September 8, 2025 • 17 mins
Government-promoted resources aren’t always safe or supportive. In this episode, I take you inside the Autistics Guide to Adulthood, a resource promoted by NDIS, and show you why it misses the mark and what to look for instead.
“Just because something has a big shiny seal of approval from a big government body, it may or may not actually be a quality resource.” – Adina Levy
In this episode I cover:
• Why the Autistics Guide to Adulthood resource, funded and promoted by NDIS, is outdated and harmful in key ways
• How to spot when a resource pushes masking, compliance, and neurotypical norms rather than affirming autistic communication and self-expression
• What to look for in genuinely neurodiversity affirming resources that support autistic people to thrive as themselves
Links & Resources mentioned
• Embracing You Course – by Stephanie Robertson, OT, Autistic adult and many other things too! A fabulouly affirming resource for neurodivergent adults – https://www.sgroccupationaltherapy.com/embracing-you-course
• Grab my Free Checklist: Neurodiversity Affirming Social Support Approaches for Autistic Children – practical guide to evaluate supports that are and aren't ND affirming – https://playlearnchat.kit.com/1fcf4c5759
• Neurodiversity Affirming Practice Learning Hub Bundle – discounted professional training bundle for those who support neurodivergent children. Already discounted, plus get an extra 10% off with the code POD10 – https://playlearnchat.com/learning-hub/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome to the ExploringNeurodiversity Podcast for adults
who support Neurodivergent children.
I'm Adina from Play.
Learn.
Chat.
I'm an autistic ADHDer, a speechtherapist, professional educator,
speaker, and I also supportNeurodivergent Business owners in
my other business, NeurodivergentBusiness Coaching and Consulting.
I'm obsessed with creating a worldwhen Neurodivergent people are
(00:29):
understood, , embraced, supported, andcan thrive in a life aligned with our
individual strengths, wants and needs.
I bring a NeurodiversityAffirming approach and indeed a
human affirming approach to thesupport that we all provide for
Neurodivergent kids in our lives.
This podcast is recorded on the Aboriginallands of the Gadigal and Bidjigal people.
(00:50):
I'm going to be unpacking theAutistics Guide to Adulthood, which
is a free online resource thatwas recently promoted by NDIS.
So here's the background about theresource, and I will say when I first
looked at it, and I recorded most ofwhat you're gonna hear in this podcast
on my Instagram stories, it actuallyconfused me because of the way that
NDIS shared the link to the resource.
(01:13):
I mistakenly thought itnDIS created resource.
And that in itself is problematic.
So I did clarify that in mystories as I figured out more
details about who was behind it.
And so here it is.
So it was created by AutismSouth Australia in 2019.
So already as I record this at sixyears old, and that is important.
It needs an update.
(01:35):
It was backed by funding from theILC program, which is the information
linkages and capacity building fundingstream within NDIS that looks to
promote community resources ratherthan, you know, direct supports.
So it's not a directNDIS created resource.
It is however endorsed andfunded by an arm of NDIS.
(01:55):
So now we've got thebackground that's clarified.
Here's the problem.
When something comes wrapped in agovernment endorsed seal and stamp
and it looks nice and polished,
or when it's from a big organization.
It might be good and it might not be.
And by good I mean neurodiversityaffirming, human affirming, genuinely
(02:15):
supportive in what it shares.
So here's the question.
Does the Autistic guide to adulthoodactually promote and share useful
affirming information for autistic adults?
Maybe we are gonna find out.
What I wanna demonstrate with thispodcast episode, and with everything I
was sharing on Instagram last week asI was digging through the guide, I want
(02:36):
you to be a critical thinker of anythingthat comes across your social media.
Anything that comes across yourdesk, your email, whatever you
receive, even if it's from me.
You need to have a critical mindset.
Just because something has a bigshiny seal of approval from a big
government body, it may or may notactually be a quality resource, and this
(03:00):
critical thinking is not always easy.
