December 5, 2024 • 34 mins
Our unfiltered thoughts about some key discussions from the Chardonnay Symposium.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi and welcome to Wine, with Megan Mallow here to
help you navigate the world ofwine.
I'm Mel Gill, cruise-trived byMaster of Wine Megan Brutman.
How you going, meg?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm good, you look really tall.
She's doing standing desk today.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm standing today Because sitting is the new
smoking Exactly, exactly,apparently.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I am well, I'm a bit weary.
I've just got back from theMaster of Wine Residential
Education Seminar.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So you're teaching.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So it's not really.
Yeah, it's not a lot ofteaching.
So I did stage one, so that'sthe first years and I sit down
and we talk about the theorypaper, because I was the panel
chair for the theory paper too.
Top tips, techniques to doanswer the question, use of
examples it's just sort of howto pass the exam.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So you're like help, yeah, helping.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And then they do a blind paper, tasting 12 paper,
12 wine paper every day, and oneof them is the mock exam exam
which we then mark and then givethem feedback.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
so yeah, it's a lot.
Will you sprick in the pod?
Oh well, no, I hope we have newlisteners everyone was
spruiking it to me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
They came up and introduced themselves to me and
said oh we love listening to thepod.
And then kate mcintyre, who's amaster of wine from muruduk
estate and she's a good mate,she said oh, everyone that she
works with listens to the pod,so shout out to everyone at
Booroo at Ducker State.
Thank you very much forlistening to us.
Yeah, so people were coming upto me.
It's amazing how, because youget all the statistics, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's amazing how wide the listening pool is I don't
the statistics like they don'tseem real.
Like you see, I don't thestatistics like they don't seem
real.
Like you see, I don't know.
We get towards like 10,000listeners a month.
No, that's downloads, notlisteners.
So that's potentially if we doa few episodes in a month.
(01:54):
You know that's double ups andstuff.
So it's not 10,000 people.
So say there's definitethousands of people, but it's
like you don't, it doesn't seemreal.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
No, because it's just numbers on a screen really.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And then every now and then you're like, oh no, I
can't tell that story, but yeah,no, it's just crazy how many
people do this.
So, thank you, we love you.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, I was really surprised, but it's really nice.
But it makes me wonder, youknow, are we being educational
enough?
But anyway, people arelistening, for whatever reason
they're listening to.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I don't know.
I think we do a good job of oh,that's what they say that's
what they say.
Like I, I, I would hope that abeginner could listen and learn
stuff and an aspiring master ofone.
Well, that's why there's thetwo of us, right?
Yeah, that's right.
We stand for two differentaudiences.
(02:50):
So today, what I wanted to dois so.
We had Chardonnay Symposium afew weeks ago, which was the big
Yarra Valley celebration ofChardonnay.
I came away so like inspiredand wanting to talk about
everything that happened, and soI was like Meg, we really have
to talk about it, even though webarely have time.
So we're just going to try andsmash out a few things, because
I thought there was someinteresting stuff in it.
Oh no, I think we definitelyshould talk about it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
We can make time, darling.
Oh, we can make time.
Why are you talking aboutChardonnay?
How hard is it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
We're all hard for Chard, as I said.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
In her opening address.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
We're down.
It's this room full ofprofessionals.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Beautiful room at Levantine Hill.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Oh, my God beautiful room.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It was a great venue.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh my God, I've never been there.
The venue was amazing andeveryone's like there's a lot of
people in like suits and stuff.
It was a very serious vibe andeveryone like sits down at these
white tables and they've gotall their notebooks and
everything and they're ready tolearn and they get up and she's
doing her presidential address.
She literally said the wordshard for Sian.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, I was looking at their faces and they were all
very serious.
I was first off the block.
To be fair, you know, I hadthis whole thing about.
Chardonnay is more than just agrape variety.
It's about a sense of place andthe innovation of winemakers,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I kind of reeled that offand I thought, oh, let's just
lighten the mood a little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Oh, I'm glad you did.
My God, things can get seriousin those sort of environments.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Well, we were there to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yes, and loon, and loon, but yes, Anyway.
Okay, so before we get into it,we're going to just go into
some main things that came outof it.
Actually, the main things thatI kind of want to discuss are
our opinions of some of the okayopinions that were said.
Yep, um, but first meg what youbeen drinking oh, what haven't
I been drinking?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
oh my god, after the week you've had yeah, I've just
got back from the mw seminar, um, and so every night is a dinner
where you take a bottle of wineand people bring wine.
But on Wednesday night we hadjust the MW's dinner and there
was a 2007 Bollie Rose champagne.
That was just extraordinary.
(04:55):
I have no idea how much it costEveryone at these dinners.
We're all.
It's a little bit of dickslapping.
You know, we're all coming outwith the best wines that we
possibly can, and yeah, it was.
People are just so generous.
You know we're all coming outwith the best wines that we
possibly can.
Um, and yeah, it was peoplejust so generous, you know, and
I don't know who brought itmaybe annette lacey.
She was pouring it anyway, butit was, I'm actually.
Maybe the institute provided it, because bollinger is a um
(05:19):
sponsor, so maybe because therewere two bottles of it, so maybe
the institute?
Um, it's sort of a thank you tomws, because we do this for
free.
You don't get paid for it, you.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
MWs turn up for it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Which is crazy to me, because I'm sorry but, like the
people who are studying thiscan't be poor, can they?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I think they're poor after they've studied.
It's like 10.
We figured out for the firstyear it's about 15 grand.
With wine included, that'scrazy, yeah, and travelling to
the seminar and I think it's4,000 pound for the first year.
So that's 8 grand.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Can I digress?
What kind of person does this?
Are they all really really highachievers type A?
All the same type ofpersonality.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So Sean, so Sean Mitchell, who works at the
Prince Wine Store and teachesthrough WCT.
He's a lawyer, so he's doing it.
And there was a girl calledAnjali.
She works for WCT in the UK, soshe flew out for it.
She was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
But like, do they all have the same vibe, like real
go-getter, like A lot of them.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The first years are a little bit deer in the
headlights.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it isa lot.
There's a guy from Dan Murphy'swho I met at my Dan Murphy's
the other day and he said, oh,I'll see you during the week and
I'm like, who are you?
I don't know who you are.
It was really nice.
Yeah, look, there are many ofthem.
They have to.
(06:48):
They're supposed to work in thewine trade.
Yeah, so that is sort of thekey.
It used to be a minimum of fiveyears' experience in the wine
trade.
Yeah, okay.
So most of them seem to havedone their diploma, which is
good, yeah.
So I certainly found, justhaving a look at the exams, that
their ability to taste andanalyse was much better than it
had been previously.
The last time I did it was 2011, because I was an examiner, I
wasn't allowed to be involved.
(07:09):
So it's been, you know, over adecade since I've been
face-to-face with the students.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
That must be nice.
Yeah, it is tiring, though it'sjust the dinners and there's a
lot of emotion, you know,because you sit them down to do
their exam, their mock exam andyou say to them oh look, you
failed, yeah, but look, there'ssome really good stuff in here.
So you want them to walk awayfeeling energized rather than,
you know, feeling like a pieceof crap, because there's always
(07:36):
positives and so you can say,well, that the way you answered
that question was really good.
Copy that in future.
Yeah, okay, yeah, so they're avaried group, a lot of overseas
people, so, yeah, I think therewere over 34 of them Far out
Across first year and secondyear.
Do you think they'll get it?
(07:57):
Oh, sorry, we have Billy.
A little fall, a little fall, alittle fall.
She's okay.
Anyway, we're going on toChardonnay Symposium, okay yes,
let's just go.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So I have some specific thoughts, but what are
your general?
Let's go with.
