming and helpful.
Um, and the other kind of question I'll betalking about is questions about my course
affirming communication for autisticchildren, which is open right now.
Monday I'm talking and it closes on.
Friday this week.
So I've got a bunch of questionscoming in and I thought this might
(00:46):
be the most, um, effective way to,uh, yeah, just kind of help you
out and get you some clarification.
If you've been joining in on theEvolve your Affirming Practice podcast
series that is still available.
Um, so you can send a comment ora message if you don't have a link
to that and I can hook you up.
Um, if you've been watchingmy Turning Affirming webinar.
A lot of the questions I've gotalready, I've got a couple of
(01:08):
questions around play support.
That came in after that webinar.
So I thought today will kick off withthose questions, but I really encourage
you to share other questions in the chat.
If I can't get them to them today,I will come back to them, you know,
over the rest of the week as longas they're, you know, relevant.
And on this topic.
Just checking if I haven'tmissed anything here.
(01:29):
'cause it's just me.
I don't wanna miss anything.
Oh, you love my talk atNoah's art conference.
Yay.
Yay.
It was very special.
I gave a speech to an amazing, um,organization last week, and it was
yeah, a really, really special thing.
So thank you.
Thank you for being there.
And here.
Okay.
Play.
I talk a lot about the idea that allplay is okay, and also I talk a lot about
(01:54):
this idea that I don't believe we shouldhave play goals for anyone really, um,
or for autistic children especially.
So why, and this might be throwingsome people, which is why I get a lot
of questions following up on this.
The reason is because I see play asthe context for all the other stuff.
(02:14):
Kids learn best through playand autistic kids learn even.
Better through play.
They need play playfulness, connection,joy, engagement as the context for
learning even more than neurotypicalkids or non-autistic kids do.
I'm not saying it's not important foranyone, I'm just saying for autistic
kids, we need to really be thinkingthat play and genuine playfulness.
(02:37):
That is the context where learning,engagement and all the other
things happen have a sip of water.
And I'm gonna get my question up.
I've got my notes here with the questions.
I don't mi I hope I haven't missed any.
Hi, Julia.
See you there.
Yay.
Okay, this question, I actually thinkthis question came out of my, uh, play
(03:01):
conference talk, but it's the same topic.
It's exactly a perfect topic.
So again, I thought this is theperfect place to answer it 'cause
it's sitting there in my inbox.
Uh, so someone shared, do you have anyexamples of how to write play type goals?
Our team says they have to includesome type of play goals, so I wanted to
see other ways of addressing this now.
(03:21):
The first thing I'm gonna say is,can we question, um, this rule,
our team says that we have toinclude some type of play goal.
Like why, um, question.
It tr to understand the thinkingand the purpose behind that rule.
Why is that there ata service based level?
And perhaps then do some advocacyif that is tied up with these
(03:44):
ideas that we need to be, um.
And changing children's play, whichis what I'm trying to bust here.
That's what we're trying to shift.
So we're questioning that assumption,but okay, let's say it's there.
Maybe there's a really valid reason.
Um, maybe and for whatever reason we're,we are working within that structure.
So then I go to this idea, if we haveplay goals for children, I actually
(04:11):
believe that they should be adult goals.
Meaning the goal is.
It is not about the child.
The goal is, the goal is notabout changing the child's play.
The goal is not about thechild doing something in play.
'cause the moment we have prescriptivegoals like that, we are saying we
don't think the way the child plays isacceptable and we need to change it.
(04:34):
And that is what we are trying to shiftwith neurodiversity affirming approaches.
We are trying to take this idea that.
How somebody wants to play, even ifit looks different to our checklists
or to what we might have learned tolike the developmental trajectories
of how plays should look, which mightfit neurotypical kids doesn't have
to be followed for autistic kids.
(04:56):
And if an autistic child wants tocontinue to play by lining things up,
or they want to continue to play withsounds and just use their mouth to
make sounds, or they want to play byrunning up and tapping a wall all the
time, and that's how they wanna play.
That's okay.
There's always the caveat, and I'vegot a lot more about this in my
(05:16):
course affirming communication forautistic children in various podcast
episodes where I've talked about this.
Um, and yeah, so there's, there's a lotmore I go into it, but I, I will just call
that the nuance, like, we're not sayingthat a child can do absolutely anything
that want, so if there's actual harm inthe way that they naturally want to play.