What's not?
It?
It simply isn't.
It takes a deep understanding.
Of what neurodiversity affirmingapproaches are, and it takes a deep
knowing and listening to a varietyof diverse autistic perspectives to
understand what is actually gonna help us.
So as you come across any particularresource or idea or strategy or
(03:22):
program, you need to step back and askwho created it, when was it created?
What are the values that it reflects?
Were people with diverse lived experienceinvolved in creating this resource?
Does it honor genuine autisticcommunication and self-expression?
In ways that show up differentlyfor different people, does it push
(03:43):
masking and compliance and squashus down and try to make us fit
into little neurotypical boxes?
So what I'm gonna sharewith you shortly is.
A slightly edited version of what Iput on my Instagram stories as I was
digging through the communication moduleof the Autistics Guide to Adulthood.
I'm just gonna go out and sayit like, I'm not gonna make
(04:03):
it a click hang it to the end.
I don't recommend this.
I don't recommend this resource, but Iwant you to hear my process, my thought
process through it, and I won't say it'sall bad, and it's also not all good.
I am gonna share with you where itfalls short of neurodiversity affirming
approaches and how it can be harmful,and some ideas for how the topics covered
could be shared in a more affirming way.
(04:25):
Because it's not just about me gettingenraged about a workbook that has typos
and really bad ideas and graphics.
I do get a little bit excitable.
I, I don't know if it's enraged.
It was a little Friday afternoon vibe.
I want you to see this is whathappens when systemic government
funded resources that are put upon a pedestal continue to reinforce
(04:46):
outdated non-affirmative approaches.
It's too easy to look at theseresources and think, oh, well, you know,
they're official so they must be good.
No.
So come with me on a journey.
We are going to dive into the AutisticsGuide to Adulthood communication module,
and I'll share some of my thoughts andat the end I'll come back full circle
and tell you more about how else I couldhelp you develop your critical thinking
(05:10):
and your neurodiversity affirmingskills and knowledge and confidence
to really understand what is and what.
Isn't neurodiversity affirming and youknow, it's not necessarily that simple.
It, it's a process of learning.
let's dive into the guide.
NDIS has promoted the AutisticsGuide to Adulthood resource free.
I am, I'll be honest, not hopeful.
(05:30):
I'm curious though.
Let's, let's go curious.
So I've signed up and I'mgonna see what it's all about.
The first thing I'm gonna callout is so I'm a course creator.
And I know about platforms andusability, and I also experience
life as an autistic adult.
Many of us take things veryliterally and don't, go well with new
(05:54):
things or confusing things here.
If you go to skills in this,nationally endorsed funded program.
There's these skills, five pages of them.
I'm gonna say that's probably a hundred.
And it's confusing.
So if I go to compliance awareness,I'm like, what is that doing in
a course for autistic adults?
(06:14):
I think it's just like a standardthing that came with the template
or something, and you go to externalresources and there's all these
like, Google Link Very confusing.
So that's thrown me off.
Attention to detail.
Ooh, interesting.
Attention to detail.
Enables professionals tometiculously examine information
blah, blah, blah, blah.
What's going on though?
Like, I don't understand what thiswhole section is and all these
(06:35):
Google things, so that's thrown me.
I'll just leave that thought there.
These are the modules available, so we'vegot romantic relationships, communication,
physical health, self-advocacy, education,entertainment, recreation and leisure,
friendship, living independently,employment and mental health.
That's a decent start.
Seems okay.
I'm okay with these.
I decided to go straight into thecommunication module because that
(06:57):
is one of my areas of expertise.
So let's have a look.
Here's the communication workbook.
Look, I'm not gonna say it's allterrible, but it's not great.
Here's an example ofsomething that is terrible.
I haven't watched, the modulesthat go along with it, but
according to the workbook, it'sincredibly prescriptive about what.
Facial expressions are and mean.