Like anything big that changedyour mind, or like what were
your takeaways?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
mind, or like what were your takeaways?
The takeaway for me was the um,the ocean between what
winemakers want and what theconsumer wants yes, yes, and the
amount of the amount ofdiscussion that came out of that
.
Um, for me it was reallyheartening, because not that
anyone's right or wrong, butjust that that's what the whole
point of the symposium was toactually promote discussion and
(08:56):
thought and innovation.
So I think it was Elaine ChukanBrown who made the comment that
I was amazed sitting here, ormaybe it was Jeremy Oliver in
his article afterwards.
I'm amazed sitting herelistening to people talk about
the vessel chat and what youwant to do is knock back the
fruit.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Why, yeah, it's Chardonnay.
And then to have Will Lyons,who's a wine writer for Sunday
Times in the UK, come up, sit upand say there's room for
buttery Chardonnays.
You know, it doesn't all haveto be this flinty mineral
thinner Chardonnay.
And even Elaine said thatlisten to your customers.
(09:35):
And we were shown the KendallJackson Vintners Reserve
Chardonnay with, I think theysaid, 20 grams per litre of
residual sugar, although therewas some discussion on that at
the MW this week.
Anyway, yeah, Obviously sweetChardonnay with.
For me it smelled like thatpancake mix.
Yeah, it was just vanilla, likesomeone had dropped vanilla
(09:55):
essence?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And I just thought, oh my God, that is just so out
of balance.
Biggest selling Chardonnay inthe world 20 million cases, yeah
, wow.
And I was talking to MattDeller from Wirra Wirra
yesterday and he said that theyclaim he used to work in the US,
but I can't remember who for.
But they claim for everymillion cases they added another
(10:19):
gram of sugar to them.
I said, well, that would beabout right, because it is about
20 grams per litre.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I mean, the question is who do we want to be?
What do we want to be?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well, who are we talking to?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
What are we doing with Chardonnay?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So I definitely think there's space for those
beautiful mineral Chardonnays,the Funda and Diamond from Oak
Ridge you know the giant Sepswines.
But we can't ignore the factthat Chardonnay is an incredibly
diverse, great variety.
It takes on a lot of winemakingand why aren't we trying
different styles of wine?
Why are we just going down thisvery austere thing and we're
(11:05):
talking to what Maybe 1% of thewine-drinking population?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh, totally not much, yeah.
So I have a question about whatWill Lyons said to us, and I
loved this quote.
He said can you stop scoffingat people who drink commercial
wine?
You're like you're all sittingin this room on your high horses
.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and I found it interesting that when they were
doing the history of Chardonnay,there was no mention of
Lindemann's Bin 65, which wasthe that put Australian
Chardonnay on the global map.
So there is such a disconnect.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, but here's the thing right.
I heard a lot of peopleafterwards weren't keen on his
comments.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Of course not because they don't like.
This is why I thought it wasfantastic.
It's like, well, don't tell uswhat to do.
We know what we're doing, butthey're all doing the same thing
.
That's what we should.
In hindsight, we should havehad someone, maybe, who's making
yellow tail shawty.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Totally, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
That's a good point, so that we are talking across
and recognising.
But the question is we have torecognise that there is a broad
spectrum of Chardonnay drinkers.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
If we want our Chardonnay to be recognised as
really high quality, though Ithink that's where people get
annoyed when there are likeyellow tails in the world,
because it does taint our image.
I think that might be whatpeople are saying, but our image
that we've created in our ownlittle heads.
So then, why aren't we trying tochange it Like I mean sorry, no
(12:37):
, sorry, I didn't get what yousaid properly as in like we
created overseas with yellowtail and stuff, bin 65.
Bin 65.
Bin 65.
Yeah, you know all of themassive Chardonnays that went
out there.
Everyone thinks of Australia asa certain thing now.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sunshine in a bottle.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, so we're all trying to make an effort to
change it and in the YarraValley we're all like we want to
be premium.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And then Will came along and was like you guys,
there's a place for the otherthing, and I don't know is there
.
If we want to be known forpremium, we are premium, but
premium doesn't have tonecessarily mean one style and
that's fine and talk in yourpremium, but recognize that
that's not what everyone wantsto drink.
That's the most important thing.
(13:19):
It's it.
I think will's comment was tothe point that you're just
ignoring this whole swath of thepopulation that wants these
styles of wine.
And I don't think Will wassaying to us oh, you have to to
the Yarra Valley.
When I say us you have to makethese styles of wine, I think he
was just saying hey, don'tignore it.
And you know, Max Allen wassitting next to me and said why
haven't they talked about Bin 65?
(13:40):
Like you can't be in your ownbubble?
It was the same discussionaround the nepotism in the wine
shows industry and we need torecognise that.
Maybe there is some of that,Maybe there is a reduced pool of
people that we're calling onand so that certain styles are
getting up all the time.
Because of course, there isbias.
(14:01):
When you taste wine, you try toremove it as much as possible,
but there is an inherent bias ineverything that we do.
So I just I thought it wasreally thought-provoking.
That's what I loved about Willand Elaine was the same Elaine
Trucambre, yeah she was cool.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
She said that statistically, people, like most
people, start drinking wineonce they become married.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I know.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Because a bottle is too big for one person.
Yeah, I know I'm like that'ssuch a good point oh, we got
little boppy billy here todayyeah, nanny's in New Zealand, so
we just have to make it work wewill make it work okay.
So there was um something Iwanted to bring up, which was um
(14:43):
a question, so I told thisstory.
Okay, so I was saying to megbefore that I don't know, I was
away from the baby.
Something happened to me atchina symposium even before I'd
had anything to drink.
I was just confident.
It was like you were back inyour world.
I was back in my world and thebaby was safe with dad and I was
just like you're, mel gilchristmarketer extraordinaire, but it
(15:05):
was like mel Mel Gilchrist onsteroids, because Uh-oh, that's
dangerous, right, I was justlike looking up to people and
introducing myself and like,honestly, stuff that I probably
would have been too nervous todo before, but I don't know what
happened to me.
Anyway, there was a Q&A sessionand I was like, oh yes screw it
.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It was a great question, though.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So my question was okay, I preface this by saying
Virginia Wilcock was there.
Yes, meg, can you describeshe's?
Very?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
well known In terms of Chardonnay producers in the
world Virginia Wilcox, vanyaCullen, steve Flamsteed, dave
Mickmill, mel Chester, you know,and Sean Smith.
So they were all in the room,yes, except for Vanya, she
wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So Virginia's from Margaruba, yes, and I get up and
my question is I said I've beendrinking a bit of Margaret
River Chardonnay lately and theyall seem to be really like lean
and mineral and tight and,honestly, not effort that
regions should have a uniqueidentity and a different kind of
(16:29):
style to help consumers, and soI'm kind of like I didn't rat
on Margaret Rubin but I was justlike you know, it's looking
different it is, and someoneelse made the comment.
I think someone had alluded tothat Well later, so I said do
you think that, like, maybe weshould actually be making a
(16:50):
better effort so that ourdifferent regions have
particular styles to kind ofhelp guide consumers to what
they drink?
And the whole panel was justlike no, how dare you.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Everyone shook their heads vigorously, and yet we
talk about these single vineyardwines.
It just makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
And then make the.
But the whole day people hadbeen like you know what you guys
need to do.
You need to talk aboutsub-regions and I'm like how are
we meant to talk aboutsub-regions of Australia if
there's no thread Like what arewe going to say, here's the
Yarra Valley?
We no thread Like what are wegoing to say here's the Yarra
Valley?
We make all styles ofChardonnay.
Here's my Groover.
What you need to know about myGroover is all styles of
(17:30):
Chardonnay.