Might hurt them, might hurtsomeone else, um, emotionally,
(05:37):
physically, it might damage property.
Then yes, there is a case to shiftthat, but we're still working within the
context of what is right for the child.
And rather than shift their play tolook neurotypical, we're trying to find
a medium that honors the way that theynaturally want to express themselves
and enjoy the world, while also makingsure that it's not causing actual harm.
(05:59):
But you know.
Um, these goals, like old school goals, Iknow they're still around about changing a
child's play, changing an autistic child'splay to look more normal or typical.
That's what causes harm.
That causes harm to autistic children.
So that there, let me justcheck where I have gone.
Where I haven't gone in my response.
(06:25):
Okay, so goals.
Look, let's say you've got to puta goal down about play for a child.
I really want this goal to saysomething like, for the child to
express their personal preferencesand self-advocate during play.
Uh, for example, choosing an activity,requesting for something to stop,
um, using any communication modewith modeling and with support.
(06:47):
Something along those lines.
So that is.
So, so key that we're not saying thechild needs to play in a certain way.
We're saying within the contextof play, the child can learn
and practice other skills.
Yes.
Oh, hi Jess.
And it's, yes, it is important.
Let the kids explore how they prefer to.
Hi.
Kay.
Nice to see you all here.
(07:08):
Yes.
Um, that's so.
It feels, it feels obvious, butI know I gotta keep saying it.
And then I know many of you, you get it,you kind of hear it and then you go, but
how does it fit the service that I'vealways done or the goals that I've got
all these templates in my reports thatsay I need to talk about the child's play
development stages and things like that.
Yeah, we're, we're doing alot of changing and shifting.
(07:32):
And so in my course affirmingCommunication for Autistic
Children, module two is whereI go into this a lot more.
We talk about communication,interaction, and play.
So there's a lot more examples and,um, you know, kind of see it in action.
I really encourage you, if you area speech therapist, to check it out.
I think it will work here.
I hope so.
Where you should, if you'reon Instagram with me now.
(07:53):
You should be able to comment ac, ac, andthen the link will head to your inbox.
If it doesn't, I'll find yourmessage later and send it to you.
Um, and look, I also mentioned,I think we need goals for
the grownups around a child.
I really wanna see these in kids' goalplans in as many settings as possible.
It's often missing like we might think.
We have an idea in mind, okay, we'regonna help the child achieve these goals.
(08:16):
And we have these like covert goals forgrownups that we kind of know in our head.
We wanna talk to the parent aboutthis, we wanna help them, um, help
the parent understand something.
We wanna help the teachersupport the child.
And too often those goalsare not written down.
I want adult goals to be writtendown in kids' goal plans, in their
reports, in their recommendations.
Something like, um.
(08:39):
Johnny's parent will learn to see the waythat Johnny loves to play and join Johnny
in that play when Johnny's open to it.
Something along those lines.
So I want to see.
That there are waysthat we're calling out.
We are changing theworld around the child.
We are making the changes in the grownupsaround the child that will help the
(09:03):
child feel more connected, feel moresupported, be able to communicate,
be able to learn better, all of that.
Um, ah, thank you.
That's such a cool question.
Um.
So, okay, you've askedhow was my play as a kid.
There's a photo I share alot and maybe I'll pop it up
today of my stories if I can.
Um, because it's soamazing that it exists.
It's a photo of me age three, sittingwith balloons that are not blown up.
(09:26):
Because balloons that are blown up, whilethey're beautiful, they're very scary.
'cause they might go boom.
And it's a real conflicting thing.
Um, so I'm sitting, I've made likea, an arc almost of like these
balloons around me, perfectly linedup, not in perfect chromatic order,
which is how I would do it now.
I still line things up.
I've got my nail polish, I've gotmy pens, they're all lined up.
That's how I still play now.
(09:46):
It's joyful, it'scalming, it's regulating.
Now just imagine.
That a grownup came in and told me That'snot how you play with balloons and took
a balloon and started to blow it up.
I, again, this conflicting thing, Iwould've loved it 'cause balloons blown up
are fun, but also it's freaking terrifyingbecause they will go pop at some point.
And I hate that.
I'm even my heart rate's raising now.
(10:08):
Um, you know, we do not haveto change how kids play.
So get really reflective.
Look at the goals thatyou've got written down.
Look at the structuresyou're working within.
