February 12, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode, we’re unpacking some of the nuances behind behavioural strategies when supporting autistic children. I discuss how neurodiversity-affirming approaches can look in practice, focusing on connection over compliance and the need to find the deep reason behind a behaviour. I also touch on how behavioural approaches show up in our work and why it's crucial to think deeply about whether these approaches truly serve the best interests of the child.
Links and resources mentioned:
FREE CHEATSHEET Neurodiversity Affirming Approaches to Supporting Behaviour - Download here
Webinar: Affirming Approach to Understanding and Supporting Behaviour (Use code POD10 for 10% OFF) - Learn more here
Free podcast training for Speech Therapists: Evolve Your Affirming Practice - Register for free here
Course for Speech Therapists - Affirming Communication for Autistic Children - https://playlearnchat.com/acac-course/ Doors opening soon! Get on the waitlist now to get the best offer when we're open for registrations!
Podcast Link: https://pod.link/1625478932
Website: www.playlearnchat.com
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/play.learn.chat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the ExploringNeurodiversity Podcast for adults
who support Neurodivergent children.
Whether you're an allied healthprofessional, medical professional,
education professional or aparent of a Neurodivergent
child, you are welcome here.
This podcast is recorded on the Aboriginallands of the Gadigal and Bidjigal people.
I acknowledge the traditional ownerselders past and present, and I extend
(00:28):
my acknowledgement to any Aboriginalfirst nations people listening in.
I'm Adina from Play.
Learn.
Chat.
I'm an autistic ADHDer, a speechtherapist, professional educator
speaker, and I also supportNeurodivergent Business owners in
my other business, neurodivergentBusiness Coaching and Consulting.
I'm obsessed with creating a world whenNeurodivergent people are understood,
(00:48):
embraced, supported, and celebrated.
A world where we Neurodivergentpeople can understand ourselves and
thrive in a life aligned with ourindividual strengths, wants and needs.
On the Exploring NeurodiversityPodcast, you'll get my
perspectives and conversationswith my Neurodivergent friends.
All about how adults can best supportNeurodivergent children in our lives.
(01:08):
I bring a NeurodiversityAffirming approach and indeed a
human affirming approach to thesupport that we all provide for
Neurodivergent kids in our lives.
Let's dive in.
This is a crossover podcast episode.
I'm sharing it both on my ExploringNeurodiversity podcast and also on my
private podcast, Evolve Your AffirmingPractice, which is for speech therapists
who support autistic children.
(01:29):
It just so happens that the topicsI wanted to speak about this week
were basically the same for both,so I thought it would make sense
to share this with your ears.
If you're a speech therapist, go tothe link in the show notes and register
for the Evolve Your Affirming Practice.
Podcast training, which is free ifyou're not a speech therapist, I
hope that you'll stick around andlisten to, lots of episodes of the
(01:51):
Exploring Neurodiversity podcast.
Today we're unpacking some of thenuances behind behavioral strategies
when we're supporting autistic children.
Now, I wanted to keep these episodesquite short, so there's only so
much I can cover, there is muchmore that I teach in my Affirming
Communication for Autistic Childrencourse, which is for speech therapists.
P. S. if you're listening when this comesout on the 13th of February 2025, head
(02:13):
to the link in the show notes immediatelyto check it out because if you are on
the waitlist, you're going to get a veryfancy offer on the 14th of February 2025.
If you've missed that boat,no worries, go check it out.
You can hop on the waitlist or you canregister if it is open at the time.
For anyone who supports autistic children,I do have another webinar if the things
I'm sharing with you today feel like justthe tip of the iceberg and you want more
(02:37):
information and more ideas, check outmy webinar called Affirming Approach to
Understanding and Supporting Behaviour.
And you will get 10 percent off if youuse the code POD10, I also have a free
PDF handout for you, linked in the shownotes, and it's all about helping you
clarify what are affirming approaches tosupporting behavior and what are not..
So that is a free PDF handout and you'regoing to find the link in the show notes.
(02:59):
Let's get on with today's episode.
What I wanted to do was shed somelight on some really practical
things that might come up when you'reinteracting with an autistic child.
To help clarify.
What a neurodiversity affirmingapproach to supporting that
behavior might look like.
Either changing that behavioror not changing that behavior.
Let's just get clear where do behavioralapproaches typically show up in the
(03:23):
kind of therapies, supports, teachingthat we do with autistic children or
any children that we're working with?
Now, without judgement, these arejust kind of a list of how behavioural
approaches do show up in our work.
In things like ABA therapy, AppliedBehavioural Analysis Therapy, which, like
I did say no judgement, but I'm goingto say that is broadly seen as harmful
(03:43):
for autistic children most of the time.
there's more nuance, positive behaviorsupport, token reward systems, hand
over hand guidance, sticker charts,planned ignoring or extinction, now and
next boards where now you do the boringthing and next you do the fun thing.
specific therapies like principles ofmotor learning, articulation, fluency
therapy some of these approachesare very strongly behavioural.