This is Mel's argument.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
If she hears wine regions talk about diversity one
more time, she's going to shootthem.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I will only because, as a marketer, I know that
people can only take in, takinglike a.
So okay, I give an examplestonely um sauvignon blanc in um
in new zealand sorry, no, incanada.
um, so it's a new zealand wine,but in canada they tried to talk
too much.
This is, this is story, andthere's stones, and the stones
(17:59):
take in the heat and then theheat put it into the vines and
this whole thing and um, and itjust was too much for consumers
to follow right, and so theyshelved the winemaking and the
viticulture story and they wentthis one tastes like grapefruit,
grapefruit and passion fruit,and it's not a cheap wine over
(18:22):
there $20 wine over there.
Oh, okay, so that is up there.
Yeah so we're talking premium,yep.
Do you know how much sales wentthrough the roof when they just
said this wine tastes likegrapefruit, like we lose
consumers when we get too crazy.
And I just think that if wegive them a couple of easy
things to remember about eachI'm not saying that everything
(18:42):
has to be exactly the same, butcan we try and find some kind of
regional style, just to?
I just think it would help.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I agree, I think, with Chardonnay.
There can be so much winemakerartefact Love that term.
There can be so much winemakingin there, but Yarra Valley,
certainly in the early 2010syeah started going through.
They really went, I think, fartoo far down that lean, and we
(19:11):
lost all sense of fruit.
And I just, you know, I tastethese funder and diamonds and
the hank vineyard and I justthink that these are stunning
wines.
But if we're, if we're,knocking the fruit back, which
seems to be what we want to do,is it talking of the vineyard?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, and that was the point that, who was it that
said it?
Someone said it might have beenJamie.
You can't taste vineyard in aChardonnay, you can't in other
wines, and you can say that youdon't agree, Meg, but he was
saying that you can't tastevineyard at all.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
So what are we doing when we talk about Burgundy?
You know, I think, what theywere trying to.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, he also made the point that if you put
Burgundy in a lineup I actuallywrote down a really good quote
that was like you put Burgundyin a lineup, when you taste them
together you realize thatBurgundy hasn't got much of an
advantage.
Oh, it's true, the great winesof the world, taste of blind,
always disappoint.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
He also said it's true, which is why we do blind
tastings, which is why the youknow the whole Paris thing oh
God, happened.
Yeah, I'll just leave it.
Yeah, so it was verythought-provoking.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So I just wanted to share because I thought I was
really right.
That's surprising.
But then I was like, well, Iwonder what our listeners think.
So I asked them and okay, so Idid put it up on our instagram
(20:48):
saying would you like it if wehad regional style and this
isn't just chardonnay, this isacross everything in australia.
Like do you think that regionsshould make a conceded effort to
have a consistent style?
Um, 59 said no, I want thevariety 41.
So listeners don't agree with me, that's okay, but I thought I
(21:10):
would share just a couple ofthings.
So, um, someone on the side ofwanting yes said personally, I
think, when browsing a largewine list sort of restaurant, it
would just be nice to be ableto see a region and know what
you're going to get on, or atleast kind of, and to be able to
align that with your palate.
(21:30):
So it would make life easierand just be a bit more reliable.
Um, someone else oh my God,this is really long, but I like
winemakers being a bit moreadventurous.
But okay, this is a bit she'ssaying, but she thinks they get
it wrong.
(21:55):
So I see a lot of winemakersmaking wines using grapes that
are not naturally suited to theclimate, in particular styles to
cater to the current markettrends, which I get.
But if we've got to sell wine,if Sabi is on trend, I think I
can grow it in my vineyard.
I'll do it too to make a buck.
So she's thinking people doingthings on trend that don't suit
vineyard.
I'll do it too to make a buck.
So she's thinking people doingthings on trend that don't suit.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Case in point, I had this week a 14 percent sancerre
that was barrel fermented yeah,okay, why right?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
no, but this is the thing like I just I I guess I
model friends and I go French,did it so well, and I know that
we don't want to be French, butcan we take a little leaf out
that book?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
well, they're almost moving down our road now and
being everything to everyone,whereas Sanse used to be.
You know, flinty mineral blackcurrant leaf elderflower.
You pick up this one, you go,it's got oak in it, and but I
know I'm in the Loire.
Where am I putting this wine?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
just the best brands in the world.
It's just like branding 101that you can't be everything to
everyone.
That's right that's what annoysme.
You need to stand for something, and that's the only way you're
going to get through toconsumers but I guess that's
what the arrow really is doingwith some more mineral stars
well, I guess, and that is whatthe arrow is doing.
Um, anyway, I finished my storyright, so I kind of I didn't
trash on my group of it, youknow no's a valid question.
(23:08):
I still didn't want to goanywhere near Virginia for the
rest of the night.
She's.
I get on the bus at the end ofthe night.
I thought I'd avoided her.
Well, and you step on the busand she goes.
Yay, you're the girl that askedthe question about Margaret
River and I was like how is thishappening?
Did you just sit next to her onthe way home?
(23:30):
Then, yeah, I sat near her.
Yeah, she's lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
She was awesome.
She's tough, but she's lovely.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Oh my God, she was tough as and we had a really
good chat about it she actuallythinks she doesn't agree.
She thinks the Margaret Riverdoes have bigger styles still,
yes, it does.
And she thinks that becausewe're in podcasting and this is
actually kind of true.
Remember we got sent all thosemargaret river wines.
Yes, she said you're probablygetting wines that are just
(23:54):
released, and she said margaretriver wines needs to sit in the
bottle for like well over a year.
It needs time to become what itis and everyone's releasing it
too soon, so it looks like itshouldn't it'd be interesting to
see when we did that onlinemargarita thing.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
What year the wines?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
were.
I'm so sure that they were allnew releases Okay, current
releases.
Which is why.
Yeah, anyway, I could have diedin that moment, anything else
to discuss.
I liked this.
So Richard Hemming is from Pal67 Pal Mail, 67 Pal Mail.
So Richard Hemming is from Pal67 Pal Mal, 67 Pal Mal.
So can you explain?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
it.
So 67 Pal Mal is a members clubfor wine lovers.
There's one in London, there'sone in Singapore, there's one
opening in Melbourne in July, Ithink you said next year.
So you pay, I think, for atrade membership.
For someone like us, earlything is $1,500 a year, yeah,
and there's a processing fee oflike $700.
(24:53):
So it's quite expensive but youget invited to all these really
high-end events.
You still have to pay, yeah,but you've also got rooms to
have conferencing and chats andmeetings and everything.
So it's like an old-schoolmembers club but it's a round
one and it's been a hugelysuccessful model.
I was talking to someBritish-based MWs this week and
they were saying, yeah, they doa lot of their networking at 67
(25:13):
Palmel, so for the trade I thinkit's a really good place to be.
Yep, I would love to join, butit's in the city.
I just question how useful itwould actually be.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Singapore, it would work.
I'm not sure how it would go inMelbourne.
Yeah, so poor, it would work.
I'm not sure how it'd go inmelbourne, yeah, so yeah,
richard hemming is the amazingwine list, though like in a
thousand wines by the glass.
Yeah, crazy, yeah crazy.
And so he knows his stuff.
He does, and okay, so all day,everyone had been up there going
.
If you're not drinking burgundy, you're drinking australian
(25:43):
chardonnay.
Australian chardonnay is upthere with burgundy.
You guys are amazing, just likefull wanking us off.
And then Richard comes up andgoes.
You make some of the bestChardonnay in the world, but and
there was a but he goes.
Anyone is capable of doing itat this level.
He's like you just happen to bedoing it, but anyone is capable
, like anyone producing regioncould make Chardonnay this good.