And see where the change needs to be made.
Again, if you wanna learn more about it,I have so much more in my course, and so
I think you should be able to comment onInstagram, ac ac, and the link will head
over to you, um, so you can learn more.
(10:30):
But oh, and obviously if you're listeningon the podcast, it'll be in the show
notes and all that info as well.
So the second question thatI had come in about play.
It came off.
Yeah, it really bouncesnicely off this goal question.
So this was, something asked,actually two people were commenting
and asking, um, during my webinar.
(10:51):
So I did the turning affirmingwebinar for speech therapists.
We were busting a bunch of myths.
It's actually, the recordingis still available.
So if you are, depends when you'relistening before the 4th of April, 2025,
it'll be available to watch or listen to.
Um, send me a message if youneed help accessing that.
Now one of them said, thankyou for your amazing webinar.
(11:12):
Thank you.
I had fun doing it.
Uh, one of our lovely friends askedthe question, how do we write a
progress note after a play session?
And I commented.
So the other person then commented,uh, that the university always said
they needed a measurable goal andwe need to justify our decisions.
Um, so these two people sort ofhad this question going in the
chat and I said, that is awesome.
I'm gonna address it later.
So
(11:35):
this is the thing.
I think it again, comesback to what the goals are.
If we have goals that are writtenabout asking a child to change how
they play, then sure it follows that.
Our progress note is gonna be talkingabout how did the child play, did
it meet our expectations of whatwe think the play should look like?
But if we have better goals, if we havegoals that are all about communication,
(11:55):
connection, advocacy, self-advocacy,uh, changing the world around the child,
changing the knowledge of the peoplearound the child, if those are the
goals we have, having progress notes.
That fit those goalsjust flows from there.
So for example, um, you couldhave something like, you can
certainly write in your goals.
What did the child enjoy?
What kind of play did they enjoy?
(12:16):
So we're just commentingon what was the context?
What, you know, how did the engagement go?
We are just describing what didthey like to do, how did they play?
And take that as your moment tolook really deeply like what is
engaging and interesting for thechild, not just they played with
blocks that's not very informative.
What did they love doing with the blocks?
How did that shift?
How did that progress?
Did they allow you to join in?
(12:37):
Did they want you to join in?
And then you can go to talkingabout your other goals.
And it doesn't have to be about play.
It's then, you know, howdid the communication go?
Um, did they self advocate, uh, you know,whatever those other goals are, maybe
you have literacy goals and they're builtinto wherever that play context happens.
Maybe the literacy goals.
(12:57):
Are built within that, and then youjust comment on those literacy skills.
But you've already underlined,you know, this is in the context
of play, this specific kind ofplay that the child enjoyed.
I'm gonna just check back to thequestion if I've missed anything.
Um, also keep any questions coming.
I'll yeah.
Again, I might answer them now or wemight catch them for like tomorrow.
On another day.
(13:22):
I hope that.
That pretty much covers it for now andas much as I can in these few minutes.
Um, yeah, so like I said, I've got alot more in my affirming communication
for autistic children course examplesof how it can look, et cetera.
And I think what's really importantto call out as well is like, I don't
(13:45):
wanna, I don't wanna demonize anyone.
I don't want anyone to feellike you're doing it wrong.
Like I, I want you to recognize thatyou've been trained in a certain way.
You have, um, you know,you're within a context.
Your workplace or your experience,your training, your learning, and
this is what we're doing here.
We are changing the world.
The neurodiversity affirmingshift is happening and it's slow.
(14:08):
Sometimes it's slow going.
You are part of it.
You're a really important part of it, butI need you to be gentle with yourself.
So noticing that anything you'redoing or you have done that I'm
saying this isn't best practice.
This isn't actually what is genuinely goodfor the wellbeing of the autistic child.
Be gentle with yourself andrecognize there is a shift to be
made, and it takes time and ittakes, uh, humility to say, okay.
(14:32):
I need to change.
I need to do something different.
But don't dwell in the, oh gosh,oh my gosh, I've done it badly.
No, no, no.
Don't just set that aside and stepforward into a more confident future.
And I would love, love, loveto help you as part of that.
I had a question about the course.
So my affirming communication for AutisticChildren course, it is a mouthful.
(14:53):
I almost jumble it up every time.
Um, they wrote, whendoes the course start?
My work is super busy right now, but Iwanna do it in halls in holidays, so.