Without acknowledging the fact thatmany people have different expressions,
(07:20):
many people may hide or not be ableto show their expressions in these
expected ways or in these ways.
And by showing the expressionsand body language in such a. One
dimensional way, like this is bored.
This is open to a conversation.
It's incredibly unaffirming.
It's incredibly unhelpful.
All it's going to do is reinforceneurotypical norms and reinforce the
(07:44):
fact that autistic people are supposedto be looking for only a very narrow band
of, what is sad and being very literalabout, looking for that particular facial
expression , maybe the video modules aredifferent, but there doesn't seem to be
wiggle room for nuance or difference.
This page here on big emotions screamsto me that it's promoting, masking.
(08:09):
So what it's saying, reflectionactivity, big emotions.
And it's got a few examples.
Happy, someone laughing,jumping around and yelling.
Sad, someone sobbing loudly,angry, someone screaming,
yelling, and threatening others.
Excited someone jumpingup and down on tables.
Loving two people passionatelykissing each other.
Choose a big emotion scenario fromthe above list and write down how
you would feel if you saw someonedoing this in public in front of you.
(08:31):
You may also like to write downan alternative way a person
could show their big emotion.
Again, I haven't gone to the module thatI assume goes along with this, so maybe
there's more nuance and maybe it's handledvery sensitively To me, this workbook
page is saying that if somebody expressestheir big emotions in these ways, for
example, the autistic person completingthis course, this is shaming them, trying
(08:52):
to direct them to recognize that thatmay be wrong or may offend other people.
All of this so far has been aboutthe autistic person changing to
accommodate other people rather thanother people learning to understand
the autistic person or the autisticperson understanding themself more and
understanding that their different wayof expressing things is valid for them.
(09:15):
So the more in depthcontent is not better.
Like I kind of hoped it might've been.
This section on smalltalk is pretty rough.
Apparently most people don't reallylike small talk, so that's kind of okay.
In a way, it sort of validatesthe fact that small talk might
be not fun for many people.
I don't know if that's true,that most people don't like it.
I would say many autistic, maybemost autistic people don't like it.
(09:37):
But what's not here?
Anywhere in the top, 90% of the pageis anything about it being okay to
have a different preference for howto communicate It's got instructions
for how to make small talk, Nevermindthe fact that you may not like it.
Do it anyway.
And here's how you do it.
And oh, a last little afterthought.
says "small talk and autism.
Many autistics feel as though talkingabout things they do not connect with
(10:00):
can feel unnatural and appear forced.
This can be very draining on your energy.
If you feel this way, just takefrom this section what helps
you and leave what does not.
Remember.
Everyone is different and thatis okay." Now that statement
and information is helpful.
It should not be an afterthought.
At minimum, it should be moved to thevery top to outline and preface this
whole section, but I actually don'tthink that's anywhere near enough.
(10:22):
What needs to be shared.
So like what am I hoping for is anunderstanding that there are different
ways of communicating that some peopledo small talk, some don't, and there
might be times to do it, and theremight be times to advocate for yourself.
That you don't wanna do smalltalk and that it's okay not to.
And maybe there are somestrategies that we can teach how
(10:44):
people can not do small talk.
Maybe there are energy managementstrategies that are outlined very
clearly that go around this idea.
It's good that it's calling out.
The fact that small talk isyou know, not for everyone.
But oh, this is missingthe mark in so many ways.
Let's have a look at this section.
Having interests you're passionate about.
I had a sinking feeling thatthis would be problematic.
(11:06):
And yeah, so it's a mix.
Okay, I'll give credit.
So it talks about the fact that youcan have hobbies, special interests,
passions, and that can be good.
Then it kind of heads into cautious mode.
Things like spelling out thatyou might have to consider if
something is an unusual interest.
That is such a subjective thing.
What I do appreciate is thatit talks about finding other
(11:29):
people who show your interests.
Like that's good.
Good.
Hooray.
I was not looking forward to readingthis over talking While having
passions and interests is important,sometimes we're really interested in.