(26:06):
So what else you got?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
and could make Chardonnay this good.
So what else you got?
Yeah, there was a dumbfoundedsilence, and that's the thing I
loved about the seminar.
These people weren't toofrightened to get up and speak
their minds.
Because this is the problem wedo talk in an echo chamber a lot
.
Yeah, and we're not lookingglobally.
Yes, yes, and our position.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
We needed that global perspective yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, so it was very thought-provoking the whole
thing.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It was the only last thing.
Jeez, we've got Billie justravaging the place.
The only last thing I wanted tobring out was vessel chat.
There was a glass vessel in theroom.
Oh, good question, Did you ask?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
the light strike.
Question no someone else did.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Oh, good question.
Did you ask the light strikequestion?
No, someone else did.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Oh, I thought that was you.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's got a little jacket, okay, so what do we
think of the glass vessel?
What?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
did you think of the wine?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
It looks like a light globe, right, but a really big
light globe.
Yeah, the wine didn't impressme.
No, it looks like a light globe, right, but a really big light
globe.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, the wine didn't impress me.
No, so you're allowed to saythat.
Yeah, place of Changing Winds,is that it Remy?
Yeah, so he's French and he'sthe winemaker.
But he also sells the vessels.
So they are beautiful, but Ithink the take-home message from
that was the fragility of a lotof these, the difficulty of
(27:30):
actually the logistics ofworking with them.
Paul Bridgman talking about hisconcrete tulips that he can't
move around the winery.
Yeah, melchester talking abouther ceramic eggs that just
explode, yeah.
And then the glass ones, whichlooked you could clean them
properly, but yeah, in terms ofutility, yeah, looked you could
(27:53):
clean them properly, but yeah,in terms of um utility, yeah,
what they all?
What?
What are they supposed to do?
Everyone said they knock backfruit.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, so but I don't understand how like well
concrete, you strip them butisn't the point of oak that it
covers up fruit?
So if you're choosing analternative vessel that's not
going to cover up fruit like oak, wouldn't that preserve at?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
least perception of the fruit.
Well, maybe the light globe oneis light strike, so it's
knocking back fruit because weknow that Maybe the ceramics
you're pulling there's alcoholin wine, so you are definitely
pulling something out of theseamphora.
We had an amphora and we madewine in it years ago and it just
tasted like dirty clay.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So yeah, so amphora is like a clay, it looks like a
giant vase and it's like you canuse that instead of an oak
barrel basically, and it's madefrom clay.
Yes, so what.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Are you not a fan?
I still don't think that thatthing answered the question of
what they actually do.
My takeaway from that sessionwas that it adds all of these
different vessels add blendingcomponents that increase the
complexity of the wine.
That's kind of where I landedwith the messaging of it, but no
(29:13):
one was really 100% specific.
Like what would have beeninteresting was to see the same
wine done in.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That's what I wanted.
Yeah, yeah, that's what weneeded.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
The same wine done in all the different places, the
same as when they were talkingabout the Flint the Flint aromas
, with Tracy Siebert from theWine Research Institute, and
David Bicknell was sitting upthere, and I would have loved
for him to pick up the glass andsay this is what I see and this
is what I did to get there.
So it's good having the geekyscience and then have the
(29:43):
practicality of it.
But you know, you live andlearn.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
But yeah, the vessels , hmm.
But you know, you live andlearn.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
But yeah, the vessels .
Hmm, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Well, I think, look, they are the main things I
wanted to discuss.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Was there any other big takeaways for you?
I, yeah, I, it's that globalperspective.
We've got to get outside ourown little bubble and patting
ourselves on the back.
Jeremy Oliver has written whowas invited, so he was a free of
charge guest and he has writtenquite a provocative article
about it, if you want to find it, but I thought it was
(30:17):
interesting.
People were a little bit upsetby it, but I thought well, he's
an opinion leader, you know,have an opinion.
Good on you.
Well, the thing is, Mel, wecan't sit here and be
self-congratulatory and sitthere and say, oh, we're bloody
fantastic and rah, rah, rah.
We need to question constantly,you know, because otherwise you
(30:39):
just become complacent.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'm so glad you're a person of wide narrow value,
like we need someone like youleading this anyway.
So I guess that's all for today.
If you have um questions orcomments or anything about this,
feel free to send them through,although actually this might be
our last record, so we mightnot address them, so maybe no,
we've only got a few to go tillthe end of the year.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I'm going to new zealand in a couple of weeks, so
yeah, we're running out of timeI'll write back.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
People who message the instagram know that I write
back.
You only get me Sometimes.
Sometimes I do, oh no, but theDMs?
Oh yeah, you write.
That's true.
If you comment on stuff, youmight get Meg.
That's where she'll respond.
That's a good point.
I'll do a post and be like whatdo you think?
If you do want to hear from Meg, you've got to do a comment,
(31:27):
not a DM.
All right, we do have one lastthing to cover this week, and
that is we have a message from afriend of the podcast.
She tells me that she was at areally fancy restaurant, like a
very high-class restaurant, andthat there were wine all over
(31:50):
the shelves showcasing thesereally nice bottles, and she had
this to say about it they haveall of their wines stored like
against the walls on likeshelves and it's
floor-to-ceiling height and it'squite like a.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
It's probably like a double-height floor-to-ceiling
height and it's just stacks andstacks of bottles.
It's probably like a doubleheight floor to ceiling height
and it's just stacks and stacksof bottles and surely that can't
be good storage conditions forthe bottles.
So it's quite warm in there.
Like there's no airconditioning.
It wasn't that hot on theweekend.
It was like 22 degrees.
(32:24):
It's not even summer yet, butit was hot and they've got heaps
of natural light coming in.
Um, so it's like, and it's alsobecause it's a very old
building, um, it's these woodenfloors.
So I was just feeling likethere's lots of vibrations as
well from people running aroundand people talking really loudly
and surely that's not good forthese wines.
(32:44):
Like I was looking around andthere's wines there that retail
for like four hundred dollarsplus.
I was not listening to myfriends at all, I was just
looking at all the wines there.
Surely, like I wouldn't feelcomfortable ordering a really
nice bottle there because itwould probably be like damaged
or something.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
You're right, they're not ideal storage conditions.
I'm just wondering if they'rejust the display ones and they
pull them out of the boxes outthe back.
But we recently had someone atwork ring up and they'd bought a
mystery pack of wine that had a2018 Cab Shrez Merlot in it and
they were really disappointedbecause they'd had it at a hotel
(33:27):
and it was by the glass option,and it was absolutely it.
And they were reallydisappointed because they'd had
it at a hotel and it was by theglass option and it was
absolutely disgusting.
And they were so disappointedand they rang up to tell us that
they loved the wine and thatmaybe we should contact the
people that were serving it totell them that they weren't
serving it under the bestconditions.
Wow, so I, yeah, I, always.
So if they are the bottlesthough it's not you wouldn't
(33:49):
order a fancy bottle.
If you saw that I would buysomething that's moving quickly.
Yeah, that's not sitting.
If that's why I'm sitting there, a year, six months, whatever,
not ideal In hot and coldconditions, overnight Melbourne
temperatures.
If it's an old wooden floor andit's an old building, chances
are the insulation's not thatgreat.
Yeah, so it's going to be goingup and down, up and down, up
and down, yeah, yeah, look, winebars, restaurants.
(34:13):
They don't have a lot of spaceand they often don't store wine
under the best conditions.
So I wouldn't be buying a $400bottle of wine, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Okay, well, there you go.
Thank you for sending in thequestion.
That is all for this week.
We're going to be back nextweek.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
We're doing Aldi wines next week we are A little
selection of Aldi wines, becauseCozzy lives, mate, cozzy lives.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
And we'll see you next time.