Yeah, it's, uh, on demand.
So it's 12 months access.
So whenever you join, um, doors areopen until Friday, the 4th of April.
And if you happen to be listeningor watching this after the fact,
go and check out the course anyway.
(15:14):
'cause you'll see on the page whatthe update is like, um, if there's
a wait list, if there's, yeah, whenit's next open, things like that.
But anyway, if you are watchingaround now, end of March, start of.
April, did I say May?
I don't know.
Um, 4th of April is when it closesat the moment and you then get 12
months access, so you can watch itanytime in those next 12 months.
(15:34):
And let me check if this.
Um, oh yeah.
Thank you.
Yes, Michael, you like my talkingdown this so-called professional who?
Yeah, I had some uh, dramas.
You can see my last Instagram post,um, calling out people who are
just spouting incredibly ableiststuff out there on the internet.
I don't think I've missed any questions.
(15:55):
If I have, please send me a dm 'causeI really wanna come back to them.
I'm gonna be popping up hereevery day this week, so Monday.
Here we are done.
Um, I will pop up on Instagram liveon Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and Friday at Midday Sydney time forabout this long, 10 to 15 minutes.
You can DM me a question,you can email me a question.
I wanna help figure out, you know,just get into the nuance of all
(16:17):
this, what neurodiversity affirmingpractice looks like when we are doing
speech therapy with autistic children.
And any questions.
If you do have questions about myaffirming communication for autistic
children course, I'll put your questionsforward anonymously so you can ask.
You know, if you feel it's a sillyquestion, I'm sure it's not many
others wanna ask the same thing.
So please do put that forward.
(16:37):
Um, I will see your name, but Iwon't say it aloud, but I will
say hi to you if you're here.
So thank you for joining me live.
That's awesome to see a bunch of you here.
And yet the recording is gonna goout on the podcast on Instagram.
I hope this has been helpful.
I'll catch you tomorrow.
Hello.
(00:00):
Welcome.
These Q and as, I'm gonnarun them all this week.
They're gonna be 10 to 15 minutes,so not a long time that you've gotta
sit there holding your phone out.
Um, and my whole idea with thiswas just a casual way for me
to hop on and answer a bunch ofquestions that have been coming in.
And I know there are more, I'mencouraging more questions.
Questions about how to supportautistic children in speech therapy
(00:24):
or speech pathology sessions.
I prefer therapy as.
Yeah, I like the wordtherapy more than pathology.
Seems more affirming and helpful.
Um, and the other kind of question I'll betalking about is questions about my course
affirming communication for autisticchildren, which is open right now.
Monday I'm talking and it closes on.
Friday this week.
So I've got a bunch of questionscoming in and I thought this might
(00:46):
be the most, um, effective way to,uh, yeah, just kind of help you
out and get you some clarification.
If you've been joining in on theEvolve your Affirming Practice podcast
series that is still available.
Um, so you can send a comment ora message if you don't have a link
to that and I can hook you up.
Um, if you've been watchingmy Turning Affirming webinar.
A lot of the questions I've gotalready, I've got a couple of
(01:08):
questions around play support.
That came in after that webinar.
So I thought today will kick off withthose questions, but I really encourage
you to share other questions in the chat.
If I can't get them to them today,I will come back to them, you know,
over the rest of the week as longas they're, you know, relevant.
And on this topic.
Just checking if I haven'tmissed anything here.
(01:29):
'cause it's just me.
I don't wanna miss anything.
Oh, you love my talk atNoah's art conference.
Yay.
Yay.
It was very special.
I gave a speech to an amazing, um,organization last week, and it was
yeah, a really, really special thing.
So thank you.
Thank you for being there.
And here.
Okay.
Play.
I talk a lot about the idea that allplay is okay, and also I talk a lot about
(01:54):
this idea that I don't believe we shouldhave play goals for anyone really, um,
or for autistic children especially.
So why, and this might be throwingsome people, which is why I get a lot
of questions following up on this.
The reason is because I see play asthe context for all the other stuff.
(02:14):
Kids learn best through playand autistic kids learn even.
Better through play.
They need play playfulness, connection,joy, engagement as the context for
learning even more than neurotypicalkids or non-autistic kids do.
I'm not saying it's not important foranyone, I'm just saying for autistic
kids, we need to really be thinkingthat play and genuine playfulness.