And passionate about something.
It can be easy to lose track oftime and talk too much about it.
"Too much", " over- talking".
These are judgment phrases.
They are neurotypical judgments that weare now placing on the autistic adults.
(11:51):
Reading this to, again, shameus into making us feel that we
are wrong and the way that wewanna think, process and share.
Is the problem.
Now, the double empathy problemtells us that it goes two ways.
Non-autistic people need to understandthat autistic people have different
ways of connecting, and sometimes thatmeans skipping over small talk and
(12:12):
going straight into special interests.
Also.
I like straight talking.
It's a fairly common autistic feature.
I think it's really, really importantto spell it out to people and say
things like, "I don't have thebandwidth to chat about this right now."
They do call this out this is nice.
Sometimes someone may give us an obviousoutright cue to change the topic.
(12:33):
Okay.
I've had enough talking about this now.
That to me reads like a nice likeautistic phrase, which neurotypicals
may take that very harshly.
I would really like that because Idon't have to read between the lines.
Look, there's so much to communication.
There's so much about tone of voice andbody language and facial expressions
hedging comments and masking andyou know, it's very complicated.
(12:56):
This resource is completely missingthe mark by putting the full burden on
autistic people to do the changing andto do all the hiding, and to continue to
judge ourselves the way that society hastried to put on us for a very, very, very
long time, to judge ourselves that we areover talking, that we are the problem, and
that our natural tendency is the problem.
It's not.
(13:17):
Okay.
While I have so much more to say aboutthe Autistics Guide to Adulthood Resource,
promoted and paid for by NDIS, I'm goingto switch the positive for a moment.
I'm gonna share a wonderful example ofif you're an autistic adult, well, you
know, an autistic adult and you wannagive them a really affirming way of.
(13:37):
Learning about yourselfand how to navigate life.
I strongly recommend my Good FriendSteph's Embracing You course.
I'm gonna link to it because she's a gem.
Everything she teaches isabsolutely about dismantling this
ableist, non neuro affirming.
Masking hiding shame-based approach,which the Autistics Guide to Adulthood
(14:00):
Resource seems to be promoting.
So there you have it.
That was my little tour insidethe Autistics Guide to Adulthood.
As I said, I don't endorse this.
I don't recommend this resource.
I do recommend that you findsupports resources and information
from neurodiversity affirmingautistic adults and children.
(14:21):
To really help you learn andunderstand the nuances around
neurodiversity affirming approaches.
So whether you're supportingautistic adults yourself, perhaps
whether you are supporting autisticchildren, the concepts are the same.
And I really hope that you will continueyour journey of learning and critical
thinking to help you on this path.
I have a free checklist,Neurodiversity Affirming Social Support
(14:44):
approaches for autistic Children.
All of the themes that we've talkedabout from the Autistic Guide to
Adulthood, these wouldn't passmost of the points of my checklist.
It's the same points.
How are we supporting people to havegenuine connection, to be genuinely
honored their true selves, to findconnection with other people who are
like-minded, who respect them for whothey are, perhaps share interests.
(15:07):
Enjoy each other's communication style.
Know, most of the time we're still human.
It doesn't always go smooth.
That's okay.
But we need to be pushing supports,therapies, strategies, resources
that allow autistic people tothrive in their autistic selves
rather than trying to change us tofit into that neuronormative box.
(15:27):
So keep going on yourcritical thinking journey.
Please don't just assume thatbecause something is officially
endorsed or promoted or veryshiny that it is best practice.
It might be, and it might not be.
You can grab my free checklist.
The Neurodiversity Affirming SocialSupport Approaches for Autistic
Children the link Is in the show notes.
And if you are ready for a deeper diveinto learning about neurodiversity
(15:49):
affirming practice, my neurodiversityaffirming Practice learning hub bundle
is already discounted at bundles togethermost of my key webinars and workshops.
that's for professionals whosupport Neurodivergent Children.