(04:06):
Now that you're noticing wherebehavioural approaches show up in your
work, let's get clear on a few of thebig ideas that underpin what affirming
approaches to behaviour might look like.
One of the core principles isthat all communication is valid.
This is a key principle toneurodiversity affirming approaches.
We don't see speech, mouth words, asbetter than other forms of communication.
(04:31):
Yes, more people in theworld understand it.
And yes, it can be more easily accessiblefor some people to use mouth words.
But for a particular child in aparticular moment, if speech is not
easily usable for them, it's not theirbest method of communication, It is
completely non affirming to push forspeech over other forms of communication.
(04:53):
It's our job as a communication partnerto autistic children to be supporting
them in their communication in whateverway suits them best in that moment.
Your role as a speech therapistis to support their communication,
so there's many other ways thatyou'll be modeling, encouraging,
guiding, and giving opportunitiesfor them to use clear communication.
(05:14):
And again, it doesn't haveto be speech or mouth words.
But communication that will beunderstood more easily, so that they
can move through the world and bebetter understood by more people.
That is really, really important.
But speech is not the only way, it's notthe only goal, and it's not the best goal.
And if you're stuck thinking thatit is, you have so, so much work to
(05:34):
do, and I genuinely hope that you'llkeep learning, listening, and join
me in the Affirming Communicationfor Autistic Children course.
A second core principle around affirmingapproaches to behaviour is seeking to
find the deep reason behind a behaviourrather than treating behaviours based
on the immediate triggers before them.
It's way too simplistic andmisses so much deep, important
(05:56):
context if all we're looking at.
Is what happened justbefore that behavior.
You need to go much deeper to understandall the things that have been building up
for that child, all their fluctuations incapacity, all the different demands that
have been placed on them, all the thingsthat have been shifting and changing.
All the uncertainty, all the sensorychallenges, all the weird social
interactions that have gone on for themover the past day, week, month, year.
(06:20):
All of these things can contribute towhat we might see as challenging behavior.
It's a really important reframe tohelp us understand that behaviours
don't just come from nowhere.
It's not a child being naughty.
I absolutely hate that wordand I just think it's invalid.
Behaviours that we might deem challenging.
are happening for, almost always, manyreasons that are combining together
(06:42):
making it hard for a child to do whatwe would deem appropriate behaviour.
There's days and days of trainingwe could go through here, but I'm
going to just leave that idea there.
Another really big key idea thatwe need to keep in mind is that
neurodiversity affirming approachesprioritise connection, understanding,
relationship over compliance andSuppressing a child's true self.
(07:06):
And so, we have to talk about the nuance.
Are all behavioral approaches bad?
Are all behavioral approachesnot neurodiversity affirming?
No, absolutely not.
Life is complicated, humans arecomplicated, and the philosophical
ideas behind how we go aboutsupporting and teaching autistic
children it's complicated.
And that's why we're here,and I'm so glad you're here.
(07:26):
One of the biggest filters you can runthrough in your mind when you're wondering
is it okay for me to try and change thatbehavior or stop that behavior is why
does that behavior change need to happen?
Is it in the best interests of thechild if that behavior change happens?
Is it truly in their best interests?
Or is it in the interest of other peoplearound them where the child changing their
(07:49):
behavior to fit what the other people wantwill actually be harmful for the child?
It might leave them dysregulated,feeling unheard, unsupported.
It might lead them to mask allthe time thinking they can't show
their true self because they'vebeen told that's not acceptable.
So it's really important to bethinking about situations where it's
appropriate to work on shifting achild's behavior and to set boundaries
(08:12):
where a particular behavior is not okay.
Situations where there's a safety concernfor the child themselves or for others.
putting them at risk, puttingother people at risk of harm.
Property damage.
supporting safety and wellbeing, these are non negotiables.
That includes things likeself care skills, but they're
kind of negotiable in a way.
Find out what is hard for that child, if achild always is screaming and running off
(08:34):
when you try to brush their teeth, or whentheir parents try to brush their teeth.
Rather than forcing them to comply, maybethere are other ways to get that non
negotiable goal of oral hygiene done.
The end goal can feel nonnegotiable, but how you get
there could be very negotiable.
all of these supportive approachescome when you understand deeply
what is hard for the child.
(08:54):
Sometimes it's appropriate to usebehavioral strategies and change a
child's behavior if it reduces theirrisk of harm from external factors,
and this is especially important forpeople of colour, and it can be life
saving to teach, for example, a blackautistic child to stim more subtly in
certain situations, because for them,if they're stimming in a way that might
(09:16):
be natural to them out in the world,due to massive racism and prejudice.