(02:37):
That is the context where learning,engagement and all the other
things happen have a sip of water.
And I'm gonna get my question up.
I've got my notes here with the questions.
I don't mi I hope I haven't missed any.
Hi, Julia.
See you there.
Yay.
Okay, this question, I actually thinkthis question came out of my, uh, play
(03:01):
conference talk, but it's the same topic.
It's exactly a perfect topic.
So again, I thought this is theperfect place to answer it 'cause
it's sitting there in my inbox.
Uh, so someone shared, do you have anyexamples of how to write play type goals?
Our team says they have to includesome type of play goals, so I wanted to
see other ways of addressing this now.
(03:21):
The first thing I'm gonna say is,can we question, um, this rule,
our team says that we have toinclude some type of play goal.
Like why, um, question.
It tr to understand the thinkingand the purpose behind that rule.
Why is that there ata service based level?
And perhaps then do some advocacyif that is tied up with these
(03:44):
ideas that we need to be, um.
And changing children's play, whichis what I'm trying to bust here.
That's what we're trying to shift.
So we're questioning that assumption,but okay, let's say it's there.
Maybe there's a really valid reason.
Um, maybe and for whatever reason we're,we are working within that structure.
So then I go to this idea, if we haveplay goals for children, I actually
(04:11):
believe that they should be adult goals.
Meaning the goal is.
It is not about the child.
The goal is, the goal is notabout changing the child's play.
The goal is not about thechild doing something in play.
'cause the moment we have prescriptivegoals like that, we are saying we
don't think the way the child plays isacceptable and we need to change it.
(04:34):
And that is what we are trying to shiftwith neurodiversity affirming approaches.
We are trying to take this idea that.
How somebody wants to play, even ifit looks different to our checklists
or to what we might have learned tolike the developmental trajectories
of how plays should look, which mightfit neurotypical kids doesn't have
to be followed for autistic kids.
(04:56):
And if an autistic child wants tocontinue to play by lining things up,
or they want to continue to play withsounds and just use their mouth to
make sounds, or they want to play byrunning up and tapping a wall all the
time, and that's how they wanna play.
That's okay.
There's always the caveat, and I'vegot a lot more about this in my
(05:16):
course affirming communication forautistic children in various podcast
episodes where I've talked about this.
Um, and yeah, so there's, there's a lotmore I go into it, but I, I will just call
that the nuance, like, we're not sayingthat a child can do absolutely anything
that want, so if there's actual harm inthe way that they naturally want to play.
Might hurt them, might hurtsomeone else, um, emotionally,
(05:37):
physically, it might damage property.
Then yes, there is a case to shiftthat, but we're still working within the
context of what is right for the child.
And rather than shift their play tolook neurotypical, we're trying to find
a medium that honors the way that theynaturally want to express themselves
and enjoy the world, while also makingsure that it's not causing actual harm.
(05:59):
But you know.
Um, these goals, like old school goals, Iknow they're still around about changing a
child's play, changing an autistic child'splay to look more normal or typical.
That's what causes harm.
That causes harm to autistic children.
So that there, let me justcheck where I have gone.
Where I haven't gone in my response.
(06:25):
Okay, so goals.
Look, let's say you've got to puta goal down about play for a child.
I really want this goal to saysomething like, for the child to
express their personal preferencesand self-advocate during play.
Uh, for example, choosing an activity,requesting for something to stop,
um, using any communication modewith modeling and with support.
(06:47):
Something along those lines.
So that is.
So, so key that we're not saying thechild needs to play in a certain way.
We're saying within the contextof play, the child can learn
and practice other skills.
Yes.
Oh, hi Jess.
And it's, yes, it is important.
Let the kids explore how they prefer to.
Hi.
Kay.
Nice to see you all here.
(07:08):
Yes.
Um, that's so.
It feels, it feels obvious, butI know I gotta keep saying it.
And then I know many of you, you get it,you kind of hear it and then you go, but
how does it fit the service that I'vealways done or the goals that I've got
all these templates in my reports thatsay I need to talk about the child's play
development stages and things like that.
Yeah, we're, we're doing alot of changing and shifting.
(07:32):
And so in my course affirmingCommunication for Autistic
Children, module two is whereI go into this a lot more.
We talk about communication,interaction, and play.
So there's a lot more examples and,um, you know, kind of see it in action.
I really encourage you, if you area speech therapist, to check it out.