It is already discounted, so you canalso get an extra 10% off with the
code POD10 POD, and NUMERALS one zero.
(16:11):
All that info is in the show notes.
Don't feel that you have to remember it.
Thank you so much for joining me andfor choosing to think critically in
your journey to figuring out how youcan best support autistic people.
Thank you for being open tolearning and unlearning and to
listening to the perspectives andexperiences of Neurodivergent folks.
(16:34):
If you found this episode helpful,please share it with a friend, share a
screenshot on Instagram, pop a five starrating and a review in your favorite app.
And join me on Instagram and Facebook.
I'm @play.Learn.chat.
Have a beautiful day.
Welcome to the ExploringNeurodiversity Podcast for adults
who support Neurodivergent children.
I'm Adina from Play.
Learn.
Chat.
I'm an autistic ADHDer, a speechtherapist, professional educator,
speaker, and I also supportNeurodivergent Business owners in
my other business, NeurodivergentBusiness Coaching and Consulting.
I'm obsessed with creating a worldwhen Neurodivergent people are
(00:29):
understood, , embraced, supported, andcan thrive in a life aligned with our
individual strengths, wants and needs.
I bring a NeurodiversityAffirming approach and indeed a
human affirming approach to thesupport that we all provide for
Neurodivergent kids in our lives.
This podcast is recorded on the Aboriginallands of the Gadigal and Bidjigal people.
(00:50):
I'm going to be unpacking theAutistics Guide to Adulthood, which
is a free online resource thatwas recently promoted by NDIS.
So here's the background about theresource, and I will say when I first
looked at it, and I recorded most ofwhat you're gonna hear in this podcast
on my Instagram stories, it actuallyconfused me because of the way that
NDIS shared the link to the resource.
(01:13):
I mistakenly thought itnDIS created resource.
And that in itself is problematic.
So I did clarify that in mystories as I figured out more
details about who was behind it.
And so here it is.
So it was created by AutismSouth Australia in 2019.
So already as I record this at sixyears old, and that is important.
It needs an update.
(01:35):
It was backed by funding from theILC program, which is the information
linkages and capacity building fundingstream within NDIS that looks to
promote community resources ratherthan, you know, direct supports.
So it's not a directNDIS created resource.
It is however endorsed andfunded by an arm of NDIS.
(01:55):
So now we've got thebackground that's clarified.
Here's the problem.
When something comes wrapped in agovernment endorsed seal and stamp
and it looks nice and polished,
or when it's from a big organization.
It might be good and it might not be.
And by good I mean neurodiversityaffirming, human affirming, genuinely
(02:15):
supportive in what it shares.
So here's the question.
Does the Autistic guide to adulthoodactually promote and share useful
affirming information for autistic adults?
Maybe we are gonna find out.
What I wanna demonstrate with thispodcast episode, and with everything I
was sharing on Instagram last week asI was digging through the guide, I want
(02:36):
you to be a critical thinker of anythingthat comes across your social media.
Anything that comes across yourdesk, your email, whatever you
receive, even if it's from me.
You need to have a critical mindset.
Just because something has a bigshiny seal of approval from a big
government body, it may or may notactually be a quality resource, and this
(03:00):
critical thinking is not always easy.
What's not?
It?
It simply isn't.
It takes a deep understanding.
Of what neurodiversity affirmingapproaches are, and it takes a deep
knowing and listening to a varietyof diverse autistic perspectives to
understand what is actually gonna help us.
So as you come across any particularresource or idea or strategy or
(03:22):
program, you need to step back and askwho created it, when was it created?
What are the values that it reflects?
Were people with diverse lived experienceinvolved in creating this resource?
Does it honor genuine autisticcommunication and self-expression?
In ways that show up differentlyfor different people, does it push
(03:43):
masking and compliance and squashus down and try to make us fit
into little neurotypical boxes?
So what I'm gonna sharewith you shortly is.