They might be perceived asdangerous or harmful to others.
And that has led to injury, ithas led to death before, and it
is absolutely horrific, appalling.
I'd love to wave a wand and change,the world, but, it's slow going.
We have to acknowledge that.
Personal safety is really important here.
(09:36):
So, that's a little express train ridethrough some of the big ideas underpinning
what behavioural approaches are alignedwith neurodiversity affirming practice
and where you might kind of say, yep,we're going to change behaviour in
this way, that's appropriate, that'sfor a really good reason and where
we might say, actually, no, I, theadult, part of their environment,
I'm the one that needs to change.
(09:56):
So how does it look in practice?
Like in our therapy sessions or whenwe're supporting children directly?
I'm going to run through some goals,strategies, and situations that can come
up in our speech therapy sessions thatinvolve behaviour change or potentially
behavioural approaches and some of theconsiderations that you need to keep in
mind when you decide whether to keep doingthat approach or maybe how to shift it.
(10:22):
Let's take a goal like encouraging anautistic child to give us eye contact.
It's a traditional goal that I hopepeople are starting to leave behind
and not do anymore because it canbe really distressing, distracting,
difficult, meaningless, painful anautistic child to give eye contact.
(10:42):
Eye contact is not a necessarypart of communication.
I have so many more resources where Ishare a lot more deeply about this topic.
And I'll link in the show notesto my survey where I have lots of
responses from Autistic people.
who've shared theirexperiences of eye contact.
So this is one case where I wouldsuggest Prompting a child to change
their behavior or rewarding a child tochange their behavior so that they're
(11:04):
looking at you in your eyes while you'recommunicating with each other is in almost
all cases something you can leave behind.
It's not in the child's best interests.
It doesn't meet one of those keynon negotiable factors that can
sometimes make us decide to infact do that behavior change.
Another goal or part of a child'spresentation that we may prompt or praise,
(11:26):
whether it's conscious or unconsciouson our part, is trying to get a child to
sit still or have quiet hands, especiallyasking them to sit at a table and do
tabletop work, if for that child in thatmoment it doesn't fit what they need
from a sensory or attention perspective.
Stimming is a natural part ofself regulation and expression.
(11:47):
It can be
regulating, it can be helpful,it can even be joyful.
Praising or encouraging a childto, you know, stop tapping
their feet or to sit still or
whatever that stim is that you'retrying to get them to reduce.
That can lead to masking,suppressing, that stim can be
really, really harmful for the child.
It can be dysregulating, it can bedistracting, they can have all their
(12:10):
focus and attention on trying to havequiet hands or quiet feet and trying
to control their body in that way thatfeels so unnatural for them that they
then miss all of the connection, thelearning, the interaction that you're
supposedly having as your actual goal.
Many children and many autistic childrendo not need to be still to learn.
They do not need to be looking to learn.
(12:30):
And oftentimes, having movement,having some other activity, sitting
or lying in a comfortable wayfor that child not at a table,
that can be the most facilitativecontext for them to learn, connect.
And progress in other ways.
When it comes to certain strategiesthat we might embed within our sessions,
they may not be our main goals, butthey often form some of the ways that
(12:53):
we traditionally have been taught toand run our speech therapy sessions.
Many of these approaches arebehavioral approaches, and I want
you to understand these nuances.
That's the whole point of thisepisode, so we don't have to
throw them all out the window.
Each child, each moment, each sessionis an opportunity to think critically
about the goals you're teaching andthe way that you're teaching them.
(13:15):
A very standard practice isusing token reward systems.
I don't want to say that they're alwayswrong, always bad, always harmful.
But you need to thinkabout them very carefully.
Why you're using them, how you setthem up, and the child's response.
Ideally, whatever we do with children inour speech therapy sessions is something
that is intrinsically motivating to thechild, something that they genuinely
(13:38):
enjoy doing and participating in.
Sometimes, there are goodreasons to work on hard things,
we'll call them hard things,
and they may align with what a childreally wants for themselves, or a non
negotiable safety goal, for example.
Let's say you're working with an autisticchild who uses mouth words, they can speak
and a lot of people understand them andthey want to be able to pronounce their
(14:00):
own name better and one of the sounds intheir name is one of their tricky sounds.
The child has talked aboutwanting to say their name clearer.
It's really hard for them.
The goal is there for a good reason.
It's within reach, but it's stillboring to do the work to get there.
If the child likes and responds wellto token reward system, they like
stickers, they like the structure,they like to see how many are left.
(14:23):
And it's a fun, gamified approachto making something kind of boring
be a little bit more enjoyable.
Absolutely, still totally fineto use a token reward system.
If the token reward system isrewarding something that causes
the child to hide their true self,
mask their body and mind's real needs,
(14:43):
then the token reward system mayindeed motivate the child to do
what you're asking of them, butthere's much deeper consequences.