I think it will work here.
I hope so.
Where you should, if you'reon Instagram with me now.
(07:53):
You should be able to comment ac, ac, andthen the link will head to your inbox.
If it doesn't, I'll find yourmessage later and send it to you.
Um, and look, I also mentioned,I think we need goals for
the grownups around a child.
I really wanna see these in kids' goalplans in as many settings as possible.
It's often missing like we might think.
We have an idea in mind, okay, we'regonna help the child achieve these goals.
(08:16):
And we have these like covert goals forgrownups that we kind of know in our head.
We wanna talk to the parent aboutthis, we wanna help them, um, help
the parent understand something.
We wanna help the teachersupport the child.
And too often those goalsare not written down.
I want adult goals to be writtendown in kids' goal plans, in their
reports, in their recommendations.
Something like, um.
(08:39):
Johnny's parent will learn to see the waythat Johnny loves to play and join Johnny
in that play when Johnny's open to it.
Something along those lines.
So I want to see.
That there are waysthat we're calling out.
We are changing theworld around the child.
We are making the changes in the grownupsaround the child that will help the
(09:03):
child feel more connected, feel moresupported, be able to communicate,
be able to learn better, all of that.
Um, ah, thank you.
That's such a cool question.
Um.
So, okay, you've askedhow was my play as a kid.
There's a photo I share alot and maybe I'll pop it up
today of my stories if I can.
Um, because it's soamazing that it exists.
It's a photo of me age three, sittingwith balloons that are not blown up.
(09:26):
Because balloons that are blown up, whilethey're beautiful, they're very scary.
'cause they might go boom.
And it's a real conflicting thing.
Um, so I'm sitting, I've made likea, an arc almost of like these
balloons around me, perfectly linedup, not in perfect chromatic order,
which is how I would do it now.
I still line things up.
I've got my nail polish, I've gotmy pens, they're all lined up.
That's how I still play now.
(09:46):
It's joyful, it'scalming, it's regulating.
Now just imagine.
That a grownup came in and told me That'snot how you play with balloons and took
a balloon and started to blow it up.
I, again, this conflicting thing, Iwould've loved it 'cause balloons blown up
are fun, but also it's freaking terrifyingbecause they will go pop at some point.
And I hate that.
I'm even my heart rate's raising now.
(10:08):
Um, you know, we do not haveto change how kids play.
So get really reflective.
Look at the goals thatyou've got written down.
Look at the structuresyou're working within.
And see where the change needs to be made.
Again, if you wanna learn more about it,I have so much more in my course, and so
I think you should be able to comment onInstagram, ac ac, and the link will head
over to you, um, so you can learn more.
(10:30):
But oh, and obviously if you're listeningon the podcast, it'll be in the show
notes and all that info as well.
So the second question thatI had come in about play.
It came off.
Yeah, it really bouncesnicely off this goal question.
So this was, something asked,actually two people were commenting
and asking, um, during my webinar.
(10:51):
So I did the turning affirmingwebinar for speech therapists.
We were busting a bunch of myths.
It's actually, the recordingis still available.
So if you are, depends when you'relistening before the 4th of April, 2025,
it'll be available to watch or listen to.
Um, send me a message if youneed help accessing that.
Now one of them said, thankyou for your amazing webinar.
(11:12):
Thank you.
I had fun doing it.
Uh, one of our lovely friends askedthe question, how do we write a
progress note after a play session?
And I commented.
So the other person then commented,uh, that the university always said
they needed a measurable goal andwe need to justify our decisions.
Um, so these two people sort ofhad this question going in the
chat and I said, that is awesome.
I'm gonna address it later.
So
(11:35):
this is the thing.
I think it again, comesback to what the goals are.
If we have goals that are writtenabout asking a child to change how
they play, then sure it follows that.
Our progress note is gonna be talkingabout how did the child play, did
it meet our expectations of whatwe think the play should look like?
But if we have better goals, if we havegoals that are all about communication,
(11:55):
connection, advocacy, self-advocacy,uh, changing the world around the child,
changing the knowledge of the peoplearound the child, if those are the
goals we have, having progress notes.
That fit those goalsjust flows from there.
So for example, um, you couldhave something like, you can
certainly write in your goals.
What did the child enjoy?
What kind of play did they enjoy?
(12:16):
So we're just commentingon what was the context?
What, you know, how did the engagement go?