A slightly edited version of what Iput on my Instagram stories as I was
digging through the communication moduleof the Autistics Guide to Adulthood.
I'm just gonna go out and sayit like, I'm not gonna make
(04:03):
it a click hang it to the end.
I don't recommend this.
I don't recommend this resource, but Iwant you to hear my process, my thought
process through it, and I won't say it'sall bad, and it's also not all good.
I am gonna share with you where itfalls short of neurodiversity affirming
approaches and how it can be harmful,and some ideas for how the topics covered
could be shared in a more affirming way.
(04:25):
Because it's not just about me gettingenraged about a workbook that has typos
and really bad ideas and graphics.
I do get a little bit excitable.
I, I don't know if it's enraged.
It was a little Friday afternoon vibe.
I want you to see this is whathappens when systemic government
funded resources that are put upon a pedestal continue to reinforce
(04:46):
outdated non-affirmative approaches.
It's too easy to look at theseresources and think, oh, well, you know,
they're official so they must be good.
No.
So come with me on a journey.
We are going to dive into the AutisticsGuide to Adulthood communication module,
and I'll share some of my thoughts andat the end I'll come back full circle
and tell you more about how else I couldhelp you develop your critical thinking
(05:10):
and your neurodiversity affirmingskills and knowledge and confidence
to really understand what is and what.
Isn't neurodiversity affirming and youknow, it's not necessarily that simple.
It, it's a process of learning.
let's dive into the guide.
NDIS has promoted the AutisticsGuide to Adulthood resource free.
I am, I'll be honest, not hopeful.
(05:30):
I'm curious though.
Let's, let's go curious.
So I've signed up and I'mgonna see what it's all about.
The first thing I'm gonna callout is so I'm a course creator.
And I know about platforms andusability, and I also experience
life as an autistic adult.
Many of us take things veryliterally and don't, go well with new
(05:54):
things or confusing things here.
If you go to skills in this,nationally endorsed funded program.
There's these skills, five pages of them.
I'm gonna say that's probably a hundred.
And it's confusing.
So if I go to compliance awareness,I'm like, what is that doing in
a course for autistic adults?
(06:14):
I think it's just like a standardthing that came with the template
or something, and you go to externalresources and there's all these
like, Google Link Very confusing.
So that's thrown me off.
Attention to detail.
Ooh, interesting.
Attention to detail.
Enables professionals tometiculously examine information
blah, blah, blah, blah.
What's going on though?
Like, I don't understand what thiswhole section is and all these
(06:35):
Google things, so that's thrown me.
I'll just leave that thought there.
These are the modules available, so we'vegot romantic relationships, communication,
physical health, self-advocacy, education,entertainment, recreation and leisure,
friendship, living independently,employment and mental health.
That's a decent start.
Seems okay.
I'm okay with these.
I decided to go straight into thecommunication module because that
(06:57):
is one of my areas of expertise.
So let's have a look.
Here's the communication workbook.
Look, I'm not gonna say it's allterrible, but it's not great.
Here's an example ofsomething that is terrible.
I haven't watched, the modulesthat go along with it, but
according to the workbook, it'sincredibly prescriptive about what.
Facial expressions are and mean.
Without acknowledging the fact thatmany people have different expressions,
(07:20):
many people may hide or not be ableto show their expressions in these
expected ways or in these ways.
And by showing the expressionsand body language in such a. One
dimensional way, like this is bored.
This is open to a conversation.
It's incredibly unaffirming.
It's incredibly unhelpful.
All it's going to do is reinforceneurotypical norms and reinforce the
(07:44):
fact that autistic people are supposedto be looking for only a very narrow band
of, what is sad and being very literalabout, looking for that particular facial
expression , maybe the video modules aredifferent, but there doesn't seem to be
wiggle room for nuance or difference.
This page here on big emotions screamsto me that it's promoting, masking.
(08:09):
So what it's saying, reflectionactivity, big emotions.