Enjoy this glass of wine, drinkwell.
Hi and welcome to Wine, with Megan Mallow here to
help you navigate the world ofwine.
I'm Mel Gill, cruise-trived byMaster of Wine Megan Brutman.
How you going, meg?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm good, you look really tall.
She's doing standing desk today.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm standing today Because sitting is the new
smoking Exactly, exactly,apparently.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I am well, I'm a bit weary.
I've just got back from theMaster of Wine Residential
Education Seminar.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So you're teaching.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So it's not really.
Yeah, it's not a lot ofteaching.
So I did stage one, so that'sthe first years and I sit down
and we talk about the theorypaper, because I was the panel
chair for the theory paper too.
Top tips, techniques to doanswer the question, use of
examples it's just sort of howto pass the exam.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
So you're like help, yeah, helping.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And then they do a blind paper, tasting 12 paper,
12 wine paper every day, and oneof them is the mock exam exam
which we then mark and then givethem feedback.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
so yeah, it's a lot.
Will you sprick in the pod?
Oh well, no, I hope we have newlisteners everyone was
spruiking it to me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
They came up and introduced themselves to me and
said oh we love listening to thepod.
And then kate mcintyre, who's amaster of wine from muruduk
estate and she's a good mate,she said oh, everyone that she
works with listens to the pod,so shout out to everyone at
Booroo at Ducker State.
Thank you very much forlistening to us.
Yeah, so people were coming upto me.
It's amazing how, because youget all the statistics, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's amazing how wide the listening pool is I don't
the statistics like they don'tseem real.
Like you see, I don't thestatistics like they don't seem
real.
Like you see, I don't know.
We get towards like 10,000listeners a month.
No, that's downloads, notlisteners.
So that's potentially if we doa few episodes in a month.
(01:54):
You know that's double ups andstuff.
So it's not 10,000 people.
So say there's definitethousands of people, but it's
like you don't, it doesn't seemreal.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
No, because it's just numbers on a screen really.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And then every now and then you're like, oh no, I
can't tell that story, but yeah,no, it's just crazy how many
people do this.
So, thank you, we love you.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, I was really surprised, but it's really nice.
But it makes me wonder, youknow, are we being educational
enough?
But anyway, people arelistening, for whatever reason
they're listening to.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I don't know.
I think we do a good job of oh,that's what they say that's
what they say.
Like I, I, I would hope that abeginner could listen and learn
stuff and an aspiring master ofone.
Well, that's why there's thetwo of us, right?
Yeah, that's right.
We stand for two differentaudiences.
(02:50):
So today, what I wanted to dois so.
We had Chardonnay Symposium afew weeks ago, which was the big
Yarra Valley celebration ofChardonnay.
I came away so like inspiredand wanting to talk about
everything that happened, and soI was like Meg, we really have
to talk about it, even though webarely have time.
So we're just going to try andsmash out a few things, because
I thought there was someinteresting stuff in it.
Oh no, I think we definitelyshould talk about it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
We can make time, darling.
Oh, we can make time.
Why are you talking aboutChardonnay?
How hard is it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
We're all hard for Chard, as I said.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
In her opening address.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
We're down.
It's this room full ofprofessionals.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Beautiful room at Levantine Hill.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Oh, my God beautiful room.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It was a great venue.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh my God, I've never been there.
The venue was amazing andeveryone's like there's a lot of
people in like suits and stuff.
It was a very serious vibe andeveryone like sits down at these
white tables and they've gotall their notebooks and
everything and they're ready tolearn and they get up and she's
doing her presidential address.
She literally said the wordshard for Sian.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, I was looking at their faces and they were all
very serious.
I was first off the block.
To be fair, you know, I hadthis whole thing about.
Chardonnay is more than just agrape variety.
It's about a sense of place andthe innovation of winemakers,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I kind of reeled that offand I thought, oh, let's just
lighten the mood a little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Oh, I'm glad you did.
My God, things can get seriousin those sort of environments.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Well, we were there to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yes, and loon, and loon, but yes, Anyway.
Okay, so before we get into it,we're going to just go into
some main things that came outof it.
Actually, the main things thatI kind of want to discuss are
our opinions of some of the okayopinions that were said.
Yep, um, but first meg what youbeen drinking oh, what haven't
I been drinking?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
oh my god, after the week you've had yeah, I've just
got back from the mw seminar, um, and so every night is a dinner
where you take a bottle of wineand people bring wine.
But on Wednesday night we hadjust the MW's dinner and there
was a 2007 Bollie Rose champagne.
That was just extraordinary.
(04:55):
I have no idea how much it costEveryone at these dinners.
We're all.
It's a little bit of dickslapping.
You know, we're all coming outwith the best wines that we
possibly can, and yeah, it was.
People are just so generous.
You know we're all coming outwith the best wines that we
possibly can.
Um, and yeah, it was peoplejust so generous, you know, and
I don't know who brought itmaybe annette lacey.
She was pouring it anyway, butit was, I'm actually.
Maybe the institute provided it, because bollinger is a um
(05:19):
sponsor, so maybe because therewere two bottles of it, so maybe
the institute?
Um, it's sort of a thank you tomws, because we do this for
free.
You don't get paid for it, you.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
MWs turn up for it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Which is crazy to me, because I'm sorry but, like the
people who are studying thiscan't be poor, can they?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I think they're poor after they've studied.
It's like 10.
We figured out for the firstyear it's about 15 grand.
With wine included, that'scrazy, yeah, and travelling to
the seminar and I think it's4,000 pound for the first year.
So that's 8 grand.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Can I digress?
What kind of person does this?
Are they all really really highachievers type A?
All the same type ofpersonality.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So Sean, so Sean Mitchell, who works at the
Prince Wine Store and teachesthrough WCT.
He's a lawyer, so he's doing it.
And there was a girl calledAnjali.
She works for WCT in the UK, soshe flew out for it.
She was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
But like, do they all have the same vibe, like real
go-getter, like A lot of them.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The first years are a little bit deer in the
headlights.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it isa lot.
There's a guy from Dan Murphy'swho I met at my Dan Murphy's
the other day and he said, oh,I'll see you during the week and
I'm like, who are you?
I don't know who you are.
It was really nice.
Yeah, look, there are many ofthem.
They have to.
(06:48):
They're supposed to work in thewine trade.
Yeah, so that is sort of thekey.
It used to be a minimum of fiveyears' experience in the wine
trade.
Yeah, okay.
So most of them seem to havedone their diploma, which is
good, yeah.
So I certainly found, justhaving a look at the exams, that
their ability to taste andanalyse was much better than it
had been previously.
The last time I did it was 2011, because I was an examiner, I
wasn't allowed to be involved.
(07:09):
So it's been, you know, over adecade since I've been
face-to-face with the students.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
That must be nice.
Yeah, it is tiring, though it'sjust the dinners and there's a
lot of emotion, you know,because you sit them down to do
their exam, their mock exam andyou say to them oh look, you
failed, yeah, but look, there'ssome really good stuff in here.
So you want them to walk awayfeeling energized rather than,
you know, feeling like a pieceof crap, because there's always
(07:36):
positives and so you can say,well, that the way you answered
that question was really good.
Copy that in future.
Yeah, okay, yeah, so they're avaried group, a lot of overseas
people, so, yeah, I think therewere over 34 of them Far out
Across first year and secondyear.
Do you think they'll get it?
(07:57):
Oh, sorry, we have Billy.
A little fall, a little fall, alittle fall.
She's okay.
Anyway, we're going on toChardonnay Symposium, okay yes,
let's just go.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So I have some specific thoughts, but what are
your general?
Let's go with.
Like anything big that changedyour mind, or like what were
your takeaways?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
mind, or like what were your takeaways?