This can teach a child that what theythink their body is telling them is not
true because the trusted adults aroundthem, told them not to believe it.
The child can get more and moredisconnected from their own deep
beliefs, true tendencies, and needs.
(15:04):
And that can lead to a lifetimeof challenges, of disconnect
from their emotions, from theirpreferences, and can be a significant
contributor to complex PTSD.
Let's talk about thehumble now and next board.
This, again, is a nuanced thing, whetherit's an affirming approach to supporting
children, or it's not an affirmingapproach to supporting children.
(15:26):
It's not a black and white thing.
You need to use your judgment.
So, a typical now and next boardmight have, two steps, step
one, step two, now and next.
Similar to the token reward system, itcan be a way to get kids to do something
that they have to do, that they don'treally want to do, so that they're
then rewarded with something that theywant, or in many cases, something that
(15:48):
they actually need to feel regulated.
When a now and next board isused as a tool to help a child
understand what's happening, theyhave a sense of predictability.
It's used more descriptively to explainwhat's coming up next and even used in
a way that is collaborative, where thechild can help you create the plan.
That can be really, really affirming,and especially for autistic children,
(16:11):
who often need A clear understandingof what's happening, what to
expect, to feel okay and secure.
However, where now andnext boards can be harmful
is where the next thing, the reward,being withheld is something that the child
really needs to either feel regulated,to feel connected, to feel engaged.
(16:32):
When it comes to sensory supports, itmight look like telling the child they
have to sit and do the worksheet, andthen they can go on the swing, where
actually, if they go on the swing.
It will help them feel more regulated.
And then they will have morecapacity to do the worksheet.
Or in fact, why not bringthe worksheet onto the swing?
Or maybe, don't even dothe worksheet at all.
If you're using a child's interestas the reinforcer, let's take
(16:53):
Star Wars as the interest.
And you're withholding theirdeep interest in Star Wars.
All they wanted to do was talkabout Star Wars today, and you
put that at the end of the board.
Ensuring that they do your spellingworksheet first, and then they
can talk to you about Star Wars.
That is coercive, that is compliancebased therapy, and you don't
need that as a tool, most of thetime . You are a creative human
(17:16):
with the ability to connect the dotsbetween a therapeutic goal that you may
be supporting the child with, somethingthat's very well thought out, of
course, and connect that with somethingthat they're really interested with.
Not to force them to do the boringthing within the context of Star Wars.
But to give them the opportunity
to have their needs met, their deepburning desire to talk to you about
(17:37):
Star Wars, while also practicing realworld skills, like writing out the
character names in Star Wars as theypracticing literacy in that mode.
I have a whole section in my AffirmingCommunication for Autistic Children
course where I give lots more examplesand guide you through this process
of matching a goal with an interest.
Again, not in a coercive way tomanipulate the child, but in a genuine,
(18:01):
holistic, functional, relationshipbased way, where the child's intrinsic
motivation will be the main thing helpingthem participate in that with you.
So, that's a really fast pit stoptour on some really important ideas.
You can see how it'sdefinitely not black and white.
There's so much nuance whenit comes to thinking about
(18:22):
How we use behavioral strategieswith children, and especially
with autistic children.
But keep coming back to thatbigger, zoomed out question.
What is in the true bestinterests of the child?
And be ready to challenge assumptions.
Be ready for you to be theone doing the changing.
Be ready to support theteachers, the parents, the
other people around the child.
(18:43):
To change expectations ofwhat we're looking for.
And focus on the true heart of connectioncommunication and relationship building.
The idea underpinning all of thisneurodiversity affirming approaches
is simply to see the child as a whole.
interesting, valid human and respectthem for that and connect with
them and when you do that you'regoing to find that reward charts,
(19:05):
behavior charts, punishing behaviors,all of that is no longer needed.
Your job is to keep that childfeeling as regulated as possible,
as connected as possible, asunderstood and supported as possible.
And with that groundwork, you're goingto find a lot of progress happens
in communication, in connections,in learning, in participation, but
(19:25):
it has to start from a space ofdeep respect and connectedness.
Speech therapists, go and checkout my Affirming Communication for
Autistic Children course right now.
And for anyone, speech therapist ornot, if you are somebody who works as
a professional with autistic children,check out my Affirming Approach to
Understanding and Supporting Behaviourspeechies, if you are not yet signed up
(19:46):
for my Evolve Your Affirming Practicepodcast, the third episode is going
even deeper into a particular cornerof this behavioural question thinking
about where High Trial Speech orArticulation Therapy fits within the
Neurodiversity Affirming Practice picture.
The link is in the show notes.
It is a completely free training,again in podcast mode, so you can
(20:07):
keep listening as you go for a walk,look at some trees, do some learning,
go for a drive, whatever you needto do while you're learning with me.