And it's got a few examples.
Happy, someone laughing,jumping around and yelling.
Sad, someone sobbing loudly,angry, someone screaming,
yelling, and threatening others.
Excited someone jumpingup and down on tables.
Loving two people passionatelykissing each other.
Choose a big emotion scenario fromthe above list and write down how
you would feel if you saw someonedoing this in public in front of you.
(08:31):
You may also like to write downan alternative way a person
could show their big emotion.
Again, I haven't gone to the module thatI assume goes along with this, so maybe
there's more nuance and maybe it's handledvery sensitively To me, this workbook
page is saying that if somebody expressestheir big emotions in these ways, for
example, the autistic person completingthis course, this is shaming them, trying
(08:52):
to direct them to recognize that thatmay be wrong or may offend other people.
All of this so far has been aboutthe autistic person changing to
accommodate other people rather thanother people learning to understand
the autistic person or the autisticperson understanding themself more and
understanding that their different wayof expressing things is valid for them.
(09:15):
So the more in depthcontent is not better.
Like I kind of hoped it might've been.
This section on smalltalk is pretty rough.
Apparently most people don't reallylike small talk, so that's kind of okay.
In a way, it sort of validatesthe fact that small talk might
be not fun for many people.
I don't know if that's true,that most people don't like it.
I would say many autistic, maybemost autistic people don't like it.
(09:37):
But what's not here?
Anywhere in the top, 90% of the pageis anything about it being okay to
have a different preference for howto communicate It's got instructions
for how to make small talk, Nevermindthe fact that you may not like it.
Do it anyway.
And here's how you do it.
And oh, a last little afterthought.
says "small talk and autism.
Many autistics feel as though talkingabout things they do not connect with
(10:00):
can feel unnatural and appear forced.
This can be very draining on your energy.
If you feel this way, just takefrom this section what helps
you and leave what does not.
Remember.
Everyone is different and thatis okay." Now that statement
and information is helpful.
It should not be an afterthought.
At minimum, it should be moved to thevery top to outline and preface this
whole section, but I actually don'tthink that's anywhere near enough.
(10:22):
What needs to be shared.
So like what am I hoping for is anunderstanding that there are different
ways of communicating that some peopledo small talk, some don't, and there
might be times to do it, and theremight be times to advocate for yourself.
That you don't wanna do smalltalk and that it's okay not to.
And maybe there are somestrategies that we can teach how
(10:44):
people can not do small talk.
Maybe there are energy managementstrategies that are outlined very
clearly that go around this idea.
It's good that it's calling out.
The fact that small talk isyou know, not for everyone.
But oh, this is missingthe mark in so many ways.
Let's have a look at this section.
Having interests you're passionate about.
I had a sinking feeling thatthis would be problematic.
(11:06):
And yeah, so it's a mix.
Okay, I'll give credit.
So it talks about the fact that youcan have hobbies, special interests,
passions, and that can be good.
Then it kind of heads into cautious mode.
Things like spelling out thatyou might have to consider if
something is an unusual interest.
That is such a subjective thing.
What I do appreciate is thatit talks about finding other
(11:29):
people who show your interests.
Like that's good.
Good.
Hooray.
I was not looking forward to readingthis over talking While having
passions and interests is important,sometimes we're really interested in.
And passionate about something.
It can be easy to lose track oftime and talk too much about it.
"Too much", " over- talking".
These are judgment phrases.
They are neurotypical judgments that weare now placing on the autistic adults.
(11:51):
Reading this to, again, shameus into making us feel that we
are wrong and the way that wewanna think, process and share.
Is the problem.
Now, the double empathy problemtells us that it goes two ways.
Non-autistic people need to understandthat autistic people have different
ways of connecting, and sometimes thatmeans skipping over small talk and
(12:12):
going straight into special interests.
Also.
I like straight talking.
It's a fairly common autistic feature.