The takeaway for me was the um,the ocean between what
winemakers want and what theconsumer wants yes, yes, and the
amount of the amount ofdiscussion that came out of that
.
Um, for me it was reallyheartening, because not that
anyone's right or wrong, butjust that that's what the whole
point of the symposium was toactually promote discussion and
(08:56):
thought and innovation.
So I think it was Elaine ChukanBrown who made the comment that
I was amazed sitting here, ormaybe it was Jeremy Oliver in
his article afterwards.
I'm amazed sitting herelistening to people talk about
the vessel chat and what youwant to do is knock back the
fruit.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Why, yeah, it's Chardonnay.
And then to have Will Lyons,who's a wine writer for Sunday
Times in the UK, come up, sit upand say there's room for
buttery Chardonnays.
You know, it doesn't all haveto be this flinty mineral
thinner Chardonnay.
And even Elaine said thatlisten to your customers.
(09:35):
And we were shown the KendallJackson Vintners Reserve
Chardonnay with, I think theysaid, 20 grams per litre of
residual sugar, although therewas some discussion on that at
the MW this week.
Anyway, yeah, Obviously sweetChardonnay with.
For me it smelled like thatpancake mix.
Yeah, it was just vanilla, likesomeone had dropped vanilla
(09:55):
essence?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And I just thought, oh my God, that is just so out
of balance.
Biggest selling Chardonnay inthe world 20 million cases, yeah
, wow.
And I was talking to MattDeller from Wirra Wirra
yesterday and he said that theyclaim he used to work in the US,
but I can't remember who for.
But they claim for everymillion cases they added another
(10:19):
gram of sugar to them.
I said, well, that would beabout right, because it is about
20 grams per litre.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I mean, the question is who do we want to be?
What do we want to be?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well, who are we talking to?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
What are we doing with Chardonnay?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So I definitely think there's space for those
beautiful mineral Chardonnays,the Funda and Diamond from Oak
Ridge you know the giant Sepswines.
But we can't ignore the factthat Chardonnay is an incredibly
diverse, great variety.
It takes on a lot of winemakingand why aren't we trying
different styles of wine?
Why are we just going down thisvery austere thing and we're
(11:05):
talking to what Maybe 1% of thewine-drinking population?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh, totally not much, yeah.
So I have a question about whatWill Lyons said to us, and I
loved this quote.
He said can you stop scoffingat people who drink commercial
wine?
You're like you're all sittingin this room on your high horses
.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and I found it interesting that when they were
doing the history of Chardonnay,there was no mention of
Lindemann's Bin 65, which wasthe that put Australian
Chardonnay on the global map.
So there is such a disconnect.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, but here's the thing right.
I heard a lot of peopleafterwards weren't keen on his
comments.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Of course not because they don't like.
This is why I thought it wasfantastic.
It's like, well, don't tell uswhat to do.
We know what we're doing, butthey're all doing the same thing
.
That's what we should.
In hindsight, we should havehad someone, maybe, who's making
yellow tail shawty.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Totally, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
That's a good point, so that we are talking across
and recognising.
But the question is we have torecognise that there is a broad
spectrum of Chardonnay drinkers.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
If we want our Chardonnay to be recognised as
really high quality, though Ithink that's where people get
annoyed when there are likeyellow tails in the world,
because it does taint our image.
I think that might be whatpeople are saying, but our image
that we've created in our ownlittle heads.
So then, why aren't we trying tochange it Like I mean sorry, no
(12:37):
, sorry, I didn't get what yousaid properly as in like we
created overseas with yellowtail and stuff, bin 65.
Bin 65.
Bin 65.
Yeah, you know all of themassive Chardonnays that went
out there.
Everyone thinks of Australia asa certain thing now.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sunshine in a bottle.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, so we're all trying to make an effort to
change it and in the YarraValley we're all like we want to
be premium.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And then Will came along and was like you guys,
there's a place for the otherthing, and I don't know is there
.
If we want to be known forpremium, we are premium, but
premium doesn't have tonecessarily mean one style and
that's fine and talk in yourpremium, but recognize that
that's not what everyone wantsto drink.
That's the most important thing.
(13:19):
It's it.
I think will's comment was tothe point that you're just
ignoring this whole swath of thepopulation that wants these
styles of wine.
And I don't think Will wassaying to us oh, you have to to
the Yarra Valley.
When I say us you have to makethese styles of wine, I think he
was just saying hey, don'tignore it.
And you know, Max Allen wassitting next to me and said why
haven't they talked about Bin 65?
(13:40):
Like you can't be in your ownbubble?
It was the same discussionaround the nepotism in the wine
shows industry and we need torecognise that.
Maybe there is some of that,Maybe there is a reduced pool of
people that we're calling onand so that certain styles are
getting up all the time.
Because of course, there isbias.
(14:01):
When you taste wine, you try toremove it as much as possible,
but there is an inherent bias ineverything that we do.
So I just I thought it wasreally thought-provoking.
That's what I loved about Willand Elaine was the same Elaine
Trucambre, yeah she was cool.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
She said that statistically, people, like most
people, start drinking wineonce they become married.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I know.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Because a bottle is too big for one person.
Yeah, I know I'm like that'ssuch a good point oh, we got
little boppy billy here todayyeah, nanny's in New Zealand, so
we just have to make it work wewill make it work okay.
So there was um something Iwanted to bring up, which was um
(14:43):
a question, so I told thisstory.
Okay, so I was saying to megbefore that I don't know, I was
away from the baby.
Something happened to me atchina symposium even before I'd
had anything to drink.
I was just confident.
It was like you were back inyour world.
I was back in my world and thebaby was safe with dad and I was
just like you're, mel gilchristmarketer extraordinaire, but it
(15:05):
was like mel Mel Gilchrist onsteroids, because Uh-oh, that's
dangerous, right, I was justlike looking up to people and
introducing myself and like,honestly, stuff that I probably
would have been too nervous todo before, but I don't know what
happened to me.
Anyway, there was a Q&A sessionand I was like, oh yes screw it
.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It was a great question, though.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So my question was okay, I preface this by saying
Virginia Wilcock was there.
Yes, meg, can you describeshe's?
Very?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
well known In terms of Chardonnay producers in the
world Virginia Wilcox, vanyaCullen, steve Flamsteed, dave
Mickmill, mel Chester, you know,and Sean Smith.
So they were all in the room,yes, except for Vanya, she
wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So Virginia's from Margaruba, yes, and I get up and
my question is I said I've beendrinking a bit of Margaret
River Chardonnay lately and theyall seem to be really like lean
and mineral and tight and,honestly, not effort that
regions should have a uniqueidentity and a different kind of
(16:29):
style to help consumers, and soI'm kind of like I didn't rat
on Margaret Rubin but I was justlike you know, it's looking
different it is, and someoneelse made the comment.
I think someone had alluded tothat Well later, so I said do
you think that, like, maybe weshould actually be making a
(16:50):
better effort so that ourdifferent regions have
particular styles to kind ofhelp guide consumers to what
they drink?
And the whole panel was justlike no, how dare you.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Everyone shook their heads vigorously, and yet we
talk about these single vineyardwines.
It just makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
And then make the.
But the whole day people hadbeen like you know what you guys
need to do.
You need to talk aboutsub-regions and I'm like how are
we meant to talk aboutsub-regions of Australia if
there's no thread Like what arewe going to say, here's the
Yarra Valley?
We no thread Like what are wegoing to say here's the Yarra
Valley?
We make all styles ofChardonnay.
Here's my Groover.
What you need to know about myGroover is all styles of
(17:30):
Chardonnay.