Thanks so much for beinghere and I'll catch you soon.
Thank you so much for sharingthis space and time with me.
Thank you for being open tolearning and unlearning and to
listening to the perspectives andexperiences of Neurodivergent folks.
If you found this episode helpful,please share it with a friend, share a
(20:30):
screenshot on Instagram, pop a five starrating and a review in your favorite app.
And join me on Instagram and Facebook.
I'm @play.Learn.chat.
Have a spectacular day!
Welcome to the ExploringNeurodiversity Podcast for adults
who support Neurodivergent children.
Whether you're an allied healthprofessional, medical professional,
education professional or aparent of a Neurodivergent
child, you are welcome here.
This podcast is recorded on the Aboriginallands of the Gadigal and Bidjigal people.
I acknowledge the traditional ownerselders past and present, and I extend
(00:28):
my acknowledgement to any Aboriginalfirst nations people listening in.
I'm Adina from Play.
Learn.
Chat.
I'm an autistic ADHDer, a speechtherapist, professional educator
speaker, and I also supportNeurodivergent Business owners in
my other business, neurodivergentBusiness Coaching and Consulting.
I'm obsessed with creating a world whenNeurodivergent people are understood,
(00:48):
embraced, supported, and celebrated.
A world where we Neurodivergentpeople can understand ourselves and
thrive in a life aligned with ourindividual strengths, wants and needs.
On the Exploring NeurodiversityPodcast, you'll get my
perspectives and conversationswith my Neurodivergent friends.
All about how adults can best supportNeurodivergent children in our lives.
(01:08):
I bring a NeurodiversityAffirming approach and indeed a
human affirming approach to thesupport that we all provide for
Neurodivergent kids in our lives.
Let's dive in.
This is a crossover podcast episode.
I'm sharing it both on my ExploringNeurodiversity podcast and also on my
private podcast, Evolve Your AffirmingPractice, which is for speech therapists
who support autistic children.
(01:29):
It just so happens that the topicsI wanted to speak about this week
were basically the same for both,so I thought it would make sense
to share this with your ears.
If you're a speech therapist, go tothe link in the show notes and register
for the Evolve Your Affirming Practice.
Podcast training, which is free ifyou're not a speech therapist, I
hope that you'll stick around andlisten to, lots of episodes of the
(01:51):
Exploring Neurodiversity podcast.
Today we're unpacking some of thenuances behind behavioral strategies
when we're supporting autistic children.
Now, I wanted to keep these episodesquite short, so there's only so
much I can cover, there is muchmore that I teach in my Affirming
Communication for Autistic Childrencourse, which is for speech therapists.
P. S. if you're listening when this comesout on the 13th of February 2025, head
(02:13):
to the link in the show notes immediatelyto check it out because if you are on
the waitlist, you're going to get a veryfancy offer on the 14th of February 2025.
If you've missed that boat,no worries, go check it out.
You can hop on the waitlist or you canregister if it is open at the time.
For anyone who supports autistic children,I do have another webinar if the things
I'm sharing with you today feel like justthe tip of the iceberg and you want more
(02:37):
information and more ideas, check outmy webinar called Affirming Approach to
Understanding and Supporting Behaviour.
And you will get 10 percent off if youuse the code POD10, I also have a free
PDF handout for you, linked in the shownotes, and it's all about helping you
clarify what are affirming approaches tosupporting behavior and what are not..
So that is a free PDF handout and you'regoing to find the link in the show notes.
(02:59):
Let's get on with today's episode.
What I wanted to do was shed somelight on some really practical
things that might come up when you'reinteracting with an autistic child.
To help clarify.
What a neurodiversity affirmingapproach to supporting that
behavior might look like.
Either changing that behavioror not changing that behavior.
Let's just get clear where do behavioralapproaches typically show up in the
(03:23):
kind of therapies, supports, teachingthat we do with autistic children or
any children that we're working with?
Now, without judgement, these arejust kind of a list of how behavioural
approaches do show up in our work.
In things like ABA therapy, AppliedBehavioural Analysis Therapy, which, like
I did say no judgement, but I'm goingto say that is broadly seen as harmful
(03:43):
for autistic children most of the time.
there's more nuance, positive behaviorsupport, token reward systems, hand
over hand guidance, sticker charts,planned ignoring or extinction, now and
next boards where now you do the boringthing and next you do the fun thing.
specific therapies like principles ofmotor learning, articulation, fluency
therapy some of these approachesare very strongly behavioural.
(04:06):
Now that you're noticing wherebehavioural approaches show up in your
work, let's get clear on a few of thebig ideas that underpin what affirming
approaches to behaviour might look like.
One of the core principles isthat all communication is valid.
This is a key principle toneurodiversity affirming approaches.