We are just describing what didthey like to do, how did they play?
And take that as your moment tolook really deeply like what is
engaging and interesting for thechild, not just they played with
blocks that's not very informative.
What did they love doing with the blocks?
How did that shift?
How did that progress?
Did they allow you to join in?
(12:37):
Did they want you to join in?
And then you can go to talkingabout your other goals.
And it doesn't have to be about play.
It's then, you know, howdid the communication go?
Um, did they self advocate, uh, you know,whatever those other goals are, maybe
you have literacy goals and they're builtinto wherever that play context happens.
Maybe the literacy goals.
(12:57):
Are built within that, and then youjust comment on those literacy skills.
But you've already underlined,you know, this is in the context
of play, this specific kind ofplay that the child enjoyed.
I'm gonna just check back to thequestion if I've missed anything.
Um, also keep any questions coming.
I'll yeah.
Again, I might answer them now or wemight catch them for like tomorrow.
On another day.
(13:22):
I hope that.
That pretty much covers it for now andas much as I can in these few minutes.
Um, yeah, so like I said, I've got alot more in my affirming communication
for autistic children course examplesof how it can look, et cetera.
And I think what's really importantto call out as well is like, I don't
(13:45):
wanna, I don't wanna demonize anyone.
I don't want anyone to feellike you're doing it wrong.
Like I, I want you to recognize thatyou've been trained in a certain way.
You have, um, you know,you're within a context.
Your workplace or your experience,your training, your learning, and
this is what we're doing here.
We are changing the world.
The neurodiversity affirmingshift is happening and it's slow.
(14:08):
Sometimes it's slow going.
You are part of it.
You're a really important part of it, butI need you to be gentle with yourself.
So noticing that anything you'redoing or you have done that I'm
saying this isn't best practice.
This isn't actually what is genuinely goodfor the wellbeing of the autistic child.
Be gentle with yourself andrecognize there is a shift to be
made, and it takes time and ittakes, uh, humility to say, okay.
(14:32):
I need to change.
I need to do something different.
But don't dwell in the, oh gosh,oh my gosh, I've done it badly.
No, no, no.
Don't just set that aside and stepforward into a more confident future.
And I would love, love, loveto help you as part of that.
I had a question about the course.
So my affirming communication for AutisticChildren course, it is a mouthful.
(14:53):
I almost jumble it up every time.
Um, they wrote, whendoes the course start?
My work is super busy right now, but Iwanna do it in halls in holidays, so.
Yeah, it's, uh, on demand.
So it's 12 months access.
So whenever you join, um, doors areopen until Friday, the 4th of April.
And if you happen to be listeningor watching this after the fact,
go and check out the course anyway.
(15:14):
'cause you'll see on the page whatthe update is like, um, if there's
a wait list, if there's, yeah, whenit's next open, things like that.
But anyway, if you are watchingaround now, end of March, start of.
April, did I say May?
I don't know.
Um, 4th of April is when it closesat the moment and you then get 12
months access, so you can watch itanytime in those next 12 months.
(15:34):
And let me check if this.
Um, oh yeah.
Thank you.
Yes, Michael, you like my talkingdown this so-called professional who?
Yeah, I had some uh, dramas.
You can see my last Instagram post,um, calling out people who are
just spouting incredibly ableiststuff out there on the internet.
I don't think I've missed any questions.
(15:55):
If I have, please send me a dm 'causeI really wanna come back to them.
I'm gonna be popping up hereevery day this week, so Monday.
Here we are done.
Um, I will pop up on Instagram liveon Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and Friday at Midday Sydney time forabout this long, 10 to 15 minutes.
You can DM me a question,you can email me a question.
I wanna help figure out, you know,just get into the nuance of all
(16:17):
this, what neurodiversity affirmingpractice looks like when we are doing
speech therapy with autistic children.
And any questions.
If you do have questions about myaffirming communication for autistic
children course, I'll put your questionsforward anonymously so you can ask.
You know, if you feel it's a sillyquestion, I'm sure it's not many
others wanna ask the same thing.
So please do put that forward.
(16:37):
Um, I will see your name, but Iwon't say it aloud, but I will
say hi to you if you're here.
So thank you for joining me live.
That's awesome to see a bunch of you here.
And yet the recording is gonna goout on the podcast on Instagram.
I hope this has been helpful.
I'll catch you tomorrow.
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