This is Mel's argument.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
If she hears wine regions talk about diversity one
more time, she's going to shootthem.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I will only because, as a marketer, I know that
people can only take in, takinglike a.
So okay, I give an examplestonely um sauvignon blanc in um
in new zealand sorry, no, incanada.
um, so it's a new zealand wine,but in canada they tried to talk
too much.
This is, this is story, andthere's stones, and the stones
(17:59):
take in the heat and then theheat put it into the vines and
this whole thing and um, and itjust was too much for consumers
to follow right, and so theyshelved the winemaking and the
viticulture story and they wentthis one tastes like grapefruit,
grapefruit and passion fruit,and it's not a cheap wine over
(18:22):
there $20 wine over there.
Oh, okay, so that is up there.
Yeah so we're talking premium,yep.
Do you know how much sales wentthrough the roof when they just
said this wine tastes likegrapefruit, like we lose
consumers when we get too crazy.
And I just think that if wegive them a couple of easy
things to remember about eachI'm not saying that everything
(18:42):
has to be exactly the same, butcan we try and find some kind of
regional style, just to?
I just think it would help.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I agree, I think, with Chardonnay.
There can be so much winemakerartefact Love that term.
There can be so much winemakingin there, but Yarra Valley,
certainly in the early 2010syeah started going through.
They really went, I think, fartoo far down that lean, and we
(19:11):
lost all sense of fruit.
And I just, you know, I tastethese funder and diamonds and
the hank vineyard and I justthink that these are stunning
wines.
But if we're, if we're,knocking the fruit back, which
seems to be what we want to do,is it talking of the vineyard?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, and that was the point that, who was it that
said it?
Someone said it might have beenJamie.
You can't taste vineyard in aChardonnay, you can't in other
wines, and you can say that youdon't agree, Meg, but he was
saying that you can't tastevineyard at all.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
So what are we doing when we talk about Burgundy?
You know, I think, what theywere trying to.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, he also made the point that if you put
Burgundy in a lineup I actuallywrote down a really good quote
that was like you put Burgundyin a lineup, when you taste them
together you realize thatBurgundy hasn't got much of an
advantage.
Oh, it's true, the great winesof the world, taste of blind,
always disappoint.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
He also said it's true, which is why we do blind
tastings, which is why the youknow the whole Paris thing oh
God, happened.
Yeah, I'll just leave it.
Yeah, so it was verythought-provoking.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So I just wanted to share because I thought I was
really right.
That's surprising.
But then I was like, well, Iwonder what our listeners think.
So I asked them and okay, so Idid put it up on our instagram
(20:48):
saying would you like it if wehad regional style and this
isn't just chardonnay, this isacross everything in australia.
Like do you think that regionsshould make a conceded effort to
have a consistent style?
Um, 59 said no, I want thevariety 41.
So listeners don't agree with me, that's okay, but I thought I
(21:10):
would share just a couple ofthings.
So, um, someone on the side ofwanting yes said personally, I
think, when browsing a largewine list sort of restaurant, it
would just be nice to be ableto see a region and know what
you're going to get on, or atleast kind of, and to be able to
align that with your palate.
(21:30):
So it would make life easierand just be a bit more reliable.
Um, someone else oh my God,this is really long, but I like
winemakers being a bit moreadventurous.
But okay, this is a bit she'ssaying, but she thinks they get
it wrong.
(21:55):
So I see a lot of winemakersmaking wines using grapes that
are not naturally suited to theclimate, in particular styles to
cater to the current markettrends, which I get.
But if we've got to sell wine,if Sabi is on trend, I think I
can grow it in my vineyard.
I'll do it too to make a buck.
So she's thinking people doingthings on trend that don't suit
vineyard.
I'll do it too to make a buck.
So she's thinking people doingthings on trend that don't suit.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Case in point, I had this week a 14 percent sancerre
that was barrel fermented yeah,okay, why right?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
no, but this is the thing like I just I I guess I
model friends and I go French,did it so well, and I know that
we don't want to be French, butcan we take a little leaf out
that book?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
well, they're almost moving down our road now and
being everything to everyone,whereas Sanse used to be.
You know, flinty mineral blackcurrant leaf elderflower.
You pick up this one, you go,it's got oak in it, and but I
know I'm in the Loire.
Where am I putting this wine?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
just the best brands in the world.
It's just like branding 101that you can't be everything to
everyone.
That's right that's what annoysme.
You need to stand for something, and that's the only way you're
going to get through toconsumers but I guess that's
what the arrow really is doingwith some more mineral stars
well, I guess, and that is whatthe arrow is doing.
Um, anyway, I finished my storyright, so I kind of I didn't
trash on my group of it, youknow no's a valid question.
(23:08):
I still didn't want to goanywhere near Virginia for the
rest of the night.
She's.
I get on the bus at the end ofthe night.
I thought I'd avoided her.
Well, and you step on the busand she goes.
Yay, you're the girl that askedthe question about Margaret
River and I was like how is thishappening?
Did you just sit next to her onthe way home?
(23:30):
Then, yeah, I sat near her.
Yeah, she's lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
She was awesome.
She's tough, but she's lovely.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Oh my God, she was tough as and we had a really
good chat about it she actuallythinks she doesn't agree.
She thinks the Margaret Riverdoes have bigger styles still,
yes, it does.
And she thinks that becausewe're in podcasting and this is
actually kind of true.
Remember we got sent all thosemargaret river wines.
Yes, she said you're probablygetting wines that are just
(23:54):
released, and she said margaretriver wines needs to sit in the
bottle for like well over a year.
It needs time to become what itis and everyone's releasing it
too soon, so it looks like itshouldn't it'd be interesting to
see when we did that onlinemargarita thing.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
What year the wines?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
were.
I'm so sure that they were allnew releases Okay, current
releases.
Which is why.
Yeah, anyway, I could have diedin that moment, anything else
to discuss.
I liked this.
So Richard Hemming is from Pal67 Pal Mail, 67 Pal Mail.
So Richard Hemming is from Pal67 Pal Mal, 67 Pal Mal.
So can you explain?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
it.
So 67 Pal Mal is a members clubfor wine lovers.
There's one in London, there'sone in Singapore, there's one
opening in Melbourne in July, Ithink you said next year.
So you pay, I think, for atrade membership.
For someone like us, earlything is $1,500 a year, yeah,
and there's a processing fee oflike $700.
(24:53):
So it's quite expensive but youget invited to all these really
high-end events.
You still have to pay, yeah,but you've also got rooms to
have conferencing and chats andmeetings and everything.
So it's like an old-schoolmembers club but it's a round
one and it's been a hugelysuccessful model.
I was talking to someBritish-based MWs this week and
they were saying, yeah, they doa lot of their networking at 67
(25:13):
Palmel, so for the trade I thinkit's a really good place to be.
Yep, I would love to join, butit's in the city.
I just question how useful itwould actually be.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Singapore, it would work.
I'm not sure how it would go inMelbourne.
Yeah, so poor, it would work.
I'm not sure how it'd go inmelbourne, yeah, so yeah,
richard hemming is the amazingwine list, though like in a
thousand wines by the glass.
Yeah, crazy, yeah crazy.
And so he knows his stuff.
He does, and okay, so all day,everyone had been up there going
.
If you're not drinking burgundy, you're drinking australian
(25:43):
chardonnay.
Australian chardonnay is upthere with burgundy.
You guys are amazing, just likefull wanking us off.
And then Richard comes up andgoes.
You make some of the bestChardonnay in the world, but and
there was a but he goes.
Anyone is capable of doing itat this level.
He's like you just happen to bedoing it, but anyone is capable
, like anyone producing regioncould make Chardonnay this good.
(26:06):
So what else you got?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
and could make Chardonnay this good.
So what else you got?