We don't see speech, mouth words, asbetter than other forms of communication.
(04:31):
Yes, more people in theworld understand it.
And yes, it can be more easily accessiblefor some people to use mouth words.
But for a particular child in aparticular moment, if speech is not
easily usable for them, it's not theirbest method of communication, It is
completely non affirming to push forspeech over other forms of communication.
(04:53):
It's our job as a communication partnerto autistic children to be supporting
them in their communication in whateverway suits them best in that moment.
Your role as a speech therapistis to support their communication,
so there's many other ways thatyou'll be modeling, encouraging,
guiding, and giving opportunitiesfor them to use clear communication.
(05:14):
And again, it doesn't haveto be speech or mouth words.
But communication that will beunderstood more easily, so that they
can move through the world and bebetter understood by more people.
That is really, really important.
But speech is not the only way, it's notthe only goal, and it's not the best goal.
And if you're stuck thinking thatit is, you have so, so much work to
(05:34):
do, and I genuinely hope that you'llkeep learning, listening, and join
me in the Affirming Communicationfor Autistic Children course.
A second core principle around affirmingapproaches to behaviour is seeking to
find the deep reason behind a behaviourrather than treating behaviours based
on the immediate triggers before them.
It's way too simplistic andmisses so much deep, important
(05:56):
context if all we're looking at.
Is what happened justbefore that behavior.
You need to go much deeper to understandall the things that have been building up
for that child, all their fluctuations incapacity, all the different demands that
have been placed on them, all the thingsthat have been shifting and changing.
All the uncertainty, all the sensorychallenges, all the weird social
interactions that have gone on for themover the past day, week, month, year.
(06:20):
All of these things can contribute towhat we might see as challenging behavior.
It's a really important reframe tohelp us understand that behaviours
don't just come from nowhere.
It's not a child being naughty.
I absolutely hate that wordand I just think it's invalid.
Behaviours that we might deem challenging.
are happening for, almost always, manyreasons that are combining together
(06:42):
making it hard for a child to do whatwe would deem appropriate behaviour.
There's days and days of trainingwe could go through here, but I'm
going to just leave that idea there.
Another really big key idea thatwe need to keep in mind is that
neurodiversity affirming approachesprioritise connection, understanding,
relationship over compliance andSuppressing a child's true self.
(07:06):
And so, we have to talk about the nuance.
Are all behavioral approaches bad?
Are all behavioral approachesnot neurodiversity affirming?
No, absolutely not.
Life is complicated, humans arecomplicated, and the philosophical
ideas behind how we go aboutsupporting and teaching autistic
children it's complicated.
And that's why we're here,and I'm so glad you're here.
(07:26):
One of the biggest filters you can runthrough in your mind when you're wondering
is it okay for me to try and change thatbehavior or stop that behavior is why
does that behavior change need to happen?
Is it in the best interests of thechild if that behavior change happens?
Is it truly in their best interests?
Or is it in the interest of other peoplearound them where the child changing their
(07:49):
behavior to fit what the other people wantwill actually be harmful for the child?
It might leave them dysregulated,feeling unheard, unsupported.
It might lead them to mask allthe time thinking they can't show
their true self because they'vebeen told that's not acceptable.
So it's really important to bethinking about situations where it's
appropriate to work on shifting achild's behavior and to set boundaries
(08:12):
where a particular behavior is not okay.
Situations where there's a safety concernfor the child themselves or for others.
putting them at risk, puttingother people at risk of harm.
Property damage.
supporting safety and wellbeing, these are non negotiables.
That includes things likeself care skills, but they're
kind of negotiable in a way.
Find out what is hard for that child, if achild always is screaming and running off
(08:34):
when you try to brush their teeth, or whentheir parents try to brush their teeth.
Rather than forcing them to comply, maybethere are other ways to get that non
negotiable goal of oral hygiene done.
The end goal can feel nonnegotiable, but how you get
there could be very negotiable.
all of these supportive approachescome when you understand deeply
what is hard for the child.
(08:54):
Sometimes it's appropriate to usebehavioral strategies and change a
child's behavior if it reduces theirrisk of harm from external factors,
and this is especially important forpeople of colour, and it can be life
saving to teach, for example, a blackautistic child to stim more subtly in
certain situations, because for them,if they're stimming in a way that might
(09:16):
be natural to them out in the world,due to massive racism and prejudice.
They might be perceived asdangerous or harmful to others.
And that has led to injury, ithas led to death before, and it
is absolutely horrific, appalling.
I'd love to wave a wand and change,the world, but, it's slow going.
We have to acknowledge that.
Personal safety is really important here.
(09:36):
So, that's a little express train ridethrough some of the big ideas underpinning
what behavioural approaches are alignedwith neurodiversity affirming practice
and where you might kind of say, yep,we're going to change behaviour in
this way, that's appropriate, that'sfor a really good reason and where
we might say, actually, no, I, theadult, part of their environment,
I'm the one that needs to change.