I think it's really, really importantto spell it out to people and say
things like, "I don't have thebandwidth to chat about this right now."
They do call this out this is nice.
Sometimes someone may give us an obviousoutright cue to change the topic.
(12:33):
Okay.
I've had enough talking about this now.
That to me reads like a nice likeautistic phrase, which neurotypicals
may take that very harshly.
I would really like that because Idon't have to read between the lines.
Look, there's so much to communication.
There's so much about tone of voice andbody language and facial expressions
hedging comments and masking andyou know, it's very complicated.
(12:56):
This resource is completely missingthe mark by putting the full burden on
autistic people to do the changing andto do all the hiding, and to continue to
judge ourselves the way that society hastried to put on us for a very, very, very
long time, to judge ourselves that we areover talking, that we are the problem, and
that our natural tendency is the problem.
It's not.
(13:17):
Okay.
While I have so much more to say aboutthe Autistics Guide to Adulthood Resource,
promoted and paid for by NDIS, I'm goingto switch the positive for a moment.
I'm gonna share a wonderful example ofif you're an autistic adult, well, you
know, an autistic adult and you wannagive them a really affirming way of.
(13:37):
Learning about yourselfand how to navigate life.
I strongly recommend my Good FriendSteph's Embracing You course.
I'm gonna link to it because she's a gem.
Everything she teaches isabsolutely about dismantling this
ableist, non neuro affirming.
Masking hiding shame-based approach,which the Autistics Guide to Adulthood
(14:00):
Resource seems to be promoting.
So there you have it.
That was my little tour insidethe Autistics Guide to Adulthood.
As I said, I don't endorse this.
I don't recommend this resource.
I do recommend that you findsupports resources and information
from neurodiversity affirmingautistic adults and children.
(14:21):
To really help you learn andunderstand the nuances around
neurodiversity affirming approaches.
So whether you're supportingautistic adults yourself, perhaps
whether you are supporting autisticchildren, the concepts are the same.
And I really hope that you will continueyour journey of learning and critical
thinking to help you on this path.
I have a free checklist,Neurodiversity Affirming Social Support
(14:44):
approaches for autistic Children.
All of the themes that we've talkedabout from the Autistic Guide to
Adulthood, these wouldn't passmost of the points of my checklist.
It's the same points.
How are we supporting people to havegenuine connection, to be genuinely
honored their true selves, to findconnection with other people who are
like-minded, who respect them for whothey are, perhaps share interests.
(15:07):
Enjoy each other's communication style.
Know, most of the time we're still human.
It doesn't always go smooth.
That's okay.
But we need to be pushing supports,therapies, strategies, resources
that allow autistic people tothrive in their autistic selves
rather than trying to change us tofit into that neuronormative box.
(15:27):
So keep going on yourcritical thinking journey.
Please don't just assume thatbecause something is officially
endorsed or promoted or veryshiny that it is best practice.
It might be, and it might not be.
You can grab my free checklist.
The Neurodiversity Affirming SocialSupport Approaches for Autistic
Children the link Is in the show notes.
And if you are ready for a deeper diveinto learning about neurodiversity
(15:49):
affirming practice, my neurodiversityaffirming Practice learning hub bundle
is already discounted at bundles togethermost of my key webinars and workshops.
that's for professionals whosupport Neurodivergent Children.
It is already discounted, so you canalso get an extra 10% off with the
code POD10 POD, and NUMERALS one zero.
(16:11):
All that info is in the show notes.
Don't feel that you have to remember it.
Thank you so much for joining me andfor choosing to think critically in
your journey to figuring out how youcan best support autistic people.
Thank you for being open tolearning and unlearning and to
listening to the perspectives andexperiences of Neurodivergent folks.
(16:34):
If you found this episode helpful,please share it with a friend, share a
screenshot on Instagram, pop a five starrating and a review in your favorite app.
And join me on Instagram and Facebook.
I'm @play.Learn.chat.
Have a beautiful day.
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