Yeah, there was a dumbfoundedsilence, and that's the thing I
loved about the seminar.
These people weren't toofrightened to get up and speak
their minds.
Because this is the problem wedo talk in an echo chamber a lot
.
Yeah, and we're not lookingglobally.
Yes, yes, and our position.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
We needed that global perspective yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, so it was very thought-provoking the whole
thing.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It was the only last thing.
Jeez, we've got Billie justravaging the place.
The only last thing I wanted tobring out was vessel chat.
There was a glass vessel in theroom.
Oh, good question, Did you ask?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
the light strike.
Question no someone else did.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Oh, good question.
Did you ask the light strikequestion?
No, someone else did.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Oh, I thought that was you.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's got a little jacket, okay, so what do we
think of the glass vessel?
What?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
did you think of the wine?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
It looks like a light globe, right, but a really big
light globe.
Yeah, the wine didn't impressme.
No, it looks like a light globe, right, but a really big light
globe.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, the wine didn't impress me.
No, so you're allowed to saythat.
Yeah, place of Changing Winds,is that it Remy?
Yeah, so he's French and he'sthe winemaker.
But he also sells the vessels.
So they are beautiful, but Ithink the take-home message from
that was the fragility of a lotof these, the difficulty of
(27:30):
actually the logistics ofworking with them.
Paul Bridgman talking about hisconcrete tulips that he can't
move around the winery.
Yeah, melchester talking abouther ceramic eggs that just
explode, yeah.
And then the glass ones, whichlooked you could clean them
properly, but yeah, in terms ofutility, yeah, looked you could
(27:53):
clean them properly, but yeah,in terms of um utility, yeah,
what they all?
What?
What are they supposed to do?
Everyone said they knock backfruit.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, so but I don't understand how like well
concrete, you strip them butisn't the point of oak that it
covers up fruit?
So if you're choosing analternative vessel that's not
going to cover up fruit like oak, wouldn't that preserve at?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
least perception of the fruit.
Well, maybe the light globe oneis light strike, so it's
knocking back fruit because weknow that Maybe the ceramics
you're pulling there's alcoholin wine, so you are definitely
pulling something out of theseamphora.
We had an amphora and we madewine in it years ago and it just
tasted like dirty clay.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So yeah, so amphora is like a clay, it looks like a
giant vase and it's like you canuse that instead of an oak
barrel basically, and it's madefrom clay.
Yes, so what.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Are you not a fan?
I still don't think that thatthing answered the question of
what they actually do.
My takeaway from that sessionwas that it adds all of these
different vessels add blendingcomponents that increase the
complexity of the wine.
That's kind of where I landedwith the messaging of it, but no
(29:13):
one was really 100% specific.
Like what would have beeninteresting was to see the same
wine done in.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That's what I wanted.
Yeah, yeah, that's what weneeded.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
The same wine done in all the different places, the
same as when they were talkingabout the Flint the Flint aromas
, with Tracy Siebert from theWine Research Institute, and
David Bicknell was sitting upthere, and I would have loved
for him to pick up the glass andsay this is what I see and this
is what I did to get there.
So it's good having the geekyscience and then have the
(29:43):
practicality of it.
But you know, you live andlearn.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
But yeah, the vessels , hmm.
But you know, you live andlearn.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
But yeah, the vessels .
Hmm, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Well, I think, look, they are the main things I
wanted to discuss.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Was there any other big takeaways for you?
I, yeah, I, it's that globalperspective.
We've got to get outside ourown little bubble and patting
ourselves on the back.
Jeremy Oliver has written whowas invited, so he was a free of
charge guest and he has writtenquite a provocative article
about it, if you want to find it, but I thought it was
(30:17):
interesting.
People were a little bit upsetby it, but I thought well, he's
an opinion leader, you know,have an opinion.
Good on you.
Well, the thing is, Mel, wecan't sit here and be
self-congratulatory and sitthere and say, oh, we're bloody
fantastic and rah, rah, rah.
We need to question constantly,you know, because otherwise you
(30:39):
just become complacent.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'm so glad you're a person of wide narrow value,
like we need someone like youleading this anyway.
So I guess that's all for today.
If you have um questions orcomments or anything about this,
feel free to send them through,although actually this might be
our last record, so we mightnot address them, so maybe no,
we've only got a few to go tillthe end of the year.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I'm going to new zealand in a couple of weeks, so
yeah, we're running out of timeI'll write back.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
People who message the instagram know that I write
back.
You only get me Sometimes.
Sometimes I do, oh no, but theDMs?
Oh yeah, you write.
That's true.
If you comment on stuff, youmight get Meg.
That's where she'll respond.
That's a good point.
I'll do a post and be like whatdo you think?
If you do want to hear from Meg, you've got to do a comment,
(31:27):
not a DM.
All right, we do have one lastthing to cover this week, and
that is we have a message from afriend of the podcast.
She tells me that she was at areally fancy restaurant, like a
very high-class restaurant, andthat there were wine all over
(31:50):
the shelves showcasing thesereally nice bottles, and she had
this to say about it they haveall of their wines stored like
against the walls on likeshelves and it's
floor-to-ceiling height and it'squite like a.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
It's probably like a double-height floor-to-ceiling
height and it's just stacks andstacks of bottles.
It's probably like a doubleheight floor to ceiling height
and it's just stacks and stacksof bottles and surely that can't
be good storage conditions forthe bottles.
So it's quite warm in there.
Like there's no airconditioning.
It wasn't that hot on theweekend.
It was like 22 degrees.
(32:24):
It's not even summer yet, butit was hot and they've got heaps
of natural light coming in.
Um, so it's like, and it's alsobecause it's a very old
building, um, it's these woodenfloors.
So I was just feeling likethere's lots of vibrations as
well from people running aroundand people talking really loudly
and surely that's not good forthese wines.
(32:44):
Like I was looking around andthere's wines there that retail
for like four hundred dollarsplus.
I was not listening to myfriends at all, I was just
looking at all the wines there.
Surely, like I wouldn't feelcomfortable ordering a really
nice bottle there because itwould probably be like damaged
or something.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
You're right, they're not ideal storage conditions.
I'm just wondering if they'rejust the display ones and they
pull them out of the boxes outthe back.
But we recently had someone atwork ring up and they'd bought a
mystery pack of wine that had a2018 Cab Shrez Merlot in it and
they were really disappointedbecause they'd had it at a hotel
(33:27):
and it was by the glass option,and it was absolutely it.
And they were reallydisappointed because they'd had
it at a hotel and it was by theglass option and it was
absolutely disgusting.
And they were so disappointedand they rang up to tell us that
they loved the wine and thatmaybe we should contact the
people that were serving it totell them that they weren't
serving it under the bestconditions.
Wow, so I, yeah, I, always.
So if they are the bottlesthough it's not you wouldn't
(33:49):
order a fancy bottle.
If you saw that I would buysomething that's moving quickly.
Yeah, that's not sitting.
If that's why I'm sitting there, a year, six months, whatever,
not ideal In hot and coldconditions, overnight Melbourne
temperatures.
If it's an old wooden floor andit's an old building, chances
are the insulation's not thatgreat.
Yeah, so it's going to be goingup and down, up and down, up
and down, yeah, yeah, look, winebars, restaurants.
(34:13):
They don't have a lot of spaceand they often don't store wine
under the best conditions.
So I wouldn't be buying a $400bottle of wine, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Okay, well, there you go.
Thank you for sending in thequestion.
That is all for this week.
We're going to be back nextweek.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
We're doing Aldi wines next week we are A little
selection of Aldi wines, becauseCozzy lives, mate, cozzy lives.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
And we'll see you next time.
Enjoy this glass of wine, drinkwell.
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