(09:56):
So how does it look in practice?
Like in our therapy sessions or whenwe're supporting children directly?
I'm going to run through some goals,strategies, and situations that can come
up in our speech therapy sessions thatinvolve behaviour change or potentially
behavioural approaches and some of theconsiderations that you need to keep in
mind when you decide whether to keep doingthat approach or maybe how to shift it.
(10:22):
Let's take a goal like encouraging anautistic child to give us eye contact.
It's a traditional goal that I hopepeople are starting to leave behind
and not do anymore because it canbe really distressing, distracting,
difficult, meaningless, painful anautistic child to give eye contact.
(10:42):
Eye contact is not a necessarypart of communication.
I have so many more resources where Ishare a lot more deeply about this topic.
And I'll link in the show notesto my survey where I have lots of
responses from Autistic people.
who've shared theirexperiences of eye contact.
So this is one case where I wouldsuggest Prompting a child to change
their behavior or rewarding a child tochange their behavior so that they're
(11:04):
looking at you in your eyes while you'recommunicating with each other is in almost
all cases something you can leave behind.
It's not in the child's best interests.
It doesn't meet one of those keynon negotiable factors that can
sometimes make us decide to infact do that behavior change.
Another goal or part of a child'spresentation that we may prompt or praise,
(11:26):
whether it's conscious or unconsciouson our part, is trying to get a child to
sit still or have quiet hands, especiallyasking them to sit at a table and do
tabletop work, if for that child in thatmoment it doesn't fit what they need
from a sensory or attention perspective.
Stimming is a natural part ofself regulation and expression.
(11:47):
It can be
regulating, it can be helpful,it can even be joyful.
Praising or encouraging a childto, you know, stop tapping
their feet or to sit still or
whatever that stim is that you'retrying to get them to reduce.
That can lead to masking,suppressing, that stim can be
really, really harmful for the child.
It can be dysregulating, it can bedistracting, they can have all their
(12:10):
focus and attention on trying to havequiet hands or quiet feet and trying
to control their body in that way thatfeels so unnatural for them that they
then miss all of the connection, thelearning, the interaction that you're
supposedly having as your actual goal.
Many children and many autistic childrendo not need to be still to learn.
They do not need to be looking to learn.
(12:30):
And oftentimes, having movement,having some other activity, sitting
or lying in a comfortable wayfor that child not at a table,
that can be the most facilitativecontext for them to learn, connect.
And progress in other ways.
When it comes to certain strategiesthat we might embed within our sessions,
they may not be our main goals, butthey often form some of the ways that
(12:53):
we traditionally have been taught toand run our speech therapy sessions.
Many of these approaches arebehavioral approaches, and I want
you to understand these nuances.
That's the whole point of thisepisode, so we don't have to
throw them all out the window.
Each child, each moment, each sessionis an opportunity to think critically
about the goals you're teaching andthe way that you're teaching them.
(13:15):
A very standard practice isusing token reward systems.
I don't want to say that they're alwayswrong, always bad, always harmful.
But you need to thinkabout them very carefully.
Why you're using them, how you setthem up, and the child's response.
Ideally, whatever we do with children inour speech therapy sessions is something
that is intrinsically motivating to thechild, something that they genuinely
(13:38):
enjoy doing and participating in.
Sometimes, there are goodreasons to work on hard things,
we'll call them hard things,
and they may align with what a childreally wants for themselves, or a non
negotiable safety goal, for example.
Let's say you're working with an autisticchild who uses mouth words, they can speak
and a lot of people understand them andthey want to be able to pronounce their
(14:00):
own name better and one of the sounds intheir name is one of their tricky sounds.
The child has talked aboutwanting to say their name clearer.
It's really hard for them.
The goal is there for a good reason.
It's within reach, but it's stillboring to do the work to get there.
If the child likes and responds wellto token reward system, they like
stickers, they like the structure,they like to see how many are left.
(14:23):
And it's a fun, gamified approachto making something kind of boring
be a little bit more enjoyable.
Absolutely, still totally fineto use a token reward system.
If the token reward system isrewarding something that causes
the child to hide their true self,
mask their body and mind's real needs,
(14:43):
then the token reward system mayindeed motivate the child to do
what you're asking of them, butthere's much deeper consequences.
This can teach a child that what theythink their body is telling them is not
true because the trusted adults aroundthem, told them not to believe it.
The child can get more and moredisconnected from their own deep
beliefs, true tendencies, and needs.
(15:04):
And that can lead to a lifetimeof challenges, of disconnect
from their emotions, from theirpreferences, and can be a significant
contributor to complex PTSD.
Let's talk about thehumble now and next board.
This, again, is a nuanced thing, whetherit's an affirming approach to supporting
children, or it's not an affirmingapproach to supporting children.
(15:26):
It's not a black and white thing.
You need to use your judgment.
So, a typical now and next boardmight have, two steps, step
one, step two, now and next.
Similar to the token reward system, itcan be a way to get kids to do something
that they have to do, that they don'treally want to do, so that they're
then rewarded with something that theywant, or in many cases, something that
(15:48):
they actually need to feel regulated.
When a now and next board isused as a tool to help a child
understand what's happening, theyhave a sense of predictability.
It's used more descriptively to explainwhat's coming up next and even used in
a way that is collaborative, where thechild can help you create the plan.
That can be really, really affirming,and especially for autistic children,
(16:11):
who often need A clear understandingof what's happening, what to
expect, to feel okay and secure.
However, where now andnext boards can be harmful
is where the next thing, the reward,being withheld is something that the child
really needs to either feel regulated,to feel connected, to feel engaged.
(16:32):
When it comes to sensory supports, itmight look like telling the child they
have to sit and do the worksheet, andthen they can go on the swing, where
actually, if they go on the swing.
It will help them feel more regulated.
And then they will have morecapacity to do the worksheet.
Or in fact, why not bringthe worksheet onto the swing?
Or maybe, don't even dothe worksheet at all.
If you're using a child's interestas the reinforcer, let's take
(16:53):
Star Wars as the interest.
And you're withholding theirdeep interest in Star Wars.
All they wanted to do was talkabout Star Wars today, and you
put that at the end of the board.
Ensuring that they do your spellingworksheet first, and then they
can talk to you about Star Wars.
That is coercive, that is compliancebased therapy, and you don't
need that as a tool, most of thetime . You are a creative human
(17:16):
with the ability to connect the dotsbetween a therapeutic goal that you may
be supporting the child with, somethingthat's very well thought out, of
course, and connect that with somethingthat they're really interested with.
Not to force them to do the boringthing within the context of Star Wars.
But to give them the opportunity
to have their needs met, their deepburning desire to talk to you about
(17:37):
Star Wars, while also practicing realworld skills, like writing out the
character names in Star Wars as theypracticing literacy in that mode.
I have a whole section in my AffirmingCommunication for Autistic Children
course where I give lots more examplesand guide you through this process
of matching a goal with an interest.
Again, not in a coercive way tomanipulate the child, but in a genuine,
(18:01):
holistic, functional, relationshipbased way, where the child's intrinsic
motivation will be the main thing helpingthem participate in that with you.
So, that's a really fast pit stoptour on some really important ideas.
You can see how it'sdefinitely not black and white.
There's so much nuance whenit comes to thinking about
(18:22):
How we use behavioral strategieswith children, and especially
with autistic children.
But keep coming back to thatbigger, zoomed out question.
What is in the true bestinterests of the child?
And be ready to challenge assumptions.
Be ready for you to be theone doing the changing.
Be ready to support theteachers, the parents, the
other people around the child.
(18:43):
To change expectations ofwhat we're looking for.
And focus on the true heart of connectioncommunication and relationship building.
The idea underpinning all of thisneurodiversity affirming approaches
is simply to see the child as a whole.
interesting, valid human and respectthem for that and connect with
them and when you do that you'regoing to find that reward charts,
(19:05):
behavior charts, punishing behaviors,all of that is no longer needed.
Your job is to keep that childfeeling as regulated as possible,
as connected as possible, asunderstood and supported as possible.
And with that groundwork, you're goingto find a lot of progress happens
in communication, in connections,in learning, in participation, but
(19:25):
it has to start from a space ofdeep respect and connectedness.
Speech therapists, go and checkout my Affirming Communication for
Autistic Children course right now.
And for anyone, speech therapist ornot, if you are somebody who works as
a professional with autistic children,check out my Affirming Approach to
Understanding and Supporting Behaviourspeechies, if you are not yet signed up
(19:46):
for my Evolve Your Affirming Practicepodcast, the third episode is going
even deeper into a particular cornerof this behavioural question thinking
about where High Trial Speech orArticulation Therapy fits within the
Neurodiversity Affirming Practice picture.
The link is in the show notes.
It is a completely free training,again in podcast mode, so you can
(20:07):
keep listening as you go for a walk,look at some trees, do some learning,
go for a drive, whatever you needto do while you're learning with me.
Thanks so much for beinghere and I'll catch you soon.
Thank you so much for sharingthis space and time with me.
Thank you for being open tolearning and unlearning and to
listening to the perspectives andexperiences of Neurodivergent folks.
If you found this episode helpful,please share it with a friend, share a
(20:30):
screenshot on Instagram, pop a five starrating and a review in your favorite app.
And join me on Instagram and Facebook.
I'm @play.Learn.chat.
Have a spectacular day!
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